How is it done? Someone in Bungiland = >must=20 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 07:48:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:07:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: As a Teacher? Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:05:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr20.6554.0> References: <<1998Apr19.191231.0>> Precedence: bulk pkelly wrote: > > Toby, et al > > Ahhhh .... the exuberance of youth. As a teacher I enjoy students that > tax my patience and my brain. They seem to think that tried and true > methods are not correct. They will experience a brain cramp when the > mistakes they make cost them in some way. At this point they will think > ..... so that's what my teacher was talking about. They always think > they know a faster, smarter way of doing things and sometimes ( damn it) > they do. > > A case in point. Recently, one of my computer science students decided > that he knew a better program to do his projects. About 3/4th of the > way through (9 weeks of work) he got into some problems. He then asked > my counsel, to which I replied " I don't teach that program in this > course ". However, if you use the required program I will be happy to > answer and all questions. He is now almost caught up with the rest of > the class after about 12 days of 13 hours worth of programing each day. > " Will he be a good computer programmer?"... probably not, because he > forgot the very basics and instead opted to use the so called short-cut. > > I realize you think you have your reputation as a SG instructor at > stake, but relax. Sell them the supplies they need, give them advice and > love. Cherish your time with them, it is coming to a close. > > Remember: > > In those days he was wiser than he is now - he used frequently to take > my advise. > - Winston > Churchill > > Patrick > Roses and Rainbows there's also a real good side to having a naturally advanced student, you could take pictures of their work, and show them to other students, saying your the one who taught them that.... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 09:56:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:51:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts From: Melanie Dunstan To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting Wine Bottles Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:21:42 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Apr21.72142.0> Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services Precedence: bulk Gidday Y'all - I often get requests for a wine bottle cutter here in Oz - the only one I've ever seen, both in the flesh and advertised - was in UK! I saw it at Woburn craft fair I believe (April and October) and I've seen it advertised in (I think) the craftsman magazine also in Popular Crafts - or a similar type of magazine. It's usually a black and white ad, single column but long-ish say up to half a page, the pic is actually a line drawing. Sorry I can't remember more - going back five years now. Hope you find one! -- Catcha Melanie Dunstan, in Perth, Australia Allcrafts for Unusual Crafts http://www.ozemail.com.au/~allcraft Psst! Ask about joining CraftsPages perpetual Craft Fair! Pass It On! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 10:19:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:39:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ....As a Teacher....? Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:38:17 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr20.163817.0> Precedence: bulk I guess I am a little puzzled by all this are you a teacher of stained glass or running an apprenticeship? I don't mean to be strong on this point but they want to learn and get as much from you in a short amount of time. ie they are trying to move forward rapidly and you don't want them to, yes they have not yet perfected their talents but they have time and years to do that. They sound refreshing to me, not afraid to jump in and try, so what if it doesn't work out right they are not concerned why should you be. I can't believe that you would think of not selling them supplies just to keep them from moving on. They can go elsewhere to buy if you refuse to sell to them. And think of it this way I'm sure you have had a few students over the years that NEVER mastered the art but can still say you were their teacher what is the difference in that. And after 16 weeks and you still have not showed them how to solder?? I guess cause I was self taught mostly and had to learn from my mistakes and a lot of mistakes of others by asking questions I don't see why you should be so concerned. Again they are not apprentices they are students, let them grow at their own pace and maybe you couldn't work with someone on a panel but others can, I understand many of the old works have been done by quite a few people (someone on bungi explained that about a churches panels in mexico each doing a part that they were good at) Another thought just look at the celtic panel they drew, the way you explain it it is very good so maybe they are able to learn more rapidly than you are allowing them to. Ok I'm done just my point of view deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 11:21:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Cutting Wine Bottles Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:39:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr20.93936.0> Precedence: bulk =09 I paid $30 for a bottle cutter from Distlefink. It was a piece of = plastic trash. The plastic is not sturdy enough to push against to score = the glass. You need 4 hands to operate it and all of the tightening = screws were plastic and broke off. Distlefink no longer makes them.=20 I have not seen the one made by Armour so I cannot comment. It can be = found via a search of the web. My solution has been to make my own jig. Just a tow sided wooden affair = that cradles the bottle laying on it's side. That way I can rotate the = bottle while holding my Fletcher cutter against the side to get a good = score. The trick I have found in getting a decent break at the score is = to not be too anxious and tap gently from the inside of the bottle until = the score is pretty much cracked before I twist the two halves apart.=20 Caution is advised.=20 LInda Campbell ---------- From: Melanie Dunstan[SMTP:allcrafts@p085.aone.net.au] Sent: Monday, April 20, 1998 11:21 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting Wine Bottles Gidday Y'all - I often get requests for a wine bottle cutter here in Oz - the only one I've ever seen, both in the flesh and advertised - was in UK! I saw it at Woburn craft fair I believe (April and October) and I've seen it advertised in (I think) the craftsman magazine also in Popular Crafts - or a similar type of magazine. It's usually a black and white ad, single column but long-ish say up to half a page, the pic is actually a line drawing. Sorry I can't remember more - going back five years now. Hope you find one! -- Catcha Melanie Dunstan, in Perth, Australia Allcrafts for Unusual Crafts http://www.ozemail.com.au/~allcraft Psst! Ask about joining CraftsPages perpetual Craft Fair! Pass It On! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 11:55:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Margaret41 From: Margaret41 To: WhispyBlu@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: saddle bronco Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:35:50 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr20.173550.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-04-18 00:32:30 EDT, WhispyBlu@aol.com writes: << through Patterns Your Way. 11-105 Saddle Bronco - Paula Zan, Mythling Studio, Hyndman, PA 25-661 Rodeo Cowboy - Aurora Publications, Cal Studio, San Jose, CA Lu Ann >> Hi - is Patterns Your Way a service?....a book?....on-line....? Can someone clarify. Thanks. Margaret ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 14:32:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:46:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: csgpppproxy2.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: as a teacher... let them know Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:47:37 -0400 Message-ID: <199804202047.QAA01339@csgpppproxy2.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Hi Elisabeth, Don't be cruel with them. And don't let me think that you're more worried about your reputation than about helping people learn. Teachers suppose to be guides. Even if they make mistakes --and they know they can make them, and they'll very likely make them-- the experience will be worthwhile for them. Remember Gauss? He has been arguably the smartest mathematician in our World. When he was asked to count from 1 to 100 --at age 5-- he did not do it in the classical way: we develop and equation that took him seconds to do the calculation. Imagine a teacher that would have said: "no, no no... it's wrong, go back and count one by one...". Might he be frustrated and his skills perished? Who knows. I am not saying that your students are the next Tiffanys. Some people are gifted, others are just overachievers, others tend to bend the rules. They buy their own material, they put their own time; don't hold them back, you have no right to do it --IMHO. If you think they can make mistakes, be their guide, offer information, suggest books. Not everybody has to move at the same pace, or at the one you think it is the best. And with regard to Patrick's comment, I know people that they can do it: they can learn a new language and at the same time go through difficult computer science courses _without_ any help from the instructor. Those are the great minds that are and will be in the frontline of the armies of programmers of today's great software companies. Of course, all these is IMHO. dmg -- Daniel M. German "I see no good reason why the views given in this volume should shock the religious Charles Darwin -> feelings of anyone." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 14:59:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:20:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tillamook.k12.or.us!SteveM From: "Steve Matthies" To: glass@bungi.com, aareg@globalnet.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting wine bottles Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:14:53 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk The last delphi sales flyer I recieved a week or so ago had a bottle = cutter in it, one of their new items..somewhere around $20.00 wholesale = and if I remember correctly after scoring, the directions were to heat the = score then ice it. It' the first one Ive seen commercially maybe it is on = their web site. >>> "Tony Regan" 04/19 12:56 PM >>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=3D_NextPart_000_0004_01BD6BD5.9A3F7CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good Day to all from the UK Its a bizarre thought that you are all having beakfast while we watch =3D the sun go over the yardarm, but the after effects of that, namely empty = =3D wine bottles, some of which are worth preserving as objects, I find =3D exceedingly difficult to cut. I am trying to cut off the tops, especially some nice blue Rhine =3D bottles, but with little sucess. How is it done? Someone in Bungiland must know!! Regards Tony & Barbara Regan "Glass Act" Cornwall UK ------=3D_NextPart_000_0004_01BD6BD5.9A3F7CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good Day to all from the =3D UK

Its a bizarre thought that you are = =3D all having=3D20 beakfast while we watch the sun go over the yardarm, but the after =3D effects of=3D20 that, namely empty wine bottles, some of which are worth preserving as =3D objects,=3D20 I find exceedingly difficult to cut.

I am trying to cut off the tops, = =3D especially some=3D20 nice blue Rhine bottles, but with little sucess.

How is it done? Someone in = Bungiland =3D must=3D20 know!!

Regards

Tony & Barbara =3D Regan

"Glass Act" Cornwall=3D20= UK

------=3D_NextPart_000_0004_01BD6BD5.9A3F7CE0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com=20 To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com=20 Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 16:28:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:11:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: cutting wine bottles Date: Mon, 20 Apr 98 15:09:40 -0700 Message-ID: References: <> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > The last delphi sales flyer I recieved a week or so ago had a bottle = > cutter in it, one of their new items..somewhere around $20.00 wholesale = > and if I remember correctly after scoring, the directions were to heat the = > score then ice it. It' the first one Ive seen commercially maybe it is on = > their web site. word on rec.crafts.glass this doesn't work very well. 2 ways that i know of to do this easily. they both work on the same principle: a) fill with cold water. tie a string around it at the place you want it to break. soak string with lighter fluid. light. stand back. b) fill with cold water. wrap bottle with nichrome wire. hook up to a dc power generator. stand back quickly. disclaimer: do this at your own risk, under supervision of adults, yada yada yada... --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 16:58:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:43:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: teaching Date: Mon, 20 Apr 98 15:14:33 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<199804202047.QAA01339@csgpppproxy2.uwaterloo.ca>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk i liken your problem to raising kids. sometimes you have to let them do it the hard way for them to learn what they can and cannot do, protecting them from actual harm along the way. sometimes they surprise us, sometimes they fail and sometimes they shine. one often learns more from failures than successes. charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 18:04:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:15:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: tinning Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:11:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr20.161139.0> References: <<1998Apr18.7115.0>> Precedence: bulk fibers wrote: > T > It is nice to know that others have the same "bad glass day" as I. When > all else fails, I just quit and go dream over my new issue of Warner > Crivellaro color catalogue. > Thanks agsain, > Nelda Actually, I was having one of those days last night, and have the nicks on my fingers to prove it. I had one piece left to cut on a pretty fan lamp and some of the glass was difficult. Five tries to get that one piece...and did it with a few inches of glass to spare. I did leave it for a couple of hours, but I wanted to get it foiled while watching X-Files. just got a new table saw and have lots of ideas...of course, there's lots of learning to do, but my husband is a contractor's son.... Dorothy K ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 18:31:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:25:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Toby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ....As a Teacher....? Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:40:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr20.154043.0> References: <<199804200104.CAA22211@pluto.nildram.co.uk>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Elisabeth, Wow-just do the best you can, a lot of us are self-taught, and learn by just getting the stuff and 'doing' after a few mistakes, a video or couple of books, usually work it out. In the very brief SG course I took, 10 weeks, once a week, I missed two classes, I did two panels (copper foil) and 2- 3D glass boxes while everyone else was laboring away still trying to cut glass. I am about to 'go get a hot head torch' and teach my self 'hot glass' lampworking this summer. So not all are suited to the 'usual' way off learning. BTW, glass cutting was never my problem, but I don't do double s-curves by hand either. This couple will (I predict, IMHO) surprise you very much, if they stick with 'glass' . I basically taught myself jewelry work too, and casting gold and silver, so torch working is not that foreign to me. Used to use oxyacetylene and a centrifugal caster. Not hard if you are careful, and observe the basic safety precautions. Good luck and don't let the crocodile out. :-) Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Toby wrote: > > Hi Bunginians, > > May I address the Teachers amongst you.... > > I would like to introduce Louise and Ian to you. > A young couple in their mid-twenties. Bright-eyed and bushy tailed. > They are overe here in UK on secondment from their employers in > Australia. > In the last 3 years they have "done" the UK north to south. In > November this year they intend to return to Australia to get married > (to each other), and to make a life for themselves in Australia. > Both of them very "earthy", Ian is a capenter by training; Lousie is > a multi-faceted talent. The feeling I get is that they will then kiss > their current employers good-bye and go out there to "their own > thing" They have DISCOVERED stained glass. > They are total beginners and I am their FIRST teacher. They have > opted in a most curious - yet imaginative way - to work as a team.. > > Their enthusiasm, get-up-and-go attitude caught me right from the > start. Between them they drew, designed and developed a quite > complicated Celtic circular design as their very first "learning > panel". The ONE panel to be done by BOTH of them. Against my better > judgement, I agreed. > I would never (and HAVE never) agreed to an intricate Celtic design > for a complete beginner before. Crazy!! > The course is 16 weeks. I told them from the start that they would > not be able to complete the design in that time. They accepted that > and are now signed up to join another course I run elsewhere. > Over the Easter holiday they have beavered away at working on THEIR > panel and they have already been knocking on my door twice to ask for > more lead.. > This week I have asked them to come to me WITH their panel for me to > look at and check out as a condition of me giving them more lead. (Am > I being autocratic??? Bolshie??) .I told them I would spend 2-3 hours > with their panel, to check it out, to guide them, before next start > of term.... > > They have not yet even learnt how to solder. Yet, they are hassling > me for learning how to to do larger projects that need re-inforcement > and rebars and other structural considerations.. I feel awful in > having to rein them in, trying to persuade them "how about learning > how to walk, before you learn how to run"...... The enthusiasm is > TOTAL. But in a way, they are searching for a "quick-fix" way of > spending 5 minutes in absorbing a 5-second "How-To" idiot-proof > instructions; assimilate 1000's of years knowledge into a > cram-session of a few minutes. > There is no way I can send them back to Australia as MYstudents , > with MY name attached to their initial learning process. > Yet I don't want to hold them back...... > > I received an e-mail from them tonight. > As a work to take back to Australia with them (in addition to the > Celtic panel) they have designed a 3m long crocodile ( how WIDE, they > didn't say....). Could they bring the design to me for me to > "peruse".....?? > GULP.... at That size... I think IT might be quite keen to peruse > ME.... !! > Assuming this Beast is in parts perhaps at LEAST 18 inches > wide. we are talking about 12 sq.ft. as a SECOND ever leaded > panel.... > I LOVE enthusiasm...., but am I humouring enthusiasm just that bit > too far???? > Ultimately, I will need to hand these two souls over to stained glass > teachers in Australia..... > What WILL they think of me....? > I have been trying to a considerable extent to teach these two > live-wires that it would benefit them in the long run to know how to > walk, before they start attempting to run.... > Any "tactful" suggestions??? > (I have already advise Ian & Louise about the practicalities of > manhandline a 3 m long stained glass leaded Croc to and from > Class...... They don't seem to care. > I have also asked them about cost of shipping, containers, > likelyhood of breakage and so on... and so on. They seem > undeterred........ (Employer pays freight... after all...) > > Aussies in Queensland and/or N.S.W.???? H.E.L.P. ! ! ! > > Elisabeth > (about to go to bed dreaming about Crocs with sharp > shiny teeth.... 3 meter long....) > NO Toby, he's absconded into a safe corner..... > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 18:57:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:44:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: ...As a Teacher... Conclusion Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:32:41 +0000 Message-ID: <199804210032.BAA31132@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Thanks Everybody, It's been a very interesting sound-board (... and there may perhaps be more reactions to arrive...) On the whole, EliZabeth in Bournemouth appears to know what I am doing and where I "am at". I run very "structured" courses, with a specific end-goal at the end. There IS the opportunity for further progression in subsequent "Improvers" and "Advanced" courses. As I remember having already said in Bungi Group before, I have been teaching for 10 years + and have trained up fully blown professionals, as well as sent 3 people to gain university qualifications. Universities in UK frequently ask for my opinions about an applicant. For my students who so wish, they can apply to acquire a nationally recognized qualification, for which they have to satisfy certain criteria. developments and progression, which all have to be assessed, graded and judged. I do therefore have a reputation as a teacher beyond the boundaries of the County where I live...... My "Beginners course" is of 16 duration, at the end of which the student will have produced a leaded panel ( more likely than not of a prescribed design) of approx. 12 x 12 inches.. The second panel I will require them to make a far greater input from themselves as regards design and the panel can be somewhat larger (up to about 18 x 18 inches - roughly) The third panel must be wholly their own design and will then incorporate a "make-to-fit" element. After which they (as a rule) are ready to want to attempt 3-objects, lamps, clocks, copper-foil. I am well aware that in USA the tendency is to start with copper-foil FIRST. It is the reverse in UK. People's taste and inclinations in UK are a little bit more "robust" than perhaps in USA. This is setting the scene... EliZabeth in Bournemouth (also involved in teaching) knows the "scene" and hence comments very valuable . The comments right across the board from teacher, to learner to anyone who has an opinion has been very interesting Thank you all for the input. It's not the first time I have given a relatively long "noose" to a student. I always explain both verbally and in the written course curriculum extactly what the end-goal is to be. But you always have people who push against boundaries and against their own limitations as well. So it's not a question of dampening someone's enthusiasm, but knowing where to rein them in for the sake of them achieveing a result. Daniel; I do hope you don't really think I am "cruel". I have invited these 2 students to come to my home with their panel, off-term, free of charge in MY time, to give of MY time several hours of help, guidance and possible correction to keep their project alive and feasible. They have already come to me twice already and I have already dedicated several hours of my own, away from my own work to help them. The materials my students use are to a considerable extent subsidized by myself; and only when they get to making their 3rd panel do they pay for all their materials themselves (often a rude awakening in UK...). Deb,.... you are quite right; these 2 students have not yet learnt soldering. The reason for that is that they have got embroiled in cutting several hundred peices of glass for a knotted Celtic circular design measuring approx. 2. feet in diameter - as total beginners. Some of the curves are really quite hairy. The tools they choose to work with are less than ideal... despite my offer of getting them at least a grozier plier, they chose to work with a rather strange selection of "implements". Whereas the other 20 students or so in the same class have taken my guide-lines and are well on line in starting to solder their own beginner's panels of approx. 12 x 12 inches. Much more simple in design - yes sure, but structured to be "achievable" in the time-limitation of the Beginner's Course. Ian and Louise have rather a lot of intricate leading to complete before they can even think to start soldering. All of it has to be mitred; the design calls for 3 different thickness of lead (not something I would normally introduce a beginner to...). You see Deb, as a teacher, you tread a fine line very often. A few years ago I had a lady on my beginners course, who already "knew it all". SAhe had x number of arts degrees and there was nothing anyone could teach her about ART - never mind CRAFTS. She rejected all my recommendations, suggestions, guide-lines of a First Panel. She had made her mind up to create and produce a medevial jestor's design for her son's front door. She created crate-fuls of scrap glass, demanded special treatment, special glass galore. All ended up in the trashcan. She choose to cut her lead with a pair of kitchen scissors, rejecting my offer of lending her more suitable tools. She arrived with a 500W soldering iron inherited from her grand-father (she was in her 60's herself..), which had seen better days, was rusted up. She rejected my offer of helping her out with a more managagable iron. In the end, towards the end of the course, all the other students became involved in the race of trying to plug up the holes in her panel, rescuing her glass, minimizing the ever-growing crates of her abandoned broken glass. She protested loudly that her panel certainly did not contain that amount of material to warrant the flat fee for materials I charged her - and everybody else. She left my course with comments that are unprintable. You know as well as I do, that "muck sticks". But she left a bitter taste both for me and for the other students. She was an extreme... yes I know..... But there can be degrees of the same syndrome. ...And I was addressing myself to the Teachers amongst us. I am very well aware what a Learner wants.... I am still a Learner myself.... even after 25 years.... As I said before, one treads a fine line.... Deb...I think you missed the point somewhere. I hope you don't mind me saying that. My own very first panel has miraculously survived after all these years. I bring it to my Beginners to show them. I don't foist my own work on them that I do today. I show them where I myself came from. Mike Savad has a good point, that I have already followed up. My own portfolio contains a special section - photographs of the work of my own students. I have pages and pages of photographs of my students' work. That is something I would prefer to show my Beginners initially. I also invite my "Imps" ( = Improvers) and "ADS" (Advanced Students) to drop in during the Beginners Course to show their work Both my "imps" and "Ads" really enjoy this and they always come. It gives the Beginners a chance to have a quiet "natter" about The Old Ratbag" (=ME) and my Imps and Ads feel valued and flattered by the Ohhs and Ahhs of their work. 2-3-4 times a year we all join forces and have a slap-up meal and a good "booze-up". Dani... yeh... I know what you say about married couples working on the same piece... I am stuck with it now.. They are - luckily - very good-natured kids - sooo - I just make sure that neither of them monopolizes any one particular aspect. They BOTH do their share... MY F I R S T stained glass teacher? Unfortunately - I D O remember, with a vengance!! MY first teacher is the very reason I make absolutely sure I do not practice the same techniques!!!! MELANIE in "Aussie-Land" Hey there!! G'day!!! You just posted something about something totally different! A: Hope you haven't forgotten about my "hard-copy".... B: How about helping me out with some rather enthusiastic, live-wire Australian kids coming YOUR way in 6 months time!! I am looking for a tender, loving teacher onto whom I can pass 2 Australian "chickens" that I am currently teaching. They have ambitions miles beyond their knowledge and experience. They have not even yet completed their first Learner's panel.... they want to design and create a 3 meter long crocodile as a leaded panel for their house in Australia...... They have got numerous other projects too..... I would so much like to be able to pass them on into "good hands".... It was very helpful and useful to bounce this around. My conclusion is that I am probably too soft within the perimeter & restrictions of a quite structured scenario. I allow my own empathy and emotions responding to enthusiasm too much room...... Spercial thanks to EliZabeth & Sam in Bournemouth... Thank you all. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 19:06:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:18:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Charles Spitzer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: teaching ps Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:13:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr20.171319.0> References: <> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk PS, One the teaching thing-just reminded of "Robert Oddy's" work, that we all oaaahhhed and wowed about a while back. His bio on his web site says he is essentially self taught. Lee Boe ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 19:41:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:40:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Charles Spitzer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: cutting wine bottles Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:34:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr20.173434.0> References: <> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Thanks Charles, Just the simple instructions I was also looking for-bless you , Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Charles Spitzer wrote: > > 2 ways that i know of to do this easily. they both work on the same principle: > > a) fill with cold water. tie a string around it at the place you want it to > break. soak string with lighter fluid. light. stand back. > > b) fill with cold water. wrap bottle with nichrome wire. hook up to a dc > power generator. stand back quickly. > > disclaimer: do this at your own risk, under supervision of adults, yada yada yada... > > --- > Charles Spitzer > charlie@az.stratus.com > Phoenix, AZ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 20 21:19:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: bottle cutting Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:37:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr20.103759.0> Precedence: bulk I have another method when I have the need or urge to play with bottles. I have a 6" diamond trim saw (primarily for destroying rocks that were millions of years in the making ) that is good for a circumference score. I can either hand hold the bottle or set up a jig and gently apply the bottle to the diamond saw blade as they both turn. Works fine..........and usually leaves a frosty and non-sharp edge on the bottle parts. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 08:54:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:05:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting wine bottles Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:54:55 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr21.145455.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-04-20 22:42:36 EDT, you write: > Just the simple instructions I was also looking for-bless you , sorry but I had to laugh and then comment here, BLOWING UP BOTTLES IS THE SIMPLE WAY??? Ok I guess it works but I think the part about standing back made it a little scary. 'deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 10:53:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:10:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: DMR74 Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: cutting wine bottles Date: Tue, 21 Apr 98 09:11:02 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1998Apr21.145455.0>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > sorry but I had to laugh and then comment here, BLOWING UP BOTTLES IS THE > SIMPLE WAY??? Ok I guess it works but I think the part about standing back > made it a little scary. they don't blow up. these techniques work on the heat differential and just crack off. however, they could give off some chips, thus the comments on standing back. you don't want to be holding something that's going to crack on it's own without any warning. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 13:38:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:01:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: globalnet.co.uk!aareg From: "Tony Regan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: cutting bottles Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:22:41 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Apr21.212241.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks to all for your responses I must apologise for sending in html. I had just reloaded win95 after yet another crash and forgot to click on plain text Regards Tony "Glass Act" Cornwall UK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 14:39:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:05:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Saw Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:02:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr21.13236.0> References: <<353CE720.8D54A152@wcnet.net>> Precedence: bulk Actually, we got a wood saw...do got with the router and drill press and.... It's for household things, like bookcases, putting in a new closet, etc., but we also want to create our own fan lamp bases, we're building our own stepping stone molds, learn some framing, etc.. Am I going to be busy, you bet. in fact, have to go solder that dratted fan lamp now. (I did get it foiled during X-Files). Dorothy fibers wrote: > Dorothy, > I've been considering a saw for glass also. What brand do you have? > Nelda > > Family Account wrote: > > > > > > just got a new table saw and have lots of ideas...of course, there's lots > > of learning to do, but my husband is a contractor's son.... > > > > Dorothy K > > > > ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 15:05:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:44:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover From: "Laurean E. Clover" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: perfectionism Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:42:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr21.94242.0> Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool Precedence: bulk I am wondering where one draws the line on your work being too perfect. I know this sounds like a dumb question, but it seems this window I am working on is taking an extraordinary amount of time because I am being nitpicky, It's really driving me insane! This window isn't a comission, just something in my spare time. Laurean p.s, Hi Debbie, looks like today I have had time to work on my glass! :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 17:07:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:45:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:43:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr21.154348.0> References: <<1998Apr21.94242.0>> Precedence: bulk Laurean E. Clover wrote: > > I am wondering where one draws the line on your work being too > perfect. I know this sounds like a dumb question, but it seems > this window I am working on is taking an extraordinary amount of > time because I am being nitpicky, It's really driving me insane! > This window isn't a comission, just something in my spare time. > > Laurean > > p.s, > > Hi Debbie, looks like today I have had time to work on my glass! :-) > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass you should see what i'm going through with the sky city project. basically the top looks like an ancient building (that could be a high tech/modern city). and i find myself, "inside" the lamp, as if i was a sky city person. worrying about scale, the size of the bricks, windows, ballasters, etc. making sure that it's architecturly possible (if it were real). i'm trying to go for a complex, real detail look. i've been working on it a little each night about 1-1/2 hours. currently i have about 30-40 hours into it, and the shade design is only about half done. i still have to design the base. i hav'nt figured out how many pieces it will be yet, but i think i'm over 1000 now, the grand total will probably be around 2000 - 2500 maybe a little more. it's just difficult on the brain to visualize the entire project in your head. along with building it in your head, needing to figure out the molds needed. i still have'nt totally figured out all the colors yet... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 18:43:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:07:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover From: "Laurean E. Clover" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:05:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr21.13524.0> References: <<1998Apr21.154348.0>> Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool Precedence: bulk Wow Mike, I am no where near the 2500 pc. mark. This one is about 100. So is this lampshade something your going to sell or keep? Laurean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 19:45:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:07:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: "Laurean E. Clover" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:00:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr21.18012.0> References: <<1998Apr21.13524.0>> Precedence: bulk Laurean E. Clover wrote: > > Wow Mike, > I am no where near the 2500 pc. mark. This one is about > 100. So is this lampshade something your going to sell or keep? > > Laurean > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass this is a keep, unless of course someone wants to buy it. in which i would sell it, and replace it with another new lamp. the one thing i know for certain, it's going to weigh a ton... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 20:16:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:40:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Laurean E. Clover" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Tue, 21 Apr 98 22:18:02 -0400 Message-ID: <199804220216.WAA09627@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk >I am wondering where one draws the line on your work being too >perfect. I know this sounds like a dumb question, but it seems >this window I am working on is taking an extraordinary amount of >time because I am being nitpicky, It's really driving me insane! >This window isn't a comission, just something in my spare time. > >Laurean Greetings Laurean, I feel that there's nothing perfect about stained glass, and that's the way it should be. A good part of the beauty of the glass itself, is that it's not perfect. In fact I go out of my way to use parts of glass that aren't "perfect." As far as the craftsmanship part goes, I always give that my best shot. If the work is for sale, I would not let it go with a broken piece or a badly-soldered seam. Sometimes when a piece is finished, I'm not happy with a certain glass selection; that's part of the learning process and I'll file that away for the future. Another valuable thing to consider is that what you may not like, somebody out there somewhere, will! If you don't take risks, then you'll never know what works and what doesn't. Bottom line: If the piece is for yourself, fix what you know will drive you crazy; but don't drive yourself crazy trying to be "perfect." My two cents worth! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 21:23:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:44:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Glass Lovers Weekend Pt1 (long) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:40:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr21.194019.0> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk I was going to post his Sunday night, but got back from PA after 1 in the morning. I was surprised none of our fellow travelers posted since, so here goes - Arrived in Allentown Friday night, stayed at the the airport Sheraton, since it's down the block from W/C. Unfortunately, The friend I brought didn't get much sleep, as the housekeeping crew was setting up for a wedding the next day. (no fault of W/C, I booked this myself). But it pays to b*tch, cuz my vocal friend complained, and didn't get charged for the room. Anyway, we got up at 4:00 am to make a 5:00 am bus. As I'm walking to the front desk, I'm thinking 'Jeez, I must be the only idiot that would get up this early to go look at glass'. As I turned the corner, I see a line of people checking out - Ah, company! Well it seems that the 'computer was doing an audit', and they couldn't give us a receipt to check us out. Well, that sure changes my opinion of the Sheraton chain. So we pull into the parking lot, load up the luggage, and climb aboard. while waiting to leave, I was joking around about 'Hey charles, what about our coffee and bacon and eggs?' It's hard to find breakfast at 4:30 am in an industrial park in Allentown. So our designated den mother Marianne chimes up 'We have breakfast', and proceeds to dole out juice, muffins and cake for all and any. We take off heading west, and I find out that our own Maureen (mosfunland) is sitting behind us. so we have someone else to talk ears off besides the one people I brought along. Many caught up on sleep missed by getting up before dawn Half way to Yough, we get a rest stop. BTW, we had two busloads. The factory can't handle 100+ visitors, so one bus went to the Yough train station store, and we went to see the glass guys. The building is not impressive, and looks like it might not last till next winter, but the glass the make is still amazing. They took people into the 'hot' room about 10 at a time. There are about 7 ovens/kilns in the room, with 3 -5 going at any one time. Gets to be above 120 deg F in the summer. So in the middle of the room is this strange machine, with all kinds of wires and hoses attached. There is a platform where a number of people empty large ladles of molten glass (the number depending on how many colors are to be in a sheet. They dip the ladles into the oven, removing a load of glass. The ladles are of different sizes, depending what color is the 'base, and what color is the 'accent'. So these guys arrive at the same time, dumping their load together on this platform. The 'main mixer' then swirls the glass around with a steel bar, making the swirls in the glass. He can tell what he's doing, but it looked like a big pile of orange glowing stuff to me. Then the pile of glass, which looks like REALLY HOT taffy, is slid off the platform, into two rotating rollers, kind of looks like a mangle on it's side (to those of you old enuff to know what a mangle is). Below this, where the glass comes out, is a traveling table, which receives the sheet of glass. The table and the rollers are trimmed to move in sync, so the glass just lays flat, after being rolled. Then another guy pushed the sheet into an annealing oven, where the glass is cooled over a period of 25 minutes. It is then trimmed, and prepared to ship. We the went to the mixing room where the magic alchemy takes place. Lots of nasty toxic stuff goes into the making of the stuff we love to work with. Al around the entrance, are 55 gallon drums of scrap glass, which is sold to a recycler. he were some useful pieces, and some of the more creative of us scrounged all we could carry. There were also drums of rock sized chunks of glass left over from a color run. When they are done making a run, the ovens are shut off, allowed to cool. This leaves a solid mass of glass in the bottom of the kiln. They then break it up, and this leaves a pile of chunks. I got about a dozen interesting paper weights out of that. We then bussed off to the train station, which is Yough's retail outlet. Housed in a 'National Register of Historic Places' restored train station. Before shopping, we had this great BBQ, put out by the people at Yough. Chicken, burgers, sausage, salads, cake cookies, even BEER and WINE. Music to keep us entertained. Great folks - we were made to feel REALLY welcome. Yough had an unbelievable sale, prices on full sheets, you wouldn't believe. There is a glass blowing area, with craftsmen showing off their skills. They even had the blown glass stuff on sale. Well, it's getting late, so I'll do part two tomorrow, where we will detail the creative navigating by our driver Ray, Terry's tribulations of getting from Seattle (long distance award) to Allentown, and the fabulous facilities at Nemacolin -- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?' "Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 22:24:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:49:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:44:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr21.204412.0> References: <<199804220216.WAA09627@uz.comcat.com>> Precedence: bulk Two points I thought I'd add, First one most of you know already, and that is that if you get the glass too tight, solder can't flow between the pieces resulting in a weak panel. (Assuming we're talking foil here.) Second..........(Illustrated in a story)..............I was working on some windows for the chapel in a local convent. A priest and his minister friend were visiting the studio to choose the colors for the windows. Virtually everything here is our own work, but they became fixed on looking at a lamp done by a former employer of mine. About 25 years ago someone had dropped this large (about 30" diameter) cone shaped lamp on the floor at the place where I was working at the time. The boss had made this one himself as a prototype. The damage was extensive and he said I could take it home if I wanted it. I carried this broken lamp with me as we moved from home to home, and finally fixed it about 6 years ago. I have always rushed to point out that it is not our work when I see someone looking at it. I feel embarrassed by the wide spaces between the pieces, break lines where I wouldn't put them, and poor color choices. So as usual I pointed out that it was not our work and began appologising for the poor quality. To my surprise, they both agreed that these flaws were the charm of the lamp. Something they referred to as "the hand of man". Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Tue, 21 Apr 98 22:18:02 -0400 "suzy@comcat.com" writes: >>I am wondering where one draws the line on your work being too >>perfect. I know this sounds like a dumb question, but it seems >>this window I am working on is taking an extraordinary amount of >>time because I am being nitpicky, It's really driving me insane! >>This window isn't a comission, just something in my spare time. >> >>Laurean > >Greetings Laurean, > >I feel that there's nothing perfect about stained glass, and that's >the >way it should be. A good part of the beauty of the glass itself, is >that >it's not perfect. In fact I go out of my way to use parts of glass >that >aren't "perfect." > >As far as the craftsmanship part goes, I always give that my best >shot. >If the work is for sale, I would not let it go with a broken piece or >a >badly-soldered seam. > >Sometimes when a piece is finished, I'm not happy with a certain glass > >selection; that's part of the learning process and I'll file that away > >for the future. Another valuable thing to consider is that what you >may >not like, somebody out there somewhere, will! If you don't take risks, > >then you'll never know what works and what doesn't. > >Bottom line: If the piece is for yourself, fix what you know will >drive >you crazy; but don't drive yourself crazy trying to be "perfect." My >two >cents worth! > >Suzanne _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 21 22:55:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:08:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland To: shyguy@vdot.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass Lovers Weekend/mos version..... Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:03:20 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr22.5320.0> Precedence: bulk Well, here goes my version........lol....I picked up my girlfriend and we drove up the turnpike and stayed at the Fairfield which adjoins Applebys by a parkinglot....good to know when you plan to drink and walk...... It was a fairly nice place with clean new soap, as opposed to the Sheratons repacked "2nd". The Warners packed a breakfast of juices, snacks, applecake, tiny little cakes...napkins, wipes.....more snacks....and their ever present hospitality. We had a long road ahead of us, and the woman behind me talked the entire 4.5 hour drive......sheesh..... The guy ahead of me....(yes you carl) was great fun and they were a welcome relief from the jabbering behind me....lol.... Youghighenny was an interesting place, I think a strong wind might take it away, I guess I pictured "catwalks" and danger signs and OSHA regs posted everywhere.....but boy is their glass beautiful! The guys working there were pleasant and answered numerous questions and worked right through our "interruptions". The Trainstation was beautifully restored and the staff was overwhelmed by the number of people that descended upon it.....They did a fantastic job! The folks had a barbecue set up for us and it was great fun also! Hospitality and smiles were everywhere (not on my face during my wait in line.....just a frown).... The store had provided nice discounts on the glass, but I was afraid to transport it back on the bottom of the bus, we had enough shrapnel in the bus after our visit to the factory and store to have killed us all in a "fenderbender". I guess coming from Phila, where the biggest hills are probably in Manayunk, I was totally unprepared for the hills and valleys of western PA.....When we returned to the hotel, my friend waited in line, while I relaxed.....and surveyed the large group of fraternity members who were trooping down into a wing of the hotel....I grabbed my friend and told her..."get a room AWAY from the party"....this is probably the first time in my life I ever said anything like that to anyone!!! We were beat from getting up at 3 am, and were too busy looking out the window on the way out to sleep....we ordered dinner via roomservice, where I discovered my friend was actually a food critic in disguise....before we checked out she filled out the "customer satisfaction" survey and critiqued the portabello mushrooms' preparation and made suggestions to improve them.....I was just happy we had unused soap....... Saturday night we went up to Nemacolin resort......a huge white monolithic beacon in the country night, shining from the top of one of these mountains......but thats another story and will have to wait till tomorrow.... Tomorrow: Eight? tiffany lamps and Joe Porcelli........harrowing mountain ride and 1/2......Fallingwater. maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 01:57:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:15:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: "Laurean E. Clover" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:17:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr22.01742.0> References: <<1998Apr21.94242.0>> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk Laurean E. Clover wrote: > > I am wondering where one draws the line on your work being too > perfect. Laurean, I think "perfection", like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I'm currently worrking on a Tiffany reproduction landscape panel, 590 pieces, that most of us would probably have done in foil, but noooooooo, I had to do it in lead came. As with your project, this is not a commision, just something I wanted to do because it presents a challange. Though it is coming along just fine, I'm beginning to wonder if it will "look right" when it is completed. I think most of us are our own worst critic, and i bet what your working on now would look perfect to everyone who sees it. The important thing is that you are happy with the work when it is completed. Rick http://home.fuse.net/crafts/index.html updated 4/18/98 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 07:23:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:58:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr22.55839.0> References: <<1998Apr21.204412.0>> Precedence: bulk dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: > > Two points I thought I'd add, > > First one most of you know already, and that is that if you get the glass > too tight, solder can't flow between the pieces resulting in a weak > panel. (Assuming we're talking foil here.) > that's not totally true. the solder will get it's self in there through capillary action. like when you solder 2 copper pipes together, you can't get a hair through the joint, but solder just sucks itself in there. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 08:26:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:38:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B93BA7AB588F31CBA403548B" Subject: Re:perfectionism] Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:38:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr22.6389.0> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B93BA7AB588F31CBA403548B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having the opportunity to see, and touch real Tiiffany works at Nemacolin, I realize that there is a point of 'good enough' - some of the solder work on these treasures is far from perfect. --------------B93BA7AB588F31CBA403548B Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: shyguy@vdot.net Received: (qmail 18864 invoked from smtpd); 22 Apr 1998 09:13:01 -0000 Received: from daver.bungi.com (207.126.97.2) by linux2.vdot.net with SMTP; 22 Apr 1998 09:13:00 -0000 Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:15:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: "Laurean E. Clover" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:17:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr22.01742.0> References: <<1998Apr21.94242.0>> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk Laurean E. Clover wrote: > > I am wondering where one draws the line on your work being too > perfect. Laurean, I think "perfection", like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I'm currently worrking on a Tiffany reproduction landscape panel, 590 pieces, that most of us would probably have done in foil, but noooooooo, I had to do it in lead came. As with your project, this is not a commision, just something I wanted to do because it presents a challange. Though it is coming along just fine, I'm beginning to wonder if it will "look right" when it is completed. I think most of us are our own worst critic, and i bet what your working on now would look perfect to everyone who sees it. The important thing is that you are happy with the work when it is completed. Rick http://home.fuse.net/crafts/index.html updated 4/18/98 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --------------B93BA7AB588F31CBA403548B-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 08:57:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:39:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: youg. tour Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:37:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr22.63730.0> Precedence: bulk does anyone know if youg. gives tours to the "common people" if i were to go down there myself and get a tour. and maybe go through some of those glass bins myself? or do have to call first and make an appointment? also is there a discount on the glass they make? and do they sell it to the public? and if they do sell, how much less is it? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 13:01:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: "M. Savad" , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: youg. tour Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:35:44 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980422153542.007274fc@mail.bright.net> Precedence: bulk At 10:37 AM 4/22/98 -0400, M. Savad wrote: >does anyone know if youg. gives tours to the "common people" if i were >to go down there myself and get a tour. and maybe go through some of >those glass bins myself? > >or do have to call first and make an appointment? > >also is there a discount on the glass they make? and do they sell it to >the public? and if they do sell, how much less is it? > >---Mike Savad > >-- Yes they do give tours to common people. And it is just as they described it...a very small place really. I did call ahead so they were expecting me. And I also asked for a wholesale discount which they wouldn't give to me but the prices at the station shop were pretty good anyway. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran Bellefontaine, OH ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 13:30:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:56:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LByrne21 From: LByrne21 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass Lovers Weekend Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:55:39 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr22.195539.0> Precedence: bulk It TRULY was a Glass Lovers Weekend.....the trip sponsored by W-C... a visit to the Youghiogheny glass factory, and to "Falling Water", (a Frank Lloyd Wright designed home) and to "Nemacolin Woodlands Resort". Bungians, let me first say, I am not a paid employee of W-C. Normallly, just a lurker within this interesting group. And now ,with that being said, I can go on with the accolades. People came from all over the country for this tour...California, Seattle, the East Coast and places in between. They were from all aspects of the stained- glass industry...... novice, expert, artist, teacher, student, retailer and wholesaler. What was so striking about the trip, was that W-C arranged to share with us, their supplier of this most beautiful glass, and , great discounts were offered, direct from the manufacturer, to us, for this one day. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that, with this opportunity of buying direct from Youghiogheny, and not from W-C, some profits were being lost here. But, what W-C gained from this trip, will be returned two-fold. Their image has certainly been enlarged, again, according to our two bussloads of individuals who had a great time. John Triggs, from Youghiogheny, is a gracious man, whose company, as you all know, puts out that gorgeous "stuff". The viewing of his operation,......conducted by himself and his staff...... was totally unrehearsed, friendly, warm (no pun intended with those hot ovens bellowing), and informative. We witnessed sheets of gold being tossed into the hot furnaces, removed, and then, deftly mixed into the molten mass of glass, pressed, and annealed . What emerged were sheets of sumptuous, colored, gorgeous, glass. It was awesome! After touring the factory and exploring the restored "Train Station" (by Youghiogheny) and, buying, "to die for" glass, at, "can you believe it " prices, John Triggs arranged a great (and unexpected) barbeque for us which was enjoyed under the tent-top on the grounds of the "Train Station". (By- the-way....the "Train Station" is filled with beautiful finished pieces of glass....original tiffany lamps, windows, etc., etc.,etc.) The Nemacolin Hotel is, rightly, a five-star...not only for its gracious rooms, the many huge, magnificent, chrystal chandeliers, original paintings on the walls, the beautiful stained glass lamps and panels, but, also for its' restaurants, that several of us had an opportunity to sample....staying a little bit longer than anticipated. "Falling Water", the Frank Lloyd Wright house, is built into several layers, atop a waterful , amongst large rocks ( which were incorporated into the design of the floor, in front of a huge fireplace in the main room). The natural setting for this house is beautiful and should be enjoyed by a walk (hike) in the surrounding woodlands. The trip was not , however, without its' glitches.... (bus schedules, etc.) but some of the little inconveniences did not mar the experience, and certainly did make it more memorable. Meeting glass lovers, expressing all points of views within an industry , that is going thru so much change, was refreshing. Speaking with a studio owner, from Seattle and hearing his ideas for small glass shops in his area, was enlightening. So...pack your bag, your sense of humor, your anticipation, your sense of adventure and hurry over to sign on for any trips W-C may offer in the future. Kudos to Charles, Maryann and Chris for the time and effort they put into making this such a memorable "happening". Lavergne (the lurker) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 13:53:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:53:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Lovers Weekend/mos version..... Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:33:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr22.113339.0> References: <<1998Apr22.5320.0>> Precedence: bulk Thanks to Carl and Maureen for sharing your stories. I'm totally green with envy, and looking forward to the next installment. Jerri _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 14:02:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:30:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LByrne21 From: LByrne21 To: morn@nac.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: youg. tour Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:27:37 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr22.202737.0> Precedence: bulk Mike: I don;t know for sure about Youghiogheny giving tours to the "common" folk. But an educated guess would be that they do not. I say that because of the layout of their manufacturing facility. Individual tours would be quite disruptive, as they are not set up to accommodate that kind of viewing. They do not have a discount store located at the factory itself. The glass that was made available to us, was brought down from the factory to the "Train Station" for this particular day, and, the discount given to W-C group for the one day only, was done as a courtesy from Youghiogheny. Now, this is only my perception, filled in by little bits and comments heard throught the day. (There actually was a sign posted saying that, discounts were only for W-C tour for this one day). However, my view is not the official view, and the best way to get that, would be to go to the source and call Youghiogheny. Lavergne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 15:30:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: youg. tour Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:36:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr22.133644.0> References: <<3.0.32.19980422153542.007274fc@mail.bright.net>> Precedence: bulk glasschic wrote: > >-- > Yes they do give tours to common people. And it is just as they described > it...a very small place really. I did call ahead so they were expecting > me. And I also asked for a wholesale discount which they wouldn't give to > me but the prices at the station shop were pretty good anyway. > > Garden of Glass > Joyce Moran > Bellefontaine, OH > > ---- Well, that's good to hear. We're kind of thinking of a week + in August something like this...Start at Saratoga Springs for the races (one of my other passions), then head across NY, maybe stopping at Ithaca or Corning, down into PA to visit Youghigheny, then maybe into WV for Wissmach (?) in Paden City, then back across PA to Allentown to W-C. Obviously plans are not concrete yet and I fear there will be little room in the car for our tent come time to go home! I had originally proposed this for combining with a longer trip to Kentucky (Kentucky Horse Park) including a stop in Ohio at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So, we'll do Kentucky some other time. Lots of driving, lots of putting up the tent. Ought to be fun -- or insanity. Dorothy K from Connecticut ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 17:03:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:36:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Family Account" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: youg. tour Date: Wed, 22 Apr 98 19:31:44 -0400 Message-ID: <199804222329.TAA23945@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Dorothy wrote: >Well, that's good to hear. We're kind of thinking of a week + in August >something like this...Start at Saratoga Springs for the races (one of my >other >passions), then head across NY, maybe stopping at Ithaca or Corning, down >into >PA to visit Youghigheny, then maybe into WV for Wissmach (?) in Paden City, >then back across PA to Allentown to W-C. Dorothy, if you haven't been to Corning I highly recommend it. Was there two or three years ago and really enjoyed it! PLEASE CHECK THIS ADDRESS AGAINST YOUR FILES email should be: suzy@comcat.com Thanks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 17:35:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:52:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'LByrne21'" , "morn@nac.net" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: youg. tour Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:18:25 -0100 Message-ID: <1998Apr22.171825.0> Precedence: bulk Mike and others, I live within 45 minutes of Yough, and in the past year have been out = there 4 times and I intend to have many more visits there.. I started = to go to Yough about 6 years ago, before they opened the train station.. = And since the train station opened, I believe they have improved.. = Before their retail shop (the train station) you could go to the the = factory, which is a beautiful pole building with dirt floors, and the = best bargain was their misc. sample boxes (surprise boxes at $10 per = box, size 4 x 6 and say 5 pounds of glass- do not hold me to the = specifics, please). The last trip I did was early Dec. at the train = station .. The reg. glass was $1.50 for a hobby sheet, say 8 x 10.. The = stipple glass was $2.50 for that size.. For the last 2 tries through = Whittmore Durgin I tried to order their Neodymuim (please spelling) = blue.. This glass is light blue unlit, and with a light it become a soft = pink/gold.. The last 2 orders from Whitmore, they sent me a white like = icecle glass.. I was able to buy a whole half sheet, my choice of side = of the glass for $1.50 per the hobby sheet size .. Whittmore was at = least $6 per pound.. The last time I was there, the factory just sent = down a few crates, and I did pig out.. Irrid. whites with gold hint, . = ruby red cathedrals, blues you would not believe.. Also, I believe = they have the cheapest prices on copper wire..=20 =20 And one of the most redeeming qualities, they are opened Sunday (I = think from 12 to 4) So George and I could visit the local drive in flea = market ( for GF) and I could do my glass shopping..=20 Take care Gloria -----Original Message----- From: LByrne21 [SMTP:LByrne21@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 1998 6:28 PM To: morn@nac.net; glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: youg. tour Mike: I don;t know for sure about Youghiogheny giving tours to the "common" folk. But an educated guess would be that they do not. I say = that because of the layout of their manufacturing facility. Individual tours = would be quite disruptive, as they are not set up to accommodate that kind of viewing. They do not have a discount store located at the factory itself. The = glass that was made available to us, was brought down from the factory to the = "Train Station" for this particular day, and, the discount given to W-C group = for the one day only, was done as a courtesy from Youghiogheny. Now, this is only my perception, filled in by little bits and comments = heard throught the day. (There actually was a sign posted saying that, = discounts were only for W-C tour for this one day). However, my view is not the official view, and the best way to get that, would be to go to the = source and call Youghiogheny. Lavergne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 19:05:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!TifStyOrig From: TifStyOrig To: shyguy@vdot.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass Lovers Weekend Pt1 (long) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:19:54 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr23.11954.0> Precedence: bulk Carl, You write a wonderful story......I feel like I was there......thanks so much for sharing this...... Diane Manchester ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 22 21:10:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:29:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: morn@nac.net Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:20:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr22.192042.0> References: <<1998Apr21.204412.0>>> Precedence: bulk Mike, Sure, capillary action will draw as much solder as will fit in, assuming that the joint gets hot enough, just like sweating pipes. However, just as tinned foil is essentially no stronger that just plain foil, the tiny coating of solder that can squeak in between really tightly fitted glass is just about irrelevant. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:58:39 -0400 "M. Savad" writes: >dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: >> >> Two points I thought I'd add, >> >> First one most of you know already, and that is that if you get the >glass >> too tight, solder can't flow between the pieces resulting in a weak >> panel. (Assuming we're talking foil here.) >> > >that's not totally true. the solder will get it's self in there >through >capillary action. like when you solder 2 copper pipes together, you >can't get a hair through the joint, but solder just sucks itself in >there. > >---Mike Savad > >-- _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 07:32:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:47:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: "M. Savad" Subject: Re: youghiogeny burn off rates Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:21:27 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.92127.0> References: <<1998Apr18.123730.0@?>> Precedence: bulk In message <1998Apr18.123730.0@?>, "M. Savad" writes >i was wondering what the highest temerature i could have with >irridescent? i tried a few experiments, which came out. but a few >other's that did'nt, all the irr. burned off. and i can't figure out >why I don't know why the irridescence burns off (except that it is a microscopic layer on the top of the glass?), but I know that if you fire the glass with the irridescence down, it does not fire off at slumping temperatures. Another choice is to place a clear sheet over the irridescent glass. This seems to work too. -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 08:15:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:43:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover From: "Laurean E. Clover" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: pefectionism Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:10:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.11010.0> Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool Precedence: bulk Thanks to all of you for your insights! I have yet to get back in to work on my glass.. but I am again looking forward to it instead of dreading it. Laurean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 09:06:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:48:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:59:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.45948.0> References: <<1998Apr21.204412.0>>> Precedence: bulk dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: > > Mike, > > Sure, capillary action will draw as much solder as will fit in, assuming > that the joint gets hot enough, just like sweating pipes. However, just > as tinned foil is essentially no stronger that just plain foil, the tiny > coating of solder that can squeak in between really tightly fitted glass > is just about irrelevant. > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > > http://www.dodgestudio.com > > On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:58:39 -0400 "M. Savad" writes: > >dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: > >> > >> Two points I thought I'd add, > >> > >> First one most of you know already, and that is that if you get the > >glass > >> too tight, solder can't flow between the pieces resulting in a weak > >> panel. (Assuming we're talking foil here.) > >> > > > >that's not totally true. the solder will get it's self in there > >through > >capillary action. like when you solder 2 copper pipes together, you > >can't get a hair through the joint, but solder just sucks itself in > >there. > > > >---Mike Savad > > > >-- > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] what it really boils down to is: how strong the foil is to the glass. you can have a cubic yard of solder between joints, but the joint can still fail due to the weakness of the grip of the foil. or if the joint is strait and is allowed to flex, then it really does'nt matter how much solder is in there, nor the foil grip. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 12:27:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:42:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mfi.com!shaley From: shaley@mfi.com (Suzanne Haley) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="IMA.Boundary.8076533980" Subject: Re[2]: youghiogeny burn off rates (YOUGHIOGHENY) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:37:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.43748.0> Precedence: bulk --IMA.Boundary.8076533980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Youghiogheny has a website. http//www.stainedglassbiz.com From the menu on the left hand side choose "links" then Youghiogheny. Lisa at Yoghiogheny is great. You can email her direct with your questions at: youghart@juno.com Suggest also looking at the Spectrum Glass website. http://www.spectrumglass.com From the menu, go into "FUSING". See detail "Using Iridescent Glass". Uroboros has Spectrum-compatible Iridescent glass available that will not burn off, even at full-fuse temperatures. You can also download their firing guide. Good luck. Suzanne Haley Koi Glass Studio, California ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: youghiogeny burn off rates Author: Steve Richard at Internet Date: 4/23/1998 8:21 AM In message <1998Apr18.123730.0@?>, "M. Savad" writes >i was wondering what the highest temerature i could have with >irridescent? i tried a few experiments, which came out. but a few >other's that did'nt, all the irr. burned off. and i can't figure out >why I don't know why the irridescence burns off (except that it is a microscopic layer on the top of the glass?), but I know that if you fire the glass with the irridescence down, it does not fire off at slumping temperatures. Another choice is to place a clear sheet over the irridescent glass. This seems to work too. -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --IMA.Boundary.8076533980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="RFC822 message headers" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RFC822 message headers" Received: from alto.mfi.com ([198.71.19.38]) by sf-mail.mfi.com with SMTP (IMA Internet Exchange 3.01 Enterprise) id 00040D2D; Thu, 23 Apr 98 07:55:54 -0700 Received: from daver.bungi.com ([207.126.97.2]) by alto.mfi.com via smtpd (for sf-mail.mfi.com [198.71.17.202]) with SMTP; 23 Apr 1998 14:36:13 UT Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:47:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: "M. Savad" Subject: Re: youghiogeny burn off rates Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:21:27 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.92127.0> References: <<1998Apr18.123730.0@?>> Precedence: bulk --IMA.Boundary.8076533980-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 14:32:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:14:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Steve Richard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: youghiogeny burn off rates Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:04:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.5454.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > In message <1998Apr18.123730.0@?>, "M. Savad" writes > >i was wondering what the highest temerature i could have with > >irridescent? i tried a few experiments, which came out. but a few > >other's that did'nt, all the irr. burned off. and i can't figure out > >why > > I don't know why the irridescence burns off (except that it is a > microscopic layer on the top of the glass?), but I know that if you > fire the glass with the irridescence down, it does not fire off at > slumping temperatures. Another choice is to place a clear sheet over > the irridescent glass. This seems to work too. > > -- > Steve Richard > Verrier Art Glass Ltd > s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk this is what i'm doing, i'm slumping glass in home made molds, to make my own jewel like things. i probably should have used black bullseye irr, becuase it can stand up to the heat and not burn off at all. i've been using 1600 to 1700 temps. high enough to get the detail, i've done this about 3 time successfully, and 3 times not. i think i have enough of them for my project, but right now it's more of a mystery of why some burn off and other's dont. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 15:52:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:25:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Foil & Soldering Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:48:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.12487.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "M. Savad" >what it really boils down to is: how strong the foil is to the glass. you can have a cubic yard of solder between joints, but the joint can still fail due to the weakness of the grip of the foil. or if the joint is strait and is allowed to flex, then it really does'nt matter how much solder is in there, nor the foil grip.< So...does this imply that a wider foil, say 1/4" makes a better constructed solder channel than a 7/32" , since there is more of the foil overlapped on top of the glass? If this is true, (which I suspect it is), then the question of strength versus beauty comes into play. For, to my mind, the thinner the solder line (and the more glass showing), the better. But this may not be the best for long-term construction. So...is there any sort of advice you can give on which width of foil to use in which circumstance? For instance, with Spectrum Waterglass (a slightly thinner glass than normal), I prefer to use 3/16" or 7/32". But with highly textured glass, the 1/4" is my preferred. Is there a size to be used for lamp construction versus panel construction? Or is it more just a function of how much overlap is there on the top of the glass? Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 16:14:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:06:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Dale Tiffany, Inc. anyone? Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:54:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.13546.0> Precedence: bulk I'm repairing a little dragonfly "Tiffany" style lampshade which has a brass plate inscribed "Dale Tiffany, Inc." soldered to the inside of the lampshade. Can anyone tell me something about the Dale Tiffany, Inc. company? It's obviously a modern piece. Any info would be appreciated. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 16:20:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:11:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: perfectionism Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:17:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.21720.0> Precedence: bulk Over the years I have had more than 200 students to attempt to impart my knowledge and skills to. Some have followed my dictums to the letter, others thought they knew more than I did. A short case in point, one of my students was a retired craftsman and a VERY meticulous worker. He also suffered from EXTREME frugality....His work was as close to flawless as possible, BUT very poor choices of glass, based on PRICE alone caused people to glance quickly at it and then study and gush over much lesser quality craftsmanship that "looked good". Technical skills can be evaluated, but ART is certainly subjective. I strive to be as technically clean and accurate as I can without spending countless (I do count all my hours) hours on things that will not over-all effect the finished product. How it looks is the first criteria that will catch anyone's eye. The technical expertise will be evident to anyone who knows what they are seeing, the others who have no clue buy 3rd world product(s) on price alone. You need to do the BEST you can, and always look to improve the skills you have and use them on your next project. I am working on unit #1,044 which is my 4th hydrangea and this one will be better (IMHO) than the other ones from the color standpoint. It is getting more difficult to be SURE my next shade will be better, as I have done a few over the years that I have been very pleased with. Next shades are either a pair of 16" poppies or a pair of 18" Turban peonies. I may comment later on letting students proceed without the basic skills. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 16:44:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'M. Savad'" , "'bungians'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: youghiogeny burn off rates Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:10:38 -0100 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.171038.0> Precedence: bulk Mike, Is the yough glass fusible or able to take the reheat.. I slump some = unknown glass, foiled it and soldered it and than the fision took = place.. All the flower petals developed tiny crack lines.. So watch your = glass.. Once I read if you heated the glass, you could wrap it in = newspapeer and place it in the freezer for a few days, and see if it = cracks. Gloria -----Original Message----- From: M. Savad [SMTP:morn@nac.net] Sent: Thursday, April 23, 1998 11:05 AM To: Steve Richard Subject: Re: youghiogeny burn off rates Steve Richard wrote: >=20 > In message <1998Apr18.123730.0@?>, "M. Savad" writes > >i was wondering what the highest temerature i could have with > >irridescent? i tried a few experiments, which came out. but a few > >other's that did'nt, all the irr. burned off. and i can't figure out > >why >=20 > I don't know why the irridescence burns off (except that it is a > microscopic layer on the top of the glass?), but I know that if you > fire the glass with the irridescence down, it does not fire off at > slumping temperatures. Another choice is to place a clear sheet over > the irridescent glass. This seems to work too. >=20 > -- > Steve Richard > Verrier Art Glass Ltd > s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk this is what i'm doing, i'm slumping glass in home made molds, to make my own jewel like things. i probably should have used black bullseye irr, becuase it can stand up to the heat and not burn off at all. i've been using 1600 to 1700 temps. high enough to get the detail, i've done this about 3 time successfully, and 3 times not. i think i have enough of them for my project, but right now it's more of a mystery of why some burn off and other's dont. ---Mike Savad --=20 Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 17:17:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:50:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3FB66D26300D780237A11271" Subject: Corning Was -Re: youg. tour Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:30:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.153024.0> References: <<199804222329.TAA23945@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk --------------3FB66D26300D780237A11271 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit suzy@comcat.com wrote: > > > Dorothy, if you haven't been to Corning I highly recommend it. Was there > two or three years ago and really enjoyed it! > > PLEASE CHECK THIS ADDRESS AGAINST YOUR FILES > email should be: > suzy@comcat.com > Thanks > > Actually, we went to Corning a couple of years ago. Drove over on Saturday, went to the museum on Sunday, home on monday. The museum was fascinating (but the teenage daughter was bored out of her mind), but we didn't have time to see much of downtown. We did end up having a fascinating visit with a glass blower. However, I lived on the outskirts of Ithaca as a child (went to school in Freeville), and I kind of want to go back and see if the real gorges are as "gorgeous" (Could I resist?) as I remember from over 30 years ago. Gee, maybe there's stained glass windows in some of the old Cornell buildings... Dorothy K --------------3FB66D26300D780237A11271 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

suzy@comcat.com wrote:

Dorothy, if you haven't been to Corning I highly recommend it. Was there
two or three years ago and really enjoyed it!
PLEASE CHECK THIS ADDRESS AGAINST YOUR FILES
email should be:
suzy@comcat.com
Thanks

Actually, we went to Corning a couple of years ago. Drove over on Saturday, went to the museum on Sunday, home on monday. The museum was fascinating (but the teenage daughter was bored out of her mind), but we didn't have time to see much of downtown. We did end up having a fascinating visit with a glass blower.
However, I lived on the outskirts of Ithaca as a child (went to school in Freeville), and I kind of want to go back and see if the real gorges are as "gorgeous" (Could I resist?) as I remember from over 30 years ago. Gee, maybe there's stained glass windows in some of the old Cornell buildings...

Dorothy K --------------3FB66D26300D780237A11271-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 17:50:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:06:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "Mike Figgy" To: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany, Inc. anyone? Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:03:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.16347.0> Precedence: bulk A company that manufactures Tiffany style shades as well as solid brass sandcast bases. They manufacture off shore, but have a showroom in New Jersey and California. They have several 'quality' lines ranging from shades using machine rolled glass such as Wissmach (some even proprietary- meaning it's made just for them- usually regular opal colours but rolled with their flemish texture, something not in their normal production cycle). Their market is lighting and gift shops. We used to be a distributor of their bases only until they decided they'd rather sell them with their shades only. Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2 (Tel:416-252-6868) Canada's first and still its only officially sanctioned stained glass supplier. -----Original Message----- From: Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo To: Bungi Date: April 23, 1998 7:38 PM Subject: Dale Tiffany, Inc. anyone? >I'm repairing a little dragonfly "Tiffany" style lampshade >which has a brass plate inscribed "Dale Tiffany, Inc." >soldered to the inside of the lampshade. Can anyone >tell me something about the Dale Tiffany, Inc. company? >It's obviously a modern piece. Any info would be >appreciated. > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 18:24:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany, Inc. anyone? Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:57:46 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr24.05746.0> Precedence: bulk My boss gave me 4 catalogs from this co. She saw them at a gift market in Atlanta. I use them as a reference tool to choose colors and get ideas. They do everything, photo frames, lamps, candle holders, mosaics, boxes, almost anything you can think of. Some of the lamps have the mosaic base. Just gorgeous !!! It doesn't say if Dale is related to THE Tiffany, so I'd doubt it. It just says that all products are assembled in the USA. I wish you could see some of the pictures in this book !!! Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 19:26:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Foil & Soldering Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:49:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.17494.0> References: <<1998Apr23.12487.0>> Precedence: bulk Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > > Message text written by "M. Savad" > >what it really boils down to is: how strong the foil is to the glass. > you can have a cubic yard of solder between joints, but the joint can > still fail due to the weakness of the grip of the foil. or if the joint > is strait and is allowed to flex, then it really does'nt matter how much > solder is in there, nor the foil grip.< > > So...does this imply that a wider foil, say 1/4" makes a better > constructed solder channel than a 7/32" , since there is more > of the foil overlapped on top of the glass? If this is true, > (which I suspect it is), then the question of strength versus > beauty comes into play. For, to my mind, the thinner the > solder line (and the more glass showing), the better. But this > may not be the best for long-term construction. > > So...is there any sort of advice you can give on which width of > foil to use in which circumstance? For instance, with Spectrum > Waterglass (a slightly thinner glass than normal), I prefer to use > 3/16" or 7/32". But with highly textured glass, the 1/4" is my > preferred. Is there a size to be used for lamp construction versus > panel construction? Or is it more just a function of how much > overlap is there on the top of the glass? > > Christie A. Wood > Art Glass Ensembles, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass primarily i use 3/16". it's mainly weak if the design is weak. the foil width could make a difference in some cases (providing the foil is really stuck onto the glass well. more solder in between is actually worse because it can act as a fulcrum and help tear off the foil. for thicker glass a wider foil should be used. there should'nt be any less then a 1/16" of foil overlaping (or there abouts). ripple is a pain because flux can get into the nooks and may help the solder to get white, and unstick the foil though it's a pain i try to tuck the foil down inside the lines. you also get a neater bead doing it in this manner. though it takes 3 times longer to do that. mainly what makes a panel strong, is a strong design. there should'nt be any lines that go straight across the panel. it should be strengthened with a background piece or rebar or strongline, etc. so the pieces will help each other out. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 20:04:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:20:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Foil & Soldering Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:42:35 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.104235.0> Precedence: bulk IMHO (not so very H) the lamp style ( panel or small piece dome) makes a difference as well as the thickness of the glass. When I used to do 8 panel production shades (using Spectrum), I ALWAYS used 7/32 foil. My nephew and his father as well as my son, took great enjoyment in shooting out the glass of the non-saleable shades (due to a crack). The solder covered foil remained as a skeleton after the glass had been totally removed. The major failure of panel lamps can be related to no or little grinding, poor cleaning prior to soldering and poor soldering techniques. I usually use 3/16 foil for dome type lamps if the glass is as thin or thinner than Spectrum (1/8"). Someone (blamed on movers) put a chair leg through a 20" dragonfly of mine with about 60 pieces that had to be replaced. The curvature of the lamp remained intact and it was structurally solid. By the way, one has to figure at least DOUBLE the labor for the replacement of the pieces as you have to TAKE OUT pieces before you can put pieces BACK IN! (but that is another story). Hope it helps, enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 20:23:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:21:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany, Inc. anyone? Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:32:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.103232.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Christie, Dale Tiffany is an ASSUMED name...The gentleman who owns the IMPORT company is of Asian origin, and to best of my knowledge is NOT related to the Tiffany family. Due to the name, it is a "work" of Tiffany (dale). I have an address some where in my files, Moonachie, NJ rings a bell. Like most work produced where the cost of labor is not very high, the pieces tend to be rather poor and hurriedly done. >From earlier posts, you may have ascertained that I am not REAL forgiving of imported shades. Price of those is not a factor, however, as I have a simple equation to get a price from me when one compares their price....ADD a zero immediately to the left of the decimal point and multiply by 1.5. CHARGE a lot for the repair...may be able to offset the low price of the original purchase! I have seen a few import companies' shades at some of the wholesale gift shows, and so far quality is NOT evident. I do enjoy seeing the prices drop as a company figures out to do it cheaper and or cut corners. With the current problems in alot of the Asian countries, is it only a matter of time until they PAY US to take their products? sorry (not really) for the diatribe! enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 21:05:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:29:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp23.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:30:34 -0400 Message-ID: <199804240330.XAA01322@ppp23.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998Apr21.204412.0>> Precedence: bulk M Savad twistes the bytes to say: M> what it really boils down to is: how strong the foil is to the glass. M> you can have a cubic yard of solder between joints, but the joint can M> still fail due to the weakness of the grip of the foil. or if the joint M> is strait and is allowed to flex, then it really does'nt matter how much M> solder is in there, nor the foil grip. I don't understand something... If the solder surrounds the glass from each side (in a shape similar to a H came), why is the foil's glue important after the piece has been solder? The solder should serve as an enclosing and since it is sufficiently hard, this "came" does not bend easily. -- Daniel M. German "Cyberspace. A consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions William Gibson -> of legitimate operators in every nation" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 21:54:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:39:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany, Inc. anyone? Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998Apr23.143440.0> References: <<1998Apr23.13546.0>> Precedence: bulk Christie: I believe Dale Tiffany works out of New York and Los Angles. I have heard the glass is cut in New York and sent to Los Angles to send to Mexico for assembly. Some of their work is quite lovely. They do have beautiful bases and sell to a medium priced market. They mainly sell to lighting stores. The lamps look quite nice...some not such good workmanship. However, they do use good lamp glass. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 23 22:27:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:21:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany, Inc. anyone? Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:21:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.142137.0> Precedence: bulk As for the assembled in the USA, anyone want to speculate if they are made here. Best guess MADE in an Asian country and shipped separately (shades and bases) and then ASSEMBLED here, like, yes we put the shades on the bases here. enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 24 01:11:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Yough Trip Pt2 (Longer) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 03:36:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.233610.0> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk Where were we? Oh yes, leaving the train station. Our lead bus driver, Ray, was about to demonstrate his keen navigational skills. The road to the factory was at a 5 way intersection, where we took a 'soft right'. We got this info after a few cellular phone calls on the road. But the directions to the hotel must have not beeen so definitive, cuz we were ambling down this country lane for a while, when 'Wrong Way' Ray hooks a U turn into the parking lot of a sawmill. A number of cows in a field next to the mill and the mill workers smiled in unison as these two 60 foot long behemoths went off roading through their dirt parking lot. Some of the mill workers waved. I wonder if tour buses often get lost down their way. After the false start, we made our way to the Holiday in in beautiful downtown Uniontown. As we overwhelmed the checkin clerks, a few of the people who made it through to their rooms re-appeared claiming the halls were full of Valley girls, doing their best to ruin their livers a 5:00 in the afternoon. Seems we were sharing the facilities with a Gamma Epsilon Yadda Yadda sorority convention. after some re-arranging, everyone got settled in. Meanwhile it starts raining pretty good. Some nap, some eat, but we all queue up at 7:30 to bus it to Nemacolin. This ride consists of Ray going down rte 40 or something, coming to rte 119 and going straight, according to directions, but facing a decision to go left or right, East or West. He chose well this time. Rolling along we approach a BIG hill, with beaucoup warning signs, and a guard rail that doesn't look like it could constrain a shopping cart, let alone a bus. Crawling up the hill, at walking speeds, we wondered who was going to have to get out and push. Prayers of various denominations echo through the bus. Finally, we get to where we want to be, the driveway of Nemacolin. Impressive is the word. New addition, HUGE entrance. You walk inside, and there are these HUGE crystal chandeliers, must be 15 - 20 feet high, way over head. 40 ft ceilings? Fluted columns on green marble bases. We met our leader, start walking through the halls - paintings on the walls. Lautrec? Picasso? Originals? YES - right out there to touch, drool over. NO glass barriers, no showcases. Get as close as you want. Then we start to come to the lamps. Floor lamps, table lamps. Sitting on the floor. Perched atop a table. I don't know if I have ever seen a real, documented Tiffany before, let alone touch one. But here we are, close enough to smell it. Our resident expert, Joe Porcelli is discussing the merits of this viburnium? laburniun? floor lamp. Extolling the virtues of the hand made base. Looking under the shade, cuz It looks like - YES plating - there was such a quality to he light, I couldn't believe even Tiffany could get that effect. Well he did, by using two layers of glass in spots, on the inside surface. There are (I think) 7 lamps to ogle. Go a bit further down the hall, and there's a 3 section panel. a little further, there's a 'sun room, with this HUGE overhead piece, which needs someone to lie on the floor to photograph (yes, I did). This place is full of treasures, all in the open, with a few exceptions. There was a vase under a 'bell jar', don't remember the artist, but was quoted a value of US$ 7,000,000.00. Ouch. The rest of the facility was great, there's a cigar bar, richly furnished in leather couches and chairs, with a great list of Ports, Brandies and Cognacs. all the way up to Louis XII, as $90 a snifter. The buses were due to leave at 10, nd 11 pm. Good old Ray took the first busload, while the rest of us wandered. The other bus started loading a little later, with the crew rounding up stragglers. Back to the Holiday inn. We get there, no Ray, or his bus. We go to the bar. The other driver asks if we have seen the other passengers. Nope. Twenty minutes later, they start coming in. It seems Ray went the wrong way (again), and to add to the fun, decided to make a U-turn halfway down this same mountain road, in the rain.Additional deities were petitioned. So, it seems the straggler search party missed a few (right Lavergne?), and good ol' Ray hd to make another trip up Bald mountain to retrieve the missing sheep. The next morning, we checked out, and boarded the buses again, off to Falling Water. Ray took us some narrow counrty roads, and I wondered if we were going to sit through one of his renowned U-turns again. But no, we were actually going the right way. We arrived in the rain again. Luckily, the waiting area to get on the tour is covered. We broke up into seven groups, as they will only take groups of up to 15 at a time. My group was last, so we wandered through the gift shop, and cafe, till our number was called. You go through ths wooded path to get to the house. The first view is incredible. Mr. Wright got it right. The house seems to grow out of the earth. The tour starts in the common room, and wends it's way upward to the bedrooms. The detail in design is amazing. The tour guides are well informed, and very helpful. There were many anecdotes about the disagreements between Wright, and the owner (pardon me but I forgot the family name. I'm writing this at 3 am, waiting to go to the airport. Car service not due to 4.) A glass related factoid - there is an original Tiffany Lotus Lamp in the house. The building is in need of a major renovation. If you don't know what to do with your tax return, think about making a donation to the Western Pennsylvania Conservancy. You can earmark your donation to be channeled to the house renovation. The bus ride back to Allentown was uneventful but LOOOOOONG. I think the people who arranged this trip deserve a BIG THANK YOU for arranging this gig, and for perservereing through all the hiccups. One person mentioned that ths was the first bus tour that he had been on where he had to load his own luggage. I don't think of this as being a bus tour, but an expedition by a group of glass lovers that travelled by bus. Many thanks to Charles, Marianne and Chris from W/C, Joe Porcelli, and yes, even RAY. If they do this again, book your tickets early. It's a great trip with a bunch of great people. PS, I'm getting brain dead. I promised to tell of the travails of getting from Seattle to Allentown, but our long distance prize winner will have to share that with you all. PPS - I think W/C takes what they do a lot further than just running a business- they give something back. The specials at the train station were below what W/C could sell glass for, and even though their taking people there prolly cost them business, they took them there anyway. PPPS I don't do PS's -- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?' "Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 24 01:31:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:44:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: We're on Vacation Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 03:41:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr23.23411.0> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk I'm leaving for a week in Aruba in a few hours, and have dropped from the list while I'm gone. Be back on the air 5/4. so if you want me to see something, send it directly to me, not the group I will reply when I get back -- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?' "Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 24 07:25:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:00:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:57:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr24.55733.0> References: <<199804240330.XAA01322@ppp23.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Daniel M. German wrote: > > M Savad twistes the bytes to say: > > M> what it really boils down to is: how strong the foil is to the glass. > M> you can have a cubic yard of solder between joints, but the joint can > M> still fail due to the weakness of the grip of the foil. or if the joint > M> is strait and is allowed to flex, then it really does'nt matter how much > M> solder is in there, nor the foil grip. > > I don't understand something... > > If the solder surrounds the glass from each side (in a shape similar > to a H came), why is the foil's glue important after the piece has > been solder? The solder should serve as an enclosing and since it is > sufficiently hard, this "came" does not bend easily. > > -- > Daniel M. German "Cyberspace. A consensual hallucination > experienced daily by billions > William Gibson -> of legitimate operators in every nation" > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the solder does surround it, but it just keeps the foil in place. it's like to boards glued together (to form a shelf). they can be strong, but if you put a big tv on the seam it would eventually fail (if not immediately). the only way the seam could hold the weight longer, would be to but a frame around the shelf (like two strips of wood), it would strengthen the shelf, the forces of the tv would be spread out on a solid piece of wood. foil looks alot like came after it's been soldered, and like came, it allows flexibility. this is why it's so important to do a very good job foiling. it's what keeps the project together, you can have a lousy foil job and still cover it in solder. but the project would probably fall apart, because the foil let go. but if the glass is surrounded by more glass, and the seams don't line up, then that will make the project stronger.... though currently we're talking about windows here. 3-d stuff is generally much stronger. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 24 09:53:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Foil & Soldering Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:02:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr24.8215.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Howard and Elaine Rubin" >By the way, one has to figure at least DOUBLE the labor for the replacement of the pieces as you have t= o TAKE OUT pieces before you can put pieces BACK IN! (but that is another story).< Bless you for being the person that finally gave me a wonderfully simple, yet effective measure on how to charge for repair! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 24 16:38:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:57:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Foil & Soldering Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:48:08 -0100 Message-ID: <1998Apr24.17488.0> Precedence: bulk Also, to add to this line.. I always tried to get the tightest fit = between the glass pieces, that is why you use foil shears.. This line of = conversations leads me to think that gaps between pieces are necesary.. = What are your replies?. Gloria -----Original Message----- From: Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo [SMTP:Ensembles@compuserve.com] Sent: Thursday, April 23, 1998 6:48 PM To: Bungi Subject: Foil & Soldering Message text written by "M. Savad" >what it really boils down to is: how strong the foil is to the glass. you can have a cubic yard of solder between joints, but the joint can still fail due to the weakness of the grip of the foil. or if the joint is strait and is allowed to flex, then it really does'nt matter how much solder is in there, nor the foil grip.< So...does this imply that a wider foil, say 1/4" makes a better constructed solder channel than a 7/32" , since there is more of the foil overlapped on top of the glass? If this is true, (which I suspect it is), then the question of strength versus beauty comes into play. For, to my mind, the thinner the solder line (and the more glass showing), the better. But this may not be the best for long-term construction. So...is there any sort of advice you can give on which width of foil to use in which circumstance? For instance, with Spectrum Waterglass (a slightly thinner glass than normal), I prefer to use 3/16" or 7/32". But with highly textured glass, the 1/4" is my preferred. Is there a size to be used for lamp construction versus panel construction? Or is it more just a function of how much overlap is there on the top of the glass? Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 24 17:37:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:06:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Foil & Soldering Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:02:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr24.16259.0> References: <<1998Apr24.17488.0>> Precedence: bulk Gloria & George wrote: > > Also, to add to this line.. I always tried to get the tightest fit = > between the glass pieces, that is why you use foil shears.. This line of = > conversations leads me to think that gaps between pieces are necesary.. = > What are your replies?. > Gloria whether there's gaps or not, the strength should be about the same. it's mainly the foil holding power that's at stake. the only main difference between a tight fitting panel and a loose one, is the loose on will be heavier. more gaps, the more solder, the more weight, the more money. gaps or no gaps, the main thing is the overall strength of the design. you could use 3/8" foil, with 4" of solder in between, and the joint is no stronger. becuase the weakest point is at the foil to glass line. if you were to make 2 squares and solder them together, it would most likely bend at that seam regardles off solder/foil. but put a border piece, or wire around the object an it will strengthen it quite a bit. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 24 18:04:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:19:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Foil & Soldering Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 16:50:06 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1998Apr24.17488.0>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > Also, to add to this line.. I always tried to get the tightest fit = > between the glass pieces, that is why you use foil shears.. This line of = > conversations leads me to think that gaps between pieces are necesary.. = > What are your replies?. the reason to use foil shears is so that patterns don't grow when you foil the glass, as there's some thickness to the 2 edges of foil multiplied by the number of foil lines across the panel. i always thought that i was 'making' H shaped lead with the solder. if none gets between the pieces of glass, then one is depending upon the adhesive to hold it together (for panels). i somehow doubt that the adhesive is going to be ok after 30 years. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 24 18:38:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass Lovers Weekend Pt1 (long) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:43:41 +0000 Message-ID: <199804250043.BAA16199@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Bunginians, I have enjoyed every single account of this trip, drooled at every detail, sat in the bus through all the u-turns with Ray, been green with envy, felt pretty sick at the wonderful chance-in-a-lifetime-prices!!! Thanks for sharing! Made my day! Big round of applause to Charles and Marianne!! ?? (Charles called it so very modestly "Bus Tour" in a e-mail to me). Thanks all for this cheery experience (albeit second-hand) in wet, rainy, soggy, muddy UK (wettest for 100 years, we are told!), where I have been glaring at a blown-up micro-wave (it just went BANG! and then the kitchen started to stink!!), tv that's gone "pphhhuittt", then dead; hi-fi that's gone "kaputt" and I'm still smarting after the horrendeous car repair bill some weeks ago. Crocodile tears in frustration over soldering I have made a real mess of (I wouldn't even allow my Beginners to get away with!!) . Why ME??? Pick on someone your OWN size, You Up There!!! Talking about Crocodiles... that's another story - .. more to follow.... It's 10 feet long and 3 feet wide..... (yeah, the story too :-> ) Take care! Elisabeth 'n Toby (sporting his new Spring Hair-Cut!!) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 24 19:09:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:41:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Stnglsgrn From: Stnglsgrn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Foil & Soldering Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:26:44 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr25.12644.0> Precedence: bulk It's always been my understanding the the adhesive was only to hold the foil to the glass until the pieces where soldered together. It is the solder and fit that gives foil projects there limited strength and it is limited. For shades I would think the dome shape adds more strength then the solder ever could. With good soldering technique I don't think a foil joint could be made tight enough so solder would not pass through. By the way craftsmen at Tiffany Studio's used bees wax to hold the foil to the glass. Don ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 24 22:20:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:46:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: earthlink.net!ftorres From: Frank Torres To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Wrong Mailbox Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:45:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr24.144531.0> Precedence: bulk WE ARE EXCEPTIONALLY TIRED OF RECEIVING MESSAGES FOR YOU AT OUR MAILBOX.....46 JUST THIS EVENING. PLEASE RECTIFY THIS PROBLEM. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 25 03:09:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:53:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: morn@nac.net Subject: Re: Foil & Soldering Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:28:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr24.172824.0> References: <<1998Apr24.17488.0>>> Precedence: bulk Mike, I'm really not trying to start a war, but if you take this to it's logical conclusion, you could just tin over the tops of all of your foil without building a bead at all and have a strong panel, just as long as the foil has good glue. In reality any stress on such a panel would tear the foil and fail. The metal mass is an important structural consideration. Of course if the glass pieces in your compostiton are small, it takes less metal thickness around each one to add up to adequate support. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:02:59 -0400 "M. Savad" writes: >Gloria & George wrote: >> >> Also, to add to this line.. I always tried to get the tightest fit = >> between the glass pieces, that is why you use foil shears.. This >line of = >> conversations leads me to think that gaps between pieces are >necesary.. = >> What are your replies?. >> Gloria > >whether there's gaps or not, the strength should be about the same. >it's >mainly the foil holding power that's at stake. the only main >difference >between a tight fitting panel and a loose one, is the loose on will be >heavier. more gaps, the more solder, the more weight, the more money. >gaps or no gaps, the main thing is the overall strength of the design. >you could use 3/8" foil, with 4" of solder in between, and the joint >is >no stronger. becuase the weakest point is at the foil to glass line. > >if you were to make 2 squares and solder them together, it would most >likely bend at that seam regardles off solder/foil. but put a border >piece, or wire around the object an it will strengthen it quite a bit. > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects >Added >and My Updated Shop Photo's >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 25 03:19:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:30:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:21:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr24.172122.0> References: <<1998Apr21.204412.0>>> Precedence: bulk Daniel, You are correct. The "cames" formed by the copper foil method are considerably stronger per unit mass than any pure lead came could ever be. There are some who push the limits of the materials by depending on the adhesive of the foil for structural strength. These works will not stand up to the test of time. If you have ever restored older foiled works, often the adhesive is no longer sticky. Had these pieces depended on that adhesive, there would be little left of them. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com > >I don't understand something... > >If the solder surrounds the glass from each side (in a shape similar >to a H came), why is the foil's glue important after the piece has >been solder? The solder should serve as an enclosing and since it is >sufficiently hard, this "came" does not bend easily. > > > >-- >Daniel M. German "Cyberspace. A consensual >hallucination > experienced daily by billions > William Gibson -> of legitimate operators in every >nation" >http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html >dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 25 09:46:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:19:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: pkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Bio# 14 Carol J. Rochnowski Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:20:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Apr25.6204.0> Precedence: bulk Name: Carol J. Rochnowski ( an absorbed lurker and faithful daily reader who now has binders of ideas for reference from you all) Home: Lake Stevens, WA. Status: single, with cat (Hallie) middle aged in body (but don't know when I got here) but well in touch with my =93inner child=94 "Real Job": Assistant Vice President, Senior Financial Consultant, Certified Financial Planner at Merrill Lynch (17 years now in financial services world) I absolutely love working with my clients. Most all of them have become dear friends and have sat at the kitchen table at one time or another. I know how much =93richer=94 their lives are having worked with me. It=92s = heart warming to be able to tell the 70yo widow that she can go to the Holy Land on her dream trip. Past Life: Special Education Teacher and Elementary School Counselor worked in that field for 20 years taught in Goose Bay, Labrador, Canada, for two years and in Germany for another 12 years had midlife career change (Totally Unplanned) =93Real Description": Vertically and horizontially challenged, Silver-haired, and Polish with quick self-deprecating humor Pet Peeves: intolerance and small minds (both of which I, of course, can be accused of at times) Other Life Changes: major health scare 2 years ago Results: add more creative/right-brained activities to my daily life say =93No=94 more took a stained glass class More Results: totally hooked on every aspect of the stained glass process I work slowly, not caring if it takes months to finish a piece.Working on: 20" circular underwater fishes, turtle, and seaweed scene for a young friend's graduation gift Also working on: cleaning downstairs from broken water heater sodden books, tax files, Christmas decorations, family photos Also calling my name: pulling weeds remodeling plans plans for a trip on the coastal steamer in Norway in Sept . Thinking about: my first lamp project (coming up next) Wondering: why it is impossible for me to "do a pattern/recipe/plan" without immediately thinking about how I could change it. How it is I got to the age when my peers (and dear friends) are dying Other Passions: reading every night (nightstand has on it as I write this =96 Cloister Walk, Life+Death in Shanghai, Talk Before Sleep, Paradise, Just a Corpse at Twilight, A Woman=92s World =96 Tales of Life = on the Road Playing/working on my computers =96 although I think they can be great time bandits, I do love the time I spend on them. (I am a surfer, a lurker, but not a game player.) Amazed at: how many neato-ka-cheato folks there are in the world how I tend to forget that when we are bombarded with all the news about the stinkers Thanks to: you all for coming up with the bio idea Patrick for making it possible Carol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 25 09:59:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:30:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: pkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Bio#15 Wayne Munro Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:30:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Apr25.63042.0> Precedence: bulk I am not really sure where to start with this, so I will start from the beginning and work up and everyone can delete what they don't want. I was born and raised in the beautiful Comox Valley, on Vancouver Island on the beautiful west coast of Canada on May 18, 1950. (That makes me 29!) I started grade 1 here in the Valley and at the age of 7, moved to Knight Inlet on the West Coast to live where my father was employed as a Faller in the Forest Industry. There were not many people there, only the one's that worked there. Maybe 20 people at most. Only 1 other person sorta my age to play with. Worked out good tho, (Except having your mother as your teacher--couldn't lie about 'what went on at school that day!) as I took correspondence for schooling for the next 5 years before moving to another logging camp farther up the coast in Smith/ Rivers Inlet. There at the age of 12--13, was where I learned the 'finer' things in life. Again, only one other person my age---'Fuzzy'. There we would work on weekends fueling machines etc. to earn money. (About $11.00 a day if I remember right). I spent my money on the normal things kids spent there money on, guns, boat, etc. (The nearest store was 300 miles away.) That was my pride and joy---a 12 foot Sangstercraft boat with a 45 West Bend outboard!! The outboard was definitly too big for the boat as my Dad couldn't use it as it would fill with water when he went to start it because of the weight of the motor. Didn't have to worry about outrunning the killer whales with that puppy!! (That's another story) The boss also had a airplane. (Cessna 172 on floats) We lived on a float camp) and that was where I developed my love of flying. I was his 'chief fueler-upper'. We used to drive my mother nuts! I, sitting there doing my school work and he would come banging on the kitchen door to get me to help with fuel-up, next thing we knew, we would have to 'head out in the plane to 'do stuff'. My mother watching out the window as we disappeared. Seems to me, didn't get much school work done! Grade 7 took me to Vancouver B.C. to Va ncouver Tech to 'continue my education'. I stayed with my Aunt and Uncle and went to school. Well, that lasted 1 whole year! Just didn't like the city--no boat -- nothing! Hardly worth going there!! Back to camp and correspondence for grade 8. And then Grade 9-- Went to Ocean Falls. 1963/1964. For those of you that remember, that was when the 'big' landslide came down. Most people were at the basketball game, casualties were minimum. That wasn't the only disaster to happen that year! Didn't like the school, the people I lived with, (Couldn't handle pancakes 3 times a day!!!) Learned to smoke cigarettes, and yep--you guessed it--NO BOAT!! God had obviously meant for people to go fishing/ hunting etc. when they felt like it--not 'on a goofy schedule or 'when they were allowed'!!) Hence--my second year of grade 9, I took in Cumberland B.C. (The famous coal mining area of the early 1900's. (My family had moved to the Valley by then) After completing grade 10, I left school and went to work in the forest industry. I have worked all my life in that industry and have done the 'rigging' jobs as well as drive logging truck and run log loader. I learned to fly in 1976 and continued to enjoy that pastime until 1990, when the local flying club moved out of the area. This was a political move and it made me mad so I never flew again---sure showed them! (Now I am not healthy enough to hold my license, so I can just 'look up and dream'! Most of the time, we moved from camp to camp just because you got bored. (There were hundreds of jobs back then and you just had to show up at a worksite and start work---one was never out of work unless I wanted to be. I have been a member and involved in the IWA union since I started in the industry. (That makes me a member for 34 years. (Looking forward to that pension!) I have spent the past 18 years as an officer holding many positions from recording secretary to 2nd and 3rd Vice-president. (I left them positions in December of last year because of health reasons) and now will go back to logging in Gold River where I have been for the past 28 years, as soon as health allows it. I am married with 4 children....all girls! (GOD!!!) Oldest one is 30 and lives in Radium B.C. next one is 26 and lives in MacKenzie B.C. #3 is presently in Psych. Nursing in Capilano College in Vancouver, while #4 is here in Courtenay expecting their 1st child any day. (Her other occupation is driving me nuts--and she should get more money as she is real good at her job!) I have 4 +(1/2) grandchilden. The best part of grandchildren is you can send them home when they start to bug you. My wife says that if she would of known that grand kids were so much fun, she would of had them first! OH yeh...glass...I have always enjoyed stained glass. I have done a large number of hobbies, Woodworking (which I still do) model R/C Planes, Oil Painting, raced stock cars, rug weaving. Never really stuck with anything too long. However, I was off work one winter, 3 years ago, when I went into a local stained glass shop. Well, I convinced myself that was the thing to do. I worked away and on the road, so I was unable to take lessons, so I learned from the books I could find and from asking questions at the local glass shop. (They were real good considering I never could get to take any of the courses they put on). I now enjoy doing mostly clocks, lamps and mirror panels. I am starting to teach myself etching and sandcarving from Norm Dobbins videos. It is going OK, but I am 1 tape short!! (More on this to the group later if they don't get me a replacement!) I had a heart attack in April of last year which kinda slowed me down a bit. The doctors here said it was a minor blockage and diet etc. would fix it up. Low and behold, I had another MI in January 98. I ended up with another doctor who sent me to Victoria where the specialists are, and they found 3 totally blocked arteries!! Well they kept me there and did triple bypass on Feb. 4. I am still a bit sore, but am on the mend. I am just getting back into my glass now and am starting an overhead lamp. A friend wants a oval door so I will be back at it soon. I also enjoy camping (27 foot motorhome) and fishing. Most of the time only salmon although trout fishing is good here too. The first 'big' camping trip is Easter--looking forward to it. Wayne Munro 'Snail mail' address 2960 Suffield Road, Courtenay, B.C. Canada V9N-3V5 ICQ # 2762376 Phone and Fax-- (250) 338-5507 "Call before sending a fax so setup is complete" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 25 13:14:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:41:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Its Alison Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:36:05 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr25.19365.0> Precedence: bulk I haven't seen my friend Alison on line in our glass room, nor has she emptied her mail box which is full, I haven't seen any posts on bungi either. Has anyone on the list heard from her, if so, please respond privately to me, I don't want to bog down the list with replies... Maureen mosfunland@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 25 13:33:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:48:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Foil & Soldering Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:00:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr25.10047.0> References: <<1998Apr25.12644.0>> Precedence: bulk Stnglsgrn wrote: > > It's always been my understanding the the adhesive was only to hold the foil > to the glass until the pieces where soldered together. It is the solder and > fit that gives foil projects there limited strength and it is limited. For > shades I would think the dome shape adds more strength then the solder ever > could. With good soldering technique I don't think a foil joint could be made > tight enough so solder would not pass through. > By the way craftsmen at Tiffany Studio's used bees wax to hold the foil to the > glass. > Don > ---- i though he used bees wax to hold the glass to the glass easel for plating placement. primarily it's all based on the design of your project. i think when tiffany made up the foil method, it did'nt come sticky. even as a professional you'll have some gaps. though the most important thing to prevent 'fall apart' is a well designed project. what i'm curious is, does the sunlight help bake the glue onto the glass? the soldering iron melt's it took quickly and it burns. but the sunlight (i guess), help secure it better? kind of like sticky tar tabs on roof shingles... just a thought anyway. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 25 13:46:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:53:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: dodgestudio@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Foil & Soldering Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:06:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr25.10634.0> References: <<1998Apr24.17488.0>>> Precedence: bulk dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: > > Mike, > > I'm really not trying to start a war, but if you take this to it's > logical conclusion, you could just tin over the tops of all of your foil > without building a bead at all and have a strong panel, just as long as > the foil has good glue. In reality any stress on such a panel would tear > the foil and fail. The metal mass is an important structural > consideration. > Of course if the glass pieces in your compostiton are small, it takes > less metal thickness around each one to add up to adequate support. > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > > http://www.dodgestudio.com > > On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:02:59 -0400 "M. Savad" writes: > >Gloria & George wrote: > >> > >> Also, to add to this line.. I always tried to get the tightest fit = > >> between the glass pieces, that is why you use foil shears.. This > >line of = > >> conversations leads me to think that gaps between pieces are > >necesary.. = > >> What are your replies?. > >> Gloria > > > >whether there's gaps or not, the strength should be about the same. > >it's > >mainly the foil holding power that's at stake. the only main > >difference > >between a tight fitting panel and a loose one, is the loose on will be > >heavier. more gaps, the more solder, the more weight, the more money. > >gaps or no gaps, the main thing is the overall strength of the design. > >you could use 3/8" foil, with 4" of solder in between, and the joint > >is > >no stronger. becuase the weakest point is at the foil to glass line. > > > >if you were to make 2 squares and solder them together, it would most > >likely bend at that seam regardles off solder/foil. but put a border > >piece, or wire around the object an it will strengthen it quite a bit. > > > >---Mike Savad oh i'm not starting a war, it's hard to emphasize (sp?) or not, in e-mail... it's both metal mass and foil and design that are all important. a flat soldered panel is much weaker then a beaded panel. some of the flex is absorbed into the beads. though if it's a weak point it would flex and break off regardless of how much foil/solder is used. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 25 21:57:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:37:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp10.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Foil & Soldering Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 00:35:12 -0400 Message-ID: <199804260435.AAA01764@ppp10.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998Apr24.17488.0>> Precedence: bulk M Savad twistes the bytes to say: M> oh i'm not starting a war, it's hard to emphasize (sp?) or not, in M> e-mail... it's both metal mass and foil and design that are all M> important. a flat soldered panel is much weaker then a beaded panel. M> some of the flex is absorbed into the beads. though if it's a weak point M> it would flex and break off regardless of how much foil/solder is used. (I am going to say plenty of things that probably most of you already know, so please bear with me) Yes, Mike, it is metal mass and foil. But the stickiness of the foil should not be a factor. And you're also right that design is important. The glass does not bend. If the window is exposed to stress, it will tend to bend in the seam. If the seem runs from side to side of the window, it will naturally break in it; or at least, bend. There is also a point in which the strength of a solder seam is maximized (depending on factors such as length of the seam, distance between glass, tightness, and distance that it reaches above the glass): For instance, if the seam is too wide, it will be weak, if it is too narrow, it will also be weak. The most important factor seems to be the characteristics of the bead. The bead gives structural strength to the seam because it tends to avoid that the glass moves in an axis perpendicular to the seam. If the seam is too bulky, then it adds extra weight to itself and makes it non-optimal. The bead is not only aesthetic purposes, it is to make the flat part of the H round and to increase its strength. The foil determines its characteristics. We have learnt that good fooling is the key to resistent panels. Why? Because it determines the size of the seam and second because a uniform foil --without breaks-- makes a uniform seam. A break in the foil means a break in the seam and it makes it less strong. My belief is that a tight fit between the foil and the glass is very important to achieve a tight fit between the solder and the glass. THe tighter the fit the more monolithical the work will become. And a very important, and often forgotten part --from my instructors point of view-- is to bead the exterior of the work. A good, solid bead will give it a tight surrounding, with no space for the glass to move and to overstress any seam, specially if the work is a sun catcher, that has no place to stand in order to support the weight of the glass. A framed window panel will greatly gain structurally from the frame, where is can support "its own weight". The same happens with panels that are surrounded by zinc came. THe came is more difficult to bend than the solder, leaving a more resistant panel than with plain solder. Otherwise the design is depending on the effectiveness of the glue --as it was pointed out before-- and that seems to be too dangerous. Somebody mentioned in a private mail that she had learned the importance of the glue when she washed the work and the pieces started to fall apart. I wonder if it was a lack of a good surrounding bead that created this problem. The solder should have a threshold point in which it can not withstand any more stress --as any other material does. THe solder is malleable as we very well know and therefore there is a limit that we have to observe in order to create "resistant" panels. I guess that knowing this limit comes with years of experience and good judgment. A good, experienced artisan knows when a project is getting into "dangerous" territories and suggests modifications. Think about it as cathedral building. For years many were built --and many collapsed. BUt the good architects were the ones that turn the beauties that we can still admire. I am sure there is math that can solve our --my?-- questions, but wonder if somebody has taken the time to investigate the issue. I tried to find some information on the subject in our library, but I was not lucky to find any. M> ---Mike Savad M> -- M> Mike's Stained Glass M> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 M> 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added M> and My Updated Shop Photo's M> ---- M> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com M> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com M> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Daniel M. German "In science, read, by preference, the newest works; in literature, Georges Leclerc Buffon -> the oldest." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 25 22:27:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp10.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: "M. Savad" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 00:43:33 -0400 Message-ID: <199804260443.AAA01772@ppp10.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199804240330.XAA01322@ppp23.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk M Savad twistes the bytes to say: M> the solder does surround it, but it just keeps the foil in place. it's M> like to boards glued together (to form a shelf). they can be strong, but M> if you put a big tv on the seam it would eventually fail (if not M> immediately). the only way the seam could hold the weight longer, would M> be to but a frame around the shelf (like two strips of wood), it would M> strengthen the shelf, the forces of the tv would be spread out on a M> solid piece of wood. As any good woodworker will tell you: the a well glued joint is stronger than the grain of most woods. The shelf will break along the grain but not along the joint. I understand your analogy. Thought it is not totally adequate. glass is beaded, adding strength is all directions. It will break, but it will break easier if it does not have a bead at all. M> foil looks alot like came after it's been soldered, and like came, it M> allows flexibility. this is why it's so important to do a very good job M> foiling. it's what keeps the project together, you can have a lousy foil M> job and still cover it in solder. but the project would probably fall M> apart, because the foil let go. Yeap. M> but if the glass is surrounded by more glass, and the seams don't line M> up, then that will make the project stronger.... though currently we're totally agreed. M> talking about windows here. 3-d stuff is generally much stronger. -- Daniel M. German "The first man of science was he who looked into a thing, not to learn whether it furnished him with food, or shelter, or weapons, or tools, or armaments, or playwiths; but who sought to know it for the gratification of Samuel Taylor Coleridge -> knowing." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 00:07:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:32:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Carol Rochnowski Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:22:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr25.152222.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Carol, did not have an address to send to privately, so........... e-mail me, some of your bio intrigued me. enjoy,H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 07:40:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:56:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: perfectionism Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:48:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr26.54816.0> References: <<199804240330.XAA01322@ppp23.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Daniel M. German wrote: > > M Savad twistes the bytes to say: > > M> the solder does surround it, but it just keeps the foil in place. it's > M> like to boards glued together (to form a shelf). they can be strong, but > M> if you put a big tv on the seam it would eventually fail (if not > M> immediately). the only way the seam could hold the weight longer, would > M> be to but a frame around the shelf (like two strips of wood), it would > M> strengthen the shelf, the forces of the tv would be spread out on a > M> solid piece of wood. > > As any good woodworker will tell you: the a well glued joint is > stronger than the grain of most woods. The shelf will break along the > grain but not along the joint. > > I understand your analogy. Thought it is not totally adequate. glass > is beaded, adding strength is all directions. It will break, but it > will break easier if it does not have a bead at all. > > M> foil looks alot like came after it's been soldered, and like came, it > M> allows flexibility. this is why it's so important to do a very good job > M> foiling. it's what keeps the project together, you can have a lousy foil > M> job and still cover it in solder. but the project would probably fall > M> apart, because the foil let go. > > Yeap. > > M> but if the glass is surrounded by more glass, and the seams don't line > M> up, then that will make the project stronger.... though currently we're > > totally agreed. > > M> talking about windows here. 3-d stuff is generally much stronger. > actually i thought of a better anology. a checkerboard design will fail becuase the lines go straight across the panel and there is'nt anything from keeping it to bend. a flower (petals around a center), is far stonger if you go to bend it, you'll be fighting against all the other pieces, where as the checker board, will bend off at the solder line/foil line. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 11:14:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany, Inc. anyone? Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:37:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Apr26.93751.0> References: <<1998Apr23.13546.0>> Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > which has a brass plate inscribed "Dale Tiffany, Inc." > soldered to the inside of the lampshade. Can anyone > tell me something about the Dale Tiffany, Inc. company? They do LL Bean's stained glass. I have seen these at their outlet in Rehobeth Beach, DE. Mostly prairie design for LL Bean. OK quality, but nothing to get excited about. On a related note, in an antique and collectible store near where I work, there is a glass panel of foil construction. It measures about 2.5 ft by 3.5 ft. Geometric pattern with a very old wood frame about. The glass is definitely rolled, but the solder appears to have some wear on it. They are asking $350 for it. The strange thing is, they are advertising it as an original Tiffany. I asked about this and they "assured" me that it was in fact a Louis Comfort Tiffany piece. When I told them that it would be worth substantially more they said they can't even get $350 for it. I then asked if they could prove that it was an original Tiffany, they said I would have to talk to the person who had it on consignment. So I did. He said he bought it at an estate auction with about 100 other pieces of stained glass work and was told that most were from a collection of original Tiffanys, but he never had anything appraised or anthenicated. Never believe what you you are told> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 14:48:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:10:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Corning Was -Re: youg. tour Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:29:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980426162950.006c269c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> References: <<199804222329.TAA23945@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk Hi Dorothy.... I work at Cornell..... lots of stained glass here, especially worth the visit is Sage Chapel, it is breathtaking. The gorges are really gorgeous, especially in the spring. Ithaca has changed considerable in the past 30 years..... but still centrally isolated upstate NY. I am sure you would enjoy a visit, Cornell, Cayuga Lake, the parks, the Wine Trail. If you do decide to come to Ithaca, be sure to let me know.... I would love to show you around,,, Where are you living now? At 07:30 PM 4/23/98 -0400, Family Account wrote: >However, I lived on the outskirts of Ithaca as a child (went to school in >Freeville), and I kind of want to go back and see if the real gorges are as >"gorgeous" (Could I resist?) as I remember from over 30 years ago. Gee, maybe >there's stained glass windows in some of the old Cornell buildings... > >Dorothy K > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 16:54:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:19:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Tiffany Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:18:19 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr26.231819.0> Precedence: bulk <>> Talking about Tiffany originals.. The other night,on the home and garden channel, they had a program called Antique Road Show. This is a show where people bring in all kinds of antiques to get info and apprasels. Two ladies brought in this beautiful stained glass lamp that had been in their family for eons. Turns out it was a genuine Tiffany. The shade had a fish pattern on it. Never saw one like it before. The appraser said it was worth about $ 100,000. They about passed out, they had no idea what they had. I could just imagine this lamp at their house, sitting on a small rickity table with one leg supported by a book ! Sometimes you just never know what you have. Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 18:23:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:46:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Stnglsgrn From: Stnglsgrn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Tiffany Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:43:49 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr27.04349.0> Precedence: bulk A church in my area is closing. They have a Tiffany window VALUED at $500,000. They would gladly sell it $200,000 if they could only find a buyer. And they have looked. Unfortunately value and selling price are two different things. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 19:30:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:48:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: morn@nac.net Subject: Re: Foil & Soldering Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:12:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr25.191225.0> References: <<1998Apr25.12644.0>>> Precedence: bulk Mike, I don't know if this will add any information that will answer your question, but at least as a point of interest........ I used to work for a real old timer way back when, (circa 1973). He still had (and gave me, some of which I still have) 6" wide rolls of fairly heavy weight foil from the old days before the stained glass people discovered the adhesive backed foil that was originally made for electrical shielding. He used to paint an adhesive from a formula of his own, onto the back of the foil and cut strips out to foil with. I think this stuff had a fairly short sticky life to it and probably did have some bees wax and turpentine, etc. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:00:47 -0400 "M. Savad" writes: >Stnglsgrn wrote: >> >> It's always been my understanding the the adhesive was only to hold >the foil >> to the glass until the pieces where soldered together. It is the >solder and >> fit that gives foil projects there limited strength and it is >limited. For >> shades I would think the dome shape adds more strength then the >solder ever >> could. With good soldering technique I don't think a foil joint >could be made >> tight enough so solder would not pass through. >> By the way craftsmen at Tiffany Studio's used bees wax to hold the >foil to the >> glass. >> Don >> ---- > > >i though he used bees wax to hold the glass to the glass easel for >plating placement. > >primarily it's all based on the design of your project. i think when >tiffany made up the foil method, it did'nt come sticky. even as a >professional you'll have some gaps. though the most important thing to >prevent 'fall apart' is a well designed project. what i'm curious is, >does the sunlight help bake the glue onto the glass? the soldering >iron >melt's it took quickly and it burns. but the sunlight (i guess), help >secure it better? kind of like sticky tar tabs on roof shingles... >just >a thought anyway. > >---Mike Savad > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 19:56:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:29:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: glue chip Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:18:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Apr26.161843.0> Precedence: bulk I have a problem, can't decide which way is right. I am working on an inset for a cabinet door using two diamond and one oval bevel, surrounded with clear glue chip. I am in a quandry trying to decide which side of the glue chip should be on the outside. The housewife in me says it should be the smooth side since that will be eaiser to keep clean. ( The door will be located near a cook top) Whot would you do? Nelda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 20:54:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:27:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Stnglsgrn Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Tiffany Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998Apr26.132355.0> References: <<1998Apr27.04349.0>> Precedence: bulk Where are you located? and What size is the Tiffany Window. May be worthwhile to check this out if it truly a Tiffany built window. Peggy On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Stnglsgrn wrote: > A church in my area is closing. They have a Tiffany window VALUED at $500,000. > They would gladly sell it $200,000 if they could only find a buyer. And they > have looked. Unfortunately value and selling price are two different things. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 21:08:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:37:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: glue chip Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:35:19 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr27.33519.0> Precedence: bulk Well, from one housewife (domestic engineer) to another.. I wouldn't think that it would make a big difference which side you put facing out. Isn't the other side just smooth? Would that not cause a glare from your kitchen light? I don't think the gluechip would be that much harder to clean... So, my vote is gluechip side facing out. Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 21:28:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:53:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: fibers Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: glue chip Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998Apr26.134925.0> References: <<1998Apr26.161843.0>> Precedence: bulk Definitely smooth side of glue chip on the outside...makes for easier cleaning. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 21:43:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lisnet.net!karinal From: Karina To: fibers , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------42266566E29BE395A7A03985" Subject: Re: glue chip Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:02:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr26.20225.0> References: <<1998Apr26.161843.0>> Precedence: bulk --------------42266566E29BE395A7A03985 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fibers wrote: > I have a problem, can't decide which way is right. > I am working on an inset for a cabinet door using two diamond and one > oval bevel, surrounded with clear glue chip. I am in a quandry trying to > decide which side of the glue chip should be on the outside. The > housewife in me says it should be the smooth side since that will be > eaiser to keep clean. ( The door will be located near a cook top) Whot > would you do? > Nelda > > Always keep the smoooth side of any glass you use on the outside when dealing with kitchen cabinets...I go by that rule....much easier to clean...also keep in mind what you have inside your cabinet when using glass like that. Do you want ppl to see inside?...do you have a light installed?..... a lot to think about when using clear glue chip in kitchen cabinets.....Karina --------------42266566E29BE395A7A03985 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

fibers wrote:

I have a problem, can't decide which way is right.
I am working on an inset for a cabinet door using two diamond and one
oval bevel, surrounded with clear glue chip. I am in a quandry trying to
decide which side of the glue chip should be on the outside. The
housewife in me says it should be the smooth side since that will be
eaiser to keep clean. ( The door will be located near a cook top) Whot
would you do?
Nelda

Always keep the smoooth side of any glass you use on the outside when dealing with kitchen cabinets...I go by that rule....much easier to clean...also keep in mind what you have inside your cabinet when using glass like that. Do you want ppl to see inside?...do you have a light installed?..... a lot to think about when using clear glue chip in kitchen cabinets.....Karina --------------42266566E29BE395A7A03985-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 22:11:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, rejones@CapAccess.org Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany, Inc. anyone? Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:37:10, -0500 Message-ID: <199804270437.AAA13924@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >On a related note, in an antique and collectible store near where I work, there is a glass panel of foil construction. It measures about 2.5 ft by 3.5 ft. Geometric pattern with a very old wood frame about. The glass is definitely rolled, but the solder appears to have some wear on it. They are asking $350 for it. The strange thing is, they are advertising it as an original Tiffany. I asked about this and they "assured" me that it was in fact a Louis Comfort Tiffany piece. When I told them that it would be worth substantially more they said they can't even get $350 for it.< Tiffany windows were done in lead to the best of my knowledge. Foil was for lamps. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Capt'n! The spellchecker kinna take this abuse!* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 26 22:11:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:44:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp11.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Tiffany Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:46:29 -0400 Message-ID: <199804270446.AAA00933@ppp11.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998Apr27.04349.0>> Precedence: bulk Stnglsgrn twistes the bytes to say: Stnglsgrn> A church in my area is closing. They have a Tiffany window VALUED at $500,000. Stnglsgrn> They would gladly sell it $200,000 if they could only find a buyer. And they How an antique can be prized at a value bigger than what people are willing to pay for it (and certainly above its manufacturing cost) beats me. -- Daniel M. German http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 02:34:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:53:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: CWWSLW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glue chip Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:55:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.05513.0> References: <<1998Apr27.33519.0>> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk I agree. I think the panel would look much nicer chip side out. Rick http://home.fuse.net/crafts/index.html updated 4/18/98 > > CWWSLW wrote: > I don't think the gluechip would be that much harder to clean... So, my vote > is gluechip side facing out. > > Susan > ---- > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 03:59:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 03:38:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: Hi imLaura To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass on Antiques Roadshow Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 06:37:12 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr27.103712.0> Precedence: bulk For anyone who is interested, Antiques Roadshow has a webpage. The address is: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/ On the webpage go to "Appraise it Yourself." Here you will find the aforementioned lamp, and you can go through a series of quesions that you answer to determine it's authenticity and value: fun and interesting. Laura P (AR junkie) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 04:31:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 03:57:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover From: "Laurean E. Clover" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glue chip Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 05:47:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr26.224742.0> References: <<1998Apr27.05513.0>> Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool Precedence: bulk I have a panel hanging in my kitchen that has glue chip in it. I have had things splash up onto it, kids pressing their dirty noses to it, and a fly squashed on it (which gave this mom a heart attack!). No problems cleaning it. In all fairness, I have to say it is about twelve feet away from my stove. I would think if you have a vent over your stove, it might not be a problem. Laurean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 06:30:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 06:07:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cape.com!sjb From: Susan Jordan Bennett To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: remove Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:57:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.45733.0> Precedence: bulk Please remove my name temorarily from this list. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 07:24:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 06:45:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: glue chip Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:44:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.54410.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Nelda: >I am working on an inset for a cabinet door using two diamond and one oval bevel, surrounded with clear glue chip. I am in a quandry trying to decide which side of the glue chip should be on the outside. The housewife in me says it should be the smooth side since that will be eaiser to keep clean. ( The door will be located near a cook top) Whot would you do?< Smooth side out. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 07:50:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 06:54:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: fibers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glue chip Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:51:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.55157.0> References: <<1998Apr26.161843.0>> Precedence: bulk fibers wrote: > > I have a problem, can't decide which way is right. > I am working on an inset for a cabinet door using two diamond and one > oval bevel, surrounded with clear glue chip. I am in a quandry trying to > decide which side of the glue chip should be on the outside. The > housewife in me says it should be the smooth side since that will be > eaiser to keep clean. ( The door will be located near a cook top) Whot > would you do? > Nelda > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass if it's for your self, the chip on the inside would be the easiest to clean. on the outside, it will give good surface reflection. i guess you could try cleaning a piece of glue chip to see how easy it would be to clean. do it as you would with what ever you use, to make sure you don't scratch it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 10:15:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:37:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: missing part two Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:35:18 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr27.163518.0> Precedence: bulk This post was sent but never came through to me, so sorry if you folks already received it...... Well maybe I forgot to say that Ray got the biggest kick out of yough. glass company. (Ray being our driver with a compass imbedded in his head.....from some irate drivee more than likely)... He got the tour of the plant too, and like myself, never got to see glass made.....I however, have SOME sense of direction and humor, which came in handy when I sensed I was going to die on the mountain.....but I digress...... Most of us came away from the plant with chunks of bizarre looking glass, which while looking strangely interesting, it had the darndest little slivers of glass filaments which embedded themselves just as nicely as a few cactii I have had the displeasure to run into...... but back to the story.... One thing about this neck of the woods was that we were surely an attraction, like my co-traveler described. We drove up a long winding hill with people lookin at us with peculiar expressions....(I imagined they were thinking....."what in blazes is a tour group doing up here, biggest attraction is the lumber mill......") After the road twisted a few more times, Ray, (wrong-way-ray as he is known in some circles), Ray made the judicious decision to turn the bus around, in the aforementioned lumber mill.....They guys at the mill...shaking their heads....waved vigourously to us, and we waved back....we should make the local paper. We sent enough dust into the air to cause another ice age as the two busses turned a giant arc and went down the hill......no mistake it rained for the next 24 hours.... My friend and I took glass classes together 7 years ago, when she decided we needed to find a "relaxing hobby" and the local art center was giving classes, run by a terrific woman, Barb Smith and her husband Bob.) So here we were out in the hill and valley side of Pennsylvania....in search of glass. The bus to Nemacolin resort headed out like any normal tour bus would....with happy go lucky people....honest to pete we drove past houses and a couple still had christmas trees in their windows....I am not sure what this was about, the air is thinner up there. So up the mountain we begin....errr- errr-errr-errr-errr I think I can I think I can....rain trying to ruin our fun.....after about 10 minutes I looked out to the top of this mountain and saw this white shining thing at the top, little did I know it was Nemacolin, which, when I stepped off the bus, it made me think "redrum redrum redrum"....The Shining... The place was such a visual treat, It was filled with treasures which I never would have come into contact with. Ever. One of the greatest treats for me, was looking thought the original Audubon plate book, and in the same area were two Tiffany lamps! There were overstuffed leather chairs and game tables set up so you could enjoy a quiet game or read a book....and this room was just one of the nooks and crannies in this "motel". I could never have imagined those crystal chandeliers, and the ballroom was fantastic. We spent a couple hours wandering the halls, nooks and crannies, sitting spots, beverage areas, drooling (figuratively) over and under the lamps and panels by Tiffany. Where the heck else could a couple of ordinary city folk see these wonders? You can visit it on the web http://www.nwlr.com/ Now after a couple double shots of Baileys on ice I was into the total mind relax thing......and then we boarded the bus. Of course it was pouring rain, and it certainly felt like a 30 degree grade....and we passed several "runnaway truck stops"....which in Philadelphia amounts to a trash truck rolling down the hill and plowing into some parked cars while its trashmen are in the local refreshment center....but I digress again.... After the first "RTS" I felt beads of sweat on my formerly relaxed farhead....(Oh I forgot to mention the smell of burning rubber).....we trundled onward, down down down....tempting fate with Ray in command. And Fate, being the ever loving jokester, spoke to Ray. Actually the entire bus was speaking to Ray......YO RAY YOU ARE GOING BACK UP THE MOUNTAIN.. you see Ray in his infinte wisdom did not have his oars in the water.....and a block before our hotel he just sort of took the wrong exit.... These chants weren't lost on me. I had realized 3/4 of the way DOWN the mountain that the beads of sweat do eventually drip down your face .... I hoped they were kidding until I saw that daggum Christmas tree up in a certain attic window again, at that point I wanted to grip the overhead bars and scream STOP the bus, I want to get off!!!!! But the woman next to me engaged me in conversation of which I have no recall...... Halfway up the mountain the finger of God had removed one of the cement road dividers and Ray seeing his moment of chance made a U-turn...of course I was sure we were going to back up OFF the mountain. And just as we were perpendicular to the road, I imagined a huge truck coming down the mountain, never expecting a renegade tour bus to be smack accross the road. But then I realized, no trucker in his right mind would be on this hill.......So we made it down and when it was time for Ray to make a right turn, the fine citizens of Uniontown could hear a bright blue tour bus hollering in unison: "Make a right Ray"....and he did....and we cheered! Meanwhile, back at the Holiday Inn, the fraternity/sorority party was going strong I guess somewhere.....but I just washed my sweatless face and hit the sheets.... Tommorrow...Fallingwater..... I am sorry if this is long and winded...hey I never say much on the list....appologies to any offended... Maureen (who has a shirt that says "I drove with Ray") and may even cross out the "Saint Christopher" from the bottom of the statue and write "RAY" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 10:28:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:01:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: glue chip Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199804271611.JAA19670@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >X-From_: owner-glass@daver.bungi.com Sun Apr 26 20:01:54 1998 >Return-Path: owner-glass@daver.bungi.com >X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers >From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) >To: "glass@ bungie.com" >Subject: glue chip >Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:18:43 -0500 >Precedence: bulk > Here's another opinion. I'd keep the texture side out, I have it in 5 cupboard doors in my own kitchen and it's not a problem to clean. I find looking at it the other way makes me feel it's in there backwards and that bothers me awhole lot more. What I have found worse...is when baking and the flour mixture kinda finds it's way to any part of the glass whether sg or glue chip and dries there, one almost needs a chiesel to pry it off. Another kitchen bummer is the large sg. lamp across from the stove above our table, it seems to get more grease on it than above the stove. Smiles, Cindy Nelda wrote: >I have a problem, can't decide which way is right. >I am working on an inset for a cabinet door using two diamond and one >oval bevel, surrounded with clear glue chip. I am in a quandry trying to >decide which side of the glue chip should be on the outside. The >housewife in me says it should be the smooth side since that will be >eaiser to keep clean. ( The door will be located near a cook top) Whot >would you do? >Nelda > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 11:09:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:39:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: iscweb.com!sherrip From: Sherri Pierce To: Sherri Pierce Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Patterns or picture of wolf (head/shoulder view)] Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:33:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.33314.0> References: <<34D91859.522C@iscweb.com>> Organization: Pzaz Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Sherri Pierce wrote: > > Hi there, > Just got your message about the wolf pattern. If you will call > me with your address or E-mail, I will send you a color photo. I did a > round about 18" and a large piece - 3'....Thanks to Suzan Haley for your > request. The small pattern is 5.95 plus $1.00 ship/hand. The large one > is $25.00 plus 3.00 ship/hand. I do not get to play with this computer > much...I'm not too literate either. But I peck away at it. > > Sherri > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Patterns or picture of wolf (head/shoulder view) > Date: Tue, 04 Nov 97 07:19:57 -0800 > From: "Suzanne Haley" > To: > > Carol, > Contact Sherri Pierce, Pzaz Glass Studios, Petaluma, CA (Phone: 707 > 763-6220). e-mail address: sherrip@iscweb.com > Also has a web page: http://www.artglassworld.com/studio/pzaz/ > Mary Ellen is her assistant. Sherri has a pattern book available - > Expressions in Glass. Recently has been doing quite a few designs re > endangered species. I was in her shop last month when she had just > finished a stunning wolf (shoulder/head view). Eyes were amazing. > At that time she was going to send the pattern, picture of finished > work, etc. into Stain Glass Quarterly. Give her a call, great artist, > great shop! Suzanne Haley > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: Paterns or picture of wolf > Author: at Internet > Date: 11/3/97 5:03 PM > > > Hi : From another lurker! > A little nervous about sending this request, as I am am quite computer > illiterate. Would anyone know where I could find a wolf pattern that > could be done in copper foil? > Thanks in advance. Carol > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Hello Carol, I said I wouldn't waste my day at this computer when it is so nice outside and I have so much work to do. But you have been waiting a long time for this answer. I have a wonderful wolf head, 18" round or what ever size you wish it to be. I also developed it into a 3' square in a southwest theme. It is not on the market but will be offered to Stained Glass Quarterly soon. How soon, don't ask. Personal designs not published as yet run around $10.00 plus shipping and the large one is $25.00 Naturally I cannot send you a copy to view. If your local outlet carries my book, Expressions In Glass, you will see the quality of my work. I also have manufactured the PZ6 Luster Brush that you may have seen on the net. It is used on a 3/8" drill an polishes your leaded and foiled work to a high shine without chemicals. Send me your address for more info. Pzaz is a small retail shop in Petaluma, Ca. in business for 19 years. We specialize in custom designs, classes, repairs, and sell retail supplies. If I can be of further help let me know. I'll look for your response. Sherri Pierce - owner ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 11:32:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:58:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany, Inc. anyone? Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Apr27.1040.0> References: <<199804270437.AAA13924@mime3.prodigy.com>> Precedence: bulk On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote: > They are asking $350 for it. The strange thing is, they are > advertising > it as an original Tiffany. I asked about this and they "assured" me > that > it was in fact a Louis Comfort Tiffany piece. When I told them that I was there again today. They have no stained glass panels left. When I asked what happened to them they said a guy came in amd made them an offer for all the panels (28 panels). He owned a company that salvages old stained glass and waarehouses the pieces for later use. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 12:30:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:15:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glue-chip Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:50:46 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Nelda: Sounds like there's no consensus of opinion on your question, but interesting reasons for both sides (of the question and of the glass). Let us know what you decide--and why! Kaye (Going back to the shadows where I'm kicking myself for not going on the Yough tour!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 12:59:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: junction.net!wibich From: "wibich" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:19:06 -0600 Message-ID: <199804271918.MAA20735@okjunc.junction.net> Precedence: bulk hi looking for information and stain glass suppliers...as well as just discussing techniques and processes ciya wibich ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 14:26:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:56:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover From: "Laurean E. Clover" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Harley pattern Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:52:12 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.85212.0> References: <<35450B0B.3FF1@rconnect.com>> Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool Precedence: bulk I have a customer in the making who is a faithful Harley lover. I on the other hand know nil about them. I am wondering if any of you know of a pattern or pattern book on the market with the logo or a motorcycle? Or maybe can direct me in this venture? Thanks alot! Laurean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 16:37:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:58:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: glue chip Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:47:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.124737.0> Precedence: bulk No longer in a quandry. I believe the general opnion is "suit yourself". It is going in my son's new kitchen, no back lighting, and since it will be near the cook top , I've decided to put the smooth side out. Even though they have a good venting sytem, getting grease off, can be a chore neither his wife or I like to think about. The cabinet will hold a set of pretty glasses on a lazy susan and should be easy to keep neat. Thank you all for your very thoughtful advice. Nelda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 17:05:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:39:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Hand tool Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:28:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.132844.0> Precedence: bulk The discussions on this group is so interesting and informative that I would like to ask another question. What is your most valuable handtool. Not in $'s but rather in usefullness. If it is adapted , please tell us how, if it's made, please tell us that too. If it was bought, where? Looking forward to the next posts. Nelda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 18:09:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:34:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Mon, 27 Apr 98 20:31:56 -0400 Message-ID: <199804280030.UAA09178@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk >What is your most valuable handtool. Not in $'s but rather in >usefullness. If it is adapted , please tell us how, if it's made, please >tell us that too. If it was bought, where? >Looking forward to the next posts. Nelda, I would have to nominate the Morton grid system with its studio bar for cutting straight lines and right angles. Don't know how I'd live without it! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 18:27:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:34:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover From: "Laurean E. Clover" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:30:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.123053.0> References: <<1998Apr27.132844.0>> Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool Precedence: bulk one of my most valuable tools is my permanant marker. I use it to trace my pattern pieces, mark measurements. drawing my pattern, and to burnish foil to the glass. Laurean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 18:33:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:44:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: scc.net!oddjob From: Sue Reitmann To: "'Glasss Group'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: New helpful tip Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:48:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.144840.0> Precedence: bulk Don't know if we ever discussed this before or not. Ran into a great find today while browsing through the dollar store. I have my grinder placed inside an aquarium to help prevent splash and protect eyes. Having almost reached the "golden Senior years" my eye sight isn't as sharp as it was and sometimes I have difficulty seeing the pattern lines on those itty-bitty pieces. Found what is called a magnifying sheet. It is a flat 8" x11"sheet ( of some kind of clear plastic) that I placed on top of the aquarium. Works like a charm and it only cost a buck!! Magnifies without distortion and WOW..I can see! Sue Reitmann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 19:08:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:32:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp18.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:31:45 -0400 Message-ID: <199804280131.VAA00437@ppp18.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<199804280030.UAA09178@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk >> What is your most valuable handtool. Not in $'s but rather in >> usefullness. If it is adapted , please tell us how, if it's made, please >> tell us that too. If it was bought, where? >> Looking forward to the next posts. Can anything be more valuable than my glass cutter? (No matter how cheapy, ugly, old it might be). The cutter and the iron make my work possible. Everything else are luxuries. -- Daniel M. German "I still have to see a problem, however complicated, which, when you looked at it in the right way Poul Anderson -> did not become still more complicated" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 19:21:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:40:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:38:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.173849.0> References: <<1998Apr27.132844.0>> Precedence: bulk fibers wrote: > > The discussions on this group is so interesting and informative that I > would like to ask another question. > > What is your most valuable handtool. Not in $'s but rather in > usefullness. If it is adapted , please tell us how, if it's made, please > tell us that too. If it was bought, where? > Looking forward to the next posts. > Nelda > > ---- not quite a hand tool, but i'd have to say my brain, it's come quite in handy from time to time. the second tool is my hands.... :) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 20:05:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:47:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: SusieHUs To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glue-chip Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:44:50 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr28.24450.0> Precedence: bulk I put glue chip in 9 cabinet doors (until I can make panels for them at a later date). And I placed them smooth side out. Eight of them are in two cabinets over an island and have doors on both sides so light shines through them and I can see the texture very well eventhough it faces inward. They are right over my stove and a very active grill and I have no trouble cleaning them this way. Susie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 20:40:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:20:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:18:25 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr28.31825.0> Precedence: bulk My favorite tool is this little plastic thingy that crimps my foil for me. (I only do copperfoil work) I've had it for years, does a great job. I think it is called a kwik-crimp. Sells for about $6.00. Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 21:08:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Gold tone patina finish Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:43:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.184314.0> Precedence: bulk I need advice on how to get a gold tone finish on my Impatience with filigree lamp shade. ( used quick set solder) I used antique brass patina on two projects. One looked goldish and the other was antique looking. Just like the bottle said. LOL What I am looking for is a gold or brass finish. What do you folks use? Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I fairly new to stained glass. TIA Goldpaws ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 21:22:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:42:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "fibers" , "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:45:26 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.114526.0> Precedence: bulk For straight line and repetitive cutting MORTON. For grozing fishlip pliers....still looking for some to sell to you (all). Have you tried to do a major project without a grinder? Not needed tools????? start this thread as well. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 21:35:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:07:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (a/k/a Tracy)" To: Sue Reitmann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: New helpful tip Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:20:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.17206.0> References: <<1998Apr27.144840.0>> Precedence: bulk I'm picturing myself peering so close to what I'm grinding that I leave smudge marks from my face on the glass of the aquarium!!! Glad you finally found that manifying thing since I know you've been looking for one for almost a year now. Where'd you find it? Seems my eyes have been getting REALLY bad what with all the work I've been doing on the computer of late and once I get my new shop set up I'll be needing one! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 21:36:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:42:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: 28 panels and value? Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:43:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.11432.0> Precedence: bulk Do you think anyone who could amass 28 panels would not know what they were? How do think 28 Tiffany panels would be together in one place. If all the Tiffany projects purported to be REAL, were....the factory would still be churning out pieces just to keep up with the numbers so people could think they were Tiffanies. Very rare to see a "new" one appear for sale with out any documentation. let alone 28 panels. I have a few auction books and prices realized, as well as documentation of existing ones. As an aside, I turned down $950.00 for one of my auction books....cost $45.00 RETAIL when it was published. Any item is only worth what one can get for it! The raw materials used is irrelevant to the final cost and the demand. CASE in point....I buy and sell BEANIE-BABIES...I will not pay over $7.00 for one, but have had high offers on some...same raw material, same imported crap, but COLLECTABLE and sought after by those who WANT them.....It is called SUPPLY and DEMAND!!!!! Even some of my earlier shades have gone up for local auction and have sold for more than the original cost to the estate and I am still (marginally) alive! enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 21:48:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:20:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:14:08 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr28.4148.0> Precedence: bulk Gotta be my credit card........it functions as a straight edge.....inables my dreams to come true.....fits in any pocket.... runner up number two......my square, I use it all the time with glass. Maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 23:09:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:46:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Not needed tools Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:46:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.214626.0> Precedence: bulk Not Needed, but wonderful to have for me: Stenciling that I did on the white walls. So I also stenciled the floor that has solder drips on it. Hey, I am new. LOL Just love getting those up. Boom box that plays my favorite music soft romantic music Yankee candles burning for a wonderful scent Speaker phone when people call and I can still work New faucet & sprayer that is up high over the double antique soapstone sink Never new our basement would look so good- not all of it it, but I am expanding. Truly NOT NEEDED M-80 Breaker, for me I can crush any piece of glass to 100's of pieces with it!! Goldpaws ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 27 23:38:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:07:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: Howard and Elaine Rubin Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Not needed tools????? start this thread as well. Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Apr27.204137.0> References: <<1998Apr27.114526.0>> Precedence: bulk How about foilers. I find them clumsy and slow. Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 00:39:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:05:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: mos part 2 of Rays Great Adventure Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:47:10 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr25.44710.0> Precedence: bulk Well maybe I forgot to say that Ray got the biggest kick out of yough. glass company. (Ray being our driver with a compass imbedded in his head.....from some irate drivee more than likely)... He got the tour of the plant too, and like myself, never got to see glass made.....I however, have SOME sense of direction and humor, which came in handy when I sensed I was going to die on the mountain.....but I digress...... Most of us came away from the plant with chunks of bizarre looking glass, which while looking strangely interesting, it had the darndest little slivers of glass filaments which embedded themselves just as nicely as a few cactii I have had the displeasure to run into...... but back to the story.... One thing about this neck of the woods was that we were surely an attraction, like my co-traveler described. We drove up a long winding hill with people lookin at us with peculiar expressions....(I imagined they were thinking....."what in blazes is a tour group doing up here, biggest attraction is the lumber mill......") After the road twisted a few more times, Ray, (wrong-way-ray as he is known in some circles), Ray made the judicious decision to turn the bus around, in the aforementioned lumber mill.....They guys at the mill...shaking their heads....waved vigourously to us, and we waved back....we should make the local paper. We sent enough dust into the air to cause another ice age as the two busses turned a giant arc and went down the hill......no mistake it rained for the next 24 hours.... My friend and I took glass classes together 7 years ago, when she decided we needed to find a "relaxing hobby" and the local art center was giving classes, run by a terrific woman, Barb Smith and her husband Bob.) So here we were out in the hill and valley side of Pennsylvania....in search of glass. The bus to Nemacolin resort headed out like any normal tour bus would....with happy go lucky people....honest to pete we drove past houses and a couple still had christmas trees in their windows....I am not sure what this was about, the air is thinner up there. So up the mountain we begin....errr- errr-errr-errr-errr I think I can I think I can....rain trying to ruin our fun.....after about 10 minutes I looked out to the top of this mountain and saw this white shining thing at the top, little did I know it was Nemacolin, which, when I stepped off the bus, it made me think "redrum redrum redrum"....The Shining... The place was such a visual treat, It was filled with treasures which I never would have come into contact with. Ever. One of the greatest treats for me, was looking thought the original Audubon plate book, and in the same area were two Tiffany lamps! There were overstuffed leather chairs and game tables set up so you could enjoy a quiet game or read a book....and this room was just one of the nooks and crannies in this "motel". I could never have imagined those crystal chandeliers, and the ballroom was fantastic. We spent a couple hours wandering the halls, nooks and crannies, sitting spots, beverage areas, drooling (figuratively) over and under the lamps and panels by Tiffany. Where the heck else could a couple of ordinary city folk see these wonders? You can visit it on the web http://www.nwlr.com/ Now after a couple double shots of Baileys on ice I was into the total mind relax thing......and then we boarded the bus. Of course it was pouring rain, and it certainly felt like a 30 degree grade....and we passed several "runnaway truck stops"....which in Philadelphia amounts to a trash truck rolling down the hill and plowing into some parked cars while its trashmen are in the local refreshment center....but I digress again.... After the first "RTS" I felt beads of sweat on my formerly relaxed farhead....(Oh I forgot to mention the smell of burning rubber).....we trundled onward, down down down....tempting fate with Ray in command. And Fate, being the ever loving jokester, spoke to Ray. Actually the entire bus was speaking to Ray......YO RAY YOU ARE GOING BACK UP THE MOUNTAIN.. you see Ray in his infinte wisdom did not have his oars in the water.....and a block before our hotel he just sort of took the wrong exit.... These chants weren't lost on me. I had realized 3/4 of the way DOWN the mountain that the beads of sweat do eventually drip down your face .... I hoped they were kidding until I saw that daggum Christmas tree up in a certain attic window again, at that point I wanted to grip the overhead bars and scream STOP the bus, I want to get off!!!!! But the woman next to me engaged me in conversation of which I have no recall...... Halfway up the mountain the finger of God had removed one of the cement road dividers and Ray seeing his moment of chance made a U-turn...of course I was sure we were going to back up OFF the mountain. And just as we were perpendicular to the road, I imagined a huge truck coming down the mountain, never expecting a renegade tour bus to be smack accross the road. But then I realized, no trucker in his right mind would be on this hill.......So we made it down and when it was time for Ray to make a right turn, the fine citizens of Uniontown could hear a bright blue tour bus hollering in unison: "Make a right Ray"....and he did....and we cheered! Meanwhile, back at the Holiday Inn, the fraternity/sorority party was going strong I guess somewhere.....but I just washed my sweatless face and hit the sheets.... Tommorrow...Fallingwater..... I am sorry if this is long and winded...hey I never say much on the list....appologies to any offended... Maureen (who has a shirt that says "I drove with Ray") and may even cross out the "Saint Christopher" from the bottom of the statue and write "RAY" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 01:13:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:47:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: fibers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:46:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr27.234641.0> References: <<1998Apr27.132844.0>> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk > What is your most valuable handtool. Other than my trusty cutter, couldn't get along without my breaking pliers. Rick http://home.fuse.net/crafts/ updated 4/27/98 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 03:52:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Hand tool Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:15:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.21523.0> Precedence: bulk Seriously, it would have to be my Glastar running pliers. These allow me = to make near impossible breaks. I can almost make right angle breaks = with no trouble at all. Now if I could just keep my cutter perpendicular = to the glass all the way through the score. Linda Campbell ---------- What is your most valuable handtool. Not in $'s but rather in usefullness. If it is adapted , please tell us how, if it's made, please tell us that too. If it was bought, where? Looking forward to the next posts. Nelda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 05:57:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 05:21:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Goldpaws Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gold tone patina finish Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:18:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.41833.0> References: <<1998Apr27.184314.0>> Precedence: bulk Goldpaws wrote: > > I need advice on how to get a gold tone finish on my Impatience with > filigree lamp shade. > ( used quick set solder) > I used antique brass patina on two projects. One looked goldish and the > other was antique looking. > Just like the bottle said. LOL > What I am looking for is a gold or brass finish. > What do you folks use? > Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I fairly new to stained glass. > there's only a few things that can be done. brass patina barely works. it only works if the solder is clean, and if you polish it. after polishing it will sort of look like brass, only fairly faint. copper is shinier, but it's copper. the other method is electro plating, but that's expensive. i would either make it copper, tin the filligree. or make the solder black, and polish the filligree for more contrast. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added and My Updated Shop Photo's ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 07:50:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:08:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Gold tone patina finish Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:05:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.6558.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Goldpaws >I need advice on how to get a gold tone finish on my Impatience with filigree lamp shade. I used antique brass patina on two projects. One looked goldish and the other was antique looking. Just like the bottle said. LOL What I am looking for is a gold or brass finish. What do you folks use?< I use the Antique Bronze patina by Inland. If you only do a quick setting of the patina, it is a dull bronze color. But if you continue to polish the patina onto the solder line, it brightens up considerably. Not as red and coppery as regular Brite Copper patina, but a more ?mellow? brass color. That's the closest I've come to gold or brass. Have you considered using real brass came, or brass-coated lead came, instead of foil? Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 08:20:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:08:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Hand tool Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:05:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.6555.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Nelda: >What is your most valuable handtool. Not in $'s but rather in usefullness.< Exacto knife and my dull knife. Oh so useful for cutting, taking foil off glass for repairs, removing excess grout/cement on mosaics, trimming patterns, trimming up overlap on foiled pieces, etc. The Exacto knife you can purchase anywhere, but my dad made me the dull knife about 20 years ago and I would not trade it for anything. Well, maybe for a beveling system, but not for anything less than that! Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 08:24:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:12:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!TifStyOrig From: TifStyOrig To: gmanning@banet.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Gold tone patina finish Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:11:29 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr28.141129.0> Precedence: bulk What I find works to bring out a shiny brass finish is SimiChrome polish and a good buffing. Of course, that is after I have thoroughly cleaned the piece after soldering. However, over time, the brass shine may "soften" so you may have to do a periodic polish. Diane Manchester Tiffany Styled Originals Delray Beach, FL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 08:43:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:13:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Harley pattern Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:05:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.6552.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Laurean E. Clover" >I have a customer in the making who is a faithful Harley lover. I on the other hand know nil about them. = I am wondering if any of you know of a pattern or pattern book on the market with the logo or a motorcycle? Or maybe can direct me in this venture?< Oh, Lauren. How funny. My brother is a Harley rider, and years ago I did a stained glass portrait of his 'baby'. I still have the pattern. It's just of a Harley - nothing else to distract from the bike. I did the chrome in mirror, and the black leather using rubbly textured black glass. It turned out well. You want a copy? Email me privately. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 08:46:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:15:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: P D RUSS To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:12:27 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr28.141227.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-04-27 23:42:40 EDT, you write: << My favorite tool is this little plastic thingy that crimps my foil for me. (I only do copperfoil work) I've had it for years, does a great job. I think it is called a kwik-crimp. Sells for about $6.00. Susan >> I just bought one for the first time a few months ago hoping to save my poor fingers. But I find I still have to hand crimp after using this thing. Am I doing something wrong? Dianne >^..^< pdruss@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 08:59:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:56:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: 28 panels and value? Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:55:36 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr28.145536.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-04-28 00:37:12 EDT, you write: > Any item is only worth what one can get for it! The raw materials used is > irrelevant to the final cost and the demand. CASE in point....I buy and sell > BEANIE-BABIES...I will not pay over $7.00 for one, but have had high offers > on some...same raw material, same imported crap, but COLLECTABLE and sought > after by those who WANT them.....It is called SUPPLY and DEMAND!!!!! > Howard, YOU collect beanie babies LOL I knew there was a soft side to you LOL Ok so I know there must be money to be made at this time for those silly little things OOps sorry off topic deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 09:11:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:31:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover From: "Laurean E. Clover" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: New helpful tip Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:30:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.13043.0> References: <<1998Apr27.17206.0>> Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool Precedence: bulk Where'd you find it? Seems my eyes have > been getting REALLY bad what with all the work I've been doing on the > computer of late and once I get my new shop set up I'll be needing one! I know most pharmacies have those magnifier strips. Laurean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 09:25:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:39:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Gold tone patina finish Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:38:57 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.13857.0> Precedence: bulk Ask a metal plater (look up in yellow pages or on computer) about plating the lead with a metal that will take a gold finish. Be sure to mention it is a stained glass piece and ask if the chemicals or electrolysis process will effect the colors of the glass. TRY a few test pieces and ask if a "new" batch of chemicals can used first for your piece. Generally a plating of a metal compatible with lead is applied and then another metal is applied (formed) that is compatible with the plated lead. NOTE: this is not a technical dissertation, but a remembrance of the process told to me many years ago. I had asked a palter in Eugene Or about plating a shade for me, and he said he had done a few and no harm to the glass, but wanted the shade for a few weeks, so when he changed the tank chemicals, my shade would be first in the new bath. enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 09:36:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:40:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ...As a Teacher... Conclusion, not yet Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:35:40 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr28.153540.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-04-20 21:58:18 EDT, you write: > ..And I was addressing myself to the Teachers amongst us. I am very > well aware what a Learner wants.... I am still a Learner myself.... > even after 25 years.... As I said before, one treads a fine line.... Well your first letter didn't address JUST the teachers amongst us, it seems you addressed to ALL of bungi for OUR oppinions. I gave mine and I think others felt the same way but were afraid to say so. > Deb...I think you missed the point somewhere. I hope you don't mind > me saying that. SWOOSH !! I guess I must have. deb who thought about just going back to lurk but wants to show others that we are not forced to lurk just because we think others will not like our oppinions and make us feel inferior because oppinions are what most of us will learn by ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 11:01:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:18:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: post.queensu.ca!seguinr From: Rachelle Seguin To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: brass patina Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:26:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.72617.0> Precedence: bulk Hello I am very new to the list and to stained glass. I have made a prairie = lamp and have an antiqued brass base that I purchased for it. I have = been following the discussion regarding patina. My instructor suggested = that I mix black patina and copper patina in equal parts to achieve a = brass finish but I have not yet tried this. Does anyone have any = experience with doing this? Rachelle Seguin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 11:30:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:26:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover From: "Laurean E. Clover" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: 28 panels and value? Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:31:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.4319.0> References: <<1998Apr28.145536.0>> Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool Precedence: bulk The beanie baby thing threw me too! Laurean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 11:36:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:26:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "DMR74" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: soft side (was 28 panels) now diversion Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:26:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.32615.0> Precedence: bulk Gradual diversion from the glass topic..... I collect Beanies primarily for re-sale! Because I DO NOT have to own any specific one, I am content to buy for price and re-sell. I do have a lot of collectibles, phones, clocks, firearms, Lenox (old), lamp bases, stamps, coins and so forth. I have come to grips with not being able to take anything with me and I do not think there will be a u-haul attached to the hearse, either. From what I have seen, no pockets in a shroud, too. I have SLOWLY been liquidating some of my "stuff" for a lot more than I paid to acquire them. Dumping money into the stockmarket....and even winning a few times. not morbid, just a realist!!!!! enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 13:08:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:18:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: moonlightstudio.com!babs From: Babs To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Help please.. 1800's window Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:08:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.9854.0> Precedence: bulk Hi.. Am still fairly new to this group and have appreicated all the advice I have seen posted back and forth among folks.. I have been asked to take apart and re-lead an early 1800's window.. The glass is in absolutely lovely pristine condition.. the lead however is not. It is going to go into my sister's new house above the front door. I am still pretty new to restoration.. Have done some limited work.. What I am wondering.. what do I use to take off the putty, or whatever had been used.. and to begin to take off the old lead so that it can be reworked.. etc.. Advice would be appreciated.. Thank you.. Barb babs@moonlightstudio.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 14:11:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Help please.. 1800's window Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 13:17:40 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1998Apr28.9854.0>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > Hi.. > Am still fairly new to this group and have appreicated all the advice I > have seen posted back and forth among folks.. > I have been asked to take apart and re-lead an early 1800's window.. > The glass is in absolutely lovely pristine condition.. the lead however > is not. > It is going to go into my sister's new house above the front door. > I am still pretty new to restoration.. Have done some limited work.. > What I am wondering.. what do I use to take off the putty, or > whatever had been used.. and to begin to take off the old lead so > that it can be reworked.. etc.. > Advice would be appreciated.. Thank you.. > Barb > babs@moonlightstudio.com there was an article a couple of months ago in 'glass craftsman' about a restoration of old leaded windows on a riverboat that was being restored. basically, what they did is soak the windows in a CLR solution for about 6 hours, which removed lots of the crud and loosened the putty enough to get all the glass out. CLR shouldn't affect the glass, although if it were me i'd do some testing first. regards, charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 18:41:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:19:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!NCScoutr From: NCScoutr To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NON-glass to Carol R. Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:14:33 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr29.11433.0> Precedence: bulk From: Self To: glass-request@bungi.com Subject: NON-GLASS to: Carol J. Rochnowski Send reply to: ncscoutr@beachaccess.com Date sent: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:41:47 -5 Dear Carol J. Rochnowski, Will you please e-mail me your e-mail address?? I would love to get in touch with you offline! V T Phelps Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. * Email * ICQ#:4862021 * WWPager * EmailExpress <4862021@pager.mirabilis.com> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 19:08:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:37:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:31:21 EDT Message-ID: <1998Apr29.13121.0> Precedence: bulk Well, when I first tried to use my qwik crimp, it was too tight for glass to go in!!! So I took a small piece of glass with unground edges, no foil on it, and forced it in. Then I pulled it in and out to shave off a little bit of the plastic. Then it was perfect. Since I have been using it, my foil is burnished to perfection. I also have one of glastars foiling machines. I have not been able to get the hang of this thing. Anyone had luck with these? Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 19:35:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:40:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp21.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:soft side (was 28 panels) now diversion Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:17:30 -0400 Message-ID: <199804290017.UAA00275@violeta.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998Apr28.32615.0>> Precedence: bulk Howard and Elaine Rubin twistes the bytes to say: Howard> Because I DO NOT have to own any specific one, I am content to buy for price Howard> and re-sell. Lord Kaynes used to say that the issue is not whether someone is stupid enough to buy stock at a high price, but whether he or she can find somebody more stupid who is willing to pay a higher price for it. I guess that is the secret to be able to succeed in the collectibles market. -- Daniel M. German "Science can be esoteric The Economist -> technology has to be pragmatic" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 19:44:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: snet.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: "'glass list'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD72F0.DAD2AF80" Subject: Air Brush Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:58:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.175823.0> Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD72F0.DAD2AF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Folks, Does anyone know where I can purchase, an inexpensive Airbrush that is = powered by canned Air. I throught I read about one here on the list = about 6 months ago. =20 Thank you in advance, Tim Byrnes =20 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD72F0.DAD2AF80 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgIBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADACAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGUAAAAAAAAAtTvCwCx3EBqhvAgA KypWwhUAAAAua3jrobvPEZ/kREVTVAAAZIMAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNz ICBsaXN0AFNNVFAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEA AAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAAA4AAAAnZ2xhc3Mg IGxpc3QnAAAAAgELMAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpHTEFTU0BCVU5HSS5DT00AAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6 AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAIKNgEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEI AQSAAQAKAAAAQWlyIEJydXNoAEADAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcEABwAFQA6ABcAAgBdAQEggAMADgAAAM4H BAAcABUAMgAbAAIAWQEBCYABACEAAAA4NENCMzE3RkUyREVEMTExOUZFODQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMAAH BwEDkAYAtAIAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCAsbdKEnO9 AR4AcAABAAAACgAAAEFpciBCcnVzaAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9cxJKln8xy4ze4hHRn+hERVNU AAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAARAAAAdGJ5cm5lc0BzbmV0Lm5ldAAAAAAD AAYQxUxqyAMABxCiAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASElGT0xLUyxET0VTQU5ZT05FS05PV1dIRVJFSUNB TlBVUkNIQVNFLEFOSU5FWFBFTlNJVkVBSVJCUlVTSFRIQVRJU1BPV0VSRURCWUNBTk5FREFJUklU SFJPVUdIVElSRUFEQQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAEkBAABFAQAA+AEAAExaRnV+so9b/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesC gwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzP3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2QKA BwqBDbELYG5nMTAzDxRQCwoUUQvxIEhpIGJGBvBrcywKhQqFICxEbweRAHB5AiBlIMhrbm8H4Hdo BJAbgOhJIGMDkXAIcBFxEbCKLBshIAuAZXhwCfAFAJB2G4BBaXJicuB1c2ggdBGABUAEAIccoBvA HBFkIGJ5HGJ3G3AfsB5BLhxBHtADYHXcZ2gFQBxQFhBhH7ABoH8IYAVAG2IcAwIgHsEbgGxnBAAF QCHkNiAEYAIwaLkbEWdvIKAaVhpmVBGAaG5rIBtQdR1xGyBkenYAcGMdIBpmJcAHcCD8QnkEoAeQ Jyco3xpXKn8LKdgVMQAscAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwIGIBLxFzvQFAAAgwIGIBLxFz vQEeAD0AAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA06M= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD72F0.DAD2AF80-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 20:16:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:45:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hand tool Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:37:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.143728.0> Precedence: bulk I'd have to say my Toyo pistol grip cutter... Anything else is either an accessory or a luxury... You work at your cutting skill and ya wont need many other tools.. Byron... -----Original Message----- From: fibers To: glass@ bungie.com Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 11:11 AM Subject: Hand tool >The discussions on this group is so interesting and informative that I >would like to ask another question. > >What is your most valuable handtool. Not in $'s but rather in >usefullness. If it is adapted , please tell us how, if it's made, please >tell us that too. If it was bought, where? >Looking forward to the next posts. >Nelda > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 28 21:46:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:17:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: pkelly To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: RE: Airbrush Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:19:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.181953.0> Precedence: bulk I saw the airbrush Tim is referring to in the Hobby Lobby chain store. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 29 02:30:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fuse.net!pebble From: Rick Lasita To: Tim Byrnes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Air Brush Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:57:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Apr28.235743.0> References: <<1998Apr28.175823.0>> Organization: Window Art GLass Studio Precedence: bulk Tim Byrnes wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Does anyone know where I can purchase, an inexpensive Airbrush that is powered by canned Air. I throught I read about one here on the list about 6 months ago. > > Thank you in advance, > Tim Byrnes > > > Tim, you ought to be able to find what you are looking for at any hobby/model shop in your area, and I bet Walmart probably has them too. Rick http://home.fuse.net/crafts/ > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 29 02:48:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 01:06:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Airbrush Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:44:17 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Apr29.94417.0> Precedence: bulk In UK we recommend the abrasive air brush kit made by Badger wchich comes with a can of propellant and can also be run from a mini compressor. I think Badger is a North American company, so the same model is probably available through any airbrush supplies shop if your stained glass retailer does not carry it. Elizabeth & Sam Law (Bournemouth Stained Glass) 790 Wimborne Road Bournemouth Dorset BH9 2DX England http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 29 03:00:22 1998 Return-Path: