From owner-glass Fri May 1 07:43:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 1 May 1998 06:51:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: chesco.com!engraving From: "Earl E. Henry" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Scratches in Crysta; Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:50:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May1.55045.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD74E6.9CA4FB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! I do custom hand engraving on crystal and glass and from the softest = materials like ivory to the hardest materials like granite and marble. Today I need to ask "those out there in the know" what would be the best = way to get fine line scratches that appear on crystal from the dust or = fragments of crystal from the process of engraving? I currently use a stencil for the initial layout of designs or = lettering, which is removed and then the finishing touches are put on or = into the object. Upon cleaning up the area I find hair line scratches = here and there and sometimes there are none. If anyone has any input to this subject, I certainly would appreciate = your help. Thank you very much. Earl E. Henry - Custom Engraving & Carving - Member IGGA Honey Brook, PA. 19344 - 610-273-3472 or e-mail @ the following address: = engraving@chesco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD74E6.9CA4FB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello!
I do custom = hand engraving=20 on crystal and glass and from the softest materials like ivory to the = hardest=20 materials like granite and marble.
Today I need = to ask=20 "those out there in the know" what would be the best way to = get fine=20 line scratches that appear on crystal from the dust or fragments of = crystal from=20 the process of engraving?
I currently = use a stencil=20 for the initial layout of designs or lettering, which is removed and = then the=20 finishing touches are put on or into the object.  Upon cleaning up = the area=20 I find hair line scratches here and there and sometimes there = are=20 none.
If anyone has any input to = this subject, I=20 certainly would appreciate your help.  Thank you very = much.
Earl E. Henry - Custom = Engraving &=20 Carving - Member IGGA
Honey Brook, PA. 19344 - = 610-273-3472 or=20 e-mail @ the following address:   engraving@chesco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD74E6.9CA4FB80-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 1 10:09:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 1 May 1998 08:58:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Scratches in Crystal Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 08:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805011514.IAA19695@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Earl, You have hit on a glass carver and engravers nightmare...scratches. Cerium oxide polishing compound and a polishing felt wheel is used by many, but it tends to put in even more scratches. Masking the (non working) area prior to working the design seems to help the best, I use photo resist and sandblast so it's a must for me. It's only my humble opinion, but I do believe one has to be extremely careful threw out the process because dealing with it afterwards is pretty difficult. I have talked to others about it and the feeling is the same. You can find the polishing compound thru a glazing supply store, also the wool felt heads, usually they are such that one puts it on a drill. Caution with cerium oxide avoid prolonged skin contact and breathing the dust. Hope that helps, Cindy > > >Earl had said: >Hello! >I do custom hand engraving on crystal and glass and from the softest = >materials like ivory to the hardest materials like granite and marble. >Today I need to ask "those out there in the know" what would be the best = >way to get fine line scratches that appear on crystal from the dust or = >fragments of crystal from the process of engraving? >I currently use a stencil for the initial layout of designs or = >lettering, which is removed and then the finishing touches are put on or = >into the object. Upon cleaning up the area I find hair line scratches = >here and there and sometimes there are none. >If anyone has any input to this subject, I certainly would appreciate = >your help. Thank you very much. >Earl E. Henry - Custom Engraving & Carving - Member IGGA >Honey Brook, PA. 19344 - 610-273-3472 or e-mail @ the following address: = > engraving@chesco.com > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 1 11:31:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 1 May 1998 09:27:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: EarthCorp.com!BlochStudio From: Susan To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: reinforcement/ st. gl Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 11:58:20 -0400 Message-ID: <199805011555.LAA19581@m5.stny.lrun.com> Precedence: bulk I am working on several large leaded glass panels, divided into sections and set in an aluminum frame. The largest panel is 4'w by 3'h. I am planning to use bent tinned steel bars, following several lead lines- rather than a straight horizontal bar. The panels are going to be shipped a long distance. I am open to suggestion & am wondering if anyone has used any reinforcement methods that they find very successful? Also, has anyone used black mudd (powder form & you mix 2 parts) for cementing windows & do you like it? Thanks, Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 1 11:37:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 1 May 1998 09:08:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: indiana.edu!dfdavis From: donald f davis To: "M. Savad" Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:07:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1998May1.678.0> References: <<1998Apr30.52613.0>> Precedence: bulk Well I guess that is good news/bad news. I haven't had the time to mess with it yet. I hope to this weekend. I do machine work and am used to having a light touch with grinding tool bits. If it hadn't been for all the wonderful things I have seen NorthernLights doing with bevels I might have been able to live without it. Their work really inspires me. Don... On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, M. Savad wrote: > donald f davis wrote: > > > > Tool Related question..... > > Is anyone using one of the home/hobbiest type of beveling machine. I know > > inland and diamond tech makes one. I am interested in making some > > non-standard beveled pieces. > > > > Don..... > > > > ---- > > i have the diamond tech one. for me, it's difficult to use, it tends to > really scratch up the glass. plus the paper sometimes explodes if it > even get's a microtear. though some people have good luck with it. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added > and My Updated Shop Photo's > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 1 14:15:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 1 May 1998 13:45:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Just want to bitch Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 13:28:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May1.62820.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I hope Flight into Fantasy and Gladstar are lurking. I dislike, no I hate the way they wrap their products. Gladstar, it's the sponges you buy to go into the grinder. When you pull the plastic off you loose half the sponge(well I will admit that is an exaggeration)and the thing is small enough to begin with. I have tried wetting it first, to no avail, and besides, I don't think that should be part of the process. And Flight into Fantasy. I love their hummingbirds, but hate the plastsic wraping. The metal is real soft and twice I have pulled the hook off trying to get the hummer free from it. I use exacto knife now to get it free, but inverably either cut myself or scratch the bird. Anybody else suffer this fate? Want to write a protest? What a shame that the packaging makes a good product difficult to use! That's it. Thanks for listening. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 1 16:22:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 1 May 1998 15:44:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly From: Nadine Beth Schneider To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Just want to bitch Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 17:51:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May1.135126.0> References: <<1998May1.62820.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Shirley! Flight into Fantasy packaging has been a thorn in my side for as many years as they have been in business. When I was making alot of them at a time I think it took me longer to get it out of the package than it did to assemble and solder it. I thought there was something wrong with this equation . . .I'll be glad to join a protest! Nadine > I hope Flight into Fantasy and Gladstar are lurking. > I dislike, no I hate the way they wrap their products. Gladstar, it's > > the sponges you buy to go into the grinder. When you pull the plastic > > off you loose half the sponge(well I will admit that is an > exaggeration)and the thing is small enough to begin with. I have > tried > wetting it first, to no avail, and besides, I don't think that should > be > part of the process. > And Flight into Fantasy. I love their hummingbirds, but hate the > plastsic wraping. The metal is real soft and twice I have pulled the > hook off trying to get the hummer free from it. I use exacto knife > now > to get it free, but inverably either cut myself or scratch the bird. > Anybody else suffer this fate? > Want to write a protest? > What a shame that the packaging makes a good product difficult to use! > > That's it. Thanks for listening. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 1 20:00:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:25:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: morn@nac.net Subject: Re: hand tools and ? Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 22:13:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May1.181343.0> References: <<1998Apr30.15719.0>>> Precedence: bulk Mike, I've been using the Ungar brand anti-seize, and while I admit it does smoke the first time I fire the iron up, it subsides after the first minute. I can deal with that. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com > > >i personally never liked putting anti-seize on the iron, it smoked to >much for me (even the heat proof stuff). > >---Mike Savad > >-- _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 1 20:19:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 1 May 1998 19:29:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: DMR74@aol.com Subject: Re: hand tools and ? Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 22:19:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May1.181956.0> References: <<1998Apr30.15719.0>> Precedence: bulk Deb, If you try it on the iron be ware that it is not intended for use to coat an entire large tip such as a Weller iron tip. For that kind of iron you should only use anti-seize on the set screw. On irons with screw on tips like the Ungar you would put it on the tips' screw threads. Of course with any iron it is a good idea to remove the tip and clean out the barrel of the iron after each session. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:07:19 EDT DMR74 writes: >In a message dated 98-04-30 00:45:23 EDT, you write: > >> Someone submitted a tip to our website about using soldering iron >tip >> anti-seize compound on the grinder head shaft and screw to prevent >it >> from seizing up. >> >you just got me in reverse... I put the "anti-seive" (another brand) >on my >grinder but never thought of it for the iron guess I will have to do >that next >deb _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 1 20:39:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 1 May 1998 20:02:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: rr1.net!mkuhn From: "M Kuhn" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:52:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May1.16522.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Folks! I'm new to this site and am looking forward to all the info you offer. I'm a working Mom and do stained glass when I can, (certainly not as often as I would like). I'm in the market for a grinder and was looking in the delphi catalog and decided I could use your advice. What do I really need to look for? What options are most important? My price range is $100 - $150. Thanks for your help! Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 1 22:50:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 1 May 1998 21:57:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: hand tools and ? Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805020456.VAA28953@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > >HI GUYS, JUST BEEN READING SOME POSTS TONIGHT AND CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TROUBLE IS WITH FREEZING SOLDERING IRONS... I'VE BEEN THERE.. REALLY WONDERING, BUT ONCE HEATED UP AND OF COURSE... SHUT OFF, I TAKE MY TRUSTY PLIERS AND GIVE IT A TWIST. NOW I KNOW YOU GUYS MIGHT WONDER WHERE I'M COMING FROM, BUT HONESTLY SOME TIMES IT'S BEEN AWHILE SINCE I'VE LOOSEN THE TIP... 5 YEARS?? :):):) GUESS I'VE BEEN LUCKLY??? PS; GARY, I'VE YEARS AGO RECEIVED AN UGAR LIST SHEET...HOW ARE THEY?? OH, THIS IS JUST AN OPINION PRIOR, SMILES,CINDY >Mike, > >I've been using the Ungar brand anti-seize, and while I admit it does >smoke the first time I fire the iron up, it subsides after the first >minute. I can deal with that. > > >Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > >http://www.dodgestudio.com > > >> >> >>i personally never liked putting anti-seize on the iron, it smoked to >>much for me (even the heat proof stuff). >> >>---Mike Savad >> >>-- > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 04:20:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 04:07:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sat, 2 May 98 07:06:13 -0400 Message-ID: <199805021104.HAA17967@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Mary wrote: > >I'm in the market for a grinder and was looking in the delphi catalog and >decided I could use your advice. > >What do I really need to look for? What options are most important? My >price range is $100 - $150. Mary, I don't know about prices; it's been about 8 years since I've bought my last grinder. Both of them have been Glastars and I've been very happy with them. There was a problem once with the pump assembly, and the folks at Glastar were quite accommodating over the phone and mailed me a new part, free of charge, pronto. Same with their rheostat last year. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 04:50:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 04:17:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: citynet.net!ZorPrime From: Zor Prime To: M Kuhn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 07:17:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May2.01732.0> References: <<1998May1.16522.0>> Organization: Gamma Force Precedence: bulk M Kuhn wrote: > > > I'm in the market for a grinder and was looking in the delphi catalog and > decided I could use your advice. > > What do I really need to look for? What options are most important? My > price range is $100 - $150. > Hi Mary, I've only used Inland's Wizard grinder. I have never had any trouble with mine at all. The second story work surface is an extra but quite handy when grinding small pieces. The 1/4" bit can be used to drill holes, although it takes a while and be careful to keep the bit wet. I believe you can catch them on sale occassionally, but I think they are already at the high end of your price range. Have you checked out Warner-Crivello's prices compared to Delphi's? They are usually much better. Hope this helps, Kathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 05:52:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 04:53:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: "suzy@comcat.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 07:55:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.35520.0> References: <<199805021104.HAA17967@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk Mary, I have been very happy with my Wizard Wiz grinder by Inland. Not the top of the line, but it does the job. Rick http://home.fuse.net/crafts/ suzy@comcat.com wrote: > > Mary wrote: > > > >I'm in the market for a grinder and was looking in the delphi catalog and > >decided I could use your advice. > > > >What do I really need to look for? What options are most important? My > >price range is $100 - $150. > > Mary, I don't know about prices; it's been about 8 years since I've > bought my last grinder. Both of them have been Glastars and I've been > very happy with them. There was a problem once with the pump assembly, > and the folks at Glastar were quite accommodating over the phone and > mailed me a new part, free of charge, pronto. Same with their rheostat > last year. > > Suzanne > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 06:14:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 05:35:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 08:33:47 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980502083343.006ea104@mail.bright.net> Precedence: bulk >I'm in the market for a grinder and was looking in the delphi catalog and >decided I could use your advice. > >What do I really need to look for? What options are most important? My >price range is $100 - $150. Hehe options are optional! The only requirement is that it grind glass! I would say, in my experience of 13 years and 4 grinders, that I like each of them in it's own way for certain things, and there is no one manufacturer that includes all of the nice features on one model. I like the Glastar grinders because they seem (? lasted 13 years) more durable. I like the touch top feature of the Inlands, but it gave out on me very quickly. I like to be able to switch grinder head sizes for different curvatures, but I have done very well with a large grinding head and the 1/4" attachment head. I don't need a little accessories drawer (but some people do) and I have switched back and forth between spongeless and sponge several times thinking each is the best way for a short time until I had problems. The things I don't like, are grinders that spit water out all over my room continually (yes I know some people do the aquarium thing, but I'm a purist. I think there should be some decorum in a grinder!) and basically I think that is a matter of adjusting your water levels. I don't like the grinders that you have to switch parts to go from disk grinder to grinding head (because of too much water spray (Inland I hope you are listening here!!)) And I have a pet peeve about Diamond Tech's new grinding heads that are supposed to be "normal" but continue to chip my glass after 3 huge projects because they are "too" effective. (And no it wasn't the fast bit I was using) But otherwise, I think I would vote for the Diamond Tech's Diamond Max as one of the most versatile grinders I have seen for a while. It needs to have a built in drip system that works, instead of the one that hangs onto the shield and you have to pay extra for, and the place for the sponge to sit down in needs to be wider so that more water can soak up into the sponge, but other than that I love it. (Well maybe I'm getting as cranky as Howard in my old age!) I really think they all have some type of drawbacks in order to get the features that you want. And the best thing to do is to try them out, either at a friend's house, your instructor's place, or at your retailer's in order to get the feel of what you want. Well off my soapbox about grinders now. (Yes Elisabeth I know...if you cut properly you don't need a grinder at all, but then I do foil not lead and I love my grinder!) Garden of Glass Joyce Moran Bellefontaine, OH ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 06:29:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 05:52:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Foiling machines Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:49:46 EDT Message-ID: <1998May2.124946.0> Precedence: bulk Susan sez: > > I also have one of glastars foiling machines. I have > > not been able to get the hang of this thing. Anyone had > > luck with these? Christie replies: > I've had one for 5 years and love it. I can't do without > it. My assistant hates it. Won't use it to save her > life. Just goes to show you different strokes for > different folks! The assistant in question responds: So you're telling on me, huh? :-) Well, Actually, she's exaggerating just a bit... I *have* been known to use it, after a fashion - found it to be useful as a dispenser, but couldn't get the hang of running the glass through the guide slot so the foil would go on evenly. So I'd use the front/bottom of the little grooved wheel, that way I could look over the top of the piece of glass and *see* that the foil was going on straight. What I've been doing for myself is making my own "dispensers" out of those little flat boxes you get CDs in by mail - loading a roll of foil and a piece of cardboard (for a spacer to keep the foil from unwinding in loops) in a one- CD box, threading the end of the foil out under the flap on the box, and rubber-banding the thing together. I've got 4 or 5 of these little boxes rubber-banded together so they stand upright. What the hey, it works and it's portable. (I take work with me when I cover for the owner of another little gift shop across the way from Christie's place. Gives me something to do when things are slow, the owner doesn't mind, and what the hey again, people get curious and go over to Christie's place.) [Here begynneth ye telling upon my selfe department...] ***FINALLY*** yesterday morning I suddenly realized that part of the problem was that I'd been switching out big wheels but not little wheels when I switched foil sizes, so of course things weren't lining up and the foil was getting chewed up! Things went much better after that... So... Yesterday afternoon I announced that I wanted to buy one... And the shriek of laughter from the back corner of the shop was probably heard for miles... And I am now the proud owner of said Glastar foiler... [here endyth ye telling upon my selfe department...] Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 07:05:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:12:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Bio# 17 Diane Manchester Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:13:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May2.3139.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD75A2.24E0B5A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Name: Diane Manchester Location: Delray Beach, Florida Daytime Job-Work part-time for Drug Abuse Foundation - helping test = new updates for the Medical records program used by the foundation.=20 Other Part-Time Job: Sunrise Stained Glass (studio in Boca Raton, FL) ther: Full time mom to a 3-1/2year old daughter ("Julia"), who knows = all the lingo for stained glass, and even colors her pictures in = "stained glass" colors=20 Marital Status: Married almost 6 years (whew...where did that time = go???!!) Companion animals: 1 golden retriever; 1 horse (and 1 husband :>) Background: Born in San Francisco, CA and lived in Los Gatos CA until I was 19. I = was raised in a family of 6 (I have 3 older brothers), and my father was = the owner of a picture framing store. Our family is very artistic (we = got the art, not the music), except for me. I can't draw worth a bean, = but I can translate any object or splash of color into glass. I thank = God for this gift and passion for glass. After graduating from high = school, it was time to explore the world, and I moved to Florida to live = with my mother. (Still here.....) I have a degree in Special = Education, and a career in the corporate world. My interests are as = varied as the colors in the rainbow. I love art and color as much as I = enjoy computers and horseback riding, and I make time for them all. My husband and are looking to move to the Charlotte, NC area, and we are = selling our townhouse in South Florida (that's a free plug....sorry, = couldn't resist.) I am also very involved with our church, and I hope = that all find time to nurture and grow their spiritual sense........ Glass: A boyfriend in high school turned me on to the wonders of stained glass = (that was back in 1975). I made my first small piece in his studio in = Ketchum (Sun Valley), Idaho. Then, my brother gave me his soldering = gun, and the rest is history. My garage is currently set up as my studio. I started a home-based = business in 1985 as "Tiffany Styled Originals", and have done art shows, = renaissance fairs, home parties, and gallery commissions since I = started. I helped pay my way through college doing stained glass in my = dorm room.......and I continue to thrive on the wonders of glass. I do = not get tired of it, but I have found that I enjoy my own creating, as = opposed to contracting my services with a stained glass shop. Glass has = been a part of my life for just about 20 years now, and I have yet to = tire of it, in fact, I love it more now that ever.....gee, kind of like = marriage! ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD75A2.24E0B5A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  Name:  Diane Manchester
 
  Location:  Delray Beach, Florida
 
  Daytime Job-Work part-time for Drug Abuse Foundation - = helping test=20 new updates for the Medical records program used by the foundation. =
 
Other Part-Time Job: Sunrise Stained Glass (studio in Boca Raton, = FL)

ther:  Full time mom to a 3-1/2year old daughter=20 ("Julia"), who knows all the lingo for stained glass, and even = colors=20 her pictures in "stained
glass" colors

Marital Status:  Married almost 6 years (whew...where did = that=20 time go???!!)
 
Companion animals: 1 golden retriever; 1 horse (and 1 husband=20 :>)

Background:

Born in San Francisco, CA and lived in = Los=20 Gatos CA until I was 19.  I was raised in a family of 6 (I have 3 = older=20 brothers), and my father was the owner of a picture framing store.  = Our=20 family is very artistic (we got the art, not the music), except for = me.  I=20 can't draw worth a bean, but I can translate any object or splash of = color into=20 glass.  I thank God for this gift and passion for glass. After = graduating=20 from high school, it was time to explore the world, and I moved to = Florida to=20 live with my mother.  (Still here.....)  I have a degree in = Special=20 Education, and a career in the corporate world.  My interests are = as varied=20 as the colors in the rainbow.  I love art and color as much as I = enjoy=20 computers and horseback riding, and I make time for them all.

My = husband=20 and are looking to move to the Charlotte, NC area, and we are selling = our=20 townhouse in South Florida (that's a free plug....sorry, couldn't = resist.) =20 I am also very involved with our church, and I hope that all find time = to=20 nurture and grow their spiritual sense........

Glass:

A = boyfriend=20 in high school turned me on to the wonders of stained glass (that was = back in=20 1975).  I made my first small piece in his studio in Ketchum (Sun = Valley),=20 Idaho.  Then, my brother gave me his soldering gun, and the rest is = history.

My garage is currently set up as my studio.  I = started a=20 home-based business in 1985 as "Tiffany Styled Originals", and = have=20 done art shows, renaissance fairs, home parties, and gallery commissions = since I=20 started.  I helped pay my way through college doing stained glass = in my=20 dorm room.......and I continue to thrive on the wonders of glass.  = I do not=20 get tired of it, but I have found that I enjoy my own creating, as = opposed to=20 contracting my services with a stained glass shop.  Glass has been = a part=20 of my life for just about 20 years now, and I have yet to tire of it, in = fact, I=20 love it more now that ever.....gee, kind of like marriage!
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD75A2.24E0B5A0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 07:25:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:18:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Bio# 16 Suzanne Albright Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:20:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May2.3202.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BD75A3.1A822DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Suzanne: I didn't discover glass until I was 46.=20 The previous owner of our house in SE Penna. had installed some old = leaded church windows and reluctantly left them when he moved; they were = probably working on my subconscious for years. I was getting weary of running a typesetting business after 20 years;=20 being a slave to the customers; always rushing, deadline after deadline. = =20 I had spent my life chasing perfection, making sure the artists' work=20 looked beautiful and was spelled right. Brought up in a family that worshipped art and music, I felt it was time = to do something creative for myself. My mother painted lovely = watercolors and had lived her life for it. I thought I had no artistic = talent, that God had forgotten me when he was handing out the = "creativity." I can't draw, I tried! It was childish. What to do? Took a class at a local shop. The night I returned with my first piece = in=20 hand, a very-badly-soldered daffodil panel, I fell in love. Hard. With a = vengeance. With an intensity I'm sure you all can remember. Since then the typesetting business has gone south - computers changed = all that, fast. I don't miss it at all. We are getting by on one income, = thanks to my understanding and loving husband. I work at my own pace. I = don't have the money I was used to, but wouldn't trade this freedom for = all the tea in China. It's fun watching my students blossom with that same love. It's fun=20 making a window for somebody and knowing they will enjoy it. It's even = fun making small things and selling them at craft fairs. (I love how = children stop at my table and their eyes light with the sparkle of=20 glass.) And best of all, it's fun to know I *can* be creative, after = all. Suzanne ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BD75A3.1A822DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Suzanne:
 

I didn't discover glass until I was 46.

The previous = owner of=20 our house in SE Penna. had installed some old leaded church windows and=20 reluctantly left them when he moved; they were probably working on my=20 subconscious for years.

I was getting weary of running a = typesetting=20 business after 20 years;
being a slave to the customers; always = rushing,=20 deadline after deadline. 
 
I had spent my life chasing perfection, making sure the = artists'=20 work
looked beautiful and was spelled right.

Brought up in a = family=20 that worshipped art and music, I felt it was time
to do something = creative=20 for myself. My mother painted lovely watercolors and had lived her life = for it.=20 I thought I had no artistic talent, that God had forgotten me when he = was=20 handing out the "creativity." I can't draw, I tried! It was = childish.=20 What to do?

Took a class at a local shop. The night I returned = with my=20 first piece in
hand, a very-badly-soldered daffodil panel, I fell in = love.=20 Hard. With a
vengeance. With an intensity I'm sure you all can=20 remember.

Since then the typesetting business has gone south - = computers=20 changed all that, fast. I don't miss it at all. We are getting by on one = income,=20
thanks to my understanding and loving husband. I work at my own = pace. I=20 don't have the money I was used to, but wouldn't trade this freedom for = all the=20 tea in China.

It's fun watching my students blossom with that = same love.=20 It's fun
making a window for somebody and knowing they will enjoy = it. It's=20 even fun making small things and selling them at craft fairs. (I love = how=20 children stop at my table and their eyes light with the sparkle of =
glass.)=20 And best of all, it's fun to know I *can* be creative, after all.
 
Suzanne
------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BD75A3.1A822DE0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 07:50:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:44:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!artglass From: "Dianne G. Maddison" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: grinder and foiler Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 08:38:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May2.33856.0> Organization: The Ivory Express Precedence: bulk Hi All, Just a quick comment on which is the best grinder. I'm sure they are all great but, I do love my Glastar. I have had 3 different sizes in the last 17 years and they have been most reliable. I have a Glastar foiler also and it cuts my foiling time in half. I foiled by hand for a few years and finally got used to the Glaster and now I can't live without it. Have a great day, Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 08:11:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 06:39:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover From: "Laurean E. Clover" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy?] Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 08:36:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May2.13627.0> Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <354B3D5A.3DE2@rconnect.com> Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 08:35:54 -0700 From: "Laurean E. Clover" Reply-To: vlclover@rconnect.com Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: glasschic Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? References: <3.0.32.19980502083343.006ea104@mail.bright.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a glastar G-4. Don't know how old it is, because I got it used 4 years ago. I am just ending the use of and inland bit on it. I am unhappy with this bit right now because it is chipping my glass. I am getting a fine bit this time, i think the last one was a speed bit. Laurean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 08:44:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 07:51:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: SusieHUs To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 10:47:56 EDT Message-ID: <1998May2.144756.0> Precedence: bulk I've got the Diamond Max and I really like it a lot. But since it's the only grinder I've ever had, I have nothing to compare it to! I did the same thing you're doing when I was looking to buy one -- I asked everyone here. And that's how I ended up with the Diamond Max. Susie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 10:20:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 09:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: un-biased choices of grinders Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:06:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May2.2621.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BD75A9.93309780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a 18+ year old glasstar........used by students and also used for = a "loaner" I have a 15+ year old wizard used in my shop daily. They both still run well. I would buy for price and (minimal) accessories............... I can match and or go below most grinder prices. Get a price and let me = know before buying. Sorry (not really) for the plug.........enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BD75A9.93309780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have a = 18+ year old=20 glasstar........used by students and also used for a=20 "loaner"
I have a 15+ year old wizard used in = my shop=20 daily.
 
They both still run = well.
 
I would buy for price and = (minimal)=20 accessories...............
 
I can match and or go = below most=20 grinder prices. Get a price and let me know before buying.
 
Sorry (not really) for the = plug.........enjoy, H

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs= /howard
enmeshed=20 in the internet
trapped in the world wide=20 web
 
------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BD75A9.93309780-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 10:50:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 10:01:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: M Kuhn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:00:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.900.0> References: <<1998May1.16522.0>> Precedence: bulk M Kuhn wrote: > > Hi Folks! > I'm new to this site and am looking forward to all the info you offer. > > I'm a working Mom and do stained glass when I can, (certainly not as often > as I would like). > > I'm in the market for a grinder and was looking in the delphi catalog and > decided I could use your advice. > > What do I really need to look for? What options are most important? My > price range is $100 - $150. > > Thanks for your help! > > Mary > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i personally like inland grinders. but you'll probably be hearing the same things with glasstar. i don't have any glasstar products so i can't compare too many strengths. glasstar has a neat built in draw for stuff, they also have a nice splash guard that's flexible. inland has lasted me for a long time, at least 5-8 years combined total usage. inland also has the pop-top version, which makes it very easy to clean. however don't use the auto touch top, the switch can get gummed up and short out. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 11:07:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 10:03:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: dodgestudio@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: hand tools and ? Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 12:56:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.85631.0> References: <<1998Apr30.15719.0>>> Precedence: bulk dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: > > Mike, > > I've been using the Ungar brand anti-seize, and while I admit it does > smoke the first time I fire the iron up, it subsides after the first > minute. I can deal with that. > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > > http://www.dodgestudio.com > > > > > > >i personally never liked putting anti-seize on the iron, it smoked to > >much for me (even the heat proof stuff). > > > >---Mike Savad > > > >-- > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] oh ok, primarily i use the unger iron with the screw in heater unit. i never have to worry about seizing, just over tightening. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 11:27:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 10:28:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:26:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.92650.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Mary Kuhn" >What do I really need to look for? What options are most important?< I like a larger work surface. So I don't go for the cheapest models anymore. I also like to have a grinder with more "umpf", so I get the ones with more horsepower and higher RMPs. As to manufacturer, I've only used Inland, so can't give you an opinion. I really, really do like the larger work surfaces though. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 11:50:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 10:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Follow Up Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:39:12 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980502133912.006b591c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Precedence: bulk Hi Gang, A while back I submitted a post about a problem that I was having with my soldering.... while trying to solder a panel I kept running into a problem with the solder dragging badly... (no zinc on the piece). The solder was terrible, I tried everything.... disconnecting the rheostat, a different iron, new solder, flux..... and all the suggestions posted here. Nothing helped, and I ruined the panel. Anyway.... yesterday I had a electrician here on an unrelated project and just for kicks I asked him to check the outlet....... he could not find a specific problem but did find a little corrosion on the wires. He changed the outlet and.............. I can solder fine now, even with the rheostat. What do you know !! All of you were so helpful I thought I would let you know that I have (finally) resolved the problem. Have a good weekend...... Barbara Snell bjs10@cornell.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 15:07:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 13:41:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: test Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:42:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May2.6427.0> Precedence: bulk Did the "un-biased" post go through. I also got headings for bio 16 and 17 but no text...is it me or? weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 15:40:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 13:46:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re-post on grinders Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:46:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May2.64655.0> Precedence: bulk I have a 18+ year old glasstar........used by students and also used for a "loaner" I have a 15+ year old wizard used in my shop daily. They both still run well. I would buy for price and size and (minimal) accessories............... I can match and or go below most grinder prices. Get a price and let me know before buying. Sorry (not really) for the plug.........enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 16:29:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:32:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: k12s.phast.umass.edu!wmagdycz From: Elaine To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 18:32:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May2.113254.0> References: <<1998May2.92650.0>> Precedence: bulk Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > > Message text written by "Mary Kuhn" > >What do I really need to look for? What options are most important?< > > I like a larger work surface. So I don't go for the cheapest models > anymore. I also like to have a grinder with more "umpf", so I get > the ones with more horsepower and higher RMPs. As to manufacturer, > I've only used Inland, so can't give you an opinion. I really, really > do like the larger work surfaces though. > > Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles > 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 > ---- I have both. The Inland Wiz pooped out as soon as I started using it a lot. I like my Glastar All Star much better. It cost more, but has more - really large work surface, supposed to be commercial duty, and I like the water pump to the second stage work surface. Beats replacing the sponges. I also like being able to drain the water from the bottom without having to carry it anywhere. Have fun with your decision. Elaine > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 16:55:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:32:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: k12s.phast.umass.edu!wmagdycz From: Elaine To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: test Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 18:34:12 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May2.113412.0> References: <<1998May2.6427.0>> Precedence: bulk Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > > Did the "un-biased" post go through. > I also got headings for bio 16 and 17 but no text...is it me or? > > weaver51@teleport.com > http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard > enmeshed in the internet > trapped in the world wide web > I didn't get any text either. I thought it was my PC. Guess not. Elaine > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 17:16:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:49:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:46:33 +0000 Message-ID: <199805022246.XAA14178@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk It's OK Petal, I WILL forgive you...... (thousands wouldn't!!) Would you believe it I myself have a Wizard bought about 20 years ago. Still going strong, when I last used it. My students are arriving at class with "dinky" little GlasStar grinders. Then they ask me to show them how to use them (one of them couldn't even find the on/off button). It was when they pushed the glass-pieces against the grinder, with the sharp shards still attached to the pieces (i.e. they hadn't even bothered to use the grozier pliers) that I got a bit up-tight. 1. What was this piece of shard doing on the glass piece in the first place? (Sloppy cutting!) 2. Once there, why not remove IT with the grozier, rather than risking removing their fingers? Ahh well (sigh!) Take care now Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Well off my soapbox about grinders now. (Yes Elisabeth I know...if you cut properly you don't need a grinder at all, but then I do foil not lead and I love my grinder!) Garden of Glass Joyce Moran Bellefontaine, OH ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 17:57:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 15:59:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: yahoo.com!sheila_oh From: Sheila To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: test Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998May2.8581.0> Precedence: bulk I too got those bios with no text to them....thought it was just me.....also the un-biased came thru with no text here.......Have no idea why? Just my two cents worth..... Still lurking in Ohio Sheila _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 18:25:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 16:38:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim To: weaver51@teleport.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: test Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:35:09 EDT Message-ID: <1998May2.23359.0> Precedence: bulk Howard, Yes, the text for "unbiased" came thru just fine, as did all of the other e- mail listed in the "subject" line. Looks like you have a problem. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 19:11:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:02:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grinders: shocking Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805030000.RAA08504@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > > >> >Mike said: > the switch can get gummed up and short out. >Hi Mike, My grinder was been shocking me for awhile, seems to be bad when my hands are wet and go to touch it. Hmmm, can I fix this problem? Thanks in advance, Cindy > > >-- > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 19:31:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:02:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: thanks Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:03:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May2.1030.0> Precedence: bulk No more acknowledgements for the test post...It came through fine. Missed both 16 and 17 on the bios and that prompted me to "test". Again, thanks weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 19:50:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:31:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: "glass@bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: test Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:30:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.16309.0> References: <<1998May2.6427.0>> Precedence: bulk Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > > Did the "un-biased" post go through. > I also got headings for bio 16 and 17 but no text...is it me or? > > weaver51@teleport.com > http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard > enmeshed in the internet > trapped in the world wide web > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass you did'nt see it either, i thought it was just me, since i just had to re-install everything on the computer. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 19:54:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:42:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Today's Bios Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:45:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May2.14458.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BD7602.CFB500C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmmmmmm. Seems like gremlins in the systems again. I'll repost and try = again. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BD7602.CFB500C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hmmmmmm. Seems like gremlins in the = systems=20 again. I'll repost and try again.
 
 
Patrick
Roses and = Rainbows
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BD7602.CFB500C0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 20:10:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:21:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805030019.RAA28660@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Mary, And welcome to this site of very helpful info... and the people are very nice too! Chuckle. Can I just mention on the news of grinders, I bought a second one afew years ago thought I'd go for a big and better. Hmmm, I bought a lighted Wizard and what a silly thing it is. Once the water reservoir gets a little pasty the light doesn't work worth beans. Wonder if Inland still makes them, hope not, but if they do, you really don't need it. Smiles, Cindy And have fun shopping! PS, it gets me little shocks now too, must be that darn light!!!! > >Hi Folks! >I'm new to this site and am looking forward to all the info you offer. > >I'm a working Mom and do stained glass when I can, (certainly not as often >as I would like). > >I'm in the market for a grinder and was looking in the delphi catalog and >decided I could use your advice. > >What do I really need to look for? What options are most important? My >price range is $100 - $150. > >Thanks for your help! > >Mary >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 20:17:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:50:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: Kris To: Howard and Elaine Rubin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: test Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:35:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.16357.0> References: <<1998May2.6427.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Got the "un-biased" but no text for bio 16 + 17 either. It seems like I remember a couple other blank ones too. Maybe it's a technical problem with the mailing list? Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > > Did the "un-biased" post go through. > I also got headings for bio 16 and 17 but no text...is it me or? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 20:27:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:09:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Harley Pattern Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:10:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May2.151036.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01BD7606.5EE83700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Somebody recently posted that they had made a pattern for a Harley. They = used mirrors for the chrome. That is as much as I can remember (must be = a brain cramp, it can't be old age). Would the poster please contact me = I'd like a copy of the pattern. I read this post and immediately had a = flashback to my younger days and more dangerous life style. You could = always tell when I was happy by the bug stains on my teeth. Ahhh yes, = now the wind just blows through my scalp. TIA Patrick Roses and Rainbows ------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01BD7606.5EE83700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Somebody recently posted that they = had made a=20 pattern for a Harley. They used mirrors for the chrome. That is as much = as I can=20 remember (must be a brain cramp, it can't be old age). Would the poster = please=20 contact me I'd like a copy of the pattern. I read this post and = immediately had=20 a flashback to my younger days and more dangerous life style. You could = always=20 tell when I was happy by the bug stains on my teeth. Ahhh yes, now the = wind just=20 blows through my scalp.
 
TIA
Patrick
Roses and = Rainbows
------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01BD7606.5EE83700-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 20:58:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 18:27:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lasercom.net!jean From: "Jean" To: "Sheila" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: test Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:27:44 -0700 Message-ID: <199805030122.SAA27942@intergate.lasercom.net> Precedence: bulk We have been through this before, several times. The problem is we all have different e-mail programs. They do NOT all read the same. Many do not handle multi-part messages in MIME format. They either appear blank, or (as in my case) they jam or crash the machine! Most lists advise against listers sending multi-part messages in MIME format for that reason. But those of us who have the problem are in the minority so guess it's up to us to change our programs-- or deal with it. I have learned I can go to my MAILCITY, or HOTMAIL e-mail accounts, pull up my POP mail, and that clears the problem. It still shows no message, but when I click on forward message THEN it all appears (as if by magic). There are a couple of great computer-wise people on the list who can probably explain it much better than I. Jean ---------- > From: Sheila > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: test > Date: Saturday, May 02, 1998 3:58 PM > > I too got those bios with no text to them....thought it was just > me.....also the un-biased came thru with no text here.......Have no > idea why? Just my two cents worth..... > > Still lurking in Ohio > Sheila > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 21:50:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:29:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinders: shocking Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 22:28:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.182837.0> References: <<199805030000.RAA08504@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk Cindy Pesonen wrote: > > > > > > >> > >Mike said: > > the switch can get gummed up and short out. > >Hi Mike, > My grinder was been shocking me for awhile, seems to be bad when my hands > are wet and go to touch it. Hmmm, can I fix this problem? > Thanks in advance, Cindy > > > > > >-- > > > >---- i would have someone look at it, it sounds like the water made a solid contact with the switch. unplug it, and have an electrician look at it. the switch should probably be replaced. after all you don't want to electrocute yourself... also it would'nt hurt to plug it into a GFCI (Ground Fault Circut Interupter), it prevents you from getting fried. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 22:14:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 19:30:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!HUSKYGATOR From: HUSKYGATOR To: toby@northlights.co.uk, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:28:59 EDT Message-ID: <1998May3.22859.0> Precedence: bulk mary, I have a Diamond Tech! This machine does it all! My husband bought it for me for my birthday four years ago. It is a combimation flat disk grinder for striaght edges and a router style grinder for curved edges. The bit and disk run simultaneouly--so you don't waste time switching back and forth.It has a powerful, high torgue 1/9 hp motor You can accurately grind a 30, 45,or 90 degree edge if you have the reversible beveling block. I think it was well worth the money, and I spent months trying to figure out the best one. Good luck, I think it is a personal choice. linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 22:35:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:08:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:45:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.184527.0> References: <<1998May2.92650.0>> Precedence: bulk Guess I'll put in my $.02 worth. I've only had experience with Glastar and Inland. Of the two, I worked with my first Glastar machine for 10 or twelve years before selling it used to trade up to the Glastar All Star model. Also have a little tiny Glastar with only a 5/8" head that's still going strong after surely over 10 years. As for the Inland machine, it was the twin spin. Promised all kinds of versatility, but the stage was poorly supported and tended press down in the middle while grinding, causing it to catch the edges of my glass when I tried to grind. THe built in disk grinder was worhtless. It chipped the heck out of any glass I tried to use it on and ruined it totally, and the water feed mechanism for the disk grinder part was very poor. It took up space in the studio for a couple of months, then I sold it cheap to get rid of it. The regular Inland machines may be better, but I have never owned one. Also, unless things have changed or I'm just plain mistaken, for years it has been my understanding that the Glastar was UL approved and the Inland machines were not. If I'm going to stick my hands into water on an electric appliance, I'd like to know that someone's checked it out. Feel free to toast me if I'm wrong about this one. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 22:54:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: cpesonen@bcinternet.net Subject: Re: hand tools and ? Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:02:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.19210.0> References: <<199805020456.VAA28953@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk Cindy, I don't care that much for the Ungar irons personally, but they are pretty high output for their weight and I can see how that can be appealing. Also the modular construction is a nice touch. You can install a new heating element as easily as changing a light bulb. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Fri, 1 May 1998 21:56:06 -0700 (PDT) cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) writes: >> >>HI GUYS, >JUST BEEN READING SOME POSTS TONIGHT AND CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE >TROUBLE >IS WITH FREEZING SOLDERING IRONS... I'VE BEEN THERE.. REALLY >WONDERING, BUT >ONCE HEATED UP AND OF COURSE... SHUT OFF, I TAKE MY TRUSTY PLIERS AND >GIVE >IT A TWIST. NOW I KNOW YOU GUYS MIGHT WONDER WHERE I'M COMING FROM, >BUT >HONESTLY SOME TIMES IT'S BEEN AWHILE SINCE I'VE LOOSEN THE TIP... 5 >YEARS?? >:):):) >GUESS I'VE BEEN LUCKLY??? >PS; GARY, I'VE YEARS AGO RECEIVED AN UGAR LIST SHEET...HOW ARE THEY?? >OH, THIS IS JUST AN OPINION PRIOR, SMILES,CINDY _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 23:01:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:39:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: snet.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: "'glass list'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD7623.1E81D500" Subject: Air Brush Responses Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:35:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.193545.0> Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7623.1E81D500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Folks, I would like to say Thank you to everyone who responded to helping me on my seach for an Air Brush supplier. Thanks again, Tim Byrnes ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7623.1E81D500 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhgDAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADACAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGUAAAAAAAAAtTvCwCx3EBqhvAgA KypWwhUAAAAua3jrobvPEZ/kREVTVAAAZIMAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNz ICBsaXN0AFNNVFAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEA AAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAAA4AAAAnZ2xhc3Mg IGxpc3QnAAAAAgELMAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpHTEFTU0BCVU5HSS5DT00AAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6 AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAIKNgEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEI AQSAAQAUAAAAQWlyIEJydXNoIFJlc3BvbnNlcwAiBwEFgAMADgAAAM4HBQACABcAIwAtAAYASQEB IIADAA4AAADOBwUAAgAXABoABQAGABgBAQmAAQAhAAAAOUFBNEMzMEQwRUUyRDExMTlGRTg0NDQ1 NTM1NDAwMDAA+gYBA5AGAIQCAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABA ADkAYOZMjkR2vQEeAHAAAQAAABQAAABBaXIgQnJ1c2ggUmVzcG9uc2VzAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9 dkSOQw3DpJziDhHRn+hERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAARAAAAdGJ5 cm5lc0BzbmV0Lm5ldAAAAAADAAYQdE0VUgMABxBzAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASElGT0xLUyxJV09V TERMSUtFVE9TQVlUSEFOS1lPVVRPRVZFUllPTkVXSE9SRVNQT05ERURUT0hFTFBJTkdNRU9OTVlT RUFDSEZPUkFOQUlSQlJVU0hTVVBQTElFUlRIQU5LUwAAAAACAQkQAQAAABQBAAAQAQAAmwEAAExa RnVelPRl/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0C gzP3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2QKABwqBDbELYG5nMTAzLxRQCwoUUQvxIBlRSGnEIEYG8GtzLAqFCoUR GVBJIHcIYGxkIABsaWtlIHRvICBzYXkgVBGAbmvMIHkIYBviZXYEkBzAMm4b0HdoHAAWEHNwDwIg DbAbgBvxaGVscOkLgGcgB4AgAiAfQBxAcxGwANBoIAIQBcADkUFCaQXAQnJ1cyAgc+x1cAtQCJEu Gi4ZURxj6QQgYWcLcSwahiJaIuJ7B3Ag4HkEoAeQCoUVMQABJqADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAH MGCU+TRDdr0BQAAIMGCU+TRDdr0BHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAMCa ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7623.1E81D500-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 2 23:17:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 20:15:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: glasstreasures.com!sgt From: Stephanie Hansen To: "Pat Kelly" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Today's Bios Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 22:12:07 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980502221207.008038e0@glasstreasures.com> References: <<1998May2.14458.0>> Precedence: bulk The problem seems to be that the bios were posted in HTML format...while my e-mail reader (Eudora) won't read HTML, it at least converts it to somewhat readable format and I can tell that it was originally in HTML. I know lots of other newsreaders that can't read HTML just show blankness. The below message by Pat (if it doesn't re-convert) was also in HTML, so many of you won't have seen it, either, but might see it now if it doesn't re-convert. (And that's why I'm leaving the whole thing, in case it can be read now.) Anyway, my point is, to everyone - please don't send messages in HTML because obviously not everyone can read HTML messages! Steph ~ At 07:45 PM 5/2/98 -0500, Pat Kelly wrote: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BD7602.CFB500C0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Hmmmmmm. Seems like gremlins in the systems again. I'll repost and try = >again. > > >Patrick >Roses and Rainbows > >------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BD7602.CFB500C0 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > >
Hmmmmmm. Seems like gremlins in the = >systems=20 >again. I'll repost and try again.
>
 
>
 
>
Patrick
>
Roses and = >Rainbows
> >------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BD7602.CFB500C0-- > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 00:16:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 21:50:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: Kris To: Pat Kelly Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Today's Bios Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 23:05:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.19535.0> References: <<1998May2.14458.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Got this with no text too Pat Kelly wrote: ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 00:38:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 21:50:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: Kris To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinders: shocking Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 23:03:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May2.1939.0> References: <<199805030000.RAA08504@ns2.vphos.net>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Don't you hate that? Grrrrr! I had the same problem, tracked it down to the switch which I had gotten wet. I have an Inland with the switch on the lower right side. Now I keep a towell over the switch (keeps it dry) and touch the switch through the towell being careful not to touch the grinder with my other hand at the same time. I also stopped standing on the concrete in bare feet at hubby's suggestion. Wear shoes or stand on a piece of carpet (make yourself a poor conductor to the ground). All of this may not be necessary but I haven't been shocked since. I have a feeling keeping the switch dry is most important. Of course check your grinder for wiring problems and such, and be sure your electric outlet is properly grounded. Good luck! Kris > >Mike said: > > the switch can get gummed up and short out. > >Hi Mike, > My grinder was been shocking me for awhile, seems to be bad when my hands > are wet and go to touch it. Hmmm, can I fix this problem? > Thanks in advance, Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 01:26:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 22:54:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: yahoo.com!jeanor_ak From: Jean To: Pat Kelly , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Harley Pattern Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998May2.155319.0> Precedence: bulk Still receiving blanks - what's happening? I am returning this to you (I wonder if there is anything on it when you get it back?) Jean ---Pat Kelly wrote: _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 02:02:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 23:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Elaine Subject: Grinders: Glastar pump Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 07:03:11 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May3.8311.0> References: <<1998May2.113254.0@?>> Precedence: bulk In message <1998May2.113254.0@?>, Elaine writes ............ >> ---- >I have both [grinders]. The Inland Wiz pooped out as soon as I started using it a >lot. I like my Glastar All Star much better. It cost more, but has more >- really large work surface, supposed to be commercial duty, and I like >the water pump to the second stage work surface. ......... Elaine > The above prompts me to ask if any of have had problems with the pump on the Glastar? It seems to have stopped. Cleaning the passage from the circulating pump to the bottom of the vertical channel doesn't seem to have helped. The vertical channel is clear. Any suggestions on getting the pump to push water to the second story again? Thanks is advance. Steve -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 02:21:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 23:20:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lasercom.net!jean From: "Jean" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: blanks/jams/crash Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:18:18 -0700 Message-ID: <199805030612.XAA09831@intergate.lasercom.net> Precedence: bulk Multi-part MIME format messages are NOT retrievable by all of our mail programs. Some of us receive blanks, some have their mail jammed. Others crash! It is not coincidental that so many received blank e-mail. Several of us have crashed too. Multi-part MIME format messages should not be sent to a list. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 02:34:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 2 May 1998 23:28:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Harley Pattern Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 02:27:12 EDT Message-ID: <1998May3.62712.0> Precedence: bulk I would love to have a copy of this Harley pattern tooo On the subject of stones I am looking for something smoother then Quickcrete Morter.. We have cold winters here in Arkasas and i dont know if grout would hold up. I am using the mold method. :PS. Dimondcrete is to expensive The Puzz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 04:45:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 01:34:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: k12s.phast.umass.edu!wmagdycz From: Elaine To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinders: Glastar pump Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 04:35:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May2.21350.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > In message <1998May2.113254.0@?>, Elaine > writes > ............ > >> ---- > >I have both [grinders]. The Inland Wiz pooped out as soon as I started > using it a > >lot. I like my Glastar All Star much better. It cost more, but has more > >- really large work surface, supposed to be commercial duty, and I like > >the water pump to the second stage work surface. > ......... > Elaine > > > > The above prompts me to ask if any of have had problems with the pump on > the Glastar? It seems to have stopped. Cleaning the passage from the > circulating pump to the bottom of the vertical channel doesn't seem to > have helped. The vertical channel is clear. > Any suggestions on getting the pump to push water to the second story > again? > Thanks is advance. > Steve > > -- > Steve Richard > Verrier Art Glass Ltd > s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk Try calling the company. They are really nice people to work with. I haven't had a problem with mine so far. Just make sure you keep the water level high enough. It will stop pumping or won't pump enough if you let the water level get too low. Elaine ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 05:48:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 02:33:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: k12s.phast.umass.edu!wmagdycz From: Elaine To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinders: Glastar pump Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 05:34:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May2.223454.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > In message <1998May2.113254.0@?>, Elaine > writes > ............ > >> ---- > >I have both [grinders]. The Inland Wiz pooped out as soon as I started > using it a > >lot. I like my Glastar All Star much better. It cost more, but has more > >- really large work surface, supposed to be commercial duty, and I like > >the water pump to the second stage work surface. > ......... > Elaine > > > > The above prompts me to ask if any of have had problems with the pump on > the Glastar? It seems to have stopped. Cleaning the passage from the > circulating pump to the bottom of the vertical channel doesn't seem to > have helped. The vertical channel is clear. > Any suggestions on getting the pump to push water to the second story > again? > Thanks is advance. > Steve > > -- > Steve Richard > Verrier Art Glass Ltd > s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk Steve, I should also mention that if you procrastinate on cleaning the water, there is a tendency for the glass residue to build up under the impeller, which will cause the impeller to raise up and not be able to pump water. If this is what is causing your problem: If you lift the impeller and force water into that section under the impeller to clean out the glass residue, then reseat the impeller it should work just fine - that is, if this is what is causing your problem. I had a tendency to grind "just one more thing" about a dozen times. I don't do that anymore. Hope I explained this right. Elaine ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 06:55:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 03:56:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: weaver51@teleport.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: test Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 06:56:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May3.25640.0> References: <<1998May2.6427.0>> Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > Did the "un-biased" post go through. > I also got headings for bio 16 and 17 but no text...is it me or? It's not you. Same thing happened to me. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 08:43:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 06:08:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Today's Bios Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:07:42 EDT Message-ID: <1998May3.13742.0> Precedence: bulk > please don't send messages in HTML because obviously not > everyone can read HTML messages! > > Steph ~ OTOH, some of us get those HTML messages "double" - the beginning of the message is straight text, followed by the same thing with all the formatting gobbledygook codes interspersed as the second part of the same message... We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. Sparks still using AOL 2.7 because 3.x crashes my system ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 13:51:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 06:08:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Today's Bios Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:07:42 EDT Message-ID: <1998May3.13742.0> Precedence: bulk > please don't send messages in HTML because obviously not > everyone can read HTML messages! > > Steph ~ OTOH, some of us get those HTML messages "double" - the beginning of the message is straight text, followed by the same thing with all the formatting gobbledygook codes interspersed as the second part of the same message... We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. Sparks still using AOL 2.7 because 3.x crashes my system ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 14:10:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 06:09:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: Lead free solder Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:07:11 EDT Message-ID: <1998May3.13711.0> Precedence: bulk a few daze ago, Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK said: > In any case, I find non-lead solder a "pig" to work with.... Does that mean you have to solder it with a pig iron? (Sorry, just couldn't resist ) Sparks, former Pittsburgher ever ready to steel a good laugh... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 14:17:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Air Brush Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:06:55 EDT Message-ID: <1998May3.13655.0> Precedence: bulk About a week ago, charlie@az.stratus.com said: > just happened to be perusing my new catalog (#116) from > american science and = surplus (http://www.sciplus.com) > and they have one. p 12. item #23025 for $17.50. > adaptor #23026 (for connecting to a minicompressor) > $1.75. About those compressors: they can be a big problem, unless you live somewhere like Death Valley or the middle of the Aussie Outback (or Minnesota in the dead of winter) where the humidity stays around 2%. Otherwise you get condensation in your air supply - that will clog your sprayer faster than anything. If you decide that canned air is too freakin' expensive, make sure you invest in a drying canister for your compressor, or the "colorful 20th century metaphors" (to quote Captain Kirk) will be flying thick and fast! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 14:19:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 06:44:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Follow Up Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:07:35 EDT Message-ID: <1998May3.13735.0> Precedence: bulk Barbara Snell said: > Anyway.... yesterday I had a electrician here on an > unrelated project and just for kicks I asked him to check > the outlet....... he could not find a specific problem > but did find a little corrosion on the wires. He changed > the outlet and.............. I can solder fine now, even > with the rheostat. What do you know !! The quality of your electrical supply does make a *BIG* difference. I live in a house with 30+ year old barely-adequate wiring, in an area that tends to "brown out" easily (especially late in the afternoon) because it's on what used to be the outer edge of suburbia and has been built up faster than the utilities could (or would) keep up. I notice that my iron (Temptrol 100) runs "hot and cool" at home, but it's fine up at Christie's place. There's a part of me that would really like to get a great big "uninterruptible power source" (like we use with our computers but a bigger one, say 200-300 watts) and plug my iron into that! Until then, I try not to solder at certain times of the day. Using a heavy-duty appliance extension cord if your iron cord "just won't reach" makes a big difference too. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 14:23:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 06:51:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp15.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=mysteryboxofun Subject: anybody gets this as empty? Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:46:26 -0400 Message-ID: <199805021346.JAA00714@ppp15.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805030612.XAA09831@intergate.lasercom.net>> Precedence: bulk > THIS IS A MESSAGE IN 'MIME' FORMAT. > If you are reading this, your mail reader may not support MIME. > Some parts of this message will be readable as plain text. --mysteryboxofun Content-Type: text/plain If you were getting emtpy messages, and can read this, let me know to my email account. dmg P.S. It'd be sad if we have to accommodate for faulty computers :( --mysteryboxofun Content-Type: text/plain Jean twistes the bytes to say: Jean> Multi-part MIME format messages are NOT retrievable by all of our mail Jean> programs. Some of us receive blanks, some have their mail jammed. Others Jean> crash! It is not coincidental that so many received blank e-mail. Several Jean> of us have crashed too. Jean> Multi-part MIME format messages should not be sent to a list. Jean> ---- Jean> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com Jean> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Jean> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Daniel M. German "The first man of science was he who looked into a thing, not to learn whether it furnished him with food, or shelter, or weapons, or tools, or armaments, or playwiths; but who sought to know it for the gratification of Samuel Taylor Coleridge -> knowing." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca --mysteryboxofun-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 14:27:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 07:30:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lasercom.net!jean From: "Jean" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: MIME on LISTS Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 07:30:31 -0700 Message-ID: <199805031424.HAA20472@intergate.lasercom.net> Precedence: bulk Copied from List Master: --------------------------- > > > > > Why You Shouldn't Use Special Characters on the Net > > > > So, it is possible to transfer this type of thing across the Internet - > > probably happens millions of times a day - but it is required that both > > the sender and the receiver have MIME-compliant tools. Many mail > > readers include the ability to install MIME-compliant tools (Eudora, > > a common mail program, has these tools built in), however, some of > > these mail programs > > (examples would be ELM and PINE, but there are many others), if not > > fully configured by the system > > administrators, will display *nothing* when they encounter a MIME- > > encoded message. This is a worst-case scenario. Many times the mail > > program will open the message, but the special characters will be > > garbled. > > > > > > Out of any given set of subscribers to a mailing list or newsgroup, I > > wouldn't be surprised if far more than half aren't set up with just the > > right combination of mail/news reader, MIME-compliant tools, and terminal > > emulation or display system to properly view a umlauted "o". Integrated > > tools such as Netscape with its built-in news reader and mail reader, > > along with a suite of tools, is making major inroads in this area, but there is > > far to go yet. So, unless you want to confuse or outright exclude a large > > portion of your readers, you have to ensure that messages are viewable by > > those using plain mail readers with no MIME tools and VT-100 terminal > > emulation. Hence, no extended characters or special formatting in > > mailing lists or newsgroups for the foreseeable future. > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 14:30:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 08:58:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Repost of Bio# 16 Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:00:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May3.6027.0> Precedence: bulk Suzanne's Bio: I didn't discover glass until I was 46. The previous owner of our house in SE Penna. had installed some old leaded church windows and reluctantly left them when he moved; they were probably working on my subconscious for years. I was getting weary of running a typesetting business after 20 years being a slave to the customers; always rushing, deadline after deadline. I had spent my life chasing perfection, making sure the artists' work looked beautiful and was spelled right. Brought up in a family that worshipped art and music, I felt it was time to do something creative for myself. My mother painted lovely watercolors and had lived her life for it. I thought I had no artistic talent, that God had forgotten me when he was handing out the "creativity." I can't draw, I tried! It was childish. What to do? Took a class at a local shop. The night I returned with my first piece in hand, a very-badly-soldered daffodil panel, I fell in love. Hard. With a vengeance. With an intensity I'm sure you all can remember. Since then the typesetting business has gone south - computers changed all that, fast. I don't miss it at all. We are getting by on one income, thanks to my understanding and loving husband. I work at my own pace. I don't have the money I was used to, but wouldn't trade this freedom for all the tea in China. It's fun watching my students blossom with that same love. It's fun making a window for somebody and knowing they will enjoy it. It's even fun making small things and selling them at craft fairs. (I love how children stop at my table and their eyes light with the sparkle of glass.) And best of all, it's fun to know I *can* be creative, after all. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 14:34:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 11:41:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Stepping stone durability Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:08:57 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May3.2857.0> Precedence: bulk I have seen a lot on the bungi regarding concrete and winters, and I am going to put in my $.02 worth even though I have not yet done stones. There are hundreds of additives out there for cement/concrete that change or add to the properties of it. One in particular that comes to mind that is easily available (at least in North America) is Weldbond, an acrylic glue/sealer/additive. They recommend that it is substituted in a ratio of 1/10 (Weldbond/water) mix instead of just water. The water is used in the hydration on the cement and the Weldbond is used an "internal sealer" that adds extra bonding strength to the cement and resists penetration from the exterior by other material including water (once it has cured and hardened with the cement). This means that it is more resistant to freeze thaw, acid rain, abrasion, etc.. The completed project can be hen coated with a 1/5 ratio to seal the surface. There are other brands of acrylic material that can be added to the cement, contact the producer of the cement for a list of companies that make cement additives and discuss with them your needs. Another couple of points on the cement. Cement should not be allowed to dry out for at least 7 days after mixing as the major part of the hydration occurs over the first 7 days (anyone in the construction industry and familiar with concrete should already know this). The "second phase" of hardening lasts 'til about the 21st day after mixing. After that the increase in strength vs. time is minimal. If you are not keeping the cement wet for this time then the cement will be weaker relative to the time that it was not kept moist. This is applicable to portland (standard) cement and may vary for other products. With regard to reinforcement. Steel is used as a reinforcement for concrete because it has the same expansion coefficient as the concrete and therefore expands and contracts at the same rate as the concrete. This means that there are not shear forces between the concrete and steel because of differences in expansion rates. There is a problem with steel, it rusts and the chemical transition in the transition to iron oxide is very powerful. Iron oxide occupies many times the volume of the steel and it is this expansion that can tear a concrete freeway apart. one solution is to coat the reinforcing metal with a sealer (bridges built now use epoxy coated rebar to overcome this rust factor. Another product that is more expensive than portland cement is a product known as Ciment Fondu (correct spelling) also known as calcium aluminate. This is a fine grained architectural cement that will cure in freezing temperature because the hydration is very exothermic (very important not to let dry out especially in 1st 24 hrs as the reaction can boil water). This material is a dark rich oxidized bronze in colour. I sometimes use this material in my sculptures. A good solution for reinforcement is the addition of a SMALL amount of "chopped" fiberglass strand to the cement mixture. This is often done in building to increase the tensile strength of the concrete and it's resistance to resist a shearing break, which is most often what happens to concrete when it breaks. I hope that this information is of use to those doing stones. Enjoy. Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: PUZZY KATZ [SMTP:PUZZYKATZ@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 02, 1998 11:27 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Harley Pattern I would love to have a copy of this Harley pattern tooo On the subject of stones I am looking for something smoother then Quickcrete Morter.. We have cold winters here in Arkasas and i dont know if grout would hold up. I am using the mold method. :PS. Dimondcrete is to expensive The Puzz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 14:41:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 12:38:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Reposts of Bios Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:15:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May3.61516.0> Precedence: bulk Feel like I'm standing naked in a hailstorm. Sorry for the problems, I think I have discovered the problem. I just installed Outlook 98 and the default is HTML format. I have corrected the problem (I think). I'm sure I will hear if I haven't (LOL) Patrick Roses and Bruises ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 14:46:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 12:39:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Repost of Harley Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:10:10 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May3.61010.0> Precedence: bulk Somebody recently posted that they had made a pattern for a Harley. They used mirrors for the chrome. That is as much as I can remember (must be a brain cramp, it can't be old age). Would the poster please contact me I'd like a copy of the pattern. I read this post and immediately had a flashback to my younger days and more dangerous life style. You could always tell when I was happy by the bug stains on my teeth. Ahhh yes.... now the wind just blows through my scalp. TIA Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 14:48:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 12:40:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Repost of Bio# 17 Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:07:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May3.6732.0> Precedence: bulk Name: Diane Manchester Location: Delray Beach, Florida Daytime Job-Work part-time for Drug Abuse Foundation - helping test new updates for the Medical records program used by the foundation. Other Part-Time Job: Sunrise Stained Glass (studio in Boca Raton, FL) Other: Full time mom to a 3-1/2year old daughter ("Julia"), who knows all the lingo for stained glass, and even colors her pictures in "stained glass" colors Marital Status: Married almost 6 years (whew...where did that time go???!!) Companion animals: 1 golden retriever; 1 horse (and 1 husband :>) Background: Born in San Francisco, CA and lived in Los Gatos CA until I was 19. I was raised in a family of 6 (I have 3 older brothers), and my father was the owner of a picture framing store. Our family is very artistic (we got the art, not the music), except for me. I can't draw worth a bean, but I can translate any object or splash of color into glass. I thank God for this gift and passion for glass. After graduating from high school, it was time to explore the world, and I moved to Florida to live with my mother. (Still here.....) I have a degree in Special Education, and a career in the corporate world. My interests are as varied as the colors in the rainbow. I love art and color as much as I enjoy computers and horseback riding, and I make time for them all. My husband and are looking to move to the Charlotte, NC area, and we are selling our townhouse in South Florida (that's a free plug....sorry, couldn't resist.) I am also very involved with our church, and I hope that all find time to nurture and grow their spiritual sense........ Glass: A boyfriend in high school turned me on to the wonders of stained glass (that was back in 1975). I made my first small piece in his studio in Ketchum (Sun Valley), Idaho. Then, my brother gave me his soldering gun, and the rest is history. My garage is currently set up as my studio. I started a home-based business in 1985 as "Tiffany Styled Originals", and have done art shows, renaissance fairs, home parties, and gallery commissions since I started. I helped pay my way through college doing stained glass in my dorm room.......and I continue to thrive on the wonders of glass. I do not get tired of it, but I have found that I enjoy my own creating, as opposed to contracting my services with a stained glass shop. Glass has been a part of my life for just about 20 years now, and I have yet to tire of it, in fact, I love it more now that ever.....gee, kind of like marriage! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 15:06:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 13:38:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (a/k/a Tracy)" To: Jean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: test Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 14:59:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May3.95942.0> References: <<199805030122.SAA27942@intergate.lasercom.net>> Precedence: bulk And here I thought people were just being extremely "brief" in their messages!!! *g* I'm also having the same problem with some of the e-mails. This didn't start happening until I downloaded a more recent Netscape Communicator (4.something). I've looked through some of the settings in the e-mail part but so far I haven't figured out what needs to be changed. Anyone out there who has been able to figure this out???? Thanks!!! (P.S. I've also been keeping track of the e-mails on grinders and think I might check into the Diamond Max since the grinder I'm using now I bought used (a very small Inland Wizling) and I think I've pretty well "out-grown" it. Any leads on where to check this grinder out would be much appreciated. ) Jean wrote: > We have been through this before, several times. The problem is we all have > different e-mail programs. They do NOT all read the same. Many do not > handle multi-part messages in MIME format. They either appear blank, or (as > in my case) they jam or crash the machine! Most lists advise against > listers sending multi-part messages in MIME format for that reason. But > those of us who have the problem are in the minority so guess it's up to us > to change our programs-- or deal with it. I have learned I can go to my > MAILCITY, or HOTMAIL e-mail accounts, pull up my POP mail, and that clears > the problem. It still shows no message, but when I click on forward message > THEN it all appears (as if by magic). There are a couple of great > computer-wise people on the list who can probably explain it much better > than I. > > Jean > > ---------- > > From: Sheila > > To: glass@bungi.com > > Subject: Re: test > > Date: Saturday, May 02, 1998 3:58 PM > > > > I too got those bios with no text to them....thought it was just > > me.....also the un-biased came thru with no text here.......Have no > > idea why? Just my two cents worth..... > > > > Still lurking in Ohio > > Sheila > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > DO YOU YAHOO!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 15:16:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 14:57:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: Whispy Blu To: pkelly@n-link.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Reposts of Bios Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 17:55:18 EDT Message-ID: <1998May3.215518.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 5/3/98 4:42:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time, pkelly@n- link.com writes: << Feel like I'm standing naked in a hailstorm. >> OUCH!!!! - Sorry about that Patrick - take cover from those of us who know it was not intentional and understand that sh** happens sometimes without intent. Thanks for the time and effort you put in to bring us the bios. Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 15:34:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 15:02:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: Whispy Blu To: pkelly@n-link.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Repost of Harley Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 17:57:19 EDT Message-ID: <1998May3.215719.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 5/3/98 4:47:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time, pkelly@n- link.com writes: << Somebody recently posted that they had made a pattern for a Harley >> I think it was Christi Wood......maybe not........would also be interested in pattern. Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 17:17:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 17:08:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: Lead free solder Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 01:07:10 +0000 Message-ID: <199805040007.BAA28722@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Well "Sparks", My students find invariably that the lead twists and curls, just like a pig's tail - they always manage to burn a hole through the electrics (however much I preach and rant at them); so I suppose you might call the iron a "Pig's Iron".... ( ;-> ) Oh... for the joys of teaching....! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Sparks wrote: a few daze ago, Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK said: > In any case, I find non-lead solder a "pig" to work with.... Does that mean you have to solder it with a pig iron? (Sorry, just couldn't resist ) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 17:37:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 16:46:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: power (irons) Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 15:29:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May3.82954.0> Precedence: bulk A simple way to mitigate the lack of consistent power to a big (watt) iron is go to an UNGAR 45watt iron. This light little iron HAS a hotter tip temp than the big ones, BUT you could not solder on a block of ice at -40 degrees as it lacks the staying power of the 200+ watt irons. I use an Ungar ONLY and I have no problems melting 50/50 to form a GOOD bead. Ask around to the few people who have them. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 17:47:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 17:29:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Today's Bios Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 20:28:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May3.162824.0> Precedence: bulk Why haven't we heard of = problems with the previous bios that were posted? Maybe that will give Patrick a clue as to what happened yesterday.... that didn't happen before. After all, he's been posting bios for two months now. And I'm still enjoying them, too! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 18:18:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 17:59:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Romajoco From: Romajoco To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 20:58:02 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.0582.0> Precedence: bulk Mary, I don't know if you have already gotten you a grinder or not. However, whichever one you do end up getting - GET you a foot switch to use with it. I have one of my grinder and it sure helps....when I take my foot off the switch the grinder stops. It sure beats having to turn the grinder off and on at the switch. I have 2 grinders....my first one is a Glastar and I think after 15 years it has finally died. I hope not though...it is a good, dear friend. I have done so many projects with my Glastar...I can't imagine not having it any more. My other one is the Diamond Max grinder and I like it too but have not became as attached to it as I was with my Glastar. >From what I have been reading from the postings....everybody that has a Glastar likes them and they hold up remarkably well. Let us know what you get and good luck in your hunt. Margie (normally a lurker) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 19:19:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Stnglsgrn From: Stnglsgrn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Shocking grinders NO Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:02:20 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.2220.0> Precedence: bulk To those who are getting shocked. This is a very serious electrical fault in the grinder. Don't use the grinder until you find out what's wrong and get it fixed. The switch or machine could use a cleaning. The ground on the machine or plug could be broken. Get someone who knows about elecrticty to look at it for you. You should not get a shock from any electrical machine under any conditions, if you do, something is wrong with the machine. Don ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 21:48:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 21:29:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:31:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May3.183134.0> Precedence: bulk I've had a Glastar Superstar 2 for about 3 years now and cant wear it out it would seem...I do glass work as a sideline business that I hope will be full time in a few years.. Anyway I use the grinder a lot and it does a great job...I also use a Inland Twin Spin for some beveling and it too works great... One thing you will want to spend a little extra for is a footpeddle switch... Well worth the $20-25.. No dopping of glass fumbling for a hand switch.. Byron.. Wells Glassworks -----Original Message----- From: M Kuhn To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 2:48 PM Subject: Grinders: Which one to buy? >Hi Folks! >I'm new to this site and am looking forward to all the info you offer. > >I'm a working Mom and do stained glass when I can, (certainly not as often >as I would like). > >I'm in the market for a grinder and was looking in the delphi catalog and >decided I could use your advice. > >What do I really need to look for? What options are most important? My >price range is $100 - $150. > >Thanks for your help! > >Mary >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 22:49:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 21:45:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Drip System,Was Re: Grinders: Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:45:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May3.184543.0> Precedence: bulk Joyce, If you want a drip system that works great try this out... You need a 2 liter coke bottle,1 aquarium airline coupling,few feet of aquarium airline tubing,an airline shut off valve and a little silicone glue. Drill a small hole in the side of the coke bottle an inch or so above the bottom just large enough to fit 1 end of the coupling into..Put a little silicone around the hole and push in the coupling..In a day or so after its dry you attach the airline and shutoff valve... It works great.. I have an Inland Twin Spin with the beveling kit and it also comes with some sorry little cup and hose that is annoying to keep refilling.... Byron... Wells Glassworks >>But otherwise, I think I would vote for the Diamond Tech's Diamond Max as >one of the most versatile grinders I have seen for a while. It needs to >have a built in drip system that works, instead of the one that hangs onto >the shield and you have to pay extra for, and the place for the sponge to >sit down in needs to be wider so that more water can soak up into the >sponge, but other than that I love it. (Well maybe I'm getting as cranky >as Howard in my old age!) I really think they all have some type of >drawbacks in order to get the features that you want. And the best thing >to do is to try them out, either at a friend's house, your instructor's >place, or at your retailer's in order to get the feel of what you want. > >Well off my soapbox about grinders now. (Yes Elisabeth I know...if you cut >properly you don't need a grinder at all, but then I do foil not lead and I >love my grinder!) > >Garden of Glass >Joyce Moran >Bellefontaine, OH > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 3 23:03:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 3 May 1998 22:02:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, gspicer@seaside.net Subject: RE: Stepping stone durability Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 01:00:19, -0500 Message-ID: <199805040500.BAA13006@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>I have seen a lot on the bungi regarding concrete and winters, and I am going to put in my $.02 worth even though I have not yet done stones. << huge snip>> Thanks Glenn. You covered the bases for me in the construction of stepping stones to avoid cracking. I would like to add my idea of why so many people have trouble with breakage. For a concrete stone to survive as a stepping stone it must be properly bedded to the earth. Just digging out a hole and placing a stone is an invitation to breakage due to the fact that the stone is likely to only be firmly resting on a portion of its contact surface. Even a small pebble sticking up in the bed creates a pressure point and the stone breaks. A good way to properly bed a stone is to scoup out a hole at least twice as deep as the stone is thick. Back fill the hole with clean sand (buy from the hardware store if necessary) to the necessary depth and place the stepping stone. This will help ensure that the stone is evenly supported and the chance of breakage is greatly reduced. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Capt'n! The spellchecker kinna take this abuse!* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 01:55:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 01:31:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stepping stone durability Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 04:30:01 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.8301.0> Precedence: bulk Thankyou for all the imput on durability... I am looking for a smooth cement, grout, or what ever, that will not look grainy between the seams when unmolded... Maybe im just a perfectionist.. But there has got to be something out there that is as smooth as grout around tile in a bathroom.... Please HELPPPPPP! The Puzz >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 02:06:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 01:16:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Repost of Harley Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 04:14:37 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.81437.0> Precedence: bulk Me too tooo Please send me the Harley Pattern... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 02:21:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 01:21:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Margie lurks? Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 04:21:01 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.8211.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Margie I finally made it... The Puzz >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 05:27:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 04:33:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles From: "Charles Warner" To: "Stnglsgrn" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Shocking grinders NO Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 07:29:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.32947.0> Precedence: bulk >To those who are getting shocked. >This is a very serious electrical fault in the grinder. Don't use the grinder >until you find out what's wrong and get it fixed. The switch or machine could >use a cleaning. The ground on the machine or plug could be broken. Get someone >who knows about elecrticty to look at it for you. >You should not get a shock from any electrical machine under any conditions, >if you do, something is wrong with the machine. Don >---- This is certainly true. My experience is that even the grinder company with the worst customer service will immediately (and quietly) respond to this complaint. Remember-grinders have 5 year warranties. DO NOT USE A GRINDER THAT SHOCKS YOU Charles Warner Warner-Crivellaro ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 05:47:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 05:02:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: Whispy Blu To: PUZZYKATZ@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stepping stone durability Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 07:59:45 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.115945.0> Precedence: bulk Diamondcrete is as smooth as it gets, also as expensive as it gets. I use a sand topping concrete mix that is much smoother than other concrete. Hope this helps. Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 05:56:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 05:24:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles From: "Charles Warner" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:22:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.42228.0> Precedence: bulk >Also, unless things have changed or I'm just plain mistaken, for years it >has been my understanding that the Glastar was UL approved and the >Inland machines were not. If I'm going to stick my hands into water on >an electric appliance, I'd like to know that someone's checked it out. >Feel free to toast me if I'm wrong about this one. Not wrong but there is a subtle difference. Components of the Inland machine are UL approved, the machine as a unit is not. United Laboratories (UL) is an independent U.S. company which approves the item itself based on U.S. requirements, but more importantly approves the processes and testing processes used in the manufacture of the unit. I don't believe a distributor or retailer would knowingly sell a product that is unsafe. BTW last week one of our customers told us the Glastar grinder they purchased from us shocked them... even UL approved items can be faulty. Charles Warner Warner-Crivellaro ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 06:09:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 05:35:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: shocking grinders Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 05:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805041233.FAA05071@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Thanks guys, Low and behold my husband is an electrican!!! Best to get him on it. It is CSA approved with a ground prong on it, but if it's making a path to the water I don't want my hair curled. Smiles, Cindy PS I've had no troubles with the bio posts, they have come in well. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 06:21:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 05:36:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Scratches in Crystal Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 05:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805041235.FAA30679@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > >Howdy Earl, I was going to take this off the open air, but thought there might be some folks out there interested in the subject. Cerium oxide is use by commerical window installers, not the stained glass industry, why they have it I'm not sure...I've talked to artists and I've talked to commerical window installers and it's crappy. But somebody must know how to make it work cos it's around. (excuse my frankness, but I've tried it and was not impressed.) Your medium sounds interesting, simular but not quite the same, I use a photo resist that I develope under yellow lighting and a uv light developer... it gets washed out and dried and adhesive is applied in my case. My art work needs to be camera ready art using a laser printer for crispness, black = blast. (not like Captain Crunch) Seems you know exactly what you are doing, but maybe need a duller exacto knife. It never fails in this line of work....bad things can happen, but I take that back even in stained glass things can happen....good soldering days bad soldering days... good glass days and bad glass days. To answer you other questions I use alumuim oxide 100 grit, pressure pot for blasting either cabinet work or blasting room work with free air supply, and I've been doing this for 6 years now and totally love it. But others now know I like my hammer also incase I don't like my work!!! Hand engraving??? You mean that tool that makes the nail on the chalk board sound, oh dear GOD,.... NO. I'd go mad, just give me the gun and I'll shoot air under pressure with a little grit and get the job done now!!! I do apprecate the work of diamond point engraving, English and European artists especially, of which there isn't too many!!! Last but not least the drill, it's a common shop drill 3/8 or 1/2, maybe even a die grinder. Enjoyed the chat, thank you All the best, Cindy Earl very kindly replied: >Thank you for your reply. Ceriun Oxide is not something I am familiar with. >When you mention glazing stores are you referring to >stained glass window supply stores? Since I am not involved with the >stained glass industry I'm not exactly sure of the terms you talking about. >I agree with you that you must be extreemly careful when engraving any glass >or crystal. In fact with this particular engraving, I was using a stencil >from Raven, Inc. called repro-film a self-adhesive film. Its used in the >architectural and engineering fields for drawings, title blocks, cut and >past drafting, graphic layout work etc. >I lay out my lettering and or designs which ever I am using on the computer >first for sizing, then print it off on one of these repro-film sheets (also >known as transfer sheets), peel off the back of it and apply it to the >object. Generally I don't have much difficulty with this type of >application, however this one particular sheet was extreemly difficult to >remove and I had to use an exacto knife to help. Once I got the stencil >film off is when I noticed I had a scratch. It just happened to be near >where I had engraved. I felt sure it was more noticeable because I could >see it, but then again I knew what I was looking for. Since I couldn't hold >off giving the customer back the crystal platter I don't have it to attempt >to remove it. However I may need to have something to remove scratches >later. >Generally I do mask off the area beyond the engraving area for safe keeping. >What type of sand blasting unit or system are you using? >How long have you been sand blasting? Do you do hand engraving? >You mention wool felt head that are put into the end of a drill? What type >of drill are you referring to? >If Cerium oxide can also produce more scratches, is it really worth using it >at all? >Thanks again for your information and help. Its appreciated. >Earl >engraving@chesco.com > > > > > > > > > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 06:29:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 05:36:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Hand tools and very off glass request Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 06:21:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May4.1218.0> Precedence: bulk Sparks' note on using cd boxes for foil dispensers gets my vote! Almost forgot the suggestion on doubling back foil to make loading the hand held foiling gadget easier. That tip really works! My 98 year old mother, who lives w/me, fell last week and broke her hip and back. She has had surgery to reduce the fracture but must wear a brace that she swears is a torture devise someone dreamed up. She is in Physical Therapy and doing well but she could sure use some extra prayers and good thoughts sent her way. Thank you to anyone so inclined. Nelda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 07:28:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 06:57:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Stiffel Stuff (back to glass), was Re: Today's Bios Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:56:36 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.135636.0> Precedence: bulk Oh, the irony. Yesterday I sent this message: > OTOH, some of us get those HTML messages "double" [...] And lo and behold, *it* shows up twice! =8-O I swear on a stack of Warner-Crivellaro catalogs, I only sent it once! Anyway, apologies for inadvertently stuffing all-y'all's mailboxes. But seriously, folks... Last weekend my sweetie and I were out in the Lancaster (PA) area for a much- needed weekend off, spent a little time wandering around one of the local mega-outlet centers, and stopped in at the Stiffel lamp outlet to check out the Mission-style lamps (which, I must confess, *he* saw the first time we went by the store, and I didn't see until the second time...) Now, Stiffel has a prety good reputation as a maker of lighting, so I expected to see some good (or at least decent) stuff. Wrong! It looked good from 10 feet away, but up close it was *crap.* Absolute complete total unmitigated crap. Even a raw newbie would have to be nearly passing-out drunk to do such a bad foiling job. Wandering foil lines that in some cases didn't even manage to fold over the front of the glass. Untrimmed overlaps sticking out nearly an eighth of an inch. Ripped foil on straight lines. And as for the cutting - big chips out of the back side of the glass. And the regular prices on these monstrosities were $680. Even at a 50% markdown they weren't worth it. In fact, judging from the non-complexity of the designs and the fact that they're "mass-produced," even my undeveloped pricing awareness says they should have only gone for around "half-price" in the first place (and then only if the workmanship were up to snuff)... Now these things have "Made in the USA" tags hanging all over them. I presume this is another one of those "made the shades (or at least the panels - the framing construction was OK... makse sense that they'd get a bunch of flat panels shipped in from somewhere and do the 3-D assembly here) elsewhere and stuck them on the bases in the US, so we can get away with saying that" thangs? Anybody know where Stiffel shades are made? End of tirade. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 07:48:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 06:58:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: Lead free solder Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:57:00 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.13570.0> Precedence: bulk The other day I picked up a book that included a pattern for a fruit bowl and suggested coating the soldered seams on the inside of the bowl with clear nail polish. (This assumes the use of regular solder.) I'm skeptical, to say the least. Has anyone tried this? Does it hold up? I would think that it'd bubble up and peel off when you tried to wash the bowl, just like it does on your nails... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 08:04:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 06:41:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Advertising on bungi (was re-post on grinders) Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 14:34:49 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May3.153449.0> Precedence: bulk At 13:46 02/05/98 -0700, Howard wrote: > >I can match and or go below most grinder prices. Get a price and let me know >before buying. > >Sorry (not really) for the plug.........enjoy, H Speaking as outsiders here in the UK with nothing to gain or lose from US members of the list advertising like Howard has here - several other US and Canadian members of this list also sell equipment and materials and may be able to pricematch if people are in the market to buy grinders etc. Shouldnt we all keep general sales pitches off bungi and send them to the individual who might be interested rather than the whole group? Elizabeth & Sam Law (Bournemouth Stained Glass) 790 Wimborne Road Bournemouth Dorset BH9 2DX England http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 09:08:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 08:07:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bc.sympatico.ca!tuka From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Stepping stones Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:09:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199805041505.IAA21893@mail1.bctel.ca> Precedence: bulk I have a recurring problem with stepping stones. Hope someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong. Almost every stone I make, at least one piece of glass "sinks" into the concrete. I make sure the glass is stuck to the contact paper really well, try to get the concrete mix not too wet, and it still happens. At a friend's suggestion, I tried sticking the glass to the contact paper with silicon. That works, but scraping off the silicon afterwards is a major pain. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 09:37:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 08:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Re: Lead free solder Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805041519.IAA23798@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi ya Sparks, I've seen that written in books before (many,many years ago sort of stuff) I would think after lots of washing nail polish would wear off. I tend to believe, none of it is good, even the lead free. Heavy metals are heavy metals. IMHO,....Smiles, Cindy >Sparks has written: >The other day I picked up a book that included a pattern for a fruit bowl and >suggested coating the soldered seams on the inside of the bowl with clear nail >polish. (This assumes the use of regular solder.) > >I'm skeptical, to say the least. Has anyone tried this? Does it hold up? I >would think that it'd bubble up and peel off when you tried to wash the bowl, >just like it does on your nails... > > >Sparks >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 09:53:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 08:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stiffel Stuff (back to glass), was Re: Today's Bios Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:28:51 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.152851.0> Precedence: bulk a stack of Warner-Crivellaro catalogs huh...:*( sniff I want one, didnt your Mommy teach you to share? >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 10:11:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 08:32:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: Smooth grout Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:29:26 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.152926.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_894295766_boundary Content-ID: <0_894295766@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ooops --part0_894295766_boundary Content-ID: <0_894295766@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: PUZZY KATZ Return-path: To: sigglass@nb.net Subject: Re: Smooth grout Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:13:21 EDT Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Where can I find Latham white mud topping for stepping stones. Thankyou for info Puzz >^..^< Had cats all my life Love the furry little critters --part0_894295766_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 10:11:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 08:59:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!HILLHD1 From: HILL HD1 To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE:LEAD CASTINGS Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:57:16 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.155716.0> Precedence: bulk I have done a few lead castings:angels,butterfly's,butterfly lady ect. Does anyone have tips for soldering wings ect to bodies; seems to take forever & so hard not to touch hooks and melt them off. I've been told the one before applying patina to wash in soapy amonia solution for the patina to take better. I have purchased some monster metal dragons also which I plan to work on fairly soon. NEW LURKER, HOBBIEST HERE FROM WISCONSIN. Karlene Hill :>) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 10:29:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 08:45:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: goggles/tools Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:43:22 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.154322.0> Precedence: bulk I now have a new FAVORITE glass tool. I wear my goggles faithfully when cutting and breaking and grinding glass. Never even though about using them to solder, NOW I have. This weekend I was tinning some angel halos, the twisted wire ones. Well my pliers that I hold them with were getting annoying, they were cruded over and not oening and closing well so I asked hubby for like an alligator clip with a handle that wouldn't get hot. He brought me a clip like from the battery charger, looked good but it had no teeth. It seemed to work but the halo kept bouncing out. Well I had a good bead of solder on it runnign around when sure enough it sprung at me and I go hot solder and flux flung into my eye. TALK about being scared!! turned out I was pretty lucky. I flushed it imediatly with water, and pulled out a piece of solder that must have cooled when it hit my eye, it was now a fat needle shape. turns out I burned the inside of the corner of my eye, tear ducts seem to be working though (thank GOD) I am using antibiotic cream now and its doing much better but you won't see me without goggles now!!!! I have about 5 pair deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 10:34:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:07:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Grinders: shocking Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:05:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.8516.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Cindy Pesonen >My grinder was been shocking me for awhile, seems to be bad when my hand= s are wet and go to touch it. Hmmm, can I fix this problem? Thanks in advance, Cindy< Yep, can be fixed. My Inland did the same. The switch needs to be replaced. Your grinder should be under waranty from where you purchased it. Inland will replace the switch for free. It's simple to replace. And worth the time to fix the problem. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 10:36:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Lead free solder Date: Mon, 4 May 98 09:47:04 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<199805041519.IAA23798@ns2.vphos.net>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > Hi ya Sparks, > I've seen that written in books before (many,many years ago sort of stuff) I > would think after lots of washing nail polish would wear off. > I tend to believe, none of it is good, even the lead free. Heavy metals are > heavy metals. > IMHO,....Smiles, Cindy > > Sparks has written: > The other day I picked up a book that included a pattern for a fruit bowl and > suggested coating the soldered seams on the inside of the bowl with clear > nail polish. (This assumes the use of regular solder.) > > I'm skeptical, to say the least. Has anyone tried this? Does it hold up? I > would think that it'd bubble up and peel off when you tried to wash the bowl, > just like it does on your nails... > > > Sparks on a similar note, i was in one of those super stores that seem to be springing up all over, where they sell everything that you need for housewares. on a side note, do you notice that they all have something extra ('bed, bath, and BEYOND', linens 'PLUS', etc?) anyway, i was in the bath accessories and found a whole rack of toothbrush holders, sides and top made out of stained glass and bevels, all SOLDERED (poorly done, and all corroded already) together. even if this was lead-free solder, does anyone else think this is a bad thing waiting to happen? charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 11:01:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 10:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: HILLHD1@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: LEAD CASTINGS Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:15:35 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.171535.0> Precedence: bulk have you found a web sight for monster metals? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 12:35:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 10:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: HILLHD1@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: LEAD CASTINGS Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:15:35 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.171535.0> Precedence: bulk have you found a web sight for monster metals? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 12:55:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 10:43:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: snet.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: "'Bungi Glass List'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD7762.4B305140" Subject: FW: Air Brush Responses Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:40:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.94030.0> Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7762.4B305140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- From: Tim Byrnes[SMTP:tbyrnes@snet.net] Sent: Saturday, May 02, 1998 11:35 PM To: 'glass list' Subject: Air Brush Responses ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7623.1E81D500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Folks, I would like to say Thank you to everyone who responded to helping me on my seach for an Air Brush supplier. 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German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:goggles/tools Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:44:22 -0400 Message-ID: <199805031744.NAA00281@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998May4.154322.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Deb, Deb twistes the bytes to say: Deb> bead of solder on it runnign around when sure enough it sprung at me and I go Deb> hot solder and flux flung into my eye. TALK about being scared!! turned out Deb> I was pretty lucky. I flushed it imediatly with water, and pulled out a piece Deb> of solder that must have cooled when it hit my eye, it was now a fat needle Deb> shape. turns out I burned the inside of the corner of my eye, tear ducts Deb> seem to be working though (thank GOD) I am using antibiotic cream now and its Deb> doing much better but you won't see me without goggles now!!!! I have about 5 Deb> pair Thanks God it was not too serious. Almost from the beginning, I noticed that trapped flux under the solder starts to boil and it tends to jump in small balls of solder. Since, I don't let myself work without the goggles. I burn my fingers frequently, I work bear-footed hence I get glass slivers inserted into my feet once in a while that I have to remove with a needle. I can live with those --not that I like them, though... but my eyes... those are too precious. I hope you recover quickly and it does not leave any trace behind. -- Daniel M. German "There is no national science as there is no national multiplication table; Anton Chekov -> what is national is no longer science." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 13:22:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 11:52:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Electrical safety was: Re: Grinders: shocking Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:49:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.104953.0> References: <<1998May4.8516.0>> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk A basic FYI - ANY outlet that is used near water should be a GFI/GFCI - a Ground Fault Circuit Interupter - These are the ones most commonly found in powder rooms - with the little test/reset buttons - if a fault/short is detected a 'breaker' pops - preventing electrocution. The fault does not have to be in a device -it can be a problem with the circuit in the wall itself. Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > Message text written by Cindy Pesonen > >My grinder was been shocking me for awhile, seems to be bad when my hand= > s > are wet and go to touch it. Hmmm, can I fix this problem? > Thanks in advance, Cindy< > > Yep, can be fixed. My Inland did the same. The switch > needs to be replaced. Your grinder should be under waranty > from where you purchased it. Inland will replace the > switch for free. It's simple to replace. And worth the time > to fix the problem. > > Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles > 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 13:22:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 12:29:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, cpesonen@bcinternet.net Subject: Re: Scratches in Crystal Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:30:39, -0500 Message-ID: <199805041830.OAA09230@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Cerium oxide is use by commerical window installers, not the stained glass industry, why they have it I'm not sure...I've talked to artists and I've talked to commerical window installers and it's crappy.<< There are several grades of ceriun oxide. The coarse cleaning grades are for just that. The polishing grades are necessary for a high polish. CO453 from C. R. Laurence (800 421-6144) works well for me. A comment on micro scratches on crystal. DON'T SCRATCH THE CRYSTAL TO BEGIN WITH. Even a small amount of very fine grit on the fingers can produce the scratches. In my experience a scratch almost always means a piece that can not be salvaged. But we still try, sigh, Bob Ps: I think that removing resist under running water can help to reducing scratching also. Cann't prove it, I just do it. ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Capt'n! The spellchecker kinna take this abuse!* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 13:29:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 12:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: more scary stuff on lead Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805041943.MAA13077@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Charlie, It really upsets me, maybe people aren't aware, but last week on the news there was this company making kids jewelery and using lead 100% to encase a little flower. Well the girl had been chewing on it, had very high levels of lead in her, but thankfully not extreme enough for neurological damage!!! I guess it's buyer beware, but truely the scare must be awful. I remember years ago there was talk to not allow lead in the stained glass industry anymore, but the idea was vitoed out because of the lost to the whole movement of stained glass that it would cause. I believe caution is the key word, but that doesn't keep us safe from the idiots in the world that carry on with using lead in the wrong ways. I'd go back to the store that was in and point out the scariness of their merchandise. Have a good one, Cindy > > >> >Charlie writes: >on a similar note, i was in one of those super stores that seem to be >springing up all over, where they sell everything that you need for housewares. > >on a side note, do you notice that they all have something extra ('bed, bath, >and BEYOND', linens 'PLUS', etc?) > >anyway, i was in the bath accessories and found a whole rack of toothbrush >holders, sides and top made out of stained glass and bevels, all SOLDERED >(poorly done, and all corroded already) together. even if this was lead-free >solder, does anyone else think this is a bad thing waiting to happen? > >charlie >--- >Charles Spitzer >charlie@az.stratus.com >Customer Assistance Center >Stratus Computer, Inc. >Phoenix, AZ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 13:59:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 13:21:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Margaret41 From: Margaret41 To: pkelly@n-link.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Today's Bios Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:19:20 EDT Message-ID: <1998May4.201920.0> Precedence: bulk what I noticed different in these bios is that they came thru color-coded in red. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 15:33:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 13:57:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: LEAD CASTINGS Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 21:56:58 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May4.225658.0> Precedence: bulk At 13:15 04/05/98 Katz wrote: >have you found a web sight for monster metals? > Yes, http://www.monstermetals.com, email to monster@monstermetals.com Lots of pics of their products and the guys & gals there are friendly too. Elizabeth & Sam Law (Bournemouth Stained Glass) 790 Wimborne Road Bournemouth Dorset BH9 2DX England http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 15:39:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 14:25:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fast.net!charles From: "Charles Warner" To: "PUZZY KATZ" , , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: LEAD CASTINGS Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:22:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.132217.0> Precedence: bulk try http://www.monstermetals.com -----Original Message----- From: PUZZY KATZ To: HILLHD1@aol.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 2:06 PM Subject: Re: LEAD CASTINGS >have you found a web sight for monster metals? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 15:59:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 13:59:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:more scary stuff on lead Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 16:58:01 -0400 Message-ID: <199805032058.QAA00607@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805041943.MAA13077@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi Cindy, Cindy Pesonen twistes the bytes to say: >> Hi Charlie, Cindy> It really upsets me, maybe people aren't aware, but last week on the news Cindy> there was this company making kids jewelery and using lead 100% to encase a Cindy> little flower. Well the girl had been chewing on it, had very high levels of Cindy> lead in her, but thankfully not extreme enough for neurological damage!!! I Cindy> guess it's buyer beware, but truely the scare must be awful. I grew up playing with lead pencils (lead instead of graphite), I ate in clay pottery that contained lead, and I breathed in at atmosphere full of lead --sideproduct of lead-loaded gasoline. I still feel smart :) I even played with mercury with my hands! I don't downsize the risks, but I think we, at the same time, have been too scared by press. Cindy> I remember years ago there was talk to not allow lead in the stained glass Cindy> industry anymore, but the idea was vitoed out because of the lost to the Cindy> whole movement of stained glass that it would cause. I believe caution is Yeap, I wonder about it. If a parent is willing to return blinds that contain lead in minimal amounts --something that happened around one year here in Canada-- would they not be inclined to do the same to windows and lamps? We only need a scary story in CNN the Post or the Times or a child that used to lick his home stained-windows and did not pass second grade. Cindy> the key word, but that doesn't keep us safe from the idiots in the world Cindy> that carry on with using lead in the wrong ways. Certainly the use of lead in children products is wrong. But, given that we know the risks of lead to pregnant women and children, aren't we also morally responsible for bringing a risk to a household? Do any of you put a sticker that says: this product contains lead; lead is known to ... in your products? Do you warn potential customers of the risks? I am sure some of you do. Imagine a class action civil suit against all stained glass workers in the USA! It might not be that improbable (thanks God I am one of those "cheap overseas" stained glass workers :) . I just gave a gift to one of my friends to put in the window on his child. He chose not to use in her bedroom after I told him that it contained lead. Anybody out there who only uses lead-free solder as an ethical decision? Just curious... Cindy> I'd go back to the store that was in and point out the scariness of their Cindy> merchandise. -- Daniel M. German "No style of thinking will survive which cannot produce a usable product when Thomas Favill Gladwin -> survival is at stake." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 16:08:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 14:34:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "HILL HD1" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE:LEAD CASTINGS Date: Mon, 4 May 98 17:04:07 -0400 Message-ID: <199805042102.RAA25025@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk >I have done a few lead castings:angels,butterfly's,butterfly lady ect. Does >anyone have tips for soldering wings ect to bodies; seems to take forever >& so >hard not to touch hooks and melt them off. I've been told the one before >applying patina to wash in soapy amonia solution for the patina to take >better. I have purchased some monster metal dragons also which I plan to >work on fairly soon. Karlene, I have just now (5:00 p.m. EST) E-mailed Creative Castings at www.creativecasting.com, for any tips they might have on attaching the wings to the Butterfly Lady with Scarf. I noticed their wings don't line up as in the picture on their package. If I hear from them, I'll pass it on through Bungi. Suzanne Albright suzy@comcat.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 16:10:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 14:40:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: PUZZY KATZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: LEAD CASTINGS Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 17:37:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.133739.0> References: <<1998May4.171535.0>> Precedence: bulk PUZZY KATZ wrote: > > have you found a web sight for monster metals? > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass sure it's http://www.monstermetals.com/ ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 16:19:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 14:46:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:goggles/tools...eyes and feet Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805042145.OAA31748@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Deb, I'm very glad that it wasn't serious,.... you know this is a good topic to talk about, so sorry that it caused you pain and fear. I go in for eye check up's every so often and I remind the Dr. of my work to look for burns on the eye. It's a scary issue that's for sure. I also to kiln work and "use to" peek over my glasses for the "good check on things" BAD>BAD>BAD. And this is 2 messages into 1... Daniel, bare feet??? Daniel, Daniel, Daniel (hey my 24 year son's name is Daniel....he if did what you do I'd do the mother thing and yell at him) Eye's are very precious, couldn't realize life without them, but feet are too...get your shoes on. Take care you guys, Cindy PS I'm kinda tired today so I'm on the computer alot, sorry for taking so much air time. > > > >Deb twistes the bytes to say: > > Deb> bead of solder on it runnign around when sure enough it sprung at me and I go > Deb> hot solder and flux flung into my eye. TALK about being scared!! turned out > Deb> I was pretty lucky. I flushed it imediatly with water, and pulled out a piece > Deb> of solder that must have cooled when it hit my eye, it was now a fat needle > Deb> shape. turns out I burned the inside of the corner of my eye, tear ducts > Deb> seem to be working though (thank GOD) I am using antibiotic cream now and its > Deb> doing much better but you won't see me without goggles now!!!! I have about 5 > Deb> pair > >Thanks God it was not too serious. > >Almost from the beginning, I noticed that trapped flux under the >solder starts to boil and it tends to jump in small balls of >solder. Since, I don't let myself work without the goggles. > >I burn my fingers frequently, I work bear-footed hence I get glass >slivers inserted into my feet once in a while that I have to remove >with a needle. I can live with those --not that I like them, >though... but my eyes... those are too precious. > >I hope you recover quickly and it does not leave any trace behind. > >-- >Daniel M. German "There is no national science as > there is no national multiplication table; > Anton Chekov -> what is national is no longer science." >http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html >dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 16:25:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 15:14:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Advertising on bungi (was re-post on grinders) Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:11:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.141126.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Elisabeth in the UK: >Shouldnt we all keep general sales pitches off bungi and send them to th= e individual who might be interested rather than the whole group?< Excellent point. Let's all stick to this rule and everyone will win! Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 17:19:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 15:59:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: goggles/tools Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:11:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.141134.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Deb: >pulled out a piece of solder that must have cooled when it hit my eye, it was now a fat need= le shape. turns out I burned the inside of the corner of my eye, tear duct= s seem to be working though (thank GOD) I am using antibiotic cream now an= d its doing much better but you won't see me without goggles now!!!!< Yikes! Scared me into believing! Hope all is going well! Christie A. Wood ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 17:42:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 16:36:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE:LEAD CASTINGS Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:35:52 -0700 Message-ID: <199805042335.QAA10444@norm.island.net> Precedence: bulk >I have done a few lead castings:angels,butterfly's,butterfly lady ect. Does >anyone have tips for soldering wings ect to bodies; seems to take forever & so >hard not to touch hooks and melt them off. I've been told the one before >applying patina to wash in soapy amonia solution for the patina to take >better. I have purchased some monster metal dragons also which I plan to >work on fairly soon. > NEW LURKER, HOBBIEST HERE FROM WISCONSIN. Karlene Hill :>) Hi Karlene, and welcome to the group. I like to use a short piece of copper wire soldered to the wing first,and then solder the other end to the body of the cast item. It's stronger than solder alone...provides a great anchor, and avoids some of the ugly solder buildup I've seen on jobs I've repaired. Cheers Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 17:44:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 17:05:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: goggles/tools Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:04:09 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.049.0> Precedence: bulk Dang Deb !!! <<< Well I had a goodbead of solder on it runnign around when sure enough it sprung at me and I got hot solder and flux flung into my eye. TALK about being scared!! turned out I was pretty lucky. I flushed it imediatly with water, and pulled out a piece of solder that must have cooled when it hit my eye, it was now a fat needle shape. turns out I burned the inside of the corner of my eye, tear ducts seem to be working though (thankGOD)>>> I always wear my safety glasses when I'm using the ol grinder, but I never have while soldering!! I will from now on. I have a lovely scar on my arm from where I laid it on top of a hot solder blob. Looks like a cigarette burn. Thing about solder burns, it sticks to you till it cools.(BIG OUCHY) Keep on grindin' Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 18:14:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 17:42:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead and funny stuff Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805050040.RAA29434@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >To: "Daniel M. German" >From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) >Subject: Re: lead and funny stuff > >> > >> Barefoot Daniel said: > >>I grew up playing with lead pencils (lead instead of graphite), I ate >>in clay pottery that contained lead, and I breathed in at atmosphere >>full of lead --sideproduct of lead-loaded gasoline. I still feel smart >>:) I even played with mercury with my hands! > >>Yo, Daniel...I remember as as child, my Dad got mercury poisoning...He shook on the couch for the whole weekend!!!! Not pretty, me I thought he was dying!! >> >>Daniel tells the future: >> We only need a scary story in CNN the Post or the >>Times or a child that used to lick his home stained-windows and did >>not pass second grade. >> >>I know this isn't suppose to be funny, but licked the stained glass window and didn't pass grade two. I can't help it I'm laughing too much to type!!!~ >> >>(thanks God I am one of those "cheap overseas" stained >>glass workers :) . >> >Daniel, will you cut it out!!!!! I can't laugh any more!!!! >> > >Sorry guys, this is too funny.... I just have to share in "Daniel's humor"!!! >Great chuckles for the day. >It would be sad though, and I have seen potters use those labels concerning lead in glazes that they have used. >Smiles,Cindy >> >> >> >> >>-- >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 18:44:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 18:04:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover From: "Laurean E. Clover" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: goggles/tools Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 20:01:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May4.13115.0> References: <<1998May5.049.0>> Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool Precedence: bulk While on the subject of solder. I saw an ad for cored wire solder. Any one ever try it? I saw it in the harbor freight catalog. I am familiar with cored wire for welding ( I went to welding school ) and have a nice scar on my arm from dealing with it. The cored wire has the flux in the middle, so it would eliminate the need for liquid flux. Sounds great to me! Laurean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 19:45:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 19:02:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stepping stones Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 21:59:56 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.15956.0> Precedence: bulk I was doing some reading awhile ago in the latest issue of Glass Craftman (April/May). They suggested sinking glass may result from to much tapping.. They gave suggestions on how to fix the problem to save the piece... Oh and of course they raved and raved about DiamondCrete... Using DiamondCrete one would have to charge a fortune for stone... What are some of you getting for stones? Size + pieces = cost? The Puzz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 20:17:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 19:36:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: P D RUSS To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hand tools and very off glass request Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:35:10 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.23510.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-04 09:30:37 EDT, you write: << My 98 year old mother, who lives w/me, fell last week and broke her hip and back. She has had surgery to reduce the fracture but must wear a brace that she swears is a torture devise someone dreamed up. She is in Physical Therapy and doing well but she could sure use some extra prayers and good thoughts sent her way. Thank you to anyone so inclined. Nelda >> I'll light a candle for her and you. My husband's grandmother is 96 and still lives alone. I worry about her all the time. But she won't live with any of the family. Dianne >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 20:46:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 19:56:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: oregontrail.net!dterry From: "Douglas R Terry" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: test Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:54:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May4.125450.0> Precedence: bulk new mail program trying to get set sorry doug terry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 21:05:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 19:57:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: P D RUSS To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: goggles/tools Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:55:35 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.25535.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-04 13:30:19 EDT, you write: << turns out I burned the inside of the corner of my eye, tear ducts seem to be working though (thank GOD) I am using antibiotic cream now and its doing much better but you won't see me without goggles now!!!! I have about 5 pair deb >> I hope you are OK. I had a paper cut on the cornea of my eye several years ago. And was very afraid it would permanently damage my eye but it didn't. But for a while I had a line across my vision like bifocals. Dianne >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 21:14:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 19:59:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: DMR74@aol.com Subject: Re: goggles/tools Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:22:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.182233.0> References: <<1998May4.154322.0>> Precedence: bulk Deb, For holding stuff you should get some hemostat clamps like they use in surgery. They have a fine tip with little teeth inside and they lock on so you don't have to hold them shut. Great for soldering on tiny loops and wires. We even sell them in our shop! Not sure but you may find them at radio shack, certainly at a surgical supply outlet. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com Well my pliers that I hold them with were getting >annoying, they were cruded over and not oening and closing well so I >asked >hubby for like an alligator clip with a handle that wouldn't get hot. > He >brought me a clip like from the battery charger, looked good but it >had no >teeth. It seemed to work but the halo kept bouncing out. Well I had a >good >bead of solder on it runnign around when sure enough it sprung at me >and I go >hot solder and flux flung into my eye. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 21:25:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 20:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Laurean E. Clover" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: cored solder Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:03:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May4.1332.0> Precedence: bulk A million years or so ago when I started in this endeavor. I too got catalogs that advertised cored solders and "cheap solder prices".... IMHO one should use only "assay certified" solder. Sometimes "cheap" solder becomes available and with no certification it can have any contents (old batteries, contaminated lead and so on) as well as harmful stuff. I could not get it to melt. Brand name solders over the years have proved to be consistent. enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 21:31:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 20:40:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Classydad From: Classydad To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Temporarily off list Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:40:34 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.34034.0> Precedence: bulk Please take me off the list temporarily. Thanks. Classydad@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 21:45:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 20:47:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gold tone patina finish Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 23:45:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.194547.0> References: <<1998Apr27.184314.0>> Precedence: bulk Thanks to all of you that replied. Can't believe so many of you took the time to help a beginner . I fell so fortunate that I found such a great group, that is so willing to share their knowledge. My patina came out wonderful!! My lamp is hung and I still can't believe I really made it. VBG Goldpaws Goldpaws wrote: Snip Snip > I need advice on how to get a gold tone finish on my Impatience with > filigree lamp shade. > What I am looking for is a gold or brass finish. > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 22:01:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 20:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4 From: Beveler 4 To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Scratches in Crystal Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:26:58 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.32658.0> Precedence: bulk My .02 worth on this subject is that cerium oxide being a chemical in powder form when mixed with water is what I and Bob use to polish out bevels.Cerium Oxide is slightly acidic,using it with a felt wheel is both a physical and a chemical process. In using CO you are actually scratching the glass (there is also a chemical removal of glass that is also going on in this process) but the object is to make the scratches finer and finer until, all but examination under a microscope would reveal the minute scratches. To accomplish this on crystal you must use very fine CO (Italian I have found to be the best) and yes it is possible to remove a very fine scratch at least to the point that it is not quite so noticable.Cerium Oxide comes in many different grades available through Distributors such as Somaca in Chicago,IL(800-323-9200)and another is Optical Manufacturers International Ltd. Anchor Rock Industrial Plaza 119W 61st St. Westmont IL 60559 Sorry I don't have their phone # off hand. These Co.'s should be able to lead you in the right direction as far as dealing with crystal, hope that this helps you maybe if not immediatly sometime in the future. Beveler4@aol.com(Stan) P.S. A good CO to try might be Lensmax"A" This is a very fine Italian CO ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 22:17:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 20:38:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca Subject: Re: Stepping stones Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:24:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.182450.0> References: <<199805041505.IAA21893@mail1.bctel.ca>> Precedence: bulk Don't know if this might be your [problem, but in an article I just read they claimed that they had that problem because they shook the piece too hard or too much trying to remove the air bubbles. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Mon, 4 May 1998 08:09:07 +0000 tuka@bc.sympatico.ca writes: >I have a recurring problem with stepping stones. Hope someone can >tell me what I'm doing wrong. > >Almost every stone I make, at least one piece of glass "sinks" into >the concrete. I make sure the glass is stuck to the contact paper >really well, try to get the concrete mix not too wet, and it still >happens. > >At a friend's suggestion, I tried sticking the glass to the contact >paper with silicon. That works, but scraping off the silicon >afterwards is a major pain. > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 22:23:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 21:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Odyssey Forms Rental Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 00:02:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.20223.0> Precedence: bulk Is there any place that Odyssey forms can be rented from? TIA Goldpaws ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 4 22:43:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 4 May 1998 22:20:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: charles@warner-criv.com Subject: Re: Grinders: Which one to buy? Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:54:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May4.185431.0> References: <<01bd7757$4dd05180$0f01a8c0@charles1>> Precedence: bulk Charles, I guess if you haven't been through it, that might seem like a subtle difference, but there is a BIG difference between a machine being Underwriters Laboratory approved and just made with approved parts. Years ago I worked as a production supervisor/quality control guy at a large commercial Tiffany lighting and chandelier manufacturer. Every fixture was made with all UL approved parts, but that was just the beginning. Every different design we came up with had to be tested rigorously with thermocouples placed in various locations to ensure that ventilation was proper, as well as structural concerns and assembly procedures to ensure that the designs did not require wires to pass through places where they might get pinched and short out etc., etc. Furthermore we were frequently subject to surprise inspections where the inspector would disassemble fixtures on the assembly line to see if each socket was wired with the special "Underwriters Knot", etc. And of course an approved part is approved for a particular use, but what assurance do you have that it is being used for it's approved purpose? Tons of designs for these fixtures made with all approved parts did not pass muster with the Underwriters Laboratory inspectors. (Orignially founded by the insurance industry to reduce the number of loss claims they had to pay on.) Also a couple of years ago, I wanted to include prewired kits with some of our patterns. I suppose I should have known better, but I contacted UL to see if there were any basic designs that I could use that would not require testing to keep the costs within reason, but no dice. (So as you can see we offer no pre-wired kits.) To earn that label every product must be tested. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Mon, 4 May 1998 08:22:28 -0400 "Charles Warner" writes: >>Also, unless things have changed or I'm just plain mistaken, for >years it >>has been my understanding that the Glastar was UL approved and the >>Inland machines were not. If I'm going to stick my hands into water >on >>an electric appliance, I'd like to know that someone's checked it >out. >>Feel free to toast me if I'm wrong about this one. > > >Not wrong but there is a subtle difference. Components of the Inland >machine are UL approved, the machine as a unit is not. United >Laboratories >(UL) is an independent U.S. company which approves the item itself >based on >U.S. requirements, but more importantly approves the processes and >testing >processes used in the manufacture of the unit. > >I don't believe a distributor or retailer would knowingly sell a >product >that is unsafe. > >BTW last week one of our customers told us the Glastar grinder they >purchased from us shocked them... even UL approved items can be >faulty. > >Charles Warner >Warner-Crivellaro > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 04:33:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 04:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: dodgestudio@juno.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stepping stones Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:08:07 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.1187.0> Precedence: bulk Yepper yepper same article i suspect, got my copy of GC at Hastings... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 04:50:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 04:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Crashing Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:16:34 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.111634.0> Precedence: bulk What the heck are you talking about? How can I make you crash...? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 05:04:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 04:04:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: pkelly@n-link.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stepping stones Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:02:59 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.11259.0> Precedence: bulk Ok Patrick Just what do you mean by my bio ???? What my life story or the fact that what i know of stained glass is self taught... In either case there is not much to telllllll...:) The Puzz >^..^< PS. By the way kitties scratch when wiskers are pulled ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 05:08:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 04:35:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: goggles/tools Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:33:48 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.113348.0> Precedence: bulk How many Suzans do we have here:) ME ME ME im a SUZAN!!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 06:32:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 06:00:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!MEKoehl From: MEKoehl To: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stepping stones Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:00:24 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.13024.0> Precedence: bulk I have had the same problem along with smaller pieces shifting. The last stone I made I used rubber cement to hold the small pieces in place on the contact paper. When I turned out the stone nothing had shifted and the cement just pulls off with a little finger rubbing (or you could use a rubber cement eraser). Instead of tapping the poured stone to release air bubbles - again fear of shifting pieces - I took my small hand held massager and put it on low and held it against the rim of the form, working around. It worked great! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 06:55:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 06:27:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!artglass From: "Dianne G. Maddison" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: grinder shorts and feet Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:22:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May5.32259.0> Organization: The Ivory Express Precedence: bulk Hi All, Someone recently said they had been shocked by their grinder and many of you responded about a short in the grinder and I totally agree. Please don't use it. I had a friend who was shocked by her grinder and it knocked her across the room. Now, what I was really writing about was the fact that you were padding around in your bare feet. That made my hair stand on end and I wasn't even using electricity. On my safety sheet, that I give my students, I advise against sandals and other open shoes. I cringe to think of shards of glass getting into the feet, not to mention what could happen to a foot if a piece of glass fell on it. Just an observation. Have a good one. Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 07:06:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 06:31:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: indiana.edu!dfdavis From: donald f davis To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grinders: shocking Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:31:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1998May5.33132.0> References: <<199805030000.RAA08504@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk One quick thing to make sure of..... sometimes when outlets get wired by(who knows) the black and white wires get reversed on the back of the outlet. This can make things feel a little shocking. Most new equipment only has two wire plug and no ground wire attached. If that is the case the problem should be looked at by an electrician. Better to be safe than sorry. Don..... On Sat, 2 May 1998, Cindy Pesonen wrote: > > > > > >> > >Mike said: > > the switch can get gummed up and short out. > >Hi Mike, > My grinder was been shocking me for awhile, seems to be bad when my hands > are wet and go to touch it. Hmmm, can I fix this problem? > Thanks in advance, Cindy > > > > > >-- > > > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 07:30:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 06:55:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!nancyclayb From: Nancy Bean To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Work away from workbench Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:49:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May5.14942.0> Organization: Daltile Precedence: bulk Hi, I am a beginner and will take a beginner's lesson in a week. My question is, can anything having to do with stained glass work, be done away from your primary workbench area? In other words, any busy work you could take with you, that you could do without all the numerous tools? Hope this isn't a dumb question!. Thanks, Nancy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 07:35:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 07:22:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Heavy metal hazards, was Re: Lead free solder Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:19:23 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.141923.0> Precedence: bulk charlie sez: > [...] a whole rack of toothbrush holders, sides and top made > out of stained glass and bevels, all SOLDERED (poorly > done, and all corroded already) together. even if this > was lead-free solder, does anyone else think this is a > bad thing waiting to happen? Yup, at least potentially... My educational background is in chemistry and chemical engineering, and I spent a couple of former lives working in the "metals" industry, including a stint in a company that makes catalytic converters for cars and was trying to develop one for diesel engines. What I learned there about heavy metals is enough to curl anyone's hair. Those things are nasty in ways a lot of people don't even think about. We all hear about poisoning and cancer, but not very many people know that a lot of heavy metal oxides/salts are also potent allergy triggers. The aforementioned company wouldn't even hire anyone who didn't pass allergy testing. One guy I worked with had developed a whole mess of severe allergies and sensitivities, not only to the metals and other "chemicals" but to all sorts of foods and other "natural" stuff too - after he'd worked with the stuff every day for 15 years without apparent ill effect, his system just finally decided it had "had too much." The hell of it is, other people I worked with (there and elsewhere) took a kind of perverse pride in the quarter-inch thick layer of dust in various out- of-the-way parts of the building. Guys used to shop-vac the lab and raise huge clouds of nasty dust. And I got no end of razzin' whenever I got out the goggles and respirator (and a couple of times even a wet bandana when I couldn't find a respirator) and occasionally the Tyvek suit... But for all that I squirm when I see potentially hazardous stuff on the market (and yes, I do think that we who know the hazards have a responsibility to point out things like that... while being aware that we may have to settle for letting a word to the wise be sufficient), I squirm just as much when somebody takes an extreme case like my former coworker (who worked in a horrendously cruddy environment, for a rather negligent employer, and wasn't overly diligent about using protective gear - that stuff was for sissies, y'see) and decides that *everyone's* in imminent danger of an immune-system blowout or whatever. The fact is, almost anything can be handled relatively safely if you're willing to understand it, use it properly, and take sensible precautions. And we who work with lead, solder, etc. safely on a regular basis can educate the public by our own example as well as by continuing to politely point out the "real facts" about potential hazards (an off-the-subject f'rinstance: my ex used to get really crazy about my driving into Philadelphia, and I finally got fed up and reminded him that a million Philadelphians a day *don't* get shot, mugged, stabbed, etc.) - and a well-placed "not for use with food" or "keep out of reach of small children" is always in order (and IMHO, any kid young enough to want to put a stained-glass piece in their mouth is running as much risk of the glass breaking and cutting them if they drop it as of poisoning). I think I'll stop right here and now before I go off on a tirade about the level of scientific ignorance and alarmism, and the ridiculous notion that "people need to be protected from their own irresponsibility" in the world today... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 08:11:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 07:03:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: resin core solder?? Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805051400.HAA24313@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > >Hi Laurean, If it's the same stuff I've tried in the long time past.. don't use it, the resin core splatters on the glass and hardens like super glue. (It was called resin core solder) It ends up more of a mess than flux. Smiles,Cindy Laurean had said; > >While on the subject of solder. I saw an ad for cored wire solder. >Any one ever try it? I saw it in the harbor freight catalog. > >I am familiar with cored wire for welding ( I went to welding school ) >and have a nice scar on my arm from dealing with it. The cored wire >has the flux in the middle, so it would eliminate the need for liquid >flux. Sounds great to me! > >Laurean >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 08:40:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 07:37:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:goggles/tools Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:51:11 -0400 Message-ID: <199805051151.HAA04148@ppp13.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805031744.NAA00281@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Hi Don, Don McDonald twistes the bytes to say: Don> EGADS! I could never go in my glass shop without shoes! I hope you Don> keep your tetanus booster up to date (every two years), Daniel. I guess I'll bore everybody with my story... I live in an apartment which I share with a roommate. My shop doubles as a living/dining room. In fact, the same table triples as: a stain glass worktable, a sawing table and a electrician/electronics table. In essence, it is a hobby table with a collection of boxes underneath were I store all my different tools for my different hobbies. I have experience with "multi-purpose" rooms. When I used to live by myself my living room used to double as a darkroom. The room has hardwood (a bless!, I can't image what would I do if it was carpet). I tent to be very, very careful when I cut glass and I clean up as well as I can (I guess I have to be more pernicious against those tiny slivers). The Canadians have peculiar habits. One of them is to remove their shoes when the step into a home. I got hooked to it and I remove not only shoes but socks also when I am at my place. Fortunately my roommate does use slippers, otherwise I'd cut no glass :) I'd be more careful with glass. I broom and mop everything. I guess I'll have to use the vacuum cleaner --I just have some aversion to the latter. Red glass is particularly bad. It tends to make very sharp slivers. And it looks like blood hence it is harder to remove! :) >> I burn my fingers frequently, I work bear-footed hence I get glass >> slivers inserted into my feet once in a while that I have to remove >> with a needle. I can live with those --not that I like them, >> though... but my eyes... those are too precious. -- Daniel M. German "It is a kind of spiritual snobbery Albert Camus -> to think one can be happy without money." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 09:07:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 08:00:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Nancy Bean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Work away from workbench Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 10:58:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.65814.0> References: <<1998May5.14942.0>> Precedence: bulk Nancy Bean wrote: > > Hi, I am a beginner and will take a beginner's lesson in a week. My > question is, can anything having to do with stained glass work, be done > away from your primary workbench area? In other words, any busy work you > could take with you, that you could do without all the numerous tools? > > Hope this isn't a dumb question!. > Thanks, Nancy > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, there's simply sketching (for the next project). and i suppose there is foiling. but you'll need a place for the foil scraps. and that's about it... that i can think of. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 09:38:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 08:28:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:Work away from workbench Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:26:08 -0400 Message-ID: <199805051526.LAA04358@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998May5.14942.0>> Precedence: bulk Nancy Bean twistes the bytes to say: Nancy> Hi, I am a beginner and will take a beginner's lesson in a week. = My=20 Nancy> question is, can anything having to do with stained glass work, b= e done=20 Nancy> away from your primary workbench area? In other words, any busy w= ork you=20 Nancy> could take with you, that you could do without all the numerous t= ools?=20 I just finished a course, and here is my view. I ride the bus. Our classes were in a college classroom, hence no place for storage.=20 I carried everything in a backpack (heavy, though, especially the glass) and I ha to take this into consideration when I decided what my projects were going to be: my panel was small; then I decided for a vase and a lamp, both transportable by foot. If you buy the cutter and the pliers, you can cut glass at home. If you grind it at your course location, you can then foil it at home. If you buy an iron you can solder at home. It basically depends on how much you want to invest in tools. Foiling takes a lot of time (I am assembling a 8 inches lamp with 200 pieces and foiling is just a pain I'd rather avoid :) and if you do it at home you'll be more productive during the class. I wonder if those foiling marverls actually work and improve one's productivity. Somebody who wants to comment on it? Which ones are better? You can do a lot with a marker, a ruler a cutter, grozing pliers, and a soldering gun. Then you can start buying other tools. In my order of relevance: a good cutter, a grinder, running pliers. Then you will move into the luxury items market, in which dealers believe that we are a huge pile of money ready to exploit. Nancy> Hope this isn't a dumb question!. Nancy> Thanks, Nancy Nancy> ---- Nancy> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com Nancy> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Nancy> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Daniel M. German "A coin symbolizes our free will" El Zah=EDr, Jorge Luis Borges http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca =20 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 09:45:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 08:31:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: Nancy Bean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Work away from workbench Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 11:29:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.72949.0> References: <<1998May5.14942.0>> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk The first thing that comes to mind is the dreaded, mindnumbing - FOILING Nancy Bean wrote: > Hi, I am a beginner and will take a beginner's lesson in a week. My > question is, can anything having to do with stained glass work, be done > away from your primary workbench area? In other words, any busy work you > could take with you, that you could do without all the numerous tools? > > Hope this isn't a dumb question!. > Thanks, Nancy > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 10:13:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 08:06:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Work away from workbench Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:05:45 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Hi, I am a beginner and will take a beginner's lesson in a week. My question is, can anything having to do with stained glass work, be done away from your primary workbench area? In other words, any busy work you could take with you, that you could do without all the numerous tools? Hope this isn't a dumb question!. --------------- Nancy: My day job is working with graduate students. When they ask if they can ask a dumb question I usually respond "you just did!" and then reassure them that I have plenty of dumb answers.... But yours doesn't qualify. Although there are sure to be others (and the bungi folks are likely to provide them), the two "portable" glass steps that readily come to mind are: 1) drawing and cutting of patterns and b) foiling. I do the former at work (ONLY during lunch time ) and the latter in front of the TV. Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 10:54:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 10:09:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: foiling pros and cons Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:08:18 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.17818.0> Precedence: bulk I kind of think that taking my foiling with me away from the work area is about the only good thing I can say about foiling. I actually manage to get caught up in tv or conversation and voila all that tedium is completed. I guess I have a mean streak of attention deficit disorder somewhere in me. All I need is my foil, my fid, exacto knife and the glass...... Oh once my dog ate a piece of that long curly paper that backs the foil.......I found this out only because of the bizarreness it caused when it came out........ Maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 11:55:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 10:51:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Last word..as a Teacher... Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 01:40:32 +0000 Message-ID: <199804300040.BAA30740@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Deb, I replied to you off-group. I didn't think that this was a discussion worthy to pursue in public You referred vaguely to people who felt like you but were too timid to put their voice forward. Don't fear. I am known to keep a liberal and open house...... I mean what I say... and say what I mean If I had wished to address to some obscure "wishy-washy" sentiment of "The Teacher Within", I would have asked for it. There are many professional teachers amongst our Bungi-People, hence my very first sentence; my Opening Statement was specifically addressed to THEM. I joined Bungi -perhaps 4-5 months after it first got off the ground. I think my record as a "giving" teacher is well recorded. My pride in my students is also well documented I DO know what students want. I am STILL a student myself. I have only taught for about 10 years; each and every course has a waiting list of between 30 - 60 people (... and that is 3 times a year). Some people wait for 2-3 years to get on my courses. So I must be doing something RIGHT...? My problem was - as a teacher - I wish to give my students a rope to be guided by, to roughly follow, to hang on to, but NOT to hang themselves by. I get easily emotionally involved by what my students want to do and achieve. My imagination and sense of adventure is easily fired. But within the structured sense of a Local Government Curriculum, how FAR do I go; where are the borders, where does reason end and fantasy begin. Only OTHER Teachers can help me to answer that question. They have. I was surpised to see your e-mail - initially sent to me direct, now in Bungi-Group. Other Teachers have put their observations and comments to me off-group. In fairness to them, I respond to your public e-mail reluctantly also ON-Group. My language is accurate and focussed. It has to be. My native tongue is NOT English. So I have to think TWICE about each word. Occasionally I think, it would benefit the English-speaking people to give a bit more thought to what they say -, especially if it appears in print...... For my sins, I am also a trained research linguist, which perhaps adds to my somewhat analytic approach to the written and spoken word..... I am deeply and emotionally involved in bringing forth a new generation of professional stained glass Artists, give to them what I was taught, show them what I myself feel, get them involved in solving problems, looking after them so that they do not commit artistic suicide, yet trying to keep a balance, integrety to myself at the same time. Why do I do it? Because it's good news to stained glass awareness and business in the long run. It might even rub off on to me and increase my own order book............. My attitude & philosphy is well-recorded and well-known. If you wish to take further issue about my approach, philosophy or language, please do so. But perhaps it would be more appriate to do so OFF-Group. I apologize to ALL for below long repeat, which was intended and addressed OFF-Group (by me - anyway. I feel embarrassed that this should be dragged into the Group) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK In a message dated 98-04-28 19:59:01 EDT, you write: > "May I address the Teachers amongst you..." > Unquote. When I read this I was believeing that you were asking All of us to respond as the Teachers within our personas, maybe it is our wording as I would have said, if I only wanted to address professional teachers, 'may I address teachers on this group only'. And being on an open group I would have thought that you might want honest oppinions, not just a narrow view of your problem and solution. I felt that maybe you could be more open to the artistic growth in your student, that of exploreing their ablities and reaching for more. If a student, who we all are, doesn't strive for more then we can't grow and reach higher and higher. I felt like maybe you were being narrow minded and not looking at it from your students view. I also thought that you were more open to other points of view, I thought that I learned that about you, and maybe factor in other views to help in your problem. To me that's what problem solving involves, listening to all sides and coming to a compromise. Maybe my wording is not delicate, that is not me, but I thought more of you as a person open for suggestions and views. When you stated your problem I put myself in the students shoes and answered. That is the way the teacher in me tries to do things. I still have both of your letters, the first and your answer to some of the replies so I don't need to check the archives. I still don't know what point I missed. deb .....Elisabeth wrote and I'm not sure whether it was private mail or bungi: I am a bit surprised how this e-mail came about.... I don't normally get drawn into a pointless argument and rarely do I rise to provocation. But I don't like to be misquoted and then have a tirade based on a misunderstanding. When I raised the subject of my particular problem, in my e-mail dated 20th April at 02.04 am, I stated quite specifically in my opening statement QUOTE: "May I address the Teachers amongst you..." Unquote. Check it out for yourself. (Either in Bungi archives, or I can re-send you my original e-mail off-group). It pays occasionally to read a message thoroughly, before jumping to conclusions; as my old boss used to say: "The Devil Sits In the Details" There are not only newbies, beginners and hobbyists on this list, and the odd one out with an axe to grind, but ALSO professionals and teachers. Which is precisely why I qualified my request. I have had loads of e-mails, suggestions, recommendations and constructive ideas (and funny sympathetic thoughts) from people at Bungi, including from Australia. I have only had one other person telling me what a "cruel" person I am, but who very quickly realized exactly what I am about and sent me the most charming and irresistable "mea culpa" e-mail. If anyone wants to "flame" me for anything I say, then I am only a button away, no lack of courage or timidity need to stand in the way. Nobody needs to be afraid. I operate an Open House, as most Bunginians know. I do now have the suggestions and advise I needed, from the people able and qualified to give it. Can we now lay this matter to rest. I'd much rather hear the Adventures of Ray....;-) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ...As a Teacher... Conclusion, not yet Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:35:40 EDT In a message dated 98-04-20 21:58:18 EDT, you write: > ..And I was addressing myself to the Teachers amongst us. I am very > well aware what a Learner wants.... I am still a Learner myself.... > even after 25 years.... As I said before, one treads a fine line.... Well your first letter didn't address JUST the teachers amongst us, it seems you addressed to ALL of bungi for OUR oppinions. I gave mine and I think others felt the same way but were afraid to say so. > Deb...I think you missed the point somewhere. I hope you don't mind > me saying that. SWOOSH !! I guess I must have. deb who thought about just going back to lurk but wants to show others that we are not forced to lurk just because we think others will not like our oppinions and make us feel inferior because oppinions are what most of us will learn by ---- ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 12:20:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 11:07:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: B J Snell To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Work away from workbench Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 14:11:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980505141151.006d670c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> References: <<1998May5.14942.0>> Precedence: bulk Seems there is a couple of things that you can do..... Numbering your patterns, placing arrows on the pieces of the pattern to indicate glass grain direction, cutting out patterns, foiling. The TV usually keeps me company when i am doing these things.. Barbara At 08:49 AM 5/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, I am a beginner and will take a beginner's lesson in a week. My >question is, can anything having to do with stained glass work, be done >away from your primary workbench area? In other words, any busy work you >could take with you, that you could do without all the numerous tools? > >Hope this isn't a dumb question!. >Thanks, Nancy >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >
0000,0000,8080~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 8080,0000,0000Barbara J. Snell Manager, Balch Dining Cornell University
0000,0000,8080 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 12:40:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 11:54:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: goggles/tools Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:47:43 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.184743.0> Precedence: bulk To all who have responded in my dumb and scary escapades of non-safety,on and off list, thank you for your concern. My eye is much better now, they say your eye heals very fast. Let me point out again through my posting this injury was more to help protect your eyes . I made a dumb mistake and learn from mine don't wait for it to happen to you. In answer to one of the questions about wearing regular glasses.... I have maybe 5 or 6 pairs of goggles some look like regular glasses but plastic, others have sheilding of some kind on the bottom and sides and even the top on one pair. Wearing some of the less protective ones I have felt glass hit me just below the eye and have decided these were NOT good. Also if you can mold them to fit your eyes or face better like heating them and reshapeing them I suggest that you do. I think luck has a lot to do with not getting more injuries, so lets stop trying to be lucky and be SAFE. (boy can I preach after all this LOL) Thank you for the idea of hemostats (forceps as one called them) I have them in a few sizes and will have one on each workbench from now on. Do they get hot quickly? can I insulate them somehow? I have these Angels I've been makeing for the church and I have a lot of filigrees to solder so I try to do it all at the same time before I start assembly. as a small after injury note: I wore a patch on my eye for a few days and decided to try to solder some more the other nite..... it doesn't work.... I almost tried to solder my fingers a few times. ( guess its depth perception I was missing and couldnt tell where I was aiming) So I gave up and will start back after eye is uncovered and be safer. I'm sure there are a few of the group out there that have had to learn to deal with one eye or partial blindness and I am impressed, hopefully I won't have to learn to deal with that for a while. deb thanks Glenna Daniel M. German Margery Elsie Susan Dianne >^..^< Gary Dodge Laurean Christie A. Wood Cindy LuAnn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 12:56:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 11:54:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: nancyclayb@erols.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Work away from workbench Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:47:23 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.184723.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-05 10:30:44 EDT, you write: > In other words, any busy work you > could take with you, that you could do without all the numerous tools? > I'm sure you have gotten numerous posts on this one. We all have sat down at the boob tube and done foil work, pattern cutting is another and of course if you decide to design patterns you can sit and do that too, or coloring like in a coloring book to decide on color for your project before you even select glass....and there is one or two people who have discribed actually cutting all the glass and then taking them to another state to finish up the work. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 13:08:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 11:55:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Diane Manchester/ want your e-mail address have buyer? for house Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:47:44 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.184744.0> Precedence: bulk sorry to do this but it was the easiest way to find Diane's e mail address Diane, I read your plug about your house for sale might just be a good one, my dad is in Boca today looking for a house. deb e-mail me privately ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 13:27:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 12:00:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Work away from workbench Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:59:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.105914.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Nancy Bean >In other words, any busy work you = could take with you, that you could do without all the numerous tools?< Foiling can be done in front of the TV or anywhere else you desire! Same for pattern cutting. Not a dumb question at all! Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 13:30:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 12:01:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re:more scary stuff on lead Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:58:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.105842.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Daniel M. German" >Anybody out there who only uses lead-free solder as an ethical decision? Just curious...< If I know it is going into a child's room or will be handled by children, I use lead-free solder. Otherwise, it's regular ole 60/40 for me. But now you've got me thinking that I should put a "This product contains Lead" sticker on my work. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 13:49:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 12:01:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Stepping stones Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:58:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.105856.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by PUZZY KATZ >What are some of you getting for stones? Size + pieces =3D cost? < 8 inch square with standard pattern =3D $35.00 8 inch square custom pattern =3D $50.00 14 inch round with standard pattern =3D $65.00 14 inch round with custom pattern =3D $80.00 14 inch round with black iron table stand =3D $85.00 14 inch round custom with black iron table stand =3D $115.00 Hope that helps. Guess you can guess what size molds I own. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 15:02:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:22:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: grinder shorts and feet Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:20:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.13205.0> References: <<1998May5.32259.0>> Precedence: bulk Dianne G. Maddison wrote: > Hi All, > Someone recently said they had been shocked by their grinder and many of > you responded about a short in the grinder and I totally agree. Please > don't use it. ... > I cringe to think of shards of glass getting into the feet, not > to mention what could happen to a foot if a piece of glass fell on it. > Just an observation. > Have a good one. > Dianne > 1. To prevent shorting, make sure your grinder isn't sitting in a puddle of water. If your grinder doesn't have feet, lift it up on a couple of strips of wood or the like. Water CAN wick into the motor from below. 2. Yes, wear shoes. Even so, I once dropped a triangle of glass onto my foot and the point cut through the top of my shoes and I had a good cut! Dorothy K PS - Both the bios were empty this week! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 15:27:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:22:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Elaine Subject: Re: Grinders: Glastar pump Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:20:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May5.23201.0> References: <<1998May2.223454.0@?>> Precedence: bulk In message <1998May2.223454.0@?>, Elaine writes >Steve Richard wrote: .............. > problems with the pump on >> the Glastar? It seems to have stopped. Cleaning the passage from the >> circulating pump to the bottom of the vertical channel doesn't seem to >> have helped. The vertical channel is clear. >> Any suggestions on getting the pump to push water to the second story >> again? ............. > >Steve, I should also mention that if you procrastinate on cleaning the >water, there is a tendency for the glass residue to build up under the >impeller, which will cause the impeller to raise up and not be able to >pump water. If this is what is causing your problem: If you lift the >impeller and force water into that section under the impeller to clean >out the glass residue, then reseat the impeller it should work just fine >- that is, if this is what is causing your problem. Yep. this is what was causing the problem. It nvere occured to me that the plastic sleeve could be so easilly moved up and down the shaft below the grinding bit. Thanks a lot Elaine. Steve -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 15:46:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:33:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Carol Swann" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE:LEAD CASTINGS Date: Tue, 5 May 98 17:24:48 -0400 Message-ID: <199805052122.RAA24372@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Karlene said: >>I have done a few lead castings:angels,butterfly's,butterfly lady ect. Does >>anyone have tips for soldering wings ect to bodies; seems to take forever & so >>hard not to touch hooks and melt them off. Carol responded: I like to use a short piece of copper >wire soldered to the wing first,and then solder the other end to the body of >the cast item. It's stronger than solder alone...provides a great anchor, >and avoids some of the ugly solder buildup I've seen on jobs I've repaired. Suzanne adds: Carol, thanks for your tip about the copper wire. I never did hear from Creative Castings so I went ahead and "winged it" for the Butterfly Lady. I used a couple pieces of wire and gave the top wings a "back brace" and then soldered them onto the casting. The bottom wings seemed to overlap the top wings a bit, so I used another couple pieces of wire to give them more strength, and tacked them a few places to the top wings. She turned out beautiful! And not much too solder buildup. Thanks again. Karlene, as far as not melting the little hooks, I've gone that too and guess you just have to be really careful. One of my students watched her butterfly body just melt away before her very eyes. Of course, they're made of lead. Duh! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 16:06:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:34:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: LEAD CASTINGS Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:30:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.133039.0> References: <<199805042102.RAA25025@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk suzy@comcat.com wrote: > Karlene, I have just now (5:00 p.m. EST) E-mailed Creative Castings at > www.creativecasting.com, for any tips they might have on attaching the > wings to the Butterfly Lady with Scarf. I noticed their wings don't line > up as in the picture on their package. > > If I hear from them, I'll pass it on through Bungi. > > Suzanne Albright > suzy@comcat.com > ---- > Please do, as I was just laying out glass to try one! Dorothy K ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 16:28:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:35:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: k12s.phast.umass.edu!wmagdycz From: Elaine To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinders: Glastar pump Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:35:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May5.103536.0> References: <<2RVJ5AABK4T1Ewzz@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > In message <1998May2.223454.0@?>, Elaine > writes > >Steve Richard wrote: > .............. > > problems with the pump on > >> the Glastar? It seems to have stopped. Cleaning the passage from the > >> circulating pump to the bottom of the vertical channel doesn't seem to > >> have helped. The vertical channel is clear. > >> Any suggestions on getting the pump to push water to the second story > >> again? > ............. > > > >Steve, I should also mention that if you procrastinate on cleaning the > >water, there is a tendency for the glass residue to build up under the > >impeller, which will cause the impeller to raise up and not be able to > >pump water. If this is what is causing your problem: If you lift the > >impeller and force water into that section under the impeller to clean > >out the glass residue, then reseat the impeller it should work just fine > >- that is, if this is what is causing your problem. > > Yep. this is what was causing the problem. It nvere occured to me that > the plastic sleeve could be so easilly moved up and down the shaft below > the grinding bit. > Thanks a lot Elaine. > Steve > > -- > Steve Richard > Verrier Art Glass Ltd > s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk Glad I could help. If you change the water frequently (ugh!), you shouldn't have that problem again. It hasn't happened to me since I discovered what was causing the problem and clean the water more often. Elaine ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 16:37:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 15:14:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: nancyclayb@erols.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Work away from workbench Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:13:50 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.221350.0> Precedence: bulk Hey Im always taking foil and glass to bed with me during a good movie... When the commericals come on my fingers are busy foiling instead of shoving food into my mouth...:) Not as much fun as some of the other things that one does in bed but hey it makes a boring job much more tolerable:) Plus I get to watch a good movie (Probably someone else getting to have fun in bed). Look out if its an action thriller or a scary one lolol:) The Puzz >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 16:50:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 15:19:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: Witchdoc3@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Heavy metal hazards, was Re: Lead free solder Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:19:04 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.22194.0> Precedence: bulk BTW Just what are the systems for lead posioning hmmmmm...? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 16:59:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 15:33:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: goggles/tools Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:31:21 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.223121.0> Precedence: bulk YEAHHHHHH Lets here it for those dinning room workshops.... PUZZ<~~~~Apt. dweller tooo....My residence I become rich on the ole craft circut lolol guess i better plan on staying awhile.. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 17:08:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 15:37:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: gspicer@seaside.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: goggles/tools Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:36:03 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.22363.0> Precedence: bulk Subj: RE: goggles/tools Date: 98-05-05 11:58:50 EDT From: gspicer@seaside.net (Glenn Spicer) To: PUZZYKATZ@aol.com ('PUZZY KATZ') I think that the Idea Katz is that you write to the general bungi about glass or related topics, not this kind of material below. Please keep the "ME ME ME im a SUZAN!!!!----" stuff to personal not general conversation. I recieved four such quips in one batch and if it continues I'm afraid that I (and possibly others, will set their computers to ignore all your letters). I'm sure that you understand that if all the bungi members did this that it would very quickly flood out the glass related topics Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada Man Oh Man Who Pissed in Your Post Toasties this AM.. I was just being friendly.... Puzz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 17:30:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 16:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: toby@northlights.co.uk, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Last word..as a Teacher... Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:10:29 EDT Message-ID: <1998May5.231029.0> Precedence: bulk Just what is artistic suicide...? Hmmmmm an Oxymoron...? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 18:48:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 17:07:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: Witchdoc3@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Heavy metal hazards, was Re: Lead free solder Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:06:00 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.060.0> Precedence: bulk that was supposed to be symptoms of lead posioning OPPPS...Guess I should have been studying my first grade speller. Instead of doing cartwheels in the schoolyard and breaking my arm.... Puzz >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 19:06:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 17:22:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nj1.aae.com!mercedes From: Barb/Joe W To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Mirror Backing?? Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:21:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980505202148.006a85d0@nj1.aae.com> Precedence: bulk Joe, a lurker from NJ, with a question, I have been asked to make a mirror panel, a new type project for me. Do you suggest applying some sort of spray or paint to protect the back surface of the mirror? If so, what do you suggest? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 19:17:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 17:29:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webzone.net!bobg From: "Bob Grimes" To: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Re:more scary stuff on lead Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:16:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May5.141644.0> Precedence: bulk I use lead free solder for things like bird feeder's and items that will be handled by kids.I find thar it's not to hard to work with.To make it easier you just switch to a 800 degree tip on a weller 100watt iron. Stuff works fair.Not quite as good as 63-37 , but you can make it look good. -----Original Message----- From: Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo To: Bungi Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 3:51 PM Subject: Re:more scary stuff on lead >Message text written by "Daniel M. German" >>Anybody out there who only uses lead-free solder as an ethical >decision? Just curious...< > >If I know it is going into a child's room or will be >handled by children, I use lead-free solder. Otherwise, >it's regular ole 60/40 for me. But now you've got me >thinking that I should put a "This product contains >Lead" sticker on my work. > >Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles >4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 19:34:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 17:42:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: foiling pros and cons Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:40:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199805060041.BAA14600@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Maureen, You made me laugh!! That about sums it up about foiling. I compare it to peeling potatoes (which I try never to do, using the excuse of my late father, the potatoes contain the most nourishment in or near the skin, so why peel it off, he said, plopping them into the pan, skin and all!) Since I think 99.9 percent of copper foil we use here in UK is imported from the USA, the brown paper backing (we have - and you probably too) holds some kind of strange dietary fascination for ALL puppies I have had in this household. Absolutely "puppy-heaven" is the wide brocwn paper tape with the shiny, dry, cellulose adhesive you have to wet (often used for sticking the backs onto picture frames......). Since the canine residents of this house have been (and are) of the long-haired, shaggy (and large) variety, it makes a pretty mess not only on "exit", but also of face, nose, moustaches. ...And why do they always grin at you in a silly "tee-hee" fashion when you try to clear up the mess?? Elisabeth in UK (TOBY!! - - Who? What! MEEE?! It wasn't ME!) Maureen wrote: I kind of think that taking my foiling with me away from the work area is about the only good thing I can say about foiling. I actually manage to get caught up in tv or conversation and voila all that tedium is completed. I guess I have a mean streak of attention deficit disorder somewhere in me. All I need is my foil, my fid, exacto knife and the glass...... Oh once my dog ate a piece of that long curly paper that backs the foil.......I found this out only because of the bizarreness it caused when it came out........ ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 19:34:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 17:43:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: bare feet in glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:40:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199805060041.BAA14594@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Don't worry Daniel, The Swedes ALSO take their shoes and socks off indoors. Very civilized, thinks I. In this house, it has an added safety factor, it means that MY feet picks up the glass before the 4-footed residents do. I use a similar approach in my college teaching. I tell all my students that they are in charge of cleaning up after themselves and help each other (at one College, we got "relocated" from one room, because it was carpeted and tiny bits of glass was found in the carpet). I tell my students that it is ME who ultimately "carries the can". After they have left for the day/evening I will go over every surface they have cleaned up "with my bare hands". If I appear the next week heavily covered in bandages - I tell them - it is because I have cut myself on glass they have left behind. I don't mind cutting myself if I can (thus) someone else to be injured. Luckily, my classes and my students are renowned everywhere for their carefulness and meticulousness in cleaning up. So I am proud of them. I will pad about bare-feet in your pad anytime!! On reflection, I am quite glad the hilarious discussion I had with some people OFF-Group last summer, was kept OFF-Group (I might have really disgarced myself !!!) Not only did I work with stained glass bare-foot, but it was so dreadfully hot last summer, that I found myself setting up workspace down the garden, working there at night with NOTHING on!! (I couldn't sleep anyway!) (Thank God I have a secluded garden, bordering onto a field!!!!) Elisabeth in the "nuddy" feverishly involved leading panels in the middle of the night in the middle of the garden, must have been quite a sight!! The jokes I had, don't bear repeating.! Carry on bare-foot Daniel!! One develops thick soles and a unique touch with Mother Earth ;-) And to watch the sun rise is quite a unique experience..... The bare-footed shall inherit the Earth! Take care now. 2-footed Elisabeth 'n 4-footed Toby in UK Hi Don, Don McDonald twistes the bytes to say: Don> EGADS! I could never go in my glass shop without shoes! I hope you Don> keep your tetanus booster up to date (every two years), Daniel. I guess I'll bore everybody with my story... I live in an apartment which I share with a roommate. My shop doubles as a living/dining room. In fact, the same table triples as: a stain glass worktable, a sawing table and a electrician/electronics table. In essence, it is a hobby table with a collection of boxes underneath were I store all my different tools for my different hobbies. I have experience with "multi-purpose" rooms. When I used to live by myself my living room used to double as a darkroom. The room has hardwood (a bless!, I can't image what would I do if it was carpet). I tent to be very, very careful when I cut glass and I clean up as well as I can (I guess I have to be more pernicious against those tiny slivers). The Canadians have peculiar habits. One of them is to remove their shoes when the step into a home. I got hooked to it and I remove not only shoes but socks also when I am at my place. Fortunately my roommate does use slippers, otherwise I'd cut no glass :) I'd be more careful with glass. I broom and mop everything. I guess I'll have to use the vacuum cleaner --I just have some aversion to the latter. Red glass is particularly bad. It tends to make very sharp slivers. And it looks like blood hence it is harder to remove! :) >> I burn my fingers frequently, I work bear-footed hence I get glass >> slivers inserted into my feet once in a while that I have to remove >> with a needle. I can live with those --not that I like them, >> though... but my eyes... those are too precious. -- Daniel M. German "It is a kind of spiritual snobbery Albert Camus -> to think one can be happy without money." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 19:51:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 17:42:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hand tools and very off glass request Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:40:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199805060041.BAA14597@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Nelda, My own grand-mother had an extremely active life, mind and body and lived merrily until she was 104 She often reminded me of the "family motto": -There is only one kind of nobility - that of the mind- Sending you both thoughts of health, sunshie and strength! The Swedish Viking rides again! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK << My 98 year old mother, who lives w/me, fell last week and broke her hip and back. She has had surgery to reduce the fracture but must wear a brace that she swears is a torture devise someone dreamed up. She is in Physical Therapy and doing well but she could sure use some extra prayers and good thoughts sent her way. Thank you to anyone so inclined. Nelda >> I'll light a candle for her and you. My husband's grandmother is 96 and still lives alone. I worry about her all the time. But she won't live with any of the family. Dianne >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 20:24:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 19:14:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: "Daniel M. German" Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re:more scary stuff on lead Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998May5.1281.0> References: <<199805032058.QAA00607@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Hi Daniel: The move to ban leaded stained glass windows was not years ago. It happened right here in the 90's. Fortunately the SG Association was able to calm Congress down to get the sg industry exempt. But consider the liability of suncatchers. Someone from this group was telling about a suncatcher causing a fire. Yes, the liability could be extensive when you consider the chemicals, the medium, soldering iron plus the lead that is used. But as long as everyone observes basic safety factors, we will all survive, i.e., not dumping lead came scraps in the regular trash, providing secondary containment to prevent chemical leakage into ground water, etc. And...it is scary stuff. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 20:41:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 19:16:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Heavy metal hazards, was Re: Lead free solder Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:13:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.18132.0> Precedence: bulk There are some really good articles in the bungi archives on lead poisoning including several from Monona Rossol whose = livelihood is in the occupational health profession and who has written extensively on lead issues in the stained glass industry. You might want to check it out. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 20:56:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 19:16:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: Whispy Blu To: mercedes@nj1.aae.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mirror Backing?? Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:12:38 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.21238.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 5/5/98 9:07:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time, mercedes@nj1.aae.com writes: << applying some sort of spray or paint to protect the back surface of the mirror? >> You can use a product that is specifically for mirror called Mirror Edge Sealant. Some folks also use clear nail polish. The important thing is to put a nice layer on edges and back without getting it on the mirror. Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 21:14:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 19:26:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: PUZZY KATZ Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stepping stones Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998May5.122138.0> References: <<1998May5.1187.0>> Precedence: bulk What does this message mean? On Tue, 5 May 1998, PUZZY KATZ wrote: > Yepper yepper same article i suspect, got my copy of GC at Hastings... > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 21:27:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 19:29:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: snet.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: "'Glass'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD7874.C5665780" Subject: FW: Mail Delivery Problem Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:25:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.182550.0> Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7874.C5665780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Folks, Can someone please tell me why I keep receiving the message below when I try to send a message to the list. Thanks in advance, Tim Byrnes ---------- From: smtp[SMTP:smtp@aol.com] Sent: Monday, May 04, 1998 3:57 PM To: tbyrnes@snet.net Subject: Mail Delivery Problem Sorry tbyrnes@snet.net. Your mail to glasswizrd could not be delivered because glasswizrd is not accepting mail with attachments ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7874.C5665780 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjgCAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ABwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADACAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAF8AAAAAAAAAtTvCwCx3EBqhvAgA KypWwhUAAAAua3jrobvPEZ/kREVTVAAAZIMAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAEdsYXNz AFNNVFAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAAAGds YXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAIAAAAJ0dsYXNzJwACAQswAQAA ABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAA AAAAAsYxAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgBBIABABoAAABGVzogTWFp bCBEZWxpdmVyeSBQcm9ibGVtAM8IAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcFAAUAFgAZADIAAgBCAQEggAMADgAAAM4H BQAFABUAMgAtAAIAVQEBCYABACEAAAAwRTNGMjEyRDVERTREMTExOUZFODQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADu BgEDkAYAtAMAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCAeSFJlni9 AR4AcAABAAAAGgAAAEZXOiBNYWlsIERlbGl2ZXJ5IFByb2JsZW0AAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvXiW SRgtIT8R5F0R0Z/oREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEQAAAHRieXJu ZXNAc25ldC5uZXQAAAAAAwAGEITCIjMDAAcQTwEAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhJRk9MS1MsQ0FOU09N RU9ORVBMRUFTRVRFTExNRVdIWUlLRUVQUkVDRUlWSU5HVEhFTUVTU0FHRUJFTE9XV0hFTklUUllU T1NFTkRBTUVTU0FHRVRPVEhFTElTVFRIQU5LU0kAAAAAAgEJEAEAAAA1AgAAMQIAAC0EAABMWkZ1 f8/VI/8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMz dwLkBxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFEFC/JjAEAgSGkgRpEG8Gtz LAqFIEMDkUpzA3BlAiBlIAtQZWphEbAgE9BsAyAHgCCAd2h5IEkgawnghHAgFhBjZWl2C4AaZx0g aBygB4FzYWf1HKBiHUBvB+AdsAnwHeFkdHId0HRvHDAJ8GRcIGEfNyDRHwJsBAB0Vi4KhQqFVBGA bhtQIPMLgCFAZHYAcB6AG3cHYfggQnkEoAeQIrwKiyJgyDE0NALRaS0nowzQcyejC1kxNgqgA2AT 0GN9BUAtKkcKhyj7DDApxkY9A2E6K04pxgyCHDBtdIBwW1NNVFA6LwKUQGEG8C4FoG1dKu9fK/0G YAIwLS8uO00CIGQYYXksBdA00CAwNAE08DE5OTggMzpgNTcgUE0wfyv9VJ5vMr8uOwJQJYNAcxyQ jyKQOuE2XzGOdWJqKgHvOH8zzAtwAyBEHUAeoASQ/R3QUANgAmAT4CZPGa8pxh1BZVMFsCCiOm0u IFnvCGEdcD+yINFnC2AEEAPwSnoLICAFoHVsITBueyngH7EgDbBAEwmAH7Fj/GF1HQFGWQQAR1MA 0B6A/wUwHsJF0wPwHwAhQAJAAND+aAeAAjAlz0GPQp9M9BUxAgBPwAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAA AABAAAcwwFOJYpF4vQFAAAgwwFOJYpF4vQEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABGVzogAAAAAAX8 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7874.C5665780-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 21:28:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 19:36:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:more scary stuff on lead Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:31:26 -0400 Message-ID: <199805060231.WAA00473@ppp17.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805032058.QAA00607@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Peggy W Johnsen twistes the bytes to say: Peggy> the lead that is used. But as long as everyone observes basic safety Peggy> factors, we will all survive, i.e., not dumping lead came scraps in the Peggy> regular trash, providing secondary containment to prevent chemical leakage Can anybody tell me what I am suppose to do with the lead scraps? I did not know this... -- Daniel M. German "Science clears the fields on which W. Heisenberg -> technology can build. " http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 21:53:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 19:43:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: gmanning@banet.net Subject: Re: Odyssey Forms Rental Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:42:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.17426.0> References: <<1998May4.20223.0>> Precedence: bulk Goldpaws, I believe that ;you can rent them from a fellow bungian, Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2 (Tel:416-252-6868) Canada's first and still its only officially sanctioned stained glass supplier. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Tue, 05 May 1998 00:02:23 -0400 Goldpaws writes: >Is there any place that Odyssey forms can be rented from? >TIA >Goldpaws _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 21:57:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 20:11:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: mercedes@nj1.aae.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mirror Backing?? Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:09:44 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.3944.0> Precedence: bulk Clear finger nail polish around the edges should do the trick... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 22:09:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 20:17:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: edupjohn@slonet.org, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stepping stones Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:14:51 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.31451.0> Precedence: bulk I was refering to the article in Glass Crafters magazine... It discussed sinking pieces of glass, fixing the problem, tapping the sides, air bubbles, ect... Hastings is where I bought the magazine.... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 5 22:12:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 19:52:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Barb/Joe W Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mirror Backing?? Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998May5.12458.0> References: <<3.0.3.32.19980505202148.006a85d0@nj1.aae.com>> Precedence: bulk Joe: Mirror backing can be a regular mirror sealant available from your sg supplier; or use clear fingernail polish on the edges of the mirror where the backing is to seal it and prevent the mirror rot that is caused by the flux spreading. The flux is acid and will 'eat' through the backing causing an ugly blackening of the mirror. One thing sure, it does need to be sealed. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 00:04:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 22:20:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca Subject: Re:more scary stuff on lead Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:17:43, -0500 Message-ID: <199805060517.BAA19206@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Peggy> the lead that is used. But as long as everyone observes basic safety Peggy> factors, we will all survive, i.e., not dumping lead came scraps in the Peggy> regular trash, providing secondary containment to prevent chemical leakage Can anybody tell me what I am suppose to do with the lead scraps? I did not know this... << Save all scraps of lead and when you have a goodly amount take them to the recycler. Lead scrap is welcomed at scrap metal yards and is worth 50-60 cents (US) a pound. While you're there look around. You might just find lots of copper wire that can be used in stained glass projects. They will sell for about $1.00 a pound which is dirt cheap for good usable copper wire. Of course, fishermen are likely to welcome a present of scrap lead for making sinkers but they most often pay off in fish and not coin. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Capt'n! The spellchecker kinna take this abuse!* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 00:25:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 22:40:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: k12s.phast.umass.edu!wmagdycz From: Elaine To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: more scary stuff on lead Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 01:40:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May5.184032.0> References: <<199805060231.WAA00473@ppp17.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Daniel M. German wrote: > > Peggy W Johnsen twistes the bytes to say: > > Peggy> the lead that is used. But as long as everyone observes basic safety > Peggy> factors, we will all survive, i.e., not dumping lead came scraps in the > Peggy> regular trash, providing secondary containment to prevent chemical leakage > > Can anybody tell me what I am suppose to do with the lead scraps? I > did not know this... > > -- > Daniel M. German "Science clears the fields on which > W. Heisenberg -> technology can build. " > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Daniel, I bring mine back to a local stained glass studio. Elaine ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 00:32:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 22:46:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca Subject: Re: bare feet in glass Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:44:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.214438.0> References: <<199805060041.BAA14594@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk Daniel, With all this talk about working in living space, thought I'd point you to a little piece on my website called something like "Glass 101 for apartment dwellers". I think it's in the safety tips archive, and outlines some of the procedures for keeping the chips under control ( from back in my bedroom glassworker days of the early 70's.) Also, most red cathedral glasses can be scored with less pressure than you use on most other colors. The skinny slivers you describe usually mean the score line has been overpressured. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com >Don McDonald twistes the bytes to say: > > Don> EGADS! I could never go in my glass shop without shoes! I hope >you > Don> keep your tetanus booster up to date (every two years), Daniel. > > >I guess I'll bore everybody with my story... > >I live in an apartment which I share with a roommate. My shop doubles >as a living/dining room. In fact, the same table triples as: a stain >glass worktable, a sawing table and a electrician/electronics >table. In essence, it is a hobby table with a collection of boxes >underneath were I store all my different tools for my different >hobbies. I have experience with "multi-purpose" rooms. When I used to >live by myself my living room used to double as a darkroom. > >The room has hardwood (a bless!, I can't image what would I do if it >was carpet). I tent to be very, very careful when I cut glass and I >clean up as well as I can (I guess I have to be more pernicious >against those tiny slivers). > >The Canadians have peculiar habits. One of them is to remove their >shoes when the step into a home. I got hooked to it and I remove not >only shoes but socks also when I am at my place. Fortunately my >roommate does use slippers, otherwise I'd cut no glass :) > >I'd be more careful with glass. I broom and mop everything. I guess >I'll have to use the vacuum cleaner --I just have some aversion to the >latter. > >Red glass is particularly bad. It tends to make very sharp >slivers. And it looks like blood hence it is harder to remove! :) > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 00:42:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 22:47:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca Subject: Re: more scary stuff on lead Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:36:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.213627.0> References: <<199805032058.QAA00607@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca>>> Precedence: bulk We save up all scraps of lead, copper, brass and zinc in separate boxes. When it gets too much to have around we bring it all to the scrap metal dealers who recycle it and pay you the going rate per lb. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Tue, 5 May 1998 22:31:26 -0400 "Daniel M. German" writes: > > >Peggy W Johnsen twistes the bytes to say: > > > Peggy> the lead that is used. But as long as everyone observes basic >safety > Peggy> factors, we will all survive, i.e., not dumping lead came >scraps in the > Peggy> regular trash, providing secondary containment to prevent >chemical leakage > >Can anybody tell me what I am suppose to do with the lead scraps? I >did not know this... > > >-- >Daniel M. German "Science clears the fields on which > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 01:11:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 5 May 1998 23:55:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: chescom.net!don From: Don McDonald To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: LEAD CASTINGS Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 01:54:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May5.205418.0> References: <<199805052122.RAA24372@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk I've been watching this thread about the melting of the lead casting. I'm suprised nobody has made the suggestion to turn down the heat on your soldering iron. When I'm working with lead came, I set the iron just hot enough to melt the solder without melting the lead. It slows down the soldering but saves the lead profile. I've never done any of those lead castings, but I've melted my share of lead came until I got the setting right for my iron. You might give it a try. suzy@comcat.com wrote: > Karlene said: > >>I have done a few lead castings:angels,butterfly's,butterfly lady ect. Does > >>anyone have tips for soldering wings ect to bodies; seems to take forever & > so > >>hard not to touch hooks and melt them off. > > Carol responded: > I like to use a short piece of copper > >wire soldered to the wing first,and then solder the other end to the body of > >the cast item. It's stronger than solder alone...provides a great anchor, > >and avoids some of the ugly solder buildup I've seen on jobs I've repaired. > > Suzanne adds: > Carol, thanks for your tip about the copper wire. I never did hear from > Creative Castings so I went ahead and "winged it" for the Butterfly Lady. > I used a couple pieces of wire and gave the top wings a "back brace" and > then soldered them onto the casting. The bottom wings seemed to overlap > the top wings a bit, so I used another couple pieces of wire to give them > more strength, and tacked them a few places to the top wings. > > She turned out beautiful! And not much too solder buildup. Thanks again. > > Karlene, as far as not melting the little hooks, I've gone that too and > guess you just have to be really careful. One of my students watched her > butterfly body just melt away before her very eyes. Of course, they're > made of lead. Duh! > > Suzanne > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 02:41:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 02:13:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: dodgestudio@juno.com Subject: Re: goggles/tools Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:46:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.17469.0> References: <<1998May4.154322.0>>> Precedence: bulk Deb, I have never even thought about the hemostats getting hot, but I usually just solder a few pieces at a time with them. It's possible that if you just kept using them for hours and let the iron touch them they could get hot, but for most applications I don't think it will be an issue. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 04:44:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 04:35:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Jewelry hardware Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:09:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May5.15923.0> Precedence: bulk I'm looking for the little things to glue on to earrings or pins. W/C used to carry this stuff in their old catalog, but don't have it in their new catalog. Can anyone tell me where to get these things? Jerri P.S. Has anyone seen Albert lately? He's been awfully quiet. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 06:47:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 06:15:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: more scary stuff on lead Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 09:14:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.51415.0> References: <<199805060231.WAA00473@ppp17.uwaterloo.ca>> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk Know any fisherman, that make their own rigs? Most are happy to get free lead scraps for sinkers and other trolling jigs. They will add the scrap to a collection of other lead they have scrounged, i.e. wheel weights from a tire shop, and melt it down and get free lead sinkers. Daniel M. German wrote: > Peggy W Johnsen twistes the bytes to say: > > Peggy> the lead that is used. But as long as everyone observes basic safety > Peggy> factors, we will all survive, i.e., not dumping lead came scraps in the > Peggy> regular trash, providing secondary containment to prevent chemical leakage > > Can anybody tell me what I am suppose to do with the lead scraps? I > did not know this... > > -- > Daniel M. German "Science clears the fields on which > W. Heisenberg -> technology can build. " > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 07:16:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 06:20:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Forms Rental Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 06:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805061317.GAA25012@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Received some email from Ken Ransom this morning and he has some new "bench" form rentals. Anyone interested it's Fusion Stained Glass at fusion@awinc.com Cindy He's also in Canada >Gary has said: >I believe that ;you can rent them from a fellow bungian, > >Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2 >(Tel:416-252-6868) >Canada's first and still its only officially sanctioned stained glass >supplier. > > > > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 07:19:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 06:36:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aracnet.net!bigcreek From: Wayne Parks To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E9ED5E03CFA8E047F4CA9F62" Subject: Re: more scary stuff on lead Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 08:20:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.42057.0> References: <<199805060517.BAA19206@mime3.prodigy.com>> Organization: Big Creek Studio Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E9ED5E03CFA8E047F4CA9F62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-UNICODE-2-0-UTF-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a note in regard to giving used lead to fishermen (or women) for use in sinkers.....lead is a No ..No.. no matter where it is. Hundreds of sinkers are lost by fishermen and remain in the water for a very long time still giving off those nasty poisons. We then drink that water and are right back where we started from. There is a very concerted effort by most Conservation groups and Sports associations to ban lead for fishing and move to more friendly materials such as bismuth. Wayne Parks (dedicated lurker) Big Creek Studio --------------E9ED5E03CFA8E047F4CA9F62 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=x-UNICODE-2-0-UTF-7; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Wayne Parks Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Wayne Parks n: Parks;Wayne org: Big Creek Studio email;internet: bigcreek@aracnet.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;-28288 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------E9ED5E03CFA8E047F4CA9F62-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 07:43:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 07:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly From: Nadine Beth Schneider To: Yegnim Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: test Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:02:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.6257.0> References: <<1998May2.23359.0>> Precedence: bulk I just got my computer up and I, too, have a bunch of blank bios and messages. Nadine > Howard, > Yes, the text for "unbiased" came thru just fine, as did all of the > other e- > mail listed in the "subject" line. Looks like you have a problem. > Lenore > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 08:15:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 07:28:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Stepping stones Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:26:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.62655.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by PUZZY KATZ >How many pieces of glass would you say are in a standard pattern vs a custom pattern...? Are you using DimondCrete? And are you including the stand= s in the price of the tables? The least expensive stand ive seen ran $45.00 = maybe you have a better sourse then I:)> Standard patterns generally run 10-15 pieces. I do not use DiamondCrete. I use a special concrete called "Rapid-Set" which is used by the concrete industry to patch airline runways. Sets up in 20 minutes. Very hot chemical reaction. Within 14 hours it is very, very, very hard. No chicken wire needed. Stands are included in the price of the tables. I probably do have a better source for them than you do, as I purchase wholesale since I own a retail stained glass store. Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 07:56:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: goggles/tools Date: Wed, 6 May 98 07:54:54 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1998May5.17469.0>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk Gary Dodge wrote: > I have never even thought about the hemostats getting hot, but I usually > just solder a few pieces at a time with them. It's possible that if you > just kept using them for hours and let the iron touch them they could get > hot, but for most applications I don't think it will be an issue. i've been using these for years. they don't get hot enough to matter (either to the touch at the handles, or melting anything). however, i've found that any flux on the hinge will cause almost instant corrosion, ruining them. charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 08:50:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 07:33:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mirror Backing?? Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:32:20 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.143220.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-06 00:58:07 EDT, you write: > Clear finger nail polish around the edges should do the trick... I have even found gray nail polish. I use it to match the back of the mirror. I also have the mirror sealant and tried it once and had this sticky mess. It is VERY adhesive. And seems you MUST tape off the front of the mirror to prevent the sealant from getting on it. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 09:14:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 07:46:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Barb/Joe W Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror Backing?? Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:46:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.64613.0> References: <<3.0.3.32.19980505202148.006a85d0@nj1.aae.com>> Precedence: bulk Barb/Joe W wrote: > > Joe, a lurker from NJ, with a question, > > I have been asked to make a mirror panel, a new type project for me. Do > you suggest applying some sort of spray or paint to protect the back > surface of the mirror? If so, what do you suggest? > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass mirror spray works pretty well. clear laquer should also work, try not to grind the mirror edges if you can. the micro chips around the edges gives the flux a better bite to destroy your mirror. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 09:17:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 08:13:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: jerri m Roey Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Jewelry hardware Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 11:04:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.7453.0> References: <<1998May5.15923.0>> Precedence: bulk jerri m Roey wrote: > > I'm looking for the little things to glue on to earrings or pins. W/C > used to carry this stuff in their old catalog, but don't have it in their > new catalog. Can anyone tell me where to get these things? > > Jerri > > P.S. Has anyone seen Albert lately? He's been awfully quiet. > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass try http://www.riogrande.com/ they sell just jewelry supplies. all color catalog, order the tool catalog and parts.. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 09:21:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 07:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: more scary stuff on lead Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:50:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.65046.0> Precedence: bulk I still use lead for sinkers - nothing else makes nice soft split shot = like lead. But if that is a no-no in your area (it's not banned in = Virginia) give your scraps to a shooter so he can make his own bullets. = That's still legal most everywhere, for now.=20 Linda=20 Just a note in regard to giving used lead to fishermen (or women) for use in sinkers.....lead is a No ..No.. no matter where it is. Hundreds of sinkers are lost by fishermen and remain in the water for a very long time still giving off those nasty poisons. We then drink that water and are right back where we started from. There is a very concerted effort by most Conservation groups and Sports associations to ban lead for fishing and move to more friendly materials such as bismuth. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 09:41:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 07:53:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Toby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: bare feet in glass Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:51:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.65119.0> References: <<199805060041.BAA14594@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Don't worry Daniel, > The Swedes ALSO take their shoes and socks off indoors. > Very civilized, thinks I. In this house, it has an added safety > factor, it means that MY feet picks up the glass before the 4-footed > residents do. > I use a similar approach in my college teaching. I tell all my > students that they are in charge of cleaning up after themselves and > help each other (at one College, we got "relocated" from one room, > because it was carpeted and tiny bits of glass was found in the > carpet). > I tell my students that it is ME who ultimately "carries the can". > After they have left for the day/evening I will go over every surface > they have cleaned up "with my bare hands". If I appear the next week > heavily covered in bandages - I tell them - it is because I have cut > myself on glass they have left behind. I don't mind cutting myself if > I can (thus) someone else to be injured. > Luckily, my classes and my students are renowned everywhere for their > carefulness and meticulousness in cleaning up. So I am proud of them. > I will pad about bare-feet in your pad anytime!! > > On reflection, I am quite glad the hilarious discussion I had with > some people OFF-Group last summer, was kept OFF-Group (I might have > really disgarced myself !!!) > Not only did I work with stained glass bare-foot, but it was so > dreadfully hot last summer, that I found myself setting up workspace > down the garden, working there at night with NOTHING on!! (I couldn't > sleep anyway!) > > (Thank God I have a secluded garden, bordering onto a > field!!!!) Elisabeth in the "nuddy" feverishly involved leading > panels in the middle of the night in the middle of the garden, must > have been quite a sight!! > The jokes I had, don't bear repeating.! > Carry on bare-foot Daniel!! One develops thick soles and a unique > touch with Mother Earth ;-) > And to watch the sun rise is quite a unique experience..... > The bare-footed shall inherit the Earth! > Take care now. > 2-footed Elisabeth 'n 4-footed Toby in UK > that reminds me of something that one of my teachers told me. one night she could'nt sleep. so in her night gown she decided to do some soldering. the next day she looked at the night gown, and it was covered with little holes, at first she was puzzled, then remembered what she was doing last night. the solder splatters melted little holes in the material. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 09:45:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 09:07:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: glasstreasures.com!sgt From: Stephanie Hansen To: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey), glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Jewelry hardware Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 11:04:02 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980506110402.007e7bb0@glasstreasures.com> References: <<1998May5.15923.0>> Precedence: bulk I buy pin backs at Wal-Mart, you can generally get them at any craft store, too (Michael's, MJDesigns, Hobby Lobby, whatever). Don't know about earring backs, but probably you can get them, too. As for Albert, he mentioned in a recent IGGA Memo that he'd be out of the country for a couple of weeks and then travelling around the country for a couple of weeks, so he may be off-list for awhile. Steph ~ At 07:09 PM 5/5/98 -0400, jerri m Roey wrote: >I'm looking for the little things to glue on to earrings or pins. W/C >used to carry this stuff in their old catalog, but don't have it in their >new catalog. Can anyone tell me where to get these things? > >Jerri > >P.S. Has anyone seen Albert lately? He's been awfully quiet. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 09:49:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 08:40:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: FW: Mail Delivery Problem Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:38:13 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.153813.0> Precedence: bulk I believe you cannot send mail with attachments to the list. In the past, when I had a photo of a panel I had completed, I told everyone they could e- mail me if they wanted to see it. I must have sent out 30 e-mails! I wish we had a gallery homepage so everyone could send in photos of some of their work. Then, when you wanted to view it, you could just go to that address. Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 10:16:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 09:27:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: side lights Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:21:48 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.162148.0> Precedence: bulk Hey all!! I've been asked to do another project for a friend. She has two side lights (on either side of her front door). The panels will installed behind the glass thats there now. Do I need to do anything differently as far as reinforcement? She hasn't given me the exact size yet, but should be about 8" wide, 76" long. Keep in mind that I only do copperfoil work. Also, how would these be installed? Diamond points? Thanks in advance, Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 10:47:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 09:59:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!IreneMerm From: Irene Merm To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: inexpensive drawing program Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:55:49 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.165549.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, Yesterday I was informed that an inexpensive drawing program was available. If you call 1 (800) 557-3743 you can obtain Serif Draw + 2.0 and Serif Page + 3.0 for $6.95 which is just shipping and handling costs. They want a reference number but I explained that I didn't have one and they allowed me to purchase the program anyway. They do not include the documentation (the reference books) at this price but will sell you the manuals for $19.95 so for $26.+ you can obtain a reasonabley priced drawing program. You can check it out further for going to www.spcp.com before you call to see if it will help you in anyway. Hope you are able to get it too. Bye for now. Irene ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 11:17:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 10:36:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mirror Backing?? Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:34:57 -0700 Message-ID: <199805061734.KAA13180@ark.com> Precedence: bulk Joe...I use a spray varathane that can be found in any of your local building supply or hardware stores. I used both the satin finish and gloss finish, and both seem to be equally good. IMO---just as good as the so-called commercial stuff for mirrors and cheaper too. >Joe, a lurker from NJ, with a question, > >I have been asked to make a mirror panel, a new type project for me. Do >you suggest applying some sort of spray or paint to protect the back >surface of the mirror? If so, what do you suggest? > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Wayne Munro 'Snail mail' address 2960 Suffield Road, Courtenay, B.C. Canada V9N-3V5 ICQ # 2762376 Phone and Fax-- (250) 338-5507 "Call before sending a fax so setup is complete" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 12:19:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 12:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: globalnet.co.uk!aareg From: "Tony Regan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: mirror backing?? Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:01:09 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May6.2119.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Joe I always use laquer to protect the mirror backs before cutting. Also, I invariably apply an MDF or Ply backing to mirrors to protect them. Barbara and I always decorate the mirror backs [ which seems absurd], but it also allows for concealed fixings. We foil the edges, or apply mirror if thicker backings are used. This is ideal for larger pieces, and the consealed fixings make for easier hanging with a more pleasing look as it lies flat to the wall regards Tony & Barbara Regan Cornwall, UK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 14:45:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 13:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Romajoco From: Romajoco To: tbyrnes@snet.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: FW: Mail Delivery Problem Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:49:49 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.204949.0> Precedence: bulk Tim, it looks like the attachment is the reason you got the mail back. The person you were trying to send it to doesn't want any files attached to incoming emails right now. Margie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 15:22:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 14:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp09.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Gallery? was: FW: Mail Delivery Problem Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:09:52 -0400 Message-ID: <199805062109.RAA00633@ppp09.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998May6.153813.0>> Precedence: bulk CWWSLW twistes the bytes to say: I believe you cannot send mail with attachments to the list. In the past, CWWSLW> when I had a photo of a panel I had completed, I told everyone they could e- CWWSLW> mail me if they wanted to see it. I must have sent out 30 e-mails! I wish we had a gallery homepage so everyone could send in photos of some of CWWSLW> their work. Then, when you wanted to view it, you could just go to that CWWSLW> address. A gallery? What a terrific idea! I volunteer time and harddisk for the enterprise. If there is interest, I'll take care of the details and try to set some automatic way for anybody to put an image in the gallery. -- Daniel M. German "There is no national science as there is no national multiplication table; Anton Chekov -> what is national is no longer science." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 15:28:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 14:21:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: PUZZYKATZ@aol.com, Afhulsey@aol.com, Alexev@aol.com, ANDCHR1@aol.com, Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Re: Litredtruk's Work Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:19:16 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.211916.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_894489556_boundary Content-ID: <0_894489556@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Religous Panel --part0_894489556_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 15:45:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 14:17:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: Afhulsey@aol.com, Alexev@aol.com, ANDCHR1@aol.com, ArcticKat@aol.com, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Dont Forget Tonights SG Chat Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:13:24 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.211324.0> Precedence: bulk WED CHAT REMINDER Welcome Bungi group:) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SHOW OFF PICS Are attached to e-mail... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ REQUESTS Please Send in May Birthdays! Please send in glass sites and patterns!! The Pic Monster needs more pics.. WE'RE running out of pics!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GLASS SITES Welcome to Kokomo Opalescent Glass http://www.kog.com/ Youghiogheny Home Page http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/youghiogheny/ BLENKO GLASS COMPANY ONLINE http://www.citynet.net/blenko/blenko.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GLASS PATTERNS Pattern 3 http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/patterns/pattern3.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MEETING TIME/PLACE Stained Glass (Click here for chat room) WED/SAT Eastern 9pm Central 8pm Mountain 7pm Pacific 6pm EMAIL TO: puzzykatz@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 15:46:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 14:27:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: PUZZYKATZ@aol.com, Afhulsey@aol.com, Alexev@aol.com, ANDCHR1@aol.com, Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Re: HimJolly's Work Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:24:23 EDT Message-ID: <1998May6.212423.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_894489864_boundary Content-ID: <0_894489864@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hollywood --part0_894489864_boundary Content-ID: <0_894489864@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: image/gif; name="2JH-HO~1.GIF" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-disposition: inline R0lGODlh8QAgAff/AP///5yUlIR7e5xra86MjBgQEGNCQiEQEGsxMUIYGEIQEGMQEJQ5MXsp GLVzYzEQCJQpEJxKMd6tnJw5GFIpGOece6VaMaVKGMZrMbVaIeethHtaQtaMWqVrQnNCIcZr Kd6UWrVzQs57Oa2EY86UY96cY9aUWrVjIffOpe/GnO+9jOe1hO+1ezkpGMaEQs6EOcZ7Mb1z KUpCOc6cY+eta96lY9acWtaUSs6MQsaEOffWre/GlN61hO+1a/fOlO/GjHtjQs6la+e1c9al Y969jL2ca3NSIffOjO/GhN61c+fGjO/Ge9a1c961Y0o5GOfOlHtjKe/eraWUY62MKd69QtbO 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LLjTLNiCLbCCMfCAj2G7xEmcO9CKPECfHEkAL8CDQdUDICCAB0gASC0AfXCVDRgBKbAHe7jM FpAHBRiBfbBPKLAAINiABjCCDaAAGRCisniGkuwKJBILn/qEDwgBDmACHrjVGe2wW1PT0SYY ghKg0VszsSSgUcyqAcdSUR97LRsYghkwgZICqgl5EaWIgSk4zSqbgguwAguwAii4AJPpUnBV UAWgzymEMx8y109IV1kCojwQgz7ogzzwgngVAzfQUzdIGZR5Lp9SA/5s10T1Bynoq4ASAlUx ACCIla8APwUIKB0ghwMoACO40yaIsDXYgiyQgixYgzvog6vwijs7kU/wh1vqg40tFfA7gOtq AQQogiIYAQOgAH14DQNIjQQwBgrogC/YB2MwBk7wACg4gARoAQ4dVQPYAAMICAA7 --part0_894489864_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 15:55:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 14:39:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "CWWSLW" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: side lights Date: Wed, 6 May 98 17:35:26 -0400 Message-ID: <199805062133.RAA28690@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Susan writes: > I've been asked to do another project for a friend. She has two side lights >(on either side of her front door). The panels will installed behind the >glass >thats there now. Do I need to do anything differently as far as >reinforcement? She hasn't given me the exact size yet, but should be about 8" >wide, 76" long. Keep in mind that I only do copperfoil work. > Also, how would these be installed? Diamond points? Susan, first of all, put a good border of zinc around them (3/8" should be OK), and run a strip of reinforcement through the work from top to bottom. As far as installation, the ones I've done have been put in behind quarter-round (?) I didn't do it myself but they're still in the window! Have fun and be careful when you transport them. Suzanne suzy@comcat.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 16:26:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 15:27:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!artglass From: "Dianne G. Maddison" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: safety list Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 15:27:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May6.102722.0> Organization: The Ivory Express Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, I would be happy to share my safety list and I wish the rest of you teachers would also. I know there are things that I have forgotten to include that I should have. 1. Always use eye and breathing protection when grinding glass, soldering, using lead, and using flux and patina. 2. Always wash hands before eating, drinking, and smoking, after using any of the above. 3. Use adequate ventilation in the studio. 4. Never wear open toed shoes or sandals in the studio. 5. Never hold sheets of glass over your head to look through. 6. Always follow caution labels on products. I try not to scare my students to death but I also want them to be aware and use caution. I also have them sign a release form before they start my classes. Have a great day. Dianne M. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 17:28:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 16:55:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Artistic suicide? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:53:09 +0000 Message-ID: <199805062353.AAA02694@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk PUZZY KATZ wrote: Just what is artistic suicide...? Hmmmmm an Oxymoron...? ---- Maybe something like this: The endeavour into the unknown by the unknowing with resultant known inevitable disaster....... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 18:27:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 17:57:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: hot glass---mold question Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:48:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.154814.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks to everyone who's helped me with my jewelry findings (Now that I know the correct word, I guess I'll use it.) question. I took a fusing class in Feb., and although we didn't use molds, we learned a little about ceramic molds and making your own molds. Just sort of touched on the topic. I was wondering what is the difference between the ceramic molds and the metal ones? I was just curious because I was looking at a catalog and saw that the metal molds are much cheaper than the ceramic molds. Is there any difference in how they work? Is one better than the other? Thanks, Jerri _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 19:27:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 18:47:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "Mike Figgy" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Re:more scary stuff on lead Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:46:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.174656.0> Precedence: bulk All this talk about the use of lead free solder makes me wonder if people have considered their flux, brush and soldering iron tip and sponge. You must remember that if you want to keep your work lead free it's not enough to just use lead free solder. You must use a brush and flux that was not previously used for lead based solders. This also extends to your soldering iron (while not 100% you should flush the tip with lead free solder several times) and iron tip sponge. Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2 (Tel:416-252-6868) Canada's first and still its only officially sanctioned stained glass supplier. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grimes To: Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo Date: May 5, 1998 10:28 PM Subject: Re: Re:more scary stuff on lead >I use lead free solder for things like bird feeder's and items that will be >handled by kids.I find thar it's not to hard to work with.To make it easier >you just switch to a 800 degree tip on a weller 100watt iron. >Stuff works fair.Not quite as good as 63-37 , but you can make it look >good. >-----Original Message----- >From: Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo >To: Bungi >Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 3:51 PM >Subject: Re:more scary stuff on lead > > >>Message text written by "Daniel M. German" >>>Anybody out there who only uses lead-free solder as an ethical >>decision? Just curious...< >> >>If I know it is going into a child's room or will be >>handled by children, I use lead-free solder. Otherwise, >>it's regular ole 60/40 for me. But now you've got me >>thinking that I should put a "This product contains >>Lead" sticker on my work. >> >>Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles >>4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 20:00:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 19:43:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: Kris To: "Daniel M. German" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gallery? was: FW: Mail Delivery Problem Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 22:41:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.184120.0> References: <<199805062109.RAA00633@ppp09.uwaterloo.ca>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk I think that's a great idea too. Daniel, what a generous offer! Kris Daniel M. German wrote: > > CWWSLW twistes the bytes to say: > > I believe you cannot send mail with attachments to the list. In the past, > CWWSLW> when I had a photo of a panel I had completed, I told everyone they could e- > CWWSLW> mail me if they wanted to see it. I must have sent out 30 e-mails! > I wish we had a gallery homepage so everyone could send in photos of some of > CWWSLW> their work. Then, when you wanted to view it, you could just go to that > CWWSLW> address. > > A gallery? What a terrific idea! > > I volunteer time and harddisk for the enterprise. If there is > interest, I'll take care of the details and try to set some automatic > way for anybody to put an image in the gallery. > > -- > Daniel M. German ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 21:31:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 21:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: jroey@juno.com Subject: Re: hot glass---mold question Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:26:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May6.192645.0> References: <<1998May6.154814.0>> Precedence: bulk Jerri, I haven't seen the metal molds they sell for hobby work, but way back when, I worked at a place where we had a continuous run lear. It is a mechanized kiln. About half a city block long with what looked like 5 or 6 rocket engines blazing inside and a merry-go-round running through it! The panels to be bent were carried by the "merry-go-round" past the "rockets", while riding in metal molds, then through a cooling chamber. If I recall it took about a half hour for a mold and panel to get back to the start, all nicely bent. Hundreds of these metal molds took the trip all day long, day after day. Sooner or later they'd start to warp and have to be replaced, but sooner or later the ceramics will crack too. (My guess is sooner.) Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Wed, 6 May 1998 19:48:14 -0400 jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) writes: >Thanks to everyone who's helped me with my jewelry findings (Now that >I >know the correct word, I guess I'll use it.) question. > > I took a fusing class in Feb., and although we didn't use >molds, >we learned a little about ceramic molds and making your own molds. >Just >sort of touched on the topic. I was wondering what is the difference >between the ceramic molds and the metal ones? I was just curious >because >I was looking at a catalog and saw that the metal molds are much >cheaper >than the ceramic molds. Is there any difference in how they work? Is >one better than the other? > >Thanks, >Jerri > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 21:54:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 21:13:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Gallery? was: FW: Mail Delivery Problem Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:12:13 EDT Message-ID: <1998May7.41213.0> Precedence: bulk Hey!! Lets do it! I'm all excited. I went to the IGGA page. Didn't care for it. I would like just a gallery page of Bungi folk stuff. Is that possible? Thanks for volunteering, Daniel "Smilin' Susan" I volunteer time and harddisk for the enterprise. If there is interest, I'll take care of the details and try to set some automatic way for anybody to put an image in the gallery. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 6 22:01:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 6 May 1998 21:28:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Daniel M. German" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Gallery? was: FW: Mail Delivery Problem Date: Wed, 6 May 98 23:33:13 -0400 Message-ID: <199805070331.XAA24429@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Daniel, this *is* a terrific idea, and you *are* generous to volunteer your time and equipment. I vote we do it! Of course now, I'll have to impose on my friends with digital cameras to shoot some of my work. Suzanne suzy@comcat.com >> A gallery? What a terrific idea! >> >> I volunteer time and harddisk for the enterprise. If there is >> interest, I'll take care of the details and try to set some automatic >> way for anybody to put an image in the gallery. >> >> -- >> Daniel M. German >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 01:29:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 00:59:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, jroey@juno.com Subject: hot glass---mold question Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 03:56:54, -0500 Message-ID: <199805070756.DAA12996@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>we learned a little about ceramic molds and making your own molds. Just sort of touched on the topic. I was wondering what is the difference between the ceramic molds and the metal ones? I was just curious because I was looking at a catalog and saw that the metal molds are much cheaper than the ceramic molds. Is there any difference in how they work? Is one better than the other? Thanks, Jerri<< The metal (stainless steel) molds that are in my catalogs are more expensive than similar ceramic molds. There are simple metal stampings that are cheaper. Of course the metal molds are more durable than creamic (clay) molds and may be heated and cooled quickly without risk of cracking. Metal molds are not perfered for more than shallow slumps (like a plate) due to the fact that they expand upon heating, the glass falls in and then the metal contracts on cooling and traps the glass. Of course, this property is a help when bending glass over a metal mold. Creamic molds act in the reverse. Simple ceramic molds may be made with little skill and equipment and so are a good bet for less than industrial operations. Creamic fiber (not clay) molds are very popular at glass studios due to the ease of making and realitive durability. They will not take abuse but I am firing one at this moment for an estimated 200th time. They are not subject to thermal shock and generally make for even heating of the glass. They do not seem to expand or contract on heating or cooling. Creamic fiber molds are my recommendation for all but large commercial operations. Found items, such as hubcaps and stainless steel kitchen ware can be used for molds. The metal often discolors so get these molds cheap at garage sales and do not use something that is to be returned to the kitchen. Of course, all molds are coated with a kiln wash to act as a release agent. Tip: Heat metal molds to about 400'F and then spray on the kiln wash. Kiln wash does not like to take to cold metal. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Capt'n! The spellchecker kinna take this abuse!* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 05:14:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 04:15:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "Daniel M. German" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Gallery? digital camera Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:17:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May7.31744.0> Precedence: bulk susie said Of course now, I'll have to impose on my friends with digital cameras to = shoot some of my work. Use you scanner. I keep records of all the flat panel stuff I do by = scanning a copy on my flat bed. One object that was too large I scanned = in two segments. Makes pretty good pics, while I'm waiting for the cost = of digital cameras to come down. Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 07:07:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 06:39:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: hot glass---mold question Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 06:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805071337.GAA02248@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > > >Hi Jerri, I use metal molds, actuallly their stainless steel bowls. I have sandblasted the insides so the kiln wash will stick and also drilled two holes in the sides so it won't create a vacuum when slumping into. I've been using the same ones for 5 years and it will depend on the grade of stainless steel how long they last. Poorer grades of stainless will start to peel from the heat. Smiles, Cindy Jerri said: I was wondering what is the difference between the ceramic molds and the metal ones? I was just curious because >I was looking at a catalog and saw that the metal molds are much cheaper >than the ceramic molds. Is there any difference in how they work? Is >one better than the other? > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 07:08:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 06:18:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: white particle in finished panel Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 07:38:31 -0600 Message-ID: <1998May7.13831.0> Precedence: bulk I am fairly new at stained glass. After I finish a panel I was it, then apply a glass finishing compound. I have noticed that several days later I will have white particles in the seams. I have tried polishing a long time followed by a toothbrush scrub over the seams to try and prevent this from happening, but it still does. Any suggestions, I must be doing something wrong. Thanks, Sue ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 07:25:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 06:50:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Gallery? Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:45:17 EDT Message-ID: <1998May7.134517.0> Precedence: bulk Our Barefoot Boy Daniel sez: > A gallery? What a terrific idea! > > I volunteer time and harddisk for the enterprise. [...] You're a saint, guy! My hat's off to ya (and maybe my shoes, too but not in the shop - my hands get chewed up enough, my feet don't need chewing...) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 07:40:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 07:27:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Last word..as a Teacher...delete if you care to Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:25:15 EDT Message-ID: <1998May7.142515.0> Precedence: bulk I don't understand you Elisabeth. Let me explain a few things first... 1. My mail from bungi comes different ways. Sometimes it says it's from bungi and sometimes it doesn't. I know some of them come directly from bungi because they are not answering questions that I have posted. Some of the mail that I submit to bungi doesn't have bungi in the address area at all when I get it back, but I know that I sent it to bungi. 1a. I addressed my letter back to bungi because I wasn't sure which way it came. You told me in one of your letters to bungi (I knew for sure because others were named and answered in the letter) that I misssed the point and that you were sorry for saying so. So I figured this was up for a response. 2. And more important, in my last letter I was trying to be nice. I tried to explain why I answered the way I did (I even reread it again to see if I was out of line and twisting my words so that you didn't get that feeling in it, sometimes I don't word things the way I should (boy I wish I could say English is a second language and I didn't write it quite the way I meant it ). I wasn't being mean when I said that I thought you were open for others' opinions. I truly thought you would appreciate other opinions. If you didn't like my response to your problems with your students you should have just said so, you didn't have to get upset about it and you didn't have to say I missed the point. Even if you were only asking professional teachers, I thought you might want to know what I thought. 3. Now that I know you don't care about my 'obscure "wishy-washy" sentiment I won't respond unless you ask. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 07:59:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 07:20:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: side lights Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:19:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May7.61930.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by CWWSLW >Do I need to do anything differently as far as reinforcement? She hasn't given me the exact size yet, but should be abou= t 8" wide, 76" long. Keep in mind that I only do copperfoil work. Also, how would these be installed? Diamond points?< That's a typical full-sized sidelight. You will definitely need internal reinforcement in the construction, running horizontally in several places. This will help keep the sidelight from bowing too badly. I suggest using Strong-Line, which is a copper-cladded stainless steel reinforcing line which fits between the foiled glass pieces. Then you solder and it becomes a permanent part of the panel. I would not use Re-Strip as that is a bit too flimsy for this type of work. The hardest part of the construction will be flipping the panel over for soldering the back. Make sure you get an extra person to help. I also strongly suggest you frame this in zinc channel, as that will also add to the panel's strength, and give protection to the glass during installation. As to installation, there are several options. You can make the panel to size and use screws into the wooden sidelight framing to hold the stained glass panel up against the existing sidelight. Or you can use glass clips to do the same. Or you can cut some new wooden molding strips and frame in the stained glass sidelight that way, so that the zinc frame does not show and the homeowner can paint/stain the molding to match the existing decor. I think the latter is the most professional looking, but the first option (screws) is quickest and cheapest. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 08:08:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 07:34:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: chescom.net!don From: Don McDonald To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Kaleidoscopes Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 09:33:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May7.43351.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone have kaleidoscope patterns they are willing to share? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 08:31:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 08:00:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: mirror backing?? Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:58:41 EDT Message-ID: <1998May7.145841.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-06 15:19:56 EDT, you write: > I always use laquer to protect the mirror backs before cutting. > I thought you would coat it AFTER you cut it, to seal the edges. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 09:15:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 08:19:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: side lights Date: Thu, 7 May 98 08:18:07 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1998May7.61930.0>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > That's a typical full-sized sidelight. You will definitely need > internal reinforcement in the construction, running horizontally > in several places. This will help keep the sidelight from bowing > too badly. I suggest using Strong-Line, which is a > copper-cladded stainless steel reinforcing line which fits > between the foiled glass pieces. Then you solder and it > becomes a permanent part of the panel. I would not use Re-Strip > as that is a bit too flimsy for this type of work. The hardest > part of the construction will be flipping the panel over for > soldering the back. Make sure you get an extra person to > help. i'm not sure i agree, as long as you use zinc edges. if the pattern doesn't have long straight runs, it won't fold. it's going against the existing glass, and that certainly doesn't have any reinforcements. why would you need strongline horizontally, if it's only 7" across? with moulding holding in each side, and it resting on it's base, there isn't any pressure or sagging. > I also strongly suggest you frame this in zinc channel, > as that will also add to the panel's strength, and give > protection to the glass during installation. a must > As to installation, there are several options. You can > make the panel to size and use screws into the wooden > sidelight framing to hold the stained glass panel up > against the existing sidelight. Or you can use glass > clips to do the same. Or you can cut some new wooden > molding strips and frame in the stained glass sidelight > that way, so that the zinc frame does not show and the > homeowner can paint/stain the molding to match the > existing decor. I think the latter is the most professional > looking, but the first option (screws) is quickest and > cheapest. i've built a bunch of these. an easy way to flip it is to solder it up on a 2"x8"x8' board. place another one on top, turn over, and remove the now top board. the trick is using flat boards. you can then use this board to transport it and by just tilting the board vertically, you don't even need multiple people for installation. the easiest way to mount it is to remove the existing moulding, place the panel against the glass, and either replace the moulding, or use new pieces. i like to use quarter round, since it's the same size as 1/2" zinc came. since the moulding won't be airtight, you don't have to worry about condensation. tip: if it's a newish house, make the panel slightly small, so if the house settles a bit and twists the window frame, your panel won't shatter. a 1/8" gap outside the zinc should be sufficient. regards, charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 09:46:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 09:12:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: on the topic of molds Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805071443.HAA18483@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Guys, Has anyone got any ideas for rose petals? I'd like to slump and glue?? My pea brain can't quite visualize what I need to do. I've seen a poorly drawn mold in a cataloque, it's a progression of five of them. Has anyone tried it? Thanks in advance, Cindy PS. I think barefoot Daniel's idea of a gallery would be great, boy with the bio's happening and if this could get off the ground...wow! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 10:04:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 09:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: intel.com!lynice.spangler From: "Spangler, Lynice" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: hot glass---mold question Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:22:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May7.2227.0> Precedence: bulk I have found Goodwill to be a great source for all kinds of stainless steel items to be used for molds. L. Spangler On Thursday, May 07, 1998 6:37 AM, Cindy Pesonen [SMTP:cpesonen@bcinternet.net] wrote: > > > > > >Hi Jerri, > I use metal molds, actuallly their stainless steel bowls. I have sandblasted > the insides so the kiln wash will stick and also drilled two holes in the > sides so it won't create a vacuum when slumping into. I've been using the > same ones for 5 years and it will depend on the grade of stainless steel how > long they last. Poorer grades of stainless will start to peel from the heat. > Smiles, Cindy > > Jerri said: > I was wondering what is the difference between the ceramic molds and the > metal ones? I was just curious because > >I was looking at a catalog and saw that the metal molds are much cheaper > >than the ceramic molds. Is there any difference in how they work? Is > >one better than the other? > > > > > > > > > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 10:15:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 10:05:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!lyelton From: Linda Yelton To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Cathedral Tour Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:12:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May7.91249.0> Organization: self Precedence: bulk Greetings, =20 Most of you have heard about our Celebration of Light, Tour of Gothic Cathedrals of Northern France to take place this summer from July 3-11.=20 It=92s going to be a very important tour. The Gothic Cathedrals which wil= l be featured are the Notre Dames of Chartres, Amiens, Reims, and Paris, Eglise Saint Ouen de Rouen, and Sainte-Chappelle in Paris. Three of these cathedrals (Chartres, Reims, and Amiens) are included on UNESCOS World Heritage List of the 516 most important buildings in the world. =20 A number of you have said you=92d love to go but just can=92t afford it.=20 You see, I set the price to include 3 and 4 star hotels and fine restaurants so that you would be as comfortable as possible. However, for those of you who are willing to stay in more modest accomodations, at eat meals (except for the welcome and farewell dinners and picnic lunch) on your own, we can lower the price to only **$1950**. At that price you can afford this trip. E-mail me at=20 lyelton@erols.com In addition, if you are a student, have your teacher contact us. Since the tour guide is also a teacher, we may be able to arrange for you to get credit for the trip. =20 You will learn a lot about the history of cathedrals which are not ordinary churches but rather the seat of the bishop of the surrounding diocese, a religious jurisdiction, and in medieval times, a political one as well. The sacred sites where cathedrals are built were claimed and reclaimed by succeeding rulers of ancient Europe. Churches and cathedrals throughout the region were burnt and destroyed in fire and war repeatedly, and rebuilt repeatedly on the same sacred spots. =20 You will see how the Gothic style came about in response to the 1025 synod at Arras which reiterated a sixth century plea of Pope Gregory the Great that Christian churches depict the story of Christianity on church walls for the unlettered parishioners. The Gothic style which developed was a system which distributed the weight of the vault on a skeletal structure of vertical columns making it possible to support diaphanous stained glass filled walls which could depict the Christian story in colorful glass. Indeed, it was the use of light itself, through the design and placement of stained glass windows, which most marks the Gothic style creating transparency giving a strong impression not of material structure, but of pure energy. =20 The tour will follow glass artist and religious historian, Susan Stevens, as she points out the features of each Cathedral and explains their religious, mystic and historic significance. She will be joined by local experts, art historians, and artists. =20 Local glass artists who have done restoration on the cathedrals will show you their workshops. You will be able to see a glass artist create a window in the same manner as they were created in the middle ages. =20 You will visit a glass factory and see the technique of making stained glass which has changed little since the middle ages. =20 Since there are only 10 spots on the tour available and we have had great interest it is critical to make your reservation **now**. Either contact me by e-mail, phone 703-521-7078 or have your travel agent contact me to make your reservation. =20 Time is now critical. The tour is only 6 weeks away. We hope to see you in France. =20 Sincerely yours, Linda Yelton See the website: http://www.erols.com/lyelton/cathedral/welcome.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 12:13:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 11:21:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Gallery Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:15:44 -0400 Message-ID: <199805071815.OAA00345@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Hi SGers, Well, I believe there is enough interest to start the project off the ground. My goal is to make the gallery as automatic as possible in order to allow anybody who wants to add a photo to make it as easy and simple as possible. I will not worry anybody with the details for the time being. I'd like to start with a small prototype. I'd like to receive around 10 images for this first stage. If you have one you want to include, please do the following: 1. Fill in the form underneath. 2. Attach an image of the figure. Please, try to save it as a JPEG file, it will be smaller. Send it at a decent "displayable" resolution. Lets say, approx. 500 pixels in size. 3. Send the message to "dmg@aries27.uwaterloo.ca" Thanks a lot! dmg ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Artist's Name: Artist's URL: Title: Year: Description: Other: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Instructions: You can use several lines for each field. The URL might be left empty if you don't have a home page. If you think that there is some other information necessary, please let me know. If you want, you can use HTML code for any of the fields. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 15:36:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 11:46:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, cpesonen@bcinternet.net Subject: on the topic of molds Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:44:23, -0500 Message-ID: <199805071844.OAA11348@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>I'd like to slump and glue?? My pea brain can't quite visualize what I need to do. I've seen a poorly drawn mold in a cataloque, it's a progression of five of them. Has anyone tried it?<< Yes, I have tried the five molds that make five slumped pieces to be glued together. Very good for a 3-D rose. By changing the cut shape of the five pieces a large variety of roses can be made. An assembled rose is about four inches across and one and a half inches high. Pretty but not something to be leaded into a window. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Capt'n! The spellchecker kinna take this abuse!* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 7 16:14:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 7 May 1998 11:48:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: globalnet.co.uk!aareg From: "Tony Regan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: mirror backing?? Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:40:58 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May7.204058.0> Precedence: bulk Deb No, I never laquer the edges, and I have never had a problem with blackspot. Before, when I was at the bottom of the learning curve, I found that scratches were the principal cause of backing damage. Always try to have a clean working area. I find that the laquer protects from accidental scratching during handling. Perhaps I should protect the edges, but I tend to cut and foil at the same time. Regards Tony Regan "Glass Act" Cornwall UK -----Original Message----- From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Date: 07 May 1998 16:46 Subject: Re: mirror backing?? >In a message dated 98-05-06 15:19:56 EDT, you write: > >> I always use laquer to protect the mirror backs before cutting. >> >I thought you would coat it AFTER you cut it, to seal the edges. >deb >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 01:35:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 01:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts From: Melanie Dunstan To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: on the topic of molds Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 09:16:33 +0800 Message-ID: <1998May8.171633.0> References: <<199805071844.OAA11348@mime3.prodigy.com>> Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services Precedence: bulk BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote: > Yes, I have tried the five molds that make five slumped pieces to be > glued together. Very good for a 3-D rose. By changing the cut shape > of the five pieces a large variety of roses can be made. An assembled > rose is about four inches across and one and a half inches high. > Pretty but not something to be leaded into a window. Bob > > ____ Gidday this is sounding like something I *have* to try.... anyone able to let me know the source of these molds please? And can you please advise me on the glue I should be using for these? I'm thinking of decorative pieces glued onto a slumped 'leaf' for backing.... Thanks! -- Catcha Melanie Dunstan, in Perth, Australia ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 02:01:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 01:31:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: axom.com!Ed.Williams From: Ed Williams To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Unscribe Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:48:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May7.144820.0> Precedence: bulk Unscribe ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 04:39:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 04:29:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim To: stepsue@ezl.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: white particle in finished panel Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 07:27:34 EDT Message-ID: <1998May8.112734.0> Precedence: bulk I also had problems with the dreaded "white stuff." I found that if I washed the pieces thoroughly using a semi-soft brush, then a sponge, followed by a good hot rinse and towel drying that it solved the problem. I wipe the piece with a flux remover first, then place in a bath of hot water with dish detergent (not for the dishwasher) and scrub away. When I think it is clean, then I clean it a bit more. It was only after I adapted the "clean it a bit more" attitude that I eliminated the problem. Hope this helps. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 07:18:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 06:01:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: chat room Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 08:50:20 EDT Message-ID: <1998May8.125020.0> Precedence: bulk AOL has a Stained Glass Chat room on Wed and Sat nights 8pm central time so alll of you glass junkies are welcome to join us... Stained Glass <~~~~this is a hyper link to the chat room. Its under private roooms Stained Glass. You all recieved a chat reminder earlier... Normally before chats I send out a chat reminder and then show work that people send in and want to show offf :) I all so try to include a Stained Glass Pattern, and a few glass sights everytime... The only draw back seems to be is that its all done under AOL... When Im sent messages talking about bianary and mime codes you might as well be talking Greek to me so if you cant read them I am truly sorry but please no more nastey notes ... trying to make me sound inconsiderate about hom much it costs another to download something I send because I had no idea... Again I was only trying to extend the invatation to chat to the entire bungi group... Some of you people need to get off your high horses be a little less snobish :) The Puzz >^..^< PS.. And to those of you that have made me as well as others feel welcome KISS*** You have my respect... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 07:19:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 06:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: side lights Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 09:21:21 EDT Message-ID: <1998May8.132121.0> Precedence: bulk Is there a formula for.... "You will definitely need internal reinforcement in the construction, running horizontally in several places." ???? How far apart would you suggest The Puzz >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 11:14:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 10:48:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: allcrafts@p085.aone.net.au, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: on the topic of molds Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 13:45:38, -0500 Message-ID: <199805081745.NAA17918@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>> Yes, I have tried the five molds that make five slumped pieces to be > glued together. Very good for a 3-D rose. By changing the cut shape > of the five pieces a large variety of roses can be made. An assembled > rose is about four inches across and one and a half inches high. > Pretty but not something to be leaded into a window. Bob > > ____ Gidday this is sounding like something I *have* to try.... anyone able to let me know the source of these molds please? And can you please advise me on the glue I should be using for these? I'm thinking of decorative pieces glued onto a slumped 'leaf' for backing.... Thanks! -- Catcha Melanie Dunstan, in Perth, Australia<< I got my rose slumping mold set from Pacific Glass in Gardinia, CA (800 35-glass). They are a wholsale resaler for these molds that are made by parties unknown. Current price $11.97. If Pacific will not sell to you direct then your local dealer should have no trouble ordering for you. Clear silicone is a good choice for gluing the pieces together. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Capt'n! The spellchecker kinna take this abuse!* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 13:14:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 12:15:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Chip disposal Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:12:21 EDT Message-ID: <1998May8.191221.0> Precedence: bulk The other night I hit on a nifty way (if I say so myself) to keep all those annoying itty bitty glass chips under control when I'm cutting. Take one of those huge plastic widemouthed bottles you get fruit juice in (a gallon milk jug would work too), cut it off at the shoulder for a funnel, turn it upside down neck-to-neck on top of another bottle or jug, and wrapped masking tape around the joined necks 2 or 3 times. Hold the piece you're working on over the funnel, and any little chips that get snapped off go straight in. When the bottle gets full, just screw the lid on and throw the whole thing in the trash. (I masking-taped the lid to the side of the bottle so it won't get lost in the mean time.) Sparks (pathologically resourceful, but I have to be on account of working at home and my "significant mother" being *very* nervous about my playing with sharp objects, dangerous chemicals, and hot stuff...) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 13:42:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 12:56:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Gallery Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:58:04 -0400 Message-ID: <199805081958.PAA10910@aries17.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Hi Everybody, The prototype is up an running. Check it out: send comments to my email address. http://csg.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/glass/gallery If you want to submit an image, follow the instructions I sent days ago. dmg -- Daniel M. German "You could wind up belivin' that paradise is nothin' more than a feelin' Marillion -> that goes on in your mind." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 13:45:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 13:23:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Rondels Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 16:20:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May8.12202.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All- Had a customer in today in need of about a dozen 12-inch clear rondels. Does anyone know of a source for these. Thanks! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 14:24:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 13:35:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Romajoco From: Romajoco To: Witchdoc3@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Chip disposal Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 16:34:59 EDT Message-ID: <1998May8.203459.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-08 16:17:20 EDT, Witchdoc3@aol.com writes: << The other night I hit on a nifty way (if I say so myself) to keep all those annoying itty bitty glass chips under control when I'm cutting. Take one of those huge plastic widemouthed bottles you get fruit juice in (a gallon milk jug would work too), cut it off at the shoulder for a funnel, turn it upside down neck-to-neck on top of another bottle or jug, and wrapped masking tape around the joined necks 2 or 3 times. Hold the piece you're working on over the funnel, and any little chips that get snapped off go straight in. When the bottle gets full, just screw the lid on and throw the whole thing in the trash. (I masking-taped the lid to the side of the bottle so it won't get lost in the mean time.) >> I think you came up with a great idea....thinks for sharing. I hate it when grozing and the small pieces fall on floor. Margery ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 15:47:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 15:18:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Chip disposal Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:17:20 EDT Message-ID: <1998May8.221720.0> Precedence: bulk GREAT GLASSCHIPS!!!!!! I do believe you are on to something here. GEEEEAADS its a maaahvelous idea. Now I am searchin for those gallon sized containers... I usually just scrounge up those empty cardboard laundry detergent boxes from my friends and groze over them, but this sounds even neater! Thanks Sparks. Maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 19:44:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 19:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nj1.aae.com!mercedes From: Barb/Joe W To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Kudos to Dan!!! Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 22:23:25 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980508222325.0069f724@nj1.aae.com> Precedence: bulk Not only are you true to your word. You're super fast and created a really nifty page. BTW that vase is no slouch either. My wife immediately gave me the...Gee, I'd like to have one of those..treatment. Thanks...Joe ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 20:39:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 20:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com Subject: Re: Rondels Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 22:39:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May8.183929.0> References: <<1998May8.12202.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani, I know that they used to have them years ago at S.A. Bendheim. (Not cheap by any stretch of the imagination, though.) Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Fri, 8 May 1998 16:20:02 -0400 "Michael J. Greer" writes: >Hi All- > >Had a customer in today in need >of about a dozen 12-inch clear >rondels. Does anyone know of a >source for these. Thanks! > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 21:08:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 20:14:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: kristc@home.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: chat room Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 23:10:51 EDT Message-ID: <1998May9.31051.0> Precedence: bulk We do have a good time...but its an AOL chat room. I dont know of anyway you can come in unless your a member. there is a partial membership that you can get through AOL if you have another server... Litredtruk@aol.com is such a member if interested you might e-mail him for details.... The Puzz >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 21:25:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 20:42:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: Whispy Blu To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Bungi Gallery Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 23:41:18 EDT Message-ID: <1998May9.34118.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks Dan for your time and effort to bring the site of beautiful glass work by bungi folks. The works were beautiful!! Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 22:43:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 22:24:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, dodgestudio@juno.com Subject: Re: Rondels Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 01:21:38, -0500 Message-ID: <199805090521.BAA10584@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Dani, I know that they used to have them years ago at S.A. Bendheim. (Not cheap by any stretch of the imagination, though.) Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs<< Right on the mark. S. A. Bendheim (800 900-3499, FAX 510 535-6600) catalogs clear rondels up to 4 3/4" diameter. Note says "Other sizes and colors may be ordered. These rondels are stated to be brillant handspun German rondels. My guess is $40.00 each. Good luck, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com* for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 8 23:13:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 8 May 1998 22:37:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re:Rondels Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 01:34:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May8.213442.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, Dani Greer wrote: <> Suggest Blenko Glass at http://www.citynet.net/blenko/ They have all kinds of rondels. James C. Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Saturday, May 09, 1998 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 01:43:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 01:28:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: Barb/Joe W Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Kudos to Dan!!! Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 04:30:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May9.03046.0> References: <<3.0.3.32.19980508222325.0069f724@nj1.aae.com>> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk Excellent start!! Can't wait to see the finished product. Rick http://home.fuse.net/crafts/ Barb/Joe W wrote: > > Not only are you true to your word. You're super fast and created a really > nifty page. > > BTW that vase is no slouch either. My wife immediately gave me the...Gee, > I'd like to have one of those..treatment. > > Thanks...Joe > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 05:52:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 05:24:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp18.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Gallery form, again Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 08:17:37 -0400 Message-ID: <199805091217.IAA00907@ppp18.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Somebody ask me to post the form again. BTW, Daniel was a prophet in the old testament --best remembered for his friendship with lions. Dan, on the other hand, was one of the children of Israel, and the initiator of one the 12 tribes of Israel which bears his name and was not a prophet. The bible argues that the meaning of their names is the same --only more explicit in Daniel. But they are different nonetheless. I prefer to be seen as a prophet, rather than ultra-fertile grand-dad. If 6 letters are too many for some of you, type "dmg" instead. barefoot dmg ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Instructions to submit an image to the gallery 1. Fill in the form underneath. 2. Attach an image of the figure. Please, try to save it as a JPEG file, it will be smaller. Send it at a decent "displayable" resolution. Lets say, approx. 500 pixels in size. 3. Send the message to "dmg@aries27.uwaterloo.ca", PLEASE, send it to dmg@aries27.uwaterloo.ca, and not to dmg@csg... Thanks a lot! dmg ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Artist's Name: Artist's URL: Title: Date: Description: Other: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Daniel M. German "Work. Finish. Publish. " Michael Faraday http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 06:13:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 05:30:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 1st.net!glasqult From: Joni Tornwall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Rondels Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:32:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May9.33245.0> References: <<1998May8.213442.0>> Precedence: bulk If you buy rondels from Blenko, you may have to buy in bulk (50 at a time or something like that). I have ordered Blenko rondels through Meredith Stained Glass before and have been very pleased with the rondels and the service. Joni > < of about a dozen 12-inch clear > rondels. Does anyone know of a > source for these. Thanks!>> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 06:49:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 06:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: unforgettable.com!shorelineglassworks From: NCScouter To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Rondels Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:16:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May9.11646.0> Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. Precedence: bulk To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com Subject: Re: Rondels Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 22:39:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May8.183929.0> References: <<1998May8.12202.0>> Dani, In my experience, about the only place that carries rondels of that size would be Blenko Glass. They have a web site with more info too. V T Phelps >---- writes: >Hi All- > >Had a customer in today in need of about > a dozen 12-inch clear rondels. Does anyone > know of a source for these. Thanks! > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---------------------------------------------------- Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. * Email * ICQ#:4862021 * WWPager * EmailExpress <4862021@pager.mirabilis.com> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 07:49:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 07:31:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: Afhulsey@aol.com, Alexev@aol.com, ANDCHR1@aol.com, ArcticKat@aol.com, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Dont Forget Tonights SG chat :) Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 10:30:27 EDT Message-ID: <1998May9.143027.0> Precedence: bulk SAT CHAT REMINDER (: Happy Mother's Day :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SHOW OFF PICS Are attached to e-mail... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ REQUESTS Please Send in May Birthdays! The Pic Monster needs more pics.. WE'RE running out of pics!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GLASS SIGHTS Our Stained Glass Gallery http://csg.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/glass/gallery/ The Corning Museum of Glass http://www.pennynet.org/glmuseum/corningm.htm Wissmach Glass Company http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/wissmach/home.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GLASS PATTERNS Pattern 5 http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/patterns/pattern5.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MEETING TIME/PLACE Stained Glass (Click here for chat room) WED/SAT Eastern 9pm Central 8pm Mountain 7pm Pacific 6pm EMAIL TO: puzzykatz@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 12:16:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 11:49:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Dolphin Pattern Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 11:47:54 -0700 Message-ID: <199805091847.LAA24383@ark.com> Precedence: bulk Howdy group, Does anyone have a pattern (nice one) of dolphins for sandlast etching into a mirror? I have a 2X3 foot mirror with a curved top that my daughter wants etched and I can't find a good etching pattern out there. Thanks for your help, gang...... wayne Wayne Munro 'Snail mail' address 2960 Suffield Road, Courtenay, B.C. Canada V9N-3V5 ICQ # 2762376 Phone and Fax-- (250) 338-5507 "Call before sending a fax so setup is complete" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 14:17:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 14:01:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: Whispy Blu To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: problem solving (aka organizing) Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 16:58:08 EDT Message-ID: <1998May9.20588.0> Precedence: bulk This is for the world's best problem solvers, aka bungi members. I have starting reorganizing my studio and came up with various boxes of bevels (all shapes, sizes, etc.) I would prefer, rather than have them boxed (out of sight, out of mind or can't find the right one when I need it), I would like to have them organized in such a way that I can see what I have by merely opening a lid. I want to keep them wrapped individually to avoid scratching. The only idea that came to mind was using the clear "shoe" boxes and wrap each one in plastic wrap (this reminds me of the no-brainer task of foiling). All ideas are welcome. Thanks! Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 14:46:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 14:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: Whispy Blu To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Patina stain Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 17:14:09 EDT Message-ID: <1998May9.21149.0> Precedence: bulk An associate of mine spilled patina on her brown counter top. There is now a white cloudy area where the patina landed. Anyone have a suggestion on how to restore the counter top? Thanks! Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 15:52:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 15:12:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Whispy Blu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Patina stain Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 18:10:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May9.141017.0> References: <<1998May9.21149.0>> Precedence: bulk I would call my insurance company and check to see if my policy covered the damage. Goldpaws Whispy Blu wrote: > An associate of mine spilled patina on her brown counter top. There is now a > white cloudy area where the patina landed. Anyone have a suggestion on how to > restore the counter top? > > Thanks! > > Lu Ann > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 17:19:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 16:50:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: white particle in finished panel Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 00:47:33 +0000 Message-ID: <199805092348.AAA29449@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Sue, et al, The white particles you have been experiencing are quite natural. It's lead oxide that creeps out onto the surface. You will find it quite regularly on "new" lead. (and indeed with solder containing a fairly high lead content) Depending on air humidity it will be experienced to a greater or lesser extent. But it is perfectly natural and to be expected. To treat: Yes it IS worth keeping under control. Initially wipe it down with a very slightly dampened cloth and ensure you also clean the glass around where the oxide "weeps". It tends to do it in patches ( i.e. not regular). Leave the lead to breathe and "weep" for a month or two, keep on wiping it gently. Then polish it up with a VERY (!) fine wire wool and apply a polish (sorry... but I come back to the old and trusted UK stove black / grate polish which I have used for YEARS and does the job an absolute treat). Hope I have helped.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Sue asked: I am fairly new at stained glass. After I finish a panel I was it, then apply a glass finishing compound. I have noticed that several days later I will have white particles in the seams. I have tried polishing a long time followed by a toothbrush scrub over the seams to try and prevent this from happening, but it still does. Any suggestions, I must be doing something wrong. Thanks ---- ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 19:56:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 19:17:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: WhispyBlu@aol.com Subject: Re: Patina stain Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 22:11:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May9.181140.0> References: <<1998May9.21149.0>> Precedence: bulk Well LuAnn, You could try "The Stain Remove That Really Works" by Novacan, but your associate should test it first in an unseen location. I have used it to take rust stains out of a cotton shirt and disolve junk from manufacturing errors by the original makers, out of glass, but I have also "used" it to disolve the carpeting on my glass stripping table! Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Sat, 9 May 1998 17:14:09 EDT Whispy Blu writes: >An associate of mine spilled patina on her brown counter top. There >is now a >white cloudy area where the patina landed. Anyone have a suggestion >on how to >restore the counter top? > >Thanks! > >Lu Ann >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 20:15:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 19:22:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: oxford.net!tmr From: "Teresa Ross" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: polishing Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 21:48:33 -0700 Message-ID: <199805100148.VAA23397@server1.oxford.net> Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm new to the list and stained glass. I have bee making angels and I was wondering about shining the lead afterwards. Is there any trick to this. I have polish but it doesn't seem to be working to well. The angels look great but the lead looks dull. thanks for any help teresa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 21:27:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 21:01:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Bio# 18 Melissa Thaxton Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 23:03:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May9.18325.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BD7B9E.ABF8CB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was born in California, When I was 10 days old we moved to Wichita = Kansas. When I was three we moved to Virginia. Then to Massachusetts, where I = spent most of my childhood. For this reason I love the east coast. I = love the green vegetation. The beautiful flowers & the season's. I have lived in California, Kansas, Colorado, Nevada, Virginia & Massachusetts. I have been to 48 of the 51 States. I went to a Community College in Nevada. This is where I learned the = art of Stained Glass, by the second class I had my first panel done. I = have entered 2 art shows and won 1st 2nd & third prizes with my glass = work. I have worked for NEC Electronics for the past 11 1/2 years. making = silicon wafers that look like dichromatic glass. I lost my Father at 16, and my Mother at 31, I lost a sister 2 weeks = after my Mom when I was 31 weeks pregnant with my first baby. I have a = sister who was hit by a drunk driver and is brain damaged. I have a Loving husband who supports me emotionally and 2 beautiful = daughters ages 1 and 5 years old. I have come to an inspirational block but am going through a s#$@ load = of stress at work and I think this is much of it. I have a 25 gallon fish tank with African Cichlid tropical fish that the = colors of them would blow your mind. I love my fish. I enjoy reading the bungi mail, it keeps me going. Integrity is the backbone of the soul. "Can you really look yourself in = the mirror and like what you see. If you can't you better tell the = truth." Words I live by. Love peace and light . Melissa ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BD7B9E.ABF8CB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was born in California, When I was 10 days old we moved to = Wichita=20 Kansas.
When I was three we moved to Virginia.  Then to = Massachusetts,=20 where I spent most of my childhood. For this reason I love the east = coast. =20 I love the green vegetation.  The beautiful flowers &  the = season's.

I have lived in California, Kansas,  Colorado, = Nevada,=20 Virginia &
Massachusetts.  I have been to 48 of the 51=20 States.

I went to a Community College in Nevada.  This is = where I=20 learned the art of Stained Glass, by the second class I had my first = panel done.=20 I have entered 2 art shows and won 1st 2nd & third prizes with my = glass=20 work.

I have worked for NEC Electronics for the past 11 1/2 = years. making=20 silicon wafers that look like dichromatic glass.

I lost my Father = at 16,=20 and my Mother at 31, I lost a sister 2 weeks after my Mom when I was 31 = weeks=20 pregnant with my first baby. I have a sister who was hit by a drunk = driver and=20 is brain damaged.

I have a Loving husband who supports me = emotionally and=20 2 beautiful daughters ages 1 and 5 years old.

I have come to an=20 inspirational block but am going through a s#$@ load of stress at work = and I=20 think this is much of it.

I have a 25 gallon fish tank with = African=20 Cichlid tropical fish that the colors of them would blow your = mind.  =20 I love my fish.

I enjoy reading the bungi mail, it keeps me=20 going.

Integrity is the backbone of the soul.  "Can you = really=20 look yourself in the mirror and like what you see.  If you can't = you better=20 tell the truth."  Words I live by.

Love peace and light = .

          &nbs= p;            = ;           =20 Melissa
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BD7B9E.ABF8CB20-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 21:46:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 21:11:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Bio# 19 Dorothy Jean Sedlor Kalahan Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 23:11:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May9.181132.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01BD7B9F.CE18F300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Name : Dorothy Jean Sedlor Kalahan Born : 1950 in Chicago, oldest of 5 children. Was about 2 years old when we left Chicago. Lived in Bremerton and Seattle, WA; Salt Lake = City and Magna, UT; Ithaca NY; Burlington and So. Burlington VT; a few = months in Daytona Beach FL. Parents celebrate their 50th anniversary = this year! Married : for 27 years to John. Met while in college, University of Vermont. Since married, have lived in Lake placid NY and a couple of places in Connecticut. Children : 2. Oldest a computer techie, youngest in high school (just got her driver's license ).=20 Work: Presently a Library tech in the medical library at the Univ. of Connecticut. Part time instructor of mathematics at the area community = colleges (Also have MA in math). Have also written and sold true = romance type stories (So you can believe this as you wish.) Distinguishing characteristics : Six feet tall, gray hair, glasses. Glass : John and I went to a glass store because we were thinking of = putting colored glass in an outdoor lantern. Ended up signing up for = lessons. We work in smaller, portable items that we sell at craft fairs. Don't make a lot of money at it, but it supports the habit. John has been spending the last couple of months going through our pattern files and doing them up on the Glass Eye and getting them filed neatly. I'm dreaming up new stuff. When you do shows in the same area, you have to keep fresh. Hobbies : well, I love horse racing and ice skating (but I only watch skating now...there's virtually no outdoor skating in Connecticut.) John is presently caught up in March Madness (College basketball playoffs) Future plans : Learn HTML! Grade tests! Learn some Woodworking. Dorothy K ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01BD7B9F.CE18F300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Name :  Dorothy Jean Sedlor Kalahan
 
Born :  1950 in Chicago, oldest of 5 children.  Was about = 2 years=20 old
when we left Chicago.  Lived in Bremerton and Seattle, WA; = Salt Lake=20 City and Magna, UT;  Ithaca NY; Burlington and So. Burlington VT; a = few=20 months in Daytona Beach FL. Parents celebrate their 50th anniversary = this=20 year!

Married : for 27 years to John.  Met while in college,=20 University
of Vermont.  Since married, have lived in Lake placid = NY and=20 a
couple of places in Connecticut.

Children : 2.  Oldest a computer techie, youngest in high = school=20 (just
got her driver's license ).

Work:  Presently a Library tech in the medical library at = the=20 Univ. of
Connecticut.  Part time instructor of mathematics at = the area=20 community colleges (Also have MA in math).  Have also written and = sold true=20 romance type stories  (So you can believe this as you wish.)

Distinguishing characteristics : Six feet tall, gray hair,=20 glasses.

Glass :  John and I went to a glass store because we were = thinking=20 of putting colored glass in an outdoor lantern.  Ended up signing = up for=20 lessons.  We work in smaller, portable items that we sell at=20 craft
fairs.  Don't make a lot of money at it, but it supports = the=20 habit.
John has been spending the last couple of months going = through
our=20 pattern files and doing them up on the Glass Eye and getting
them = filed=20 neatly.  I'm dreaming up new stuff.  When you do shows
in = the same=20 area, you have to keep fresh.
 
Hobbies : well, I love horse racing and ice skating (but I only=20 watch
skating now...there's virtually no outdoor skating in=20 Connecticut.)
John is presently caught up in March Madness (College=20 basketball
playoffs)

Future plans : Learn HTML!  Grade tests!  Learn = some =20 Woodworking.

Dorothy K
------=_NextPart_000_005D_01BD7B9F.CE18F300-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 9 23:27:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 9 May 1998 22:52:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Whispy Blu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: problem solving (aka organizing) Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 01:50:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May9.215028.0> References: <<1998May9.20588.0>> Precedence: bulk Don't have to open the lid!! Wrap one in plastic or clear contact paper and glue or tape onto the front of "shoe box".Put the number of bevels that are contained in box on that bevel. Inside -use tissue paper between each one. Goldpaws Whispy Blu wrote: > This is for the world's best problem solvers, aka bungi members. I have > starting reorganizing my studio and came up with various boxes of bevels (all > shapes, sizes, etc.) I would prefer, rather than have them boxed (out of > sight, out of mind or can't find the right one when I need it), I would like > to have them organized in such a way that I can see what I have by merely > opening a lid. I want to keep them wrapped individually to avoid scratching. > The only idea that came to mind was using the clear "shoe" boxes and wrap each > one in plastic wrap (this reminds me of the no-brainer task of foiling). All > ideas are welcome. > > Thanks! > > Lu Ann > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 10 09:36:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 10 May 1998 09:07:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Repost of Bio# 19 Dorothy Jean Sedlor Kalahan Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 11:07:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May10.6713.0> Precedence: bulk Name : Dorothy Jean Sedlor Kalahan Born : 1950 in Chicago, oldest of 5 children. Was about 2 years old when we left Chicago. Lived in Bremerton and Seattle, WA; Salt Lake City and Magna, UT; Ithaca NY; Burlington and So. Burlington VT; a few months in Daytona Beach FL. Parents celebrate their 50th anniversary this year! Married : for 27 years to John. Met while in college, University of Vermont. Since married, have lived in Lake placid NY and a couple of places in Connecticut. Children : 2. Oldest a computer techie, youngest in high school (just got her driver's license ). Work: Presently a Library tech in the medical library at the Univ. of Connecticut. Part time instructor of mathematics at the area community colleges (Also have MA in math). Have also written and sold true romance type stories (So you can believe this as you wish.) Distinguishing characteristics : Six feet tall, gray hair, glasses. Glass : John and I went to a glass store because we were thinking of putting colored glass in an outdoor lantern. Ended up signing up for lessons. We work in smaller, portable items that we sell at craft fairs. Don't make a lot of money at it, but it supports the habit. John has been spending the last couple of months going through our pattern files and doing them up on the Glass Eye and getting them filed neatly. I'm dreaming up new stuff. When you do shows in the same area, you have to keep fresh. Hobbies : well, I love horse racing and ice skating (but I only watch skating now...there's virtually no outdoor skating in Connecticut.) John is presently caught up in March Madness (College basketball playoffs) Future plans : Learn HTML! Grade tests! Learn some Woodworking. Dorothy K ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 10 09:59:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 10 May 1998 09:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Repost of Bio# 18 Mellisa Thaxton Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 11:02:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May10.6226.0> Precedence: bulk Originally post in HTML now in plain text. I was born in California, When I was 10 days old we moved to Wichita Kansas. When I was three we moved to Virginia. Then to Massachusetts, where I spent most of my childhood. For this reason I love the east coast. I love the green vegetation. The beautiful flowers & the season's. I have lived in California, Kansas, Colorado, Nevada, Virginia & Massachusetts. I have been to 48 of the 51 States. I went to a Community College in Nevada. This is where I learned the art of Stained Glass, by the second class I had my first panel done. I have entered 2 art shows and won 1st 2nd & third prizes with my glass work. I have worked for NEC Electronics for the past 11 1/2 years. making silicon wafers that look like dichromatic glass. I lost my Father at 16, and my Mother at 31, I lost a sister 2 weeks after my Mom when I was 31 weeks pregnant with my first baby. I have a sister who was hit by a drunk driver and is brain damaged. I have a Loving husband who supports me emotionally and 2 beautiful daughters ages 1 and 5 years old. I have come to an inspirational block but am going through a s#$@ load of stress at work and I think this is much of it. I have a 25 gallon fish tank with African Cichlid tropical fish that the colors of them would blow your mind. I love my fish. I enjoy reading the bungi mail, it keeps me going. Integrity is the backbone of the soul. "Can you really look yourself in the mirror and like what you see. If you can't you better tell the truth." Words I live by. Love peace and light . Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 10 10:04:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 10 May 1998 09:38:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Scraps Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 12:37:52 -0400 Message-ID: <199805101637.MAA13987@aries17.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Some time ago somebody asked about what to do with scraps. Given that I have been building 2 lamps as my last projects, I was going to respond that Tiffany lamps are a very good way to use scrap. The more detailed the design in the lamp, the smaller the pieces. Today, I was reading about Tiffany windows: "Today the public associates Tiffany primarily with lamps, yet the Studios' Lamp Shop evolved in the 1890 from the excess glass that had accumulated during many years of window production. The decision to manufacture lamps was a commercial one: to tulize the offcuts of glass with had been too small to incorporate into windows. " Tiffany Windows by A. Duncan -- Daniel M. German "There is no democracy in physics. We can't say that some second-rate guy has as much right to opinion. Luiz Alvarez -> as Fermi" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 10 16:11:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 10 May 1998 15:50:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Teresa Ross Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: polishing Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 18:49:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May10.144926.0> References: <<199805100148.VAA23397@server1.oxford.net>> Precedence: bulk Teresa Ross wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm new to the list and stained glass. I have bee making angels and I was > wondering about shining the lead afterwards. Is there any trick to this. I > have polish but it doesn't seem to be working to well. The angels look > great but the lead looks dull. > > thanks for any help > teresa > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i would probably use a dremel with a polshing wheel in it, nylon or felt should work. just don't leave it in one place for too long or it will melt. also wear a resperator (sp?), of some kind or you make suck in some lead dust. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 11 09:19:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 11 May 1998 08:56:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz From: Elaine To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Decals???? Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:56:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May11.45647.0> Precedence: bulk Does anybody know of a supplier for decals? Thanks for help. Elaine ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 11 10:56:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 11 May 1998 10:33:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: Witchdoc3@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Chip disposal Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:30:30 EDT Message-ID: <1998May11.173030.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-08 16:17:20 EDT, you write: > The other night I hit on a nifty way (if I say so myself) to keep all those > annoying itty bitty glass chips under control when I'm cutting. > you must be talking about when you are grozing, I usually do that over a large coffee can. Snap on the lid when its full and toss. Milk jug seems like a good idea too. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 11 11:20:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:03:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: MIA Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:55:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May11.95551.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk Am I MIA? Haven't received any posts for 2 days. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 11 13:48:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:39:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: globalnet.co.uk!aareg From: "Tony Regan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Paris Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:29:42 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May11.222942.0> Precedence: bulk We are off to Paris for a week [18th May to 25th May] and stopping over one night in London for the Chelsea Flower Show Please take me off the list for this time. Do Bungians know of any "must see" glass objects, galleries, or workshops we might visit? Regards to all Tony and Barbara Regan Cornwall UK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 11 16:28:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 11 May 1998 15:52:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Paris Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805112214.SAA19892@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Tony, Have a wonderful time!!!! Yes glass galore...Sainte Chappelle a definite must. I think Notre Dame is still closed. There is a church behind the Louvre that has been in restoration should be done by now. And if you have a few hours...........take the train from Paris to Chartre you won't be dissapointed. I have loads of other glass sites..............if you want the addresses. Just let me know. my best, pj >We are off to Paris for a week [18th May to 25th May] >and stopping over one night in London for the Chelsea Flower Show >Please take me off the list for this time. >Do Bungians know of any "must see" glass objects, galleries, or workshops we >might visit? > >Regards to all > >Tony and Barbara Regan >Cornwall UK > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 11 17:22:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 11 May 1998 16:55:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Klmxklm From: Klmxklm To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Heavy Metal Soap Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:52:26 EDT Message-ID: <1998May11.235226.0> Precedence: bulk I am a relatively new attachment to the "bungi" group. In following your discussion concerning the hazards of working with lead/lead-containing materials and the precautions one should observe, I didn't see the use of "heavy metal" soap mentioned as a precaution. As I understand it, this soap is supposed to be much more efficient in removing lead residues from hands (for those of us who do not/can not/will not wear gloves) than regular soap. If anyone has the information, I would appreciate knowing of a supply source of this soap where one doesn't have to buy a large amount. Thanks. Mike PS I anticipate certain replies referring in some way to music or rock concerts!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 11 18:23:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Stnglsgrn From: Stnglsgrn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Soap Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:09:46 EDT Message-ID: <1998May12.1946.0> Precedence: bulk The heavy metal soap is available from Sasha's Inc. 4325 N. Murray Ave. Milwaukee, WI 53211-1624 414-962-8228 They are suppliers and require a 50.00 min order. thay will also include a formular for indicating the presents of lead on you hands or table surface be sure to ask for this if you order. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 11 19:55:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 11 May 1998 19:32:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: searchengine-help.com!webmaster From: To: Subject: Your web site... Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 12:53:30 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Would you like to improve your website's "find-ability" in the Search Engines? During the past two years, my company has been placing hundreds of webpages into the Top Ten -- the front page -- of the major search engines... and for a small fee, I will show you how we do it... and I'll share with you our ongoing research -- every month! My name is Stephen Mahaney. I am the president of Planet Ocean Communications. My web marketing company has literally "written the book" on how to position your website on the front page -- the Top Ten -- of each of the major search engines... guaranteed! Our 65 page manual identifies every trick & technique that is being used on the Internet to gain an almost "unfair" advantage in landing websites at the top of the search engine lists -- right where you need to be so that potential customers who are seeking your services or products can find you. Our monthly Newsletter keeps you abreast of the latest techniques and frequent changes that take place in the dynamic world of "search engine" science. However, understanding the process does not require a degree in "rocket" science -- nor do you need to be "technically oriented". Whether your website is a "do-it-yourself" project or you are paying someone to maintain your site, you (or your webmaster) need to know the tricks in this book in order to compete with the professionals who are dominating the front pages of the various search categories. To learn more about how you can obtain this essential information and receive a free subscription to our Newsletter -- SEARCH ENGINE SECRETS UPDATE, go to....   http://www.searchengine-help.com/sebook/ You'll be glad you did. Sincerely, Stephen Mahaney - President Planet Ocean Communications *************************************************** Note: We have contacted you based on information that we gathered while visiting your website - If you would prefer not to receive mail from us in the future, simply reply with the word "remove" in the subject line and you will be automatically excluded from future correspondence. Thanks *************************************************** Thought for the day... "The only thing a man can take beyond this lifetime is his ethics" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 11 22:26:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 11 May 1998 21:56:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Zinc Came Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:40:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May11.204040.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, a question about cleaning and = finishing a panel with zinc came. I have followed advice on bungi to use a dishwashing detergent and baking soda to remove flux residue. I apply the cleaning solution after adding the zinc came and rather rapidly see a discoloration of the zinc begin. Looks like a dulling of the surface shine, loss of luster and the beginning of a pitting process. Is it the baking soda attacking the zinc? Removes with = simchrome and elbow grease. More elbow grease than I think reasonable. Any comments welcome. James C. Kelly Virginia Beach VA 75522.645@CompuServe.com 5/12/98. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 08:05:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 07:51:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen From: David Cogen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Work away from workbench Date: Tue, 12 May 98 10:49:20 -0400 Message-ID: <9805121049.AA21495@LL.MIT.EDU> References: <<1998May5.65814.0>> Precedence: bulk > Hi, I am a beginner and will take a beginner's lesson in a week. My > question is, can anything having to do with stained glass work, be done > away from your primary workbench area? In other words, any busy work you > could take with you, that you could do without all the numerous tools? Pattern cutting. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 09:12:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 08:35:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.det-freepress.com!newman From: "Heather Newman" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Interior lead panel, putty/not? Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:36:58 +0000 Message-ID: <1998May12.113658.0> Organization: Detroit Free Press Precedence: bulk We're making a large panel (30x70 or so) for an interior door, using rebar set into slots in the door frame for additional strength. Two questions: My husband's big on the idea of using zinc came for this project, because of the whole lead issue, but I'm afraid that a) it won't go well in our 1936 house and b) it'll rattle because of the additional came stiffness. Thoughts? Second, should we putty this thing, since it'll move? Or do we have to worry, since it'll never be exposed to the elements? Thanks for your input. Heather ---------------------------------------- Heather Newman, Detroit Free Press newman@det-freepress.com 313-223-3336 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 09:44:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 08:37:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.det-freepress.com!newman From: "Heather Newman" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: 2nd question: Insta-Heat iron?? Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:39:31 +0000 Message-ID: <1998May12.113931.0> Organization: Detroit Free Press Precedence: bulk I'm in the market for a more-than-capable-of-large-copper-foil-panels iron. I'm not concerned about temperature control, as I have a decent rheostat, and in fact would prefer a wider range of control. But I'm having trouble finding a decent iron that a) is powerful enough, with a large enough standard tip, and b) doesn't include some kind of temperature control (aka the Weller tips) already. One alternative: this 1000-degree Inland Insta-Heat ceramic thingy. Anybody used it? It looks great, supposed to be nearly instant-on, but uses ceramic heating elements rather than a wire wrap. Anyone? My catalogs are starting to get dog-eared. Heather ---------------------------------------- Heather Newman, Detroit Free Press newman@det-freepress.com 313-223-3336 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 10:10:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 09:28:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Chip disposal Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:26:40 EDT Message-ID: <1998May12.162640.0> Precedence: bulk Deb said: > you must be talking about when you are grozing Yup. > I usually > do that over a large coffee can. Snap on the lid when its > full and toss. Milk jug seems like a good idea too. I was using a can for a while, but got a little paranoid about possibly knocking it over (I can be a bit uncoordinated at times; I'm on medication that sometimes makes me shaky). The smaller neck of the "funnel" thing keeps things contained better in case that happens. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 11:44:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 11:15:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aracnet.net!bigcreek From: Wayne Parks To: Klmxklm Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9A6BEDFCC2E8197771D8D2DC" Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Soap Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:06:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May12.8646.0> References: <<1998May11.235226.0>> Organization: Big Creek Studio Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9A6BEDFCC2E8197771D8D2DC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-UNICODE-2-0-UTF-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The soap that you are referring to is called "CLEAN-ALL. It is distributed by Sasha's Inc., 4325 North Murray Av., Milwaukee, WI., 53211-1624. (414) 962-8228 It is available in 16oz. squeeze bottle, 2500ml. dispenser bottle, one gal. container with optional pump, 5 gal. pail, or 55 gal. drum. Supposed to remove lead, zinc, cobalt, aluminium, mercury, allium, copper, and nickel. I buy mine wholesale from Hollander Glass, Canada . You should be able to get it at any retail stained glass supplier. Hope that this helps, Wayne Parks Big Creek Studio To bring the dead to life Is no great magic. Few are wholly dead: Blow on a dead mans embers And a live flame will start. Robert Graves --------------9A6BEDFCC2E8197771D8D2DC Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=x-UNICODE-2-0-UTF-7; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Wayne Parks Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Wayne Parks n: Parks;Wayne org: Big Creek Studio email;internet: bigcreek@aracnet.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;-28288 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------9A6BEDFCC2E8197771D8D2DC-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 13:45:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 13:22:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4 From: Beveler 4 To: newman@det-freepress.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Interior lead panel, putty/not? Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:19:01 EDT Message-ID: <1998May12.20191.0> Precedence: bulk On the contrary I have done many a restoration of old windows from the twenties and thirties and many of them were fabricated with zinc came, the majority of them were colonial zinc. The problem with colonial zinc is there is no room for error with the glass fitting. And as for the question of cementing the inside window, by all means yes this will not only stop the rattling of the window but it is also a crucial part of the support system for this type of window especially with the size that you are talking about.The cementing process will add a lot of strength to your window.Back to the zinc, all of the Frank Lloyd Wright windows of that period were done with mostly flat zinc, he used many different sizes in the same window as part of the design feature. I think that zinc would be fine as a choice for that inside door,IMO. Beveler4@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 14:51:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 14:26:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Heather Newman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: 2nd question: Insta-Heat iron?? Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 17:22:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May12.132244.0> References: <<1998May12.113931.0>> Precedence: bulk Heather Newman wrote: > > I'm in the market for a more-than-capable-of-large-copper-foil-panels > iron. I'm not concerned about temperature control, as I have a > decent rheostat, and in fact would prefer a wider range of control. > But I'm having trouble finding a decent iron that a) is powerful > enough, with a large enough standard tip, and b) doesn't include some > kind of temperature control (aka the Weller tips) already. One > alternative: this 1000-degree Inland Insta-Heat ceramic thingy. > Anybody used it? It looks great, supposed to be nearly instant-on, > but uses ceramic heating elements rather than a wire wrap. > > Anyone? My catalogs are starting to get dog-eared. > > Heather > ---------------------------------------- > Heather Newman, Detroit Free Press > newman@det-freepress.com > 313-223-3336 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i heard that it does'nt work that well, get an ungar (one piece heater unit). the screw on tip model does'nt get as hot. they're a little pricey, but worth it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 15:57:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 15:38:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Interior lead panel, putty/not? Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:04:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May12.11429.0> Precedence: bulk I putty all panels...It gives strength to the panel which is especially helpfull in door panels.. You might try a little black patina to darken up the zinc... Just wipe off excess pretty quick so it doesnt get to dark... As with all things try in on scrap zinc 1st to see how it works... Byron... Wells Glassworks -----Original Message----- From: Heather Newman To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 3:25 AM Subject: Interior lead panel, putty/not? >We're making a large panel (30x70 or so) for an interior door, using >rebar set into slots in the door frame for additional strength. Two >questions: > >My husband's big on the idea of using zinc came for this project, >because of the whole lead issue, but I'm afraid that a) it won't go >well in our 1936 house and b) it'll rattle because of the additional >came stiffness. Thoughts? > >Second, should we putty this thing, since it'll move? Or do we have >to worry, since it'll never be exposed to the elements? Thanks for >your input. > >Heather >---------------------------------------- >Heather Newman, Detroit Free Press >newman@det-freepress.com >313-223-3336 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 16:37:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 15:56:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: Heather Newman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Interior lead panel, putty/not? Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:59:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May12.145911.0> References: <<1998May12.113658.0>> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk Heather, I think you are on the right track using zinc, it'll look fine for tha era of home. Second, IMHO, most definitly putty or cemet the window, especially if it is in a door. Rick http://home.fuse.net/crafts/ Heather Newman wrote: > > We're making a large panel (30x70 or so) for an interior door, using > rebar set into slots in the door frame for additional strength. Two > questions: > > My husband's big on the idea of using zinc came for this project, > because of the whole lead issue, but I'm afraid that a) it won't go > well in our 1936 house and b) it'll rattle because of the additional > came stiffness. Thoughts? > > Second, should we putty this thing, since it'll move? Or do we have > to worry, since it'll never be exposed to the elements? Thanks for > your input. > > Heather > ---------------------------------------- > Heather Newman, Detroit Free Press > newman@det-freepress.com > 313-223-3336 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 20:09:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 19:43:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lisnet.net!karinal From: Karina To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Zinc Came Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:38:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May12.183855.0> References: <<1998May11.204040.0>> Precedence: bulk James C. Kelly wrote: > Hi, a question about cleaning and = > > finishing a panel with zinc came. > I have followed advice on bungi > to use a dishwashing detergent > and baking soda to remove flux > residue. I apply the cleaning > solution after adding the zinc > came and rather rapidly see a > discoloration of the zinc begin. > Looks like a dulling of the surface > shine, loss of luster and the > beginning of a pitting process. > Is it the baking soda attacking > the zinc To begin with, I would have to assume your project was not cemented. You would never/ever wash a cemented panel ! ( my students ask me this question all the time ). What I use on my panels, when not cemented, is the soft bristle brush which I use to" dry and clean" the panels which I have cemented in the past. It works great and I have never had a problem. I t has always cleaned the flux off the joints, without leaving a film. I advise against using any kind of detergent...and I'm talking about products labelled "detergent"....because they will leave a sticky film on your solder...as you found out.....and this is very true for copper foiled projects. If you want to get solder seams clean..at a cheap price...try using "Brasso"...found at any grocery store. It works great. You'll be amazed how dirty the solder is because your cloth will be black with all the impurities found in the flux and the solder........Karina ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 20:31:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 19:43:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sympatico.ca!brunner_walker From: Deb & Doug Walker To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Looking for kayak scene Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:43:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May12.184310.0> References: <<9805121049.AA21495@LL.MIT.EDU>> Precedence: bulk I'm planning on doing a panel for a wedding gift and am looking for a pattern with a water scene and a kayak. Has anyone seen such a beast? Any suggestions would be appreciated. TIA Deb mailto:brunner_walker@sympatico.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 20:47:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 20:15:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lisnet.net!karinal From: Karina To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2CBF598F74186BCE37EAFECB" Subject: Re: Interior lead panel, putty/not? Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:37:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May12.183712.0> References: <<1998May12.11429.0>> Precedence: bulk --------------2CBF598F74186BCE37EAFECB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Byron Wells wrote: > You might try a little black patina to darken up the zinc... Just wipe off > excess pretty quick so it doesnt get to dark... As with all things try in on > scrap zinc 1st to see how it works... > > Byron... > Wells Glassworks > > Byron Have to tell them that black patina is labelled "for zinc"....or have you used the regular one meant for lead with good results?....Karina --------------2CBF598F74186BCE37EAFECB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Byron Wells wrote:

You might try a little black patina to darken up the zinc... Just wipe off
excess pretty quick so it doesnt get to dark... As with all things try in on
scrap zinc 1st to see how it works...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks
 
 

  Byron

Have to tell them that black patina is labelled  "for zinc"....or have you used the regular one meant for lead with good results?....Karina --------------2CBF598F74186BCE37EAFECB-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 12 21:40:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 12 May 1998 21:09:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: unforgettable.com!shorelinelgassworks From: V T Phelps To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: 2nd question: Insta-Heat iron?? Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:05:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May12.1754.0> Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. Precedence: bulk Dear Heather, For wide-variety usage plus long period endurance and heat I lust LOVE my Hakko Super Pro (Model 456, 1000degree, 60 watt,) iron. If you're wanting to really spend some moola for a lead-duty restoration-capable iron, you may wish to check out Esico or Hexacon, (Hexacon being my personal fav.) The irons by these two companies irons have a selection of tips ranging in width from 3/8" up to 1/2". Ciao for now~ V T Phelps > I'm in the market for a more-than-capable-of-large-copper-foil-panels > iron. I'm not concerned about temperature control, as I have a > decent rheostat, and in fact would prefer a wider range of control. > But I'm having trouble finding a decent iron that a) is powerful > enough, with a large enough standard tip, and b) doesn't include some > kind of temperature control (aka the Weller tips) already. One > alternative: this 1000-degree Inland Insta-Heat ceramic thingy. > Anybody used it? It looks great, supposed to be nearly instant-on, > but uses ceramic heating elements rather than a wire wrap. > Anyone? My catalogs are starting to get dog-eared. > Heather ----- Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. Roanoke Island NC USA * ICQ#: 4862021 * WWPager * EmailExpress <4862021@pager.mirabilis.com> * Email ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 02:11:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 01:30:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Subject: [Fwd: Re: 2nd question: Insta-Heat iron??] Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 04:30:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May13.03034.0> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <3558D506.180A@fuse.net> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:02:30 -0400 From: Rick Lasita Reply-To: pebble@fuse.net Organization: Window Art GLass Studio X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Savad" CC: Heather Newman Subject: Re: 2nd question: Insta-Heat iron?? References: <<1998May12.113931.0>> <1998May12.132244.0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently upgraded to an Ungar Iron with the screw in tip and love it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I heard that Weller bought out the Ungar line. Rick http://home.fuse.net/crafts/ M. Savad wrote: > > Heather Newman wrote: > > > > I'm in the market for a more-than-capable-of-large-copper-foil-panels > > iron. I'm not concerned about temperature control, as I have a > > decent rheostat, and in fact would prefer a wider range of control. > > But I'm having trouble finding a decent iron that a) is powerful > > enough, with a large enough standard tip, and b) doesn't include some > > kind of temperature control (aka the Weller tips) already. One > > alternative: this 1000-degree Inland Insta-Heat ceramic thingy. > > Anybody used it? It looks great, supposed to be nearly instant-on, > > but uses ceramic heating elements rather than a wire wrap. > > > > Anyone? My catalogs are starting to get dog-eared. > > > > Heather > > ---------------------------------------- > > Heather Newman, Detroit Free Press > > newman@det-freepress.com > > 313-223-3336 > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > i heard that it does'nt work that well, get an ungar (one piece heater > unit). the screw on tip model does'nt get as hot. they're a little > pricey, but worth it. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added > and My Updated Shop Photo's > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 09:13:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 08:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Solder Iron screws loose Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:57:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May13.7579.0> Precedence: bulk My soldering iron has a screw on collar that holds the tip in and as I = work, it loosens and I loose heat. And it's a bear to tighten when it's = hot. Burns my rag.I don't know what I'm doing to make this happen. Just = the action of changing sides of the tip I guess. Anyone else have this = problem and a solution/ Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 09:39:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 08:58:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: glasstreasures.com!sgt From: Stephanie Hansen To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: UK folks Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:56:51 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980513105651.0084e850@glasstreasures.com> Precedence: bulk Had an inquiry from my web site from a fellow in the UK looking to buy a window for his parents' anniversary, and I told him I'd see if any of our UK folks were interested. He says he's in the Birmingham area West Midlands and would prefer someone in that area, but his brother is in London and could help him out if any of the UK folks are in that area. I know of course that Elizabeth and Elisabeth are in the UK, but not sure where in relation to West Midlands, and I know we have other UK members as well, but same thing with not knowing the relative location. So if anyone in the UK is interested, please e-mail me OFF-list, and I'll pass all names on to this fellow for him to contact directly. Let me know your area of the UK as well - won't mean anything to me, but I can pass it along to him. Thanks! Steph ~ ----------------------------------- Stephanie Hansen - Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX Affordable stained glass pieces for gifts or personal use Enter the sweepstakes to win a stained glass suncatcher! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 09:45:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: polishing Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805131617.JAA20648@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Teresa, Kempro polish works for me, if you need something stronger try autosol, it's more of a cutting polish and then use the Kempro. Smiles, Cindy > >Teresa Ross wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I'm new to the list and stained glass. I have bee making angels and I was >> wondering about shining the lead afterwards. Is there any trick to this. I >> have polish but it doesn't seem to be working to well. The angels look >> great but the lead looks dull. >> >> >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 10:15:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:19:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: white particle in finished panel Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805131616.JAA23846@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > > >Hi Guys, It's the zinc chloride that weeps out from the flux and it can happen up to months later. The cleaner that will neutralize the zinc chloride is called tsp, tri sodium phosphate, found at hardware stores. Smiles, Cindy > > > > >Sue asked: >I am fairly new at stained glass. After I finish a panel I was it, then >apply a glass finishing compound. I have noticed that several days >later I will have white particles in the seams. I have tried polishing >a long time followed by a toothbrush scrub over the seams to try and >prevent this from happening, but it still does. Any suggestions, I must >be doing something wrong. Thanks >---- > >---- > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 10:17:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Linda Campbell" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Solder Iron screws loose Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:48:18 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May13.24818.0> Precedence: bulk Locktite makes products for keeping screws tight. Auto parts store (no current affiliation) may sell it and EVEN be able to tell you something about using and un-doing the process. Another method is to use a self-tapping screw, but over all the hole will gradually enlarge, and require bigger and bigger screws but a long term change. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 11:14:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Linda Campbell" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Solder Iron screws loose Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:48:18 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May13.24818.0> Precedence: bulk Locktite makes products for keeping screws tight. Auto parts store (no current affiliation) may sell it and EVEN be able to tell you something about using and un-doing the process. Another method is to use a self-tapping screw, but over all the hole will gradually enlarge, and require bigger and bigger screws but a long term change. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 11:16:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 10:04:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Solder Iron screws loose Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805131704.KAA18698@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Linda, Try loctite on it!! My husband uses it when things like that want to come apart and it works. Smiles, Cindy > >My soldering iron has a screw on collar that holds the tip in and as I = >work, it loosens and I loose heat. And it's a bear to tighten when it's = >hot. Burns my rag.I don't know what I'm doing to make this happen. Just = >the action of changing sides of the tip I guess. Anyone else have this = >problem and a solution/ > >Linda Campbell >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 11:49:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 11:15:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: intel.com!lynice.spangler From: "Spangler, Lynice" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: getting rid of oxidation question Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:14:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May13.41433.0> Precedence: bulk If Brasso works, would Tarn-X work? Has anyone tried this? I tried it (Tarn-X) for the first time recently on a copper bracelet and some silver jewelry and was amused to find it worked just like the ad. I'm sure it would remove all previously applied patina (as I assume Brasso does), but it might be a great way to prep the solder and remove oxidation. Sounds like an experiment is in order... L. Spangler From owner-glass Wed May 13 12:09:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 11:18:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Solder Iron screws loose Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:20:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May13.102052.0> References: <<1998May13.7579.0>> Precedence: bulk Maybe I wasn't real clear. There is no screw. The collar that fitS over the shoulder on the tip is threaded (female) and screws onto the iron (male) This connection is like a pipe fitting. I was a draftsman for many years and in the old days before mechanical pencils, we were taught to rotate the pencil as we drew so as to make the lines consistant in width. Maybe, I'm still doing that with the iron, though the cord is not tangled. It's just that the metal on both the collar and the iron seems so rough and it's a new iron. I guess the heat keeps any sort of lubricant from being an option. Linda Campbell wrote: > > My soldering iron has a screw on collar that holds the tip in and as I = > work, it loosens and I loose heat. And it's a bear to tighten when it's = > hot. Burns my rag.I don't know what I'm doing to make this happen. Just = > the action of changing sides of the tip I guess. Anyone else have this = > problem and a solution/ > > Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 12:16:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 11:20:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: Afhulsey@aol.com, Alexev@aol.com, ANDCHR1@aol.com, ArcticKat@aol.com, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Wed. (TONIGHT) SG chat....2 Birthdays? Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:19:56 EDT Message-ID: <1998May13.181956.0> Precedence: bulk SAT CHAT REMINDER ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (: Happy Birthday Don :) (Glassma1 5/13/?) (: Happy Birthday Jacque :) (Saguaro187 5/14/?) Just how old are you two anyway.....hmmmmm? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ON THE SUBJECT OF LEAD Subj: Heavy Metal Soap Date: 98-05-11 20:22:56 EDT From: Klmxklm@aol.com (Klmxklm) To: glass@bungi.com I am a relatively new attachment to the "bungi" group. In following your discussion concerning the hazards of working with lead/lead-containing materials and the precautions one should observe, I didn't see the use of "heavy metal" soap mentioned as a precaution. As I understand it, this soap is supposed to be much more efficient in removing lead residues from hands (for those of us who do not/can not/will not wear gloves) than regular soap. If anyone has the information, I would appreciate knowing of a supply source of this soap where one doesn't have to buy a large amount. Thanks. Mike Subj: Re: Heavy Metal Soap Date: 98-05-11 21:24:09 EDT From: Stnglsgrn@aol.com (Stnglsgrn) To: glass@bungi.com The heavy metal soap is available from Sasha's Inc. 4325 N. Murray Ave. Milwaukee, WI 53211-1624 414-962-8228 They are suppliers and require a 50.00 min order. thay will also include a formular for indicating the presents of lead on you hands or table surface be sure to ask for this if you order. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SHOW OFF PICS Are attached to e-mail... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ REQUESTS Will the "Glass Junkies" that are in the mystery pic please raise your paws.......Thankyou! Send in May Birthdays! What are you working on?.......Send us a pic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GLASS SIGHTS Stained Glass Warehouse--Your online stained ... http://www.stainedglasswarehouse.com/ Wheeler 4" glass oil diffusion vacuum pump http://www.inficad.com/~wheelerglass/ HiGlass http://www.wt.com.au/~rdeint/footer.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GLASS PATTERNS 6rAikOen3H7lZZJV-vimYQnk2.jpg at www.stainedg... http://www.stainedglasswarehouse.com/wgl/7b/6rAikOen3H7lZZJV-vimYQnk2.jpg ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MEETING TIME/PLACE Stained Glass (Click here for chat room) WED/SAT Eastern 9pm Central 8pm Mountain 7pm Pacific 6pm EMAIL TO: puzzykatz@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 12:48:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:25:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: WTB: Home Sweet Home pattern book Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:26:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May13.112659.0> Precedence: bulk Hey folks, I have been looking for the pattern book, "Home Sweet Home" by Dione = Roberts but it is out of print. Anyone have a copy that they would be = willing to sell?=20 It has patterns of panels, fan pulls, suncatchers and a glass wind sock. = I am specifically interested in the fan pull patterns and directions. = The book or any part of would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Linda Campbell lcbell@memach.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 14:14:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 13:59:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Solder Iron screws loose Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805132057.NAA29159@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > > >Hi Linda, >You may not want to use loctite!! I'm assuming that you need to take it apart to change the tip now and again:) I would suggest that while it's been on retighten the collar, as the heat maybe causing it to expand. Infact when I change my tip I turn it on first for awhile and then undo it. Sorry for the "loctite idea" as it probably works for life, what a bummer that would be. Smiles, Cindy >>Maybe I wasn't real clear. There is no screw. The collar that fitS over >>the shoulder on the tip is threaded (female) and screws onto the iron >>(male) This connection is like a pipe fitting. I was a draftsman for >>many years and in the old days before mechanical pencils, we were taught >>to rotate the pencil as we drew so as to make the lines consistant in >>width. Maybe, I'm still doing that with the iron, though the cord is not >>tangled. It's just that the metal on both the collar and the iron seems >>so rough and it's a new iron. I guess the heat keeps any sort of >>lubricant from being an option. >> >> >> Linda Campbell wrote: >>> >>> My soldering iron has a screw on collar that holds the tip in and as I = >>> work, it loosens and I loose heat. And it's a bear to tighten when it's = >>> hot. Burns my rag.I don't know what I'm doing to make this happen. Just = >>> the action of changing sides of the tip I guess. Anyone else have this = >>> problem and a solution/ >>> >>> Linda Campbell >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 14:43:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:20:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Linda Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Solder Iron screws loose Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:17:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May13.131734.0> References: <<1998May13.7579.0>> Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > My soldering iron has a screw on collar that holds the tip in and as I = > work, it loosens and I loose heat. And it's a bear to tighten when it's = > hot. Burns my rag.I don't know what I'm doing to make this happen. Just = > the action of changing sides of the tip I guess. Anyone else have this = > problem and a solution/ > > Linda Campbell > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass is it from inland? what happened to mine is the collar coroded so that no matter how tight it was, it was always loose. they have a fix for it, the collar is now thicker. you would need to contact inland, or your stained glass store. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 15:12:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:46:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Looking for kayak scene Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:44:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199805132145.WAA21147@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Deb & Doug, There are some nice "sea/water-scapes" in the pattern-book "Wild Life of the North" (mentioned elsewhere in Bungi over the last 6 months). I'll dig out the ISBN No, once I have found my own copy. A kayak is basically a simple shape, especially if it is placed in the water. Any illustrated encyclopedia should give you a decent picture of one. There are also a few delicious water scenes in the "Oriental Design Stained Glass Pattern Book", by Richard Ott which you could modify. The Chinese and Japanese have a wonderful way of depicting water... ISBN 0-486-25229-9 But maybe you wanted more "familiar representations".... Hope this is helpful. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Deb asked; I'm planning on doing a panel for a wedding gift and am looking for a pattern with a water scene and a kayak. Has anyone seen such a beast? Any suggestions would be appreciated. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 15:37:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Solder Iron screws loose Date: Wed, 13 May 98 14:55:38 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<199805132057.NAA29159@ns2.vphos.net>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > You may not want to use loctite!! I'm assuming that you need to take it > apart to change the tip now and again:) I would suggest that while it's been > on retighten the collar, as the heat maybe causing it to expand. Infact when > I change my tip I turn it on first for awhile and then undo it. > Sorry for the "loctite idea" as it probably works for life, what a bummer > that would be. > Smiles, Cindy actually loctite comes in different colors. each color is for a different application: ie, red might be permanent, blue is removable, green is difficult to remove, etc. since this is all plastics, the heat might make it not work anyway. the problem occurs because the 2 pieces of metal are different metals, each having their own expansion/contraction properties. there isn't much you can do, unless you want to drill a small hole in one side, tap it, and add a small set screw. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 13 18:47:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 13 May 1998 18:27:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nj1.aae.com!mercedes From: Barb/Joe W To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:Solder Iron screws loose Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 21:22:35 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980513212235.006a1e18@nj1.aae.com> Precedence: bulk Try using a pair of pliers to tighten it up. When I'm in a hurry to change tip sizes, I loosen the collar up with the pliers, put the hot tip in an ashtray, install the other tip and get back to work. Ain't it hell having a screw loose??? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 14 06:17:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 14 May 1998 05:58:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Solder Iron screws loose Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:55:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May14.45538.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Linda Campbell >My soldering iron has a screw on collar that holds the tip in and as I =3D= work, it loosens and I loose heat. And it's a bear to tighten when it's =3D= hot. Burns my rag.I don't know what I'm doing to make this happen. Just =3D= the action of changing sides of the tip I guess. Anyone else have this =3D= problem and a solution< You can purchase a new screw collar. Also, use pliers to tighten the screw collar while the tip is hot, and you'll not burn the rag. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 14 08:21:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 14 May 1998 07:25:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: FW: Home Sweet Home pattern book Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:27:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May14.6277.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks to everyone for all the help looking for this book. W/C had in in = stock and I have ordered it. Doesn't explain why local shop and Delphi = aid it was out of print when what they should have said was "out of = stock" Thanks again, Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 14 08:22:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 14 May 1998 07:29:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: First Lamp Shade Completed Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:32:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May14.6328.0> Precedence: bulk I just finished my first lamp shade, a 12 sided panel for a lamp base = that was my grandmother's. It was a real learning experience since I = drew the design as well. I looks pretty nice, was a simple design, each = panel just 13 pieces. It took a lot of lead though, about 2 pounds. That = makes the shade a wee bit heavy for the base which is a hollow vase. I = think I will either place lead ingot or sand in the base to ballast it. = Thanks to everyone and especially Howard for the advise and support. = When the photos come back I place one in the gallery. Next project, some = simple lamp shades made for mason jar bases and some fan pulls. Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 09:53:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 09:46:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry & Linda McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:43:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980515164335.00673cb0@mail.kwic.com> Precedence: bulk This is a test GARRY & LINDA McKENNA TILLSONBURG ONT CANADA 519 842-9909 LINDA'S HOBBY: STAINED GLASS GARRY'S HOBBY: AMATURE RADIO CALL VE3MNV ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 12:25:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 11:53:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Gallery, revisited. Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:48:37 -0400 Message-ID: <199805181448.KAA00772@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805081958.PAA10910@aries17.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Hi everybody, The gallery has been expanded. I have added works by Cindy and Linda. I'd like to hear suggestions on what we should do once the gallery starts to grow. Do you want different categories or should we keep only the most recent works? Brainstorm. also, since several people have been asking me about the instructions, I have added a page with instructions. Link at the bottom of the gallery. I hope they are straightforward. -- Daniel M. German "You can't trust code that you did not totally create yourself (Especially code from companies Ken Thompson -> that employ people like me.)" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 13:23:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 12:59:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry & Linda McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:56:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980515195627.00698000@mail.kwic.com> Precedence: bulk Yeah - figgerd this was one way to find out if it was me or the rest of the world. Linda At 01:50 PM 15/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >Sending a message because it's been so awfully quiet? I was starting to >wonder myself. > >:) Jerri > > >On Fri, 15 May 1998 12:43:35 -0400 Garry & Linda McKenna > writes: >>This is a test >>GARRY & LINDA McKENNA >> TILLSONBURG ONT CANADA >> 519 842-9909 >> >> LINDA'S HOBBY: STAINED GLASS >> GARRY'S HOBBY: AMATURE RADIO CALL VE3MNV >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > GARRY & LINDA McKENNA TILLSONBURG ONT CANADA 519 842-9909 LINDA'S HOBBY: STAINED GLASS GARRY'S HOBBY: AMATURE RADIO CALL VE3MNV ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 14:07:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:38:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: chescom.net!don From: Don McDonald To: "Daniel M. German" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gallery, revisited. Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:37:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May15.103748.0> References: <<199805181448.KAA00772@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Daniel, Once there are more than a few pieces submitted, I recommend categorizing the glass, or at least dividing it up into separate pages and then keeping the submissions up indefinitely. Don M. McDonald Daniel M. German wrote: > > Hi everybody, > > The gallery has been expanded. I have added works by Cindy and > Linda. I'd like to hear suggestions on what we should do once the > gallery starts to grow. Do you want different categories or should we > keep only the most recent works? Brainstorm. > > also, since several people have been asking me about the instructions, > I have added a page with instructions. Link at the bottom of the > gallery. I hope they are straightforward. > > -- > Daniel M. German "You can't trust code that > you did not totally create > yourself > (Especially code from companies > Ken Thompson -> that employ people like me.)" > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 14:43:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 14:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!lydia From: "Lydia" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:13:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May15.131353.0> Precedence: bulk Hi I am getting all kinds of conflicting information concerning putting a temperature control on my Weller 100 watt already temperature controlled iron and would like bungi's input so that I can decide weather to do it or bite hard and buy another iron or use my expensive Weller and still have it work with out a temp control. I want to do some decorative soldering and was told that I couldn't do it with out a temperature control since the solder should only be 450 degrees and the tip for the weller 100 is 600 degrees. ... So I bought it the temp control that is) and now my instructor tells me that I might burn out my Iron if I use it, but the retail store that I purchased the temp control from said I could use the Weller Iron, that he has been using one for 12 years. Both of these people I respect highly but now I am very confused and hesitate on using the iron. I have only been doing glass since October of 1997 and being a hobby I really would like to keep my costs as low as possible (not saying professionals want to spend all their profit on equipment either .. wink wink). So what's the story with the Weller P100's? Can I use a temp control on it to decorate or just go by a cheap iron or another expensive Iron or what? HELP Please Love, Light, and Laughter Lydia lydia@voicenet.com http://www.voicenet.com/~lydia ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 15:50:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 15:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:12:00 EDT Message-ID: <1998May15.22120.0> Precedence: bulk 1) There are three different thicknesses of foil. What are the purposes for each? 2) Why do you need to stretch lead came? What's the best way to stretch it? How do you know when you've stretched enough? Thankyou to all you Glass Pros :) The Puzz >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 16:08:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 14:52:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: Whispy Blu To: lydia@voicenet.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:50:27 EDT Message-ID: <1998May15.215027.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 5/15/98 4:44:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time, lydia@voicenet.com writes: << now my instructor tells me that I might burn out my Iron if I use it, but the retail store that I purchased the temp control from said I could use the Weller Iron, that he has been using one for 12 years. >> Hi Lydia! I have been receiving the same contradictory information for over 4 years. I have been using the Weller 100 on a rheostat for those 4 years and it hasn't burned it out yet. I know this doesn't really answer your question directly, but it's the best example/answer I can give you. Maybe I've just been fortunate. Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 16:34:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 15:33:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nospam.citynet.net!ZorPrime From: Zor Prime To: Lydia Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:33:58 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May15.113358.0> References: <<1998May15.131353.0>> Organization: Gamma Force - http://www.gammaforce.org Precedence: bulk Lydia wrote: > > Hi > I am getting all kinds of conflicting information concerning putting a > temperature control on my Weller 100 watt already temperature controlled > iron and would like bungi's input so that I can decide weather to do it or > bite hard and buy another iron or use my expensive Weller and still have it > work with out a temp control. Hi Lydia, I have seen warnings in catalogs to NEVER use another temperature controller on a Weller 100. It will burn out the irons built in controller. You can use a rheostat on a Weller 80, but not a 100. I have no experience with decorative soldering, so can not advise you on what to buy. I'm sure someone else will be able to help with that. Good luck, Kathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 17:16:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 16:06:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp04.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Gallery address Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:07:10 -0400 Message-ID: <199805132307.TAA00596@ppp04.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Sorry, I forgot to add the address: http://csg.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/glass/gallery Enjoy, -- Daniel M. German "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable Arthur C. Clarke -> from magic." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 18:01:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 16:19:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp04.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:19:47 -0400 Message-ID: <199805132319.TAA00616@ppp04.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998May15.22120.0>> Precedence: bulk PUZZY KATZ twistes the bytes to say: PUZZY> 1) There are three different thicknesses of foil. What are the purposes for each? I am newbie, but I think I can handle --at least-- part of this answer. There are several reasons, I'd categorize: 1. Different thickness of the glass require different foil widths. Kind of obvious. 2. Different thickness of the solder came. Some works require stronger joints and thicker foil can provide stronger joints (to a certain extend, as I have said before, there a point in which a wider solder will be weaker). For instance, a Tiffany lamp requires thinner joints than a flat panel. 3. Different effects in the glass. Tiffany initiated this. In the past, paint was used to convey detail in a window. Tiffany started to use solder to convey detail using solder lines of different widths. Look at some of his work and it will become obvious what I am saying. PUZZY> Thankyou to all you Glass Pros :) >From a glass-mateur daniel -- Daniel M. German "In science, read, by preference, the newest works; in literature, Georges Leclerc Buffon -> the oldest." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 18:21:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 16:30:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: PUZZY KATZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:26:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May15.152657.0> References: <<1998May15.22120.0>> Precedence: bulk PUZZY KATZ wrote: > > 1) There are three different thicknesses of foil. > What are the purposes for each? > > 2) Why do you need to stretch lead came? What's the best way to stretch it? > How do you know when you've stretched enough? > > Thankyou to all you Glass Pros :) > > The Puzz >^..^< > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the thickness and sizes i tried to describe on my page http://www.geocities.com/paris/1141 so check there. though i don't work with lead, i do know that if you don't stretch it first, it will stretch later. and if it's later, everything will sag and fall out. i've see lead lamps done like this. if there going to use lead for a lamp, at least they can strech it first. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 19:46:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 17:43:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Romajoco From: Romajoco To: WhispyBlu@aol.com, lydia@voicenet.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 20:43:11 EDT Message-ID: <1998May16.04311.0> Precedence: bulk << lydia@voicenet.com writes: << now my instructor tells me that I might burn out my Iron if I use it, but the retail store that I purchased the temp control from said I could use the Weller Iron, that he has been using one for 12 years. >> >> Lydia, I agree with LuAnn. I have a Weller 100 that I have had a very long time....about the last 6 years I have had it on a temperature control rheostat (not spelled correctly) and I am still using it with no problem. In fact, my retail store is the one that suggested it. Margie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 20:23:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 18:21:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts From: Melanie Dunstan To: Stnglsgrn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dr Bob/Heavy Metal Soap Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:40:12 +0800 Message-ID: <1998May13.84012.0> References: <<1998May12.1946.0>> Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services Precedence: bulk Stnglsgrn wrote: > > The heavy metal soap is available from > Sasha's Inc. > 4325 N. Murray Ave. > Milwaukee, WI 53211-1624 > 414-962-8228 > They are suppliers and require a 50.00 min order. > thay will also include a formular for indicating the presents of lead on you > hands or table surface be sure to ask for this if you order. > ---- Gidday Y'all! As a hand-crafted soapmaker in one of my parallel lives, I'm fascinated with this... There is/was a very knowledgeable bloke on the list who might be able to help further, too - heya Dr Bob, scientist extraordinaire! You there? What think? -- Catcha Melanie Dunstan, in Perth, Australia ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 20:24:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 17:58:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!crzylynna From: "Lynn Alchin" To: Subject: Leaded panel repairs Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:04:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May15.11422.0> Precedence: bulk Hi! I have an 8 ft x 3 ft. panel that I did for a client. It's only my 3rd lead piece that I've done. When the guy went to install it, he cracked a piece right on the edge. When he took it down, he stepped on an edge and broke a piece that runs the entire width of the window, and about aft. from the top. I have NO IDEA HOW TO FIX IT !!! Can anyone tell me what the steps are to fixing it???? The leads are 1/4" reinforced H came, and it is framed in 1/2" U Zinc. Thanks! Lynn Crzylynna@email.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 20:47:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 18:28:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805160128.SAA14727@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk HI PUZZ, AND WHAT THE HECK IS PUZZ SHORT FOR?? (IT'S A CUTE NAME.) I'LL JUST ADD TO BAREFOOT...SEEMS HE FORGOT HE'S:):) CAME STRETCHES ABOUT 6" AND YOU'LL KNOW WHEN IT'S FINISHED IT CAN LAND YOU ON YOUR ASS (SORRY GUYS). THE REASON BEING IS IT'LL SAG IF YOU DON'T. I'VE SEEN A "CAMED" LAMP FROM MEXICO (REALLY SORRY BAREFOOT) THAT HAD SAGGED TO THE POINT THAT IT WAS LOOSING IT'S GLASS PIECES. MY FRIEND HAD ONE AND WOKE UP TO SEE IT ONE THE TABLE...READY FOR BREAKFAST!!! I PULL IN A COUPLE OF SERIES OF STRECHES..TILL IT PULLS NO MORE. SMILES, CINDY PUZZY KATZ ASKED THE QUESTION HOW COME???? >2) Why do you need to stretch lead came? What's the best way to stretch it? > How do you know when you've stretched enough? > >Thankyou to all you Glass Pros :) > >The Puzz >^..^< >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 20:57:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 18:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Gallery, revisited. Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805160147.SAA09114@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >HI BAREFOOT!! I WANT TO SEE MORE OF OUR FELLOW BUNGIANS WORK, (GET YOUR BUTTS MOVING PLEASE AND SEND IN SOME PHOTOS) I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE TO BE UP FOR LONG MAYBE FEATURED A MONTH AND THEN SUBMIT A NEW ONE???? WHILE I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK OUT, I'D LIKE TO SAY TO EVERYONE WHO HAS PUT IN A PICTURE TO BAREFOOT "GREAT STUFF GUYS" IT'S VERY NEAT TO READ EVERYONE BIO AND IT'S VERY NEAT TO SEE "WHAT IT IS YOU'RE DOING OR SHOULD I SAY HAVE DONE!!!" SMILES, CINDY PS; THIS COMES FROM SOMEONE WHO'S AFRAID TO SHOW THEIR WORK AND WILL BE THE FIRST ONE TO POINT OUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT!!!! > > > > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 21:19:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 19:10:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:08:59 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980515220857.0072b0ec@mail.bright.net> Precedence: bulk At 07:19 PM 5/13/98 -0400, Daniel M. German wrote: > >PUZZY KATZ twistes the bytes to say: > > PUZZY> 1) There are three different thicknesses of foil. > What are the purposes for each? > > I am newbie, but I think I can handle --at least-- part of this >answer. > >There are several reasons, I'd categorize: > >1. Different thickness of the glass require different foil widths. Kind of obvious. The three thickness I feel that she is referring to are the 1.0 ml the 1.5 ml and the 3 ml thickness of the foil rather than the width. I tell my students to buy 1.0 ml for panels and 1.5 ml for suncatchers. If your design is right the thickness of the foil should not matter because there won't be stress on the foil after it is soldered. But on some suncatchers there is stress on the foil and the thickness helps....a little. In the long run, I really think that the thickness of the foil is not a big deal. Attaching rings to just the foil is a bad idea anyway and should always be applied to a seam. But I have done some cardinal designs that there was absolutely no seam to attach to that would make the thing hang straight and in that case, I have attached to the foil and it has worked ok because it is a very small size. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran Ohio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 21:27:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 20:00:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp04.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Thickness :) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:59:29 -0400 Message-ID: <199805160259.WAA00667@ppp04.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Hi everybody, I can see how dumb I am. We were asked for foil's thickness and I responded about foil's width. I am sorry :) -- Daniel M. German "Speak not about what you have read, Azerbaijani Proverb -> but about what you have understood." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 21:45:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 20:16:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: New Discovery Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:17:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May15.171712.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD804F.35D40120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A while ago someone was asking about how to polish the solder to a = brilliant this product did it. Hope this helps. Recently went to a large discount store and saw a product that was new = to me. It is a polishing paste called MAAS. The box says it polishes all = metals, glass, Plexiglas, and more. Tonight I had a few minutes and = tried it on a brass urn I have and it worked great. Took it to my = workbench and tried it out on an old SG piece that is solder is quite = tarnished (this is the same piece I tried the Kiwi polish on for you old = timers). Using very little elbow grease, the solder came out looking = like chrome. Putting it to a further test I put it on the whispy glass, = then the glue chip, then the iridescent and .... WOW. I have never seen = glass this clean and shiny. The iridescent almost glowed even in the = florescent light of the garage. Tried to put a fingerprint smuge on it = and it didn't show. The cost was about $2.50 for a 2 oz tube (about the same size as a = medium tube of toothpaste). The company is MAAS Polishing Systemes Inc., = PO Box 128, La Grange, IL 60525. This is supposed to be an international = company so perhaps our friends from the UK and Down-Under, and Costa = Rico, and ...... can purchase it locally Patrick Roses and Rainbows PS HHHmmmmmm maybe I could be on a "Infommercial" for them? ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD804F.35D40120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A=20 while ago someone was asking about how to polish the solder to a = brilliant this=20 product did it. Hope this helps.
 
Recently went to a large discount = store and saw=20 a product that was new to me. It is a polishing paste called MAAS. The = box says=20 it polishes all metals, glass, Plexiglas, and more. Tonight I had a few = minutes=20 and tried it on a brass urn I have and it worked great. Took it to my = workbench=20 and tried it out on an old SG piece that is solder is quite tarnished = (this is=20 the same piece I tried the Kiwi polish on for you old timers). Using = very little=20 elbow grease, the solder came out looking like chrome. Putting it to a = further=20 test I put it on the whispy glass, then the glue chip, then the = iridescent and=20 .... WOW. I have never seen glass this clean and shiny. The iridescent = almost=20 glowed even in the florescent light of the garage. Tried to put a = fingerprint=20 smuge on it and it didn't show.
 
The cost was about $2.50 for a 2 oz = tube (about=20 the same size as a medium tube of toothpaste). The company is MAAS = Polishing=20 Systemes Inc., PO Box 128, La Grange, IL 60525. This is supposed to be = an=20 international company so perhaps our friends from the UK and Down-Under, = and=20 Costa Rico, and ...... can purchase it locally
 
 
Patrick
Roses and Rainbows
 
PS HHHmmmmmm maybe I could be on a=20 "Infommercial" for them?
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD804F.35D40120-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 22:05:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 20:26:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nobleco.net!glass From: "Wallace, Paul" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: thermostat iron Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 23:25:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May15.192558.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BD8058.D0CB3E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would suggest AGAINST using a termostat on an iron that already had = one built in. The temperature is controlled by lowering the voltage. = As the voltage goes down the amperage requirements of the iron will = increase (Ohms Law) The added load demand on the built in thermostat = could cause it to burn out. There should be no problem using a = thermostat on a 100 W iron that does not have a thermostat. Also some = thermostats may regulate the power by sending pulses of power. This too = could kill a second thermostat. Maby everyone how has done this has = been lucky??? Paul KB8PZQ Bumblebee Stained Glass Caldwell, Ohio ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BD8058.D0CB3E60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would suggest AGAINST using a = termostat on an=20 iron that already had one built in.  The temperature is controlled = by=20 lowering the voltage.  As the voltage goes down the amperage = requirements=20 of the iron will increase  (Ohms Law)  The added load demand = on the=20 built in thermostat could cause it to burn out.  There should be no = problem=20 using a thermostat on a 100 W iron that does not have a thermostat. Also = some=20 thermostats may regulate the power by sending pulses of power.  = This too=20 could kill a second thermostat.  Maby everyone how has done this = has been=20 lucky???
 
 
Paul
KB8PZQ
 
Bumblebee Stained Glass
Caldwell, = Ohio
------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BD8058.D0CB3E60-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 22:27:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 20:21:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nobleco.net!glass From: "Wallace, Paul" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 23:19:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May15.191937.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Romajoco To: WhispyBlu@aol.com ; lydia@voicenet.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 11:04 PM Subject: Re: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control > > ><< lydia@voicenet.com writes: > > << now my instructor tells me that I might burn > out my Iron if I use it, but the retail store that I purchased the temp > control from said I could use the Weller Iron, that he has been using one > for 12 years. >> > >> >Lydia, > >I agree with LuAnn. I have a Weller 100 that I have had a very long >time....about the last 6 years I have had it on a temperature control rheostat >(not spelled correctly) and I am still using it with no problem. > >In fact, my retail store is the one that suggested it. > >Margie >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 22:35:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 20:57:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: lydia@voicenet.com Subject: Re: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 23:57:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May15.195712.0> References: <<1998May15.131353.0>> Precedence: bulk Lydia, There is no reason to fear that a temperature control will damage your Weller 100 Watt iron. The whole secret to the iron is that there is a metal plug inside the tip that expands out the back of the tip and pushes on a switch inside the iron. When the temperature gets hot enough to expand the plug sufficiently, it pushes the switch cutting off the current. As it cools, the plug contracts and lets the switch close again, turning the iron back on. If you use a temperature control with it, it just will not get hot enough to expand the plug and turn itself off. No problem.. At this point it is exactly like any other iron on a temperature control. No harm done. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Fri, 15 May 1998 17:13:53 -0400 "Lydia" writes: >Hi > I am getting all kinds of conflicting information concerning >putting a >temperature control on my Weller 100 watt already temperature >controlled >iron and would like bungi's input so that I can decide weather to do >it or >bite hard and buy another iron or use my expensive Weller and still >have it >work with out a temp control. > I want to do some decorative soldering and was told that I >couldn't do >it with out a temperature control since the solder should only be 450 >degrees and the tip for the weller 100 is 600 degrees. ... So I bought >it > the temp control that is) and now my instructor tells me that I might >burn >out my Iron if I use it, but the retail store that I purchased the >temp >control from said I could use the Weller Iron, that he has been using >one >for 12 years. > Both of these people I respect highly but now I am very confused >and >hesitate on using the iron. I have only been doing glass since October >of >1997 and being a hobby I really would like to keep my costs as low as >possible (not saying professionals want to spend all their profit on >equipment either .. wink wink). So what's the story with the Weller >P100's? >Can I use a temp control on it to decorate or just go by a cheap iron >or >another expensive Iron or what? HELP Please > >Love, Light, and Laughter >Lydia >lydia@voicenet.com >http://www.voicenet.com/~lydia > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 22:48:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 21:31:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Leaded panel repairs Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 21:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805160429.VAA26122@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >HI LYNN, BEST TO SHOOT HIM, NO,NO I'LL GET SERIOUS. SOUNDS LIKE YOU'LL BE REPLACING THE ZINC,LEAD AND THE GLASS, BUT FIRST WHAT I'D DO IS TRY TO CUT THE ZINC AT AN INTERCONNECTING JOINT WITHIN THE EDGE OF THE PANEL TO LATER CONNECT TO. AND THEN USE A DREMEL TO CUT THRU THE ZINC. UNLESS YOU CAN LOOSEN IT BACK FAR ENOUGH TO GET AT THE GLASSWORK,.... SOMETIMES IT BENDS TOO MUCH TO REUSE. WORKING OUT THE CAME FROM THE EDGE IS EASY, UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE HORIZONTAL BREAK ACROSS THE GLASS A FOOT DOWN FROM THE TOP WOULD NEED TO BE TAKEN OUT STEP BY STEP FROM THE EDGE AT THE TOP..... "IMHO". IF YOU HAVE THE PATTERN PIECES LEFT FROM THE ORIGINAL THAT'S GREAT, BUT IF NOT YOU CAN STILL WORK IT OUT OKAY. THIS HAS HAPPEN TO ME WHEN A CLIENT WAS TRANSPORTING A 6' ROOM DIVIDER IN THE BACK OF HIS TRUCK, IT HAD BEEN INSERTED IN IT'S FRAME BY ME AND HE WANTED IT LYING DOWN INSTEAD OF STANDING UP. WE BOTH LEARNT SOMETHING AND I HAD TO REPLACE THE BROKEN PIECES AND HE WAS VERY HAPPY TO PAY SINCE I WAS RIGHT!!! HOPE THIS HELPS AND I'VE BEEN ABLE TO EXPLAIN MYSELF CORRECTLY. BUMMER THAT HE STEP ON IT!!! SMILES,CINDY >LYNN WRITES; >Hi! I have an 8 ft x 3 ft. panel that I did for a client. It's only my >3rd lead piece that I've done. When the guy went to install it, he >cracked a piece right on the edge. When he took it down, he stepped on >an edge and broke a piece that runs the entire width of the window, and >about aft. from the top. I have NO IDEA HOW TO FIX IT !!! Can anyone >tell me what the steps are to fixing it???? >The leads are 1/4" reinforced H came, and it is framed in 1/2" U Zinc. >Thanks! >Lynn > >Crzylynna@email.msn.com > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 22:53:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 21:36:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Leaded panel repairs Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 21:36:14 -0700 Message-ID: <199805160436.VAA17320@norm.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi! I have an 8 ft x 3 ft. panel that I did for a client. It's only my >3rd lead piece that I've done. When the guy went to install it, he >cracked a piece right on the edge. When he took it down, he stepped on >an edge and broke a piece that runs the entire width of the window, and >about aft. from the top. I have NO IDEA HOW TO FIX IT !!! Can anyone >tell me what the steps are to fixing it???? >The leads are 1/4" reinforced H came, and it is framed in 1/2" U Zinc. >Thanks! >Lynn Lynn, First, I'd cuss the guy out for being such a clutz and make sure you make arrangements for payment for repairs since this is all clearly HIS fault, not yours. This is an interesting question...first off I'm not sure why your design would have one piece that runs from side to side of the piece...I would think that having a line run through it would have been better for strength. So, I think what I would do is the following: 1) smash out the broken piece 2) cut the zinc cames 3) unsolder the zinc cames from the vertical edges and discard. A pair of pliers works wonders in holding the zinc came and moving it away from the window as you melt the solder. Be careful not to melt the lead as you do this...keep your iron on the zinc as it will absorb more heat than the lead came. (An alternate here would be to reuse the came, but I think it would be messy looking came...so my inclination would be to replace it. Guess it depends on things like personal choice, how far you are from a supplier, how much you care about the looks of something that will be hidden by molding, etc.) At this point you will have the top foot of the window with horizontal zinc came attached across the top, and the bulk of the window below the break left with a piece of zinc came across the bottom. 4) go back to your cartoon and recut the smashed piece. Reassemble the window pieces (top, new glass, bottom portion). Recut new zinc came (using the discarded came for length) and resolder the zinc came to all the intersecting lead came. An alternate way of doing this would be a variation on a tuck repair but I can't describe how to do that in words...it's kind of tricky and takes practice even when you've been shown it a couple of times. Good luck and feel free to write with more questions if need be. I'd also be interested to hear if Elisabeth or any of our real lead pros have other suggestions... Cheers Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 15 23:00:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 15 May 1998 21:51:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, crzylynna@email.msn.com Subject: Leaded panel repairs Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 00:49:48, -0500 Message-ID: <199805160449.AAA19274@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>>Hi! I have an 8 ft x 3 ft. panel that I did for a client. It's only my 3rd lead piece that I've done. When the guy went to install it, he cracked a piece right on the edge. When he took it down, he stepped on an edge and broke a piece that runs the entire width of the window, and about aft. from the top. I have NO IDEA HOW TO FIX IT !!! Can anyone tell me what the steps are to fixing it???? The leads are 1/4" reinforced H came, and it is framed in 1/2" U Zinc. Thanks! Lynn<<< I cut the zinc frame with a fine tooth hacksaw and then cut the necessary lead joints top and bottom with lead dikes. Before doing this it is important to figure out a logical plan of disassembly. The edge piece should be no problem and the piece that goes the entire width of the window sounds easy also. Just use your saw and dikes and the window should seperate into two pieces. I often make my replecement pieces before disassembling the window by tracing over the heart of the leads onto clear glass and using this as a pattern when cutting on a light table. Many putty mixtures soften with water or turpentine. Make sure you clean out the channels with great care after you have removed the old glass. Replace the lead if necessary. Make the customer pay a pre-agreed price for the repair. You did not break the window or step on it either!!! I suggest a five minute lecture on the difficulty of the repair and a charge of $120.00. After all handling a window of this size is a pain and further you could well break additional pieces. On second thought charge $180.00. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com* for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 06:22:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 06:03:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: sorry for the all caps Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 06:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805161302.GAA02831@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi guys, I didn't know that about all caps. I won't use them and hope I haven't offended. Sincerely,Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 06:42:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 06:06:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Plain Text New Discovery Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:04:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May16.3444.0> Precedence: bulk A while ago someone was asking about how to polish the solder to a brilliant this product did it. Hope this helps. Recently went to a large discount store and saw a product that was new to me. It is a polishing paste called MAAS. The box says it polishes all metals, glass, Plexiglas, and more. Tonight I had a few minutes and tried it on a brass urn I have and it worked great. Took it to my workbench and tried it out on an old SG piece that is solder is quite tarnished (this is the same piece I tried the Kiwi polish on for you old timers). Using very little elbow grease, the solder came out looking like chrome. Putting it to a further test I put it on the whispy glass, then the glue chip, then the iridescent and .... WOW. I have never seen glass this clean and shiny. The iridescent almost glowed even in the florescent light of the garage. Tried to put a fingerprint smudge on it and it didn't show. The cost was about $2.50 for a 2 oz tube (about the same size as a medium tube of toothpaste). The company is MAAS Polishing Systemes Inc., PO Box 128, La Grange, IL 60525. This is supposed to be an international company so perhaps our friends from the UK and Down-Under, and Costa Rico, and ...... can purchase it locally Patrick Roses and Rainbows PS HHHmmmmmm maybe I could be on a "Infommercial" for them? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 06:59:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 06:15:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp18.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Etching glass for copper foil work. Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 09:15:01 -0400 Message-ID: <199805161315.JAA00729@ppp18.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Hello SGers, My current project is coming to a happy --I cross my fingers-- end (I'll likely post the details on how to get a mold and pattern for a semi-spherical lamp under 5 dollars). This has, as Linda has already expressed, a very interesting project. Round work requires different skills than flat three-dimensional work. And the pieces are soo small that I can hardly have any useful scrap at all. Anyways, that has nothing to do with my question. I am starting to think about my coming project. I have not decided whether it will be a lamp or a flat panel. I have been reading that glass etching was (or is) a common practice to add further detail into the glass. Has anobody do it? If so, I have some questions. 1. What kind of glass is best to use with this technique? 2. Is there a recommended procedure to follow in order to achieve better results? 3. I am particularly attracted to Youghiogheny stipple. Would this glass be useful for this technique. daniel, -- Daniel M. German "No style of thinking will survive which cannot produce a usable product when Thomas Favill Gladwin -> survival is at stake." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 07:57:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 07:46:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Etching glass for copper foil work. Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 07:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805161446.HAA22580@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Daniel, (Barefoot) Looking forward to seeing your current, sure liked the vase. Hopefully I can answer your etching question, but sadfully I've never had the chance to use Y...stipple (boy that's a big one) To etch glass it has to be fairly clear to be seen well, but I have use a solid black like Spectrum's 1009s for some of my plates. Etching and stained glass looks great together, cathedrals will be better choice than opals (imho). What are you planning to do? And are you going to sandblast or acid etch? The process is simple... resist material protects the area not wanting to etch also it will carry out the design work. It's a world of exciting challenges! One can get into multi stage carving and multi stage etching and shading, and it can all be put together for some incredible visuals. A now good friend of mine does the most fabulous work I've ever seen. The love for glass lives forever!! Smiles, Cindy PS please let me know if I can help. > > > >My current project is coming to a happy --I cross my fingers-- end >(I'll likely post the details on how to get a mold and pattern for a >semi-spherical lamp under 5 dollars). This has, as Linda has already >expressed, a very interesting project. Round work requires different >skills than flat three-dimensional work. And the pieces are soo small >that I can hardly have any useful scrap at all. > >Anyways, that has nothing to do with my question. I am starting to >think about my coming project. I have not decided whether it will be a >lamp or a flat panel. I have been reading that glass etching was (or >is) a common practice to add further detail into the glass. Has >anobody do it? If so, I have some questions. > >1. What kind of glass is best to use with this technique? > >2. Is there a recommended procedure to follow in order to achieve >better results? > >3. I am particularly attracted to Youghiogheny stipple. Would this glass >be useful for this technique. > >daniel, > >-- >Daniel M. German "No style of thinking will survive which > cannot produce a usable product when > Thomas Favill Gladwin -> survival is at stake." >http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html >dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 09:56:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 09:37:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gallery, revisited. Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:35:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May16.83534.0> References: <<199805160147.SAA09114@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk Cindy Pesonen wrote: > > >HI BAREFOOT!! > I WANT TO SEE MORE OF OUR FELLOW BUNGIANS WORK, (GET YOUR BUTTS MOVING > PLEASE AND SEND IN SOME PHOTOS) I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE TO BE UP FOR LONG > MAYBE FEATURED A MONTH AND THEN SUBMIT A NEW ONE???? > WHILE I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK OUT, I'D LIKE TO SAY TO EVERYONE WHO > HAS PUT IN A PICTURE TO BAREFOOT "GREAT STUFF GUYS" > IT'S VERY NEAT TO READ EVERYONE BIO AND IT'S VERY NEAT TO SEE "WHAT IT IS > YOU'RE DOING OR SHOULD I SAY HAVE DONE!!!" > SMILES, CINDY > PS; THIS COMES FROM SOMEONE WHO'S AFRAID TO SHOW THEIR WORK AND WILL BE THE > FIRST ONE TO POINT OUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---- i don't know if you've seen my work yet, but you can check it out at http://www.geocities.com/paris/1141 ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 10:36:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 10:08:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!crzylynna From: "Lynn Alchin" To: "Fellow Artists" Subject: THANK-YOU ALL Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:13:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May16.31343.0> Precedence: bulk Fellow Artists; Thank-you all so much for the badly needed advice, on How to repair that 8 ft. window. I have been so frustrated for 3 weeks now, going in & staring at it, going back to the bookshelf to read more info... I've had the same question posted all over the inter-net, to every,"ask the pro's" sections of other sites etc.., with absolutely NO responses. Was a fluke that I stumbled here! Thank all that is Good!!! So... I just wanted to thanks you all. Lynn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 11:02:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 10:38:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp23.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Gallery, revisited. Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 13:36:23 -0400 Message-ID: <199805161736.NAA00393@ppp23.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805081958.PAA10910@aries17.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk jerri> I just visited the gallery. Wow! Very nice work! Nice job Oh Barefoot jerri> one, getting it set up! I think as the gallery grows, different jerri> categories would be good. I'd also like to see, for those so inclined, jerri> e-mail addresses. Sometimes a question pops into my head when I'm I do have the email addresses in the database. It is a matter of 5 minutes for me to add them to each individual work. But I will not do so unless every person makes it explicit that they want to add their email address. So from now on, add a new field to the form: Email. Those who already have a work there, notify me personally. jerri> looking at something and would like to ask the artist how they did jerri> something or other. Unless there's a lot of work up, I'd like to see the -- Daniel M. German "Nothing exists except atoms and empty Democritos -> space; everything else is opinion." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 11:33:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 10:53:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp23.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: morn@nac.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Gallery, revisited. Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 13:51:19 -0400 Message-ID: <199805161751.NAA00412@ppp23.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805160147.SAA09114@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk M> i don't know if you've seen my work yet, but you can check it out at M> http://www.geocities.com/paris/1141 Hi Mike, Today I was thinking about your web site this morning and how it has being helping me. I owe you a big thank you. I have to publicly say that I admire: * the time and dedication that you have invested into creating all those informative resources; * your eagerness to share your knowledge; and * the astonishing quality of your work. Your site was the one that called my attention to this list. If more people were like you the Web would be a better place to be. -- Daniel M. German http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 11:55:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 11:03:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gallery, revisited. Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 14:00:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May16.1000.0> References: <<199805160147.SAA09114@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk Daniel M. German wrote: > > M> i don't know if you've seen my work yet, but you can check it out at > M> http://www.geocities.com/paris/1141 > > Hi Mike, > > Today I was thinking about your web site this morning and how it has > being helping me. I owe you a big thank you. I have to publicly > say that I admire: > > * the time and dedication that you have invested into creating all > those informative resources; > > * your eagerness to share your knowledge; and > > * the astonishing quality of your work. > > Your site was the one that called my attention to this list. > > If more people were like you the Web would be a better place to be. > > -- > Daniel M. German > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > thanks, i do what i can :) eventually i hope to have the page updated. but between my new computer giving me hardware problems, and sky city... not sure when i'll get to it.... oh yeah since one these messages will go out on bungi --- Melanie from Australia (and in case there's more then one), the one who makes the soap: i e-mailed you a few things, but hav'nt got a reply. though i did see that you posted, could you drop me an e-mail. and let me know that you got the first 2 pictures i sent. and if it's ok to send a few more... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 13:06:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 12:34:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: Afhulsey@aol.com, Alexev@aol.com, ANDCHR1@aol.com, ArcticKat@aol.com, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Dont Forget SAT (Tonights) Stained Glass Chat Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 15:32:40 EDT Message-ID: <1998May16.193240.0> Precedence: bulk SAT CHAT REMINDER ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Damn It's Hot here in the ARK!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Q & A 1) There are three different thicknesses of foil. What are the purposes for each? The three thickness I feel that she is referring to are the 1.0 ml the 1.5 ml and the 3 ml thickness of the foil rather than the width. I tell my students to buy 1.0 ml for panels and 1.5 ml for suncatchers. If your design is right the thickness of the foil should not matter because there won't be stress on the foil after it is soldered. But on some suncatchers there is stress on the foil and the thickness helps....a little. In the long run, I really think that the thickness of the foil is not a big deal. Attaching rings to just the foil is a bad idea anyway and should always be applied to a seam. But I have done some cardinal designs that there was absolutely no seam to attach to that would make the thing hang straight and in that case, I have attached to the foil and it has worked ok because it is a very small size. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran Ohio 2) Why do you need to stretch lead came? What's the best way to stretch it? How do you know when you've stretched enough? The need for stretching lead,IMHO,is twofold,one is to stiffen the lead and help prevent twisting and bending,the other is you can get (sometimes) 5 or more inches of lead,not to be sneezed at if you are watching your pennies.As you can tell, I do not like to waste, even the smallest pieces... I hope this helps......... Don Though i don't work with lead, i do know that if you don't stretch it first, it will stretch later. and if it's later, everything will sag and fall out. i've see lead lamps done like this. if there going to use lead for a lamp, at least they can strech it first. Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SHOW OFF PICS Are attached to e-mail... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ REQUESTS Send in May Birthdays! What are you working on?.......Send us a pic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GLASS SIGHTS Home Page http://www.steinertindustries.com/ THE COLLECTOR'S GUIDE: FUSED - SLUMPED GLASS http://www.collectorsguide.com/fa/fa015.shtml ~stellar at mars.ark.com http://mars.ark.com/~stellar/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GLASS PATTERNS birdpat.gif at www.artglassworld.com http://www.artglassworld.com/pattern/birdpat.gif Hope I havent sent this one out .... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MEETING TIME/PLACE Stained Glass (Click here for chat room) WED/SAT Eastern 9pm Central 8pm Mountain 7pm Pacific 6pm EMAIL TO: puzzykatz@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 13:37:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 13:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: PUZZYKATZ@aol.com, Afhulsey@aol.com, Alexev@aol.com, ANDCHR1@aol.com, Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Re: The Work of Jntrc (Panel) Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 16:06:50 EDT Message-ID: <1998May16.20650.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_895349211_boundary Content-ID: <0_895349211@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII fish --part0_895349211_boundary Content-ID: <0_895349211@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: image/jpeg; name="FISH.JPG" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-disposition: inline /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAAAAZABkAAD//gAfTEVBRCBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgSW5jLiBWMS4wMQD/ 2wCEAAYEBAUEBAYFBQUHBgYHCRAKCQgICRMODgsQFxQYGBYUFhYZHCQfGRsiGxYWICsgIiYn KSkpGB4tMCwoMCQoKScBBgcHCQgJEgoKEicaFhonJycnJycnJycnJycnJycnJycnJycnJycn JycnJycnJycnJycnJycnJycnJycnJycnJ//EAaIAAAEFAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAABAgMEBQYH 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ODpBODI8OCtDOD02ODE5ODQzOD4/OC1CODM8ODQ8ODVDODYmODU5ODQmOD5DODVCODZDODdE ODZBODEqOTJCNDIdOTMwODMtODQxODMoOC9DNzY/PUhUNzY4ODZDODYyODc2ODcwODYyAAAA --part0_895349495_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 14:11:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 13:46:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: OOOOPS!!! Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 16:45:41 EDT Message-ID: <1998May16.204541.0> Precedence: bulk sorry all I forgot to delete the the bungi group when attaching pics ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 14:33:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 13:22:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: PUZZYKATZ@aol.com, Afhulsey@aol.com, Alexev@aol.com, ANDCHR1@aol.com, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: who did this stone (stone) Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 16:19:25 EDT Message-ID: <1998May16.201925.0> Precedence: bulk hummingbird ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 14:41:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 13:49:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: This Sat Questions for Q&A Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:27:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199805162028.VAA15368@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi everybody, As regards the foil thickness questions, Mike Savad has a very good explanation on his web-site , complete with pics. As regards lead, you need to stretch it before usage a) to anneal it, b) to strengthen it (i.e. prevent later sagging), c) to straighten out all the bumps, bruises and dents it invariable gets in transit, the many times of handling between factory and arriving in your workshop. d) to get an extra few inches of lead..... ;-) Best way: to use a lead-stretching vice, screwed into a solid wall or similar in your workshop; alternatively using an ordinary vice common in most workshops; or worst scenario: 2 people with pairs of pliers pulling either end. In all cases, it is important that you balance your body and legs correctly and bend your knees slightly, or - as Cindy so eloquently puts it - you will end up on your posterior. Seriously though, you could end up cracking the back of your head quite badly if you fall backwards in this fashion. (I always set aside almost an entire lesson to teach my students body posture, balance, how and where to put their weight. It seems to have paid off, because noone has yet fallen over) When is enough enough?: You should not need to stretch the lead until it breaks. Much depends on how and how hard you fix it in the vice ( or in the 2 pairs of pliers - which is why a lead vice is preferable). It really is a question of experience to some extent, which inevitably means that you will lose your balance until you have learnt the knack. Focus your eyes on a particular bad dent/bruise on the lead and stretch it until that one has become smooth. That should be enough. I'll be sneaky now and slot in a comment about lead repairs: 1. First of all, I learnt early on NOT to allow the customer, the amateur, the handy-man to attempt installation on their own of a stained glass panel I have made, large one or small one. I supervise every single installation personally, regardless of distance. I hate having to repair my own work. So give the customer a real earful and charge the earth!! 2. I assume that the panel is now taken out of it's frame and now resting unencumbered horizontally. 3. I would only trace the replacement piece on top of the lead, if I didn't have the original drawing. Use the drawing FIRST, it's quicker and more accurate. In other respects follow Carol Swann's guide-lines. It will be inevitable that you will need to replace some leads with new. I would not recommend trying to bend open up the cames in order to try and remove the glass. Hardly ever have I seen this done with a neat or even satisfactory result. Good Luck! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK PUZZY KATZ Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 14:56:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Daniel M. German" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Gallery, revisited. Date: Sat, 16 May 98 17:47:29 -0400 Message-ID: <199805162145.RAA03925@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Daniel, About the Gallery - would it be possible to have each person on their own separate page, including their Bio and E-mail address if they agree? Thanks for setting this up - it's great fun! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 15:58:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 15:02:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio# 20 Barbara J Snell Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:00:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May16.12017.0> Precedence: bulk Name: Barbara J. Snell Location: Ithaca, New York Occupation: Dining Manager, Cornell University for the past 18 years Marital Status: Divorced for about 13 years, 2 children, my son, Matt is 23 and lives in Indiana. My daughter Whitney is 18 and will be graduating from High School this year and going off to college next year. And I am looking forward to trying my hand with the "empty nest" Likes: Students at the University. Music.... all kinds, especially jazz, classical and old stuff. Classic cars from the 50's ( I want to buy a '54 Dodge DeSoto, pink and black !) Lot's and Lot's of Art... Book Stores... my dear friend Hank, the Chemist and the list can go on... and on. Dislikes: Peas and Lima Beans, something about the texture. Lies... this list is much shorter. Interests: I play the piano, self taught... still practicing but not bad. Garden every chance I get in this land of ever changing weather. And I cook.. As much as possible. I am in middle of writing a cookbook. Started out as a wedding gift for my niece... but it is good and I am going to try to sell it Pets: 2 cats, Callie is a tortoiseshell calico and T-Boz is a Siamese mixture. Both are underfoot most of the time... T-Boz is my foot warmer at night... Callie won't come in my room (?) Background: I was born in Binghamton, New York. I was Dad's first project upon returning home from the Pacific after WW2. Ended up with 2 sisters and 3 brothers. They are now all over the US. Raised as an "army brat" and was fortunate enough to have all the benefits and privileges of that life with none of the responsibilities. Got to live in Asia, Europe and all over the US of A. After high school and before college, I spent a year traveling by myself on a greyhound bus all over the US... stopping occasionally for a month or so..to get a job as a waitress for some extra pocket money. This is by far the best year that I have ever spent... what an education! I met some wonderful and not so wonderful people. Played blackjack on the bus for extra money too. Got very good at it. Good Grief, the thought of my daughter doing that now scares the wits out of me.... whew !! Returned to New York and went to school... got restless, didn't finish, got married..... he went to school, I worked! And you know the ending of that story! I was married for 15 years and during that time we lived in NY, Virginia, Pa. and back to NY. During this time I worked for Hotels in Banquets and Catering. When the children came I was a stay at home mom.... and I very much enjoyed that. When the children were little I loved being a mom! Teenagers (especially as a single mom) are another story. I have taken many courses both at Cornell and other schools locally. Studied mostly horticulture and flower design. I will own my own flower shop within the next 3 to 5 years. Someplace south, more than likely Delaware or Maryland. (I have to have the 4 seasons) Glass: About 4 years ago, a friend of mine was repairing a lamp at her house while I was visiting.... I could not stop asking questions. I have always loved glass of any kind and was intrigued by the way she worked. She gave me some basic instructions and I left with a 5" X 7" panel, a very simple piece.... with the worst solder lines you have ever seen. And I have been practicing ever since. I sure don't need to explain to this group about the love of glass. And like Patrick I have given away everything that I have made.... wedding gifts, birthdays and Christmas.. thank yous ..... I especially love the idea that I can give someone something that is so special to me. There you are... me in 5K ! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 16:13:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 15:09:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio# 21 Rick Lasita Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:07:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May16.12751.0> Precedence: bulk Rick Lasita Hi, my name is Rick Lasita, born in Cincinnati, Ohio, the first day of August, 1948, the first child of Matt and the late Betty Lasita. I have 2 brothers and a sister. Married to a wonderful Irish lass, Kathy (Kehoe), going on 30 years now, with 3 children of our own, Jeff 28, Allison 24, and Matt 18. All 3 are doing well I might add, with the youngest being watch by major league and college baseball scouts for his pitching abilities. Graduated HS in 1966, worked for a year, and since this was the Viet Nam era, I had a choice to be drafted in the Army, or join the Air Force, I chose the latter. I was trained as a helicopter mechanic, and spent 2 of my 4 years in the 67th Aerospace Rescue & Recovery Squad as a crew chief. Honorably discharged on Valentines Day 1971, and returned to Cincinnati. Got a job driving a fork truck in a local warehouse, (damn, there are days I wish I was doing that again) , worked for a steel fabricator, an electric company, my wife's step fathers business selling pumps, valves, electric motors, etc., before taking a job with Procter & Gamble August 1979, and I have been there ever since. Dabbled in woodworing on and off over the years, did some water color painting, and my wife taught me counted cross stitch. Woodworking was my number one passion until I discovered working with glass about 2 years ago as a result of not wanting to put plain glass in the doors of a cupboard I made for our dining room. I still make an occasional piece of furniture, but glass is what I enjoy more than anything else in the craft/creative area. As you can probably tell from visiting my home page, http://home.fuse.net/crafts/index.html , the more complex the project, the better. I love the challenge of building, or making, complicated work. Being my own worst critic, I think I have a way to go. I have been doing some custom work for a local studio here in Cincinnati, and was flattered when I was asked to do some of the custom work, and overwhelmed when my worked appeared in the Stained Glass Biz page. Though satisfying, I'm thinking I really need to get out on my own when it comes to doing commission work. Working in the studio has allowed me to work with various glass and designs I probably would otherwise not been exposed too, in addition to dealing with the customers wishes, and pricing the work, but I think it is time to move on. For those of you that are nodding off by now reading this, please visit my page and if you can find the e-mail button (working on that) drop me a line. I can tell by reading some of the posts in the newsgroup, I am among some very creative people. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 16:30:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 15:39:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: PHOTOGRAPHING WORK Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 04:46:40 -0600 Message-ID: <1998May15.224640.0> Precedence: bulk What is the best way to photograph stained glass (lighting?). I went to the gallery and the pictures look very clear. Also, how do you photograph mirrors? I clicked on how to submit work, and got no response. Can someone help me? How big a photograph do I need? I am going to suggest to my glass-group that we each submit a sample of our work. We are all hobbyist, but I think we have done some good stuff. Claudette ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 17:18:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 16:53:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Gallery, revisited. Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 16:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805162353.QAA05625@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Mike, Wow! What a fabulous site, you have certainly put alot of heart and good ideas for people in it. And your fish lamp is gorgeous, real neat design and base!!! Bet it took awhile to build. Thanks for the visit and hope everyone checks it out also!!! Just a young guy, eh??? Smiles, Cindy And thanks again for letting me know. > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 17:51:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 16:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eagle.ca!glass From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Puzzy's Pictures Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 20:00:39 -0400 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Dear Puzzy Katz: Please STOP trying to send pictures to the Bungi group. They take forever to download, plug up mailboxes, cost money to those Bungians in Europe and are not readable for many of us anyways. People who are interested in seeing stained glass pictures will look for them using their web browser at one of thousands of web sites offering excellent stained glass pictures. If you have pictures to share, maybe you should set up a web site featuring them. I realize that you are trying to share your love for glass with the rest of us, but this really isn't the way to do it. Sarah ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 18:52:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 17:46:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 20:45:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May16.164518.0> Precedence: bulk Well, I DO remember falling flat on my fanny stretching lead! Now I keep one foot braced a bit behind me as I pull on the lead. Also, you can stretch came without a vice.... well, at least not a purchased one. Put about a two inch kink in one = end of the lead came, tuck that under your heel while holding the other end in the handle joint of your lead dykes. Then put your weight on the kinked end as you pull up with the clasped lead dykes. Sounds confusing, but it's really quite straighforward and it's a great alternative to cleaning all the junk off your work table that's blocking the real vice!;-) Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 19:27:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 18:41:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Drill Bits Date: Sat, 16 May 98 21:39:27 -0400 Message-ID: <199805170137.VAA14245@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Hi Fellow Bungians, Last night I tried drilling holes with my new Glastar drill bit and Sears drill. It started out well, but after about the 20th hole the drill bit collapsed and came off. Anyone else had this experience? Shouldn't they last longer than that? My husband said I might have been pressing too hard on the drill. Could he be right? (s) Thanks in advance, Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 20:57:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 19:35:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Puzzy's Pictures Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:35:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May16.123542.0> Precedence: bulk I, too would like the option to see the pictures, not have them download when I open the mail is certainly preferred. I consign a few posters to the trash without even opening the mail, and one more will not be too hard to do as well. enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 20:57:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 19:43:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: lead stretching - subtle linguistics Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 03:41:37 +0000 Message-ID: <199805170242.DAA23834@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Ahh Dani, As usual, you made me "hoot". I have visions of you landing on EVER such fragile anatomical parts... eye-watering.... However..... You are quite right about bending one knee in front of the other... (What a GOOD girl you ARE!!) Since it is really IS 3.30 in the morning in UK, I am marching off to bed! Fanny first...... A UK joke related to above....... Oh No I think I better not...... nite... nite all. ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... E 'n T Well, I DO remember falling flat on my fanny stretching lead! Now I keep one foot braced a bit behind me as I pull on the lead. Also, you can stretch came without a vice.... well, at least not a purchased one. Put about a two inch kink in one = end of the lead came, tuck that under your heel while holding the other end in the handle joint of your lead dykes. Then put your weight on the kinked end as you pull up with the clasped lead dykes. Sounds confusing, but it's really quite straighforward and it's a great alternative to cleaning all the junk off your work table that's blocking the real vice!;-) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 21:13:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 20:30:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: glass@nobleco.net Subject: Re: thermostat iron Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 23:24:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May16.192434.0> References: <<1998May15.192558.0>> Precedence: bulk Paul, The iron in question, the Weller 100watt does not control temperature through resistance, or lowering voltage. It switches the current, fully on or fully off. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com > >I would suggest AGAINST using a termostat on an iron that already had >= >one built in. The temperature is controlled by lowering the voltage. >= >As the voltage goes down the amperage requirements of the iron will = >increase (Ohms Law) The added load demand on the built in thermostat >= >could cause it to burn out. There should be no problem using a = >thermostat on a 100 W iron that does not have a thermostat. Also some >= >thermostats may regulate the power by sending pulses of power. This >too = >could kill a second thermostat. Maby everyone how has done this has = >been lucky??? > > >Paul >KB8PZQ > >Bumblebee Stained Glass >Caldwell, Ohio > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 21:14:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 20:30:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: suzy@ComCAT.COM Subject: Re: Drill Bits Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 23:28:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May16.192830.0> References: <<199805170137.VAA14245@uz.comcat.com>> Precedence: bulk Suzanne, I have been using the same Glastar 3/8" glass drill for probably eighteen or twenty years now. Sure it's not for production work these days, but when I first got it I was still doing some craft shows and made holes in a lot of clock faces with it. Still going strong! Was your bit loose in the chuck causing the drill to chew the head off the thing? Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Sat, 16 May 98 21:39:27 -0400 "suzy@comcat.com" writes: >Hi Fellow Bungians, > >Last night I tried drilling holes with my new Glastar drill bit and >Sears >drill. > >It started out well, but after about the 20th hole the drill bit >collapsed and came off. Anyone else had this experience? Shouldn't >they >last longer than that? My husband said I might have been pressing too >hard on the drill. Could he be right? (s) > >Thanks in advance, >Suzanne >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 21:25:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 20:46:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Update on MAAS polish Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 22:46:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May16.17464.0> Precedence: bulk I found a homepage on the MAAS polish I was talking about earlier. In any (I used Yahoo) search engine type " maas polishing systemes". To our friends across the seas they have a FAX number, Internet orders, and do international orders. I seldom stick my neck this far for any product, no matter how good. I cynical to a fault (my job demands it). I am impressed and do highly recommend it. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 21:27:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 20:54:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Drill Bits Date: Sat, 16 May 98 23:41:47 -0400 Message-ID: <199805170339.XAA19717@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Gary Dodge replied to my question on drill bits: >Was your bit loose in the chuck causing the drill to chew the head off >the thing? You know Gary, that might be it. It fell out a couple of times while I was drilling and I screwed it back in. Never having used a drill before, I probably should have known better. Thanks! Live & learn. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 22:20:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 21:32:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp18.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:Etching glass for copper foil work. Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 00:25:54 -0400 Message-ID: <199805170425.AAA00596@ppp18.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805161446.HAA22580@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk Cindy Pesonen twistes the bytes to say: >> Hi Daniel, (Barefoot) --Today it was too hot, I decided to walk around the university on my bare foot, I can survive glass splinters, I can certainly survive a road :) Cindy> Hopefully I can answer your etching question, but sadfully I've never had Cindy> the chance to use Y...stipple (boy that's a big one) Cindy> To etch glass it has to be fairly clear to be seen well, but I have use a Cindy> solid black like Spectrum's 1009s for some of my plates. Etching and stained Cindy> glass looks great together, cathedrals will be better choice than opals Cindy> (imho). What are you planning to do? And are you going to sandblast or acid Cindy> etch? The process is simple... resist material protects the area not wanting Acid etch --I have no way to do sandblasting. I have done it --only once-- and I believe understand the process and the precautions to be taken. Is it possible to do multi stage carving with acid? Which side is best to put towards the viewer's side? I'd like to experiment with it, my goal is to add further detail into the glass sort of in the same way paint is used. Cindy> The love for glass lives forever!! Yes, indeed. Cindy> Smiles, Cindy Cindy> PS please let me know if I can help. Thanks, Cindy. >> -- Daniel M. German "The World Wide Web looks more The Economist -> like the World Wide Mess." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 22:33:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 21:47:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 00:45:37 EDT Message-ID: <1998May17.44537.0> Precedence: bulk * * * * * Wonderful idea you get a gold star for the day :) * * * * * * * ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 22:50:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 22:03:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Pat Kelly Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Update on MAAS polish Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:59:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May16.85928.0> References: <<1998May16.17464.0>> Precedence: bulk Pat, How do you think Maas would work to "shine up" Antique Bronze Patina? Goldpaws Pat Kelly wrote: > I found a homepage on the MAAS polish I was talking about earlier ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 22:51:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 21:48:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Odyssey Poster Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:46:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May16.84621.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone have 2 of the first Odyssey Posters for sale? Thanks Goldpaws ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 16 23:22:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 16 May 1998 22:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lasercom.net!jean From: "Jean" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Pussy's Pictures Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 22:39:01 -0700 Message-ID: <199805170531.WAA18130@intergate.lasercom.net> Precedence: bulk I also have a long standing habit of 'trashing' all attachments received via lists. The experiences of others dictates my actions. There is really no need to send attachments to a list (many lists forbid them). Jean ---------- > From: Howard and Elaine Rubin > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Puzzy's Pictures > Date: Saturday, May 16, 1998 7:35 PM > > I, too would like the option to see the pictures, not have them download > when I open the mail is certainly preferred. > > I consign a few posters to the trash without even opening the mail, and one > more will not be too hard to do as well. > > enjoy, H > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 01:55:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 01:24:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: PUZZY KATZ ,glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: who did this stone (stone) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 09:13:43 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May17.101343.0> Precedence: bulk At 18:45 16/05/98 EDT, you wrote: >no it was a mistake aol members recieve pics with the chat reminder and i >forgot to delete the bungi list from the list before i sent them out This morning I had to wait for 3 minutes while your 450 pages of email about the work of jingers was unloaded on to my computer only to find 450 pages of undecipherable coding. If you cannot stop sending these long unreadable messages to the bungi list it wont be long before glenna and Dave who own the site will have to unsubscribe you as I am sure I am not the only one inconvenienced by this repeated error on your part. Not all of us have the software or the computer knowledge to filter particular senders messages out and so are forced to download them. Please bear in mind that subscribers outside the USA have to pay phone time to be on line and are therefore paying hard cash to receive unwanted email. Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk Elizabeth & Sam Law (Bournemouth Stained Glass) 790 Wimborne Road Bournemouth Dorset BH9 2DX England Tel : 01202 514734 Fax : 01202 250239 http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 02:10:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 01:08:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: crzylynna@email.msn.com Subject: Re: THANK-YOU ALL Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 23:18:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May16.191857.0> References: <<1998May16.31343.0>> Precedence: bulk Lynn, If you check your mail you will find a reply to your query from Dodge Studio Designs. I make it my business to answer all mail personally, but I do wait till after business hours. I saw your letter at about 11:00 am and answered it at around midnight or so. (Then checked my bungi mail and saw it here again, so did not answer it a second time in the group.) Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Sat, 16 May 1998 10:13:43 -0700 "Lynn Alchin" writes: >Fellow Artists; > >Thank-you all so much for the badly needed advice, on How to repair >that >8 ft. window. I have been so frustrated for 3 weeks now, going in & >staring at it, going back to the bookshelf to read more info... >I've had the same question posted all over the inter-net, to >every,"ask >the pro's" sections of other sites etc.., with absolutely NO >responses. >Was a fluke that I stumbled here! Thank all that is Good!!! >So... >I just wanted to thanks you all. >Lynn > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 04:32:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 03:33:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Puzzy's Pictures Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:30:41 +0000 Message-ID: <199805171031.LAA25755@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Thank you Sarah, I didn't want to put my foot in it YET again..... :-( But have been inunndated with scrambled graphic messages and separate "chat-group" messages these last couple of weeks that neither I (nor anyone in Bungi UK can do anything with . I surmise that these are specific only to AOL (America on Line). which none of us Bunginians in UK have - if my memory serves me right). AOL may be BIG Across the Pond, but over here, it's rife with problems.... from what my friends tell me. I have just spent 3 days agonizing over what to send Daniel for the Bungi gallery... and how..... If it is one thing my Computer Guru Kris has hammered into my head, it is how quickly a graphic can be downloaded. I have had many compliments about just that aspect of my WEB-Page. (Thank you Kris) There may not be many of us in UK or Europe, but the number is slowly growing.I still remember the days when I was the ONLY voice from Europe in Bungi. So a special Thank You to the people who remember occasionally that we are here, with our own set of problems and difficulties. Cost-cutting is one of them.......... My own biggest household expense is now telephone costs. It has superceded all other expenses. The reason is e-mail. About 6 months or so ago, we had a "thread" about comparative telephone costs. I remember that some of you folks in USA were surprised at the prices we in UK (and Europe) have to pay. It's bad enough sitting here, green with envy, and missing out on the WC excursions.... but to get scrambled 5-10 minutes long images downloaded (while the phonebill tots up..) is just about the pits..... , ;-> I have often been teased about writing and sending my e-mails in the middle of the night... But in UK that is a "cheap rate"! Enough for now. But thank you again Sarah, for remembering..... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Sarah wrote: Dear Puzzy Katz: Please STOP trying to send pictures to the Bungi group. They take forever to download, plug up mailboxes, cost money to those Bungians in Europe and are not readable for many of us anyways. People who are interested in seeing stained glass pictures will look for them using their web browser at one of thousands of web sites offering excellent stained glass pictures. If you have pictures to share, maybe you should set up a web site featuring them. I realize that you are trying to share your love for glass with the rest of us, but this really isn't the way to do it. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 06:36:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 05:38:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: unwanted pictures Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 05:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805171236.FAA27790@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Guys, I also have gotten Puzzy's pictures unreadable and takes a along time to come thru. I've deleted them, but do they reside in a cache some where else? I clean out one cache (netscape) but don't know if there's something else I know it's a dumb question, sorry. I'd like to be sure that I'm not wasting space in my old computer. Thanks a bunch, Smiles Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 08:36:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 07:43:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: unwanted pictures Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:45:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May17.64528.0> References: <<199805171236.FAA27790@ns2.vphos.net>> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk Gee I guess I'm lucky, all i got was the header with no pix ;-) Rick http://home.fuse.net/crafts/ Cindy Pesonen wrote: > > Hi Guys, > I also have gotten Puzzy's pictures unreadable and takes a along time to > come thru. I've deleted them, but do they reside in a cache some where else? > I clean out one cache (netscape) but don't know if there's something else > I know it's a dumb question, sorry. I'd like to be sure that I'm not wasting > space in my old computer. > Thanks a bunch, > Smiles Cindy > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 10:07:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 09:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805171553.LAA19040@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, hehehe.................not laughing at you ..............laughing with you!!! Been there done that one. The other question is how tall are you? And how long is that piece of lead? my best, pj >Well, I DO remember falling flat >on my fanny stretching lead! Now >I keep one foot braced a bit behind >me as I pull on the lead. Also, you >can stretch came without a vice.... >well, at least not a purchased one. >Put about a two inch kink in one = > >end of the lead came, tuck that under >your heel while holding the other end >in the handle joint of your lead dykes. >Then put your weight on the kinked >end as you pull up with the clasped >lead dykes. Sounds confusing, but >it's really quite straighforward and it's >a great alternative to cleaning all the >junk off your work table that's blocking >the real vice!;-) > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 11:39:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:54:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!crzylynna From: "Lynn Alchin" To: "Fellow Artists" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Me again Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:59:12 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May17.35912.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD8182.D3051860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again; I really hate it when I sound sooo stupid, but here's another question; In regards to the 8ft. panel that I have to repair( this is just another = reason I DON'T especially take my Instructor's advice) My instructor advised me that to install the panel, I should put clear = caulking all around the back edges, & just stick the panel up into the = existing opening. Install a few metal screws w/heads around the sides & = wait until it's dry & remove the screws. If the client wants it trimmed = out in wood, they have the option to find someone to do it.=20 I live in Arizona, so not much of a problem exists for moisture, but...=20 seems to me that it is just too much weight for just caulking to hold it = properly. But then again, seems like it would distribute the weight = pretty evenly. What do you guys think? By the way... Real fat chance of having anybody pay me for the repairs on that panel. = The amateur idiot that tried to help me install that panel is my = Brother.(live & learn). He seemed like the most logical to help, but any = suggestions on where to find someone experienced in doing that type of = work? I had asked several carpenters, & "handy-men" I found in the local = paper & yellow pages, but got flustered and down to the wire on getting = the window in...(look at me now!) Thanks in advance! Lynn Crzylynna@email.msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD8182.D3051860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi again;
I really hate it when I sound sooo stupid, = but here's=20 another question;
In regards to the 8ft. panel that I have to = repair(=20 this is just another reason I DON'T especially take my Instructor's=20 advice)
My instructor advised me that to install the = panel, I=20 should put clear caulking all around the back edges, & just stick = the panel=20 up into the existing opening. Install a few metal screws w/heads around = the=20 sides & wait until it's dry & remove the screws. If the client = wants it=20 trimmed out in wood, they have the option to find someone to do it.=20
I live in Arizona, so not much of a problem = exists for=20 moisture, but...
seems to me that it is just too much weight = for just=20 caulking to hold it properly. But then again, seems like it = would =20 distribute the weight pretty evenly.
What do you guys think?
By the way...
Real fat chance of having anybody pay me for the = repairs on=20 that panel. The amateur idiot that tried to help  = me=20 install that panel is my Brother.(live & learn). He seemed like the = most=20 logical to help, but any suggestions on where to find someone = experienced in=20 doing that type of work? I had asked several carpenters, &=20 "handy-men" I found in the local paper & yellow pages, but = got=20 flustered and down to the wire on getting the window in...(look at me=20 now!)
Thanks in advance!
Lynn
=
 
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD8182.D3051860-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 12:04:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 11:23:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike From: Mike Simpson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: thermostat iron Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:25:14 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <199805171725.SAA00512@jackel.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Weller thermostatically controlled irons such as the WD100 use a method of control called a "magnestat". This works by what is known as the "Curie effect" where certain materials can be magnetic up to a certain temperature and suddenly become non-magnetic when they become hotter than that temperature. In the back of the soldering iron tips is a small slug of one of these materials (this is the bit with the `7', `8' or whatever stamped on it) slightly different materials are used for the different temperatures. A small magnet in the soldering iron is connected to a switch and as long as the tip is below the curie temperature it will be pulled towards the slug; but when the temperature is high enough the slug mecomes non-magnetic and the magnet drops back switching off the element. You can check this yourself by gently inserting and removing a tip from a WD100 soldering iron: when it is cold there will be a slight pull as it is pulled towards the magnet, you should also hear a slight click from the switch. As far as a rheostat, variable transformer or other controller doing any harm, don't worry, the temperature is maintained by switching the iron full on or full off. When the iron is switched on but not in use the element is switched on for short periods and off for long periods but when heat is being drained away (for example by using it to solder anything) the element will be switched on for longer periods and off for shorter periods. If you use a rheostat to reduce the power and the rheostat is set high (say 75%) there will be almost no change in temperature but the element will be switched on for longer and off for shorter times. If, on the other hand, you set the rheostat to low power the tip will never reach temperature where the current is switched off but the iron will not overheat because it is getting less power. One other small piece of information about the magnestat used in these Weller irons, the "hysteresis", the difference between the element switching on and switching off, is critically dependant on the gap between the mangnet and the slug of material that controls the temperature and any change of this distance will cause larger swings in temperature. The most common reason for this distance changing is a build up of corrosion or other gunk on the collar around the tip or inside the recess on the element that it sits in, this in turn is is most commonly caused by using the iron in a tip-upwards position allowing flux to run down into the body of the iron. In summary then, go ahead and use a rheostat with the iron. Mike Simpson. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 14:02:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 13:33:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: WhispyBlu@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: Geez (get over it) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 16:32:58 EDT Message-ID: <1998May17.203258.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_895437178_boundary Content-ID: <0_895437178@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Dear LuAnn Yes they do get a bit carried away.. I took bungi off the reg list but will continue to send out the chat invite because some people that have access to aol do enjoy getting the info.. and have come to the chat as a result.. As for the language problems I have know idea what causes this problem... Again Thankyou to those of you that appreciate the work that i do and realize the time involved... Thankyou The Puzz >^..^< --part0_895437178_boundary Content-ID: <0_895437178@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: Whispy Blu Return-path: To: PUZZYKATZ@aol.com Subject: Geez (get over it) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:45:42 EDT Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Pk! If people would have read all of their mail before reacting they would have seen your opology. One opology should have been enough. Just a friendly suggestion, either leave bungi off your list completely for everything or e- mail the list separately regarding the chat. It might save you alot of garbage from others. Thanks for all of your time and effort regarding the chat, patterns, sites, pics, etc...... Lu Ann --part0_895437178_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 15:10:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 14:19:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!lydia From: "Lydia" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 15:35:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May17.113536.0> Precedence: bulk One other question, do you ever use your weller 100 without the rheostat ? Does the internal temp control still work? Thank you all very much for the input, I have learned so much in the past few months it would have taken years of lessons.. nothing like a time capsule as a way of learning :) -----Original Message----- From: Whispy Blu To: lydia@voicenet.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control >In a message dated 5/15/98 4:44:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time, >lydia@voicenet.com writes: > ><< now my instructor tells me that I might burn > out my Iron if I use it, but the retail store that I purchased the temp > control from said I could use the Weller Iron, that he has been using one > for 12 years. >> > >Hi Lydia! > >I have been receiving the same contradictory information for over 4 years. I >have been using the Weller 100 on a rheostat for those 4 years and it hasn't >burned it out yet. I know this doesn't really answer your question >directly, but it's the best example/answer I can give you. Maybe I've just >been fortunate. > >Lu Ann >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 15:32:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 14:39:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: thermostat iron Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:40:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May17.74024.0> Precedence: bulk The major objection I have to a thermostatically controlled iron is that the temperature does not remain constant. The iron heats to a point, the 'stat kicks in and the temp drops...iron cools off and the stat kicks in and the temp rises. I prefer my 1,100 ungar HP and a rheostat to get and keep a specific temp. Object is to melt solder, higher temp solder melts FASTER and seems to flow better! Downside glass is easier to crack with a hot iron, but one should spend less time soldering in any specific area. enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 15:39:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 15:08:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "PUZZY KATZ" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Geez (get over it) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:34:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May17.73424.0> Precedence: bulk The only POSITIVE thing I can ascertain from your postings, is that I receive no TEXT!!!!! I am grateful for little things such as that. enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 16:15:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 15:28:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: Whispy Blu To: lydia@voicenet.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:23:57 EDT Message-ID: <1998May17.222357.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 5/17/98 5:11:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time, lydia@voicenet.com writes: << do you ever use your weller 100 without the rheostat ? >> Hi Lydia! Yes, I usually use my Weller Thermostat Controlled Iron without the rheostat......using the rheostat is only used when I need a cooler temp. Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 17:08:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 16:15:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Me again Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 15:26:20 -0700 Message-ID: <199805172226.PAA04364@norm.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi again; >I really hate it when I sound sooo stupid, but here's another question; >In regards to the 8ft. panel that I have to repair( this is just another = >reason I DON'T especially take my Instructor's advice) >My instructor advised me that to install the panel, I should put clear = >caulking all around the back edges, & just stick the panel up into the = >existing opening. Install a few metal screws w/heads around the sides & = >wait until it's dry & remove the screws. If the client wants it trimmed = >out in wood, they have the option to find someone to do it.=20 >I live in Arizona, so not much of a problem exists for moisture, but...=20 >seems to me that it is just too much weight for just caulking to hold it = >properly. But then again, seems like it would distribute the weight = >pretty evenly. >What do you guys think? >By the way... Re: installation. I think it's really important to at least be on site all the time during installation and make sure the glass is always VERTICAL AND NEVER LAID DOWN FLAT...but guess you've learned that one. Remember that old saying that free labour always ends up costing more in the end??? :-) I either do my own installations or hire a friend's husband (ex-carpenter) to help. Make sure to take carpet scraps to set your ladder up on...so many people have hardwood floors now...Also take a drop cloth and a small brush and dust pan to clean up after yourself. If you need help, call a regular commercial glass shop/window installer and have them handle the glass for you. It pays to make friends with a glass shop before you need them. I have one that does window replacements for me and refers people looking for stained glass. If I ever got a really big commission that won't fit in my truck on my glass rack I'd call the glass shop to come and get it at the studio with their van and have them work with me on the installation. If you're hiring someone to help with the installation, make sure you allow for that cost when bidding the job. and NO, a few screws is NOT "good enough". Use quarter round trim or small square dimensional lumber (e.g. 3/4" square). I'm going to start using the latter because it doesn't need mitered corners. :-) That makes the installation easier. You will want to determine in advance whether the wood trim should be painted or stained/varnished...client may have stain/paint that matches the window trim. Then pre-drill holes through the trim lumber before you install window. I use screws rather than nails...don't like the idea of swinging a hammer that close to my glasswork. You may want to think about countersinking the heads and puttying the holes, depending on how visible the screw heads are going to be...for instance on a side light. This is all stuff I've gleaned from the tutelage of other bungi members over the past couple of years, and want to pass on the mentoring that others have done for me. Cheers Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 17:30:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 16:32:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: thermostat iron Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 16:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805172332.QAA27403@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi H, How does that saying go??? Hit it right on the nail or something??? (Chuckle) For years my iron's been a pain, just doesn't keep up. Two irons in 17 years, and still got both. I'm due for a new one. I've often wondered what it would be like running off a rheostat. I'maa gonna try it! Thanks,H Smiles, Cindy > Good news for Cindy coming from H; >The major objection I have to a thermostatically controlled iron is that the >temperature does not remain constant. The iron heats to a point, the 'stat >kicks in and the temp drops...iron cools off and the stat kicks in and the >temp rises. >I prefer my 1,100 ungar HP and a rheostat to get and keep a specific temp. > >Object is to melt solder, higher temp solder melts FASTER and seems to flow >better! Downside glass is easier to crack with a hot iron, but one should >spend less time soldering in any specific area. > >enjoy, H > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 17:40:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 16:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: Kris To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: unwanted pictures Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:30:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May17.153049.0> References: <<1998May17.64528.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk I believe she said she was sorry, said it was a mistake. What do you have to do to put an end to the scolding and complaining? No, I don't know her, I just know it could have been me goofing up, or maybe most anyone in our group. Kris Rick Lasita wrote: > > Gee I guess I'm lucky, all i got was the header with no pix ;-) Rick > http://home.fuse.net/crafts/ > > Cindy Pesonen wrote: > > > > Hi Guys, > > I also have gotten Puzzy's pictures unreadable and takes a along time to > > come thru. I've deleted them, but do they reside in a cache some where else? > > I clean out one cache (netscape) but don't know if there's something else > > I know it's a dumb question, sorry. I'd like to be sure that I'm not wasting > > space in my old computer. > > Thanks a bunch, > > Smiles Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 17:55:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 16:46:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: under utilized tool! Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 15:32:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May17.83252.0> Precedence: bulk Once upon a time we had a discussion about useful tools and such. I have discovered another tool which definitely relates to glass (list anyway). I use outlook express and while "messing" around with the "in-box" assistant (my wife was not home), I was able to improve on the "if from (your name here) send to delete folder. As a test I have consigned a few specific posters the admirable position of "if from (your name here) remove from server. I would like to tell those "chosen" folks how it its working, but alack and alas, I have no prompt that allows me to respond to(your name NOT here). Feel free to post anyway as my "assistant" can handle it. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 18:12:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 17:29:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!HimJolly From: Him Jolly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: PUZZ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 20:27:50 EDT Message-ID: <1998May18.02750.0> Precedence: bulk I'm suprised that tere are so many cyberspace jackals just waiting to pounce. I, m sure that this person Puzz did not know she was causing a problem by sending the pictures, yet so many chewed her up--------THINK people of never never land -----of what you say, how you say it, and of the other persons feelings---------Again ---I'll bet this was un-intentional and she deserves an apology--------- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 20:14:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 19:38:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: Whispy Blu To: kristc@home.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: unwanted pictures Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:36:43 EDT Message-ID: <1998May18.23643.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 5/17/98 7:41:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time, kristc@home.com writes: << I believe she said she was sorry, said it was a mistake. What do you have to do to put an end to the scolding and complaining? No, I don't know her, I just know it could have been me goofing up, or maybe most anyone in our group. >> If people would read all of their mail before "jumping" they might not need to "jump"....PK DID opologize and has taken steps so it won't happen again. I too have made goofs on the computer......but you & I, Kris, must be in the minority for making mistakes. Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 17 20:33:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 17 May 1998 19:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp36.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: "suzy@comcat.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Gallery, revisited. Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:37:38 -0400 Message-ID: <199805180237.WAA00977@ppp36.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805162145.RAA03925@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk suzy@comcat com twistes the bytes to say: suzy@comcat> Daniel, suzy@comcat> About the Gallery - would it be possible to have each person on their own suzy@comcat> separate page, including their Bio and E-mail address if they agree? Few things are impossible in life. We'll see how the gallery develops. -- Daniel M. German "A first-rate laboratory is one in which mediocre scientists can produce Patrick Maynard Stuart Blackett ->outstanding work" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 02:54:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 02:25:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: unwanted pictures Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:12:55 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May18.111255.0> Precedence: bulk At 19:30 17/05/98 -0400, Kris and Whispy Blu wrote: >I believe she said she was sorry, said it was a mistake. What do you >have to do to put an end to the scolding and complaining? No, I don't >know her, I just know it could have been me goofing up, or maybe most >anyone in our group. > >Kris > Kris and Whispy - the reason I put fingers to keyboard on this topic was that the latest set of 9 messages each with 45 pages of unreadable computer coding was sent about 24 hours AFTER the apology for previous errors. If all she/he had to do was alter the settings for recipients she/he should have seen that the error was not repeated on so many messages at the same time. I imagine this valid reason for complaint would apply to all those who put in their 2 cents. To misquote Oscar Wilde "to have done this once was unfortunate, to repeat it after knowing how to correct the error was inconsiderate" Regards Elizabeth ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 06:26:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 05:34:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:33:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.4334.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by PUZZY KATZ >1) There are three different thicknesses of foil. = What are the purposes for each? = 2) Why do you need to stretch lead came? What's the best way to stretch it? = How do you know when you've stretched enough?< Um...Puzzy Katz...is this a test or are these legitimate questions to which you seek an answer? If the former, I decline to participate just to chat. If the later, then I'll answer. Just let us know if you really are seeking answers to these questions. I can't tell what your intentions are from the questions. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 06:57:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 05:50:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: Kris To: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: unwanted pictures Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:46:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.44641.0> References: <<1998May18.111255.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Agreed. I didn't realize that happened since I've only got blanks from her. Sorry, didn't see the whole picture here. Oops, bad pun :o) Kris > To misquote Oscar Wilde "to have done this once was unfortunate, to repeat > it after knowing how to correct the error was inconsiderate" > Regards > Elizabeth ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 07:27:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 06:30:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: P D RUSS To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: unwanted pictures Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:28:27 EDT Message-ID: <1998May18.132827.0> Precedence: bulk << In a message dated 98-05-17 11:37:13 EDT, you write: << > Hi Guys, > I also have gotten Puzzy's pictures unreadable and takes a along time to > come thru. I've deleted them, but do they reside in a cache some where else? > I clean out one cache (netscape) but don't know if there's something else > I know it's a dumb question, sorry. I'd like to be sure that I'm not wasting > space in my old computer. > Thanks a bunch, > Smiles Cindy >> I also deleted pictures from people I don't very well. Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 07:58:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:13:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Flamers Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:10:09 EDT Message-ID: <1998May18.14109.0> Precedence: bulk Dear MS. Elizabeth, Im not sure what your problem is... I sent the emails with attachments out sat. day... Which I apologized for when I realized what id done... ( Even tried to hit the unsend button ) And have not sent any pics out since so these 9 emails that your refering to simply do not exist... I have taken bungi members off the reg pic list.... I will continue however to send chat reminders which come out on wed. and sat... Which state very clearly (Don't forget tonights chat) in the subject catogory. Any other responces have been reg posts... I know for a fact that you can read these because you've responded to my posting on other occassions. Newsgroups seem to have no problem viewing any of my posts... As for unwanted mail, ( I get more then my fair share tooo) sweetie thats a fact of life... Those of us that have come out of the dark ages use our delete button... The Puzz >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 08:05:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 06:59:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: PUZZ and cyberjackels Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 06:46:16 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May17.234616.0> Precedence: bulk I wrote privately to Katz(way back before the picture incident) I think that the idea Katz is that you write to the general bungi about glass or related topics, not this kind of material below. Please keep the "ME ME ME im a SUZAN!!!!----" stuff to personal not general conversation. I recieved four such quips in one batch and if it continues I'm afraid that I (and possibly others), will set their computers to ignore all your letters. I'm sure that you understand that if all the bungi members did this that it would very quickly flood out the glass related topics Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada A letter which was too the point and civil and recieved back from her Puzz "Man Oh Man Who Pissed in Your Post Toasties this AM.. I was just being friendly...." It was then obvious to me that this Puzz person was not what you would call *concerned about her actions* and put her on my ignore list, so I'm afraid I have no sympathy for her regarding this new incident. A number have responded to her barrage by saying that they would ignore her letters (e.g. Jean and H) but they did so in a civil manner, which is more than I can say about this letter. To say that people are "cyberspace jackals just waiting to pounce" is childish. I'm afraid I will have to side with the people who use their freedom of choice to delete (not socialize) those they choose. There is no excuse for name calling because someone exercises their freedom of choice, just as I have for this person. I have a business to run and don't have time for people who resort to childish name calling then having the nerve to demand apologies from others. I hope than more members will remember to write civilly without unnecessary name calling or bad language. I hope that this does not grow into another "battle on bungi". Sorry to send this to bungi, but I do get tired of the infighting and wish that people would keep their personal letters personal, and I don't consider a reasonable request that someone not send pics personal as it affects so many people. So Holly and Puzz, for your information don't bother sending me E-mail because you are on my ignore list. Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: Him Jolly [SMTP:HimJolly@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 17, 1998 5:28 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: PUZZ I'm suprised that tere are so many cyberspace jackals just waiting to pounce. I, m sure that this person Puzz did not know she was causing a problem by sending the pictures, yet so many chewed her up--------THINK people of never never land -----of what you say, how you say it, and of the other persons feelings---------Again ---I'll bet this was un-intentional and she deserves an apology--------- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 08:29:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:29:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen From: David Cogen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control Date: Mon, 18 May 98 10:26:43 -0400 Message-ID: <9805181026.AA25219@LL.MIT.EDU> References: <<1998May16.04311.0>> Precedence: bulk You cannot use a rheostat on a temperature controlled iron. Oh, I suppose you can, but it would be ridiculous, and would not have the desired effect. A temperature controlled iron uses a thermostat to maintain a specific temperature. It turns the power on and off to maintain. A rheostat simply reduces the power going into the iron by a percentage. If you combine these, all you are going to have is a temperature controlled iron that takes longer to reach the control temperature, if at all. -- DavidC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 08:54:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 07:36:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: unwanted pictures Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805181435.HAA16203@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >To: Kris >From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) >Subject: Re: unwanted pictures > >Hey, Kris >No one was scolding or complaining to Puzzy. If it isn't coming thru right, like lots of computer code stuff I don't want it taking up space. >I kept my mouth shut up until the point that I was wondering if I really got rid it. >Some people didn't receive what I did, like Rick and he has lucky. > > >Kris has said; >>I believe she said she was sorry, said it was a mistake. What do you >>have to do to put an end to the scolding and complaining? No, I don't >>know her, I just know it could have been me goofing up, or maybe most >>anyone in our group. >> >>Kris >> >>Rick Lasita wrote: >>> >>> Gee I guess I'm lucky, all i got was the header with no pix ;-) Rick >>> http://home.fuse.net/crafts/ >>> >>> Cindy Pesonen wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi Guys, >>> > I also have gotten Puzzy's pictures unreadable and takes a along time to >>> > come thru. I've deleted them, but do they reside in a cache some where else? >>> > I clean out one cache (netscape) but don't know if there's something else >>> > I know it's a dumb question, sorry. I'd like to be sure that I'm not wasting >>> > space in my old computer. >>> > Thanks a bunch, >>> > Smiles Cindy >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 08:59:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:27:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Dinosaur Bob To: Lynn Alchin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Me again Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:25:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.72514.0> References: <<1998May17.35912.0>> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk I have received a number of blank emails (including Puzzy's attachments). I think there is a problem with HTML messages going through redistribution by mail server software. Could everyone that has been receiving comments about their postings please check their 'setup' or 'preferences' to see if it is sending 'test' 'HTML' or both??? If you are sending any HTML, you will either not be seen, or possibly receive testy email about your postings. Various software can/can't handle the bells and whistles available on the Net, and telling someone to upgrade is not an appropriate solution. Your mileage may vary. Lynn Alchin wrote: ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 09:27:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:07:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: Ensembles@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:55:50 EDT Message-ID: <1998May18.145550.0> Precedence: bulk Dear Christie and George These are real questions originating from the chat group... They ( the group) send them in to me and i inturn post them to Bungi for answers.. Alot of the people that ask are very new to glass... And to them these are very real questions... Also on the chat reminder I try to send links (and addressses) to differant glass related sights all over the world.. It is not my intention to fill mailboxs with unwanted mail as I have been accused.. I contacted AOL on the subject and was informed that AOL does not send email and or attachments (pictures .jpg's) in MIME format... It is converted to MIME after it leaves my computer... So there is not an adjustment that I can make on my computer.. For some reason Ive become the bad girl here when the original intent was to share and gain knowledge on the lost Art of Stained Glass... So no Christie this is not a test... I have nothing to gain or prove by playing games... Sincerely Puzzy Suzan Christie writes> Um...Puzzy Katz...is this a test or are these legitimate questions to which you seek an answer? If the former, I decline to participate just to chat. If the later, then I'll answer. Just let us know if you really are seeking answers to these questions. I can't tell what your intentions are from the questions. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 10:03:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:38:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Help me Filter Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:41:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.74139.0> Precedence: bulk I've had just about enough. Without complaining too much, I just want to = know how to filter out unwanted messages. I'm using Windows Messaging. = Can it be done or do I need to get additional software? Albert, come = home and help us out with computer questions. Thanks, Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 10:10:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 09:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: Weller 100 watt & Temp Control Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:12:05 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May18.18125.0> Precedence: bulk >You cannot use a rheostat on a temperature controlled iron. Oh, I suppose you >can, but it would be ridiculous, and would not have the desired effect. >A temperature controlled iron uses a thermostat to maintain a specific >temperature. It turns the power on and off to maintain. >A rheostat simply reduces the power going into the iron by a percentage. >If you combine these, all you are going to have is a temperature controlled >iron that takes longer to reach the control temperature, if at all. >David Cogen Quite correct, but they are using an iron that does not have a variable temperature thermostat or one with a limited range, it is a fixed temperature set by the magnetic temperature switch probably at 600 deg c.They use a controller to run the iron say at 400 deg c without the thermo stat being used at all. Temperature regulation is poor but the effect works for some jobs where not too much heat quantity is required from the iron tip.The problem with this iron discussion is that there are several types of iron and several types of thermostating methods to control them on the market at present from very simple methods to quite complex ones as switching controllers and this is confusing the discussion. Brandon S. Jones ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 10:28:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 09:31:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Dinosaur Bob To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Pardon my fat fingers Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:31:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.8318.0> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk I meant to say 'check whether you are sending 'text' not 'test' . Sorry, I just washed my hands and I can't do a thing with them. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 11:02:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 10:27:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp22.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: mail software Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:24:59 -0400 Message-ID: <199805181724.NAA01844@ppp22.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998May17.35912.0>> Precedence: bulk Dinosaur Bob : Dinosaur> I have received a number of blank emails (including Puzzy's Dinosaur> attachments). I think there is a problem with HTML messages going Dinosaur> through redistribution by mail server software. Could everyone that has Dinosaur> been receiving comments about their postings please check their 'setup' Dinosaur> or 'preferences' to see if it is sending 'test' 'HTML' or both??? After some testing I did some time ago, I realized that the problem is not whether the messages are in HTML or not. The problem is that the bungi mailing list server drops fields from the header. As a consequence, the client software --your eudora or whatever-- does not know how to handle the message. With regard to large messages, Most people use a protocol called POP. Pop allows the client to specify a maximum length that a message should have. Anything above that, the software should ask the user what to do with the message. The problem is that we have a potpourri of software. What works for one might not work for another. Dinosaur> If you are sending any HTML, you will either not be seen, or possibly Dinosaur> receive testy email about your postings. -- Daniel M. German http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 11:32:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 10:34:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: PUZZY KATZ , glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Flamers Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:33:17 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Flamers" on May 18, 10:10, PUZZY KATZ writes:] > members off the reg pic list.... I will continue however to send chat > reminders which come out on wed. and sat... Which state very clearly (Don't > forget tonights chat) in the subject catogory. Please do not continue to post the chat reminders twice a week. A one time thing,...okay fine. But twice a week is not acceptable. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 12:29:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:58:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:56:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.105612.0> Precedence: bulk IS stained glass a lost art? Hmmm, I didn't think so! But, it leads me to wonder how many folks are perpetuating the craft. Does anyone have a clue how many pros are out there, as well as hobbyists? Must be in the tens of thousands... what do you think? Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 12:59:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:59:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: unwanted pictures Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:56:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.105620.0> Precedence: bulk Luann, et al - You've been on bungi long enough to be able to figure out that "all" the messages you're talking about are merely a timing problem. Not everyone answers their mail at the same time. = Put in perspective, I'm sure you agree that a dozen criticisms out of a group of 400+ members is really not very much. It's a legitimate complaint - I for one had to have the file deleted by my server because it kept freezing up my oid computer, and that took the better part of the day. At any rate, the flamefest REALLY doesn't begin until all the lurkers jump in to comment = about flaming!! Hey, gang, how about contributing to the glass discussion some time?! As pj (the Silent One) would say..."been there, done that". This is one of those situations that will go away if you ignore it. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 14:05:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:18:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Stained Glass - Lost art? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:12:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.121225.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk Michael Greer posed an interesting question, re stained glass as a lost art. I think depending on who teaches and how far one wishes to learn would answer that question in a way. Many people only want to do stepping stones and are quite happy doing only that. I've only been doing stained glass for about 8 months and I realize now it is an ongoing learning experience and I've been learning the hard way, doing projects that are a little beyond my scope, but doing them anyway and learning from them. But a dying art, I don't think so, if anything it seems to be more popular, maybe because of more inexpensive oriental glass objects coming into the country that are making people more aware of stained glass. There just seems to be a resurgence in this art. I said for 20 years "gee I wish I knew how to do that", so I finally did and love it and love this bungi list for all the information that is shared. Carol T OIB, NC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 14:37:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: Hi imLaura To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: unwanted mail Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:39:49 EDT Message-ID: <1998May18.203949.0> Precedence: bulk E-mail allows you to communicate with people around the world. But as the Internet grows, so do the problems of "junk" e-mail -- unsolicited, unwelcome e-mail. For AOL, combating this problem is a top priority. With the Mail Controls™ feature, you can control the e-mail you and your children receive. You can block e-mail from entire domain names and specific e-mail addresses. You can even block the exchange of attached files or pictures in e-mail. We encourage you to review each of the Mail Controls™ settings that AOL makes available to you. Choose the setting that makes sense for you and your family. To use Mail Controls: 1. Make sure that you are signed onto AOL using your Master Account screen name. The Master Account screen name is the permanent screen name that was created when you first signed-on to America Online. 2. Click the Set Up Mail Controls button below. A screen will appear that displays all of the screen names on your account. 3. Select the screen name for which you'd like to use Mail Controls. 4. Click EDIT. A screen will appear, allowing you to select a particular Mail Controls setting for the screen name that you have selected. If you need assistance with Mail Controls, click on the Help button at the top of this screen. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 14:56:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:57:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: Hi imLaura To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: viruses via email Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:43:46 EDT Message-ID: <1998May18.204346.0> Precedence: bulk ere are thousands of viruses in circulation. Here are some things to look out for: * Don't Take E-mail from Strangers: Despite rumors you may have heard, you can't catch a virus by reading an e-mail or participating in an Instant Message™ conversation. You can, however, get a virus if you download an infected file attached to an e-mail. Here's a simple rule: If you don't know the sender, don't download the attachment -- no matter how interesting it may appear to be. * Take Control of Your FlashSessions: FlashSessions are a great way to retrieve your e-mail at any hour day or night so you can read it offline at your convenience. But while you're automatically retrieving that mail, you may also be downloading files that are attached to it! To make sure you don't download a file from a stranger during a Flashsession, be sure to leave the box next to "and attached files" uncheckedwhen you set up your flashsession. You can download the files later after you've had a chance to see who the mail is from. * Watch the Net: Exercise caution if you download files from the Internet (either via the World Wide Web or FTP). Look for a statement at the site saying that its files have been checked by an anti-virus program. Downloading from a legitimate site that checks its files for viruses is likely to be safe. If the files haven't been checked, or if you're not sure, then either download the file to a floppy disk and check it with your own anti-virus software or don't download from that site at all. * Spread the Word: Sure, you practice safe surfing, but what about the other members of your household? You can't watch your teenager every minute. Will the allure of a new program or game be more than they can stand? Will they download a file and then run it before scanning it with an anti-virus program? Share the information in this area with other members of your family and have a discussion about how to keep your computer safe from viruses. * Check your Floppies: Another way viruses spread is by infecting floppy disks. If you bring work home from the office, you could bring a virus home, too. Scan all your floppies to make sure they're safe. (You might also consider e-mailing files to yourself at home instead of bringing them via floppy disk.) * Back it Up: The best way to protect the data on your computer is to back it up on a regular basis. There are lots of great back-up options available these days, from tape cartridges to special high capacity disks. If a virus slips through your defenses, a back-up will let you replace files destroyed by the infection. * Stay Current: Because new viruses are being created all the time, you've got to keep your anti-virus software up to date. Look for updates containing information on new viruses from the software's publisher. And if you are already using the Dr. Solomon's Anti-Virus or FindVirus software available in the AOL Computer Protection Center, be sure to check back about every two weeks for updates to a small driver file. AOL and Dr. Solomon's update the driver file as new viruses and Trojan Horse programs are detected. * Arm Your Computer: Of course, the best way to protect yourself against viruses is to be armed with potent anti-virus software. That's why AOL teamed up with Dr. Solomon -- to make sure you could get the best virus protection around. Don't wait for a virus to happen. Go to the AOL Computer Protection Center at Keyword: Virus Info today. Buy Dr. Solomon's Anti-Virus software, or download and install a FREE demo version today! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 15:33:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 14:39:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp05.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Gallery submissions, please NO BINHEX. Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:37:41 -0400 Message-ID: <199805182137.RAA02118@ppp05.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Sorry that I kept sending messages about this. Please, when you send me files, do not send them using BINHEX encoding. Please, use base64 o UUENCODE o something else. BINHEX is the default in Macs and on top of the binhex enconding, they send the files in a way that only macs can recognize. Those files are unreadable to my little machine. Thanks! -- Daniel M. German "My friends would think I was a nut, Solsbury Hill, Peter Gabriel -> turning water into wine" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 16:02:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:27:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Lost art? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:24:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.142413.0> Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: INTERNET:tuka@bc.sympatico.ca, INTERNET:tuka@bc.sympatico.ca TO: "Michael J. Greer", GreerStudios DATE: 5/18/98 3:56 PM RE: Lost art? Sender: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca Received: from mail1.bctel.ca (mail1.bctel.ca [207.194.28.67]) by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) with ESMTP id PAA25808 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:56:33 -0400 (EDT)= From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca Received: from default (kmlp01m01-6.bctel.ca [207.102.34.6]) by mail1.bctel.ca with SMTP id MAA25178 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 12:56:31 -0700 (PDT)= Message-Id: <199805181956.MAA25178@mail1.bctel.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: "Michael J. Greer" Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:59:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Lost art? Reply-to: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca Priority: normal In-reply-to: <1998May18.105612.0> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) I don't think its "lost" at all. I know dozens of hobbyists and a = few professionals here in the interior of British Columbia, Canada. If there are that many here, there must be thousands world wide. Shiela > IS stained glass a lost art? Hmmm, I > didn't think so! But, it leads me to wonder > how many folks are perpetuating the craft. > Does anyone have a clue how many pros > are out there, as well as hobbyists? Must > be in the tens of thousands... what do you > think? > = > Best regards, > = > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ =3D > = > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > = > = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 16:31:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:51:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Lost Art? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:48:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.144853.0> Precedence: bulk You know, I kinda wish stained glass WAS a lost art. We'd get = a heck of a lot more money for what we do! Oh, well. Maybe we should put the question to our IGGA director. How many stained glass workers and hobbyists in the world today? In this country? In that country? Any ideas? Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 16:52:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!ANLGlass From: ANL Glass To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: adhesives for laminating Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:00:15 EDT Message-ID: <1998May18.23015.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Bunginians! I'm doing some playing around with laminating glass, and could use any suggestions for adhesives to use. My first try was with UV glass adhesive, which worked well but really adds up to a lot of $$$ for what I'm trying to do. I need something that dries clear, doesn't yellow over time, and won't cause any of the layers to crack. Any ideas? I heard a lecture last year where the speaker mentioned two products called Norlin and Hextol (not sure of the right spelling!) -- does anyone know about these? - Marilyn anlglass@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 17:04:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: lamps Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:16:59 EDT Message-ID: <1998May18.231659.0> Precedence: bulk The other day I was shopping in a mall, and there was a large shop advertising "antique" furniture. Well many of the pieces of furniture were definitely one of a kind, and gorgeous, and all throughout the store were tiffany style lamps. I began looking at the lamps, the first thing that caught my eye was the color choices. They just didn't "flow"....then I noticed that some of the glass was nothing special either...and by this time I was looking right down on them, the foiling and soldering were pitiful, wide gaps, curled and pitted areas, nasty looking. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this store with lovely furniture was full of junk lamps, but I was. Now if Howards' lamps were in there the store would have just glowed! Maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 17:22:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:27:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lasercom.net!jean From: "Jean" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Pendulum Clocks Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:29:18 -0700 Message-ID: <199805182321.QAA12976@intergate.lasercom.net> Precedence: bulk I have been wanting to make a pendulum clock for some time now, but never seem to get to it. Have you (ANY of 'you') made these clocks and have any helpful hints that you 'Wish you had known' a head of time? Is there anything I should keep in mind when selecting (or designing) the design? Did you use an oak frame, or make the entire clock of Stained glass? All suggestions gratefully appreciated. Jean jean@lasercom.net ICQ #7131940 NetMeeting "Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine." ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 17:34:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:45:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lasercom.net!jean From: "Jean" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Lost Art? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:45:02 -0700 Message-ID: <199805182337.QAA13618@intergate.lasercom.net> Precedence: bulk And, along with the following.. which state and/or country has the most stained glass artists/hobbyists? Jean ---------- > From: Michael J. Greer > To: All > Subject: Lost Art? > Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 3:48 PM > > You know, I kinda wish stained > glass WAS a lost art. We'd get = > > a heck of a lot more money for > what we do! Oh, well. > > Maybe we should put the question > to our IGGA director. How many > stained glass workers and hobbyists > in the world today? In this country? > In that country? Any ideas? > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 18:03:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:12:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Dinosaur Bob To: Hi imLaura , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: unwanted mail Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:24:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.142412.0> References: <<1998May18.203949.0>> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk To whoever Hiimlaura is - this is an internet mailing list, not an AOL chat group. I appreciate your wisdom, but it is not glass related, and is most likely irrelevant to the majority of the s*bscribers of this list. And it is inappropriate for general publication on this list Hi imLaura wrote: > E-mail allows you to communicate with people around the world. But as the > Internet grows, so do the problems of "junk" e-mail -- unsolicited, unwelcome > e-mail. For AOL, combating this problem is a top priority. > > With the Mail Controls™ feature, you can control the e-mail you and your > children receive. You can block e-mail from entire domain names and specific > e-mail addresses. You can even block the exchange of attached files or > pictures in e-mail. > > We encourage you to review each of the Mail Controls™ settings that AOL makes > available to you. Choose the setting that makes sense for you and your > family. > > To use Mail Controls: > 1. Make sure that you are signed onto AOL using your Master Account screen > name. > The Master Account screen name is the permanent screen name that was created > when you first signed-on to America Online. > > 2. Click the Set Up Mail Controls button below. A screen will appear that > displays all of the screen names on your account. > > 3. Select the screen name for which you'd like to use Mail Controls. > > 4. Click EDIT. A screen will appear, allowing you to select a particular Mail > Controls setting for the screen name that you have selected. > > If you need assistance with Mail Controls, click on the Help button at the top > of this screen. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 18:33:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:49:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp22.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:Lost Art? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:44:19 -0400 Message-ID: <199805190044.UAA02200@ppp22.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998May18.144853.0>> Precedence: bulk Michael J Greer twistes the bytes to say: Michael> You know, I kinda wish stained Michael> glass WAS a lost art. We'd get = Michael> a heck of a lot more money for Michael> what we do! Oh, well. Michael> Maybe we should put the question Michael> to our IGGA director. How many Michael> stained glass workers and hobbyists Michael> in the world today? In this country? Michael> In that country? Any ideas? Mike Savad has an interesting comment on what a stained glass artist is. He describes a person who copies patterns, and uses preselected glass as a craftsman. An artist has be a creator. I bet there are far more craftsmen than artists in the stained glass world. On the other hand, an artist expresses himself or herself through some type of media. Most of stained glass is commissioned with a very precise topic in mind that does not leave much to the creative side. Tiffany tried to become an artist of his time. In his first years, He was not well accepted in Europe because he was more interested in pleasing customers than being creative. That's why after he was well established, he started creating windows for his exhibits around the globe. These were the ones that truly depicted his artistic side. How many authentic stained glass artist are there? I guess it is a question extremely difficult to answer. But certainly, that also depends how you define an artist. That will determine whether you want to count the stained glass artisans from my little town or you only want to include the Chagalls, La Farges, Loires, or Tiffanys of our time. You just have to look at the impressive stained-glass works of our century to realize it is not dead. In my opinion, to compare a sun-catcher in a local stained glass shop to the Tower of Children in Hakone (by Loire) is impossible. The second is art, the former is craftsmanship. An art does not have to be practiced by millions to be alive. It has to be an evolving expression. The contemporary work done by some artists of our time continues the evolution of our loved craft. -- Daniel M. German "Beauty is the first test; there is no permanent place in the world for ugly G. H. Hardy -> mathematics." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 18:52:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:56:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: This Sat Questions for Q&A Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:53:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.165319.0> References: <<1998May18.105612.0>> Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer wrote: > > IS stained glass a lost art? Hmmm, I > didn't think so! But, it leads me to wonder > how many folks are perpetuating the craft. > Does anyone have a clue how many pros > are out there, as well as hobbyists? Must > be in the tens of thousands... what do you > think? > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass that and beyond. at first you think it's a small hobby, then you look online and there are alot of stained glass pages. when i went to that warner thing, you should have seen all the people, and that was in the general area with a few fly in's. you could barely move. of course some were just family members, but the lines to the register stretched outside. my page alone has recieved over 25,000 hits over the past year, most of which were for the first time... most are hobbiests, 1-3 years. it's hard to say how many are true profesionals there are. due to the different types of skills. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 19:04:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:58:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stained Glass - Lost art? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:56:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.165643.0> References: <<1998May18.121225.0>> Precedence: bulk Carol Tombro wrote: > > Michael Greer posed an interesting question, re stained glass as a lost > art. I think depending on who teaches and how far one wishes to learn > would answer that question in a way. Many people only want to do > stepping stones and are quite happy doing only that. I've only been > doing stained glass for about 8 months and I realize now it is an > ongoing learning experience and I've been learning the hard way, doing > projects that are a little beyond my scope, but doing them anyway and > learning from them. But a dying art, I don't think so, if anything it > seems to be more popular, maybe because of more inexpensive oriental > glass objects coming into the country that are making people more aware > of stained glass. There just seems to be a resurgence in this art. I > said for 20 years "gee I wish I knew how to do that", so I finally did > and love it and love this bungi list for all the information that is > shared. > > Carol T > OIB, NC > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com it also depends on what the term "lost" is. lost could define the old large church windows done in lead. making the came yourself, and using hot pokers for soldering irons. there may be a few out there that still does that. but foil came in, and cement... and now there are alot more terms for stained glass, it's spread out quite a bit. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 19:09:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:01:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Lost Art? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:59:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.165917.0> References: <<1998May18.144853.0>> Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer wrote: > > You know, I kinda wish stained > glass WAS a lost art. We'd get = > > a heck of a lot more money for > what we do! Oh, well. > > Maybe we should put the question > to our IGGA director. How many > stained glass workers and hobbyists > in the world today? In this country? > In that country? Any ideas? > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios you would'nt want it to be too lost. san skrit is'nt used that much. the art of building pyramids is'nt exactly popular either, and there sure is'nt a long line wanting a pyramid... :) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 19:24:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:08:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Lost Art? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:05:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.1759.0> References: <<199805182337.QAA13618@intergate.lasercom.net>> Precedence: bulk Jean wrote: > > And, along with the following.. which state and/or country has the most > stained glass artists/hobbyists? > > Jean > > ---------- > > From: Michael J. Greer > > To: All > > Subject: Lost Art? > > Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 3:48 PM > > > > You know, I kinda wish stained > > glass WAS a lost art. We'd get = > > > > a heck of a lot more money for > > what we do! Oh, well. > > > > Maybe we should put the question > > to our IGGA director. How many > > stained glass workers and hobbyists > > in the world today? In this country? > > In that country? Any ideas? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Dani Greer > > Greer Gallery & Studios i guess that would depend on the techique. i think at this present time there are more people in the united states that does stained glass. but that's in relation to the fact that we have a ton of stained glass stores. i'd say that it would be most dense in any state that is house based (since it's difficult to store and work with glasss in apartments, but not impossible though). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 19:27:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:41:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: A good will blessing Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805182340.QAA08966@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Guys, It's kinda ironical this has come to pass... I was just having a very nice chat with Glenna yesterday and thanking her for her bungi line, what it meant to me and all of you guys. It's only natural that people won't agree all the time, especially when there's so many of us. Airing opinions is part of the free world and I feel can be done nicely. Now I know I've made people mad at me, if we all were perfect wouldn't the world be great. But goodness don't we get other chances at making it better. Life is a learning process. Sometimes it takes longer for some to learn than others, but oh well. I'm very sorry that some feel I don't deserve their air time and have cut me off. Truely that message hurts because I don't get the chance to make it better. May we all try to live together, because life is too short. Don't mean to preach, I've just kinda had a sad day, arguing isn't pleasant. Usually I jump at the chance to read my meassages from you all, and today I was afraid to. Sincerely, Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 19:43:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:58:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp12.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:PHOTOGRAPHING WORK Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:55:46 -0400 Message-ID: <199805190155.VAA02304@ppp12.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998May15.224640.0>> Precedence: bulk Norman & Claudette Jaramillo twistes the bytes to say: Norman> What is the best way to photograph stained glass (lighting?). I went to the Norman> gallery and the pictures look very clear. Also, how do you photograph It depends on the type of work (I am behind my next installment, I know :) and in many cases on the particular piece. For instance, suncatchers need back light and many times some front light. As much as possible, avoid to shoot against a busy background or in the middle of a room. The background will affect your work in the photo. Put drafting paper against clear glass behind the work --at some distance-- to have a nice, white, uniform background. And use a relatively shallow depth of field. Put care in perspective to get squares and circles as such in the film. And, try, try and try, photographing stained glass --as I am learning-- requires experience. and remember, _do_ not use a flash. Norman> mirrors? I clicked on how to submit work, and got no response. Can someone Norman> help me? How big a photograph do I need? I am going to suggest to my Approx 400 pixels width, or 400 pixels long. Look at the gallery for examples. Norman> glass-group that we each submit a sample of our work. We are all hobbyist, Norman> but I think we have done some good stuff. Claudette Browse it, you'll notice all sort of levels. This is a way for people to know what kind of work you do, not to put in competition, IMHO. -- Daniel M. German "The World Wide Web looks more The Economist -> like the World Wide Mess." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 19:44:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:36:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Mosfunland" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: lamps Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:37:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May18.113734.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for the strokes....most stores wince and do not seem to take my pricing seriously. I have "cold" sold my shades when I have gotten hungry, went into a few shops on Rodeo Drive, denigrated the crap they had for sale got thrown out of a few shops as well, was told to "put up or shut up".....YES I could indeed PUT UP! Had them dim the lights in the store, brought my own extension cords and dimmers and put on a "show". Explained they could NOT afford my shades at the prices they bought the imports for, did a how sad the quality did not reflect the rest of the store and "played" hard to get...bottom line they insisted I sell them a few shades. Over the years, I have developed a few clients (victims) that will ask for a few shades each year. I usually let them know what I have, send it with a return privilege or build one with their color choices. I have been able to trade on quality a bit of integrity and not having to "grovel" to make a sale. I have a show set for the Pebble Beach Golf and Country Club for mid June....Lecture, demo, and (I hope) a few sales...It has taken me many years, a working spouse who has supported in the manner of which I have been accustomed, perseverance, tenacity and a constant effort to make them better. As I ALWAYS include in this type of a post.....DO NOT give up your day job! There is a proliferation of shades out there and a "GOOD" one will still stand out. enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 20:01:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:39:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: PUZZ and cyberjackels Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 02:38:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199805190139.CAA30385@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Oh Boy, I am going to get entangled again..... But I hope what I am going to say will find a fair amount of echoes. I am certainly NOT new to either glass NOR stained glass. I have a lot to give, a lot to share a lot to teach, as well as still a lot to learn. But I AM new to computers, I AM new to the whole business of Internet. I am certainly not a "computer freak", nor am I a "chat-line freak". As Glenn succinctly points out, HE has a business to run... and.... so have I. So have MANY others of us in Bungi. >From the many off-group e-mails I have received , from many on-group responses and most certainly from one of Glenna's "rare" appearances, there has been a lot of bottled up frustration going on about this episode. (The restraint has been electric!!) It's not JUST the thoughtless intrusion and expense of garbled pictures that nobody really wants. And if they did want them, they never got them; and not getting them (either way) cost them a day's work, a crashed computer system and a lot of expense. It is - in addition - also the attitude, which I think a lot of us find difficult to swallow. Within a WEEK, there are desperate messages into the Group asking for help in how to FILTER OUT messages (affixed with "Albert come back - all is forgiven..."). Coincindence....? Hmmmm..... If there was an apology, then it must have been a 3 word-liner hidden away in the middle of the 45 page garbled gobbledigook I received 4 times over on one day alone..... But I have not seen an explicit apology.... Moreover, apologies requires action. What's the point in apologizing, yet keep on repeating the same action again...? I too am exploring ways of filtering out people posting into Bungi. In the past it has proven to be enough to just ignore a persistant 1-off unreasonable "flamer", who just simply HAS to win a point. I TOO have a business to run..... I can't afford to pamper to unreasonableness (if there is such a word), when it goes on and on.... and on. The thought of having to filter Bungi-people goes very much against the grain. I certainly didn't join Bungi to be on a "chat-line"... In the past, when people have dissented from the Bungi-personality, they have been gracious, gone off and done their own thing. There are now at least 2 off-shoots, new glass-groups, some of whom have a foot in both camps.That's fine, and nobody is childish, petulant. A certain amount of decorum is maintained. So REAL glass information can flow. But I do not owe this "Puzzy Katz" any apology, neither does ANY of you in Bungi. I don't know who he/she/it is. He/she/it hides behind a heavily guarded pseudonym (obviously for a reason); but the petulance, blinkered vision and immaturity knows no barriers. Nor is "Puzzy Katz" prepared to "do in Rome what the Romans do". It's wonderful to introduce new ideas, new suggestions, new thoughts, new actions. Bungi DOES have its own character, personaility and "ways of persuasion". But as stained glass "newbie" - even as a computer "newbie", it is up to you to "get the right level". Listen, lurk and learn.... I have had many, many off-group e-mails from shy "Newbies". I have spent many evenings replying to them, telling them not to be afraid, not to be daunted. But my patience gets sorely tried from petulant, childish and thoughtless comments reflected in persistant "sniff"-mailings - as I call them. Self-righteous and ignorant to boot. It's a different thing trying to ram it down our throats (at considerable inconvenience, time and financial cost) and then "sniff" about us, when the reactions are different from anticipated. Many of us have seen the same 20-30 basic questions going round and round and round again over the 3 years Bungi has been on-line. There seems to be a peculiar resistance from new-comers to have a dip into our archives FIRST and THEN come back with questions.....(Should the Archives be more high-lighted?? Are they now properly sorted/categorised...?? Is there any way we can offer to help Glenna & Dave in this task??) There is a lot of tender feelings and nurturing desires from the "Old Stained Glass Pro Dogs" in Bungi towards the tentative, uncertain, unsure, stumbling beginner and "Newbie" It comes over, time and time again. Someone like "Puzzy Katz" comes towards us like a "know-it-all" and as if WE owed YOU something.... We don't! You want to learn the trade? You learn the trade! You swallow! You work! You do! With Humility - as WE have done..... You might JUST learn, that you never stop learning.... (???) And NO Dani, the Art of Stained Glass WON'T die!!!! People like you and I and...and... will make sure of it!! Pheww!! OFF Soap-Box (... and duck!!) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK P.S. I have just noticed I have received an off-group e-mail from "Puzzy Katz" asking me what "my problem is".... IIIiiieeeaaaooouuucccccchhhh!!! Elizabeth Law... Thank you for the Oscar Wilde Quotation... Sums it up!! Glenn in Canada wrote: I wrote privately to Katz(way back before the picture incident) I think that the idea Katz is that you write to the general bungi about glass or related topics, not this kind of material below. Please keep the "ME ME ME im a SUZAN!!!!----" stuff to personal not general conversation. I recieved four such quips in one batch and if it continues I'm afraid that I (and possibly others), will set their computers to ignore all your letters. I'm sure that you understand that if all the bungi members did this that it would very quickly flood out the glass related topics ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 20:16:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:09:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Jean" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Pendulum Clocks Date: Mon, 18 May 98 22:00:55 -0400 Message-ID: <199805190158.VAA20328@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Jean writes: >I have been wanting to make a pendulum clock for some time now, but never >seem to get to it. Have you (ANY of 'you') made these clocks and have any >helpful hints that you 'Wish you had known' a head of time? > >Is there anything I should keep in mind when selecting (or designing) the >design? > >Did you use an oak frame, or make the entire clock of Stained glass? Jean, I've never made one; however I've seen one made entirely of stained glass. It's in a shop in southeastern Pennsylvania - anywhere near you? It's made entirely of brown Spectrum dense wispy and it's for sale for $400. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 20:39:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:15:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: a bit more! Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:15:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May18.121545.0> Precedence: bulk Another way to get a "following" is to trade. Trade with other craftsmen/artists who you admire and have a following you would like to have as well. Trade for like retail value, and for quality of the work, too. I have over the years traded about 100 or so shades, some for practical things( dentistry, cars, firewood, gifts for me to give away and so forth) as well as fine art for the sake of having it. A local artist whose work (now) has 5 digits on the left side of the decimal point and not a lot of prices that start with a one, has 3 of my shades uses them and touts me to his clients....some of my patrons recognize his work and see him....we freely share leads as we do not compete and we re-inforce the minds and confidence of potential buyers who are comfortable in owning work we have done. Most buyers need to have the confidence in seeing other people buying the same type and it seems when I get into a group, I get passed along. more as I think of it, enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 20:47:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:58:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Cindy Pesonen" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: A good will blessing Date: Mon, 18 May 98 22:55:17 -0400 Message-ID: <199805190253.WAA23759@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Hi Cindy, Thanks for your good will blessing! Hope it helps. Periodically things like this come up and people are so quick to criticize. Truly the Bungi line is a blessing, it has helped us all and it makes us feel good to do what we can to help others, "give something back" in the words of our Prophet Barefoot. You're right, life is certainly way too short. I wish I had 100 more years to just perfect my glass! As it is I'm looking at 20 max, unless I turn into that Beatrice-something in California who is still doing her pottery at 103. So I have to cram in all I can every day just to make myself happy. We all love glass, let's try to be kind to each other just for that love. OK? And Cindy, please don't ever again be afraid to read your messages! I'll send you a happy message every day. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 21:04:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: lost craft? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:20:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May18.11205.0> Precedence: bulk Generally our endeavors are (by the "artists and that term needs to be qualified") considered a craft....anyone's dog or cat with ink on its paws and walking on a canvas or like medium, leaving tracks, could have the "designation" of fine art! I usually try to get a deeper split of the commission rate by pointing out that what I do is a "craft". Also finding out and qualifying who and how many work in this field and for profit, break even and or a loss would be as easy and definitive as finding out how high is up! As for it being lost, the equipment and training is available to a lot more of the world TODAY then when Tiffany made famous the foil method. Things go around and come around and perhaps (with a health push from countries where labor has VERY little value) they have indeed become "found". Turn of the century lamps were lit with oil wicks, electrified early 1900 and EVEN then NOT CHEAP!!!! A working wage around 1900 was $2.00 per week and 16" fly was about $90.00 then. Enough history from me, now I wait for the flack. enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 21:19:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:42:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Tinning block Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:38:44 EDT Message-ID: <1998May19.23844.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I was glancing through a catalog today. I came across something that I don't understand. What exactly is a "tinning block" for? It said you rub the tip of your iron across it to remove oxidation build up. What are they talking about? I thought that was what the damp sponge was for. Excuse me please if this is a dumb question. Please remember I am self taught. By the way, thanks again Dani, for the web page!! You're doing a great job. Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 21:22:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:48:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: softcom.net!mthaxton From: Melissa Thaxton To: PUZZY KATZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Flamers Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:49:40 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May18.124940.0> References: <<1998May18.14109.0>> Precedence: bulk Just when things are getting interesting again... oops another argument. Yes the mail caused me to get off line 3 times (what a pain when it takes forever for 1 message to come through.) get off that subject! And Puzzy, don't feed the fire. alright already back to glass!!!! 8o} PUZZY KATZ wrote: > Dear MS. Elizabeth, > > Im not sure what your problem is... I sent the emails with attachments out > sat. day... Which I apologized for when I realized what id done... ( Even > tried to hit the unsend button ) And have not sent any pics out since so > these 9 emails that your refering to simply do not exist... I have taken bungi > members off the reg pic list.... I will continue however to send chat > reminders which come out on wed. and sat... Which state very clearly (Don't > forget tonights chat) in the subject catogory. Any other responces have been > reg posts... I know for a fact that you can read these because you've > responded to my posting on other occassions. Newsgroups seem to have no > problem viewing any of my posts... As for unwanted mail, ( I get more then my > fair share tooo) sweetie thats a fact of life... Those of us that have come > out of the dark ages use our delete button... > > The Puzz >^..^< > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 22:26:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 21:12:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, jean@lasercom.net Subject: Pendulum Clocks Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:05:42, -0500 Message-ID: <199805190405.AAA17576@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>>I have been wanting to make a pendulum clock for some time now, but never seem to get to it. Have you (ANY of 'you') made these clocks and have any helpful hints that you 'Wish you had known' a head of time? Is there anything I should keep in mind when selecting (or designing) the design? Did you use an oak frame, or make the entire clock of Stained glass? All suggestions gratefully appreciated. Jean jean@lasercom.net<<< Clarity makes an pendulum clock kit with three patterns as well as oak frames and other components. Check them out for everything necessary. To my way of thinking making the clock without the oak frame is no harder than making a box. The oak frames come as a wall hanging or mantle clock for ABOUT $40.00 in addition to the clock movement!!! To rich for my blood. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com* for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 22:46:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 21:22:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: Kris To: Toby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: archives Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:47:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.194732.0> References: <<199805190139.CAA30385@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk I looked for info in the archives. I did, really! It's a daunting task. I spent three evenings of my free time and didn't even get through one month, and who knows if what I was looking for was even in that month. Thank goodness my question came up on the list again (pricing your work) and that helped me a lot. I don't know what could make it easier to get the info you want out of the tons of info that's there. Maybe group posts according to subject line or something? Anyone else been to the archives and have any ideas? I'm not a computer whiz or anything but I'd be willing to help too. Anyone have any idea how to make the archives more "user friendly"? Kris There seems to be a > peculiar resistance from new-comers to have a dip into our archives > FIRST and THEN come back with questions.....(Should the Archives be > more high-lighted?? Are they now properly sorted/categorised...?? Is > there any way we can offer to help Glenna & Dave in this task??) > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 22:58:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 21:24:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Carol Tombro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stained Glass - Lost art?-TIPS & TRICKS Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:51:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.155140.0> References: <<1998May18.121225.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi all, Just finished one of the last shows of the season, so going to start contributing a bit again, as time allows. Since I have to maximize my time in making both commissions and show inventory, I have gone to a two iron system. Both are Inland 100 watt irons, both with rheostats. Sometimes I run one with big 3/8 tip and one with 1/8 tip depending on what I'm doing. With both going at the same time, when I run a bead and one starts to 'lag' I put it back in the holder and pick up the other, it is hot and ready to go. One of the Irons and controller is hooked to a 16 gage extension cord to another room ( different circuit breaker) so it does not over load the plugs in the studio. This really speeds up the soldering process. The Multi-Core tip cleaner Elisabeth recommended, I found through Warner/Crivillaro works wonders on tips, and doesn't fume up the studio as bad as the sal-amoniac block. I put an exhaust fan in the window behind the soldering area, and on high it really pulls the fumes out. Also have a 'Fume Trap' that sits right next to the soldering line. Using a few large 'Rubbermaid' storage boxes, with 3/8 inch plywood on top, all this on top of my work benches, allows me to vary the height at which different projects are 'worked' For the Window side light panel commission I just finished, I worked out a 'plywood sandwich' for the folks to take with them to their summer home in Rhode Island where it will be 'put in place'. It will be put inside an existing window, and held in place with wood quarter round molding. Pre-drilled and screws, not nails. Since it was 7 1/2 inches wide and 66 1/2 inches long, figuring out a safe way to transport was a challenge. So-one sheet of 3/8 inch plywood ( 4' x 8') cut in 3 pieces vertically did the trick. I constructed the panel on one, and when done sandwiched it between the other two, with 'bubble wrap' on either side of the stained glass. I do mostly copper foil work, a lot of 3 D boxes and such. Hope these tips help some of our newer glass people, and perhaps, everyone can contribute their favorite tips from time to time. Also Mike Savad has some marvelous tips on his home web pages, I learned some new stuff from there too. (Thanks Mike) Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > > Michael Greer posed an interesting question, re stained glass as a lost > art. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 23:02:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 21:25:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: ANL Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: adhesives for laminating Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:50:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.165027.0> References: <<1998May18.23015.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Yes, please, I need the same info-anybody out there can help? The short shelf life of UV adhesives and cost of UV light are factors in trying to get some other water-clear method if there is one? Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ANL Glass wrote: > > Hi Bunginians! > > I'm doing some playing around with laminating glass, and could use any > suggestions for adhesives to use. My first try was with UV glass adhesive, > which worked well but really adds up to a lot of $$$ for what I'm trying to > do. I need something that dries clear, doesn't yellow over time, and won't > cause any of the layers to crack. Any ideas? I heard a lecture last year > where the speaker mentioned two products called Norlin and Hextol (not > sure of the right spelling!) -- does anyone know about these? > > - Marilyn > anlglass@aol.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 23:12:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 21:37:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stained Glass - Lost art?-TIPS & TRICKS Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:31:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May18.203117.0> References: <<3560C98C.D3FA8404@home.com>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk > > > > Michael Greer posed an interesting question, re stained glass as a lost > > art. Hi all, Just finished one of the last shows of the season, so going to start contributing a bit again, as time allows. Since I have to maximize my time in making both commissions and show inventory, I have gone to a two iron system. Both are Inland 100 watt irons, both with rheostats. Sometimes I run one with big 3/8 tip and one with 1/8 tip depending on what I'm doing. With both going at the same time, when I run a bead and one starts to 'lag' I put it back in the holder and pick up the other, it is hot and ready to go. One of the Irons and controller is hooked to a 16 gage extension cord to another room ( different circuit breaker) so it does not over load the plugs in the studio. This really speeds up the soldering process. The Multi-Core tip cleaner Elisabeth recommended, I found through Warner/Crivillaro, works wonders on tips, and doesn't fume up the studio as bad as the sal-amoniac block. I put an exhaust fan in the window behind the soldering area, and on high it really pulls the fumes out. It is the 'Vornado' type fan. Also have a 'Fume Trap' that sits right next to the soldering line. Using a few large 'Rubbermaid' storage boxes, with 3/8 inch plywood on top, all this on top of my work benches, allows me to vary the height at which different projects are 'worked' For the Window side light panel commission I just finished, I worked out a 'plywood sandwich' for the folks to take with them to their summer home in Rhode Island where it will be 'put in place'. It will be put inside an existing window, and held in place with wood quarter round molding. Pre-drilled and screws, not nails. Since it was 7 1/2 inches wide and 66 1/2 inches long, figuring out a safe way to transport was a challenge. So----one sheet of 3/8 inch plywood ( 4' x 8') cut in 3 pieces vertically did the trick. I constructed the panel on one, and when done sandwiched it between the other two, with 'bubble wrap' on either side of the stained glass. I do mostly copper foil work, a lot of 3 D boxes and such. Hope these tips help some of our newer glass people, and perhaps, everyone can contribute their favorite tips from time to time. Also Mike Savad has some marvelous tips on his home web pages, I learned some new stuff from there too. (Thanks Mike) I also just discovered that Albert (thank you Albert) has done a great job in getting a web page up for me. For a few pictures of my most current work, link below. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 23:16:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 21:37:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "CWWSLW" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Tinning block Date: Tue, 19 May 98 00:33:59 -0400 Message-ID: <199805190432.AAA29847@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Susan wrote: What exactly is a "tinning block" for? It said you rub the tip of >your iron across it to remove oxidation build up. What are they talking >about? Susan, a tinning block is a small round container that you rub your iron into to make it all shiny and silver again, officially called "tinning the iron." It is for occasional use as opposed to the sponge, which is for frequent use. There is also something called "Sal Ammoniac" which is a big white block you can use to tin your iron. It works much slower and takes more rubbing than the Multicore tinning block, which is almost instant in its cleaning. I use the Multicore exclusively now; it costs more but is worth it IMHO, before I turn the iron off, to make it nice & clean for the next session. Also I've found, if you drop in a bit of solder that seems to make it last longer and tin the iron even better. Try one, you'll like it! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 18 23:33:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Choosing the Right Glass Date: Tue, 19 May 98 01:00:33 -0400 Message-ID: <199805190458.AAA01129@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk OK Guys, here's a question that I hope will bring some lively debate. How do you choose your glass? What types and textures of glass have you found that "work together" well? I take my good old time with this, it's my very favorite part of the whole process. I usually pick the glass I think will work best for the focal point of a panel, then I choose several others that might contrast well with it, and sit them on a window sometimes for many days, switching them back and forth to see how they look at different times of day. Also, if I know the panel will be put in north or south light, I use that side of my house. I pass by them several times, change my mind a zillion times, my husband says I spend "an inordinate time" doing this. I don't start the panel until something inside me says, this makes me feel good. Some good combinations I've found over the years: Waterglass: they all seem to be made to go together well. Some especially good combinations: dark red with steel blue, red & amber with dark amber, grape with teal, all three purples combined, the blues are dynamite together, and they're nice too with the dark red. Salvation Jane Muffle with Waterglass Grape, Noogie blue-green and Bullseye wispy white. Throw in a few bevels with this! For butterflies: Spectrum pink wispy with Baroque iridized black on clear; that new Bullseye "Easter Egg" glass with any complementary antique. Fremont yellow & white with spectrum black on clear. Yough clear iridized with Fremont pink & blue. Fremont pink & blue with Spectrum Ice iridized. Muffle Midnight Blue with dark purple swirled, and a clear to lighten it up. Muffle Sage Green, Gold and Burnt Orange, with maybe some Grape Waterglass and Salvation Jane. Yough Dark Water with Yough Greenish-Blue. There's enough variations in both to make it striking using just the two with a neutral or blue background. Yough Dark Water with that light Bullseye white with mottles. Ice White Yough with Red & Orange Urobouros. For candleholders, gluechip gives the best glow. I like to mix a few colors with complementary nuggets and bevels. Can you tell I can't sleep tonight??? Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 02:13:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 01:02:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: luton.ac.uk!david.outram From: david.outram@luton.ac.uk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: PUZZ and cyberjackels Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:01:55 GMT Message-ID: <1998May19.9155.0> Organization: University of Luton Precedence: bulk Please just to end this and get on with Glass, For those who do not know mail passes though relays where they are queued. so it is possible for mail to be sent and recieved in the wrong order, ie Puzzy's pictures and appology. If the pictures went though a relay to th UK that was busy and her appology through another with little or no queed mail it is possible for the appology to arrive firt. Therefore for those of you who are not 100% computer geeks please have a little tolerance, and for those of us who are shame on you! back to glass and lurking! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 03:46:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 02:45:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Food for thought...(not glass related) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 05:41:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May19.14146.0> Precedence: bulk We aren't human beings having spiritual experiences. We are spiritual being having human experiences....Please let's try and get along. Jill Medlyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 06:44:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 06:12:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: This Sat Questions for Q&A Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:10:54 +0000 Message-ID: <199805191311.OAA04768@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hmm, Dani... Interesting question... Over the years I must have taught between 3000 - 4000 people, not including my workshops. Of those, 4 are now pro's (that I know of); one of these now live in the South of France and may well have started teaching there. What will happen to my 2 "Aussies", when they finally return back to Australia is anybody's guess. It would be a nice thought if I could equip them sufficiently for the ripple-effect to continue over there too. I almost had someone come over from Canada this summer specifically to learn from me. It fell through, because I pointed out to her that it was a long way to come when there were so many more courses she could attend in either Canada or USA (so she is now someone else's student.... ;-> ) How many more enthusiasts will I still teach until I become fodder for the daisies??? How many more - in turn - will THEY teach?? Lost art?? Don't think so... Questions many of my students ask: ...but how did they do it BEFORE electricity or gas... or...or.. So now and then I show them old tools I have dug up from some dusty corner and we experiment. Great fun! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Dani wrote > > IS stained glass a lost art? Hmmm, I > didn't think so! But, it leads me to wonder > how many folks are perpetuating the craft. > Does anyone have a clue how many pros > are out there, as well as hobbyists? Must > be in the tens of thousands... what do you > think? > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass that and beyond. at first you think it's a small hobby, then you look online and there are alot of stained glass pages. when i went to that warner thing, you should have seen all the people, and that was in the general area with a few fly in's. you could barely move. of course some were just family members, but the lines to the register stretched outside. my page alone has recieved over 25,000 hits over the past year, most of which were for the first time... most are hobbiests, 1-3 years. it's hard to say how many are true profesionals there are. due to the different types of skills. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 07:44:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 06:53:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Newcomer from UK Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:49:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199805191350.OAA05440@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi all, In all the latest drama, I would not like to neglect the opportunity to welcome yet one more to the Bungi Group from UK. Welcome Brandon!!!! There are about 8-10 of us in the UK in the Bungi Group. >From what I can see, you are at Birmingham University..... Tell us MORE!!! ;-> (Patrick Kelly! Do your Stuff!) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (North Hertfordshire) Quite correct, but they are using an iron that does not have a variable temperature thermostat or one with a limited range, it is a fixed temperature set by the magnetic temperature switch probably at 600 deg c.They use a controller to run the iron say at 400 deg c without the thermo stat being used at all. Temperature regulation is poor but the effect works for some jobs where not too much heat quantity is required from the iron tip.The problem with this iron discussion is that there are several types of iron and several types of thermostating methods to control them on the market at present from very simple methods to quite complex ones as switching controllers and this is confusing the discussion. Brandon S. Jones ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 08:11:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 06:59:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: A good will blessing Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805191359.JAA28545@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Suzanne, Sorry to inform you that Beatrice Wood is dead at the age of 105. my best, pj > >You're right, life is certainly way too short. I wish I had 100 more >years to just perfect my glass! As it is I'm looking at 20 max, unless I >turn into that Beatrice-something in California who is still doing her >pottery at 103. So I have to cram in all I can every day just to make >myself happy. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 08:17:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 07:21:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: CWWSLW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tinning block Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:10:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May19.61052.0> References: <<1998May19.23844.0>> Precedence: bulk CWWSLW wrote: > > Hi all, > I was glancing through a catalog today. I came across something that I don't > understand. What exactly is a "tinning block" for? It said you rub the tip of > your iron across it to remove oxidation build up. What are they talking about? > I thought that was what the damp sponge was for. > Excuse me please if this is a dumb question. Please remember I am self > taught. > By the way, thanks again Dani, for the web page!! You're doing a great job. > > Susan > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the tinning block is used when you first buy an iron and when a sponge won't work anymore. the oxidation is the black to brown stuff on your iron. sometimes you can't see the oxidation, instead you'll notice that certain parts of the tip is'nt heating up as hot anymore. the tinning block (as explained to me at one point), is like lux for your iron. i think i explained it under tool maintenance on my page. but basically you rub the hot iron over a spot, usually a corner. it will smoke a bit and try not to burn yourself. put a litle 50-50 on the tip and let it sit there for about a minute. then wipe off on your sponge and repeat the process a second time. before you put the iron away for the day put a little bit of solder on the tip. it's ok if it has a drip on it. this will seal the tip and help prevent contamination from rust or oxidation, etc. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 08:51:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:19:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass Wax Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:17:34 EDT Message-ID: <1998May19.151734.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone out there know if "Glass Wax" brand glass polish is still around? I remember it from when I was a kid in the pre-Windex days but haven't seen it in years. I'm asking because I have some slightly cloudy window glass I'd like to clean up, and am thinking that Glass Wax or something like it might be less expensive than Kem-O-Pro etc. And while we're on the subject, does anyone know what the differences are between Glass Wax, car wax, and stained glass finishing compunds? Seems to me they all have similar ingredients (carnauba wax, superfine abrasives, and antioxidants) and do basically the same thing. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 09:14:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: adhesives for laminating Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:17:25 EDT Message-ID: <1998May19.151725.0> Precedence: bulk Marilyn asked: > I'm doing some playing around with laminating glass, and > could use any suggestions for adhesives to use. My first try > was with UV glass adhesive, which worked well but really > adds up to a lot of $$$ for what I'm trying to do. I need > something that dries clear, doesn't yellow over time, and > won't cause any of the layers to crack. Any ideas? Has anyone tried "Red Devil" adhesive? The artist who designed the big mosaic for Children's Hospital last year (which Christie & I worked on) tested all kinds of stuff and ended up using that. I don't know how well it will bond glass to glass (she used a plywood backing) or how long it will last, but I do know that it dries clear, isn't supposed to yellow, and was strong enough to tear up the wood backing when we had to pry off misplaced pieces. It's not horrendously expensive either. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 09:22:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:39:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: Newcomer from UK Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:36:42 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May19.173642.0> Precedence: bulk >Hi all, >In all the latest drama, I would not like to neglect the opportunity >to welcome yet one more to the Bungi Group from UK. >Welcome Brandon!!!! >There are about 8-10 of us in the UK in the Bungi Group. >From what I can see, you are at Birmingham University..... >Tell us MORE!!! ;-> Hi everybody.. very brief information about me I think. I am a member of the academic staff of the university in the school of Electronic and Electrical Engineering.My interest in glass goes back a few years in the form of pushing glass to optical wavelenghts not cutting and forming glass as the group interest is.I am new to this side of glass and at present I am basically spending several months researching methods before attempting even a first design mainly for installation in my own house for my own pleasure. I have always been practical, a compulsive hobbyist in some form or another and come from a family that most of the members are craft skilled in either hobby or professional contexts. As far as hobbies are concerned I usually achieve reasonable skill levels but never perfectionist skill levels and expect to do the same with coloured glass in whatever I choose to attempt in the future as projects.The group in general seems very friendly and informative in the time that I have been lurking. The flames and the clashes are perfectly normal in the context of variety in human psychology that I understand and have been identical in all the other lists or groups that I have attended in many years into the past in other hobbies or work related subjects..it will never change. I think I will now go back to lurking but I will drop in if I think I have 2 cents to add to the discussions or if I need to pose a question in future. Nice to meet you all over the magic wire.. Brandon S. Jones ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 09:46:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:43:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Wholesale versus retail Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:42:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May19.7422.0> Precedence: bulk Hi gang. Question for the pros. I'm at that point in my professional career where I've been invited to participate in my first wholesale show. I currently own a combination retail art glass store and stained glass studio, and mostly do custom stained glass commissions. But recently I've successfully developed a line of stained glass items which have really caught the attention of retail gift stores. Hence the interest in going wholesale. Question - can anyone give me a quick set of pros/cons to going full-time wholesale for stained glass? I would really appreciate it. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 10:07:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:08:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Witchdoc3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Wax Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:06:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May19.862.0> References: <<1998May19.151734.0>> Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3 wrote: > > Does anyone out there know if "Glass Wax" brand glass polish is still around? > I remember it from when I was a kid in the pre-Windex days but haven't seen it > in years. > > I'm asking because I have some slightly cloudy window glass I'd like to clean > up, and am thinking that Glass Wax or something like it might be less > expensive than Kem-O-Pro etc. > > And while we're on the subject, does anyone know what the differences are > between Glass Wax, car wax, and stained glass finishing compunds? Seems to me > they all have similar ingredients (carnauba wax, superfine abrasives, and > antioxidants) and do basically the same thing. > > Sparks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i think the only main difference is that certain waxes come off easier then other's. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 10:19:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:44:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Tinning block Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:41:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May19.74159.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Susan: >What exactly is a "tinning block" for? It said you rub the tip of your iron across it to remove oxidation build up. What are they talking about? I thought that was what the damp sponge was for.< It is a block of a substance called sal ammoniac. Directions for use: Apply a small amount of solder to each face of a well- heated iron. Rub each face of iron on Sal Ammoniac block. This will immediately brighten the iron face. Regular use makes soldering faster & more efficient. Or so says the instructions on the packet I have. I use it, as well as the wetted sponge, to clean my iron tip. I use the Sal Ammoniac block when I really need to completely clean the iron, and when the sponge just won't do. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 10:26:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:19:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Dinosaur Bob To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: FAQs and newbies was Re: PUZZ and cyberjackels Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:18:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May19.81829.0> References: <<199805190139.CAA30385@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk A suggestion to the list mom (No, I'm not adding to your work load deliberately) since this is not a robot (majodomo, or listserv) list, how about any new s*bs being directed to the archives (or an FAQ), and until they find some required info, their s*bscription is not active. You can be sure that they've at least found the FAQ, and read some of it, even if they haven't memorized it. Toby wrote: > Many of us have > seen the same 20-30 basic questions going round and round and round > again over the 3 years Bungi has been on-line. There seems to be a > peculiar resistance from new-comers to have a dip into our archives > FIRST and THEN come back with questions.....(Should the Archives be > more high-lighted?? Are they now properly sorted/categorised...?? Is > there any way we can offer to help Glenna & Dave in this task??) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 14:19:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:10:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Copy of: archives Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:08:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May19.12819.0> Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Michael J. Greer, 105715,1412 TO: Kris, INTERNET:kristc@home.com DATE: 5/19/98 12:29 PM RE: Copy of: archives Amen, Kris, we have a wealth of information in the archives! And the fact that questions re-cycle as quickly as they do tells me the archives are not being used - not to mention that folks get really bent out of shape when the suggestion is made they check the archives first!! But, I've heard tons of people comment that the files are too cumbersome to utilize. Glad I made hard copies of all the posts I felt were worth saving - they'll fill three notebooks if I ever get that far! We could write one heck of a stained glass book with all the info available!! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 14:51:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS2 From: IMN2GLASS2 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: re: prices of mosaic stones Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:11:12 EDT Message-ID: <1998May19.201112.0> Precedence: bulk Hey folks,I have been a long time lurker to this list.I have a question...Is anyone here from the northeast and selling stepping stones? I have a option to sell some of mine at a local nursery and I really have no idea how to price them! I do not know how they are selling in the north because i haven't seen any for sale up here yet. Any assistance is this would be greatly appreciated.Thanks,Judy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 15:14:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:55:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lost Art? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 05:00:15 +0000 Message-ID: <199805192119.RAA28577@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > You know, I kinda wish stained > glass WAS a lost art. We'd get > a heck of a lot more money for > what we do! Oh, well. I've certainly seen studios go on and on about how stained glass *is a lost art and assume that they follow that logic with higher prices. Maybe you're missing a bet, Dani. I can't imagine anyone really believes that line, though, since from Montgomery Ward to the local dime store, everyone seems to be stocking imported stained glass thingamabobs and lamps. > Maybe we should put the question > to our IGGA director. How many > stained glass workers and hobbyists > in the world today? In this country? > In that country? Any ideas? There are 32,000 on the Guild's list, but since we add about 1,000 a year (a guess), I know it's not exhaustive at all. Last week in Scotland I met two stained glass artists I'd never heard of before, but then they'd never heard of me or the Guild either, so that was a fair exchange. One of them teaches at Glasgow University, so all of her students will soon know about it, since she asked for info to be sent. Onward and upward. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 15:32:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:53:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Tinning block Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805192152.OAA31891@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi there, I have a question or two, but first there's a name for the oxidation build up on the tip... it's called dross. (impurities that come from the solder) The dross buildup impares the function of the tip as far a heat temperature goes. Never heard of tinning block before, I just flux the tip and rub a small amount of solder to retin, does a tinning block coat better? I use a Sal Ammoniac occasionally and it's best to have a bit of solder on your tip while working it on the bar. The smoke is awful (wonder how awful) Does the tinning bar smoke also? Any one know the general life of a tip? Has anyone any comments on the Weller sp-175? Along with my 2 Weller w100 p-3 I have an Inland temp trol 100 and it doesn't seem to work, it was bought for turning down the temp for decorative soldering, would that have wrecked it? Smiles,Cindy >Susan wrote: >What exactly is a "tinning block" for? It said you rub the tip of >>your iron across it to remove oxidation build up. What are they talking >>about? > >Susan, a tinning block is a small round container that you rub your iron >into to make it all shiny and silver again, officially called "tinning >the iron." It is for occasional use as opposed to the sponge, which is >for frequent use. > >There is also something called "Sal Ammoniac" which is a big white block >you can use to tin your iron. It works much slower and takes more rubbing >than the Multicore tinning block, which is almost instant in its >cleaning. I use the Multicore exclusively now; it costs more but is worth >it IMHO, before I turn the iron off, to make it nice & clean for the next >session. Also I've found, if you drop in a bit of solder that seems to >make it last longer and tin the iron even better. > >Try one, you'll like it! > >Suzanne >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 16:03:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:20:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: A good will blessing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:18:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199805192219.XAA13977@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Cindy, No, petal, it would certainly NOT be great if we were all perfect. It would be desperately boring and very annoying. You were exatcly the sort of person I spoke about when I mentioned about the uncertain, daunted people who occasionally knock on my (e-mail) door. Put your bright smile back again and come out and play with us again :-> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Cindy wrote: (edited): Now I know I've made people mad at me, if we all were perfect wouldn't the world be great. But goodness don't we get other chances at making it better. Life is a learning process. Sometimes it takes longer for some to learn than others, I'm very sorry that some feel I don't deserve their air time and have cut me off. Truely that message hurts because I don't get the chance to make it better. May we all try to live together, because life is too short. Usually I jump at the chance to read my meassages from you all, and today I was afraid to. Sincerely, Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 16:30:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: unwanted pictures Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:07:26 -0700 Message-ID: <199805192207.PAA17597@ark.com> Precedence: bulk In keeping with the 'spirit of glass,' Who was (or is) this "Oscar Wilde" character? >Agreed. I didn't realize that happened since I've only got blanks from >her. Sorry, didn't see the whole picture here. Oops, bad pun :o) >Kris > > >> To misquote Oscar Wilde "to have done this once was unfortunate, to repeat >> it after knowing how to correct the error was inconsiderate" >> Regards >> Elizabeth >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Wayne Munro 'Snail mail' address 2960 Suffield Road, Courtenay, B.C. Canada V9N-3V5 ICQ # 2762376 Phone and Fax-- (250) 338-5507 "Call before sending a fax so setup is complete" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 16:37:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:29:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re:Lost Art? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:28:03 +0000 Message-ID: <199805192228.XAA14087@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hello Bunginians, I enjoyed Daniel's contribution to the question Dani originally raised... Is Stained Glass a Lost Art? But I was also tempted to look in good old trusted Oxford Dictionary for the definition/s of Art (it fills up half a page). Included is a quote from Pope: "So vast is art, so narrow human wit". Some of the definitions: The application of skill to subjects of taste; Perfection of workmanship or execution as an object in itself; Skill applied to the arts of imitation and design (Hmmm... If one argues that ALL visual art is imitation). Daniel put forward a definition of Artist Craftsman How about a third one? Artisan? About a year ago (I think) we also discussed whether stained Glass is Art or Craft (Bearing in mind that e.g. a cabinetmaker can create an entirely unique piece...) Any new thoughts? Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Daniel wrote: Mike Savad has an interesting comment on what a stained glass artist is. He describes a person who copies patterns, and uses preselected glass as a craftsman. An artist has be a creator. I bet there are far more craftsmen than artists in the stained glass world. On the other hand, an artist expresses himself or herself through some type of media. Most of stained glass is commissioned with a very precise topic in mind that does not leave much to the creative side. Tiffany tried to become an artist of his time. In his first years, He was not well accepted in Europe because he was more interested in pleasing customers than being creative. That's why after he was well established, he started creating windows for his exhibits around the globe. These were the ones that truly depicted his artistic side. How many authentic stained glass artist are there? I guess it is a question extremely difficult to answer. But certainly, that also depends how you define an artist. That will determine whether you want to count the stained glass artisans from my little town or you only want to include the Chagalls, La Farges, Loires, or Tiffanys of our time. You just have to look at the impressive stained-glass works of our century to realize it is not dead. In my opinion, to compare a sun-catcher in a local stained glass shop to the Tower of Children in Hakone (by Loire) is impossible. The second is art, the former is craftsmanship. An art does not have to be practiced by millions to be alive. It has to be an evolving expression. The contemporary work done by some artists of our time continues the evolution of our loved craft. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 17:17:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 16:14:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tinning block Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:12:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May19.151221.0> References: <<199805192152.OAA31891@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk Cindy Pesonen wrote: > > Hi there, > I have a question or two, but first there's a name for the oxidation build > up on the tip... it's called dross. (impurities that come from the solder) > The dross buildup impares the function of the tip as far a heat temperature > goes. > Never heard of tinning block before, I just flux the tip and rub a small > amount of solder to retin, does a tinning block coat better? > I use a Sal Ammoniac occasionally and it's best to have a bit of solder on > your tip while working it on the bar. The smoke is awful (wonder how awful) > Does the tinning bar smoke also? > Any one know the general life of a tip? > Has anyone any comments on the Weller sp-175? > Along with my 2 Weller w100 p-3 I have an Inland temp trol 100 and it > doesn't seem to work, it was bought for turning down the temp for decorative > soldering, would that have wrecked it? > Smiles,Cindy > > >Susan wrote: > >What exactly is a "tinning block" for? It said you rub the tip of > >>your iron across it to remove oxidation build up. What are they talking > >>about? > > > >Susan, a tinning block is a small round container that you rub your iron > >into to make it all shiny and silver again, officially called "tinning > >the iron." It is for occasional use as opposed to the sponge, which is > >for frequent use. > > > >There is also something called "Sal Ammoniac" which is a big white block > >you can use to tin your iron. It works much slower and takes more rubbing > >than the Multicore tinning block, which is almost instant in its > >cleaning. I use the Multicore exclusively now; it costs more but is worth > >it IMHO, before I turn the iron off, to make it nice & clean for the next > >session. Also I've found, if you drop in a bit of solder that seems to > >make it last longer and tin the iron even better. > > > >Try one, you'll like it! > > > >Suzanne > >---- putting flux directly on the tip is bad for the tip. it makes it corode faster. rubbing it against the block does make quite a smoke screen. tip life is going to vary depending on how well you take care of it. dipping it in the flux will shorten it's life quite a bit. keeping it on for a long time without using it, will also shorten it's life. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 17:49:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 16:51:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: adhesives for laminating Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:57:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199805200017.UAA07644@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Yes, please, I need the same info-anybody out there can help? The short > shelf life of UV adhesives and cost of UV light are factors in trying to > get some other water-clear method if there is one? As I understand it, it's not that the adhesive should be water-clear, but that its index of refraction should match that of the glass that's being joined. At that point it's invisible. Those who do stained glass restoration swear by Hxtal (at the moment ... until something better comes along). Have you tried that? Look in the Sources Guide online at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guidec.htm and search for "Hxtal" -- press Control-F and type in "Hxtal" (without the quotes), then press Enter (instructions for PCs). Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 19:41:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Lost Art? Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:36:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May19.173630.0> Precedence: bulk 32,000 on the Guild's list? Gads, are they all members? Oh, I guess not since the member listing in Common Ground: Glass would be as big as a city phone directory. Speaking of CG:G, am I the only one who hasn't gotten the latest copy - I'm holding my breath in anticipation! On another subject, I picked up a copy = of Julie Sloan's article on LaFarge in the February 1998 issue of The Magazine Antiques. Very interesting, wonderful photos, and when will the book be in print? (I'm sorry, the co-author's name eludes me.) Please post info on bungi when it's available. (Can we get auto- graphed copies through IGGA?;-)) Good to have you back on board, Albert. Best regards, Dani Greer = Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 20:00:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:51:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "Toby" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re:Lost Art? Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:48:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May19.174829.0> Precedence: bulk Actually, Elisabeth, I didn't ask if stained glass was a "lost art" - If memory serves me, PUZZY KATZ gave that appraisal and I questioned whether a practice = perpetuated by tens of thousands today could be considered "lost". Now whether it's ART, well, that's another matter entirely!;-) That's a debate worth having! I can tell you right up front that I don't have the answers, but I can sure tell you intuitively what is NOT art! A clue - the word "skill" is important. Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 20:01:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:55:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: wholesale Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:44:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May19.10443.0> Precedence: bulk Part of the answer is real easy...You have to sell twice ( wholesale) as many at 50% off of retail to get the same net from a retail sale. Plus to wholesale, you can put a minimum amount of product required to be a wholesale buyer, generally give them what you WANT to build and not be bothered (your time wasted) by a one only retail buyer who feels they are doing you a favor and keeping you business with their one only purchase. Wholesaling should lead to a steady buyer if they sell, rather than a one-time purchase. I had a "clever" person get to me from a gallery and wanted to "buy direct" and of course for less. Agreed to a 10% discount for 2 shades, that was fine...they asked how long and I replied they could watch or go out for lunch and come back and the shades would be done. The person was miffed that I was going to get close to $200 for a couple hours of work. Not a problem I said, pay for the shades now, come back next week and pick them up, still take a few hours but you will feel better about waiting a week. Got my bluff called and I proceeded to make the shades while she watched and of course in under 2 hours. The short of it, she became an un-paid salesperson for me, as she would bring friends out to my shop to BUY a shade and watch me make it for them. It is all a game, you just need to know how to "play" it. I used to sell simple panel lamps both ways, retail direct, you took what I had in stock or ordered a specific color and PAID for it and when I set up for that style I would make that one as well. Wholesale at least 6 and my choice of colors and styles (NEVER tried to "stick" anyone with dogs, however) To un-established dealers, simple credit plan....100% down and no EASY additional payments. After dealing for a few times, 30 days was fine. As I usually sign off on this type of post...Do not give up your day job!!!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 20:50:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:01:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eagle.ca!glass From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:Lost Art? Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:04:59 -0400 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi Everyone, This reminds me of a wonderful display I saw once at a high-end arts & crafts show. It was a glassblowers booth and he had made a little display table on which he had placed 2 handmade water pitchers. The first pitcher looked like any ordinary water pitcher with the spout on one side of the opening and a handle on the other side. It had a card in front of it saying "Craft - $50.00". The other was an identical pitcher but the handle was placed on the same side as the spout, rendering it interesting but not useful, it's card read "Art - $500.00". :o) Sarah >About a year ago (I think) we also discussed whether stained Glass is >Art or Craft (Bearing in mind that e.g. a cabinetmaker can create an >entirely unique piece...) >Any new thoughts? > >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 21:45:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:54:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Test Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:52:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.195226.0> Precedence: bulk No messages today from the list. Goldpaws ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 19 22:09:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 19 May 1998 21:14:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: SusieHUs To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Lost Art? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:11:10 EDT Message-ID: <1998May20.41110.0> Precedence: bulk Welcome home, Albert! Any wonderful stories to tell us all about your trip? Anything new in the glass world out there? Susie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 01:50:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 01:18:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "CWWSLW" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Tinning block Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:23:01 +0800 Message-ID: <1998May21.0231.0> Precedence: bulk The tinning block is Sal Amoniac, a white flaky block that does wonders to the tip. It starts where the sponge stops. -----Original Message----- From: CWWSLW To: Glass@bungi.com Date: 19 May 1998 14:01 Subject: Tinning block >Hi all, > I was glancing through a catalog today. I came across something that I don't >understand. What exactly is a "tinning block" for? It said you rub the tip of >your iron across it to remove oxidation build up. What are they talking about? >I thought that was what the damp sponge was for. > Excuse me please if this is a dumb question. Please remember I am self >taught. >By the way, thanks again Dani, for the web page!! You're doing a great job. > >Susan >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 03:24:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 02:46:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Oscar Wilde... was unwanted pictures Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:44:12 +0000 Message-ID: <199805200945.KAA25641@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Wayne.... and others wondering... Oscar Wilde was a 19th Century playwright born in Ireland, loved for his sharp human observation, quick wit and wonderful repartee. His command of the English language is superb. The quotation Elizabeth Law refers to comes from a play called "The Importance of Being Earnest", where Earnest Worthing is explaining his past to Lady Bracknell (whose daughter he is courting). Earnest Worthing explains that he had lost both his parents as a baby and was found in a handbag at Worthing Railway station, whereupon Lady Bracknell utters the famous words: "To lose one parent, Mr. Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both parents looks like carelessness!" He also said: "When good Americans die, they go to Paris" ;-> "The English country gentleman galloping after a fox: the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable." "Art never expresses anything, but itself". On that note, I take my leave for now.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Wayne wrote: In keeping with the 'spirit of glass,' Who was (or is) this "Oscar Wilde" character? > >Elizabeth Law wrote: >> To misquote Oscar Wilde "to have done this once was unfortunate, to repeat >> it after knowing how to correct the error was inconsiderate" >> Regards >---- ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 04:25:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 03:41:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp03.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Oscar Wilde Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 06:39:50 -0400 Message-ID: <199805201039.GAA00454@ppp03.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Wayne Munro twists the bytes to say: Wayne> In keeping with the 'spirit of glass,' Who was (or is) this "Oscar Wilde" Wayne> character? No, actually he was a French/Italian artisan who was known for very wild designs and glass combinations. Hence his nickname: Wild, but as a French, it was pronounced "Wilde". -- Daniel M. German "War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is _controlled_ violence for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government's R. Heinlein -> decisions by force." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 05:25:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 04:40:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lost Art? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:47:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199805201207.IAA29820@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Welcome home, Albert! > Any wonderful stories to tell us all about your trip? Anything new in the > glass world out there? Thanks, Susie. It's good to be home. Travelling's fun, interesting, exciting, but one begins to miss one's own bed, dog, easy chair after a while. We saw some really excellent glass work designed about 100 years ago. Everything from Stephen Adam to Charles Rennie Macintosh, who was the founder of the Glasgow School of Art, an amazing and beautiful building that's still an on-going, exciting, vital school just as he founded it 'way back when. The ceilings in the painting studios are easily 40 feet above the floor. The walls are white stucco or concrete, the wood is dark, dark brown, the wainscoting rises to about 12-14 feet from the floor. What a place! The walls often are studded with glass mosaics; many of the doors are inset with lovely, very tastefully chosen stained glass in the inimical Macintosh style. Lovely. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 05:38:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 04:42:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lost Art? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:47:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199805201207.IAA29826@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > 32,000 on the Guild's list? Gads, are > they all members? Oh, I guess not > since the member listing in Common > Ground: Glass would be as big as > a city phone directory. Only about 600 of those 32000 are members of IGGA, since the Guild doesn't have the money to send them all an announcement about the organization, its benefits and programs. So the Guild is growing "organically," you might say, since it's mostly word of mouth that people hear about it. > Speaking of > CG:G, am I the only one who hasn't gotten > the latest copy - I'm holding my breath > in anticipation! You'll be able to exhale shortly. The Spring98 issue mailed out last week. After 25+ years I'm still learning, though; a funny glitch on the cover resulted in some "transparent" type. I'm going to say that I did it intentionally, although I don't know how it happened. > On another subject, I picked up a copy > of Julie Sloan's article on LaFarge in > the February 1998 issue of The Magazine > Antiques. Very interesting, wonderful > photos, and when will the book be in > print? (I'm sorry, the co-author's name > eludes me.) Please post info on bungi > when it's available. (Can we get auto- > graphed copies through IGGA?;-)) No book yet, though it's planned. The other author, Jim Yarnell, is the director of the Catalog Raisonee for John La Farge's work. That means that it will include all work ever done by La Farge. The catalog will be published before any other book (the catalog *is a book, just a particular *kind of book). So it'll be a couple of years before the book Julie and Jim plan to do even gets started. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 05:56:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 04:47:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: "IMN2GLASS2" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: prices of mosaic stones Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:43:34 -0400 Message-ID: <199805201136.HAA28894@dns.city-net.com> Precedence: bulk Judy, I have seen them in nurseries and other retail business in Pittsburgh, PA for $80 - 120$ depending on how many pieces. These were for the big round stepping stone and the hexagon (or is it octagon - I forgot). I haven't seen the small 8X8 for sale. Dany Daniela Birkelbach Software Consultant dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany ********************************************************************** "Phantasie ist etwas was sich die meisten gar nicht vorstellen k=F6nnen." Gabriel Laub ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 06:56:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:22:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Lost Art? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:20:34 EDT Message-ID: <1998May20.132034.0> Precedence: bulk Albert sez: > Charles Rennie Macintosh, who was the founder of the > Glasgow School of Art Along with his wife, Margaret MacDonald Mackintosh, who was quite the artist/designer in her own right. If I remember correctly, she was the originator of the simplified flower (originally an embroidery design, I think) that became known as the "Glasgow Rose" and was used in stained glass as well as textile designs. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 07:28:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 06:45:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Lost Art? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:36:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.53627.0> References: <<1998May19.174829.0>> Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer wrote: > > Actually, Elisabeth, I didn't ask > if stained glass was a "lost art" - > If memory serves me, PUZZY > KATZ gave that appraisal and I > questioned whether a practice = > > perpetuated by tens of thousands > today could be considered "lost". > Now whether it's ART, well, that's > another matter entirely!;-) That's > a debate worth having! I can tell > you right up front that I don't have > the answers, but I can sure tell > you intuitively what is NOT art! A > clue - the word "skill" is important. > > Best, > > Dani > ---- stained glass is an art depending on how one uses it or creates with it. if they make up there own style and not copy someone else. stained glass as a whole, is starting look become an art, mainly i think because it's colorful. if you compared SG to a painting they both can be considered art. but if you compared a hand made table, or a wicker wreath, i'd consider those crafts rather than art. i you could call it art, becuase your controlling where the color is. how it flows, and what it feels like. maybe even to evoke emotion from someone. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 07:58:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 07:19:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Lost Art? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:22:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.62228.0> Precedence: bulk Ahh, The pleasant chattiness that takes me away from work every few minutes. = Thanks for the enjoyable diversion. This is much better than the = unpleasant post from the past few days. Maybe it's that Albert is = back......:) Linda Campbell Along with his wife, Margaret MacDonald Mackintosh, who was quite the artist/designer in her own right. If I remember correctly, she was the originator of the simplified flower (originally an embroidery design, I = think) that became known as the "Glasgow Rose" and was used in stained glass as = well as textile designs. Sparks ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 08:26:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 07:21:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Dinosaur Bob To: Toby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Oscar Wilde... was unwanted pictures Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:20:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.62016.0> References: <<199805200945.KAA25641@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk My favorite quote (those who know me will know why) - 'Life is too important to be taken seriously' Toby wrote: > Dear Wayne.... and others wondering... > > Oscar Wilde was a 19th Century playwright born in Ireland, loved for > his sharp human observation, quick wit and wonderful repartee. His > command of the English language is superb. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 08:41:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 07:25:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lost Art? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:31:42 +0000 Message-ID: <199805201451.KAA06668@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Along with his wife, Margaret MacDonald Mackintosh Quite right. The Glasgow Rose is everywhere available on t-shirts, silver brooches ... you name it. The newer buildings in the city echo Macintosh's wrought iron effects, usually badly. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 09:02:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 08:18:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Art vs. Craft Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:16:24 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Seems to me you can easily have craft without art (lots of the stuff I see at "crafts" fairs), but an artist needs craftsmanship to successfully execute his/her idea, no? A most glorious concept is wasted if it's shoddily expressed.... Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 09:28:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 08:20:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Art or Craft? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:16:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998May20.1164.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All: Heard a new slant on whether stained glass is art or craft. If it is glued it is a craft, else art. We have heard reasons why some sg might be art (if originally created) or a craft if you use other people's designs. Think of all the landscapes and seacapes that have copied the "real thing" and this is often referred to as fine art. I like whoever said, Art is of its ownself in the eyes of the beholder. Stained glass is often the medium through which artists express themselves. Are we as stained glass artists trying to give ourselves status by saying stained glass is an art? This then makes the craftperson lesser. We all agree that stained glass is both art and craftmanship or skill. It is the combination of the two that makes a finished product. So, which is more important...to have a beautiful design that never gets created, or the have wonderful skills that never produce anything. I often start my basic stained glass classes by reviewing the evaluation criteria first. Explaining that each step contributes to the end result. In a like manner, from the beginning of the design to the stained glass panel, each aspect of the process contributes to the end result. Which step is more important? The easier ones? or the more difficult? They are all necessary if the final product is to measure up to our standards of art or craftmanship. I am even reading about hextal as an adhesive for stained glass. Is this the glue part that makes sg a craft? As you see, there are still more questions than there are answers. Somehow I am reminded of the age old question between lovers, is it love or lust? The usual answer here is if it lasts, then its love otherwise its lust. Just Thinking, Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 09:30:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 08:52:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Margaret41 From: Margaret41 To: cpesonen@bcinternet.net, GLASS@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Leaded panel repairs Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:51:02 EDT Message-ID: <1998May20.15512.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-16 01:48:47 EDT, cpesonen@bcinternet.net writes: << THE PANEL TO LATER CONNECT TO. AND THEN USE A DREMEL TO CUT THRU THE ZINC. >> Hi everyone - these dremel tools...i've seen them in the Home Depots, etc. - are they REALLY worthwhile (or a gimmick). What exactly can one use this tool for when doing SG...Thanks. Margaret ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 10:00:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:10:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Margaret41 From: Margaret41 To: cpesonen@bcinternet.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Painting & other stuff on SG Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:08:20 EDT Message-ID: <1998May20.16820.0> Precedence: bulk Hi again - stupid question but it has me a bit puzzled. I'm currently working on a cigar box for Father's Day. Two questions - o I want to 'paint' a label on one of the larger cigar bands. Should I paint this on AFTER construction of the box? Before initial or final cleansing/polishing? Ditto for etched glass stuff o In order for this box to be functional, the humidity within the box (there is some sort of thingamajig - humidor or something like that that is inserted inside box) should remain constant. So it appears that one should put some type of 'liner' or something around the edges of the opening to seal the humdity in when box is closed. Any suggestions on this...really stumped on this facet. Thanks much. Margaret ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 10:18:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:11:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bc.sympatico.ca!tuka From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Art vs. Craft Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:13:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199805201609.JAA04145@nfs1.bctel.ca> Precedence: bulk > Seems to me you can easily have craft without art (lots of the stuff > I see at "crafts" fairs), but an artist needs craftsmanship to > successfully execute his/her idea, no? A most glorious concept is > wasted if it's shoddily expressed.... Sounds true to me. Isn't "what is art" such a subjective thing that we all have to make our own judgements? It seems to me that "art" like "beauty" is in the eye of the beholder. Shiela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 10:32:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:17:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: re: prices of mosaic stones Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:15:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.81533.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by IMN2GLASS2 >Hey folks,I have been a long time lurker to this list.I have a question...Is anyone here from the northeast and selling stepping stones? I have a opti= on to sell some of mine at a local nursery and I really have no idea how to pri= ce them! I do not know how they are selling in the north because i haven't seen any for sale up here yet. Any assistance is this would be greatly appreciated.Thanks,Judy< Hi Judy. This question is frequently asked, so here's my frequent reply. BTW, I'm in the Philadelphia area. 14" round stepping stone $65.00 14" round custom stepping stone $75.00 14" round table $85.00 14" round custom table $105.00 8" square stepping stone $35.00 8" square custom stepping stone $45.00 I just took an order this morning for a custom 14" round for $75.00. Good luck! Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 11:07:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:10:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bc.sympatico.ca!tuka From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Leaded panel repairs Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:12:53 +0000 Message-ID: <199805201709.KAA28543@nfs1.bctel.ca> Precedence: bulk > Hi everyone - these dremel tools...i've seen them in the Home Depots, etc. - > are they REALLY worthwhile (or a gimmick). What exactly can one use this tool > for when doing SG...Thanks. Margaret I use mine all the time for cutting zinc. Much easier than a hacksaw. I use reinforced cutting disks. Works like a charm. Shiela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 11:41:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:45:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: SusieHUs To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Leaded panel repairs Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:43:29 EDT Message-ID: <1998May20.174329.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-20 12:30:59 EDT, you write: << Hi everyone - these dremel tools...i've seen them in the Home Depots, etc. - are they REALLY worthwhile (or a gimmick). What exactly can one use this tool for when doing SG...Thanks. Margaret >> Hi Margaret, I've had a Dremel (the little, hand-held battery operated one) for quite some time and you wouldn't believe how much I use it! I have drill bits, sanding pads, buffing wheels, grinding wheels and all kinds of bits for it and I use it for my jewelry making, ceramic sculpture building and for general home repairs. I LOVE mine and have decided to go and get the big brother version of it complete with the flexshaft (smaller piece to hold in your hand to work with). It's truly one of those things I have on hand all the time and use almost every day for something! Susie (Who is NOT on Dremel's payroll!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 12:07:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Art or Craft? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805201758.NAA07675@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Again the saga continues. And welcome home Albert!!! How are those Alps? If you want to be real real real technical. What is composed in the design of the stained glass is what makes it art. In formal training there are elements that make a design. Numbers of squares, circles, and so on. The focal point of the work itself and lines and dimension. And a ton of other stuff that I tossed out of my brain when I left school. Personally, I believe what makes glass an art are the elements that go into the work itself. Anyone can make an apple out of stained glass, but not everyone can make the apple appear real or dimensional. (Just an exmaple). So maybe it is not the craft itself that dictates whether it is an art or craft, but the creator. Hmmm....now thats a thought. If an artist creates the work it is art?. If a craftsman creates it , it is a craft. Now we get into who dictates who is an artist. Seems like a full circle on this one. And if you would like to view our artwork. www.waterw.com/~artglass. my best, pj (who wonders if her degree makes it art?) >Hi All: Heard a new slant on whether stained glass is art or craft. If >it is glued it is a craft, else art. We have heard reasons why some sg >might be art (if originally created) or a craft if you use other people's >designs. Think of all the landscapes and seacapes that have copied the >"real thing" and this is often referred to as fine art. > >I like whoever said, Art is of its ownself in the eyes of the beholder. >Stained glass is often the medium through which artists express >themselves. Are we as stained glass artists trying to give ourselves >status by saying stained glass is an art? This then makes the craftperson >lesser. We all agree that stained glass is both art and craftmanship or >skill. It is the combination of the two that makes a finished product. >So, which is more important...to have a beautiful design that never gets >created, or the have wonderful skills that never produce anything. > >I often start my basic stained glass classes by reviewing the evaluation >criteria first. Explaining that each step contributes to the end result. >In a like manner, from the beginning of the design to the stained glass >panel, each aspect of the process contributes to the end result. Which >step is more important? The easier ones? or the more difficult? They are >all necessary if the final product is to measure up to our standards of >art or craftmanship. > >I am even reading about hextal as an adhesive for stained glass. Is this >the glue part that makes sg a craft? As you see, there are still more >questions than there are answers. Somehow I am reminded of the age old >question between lovers, is it love or lust? The usual answer here is if >it lasts, then its love otherwise its lust. > >Just Thinking, >Peggy > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 12:10:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:34:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.apple.com!karens From: Karen Schroeder To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: re: prices of mosaic stones Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:23:57 -0700 Message-ID: <199805201823.LAA43046@scv1.apple.com> Precedence: bulk Judy, I did a home and garden show (my first) in Napa California a couple of weekends ago. Here are my prices: 8" double brick $20 8" round stepping stone $40 8" square stepping stone $50 14" round stepping stone $100 16" hex stepping stone $125 16" square stepping stone $130 I also sold 14" round, 16" hex and 16" square tables for the stones, but I can't recall the prices for any except the 16" square - $70. Sales at the home and garden show were dismal (it rained 2 out of the 3 days). I would have been discouraged but I talked to the other craft vendors, no one was selling anything. Most of the people were there for the "freebies" from the commercial vendors. I have gotten several calls/orders from people who picked up my business card or price sheet at the show so I don't feel that my prices were out of line. I use diamondcrete which is more expensive than concrete or mortar but produces a superior product in much less time. I also create bird baths, hanging plaques, house numbers, name plaques and garden markers using a variety of homemade molds with copper wire embedded in the diamondcrete for hangers or stakes. The prices depend upon the complexity of the design and the size of the piece. I start from a base price for each size and add to it for the letters, numbers and design elements. Karen Schroeder Hummingbird Designs The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better" so I bought a Macintosh. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 12:31:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:36:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Glasgow Rose Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:34:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.103419.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for that tidbit about Margaret Macintosh! We happen to have an = old Scottish window in the shop for resizing that includes a "Glasgow Rose", one of my favorite motifs - (at least I think it's the Glasgow Rose) = pared down to its very essential design elements yet still recognizable, I wish I'd had the genius to create it! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 12:36:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:36:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re:Lost Art? Or Craft? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:34:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.103433.0> Precedence: bulk Great story, Sarah!! And that example = is also one of the reasons folks in this country don't support the arts in a very big way (except involuntarily through their tax donations). I was "raised" by teachers who were, for the most part, very enamoured of Pop Art and I very quickly fell into rebel mode - no assem- blages for me! Or performance art - you wanna be an actor, get into theatre! That, I think, is why I really love stained glass... and why we can make a living at it - it's functional... and decorative. Those two words are big buzzwords in my career as an artist. And, both Michael and I go out of our way to promote beauty, again because I was taught to believe that beauty is not cool.... it's weak and insipid. Today, I do beauty with a vengeance. And, I continue to hone my drawing and painting skills daily, because it makes me better at everything I do including stained glass. I'm learning stuff on my own that I should have learned in college, but wasn't taught because, again, it was not cool! Never = learned to draw from memory, never copied the Masters - I'm doing it all on my own!! And, I paid big bucks for higher education!! I think I've learned as much looking at William Morris wallpaper designs than I learned from my live teachers. When I read the curriculum at the Swiss Stained Glass School that Albert wrote about, I'm just dark green with envy! That's why teaching has become so important to me - so I can teach the things I wasn't taught. And to help create artists who will produce the work that the public can appreciate enough to REALLY support - in the only way that counts- by BUYING it! Okay, Elisabeth, the soap box is yours! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 12:55:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:36:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Lost Art? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:35:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.10352.0> Precedence: bulk I love Charles Rennie Macintosh's = work - I'm getting greener by the second! Come to think of it, I've never been able to locate a really good book on his glass work - did he not do enough glass to warrant a book on the subject? Any info on the subject is appreciated. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 13:01:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:52:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: art/craft Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:46:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.10460.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk My daughter is a "potter" in Atlanta and has wrestled with the art vs craft label for 20 years. No matter that she sculpts, does her own original designs, mixes her own glazes, etc., "pottery" is still known as a craft and she and others consider that label to be a stigma. She is being interviewed once more by a major newspaper in Atlanta, and maybe she might be able to convince more people to think of her "craft" as something more than just throwing pots. In the same vein, I don't believe, with the influx of more inexpensive glass objects being imported to the USA, that it would hurt anyone who considers what they do in SG to be art, to educate more people as to what is involved in a piece of work. Too often I've seen someone design a lamp, sell it for $800 and figure out they made $4/hour after all is said and done, while someone in another country with cheaper labor might be able to construct the same lamp for $400 at $2/hour. Inferior glass and labor notwithstanding, many people would purchase the $400 lamp because it looks to their eye as good as the $800 lamp, so more discrimination on the part of the purchaser and education as to what is good work and what is sloppy work is one answer. However, without the craftsmanship, I don't believe there can be art. Rambling thoughts because my daughter was just here from Atlanta and we were on the same subject of art vs. craft. Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 13:29:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:00:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Dremel Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:59:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.105919.0> Precedence: bulk Also, if you make glass jewelry, you can get diamond drill bits that fit the Dremel and drill very nice = holes for your jump rings to fit thru. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 13:32:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:03:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Copy of: Re: Art vs. Craft Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:02:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.11218.0> Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Michael J. Greer, 105715,1412 TO: INTERNET:tuka@bc.sympatico.ca, INTERNET:tuka@bc.sympatico.ca DATE: 5/20/98 12:40 PM RE: Copy of: Re: Art vs. Craft Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder and art may be very subjective.... but, having studied it for twenty-five years, I'd say there definitely are formal rules and guidelines that apply to everyything. Not that the rules can't be broken, but after you've juried a few shows, you can easily see if someone "knows" the rules and is intentionally (and = successfully) breaking them, or if it's just schlock. Believe me, there is a monumental difference! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 13:54:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:22:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: dremel Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:23:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May20.5239.0> Precedence: bulk Overall a good useful tool for the odd type usage as well as what you bought for if you remember you have one. (dremel, that is) PS, buy it from Home Depot, as I have stock in that company. Walmart or Fred Meyer is also ok as I have stock in those companies as well. Yes this is a plug!!!!!! enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 13:55:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:45:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: dremels Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:07:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.11734.0> Precedence: bulk I don't know what else the dremels (Is that how you spell it?) are used for, but my retailer let me borrow his, with a little stand that holds it (can't think of the word for it) and a bit for drilling holes in glass. It was like a bit for the grinder that fits the dremel. It worked really well. If I remember right, the bits go for about $16. Not too bad, I guess, if you're going to do that sort of thing. Personally, I use a dremel to file my dogs' toe nails after I've cut them. It makes it a lot easier to deal with those black nails. (Apolgies for going off topic, but thought I'd include that.) Jerri _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 14:04:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:45:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Art or Craft? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 03:51:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199805202012.QAA20381@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Again the saga continues. And welcome home Albert!!! > How are those Alps? Terrific. The College of Fine Art & Glass, in Sion, where I was visiting for one day, is ringed 'round with 'em. Fantastic. And thanks for the welcomeback. Albert PS: Art vs. Craft IMHO: if it's disturbing, it's art. You can be "disturbed" in a pleasant way, drawn for example to the personalities and beauty of those who were painted by John Singer Sargeant, or upset in the way you might be by Picasso's "Guernica." If it doesn't do either, it's not art. But also in my very humble opinion, craft and craftsmanship are as noble and ennobling as the fine arts. So there! I'd be proud to call myself a craftsman any day and I think that many, many people who style themselves "artist" aren't. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 14:17:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:03:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: dremel tool Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805202001.NAA15514@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >X-From_: Margaret41@aol.com Wed May 20 08:53:37 1998 >Return-Path: Margaret41@aol.com >From: Margaret41 >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:51:02 EDT >To: cpesonen@bcinternet.net, GLASS@BUNGI.COM >Subject: Re: Leaded panel repairs >Hi Margaret, 101 useages for a dremel!! Handy little tool, but one doesn't have to have one. I like it cause I hate to cut zinc with a hacksaw. Smiles,Cindy >In a message dated 98-05-16 01:48:47 EDT, cpesonen@bcinternet.net writes: > ><< THE PANEL TO LATER CONNECT TO. AND THEN USE A DREMEL TO CUT THRU THE ZINC. >>> > >Hi everyone - these dremel tools...i've seen them in the Home Depots, etc. - >are they REALLY worthwhile (or a gimmick). What exactly can one use this tool >for when doing SG...Thanks. Margaret > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 14:29:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:08:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Painting & other stuff on SG Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805202007.NAA22589@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Margaret, I hadn't had much luck or experience on painting etched glass. Tried some tiny tiny, tiny, stuff (with photo resist) and it was terrible. But it can be done. Smiles, Cindy > > o I want to 'paint' a label on one of the larger cigar bands. Should I >paint this on AFTER construction of the box? Before initial or final >cleansing/polishing? Ditto for etched glass stuff > >Thanks much. Margaret >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 14:34:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:11:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Art or Craft? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:33:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May20.53352.0> Precedence: bulk For me (howard), I feel it is overall a mechanical process....craft (watch the poop hit the whirling blades with this statement, as is PHOTOGRAPHY). The use of color, shading and density allows a bit of art to sneak in. enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 14:55:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:57:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: art/craft/lamps Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:55:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.125522.0> Precedence: bulk Some nice comments, Carol. On the subject of lamps, we don't touch 'em for less than $2,000 and custom patterns only. If that's too high, I'm happy to send customers to several antique stores on the block for China-made Tiffany knock-offs that sell in the low hundreds. Some are pretty good, some are really bad. If the customer knows good lamps, he'll come back to me for something well- made; if not, he'll be perfectly happy = with a piece of junk. And, we're even happier because we hate doing lamps! We're in good company. Tiffany wasn't crazy about them either, no matter what you may have heard. But, he was a = good businessman, had a lot of scrap material that wasn't being used, liked to design, and had a big staff to do his grunge work for him (i.e. building them nightmares!) Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 15:09:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:57:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re:Dremel tool Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:53:14 EDT Message-ID: <1998May20.205314.0> Precedence: bulk >>>>Hi everyone - these dremel tools...i've seen them in the Home Depots, etc. - are they REALLY worthwhile (or a gimmick). What exactly can one use this tool for when doing SG...Thanks. Margaret<<< Why yes, I think they are worth buying. We first got ours because my husband is a wood carver, but I have used it (with a reinforced cutting disc) to cut zinc and rebar. It is great for this!! ZIP and you're done, with neat edges. Plus, you can also get polishing wheels that are great for solder. Not to mention other odd jobs around the house. Go for it! Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 15:31:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:23:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Dinosaur Bob To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: dremel Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:23:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.132337.0> References: <<1998May20.5239.0>> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk Nice to be able to add to the Rubin's retirement fund, but if you want to save money, and belong to BJ's, or the Price Club, they will usually have it as a kit, with the flex shaft, stand and assortment of bits for the price of the basic grinder only at a retail outlet. Sorry Howard Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > Overall a good useful tool for the odd type usage as well as what you bought > for if you remember you have one. (dremel, that is) > > PS, buy it from Home Depot, as I have stock in that company. Walmart or Fred > Meyer is also ok as I have stock in those companies as well. Yes this is a > plug!!!!!! > > enjoy, H > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 15:56:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:24:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Margaret41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Leaded panel repairs Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:21:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.132146.0> References: <<1998May20.15512.0>> Precedence: bulk Margaret41 wrote: > > In a message dated 98-05-16 01:48:47 EDT, cpesonen@bcinternet.net writes: > > << THE PANEL TO LATER CONNECT TO. AND THEN USE A DREMEL TO CUT THRU THE ZINC. > >> > > Hi everyone - these dremel tools...i've seen them in the Home Depots, etc. - > are they REALLY worthwhile (or a gimmick). What exactly can one use this tool > for when doing SG...Thanks. Margaret > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass a dremel is a great tol to have. cut and grind metal. polish things like filligree and solder. get diamond burrs and etch with it. and you'll find household things to do with it as well. i love mine, both of them... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 15:57:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Daniel M. German" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Oscar Wilde Date: Wed, 20 May 98 17:45:33 -0400 Message-ID: <199805202143.RAA21424@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk >Wayne Munro twists the bytes to say: > > Wayne> In keeping with the 'spirit of glass,' Who was (or is) this "Oscar >Wilde" > Wayne> character? Another clever thing from Oscar: "Consistency is the mark of an unimaginative mind." Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 16:14:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:25:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Margaret41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Painting & other stuff on SG Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:24:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.13241.0> References: <<1998May20.16820.0>> Precedence: bulk Margaret41 wrote: > > Hi again - stupid question but it has me a bit puzzled. I'm currently working > on a cigar box for Father's Day. Two questions - > > o I want to 'paint' a label on one of the larger cigar bands. Should I > paint this on AFTER construction of the box? Before initial or final > cleansing/polishing? Ditto for etched glass stuff > > o In order for this box to be functional, the humidity within the box > (there is some sort of thingamajig - humidor or something like that that is > inserted inside box) should remain constant. So it appears that one should put > some type of 'liner' or something around the edges of the opening to seal the > humdity in when box is closed. Any suggestions on this...really stumped on > this facet. > > Thanks much. Margaret > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass let's see, if you use paint do it afterwards. otherwise the paint may burn. etching can be done off, and should becuase you may accidently etch something you don't want to. my guess is that they have kits for that kind of thing in woodworking catalogs. you don't want to just get the lining and seal, but to protect the cigars from the lead in the solder. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 16:14:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Carol Tombro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: art/craft Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:31:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.13315.0> References: <<1998May20.10460.0>> Precedence: bulk Carol Tombro wrote: > > My daughter is a "potter" in Atlanta and has wrestled with the art vs > craft label for 20 years. No matter that she sculpts, does her own > original designs, mixes her own glazes, etc., "pottery" is still known > as a craft and she and others consider that label to be a stigma. She is > being interviewed once more by a major newspaper in Atlanta, and maybe > she might be able to convince more people to think of her "craft" as > something more than just throwing pots. In the same vein, I don't > believe, with the influx of more inexpensive glass objects being > imported to the USA, that it would hurt anyone who considers what they > do in SG to be art, to educate more people as to what is involved in a > piece of work. Too often I've seen someone design a lamp, sell it for > $800 and figure out they made $4/hour after all is said and done, while > someone in another country with cheaper labor might be able to construct > the same lamp for $400 at $2/hour. Inferior glass and labor > notwithstanding, many people would purchase the $400 lamp because it > looks to their eye as good as the $800 lamp, so more discrimination on > the part of the purchaser and education as to what is good work and what > is sloppy work is one answer. However, without the craftsmanship, I > don't believe there can be art. Rambling thoughts because my daughter > was just here from Atlanta and we were on the same subject of art vs. > craft. > > Carol T > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass using this text as an example. maybe a craft is defined as a useful object, like a pot or a jug, a table, or a chair. art is'nt usefull, it hangs in a window, or a wall. like a painting, sculpture, window, etc. it's just attractive, not a necesity. theough a glass lamp is on it's own level. thoug it could be counted more as an art, mainly becuase it takes someone special to create it. unlike a coffee can lamp, which is a craft. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 16:37:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:03:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: iname.com!alpas From: "." To: "Stained Glass list" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Resin materials Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:54:58 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May20.15458.0> Precedence: bulk I use polymer resin materials for stained glass, namelly from RSG in UK and Ueno in Japan . I'd like to 'talk' to people who uses this kind of technology and exchange some experiences and points of view. Luis Sousa Portugal alpas@iname.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 16:54:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:21:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nb.net!sigglass From: Zane To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: This board and replies Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:28:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May20.132825.0> Organization: Signature Glass Company Precedence: bulk This board is set up to forward replies to a message directly to a sender. Over the past several days, I keep getting messages from the same few people who have nothing better to do than try to impress us with their knowledge. If you have something to say to all of us, then address it to all of us in a post - otherwise, send your replies directly to the person the original post pertains to. If you have nothing of substance to say, why not try keeping quiet for a while so this board can return to being a fun place full of ideas shared and questions asked - not a bunch of posts from people so puffed up with the notion that everything they have to say is worthwhile and that they must put in their 2 cents on every single post placed to bungi. Please, give it a rest. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 17:08:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:59:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: MacIntosh Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:56:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199805202257.XAA06164@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Get greener by the second, Dani, There are LOTS of books about MacIntosh over here in little old UK... ;-) That was also one trip I had planned to do with Bungi-people in mind. Just haven't got round to it yet. Will fill you in in greater detail shortly. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Dani wrote: I love Charles Rennie Macintosh's = work - I'm getting greener by the second! Come to think of it, I've never been able to locate a really good book on his glass work - did he not do enough glass to warrant a book on the subject? Any info on the subject is appreciated. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 17:18:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 16:02:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Wed SG chat reminder new section added:) (all color, pics, and html removed) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:00:10 EDT Message-ID: <1998May20.23010.0> Precedence: bulk WED CHAT REMINDER ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NEW GLASS TOUR SECTION ADDED! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Q&A Q. Is anyone here from the northeast and selling stepping stones? I have a option to sell some of mine at a local nursery and I really have no idea how to price them! I do not know how they are selling in the north because i haven't seen any for sale up here yet. Any assistance is this would be greatly appreciated. --- Thanks,Judy A. This question is frequently asked, so here's my frequent reply. BTW, I'm in the Philadelphia area. 14" round stepping stone $65.00 14" round custom stepping stone $75.00 14" round table $85.00 14" round custom table $105.00 8" square stepping stone $35.00 8" square custom stepping stone $45.00 I just took an order this morning for a custom 14" round for $75.00. Good luck! --- Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles A. I did a home and garden show (my first) in Napa California a couple of weekends ago. Here are my prices: 8" double brick $20 8" round stepping stone $40 8" square stepping stone $50 14" round stepping stone $100 16" hex stepping stone $125 16" square stepping stone $130 I also sold 14" round, 16" hex and 16" square tables for the stones, but I can't recall the prices for any except the 16" square - $70. Sales at the home and garden show were dismal (it rained 2 out of the 3 days). I would have been discouraged but I talked to the other craft vendors, no one was selling anything. Most of the people were there for the "freebies" from the commercial vendors. I have gotten several calls/orders from people who picked up my business card or price sheet at the show so I don't feel that my prices were out of line. I use diamondcrete which is more expensive than concrete or mortar but produces a superior product in much less time. I also create bird baths, hanging plaques, house numbers, name plaques and garden markers using a variety of homemade molds with copper wire embedded in the diamondcrete for hangers or stakes. The prices depend upon the complexity of the design and the size of the piece. I start from a base price for each size and add to it for the letters, numbers and design elements. ----- Karen Schroeder Hummingbird Designs For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GLASS TOUR PART 1 The Synagogue of the Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical Center was dedicated on February 6th, 1962, as part of Hadassah's Golden Anniversary celebration. The floors and interior walls are made of Jerusalem Stone, and the Synagogue is illuminated by a hanging lantern and by sunlight which streams through the magnificent Chagall Windows. http://www.md.huji.ac.il/chagall/reuven.html http://www.md.huji.ac.il/chagall/reuven.html http://www.md.huji.ac.il/chagall/benjamin.html http://www.md.huji.ac.il/chagall/dan.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SHOW OFF PICS Are attached to email in some cases... If you are not receiving Show Off pics and care to, e-mail me directly and I will add you to the pic list. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ REQUESTS Send in May Birthdays! What are you working on?.......Send us a pic Please send any SHOW OFF pics in .jpg format ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GLASS SIGHTS http://www.taconic.net/lambstudios/ http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html http://www.texasartglass.com/index.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GLASS PATTERNS Downloading Instructions ---------- To download Spectrum Patterns and other files, and print them from your hard drive, you'll need Adobe ACROBAT® READER installed on your machine. If you don't have it, don't fret! It's free from ADOBE, and easy to download right off the web, complete with installation instructions for whatever computer system you're running. FREE Adobe Acrobat reader http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html Humming Bird Feeder http://www.spectrumglass.com/Library/Patterns/Feeder.pdf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MEETING TIME/PLACE ( To find go to AOL private chat rooms option and type in Stained Glass) WED/SAT Eastern 9pm Central 8pm Mountain 7pm Pacific 6pm EMAIL TO: PuzzyKatz@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 17:42:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 16:28:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Art or Craft? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:27:45 -0700 Message-ID: <199805202327.QAA02664@norm.island.net> Precedence: bulk >So maybe it is not the craft itself that dictates whether it is an art or craft, >but the creator. Hmmm....now thats a thought. > >If an artist creates the work it is art?. If a craftsman creates it , it >is a craft. >Now we get into who dictates who is an artist. Seems like a full circle on >this one. My 2 bits on the arts/crafts debate is along these lines...to me it is the intentionality of the creator that determines whether it is art or craft...did the creator put something of his/her self into the work or simply assemble the pieces for sale? For myself, some of what I do for shows is definitely craft, especially the little stuff, while the custom pieces I create are definitely art. They support each other. I'm a hoarder of quotes and I have one in my book that speaks to this... He who works with his hands is a labourer. He who works with his hands and head is a craftsman. He who works with his hands and his head and his heart is an artist. St. Francis of Assisi ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 17:48:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 17:13:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Zane Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: This board and replies Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:10:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.161034.0> References: <<1998May20.132825.0>> Precedence: bulk Zane wrote: > > This board is set up to forward replies to a message directly to a > sender. > > Over the past several days, I keep getting messages from the same few > people who have nothing better to do than try to impress us with their > knowledge. > > If you have something to say to all of us, then address it to all of us > in a post - otherwise, send your replies directly to the person the > original post pertains to. > > If you have nothing of substance to say, why not try keeping quiet for a > while so this board can return to being a fun place full of ideas shared > and questions asked - not a bunch of posts from people so puffed up with > the notion that everything they have to say is worthwhile and that they > must put in their 2 cents on every single post placed to bungi. Please, > give it a rest. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it is'nt that, it's the way bungi works now. post to RE:ALL and everyone get's a copy with names that are'nt bungi. it makes everything kind of confusing that way. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 18:18:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 17:15:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Resin materials Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805210014.UAA24607@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk ah??? do you mean stained glass overlay???? I would love to chat with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >I use polymer resin materials for stained glass, namelly >from RSG in UK and Ueno in Japan . > >I'd like to 'talk' to people who uses this kind of >technology and exchange some experiences and points of view. > >Luis Sousa >Portugal >alpas@iname.com > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 18:40:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 17:28:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Dremel tool Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:26:53 EDT Message-ID: <1998May21.02653.0> Precedence: bulk Have a friend that uses his dremel when carving bone...He says he wouldnt be caught dead without his.... Well hes about to be Im gona kidnap it for a few days:) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 18:48:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 17:30:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Art or Craft? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:27:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.162735.0> Precedence: bulk I agree 100%, Albert. Fine craftsmanship is as valid as fine art - in this day and age... perhaps even more so. I've = seen some very fine craft that puts certain contemporary fine art to shame. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 18:58:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 17:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:30:01 EDT Message-ID: <1998May21.0301.0> Precedence: bulk On the subject of Tiffany would love to see any history related comments and sights Signed History Buff Puzzy >^..^< Suzan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 19:04:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 17:41:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: adhesives for laminating Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:47:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199805210108.VAA04330@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I tried the search string with both Hxtal and Hextal and got the "search > string not found" Sorry, Lee. I don't know why that didn't work for you. One of the companies is: Conservator's Emporium, 100 Standing Rock Circle, Reno NV 89511. Phone: (702) 852-0404. Fax: (702) 852-3737. E-mail: b.schein@ccni.net A new and important supplier of art restoration and conservation products was founded in July of 1997. With the business motto of "Quality*Service*Teamwork," this company was formed to do business on a personal level with the art world. Conservator's Emporium offers a large diversity of supplies specifically for glass artists. Products such as Hxtal NYL-1, Hxtal Crystal Plus, Paraloid B-72 Glue, A1100-Solution, Dry Colors, and Orasol Dye are just a few of the items available to the specialized world of glass restoration and conservation. For all of your restoration and conservation supplies, please call Conservator's Emporium. The other is: Custom Conservation, 3490 Kimberly Road, Cameron Park CA 95682. Phone: (530) 676-4810. Fax: (530) 676-8629. Supplier of Hxtal and other glues for glass and similar applications, including "Quake Wax," a museum wax for holding fragile materials on shelves during moderate seismic events. It's the only wax used by the Getty and other museums around the world. They also carry solvents for Hxtal and aerosol dyes used to color Hxtal. Special orders for good customers. Same- or next-day shipping. Hope that's helpful. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 19:21:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:34:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: chescom.net!don From: Don McDonald To: Zane Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: This board and replies Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:31:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May20.153124.0> References: <<1998May20.132825.0>> Precedence: bulk For well over the past year I have enjoyed the varied questions and answers that have been shared on this list. Prior to the Flame Throwing War Over Editing Protocols, a question or comment was posed and the responses were posted to the entire group. The system was changed after the above mentioned war, and while members of the list got used to how to reply to the whole group, a lot of interesting questions were asked publicly and the responses were given privately. Some of these questions I would never have thought to ask, but upon hearing them, was interested in the reply. This forced me (and everyone else who doesn't know everything) to have to send a message to the question asker to forward the responses that s/he received, and little information ever came to my mailbox from that method. There was no way of knowing who had the answer. Techniques and tips were not conveyed to me. There have been those routine responders that I have grown tired of reading because of either their attitude, grammar skills, punctuation, capitalization, or preference to type of glass work they do. Yet, I have never filtered out any of these people's responses because they sometimes say something that I find to be a gem. Additionally, when I have dropped these "annoying" people a private note, something of a friendship developed, almost without fail. I had a new appreciation for them and their practice of glass (craft or art, hobby or pro). I have taught various things over the course of my professional life. I have never had a student that couldn't also teach me something in return, sometimes even in the field where I am the instructor. I don't often think my glass work is in the league with the people on this list. I have only been doing it for 23 years. I think of myself as a hobbyist, but when I run my bank statements and find that glass is about 60% of my income, or pay the state the taxes, or take the hand of a student and guide a cut, I realize that I may have some small bit of information to offer occasionally. I receive more than I give on this list for certain. But I am now leery of offering a response because someone may not like it. I'm afraid to ask a question because it may have been asked before...like the last time I asked and had this pointed out. One thing I have learned on this list is that there is a key marked delete on the PC keyboard as well as an icon on the tool bar or a command in the list that will whisk the message you don't want right off your screen. I have never used it but I am sure it works. I have every message that I received while on this list filed away. It saddens me to see people try to stop others from contributing. You never know when that newbie might have discovered something you haven't thought of. You never know when that glass cheerleader will point you to a web site overflowing with information you've been looking for. You don't know when that retailer is going to tell you about a product at incredible savings or when that director is going to let you know of an organization that can further your career. You just don't know when someone might speak to your condition. Zane wrote: > > This board is set up to forward replies to a message directly to a > sender. > > Over the past several days, I keep getting messages from the same few > people who have nothing better to do than try to impress us with their > knowledge. > > If you have something to say to all of us, then address it to all of us > in a post - otherwise, send your replies directly to the person the > original post pertains to. > > If you have nothing of substance to say, why not try keeping quiet for a > while so this board can return to being a fun place full of ideas shared > and questions asked - not a bunch of posts from people so puffed up with > the notion that everything they have to say is worthwhile and that they > must put in their 2 cents on every single post placed to bungi. Please, > give it a rest. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 20:20:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 19:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: This board and replies Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:13:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.181338.0> Precedence: bulk Gee, I wonder who Zane is talking about? Could you = be more specific? Best regards, Dani Greer (who's glad there's finally some interesting conversation on bungi again!) http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 20:51:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:08:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: ARCHIVES Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:13:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1998May20.31344.0> Precedence: bulk I am a new bungi user. I am sorry to say, I also did not look in the archives before asking a question. I went to current file first and then proceeded backwards in 1998. As someone who would enjoy reading through this wealth of information, I find a few things annoying about the archives. Do we have to have all that wasted header on each document, the date and time is good enough for me. The footer information is wasted space too. I was going to take Dan's advice & thought I would just print it out for reading at work tomorrow, until I saw that it was 343 pages long....one file!!! I don't know if I want to spend the ink and paper printing it out !! Especially when 2/3 'rds is header/footer junk. I don't think we need to sort it...although that is great, can't we just clean it up? I think a lot of it could be simply be done with a program to search for key words in the header/footer and then replace with nothing. Then delete all blank lines. Someone else also volunteered to help with this project, I volunteer too. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 21:17:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 19:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nj1.aae.com!mercedes From: Barb/Joe W To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Snipping articles when replying Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:50:30 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980520225030.0069fa44@nj1.aae.com> Precedence: bulk Comments from a lurking stained glass novice who is learning alot from this group. Someone in rec.crafts.glass made a salient comment today about this group. The comment was that virtually no one in bungi the lengthy note they are replying to down to the pertinent phrase or sentence and on top of that they add their comments at the end. If we use accurate subject lines, every one should be able to follow the thread. How about we try a verbal diet by snipping and putting responses at the beginning of the message. If we're successful Elizabeth will probably be able to afford a few extra mackeral for Toby. PS. Wasn't it Oscar Wilde who said, when ask to declare valuables going through customs, " I have nothing to declare but my genius". Back to lurking and learning. Joe ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 21:22:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 19:52:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:50:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.185047.0> Precedence: bulk When I first joined bungi, gads, about 1 1/2 years ago (could it be that long?), the group was in the = midst of a very lively discussion = about Tiffany - I made copies of = all the commentaries, it was so interesting. I'm sure that stuff must be in the archives - and, I wouldn't mind resurrecting the discussion. I'd also like to get much, much more information on John LaFarge. I still haven't put together the slide show and need to do that before Fall. And, I like interesting lectures, you know, with all the "dirt" about a = character to spice up the dry facts! Maybe we could pose a few questions and get responses from the group. Like: 1. What was Tiffany's greatest contribution to stained glass? To art? 2. What was his worst fiasco? 3. What's the biggest lie you ever heard = about Tiffany? 4. What's the best book you ever read about him? 5. What else do you want to know about Tiffany but were afraid to ask? ;-) Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 21:42:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:19:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: This board and replies Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:18:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May20.191851.0> Precedence: bulk Very well said, Don. I wish I could file all the bungi mail on my poor old computer, but alas, it doesn't have enough memory! However, I have = a box of hard copies six inches deep that will someday go into ring binders by category. Everything I know about glass, I learned from my husband - he's been in the business for 23 years- and Both of us have learned a few = things from bungi! I've even found the name of a firm in Germany that manufactures the long sought-after lead mill (thanks to our friend, Albert)! = There is an exchange of information on bungi that is invaluable and that I simply cannot easily acquire any- where else.... except perhaps a = similar forum. That is the beauty of this technology. On the down side, you also meet a few real jerks. So what, that's life. I usually ignore 'em in real life, too. If they don't get = attention, they tend to go away. And, face it, sometimes people have = a lousy day and take it out on just anyone. This forum is not going to entertain everyone all the time - I personally enjoy the more academic discussions that are going on right now. Other folks I'm sure are ho- humming through this thread! I think you're correct to read every e-mail, Don - you never know where the buried treasure lies unless you turn over every stone! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios (who = really MUST get back into the studio to work on the July show- haven't produced much of = anything decent this week and time's slipping by! Panic!!) = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 21:52:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:44:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Input ... Input ... Input Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:42:41 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May20.174241.0> Precedence: bulk Recently I've noticed quite a few new names and with some great insight and input into the group. What I seemed to have missed is the bios of the these artist. To all of you who haven't responded please email me your bios. To the newer member (of all skills) we would really like to learn more about you. I've have been getting nothing but positive comments on the bios and independent friendships have developed. Thanks in Advance Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 22:05:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:16:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp08.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Second installment. The colour of light. Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:14:57 -0400 Message-ID: <199805210414.AAA00259@ppp08.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Hi everybody, I'd like to hear your comments on how "readable" this document is and how it can be improved. Let's say this is "beta version".=20 Enjoy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --The Colour of Light Most stained-glass artists know that the type of light that illuminates the glass affects its apparent colours. In other words, the same glass will look different depending whether we see it under Sun, fluorescent or tungsten (incandescent) light. Although our eyes barely noticed it --their power of adaptation is superb--, each of these sources produces light of very different characteristics. Even sunlight has variations. For instance, you are probably used to see red afternoons which dramatically contrast with the colour of the light in the middle of the day. Light is categorized by its temperature. The sunlight, for example, has a temperature of 5500 degrees K (Kelvin); the common tungsten house lamps are 2800 K, but there are also photographic bulbs that produce 3200 and 3400 K. The temperature of a source dictates, roughly, its component colours. For instance, tungsten light has far less blue than the other primary colours. Fluorescent light lacks magenta. Sunlight has the whole spectrum of colours --albeit the atmosphere plays a role in determining the actual spectrum of the light that reaches us and explains why the light is more blue in the day and more red at sunset. Film is extremely sensitive to the temperature of light. As a consequence, each film is calibrated for a certain temperature. This calibration is known the "color balance" of the film. There are two basic types of color-balanced film: tungsten and daylight. Virtually all amateur negative film is color-balanced for daylight --flash light has almost the same temperature as daylight. If you use a daylight colour-balanced film and then take a photograph of a white object, the object will appear white if shot under daylight or flash; it will appear green if shot under fluorescent and it will appear amber if shot under tungsten --assuming, of course, proper exposure. If you take a white object with tungsten film under daylight it will appear blue. If you are taking negatives, a good laboratory should be able to correct for this divergence. It is always good idea to notify your lab in advance that the photos you took were shot indoors under fluorescent or incandescent light if that was the case. That way the lab can compensate during the printing stage. This flexibility explains why almost all negative films are daylight colour-balanced. Slides are a different story. Since there is no intermediary step, "what you shoot is what you get". Therefore, it is critical that you use the proper film for the proper occasion. Most slide films, again, are balanced for daylight; but there are some exceptions, Fuji and Kodak, for example, produce tungsten-balanced films. Tungsten-balanced film is usually more expensive than daylight-balanced, more difficult to find and available in very few types and speeds. This is why photographers prefer to use filters to compensate for the variation in the light source. Filters will be described further below. In addition, tungsten light varies slightly from source to source: studio lights --available in photo stores-- are 3200 K, while 100W bulbs are close to 2900; these differences, however, are minor. By now, you might be wondering whether there is film balanced for fluorescent lights. The answer is no. There are several reasons: there exist different types of fluorescent lights with very diverse temperatures, and they are not used in photographic applications as much as incandescent are (for example, incandescent light is normally used to make copies of work, internegatives or new slides). How does all this affect photos of stained-glass? First of all, if you use daylight film, it is better to shoot it outdoors with sunlight. If you can, direct the camera towards the north (towards the south if you'rein the souther hemisphere). If you cannot, then use a filter appropriate for the job. It is not uncommon that a panel is lit with more than one type of light. If necessary, wait for the night, turn off the fluorescent and use extra incandescent lamps if necessary to achieve the desired effect. If you have one or more camera flashes and you can set them away from your camera they also a good source of light. But remember, do not use the flash mounted in the camera: the reflection from the glass will ruin your photo. There will be cases in which you have to shoot at the current light, in that case, decide which light appears to be the strongest and filter for it. Sometimes, if exact colour rendering is not critical, the colour cast produced by the offending light can be an added touch to the overall photograph. The following is a list of the most common filters and their use. The first column is the name of the filter, the second its colour and the third is its intended use. The most commonly used filters are 80A and FL-W. %---------------------------------------------------------------------- 80A blue color correction for daylight film (5500) under 3200K lamps 80B blue color correction for daylight film (5500) under 3400K lamps 80C blue color cor. for daylight film (5500) under 3800K lamps 81 amber substracts 100K from source 81A amber substracts 200K from source 81B amber substracts 300K from source 81C amber substracts 400K from source 81D amber substracts 500K from source 81EF amber substracts 650K from source. 82 blue adds +100K 82A blue adds +200K 82B blue adds +300K 82C blue adds +400K (removes reddish cast in early morning or late af= ternoon) 85 orange color correction for 3400K tungsten film in daylight (5500= K) 85B orange color correction for 3200K tungsten film in daylight (5500K= ) 85C amber converts 5500K (daylight) to 3800K lighting FL-day purple corrects "daylight" fluorescent light for daylight film FL-W purple corrects "white" fluorescent light for daylight film %---------------------------------------------------------------------- This document is (C) Copyright 1998 Daniel M. Germ=E1n. This text, in who= le or in part, may not be sold in any medium, including, but not limited to electronic, CD-ROM, or published in print, without the explicit, written permission of Daniel M. Germ=E1n. This FAQ can be reproduced and distributed electronically or in hardcopy as long as this is done for free and it is kept intact. If you have any comments about this document, please direct them to dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Daniel M. German "The energy of the world is constant. Rudolf Clausius -> Its entropy tends to a maximum." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca =20 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 22:52:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 22:08:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp08.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 01:07:08 -0400 Message-ID: <199805210507.BAA00283@ppp08.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998May20.185047.0>> Precedence: bulk Michael J Greer twists the bytes to say: Michael> 1. What was Tiffany's greatest contribution Michael> to stained glass? To art? I think that without doubt the answer is copper foil. He had other contributions, such as diverse types of glass and the lamps of course --even though they were not his favorite. He changed the way stained glass could be made. To art, this is a tough one. Certainly he made very good windows, and unique lamps --copied over and over again. I'd say that his contributions is the use of glass to convey what used to be done with paint in the past and to put glass where it had never been before. Michael> 5. What else do you want to know about Michael> Tiffany but were afraid to ask? He designed a magnificent huge screen for the stage of the theater of the "Museo de Bellas Artes", in M=E9xico City. It is supposed to have 1,000,000 pieces and measure more than 15 meters in length and can be raised. The original design was by Dr. Atl --a Mexican artist-- modified by Tiffany for stained glass. It should weight tons. I have not been able to find details on this work: where was it made, how much it cost, details on how it was assembled, how was the commission awarded... -- Daniel M. German "It is useless to punish a man unless he knows why he is punished... Punishment must be unusual R. Heinlein -> or it serves no purpose." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca =20 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 20 23:16:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 20 May 1998 21:49:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nb.net!sigglass From: Zane Cimera To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: My previous post re: replying to everything Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:53:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May20.195355.0> Precedence: bulk I re-read my post and it was not meant to sound so much like I have a "crappy attitude" as I am sure it came across. If you permit, here is an example of what I am trying to get across: We have had lively discussions about different types of flux (including lemon juice, etc.) and it was very informative. We also have found out about the differences in solder and the chemical compositions, as well as the chemical compositions of flux. We have talked about our favorite tools. These are just a few examples of the wonderful discussions we have had over the past 6 months. I value input from Mike Savad and Gary at Dodge Studios because they always know things I don't and give me great insight. Others offer up their opinion on a rare occasion, and I find they have great knowledge on that particular subject. So they share when they see they have something to offer. But if someone posts that they tried lemon juice as flux, why post a message in reply that says "Lemon juice, huh? Will have to try it" to all bungians instead of just sending it directly to the person who posted it? I don't need to read posts such as "Carlotta, you are absolutely fabulous" since it is directed a certain individual and provides nothing to the rest of us. In short, just send your comments to the appropriate persons, not everyone, so you don't clog up all of our mailboxes. Yes, I know what a delete button is, but I find that after reading 10 comments about "Romeo, just wanted to say how beautiful your work is" that I end up deleting all of the bungi messages and I may have missed out on some important information, but who wants to wade through 100 messages from bungi that are all personal posts that give no cause to join the replies. Why not keep your personal posts personal and the business of glass separate? I would love to play question and answer and I don't mind if we repeat ourselves in our conversations, so I don't mind if a newbie wants to post the same question to us again - maybe new information will be gleaned. I also appreciate when someone shares a link to a particularly nice website so we can all go visit it. I would just like to stop receiving personal posts and have us all start using bungi for what I thought was it's intended purpose - to share our love of glass (i.e., our knowledge and experiences) with one another. All above names/examples are made up and I sincerely apologize to those who may have taken offense with my last post. Thank you. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 06:25:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: art/craft Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:35:05 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980521083505.006aa240@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> References: <<1998May20.10460.0>> Precedence: bulk Good Morning This art v. crafts issue can go on and on and on.... the answer is in "attitude". If one considers his work craft, so be it. The same for art, or junk for that matter. When artists consider craftsmen with the same respect and appreciation that they bestow upon art, and their own work, then they will see no harm done when their work is seen as craft. To malign a process to elevate one's own standing is simply arrogant. Good craftsmanship can still lead to bad art. Good art must have good craftsmanship regardless of the medium.... me thinks. Barbara However, without the craftsmanship, I >> don't believe there can be art. Rambling thoughts because my daughter >> was just here from Atlanta and we were on the same subject of art vs. >> craft. >> >> Carol T >> >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >using this text as an example. maybe a craft is defined as a useful >object, like a pot or a jug, a table, or a chair. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 07:55:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 06:48:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: "Michael J. Greer" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:46:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May21.54610.0> References: <<1998May20.185047.0>> Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer wrote: > > When I first joined bungi, gads, > about 1 1/2 years ago (could it be > that long?), the group was in the = > > midst of a very lively discussion = > > about Tiffany - I made copies of = > > all the commentaries, it was so > interesting. I'm sure that stuff must > be in the archives - and, I wouldn't mind > resurrecting the discussion. I'd > also like to get much, much more > information on John LaFarge. I > still haven't put together the slide > show and need to do that before Fall. > And, I like interesting lectures, you > know, with all the "dirt" about a = > > character to spice up the dry facts! > Maybe we could pose a few questions > and get responses from the group. > Like: > > 1. What was Tiffany's greatest contribution > to stained glass? To art? > 2. What was his worst fiasco? > 3. What's the biggest lie you ever heard = > > about Tiffany? > 4. What's the best book you ever read > about him? > 5. What else do you want to know about > Tiffany but were afraid to ask? > > ;-) > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass 1. there are 2 things that he contributed, copper foil. and intresting glass. 2. fiasco: when he made the glass guys burn his recipes, because he was to much of a snob. no one could enjoy his types of glass when he was dead. 3. lie, i guess it's that he built all the windows and lamps himself. for the longest time i did'nt know he had an entire glass business let alone and entire interior dectorator company. 4. i don't know if there is any one book. i don't care much for his paintings or jewelry. The Masterworks of Tiffany is prety cool, beased just on glass. another Duncan book i think. 5. don't have one. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 08:08:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 06:27:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Glasgow Rose Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:28:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May21.52846.0> Precedence: bulk Okay, I'll admit it. I'm a novice not familiar with the Glasgow Rose. = Could someone point me in a direction to view this design? I have = searched the web but have been unable to locate one. Thanks, Linda Michael Greer said: (at least I think it's the Glasgow Rose) =3D pared down to its very essential design elements yet still recognizable, I wish I'd had the genius to create it! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 08:29:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 07:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: art/craft Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:57:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May21.55759.0> References: <<3.0.2.32.19980521083505.006aa240@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>> Precedence: bulk Barbara wrote: > > Good Morning > This art v. crafts issue can go on and on and on.... the answer is in > "attitude". If one considers his work craft, so be it. The same for art, > or junk for that matter. > When artists consider craftsmen with the same respect and appreciation > that they bestow upon art, and their own work, then they will see no harm > done when their work is seen as craft. > To malign a process to elevate one's own standing is simply arrogant. > Good craftsmanship can still lead to bad art. Good art must have good > craftsmanship regardless of the medium.... me thinks. > > Barbara > > > However, without the craftsmanship, I > >> don't believe there can be art. Rambling thoughts because my daughter > >> was just here from Atlanta and we were on the same subject of art vs. > >> craft. > >> > >> Carol T > >> > >> ---- > >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > >using this text as an example. maybe a craft is defined as a useful > >object, like a pot or a jug, a table, or a chair. > > > another defintion i thought of is this: a craft is where you apply inginuity to something. creating something that need perhaps a mechanical abilty. an art is where you express feelings in your medium. the art does'nt have to make sense. the stained glass art is craft, but it's also a form of art. maybe art is a specialized thing something not anyone can do. if someone knows how to work with wood they can build a chair. which could be considered a craft. but not everyone can paint or to SG, so it could be considered art. maybe we all have to wear a bureau like french painters do. and maybe then other people will think of this as an art form (like a mono lisa). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 08:31:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 07:46:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 07:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805211444.HAA23899@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > > >Michael J Greer twists the bytes to say: > > Michael> 1. What was Tiffany's greatest contribution > Michael> to stained glass? To art? > I would have to say the creatation of the "Favrile" glass (opalescent). He's accomplishments were many- painting glass bronzes enamels ceramics jewelry photography architecture textile designs interior decorating Smiles,Cindy > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 08:32:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 07:40:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4 From: Beveler 4 To: Glass@Bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Dremel tools Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:37:32 EDT Message-ID: <1998May21.143732.0> Precedence: bulk I use my dremel tools all of the time for repair work . I have both types a battery type for repairs away from the shop and the plug in type for in house repairs . The battery operated one is not quite as powerful but it still gets the job done. I have also used mine for numerous other projects around the house repairs to school projects for the kids, wouldn't be without one.I have worn one out sent it back to Dremel and they repaired it with a new motor for a small fee and were very prompt.They are great to clean up old joints that need to be soldered. However you must use them with a gentle touch. Beveler4(Stan) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 09:31:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 09:17:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:14:54 EDT Message-ID: <1998May21.161454.0> Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer asked: > 2. What was his worst fiasco? >From the pictures I've seen of it, his (and his company's) redecorating of the White House has to be a contender in the "artistic" department .... although I do wish that the *next* round of redecorators had salvaged the big East Room screen (I'm pretty sure it was demolished, since it was considered "outmoded") and found a clean, uncluttered place (maybe donate it to the Smithsonian?) to reinstall it so that it could be viewed on its own merits and not as something to get lost in a welter of clashing patterns... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 10:08:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 09:47:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Mcintosh, Tiffany, Art Nouveau Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:38:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May21.8389.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk I am new to this list and do not know if all of you know of these sites regarding Mcintosh, Tiffany, and many others. Just in case, I found these to be very informative and beautifully done. http:www.iser.net/~dorcasbartnouv.htm http://www.sdv.fr/creamuse/mackin.html http://www.iser.net/~dorcasb/artcraft/htm Hope these sites might be interesting to anyone researching McIntosh, Tiffany and others of that genre'. Carol T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 10:29:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 09:48:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz From: Elaine To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: This board and replies Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:49:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May21.54911.0> References: <<1998May20.153124.0>> Precedence: bulk Thank you, Elaine Don McDonald wrote: > > For well over the past year I have enjoyed the varied questions and > answers that have been shared on this list. Prior to the Flame > Throwing War Over Editing Protocols, a question or comment was posed > and the responses were posted to the entire group. The system was > changed after the above mentioned war, and while members of the list got > used to how to reply to the whole group, a lot of interesting questions > were asked publicly and the responses were given privately. Some of > these questions I would never have thought to ask, but upon hearing > them, was interested in the reply. This forced me (and everyone else > who doesn't know everything) to have to send a message to the question > asker to forward the responses that s/he received, and little > information ever came to my mailbox from that method. There was no way > of knowing who had the answer. Techniques and tips were not conveyed to > me. > > There have been those routine responders that I have grown tired of > reading because of either their attitude, grammar skills, punctuation, > capitalization, or preference to type of glass work they do. Yet, I have > never filtered out any of these people's responses because they > sometimes say something that I find to be a gem. Additionally, when I > have dropped these "annoying" people a private note, something of a > friendship developed, almost without fail. I had a new appreciation for > them and their practice of glass (craft or art, hobby or pro). > > I have taught various things over the course of my professional life. I > have never had a student that couldn't also teach me something in > return, sometimes even in the field where I am the instructor. > > I don't often think my glass work is in the league with the people on > this list. I have only been doing it for 23 years. I think of myself > as a hobbyist, but when I run my bank statements and find that glass is > about 60% of my income, or pay the state the taxes, or take the hand of > a student and guide a cut, I realize that I may have some small bit of > information to offer occasionally. I receive more than I give on this > list for certain. But I am now leery of offering a response because > someone may not like it. I'm afraid to ask a question because it may > have been asked before...like the last time I asked and had this pointed > out. > > One thing I have learned on this list is that there is a key marked > delete on the PC keyboard as well as an icon on the tool bar or a > command in the list that will whisk the message you don't want right off > your screen. I have never used it but I am sure it works. I have every > message that I received while on this list filed away. > > It saddens me to see people try to stop others from contributing. You > never know when that newbie might have discovered something you haven't > thought of. You never know when that glass cheerleader will point you > to a web site overflowing with information you've been looking for. You > don't know when that retailer is going to tell you about a product at > incredible savings or when that director is going to let you know of an > organization that can further your career. You just don't know when > someone might speak to your condition. > > Zane wrote: > > > > This board is set up to forward replies to a message directly to a > > sender. > > > > Over the past several days, I keep getting messages from the same few > > people who have nothing better to do than try to impress us with their > > knowledge. > > > > If you have something to say to all of us, then address it to all of us > > in a post - otherwise, send your replies directly to the person the > > original post pertains to. > > > > If you have nothing of substance to say, why not try keeping quiet for a > > while so this board can return to being a fun place full of ideas shared > > and questions asked - not a bunch of posts from people so puffed up with > > the notion that everything they have to say is worthwhile and that they > > must put in their 2 cents on every single post placed to bungi. Please, > > give it a rest. > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 10:57:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:23:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:28:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199805211750.NAA12005@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I would have to say the creatation of the "Favrile" glass (opalescent). Well, actually it was John La Farge who innovated the first use of opalescent glass in stained glass windows, but he was just an artist and not a rich businessman, so Tiffany out-marketed him. There's also the fact that La Farge died and Tiffany out-lived him by thirty years, making it much easier for him to establish himself as the "inventor" of opalescent glass (which he called "Favrile" as a trade name), even though opalescent glass had been used for a long time in the manufacture of cosmetic containers prior to either Tiffany's or La Farge's use of it. Tiffany and La Farge sued each other over the claims to the "invention," but it was never settled. When Tiffany wrote his autobiography, he "fudged" the date on his earliest use of opalescent glass, saying he'd used it three years earlier than La Farge, who by that time was dead. But Tiffany wasn't being truthful; newspaper stories of the time confirm that he was telling tales. Tiffany's popularity eventually faded, his studio folded and his stained glass windows and lamps were often -- very often -- thrown onto trash heaps or otherwise discarded. About 25-30 years ago, their popularity began to come back, though, just like the corderoy pants I used to wear in the 60s fell out of favor, were worn by nobody, and now are popular again. There's nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes, who also noted that "all is vanity"). I still think La Farge is the better artist. He was a lousy businessman, though. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 10:58:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:26:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:32:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199805211753.NAA12610@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > reinstall it so that it could be viewed on its own merits and not as something > to get lost in a welter of clashing patterns... But that was the fashion at the time: their motto might have been "nothing succeeds like excess." It's difficult to keep from imposing our present-day values on design modes of the past, I know, but that's why it's so interesting to read about what life was like generally back then, what other disciplines' points of view were and how it all fit together in society and popular culture of the time. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 11:59:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 11:49:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany/LaFarge Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:49:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May21.104911.0> Precedence: bulk LaFarge was certainly a better = artist at figurative work than = Tiffany. Some of the figures in Tiffany's large church commissions are absolutely dismal in proportions! But, Tiffany was a good landscape painter and in that genre, it's a toss- up if LaFarge was better. (IMPO)! The one aspect of Tiffany's work = that drives me absolutely insane is his habit of totally disregarding the architectural elements of the space he was working in. Such beautiful stone tracery and he refused to use it to advantage in his designs! It = seems to me that LaFarge was much more sensitive to the architectural = environment and was better at de- signing windows for the space. I will say this about Tiffany - he hired some very good artists and designers at the firm! And some very lousy craftsmen, too. ;-) Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 13:00:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ou.edu!dfdavis From: "Davis, Denise F" To: 'Linda Campbell' , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: Glasgow Rose Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:43:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May21.84351.0> Precedence: bulk During the last year or so, Glass Patterns Quarterly had a small panel lampshade pattern with the Glasgow Rose design. Very striking in its simplicity. I will try to post the exact issue when I can get to my copies. Denise Davis > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Campbell [SMTP:lcbell@memach.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 8:29 AM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: RE: Glasgow Rose > > Okay, I'll admit it. I'm a novice not familiar with the Glasgow Rose. > = > Could someone point me in a direction to view this design? I have = > searched the web but have been unable to locate one. Thanks, > > Linda > > Michael Greer said: > > (at least I think it's the Glasgow Rose) =3D > > pared down to its very essential > design elements yet still recognizable, > I wish I'd had the genius to create it! > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 13:31:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 13:17:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Where's the Glasgow Rose? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 04:23:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199805212045.QAA23591@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk Carol Tombro's second link had it: The Glasgow Rose. I was going to scan my copy of the photo this evening and put it up, but it turns out that someone in France has already violated the copyright. Phew! Go to http://www.sdv.fr/creamuse/mackin.html The caption translates from the French approximately as "May 1996: CHARLES RENNIE MACKINTOSH Realized on behalf of the Museums of Glasgow, the great retrospective in homage to Charles Rennie Mackintosh will make it possible to honour one with the largest architects and designers of the century. The exposure will be then presented in New York (MOMA), Los Angeles (Museum of Modern art) and Chicago (Art Institute)." Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 13:59:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 13:40:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:ARCHIVES Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:38:54 -0400 Message-ID: <199805212038.QAA00294@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998May20.31344.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Norman, hi everybody, Norman> I am a new bungi user. I am sorry to say, I also did not look in the Norman> archives before asking a question. I went to current file first and then Norman> proceeded backwards in 1998. As someone who would enjoy reading through Norman> this wealth of information, I find a few things annoying about the archives. Norman> Do we have to have all that wasted header on each document, the date and Norman> time is good enough for me. The footer information is wasted space too. I Norman> was going to take Dan's advice & thought I would just print it out for Norman> reading at work tomorrow, until I saw that it was 343 pages long....one Norman> file!!! I don't know if I want to spend the ink and paper printing it out Norman> !! Especially when 2/3 'rds is header/footer junk. I don't think we need Norman> to sort it...although that is great, can't we just clean it up? I think a Norman> lot of it could be simply be done with a program to search for key words in Norman> the header/footer and then replace with nothing. Then delete all blank Norman> lines. Someone else also volunteered to help with this project, I volunteer Norman> too. Well... I have good news for you Norman and some bad news. The good news is that I had some minutes to kill and I had cleaned all the files from most headers and footers. The gain was 25% (not 2/3 as you claimed :) I have submitted them to Glenna for consideration. The bad news is that you have volunteer... now we have to find something for you to do :) I have been thinking how to make the archives easier to use. THat is a tough question. If we just were a little more careful when we choose the subject, that will dramatically improve the odds of somebody finding the information (at least, we can try to do something automatic about it). Any thoughts on how the archives can improve? dmg -- Daniel M. German "There is no national science as there is no national multiplication table; Anton Chekov -> what is national is no longer science." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 14:35:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:19:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Where's the Glasgow Rose? Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:10:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May21.131049.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk Glad you found the site. There is a book that was I believed published recently, "Charels Rennie Mackintosh" by Charlotte and Peter Fiell. Published by Taschen. I believe it is an English publisher. Many illustrations of major Mackintosh projects and a good general book of watercolours and textile designs. C. Tombro ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 15:05:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 14:41:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cyberstreet.com!nasmacd From: nasmacd@cyberstreet.com (Nasrene MacDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: HELP! Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:40:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May21.13403.0> Precedence: bulk Hello out there! I'm designing and will be making several foiled panels to be mounted in existing wood frames and to be viewed from both sides, INSIDE a restaurant (between bar and dining area). These panels will be about 46" wide by 48" high. What can you tell me about using INTERNAL copper-plated steel strips in these panels (external bar reinforcements are of course out of the question)? I also need advice about aluminum framing for the panels. Finally, any advice about designing and executing aquatic scenes of various kinds (salmon in streams, coral reefs with fish, etc.) would be appreciated. Know of any books or websites that might help? Thanks for your help, including any other technical tips about foil types etc.! I'm pretty ignorant! Larry Stout ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 15:30:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 15:07:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: dremel tool Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:06:06 EDT Message-ID: <1998May21.2266.0> Precedence: bulk I'm interested in the dremel but the one with the snake like ?arm? Who has one and what do you think of it compared to say a sears brand with the same ?arm? and what about the foot peddle that comes with some and others you have to get as an accessory deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 16:01:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 15:32:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nj1.aae.com!mercedes From: Barb/Joe W To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Humblest Apologies Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:31:32 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980521183132.006a8ef4@nj1.aae.com> Precedence: bulk 1. Sorry if I inadvertantly opened up old sores re: my snipping contents post. 2. Where did bungi get its name? 3. Anyone know of lead glass techniques classes in eastern Pa. or Central NJ? Thanks .. Enjoy Memorial Day Weekend! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 16:31:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 15:59:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: DMR74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: dremel tool Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:56:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May21.145650.0> References: <<1998May21.2266.0>> Precedence: bulk DMR74 wrote: > > I'm interested in the dremel but the one with the snake like ?arm? Who has > one and what do you think of it compared to say a sears brand with the same > ?arm? > and what about the foot peddle that comes with some and others you have to get > as an accessory > deb > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the closest hing that i can think of is Foredom, the original kaer of that kind of tool. craftsman would probably also have something like that. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 17:00:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 15:59:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: "Daniel M. German" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ARCHIVES Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:53:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May21.145314.0> References: <<199805212038.QAA00294@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Daniel, The ArtMetal group has a search-able index by keyword (example-'soldering', 'casting' 'mold-making' and so forth. I have no Idea how Enrique (the list owner, and ArtMetal Web site guru) has done this. And since I have no idea how Dave and Glenna's server works, don't know if it can be done, in its existing format. I just know it is somehow possible. I've been so busy until lately have missed reading a lot of messages. Did you not set up a site for list members to post photos of their works? Some of us that are IGGA members get a web site for a few pictures if we just get around to sending them to Albert. And some time ago I thought Glenna had something about a place on bungi.com to post pictures, but could be mistaken. I'll rummage around the ArtMetal site to see if there is a clue there on making a search able index, or word search. Enrique may be willing to share how it was done. I am just now having time to compose a home site for the 5 meg that Home.com gives subscribers for home web pages. Since they are hosted on their servers, the info goes out by cable modem and is a lot faster in transmission. It runs into a bottleneck at users telephone modems, and some of the switching nodes. (If I described this wrong, its cause I'm not just certain of how it works.) Anyway, Let us know, or please repeat the information if I missed it. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations <> Daniel M. German wrote: > > Hi Norman, hi everybody,> > Well... I have good news for you Norman and some bad news. The good > news is that I had some minutes to kill and I had cleaned all the > files from most headers and footers. The gain was 25% (not 2/3 as > you claimed :) I have submitted them to Glenna for consideration. > > The bad news is that you have volunteer... now we have to find > something for you to do :) > > I have been thinking how to make the archives easier to use. THat is a > tough question. If we just were a little more careful when we choose > the subject, that will dramatically improve the odds of somebody > finding the information (at least, we can try to do something > automatic about it). Any thoughts on how the archives can improve? > > dmg ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 17:12:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:16:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Where's the Glasgow Rose? Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805212314.TAA15840@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk >Carol Tombro's second link had it: The Glasgow Rose. I was going to >scan my copy of the photo this evening and put it up, but it turns >out that someone in France has already violated the copyright. >Phew! Go to>> You gotta watch those copyrights...........you never know whos lurking out there. Just waiting to pounce. my best, pj ( who has someone hot on her tail) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 17:18:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:28:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: HELP! Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805212327.TAA16425@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Larry, There are tons of design books out there with marine life. And a few that even are done specifically for restuarant themes. Reinforcement is a must with panels this size and should be thought out in your design . And you also say that bracer bars are out of the question? uhoh. Because this work is being created for a public space.......and you admit to being ignorant as to the construction aspects of this type of commission. I just have to ask.........................how is your liability insurance? And I am not trying to be funny or sarcastic. my best, pj (who knows what happens to stained glass installations in bar areas!!!!) > >I'm designing and will be making several foiled panels to be mounted in >existing wood frames and to be viewed from both sides, INSIDE a restaurant >(between bar and dining area). These panels will be about 46" wide by 48" >high. > >What can you tell me about using INTERNAL copper-plated steel strips in >these panels (external bar reinforcements are of course out of the >question)? I also need advice about aluminum framing for the panels. > >Finally, any advice about designing and executing aquatic scenes of various >kinds (salmon in streams, coral reefs with fish, etc.) would be appreciated. >Know of any books or websites that might help? > >Thanks for your help, including any other technical tips about foil types >etc.! I'm pretty ignorant! > >Larry Stout > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 17:32:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:28:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Nasrene MacDonald" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: a few cynical thoughts Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:29:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May21.9291.0> Precedence: bulk Before you get deep into it, find out if there are any laws governing liability of glass partitions, as to height, visibility, and any other specifications. Find out if there are square feet restrictions. Find out if you have cover one or both sides of the panels with safety glass or a laminate or not. MAKE SURE you carry liability, as we are a suit happy society!!!!! Also check into the use of lead, or be safe and use zinc or lead free solder if it is a foil project. The term "CYA" should be foremost............... Also make sure about installation, payment to you, and so forth. enjoy,H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 17:45:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:43:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cyberstreet.com!nasmacd From: nasmacd@cyberstreet.com (Nasrene MacDonald) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: P.S. Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:45:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May21.134528.0> Precedence: bulk P.S.--What is the best up-to-date in depth and comprensive how-to book for stained glass technique and materials, particularly in regard to large, internally reinforced foiled panels and windows? THANKS AGAIN !!! --Larry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 18:03:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Wholesale versus retail Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:21:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199805220022.BAA30931@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi Christie and others... Howard is doing a pretty good job with the pros & cons. Pros for going retail: Regular income, steady work,known customers Cons: boredom-factor, dead-lines, need to employ extra staff (do you REALLY want to make 10,000 of the same item yourself...?) The regulars are then going to want discounts for quantity and you will end up spending a lot of time negotiating "fair" pricing. The whole whole-sale area is a quagmire... Consider it carefully... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Christie wrote: Hi gang. Question for the pros. I'm at that point in my professional career where I've been invited to participate in my first wholesale show. I currently own a combination retail art glass store and stained glass studio, and mostly do custom stained glass commissions. But recently I've successfully developed a line of stained glass items which have really caught the attention of retail gift stores. Hence the interest in going wholesale. Question - can anyone give me a quick set of pros/cons to going full-time wholesale for stained glass? I would really appreciate it. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 18:04:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Copy of: archives Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:21:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199805220022.BAA30937@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dani, How about providing what you've got to Daniel and his 2 volunteers..... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK RE: Copy of: archives Amen, Kris, we have a wealth of information in the archives! Glad I made hard copies of all the posts I felt were worth saving - they'll fill three notebooks if I ever get that far! We could write one heck of a stained glass book with all the info available!! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 18:26:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:23:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re:Lost Art? Or Craft? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:21:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199805220022.BAA30956@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Wow!!!! How could I possibly compete Dani, You have stolen my thunder!!!! :-> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Dani write (heavily edited) is also one of the reasons folks in this country don't support the arts in a very big way (except involuntarily through their tax donations). that the public can appreciate enough to REALLY support - in the only way that counts- by BUYING it! Okay, Elisabeth, the soap box is yours! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 18:30:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:23:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Art or Craft? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:21:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199805220022.BAA30950@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi Artists/Craftsmen... Noone has yet offered me any viewpoint of what an "artisan" is.... ( i.e. perhaps a THIRD alternative?) ? Someone (I think Mike) suggested that Art is expressing emotions. In which case - to follow the logic of that train of thought - a carver of "love-spoons" is an Artist and a butcher is a Craftsman. What does that makes Damien Hirst (him with the dead cow in formaldehyde)?? Early ecclesiastical paintings were used for education, for telling a story (to a congregation who couldn't read), i.e. utilitarian (as was in deed early stained glass). Someone else mentioned the intriguing thought, that a Craftsman could be an Artist; but that it doesn't follow that an Artist could equally be a Craftsman..... What is the difference between a Sculptor ( who carves in stone) = labelled Artist ??? Stonemason (who makes stone gargoyles, i.e. carves in stone) = labelled Craftsman??? I wonder how much of our "modernisms" in language (and therefore difficult interpretations) have their root in the early medevial , strict and secretive "Guilds"; An artist, was an artist, was an artist, but a craftsman COULD not call himself a craftsman unless he had served his 3-5-7 years as a trainee and gained his Letter of Accreditition; ... and to get his accredition as a Master Craftsman was really something (10-15 years of partial servitude). When mentioning the word artist, one conjures up images of van Gogh, Rodin, and so on; But an extreme opposite comes to mind... The Circus (and don't laugh, because it's true!) A Circus Artist, a Trapeeze Artist and so on...... .....Just thinking.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (who is already dizzy) Dani wrote: I agree 100%, Albert. Fine craftsmanship is as valid as fine art - in this day and age... perhaps even more so. I've = seen some very fine craft that puts certain contemporary fine art to shame. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 18:47:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:08:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Barb/Joe W" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Humblest Apologies Date: Thu, 21 May 98 20:06:43 -0400 Message-ID: <199805220004.UAA05676@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Barb & Joe wrote: >3. Anyone know of lead glass techniques classes in eastern Pa. or Central >NJ? Rainbow Glass in Bristol, PA, (215) 785-3034 might be giving lead classes. Enjoy your weekend too! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 18:52:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 17:09:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mercury.net!johnnyc From: Johnny West To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Suscribe Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:16:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May21.161632.0> Precedence: bulk Somehow I got dropped...Please resuscribe. jw ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 18:52:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 18:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Stnglsgrn From: Stnglsgrn To: nasmacd@cyberstreet.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: P.S. Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:16:24 EDT Message-ID: <1998May22.11624.0> Precedence: bulk Stained Glass Asso. of America's Reference and Technical Manual Copyright 1992 It's cost 250.00 dollars and worth every penny. It covers all aspects of the craft. See if your library has or can get you (through inter-library loan) a copy for review before you buy. It's the only one I know of, If you hear of any others please let me know. Thanks Don ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 20:08:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:37:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Art/Craft Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:43:12 -0600 Message-ID: <1998May21.24312.0> Precedence: bulk I like the comment about how "art is created". I took this means it comes from within the artist. I like also, "art is disturbing." Here in Santa Fe, New Mexico we have a fabulous Folk Art Museum. This folk art is filled with examples of a simplier form of art, but none the less disturbing. What you get from visiting this museum is a deeper understanding of man's need to create. If he uses tin, glass shards, buttons, clay, wood, or cloth, it does not matter. Even the level of craftmanship is not an element of folk art....it is a total creation of the artist and it disturbs the observer. I feel something when I experience art. A great discussion! Anyone traveling in the New Mexico area should stop by, we are centrally located in NM. Thanks everyone. Norm & Claudette ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 20:28:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:38:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: Barb/Joe W , glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Humblest Apologies Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:37:19 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Humblest Apologies" on May 21, 18:31, Barb/Joe W writes:] > 1. Sorry if I inadvertantly opened up old sores re: my snipping contents post. > > 2. Where did bungi get its name? > It's just a name for our server. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 21:12:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 20:31:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: liability insurance Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:30:12 EDT Message-ID: <1998May22.33012.0> Precedence: bulk On a recent post, several folks suggested having liability insurance. I don't do a lot of items for the public, so I'm wondering, when should one consider obtaining this insurance? And how costly is it? Is it just for business owners? Thanks, Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 21:33:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 20:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eagle.ca!glass From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:ARCHIVES Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:14:39 -0400 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi Daniel, What about having the archives organize automatically into threads, that is, that replies to a post appear immediately under that post, regardless of when they arrived chronologically. That way, we can just look at the first question in the thread and either read or ignore the rest based on it's contents. I know that the subject sometimes changes within one thread, but I think it might be a start. Sarah > >I have been thinking how to make the archives easier to use. THat is a >tough question. If we just were a little more careful when we choose >the subject, that will dramatically improve the odds of somebody >finding the information (at least, we can try to do something >automatic about it). Any thoughts on how the archives can improve? > >dmg > > >-- >Daniel M. German "There is no national science as > there is no national multiplication table; > Anton Chekov -> what is national is no longer science." >http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html >dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 21 23:18:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:32:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "CWWSLW" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: liability insurance Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:33:35 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May21.153335.0> Precedence: bulk You only need to have one small problem, to be forever in debt. Ask your homeowners carrier about liability insurance. You might have to have a registered business to be able to get it, ASK...costs nothing to ask. Once upon a time, my (like he worked for me, HA HA) agent came over and questioned me about chemicals and fire hazard....seemed un-convinced about flux and patina being NON-flammable. Short of it, my policy was cancelled.... I made a big enough stink to get a supervisor and my agent to visit my shop about a month later, allowed them to select chemicals at random, POURED them onto my work bench, and I proceeded to strike and light a few kitchen matches, plunged them into the puddles of chemicals. The daring representatives of the company, ducked and tried to keep from being exploded by the chemicals, and lo and behold the matches were extinguished. They on the spot allowed me to get back my insurance, and when the billing came I was charged for the month I had no insurance for when the company cancelled it. I used the 30 days grace without a payment, had another carrier's policy in effect and got my (ex) agent to spend as much time and as many trips as I could trying to woo me back. Bottom line, ask about liability...maybe able to get it for a specific project or time frame. enjoy, H (who enjoys rocking the boat a little) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 04:33:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 03:47:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: liability insurance Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:49:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.24914.0> Precedence: bulk Query for the pros: I can understand liability if you make and install the piece. But should = you still liable if you just make the piece and the buyer has it = installed?=20 We have gone suite crazy. Here in Virginia one can no longer buy thin = untempered glass in large sizes (over a foot square) from the fella who = does windows and doors. He's scared you will install it in a stormdoor = and some child will run through it and he will be responsible because = you told him it was for a door (even though you didn't). Worries like = this will go a long way toward keeping me in the non-professional mode. The down side is that I have to buy plain ol' clear glass from my = stained glass shop and pay a higher price for it. Not that I mind = supporting her but if I'm just buying it to be the back of a picture = frame or to practice my scoring, I'd rather get it cheaper. Linda Campbell=20 Howard said: Bottom line, ask about liability...maybe able to get it for a specific project or time frame. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 04:51:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 03:47:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: P.S. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:52:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199805221115.HAA28724@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Stained Glass Asso. of America's Reference and Technical Manual > Copyright 1992 It's cost 250.00 dollars and worth every penny. There's a review of it at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/sgaa.htm A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 04:55:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 04:11:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Books on Mackintosh Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:15:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199805221137.HAA29200@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk Julie Sloan kindly loaned me a stack of books about Charles Rennie Mackintosh and other Scottish glass artists so I could make them known to those of you here who are interested. "Charles Rennie Mackintosh" by Alan Crawford (Thames and Hudson Ltd., London, 1995) ISBN 0-500-20283-4 "Stained Glass in The Burrell Collection" by Linda Cannon (W & R Chambers Ltd., Edinburgh, 1991) ISBN 0-550-22565-X "The St Mungo Museum of Religious Life and Art" (W & R Chambers Ltd., Edinburgh, 1991) ISBN 0-550-22566-8 "Mackintosh Architecture" edited by Jackie Cooper (Academy Editions, St Martin's Press, New York, 1977, 1984) ISBN 0-312-50244-3 "A Walk Through Glasgow Cathedral" by William J. Morris (University of Glasgow, 1995) ISBN 1-899333-03-7 "Glasgow Girls: Women in Art and Design 1880-1920" Edited by Jude Burkhauser (Red Ochre Press, Cape May NJ, 1993) ISBN 0-86241-413-X "Mackintosh's Masterwork: The Glasgow School of Art" Edited by William Buchanan (Wilhelm Ernst & Sohn, Verlag fur Architektur und technische Wissenschaften, Berlin, 1989) ISBN 3-433-02162-7 "George Walton: Designer and Architect" by Karen Moon (White Cockade Publishing, 1993) ISBN 1-873487-01-0 Many of the above will now be out of print, but you can often find them by frequenting specialists in out-of-print books. There are a few of those on-line, too. Good luck and enjoy! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 05:19:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 04:34:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sprynet.com!davis05 From: Davis To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: remove Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:44:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May22.14422.0> Precedence: bulk please remove me from the list. I'll be back!!!--Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 05:23:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 04:42:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: stained glass design Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:58:19 +1000 Message-ID: <1998May23.65819.0> Precedence: bulk -What is the best up-to-date in depth and comprensive how-to book for stained glass technique and materials, particularly in regard to large, internally reinforced foiled panels and windows? we sell a book called "How to Design Stained Glass with 84 patterns"by Jennie French and she says "...It is the book that i wanted when i first started out..." Harlequin Leadlight Home page http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 05:41:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 04:43:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re:Wholesale vs Retail Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:49:09 +1000 Message-ID: <1998May23.6499.0> Precedence: bulk To us the difference between wholesale and retail is purely academic. Most of the time we have to retail at wholesale price anyway. It has become more difficult to sell quality craft especially in Australia where we operate because of the large quantity of cheap imports into our country. Harlequin Leadlight Home page http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 05:53:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 04:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: newsgroup Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:16:01 +1000 Message-ID: <1998May23.7161.0> Precedence: bulk >>Someone in rec.crafts.glass made a salient comment today about this group. The comment might have been negative but this is the way i first heard about the bungi list. Harlequin Leadlight Home page http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 06:04:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 04:53:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: Linda Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: liability insurance Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:55:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.35559.0> References: <<1998May22.24914.0>> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > I can understand liability if you make and install the piece. But should you still liable if you just make the piece and the buyer has it > installed? Which brings another question to mind...just how long after the sale and /or installation are you liable? It's my understanding that even if a person where to purchase the piece from a gallery, made by another artist, not only is the gallery liable, but the artist too. Scary thought. I have heard of product liablity cases that went all the way back to the raw materials used produce the part or item. I would suspect the same could be true in the case of a panel produced from glass. Such a sorry state we are in. Rick Lasita http://home.fuse.net/crafts/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 06:34:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 05:29:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: scc.net!oddjob From: Sue Reitmann To: "'Glasss Group'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass layering Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:35:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May22.2357.0> Precedence: bulk I am interested in reading/learning more about the technique of layering glass to achieve "special effects" and dimension. 1.Is there any printed materials describing this process? 2.Would any bungi member who does this be willing to share their knowledge on this? I am interested in the whole overall process, not just one particular aspect of it. Thanks to all who reply. Sue Reitmann (oddjob@scc.net) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 06:55:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 05:36:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Glass adhesive (new?) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:23:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199805221246.IAA01267@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk The other day there was a discussion of glass adhesives. I said that Hxtal was the glass glue of choice by those who do restoration. But I just found out about the following company. I don't know anything about their products, but they seem to be an appropriate substitute for the long-gone but much admired "Sun-Set" glass adhesive that many people have used. I just added them to the Sources Guide online. Dewey Associates, 459 Main Street, Suite 102, New Rochelle NY 10801. Phone: (914) 633-4081. Fax: (914) 633-4175. Manufacturer of Dymax ultra light-weld visible light curing glass bonding adhesives (rapid cure when exposed to visible light), Dymax light-weld ultraviolet curing glass bonding adhesives (rapid cure when exposed to long-wave ultraviolet light), and Dymax multi-cure adhesives (cure when exposed to ultraviolet light, heat, and/or chemical activator). They also carry an assortment of ultraviolet lights. Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association 54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809 (413) 663-5512 Fax: (413) 663-7167 _____________________________________________ Home page http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ Membership http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm Members' work http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm Sources Guide http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 07:27:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DU63vie From: DU63vie To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: list Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:40:02 EDT Message-ID: <1998May22.13402.0> Precedence: bulk Please remove me from the list. Thank you ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 07:56:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:43:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: P.S. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805221340.JAA14731@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Re: Stained Glass Assoc. Reference Manual. Well if its up to 250.00 I don't think its worth every penny of it or even the dollar part of it. I am glad Albert directed to to the site to read the review. There are tons of errors and misinformation contained in the manual. pj >> Stained Glass Asso. of America's Reference and Technical Manual >> Copyright 1992 It's cost 250.00 dollars and worth every penny. > >There's a review of it at > >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/sgaa.htm > >A > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 08:06:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:53:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: a few cynical thoughts Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805221352.JAA15232@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Howard......................... some good information there.................not to scare anyone off but for those out there who think that you just create the work and have not responsibility for it once it leaves you........................... wrong. Public work is not something to take lightly. Building codes..........township regulations and so on will get you in a really bad situation if you are not aware . And pleading ignorant will not help in that type of situation. I would suggest to anyone who is interested in creating work for public spaces to speak to a few architects, learn how to read blueprints, and know what regulations might come up. my best, pj (whos liablity insurance just came due............and is re reading the policy) >Before you get deep into it, find out if there are any laws governing >liability of glass partitions, as to height, visibility, and any other >specifications. > >Find out if there are square feet restrictions. > >Find out if you have cover one or both sides of the panels with safety glass >or a laminate or not. > >MAKE SURE you carry liability, as we are a suit happy society!!!!! > >Also check into the use of lead, or be safe and use zinc or lead free solder >if it is a foil project. > >The term "CYA" should be foremost............... > >Also make sure about installation, payment to you, and so forth. > >enjoy,H > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 08:20:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:54:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: HELP! Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:52:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.55257.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Nasrene MacDonald >What can you tell me about using INTERNAL copper-plated steel strips in these panels (external bar reinforcements are of course out of the question)?< I recommend using Strong Line for your internal reinforcement. Place it between the foiled pieces prior to soldering. Make sure you have them running from one side of the panel to the other in one continuous length, bending around pieces where necessary. Do both vertical and horizontal lines. Make sure you allow for the slightly additional width necessary. This stuff really does work. Don't be afraid to use it. But I would suggest you design your panels with plenty of curves so that the design itself helps strengthen the panel. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 08:24:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: re: newsgroup Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805221355.JAA15355@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk uhoh a disgruntled ex-bungi member? Well at least you made it here. Rember its not what they say about you that counts...........people never remember what is said just who it was said about. my best, pj >>>Someone in rec.crafts.glass made a salient comment today about this group. >The comment might have been negative but this is the way i first heard about >the bungi list. > >Harlequin Leadlight Home page >http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html >http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 08:46:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 07:47:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glass adhesive (new?) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805221446.KAA17832@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Albert, Re: Dymax This is the adhesive we have been using lately. We replaced Hxtal because of the time factor. We also use a high intensity light with this adhesive..........so its not for someone looking for an inexpensive adhesive. Results..???? We have had good and bad results. One thing for certain. Your suface better be really really really clean. With the Dymax. A really nice company to work with....they will send you samples if you request them. my best, pj >The other day there was a discussion of glass adhesives. I said that >Hxtal was the glass glue of choice by those who do restoration. But I >just found out about the following company. I don't know anything >about their products, but they seem to be an appropriate substitute >for the long-gone but much admired "Sun-Set" glass adhesive that many >people have used. I just added them to the Sources Guide online. > >Dewey Associates, 459 Main Street, Suite 102, New Rochelle > NY 10801. Phone: (914) 633-4081. Fax: (914) > 633-4175. > > Manufacturer of Dymax ultra light-weld > visible light curing glass bonding > adhesives (rapid cure when exposed to > visible light), Dymax light-weld > ultraviolet curing glass bonding adhesives > (rapid cure when exposed to long-wave > ultraviolet light), and Dymax multi-cure > adhesives (cure when exposed to ultraviolet > light, heat, and/or chemical activator). > They also carry an assortment of > ultraviolet lights. > >Albert > >Albert Lewis, Executive Director >International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. >A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association >54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809 >(413) 663-5512 Fax: (413) 663-7167 >_____________________________________________ >Home page http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ >Membership http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm >Members' work http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm >Sources Guide http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm >Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/ > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 08:54:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:26:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jerseycape.com!lsg From: "Michael Minchelli" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Archives???? How to find something specific ? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:10:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.71026.0> Precedence: bulk I have seen the archives mentioned many times. One person telling another to go to them because a subject may have already been covered at great depth. Well I went to the archives, all I saw were a load of numbers. Is that as good as it gets? Is there any index or are we to just keep looking at all of the pages? Basically, How do we find information on a particular subject from our archives? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 09:13:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jerseycape.com!lsg From: "Michael Minchelli" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Liability Insurance Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:15:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.71529.0> Precedence: bulk I have just begun to look for a general liability plan. I would be earnestly interested in hearing what some of you who have liability insurance for your stained glass businesses have to say on the subject. The more specific you will get (i.e.. company, premium, limits, experiences with claims, etc.) the more appreciative I, and I an confidant others, will be. Thanks much!!! Michael from LSG ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 09:32:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:52:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: Art or Craft? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:51:52 EDT Message-ID: <1998May22.155152.0> Precedence: bulk Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK said: > Noone has yet offered me any viewpoint of what an > "artisan" is.... ( i.e. perhaps a THIRD alternative?) ? My Webster's Unabridged defines the two interchangeably (love those circular referents!), but I've always tended to hink of an "artisan" as someone who works with the artist-designer on a project while the "craftsman" works independently. The skills are equal, but the focus is different (one-of-a-kind vs. "production" work). Other than that, if you're concerned with "sexist vs. inclusive language" (as lots of people on this side of the pond tend to be, sometimes to the point of obsession =8-O ), I suppose you'd go with "artisan" because it doesn't involve the dreaded "M word." Just my 2 brass farthings' worth... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 10:00:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:53:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: dremel tool Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:51:36 EDT Message-ID: <1998May22.155136.0> Precedence: bulk Deb's inquiring mind wants to know: > I'm interested in the dremel but the one with the snake > like ?arm? [...] what do you think of it compared to say > a sears brand with the same ?arm? According to what the sales guy at a Sears hardware store told me, Dremel makes the Sears brand. If that's true, it's just a case of finding out who's got it cheaper... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 10:20:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:41:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Archives???? How to find something specific ? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:44:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.84423.0> Precedence: bulk Key word search of each document has worked for me. Linda Basically, How do we find information on a particular subject from our archives? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 10:22:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:20:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Archives???? How to find something specific ? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:26:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199805221649.MAA11345@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > at all of the pages? Basically, How do we find information on a particular > subject from our archives? A suggestion: once you have a file up on your browser, press Control-F and type in a word for what you're looking for. Then press the "Enter" key and you'll jump to the first appearance of that word. press "Enter" again and you'll leap to the next appearance. (This works on a PC; if you're running a Mac, I can't help you, sorry.) If you discover a thread name that's leading in the direction you want, change the search word. Short of an indexed version of the archives, which might be possible given some of the kewl tools out on the web these days but which isn't available (yet) for the archives, the above might be a helpful shortcut if you're looking for one particular thing and want to skip all the rest. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 10:42:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:56:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: a few cynical thoughts Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:50:06 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980522125006.006bcf70@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> References: <<199805221352.JAA15232@water.waterw.com>> Precedence: bulk Just another perspective: As a home owner I ALWAYS ask.... "Do you have insurance, how much and what kind?" of anyone that does any type of work at my house.... ie: trades, grounds, cleaning...... No insurance, I do not contract work with them. Should any kind of accident happen while at my house, I want to protect my investment and limit my liability. Also.... my experience tells me that many businesses will not contract work with any vendors that do not carry their own insurance. It is a requirement of any purchase agreement with them. Barbara..... At 09:52 AM 5/22/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Howard......................... > >some good information there.................not to scare anyone off but >for those out there who think that you just create the work >and have not responsibility for it once it leaves you........................... >wrong. > >Public work is not something to take lightly. Building >codes..........township regulations >and so on will get you in a really bad situation if you are not aware . >And pleading ignorant will not help in that type of situation. > >I would suggest to anyone who is interested in creating work for >public spaces to speak to a few architects, learn how to read blueprints, >and know what regulations might come up. > >my best, >pj (whos liablity insurance just came due............and is re reading the >policy) > > > > > > > > >>Before you get deep into it, find out if there are any laws governing >>liability of glass partitions, as to height, visibility, and any other >>specifications. >> >>Find out if there are square feet restrictions. >> >>Find out if you have cover one or both sides of the panels with safety glass >>or a laminate or not. >> >>MAKE SURE you carry liability, as we are a suit happy society!!!!! >> >>Also check into the use of lead, or be safe and use zinc or lead free solder >>if it is a foil project. >> >>The term "CYA" should be foremost............... >> >>Also make sure about installation, payment to you, and so forth. >> >>enjoy,H >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 10:54:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:02:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Reinforcement Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:59:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199805221700.SAA15963@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi Christie, That's an interesting point.... Are you saying that "curvaceous" panels are inherantly stronger...? Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Christie wrote: This stuff really does work. Don't be afraid to use it. But I would suggest you design your panels with plenty of curves so that the design itself helps strengthen the panel. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 11:07:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:04:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: S.G. Manual Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:59:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199805221700.SAA15960@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Oh Dear, There was me getting hopeful and about to prep[are to shoot off to my local library to ask for a preview copy. New materials, new books are always welcome in my SG library. In which case, may I suggest for the US audience/members the book/s by Anita & Seymour Isenberg "How To Work In Stained Glass", published by The Chilton Book Company / Radnor Pennsylvania, ISBN No. 0-8019-7355-4 and its companion "Stained Glass - Advanced Techniques and Projects" (same authors; same publisher) ISBN No. 0-8019-6195-5, both available in paperback at approx USD.30-40 each. Then there is what I call My Bible " Stained Glass", by Lawrence Lee, George Seddon, Francis Stephens published in UK by Mitchell Beazley Publishers Ltd in 1976, and again in 1989 by Spring Books, ISBN No. --600-56281-6 for which I paid about UK Pound Sterling 40 in 1990 (and which I am told is currently out of print). Then there is a very excellent book by Patrick Reyntiens (Of Coventry Cathedral fame) "The Technique of Stained Glass", published by B.T. Batsford Ltd, London (1967, 1977 & 1983) ISBN No. 0-7134-2510-5 at approx. USD30. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK PJ wrote: Re: Stained Glass Assoc. Reference Manual. Well if its up to 250.00 I don't think its worth every penny of it or even the dollar part of it. I am glad Albert directed to to the site to read the review. There are tons of errors and misinformation contained in the manual. pj >> Stained Glass Asso. of America's Reference and Technical Manual >> Copyright 1992 It's cost 250.00 dollars and worth every penny. > >There's a review of it at > >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/sgaa.htm > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 11:13:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass layering Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:59:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199805221700.SAA15957@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Sue and others Interested, Robert Oddy seems to be the guy who might be able to share of his expertise and knowledge. He (as far as I am aware) is not a Bunginian; but his work certainly had people going Ohh! and ahh! some months ago. Relying on the fact that we can't "take it with us when we go".... he might perhaps be persuaded to show you / teach you.... Depending on how pursuasive you are... If you don't ask - you won't get. All he can do is to say NO. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Sue Reitman wrote: I am interested in reading/learning more about the technique of layering glass to achieve "special effects" and dimension. 1.Is there any printed materials describing this process? 2.Would any bungi member who does this be willing to share their knowledge on this? I am interested in the whole overall process, not just one particular aspect of it. Thanks to all who reply. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 11:27:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Reinforcement Date: Fri, 22 May 98 11:03:07 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<199805221700.SAA15963@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > Hi Christie, > That's an interesting point.... > Are you saying that "curvaceous" panels are inherantly stronger...? > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK oh yes, most definitely. patterns that have lots of straight lines that go from one edge to another tend to fold when picked up or flexed on that line. however, curves will not fold, because you're then trying to have a shear force on the glass rather than the solder line/foil/lead. however, a curvy panal is more apt to break glass when it flexes than a straight line panel for just this reason. charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 11:53:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:06:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: P D RUSS To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Leaded panel repairs Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:06:18 EDT Message-ID: <1998May22.18618.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-20 14:42:03 EDT, you write: << I LOVE mine and have decided to go and get the big brother version of it complete with the flexshaft (smaller piece to hold in your hand to work with). It's truly one of those things I have on hand all the time and use almost every day for something! Susie (Who is NOT on Dremel's payroll!) >> Hi, I have a Dremel tool but hardly use it. The only time I used it to polish glass was on a piece of "solder lace" with small openings in it, and I thought it didn't do such a great job. I ended up tearing off small pieces of t-shirt and threading it through the holes and pulling it back and forth. I used regular SG wax polish and the Dremel to remove it. What did I do wrong? Please get me know how you like the flexshaft, I have thought in the past I might like the Dremel better with it. Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 12:20:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:14:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: P.S. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:11:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.111151.0> Precedence: bulk Hi pj- Thanks for commenting on the SGAA Reference Guide - I just had my library put an inter-library transfer on it. We'll take a good look at it and let the group know what we think of it. I've heard = pros and cons about it - I'm sure we'll have an opinion about it! Best, Dani = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 12:44:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:13:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: P D RUSS To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: This board and replies Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:11:42 EDT Message-ID: <1998May22.191142.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-20 22:22:09 EDT, you write: << This forced me (and everyone else who doesn't know everything) to have to send a message to the question asker to forward the responses that s/he received, and little information ever came to my mailbox from that method. There was no way of knowing who had the answer. Techniques and tips were not conveyed to me. >> This hasn't worked for me either. Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 12:56:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:14:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:Reinforcement Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:11:09 -0400 Message-ID: <199805221911.PAA00286@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805221700.SAA15963@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk Hi Elisabeth, Toby> Hi Christie, Toby> That's an interesting point.... Toby> Are you saying that "curvaceous" panels are inherantly stronger...? Yes, they are. There are some high mathematics and structural analysis behind the reason. But easiest way I can exemplify this is the following. The material of the egg shell is very weak, but when it s the shape of an egg, it becomes very, very strong. It is particularly stronger from the outside towards the inside. The same design principle is applied in architecture --archs, rotundas and the like. Toby> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK -- Daniel M. German "No one can be a great thinker who does not recognize, that as a thinker it is his first duty to follow his intellect to whatever John Stuart Mill -> conclusions it may lead." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 13:21:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "Gerard" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: re: stained glass design Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:12:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.11125.0> Precedence: bulk I'd forgotten all about Jennie French's book - it's far and away one of the best books out there. And, though I'm not = a fan of canned patterns, hers are very very good. Any professional shop = could use them, the line quality is lovely, and she has a pretty good chapter on photographing your work. Now if you can only find it.... our whole- salers don't carry it. = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 13:22:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:28:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: Barb/Joe W Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Humblest Apologies Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:29:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.112929.0> References: <<3.0.3.32.19980521183132.006a8ef4@nj1.aae.com>> Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > 3. Anyone know of lead glass techniques classes in eastern Pa. or Central NJ? South Street Stained Glass on South Street in Philadelphia periodically holds leaded glass classes. I have been trying to find time to take them for awhile. They specialize in leaded glass much more than Rainbow does. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 14:01:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:46:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re:Reinforcement Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:41:53 +0000 Message-ID: <199805222042.VAA18559@saturn.nildram.co.uk> References: <<199805221700.SAA15963@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk Ok Daniel, You were quick off the mark.... I follow the logic of the egg and appreciate all that you say. But I am still intrigued. For as long as I can remember, I have never been put "wise" to the factor that curves makes a panel inherently stronger. So I have always re-inforced according to what the "wise old men" taught me - regardless of curves. If you can take on board the fact that I am the World's lousiest mathematician, I would nevertheless like to learn a little more detail than the egg-shell theory. Could you expand just a little bit more...... The same principle - I suppose - is applicable in bridge building ?? I can understand how this would make a bridge-like structure stronger from the outside > inwards, but it's not quite clear in my mind how that is also applicable to the structural strength of stained glass..... Confused from England (aka Elisabeth 'n Toby) Hi Dear Elisabeth --can I say Elisa? Toby> Hi Christie, Toby> That's an interesting point.... Toby> Are you saying that "curvaceous" panels are inherantly stronger...? Yes, they are. There are some high mathematics and structural analysis behind the reason. But easiest way I can exemplify this is the following. The material of the egg shell is very weak, but when it has the shape of an egg, it becomes very, very strong. It is particularly stronger from the outside towards the inside. The same design principle is applied in architecture --archs, rotundas and the like. Toby> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Toby> Christie wrote: Toby> This stuff really does work. Don't be afraid to use it. But I Toby> would suggest you design your panels with plenty of curves Toby> so that the design itself helps strengthen the panel. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 14:28:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:20:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Stepping Stone molds: a comment Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:17:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May22.61731.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk It has always annoyed me, that stepping stone molds are so expensive at stained glass stores. This annoyance has escalated recently with the realization that a plastic wheelbarrow(much stronger and design far more intricate) can be purchased for the same price as a 14" dia. stepping stone mold. Hmmmm? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 14:28:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:31:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Insurance Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:26:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May22.62659.0> References: <<199805221911.PAA00286@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I have looked into this at another level. We craft show people are asked to have liability insurance of at least $500,000 to qualify for some craft shows. This question was one of the reasons I went hunting on the net to talk to fellow glass craftpersons/artists. I was told it was no big deal from the promotors, you could get your home insurance to extend to the show. Well not according to the 4 insurance agents I contacted. Three had no such policy available and the forth wanted $400/show or $600/yr nonrefundable. It was suggested by all 4 agents, that a group of crafters get together and form their own policy. That way it could be offered cheaper by the company who would handle it. My expertise is limited to writing a check for the policy. Anyone out there interested in pursuing this, or can help me to do it? As has been said many times in the past, it only takes one incident to lose your house! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 14:54:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:48:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: Attachmate.com!TIFFANYA From: Tiffany Allesina To: "'Stained Glass'" Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: stained glass design Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:48:05 -0700 Message-ID: <199805222046.NAA28912@eve.atm.com> Precedence: bulk I just ordered this book (Jennie French's) from Amazon for $7.16 (not including shipping or tax). I have found it very interesting reading although I haven't finished it yet. I'm not really sure it's going to help someone like me who is not a great artist and is trying to figure out a Celtic knot pattern I got out of another book. My problem is that I built and re-built the window three times and finally realized that I will never be able to do it in lead, maybe not at all. I got a ton of great advice form the group. but the sad fact is this design is beyond my skills. But I am willing to give it one last chance. I'm going to start from scratch, create a new pattern, design it for foil this time, and keep my fingers crossed. I had to abandon the lead because there are some triangular pieces that come to very long, thin points and when I tried to lead them, the tips would break off. My plan is to scan the pattern, do a little redesign so that the corners of the triangle aren't so thin -- which means redesigning the boarder -- and then blow it up, print it out and go from there. Any advice on any aspect of this plan would be appreciated. I have only created one design myself before and it was very Frank Lloyd Wright-ish, so it was easy to draw full-size on graph paper. tiff > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael J. Greer [SMTP:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] > Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 12:12 PM > To: Gerard > Subject: re: stained glass design > > I'd forgotten all about Jennie French's > book - it's far and away one of the best > books out there. And, though I'm not = > > a fan of canned patterns, hers are very > very good. Any professional shop = > > could use them, the line quality is > lovely, and she has a pretty good > chapter on photographing your work. > Now if you can only find it.... our whole- > salers don't carry it. = > > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 15:00:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:52:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: HELP! Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:51:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.12514.0> References: <<1998May22.55257.0>> Precedence: bulk Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > I recommend using Strong Line for your internal reinforcement. > Place it between the foiled pieces prior to soldering. Make sure > you have them running from one side of the panel to the other > in one continuous length, bending around pieces where > necessary. Do both vertical and horizontal lines. This seems to me geometrically impssible...(If you can see what I've underlined in the quote above.0 There will have to be a break in either the vertical or horizonal direction... Dorothy K ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 15:18:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:43:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Jennie French books? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 05:47:48 +0000 Message-ID: <199805222210.SAA26574@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk Dani, Was it you who said you liked Jennie French's book, but your supplier doesn't carry it? I thought to myself, "Say! I'll try that new search tool on the Guild's web site!" (It's linked to Amazon.com and earns the Guild a small commission.) Anyway, here's what I found: How to Design Stained Glass : With 84 Patterns (Dover Craft Books) ~ Usually ships in 24 hours Jennie French / Paperback / Published 1994 Our Price: $7.16 ~ You Save: $1.79 (20%) Design for Stained Glass Jennie French / Published 1982 Glass Works the Copper Foil Tech of Stained Glass Jennie French / Published 1988 Glass-Works; The Copperfoil Technique of Stained Glass. Jennie, French / Published 1975 A bunch, isn't it? Julie and I both order books from Amazon.com and find them to be pretty darn good as far as getting and delivering them promptly and at a good price. You might try them, although Jennie's books are already included in the Guild's regular list of books. Click on the "Over 2,700 glass books!" logo on the Guild's home page. Jennie's foil book is under, er ... copper foil. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 15:34:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 14:21:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Reinforcement Date: Fri, 22 May 98 14:19:30 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<199805221700.SAA15963@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > Ok Daniel, > You were quick off the mark.... > I follow the logic of the egg and appreciate all that you say. > But I am still intrigued. > For as long as I can remember, I have never been put "wise" to the > factor that curves makes a panel inherently stronger. So I have > always re-inforced according to what the "wise old men" taught me - > regardless of curves. > If you can take on board the fact that I am the World's lousiest > mathematician, I would nevertheless like to learn a little more > detail than the egg-shell theory. Could you expand just a little bit > more...... > The same principle - I suppose - is applicable in bridge building ?? > I can understand how this would make a bridge-like structure stronger > from the outside > inwards, but it's not quite clear in my mind how > that is also applicable to the structural strength of stained > glass..... > Confused from England (aka Elisabeth 'n Toby) an analogy: think of a door on a hinge. foil the side of the door next to the frame on the hinge side and the side of the frame, and solder it. it won't be hard to open the door because you're only dealing with maybe 1/8 of solder that you have to break: ie the 2 sides that are overlapped on the front of the door, and a lever the width of the door delivers quite a bit larger force than pushing on the side of the door next to the hinge side. ever try to push open a door from the hinge side? now take a window. cut a hole in the door and the wall that are each 1/2 of the window in size. install the window. if you open the door, you have to break the glass. the force to do that is larger the larger the window is, since you're trying to snap a piece of glass in half by holding the outer edges (remembering that you have to hold glass with your hands on each side of a cut very closely to break it). thus, the deeper the glass goes 'into' another piece, without becoming skinny itself, the more force you need to break it. this is what makes the panel stronger. of course, if it's long but very skinny, then it doesn't add as much strength, if any, since then you're dealing with a small distance of glass that has to break. the reason arches are stronger is a bit different. force (eg gravity and load) is all in one direction, downwards. well, almost, but the side forces are negligable and we can ignore them. think of it this way. push on the top of an arch. the force can't go straight down to the ground because there isn't anything there to move the force. 50% goes down each side and becomes a vector force. each vector has a vertical and horizontal component, and thus the vector is a diagonal. if the shear force necessary to destroy the side of the arch is lower than the horizontal force amount, the arch collapses. otherwise, it stands. each component of a vector force is some percentage of the total force, thus the vector sum of the 2 forces = the downward force. however, since each vector is smaller than the total force, a curved arch is stronger then a rectangular arch. an introductory college-level physics text would have the formulas to figure out how much stronger an arch is, and how to do vector products and vector sums of angular forces. i don't happen to have my old texts around anymore, and i'm not sure people are THAT interested. the expression is: the exercise is left to the reader. gosh, the things i remember from 25 years ago from freshman physics. regards, charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 16:00:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:16:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Michael Minchelli Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Archives???? How to find something specific ? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:14:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.141422.0> References: <<1998May22.71026.0>> Precedence: bulk Michael Minchelli wrote: > > I have seen the archives mentioned many times. One person telling another > to go to them because a subject may have already been covered at great > depth. Well I went to the archives, all I saw were a load of numbers. Is > that as good as it gets? Is there any index or are we to just keep looking > at all of the pages? Basically, How do we find information on a particular > subject from our archives? > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's difficult at best. i tried going through it myself. 1-2 megs each. then you have to do a keyword search... it's easier to ask first. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 16:13:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:35:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Celtic (knot) Designs Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 23:33:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199805222234.XAA19520@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Tiffany Allesina ( and other Celtic enthusiasts) By pure co-incidence, a dear friend of mine asked me this very evening about Celtic Designs and Celtic knot designs. For her I compiled the following list of books that I myself have or know of. Perhaps these might be useful to yourself. Some of them you should be able to pick from, and through various means of graphic reproduction, manipulate to what you have in mind First of all, there is 1. "Celtic Design Coloring Book" by.... :-< Ed. Sibbett Jr..... (Yuck) (A present from an innocent well-wisher.. My opinions about Ed. Sibbett Jr. is WELL documented in Bungi!!!!.) Price in USA USDllrs.2.95, Price in UK UK Sterl. 3.00 (!!) 2. "The Celtic Art Source Book" by Courtney Davis, published by Blandford Press 1988 ISBN No. 0-7137-2144-8 (paperback) Distributed in the USA by Stirling Publishing Co., Inc. New York Price UK Sterl. 9.00 3. "Celtic Art - The Method of Construction" by George Bain, publ. Constable London 1992, ISBN No. 0-09-461830-5 (paperback) Price UK Sterl 9.00 4. Early Medieval Designs" by Eva Wilson, publ by British Museum Pattern Books 1983, 1990 ISBN No. 0-7141-8056-4 (paperback) Price UK Sterl. 7.00 The latter has an excellent introduction that analyzes the Scandinavian influence and "border-line influences"; George Bain's book is full of detailed illustrations about "methods of constructions" and is quite a scholarly work.( He also wrote another title "Celtic Knotwork" which I have not got and the ISBN No of which I do not have). It is quite an extensive book. The Courtney Davis book has a section dedicated purely to the Knot designs; the book also has about 50 colour plates which are quite exciting. Courtney Davis is less of a historian than a "revivalist" who re-created or designed his own versions of Celtic designs (not less exciting for that...). Your local library should be able to obtain these for you to study and obtain whatever shapes you need. Good Luck! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 16:44:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:46:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mfi.net!jcampbell From: "jcampbell" To: "Shirley Balloch" , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Stepping Stone molds: a comment Date: Fri, 22 May 98 18:28:25 PDT Message-ID: <1998May23.12825.0> References: <<1998May22.61731.0>> Precedence: bulk Also round trays used for serving are excellent for 14" rounds. Purchased 3 at the flea market at 1.50. each and they were brand new. Worked fine. and a lot cheaper. Judy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 16:53:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:13:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: S.G. Manual Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:12:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.151217.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Elisabeth- Agree with all the comments you = made about the books you listed, = but remember, some of them are out of print. Also, the Isenberg = books have such an outdated look... so sixties which, I suppose is fashionable again... but, ugh those ghastly flower things! Have you = seen any of the more current books by Marc Gerstein and his partner (whose name I can't recall)? The photography is beautiful and everything is very up-to-date. I think they even have a complete stained glass guide. Oh, by the way, Peter Mollica's little book, "Stained Glass Primer-Vol.I" is still available directly from Peter M. until supplies run out. His cement = recipe is a big No-No, though - uses portland. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 17:09:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:15:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Copy of: re: stained glass design Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:12:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.151225.0> Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Michael J. Greer, 105715,1412 TO: "Gerard", INTERNET:harlquin@mpx.com.au CC: All, INTERNET:GLASS@BUNGI.COM DATE: 5/22/98 12:24 PM RE: Copy of: re: stained glass design I'd forgotten all about Jennie French's book - it's far and away one of the best books out there. And, though I'm not = a fan of canned patterns, hers are very very good. Any professional shop = could use them, the line quality is lovely, and she has a pretty good chapter on photographing your work. Now if you can only find it.... our whole- salers don't carry it. = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 17:14:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:32:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Tiffany Allesina" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: stained glass design Date: Fri, 22 May 98 19:30:37 -0400 Message-ID: <199805222328.TAA17857@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Tiffany wrote: (snip) and is trying to figure >out a Celtic knot pattern I got out of another book. I'm going to start from scratch, create a new pattern, design >it for foil this time, and keep my fingers crossed. Tiffany, I've done two Celtic knot patterns in foil. They're tricky; each piece must be exactly lined up to the adjacent ones or it will start going off very quickly. If you're off by even 1/16 of an inch, the flow will be interrupted. My advice - take your time! Be precise! When it's done congratulate yourself! You can do it. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 17:46:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:02:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Liability/guarantees Date: Fri, 22 May 98 19:58:30 -0400 Message-ID: <199805222356.TAA19658@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Hi Bungi Pros: All this liability talk has got me thinking: Last fall I did a good-sized window panel (hanging) for someone I didn't particularly like. (First time ever, hope the last!) When he picked it up, he asked me "do you guarantee your work?" My answer was yes, but from all this discussion, now I'm wondering...guarantee what? That a hook won't come off and it comes crashing down? That he doesn't hit it with a broom handle and expect me to repair it free? And then of course, for how long would such a guarantee last? (s) Scratching her head in PA. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 18:15:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:40:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:38:28 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980522183828.007a9820@sol.racsa.co.cr> Precedence: bulk Dear friends, I am wondering if I am having trouble receiving... or is it really true that you have all gone silent? I haven't received anything in the last couple of days... Meg RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL Apdo 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 18:31:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:45:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: iname.com!alpas From: "." To: "Stained Glass list" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 00:56:08 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May22.1568.0> Precedence: bulk Ok Mr X, lets chat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd like to know with who I'm talking to and I'd suggest that u sign your messages. This is not an anonymous list !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My initial post asked for people who uses the mentioned technology. Do u use it? I really would like to meet people who does. Though I use it for some 6 years, it seems still quite new and unknown. I would like to have a comparative opinion of somebody who understands and masters both this and traditional technologies, I mean advantages and disadvantages of each one. Regards, Luis alpas@iname.com + ah??? do you mean stained glass overlay???? + I would love to chat with + you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >I use polymer resin materials for stained glass, namelly >from RSG in UK and Ueno in Japan . > >I'd like to 'talk' to people who uses this kind of >technology and exchange some experiences and points of view. > >Luis Sousa >Portugal >alpas@iname.com > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 18:43:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:56:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Clocks Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:53:42 +0000 Message-ID: <199805230054.BAA26915@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Jean ( & other clock enthusiasts...)., I promised you a more expansive e-mail about clocks. I myself started out about 2 years ago experimenting with clocks (in copper-foil. OOoooh how Daring!!!) I love clocks! Somewhere else I have mentioned that I bought a very old farm-worker's cottage in a rural part of South-to-Middle England.. The ceilings here are very low. If you are taller than 5'10" you need to duck through the doors. The are a whole variety of clocks in this house; including an old glorious Grand Father Clock. I bought the cottage on the condition that the Grand Father Clock would fit... It sort of did, but not quite.... The old ceilings are wavy and don't measure up from one end of a room to the other. The ceilings (and all of the internal walls) are made of the old "Wattle and Daub" construction (horsehair & cow-dung???). So... to fit my Grand Father Clock, I was left with the decision of Either chopping off the clock OR making a hole in the ceiling..... (....and the carpet....and the floor) I ended up deciding for the latter. Imagine when people walk in here for the first time, seeing the clock disappearing into the ceiling....... Total conversation stopper!!! The Grand Father Clkock is VERY happy, thank you. keeps excellent time , grinds and chimes every hour...... I made "minor" adjustments to the cottage to fir the clock..... Enter the World of Stained Glass Clocks..... It was preceeded by attending a wood-working exhibition at Earl's Court in London some years ago, where I saw the work of a clock-maker who had made not just the clock, the face, the pendulum in wood, but the entire working mechanism , cogs and all in WOOD. I was truly awe-struck. The mere thought of it still makes me salivate! I myself posted a little plea about 18 months ago into Bungi about clocks (especially pendulum clocks)I think my file contain 7-8 postings in total. So I am very happy to revive the Clock subject It is the ONE thing that will tempt me into the realms of copper foil. I have made about 14-20 by now. Initially I started off by making "flat"-designs. The German pattern Company "GlasDesign" has published a folder of about 7-8 clock designs in the form of animals. A rather fun one of a cat ( who -, with modifications - could be made to look really evil and fun) with the tail as the pendulum I still have the folder somewhere..... otherwise Herbert should be able to give us all the details...... None of these clocks were framed in anything.. So the edges had to be immaculate..... Then I discovered 2 further pattern books (I seem to be heavily into BOOKS tonight....) "Stained Glass Wall Decorations", by Randy & Judy Wardell (Mixed projects between mirrors and flat clocks) Again not really suitable for wooden surrounds. The flat designs totally unsuitabl;e for the British taste and needed heavy re-modification. The exception being the 3-D Grand Mother Clock - which is quite ambitious. "Stained Glass Clock Gallery" (same authors etc as above) with a little bit more 3-D designs (7 flat designs and 4 3-D ones) The most popular and workable clock is the School House Clock. I would advise (initially) against buying a pre-made brass (or similar pre-fabricated) clock face. They are very easily discoloured by flux and the quality of the lettering/numbering is often questionnable (i.e. they come off easily). The other popular clock is the "Sussex Clock" I have not yet attempted the "Vienna Regulator" The irritation for me is that I have to purchase the pendulum clock movement and I have no control over it or real effective guarantee what it is, where it is from, how it functions and how I could back up a customer if I was to make a clock and sell it. The movements themselves "Across the Pond" cost about USD35-40 each (pendulum). Even with these electronic pendulum movements , you need to fit them within your clock construction so accurarely that the pendulum keeps swinging. The balance is quite fine and can cause considerable frustration if you get it even slightly wrong...... On the whole, I have found that one can make anything into aclock, serious or fun. For 3-D designs I have not yet ventured on my own to create something away from a pattern. But I am very keen and am very interested in sharing ideas and thoughts,,, How else can I help you along.... Elisabeth 'n Toby ( who is always watching time for his FOOD!!!) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 19:03:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:48:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Stnglsgrn From: Stnglsgrn To: alewis@vgernet.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: P.S. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:45:26 EDT Message-ID: <1998May23.04526.0> Precedence: bulk The review in igga for the SGAA Reference & Technical manual is for the 1988 edition. Are you planing to review the new 1992 edition. There seems to me that there are many changes in the book. Some of the authors mentioned in the review are no longer included and others are habe been added and additonal chapters added. Don ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 19:41:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:48:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Advice on displaying work Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:21:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May22.112111.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I have fallen in love with flight into fantasy's double pack hummingbirds. They are a good seller and I have them in a shop on the bayfront in a south window. The hummingbirds are 60% lead. They have a wing span of maybe 4 inches. Only the wings are glass. Halogen light makes them light up beautifully, but it is hot and dangerous. They seem to need light right up on them. This of course makes display in a window difficult. We have them hanging from an open wired corner plant stand(great at Rite Aid for $19.95(no stock here either)). It has 3 shelves(open), is 5 ft. tall and is pie shaped with outside circle maybe 18" wide. We flooded it with a halogen work light and that was great. But the housing gets way too hot to be safe. We need a cheap(pardon me, economical) way to light this up, esp. in the window, and in the store too. It seems to need light both from the bottom and the top. Of course light behind would shine out into the customers faces. Maybe it is the fact that the shelves are all open so the light can disperse more. Guess we need one of those display cases that are white top and bottom and have a locked door. Anybody doing these, we just added a neat feature. I met up with a lady who does bead work and she beaded(in fine glass beads)strings to hang the hummers from. Really made the effect great. But added to the lighting problem. Any and all advice greatly appreciated. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 19:57:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Liability Insurance Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:19:14 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May22.161914.0> Precedence: bulk Does the IGGA or other industry group have any insurance available?? I'm doing more and more work for profit and am needing insurance myself BUT being a small businessman with many expenses I need something very reasonable... Byron... Wells Glassworks -----Original Message----- From: Michael Minchelli To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 3:20 AM Subject: Liability Insurance >I have just begun to look for a general liability plan. I would be >earnestly interested in hearing what some of you who have liability >insurance for your stained glass businesses have to say on the subject. The >more specific you will get (i.e.. company, premium, limits, experiences >with claims, etc.) the more appreciative I, and I an confidant others, will >be. >Thanks much!!! >Michael from LSG > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 20:11:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:18:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message/glass resin or Overlay??? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:17:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805230217.WAA17991@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Ah.....I guess this one is to me. Sorry Luis, I forgot to sign my name. And it is Ms. X. And I am far from anonymous. I was uncertain when you said resin whether you meant what is used here in the United States as Stained Glass Overlay. I don't think you will find anyone on this list that uses this method it you are speaking of Overlay. To answer your first question.........no our studio does not use this method if you are speaking of the Overlay. We replace alot of it with traditional stained glass because of unhappy clients who assume that they are purchasing traditional stained glass and once it is installed find themselves with Overlay. A very big problem of misleading clients. If this is not the same process you are speaking about I am curious as to what it is you do with resin. The Overlay process here is done with sheets of plastic that are cut and laid over one piece of glass that is the size of the finished work.. Even the leadlines are plastic. I don't think a master of traditional stained glass would work in Overlay. my best, pj >Ok Mr X, lets chat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >I'd like to know with who I'm talking to and I'd suggest >that u sign your messages. This is not an anonymous list >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >My initial post asked for people who uses the mentioned >technology. Do u use it? >I really would like to meet people who does. Though I use it >for some 6 years, it seems still quite new and unknown. >I would like to have a comparative opinion of somebody who >understands and masters both this and traditional >technologies, I mean advantages and disadvantages of each >one. >Regards, >Luis >alpas@iname.com > > > > >+ ah??? do you mean stained glass overlay???? >+ I would love to chat with >+ you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > >>I use polymer resin materials for stained glass, namelly >>from RSG in UK and Ueno in Japan . >> >>I'd like to 'talk' to people who uses this kind of >>technology and exchange some experiences and points of >view. >> >>Luis Sousa >>Portugal >>alpas@iname.com >> > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 20:29:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:38:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: violeta.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:Stepping Stone molds: a comment Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:38:30 -0400 Message-ID: <199805230238.WAA00310@violeta.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998May22.61731.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Shirley, Shirley> It has always annoyed me, that stepping stone molds are so expensive at Shirley> stained glass stores. Only stepping stone molds? I have already perorated about how expensive molds --and other supplies are at SG stores. For instance, lamp molds. If a lamp mold was C$5, I'd buy more than one size. But they are C$40. No way Jose, I'd pay that. I bought a Styrofoam ball for C$1.5 Tack wax is the same. Patterns, some are C$20 each. BOoks, are two or three times more expensive than at Amazon. For instance, I got an add on the Tiffany Lamps book --sorry, I don't remember the name of the author. SG store: US$250, publishers price list: US$195. THose plastic things to cut glass on top --the ones that look like bee combs, but squeares instead of hexagons-- are 20 dollars the cheapest. A suspect that, a similar thing, used for lamps, is far cheaper. I certainly understand that they have low volume sales. But at the same time, they hurt themselves. I'd not buy a book from them, for instance. Shirley> This annoyance has escalated recently with the realization that a Shirley> plastic wheelbarrow(much stronger and design far more intricate) can be Shirley> purchased for the same price as a 14" dia. stepping stone mold. Hmmmm? Shirley> ---- -- Daniel M. German "It is useless to punish a man unless he knows why he is punished... Punishment must be unusual R. Heinlein -> or it serves no purpose." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 20:53:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:49:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: violeta.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:Reinforcement Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:45:10 -0400 Message-ID: <199805230245.WAA00318@violeta.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805221700.SAA15963@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk Daniel M German twisted -wrongly-- the bytes to say: Daniel> Hi Elisabeth, Toby> Hi Christie, Toby> That's an interesting point.... Toby> Are you saying that "curvaceous" panels are inherantly stronger...? Daniel> Yes, they are. There are some high mathematics and structural analysis Daniel> behind the reason. But easiest way I can exemplify this is the Daniel> following. The material of the egg shell is very weak, but when it Daniel> s the shape of an egg, it becomes very, very strong. It is Daniel> particularly stronger from the outside towards the inside. The same Daniel> design principle is applied in architecture --archs, rotundas and the Daniel> like. I think that I jumped just too fast... I noticed after I read my reply again and followed the thread back that we were talking about panels, not 3 dimensional objects. Charlie, with his "door-hinge" analogy gave a much, much better answer. -- Daniel M. German "One person will bear with dissent in matters of church government, John Stuart Mill -> but not of dogma" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 21:09:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eagle.ca!glass From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stepping Stone molds: a comment Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:45:02 -0400 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi Shirley, Don't blame your stained glass retailer. The stepping stone molds are made by the same companies who make the patterns and tables to fit them. They are very expensive for the retailer to buy, and that is what gets passed on to you as a customer. The same goes for lampbases, diamondcrete, and some books. I am a retailer and the prices I have to pay for these items has always annoyed me, but what can we do? We can't sell it for less than we pay. Sarah >It has always annoyed me, that stepping stone molds are so expensive at >stained glass stores. >This annoyance has escalated recently with the realization that a >plastic wheelbarrow(much stronger and design far more intricate) can be >purchased for the same price as a 14" dia. stepping stone mold. Hmmmm? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 22:21:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:33:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: balloch@netbridge.net Subject: Re: Stepping Stone molds: a comment Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:32:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.203248.0> References: <<1998May22.61731.0>> Precedence: bulk Shirley, This kind of thing used to both bother and puzzle me, but I have come to understand through our own business experiences in publishing that the stained glass industry sells to a rather limited audience in the vast scheme of things. When the maker of that wheelbarrow pays to have tooling done to mold the thing, he can count on many thousands of gardeners and builders to buy them for years to come, helping him to amortize the cost of the tooling. Stained glass has many fewer devotees and they can be rather fickle at that! Today it's stepping stones. Two years from today they may not be able to give the molds away. We just got in molds for little boxes in a variety of shapes. We have to sell them for about $8.00. These things could just as easily been the packaging for a stereo.....stuff you throw away after unpacking the product, but they are the product. I feel like apologising every time I have to tell someone the price, (and often do), but that's just what they have to cost. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Fri, 22 May 1998 13:17:31 -0700 Shirley Balloch writes: >It has always annoyed me, that stepping stone molds are so expensive >at >stained glass stores. >This annoyance has escalated recently with the realization that a >plastic wheelbarrow(much stronger and design far more intricate) can >be >purchased for the same price as a 14" dia. stepping stone mold. >Hmmmm? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 22:40:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:33:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Subject: Re: dremel tool Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:20:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.202031.0> References: <<1998May22.155136.0>> Precedence: bulk It may be true that Dremel makes the tools for Sears, but that does not necessarily make them comparable quality. Sears contracts many manufacturers to produce tools TO THEIR SPECIFICATIONS. Two drills may look identical, but the version that says Sears on the side may be made with brass bushings while the name brand tool is made with ball bearings. Be sure to carefully read and compare the tools specifications (motor size, amperage, rpm, etc.) and warrantees. Some Sears tools are just as good, others may not be. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs www.dodgestudio.com >According to what the sales guy at a Sears hardware store told me, >Dremel >makes the Sears brand. If that's true, it's just a case of finding out >who's got it cheaper... > > >Sparks _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 22:49:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:36:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: "Daniel M. German" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Molds from other sources Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:30:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May22.203011.0> References: <<199805230238.WAA00310@violeta.uwaterloo.ca>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Shirley, Do you have a 'Wal-Mart', K-Mart, or other such big discount stores in your area??? Look through the kitchen equipment section for Sterlite or Rubbermaid items. Sometimes these make great molds, some can be cut off if too deep, and some of the unusual shapes are great for special items. Just a thought, when I am shopping, and looking at shapes, I think of all sorts of things (other than the original intent) of different items. Also Home Depot type stores have pre-made flagstones in many shapes, and you can use them as a base for mosaic grouted work. In this area abut $1.50 each. You don't have to mix tons of cement when you use these. And don't forget garage sales and flea markets. I have a great wrought iron table base for some tile work ( one of these days) for 50cents. It was an Aquarium stand. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 22 23:05:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 21:55:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: stepping stone molds. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:52:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May22.145224.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I didn't mean to insult the retailers in this group. Actually my annoyance is with the manufacturers. I understand about supply and demand. It just doesn't compute for me, when a small business in Portland(I am asuming they are small) makes essentially the same thing in potted plant drip catchers, for this area(again I am assuming) vs the manufacturer who has the molds nationally, and he(the drip catcher manufacturer) can sell his for $2.79. I mean even if the cost were $10, I probably would buy in the stained glass store, just so I wouldn't have to run around looking for a make do. They have probably priced themsleves out of business. My thoughts. Didn't want to start a war. Just when I saw that wheelbarrow on sale, it struct me. I mean I do 10 stones at a time and have always used the drip catchers. One bag of cement makes three 14" dia. stones. Who would go to all the trouble(for resale that is)and mess one stone at a time? And who could afford to purchase that many stones? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 07:52:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 06:37:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on displaying work Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:34:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May23.53429.0> References: <<1998May22.112111.0>> Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > I have fallen in love with flight into fantasy's double pack > hummingbirds. > They are a good seller and I have them in a shop on the bayfront in a > south window. The hummingbirds are 60% lead. They have a wing span of > maybe 4 inches. Only the wings are glass. > Halogen light makes them light up beautifully, but it is hot and > dangerous. They seem to need light right up on them. This of course > makes display in a window difficult. > We have them hanging from an open wired corner plant stand(great at Rite > Aid for $19.95(no stock here either)). It has 3 shelves(open), is 5 ft. > tall and is pie shaped with outside circle maybe 18" wide. > We flooded it with a halogen work light and that was great. But the > housing gets way too hot to be safe. > We need a cheap(pardon me, economical) way to light this up, esp. in the > window, and in the store too. > It seems to need light both from the bottom and the top. Of course > light behind would shine out into the customers faces. > Maybe it is the fact that the shelves are all open so the light can > disperse more. > Guess we need one of those display cases that are white top and bottom > and have a locked door. > Anybody doing these, we just added a neat feature. I met up with a lady > who does bead work and she beaded(in fine glass beads)strings to hang > the hummers from. Really made the effect great. But added to the > lighting problem. > Any and all advice greatly appreciated. > Shirley B > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i would try using "lipstick halogens". they still are kind of hot, but they give quite a bit of light. but fairly direct. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 08:26:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 07:10:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: HELP! Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 10:09:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May23.6928.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Dorothy: >This seems to me geometrically impssible...(If you can see what I've underlined in the quote above.0 There will have to be a break in either the vertical or horizonal direction...< Yes, yes, there will have to be a break somewhere. It's your choice as to whether to do the break on the horizontal or the vertical direction. But my point is that there should be at least one line which goes all the way from one part of the frame to the other. Let's say you choose to run the long frame-to-frame line horizontally. Then have a long vertical line, cut it in two to accommodate the long frame-to-frame horizontal reinforcement line. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 08:46:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 07:11:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Glass layering Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 10:09:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May23.6922.0> Precedence: bulk There is an excellent article (if I do say so myself, since I wrote it!) about glass layering as practiced by Robert Oddy. It's titled "Robert Oddy: Stained Glass Plating Techniques" (lecture at Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass) and is published in the Fall 1997 issue of the International Guild of Glass Artists (IGGA) "Common Ground:GLASS" magazine. Want a copy? Email me privately at Ensembles@Compuserve.com. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 09:17:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 07:52:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: arrakis.es!fbp From: Francisco Barranco To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9E249B0EEEDC680B16785933" Subject: remove list Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:49:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr15.94945.0> Precedence: bulk Este es un mensaje multipartes en formato MIME. --------------9E249B0EEEDC680B16785933 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please remove me from the list. Thank you --------------9E249B0EEEDC680B16785933 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: owner-glass@daver.bungi.com Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2]) by mx1.landsraad.net (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA03979 for ; Fri, 22 May 1998 16:26:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DU63vie From: DU63vie To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: list Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:40:02 EDT Message-ID: <1998May22.13402.0> Precedence: bulk Please remove me from the list. Thank you ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --------------9E249B0EEEDC680B16785933 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Tarjeta de Francisco Barranco Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Francisco Barranco n: Barranco;Francisco email;internet: fbp@arrakis.es x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------9E249B0EEEDC680B16785933-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 10:24:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 08:54:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Reinforcement Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:52:40 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980523115238.006c7d44@mail.bright.net> Precedence: bulk >Yes, yes, there will have to be a break somewhere. It's your >choice as to whether to do the break on the horizontal or >the vertical direction. But my point is that there should be >at least one line which goes all the way from one part of the >frame to the other. Let's say you choose to run the long >frame-to-frame line horizontally. Then have a long vertical >line, cut it in two to accommodate the long frame-to-frame >horizontal reinforcement line. > >Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles I'm not sure how much extra this does for the reinforcement, but when I run my verticals that will break because the horizontals are the entire length...I tie in the verticals by running them an inch or two along the horizontal lines. That way it seems as though the strength carries through the vertical as well. Am I right on this or just fooling myself? Garden of Glass Joyce Moran Ohio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 12:26:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:08:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio#22 Sue Reitmann Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:04:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May23.8422.0> Precedence: bulk Many may have heard of Gino Pullucchi, (the Chun-King giant), Kevin McHale, (Boston Celtics) Bobby Zimmerman, aka, Bob Dylan, (the Rock star), but probably weren't aware that they were all from a town about 100 miles South of Canada, Hibbing, Minnesota. In the 40's & 50's Hibbing was known as the Iron Mining capitol of the world. In 1940 that is where I was born and raised. Don't do the math, I'm 58. I did all the wonderful things kids did then, when the streets were safe and you walked just about anywhere you wanted to go. School was OK. I did just enough to keep my parents happy. My first love, you see, was ice skating and spent every moment at the rink. I use to get up at 4:00am, walk to the ice arena, and practice every day before school. I so desperately wanted to be a professional skater. ( my parents had other ideas however; and when I graduated in 1958.....(our 40th. class reunion is this summer.) I was sent off to the University of Iowa, in Iowa City. ) To leave skating and my second love, "the boy-friend" was a heart-ache at the time.) That first summer home from college was my way out of the college scene. I didn't like it and I remember my Father teasing me that he was sure I was majoring in "river-banking" because my grades were nothing a parent wanted to brag about. To make a long story short, I dated the "town hero" and married him that October. ( often wonder what happened to the first boyfriend that I thought I couldn't live without when I got sent to college!) From that marriage I got three wonderful children and a divorce. I then moved to Minneapolis, MN where I got my first "real" job, working in the cosmetic dept. at Daytons. Thinking back, how I raised 3 young children making $2.75 an hour is still a mystery to me. Daytons provided more than a salary for me. You see, that is where I met my best friend and current husband who came there to purchase perfume for some one else! We just celebrated our 25th.wedding anniversary. Out of what I thought at the time to be a tragedy I would not recover from, came something very, special. Ed had 2 children, so now we ventured off to do the his and mine thing, but there were no "ours", 5 was enough. In 1990 we started thinking of where we wanted to be in 1998 when Ed retired. Not wanting to adjust to relocating and retiring all at once we moved to Tucson, Arizona, a town we had fallen in love with while on a vacation. The only good thing about that move was the stained glass class I took . I thought this was a good alternative to a Psychiatrist. Never in my life had I been so miserable or lonesome, to say nothing of the heat!!!! I had always admired the work I had seen throughout our many travels where I had to be dragged from the cathedrals and chapels. With the nagging of a neighbor I agreed to try it. The rest is history. I was hooked the moment I put the cutter to the glass and heard my first score. My instructor was an "old-timer" and a wonderful man. He must have seen something in me that I was unaware of at the time. After the class sessions were over, he allowed me to come to his shop every day and hang-out, sometimes working on a project, other times just sitting absorbing all that can happen in a day at a studio/retail store. I even got to clean all of his grinders :) It is impossible to tell what all I learned there, a dream every student must have, and a gift that I will forever be grateful for. In 1995 we were fortunate to leave Tucson and move back to Minneapolis where we purchased a 100 yr. old farm house. Another dream came true. Now I don't know what will happen first, bankruptcy or death from all the time, money and effort it has taken. The best part is it is on an acre of land and I had my own studio built. My original idea was to convert a caboose but the city said "No Way!" I like others in the group, have suffered some losses lately. First the death of my beloved Mother and 18 months later, my only sibling and brother died at age 52. Then my sister-in-law passes away. My studio and my family have been a great support to me and I am coming around........finally. I have been dealing with some major health problems as well, but that too shall pass, I hope! Ed finally retired, it only took 2 months to get bored, so now he has a full time job at half time pay. Another addiction: Genealogy of the "Sherman" family from England. Other interests in the past: Sewing, home decorating, needlepoint, gardening, birds and I am an avid reader. Other jobs: group facilitator for woman's support group. Day coordinator for psychiatrist office, market research field supervisor. God's greatest gift to me: My Husband, My children and 5 grandchildren. I also cherish a life of 19 years of recovery from alcoholism, but I still smoke, I know, I'm trying to stop that nasty habit and I may be successful some day. My pets: Maxwell, a spoiled Maltese dog, Tibetan, a Himalayan cat, and Boots The Terrible, my brothers alley cat. Thanks to the Rands for the glass group and all the time members devote to it. When it is quiet I go into withdrawal. A special thanks to Barefoot Daniel for the gallery. In my next life I might get to be that professional skater! Sue Reitmann Artistry In Glass Shorewood, MN oddjob@scc.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 12:48:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:09:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: "Michael J. Greer" Subject: C R Mackintosh Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:11:46 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May23.181146.0> References: <<1998May20.10352.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Dani, In message <1998May20.10352.0@?>, "Michael J. Greer" writes >I love Charles Rennie Macintosh's = > >work - I'm getting greener by the >second! Come to think of it, I've >never been able to locate a really >good book on his glass work - did >he not do enough glass to warrant >a book on the subject? Any info >on the subject is appreciated. > Mackintosh did not do a lot of glass. That which is attributed to him is listed in the books on his architecture and interior design. It is known that he also designed some windows for a Glasgow firm, Guthrie and Well, but the windows have not been identified. Michael Donnelly (who has recently published a book on Scottish glass (The Stationery Office, Edinburgh) is the one who knows most about this. Two books to start you off are: "The Mackintosh style, decor and design" by Elizabeth Wilhide. Pavilion Books, 1995. ISBN 1 85793 965 4 "Charles Rennie Mackintosh" by Anthony Jones. Studio Editions, 1990. ISBN 1 85170 412 4 Oh yes, there is a nice little pamphlet too - "Charles Rennie MAckintosh" published for the Glasgow School of Art by Richard Drew Publishing, 1987. ISBN 0 86267 191 4 Enjoy! Steve ps. just found Michael Donnelly's book: Scotland's Stained Glass; Making the Colours Sing. The Stationery Office, Edinburgh, 1997. ISBN 0 11 495793 2 -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 13:00:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:09:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: "Daniel M. German" Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:24:30 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May23.182430.0> References: <<199805210507.BAA00283@ppp08.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Daniel, Did Tiffany actually work with copper foil? I'd understood it was with lead foil. Steve. In message <199805210507.BAA00283@ppp08.uwaterloo.ca>, "Daniel M. German" writes > >Michael J Greer twists the bytes to say: > > Michael> 1. What was Tiffany's greatest contribution > Michael> to stained glass? To art? > >I think that without doubt the answer is copper foil. .......... -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 13:23:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:22:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio# 23 David (from UK) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:16:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May23.81631.0> Precedence: bulk OK You win.. I was born on 1st March 1953 in Croydon (Part of London now, was in Surrey). Brought up first in Clapham Comon and then Peckham in South east London. Attended a catholic primary school in Peckham and then a Secondary Boys School in Clapham. Took my GCE's and then Joined BP Shipping as a Ships Engineer Cadet (Training Engineer Officer) qualifying in 1974. >From 1974 to 1981 I was an Engineering officer on Deep sea tankers visiting various places. I also got married in 1974 to Marian In 1981 I moved to coastal tankers wanting to be home a bit more and found myself in a position of not being able to get any further qualified than I already was (for those technicaly minded this was due to the main engine power output being too small) I had obtained my Class 2 Certificate of competency but couldn't study along these lines any further. Thus decided to study for an Open University (OU) degree. This led to me being asked to take a job in BP's head office as a technical administrator, which I did. As part of my degree I started to study computing due to the amount creeping into engineering. Then when an opening in the IT department appeared did a change of career away from engineering into computing which finally ended with my degree in computing. Stayed with BP until 1994 when I was made redundant. During my final year with BP I stared to undertake a teacher training program through the OU and completed this gaining a PGCE in Technology in 1995. Eventually got offered a computer support roll with the University of Luton in 1996 where I have stayed up until now, but am actively looking for a new job due to lack of income in the educational establishments of the UK. Glass: Fist got interested in 1995 when unemployed and took a course in Stained glass and leaded lites at a local evening class (I also did one in silversmithing and jewlery making) these were to increase my technology skills so I could add to what was being taught as technology in schools. Until very recently I have not committed myself to making anything due to other constraints but have lurked with the intention of gaining knowledge from all you enthusiasts. Although I do have quite a few windows in my house destined for conversions. Luckily my brother who has done a bit of work has just moved to Spain and left me loads of glass including some very nice 17th century Duch clear handmade glass which as yet have no idea what to do with. Other facts: Married to Marian (who is wife, mum, cook, taxidriver and also works for the Ambulance service), with 5 children (yes 5!!) Rachel (20) who's at Essex University and wants to be a forensic Scientist, Lousia (18) doing her A Levels and wants to work in Robotics for Jim Henson or other special effects companies, Andrew (15) who wants to be a formula 1 mechanic, Eleanor (8) who I'm sure is destined for the stage, and Gabrielle (15 months) who hasn't told me what she wants to do yet. david.outram@luton.ac.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 15:48:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 13:47:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 04:53:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199805232118.RAA09898@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Did Tiffany actually work with copper foil? I'd understood it was with > lead foil. It was copper foil, Steve. Lead is far too soft to be useful as a foil. Say, I see you're from Scotland. My wife and I just got back from two weeks in the Glasgow, Inverary, Isle of Arran area. Great people, great food (really! even haggis!) and, of course, superlative scenery. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 16:11:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 14:42:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Molds from other sources and other stuff Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805232142.OAA10446@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk No offend to retailers and manufactors, But it is with great disgust, that I watch from the background to see the industry progress. Catching the eye of the unaware. Many products made for the industry are over priced and should not be allowed. Someone down the line has figured this is a good thing... let's make the $$$ As it is with much in the market... it's buyer beware!! This bungi line is a interconnecting source of many who have been around of many years and many products were not available at that time, and should be a world of knowledge. To me... if I can produce from it's beginning, using my know how of "what it is" used to be, makes me feel that I've truely become the artist. Much comments have been made, and there's a difference... many are new, that need to be taught. But that makes no difference, in my mind. I shall not and want not to teach what it is... to simplify the old that attracted me in the beginning. A certain pet "piss me off" is the subject of molds for cementing stands as such, One only has to look at the garden store and see things priced lower. Tell me if you can, why? Manufactors see this industry differently and that is truely a line of "BS". Who judges what.... is truely the question? Shall we not judge our own? And price accordenly (sp)? It is with such saddness, but such is true. The bottom line on this issuse... is us! Retailers have the option to say no, give me something realistic... you are way out of range!!! and tell them what it is. One man's (woman's) opinion. Cindy.... and still smiles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 18:09:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 16:03:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: norway.it.earthlink.net!nousers From: nousers@earthlink.net To: yuall@norway.it.earthlink.net Subject: The Affordable Dental Plan Date: Sat, 23 May 98 18:00:39 EST Message-ID: <1998May23.23039.0> Precedence: bulk Click here to get info on a very affordable dental/optical plan Type or copy and paste the following address into your browser if your email is not html capable: http://209.84.246.119/opk/dental1.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 20:03:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 18:09:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: alewis@vgernet.net Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:08:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May23.17835.0> References: <<199805232118.RAA09898@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert, Back circa 1970 they used to sell lead foil at Bendheim in NYC . I thought about tinkering with it but didn't see the point in it. Just harder to solder without melting the foil, I figured. Interestingly, I am currently restoring a very old lampshade that I suspect was done with lead foil, as when I melt the solder around broken pieces, there is nothing left of the foil. It is possible that the foil was originally copper and all oxidized away though, because the lamp was stored in a wet basement for many years. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Sat, 23 May 1998 04:53:50 +0000 "Albert Lewis" writes: > >> Did Tiffany actually work with copper foil? I'd understood it was >with >> lead foil. > >It was copper foil, Steve. Lead is far too soft to be useful as a >foil. Say, I see you're from Scotland. My wife and I just got back >from two weeks in the Glasgow, Inverary, Isle of Arran area. Great >people, great food (really! even haggis!) and, of course, superlative >scenery. > >Albert > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 21:07:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 19:13:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: Kris To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on displaying work Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:11:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May23.18119.0> References: <<1998May22.112111.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk We have replaced most of our light bulbs with florescent ones. They cost more but use less energy and they are cool to the touch, also last a very long time. I don't know if florescent lights would work in your display but I thought it might be worth a mention. I think you can also get them in different light tones (eg more pink) if you don't like that "office" atmosphere. Kris Shirley Balloch wrote: > > I have fallen in love with flight into fantasy's double pack > hummingbirds. > They are a good seller and I have them in a shop on the bayfront in a > south window. The hummingbirds are 60% lead. They have a wing span of > maybe 4 inches. Only the wings are glass. > Halogen light makes them light up beautifully, but it is hot and > dangerous. They seem to need light right up on them. This of course > makes display in a window difficult. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 23 23:58:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 22:14:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp22.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: gallery --"curator" is on "vacation" Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 01:13:04 -0400 Message-ID: <199805240513.BAA00632@ppp22.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Hi everybody, My endeavors take me this Tuesday to cross the globe. My destination: gay Rio de Janeiro and surroundings. I'll be presenting my work in a conference next week. Please, do not send me any submissions until I come back. My little machine (aries27) is not able to handle too much mail. ONce I come back I'll also address my growing "todo list" * the question on how to link the gallery to the pages of people who already have pages at the AGGA. * archives --plenty of ideas, but we'll see, we need "executioners", the gallery can keep me busy for a while. And it also depends on Glenna, because I consider the archives to be bungi's property. * my experiences with my first round lamp --it's finished and ugly and by _no_ means compares to the lamps some people in Bungi make, (Howard, when you say that it takes you 2 hours to complete 2 lamps, you don't mean 200 hundred pieces lamps, do you? If so it feel depressing :) but it might have interesting info for people who have never attempted one (I'am still waiting for my Porcelli book :( And to our fellow Bungians in the USA, enjoy Memorial day. -- Daniel M. German "Beauty is the first test; there is no permanent place in the world for ugly G. H. Hardy -> mathematics." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 00:38:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 23 May 1998 23:11:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp22.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:ARCHIVES Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:09:52 -0400 Message-ID: <199805240609.CAA00711@ppp22.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805212331_MC2-3DD7-7A36@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, Dani> Daniel- Dani> On another matter, she mentioned being Dani> an IGGA member, as am I and numerous Dani> others on bungi, and we have a *free page Dani> available to us that Albert Lewis sets up. Dani> Perhaps we could have a link from your Dani> site to the IGGA page? Or is that a great Dani> deal of trouble? Also, for those of us I can make a page of people and then link to their work in the local gallery or to IGGA, no problem. Dani> without scanners and with limited computer Dani> capabilities, may we snail-mail a photo to Dani> add to your gallery? Please let me know. I'd like to ask for a volunteer that will take this job. I am terrible procrastinator and I know I'd do a lousy job on this. Any takers? Dani> Best regards, Dani> Dani Greer Dani> Greer Gallery & STudios Dani> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ -- Daniel M. German "Poetry is as exact a science Gustave Flaubert -> as geometry" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 05:50:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 04:33:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: dremel tool Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 04:32:31 -0700 Message-ID: <199805241132.EAA13264@ark.com> Precedence: bulk Howdy gang.....I don't know who has the 'better one' so-to-speak, but I have never had a problem with my Dremel, But Sears (actually, they use the brandname 'Craftsman', Guarrantees them for life. I have heard of people who have taken tools back to them after many years and had them replaced without batting an eye. May be something to consider if that is of interest. ....Wayne >>It may be true that Dremel makes the tools for Sears, but that does not >>necessarily make them comparable quality. >> >>Sears contracts many manufacturers to produce tools TO THEIR >>SPECIFICATIONS. >> >>Two drills may look identical, but the version that says Sears on the >>side may be made with brass bushings while the name brand tool is made >>with ball bearings. ..............>>>>>>>>>> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 06:13:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 04:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: art/craft/lamps/Tiffany Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:58:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199805241225.IAA08835@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > quite annoying. At any rate, I think one can > truthfully say that many of Tiffany's windows > were a combination of lead and copperfoil > and that the design of the window dictated > whether one or both was used. Correct? Hi Dani, Right you are. You have to remember that Duncan was *really in the business of *selling works like Tiffany's (he worked for Christies for a while, but mostly for himself), so there's a large underlying agenda at work in his case (and others). But "leaded glass" is also an overall generic term referring to bits of glass in a metal matrix. Even windows constructed entirely with zinc came would be correctly if not accurately called "leaded glass," even if that's misleading. Which reminds me. A hundred years ago, "art glass" referred to stained glass by the yard from sources like Sears Roebuck. Now it refers to high-end work. English is a flexible, changeable language that goes with the flow, you might say. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 06:39:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 04:55:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: gallery --"curator" is on "vacation" Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:58:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199805241225.IAA08843@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > * the question on how to link the gallery to the pages of people who > already have pages at the AGGA. Isn't this a duplication of effort? Members of IGGA already *have a list of their sites, whether created by IGGA (meaning myself) or by others. It's at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm Have fun in Rio, Daniel! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 07:15:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 05:32:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: iname.com!alpas From: "-" To: "Stained Glass list" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Resin technology Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:30:44 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May24.33044.0> Precedence: bulk Hello, Ms PJ No it is not the overlay technique you described. That seems very good to your business, as it brings to u many clients. I did not knew that process. It seems more suitable for a childrens class in pre-school... I called it resin, but I really dont know its composition. I had a course in Japan at my former supplier and they where very misterious. They called it "polymers" and told it is an industrial secret (!). One of the products makes the "lead" lines. It is a liquid that becomes very hard and adhesive when exposed to ultra-violet light. A complicated process is used to make a full-sized negative film (also sensible to UV light, developed in water at a very precise temperature) and "print" the lines over any kind of glass (yes, full size, only 1 glass) using the UV light. This creates the lines as walls 1.5 or 2mm high, any widht. They are transparent and must be darkened (grey or black) with another product that consists of 2 polymers (?) that after being mixed become hard in about 40 minutes inside a surface oven (60C). Next, the areas must be filled with another 2 reacting products (liquids) carefully weighted and mixed. Color pigments are included (mineral origin, I suppose, because organic ones would not resist to the tests described bellow), and any hue/saturation in color can be calibrated. This takes a few hours to become hard. We can half-mix several colors, as a painter would creating beautifull effects. For the sake of my reputation and my clients satisfation I made some aging tests, though I had the results of tests made by some Japanese labs. My results where remarcable: I hv a friend that is chief of a laboratory in a famous paint manufacturer. They hv a oven with a special lamp that simulates the sun composition and use it for testing their outdoor inks. They usually test it for 8 minutes. We tested our glasses for 2 hours and there was no change of color except for a small darkening in the yellow pallete. We also tested sun/rain and cold/heat cycles. Also tested acid washing, earth and water immersion, ultra-sonic and infra-sonic vibrations, freezing, and there was no damage at all.... The only small damage was made with a strong knife using all my muscle. Naturally, the glass base can be broken, but it will stay in its place and water-proof, thanks to the strong adhesive properties. Now I'm using other similar products from another supplier that are much easier to use. Do not require UV light, the process is more simple, clean and quick and the result is more pleasant to touch and see. I made a small company and enjoy good success even in areas of traditional lead technique as cathedrals and convents. This post is becoming too big, so I will leave to another day to describe what *I think* are the advantages of polymer technology. Meanwhile I would appreciate yours (and/or others) comments. Bye Luis Sousa alpas@iname.com *Ah.....I guess this one is to me. *Sorry Luis, I forgot to sign my name. *And it is Ms. X. *And I am far from anonymous. *I was uncertain when you said resin whether you meant what *is used here in the United States as Stained Glass Overlay. *I don't think you will find anyone on this list that uses *this method it you are speaking of Overlay. *To answer your first question.........no our studio does *not use this method *if you are speaking of the Overlay. We replace alot of it *with traditional *stained glass because of unhappy clients *who assume that they are purchasing traditional stained *glass and once it is installed find themselves with Overlay. *A very big problem of misleading clients. *If this is not the same process you are speaking about I am *curious as to what it is you do with resin. *The Overlay process here is done with sheets of plastic *that are cut and laid over one *piece of glass that is the size of the finished work.. *Even the leadlines are plastic. *I don't think a master of traditional stained glass would *work in Overlay. *my best, *pj >Ok Mr X, lets chat !!!!!!!!!! >I'd like to know with who I'm talking to and I'd suggest >that u sign your messages. This is not an anonymous list >!!!!!!!!!!!!! >My initial post asked for people who uses the mentioned >technology. Do u use it? >I really would like to meet people who does. Though I use >it for some 6 years, it seems still quite new and unknown. >I would like to have a comparative opinion of somebody who >understands and masters both this and traditional >technologies, I mean advantages and disadvantages of each >one. >Regards, >Luis >alpas@iname.com > > > > >+ ah??? do you mean stained glass overlay???? >+ I would love to chat with >+ you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > >>I use polymer resin materials for stained glass. >>I'd like to 'talk' to people who uses this kind of >>technology and exchange some experiences and points of >view. >> >>Luis Sousa >>Portugal ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 08:58:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 08:03:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mb.sympatico.ca!mb.sympatico.ca From: Darlene Hendler To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: (no subject) Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:00:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May24.308.0> Precedence: bulk please remove me for the summer. Thanks! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 09:29:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 08:11:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp19.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: gallery --"curator" is on "vacation" Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 11:10:45 -0400 Message-ID: <199805241510.LAA00857@ppp19.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805241225.IAA08843@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi Albert, Albert Lewis twisted the bytes to say: >> * the question on how to link the gallery to the pages of people who >> already have pages at the AGGA. Albert> Isn't this a duplication of effort? Members of IGGA already *have a Albert> list of their sites, whether created by IGGA (meaning myself) or by Albert> others. It's at Albert> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm The main reason I decided to start it was that those of us who are not members of IGGA did not have a place to show our work. Some don't even have a web page at all. It is indeed duplication, so we might want to be able to list the bungi members in a more comprehensive listings (Gallery, IGGA and other Web addresses). Albert> Have fun in Rio, Daniel! Thanks a lot, I'll certainly do my best :) Albert> Albert Albert> ---- Albert> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com Albert> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Albert> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Daniel M. German "The "people" who exercise the power, are not always the same people with those over whom John Stuart Mill -> it is exercised." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 11:05:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 10:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: cost of stepping stone molds Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:20:14 -0700 Message-ID: <199805241720.KAA05417@norm.island.net> Precedence: bulk So here's the thing Shirley...there's more to this than supply and demand, there's also economics of scale and risk. When dealing with plastics manufacturing a specific mold has to be made for the item...be it a drip catcher or a stepping stone mold. I have looked into having custom plastics work done when I was in a different business, and was told that the cost to tool up for a production of oyster trays would be minimum $10,000 (that was 12 years ago). Then think about how many drip catchers would be sold vs. stepping stone molds...more people grow plants than make stepping stones. Therefore a smaller fraction of the tool-up cost would be amortized by each drip catcher sold. So, maybe 20 cents of a drip catcher price goes to startup cost, vs. perhaps $10 for a dedicated stepping stone mold (theses are hypothetical costs only for this example). In other words, each purchaser of a stepping stone mold pays a larger share of the original start up costs. The manufacturer also is taking a larger risk making something for a specialized market, and would include that risk in his profit margin. It's just the way business works... My prices for large spec items to be sold at shows are higher than doing similar custom orders...why you ask? Because I am taking more risk than filling a custom order...the piece may not sell for perhaps a year or 2, during which time the costs of my time and the glass are tied up in that item. Again, that's just the way business works. Cheers Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative (who doesn't work for any manufacturer, but can empathize with the fact that they're running a business...although when I experimented with stepping stones I blanched at the cost of molds and went elsewhere). >I didn't mean to insult the retailers in this group. Actually my >annoyance is with the manufacturers. >I understand about supply and demand. It just doesn't compute for me, >when a small business in Portland(I am asuming they are small) makes >essentially the same thing in potted plant drip catchers, for this ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 15:11:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 14:05:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: globalnet.co.uk!aareg From: "Tony Regan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: PUZZ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:42:39 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May24.134239.0> Precedence: bulk I may be wrong in beginning to assume that the group is fast becoming "puzz" instead of "bungi". After coming back from a wonderful week in Paris, my mail is full of "puzz", and bickering. When I first came across bungi, courtesy of Elizabeth, I was very keen and pleased to find a group that was monitored and not full of spam, and related to one of our great interests. So - SuZan - please moderate and respond in the way most expect with genuine questions or contributions. Perhaps it would be better if your glass enthusiasts from AOL joined the group, which would invite more varied contributions and save you the need to speak for others. Thanks to PJ for the Paris glass sights - Saint Chappelle & the Musee D'Orsee were fantastic - also the wonderful dome in Galleries Layfayette. Regards to all Tony & Barbara Regan Cornwall UK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 15:46:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 14:37:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: dremel tool Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 17:37:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May24.13375.0> Precedence: bulk Ditto what Wayne said about the Sears Craftsman tools. In fact, we often buy refurbished power equipment and their very liberal return policy seems to apply to that equipment, too. Can't beat it! We've had tremendously good luck and saved a bundle. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 16:21:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 14:38:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "-" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Resin technology Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 17:36:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May24.133657.0> Precedence: bulk Dear Luis- Thank you for sharing information about polymers. However, after = reading your interesting essay, I have to wonder how it relates to the art of = creating stained glass. Yes, perhaps = there is some similarity of appearance. But, a piece of computer art can be created to have the effect of a fine oil painting also. Is the joy of creation the same for the artist when he paints an oil or manipulates the image on the computer screen? No, the experience is vastly different! I know because I have done both. The experience of rendering a piece of computer art will never be the same to me as the process of painting an oil. I want to smell the paint, see it under my fingernails, feel it as it slides onto the canvas. And, likewise, when I work in glass, I want to hear that score, and feel a good break, and I absolutely love the = smell of my studio after cementing a few windows! I am an artist and making art is an experiential process. And the end result is unique - nothing (including = polymer) sparkles like glass when the light pours through it. It is a magnificent medium. Pure magic. Why settle for second best? Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 18:18:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 16:52:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Michael J. Greer" , "-" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Resin technology Date: Sun, 24 May 98 19:50:30 -0400 Message-ID: <199805242348.TAA16159@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Dani wrote: >The experience of >rendering a piece of computer art will >never be the same to me as the process >of painting an oil. I want to smell the >paint, see it under my fingernails, feel >it as it slides onto the canvas. And, >likewise, when I work in glass, I want >to hear that score, and feel a good >break, and I absolutely love the >smell of my studio after cementing >a few windows! I am an artist and making >art is an experiential process. And the end >result is unique - nothing (including >polymer) sparkles like glass when the >light pours through it. It is a magnificent >medium. Pure magic. Why settle for second >best? Amen! Well said, Dani! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 19:46:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 18:31:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: jennie french book Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:13:23 +1000 Message-ID: <1998May25.211323.0> Precedence: bulk hi Michael J. Greer the book "How to design stained glass with 84 patterns " by Jenni French is available from our catalogue for $AU15.40 + postage (recommended retail price is $AU23.70) (all price quoted in australian dollars) please contact us directly Harlequin Leadlight Home page http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 19:52:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 18:32:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: lighting displays Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:45:06 +1000 Message-ID: <1998May25.20456.0> Precedence: bulk i found some info on backlighting in "Contemporary stained glass" by Andrew Moore On page 140 Chapter: Practicalities - Lighting - Backlighting "...Fluorescent tubes are most commonly used....some form of diffusion screen is required to spread the light....benefit from a curved plaster wall behind..." Harlequin Leadlight Home page http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 24 20:07:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 24 May 1998 18:32:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: reinforcement Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:00:47 +1000 Message-ID: <1998May25.21047.0> Precedence: bulk hi Christie and Tobi once again i would refer to the Jennie French book "How to design stained glass wit 84 patterns" On page 122 to 128 she discusses reinforcement of panels. I also think a panel with curves is potentialy stronger. think of a pattern made up of horizontal bands only and it would fold like an accordion as soon as it's up in the frame. The interlocking pieces in a pattern of curves gives it some rigidity but some reinforcing might still be needed depending on the size of course. Harlequin Leadlight Home page http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 05:40:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 05:01:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: The string in the Morton Safety Break system. Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 19:44:19 +0800 Message-ID: <1998May26.34419.0> Precedence: bulk Some one help. Could not for the life of me figure out the purpose of the string in the Morton safety break system. oes any one know what it is for? Shakeel Abedi shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 06:13:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 05:36:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re: jennie french book Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 20:43:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199805251310.JAA16781@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > the book "How to design stained glass with 84 patterns " by Jenni French is > available from our catalogue for $AU15.40 + postage (recommended retail > price is $AU23.70) > (all price quoted in australian dollars) Ouch! That'd be $9.73 in US dollars, plus shipping. From Amazon.com it's only $7.16 which is $1.79 off its $8.95 list price. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 07:15:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 06:43:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Reinforcement Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:28:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May25.52846.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by glasschic >I tie in the verticals by running them an inch or two along the horizontal lines. That way it seems as though the strength carries throu= gh the vertical as well. Am I right on this or just fooling myself?< Sounds great to me! Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 07:51:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 07:17:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Molds from other sources Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:15:17 EDT Message-ID: <1998May25.141517.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-23 01:50:12 EDT, you write: > Do you have a 'Wal-Mart', K-Mart, or other such big discount stores in > your area??? and Target they all have a Round plastic tray like thing (comes in weird colors) that they call canape trays. I have used them and they work great. they are about 2" deep. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 08:22:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 07:59:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: dremel tool Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:58:05 EDT Message-ID: <1998May25.14585.0> Precedence: bulk Gary Dodge made a very good point a couple of days ago: > It may be true that Dremel makes the tools for Sears, but > that does not necessarily make them comparable quality. > > [...] > > Some Sears tools are just as good, others may not be. You're right. OTOH, in 25 years of buying tools (and before that, having grown up in a very "handy" family), I've never had a bad experience with Sears Craftsman. I have had a few power tools from other makers die premature deaths on me though. Sears does (or at least used to) carry a "Companion" line that isn't built to the same specs and is somewhat less expensive, but I've never used them. My folks taught me to buy as close to top of the line as you can afford, it's worth it in the long run. More power!!!!!! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 08:53:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 08:21:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "Shakeel Abedi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: The string in the Morton Safety Break system. Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:11:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May25.171153.0> Precedence: bulk I use it to hang around my neck and keep it the breaker handy. Sometimes I think I'll use to hang myself after screwing up an inside curve. Patrick Roses and Rainbows PS How about a bio Shaklee. Send it to me personally at pkelly@n-link.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 09:22:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 08:33:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Shakeel Abedi" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: The string in the Morton Safety Break system. Date: Mon, 25 May 98 11:31:49 -0400 Message-ID: <199805251529.LAA01103@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Shakeel wrote: >Could not for the life of me figure out the purpose of the string in the >Morton safety break system. oes any one know what it is for? A black string? It's for hanging the device around your neck so you don't lose it! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 09:55:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 09:15:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Low fire instructions for DEKA Paints Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:39:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May25.73953.0> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi, Anybody out there have the low fire instructions for DEKA transparent paints. I have the paint, it is fired low in the kitchen oven, under 400 degrees I seem to remember, but can't find any instructions. It is Memorial day so one to call either. Thanks in advance, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 10:17:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 09:22:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Attaching Reostat to Paragon Quick Fire Kiln Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:43:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May25.74321.0> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi, Anyone out there have any idea how to attach a rheostat to the Paragon Quick Fire small Kiln???/ Ran across a reference in a chat rom, but there were no instructions. I want to avoid the $300-$400 cost, for a while of a kiln controller, and just need this for intermittent work. Thanks in advance, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 10:49:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 10:22:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Jenni French Book Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 01:23:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199805251750.NAA26025@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Let's have a little more responsibility in our zeal to share > information. Sorry, I thought I was okay in the zeal department ... and that I was comparing retail cost of the book. So the Aussie price is delivered anywhere, even the US? As for Amazon gouging at .95 postage, I'd bet that that's what the postage is ... that'd make the book weigh about 4 oz. And $3.00 handling is probably less than ... oh, I was going to say less than the cost of gas round-trip to your local bookstore (if they have it), but with gas prices in the U.S. hovering around $1/gallon, I can't. By the way, in Scotland last week, gas was running over $5/gallon, on a par with the rest of Europe. Cigs are over $5/pack, too, but the Scots are avid smokers, it seems. We were asked "smoking or non" in only one restaurant in two weeks; the rest were smoking throughout and usually sold cigars at the bar. Very different experience, going out over there as compared to the U.S. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 11:18:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 10:46:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "leestat7" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Low fire instructions for DEKA Paints Date: Mon, 25 May 98 13:42:31 -0400 Message-ID: <199805251740.NAA08455@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk >Anybody out there have the low fire instructions for DEKA transparent >paints. Hi Lee, Nice to have you back! Put your work in a cold oven, set it for 275 degrees, turn it off and let it stay in there till oven cools. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 11:48:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 11:21:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: Attaching Rheostat to Paragon Quik-Fire Kiln Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:20:04 -0400 Message-ID: <199805251820.LAA20080@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Precedence: bulk Lee Boe wrote: >Anyone out there have any idea how >to attach a rheostat to the Paragon > Quick Fire small Kiln???/ Paragon makes a rheostat specifically for this purpose. It is the PCB-1 Power Control Box and most distributors who sell the kiln also carry this item. It sells for about $50. I have used this in combination with my quik-fire and a digital kitchen timer very successfully for a number of years. If you need the names of distributors who carry this item, e-mail me and I'll look it up in my catalogs. Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 12:20:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 11:57:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, leestat7@home.com Subject: Low fire instructions for DEKA Paints Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:55:02, -0500 Message-ID: <199805251855.OAA10240@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Anybody out there have the low fire instructions for DEKA transparent paints. I have the paint, it is fired low in the kitchen oven, under 400 degrees I seem to remember, but can't find any instructions.<< *Allow paint to dry for 72 hours. Put the painted glass in a cold oven and turn on the heat to 225'; after 30 minutes, turn oven off and leave object in oven to cool.* The above is quoted from a wholesale catalog. I have used a heat lamp for the same purpose and have avoided the 72 hours by heating very slowly to drive off the solvents prior to baking. Otherwise bubbling results. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 12:50:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 12:03:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, leestat7@home.com Subject: Internet Message Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:00:17, -0500 Message-ID: <199805251900.PAA16398@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Anyone out there have any idea how to attach a rheostat to the Paragon Quick Fire small Kiln???<< Paragon sells a reostat for the Quick Fire. You are not likely to have a reostat that will carry the load of the Quick Fire and the ground connection is ment to save your life. I jurry rigged a Glasstar temp controller and burned it out after a few uses. bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 15:50:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 15:05:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: economic sturdy tables. Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:01:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May25.8128.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk OK, here is the problem. I need more work space and I need it cheap. I have converted the family room to my work area. So have lots of space. The kids are grown up, so no need for family room, in case you were worrying. My only thougts are a door on 2 two-drawer filing cabinets, or 4'X8' plywood on two sawhorses. I depend on a wheelchair for sitting. I prefer to do everthing sitting down. So I want everything at table level. Plus the table has to be deep so my wheelchair and I can sit up to it. My other concern is how much weight will these types of tables support. The door and plywood idea that is. I use pan racks to whole my glass. And I want these on top of the table. I have 6 of these, probably 25-50lbs each, plus boxes of scrap glass. My problem is, that the support has got to leave me room to move around under the table. I would prefer to just have it supported on the ends and leave the middle free for me to move around in. Right now, I only care about function. Not to worried about how it will look. So do any of you wonderful, bright, resourceful people have any ideas for me? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 17:23:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 16:36:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: economic sturdy tables. Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 19:35:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May25.153531.0> References: <<1998May25.8128.0>> Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > OK, here is the problem. > I need more work space and I need it cheap. > I have converted the family room to my work area. So have lots of space. > The kids are grown up, so no need for family room, in case you were > worrying. > My only thougts are a door on 2 two-drawer filing cabinets, or 4'X8' > plywood on two sawhorses. > I depend on a wheelchair for sitting. I prefer to do everthing sitting > down. So I want everything at table level. Plus the table has to be > deep so my wheelchair and I can sit up to it. > My other concern is how much weight will these types of tables support. > The door and plywood idea that is. > I use pan racks to whole my glass. And I want these on top of the > table. I have 6 of these, probably 25-50lbs each, plus boxes of scrap > glass. > My problem is, that the support has got to leave me room to move around > under the table. I would prefer to just have it supported on the ends > and leave the middle free for me to move around in. > Right now, I only care about function. Not to worried about how it will > look. > So do any of you wonderful, bright, resourceful people have any ideas > for me? > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i would choose the door approach. i would use a solid wood door, if possible. the filecabinets can hold onto a bulk of the glass. if you can you may want to screw the cabinets down to the floor or wall, so the table does'nt tilt when you open the drawer. for extra support i would put a 2x4 on the wall under the section that is'nt supported. for cheapness plywood would be best. if the sides are'nt going to be supported (with 2x4's); then you should double up a 3/4" sheet. you would'nt want the table to be 4' deep,even a standing person would have problems reaching that far, especially for a piece of glass. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 17:47:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 16:42:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, leestat7@home.com Subject: Internet Message Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 19:39:24, -0500 Message-ID: <199805252339.TAA07640@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Will try this tomorrow, and thanks for the hair dryer tip. Lee<< What hair drier? I don't even own a hair drier. I said heat lamp! Seriously, I suspect a hair dryer would do a good job also. The trick is to not apply heat so quickly that the paint is bubbled. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 17:54:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 17:23:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!AlexG2 From: AlexG2 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Garden Stone Shipping Ideas/Cost Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:22:31 EDT Message-ID: <1998May26.02231.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, everyone I'm looking for some ideas on how to ship these heavy stones. Are there any cost effective ways of senting them? Thanks to all. Alex Gacic ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 18:12:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 17:25:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bright.net!runsloo From: peg leasure To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: remove from list Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805260023.UAA28914@sparticus.bright.net> Precedence: bulk Please remove me from your list. Thanks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 18:58:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:13:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: AlexG2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Garden Stone Shipping Ideas/Cost Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:13:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May25.17133.0> References: <<1998May26.02231.0>> Precedence: bulk AlexG2 wrote: > > Hi, everyone > > I'm looking for some ideas on how to ship these heavy stones. Are there any > cost effective ways of senting them? > > Thanks to all. > > Alex Gacic > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass UPS may be one of the cheaper ways. mail can sometimes be more expensive, and they're very critical on weight. if it's a 10th of an ounce off, you'll hear about it. ideally a box should be fine, i would choose a double wall cardboard with filament (sp?) tape to keep it closed. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 19:21:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:13:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: Whispy Blu To: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: CEMENT/ PUTTY Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:12:37 EDT Message-ID: <1998May26.11237.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 5/25/98 2:18:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time, NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net writes: << I'm almost tempted to try and add something like....I dunno, anything!! >> Just a thought - I know painters (interior house) who add a teaspoon of vanilla extract to a gallon of paint to eliminate that odor. I don't know if it would effect the putty/cement or not. Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 19:27:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:16:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: Kris To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: economic sturdy tables. Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:16:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May25.16165.0> References: <<1998May25.8128.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Ran this one by hubby the former contractor. He said plywood should be plenty strong, screw it to the sawhorses so it doesn't shift around. Doors are the best and should be even stronger, also smoother and less risk of splinters I would think. Keep an eye in the classifieds under building supplies for sale, maybe pick up some cheap. Also look at garage sales and furniture for sale for library tables. I have an old one for my work table and I love it. Bet you're going to love all that space when you get it set up! Kris Shirley Balloch wrote: > > OK, here is the problem. > I need more work space and I need it cheap. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 19:46:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:44:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: string in the Morton Safety Break system Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:36:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May25.173634.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk Re: Pat's answer: hang it around the neck and keep the breaker handy. I also sometimes think it was meant to be used to hang myself after screwing up an inside curve. Glad I'm not alone. Carol T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 21:18:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 18:44:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: string in the Morton Safety Break system Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:36:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May25.173634.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk Re: Pat's answer: hang it around the neck and keep the breaker handy. I also sometimes think it was meant to be used to hang myself after screwing up an inside curve. Glad I'm not alone. Carol T. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 21:41:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 20:22:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PUZZYKATZ From: PUZZY KATZ To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Low fire instructions for DEKA Paints Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:17:23 EDT Message-ID: <1998May26.31723.0> Precedence: bulk After Deka is fired in the oven, is it permanent? If not could someone suggest a brand that is, and the supplier... Thankyou Puzz >^..^< Suzan White ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 21:46:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 20:52:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: SusieHUs To: balloch@netbridge.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: economic sturdy tables. Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:47:49 EDT Message-ID: <1998May26.34749.0> Precedence: bulk I have a setup in a family room too. I have four, two-drawer filing cabinets and the table top is a precut 8' long countertop I bought at Menards, a home improvement center. Since it was a standard size and I didn't need the edged finished (as in a kitchen), the price for it was only $36.00. I have a spine disorder too and I have to do most of my work sitting and it's quite comfortable. The opening for a chair is pretty good but if you'd like more space, just get rid of one or two of the filing cabinets. If you were to keep your glass on the countertop section that is over the filing cabinets, you wouldn't have to worry about the weight. It's also very easy to clean and after several years, mine still looks like new (bought the kind that looks like a light wood but you can use any color available). Another perk is that the front edge that you will be working against is nicely rounded with a slight edging to keep things from rolling off. All in all, pretty cheap, looks great in the family room and I use it almost every day from everything from stained glass work to ceramics, to lampworking beads and annealing metals for sculptures. Susie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 22:03:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 20:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp23.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: toby@northlights.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:Lost Art? Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 03:15:41 -0400 Message-ID: <199805240715.DAA00737@ppp22.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199805190044.UAA02200@ppp22.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Hi Elisabeth, Toby> I enjoyed thoroughly your thoughtful discussion contribution! Toby> Strangely enough, I would still have enjoyed it, even if I disagreed Toby> with what you said. Toby> As it is, I do agree. I have been thinking about this all week. I'd say the glass can be the medium of an artist the same way that the canvas or the written word. Nobody argues that literature is an art. Most of the world know how to write, are they calling themselves artists? Nop. Many people know how to do stained glass. They are not artists as a consequence. in photography, one very important step is to print the photograph. An excellent printer will render beautiful images from an average negatives. Nevertheless, he does not gain credit in the photo exhibit and his work is only appreciated by the photographer who knows his skills. I doubt Chagall actually made the panels on his windows. Do we now the actual artists? What about the artisans in Tiffany's studios? We only know a handful of them. I agree with you, Elisabeth, craft has a different connotation (just ask the germans). I check the real OED, it has 5000 words (31 Kilobytes) on the entry for Art. Toby> But I was also tempted to look in good old trusted Oxford Dictionary Toby> for the definition/s of Art (it fills up half a page). Included is a Toby> quote from Pope: "So vast is art, so narrow human wit". Toby> Some of the definitions: Toby> The application of skill to subjects of taste; Toby> Perfection of workmanship or execution as an object in itself; Toby> Skill applied to the arts of imitation and design (Hmmm... If one Toby> argues that ALL visual art is imitation). Toby> You put forward a definition of Toby> Artist Toby> Craftsman Toby> How about a third one? Artisan? Don't you think that it is snobbism what drives stained glass artisans to call themselves "artists"? Or should we make a distinction between "transcendental SG artists" and "transient SG artists"? It reminds me a day I was visiting the Museum of Modern Art in Mexico City. Do you know who Frida Kahlo is? there is a painting in the permanent collection of the museum: "Las dos Fridas" (the two Fridas). A guy was making a copy of the painting, very real and accurate. Do we call him artist? Yes and not. His work will probably be hung in another museum, but not as his. We will never know his name but "appreciate" his work. The same I believe applies to the creator of a true copy of a Tiffany lamp. Many are artists or claim to be. But we cherish those who are brave to change the rules and break into new ground. We can see a huge number of new artists in galleries around the globe; but only a handful will make it to the next 100 years. Those, in my opinion, will be the real artists. There is, however, an exception to this. Age. Anything, literally, everything that has aesthetic value, after 1000 years will be consider art. In this case, however, I believe its value is more archaeological than artistic. Toby> About a year ago (I think) we also discussed whether stained Glass is Toby> Art or Craft (Bearing in mind that e.g. a cabinetmaker can create an Toby> entirely unique piece...) Toby> Any new thoughts? Toby> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK -- Daniel M. German "A first-rate laboratory is one in which mediocre scientists can produce Patrick Maynard Stuart Blackett ->outstanding work" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 22:18:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 20:58:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Resin technology Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:01:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May25.18152.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Shirley- When I use the expression "computer art" I mean hand-manipulated work = that is then printed and framed and = hung on the wall like a painting. The latest hot trend in fine art. The resin work that I have seen (mostly lamps) looks (and sounds like when you tap it), well... plastic... because it sort of is that. I'm sure there's a market for it, but I can't see me doing one-of-a- kind work using it, can't imagine how = I'd accomplish glass painting with it, I sure can't imagine charging for it what I charge for stained glass! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = (an IGGA glass site just around the corner from Lee Boe's and Carol Swann's! Visit = all three of us next time you're surfin') = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon May 25 23:17:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 25 May 1998 22:24:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, PUZZYKATZ@aol.com Subject: Internet Message Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 01:23:02, -0500 Message-ID: <199805260523.BAA17116@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>After Deka is fired in the oven, is it permanent? If not could someone suggest a brand that is, and the supplier... Thankyou Puzz >^..^< Suzan White<< Not really. You can scrape it off with a knife. Suspect it will also peal and fade with time. The only durable paints I know of for glass are fired in at about 1200'F. bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 05:04:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 04:15:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: Hi imLaura To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: economic sturdy tables. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 07:14:05 EDT Message-ID: <1998May26.11145.0> Precedence: bulk Shirley: My only mistake was not ordering them all at the same time: I ordered them one at a time, but since I liked them so much, I later ended up ordering two more...I would've gotten a lower price by ordering all three at once (oh well!) good luck Laura In a message dated 98-05-26 04:28:38 EDT, you write: << I should have thought of that. I have displayed many a heavy object at craft shows on those tables with no ill effects. Plus I won't be locked into one floor plan and I can handle them myself. Yes my wheel chair sits to them great. Thanks Shirley B Hi imLaura wrote: > > Hello: > I found inexpensive, sturdy, banquet-type tables in the Staples Office supply > catalog and bought 3 of them - they were about $35 each, and well worth the > investment (free delivery, too). These types of folding tables are also easy > to take on the road if needed for shows. I'm not sure if the height would be > what you are looking for, but I thought they were a find. I don't know if this > helps, but I hope you find what you are looking for. Your idea seems fine, but > sounds like it would have to be pretty sturdy wood on top to hold the weight > from the heavy objects- nothing flexible, and very level. > Laura >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 07:03:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 05:59:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: economic sturdy tables. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:57:28 EDT Message-ID: <1998May26.125728.0> Precedence: bulk My work station is made of a length of counter top. There is a building supply place here that sells seconds. It is supported by metal floor bracers. Thats the things folks put underneath their house to help support weak spots in the floor. I've had this setup for the last 8 years, no problems. It is about 12 ft long and holds my large light box at the end so I know it can hold alot of weight. It could also be adjusted, higher/lower. I've though about using 2 single cabinets, one on each end, for support and extra storage, but don't know if they'd be as sturdy. My two cents, Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 08:41:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 08:19:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: "Peggy W. Johnsen" Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Reinforcement Date: Tue, 26 May 98 08:17:13 -0700 Message-ID: References: <> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk well, yes and no. You wrote: > Hi Charlie: I have been taught that the more bends you have in the rebar, > the weaker the reinforcement. i never heard this, but in some circumstances i suppose it is true. however, in others it isn't. > Your description of force against an arch > is accepted, however, when you break the vector line of a vertical rebar > how does the curved area make a panel stronger? if the ends of the rebar are embedded in wood, then the force is transmitted to the frame. if the frame is stiff enough, then you have that available to disappate the force, and thus the rebar is stronger if bent. however, if the rebar is thin enough, it acts like a spring, and thus can flex. flexing also disappates force (actually force gets changed into heat in a spring, e=mc^2 and f=ma if you want to start looking up the math). Your vector for the > curved "arch" area is often parallel to the vertical lines...thus breaking > the support you are trying to seek. I am interested in hearing more about > this. Thanks. Peggy > yes, it is parallel, and if there is enough room to flex and it is attached to a lead line, it will attempt to drag the glass along, causing breaks. if it's stiff enough to transmit all the forces correctly, then all the force gets disappated in a frame and it's stronger. if you don't have a frame, the the force gets disappated into other glass pieces, and you're then hoping that the number of pieces it affects is large enough. each piece can disappate a fraction of the force, and if the fractions added up are more than the force, nothing breaks. there's also localized differences in the breaking force. it depends upon how much surface area of the rebar is attached to how much surface area of the glass/solder, length, direction of forces, etc. analogy: try to push a piece of garden hose laying on the ground from one end. if it's absolutely straight, then you can do it. if it's bent, then it bends more and the far end doesn't move. if you put bricks along side it to keep it straight, or even in a bent shape, you can push it somewhat, but not easily. that's force transmission. the bricks are where you attach it to glass. you're really using up the force from your push on one end in friction with the bricks, and some fraction of force is transmitted to the other end to move it. charlie there will be a test on chapters 1-5 on friday...:-) --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 09:52:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 09:05:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: economic sturdy tables. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:52:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May26.75254.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Shirley Balloch >My only thougts are a door on 2 two-drawer filing cabinets, or 4'X8' plywood on two sawhorses.< Shirley; The door on 2 two-drawer metal filing cabinets is EXACTLY what I use for my foiling/soldering bench. I left an overhang on the ends of about 4 inches of door, so I can attach clamps, screw down lead stretchers, etc. This leaves a very large space in the middle for my lap & legs, and some storage of jewels and bevels in boxes. I added a large framed cork bulletin board on top of the door, and screwed this down to the door. This gives me a few advantages over just the door: 1) I have a built-in straight edge of the frame 2) I have a built-in right angle at the corners 3) The push pins are easier to deal with on cork than the wood of the door 4) If I need a larger surface, I can always un-screw the cork board and work on the door 5) The cork board covers over the doorknob hole The filing cabinet drawers are great. I store all the solder and chemicals in one drawer, the foil, copper wire, Re-Strip, marbles, etching stencils, etc. in another. On the other side are my business files in the top drawer, and Deka paints, soldering tools, extra extension chords, etc. in the bottom drawer. Work great! Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 10:21:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 09:06:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Low fire instructions for DEKA Paints Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:53:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May26.7530.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by PUZZY KATZ >After Deka is fired in the oven, is it permanent? If not could someone suggest a brand that is, and the supplier...< To truly get permanent painted glass, you must use glass paints. These are powdered glass and enamels (and liquid gold) which are hand-mixed with mediums and oils, and are fired into the glass at melting temperatures (oh, around 1450 degrees or so). Thompson Enamels is the supplier I use. You must have a proper kiln (not an oven) which can attain temperatures up to 2000 degrees. Glass painting is quite an art, and requires thorough reading, investigating, and investment in the proper equipment. I recommend you get the book, "The Art of Painting on Glass" by Elskus, if you are interested in learning more. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 12:20:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 11:49:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: economic/efficient sturdy tables. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:49:35 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May26.44935.0> Precedence: bulk My work table(s) consist of 2 solid core doors on top of Spectrum Glass mini cases (about 26" high).The open end of the cases are out and I use the cases for sheet glass storage on both ends of the doors and assorted stuff between the cases. There are 4 cases. On the doors are my light tables, small one for cutting final pieces and a large light table for sheets, soldering space (over head ventilation system) and grinder. On the open end of the run of doors is my stripping table and I can get to 3 sides of it. Over all run for me is the length of the 2 doors and the straight line type working space is efficient. I currently still work standing up. I may eventually switch the shop around to allow me to work sitting down. I have about 6 assorted cases of glass in the shop, stuff on the tops of them, and un-counted full sheets of glass leaning every where. A have a glass rack from a retired window glass store and that holds most of the rest of the shorter sheets. I probably have about 800#s or so of color segregated ends and cut offs from lampshade making in boxes and buckets that I will/maybe someday/year use for a mosaic...no grinding, foiling, and soldering!!!!!! My chaotic and "messy" shop works for me, and I still know where most of the stuff I am looking for is. enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 15:02:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 13:25:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!IreneMerm From: Irene Merm To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: lead vs. foil Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 16:22:38 EDT Message-ID: <1998May26.202238.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, I am having a very hard time figuring out if I should do my sidelight in foil or lead. I have done one lead panel so far but all the rest of the things I have made have been in foil. How do you decide which you are going to do? The pattern is not too intricate, just flowers, hummingbirds, leaves, vine and background. I would either reinforce the piece with zinc if using lead or reinforcing foil if doing foil. Thanks for your help. Irene ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 15:18:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 14:48:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Mirrors (once more) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:42:46 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980526174246.0069bbe8@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Precedence: bulk Hi Gang, I am starting a small project using a mirror.... and I have already learned that I need to finish off the edges of the mirror to prevent the silvering from breaking down. Here is my question... I have a can of Krylon clear acrylic coating that I have used in some small woodwork projects in the past. Will this product do the job on the mirror? I don't have any clear fingernail polish in the house and if I can use what I already have on hand.... so much the better. Thanks for your advice... Barbara Snell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 17:20:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 17:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: iname.com!alpas From: "-" To: "Stained Glass list" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Polymer technology Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:03:37 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May27.2337.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks Dani, Michael and PJ for your comments. Yes Kris, I LOVE the work I do. The creative process and the pleasure we get throught it, is the same independently of the technology used. Even for other forms of art (painting, music, theather, etc) I believe it is the very similar. Remember, it still is a craft, a manual one, though the materials are high-tech. I hv a friend that makes handcraft in wood AND polyester. He uses Black & Decker and other modern tools. Also many musicians use electronic organs or computers. I agree and understand Dani's pleasure of smelling and feeling the ink, but that is just because of our education. Future painters :-( might be happy for not having to deal with that dirtyness. If new materials and techs can give us improved characteristics and/or easier production processes, why would we reject it ? I suppose todays canvas and inks use recent technical improvements. Do you prefer to buy the old brands ? Do u buy your H-shaped lead or do you melt it yourself ? How do u make sand-blasting without modern equipment ? This polymer process demands some skills. It is something between the stained-glass artist and the painter, with the difficulty of "painting" with liquid inks. Imagine the difficulties and also the potentialities if you could manualy configure the colors of a glass during its cooling after melting. There are other difficult details I did not mention. But alltogether I think it is a better and quicker way to create stianed-glass that allow us to concentrate more in the creation than in the method. The final product is good and the clients satisfied, its creation makes me happy, the profit is (very) good, so everybody is happy. Luis Sousa Portugal alpas@iname.com UIN 3410031 > Dani Greer wrote: I'm not so sure about what you said. No, it's not glass like we do it but he is still creating. He chooses the lines, shapes, colors, goes through his process to create what he invisions so I think it's expression as much as what we do especially if he's creating the designs. I would have to see it before I could call it second best, and even if I thought that it doesn't matter if it is what he chooses to do and thinks it's first best. As for discussion on this list it's probably a bit off topic but it is glass, just a different use and I thought it was interesting to read a bit about what he was doing. I agree that computer art is very different, working with your keyboard and a screen. There is something about being in your work area, picking up things in your hands and working with them whatever the medium that is just good for the soul. Kris Michael J. Greer wrote: > > Dear Luis- > > Thank you for sharing information > about polymers. However, after = > > reading your interesting essay, I have > to wonder how it relates to the art of = > > creating stained glass. Yes, perhaps = > > there is some similarity of appearance. > But, a piece of computer art can > be created to have the effect of a fine > oil painting also. Is the joy of creation > the same for the artist when he paints > an oil or manipulates the image on > the computer screen? No, the experience > is vastly different! I know because I > have done both. The experience of > rendering a piece of computer art will > never be the same to me as the process > of painting an oil. I want to smell the > paint, see it under my fingernails, feel > it as it slides onto the canvas. And, > likewise, when I work in glass, I want > to hear that score, and feel a good > break, and I absolutely love the = > > smell of my studio after cementing > a few windows! I am an artist and making > art is an experiential process. And the end > result is unique - nothing (including = > > polymer) sparkles like glass when the > light pours through it. It is a magnificent > medium. Pure magic. Why settle for second > best? > > Best regards, > > Greer Gallery & Studios > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 17:37:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 16:40:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: PUZZY KATZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Low fire instructions for DEKA Paints Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:32:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May26.153233.0> References: <<1998May26.31723.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Suzan, No it is not permanent, can be scraped off with knife. But for doing certain kinds of craft projects (this was to paint a design on some glass canister jars) it is fine, and if fired in the low oven is somewhat washable. Don't put in the dishwasher though. For real glass painting you need enamel (powdered glass) and a high fire kiln. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations PUZZY KATZ wrote: > > After Deka is fired in the oven, is it permanent? If not could someone > suggest a brand that is, and the supplier... > > Thankyou > Puzz >^..^< > Suzan White > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 17:56:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 17:34:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Barbara Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirrors (once more) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 20:34:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May26.163437.0> References: <<3.0.2.32.19980526174246.0069bbe8@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>> Precedence: bulk Barbara wrote: > > Hi Gang, > I am starting a small project using a mirror.... and I have already > learned that I need to finish off the edges of the mirror to prevent the > silvering from breaking down. Here is my question... > I have a can of Krylon clear acrylic coating that I have used in some > small woodwork projects in the past. Will this product do the job on the > mirror? I don't have any clear fingernail polish in the house and if I can > use what I already have on hand.... so much the better. > > Thanks for your advice... > Barbara Snell > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah it should work. be sure all the surfaces are clean, use denat. alchohol. spray the edges and the back. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 18:19:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 17:38:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: - Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Polymer technology Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 20:36:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May26.163642.0> References: <<1998May27.2337.0>> Precedence: bulk - wrote: > > Thanks Dani, Michael and PJ for your comments. > > Yes Kris, I LOVE the work I do. > The creative process and the pleasure we get throught it, is the same > independently of the technology used. Even for other forms of art > (painting, music, theather, etc) I believe it is the very similar. > > Remember, it still is a craft, a manual one, though the materials are > high-tech. > I hv a friend that makes handcraft in wood AND polyester. He uses Black > & Decker and other modern tools. Also many musicians use electronic > organs or computers. > > I agree and understand Dani's pleasure of smelling and feeling the ink, > but that is just because of our education. Future painters :-( might be > happy for not having to deal with that dirtyness. > > If new materials and techs can give us improved characteristics and/or > easier production processes, why would we reject it ? > I suppose todays canvas and inks use recent technical improvements. Do > you prefer to buy the old brands ? > Do u buy your H-shaped lead or do you melt it yourself ? > How do u make sand-blasting without modern equipment ? > > This polymer process demands some skills. It is something between the > stained-glass artist and the painter, with the difficulty of "painting" > with liquid inks. Imagine the difficulties and also the potentialities > if you could manualy configure the colors of a glass during its cooling > after melting. > There are other difficult details I did not mention. But alltogether I > think it is a better and quicker way to create stianed-glass that allow > us to concentrate more in the creation than in the method. > > The final product is good and the clients satisfied, its creation makes > me happy, the profit is (very) good, so everybody is happy. > > Luis Sousa > Portugal > alpas@iname.com > UIN 3410031 > > > Dani Greer wrote: > I'm not so sure about what you said. No, it's not glass like we do it > but he is still creating. He chooses the lines, shapes, colors, goes > through his process to create what he invisions so I think it's > expression as much as what we do especially if he's creating the > designs. I would have to see it before I could call it second best, and > even if I thought that it doesn't matter if it is what he chooses to do > and thinks it's first best. > As for discussion on this list it's probably a bit off topic but it is > glass, just a different use and I thought it was interesting to read a > bit about what he was doing. > I agree that computer art is very different, working with your keyboard > and a screen. There is something about being in your work area, picking > up things in your hands and working with them whatever the medium that > is just good for the soul. > Kris > > Michael J. Greer wrote: > > > > Dear Luis- > > > > Thank you for sharing information > > about polymers. However, after = > > > > reading your interesting essay, I have > > to wonder how it relates to the art of = > > > > creating stained glass. Yes, perhaps = > > > > there is some similarity of appearance. > > But, a piece of computer art can > > be created to have the effect of a fine > > oil painting also. Is the joy of creation > > the same for the artist when he paints > > an oil or manipulates the image on > > the computer screen? No, the experience > > is vastly different! I know because I > > have done both. The experience of > > rendering a piece of computer art will > > never be the same to me as the process > > of painting an oil. I want to smell the > > paint, see it under my fingernails, feel > > it as it slides onto the canvas. And, > > likewise, when I work in glass, I want > > to hear that score, and feel a good > > break, and I absolutely love the = > > > > smell of my studio after cementing > > a few windows! I am an artist and making > > art is an experiential process. And the end > > result is unique - nothing (including = > > > > polymer) sparkles like glass when the > > light pours through it. It is a magnificent > > medium. Pure magic. Why settle for second > > best? > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Greer Gallery & Studios > > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i wonder if you could use this process with stained glass. if you could pour the clear one over a finshed artwork. you could display it outside. it would be weather proof. and if it's as strong as you mentioned, maybe even hail resistant... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 20:55:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 20:26:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Resin technology Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 20:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805270326.UAA04558@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >To: "-" >From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) >Subject: Re: Resin technology > >Dear Luis, >I've been attracted to your message. >Althou it's not of stained glass, but the advancement in what you describe is interesting. I deal with a Japan product made for the N. American contintent. Many would not appreciate, but I realize some of what is made for Japan, is not for us. Certain glues for example. >Thank you for sharing, Cindy > >>Luis has said: >>No it is not the overlay technique you described. That seems >>very good to your business, as it brings to u many clients. >>I did not knew that process. It seems more suitable for a >>childrens class in pre-school... >> >>I called it resin, but I really dont know its composition. I >>had a course in Japan at my former supplier and they where >>very misterious. They called it "polymers" and told it is an >>industrial secret (!). >> >>One of the products makes the "lead" lines. It is a liquid >>that becomes very hard and adhesive when exposed to >>ultra-violet light. A complicated process is used to make a >>full-sized negative film (also sensible to UV light, >>developed in water at a very precise temperature) and >>"print" the lines over any kind of glass (yes, full size, >>only 1 glass) using the UV light. This creates the lines as >>walls 1.5 or 2mm high, any widht. They are transparent and >>must be darkened (grey or black) with another product that >>consists of 2 polymers (?) that after being mixed become >>hard in about 40 minutes inside a surface oven (60C). >> >>Next, the areas must be filled with another 2 reacting >>products (liquids) carefully weighted and mixed. Color >>pigments are included (mineral origin, I suppose, because >>organic ones would not resist to the tests described >>bellow), and any hue/saturation in color can be calibrated. >>This takes a few hours to become hard. We can half-mix >>several colors, as a painter would creating beautifull effects. >> >>For the sake of my reputation and my clients satisfation I >>made some aging tests, though I had the results of tests >>made by some Japanese labs. My results where remarcable: >>I hv a friend that is chief of a laboratory in a famous >>paint manufacturer. They hv a oven with a special lamp that >>simulates the sun composition and use it for testing their >>outdoor inks. They usually test it for 8 minutes. We tested >>our glasses for 2 hours and there was no change of color >>except for a small darkening in the yellow pallete. >>We also tested sun/rain and cold/heat cycles. Also tested >>acid washing, earth and water immersion, ultra-sonic and >>infra-sonic vibrations, freezing, and there was no damage at >>all.... >> >>The only small damage was made with a strong knife using >>all my muscle. Naturally, the glass base can be broken, but >>it will stay in its place and water-proof, thanks to the strong >>adhesive properties. >> >>Now I'm using other similar products from another supplier that >>are much easier to use. Do not require UV light, the process is >>more simple, clean and quick and the result is more pleasant to >>touch and see. >> >>I made a small company and enjoy good success even in areas >>of traditional lead technique as cathedrals and convents. >> >>This post is becoming too big, so I will leave to another day to >>describe what *I think* are the advantages of polymer technology. >> >>Meanwhile I would appreciate yours (and/or others) comments. >>Bye >>Luis Sousa >>alpas@iname.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >>*Ah.....I guess this one is to me. >>*Sorry Luis, I forgot to sign my name. >>*And it is Ms. X. >>*And I am far from anonymous. >>*I was uncertain when you said resin whether you meant what >>*is used here in the United States as Stained Glass Overlay. >>*I don't think you will find anyone on this list that uses >>*this method it you are speaking of Overlay. >>*To answer your first question.........no our studio does >>*not use this method >>*if you are speaking of the Overlay. We replace alot of it >>*with traditional *stained glass because of unhappy clients >>*who assume that they are purchasing traditional stained >>*glass and once it is installed find themselves with Overlay. >>*A very big problem of misleading clients. >>*If this is not the same process you are speaking about I am >>*curious as to what it is you do with resin. >>*The Overlay process here is done with sheets of plastic >>*that are cut and laid over one >>*piece of glass that is the size of the finished work.. >>*Even the leadlines are plastic. >>*I don't think a master of traditional stained glass would >>*work in Overlay. >>*my best, >>*pj >> >> >> >>>Ok Mr X, lets chat !!!!!!!!!! >>>I'd like to know with who I'm talking to and I'd suggest >>>that u sign your messages. This is not an anonymous list >>>!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>My initial post asked for people who uses the mentioned >>>technology. Do u use it? >>>I really would like to meet people who does. Though I use >>>it for some 6 years, it seems still quite new and unknown. >>>I would like to have a comparative opinion of somebody who >>>understands and masters both this and traditional >>>technologies, I mean advantages and disadvantages of each >>>one. >>>Regards, >>>Luis >>>alpas@iname.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>+ ah??? do you mean stained glass overlay???? >>>+ I would love to chat with >>>+ you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>> >>> >>> >>>>I use polymer resin materials for stained glass. >>>>I'd like to 'talk' to people who uses this kind of >>>>technology and exchange some experiences and points of >>>view. >>>> >>>>Luis Sousa >>>>Portugal >> >> >> >> >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue May 26 21:23:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 26 May 1998 20:50:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Low fire instructions for DEKA Paints Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 20:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805270350.UAA06357@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Christie said; (oh, around 1450 degrees or so). At temps of 1450'F does one not get into the slumping temp? As I slump most glasses at 1250'F, which sags the glass. Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 01:56:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 01:15:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re glass paint Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 18:13:27 +1000 Message-ID: <1998May28.41327.0> Precedence: bulk i have been using another product with some success it's called "Porcelaine 150" and it's made by Pébéo it fires in the oven at 150C and is harder after firing than the other brands i have seen before. it is originaly made for ceramic painting but works well with glass. Harlequin Leadlight Home page http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 06:21:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 05:47:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Polymer technology Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 08:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805271245.IAA24299@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Luis, I was wondering if you had some photos of your work that you would like to share with us. I would love to see the final results of this type of application; And where are you located now? Also I was wondering if anyone knows where you can purchase the tape that resembles lead that the stained glass overlay people use. my best, pj >Thanks Dani, Michael and PJ for your comments. > >Yes Kris, I LOVE the work I do. >The creative process and the pleasure we get throught it, is the same >independently of the technology used. Even for other forms of art >(painting, music, theather, etc) I believe it is the very similar. > >Remember, it still is a craft, a manual one, though the materials are >high-tech. >I hv a friend that makes handcraft in wood AND polyester. He uses Black >& Decker and other modern tools. Also many musicians use electronic >organs or computers. > >I agree and understand Dani's pleasure of smelling and feeling the ink, >but that is just because of our education. Future painters :-( might be >happy for not having to deal with that dirtyness. > >If new materials and techs can give us improved characteristics and/or >easier production processes, why would we reject it ? >I suppose todays canvas and inks use recent technical improvements. Do >you prefer to buy the old brands ? >Do u buy your H-shaped lead or do you melt it yourself ? >How do u make sand-blasting without modern equipment ? > >This polymer process demands some skills. It is something between the >stained-glass artist and the painter, with the difficulty of "painting" >with liquid inks. Imagine the difficulties and also the potentialities >if you could manualy configure the colors of a glass during its cooling >after melting. >There are other difficult details I did not mention. But alltogether I >think it is a better and quicker way to create stianed-glass that allow >us to concentrate more in the creation than in the method. > >The final product is good and the clients satisfied, its creation makes >me happy, the profit is (very) good, so everybody is happy. > >Luis Sousa >Portugal >alpas@iname.com >UIN 3410031 > > > > >> Dani Greer wrote: >I'm not so sure about what you said. No, it's not glass like we do it >but he is still creating. He chooses the lines, shapes, colors, goes >through his process to create what he invisions so I think it's >expression as much as what we do especially if he's creating the >designs. I would have to see it before I could call it second best, and >even if I thought that it doesn't matter if it is what he chooses to do >and thinks it's first best. >As for discussion on this list it's probably a bit off topic but it is >glass, just a different use and I thought it was interesting to read a >bit about what he was doing. >I agree that computer art is very different, working with your keyboard >and a screen. There is something about being in your work area, picking >up things in your hands and working with them whatever the medium that >is just good for the soul. >Kris > > > >Michael J. Greer wrote: >> >> Dear Luis- >> >> Thank you for sharing information >> about polymers. However, after = >> >> reading your interesting essay, I have >> to wonder how it relates to the art of = >> >> creating stained glass. Yes, perhaps = >> >> there is some similarity of appearance. >> But, a piece of computer art can >> be created to have the effect of a fine >> oil painting also. Is the joy of creation >> the same for the artist when he paints >> an oil or manipulates the image on >> the computer screen? No, the experience >> is vastly different! I know because I >> have done both. The experience of >> rendering a piece of computer art will >> never be the same to me as the process >> of painting an oil. I want to smell the >> paint, see it under my fingernails, feel >> it as it slides onto the canvas. And, >> likewise, when I work in glass, I want >> to hear that score, and feel a good >> break, and I absolutely love the = >> >> smell of my studio after cementing >> a few windows! I am an artist and making >> art is an experiential process. And the end >> result is unique - nothing (including = >> >> polymer) sparkles like glass when the >> light pours through it. It is a magnificent >> medium. Pure magic. Why settle for second >> best? >> >> Best regards, >> > >> Greer Gallery & Studios >> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 09:00:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 08:23:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: PLEASE, Help!!!! Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 08:25:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May27.12519.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Howard here, I have a friend who is going to set a GLASS BLOWING studio. He has had years of experience, but not a large studio set-up. I am looking for any sites, urls, discussion groups, professional equipment and so forth. He does NOT have internet access, so I am going to be the conduit. He will gladly call any phone numbers to track down and get what he wants. Deeply appreciate any help I can get, Sincerely H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 09:23:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 08:36:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Low fire instructions for DEKA Paints Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 11:30:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May27.73022.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Cindy Pesonen >At temps of 1450'F does one not get into the slumping temp? As I slump most glasses at 1250'F, which sags the glass.< Yes, that is slumping temp. I found that my enamels were not fully fusing into the base glass at lower temperatures in my old kiln. I was very satisfied with the results at that 1450 degree temp. And usually when I'm doing glass painting I am also slumping into a mold at the same time. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 10:05:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 09:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Howard and Elaine Rubin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: PLEASE, Help!!!! Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:19:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May27.81949.0> References: <<1998May27.12519.0>> Precedence: bulk Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > > Hi All, Howard here, > > I have a friend who is going to set a GLASS BLOWING studio. > > He has had years of experience, but not a large studio set-up. > > I am looking for any sites, urls, discussion groups, professional equipment > and so forth. > > He does NOT have internet access, so I am going to be the conduit. He will > gladly call any phone numbers to track down and get what he wants. > > Deeply appreciate any help I can get, Sincerely H > > weaver51@teleport.com > http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard > enmeshed in the internet > trapped in the world wide web > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass here are a few links that i have bookmarked, though i hav'nt checked them recently: http://www.crloo.com/ http://www.nerdworld.com/nw1119.html http://www.hotglass.com/links.html http://www.hotglass.com/ http://ourworld.compuserve.com:80/homepages/MikeFirth/ http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/fusion/index.html http://www.siu.edu/departments/siuglass/public_html/links.html and i don't know if their online but Whale or Wale Apperatus sells glass blowing stuff. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 10:35:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 09:20:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: Irene Merm Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: lead vs. foil Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998May27.8188.0> References: <<1998May26.202238.0>> Precedence: bulk On Tue, 26 May 1998, Irene Merm wrote: > Hi All, > > I am having a very hard time figuring out if I should do my sidelight in foil > or lead. I have done one lead panel so far but all the rest of the things I > have made have been in foil. How do you decide which you are going to do? > The pattern is not too intricate, just flowers, hummingbirds, leaves, vine and > background. I would either reinforce the piece with zinc if using lead or > reinforcing foil if doing foil. Thanks for your help. Irene Irene, Something you need to consider... A foiled piece will not need much work after it is soldered to make it weather tight. A leaded panel will need to be cemented. If you did this on your last leaded project, you know what kind of hassle this is. A sidelight should not take the abuse that a door will and will not need a great amount af reinforcing. Foil may be a better option. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 11:00:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 09:43:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: DEAN.MED.UFL.EDU!cmccall From: "Candice McCall" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Dragonfly Colours Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:41:10 EST5EDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Organization: Dean's Office, College of Medicine Precedence: bulk Hi, all. I am doing a stepping stone with a dragonfly on it. I haven't seen one in awhile in my yard and cant remember the colours on their bodies. Can someone help me out?? Thanks in advance... Candice ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 11:19:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 10:10:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: oregontrail.net!dterry From: Douglas R Terry To: Howard and Elaine Rubin , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: PLEASE, Help!!!! Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:10:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May27.31055.0> References: <<1998May27.12519.0>> Precedence: bulk Well here's a few that I think are very good. And please post your answers to the group so we can all see. Thanks Doug Terry (From the Alps of Oregon) sign up for this mail group hotglass@lists.frugal.com gas burners Joppa Glassworks(N.H.) 603-456-3569 cullet (2000 lb. min) Galbbret Cullet Co.(WV) 303-375 6435 best book(his first one is not as good) (how to blow big book) Advanced Glassblowing Techniques By Edward Schmid($32or$35) best book on equpiment(how to make http://WWW.GLASSNOTES.COM/($30?) best newsletter The Independent Glassblower($25/year) c/o David Gruenig RFD#2 Box 238-B Lyndonvill, Vt 05851 best place for color rods (Seattle Wash) http://www.glasscolor.com/ Doug Terry (From the Alps of Oregon) > I am looking for any sites, urls, discussion groups, professional equipment > and so forth. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 11:30:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 10:29:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Hope this is not offensive Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805271727.NAA07486@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk > > > The Supreme Court has agreed to hear the issue of whether public > funding > to an artist can be linked with the idea of whether the art > is 'decent.' After the Robert Mapplethorpe "scandal" not so long ago, > Congress passed a law that for an artist's art to receive public money > via the National Endowment for the Arts, it must be deemed decent. NPR > Morning Edition this morning, Nina Tottenberg said that if the Supreme > Court supports Congress, it is in effect the end of NEA. Then, > there's the question of Congressional funding: Funding for NPR / NEA & > PBS > > This petition is being passed around the Internet. Please add your > name to it so that funding can be maintained for the NEA, NPR & PBS. > Please keep this petition rolling. Do not reply to me. Please sign > and forward to others to sign. If you prefer not to sign please send > to the e-mail address indicated or return to me. Thanks. > > This is being forwarded to several people at once to add their names > to the petition. It won't matter if many people receive the same > list as the names are being managed. This is for anyone who thinks > NPR/PBS is a worthwhile expenditure of $1.12/year of their taxes, a > petition follows. If you sign, please forward on to others. If not, > please > don't kill it - send it to the email address listed here: > wein2688@blue.univn > PBS, NPR (National Public Radio), and the arts are facing major > cutbacks in funding. In spite of the efforts of each station to > reduce > spending costs and streamline their services, some government > officials > believe that the funding currently going to these programs is too > large > a > portion of funding for something which is seen as not worthwhile. > Currently, > taxe from the general public for PBS equal $1.12 per person per year, > and > the National Endowment for the Arts equals $0.64 a year. > A January 1995 CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll indicated that 76% of > Americans wish to keep funding for PBS, third only to national defense > and law enforcement as the most valuable programs for federal > funding. > Each year, the Senate and House Appropriations committees each have 13 > subcommittees with jurisdiction over many programs and agencies. Each > subcommittee passes its own appropriation bill. The goal each year is > to have each bill signed by the beginning of the fiscal year, which is > October 1. The only way that our representatives can be aware of the > base of support for PBS and funding for these types of programs is by > making our voices heard. > > Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends if you > believe in what we stand for. This list will be forwarded to the > President of the United States, the Vice President of the United > States, and Representative Newt Gingrich, who is the instigator of the > action to cut funding to these worthwhile programs. > *If you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250th, etc., signer of this > petition, please forward a copy to: > > This way we can keep track of the lists and organize them. Forward > this to everyone you know, and help us to keep these programs alive. > Thank you. > > -------------------------------------------------------- > NOTE: It is preferable that you SELECT the entirety of this letter and > then COPY it into a new outgoing message rather than simply forwarding > it. Or if option is available, do a SEND AGAIN. > -------------------------------------------------------- > 449) Edward G. Guggenheim, San Francisco, CA > 450) Thao N. Lam, Riverside, CA > 451) Antonio Rauti, Riverside, CA > 452) Carlotta Domeniconi, Riverside, CA > 453) Stephanie Fonder, Riverside, CA > 454) Sohail Nadimi, Riverside, CA > 455) Shirin Etessam, San Francisco, CA > 456) Jahanshah Javid, Albany, CA > 457) Haleh Nazeri, NY, NY > 458) Larry Weissman, NY, NY > 459) Jackie Medel, Los Angeles, CA > 458) Lynn Cantor, Los Angeles, CA > 459) Alec Bartsch, Los Angeles, CA > 460) Kim Wohlenhaus, Louisville, KY > 461) Tanya Savory, Louisville, KY > 462) Suzanne McDermott, Charleston, SC > 463) Jack Williams, Columbia SC > 464) Caroline Aiken, Atlanta, Ga. > 465) Jef Jaisun, Seattle, WA > 466: Roberta Penn, Seattle, WA > 467: karen garrett de Luna, Seattle, WA > 468: Sara Jinks, Seattle, WA > 469: Heather Kravas, Seattle, WA > 470: Jason Starkie, Seattle, WA > 471: Clarence L. Brooks, Jr, Seattle, WA > 472: Dan Froot, Los Angeles, CA > 473: Julia Carnahan, Whittier, CA > 474: Karen Nathanson, Los Angeles, CA > 475: Mark Yardas, Venice, CA > 478: Mara Schoner, Venice, CA > 479: karen maclean andersen, los angeles, ca > 480: Sharon Oster, Los Angeles, CA > 481: Eve Sanders, Los Angeles, CA > 482: Nora Johnson, Swarthmore, PA > 483: Nathalie F. Anderson, Swarthmore PA > 484: Kevin Kish, Swarthmore Pa > 485: Julia Kernochan, Swarthmore, PA > 486: Cristina Garcia, Swarthmore, PA > 487: Emily Wilkins, Swarthmore, PA > 488. Lucinda Kidder, Northfield MA > 489. Stephanie Woolley, Miami, FL > 490. Chocolate Waters, New York, NY > 491. Judith K. Witherow, Morningside, MD 20746 > 492. Steven J.Witherow, Morningside, MD 29746 > 493. Sue Lenaerts, Morningside, MD 20746 > 494. Robert Edward West, MD 21044-2538 > 495. Kathryn Ervin, CA 92346 > 496. Margaret A. Perry, Crestline, CA 92325 > 497. Yvette Ratner, Auburn, AL > 498. Robin Jaffe, Auburn, AL > 499. Oran C. Walker, Seattle, WA > 500. David A. Nochimson, Seattle, WA > 501. Charlotte Grossman, Tiburon, CA. > 502. David P. Gollub, San Francisco, CA > 503. Bruce Isaacson, Las Vegas, Nevada > 504. Kim Addonizio, San Francisco, CA > 505. Leza Lowitz, Dillon Beach, CA > 506. Jack Foley, Oakland, CA > 507. Adelle Foley, Oakland, CA > 508. Alicia Ostriker, Princeton, NJ > 509. Lisa Goldberg, NYC, NY > 510. Danielle DeCrette, NYC > 511. Leslie Castay, NYC > 512. Bryan Burkey, NYC > 513. Mark Zimmerman, NYC > 514. Barbara Tirrell, NYC > 515. Scott Killian, NYC > 516: Danial Shapiro, Minneapolis, MN > 517: Joanie Smith, Minneapolis, MN > 518: Elizabeth Van Vleck, NYC > 519: Suzie Jary, NYC > 520. Susan Johnston, Brooklyn, NY 11215 > 521: Mona Kreaden, NYC, NY > 522: Risa Morimoto New York, NY > 523: Ernesto Jarvis, Brooklyn, NY > 534: Fannie Chan, Brooklyn, NY > 535: Richard Simon, New York, NY > 536: Michael Simon, New York, NY > 537: Dwan Reece King, Hartsdale, NY > 538: Fabiana Chiu-Rinaldi, Greenwich, CT > 539: Helen Liu, Boston, MA > 540: Anne Marie Booth, Quincy, MA > 541: Lihbin Shiao, Jamaica Plain, MA > 542: Emily Houh, Detroit, MI > 543: Emmeline Kim Owyang, Boston, MA > 544: Faith Adiele, Somerville, MA > 545: Wenda Tai, Cambridge, MA > 546: Jeanne Tai, Cambridge, MA > 547: Margaret Tuitt, Somerville, MA > 548: Susan Berstler, Somerville, MA > 549: Betsy Troutman, Seattle, WA > 550: Robert Rufh, Seattle, WA > 551: Andrew Chase, Seattle, WA > 552: Kay Chase, Kalamazoo, MI > 553: Jackie Driscoll, Kalamazoo, MI > 554: Martha Driscoll, Arlington, MA > 555: Priscilla Sanville, Arlington, MA. > 556: Michael Gigante, Brattleboro, VT > 557: Carrie Yamaoka, NY, NY > 558: Joy Episalla, NY, NY > 559: Adam Simon, Hoboken, NJ > 560: Matthew Sharpe, New York, NY > 561: Nick Balaban, NY > 562: Jerry Everard, Seattle, WA > 563: Robin Hughes, Seattle, WA > 564: Lori Dirks, Seattle, WA > 565: April Richards, Seattle, WA > 566: Dawn Rains, Seattle, WA > 567: Kim Gonzales, Seattle, WA > 568: Anne Shrauner, Seattle, WA > 569: Rachel Whalen, Seattle, WA > 570: Anne Copeland, Seattle, WA > 571: Jennifer Creegan, Seattle, WA > 572: Jane Ray, Seattle, WA > 573. Jack Levinson, New York City > 574. Anne Corliss Dunham > 575. Teresa Elena Lee > 576. Bruce Gregory Shackelford > 577. Kevin Patrick Kennedy > 576. Christy Kennedy > 577. Kristi Smith, Longmont, Colorado > 578. JoAnne Zingo-Hargis, Lawrence, KS > 579. Dixie F. Lovell, St. Louis, MO > 580. Kajira Djoumahna, Santa Rosa, CA > 581. Carolena Nericcio, San Francisco, CA > 582. Nadia Khastagir, San Francisco CA > 583. James Whitehead, Oakland, Ca > 584. Tom Juarez, South San Francisco, CA > 585. Ruby Udell Grad, Woodacre, CA > 586. Sylvia Spears, San Francisco, Ca > 587. John Hanft, San Francisco, Ca. > 588. Bevan Vinton, Piedmont, CA. > 589. Anne Underwood Grant, Horse Shoe, NC > 590. Judith C. Berman, New York, NY > 591. Leonard A. Sharzer, New York, NY > 592. Edwin Schmith, Cleveland, OH > 593. Ron Wilner, Baltimore, MD > 594. Connie Parr, Baltimore, MD > 595. Cynthia A Belcher, Baltimore, MD > 596. Carol A. Mick, Upper Tract, WV > 597. John Eckman, Harrisonburg, VA > 598. Carl Droms, Linville, VA > 599. Yvonne Droms, Linville, VA > 600. Laurel M. Donahue, Portland, OR > 601. Trish Flaster, Boulder. CO > 602. Kerry Hughes, Mill Valley, CA > 603. Kevin Dickey, Mill Valley, CA > 604. Jesse Hiller, San Francisco, CA > 605. John S. Bello, San Francisco, CA > 606. Susan L. Bello, Mounds, OK > 607. Paul A. Bello, Mounds, OK > 608. Stanley Fisher, Mt Shasta, CA > 609. Gary Kelly, New York, N.Y. > 610. Cynthia Reed, New York, N.Y. > 611 Jack London, Chicago, IL > 612 Charlene Canali, Miami, FL > 613 Mark Krumich, Miami, FL > 614 Rex Benincasa, NYC, NY. > 615 Jenna Lee, NYC, NY > 616 Meghan Cary, NYC, NY > 617 Eugene Beck, Toronto,Ontario,Canada > 618 Margaret Storer, Coupeville, WA > 619 Buell Neidlinger, Coupeville, WA > 620 Darol Anger, Oakland, CA > 621 Willa Rabinovitch, Oakland, CA > 622 Jef Pertzborn, Madison, WI > 622 Jeff Laramie, Madison, WI > 633 Danny Seidenberg, Los Angeles > 634 Evan Price, Richmond, CA > 635 Mark Palms, Manchester, MI > 636 Helen Welford, Ann Arbor, MI > 637 Michael J. Ellis, Washington, DC > 638 Steven A. Munoz-Arias, Washington, DC > 639 Roger L. Raymond, Laurel, MD > 640 Cheryl S. Raymond, Laurel, MD > 641 Emily J. Brenneman, Columbia, MD > 642 Cynthia Brenneman, Rockville, MD > 643 Lori P. Field, Falls Church, VA > 644 Tahtianna Friend, Haddonfield. NJ > 645 pj friend, Haddonfield, NJ > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 11:56:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 10:50:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, Ensembles@compuserve.com Subject: Internet Message (Firing paint) Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:46:19, -0500 Message-ID: <199805271746.NAA20850@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Yes, that is slumping temp. I found that my enamels were not fully fusing into the base glass at lower temperatures in my old kiln. I was very satisfied with the results at that 1450 degree temp. And usually when I'm doing glass painting I am also slumping into a mold at the same time.<< Most glass paints will burn off at 1450'F which is a low range fusing temperature for most glass. One source (Pacific Glass Catalog, 1 800 35GLASS) says *Sone paints and enamels are stable well above the recommended firing ranges, while others will change color or density with even slight overfiring. Sometimes the changes are even good ones. * A wide range of Reusche & Co. paints, stains and enamels are available from the above source and others that mature from 1080'F to 1100'F. At these temperatures the glass will show little marking if laying on a flat kiln shelf. Of course, a fast kiln may well need to go higher to mature these paints. I am convinced that there are as many ideas for firing programs for paints as there are painters. Find out what is best for you and your kiln and do it. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 12:15:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eai.com!mrskulak From: Julie Kulak To: "Candice McCall" , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Dragonfly Colours Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:24:42 -0500 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19980527182442.00714ffc@ns.eai.com> Precedence: bulk candice, try looking up http://www.dragonflies.org/ on the web - they have a great site with beautiful reference photos! the entomology department at iowa state university has some good links in it's index as well. julie -- julie kulak scientific illustrator, guinea pig owner engineering animation, inc., chicago 312.425.8153 desk 312.425.8101 fax mrskulak@eai.com www.eai.com i am the problem to all of the world's solutions. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 12:27:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 11:27:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Dragonfly Colours Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 14:29:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May27.102936.0> Precedence: bulk Got 'em at my house, big as humming birds and their bodies are mostly metalic green with a hint of metalic blue. Linda Campbell ---------- From: Candice McCall[SMTP:cmccall@DEAN.MED.UFL.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 8:41 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Dragonfly Colours Hi, all. I am doing a stepping stone with a dragonfly on it. I haven't seen one in awhile in my yard and cant remember the colours on their bodies. Can someone help me out?? Thanks in advance... Candice ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 12:52:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 11:42:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: computer art & other things Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 14:40:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May27.104040.0> Precedence: bulk I don't believe I ever said that computer art is not art! (a little preconception on the part of = readers, perhaps?) I have done it and know what is involved. I have always made it a point to show computer art at every show in my gallery. It's perfectly valid. I just don't prefer to do it over other = media. Personal taste, not judgment. I don't think tennis is better than basketball. I don't care for either. ;-) is that more clear? On the other hand, computer art is viewed in much the same light as photography. There is a misconception that it's worth less on the art market because "anyone can take a picture"..... or learn to run the computer. Well, I would beg to differ and do... but, that's the attitude right now. On another note, glad to be back on-line. Someone sent me an e-mail with file attached that again froze up my system and took me a day and a half to clear = up with my server. Please don't send me anything with attachments - my old dawg can't handle it!! Thanks in advance. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 13:04:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 11:43:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: lead vs. foil Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 14:40:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May27.104026.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Irene- I would let your design dictate the method of construction. The more involved and curved your design, the more you might want to consider copper foil. After all, that's why Tiffany devised the method - to accomodate all those blasted leaves and petals! Or why not try a combination. Do a straight-line border in lead and the floral interior in copper foil. Then cement as usual and don't even worry about = patina on the foil soldering - the cement will do that for you. End result is very lovely. For an example, look at the Cabbage Rose panel on our IGGA = web site. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 13:33:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 12:31:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: artglass@water.waterw.com, glass@bungi.com Subject: Hope this is not offensive Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:29:11, -0500 Message-ID: <199805271929.PAA13898@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>> The Supreme Court has agreed to hear the issue of whether public > funding > to an artist can be linked with the idea of whether the art > is 'decent.'<< I'll give you a new cut on this one that may be offensive to some. What business does the government have in funding the award of money to an artist given by a committee. It seems to me that true art should be allowed to sink or swim on its own. When you award money to an artist you place him/her in a better position to succeed over others that may or may not have superior work. In summary, I do not want my government influencing what is thought to be good or bad in art through the use of my tax dollars. The Constitution provides plenty of things that deserve funding but not art. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 14:34:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 13:40:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cybersol.com!TWLARRY From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:39:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May27.123956.0> References: <<199805271727.NAA07486@water.waterw.com>> Organization: Trade Winds Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > > > > > > > The Supreme Court has agreed to hear the issue of whether public > > funding > > to an artist can be linked with the idea of whether the art > > is 'decent.' After the Robert Mapplethorpe "scandal" not so long ago, > > Congress passed a law that for an artist's art to receive public money > > via the National Endowment for the Arts, it must be deemed decent. NPR > > Morning Edition this morning, Nina Tottenberg said that if the Supreme > > Court supports Congress, it is in effect the end of NEA. Then, > > there's the question of Congressional funding: Funding for NPR / NEA & > > PBS > > > > This petition is being passed around the Internet. Please add your > > name to it so that funding can be maintained for the NEA, NPR & PBS. > > Please keep this petition rolling. Do not reply to me. Please sign > > and forward to others to sign. If you prefer not to sign please send > > to the e-mail address indicated or return to me. Thanks. > > > > This is being forwarded to several people at once to add their names > > to the petition. It won't matter if many people receive the same > > list as the names are being managed. This is for anyone who thinks > > NPR/PBS is a worthwhile expenditure of $1.12/year of their taxes, a > > petition follows. If you sign, please forward on to others. If not, > > please > > don't kill it - send it to the email address listed here: > > wein2688@blue.univn > > > PBS, NPR (National Public Radio), and the arts are facing major > > cutbacks in funding. In spite of the efforts of each station to > > reduce > > spending costs and streamline their services, some government > > officials > > believe that the funding currently going to these programs is too > > large > > a > > portion of funding for something which is seen as not worthwhile. > > Currently, > > taxe from the general public for PBS equal $1.12 per person per year, > > and > > the National Endowment for the Arts equals $0.64 a year. > > A January 1995 CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll indicated that 76% of > > Americans wish to keep funding for PBS, third only to national defense > > and law enforcement as the most valuable programs for federal > > funding. > > Each year, the Senate and House Appropriations committees each have 13 > > subcommittees with jurisdiction over many programs and agencies. Each > > subcommittee passes its own appropriation bill. The goal each year is > > to have each bill signed by the beginning of the fiscal year, which is > > October 1. The only way that our representatives can be aware of the > > base of support for PBS and funding for these types of programs is by > > making our voices heard. > > > > Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends if you > > believe in what we stand for. This list will be forwarded to the > > President of the United States, the Vice President of the United > > States, and Representative Newt Gingrich, who is the instigator of the > > action to cut funding to these worthwhile programs. > > *If you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250th, etc., signer of this > > petition, please forward a copy to: > > > > > This way we can keep track of the lists and organize them. Forward > > this to everyone you know, and help us to keep these programs alive. > > Thank you. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > NOTE: It is preferable that you SELECT the entirety of this letter and > > then COPY it into a new outgoing message rather than simply forwarding > > it. Or if option is available, do a SEND AGAIN. > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > 449) Edward G. Guggenheim, San Francisco, CA > > 450) Thao N. Lam, Riverside, CA > > 451) Antonio Rauti, Riverside, CA > > 452) Carlotta Domeniconi, Riverside, CA > > 453) Stephanie Fonder, Riverside, CA > > 454) Sohail Nadimi, Riverside, CA > > 455) Shirin Etessam, San Francisco, CA > > 456) Jahanshah Javid, Albany, CA > > 457) Haleh Nazeri, NY, NY > > 458) Larry Weissman, NY, NY > > 459) Jackie Medel, Los Angeles, CA > > 458) Lynn Cantor, Los Angeles, CA > > 459) Alec Bartsch, Los Angeles, CA > > 460) Kim Wohlenhaus, Louisville, KY > > 461) Tanya Savory, Louisville, KY > > 462) Suzanne McDermott, Charleston, SC > > 463) Jack Williams, Columbia SC > > 464) Caroline Aiken, Atlanta, Ga. > > 465) Jef Jaisun, Seattle, WA > > 466: Roberta Penn, Seattle, WA > > 467: karen garrett de Luna, Seattle, WA > > 468: Sara Jinks, Seattle, WA > > 469: Heather Kravas, Seattle, WA > > 470: Jason Starkie, Seattle, WA > > 471: Clarence L. Brooks, Jr, Seattle, WA > > 472: Dan Froot, Los Angeles, CA > > 473: Julia Carnahan, Whittier, CA > > 474: Karen Nathanson, Los Angeles, CA > > 475: Mark Yardas, Venice, CA > > 478: Mara Schoner, Venice, CA > > 479: karen maclean andersen, los angeles, ca > > 480: Sharon Oster, Los Angeles, CA > > 481: Eve Sanders, Los Angeles, CA > > 482: Nora Johnson, Swarthmore, PA > > 483: Nathalie F. Anderson, Swarthmore PA > > 484: Kevin Kish, Swarthmore Pa > > 485: Julia Kernochan, Swarthmore, PA > > 486: Cristina Garcia, Swarthmore, PA > > 487: Emily Wilkins, Swarthmore, PA > > 488. Lucinda Kidder, Northfield MA > > 489. Stephanie Woolley, Miami, FL > > 490. Chocolate Waters, New York, NY > > 491. Judith K. Witherow, Morningside, MD 20746 > > 492. Steven J.Witherow, Morningside, MD 29746 > > 493. Sue Lenaerts, Morningside, MD 20746 > > 494. Robert Edward West, MD 21044-2538 > > 495. Kathryn Ervin, CA 92346 > > 496. Margaret A. Perry, Crestline, CA 92325 > > 497. Yvette Ratner, Auburn, AL > > 498. Robin Jaffe, Auburn, AL > > 499. Oran C. Walker, Seattle, WA > > 500. David A. Nochimson, Seattle, WA > > 501. Charlotte Grossman, Tiburon, CA. > > 502. David P. Gollub, San Francisco, CA > > 503. Bruce Isaacson, Las Vegas, Nevada > > 504. Kim Addonizio, San Francisco, CA > > 505. Leza Lowitz, Dillon Beach, CA > > 506. Jack Foley, Oakland, CA > > 507. Adelle Foley, Oakland, CA > > 508. Alicia Ostriker, Princeton, NJ > > 509. Lisa Goldberg, NYC, NY > > 510. Danielle DeCrette, NYC > > 511. Leslie Castay, NYC > > 512. Bryan Burkey, NYC > > 513. Mark Zimmerman, NYC > > 514. Barbara Tirrell, NYC > > 515. Scott Killian, NYC > > 516: Danial Shapiro, Minneapolis, MN > > 517: Joanie Smith, Minneapolis, MN > > 518: Elizabeth Van Vleck, NYC > > 519: Suzie Jary, NYC > > 520. Susan Johnston, Brooklyn, NY 11215 > > 521: Mona Kreaden, NYC, NY > > 522: Risa Morimoto New York, NY > > 523: Ernesto Jarvis, Brooklyn, NY > > 534: Fannie Chan, Brooklyn, NY > > 535: Richard Simon, New York, NY > > 536: Michael Simon, New York, NY > > 537: Dwan Reece King, Hartsdale, NY > > 538: Fabiana Chiu-Rinaldi, Greenwich, CT > > 539: Helen Liu, Boston, MA > > 540: Anne Marie Booth, Quincy, MA > > 541: Lihbin Shiao, Jamaica Plain, MA > > 542: Emily Houh, Detroit, MI > > 543: Emmeline Kim Owyang, Boston, MA > > 544: Faith Adiele, Somerville, MA > > 545: Wenda Tai, Cambridge, MA > > 546: Jeanne Tai, Cambridge, MA > > 547: Margaret Tuitt, Somerville, MA > > 548: Susan Berstler, Somerville, MA > > 549: Betsy Troutman, Seattle, WA > > 550: Robert Rufh, Seattle, WA > > 551: Andrew Chase, Seattle, WA > > 552: Kay Chase, Kalamazoo, MI > > 553: Jackie Driscoll, Kalamazoo, MI > > 554: Martha Driscoll, Arlington, MA > > 555: Priscilla Sanville, Arlington, MA. > > 556: Michael Gigante, Brattleboro, VT > > 557: Carrie Yamaoka, NY, NY > > 558: Joy Episalla, NY, NY > > 559: Adam Simon, Hoboken, NJ > > 560: Matthew Sharpe, New York, NY > > 561: Nick Balaban, NY > > 562: Jerry Everard, Seattle, WA > > 563: Robin Hughes, Seattle, WA > > 564: Lori Dirks, Seattle, WA > > 565: April Richards, Seattle, WA > > 566: Dawn Rains, Seattle, WA > > 567: Kim Gonzales, Seattle, WA > > 568: Anne Shrauner, Seattle, WA > > 569: Rachel Whalen, Seattle, WA > > 570: Anne Copeland, Seattle, WA > > 571: Jennifer Creegan, Seattle, WA > > 572: Jane Ray, Seattle, WA > > 573. Jack Levinson, New York City > > 574. Anne Corliss Dunham > > 575. Teresa Elena Lee > > 576. Bruce Gregory Shackelford > > 577. Kevin Patrick Kennedy > > 576. Christy Kennedy > > 577. Kristi Smith, Longmont, Colorado > > 578. JoAnne Zingo-Hargis, Lawrence, KS > > 579. Dixie F. Lovell, St. Louis, MO > > 580. Kajira Djoumahna, Santa Rosa, CA > > 581. Carolena Nericcio, San Francisco, CA > > 582. Nadia Khastagir, San Francisco CA > > 583. James Whitehead, Oakland, Ca > > 584. Tom Juarez, South San Francisco, CA > > 585. Ruby Udell Grad, Woodacre, CA > > 586. Sylvia Spears, San Francisco, Ca > > 587. John Hanft, San Francisco, Ca. > > 588. Bevan Vinton, Piedmont, CA. > > 589. Anne Underwood Grant, Horse Shoe, NC > > 590. Judith C. Berman, New York, NY > > 591. Leonard A. Sharzer, New York, NY > > 592. Edwin Schmith, Cleveland, OH > > 593. Ron Wilner, Baltimore, MD > > 594. Connie Parr, Baltimore, MD > > 595. Cynthia A Belcher, Baltimore, MD > > 596. Carol A. Mick, Upper Tract, WV > > 597. John Eckman, Harrisonburg, VA > > 598. Carl Droms, Linville, VA > > 599. Yvonne Droms, Linville, VA > > 600. Laurel M. Donahue, Portland, OR > > 601. Trish Flaster, Boulder. CO > > 602. Kerry Hughes, Mill Valley, CA > > 603. Kevin Dickey, Mill Valley, CA > > 604. Jesse Hiller, San Francisco, CA > > 605. John S. Bello, San Francisco, CA > > 606. Susan L. Bello, Mounds, OK > > 607. Paul A. Bello, Mounds, OK > > 608. Stanley Fisher, Mt Shasta, CA > > 609. Gary Kelly, New York, N.Y. > > 610. Cynthia Reed, New York, N.Y. > > 611 Jack London, Chicago, IL > > 612 Charlene Canali, Miami, FL > > 613 Mark Krumich, Miami, FL > > 614 Rex Benincasa, NYC, NY. > > 615 Jenna Lee, NYC, NY > > 616 Meghan Cary, NYC, NY > > 617 Eugene Beck, Toronto,Ontario,Canada > > 618 Margaret Storer, Coupeville, WA > > 619 Buell Neidlinger, Coupeville, WA > > 620 Darol Anger, Oakland, CA > > 621 Willa Rabinovitch, Oakland, CA > > 622 Jef Pertzborn, Madison, WI > > 622 Jeff Laramie, Madison, WI > > 633 Danny Seidenberg, Los Angeles > > 634 Evan Price, Richmond, CA > > 635 Mark Palms, Manchester, MI > > 636 Helen Welford, Ann Arbor, MI > > 637 Michael J. Ellis, Washington, DC > > 638 Steven A. Munoz-Arias, Washington, DC > > 639 Roger L. Raymond, Laurel, MD > > 640 Cheryl S. Raymond, Laurel, MD > > 641 Emily J. Brenneman, Columbia, MD > > 642 Cynthia Brenneman, Rockville, MD > > 643 Lori P. Field, Falls Church, VA > > 644 Tahtianna Friend, Haddonfield. NJ > > 645 pj friend, Haddonfield, NJ > > 646 Laurence B. Nordhoff Watervliet, MI. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 15:34:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 14:44:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!crzylynna From: "Lynn Alchin" To: "Candice McCall" , Subject: Re: Dragonfly Colours Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 14:48:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May27.74848.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Candice; I made the same type of stepping stone, and I used this FANTASTIC Uroboros green that has a glittery type substance in it, and also the same glass, but in a yellow/orange/tan combination. I used a ruby red cathedral glass for the circle. I used a beige colored cement to do it in. I hope this helps you> I will try to find the mfg.. # when I get home if you'd like me to. Lynn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 16:33:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 15:50:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: NEA Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 18:48:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May27.144839.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Bob- I'll ditto your cut and offend a few more artists! Having been born and raised in Germany, I know that a society can and does support art without an endowment coming into play. Not that European tax money doesn't buy art, = but it does so the same way it buys plumbing services, architecture, and things like toilet paper. They play the role of the customer, not Big Daddy doling out allowances to a special few. The NEA hasn't done me any personal good - if anything, I've had to overcome a second-hand negative reputation as a result of some of the more notorious projects they've funded. If I had pulled some of those stunts in my business, it would have gone kaplooey years ago! I would have lost my reputation. I would have lost my shirt. I would be out of business because there's no one waiting in the wings to give me a handout. Not Mom and Pop and certainly not Big Brother. Yes, the NEA funding amounts to a paltry sum of money per capita. But, as a lump sum it's a nice chunk of change. Do something meaningful with it like = provide educational programs for school districts that are cutting their art budgets left and right. Teach children to appreciate art, to buy it for themselves, to consider art as a career option. At the very least, if = taxpayer money is being used to buy public art, buy art that most of the public can enjoy. Yes, folks, that means buy = "safe" art. And, you know what? It doesn't have to be boring! Good art = does not have to be controversial, offensive, sexist, alarming, or negative to be GOOD! If you want to produce art with the above labels, go for it.... but, it's a bit much to = expect the taxpayers to pick up the tab! And, on a final note, I also agree with Ayn Rand's observation of Pop-Art during the sixties.... (paraphrased) she asks the question why we cannot produce art that reflects our society as it can and should be.... not as it is. Why indeed? Face it, Pop Art left a whole lot of everyday folks scratching their heads (so much for = popular art). And artists like me, today are struggling to make a decent living because American society simply does not support the arts. When was the last time you purchased an original piece of art from a local artist? If it's been in the last year, give yourself a pat on the back. You're unusual. You support the arts ..... I'll say it again.... the only way = that counts. By, dipping into your own pocketbook and buying it. Lip service doesn't count and that's mosly what we get. = Okay, off the soapbox, now that I've = offended a few artists and consumers alike! Not to worry, I'm just as vocal in my own hometown! And, hopefully not offensive while I'm differing. What does this have to do with glass? Stained glass is art. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 19:34:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 19:03:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: cost of books Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:25:50 +1000 Message-ID: <1998May28.202550.0> Precedence: bulk > Let's have a little more responsibility in our zeal to share > information. > Sorry, I thought I was okay in the zeal department ... and that I > was comparing retail cost of the book. So the Aussie price is > delivered anywhere, even the US? Well, it looks like we have a discussion on world economics instead of glass but here is my side of the story: My quoted price was just over the wholesale price, which means i would make only about 60 cents "profit" on the sale (hardly covers my costs at all) The problem is that the refered book (how to design stained glass) is printed in the USA and sent here to a wholesaler in Australia who makes more profit selling it to me, so if i have to send it back to the US it makes sense that it's going to end up dearer than getting it direct from amazon.com i suppose i won't have any chance of selling anything through the web unless it's manufactured right here. I suppose i should abandon stained glass and get into Akubra hats and Vegemite ????? Harlequin Leadlight Home page http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 19:57:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 19:04:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: lead vs foil Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:44:49 +1000 Message-ID: <1998May28.204449.0> Precedence: bulk i think that foil was first used as a substitute for small lead. so if you do finer work and can't get a lead came small enough for the job then you switch to foil. i believe the smallest lead came is 3mm across the top and the large foil once applied would create a join about the same width. Just think of foil as a came cast in situ. And i don't know of any rules that says you can't mix both in the same panel. I have seen details of Tiffany windows using both techniques side by side. Harlequin Leadlight Home page http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 20:04:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 19:37:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: Kris To: Candice McCall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dragonfly Colours Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:33:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May27.183325.0> References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Pick a color, any color! Here in FL I've seen about everything, The most amazing are the intense pink ones, but there are also a lot of green and blue ones, usually a shimmering metalic color. Good idea to look on the web for actual pictures. Will you put a pic on the gallery page when you're done? :) Kris Candice McCall wrote: > > Hi, all. I am doing a stepping stone with a > dragonfly on it. I haven't seen one in awhile in > my yard and cant remember the colours on their > bodies. Can someone help me out?? > > Thanks in advance... > Candice ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 22:04:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 21:27:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: YWAH36A@prodigy.com Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 00:20:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May27.202040.0> References: <<199805271929.PAA13898@mime3.prodigy.com>> Precedence: bulk Never could understand what business the gov't has spending a cent on art while even one child in this country is going to bed hungry. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Wed, 27 May 1998 15:29:11, -0500 YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) writes: >>>> The Supreme Court has agreed to hear the issue of whether >public >> funding >> to an artist can be linked with the idea of whether the art >> is 'decent.'<< > >I'll give you a new cut on this one that may be offensive to some. >What business does the government have in funding the award of money >to an artist given by a committee. It seems to me that true art >should be allowed to sink or swim on its own. When you award money to >an artist you place him/her in a better position to succeed over >others that may or may not have superior work. In summary, I do not >want my government influencing what is thought to be good or bad in >art through the use of my tax dollars. The Constitution provides >plenty of things that deserve funding but not art. Bob > >____ >Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 >Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed May 27 23:50:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 23:24:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:50:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May27.15506.0> Precedence: bulk >From the sounds of this thread perhaps we should eliminate art galleries, theaters, and the Olympics while we are at it. Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: BOB DUCHESNEAU [SMTP:YWAH36A@prodigy.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 5:00 PM To: artglass@water.waterw.com; glass@bungi.com Subject: Hope this is not offensive I'll give you a new cut on this one that may be offensive to some. What business does the government have in funding the award of money to an artist given by a committee. It seems to me that true art should be allowed to sink or swim on its own. When you award money to an artist you place him/her in a better position to succeed over others that may or may not have superior work. In summary, I do not want my government influencing what is thought to be good or bad in art through the use of my tax dollars. The Constitution provides plenty of things that deserve funding but not art. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 00:03:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 23:28:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, dodgestudio@juno.com Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 02:26:11, -0500 Message-ID: <199805280626.CAA20904@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Never could understand what business the gov't has spending a cent on art while even one child in this country is going to bed hungry. Gary Dodge<< God bless you: what a good idea. $200,000,000.00 stills buys a lot of food. It is embarassing to admit that we are spending money on fine art grants when the basics have not been taken care of first. Do this in the private family and the government may take your children away. Dani's thought that the government could spend the money on art programs for schools is now a close second to me. I seem to recall that some very rich people pushed this thing through the Congress. What an ego trip! But I digress, I like your style. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 05:58:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 05:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: thecia.net!pcm From: Philip McRae To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:30:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.43014.0> References: <<199805271727.NAA07486@water.waterw.com>> Precedence: bulk I see no reason for my tax dollars to support the luxurious life of Barney, Big Bird, the art of soaking religious symbols in urine, and overt political statements aimed at our children to subvert the authority of parents. PBS in Boston (Channel 2, 44, 36, University of Mass Amherst radio, and television station, cable channel covering all of Cape Cod, managing several other stations, their own 89.7 radio station in Boston operates with a non-profit liscense. Do you know that the WGBH station owners operate the largest catalog order fulfillment center in the world. This non-profit organization turned a profit of over 30 Million dollars last physical year. Why should I support the liberal left who claim to help the poor and downtrodden by taking my contribution and using it to enhance their personal grand lifestyle. Ever notice that the non-profits live in exclusive housing, their offices are only in the best of building, they stay in only the finest of hotels. I would rather give to the local YMCA and give a child a real chance. Do you really enjoy watching the far fringes of society receive free money to squander on worthless art, amoral shows, unpatriotic programs, and live a lifestyle of perversion unkown to any society in world history, using your money, your hard earned money, the tax dollar that would have sent your child to a tutor to learn how to read because the teachers at his school can hardly read themselves. To clear a point from above. WGBH foundation owns the catalog business, not a private group. They are the licence holders of non-profit, the ones who take your tax dollar and deprive our children the needed education they deserve. Just remember the next time you order Slim Whitman's recordings you may be giving your money to a non-profiteer. You have make bungi a political list by posting your message. I'm responding in like manner. Philip McRae pcm@thecia.net pj friend wrote: > > > > > > The Supreme Court has agreed to hear the issue of whether public > > funding > > to an artist can be linked with the idea of whether the art > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 07:00:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 06:24:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:22:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805281322.JAA22134@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk >Hi Gary, > >Probably if they (NEA) didn't spend any money on art most awareness would be zip. >Art programs being cut right and left by school systems. > >If the NEA didn't help fund museums and exhibits they just wouldn't exist. Art patrons have just about gone by the wayside. Ask most artist who are just starting out. >These are not the Picasso days. Exposure is harder and harder to recieve. > > >There are still some private foundations that will fund art programs and exhibits >but not really the big money that the NEA has been allowed. > >And alot of arts organizations would go hungry. > >Children or even anyone going hungry in this country is a whole other topic >and we could trade dollar for dollar of wasted government spending that >could be directed elsewhere for this purpose. > >my best, >pj > > >>Never could understand what business the gov't has spending a cent on art >>while even one child in this country is going to bed hungry. >> >>Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 07:24:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 06:25:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: loy.org!dlyons From: Darlene Lyons To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: pattern for chicago skyline Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:22:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May28.3227.0> Precedence: bulk Do you have a pattern for the Chicago Skyline that is not to elaborate? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 07:38:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 06:27:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: PLEASE, Help!!!! Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:25:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.52537.0> Precedence: bulk Howard, For suppliers of glassblowing equipment & supplies (including kiln, glory hole & annealing oven manufacturers), you can check out the IGGA's on-line Source Guide. www.bungi.com/glass/igga and look for the Sources Guide. BTW, I just received my Spring 1998 IGGA "Common Ground" magazine, which contains the updated Sources Guide. Excellent job from Melanie Dunstan and Albert Lewis, as well as all the contributors. And some WONDERFUL photos of Bandhu Scott Dunham's flameworked art. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 07:42:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 06:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:20:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.52028.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk I'm not sure what the controversy is about regarding the government/art/money. The government has been awarding grants to artists for decades. I think the issue is should tax dollars be spent for subsidizing art the government considers to be "obscene", i.e., Robert Maplethorpe's photographs, which I believe started all of this about 9 or l0 years ago. I agree $200,000,000 or $2,000, whatever the amount, would be better spent on programs that help people, children's programs, medical insurance,etc. The point is, unless one has a private sponsor, an artist may have to apply for a grant from the government, which would help to sustain him/her while they are trying to establish themselves. I think everyone knows this has been the practice of our government for years and I would hate to see some type of subsidy abandoned. Changed; yes, a loan such as a college loan perhaps might be an alternative. The real issue is censorship. Should the government be allowed to decide for us what is decent and what isn't. Who should the government award a grant to - someone who's work they approve of, or from a personal standpoint say we believe this artist to be obscene and therefore will not consider him for a grant. I don't think the bungi list should be political either, but I do hate censorship of any kind. The Robert Maplethorpe issue, which I personally felt was obscene, did start this ball rolling, only it seems to be rolling more towards something I don't believe belongs in this country; censorship. I am not a "left wing liberal"...just someone who believes that the amount spent in this country towards the arts is minimal at best, and perhaps taking away this amount of money from the military, whose work I consider to be obscene, might be an equitable way of handling this.. No need to sling arrows at me for my viewpoint, it has been this way after a good deal of thought years ago, nor call me a left wing liberal, which some people feel is an offensive title, because I'm not even that. I'm a person who tries to think for herself, not let others do it for her. Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 07:58:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 06:44:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mirrors (once more) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 06:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805281343.GAA02412@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Barbara, Use the spray can! Finger polish is taking a step backwards, unless you can put it in an air brush. Somethings that come to pass with progress are the world above the others:) Smiles,Cindy > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 08:13:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 06:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: computer art Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 06:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805281353.GAA17311@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Very sorry if I got the wrong idea, pea brain at work again! Smiles, Cindy Dani spells it out for me; >I don't believe I ever said that >computer art is not art! (a little >preconception on the part of = > >readers, perhaps?) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 08:34:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 07:31:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop.we.mediaone.net!slally From: Sean Lally To: " BOB DUCHESNEAU" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 98 07:29:40 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk BOB DUCHESNEAU YWAH36A@prodigy.com on 27/5/98 13:31 said: >The Constitution provides >plenty of things that deserve funding but not art. I think I'd rather see them spend the little they do on promoting art than wasting the vast amounts they do on the military [I've been there and seen the waste first hand]. Maybe the Constitution needs some more amending. Promoting art fosters understanding, tolerance, and helps give us a common foundation for communication, which in the long run is good for us all (hungry children included). Anywho, I'm sure my thoughts could have been developed into a 1500 word essay but I'm running late for work. Just wanted to present an opposing view in a level-headed manner without, hopefully, raising anyones blood pressure. :^) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 08:40:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 08:04:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: Glenn Spicer Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998May28.65911.0> References: <<1998May27.15506.0>> Precedence: bulk On Wed, 27 May 1998, Glenn Spicer wrote: > >From the sounds of this thread perhaps we should eliminate art galleries, theaters, and the Olympics while we are at it. > Glenn Spicer, > The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada No one said nor implied that! If art can't support itself, then it isn't something that people want to look at or don't enjoy. Why then should taxpayers be ask to support it. IF a gangster rapper asked for money so that he/she could make another albums to promote the killing of policeman, should we also give them money? The city of Baltimore asked for and was granted a large amount of money under this federal "art" program to paint bridges a few years back. It would have been turned down except they painted them different colors. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 09:17:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 08:39:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: Carol Tombro Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:36:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998May28.73648.0> References: <<1998May28.52028.0>> Precedence: bulk I just came upon a realization about this thread. Those of you who think the government should subsidize artist or groups that support artists. think about this. This program would support artists and art work that can't earn enough money to live on. In other words, no one wants to buy the art for a lot of money. To follow this line a little further, (probably, I might add right into the "flaming" depths) this art, since no one wants to buy it, is not good art. Therefore, we can reason that if it is not good art, it must be fair to bad art. Now we are down to this fact, you want the government to give money to people who are producing or supporting art that no one wants. I don't get it. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 09:37:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 08:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: Carol Tombro Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998May28.7161.0> References: <<1998May28.52028.0>> Precedence: bulk On Thu, 28 May 1998, Carol Tombro wrote: > I'm not sure what the controversy is about regarding the > government/art/money. The government has been awarding grants to > artists for decades. I think the issue is should tax dollars be spent > for subsidizing art the government considers to be "obscene", i.e., > Robert Maplethorpe's photographs, which I believe started all of this > about 9 or l0 years ago. > > I agree $200,000,000 or $2,000, whatever the amount, would be better > spent on programs that help people, children's programs, medical > insurance,etc. The point is, unless one has a private sponsor, an > artist may have to apply for a grant from the government, which would > help to sustain him/her while they are trying to establish themselves. > I think everyone knows this has been the practice of our government for > years and I would hate to see some type of subsidy abandoned. Changed; > yes, a loan such as a college loan perhaps might be an alternative. > > The real issue is censorship. Should the government be allowed to > decide for us what is decent and what isn't. Who should the government > award a grant to - someone who's work they approve of, or from a > personal standpoint say we believe this artist to be obscene and > therefore will not consider him for a grant. I don't think the bungi > list should be political either, but I do hate censorship of any kind. > The Robert Maplethorpe issue, which I personally felt was obscene, did > start this ball rolling, only it seems to be rolling more towards > something I don't believe belongs in this country; censorship. I am not > a "left wing liberal"...just someone who believes that the amount spent > in this country towards the arts is minimal at best, and perhaps taking > away this amount of money from the military, whose work I consider to be > obscene, might be an equitable way of handling this.. > > No need to sling arrows at me for my viewpoint, it has been this way > after a good deal of thought years ago, nor call me a left wing liberal, > which some people feel is an offensive title, because I'm not even > that. I'm a person who tries to think for herself, not let others do it > for her. You make some interesting points, but the problem still remains. If the government gives a grant to one artist, it must give a grant to all "artists". Another name for this is welfare. If I were to lose my job and take my life savings and drop it on setting up an "art studio" in my home, I can apply for and receive a grant to produce art. I have very little artistic talent. Also my 3 year old produces work after work of "art". Is she entitled to a grant too? You see the premise of the government is that ALL the people should benefit from a law. That's not how it works anymore. It is the federal subsidies to the rich that are threatening the lives of the "not rich". I do agree that the issue here is decency, because it is obscene that in our society there are people who feel that tax dollars should be spent on luxory items such as art when there are people starving, or suffering, or dying from lack of appropriate medical care. If your carreer as an artist isn't paying the bills then it is time for you to look for another carreer. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 09:41:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 08:26:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive/who decides Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:28:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May28.12813.0> Precedence: bulk I also feel monies can be better spent/wasted than for supporting public art. If an artist/craftsperson was left to sink or swim on their own, we certainly would be missing a lot of "stuff" we feel is controversial, as who would be willing to support the person who is doing it by paying for it. BUT, I am not comfortable with censorship, VERY specifically who is doing the censorship. I certainly feel congress (inhabitants of) have no right to dictate my life style after seeing and hearing how they conduct their lives and "do" business. The internet is a fine example of freedom, and the spears jabbed into it every time the media can use it for a scapegoat for assigning blame. Who would you like to assign for censoring what information it may purvey. I did FIND a segment of the net that was not available for awhile, but is back.....something as simple the "reverse phone directory" was under consideration for censorship and or removal....however XXX is alive and thriving and producing money, again, let it be, as long it as it is LEGAL. Legal seems to be determined by the better ( worse) of the attorneys arguing it (but that is another topic). enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 10:16:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 09:15:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 00:20:53 +0000 Message-ID: <199805281651.MAA15201@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > No one said nor implied that! If art can't support itself, then it isn't > something that people want to look at or don't enjoy. I've been biting my lip to keep from saying anything, but I guess I'm going to have to spout off, too. If public acceptance of an artist's work is the measure against which one decides whether the art is "good" or "bad," then "bad" art was created by Van Gogh, most of the Fauves, all of the Dadaists, and quite a few other currently acknowledged "good" artists. They were not accepted by their public, died lonely, impoverished deaths, yet we would all agree that their work was and is "good" art. I think it's the role of government, meaning *our role as excercised by our representatives in government, who are citizens like ourselves, to support the arts. If we don't agree with what they decide, then we can vote them out of office. But to throw out the arts and artists along with the appointees with whom we disagree is tossing the baby out with the bath water. The arts are an important expression of any people; Americans as a people have artists and if Americans support their artists and the arts, encourage them and make the arts part of our cities, towns and national life, we are all enriched by that. My 2c. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 11:07:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 10:24:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:24:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.92414.0> Precedence: bulk (edited) Now we are down to this fact, you want the government to give money to people who are producing or supporting art that no one wants. I don't get it. Bob Thank you...I have enjoyed the input from all people on this very controversial subject. I do watch the programs on PBS, that I'm interested in. Or know nothing about because I am given a view into another world, that I haven't seen because it's not commercially advantages for someone somewhere...I might not agree with what is produced or said, but I have the option of turning it off. Thank God for freedom. IMHO...art does make people feel things, love,fear, compassion and beauty. A window into the soul of another person. I do have to listen to a NBR (National Public Radio) station now. To listen...believe or not.. to traditional jazz, like Miles Davis, Louie Armstrong,Duke Ellington...why because the only radio station that broadcasted it was not commercially profitable..so the big multinational corporations changed the format to make more money. Just, two months ago the Classical station in Detroit stopped broadcasting...why because of money again... So, for a $1.12 a year out of my tax dollars, to educate, enhance freedom of expression,stop commercial censorship and create feelings and thought is cheap.... Just My Humble Opinion, Jill Medlyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 11:37:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 10:55:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive/who decides Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:53:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.95355.0> Precedence: bulk Government censorship is only an issue because government funding is an issue. Don't spend any taxpayer money on the arts and freedom of artistic expression will prevail. If I'm paying for it and you're not forced to look at it in the public square, I can create = anything I want, display it wherever I want, sell it to whomever I want. The beauty of this approach is that it gives the artist total freedom and control (as well as responsibility).... of course, this approach very often fails because (also being human) many artists can't handle the above. Something to think about. = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 11:53:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 10:56:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:54:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.95410.0> Precedence: bulk HI Glenn- The Olympics in this country are privately funded as are most galleries and theaters. Exceptions, of course, = would be any of the above facilities attached to an academic environment. Michael and I donate LOTS to local fundraising ventures and some of those non-profits include our symphony, the zoo (total private funding), the opera guild, our fine arts center, our children's museum... and the list goes on. Most are privately funded, and if they get any- thing from local government, it's a tiny amount. No, it isn't easy to survive, but I'm proud to say they're not just hanging on, but succeeding.... and in a city that's notoriously bad for supporting the arts! Not only can it be done, I believe it's a = better way. IMPO. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios Best, Dani Greer Colorado Springs, CO (Home of the Olympic Training Center) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 12:08:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 11:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: alewis@vgernet.net, glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:22:42, -0500 Message-ID: <199805281822.OAA17994@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk Albert wrote. >> But to throw out the arts and artists along with the appointees with whom we disagree is tossing the baby out with the bath water.<< Hey Albert, the point made had little do do with throwing anyone out. The issue here is that some of us do not agree that some artists should be supported with public funds. It hurts the rest of us and inpinges on our lively hood. America is about free enterprise and NOT about what the government thinks I should think is art. Please no one think that I am against museums, art in public buildings or nuclear submarines. I like all three in their proper place. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 12:42:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 11:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive 1. Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:25:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May28.42550.0> Precedence: bulk There seems to be certain basic issues here 1. Should government (tax) money be spent on art at all? 2. Should government (tax) money be spent on helping artists? 3. What priority does art have in government spending? 4. Should the government be involved in deciding what is art (acceptable art, censorship)? 5. Should there be censorship? 5. Is there a point to supporting Con Art, Obscene Art, Violent Art, Bad Art? 6. What is considered Con Art, Obscene Art, Violent Art, Bad Art.? 7. And as H says, who decides? That is a lot of ground to cover and I can see this thread going on for a while. For those of us who are experienced in stained glass this could be an interesting diversion from the daily bungi. Wish I had more time to give to it. I'll try to deal with this a bit at a time from my point of view. 1. Should government (tax) money be spent on art at all? -- So far the only reasonable arguments seem, IMHO, come from Sally and Albert others, like Bob, seem to be reacting to an emotional personal complaint based on frustration of the waste of their tax money (with which I do sympathize) and lack of art appreciation, but the with the relatively small amount spent on art/craft by the government, the amount should not be an issue, rather perhaps that it should be spent wisely. Albert was the most elegant in addressing this issue. Non-functional art, public art for viewing by the people at large, should by it's nature be a little tempered and less controversial and chosen by a panel of planners, public reps, and art consultants from submissions from a "call to artists". Many cities have a %age requirement on new buildings being built that is used for art enhancement of new buildings or renovations. This is a good approach and does not use tax money, puts up art for general enjoyment, and the companies putting up structures return something to the public. Galleries that serve to preserve art of society, needs greater license and less censorship as to their purchases, as they are the record keepers of the art of the times and past, good or bad in the mind of the public, reflecting the trends of the tastes of that period, usually a reflection of the middle and upper class as the lower class is too busy surviving to be involved or care. An aside, an Idealist view, if the money spent on war was spent on taking care of the basic needs of all peoples, there would be no war, and lots of money left over for art and leisure. Unfortunately we do not live in utopia. We live in a world where greed and fear prevail, so the public art can bring some pleasure for those who cannot afford art . I'll get into censorship and good and bad art latter. Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 13:04:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:02:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 03:07:25 +0000 Message-ID: <199805281938.PAA04918@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > So, for a $1.12 a year out of my tax dollars, to educate, enhance freedom of > expression,stop commercial censorship and create feelings and thought is > cheap.... Hear, hear! Well said, Jill. I agree that we would all be surprised by the sudden change in our lives if the arts were no longer supported in the U.S. Not only would NPR disappear (because most of its listeners -- myself included don't cough up any financial support for it), but thousands of other programs would vanish. I don't, however, agree that a commercial radio station (for example) that decides to switch from classical to country western is a form of censorship. They're not non-profit. They're there expressly to *make a profit. If C&W is more profitable, fine. I won't listen to them any more, but not because I think they're censoring anything; I'm just not interested in C&W (usually ... there are exceptions). I'd like to listen to the Glass Orchestra or Philip Glass (see? back on topic!) than Garth Brooks or Tammy Wynette, but obviously the market for the latter is greater than for the former, since there are very few stations that'll play the former. No listening audience results in no/low advertising income. No ad income means no money to pay staff. No staff? No station. No station? No business. That's why support for the arts (to take only NPR and its ilk as an example) is important: to allow that which isn't otherwise "commercial" continue to exist. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 13:13:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 03:07:25 +0000 Message-ID: <199805281938.PAA04914@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Hey Albert, the point made had little do do with throwing anyone out. > The issue here is that some of us do not agree that some artists > should be supported with public funds. It hurts the rest of us and > inpinges on our lively hood. America is about free enterprise and NOT > about what the government thinks I should think is art. Bob, I understood the point that was being made. I was making (perhaps) a different point. Most developed countries throughout the world proudly and thoroughly support the arts. That means they "reward" artists who are doing "good" work, according to "experts" who have been hired by the people (the government) to decide who and what is deserving. The United States is 'way behind the curve in terms of support for arts. I really don't think that anyone here has been hurt in terms of their livelihood because someone else has been given a grant by the NEA or some other government agency. Heck, if General Motors can be subsidized by the people of this country (read: "government") because otherwise they'd go out of business and thousands of people would be put out of work; if the people of this country can subsidize the farmers who raise tobacco because otherwise R.J.Reynolds would have a tough time turning a buck; etc., etc. in the way of welfare for the rich, then I see nothing at all wrong with the people of this country helping an artist (and it *is usually helpful, rather than supportive of any outrageous lifestyle). In that case, once again, it's the "government" (meaning we the people) who've decided that that artist is deserving. Example: Maya Angelou is a poet. Know any rich poets? Are you aware of the licentious lifestyle being lived by Angelou? No. She's a college professor (which means she earns less than your garbageman) and her poetry is strictly an artistic output. In recognition of her excellence as a poet, though, she received NEA grants from the American people to help her continue to produce art. Otherwise, in order to get by, she (like many artists) would have had to wait tables, etc., thus taking time and energy away from her art. I think the real complaint here is that issue is being taken with the artists chosen by those who have been asked to decide who is worthy and meritorious of receiving such aid and encouragement, such support and thanks from the American people (the "government"). Hence my comments about putting the deciders out of office rather than merely eliminating the entire thing. Heck, I've often felt thankful for a book, a poem, a piece of music and 2-3 times in my life have been fortunate enough to actually *meet the author, poet, composer ... okay, it's usually movie stars ... and was able to personally say "Thank you." Since most artists don't want to meet 280 million Americans who want to say thank you, we've asked a committee of knowledgeable specialists to do it for us. If we don't like the decisions they make, we can ask our representatives to fire them, please. If our representatives won't, we can get new representatives. Is this a great country, or what? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 13:26:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:07:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 03:12:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199805281943.PAA05218@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Right, 100 years from now "Piss Christ", the picture of Christ submerged Yikes! You obviously know much more about twisted art and artists than I do. I'm outta here. It's gettin' too deep for my fair soul. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 13:39:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:16:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: New IGGA issues going up Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 03:21:48 +0000 Message-ID: <199805281952.PAA05718@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk What'd I do today? I started uploading the most recent four issues of Common Ground: Glass. The 13th issue's up ... Summer '97 ... and the rest should be up this week. Issue 13's at: http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/cindex13.htm if you're interested. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 13:40:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:41:16 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May28.54116.0> Precedence: bulk I think, Bob, that you will find that *free enterprise* gets lots of government funding for research and development, farmers get government subsidies, and on and on. I doubt if the USA is any different on this account. So why all the hoopla about funds for artists. By the way, are you an artist, an artisan, a craftsperson, a hobbyist, a manufacturer, or a business man with a stained glass studio/store? guess I will have to find time to give my opinions on that one too ;-) Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: BOB DUCHESNEAU [SMTP:YWAH36A@prodigy.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 5:00 PM To: alewis@vgernet.net; glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive The issue here is that some of us do not agree that some artists should be supported with public funds. It hurts the rest of us and inpinges on our lively hood. America is about free enterprise and NOT about what the government thinks I should think is art. ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 13:56:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 12:34:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:33:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.113312.0> Precedence: bulk Albert! None of the artists you mentioned were supported by their respective governments in order to produce art! And, against popular sentiment of the time, they still managed to find a place in the history books! So, how does that prove your argument that the government should be = involved in the arts? In fact, you prove my position that art will prevail without government involvement. I need only look to my sister city to the North (Denver) to see the abominations in art and = architecture that their very generous art tax has provided - chosen by the mayor's office. Their decisions have been so bad, that hardly a day goes by without the media reporting some statement of outrage from the citizenry. Should they have a right to complain - of course! It's their money paying for the stuff. I do this work every day for a living. And, like most small businesses, I've = developed a rather libertarian outlook on government. The less they're involved in my life, the less they're required to do, the happier I am. Government is terribly inept. Why would I want them involved with anything as important = to me as my art? If they want to buy = art from me... fine. But, a hand-out? No thanks. I like the European way and it can work just fine in America, too. The = end result will be that artists will have to earn the respect they need to flourish by entering the marketplace and operating the way any other business does. And, you know what? I think at that point the public will really start supporting the arts again.... by buying it. Such a sweet dream. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 14:13:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 13:21:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:14:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May28.6148.0> Precedence: bulk Further to this, do you feel that we should give flood relief to those building houses and farms on a flood plain? Why should they be supported with public funds, I mean where did they think the word flood plain came from. Should we be expected to pay this dumb move with public funds? What about over fishing to the point of wiping out complete species of fish then demanding public funds for relief? I could go on, but you get the idea. Why do you have such a thing against funding for artists. There will always be some abuse in any system, would be nice not to have it, but in the meantime do we "throw the baby out with the wash" to quote a well known man about bungi? Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: BOB DUCHESNEAU [SMTP:YWAH36A@prodigy.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 5:00 PM To: alewis@vgernet.net; glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive The issue here is that some of us do not agree that some artists should be supported with public funds. It hurts the rest of us and inpinges on our lively hood. ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 14:29:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 13:27:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!GSFOLEY From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:24:41 EDT Message-ID: <1998May28.202441.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_896387082_boundary Content-ID: <0_896387082@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_896387082_boundary Content-ID: <0_896387082@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <> Received: from relay07.mx.aol.com (relay07.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.7]) by air19.mail.aol.com (v43.17) with SMTP; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:03:39 -0400 Received: from imo30.mx.aol.com (imo30.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.74]) by relay07.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA15837 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost) by imo30.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) with internal id QAA22068; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:03:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199805282003.QAA22068@imo30.mx.aol.com> To: GSFOLEY@aol.com Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The original message was received at Thu, 28 May 1998 16:02:47 -0400 (EDT) from root@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- glass-request@bunji.com ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to www.bunji.com.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 Unknown User. 550 glass-request@bunji.com... User unknown ----- Original message follows ----- Received: from GSFOLEY@aol.com by imo30.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id HMBQa29509 for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:02:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Return-path: Message-ID: <5cbe0bcb.356dc2ea@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:02:37 EDT To: glass-request@bunji.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Petition Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com > > > The Supreme Court has agreed to hear the issue of whether public > funding > to an artist can be linked with the idea of whether the art > is 'decent.' After the Robert Mapplethorpe "scandal" not so long ago, > Congress passed a law that for an artist's art to receive public money > via the National Endowment for the Arts, it must be deemed decent. NPR > Morning Edition this morning, Nina Tottenberg said that if the Supreme > Court supports Congress, it is in effect the end of NEA. Then, > there's the question of Congressional funding: Funding for NPR / NEA & > PBS > > This petition is being passed around the Internet. Please add your > name to it so that funding can be maintained for the NEA, NPR & PBS. > Please keep this petition rolling. Do not reply to me. Please sign > and forward to others to sign. If you prefer not to sign please send > to the e-mail address indicated or return to me. Thanks. > > This is being forwarded to several people at once to add their names > to the petition. It won't matter if many people receive the same > list as the names are being managed. This is for anyone who thinks > NPR/PBS is a worthwhile expenditure of $1.12/year of their taxes, a > petition follows. If you sign, please forward on to others. If not, > please > don't kill it - send it to the email address listed here: > wein2688@blue.univn > PBS, NPR (National Public Radio), and the arts are facing major > cutbacks in funding. In spite of the efforts of each station to > reduce > spending costs and streamline their services, some government > officials > believe that the funding currently going to these programs is too > large > a > portion of funding for something which is seen as not worthwhile. > Currently, > taxe from the general public for PBS equal $1.12 per person per year, > and > the National Endowment for the Arts equals $0.64 a year. > A January 1995 CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll indicated that 76% of > Americans wish to keep funding for PBS, third only to national defense > and law enforcement as the most valuable programs for federal > funding. > Each year, the Senate and House Appropriations committees each have 13 > subcommittees with jurisdiction over many programs and agencies. Each > subcommittee passes its own appropriation bill. The goal each year is > to have each bill signed by the beginning of the fiscal year, which is > October 1. The only way that our representatives can be aware of the > base of support for PBS and funding for these types of programs is by > making our voices heard. > > Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends if you > believe in what we stand for. This list will be forwarded to the > President of the United States, the Vice President of the United > States, and Representative Newt Gingrich, who is the instigator of the > action to cut funding to these worthwhile programs. > *If you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250th, etc., signer of this > petition, please forward a copy to: > > This way we can keep track of the lists and organize them. Forward > this to everyone you know, and help us to keep these programs alive. > Thank you. > > -------------------------------------------------------- > NOTE: It is preferable that you SELECT the entirety of this letter and > then COPY it into a new outgoing message rather than simply forwarding > it. Or if option is available, do a SEND AGAIN. > -------------------------------------------------------- > 449) Edward G. Guggenheim, San Francisco, CA > 450) Thao N. Lam, Riverside, CA > 451) Antonio Rauti, Riverside, CA > 452) Carlotta Domeniconi, Riverside, CA > 453) Stephanie Fonder, Riverside, CA > 454) Sohail Nadimi, Riverside, CA > 455) Shirin Etessam, San Francisco, CA > 456) Jahanshah Javid, Albany, CA > 457) Haleh Nazeri, NY, NY > 458) Larry Weissman, NY, NY > 459) Jackie Medel, Los Angeles, CA > 458) Lynn Cantor, Los Angeles, CA > 459) Alec Bartsch, Los Angeles, CA > 460) Kim Wohlenhaus, Louisville, KY > 461) Tanya Savory, Louisville, KY > 462) Suzanne McDermott, Charleston, SC > 463) Jack Williams, Columbia SC > 464) Caroline Aiken, Atlanta, Ga. > 465) Jef Jaisun, Seattle, WA > 466: Roberta Penn, Seattle, WA > 467: karen garrett de Luna, Seattle, WA > 468: Sara Jinks, Seattle, WA > 469: Heather Kravas, Seattle, WA > 470: Jason Starkie, Seattle, WA > 471: Clarence L. Brooks, Jr, Seattle, WA > 472: Dan Froot, Los Angeles, CA > 473: Julia Carnahan, Whittier, CA > 474: Karen Nathanson, Los Angeles, CA > 475: Mark Yardas, Venice, CA > 478: Mara Schoner, Venice, CA > 479: karen maclean andersen, los angeles, ca > 480: Sharon Oster, Los Angeles, CA > 481: Eve Sanders, Los Angeles, CA > 482: Nora Johnson, Swarthmore, PA > 483: Nathalie F. Anderson, Swarthmore PA > 484: Kevin Kish, Swarthmore Pa > 485: Julia Kernochan, Swarthmore, PA > 486: Cristina Garcia, Swarthmore, PA > 487: Emily Wilkins, Swarthmore, PA > 488. Lucinda Kidder, Northfield MA > 489. Stephanie Woolley, Miami, FL > 490. Chocolate Waters, New York, NY > 491. Judith K. Witherow, Morningside, MD 20746 > 492. Steven J.Witherow, Morningside, MD 29746 > 493. Sue Lenaerts, Morningside, MD 20746 > 494. Robert Edward West, MD 21044-2538 > 495. Kathryn Ervin, CA 92346 > 496. Margaret A. Perry, Crestline, CA 92325 > 497. Yvette Ratner, Auburn, AL > 498. Robin Jaffe, Auburn, AL > 499. Oran C. Walker, Seattle, WA > 500. David A. Nochimson, Seattle, WA > 501. Charlotte Grossman, Tiburon, CA. > 502. David P. Gollub, San Francisco, CA > 503. Bruce Isaacson, Las Vegas, Nevada > 504. Kim Addonizio, San Francisco, CA > 505. Leza Lowitz, Dillon Beach, CA > 506. Jack Foley, Oakland, CA > 507. Adelle Foley, Oakland, CA > 508. Alicia Ostriker, Princeton, NJ > 509. Lisa Goldberg, NYC, NY > 510. Danielle DeCrette, NYC > 511. Leslie Castay, NYC > 512. Bryan Burkey, NYC > 513. Mark Zimmerman, NYC > 514. Barbara Tirrell, NYC > 515. Scott Killian, NYC > 516: Danial Shapiro, Minneapolis, MN > 517: Joanie Smith, Minneapolis, MN > 518: Elizabeth Van Vleck, NYC > 519: Suzie Jary, NYC > 520. Susan Johnston, Brooklyn, NY 11215 > 521: Mona Kreaden, NYC, NY > 522: Risa Morimoto New York, NY > 523: Ernesto Jarvis, Brooklyn, NY > 534: Fannie Chan, Brooklyn, NY > 535: Richard Simon, New York, NY > 536: Michael Simon, New York, NY > 537: Dwan Reece King, Hartsdale, NY > 538: Fabiana Chiu-Rinaldi, Greenwich, CT > 539: Helen Liu, Boston, MA > 540: Anne Marie Booth, Quincy, MA > 541: Lihbin Shiao, Jamaica Plain, MA > 542: Emily Houh, Detroit, MI > 543: Emmeline Kim Owyang, Boston, MA > 544: Faith Adiele, Somerville, MA > 545: Wenda Tai, Cambridge, MA > 546: Jeanne Tai, Cambridge, MA > 547: Margaret Tuitt, Somerville, MA > 548: Susan Berstler, Somerville, MA > 549: Betsy Troutman, Seattle, WA > 550: Robert Rufh, Seattle, WA > 551: Andrew Chase, Seattle, WA > 552: Kay Chase, Kalamazoo, MI > 553: Jackie Driscoll, Kalamazoo, MI > 554: Martha Driscoll, Arlington, MA > 555: Priscilla Sanville, Arlington, MA. > 556: Michael Gigante, Brattleboro, VT > 557: Carrie Yamaoka, NY, NY > 558: Joy Episalla, NY, NY > 559: Adam Simon, Hoboken, NJ > 560: Matthew Sharpe, New York, NY > 561: Nick Balaban, NY > 562: Jerry Everard, Seattle, WA > 563: Robin Hughes, Seattle, WA > 564: Lori Dirks, Seattle, WA > 565: April Richards, Seattle, WA > 566: Dawn Rains, Seattle, WA > 567: Kim Gonzales, Seattle, WA > 568: Anne Shrauner, Seattle, WA > 569: Rachel Whalen, Seattle, WA > 570: Anne Copeland, Seattle, WA > 571: Jennifer Creegan, Seattle, WA > 572: Jane Ray, Seattle, WA > 573. Jack Levinson, New York City > 574. Anne Corliss Dunham > 575. Teresa Elena Lee > 576. Bruce Gregory Shackelford > 577. Kevin Patrick Kennedy > 576. Christy Kennedy > 577. Kristi Smith, Longmont, Colorado > 578. JoAnne Zingo-Hargis, Lawrence, KS > 579. Dixie F. Lovell, St. Louis, MO > 580. Kajira Djoumahna, Santa Rosa, CA > 581. Carolena Nericcio, San Francisco, CA > 582. Nadia Khastagir, San Francisco CA > 583. James Whitehead, Oakland, Ca > 584. Tom Juarez, South San Francisco, CA > 585. Ruby Udell Grad, Woodacre, CA > 586. Sylvia Spears, San Francisco, Ca > 587. John Hanft, San Francisco, Ca. > 588. Bevan Vinton, Piedmont, CA. > 589. Anne Underwood Grant, Horse Shoe, NC > 590. Judith C. Berman, New York, NY > 591. Leonard A. Sharzer, New York, NY > 592. Edwin Schmith, Cleveland, OH > 593. Ron Wilner, Baltimore, MD > 594. Connie Parr, Baltimore, MD > 595. Cynthia A Belcher, Baltimore, MD > 596. Carol A. Mick, Upper Tract, WV > 597. John Eckman, Harrisonburg, VA > 598. Carl Droms, Linville, VA > 599. Yvonne Droms, Linville, VA > 600. Laurel M. Donahue, Portland, OR > 601. Trish Flaster, Boulder. CO > 602. Kerry Hughes, Mill Valley, CA > 603. Kevin Dickey, Mill Valley, CA > 604. Jesse Hiller, San Francisco, CA > 605. John S. Bello, San Francisco, CA > 606. Susan L. Bello, Mounds, OK > 607. Paul A. Bello, Mounds, OK > 608. Stanley Fisher, Mt Shasta, CA > 609. Gary Kelly, New York, N.Y. > 610. Cynthia Reed, New York, N.Y. > 611 Jack London, Chicago, IL > 612 Charlene Canali, Miami, FL > 613 Mark Krumich, Miami, FL > 614 Rex Benincasa, NYC, NY. > 615 Jenna Lee, NYC, NY > 616 Meghan Cary, NYC, NY > 617 Eugene Beck, Toronto,Ontario,Canada > 618 Margaret Storer, Coupeville, WA > 619 Buell Neidlinger, Coupeville, WA > 620 Darol Anger, Oakland, CA > 621 Willa Rabinovitch, Oakland, CA > 622 Jef Pertzborn, Madison, WI > 622 Jeff Laramie, Madison, WI > 633 Danny Seidenberg, Los Angeles > 634 Evan Price, Richmond, CA > 635 Mark Palms, Manchester, MI > 636 Helen Welford, Ann Arbor, MI > 637 Michael J. Ellis, Washington, DC > 638 Steven A. Munoz-Arias, Washington, DC > 639 Roger L. Raymond, Laurel, MD > 640 Cheryl S. Raymond, Laurel, MD > 641 Emily J. Brenneman, Columbia, MD > 642 Cynthia Brenneman, Rockville, MD > 643 Lori P. Field, Falls Church, VA > 644 Tahtianna Friend, Haddonfield. NJ > 645 pj friend, Haddonfield, NJ 646 Sherry M. Foley > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.5]) by air-zc02.mail.aol.com (v43.17) with SMTP; Wed, 27 May 1998 14:32:01 -0400 Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2]) by rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA28750; Wed, 27 May 1998 14:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 27 May 1998 10:29:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass --part0_896387082_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 14:42:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 13:55:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nb.net!sigglass From: Zane Cimera To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Okay, I call your bluff Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:59:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May28.115927.0> References: <<199805281938.PAA04914@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert, Please supply your resources from which you determined that "Most developed countries throughout the world proudly and thoroughly support the arts." So I can see if "The United States is 'way behind the curve in terms of support for arts." Also, in response to this statement: "I really don't think that anyone here has been hurt in terms of their livelihood because someone else has been given a grant by the NEA or some other government agency." How about some other government agency such as welfare? I pay a lot of taxes to fund welfare - that hurts me personally. My business struggles to pay for my neighbor who sits at his house (government funded - he boasts about it) all day and collects his welfare check. His live-in collects the same welfare money, plus extra for her 3 illegitimate kids. They won't marry because they would lose some of my money from their government checks. I own my house, I run a stained glass business, I work a full time job and I still have the time to create art - poor Maya Angelou, what if she had to bust her butt for once instead of living off the trough of taxpayers. Give me the statistics so I will shut my mouth - but I think there are no statistics to back the statement that we (the U.S.) are way behind - we spend more per capita on the arts (all arts) than most developed countries. Certainly I don't expect to see the former Soviet Union, China, Ireland, Poland, Mexico, Egypt or Scotland making the list. In fact, the only ones I can think may even fall on this list would be Canada, England, France and maybe Germany - hardly "most". And of those 4, I don't know that we are "way behind". Please, enlighten me. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 15:01:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 13:59:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805282058.QAA13174@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk >The problem is that most people only know the twisted art and artists. The really talented ones who benifit from these programs you don't hear of. Like the artist who was able to travel to zimbawa and teach the children woodcarvings. His works have been purchase by the Philadelphia Museum of Art. Anyone know his name???? Or know of his work??? my best, pj >> Right, 100 years from now "Piss Christ", the picture of Christ submerged > >Yikes! You obviously know much more about twisted art and artists >than I do. I'm outta here. It's gettin' too deep for my fair soul. > >Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 15:04:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 13:41:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nb.net!sigglass From: Zane Cimera To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: I can't reason very well because I am too emotional .... Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:44:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May28.114429.0> References: <<1998May28.42550.0>> Precedence: bulk Glenn, Did you read Dani's argument? Quoted in part: "If I'm [the artist] paying for it and you're [the taxpayer] not forced to look at it in the public square, I can create anything I want, display it wherever I want, sell it to whomever I want. The beauty of this approach is that it gives the artist total freedom and control (as well as responsibility).... of course, this approach very often fails because (also being human) many artists can't handle the above." Very logically stated - so, just because you take the other side of the fence, don't lob your opinion around that we are too emotional. If anything, I believe you [those who think it is okay to use gov't money to fund art] are the emotional ones - Oh, my goodness, without intervention the arts will fail. Oh, how tragic. Funny, the arts seemed to survive for the past 6,000 years - why do we now need the gov't to decide who is worthy of getting the funds stolen from taxpayers? If your posts are going to be so one-sided, then mine will be right behind yours balancing them out by pointing out the inconsistencies of an argument "from the left". Fair is fair. Zane Glenn Spicer wrote: > > There seems to be certain basic issues here > 1. Should government (tax) money be spent on art at all? > 2. Should government (tax) money be spent on helping artists? > 3. What priority does art have in government spending? > 4. Should the government be involved in deciding what is art (acceptable > art, censorship)? > 5. Should there be censorship? > 5. Is there a point to supporting Con Art, Obscene Art, Violent Art, Bad > Art? > 6. What is considered Con Art, Obscene Art, Violent Art, Bad Art.? > 7. And as H says, who decides? > > That is a lot of ground to cover and I can see this thread going on for a > while. For those of us who are experienced in stained glass this could be > an interesting diversion from the daily bungi. Wish I had more time to give > to it. I'll try to deal with this a bit at a time from my point of view. > > 1. Should government (tax) money be spent on art at all? -- So far the only > reasonable arguments seem, IMHO, come from Sally and Albert others, like > Bob, seem to be reacting to an emotional personal complaint based on > frustration of the waste of their tax money (with which I do sympathize) > and lack of art appreciation, but the with the relatively small amount > spent on art/craft by the government, the amount should not be an issue, > rather perhaps that it should be spent wisely. Albert was the most elegant > in addressing this issue. Non-functional art, public art for viewing by the > people at large, should by it's nature be a little tempered and less > controversial and chosen by a panel of planners, public reps, and art > consultants from submissions from a "call to artists". > Many cities have a %age requirement on new buildings being built that is > used for art enhancement of new buildings or renovations. This is a good > approach and does not use tax money, puts up art for general enjoyment, and > the companies putting up structures return something to the public. > Galleries that serve to preserve art of society, needs greater license and > less censorship as to their purchases, as they are the record keepers of > the art of the times and past, good or bad in the mind of the public, > reflecting the trends of the tastes of that period, usually a reflection of > the middle and upper class as the lower class is too busy surviving to be > involved or care. > An aside, an Idealist view, if the money spent on war was spent on taking > care of the basic needs of all peoples, there would be no war, and lots of > money left over for art and leisure. Unfortunately we do not live in > utopia. We live in a world where greed and fear prevail, so the public art > can bring some pleasure for those who cannot afford art . I'll get into > censorship and good and bad art latter. > Glenn Spicer, > The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 15:14:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 13:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 04:50:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199805282121.RAA12024@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > None of the artists you mentioned > were supported by their respective > governments in order to produce > art! Right, Dani. But I was responding to "good" vs. "bad" art, that "good" art will sell and "bad" art will not. Obviously, Van Gogh et al. weren't popular and their work didn't sell, therefore they were "bad," right? In that particular response, I wasn't saying they were supported by their governments (their "people"), but I think they should have been. We differ in our opinions, you and I (and others). We're all correct in our thinking. > If they [the government] want to buy > art from me... fine. But, a hand-out? So the art in Denver wasn't bought by the town fathers? Or did they just hand checks to the artists involved? I don't understand your point. > No thanks. I like the European way and > it can work just fine in America, too. But in Europe the government supports the arts by buying the artists' work and installing it in buildings. I'm not sure what the percentage is (more than 1% I'm told), but all buildings in Germany are required to set a percentage aside for artistic embellishment, not only government buildings. How is that different than what you say is going on in Denver? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 15:26:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 13:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive 1. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 04:50:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199805282121.RAA12028@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > 1. Should government (tax) money be spent on art at all? Better art than weapons, IMHO. > 2. Should government (tax) money be spent on helping artists? Sure, an aesthetic environment is always preferred to an inaesthetic environment. If artists are "contracted" to produce art to embellish public spaces, isn't the result better? Example: public monies were spent years ago to set aside a large tract of land in New York City and to there construct a park. A landscape artist was hired to design it. How many generations of Americans have since enjoyed this result of artistic embellishment of that city? Example: public monies were spent to buy and build on an island in New York harbor. An architect was hired to design a base for a statue by a French artist, that statue being donated by a foreign government. Result of that was the Statue of Liberty on Liberty Island. Any nay-sayers on that one? > 3. What priority does art have in government spending? My opinion: #3 after: #1 are all citizens employed?, eating and living in acceptable housing? and #2 are all citizens receiving a proper education? #3 is "are they enjoying it? > 4. Should the government be involved in deciding what is art (acceptable > art, censorship)? Again, the people are decorating their public spaces. They hire other people who are experts in the field of the arts to make those decisions. The experts do their best (committees are tough). Then the people take exception to some of the decisions. That's okay. That's the way it works. It doesn't make any of the art "good" or "bad," since those are personal, subjective opinions. > 5. Should there be censorship? Only of that which does harm to others. Now we're back in Subjectiveland. > 5. Is there a point to supporting Con Art, Obscene Art, Violent Art, Bad > Art? All subjective. To me, for example, everything I've seen sold on QVC is obscene. Likewise all abs builders, diet pitches, instahair spray pitches, get-rich-quick-by-buying-houses-with-no-down pitches, etc. But that's just my subjective opinion. Just because I begin to retch at any of the above doesn't mean there aren't (I hope for those pitchmen's sake) millions of others who *don't find them offensive. Oh, I forgot the seance channel. Definitely obscene. > 6. What is considered Con Art, Obscene Art, Violent Art, Bad Art.? Your decision ... and mine. > 7. And as H says, who decides? You do. But you don't decide for anyone else, since one man's trash is another's treasure. Thanks for the Elegance of Expression Award, Glenn. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 15:36:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 14:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Dinosaur Bob To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: OY VEY wasRe: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:21:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.132127.0> References: <<199805281938.PAA04914@vger.vgernet.net>> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk I had hoped to stay out of this, as I know what discussing religion and politics can do in the way of group dynamics. I consider myself to be very tolerant, liberal, and active in improving the lot of personkind. I haven't done enuff glass to know whether I could be talented enuff to be considered an artist, let alone the caliber of Ms Angelou and I DO have a dream to be able to do glass full time, *but* I cannot trash the day job, due to having other mouths to feed and shelter. Does the pursuit of happiness guaranty I be subsidized if I want to practice my craft? Years ago, there were 'Patrons' of the arts. How about Mssrs Gates, Turner and Buffet picking up the slack??? > > Otherwise, in > order to get by, she (like many artists) would have had to wait > tables, etc., thus taking time and energy away from her art. > There's a world full of people out there that do that very thing. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 15:41:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 14:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nb.net!sigglass From: Zane Cimera To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:48:41 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May28.124841.0> References: <<1998May28.6148.0>> Precedence: bulk The same question, posed in reverse - why do you have such a thing for taking money from taxpayers and handing it on a silver platter to an "artist"? Also, what ever happened to self-sacrifice? Growing up (not all that long ago [1968-1986]) I figured out real quick that if I wanted something, it was up to ME to get it - it was not going to get handed to me on a silver platter. So, I am exactly where I want to be in life and exactly where I should be in life - by my own doing. My parents are poorer than poor, but they get by in spite of, not because of, the government. I don't have lottery dreams because I realize that anyone (and I mean that in the purest sense of the word) anyone can pull themselves out of the muck and aspire to their full potential. I don't care if you start off completely impoverished, the human spirit is stronger than the chains of poverty and anyone can break free if they want to. Same goes for art - it prevails despite, not because of, government intervention in the form of government slavery - because that is what you are when you are owned by the someone - a slave. And artists who live off the NEA and people who live off of welfare are slaves to the government. Glenn Spicer wrote: > > Further to this, do you feel that we should give flood relief to those > building houses and farms on a flood plain? Why should they be supported > with public funds, I mean where did they think the word flood plain came > from. Should we be expected to pay this dumb move with public funds? What > about over fishing to the point of wiping out complete species of fish then > demanding public funds for relief? I could go on, but you get the idea. Why > do you have such a thing against funding for artists. There will always be > some abuse in any system, would be nice not to have it, but in the meantime > do we "throw the baby out with the wash" to quote a well known man about > bungi? > Glenn Spicer, > The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: BOB DUCHESNEAU [SMTP:YWAH36A@prodigy.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 5:00 PM > To: alewis@vgernet.net; glass@bungi.com > Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive > > The issue here is that some of us do not agree that some artists > should be supported with public funds. It hurts the rest of us and > inpinges on our lively hood. > ____ > Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 > Go to *http://www.spam.com * for a hot spicy treat. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 16:14:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 15:41:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Is it all government bucks?? Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805282240.PAA28006@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk There's been alot of talk on this. Wish I had more time to read it all.(maybe I'd make better sense) I enjoy PBS and one time saw Dale Chihuly at work producing blown glass at it's best. At the end of the broadcast, it was mention that funding came from a "Private Foundation". We all know Cindy has a pea brain:) and this is out of her small world because it's based States side, but in a private foundation do they rely on Uncle Sam's money always? Here in Canada we have it done by donations.....if you wanna have it, put your money where your mouth is and they must get government (mine) money too. Personally, it could be "milking the system", but in some cases it's hard to say. What gets my goat is the Canadain government "idiots" that have paid 5 million bucks of my $$$$ for a piece of trash to put in the Art Gallery, which if at best has sometime like 3 lines of color in it. Smiles, Cindy PS when I'm home alone I watch.....PBS, travel channel (so Cindy doesn't feel bad stuck in Canada always), and discovery (if they can keep out the scary stuff) Have a good one you guys and carry on with the debate. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 17:11:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:15:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805282315.TAA18631@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk >The same question, posed in reverse - why do you have such a thing for >taking money from taxpayers and handing it on a silver platter to an >"artist"?\ Well if you know anything about applying for money from the NEA it is not as easy as it sounds. No silver platters and lots and lots of work. In fact I think the application is now up to about 10 pages and your support material is probably more than that.. There is also the fact that as an artist you must already have a large body of work. Which means you have either paid you dues or are probably up to hock because you have spent the time creating it. Most of the time the monies are awarded to help free the artist to creat. If you are creating work to keep a roof over your head, and food on the table and the tax man away from your door it is hard to free yourself to create new work. edited>>> >Same goes for art - it prevails despite, not because of, government >intervention in the form of government slavery - because that is what >you are when you are owned by the someone - a slave. And artists who >live off the NEA and people who live off of welfare are slaves to the >government. > Artist don't live off of the NEA.........the money given individual artist is not the million dollar lottery. And as for being a slave to the government?? I believe there are stipulations in the grant that you must exhibit your work. And a few other little details. But no slavery. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 17:46:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:49:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Okay, I call your bluff Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:53:00 +0000 Message-ID: <199805290026.UAA21553@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Please supply your resources from which you determined that "Most > developed countries throughout the world proudly and thoroughly support > the arts." > > So I can see if "The United States is 'way behind the curve in terms of > support for arts." > Also, in response to this statement: > > "I really don't think that anyone here has been hurt in terms of their > livelihood because someone else has been given a grant by the NEA or > some other government agency." > > How about some other government agency such as welfare? By comparison to almost any other Federal program, funding for the arts is minuscule. The 1997 funding for the NEA accounts for less than 1/100 of 1% of the federal budget. Despite its modest budget, the NEA is still the largest single source of funding in this country for non-commercial arts. See http://www.crossover.com/reus/cmp5.html#Arts_Funding > Give me the statistics so I will shut my mouth - but I think there are > no statistics to back the statement that we (the U.S.) are way behind - > we spend more per capita on the arts (all arts) than most developed > countries. Certainly I don't expect to see the former Soviet Union, > China, Ireland, Poland, Mexico, Egypt or Scotland making the list. In > fact, the only ones I can think may even fall on this list would be > Canada, England, France and maybe Germany - hardly "most". And of those > 4, I don't know that we are "way behind". Please, enlighten me. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 18:07:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:49:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:53:00 +0000 Message-ID: <199805290026.UAA21550@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Also, what ever happened to self-sacrifice? Ah, me. Grants to artists and to others in the arts do cause the most emotional outbursts. Never mind that only one or two artists or organizations are "controversial" and that most of them are gladly welcomed and supported by their communities, as much as those communities can. Think of arts grants as "encouragements," rather than as a way of life. For artists or others in the arts the grants only enable them to do something they would otherwise not be able to do. For example, my wife has received two NEA grants, both of them to make it possible for her to do or continue research on Frank Lloyd Wright and John La Farge. Other granting organizations have underwritten travel and photography expenses in those efforts. If it weren't for the grants, she simply wouldn't have been able to take the time off from (paying) work, she wouldn't have been able to afford the rather expensive photography involved, and so on. Not to mention that receiving the grants made it possible for her to gain access to records and buildings that would have otherwise been closed to her. Having the "stamp of approval" from the NEA and the other funding agencies change that, though. Even with the grants, she spent far more on the research than she received. The money helped, but it certainly didn't cover everything. As a result, much more is known and will be known about both artists. She was able to share some of her research with the worldwide community of art historians during the Scottish conference earlier this month. She applied for a grant to cover travel expense, but didn't get it. It was still important enough in her mind to cover the expense herself; that's not always possible. So was that a bad funding? If you had any idea how difficult it is to get funding, how many hoops one must jump through, letters of recommendation, committees that must sift and question. This ain't no free lunch. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 18:16:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:52:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: iname.com!alpas From: "-" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Polymer technology Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:43:21 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May29.14321.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Mike I think u can not use it that way because it is liquid. It is applied over an horizontal surface. If such surface is a leaded stained glass, the liquid would drop inside the cames and would not cover the lead "mountains" Also a problem is the investment. You need more than USD 44 000 (plus studio space) May be there is some spray product in the market ? There are silicone based products (like those used for cars) Probably some might suit as waterproof and heath isolant Luis Sousa alpas@iname.com UIN 3410031 > > > >i wonder if you could use this process with stained glass. if you could >pour the clear one over a finshed artwork. you could display it outside. >it would be weather proof. and if it's as strong as you mentioned, maybe >even hail resistant... > >---Mike Savad > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 18:29:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:52:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: iname.com!alpas From: "-" To: "Sue Reitmann" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Polymer technology Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:51:22 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May29.15122.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks Sue and PJ My scanner is a black& white old one. If I can find a friend with a color one I will send some fotos however the visual effect is very similar to traditional stained glass, and a photo will not show the differences, only a real sample. Luis Sousa alpas@iname.com UIN 3410031 -----Original Message----- From: Sue Reitmann To: 'alpas@iname.com' Date: quarta-feira, 27 de maio de 1998 4:32 Subject: RE: Polymer technology >Greetings Luis: >I have been reading your posts on your technique using polymers. I have >never seen a finished product using the process you have described. If you >have a photo of something you have completed and the ability to send a >scanned picture I am sure many on the bungi list would be interested in >seeing what you are speaking about. >Daniel ( from Mexico City) has set up a "gallery" for us to post our photos >on if you are interested. Many folks on the mailing list are opposed to >attachments so he was gracious enough to accommodate those of us who are >interested in photos. >Just a suggestion: Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words" >Take care, >Sue Reitmann > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 18:43:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 16:55:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Is it all government bucks?? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:01:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199805290032.UAA21820@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I enjoy PBS and one time saw Dale Chihuly at work producing blown glass at > it's best. At the end of the broadcast, it was mention that funding came > from a "Private Foundation". What PBS is saying is that the production costs of that program have been covered by a generous donor, in that case a privately funded organization that is tax-free because its money is designated to be given away. They do that for two reasons: 1. to acknowledge the generosity of the gift and 2. to make other possible donors feel that they should be doing things like that, too. > We all know Cindy has a pea brain:) and this is out of her small world > because it's based States side, but in a private foundation do they rely on > Uncle Sam's money always? Private foundations are set up by individuals and corporations with a lot of extra money (or when the individuals die). They can donate millions to the foundations, none of it taxable at death and none taxable when it's given to nonprofit orgs like PBS. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 18:52:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 17:29:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: And now for something completely innocuous Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:27:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.16279.0> Precedence: bulk I ran by my local supplier today to buy some foil. She was busy with a customer, discussing a window. They wer obviously almost done, so I went over to the scrap bucket and started poking around. I ended up buying some odds and ends, about a pound. Most of it was irridescent peach, which will make up into a lovely butterfly. So I said to her, "That's a butterfly" and she said, "Oh, that's the scrap from Foxwoods." So you gamblers out there in the Northeast, if you see a stained glass piece at the casino with some irrid peach, it was locally made. (Also got a little (very little) gorgeous pink that she'd been using for a church window.)(I just love nesting parentheses...it's the math in me.) Dorothy K ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 19:06:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 17:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:30:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.163055.0> Precedence: bulk Albert- My biggest objection to NEA = endowments is that in so many cases the government is NOT purchasing a piece of art. They are funding a showing of an artists work, or a performance piece (like the artist who nailed himself to the VW roof and had someone drive him around a public square), nothing tangible, no finished product to hang in the Smithsonian or some other suitable government facility. Yes, Europe supports the arts.... the government and the people... by buying it. Not by handing out = endowments to a few artists deemed to be more worthy than others. I admit I speak with limited knowledge about European arts funding, only = because things may have changed a good deal in the last 25 years. But, I think the American arts community = is very quick to suggest that European governments unload tons of cash on its artists. Yes, they employ artists and fine craftsman ... but, in the same way they would hire architects, engineers, stonemasons, interior designers, plumbers.... well, you get my point - the artists aren't = place in any special group to be supplied with special funding. In America, we're perceived as some inferior special interest group that subsists by government welfare. That belief persists because of too many absurd and questionable NEA funding decisions in past years. Gads, I don't need anymore of that kind of publicity to help my career along! Let me throw this question out to you - what would be a better way for our government to fund the arts than the National Endowment for the Arts? Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & STudios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 19:23:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 17:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: OY VEY wasRe: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:30:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.163034.0> Precedence: bulk Well, shyguy, I think the wealthy are supporting the arts in a big way. But, the little guy has to do his part, too. We can't just expect the govern- ment to dole out the cash AND expect them to make good decisions. We = each have to put our money where our mouth is. We each have to take the time to appreciate the arts and culture. When was the last time you went to the symphony? To an opera? To a museum? To a live theater = production? Everyone on bungi owns = a computer. How many of you own an original piece of artwork.... that cost as much as your computer, or television, or skis, or sofa? It's a matter of priorities. As long as the government foots the bill, we won't get support for the arts = from average everyday folks. And we need them to create a society that truly does support the arts. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 19:27:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 17:35:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:41:03 +0000 Message-ID: <199805290112.VAA23723@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Artist don't live off of the NEA.........the money given individual artist > is not > the million dollar lottery. And as for being a slave to the government?? > I believe there are stipulations in the grant that you must exhibit your work. > And a few other little details. But no slavery. Well, perhaps. I've never applied for an NEA grant myself, but the NEA did contact me way back in 1979 to ask if I'd accept one. It was for $1,000 to spend a month with the New York Experimental Glass Workshop (now called UrbanGlass) to help them set up a magazine. No travel expenses, no living expenses, no reimbursed hotel charges. A flat thousand bucks. I accepted, drove cross-country, and did it. I stayed 6 months, getting side jobs to support myself while I helped them get it off the ground. They *did give me a free room ... in the room above the furnaces ... during the summer. Don't ask. So if I was a slave ... and those *were slave wages ... it was because I indentured myself and because I believed in what they were doing. And I don't think what I did was unusual. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 19:41:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 17:37:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:30:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.16302.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk Just to bring this topic a little closer to home, the NEA has supported or helped to support exhibitions of Georgia O'Keefe's paintings. Now I just happen to have a book with several glass patterns of her flowers, "Georgia on My Mind". Many people consider her paintings of flowers as "obscene", likening some of them to various human anatomy parts. In my mind, I can't see the connection, but others have, therefore, what is obscene seems to me to be subjective and I don't feel the government should be the arbiter of what is decent and what isn't. So if I do a panel with one of her "obscene" flowers, am I doing obscene art? I in no way want or need any government monies as far as what I do in glass, but I do object to someone telling me what is obscene and what isn't. I do believe the government should be involved in the arts and the promotion of it, so many people would be deprived of exhibitions they might never be able to see, but to let a congressman or senator decide what should be seen and what should not be seen negates the spirit of the arts. Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 19:42:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 17:38:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:30:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.163057.0> Precedence: bulk You're right, pj, there are lots of good artists doing all kinds of great things out there, who have also received funding from the NEA. But, I stand by the point I made earlier. If I had made some of = the lousy decisions in my art career that the NEA has made (i.e. Mapple- thorpe's Corcoran Gallery exhibition, the notorious "Piss Christ", etc.) I would have had my business go = down the tubes ages ago! Why should not the NEA be held = accountable? I stand by my belief that IF taxpayer monies are being used to subsidize the arts, then the the greatest number of taxpayers possible must be satisfied with the way the money is spent. It's been too many years since the public has been pleased by the NEA's decisions. It's been too many years since the = NEA has helped the average working artist. And, believe it or not, organizaitons like NPR can survive without NEA support. We have a PBS station here that subsists entirely on donor funding. One of their big yearly money-makers' is a televised auction... the big attraction? Art! And they make a = bundle! Almost every artist I know donates work. We have several = classical music stations that "earn" their living the same way. It can be done. Best regards, Dani Greer (who's delighted to be disagreeing with Albert and pj for a change! I was beginning to think we were peas out of the same pod!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 19:53:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 19:15:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 03:13:36 +0000 Message-ID: <199805290214.DAA07572@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk I don't disagree.... I suppose it works several ways.... That one hungry child, could be the child of an Artist...... Society will continue to go round in circles, as long as it considers Art a "luxury", rather than as a "survival kit" for the human soul. As regards government funding, the less said the better (speaking from a barren corner in the UK). As regards education in schools.... Ohhh... that's another can of worms.... Outside my study window right now I can see the neighbour's boys home from school (half-term), ranging between 7 - 12 years old. Nice lads. They are scooting about on their roller-blades I wonder which of the following words brings any kind of recognition into their minds: Tiffany? Nintendo? Vivaldi? Spice Girls? Leonardo da Vinci? Nike? Guns? Alfred Nobel? Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK >>Never could understand what business the gov't has spending a cent on art while even one child in this country is going to bed hungry. Gary Dodge<< Bob replied: God bless you: what a good idea. $200,000,000.00 stills buys a lot of food. It is embarassing to admit that we are spending money on fine art grants when the basics have not been taken care of first. Do this in the private family and the government may take your children away. Dani's thought that the government could spend the money on art programs for schools is now a close second to me. I seem to recall that some very rich people pushed this thing through the Congress. What an ego trip! But I digress, I like your style. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 20:14:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 19:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: Zane Cimera Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Where is Daniel when we need him? was: Okay, I call your bluff Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998May28.181331.0> References: <<1998May28.115927.0>> Precedence: bulk On Thu, 28 May 1998, Zane Cimera wrote: > Albert, > > Please supply your resources from which you determined that "Most > developed countries throughout the world proudly and thoroughly support > the arts." > > > Give me the statistics so I will shut my mouth - but I think there are > no statistics to back the statement that we (the U.S.) are way behind - > we spend more per capita on the arts (all arts) than most developed > countries. Certainly I don't expect to see the former Soviet Union, > China, Ireland, Poland, Mexico, Egypt or Scotland making the list. In > fact, the only ones I can think may even fall on this list would be > Canada, England, France and maybe Germany - hardly "most". And of those > 4, I don't know that we are "way behind". Please, enlighten me. I hope that Daniel German, our patron saint of the unwebbed and Mexico City native, will address this when he returns from Rio. Until then, let me share my impressions. On my frequent travels to Mexico I am continually amazed at how much government support -both federal and state level- there is for the arts. Everywhere I turn there is a government sponsored program for all imaginable arts, from indigenous dance, music and crafts which date back to pre-Columbian times, to the latest cutting edge theater, to a huge classical musical festival going on in the capitol right now. I haven't the time to research numbers for you and wouldn't know how to properly compare them with other nations. Let me just state emphatically that Mexico appears to have a real commitment to the arts. Great discussion! If you have specific questions about government grants for glass in Mexico, send them to me. I'll pass them on to Kathy Harvey who is the president on the Mexican glass artists association. She's presently at the G.A.S. conference in Japan but will be able to shed some light on the subject sometime next week I'd expect. All the best, Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 20:28:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 19:15:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: I can't reason very well because I am too emotional .... Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 03:13:36 +0000 Message-ID: <199805290214.DAA07575@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Taj Mahal was created because a rich pasha wanted it; warriors/chiefs/ /emperors/kings/sheiks/ sultans"employed" court jesters, court poets, painters and musicians to immortalize heroic deeds; the pyramids were created to create a fitting memorial to the dead, to display power , respect for the dead and - in part to invoke fear. So , factually speaking, the Arts have been nurtured through "Patronage" throughout history. The warriors (et al) returned home with their loot and loadsamoney and spent it on decorating themselves, their homes, their surroundings. This I think is true in all societies, for all cultures and right up to the birth of the Christian society ( 2000 years ago). So from this stand-point, I would question the premise that Art has survived on its own for 6000 years..... I think it a matter of history, that with birth of Christianity and its increasing power-grip over the Western world, one of the greatest up-sides of Christianity is the enormous patronage and encouragement the Church paid to the Arts right up to the beginning of the 18th Century. (In the Arts, I include not ONLY the Visual Arts, but also literature, music - even architecture, sculpture, gold/silver smiths [ just think of Cellini's master pieces!] and gardening). Only the Church had the power of effective communication from village to village, county to county and country to country. Even education and healthcare itself was in the hands of the Church (and of course - the Church was empowered to extract taxes, not just from the poor, but also from the rich.) Most pre-19th Century artists in any field were either directly employed by / or received some form of grant either from the Church, a king/prince or ruler of some kind or a Bill Gates of the time ( the Medici Family - for instance - were enourmously important patrons of the Arts) . The struggle of the Arts started almost in direct ratio with the decline of the power of the Church and its decraesed patronage thereof. So artists had to look elsewhere to find funds to live on while they created. Van Gogh survived through the generosity of his brother who paid him a monthly allowance. Tchaikowsky received a monthly allowance from an annonymous Patroness (who wasn't all that annonymous after all, a Countess von Merck); Joseph Haydn was directly employed by Prince Eszterhazi, Handl was for a long time emplopyed by the Court in England; Mozart was employed by bishops & cardinals; just think of Michelangelo!!! Benvenuto Cellini was employed inside the Vatican as well. ....and - of course.... not to mention stained glass artists through the ages..... Father Bach himself was employed by the Church, so was Vivaldi ( called the Red Monk). As Patron of the Arts, the Church not only paid for the work itself to be done, for the living quarters and often for the materials the artists had to obtain, but also paid for the artist to travel and either learn or execute work somewhare else. There would often be occasions when a ruler or a cleric would jealously "guard" their resident artist, so he wouldn't be "poached" . Contracts very often excluded the artist to do work for anyone else. With the demise of the Church and the emergence of national governments a fairly recent occurrence - after all... a National Government - as we understand it - is really strictly speaking a 20th century creation), the economic weight shifted. Rich people ceased to make art donations, property donations to the Church, but instead bequeathed their eartly possessions "To The Nation" (libraries, paintings, treasures, collections, stately homes, museums, galleries etc) Hence increasing "Government intervention" into the realms of the Arts and hence - I would propose - the shift of patronage from the Church to the State (a mantle which has been shouldered somewhat reluctantly). There are however well-known 19th & 20th Century Medici-type families that are considerable patrons / paymasters of the Arts; (Rothschild, Getty, Gulbenkien - to name bu a few) Which reminds me ....according to The Sunday Times (in UK) EVEN Bill Gates (oh, yes!!). According to The Sunday Times, Bill Gates is beginning to buy ART!! He seems to concentrate mainly on American painters - Homer and other 19th Century painters, but also paintings by Andrew Wyeth - as well as collecting books). I mention this, because I visited the British Museum a couple of years ago and was absolutely entranced by a computer CD-ROM that was demonstrated of Leonardo da Vinci's scientific theories. The article in The Sunday Times about 2 weeks ago informed me that Bill Gates had in fact purchased from Christies da Vinci's "Codex Leicester" (which sets out all of these theories) for about a cool 30 million dollars. So - in fact - you might argue that he bought it as an investment!! (Yes, sure - a double-edged sword). But by turning it into a CD-ROM (costing ME 50 Dollars [sic. S.T.].... actually- here in UK the price is 49 POUNDS, so multiply that by approx. 1.65 and you'll get the true dollar price WE are paying) he HAS made is accessible to me (and you). Art IS about emotions and in the fight between physical survival and emotional survival, it initially takes second place. It is ONLY when physical survival is threatened and the spirit/uality of the human soul is being injured, imprisoned or tortured, that the human survival instinct reaches out to the spiritual bread and water to survive (like - for instance -the Musicians at Auschwitz,like the theatre performances dreamt up in the death-camps, like the music and art that has bubbled over from oppressed areas of the world throughout history (Eastern Europe, Africa and so on); like hostages locked up in total darkness for years , prisoners of war, political victims). We can go physically hungry, suffer physical pain and disability and even torture; but can find power to go on, through reading something, seeing something beautiful or hearing a tune however performed, reciting something we have learned into a silence. recollecting a vision in total darkness.... whatever. Fear, Hope, Joy, Serenity, are all emotions. The Arts tap into these quite fundamental things. But Arts will still need patrons, that includes Government. After all, the government is none other than you yourself..... No?? Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Zane commenting to Dani's input (which I haven't yet read...): Very logically stated - so, just because you take the other side of the fence, don't lob your opinion around that we are too emotional. If anything, I believe you [those who think it is okay to use gov't money to fund art] are the emotional ones - Oh, my goodness, without intervention the arts will fail. Oh, how tragic. Funny, the arts seemed to survive for the past 6,000 years - why do we now need the gov't to decide who is worthy of getting the funds stolen from taxpayers? If your posts are going to be so one-sided, then mine will be right behind yours balancing them out by pointing out the inconsistencies of an argument "from the left". Fair is fair. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 20:30:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 18:57:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:55:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.175542.0> Precedence: bulk Dear Albert- Thanks for sharing some of your personal experiences = with requesting grant money. = I agree with you - it's not a = piece of cake - and the recipients aren't living in mansions ! In fact, we avoid it not only because of = political philosophy, but also = because it's such a pain in the patoot! I just don't think it's worth the effort. You bring up an = interesting point when you talk about funding for historic research. William F. Buckley made the suggestion some months ago that perhaps the NEA could be "saved", but take on a more = history-oriented role and fund = things like arts history research, = acquisition of American art and artifacts, folk art education, etc. It was an intriguing possibilty in my mind. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 20:53:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 19:16:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: string in the Morton Safety Break system Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 03:13:36 +0000 Message-ID: <199805290214.DAA07566@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Those little "gizmos" retails for about USD 22 over here in UK. One of my students arrived with one to Class . It sure had a lot of string....... The following week I demonstrated to the class how you could achieve identical results with a button and a piece of polystyrene foam Cost: Nothing! Oh! And, Yes! to complete the finesse: I attached a black button thread (double) from the polystyrene to the button, so the poor mite wouldn't get lost.... :-> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Carol wrote: Re: Pat's answer: hang it around the neck and keep the breaker handy. I also sometimes think it was meant to be used to hang myself after screwing up an inside curve. Glad I'm not alone. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 21:08:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 19:42:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:37:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.183738.0> References: <<199805281938.PAA04914@vger.vgernet.net>> Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > The issue here is that some of us do not agree that some artists > should be supported with public funds. It hurts the rest of us and > inpinges on our lively hood. America is about free enterprise and NOT > about what the government thinks I should think is art. > > I really don't think that anyone here has > been hurt in terms of their livelihood because someone else has been > given a grant by the NEA or some other government agency. As rules are made to be broken, I am about to break the Don't Ever Get Involved In A Flame War rule. But as My Life and Livelihood have just been smacked head on, here I go. (Patrick, please forgive me, this should be in the bio I haven't written yet.) My training as a patternmaker was given to me through a scholarship endowed by the NEA, The Ford Foundation, and The Rockefeller Foundation. I was trained to be able to research and recreate clothing from any past, present, or future era in order to be able to create the costumes seen on stage. I specifically was trained to do this in regional repertory theatres, not Hollywood or New York. The program was set up because no one was being trained to do these jobs and nobody really wanted to do these jobs because the chances of ever being anything besides poor were nill. We did it for Love Of Our Art. After receiving my excellent training, I went off and did just what I was trained to do. I worked at places such at the Milwaukee Repertory Theatre, Center Stage in Baltimore, and The Folger Theatre Group in Washington, D.C. I continued to do it until at the age of 36 when one morning I woke up sick, with no money, and no health insurance. At that point I could no longer afford to be an artist. So I sold out to the Fashion Industry. I now earn a very nice wage, thank you very much, and have a lovely health insurance (which is paying for my husband's surgery as we speak) and pay lots and lots and lots of taxes. I want my taxes to go to help bring Isben to Milwaukee, Kaufman and Hart to Center Stage, and Shakespeare to The Folger. Nobody is getting rich here. Nobody is taking food from starving children. All anybody is trying to do is to enrich another person's life. Without the help of the NEA and other foundations supporting the arts, ticket prices would cost what tickets cost on Broadway and only the rich could afford to go to the theatre. Every organization in the world has some kind of abuse, and it is our job as citizens to be vigilant in finding the line between decency and censorship. But I can promise you, I have never seen a photograph that is as obscene as the concept of hundreds of $500 toilet seats, multi-BILLION dollar planes that are obsolete before they are finished, and the myriad of other abuses that run rampant in the Defense Department. Feed the starving children from their budget. And, please, get a perspective on the rest of it. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 22:01:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 20:50:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: gspicer@seaside.net Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:49:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May28.194949.0> References: <<01BD89BF.FD9FA960@mdm-90-141.seaside.net>> Precedence: bulk >Never could understand what business the gov't has spending a cent on >art >while even one child in this country is going to bed hungry. >Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > > > There are a lot of things that government waste taxpayers >money on that >make a lot less sense than spending money on art, and as far as hungry > >children go , there have always been hungry children (and other >unfortunates) and this is not going to stop if the government never > >spent another penny on art, their priorities, and that of most >societies is >totally backwards. Think of how much money is spent on sports, >warmongering, or on penitentiaries. >[] Glenn Spicer, >The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada Glenn, I never said that art was the only way the gov't wastes money! Probably most of gov't spending is waste, but only art was being discussed. Other examples of waste do not change anything. Gary Dodge _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu May 28 23:22:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 22:34:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: alewis@vgernet.net, BobDuc@prodigy.net, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 01:31:41, -0500 Message-ID: <199805290531.BAA19936@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>For example, my wife has received two NEA grants, both of them to make it possible for her to do or continue research on Frank Lloyd Wright and John La Farge.>> Sorry, I'm flexable but not limp! Just don't think another book on either of these people is of compelling national interest. Surely there is enough in print to satisfy most collage professors. What we have here is an ability to communicate with the NEA and not some important furthering of art or artists deserving of government funding. I should fess up. I am in receipt of a large commission awarded by a committee. I do not hold myself at liberty to tell you who/what it is, but it is in the institutional private sector and not government. Frankly, the committee impressed me as looking to engage someone for their project rather than taking any real interest in the project itself. The funding for this project ( of which I have received 50% up front) was collected and earned by scores of volunteers over a long period of time. These volunteers raised the money through bake sales and the like in addition to their important volunteer work. I shall do my best to give them value for value received but it will be more on my honor than the committees. Bob (who wonders if he can/should use his computer to speed the filling out of long NEA forms) ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Some wise person said, *If you want your enemy to retreat you must first saddle their horse.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 00:20:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 28 May 1998 23:44:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:41:56 +0000 Message-ID: <199805290643.HAA08357@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk But Dani... (I am delighted to be able to disagree - slightly - with you too :-> ) We DO have similar crazy projects over here too! Like the pile of bricks displayed in the Tate Gallery ... Like the dead cow in a tank of formaldehyde.... Like the concoctions called "installation art" Like the annual mystery exhibits at the Royal Academy Exhibitions I could go on and on. But that's no reason for NOT funding/sponsoring the Arts from public funds. I would like to quote Peggy's succinct little gem in the argument of definition of love between lovers: "If it lasts, it's Love; if it doesn't, it's Lust", i.e. if it's Art, it will stand the test of time; if it isn't... it won't. And as Albert so rightly points out, what is good or bad is - initially - subjective, since it hasn't been subjected to the test of time yet. Think of how much "bad" art must have fallen by the wayside during the history of mankind. A very poignant high-light of this particular point is in the film "Amadeus", where poor old Salieri laments that mankind would not remember HIS music, only that of Mozart.... Where governments dictate what is good or bad in the Arts, you will find artistic oppression and dictatorship (just look at the former Soviet Union!) Both science and technology is government funded / sponsored, and, quite rightly so - so should the arts. With science and technology, there again we may not always like it, or approve where it's taking us. As regards the point of Artists being regarded as the "inferior" race, this is the age-old argument between Science and Arts, all over again, each jostling for centre-stage. The dilemma is again high-lighted by another interesting little historic fact; Alfred Nobel was a Swedish scientist, he invented dynamite and got rich (in a nut-shell). When he died , he set up the now world-famous Nobel Prize, respected, coveted across the globe. But look at the categories! Physics, Chemistry, Medicine... the Arts is represented by Literature (The Peace Prize he added as an after-thought). Nobel Prize for Music??? Nope! ... for the visual arts?? Nope!! One could argue about the unfairness. But there again, there was a time when science was dogged by the air of hokus-pokus and evil spirits and science was actively discouraged (by the Church). Look at the fate of poor old Gallileo who was pressurized by the papal henchmen to "recant"...and the early medical / anatomical researchers had to resort to stealing dead corpses and were subsequently hounded by the church; alchemists were products of the devil; herbalists (unless they were nuns or monks) were witches and had to be burnt alive. I suppose we can't have it both ways, we want the good, but I think we will have to accept the dross that comes with it. Think of it as peeling a fruit, for instance a pineapple. (I have often admired the courage of the first human who looked at this fear-inspiring thing and decided that it was good to eat..). In other words, there is a lot of debris around anything "good", so you take the bad with the good (for which you also have to pay...) My Best! Elisabeth 'n Toby (who often spits out on the floor what he doesn't want...) Dani wrote: My biggest objection to NEA = endowments is that in so many cases the government is NOT purchasing a piece of art. They are funding a showing of an artists work, or a performance piece (like the artist who nailed himself to the VW roof and had someone drive him around a public square), nothing tangible, no finished product to hang in the Smithsonian or some other suitable government facility. Yes, Europe supports the arts.... the government and the people... by buying it. Not by handing out = endowments to a few artists deemed to be more worthy than others. I admit I speak with limited knowledge about European arts funding, only = because things may have changed a good deal in the last 25 years. But, I think the American arts community = is very quick to suggest that European governments unload tons of cash on its artists. Yes, they employ artists and fine craftsman ... but, in the same way they would hire architects, engineers, stonemasons, interior designers, plumbers.... well, you get my point - the artists aren't = place in any special group to be supplied with special funding. In America, we're perceived as some inferior special interest group that subsists by government welfare. That belief persists because of too many absurd and questionable NEA funding decisions in past years. Gads, I don't need anymore of that kind of publicity to help my career along! Let me throw this question out to you - what would be a better way for our government to fund the arts than the National Endowment for the Arts? --- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 01:21:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 00:16:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: NIWI.KNAW.NL!Denise.Berck From: "Denise Berck" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: circle Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:15:54 MET-1DST Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Organization: NIWI Precedence: bulk Dear all, I would like to know how to finish a circle in lead. Do I put one end in the other or do they just touch and get soldered? Do I cut 2 ends at one stroke ? Straight or in an angle? What a questions... Looking forward to some answers, Denise Berck Amsterdam ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 03:10:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 02:42:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:48:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199805291019.GAA16506@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > >>For example, my wife has received two NEA grants, both of them to > make it possible for her to do or continue research on Frank Lloyd > Wright and John La Farge.>> > > Sorry, I'm flexable but not limp! Just don't think another book on > either of these people is of compelling national interest. Surely > there is enough in print to satisfy most collage professors. Ah, but there's no book, none, that's a complete documentation of all of his stained glass. That's the purpose of the Wright book. And there's very little information available on La Farge. The Endowment obviously disagrees that it's unnecessary research. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 07:06:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 05:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: NIWI.KNAW.NL!Denise.Berck From: "Denise Berck" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: (Fwd) Re: circle Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:54:35 MET-1DST Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Organization: NIWI Precedence: bulk help this person. I don't know how I got on this list, BUT PLEASE TAKE ME OFF!!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 07:41:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:02:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: chescom.net!don From: Don McDonald To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:00:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May29.4028.0> References: <<199805290531.BAA19936@mime3.prodigy.com>> Precedence: bulk NO! NO! There can never be to much about Frank Lloyd Wright, especially in print with photographs or on the internet even with an access fee. Interesting, you think there is enough and I think there is frustratingly little available. BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote: > > >>For example, my wife has received two NEA grants, both of them to > make it possible for her to do or continue research on Frank Lloyd > Wright and John La Farge.>> > > Sorry, I'm flexable but not limp! Just don't think another book on > either of these people is of compelling national interest. Surely > there is enough in print to satisfy most collage professors. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 07:57:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:09:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: : OY VEY wasRe: Hope this is not offensive Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805291407.KAA18317@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk >Hi Dani: :) > >Paul and I do a really big part in supporting >the arts. We also make quite a nice living from being artist.s. > >And yes I own quite a few real works of art >that cost alot more than my computer. And I mean original works >not prints. > >We are patrons of the symphony and Philadephia Museum >of Art. > > We have single handedly raised over $25,000.00 for our local arts >organization over the past five years. And we are not what I would call dollar weathly. > > >Now if everyone on bungi....meaning 400 members did that...........you are right >we would not need the government to lend its helping hand. > >But the chances of that are nil. > >my best, >pj > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 08:13:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:20:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805291419.KAA18874@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk > >Well, perhaps. I've never applied for an NEA grant myself, but the >NEA did contact me way back in 1979 to ask if I'd accept one. >> > > >So if I was a slave ... and those *were slave wages ... it was >because I indentured myself and because I believed in what they were >doing. And I don't think what I did was unusual. Right Albert, And the other side of the coin is that if you don't agree with the terms of the grant.....you don't have to file it or even accept it. Slavery is something else...............kind of like no choice. But without the NEA you probably wouldn't have gotten the opportunity. There is a word that most people have missed. Opportunity. Personally I fear for the opportunity not given someone who would have made a major contribution to this world if it were not for grant monies. And as much as the twisted art does bring on alot of angry people.............it does foster discussion. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 08:33:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:24:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998May29.62013.0> References: <<199805281651.MAA15201@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk On Thu, 28 May 1998, Albert Lewis wrote: > I've been biting my lip to keep from saying anything, but I guess > I'm going to have to spout off, too. If public acceptance of an > artist's work is the measure against which one decides whether the > art is "good" or "bad," then "bad" art was created by Van Gogh, most > of the Fauves, all of the Dadaists, and quite a few other currently > acknowledged "good" artists. They were not accepted by their public, > died lonely, impoverished deaths, yet we would all agree that their > work was and is "good" art. This is my point exactly! This art was considered "bad" in its time, nut is now "good" art. It was not subsidized by the government, but it WAS done any way. We, by setting up government sibsidies, assume that it can't happen with out our financial support. Art is going to happen anyway. It may not be accepted NOW as "good" art, but in several hundred years it might. > I think it's the role of government, meaning *our role as excercised > by our representatives in government, who are citizens like > ourselves, to support the arts. If we don't agree with what they > decide, then we can vote them out of office. I couldn't disagree more. It is the privlege of citizens to support the arts. Why should I be asked to support the local symphony orchestra if I don't enjoy listening to that type of music. Conversely, why do I have to pay to go to a rock concert. I don't see them getting government subsidies. Aren't they too artists deserving of the same treatment. > > But to throw out the arts and artists along with the appointees with > whom we disagree is tossing the baby out with the bath water. The > arts are an important expression of any people; Americans as a people > have artists and if Americans support their artists and the arts, > encourage them and make the arts part of our cities, towns and > national life, we are all enriched by that. If a city spends a lot of money on a beautiful art exhibit and I get gunned down ina drive by along with 10 others while enjoying that exhibit. Would that money have been better spent on more police/better law enforcement. The arts are a luxory; always have been, always will be. The necessities should come first. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 08:45:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:43:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:48:42 +0000 Message-ID: <199805291521.LAA26076@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > This is my point exactly! This art was considered "bad" in its time, nut > is now "good" art. It was not subsidized by the government, but it WAS > done any way. We, by setting up government sibsidies, assume that it > can't happen with out our financial support. Art is going to happen > anyway. It may not be accepted NOW as "good" art, but in several hundred > years it might. I guess, then, the point of arts funding, is to keep artists from killing themselves, slicing off their ears, going insane, etc., and to encourage them while they're alive, rather than waiting several hundred years for their work to be valued. > > I think it's the role of government, meaning *our role as excercised > > by our representatives in government, who are citizens like > > ourselves, to support the arts. If we don't agree with what they > > decide, then we can vote them out of office. > > I couldn't disagree more. Well, that's what makes this country great: you can have your opinion and I can have mine. If the greater number of citizens vote in favor of arts funding, then it will continue; if not, then not. Even if those who are against arts funding lose out in this fashion and the arts continue to be supported by the majority of people, then their representatives ("the government," comprised also of citizens) will do as the majority as asked, but the minority voters can still voice their objections to the decision, even if they didn't get their way. Sounds fair to me, although I still support arts funding. > If a city spends a lot of money on a beautiful art exhibit and I get > gunned down ina drive by along with 10 others while enjoying that > exhibit. Would that money have been better spent on more police/better > law enforcement. The arts are a luxory; always have been, always will > be. The necessities should come first. Yes, I agree. All guns should be banned so you and everyone else can enjoy the arts without being worried that you'll be gunned down in a drive. Absolutely. I'm with you on that one. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 08:49:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:43:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:48:42 +0000 Message-ID: <199805291521.LAA26080@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > But without the NEA you probably wouldn't have gotten the > opportunity. There is a word that most people have missed. > Opportunity. > > Personally I fear for the opportunity not given someone who > would have made a major contribution to this world if it were not > for grant monies. And as much as the twisted art does bring on > alot of angry people.............it does foster discussion. Agreed, although "twisted' is a loaded, subjective term. Personally, for example, I like Bruce Dern as an actor because he's "twisted," although that's not to say he's insane. As an artist (actor), he's an ideal personification of evil, one that I enjoy watching. It could be argued that Clint Eastwood's portrayal of Harry Callahan is of a "twisted" character. I like watching that portrayal, too. Others may absolutely loathe Dern and love Eastwood (or vice versa), which is their right. What's "twisted" to one is "normal" to another, also vice versa. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 09:07:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 08:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jerseycape.com!lsg From: "Michael Minchelli" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: HOPE THIS IS NOT OFFENSIVE. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:56:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May29.65617.0> Precedence: bulk Golly!!! I keep reading and reading and the remarks for this subject heading keep going on and on. I would like to just express one thought. It is my understanding that we are not talking about the abolishment of the NEA but rather the regulating of it. If I am incorrect in this I would like to be told, because at least half of what I am reading seems to be leaping to that insinuation. Anyway this is my thought. As a society on a whole we have deemed certain things rather objectionable and our government is working to control these things... things like child pornography, racism, murder etc., they are also working toward the preservation of religious freedoms or protecting those who would find it difficult to protect themselves, etc. To out of your right pocket spend millions upon millions to attempt to control these things and bring the people who do wrong to justice then out of your left pocket give millions to some who promote these very same things seems like shooting yourself in the foot. It would be unproductive to your ultimate goal. I know that not all monies given by the NEA goes toward "objectionable material" but obviously some has. We the people... the government, recognize any individuals right to freedom of expression, but after we have worked so hard on certain issues, like racism for instance, if you ask the government to subsidize the mural you want to do on the side of a building consisting of slurs toward Jews or Blacks or Christians or any other group, or statements like the only good cop is a dead cop... you know what I mean. I think that the government not only should have the right, but as a taxpayer I would call upon them for the responsibility they have to "govern" to regulate to lead. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 09:08:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:45:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:48:42 +0000 Message-ID: <199805291521.LAA26073@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > NO! NO! There can never be to much about Frank Lloyd Wright, especially > in print with photographs or on the internet even with an access fee. > Interesting, you think there is enough and I think there is > frustratingly little available. Thanks for the vote in the affirmative, Don. Actually, we've done some talking about putting the book up online with an access fee, although there'd have to be a way to protect the images from being swiped. I know those ways exist, but it was for a print volume that the grants were given, technology changes might make the online version inaccessible after a few years, but a book will endure forever. It'd be a big book, 400-500 pages with 400+ illustrations. Early estimates put the retail price at in excess of $175, so it wouldn't be a best seller. As for Bob's comment about there being enough books of FLLW already, that's a subjective thing. To some people, there' s never enough, for others, two books is one book too many. This reminds me of a friend who use to blow up when he'd see "vital" in a sentence. "The only things that are vital are those that support life!," he'd yell. Well, he was right; that's what the word means. If Bob's right, we can eliminate almost everything from our lives. That has its charms. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 09:15:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:48:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:53:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199805291525.LAA26306@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > > > Right, 100 years from now "Piss Christ", the picture of Christ submerged > > > > Yikes! You obviously know much more about twisted art and artists > > than I do. I'm outta here. It's gettin' too deep for my fair soul. > > He is NOT a twisted artist. Huh? Are you saying Andres Serrano and his "Piss Christ" are okay by you, that he's not a twisted artist? S'funny, I coulda *sworn you were taking just the opposite view. You mention Picasso and your daughter; what do either of them have to do with your plaints about Serrano and his work and the fact that he's been funded? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 09:35:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 08:32:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Is it all government bucks?? Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998May29.12641.0> References: <<199805282240.PAA28006@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi Cindy: Your reply just happened to be the most convenient for a reply regarding government sponsored art. All of the comments I have read should be forwarded to your senator or representative. They are the ones who will ultimately make the decision on funding "art." In public schools we have art programs that are funded with taxpayers dollars in hope of encouraging young artists. I serve as the chairperson of the scholarship commitee of a two-county art guild. We work hard to generate dollars to fund scholarships for young people who plan to enter college in art and art education. We come together as a guild to support local art activities and each other with mutual respect for the talents of all. By directing our efforts to support young artists we enjoy a tax-exempt status for the money we make at craft fairs, art and museum activities, etc. The local city and county governments recognize our guild anytime public events and activities are held. Notice I am mute on PBS and the National Endowment Funds. I often watch PBS and have visited traveling art shows sponsored by the NEA. The administrators of these programs obviously have made some bad decisions or should I say decisions that many agree are "bad." I don't like wasting taxpayer dollers on frivilous types of activities because it is the fleecing of America. But....unless our congressional delegations know of this, nothing will change. Waited as long as I could before I jumped in. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 09:44:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 08:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: New IGGA issues going up Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:33:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199805291618.MAA28465@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk What'd I do today? I started uploading the most recent four issues of Common Ground: Glass. The 13th issue's up ... Summer '97 ... and the rest should be up this week. Issue 14's at: http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/cindex14.htm if you're interested. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 09:55:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 08:41:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive 1. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:46:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199805291618.MAA28471@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > > My opinion: #3 after: #1 are all citizens employed?, eating and living > > in acceptable housing? and #2 are all citizens receiving a proper > > education? #3 is "are they enjoying it? > > By your > statement above there should be no spending on the arts. No, I just said those were my preferences in order of importance and that the arts rank number 3 with me. If the cits are being terrorized (and with crime down everywhere, although not non-existent), neither numbers one or two would be being met. Obviously, one moves on all priorities at the same time, albeit in the order of priority. > What if we disagree. How do you and I determine what to spend money on. > In the political arena where I work, I would have several chances to > vote. Your only vote would come at election time. At that time you could vote me out, if you > had the support of enough other people. You're in the political arena? Hmm. You get more votes than anyone else? Hmm again. > And this is my point. All art is deserving if one piece is. The > government can't discriminate because some one doesn't like a piece. > They must, by definition, treat everyone equally. If you are on the > panel that decides if it is good art for the public, did you not just > decide for me what is good art. One of the great falsities of American life is that "all men are created equal." You don't have to have had much experience of life to know that that's true. Note that women were left out of the Founding Fathers' formulation. Note too that without doubt only white men were being considered "men" at the time. Discrimation in its higher definition is the ability to discern between things; if a committee choses to select an artist, to encourage that artist, the committee members are using their discriminatory powers to select that artist out of the crowd of "bad", "fair" and "excellent" artists. How do you decide which doctor you'd like to use? Do you take the first one offered by your HMO? Is the HOM discriminating by offering you a list that doesn't include all doctors? How do you decide (discriminate) between attorneys? plumbers? political candidates? By exercising your powers of discrimination. You don't hire all doctors, all attorneys, all plumbers, etc. You pick one based on your knowledge, experience, expectations ... and you also expect certain results from the selected person. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 10:15:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 09:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805291636.MAA25375@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk >Agreed, although "twisted' is a loaded, subjective term. Personally, >for example, I like Bruce Dern as an actor because he's "twisted," >although that's not to say he's insane. As an artist (actor), he's an >ideal personification of evil, one that I enjoy watching. It could be >argued that Clint Eastwood's portrayal of Harry Callahan is of a >"twisted" character. I like watching that portrayal, too. Others may >absolutely loathe Dern and love Eastwood (or vice versa), which is >their right. What's "twisted" to one is "normal" to another, also >vice versa.>> > >Albert > Twisted art was your term... <> I usually refer to it a controversial, contenious, or unsettling. Or even sometimes thought provoking. Which is what art is suppose to do.. Really it is. Honest. I swear it. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 10:48:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 09:53:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: HOPE THIS IS NOT OFFENSIVE. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805291652.MAA26014@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Your right Michael ...the original post was about the fact that the The Supreme Court has agreed to hear the issue of whether public funding to an artist can be linked with the idea of whether the art decent. Which in turn will be the downfall of the NEA. One will lead to the other. And we are talking censorship here. my best, pj (who loves discussions that make people think about their world) >Golly!!! I keep reading and reading and the remarks for this subject >heading keep going on and on. I would like to just express one thought. It >is my understanding that we are not talking about the abolishment of the >NEA but rather the regulating of it. If I am incorrect in this I would >like to be told, because at least half of what I am reading seems to be >leaping to that insinuation. Anyway this is my thought. As a society on a >whole we have deemed certain things rather objectionable and our government >is working to control these things... things like child pornography, >racism, murder etc., they are also working toward the preservation of >religious freedoms or protecting those who would find it difficult to >protect themselves, etc. >To out of your right pocket spend millions upon millions to attempt to >control these things and bring the people who do wrong to justice then out >of your left pocket give millions to some who promote these very same >things seems like shooting yourself in the foot. It would be unproductive >to your ultimate goal. I know that not all monies given by the NEA goes >toward "objectionable material" but obviously some has. > We the people... the government, recognize any individuals right to >freedom of expression, but after we have worked so hard on certain issues, >like racism for instance, if you ask the government to subsidize the mural >you want to do on the side of a building consisting of slurs toward Jews or >Blacks or Christians or any other group, or statements like the only good >cop is a dead cop... you know what I mean. I think that the government not >only should have the right, but as a taxpayer I would call upon them for >the responsibility they have to "govern" to regulate to lead. > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 11:14:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 10:35:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nb.net!sigglass From: Zane Cimera To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: HOPE THIS IS NOT OFFENSIVE. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:39:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May29.8394.0> References: <<1998May29.65617.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Michael, This thread originates for PJ Friend asking us to sign a petition to keep funding for the NEA in the budget. My original reply and thought is that the government has no business "endowing" artists - art should originate from an artist's love for his/her chosen area, through and artist pulling him/herself up by their own bootstraps or, at the least, be funded through patronage. Therefore, the abolishment of the NEA is exactly what I (and I suspect others) would like to see. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 11:44:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 10:47:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nb.net!sigglass From: Zane Cimera To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:51:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May29.85130.0> References: <<199805291636.MAA25375@water.waterw.com>> Precedence: bulk Albert & other NEA supporters: If the artists who are given money by the NEA must have a proven body of work before receiving a grant, that all the more proves the point - Mapplethorpe exhibited his pornograpic crap, Annie Sprinkles showed her golden shower videos - all before they received their funding. So the NEA not only knew what they would ultimately get (the "bad" art), they gave their stamp of approval. All at the expense of the American taxpayer forced to cough up the funds without the choice as to what his/her priorities are. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 12:43:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 12:15:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 03:18:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199805291950.PAA08499@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > If the artists who are given money by the NEA must have a proven body of > work before receiving a grant, that all the more proves the point - > Mapplethorpe exhibited his pornograpic crap, Annie Sprinkles showed her > golden shower videos - all before they received their funding. I know that some museum (too lazy to look it up) was funded to put on an exhibition of Mapplethorpe's photos. Was Mapplethorpe himself funded? Did "Annie Sprinkles" get NEA dollars to put together her "golden showers" videos? Or was it for something else? > So the > NEA not only knew what they would ultimately get (the "bad" art), they > gave their stamp of approval. All at the expense of the American > taxpayer forced to cough up the funds without the choice as to what > his/her priorities are. Obviously the majority of the committee members felt Mapplethorpe's work was of good quality and that its subject matter was all right. I would disagree, too, myself. But this goes back to my comment of yesterday (?) that it's not the artists who are at fault in that situation, but the members of the committee. That doesn't answer the question of "is support for the arts a good thing." albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 13:04:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 11:58:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!crzylynna From: "Lynn Alchin" To: "Fellow Artists" Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:02:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May29.5237.0> Precedence: bulk Hi! You know, these debates could go on forever. I, for one, would much rather LEARN about Artglass techniques, etc.; than debate who deserves to receive grants from the government, etc.. Could we just stop this nonsense, and get back to the discovery, learning and teaching??? Lynn crzylynna@email.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 13:24:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 12:02:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: HOPE THIS IS NOT OFFENSIVE. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 03:07:42 +0000 Message-ID: <199805291940.PAA08006@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Your right Michael ...the original post was about the fact that the The > Supreme Court has agreed to hear the issue of whether public funding to an > artist can be linked with the idea of whether the art decent. Which in turn > will be the downfall of the NEA. > > One will lead to the other. > > And we are talking censorship here. I disagree that merely not funding arts is equal to censorship. Having guidelines to control the funding is fine; not funding is also okay. I prefer and support funding, myself, but not supporting something isn't equal to saying others can't support it or fund it. My 2c. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 13:29:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 12:02:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Is it all government bucks?? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 03:07:42 +0000 Message-ID: <199805291940.PAA08012@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Hi Cindy: Your reply just happened to be the most convenient for a reply > regarding government sponsored art. All of the comments I have read > should be forwarded to your senator or representative. What's happening here is kind of like the old Town Hall meetings where all the locals would gather to discuss this'n'that. I think it's healthy to share our thoughts on the arts with each other, as long as we're civil and respectful. (I'm trying to be both ... and am not implying that anyone else here isn't, by the way.) Then, whether our minds have been influenced by each others' comments or not, whatever decision each of us has come to certainly *should be voiced to our representatives in Washington. Sure. Good point, Peggy. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 13:51:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 13:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Stained Glass retail stores in the Phily area. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:08:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May29.6836.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I have gotten an internet inquiry as to retail stores in the Phily area. I suspect in a 100 mile radius. Any one care to give me a few names and addresses, that I can pass along. Being on the beautiful Oregon Coast kind of leaves me out of the loop on this one. Thanks in advance. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 14:09:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 13:14:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Romajoco From: To: crzylynna@email.msn.com, Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:13:37 EDT Message-ID: <1998May29.201337.0> Precedence: bulk I agree with Lynn. Please everyone this debate could go on till doomsday. Please stop it. I have already started deleting the mail that has it in the topic. Margie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 15:18:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 14:36:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: re: Could we just stop this? not! Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:27:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May29.72734.0> Precedence: bulk I was wondering who would be the first to want to get to the bungi basics, the "discovery, learning and teaching". This is the discovery section Lynn. You will find that many learn and fewer teach. What is in this forum for the "teachers", well for one thing, discussions like this! This has been a pleasant break from the question answer regime that so often prevails. Questions are still being asked and answered, but now there is a debate of great interest for many. I didn't see these very people complaining when they were answering artglass techniques questions, nor do I feel should you complain when they are having art theory or ethics discussions. So long as there is respect, then let the debate rage on!! There is more to art than just technique, take advantage of this as well. Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: Lynn Alchin [SMTP:crzylynna@email.msn.com] Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 12:03 PM To: Fellow Artists Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Hi! You know, these debates could go on forever. I, for one, would much rather LEARN about Artglass techniques, etc.; than debate who deserves to receive grants from the government, etc.. Could we just stop this nonsense, and get back to the discovery, learning and teaching??? Lynn Alchin crzylynna@email.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 15:38:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 14:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: Please stop it! Not! Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:32:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May29.73211.0> Precedence: bulk So read my letter to Lynn, Margie, and then feel free to delete away, but it is a worthwhile topic to many, and they should be allowed to continue, I just wish I had more time to get involved with it myself! Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive I agree with Lynn. Please everyone this debate could go on till doomsday. Please stop it. I have already started deleting the mail that has it in the topic. Margie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 16:48:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 16:09:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:50:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May29.145049.0> Precedence: bulk Deleting the mail you'renot interested in is the way to handle it, Margie. I'm really enjoying this debate - first time in months that I've done anything = except answer questions and try to' help people out. This feels like a = real vacation to me and is exactly what I need to keep me on bungi a little while longer. In a mixed group like this - professionals, teachers, = retailers, students, hobbyists - every- one needs to be able to *get something from their involvement. Be patient. Your time will come 'round again. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & STudios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 17:24:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 16:44:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: No, don't stop now! Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:22:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May29.152245.0> Precedence: bulk Glenn Spicer, you took the words right out of my mouth! I know that alot of newcomers appreciate the time that Glenn, Elisabeth, Albert, and many other old dawgs give to bungi every day answering the questions that people post here. Frankly, it can get a little boring for us sometimes - let us have a little break for a few weeks before we go back to being unpaid teachers! I am thoroughly enjoying the NEA thread, would like to continue for a while longer at least long enough to explore some compromise alternatives to government funding. Half the fun of this is knowing that friends can differ, but will listen and still like and respect each other = when the debate is over. Pay = attention, you may learn something about constructive argument! Conflict is not necessarily a bad thing! New ideas will come out of this. Best regards Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 19:47:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 18:10:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stained Glass retail stores in the Phily area. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:07:58 EDT Message-ID: <1998May30.1758.0> Precedence: bulk Shirley B's inquiring mind wants to know: > I have gotten an internet inquiry as to retail stores in the > Phily area. All my money goes to: Inspirations, Inc. 3140 W. Ridge Pike Eagleville, PA 19403 Hours: Mon-Tues-Wed 11-8, Fri-Sat 11-4, closed Thurs & Sun (610) 630-0933 I'd guess it's about 20 miles W-NW of Phila (in the western "suburbs" of Norristown; your Philly friend will have an idea where that is). Barbara Jack is the owner. She also teaches classes and does custom work. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 19:58:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 18:31:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stained Glass retail stores in the Phily area. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998May29.172937.0> References: <<1998May29.6836.0>> Precedence: bulk Warner-Crivellaro is the biggest, in Allentown, with phone number available from 800 directory assistance. In the city you might try South Street Stained Glass, 22xx South Street. North of town there's Rainbow, on Rt 13 (I think) in loverly Bristol (the pearl of PA, no doubt). West -gosh, Christie, help me with your mentor's name,.... on Ridge Pike in Eagleville..... Reflections??? East, there's Studio Stained Glass in Stratford, NJ, on Rt 30 not far from 295. If your friends are going to the shore anyway, tell them to go to Cape May and visit Anything in Stained Glass on the way there. They also have an 800 number which presently evades me. South..... well, how bout southwestish? Visit my friend and mentor Patty Myers at Stained Glass Decor on Baltimore Pike in Media (610) 566-3181. My apologies to anybody I've left out... end of week exhaustion, not any deliberate slighting. All the best, Mary On Fri, 29 May 1998, Shirley Balloch wrote: > I have gotten an internet inquiry as to retail stores in the Phily area. > I suspect in a 100 mile radius. Any one care to give me a few names and > addresses, that I can pass along. Being on the beautiful Oregon Coast > kind of leaves me out of the loop on this one. > Thanks in advance. > Shirley B > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 20:07:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 16:53:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Funding the arts Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:50:32 EDT Message-ID: <1998May29.235032.0> Precedence: bulk I must agree with Albert and the others I have found this discussion very enlightening. I myself have never had any dealings with the NEA itself,but I have witnessed first hand the works of Mapplethorpe and they were very disgusting in my opinion. The exhibit I speak of was the one that started much of the contreversy in Cinti,Oh. a few years ago.That said I still believe that some Govt. funding is essential to the Arts to keep much of in front of the public. It is IMHO a necessity, some years ago I would have agreed with doing away with any funding but over the years my thoughts on this have changed. Having 4 children all still school age (2 in college) I believe that there must be programs to introduce each and everyone of our children to the fine Arts be it Dance ,Theater,or just a display of Art at a museum. And unfortunately I don't believe that it would happen as often without some funding.I personally support a local PBS station and a public radio station that I believe would not exist without some public funding. We could argue the waste of Govt. funds but that would take decades and we would all just get our dander up and maybe start another revolution!!!LOL!!! Those are some of my thoughts on this subject. Again like PJ said at least it got some people thinking about the subject one way or another and that is a good thing IMO!!! Beveler4(Stan) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 20:13:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 16:56:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, Walter) To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: long subject Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:43:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May29.114323.0> Organization: The Glass Safari Precedence: bulk How Long are you guys going to stay on the same subject??? Boy...(ha ha) Walter ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 20:20:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:34:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!crzylynna From: "Lynn Alchin" To: "Fellow Artists" Subject: Re: Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 17:40:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May29.10404.0> Precedence: bulk I certainly wasn't saying that it isn't refreshing, nor was I saying that I wasn't enjoying it. Nor was I saying that all I was after was "Free" advice. It's all been quite informative and enlightening, but... It appears to me that a few of the people discussing this could get quite offended, and if that is the case then it doesn't stay friendly. By all means; Continue on. let's just try & be factual and friendly. Lynn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 20:24:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:15:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:13:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805300013.UAA14853@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, Yes it is nice to have a topic that we can discuss in depth. I don't think that those who don't work in a studio setting realize how isolated it can be sometimes. It is nice to be able to share some conversation that involves thinking. You are right about the professionals getting something from this list. I don't mind helping anyone who needs it or asks for it. But I do find it interesting that we can do zillions of messages on stepping stones and not a word about deleting those messages. Guess its not a two way street.. And while I am here..........thanks to all who have contributed to the thread. I am elated. my best, pj >Deleting the mail you'renot interested >in is the way to handle it, Margie. I'm >really enjoying this debate - first time >in months that I've done anything = > >except answer questions and try to' >help people out. This feels like a = > >real vacation to me and is exactly >what I need to keep me on bungi >a little while longer. In a mixed group >like this - professionals, teachers, = > >retailers, students, hobbyists - every- >one needs to be able to *get something >from their involvement. Be patient. >Your time will come 'round again. > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & STudios >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 20:28:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:19:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: CompuServe.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: HOPE THIS IS NOT OFFENSIVE. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:51:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May29.14513.0> Precedence: bulk Dear Albert- I agree - not funding something doesn't necessarily equal = censorship. Likewise, when a = store chooses not to sell a certain recording artist's work, it's not censorship - it's free enterprise at work. = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 20:32:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:21:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Could we just stop this? not! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 01:17:55 +0000 Message-ID: <199805300019.BAA21401@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Glenn - and fellow sparring partners.... Your reply I felt was a thoughtful one. I for one, am enjoying this thread no end; Not only do I (and fellow Europeans) learn the prose/cons, the thoughts & feelings about Art by Artists in USA. It follows then that I as a teacher is a learner....... A number of references have been made during this thread to both Europe and "history", where WE might be able to make OUR contribution to the debate. And, like Dani, I am finding myself questionning arguments from people I would normally feel take the very words out of my mouth. And what is nice is, that we still remain the warmest and firmest of friends. Respect, I think you called it. This has been - I think - the first heated, yet friendly, restrained and respectful debate - without any temper tantrums. With other words - a REAL debate. Stifle debate and you stifle growth. For tonight my parting shot, before bed is this: Humans are learning animals. When we stop learning, we die. Godnight folks! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Glenn wrote: I was wondering who would be the first to want to get to the bungi basics, the "discovery, learning and teaching". This is the discovery section Lynn. You will find that many learn and fewer teach. What is in this forum for the "teachers", well for one thing, discussions like this! This has been a pleasant break from the question answer regime that so often prevails. Questions are still being asked and answered, but now there is a debate of great interest for many. I didn't see these very people complaining when they were answering artglass techniques questions, nor do I feel should you complain when they are having art theory or ethics discussions. So long as there is respect, then let the debate rage on!! There is more to art than just technique, take advantage of this as well. -----Original Message----- From: Lynn Alchin [SMTP:crzylynna@email.msn.com] You know, these debates could go on forever. I, for one, would much rather LEARN about Artglass techniques, etc.; than debate who deserves to receive grants from the government, etc.. Could we just stop this nonsense, and get back to the discovery, learning and teaching??? ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 20:36:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Is it all government bucks?? Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:50:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May29.145057.0> Precedence: bulk Peggy must hail from some very civilized part of the country because here in Colorado only a few congress- folks HAVE e-mail! State and U.S.! It's too unbelievable! Good idea, though. And thanks from me, too, = for the very well-thought-out, polite, respectful discussion we are having. = If we could always *talk like this, we'd never have to experience a flamefest again. ;-) = So, just to keep the topic on track, who has heard of any really controversial stained glass? Has the NEA funded any stained glass projects? = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 20:41:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:50:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Hope this is not offensive Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:43:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May29.164326.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk Deleting e mail that you're not interested is the best line of defense, but to wake up some brain cells by talking about something other than strictly issues pertaining to stained glass has been a pleasure for me to read, both pro and con. There is room here, I think, for an occasional opinion about something not glass related. I don't see a reason to stick strictly to one field of vision, I'm simply enjoying this particular debate and the particpants. Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 21:29:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 20:50:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:Beveler4@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Funding the arts Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:48:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May29.194844.0> Precedence: bulk Some good points, Stan. Maybe we could do a little brainstorming on better ways to administer govern- ment funds in support of the arts. Who should get money and for what reasons? How can we benefit the most taxpayers? What doesn't work about the existing program? And, I really am curious - has the NEA ever awarded a grant for a stained glass project (other than research)? Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 21:58:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 21:01:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, DMR74@aol.com, glass@intrastar.net Subject: Re: CEMENT/ PUTTY/SAWDUST Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:59:41, -0500 Message-ID: <199805300359.XAA18028@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>> 2. Use the sawdust of your choice instead of whiting to clean your > panels. Yes, I said sawdust. I have seen reference to the use of > sawdust in several old references to stained glass. Just sprinkle it > on and scrub with a natural brissle brush. Why natural brissle you > ask? Because such a brush digs a little bit into the lead and helps > bring out a natural black patina. After initial clean up brush > LIGHTLY with the same dirty brush every few hours for a couple of > days and you may find your lead and solder turn black and the glass > is shiney clean. does it get stuck in the cement? I 'd hate to have hairy cement.<< To be truthful I have never used sawdust to cleanup putty in stained glass. Have used it to clean oil off a cement floor. Worked well. In about a week I will have a window ready for puttying. Will try the sawdust trick. Now what type, fineness and dryness of sawdust to use? Should the wood be cut with the sap up or down? Oh hell, I"ll just use what my woodworking friend gives me. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Some wise person said, *If you want your enemy to retreat you must first saddle his horse.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 22:11:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 21:10:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: yo guys Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805300408.VAA21505@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk The bonding of giant minds is all that is coming across, smaller folk feel somewhat at a lose of what to say. Could you maybe now go private? Peabrain ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 22:24:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 21:18:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: opps Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805300417.VAA18539@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Loss........:) Who said spelling was good? Smiles, the Pea Brain ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 22:28:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 21:44:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: Denise.Berck@NIWI.KNAW.NL Subject: Re: circle Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 23:17:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May29.191717.0> References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>> Precedence: bulk Denise, I cut the lead at a neat 90 degree angle, (square), so that they just butt together. The most important point in my opinion is that they meet right where another solder or lead line comes out. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Fri, 29 May 1998 09:15:54 MET-1DST "Denise Berck" writes: >Dear all, >I would like to know how to finish a circle in lead. Do I put one end >in the other or do they just touch and get soldered? Do I cut 2 ends >at one stroke ? Straight or in an angle? >What a questions... Looking forward to some answers, > >Denise Berck >Amsterdam >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 22:43:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 21:44:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: hilary@voicenet.com Subject: Really hope this is not offensive Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:44:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May29.204428.0> References: <<199805281938.PAA04914@vger.vgernet.net>>> Precedence: bulk > >As rules are made to be broken, I am about to break the Don't Ever Get >Involved In A Flame War rule First off, Hilary, I don't believe you've gotten involved in a flame war. This is a discussion. All points of view are valid and hopefully no one will be condemned. (Patrick, please forgive me, this >should be in the bio I haven't written yet.) Second, Patrick, sorry to pre-empt your area of authority too, but then I hadn't really planned to pen a bio anyway. But, little else will show anyone where I'm coming from. Actually, these are not necessarily the things I would have chosen for a standard bio, but it works in this discussion. Graduated college with a B.S. in biology and promptly got a job (with division of a much larger company), that manufactured of stained glass lamps. (Had been doing stained glass as a hobby throughout college.) Moved up through the organization and right out of the stained glass division. The larger company was sinking fast and I jumped ship to join the Bank of New York. Worked there as the Senior Supervisor in their large central check processing operation. Got fed up with various aspects of company policy toward the workers and their reluctance to stand behind their supervisors. (At the lighting company they were not afraid to go to court if necessary to assert control over their own operation. Not so at the bank.) Left the bank in 1980 to go it alone, working out of my basement, looking for custom commissions and doing craft fairs. Finally decided that that wasn't working and sold the family home to find a place that was commercially zoned to open a storefront, but where we could live as well. Found commercially zoned property that was still in residential use and went before the local boards where the discussion went kind of like this........."Well is there anything we can do to stop him? ..........."I suppose not." And thus was born the Dodge Stained Galss Studio. Actually the above discussion has been greatly abbreviated, and dragged out over a time frame that pretty much drained all of my financial resources. By this time our first child was eight years old and we could wait no longer for a second, so I took a job for a year in order to get health insurance. Throughout all of this there were times when there was no bank accounts left to draw on. I remember having to go places and searching around the house for loose change to get gas for the car. The embarassment of pulling into the gas station and getting 35 cents worth of gas, but if that's all you can come up with........... We could have gotten welfare through these times, but I didn't feel that that was fair. After all I was perfectly capable of making a quite good living. This was MY choice and I would either sink or swim. Just because I had decided to do this "crazy" thing and become an artist did not make it YOUR responsibility to support me if I wasn't good enough or smart enough. Somehow, after the 35 cents of gas, someone would walk through the door with money for the next quart of milk, and so on. In time it all came together, and it just gets better and better, but perhaps best of all, we did it on our own. It all comes down to whether you want something badly enough to make the sacrifices called for. Today, I am often frustrated that I do not have the time to do much of the creative work that I would like to do. Gotta make what the people want, to make a living. But every once in a while I make something just for me. And why should anyone else have to pay for that? That is my recreation. I wouldn't expect an endowment to pay for my vacations either. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri May 29 23:57:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 23:18:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: To: cpesonen@bcinternet.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: yo guys Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 02:16:23 EDT Message-ID: <1998May30.61623.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 5/30/98 12:13:00 AM US Eastern Standard Time, cpesonen@bcinternet.net writes: << The bonding of giant minds is all that is coming across, smaller folk feel somewhat at a lose of what to say. Could you maybe now go private? >> Sorry Cindy, but I can't agree with you asking them to go private. I may not be understanding the full ramifications of everything or every point being made, but I certainly am learning some things and am being giving alot to think about. I will admit that I am not reading every single persons postings, but I can easily delete that which I don't have time to read, or save it until I have some time. However, if there is something else you would like to discuss or have questions about then by all means post it. I think several topics going at once would be a good thing. Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 00:11:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 29 May 1998 23:19:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Circle Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 02:18:16, -0500 Message-ID: <199805300618.CAA14782@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>>I would like to know how to finish a circle in lead. Do I put one end >in the other or do they just touch and get soldered? Do I cut 2 ends >at one stroke ? Straight or in an angle? >What a questions... Looking forward to some answers, > >Denise Berck >Amsterdam<< Well if Gerry Dodge can find time to work on this question I guess I can too. Lets just talk about, say, a 12" circle bordered with 1/2" Flat H lead. The lead may be bent by hand around the piece or may be formed around a 1/8" thick common glass blank. Now remove the lead and cut off at 90' the starting two or three inches of lead which will not be perfectly formed to the pattern. A hacksaw with 32 teeth to the inch is good for this. Place the lead back on the pattern, mark the lead for correct cutting to make a circle, remove and cut off 1/4" LONGER. Fit up again and judge for the final cut if necessary. This is my way and not infrequently I am glad I made the longer cut- in my book anything is preferable to ending up short. Using horseshoe nails or other to hold the lead in prefect alignment, flat solder the two butted ends together. I do not recommend lead for hanging circles but use 1/2" brass U-cap. Either way I place the above seam at the location of one of the two hanging hooks and solder the other hook to resemble the one with the seam. With care, the seam can not be detected. Bob Ansterdam- got to go see that fountain! ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 Some wise person said, *She has a mind like a steel trap- with a broken spring.* Mrs. L. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 01:27:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 00:56:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: Really hope this is not offensive Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 03:55:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May29.235539.0> Precedence: bulk (edited)>Gary Dodge's comments...."It all comes down to whether you want something badly enough to make the sacrifices called for." > >Today, I am often frustrated that I do not have the time to do much of >the creative work that I would like to do. Gotta make what the people >want, to make a living. But every once in a while I make something just >for me. And why should anyone else have to pay for that? That is my >recreation. I wouldn't expect an endowment to pay for my vacations >either. > >Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > >http://www.dodgestudio.com > > >_____________________________________________________________________ >Gary, You have in a sense answered your own argument. You are exactly, the kind of artist I would want the NEA to support ...(not forever mind you...LOL) but someone that has been willing to sacrifice for his art and wants to be independent and run his life and business without government support. But the key statement, was: "Today, I am often frustrated that I do not have the time to do much of >the creative work that I would like to do." Gotta make what the people want to make a living." the NEA needs to support Artists, like yourself, because your frustration and desire to fullfill your creativity for yourself when you have a chance. So with funding,the NEA would allow you....Time... not to worry about making a living ....but to experiment with your creative concepts. You never know, you may have an influence on the world, that could change it for the better...even beyond your wildest dreams. Just my simple thoughts.. Citizen of the United States Jill Medlyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 02:56:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 02:11:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: "Michael J. Greer" Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:21:48 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May30.102148.0> References: <<1998May28.163055.0@?>> Precedence: bulk In message <1998May28.163055.0@?>, "Michael J. Greer" writes >Albert- > >My biggest objection to NEA = > >endowments is that in so many >cases the government is NOT >purchasing a piece of art. They >are funding a showing of an >artists work, or a performance >piece (like the artist who nailed >himself to the VW roof and had >someone drive him around a >public square), nothing tangible, >no finished product to hang in >the Smithsonian or some other >suitable government facility. Yes, >Europe supports the arts.... the >government and the people... by >buying it. Not by handing out = > >endowments to a few artists deemed >to be more worthy than others. ............. Dani, The government through the Arts Council (or here in Scotland - the Scottish Arts Council) does several things. It supports public art galleries for running expenses, and for certain exhibitions (many private galleries also receive money to put on selling exhibitions). It does not buy items for the publicly funded galleries, the galleries have their own purchase arrangements. So, the govenrnment is insulated in two ways from the controversy over purchases - it gives a block grant to the Arts Council, who apportion that among various artistic endeavours (theatre, music, opera, performance art, dance, art, etc.). The galleries then determine what to buy. So the gallery gets the blame AND credit. The Arts Council also gives money directly to artists, mainly for travel and study. This is a common practice to support promising artists throughout Europe, I believe. Certainly, it is a common one in the UK. I haven't done the work, but it would be interesting to compare the proportion of tax monies spent on art in various countries. If the 1 one hundredth of one percent of US tax dollars is spent by the NEA (correct initials?) that was mentioned by some one is correct, It may be that the USA really is near the bottom in terms of dollars per head spent on art. (I would ask my local library to help me find out, except they are on strike protesting about the reduction in spending on libraries and art (about 20 percent). Maybe when they go back to work, I'll get their help) >I think the American arts community = > >is very quick to suggest that European >governments unload tons of cash on >its artists. Yes, they employ artists >and fine craftsman ... but, in the same >way they would hire architects, engineers, >stonemasons, interior designers, plumbers.... >well, you get my point - the artists aren't = > >place in any special group to be supplied >with special funding. It would be wonderful to have a 1 percent for the arts relating to new buildings here in the UK. There is NO incentive to spend any money on artistic decoration of new buildings. Individual architects have to convince their clients that they should spend money on "art/decoration" for their new building without any tax break. I'm not clear where you get the idea that governments in Europe employ artists and fine craftsmen in a way that is different from that done in the USA. The artists and craftsmen employed are generally conservationists working on specific historic projects - maintenance, restoration, etc. >In America, we're >perceived as some inferior special >interest group that subsists by government >welfare. That belief persists because of >too many absurd and questionable NEA >funding decisions in past years. ...... It is interesting to me that the NEA is getting a bashing because of SOME of its decisions on funding. In the UK, the Tate Gallery (a government funded national gallery), has an annual prize for "youngish" artists working in a modern tradition. This prize gets hammered every year by the tabloid papters for the "pile of bricks", the calf in formaldehyde, the cement cast of the interior of a house, etc. This prize isn't a publicly funded one, It is a private endowment. So funders do not have to be public to make dumb decisions. More importantly, the prize does stimulate discussion on the nature of art (at least outside the tabloids, where it will continue to be one of disgust at junk). ..... >what would >be a better way for our government to fund >the arts than the National Endowment for >the Arts? > This seems a question to which you should be putting an answer, rather than asking for a solution to what you see as a problem, and I dont. But anyway, there is a suggestion earlier in this post about insulating the funding from the decisions on what to by and who to support. Great discussion folks! -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 03:14:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 02:11:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: "Michael J. Greer" Subject: Re: Silver platters vs. lottery dreams Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:31:19 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May30.103119.0> References: <<1998May28.175542.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Dani, I think I see what you are saying when you indicate that the NEA should have a history-orinted role. But I think you have to ask what message that would send. I think the message would be "old is good, new is bad". That's kind of the message that is sent in the UK, leading the Prince of Wales to support the "stick-on" school of architcture (pretentiously called post modernist) which looks back to much earlier periods - well really only to certain 19th century building which was looking back to medieval and classical pastiches. If we want messages about supporting the current artistic efforts of people in our countries, we need to put the support into their work. Of course we will not all agree on which is the best to support. But we collectively need to take risks on possibly innovative artists who disturb our preconceptions or extend the art. I feel that I have to be tolerant about the decisions made by the arts administrators, even though I may disagree with individual decisions. Because, I know that without their funding of current art, the buzz would not be there to stimulate many people to buy original art rather than prints or reproductions. Steve --------------------- In message <1998May28.175542.0@?>, "Michael J. Greer" writes >Dear Albert- > >Thanks for sharing some of >your personal experiences = > >with requesting grant money. = > >I agree with you - it's not a = > >piece of cake - and the recipients >aren't living in mansions ! In fact, >we avoid it not only because of = > >political philosophy, but also = > >because it's such a pain in the >patoot! I just don't think it's worth >the effort. You bring up an = > >interesting point when you talk >about funding for historic research. >William F. Buckley made the >suggestion some months ago >that perhaps the NEA could be >"saved", but take on a more = > >history-oriented role and fund = > >things like arts history research, = > >acquisition of American art and >artifacts, folk art education, etc. >It was an intriguing possibilty in >my mind. > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 03:28:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 02:11:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Lynn Alchin Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 08:37:23 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May30.93723.0> References: <<1998May29.5237.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Lynn, On the contrary! Keep going everyone! It isn't offensive, it is informative (even though I disagree with much of the bashing of the arts administration community). Lynn you addressed your message to "fellow artists" at bungi. This issue is of fundamental importance to artists and craftspeople. Without public funding, there is no exemplar for the individuals to follow. Without experimentation there is no advance in technique or expression. My support is for the Supreme Court to rule that artistic decisions should be as free as possible from censorship. Steve (from the other side of the pond) In message <1998May29.5237.0@?>, Lynn Alchin writes >Hi! > You know, these debates could go on forever. I, for one, would much >rather LEARN about Artglass techniques, etc.; than debate who deserves >to receive grants from the government, etc.. Could we just stop this >nonsense, and get back to the discovery, learning and teaching??? > >Lynn >crzylynna@email.msn.com > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 05:24:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 04:33:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Subject: Re: Circle Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:48:17 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May30.114817.0> References: <<199805300618.CAA14782@mime3.prodigy.com>> Precedence: bulk Bob, Thanks for your reply about large circles. An interesting variation which I must try. How about small circles around, say a 35mm lens, with 1/4 inch round lead came? Steve ..... > >Lets just talk about, say, a 12" circle bordered with 1/2" Flat H >lead. The lead may be bent by hand around the piece or may be formed >around a 1/8" thick common glass blank. Now remove the lead and cut >off at 90' the starting two or three inches of lead which will not be >perfectly formed to the pattern. A hacksaw with 32 teeth to the inch >is good for this. > >Place the lead back on the pattern, mark the lead for correct cutting >to make a circle, remove and cut off 1/4" LONGER. Fit up again and >judge for the final cut if necessary. This is my way and not >infrequently I am glad I made the longer cut- in my book anything is >preferable to ending up short. > >Using horseshoe nails or other to hold the lead in prefect alignment, >flat solder the two butted ends together. I do not recommend lead for >hanging circles but use 1/2" brass U-cap. Either way I place the >above seam at the location of one of the two hanging hooks and solder >the other hook to resemble the one with the seam. With care, the seam >can not be detected. Bob > >Ansterdam- got to go see that fountain! > -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 05:38:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 04:56:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Could we stop this? not! Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 07:50:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.35052.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk Sorry to keep this going, but if you go to the NEA homepage at http://arts.endow.gov/ and do a search under glass or stained glass, you will find that there have been glass artists who have benefited under this program. Not that many I'm afraid, but they are there. I am also surprised at the whole scope of funding the NEA provides to so many different areas of art. This page was a revelation for me as to the scope of funding to such various forms of arts, and now I am more committed than ever to the NEA. There is a wealth of information there to weed through and I think picking out Robert Mapplethorpe as an example was almost an aberration as anyone who is willing to dig into all of this information will see. Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 05:54:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 05:25:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:31:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199805301304.JAA13516@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > If we want messages about supporting the current artistic efforts of > people in our countries, we need to put the support into their work. Of > course we will not all agree on which is the best to support. But we > collectively need to take risks on possibly innovative artists who > disturb our preconceptions or extend the art. I very much agree, Steve. Risky art risks outraging people, but to do away with the whole effort is also not the solution. > I feel that I have to be tolerant about the decisions made by the arts > administrators, even though I may disagree with individual decisions. Absolutely, Steve. And if the administrators persist in outraging the populace that hired them, then they can be removed and others put in their place. That's the way it works here as well as there, I'm sure. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 06:03:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 05:16:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:22:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199805301255.IAA13270@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > How Long are you guys going to stay on the same subject??? As long as it takes, as long as we're interested, as long as it's important, Walter. If everyone changes the subject line to "Arts funding" whenever the subject's being addressed (there are several different subjects at this point), then you can just delete all of the messages with that header and won't be troubled by it. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 06:15:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 05:16:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:22:15 +0000 Message-ID: <199805301255.IAA13246@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > But I do find it interesting that we can do > zillions of messages on stepping stones > and not a word about deleting those messages. > Guess its not a two way street.. Oh, there are lots of things (like stepping stones) that I can't contribute to (because I don't know everything). I read them and delete them. When I can contribute (something), I do. I'm not offended or upset if someone asks something or says something I'm not interested in. That's what the delete key's for. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 06:27:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 05:16:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:22:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199805301255.IAA13252@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Some good points, Stan. Maybe > we could do a little brainstorming > on better ways to administer govern- > ment funds in support of the arts. Who > should get money and for what reasons? > How can we benefit the most taxpayers? Since what we're talking about is money that comes from taxpayers (all of us, I suspect), there would have to be an oversight committee in the government to decide how much to give to the arts ... and because that committee would be politicians and not experienced, knowledgeable arts people, they would have to name a panel of such experts to make the decisions. We would, in other words, have to re-create what's already in place if arts were to be funded at all. Of course, if the arts are not at all funded, as some of us would prefer, the question's moot. > And, I really am curious - > has the NEA ever awarded a grant for > a stained glass project (other than research)? Not that I know of (and not that Julie knows of). However, NEA monies often go to broad arts programs, state organizations, etc. Those arts programs might include educational programs that in some cases would include stained glass (or glass generally) as a teaching series. Such money also trickles through to state organizations that help churches restore windows when the church community/congregants don't have the funds. Such support is usually a small percentage of the total cost, requires matching, double matching, triple matching of the amount given, but the money is given to preserve historical architecture in U.S. cities or the elements of such architecture. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 06:30:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 05:16:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:22:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199805301255.IAA13255@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > First off, Hilary, I don't believe you've gotten involved in a flame > war. This is a discussion. All points of view are valid and hopefully > no one will be condemned. Absolutely, Gary. Someone else asked me privately what I thought of the "flame war" on bungi and I gave them the same answer. > Today, I am often frustrated that I do not have the time to do much of > the creative work that I would like to do. Gotta make what the people > want, to make a living. But every once in a while I make something just > for me. And why should anyone else have to pay for that? That is my > recreation. I wouldn't expect an endowment to pay for my vacations > either. But the endowment ... sorry, the Endowment ... doesn't fund hobbyists or vacations. It's incredibly difficult to get funding and usually it's for a special project or a specific period of research. The applicant artist/organization has to provide proof of full-time serious work in their field, provide tax returns, letters of recommendation, etc. Usually years go by with that specific project on hold until and if funding for it is made. Now, once funding *is made, often a new application for a different project (or, in the case of organizations like orchestras, etc.) for ongoing programs, the likelihood of further funding is improved, but it's never an amount that would make it possible for the individual artist to "take a vacation" or an orchestra, for example, to no longer need to solicit funds from any and every other source. The money is always helpful, but not the whole budget. Loved your capsule bio, Gary. Stained glass to banking and back. Wow. I'll have to say that I find the arts and the arts communities (like this one) much to be preferred to the corporate world myself. Been there; done that. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 06:36:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 05:16:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:22:15 +0000 Message-ID: <199805301255.IAA13267@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I must agree with Albert and the others I have found this discussion very > enlightening. I myself have never had any dealings with the NEA itself,but I > have witnessed first hand the works of Mapplethorpe and they were very > disgusting in my opinion. Yes, I thought the Mapplethorpe photographs were technically masterful, but the subject matter was too much for even liberal ol' me. >That said I still believe that > some Govt. funding is essential to the Arts to keep much of in front of the > public. It is IMHO a necessity, some years ago I would have agreed with doing > away with any funding but over the years my thoughts on this have changed. > Having 4 children all still school age (2 in college) I believe that there > must be programs to introduce each and everyone of our children to the fine > Arts be it Dance ,Theater,or just a display of Art at a museum. And > unfortunately I don't believe that it would happen as often without some > funding. It's balance and thougtfulness that the NEA needs, I think. Obviously, they need to be careful about what they fund ... and I think they are, for the most part, since it's only a very small number of grants that people have been enraged by. I don't think anyone can discount the value of opening children's eyes to art, music and dance. I hope not, anyway. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 06:42:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Circle Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:22:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199805301255.IAA13264@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Lets just talk about, say, a 12" circle bordered with 1/2" Flat H > lead. The lead may be bent by hand around the piece or may be formed > around a 1/8" thick common glass blank. Now remove the lead and cut > off at 90' the starting two or three inches of lead which will not be > perfectly formed to the pattern. A hacksaw with 32 teeth to the inch > is good for this. Bob, you wouldn't need a hacksaw for lead, would you? Perhaps you were thinking of the harder metals? Zinc? Brass? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 06:51:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 05:17:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:22:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199805301255.IAA13261@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk I hope nobody minds, but I'm changing the name of this thread (and other similar threads) to "Arts funding." As this is an unmoderated list, it may seem presumptuous of me to do something like that, but it'll make it easier for those who are deleting this thread out of hand and for those who want to set a filter to delete it automatically. Again, hope my doing this isn't offensive. > The government through the Arts Council (or here in Scotland - the > Scottish Arts Council) does several things. Steve, you've pretty much described the way it works in the U.S. The government gives the money to the NEA, which would be the equivalent of your Arts Council, and they distribute it for pretty much the same reasons and in the same ways. Galleries, museums, orchestras, state and local arts organizations support themselves with a combination of what's received from NEA, from private donors and individuals. > The Arts Council also gives money directly to artists, mainly for travel > and study. This is a common practice to support promising artists > throughout Europe, I believe. Certainly, it is a common one in the UK. Again, the NEA works the same way for the same reasons. > I haven't done the work, but it would be interesting to compare the > proportion of tax monies spent on art in various countries. I tried to do this (since my bluff was called) but was able to find online only the rantings of the political right and one site that showed how much was spent by category, but no total expenditure and no comparisons with other countries' budgets. I'm still looking and will report what I find (if I find it). > If the 1 > one hundredth of one percent of US tax dollars is spent by the NEA > (correct initials?) that was mentioned by some one is correct, It may be > that the USA really is near the bottom in terms of dollars per head > spent on art. I've read and remember reading that the U.S. is near the bottom of the list internationally. I'll see what I can find out. > It would be wonderful to have a 1 percent for the arts relating to new > buildings here in the UK. There is NO incentive to spend any money on > artistic decoration of new buildings. The U.S. percent-for-the-arts program applies only to government construction. Private and corporate construction is exempt, although many largish companies include artworks in the design of their buildings with obvious beneficial results. I lived in Germany for three years in the early 60s and remember that (at least then) they had broader requirements that reached into the private sector. > It is interesting to me that the NEA is getting a bashing because of > SOME of its decisions on funding. There certainly does seem to be absolutely no understanding on the part of some people that it's *people who are making the decisions, that it's *people who are the government, and that *people are prone to error, if someone else's decisions can be seen as error rather than merely a different point of view. In the U.S., of course, we have ways and means of removing from office those who take what we decide are wrong decisions, but many of those who want to dump support for the arts entirely because of a very small number of what they perceive as "wrong" decisions want to "throw the baby out with the bath water," as I've said before. But then that's merely my opinion, Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 06:51:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 05:17:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:22:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199805301255.IAA13258@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > So, just to keep the topic > on track, who has heard of any really > controversial stained glass? Has > the NEA funded any stained glass > projects? Not as I'm aware (see other message). As for controversial glass, yes. Back in the 70s, a Pennsylvania artist built a few double-hung sash windows. The upper part was, uh, female. The lower part was, er, male. Very male. When you opened the bottom sash, the result was a very controversial and public (if the window were installed facing the street, say) display of what is usually a very private, um, affair. The rumor was that they were purchased by, who else?, Bob Guccioni, but the artist has now for years denied he ever built them (see early issues of Glass Art magazine, the one published from California and Oregon, *not the one from Colorado that still exists) because his reputation for "dirty windows" kept him out of church window repair work. And no, they weren't funded by the NEA. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 06:59:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 06:17:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hope this is not offensive Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:16:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.51620.0> References: <<199805290643.HAA08357@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > Both science and technology is government funded / > sponsored, and, quite rightly so - so should the arts. > With science and technology, there again we may not always like it, > or approve where it's taking us. > > ... > (Lots snipped) I haven't had time to read all this thread...Let's face it, when budget crunch comes, it's the arts that get the ax. It's happened in school systems all over the country (USA). Not art, no music. And that isn't good for the kids. There is a connection between the arts and academics. Learning art is learning history and sociology and psychology (people tell a lot about the way they see the world in the art they leave behind). Learning drawing and painting is learning mathematical concepts, physics. Learning music is learning a language. If we want scientists and engineers and doctors, I think we need art and music. Now art in the schools isn't NEA funded, but it is certainly government funded Not completely connected to the above, but on the topic, I believe I heard that a portion of the funding for new state buildings in Connecticut includes funding for public art to be put in the building. I work at the state Medical school. The place is filled with art. Some of it I hate. Some of it I love. Some of it turned out to be ephemeral (sculptures that didn't hold up to the weather). There's a statue of a prenant lady in a courtyard. Sometimes in bad weather, people will go out and put a hat on her head or drape a lab coat over her. There's an abstract sculpture by ob ultrasound that is smooth and white and is quite relaxing to the touch. And there are stained glass dividers in the cafeteria. Dorothy K ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 07:56:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 07:21:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:26:17 +0000 Message-ID: <199805301459.KAA16878@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Sorry to keep this going, but if you go to the NEA homepage at > http://arts.endow.gov/ and do a search under glass or stained glass, > you will find that there have been glass artists who have benefited > under this program. Not that many I'm afraid, but they are there. I am > also surprised at the whole scope of funding the NEA provides to so many > different areas of art. This page was a revelation for me Ah, Carol, why didn't I think of going to the source? Don't worry about continuing this thread. Obviously lots of us are interested and it's important, methinks. As for Mapplethorpe and others being singled out, that's what one does to further one's arguments: use as examples those items that bolster it, not those that counter it. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 08:10:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 07:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:28:29 +0000 Message-ID: <199805301501.LAA16961@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I haven't had time to read all this thread...Let's face it, when budget > crunch comes, it's the arts that get the ax. It's happened in school > systems all over the country (USA). Not art, no music. And that isn't > good for the kids. But football, never football. Or most of the other physical sports. Never sports, not that! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 08:27:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 07:42:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Stained Glass retail stores in the Phily area. Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:41:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.64128.0> Precedence: bulk Inspirations, Inc. Ms Barbara Jack, Owner 3140 West Ridge Pike Eagleville, PA 19403 610-630-0933 Hours M-W 11-8, F,Sat 11-4 Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass Charles Warner, owner 1855 Weaversville Road Allentown, PA 18103 1-800-523-4242 or 610-264-1100 fax1-800-523-5012 or 610-264-1010 Bargbara Grieble, bookkeeping dept. charles@fast.net email: warnerc@fast.net http://www.warner-criv.com Rainbow Glass 1009 Bristol Pike Bensalem, PA 245-4169 815 Route 13 Bristol, PA 785-3034 Country Crafters Stained Glass 1940 Ridge Road (Rt. 23 West) Pottstown, PA 19465 610-469-9779 South Street Stained Glass 2209 South Street Philadelphia, PA 215-735-2415 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 08:47:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 07:55:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: Kris To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: yo guys Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:52:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.65233.0> References: <<199805300408.VAA21505@ns2.vphos.net>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk NO! Keep it on the list please. I'm also a small folk and I'm always at a loss in the midst of giants but I'm learning SO much as usual on this list. I agree the big folks should continue this discussion that they are totally enjoying, a nice break from answering questions from small folks. My delete key works just fine if it gets to be too much mail for me, but I rarely do this because I might miss some wonderful tidbit of info. Kris Cindy Pesonen wrote: > > The bonding of giant minds is all that is coming across, > smaller folk feel somewhat at a lose of what to say. > Could you maybe now go private? > Peabrain > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 09:12:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 08:25:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass Enamels Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805301523.LAA24401@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk On a less contraversial subject.................... I was wondering those who use enamels. How long do you let the enamels dry before firing? Or do you pop them right into the kiln. Just curious. my best, pj (who knows this won't start any in depth discussion) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 09:42:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 08:32:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Arts funding/Stained GLass artists Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805301532.LAA24635@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Well the only stained glass artist I know that gets any major funding and that is only through PEW Trust and the Louis Comfort Tiffany award , does only controversial work. Judith Schaechter. Heres a good debate on craftsmanship.................her painting techiniques are really wonderful..........her stained glass craftmanship is questionable. The majority of her work starts at 5,000.00 and these are small works 26"x28 and so on. Check her out................... http://www.netreach.net/~mcreep/schaechter/ This could start a whole new thread.............I hope I haven't created a monster here. I just need some good stimulating conversation. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 09:55:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 08:50:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Arts funding Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805301548.LAA25073@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk > >But football, never football. Or most of the other physical sports. >Never sports, not that! > >Albert Nows that a whole other kettle of fish. Here in histerical (historical is the proper name) Haddonfield, for years we have had one high school art instructor. One tired old man who was tenured before I was born. (only kidding). And this gentleman only taught basic art. Period. I as an artist having a gifted child who was born to be an artist..............was to do what??? Send her to a private school that has a wonderful art program? I don't think so. Not on an artist's income. To make a long story very short............there was also a room full of truly unused potter's equipment.............six wheels...............four kilns...............extruders...........you name it ...........but no instructor.........couldn't afford to add one to the faculty. I even asked if I could instruct after school those children who were interested.........for free. Nope. Nothing. BUT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>new lighting for the football stadium.............new soccer field..................new equipment. New gym. New track field...........and I could go on. Done in a heart beat without a blink of the eye. So you go to the school meetings.........and they look at you like you have two heads and you ask about the arts. And they tell you they have Art Goes to School programs that in my opinion suck............showing prints to students and discussing them is not ART. And you volunteer to open your studio to students. And nothing......... Oh well off my soapbox. As a side note...........the child did survive...........a BA in animation and a masters in art education...........and no student loans. And for some reason wants nothing to do with glass. Oh well. So our art has supported another artist. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 10:08:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 08:59:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: lamp heat Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:58:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.75846.0> Precedence: bulk i probably asked this before for the fish lamp, but new faces, new answers. i need to know how hot a lamp can get before it needs a vent. i plan to have a vent of some kind. but the vent will be built in to the soffit of a dome, which means the the heat has to travel up into the dome before exiting, which i guess is ok. i plan on using at least 2 bulbs, probably 60w, and a another one in the bottom, at 40-60w. which would make it really 3 bulbs. the lamp would probably be on for 2-6 hours every so often. and the bulbs sould be about 4-6" away from any glass. i need to know if there is a chance of the glass getting too hot, a little hard to explain, since i know what the lamp will look like. i just don't want the lamp to crack or catch fire. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 10:36:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 09:49:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Hope this is not offensive Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 07:40:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May30.04043.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Michael J. Greer [SMTP:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 3:49 PM Dani Greer said Good art does not have to be controversial, offensive, sexist, alarming, or negative to be GOOD! If you want to produce art with the above labels, go for it.... but, it's a bit much to expect the taxpayers to pick up the tab! Going back a few days, Dani, I couldn't agree more, but I feel that if it does not come under these headings, then at times it should come under the public purse as the public will enjoy it. As far as saying that this is censorship, no, it should be up to a public panel to make this choice, and choice is not censorship. Let an at gallery have the panel of art people to choose the and place it where those who choose to see this can go and see it so it does not have to be in the face of those who might be offended. (and yes I know that there will always be some who will be offended by anything but I am talking majorities here) Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: Carol Tombro [SMTP:ctombro@InfoAve.Net] Sent: Thursday, May 28, 1998 6:20 AM Carol T said I do hate censorship of any kind. The Robert Maplethorpe issue, which I personally felt was obscene, did start this ball rolling, only it seems to be rolling more towards something I don't believe belongs in this country; censorship. Going back a few days, Carol. Censorship exists and will always, hopefully, exist. censorship means "overseeing morals or conduct". From the time we are born we are censored, "don't hit your sister", to adults "don't kill your neighbour". No censorship is total chaos, too much censorship is suppression, censorship is needed but with intelligence. A parent censors their children, a community should censor adults who by their views or actions harm society (e.g. hate literature, slander, or violence), the difficulty arises in the gray areas, an there will always be gray areas. These gray areas need an intelligent referee, and not all will agree with the referee, but if the majority do not support him let them find a new referee. Public art is seen by all, children, adults, races, religions, political affiliations, etc. and so should be tempered to not offend the majority (not an easy task). Art that is not in the open, but in galleries, needs more freedom. Art in private is pretty much up to the maker and buyer, it is their business. I feel that the government should have a budget for the purchasing of public art for the public but with the taste of the general public in mind (i.e. a panel representing citizens to guide them). Likewise, the communities should pay for public art for the community with a panel representing the community to guide them, the gallery should pay for their art with a panel of art people to guide them, right down on the line to where an artist by himself in his own environment does what he pleases and if an individual likes it he buys it for his own pleasure. Censorship and freedom are relative, either one without limits is meaningless. Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 11:25:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 10:44:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------BBB87BDC77E731E83EFEB21E" Subject: schaechter as an artist? Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:42:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May30.3425.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BBB87BDC77E731E83EFEB21E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well pj, I just visited the site in question. Humm, I felt her work was fabulous. I think it's in a matter of how each individual responds to certain works. Her work is controversial but eye catching and stimulating to me. Maybe it's not for everyone but my visual response to her work was positive. I would also like to say that I am new to this discussion group and have enjoyed all of the tech talk and the like. I am also wondering if anyone has worked with Glasuette Lamberts glass, if so please let me know. Would like to hear some feedback on the glass itself. --------------BBB87BDC77E731E83EFEB21E Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ n: President~;Pamela Burns-Tappan~ org: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com title: Moswood Mountain Limited x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------BBB87BDC77E731E83EFEB21E-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 11:42:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 10:30:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Arts funding Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:29:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.92917.0> Precedence: bulk >It's balance and thoughtfulness that the NEA needs. Bulls-eye! (glass-related;-) - That's precisely it! And, yes, I keep hearing the excuse that they're just humans and make mistakes. History is full of examples of worthy lives that have been destroyed by one bad decision. A bit melodramatic perhaps, but the NEA seems to have had more than its fair share of boo-boos wihtout any real consequences. And, we have = certainly seen administrative turn-over. We have replaced the leadership. So, what's going wrong? Is it just ancient history coming back to haunt? We've = heard about some of the snafus. Now, what are some of the coolest NEA-funded projects you've heard about? Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 11:54:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 10:31:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Arts funding Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:29:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.92910.0> Precedence: bulk >Risky art risks outraging people, but to do away with the whole effort is also not the solution. I agree wholeheartedly - I just don't agree that the government should fund risky art. If they're to fund any art, = let them fund "safe" art that even the crowds can enjoy - after all, the crowds are paying for it. Experimental, progressive art will still survive. Those who are truly interested in exploring and learning more, will find venues for their = curiousity. In the meantime, don't bite the hands that are feeding you (i.e. the taxpayers). I think the zeal to expose the public to every out- rageous art form known to mankind is absurd! It's not the government's job to do that kind of educating. I simply don't trust them enough to do the job right. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 11:57:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 11:00:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: Kris Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: yo guys Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:57:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.95735.0> Precedence: bulk Just remember, gang, within every giant mind is a pea-brain! Right now I'm trying to replace the blasted flapper in my toilet tank. So much for inspiration and brilliant ideas! ;-0 I've come to the conclusion that the inside of an old toilet tank is more disgusting even than... well, some art I've seen. = Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 12:09:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 11:27:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: alewis@vgernet.net, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Circle Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:25:32, -0500 Message-ID: <199805301825.OAA10646@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>. Now remove the lead and cut > off at 90' the starting two or three inches of lead which will not be > perfectly formed to the pattern. A hacksaw with 32 teeth to the inch > is good for this. Bob, you wouldn't need a hacksaw for lead, would you? Perhaps you were thinking of the harder metals? Zinc? Brass? Albert<< I like the hacksaw (actualy I mostly use a very fine tooth drop saw) because lead dikes tend to crush 1/2" Flat H lead. I do use lead dikes on all smaller lead cames though. As for using a traditional lead knife- I don't. Someone else asked what I do with wraping 1/4" H round lead around a 35mm circle. At least I think that was the question. First, if a choice of hardness of lead is available choose the softest. I use lead dikes to cut the lead at about a 45' angle. Then wrap the lead around the circle by rolling it on a hard surface and cut the lead at the same angle to allow it to overlap. Now I roll the lead encircled glass on the hard surface to bring the two ends of the lead down and together. Properly done there is a *perfect* circle of lead that will solder without a trace of the seam. Easier to do than describe. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *She has a mind like a steel trap- with a broken spring.* Mrs. L. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 12:23:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 11:36:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D63D87BF46C196F9C6D25D20" Subject: Potential Flame! Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:35:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May30.43510.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D63D87BF46C196F9C6D25D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I must apologize to you all for becoming a potential flamer. My response to pj should have been that as an artist I am open to all works of art, whether someone else likes it or not. I don't judge another artist but only myself, as we all do individually. So as I learn the ropes of internet lingo (flamer: Don't talk about anyone online at any time or you will be in deep weeds) be patient and so I'll shut up now.... --------------D63D87BF46C196F9C6D25D20 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ n: President~;Pamela Burns-Tappan~ org: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com title: Moswood Mountain Limited x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------D63D87BF46C196F9C6D25D20-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 12:34:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 11:39:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Hope this/Arts Funding Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:36:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.103615.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Glenn- I agree that we can never please everyone. And, it would be a nice thing if public panels worked. I think they work best on a very local level. And, even then, that = approach is questionable if the city of Denver is any example. It's astounding the level of citizen out- rage about public art and architecture that is funded by their arts tax district. Of course, they've funded some good stuff, but the level of really abominable work is truly astounding! Next time = you're in Denver, check out the Denver Public Library as an example. This = is one city that would do well to put their arts decisions to popular vote! My point is that I question whether a national panel isn't doomed to failure selecting art, because the sensitivities and sensibilities of people are so varied = in a country this size. I doubt if the = NEA is that "in tune". Of course, the NEA does disburse some funds to the local level - but, perhaps thats ALL they should be doing. Maybe states = should be more directly involved in disbursing federal arts funds. (Am I = suggesting here that the NEA might be superfluous? ;-0) = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 12:55:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 12:03:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: schaechter as an artist? Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805301903.PAA01044@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Pamela, Our studio uses Lambert glass for the majority of our commission.s. You can see some our work at http://www.waterw..com/~artglass. I do believe there are quite a number of works there totally created with Lambert. The Lion and Lamb for one I am certain. Their palette of colors and flashed glass can not be compared to anyone. We are currently working on a commission for a catholic church in Princeton. This installation is also totally created with Lambert. What other feedback would you like on the glass? I happen to enjoy Judith;s work also. And admire her techniques. Her glass painting skills are definitely awesome. I happen to personally believe that art should be stimulating and thought provoking. Photorealsim bores me to tears sometimes. Glad you joined the discussion. my best, pj >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >--------------BBB87BDC77E731E83EFEB21E >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Well pj, I just visited the site in question. Humm, I felt her work was >fabulous. I think it's in a matter of how each individual responds to >certain works. Her work is controversial but eye catching and >stimulating to me. Maybe it's not for everyone but my visual response to >her work was positive. I would also like to say that I am new to this >discussion group and have enjoyed all of the tech talk and the like. I >am also wondering if anyone has worked with Glasuette Lamberts glass, if >so please let me know. Would like to hear some feedback on the glass >itself. > >--------------BBB87BDC77E731E83EFEB21E >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" > >begin: vcard >fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ >n: President~;Pamela Burns-Tappan~ >org: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html >email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com >title: Moswood Mountain Limited >x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 >x-mozilla-html: FALSE >version: 2.1 >end: vcard > > >--------------BBB87BDC77E731E83EFEB21E-- > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 13:08:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 12:13:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: lamp heat/fish Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:12:54 EDT Message-ID: <1998May30.191254.0> Precedence: bulk mike, why not try to incorporate air holes somewhere else within the lamp. I think I am understanding that the lamp has fish of some kind in it, if so how about the fins or tail area, if you are using filligree that would be easy just don't put glass behind the filigree, or use smaller piecesof glass be hind the filligree to allow for air escape. Otherwise you can maybe have spaces between weeds in the water as part of the pattern. As far as the heat having to go all the way to the top that's the nice thing about Hot air it rises and very rapidly deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 13:19:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 12:16:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: yo guys Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805301916.MAA12323@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > > >Yes! Pea Brains can rule the world! >Toilet bowl eh? What fun. >You must have seen the art bought by us Canadains. >Smiles, Cindy >PS it's nice to know if I say something stupid you all don't gang up on me:) > > >>Just remember, gang, within every >>giant mind is a pea-brain! Right now >>I'm trying to replace the blasted flapper >>in my toilet tank. So much for inspiration >>and brilliant ideas! ;-0 I've come to the >>conclusion that the inside of an old >>toilet tank is more disgusting even >>than... well, some art I've seen. = >> >> >>Best, >> >>Dani Greer >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 13:26:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 12:27:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nb.net!sigglass From: Zane To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: schaechter as an artist? Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:34:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May30.103454.0> References: <<1998May30.3425.0>> Organization: Signature Glass Company Precedence: bulk I think I can rest my case based on Lucifer Poops, Murder and Child and Rape Serenade. Fabulous - well, in a perverted way I guess she is fabulous. What a sad, sad commentary on today's values. I consider myself young but I weep for my generation. Zane Pamela Burns-Tappan wrote: > > Well pj, I just visited the site in question. Humm, I felt her work was > fabulous. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 13:40:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 12:32:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Really hope this is not offensive/bio Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:27:58 EDT Message-ID: <1998May30.192758.0> Precedence: bulk Gary, I'm glad to see a short bio of your stepping stones to the area in which you would be most happy. (this letter was much longer the first time around) Politics and art and education and welfare as one is a subject that I shouldn't get started on, I have strong views on all this and would much rather let people who enjoy debates to hash it out. I like to keep my mail short and sweet. I get my relaxation in other ways, yes art is one of them, but not debating. So those who like the debate have fun, I peek in every once in a while, I can nod my head at all sides of this and have a lot to say but just would rather not, my delete button works fine, just the same as when the thread is fusing glass and I don't want to go there. We all have to set limits on ourselves as time is very precious and we can only do soo many things that we would like to. deb the only real thing that bothered me in one post was the statement that we were asking for free advice, I was hoping that it was given because you want to and enjoy it not because we are interupting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 13:57:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 13:11:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Desag "flashed" glass Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805302010.NAA01241@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Guys, My supplier tells me Desag no longer makes black flashed on clear, big bummer. Does anyone know of a manufactor who does make black on clear? Much thanks, Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 14:09:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 13:23:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: schaechter as an artist? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:29:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199805302103.RAA28254@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Well pj, I just visited the site in question. Humm, I felt her work was > fabulous. I think it's in a matter of how each individual responds to > certain works. Her work is controversial but eye catching and > stimulating to me. To me, too. I have admired Judith Schaechter's work for years. It's absolutely fabulous. Well drawn, well painted, well executed, visceral, enchanting. What I like about it particularly is its evocation of art from the Middle Ages, Hieronymous Busch, for example, which probably wouldn't have gotten an NEA grant at the time ... no, check that. It probably *would have! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 14:26:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 13:27:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: New IGGA issues going up Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 04:32:37 +0000 Message-ID: <199805302106.RAA28338@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk What'd I do today? I started uploading the most recent four issues of Common Ground: Glass. The 15th issue's up ... Winter '97 ... and the rest should be up this week. Issue 15's at: http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/cindex15.htm if you're interested. It includes some absolutely stunning glass work (lampmaking, in this case) by Robert Mickelsen. Enjoy! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 15:28:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 14:24:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "M. Savad" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: lamp heat Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:25:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May30.72534.0> Precedence: bulk Why are you worried about the heat? My shades stay on in the galleries for HOURS, if not days at a time. Glass melts at what temperature????1800 or so, Solder melts at 500+ Sockets will take the heat and not "catch fire". If someone sticks their tongue on bulb, sure they will be "burned", but the heat from the glass is not enough to cause any damage if one does not stay on it. USE flourescents (screw in type with a transformer) if heat is a concern (unwarranted in my opinion_. enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 15:44:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 14:33:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Albert Lewis Subject: Re: Arts funding Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:29:21 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May30.232921.0> References: <<199805301459.KAA16878@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk As a result of looking at the NEA site listed below, I saw that the NEA has 81 million dollars to distribute for 1998. This is less than 40 cents per person per year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is pretty paltry! It won't buy much bread for the starving. I'd (as a foreigner) say you all were getting excellent value for tiny amounts of money. You might also note that this is down from about 90 cents per person in 1992 (the peak). This would indicate to me that the arts in the USA are having a difficult time of things in terms of government funding. Steve In message <199805301459.KAA16878@vger.vgernet.net>, Albert Lewis writes > >> Sorry to keep this going, but if you go to the NEA homepage at >> http://arts.endow.gov/ and do a search under glass or stained glass, >> you will find that there have been glass artists who have benefited >> under this program. Not that many I'm afraid, but they are there. I am >> also surprised at the whole scope of funding the NEA provides to so many >> different areas of art. This page was a revelation for me > >Ah, Carol, why didn't I think of going to the source? Don't >worry about continuing this thread. Obviously lots of us are >interested and it's important, methinks. > >As for Mapplethorpe and others being singled out, that's what one >does to further one's arguments: use as examples those items that >bolster it, not those that counter it. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 15:57:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 14:40:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Subject: Re: Circle Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:34:45 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May30.233445.0> References: <<199805301825.OAA10646@mime3.prodigy.com>> Precedence: bulk Thanks Bob. this is what I wanted to know. My technique to date has been to make most of the circle, then cut the heart of the lead out and overlap the leaves. Finally, I cut the overlap with side cutters to get a butted set of ends. Steve In message <199805301825.OAA10646@mime3.prodigy.com>, BOB DUCHESNEAU writes >Someone else asked what I do with wraping 1/4" H round lead around a >35mm circle. At least I think that was the question. > >First, if a choice of hardness of lead is available choose the >softest. I use lead dikes to cut the lead at about a 45' angle. Then >wrap the lead around the circle by rolling it on a hard surface and >cut the lead at the same angle to allow it to overlap. Now I roll the >lead encircled glass on the hard surface to bring the two ends of the >lead down and together. Properly done there is a *perfect* circle of >lead that will solder without a trace of the seam. Easier to do than >describe. Bob > >____ >Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 >*She has a mind like a steel trap- with a broken spring.* Mrs. L. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 15:57:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 14:49:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Pamela Burns-Tappan Subject: Glasuette Lamberts Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:46:39 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May30.234639.0> References: <<1998May30.3425.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Lamberts glass is a joy to work with. Great clarity, scores and breaks like a dream. My favourite glass. Pitty I can't afford it more often. Steve In message <1998May30.3425.0@?>, Pamela Burns-Tappan writes .............. > I >am also wondering if anyone has worked with Glasuette Lamberts glass, if >so please let me know. Would like to hear some feedback on the glass >itself. > >[ A MIME text / x-vcard part was included here. ] > -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 18:42:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 16:26:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 07:32:41 +0000 Message-ID: <199805310006.UAA03231@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I'd (as a foreigner) say you all were getting excellent value for tiny > amounts of money. You might also note that this is down from about 90 > cents per person in 1992 (the peak). This would indicate to me that the > arts in the USA are having a difficult time of things in terms of > government funding. Ah, Steve. All that was needed was a fresh eye. Not that what you've found out will change any of the antis' attitudes. My wife often says, "Convince a man against his will and he'll be of the same opinion still." Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 18:53:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 16:33:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: iname.com!alpas From: "-" To: "Stained Glass list" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: polymer resin Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 01:46:47 +0100 Message-ID: <1998May30.24647.0> Precedence: bulk You can use double-glass to make a sandwich with your panel inside. The outer glass can be laminated, wired or annealed to protect against rocks, children balls, lost bullets, falling asteroids, axe throwers, flying hails, jumpig fish, and all those kind of things :-) This is water-proof, and isolates temperature, dust and noise. The disadvantage is that the lead relief is not so obvious, and some optical reflections can ruin the effect, specialy from outside Other disadvantage is the price, but your client will pay it, if he still is rich after paying for the panel ;-) Regards Luis Sousa alpas@iname.com UIN 3410031 >>> Mike said: i wonder if you could use this process with stained glass. if you could pour the clear one over a finshed artwork. you could display it outside. it would be weather proof. and if it's as strong as you mentioned, maybe even hail resistant... ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 18:53:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 17:19:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: lamp heat/fish Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:18:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.161832.0> References: <<1998May30.191254.0>> Precedence: bulk DMR74@aol.com wrote: > > mike, > why not try to incorporate air holes somewhere else within the lamp. I think > I am understanding that the lamp has fish of some kind in it, if so how about > the fins or tail area, if you are using filligree that would be easy just > don't put glass behind the filigree, or use smaller piecesof glass be hind the > filligree to allow for air escape. Otherwise you can maybe have spaces > between weeds in the water as part of the pattern. As far as the heat having > to go all the way to the top that's the nice thing about Hot air it rises and > very rapidly > deb > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass actually the fish lamp is done, this would be for the sky city project... it's hard to explain what it looks like. imagine a bowl with the curved side up. put a cylinder on top of the bowl, about 3" in diameter or so. on top of that cylinder would go another dome about 4" in diameter. the vent that i'm planning so far would be in the space between the 2 walls, about 1" all the way around. but that still leaves me with around 2-3" of space for heat to collect in. the uppermost dome has'nt been planned yet. i can make the whole thing a vent if i wanted. that dome won't be supporting any kind of weight. but i still want the bulk of it to be glass. designs i thought of were mainly dealing with a lattice type design following the shape of the curve. or some sort of open shingle design, but that would'nt allow enough space for heat to get out effectively. and it would'nt allow light to pass through it because it would be metal. and the last idea i just thought of while typing this and that's to use a cupola (sp), made of copper, maybe patinaed green. i just don't want any part of this lamp to crack, it would be very difficult to fix... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 19:05:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 16:54:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: schaechter as an artist? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 07:32:41 +0000 Message-ID: <199805310006.UAA03235@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I weep for my generation. "Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit hath a man of all his labor which he taketh under the sun? ... The wind goeth toward the South; and turneth about unto the North; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits." Not a new plaint a'tall. There's nothing new under the sun. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 19:06:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 18:05:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: ptap@pacifier.com Subject: Re: schaechter as an artist? Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:23:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.122334.0> References: <<1998May30.3425.0>> Precedence: bulk Pamela, I've worked with some Lamberts glass. In particular the craquel, the full restoration glass, and a couple of multi color antiques the name of which I can't remember right now. The glass is nice. Cuts well and it's gorgeous. Once I was at SA Bendheim when they had just received some cases of Lamberts that were multi colored mixes of pink, yellow, blue, purple, etc. Each sheet was like a painting. Almost a crime to cut it up! There were a bunch of us there ooohing and aaahing as each sheet came out of the case. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com . I >am also wondering if anyone has worked with Glasuette Lamberts glass, >if >so please let me know. Would like to hear some feedback on the glass >itself. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 19:56:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 19:11:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Howard and Elaine Rubin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: lamp heat Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:25:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.162522.0> References: <<01bd8c11$7b715700$34926ac6@howardru>> Precedence: bulk Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > > Why are you worried about the heat? > > My shades stay on in the galleries for HOURS, if not days at a time. > > Glass melts at what temperature????1800 or so, > Solder melts at 500+ > Sockets will take the heat and not "catch fire". > > If someone sticks their tongue on bulb, sure they will be "burned", but the > heat from the glass is not enough to cause any damage if one does not stay > on it. > > USE flourescents (screw in type with a transformer) if heat is a concern > (unwarranted in my opinion_. > > enjoy, H flourescents have their place. but over all it would be bulky. the light will have a touch switch in it. at first i was'nt going to use it because my fish lamp kept turning it self on. i later found out that the lamp was shorting itself out due to my mess up in the wiring... i never really checked but can heat push itself out of the bottom? most hanging lamps and the one on the "common" bases have large open areas on the bottom. this lamp will have about a 2-3" gap around the edge. mainly this is something i have to work into the design. that, and how the electrical system will be suspended with in the lamp. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 20:11:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 18:51:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: DMR74@aol.com Subject: Re: Really hope this is not offensive/bio Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 21:33:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.173314.0> References: <<1998May30.192758.0>> Precedence: bulk deb >the only real thing that bothered me in one post was the statement >that we >were asking for free advice, I was hoping that it was given because >you want >to and enjoy it not because we are interupting The statement in question was not from one of my posts. I don't think that the person who wrote that note meant it that way. I certainly do enjoy helping out, and I'm sure that anyone else who is offering advice is doing so out of similar motives. I suppose the author of that comment was feeling a bit used and just wanted to remind the person who was complaining that no-one OWES them anything. Nobody is paid to contribute to bungi and as such each member is entitled to a thread that they enjoy as long as it's somewhat relevant and kept civil. Here's an amusing story along these lines: Once on the prodigy bb's there was a thread running between most of the real regular contributors about pet cats in the stained glass studio. It went on for a while, and what's more, the bb's are very nicely organized, and you don't even have to go near a thread if you're not interested. Well all of a sudden some unknown person who must have been a long time lurker came out of the blue with a really strong reprimand for all the participants.. Something to the effect that they owe him .....yadda yadda glass glass....... Although I wasn't one of the participants in the cat discussion, my jaw must have dropped open when I read his post! No one replied to his reprimand, but all of a sudden cats were popping up everywhere, even in threads that had nothing to do with cats and in peoples signature lines. In fact, there are cats there to this day! Cats! Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 20:25:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 18:56:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: alewis@vgernet.net Subject: Re: Circle Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 21:47:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.174733.0> References: <<199805301255.IAA13264@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk I like to use a little saw called a razor saw that fits into an exacto handle. They also make a tiny mitre box to go with it, but now I have been using the morton mitre box that locks the came in place while I saw. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Fri, 29 May 1998 20:22:16 +0000 "Albert Lewis" writes: > >> Lets just talk about, say, a 12" circle bordered with 1/2" Flat H >> lead. The lead may be bent by hand around the piece or may be formed > >> around a 1/8" thick common glass blank. Now remove the lead and cut >> off at 90' the starting two or three inches of lead which will not >be >> perfectly formed to the pattern. A hacksaw with 32 teeth to the inch > >> is good for this. > >Bob, you wouldn't need a hacksaw for lead, would you? Perhaps you >were thinking of the harder metals? Zinc? Brass? > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 20:33:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 18:57:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: morn@nac.net Subject: Re: lamp heat Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 21:45:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.174542.0> References: <<1998May30.75846.0>> Precedence: bulk Mike, I know this sounds strange, and I have never studied it out at all to verify the feasability, but I have a customer who swears that one of her lamps got so hot that the solder in the top pieces melted and it broke! Anyone out there know the surface temperature of an incandescent bulb? Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com > >i need to know if there is a chance of the glass getting too hot, a >little hard to explain, since i know what the lamp will look like. i >just don't want the lamp to crack or catch fire. > >---Mike Savad > >-- _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 20:38:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 19:07:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: dodgestudio@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: lamp heat Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:07:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May30.18716.0> References: <<19980530.215140.3958.3.dodgestudio@juno.com>> Precedence: bulk dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: > > Mike, > > I know this sounds strange, and I have never studied it out at all to > verify the feasability, but I have a customer who swears that one of her > lamps got so hot that the solder in the top pieces melted and it broke! > Anyone out there know the surface temperature of an incandescent bulb? > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > > http://www.dodgestudio.com > > > > >i need to know if there is a chance of the glass getting too hot, a > >little hard to explain, since i know what the lamp will look like. i > >just don't want the lamp to crack or catch fire. > > > >---Mike Savad > > > >-- > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] i guess if she used a 100-150 watt bulb, and the bulb was very close to the solder, that could happed. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 22:38:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 21:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Test Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:21:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May30.182133.0> Precedence: bulk I haven't received any mail from Bungi since 27 May 98. Patrick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat May 30 22:50:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 30 May 1998 21:46:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nb.net!sigglass From: Zane Cimera To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Arts funding Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 00:50:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May30.195047.0> References: <<1998May30.232921.0>> Precedence: bulk So, if I give 40 cents to the arts, and pay 55 cents tax on gasoline (1/2 the price) and tax on this and tax on that, all of which come from my work dollars which are taxed to begin with, nobody has a problem with this? Nobody thinks it is wrong for the government to take from the poor to support that which is beneficial to so few (not the arts here, I mean everything). Gov't protects itself because it has become a corporation. Otherwise, our senators/congressmen/presidents wouldn't campaign so hard for re-election. It is criminal to have a monopoly in this county, yet that is what our gov't is. The biggest crime of them all is that our tax forms claim our taxes are "voluntary" - uh huh. I say, return the taxing to the local level, and return funding for the arts to a local level, and people would be happier (and richer). ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 01:31:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 00:42:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: Schaechter perversions Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:25:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May30.16255.0> Precedence: bulk These are some of the quotes from Judith Schaechter "I don't have too many worthy and profound ideas.............. I certainly have never heard a philosophy or intellectual concept so compelling that it merited illustration........... My main interests are sex and death, with romance and violence the obvious runners up" I can't say that I am impressed with her as an artist, even less with her as a human, but at least she appears to keep her twisted side to her work, I hope. I would not fund her based on her *artists?* statement. I would not want to endorse a psycho. Nor am I impressed with funding and awards to her, why encourage sick obsessions. Censorship? No, let her do her work and sell it to those depraved enough to want it. Just don't put it where it will be in my face. Maybe I'm not being clear here. let me clarify, I don't like her attitude or her work!! (said with emotion ;-) ) Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada Pamela said Well pj, I just visited the site in question. Humm, I felt her work was fabulous. I think it's in a matter of how each individual responds to certain works. Her work is controversial but eye catching and stimulating to me. Hm, stimulating and eye-catching, kinda makes me wonder where you are coming from, care to elaborate? Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: pj friend [SMTP:artglass@water.waterw.com] Sent: Saturday, May 30, 1998 8:32 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Arts funding/Stained GLass artists Well the only stained glass artist I know that gets any major funding and that is only through PEW Trust and the Louis Comfort Tiffany award , does only controversial work. Judith Schaechter. Heres a good debate on craftsmanship.................her painting techiniques are really wonderful..........her stained glass craftmanship is questionable. The majority of her work starts at 5,000.00 and these are small works 26"x28 and so on. Check her out................... http://www.netreach.net/~mcreep/schaechter/ This could start a whole new thread.............I hope I haven't created a monster here. I just need some good stimulating conversation. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 03:34:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:41:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: Pat Kelly Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Test Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 05:42:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May31.14258.0> References: <<1998May30.182133.0>> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk Hi Patrick, I must have been getting your mail, I'm starting to get "doubles" again. I will send it along if I can get it outta the trash . Rick http://home.fuse.net/crafts/ Pat Kelly wrote: > > I haven't received any mail from Bungi since 27 May 98. > > Patrick > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 06:04:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 04:52:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Censorship & Freedom Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:50:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199805311151.MAA12602@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Well said Glenn, I go back to my Swedish roots again and to 2 lessons I was taught "knee-high to a grass-hopper": Freedom is a responsibility - not an unconditional Right; My Freedom ends, where someone else's begins (and v.v.) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Glenn said (edited) Likewise, the communities should pay for public art for the community with a panel representing the community to guide them, the gallery should pay for their art with a panel of art people to guide them, right down on the line to where an artist by himself in his own environment does what he pleases and if an individual likes it he buys it for his own pleasure. Censorship and freedom are relative, either one without limits is meaningless. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 06:24:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 04:52:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:50:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199805311151.MAA12593@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk I don't know whether you have the same problem in USA, as we have here in UK.... Politicians are appointed with a particular portfolio. The amazing thing is, that 2 days after their appointment, they sprout words of authority in a subject they know absolutely nothing about. This is why (in UK) we have had such disasters in the last 20 years about vital decisions in Healthcare, Education, Transport, Utilities .... and the ARTS. The "sub-committees" existing or formed to "advise" the Minister of Education, Minister of Arts and so on, tended to be - on the whole - pen-pushing civil servants, more interested in clocking up their service years and adding to their old-age pension fund, then doing something sound in their respective area (sorry! yes I AM generalizing...). As Steve in Scotland quite rightly pointed out (and which I neglected badly to high-light), we have the British Arts Council (which I take to be roughly the equivalent of the NEA). Scotland is doing its own thing and has a Scottish Arts Council. I have had a fair amount of dealings with the B. Arts Council - not least to obtain help with funding for groups of British Artists to exhibit and represent Britain abroad. Zilch. Stained Glass is not "covered" by the British Arts Council, we are being recommended to approach the less august body, calling itself The British Crafts Council (located in a run-down, seedy part of East London, better known for its prison), which may be open when you go there, yet again - it may not. ("Shortage of staff - you know" Gee! Thanks!) The attitude towards The Arts currently here, is perhaps reflected that a "couple of Ministers ago", the encumbant was labelled with the soubrique of "The Minister For Fun". What can we do to turn the situation and attitude around? To get REAL experts into the Seat of decision making? Over Here, there is now a Football-Frenzy.... a foot-baller breaks an ankle and it's national tragedy; not enough tickets for a match is a scandal of national importance. Who cares about not enough exhibition catalogues for the Picasso exhibition, the Bonnard Exhibition, the Carl Larson Exhibition in London. There were literally thousands of people frustrated at this lack of provision, this lack of foresight, this total lack of planning at these exhibitions. London and its galleries priding itself on being foremost in the League of International Culture.....(Hmm?) In the football scenario, the "fans" are expected to go on a rampage and international police resources are employed at great (tax-payers' expense) to monitor and control the situation. Maybe it's time for the "Arts Fan" to become more vociferous. We know all about beer-swilling football "yobs" Over Here. The rebel in me is beginning to become "tickled" by the idea of "wine-swilling Arts Yobs" (yeah! home-brew too! I'm not fussy!!) going on a rampage to draw more attention to the Arts, perhaps to engage and employ a little bit more funding and attention.International Police Forces out in strength, MI5, Interpol, FBI ... here we come!!! Chain me to the railings! I said elsewhere, that the Arts (in either its most elaborate and complicated form - right down to its simplest , instinctive form and reassurance), consitutes the "survival-kit" of the human soul. We ALL draw from it, even unknowingly. It deserves better. So, how can we make it better?? Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (The Viking Rides Again!) Albert wrote (as well as protesting about football)... (edited): Since what we're talking about is money that comes from taxpayers (all of us, I suspect), there would have to be an oversight committee in the government to decide how much to give to the arts ... and because that committee would be politicians and not experienced, knowledgeable arts people, they would have to name a panel of such experts to make the decisions. We would, in other words, have to re-create what's already in place if arts were to be funded at all. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 06:38:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 04:52:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: long subject Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:50:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199805311151.MAA12599@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Well, Walter... ...For as long as we feel like it! It makes a stimulating break (for some of us) from stepping stones, sun-catchers and fairy monsters. We are not complaining and are very happy to make contributions and offer help & suggestions for these subjects - as always. But the loooong subject you refer to, is one of fundamental importance to artists and craftspeople across the globe. It is one that a lot of us have very strong feelings about. We may not be able to come up with the simple solutions, but in the process of airing it, we too learn something, we gain a better understanding of the issues and the problems, we are even able to look at, explore how other countries approach the issues. If you want to share this learning process with us - fine. If not, then don't complain just because YOU are bored. Just hit your delete button. Freedom and freedom of speech works both ways. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Walter asked: How Long are you guys going to stay on the same subject??? Boy...(ha ha) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 06:50:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 04:52:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Really hope this is not offensive/bio Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:50:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199805311151.MAA12609@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Deb, No, advice is freely given for free, in exchange for "free" discussion/ debate on issues other than just question/answer issues. Many of us just like to get right into the ethics, philosophy, history and so on of what we are doing. As Dani said, it like a "holiday" and we don't want to be made to feel guily about it. Now and then, an old dog has to have his day.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Deb wrote: the only real thing that bothered me in one post was the statement that we were asking for free advice, I was hoping that it was given because you want to and enjoy it not because we are interupting ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 07:05:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 05:30:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:35:29 +0000 Message-ID: <199805311309.JAA25070@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > So, if I give 40 cents to the arts, and pay 55 cents tax on gasoline > (1/2 the price) and tax on this and tax on that, all of which come from > my work dollars which are taxed to begin with, nobody has a problem with > this? Wasn't it 40 cents a *year? The 55 cents per gallon on gas keeps those roads we use in repair (or at least semi-repair). Note that gas for our cars is heavily subsidized; in Europe, for example, it's usually more than $5/gallon. Two weeks ago in Scotland it cost more than $50 to fill a small car's tank. Besides, that 40 cents/year is for the most part returned to local regional uses. albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 07:19:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 05:30:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Schaechter perversions Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:35:29 +0000 Message-ID: <199805311310.JAA25073@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > These are some of the quotes from Judith Schaechter > "I don't have too many worthy and profound ideas.............. I certainly > have never heard a philosophy or intellectual concept so compelling that it > merited illustration........... My main interests are sex and death, with > romance and violence the obvious runners up" Sounds modest and, ahem, patently American to me as far as her interests go, if the tabloids at the supermarket checkout are any guide to the American psyche. She sounds both brave and honest. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 07:24:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 05:30:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: schaechter as an artist? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:35:29 +0000 Message-ID: <199805311309.JAA25067@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > My, my, you are waxing so philosophical since you got back from Scotland. > Good to have you back, friend! Thanks, Suzanne. I've always been philosophical ... or at least a little tired, if that counts. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 08:31:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 07:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Circle and lead work Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 07:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805311403.HAA06394@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Gary and everyone, Is this razor saw like a little hack saw? I'm using 3/8 flat H at the moment and hate the way the ends go. I have tried the dremel and it just melts the lead. So I use my little nippers and cut out the heart of the came at the end and then recut the edge smooth. My small little hack saw wasn't very good either, still had to open the ends up. Does a lead knife work better or does it also flatten the ends? Thanks, Cindy The dremel is great for hard metal. > Gary wrote: >I like to use a little saw called a razor saw that fits into an exacto >handle. They also make a tiny mitre box to go with it, but now I have >been using the morton mitre box that locks the came in place while I saw. > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 09:08:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 07:32:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Arts Funding Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:24:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May31.6249.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk The question is, who will censor the censors? Who can decide what is and what isn't obscene. Personally, I find Guernica obscene, but it's so compelling that each time I look at it I find something new there. I find it obscene because it deals with war, which to me is the ultimate obscenity. My elected officials in this state, one of whom stopped the Mapplethorpe exhibition, have decided for me that a lottery is bad for me morally, but I am now allowed to carry a concealed weapon, Uzi, evidently included, anywhere in this State. So, who, with all of the evident differences of opinion as to what is obscene and what is not, is to be the ultimate censor? Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 09:55:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 07:47:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: icq members ? Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:42:32 +1000 Message-ID: <1998Jun1.104232.0> Precedence: bulk is there anyone in the bungi list who is a member of ICQ see www.mirabilis.com for more details my icq # is 8365697 is there anyone interested in starting a webring about stained glass ? Harlequin Leadlight Home page http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 10:36:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 08:15:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lamp heat Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 08:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805311515.IAA04007@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > > > >>Anyone out there know the surface temperature of an incandescent bulb? >> >Hi there, >>I'd say hot, but not that hot to melt solder. Heat pressure cracks in the glass yes, if it has no where to expand to. Like a glass piece in the window. >Hmmm, my hubby tells me sockets are rated. I once put in a bulb too big for the socket and found out it had dried up the wiring and was looking a little burnt, down the road that could have been trouble. >Smiles, Cindy >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 10:51:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 08:24:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Schaechter perversions Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805311522.LAA02041@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk I personally have been to lectures where Ms. Schaechter has spoken. She is more than interesting. In fact she is really really funny. When you hear the stories behind the work it takes on a whole different image She would have the audience in tears from laughter. She is a young and very very smart business person. And represented by an extremely smart gallery in Philadelphia. Personally my take on her work .................................and this is just my opinion. Is that it just hadn't been done. She found a gimick and it worked for her. Paintings about rape and demention had been done and redone ..................but stained glass nope. Never been done............. I have attended many of her openings in Philadelphia and the audience ranges from the young and hip to the blue haired mommas. And her work sells like hotcakes. I also happened to own an art gallery in Olde City, Philadelphia when she first came to the gallery scene there. The tone of work at that time in that area was very contraversial. The newer galleries where really into some heavy "shock art" and some of the larger installations were unreal. And I must admit the work I handled was very tame compared to my neighboring galleries. So talk about being at the right place at the right time. my best, pj > >Sounds modest and, ahem, patently American to me as far as her >interests go, if the tabloids at the supermarket checkout are any >guide to the American psyche. She sounds both brave and honest. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 10:51:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 08:31:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glasuette Lamberts Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805311530.LAA02320@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Steve, We just picked up some beautiful red crackle, flashed Lambert at Benheim's in New Jersey for $4.00 a square foot. I am in heaven. I think Paul purchased all they had. Sometimes you can get a real find. But I won't tell you what our last invoice was............ my best, pj >Lamberts glass is a joy to work with. Great clarity, scores and breaks >like a dream. My favourite glass. Pitty I can't afford it more often. > >Steve > >In message <1998May30.3425.0@?>, Pamela Burns-Tappan >writes >.............. >> I >>am also wondering if anyone has worked with Glasuette Lamberts glass, if >>so please let me know. Would like to hear some feedback on the glass >>itself. >> >>[ A MIME text / x-vcard part was included here. ] >> > >-- >Steve Richard >Verrier Art Glass Ltd >s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 11:04:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 08:42:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------482A8E11E1247C0DEFCC1137" Subject: Re:Schaechter perversions Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 08:41:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May31.1410.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------482A8E11E1247C0DEFCC1137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gee Glenn, way to livin' up my Sunday morning! Where am I coming from you ask? Well I can appreciate her honesty. Personally I don't dress up in leather on a Monday morning, and whip my co-workers as we score (pun intended). I am grateful that Judith applies her idea's to her work, makes me feel secure in my home at night. As far as funding an artist with such controversial attitudes, well hey, we ARE dealing with goverment here. I didn't really want to go into the arts funding issue, I think that what has been discussed already has been right on the mark in my opinion. But my point with every individual artist, Judith included, is that this is our medium for expression. Here's a thought: What about funding a program that would teach the convicts, housed in our great institutions, stained glass techniques. Then give them each a large grant. Wouldn't that be ironic, and thanks for getting my mind set today in the humorous mode! --------------482A8E11E1247C0DEFCC1137 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ n: President~;Pamela Burns-Tappan~ org: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com title: Moswood Mountain Limited x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------482A8E11E1247C0DEFCC1137-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 11:15:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nb.net!sigglass From: Zane Cimera To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Arts funding Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:59:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May31.65915.0> References: <<199805311309.JAA25070@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert, That statement is not true. Pennsylvania just shot down the Regional Renaissance Tax and I was on the side who shot it down. I spent hundreds of hours of my own personal time revealing the slick lies made up by those who wanted to steal money from our pockets with claims that the "money would remain local". As soon as the state or federal gov't has an opportunity to get their hands on money, they will and they do not return it. What is disbursed is usually given away in pork subsidies to pet projects. Highest concentrate of NEA funding goes to Washington and NYC. Zane Albert Lewis wrote: > > Besides, that 40 cents/year is for the most part returned to local > regional uses. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 11:19:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 09:02:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: polishing question Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 09:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805311602.JAA07595@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, When working out the polish (kempro) in the edges of the glass to the foil I use a qtip. Just wondering what you all use? It's a long job with qtips. Smiles,Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 12:27:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:16:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Arts Funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 01:21:41 +0000 Message-ID: <199805311756.NAA03366@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > The question is, who will censor the censors? Who can decide what is > and what isn't obscene. Personally, I find Guernica obscene, but it's > so compelling that each time I look at it I find something new there. Each of us is our own censor. Obviously, each of us prefers to not expose ourselves to this or that, but that or this might not be offensive to someone else. When it comes to children, though, we have to act on their behalf; parents' examples are the best, IMHO, even though parents themselves might partake in things not allowed their children ... oh, I'm starting on a tangent I don't have time to follow up on, but you see where I'm heading. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 12:47:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:31:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Arts Funding Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805311653.MAA04763@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Well if you have ever watched the committee meetings on CSPAN you will know. And to be honest with you...........those people scare the heck out of me. my best, pj (who wonders who elected these people.....not certainly moi) >The question is, who will censor the censors? Who can decide what is >and what isn't obscene. Personally, I find Guernica obscene, but it's >so compelling that each time I look at it I find something new there. I >find it obscene because it deals with war, which to me is the ultimate >obscenity. > >My elected officials in this state, one of whom stopped the Mapplethorpe >exhibition, have decided for me that a lottery is bad for me morally, >but I am now allowed to carry a concealed weapon, Uzi, evidently >included, anywhere in this State. So, who, with all of the evident >differences of opinion as to what is obscene and what is not, is to be >the ultimate censor? > >Carol T > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 13:02:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:39:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6B63AC49121E4E90173CD649" Subject: ICQ and webring Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:37:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May31.33755.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6B63AC49121E4E90173CD649 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gerard Well I run ICQ and use it on my site. I have also, within the last couple of weeks, started a webring for artists. Have not had 1 person, besides myself even interested, well except for the sponsers. If you would like to join the addy is http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html The large companies, mainly marketing etc. would have you believe that a webring is ineffective. My company has located outstanding products through this system. It doesn't or shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg to market your products, but as we all know there are hands outstretched at every turn to take our almighty buck. Check it out and see if it's something that you want to do. --------------6B63AC49121E4E90173CD649 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ n: President~;Pamela Burns-Tappan~ org: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com title: Moswood Mountain Limited x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------6B63AC49121E4E90173CD649-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 13:11:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:40:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A29E2C75C8BF4C4DEB8974AC" Subject: ICQ and webring Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:38:26 -0700 Message-ID: <1998May31.33826.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A29E2C75C8BF4C4DEB8974AC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gerard Well I run ICQ and use it on my site. I have also, within the last couple of weeks, started a webring for artists. Have not had 1 person, besides myself even interested, well except for the sponsers. If you would like to join the addy is http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html The large companies, mainly marketing etc. would have you believe that a webring is ineffective. My company has located outstanding products through this system. It doesn't or shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg to market your products, but as we all know there are hands outstretched at every turn to take our almighty buck. Check it out and see if it's something that you want to do. Pam --------------A29E2C75C8BF4C4DEB8974AC Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan~ President~ n: President~;Pamela Burns-Tappan~ org: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com title: Moswood Mountain Limited x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------A29E2C75C8BF4C4DEB8974AC-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 13:16:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:53:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Arts Funding Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199805311752.KAA28008@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk If we have a censor of the censors, would that not be a dictatorial way of life? Some would say we should judge our own, hence we have elected different groups of people to do that. And in my opinion that does not always work. In your next statement of gun control, really brings up a sour note for many in Canada. As things are changing here quickly, and many hunters will be left out in the cold. (sorry for getting off beat here) But there again we have decided to let these people be the decision makers in our lives. It's just my opinion, we have elected many groups of people for many different issues and the bottom line is you can't please everyone. And on the art issue, chuckle, who decides what is obscene, I beleive that decision truely belongs with the artist. Smiles,Cindy > >The question is, who will censor the censors? > >My elected officials in this state, one of whom stopped the Mapplethorpe >exhibition, have decided for me that a lottery is bad for me morally, >but I am now allowed to carry a concealed weapon, Uzi, evidently >included, anywhere in this State. So, who, with all of the evident >differences of opinion as to what is obscene and what is not, is to be >the ultimate censor? > >Carol T > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 13:33:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 10:55:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: cpesonen@bcinternet.net Subject: Re: Circle and lead work Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 13:50:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May31.95056.0> References: <<199805311403.HAA06394@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk Cindy, The razor saw has a very thin blade with lots of very sharp tiny teeth. It can cleanly cut lead, zinc, even brass cames. As for a lead knife, it will flatten the heck out of a wide came. I use the razor saw on 1/2" flat cames and get a pristeen edge. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com >Hi Gary and everyone, >Is this razor saw like a little hack saw? I'm using 3/8 flat H at the >moment >and hate the way the ends go. I have tried the dremel and it just >melts the >lead. So I use my little nippers and cut out the heart of the came at >the >end and then recut the edge smooth. My small little hack saw wasn't >very >good either, still had to open the ends up. Does a lead knife work >better or >does it also flatten the ends? >Thanks, Cindy >The dremel is great for hard metal. >> >Gary wrote: >>I like to use a little saw called a razor saw that fits into an >exacto >>handle. They also make a tiny mitre box to go with it, but now I >have >>been using the morton mitre box that locks the came in place while I >saw. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 14:49:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:17:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re:Schaechter perversions Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 03:22:36 +0000 Message-ID: <199805311957.PAA06736@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > What about funding a program that would teach the convicts, housed in > our great institutions, stained glass techniques. Then give them each a > large grant. Wouldn't that be ironic, and thanks for getting my mind set > today in the humorous mode! Odd that you should mention convicts, Pamela. Wearing my other hat (the Art in Architecture Press hat), we fairly often get requests from convicts for books we publish. One of them, "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," was requested by an inmate at Sing Sing a couple of weeks ago. Of course, he wanted a free copy, not being in the income-earning part of society at the moment. They're restoring the window in the chapel at Sing Sing and he hoped we'd oblige. We did, thinking that restoring a window is a lot healthier an activity than others I can think of from old prison movies. Okay, it had a small wrinkle in the back cover where the printer packed a carton too tightly. Otherwise, it was perfect and we got a very nice letter thanking us. Made our day. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 15:15:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Arts funding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 03:22:36 +0000 Message-ID: <199805311957.PAA06740@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > That statement is not true. Pennsylvania just shot down the Regional > Renaissance Tax and I was on the side who shot it down. Okay, Zane, let's say you're right. Now let's discuss the impact of 40 cents a year on one's life, politics entirely to one side. You know, I used to get complaints from would-be subscribers to a magazine I published a while back. I was proud of the magazine, since it was full-color throughout, well-produced (that is to say, high-quality photographs of recent stained glass work), and packed with both technical and business articles, in addition to shots of beautiful work. The subscription price was $45/year. Now people would complain that it was too expensive. But when I asked if it was worth 87 cents a week, 12 cents a day, they tended to get real quiet. Then subscribe. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 15:32:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, cpesonen@bcinternet.net Subject: polishing question Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 16:05:44, -0500 Message-ID: <199805312005.QAA20918@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Hi everyone, When working out the polish (Kem-O-Pro) in the edges of the glass to the foil I use a qtip. Just wondering what you all use? It's a long job with qtips. Smiles,Cindy << Cindy, If you do it MY way you find that all that white polish is quickly removed and your project shines. After polishing with a soft cloth I brush the foiled stained glass piece with a new putty brush. The bristles get in the corners and remove all that white stuff. :-) Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *She has a mind like a steel trap- with a broken spring.* Mrs. L. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 15:55:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:12:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: thecia.net!pcm From: Philip McRae To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: polishing question Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 16:06:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May31.1260.0> References: <<199805311602.JAA07595@ns2.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk Cindy... The simplest way, and the fastest, is to use a stiff bristle brush. Not a floor scrubbing brush, but not a soft shoe polishing brush. Just brush briskly and the bristles get all the polish out, and really buff the solder to a beautiful sheen. I do it on my lampshades after applying patina and the wax. The black or copper patina does not scratch or rub off. After spending several hours with a q-tip this brush thing came to mind and works really, really, well. Philip McRae Cindy Pesonen wrote: > Hi everyone, > When working out the polish (kempro) in the edges of the glass to the foil I > use a qtip. Just wondering what you all use? It's a long job with qtips. > Smiles,Cindy > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 16:42:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:49:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: polishing question Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:47:13 +0000 Message-ID: <199805312048.VAA17415@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Try using a very soft natural bristle baby brush. You might find this just as effective and cutting short the Q-tip work... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Cindy asked: Hi everyone, When working out the polish (kempro) in the edges of the glass to the foil I use a qtip. Just wondering what you all use? It's a long job with qtips. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 17:02:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:02:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Arts Funding Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 16:54:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May31.12540.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk I wrote that an elected official in my State was partially responsible for the decision regarding the Mapplethorpe exhibition and in the same breath tried to show an analogy of being denied the simple ability to buy a lottery ticket, partly because of this same man, and (not gun control) also partly responsible for legalizing the carrying of concealed weapons. I think there is a conundrum here. I certainly did not vote for this man, but he is an institution in this State and likely to remain so. This wasn't meant to get into gun control issues, only to show the relationship between the power of one man to affect our lives in such different ways by exercising his own personal beliefs for what he believes is for the good of the people. End of analogy. Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 17:08:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:26:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: discussion Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 17:25:42 EDT Message-ID: <1998May31.212542.0> Precedence: bulk I love this discussion...I work long days, take care of an elderly home bound mother with complex medical needs when I get home.....and then voila: I feel like I have invited over a group of friends for dinner, with good food, lots of beverages of choice, and great conversation......even "time-outs" while Dani fixes the toilet......which the inside of could be considered "negative-space" to some artist somewhere... Hey someone pass the beer-nuts.... Maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 17:33:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:16:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Arts funding Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 17:14:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May31.13144.0> Precedence: bulk What IS the percentage of NEA funding to the states? And how is it determined? Even more interesting, how much do various states contribute from the state level? You know, the more we've discussed this, the more I realize I don't know enough FACTS. When we started this debate, per capita NEA spending was $1.21. Our friend = from Scotland informs us that we're down to forty cents! Well, that's a mighty big drop. Let's aim for some some truth here. And, then look at the picture. Might give us a third view. Best regards, Dani Greer = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 18:47:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 15:49:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass Magazines /New and Old Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805312248.SAA15893@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk And one of the better magzines I must say. Never a complaint from us. I still have all my back copies. I guess there is not a whole lot of money in the mag business. Otherwise we would see more than three or four magazines dedicated to stained glass. Would love to see a magazine that doesn't publish the same artists and the same photos over and over again. Although Stained Glass Quarterly isn't as repeatious as the other two. Not that I don't appreciated at least having something to read. my best, pj > >You know, I used to get complaints from would-be subscribers to a >magazine I published a while back. I was proud of the magazine, since >it was full-color throughout, well-produced (that is to say, >high-quality photographs of recent stained glass work), and packed >with both technical and business articles, in addition to shots of >beautiful work. The subscription price was $45/year. > >Now people would complain that it was too expensive. But when I asked >if it was worth 87 cents a week, 12 cents a day, they tended to get >real quiet. Then subscribe. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 19:08:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 16:06:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: polishing question Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 19:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199805312305.TAA16412@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Hi CIndy, If you take a wooden dowl like a shish kabob stick with a pointed end, and move it over the panel with cheescloth on the end...........doesn't have to be wrapped on it or anything . It will not only remove the white film from the polish it will also shine you solder. Couldn't live without cheescloth. my best, pj (who knows that she is gonna pay for spending so much time on this computer) >>Hi everyone, >When working out the polish (Kem-O-Pro) in the edges of the glass to >the foil I >use a qtip. Just wondering what you all use? It's a long job with >qtips. >Smiles,Cindy << > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 20:14:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 17:23:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: alewis@vgernet.net Subject: Re: Arts funding Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:17:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May31.161749.0> References: <<199805311957.PAA06740@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi, Kinda hate to get in the middle here, but the point has shifted subtly . I think the point is not what 40 cents means to me, but rather how all those 200 million 40 cents"es" could be better spent to help those in real need. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Sun, 31 May 1998 03:22:36 +0000 "Albert Lewis" writes: > >> That statement is not true. Pennsylvania just shot down the >Regional >> Renaissance Tax and I was on the side who shot it down. > >Okay, Zane, let's say you're right. Now let's discuss the impact of >40 cents a year on one's life, politics entirely to one side. > >You know, I used to get complaints from would-be subscribers to a >magazine I published a while back. I was proud of the magazine, since >it was full-color throughout, well-produced (that is to say, >high-quality photographs of recent stained glass work), and packed >with both technical and business articles, in addition to shots of >beautiful work. The subscription price was $45/year. > >Now people would complain that it was too expensive. But when I asked >if it was worth 87 cents a week, 12 cents a day, they tended to get >real quiet. Then subscribe. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 22:27:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 19:37:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio #24 Gerard Goulat Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:34:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May31.163430.0> Precedence: bulk Name: Gerard Gouault Born: Le Mans, France in June 1945 I lived in Australia since 1971 Started doing stained glass about 7-8 years ago after loosing all hope of finding work and my partner got redundant (what a concept !!) we built up a small business in Hobart Tasmania first selling at markets then we had a small shop on the harbour. We also were giving classes and selling glass and supplies. We moved to the Sunshine coast Queensland about a year ago chasing more tourists as customers. We are having a hard time rebuilding the business from scratch. I have about 20 years experience in computers too so we are now turning to the Internet to try and increase our sales, especially our Tiffany lampshades. We do not have too many original designs because we do not see ourselves as "artists" but we have developed some sort of style as "craftpeople" We hope to retail our lamps and a full assortment of books, tools and supplies on the net. I am designing a new site complete with online buying. Harlequin Leadlight Home page ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 22:53:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 19:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio # 25 Kay Allen Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:41:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1998May31.164134.0> Precedence: bulk Name: Kay Allen (fullspec@sunset.net) Age: Born in August of 1944. A thoroughly modern Leo. Location: Chico, Butte Co., California ( 1 1/2 hrs. by car north of Sacramento where one goes to pick up California lotto winnings.....still waiting!) Occupation: Retired from a profession chosen early in life. High school career testing back in the 1960's indicated I had equal interests in arts and medical-technical. I chose a medical-technical career, lured by a way to support myself. I did, with the help of several husbands. Present marital status: Married to a very wonderful man, Bill. Just had 11th anniversary on Feb. 14th. Children: None, but I planned it that way. (However, see Pets) Pets: 3 cats (What else for a Leo). One ten year old Himalayan male named Cervantes de la Mancha, one eleven year old Siamese-mix female named Esmeralda de Barcelona (yes, we traveled throughout Spain for 8 months in 1985 and I was enamored by it's history and everything else Spanish) and one seven year old Abby female named, Cleo Allen, AKA "Squeakers". All of the above can easily fend for themselves when Bill and I want to leave for a week or so doing whatever....... Background: Born in Houston, TX. Second of seven children. Went to parochial school until 10th grade. Parents divorced. Attended four different high schools before I graduated in 1962 in Stamford, CT. (Thanks to aunts, cousins, etc.). Higher education (in Medical Technology): Centenary College, Shreveport, LA, Northwestern State University, Natchitoches, LA, Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, LA. Left higher education before obtaining a degree and kicked myself hard every time I would get a paycheck. Worked in the medical laboratory field full time for thirty years. Past and Present Interests: Photography, Classical and Folk Guitar, Calligraphy, Graphology, Travel (especially cruises), Needlepoint, Gourmet Cooking, Gardening, Learning how to use the Computer, Karaoke, Genealogy, and, of course, Stained Glass. How I got interested in Stained Glass: A few years ago, Bill and I went to Tijuana, Mexico to buy a small round stained glass insert for a bedroom window in our Los Angeles home. It fit just perfectly and only cost $60. Later, when a friend viewed the window, he said, "Why don't we learn how to do that?" So I found the only local teacher and we took a few classes. Made the ubiquitous "beginner" Tulip 10" x 12" sun catcher that took six weeks to complete. The teacher had only been doing stained glass for three years but had his own store front and studio. He did excellent lead work and seemed to always have a large commission in progress. The person I took classes with soon wanted to set up a work shop in my garage, so we bought all the necessary tools, and made two 4' x 8' work benches. Our second project was making two identical sidelight panels for my kitchen eating area window ( we chose a fairly simple pattern but it was still a big step up from the two little sun catchers we first made). Over the next few years we made panels for almost every window in my house. The contemporary design of the house offered us almost every shape window to work with. The projects became increasingly more complex and our skills grew. Since we lived in a subdivision of 72 houses with 3 similar floor plans, our neighbors began asking us to do windows for their homes. Our house was like a showroom for them. When it came time to sell our house, we sold every window we had made to either the buyer or neighbors. I also made small gift items to sell at holiday craft shows which did quite well. Since moving to Chico, CA, we have almost completed the new studio in the garage. I'm waiting for the weather to warm a bit, then I will get started again. How bungi.com has helped me: Gave me inspiration to learn design (still scary and frustrating), answered technical questions, gave advice about setting up a studio, gave advice about going into business, informed me of glass shows and exhibitions, referred me to other glass related web pages, and introduced me to the most interesting and helpful group of artisans I ever hope to meet. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun May 31 23:35:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: repair work Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:18:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1998May31.191830.0> Precedence: bulk I've only done some minor repair work and hated it. Recently a friend showed me a panel (copper foil) that she had that was badly broken after being knocked out of a window. Out of mabye 30 pieces, I'd say about half were broken. From my experience, I thought it'd be easier to re-do the whole thing than to repair it. (I said, "NO WAY!" btw.) This got me thinking though, is there an easy way to completely take apart a panel? Could you soak the panel in something to make the foil easy to remove? What I've done to take something apart was with the desoldering braid, and it was quite time consuming just for one piece. I can't imagine taking a *whole* panel apart. Is there an easy way to do it? I've also enjoyed the "Arts Funding" thread. Definitely gave me some things to think about. I haven't quite finished reading because I've been out of town and have to catch up on my mail, but it's been interesting. Thanks, Jerri _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 1 00:00:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:54:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: icq members ? Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:54:24 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jun1.35424.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-05-31 12:56:10 EDT, you write: << is there anyone in the bungi list who is a member of ICQ see www.mirabilis.com for more details my icq # is 8365697 is there anyone interested in starting a webring about stained glass ? >> Hi , I don't have any pictures of my glass up yet on my site ( since I'm still a beginer at glass) but hope to put up some soon. I would be very intersyed in reading a webring about glass. Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 1 00:41:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 31 May 1998 22:03:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: Polymer Tech Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:48:12 +1000 Message-ID: <1998Jun1.224812.0> Precedence: bulk when i went shopping last friday i saw a "Tiffany" lampshade in a shop and i nearly died of shock when i saw the price tag. $AU30.00 (that's $18 US dollars) including the base. we pay that much wholesale for the base alone. So i had a closer look and it almost fooled me. it looks very much like stained glass (almost like Kokomo wispy) and it's only after tapping on the panel that i realized it is made of plastic !!! separate pieces with a black line in between. The whole seems cast on a form, the colours are inside the plastic sheet. i think that's what you would refer to as polymer technology. not like some other shades i have seen made of window glass, foiled and soldered then painted inside to look like art glass. Harlequin Leadlight Home page http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass