From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 03:44:13 1998
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Subject: Re: a couple of questions and a big Thank you
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:42:56 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-01 00:43:49 EST, you write:

<< question #1 can anyone point me to a couple of good stained glass
 web pages?
 
 question #2 besides delphi are there any other large mail order supply
 companies?
  >>

Jeremy:  I missed Howard Rubin's web page in the list I sent you.  He is THE
Tiffany Lamp expert.  Don't miss his page at
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 06:06:46 1998
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Subject: Re: a couple of questions and a big Thank you
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:05:40 -0500
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>question #2 besides delphi are there any other large mail order supply
>companies?

Don't forget about Franklin Art Glass in your own backyard!  They are a
full scale retailer as well as wholesaler and will ship within a days time
to places in Ohio.  They are located in German Village in Columbus and
their 800# is   1-800-848-7683.  I have had nothing but courteous service
in the 12 years I have been dealing with them.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
Ohio

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 08:03:39 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
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Subject: Re: a couple of questions and a big Thank you
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 11:00:56 -0500
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Jeremy Hopkins wrote:
> 
> first off Thank You to all who responded to my question about shipping
> glass. i have not decided how i am going to get it here, but someday i
> will. question #1 can anyone point me to a couple of good stained glass
> web pages?
> 
> question #2 besides delphi are there any other large mail order supply
> companies?
> 
> thank you for your help, of the seven mailing lists i belong to for
> other hobbies this one is by far the most curteous(sp.) and helpful.
> keep up the good work .
> 
> --
> Jeremy W. Hopkins
>       KC8GWH
> http://www.toltbbs.com/~jhop/
>  442.850 + mhz in nw ohio
> ----
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not to toot my own horn, but you can go to my page
http://www.geocities.com/paris/1141 also my links page will answer your
second question.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A
Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 08:55:25 1998
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
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Subject: Re: a couple of questions and a big Thank you
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 11:56:17 -0500
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Subject:     Re: a couple of questions and a big Thank you
Sent:        2/1/98 11:52 AM
To:          glass bungi line, glass@bungi.com

 Jeremy Hopkins wrote:
>question #1 can anyone point me to a couple of good stained glass
>web pages?

www.aiap.com/amazon (Int'l Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.)
www.artglassworld.com
www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm (books, magazines) 
www.bungi.com/glass/igga/suppsupp.htm
www.bungi.com/glass/patterns
www.dodgestudio.com
www.geocites.com/paris/1141/links.htm
www.glasscrafters.com
www.glasspaterns.com
www.hotglass.com/links.html
www.islandnet.com/~jbrooks/dilhtm
www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
www.rainbow.co.nz/karal/Index.html
www.rec.crafts.glass
www.spectrumglass.com
www.stainedglassbiz.com
www.stainedglasswarehouse.com/
www.summitstudio.com
www.suresite.com/or/g/glassguri
www.voyager.net/delphiglass
www.warner-criv.too


>question #2 besides delphi are there any other large mail order supply
companies?

Warner Crivellaro, last on above list!

Enjoy, Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 09:12:34 1998
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From: "Wallace, Paul" <glass@nobleco.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Clean Soldering Iron Tip
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:09:51 -0800
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>Dipping the soldering iron in most any flux is a good way to clean
>the tip but generates a lot of undesirable fumes. A word of caution-
>


Most of our students who have tried to clean the soldering tips by dipping
then in flux have ended up buying new tips!  The tips are generally plated
with iron (i think) the flux will eventually eat through the iron then bye
bye tip.  We just use a damp sponge or if it really gets cruddy and needs
re-tinned we rub it on a sal-ammoniac block.

Bumblebee Stained Glass
Caldwell, Ohio

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 09:18:18 1998
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From: "Wallace, Paul" <glass@nobleco.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: shipping glass
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:16:38 -0800
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>Jeremy Hopkins wrote:
>>
>> Hello I'm new to this list.  My grandfather just gave me all of his
>> stained glass equipment, he shipped me the tools last week, he lives in
>> florida And i live in ohio, he has aprox. 175 lbs. of glass that i need
>> to get to ohio, anyone have any suggestions?  Right now i cannot afford
>> to drive there and pick it up.
>> --
>> Jeremy W. Hopkins
>>       KC8GWH


When we ship we usually take the items to a place called Mailboxes etc.
There are probably similar places all over though.  They will wrab & box &
ship the items for a fee.  They do a good job & if it does get broken they
take care of it.

Bumblebee Stained Glass
Caldwell, Ohio

Paul
KB8PZQ

147.285 MHZ

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 10:52:49 1998
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Subject: Re: shipping glass
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:50:12 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-01 12:18:39 EST, you write:

<< When we ship we usually take the items to a place called Mailboxes etc >>

The ones around here ship UPS.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 11:39:23 1998
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From: "Tomasz Bielinski" <witraze@qdnet.pl>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: new stained and fused glass site- please take a look!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <witraze@post.qdnet.pl>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:37:41 +0000
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Dear Bunginians,

I happy to inform you that our new, improved homepage is 
now under new address : htpp://www.polbox.com/w/witraze/    
The site is about stained and architectural glass.The new page has 
many pictures of glass works (leaded and fused) and will be updated 
as often as new interesting works will be executed.

Thank you for updating the link to our site,     

best regards
Tomasz
==========================================
Tomasz Bielinski - WITRAZE s.c.
STAINED & ARCHITECTURAL GLASS
e-mail: witraze@qdnet.pl
http://www.polbox.com/w/witraze
Visit our HOMEPAGE 
tel/fax: 48 (22) 872-04-17
=============================================
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 12:38:20 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
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Subject: Re: Clean Soldering Iron Tip
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:37:04 -0500 (EST)
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Kitchen (or cellulose) sponges are made from wood fiber.  Cellulose also
contains a property that will inherently "bind" when broken down through
heat application.  When this happens "gunk" will stick to your soldering
iron tip.

At 05:09 AM 1/31/98 EST, you wrote:
>I need to ask why not a kitchen sponge?  
Barbara Snell
Cornell University

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 14:17:06 1998
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Subject: Re: a couple of questions and a big Thank you
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:14:30 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-01 11:03:57 EST, morn@nac.net writes:

<< not to toot my own horn, but you can go to my page >>

Mike , who would ever accuse you of "TOOTING" your own horn???LOL.Not I that's
for sure. Your web page has been quite helpful,thanks....Judy
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 14:37:12 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: Dozens of glass workshops
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Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:43:21 +0000
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Coming up in the near future are dozens of workshops throughout the 
U.S. and elsewhere ... we just added a bunch of them to the "Events" 
button at http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/  Check 'em out! One of them 
might be just what you need ...

We also heard from Howard Shaw at James Hetley & Co., Ltd in London 
... and have added their new web site to their listings in the online 
Sources Guide. Hetley's now included in a wider range of supply 
categories, too ... we didn't know!  But now their listings are up to 
date.  Be sure to check out their web site at 
http://www.hetleys.co.uk/ ... it's one of the nicest, cleanest 
designs we've seen in the glass world ... and packed with great 
information and images of glass, too.

Enjoy!

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 15:25:50 1998
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 Dear Friends,

 Please add me back to your list.

Thank you,
 Tim Byrnes

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 18:47:18 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Foil Width
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:45:41 -0500 (EST)
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Good Evening Group...
        I am working on a panel that is 14" X 19" in foil.  The glass is all
clear in different textures... ripple, seeded and glue chip.  

Here is my dilemma....  The only foil that I have in my shop that is black
backed is 3/16".  I have foiled two pieces to see how they work with the
foil and the crimped edge is very narrow on the outside of the glass.....  I
am having no trouble with foiling however it occurred to me that such a thin
solder line may not be strong enough....
        Should I go out tomorrow and buy wider foil?
        It is an Art Nouveau piece with lots of long thin strips of glass,
lots of inside curves and many small pieces in the center of the panel.  I
do plan on running two pieces of copper wire for added strength from top to
bottom through the piece, each one about 5 inches in from the outside edge.
        I want to use the black backed foil as I plan to put black patina on
the solder line.....       Your thoughts are very much appreciated....
thanks ahead of time.
Barbara Snell
Cornell University

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 19:28:40 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Foil Width
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 22:29:33 -0500
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Barbara wrote:
>        I am working on a panel that is 14" X 19" in foil.  The glass is all
>clear in different textures... ripple, seeded and glue chip.  
>
>Here is my dilemma....  The only foil that I have in my shop that is black
>backed is 3/16".
> It is an Art Nouveau piece with lots of long thin strips of glass,
>lots of inside curves and many small pieces in the center of the panel.  I
>do plan on running two pieces of copper wire for added strength from top to
>bottom through the piece, each one about 5 inches in from the outside edge.

Barbara, your 3/16" foil might be too narrow, especially for the ripple. 
You can mix foils; probably some 7/32" would be a good idea for the 
thicker glass.
Also, my understanding of reinforcing is that it should run from edge to 
edge.

Suzanne

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X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Foil Width
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:43:52 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb1.114352.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello, Barbara....usually 7/32 foil is used. For the ripples, for certain!

if the glass is opalescent you do not need black back as the inside of the
foil will not show.
for chip and pastel cathedrals most CERTAINLY black back

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 19:58:47 1998
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X-Path: snet.net!tbyrnes
From: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@snet.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Foil Width
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:55:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb1.17553.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 Hi Barbara,
      I would use a wider foil. Take a few pieces of scrape with you and =
ask for some assistance from your supplier, at least you will have the =
pcs. of glass with you to compare to the foil.  This is my 2 cents.

Tim Byrnes
QM STAINED GLASS STUDIO

----------
From: 	Barbara[SMTP:bjs10@cornell.edu]
Sent: 	Sunday, February 01, 1998 4:45 PM
To: 	glass@bungi.com
Subject: 	Foil Width

Good Evening Group...
        I am working on a panel that is 14" X 19" in foil.  The glass is =
all
clear in different textures... ripple, seeded and glue chip. =20

Here is my dilemma....  The only foil that I have in my shop that is =
black
backed is 3/16".  I have foiled two pieces to see how they work with the
foil and the crimped edge is very narrow on the outside of the =
glass.....  I
am having no trouble with foiling however it occurred to me that such a =
thin
solder line may not be strong enough....
        Should I go out tomorrow and buy wider foil?
        It is an Art Nouveau piece with lots of long thin strips of =
glass,
lots of inside curves and many small pieces in the center of the panel.  =
I
do plan on running two pieces of copper wire for added strength from top =
to
bottom through the piece, each one about 5 inches in from the outside =
edge.
        I want to use the black backed foil as I plan to put black =
patina on
the solder line.....       Your thoughts are very much appreciated....
thanks ahead of time.
Barbara Snell
Cornell University

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  1 21:06:18 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: new stained and fused glass site- please take a look!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:02:37 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.5237.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-01 14:40:13 EST, you write:

<< htpp://www.polbox.com/w/witraze/   >>


Hi All,

Actually, I tried to copy and paste this and it wouldn't go in because it
should be "http", not "htpp" so if you update your links, don't just paste
this one!

Susie
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 03:08:13 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CraftSite
From: CraftSite@aol.com
To: CraftWeb@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Arts/Crafts Sales Agent is looking for new products to handle
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 05:34:32 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.103432.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello, Fellow Crafters!

If this message has reached you mistake, please accept our apology. This is a
one-time message and will not be repeated.

We are seeking to ally with artists and handicrafters who are interested in
having their works or handicraft specialties marketed and promoted on a
strictly commission basis. We market and sell to numerous wholesale and retail
outlets throughout the Northwest U.S.  We also have an extensive web site
where we will construct and provide you a free web page and hosting for your
items. We can also provide you with the capability of accepting credit cards
for your goods on our secured server if you do not currently accept credit
cards as your fulfillment center.

If this is of interest to you and you would like to know more about  our
service, just send us an e-mail or feel free to view one of our mirror sites
located at: 

http://members.aol.com/CraftSite/crafts.htm

Thank you for your time and Best Wishes for Your Success!

Jean & Fred
The Manufacturer's Edge
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 04:13:25 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CraftSite
From: CraftSite@aol.com
To: CraftWeb@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Arts/Crafts Sales Agent is looking for new products to handle
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 05:13:26 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.101326.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello, Fellow Crafters!

If this message has reached you mistake, please accept our apology. This is a
one-time message and will not be repeated.

We are seeking to ally with artists and handicrafters who are interested in
having their works or handicraft specialties marketed and promoted on a
strictly commission basis. We market and sell to numerous wholesale and retail
outlets throughout the Northwest U.S.  We also have an extensive web site
where we will construct and provide you a free web page and hosting for your
items. We can also provide you with the capability of accepting credit cards
for your goods on our secured server if you do not currently accept credit
cards as your fulfillment center.

If this is of interest to you and you would like to know more about  our
service, just send us an e-mail or feel free to view one of our mirror sites
located at: 

http://members.aol.com/CraftSite/crafts.htm

Thank you for your time and Best Wishes for Your Success!

Jean & Fred
The Manufacturer's Edge
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 04:46:12 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: 3x within 3 hours?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:53:17 +0000
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> If this message has reached you mistake, please accept our apology. This is a
> one-time message and will not be repeated.

Not quite.  This is the third one this morning. I looked at your 
site, then got a message that I hadn't looked at it yet. ( ? )



Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
Membership    http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm
Members' work http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm
Sources Guide http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm
Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 04:47:09 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Foil Width
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:46:39 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19980202075143.323f3c40@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks all for you tips re: foil width....
        The glass is clear not opalescent so I am going to my supplier today
for the foil.......

At 07:43 PM 2/1/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hello, Barbara....usually 7/32 foil is used. For the ripples, for certain!
>
>if the glass is opalescent you do not need black back as the inside of the
>foil will not show.
>for chip and pastel cathedrals most CERTAINLY black back
>
Barbara Snell
Cornell University

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 04:47:11 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Foil Width
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:46:37 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19980202075141.323fa16e@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Gee Thanks  Suzanne,
                     That makes a lot more sense.

>Also, my understanding of reinforcing is that it should run from edge to 
>edge.
>
>Suzanne
>
Barbara Snell
Cornell University

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 05:21:16 1998
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X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: foil width
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 08:18:22 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980202081820.00731888@mail.bright.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I know this is too late for the problem that was being questioned, but I
just wanted to get my two cents in.  I use 3/16" foil exclusively in all my
work because I like the delicate solder line.  I do reinforce as necessary,
but I don't think that you have to use 7/32" in all cases.  I have to admit
that on ripple glass 7/32" might work better, but it totally depends on the
thickness of the ripple.  When I did the Indian Chief with the ripple in
the feathers, 7/32" was way too much for places where the glass was a
little thinner than the other places.  And in a piece 14" x 19", I don't
think it really matters that much.  It is not a big heavy piece that is
going to be weighed down by lots of glass and solder.  I would have gone
ahead with the 3/16" foil and on the ripple, just used it twice in places
that were necessary.

IMHO

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
Ohio

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 06:28:31 1998
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X-Path: cape.com!sjb
From: Susan Jordan Bennett <sjb@cape.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Q about layout guides
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:22:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.42248.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

For a layout guide on round and oval pieces I have always used a piece
of lead U came and secured it into place with push pins. Do any of you
use a different product to hold your round designs together as you work
on them? I feel as if I'm wasting a lot of lead came with my method.

Susan

Shoestring Shipyard
www.shoestringshipyard.com
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 06:33:58 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alweis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: Glass Beadmakers' Gathering
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:17:22 +0000
Message-ID: <m0xzKhQ-0000fYC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Just posted in MAY under "Events" on http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ 
... don't miss it if you're interested in glass bead making:

May 7-10, 1998 
                                   Beadmakers: "Echoes of Ancient
                                   Glass" The Society of Glass
                                   Beadmakers' Sixth Annual Gathering,
                                   "Echoes of Ancient Glass," is
                                   slated for Corning New York and
                                   includes pre- and post-conference
                                   glass beadmaking workshops,
                                   problem-solving seminar,
                                   pre-conference designing and
                                   business workshops, handmade glass
                                   bead bazaar, lectures, commercial
                                   vendors, demonstrations,
                                   open-torch. Related events: Society
                                   of Glass Beadmakers Bead Bazaar
                                   (Radisson Hotel, Saturday May 9,
                                   1998 - 10am-6pm, admission free);
                                   Handmade Glass Beads Silent Aution
                                   (at the Bead Bazaar, Radisson
                                   Hotel, May 9, 1998 - 10am-5pm);
                                   Contemporary Art Glass Jewelry and
                                   Bead Show (Rockwell Museum, May 1
                                   to June 28; Reception, May 8,
                                   5:30pm); "Echoes of Ancient Glass"
                                   All Members Glass Bead Show
                                   (Radisson Hotel, May 1 to May 31);
                                   Big Bead Bash, Sculptural Glass
                                   Bead Show (at Whitehouse Books, May
                                   1 to June 7, Reception, May 9, 7
                                   pm); Handmade Glass Bead Designer
                                   Showcase (at Fibers and Fantasy,
                                   May 2-June 7, reception May 9, 6
                                   pm). To attend the conference, you
                                   must be a member of the Society of
                                   Glass Beadmakers; you may join at
                                   the time you sign up for the
                                   conference. For a complete
                                   conference packet, contact: Carol
                                   Bugarin, 33 Sleeper Street #107,
                                   Boston MA 02210. Phone: (617)
                                   542-0422.

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 07:02:23 1998
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X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass
From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Arts/Crafts Sales Agent is looking for new products to handle
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:01:42 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802021501.KAA12893@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jean & Fred
The Manufacturer's Edge
wrote,


>Hello, Fellow Crafters!
>
>If this message has reached you mistake, please accept our apology. This is a
>one-time message and will not be repeated.
>
 very polite but............more than one time here also.

And I was wondering why someone looking for handcrafted items would call
themselves the Manufacturer's Edge? Doesn't that mean something other than 
creating? Think webster says "produce mechanically".. And we all know what
mechanically means!
They even sell beanie babies!

Just a Monday morning thought.


my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 07:12:37 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Foil Width
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:10:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.5105.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19980201215038.37d7bd68@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Barbara wrote:
> 
> Good Evening Group...
>         I am working on a panel that is 14" X 19" in foil.  The glass is all
> clear in different textures... ripple, seeded and glue chip.
> 
> Here is my dilemma....  The only foil that I have in my shop that is black
> backed is 3/16".  I have foiled two pieces to see how they work with the
> foil and the crimped edge is very narrow on the outside of the glass.....  I
> am having no trouble with foiling however it occurred to me that such a thin
> solder line may not be strong enough....
>         Should I go out tomorrow and buy wider foil?
>         It is an Art Nouveau piece with lots of long thin strips of glass,
> lots of inside curves and many small pieces in the center of the panel.  I
> do plan on running two pieces of copper wire for added strength from top to
> bottom through the piece, each one about 5 inches in from the outside edge.
>         I want to use the black backed foil as I plan to put black patina on
> the solder line.....       Your thoughts are very much appreciated....
> thanks ahead of time.
> Barbara Snell
> Cornell University
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


thin solder lines can be ok with zinc came going around the border. and
since it has some inside curves it can be strong enough. you may want to
use 7/32 or 1/4" foil, for the ripples or thicker glass otherwise it
will be way to thin. also consider the gap factor. the pieces may not
line up perfectly, though even with that said the thin foil could still
pull away. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 07:14:55 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: my site has been updated
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:13:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.5132.0>
References: <<1998Feb1.114352.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

ok, i just updated my site for anyone who follows it. i added another 22
new links. 
7 new projects added (though alot of them are on the simple side). the
new pictures are much larger to look at.

and i also have my updated shop pictures. the shop pictures are larger
and clearer, and there is a better description of the shop.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 07:46:25 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: Last new workshop today
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:52:34 +0000
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

... promise! This'll be the last note today <s> ... but this workshop 
was just posted to http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ and we thought it 
was a really interesting way to arrange things. It's under "Events" 
and "April":

April 18-19, 1998 
                                     Self-taught Workshop 
                                     with Volunteer Instructors 

                                     Bring your own glass and tools.
                                     Come and do beads, marbles, and
                                     lampworking for the weekend. You
                                     don't have to teach, you can just
                                     come and hang out and learn a
                                     bunch. We do need a few
                                     volunteers to show things you
                                     have learned in other workshops
                                     and to share your knowledge with
                                     those of us who would love to see
                                     your demos. It you need glasses
                                     and limited tools, we have them
                                     here. We'll supply the place, the
                                     fuels and the burners. You'll do
                                     the rest. We've got 12 spots for
                                     torches. We need ideas for what
                                     you want to see. We'll let you
                                     know more about what and who will
                                     be demo-ing when we hear who is
                                     going to be there (you need to
                                     let us know.) Sounds like fun!
                                     $40.00 fee. Enrollments are
                                     limited. Reservations are
                                     required and the earlier, the
                                     better. A Touch Of Glass, 421
                                     Haywood Road, Ashville NC 28806.
                                     Phone: (704) 258-2749.

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 08:03:57 1998
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X-Path: lobo.net!exotic
From: Scott Adams <exotic@lobo.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: foil width
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:02:35 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb1.9235.0>
References: <<3.0.32.19980202081820.00731888@mail.bright.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Exotic Edibles of Edgewood
Precedence: bulk

I have found that  using the 7/32" on thick and ripple produces an
uneven line, myself, but I want the seurity of the thick foil, so where
the foil looks too thick, I just trim it with an exeacto blade.  Gives
me control over the wdth of my solder line on irregular thickness glass.
glasschic wrote:
> 
> I know this is too late for the problem that was being questioned, but I
> just wanted to get my two cents in.  I use 3/16" foil exclusively in all my
> work because I like the delicate solder line.  I do reinforce as necessary,
> but I don't think that you have to use 7/32" in all cases.  I have to admit
> that on ripple glass 7/32" might work better, but it totally depends on the
> thickness of the ripple.  When I did the Indian Chief with the ripple in
> the feathers, 7/32" was way too much for places where the glass was a
> little thinner than the other places.  And in a piece 14" x 19", I don't
> think it really matters that much.  It is not a big heavy piece that is
> going to be weighed down by lots of glass and solder.  I would have gone
> ahead with the 3/16" foil and on the ripple, just used it twice in places
> that were necessary.
> 
> IMHO
> 
> Garden of Glass
> Joyce Moran
> Ohio
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 08:30:35 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!TifStyOrig
From: TifStyOrig@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Q about layout guides
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:25:26 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.162526.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

My local supplier had a great tip about using guides for round designs - he
suggested to use the brass round rings made for reinforcing the bottom of
round lampshades.  They come in a variety of sizes.  Also, try using the
wooden round rings found in craft stores to hold embroidery.  Just a couple of
ideas.  

Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
Delray Beach, FL
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 08:30:53 1998
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X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy
From: Carl Childers <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Mike's Projects
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:37:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.6373.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

Every time I visit Mike Savad's pages, I start to think that I should
hang up the old soldering iron. The Azure box - WOW I thought the Fish
Lamp was complicated.
And you have a day job too??

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 08:36:50 1998
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From: DMR74@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: new stained and fused glass site- please take a look!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:48:08 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.15488.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

susie I have found if you just copy and paste everything after http// you will
usually be safe at getting site to come up
deb
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 08:37:18 1998
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X-Path: DEAN.MED.UFL.EDU!cmccall
From: "Candice McCall" <cmccall@DEAN.MED.UFL.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Clean Soldering Iron Tip
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:20:49 EST5EDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Dean's Office, College of Medicine
Precedence: bulk

When using flux, I pour a small amount into an 
empty film container. I place this film container 
into an aerosol can top which has the hole in the 
center that is perfect for holding the film 
container upright and in-place. I dip my 
soldering tip into this occasionally to clean it 
and therefore don't neutralize the entire bottle 
of flux. It works great for me.

When you are ready to put your flux away for the 
next session of soldering, just put the film 
container top onto the film container and it's 
safe from accidental spills...

Candice McCall
Gainesville, Florida
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 08:41:29 1998
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X-Path: flash.net!artglass
From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Tiffany lamps
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:39:44 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.13944.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: The Ivory Express
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
Just wanted to thank you, Howard, for your info. on identifying Tiffany
Lamps.  I'll try to scan a picture of it and see if it helps.  I am most
interested to find out some background on the lamp and shade.  It has no
residue from foil so that's one plus. The only thing I could find was a
small soldered loop on the bottom row of the shade.  Any help?
Dianne
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 08:58:39 1998
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From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Art/Craft Shows
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:50:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.25043.0>
References: <<1998Jan28.15022.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool
Precedence: bulk

Hi All!
	I am contemplating the purchase of a new soldering iron,
and am specifically looking at the "Inland Autofeed Soldering Iron".
Have any of you purchased this yet?  I think it looks good for foiling
work, but am unsure about lead. Other than that, I am wondering about
an inexpensive good soldering iron.  TIA!

Laurean
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 08:59:14 1998
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From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: cleaning soldering tips
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:56:36 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.15636.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: The Ivory Express
Precedence: bulk

Your idea was great Candice, on cleaning soldering tips.  I have used
everything from sal ammoniac to sponges(which, because of rusting, I
have replaced more iron holders than I care to remember).  The best
little product I have found is a Hakko Tip Cleaner.  It is a little
container with some brass wool coated with flux. It's a great and I
won't even have a sponge anymore.
Dianne
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 09:42:36 1998
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From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: puttying
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:03:45 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.3345.0>
References: <<1998Jan28.8126.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool
Precedence: bulk

Hi!
	Me again,  another question regarding puttying.  Is it 
neccesary to putty a window if its not going to be exposed to the
elements?  

Laurean

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 10:03:04 1998
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From: sue_vershum_at_umad-maize@athgway.ath.umich.edu
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: cleaning soldering tips 
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 12:57:26 -0500
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Where did you purchase this at? Cost?

Sue
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: cleaning soldering tips 
From:    <glass@bungi.com > at internet-mail
Date:    2/2/98  9:56 AM

Your idea was great Candice, on cleaning soldering tips.  I have used
everything from sal ammoniac to sponges(which, because of rusting, I
have replaced more iron holders than I care to remember).  The best
little product I have found is a Hakko Tip Cleaner.  It is a little
container with some brass wool coated with flux. It's a great and I
won't even have a sponge anymore.
Dianne
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 10:27:57 1998
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X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Inland Autofeed Iron
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 13:24:49 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980202132448.00736444@mail.bright.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

The only thing I have found the Inland Autofeed soldering Iron good for is
spot soldering lampshades.  It is much too slow for soldering panels and
the angled tip isn't easy to work with if you are used to the straight one.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
Ohio

At 10:50 AM 2/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi All!
>	I am contemplating the purchase of a new soldering iron,
>and am specifically looking at the "Inland Autofeed Soldering Iron".
>Have any of you purchased this yet?  I think it looks good for foiling
>work, but am unsure about lead. Other than that, I am wondering about
>an inexpensive good soldering iron.  TIA!
>
>Laurean
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 10:52:29 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Q about layout guides
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:34:13 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.183413.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.42248.0@?>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Feb2.42248.0@?>, Susan Jordan Bennett <sjb@cape.com>
writes
>For a layout guide on round and oval pieces I have always used a piece
>of lead U came and secured it into place with push pins. Do any of you
>use a different product to hold your round designs together as you work
>on them? I feel as if I'm wasting a lot of lead came with my method.
>
>Susan
Susan,
I use a large (in relation to the panel) piece of 2mm or 3 mm (single or
double strength, I guess you would call it) glass.  I cut it to the
outside of the perimeter line, place it and secure it into place with
bits of scrap lead came and horseshoe nails at the two corners and near
the end of the curves.  I normally only cut a third of a circle when
doing this, so most often I require two of these.

It works both with leaded and copperfoiled panels (for me of course!)

steve

-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 10:53:04 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: puttying
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:41:58 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.184158.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.3345.0@?>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Feb2.3345.0@?>, Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com> writes
>Hi!
>       Me again,  another question regarding puttying.  Is it 
>neccesary to putty a window if its not going to be exposed to the
>elements?  
>
Laurean,
It keeps the glass from rattling for one thing.  It makes the whole
window more rigid.  It keeps you from seeing the edges of the glass
within the came.  Probably lots of other things too!   :-)

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 11:25:58 1998
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From: sue_vershum_at_umad-maize@athgway.ath.umich.edu
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Chess Boards
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 14:20:55 -0500
Message-ID: <9802028864.AA886447465@athgway.ath.umich.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


I am looking for advice, techniques and tips on building a chess/checker board
for my 11 year old son. Any advice on types of glass, square sizes, color
combinations, foil thicknesses, soldering, etc that anyone has would be welcome. 

I tried a sample one of 3/4" squares last night and other than cutting up my
thumb, it came out okay. Haven't foiled and soldered it yet though. Did it in a
tealish/white marble and solid cream colors.

Thanks,

Sue
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 12:10:24 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: 3x within 3 hours?
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:00:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.10024.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Albert-

Hope your message got to someone
besides the bungi crowd! ;-)

Best,

Dani
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 12:12:37 1998
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X-Path: yahoo.com!sheila_oh
From: Sheila <sheila_oh@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cleaning soldering tips
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:11:30 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.41130.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I too just got a Hakko tip cleaner and it seems to be working out much
better than the sponge I was using.  I don't have to wait for my iron
to reheat.  

Keep Cutting
Sheila
OhiO 






_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: TifStyOrig@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:50:11 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.205011.0>
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Today as I was munching on Pringles potato chips and thought, "hmmmm, a good
container, what glass-related items could I store in this?"

In this age of small spaces, and tight corners, I throw the question out to
this group - what creative storage ideas have you come up with?

Some creative ideas have been shared in the past, ie., milk crates for storing
glass, pc pipe for storing long pieces of came and zinc, small square kleenex
boxes for.....(what was that you used those for Steph~?).

Those who feel inspired, please share your ideas.  I have a make-shift studio
in my garage that suits me well, but I have so many little items strewn about
here and there........and it might be fun to see what people have come up with
to store those odd items.

Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
Delray Beach, FL
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 12:55:25 1998
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From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Directions to W-C
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:47:27 EST
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If you are a landmark person - the following may help:

 - For Airport Road North - I only saw one small sign actually saying this and
can be easily missed if you are in the left lane....look for 987N which is the
same as Airport Road North....3rd light is Weaversville Road - at that light
is also an AM/PM MiniMarket - that landmark may be helpful too.  

      Margaret Spicer
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 13:34:06 1998
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Subject: Re: a couple of questions and a big Thank you
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:26:52 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-01 00:43:49 EST, you write:

Jeremy asked:

<< question #2 besides delphi are there any other large mail order supply
 companies? >>

I recently received a delphi catalog - although many in the business describe
Warner-Crivello (sp?) as far as their prices go - "prices are good for retail
customer; not so good for wholesale customer". (My regular glass supplier does
wish W-C would not sell retail...).  Delphi vs. W-C:  W-C prices for tools &
supplies are better.  Not sure on glass prices since it is too far a drive for
me for a few hobby-sized sheets.

           Margaret Spicer
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 13:38:15 1998
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please change my address from sford@nettally.com  to vford@nettally.com
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 13:42:42 1998
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Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 16:00:59 PST
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If I'm remembering correctly, Diane, the suggestion for the Kleenex 
box was to stash small glass scraps in it.  Once I read the suggestion
I stopped throwing away those teeney little bits of glass and now toss
them into the Kleenex box on my workbench.  One of these days I'll
put them into a rock tumbler and viola' -- beach glass!  I'll sift it by 
size and use the larger pieces in a clear vase for forcing bulbs, etc.
The smaller pieces I'll put into a pretty holder and add a little fragrance
oil.

Unfortunately, no ingenious ideas to add to the pot here.  I just use 
the regular stackable, plastic storage boxes for scraps, as well as
all the other paraphernalia, empty wrapping paper tubes for large 
patterns, ziplocks for foil, etc.  But, I'm sure I'll learn something new 
from those brilliant suggestions we can always count on from this 
group!

Actually, this brings a question to mind... I store my 6' strips of lead 
by bending a small hook over on the end and hanging them from a 
large nail in the wall.  I use this storage method for both stretched 
and unstretched lead.   Am I doing any damage to the lead by not 
storing it flat?

Dawn

> what creative storage ideas have you come up with?
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 13:47:55 1998
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Re: Q about layout guides
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 16:05:40 PST
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When I assemble an oval or circular panel that does not have to
fit exactly inside an opening of a window, I don't use a jig to 
assemble it.  I just use horseshoe nails around the pieces to hold
it all in place.  Have I missed the boat somewhere, or are there
others that do it this way???

Dawn

 >For a layout guide on round and oval pieces I have always used a 
>piece of lead U came 
> Do any of you use a different product to hold your round designs 
>together as you work on them? 

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 13:47:56 1998
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From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: my site has been updated
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:43:06 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-02 10:15:43 EST, Mike Savad wrote:

<< ok, i just updated my site for anyone who follows it. i added another 22
 new links. 
 7 new projects added (though alot of them are on the simple side). the
 new pictures are much larger to look at. >>


You already had a nice and informative site prior to the update...do you do
anything else besides stained glass?

     Margaret
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 13:50:08 1998
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Subject: OOOh, it's dark in here!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:48:31 -0500
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Hi!

I don't think I've had any messages in a day or so ... is the list down,
was I somehow unsubbed, is it really just this quiet, or am I nuts?

Don't answer that last one!

In the dark here, (there's a storm coming)
M.-J.

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 14:06:44 1998
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From: "Don McDonald" <don@ccti.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:10:27 +0000
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I'll bite on this one!

I use those square plastic freezer boxes to store things like 
marbles, blobs, eye hooks, open foil rolls and any other little 
things.  They come in various sizes, they stack well, they are cheap 
and sturdy, you can write on them, you can sorta see through them.

I save the spools solder comes on, tie three or so together with 
copper wire or vinyl tape and use them to hold my paint brushes, 
glass cutters and pens in.

I store my pattern pieces and cartoons in large ziplock baggies.  I 
also use ziplock baggies to make up project packages when I'm doing 
crafts classes. (pre-cut glass, cartoon, foil)

I use shot glasses to pour small amounts of chemicals in while 
working.  You an find sets of 4 shot glasses at those "everything a 
dollar" stores, at least in the Southern USA.

Now if I could just find a use for those spools the foil comes on...

> In this age of small spaces, and tight corners, I throw the question out to
> this group - what creative storage ideas have you come up with?
> 

Don M. McDonald
Director, Web Services
Chesapeake Communications Corporation
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 14:28:31 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 17:25:36 -0500
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Carl Childers wrote:
> 
> Every time I visit Mike Savad's pages, I start to think that I should
> hang up the old soldering iron. The Azure box - WOW I thought the Fish
> Lamp was complicated.
> And you have a day job too??
> 
> ----
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well... i do what i can... :)

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 14:29:10 1998
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Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 16:31:11 PST
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Very creative, Don.  

But.....

> Now if I could just find a use for those spools the foil comes on...

You must not have a cat or you would have an answer for that one!

Dawn
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 14:33:43 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chess Boards
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 17:31:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.123130.0>
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sue_vershum_at_umad-maize@athgway.ath.umich.edu wrote:
> 
> I am looking for advice, techniques and tips on building a chess/checker board
> for my 11 year old son. Any advice on types of glass, square sizes, color
> combinations, foil thicknesses, soldering, etc that anyone has would be welcome.
> 
> I tried a sample one of 3/4" squares last night and other than cutting up my
> thumb, it came out okay. Haven't foiled and soldered it yet though. Did it in a
> tealish/white marble and solid cream colors.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sue
> ----
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> 
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i made up a chess board on my project page. the squares are 1-1/2" wide,
i used a 1" strip of glass as a border. then made another 1" border to
make it 3-d, i believe i also put a support underneath, so it does'nt
sink in the middle.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 14:37:29 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 17:35:14 -0500
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TifStyOrig@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Today as I was munching on Pringles potato chips and thought, "hmmmm, a good
> container, what glass-related items could I store in this?"
> 
> In this age of small spaces, and tight corners, I throw the question out to
> this group - what creative storage ideas have you come up with?
> 
> Some creative ideas have been shared in the past, ie., milk crates for storing
> glass, pc pipe for storing long pieces of came and zinc, small square kleenex
> boxes for.....(what was that you used those for Steph~?).
> 
> Those who feel inspired, please share your ideas.  I have a make-shift studio
> in my garage that suits me well, but I have so many little items strewn about
> here and there........and it might be fun to see what people have come up with
> to store those odd items.
> 
> Diane Manchester
> Tiffany Styled Originals
> Delray Beach, FL
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


let's see.... i use thick cardboard tubes (about 6-15" long), to hold my
morton strips and misc. tubes. 

i glue boards with hooks in them on the walls for box chain.

i use fishing tackle boxes to hold onto small gems. 

and i keep magnets around to hold small metal things like pins, and
razor blades.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chess Boards
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:54:37 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.65437.0>
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Organization: Maiden Concepts
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sue_vershum_at_umad-maize@athgway.ath.umich.edu wrote:
> 
> I am looking for advice, techniques and tips on building a chess/checker board

Ask Mike,  He has a beautful chess board shown at his site.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 15:12:24 1998
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From: TifStyOrig@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:57:03 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-02 17:07:23 EST, Don wrote:

<< Now if I could just find a use for those spools the foil comes on... >>

How about keeping a few and use as template/stencil to make a circle in a
pattern?

Diane :>)
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 15:20:28 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: OOOh, it's dark in here!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:17:40 -0500
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M.-J. Taylor wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I don't think I've had any messages in a day or so ... is the list down,
> was I somehow unsubbed, is it really just this quiet, or am I nuts?
> 
> Don't answer that last one!
> 
> In the dark here, (there's a storm coming)
> M.-J.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


maybe it's a little of both... :) make has been coming in pretty well.
today i must have gotten over 60 pieces.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 15:22:58 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: my site has been updated
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:20:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.132054.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.21436.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Margaret41@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-02-02 10:15:43 EST, Mike Savad wrote:
> 
> << ok, i just updated my site for anyone who follows it. i added another 22
>  new links.
>  7 new projects added (though alot of them are on the simple side). the
>  new pictures are much larger to look at. >>
> 
> You already had a nice and informative site prior to the update...do you do
> anything else besides stained glass?
> 
>      Margaret
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i can do other things. but in general, i do SG. if i had the equipment
and the time i could do fine furniture work, or maybe fusing. in general
i've always believed that a page online should have some value, and
information. and not anything about my spam collection or what my cat
had for breakfast. besides there's plenty of those pages... 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 15:34:54 1998
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X-Path: ccti.net!don
From: "Don McDonald" <don@ccti.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:39:02 +0000
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Actually, I do have a cat, she just looks at them and goes off to 
find something noisier, more expensive and breakable.

> You must not have a cat or you would have an answer for that one!
 

Don M. McDonald
Director, Web Services
Chesapeake Communications Corporation
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 15:38:20 1998
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X-Path: glasstreasures.com!sgt
From: Stephanie Hansen <sgt@glasstreasures.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 17:37:42 -0600
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980202173742.007daa60@glasstreasures.com>
References: <<1998Feb2.205011.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 04:00 PM 2/2/98 PST, you wrote:
>If I'm remembering correctly, Diane, the suggestion for the Kleenex 
>box was to stash small glass scraps in it.

Yep, that's correct, I use those for the small pieces of glass that "some
day I'll use to make mosaics" - LOL   I've got them sorted more-or-less by
colors, blues, greens, reds, pinks, white/clear, misc.   The
itty-bitty-bitty pieces that are even too small for that are now thrown
into a jar on the workbench - used to throw them away, but I've started
keeping them for who-knows-what use, esp. after Elisabeth or is it
Elizabeth (whichever spelling has Toby, sorry, can't remember now which is
which!) mentioned selling them to potters to use for glaze.  I also saw
something in a catalog the other day, a clear plastic picture frame that
you can put objects in - I thought of getting one and putting all those
glass scraps in it - could make an interesting frame!

I use stackable drawers for bigger glass scraps, jewels, pressed flowers,
filigrees, bevels, unopen foil, spare solder, suction cups, etc. etc. etc.,
and with the bigger drawers I use small containers of all kinds inside to
keep like stuff together.  The drawers are labelled with what's inside, and
they're easier to me than using boxes which require lids to be taken off
and put back on.

Right now I just keep the came in the box it comes in from the mail order
suppliers so that it stays straight, and lean it up against a corner by my
workbench.  Currently-used foil resides in those plastic foil dispensers,
black-back in one and silver-back in a separate one; those dispensers plus
currently-in-use flux, solder, cleaner, wax and the like go on a shelf
above my workbench.  Other misc. supplies go in the space underneath my
workbench.

I use upright metal file folder holders from the office supply for sheet
glass of roughly 12" x 18" or less (sorted by colors), and larger sheets
right now are just on the floor leaning against a shelf unit.  I don't buy
a lot of large sheets since I do smaller gift-market type items and don't
need huge sheets of uncut glass.

I keep most of my patterns and pattern pieces in vinyl holders in a
notebook; for those patterns that are larger than the notebook, I keep them
in a separate compartment of the file folder holders that hold the glass.
All magazines and patterns books are in plastic magazine holder boxes.

Well, enuff from me.  I don't use anything really fancy, but I can pretty
much put my hands on whatever I want because I know where it is.  I've
found that I pretty much have to keep everything put away because I don't
have enough surface space left to leave it laying around!

Steph ~

-----------------------------------
Stephanie Hansen - Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX
Affordable stained glass pieces for gifts or personal use
Enter the sweepstakes to win a stained glass suncatcher!
<mailto:sgt@glasstreasures.com>   <http://glasstreasures.com/>
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 16:03:31 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Creative Storage! You asked for it.!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:01:55 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.8155.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.205011.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I went to Staple and they have a large free standing metal letter
holder.  It cost $4.95 and it holdsup to 20) 1'X2' pieces of glass
great.  Half the price for the same thing you get at the glass
supply(that is if you pay retail) places.
I use plastic crates to hold my 1'X1' pieces of glass.  You can get them
on sale at wal-mart for $1.98 and they are great for holding all the
blues and the reds and the greens etc. etc.
My mother found me an artist utility holder(at a garage sale, she paid
50 cents for it), it is a double decker round twirly thing and it holds
my tools, just great. Takes up square foot of space. I can hear it now,
"How does a round thing take up a square".
When I need temporary extra table surface, I just put up a card table.
I also have a halogen lamp over my work surface and the base of the lamp
is a desk caddy, which holds my stained glass tools.  The scotch tape
come in handy, great place for glue, flux brushes and marking pens and
exacto knife.
I bought a children clothes closet at wal-mart.  The kind that has a
closet on one side and 3 draws and three sleves on the other side and
this is all one unit.  It was made out of press board.  I put shelves
where the clothes were suppose to go.  Put scrap glass in the drawers
after I put dividers in the drawers(so I could keep all the colors
separted(I know I am anal)).  Then in the open shelves I kept supplies
and works finished or in progress.  Kept eveything in a neat
combined,small space.  Only one problem.  The compressed wood could not
hold the weight.  The whole thing sagged in the middle,  the bottom fell
out of the drawers.  Then you couldn't close the drawers or the door to
the closet part. Now it takes up much needed space and holds very
little.  But it was a good idea! I know it can be braced, just haven't
got around to it.
I also use one of those little plastic tables(at wal-mart again), the
kind you buy flat and then just stick the legs into the bottom of the
table top.  I put it near my work space and it gives me a second level. 
I originally put it there, so the cat could watch what I am doing
without having to sit on what I am doing.  But the cat soon got shoved
away for the space it provided.
Fred Meyers is selling a black, pueudowrought iron quilt stand for $35
right now.  The sides are shaped like an S and it has four cross bars. 
Perfect for displaying or storing suncatchers. It is not extremely
strong so balance will play a major role in using this.  I am going to
use it in my next show to display humming bird castings.  Oak quilt
stands make a nice display also.
And if you are into making stepping stones, freddy's also sells plant
stands, encased in white, green and black, plastic that make great
stepping stone tables.  They start at $14.95(10"surface,16" off the
ground) to $45(connected triple 10" surfaces that fold into one another
for storage).  I think there are four sizes and/or shapes. I personnaly
think they are great with the deck chairs. They add color and decor to
your deck and can hold a single drink.
If you do craft shows, you always need a fix-it box or a something to do
box.  I use a plastic under the bed, with a lid, storage box.  I think
they are still on sale this time of year.
Stackable rubbermaid type boxes with lids are great for carting glass
projects in. Put foam on the bottom and walls.  Don't pack near the top,
use plastic bubble wrap between projects and they travel, pack and
unpact with ease.
To display my 14" round stepping stones, I make a sandwich board. Cut a
4'X8' peices of plywood in half.  Reinforce the back. Each side holds 9
stepping stones.  Place 1/2 dowels to hold the stones. Before you put
the dowels in, figure out placement and reinforce that area with 1"X2"
and drill holes all the way through plywood and reinforcement.  Then
glue the dowel in place. The dowel should be 4" long.  Leave the sides
sparated.  It is much lighter to carry around that way.  Buy long bolts
and just bolt sandwich board together at top.  The slight angle of the
sandwich board and gravity keeps the stones in place.  My only problem
with this at shows is keeping the kids out of the center.  And that is
easy to do.  Drape the whole thing in material(just cut a hole in the
material where the dowel needs to go through, the stones hide this and
therefore it is not unslightly) and let the material drape over the
ends.  Then you can keep the kids out and you have a place to hide all
your packing materials.
I found the neatest thing to tie down this sandwich board on top to the
car.  Don't know what it is called. But it is a strap with a jack
connected to it.  Sure saves time and I think it's a better tie down
than a rope. They are in the automotive/sports section at Wal-Mart. They
are 5 times more expensive than rope. So they do constitute an
investment, even at Wal-Mart!
I have proof-read this,  but I always miss something. So pardon my
mistakes.
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 16:28:27 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Chess Boards
Date: Mon,  2 Feb 1998 19:21:33, -0500
Message-ID: <199802030021.TAB15568@mime4.prodigy.com>
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Whatever you do do not use solder containing lead. Lead free solder 
from the hardware store will do the trick. I understand that younger 
developing people are less tollerant of lead than older people that 
do not need any.

I believe the size of the squares in a chess board are cut to match 
the size of the pieces. 3/4" seems small.
Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow 
Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 16:35:51 1998
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From: Dave & Lynn Loda <dandl@crcwnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: OOOh, it's dark in here!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:35:28 -0800
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References: <<3.0.5.32.19980202164831.007d2d10@pop.netrox.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Art Glass of Wenatchee
Precedence: bulk

Believe something is wrong on your end, there has been a lot of postings.
Where is it dark?

Dave

M.-J. Taylor wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I don't think I've had any messages in a day or so ... is the list down,
> was I somehow unsubbed, is it really just this quiet, or am I nuts?
>
> Don't answer that last one!
>
> In the dark here, (there's a storm coming)
> M.-J.
>
> ----
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--
____________________

Dave & Lynn Loda
Art Glass of Wenatchee
http://artglassw.com
Stained Glass Gifts & Supplies


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 16:36:18 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Mon,  2 Feb 1998 19:33:06, -0500
Message-ID: <199802030033.TAA18478@mime4.prodigy.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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well... i do what i can... :)

---Mike Savad

How about editing the text of the messages you respond to. You are 
costing some of a considerable amount of money in phone charges for 
what is often small gain.
Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow 
Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 16:37:41 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu
From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Creative Storage! You asked for it.!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:29:20 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.02920.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-02 19:05:13 EST, you write:

<< Don't know what it is called. But it is a strap with a jack
 connected to it.  Sure saves time and I think it's a better tie down >>

If that is an elastic type of thing I call it a bungi cord.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 16:39:16 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:38:14 -0500
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Hi Steph-

You shouldn't stand your came boxes
upright- leave them lying flat.  We have
metal shelf brackets on the walls to stack the
boxes the same way you would use a
shelf on the brackets.  Keeps the boxes
out of the way, flat, accessible, and labels
clearly visible.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 16:51:00 1998
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X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:57:21 -0600
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Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service  & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Yeah Mike, how 'bout it?

Shirley
Grapeland, Tx.

BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> 
> well... i do what i can... :)
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> How about editing the text of the messages you respond to.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 16:52:16 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Q about layout guides
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 98 19:53:36 -0500
Message-ID: <199802030051.TAA17989@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>For a layout guide on round and oval pieces I have always used a piece
>of lead U came and secured it into place with push pins. Do any of you
>use a different product to hold your round designs together as you work
>on them? I feel as if I'm wasting a lot of lead came with my method.

I just use push pins! However, each piece of glass usually needs two 
pushpins.

Suzanne

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 16:53:19 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 19:51:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.145117.0>
References: <<199802030033.TAA18478@mime4.prodigy.com>>
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Precedence: bulk

BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> 
> well... i do what i can... :)
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> How about editing the text of the messages you respond to. You are
> costing some of a considerable amount of money in phone charges for
> what is often small gain.
> Bob
> 
> ____
> Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow
> Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
> Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


though other's will disagree, you should get a better ISP that does'nt
charge for that. and besides, what listed above is very confusing. i've
seen people clip it so much that i have no idea what they're responding
to. and what was there to edit on the line above, what 4 lines...?


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 17:16:07 1998
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From: Stephanie Hansen <sgt@glasstreasures.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 19:11:44 -0600
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References: <<1998Feb2.143814.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>>You shouldn't stand your came boxes
>upright- leave them lying flat.  

Thanks, Dani!  I had wondered about that....and Dawn, I think you asked the
same question, too.  One other question, I guess - WHY should they be flat
and not upright?  (Sorry, I have a hard time doing something without a good
reason!  LOL)

Steph ~

-----------------------------------
Stephanie Hansen - Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX
Affordable stained glass pieces for gifts or personal use
Enter the sweepstakes to win a stained glass suncatcher!
<mailto:sgt@glasstreasures.com>   <http://glasstreasures.com/>
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 17:16:42 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 17:02:46 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.9246.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.143814.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Michael J. Greer wrote:
> 
> Hi Steph-
> 
> You shouldn't stand your came boxes
> upright- leave them lying flat.

My retailer uses gutters to display came in.  Never paid any attention
to how he attached it to the wall though.
Dave you want to take it from here?
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 17:17:17 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Creative Storage! You asked for it.!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:59:28 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.85928.0>
References: <<1998Feb3.02920.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

> If that is an elastic type of thing I call it a bungi cord.
No the strap is very sturdy, like a strap on a duffle bag.
The jack it permenantly connected to one end of the strap. You slide the
other end of the strap through the jack and then crank it tight, just
like you would jack up a car.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 17:29:23 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu
From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: OOOh, it's dark in here!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:21:36 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.12136.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-02 19:43:27 EST, you write:

<<  I don't think I've had any messages in a day or so .. >>

Saturday had some but not the usual quantity and Sunday had even less.
Monday was wonderful though....lots of postings.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 17:32:10 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:27:45 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.12745.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-02 20:06:53 EST, you write:

<< hough other's will disagree, you should get a better ISP that does'nt
 charge for that. >>

MAYBE that is the only one in England that they have available where they have
to pay by the minute.  Mike, no one is asking you to stop participating,  just
snip and cut.  A little consideration is all that is being ask of you....is
that really asking too much?

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 17:48:03 1998
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From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Shirley's Amazing Essay!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:27:08 -0500
Message-ID: <v01530500b0fc21b4ef4f@[206.186.242.224]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Wow Shirley! Your essay on storage and show displays was great! I am very
impressed.

I have a question for those of you with pet cats...Do you let your cat into
your workspace? My cat tries desperately to come in and I always try to
keep her out, as I am afraid that she'll get glass in her paws. Am I
worrying too much...do cats know better than to walk on bits of glass?

Sarah


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 17:50:46 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 20:47:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.154751.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.9246.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Shirley Balloch wrote:
> 
> Michael J. Greer wrote:
> >
> > Hi Steph-
> >
> > You shouldn't stand your came boxes
> > upright- leave them lying flat.
> 
> My retailer uses gutters to display came in.  Never paid any attention
> to how he attached it to the wall though.
> Dave you want to take it from here?
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


my guess would be that it's attached with gutter spikes. the older
gutters used these giant spikes. the newer ons hang on with straps...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 17:54:40 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Q about layout guides
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 98 19:53:36 -0500
Message-ID: <199802030051.TAA17989@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>For a layout guide on round and oval pieces I have always used a piece
>of lead U came and secured it into place with push pins. Do any of you
>use a different product to hold your round designs together as you work
>on them? I feel as if I'm wasting a lot of lead came with my method.

I just use push pins! However, each piece of glass usually needs two 
pushpins.

Suzanne

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 17:56:55 1998
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X-Path: warwick.net!u1011375
From: Phil/Terri Fabiano <u1011375@warwick.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Creative Storage Ideas
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 20:53:36 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.125336.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I use one of those plastic boxes that has a ton of little drawers in it
to hold my colored nuggets, castings, chain, jump rings, push pins for
the Morton, etc.  

Terri
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 18:05:14 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 19:51:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.145117.0>
References: <<199802030033.TAA18478@mime4.prodigy.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> 
> well... i do what i can... :)
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> How about editing the text of the messages you respond to. You are
> costing some of a considerable amount of money in phone charges for
> what is often small gain.
> Bob
> 
> ____
> Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow
> Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
> Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


though other's will disagree, you should get a better ISP that does'nt
charge for that. and besides, what listed above is very confusing. i've
seen people clip it so much that i have no idea what they're responding
to. and what was there to edit on the line above, what 4 lines...?


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 18:22:39 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Chess Boards
Date: Mon,  2 Feb 1998 19:21:33, -0500
Message-ID: <199802030021.TAB15568@mime4.prodigy.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Whatever you do do not use solder containing lead. Lead free solder 
from the hardware store will do the trick. I understand that younger 
developing people are less tollerant of lead than older people that 
do not need any.

I believe the size of the squares in a chess board are cut to match 
the size of the pieces. 3/4" seems small.
Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow 
Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 18:36:09 1998
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Not doing badly!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:31:09 +0000
Message-ID: <199802030235.CAA16829@pluto.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dani!
Thank you!
Will contact you off-group...
Would really, really want to explore Muslim designs much more. 
Totally disaccossiated from my Godson, had several e-mails from 
Architects etc in Turkey and elsewhere in the Muslim world last 
couple of weeks. Like I always wanted to try my hand at Celtic 
designs, I also want to try my hand at some of the Mulsim geometric 
designs (although I will probably curse every single cut).
Sinan (my Godson) and I went to see the film "The Titanic" the other 
day. The visual effects were stunning; tomorrow he will be visiting 
the BBC, have a balloon ride over London, visiting the London 
Transport Museum and finish the evening by going to watch the musical 
"Starlight Express".  His little (leaded)  stained glass project is 
REALLY beginning to take shape and I am really quite proud of him!
It's freezing here.
Got to run, I have a dead-line of 10 days to deliver 1 of 2 panels. 
Will be in touch off-group!
Thanks for your patience.
Love from 
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 18:36:54 1998
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:55:40 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19980202185022.24df7832@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well, Diane,  I have all sorts of styrofoam containers recycled from the
vets.... The ones from large glucose bottles (6-8 large round holes i a
square box) I use for seperating by color my glass nuggets... they stack
well too.  There are some little rectangular ones... I am not sure what came
in them, that I keep my glass marking pens in (the kind you write on
computor disks with) which need to be stored flat, along with an aluminum
exacto blade handle that I use to smooth foil down with, etc.  I use the
cardboard boxes that my husband gets duplicate slides in to store all sorts
of things.... I made a hole in a can and hung it on the peg board for pens
and pencils which can be stored vertically....etc.....  Anything that comes
to hand, has a use if one can just think of it.  I cut my own garden labels
out of plastic gallon jugs  (oops not glass) slap... Meg

At 03:50 PM 2/2/98 EST, you wrote:
>Today as I was munching on Pringles potato chips and thought, "hmmmm, a=
 good
>container, what glass-related items could I store in this?"
>
>In this age of small spaces, and tight corners, I throw the question out to
>this group - what creative storage ideas have you come up with?
>
>Some creative ideas have been shared in the past, ie., milk crates for=
 storing
>glass, pc pipe for storing long pieces of came and zinc, small square=
 kleenex
>boxes for.....(what was that you used those for Steph~?).
>
>Those who feel inspired, please share your ideas.  I have a make-shift=
 studio
>in my garage that suits me well, but I have so many little items strewn=
 about
>here and there........and it might be fun to see what people have come up=
 with
>to store those odd items.
>
>Diane Manchester
>Tiffany Styled Originals
>Delray Beach, FL
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
 REMEMBER: "Bats bite bugs best!"
    =BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?
  Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace
               apdo. 24-5655
       Monteverde, Puntarenas
               COSTA RICA
              phone 645 5052

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 18:36:54 1998
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Tour of English Stained Glass ... reduced!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:31:09 +0000
Message-ID: <199802030235.CAA16854@pluto.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

The British Pound Sterling is pretty strong at the moment. It 
currently stands at about 1.73/4  US Dollars to the Pound, which 
still makes the cost of this trip extraordinarily expensive at 
approx.  UK Sterling  2,240. For that price I would expect 
accommodation at the Claridges' Hotel.  At prices like this, it would 
seem that the accommodation is more important than the 
content/purpose of the trip.And it lasts for 8 (eight) days - 
including arrival/departure  days, which tend to be "dead" days 
anyhow. (So in effect 6 days....?).
I have said this before.
It's fine, if you have got money to burn.
 I just don't want anyone Across the Pond to think that this is a 
kind of a  MINIMUM budget to give value for money. It isn't.(In UK 
this represents almost 3 months " middle average" salary. A lot of 
people earn perhaps UK Pounds 400 - 500 per month - just so that you 
get the perspective). I just would not like to think that anyone from 
Across the Pond, wishing to visit this little Island to get the 
impression that  to see, experience, hearing about, learning about 
stained glass in UK requires this kind of budget. A lot of these 
high-light programmes/lectures/talks you listed in UK Albert, are 
free or at a quite nominal cost (even more so if in a group). . I 
myself have attended a number of them. That's All .....
"Starvers" and serious students of stained glass in UK, please do 
not be deterred or feel despondent.
Julie Sloan will just adore me...!     :-( 
Elisabeth in UK (steps off soap-box and wishes Julie the greatest of 
success!)
 Sorry , .....Toby sleeps! Not to be disturbed!

Albert wrote:
 We just heard from the organizer of the tour of English 
stained glass, which will be led by Julie L. Sloan next July (11-19). 
They've asked the hotel and transportation people to sharpen their 
pencils and have, as a result, come up with a lower price for the 
tour: $3,870 (but members of the Guild get a 10% discount, so they'll 
need to come up with only $3,480.)

Okay, it seems like a lot of money, but it includes good hotels, 
excellent transportation, and great food. Not to mention Julie 
Sloan's expertise and undivided attention, plus you'll get together 
with Sarah Brown, author of "Glass Painters," "Stained Glass:
       An Illustrated History," and "Life, Death and Art: The
       Medieval Stained Glass of Fairford Parish Church."  

       Michael Coles, a glass historian who has been a
       consultant for English Heritage, the equivalent of The
       National Trust for Historic Preservation in the United
       States.   

       Sarianne Durie, renowned stained glass artist and restorer ...
       and a member of The Art Workers Guild.  

       Martin Harrison, well-known author of "Victorian Stained
       Glass."  

       Susan Matthews, Director of the Stained Glass Museum at
       Ely Cathedral.  

       Malcolm Pollard, a leading authority on the glass of William
       Morris.  
and
       Stephen Wildman, an expert in English Victorian glass and
       the work of the Pre-Raphaelites.   

Take a look at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/tour/
and you'll see what I mean about this being a great event that you 
won't want to miss.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 18:48:05 1998
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X-Path: crcwnet.com!dandl
From: Dave & Lynn Loda <dandl@crcwnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: OOOh, it's dark in here!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:35:28 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.83528.0>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19980202164831.007d2d10@pop.netrox.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Art Glass of Wenatchee
Precedence: bulk

Believe something is wrong on your end, there has been a lot of postings.
Where is it dark?

Dave

M.-J. Taylor wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I don't think I've had any messages in a day or so ... is the list down,
> was I somehow unsubbed, is it really just this quiet, or am I nuts?
>
> Don't answer that last one!
>
> In the dark here, (there's a storm coming)
> M.-J.
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



--
____________________

Dave & Lynn Loda
Art Glass of Wenatchee
http://artglassw.com
Stained Glass Gifts & Supplies


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 18:49:05 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!MsChatee
From: MsChatee@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:45:58 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.24558.0>
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The only thing I have different from the already listed ideas is an expandable
portfolio for my patterns.  I file them alphabetically, and number them as
well since I have about 8 angel patterns.  I keep the cut up pieces in a
regular letter size envelope with the name and number and number of pieces
written on it (in case I lose any) and insert them in the same compartment.
For the patterns that don't have names I label them Flat 1, etc, Oval flower
1, etc.  This way when I want a pattern I know exactly where to look.  I won't
take credit for this idea though, my partner was sick of seeing patterns
laying all over the house and bought it for me for Christmas.
Also the Dollar Store has all kinds of great clear boxes with compartments to
sort smaller scraps of glass.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 18:49:55 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3x within 3 hours?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:57:17 +0000
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> Hope your message got to someone
> besides the bungi crowd! ;-)

Yeah, I noticed that flub on my part. Hard to imagine, isn't it, 
myself making a dumb mistake like that? <sigh>

Albert

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 18:51:46 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Tiffany lamps
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:52:01 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.10521.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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No Idea about the loop.

An oddysey catalog or worden catalog may show a like image.

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 19:22:41 1998
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From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Creative Storage! You asked for it.!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 21:13:53 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.131353.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.85928.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool
Precedence: bulk

> The jack it permenantly connected to one end of the strap. You slide the
> other end of the strap through the jack and then crank it tight, just
> like you would jack up a car.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I believe these are called tie down straps, and are used to strap down
things say on semi's or flatbeds.




Blessings;

Laurean



Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one

another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 19:22:41 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Shirley's Amazing Essay!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 98 22:21:52 -0500
Message-ID: <199802030319.WAA27459@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>I have a question for those of you with pet cats...Do you let your cat into
>your workspace? My cat tries desperately to come in and I always try to
>keep her out, as I am afraid that she'll get glass in her paws. Am I
>worrying too much...do cats know better than to walk on bits of glass?

(Disclaimer: I can speak only for myself and my two cats!) They have had 
free roam of the studio from the get-go. Not one accident in over ten 
years. No glass in paws, etc. I do watch they don't flick their tails on 
my fluxed work and I try to keep them at bay when soldering (have read 
that fumes can settle on their fur then they lick it off). They are 
healthy, happy cats and most times just like to perch on a counter and 
watch me. Also they love to bite and chew at the copper foil backing as 
it rolls out of the foiler, and sit under the gooseneck lamp soaking up 
the warmth. Some of my students aren't happy with cats so in those cases 
I put them in another room; much to their dismay. 

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 19:32:14 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Shirley's Amazing Essay!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 19:31:16 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.113116.0>
References: <<v01530500b0fc21b4ef4f@[206.186.242.224]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Am I
> worrying too much...do cats know better than to walk on bits of glass?
> 
> Sarah

I can only speak for my 7 cats.  They go where they want when they
want.  So far have been very lucky.  No cuts. and I have glass
everywhere.  The only time I intervene is if they are settling in the
concrete or sniffing in the flux or about to pounce on the soldering
iron.  Otherwise they are content to be curled up as long as they can be
close.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 19:49:53 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Chess Boards
Date: Mon,  2 Feb 1998 19:21:33, -0500
Message-ID: <199802030021.TAB15568@mime4.prodigy.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Whatever you do do not use solder containing lead. Lead free solder 
from the hardware store will do the trick. I understand that younger 
developing people are less tollerant of lead than older people that 
do not need any.

I believe the size of the squares in a chess board are cut to match 
the size of the pieces. 3/4" seems small.
Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow 
Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 19:59:22 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chess Boards
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:41:15 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.34115.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I got a ?? about leadfree solder!!Can it be used in stained glass
projects,such as panels? And besides it being leadfree is there any other
difference in it,than the solder I'm using now?? (60-40) Thanks,Damon
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 20:06:21 1998
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From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chess Boards
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:05:13 -0800
Message-ID: <199802030405.UAA21196@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Here's some information on chess boards that may be of some help.
Choose your men first, then make the board. The diameter of the base of
the largest piece (the king) should be about three-quarters the width of
the square.
The standard size of a square on a board is 2 inches.
Squares that are to small may make it difficult to grasp the pieces. If
the board is to large, you may have to stretch when playing.
Also consider colors other than black and white which may be tiring on
the eyes. Possibly brown, or green, with cream.
If you are purchasing the chess pieces seperately, choose "Staunton"
pattern. This style is recognized throughtout the world.

P-K4

Andrew Tillinghast
Neoglassic Studio
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 20:15:46 1998
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:55:40 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19980202185022.24df7832@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well, Diane,  I have all sorts of styrofoam containers recycled from the
vets.... The ones from large glucose bottles (6-8 large round holes i a
square box) I use for seperating by color my glass nuggets... they stack
well too.  There are some little rectangular ones... I am not sure what came
in them, that I keep my glass marking pens in (the kind you write on
computor disks with) which need to be stored flat, along with an aluminum
exacto blade handle that I use to smooth foil down with, etc.  I use the
cardboard boxes that my husband gets duplicate slides in to store all sorts
of things.... I made a hole in a can and hung it on the peg board for pens
and pencils which can be stored vertically....etc.....  Anything that comes
to hand, has a use if one can just think of it.  I cut my own garden labels
out of plastic gallon jugs  (oops not glass) slap... Meg

At 03:50 PM 2/2/98 EST, you wrote:
>Today as I was munching on Pringles potato chips and thought, "hmmmm, a=
 good
>container, what glass-related items could I store in this?"
>
>In this age of small spaces, and tight corners, I throw the question out to
>this group - what creative storage ideas have you come up with?
>
>Some creative ideas have been shared in the past, ie., milk crates for=
 storing
>glass, pc pipe for storing long pieces of came and zinc, small square=
 kleenex
>boxes for.....(what was that you used those for Steph~?).
>
>Those who feel inspired, please share your ideas.  I have a make-shift=
 studio
>in my garage that suits me well, but I have so many little items strewn=
 about
>here and there........and it might be fun to see what people have come up=
 with
>to store those odd items.
>
>Diane Manchester
>Tiffany Styled Originals
>Delray Beach, FL
>----
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>
>
 REMEMBER: "Bats bite bugs best!"
    =BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?
  Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace
               apdo. 24-5655
       Monteverde, Puntarenas
               COSTA RICA
              phone 645 5052

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 20:17:20 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Shirley's Amazing Essay!
Date: Mon,  2 Feb 1998 23:13:59, -0500
Message-ID: <199802030413.XAA11804@mime4.prodigy.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 Some of my students aren't happy with cats so in those cases 
I put them in another room; much to their dismay. 

Suzanne

Good for you Suzanne! People that do not like cats belong in another 
room.;)

My Freeway has been a studio cat for ten years. He has never cut 
himself, broken a piece of glass and does not seem to be suffering 
from lead poisoning. He often sleeps on my workbenches and licks his 
coat like any cat. The record will show that I am concerned about 
lead and other studio hazards but my cat's experience does not seem 
to bear the problem out. I say get a cat at all costs.
Bob

Ps: Digger does not have any problems although he has broken glass 
that was in the way. He is a 5.5 year old German Shepherd.

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow 
Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 20:17:49 1998
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From: Dave & Lynn Loda <dandl@crcwnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: OOOh, it's dark in here!
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:35:28 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.83528.0>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19980202164831.007d2d10@pop.netrox.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Art Glass of Wenatchee
Precedence: bulk

Believe something is wrong on your end, there has been a lot of postings.
Where is it dark?

Dave

M.-J. Taylor wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I don't think I've had any messages in a day or so ... is the list down,
> was I somehow unsubbed, is it really just this quiet, or am I nuts?
>
> Don't answer that last one!
>
> In the dark here, (there's a storm coming)
> M.-J.
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



--
____________________

Dave & Lynn Loda
Art Glass of Wenatchee
http://artglassw.com
Stained Glass Gifts & Supplies


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 20:38:13 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: 3x within 3 hours?
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:36:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.183625.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Albert writes:

"Hard to imagine, isn't it, myself
making a dumb mistake like that?"

Ah, but it makes you all the more =

human, Albert.  At least you didn't =

ask to be removed.  Can you the
imagine the onslaught of mail?!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 20:38:17 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:36:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.183642.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Steph-

The less tightly packed the lead is
in the box, the more it will stretch to
the bottom of the box by virtue of
gravity and its own weight... pretty
soon you'll end up with half the =

length of the lead kinked up at the
lower section - this is what you're =

trying to avoid, but standing the box
on end eventually contributes to the
problem.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 20:39:38 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison
From: ItsAlison@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Creative Storage! You asked for it.!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:26:55 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.42655.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-02 19:05:13 EST, you write:

<< also use one of those little plastic tables(at wal-mart again), the
 kind you buy flat and then just stick the legs into the bottom of the
 table top.  I put it near my work space and it gives me a second level. 
 I originally put it there, so the cat could watch what I am doing
 without having to sit on what I am doing.  But the cat soon got shoved
 away for the space it provided. >>

The Truth Is Out of the bag........from the looks of it, after reading the
Bungi Mail it seems that Cats have an affinity for stained glass.  I know my
cat always comes to supervise and comment on how the work is going..and it
seems that she is not alone in her interests. Come to think of it, three glass
supply studios that I frequent all have cats. Hmmmmmm......
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 20:44:59 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Shirley's Amazing Essay!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:36:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.183634.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Sarah-

We have three studio cats who live at the =

shop and they're pretty savvy - haven't =

had any problems with glass ever although
old Miss Agatha had to be rushed into =

emergency years ago for spilling a container
of turpentine on her front paws, then cleaning
herself.  Of course, we try to keep things
relatively swept and vacuumed for OUR
sakes as well.

Best regards,

DAni Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 20:48:55 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Mon,  2 Feb 1998 19:33:06, -0500
Message-ID: <199802030033.TAA18478@mime4.prodigy.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

well... i do what i can... :)

---Mike Savad

How about editing the text of the messages you respond to. You are 
costing some of a considerable amount of money in phone charges for 
what is often small gain.
Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow 
Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 20:49:16 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Duplicate posts & Studio cats
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:48:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.184816.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I seem to be getting posts in
duplicate and triplicate again...
anyone else?

Bob says:

"People who do not like cats belong
in another room."  =


Too hysterical, Bob.  Michael and I
are still laughing ourselves silly!;-0
We, too, have a "pregnant" male
cat!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 20:55:26 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu
From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Creative Storage! You asked for it.!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:29:20 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.02920.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-02 19:05:13 EST, you write:

<< Don't know what it is called. But it is a strap with a jack
 connected to it.  Sure saves time and I think it's a better tie down >>

If that is an elastic type of thing I call it a bungi cord.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 21:05:15 1998
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X-Path: glasstreasures.com!sgt
From: Stephanie Hansen <sgt@glasstreasures.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Cats and glass
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:03:40 -0600
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980202230340.00818480@glasstreasures.com>
References: <<1998Feb3.42655.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Same here.....I've got 5 cats, and at any given time at least 2 of them are
uusally in my workroom with me.  I do not let them up on the workbench,
though...mainly because it's not all that big and I need all the space!
They love the windowsills, and I have some boxes on the bottom of a shelf
unit that have enough room between the top of the box and the bottom of the
above shelf for them to curl up on.  Of course, one of them also likes
laying on the floor RIGHT behind me, so I'm constantly tripping over her!

Steph ~

>The Truth Is Out of the bag........from the looks of it, after reading the
>Bungi Mail it seems that Cats have an affinity for stained glass.  I know my
>cat always comes to supervise and comment on how the work is going..and it
>seems that she is not alone in her interests. Come to think of it, three
glass
>supply studios that I frequent all have cats. Hmmmmmm......


-----------------------------------
Stephanie Hansen - Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX
Affordable stained glass pieces for gifts or personal use
Enter the sweepstakes to win a stained glass suncatcher!
<http://glasstreasures.com/>   <mailto:sgt@glasstreasures.com>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 21:07:12 1998
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X-Path: glasstreasures.com!sgt
From: Stephanie Hansen <sgt@glasstreasures.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Storing Came
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:05:40 -0600
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980202230540.0081eae0@glasstreasures.com>
References: <<1998Feb2.183642.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>The less tightly packed the lead is in the box, the more it will stretch
to the bottom of the box by virtue of gravity and its own weight... pretty
soon you'll end up with half the length of the lead kinked up at the lower
section - this is what you're trying to avoid, but standing the box on end
eventually contributes to the problem.

Ah....makes sense....perhaps I should have specified I only have zinc came.
 Is there the same problem with zinc?

Steph ~

-----------------------------------
Stephanie Hansen - Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX
Affordable stained glass pieces for gifts or personal use
Enter the sweepstakes to win a stained glass suncatcher!
<http://glasstreasures.com/>   <mailto:sgt@glasstreasures.com>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 21:08:03 1998
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Q about layout guides
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:07:22 -0800
Message-ID: <199802030507.VAA00279@norm.island.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>
>>For a layout guide on round and oval pieces I have always used a piece
>>of lead U came and secured it into place with push pins. Do any of you
>>use a different product to hold your round designs together as you work
>>on them? I feel as if I'm wasting a lot of lead came with my method.
>
>I just use push pins! However, each piece of glass usually needs two 
>pushpins.
>
>Suzanne

I have a few templates made out of thin plywood, thick cardboard or whatever
I had around at the time e.g. 16 x 20" oval which is a size I use quite
often.  I then grind the pieces to fit into the frame, then reassemble there
after foiling, tack solder, remove the template and finish the piece.

Cheers

Carol Swann 
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 21:10:14 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:38:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.143814.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Steph-

You shouldn't stand your came boxes
upright- leave them lying flat.  We have
metal shelf brackets on the walls to stack the
boxes the same way you would use a
shelf on the brackets.  Keeps the boxes
out of the way, flat, accessible, and labels
clearly visible.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 21:50:45 1998
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X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Duplicate posts 
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:55:15 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.175515.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.184816.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service  & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Thank you, Dani!  I've been rebooting everything in sight
thinking it was us.  Not only am I getting multi-posts, but
some are "missing in action".  Must be El Nino.

Shirley Suter
Grapeland, Tx. 

Dani Greer wrote:
> 
> I seem to be getting posts in
> duplicate and triplicate again...
> anyone else?
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 22:15:52 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Shirley's Amazing Essay!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:23:01 -0800
Message-ID: <199802030523.VAA03422@norm.island.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>
>>I have a question for those of you with pet cats...Do you let your cat into
>>your workspace? My cat tries desperately to come in and I always try to
>>keep her out, as I am afraid that she'll get glass in her paws. Am I
>>worrying too much...do cats know better than to walk on bits of glass?
>

My cat door is in the studio under the main work bench...Mousey is
constantly in and out.  She's never knocked anything over or injured herself
in any way.  Like others' cats she's very adept at walking around whatever's
on the table, and does like to watch.  

Mostly she gets upset when I shove the hose for my venting system out
through the cat door when I'm soldering...she's either in or out for the
duration then.

As far as my dog goes, I think she just wishes I'd spend more time at the
beach with her than I do in the studio.  She's learned to stay well clear
whenever I'm moving full sheets or completed panels.  It's about the only
time she's not underfoot.

Cheers

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 22:33:07 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Q about layout guides
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:10:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.201041.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.42248.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have a technique for making irregular layout jigs for any shape panel
and it is sort of automatic.

I always draw my patterns on poster board.  I cut up the poster board
into patterns to draw around and mark my glass.  If I want a layout jig,
I just draw the pattern in the middle of the sheet of poster board, then
I cut the shape right out of the center of the poster board while keeping
the outline intact.  Then I build up patches of masking tape ,  about 6
layers thick, on the back of the poster board, about every two inches. 
The masking tape holds the poster board about 1/16 of an inch above the
table so that it is deep enough to hold my glass in.  It is always a
perfect fit too, because it came right from around  the actual original 
pattern!

Gary Dodge            Dodge Studio Designs           www.dodgestudio.com



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>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 22:34:08 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: my cat deceased
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:34:34 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.143434.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I too, used to have a shop cat....large warm light table major perch for
her. She died of old age at 16+ years. We used to chase mice and shrews in
the shop....fun for her, exercise for me, tough on the mice!

As for glass in the paws....never noticed any. I sometimes work or walk
around in the shop in stocking or bare feet. No chips have my feet picked up
yet, major point....do NOT shuffle.

Also keep no aids to staunch bleeding in my shop...bleeding is not
acceptable! Cuts are not badges of honor. The kitchen is a much more
dangerous place than a glass shop!

enjoy, H




weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 22:43:31 1998
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X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid
From: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Creative storage
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:42:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.204225.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bungians,

 1.   My pegboard is a lifesaver for storage attach hooks in pegboard and
 hang ziploc bags for small stuff, see thru and easy to find everything.
Plus I hang most of my tools when not in use...LOL

2. I attached an old toothbrush holders and hang various small items from
there.

3.I ran across a heavy fiberboard small bar with drawers,cupboard and
winebottle sections...Grinder sits on top...best thing I ever purchase for
$20.00.(Garage Sale)

4.Your local fruit and vegetable market usually has small wooden sided
boxes, cardboard on the bottom,  ( lettuce and other perishables come in
those)  that fit small pieces of glass perfectly and usually they are FREE
if you ask.

5.  Saw horses with plexiglass on top, with a small fluorescence stick light
on the floor for coordinating color combinations.

6. I love the ideas about gutters but I have plastic plumbing and put came
in there and is placed across garage door hanger hinges at the back.

That's all I can think of so far...

Jill
jazzykid@tir.com



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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 23:02:15 1998
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X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:57:21 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.125721.0>
References: <<199802030033.TAA18478@mime4.prodigy.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service  & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Yeah Mike, how 'bout it?

Shirley
Grapeland, Tx.

BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> 
> well... i do what i can... :)
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> How about editing the text of the messages you respond to.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 23:08:48 1998
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Not doing badly!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:31:09 +0000
Message-ID: <199802030235.CAA16829@pluto.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dani!
Thank you!
Will contact you off-group...
Would really, really want to explore Muslim designs much more. 
Totally disaccossiated from my Godson, had several e-mails from 
Architects etc in Turkey and elsewhere in the Muslim world last 
couple of weeks. Like I always wanted to try my hand at Celtic 
designs, I also want to try my hand at some of the Mulsim geometric 
designs (although I will probably curse every single cut).
Sinan (my Godson) and I went to see the film "The Titanic" the other 
day. The visual effects were stunning; tomorrow he will be visiting 
the BBC, have a balloon ride over London, visiting the London 
Transport Museum and finish the evening by going to watch the musical 
"Starlight Express".  His little (leaded)  stained glass project is 
REALLY beginning to take shape and I am really quite proud of him!
It's freezing here.
Got to run, I have a dead-line of 10 days to deliver 1 of 2 panels. 
Will be in touch off-group!
Thanks for your patience.
Love from 
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 23:15:13 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Tour of English Stained Glass ... reduced!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:31:09 +0000
Message-ID: <199802030235.CAA16854@pluto.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

The British Pound Sterling is pretty strong at the moment. It 
currently stands at about 1.73/4  US Dollars to the Pound, which 
still makes the cost of this trip extraordinarily expensive at 
approx.  UK Sterling  2,240. For that price I would expect 
accommodation at the Claridges' Hotel.  At prices like this, it would 
seem that the accommodation is more important than the 
content/purpose of the trip.And it lasts for 8 (eight) days - 
including arrival/departure  days, which tend to be "dead" days 
anyhow. (So in effect 6 days....?).
I have said this before.
It's fine, if you have got money to burn.
 I just don't want anyone Across the Pond to think that this is a 
kind of a  MINIMUM budget to give value for money. It isn't.(In UK 
this represents almost 3 months " middle average" salary. A lot of 
people earn perhaps UK Pounds 400 - 500 per month - just so that you 
get the perspective). I just would not like to think that anyone from 
Across the Pond, wishing to visit this little Island to get the 
impression that  to see, experience, hearing about, learning about 
stained glass in UK requires this kind of budget. A lot of these 
high-light programmes/lectures/talks you listed in UK Albert, are 
free or at a quite nominal cost (even more so if in a group). . I 
myself have attended a number of them. That's All .....
"Starvers" and serious students of stained glass in UK, please do 
not be deterred or feel despondent.
Julie Sloan will just adore me...!     :-( 
Elisabeth in UK (steps off soap-box and wishes Julie the greatest of 
success!)
 Sorry , .....Toby sleeps! Not to be disturbed!

Albert wrote:
 We just heard from the organizer of the tour of English 
stained glass, which will be led by Julie L. Sloan next July (11-19). 
They've asked the hotel and transportation people to sharpen their 
pencils and have, as a result, come up with a lower price for the 
tour: $3,870 (but members of the Guild get a 10% discount, so they'll 
need to come up with only $3,480.)

Okay, it seems like a lot of money, but it includes good hotels, 
excellent transportation, and great food. Not to mention Julie 
Sloan's expertise and undivided attention, plus you'll get together 
with Sarah Brown, author of "Glass Painters," "Stained Glass:
       An Illustrated History," and "Life, Death and Art: The
       Medieval Stained Glass of Fairford Parish Church."  

       Michael Coles, a glass historian who has been a
       consultant for English Heritage, the equivalent of The
       National Trust for Historic Preservation in the United
       States.   

       Sarianne Durie, renowned stained glass artist and restorer ...
       and a member of The Art Workers Guild.  

       Martin Harrison, well-known author of "Victorian Stained
       Glass."  

       Susan Matthews, Director of the Stained Glass Museum at
       Ely Cathedral.  

       Malcolm Pollard, a leading authority on the glass of William
       Morris.  
and
       Stephen Wildman, an expert in English Victorian glass and
       the work of the Pre-Raphaelites.   

Take a look at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/tour/
and you'll see what I mean about this being a great event that you 
won't want to miss.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 23:22:04 1998
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Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:45:58 EST
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The only thing I have different from the already listed ideas is an expandable
portfolio for my patterns.  I file them alphabetically, and number them as
well since I have about 8 angel patterns.  I keep the cut up pieces in a
regular letter size envelope with the name and number and number of pieces
written on it (in case I lose any) and insert them in the same compartment.
For the patterns that don't have names I label them Flat 1, etc, Oval flower
1, etc.  This way when I want a pattern I know exactly where to look.  I won't
take credit for this idea though, my partner was sick of seeing patterns
laying all over the house and bought it for me for Christmas.
Also the Dollar Store has all kinds of great clear boxes with compartments to
sort smaller scraps of glass.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 23:22:04 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3x within 3 hours?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:57:17 +0000
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> Hope your message got to someone
> besides the bungi crowd! ;-)

Yeah, I noticed that flub on my part. Hard to imagine, isn't it, 
myself making a dumb mistake like that? <sigh>

Albert

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 23:30:24 1998
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From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Tiffany lamps
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:52:01 -0800
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No Idea about the loop.

An oddysey catalog or worden catalog may show a like image.

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 23:39:37 1998
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From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
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Subject: Fwd: Re: Tiffany Lamp
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--WebTV-Mail-1488477025-16994
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Guess this missed getting sent.
Andrew

--WebTV-Mail-1488477025-16994
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From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:16:26 -0800
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Tiffany Lamp
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

For those wondering about the prices of Tiffany's lamps...
The following is taken from the Industry News section of US Glass,
January 1998

A Tiffany lamp sold for $2,807,500.00 at a Christie's auction in
December, shattering the record for a work by the prestigious glass
studio.
According to "Reuters" report, the pink lotus lamp was sold to an
anonymous buyer after an estimated $2.5 million to $3.5 million during
the auction house's 20th-century decorative arts sale. The report adds
that price also set a new world auction record for any 20th-century
decorative arts object.
The auction house had billed the lamp as "the most magnificent and
important leaded glass lamp ever offered ay auction.

Now, I wonder where I should put it! :-)

Andrew Tillinghast
Neoglassic Studio

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  2 23:43:06 1998
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Subject: Re: Duplicate posts (Shirley) 
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 01:44:28 -0600
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Shirley,

Thanks!!  Best laugh I've had in awhile!  Keep that sense of humor here...
I appreciate it.

Dale

 Not only am I getting multi-posts, but
>some are "missing in action".  Must be El Nino.
>
>Shirley Suter
>Grapeland, Tx. 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The Banker's House
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<bankers@ictc.com>

"Society often forgives the criminal: it never forgives the dreamer."

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 00:23:33 1998
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Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 00:21:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.162157.0>
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I keep the cut up pieces in a
> regular letter size envelope with the name and number and number of pieces
> written on it (in case I lose any) and insert them in the same compartment.

Use zip lock bags instead of envelopes and you never have to worry about
losing pattern pieces again.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 01:09:02 1998
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:11:27 +0000
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At 20:27 02/02/98 EST, yLu Ann wrote:
>In a message dated 98-02-02 20:06:53 Mike wrote:
>
><< hough other's will disagree, you should get a better ISP that does'nt
> charge for that. >>
>
>MAYBE that is the only one in England that they have available where they have
>to pay by the minute.  Mike, no one is asking you to stop participating,  just
>snip and cut.  A little consideration is all that is being ask of you....is
>that really asking too much?
>
Thanks for the support Lu Ann - the situation here in UK is that although
some ISP's allow unlimited time through them on the internet - at a far
higher cost than those who allow say 3 hours free and any time over at about
4 dollars an hour, we are still charged for our phone calls by the phone
companies - whichever one we are using, so any ISP charges are in addition
to the basic cost of using the phone lines.
Hopefully with a little more competition - it is being suggested that one
day we will be able to access the WWW and internet via our electricity cable
(I think) or through our cable TV supplier - the costs will come down in the
future.
As is, I download my email (75 today thanks to lots of bungi input, keep it
coming) and read/respond off line, then log back on and send all my
messages, so I keep the cost down.  
But the cost of being on line does limit my participation in live chat
groups and putting in my 6 penn'orth on bulletin boards - so perhaps its not
a bad thing ;-)
Elizabeth & Sam
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 01:22:07 1998
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Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:24:06 +0000
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At 19:38 02/02/98 -0500, Dani wrote:

>You shouldn't stand your came boxes
>upright- leave them lying flat.  We have
>metal shelf brackets on the walls to stack the
>boxes the same way you would use a
>shelf on the brackets. 

If you dont buy enough lead came to build up a stock of lead boxes for
storage, how about using drainpipe and guttering (what we in UK call the
plastic tubes and C section stuff used to carry rainwater from the roof to
the drains)
Our students and other customers often surprise our neighbours by arriving
looking as if they are jobbing plumbers (especially the 60+ year old ladies)
clutching these plastic tubes which are great for transporting lead - even
strapped on top of a small car - and you can use the attachment clips for
the c section guttering to fix several on the wall to seperate different
profiles of lead came
Elizabeth & Sam
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 02:47:14 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Duplicate posts & Studio cats
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:45:41 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.104541.0>
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In a message dated 98-02-02 23:51:54 EST, you write:

<< I seem to be getting posts in
 duplicate and triplicate again...
 anyone else?
  >>

yes, Dani, I too am getting duplicates and triplicates, which wouldn't be too
bad of a thing except one of them is my response to the fastener strap that
Shirley ask about and I identified it wrong, so, I certainly don't like being
mistaken once let alone 2 or 3 times (laughing).  I am enjoying your pregnant
male cat issue as much as I enjoyed the interpretation of who was sent to the
other room.  

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 02:58:30 1998
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From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:08:35 -0600
Message-ID: <199802031055.EAA22690@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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>I believe the size of the squares in a chess board are cut to match
>the size of the pieces.

Good morning ,

Can this thread evolve into a discussion on SG chess pieces? designing and
fabbing SG chess pieces has been on my list of "projects that I probably
will never do in a million years but still enjoy thinking about once in a
while"

My design ideas have never gotten past basic  pyramidal shaped pieces for
the pawns

What knowledge does bungi have on this subject?

Len


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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: my cat deceased
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:58:58 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-03 01:35:27 EST, you write:

<<  No chips have my feet picked up
 yet, major point....do NOT shuffle. >>

<< We used to chase mice and shrews in
the shop....fun for her, exercise for me, tough on the mice!>>

I have been missing your humor of late!!  Thank you, I needed a good laugh
this morning.  I find your humor so much like my father's, who is retired with
my mother in Florida.  Talk to them often but it's not the same as having them
close by.  Your humor is wonderful.  I look forward to your posts whether they
be humorous or serious.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 04:12:15 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Creative Storage!
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:11:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.2113.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Better than zip lock bags... I buy the see-thru bags that collectors =
store comic books in and I store cartoons and matching cutout mylar =
patterns for projects that I have done. That way I have everything ready =
should I want to do another one.

I have a 5" binder that I store ideas, tips that I have down loaded from =
the net and directions for equipment like the grinder and the =
scoreboard.

Linda 
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 04:37:41 1998
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From: Susan Jordan Bennett <sjb@cape.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Q about layout guides
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 07:31:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.23159.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.201041.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Such a simple, but good idea. Thanks Gary.

Susan

dodgestudio@juno.com wrote:
> 
> I have a technique for making irregular layout jigs for any shape panel
> and it is sort of automatic.
> 
> I always draw my patterns on poster board.  I cut up the poster board
> into patterns to draw around and mark my glass.  If I want a layout jig,
> I just draw the pattern in the middle of the sheet of poster board, then
> I cut the shape right out of the center of the poster board while keeping
> the outline intact.  Then I build up patches of masking tape ,  about 6
> layers thick, on the back of the poster board, about every two inches.
> The masking tape holds the poster board about 1/16 of an inch above the
> table so that it is deep enough to hold my glass in.  It is always a
> perfect fit too, because it came right from around  the actual original
> pattern!
> 
> Gary Dodge            Dodge Studio Designs           www.dodgestudio.com
> 
> >----
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> >
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> 
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 05:42:43 1998
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To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chess Boards 
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 08:38:06 -0500
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I was looking at this one for more of a checker board for my kids. They love to
play with the blobs at the store and have picked out green and yellow to use in
place of checkers on their board. This was just an experiment with scrap glass I
had in my box:))
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Chess Boards 
From:    <glass@bungi.com > at internet-mail
Date:    2/2/98  7:21 PM

Whatever you do do not use solder containing lead. Lead free solder 
from the hardware store will do the trick. I understand that younger 
developing people are less tollerant of lead than older people that 
do not need any.

I believe the size of the squares in a chess board are cut to match 
the size of the pieces. 3/4" seems small.
Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow 
Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 05:49:55 1998
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From: Phil <mdcglas@hawk.rmplc.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 98 13:51:27 +0000
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Mike S wrote
>though other's will disagree, you should get a better ISP that does'nt
>charge for that. and besides, what listed above is very confusing. i've
>seen people clip it so much that i have no idea what they're responding
>to. and what was there to edit on the line above, what 4 lines...?
>
>
>---Mike Savad

Mike,

Those of us in the UK have to pay the phone charges to connect to our 
ISPs (no free local calls here!)

Phil
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From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Duplicate posts & Studio cats
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 07:44:40 -0800
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Michael J. Greer wrote:
> 
> I seem to be getting posts in
> duplicate and triplicate again...
> anyone else?
> 
YES!

-- 


Blessings;

Laurean



Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one

another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 05:53:31 1998
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Subject: Re: Chess Boards
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:53:01 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-03 08:49:08 EST, you write:

<< This was just an experiment with scrap glass I
 had in my box:)) >>

Yes, but look at all the interest there is in chessboards and now it's gone on
to the actual chess pieces, all being made out of glass.  This is something
I've been pondering myself, as it seems, so have a few others.  Thanks for
getting it started.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 06:00:32 1998
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From: Stephanie Hansen <sgt@glasstreasures.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Malcolm Miller - US visit
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 07:59:05 -0600
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This may be a duplicate post, but I never saw the original come through and
felt it was worth sending again.  My apologies if it's a repeat.

A subscriber to my web site e-mail list sent me this...I think it was
mentioned on the list before, but now that it's only a couple of weks away,
I thought a reminder wouldn't hurt.  Anybody in the area who goes - enjoy
it for the rest of us!!

"I thought you or any of you subscribers might be interested to know that
Malcolm Miller a world-renowned lecturer on Chartres Cathedral is coming to
Salem, Ma. on Feb. 19 at 7:30pm. to speak at Immaculate Conception Church
on the subject of the stained glass, sculptures and architecture of
Chartres.  For more info you can contact Pam Greaves at (978)745-3050
(parish secretary).  "

Steph ~

P.S. to Elisabeth (spelled it right this time!) - my subscriber sent this
to me because she saw the bit on your reaction to Chartres that you
graciously allowed me to add to my site - thanks again!


-----------------------------------
Stephanie Hansen - Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX
Affordable stained glass pieces for gifts or personal use
Enter the sweepstakes to win a stained glass suncatcher!
<http://glasstreasures.com/>   <mailto:sgt@glasstreasures.com>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 06:03:41 1998
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X-Path: mail1.ciwemb.edu!jewell
From: "Connie Jewell" <jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: 3 Feb 1998 09:00:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.408.0>
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                      RE>Creative Storage!                         2/3/98

  One thing I have found that works great for storing & using glass tools (ie.
cutters push pins, rulers, breaking pliers & such) is an under the desk
computer key board tray. I had one left after changing to a new computer
table(which came with one) . SO I mounted the old one on the under side of my
work bench and it's wonderful. It has a little flip up draw which I store my
cutters, push pins, razor blades and layout blocks in . And then the flat
space where the keyboard would sit I place all my hand tools. This way they
are not all over my work bench but at the same time right where I can reach
them with one hand if necessary. And it slides under the bench top so it
doesn't take up any space. If you have limited space and you can lay your
hands one of these draws, it works great!

Jewell
jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu


--------------------------------------
Date: 2/2/98 4:08 PM
To: Connie Jewell
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From: TifStyOrig@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Creative Storage!
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:50:11 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb2.205011.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Today as I was munching on Pringles potato chips and thought, "hmmmm, a good
container, what glass-related items could I store in this?"

In this age of small spaces, and tight corners, I throw the question out to
this group - what creative storage ideas have you come up with?

Some creative ideas have been shared in the past, ie., milk crates for storing
glass, pc pipe for storing long pieces of came and zinc, small square kleenex
boxes for.....(what was that you used those for Steph~?).

Those who feel inspired, please share your ideas.  I have a make-shift studio
in my garage that suits me well, but I have so many little items strewn about
here and there........and it might be fun to see what people have come up with
to store those odd items.

Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
Delray Beach, FL
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 06:04:28 1998
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From:         HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu
To:           glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:      Re: Creative Storage!
Date:         Tue, 03 Feb 98 08:58:20 EST
Message-ID:   <980203.090244.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
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We are going to 9 x 12 envelopes and putting a picture of the pattern
on the outside of the envelope.  We too have many roses and angels, etc.
and I'm not going to remember if rose 3 or rose 5 is the one I want.
This way, they'll fit nicely into the file cabinet and we'll be able
to see immediately if we have what we want.  My husband is presently
running up our popular patterns on Glass Eye, so we'l be cross-referncing
to disk, too.  This will allow us to rescale patterns easily and to
take that butterfly and this flower and put them together in a new
pattern.  (he's getting very good at it, BTW)
Dorothy K

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 06:45:10 1998
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From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Glass Enthusiasts <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: triplicate postings
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 12:43:13 -0500
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I, too, am receiving everything in triplicate today!  And I thought it
was just my popularity increasing. . . .Nadine

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 07:04:42 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Duplicate posts
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:01:15 -0500
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Shirley Suter wrote:
> 
> Thank you, Dani!  I've been rebooting everything in sight
> thinking it was us.  Not only am I getting multi-posts, but
> some are "missing in action".  Must be El Nino.
> 
> Shirley Suter
> Grapeland, Tx.
> 
> Dani Greer wrote:
> >
> > I seem to be getting posts in
> > duplicate and triplicate again...
> > anyone else?
> ----

i've been getting them too. and it's kind of confusing, becuase there
would be a a bunch of messages, then the exact same bunch mixed into new
stuff. i've almost replied a few times to the repeats.

---Mike Savad



-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 07:13:57 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:11:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.5111.0>
References: <<199802031055.EAA22690@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
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len alcamo wrote:
> 
> >I believe the size of the squares in a chess board are cut to match
> >the size of the pieces.
> 
> Good morning ,
> 
> Can this thread evolve into a discussion on SG chess pieces? designing and
> fabbing SG chess pieces has been on my list of "projects that I probably
> will never do in a million years but still enjoy thinking about once in a
> while"
> 
> My design ideas have never gotten past basic  pyramidal shaped pieces for
> the pawns
> 
> What knowledge does bungi have on this subject?
> 
> Len
> 
> ----

i've thought about it from time to time these are the only things i
could come up with (and currently i may not have the sources to do it):

using flat glass, cornered up on it self. like thos ugly 3-d flowers.
the center would be solid, and the sides would hold the center up, over
the top it would form a plus sign.

if i knew how to carve, i could make a cast and make it out of metal
like bronze.

i've seen chess pieces done in blown glass, though not terribly usable

large marbles with flat bottoms could work, each one would have it's
symbol inside surrounded by clear. the knight would have a horse head in
it, etc.

small slumped glass things could be made up. either by having a split
slump and soldering the seam. or by slumping it into a mold of some
kind, though that may look like a ghost when done.


other than that, checkers is about the easiest thing to make.


another intresting board i found was this battle chess board thing
http://www.rainbow.co.nz/karal/Battle/Battle-chess.html 

it's different anyway.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 07:19:56 1998
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X-Path: flash.net!artglass
From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: creative storage
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 08:17:38 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.01738.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: The Ivory Express
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
Can you use one more for creative storage?  I don't have the Pringle can
but I do have Crystal Light cans.  When I have strips of half inch wide
and long glass strips I break them into half inch squares and use the
Crystal Light cans to store them in.  The cans are marked with the color
and I have pre-made mosaic pieces when I need them.
Dianne
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 07:26:00 1998
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To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Creative Storage!
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:24:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.52441.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Diane Manchester asked about creative storage ideas.

For storing small stuff like push pens, etc., I have an old
spice rack with the 10 little bottles.  I have that hanging
on the wall right next to my soldering table.

I store small pieces of glass in old 4.25" computer diskette
boxes.  For larger pieces I store them in old LP record racks
or old computer mainframe tape storage racks.  Can you tell
I used to be a computer nerd in my former life?

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 07:39:14 1998
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X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover
From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Barn window
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:30:32 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.13032.0>
References: <<199802011654.LAA27920@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool
Precedence: bulk

Hi, I found a 3 paned barn window frame in my barn a couple months
back, and I would love to incorporate some glasswork in it!  I figure
with the barn siding craze, I actually might be able to sell it!
The outside diameter of the frame is 14.25" x 28.00"  Each of the
openings are 8.00" x 10.00". The depth is 1/2".  I am wondering if I
should put a different farm animal in each one or possibly a different
flower in each one, and how much should I charge?  I know I asked about
pricing last week, and might sound tedious.  Should I add the total 
dimension (frame included) and go by the sq. inch?  Also would I use
points to hold the panels in?  Thanks for bearing with me!
 

Blessings;

Laurean



Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one

another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 07:40:29 1998
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X-Path: flash.net!artglass
From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: cats and glass
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 08:38:25 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.03825.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: The Ivory Express
Precedence: bulk

I too have studio cats and they rule.  Most of the time they lay on my
pattern on the light table where it's warm.  Usually they lay right
where I'm working and get indignant when I have to move them. I couldn't
work, though, without their participation.
Also, back to the Tiffany...good idea to look at Worden and Odessey
patterns.  I don't recall anything that looks like the shade that I
have.  It is not really intricate so I'm really curious as to who could
have made it.
Thanks for the input.
Dianne
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 07:43:06 1998
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BD308F.D2D56960
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all. I'm new here and really enjoying the discussions.

Mom gave me her supplies, including some dish drainer racks that are very handy for storing smaller sheets of glass.

Kris

PS Hi neighbor (sort of) I'm in Sarasota :)


In this age of small spaces, and tight corners, I throw the question out to
this group - what creative storage ideas have you come up with?


Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
Delray Beach, FL

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------ =_NextPart_000_01BD308F.D2D56960--

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 08:06:50 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:00:09 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.409.0>
References: <<199802031055.EAA22690@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Summit Stained Glass  (see us at:  http://www.summitstudio.com)
Precedence: bulk

len alcamo wrote:
> 
> Good morning ,
> 
> Can this thread evolve into a discussion on SG chess pieces? designing and
> fabbing SG chess pieces has been on my list of "projects that I probably
> will never do in a million years but still enjoy thinking about once in a
> while"
> 
> Len
> 


Hmmmmm ..... just a thought ..... I wonder if you could make some molds
of pawns, knights, bishops, etc, and slump scrap glass into them.  Of
course, you'd have to sort through your scraps to find COE compatible
colors.  But, it's an idea.

Mike Peck
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 08:27:37 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: triplicate postings
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:26:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.62650.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



For the past week I have been getting multiple postings, not just of =
bungi, of everything. Our computer gurus say that my computer is not =
deleting things from the main server once my computer downloads it. I =
figured it was a local problem. I don't think that it could be anything =
that bungi is doing but it sure is odd that others are having similar =
problems.


Linda Campbell



Nadine said

I, too, am receiving everything in triplicate today!  And I thought it
was just my popularity increasing. . . .Nadine



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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 08:43:06 1998
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X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye
From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: creative storage
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:40:55 CST 6CDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: GSA-ORSP
Precedence: bulk

I do have Crystal Light cans. <snip>
----
Me too.  I use the little individual tubs for small amounts of patina 
or flux (to avoid contaminating the big bottle) but now I think I 
like the film canister idea better (just got a 35mm camera for 
Christmas).

I keep a big Crystal Light can in my bird seed--works great for 
refilling my bird feeders (sorry, not glass-related).   My 
intended-someday-for-mosaics scraps have been accumulating in a 
little plastic box, but it's almost full.  And I can see how 
color-sorting would be a plus.  Thanks for that idea!

I have some old metal shelving (Sears) that has been taken apart 
and reassembled countless times.  When originally purchased it 
was bookcases in my college apartment(s).  I'm happy to report that 
many years later it is no longer a fixture of my living room, but is 
now used in a corner of the basement to store glass.  Right now there 
are just stacks (of color groups) between layers of newspaper.  I 
have plans to eventually get racks so I can store it vertically.

My local retailer has recently added a wall to divide some space in 
the studio.  He left the end of the wall open and stored his various 
sizes of zinc and copper in heavy cardboard tubes stacked inside the 
wall.

I have a milk crate than holds pendaflex hanging files.  I use them 
to keep smaller patterns, keeper tips from bungi, ideas clipped from 
magazines and catalogs, info on glass places to visit when traveling, 
etc.

Kaye
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 09:16:10 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Chemical Reaction Flux/Plastic Containers
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:16:16 -0800
Message-ID: <199802031708.JAA15009@intergate.lasercom.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> I use the little individual tubs for small amounts of patina 
> or flux (to avoid contaminating the big bottle) but now I think I 
> like the film canister idea better (just got a 35mm camera for 
> Christmas).
 
> Kaye
---------------

Several of you have mentioned using the empty film canisters for flux (I
use little jars the size of baby food jars).  I would question if there
might not be a problem with chemical reaction between the flux and the
plastic containers?  Anyone have any ideas on this?

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 09:23:53 1998
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X-Path: mfi.net!jcampbell
From: "jcampbell" <jcampbell@mfi.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 13:07:11 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.21711.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.205011.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

We use clear plastic ice cream tubs for storing glass and gift wrap tubes
for storing patterns.

----------
> 
> Today as I was munching on Pringles potato chips and thought, "hmmmm, a
good
> container, what glass-related items could I store in this?"
> 
> In this age of small spaces, and tight corners, I throw the question out
to
> this group - what creative storage ideas have you come up with?
> 
> Some creative ideas have been shared in the past, ie., milk crates for
storing
> glass, pc pipe for storing long pieces of came and zinc, small square
kleenex
> boxes for.....(what was that you used those for Steph~?).
> 
> Those who feel inspired, please share your ideas.  I have a make-shift
studio
> in my garage that suits me well, but I have so many little items strewn
about
> here and there........and it might be fun to see what people have come up
with
> to store those odd items.
> 
> Diane Manchester
> Tiffany Styled Originals
> Delray Beach, FL
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 09:40:06 1998
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From: "jcampbell" <jcampbell@mfi.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Re: Duplicate posts & Studio cats
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 13:22:49 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.212249.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.184816.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Yes, triplicate-no wonder so many messages when I opened my box, half are
repeats.

----------
> 
> I seem to be getting posts in
> duplicate and triplicate again...
> anyone else?
> 
> Bob says:
> 
> "People who do not like cats belong
> in another room."  =
> 
> 
> Too hysterical, Bob.  Michael and I
> are still laughing ourselves silly!;-0
> We, too, have a "pregnant" male
> cat!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 09:40:41 1998
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From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Not doing badly!
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:32:03 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.17323.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-02 21:50:40 EST, you write:

<< Would really, really want to explore Muslim designs much more.  >>


I would be interested as well in some Muslim designs. Thanks.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 09:57:34 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Margaret41
From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chess Boards
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:40:00 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.17400.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-02 23:09:46 EST, you write:

<< If you are purchasing the chess pieces seperately, choose "Staunton"
 pattern. This style is recognized throughtout the world.
  >>

Where can this be purchased? Thanks
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 10:02:40 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: ideas for chess pieces
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:07:21 -0600
Message-ID: <199802031756.LAA06948@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Andrew

I wasn't aware that there were defined patterns for chess pieces

What style do you think would be most adaptable to some of the techniques
mentioned below?

Would the Stuanton style be the most common one I would recognize.... like
in a cheap plastic set?

Other then the pawns, which should be the easy part , there only needs to be
the five forms of the pieces in the back row. If they could be depicted in a
easy to recognize simplified geometric form I think that would be half the
battle at least in the sense of the skills and the techniques available to
most bunginians

>If you are purchasing the chess pieces seperately, choose "Staunton"
>pattern. This style is recognized throughtout the world.

Andrew

stacked and glued flat pieces  finished off with a different jewel for each
piece type

a foiled geometric base maybe a cone with the top cut off and use finials or
some other solderable findings to represent the form of the piece?

Len

>using flat glass, cornered up on it self. like thos ugly 3-d flowers.
>the center would be solid, and the sides would hold the center up, over
>the top it would form a plus sign.

>large marbles with flat bottoms could work, each one would have it's
>symbol inside surrounded by clear. the knight would have a horse head in
>it, etc.
>
>small slumped glass things could be made up. either by having a split
>slump and soldering the seam. or by slumping it into a mold of some
>kind, though that may look like a ghost when done.

Mike Savad

Hmmmmm ..... just a thought ..... I wonder if you could make some molds
of pawns, knights, bishops, etc, and slump scrap glass into them.  Of
course, you'd have to sort through your scraps to find COE compatible
colors.  But, it's an idea.

Mike Peck

>


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 10:22:13 1998
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X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass
From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Malcolm Miller - US visit
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:18:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802031818.NAA25418@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Steph wrote,

>
>"I thought you or any of you subscribers might be interested to know that
>Malcolm Miller a world-renowned lecturer on Chartres Cathedral is coming to
>Salem, Ma. on Feb. 19 at 7:30pm. to speak at Immaculate Conception Church
>on the subject of the stained glass, sculptures and architecture of
>Chartres.  For more info you can contact Pam Greaves at (978)745-3050
>(parish secretary).  "
>
>This is a must if you are in the area!!!  There is no one like Mr. Miller and
you probably won't get a chance to see him in person again in the US.
As for his information on Chartres Cathedral?
You will think you died and went to Heaven.  There is nothing to compare.
I have listened personally to Mr. Miller at least a dozen times and
every time I learn something new about the Cathedral. And am mesmerized by
it all.

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 10:33:52 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: id lamp
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:32:49 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.23249.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Diane.

Try a library, look for The Lamps of Tiffany                    Nuestadt
                                    The lamps of Tiffany Studios
Duncan/Feldstein


Good reference sources....covers most shades Nuestadt......FIRST choice,
real deep!

Lots of lamps made by may other companies 30's and earlier.

enjoy, H
weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 10:35:28 1998
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Barn window
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:32:59 -0800
Message-ID: <199802031832.KAA08142@norm.island.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>Hi, I found a 3 paned barn window frame in my barn a couple months
>back, and I would love to incorporate some glasswork in it!  I figure
>with the barn siding craze, I actually might be able to sell it!
>The outside diameter of the frame is 14.25" x 28.00"  Each of the
>openings are 8.00" x 10.00". The depth is 1/2".  I am wondering if I
>should put a different farm animal in each one or possibly a different
>flower in each one, and how much should I charge?  I know I asked about

What about putting together a scene that flows from one window to the
next...be it incorporating animals, flowers or whatever?  To my eye that
would be more pleasing than 3 simple static images.

I won't address the pricing issue since it's well documented in the archives

Good luck

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 10:43:25 1998
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From: "jcampbell" <jcampbell@mfi.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 13:07:11 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.21711.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.205011.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

We use clear plastic ice cream tubs for storing glass and gift wrap tubes
for storing patterns.

----------
> 
> Today as I was munching on Pringles potato chips and thought, "hmmmm, a
good
> container, what glass-related items could I store in this?"
> 
> In this age of small spaces, and tight corners, I throw the question out
to
> this group - what creative storage ideas have you come up with?
> 
> Some creative ideas have been shared in the past, ie., milk crates for
storing
> glass, pc pipe for storing long pieces of came and zinc, small square
kleenex
> boxes for.....(what was that you used those for Steph~?).
> 
> Those who feel inspired, please share your ideas.  I have a make-shift
studio
> in my garage that suits me well, but I have so many little items strewn
about
> here and there........and it might be fun to see what people have come up
with
> to store those odd items.
> 
> Diane Manchester
> Tiffany Styled Originals
> Delray Beach, FL
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 11:04:14 1998
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Subject: Re: Creative Storage! You asked for it.!
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:50:30 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.185030.0>
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Its a ratchet tiedown, get a good one cause some are useless take it from
someone who has to tiedown appliances for shipment.  Sears sells nice ones and
I understand the 4-wheeler places have good ones too.  I prefer the ones that
you just pull and push button release, they have less of a chance of locking
up on you
deb
> The jack it permenantly connected to one end of the strap. You slide the
>  other end of the strap through the jack and then crank it tight, just
>  like you would jack up a car.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 11:09:59 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Storing Came
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:07:16 -0500
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Hi Steph-

If the zinc came is less than 1/4 inch
they, too, might get a little distorted =

after standing on end for any length
of time.  Otherwise, you should be
okay.  I guess this thread is a good
example of vague communication!
Never even thought of zinc since we
never use it. ;-)

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & STudios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 11:11:34 1998
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Subject: Re: Chess Boards
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:23:03 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.17233.0>
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Back in 1981, I designed a chess board, including the pieces, for a
renaissance fair in which I participated.  My brother designed the base of the
table to match the base of the chess pieces.  We installed florescent light
under the board, and fit the board right into the middle of the base table.  I
must say (and I don't usually like to toot my horn), it is quite a unique
piece.

The chess board squares are 2" square.  I used purple with white streaky for
one side, and a creamy white with purple streaky for the opposite side.  For
the pieces, I used the same contrasting glass, and added purple water glass
for accent spires on some of the pieces.  I used clock parts (the arms - cut
in half) for the king, queen and bishop tops.  The castle, pawn and horse
stand 4" assembled into two sections, and the bishop, queen and king, upwards
to 6", also in two sections.

I have had no problem with sagging (thank goodness).  I used copper foil to
complete the project.  As mentioned, a frame was made to fit the board into
the middle of the table base.  It if fully functional and very sturdy.
Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner, or graphic program to create a .jpeg
picture to share.  Perhaps this gives some ideas, however, on how to go about
making glass pieces.

Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
Delray Beach, FL
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 11:19:09 1998
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Subject: pronounce
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:16:47 +0000
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how do you pronounce Youghiogheny. ?
Myrddn

Solder while the iron is hot
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 11:22:36 1998
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Subject: Re: Shirley's Amazing Essay!
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:50:31 EST
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I had a cat that had babies on a box of broken lightbulbs, and another that
loves to sleep in a big box of glass we had collected from a broken sliding
glaass door does that answer your question LOL
deb

> .do cats know better than to walk on bits of glass?
>  
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 11:56:38 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
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Subject: semi-circular windows...thanks
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:41:06 -0800
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I'd like to say thanks to everyone who replied to my question last week
about fitting semi-circular windows.  Turns out that I didn't have to go up
the ladder (yet) since they had another studio come two years ago and make a
template...the studio never delivered the piece so the owners are going to
go get the template for me.  In the meantime I'm doing a room divider for
their bathroom...when I deliver that I'll just have to zip up the ladder and
check the template.  

In the meantime, though I've been making a semi-circle template for a much
smaller bathroom window elsewhere...just had to go up a stool for that and
found all the bungi suggestions REALLY helpful to plan a method of doing
it...it's hard to think with a client peering over my shoulder!!!  I do have
another problem though...this piece is for a semi-circle which has a regular
sliding window below it.  The problem...it's going to take skyhooks to keep
it up since it's all one window without a ledge between the semi-circle and
the sliding portion to rest the flat side of the glass on.

Anyone know how to do install this???  Where do I buy skyhooks...anyone got
a source for them <g>

Dawn, you're great.  I want to acknowledge how helpful your files from the
archives have been.  It must have taken a LONG time to put it all together.

Thanks 

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 12:03:34 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: creative storage
Date: Tue,  3 Feb 1998 14:59:18, -0500
Message-ID: <199802031959.OAA20832@mime4.prodigy.com>
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I hope this one has not been given. I use plastic shoe boxes that 
cost about $1.00. Very handy for storing small projects or kiln 
findings for future use. Use to hold bevels for a project to avoid 
scratching, etc. Sometimes give to customers when they buy custom 
bevels.
Bob

Ps: For the first time I have been receiving duplicate posts. Some 
big srever must be trying to chalk up a record for use.

____
Bob Duchesneau (Freeway's mother) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 
26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 12:19:42 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
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Subject: Re: Duplicate posts
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:18:10 -0800
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>i've been getting them too. and it's kind of confusing, becuase there
>would be a a bunch of messages, then the exact same bunch mixed into new
>stuff. i've almost replied a few times to the repeats.
>
>---Mike Savad

Eeek, Mike...that would mean some of us would be getting quadruplicates...
Actually I don't think I'm getting duplicates, just poorly edited replies.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 12:22:42 1998
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Subject: Re: Glass sites in VA, WV, KY, IN, IL
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 14:40:37 PST
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Jim,

Thank you for the wonderful suggestions and directions.  I'm thrilled
to find out about the Chrysler Museum of Art.  It turns out that it's not 
very many blocks away from where I will be, so will make that my first
detour.  THANKS!

Dawn
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 12:55:07 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
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Subject: Re: pronounce
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:56:06 +0000
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> how do you pronounce Youghiogheny. ?

Yock-uh-gay-nee ... although the "ck" in "yock" is kind of soft. At 
least that's how I *think it's pronounced.

Albert

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 12:55:09 1998
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Subject: RE: triplicate postings
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:40:55 -0500
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I am getting duplicates only from
bungi, not from anyone else, so I
don't think it's my server.  This time
and in previous duplicate mailings
it only happens with the bungi posts.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 12:57:55 1998
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Subject: Re: Malcolm Miller - US visit
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:40:42 -0500
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You lucky people in Massachusetts -
I am soooo jealous!  Is there any =

chance of getting Mr. Miller's lecture
on video and sharing with the rest
of us?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 12:57:56 1998
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Subject: Chemical Reaction Flux/Plastic Containers
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:40:49 -0500
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All the flux we buy comes =

in plastic containers anyway so
I can't imagine film canisters
would be a problem.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 13:05:11 1998
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Subject: Re: my cat deceased
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:55:17 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-03 01:35:20 EST, you write:

<< I too, used to have a shop cat....large warm light table major perch for
 her. She died of old age at 16+ years. We used to chase mice and shrews in
 the shop....fun for her, exercise for me, tough on the mice!
  >>

HOWARD......its time to get a new cat !!!!!  and to visit your local animal
shelter..the best cats come from there! :))  
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 13:27:42 1998
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Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:27:15 -0600
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Organization: Summit Stained Glass  (see us at:  http://www.summitstudio.com)
Precedence: bulk

Myrddn wrote:
> 
> how do you pronounce Youghiogheny. ?
> Myrddn

Well,  I've always said ..... Yah-koo-gany.

Mike
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 13:42:15 1998
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From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
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Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:47:56 -0600
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Tell me you're kidding, Albert.  Now I feel sooooo foolish
(<--naaah, not really!).  I've always called it "Yoga hey
knee".  Sheesh!  From now on, it's Yo!

Shirley
Grapeland, Tx. 

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > how do you pronounce Youghiogheny. ?
> 
> Yock-uh-gay-nee ... although the "ck" in "yock" is kind of soft. At
> least that's how I *think it's pronounced.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 13:42:53 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: cats and glass
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:25:38 EST
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I have to share my workspace with my cat.  Unfortunately, she gets to spend
more time there than I do.  There are wooden boxes with glass in them on the
floor.  She is constantly rubbing her face on the edges of the glass.  It used
to worry me at first but she has never cut herself.  Then, about two weeks ago
I discovered that she had dived off a workbench and used a crate of glass with
3 ft. pieces of glass standing vertically as a springboard!   The cat is fine.
The glass........is for small projects now.

The moral of the story is--- Protect your shop!  The cats can take care of
themselves!

Theresa
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 13:47:37 1998
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From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:39:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.73957.0>
References: <<m0xznpf-00006jC@daver.bungi.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool
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Myrddn wrote:
> 
> how do you pronounce Youghiogheny. ?
> Myrddn



I believe it is pronounce yokagainy
-- 


Blessings;

Laurean



Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one

another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 13:54:04 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Barn window
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 13:52:08 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.5528.0>
References: <<199802031832.KAA08142@norm.island.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I vote for a blooming(not the kind Eliza Doolittle refers to) tree
branch extending throughout the window with at least 4 humming birds.
Humming Birds are very popular right now.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 14:06:44 1998
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:06:54 +0000
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>> how do you pronounce Youghiogheny. ?
>
>Yock-uh-gay-nee ... although the "ck" in "yock" is kind of soft. At 
>least that's how I *think it's pronounced.

We asked at their stand at the Dusseldorf Glass exhibition Glastec96 and
were told to pronounce it Yock-a-heeny with a hard "ck" sound.
Elizabeth & Sam
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 14:08:41 1998
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From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Barn window
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:01:16 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.8116.0>
References: <<199802031832.KAA08142@norm.island.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool
Precedence: bulk

> What about putting together a scene that flows from one window to the
> next...be it incorporating animals, flowers or whatever?  To my eye that
> would be more pleasing than 3 simple static images.
> Carol Swann
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks Carol, I didn't think of that at all!  Hmmmm, this just got
more challenging for me! I like it! 



Blessings;

Laurean



Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one

another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 14:29:16 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Duplicate posts
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:18:10 -0800
Message-ID: <199802032018.MAA31543@norm.island.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>i've been getting them too. and it's kind of confusing, becuase there
>would be a a bunch of messages, then the exact same bunch mixed into new
>stuff. i've almost replied a few times to the repeats.
>
>---Mike Savad

Eeek, Mike...that would mean some of us would be getting quadruplicates...
Actually I don't think I'm getting duplicates, just poorly edited replies.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 14:40:07 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 14:36:44 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.63644.0>
References: <<m0xzpIA-00003IC@daver.bungi.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > how do you pronounce Youghiogheny. ?
> 
> Yock-uh-gay-nee ... although the "ck" in "yock" is kind of soft. At
> least that's how I *think it's pronounced.
stained glass retailers on the west coast are comfortable pronouncing it
Yo(like Salone says in the Rocky movies)-gay-nee
Always wondered about this one myself.  It's named after an Indian
tribe, isn't it?
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 14:42:51 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cats and glass
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 14:41:01 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.6411.0>
References: <<1998Feb3.212538.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
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> 
> The moral of the story is--- Protect your shop!  The cats can take care of
> themselves!
> 
> Theresa

Here here!!!!!!!!!
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 14:51:48 1998
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From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Barn window
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:43:18 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.84318.0>
References: <<1998Feb3.5528.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool
Precedence: bulk

Shirley Balloch wrote:
> 
> I vote for a blooming(not the kind Eliza Doolittle refers to) tree
> branch extending throughout the window with at least 4 humming birds.
> Humming Birds are very popular right now.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I like this idea too!!!! Thanks!  by blooming tree branch do you
mean like apple or cherry blossoms?


Blessings;

Laurean



Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one

another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 14:51:51 1998
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From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: enough cats (mine)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:50:54 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.65054.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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We have become used to not being "owned" by a cat....had a moment of
weakness and cat-sat for a friend.  Not sure we will get another one. But
certainly do miss the used Burmese we had!

(ps "used" means someone gave us to her)

enough about cats (mine anyway) for now.

A few newsgroups dedicated to felines are out there.

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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Subject: Re: Glass sites in VA, WV, KY, IN, IL
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 14:40:37 PST
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Jim,

Thank you for the wonderful suggestions and directions.  I'm thrilled
to find out about the Chrysler Museum of Art.  It turns out that it's not 
very many blocks away from where I will be, so will make that my first
detour.  THANKS!

Dawn
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 14:54:54 1998
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From: Zane <sigglass@nb.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:58:15 -0600
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Organization: Signature Glass Company
Precedence: bulk

Take if from a real Pittsburgher (although I DON'T say "yinz" or "yunz")
who was born, raised and continues to live by the Yough River, the
correct way to say this Indian word is:

Yock-a-gay-knee

All others are merely imitations.

Zane
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 14:54:58 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chemical Reaction Flux/Plastic Containers
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:52:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.125228.0>
References: <<199802031708.JAA15009@intergate.lasercom.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jean wrote:
> 
> > I use the little individual tubs for small amounts of patina
> > or flux (to avoid contaminating the big bottle) but now I think I
> > like the film canister idea better (just got a 35mm camera for
> > Christmas).
> 
> > Kaye
> ---------------
> 
> Several of you have mentioned using the empty film canisters for flux (I
> use little jars the size of baby food jars).  I would question if there
> might not be a problem with chemical reaction between the flux and the
> plastic containers?  Anyone have any ideas on this?
> 
> ----
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flux can go into almost anything non-absorbent. as far as i know it
really does'nt react to anything, though i would'nt put it in a metal
container.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 14:56:42 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:54:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.125421.0>
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Myrddn wrote:
> 
> how do you pronounce Youghiogheny. ?
> Myrddn
> 
> Solder while the iron is hot
> ----
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yuck-a-geny

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 15:17:45 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Duplicate posts
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:10:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.13108.0>
References: <<199802032018.MAA31543@norm.island.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Carol Swann wrote:
> 
> >i've been getting them too. and it's kind of confusing, becuase there
> >would be a a bunch of messages, then the exact same bunch mixed into new
> >stuff. i've almost replied a few times to the repeats.
> >
> >---Mike Savad
> 
> Eeek, Mike...that would mean some of us would be getting quadruplicates...
> Actually I don't think I'm getting duplicates, just poorly edited replies.
> 
> Carol Swann
> Synergy Glass & Creative
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i've seen it come in a few times, but always somewhere different. kind
of a dejavu experience, especially when i go to answer it for a second
time. i release it only when i rehearse it in my head, and thinking "hmm
i thought i just wrote that..." and what makes it worse the repeats may
come days later...

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 15:26:22 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: more creative storage
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:24:48 -0800
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have my grinder inside a glass aquarium flipped on its side so the open
side is towards me.  That catches any and all grinder guck that's flung
around, as well as giving me a place to sit a small lamp for better
visibility at night.  They're cheap at a yard sale, and one that doesn't
hold water works okay for this.

Cheers

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 15:31:26 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:30:04 -0500
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Sam & Elizabeth-

I think someone was pulling
your leg about the pronunciation.
Most folks over here pronounce
it "yock-uh-gay-nee"  and I would
presume the wholesalers would
know since they call the factory
on a regular basis.  But, then
again, with a name like that.....
Now, how about Ouroboros? ;-)

Best regard,

Dani Greer =

Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 15:31:39 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Skyhooks
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:29:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.132956.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Carol-

Were you looking for left-handed
skyhooks, or right? ;)

Seriously, though, a solution for
your problem might require a tinker.
Michael's solution:

Get a length of aluminum u-channel
two inches longer than the length of
the window span. (We buy this from
a commercial glazier at about .80/ft.)
Have the handyman cut away one =

inch on the two upright sides on each
end.  Then heat-bend the remaining
middle section up to enclose the
ends of the u-channel.  Drill a hole
in each end, then screw into the window
jambs with the channel open to the top.
Then just plop the stained glass in and
finish out the half-round section as you
ordinarily would (see previous thread;-)

Or simpler, but not as attractive:

Solder two L-brackets to the bottom zinc
channel with the ell pointed down-ward.
Then attach to the window jamb with screws
on each side. Proceed as above.

Touch up both with paint to match.

Who was it said something about a picture
being worth 1,000 words.... whew!

Good luck!

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 17:15:53 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas
From: "James C. Kelly" <gcanvas@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Storing Came
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:13:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.151326.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi,  =

cheap storing came idea - =

Go to HQ/Home Depot type store
Ask for used, ready to be thrown out
carpet tubes. =

The thing carpet is wrapped around.
They are either 6 or 12 feet long.
 Pay nothing.
Cut in half lengthwise.
You now have at least two
  cheap heavy cardboard came containers.
Hang on wall or from ceiling.
We ORFS got to save somewhere.

Jim

The Glass Canvas
Virginia Beach VA/Lake Wallenpaupak PA
gcanvas@CompuServe.com
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 17:16:28 1998
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From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:41:31 -0800
Message-ID: <199802032341.PAA26861@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Zane, thank you for making this "west coaster" feel better! Your
interpretation is exactly how our studio/store has always pronounced it!
Glad to hear we are educating the public correctly!
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 17:32:08 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:21:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.152141.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

And according to our wholesalers
catalog:

Yock-a-gain-ee

What a great thread, though!

Best regards,

DAni Greer
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 17:32:09 1998
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X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:30:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.153048.0>
References: <<E0xzTzC-0001Bd-00@mail.ccti.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> In this age of small spaces, and tight corners, I throw the question out to
> this group - what creative storage ideas have you come up with?

I work for a garment company. We get empty cardboard rolls piling up at
the end of every day from fabric and plotter paper. I use the rolls to
store came, zinc, and patterns. My studio is in the basment so I have
the rolls in between the floor joists in the ceiling.

Hilary
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 18:02:33 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: triplicate postings
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:02:08 -0800
Message-ID: <199802040154.RAA08915@intergate.lasercom.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Same here.  Duplicates and triplicates for the last couple days.  Sure
takes a lot more time sifting thru the mail.

Jean

----------
> From: Michael J. Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
> To: INTERNET:glass@bungi.com
> Subject: RE: triplicate postings
> Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 12:40 PM
> 
> I am getting duplicates only from
> bungi, not from anyone else, so I
> don't think it's my server.  This time
> and in previous duplicate mailings
> it only happens with the bungi posts.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 18:05:36 1998
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From: Individule <katglass@emwv.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re:Duplicate posts
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:06:49 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.13649.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I was just reading a message, got a notice that I had mail, and it was
a duplicate of the message that I was just reading. It seems to be only
a problem with Bungi that I'm having. Odd, but a few days ago, some were
in triplicate. That seems to have stopped now.

Kathy
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 18:30:51 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Re:Duplicate posts
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:31:28 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.103128.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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We sure are spending a lot of effort in complaining/observing on
duplicate/triplicatex2x2 posts.
Is there anyone who has not yet commented...please do so all can be heard
from and we can be done with it.

enjoy? howard
weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 18:39:39 1998
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From: Bonnie <glswrks@yahoo.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chemical Reaction Flux/Plastic Containers
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:32:57 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.103257.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


True enough, but those are white plastic.  Couldn't the black
canasters have different chemicals in them from the white ones? 
Perhaps something that  could interact with the flux?  

 I too use little jars the size of baby food jars. I like them because
I can see at a glance just how much flux is in them and I'm not
'dipping in the dark' ,  so to speak.




---"Michael J. Greer"  wrote:
>
> All the flux we buy comes =
> 
> in plastic containers anyway so
> I can't imagine film canisters
> would be a problem.

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 18:41:48 1998
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From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:47:56 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.94756.0>
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Precedence: bulk

lot of lines of text for a pronunciation!

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 18:44:35 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: pronounce
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:51:49 +0000
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> Tell me you're kidding, Albert.  Now I feel sooooo foolish

Well, if in Duesseldorf they themselves said it "Yok o heeny" (that 
was it, wasn't it?), I'm ready to change my tune. <s>

I was just told, though, that in pro studios they just refer to it as 
"Yock!"



Albert

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 19:12:21 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Duplicate posts
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:07:51 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.3751.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I've gotten lots of duplicates and triplicates too.   It's been happening for
about the last 3 days.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 19:13:47 1998
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X-Path: webtv.net!NEOGLASSIC
From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Defined Chess Pieces
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:13:05 -0800
Message-ID: <199802040313.TAA15015@mailtod-121.bryant.webtv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

The term Staunton refes to the standard style of chess pieces. You know,
the ones you've seen Fisher and Spasky playing with. This style is also
the most common if you go to a game store and purchase a chess set.
A couple of years ago I came across an all glass chess set. The board
was a 16" x16"  3/16" thick glass with a 1/2" bevel. The squares had
been sandblasted. The "white" pieces were clear cast glass and the
"black" were frosted. Pretty nice really. The cost was only $30.
And...to no surprise, it was made in Tiawan.

Andrew Tillinghast
Neoglassic Studio
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 19:14:28 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:08:17 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.3817.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-03 17:57:22 EST, you write:

<< Yock-a-gay-knee  >>

Well, when I called to place an order there a few months ago, I asked them how
it was pronounced.  Zane's and Albert's versions were how they told me to say
it.  Now, does anyone know if the word means anything?  Just curious.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 19:32:10 1998
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X-Path: toltbbs.com!jhopkins
From: Jeremy Hopkins <jhopkins@toltbbs.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: hi everybody
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:42:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.17420.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

every time i try to clean my iron with flux or store scrap glass, two or
three cats run through my room...  ;-)
-- 
Jeremy W. Hopkins
      KC8GWH
http://www.toltbbs.com/~jhop/
 442.850 + mhz in nw ohio
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 19:35:10 1998
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Arts/Crafts Sales Agent is looking for new products to handl
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 04:30:44 +0000
Message-ID: <199802040334.DAA17370@pluto.nildram.co.uk>
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Hey PJ,
What is a "Beanie Baby"???
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UKs!


They even sell beanie babies!

Just a Monday morning thought.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 19:35:31 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Malcolm Miller - US visit
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Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 04:30:44 +0000
Message-ID: <199802040334.DAA17394@pluto.nildram.co.uk>
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 Dear Folks,

I am crawling out of my "Godson Entertainment Mode" to ask, plead a 
little favour. Anyone, but ANYONE, who attends any of Malcom Miller's 
lectures in USA, would it be within the realms of possibility for any 
of you to make a copy of your recording for little ME???
As PJ - quite rightly pointed out -  he is an absolute MUST!!!
He held us totally spell-bound and I wished I had begged, borrowed, 
stolen recording equipment for his lecture at Chartres. WHAT a 
charismatic man!
 I am - of course - willing to pay for costs .
If you remember, I told you absolutely MONTHS ago that  he was 
organizing this USA visit. Am SO glad that it is  now  being 
realized. If you love stained glass - DON'T MISS IT!!!
The very first (of oh so many)  Chartres pictures from last Easter 
are now on my WEB-page. Text is still missing..... I'll get there one 
of these days...
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Steph wrote,

>
>"I thought you or any of you subscribers might be interested to know that
>Malcolm Miller a world-renowned lecturer on Chartres Cathedral is coming to
>Salem, Ma. on Feb. 19 at 7:30pm. to speak at Immaculate Conception Church
>on the subject of the stained glass, sculptures and architecture of
>Chartres.  For more info you can contact Pam Greaves at (978)745-3050
>(parish secretary).  "
PJ wrote:
>This is a must if you are in the area!!!  There is no one like Mr. Miller and
you probably won't get a chance to see him in person again in the US.
As for his information on Chartres Cathedral?
You will think you died and went to Heaven.  There is nothing to compare.
I have listened personally to Mr. Miller at least a dozen times and
every time I learn something new about the Cathedral. And am mesmerized by
it all.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 19:35:34 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chess Boards
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 04:30:44 +0000
Message-ID: <199802040334.DAA17388@pluto.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bunginians,
This thread has caught my interest too.
I have never seen "Over Here" how to make chess pieces. Have long 
been planning to do a chess board (for myself). To make the chess 
pieces as well (perhaps in other materials...?) sounds absolutely 
delicious! Staunton Pattern. Staunton WHO?? 
 Would be very grateful 
for help with book  title, author, ISBN No and maybe I might be able 
to order it through my local book-shop. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

<< If you are purchasing the chess pieces seperately, choose "Staunton"
 pattern. This style is recognized throughtout the world.
  >>

Where can this be purchased? Thanks
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----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 20:02:33 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Duplicate posts
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:10:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.13108.0>
References: <<199802032018.MAA31543@norm.island.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Carol Swann wrote:
> 
> >i've been getting them too. and it's kind of confusing, becuase there
> >would be a a bunch of messages, then the exact same bunch mixed into new
> >stuff. i've almost replied a few times to the repeats.
> >
> >---Mike Savad
> 
> Eeek, Mike...that would mean some of us would be getting quadruplicates...
> Actually I don't think I'm getting duplicates, just poorly edited replies.
> 
> Carol Swann
> Synergy Glass & Creative
> 
> ----
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i've seen it come in a few times, but always somewhere different. kind
of a dejavu experience, especially when i go to answer it for a second
time. i release it only when i rehearse it in my head, and thinking "hmm
i thought i just wrote that..." and what makes it worse the repeats may
come days later...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 20:02:37 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: more creative storage
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:24:48 -0800
Message-ID: <199802032324.PAA06251@norm.island.net>
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I have my grinder inside a glass aquarium flipped on its side so the open
side is towards me.  That catches any and all grinder guck that's flung
around, as well as giving me a place to sit a small lamp for better
visibility at night.  They're cheap at a yard sale, and one that doesn't
hold water works okay for this.

Cheers

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 20:02:41 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:30:04 -0500
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Hi Sam & Elizabeth-

I think someone was pulling
your leg about the pronunciation.
Most folks over here pronounce
it "yock-uh-gay-nee"  and I would
presume the wholesalers would
know since they call the factory
on a regular basis.  But, then
again, with a name like that.....
Now, how about Ouroboros? ;-)

Best regard,

Dani Greer =

Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 20:02:49 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Skyhooks
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:29:56 -0500
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Hi Carol-

Were you looking for left-handed
skyhooks, or right? ;)

Seriously, though, a solution for
your problem might require a tinker.
Michael's solution:

Get a length of aluminum u-channel
two inches longer than the length of
the window span. (We buy this from
a commercial glazier at about .80/ft.)
Have the handyman cut away one =

inch on the two upright sides on each
end.  Then heat-bend the remaining
middle section up to enclose the
ends of the u-channel.  Drill a hole
in each end, then screw into the window
jambs with the channel open to the top.
Then just plop the stained glass in and
finish out the half-round section as you
ordinarily would (see previous thread;-)

Or simpler, but not as attractive:

Solder two L-brackets to the bottom zinc
channel with the ell pointed down-ward.
Then attach to the window jamb with screws
on each side. Proceed as above.

Touch up both with paint to match.

Who was it said something about a picture
being worth 1,000 words.... whew!

Good luck!

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 20:12:16 1998
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X-Path: eagle.ca!glass
From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:13:43 -0500
Message-ID: <v01530500b0fd882937e3@[206.186.242.82]>
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Hi Everyone,

I have heard stained glass people advising one another to get a blood test
if they are concerned about lead. My question is, have any of you ever had
a blood test come back positive for high lead?

I have been doing stained glass for over 10 years and although I now take
precautions against lead exposure in my workshop, I went many years without
paying any attention at all to this risk. I have never tested positive, and
I have never met anyone who has.

All of which makes me wonder whether a) blood tests are not sensitive enough
 or b) stained glass doesn't pose much risk of lead poisoning. I am not
trying to say that lead isn't harmful, or that we shouldn't take
precautions, just that I've never met anyone who ever got lead poisoning
from stained glass work.

This may not be very politically correct, but how much lead can we possibly
take in while working with glass? Despite what some people say, lead isn't
absorbed through the skin, that is what the skin is for - to keep out
foreign matter, and it works pretty well. So we either inhale it or ingest
it, and how much really gets in your mouth? We seem to spend a lot of time
worrying about lead, and hearing less about more immediate health risks
like silica dust or even fire prevention.

What do you guys say? Am I alone in this viewpoint?

Sarah


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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 20:39:59 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 98 23:40:51 -0500
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Sarah says:
>I have heard stained glass people advising one another to get a blood test
>if they are concerned about lead. My question is, have any of you ever had
>a blood test come back positive for high lead?

Suzanne replies:
No, my blood tests always come back low lead. However I intend to keep on 
having it checked at least once a year. I think it's cumulative.

I do know one person who did SG in this town for many years... she had to 
stop because of high lead levels. She told me she wasn't very careful 
back in the "old days." I've also heard of another here. That's in an 
average-sized suburban county seat.

Don't know about silica dust. I thought the grinder water took care of 
that. Would be interested in hearing from those who know more than I do.

Suzanne

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 20:42:48 1998
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X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover
From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:35:44 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.143544.0>
References: <<v01530500b0fd882937e3@[206.186.242.82]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool
Precedence: bulk

> worrying about lead, and hearing less about more immediate health risks
> like silica dust or even fire prevention.
> 
> What do you guys say? Am I alone in this viewpoint?
> 
> Sarah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Sarah,
	The man who taught me stained glass said the only way a person
can get lead posining from stained glass is if he had a habit of licking
the windows.  I have never heard of anyone getting it, and make it a
personal habit to thoroughly scrub my hands after working with it.
Because usually I head right from the glassroom to the kitchen.  After
we began doing glass in our home, we brought our kids in for testing,
and there were no problems there either.  I think its just uninformed
people making the usual assumptions.....



Blessings;

Laurean



Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one

another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 22:32:18 1998
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 98 23:40:51 -0500
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Sarah says:
>I have heard stained glass people advising one another to get a blood test
>if they are concerned about lead. My question is, have any of you ever had
>a blood test come back positive for high lead?

Suzanne replies:
No, my blood tests always come back low lead. However I intend to keep on 
having it checked at least once a year. I think it's cumulative.

I do know one person who did SG in this town for many years... she had to 
stop because of high lead levels. She told me she wasn't very careful 
back in the "old days." I've also heard of another here. That's in an 
average-sized suburban county seat.

Don't know about silica dust. I thought the grinder water took care of 
that. Would be interested in hearing from those who know more than I do.

Suzanne

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 22:32:35 1998
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X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover
From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:35:44 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.143544.0>
References: <<v01530500b0fd882937e3@[206.186.242.82]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool
Precedence: bulk

> worrying about lead, and hearing less about more immediate health risks
> like silica dust or even fire prevention.
> 
> What do you guys say? Am I alone in this viewpoint?
> 
> Sarah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Sarah,
	The man who taught me stained glass said the only way a person
can get lead posining from stained glass is if he had a habit of licking
the windows.  I have never heard of anyone getting it, and make it a
personal habit to thoroughly scrub my hands after working with it.
Because usually I head right from the glassroom to the kitchen.  After
we began doing glass in our home, we brought our kids in for testing,
and there were no problems there either.  I think its just uninformed
people making the usual assumptions.....



Blessings;

Laurean



Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one

another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 23:18:12 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Storing Came
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 23:16:36 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.151636.0>
References: <<1998Feb3.151326.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

> We ORFS got to save somewhere.
> 
OK I'll bite.  What is ORFS?
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 23:21:41 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Barn window
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 23:20:53 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.152053.0>
References: <<1998Feb3.84318.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

> I like this idea too!!!! Thanks!  by blooming tree branch do you
> mean like apple or cherry blossoms?
> 
Doesn't matter, just remember to be authenic, humming birds are
attracted by red or deep pink flowers.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  3 23:44:24 1998
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From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 02:43:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.184357.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.145117.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island NC USA
Precedence: bulk

I have to disagree on the principle that you haven't got the right to
ask or even to suggest to folks that they change their ISP to accomodate
your editing habits.  This is unsatisfatory and unkind
behaviour-definitely NOT in the bungi spirit of cooperation!  PLEASE
edit, and don't be the reason that someone has to spend great sums of
money to stay online and retrieve unecessary text in their mail, as in
the UK where the phone line is charged by the per/min connection
time...NOR the reason that someone has to quit subscribing to bungi
because they feel offended by you having told them that they either have
to change their ISP to accomodate your stubborness and lazy editing or
SUFFER silently enduring.  NO, I SAY!  YOU should bend a little in
consideration of the others, IMNSHO.

Just my .50 cents worth.. (Inflation you know! ;-D  )

V T Phelps

M. Savad wrote:

> though other's will disagree, you should get a better ISP that does'nt
> charge for that. and besides, what listed above is very confusing. i've
> seen people clip it so much that i have no idea what they're responding
> to. and what was there to edit on the line above, what 4 lines...?
> ---Mike Savad
> -----
> BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> >
> > How about editing the text of the messages you respond to. You are
> > costing some of a considerable amount of money in phone charges for
> > what is often small gain.
> > Bob
> > Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow
> > ____
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From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 02:52:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.185257.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.154751.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island NC USA
Precedence: bulk

Vinyl guttering uses plastic gutter-brackets, and metal guttering (NOT
older) as in the aluminum or (very expensive) copper guttering uses
gutter spikes which are very commonly available from any hardware store
or home remodeling outlet which stocks gutter. There is also a slim
metal sleeve that is made to slide onto the spike between the inside
edges of the guttering to keep it from getting bent in on itself.

V T Phelps

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> my guess would be that it's attached with gutter spikes. the older
> gutters used these giant spikes. the newer ons hang on with straps...
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> Shirley Balloch wrote:
> >
> > My retailer uses gutters to display came in.  Never paid any attention
> > to how he attached it to the wall though.
> > Dave you want to take it from here?
> > ----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 00:41:23 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Re:Duplicate posts
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:36:18 +0000
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> Is there anyone who has not yet commented...please do so all can be heard
> from and we can be done with it.

Okay. I've been getting triplicate posts about triplicate posts. <g>

Albert

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Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
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> 	The man who taught me stained glass said the only way a person
> can get lead posining from stained glass is if he had a habit of licking
> the windows. 

Not quite, I'm afraid.  Lead is a much more insidious substance than 
that. Take a look (for starters) at 
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/cgg5e.htm ...

                      "For example, a label for lead solder 
                      purchased in a hardware store indicates that it
                      is "fatal if swallowed" and "causes severe
                      burns," but gives no indication of the fact that
                      lead causes not only acute lead poisoning but
                      also has severe effects on a number of body
                      systems, including damage to blood-forming,
                      nervous, and reproductive systems (see OHSA's
                      lead standard, 29 CFR 1910.1025)."

Washing your hands is good, it's a start, but we'll see if Monona 
Rossol has an update on the subject for us.

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
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Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 00:41:58 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: pronounce
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> Now, how about Ouroboros? ;-)

Uroboros: "You row bore us" ... the mythical snake that devoured 
itself, because Uroboros' glass was initially (and perhaps still is) 
made at least partially with recycled glass. <s>

Accent on "bore," methinks.

Albert

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 00:45:09 1998
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Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:46:45 +0000
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At 18:30 03/02/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Sam & Elizabeth-
>
>I think someone was pulling
>your leg about the pronunciation.
Yes - it rather looks like it, doesn't it.
Not absolutely sure, but we may have been speaking to a German rep on the
stand rather than to someone with real native american blood and vowels :-0
It's not often we Brits will accept the "ex colonial" pronouncement but we
are happy to stand corrected here.
Elizabeth & Sam
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 00:55:36 1998
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From: Phil <mdcglas@hawk.rmplc.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Chemical Reaction Flux/Plastic Containers
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 98 08:54:27 +0000
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Jean wrote

>Several of you have mentioned using the empty film canisters for flux (I
>use little jars the size of baby food jars).  I would question if there
>might not be a problem with chemical reaction between the flux and the
>plastic containers?  Anyone have any ideas on this?

I don't think so all of the flux I've ever bought comes in plastic 
containers!

Phil

Phil Speedwell
Computer Technician
Microcomputer Development Centre
Education Support Service
Glasgow City Council

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 00:56:34 1998
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X-Path: ids.on.ca!aloha
From: aloha@ids.on.ca
To: webuser@yerbizsite.com
Subject: Your web site...
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 03:01:49 1998
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Would you be so kind and add my name to your list?  Thank you!
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 04:50:11 1998
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Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:41:49 EST
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I've been trying to post a message, but I keep getting the message returned.
Am I using the wrong address?  I'm an AOL user.  Using:
http://www.glass@bungi.com  or I've tried glass@bungi.com

Any advice?
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 04:50:11 1998
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From: tresmith@city-net.com (Theresa Smith)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:42:02 -0500 (EST)
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>In a message dated 98-02-03 17:57:22 EST, you write:
>
><< Yock-a-gay-knee  >>
>
>Well, when I called to place an order there a few months ago, I asked them how
>it was pronounced.  Zane's and Albert's versions were how they told me to say
>it.  Now, does anyone know if the word means anything?  Just curious.
>----
I know its an native Indian word but I couldn't tell you which language or
the meaning.  But it does refer to a river - the Youghiogheny.  Quite a spot
for the camping and whitewater - in Ohiopyle State Park.  You can check out
http://www.ohiopylepa.com/ if you want.  That's also the way I always
learned to pronoune it - yock-a-gay-knee, the yock.

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 05:36:50 1998
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Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:31:40 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-04 03:44:59 EST, you write:

<< 
 > Is there anyone who has not yet commented...please do so all can be heard
 > from and we can be done with it.
 
 Okay. I've been getting triplicate posts about triplicate posts. <g>
 
 Albert
  >>
You asked for it
Not only have I been getting posts in TRIPLICATE but I delete them all and
they're back the next morning!!!
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 06:11:57 1998
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Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:10:40 -0800
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Hi fellow stained glass enthusiasts, I am fairly new to this craft but I am
used to working in small spaces as I am involved with many hobbies. I take
PVC pipe and cut it in half-drill holes to hang it with and you have an
inexpensive way to store came, channel, or the likes and by cutting it you
double the storage space. I also took 2x6 baords and drilled holes slightly
smaller than the 1/2 inch PVC pipe then pounded the pipe into the holes to
make a great storage rack for storing sheets of glass in the upright
position. You can cut the plastic pipe to any length you want to accomadate
the size glass you have. Happy cutting!! Susan


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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 06:52:05 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:49:28 -0500
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SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-02-03 17:57:22 EST, you write:
> 
> << Yock-a-gay-knee  >>
> 
> Well, when I called to place an order there a few months ago, I asked them how
> it was pronounced.  Zane's and Albert's versions were how they told me to say
> it.  Now, does anyone know if the word means anything?  Just curious.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i think it's named after the indian tribe.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 06:52:51 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: hi everybody
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:50:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.45050.0>
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Jeremy Hopkins wrote:
> 
> every time i try to clean my iron with flux or store scrap glass, two or
> three cats run through my room...  ;-)




maybe your cats are trying to tell you not to clean you iron with
flux...

---Mike Savad

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 06:54:48 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Arts/Crafts Sales Agent is looking for new products to handl
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:52:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.45246.0>
References: <<199802040334.DAA17370@pluto.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:
> 
> Hey PJ,
> What is a "Beanie Baby"???
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UKs!
> 
> They even sell beanie babies!
> 
> Just a Monday morning thought.
> 
> ----

a beanie baby is a little stuffed toy filled with beans, like a
hackysack ball with legs. for some strange reason they became really
popular here in the US.

---Mike Savad


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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 06:56:42 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:54:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.45432.0>
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Michael J. Greer wrote:
> 
> Hi Sam & Elizabeth-
> 
> I think someone was pulling
> your leg about the pronunciation.
> Most folks over here pronounce
> it "yock-uh-gay-nee"  and I would
> presume the wholesalers would
> know since they call the factory
> on a regular basis.  But, then
> again, with a name like that.....
> Now, how about Ouroboros? ;-)
> 
> Best regard,
> 
> Dani Greer =

Uroboros = your-o-bore-us

---Mike Savad



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and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 06:58:34 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:56:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.45630.0>
References: <<v01530500b0fd882937e3@[206.186.242.82]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Sarah wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I have heard stained glass people advising one another to get a blood test
> if they are concerned about lead. My question is, have any of you ever had
> a blood test come back positive for high lead?
> 
> I have been doing stained glass for over 10 years and although I now take
> precautions against lead exposure in my workshop, I went many years without
> paying any attention at all to this risk. I have never tested positive, and
> I have never met anyone who has.
> 
> All of which makes me wonder whether a) blood tests are not sensitive enough
>  or b) stained glass doesn't pose much risk of lead poisoning. I am not
> trying to say that lead isn't harmful, or that we shouldn't take
> precautions, just that I've never met anyone who ever got lead poisoning
> from stained glass work.
> 
> This may not be very politically correct, but how much lead can we possibly
> take in while working with glass? Despite what some people say, lead isn't
> absorbed through the skin, that is what the skin is for - to keep out
> foreign matter, and it works pretty well. So we either inhale it or ingest
> it, and how much really gets in your mouth? We seem to spend a lot of time
> worrying about lead, and hearing less about more immediate health risks
> like silica dust or even fire prevention.
> 
> What do you guys say? Am I alone in this viewpoint?
> 
> Sarah
> 

i've had mine checked every so often, it might depend wether you do lead
or foil work. being that your more likely have a little more lead in
your system using lead came. 

mine has always been supprisingly low.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 07:04:32 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:02:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.5227.0>
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suzanne albright wrote:

> 
> Don't know about silica dust. I thought the grinder water took care of
> that. Would be interested in hearing from those who know more than I do.
> 
> Suzanne


the grinder should'nt be spraying any dust, that's what the water is
for. i know of some people who grind dry, why? i dunno, i guess they're
idiots. always grind with the water in it, you should never see any
dust. 

when you clean your grinder wet it down first then wipe it up. you also
might want to wear gloves, because the glass, even in that tiny form,
can still be irritating.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 07:09:07 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:06:19 -0500
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NCScouter wrote:
> 
> I have to disagree on the principle that you haven't got the right to
> ask or even to suggest to folks that they change their ISP to accomodate
> your editing habits.  This is unsatisfatory and unkind
> behaviour-definitely NOT in the bungi spirit of cooperation!  PLEASE
> edit, and don't be the reason that someone has to spend great sums of
> money to stay online and retrieve unecessary text in their mail, as in
> the UK where the phone line is charged by the per/min connection
> time...NOR the reason that someone has to quit subscribing to bungi
> because they feel offended by you having told them that they either have
> to change their ISP to accomodate your stubborness and lazy editing or
> SUFFER silently enduring.  NO, I SAY!  YOU should bend a little in
> consideration of the others, IMNSHO.
> 
> Just my .50 cents worth.. (Inflation you know! ;-D  )
> 
> V T Phelps
> 

my editing is fine, i have no idea what people want, latley i've seen
things so badly hacked that i have no idea what it was refering to. and
if you think that's not a nice thing to do, fine, i don't always have to
be a nice guy. after all for all you know, for fun i might push old
ladies down the stairs.... no i'm kidding.... they're not all that old.


---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 07:11:05 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: hi everybody
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:08:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.5846.0>
References: <<1998Feb4.124149.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Classydad@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I've been trying to post a message, but I keep getting the message returned.
> Am I using the wrong address?  I'm an AOL user.  Using:
> http://www.glass@bungi.com  or I've tried glass@bungi.com
> 
> Any advice?
> ----

use the glass@bungi.com as the address, and as long as your subscribed
you can send and recieve mail.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 07:22:56 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Malcolm Miller video
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:30:04 +0000
Message-ID: <m0y06eQ-0000IuC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Since some of you were interesting in someone taping Miller's 
presentation in Massachusetts on the 19th ... and because I was 
unfamiliar with him ... I asked around.

Turns out he's quite well known -- except by me, I guess. <s>  The 
people I spoke with said he puts on a terrific show, is quite aware 
of the value of the show he puts on, and that getting permission to 
videotape is extremely unlikely, alas.

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
Membership    http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm
Members' work http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm
Sources Guide http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm
Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 07:24:56 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Glass Enthusiasts <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Sarah:lead 
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:12:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.71212.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Nadine's Folly
Precedence: bulk

Hi Sarah. . .
I've been doing glass for 18 years and  can ditto your experience.  I,
too, have had blood tests and always came out negative--even in times
when I was literally living in the studio! Now that I am aware, I try to
be more careful, but I, too, wonder just how much is too much.  Have a
good one.    Nadine

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 07:37:42 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas
From: "James C. Kelly" <gcanvas@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Storing Came
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:36:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.53618.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>>> We ORFS got to save somewhere. >  OK I'll bite.  What is
>>ORFS?

Hi Shirley,

ORFS are Old Retired FellowsS
That's an AARP without a membership fee.
Jim

The Glass Canvas
Virginia Beach VA/Lake Wallenpaupak PA
gcanvas@CompuServe.com
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 07:55:27 1998
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X-Path: ccti.net!don
From: "Don McDonald" <don@ccti.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: hi everybody
Summary: Authenticated sender is <don@eve.corp.ccti.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:59:00 +0000
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> I've been trying to post a message, but I keep getting the message returned.
> Am I using the wrong address?  I'm an AOL user.  Using:
> http://www.glass@bungi.com  or I've tried glass@bungi.com
> 
> Any advice?
> ----
Do whatever you did to get this message posted, probably 
glass@bungi.com.  The first example would only pull up a web page if 
one existed with that name.  

Don M. McDonald
Director, Web Services
Chesapeake Communications Corporation
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 08:05:44 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:05:58 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980204110558.006b5028@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
References: <<1998Feb3.184357.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike..... Your sense of humor is just fine too..... 


>my editing is fine, i have no idea what people want, latley i've seen

>things so badly hacked that i have no idea what it was refering to. and

>if you think that's not a nice thing to do, fine, i don't always have to

>be a nice guy. after all for all you know, for fun i might push old

>ladies down the stairs.... no i'm kidding.... they're not all that old.

>

>

>---Mike Savad

>

>

>-- 

>Mike's Stained Glass

>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

>2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added

>and My Updated Shop Photo's

>----

>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com

>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com

>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

>

<center><color><param>0000,0000,8080</param>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

</color><bold><color><param>8080,0000,0000</param>Barbara J. Snell

Manager, Balch Dining

Cornell University

</color></bold></center><color><param>0000,0000,8080</param>			          
    </color>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 08:23:03 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!RemickT
From: RemickT@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:21:03 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.16213.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-03 10:14:13 EST, you write:

<<  Can this thread evolve into a discussion on SG chess pieces? >>

If you don't mind mixing media -- Origami, Plain and Simple by Robert
Neale/Thomas Hull has directions on how to fold chess piece from paper
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 08:23:21 1998
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X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu
To:           glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:      Re: Mike's Projects
Date:         Wed, 04 Feb 98 11:15:32 EST
Message-ID:   <980204.112025.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<1998Feb4.5619.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I think Mike S, only pushes old ALIEN ladies down stairs.  They
bounce better.

Unlike glass (sigh)  Halfway through paperwork for taxes. (bigger sigh).
This chessboard stuff has me thinking...which usually means my husband
is in trouble because I'll want him to do something...You know those
symbols used in the newspaper in chess columns?  they could be etchedd
or engraved on glass rounds or big glass blobs.

Dorothy K

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 08:24:31 1998
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X-Path: gnt.net!lynb
From: Lyn Butler <lynb@gnt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Boston, MA
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:23:12 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.102312.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

Just got back from a 10-day  trip and found I had a MAJOR number of
messages from Bungi! After reading some, realized some were duplicate
and triplicate messages. But still, LOTS of messages, it was fun
skimming them all!

Got a question for those who might be able to help. My daughter is
working in Boston, Mass. and is interested in knowing of any good glass
shops there or near there. She only just got there so she hasn't had a
chance to look but you can tell where her priorities are. That's my
girl! When she goes home on weekends she does her glass work.

Thanks for any help,
Lyn

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 08:47:06 1998
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X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover
From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: editing, etc...
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:00:26 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.2026.0>
References: <<1998Feb4.5619.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool
Precedence: bulk

> > Just my .50 cents worth.. (Inflation you know! ;-D  )
> > V T Phelps

> be a nice guy. after all for all you know, for fun i might push old
> ladies down the stairs.... no i'm kidding.... they're not all that old.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
	I realize I am new to this list, and my 2 cents worth, probably
isn't even worth that!  I am grateful to everyone for the generous way
they offer support.  However I did not join to see bashing going on.  So
Mike doesn't edit in the same manner as everyone else.  He still is a
generous contributor to this list!  I also realize there is a viable
concern over ISP billing in England (I presume).  Does Mikes input in
relation to  everyone elses cause the bill to go sky high?  I realize I
may be taking on alot of heat here...And that's o.k.  Why don't we
concentrate on why we are here...To learn from and help each other.
 
Blessings;

Laurean



Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one

another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>


----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 08:52:48 1998
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: hi everybody
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:51:14 PST
Message-ID: <m0y082c-0000EUC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "Re: hi everybody" on Feb  4,  7:41, Classydad@aol.com writes:]
> I've been trying to post a message, but I keep getting the message returned.
> Am I using the wrong address?  I'm an AOL user.  Using:
> http://www.glass@bungi.com  or I've tried glass@bungi.com
> 
> Any advice?

It's:

http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 09:12:14 1998
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X-Path: athgway.ath.umich.edu!sue_vershum_at_umad-maize
From: sue_vershum_at_umad-maize@athgway.ath.umich.edu
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: editing, etc... 
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 98 12:06:54 -0500
Message-ID: <9802048866.AA886612244@athgway.ath.umich.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


THANK YOU!
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: editing, etc... 
From:    <glass@bungi.com > at internet-mail
Date:    2/4/98  10:00 AM

> > Just my .50 cents worth.. (Inflation you know! ;-D  )
> > V T Phelps

> be a nice guy. after all for all you know, for fun i might push old
> ladies down the stairs.... no i'm kidding.... they're not all that old.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        I realize I am new to this list, and my 2 cents worth, probably
isn't even worth that!  I am grateful to everyone for the generous way
they offer support.  However I did not join to see bashing going on.  So
Mike doesn't edit in the same manner as everyone else.  He still is a
generous contributor to this list!  I also realize there is a viable
concern over ISP billing in England (I presume).  Does Mikes input in
relation to  everyone elses cause the bill to go sky high?  I realize I
may be taking on alot of heat here...And that's o.k.  Why don't we
concentrate on why we are here...To learn from and help each other.
 
Blessings;

Laurean



Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one

another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>


----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 09:48:56 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: editing, etc... 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:48:29 -0800
Message-ID: <199802041740.JAA13455@intergate.lasercom.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Hurrah, Laurean.  My sentiments exactly.  You said it better than I ever
could have!

Jean

____________________________________________________________________________
___
> Subject: editing, etc... 
> From:    <glass@bungi.com > at internet-mail
> Date:    2/4/98  10:00 AM

>         I realize I am new to this list, and my 2 cents worth, probably
> isn't even worth that!  I am grateful to everyone for the generous way
> they offer support.  However I did not join to see bashing going on.  So
> Mike doesn't edit in the same manner as everyone else.  He still is a
> generous contributor to this list!  I also realize there is a viable
> concern over ISP billing in England (I presume).  Does Mikes input in
> relation to  everyone elses cause the bill to go sky high?  I realize I
> may be taking on alot of heat here...And that's o.k.  Why don't we
> concentrate on why we are here...To learn from and help each other.
>  
> Blessings;
> 
> Laurean
> 
> 
> 
> Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one
another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>
> 
> 
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 10:23:13 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Boston, MA
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:29:36 +0000
Message-ID: <m0y09SB-0000BDC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 
> Got a question for those who might be able to help. My daughter is
> working in Boston, Mass. and is interested in knowing of any good glass
> shops there or near there. 

There are 38 on our list, for 28 of which we have phone numbers. Not 
sure whether any of them sell at retail (that's what you meant, 
right?)  Might all be studios ... I didn't check the names; just did 
a count and amount.

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
Membership    http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm
Members' work http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm
Sources Guide http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm
Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 10:28:14 1998
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From: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Boston,MA
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:26:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.82649.0>
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Lyn Butler said:
"After reading some...(snip)
But still, LOTS of messages, it was fun
skimming them all!  Got a question for those who might be able to help. My
daughter is
working in Boston, Mass. and is interested in knowing of any good glass
shops there or near there?"...

You missed reading when you were skimming; Albert's post of Feb1,1998 @
5:02pm
www.stainglassbiz.com this site has many answers to basic questions plus
additional information on stained glass.  Including many of  the Stained
Glass stores in the different states. Glenna is also nice enough to keep all
the archives plus many topics of  REQUIRED READING at www.bungi.com

Dawn (our resident archivest) has many specific topics put together from the
archives...
Lamps
Pricing
Design
ETC

I am glad, that, many new people are joining Bungi, but YOU  have a
responsibility too.
Please read archives  before asking questions that have been answered
many,many times before.

Jazzykid@tir.com






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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 10:36:14 1998
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From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: simple storage
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:35:32 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.23532.0>
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Precedence: bulk

I usually create small pieces of "scrap", I use pint, quart, 1/2 gal. and
gal. waxed milk cartons (chocolate, no-fat, low fat, whole milk, etc. ) are
all ok to use. Suggest rinsing them first, however. I change containers for
different colors and textures, and this sorts my scrap as I go.

Egg cartons are also good for keeping groups of pieces together. Also if one
numbers the sections you can put background pieces in as well. I usually
number  1 to 9..... 10 to 19 and so forth.

enjoy, H

As a suggestion if you want to comment, I do not need to see this post
repeated to me!


weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 11:06:50 1998
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Subject:      Re: Boston, MA
Date:         Wed, 04 Feb 98 14:03:16 EST
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Whittemore- Durgin, just south of Boston.  I occasionally make the two hour
drive to go there.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 11:13:59 1998
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From: Karen Schroeder <karens@apple.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: more creative storage
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 98 11:01:31 -0800
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On 2/3/98 3:24 PM Carol Swann said:

>I have my grinder inside a glass aquarium flipped on its side so the open
>side is towards me.

Delurking for a moment. This suggestion alone is worth the price of 
admission. Thank you Carol. I'll be hitting the yard sales this weekend.

As long as I am out of hiding I'll introduce myself. My name is Karen 
Schroeder, I live and have my in-house glass studio in Benicia California 
(surrounded on all sides by flooded areas but I'm dry so far). I have 
been "doing glass" for almost 3 years. Mostly foil - sun catchers, lamps 
(panel and "tiffany") and small to medium free-hanging panels (the 
largest so far is 2' x 3'). I'm dying to do a couple of windows for my 
mother if I can talk her into it.

I just started a business last October - Hummingbird Designs. Went 
through the whole business license, seller's permit, DBA dance. But it 
was worth it. I have accounts at two semi-local wholesalers (Franciscan 
Glass in Mountain View and Bendheim West in Oakland) where I purchase all 
of my glass and one mail-order wholesaler (Art Glass House in Florida) 
where I purchase just about everything except glass.

I have my work in a local art & craft gallery, renting a booth for $50 
per month. Sales have been slow. I think that glass is a bit "high end" 
for this gallery. Most of the work is more crafty - painted wood and 
dried flower type stuff (not that there is anything wrong with that - to 
quote Seinfeld).

Thanks for all of the great ideas and suggestions. Maybe someday I'll 
have an idea to contribute. Until then, back to lurker mode.

Karen

The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better," so I bought a Macintosh.

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 11:20:56 1998
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Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:19:08 -0500
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Elizabeth-

Now that we've figured out how it's
really pronounced, let's comment
on how it SHOULD be pronounced.
I'm personally in favor of:

"Yo - heeny"

On second thought, maybe this is
not such a good thread - we'll probably
drive Howard crazy! ;-)

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 11:21:13 1998
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Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:19:22 -0500
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Dear Howard-

When you have four hundred =

folks in on the same conversation,
you're bound to get some repeats.
(and I don't mean multiple postings!)
It might SEEM to get boring, but
if you go beyond the words to the
people who are posting, you =

actually get to know them as
real spirits... not just words on the
Internet.  Try it, you'll like it!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 11:21:31 1998
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Subject: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:19:24 -0500
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Hi Sarah-

We don't know of anyone who has
died of lead poisoning from working
in the stained glass industry.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 11:38:45 1998
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Subject: Re: Boston, MA
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:37:48 +0000
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Forgive me for asking a redundant question!

Lyn
 
   

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 11:52:00 1998
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Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:50:03 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-04 13:29:16 EST, you write:

<< Please read archives  before asking questions that have been answered
 many,many times before.
 
 Jazzykid@tir.com
  >>


First, you must edit any previous responses; now we MUST read the months and
years worth of archives BEFORE posing a question to this group. 

What is the purpose of this group - to share information or force our
narrowmindedness on everyone else?  Some ground rules need to apply.

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 12:10:11 1998
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Arts/Crafts Sales Agent is looking for new products to handl
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:08:55 -0500 (EST)
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Hi Elisabeth......

Sorry I thought that Beanie Babies were multi-cultural. Trancontientinal.
Toutes les
Pays.

OK....her goes/ Beanie Babys are little stuffed animals about 7 or 8 inches 
filled with something reminding you of a bean bag.
Happen to be alot of "collectors", and I use the term losely, here in the
states.
The animals range from dogs to zebras.  And even a Princess Di bear (which I
happen to think is a sic form of marketing).
Now what till you hear this one....prices range from $6.00 to hundreds of
dollars for
retired (ones they don't sell anymore to create a desire and higher price.)
ones.

Hmmm.....maybe the idea is here just needs to be fine tuned.  Lets see
Princess Di
stained glass roses.  We'll start them at about 15.00 and leap the price up to
the thousands by the end of the week.  ( Only joshing.... Just a sic comment
on society).

my best,
pj

>Hey PJ,
>What is a "Beanie Baby"???
>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UKs!
>
>
>They even sell beanie babies!
>
>Just a Monday morning thought.
>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
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>
>

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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Malcolm Miller video
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:14:25 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802042014.PAA06150@water.waterw.com>
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Albert wrote,


>Since some of you were interesting in someone taping Miller's 
>presentation in Massachusetts on the 19th ... and because I was 
>unfamiliar with him ... I asked around.
>
>Turns out he's quite well known -- except by me, I guess. <s>  The 
>people I spoke with said he puts on a terrific show, is quite aware 
>of the value of the show he puts on, and that getting permission to 
>videotape is extremely unlikely, alas.

I don't know about videoing him at the cathedral.  Personallly I was always
so overwhelmed with his person and knowledge that picture taking was
the last thing on my mind.  

One thing I must say also for anyone attending.  Buy his book and get him to
autograph it for you.  Or buy copies.  I give them as gifts to friends who are
glass lovers.

my best,
pj 



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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 12:17:10 1998
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:16:23 -0500 (EST)
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Dani wrote,

>
>We don't know of anyone who has
>died of lead poisoning from working
>in the stained glass industry.
>
Neither do we.  And we've been around a long time.

Most people we know that have gotten ill was from silicosis.

my best,
pj>

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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:21:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802042021.PAA06585@water.waterw.com>
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Dani wrote,


>When you have four hundred =
>
>folks in on the same conversation,
>you're bound to get some repeats.
>(and I don't mean multiple postings!)
>It might SEEM to get boring, but
>if you go beyond the words to the
>people who are posting, you =
>
>actually get to know them as
>real spirits... not just words on the
>Internet.  Try it, you'll like it!
>
>And you also get to know who has patience, who has a sense of humor,
who has cats, who has kids, who has a busniess licence, who has
high lead levels....think this is getting to Howard.......who has a wife,
who has a husband,......

my best,
pj..

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 12:25:03 1998
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Boston,MA
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:24:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802042024.PAA06798@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>I
Margaret wrote,
First, you must edit any previous responses; now we MUST read the months and
>years worth of archives BEFORE posing a question to this group. 
>
>What is the purpose of this group - to share information or force our
>narrowmindedness on everyone else?  Some ground rules need to apply.
>
As long as its not about stepping stones (only kidding!!)

I think that if a question is redundant and asked and answered to death.
Most people
will direct the person asking the question to the archives or answer off group.

I don't think we need any more grounds rules than common sense.

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 13:03:22 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:07:56 +0000
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> We don't know of anyone who has
> died of lead poisoning from working
> in the stained glass industry.

I missed the beginning of this thread, I think. You're not saying 
lead is safe, are you?

I know a few old heads in the stained glass world who are certifiable 
... is *that lead-related? <g>

Albert

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 13:03:26 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Boston,MA
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:07:56 +0000
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> First, you must edit any previous responses; now we MUST read the months and
> years worth of archives BEFORE posing a question to this group.

Personally, I don't mind answering the same question again. I might 
then point you to the archives for additional info, since you might 
be unaware of them. Sorry you were taken to task just for asking.

I've been answering the same questions since 1973, having started 
working with glass in 1968 and in those five years learned a couple 
of things I could answer.  I was so proud to have any answers at all. 
There's still a lot I don't know, though. <s>

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
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Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 13:32:31 1998
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X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass
From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:16:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802042016.PAA06246@water.waterw.com>
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Precedence: bulk

Dani wrote,

>
>We don't know of anyone who has
>died of lead poisoning from working
>in the stained glass industry.
>
Neither do we.  And we've been around a long time.

Most people we know that have gotten ill was from silicosis.

my best,
pj>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 13:32:34 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Redundant Question?
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:32:16 -0800
Message-ID: <199802042124.NAA22568@intergate.lasercom.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Lyn, 

You have no need to apologize, you could not have known your question was
redundant. Please forgive the rudeness of some of the people on this list,
fortunately they are in the minority! Hang in there and ask away, that is
what the list is for. For every one who won't (or can't) answer a question,
there are 10 more who can, and will! 

Thanks to all of the 'old timers' who patiently respond to the same
questions over and over, as well as point us in the right direction to find
more answers.

Jean

----------
> From: Lyn Butler <lynb@gnt.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Boston, MA
> Date: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 5:37 AM
> 
> Forgive me for asking a redundant question!
> 
> Lyn
>  

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 13:33:49 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: postings
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:31:37 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.53137.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

For my own organizational skills, I like to see the current message at
the top.  Then if I can't remember what the comment is referring to, I
can read on, to refresh my memory.
But you won't see me doing that.  I use netscape and I haven't figured
out how to force it to let me print before the message.
I should think that if anything is costing us more money, it would be
all the dulicate posting.  So any of you computer gurus out there in
bungiland have the answer for us.  My dulicate postings are not confined
to bungi. Is this because we are using two mail servers?  I use netscape
and my ISP's program.  Could it also be, that I don't trash my messages
until after I have deleted 100 or so? Or is it beyond our control, as
someone suggested, because some company is trying to make it seem like
they handle alot more mail than they really do? Should we contact our
own ISPs to look into this problem? Or do we just learn to live with it?
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 13:48:53 1998
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X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass
From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:21:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802042021.PAA06585@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dani wrote,


>When you have four hundred =
>
>folks in on the same conversation,
>you're bound to get some repeats.
>(and I don't mean multiple postings!)
>It might SEEM to get boring, but
>if you go beyond the words to the
>people who are posting, you =
>
>actually get to know them as
>real spirits... not just words on the
>Internet.  Try it, you'll like it!
>
>And you also get to know who has patience, who has a sense of humor,
who has cats, who has kids, who has a busniess licence, who has
high lead levels....think this is getting to Howard.......who has a wife,
who has a husband,......

my best,
pj..

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 13:55:16 1998
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X-Path: ccti.net!don
From: "Don McDonald" <don@ccti.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Boston,MA
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:59:49 +0000
Message-ID: <E0y0CmA-0001Rc-00@mail.ccti.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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The only bad question is the unasked question... 

Don M. McDonald
Director, Web Services
Chesapeake Communications Corporation
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:02:06 1998
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Boston,MA
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:24:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802042024.PAA06798@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>I
Margaret wrote,
First, you must edit any previous responses; now we MUST read the months and
>years worth of archives BEFORE posing a question to this group. 
>
>What is the purpose of this group - to share information or force our
>narrowmindedness on everyone else?  Some ground rules need to apply.
>
As long as its not about stepping stones (only kidding!!)

I think that if a question is redundant and asked and answered to death.
Most people
will direct the person asking the question to the archives or answer off group.

I don't think we need any more grounds rules than common sense.

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:04:39 1998
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From: IMN2GLASS2@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Boston, MA
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:33:00 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.20330.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Dear Lyn,
      I live in Cape Cod, Mass. Unfortunately i know of no Glass shops near
Boston.
I do know of Whittemore Durgin,of Hanover,Mass. It is about forty minutes down
the highway south of boston. I also shop at Stained glass emporium of Rehoboth
,Mass.
That one is a small retail shop/studio that is about forty five minutes from
the cape..
beyond New bedford and Dartmouth,Mass. I usually do alot of my buying mail
order because these places don't always carry what I like. I would also be
interested in Kowing if there were any good glass shops in the
boston/southshore area other than these. Hope this helps somewhat,Judy
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:06:41 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: postings
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:13:28 +0000
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> For my own organizational skills, I like to see the current message at
> the top.  Then if I can't remember what the comment is referring to, I
> can read on, to refresh my memory.

Different strokes.  What you suggest is fine; I prefer to comment 
below the snipped text, but I delete whatever text isn't necessary 
... only keeping that which I'm commenting on.

> someone suggested, because some company is trying to make it seem like
> they handle alot more mail than they really do? Should we contact our
> own ISPs to look into this problem? Or do we just learn to live 
with it?

It's happened before, isn't your fault, will eventually clear up. 
Just delete the stuff you've read before (kinda like pressing the 
"Mute" button the the remote) and move on to the next message.

Albert

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:21:38 1998
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X-Path: city-net.com!tresmith
From: tresmith@city-net.com (Theresa Smith)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: postings
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:52:20 -0500 (EST)
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I occasionally get duplicate postings but not every day and usually it is
contained to one or maybe two users.  If you are using two programs though,
check to make sure that both of them is marked to delete the messages from
the server.  Otherwise you will see the message once in the ISP mail package
and once in Netscape.  I havent used Netscape mail package and your ISPs
package could be one in a million different ones so you may need to check
with them.  In eudora, under Special, Switches mark sure the box besides
"leave mail on server" is not checked.

Theresa

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:21:51 1998
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X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr
From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 02:43:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.184357.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.145117.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island NC USA
Precedence: bulk

I have to disagree on the principle that you haven't got the right to
ask or even to suggest to folks that they change their ISP to accomodate
your editing habits.  This is unsatisfatory and unkind
behaviour-definitely NOT in the bungi spirit of cooperation!  PLEASE
edit, and don't be the reason that someone has to spend great sums of
money to stay online and retrieve unecessary text in their mail, as in
the UK where the phone line is charged by the per/min connection
time...NOR the reason that someone has to quit subscribing to bungi
because they feel offended by you having told them that they either have
to change their ISP to accomodate your stubborness and lazy editing or
SUFFER silently enduring.  NO, I SAY!  YOU should bend a little in
consideration of the others, IMNSHO.

Just my .50 cents worth.. (Inflation you know! ;-D  )

V T Phelps

M. Savad wrote:

> though other's will disagree, you should get a better ISP that does'nt
> charge for that. and besides, what listed above is very confusing. i've
> seen people clip it so much that i have no idea what they're responding
> to. and what was there to edit on the line above, what 4 lines...?
> ---Mike Savad
> -----
> BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> >
> > How about editing the text of the messages you respond to. You are
> > costing some of a considerable amount of money in phone charges for
> > what is often small gain.
> > Bob
> > Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow
> > ____
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:29:27 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:28:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.122815.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

"You're not saying lead is safe,
are you?"

Gads, no, Albert!  But, someone =

questioned whether we knew anyone
who had gotten sick from or died
from lead poisoning working in stained
glass.  We don't know of anyone (except,
of course, Elisabeth's friend).  Makes
me wonder the number of fatalities
in the industry itself.  Any statistics?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:29:35 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Boston,MA
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:28:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.122823.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi pj (you lurker,you!)

I think common sense is a good =

ground rule.  And it would probably
include characteristics like kindness,
patience, consideration, good manners...
although those aren't too common =

anymore.... maybe "good" sense would
be a better ground rule.

Best regards from cold, cloudy Colorado!

Dani =

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:32:21 1998
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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: E-mail Ediquette
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:25:00 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.6250.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

"and the beat goes on" Sony and Cher
	It amazes me the way that people are sometimes, It seems at times like the 
vultures flock at the first sign of an injury and attack in groups. What 
I'm referring to is most recently is the Mike Savad affair with editing, 
 maybe we all should edit a little more, but looking at my mail then there 
are many others who should as well why single a concerned and regular 
contributor, and if volume is a problem then why isn't there more concern 
about anecdotes, stories, and off topic material. One person is criticized 
and the piranhas seem to attack the individual rather than the topic. We 
all need to be concerned a little more with treating each other with 
respect, and I shall keep repeating this as long as it goes on. This 
happened to Albert, Howard, and others. I say lighten up, be gentler. I 
remember when I got this response when trying to smooth out my E mail 
format > "Windat files are unnecessary to any of us and make you look like 
a rookie!" < We are all rookies when it comes to computer programs because 
the problem is not just the sending but the receiving, the differences in 
programs and settings, just too many variables, and comments like that make 
me not want to care what others receive. I receive noise, 3 word columns, 
unedited responses, doubles and triples and irrelevant material and just 
deal with  it the best I can without whining. Give the benefit of the doubt 
and error on the side of kindness!
 Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada
PS Albert did you get the necessary info for my membership via fax?

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:50:16 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison
From: ItsAlison@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: What about Ouroboros?
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:45:13 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.224513.0>
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something happened with the mail I was sending.....sorry for the excess
postings, but aol is acting up by sending the mail before I could type in my
response to the person who asked.
     "Ouroborus" is  the mythological multi-colored rainbow snake that by
legend encircles th world/universe.  Just a bit of trivia, but this glass
company is well named !  
                 ~Alison~
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:50:51 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison
From: ItsAlison@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:40:06 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.22406.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-03 23:12:05 EST, you write:

<< I think someone was pulling
 your leg about the pronunciation.
 Most folks over here pronounce
 it "yock-uh-gay-nee"  and I would
 presume the wholesalers would
 know since they call the factory
 on a regular basis.  But, then
 again, with a name like that.....
 Now, how about Ouroboros? ;-)
 
 Best regard,
 
 Dani Greer =
  >>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:51:26 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: lead poisoning
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:32:46 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.63246.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

You spiked my interest on this one, so I pulled out my medical books and
found very little on the subject.  Most care info is for acute
ingestion.  Which of course is life threatening.
Didn't mention cumulative properties, but I am sure that lead poisoning
is cumulative.
The two main causes of lead poisoning is eating paint for children and
work hazzards for adults, siting solder as one of those.
Symptoms of lead poisoning are a result of chronic ingestion or
inhalation of lead-bearing products. Lead poisoning is most commonly
seen in children exhibiting pica(mulitple bruises the size of skin
pores, usually seen in the mouth)behaviors but also occurs in adults who
have chronically inhaled fumes from motor fuels, batteries, and paints. 
Accidental ingestion can occur from serving acidic liquids from
lead-glazed pottery or antique pewter.  Lead salts are absorbed by the
blood, interfere with hemoglobin production and destroy kidney and brain
tissue.  Mental retardation is permanent in children with CNS(central
nervous system) involvement.
Increased lead levels (>15-50mg/100ml)
This info from a 1990 copyright Nursing Care Plans book
Chief Complaint:  (this is for acute, not sure if it is the same chronic
my guess is they would be similiar.
Motor disturbances: paralysis following seizure, cerebellar ataxia,
hemiplegia, decerebrate rigidity, facial or oculomotor paralysis.
Seizures:  general or focal
Sensory deviations: polyneuritis
Altered Levels of Consciousness: lethargy, coma, delirium
Physical Exam:
Symptoms of acute increased intracranial pressure; optic atrophy,
anemia; wristdrop, footdrop.
This is from a 1982 Nurse's Reference Library series.
Whatever the degree of risk, the outcome forces us to take all the
precautions we can. 
If you are exposed to the above degree of symptoms, then there is a
treatment.  Notice I say treatment. A drug that binds the lead to it and
is then excreted in the urine can be given IV, with of course, lots of
IV fluids to wash it out of your system.  But if these symptoms appear
over a long period of time, then I suspect the lead can not be washed
out of your body and the only thing you can do, is, change your life
style and learn to live with whatever problems it caused. When the lead
binds to blood cells, it interupts their work.  Seems to mainly attact
the nervous system.  Then it will destroy the kidneys, because that is
where the body sends this offending agent to get rid of it.
I wouldn't lie awake at night worrying about it, but I would certainly
recommend taking all the wonderful advise that has been given here at
bungi.
And if you want to know what the big words mean, ask me off bungi and I
will be glad to tell you.
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:56:21 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: proposed new department
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:56:07 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.6567.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Perhaps a department (file) called the redundancy department of redundancy
files may be needed to put the redundant post in so one could check from
time to time to see if there are any new redundant files.   :>)

'nuf from me....I have a lily to finish!

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:56:23 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: postings
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:40:41 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.64041.0>
References: <<m0y0Cwq-00007BC@daver.bungi.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

> It's happened before, isn't your fault, will eventually clear up.

You mean it is all happening in cyberspace?
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 14:56:33 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison
From: ItsAlison@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:39:45 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.223945.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-03 23:12:05 EST, you write:

<< I think someone was pulling
 your leg about the pronunciation.
 Most folks over here pronounce
 it "yock-uh-gay-nee"  and I would
 presume the wholesalers would
 know since they call the factory
 on a regular basis.  But, then
 again, with a name like that.....
 Now, how about Ouroboros? ;-)
 
 Best regard,
 
 Dani Greer =
  >>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 15:12:31 1998
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X-Path: cape.com!sjb
From: Susan Jordan Bennett <sjb@cape.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Where on Cape Cod?
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 18:06:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.13611.0>
References: <<1998Feb4.20330.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'm in Sagamore Beach. Where in Cape Cod are you from, Judy?

Susan 

IMN2GLASS2@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Dear Lyn,
>       I live in Cape Cod, Mass. Unfortunately i know of no Glass shops near
> Boston.
> I do know of Whittemore Durgin,of Hanover,Mass. It is about forty minutes down
> the highway south of boston. I also shop at Stained glass emporium of Rehoboth
> ,Mass.
> That one is a small retail shop/studio that is about forty five minutes from
> the cape..
> beyond New bedford and Dartmouth,Mass. I usually do alot of my buying mail
> order because these places don't always carry what I like. I would also be
> interested in Kowing if there were any good glass shops in the
> boston/southshore area other than these. Hope this helps somewhat,Judy
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 15:56:25 1998
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X-Path: city-net.com!tresmith
From: tresmith@city-net.com (Theresa Smith)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: postings
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:52:20 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802042152.QAA29022@dns.city-net.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I occasionally get duplicate postings but not every day and usually it is
contained to one or maybe two users.  If you are using two programs though,
check to make sure that both of them is marked to delete the messages from
the server.  Otherwise you will see the message once in the ISP mail package
and once in Netscape.  I havent used Netscape mail package and your ISPs
package could be one in a million different ones so you may need to check
with them.  In eudora, under Special, Switches mark sure the box besides
"leave mail on server" is not checked.

Theresa

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 15:56:41 1998
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X-Path: gnt.net!lynb
From: Lyn Butler <lynb@gnt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Boston, MA
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:56:19 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.175619.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to all responses to my question re: shops in and around Boston. 
Most helpful. My daughter thanks you all too.

Appreciatively,
Lyn

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 15:57:22 1998
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X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr
From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 02:43:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb3.184357.0>
References: <<1998Feb2.145117.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island NC USA
Precedence: bulk

I have to disagree on the principle that you haven't got the right to
ask or even to suggest to folks that they change their ISP to accomodate
your editing habits.  This is unsatisfatory and unkind
behaviour-definitely NOT in the bungi spirit of cooperation!  PLEASE
edit, and don't be the reason that someone has to spend great sums of
money to stay online and retrieve unecessary text in their mail, as in
the UK where the phone line is charged by the per/min connection
time...NOR the reason that someone has to quit subscribing to bungi
because they feel offended by you having told them that they either have
to change their ISP to accomodate your stubborness and lazy editing or
SUFFER silently enduring.  NO, I SAY!  YOU should bend a little in
consideration of the others, IMNSHO.

Just my .50 cents worth.. (Inflation you know! ;-D  )

V T Phelps

M. Savad wrote:

> though other's will disagree, you should get a better ISP that does'nt
> charge for that. and besides, what listed above is very confusing. i've
> seen people clip it so much that i have no idea what they're responding
> to. and what was there to edit on the line above, what 4 lines...?
> ---Mike Savad
> -----
> BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> >
> > How about editing the text of the messages you respond to. You are
> > costing some of a considerable amount of money in phone charges for
> > what is often small gain.
> > Bob
> > Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow
> > ____
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 16:01:10 1998
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: What about Ouroboros?
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:59:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.135955.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

What about SwissCheesed GlassWerks?
-
Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

-----Original Message-----
From: ItsAlison@aol.com <ItsAlison@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: February 4, 1998 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: What about Ouroboros?


>something happened with the mail I was sending.....sorry for the excess
>postings, but aol is acting up by sending the mail before I could type in
my
>response to the person who asked.
>     "Ouroborus" is  the mythological multi-colored rainbow snake that by
>legend encircles th world/universe.  Just a bit of trivia, but this glass
>company is well named !
>                 ~Alison~
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 16:08:03 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:28:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.122815.0>
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Precedence: bulk

"You're not saying lead is safe,
are you?"

Gads, no, Albert!  But, someone =

questioned whether we knew anyone
who had gotten sick from or died
from lead poisoning working in stained
glass.  We don't know of anyone (except,
of course, Elisabeth's friend).  Makes
me wonder the number of fatalities
in the industry itself.  Any statistics?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 16:13:20 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Duplicate posts
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:11:09 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.0119.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Okay.  Everyone has been commenting on receiving duplicate and triplicate
posts but has anyone found out how to stop it from happening?

Susie
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 16:16:37 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: penguin pattern?
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:14:32 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.01432.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know where I could find a pattern for a penguin?  I need to make a
few for a group and I'd prefer something simple (suncatcher perhaps?) because
I'm a beginner.

Thank you!

Susie
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 16:24:40 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Boston,MA
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:28:23 -0500
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Hi pj (you lurker,you!)

I think common sense is a good =

ground rule.  And it would probably
include characteristics like kindness,
patience, consideration, good manners...
although those aren't too common =

anymore.... maybe "good" sense would
be a better ground rule.

Best regards from cold, cloudy Colorado!

Dani =

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 16:25:19 1998
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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: E-mail Ediquette
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:25:00 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.6250.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

"and the beat goes on" Sony and Cher
	It amazes me the way that people are sometimes, It seems at times like the 
vultures flock at the first sign of an injury and attack in groups. What 
I'm referring to is most recently is the Mike Savad affair with editing, 
 maybe we all should edit a little more, but looking at my mail then there 
are many others who should as well why single a concerned and regular 
contributor, and if volume is a problem then why isn't there more concern 
about anecdotes, stories, and off topic material. One person is criticized 
and the piranhas seem to attack the individual rather than the topic. We 
all need to be concerned a little more with treating each other with 
respect, and I shall keep repeating this as long as it goes on. This 
happened to Albert, Howard, and others. I say lighten up, be gentler. I 
remember when I got this response when trying to smooth out my E mail 
format > "Windat files are unnecessary to any of us and make you look like 
a rookie!" < We are all rookies when it comes to computer programs because 
the problem is not just the sending but the receiving, the differences in 
programs and settings, just too many variables, and comments like that make 
me not want to care what others receive. I receive noise, 3 word columns, 
unedited responses, doubles and triples and irrelevant material and just 
deal with  it the best I can without whining. Give the benefit of the doubt 
and error on the side of kindness!
 Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada
PS Albert did you get the necessary info for my membership via fax?

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 16:31:35 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS2
From: IMN2GLASS2@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Where on Cape Cod?
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:23:37 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.02337.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Susan ,I live on the  Air national guard base,Wow we are close by too
eachother...where do you get your glass? Email me anytime..Judy
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 16:31:43 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison
From: ItsAlison@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:35:04 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.22354.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-03 22:15:26 EST, you write:

<< << Yock-a-gay-knee  >>
 
 Well, when I called to place an order there a few months ago, I asked them
how
 it was pronounced.  Zane's and Albert's versions were how they told me to say
 it.  Now, does anyone know if the word means anything?  Just curious.
 ---- >>

The Youghiogheny River runs through the nearby area, and is named for an
indian tribe.  I suppose the glass company took its name from the river. their
logo is an indian head.  But I was not aware of the correct
pronunciation.......Thanks!
~Alison~
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 16:46:29 1998
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X-Path: iscweb.com!sherrip
From: Sherri Pierce <sherrip@iscweb.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------59B6197F5EAF"
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Patterns or picture of wolf        (head/shoulder view)]
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:39:37 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.93937.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Pzaz Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------59B6197F5EAF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi there,
	Just got your message about the wolf pattern.  If you will call 
me with your address or E-mail, I will send you a color photo.  I did a 
round about 18" and a large piece - 3'....Thanks to Suzan Haley for your 
request.  The small pattern is 5.95 plus $1.00 ship/hand.  The large one 
is $25.00 plus 3.00 ship/hand.  I do not get to play with this computer 
much...I'm not too literate either.  But I peck away at it.

Sherri

--------------59B6197F5EAF
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Date: Tue, 04 Nov 97 07:19:57 -0800
From: "Suzanne Haley"<shaly@mfi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Patterns or picture of wolf        (head/shoulder view)
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     Carol, 
     Contact Sherri Pierce, Pzaz Glass Studios, Petaluma, CA  (Phone: 707 
     763-6220). e-mail address: sherrip@iscweb.com
     Also has a web page:  http://www.artglassworld.com/studio/pzaz/
     Mary Ellen is her assistant.  Sherri has a pattern book available - 
     Expressions in Glass.  Recently has been doing quite a few designs re 
     endangered species.  I was in her shop last month when she had just 
     finished a stunning wolf (shoulder/head view). Eyes were amazing.  
     At that time she was going to send the pattern, picture of finished 
     work, etc. into Stain Glass Quarterly.  Give her a call, great artist, 
     great shop!  Suzanne Haley
     
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Paterns or picture of wolf
Author:  <glass@bungi.com> at Internet 
Date:    11/3/97 5:03 PM
     
     
Hi :     From another lurker!
A little nervous about sending this request, as I am am quite computer 
illiterate.  Would anyone know where I could find a wolf pattern that 
could be done in copper foil?
Thanks in advance.      Carol
     
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--------------59B6197F5EAF--

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 17:21:46 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: penguin pattern
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:20:52 -0800
Message-ID: <199802050112.RAA02412@intergate.lasercom.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Susie, Following is a list of a bunch of suncatcher penguins I have found
over the past few years.  I believe all these books/patterns are still
available:

6" penguin, in "Sundancers, 1st Edition", by Donna Eller (a book of 62
suncatcher patterns).

Three different sizes (4"-10") of penguins (with scarf & cap) in "Simply
Christmas", by Suzanne Cooper.

Two (4" & 5") in "Scrap Happy", by Frankye & Suzy.

A pair in "Vanishing Wildlife", by Renee Martig.

A mother & baby (about 8") in, "Dreamin' On", by Kathleen.

And, the largest I have found, is a single pattern (not in a book) by
Aurora Publications, "#F30 Penguin on the Town", about 12"-13" tall.

Jean
jean@lasercom.net
California
----------
> From: SusieHUs@aol.com
> 
> Does anyone know where I could find a pattern for a penguin?  I need to
make a
> few for a group and I'd prefer something simple (suncatcher perhaps?)
because
> I'm a beginner.
> 
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 17:23:02 1998
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From: ItsAlison@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: penguin pattern?
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:22:30 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.12230.0>
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In a message dated 98-02-04 19:40:14 EST, you write:

<< Does anyone know where I could find a pattern for a penguin?  I need to
make a
 few for a group and I'd prefer something simple (suncatcher perhaps?) because
 I'm a beginner.
 
 Thank you!
 
 Susie
 ---- >>
Hello Susie,
       There is a simple pattern for a penguin in the pattern book "Scrap
happy" by Frankye Cartner and Suzy Pomeroy, (Published by Suzy Cooper) on page
11. (gee,all these people named Suzy !!)  If you take the penguin out of the
design and do it seperately, I think it is exactly what you are looking for.
       ~Alison~
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 17:30:22 1998
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From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject:  penguin patterns
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:30:40 -0800
Message-ID: <199802050122.RAA02775@intergate.lasercom.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Opps! Found another penguin pattern (about 7 1/2") in, "Images by Terra",
set #1014.

Jean@lasercom.net
California
---------------

Susie wrote:
Does anyone know where I could find a pattern for a penguin?  I need to
make a few for a group and I'd prefer something simple (suncatcher
perhaps?) because I'm a beginner.


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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 17:50:08 1998
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From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net>
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Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:29:36 -0200
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Hi,
This is Gloria..  Some you expressed that you were having e mail =
problems with my mail..  I have received my replies back from me with no =
problems.. I have Microsoft Outlook..  I would like to reply back to the =
group, but do not want to cause you problems.. Any help and suggestions =
would be ap reciated.
Thanks,=20
 Gloria (from 3hounds)

Also, I agree with the person today who said he had problems sending =
directly to the  "glass@bungi.com" address, I also could not connect.. =
In fact this message I composed over a week ago and found it just now =
when I was deleting my Delete Items box. The first message came back =
undeliverable..  
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 18:03:34 1998
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From: Classydad@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: vets and cats
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:59:40 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.15940.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Do any of you know of any patterns for suncatchers or small panels that
include a veterinarian and a cat?  Or perhaps just a veterinarian.  Or maybe
just a cat being held or stroked by a hand.

Thanks.
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:13:01 1998
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Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:18:50 -0500
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>Okay. I've been getting triplicate posts about triplicate posts. <g>
>
>Albert
>

Me Three ...(hehehe...)

Lydia


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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:13:27 1998
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Subject: Re: penguin pattern?
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:42:13 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.94213.0>
References: <<1998Feb5.01432.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Glassmith Studios Has 3 delightful easy penquin patterns.  I believe it
is in their  Work in Progress pattern book.
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:26:06 1998
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: vets and cats
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 98 22:26:11 -0500
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>Do any of you know of any patterns for suncatchers or small panels that
>include a veterinarian and a cat?  Or perhaps just a veterinarian.  Or maybe
>just a cat being held or stroked by a hand.

Sorry, no, never seen either vet or cat with hand. Maybe you could take a 
cat (there's some good ones out there) and insert hand on cat's head?

Suzanne

>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:27:46 1998
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Subject: Re: Boston, MA
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:26:49 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-04 14:46:50 EST, you write:

<< Forgive me for asking a redundant question!
 
 Lyn >>

You don't need to be forgiven for the question you asked.  You had every right
to ask it....keep asking questions.  If the only questions on bungi were ones
that had never been asked before the posts would be few and far between.  Hang
in here Lynn!!  I couldn't believe the response you received.  If it wasn't
for help from most of the people on bungi I would still be lost in cyberspace
and would not have learned some better techniques or different ones.   Lu Ann
(Whispy Blu@aol.com)
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:32:00 1998
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 98 22:33:15 -0500
Message-ID: <199802050331.WAA15568@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'll bite on this one too!

Cardboard beer case bottoms (they are about 18 inches long, 12 inches 
wide and have 2-3 inch sides on them) make good shallow containers for 
scrap glass. If you drink enough beer (!!) you could have one for every 
color in the rainbow. 

My whole bookcase-lined wall is filled with these things. I sort them not 
only by color, but by antique, waterglass, gluechip, spectrum wispy, 
etc.) Works out well for me.

Suzanne
(disclaimer: married to the beer drinker!!)
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:37:42 1998
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
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Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 98 22:39:11 -0500
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Dani wrote:
>>It might SEEM to get boring, but
>>if you go beyond the words to the
>>people who are posting, you =
>>
>>actually get to know them as
>>real spirits... not just words on the
>>Internet.  Try it, you'll like it!

And pj wrote:
>>And you also get to know who has patience, who has a sense of humor,
>who has cats, who has kids, who has a busniess licence, who has
>high lead levels....think this is getting to Howard.......who has a wife,
>who has a husband,......

Suzanne writes:
Right on, Dani & pj! We are all spirits first, glass artists second.
And I know two who have a great sense of humor!





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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:39:37 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: FW: E  Mail problems
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:37:44 -0500
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Hi Gloria-

The only thing I notice is =3D signs
at the end of all your sentences, but
who am I to talk with the CompuServe
formatting problems I have?!!  It's a =

drag and now my spelling is going down
the tubes.... life is hard.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:39:45 1998
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To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: What about Ouroboros?
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:37:36 -0500
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More trivia - there is also a
book entitled "The Worm
Ouroboros" by E.R. Edison in
which the worm symbolizes
renewal or the cyclic nature of
life.  So, I guess a company
that recycles some of their glass
could appropriately be called that.
Wished they'd spelled it the same -
my memory's bad enough as it
is!

Best regards,

DAni Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:40:12 1998
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To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Where on Cape Cod?
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:37:51 -0500
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Hi Lyn-

Just checked in Common Ground:Glass
(the IGGA publication) and they list ten
members in Mass. who may or may not
have retail shops - it's hard to tell from the
name and address.  I suspect they're =

probably also on the IGGA home page,
but Albert could probably tell you more
about that.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:41:24 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chess Board ideas
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 22:36:46 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.143646.0>
References: <<1998Feb3.13531.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island NC USA
Precedence: bulk

What about doing cutouts of the knights, rooks, kings, queens, etc,
using a Taurus Ring Saw, then foiling around the edge and soldering at a
90 degree angle to a small foiled glass circle or something?  I KNOW
that this is a bit of a 'cheat', but I thought it might start the ball
rolling, so to speak...  I too would LOVE to make a stained glass chess
set!  Let's see what the co-op can come up with eh, anyone else?

V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.

WhispyBlu@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-02-03 08:49:08 EST, you write:
> 
> << This was just an experiment with scrap glass I
>  had in my box:)) >>
> 
> Yes, but look at all the interest there is in chessboards and now it's gone on
> to the actual chess pieces, all being made out of glass.  This is something
> I've been pondering myself, as it seems, so have a few others.  Thanks for
> getting it started.
> 
> Lu Ann
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:41:27 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Windows for sale
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:34:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.17341.0>
References: <<199802032018.MAA31543@norm.island.net>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi all.

I got a call from a Mr. Everett Cassidy informing me of some windows that
the Catholic Diocese of Wyoming is looking to sell and I promised to help
out.
Fairly simple windows with painted religious symbols at the top.

(They are also interested in any info including value or maker of the
windows.)

We do not buy old windows here and know little about appraisal so I have
posted them on a web page at:       

www.dodgestudio.com/wndosale.htm

If you want to take a look, the page is just plain spartan, but the pix
are there along with the information about how to contact Mr. Cassidy.

Gary Dodge                   Dodge Studio Designs              
www.dodgestudio.com

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 19:49:14 1998
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X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr
From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 22:47:53 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.144753.0>
References: <<1998Feb3.409.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island NC USA
Precedence: bulk

WOW! I really like this idea!  Is it possible to take a casting of a
favorite set? Do they make stuff that will take an imprint and then be
fire-able?  What sort of detail could be achieved with slumping?  I
don't do hot glass...YET! So, I have no clue at all how the pricing is
structured for slumped glass, lamp-worked glass, etc.  If it's not too
awfully much trouble could you enlighten me somewhat?  You may reply
offline if it's a mere repeat of previous postings, k?

TIA!
V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
> ----
>mike peck wrote:
> 
> Hmmmmm ..... just a thought ..... I wonder if you could make some molds
> of pawns, knights, bishops, etc, and slump scrap glass into them.  Of
> course, you'd have to sort through your scraps to find COE compatible
> colors.  But, it's an idea.
> 
> Mike Peck
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 20:02:39 1998
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From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Duplicate posts
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 22:56:21 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.145621.0>
References: <<m0y00Le-00003ZC@daver.bungi.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island NC USA
Precedence: bulk

Dupes, & trips here too.
V T Phelps

Dupes, & trips here too.
V T Phelps

Dupes, & trips here too.
V T Phelps

Dupes, & trips here too.  [ROFLOL!]
Anyone for quads??
V T Phelps
> ----
>Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > Is there anyone who has not yet commented...please do so all can be heard
> > from and we can be done with it.
> 
> Okay. I've been getting triplicate posts about triplicate posts. <g>
> 
> Albert
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 20:22:13 1998
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X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr
From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Boston, MA
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:21:51 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.152151.0>
References: <<1998Feb4.102312.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island NC USA
Precedence: bulk

There's a fabulously funny catalog I get from a place in Rockland, MA
known as Whittemore-Durgin's.  They sell retail, (but also sell
wholesale only to 'qualified' buyers.)  You take Rte. 3 South from
Boston to the Cape, get off at Exit 14-for Rte. 123/Hingham St. Follow
Hingham St. 2mi & it crosses Water St., then go 1 more mi and take a
left onto Market St. right after the railroad tracks.  Go down Market
St. about a mile and it's 825 Market St., on your right across from
Pace's Gas. Phone #617/871-1790.

Happy hunting!
V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
> ----
>Lyn Butler wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
<<Snippity-snip>>
> Got a question for those who might be able to help. My daughter is
> working in Boston, Mass. and is interested in knowing of any good glass
> shops there or near there. She only just got there so she hasn't had a
> chance to look but you can tell where her priorities are. That's my
> girl! When she goes home on weekends she does her glass work.
> 
> Thanks for any help,
> Lyn
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 20:26:54 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: proposed new department
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 98 23:27:49 -0500
Message-ID: <199802050425.XAA21191@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Howard wrote:
>Perhaps a department (file) called the redundancy department of redundancy
>files may be needed to put the redundant post in so one could check from
>time to time to see if there are any new redundant files.   :>)

Suzanne replies:
My nomination is to nominate that the redundancy department of redundancy 
find a director to direct all redundant posts to their correctly 
redundant department of correctness. 

That way we could have all our redundancies (and also our glass scraps, 
both redundant and non-redundant) in their correctly redundant files.

Redundantly yours,
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 21:03:57 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:33:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.18333.0>
References: <<v01530500b0fd882937e3@[206.186.242.82]>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Silica Dust!!!

It has long been my thought that the biggest exposure most hobbyists get
is not from the grinder, but from drying the ground pieces in towels and
then leaving them around the studio shedding silica dust all around. 
Each ground piece should be immediately placed into water and washed off
before drying.  It also helps to wet your floors a bit with a spray
bottle if you sweep with a broom.

As for lead .......

Some years ago I visited the Canfield factory.  I was very surprised to
see large vats of molten lead and solder, and all of the workers walking
around without masks.  I inquired as to how OSHA didn't protest and was
told that at the temperatures at which solder is made and worked with
lead did not vaporize and was not considered a hazard.

Gary Dodge               Dodge Studio Designs               
www.dodgestudio.com

>> 
>> I have heard stained glass people advising one another to get a 
>blood test
>> if they are concerned about lead. My question is, have any of you 
>ever had
>> a blood test come back positive for high lead?
>> 
>> I have been doing stained glass for over 10 years and although I now 
>take
>> precautions against lead exposure in my workshop, I went many years 
>without
>> paying any attention at all to this risk. I have never tested 
>positive, and
>> I have never met anyone who has.
>> 
>>
>> 
>> , and hearing less about more immediate health 
>risks
>> like silica dust or even fire prevention.
>> 
>> What do you guys say? Am I alone in this viewpoint?
>> 
>> Sarah
>> 
>

_____________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 21:06:25 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
Date: Thu,  5 Feb 1998 00:03:52, -0500
Message-ID: <199802050503.AAA08072@mime4.prodigy.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

WOW! I really like this idea!  Is it possible to take a casting of a
favorite set? Do they make stuff that will take an imprint and then 
be
fire-able?  What sort of detail could be achieved with slumping?  I
don't do hot glass...YET! So, I have no clue at all how the pricing 
is
structured for slumped glass, lamp-worked glass, etc.  If it's not 
too
awfully much trouble could you enlighten me somewhat?  You may reply
offline if it's a mere repeat of previous postings, k?

TIA!

Well maybe I am about to learn something. I think it is to hard but 
here goes.

1. I do not know of an easy way to create molds that will make a 3-D 
chess figure. The glass would need to be heated to much higher than 
the typical fusing temp of about 1500'F.

2. You could make an open face mold and slump into it but the 
impression would be slight and one sided. The greater the detail the 
greater the undesirable mold markings.

3. Fusing a figure from several different glasses is a basic fusing 
technique but the figure would likely be one sided (depending on 
design).

4. You could fuse 3. above on, say, a piece of clear and allow the 
bottom 1/2" of the clear to over hang the shelf thereby creating a 
bend at 90' for a stand up base. This approach is my best bet.

I welcome any other ideas. Bob (with a kiln firing right now).
 

____
Bob Duchesneau (Freeway's mother) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 
26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 21:25:43 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:24:45 -0800
Message-ID: <199802050516.VAA16996@intergate.lasercom.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


I really should take a quick trip down South and see this guy.  It can't be
over 45 min. South of here, part way to San Diego.


----------
> From:  BOB   DUCHESNEAU <YWAH36A@prodigy.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
> Date: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 9:03 PM
> 
> WOW! I really like this idea!  Is it possible to take a casting of a
> favorite set? Do they make stuff that will take an imprint and then 
> be
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 21:38:00 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: proposed new department
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:37:55 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.133755.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

i will second it...

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 21:39:21 1998
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From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:39:05 -0800
Message-ID: <199802050531.VAA17893@intergate.lasercom.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Ooops!  Sent to Bungi in error.  Please ignore.

----------
> From: Jean <jean@lasercom.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
> Date: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 9:24 PM
> 
> 
> I really should take a quick trip down South and see this guy.  It can't
be
> over 45 min. South of here, part way to San Diego.
> 

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 21:42:24 1998
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From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: What about Ouroboros?
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:40:38 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.134038.0>
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Precedence: bulk

My son has an iguana who is aptly called UROBOROS....it sits on his monitor,
so it be a monitor lizard!

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 21:42:54 1998
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From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: E  Mail problems
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:42:24 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.134224.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Gloria, reply to me DIRECTLY...I am using Outlook Express and I will post
back with some of their "stock" wallpapers for a test!

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 21:46:30 1998
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From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: pronounce
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:46:04 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.13464.0>
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driving Howard crazy is often times a SHORT (errr....politically incorrect)
ride.

should use abbreviated in place of.....

A plus about having my "mail" presorted is the TRASH.................

as an aside, I have had NO trouble since I loaded and started using Outlook
Express.
IE4 is pretty good, too.

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 22:32:24 1998
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From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: (Fwd) Blood Tests for Le
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:59:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.195947.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Long--Answer to Sarah

Hi Everyone,
> I have heard stained glass people advising one another to get a blood test
> if they are concerned about lead. My question is, have any of you ever had
> a blood test come back positive for high lead? <

You bet.  Again and again.  I've been taking calls from craftspeople 
including stained glass workers since 1977 and many stained glass workers are 
having problems.  Most often, however, it is their children that having 
high lead counts just from living in a house where the craft was done.

If you need literature, you can start with an early paper:   Landrigan P.J., 
Tamblyn P.B., Nelson M., Kerndt P., Kronoveter K.J., Zack M.M., "Lead 
exposure in stained glass workers.  American Journal of Industrial Medicine 
1(2): 177-180  [1980]

And you might want to talk to Bill Cummings, Cummings Studio in North Adams, 
Mass. whose studio meets that OSHA Lead Standard.  They do regular blood 
lead and air sampling tests on their workers.


> I have been doing stained glass for over 10 years and although I now take
> precautions against lead exposure in my workshop, I went many years without
> paying any attention at all to this risk. I have never tested positive, and
> I have never met anyone who has. <

You don't test "positive" for lead.  All people have lead in their blood.  
What you need to know is how much lead was in your blood in your last test.  
In addition, tests must be taken while you are working with lead regularly.  
After about two weeks, most of the lead from your blood has deposited in your 
bones and tissues and will not register on a blood test.

People who don't work with lead or live in contaminated environments 
usually have blood leads in the range of 1-3 micrograms per deciliter (ug/dL) 
or 0.05-0.14 micromoles/liter (ummol/dL) if you are getting your tests done 
in Canada.

I live in a NYC lead painted apartment on a busy street and I'm up to about 
4 ug/dL.   If you are above this, you are getting some contribution from your 
work.  

Children at 10 ug/dL are losing IQ points. Adults probably are too, but its 
hard to measure adult IQ changes.  

At 15 ug/dL, medical professionals are supposed to "intervene" if children 
have blood leads this high.  And adult should also take immediate action 
to reduce exposure.

At either 20 or 25 ug/dL, most states will forward your tests results to be 
entered in the Centers for Disease Control data bank for surveillance of lead 
toxicity in adults.

The question is: where are you in this spectrum?  

> This may not be very politically correct, but how much lead can we possibly
> take in while working with glass? Despite what some people say, lead isn't
> absorbed through the skin, that is what the skin is for - to keep out
> foreign matter, and it works pretty well.<

We don't know how much it contributes, but lead goes right thought the skin.  
The only study of this phenomena was done in 1988.  I have the whole study 
and it was also discussed in Lancet, Issue 16, July 1988.  If you'd like a 
copy, let me know.

> So we either inhale it or ingest it, and how much really gets in your 
> mouth?<

Soldering creates an invisible lead fume particle that can be inhaled.   This 
particle will also contaminate the workspace, your hair, clothing, etc. 
Ingestion occurs when small amounts are transferred from hands to food.  

> We seem to spend a lot of time worrying about lead, and hearing less
> about more immediate health risks like silica dust or even fire prevention.<

You don't have silica exposures in stained glass normally.  Glass is a 
silicate and doesn't cause silicosis.   Lead is a much more serious long-term 
problem.  And women who get pregnant, mobilize that lead they've stored in 
their bones and provide it to the fetus.  It makes no sense for women to take 
this attitude toward lead.

> What do you guys say? 

Sheeshh.  Amazing and depressing.

> Am I alone in this viewpoint? <

I profoundly hoped you were, but I saw a couple other posts from people 
as misinformed as you are.  Very scary.

 
Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York, NY 10012-2586  212/777-0062

http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Chess Boards
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:48:21 +0000
Message-ID: <m0y0L6Y-00007mC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I don't knowwhere the name came from, but the Staunton designisthe only 
design acceptable in tourementchess

It is the one were the pawns have the little ball onthe top, the bishop has a 
ball on the top, is taller and has a slit in it.  The peices re distinctive and 
easy to differentiate from each other.  

I eprsonally prefer something prettier


On  4 Feb 98, Toby wrote:

> been planning to do a chess board (for myself). To make the chess 
> pieces as well (perhaps in other materials...?) sounds absolutely 
> delicious! Staunton Pattern. Staunton WHO?? 
Myrddn

Solder while the iron is hot
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 23:07:06 1998
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>,
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Subject: Re: E-mail Ediquette
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:04:22 +0000
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Hear Hear.  Well said!!

On  4 Feb 98, Glenn Spicer wrote:

> a rookie!" < We are all rookies when it comes to computer programs because the
> problem is not just the sending but the receiving, the differences in programs
> and settings, just too many variables, and comments like that make me not want
> to care what others receive. I receive noise, 3 word columns, unedited
> responses, doubles and triples and irrelevant material and just deal with  it
> the best I can without whining. Give the benefit of the doubt and error on the
> side of kindness!
Myrddn

Solder while the iron is hot
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 23:15:30 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: proposed new department
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 02:09:58 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb4.18958.0>
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island NC USA
Precedence: bulk

I third it, is the motion carried Glenna?
Shall we send them to <redundant@bungi.com> or
<dept-of-redundancy@bungi.com>, hmmmm?
[with a VBG] V T Phelps

> ----
>Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote:
> 
> i will second it...
> 
> weaver51@teleport.com
> http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
> enmeshed in the internet
> trapped in the world wide web
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 23:16:12 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: lead poisoning: I fear beating a dead horse
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 22:00:27 -0800
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Shirley Balloch wrote:
> 
> After I sent that last bit.  I thought why not check out the internet.
> I got like 16,000 hits.
> I looked through the first 80. They were mostly concerned with children.
> But I did find 2 sites that may answer some questions.  Gave me alot
> more to think about.
> You know me, I never get these things right, but here goes.
> http://www.dmp.csiro.au/safety/lead.htm
> http://www.medaccess.com/newsletter/nl0715/article2.htm

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 23:16:26 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Silicosis
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 21:52:32 -0800
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Seems like us stepping stone makers have a double whammy on this one.
Found two sites with info on this one:
http://www.osha.sle.gov/OshDoc/Fact_data/FSN96-54.html
http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/as/28249.html
Anything else hazzardous in this field you want me to find a site about?
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  4 23:20:57 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: lead poisoning: I fear beating a dead horse
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:30:52 -0800
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After I sent that last bit.  I thought why not check out the internet.
I got like 16,000 hits.
I looked through the first 80. They were mostly concerned with children.
But I did find 2 sites that may answer some questions.  Gave me alot
more to think about.
You know me, I never get these things right, but here goes.
http://www.dmp.csiro.au/safety/lead.htm
http://www.medaccess.com/newsletter/nl0715/article2.htm
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 00:11:38 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: (Fwd) Blood Tests for Le
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:01:15 -0800
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> You don't have silica exposures in stained glass normally.  Glass is a
> silicate and doesn't cause silicosis.  

Please please tell me this also goes for those of us who use our
grinders as our second glass cutter.
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 00:15:37 1998
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From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: lead poisening
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:14:45 -0800
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After I sent that last bit.  I thought why not check out the internet.
> I got like 16,000 hits.
> I looked through the first 80. They were mostly concerned with children.
> But I did find 2 sites that may answer some questions.  Gave me alot
> more to think about.
> You know me, I never get these things right, but here goes.
> http://www.dmp.csiro.au/safety/lead.htm
> http://www.medaccess.com/newsletter/nl0715/article2.htm



> Seems like us stepping stone makers have a double whammy on this one.
> Found two sites with info on this one:
> http://www.osha.sle.gov/OshDoc/Fact_data/FSN96-54.html
> http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/as/28249.html
> Anything else hazzardous in this field you want me to find a site about?
> ----
>
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 00:30:41 1998
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From: Phil <mdcglas@hawk.rmplc.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 98 08:31:06 +0000
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Mike Savad wrote

>my editing is fine, i have no idea what people want,

what editing! ;-)

brevity Mike thats what we want

Phil
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 01:05:49 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Where on Cape Cod?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 04:12:42 +0000
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> Just checked in Common Ground:Glass
> (the IGGA publication) and they list ten
> members in Mass. who may or may not
> have retail shops - it's hard to tell from the
> name and address.  I suspect they're =
> 
> probably also on the IGGA home page,
> but Albert could probably tell you more
> about that.

We've been posting the newest members, but not the entire list ... 
I've been thinking about putting up the entire list, though.

Albert

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 01:06:11 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
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Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
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> Makes
> me wonder the number of fatalities
> in the industry itself.  Any statistics?

Not from me ... Monona maybe. I think most instances are hushed up; 
too horrible to discuss, company wouldn't want it known, etc.

There *was a report a few years ago about a glassmaker who ate a 
spoonful of arsenic as a way of committing suicide (horrible, 
horrible!), but the company very quickly began denying that had 
happened, no surprise.

Albert

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 01:06:26 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
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Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 04:12:42 +0000
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> I welcome any other ideas. Bob (with a kiln firing right now).

Pate de verre will produce 3-dimensional pieces. Whole 'nuther glass 
technique, though.

Albert

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 01:07:03 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: E-mail Ediquette
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Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 04:12:42 +0000
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> PS Albert did you get the necessary info for my membership via fax?

Yes, thanks. Your membership kit's on the way. <s>

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
Membership    http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm
Members' work http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm
Sources Guide http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm
Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 01:09:37 1998
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From: Phil <mdcglas@hawk.rmplc.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: E-mail Ediquette
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 98 09:11:24 +0000
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Glenn Spicer wrote

>What 
>I'm referring to is most recently is the Mike Savad affair with editing, 
> maybe we all should edit a little more

It's true that we should all pay attention to editing - but I think the 
reason that mike has borne the brunt of this is that this whole thread is 
a repeat of one that occured - about a year ago - I think, and his 
attitude at that time was the same as it is this time - that's the way I 
do it so there!

even if those quoting multiple replies would remove the

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Part from each message it would help!

Phil
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 03:50:36 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
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Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit
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Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:55:22 +0000
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> >my editing is fine, i have no idea what people want,

Mike, despite your feeling that your editing is fine, it obviously 
isn't what the members of this group would prefer.  They would like 
for you to not repeat entire messages, appending your often very 
short comments to them.

What people want is for you to be considerate, to clip only a very 
short bit of any message, just that bit that you're responding to, 
adding your response to it. They won't have any trouble following 
your thread.

Since you're convinced that what you're doing is all right, that 
you're fine and everyone else is wrong ... your attitude for months, 
years even ... it's apparent you're not going to do the polite thing, 
the thoughtful thing to try to get along and avoid angering and 
frustrating everyone else -- not to mention cost them money (I'm 
thinking of the UK participants here), this is what I suggest:

You do whatever you want (as if) and the rest of us can either:

1. set filters so that we don't even *see messages from you
2. ignore your continuing rudeness and get back to talking glass

The UK members seem to be ready to absorb the additional expense to 
them caused by your refusal to edit ... at least they've resigned 
themselves to it, given your obstinate refusal to be thoughtful and 
considerate ... the rest of us, more fortunate mostly for having 
flat-rate phone service, can opt for item one or two above.

Albert

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 05:39:21 1998
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Blood Tests for Lead
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:37:57 -0500 (EST)
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Albert wrote,
>
>There *was a report a few years ago about a glassmaker who ate a 
>spoonful of arsenic as a way of committing suicide (horrible, 
>horrible!), but the company very quickly began denying that had 
>happened, no surprise.


Must have been dealing with some of our interior designers. 

my best,
pj (who loves all of our clients)

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 05:43:46 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@BUNGI.COM'" <glass@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Skyhooks
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:38:12 -0500
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Monkey wrenches and T-Squares come in left and right handedness...Sky hook are universal....<BG>

Linda



Dani said:

Were you looking for left-handed
skyhooks, or right? ;)


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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 05:55:22 1998
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:53:05 -0500 (EST)
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Danie worte,
>Hi pj (you lurker,you!)

I was not lurking.....I was selectivly reading.

Glad to hear you spelling is going too.
Wonder if it has to do with glass?
Or solder fumes?  Maybe they attach themselves
to the part of you brain that makes you able to
think, spell and typeat the same time..  I can also chew gum at the
same time so I didn't think that was it.

Ah ...I wonder if rambling has something
to do with enviornmental conditions.  I guess
I'd better check the filter in the exhaust.

my best,
pj (today I will not judge)




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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 05:56:29 1998
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From:         HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu
To:           glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:      Re: proposed new department
Date:         Thu, 05 Feb 98 08:53:19 EST
Message-ID:   <980205.085436.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
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Suzanne--
i pride myself on having no redundant glass scraps.
Redundant patterns, yes.
Redundant files...I have a lot too many.
But not glass scraps.
Dorothy

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 06:14:33 1998
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Subject: pronounce
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:11:31 -0500
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Message text written by Myrddn:
>how do you pronounce Youghiogheny. ?<

Yauk-a-gay-nee is how we in the Philadelphia area pronounce it.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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Message text written by Myrddn:
>how do you pronounce Youghiogheny. ?<

Yauk-a-gay-nee is how we in the Philadelphia area pronounce it.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 07:02:57 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: vets and cats
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 09:59:23 -0500
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Classydad@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Do any of you know of any patterns for suncatchers or small panels that
> include a veterinarian and a cat?  Or perhaps just a veterinarian.  Or maybe
> just a cat being held or stroked by a hand.
> 
> Thanks.
> ----

i know there are like a million cat designs out there, but the vet part
may have to be customly done.

---Mike Savad




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and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 07:08:50 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chess Boards and pieces
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:04:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.5451.0>
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NCScouter wrote:
> 
> WOW! I really like this idea!  Is it possible to take a casting of a
> favorite set? Do they make stuff that will take an imprint and then be
> fire-able?  What sort of detail could be achieved with slumping?  I
> don't do hot glass...YET! So, I have no clue at all how the pricing is
> structured for slumped glass, lamp-worked glass, etc.  If it's not too
> awfully much trouble could you enlighten me somewhat?  You may reply
> offline if it's a mere repeat of previous postings, k?
> 
> TIA!
> V T Phelps
> Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
> > ----
> >mike peck wrote:
> >
> > Hmmmmm ..... just a thought ..... I wonder if you could make some molds
> > of pawns, knights, bishops, etc, and slump scrap glass into them.  Of
> > course, you'd have to sort through your scraps to find COE compatible
> > colors.  But, it's an idea.
> >
> > Mike Peck
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


hydrocal takes exellant detail but you can only fire it once. i tried
slumping glass in a small form i made using filigree. one was a
butterfly and it picked up all the minute lines. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 07:26:14 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: I Like Mike's Refusal to Edit 
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:21:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.52143.0>
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > >my editing is fine, i have no idea what people want,
> 
> Mike, despite your feeling that your editing is fine, it obviously
> isn't what the members of this group would prefer.  They would like
> for you to not repeat entire messages, appending your often very
> short comments to them.
> 
> What people want is for you to be considerate, to clip only a very
> short bit of any message, just that bit that you're responding to,
> adding your response to it. They won't have any trouble following
> your thread.
> 
> Since you're convinced that what you're doing is all right, that
> you're fine and everyone else is wrong ... your attitude for months,
> years even ... it's apparent you're not going to do the polite thing,
> the thoughtful thing to try to get along and avoid angering and
> frustrating everyone else -- not to mention cost them money (I'm
> thinking of the UK participants here), this is what I suggest:
> 
> You do whatever you want (as if) and the rest of us can either:
> 
> 1. set filters so that we don't even *see messages from you
> 2. ignore your continuing rudeness and get back to talking glass
> 
> The UK members seem to be ready to absorb the additional expense to
> them caused by your refusal to edit ... at least they've resigned
> themselves to it, given your obstinate refusal to be thoughtful and
> considerate ... the rest of us, more fortunate mostly for having
> flat-rate phone service, can opt for item one or two above.
> 
> Albert
> 

the most anyone can be downloading at anyone time could'nt be anymore
than a few K. text does'nt take up that much space, the triplicate posts
take up way more than that. 

when i do respond it's almost always way more that a word or two, unless
of course those are the only ones you read. i may respond to many things
in the paragraph, and i'm not about to waste a bunch of time going
through what i don't want in there. 

i say read if you want to or don't it's not terribly repeated, i've seen
worse. i've seen no qouting at all, do you like that? it's short is'nt
it. a real pleasure to read. you don't need to scroll at all. you have
no idea what they're replying about, but that's ok, becuase it's very
edited. 

most of the texts that i'm replying to are a paragraph or so, are you
telling me that your too lazy to scroll down to read the new stuff? the
whole message could'nt be more than 1-2K. how short does it have to be?
most people (including myself), download, read it, deleat it. but some
messages i put aside. months later i may use them for reference, if it
does'nt have the original statement in it, there may be no way of
remembering what it was about.

---Mike Savad




-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 07:26:41 1998
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: proposed new department
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:24:29 PST
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[In the message entitled "Re: proposed new department" on Feb  5,  2:09, "NCScouter" writes:]
> I third it, is the motion carried Glenna?
> Shall we send them to <redundant@bungi.com> or
> <dept-of-redundancy@bungi.com>, hmmmm?
> [with a VBG] V T Phelps
> > 
> > i will second it...

Send them to your ISP (if it's duplicate msgs. you're talking about)


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 07:33:18 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:23:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.52324.0>
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Phil wrote:
> 
> Mike Savad wrote
> 
> >my editing is fine, i have no idea what people want,
> 
> what editing! ;-)
> 
> brevity Mike thats what we want
> 
> Phil
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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that's nice....why? your going to read it and delete it anyway. is it
becuase everyone has to scroll down a little, they don't want to move
they're hand a little bit? i don't see the point.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 07:44:13 1998
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X-Path: tiac.net!phil7
From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:38:41 -0500
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I have for the last six to eight months, filtered out Mike's messages.
There is no excuse for his being on the list, using his editing
principles.

phil7
(I'll stand close to the monitor, absorbing all the electronic spears
that will soon be chucked at me.)



Albert Lewis wrote:

> > >my editing is fine, i have no idea what people want,
>
> Mike, despite your feeling that your editing is fine, it obviously
> isn't what the members of this group would prefer.  They would like
> for you to not repeat entire messages, appending your often very
> short comments to them.



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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 07:46:25 1998
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From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: FW: E  Mail problems
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 11:54:54 -0500
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Organization: Nadine's Folly
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Gloria and George. . .
I have no problems with your messages. . .but I do get everything three
times!  Could it be because the bungi address appears three times in
reply to, to and to again?
                                          Regards,  Nadine

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 07:52:10 1998
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From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:02:13 -0600
Message-ID: <199802051548.JAA10469@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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>
>it's apparent you're not going to do the polite thing,
>the thoughtful thing


 This is an unmoderated group in the sense that the list owner does not
oversee and kill threads.

The.... hints from Heloise segment.... and the.... you say "po-tay-toe" I
say "po-tah-toe".... thread are sort of cyberspace convivialty things.. If
you like it great......if not delete... I did

But IMHO a high percentage of off topic and bearly relevent discussions the
persist until every unlurker has thier say stifles the growth and maturation
of Bungi. There are only a small percentage of buginians that post
regularly. Most are lurkers who are subscribed to this list for a variety of
reasons and I know from my own experience as a subscriber to a list that is
devoted to a subject that I have a great passion for, but relatively
speaking, very little knowledge of, that unless I have a  proven positive
fact from my own experience to contribute, I just lurk. I don't guess just
to have something to say.

I thoroughly enjoy this list. As a former "pro" it is a very pleasent
diversion from my work-a-day world. It keeps me in contact with the goings
on in the SG biz and I do appreciate that. Besides its a great place to
procrastinate once in a while.  :-)

The tone and feel of bungi these days is more suited to a chat room or a
newsgroup which is fine if thats how it evolves. If we are here to learn and
elevate the craft and put Bungi in the position of being a premier dispenser
of SG info on the net then alot of what gets discusssed is just wasted
bandwidth to me.

Just my 0.02...... Flame away

Len

In Wisconsin where El Nino is our friend






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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 07:52:45 1998
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From: IreneMerm@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: vets and cats
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:47:02 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.15472.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

One of the things I have discovered in the very short time that I have been
doing stained glass is that preschool teacher manuals have large patterns in
them that are very easy to convert to stained glass patterns. I know that in
some of the pattern books they have people "in careers" including
veterinarians. They also have pictures of cats.  Though you probably wouldn't
find them together in one picture.   Also, from another craft I do, I have a
small light table that is easy to use and inexpensive to buy for copying parts
of patterns for suncatchers.  Hope these ideas help you find the patterns that
you want to do.  Sincerely, Irene Mermelstein
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 08:42:56 1998
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From: Bonnie <glswrks@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: E-mail Ediquette
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:39:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.03912.0>
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It appears that we could all use better editing skills!
See 'subject' area..this is NOT RE; "E-mail Ediquette"

Also, all the signature additions to this make for a long (therefore
costly to  UK) post.

Maybe we should all practice what we preach... and get back to glass!


"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
--------------------------


---Albert Lewis  wrote:
>
> 
> > PS Albert did you get the necessary info for my membership via fax?
> 
> Yes, thanks. Your membership kit's on the way. <s>
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
> A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
> 54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
> (413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
> _____________________________________________
> Home page     http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
> Membership    http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm
> Members' work http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm
> Sources Guide http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm
> Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 08:43:31 1998
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X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones
From: "Robert E. Jones" <rejones@CapAccess.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:47:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.6478.0>
References: <<m0y0Pni-0000G3C@daver.bungi.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

When we last had the problem with this whole editting thing, I had a real 
PROBLEM with Mike's tag 'novel'  It was, at that time, 13 or 14 lines of 
advertisement for his webpage.

And in fairness to him, at that time there were a great number of people 
who just quoted the whole message to respond to just part of it.  Some 
messages had the entire bungi tag as many as 5 times.  Almost everyone 
has gotten better at editing.

Enough about inane matters, let's talk glass.

Bob Jones                        rejones@capaccess.org

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 08:50:37 1998
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X-Path: yahoo.com!glswrks
From: Bonnie <glswrks@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: E-mail Ediquette
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:48:52 -0800 (PST)
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This message bears repeating,  I think  a great many of the Bungi's
missed it... or didn't understand it!


---Myrddn  wrote:
>
> Hear Hear.  Well said!!
> 
> On  4 Feb 98, Glenn Spicer wrote:
> 
> > ......comments like that make me not want
> > to care what others receive. I receive noise, 3 word columns,
unedited
> > responses, doubles and triples and irrelevant material and just
deal with  it
> > the best I can without whining. Give the benefit of the doubt and
error on the
> > side of kindness!
> Myrddn
>
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 08:53:19 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:17:05 -0600
Message-ID: <199802051603.KAA11982@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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-
>that's nice....why? your going to read it and delete it anyway. is it
>becuase everyone has to scroll down a little, they don't want to move
>they're hand a little bit? i don't see the point.

Mike, I think your problem might be that you move your hand up and down a
little to much

Len





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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 08:59:09 1998
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From: "Robert E. Jones" <rejones@CapAccess.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:03:30 -0500 (EST)
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On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Philip McRae wrote:

> I have for the last six to eight months, filtered out Mike's messages.
> There is no excuse for his being on the list, using his editing
> principles.
> 
> phil7
> (I'll stand close to the monitor, absorbing all the electronic spears
> that will soon be chucked at me.)

No spears just kudos.

Bob

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 09:05:36 1998
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X-Path: ccti.net!don
From: "Don McDonald" <don@ccti.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit
Summary: Authenticated sender is <don@eve.corp.ccti.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:43:08 +0000
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> I have for the last six to eight months, filtered out Mike's messages.
> There is no excuse for his being on the list, using his editing
> principles.
>
I agree!  There is no excuse for his being on the list.  He can't 
edit messages and posts regularly.  Why in the month of November '97 
alone he:
 
told us how to get 3-M samples for free
explained the use of caulks
answered a question about fabrique glass
explained how to put stairs up the side of a lighthouse
gave the url for a page on morse
asked a question about venting lamps
announced his very useful and interesting page update
offered suggestions to a newbie on cutting curves
gave tips on how to foil inside curves without splitting the foil
described how to make frames for wedding invitations
 described how to sandwich dried flowers between glass 
explained the care of a taurus saw 
described how he disposes of grinder goop 
suggested alternate vendors for a light table 
described how to use mirror 
directed someone to gargoyle patterns 
helped someone diagnose "sticky goo" problems 
offered practical suggestions to someone who got a huge roll of 
plumbers solder 
explained patina and all it's colors to a newbie who 
asked 
told how he dealt with a leaking toyo cutter 
gave a step-by-step on decorative soldering to a newbie 
gave another newbie steps on keeping a good finish on solder 
pointed to directons for settup of a shop 
offered cutting tips 
described how to make a pattern for a black lab someone needed 
offered glass suggestions on the black lab

He forgot to put down other's work and complain about irrelevant 
posts.  He just seems to talk about glass, at least until he's pulled 
into another discussion by name. Hmmmm.....wonder why this is going 
to "glass@bungi.com?"

Don M. McDonald
Director, Web Services
Chesapeake Communications Corporation
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 09:06:29 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: concrete editing suggestions 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:30:28 -0800
Message-ID: <199802051630.IAA31909@norm.island.net>
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I'm noticing a lot of mud being slung at Mike so no wonder he's being
defensive. (Mike, I did poke a bit of fun at you myself early on...I'm
hoping it wasn't interpreted as mud), and very little in the way of concrete
advice about how/what could be edited by any member of this group who
chooses to do so.

So, here's a few things that I always do when I'm replying to someone.

1) edit out any tag lines on the original message, signatures, web pages,
cute little sayings (some of which I quite enjoy before pressing the delete
button), as well as the bungi tag line that was added to the original post.
After all, it's not important to have the bungi tag line posted two or three
times...and I know Dave's computer will add it again.  It's also not
important to repeat someone's signature line...several of us (myself
included) have signature lines that are 2,3 or more lines, and why repeat
that over and over????

2) sometimes I change the subject line if the thread has strayed completely
from whatever the subject line says.

3) I scan over the message briefly and delete any paragraphs or lines that
don't apply to what I'm going to be talking about.  I make sure that what I
leave does convey the flavour of what prompted me to respond so readers can
pick up on the thought process.

4) I add in my message (and here, I know I'm at fault as I often type in
runon sentences, and I know my gramattical editing could be better...I
already flagellate myself on that after I've pushed the send button, so
don't do it for me <g>)

5) I scan over the message to make sure that it will be intelligible to
someone following the thread I'm replying to and hit the send button.

Speaking personally, I'm more than willing to take the few seconds it takes
to tidy things up (not just for the UK folk who pay for their phone lines by
the minute, plus their ISP fees), but for all of us who are working full
time plus...those who have glass as a second business, as well as those of
us whose studios support us (and I think we all work more than 40 hr a week
anyway).  It's a function of life in the 90s that everything has to be
abbreviated and brief so we can cram everything into a day we need to.

Carol Swann

(who hopes this helps to smooth troubled waters, rather than contribute to
the storm)

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 09:12:59 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Pick-On-Mike Project
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:11:56 -0800
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This type of 'flame' would not be allowed on most other lists, and should
not be allowed on Bungi! It serves no useful purpose to the list! In fact,
it is detrimental to the well-being of the group. 

Let's get back to glass, remembering the childhood adage, "If you can't say
something nice about someone, say nothing at all!"


----------
> From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
> Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 8:17 AM
> 
> 
> Mike, I think your problem might be that you move your hand up and down a
> little to much
> 
> Len
> 
> 
> 

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 09:36:23 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: I Like Mike's Refusal to Edit 
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:21:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.52143.0>
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > >my editing is fine, i have no idea what people want,
> 
> Mike, despite your feeling that your editing is fine, it obviously
> isn't what the members of this group would prefer.  They would like
> for you to not repeat entire messages, appending your often very
> short comments to them.
> 
> What people want is for you to be considerate, to clip only a very
> short bit of any message, just that bit that you're responding to,
> adding your response to it. They won't have any trouble following
> your thread.
> 
> Since you're convinced that what you're doing is all right, that
> you're fine and everyone else is wrong ... your attitude for months,
> years even ... it's apparent you're not going to do the polite thing,
> the thoughtful thing to try to get along and avoid angering and
> frustrating everyone else -- not to mention cost them money (I'm
> thinking of the UK participants here), this is what I suggest:
> 
> You do whatever you want (as if) and the rest of us can either:
> 
> 1. set filters so that we don't even *see messages from you
> 2. ignore your continuing rudeness and get back to talking glass
> 
> The UK members seem to be ready to absorb the additional expense to
> them caused by your refusal to edit ... at least they've resigned
> themselves to it, given your obstinate refusal to be thoughtful and
> considerate ... the rest of us, more fortunate mostly for having
> flat-rate phone service, can opt for item one or two above.
> 
> Albert
> 

the most anyone can be downloading at anyone time could'nt be anymore
than a few K. text does'nt take up that much space, the triplicate posts
take up way more than that. 

when i do respond it's almost always way more that a word or two, unless
of course those are the only ones you read. i may respond to many things
in the paragraph, and i'm not about to waste a bunch of time going
through what i don't want in there. 

i say read if you want to or don't it's not terribly repeated, i've seen
worse. i've seen no qouting at all, do you like that? it's short is'nt
it. a real pleasure to read. you don't need to scroll at all. you have
no idea what they're replying about, but that's ok, becuase it's very
edited. 

most of the texts that i'm replying to are a paragraph or so, are you
telling me that your too lazy to scroll down to read the new stuff? the
whole message could'nt be more than 1-2K. how short does it have to be?
most people (including myself), download, read it, deleat it. but some
messages i put aside. months later i may use them for reference, if it
does'nt have the original statement in it, there may be no way of
remembering what it was about.

---Mike Savad




-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 09:37:13 1998
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From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject:  Mike's Refusal to Edit
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:45:38 -0600
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-----Original Message-----
From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit


>>
>>it's apparent you're not going to do the polite thing,
>>the thoughtful thing


 This is an unmoderated group in the sense that the list owner does not
oversee and kill threads.

The.... hints from Heloise segment.... and the.... you say "po-tay-toe" I
say "po-tah-toe".... thread are sort of cyberspace convivialty things.. If
you like it great......if not delete... I did

But IMHO a high percentage of off topic and bearly relevent discussions the
persist until every unlurker has thier say stifles the growth and maturation
of Bungi. There are only a small percentage of buginians that post
regularly. Most are lurkers who are subscribed to this list for a variety of
reasons and I know from my own experience as a subscriber to a list that is
devoted to a subject that I have a great passion for, but relatively
speaking, very little knowledge of, that unless I have a  proven positive
fact from my own experience to contribute, I just lurk. I don't guess just
to have something to say.

I thoroughly enjoy this list. As a former "pro" it is a very pleasent
diversion from my work-a-day world. It keeps me in contact with the goings
on in the SG biz and I do appreciate that. Besides its a great place to
procrastinate once in a while.  :-)

The tone and feel of bungi these days is more suited to a chat room or a
newsgroup which is fine if thats how it evolves. If we are here to learn and
elevate the craft and put Bungi in the position of being a premier dispenser
of SG info on the net then alot of what gets discusssed is just wasted
bandwidth to me.

Just my 0.02...... Flame away

Len

In Wisconsin where El Nino is our friend








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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 09:37:16 1998
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From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:02:13 -0600
Message-ID: <199802051548.JAA10469@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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>
>it's apparent you're not going to do the polite thing,
>the thoughtful thing


 This is an unmoderated group in the sense that the list owner does not
oversee and kill threads.

The.... hints from Heloise segment.... and the.... you say "po-tay-toe" I
say "po-tah-toe".... thread are sort of cyberspace convivialty things.. If
you like it great......if not delete... I did

But IMHO a high percentage of off topic and bearly relevent discussions the
persist until every unlurker has thier say stifles the growth and maturation
of Bungi. There are only a small percentage of buginians that post
regularly. Most are lurkers who are subscribed to this list for a variety of
reasons and I know from my own experience as a subscriber to a list that is
devoted to a subject that I have a great passion for, but relatively
speaking, very little knowledge of, that unless I have a  proven positive
fact from my own experience to contribute, I just lurk. I don't guess just
to have something to say.

I thoroughly enjoy this list. As a former "pro" it is a very pleasent
diversion from my work-a-day world. It keeps me in contact with the goings
on in the SG biz and I do appreciate that. Besides its a great place to
procrastinate once in a while.  :-)

The tone and feel of bungi these days is more suited to a chat room or a
newsgroup which is fine if thats how it evolves. If we are here to learn and
elevate the craft and put Bungi in the position of being a premier dispenser
of SG info on the net then alot of what gets discusssed is just wasted
bandwidth to me.

Just my 0.02...... Flame away

Len

In Wisconsin where El Nino is our friend






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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 09:40:29 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Petina
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:39:00 -0800
Message-ID: <199802051730.JAA08426@intergate.lasercom.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


I received a small St. Glass Christmas ornament from a friend who would
like me to make here a couple dz for gifts next year.  The patina is such a
bright, clear, 'gold' finish I am wondering if there is a new patina out
somewhere that I am not familiar with?  The ornament has had no other
treatment of any kind, simply soldered and patinad.   Any ideas?



Jean

jean@lasercom.net

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 09:45:34 1998
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From: Robin Jones <rjones@nysernet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:47:03 -0500
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Please remove me from the list.


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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 09:53:46 1998
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From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: North Wales, PA
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:42:45 EST
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Where is North Wales, PA? How far from Philadelphia? I live in Phila, go to
Rainbow in Bristol, PA and W-C in Allentown for retail glass shopping...would
sure like to expand my horizons if not too far. Do you sell retail? Can you
provide directions and time estimate? Thanks much.
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 09:55:17 1998
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Subject: Re: I Like Mike's Refusal to Edit 
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 11:27:17 -0500
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>the most anyone can be downloading at anyone time could'nt be anymore
>than a few K. text does'nt take up that much space, the triplicate posts
>take up way more than that. 
>
>when i do respond it's almost always way more that a word or two, unless
>of course those are the only ones you read. i may respond to many things
>in the paragraph, and i'm not about to waste a bunch of time going
>through what i don't want in there. 
>
>i say read if you want to or don't it's not terribly repeated, i've seen
>worse. i've seen no qouting at all, do you like that? it's short is'nt
>it. a real pleasure to read. you don't need to scroll at all. you have
>no idea what they're replying about, but that's ok, becuase it's very
>edited. 
>
>most of the texts that i'm replying to are a paragraph or so, are you
>telling me that your too lazy to scroll down to read the new stuff? the
>whole message could'nt be more than 1-2K. how short does it have to be?
>most people (including myself), download, read it, deleat it. but some
>messages i put aside. months later i may use them for reference, if it
>does'nt have the original statement in it, there may be no way of
>remembering what it was about.
>
>---Mike Savad

Mike, this may be all well and good for those who get individual postings,
but on the digest version, wading through many pages of repeated messages
and bungi-list signatures is a major pain in the butt.  

Some of you may sit around all day and just read email, but for those of us
with limited time, I think a little courtesy is not too much to ask.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
Ohio

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 09:58:45 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!IreneMerm
From: IreneMerm@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: vets and cats
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:47:02 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.15472.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

One of the things I have discovered in the very short time that I have been
doing stained glass is that preschool teacher manuals have large patterns in
them that are very easy to convert to stained glass patterns. I know that in
some of the pattern books they have people "in careers" including
veterinarians. They also have pictures of cats.  Though you probably wouldn't
find them together in one picture.   Also, from another craft I do, I have a
small light table that is easy to use and inexpensive to buy for copying parts
of patterns for suncatchers.  Hope these ideas help you find the patterns that
you want to do.  Sincerely, Irene Mermelstein
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:04:27 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Rag
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:01:34 -0800
Message-ID: <199802051753.JAA09433@intergate.lasercom.net>
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I have heard that there is another glass list, called 'rag'.  I have tried
unsuccessfully to locate it.  Anyone know anything about it?

Jean
Jean@lasercom.net
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:04:52 1998
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From: Tracy Reitmann <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 12:06:07 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.667.0>
References: <<199802051105.FAA04472@eve.corp.ccti.net>>
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Lurker here ...trying to figure out why people are pinpointing "editing" 
techniques of certain people -- I read the e-mail here to learn about 
stained glass techniques and find it somewhat irritating (for lack of a 
better word) that I have to go through e-mail after e-mail after e-mail 
of what appears to be personal attacks (further more which have nothing 
to do at all with stained glass).  I hope that we can all get back to 
the real reason this e-mail list exists -- glass, not a Rodney 
Dangerfield Roasting hour.

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:08:41 1998
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From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 11:58:29 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.35829.0>
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Lone Tree Homeschool
Precedence: bulk

Robert E. Jones wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Philip McRae wrote:
> 
> > I have for the last six to eight months, filtered out Mike's messages.
> > There is no excuse for his being on the list, using his editing
> > principles.
> >
> > phil7
This is getting really OLD you guys, get over it, and
lets talk glass!
> 
> No spears just kudos.
> 
> Bob

Blessings;

Laurean



Eph. 4:32 "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one

another, Even as God in Christ forgave you". (NKJ) ><>
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:11:24 1998
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X-Path: mail.intel.com!lynice_spangler
From: "Spangler, Lynice" <lynice_spangler@mail.intel.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Petina
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:07:56 -0800 
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.2756.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I might be plated.  I've seen nickel plated projects that are shiny
silver - beautiful.  I think you have to take it somewhere that does
electroplating.

On Thursday, February 05, 1998 5:39 PM, Jean [SMTP:jean@lasercom.net]
wrote:
> 
>The patina is such a
> bright, clear, 'gold' finish I am wondering if there is a new patina
out
> somewhere that I am not familiar with?  
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:12:12 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Projects
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:23:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.52324.0>
References: <<199802050828.IAA26686@mx0.rmplc.co.uk>>
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Phil wrote:
> 
> Mike Savad wrote
> 
> >my editing is fine, i have no idea what people want,
> 
> what editing! ;-)
> 
> brevity Mike thats what we want
> 
> Phil
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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that's nice....why? your going to read it and delete it anyway. is it
becuase everyone has to scroll down a little, they don't want to move
they're hand a little bit? i don't see the point.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:16:46 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!TifStyOrig
From: TifStyOrig@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Petina
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:06:35 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.18635.0>
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<<  received a small St. Glass Christmas ornament from a friend who would
 like me to make here a couple dz for gifts next year.  The patina is such a
 bright, clear, 'gold' finish I am wondering if there is a new patina out
 somewhere that I am not familiar with?  The ornament has had no other
 treatment of any kind, simply soldered and patinad.   Any ideas?
  >>

This sounds like they may have been electroplated.  I saw many small Christmas
themed suncatchers in a local stained glass store - they were from the Orient,
and they had that bright 'gold' patina - electroplated.  Unless you choose to
electroplate, the brass patina - shined to a gleam with Simichrome polish -
may be a close enough match.

Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
Delray Beach, FL  
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:17:14 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: concrete editing suggestions 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:21:23 +0000
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>  It's a function of life in the 90s that everything has to be
> abbreviated and brief so we can cram everything into a day 

I'll2ndthat -- you have days like that, too? <g>

Albert

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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Last (I promise) word (from me)
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Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:21:23 +0000
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> Just my 0.02...... Flame away

I have nothing more to say, Len, and hope that my comments weren't 
seen as a flame, but a dispassionate explanation. I guess if one read 
them aloud with a passionate, even angry tone, they could be heard 
that way, evenso. In any case, I'm done with the subject, sorry I 
tried to explain ... was misunderstood anyway, which is a problem 
without body language, tone of voice, and facial expressions. <g>

Albert

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:17:52 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Bungi Digest Format Available?
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:15:08 -0800
Message-ID: <199802051807.KAA10166@intergate.lasercom.net>
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Question:  Is Bungi available in digest format?


----------
> From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: I Like Mike's Refusal to Edit 
> Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 8:27 AM



>.....but on the digest version, ............
.> Some of you may sit around all day and just read email, but for those of
us
> with limited time, I think a little courtesy is not too much to ask.
> 
> Garden of Glass
> Joyce Moran
> Ohio
> 
> 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:20:57 1998
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X-Path: tiac.net!phil7
From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:38:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.53841.0>
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I have for the last six to eight months, filtered out Mike's messages.
There is no excuse for his being on the list, using his editing
principles.

phil7
(I'll stand close to the monitor, absorbing all the electronic spears
that will soon be chucked at me.)



Albert Lewis wrote:

> > >my editing is fine, i have no idea what people want,
>
> Mike, despite your feeling that your editing is fine, it obviously
> isn't what the members of this group would prefer.  They would like
> for you to not repeat entire messages, appending your often very
> short comments to them.



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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:21:30 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: FW: E  Mail problems
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 11:54:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.65454.0>
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Nadine's Folly
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Gloria and George. . .
I have no problems with your messages. . .but I do get everything three
times!  Could it be because the bungi address appears three times in
reply to, to and to again?
                                          Regards,  Nadine

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:23:00 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Light Table
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:18:39 -0800
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> From: IreneMerm@aol.com

> ..... small light table that is easy to use and inexpensive to buy for
copying parts
> of patterns for suncatchers.  Hope these ideas help you find the patterns
that
> you want to do.  Sincerely, Irene Mermelstein
> ----
 
Irene, where did you purchase this 'small, inexpensive light table'?  Was
it recently?

Jean
Jean@lasercom.net
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:44:51 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Glasangels
From: Glasangels@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: editing, etc...
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:36:59 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb5.183659.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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In a message dated 98-02-04 11:48:49 EST, you write:

<<  However I did not join to see bashing going on.  So
 Mike doesn't edit in the same manner as everyone else.  He still is a
 generous contributor to this list!  I also realize there is a viable
 concern over ISP billing in England (I presume).  Does Mikes input in
 relation to  everyone elses cause the bill to go sky high?  I realize I
 may be taking on alot of heat here...And that's o.k.  Why don't we
 concentrate on why we are here...To learn from and help each other. >>

Thank you so much Laurean for expressing my sentiments so well.  Mike is a
very talented young man and has been very helpful and willing to share his
knowledge with everyone who asks, AND he doesn't waste his time bashing other
people's ideas and opinions. Mike.....you go guy.!!
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:44:52 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mike's Refusal to Edit
Date: Thu,  5 Feb 1998 13:28:28, -0500
Message-ID: <199802051828.NAB19920@mime4.prodigy.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

The UK members seem to be ready to absorb the additional expense to 
them caused by your refusal to edit ... at least they've resigned 
themselves to it, given your obstinate refusal to be thoughtful and 
considerate ... the rest of us, more fortunate mostly for having 
flat-rate phone service, can opt for item one or two above.

Albert

It's not just the UK members that pay by the minute. More than a few 
of us in the USA pay by the minute and some of us get to pay business 
phone rates also. The expense is one thing but the waste can really 
grind.

When in a motor home it can be a real trial connecting through an 
acoustic coupler to a pay phone at 2400. The alternatives are REAL 
expensive. Please be considerate.

Bob
Bob 

____
Bob Duchesneau (Freeway's mother) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 
26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 10:45:26 1998
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From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Rag
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:29:27 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-05 13:04:54 EST, you write:

<< I have heard that there is another glass list, called 'rag'. >>

I would be very interested...pls. post here if url available. thanks
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 12:43:27 1998
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X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu
To:           glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:      veterinarians
Date:         Thu, 05 Feb 98 13:20:07 EST
Message-ID:   <980205.132221.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You might be able to find a doctor pattern that would work just as well
as a vet.
Dorothy (who has a mailer that makes editing a (5-letter word), so
rarely quotes, but who tries to be clear about her subjects, and who
likes Mike...oh, yeah, can't selectively get rid of sig file,
either.)

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 12:43:38 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Petina/Not plated
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:28:15 -0800
Message-ID: <199802051820.KAA10872@intergate.lasercom.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


No, it is definitely NOT plated. Plating has a different look to it, "more
commercial".

----------
> From: Spangler, Lynice <lynice_spangler@mail.intel.com>
>
> It might be plated.  I've seen nickel plated projects that are shiny
> silver - beautiful.  
----------------------------- 
> >From Jean:jean@lasercom.net]
> > 
> >The patina is such a
> > bright, clear, 'gold' finish I am wondering if there is a new patina
> out that I am not familiar with?  

----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 13:28:18 1998
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: Shirley's Amazing Essay!
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:18:11 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19980205130337.2ce7b6fe@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have a cat who lives at the studio, walks where ever she pleases... never
seems to have any problems.... I do sometimes... as when she decided the
best place to sleep was on the in progress Noah's Ark, and disarranged all
the pieces every night... Meg

At 08:27 PM 2/2/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Wow Shirley! Your essay on storage and show displays was great! I am very
>impressed.
>
>I have a question for those of you with pet cats...Do you let your cat into
>your workspace? My cat tries desperately to come in and I always try to
>keep her out, as I am afraid that she'll get glass in her paws. Am I
>worrying too much...do cats know better than to walk on bits of glass?
>
>Sarah
>
>
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
 REMEMBER: "Bats bite bugs best!"
    =BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?
  Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace
               apdo. 24-5655
       Monteverde, Puntarenas
               COSTA RICA
              phone 645 5052

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 13:34:03 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Rag
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:36:25 +0000
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> << I have heard that there is another glass list, called 'rag'. >>

I heard about it yesterday,  but the name given to me was "rags." I 
was guessing that it's "Retailers and Glass Studios," but I'm not 
sure about that.

Albert

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  5 13:46:58 1998
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X-Path: dlr
From: dlr@bungi.com (Dave Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: ENOUGH!
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:57:54 PST
Message-ID: <m0y0XQo-00005tC@daver.bungi.com>
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We've had enough.

I've disabled the glass alias for the time being.  Once people
settle down, I'll consider turning it back on.

The stained glass list is not about flaming people, or talking
about editing, or discussing the weather.  We don't have time
to moderate it.  People *can* control themselves.  Honest.
We are all (I believe) over the age of 8.  Let's act like
it.

Dave Rand / Glenna Rand
+1 408 254-7111

-- 
Dave Rand
dlr@bungi.com
http://www.bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 09:30:29 1998
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X-Path: dlr
From: dlr@bungi.com (Dave Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Important: glass list news
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:08:58 PST
Message-ID: <m0y1DkR-0000OGC@daver.bungi.com>
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The stained glass list at bungi.com has been reopened.  There have been
some technical changes as well.

As a reminder to all, the stained glass list is intended to be a resource
that people can use to discuss issues related to glass work.  It is not for
discussing the personal habits of people, or their probably parentage.  We
*do not* want to moderate this list.  We feel that people should have the
ability to express their ideas openly.

Please; this list goes to over 400 people, all around the world.  There
*will* be differences of opinion.  If so, please take it offline.  To that
end, I have made a technical change in how the list works.  Before, replying
would automatically send to the stained glass list.  Now, replying will send
the message back only to the originator.  If your reply is meant for the
list as well, you will need to change the To: address to glass@bungi.com.

Hopefully, this minor change will both help avoid the recent flame-fests,
and help people stay in a positive frame of mind.

Let us know if you have any questions.

Dave & Glenna Rand

-- 
Dave Rand
dlr@bungi.com
http://www.bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 10:32:09 1998
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X-Path: yahoo.com!sheila_oh
From: Sheila <sheila_oh@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Important: glass list news
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:11:24 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.21124.0>
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Let me say a big "THANK YOU" for reopening!!!!!!  The "shakes" were
starting to set in here!  Man I never knew withdrawal to be so tuff!

Sheila
OhiO






_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 11:03:59 1998
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From: pkelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Penguin Suncatcher
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 17:07:44 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.11744.0>
Precedence: bulk

Can't remember who asked for the penguin suncatcher. I have found a
couple. Contact me off-line or with the group and I'll explain further.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows to all

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 11:23:44 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Favorate wholesalers
Date: Sat,  7 Feb 1998 13:20:34, -0500
Message-ID: <199802071820.NAA22076@mime4.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

 Karen Schroeder writes in part:
> I just started a business last October - Hummingbird Designs. Went 

> through the whole business license, seller's permit, DBA dance. But 

> it 
> was worth it. I have accounts at two semi-local wholesalers 
> (Franciscan 
> Glass in Mountain View and Bendheim West in Oakland) where I 
purchase 
> all 
> of my glass and one mail-order wholesaler (Art Glass House in 
> Florida) 
> where I purchase just about everything except glass.
> 
> Karen- welcome to the group that pays homage to the CA Board of 
> Equilazation. I recommend that you check out Mad Dog Stained Glass 
at 
> 818 782-1514. They are in Van Nuys, CA and so you should save a 
> considerable amount of time and shipping costs by dealing with them.
 
> I have been very pleased with their service and consistant 
> availability of cataloged items. For general SG supplies they are 
> tops in my book.  If I order before 2:00 PM I get my goodies the 
> following morning by UPS. Go- Mad Dog!!!
> Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow 
Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 11:34:17 1998
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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: bungi reborn
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 11:03:22 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.3322.0>
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short and sweet,
	Thank you Dave for first turning off bungi, despite your preference for 
non interference, as I think that people will be more "sane" after this, 
and that the adjustment to the format will help this, and thank you for 
turning bungi back on, as I do think it CAN be an excellent forum.
Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 12:09:48 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Important: glass list news
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 14:52:42 +0000
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> Let me say a big "THANK YOU" for reopening!!!!!!  The "shakes" were
> starting to set in here!  Man I never knew withdrawal to be so 
tuff!

Yes, indeedy ... it's good to have bungi back!

Albert

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 12:43:26 1998
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X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Bonnie Clark
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 14:45:20 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980207144517.0076fcf4@mail.bright.net>
Precedence: bulk

I'm sad to post the news that one of our members, Bonnie Clark "Fishbait"
passed away Saturday, of unknown causes.  She and I met during the Glass
Atlas time period a year ago, and developed a great friendship over the
year that we corresponded online.  I hope that she makes it to "stained
glass" heaven and keeps on solderin'.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
Ohio

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 13:05:43 1998
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X-Path: cybercable.tm.fr!amenil
From: Alain Ménil <amenil@cybercable.tm.fr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: german glass?
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 20:59:29 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.215929.0>
Organization: Le Mans
Precedence: bulk

Is there someone who wants to discuss about popular (18th&early
19th)german glass? if yes, please look at this page, you could see an
example of enameled bottles I collect :
http://www.glass.co.nz/club.htm.
If no please continue to discuss about staines glass, this forum is a
very exciting one.
-- 
Alain from France
mailto : amenil@cybercable.tm.fr
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 13:13:15 1998
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
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Subject: Re: bungi reborn
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 98 15:43:17 -0500
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Dave,

Thanks for re-installing! I too was suffering severe withdrawal. I didn't 
realize how much an important part of my life was the bungi line.

Thanks for making this line available to us passionate glassaholics!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 13:32:59 1998
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From: "The Banker's House" <bankers@ictc.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Panel = Opening
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 14:53:12 -0600
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980207145312.00796250@ictc.com>
Precedence: bulk

Question:

In constructing panels to fit an opening, I always seem to just miss the
mark.  I measure, re-measure, then usually measure again, but something
(bad luck?) always seems to make the panel just a hair to big for the
opening!  Does this happen to anyone else?  What are some tricks or
techniques in dealing with this once it happens?  Did I just miss 'the
boat' on how to avoid this situation?  Any input or advice is appreciated.

Thank you, Dale Bentley

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 13:36:38 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!karen.moyer
From: karen.moyer@juno.com (Karen L. Moyer)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: bandsaws
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:05:32 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.5532.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi. I am new to this group and so far have just been lurking. I really
appreciate all the new ideas and info I have learned so far.  I  have
finally save enough pennies to buy a bandsaw. I would really appreciate
any advice I can get. My pennies do not add up to a top of the line saw
but somewhere in the moderate range. I have been looking at catalogs and
it  has been pretty confusing. The one I like the most is the Gryphon
C40.  It has a large work surface which seems like a nice feature. What
do you think?
       Thanks in advance.     Karen

_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 13:57:25 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu
From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: lamps
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:34:44 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.213444.0>
Precedence: bulk

Is there a simple formula or method that determines the appropriate size lamp
shade to make for an 8 1/2 " lamp base.  I would be using the Worden System so
would also appreciate any suggestions for the design/pattern.  It would be my
first time using Worden.  I have not been able to identify the name of the
base but it is finished in bronze.  The bottom is scalloped 6 times and I
think roses are in 3 of the scallops.

Lu Ann (Whispy Blu@aol.com)
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 14:47:51 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 16:52:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.115216.0>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19980207145312.00796250@ictc.com>>
Precedence: bulk

The Banker's House wrote:
> 
> Question:
> 
> In constructing panels to fit an opening, I always seem to just miss the
> mark.  I measure, re-measure, then usually measure again, but something
> (bad luck?) always seems to make the panel just a hair to big for the
> opening!  Does this happen to anyone else?  What are some tricks or
> techniques in dealing with this once it happens?  Did I just miss 'the
> boat' on how to avoid this situation?  Any input or advice is appreciated.
> 
> Thank you, Dale Bentley
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well, it could be that the wall is not plumb. it may bow outward where
the panel is. or the foil thickness could be affecting the size of it. i
would (next time), make the whole panel an 1/8-1/4" smaller (all the way
around, not subtracted from all sides... so a 24" panel would be 23-3/4"
this would give you some extra slack to work with. then use some sort of
molding to hide the difference.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 15:04:33 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: "Karen L. Moyer" <karen.moyer@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bandsaws
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 16:54:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.115433.0>
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Precedence: bulk

Karen L. Moyer wrote:
> 
> Hi. I am new to this group and so far have just been lurking. I really
> appreciate all the new ideas and info I have learned so far.  I  have
> finally save enough pennies to buy a bandsaw. I would really appreciate
> any advice I can get. My pennies do not add up to a top of the line saw
> but somewhere in the moderate range. I have been looking at catalogs and
> it  has been pretty confusing. The one I like the most is the Gryphon
> C40.  It has a large work surface which seems like a nice feature. What
> do you think?
>        Thanks in advance.     Karen
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________

i would recommend the Taurus 2 RingSaw. so far it's the best thing i've
used. you can cut in any direction, pretty quickly. it holds alot of
water at once, and the water does'nt pool up on the glass as much. for
the money, it's definetly worth it.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 15:08:02 1998
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From: Individule <katglass@emwv.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: New glass software
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 17:01:15 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.9115.0>
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Hello All,

Just want to let anyone who might have missed it know that The Glass Eye
software has a new program. It is for the internet and comes with
25 patterns that apparantly can be edited to suit whatever size you
need.
They also have patterns to sell that can also be adjusted to suit.

I sat and waited for a month for this program to be up on the web and it
is. (It's free.) But alas, it requires Windows 95 and my computer is not
capable of running it. Let me know if it turns out to be as good as I
think.

It is located at http://www.dfly.com

Have fun,

Kathy
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 15:39:03 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: bandsaws
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:04:39 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.23439.0>
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In a message dated 98-02-07 16:36:57 EST, you write:

<< o buy a bandsaw. I would really appreciate
 any advice I can get. My pennies do not add up to a top of the line saw
 but somewhere in the moderate range. >>

Hi Karen - For a little more money you could get the Taurus.  The reason I
mention the Taurus is the work service is larger than the Gryphon.  With the
Gryphon you can only cut in one direction as opposed to the Taurus where you
can start cutting and go in any direction.  So far the only disadvantage I
have found with the Taurus is it cuts wider and therefore you cannot trace a
whole flower and cut it as the pieces will not fit properly when using copper
foil.  

Lu Ann (Whispy Blu@aol.com)
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 16:02:47 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:25:20 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.232520.0>
References: <<1998Feb7.115216.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk


Dale,
  In my message to you (address now lost) I assumed you were working
with lead came, so my reply may not make a lot of sense.  Secondly,
Mike's respons reminds me that I carry a plumb bob to check on the
verticality of the sides of the opening in addition to measuring top and
bottom, left and right and diagonals.
Moulding and/or other sealant is normally required to make an opening
weather tight and to keep the rattling of the panel to a minimum.
Steve
P.S.  I am amazed that most US workers seem to be in copper foil even
for large panels.  And that they seem to be secondary glazing most of
the time.  Have I got it wrong?
S.

In message <1998Feb7.115216.0@?>, "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net> writes
>The Banker's House wrote:
>> 
>> Question:
>> 
>> In constructing panels to fit an opening, I always seem to just miss the
>> mark.  I 
......
>always seems to make the panel just a hair to big for the
>> opening!  

.......
>(next time), make the whole panel an 1/8-1/4" smaller (all the way
>around, not subtracted from all sides... so a 24" panel would be 23-3/4"
>this would give you some extra slack to work with. then use some sort of
>molding to hide the difference.
>
>---Mike Savad
>

-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 16:28:48 1998
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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Panel = Opening
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 15:29:36 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.72936.0>
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-----Original Message-----
From:	The Banker's House [SMTP:bankers@ictc.com]
Sent:	Saturday, February 07, 1998 12:53 PM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Panel = Opening
Question: In constructing panels to fit an opening, I always seem to just 
miss the mark.  I measure but something (bad luck?) always seems to make 
the panel just a hair to big for the opening!  Does this happen to anyone 
else?  What are some tricks or
techniques in dealing with this once it happens?
Thank you, Dale Bentley

There are a # of ways to achieve your goal. What I do is to make a template 
out of a stiff material (1/8 ply, matt board, cardboard). Try the template 
for a tight fit. I then place the template on my assembly/soldering table, 
nail 1/2" x 1/4" restrictor strips  tightly around the template, then add 
1/16 to 1/8" shim strips to give me the expansion/play space that I want 
and build the window tight to the spacer strip. This gives me an even space 
around the window with just the right spacing. I usually use thin strips of 
hard rubber or wood as shim to raise the window so that the space is even 
all around. I use a 1/4"-1/2" squirt form a silicone or glue gun at the 
tops and sides as easily removed retainers, NOT all around. or you or 
someone else will never get the window out if it needs repair! If you want 
more specific info E me direct.
Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 16:36:57 1998
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From: Pat Diacca Topp <diacca@tznet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: re:enameling lusters
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 15:07:01 -0600
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HI!  I wasn't successful in using the Carefree Lusters either.  That's why
I developed the Decals!  The only other way I used the lusters, was with
masking off and airbrushing.  But had to fire each color separately,
because masking would end up interferring with the luster already laid
down.  If you wish to try airbrushing, mix lusters with half and half,
cheap liquid hair spray and alcohol.  I used to use vaseline brushed onto
the surface of enamels, then dusting dry powdered enamel over the vasoline
area, then knocking off the excess.  Enough would stay on the vasoline
(which burns off clean) and the result was a kind of brushed enamel
painting technique.  You need to add 1/2 cake flour to the luster in order
to try sifting it, as the lusters don't sift well either.  For the beads,
you could try mixing lusters with hairspray and alcohol and using a fine
brush, then bringing the beads up to temperature to fuse the luster into
the surface.  Let me know how you make out.

Pat


At 08:16 AM 2/7/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I see you have detailed instructions on the use of carefree lusters and
>decal application and firing techniques.  I have the carefree lusters
>and haven't been too successful with them.  I would love to hear what
>you do with them!  I am a self taught enamelist who is now lampworking
>beads.  Thanks for your time!
>Carolyn Beardsley
>carolynb@oro.net
>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 16:55:09 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:26:38 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.232638.0>
References: <<1998Feb7.115216.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk


Dale,
  In my message to you (address now lost) I assumed you were working
with lead came, so my reply may not make a lot of sense.  Secondly,
Mike's respons reminds me that I carry a plumb bob to check on the
verticality of the sides of the opening in addition to measuring top and
bottom, left and right and diagonals.
Moulding and/or other sealant is normally required to make an opening
weather tight and to keep the rattling of the panel to a minimum.
Steve
P.S.  I am amazed that most US workers seem to be in copper foil even
for large panels.  And that they seem to be secondary glazing most of
the time.  Have I got it wrong?
S.

In message <1998Feb7.115216.0@?>, "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net> writes
>The Banker's House wrote:
>> 
>> Question:
>> 
>> In constructing panels to fit an opening, I always seem to just miss the
>> mark.  I 
......
>always seems to make the panel just a hair to big for the
>> opening!  

.......
>(next time), make the whole panel an 1/8-1/4" smaller (all the way
>around, not subtracted from all sides... so a 24" panel would be 23-3/4"
>this would give you some extra slack to work with. then use some sort of
>molding to hide the difference.
>
>---Mike Savad
>

-- 
Steve Richard
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 17:08:39 1998
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X-Path: nep.net!jnl
From: jnl <jnl@nep.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: fittting glass
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 18:55:25 -0500
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FITTING INTO AN EXISTING OPENING
(clipped from delphi glass site)
I am planning on making a sidelight window for our house 11 inches x 64
inches. Do I subtract 1/16 inch on all four sides or 1/32 inch on all
four sides? I'm having some trouble figuring out how to make the pattern
fit.

Is this measurement the actual size of the opening that the panel will
be installed into? If so, subtract 1/16 inch off each edge or basically
subtract 1/8 inch from both measurements (10 7/8 inches x 63 7/8
inches).

Before you start cutting out the glass for this panel, take a closer
look at the opening it will be installed into. Take lots of measurements
both
horizontally and vertically at the edges and through the middle. It is
not uncommon for an opening to have many different measurements; After
all, if the original window didn't fit into the opening, someone just
had to go back to the and either sand or route out problem areas until
it did
fit. 

How will you edge the window? Will you use a flat "U" channel,
adjustable "U" channel, an "H" channel? In lead, zinc, brass, or copper?
I
would personally recommend that you use a flat "H" lead; 3/8" and 1/4"
are common sizes. Adjust the measurements of the panel based on the
depth of the channel you select, measuring from the outside edge of the
came to the inside of the channel that the glass will be inserted into.
For instance, if the depth is 1/4", you will need to adjust all 4 sizes
by 1/4". The reason flat "H" lead is best is that not every window
opening is
exactly square. While installing the finished glass panel, you can trim
off the portion of the "H" channel that is in the way. When using the
hard metal cames the edge came would have to be removed, the glass
removed, recut or ground, refoiled or cemented, and the edge came
soldered back into place. 

Now, look at your different dimensions and adjust them accordingly, then
go back to your drawing board and adjust your panel. I would
suggest drawing in two lines, both horizontally and vertically, to
divide the design in half both ways. Divide the dimensions in half and
measure from the center lines to make a mark for where the design will
end. Draw in the final edge lines and your pattern will be ready for
glass
assembly.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 17:27:19 1998
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From: Zane Cimera <sigglass@nb.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 19:37:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.143734.0>
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The Banker's House wrote:
> 
> Question:
> 
> In constructing panels to fit an opening, I always seem to just miss the
> mark.

Try making a full scale cardboard template of the window.  Then keep
this template with a pattern drawn on it under your window as you
build.  You should know instantly if you are off and your window has
"grown".

This always works for us and keeps us profitable.  Nothing worse than
taking a window apart to grind it down some.

Zane
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 17:42:33 1998
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From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Dave Rand <dlr@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Important: glass list news
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:41:37 -0500
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Organization: Nadine's Folly
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Thank you, Dave. . .
. . .for bringing back the glass list!  I was surprised at how much I
missed it. And I'm looking forward to getting lots of good information.
                                                Nadine

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 18:22:03 1998
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X-Path: nh.ultranet.com!stacyf
From: stacyf@nh.ultranet.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: piano lamp bases
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 17:01:46 -0800
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Precedence: bulk

I once saw a lamp on QVC or somewhere that looks like the typical piano
lamp, that swivels horizontally. This particular lamp had stained glass for
the shade. It was breathtaking. But, I have looked and searched everywhere
and can not find anything like this lamp base anywhere. Anyone have any ideas?

                  Thanks!
                  Stacy 
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 18:48:33 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: WhispyBlu@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lamps
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 20:50:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.155010.0>
References: <<1998Feb7.213444.0>>
Precedence: bulk

WhispyBlu@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Is there a simple formula or method that determines the appropriate size lamp
> shade to make for an 8 1/2 " lamp base.  I would be using the Worden System so
> would also appreciate any suggestions for the design/pattern.  It would be my
> first time using Worden.  I have not been able to identify the name of the
> base but it is finished in bronze.  The bottom is scalloped 6 times and I
> think roses are in 3 of the scallops.
> 
> Lu Ann (Whispy Blu@aol.com)
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i found that the base of the -base, should be around half the diameter
of the shade. or at least that's what i determined when doing my lamp.
my lamps base is about 8" across. the shade is 14" wide. as for height,
that's mainly up to you, but not too tall or it may knock over.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 19:46:41 1998
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From: Hee Sun Stained Glass <jkeane@erols.com>
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I too must agree that a day without Bungi is not something that we want 
to have to endure again.........It's great to have Bungi back.....Thanks Dave!



Robert &  Jeanne Keane
Hee Sun Stained Glass 
"Bestow Pleasure"
 17 Main Street
Reisterstown, MD 21136	 
410-833-3007

jkeane@erols.com

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 20:14:42 1998
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From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lamps
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:51:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.165115.0>
References: <<1998Feb7.213444.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Lu Ann,

There are those who would tell you that there are formulas for such
things, but in truth there are too many variables.  The size shade that
will look right will change when the lamp is placed down low on an end
table as opposed to up high near eye level.  The diameter of the shade
required will vary depending on the depth of the design.  A shade 8" wide
could be 5" deep or 8" deep.  You may need to install a different harp
onto the base to accommodate a deeper or shallower shade.  One fairly
consistent rule is that when viewed as the lamp will be situated, you
should see the bottom edge of the shade fall about even with the top of
the base, (where the harp begins, just below the socket.)  

The best thing to do is work with cardboard mockups of the shade placed
on the base.  See how it looks where you intend to use it.  The same
shade that looks perfect in one place can completely hide the base and
look silly when viewed from a higher viewpoint.

Gary Dodge         Dodge Studio Designs                 
www.dodgestudio.com


On Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:34:44 EST WhispyBlu@aol.com writes:
>Is there a simple formula or method that determines the appropriate 
>size lamp
>shade to make for an 8 1/2 " lamp base.  I would be using the Worden 
>System so
>would also appreciate any suggestions for the design/pattern.  It 
>would be my
>first time using Worden.  I have not been able to identify the name of 
>the
>base but it is finished in bronze.  The bottom is scalloped 6 times 
>and I
>think roses are in 3 of the scallops.
>
>Lu Ann (Whispy Blu@aol.com)


_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 20:49:15 1998
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X-Path: sympatico.ca!KMunday
From: Kimberly M <KMunday@sympatico.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Patina
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:09:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.18912.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi, I have a question to ask that might be in line with what Jean is
talking about.  The brass foil and patinas, I have never worked with
these, and am concerned with how they will turn out.  I have heard that
they are difficult to work with.  I have also been told that if you are
not
careful, the brass turns to copper. Any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated.
P.S.  You sound like great people, who like myself, love glass.

Jean wrote:
> 
> I received a small St. Glass Christmas ornament from a friend who would
> like me to make here a couple dz for gifts next year.  The patina is such a
> bright, clear, 'gold' finish I am wondering if there is a new patina out
> somewhere that I am not familiar with?  The ornament has had no other
> treatment of any kind, simply soldered and patinad.   Any ideas?
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 21:19:40 1998
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Important: glass list news
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:32:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.18325.0>
References: <<m0y1DkR-0000OGC@daver.bungi.com>>
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for reopening the list. My husband was about to have to
hospitalize me for those pesky withdrawal symptoms!

Hilary
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 21:49:56 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu
From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: lamps
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:38:13 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.43813.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-07 23:15:08 EST, you write:

<<   One fairly
 consistent rule is that when viewed as the lamp will be situated, you
 should see the bottom edge of the shade fall about even with the top of
 the base, (where the harp begins, just below the socket.)  
 
 The best thing to do is work with cardboard mockups of the shade placed
 on the base.  See how it looks where you intend to use it.  The same
 shade that looks perfect in one place can completely hide the base and
 look silly when viewed from a higher viewpoint. >>

Thanks Gary for these tips.  I knew there were some general rules but as you
pointed out there could easily be exceptions.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 23:31:04 1998
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X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr
From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Your favorite 'green' art glass...
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 01:18:19 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.171819.0>
References: <<m0y0soT-0000bwC@daver.bungi.com>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island, NC, USA
Precedence: bulk

I'm wondering if I could please have everyone's input on what is their
absolute favorite green/green-blend art glass to use for tree leaves?
Pretty please, try to include in your reply WHY it's your favorite,
along with info like the manufaturer, mfr. stock number, and color-name,
okay? (This is my own little research to help me as I am developing a
couple of upcoming projects for this very old house that we just bought!
I'm SO excited--it still has most of the original hand-cast glass window
panes in it, and there are 32 windows!!)

Thank you very much in advance--
V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 23:50:39 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu
From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: e-mail address needed
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 01:18:07 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.6187.0>
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Charles, Marianne, or Stephanie I have a letter with questions I would like to
send but I cannot find an e-mail address for Warner-Crivellaro.  If you, or
anyone else on bungi could provide me with the e-mail address it would be
GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks!  Lu Ann (Whispy Blu@aol.com)
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  7 23:51:43 1998
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From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: not quite glass: Bonnie Clark<fishbait@televar>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 01:25:02 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.17252.0>
References: <<19980207.101242.13894.1.suzannewest1@juno.com>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island, NC, USA
Precedence: bulk

I just received this tonight and thought that there might be several
others besides Joyce & me who would like notification of the loss of our
friend and fellow glass-lover/artisan.

Please forgive the intrusion into bungi with this, but she was a member
and participant here.

Sandra S Semperger wrote:
> 
> To all of fishbait's  ( Bonnie Clarks ) friends
>   Bonnie died of complications of Diabetes, in Yakaima Washington at 7 AM
> on February 6 th. If you have questions please feel free to write me
> Sandra Semperger at suzannewest@juno.com or to Sylvia Rich at
> ladyrich@juno.com
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 00:08:42 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Specific to stained glass lead poisoning info
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 22:34:46 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.143446.0>
References: <<m0y0YBd-0000LpC@daver.bungi.com>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

> > Rita Gergely wrote:
> > > From the Iowa Dept. of Public Health
> > I wrote and asked them about lead poisoning and she wrote back today!
> > Her email is rgergely@fs.idph.state.ia.us
> > > You should DEFINITELY be concerned about the exposure to lead that
> > > you could be getting from soldering and handling lead--whether it is
> > > in your kitchen/living area or anywhere else.  You could be getting
> > > signicant exposure to lead.  Some of the major symptoms of lead
> > > exposure in adults are:
> > >
> > > trouble remembering and concentrating
> > > getting tired easily
> > > unable to sleep
> > > weakness or less of feeling in arms or legs
> > > headaches
> > > irritability
> > > depression
> > > high blood pressure
> > >
> > > The lungs are not usually damaged because lead is quickly absorbed
> > > into the blood stream from inhalation and does most of it's damage
> > > in the blood and the nervous system.  Since the symptoms I listed
> > > above are not unique to lead exposure, you could have a high level of
> > > lead in your body that is causing damage without noticing any of the
> > > symptoms I have listed above.
> > >
> > > There are several ways to measure your exposure to lead.  The
> > > first way is to get someone to do some air monitoring while you are
> > > doing the work to see how much lead is going into the air.  The only
> > > person really qualified to do this is a trained industrial hygienist,
> > > so this might not be practical.  The second way is to get a lead
> > > inspector to do some dust wipes to see how much lead is ending up on
> > > surfaces in your living area (example, floor).  Again, this is going
> > > to cost some money and, if you live in a home that has lead-based
> > > paint in it, it might be hard to tell if lead in the dust is coming
> > > from lead in the paint or lead from your soldering activities.  The
> > > third way to determine your exposure is to get a blood lead test.
> > > This will tell whether a significant amount of lead is getting into
> > > your body.  We recommend that adult males and adult females who do
> > > NOT plan to have children keep their blood lead levels less than 25
> > > micrograms per deciliter.  Adult females who DO plan to have children
> > > should keep their blood lead levels less than 10 micrograms per
> > > deciliter.  The level of concern is lower for these women because
> > > young children, including unborn children, are VERY sensitive to lead
> > > exposure and lead can cross the placenta from the mother to poison
> > > the child.  If you are doing much work with stained glass, I
> > > STRONGLY recommend that you get a blood lead test.
> > >
> > > People who work with lead solder/stained glass as an occupation are
> > > considered to be at very high risk for lead exposure and their
> > > employers must do a number of things to protect them.  They must
> > > provide Air Purifying Respirators, regular blood lead testing,
> > > protective clothing, an area to change clothes when leaving the
> > > workplace, and a place to shower and wash their hands and face
> > > before they go home at the end of the day.  In addition, the
> > > employers must ensure that there is no food, drink, or cigarettes in
> > > the work area and that employees leave the work area and wash their
> > > hands and face before eating, drinking, smoking, or applying
> > > cosmetics.  Employers must also do things to reduce lead fumes in
> > > the air such as very sophisticated ventilation systems and/or having
> > > the employees do the soldering under a hood.
> > >
> > > Bottom Line Recommendations for you:  If I were you, I would NOT do
> > > this work in my kitchen/living area.  Do you have a basement, porch,
> > > or other area where you could do this work?  You should get some
> > > blood lead testing to determine your current blood lead level.  You
> > > should go to an auto parts store and buy a HEPA or Air Purifying
> > > Respirator (sometimes, they are sold as "brake and clutch"
> > > respirators because are they worn when working with asbestos in
> > > brakes and clutches.  You should not be doing this work at all if
> > > you are pregnant.  You should not let children or other family
> > > members in the area where you are working.  If children or other
> > > family members have already been around when you are doing this
> > > work, they should all get blood lead tests.  You should make sure
> > > that there is no food, drink, or cigarettes in the work area and
> > > that you leave the work area and wash your hands and face before
> > > eating, drinking, smoking, or applying cosmetics.  You should take a
> > > shower and wash your hair before coming in contact with family
> > > members or friends.
> > >
> > > We have seen high blood lead levels (50 to 70 micrograms per
> > > deciliter) in stained glass workers, even where employers are making
> > > some efforts to protect them from lead exposure.  I realize that you
> > > are probably not spending as much time on this as someone who works
> > > in stained glass eight hours a day, but since you are probably not
> > > using any of the safety measures that employers do, you could be at
> > > just as much risk as someone who does this on the job eight hours a
> > > day.
> > >
> > > Please contact me by e-mail or phone if you have more questions.
> > >
> > > Rita Gergely, Director
> > > Lead Poisoning Prevention Programs
> > > 1-800-972-2026
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 00:18:01 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Shiny Patina
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 22:35:51 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.143551.0>
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Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Dave Rand wrote:

> > I don't know about the rest of you, but I use an old(and I mean old)
> > diaper to buff my work after cleaning with finnishing compound.
> > It is the best cloth I have tried so far.
>
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 03:21:09 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: e-mail address needed
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 05:29:33 +0000
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> Charles, Marianne, or Stephanie I have a letter with questions I would like to
> send but I cannot find an e-mail address for Warner-Crivellaro. 

It's in the Sources Guide, Lu Ann: warnerc@fast.net

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
Membership    http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm
Members' work http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm
Sources Guide http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm
Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 06:46:45 1998
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X-Path: flash.net!artglass
From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: window openings too small for panel
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 06:55:27 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb7.225527.0>
Organization: The Ivory Express
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
Thank you, Dave and Glena, for re-opening bungi.  I know it was missed
by all.

In response to the question of window openings being too small for
panel...my general rule of thumb (besides measuring all sides) is to use
1/4" H came lead on the perimeter of my panel.  I then measure and mark
an 1/8" all the way around my pattern.  I use a different color sharpie
so as to not get it mixed up with the rest of my pattern.  If my panel
is too large to fit in the opening (frustrating, but occasionally
happens)  I use a swedish file to take a little off  the outer edge of
the H came.  That particular kind of file very smoothly and evenly takes
off the lead where it is too large. I know this is clear as mud, but I
hope it helped a little.
Dianne

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 07:02:21 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Classydad
From: Classydad@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Fwd: Patina question
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:10:17 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.141017.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--part0_886947017_boundary
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Any suggestions?  Thanks.

--part0_886947017_boundary
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From: Classydad@aol.com
Return-path: <Classydad@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Patina question
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:05:04 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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I am just finishing a pool table light, about 14" x 42" and 18" high -- four
glass panels inserted within oak frame.  My biggest project yet, but
satisfying, with faceted jewels for accent.  My question is about patina.

I used black patina rubbing it on the lead beads over the foiled glass lines,
in other words not came. I did this after cleaning the glass panels with a
mixture of liquid dishwasher soap and baking soda to remove the flux from
soldering.  Anyway after rubbing the patina on with a cloth twice, I let it
sit for about 10 minutes and then rubbed off the extra patina with a rag.  The
next night I used a liquid stained glass polish, but after polishing the glass
and lead beads with a cloth, the black patina is more of a burnished gray
rather than a black-black.

Any suggestions on how to do this next time to achieve the blackest black
patina possible?

--part0_886947017_boundary--
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 09:21:09 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!IreneMerm
From: IreneMerm@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Here is the address that someone wanted for the light table that I use.  Irene

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From: IreneMerm@aol.com
Return-path: <IreneMerm@aol.com>
To: dlr@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Important: glass list news
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:25:55 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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Hi Guys,

I bought the light table through a rubber stamping catalog.  It is used
primarily for stencil work embossing.  The company's name was D.O.T.S. and the
catalog number was Z610.  The cost was $12.00.  It is about 6 inches by 10
inches approx.

The company is a division of Dot Adventures, Inc. P.O. Box 1077, Anerican
Fork, Utah, 84003.

I like the product very much and it is portable ( but must have an electric
source) and easy to use.  Hope this helps.  Irene

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 09:24:38 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Digest
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:14:24 -0800
Message-ID: <199802081610.IAA26420@intergate.lasercom.net>
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Is Bungi available in 'digest' format?

Jean
jean@lasercom.net
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 09:36:06 1998
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From: Sheila <sheila_oh@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: Bonnie Clark
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:16:48 -0800 (PST)
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I too am sadden by the death of Bonnie.  She is the one that
introduced me to the bungi list.  If ever I needed anything or had any
questions concerning glass she was always there.  I will miss her for
she made a believer out of me that "cyber friends" do exist.  She
shall be sadly missed but never forgotten by me.

Sheila
OhiO






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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 09:37:23 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Panel = Opening
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:20:23 -0500
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Message text written by Dale Bentley:
>In constructing panels to fit an opening, I always
seem to just miss the mark. ...  What are some tricks
or techniques in dealing with this once it happens?>

Yikes, I hate it when that happens.  Usually I frame
my panels in thin zinc.  I've found that you can shave
off some of the zinc , if the size difference isn't too
severe.  If you've got a real problem, unsolder the
zinc frame and install it using wooden molding to hold
the panel in place and tidy up the look of the window.

Tips on getting opening right in the first place:

If the opening is rectangular or square, double check
for square.  Most windows are not true square.  Measure
height and width at multiple points.  I always measure at
3 points.  For instance, if I am measuring the height of
a window, the left measurement can be at 15", the center
measurement at 15", and the right measurement can be
at 14 7/8".  So if you only measured at the center point,
and constructed the panel for 15", your right hand side
will not fit.

Along the same lines, double check for square.  By
this, I mean you measure not only the height and width
of the piece, but also measure from the upper left corner
down to the lower right, and the upper right down to the
lower left.  If they are equal, then the window is true square
and is not slanted on way or the other.  If they are different,
then the window is not plumb and your panel may not
fit if you constructed it straight and true.

Speaking for myself, I always subtract 1/4" off the window's
dimensions when laying out my pattern.  This gives me
some breathing room.  I can always add a zinc border or
wooden molding to finish off the join between stained
glass panel and the window frame.

For non-rectangular windows I always make a template,
since you can guarantee they will not be "standard".  One
I just completed is a half-round whose width is 67" and
height at center is 33 1/2", but whose radius from center
at 45 degrees was 33 1/2" and 135 degrees was 35".
Go figure!  : - )    So a template was absolutely necessary.

Hope some of this helps.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 09:47:51 1998
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From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject:  Dried Flowers-Fading
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:10:18 -0800
Message-ID: <199802081610.IAA26417@intergate.lasercom.net>
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 I made a few dried flower/bevel suncatchers a year or two ago.  Although
 none of them were hung in direct sun, all the flowers faded (REALLY
 faded!). I offered to redo them but I'm not sure how to fix it so that the
 same thing won't happen again.
 
 I remember hearing that spraying the flowers with hair spray would
prevent,
 or retard, the fading.  Does this work? Is there anything else that can be
 done?
 
 Jean
 
 jean@lasercom.net
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 09:48:45 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Your favorite 'green' art glass...
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 98 11:48:29 -0500
Message-ID: <199802081646.LAA14227@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

VT Phelps wrote:
>
>I'm wondering if I could please have everyone's input on what is their
>absolute favorite green/green-blend art glass to use for tree leaves?

Suzanne answers,

My favorites are some of the green/green blue/green yellow blends from 
Yough stipple. I pick the glass that looks best with the color flowers 
I'm using. There is such a mix right in the glass itself you really only 
need to use one of them to make the project come to life with the sun 
playing behind it. Try one, you'll like it!
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 09:51:34 1998
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: brass Patina
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:20:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.72027.0>
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Don't rub the antique brass patina too much or
it will brighten up to copper.  Just a quick brush or
rub of the patina over the solder line is enough.
Also, us a cloth or sponge for the liquid detergent
and hot water clean-up.  You don't want to scratch
or remove the patina.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 09:55:46 1998
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Subject: W-C e-mail address needed
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:20:30 -0500
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You can send Charles Warner an email at
charles@fast.net
or visit the W-C web site at
http://www.warner-criv.com
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 09:56:48 1998
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From: "Deepshikha Arora" <dshikhaa@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: beginner
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 09:37:05 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.17375.0>
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hi everyone
i am interested in stain glass painting.... i need advice on where i 
should begin from.... 
1. can anyone suggest a website for beginners where there are some 
simple projects that i could undertake
2. alternatively can anyone suggest how one should go about teaching 
oneself this craft

thanks
deepshikha

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 10:06:57 1998
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Your favorite 'green' art glass...
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:20:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.72034.0>
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Message text written by "NCScouter"
>I'm wondering if I could please have everyone's input on what is their
absolute favorite green/green-blend art glass to use for tree leaves?<

I love to use Spectrum #327-6s dark green swirled with white
for modern panels and lampshades.  My customers also
consistently choose this color more often than any other
green.  It's easy to work with, inexpensive, and is a nice
strong true dark green without any yellow or blue tones.

For more complex or dramatic work I like Youghiogheny #1431RG
which is a lovely smooth mottled medium green with yellow and
olive tones.  I like this for lampshades.  I also like Uroboros
#50-74 for special panels.  This is a very high texture ripple
two tone green glass which sparkles.  You have to be careful
or this glass will dominate a panel or lampshade.  Uroboros
#60-70 is also a nice smooth green with reddish streaks.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 10:24:14 1998
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Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:00:17 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-08 12:23:07 EST, you write:

<< I bought the light table through a rubber stamping catalog.  I >>

Does anyone know how this compares to the Morton lightbox?

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 10:42:21 1998
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From: Sheila <sheila_oh@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Shiny Patina
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:08:48 -0800 (PST)
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I too use clean (when I start) old diapers!  They seem to buff things
much nicer than an old towel.  

Keep Cutting!
Sheila
OhiO





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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 10:58:13 1998
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From: MJHiester@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:19:04 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-07 16:34:52 EST, you write:

<< always seems to make the panel just a hair to big for the
 opening!  Does this happen to anyone else?  What are some tricks or
 techniques in dealing with this once it happens?  >>
 
Dale,

I was taught, and have always used either 3/8 or 1/2 in.  H  lead came around
the perimeter.  If the panel is a hair large it is easy to shave  the lead
with a utility knife.  
It won't work if you use zinc or a  U  shaped came, so stick with the  H.
This is especially useful when the opening is not exactly square or the sides
bend in a bit  .   The other thing you might want to look at is which side of
the line are you finishing the panel to?  I know it sounds dumb, but you can
get  1/8  of an inch or more as a discrepancy in size by being on the wrong
side of the pencil line.

By the way,  I don't thonk I ever had a panel fit perfectly the first time
<g>.

Mike

mjhiester@aol.com (Mike Hiester)

 
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 11:41:30 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: beginner
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:15:42 +0000
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> i am interested in stain glass painting.... i need advice on where i 
> should begin from.... 
> 1. can anyone suggest a website for beginners where there are some 
> simple projects that i could undertake
> 2. alternatively can anyone suggest how one should go about teaching 
> oneself this craft

How about "Creative Glass Techniques: Fusing, Painting, Lampwork," by 
Bettina Eberle. It was published last year to rather good reviews.

Albert

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 12:03:56 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
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> Thanks Albert!  I spent over an hour looking through all of my paperwork for
> it and obviously I didn't find.  What is this Source Guide?  You have
> mentioned it before and I just never asked about it.

Lu Ann, it started out as the annual Sources Guide published for 
members of the Guild, but it was put up on the web last year (or the 
year before ... I forgete) to be accessible by everyone. It's updated 
almost every day; you might find it helpful. The URL for it is below 
my name.

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
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Sources Guide http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm
Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 12:10:45 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!karen.moyer
From: karen.moyer@juno.com (Karen L. Moyer)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: band saws
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:38:53 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.33853.0>
References: <<01BD33DE.5BD6C500@gspicer>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Glenn. Thank you for your reply. The band saw was recommended by a
friend who also works with glass. I do mostly Tiffany style lamps and
some panels. Lots of pieces with sharp angles and curves. The method I am
using now , scoring and snapping , leaves quite a bit to be ground off. I
thought the saw would cut down my time. Do you think I don't need a band
saw?  A lot of replies recommend the Taurus. I am going to look into
that.
      Karen

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 12:30:41 1998
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Subject:      Re: piano lamp bases
Date:         Sun, 08 Feb 98 14:24:14 EST
Message-ID:   <980208.142657.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19980207170146.006adfa0@nh.ultranet.com>>
Precedence: bulk

 I don't think I know what a piano lamp is...is it the same as a
banker's lamp.  If it is, you can buy a banker's lamp and replace
the green glass shade it came with.  Hard part...unwiring and rewiring
and getting the screw holes lined up.  Also keep and reuse the
rubber gaskets in the shade holes.
Dorothy

--
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UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 12:30:59 1998
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From: Sue Reitmann <oddjob@scc.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Favorite Green
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:18:55 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.71855.0>
Precedence: bulk

Of course it would depend on the other colors being used but I find the =
best all around, at least my favorite, green to be Bullseye # 2212. It =
has a slight hint of gold fleck to it that helps catch the light, and it =
is not completely flat like a Spectrum or Armstrong. It has just a hint =
of texture to it. A little more "spendy "however than Spec. or =
Armstrong.
Sue Reitmann

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From: suzannewest@juno.com
To: ncscoutr@beachaccess.com
Subject: Re: not quite glass: Bonnie Clark<fishbait@televar>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:02:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.5257.0>
References: <<m0y1a3R-0000E1C@daver.bungi.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Reply to your note
I think it was complications of Sugar Diabetes.  Bonnie thought it was
just a cold that she couldn't shake or the flu. She didn't even tell her
older daughter that she was sick. She kept on her usual schedule, even
when her skin and the whites of her eyes turned yellow.  We told her to
see a doctor but she wouldn't  until she passed out. Thay gave her 17
pints of blood and her body kept destroying the red blood cells. She was
only in the hospital two or three days. She thought Thursday night she
would be fine, with a nights rest, so she sent her family home. None of
them expected death and were not with her when it came.
   The funeral is scheduled for next  Friday at 2 PM in Ellensburg Wash.
The address is 301 E. 3rd    Ellensburg.    If you wish further details
write me at suzannewest@juno.com   Thank you for your interest.   Sandra
S.
On Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:00:45 -0800 "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
writes:
>Sandra S. and Sylvia R.,
>
>I appreciate your taking the time to let me know of the loss of
>our friend and fellow glass-lover/artisan. I shall miss her a 
>GREAT deal on ICQ... She was a lovely source of helpful advice,
>suggestions, and anecdotes for me regarding stained glass! Please 
>will you send information to me on where to send cards, etc. 
>expressing my sympathies to her family over their loss if you 
>don't mind too much?
>
>I am also including a copy of a message sent to me from one of
>the moderators of the bungi stained glass mailing list named
>Glenna Rand. I hope you don't mind, but I thought that you might
>like to know that there were many lives touched by Bonnie through
>that list, (there are 400 subscribers to it.)
>
>Thank you again so very much and I hope to hear from you soon!
>
>Respectfully yours,
>Valerie Tydings Phelps
>Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
>PO Box 361
>1147 E R Daniels Rd.
>Wanchese, NC  27981-0361
>
>Glenna Rand wrote:
>
>> It's too bad she passed away,...what kind of
>> complications?  I wasn't aware she was ill.
>> Did you know her personally?  Did she have any young children?
>> Heartfelt sorrow from us.
>> 
>> --
>> Glenna Rand
>> gjr@bungi.com
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 14:10:00 1998
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From: jnl <jnl@nep.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: band saws?
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:21:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.112125.0>
References: <<1998Feb8.33853.0>>
Precedence: bulk

My husband has a bandsaw for woodcutting, can I use the same saw with a
different blade? What type should I choose?

Lisa
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 14:41:13 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Made in USA
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:18:06 +0000
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> had recieved more that 1.000 written comments, with the mojority "strongly
> supporting" retention of the "all or virtually all" standard.

Certainly it's not redundant, Mary. I didn't have anywhere *near as 
much information as you've provided. I wonder, though, what the 
actual percentage is, since "all or virtually all" is kinda vague.

Albert

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 15:08:59 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: band saws?
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:25:34 -0500
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jnl wrote:
> 
> My husband has a bandsaw for woodcutting, can I use the same saw with a
> different blade? What type should I choose?
> 
> Lisa
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

no only a glass bandsaw can be used to cut glass. the blade has to be
wet to keep dust down (there should'nt be any dust actually), and to
keep the blade cool. keep the wood for wood, glass for glass. inland has
one that can be setup for both, but it was designed to do that.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 15:41:41 1998
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X-Path: sympatico.ca!KMunday
From: Kimberly M <KMunday@sympatico.ca>
To: WhispyBlu@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: e-mail address needed
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 18:21:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.132146.0>
References: <<1998Feb8.6187.0>>
Precedence: bulk

WhispyBlu@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Charles, Marianne, or Stephanie I have a letter with questions I would like to
> send but I cannot find an e-mail address for Warner-Crivellaro.  If you, or
> anyone else on bungi could provide me with the e-mail address it would be
> GREATLY appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!  Lu Ann (Whispy Blu@aol.com)
> ----
>Hi, Their e-mail is  warnerc@fast.net.  I went to their site and checked. 
Kim
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 16:15:50 1998
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X-Path: lobo.net!exotic
From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:39:36 +0000
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I just recently did the same thing. Ended up just a little bit over the window 
frame and spent hours resizing the frame. ( I was lucky in that I could do 
that)

What I discovered it that I have measured the glass, and didn't include the 
width of the foil and copper strengthening strips I put in the panel. for the 
next one (for the same door) will be calculated with the rebar, foil etc inthe 
calculation




On  7 Feb 98, The Banker's House wrote:

> Question:
> 
> In constructing panels to fit an opening, I always seem to just miss the
> mark.  I measure, re-measure, then usually measure again, but something
> (bad luck?) always seems to make the panel just a hair to big for the
> opening!  Does this happen to anyone else?  What are some tricks or
> techniques in dealing with this once it happens?  Did I just miss 'the
> boat' on how to avoid this situation?  Any input or advice is appreciated.
> 
> Thank you, Dale Bentley
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
Blessed Be

Myrddn
There is always time to reflect in the mirror, 
Never enough time to reflect in the mind




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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 16:45:27 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Your favorite 'green' art glass...
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:11:22 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.81122.0>
Precedence: bulk

The green you use may be dictated by the background (12" sculpt
chestnut?)....if you go to a blue background, green with some blue hints
will tie it together.

Brown-gold background, perhaps a green-yellow will work.
Hard to hit it perfect........of all the lamps I have done, many could be
done as well just using different colors to soften each other and tie them
together.
I did a poppy with red/orange flowers, hint of orange in the leaves where
they touched the flowers, and the background have some of both red (pale)
and a hint of green....while primarily being blue to purple....with just
spots of tie-in colors.

Get enough glass to be able to be selective and do not be afraid to "scrap"
some areas of the sheet!

After all the time it will take and the dollars, you will be VERY critical
of what you should have done differently and it may haunt you every time you
see the shade.

enjoy, H



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  8 18:45:31 1998
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X-Path: mia.net!craftclub
From: craftclub@mia.net
To: craftclub@mia.net
Subject: Let Us Help You Sell Your Handiwork
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <m0y1hLY-0000E6C@daver.bungi.com>
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///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If this message has reached you by mistake, please accept our apology. Your name was carefully selected in a search of those who are interested in handicrafts. This is not a "junk" mailing.If you wish to be removed please reply in the subject with "Remove" and you will automatically 
be eliminated from future mailings.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:46:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1325158894-1510150@mail.mia.net>

Hello Fellow Crafters!

We have created a program we call Crafters Corner. It is based on a 25% commission basis. We provide the page(s) for your specialties and products, along with a secured server order form/feedback form. (There is no charge for the page(s) or hosting.) This includes the ability to take credit cards w/no points or fees per transaction. Our site is dedicated to the Arts, Crafts, Collectibles, Antiques & Hobby Field. We promote our site to over 350+ search engines along with all of our patrons and we bring the traffic to you! We also offer a Craft Club that includes classifieds, free drawings and contests and much more!

Also, starting February 10th we will be sponsoring a virtual, on-line "Treasure Hunt". Participants have the opportunity to enter many various drawings for prizes. This will bring in added traffic to the site and each patron. 

If you are interested in more info please contact us at: mailto:craftclub@mia.net and / or view our mirror site at: http://www.mia.net/craftclub

Thank You for your attention and consideration!

Sincerely,
Jeny
CraftCluc<tm>



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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 01:10:31 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: using H came for window borders
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:49:20 -0800
Message-ID: <199802090549.VAA20366@norm.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

I too am glad that Dave turned bungi back on.  I'm also glad that we can see
the sender's name on our in mail list. It's something I've long wished we
could have, so I can more easily get a flavour of who's on bungi, and
associate it with a name. 

So, I really like the concept of being able to trim lead to fit, but here's
my question...if the entire weight of the panel is sitting on the H of the
bottom came, won't the outer part of the H collapse affecting the vertical
fit of the panel (and make it too short)?? Those lead fins don't seem to
have much strength.

Also, it seems to me that over time the weight of the panel might cause the
H came to stretch around the location of the plastic installation clips that
work so well with zinc borders. Comments???

Also, does anyone have any comments on the look of lead came borders on a
copper foil panel...over time I think it might look odd as the lead will
take on a darker colour.

As you can tell, I'm a strong devotee of zinc came borders since they also
add to the strength of the panel, as well as simplifying installation.  

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

(who dreads the idea of having to bring her 'hacker carpentry' skills to
stained glass installation).  Chickens and oysters don't mind looking at my
woodworking, but I think homeowners might.

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 01:27:35 1998
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X-Path: epix.net!age49
From: age49@epix.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: band saws?
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 21:45:52 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.164552.0>
References: <<1998Feb8.122534.0>>
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> j
> no only a glass bandsaw can be used to cut glass. 

Wouldn't a scroll saw do just fine for glass?

Dan
>
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 01:27:41 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!75054.2542
From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: no silica in glass
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:40:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.174018.0>
Precedence: bulk



My post titled "Re: (Fwd) Blood Tests" on Feb  6, 10:03, Monona 
Rossol writes  was returned by Dave Rand saying the list was disabled.  I'm  
trying it again.  It was a response to the following forwarded message:
 
 > > You don't have silica exposures in stained glass normally.  Glass is a
 > > silicate and doesn't cause silicosis.  
 > 
 > Please please tell me this also goes for those of us who use our
 > grinders as our second glass cutter.
 

 WHOA!  True, there is no silica, but there is a much bigger problem!  
 Colored glasses contain almost every toxic metal known to man in a 
 form that is leachable (bioavailable) when the glass is ground fine.   
lass > contains:
 
 * Arsenic -- used to make off-white opaque swirls and also used in the 
 processing of many types of stained glass;
 
 * cadmium -- used in opaque bright yellow and in some types of reds;
 
 * lead pigments -- including highly toxic lead chromate (another 
 yellow); 
 
 * manganese -- a purple/brown color;
 
 * cobalt, chrome, antimony, barium, selenium, and occasionally a little 
 touch of uranium from some dichroic glass (the amount of uranium is 
 probably too  small to be very important) may be present in this dust.  
 
 * and on and on and on.  
 
 Dust from grinders is highly toxic and needs to be exhausted and carefully 
 cleaned up. 
 
 ANd the wet grinders and polishers can be as bad.  They make a fine mist 
 containing the finest glass particles.  Soon you notice a whitish dust 
 ground the area when this mist dries.
 
 Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
 Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
 181 Thompson St., # 23
 New York, NY 10012-2586   212/777-0062
 
 http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 01:27:43 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4
From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: bankers@ictc.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:40:57 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.44057.0>
Precedence: bulk

When measuring a window opening you should check the square of the window and
also measure the opening in more than one place from side to side and top to
bottom. You should also always drop a 1/16 off all the way around to allow for
the expansion and contraction of the surrounding frame ,probably wooden, and
as suggested before keep your window when being built within the confines of
the pattern, this is very important. I always start my windows by constructing
the frame first then build within it and open it up at one end or side for the
final pieces of glass to be put in place.And again if a window is really out
of square or an unusual shape a cardboard pattern of the opening is the best
way to go.We all learn the hard way hang in there, it's worth the trip.
Beveler4aol.com (Stan)
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 01:28:08 1998
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X-Path: mia.net!craftclub
From: craftclub@mia.net
To: craftclub@mia.net
Subject: Let Us Help You Sell Your Handiwork
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <m0y1hLY-0000E6C@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If this message has reached you by mistake, please accept our apology. Your name was carefully selected in a search of those who are interested in handicrafts. This is not a "junk" mailing.If you wish to be removed please reply in the subject with "Remove" and you will automatically 
be eliminated from future mailings.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:46:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1325158894-1510150@mail.mia.net>

Hello Fellow Crafters!

We have created a program we call Crafters Corner. It is based on a 25% commission basis. We provide the page(s) for your specialties and products, along with a secured server order form/feedback form. (There is no charge for the page(s) or hosting.) This includes the ability to take credit cards w/no points or fees per transaction. Our site is dedicated to the Arts, Crafts, Collectibles, Antiques & Hobby Field. We promote our site to over 350+ search engines along with all of our patrons and we bring the traffic to you! We also offer a Craft Club that includes classifieds, free drawings and contests and much more!

Also, starting February 10th we will be sponsoring a virtual, on-line "Treasure Hunt". Participants have the opportunity to enter many various drawings for prizes. This will bring in added traffic to the site and each patron. 

If you are interested in more info please contact us at: mailto:craftclub@mia.net and / or view our mirror site at: http://www.mia.net/craftclub

Thank You for your attention and consideration!

Sincerely,
Jeny
CraftCluc<tm>



----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 01:28:41 1998
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From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: More lead
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:40:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb8.17408.0>
Precedence: bulk



> > > Rita Gergely, Director
> > > Lead Poisoning Prevention Programs
> > > 1-800-972-2026

This was an EXCELLENT post from Rita Gergely.  I hope all bungi people will 
print it out and keep a copy.  I would only add a couple of comments.

> > > Bottom Line Recommendations for you:  If I were you, I would NOT do
> > > this work in my kitchen/living area.  Do you have a basement, porch,
> > > or other area where you could do this work? <

I really think the craft belongs out of the house all together.  
Lead is released in a fume form during soldering.  These invisible tiny 
particles can stay airborne for hours.  They will go anywhere air currents 
take them.  This means the whole house can be contaminated.   And once the 
stuff settles it can get tracked everywhere.

> >>  You should get some
> > > blood lead testing to determine your current blood lead level. <

You just can't say this often enough.  And it is important to get the blood 
lead while you are working regularly at the craft.  When you wait a couple of 
weeks, the blood lead drops because the lead is partly deposited in bones and 
tissues.  

> > > You
> > > should go to an auto parts store and buy a HEPA or Air Purifying
> > > Respirator (sometimes, they are sold as "brake and clutch"
> > > respirators because are they worn when working with asbestos in
> > > brakes and clutches. <

I wouldn't recommend doing this.  I suggest you call a real safety 
equipment supplier like Lab Safety if you want a secure source and good 
technical advice.  Their technical number is 800/356-2501.

Also the filter  and cartridge certifications for particulates will all be 
different as of July 1998. HEPAs come in a number of varieties now and you 
want to be sure you are getting the top grade of HEPA now.  It is now called 
the P100.   And they are not as cheap, sorry.   l

Also, not everyone should wear a respirator.  The OSHA regs require:

1.  A medical check--people with lung, heart, or certain other physical 
problems can make them worse by wearing a respirator which adds a lot of 
breathing stress.  Some doctors don't want pregnant patients wearing them 
under certain conditions either.

2.  A fit test--the respirators are designed to fit the majority of the 
market which just happens to be male, Caucasian faces.  Some people can't 
find any respirators that will really fit and then they are just fooling 
themselves.  But individuals usually can't get a professional fit test.  It 
involves putting you in an kind of enclosure with a contaminant that has an 
odor or taste and then you do a series of movement and maneuvers to see if it 
leaks when you move.

3.  Formal training--to know how to don, doff and fit check (blocking the 
exhalation valve with your hand and blowing out, etc...), how to clean and 
store them, know when to change the cartridge, etc.  


>>> You should not be doing this work at all if
> > > you are pregnant.<

You probably should stop way before you are pregnant when you just have a 
glint in your eye!  We now know that lead previously stored in the bones is 
released to the fetus during pregnancy.  Best to keep lead levels as low as 
possible if you plan to be pregnant.   I would add to the blood lead data 
with the following quote from a Report to Congress on Worker's Home 
Contamination (DHHS(NIOSH) Pub No. 95-123). p. 13:

"Evidence also indicates that children exposed in utero are at increased risk 
for adverse neurobehavioral and growth effects if their mothers' BLL is as 
low as 8ug/dL and the umbilical cord BLL at birth is greater than about 6 
ug/dL."

I suggest that young women start right out using the lead-free solders.  They 
require a little more skill than the more forgiving lead solders, but they 
are worth the effort.   


>  You should not let children or other family
> > > members in the area where you are working.  If children or other
> > > family members have already been around when you are doing this
> > > work, they should all get blood lead tests.<


The area must be off limits to children even when you are not working since 
there will be some dust and contamination in that area.

Again, this was a wonderful post.  


Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
Arts, Craft and Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York, NY 10012-2586   212/777-0052

http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 04:59:11 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: using H came for window borders
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:22:46 -0600
Message-ID: <199802091209.GAA09830@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Precedence: bulk


I think you have pretty much answered your own questions Carol.

If you do not finish your installation with wood/metal stops then the
considerations you have discussed will certainly apply.

A person capable of fabricating a SG panel should be more then able to
measure and cut some finish trim with a little effort.

It makes for a more finished, professional installation.

Len


>So, I really like the concept of being able to trim lead to fit, but here's
>my question...if the entire weight of the panel is sitting on the H of the
>bottom came, won't the outer part of the H collapse affecting the vertical
>fit of the panel (and make it too short)?? Those lead fins don't seem to
>have much strength.
>
>Also, it seems to me that over time the weight of the panel might cause the
>H came to stretch around the location of the plastic installation clips
that
>work so well with zinc borders. Comments???
>
>Also, does anyone have any comments on the look of lead came borders on a
>copper foil panel...over time I think it might look odd as the lead will
>take on a darker colour.
>
>As you can tell, I'm a strong devotee of zinc came borders since they also
>add to the strength of the panel, as well as simplifying installation.
>
>Carol Swann
>Synergy Glass & Creative
>
>(who dreads the idea of having to bring her 'hacker carpentry' skills to
>stained glass installation).  Chickens and oysters don't mind looking at my
>woodworking, but I think homeowners might.
>
>----
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>


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 05:33:32 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: not quite glass: Bonnie Clark<fishbait@televar>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:46:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.24657.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sorry to hear of another bungian's passing. Thank you for telling us. I =
dedicate the moments of silence that we had on bungi to her memory, if =
that's not inappropriate.

Linda Campbell

NCScouter wrote:

Sandra S Semperger wrote:
>=20
> To all of fishbait's  ( Bonnie Clarks ) friends
>   Bonnie died of complications of Diabetes, in Yakaima Washington at 7 =
AM
> on February 6 th. If you have questions please feel free to write me
> Sandra Semperger at suzannewest@juno.com or to Sylvia Rich at
> ladyrich@juno.com

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 06:09:56 1998
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From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Your favorite 'green' art glass...
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:08:05 -0500
Message-ID: <199802091302.IAA22948@dns.city-net.com>
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> I'm wondering if I could please have everyone's input on what is their
> absolute favorite green/green-blend art glass to use for tree leaves?

I guess it would very much depend on the type of leaves you're trying to
paint. 

My favorite is Bullseye mottled emerald green.  Sometimes the sheets have
very dark tones sometimes light, sometimes both.  If Zane from Signature
Glass reads this, he can probably give you the color number as I bought the
Bullseye from there.

Dany


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 06:29:28 1998
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From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: not quite glass: dedication of silence
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:23:15 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.02315.0>
References: <<01BD352F.50023960@mmc043.memach.com>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island, NC, USA
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear of another bungian's passing. Thank you for telling us. I dedicate > the moments of silence that we had on bungi to her memory, if that's not > inappropriate.
> 
> Linda Campbell
|-----
 
I second the motion for dedicating the silence of the bungi list in
memory of our friend and fellow stained glass artisan Bonnie Clark. I
was humbled by her generousity and friendship. May the glass she works
with in heaven be 10 times better than Lambert's! <tearful salute>

Valerie Tydings Phelps
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 07:10:30 1998
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From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
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From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:59:10 -0800
To: exotic@lobo.net (Myrddn)
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
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Some extra tools you might want to pick up for your shop that will help
making windows a little easier are:  3, 4, 6, & 8 foot metal rulers.
at least a couple of different sizes of carpenter squares, and a plum
bob.
Also, a good quality tape measure, not the $1.99 ones.
The long rulers will get you nice straight lines. The Carpenter squares
will give you right angles. The plum bob will let you know if the side
of a window is straight and vertical.
I build my panels on particle board and use wooden yard sticks or 1 1/4"
flat molding for the edges. Horsehoe nails work great to hold everything
in alignment. I undersize all windows by 1/16 on the sides and 1/16" on
the top. Using the above mentioned tools helps assure, that should the
window need adjusting,
the completed panel will fit nicely and allow for expansion and
contraction of the house. I have yet to have a panel not fit. Generally,
1/4 round molding is used to hold the panel in place and this is
available in different sizes. However, sometimes special profiled
molding is used to match other molding. I leave all the actual
installation to a licenced contractor.
Hope this helps.

Andrew Tillinghast
Neoglassic Studio

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 07:45:29 1998
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From: Susan Jordan Bennett <sjb@cape.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Lead free solder
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 09:20:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.42018.0>
Precedence: bulk

I've really appreciated the discussion on health risks of lead
especially since we're planning to have a child in the next year or so.
I dread the day I have to give up my art, even for a little while.
Anyway, I'm seriously considering switching to lead-free solder. Has
anyone experimented with the various brands? Any recommendations on
which brand to start with?

Susan
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 08:47:26 1998
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From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Zinc vs. lead
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 08:23:55 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.02355.0>
Organization: The Ivory Express
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
On the question of using H lead came vs. Zinc came for the border of a
panel, I do a lot of garden bath windows and most of the time I do use
Zinc because of the strength.  I will occasionally use lead if I am at
all hesitant on if it's going to fit or not (because it's easier to
trim).  I have never had a problem with sagging.  My panels are usually
foiled and have restrip in them.  Also If zinc is used --I use 3/8" U
came Zinc.  I measure and mark a 1/4" off the pattern for everything to
fit properly.  I usually have a nice tight fit.

One other little trick I use.  If I really have a question on the
squareness of the window I will stretch a string from one corner to the
other (diagonally) and keeping my fingers on the string at the right
measurement I do the same with the other side.  If the two diagonals
don't match I know I have to then make a template.
Hope this helps.
Diane

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 09:15:15 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: age49@epix.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: band saws?
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 10:38:58 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

age49@epix.net wrote:
> 
> M. Savad wrote:
> >
> > j
> > no only a glass bandsaw can be used to cut glass.
> 
> Wouldn't a scroll saw do just fine for glass?
> 
> Dan
> >
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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only if it's outfitted with a glass cutting adapter. where the metal
blade is replaced with a diamond one. and a retro-fit for a water
holder. mainly you need something that will cut the glass, and keep it
wet. there is an adapter for a scroll saw, but it makes everything wet.
and you don't want any vibration or the glass may shatter.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 09:19:34 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Worth of old window?
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:03:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.6310.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all.  A client just brought in an old leaded church window
that his mother had stored in her basement for decades.
I've been asked to tell him its worth.  I was wondering if
anyone could direct me on where I should go to get it
appraised, as I am not an expert in these matters.

It's a round window 36 1/2" in diameter, encased within an
iron frame.  It has the rebars running into the iron frame, which
have been instrumental in keeping this window in good
condition.  The scene is an angel looking almost front-on,
holding a thin scroll upon which are the words "of such is
the kingdom of heaven".  This angel is done in cathedral
red, white, light blue, teal, purple and yellow glass, with quite
a lot of glass painting.  There is silver stain yellow crown
on the angel's head and in the halo.  The wings are highly
detailed with feathers painted in brown.  The face and hand
details are also in the umber brown.  The white robe is
painted with a very light black to give the illusion of drapes
in the robe.  The yellow accents in the robe also have painted
areas.  I suspect the red is flashed glass, but am not sure.

There are 71 pieces of glass, of which 6 are broken.  There
are no missing pieces and breaks are clean and can be
repaired (?UV glue?).  The lead is OK, but the panel could
use a re-puddying and cleanup.  I can find no signature on
it, or anything else which might indicate maker or age.

=46rom looking through Elizabeth Morris's book "Stained and
Decorative Glass", this window most closely resembles
work by Charles Eamer Kempe.

Any help in where I can turn to get an estimate on this window's
value would be greatly appreciated.  I have just photographed
it and can send pictures to those who might be able to help.

Thanks!
Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 09:41:25 1998
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X-Path: ccti.net!don
From: "Don McDonald" <don@ccti.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: light table
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:52:54 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

There have been several suggestions for alternates to light tables, 
some expensive, some small.  I thought I might share what I did.

I took my Morton System cutting surface, placed it on two 2x4's 
running the long direction that rest on 4 bricks.  Underneath it I 
put two GE Lightsticks.  I only had to buy the light sticks, had the 
scrap and bricks.  It was cheap, and I don't have to deal with 
particle board. (In Southern Louisiana, particle board tends to 
become gooey sawdust in a few months.)

Don M. McDonald
Director, Web Services
Chesapeake Communications Corporation
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 09:43:11 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Susan Jordan Bennett <sjb@cape.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lead free solder
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:05:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.656.0>
References: <<1998Feb9.42018.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Susan Jordan Bennett wrote:
> 
> I've really appreciated the discussion on health risks of lead
> especially since we're planning to have a child in the next year or so.
> I dread the day I have to give up my art, even for a little while.
> Anyway, I'm seriously considering switching to lead-free solder. Has
> anyone experimented with the various brands? Any recommendations on
> which brand to start with?
> 
> Susan
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


lead free (i don't think), solder's as well. it's also more expensive.
and i think it contains antimony which can be just as bad as lead...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 09:55:58 1998
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From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: Classydad@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pool table light pattern
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:47:58 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.164758.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-08 10:02:45 EST, you write:

<< I am just finishing a pool table light,  >>

I am very interested in making a pool table light for our home table.  Anyone
know of any patterns available...need to make any modifications? At this
point, open to tiffany style or lead came. Any suggestions are appreciated.

             Margaret
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 10:26:39 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: My Favorite Shop to Buy Glass From
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:55:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.6555.0>
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Along the lines of someone looking for our favorite green, my favorite =
place to buy glass is the Glass Gallery in Yorktown, VA not only because =
Mike is a nice guy but because he has an inventory, sales system that =
helps me to buy glass. I can go in and say, "Mike remember that piece of =
green that I bought for my lamp that was kinda wispy on one side and =
striped on the other...." He looks in his computer and tells me is =
Spectrum No. xxx-xxx and when I bought it and whether he has any in =
stock. Saves my brain space for creating. I love it. Thanks, Mike if you =
are out there.

Linda Campbell
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 11:27:59 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Worth of old window?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:06:32 +0000
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> Hi all.  A client just brought in an old leaded church window
> that his mother had stored in her basement for decades.
> I've been asked to tell him its worth.  I was wondering if
> anyone could direct me on where I should go to get it
> appraised, as I am not an expert in these matters.

Why not give Julie Sloan a call? She doesn't do appraisals, but could 
put you in touch with good people that do.  She's at 

Cummings Stained Glass Studios, Inc.
PO Box 427
North Adams MA 01247

Phone: ( 413 ) 664 - 6578
Fax: (413) 664-6570
Email: cummings@vgernet.net

Albert

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 11:45:53 1998
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X-Path: webtv.net!NEOGLASSIC
From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
To: glass@bungi.com, Margaret41@aol.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pool table light pattern
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:49:55 -0800
Message-ID: <199802091849.KAA20397@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
Precedence: bulk

Check the Worden catalog. There are a couple of pool table lamps in it.

Andrew Tillinghast
Neoglassic Studio
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 12:25:43 1998
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From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
To: morn@nac.net (M. Savad), glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: band saws?
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:54:18 -0800
Message-ID: <199802091854.KAA21093@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
Precedence: bulk

There is a company called RBI Industries
(I believe that is the name) that makes a scroll saw for cutting glass.
It offers a water drip system above the blade and a large cutting
surface. But at around $1200 or so....well, that's getting kinda pricey.

Andrew Tillinghast
Neoglassic Studio
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 12:55:19 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!jkeane
From: Robert & Jeanne Keane <jkeane@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: light table
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:43:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.94332.0>
References: <<E0y1vQj-0002Rh-00@mail.ccti.net>>
Organization: Hee Sun Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Don McDonald wrote:
> 
> There have been several suggestions for alternates to light tables,
> some expensive, some small.  I thought I might share what I did.
> 

Here's what we lucked into and I mean lucked into, but it may give some
addtional places to look for a light box.  We recently opened a retail 
store and in the process of cleaning up we came across an old (not real
old) 
sign-box, it measures 2'X8' and is lighted by two high output 8'
flourescent
tubes.  To cover it we used the old sign faces off of the outdoor
signs.  These are 1/4" acrylic or plexiglass and are white but still
allow a great 
deal of light to pass through them.  Soooo...of you know of anyplace you
could locate some old sign boxes this might be worth a try, although I
don't
know if you would want a box that big in your basement.  Hope this
helps.

Robert & Jeanne Keane 
Hee Sun Stained Glass
17 Main Street 
Reisterstown, MD 21136
410-833-3007
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 13:53:45 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: New show added to list
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:41:14 +0000
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Habatat Galleries will be presenting the hot-formed sculptures by
Richard Ritter and new work by Stephen Powell. Opening reception:
Friday, March 6, 7:30 p.m. For information, Habatat Galleries, Inc.,
32255 Northwestern Hwy. #45, Farmington Hills MI 48334. Phone: (313)
851-9090. Fax: (313) 851-9720. 

The above has been added to EVENTS at http://www.stainedglassbiz.com 
and we've asked the gallery for photos to include. We hope to have 
them soon!

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 14:23:50 1998
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X-Path: eagle.ca!glass
From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Lead free solder
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:51:18 -0500
Message-ID: <v01530500b1051bb063bd@[206.186.242.131]>
Precedence: bulk

Susan,

I have had very poor experience with the Fry brand lead-free solder. It
caused a build up on the iron tip which had to be cleaned off with Sal
Amoniac every 15 minutes or so (very bad for the tip). I called the Weller
people and they said that it was caused by impurities in the solder. I have
since switched to Classique solder and it is excellent. Good Luck.

Sarah

>I've really appreciated the discussion on health risks of lead
>especially since we're planning to have a child in the next year or so.
>I dread the day I have to give up my art, even for a little while.
>Anyway, I'm seriously considering switching to lead-free solder. Has
>anyone experimented with the various brands? Any recommendations on
>which brand to start with?
>
>Susan



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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 14:39:38 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
Subject: Measuring diagonals
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:35:07 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.20357.0>
References: <<1998Feb9.02355.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Feb9.02355.0@?>, "Dianne G. Maddison"
<artglass@flash.net> writes
Dianne,
 One quibble.  String stretches. How do you make sure you are keeping
the same tension on the string throughout the operation?
A carpenter gave me a good tip.  Use two thin strips of wood or dowling
and place the end of each into the diagonally opposite corners.  Mark
where one dowling ends on the other.  Then do the same for the other
corners.  If the wood is stiff enough, there is no bending and so any
differences in length can be accurately judged.  This also works on
verticals and horizontals to check for variation without measuring.  If
the height is the same at intervals across the opening, then no further
measuring is needed.  If not, then get out the measuring instrument!

Steve
>
>One other little trick I use.  If I really have a question on the
>squareness of the window I will stretch a string from one corner to the
>other (diagonally) and keeping my fingers on the string at the right
>measurement I do the same with the other side.  If the two diagonals
>don't match I know I have to then make a template.
-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 14:58:59 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: using H came for window borders
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:17:02 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.20172.0>
References: <<199802090549.VAA20366@norm.island.net>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <199802090549.VAA20366@norm.island.net>, Carol Swann
<seaspray@mail.island.net> writes
>Hi all,
>
>So, I really like the concept of being able to trim lead to fit, but here's
>my question...if the entire weight of the panel is sitting on the H of the
>bottom came, won't the outer part of the H collapse affecting the vertical
>fit of the panel (and make it too short)?? Those lead fins don't seem to
>have much strength.
>
I've taken out windows from the middle of the 19th century for
restoration,and the windows weight has not crushed the lead at the
bottom.  Now, the lower portion of the 'H' was closed, and tacks were
driven through the came on the vertical sides of the window, although I
don't think that had any effect.
[diversion - in another life, I was superintendent of the Radclife
Camera (part of the Bodleian Library in Oxford (UK, not Ohio)) and
occasionally went up to the inside of the lead covered dome to check for
death watch beetle, etc.  There you can see what weight does to nails.
In fact the iron nails cut the lead as its weight pulls downwards.
After 200+ years, the cast lead was replaced and 40 years on, there is
no visible sign of tearing yet.  It will happen though]
No, the real support to the window is to be stuck with putty to the
frame.  Most windows I have to restore are sagging in the middle, and
none at the sides.  Strength for the window needs to be across it not at
the sides.  Steels inside the came where possible, and at the weak ponts
certainly, will provide much more strength than a bit of zinc at the
borders.  
My opinon of course.

>Also, it seems to me that over time the weight of the panel might cause the
>H came to stretch around the location of the plastic installation clips that
>work so well with zinc borders. Comments???

I'd not be too happy with the strength of plastic installation clips.
Being a traditionalist, I'd bet on the lead and traditional installation
techniques.  :)
>
>Also, does anyone have any comments on the look of lead came borders on a
>copper foil panel...over time I think it might look odd as the lead will
>take on a darker colour.
>
If the panel is so heavy as to deform the 'H' lead came border, I'd be
worried about the integrity of the whole panel.

>As you can tell, I'm a strong devotee of zinc came borders since they also
>add to the strength of the panel, as well as simplifying installation.  
>
As said above, I don't think you get any additional strength from
borders.  They (in the kind of installation I do) are already the strong
part of the window.  The weakness is in the centre.  So saddle bars, re-
bars, and internal steels seem to me to be the strength providers.


-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 15:07:00 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
Subject: Re: band saws?
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:55:20 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.195520.0>
References: <<1998Feb8.122534.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Feb8.122534.0@?>, "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net> writes
>jnl wrote:
>> 
>> My husband has a bandsaw for woodcutting, can I use the same saw with a
>> different blade? What type should I choose?
>> 
>> Lisa
>no only a glass bandsaw can be used to cut glass. 
........
>---Mike Savad
I'm not sure I agree with that Mike.
The important element is what the cutting surface of the blade consists
of.  A diamond impregnated blade will cut glass even if it is on a
woodworkers band saw table.  An arrangement can be made to supply water
to the blade with a drip feed.  Of course, the band saw may not like
water near it!  :)


-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 15:31:42 1998
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X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: light table
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 15:41:14 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.94114.0>
References: <<E0y1vQj-0002Rh-00@mail.ccti.net>>
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service  & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Hey Folks,

I love inventiveness and decided to come out of my "thrifty"
closet and share my "found objects" light table
construction.

I'm using a 6" deep desk drawer.  Into this, I've placed a
flourescent automotive drop-light (stolen from the hubby's
toolbox).  Atop the drawer, I put 1/4" thick tempered glass
(which began it's life as a stereo cabinet door).  To mimick
a Morton surface, I'm using a waffle-type ceiling fixture
cover (left from the barn construction project).  VOILA!...a
light table for the "economically challenged".

Shirley
Grapeland, Tx.

 
Don McDonald wrote:
> I took my Morton System cutting surface, placed it on two 2x4's
> running the long direction that rest on 4 bricks.  Underneath it I
> put two GE Lightsticks.

Robert & Jeanne Keane wrote:
> We recently opened a retail
> store and in the process of cleaning up we came across an old 
> sign-box, it measures 2'X8' and is lighted by two high output 8'
> flourescent
> tubes.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 17:00:53 1998
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From: kent&karen kruger <kkruger@terracom.net>
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:51:32 +0000
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please take my name off the list for the e-mail.  too many e-mails and
nothing is said.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 18:44:23 1998
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: light table
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:54:31 +0000
Message-ID: <199802100058.AAA04700@pluto.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Shirley (et al),

What a splendid idea!!
Here is my own version for the "econimically challenged";
An old metal plate thrown out by the BBC engineering dept.,  
measuring roughly 24 x 24 inches;
4 rubber feet (ditto)
light tube fixings
old floor boards cut up to form the sides, sanded and varnished & put 
together;
 6 mm thick obscure perspex sheet (thrown out by ?)
1 x willing (and able) husband, who - bless him - even put a brass 
handle on it so I could easily carry it around, should I so wish.
I have had it now for 15 years.
It works great for me...
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


Shirley wrote:
I love inventiveness and decided to come out of my "thrifty"
closet and share my "found objects" light table
construction.

I'm using a 6" deep desk drawer.  Into this, I've placed a
flourescent automotive drop-light (stolen from the hubby's
toolbox).  Atop the drawer, I put 1/4" thick tempered glass
(which began it's life as a stereo cabinet door).  To mimick
a Morton surface, I'm using a waffle-type ceiling fixture
cover (left from the barn construction project).  VOILA!...a
light table for the "economically challenged".

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 19:13:17 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Bonnie Clark
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:54:31 +0000
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A word  "From Across The Pond".
We are very saddened by the surprising news. 
Bonnie was a keen and helpful contributor, with a delightful and 
"chirpy" spirit.
As Kris -my computer guru - says:
Everything in Life is transient - including Life itself.....
I too will remember her.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 19:21:16 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: using H came for window borders
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:54:31 +0000
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Steve,
You are absolutely right; this has been my own experience also and 
agree with your opinion and words - even though I never had the 
pleasure of "eye-balling" the death-watch beetles at the Bodlean 
Library in Oxford... ;-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Steve wrote:
 Strength for the window needs to be across 
it not at the sides.  Steels inside the came where possible, and at 
the weak ponts certainly, will provide much more strength than a bit 
of zinc at the borders.  My opinon of course.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 19:38:17 1998
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Glass list" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Lead free solder
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:45:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.154516.0>
Precedence: bulk

Actually there are a few formulae for lead free solder, although none
contain antimony. Antimony is traditionally used to add stiffness to lead (I
think my high school science teacher was full of it) (as well as tin) but in
numbers below 1% (in the case of tin- 4%).
Lead free solder typically contains 97% tin and 3% copper, and therefore the
reason for the higher price.
Another thing to remember is that if you want to use lead free solder then
you'll have to use flux, flux brush and soldering iron tip that has not come
into contact with lead previously.
-
Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

-----Original Message-----
From: M. Savad <morn@nac.net>
To: Susan Jordan Bennett <sjb@cape.com>
Date: February 9, 1998 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Lead free solder


>Susan Jordan Bennett wrote:
>>

>> Anyway, I'm seriously considering switching to lead-free solder. Has
>> anyone experimented with the various brands?
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
>
>lead free (i don't think), solder's as well. it's also more expensive.
>and i think it contains antimony which can be just as bad as lead...
>
>---Mike Savad
>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 19:44:44 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!75054.2542
From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: help me find M. Greer
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:58:05 -0500
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Sorry to bother bungi, but Michael J. Greer e-mailed me about the lead
studies I mentioned on Bungi last week, but I can't send my reply to his
"name only" compuserve address.  He needs to send me his compuserve
*number* address.     [Monona Rossol] 75054.2542@compuserve.com
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 19:44:45 1998
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X-Path: webtv.net!NEOGLASSIC
From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Measuring diagonals
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:46:01 -0800
Message-ID: <199802100246.SAA11886@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
Precedence: bulk

Another option... for measuring diagonals with a tape measure is to hold
the tape with the number 1" at the corner and measure to the other
corner. Just remember to subtract 1" from the measurement arrived at.

Andrew Tillinghast
Neoglassic Studio
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  9 22:10:33 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: light table
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:28:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.192853.0>
Precedence: bulk

Years ago I made a light table by cutting the middle out of an old office
desk.  I built a frame for the top from 2*4 lumber and used an old thick
plastic rug protector that was discarded from an office for the top. 
(The kind that goes in front of a desk for an office chair to roll on.) 
I just stuck a couple of clamp lamps on the legs shining up to light it
up and used some white paint on the underside of the plastic to cut the
glare.

You have to test the white paint first.  Some are too opaque and the
light doesn't get through.

( I just sent another message about zinc frames and forgot to change the
address.  Whoever receives it, please forward it to the group.  Thanks)

Gary Dodge                 Dodge Studio Designs         
www.dodgestudio.com

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 00:41:00 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: "Glass list" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Lead free solder
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:11:46 -0800
Message-ID: <199802100803.AAA01096@intergate.lasercom.net>
Precedence: bulk

Mike,

 Why?

Jean

----------

Mike wrote

> Another thing to remember is that if you want to use lead free solder
then
> you'll have to use flux, flux brush and soldering iron tip that has not
come
> into contact with lead previously.
> -
> Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
> 

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 02:08:43 1998
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X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio
From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: using H came for window borders
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:32:34 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.93234.0>
Precedence: bulk

At 20:17 09/02/98 +0000, Steve wrote in part:
>.... I don't think you get any additional strength from
>borders.  They (in the kind of installation I do) are already the strong
>part of the window.  The weakness is in the centre.  So saddle bars, re-
>bars, and internal steels seem to me to be the strength providers.

Sam who has taken apart and restored several hundred old windows would like
to "reinforce" Steve's message, particularly his last statement.  For new
work we always design the necessary reinforcement structure into the pattern
of the panel from the start as we don't like the effect of it being just an
added extra.
Elizabeth & Sam Law
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 04:40:29 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: Glass classes and apprenticeships
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:21:37 +0000
Message-ID: <m0y2EaA-0000XKC@daver.bungi.com>
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Added to the Sources Guide this morning is this information about 
stained glass courses and apprenticeships in Chicago; it also appears 
under "What's New?" at http://www.stainedglassbiz.com 

City Colleges of Chicago, 360 W. Wellington Ste. 12A,
                      Chicago IL 60657. Phone: (312) 553-2888. (773)
                      929-3993. E-mail: david_ward@ccgate.ccc.edu

                           City Colleges of Chicago is the largest
                           minority multi-campus in the world with
                           seven colleges and numerous auxiliary
                           sites. One of their major missions is to
                           supply students with jobs both during their
                           education and afterward, as well as to work
                           with local community businesses. Toward
                           that end, in 1997 they started a stained
                           glass apprenticeship program in conjunction
                           with Harry Truman and Harold Washington
                           Colleges and Klopsch Stained Glass, Stained
                           Glass Emporium, Stained Glass Art Supplies,
                           Glass Art & Decorating Studio, etc.
                           Beginning in the Winter Term (1998), they
                           began placing art/ceramic students at those
                           companies as interns and/or apprentices.
                           They also plan to introduce stained glass
                           into the ceramics programs of those
                           colleges as pilot projects, then to roll
                           the programs out to all other colleges in
                           the system. They also plan to integrate the
                           glass program into their crafts course. For
                           information, contact David Ward at (312)
                           553-2888 or (773) 929-3993.

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 05:40:26 1998
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X-Path: msn.com!vafi
From: "Mehmet Akgunay" <vafi@msn.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: request info.
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:04:22 -0500
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I would like to get copies of your stained glass information
.Thanks.Vafi4@msn.com.

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 08:09:06 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Margaret41
From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: rejones@CapAccess.org, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pool table light pattern
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:29:21 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.152921.0>
Precedence: bulk

On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 Margaret41@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I am very interested in making a pool table light for our home table.
Anyone
> know of any patterns available...need to make any modifications? At this
> point, open to tiffany style or lead came. Any suggestions are appreciated.

I made one using a pattern for a 18" round lamp.  After making each end, 
I carried the pattern into a straight section about 3 feet long.  I then 
put a standard shop light fixture in it.  It looked great for about a 
year then started to sag.  I did not use any rebar (OOPS!)  Live and learn.

BobThanks Bob for your input. I will remember 'rebars'. Thank you all for your
input...I've ordered the Word Lamp catalog.

I hope this reaches bungi in readable forma...I attempted to copy/edit the
text...I'm now keying in on a 'black' colored screen.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 08:44:01 1998
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: using H came for window borders
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:33:45 -0800
Message-ID: <199802101533.HAA22919@norm.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>At 20:17 09/02/98 +0000, Steve wrote in part:
>>.... I don't think you get any additional strength from
>>borders.  They (in the kind of installation I do) are already the strong
>>part of the window.  The weakness is in the centre.  So saddle bars, re-
>>bars, and internal steels seem to me to be the strength providers.
>
>Sam who has taken apart and restored several hundred old windows would like
>to "reinforce" Steve's message, particularly his last statement.  For new
>work we always design the necessary reinforcement structure into the pattern
>of the panel from the start as we don't like the effect of it being just an
>added extra.

Hmmm, I think I've given the group the impression that I don't reinforce
internally as well as using zinc came...I do and I tend to overbuild things
<g>.  I use restrip liberally in my work.

I guess my question for the group now becomes (as a lead came novice) is
there internal reinforcement available for lead? How is it used? I've never
liked to use external reinforcement unless it's absolutely necessary (and
yes, I do design those lines into my piece ahead of time).  Is there some
parallel to restrip for lead came??? If there is something I don't know
about, it will probably help overcome my reluctance to use lead came.

Also, what is the best book on working with lead came...for the advanced
stuff, not just building a basic panel?

Cheers

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 09:13:38 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Ridkah
From: Ridkah@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Has anyone downloaded the Glasseye Internet Design Program?
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:33:19 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.163319.0>
Precedence: bulk

Would be interested in other opinions on this great free program.  

My opinion:
I find the option to resize and print patterns a wonderful innovation to the
glass world.  Most of the "pay for" patterns are very reasonable as well,
considering all the hassle it would be to make a pattern full size by other
methods.  The free patterns have variety and are good although some are aimed
at the beginner.  Would like a tutorial to learn all the great things this
program does of which I'm sure I am still not awareand to find all the
patterns (nearly 200) more easily.  Altogether, a great new alternative to the
projector or Xerox method of patterns and I'll be anxious to go back for
updates on this product as they become available.

J.L.Parker  
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 09:39:04 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:01:18 -0600
Message-ID: <199802101650.KAA22509@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Precedence: bulk


--

>P.S.  I am amazed that most US workers seem to be in copper foil even
>for large panels.

Steve,

The copper foil method is the driving force behind the popularity of SG in
the US. The industry in the late 70's made the correct determination that
this method which is easier to learn, less physically demanding, cleaner,
requires less work space and in many respects more versitile then leaded
work would be the method that they would support. The equipement, teaching
materials, supplies etc. that have been introduced into the marketplace
during the last twenty years are for the most part geared for foil workers.
If you look at increase in the number of folks who participate in the craft
in the US you'd  have to say that their decision was right on the mark.

However when foil crafters move into the area of larger panel fabrication
there seems to be very little available to guarantee that the structural
integrity of the panels is maintained. To my knowledge very few commercial
studios that do large scale installations use the foil method. ( there are
exceptions I know)

For me it is difficult to accept that a  large foiled panel ( especially
with large pieces) has the necessary strength and flexibility to hold
together properly even with bracing attached to the foil solder bead which
is
really not very strong compared to a leaded and cemented section.

I would be interested in hearing from foil crafters who have built large
panels and how they overcame these shortcomings. Or, if someone can
recommend a book that deals with the engineering of large foil panels I
would appreciate it.

On the other hand since most panels are installed on the inside against
existing glazing and are not exposed to moisture or wind load it might in
fact be a moot point.

Len






















  And that they seem to be secondary glazing most of
>the time.  Have I got it wrong?







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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 09:42:18 1998
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X-Path: vortex.netbistro.com!pom
From: "J.  Smith" <pom@mail.netbistro.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: lead free solder
Summary: Authenticated sender is <pom@mail.netbistro.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:33:24 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.83324.0>
Precedence: bulk

In order to use lead free solder its mentioned , you need to use 
supplies  that have not come in contact with lead, then how could 
would it work for soldering....... came, zinc, brass etc....
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 10:09:16 1998
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Lead blood tests
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 98 10:00:47 -0700
Message-ID: <m0y2J3C-000LiCC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1998Feb9.15585.0>>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Hi Monona

You've commented upon the fact that after a couple of weeks, the lead has  
precipitated (adsorbed perhaps?) out into the liver and bones and that a blood  
test won't show much, if anything.

adsorbed
In this case, months or years later, what can be done to detect the amount of  
lead absorbed into a body? Are there any tests that can show this, or does  
one have to undergo a bone biopsy and spectrograph analysis?

The reason I ask, is that lots of us have taken blood tests for lead, but for  
myself, only every year or two. If they aren't going to show anything, then  
this is a waste of time and money.

Thanks,
Charlie
---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 10:36:16 1998
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X-Path: webtv.net!NEOGLASSIC
From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
To: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann), glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: using H came for window borders
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:39:04 -0800
Message-ID: <199802101739.JAA06726@mailtod-121.bryant.webtv.net>
Precedence: bulk

Also available is brass re-enforced lead came. It has a strip of brass
running the length of the came and is embedded in the heart. Also,
Cascade Re-Strip fits into the channel of lead.

Andrew Tillinghast
Neoglassic Studio
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 11:41:37 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Lead free solder
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:29:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb9.62957.0>
References: <<1998Feb9.42018.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I got out my Cline's Catalog and their blurb under lead free solder is
this:
95% tin, 1% silver, 4% copper.  It handles like 50/50 solder.  It
contains no antimony, arsenic, zinc, bismuth, or cadmium. 1 lb. Canfield
solder
> 
> I've really appreciated the discussion on health risks of lead
> especially since we're planning to have a child in the next year or so.
> I dread the day I have to give up my art, even for a little while.
> Anyway, I'm seriously considering switching to lead-free solder. Has
> anyone experimented with the various brands? Any recommendations on
> which brand to start with?
> 
> Susan
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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-- 
xŸ>"3
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 12:10:59 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:13:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.91334.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Len-

I'd say about 90% of the stained
glass work we do is with lead.  The =

other two major studios in town work
almost exclusively in lead - in fact,
have sent copperfoil customers to us
because we won't turn them away;-) !!
When you're doing architectural glass,
leaded panels just make more sense
from design perspective, structurally,
and, last but not least, from a profit =

stand-point.  Face it, once you get used
to working with lead, you can build a =

window faster, it looks crisper, and most
of the time, the customer thinks it's worth
more.  If someone wants a floral window
with 1,000 pieces of glass, sure it would
be copper foil.  But, we don't get alot of
those commissions... who does?  I'd
be interested in finding out what the =

commission studios are selling the most
of percentage-wise.  Copperfoil or lead?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 13:41:42 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "[unknown]" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:13:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.111359.0>
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Message text written by "len alcamo"
>I would be interested in hearing from foil crafters who have built large=

panels and how they overcame these shortcomings. Or, if someone can
recommend a book that deals with the engineering of large foil panels I
would appreciate it.>

The largest copper foil panel I've done to date measures 66" wide
by 33 1/2" tall (inclusive of wooden framing).  I made extensive use
of Re-Strip for internal re-inforcement.  Framed the copper foil panel
in 1/8" zinc U channel.  Framed that in 1" Northern Hardwoods Oak
frame.  It is installed on the inside against existing glazing, and is he=
ld
in place by wooden quarter round molding, as installed by my
construction carpenter guy.  It is in my own bathroom, right above
the whirlpool tub, and is an East facing window.  Lots of sun.  Lots
of heat build up in the summer time, but the heat escapes through
spaces between the moldings.  Installed in 1995.  No cracks.  No
problems.  Patina still looks fine.

<On the other hand since most panels are installed on the inside against
existing glazing and are not exposed to moisture or wind load it might in=

fact be a moot point.<

Wind load is definately a moot point.  But moisture exposure is still
to be considered.  That's why I leave some openings between the
stained glass window and the existing glazing.  So that the window
can breathe.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 14:05:15 1998
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X-Path: mail.intel.com!lynice_spangler
From: "Spangler, Lynice" <lynice_spangler@mail.intel.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Share Bevelling Experience
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:20:26 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.52026.0>
Precedence: bulk

I've just started learning this process on my Diamond Max bevel kit.
I've done 3 so far and I'm learning some things as I go.  I would be
interested in hearing others' tips/experiences. 

It's kind of frustrating.  I think I've just figured out what the glass
should look like before going on to the next finer stage of abrasive,
but now I'm having trouble keeping the bevel all in the same plane.  I
think this is imperative in order to get all the scratches of a certain
level out before moving on. I had been moving the glass around too much
on the disk, moving from the shaft out toward my body and in again.
I've found that if I stay at the same distance from the shaft and move
back and forth in parallel with the 15-degree block it seems to keep in
the same plane better.  My bevels still look like po*p though.  It gives
me a new appreciation for bevels and an understanding of their cost.
It's very time intensive.  

I've also found that bevelling clear glass is a whole lot easier because
you can see through to what surface is actually contacting the wheel.
But I want colored bevels.  This is going to take a while.

L. Spangler

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 14:09:57 1998
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X-Path: mail.intel.com!lynice_spangler
From: "Spangler, Lynice" <lynice_spangler@mail.intel.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Glass Tumbling
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:23:49 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.52349.0>
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I know others have talked about tumbling glass scraps in a rock tumbler.
We just got one over the weekend and I was amazed to read that in order
to tumble rocks, you have to keep them in the tumbler for 7 straight
days at each level of abrasive!  We're thinking glass won't take this
long since it probably falls between 3 and 5 on the hardness scale.
We've been tumbling for 2 days straight now and tonight we think we may
be ready for the next finer abrasive.  How long do the glass tumblers on
the list usually tumble their scraps at each stage?

Thanks,
L. Spangler

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 15:11:58 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: "Spangler, Lynice" <lynice_spangler@mail.intel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glass Tumbling
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:28:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.12288.0>
References: <<1998Feb10.52349.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Spangler, Lynice wrote:
> 
> I know others have talked about tumbling glass scraps in a rock tumbler.
> We just got one over the weekend and I was amazed to read that in order
> to tumble rocks, you have to keep them in the tumbler for 7 straight
> days at each level of abrasive!  We're thinking glass won't take this
> long since it probably falls between 3 and 5 on the hardness scale.
> We've been tumbling for 2 days straight now and tonight we think we may
> be ready for the next finer abrasive.  How long do the glass tumblers on
> the list usually tumble their scraps at each stage?
> 
> Thanks,
> L. Spangler
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i guess it would depend on how rough you want it to look. generally,
stones start rough and go to smooth. but with beach glass you want it
roughish ( i believe). generally for glass, i'd have to say you can
probably cut the time in half. 

the best way is to try it out. that's what i did with my rock tumbler.
each day opening it and seeing how smooth the rocks are.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 15:51:13 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Lead free solder
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:24:14 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.72414.0>
References: <<01BD363C.8C942A60@mmc043.memach.com>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Shirley said:
> 
> I got out my Cline's Catalog and their blurb under lead free solder is
> this:
> 95% tin, 1% silver, 4% copper.  It handles like 50/50 solder.  It
> contains no antimony, arsenic, zinc, bismuth, or cadmium. 1 lb. Canfield
> solder
> 
> It does NOT handle like 50/50 solder. I used it on a canning jar turned into a candy dispenser and it was very pasty.
> 
> Linda

-- 
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 16:09:04 1998
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>, "Glass list" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Lead free solder
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:14:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.131440.0>
Precedence: bulk

Why? If you wipe a flux laden flux brush along a solder line then drop that
brush back into your flux bottle you're going to end up with lead in your
flux defeating the purpose of using leadfree solder.
-
Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jean <jean@lasercom.net>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Date: February 10, 1998 3:54 AM
Subject: Re: Lead free solder


>Mike,
>
> Why?
>
>Jean
>
>----------
>
>Mike wrote
>
>> Another thing to remember is that if you want to use lead free solder
>then
>> you'll have to use flux, flux brush and soldering iron tip that has not
>come
>> into contact with lead previously.
>> -
>> Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
>>
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 16:14:54 1998
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X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass
From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:38:04 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802102338.SAA10773@water.waterw.com>
Precedence: bulk

Dani wrote,

>
>I'd say about 90% of the stained
>glass work we do is with lead.    I'd
>be interested in finding out what the =
>
>commission studios are selling the most
>of percentage-wise.  Copperfoil or lead?
>
We don't do any copperfoil.  Most clients come to us
because of who we are and what we do.  If they wanted
copperfoil they would have gone somewhere else.
I hope that doesn't sound to egotistical but it happens to be 
the truth.

my best,
pj (who remembers teaching a few copperfoil classes and cringes)

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 16:43:14 1998
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X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds
From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: "'Shirley Balloch'" <balloch@netbridge.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Lead free solder
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:29:00 -0200
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.16290.0>
Precedence: bulk


I have made jewelry, especially pins with lead free solder, found no =
problems.. I use a good Hakko iron, flux, and found no difference in =
decorative soldering on the jewelry pieces.. I believe your  iron will =
be the solution to your problems.. I like to keep Canfield in stock..=20
Gloria



-----Original Message-----
From:	Shirley Balloch [SMTP:balloch@netbridge.net]
Sent:	Monday, February 09, 1998 8:30 PM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Re: Lead free solder

I got out my Cline's Catalog and their blurb under lead free solder is
this:
95% tin, 1% silver, 4% copper.  It handles like 50/50 solder.  It
contains no antimony, arsenic, zinc, bismuth, or cadmium. 1 lb. Canfield
solder
>=20
> I've really appreciated the discussion on health risks of lead
> especially since we're planning to have a child in the next year or =
so.
> I dread the day I have to give up my art, even for a little while.
> Anyway, I'm seriously considering switching to lead-free solder. Has
> anyone experimented with the various brands? Any recommendations on
> which brand to start with?
>=20
> Susan
> ----
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--=20
xY>"3=16=01=06?=08
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 16:46:12 1998
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From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: "'Spangler, Lynice'" <lynice_spangler@mail.intel.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Share Bevelling Experience
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:22:22 -0200
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.162222.0>
Precedence: bulk




I would be interested.. Are you using just standard 1/8 inch glass.. I =
know that bevel stock is thicker, but like you I always wanted colored =
cathedral bevels.. Your trying is very interesting.
Please leave me know, Also, hopefully some bevelers might share their =
techniques.
Thanks in advance
Gloria
-----Original Message-----
From:	Spangler, Lynice [SMTP:lynice_spangler@mail.intel.com]
Sent:	Tuesday, February 10, 1998 7:20 PM
To:	'glass@bungi.com'
Subject:	Share Bevelling Experience

I've just started learning this process on my Diamond Max bevel kit.
I've done 3 so far and I'm learning some things as I go.  I would be
interested in hearing others' tips/experiences.=20

It's kind of frustrating.  I think I've just figured out what the glass
should look like before going on to the next finer stage of abrasive,
but now I'm having trouble keeping the bevel all in the same plane.  I
think this is imperative in order to get all the scratches of a certain
level out before moving on. I had been moving the glass around too much
on the disk, moving from the shaft out toward my body and in again.
I've found that if I stay at the same distance from the shaft and move
back and forth in parallel with the 15-degree block it seems to keep in
the same plane better.  My bevels still look like po*p though.  It gives
me a new appreciation for bevels and an understanding of their cost.
It's very time intensive. =20

I've also found that bevelling clear glass is a whole lot easier because
you can see through to what surface is actually contacting the wheel.
But I want colored bevels.  This is going to take a while.

L. Spangler

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 17:13:18 1998
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From: "Spangler, Lynice" <lynice_spangler@mail.intel.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: FW: Share Bevelling Experience
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:30:01 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.8301.0>
Precedence: bulk

I did one early on with 1/8 inch but the edge got too thin.  So I fused
2 pieces of the same color together in our kiln and that works much
better.  I tried the 1/4 inch glass, but it is so hard to cut without a
saw. 

The piece I'm working up to will have beveled pieces in it where the
beveled edge is longer than the width of the wheel.  I'm not sure how
that will work out since I'm having a hard enough time beveling an edge
that fits on the wheel all at one time... Practice, practice...

L.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Gloria & George [SMTP:3hounds@usaor.net]
> Sent:	Tuesday, February 10, 1998 8:22 PM
> To:	'Spangler, Lynice'; 'glass@bungi.com'
> Subject:	RE: Share Bevelling Experience
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would be interested.. Are you using just standard 1/8 inch glass
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 18:18:25 1998
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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: foiled again
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:16:50 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.91650.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dani wrote,
>I'd say about 90% of the stained  glass work we do is with lead. I'd  be 
interested in finding out what the commission studios are selling the most 
of percentage-wise. Copperfoil or lead?

PJ wrote
 We don't do any copperfoil.  Most clients come to us because of who we are 
and what we do.  If they wanted copperfoil they would have gone somewhere 
else. I hope that doesn't sound to egotistical but it happens to be the 
truth.
my best,       pj (who remembers teaching a few copperfoil classes and 
cringes)


I Don't do any lead came. Most clients come to me because of who I am and 
what I do. I f they wanted leadwork they would have gone somewhere else. I 
hope that doesn't sound too egotistical but it happens to be the truth.
my best,    Glenn Spicer ( who remembers teaching a few lead classes and 
cringes) ---well not really cringe, I like all glasswork, but do prefer 
copper foil.
Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 18:41:45 1998
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X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr
From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lead vs.copperfoil
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:39:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.123943.0>
References: <<1998Feb10.91334.0>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island, NC, USA
Precedence: bulk

Dani,
I can only speak for those [commission studios] in my County, and they
are all 85-90 percent copperfoil; and in fact, I'm one of the few in
THIS area of northeastern NC who actually ENJOYS the opportunity to work
in lead! I'm trying VERY hard to break into the architechtural glass
market in this area so that I can do more large leaded pieces for the
seaside homes here.

V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.

> ----
Michael J. Greer wrote:
> 
> Hi Len-
> I'd say about 90% of the stained
> glass work we do is with lead.  The
> I'd be interested in finding out what the
> commission studios are selling the most
> of percentage-wise.  Copperfoil or lead?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 18:49:49 1998
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To: Ridkah@aol.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Has anyone downloaded the Glasseye Internet Design Program?
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:12:45 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.161245.0>
References: <<1998Feb10.163319.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I downloaded the Glasseye Internet dp, tried it out as far as loading one
of the files (bluenude) and began to get "illegal operation"~ notices.  I
probably didn't turn off all the programs that were running "behind the
scenes" before installing it.  So I deleted it.  
I own the Glasseye Design program and I LOVe it - but that is another
story.  I guess I like to make my own patterns too much to depend on a
pattern supplier.  I might try it again if I can get it to run right.
Bob Cutler
Cutler@mail.wittenberg.edu

On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 Ridkah@aol.com wrote:

> Would be interested in other opinions on this great free program.  
> 
> My opinion:
> I find the option to resize and print patterns a wonderful innovation to the
> glass world.  Most of the "pay for" patterns are very reasonable as well,
> considering all the hassle it would be to make a pattern full size by other
> methods.  The free patterns have variety and are good although some are aimed
> at the beginner.  Would like a tutorial to learn all the great things this
> program does of which I'm sure I am still not awareand to find all the
> patterns (nearly 200) more easily.  Altogether, a great new alternative to the
> projector or Xerox method of patterns and I'll be anxious to go back for
> updates on this product as they become available.
> 
> J.L.Parker  
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 19:53:05 1998
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From: Kopp <glassurgeon@mail.clis.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Dining room table in glass?
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:19:10 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980210221910.006936e4@mail.clis.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

My name is Dava and I'm a glassaholic.

I've been reading your posts for about 2 weeks and finally decided to dive in.

I received a request to create a Dining Room table in glass. Actually she
had a brain storm and called to ask me if it was possible. I don't see why
not, but then again, I think nothing is impossible. Total optimist.

I've been toying with potential designs, in my head, for a few weeks. I
feel it is very feasible. It's all in the design, i.e.... strength,
usability, safety, etc. Just a matter of working out the details. Does
anyone have any ideas, impute, precautions, etc., that they would like to
throw my way. All will be read.

(Don't know if she will change her mind or not, so I'm not spending all my
waking hours creating).

Thanks,
Dava Kopp <glassurgeon@mail.clis.com>
I intend to live forever ..... so far, so good!


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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 20:11:56 1998
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X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat
From: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: foiled again
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:55:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.165538.0>
References: <<1998Feb10.91650.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I specialize in copper foil, too, Glenn. Most of my customers tend to
want panels with more intricate designs, and, I also make lamps for
local shops which, of course, are done with foil. If it was good enough
for Mr. Tiffany, it's good enough for me. I was also under the
impression that foiled work is stronger, mainly because of the soldered
seams and, of course, unlike lead, gravity doesn't affect foil. I've
never had to repair a foiled piece because it fell out of the channel.
There are pros and cons for each method, but I definitely prefer the
foil. 
Carolyn
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 20:22:34 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: foiled again and again
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:58:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.105843.0>
Precedence: bulk

I do only foil....try a small piece Tiffany style in came!

The few windows (larger ones 2.5x 4 feet) I have done have been a mix of
came, zinc and foil.
Foil for detail, came for "grids" and two zinc H cames to divide it into
3rds.

I prefer ONLY shades and will generally quote around $300 PER SQUARE FOOT
for a window.
If I need to go to an artist for the design it is EXTRA! Yes, I do not get
many window commissions.

Each to their own........enjoy, H

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 21:50:22 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: pkelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Glass Eye Program
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 1980 06:38:23 -0600
Message-ID: <1980Jan4.03823.0>
Precedence: bulk

I downloaded the program and think its great. Living in Texas the cowboy
pattern will be very popular. Didn't get too much of an oppurtunity to
use it but was curious as to which graphic format could be imported. Any
answers?

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows to all

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 22:15:42 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Shared beveling experience
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:56:18, -0500
Message-ID: <199802110456.XAA19048@mime4.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>I've just started learning this process on my Diamond Max bevel kit.

>I've done 3 so far and I'm learning some things as I go.  I would 
be
>interested in hearing others' tips/experiences.

Welcome to the world of beveling. If it is any comfort I will share 
that my first bevel took me 18 tries to get a bevel I would not pass 
today.
Learned on a Denver Studio Beveler which has upright wheels and can 
be a real challenge at first. Most of my beveling is now done on 12" 
Glasstar disc bevelers in four stages.

The key to success lies in the first step. If this yields a roughed 
in bevel that is even and about 90% ground then the rest should go 
well. Of course, if the bevel is overcut it is necessary that it be 
discarded at this stage.

Holding the bevel and moving back and forth at 90" to the center of 
the disc works well for me. Establishing the angle of the grind is a 
matter of feel. One quickly learns to follow the "bubble" and look 
through the glass to see the actual bearing surface that is being cut.
 Blind beveling, such as for mirror is not something for the beginner 
to waste time on.

Most all beveling for SG is done on 3/16" or 1/4" clear glass. I 
recommend using only 3/16" at first because: 1. it is easier, and 2. 
most stock bevels are on 3/16". 

For the first year or so the first bevel of the day should be a 
practice bevel. This few minutes seems to let your hands settle in 
and then the angles just seem to come in correctly.

To learn, it is a good idea to make a number of practice blanks of, 
say, 1 1/2 " X 2". Just bevel and finish two adjacent sides before 
repeating the process to finish the bevel. As said earlier the trick 
is in getting the first stage correct. The second stage must bring 
the bevel to about 99% of being done while removing ALL scratching 
form the first stage. 

To my way of thinking it is necessary that a beveler be able to 
critique his/her work at all stages and stand ready to admit that the 
work so far on the bevel must be discarded because no reasonable 
amount of further work will redeem it.

Most colored bevels are not worth the effort IMO because they are not 
usually prismatic.
For colored bevels I fuse one sheet of color with two sheets of clear 
with the colored side down on a surface of the appropriate texture. 
When beveled these bevels show clear in the bevel plane and are a 
thing of true beauty.

Bevel the glass and not your fingers as I am fond of doing, Bob


____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow 
Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 10 22:53:53 1998
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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: foil vs lead
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:13:05 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.14135.0>
Precedence: bulk

Well my curiosity about relative strength in large panels between foil and 
lead has been aroused. I don't recall ever seeing any engineering stats on 
that one in here, or perhaps educated deductions (I'm not sure that len was 
stating opinion or fact when he said "For me it is difficult to accept that 
a large foiled panel has the necessary strength and flexibility to hold 
together properly even with bracing attached to the foil solder bead which 
is really not very strong compared to a leaded and cemented section.?") I 
realize that the cement does provide strength but there are a lot of 
factors involved, I have seen many lead panels bowed, but don't recall 
seeing a foil panel suffering the same fate. With similar lead widths, and 
size of widow what are the limits. How much does flexibility or 
inflexibility come into play. I'm especially interested in overhead 
situations for skylights. Are there books on the architectural use of 
stained glass that go into the structural aspects of leaded and foiled 
glass and the methods that are required for each.

Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 00:52:29 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lead free solder
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:58:59 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.155859.0>
References: <<1998Feb10.16290.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Gloria & George wrote:
> 
> I have made jewelry, especially pins with lead free solder, found no =
> problems.. I use a good Hakko iron, flux, and found no difference in =
> decorative soldering on the jewelry pieces.. I believe your  iron will =
> be the solution to your problems.. I like to keep Canfield in stock..=20
> Gloria
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   Shirley Balloch [SMTP:balloch@netbridge.net]
> Sent:   Monday, February 09, 1998 8:30 PM
> To:     glass@bungi.com
> Subject:        Re: Lead free solder
> 
> I got out my Cline's Catalog and their blurb under lead free solder is
> this:
> 95% tin, 1% silver, 4% copper.  It handles like 50/50 solder.  It
> contains no antimony, arsenic, zinc, bismuth, or cadmium. 1 lb. Canfield
> solder
> >=20
> > I've really appreciated the discussion on health risks of lead
> > especially since we're planning to have a child in the next year or =
> so.
> > I dread the day I have to give up my art, even for a little while.
> > Anyway, I'm seriously considering switching to lead-free solder. Has
> > anyone experimented with the various brands? Any recommendations on
> > which brand to start with?
> >=20
> > Susan
> > ----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 02:23:14 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Address
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:40:03 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb10.16403.0>
Precedence: bulk

Rchard Leval would you e-mail me.I might have a commision for you,in
Arenal...Thanks Bungi group.......
Don <eldondo1@juno.com)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 07:14:35 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Kopp <glassurgeon@mail.clis.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:48:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb11.4481.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19980210221910.006936e4@mail.clis.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Kopp wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> My name is Dava and I'm a glassaholic.
> 
> I've been reading your posts for about 2 weeks and finally decided to dive in.
> 
> I received a request to create a Dining Room table in glass. Actually she
> had a brain storm and called to ask me if it was possible. I don't see why
> not, but then again, I think nothing is impossible. Total optimist.
> 
> I've been toying with potential designs, in my head, for a few weeks. I
> feel it is very feasible. It's all in the design, i.e.... strength,
> usability, safety, etc. Just a matter of working out the details. Does
> anyone have any ideas, impute, precautions, etc., that they would like to
> throw my way. All will be read.
> 
> (Don't know if she will change her mind or not, so I'm not spending all my
> waking hours creating).
> 
> Thanks,
> Dava Kopp <glassurgeon@mail.clis.com>
> I intend to live forever ..... so far, so good!
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


let's go over what my vison entails:

1. the glass alone will not be strong enough, there would have to be a
dinning room table under the glass. though it can be a cheap wood.

2. there's more of a chance to get the solder in your mouth, even if you
don't have a baby, food can touch the solder lines. 

3. the top could'nt be 1 piece of glass, you would need solder lines.
which will be difficult to keep clean.

4. breakage: if something plunks down to hard on it, you have broken
shards. and if it was all glass you would have a hole. 

5. soldering would definitly be difficult for something that size. and
cleaning and finishing would also be hard. 


i've thought about these things myself. though i did'nt think of making
a table. i have thought about making a grandfather clock out of glass.
the the only very stable techinuq was, to wrap glass around the wood.
otherwise it may snap in the center due to top heaviness.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 08:14:59 1998
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 98 08:25:30 -0700
Message-ID: <m0y2e2X-000LiCC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19980210221910.006936e4@mail.clis.com>>>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
> My name is Dava and I'm a glassaholic.
all together now....Hi Dava

> I received a request to create a Dining Room table in glass. Actually she
> had a brain storm and called to ask me if it was possible. I don't see why
> not, but then again, I think nothing is impossible. Total optimist.
>
> I've been toying with potential designs, in my head, for a few weeks. I
> feel it is very feasible. It's all in the design, i.e.... strength,
> usability, safety, etc. Just a matter of working out the details. Does
> anyone have any ideas, impute, precautions, etc., that they would like to
> throw my way. All will be read.

the easy way to do this, and probably safest, is to get a dining table the  
shape, wood type, etc that they want, get someone to cut a hole in it the  
correct size and shape, and rabbit an edge to the hole. place a clear sheet of  
glass on top of the rabbit. this should be 1/4" glass, preferably safety or  
tempered glass. there's lots of dining tables with this so that should be  
pretty standard.

you then build your glass window and frame it in at least 1" wood. you simply  
have to screw it to the underneath of the table. place a light under the  
table if you wish, but if you don't, most tables are pretty dark underneath  
and you won't see much of your design. doing it this way you don't have any of  
the problems that mike savad mentioned in his later mail.

i've seen end and cocktail tables done this way, so the technique should be  
transferrable to dining tables.

charlie
---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 08:38:48 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: foil and lead
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:41:43 -0600
Message-ID: <199802111528.JAA07320@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Precedence: bulk

>. Most of my customers tend to
>want panels with more intricate designs,  good enough for Mr. Tiffany, it's
good enough for me.

Tiffany windows were contructed of both lead and foil.

Intricate small piece window sections are often  constructed using small
came ( 1/8, 5/32 )  a difficult ,tedious process.. ask me how I know

>under the
>impression that foiled work is stronger, mainly because of the soldered
>seams and, of course, unlike lead, gravity doesn't affect foil. I've
>never had to repair a foiled piece because it fell out of the channel.

>The few windows (larger ones 2.5x 4 feet) I have done have been a mix of
>came, zinc and foil.
>Foil for detail, came for "grids" and two zinc H cames to divide it into
>3rds.

This is probably the best overall way to contruct a large panel in my
opinion also

Although the detail sections can be fabricated using small cames, it is not
very efficient for a time standpoint and in order  for these sections to
have strength equal to foil, the lead would have to be tinned or a stiff
came would have to be used making to fabrication even more difficult and
time consuming.

 Sections of panels with large pieces of glass in architectural work are
carried in came in order to provide support,  counter the effects of
expansion and contraction and to express proportion.

>-Well my curiosity about relative strength in large panels between foil and
>lead has been aroused. I don't recall ever seeing any engineering stats on
>that one in here, or perhaps educated deductions (I'm not sure that len was
>stating opinion or fact when he said "For me it is difficult to accept that
>a large foiled panel has the necessary strength and flexibility to hold
>together properly even with bracing attached to the foil solder bead which
>is really not very strong compared to a leaded and cemented section.?")
>but there are a lot of
>factors involved, I have seen many lead panels bowed, but don't recall
>seeing a foil panel suffering the same fate.
>With similar lead widths, and
>size of widow what are the limits. How much does flexibility or
>inflexibility come into play

Educated guess. It is well documented that expansion and contraction has the
most effect on the integrity of a panel. A lead matrix particularly when
tying together large pieces , would be more suited to a bend don't break
situation

>but there are a lot of
>factors involved, I have seen many lead panels bowed, but don't recall
>seeing a foil panel suffering the same fate.

Many factors is right. Heat ,moisture,and design among them.

Leaded windows bow because they are improperly braced or in some cases
because the came is too soft.

I have never seen a 100 year old *hingey* foil window  living in a hostile
environment . Most of them are less then 20 years old. So IMHO the jury is
still out

>.With similar lead widths, and
>size of widow what are the limits. How much does flexibility or
>inflexibility come into play. I'm especially interested in overhead
>situations for skylights.

Most skylights and domes that I have seen are very heavily braced regardless
of the matrix material.  I think they are overbuilt  period...irreguardless
of all the other considerations.

I'll just add one more observation. I have seen more old zinc came diamond
and  basic geometric windows with stress cracks in them then leaded ones of
similiar design . I can't say for sure if this is due to the loss of
cushioning ..zinc windows lose cement  more then leaded, of if the zinc is
just too unyielding ...maybe neither. Question is will foiled windows suffer
the same fate in the long run??

Len




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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 08:45:14 1998
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From: NEOGLASSIC@webtv.net (Andrew T)
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Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:00:04 -0800
Message-ID: <199802111600.IAA25020@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
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1. Are you using an existing table or building a whole new one?
If you are building a completely new table then you could design the
table with a couple of cross members to support the stained glass and
then lay a piece of clear glass over the top of the stained glass. 
You would want to make the routes deep enough so that the stained glass
and the clear glass would be flush with the wood.
The clear glass might produce some glare but it would eliminate the
worry of food coming in contact with the stained glass, and would help
to keep the stained glass clean. And, as to the cross members...those
could be hidden by the design of the stained glass.
This sounds like an interesting project.

Andrew Tillinghast
Neoglassic Studio
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 09:06:55 1998
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From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: lynice_spangler@mail.intel.com
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Subject: Re: Share Bevelling Experience
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:41:28 EST
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Hi Lynice, I do beveling also but not on any of the new machines like the one
you have. I have tried one at a local shop that I do beveling for, and I have
to admit it frustrated me also. One thing that you must learn to do is not to
take your miters all the way to the edge on the first stage of beveling, each
stage of beveling is a grinding process even though we like to call it
polishing , it is actually grinding yet a finer miniscule scratch into the
glass, take the miters to the corners on the second stage and then when you go
to "polish" the bevel you won't have to worry about the miters at all. The
first and second stages of the beveling process are the hardest to learn and
master and the most critical. Once you get past them your almost there. Then
you just have to "polish" with pumice and cerium oxide and your done. I'm not
familiar with the process that you go through on one of those small bevel
machines but is probably similiar. I agree with Bob about the colored bevels
"Whats the Point".Beveler4@aol.com. (Stan)
P.S. However I have seen some nice ruby red bevels once would sure like to
give that a try.
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 09:07:07 1998
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X-Path: glasstreasures.com!sgt
From: Stephanie Hansen <sgt@glasstreasures.com>
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Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:00:31 -0600
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980211100031.0080c100@glasstreasures.com>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19980210221910.006936e4@mail.clis.com>>
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Dava wrote 
>> I received a request to create a Dining Room table in glass. Actually she
>> had a brain storm and called to ask me if it was possible. I don't see why
>> not, but then again, I think nothing is impossible. Total optimist.

Mike wrote:
>2. there's more of a chance to get the solder in your mouth, even if you
>don't have a baby, food can touch the solder lines. 

Now I've never tried anything like this, but just another thought to throw
in the mix....what about doing it as mosaics instead?  Is that a
possibility for what the client has in mind?  I know I've seen pics of
end/coffee tables done in mosaics just recently.  Mike's right about the
possible problem with exposed solder lines, not to mention that the solder
lines will make the top of the table uneven if you bead them and may not be
strong enough if you do a flat solder line.  I kind of like the mosaic
idea,though....hmmm.....wonder if it would work.....

Steph ~

-----------------------------------
Stephanie Hansen - Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX
Affordable stained glass pieces for gifts or personal use
Enter the sweepstakes to win a stained glass suncatcher!
<mailto:sgt@glasstreasures.com>   <http://glasstreasures.com/>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 09:26:00 1998
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Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:46:47 EST
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Could this project not be done like a large coffee table where the frame is
the table and you would put a large piece of beveled glass on top of the art
glass and another piece below...as in a sandwich effect?  There would of
course have to be several struts across the table to support such a weight,
but if the design accomodates these wooden supports it should be a feasible
project.

Just a thought,

Good luck, 

Paned Expressions Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 09:26:13 1998
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From: Northernlights <borealis@goldengate.net>
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Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:58:40 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb11.35840.0>
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First, I'll admit that I'm still REALLY new to stained glass.  When I 
read this question, I too thought about lead poisining and also about 
stability -- the picture that popped into my mind was sandwiching the 
stained glass between two pieces of solid glass....I realize it would be 
extremely heavy so the base of the table would really have to be 
designed well....maybe wood (or iron?) criss-crossed like a french 
window???  Just a thought...I may be totally way off base and am anxious 
to hear where I'm wrong in my idea.  Thanks!

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 09:30:04 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:02:32 +0000
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> table if you wish, but if you don't, most tables are pretty dark underneath  
> and you won't see much of your design. 

I've seen a dining room table with glass applied like mosaic tiles. 
It was very impressive, imposing ... and very dark. I'm still not 
sure I liked it much.

Perhaps if glass were applied to a *glass (or acrylic) table, 
allowing the light to come through the glass of the table itself, 
it'd be more pleasant.

Albert

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 11:30:06 1998
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From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Lead blood tests
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 98 11:40:38 -0700
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fyi

Begin forwarded message:

Return-Path: <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:32:04 -0500
From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Lead blood tests
Sender: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
To: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
Content-Disposition: inline


> You've commented upon the fact that after a couple of weeks, the lead has
> precipitated (adsorbed perhaps?) out into the liver and bones and that a
> blood  test won't show much, if anything. <

Absorbed into bones and some tissues, but not the liver.  It's easy to
remember if you know that the body can't tell the difference between lead and 
calcium.  What it does with calcium (bones, teeth, etc.), it does with lead.


> In this case, months or years later, what can be done to detect the amount
> of lead absorbed into a body? Are there any tests that can show this, or
> does  one have to undergo a bone biopsy and spectrograph analysis? <
>
> The reason I ask, is that lots of us have taken blood tests for lead, but
> for  myself, only every year or two. If they aren't going to show anything, 
> then  this is a waste of time and money. <


The best thing is to schedule the regular blood lead test near the end of a
heavy work period when you have been exposed on a regular basis.

Barring that, after a couple of weeks there is another test called a zinc
protophorphyrin test or ZPP that will detect the marker in the blood where
lead was.

Later than that, there is a "lead chelate challenge" where a small amount of
a chelating agent is put in to the blood and after a certain amount of time
the your the blood and urine is tested to get an idea how much lead is stored.


These last two tests are not done unless there is good reason as determined
by a doctor who knows this field.  The challenge carries some risk.  Going to 
a doctor who is board certified in Occupational Medicine or in Toxicology is
a good idea.  But these specialities are hard to find in some communities.

Hope this helps.


Monona


Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York, NY 10012-2586   212/777-0062

<http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 11:56:40 1998
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:43:20 -0500 (EST)
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>To: Northernlights <borealis@goldengate.net>
>From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
>Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
>Cc: 
>Bcc: 
>X-Attachments: 
>
>Northern wrote,
>- the picture that popped into my mind was sandwiching the 
>>stained glass between two pieces of solid glass..
>
>Now thats a thought.
>How about having the panel put into a tempered unit and having the table
built around it Or have a pedestal base made. And frame the unit setting it
on the pedestal or two for a large table. Use mostly opalscents and heavy
textured glass for the design and you won't have to worry out the light
factor. If your worried about weight?  We've done some etched table tops
that go way over 150 lbs. 
>
>Just "my" thoughts.
>
>my best,
>pj
>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 12:47:40 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: New stuff on stainedglassbiz
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:06:14 +0000
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New information at http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ under "Events"
and/or "What's New" put up today:

Free trial software and patterns from Connected Lines

Deadline for Out-of-Hand show in New York
  April 10

American Bevel's giving a "Designer" workshop 
  March 13

Swiss glass school offers workshops and accredited training
  June 28 to July 5  
  July 12 to July 19  
  July 26 to August 2  
  August 9 to August 16  
  August 23 to August 30  
  September 6 to September 13 

Other news you might be interested in:

Albert Lewis, Executive Director of the International Guild of Glass
Artists, has been appointed Director of Communications and Special
Projects at Ecole superieure de vitrail et de creation (The Stained
Glass Craft and Fine Art College) in Sion, Switzerland.  He will
continue in his position with the Guild, donating his time and
energies to its programs as before, while developing educational
programs in Switzerland and the United States for the Ecole superieure
de vitrail et de creation. He is currently talking with the Board of
Directors of IGGA about plans for workshops and a year-round school in
western Massachusetts, working with Mass MoCA (Massachusetts Museum of
Contemporary Art - http://www.massmoca.org/ ) and the Ecole superieure
de vitrail et de creation.

Ecole superieure de vitrail et de creation (The Stained Glass Craft
and Fine Art College) offers degree programs in affiliation with the
National Graduate School of Applied Arts and Crafts, Paris. Its
three-year program in stained glass education will be augmented
beginning this year with workshops of shorter duration, allowing
working professionals to hone skills and acquire needed techniques
side-by-side with the nearly 40 full-time students in the regular
programs.  The school's web site is at http://www.esvc.vsnet.ch/ 
Illustrated brochures about the school's programs are available on
request.  Email to alewis@vgernet.net or write to Albert Lewis, PO Box
1809, North Adams, MA 01247.

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 14:18:28 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Lead and Calcium
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:24:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb11.112414.0>
Precedence: bulk

"Calcium Could Reduce Effects of Lead"
read the headline in yesterday's paper.
The Associated Press article goes on to
say:

"Increasing calcium consumption may do =

more than strengthen your bones and teeth.
For billions of American children and adults
exposed to excessive lead, boosting calcium
intake could sharply reduce the absorption
of lead and its harmful effects, researchers
say." =


There is an article on the subject in the
December issue of Environmental Health
Perspectives, a journal published by the
National Institutes of Health.  Lead author
is John Bogden, professor of preventative
medicine and community health at the
University of Medicine and Dentistry of
New Jersey.

Have any of our resident experts read of this
latest research?  Any comments?  Should =

we all start wearing milk mustaches?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 14:50:02 1998
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Lead blood tests
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 98 16:59:13 -0500
Message-ID: <199802112157.QAA12956@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Group,

For lead purposes, what age is considered a "child"?

I am teaching a 13-year-old girl and her parents have expressed interest 
in sending her 10-year-old brother, to have lessons also.

Is that too risky?

Thanks
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 15:23:01 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: New stuff on stainedglassbiz
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:44:14 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb11.224414.0>
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In a message dated 98-02-11 15:48:17 EST, you write:

<< Albert Lewis, Executive Director of the International Guild of Glass
 Artists, has been appointed Director of Communications and Special
 Projects at Ecole superieure de vitrail et de creation (The Stained
 Glass Craft and Fine Art College) in Sion, Switzerland.  >>

Congratualtions Albert !!!!!

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 15:40:19 1998
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X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds
From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: "Online" Stained Glass Auction
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:53:24 -0200
Message-ID: <1998Feb11.155324.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am not endosing this site, but I found it amusing.. "ebay" is an =
"online" auction, anything from collectilbes to clothes.. While surfing, =
I entered  "stained glass" and 73 entries came up.. Thought you would =
enjoy.   Some of the entries go to thier WEB page.. Enjoy.

http://gecko.ebay.com/scripts/ebaySearch/search.idq?TextRestriction=3Dsta=
ined+glass&CategoryID=3D&HTMLQueryForm=3D%2Fscripts%2FebaySearch%2Fsearch=
.htm&SortOrder=3D%5Ba%5D&maxRecordsPerPage=3D75&maxRecordsReturned=3D250=
0&SortProperty=3DMetaEndSort&whichIndex=3Dcurrent

Also, if anyone profits from this site would you please share.
Gloria

PS.. How can they sale the Butterfly Ladies so Cheap.. The Lady herself =
is close to that price.. =00=00
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 16:19:53 1998
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From: jnl <jnl@nep.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:29:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb11.132939.0>
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Precedence: bulk

My mom has a glass topped coffee table about 4'x4' square that has a
pull out drawer directly under the glass  that can be filled with items
then replaced when the seasons or tastes change. Maybe you could create
one on a larger scale filling the bottom with an uplight and placing a
panel above it to show through the glass. This way if she wants to
change it she can.

Have you considered using tile and grout or something similar using the
glass? There is a mexican resturaunt near my house that inlaid tile in a
pattern into a wood framed table. It is terribly uneven however, I would
definately put glass over it.

Lisa
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 16:43:50 1998
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From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: "'WhispyBlu@aol.com'" <WhispyBlu@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: New stuff on stainedglassbiz
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:48:07 -0200
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Also, Congratualtions Albert !!!!!   I am glad for you.. 
Are you moving.. 

-----Original Message-----
From:	WhispyBlu@aol.com [SMTP:WhispyBlu@aol.com]
Sent:	Wednesday, February 11, 1998 8:44 PM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Re: New stuff on stainedglassbiz

In a message dated 98-02-11 15:48:17 EST, you write:

<< Albert Lewis, Executive Director of the International Guild of Glass
 Artists, has been appointed Director of Communications and Special
 Projects at Ecole superieure de vitrail et de creation (The Stained
 Glass Craft and Fine Art College) in Sion, Switzerland.  >>

Congratualtions Albert !!!!!

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 17:20:56 1998
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Subject: Re: "Online" Stained Glass Auction
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:36:23 -0800
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Been there done that!

Cheap because it is IMPORTED!!!!!!
I know a few of the glass vendors on EBAY.............The only competition
is to see who can get shades cheaper and more (if possible) poorly done.

I do buy some (non-glass) stuff from there and have found that if you know
what you are buying and do not get caught up in "auction" fever it can be a
useful tool.

I will be shortly listing some stuff to sell as well and may even list some
of my small production shades.

MADE in USA, signed and numbered!

not hungry enough yet to make a commitment, but may just try it.

enjoy, H

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 17:38:24 1998
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Subject: DR table
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:38:41 -0500
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Good Evening Bungis,

The interest and posts about the DR table are great. Thank you.

I have visualized all sorts of possibilities for the table creation.
Base: probably wood or wrought iron (new or adapted ? don't know)
Top: sandwiched between two sheets of glass, or a center drop down section
in a wooden table w/clear glass cover, or a mosiac..... I like the idea
that Albert Lewis shared.
			>"Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net> wrote:
>Perhaps if glass were applied to a *glass (or acrylic) table, 
>*allowing the light to come through* the glass of the table itself, 
>it'd be more pleasant.

	Don't know if foil or lead would be better. The lead would give nice flat
lines to accommodate *sandwiching*. Lead will add more weight though. So
many factors to consider. That's why I came to you guys. Brainstorming with
SG interested folks.

>At 08:24 AM 2/11/98 -0500, Jerry wrote:
>Please post it to the group if you take on this project.  I'm
>sure I'm not the only one who'd like to hear about it.
>Jerri

	I will keep you up to date on this if she commissions it. May have to make
one, even if she doesn't, just to see if I can.

>P.S. I like your opening and your mailing address.  I'm an RN, so maybe
>I should change mine to "glassnurse".  I just wasn't very creative when
>my husband was setting up my e-mail.

	Actually, 'GlasSurgeon' is the name of my Moblie Windshield Repair Co. I
choose the name because I could use it for both glass ventures. For stained
glass, I now use 'Designs by Dava' A Division of GlasSurgeon. Speaking of
the windshield repair biz; has anyone used glass resins to repair a glass
break? I've used my windshield repair resins on 3 pieces now. It works
wonderfully!!! If a piece is shattered, forget it. But if it is a clean
break, only a trained eye can find the repair. I've asked people to find
where I'd repaired the break on one piece and no one has found it yet.

Well, got to go. It's time to play *Jeopardy*.

Dava


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 17:49:27 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: New stuff on stainedglassbiz
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:16:48 +0000
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> Also, Congratualtions Albert !!!!!   I am glad for you.. 
> Are you moving.. 

Thanks, Gloria & George (and LuAnn, too) ... I'll be doing what I do 
from here in Massachusetts, since what I'll be doing will involve the 
U.S. end of things, mostly.

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 18:49:51 1998
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Subject: "Online" Stained Glass Auction
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:19:16 EST
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Hello Gloria,
      I found the e-bay auction site this week too, and decided to type in
"stained glass" in the search box. What a surprise to see all the stained
glass items there for sale !
      you wrote>>PS.. How can they sale the Butterfly Ladies so Cheap.. The
Lady herself =
is close to that price.. =00=00 >>
      I know !! That was my reaction too. maybe the seller is a stained glass
supplier and gets the butterfly lady castings wholesale....the completed
butterfly ladys were selling there for $18.00......weren't they?? And the
seller must have had at least 12 to 15 different ones on auction  there.
      Anyway, Gloria gave the URL in a previous posting, so everybody here can
go have a look at this interesting web site.  (E-Bay) 

                  ~Alison~




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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 19:20:45 1998
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Subject: Pattern Shears
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:51:29 EST
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I'm about to do a large window for a customer. It's 2ft x 3ft. I have bought
my first pair of pattern shears. Before I just used the 'ol grinder to get the
pieces to fit right. I tried to cut out my pattern, and I'm very frustrated
with the shears. Are there any secrets to using these things? It's for
copperfoil.
I'm new to this group, so "howdy yall". Appreciate your help.
Susan
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 19:36:10 1998
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Subject: Re: New stuff on stainedglassbiz
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:30:20 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-11 20:50:08 EST, you write:

<< . I'll be doing what I do 
 from here in Massachusetts, since what I'll be doing will involve the 
 U.S. end of things, mostly. >>

Would you be interested in telling more about what you will be doing?

Lu Ann
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Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:46:33 -0500
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At 06:29 PM 2/11/98 -0500, Lisa wrote:
>My mom has a glass topped coffee table about 4'x4' square that has a
>pull out drawer directly under the glass  that can be filled with items
>then replaced when the seasons or tastes change. Maybe you could create
>one on a larger scale filling the bottom with an uplight and placing a
>panel above it to show through the glass. This way if she wants to
>change it she can.

Lisa,

I love this one. Having the ability to 'change your table with the seasons
OR your moods' is a fabulous idea.

Thanks,
Dava



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From owner-glass Wed Feb 11 20:41:00 1998
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
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Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 98 22:40:58 -0500
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Susan wrote:
>I'm about to do a large window for a customer. It's 2ft x 3ft. I have bought
>my first pair of pattern shears. Before I just used the 'ol grinder to get 
>the
>pieces to fit right. I tried to cut out my pattern, and I'm very frustrated
>with the shears. Are there any secrets to using these things?

Suzanne answers:

Howdy Susan, welcome to the group. 

Yes, the pattern shears are frustrating. I just gave them up after 10 
years. I think I get a better fit by using regular scissors, and grinding 
a bit more, or cutting a little on the small side. 

The only secret I found to using them, is taking "little baby cuts." I 
would let the schnibbles fall where they may, and clean them all up 
later. Then if any of the pattern pieces have ragged edges, I would just 
cut that part off with a regular scissors later. Good luck!

Suzanne

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 00:19:32 1998
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Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 02:46:03 -0500
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Hi Susan,
Forget the shears.
I tried just once to cut out a pattern,with the pattern shears, my first
SG panel.  Tossed  them away, made a light box, and now just trace the
pattern directly on the glass.  Saves endless time, tempers, etc.  In
the few case's where the glass is too dark to see through on the light
box, just cut out that one or two pieces with regular scissors, and
trace around the cardboard on the glass.  It is known as the 'English'
method and works great.
Try it, you'll like it.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

CWWSLW@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I'm about to do a large window for a customer. It's 2ft x 3ft. I have bought
> my first pair of pattern shears. Before I just used the 'ol grinder to get the
> pieces to fit right. I tried to cut out my pattern, and I'm very frustrated
> with the shears. Are there any secrets to using these things? It's for
> copperfoil.
> I'm new to this group, so "howdy yall". Appreciate your help.
> Susan
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 01:48:50 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
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Subject: Re: New stuff on stainedglassbiz
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Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 03:59:34 +0000
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> << . I'll be doing what I do 
>  from here in Massachusetts, since what I'll be doing will involve the 
>  U.S. end of things, mostly. >>
> 
> Would you be interested in telling more about what you will be doing?


Organizing a school, LuAnn, although it'll probably start out in a 
summer school format and grow to year-'round. But you can be sure 
that I'll let you all know about it as it develops. 

Albert

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 04:20:02 1998
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From: "Robert S. Cutler" <rcutler@wittenberg.EDU>
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After a second attempt to download  and install GlasseyeIE, I'm happy to
report that the program works perfectly.  I haven't seen ALL the patterns
yet, but those I have looked at are beautiful AND, considering what can be
done with/to them, they are IMO reasonably priced.
Bob Cutler


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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 05:21:37 1998
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From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:37:04 -0500
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Hi Susan,

	I'm one of those who tried pattern shears many years ago and
hated them.  In the copper foil class I took, no one really showed us how
to use them.  I put them away and always used the lightbox method or
carbon paper to trace my patterns.  Recently I took a lead class, and my
retailer gave me his shears to bring home and use, and showed me how to
use them.  The trick is to cut and then push the shears forward.  Don't
worry about the little strip of paper, it keeps going out the back.  I
couldn't believe the difference.  I tried it with my foil shears, and it
worked too.  I think I still like my old way for copper foil (I guess
because I've been doing that for years, as opposed to using the shears
for a couple of weeks now.), but for lead, it saves a lot of cutting.

Jerri



>I'm about to do a large window for a customer. It's 2ft x 3ft. I have 
>bought
>my first pair of pattern shears. Before I just used the 'ol grinder to 
>get the
>pieces to fit right. I tried to cut out my pattern, and I'm very 
>frustrated
>with the shears. Are there any secrets to using these things? It's for
>copperfoil.
>I'm new to this group, so "howdy yall". Appreciate your help.
>Susan
>

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 05:50:11 1998
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Subject: Re: Dining room table in glass?
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At 10:00 AM 2/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Dava wrote 
>>> I received a request to create a Dining Room table in glass. Actually she
>>> had a brain storm and called to ask me if it was possible. I don't see why
>>> not, but then again, I think nothing is impossible. Total optimist.
>
>>Steph wrote:
>Now I've never tried anything like this, but just another thought to throw
>in the mix....what about doing it as mosaics instead?  

        I did a large mosaic glass end table that turned out pretty well. If
you want light to come through and have a sturdy enough wood base, you can
do the mosaic on a sheet of table top glass, which will allow some light to
come through the table giving the 'stained glass effect'. For my table, I
took a stained glass design and was careful to leave cement lines only as
thick as lead came would be.

Carol

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 06:08:30 1998
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From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
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Subject: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 06:07:13 -0800
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Hi All,
Lee Boe wrote that he uses the "English Method" of stained glass where
the pattern is drawn directly on the glass.  I also use that method and
teach it to my students.  A light table (3'x4' and cost $25.00 to make)
is great to lay the whole pattern on.  I like to be able to see the flow
and coloration of the glass as I match it to my pattern pieces.  The
pattern pieces are drawn on to the glass with a Sharpie.  The trick is
to cut inside the Sharpie line--that way you have very little grinding
to do and you have the room for your foil and solder.  It works well for
lead also.
Dianne

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 06:20:12 1998
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Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:18:47 EST
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Hello Susan,

I have found only a few secrets to cutting with copper foil shears.

1.) Keep them very sharp and VERY clean. (no scotch tape adhesive on blades,
etc.)

2.) Make long cuts starting from near the axis (closest to the handles)

3.) Make small curve cuts using the far end of the blades.

Paper is very dulling on knives, cutters and blades.  Would love for them to
come up with a sharpener for a pattern shear someday!!   

Even after working with pattern shears for nearly 20 years, I still find
myself cutting some cuts (small inside curves) with regular shears and then
just trimming it back a bit.

Keep on cuttin',

Paned Expressions Studios
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From:         HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu
To:           glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:      Re: Pattern Shears
Date:         Thu, 12 Feb 98 10:26:00 EST
Message-ID:   <980212.103155.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<1998Feb11.22713.0>>
Precedence: bulk

When I try the "English method" I find that I do not consistently
draw on the inside or outside of the pattern lines and am thrown
off by the depth of the glass and maybe even my bifocals!  Also
i use a lot of opalescent glass and find it hard to see well enough through
on my lightbox.  Don't think I'm going to build a brighter lightbox
at this time, but I did just get new glasses!  (Yeah, I know
practice would help).  And I do put glass on my lightbox and use it
to position my pattern pieces.
Dorothy K    (Who is having a miserable time with changing the address
to reply...ah, well, my problem)

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 08:56:49 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: New stuff on stainedglassbiz
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:33:52 EST
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Congrats Albert Lewis in your additional responsibilities!
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 08:57:22 1998
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Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:40:10 EST
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I have found that the short, fast snips gets you a bit further than the long
cuts.
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 09:17:08 1998
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:42:43 -0500
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Message text written by INTERNET:CWWSLW@aol.com
>I'm very frustrated
with the shears. Are there any secrets to using these things?<

Don't try to cut the full length of the shear at one time.  Make
little, tiny cuts, then move the shears up so that the waste paper
is gathered inside the opening.  Use especially tiny cuts when
going around a curve.  Try to hold the paper level in one hand
while cutting with the other.

This is rather hard to describe via email.  But try to make little
"cut, gather, cut, gather, cut, gather..." rather than
"Ccccccccuuuuuuuuuuuuutttttttttttt".

Man, if I could only just show you. <s>
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 10:45:27 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:16:31 -0600
Message-ID: <199802121805.MAA01176@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Precedence: bulk



.  Use especially tiny cuts when
>going around a curve.  Try to hold the paper level in one hand
>while cutting with the other.

I use this method also

for long straight cuts I use a Stanley fixed blade utility knife with two
blades separated by a piece of flattened lead and I cut against a straight
edge.

Buy the best.... ( I prefer the flat nose, non-tapered blade style)  haven't
checked in a while but how much can they cost?

Len




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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 11:19:14 1998
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X-Path: mail.clis.com!glassurgeon
From: Kopp <glassurgeon@mail.clis.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:08:58 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980212130858.00688d04@mail.clis.com>
References: <<1998Feb12.25129.0>>
Precedence: bulk


At 09:51 PM 2/11/98 EST,
Susan wrote:
>Are there any secrets to using these things? It's for copper foil.
>Susan

Hi Susan,

I guess I'm in the minority when it comes to pattern shears. I use them all
the time, with great results. Apparently, I do one thing very different
than most, which may be what allows me to cut patterns successfully with
the shears.....I laminate. I have found, the thicker the pattern, the
better the cut is with shears.

I make two working copies of all patterns (more if experimenting with
coloring), retaining the originals for my file. After I've numbered and
drawn directional lines on them, I laminate the two copies at our local
teacher's supply store ($.75 per ft.). I leave one copy intact as a layout,
and cut the other with pattern shears, either lead or foil. I use my light
box to pick the section of glass I want for each piece. I then lay the
laminated pattern piece on the glass and outline it with a gold or white
paint marker. The thickness of the laminate and paper makes it very easy to
trace. If the pattern piece is such that it is difficult to hold and draw,
I use a little glue stick. Glue stick is easily rinsed off of the pattern
with hot water. You must rinse & dry quickly to reduce the chance of
lamination penetration. Be sure to cut to the INSIDE of your line. A quick
brushing with 0000 steel wool removes any unwanted paint lines. Having the
layout sheet laminated allows me to grind the necessary spots, place the
wet glass directly onto the layout sheet, and check for accuracy, without
worry of ruining it. The moisture even holds the pieces in place as it
dries on the layout. It does not work on textured glass. Before placing my
cleaned, foiled pieces back on the layout to be soldered, I wipe it clean
with a dampened paper towel. I do tack-solder carefully, as not to burn the
laminate. Then I remove the layout before soldering further. After I'm
finished, I place the layout sheet and pattern pieces into an appropriate
size zip-lock bag, and label. If it is a large pattern, I cut the layout
into square sections, and tape back together after laminating. Using the
shears, I cut the pattern into sections, following the pattern lines. I
then laminate the sections, and complete the cutting after laminating. I
use empty paper towel cardboard rolls to store large layouts.

I've used the same 2 copies repeatedly. I find it well worth the $.75 per
ft. I only have to cut each pattern once, no matter how many time I use it.
Also, it greatly reduces the prep
time. 

Just sharing 'my system'.

Happy cutting!
Dava


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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 11:31:24 1998
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From: Kopp <glassurgeon@mail.clis.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: DiamondCRETE
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:20:50 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980212132050.0069e734@mail.clis.com>
Precedence: bulk

DiamondCRETE for stepping stones(ad description below)
Has anyone tried this product?
If so: What results did you get? What was the cost?

In 'Stained Glass News #39' (the most recent issue) Pg. 6, the ad reads:

"DiamondCRETE" Garden Stone Cement sets up in just 35 minutes
*Pops out of the mold in 35 minutes
*No reinforcement necessary
*Easy to use - Just add Water
*12 Beautiful Colors available
*10 lb Boxes

After 1 1/2 years in development and testing, this cement has changed the
course of garden stones, mosiacs, and wall palques. No more heavy open bags
of concrete laying around or hard to cut reinforcement wire, "We make it
EASY"!!

Rayer's INC.
Ask your local retailer
				*********************************



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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 11:50:19 1998
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From:         HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:      Re: Pattern Shears
Date:         Thu, 12 Feb 98 13:26:34 EST
Message-ID:   <980212.133013.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<34E3283F.23534A5A@fast.net>>
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Hi, Charles
Naw, I make a pattern out of oak tag by tracing my pattern with carbon
between and cutting with glass shears. (Incidentally, I learned
different, but figured out what worked for me).  Then if I have
interesting glass, I'll put it on a light box and figure out where to
put each pattrn piece.

So...since I have your attention...any Glass Vision dates for this
summer so I can plan another PA vacation?
Dorothy

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 12:21:10 1998
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X-Path: oregontrail.net!dterry
From: "Douglas R. Terry" <dterry@oregontrail.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Glasseye (WON'T WORK)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:35:52 -0800
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opps forgot to ghange address to bunge

>At 06:46 AM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>After a second attempt to download  and install GlasseyeIE, I'm happy to
>>report that the program works perfectly. 
>
	mite note its ONLY windows 95 will  NOT  WORK IN WINDOWS 3.X	
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 12:53:47 1998
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X-Path: crcwnet.com!dandl
From: Dave & Lynn Loda <dandl@crcwnet.com>
To: Kopp <glassurgeon@bmd.clis.com>, "glass@BUNGI.COM" <glass@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: DiamondCRETE
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:08:54 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb12.4854.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19980212132050.0069e734@mail.clis.com>>
Organization: Art Glass of Wenatchee
Precedence: bulk

I haven't used it, but it is not cheap and unless you are making the brick, 10
LBS is not enough  for a stone.

Dave
Kopp wrote:

> DiamondCRETE for stepping stones(ad description below)
> Has anyone tried this product?
> If so: What results did you get? What was the cost?
>
> In 'Stained Glass News #39' (the most recent issue) Pg. 6, the ad reads:
>
> "DiamondCRETE" Garden Stone Cement sets up in just 35 minutes
> *Pops out of the mold in 35 minutes
> *No reinforcement necessary
> *Easy to use - Just add Water
> *12 Beautiful Colors available
> *10 lb Boxes
>
> After 1 1/2 years in development and testing, this cement has changed the
> course of garden stones, mosiacs, and wall palques. No more heavy open bags
> of concrete laying around or hard to cut reinforcement wire, "We make it
> EASY"!!
>
> Rayer's INC.
> Ask your local retailer
>                                 *********************************
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



--
____________________

Dave & Lynn Loda
Art Glass of Wenatchee
http://artglassw.com
Stained Glass Gifts & Supplies


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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 13:24:44 1998
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X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye
From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: DiamondCRETE
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:39:10 CST 6CDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: GSA-ORSP
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DiamondCRETE for stepping stones....

-------

I posted this question myself recently.  Although I didn't hear from 
anyone with first-hand experience, I gather it gives good results, 
comes in lotsa colors and sets up quickly.  Unfortunately, it's much 
more expensive than regular concrete.  Since I was asking relative to 
16" stepping stones, needing multiple 10-lb. containers @ $17.00 each 
made the cost prohibitive.  Although it might be reasonable for 
smaller projects, for my big stones I'll keep mixing my own sand, 
gravel & white Portland cement.  

Kaye
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 15:21:08 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:26:26 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Feb12.62626.0>
References: <<1998Feb11.21463.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Susan:

I use Mika pattern shears...There are three blades to interchange so you
have both lead and copperfoil shears.  I have found that when you use lead
came 5/32 and below, one should use the copperfoil shears else the kerf is
too wide and causes the pattern to be smaller than it should.    Peggy

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 15:49:23 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
Subject: Re: foiled again
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:39:34 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb12.213934.0>
References: <<1998Feb10.165538.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Feb10.165538.0@?>, Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
writes
>I specialize in copper foil, too, Glenn. Most of my customers tend to
>want panels with more intricate designs, and, I also make lamps for
>local shops which, of course, are done with foil. If it was good enough
>for Mr. Tiffany, it's good enough for me. 
"Horses for courses" comes to mind.  Not everything Mr. Tiffany did was
above reproach.  Some of his windows are in a sad state resulting from
his techniques, not lack of maintenance.

I'm not sure everything he did was in copper foil anyway.  Certainly the
only window from his studio that I have seen was in lead came.

>I was also under the
>impression that foiled work is stronger, mainly because of the soldered
>seams 

Well solder may be stronger than lead, but what holds the seam to the
glass (or more correctly) the glass to the seam.  I suspect that the
lead light cement I use will be in place many years after the impact
adhesive holding the copper foil and glass together have failed.

Most of my work is for primary glazing, so it is exposed to the weather
and must be able to withstand wind, rain, etc.  I don't have the
confidence in copper foil to standup to that treatment.  So, when I use
a section of copper foil in a leaded window, it is used as secondary
glazing.

>and, of course, unlike lead, gravity doesn't affect foil. 

Really!!!!   here we have gravity free zones where ever foiled work is
installed?  :)  :)   :)   honestly!

>I've
>never had to repair a foiled piece because it fell out of the channel.
Have we had foiled pieces up for 90 to 100 years?  But also I agree that
not all leaded work has always been up to the highest design and
construction methods.

>There are pros and cons for each method, 
Yep.  & I work in both, although mostly in copper foil for domestic
internal furnishing items.

>but I definitely prefer the
>foil.
Good luck to you.  And despite the possible tone of the above comments,
I don't have strong feelings about the different techniques. Some people
just get on better with one style or technique than another.

Best wishes
Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 15:52:06 1998
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X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw
From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:03:32 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb12.11332.0>
Precedence: bulk




>I'm about to do a large window for a customer. It's 2ft x 3ft. I have
bought
>my first pair of pattern shears. Before I just used the 'ol grinder to get
the
>pieces to fit right. I tried to cut out my pattern, and I'm very frustrated
>with the shears. Are there any secrets to using these things? It's for
>copperfoil.
>I'm new to this group, so "howdy yall". Appreciate your help.
>Susan


I never cared much for pattern shears Susan.. I prefer using 2 patterns..
One to build the  window on and  the other to use on a large light table...
Works a lot easier for me...

Byron...

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 16:11:03 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Glenn Spicer <gspicer@seaside.net>
Subject: Re: foil vs lead
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:43:37 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb12.214337.0>
References: <<1998Feb10.14135.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Feb10.14135.0@?>, Glenn Spicer <gspicer@seaside.net>
writes
>Well my curiosity about relative strength in large panels between foil and 
>lead has been aroused. 
I too hope there are those who can give us some information on this! 

...........
>realize that the cement does provide strength but there are a lot of 
>factors involved, I have seen many lead panels bowed, but don't recall 
>seeing a foil panel suffering the same fate. 

Are we talking of the same age of panels here?  Of course, not all
leaded panels were of the best design, but my impression is that they
are much older than copper foil ones.  Am I wrong or right?

.........

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 16:13:50 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: suzanne albright <suzy@comcat.com>
Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:07:37 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb12.22737.0>
References: <<199802120338.WAA05544@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <199802120338.WAA05544@uz.ComCAT.COM>, suzanne albright
<suzy@ComCAT.COM> writes
>
........
> of pattern shears. 
.............

Yes.  I'll be more constructive now.  Two possibilities I have used.  I
made a knife with two parallel scalple(sp) blades a pencil width apart
and cut template with them.  Fiddly, especially when the gap clogged.
So I moved on to use a single blade, used a felt tiped pen (magic
marker?) around the template, and cut just inside the line.  The latter
works best for me.

-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 16:21:27 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: CWWSLW@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:03:53 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb12.22353.0>
References: <<1998Feb12.25129.0@?>>
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In message <1998Feb12.25129.0@?>, CWWSLW@aol.com writes
>

> I have bought
>my first pair of pattern shears. 

>I tried to cut out my pattern, and I'm very frustrated
>with the shears. Are there any secrets to using these things? It's for
>copperfoil.
My secret ( and in my experience) is either to throw them away or give
them to your worst enemy with a glowing recommendation!!!!

I am mean  :)   but then I'v had the best part of a bottel of wine
tonight.

-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 16:33:49 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
Subject: Re: New stuff on stainedglassbiz
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:53:55 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb12.215355.0>
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In message <m0y2iJL-0000hqC@daver.bungi.com>, Albert Lewis
<alewis@vgernet.net> writes
........
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director of the International Guild of Glass
>Artists, has been appointed Director of Communications and Special
>Projects at Ecole superieure de vitrail et de creation (The Stained
>Glass Craft and Fine Art College) in Sion, Switzerland.
......
Congratulations Albert!!!!!!!!
-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 16:34:50 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
Subject: Internal re-inforcement for lead came
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:34:48 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb12.223448.0>
References: <<199802101533.HAA22919@norm.island.net>>
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In message <199802101533.HAA22919@norm.island.net>, Carol Swann
<seaspray@mail.island.net> writes
.........
>I guess my question for the group now becomes (as a lead came novice) is
>there internal reinforcement available for lead? How is it used? 
.........
>  Is there some
>parallel to restrip for lead came??? 
...........
Yes.  In the UK thin mild steel strips about a metre long are sold.
They fit into the lead came as they are the same height as standard
heart lead.  It makes the heart size larger, and this has to be taken
into account in planing the cut lines.  

You can also get came with the steel imbeded in the heart of the came.
This is much harder to work with - needs a hacksaw or came cutter.  
>
>Also, what is the best book on working with lead came...for the advanced
>stuff, not just building a basic panel?
The one I found was experience, practice, mistakes, discussion.
>
Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 18:58:22 1998
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: foil vs lead
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:12:09 +0000
Message-ID: <199802130116.BAA22468@pluto.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hey chaps (and Chapesses!)
Haven't you forgotten one rather important little detail?

Copper foil was invented about 100 - 150 years ago by a gentleman 
called Tiffany.......
Lead was "invented" by some mysterious gentleman, whose name will 
probably forever remain in the obscure mist of history , some.... 
perhaps..... 800 - 900 - 1000,  or even 1200 years ago......?  (!)
I'm not surprised that the odd "old" leaded panel is showing some  
signs of fatigue.
Speaking for myself, I'm only 51 + 3/4 , yet have noticed that 
everything is slowly beginning to "Travel South"....  ;->

For Lead to show a certain amount of "fatigue after 500  - 600 years 
(  or more, in some cases), is pretty good going by anyone's 
standard.

Copper-foil STILL has to be exposed to THAT sort of test .......
Come back and "haunt" me in 400 years time to tell me how copper-foil 
has stood the test of time, THEN I will most certainly listen.
In the meantime, I'm still learning!!!!!

And in answer to the question of percentage lead vs. copper-foil 
work/commissions:
My work is entirely lead orientated; my commissions are 99.9 percent 
for lead-work. I enjoy making 3D pendulum clocks (copper-foil); I 
make them as a relaxation and when I sell them, they sell as I make 
them. They are "impulse creations" and sold for the "impulse market". 
I don't make copper-foil lamps (only as presents for friends & 
family). 
My largest panel was about 85 sq.ft., triangular panel (in ONE 
piece!!)l,  fitted into a gable "hole"  for an indoor swimming-pool. 
It has plate-glass fitted inside and outside around it. Nevertheless, 
 the scaffolding and the transport requirements were quite 
mind-blowing at the time. The engineering calculations of 
re-inforcing and strength-considerations almost brought me to my 
knees at the time.  ONE panel??!!  Sir!   You   M U S T   be joking!!
He wasn't!!
Next size down was St.Francis College. It's on my WEB-page. After 
installation,  the Governors of St.Francis changed the Church around 
and made the part where my panels were into a Lady Chapel. The total  
stained glass work I did, I seem to remember was something in the 
region of about 75 sq.ft.
On the OTHER end of the scale; I made a small round panel (approx. 
2.5 sq.ft.) for a new house extension. The design was a heron flying 
across still water in moonlight. It was conceived as an "internal" 
panel. When the customer saw it, he got the builders back in and made 
them knock a round hole into the EXTERNAL wall. This is where it now 
lives; high on a hill, overlooking a small market-town in 
Hertfordshire. To get the builders in to make the "hole", cost this 
customer 3 times as much  as what he paid for me to make his panel.
It's a very tranquil panel and very simple.   ....But very effective.

 My 2 cents worth!
 Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK  (the latter of 
whom... is 400 years old - less 396....!)    ;->



Glenn wrote:
>realize that the cement does provide strength but there are a lot of 
>factors involved, I have seen many lead panels bowed, but don't recall 
>seeing a foil panel suffering the same fate. 


Steve in UK answered:
Are we talking of the same age of panels here?  
Of course, not all leaded panels were of the best design, but my 
impression is that they are much older than copper foil ones.  Am I 
wrong or right?

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 12 22:58:49 1998
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From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Lead blood tes
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:08:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb12.20859.0>
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...............forwarded...........................
From:          suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To:            "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject:       Re: Lead blood tests
Date:          Wed, 11 Feb 98 16:59:13 -0500
Hi Group,
For lead purposes, what age is considered a "child"?

I am teaching a 13-year-old girl and her parents have expressed interest 
in sending her 10-year-old brother, to have lessons also.
Is that too risky?
Thanks   Suzanne
----------------------------------------------------------

There is a kind of consensus among lawyers, educators and regulators as to 
the age at which toxic substances can be used.  The legal criteria are that 
the individual must be able to *understand* the potential hazards and be able 
to carry out precautions *effectively* and *consistently.*  These criteria 
are not age specific.  For example, your liability would still be at risk if 
you used lead with 40 year old individuals who were mentally disabled.

The developmental age at which normal children should be able to meet the 
legal criteria is about age 12 or 13.  This is why the Consumer Product 
Safety Commission (CPSC) rules designate those in grade 6 and under as 
children.  CPSC further says only art materials that conform to ASTM 
D-4235 and whose labels list no warnings whatever should be used by grade 
six and under.   Included among the "warnings" CPSC used as examples in this 
guideline was: "use with adult supervision."   
 

Teachers who do not follow these rules have a very big liability problem if 
anything goes wrong because this is accepted practice and a governmental 
guideline.  In a sense, the expert witness against the teacher in the trial 
is the CPSC.


I hope this helps.



Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York NY 10012-2586   212/777-0062

http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 03:41:47 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: foiled again
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 05:00:39 +0000
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> >local shops which, of course, are done with foil. If it was good enough
> >for Mr. Tiffany, it's good enough for me. 

> I'm not sure everything he did was in copper foil anyway.  Certainly the
> only window from his studio that I have seen was in lead came.

Tiffany Studios created hundreds of windows in lead came ... American 
churches are full of them ... some are quite nice, some are dreadful, 
designwise, but they're certainly constructed entirely with lead 
came. Many of the grand houses had windows by the Studio, too.


Albert

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 04:00:14 1998
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Decorative Solder
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:54:01 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb14.1541.0>
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 hi

Shakeel Abedi
GlassArt Stain Glass Studio
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: 07-7729489, 7722212
Fax: 07-7733313
shakeel@tm.net.my 

-----Original Message-----
From: SSparks99@aol.com <SSparks99@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, November 27, 1997 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: Decorative Solder



>Mike:
>
>Thanks for the tips on decorative solder.  Since I am interested in this
>early on I thought I could perfect my techniques right along with my glass
>techniques. 
>
>I love stained glass - and actually dream about finding beautiful glass.
>
>This is terrible!  But, a GOOD terrible!
>
>Ha - Keli
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 08:46:02 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: St. Pat patterns & a new Moor!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:09:26 +0000
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Get ready for your St. Patrick's Day Party on March 16th by checking 
out one of the newest books available from the Guild Library ... sure 
and you have a few clients interested in things Irish. <s>

 "St Patrick in Stained Glass: 
  An Illustrated Life of Ireland's Patron Saint"  ... it's just $6.99 
and you can find it at http://www.aiap.com/amazon/ 

Click on "The Newest Books" ... you'll find it under "Patterns."

And for those of you who're interested in cutting-edge glass design, 
Andrew Moor's books have always been must-have items. His latest is

"Architectural Glass Art: 
  Form and Technique in Contemporary Glass" ... published by Rizzoli, 
so you know it's tasty. It's discounted 30% off its list price of 
$50, so you can get it for a mere $35. What a deal. Again, go to 
http://www.aiap.com/amazon/ and click on "The Newest Books" ... 
you'll find Andrew's latest under "Windows."

If you order either by clicking through from the Guild's Library, the 
Guild earns a little bit for its programs. If you roam around Amazon 
after you get to their site, then place your order from there, the 
Guild doesn't earn anything, so remember to go from the Guild Library 
to place your orders for any of the over 2,700 glass books you'll 
find there.  Thanks!



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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 09:15:35 1998
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From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: glassurgeon@bmd.clis.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:48:16 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb13.134816.0>
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I agree with Dava - I have laminated some of my more important patterns (that
may get re-used) with much success in using pattern shears etc.  I use the
same process  she/he described.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 09:38:33 1998
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From: jnl <jnl@nep.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: stepping stone stability
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:22:22 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb13.42222.0>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Is anyone successful in making stepping stones that do not crack? I live
in Pennsylvania and two stores I have tried to buy molds from in my area
told me not to bother.   How would I go about puting the design on a
preformed stone? I bought a few pavers at my home improvement center to
try it out but I am a little nervous about putting them together. I was
planning on just laying my desisgn on top and filling in the gaps with
mortar. I just do not know how to keep the pieces in place while I fill
in the gaps with mortar. Is there some kind of glue I can use? Will this
work? 

Lisa
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 09:42:44 1998
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From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: "Enlightenment"on light table
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:26:17 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb13.12617.0>
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Hi Fellow Bungians,
Carol asked about my light table--so here goes.  It is constructed of
all two by fours and stands 35".  There is one 2x4 for each leg with
2x4's making the top and cross pieces for each leg (stability).  The top
is routed out 1/4" and plate glass has been inserted.  I have 2 double
shop lights hanging underneath the glass.  The shop lights are hung by
chains and attached to the end 2x4's of the table.  They are a perfect
length for a good fit.  If you can come across a piece of plate glass at
a local commercial glass and mirror shop that they have goofed on or is
scratched then you're in luck.  Ask for cut offs or unclaimed pieces.
Usually the "cut offs" are thrown away so they are glad to get rid of
them. Good luck and let me know if this helps any.  My big secret is
that I bought it 17 years ago---things were a lot cheaper then but I
figure that it can still cost about $25.00 if you can find damaged or
"cut off" plate glass.  I wouldn't make the table until I found the
glass so as to make it to the size of the glass.
Dianne

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 09:55:31 1998
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From: Northernlights <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: New Idea - Headboard
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:27:29 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb13.12729.0>
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Since the question came up about a dining room table, my "over-active
imagination" seems to have kicked in...I started imagining a stained
glass headboard for a bed!  At first I thought, "That's has to be
impossible to create," but what with all the knowledge contained in this
group of people, I thought I would throw out my idea.  IS it
possible???  Would/should it be done in lead???  (I have a strong liking
to copper foil work myself.)  I would assume it would have to literally
be built onto a backing of some sort through the middle of the piece for
support -- wood frame??? And if so, how would you "adhere" it to it's
"internal" support??  This may sound like a crazy idea, but what I
pictured in my head was absolutely gorgeous.  Just thought I'd throw
something out for people to think about.  Thanks!
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 11:19:06 1998
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X-Path: craftnetwork.com!petem
From:     Pete Mitchell<petem@craftnetwork.com>
To:       <glass@bungi.com>
Subject:  SGB Update
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:39:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb13.83923.0>
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Hi!

Stained Glass Biz has updated its website to include more 
graphics, better speed, and an easy-to-use interface.  

Check out other glass artists' work by visiting our 
renovated Gallery.  Also visit hundreds of pieces of work 
from top professionals in the Light Show.

When you're at http://www.stainedglassbiz.com don't 
forget about the pattern search which has been newly 
updated with over 200 new patterns!

Enjoy!
Pete
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 11:46:32 1998
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From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: jnl@nep.net, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: stepping stone stability
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:45:07 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-13 12:39:02 EST, you write:
  Lisa wrote -
<< Is anyone successful in making stepping stones that do not crack? I live
 in Pennsylvania  >>

I live in Philadelphia and have been interested in making a few stepping
stones. The weather can get cold here - have been considering putting resin on
top of the finished product which was suggested for several reasons.  It has
also been suggested that in colder climates, you may need to bring the stones
inside.

I also purchased a paver from local home improvement center (Home Depot). I've
been 'attaching' my glass pieces with ES600 glue, but it seems to take a long
time to complete. I've decided to use some of the grout products -- there is
some kind of cement product that you can use when tiling - the process should
go quicker.

You may wish to give Rainbow Stained Glass in Bristol, PA a call if Bristol is
not too far from you. I know they will be scheduling a class on stepping
stones and Dale has promised me that he would even include the cement part of
the process.  I dont know their phone number off-hand, but if you are
unsuccessful in finding it, e-mail directly and I'll look for the business
card (i'm familiar with their hours and just go).


Margaret

From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 12:20:07 1998
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From: "Davis, Denise F" <dfdavis@ou.edu>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: RE: New Idea - Headboard
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:01:35 -0600
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Northlights,  How about a long, narrow, "window" along the top of a
headboard?  

Northlights said:

> ..I started imagining a stained glass headboard for a bed!  
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 12:49:06 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: More patterns ... and a new look!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:49:26 +0000
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The latest Patterns ... Your Way (TM) information was just added to 
the "What's New!" section of http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/

And staineglassbiz.com has a Whole New Look! Check it out: when you 
get to the site, you click on Biz Buzz ... and you'll see a new list 
of possiblities, including "What's New!" and "Events."

Click on "What's New!" to get the latest on Patterns ... Your Way. 
Click on "Events," then on "March" to see all about the Glass Bead 
Expo taking place in New York City next month.  Enjoy!

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 14:01:14 1998
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From: Scott Evans <sae@netins.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: making stepping stones
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:55:41 -0600
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With all this talk about stepping stones, it makes me wonder how the
process of making them actually works.  I understand the process of putting
the glass in place in a mold and then pouring the cement into the mold, but
what keeps the glass in position and keeps the cement from leaking under
the glass?

Scott

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 15:21:59 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Northernlights <Northernlights@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: New Idea - Headboard
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:32:39 -0500
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Northernlights wrote:
> 
> Since the question came up about a dining room table, my "over-active
> imagination" seems to have kicked in...I started imagining a stained
> glass headboard for a bed!  At first I thought, "That's has to be
> impossible to create," but what with all the knowledge contained in this
> group of people, I thought I would throw out my idea.  IS it
> possible???  Would/should it be done in lead???  (I have a strong liking
> to copper foil work myself.)  I would assume it would have to literally
> be built onto a backing of some sort through the middle of the piece for
> support -- wood frame??? And if so, how would you "adhere" it to it's
> "internal" support??  This may sound like a crazy idea, but what I
> pictured in my head was absolutely gorgeous.  Just thought I'd throw
> something out for people to think about.  Thanks!
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i would imagine a dado in the bed-post frame. and the panel would be a
drop in. since it really would'nt be necessary to light it so you can
strengthen it in the back. an idea would be to get a piece of wood and
center it on the back. down the center of that wood you would rout a
keyhole dado down the center. then make a flat steel I or T beam on the
back. this way when you lower it into the slots on the side, the metal T
will slide into the strip in the back; and that would prevent the panel
from bowing out from the middle. 

i guess you can leave it open at the top but that would be weaker...
also make sure to leave enough space-height so you head does'nt come
crashing through the glass.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 15:54:30 1998
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Subject: Re: stepping stone stability
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:09:30 EST
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You might want to check out Warner-Crivellaro's web site and their new catalog
is fantastic.  They are located in Allentown, PA.  Their catalog has four
wonderful pages dedicated to stepping stones, mosaics, and supplies.  Their
web site is:  http://www.warner.criv.com

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 15:56:50 1998
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Subject: Fwd: making stepping stones
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In a message dated 98-02-13 17:01:37 EST, sae@netins.net writes:

<<  but
 what keeps the glass in position and keeps the cement from leaking under
 the glass? >>

Clear contact paper - place the glass onto the contact paper that has been cut
just to the edge of the form.  Even if some of the cement ends up seeping on
the glass it is easy enough to wipe off with a wet rag/sponge or extra fine
steel wool (0000).

Lu Ann

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From: Scott Evans <sae@netins.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: making stepping stones
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:55:41 -0600
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With all this talk about stepping stones, it makes me wonder how the
process of making them actually works.  I understand the process of putting
the glass in place in a mold and then pouring the cement into the mold, but
what keeps the glass in position and keeps the cement from leaking under
the glass?

Scott

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 16:21:19 1998
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From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
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Subject: making stepping stones
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:47:38 CST 6CDT
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I understand the process of putting
the glass in place in a mold and then pouring the cement into the mold, but
what keeps the glass in position and keeps the cement from leaking under
the glass?
--------

There are others with lots more experience at this than I, but in the 
class I took, the glass is placed (face down) on a sheet of Contact 
paper cut to fit the bottom of the mold.  This holds the pieces in 
place and is peeled off when the stone is unmolded.  There can be a 
little leakage, but those little bits of concrete can be 
scraped/chipped off with a utility knife.

Kaye
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 16:29:27 1998
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From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: stepping stones
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:23:19 -0800
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Hi All,
Scott, the glass is kept in place in the mold because clear contact
paper is used.  Your glass pieces are placed on your pattern then you
place the contact paper on top of the pieces carefully so as to not move
any of the pieces.  I cut the piece of contact paper to fit the outside
of the pattern.  Pick up the contact paper with the pieces attached,
turn it upside down and place it in the mold.  This keeps the glass in
place and also keeps cement from getting all over the glass.  After the
stone is removed from the mold peel off the contact paper and clean the
glass with a wet sponge.  That should remove any excess cement off the
glass.
Dianne

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 17:08:16 1998
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From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: stepping stone stability
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:08:23 -0500
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Well guys, I live in Canada, and it sometimes gets a little cold up here,
but I make lots of stepping stones and they don't crack - even the ones
outside all winter.

To winterize them you can add extra portland cement to your concrete, use a
concrete sealant on the tops and sides to keep out moisture, and/or put a
few inches of mulch over them in winter to keep the snow and ice off.

If you try to glue a glass mosaic onto an existing concrete stone, it will
definitely not be weatherproof, since water will eventually work its way
between the glass pieces and the concrete. Also, it's just as difficult to
try to do a patio stone this way as pouring it from scratch.

Good luck...and besides, even if you make a mistake and the stepping stone
cracks or falls apart, you can just pick the glass pieces out and re-pour
it in no time - concrete is cheap and pouring the stones is pretty quick
work.

Sarah


>Is anyone successful in making stepping stones that do not crack? I live
>in Pennsylvania and two stores I have tried to buy molds from in my area
>told me not to bother.   How would I go about puting the design on a
>preformed stone? I bought a few pavers at my home improvement center to
>try it out but I am a little nervous about putting them together. I was
>planning on just laying my desisgn on top and filling in the gaps with
>mortar. I just do not know how to keep the pieces in place while I fill
>in the gaps with mortar. Is there some kind of glue I can use? Will this
>work?
>
>Lisa
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 17:40:09 1998
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Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:29:39 -0500
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I use pattern shears for foil, and a utility knfe with two blades (side by side)
for lead. You place a shim made of cardboard or matchstick between the two
blades. Depending on the heart of the lead, you can adjust the shim to open or
close the distance between the two cutting edges. You then can cut your pattern,
hopefully keeping both blades in contact with the paper or whatever. If you
check the gap against a scrap piece of came in between cuts, you won't have to
do much grinding to fit.  It takes some practice to follow curves, but has
worked well for me.
--
'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative
altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's
most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for
others?' "Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.


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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 18:04:17 1998
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Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: mosaic tile]]
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friends,
this came over my museum newsgroup and i thought that perhaps someone on
my glass newsgroup, especially in his geographical area, might be able
to help him out.  thanks for your efforts,
Linn

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From: JohnLeeke@AOL.COM
Subject:      mosaic tile
Comments: To: preservation-L@netcom.com, histpres@zoo.uvm.edu,
          jgarskof@compuserve.com, rob_saarnio@pem.org,
          BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU, Lisa_Sasser@nps.gov,
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          Starrmarsh@aol.com, Old-House-l@listserv.aol.com
To: MUSEUM-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM

Could you please help me get in touch with a tradesperson or craftsperson with
experience in the repair and preservation of ceramic mosaic tile floors. The
project is located in Maine.

John Leeke, Preservation Consultant

26 Higgins St., Portland, Maine 04103, USA
207 773-2306 (phone and fax)
Practical Restoration Reports, Publisher
Historic HomeWorks: http://www.housenet.com/HistoricHomeWorks/index.htm




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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 18:52:26 1998
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Subject: Re: stepping stone stability
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:09:04 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb14.294.0>
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I've only done stepping stones make with pre-made stones. I use a glue called
WeldBond. You can get this at a hardware store. It is a white glue.
Step 1. Dust off stone really well.
Step 2. Glue your pieces of glass down. Either you can spread the glue over a
small area of the stone at a time, or just to the back of each piece as you
put it on. Be sure not to have a lot of excess glue squish out from underneath
your glass.
Step 3. Let this dry till glue is clear. I usually don't disturb mine for 3
days.
Step 4. Mix up your grout. I use a sanded grout. On the bag it says for
indoor/outdoor use.
 Add enough water till it is about like a cake batter. 
Step 5. I wear plastic gloves for this. Take a damp sponge and just go over
your glass.    
 Then, pour some grout onto the glass,about a cup and a half or so. Rub it
into your       
 glass really well.( with gloved hands).I also go around the sides, like you
were    
 icing a cake. Take excess off till you just start to see colors of your
glass.(With damp sponge) Let that dry till you see a haze on glass. Then with
a scotch pad (green thingy).  polish off haze. I usually let this stone dry a
day or two. You can also use diluted WeldBond as a sealer. 
I've done about 45 stones. So far, no problems, but our weather here is pretty
mild. (Alabama). E-mail me if you have any questions.
Susan
 

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 19:10:11 1998
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Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:19:17 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb14.21917.0>
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Well, to shear or not to shear. That is the question. I appreciate all the
answers. I will try to use the dang things again. 
I never thought about laminating patterns. For some of my small patterns, I
have used clear contact paper over them to preserve. This works pretty good.
What is "oak tag"? Is it about like poster board? Where could I find it?
Susan
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 19:28:19 1998
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X-Path: t-online.de!025142320-0002
From: Tiffany-Glas@t-online.de (Herbert Luidolt)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: More patterns ... and a new look!
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 03:22:00 +0100
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Thank you Albert for the Info.
But i found a "deat" link or the link not ready now?
However, i look later again.
We have also some Free Patterns on our Page:
http://www.bastelzauber.com
Look at section "News"
On time only tree pattern, but
we have all moth a new Pattern (February
we link only to Spectrum, because we have
no time (I work on new Catalogue)
Hello from Germay to all reader
herbert

Albert Lewis schrieb:
> The latest Patterns ... Your Way (TM) information was just added to 
> the "What's New!" section of http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/
>
> And staineglassbiz.com has a Whole New Look! Check it out: when you 
> get to the site, you click on Biz Buzz ... and you'll see a new list 
> of possiblities, including "What's New!" and "Events."
>
> Click on "What's New!" to get the latest on Patterns ... Your Way. 
> Click on "Events," then on "March" to see all about the Glass Bead 
> Expo taking place in New York City next month.  Enjoy!
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 19:53:22 1998
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From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Congrats and IGGA question
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:25:21 -0500
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Congratulations Albert!  

	I had a question about the IGGA site.  I've tried to get on the
library site several times and it always says that it can't open a
connection to the server.  Does this site work?

Thanks,

Jerri

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 20:03:17 1998
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From: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
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Subject: Re: stepping stones
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:58:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb13.165824.0>
References: <<1998Feb13.72319.0>>
Organization: The Stained Glass Place
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Scott & Dianne:
You also have to make sure you're using a form where one side is the
same as the other, in order to use Dianne's instructions. If you're
using a form like the football helmet or Texas shaped mold, that won't
work. The hex, round, heart, etc. shaped molds are great using those
steps. But when you have an "odd" shaped one, when you turn it over into
the mold, it doesn't fit (it's backwards). It's kind of hard to explain,
but trust me......You have to reverse the pattern on those kind. I
always trace them out on the back of the orginal.
Carolyn
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 20:24:56 1998
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Subject: Brass channel
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:39:10 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb14.23910.0>
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I work in a frame shop. We get a lot of requests for glass display cases. I
had thought about making some with brass channel. But my question is, how do
you make the channel stick to the endges of the glass? I know the ends are
soldered, but whats to keep the middle from being pulled away from the glass?
Also, what do you think would be the largest size I could do ? We have had
requests for doll cases, and cases for wedding bouques. We make the bases out
of picture frame moulding, cut on its side. Before, we have ordered custom
plexie boxes. These are expensive and scratch easily.
Susan
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 13 20:48:53 1998
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To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: stepping stone stability
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:36:22 -0500
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Here's the information for Rainbow in Bristol PA

RAINBOW STAINED GLASS
815 ROUTE 13
BRISTOL, PA. 19007
PHONE: (215) 785-3034 FAX: (215) 785-5453
1-888-RAIN -690 (ORDERS ONLY PLEASE)
OR
E-MAIL US AT michaelh@p3.net
their web site is www.rainbowstainedglass.com
---
>You may wish to give Rainbow Stained Glass in Bristol, PA a call if Bristol
is
>not too far from you. I know they will be scheduling a class on stepping
>stones and Dale has promised me that he would even include the cement part
of
>the process.  I dont know their phone number off-hand, but if you are
>unsuccessful in finding it, e-mail directly and I'll look for the business
>card (i'm familiar with their hours and just go).
>
>
>Margaret
>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 03:07:50 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Guild Library down?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 05:36:22 +0000
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> 	I had a question about the IGGA site.  I've tried to get on the
> library site several times and it always says that it can't open a
> connection to the server.  Does this site work?

Well, it did until I mentioned it. There *is something amiss, you're 
right. It certainly was working when I put up the "Newest Books" and 
checked to make sure they were looking all right and that the 
connections to Amazon.com were working.

Naturally (yet another Murphy's Law), something goes wrong on Friday 
night when the people running the server are gone for the weekend. 
<sigh> So I'll touch base with them Monday morning and let you know 
when it's back up. Sorry.

Albert

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 04:48:05 1998
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Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Lead blood tes
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:14:37 EST
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Monona,
Thank you for all of the information you have given on the line re:  safety
issues dealing with stained glass work.  Question:  when you are referring to
"lead" safety factors, are you referring to the use of lead in leaded panels
or the use of leaded solder with copper foil work?  I have always believed
that the use of copper foil with soldering, 60/40 lead to be far less
dangerous than working with lead came projects.    Is this true? Lenore
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 06:15:26 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: Guild Library link not working?
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:36:59 +0000
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Several people notified me that the link to the Guild Library at 
http://www.aiap.com/amazon/ wasn't working. I tried it 
myself and it was true ... it *wasn't working.

Then it started working!  Why?  I dunno, magic? <shrug>  Anyway, it's 
working now ... I suspect the server people were tweaking their 
system just as the URL was mentioned. Isn't it always the way? <s>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 06:36:54 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:16:28 -0600 (CST)
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Hi guys!
        I am not getting any glassline messages....the server was down, and
now it is okay again no messages... is this real, or did something happen? =
 Meg
 REMEMBER: "Bats bite bugs best!"
    =BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?
  Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace
               apdo. 24-5655
       Monteverde, Puntarenas
               COSTA RICA
              phone 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 06:53:36 1998
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From:         HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu
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Subject:      Re: Pattern Shears/GlassVisions
Date:         Sat, 14 Feb 98 09:00:57 EST
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Thank you for the dates, Charles, for Glass Visions.  Yes, I was there with
my husband both days last year...and yes, Saturday was packed.  Fortunately,
you don't conflict with my parents' 50th anniversary party!

You mentioned having bought a Robert Oddy panel and I thought that if there
are any newbies on here, they should be encouraged to seek out Oddy's
homepage.  When I saw his work, I was especially amazed at the size of the
panels.  They wer smaller than I expected...but packed with such detail.
Inspiring.  Someone probably has him bookmarked, but i don't do mail with
Netscape (QWS2370!), so I can't look, but just search his name on your
favorite search engine.

Dorothy K

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 07:09:54 1998
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Subject:      Re: Pattern Shears
Date:         Sat, 14 Feb 98 09:11:29 EST
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yup, Oak tag is poster board.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 08:15:47 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:25:55 -0600
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------60BE1A9B1DDA
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I just surfed around and found his page...it's
http://www.servtech.com/public/rnoddy/

--------------60BE1A9B1DDA
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Thank you for the dates, Charles, for Glass Visions.  Yes, I was there with
my husband both days last year...and yes, Saturday was packed.  Fortunately,
you don't conflict with my parents' 50th anniversary party!

You mentioned having bought a Robert Oddy panel and I thought that if there
are any newbies on here, they should be encouraged to seek out Oddy's
homepage.  When I saw his work, I was especially amazed at the size of the
panels.  They wer smaller than I expected...but packed with such detail.
Inspiring.  Someone probably has him bookmarked, but i don't do mail with
Netscape (QWS2370!), so I can't look, but just search his name on your
favorite search engine.

Dorothy K

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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--------------60BE1A9B1DDA--

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 10:03:31 1998
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Subject: Re: Pattern Shears
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:12:04 -0800
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RE: "Can't make pattern shears work."

Susan,  I am so glad you asked about the pattern shears! I have tried off
and on, for the past four years, to use the dang things!  I always give up
in total frustration, figuring there must be "better" or "more expensive"
shears that work better!  I now own three pair (foil), and they are all
they same! Next to useless (for me!).  

I am going to try all the things that have been suggested (one last trial!)
then toss them in the yard sale box!  At least now I know that it isn't
'just me'! Thanks again, Susan.

And, thanks to all the Bungi's for all the suggestions. If there are any
more suggestions out there, sure hope you will forward them to Bungi.

Jean Norenberg
jean@lasercom.net

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 11:48:40 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Pattern shears
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:50:12, -0500
Message-ID: <199802141850.NAA05322@mime4.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk



I don't have much use for pattern shears being the type that takes 
the "easy" way and cuts by the "English" method on a light table.

Know some people that use pinking shears and other fancy cut shears 
to cut decorative foil. Can be a great idea for use on suncatchers, 
boxes, etc.. Sewing stores have these shears.

Cutting up, Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow 
Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 12:21:33 1998
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X-Path: fast.net!charles
From: Charles Warner <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Robert Oddy's Site
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:53:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb14.85359.0>
References: <<980214.090742.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>>
Organization: Warner-Crivellaro
Precedence: bulk

Yes, Robert Oddy's work is inspiring.  The panel we just purchased
is small, freeform approx. 13" x 10".  A panda bear with bamboo carvings
on the side.  Those of you who saw Robert's small elephant panel at 
GlassVisions know anyone would treasure his work.

I'd like to display this panel in the store at least for awhile.  Ask
to see it if you are in the store.

Robert (Bob) is such a down-to-earth person that he asked me
if he should come here a few days early in August to help prepare
for GlassVisions!  (He noticed we were shorthanded on the first
day last year.)

For those of you unfamiliar with Robert Oddy;
	the last issue of Common Ground had a feature article 
	about his talk at Warner-Crivellaro last spring,

	One of the glass companies featured his work on their web
	site and printed a postcard showing one of his windows,

Robert Oddy's web site can be found on the "Link" page at
http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro
http://www.warner-criv.com/

HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu wrote:
> 
> Thank you for the dates, Charles, for Glass Visions.  Yes, I was 
> there with my husband both days last year...and yes, Saturday 
> was packed.  Fortunately, you don't conflict with my parents' 
> 50th anniversary party!
> 
> You mentioned having bought a Robert Oddy panel and I thought that if
> there are any newbies on here, they should be encouraged to seek out 
> Oddy's homepage.  When I saw his work, I was especially amazed at 
> the size of the panels.  They were smaller than I expected...but 
> packed with such detail.
> Inspiring.  Someone probably has him bookmarked, but i don't do mail
> with Netscape (QWS2370!), so I can't look, but just search his name 
> on your favorite search engine.
> 
> Dorothy K
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 12:40:37 1998
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From: DMR74@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: New Idea - Headboard
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:33:09 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb14.19339.0>
Precedence: bulk

I got a leaded *window* in for repair I thought would be a beautiful head
board, it was big enough to be for a king size bed.  Most was a  wood frame
with 'small' panels across the top and larger ones just under it.   The
biggest thing would be to make it sturdy to stand up with the frame attached
(lets hope the inhabitants aren't too rambuncious)  or have it attached to the
wall behind the bed and not really attached to the bed, like you would do for
a very large xmas tree.  My dad who is also a wood worker made a regular head
board and cut out an area for the glass panel, foiled, to be installed with
mirror clasps that can be changed.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 13:05:06 1998
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From: DMR74@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pattern shears
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:19:21 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb14.201921.0>
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> Know some people that use pinking shears and other fancy cut shears 
>  to cut decorative foil. Can be a great idea for use on suncatchers, 
>  boxes, etc.. Sewing stores have these shears.
>  
>  Cutting up, Bob
At $20 or more for pinking shears and I don't think they would last very long
on copper foil I''d have to recommend an alternative to them, I always
threaten anyone who wants to use them on paper that I will have their head.
They do have cheap scissors that make scalloped cuts and stuff maybe they
would be more disposable to the wear and tear that foil would have on them.  
My main problem with pattern shears is with staight lines that are intersected
by a design like if you have a diamond backround with a letter inthe middle or
a flower, if you don't cut in the same direction the lines could be off
deb
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 13:43:13 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Monona please help
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:53:45 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb14.45345.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
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Sorry, I don't know your email or I would have done this directly.
There is a post at Stained Glass Biz Re lead poisoning.
Someone answered that soldering irons do not get hot enough to vaporize
solder, therefore you only have to worry about lead getting in your
system if you are smoking, because of hand to mouth contamination.
First is there truth in this statement? And second if there is not,
would you mind writing in at stained glass biz and clarifing the
subject.  Or would you like to tell me how to handle it and I will write
SGB?
I know you are busy and you need this like a hole in the head.  But I
hate the thought of misleading info being on the net, esp. if it could
prove to be dangerous.
Thanks in advance.
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 14:35:04 1998
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From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: (Fwd) Re: (Fwd) Re: Lead
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:26:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb14.112624.0>
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------- Forwarded Message From BUNGI.COM Follows -------
From:          Yegnim@aol.com
To:            glass@bungi.com
Subject:       Re: (Fwd) Re: Lead blood tes
Date:          Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:14:37 EST

> Question:  when you are referring to "lead" safety factors, are you 
> referring to the use of lead in leaded panels or the use of leaded solder 
> with copper foil work?  I have always believed that the use of copper foil 
> with soldering, 60/40 lead to be far less dangerous than working with lead 
> came projects.   Is this true? Lenore <
----------------------------------------------------------
It really depends on your work.  Fume is only created during soldering, so 
methods that use more solder generate more airborne lead fume which can be 
inhaled and which can settle on surfaces.  Usually more soldering is done in 
the copper foil method.  Good local ventilation to capture or exhaust the 
solder plume is needed to preclude exposure during the soldering or to avoid 
building up deposits of lead on surfaces.  


Working with came exposes the worker by skin contact (some lead is absorbed 
by the skin) and by lead oxide dust on hand being transferred to food, 
cigarettes, etc.  There is also a small amount of dust with comes off of lead 
metal when it is worked with--and the older and more oxidized it is the more 
dust it creates.*  Really good hygiene and washing up can usually take care 
of most of this.


The greatest risk appears to be for people who restore old stained glass. 
Unzipping old windows throws lead dust around from corroded came, putty, lead 
paint from frames, etc.


* footnote: there is a personal air monitoring study of workers who moved 
solid bricks of lead and stacked them into a wall for temporary protection 
against emissions from x-ray equipment.  It showed they were exposed to lead 
dust in the air above the OSHA limit!  Even shiny clean new bricks shed 
significant amounts of lead dust when moved. This really surprised me.  


Hope this helps.


Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York NY 10012-2586   212/777-0062

http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 18:52:31 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:10:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb14.161019.0>
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:	INTERNET:summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net, INTERNET:summit-sta=
ined-glass@worldnet.att.net
TO:	"Michael J. Greer", GreerStudios
DATE:	2/14/98 9:30 AM

RE:	Re: Panel =3D Opening

Sender: summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net
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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:32:53 -0600
From: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Summit Stained Glass  (see us at:  http://www.summitstudio.=
com)
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To: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Panel =3D Opening
References: <1998Feb10.91334.0>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
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Michael J. Greer wrote:
> =

> I'd be interested in finding out what the =3D
> commission studios are selling the most
> of percentage-wise.  Copperfoil or lead?
> =

> Best regards,
> =

> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios

The vast majority of our commission work is leaded because ..... well
=2E...  I just prefer to work with lead.  To me, there is nothing more
mindless than foiling (I know, here come the flames), but I just get
bored stiff by foiling.  Seriously, I think there are many more options
to reinforcement of larger panels using lead and a properly cemented
lead panel is much more waterproof than anything foiled.  Also, if a
foiled panel is ever exposed to freeze/thaw, you're going to get a lot
of broken pieces.

=46rom a repair standpoint, a foiled panel is much easier to repair and
the cosmetics that you can do on the repair are much more effective in
hiding the fact that you repaired the panel.  Some of my leaded panel
repairs look well hidden, but not enough of them.  =


Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 14 19:39:55 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: St. Pat patterns & a new Moor!
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:55:55 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb15.25555.0>
Precedence: bulk

St. Patrick's Day is MARCH 17TH
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 15 01:44:40 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
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Subject:  GlassVisions
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 04:16:11 EST
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Dorothy or Charles,
How about sharing the Glass Visions date with the rest of the Bungis who are
also interested in setting that date aside?  Thanks in advance, Lenore.
Dorothy wrote: < Thanks for the date Charles.
P.S.  Charles, will bevels be on special again this year?
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 15 09:17:10 1998
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From: Jeremy Hopkins <jhopkins@toltbbs.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: looking for patterns
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:51:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb15.65110.0>
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i am in search of a pattern of a iguana, possiblu a penal

-- 
Jeremy W. Hopkins
      KC8GWH
http://www.toltbbs.com/~jhop/
 443.775 + mhz 103.5 pl in nw ohio
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 15 10:13:29 1998
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: looking for patterns
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 98 12:41:17 -0500
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Jeremy Hopkins wrote:
>i am in search of a pattern of a iguana, possiblu a penal

Jeremy, go to http://www.stainedglass.biz.com/. Click on destinations, 
then "pattern search". If there are any patterns of iguanas it will tell 
you the name and author of the book. Good luck!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 15 11:43:15 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: pattern
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:17:11 EST
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Hi,
Does anyone know of a Jewish Sabbath table, stained glass pattern that would
be adaptable to a 4 ft. semi-circular window?  I would like things like the
kiddish cup, candlesticks, challah, a prayer book and a yamulke in the
picture.  Thanks in advance.  Irene Mermelstein.  Irenemerm@aol.com  
 
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 15 12:18:13 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!75054.2542
From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: (Fwd) Monona please help
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:43:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb15.9437.0>
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------- Forwarded Message from bungi.com Follows -------
From:          Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To:            glass@bungi.com
Subject:       Monona please help
Date:          Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:53:45 -0800
Organization:  Maiden Concepts

Sorry, I don't know your email or I would have done this directly.
There is a post at Stained Glass Biz Re lead poisoning.
Someone answered that soldering irons do not get hot enough to vaporize
solder, therefore you only have to worry about lead getting in your
system if you are smoking, because of hand to mouth contamination.
First is there truth in this statement? And second if there is not,
would you mind writing in at stained glass biz and clarifing the
subject.  Or would you like to tell me how to handle it and I will write
SGB?
I know you are busy and you need this like a hole in the head.  But I
hate the thought of misleading info being on the net, esp. if it could
prove to be dangerous.
Thanks in advance.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if this stupid myth will ever die!  There is tons of data from the 
electronics and other industries documenting fume from soldering--even at 
very low temperatures.  The OSHA lead standard requires air monitoring for 
soldering operations to determine the amount of lead fume exposure for 
workers in order to establish which precautions are required.

But it does no good to direct these people to the research and workplace 
regulations.  Instead, the bungi folks need a common sense answer to 
counteract this argument--and here is it.


The myth that soldering doesn't create fume began when people who are 
ignorant about basic science looked up the vaporization or boiling point of 
lead.  They saw that it was well above soldering temperatures and 
conveniently decided that this proved there was no problem.


That's as stupid as saying that water only evaporates at 212 o F!  Water 
begins to evaporate as soon as it melts from ice (in fact, there is even some 
evaporation [sublimation] from ice itself).  Lead is just another ordinary 
substance that changes state with heat.  And soon as it melts, it starts to 
vaporize.  And the higher the temperature, the faster it vaporizes.


However it is important to also understand what happens to lead "vapor."  
Unlike water vapor, it is too reactive to remain for more than an instant in 
this state.  It reacts with the oxygen in the air to form lead oxide.  The 
molecules of lead oxide condense into little clumps or particles called 
"fume."  It is these tiny invisible particles that are inhaled or which stay 
in the air for hours and eventually settle all over the workplace and all 
over the solderer.


Granted, they are not formed in huge amounts at stained glass soldering 
temperatures.  But they are in amounts great enough to accumulate in two 
places: the bodies of people who do this work repeatedly, and all over 
surfaces in the workplace.  If that workplace is in a home, the fume 
particles end up in dust all over the house and can build up to a point that 
every family member's lead count will start to rise.


The other place fume accumulates during the soldering operation is on the 
hair, on the clothing, and the skin of the solderer.  This is why OSHA 
requires workers in many lead industries to shower and change clothes before 
going home.  These kinds of precautions are good for stained glass studios as 
well.  At least leave a smock and shoes in the studio and shower as soon as 
you get home.  


And always remember, that the precautions are especially important for those 
of us with children or who plan to have a family.  Amounts of lead thought to 
be safe only a few years ago are now known to affect the neurological 
development of children.  


One other thing that you mentioned was that the commenter stated that the 
only exposure is hand to mouth contact such as from smoking while 
working.  This is, of course an important way in which lead enters the 
system, but lead metal and lead oxide are also now known to absorb through 
the skin.  The research on this is relatively new and the amount of 
contribution from this source is still being established.  This lead takes a 
different route and does not enter the blood stream but appears to go into 
the lymph system.  It is known that people skin-absorb lead the fastest when 
they perspire.


Hope this helps.  


Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York NY 10012-2586   212/777-0062

http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 15 12:51:19 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Subject: [Fwd: Re: beginner]
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:59:59 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb15.75959.0>
Organization: Summit Stained Glass  (see us at:  http://www.summitstudio.com)
Precedence: bulk

Message-ID: <34E5984C.1519@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 07:12:44 -0600
From: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Summit Stained Glass  (see us at:  http://www.summitstudio.com)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-WorldNet  (Win95; I)
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To: Deepshikha Arora <dshikhaa@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: beginner
References: <1998Feb8.17375.0>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Deepshikha Arora wrote:
> 
> i am interested in stain glass painting.... i need advice on where i
> should begin from....

> 2. alternatively can anyone suggest how one should go about teaching
> oneself this craft
> 

You might start with the book The Art of Painting on Glass by Albinas
Elskus.  I am self taugh myself and have only been painting for about 3
years.  So, it seems like each new project I take on leaves me feeling
that there are still a wealth of things I need to learn! 

Break down and buy a good kiln controller, use good brushes and document
everything you do.  You'll save yourself a bunch of headaches.  Also,
Mike and Dani Greer in Colorado have been very gracious to help me
through a few problems.  Nothing wrong with the self taught approach,
but you can expect to waste out a lot of materials just experimenting
.... and that should leave you feeling that you might have been ahead by
paying the fees for a class at the outset.  

Good luck, and keep us posted on progress.  Feel free to email me
privately if you have any questions.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass


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From owner-glass Sun Feb 15 13:15:38 1998
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From: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Panel = Opening]
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:06:00 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb15.860.0>
Organization: Summit Stained Glass  (see us at:  http://www.summitstudio.com)
Precedence: bulk

Message-ID: <34E5AB15.6194@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:32:53 -0600
From: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Summit Stained Glass  (see us at:  http://www.summitstudio.com)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-WorldNet  (Win95; I)
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To: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Panel = Opening
References: <1998Feb10.91334.0>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Michael J. Greer wrote:
> 
> I'd be interested in finding out what the =
> commission studios are selling the most
> of percentage-wise.  Copperfoil or lead?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios

The vast majority of our commission work is leaded because ..... well
....  I just prefer to work with lead.  To me, there is nothing more
mindless than foiling (I know, here come the flames), but I just get
bored stiff by foiling.  Seriously, I think there are many more options
to reinforcement of larger panels using lead and a properly cemented
lead panel is much more waterproof than anything foiled.  Also, if a
foiled panel is ever exposed to freeze/thaw, you're going to get a lot
of broken pieces.

>From a repair standpoint, a foiled panel is much easier to repair and
the cosmetics that you can do on the repair are much more effective in
hiding the fact that you repaired the panel.  Some of my leaded panel
repairs look well hidden, but not enough of them.  

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass


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From owner-glass Mon Feb 16 06:22:26 1998
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X-Path: abelink.com!rbaker
From: Di Baker <rbaker@abelink.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: No Mail?
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 07:57:37 -0500
Message-ID: <v03007804b10de68449db@[206.29.84.160]>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everyone!

I haven't had any mail for a couple of days???? Where is everyone? I miss
you guys.

I am working on nightlights and several people that I have made them for
have problems with the polarized plugs -- when they plug them in they are
upside down! So I thought I saw in a catalog the swivel nightlight plug --
has anyone tried these?

On the topic of the pattern shears: I keep an old wax candle in my pencil
cup and run it over the blades every so often -- really helps! I think I
read this tip at the Meredith Stained Glass web site -- thank you! Also I
find it easier to make small quick cuts and it moves pretty quickly. I was
suprised when I started doing glass that a rotary cutter was not available
for this craft. It would be great to have the rotary cutter for large
straight cuts -- I would think they could layer 2 blades together somehow.
Hmmmm...maybe I should write Fiskars a quick note.


.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._
  /\_/\
=(=^*^=)=  Di Baker <rbaker@abelink.com>
  / ~ \    Rosebud Stained Glass <rosebud@1webave.com>
 ( | | )
  ~^ ^~(   "The Fab 5"  Bogie, Chanel, Sarah, Torns, JB Cagney
       *_  http://www.islandnet.com/~jbrooks/di1.htm

.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._


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From owner-glass Mon Feb 16 07:54:12 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: Free Stained Glass Software and Designs
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:36:10 +0000
Message-ID: <m0y4STk-0000XNC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

We just added to "What's New" on stainedglassbiz.com ...

Dragonfly Software has announced the availability of "The Glass Eye: 
Internet Edition," which allows you to use your computer to view and 
print professionally designed stained glass patterns. The software is 
available free on their web site. Along with 25 free full-color 
patterns (most of them provided by CKE Publications), they have 
nearly 200 additional patterns available for purchase. The software 
gives you the unlimited ability to resize, reshape, recolor, and 
print stained glass patterns, all from your home or studio. 

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 16 10:19:01 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Pattern shears
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:11:41 -0600
Message-ID: <199802161800.MAA03875@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Precedence: bulk


>My main problem with pattern shears is with staight lines that are
intersected
>by a design like if you have a diamond backround with a letter inthe middle
or
>a flower, if you don't cut in the same direction the lines could be off
>deb


Hi deb,

I think I understand what your getting at.

It is hard to get clean continuation of a line through a design when you use
pattern shears.

If you can cut out the section with the design first then you can cut
through the grid pattern from the same direction.... which helps some.

Before I cut up a pattern I decide pretty much what the main glazing order
will be ( leaded work ) this way when I cut the pattern up I can cut the
longest continuous lines in one pass then cut the short abutting lines just
as if I was leading up.

When you are learning to drive they teach you that it is easier to steer
when you look up the road, not right in front of you. It works the same way
when your cutting a pattern line with shears. If you hold the pattern up and
look out ahead of the tips of the blades at the line when you cut, I think
it helps.


A diamond window, contrary to what many people think, is a true test of
skill. Any pieces that are even slightly off will be immediately obvious and
look crooked to anyones eye. The cuts and the glazing need to be extremely
accurate.

As was mentioned in other posts, pattern shear techniques are are hard to
describe, but I hope this helps


Len




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From owner-glass Mon Feb 16 12:23:03 1998
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From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Where is everyone?
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:47:33 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb16.44733.0>
Organization: The Ivory Express
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
I sure haven't seen much in the way of Bungi mail.  What has happened to
everyone.  Have you all gone on strike?

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 16 12:53:56 1998
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X-Path: digital.net!dti
From: Jennifer Daniels <dti@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: New on Art Glass World
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:01:30 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802162001.PAA06991@ddi.digital.net>
Precedence: bulk

--Art Glass World Update--

New Sponsors and Updates--

Old California Lantern Company
Manufacturer of quality, handmade lighting products. All of their fixtures are
made at their factory in Orange, California. Product designs are inspired by
the rich history of Old California. Each one tells a story, combining the
historic backdrop of an architectural style or California location. Visit to
browse through the product designs featured on the online catalog and see
what's new.  Sponsors of the Free Patterns Page at
http://www.artglassworld.com/pattern2.html.

New "Glass Eye: Internet Edition" from Dragonfly Software
Free software and patterns for your personal computer.  This new product 
allows you to view professionally designed stained glass patterns, change 
them to suit your needs, and print them. Visit Dragonfly from the Free 
Patterns page at http://www.artglassworld.com/pattern.html
and download the software and 25 patterns without paying a cent. Along 
with the free patterns (most provided by CKE Publications), they have 
nearly 200 additional patterns available for purchase. Their patterns allow
unlimited resizing, reshaping, recoloring, and printing, and you can do it 
all from your home or studio.

New Bullsheet from Gemini Saw Co.
Check out the annual addition of the Bullsheet to learn about the improvements
on the Taurus Ring Saws, get tips from the Frequently Asked Questions Section
and learn how to win a free blade.  Visit at http://www.geminisaw.com/bull.html.

Featured Web Site of the Week
Dragonfly Software - If you're a stained glass professional or hobbyist who 
loves to design your own windows, then The Glass Eye design software is the
solution you have been waiting for. With this software, you can create precise 
designs that are easier to view and edit than any pencil and paper drawing. 
Visit for a free demo program from the home page banner at
www.artglassworld.com.

It was great meeting some of you at the AGSA show in Orlando last weekend.
Looking forward to meeting more of you at the trade show in Houston.  If
you can't make the trip drop us an e-mail and let us know what you think.
The feedback we get from our visitors is wonderful.  Thanks for your comments
and suggestions and keep them coming!  

Happy Crafting,
Jennifer Daniels


================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================


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From owner-glass Mon Feb 16 15:17:15 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: voice email (off topic)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:44:31 -0600
Message-ID: <199802162234.QAA29771@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Precedence: bulk

    Off Topic

Anyone using Ms voice email 3.0?

Please pmail me if you have an opinion you'd like to share

Thanks
Len


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From owner-glass Mon Feb 16 15:42:11 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Free Stained Glass Software and Designs
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:21:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb16.132133.0>
References: <<m0y4STk-0000XNC@daver.bungi.com>>
Precedence: bulk

	I just got to look at this, and it's pretty neat.  It was fun to
look at all the patterns.  I like to have things like this for
inspiriation, ideas, and for reference.  My daughter's busily coloring
some of the free patterns we copied.  Bungi's own Christie Wood is on
there too!  Wow!

Jerri




On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:36:10 +0000 "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
writes:
>We just added to "What's New" on stainedglassbiz.com ...
>
>Dragonfly Software has announced the availability of "The Glass Eye: 
>Internet Edition," which allows you to use your computer to view and 
>print professionally designed stained glass patterns. The software is 
>available free on their web site. Along with 25 free full-color 
>patterns (most of them provided by CKE Publications), they have 
>nearly 200 additional patterns available for purchase. The software 
>gives you the unlimited ability to resize, reshape, recolor, and 
>print stained glass patterns, all from your home or studio. 
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 16 16:54:27 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Query for  gift box company
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:12:10 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb16.81210.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know of a company that sells gift boxes(to us that do not
have the ability to get wholesale) at a very reasonable rate?
I am thinking about boxes for the cast body hummingbirds, faeries,
butterfly ladies, and free standing angels(6",9", and 12").  I know my
customers are going to be asking for them!
Thanks in advance.
Shirley Balloch
want to see my stepping stones,
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~allcraft/shirss.htm
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 16 22:13:32 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW
From: CWWSLW@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Whoa boy!!!
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:44:51 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb17.54451.0>
Precedence: bulk

     What in the world have I gotten myself into? These are the words I kept
repeating to myself tonight as I cut out my girrafe window pattern. The dang
thing has 155 pcs. I know that small potatoes to some of you, but it's scary
to me.
      I had asked y'all last week about how to use pattern shears. I got many
good responses. By golly, I tried all of them tonight. The results? I have one
pair of slightly  used shears for sale!! Nothing worked for me. It liked to
chew on my pattern. So... I used my trusty regular scissors and cut on either
side of my pattern line. Now, I'm half blind and I still have about 30 pcs. to
go.
WHY DOESN'T SOMEONE DO PATTERNS WITH THE PIECES ALREADY CUT?!?
Thanks for letting me vent,
Susan
(donations for the "Save Susan's Sanity Fund" may be sent to the above
address)
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 16 22:31:40 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: pkelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: New found beauty
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:54:48 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb16.175448.0>
Precedence: bulk

While visiting a gift shop(that had stained glass items in it of
course), I stumbled upon a box of various rocks. Inside the box were
crystals and other various natural rocks for collectors. I found two
oval Agate slices about 4 inch and about 1/8 inch thick. These slices
were highly polished and had such a depth of color I couldn't resist
buying them. They were about $3.00 a piece. One is such a deep fushia
that makes me  think I'm looking down into a mystical volcano. The
outside shape is echoed in the center with an almost whispy white. Parts
are translucent and parts transparent. The other is an almost cobalt
blue and has the same characteristics as the fushia. Nature is a truly
beautiful.

Now I have the challenge to incorporate them into a glass project. Any
suggestions? Has anybody done this before with agate slices?

The next time you are in a place that sells rocks please look for the
Agates imported from Brazil and like me you will be in awe with the
beauty of nature.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows (and Agates) to all.

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 16 23:46:36 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ncscoutr
From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: New found beauty
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 02:03:23 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb16.18323.0>
References: <<1998Feb16.175448.0>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

There is a woman from down near Cape Hatteras who uses agate slices in
some of her work, and it's FANTASTIC! One of the most original
agate-based pieces I have seen of hers is a small, bed-side table lamp
shaped just like a mushroom where the entire thing is made up of agate
slices! Some of them were cut into 1/4s & 1/6ths to fit in between whole
slices so there weren't a lot of large areas of solder in the piece.
Both the top of the mushroom cap AND the mushroom stem were lighted and
could be operated independently. The colors were simply spectacular for
this project too--all earth-tones!!
She also uses agate slices as center medallions in jewelry boxes, but
they don't light up and although pretty, I don't care for them as much.

V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Roanoke Island NC USA
> ----
pkelly wrote:
<<Snippity-snip>>
> Now I have the challenge to incorporate them into a glass project. Any
> suggestions? Has anybody done this before with agate slices?
> 
> Patrick
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 06:14:55 1998
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From: TifStyOrig@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: New found beauty
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:46:32 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb17.134632.0>
Precedence: bulk

Patrick writes:

<< Now I have the challenge to incorporate them into a glass project. Any
 suggestions? Has anybody done this before with agate slices? >>

Agates make dramatic additions to any project.  Just foil and use them like a
piece of glass.  They can even be cut (sometimes) to fit a certain size.  I've
seen them used for a setting sun, or incorporated into a colorful geometric
pattern, enhanced with glass globs and art glass, etc. x 2000.  I use them for
the middle of crosses, and then use a matching cathedral glass and glue chip
(which brings out the crystal in the agate).  Get creative and have fun!

Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 12:19:56 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Whoa boy!!!
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:40:59 -0600
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>WHY DOESN'T SOMEONE DO PATTERNS WITH THE PIECES ALREADY CUT?!?


Hi Susan,

Patterns could very easily be precut. I don't know if its ever been done
though. The demand for any one  particular design would probably not be
substantial enough to make it cost effective. The tooling and the setup
costs are not condusive to short run production.

Every step in the fabrication of your window demands equal attention and
craftsmanship in order to have a quality finished item Susan. If you feel
frustrated with one particular step thats the one you need to concentrate on
the most. I have rushed steps in a project and ended up really regretting
it... a classic example of the "cumulative effect"......just speaking from
my own experience of course.

I am curious how many patterns sold of one design  would be considered a
*best seller* and what is the all time most popular pattern.

If there are any companies on this list that have considered precut patterns
of any volume and would be interested in discussing possibilities, please
feel free to contact me.

Forgive me the one time only spam-like post

Len Alcamo              ( wearing his business hat )
Sunnyside Products   ****die cut specialties ****
Box 392
Fountain City, WI 54629
608.687.9983  voice/fax







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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 12:47:57 1998
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X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu
To:           glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:      Dates
Date:         Tue, 17 Feb 98 14:57:07 EST
Message-ID:   <980217.150353.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
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Someone asked a couple of dates what the dates would be for Glass Visions
at Warner-Criv, and I thought Charles had posted to the list, but I guess
it was to me (heh, I'm tired...).  He told me Aug. 22-23.  I'm sure
he'll make it official once it is official, but some of us have to think
of vacation time, etc..It's too far for me to enjoy driving down for
just the weekend, but take a couple of days off and...vacation!  I'm
thinking of trying to find a campground just north of Allentown, so we
don't have to drive on the highway THROUGH Allentown everyday (the road
is well over capacity!)  Last summer we stayed near Kutztown which
is lovely, but we want to try something else this year.

Dorothy

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 15:21:40 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: test
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:39:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb17.123919.0>
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i want to see if this get's posted, i e-mailed back a few things this
morning, and hav'nt gotten my own mail. so i want to see if this get's
through...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 16:49:00 1998
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From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: "'DMR74@aol.com'" <DMR74@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Pattern shears
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:25:38 -0200
Message-ID: <1998Feb17.172538.0>
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I have bought 3 pair of sheers from "Paper Direct", one was scalloped, =
another a wave line  and the other  a u and v line.. Each was $3.95 =
each.. one was stolen and the other 2 are used.. Hey,for $3.95, how can =
you go wrong..=20
Gloria

-----Original Message-----
From:	DMR74@aol.com [SMTP:DMR74@aol.com]
Sent:	Saturday, February 14, 1998 6:19 PM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Re: Pattern shears

> Know some people that use pinking shears and other fancy cut shears=20
>  to cut decorative foil. Can be a great idea for use on suncatchers,=20
>  boxes, etc.. Sewing stores have these shears.
> =20
>  Cutting up, Bob
At $20 or more for pinking shears and I don't think they would last very =
long
on copper foil I''d have to recommend an alternative to them, I always
threaten anyone who wants to use them on paper that I will have their =
head.
They do have cheap scissors that make scalloped cuts and stuff maybe =
they
would be more disposable to the wear and tear that foil would have on =
them. =20
My main problem with pattern shears is with staight lines that are =
intersected
by a design like if you have a diamond backround with a letter inthe =
middle or
a flower, if you don't cut in the same direction the lines could be off
deb
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 17:19:33 1998
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From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: "'Charles Warner'" <charles@fast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Robert Oddy's Site
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:25:06 -0200
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Charles,
If I missed the post, please post again, I am near Pittsburgh and I might be able to attend this year..
Thanks 
Gloria

-----Original Message-----
From:	Charles Warner [SMTP:charles@fast.net]
Sent:	Saturday, February 14, 1998 4:54 PM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Robert Oddy's Site

Yes, Robert Oddy's work is inspiring.  The panel we just purchased
is small, freeform approx. 13" x 10".  A panda bear with bamboo carvings
on the side.  Those of you who saw Robert's small elephant panel at 
GlassVisions know anyone would treasure his work.

I'd like to display this panel in the store at least for awhile.  Ask
to see it if you are in the store.

Robert (Bob) is such a down-to-earth person that he asked me
if he should come here a few days early in August to help prepare
for GlassVisions!  (He noticed we were shorthanded on the first
day last year.)

For those of you unfamiliar with Robert Oddy;
	the last issue of Common Ground had a feature article 
	about his talk at Warner-Crivellaro last spring,

	One of the glass companies featured his work on their web
	site and printed a postcard showing one of his windows,

Robert Oddy's web site can be found on the "Link" page at
http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro
http://www.warner-criv.com/

HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu wrote:
> 
> Thank you for the dates, Charles, for Glass Visions.  Yes, I was 
> there with my husband both days last year...and yes, Saturday 
> was packed.  Fortunately, you don't conflict with my parents' 
> 50th anniversary party!
> 
> You mentioned having bought a Robert Oddy panel and I thought that if
> there are any newbies on here, they should be encouraged to seek out 
> Oddy's homepage.  When I saw his work, I was especially amazed at 
> the size of the panels.  They were smaller than I expected...but 
> packed with such detail.
> Inspiring.  Someone probably has him bookmarked, but i don't do mail
> with Netscape (QWS2370!), so I can't look, but just search his name 
> on your favorite search engine.
> 
> Dorothy K
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 17:19:47 1998
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From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: "'M. Savad'" <morn@nac.net>
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Subject: RE: test
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:26:05 -0200
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Mike,
I replied back to  " reply all", hope you receive this.
Gloria

-----Original Message-----
From:	M. Savad [SMTP:morn@nac.net]
Sent:	Tuesday, February 17, 1998 8:39 PM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	test

i want to see if this get's posted, i e-mailed back a few things this
morning, and hav'nt gotten my own mail. so i want to see if this get's
through...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 18:49:16 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: test
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:09:20 -0500
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Gloria & George wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> I replied back to  " reply all", hope you receive this.
> Gloria
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   M. Savad [SMTP:morn@nac.net]
> Sent:   Tuesday, February 17, 1998 8:39 PM
> To:     glass@bungi.com
> Subject:        test
> 
> i want to see if this get's posted, i e-mailed back a few things this
> morning, and hav'nt gotten my own mail. so i want to see if this get's
> through...
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
> and My Updated Shop Photo's
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i figured out what i did, i did the re: instead of re:all because of
this new format.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 19:19:58 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Non glass related
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:18:04 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb17.10184.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
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Hi
I am having trouble getting things to post at stainedglassbiz.com   
I get an HTTP Error 401 or 405
And I can't even get through to Warner-Crivellaro.  I get the HTTP Error
405 for that one right away.  
My ISP says it is the site's problem, but I am suspious of my ISP.
So I am not asking for computer advise, just is anyone else having
similiar problems?
Thanks in advance.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 20:52:34 1998
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X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr
From: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Non glass related
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:30:34 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb17.153034.0>
References: <<1998Feb17.10184.0>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Hey Shirley,
You're gonna LOVE this! I tried to go to Warner-Crivellaro after seeing
your post and the site gave me a pop-up window asking for my "Username"
and "Password", then it took FOREVER trying to load, after which I got
another pop-up window telling me that authorization had failed... I
tried <http://www.warner-criv.com/> again and then received the
following message in my browser screen:

> "HTTP Error 401
> 401.3 Unauthorized: Unauthorized due to ACL on resource
>
> This error indicates that the credentials passed by the client do not have access > to the particular resource on the server. This resource could be either the page > or file listed in the address line of the client, or it could be another file on  > the server that is needed to process the file listed on the address line of the > client.

> Please make a note of the entire address you were trying to access and then > contact the Web server's administrator to verify that you have permission to  > access the requested resource."

I even went to Stained Glass Biz and tried to access it through the link
on their storefinder site, but to no avail!

I guess Shirley & I are not allowed to shop Warner's
online anymore, huh? <BG & chuckle>

So Charles, I guess it's up to you then??

V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd


> ----
Shirley Balloch wrote:
> 
> Hi
<<Snippity-snip>>
> And I can't even get through to Warner-Crivellaro.  I get the HTTP Error
> 405 for that one right away.
> My ISP says it is the site's problem, but I am suspious of my ISP.
> Is anyone else having similiar problems?
> Thanks in advance.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 21:48:30 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: pkelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: RE: Non glass related
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:35:41 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb17.173541.0>
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Hello.

Tried the W-C site and recieved the same message as Shirley and VT.
However, stainedglassbiz.com did come up.

Maybe W-C doesn't like our business(8-) .... I don't think so. Probably
just a gremlin in the system.

Well Shirley ... nothing left to do except ...... cut more glass.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows to all

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 17 23:49:48 1998
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Non glass related
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 02:25:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb17.21251.0>
References: <<1998Feb17.153034.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Just got the same as below, wants a user name and password-??????????
Ok whats the secret password??  Duh!!!

Lee Boe

NCScouter wrote:
> 
> Hey Shirley,
> You're gonna LOVE this! I tried to go to Warner-Crivellaro after seeing
> your post and the site gave me a pop-up window asking for my "Username"
> and "Password", then it took FOREVER trying to load, after which I got
> another pop-up window telling me that authorization had failed... I
> tried <http://www.warner-criv.com/> again and then received the
> following message in my browser screen:
> 
> > "HTTP Error 401
> > 401.3 Unauthorized: Unauthorized due to ACL on resource
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 00:49:38 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: RE: Warner-Crivelarro Access Problems
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:25:34 -0800
Message-ID: <199802180815.AAA26271@intergate.lasercom.net>
Precedence: bulk

What a surprise! I got the same thing:

HTTP Error 401

401.1 Unauthorized: Logon Failed

This error indicates that the credentials passed to the server do not match
the credentials required to log on to the server.

Please contact the Web server's administrator to verify that you have
permission to access the requested resource.

What's going on here?

----------
> From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Non glass related
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 11:25 PM
> 
> Just got the same as below, wants a user name and password-??????????
> Ok whats the secret password??  Duh!!!
> 
> Lee Boe
> 
> NCScouter wrote:
> > 
> > Hey Shirley,
> > You're gonna LOVE this! I tried to go to Warner-Crivellaro after seeing
> > your post and the site gave me a pop-up window asking for my "Username"
> > and "Password", then it took FOREVER trying to load, after which I got
> > another pop-up window telling me that authorization had failed... I
> > tried <http://www.warner-criv.com/> again and then received the
> > following message in my browser screen:
> > 
> > > "HTTP Error 401
> > > 401.3 Unauthorized: Unauthorized due to ACL on resource
> --
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 04:16:31 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Thank you all
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 03:50:55 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb17.195055.0>
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Organization: Maiden Concepts
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Thank you all, at least this time I know I am not going crazy!!
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 07:55:51 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: W-C
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:29:06 CST 6CDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
Organization: GSA-ORSP
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I had no problem getting into the  Warner-Crivellaro site this 
morning.  Either it's fixed, or ....

Kaye
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 08:52:33 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: W-C
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:18:56 -0800
Message-ID: <199802181609.IAA08065@intergate.lasercom.net>
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Your right! The magic computer gremlins have been at it again!  At midnite
it didn't work, now, this morning it works.

At least we all know it wasn't OUR computer and/or server acting up again!

Jean

----------
> From: Kaye Sodt <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: W-C
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 7:29 AM
> 
> I had no problem getting into the  Warner-Crivellaro site this 
> morning.  Either it's fixed, or ....
> 
> Kaye
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 09:19:31 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Agates
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:24:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb18.62411.0>
Precedence: bulk

I'm going to be using some sliced agates in a commissioned
piece of a mermaid playing with dolphins.  I'll use the agates
to "anchor" this piece to a shoreline.  So the agates form the
underwater rock face on either side of the panel.  The whole
panel is very free-form (no frame) and is distinctly horizontal.
Say 2 feet wide by 14 inches tall.  I think the agate will perform
double duty by representing the earth, but also the mystical
qualities of the undersea realm of the mermaid.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 09:24:50 1998
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From: jnl <jnl@nep.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Non glass related
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:43:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb18.64330.0>
References: <<1998Feb17.153034.0>>
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I tried this link out and to get in you must hit your reload key. The
link below works fine after hitting reload. If you dont have reload go
to another site then hit the back button, it sometimes works as well or
you can clear your cache.   <http://www.warner-criv.com/>

Lisa
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 09:43:46 1998
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From: DMR74@aol.com
To: 3hounds@usaor.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pattern shears
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:27:50 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb18.162750.0>
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In a message dated 98-02-17 19:25:17 EST, you write:

> I have bought 3 pair of sheers from "Paper Direct", one was scalloped,
another 
> a wave line  and the other  a u and v line.. Each was $3.95 each.. one was 
> stolen and the other 2 are used.. Hey,for $3.95, how can you go wrong.. 
>  Gloria
>  
Gloria, 
I guess that's what I was trying to get across is that the ones in fabric
stores are much more expensive, and to try to get ones that are hobby shears.
deb
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 14:25:19 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: W-C
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:02:54 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb18.6254.0>
References: <<199802181609.IAA08065@intergate.lasercom.net>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
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Kaye or Jean or both,
It still isn't working for me.  I live on the Oregon Coast.  Are you on
this side of the country?
I am wondering if all those land slides in Ca. have taken out another
terminal and if that could be the problem.
I can't even get to Warner's site to ask them.
I can get to stained glass biz, but it will not let me post on the chat
board or the trading post.
So is anyone on this side of the country having problems or (shoot) is
it my problem.



Jean wrote:
> 
> Your right! The magic computer gremlins have been at it again!  At midnite
> it didn't work, now, this morning it works.
> 
> At least we all know it wasn't OUR computer and/or server acting up again!
> 
> Jean
> 
> ----------
> > From: Kaye Sodt <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: W-C
> > Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 7:29 AM
> >
> > I had no problem getting into the  Warner-Crivellaro site this
> > morning.  Either it's fixed, or ....
> >
> > Kaye
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 14:48:55 1998
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X-Path: ccti.net!don
From: "Don McDonald" <don@ccti.net>
To: glass@bungi.com,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Non glass related
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:20:46 +0000
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> From:          "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
> To:            glass@bungi.com
> Subject:       Re: Non glass related
> Date:          Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:30:34 -0800
> Organization:  Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.

> > "HTTP Error 401
> > 401.3 Unauthorized: Unauthorized due to ACL on resource
> >
> 
After clearing my local cache,  I can't get through either, however 
this message is due to a security issue at the site.  Maybe they are 
updating the site and are temporarily off line. I'm sure it will be 
back soon.

Don M. McDonald
Director, Web Services
Chesapeake Communications Corporation
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 15:13:21 1998
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From: "Don McDonald" <don@ccti.net>
To: glass@bungi.com,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Non glass related
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:20:27 +0000
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> My ISP says it is the site's problem, but I am suspious of my ISP.
> So I am not asking for computer advise, just is anyone else having
> similiar problems?

Shirley, it might be your ISP's "backbone" provider that is having 
the problem.  I get through to both fine. Best advice is to keep 
trying.

Don M. McDonald
Director, Web Services
Chesapeake Communications Corporation
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 15:19:44 1998
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From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: W-C
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:49:53 CST 6CDT
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Yikes!  It worked fine this morning when I tried, but now I'm getting 
that HTTP Error 401 message, too!

(I'm in Chicago).

Kaye
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 15:41:37 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Warner site
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:56:16 EST
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I live on the east coast, and decided to try and use the Warner's link I had
set up in my favorite places, since I know that it worked for me before.
Apparently it has nothing to do with your location because my link doesnt work
either!
So the problem is with the warner site and not with your computors or your
servers.
~Alison~
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 15:59:50 1998
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X-Path: ictc.com!bankers
From: "The Bankers House" <bankers@ictc.com>
To: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Agates
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:13:33 -0000
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Sounds beautiful!  Could you place a photo of the completed work on the web,
or send out so that others can see it?

Dale Bentley




>I'm going to be using some sliced agates in a commissioned
>piece of a mermaid playing with dolphins.  I'll use the agates
>to "anchor" this piece to a shoreline.  So the agates form the
>underwater rock face on either side of the panel.  The whole
>panel is very free-form (no frame) and is distinctly horizontal.
>Say 2 feet wide by 14 inches tall.  I think the agate will perform
>double duty by representing the earth, but also the mystical
>qualities of the undersea realm of the mermaid.
>
>Christie A. Wood
>Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 16:05:30 1998
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From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: W-C
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:06:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb18.13649.0>
References: <<1998Feb18.6254.0>>
Organization: Nadine's Folly
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Hi Shirley!
I just tried to get to w-c and got the same error 401. I'm on the east
side of the country so it isn't your weather!   Nadine

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 16:22:21 1998
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: W-C
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:16:53 PST
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[In the message entitled "Re: W-C" on Feb 18, 14:02, Shirley Balloch writes:]

> It still isn't working for me.  I live on the Oregon Coast.  Are you on
> this side of the country?
> I am wondering if all those land slides in Ca. have taken out another
> terminal and if that could be the problem.

I'm in San Jose, CA.  It's okay for me.



-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 16:30:57 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: W-C
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:33:04 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb18.23334.0>
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In a message dated 98-02-18 18:21:17 EST, you write:

<< now I'm getting 
 that HTTP Error 401 message, too! >>

So am I.  I just tried to call their 800 number to see if they are aware of
the problem but they are closed for the evening.  I'll check my e-mail this
evening late to see if Charles or Stephanie have responded.  If not, I'll try
to reach them tomorrow; or, if someone knows them personally you might want to
let them know.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 17:51:58 1998
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From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Warner-Criv site not allowing access?!
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:34:16 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb18.123416.0>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Charles W. & bunigians,

I have just tried to access the Warner-Crivellaro site again this
evening at 8:30PM EDT from the US Sprint Internet backbone, at first it
seemed to come up just fine - BUT I then forced my browser (Netscape) to
"RELOAD" the page afresh and received the following message just the
same as last night between midnight and 2AM EDT:
> HTTP Error 401
> 401.3 Unauthorized: Unauthorized due to ACL on resource
> This error indicates that the credentials passed by the client do not
> have access to the particular resource on the server. This resource
> could be either the page or file listed in the address line of the
> client, or it could be another file on the server that is needed to
> process the file listed on the address line of the client.
> 
> Please make a note of the entire address you were trying to access
> and then contact the Web server's administrator to verify that you
> have permission to access the requested resource.

While this is on the screen, a pop-up window comes up asking for my
"Username" & "Password".

Can this be fixed?? Has anyone else "RELOADED" the page and had it come
up normally?

Ciao~
V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 18:17:44 1998
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X-Path: fast.net!charles
From: Charles Warner <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: W-C; site not working
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:49:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb18.15491.0>
References: <<1998Feb18.23334.0>>
Organization: Warner-Crivellaro
Precedence: bulk

Yes, we are having some unexpected problems with our ISP.  This should 
be solved tomorrow.

Sorry about the inconvenience.

Charles Warner

> << now I'm getting
>  that HTTP Error 401 message, too! >>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 22:16:11 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah
From: Bubstah@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Creative Storage!
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:47:31 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb19.54731.0>
Precedence: bulk

In reply to your creative storage, I purchased a container for nails, etc from
the hardware store.  It has about twelve drawers in three different sizes.  I
put glass globs in some of the drawers, in others I put steel wool, push pins,
small hinges that I use for my box lids, and any other small item.  This keeps
it contained in as small space and keeps your work area clear. 
I too keep my workshop in the garage and I store the zinc came I use in an old
box that flourescent light bulbs came in.  I also have metal shelves to keep
my solder, extra bottles of flux, wire, etc in a neat contained area.
I also covered one wall over my work area with peg board and hang my tools on
it as well as any other  item to keep my work area clear.
Hope this has helped you even a little.

Bubstah@aol.com
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 18 22:36:15 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: pkelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Agates
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:02:41 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb18.18241.0>
References: <<1998Feb18.62411.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Sounds so beautiful how about a photo as an attachment when you finish?
Pleeeeease.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote:

> I'm going to be using some sliced agates in a commissioned
> piece of a mermaid playing with dolphins.  I'll use the agates
> to "anchor" this piece to a shoreline.  So the agates form the
> underwater rock face on either side of the panel.  The whole
> panel is very free-form (no frame) and is distinctly horizontal.
> Say 2 feet wide by 14 inches tall.  I think the agate will perform
> double duty by representing the earth, but also the mystical
> qualities of the undersea realm of the mermaid.
>
> Christie A. Wood
> Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 06:49:43 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Agates
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:29:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb19.42937.0>
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Message text written by "The Bankers House" (Dale Bentley);
>Sounds beautiful!  Could you place a photo of the completed work on the
web,
or send out so that others can see it?<

OK.  Thanks to all who've emailed me to get off my tush
and get my web site on-line.  Since I'm a member of IGGA,
I'm going to avail myself of our free web site service to
members.  Now...which five photos to send to Albert?
Hmmmmm......

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 08:46:12 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Agates
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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:25:26 +0000
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> OK.  Thanks to all who've emailed me to get off my tush
> and get my web site on-line.  Since I'm a member of IGGA,
> I'm going to avail myself of our free web site service to
> members.  Now...which five photos to send to Albert?

I'm looking forward to seeing them, too, Christie. Be sure to use the 
caption form for each of them ... it's at 
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/captions.htm

Albert

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 09:10:50 1998
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X-Path: ceo.cudenver.edu!Diane_R._Morrison
From: Diane_R._Morrison@ceo.cudenver.edu (Diane R. Morrison)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Ruth Glass
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:30:57 -0700
Message-ID: <msg101679.thr-9afbc5.4c4c8c@ceo.cudenver.edu>
Organization: Colorado Education Online
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Does anyone have any green "Ruth Glass". David Ruth made beautiful
sheet glass in the 80's and he made a green that some times had orange
in it. I only need a piece 4"x10" for a bird's feathers and only the
green without the orange. If anyone has some please e-mail me directly,
(since I'm not a regular on this list) at:
diane_r._morrison@ceo.cudenver.edu 
						Thanks, Alex Glassman in sunny Denver
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 09:22:34 1998
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From: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Pre-cut patterns
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:50:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb19.65046.0>
Organization: The Stained Glass Place
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E&H Patterns out of Oregon used to provide pre-cut, stick-on patterns.
Don't know if they are still available, but they were really nice.
Carolyn
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 09:43:59 1998
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From: "Pete Mitchell" <petem@craftnetwork.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: SGB Chatroom
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:50:18 -0500
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Hi all,

Just wanted to let you know that the Stained Glass Biz Chatroom is back up
and running. We apologize for the inconvenience, we were performing upgrades
to increase speed and this caused unexpected problems with the programs that
run the chatroom.  We fixed the programs and tested them to make sure all is
well.  Please let us know if you have any further difficulties.

Thanks for your patience,
Pete

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 09:45:59 1998
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: pattern search
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:28:53 +0000
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I am looking for a pattern of a peacock that can be fit/adapted into a 48x10" 
space.  Nothing has come up so far.  


Myrddn

Solder while the iron is hot
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 13:47:18 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: New workshops
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:45:25 +0000
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New information has been put up on

     http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ 

under "Events." Click on "Biz Buzz" then on "Events" -- the following
workshops begin under "March":

The 1998 Spring program at The Studio of The Corning Museum of Glass
has been announced. You can sign up for classes beginning March 3rd in
beginning and continuing glassblowing, beginning lampworking for
adults (and kids!), flat (stained) glass, lampworking beads and such
with Moretti glass, scientific flameworking ... and more, quite a lot
more! They have weekend workshops in glassblowing, paperweights at the
furnace, beadmaking, beginning lampworking, continuing glassblowing,
fusing and slumping glass with enamels, advanced flameworking
techniques ... and a special four-day workshop that's an introduction
to Venetian glassblowing techniques. One-day sessions on
marble-making, beadmaking, "glass candies," paperweights at the
furance, and core-formed vessels at the torch are also being offered.

For the complete story, ask for their brochure! Contact The Studio of
The Corning Museum of Glass, One Museum Way, Corning, NY 14830-2253.
Telephone: (607) 974-6467. Fax: (607) 974-6370. Or just click through
to their email address in any of the workshop descriptions at
http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ and ask for the brochure. (Be sure to
give them your mailing address!)

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 17:48:46 1998
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From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Myrddn <exotic@lobo.net>
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Subject: Re: pattern search
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:37:20 -0500
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Organization: Nadine's Folly
Precedence: bulk

There is one on page 50 of A Stained Glass Journey by Jillian Sawyer. It
appears to be about 12 x 68 but that could be changed. Also there are
four other patterns of peacocks in that book. Good luck!   Nadine

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 20:20:52 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Chartres Photos - Malcolm Miller
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:44:19 +0000
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Dear Bunginians (.... Dear Stephanie Hansen),

First of all I would be most eager to hear if any of you made it to 
attend Malcolm Miller's lecture in USA. and if yes, PLEASE SHARE!!


Secondly,
Kris (Mighty Computer Guru) has now given the all clear for 
me  to tell you all that the first selection of  pics from our visit 
to Chartres last Easter  are up on my WEB-site . For some technical 
reason I was at first only allowed to tell a few at a time.

There WILL be more pics; there WILL also eventually be text.
The pics are basically from Chartres itself, one or two from the 
Cathedral, a few from our visit to the world-famous Loire Studio. 
The young tall gentleman featuring a couple of times is the oldest 
Grandson Loire.

Did I tell the story of how Grandfather Loire died???
At Christmas 1996, he was working on a large creation of a Dalle de 
Verre design. He had spent months designing it. Finally, the day 
after Boxing Day (27th Dec) he finally managed to finish it and  
started off the first few pieces.;  got them all lined up on the 
design - all ready for the "Up and Go", left the studio, washed and 
brushed up and walked back  across the gravel path into the big 
house to have a rest. He lied down and never woke up. 
We arrived there only roughly 3 months later, so his death was still 
very much felt. We saw the design and saw the work that Son and 
Grandsons were involved in to complete this his last stained glass.

If any of you folks were or served in Berlin during the 1960's 70's, 
you will know the real Berlin "symbol" (other than the famous bear) 
of Kaiser Wilhelm Gedaechtniskirche in the heart of Berlin that got 
totally bombed out during the 2nd World War. A new church got 
resurrected around the ruins, now affectionately called the "Lipstick 
and Compact Church" (because that is crudely what it looks like). 
Grandfather Loire made the fabulous, serene dalle de verre stained 
glass for the new church I saw it in 1962 on my first visit to 
Berlin, a year after the Berlin Wall went up. It was stunning and was 
really MY very first emotional encounter with stained glass. The 
serenity, the peace that the stained glass evoked in a once bombed 
out ruin as a result from a dreadful war, to me then just somehow 
didn't add up; didn't make sense.  But I have never forgotten it. 

Little did I know then,  that I myself would one day be involved in 
stained glass ; even less did I know that I myself would use a piece 
of masonry from the dreadful Berlin Wall in my own stained glass,  
only months after it was torn down again.......
Historically, we sort of all remember "What did we do when JFK died". 
Over here, it was just the same: " What Did You Do When The Wall Came 
Down".
Since the early 1960's I have travelled the width and breadth of 
Eastern Europe and NEVER in a Month of Sundays did I think that the 
Wall would come down in MY Lifetime....
Sure, there are now economical problems, free market problems and 
employment problems. But THAT is another story......( and certainly 
NOT stained glass!!)

A Small Group photo underneath a stained glass canope in the Loire 
Studio gardens shows from left to right Grandson Loire, Kathe 
McDonald (Bungi USA), Elisabeth (Bungi UK), Peggy Johnson (Bungi USA) 
and John Chapman (one of my students). A pic of ME - at LAST!!!!  
(but don't hold your breaths!!) 

My WEB-site address: 
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm

Click on "classes" and then on "Clifton"; at the bottom of that page 
you will find the reference to Chartres. (I myself have experienced 
difficulties in the last 24 hours when trying to click on thumbnails 
to get enlargements. It could be just me. Have to wait for 
clarification until "Kris" comes back from his UK-wide travels...) 
Enjoy! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


Stephanie Hansen wrote:
"I thought 
you or any of you subscribers might be interested to know that 
Malcolm Miller a world-renowned lecturer on Chartres Cathedral is 
coming to Salem, Ma. on Feb. 19 at 7:30pm. to speak at Immaculate 
Conception Church on the subject of the stained glass, sculptures and 
architecture of Chartres. 

P.S. to Elisabeth (spelled it right this time!) - my subscriber sent this
to me because she saw the bit on your reaction to Chartres that you
graciously allowed me to add to my site - thanks again!


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 21:19:25 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Whoa boy!!!
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:09:02 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.592.0>
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O.K.
I have a stupid question. I cut out my pattern.(Regular sciccors) I trimmed
1/32 from each piece. Now, how will I know if my pieces are cut correctly
since they don't meet the pattern lines. Also, this is a 24 x 36 window that
will be going over a bar, recessed into the ceiling. I plan on using a run of
re-bar.  Looking through a catalog, I spotted this copper coated steel
reinforcement strip that is soldered in between each piece. Would this be
better? I would really prefer a piece of glass be installed under the window,
but I don't think this customer would go for it.
Susan
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 21:54:24 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Agates
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:25:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb19.192546.0>
References: <<1998Feb19.42937.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

I use Agate's both in candle holders and boxes.  Due to their thickness
and structure, they do thermal shock and crack.  By pulling a light with
a 100 watt bulb down close to the work until it is too hot to touch, you
can solder them with out so much cracking.  This heats both the agate
and glass, and helps prevent the thermal shock.  Just a tip to the wise,
to save some aggravation.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 19 22:53:46 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lead
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:42:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb19.154258.0>
References: <<1998Feb14.112624.0>>
Precedence: bulk

It has long been my understanding that if you use whiting to clean and
bring out the patina in lead cames, that the abraision of the metal by
the whiting created a significant lead hazard as well, settling along
with the whiting on all surfaces in the work area.

Gary Dodge                Dodge Studio Designs        
www.dodgestudio.com

>
>> Question:  when you are referring to "lead" safety factors.......
>----------------------------------------------------------
>It really depends on your work.  Fume is only created during 
>soldering, so 
>methods that use more solder generate more airborne lead fume which 
>can be 
>inhaled and which can settle on surfaces.  Usually more soldering is 
>done in 
>the copper foil method.  Good local ventilation to capture or exhaust 
>the 
>solder plume is needed to preclude exposure during the soldering or to 
>avoid 
>building up deposits of lead on surfaces.  
>
>
>Working with came exposes the worker by skin contact (some lead is 
>absorbed 
>by the skin) and by lead oxide dust on hand being transferred to food, 
>
>cigarettes, etc.  There is also a small amount of dust with comes off 
>of lead 
>metal when it is worked with--and the older and more oxidized it is 
>the more 
>dust it creates.*  Really good hygiene and washing up can usually take 
>care 
>of most of this.
>
>
>The greatest risk appears to be for people who restore old stained 
>glass. 
>Unzipping old windows throws lead dust around from corroded came, 
>putty, lead 
>paint from frames, etc.
>

>
>
>Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
>Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
>181 Thompson St., # 23
>New York NY 10012-2586   212/777-0062
>

_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 05:24:37 1998
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From: Joni Tornwall <glasqult@1st.net>
To: dodgestudio@juno.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lead
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:17:46 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.91746.0>
References: <<1998Feb19.154258.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi, Gary!  If you don't use whiting, then what do you use?  I know one
guy who used saw dust, but I don't create a lot of saw dust around
here.  Joni

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 07:53:15 1998
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From: CWWSLW@aol.com
To: NCScoutr@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: 6.0s.f. flat horizontal over bar panel
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:15:35 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.151535.0>
Precedence: bulk

    Yes, the piece will be copper foiled. Is the steel ribbon strong enough to
keep it from bowing? Other wise I planned on using a re-bar in the middle. Why
would glass not add any strength? The window would be laying on top of it.
There will be a light placed behind it.
   By the way, I goofed up. This is my first commisioned piece. I didn't know
how to price. The 24 x 36 is a giraffe with 155 pieces. I'm also doing another
window, design not yet determined, that will be 17 x 31. I'm doing both of
these for $500. The customer is turning out to be very impatient. I just
started last week. He asked yesterday when they would be ready. I told him at
least 3 more weeks, just for the giraffe. I also work full time and have a
husband and house to see to. I come home from work, cook supper, do dishes and
a load of clothes. Then I work on glass till 11 or 12. This is killing me. How
can I relate to him the amount of work involved in this? I'm starting to
regret ever accepting this job. Any advice?
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 08:10:43 1998
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>, "[unknown]" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Web site
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:57:50 -0500
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Message text written by "Albert Lewis"
>I'm looking forward to seeing them, too, Christie. Be sure to use the =

caption form for each of them ... it's at =

http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/captions.htm<

Albert;

Yes, I downloaded the form & have included one per slide,
as per instructions.  I mailed them to you in this morning's mail.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 08:23:24 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "[unknown]" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Whoa boy!!!
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:57:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.45757.0>
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Message text written by Susan:
>Also, this is a 24 x 36 window that
will be going over a bar, recessed into the ceiling. I plan on using a ru=
n
of
re-bar.  Looking through a catalog, I spotted this copper coated steel
reinforcement strip that is soldered in between each piece. Would this be=

better? I would really prefer a piece of glass be installed under the
window,
but I don't think this customer would go for it.<

Recessed into the ceiling.  Hmmm.  As in a ceiling light?
If so, then I would definately go with rebar and not just the
copper coated steel reinforcement strip.  I would think you
need something external to the panel which can span the
entire width of the panel and extend beyond into the wood.

I do have some concerns as to safety on this panel.  Will
there be people walking under it?  If so, then you MUST
build it in the safest way possible.  Consult with a building
inspector as to the building codes for this sort of thing.  Better
to not get yourself in trouble because your construction
doesn't meet building codes.

Considering I've never done this sort of installation, these
are just my thoughts.  Perhaps pj friend can help out here,
as her studio does architectural installations for a living.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 08:52:35 1998
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From: DMR74@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: I figured out the Strike-Through in E-Mail
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:58:34 EST
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this is from a tip on AOL on how to use strike through it seems when someone
maybe does a snipe abbriviated with the <> and just an s in it us aol people
get a strike through in our mail and maybe some other mail formats too
In a message dated 98-02-20 05:58:00 EST, you write:

> Unlike the other types of text formatting on AOL, to create strikethrough 
> text you have to manually enter an HTML command code. This sounds 
> suspiciously like work, but actually, the HTML command is pretty simple. A 
> basic HTML command consists of a letter or word enclosed in angle brackets:
< 
> >. To create a strikethrough command you'd put the letter "S" in between the
> brackets. To turn off the command you, would type "/S" between the brackets.
> It's just that easy.
>  
>  AOL will interpret and execute the HTML command when an e-mail is sent, so
you 
> won't see the strikethrough text -- only your recipient will. (This also 
> means I can't show you the real strike-through command here -- AOL will 
> execute the command and hide the code from you. But then, I'm telling you 
> about it. You can take it from here.)
>  
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 09:21:43 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: 6.0s.f. flat horizontal over bar panel
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:40:45 -0600
Message-ID: <199802201629.KAA25250@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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-->   By the way, I goofed up.  I didn't know
>how to price. The 24 x 36 is a giraffe with 155 pieces. I'm also doing
another
>window, design not yet determined, that will be 17 x 31. I'm doing both of
>these for $500.

How
>can I relate to him the amount of work involved in this? I'm starting to
>regret ever accepting this job. Any advice?


Yeah...tell him he misunderstood.The price is 500.00 EACH

One of two things will happen:

1) He'll tell you to forget it and you'll be off the hook
2) you'll get a decent price for your work and he'll find some value in his
wait


50 bucks a square foot is way cheap (in my opinion) even starting out

Len







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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 11:20:48 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Advice!!!
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:51:59, -0500
Message-ID: <199802201851.NAB02172@mime4.prodigy.com>
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>regret ever accepting this job. Any advice?

>Yeah...tell him he misunderstood.The price is 500.00 EACH
>One of two things will happen:
>1) He'll tell you to forget it and you'll be off the hook
>2) you'll get a decent price for your work and he'll find some value 
in his
>wait. 50 bucks a square foot is way cheap (in my opinion) even 
starting out
>Len

This commission was not started on terms that are reasonable for 
either party. It would be best if it was either properly set up or 
cancelled at this stage. 
Bob



____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, (Sandblast it 
dammit!)26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 11:44:10 1998
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X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio
From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: 6.0s.f. flat horizontal over bar panel
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:05:48 +0000
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At 10:15 20/02/98 EST, Susan wrote:
>The customer is turning out to be very impatient.  How can I relate to him
>the amount of work involved in this? I'm starting to regret ever accepting
>this job. Any advice?

Have you explained just what is involved in making the panel to your customer?
Why not invite him to drop in and watch you for an hour or so one evening?
If you actually show him how long it takes physically to cut, grind and foil
say 5 pieces of glass, he can work out how long it will have taken you to do
the same for 155 pieces before you are even in the position to solder then
clean and finish off just one panel.
We have found in a similar case that involving the customers made them more
appreciative of the amount of work we were undertaking for them and were
less critical of the long time factor involved.
Elizabeth & Sam Law
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 11:56:05 1998
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Agates
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:21:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.92110.0>
References: <<34ED13DA.C9D5D33E@home.com>>
Organization: @Home Network
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I use Agate's both in candle holders and boxes.  Due to their thickness
and structure, they do thermal shock and crack, more so than glass.  By
pulling a light with
a 100 watt bulb down close to the work until it is too hot to touch, you
can solder them without so much cracking.  This heats both the agate
and glass, and helps prevent the thermal shock.  Just a tip to the wise,
to save some aggravation.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 12:23:25 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: New stuff online
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:38:33 +0000
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New information has been put up on

     http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ 

under "Events." Click on "Biz Buzz" then on "Events" -- the following
workshops begin under "March":

Habatat Galleries' 26th Annual Invitational, see April 6
Work by Ritter and Powell at Habatat, see March 6


Even better news is that Connected Lines software -- the publisher of
the new Windows95-compatible pattern-making software and patterns --
is the Guild's newest Supporting Supplier! Members of the Guild get a
10% discount on the software, so show them your membership card, get
the discount ... and be sure to say "Thanks!"

(There are now 57 companies who are Supporting Suppliers, offering
discounts of up to fifty percent off to IGGA members.)  Take a look at
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/suppsupp.htm

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 12:51:04 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison
From: ItsAlison@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:38:04 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.19384.0>
Precedence: bulk

Since bungi seemed a little slow, thought I would toss a question out there. 
Besides a Digital camera........has anyone found a great camera for taking
pictures of stained glass?  You know, a camera you have ,that just seems to
work better than others for this purpose.  And what about zoom lenses? Are
they a plus for detail?  ~Alison~

PS. If this has already been discussed here, somehow I missed it
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 12:56:13 1998
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From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com>
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Subject: (Fwd) Re: Lead
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:51:22 -0500
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------- Forwarded Message from bungi.com Follows -------
From:          dodgestudio@juno.com
To:            glass@bungi.com
Subject:       Re: Lead
Date:          Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:42:58 -0500

It has long been my understanding that if you use whiting to clean and
bring out the patina in lead cames, that the abraision of the metal by
the whiting created a significant lead hazard as well, settling along
with the whiting on all surfaces in the work area.

Gary Dodge                Dodge Studio Designs        
www.dodgestudio.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Absolutely.  Any cleaner rubbed on the lead that is a powder or dries to a 
powder will do this. 

Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist
Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York NY 10012-2586   212/777-0062

http://www.caseweb.com/acts/
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 13:23:44 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: commissions
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:43:20 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.44320.0>
Precedence: bulk

Do the commissions with a "good" attitude, and as promptly as possible.
LEARN from it!
Keep a time clock running to see how long it took.
Make realistic promises for completion times. (always go longer).
If you had priced the work a lot higher, do you feel you still would have
got the windows?
Go high when pricing ( I quote a ball park figure of $300 PER SQ/FT). This
can be reduced if necessary, or the job is easier once you have gotten a
look at it.

If you took money up front, your budding reputation maybe at stake if you
renege.
Finally, do not give up your day job...


enjoy, H


weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 13:44:17 1998
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From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Reinforcements
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:02:31 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.21231.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone....are there any guidelines on when you should use re-bar instead
of the copper strips that fit in between foiled pieces or came pieces. Does
the 'shape' of the object matter?   Thanks.

Margaret

"Life only has 2 rules; Rule #1 - don't quit...Rule #2 - always refer to rule
#1" -- Duke Ellington
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 14:04:10 1998
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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Goof up,
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:00:51 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.5051.0>
Precedence: bulk

 Anonymous said
	 By the way, I goofed up.  I didn't know how to price. The 24 x 36 is a 
giraffe with 155 pieces. I'm also doing another window, design not yet 
determined, that will be 17 x 31. I'm doing both of these for $500. The 
customer is turning out to be very impatient. I just started last week. I'm 
starting to regret ever accepting this job.

My reply
	Well, several others have already given you the word, you are giving them 
away!  For my work I would not have charged less than $1,000 EACH. that 
does not include any extras like installation, special overhead 
preparations, design, delivery etc.. You don't do anyone a favour by 
charging so little. You will quickly get discouraged and he will not 
appreciate the value of the work. I realize you are just starting out, but 
and are not likely justified to charge as an established studio, but you 
don't want to end up paying someone to take your work!! In the fall there 
were some discussions re pricing and you would be well to check the 
archives. I will send you my system, but there are many ways to approach 
pricing. As far as his impatience, tell him to get over it or he will lose 
the deal of a life time. And tell him there will be an extra charge for the 
overhead or tell him to install and re-enforce it himself, if you do it and 
it fails he could sue!!
Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 14:13:17 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ncscoutr
From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: CWWSLW@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: 6.0s.f. flat horizontal over bar panel
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:57:59 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.75759.0>
References: <<1998Feb20.151535.0>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Susan,
I thought about your question on the strength of a single sheel of glass
to hold up about 40-50 lbs of art glass, copper foiling, steel, and
solder; and, I have a question for you: Have you ever tried to carry 6
square foot sheet of glass flat/horizontal? The strength of glass is
when it is vertical/90 degrees to a flat surface. It becomes
structurally weaker as a single piece if you lay it flat. Even if you
used double-strength glass, for EXTREME liability reasons I wouldn't
consider anything less than TEMPERED SAFETY glass as a protective sheet.
If someone gets sliced to ribbons from that 6 s.f. sheet of float glass
accidentally breaking, you could very well face a massive lawsuit since
as a paid professional you are presenting yourself as knowledgeable in
the installation of a piece like this; otherwise you wouldn't have
accepted it. I'm NOT trying to offend you, or scare you to death, but in
this day & age where everyone seems to be suing, (and WINNING!) for
every little thing under the sun right down to the overly hot coffee
served at McDonald's, it pays to go an extra INTH to protect yourself
and your family from being taken to the proverbial 'cleaners' just over
installing a little stained glass in someone's home. I don't install
mine unless I KNOW exactly how to safely & professionally install it-
otherwise I hire my husband's building company or a local cabinet shop
to consult & sometimes to even install it for me. That way the liability
is on THEM, not on me (or my family since I am a sole proprietorship.)

As for your doubts about pricing, Art Glass World gives the following
specifications on their Web site:
$1.25 - $1.50 USD per piece
   depending upon the difficulty
   of the cuts/size of the pieces
PLUS
$50-$70 USD per square foot
   depending upon the type/expense
   for the glass being used

So a simple all straight-cut, 12" square, 10-piece panel made of
something like Spectrum cathedral or plain glue-chip would be priced
very simply at $62.50 USD retail (no tax added yet)
$1.25       $50.00
  X10 pcs      X 1 sf
-----       ------
12.50   +    50.00   = $62.50

Alternately, the same panel using all tightly curved cuts, 20 pcs., and
Lambert's reproduction glass would run about $100.00 instead -
$1.50       $70.00
  X20          X 1
-----       ------
 30.00  +    70.00  = $100.00  

This runs pretty close to the national average for pricing from what I
have heard, but you have to also take into account your
rural/metropolitan area, per capita income, marketability. etc. It's
juast about what is charged for quality work in my area too.

Hope this helps you out some, and please don't think that I'm getting on
you or anything-I just want to see my fellow glassaholics do well and
succeed! <GRIN>

V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
> ----
CWWSLW@aol.com wrote:
> 
>     Yes, the piece will be copper foiled. Is the steel ribbon strong enough to
> keep it from bowing? Other wise I planned on using a re-bar in the middle. Why
> would glass not add any strength? The window would be laying on top of it.
> There will be a light placed behind it.
>    By the way, I goofed up. This is my first commisioned piece. I didn't know
> how to price. The 24 x 36 is a giraffe with 155 pieces. I'm also doing another
> window, design not yet determined, that will be 17 x 31. I'm doing both of
> these for $500. The customer is turning out to be very impatient. I just
> started last week. He asked yesterday when they would be ready. I told him at
> least 3 more weeks, just for the giraffe. I also work full time and have a
> husband and house to see to. I come home from work, cook supper, do dishes and
> a load of clothes. Then I work on glass till 11 or 12. This is killing me. How
> can I relate to him the amount of work involved in this? I'm starting to
> regret ever accepting this job. Any advice?
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 15:11:42 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: ItsAlison@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:37:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.12371.0>
References: <<1998Feb20.19384.0>>
Precedence: bulk

ItsAlison@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Since bungi seemed a little slow, thought I would toss a question out there.
> Besides a Digital camera........has anyone found a great camera for taking
> pictures of stained glass?  You know, a camera you have ,that just seems to
> work better than others for this purpose.  And what about zoom lenses? Are
> they a plus for detail?  ~Alison~
> 
> PS. If this has already been discussed here, somehow I missed it
> ----

i have a IQ Zoom 160 from pentax, it so far is the best camera i've ever
used. it's fully automatic, has a 160mm zoom on it, and inifinte macro.
and the way the flash is designed, i get no glare on the glass at all... 
which really suprised me, usually i'll get a small hot spot. but when i
was on vacation, i took some pictures of some clocks in glass cabinets.
i took them at angles, overhead and straight on, and everyone came out
clear with no glare at all.

---Mike Savad



-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 15:24:49 1998
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X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw
From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:39:47 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.103947.0>
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I never had any luck using cameras..Pictures either came out to dark or with
to much glare...Now I use my camcorder and Snappy video digitizer.... If I
want a picture of installed work I take my notebook computer,camcorder and
snappy to the site as you get a better pic with a direct feed versus off of
tape..

Byron...

-----Original Message-----
From: ItsAlison@aol.com <ItsAlison@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, February 20, 1998 6:56 AM
Subject: best camera for photographing glass


>Since bungi seemed a little slow, thought I would toss a question out
there.
>Besides a Digital camera........has anyone found a great camera for taking
>pictures of stained glass?  You know, a camera you have ,that just seems to
>work better than others for this purpose.  And what about zoom lenses? Are
>they a plus for detail?  ~Alison~
>
>PS. If this has already been discussed here, somehow I missed it


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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 16:01:01 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Copy of: Re: 6.0s.f. flat horizontal over bar panel
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:22:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.132236.0>
Precedence: bulk


---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:   Michael J. Greer, 105715,1412
TO:     INTERNET:CWWSLW@aol.com, INTERNET:CWWSLW@aol.com
DATE:   2/20/98 12:10 PM

RE:     Copy of: Re: 6.0s.f. flat horizontal over bar panel

First of all, you're charging about half =

what you should be charging.  Think
$100 square foot or $4/pc. minimum.  If it's
an original design or with lots of pieces,
curvy cuts, glass painting, etc., the price
goes up.  Also, consider as objectively as
you can, your own abilities.  If your
craftsmanship is crisp, price accordingly.
I can't remember the last time our delivery
time was less than six weeks.  You might
sweetly suggest to your customer that because
you're working out of your home and just =

starting out, that your prices are half and your =

delivery time about the same as a pro shop.
If worse comes to worse, you can always offer
to refund his deposit, too.   No point in letting
the pressure kill you.  Commissions are great,
but you have to be able to enjoy the process
or you do no one a good service.  Good luck.

P.S.  Great responses from Bob, Glenn, and
Valerie on pricing.  But, keep in mind that you'll
probably charge less than someone with years
of experience... also the price will be lower if the
design is not original.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 17:50:48 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:30:25 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb20.93025.0>
References: <<1998Feb20.12371.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

So Mike is that a slide camera, or does it only depend on the type of
film you use?
> 
> i have a IQ Zoom 160 from pentax, it so far is the best camera i've
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 18:20:30 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:07:41 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

Shirley Balloch wrote:
> 
> So Mike is that a slide camera, or does it only depend on the type of
> film you use?
> >
> > i have a IQ Zoom 160 from pentax, it so far is the best camera i've
> ----
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i use print film in it, i suppose you can put slide film in it... the
lit pictures of my lamp were done with that camera.. maybe not the
finest example. the pictures there had no flash, long exposure, on a
tripod, using 100 film. it probably would have come out better with 400
or higher, but the camera adjusted it self pretty well. 

if your looking for a new camera, this one is really cool. there's a few
small complaints like, it's hard to get a good grip on it, the lcd view
finder is hard to look through inside, and the lense extends around 4-5"
long, which can knock into things.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 20 21:51:07 1998
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From: Llasso@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Stained Glass/Sea Shell Lamp
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:21:21 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb21.52121.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello,

I'm searching the internet trying to find examples of lamps done with sea
shells AND stained glass.  I saw one in a store in Atlanta and it was
absolutely beautiful.  Any idea where I can view these online?

Your help is appreciated.

Thanks!
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 21 07:54:50 1998
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From: CWWSLW@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: 6.0s.f. flat horizontal over bar panel
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:21:44 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb21.152144.0>
Precedence: bulk

   Thanks so much for your reply. I appreciate your being up front with me.
Today I am going to a glass studio to buy more supplies. This place has been
in business for 40 years. I will show him my pattern, etc. and ask his
opinion.
    I had already told this guy I would do it. In fact, I have about 75 pieces
cut for it. BUT, I would eat all that ( save the window for myself, maybe I
could learn to like giraffes), and tell him I can't after all. I know this
would make me look bad for accepting it in the first place, but better safe
than sorry, eh?
Thanks again,
Susan
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 21 10:25:17 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!jkeane
From: Hee Sun Stained Glass <jkeane@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Lamp repair
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:08:53 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980221130853.00709a00@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

	
We have a customer who has an antique lamp shade, one piece white with
floral decorations on it.  She is trying to locate someone to repair it.......
Any one have any ideas.  It looks like it was probably blown.





Thanks.
Robert &  Jeanne Keane
Hee Sun Stained Glass 
"Bestow Pleasure"
 17 Main Street
Reisterstown, MD 21136	 
410-833-3007

jkeane@erols.com

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 21 10:56:25 1998
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From: "Douglas R. Terry" <dterry@oregontrail.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Build Your Own Stress-a-meter
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:28:53 -0800
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Precedence: bulk

Are you using different glasses to fuse or blow and need to test them for
compatibility. 
 Here's how I built a visual stress meter.  To start with, you need to
order some polorized plastic film from American Science and Surplus (it's
$7.50 a ft.).  They have a web page at www.sciplus.com   I got stock number
20395 which is grey polorized film 13" wide.  One foot is enough for a
small one - I got two feet.  Just lay one piece on a light table, put on
the test strip of fused glass, turn on the light, hold the other sheet over
it and turn  90 degrees and the stress shines out nice and bright.  The
plastic is cutable with scissors if you want to stick it in the front of a
large flashlight like some of the commercial ones are.
Hope this helps someone.
	Doug Terry

P.S. I have no connection with American surplus.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 21 11:25:38 1998
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X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass
From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Whoa boy!!!
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:56:32 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802211856.NAA29325@water.waterw.com>
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>Message text written by Susan:
>>Also, this is a 24 x 36 window that
>will be going over a bar, recessed into the ceiling. I plan on using a ru=
>n
>of
>re-bar.  Looking through a catalog, I spotted this copper coated steel
>reinforcement strip that is soldered in between each piece. Would this be=
>
>better? I would really prefer a piece of glass be installed under the
>window,
>but I don't think this customer would go for it.<

Susan.

24x36 is not that large..........I need to know more about the installation
before I can
direct you anywhere.

What exactly is this panel going into?  Recessed into what...... a big hole
in the ceiling a lighting fixture or what?
If you still need help let me know.  Sorry it took so long to reply....I saw
Christie mention my name........ and I would love to help but telling me
that you are going to recess this panel into the ceiling means nothing to me. 

While on the subject I find that some of the questions people pop out there
aren't just enough details to really give a truly correct answer.
For example I see that someone has a lamp repair. Be nice to know what is
wrong with the lamp that needs to be repaired. I could give you a million
scenerios and if this lamp can be repaired..  Just my opinion.

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 21 11:44:10 1998
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Goof up,
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:05:32 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802211905.OAA29668@water.waterw.com>
Precedence: bulk

> Anonymous said
>	 By the way, I goofed up.  I didn't know how to price. The 24 x 36 is a 
>giraffe with 155 pieces. I'm also doing another window, design not yet 
>determined, that will be 17 x 31. I'm doing both of these for $500. The 
>customer is turning out to be very impatient. I just started last week. I'm 
>starting to regret ever accepting this job.
>
Opps!

Worst thing that can happen when doing a job????  Regret.
Try to remember this is all a learning process and whatever happens
is a lesson. The next commission you will be that far ahead knowing what you
now know.

I also am interested as to how you can charge for a window that hasn't yet
been designed?  I think you need to sit down and write yourself some
guideline!!!!

Impatient clients are part of the business.  If you don't learn to handle
them now you are in for alot more than regret.

my best,
pj (who would gladly trade impatient clients)

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 21 13:34:52 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Impatient clients
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 15:56:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb21.105649.0>
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Hi pj-

And then there are impatient clients
like me who is wondering what =

happened to the bevels she ordered
from  fellow bungians three weeks
ago!  Of course, I'm just impatient
because MY clients are breathing down
my neck, too, and I can't give them
any time frame because my bevelers
won't return my calls!  So here's a
tip from an old hand who's pretty good
in the customer service department. =

Stay in regular touch with your clients,
be up-front with them, and they'll likely
be a little less impatient.   They might
even act downright understanding.
It's being left in the dark that's the pits!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios  =


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From owner-glass Sat Feb 21 17:53:20 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Fwd: Re: Goof up,
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 98 20:18:55 -0500
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pj wrote:
>Worst thing that can happen when doing a job????  Regret.
Try to remember this is all a learning process and whatever happens
is a lesson. The next commission you will be that far ahead knowing what 
you
now know.

I also am interested as to how you can charge for a window that hasn't yet
been designed?  I think you need to sit down and write yourself some
guideline!!!!

Impatient clients are part of the business.  If you don't learn to handle
them now you are in for alot more than regret.

my best,
pj (who would gladly trade impatient clients)

Suzanne comments:

pj, really good answer! I think we all went through one variation or 
another of this, either the impatient client or the cheap one (or both 
rolled into one).

One question: What would you trade some impatient clients for??? I have a 
couple, what will you give me? (s)




Suzanne Albright
suzy@comcat.com


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From owner-glass Sat Feb 21 18:11:09 1998
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From: CWWSLW@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: 6.0s.f. flat horizontal over bar panel
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:19:08 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb22.1198.0>
Precedence: bulk

P.J.
   okay, this window will be installed in  a 1/2 wall (ceiling) over a bar. It
is really hard to explain. It is a wood structure that is about 5 ft by 10 ft.
They have a carpenter that will be installing the window. This will entail
cutting through, inserting panel and trimming it out. I believe they will be
putting some sort of light behind it.
   If it helps, the pattern is from Valee studios. It is a giraffe head and
leaves.
I talked to a guy today that showed me where to reinforce. I have never had to
do this before, so I guess I'll just take one step at a time. If I feel too
intimadated by it, I'll get a pro to reinforce it for me. He suggested rebar,
but it would run along behind some of the branches in the pattern. I will have
to intersect some of it. He also said that I might put a piece of tempered
safety glass over it to be extra safe.
   Hope this is enough info for you. I'm sure the bungi's are tired of reading
about this dang window and my insecurities. But to all of you, I appreciate it
more than you'll ever know!!!
Susan
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 21 19:25:25 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: 6.0s.f. flat horizontal over bar panel
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 22:02:45 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb22.3245.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-21 21:11:39 EST, you write:

<< . I'm sure the bungi's are tired of reading
 about this dang window and my insecurities. But to all of you, I appreciate
it
 more than you'll ever know!!! >>

I personally am far from being tired of all of the posts about this subject.
I have never done a custom order like this and I'm learning alot.  I have also
learned from past mistakes and have learned to do some of the things that are
being discussed, but certainly learning more.  Please keep me, if not all
bungians, informed of this job.  I too learned the hard way about pricing my
work and unfortuately I still am not charging what I should be
probably.....but getting closer by the order :)).

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 21 19:56:43 1998
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X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca
From: maruca@netaxs.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Johnny West's oak frames
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 22:35:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1998Feb21.173551.0>
References: <<199802211856.NAA29325@water.waterw.com>>
Precedence: bulk


Hi friends!


Here's an unsolicited testimonial for those oak frames that Johnny West
is making as an altnernative to the very expensive frames.

We ordered two of them recently, a 12 x 16 oval and 24 circle. Both are
gorgeous and very reasonbly priced. Patty once earned her living as a
framer. She says to tell everyone how impressive Johnny's work is.

Nice work, Johnny!

Mary


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From owner-glass Sat Feb 21 20:24:38 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Overhead SG window
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 23:01:10, -0500
Message-ID: <199802220401.XAA09408@mime4.prodigy.com>
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<snip>I talked to a guy today that showed me where to reinforce. I 
have never had to
do this before, so I guess I'll just take one step at a time. If I 
feel too
intimadated by it, I'll get a pro to reinforce it for me. He 
suggested rebar,
but it would run along behind some of the branches in the pattern. I 
will have
to intersect some of it. He also said that I might put a piece of 
tempered
safety glass over it to be extra safe. <snip>

Well, I think you should do some bracing. Instead of unsightly rebar 
you might try two evenly spaced pieces of plexy glass, say about 1/4" 
X 2" X 26" that are placed on edge and wired to the backside of the 
window. A couple of say 12 gauge wires soldered to the SG for each 
piece of plexy should be plenty and not be very observable.

If he said *tempered safety glass* then forget his advice. Safety 
glass two sheets of ordinary glass with a plastic sheet in the middle 
like your car windshield. Tempered glass is one piece of glass that 
has been tempered to prevent breaking into dangerous pieces. I 
suppose one could order tempered safety glass and pay perhaps $250.00 
for it.

If you want something to go in front of the SG for safety I recommend 
the non yellowing clear plastic product used in many schools and high 
risk of breakage areas. I think it is called Lexon. A conventional 
glass company should have this product in stock. Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, (Sandblast it dammit!) 
26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 22 15:28:13 1998
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From: maruca@netaxs.com
To: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Johnny West's oak frames
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:15:21 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1998Feb22.131521.0>
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On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Michael J. Greer wrote:

> Thanks for the testimonial, Mary.
> Could you post information on
> how to reach Johnny for the new-
> comers and those of us who will see
> Armageddon before they see the
> bungi archives! ;-D
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios
> 

Here you go! Our generous and talented fellow bunginian, Johnny West, may
be reached by email: johnnyc@mercury.net. 

m

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 22 15:47:03 1998
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X-Path: voyageur.ca!ace
From: ace <ace@voyageur.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: patina residue
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:12:25 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb22.111225.0>
Precedence: bulk

Please Help,  Looking for a solution to remove black-brown residue  from
under the fracture ,  glass by Bullseye.  Panel 14 x 42" with flowers
made from Bullseye fracture .  Now have this discoloration under the
pink and white glass.  Any suggestions short of removing all the
Bullseye.  Panel was to be installed first week of March.
Thanks in advance
Cames

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 22 16:32:09 1998
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From: CWWSLW@aol.com
To: YWAH36A@prodigy.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Overhead SG window
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:04:47 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.0447.0>
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I don't understand about the plexi glass, wire thing. How do you keep it on
edge? Are the wires wrapped around it, or what? Interesting, please tell me
more.
Susan
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 22 17:31:46 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: ace <ace@voyageur.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: patina residue
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:02:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb22.15210.0>
References: <<1998Feb22.111225.0>>
Precedence: bulk

ace wrote:
> 
> Please Help,  Looking for a solution to remove black-brown residue  from
> under the fracture ,  glass by Bullseye.  Panel 14 x 42" with flowers
> made from Bullseye fracture .  Now have this discoloration under the
> pink and white glass.  Any suggestions short of removing all the
> Bullseye.  Panel was to be installed first week of March.
> Thanks in advance
> Cames
> 
> ----


it sounds like the polish residue and not the patina. i would try
denatured alcohol, and a fine scrub brush. a tooth brush should work
pretty well.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 22 19:29:31 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Copy of: Overhead SG window
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:14:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb22.17143.0>
Precedence: bulk


---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:   Michael J. Greer, 105715,1412
TO:      BOB   DUCHESNEAU, INTERNET:YWAH36A@prodigy.com
DATE:   2/22/98 1:22 PM

RE:     Copy of: Overhead SG window

We just installed two large stained =

glass skylights with protective =

laminated safety glass over the
stained glass.  We avoid using
Lexan whenever possible even
for outdoor protective glazing =

because its very expensive and
deteriorates horribly over time -
beyond five years or so, it
scratches and yellows - ugh!  Not
worth the money IMPO. =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 22 20:28:21 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: More safety news
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:01:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb22.18117.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All-

Monona Rossol has been kind enough
to snail mail some more lead information
to me - not only did I learn some more
about lead poisoning, but I also found
out that there is a publication called
ACTS (Arts, Crafts, and Theater Safety)
Facts that she publishes, as well as a
book entitled "The Artist's Complete
Health and Safety Guide".  The newsletter
is $15 US for 12 issues/year and the book
$19.95 plus 3.00 postage.  Call Monona
if your interested at 1-800-491-2808.  Also,
I notice that Common Ground:Glass lists
another book by Monona entitled "Professional
Stained Glass Safety Training Manual" for $65-
that's available through the Guild Library.

Well, heck, if they can't toot their own horns
I'll do it for 'em!  Geez.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 22 20:59:37 1998
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From: NCScoutr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: patina residue
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:36:14 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.43614.0>
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In a message dated 98-02-22 22:52:07 EST, you write:

<< Subj:	 Re: patina residue
 Date:	98-02-22 22:52:07 EST
 From:	ncscoutr@aol.com (NCScouter)
 Reply-to:	ncscoutr@aol.com
 To:	ace@voyageur.ca (ace)
 
I had a very similar problem with a small bubble-opening in a piece of wispy
white Wissmach once that was a result of the junk from the  black patina that
I had used on the  soldering. I was able to use a little 'Pearl Drops' tooth
polish and an OLD (not for living creature use) toothbrush to get it back out
to the point where it was no longer noticeable. Of course I also had to re-do
a small portion of the patina over again as well, but I was EXTREMELY careful,
I placed a little masking tape back over the open bubble!
 V T Phelps
 Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
(PS - I went back and read the title in your original message AFTER I realized
that I had just posted a reply which accidentally got sent only to you... Uh,
DUHHH!)

"If a cluttered desk is a clear characteristic of a cluttered
mind, what does an empty desk mean??"
 > ----
 ace wrote:
 > 
 > Please Help,  Looking for a solution to remove black-brown residue  from
 > under the fracture ,  glass by Bullseye. Now have this discoloration under
the
 > pink and white glass.  Any suggestions short of removing all the
 > Bullseye.
 > Cames
 >
 
  >>
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From: CWWSLW@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: patina residue
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:55:54 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.55554.0>
Precedence: bulk

How about trying a product called "goop -off"? You can get it at wal-marts.
Probably back in the paint dept. 
Takes out stains really well on other surfaces. I would try a patch test
first.
Susan
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 22 23:02:19 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lead
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:57:52 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb22.175752.0>
References: <<1998Feb19.154258.0>>>
Precedence: bulk


On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:17:46 +0000 Joni Tornwall <glasqult@1st.net>
writes:
>Hi, Gary!  If you don't use whiting, then what do you use?  I know one
>guy who used saw dust, but I don't create a lot of saw dust around
>here.  Joni

Hi Joni,

Actually I do use whiting.  I just accept that it will spread some lead
around and do my best to clean up and not take too much home with me.  I
too know folks who use saw dust, but have never tried it myself.  I
suppose the lumber yard would be only too happy to donate some though. 
Maybe I'll give it a try already.

Gary Dodge       Dodge Studio Designs          http://www.dodgestudio.com

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 22 23:29:41 1998
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From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: brown residue
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:31:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb22.173159.0>
Precedence: bulk

Whether the residue you are experiencing is patina stains or whatever, we
have found that a product called "The Stain Remover That Really Works"
will probably deal with it.  We have removed things with it that were
really surprising including rust stains from a cotton shirt that had been
there for years and stones from the original manufacture of a sheet of
glass!  (We also removed a patch of the carpeting on our glass cutting
table..........whoops  ;-)

Gary Dodge                          Dodge Studio Designs             
www.dodgestudio.com

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 22 23:30:19 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:05:22 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb22.18522.0>
References: <<1998Feb20.19384.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Alison,

I would recommend a camera that allows you to set your aperatures and
shutter speeds manually so that you can "bracket" exposures.  I would
also look for a  "long" lens, in the 100mm range so that you get a flat
perspective and, by virtue of standing further from the panel to
photograph it using the longer lens, it will have more even illumination.
 

Gary Dodge           Dodge Studio Designs         www.dodgestudio.com

>Besides a Digital camera........has anyone found a great camera for 
>taking
>pictures of stained glass?  You know, a camera you have ,that just 
>seems to
>work better than others for this purpose.  And what about zoom lenses? 
>Are
>they a plus for detail?  ~Alison~
>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 03:01:21 1998
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X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike
From: Mike Simpson <mike@jackel.demon.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Bevel clusters
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:27:39 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <199802230827.IAA00393@jackel.demon.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

I have recently landed a small contract to supply leaded glass
panels for sealed unit double glazing units. (O.K., it's a lousy
job - but somebody has to do it) Most of the panels are in
variations of textured clear glass with bevel clusters and I am
having difficulties in finding decent bevel clusters. Most of
my regular suppliers have the same makes and these seem to be
made to use with the stick-on tape (yechh!!!) and the glass is
quite thin, particularly at the edge. I have also been told that 
they are cast and not ground, this seems plausible as they appear
to lack a certain something in the glittery rainbowey department.

Can anybody reccomend high quality bevel clusters, prefferably 
available in the U.K. as the 10 to 14 days delivery from the U.S.
is longer than my turn around time.

Thanks for any help you can give,

Mike Simpson.

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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 02:54:47 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb22.185447.0>
Precedence: bulk



-----Original Message-----
From:	dodgestudio@juno.com [SMTP:dodgestudio@juno.com]
Sent:	Sunday, February 22, 1998 8:05 PM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Re: best camera for photographing glass

Gary wrote
Alison,
I would recommend a camera that allows you to set your aperatures and 
shutter speeds manually so that you can "bracket" exposures.  I would also 
look for a  "long" lens, in the 100mm range so that you get a flat 
perspective and, by virtue of standing further from the panel to photograph 
it using the longer lens, it will have more even illumination.
 Gary Dodge           Dodge Studio Designs         www.dodgestudio.com

	Gary the statement "it will have more even illumination." can be 
misleading as the telephoto lens (from my understanding) has a higher 
aperature setting which is a reciprocal and therefore lets in less light. 
Of course when trying to get more light to the film you will have to use a 
slower speed and therefore a tripod and maybe a remote release to steady 
the camera. The telephoto does reduce the "fisheye" distortion and it is 
important that the camera is perpendicular to the centre of the window to 
avoid "keyhole" distortion. (I'm still trying to understand flat 
perspective, isn't that a contradiction? or a paradox? or something equally 
perplexing?{;-)> )
Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada

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From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: brown residue
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:39:32 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.153932.0>
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In a message dated 98-02-23 02:30:14 EST, you write:
Gary wrote:
<< Whether the residue you are experiencing is patina stains or whatever, we
 have found that a product called "The Stain Remover That Really Works" >>


Where can this product be found? Paint store?

Thanks

Margaret

"Life only has 2 rules; Rule #1 - don't quit...Rule #2 - always refer to rule
#1" -- Duke Ellington
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 08:25:59 1998
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From: Margaret41@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Bevel clusters
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:44:56 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.154456.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-23 06:01:42 EST, you write:
Mike Simpson wrote:
<< To supply leaded glass
 panels for sealed unit double glazing units. >>

Could you pls. explain what this is for the newbies that lurk at bungi? Thanks

Margaret

"Life only has 2 rules; Rule #1 - don't quit...Rule #2 - always refer to rule
#1" -- Duke Ellington
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 09:02:46 1998
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Subject: Correspondence
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:31:47 -0800
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Is there anyone out there who wants to just chat about glass and life
in general?  I'm mid 40s, a part-time glass artisan and a part-time
(sometimes full time) accountant from British Columbia, Canada.

Shiela
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 09:29:01 1998
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From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <Weaver51@teleport.com>
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Subject: cameras
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:30:48 -0800
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I have  had reasonable success with a video camera, a tripod and holding the
image for about 1 minute without panning or moving the camera. (I, being my
son)

A snappy to capture the image and put it into the computer (or so my son
says). I have the snappy here and if and when I get time I will try it on a
few different items. My computer and technology skills are sorely lacking
expertise. Glass does not intimidate me, computers, however!

Also for lamps a tungsten balanced film and a tripod and a fairly slow
shutter did get me fairly good results with a Canon 35mm AE1. Long lens and
a macro was able to get nice close-ups.

enjoy, H

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 09:33:28 1998
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From: "Heather Newman" <newman@det-freepress.com>
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Subject: Outside windows and a door question
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I'm a glass hobbyist of growing skill (I think), and I'd like to do a 
couple of major pieces for my 1936 house.  One is the panes for a 
stairway window that I desperately need obscured (no way to wander to 
the bathroom without being fully clothed); the other is a door to a 
sunroom on the edge of the house, for the same reason.

In the case of the window, I'd like to just replace the clear glass 
panes that are already there (8x12 or so).  Can I get away with just 
installing a permanent storm window on the exterior to protect the 
glass?  Do I need to do anything on the interior?

In the case of the door, I haven't decided whether it would be best 
to have the lights separated by lead or by wood (which I'd have 
assembled after the panels were crafted).  Other French leaded glass 
doors in my home just have the lead separating the panels, reinforced 
by what look like steel strips (thin, perpendicular to the door) here 
and there.  Is this still acceptable for modern construction, or 
should I go for the safer wood option?  It's an interior door that 
will never be subject to the elements or wind (other than from use).

Thanks in advance for your help, everybody.  I've enjoyed lurking on 
the list so far.

Heather
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 10:48:07 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
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Subject: RE: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:58:18 -0800
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I think that beyond having a camera that you can set the aperature (or f
stops) and shutter speed manually it's the operator knowledge that's most
important.

I posted a fairly detailed article on bungi re: bracketing, etc. a while ago
and would like to share this additional piece of info with the group.

I've been working some more with my photofinisher re: finetuning my
photographic skills some more, and he's now introducing me to the fine art
of flash lighting using flashes placed at an angle to the glass.  It's made
a quantum leap in my photography.  Basically you need a flash attached to
the camera's hot shoe by a cord (probably 10 ft).  Find a location that is 4
feet to the left or right of the camera and also 4 feet away from the plane
of the glass.  That's where you want the flash to be...you will need either
a second tripod or a helper to hold the flash in this position...either that
or a long remote trip for the camera.  Without a diagram this is hard to
explain, but basically you're looking for the flash to be at a 45 degree
angle to the plane of the glass so the flash bounceback isn't recorded by
the camera. I've found that this really improves the colour saturation in my
photos on the long grey days we have here in winter.  

I'm thinking maybe an article for Common Ground on this topic might be a
good idea...what think you Albert???

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 11:11:57 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Correspondence
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> Is there anyone out there who wants to just chat about glass and life
> in general?  I'm mid 40s, a part-time glass artisan and a part-time
> (sometimes full time) accountant from British Columbia, Canada.

Shiela,

I think you'll find that people on bungi.com want to talk about 
glass, but not about life in general. <sigh> I notice your ISP's 
called "sympatico" ... I'd say then that Canadians are more 
"sympatico" than most Americans, if that's any kind of indicator. <s>

Well, it isn't of course, but you'll find it to be the case here, for 
the most part, I'm sad to say.

(This has been posted as a personal comment from the undersigned and 
not in connection with any responsibilities or assignments he may 
have with one arts organization or another.)

Albert

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 12:13:08 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cameras
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> Also for lamps a tungsten balanced film and a tripod and a fairly slow
> shutter did get me fairly good results with a Canon 35mm AE1. Long lens and
> a macro was able to get nice close-ups.

Yes, the AE1 is my favorite, too. The light meter's dead on in my 
experience. My suggestions? Here they are:

1. Use the slowest film you can find, ASA 25 if you can turn it up. 
The slower the film, the finer the "grain" in the image.
2. Slow film means you need a tripod. Definitely. Use one.
3. Bracket, bracket, bracket .. yes. But I think you'll find that the 
underexposed image is the "richest."
4. Tungsten film is only necessary if you're using tungsten lighting. 
I always use daylight corrected film and no fills. If I'm forced 
to use fills, they are tungsten, of course, which forces me in that 
case to use tungsten-corrected film.
5. Shoot slides. You can always get prints from them, but not the 
other 'way round without sacrificing quality.

My 2c worth,

Albert

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 12:41:21 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Outside windows and a door question
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Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:35:58 +0000
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> In the case of the window, I'd like to just replace the clear glass 
> panes that are already there (8x12 or so).  Can I get away with just 
> installing a permanent storm window on the exterior to protect the 
> glass?  Do I need to do anything on the interior?

Stained glass exteriors prefer *not being covered with protective 
glazing. Unless you have a problem with vandalism, the windows are 
better off not being covered at all. See J.L.Sloan's "Conservation of 
Stained Glass in America" http://www.aiap.com/  The interior's only a 
problem if you or your kids tend to ride hobbyhorses made with 
broomsticks past the panels, cutting a tight corner and whipping the 
end of the broomstick into the glass. <s> Otherwise, if it's not a 
functioning door or a window vent, there shouldn't be a problem.


Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 12:58:19 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: best camera for photographing glass
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> a quantum leap in my photography.  Basically you need a flash attached to
> the camera's hot shoe by a cord (probably 10 ft).  Find a location that is 4
> feet to the left or right of the camera and also 4 feet away from the plane
> of the glass.  That's where you want the flash to be...

But don't you lose the quality of the transmitted light? To my mind, 
that's what art glass is all about: the quality of the light coming 
*through the glass. If you're using a flash or front lighting of any 
kind, you're getting an image of the surface facing the camera, 
rather than the intended manipulation of the light coming through the 
glass and the pattern in which it has been cut.

Albert

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 13:15:38 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Query for  gift box company
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:39:45 -0800
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I just received a post asking me to share the responses I got on this
topic.  So I thought if one Bungian was interested, there may be more of
you.  So here are the replies I got.
> Shirley,
> I get a catolog every month or so ( I just toss it) but it has bags and
> boxes
> at good prices and different shapes and colors too.  I looked to see if
> I
> still had one but don't so next time I get one I'll send you the 800 #
> for it
> deb
> Hi Shirley,
> 
> I have found that one of the most reasonable and presentable
> mass-produced
> boxes for relatively flat items are the ones made to hold small pizzas.
> I
> have to buy 100 at a time, and fold them myself but they are nice hard
> white cardboard, come in various square sizes about one or two inches
> deep.
> I use a coloured tissue paper inside and it looks very nice. These would
> work for your butterfly ladies, but maybe not for some of your other
> cast
> bodies.
> 
> PS. if you can find them, large plain cardboard pizza boxes are perfect
> carry-home containers for stepping stones, too!
> 
> I get mine at a commercial packaging company that sells all kinds of
> supplies to  bakery/restaurant businesses. Good luck!
> 
> Sarah
> 
> Hi Shirley,
> 
> I collect boxes, rather than purchase them.  After all, as a small
> business
> owner, anywhere I can cut costs without sacrificing quality of my
> artwork is
> fair game.  Good sources for small boxes are stationery stores,
> doctor/dental offices or anyone else who sells/uses small items in
> quantity.
> They're often corrugated which is much stronger than the flimsy gift
> boxes
> you can buy.  Particularly I would think this would be important for
> angels
> that are just pulled out for a couple of weeks a year at Christmas and
> then
> stored the rest of the year.  My mom's contribution to my business is as
> chief procurer of used packing peanuts and bubble wrap.  Apart from
> packing
> tape, I've never purchased a wrapping item in the last 3 years.  I do
> give
> small suncatchers to key personnel in shipping departments a couple of
> times
> a year.
> 
> My customers are happy to get a wad of bubble wrap around a 3D object
> for
> protection, so boxes don't seem to have been an issue for me.  Also save
> the
> corrugated boxes that bevels for panels come in...they're useful too.
> 
> For larger panels, build a plywood crate and pack pieces vertically,
> separated by sheets of cardboard or bubble wrap.  That way, if you're
> going
> to shows you have only one large item to load in your truck instead of
> several small ones...make sure you take some cardboard sheets to use as
> sleeves for those panels you sell, though.  I've found it easier to pack
> these sleeves flat separately from the glass, to be pulled out of
> storage as
> required.
> 
> When I was still doing large suncatchers/small panels I used pizza boxes
> for
> customers to transport them home in.  (For this, you need to make
> friends
> with your pizza delivery person or have a friend whose son manages a
> pizza
> joint).
> 
> Sheets of cardboard can be obtained at appliance stores, large computer
> boxes make good shipping containers for lampshades (leaves room to
> double
> box the lamp between layers of packing peanuts), and I also utilize the
> cardboard sheets that are placed on pallets before sacks of dog food are
> loaded on.  Finally...some extra benefit from those high dog food bills.
> :-)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Carol Swann
> Synergy Glass & Creative
> 
> You might try these guys:
> E.A. Dages, Inc.
> 975 Bethlehem Pike
> Montgomeryville, PA 18936
> (215) 699-3501 fax 215-699-3503
> They manufacture paper, packaging (including gift boxes),
> and custom printing.  Their 2 piece lock corner white gift
> boxes are available from sizes 4 1/2" x 4 1/2" x 2 1/2" up
> to 24 x 14 x 4.  Maybe the 9 x 9 x 3 or 9 x 9 x 7 would do
> for your finished products.  They also do bubble wrap.
> 
> Christie A. Wood
>
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 13:32:28 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Correspondence
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:59:54 -0600
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First time to add a comment to this list and I'll probably be sorry I did,
but I must say something here.  I appreciate that someone out there is
willing to talk about glass AND life in general.  I don't believe the
intent was to chat here about "life in general" but to find someone willing
to e-mail back and forth.  I for one am willing to do just that.  

Attitude back in check

Jolene
>I think you'll find that people on bungi.com want to talk about 
>glass, but not about life in general. <sigh> I notice your ISP's 
>called "sympatico" ... I'd say then that Canadians are more 
>"sympatico" than most Americans, if that's any kind of indicator. <s>
>
>Well, it isn't of course, but you'll find it to be the case here, for 
>the most part, I'm sad to say.



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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 13:41:29 1998
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Subject: Not quite sure...
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 98 14:34:29 PST
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Hi,
This has nothing to do with glass, but kinda' does.
I was emailing privately with Mary Austin, until my
computer crashed, and I lost EVERYTHING.  I
am wondering if Mary could email me, so I could
get her address again!  Thanks!

Laurean
Eph 4:32

P.S.
How about some adresses for favorite web sites?  If
any of you would feel inclined to send some? Thanks!

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 14:12:51 1998
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From: ItsAlison@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com (glass@bungi.com)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:  RE: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:22:40 EST
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<<Gary the statement "it will have more even illumination." can be 
misleading as the telephoto lens (from my understanding) has a higher 
aperature setting which is a reciprocal and therefore lets in less light. 
Of course when trying to get more light to the film you will have to use a 
slower speed and therefore a tripod and maybe a remote release to steady 
the camera. The telephoto does reduce the "fisheye" distortion and it is 
important that the camera is perpendicular to the centre of the window to 
avoid "keyhole" distortion. (I'm still trying to understand flat 
perspective, isn't that a contradiction? or a paradox? or something equally 
perplexing?{;-)> )
Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada>>


Yikes! Go easy Glenn........I'm trying to understand what you just said, but
this gurl is used to "point and shoot cameras". Can you put that in some
language that a photographically challenged female like me can understand??? I
know that an object in the window always looks brighter from across the room,
thats why i was thinking about a  zoom lens......but perpendicular fisheyes
are beyond my comfort level, LOL 
Can you tell it to me in language a 10 yr old would understand? I really need
some good pictures of my glass! Thanks. ~Alison~
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 14:21:47 1998
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Subject: Johnny West and frames
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 98 15:24:06 PST
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John has done several frames for us and I can tell you from our experience
that he does excellent work and his honesty and reasonable prices are as
good as his work, and for those of you out there to far away I can tell you
he does all of this with a smile.

Judy Campbell
Campell's Art Glass
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 14:23:06 1998
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Overhead SG window/comment on comment
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:28:38 -0500 (EST)
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ah???/  I don't want to get flamed here but.................these
suggestions need to be
commented on.
Why in the world would you strap two pieces of plexi to a panel for support???
I think whereever you learned this technique should be sighted for lack of
professionalism.
Rebars are made for a reason......please use them.  There is a rebar bending
machine that will make things alot easier.

As for tempered safety glass....I don't think safety glass can be tempered
and a piece of safety glass  the size needed for this installation should
cost no more than 15.00.
Approx. $2..50 a square foot.

And as far as lexon goes......................nothing but a nightmare all it
does is give you unsightly scratches even when you wipe it with a diaper.

Bob wrote,
>Well, I think you should do some bracing. Instead of unsightly rebar 
>you might try two evenly spaced pieces of plexy glass, say about 1/4" 
>X 2" X 26" that are placed on edge and wired to the backside of the 
>window. A couple of say 12 gauge wires soldered to the SG for each 
>piece of plexy should be plenty and not be very observable.
>
>If he said *tempered safety glass* then forget his advice. Safety 
>glass two sheets of ordinary glass with a plastic sheet in the middle 
>like your car windshield. Tempered glass is one piece of glass that 
>has been tempered to prevent breaking into dangerous pieces. I 
>suppose one could order tempered safety glass and pay perhaps $250.00 
>for it.
>
>If you want something to go in front of the SG for safety I recommend 
>the non yellowing clear plastic product used in many schools and high 
>risk of breakage areas. I think it is called Lexon. A conventional 
>glass company should have this product in stock. Bob
>
>____
>Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, (Sandblast it dammit!) 
>26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
>Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 14:56:49 1998
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:30:41 -0500 (EST)
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Carol wrote,

>I'm thinking maybe an article for Common Ground on this topic might be a
>good idea...what think you Albert???
>
Maybe we could get Steve Meltzer the camera guru to write us a really nice
article.
Like he does for the Crafts Report.

Hey Albert.............are you listening??? Want me to make a phone call?????


my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 15:10:38 1998
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Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:57:50 EST
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<< think you'll find that people on bungi.com want to talk about 
glass, but not about life in general. <sigh> I notice your ISP's 
called "sympatico" ... I'd say then that Canadians are more 
"sympatico" than most Americans, if that's any kind of indicator. 

Well, it isn't of course, but you'll find it to be the case here, for 
the most part, I'm sad to say.

(This has been posted as a personal comment from the undersigned and 
not in connection with any responsibilities or assignments he may 
have with one arts organization or another.)

Albert>>

Yep.........for some reason anything other than glass talk gets a lot of
people on this list in a snit. They didnt even like the thread about
purchasing supplies wholesale..just wanted to get back to "real glass talk"
One gal even said she wanted to just stop this talk right now, and get back to
hearing all the glass tips .  Geeze!  A little civility and small talk never
hurt anyone! Just my opinion though.....But I also have noticed that if glass
people are in your same locality they can be  unfriendly and downright hostile
at times.....it was a real surprise to me at first, but I have gotten used to
it.  At least  here on Bungi there is a shareing of info. that is very
nice.......as long as the topic remains on glass tips!    LOL   ~Alison~
 PS. Albert, your message came through with a line running through it..but it
didnt copy and paste to my reply with the line through the
sentences..........go figure!
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 15:24:38 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Not quite sure...
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:30:36 -0500
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Laurean wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> This has nothing to do with glass, but kinda' does.
> I was emailing privately with Mary Austin, until my
> computer crashed, and I lost EVERYTHING.  I
> am wondering if Mary could email me, so I could
> get her address again!  Thanks!
> 
> Laurean
> Eph 4:32
> 
> P.S.
> How about some adresses for favorite web sites?  If
> any of you would feel inclined to send some? Thanks!
> 
> ----



well, you can go to my page http://www.geocities.com/paris/1141 then go
to the links page, and most should be there.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 16:26:04 1998
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Subject: ouch!
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:23:57 EST
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I have been working a panel in lead (my first love), and my fingertips are
smarting.  I was wondering if anyone does/doesn't wear gloves when building a
panel.  If so what kind...  I really need my fingertips to feel teeny tiny
pulses, veins and arteries on my day job...any suggestions?  tips?  (pun
intended).  

Thanks
Maureen
mosfunland@aol.com
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 17:25:15 1998
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
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Subject: Re: ouch!
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:34:41 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-23 19:27:20 EST, you write:

<< I have been working a panel in lead (my first love), and my fingertips are
 smarting.  I was wondering if anyone does/doesn't wear gloves when building a
 panel.  If so what kind...  I really need my fingertips to feel teeny tiny
 pulses, veins and arteries on my day job...any suggestions?  tips?  (pun
 intended).  
 
 Thanks
 Maureen
 mosfunland@aol.com
 ---- >>

On occasion, I've wrapped my fingertips in masking tape, then got it wet and
let it dry on my hands.  Makes it more flexible and comfy and gave me a bit of
protection.  Since I also sculpt in clay and need to have feeling in my
fingertips, I've done this a few times when they were getting too sore.

Susie
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 17:55:29 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Bevel clusters
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:49:35 +0000
Message-ID: <199802240054.AAA04596@pluto.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike, et al,

Bevel clusters made in UK...?!
Have not come across a manufacturer, unless you ask for custom-made. 
They all appear to be imported. Possible short-cut via Germany. I 
know the bevels you describe that the "stick-on-people" use!! In deed 
"yuck"!! The glass at the edge is so thin so that there won't be too 
much of a ledge for the stick-on-lead to adhere to.  I did once know 
where they got them from. Would do no harm in talking to Rega Lead or 
Classic Lead (Now Yorkshire Lead Company) to ask them who makes these 
bevels for them. (Let me know if you need contact name...). Would 
Elizabeth in Bournemouth be able to help? A final alternative, though 
they are NOT my favourite people, TSG on my last visit around 
Christmas had bevels / bevel clusters.


P.S.
For you guys in USA who wonder what Mike is talking about ("sealed 
double glazing units"); double glazing is still relatively new in UK 
and people differentiate between "secondary glazing" and "double 
glazing",; the latter is manufactured as one single unit and is 
sealed to contain a vaccuum between the two sheets of glass (anything 
that has to be slotted in between has to be  fitted into the unit  as 
the unit itself is made so as to be sealed in too). Secondary 
glazing, however , are 2 separate sheets fitted (very often) into 2 
separate frames, both of which can be opened independently. The 
airspace between the 2 sheets is often also more.
Good Luck !
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


Mike Simpson wrote
I have recently landed a small contract to supply leaded glass
panels for sealed unit double glazing units. 
snip....Most of
my regular suppliers have the same makes and these seem to be
made to use with the stick-on tape (yechh!!!) and the glass is
quite thin, particularly at the edge. I have also been told that 
they are cast and not ground, this seems plausible as they appear
to lack a certain something in the glittery rainbowey department.

Can anybody reccomend high quality bevel clusters, prefferably 
available in the U.K. as the 10 to 14 days delivery from the U.S.
is longer than my turn around time.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 18:14:27 1998
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:49:35 +0000
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Hi Bunginians,

About a week ago I came out of "lurk-mode" to tell you that I had 
finally posted the first Chartres photos on my web-site.
I have done so purely in response to at least 20-30 requests from YOU 
lot,  that I should do so and share with everybody.
I wouldn't have bothered otherwise; I could easily have just had 
extra prints made for those from USA that were there on the trip to 
France. In the last 2 weeks I have not heard a single squeak from ANY 
of you, whether acknowledgement, comments, or...anything.
Total silence.
What happened?
Were the pictures THAT lousy?
Lost interest?
Or is now Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK relegated to "delete" mode??
Just wondering.....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 18:42:38 1998
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From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah)
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Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:28:43 -0500
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Hi Maureen,

If I'm going to be assembling a largish lead panel, I usually wrap my
fingertips in a cloth tape, like elastoplast tape. This makes them a bit
more abuse-resistant, but still lets you feel what you're doing without
slipping. Sounds like you might have a good source for this kind of tape at
your day job, too ;-)

Sarah

>I have been working a panel in lead (my first love), and my fingertips are
>smarting.  I was wondering if anyone does/doesn't wear gloves when building a
>panel.  If so what kind...  I really need my fingertips to feel teeny tiny
>pulses, veins and arteries on my day job...any suggestions?  tips?  (pun
>intended).
>
>Thanks
>Maureen
>mosfunland@aol.com
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 18:54:48 1998
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Subject: Re: ouch!
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 98 19:19:48 PST
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> I have been working a panel in lead (my first love), and my fingertips =
are
> smarting.  I was wondering if anyone does/doesn't wear gloves when buil=
ding a

Hi Maureen,

I used to work in a sweat shop sewing blue jeans, and
what we did to preserve our fingertips, was wrap pieces of white
medical tape on them.  I did this with my glasswork, and it helps
alot.  I personally find gloves of any sort too bulky.  Maybe this will
work for you!

Laurean



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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 19:55:21 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
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Subject: Re: Correspondence
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> First time to add a comment to this list and I'll probably be sorry I did,
> but I must say something here.  I appreciate that someone out there is
> willing to talk about glass AND life in general.  I don't believe the
> intent was to chat here about "life in general" but to find someone willing
> to e-mail back and forth.  I for one am willing to do just that

As a one-time practicing craftsperson who felt cut off from the 
community of artists and other craftspeople (and who started a 
magazine 'way back when for that reason), I agree with you that one's 
life shared with others is a valuable "tool" in understanding and 
practicing one's craft and art.  But I've just found that lots of 
people online tend to want "just the facts, ma'am" and nothing else. 
Actually, there *are some very warm, friendly, helpful (and chatty) 
people here, so don't take my grouchy comments too much to heart, 
okay? <s>

Albert

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 20:11:41 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Mosfunland@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ouch!
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:06:27 -0500
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Mosfunland@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have been working a panel in lead (my first love), and my fingertips are
> smarting.  I was wondering if anyone does/doesn't wear gloves when building a
> panel.  If so what kind...  I really need my fingertips to feel teeny tiny
> pulses, veins and arteries on my day job...any suggestions?  tips?  (pun
> intended).
> 
> Thanks
> Maureen
> mosfunland@aol.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i never liked wearing gloves when working with glass. i always need to
be able to touch the glass physically. cloth gloves have no grip, and
absorb water. rubber get's cut to easily, and i'd have to constantly
remove them for foiling. 

for the most part i'll get cut occasionally. most of the time my fingers
are tough enough to withstand the sharpness. unfortunally my finger tips
can get so rough the can cut glass by them selves.. :)

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 20:22:30 1998
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Subject: Subject: Re: cameras
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:38:20 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.123820.0>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Can slides be scanned for computer usage or must one have photographs
developed as well as the slides and the scans?

V T Phelps (who always manages to worry about costs somehow...)
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.

Tell a man that there's 500 trillion stars in the universe
and he'll believe you; but tell him that there's wet paint
on that bench and he's absolutely *obligated* to...

> ----
Albert Lewis wrote:
> 5. Shoot slides. You can always get prints from them, but not the
> other 'way round without sacrificing quality.
> My 2c worth,
> Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 20:37:04 1998
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Subject: Solder problem
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:43:22 -0500
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Good Evening Group,
	I am having a problem with my soldering lately.. and have no clue what it
may be really...  here is what is happening:

I apply the flux to the clean foil and when I touch the iron to the solder
and the solder lines it just pulls... kinda of drags across the solder
line. And peaks a lot but not consistantly.  I can pool the solder and very
slowly it will tin and bead up, but it is so slow....
I have never had this problem before and here a couple of thoughts of what
it might be..  
	The soldering iron is not hot enough..  It is on a rheostat and I have the
setting at 100%.  I have a brand new tip so I don't think that is a
problem.  but another thought I had, which I don't have any clue of whether
it could be a factor or not.   I have sulphur (well) water here at my
house.  Is there a possibility that the sulphur in the air is reacting with
the copper foil and creating a problem with the soldering process?  As I
said before, I have not had this problem before but then again, the piece
that I am working on is 135 pieces where other projects somewhat smaller
get finished much faster and are not exposed to the sulphur air for quite
as long as this one has.  
	Maybe it has nothing to do with it, maybe my soldering iron has just gone
down the tubes and is not getting the temp that it should...
	Any comments on any of the above would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks

Barbara
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 22:21:11 1998
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From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: brown residue
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:26:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.192619.0>
References: <<3.0.2.32.19980223084001.0069e65c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Precedence: bulk



>	Now I am really curious:  Why do you use carpeting on your 
>glass cutting
>table?  Seems to me that would be somewhat of a hazard,  am I missing
>something?   Thanks...
>
>Barbara Snell
>
>  (We also removed a patch of the carpeting on our glass cutting
>>table..........whoops  ;-)


Barbara,
We have one table that is used only for cutting large sheets of glass. 
With the carpeting it is easier to lay sheet glass down and move it
around without scratching or breaking it.

Gary Dodge                          Dodge Studio Designs             
www.dodgestudio.com

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 22:52:22 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:52:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.195253.0>
References: <<1998Feb22.185447.0>>
Precedence: bulk



>Gary wrote
>Alison,
>I would recommend a camera that allows you to set your aperatures and 
>shutter speeds manually so that you can "bracket" exposures.  I would 
>also 
>look for a  "long" lens, in the 100mm range so that you get a flat 
>perspective and, by virtue of standing further from the panel to 
>photograph 
>it using the longer lens, it will have more even illumination.
> Gary Dodge           Dodge Studio Designs         www.dodgestudio.com
>
>	Gary the statement "it will have more even illumination." can 
>be 
>misleading as the telephoto lens (from my understanding) has a higher 
>aperature setting which is a reciprocal and therefore lets in less 
>light. 
>Of course when trying to get more light to the film you will have to 
>use a 
>slower speed and therefore a tripod and maybe a remote release to 
>steady 
>the camera. The telephoto does reduce the "fisheye" distortion and it 
>is 
>important that the camera is perpendicular to the centre of the window 
>to 
>avoid "keyhole" distortion. (I'm still trying to understand flat 
>perspective, isn't that a contradiction? or a paradox? or something 
>equally 
>perplexing?{;-)> )
>Glenn Spicer,

Well Glenn........
I knew that this would be difficult to explain, but I threw it out there
and just hoped it  would sort of slide by.

Here's what I meant.

Imagine if you cut a hole 12" by 12" in a large sheet of cardboard and
place it in a window.  Now stand two feet from the hole and look out. 
You will see a lot of stuff out there.  Perhaps a black roadway, some
green trees, blue sky and white clouds.

If you photograph a panel with a wide angle lens, you must stand close to
the panel.  You will have the road, the trees, the sky and the clouds
behind different parts of the panel.

Now stand across the room and look through the same hole in the
cardboard.  If you stand up high you can see the road through it.  If 
you crouch down low you will see only the sky through it.  From dead on
you can only see trees through it.  

If you place the panel in the window and photograph it from across the
room, you will have your choice of what will be on the other side of the
panel illuminating it rather than having to accept all of it at different
points in the panel.  

..........and that is what I meant by more even illumination......


(Pant, pant, pant)

As for the flat perspective, I was using non photographic speak to mean
an absence of fisheye distortion.

Gary Dodge    Dodge Studio Designs         www.dodgestudio.com

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 22:53:12 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: brown residue
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:30:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.19309.0>
References: <<1998Feb23.153932.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Margaret,
It is a product of Novacan, the maker of patinas and other stained glass
preparations, 
and should be available where Novacan chemicals are sold.

It will cost a premium to ship due to the current restrictions on
shipping hazardous chemicals.

Gary Dodge           Dodge Studio designs       www.dodgestudio.com

>Gary wrote:
><< Whether the residue you are experiencing is patina stains or 
>whatever, we
> have found that a product called "The Stain Remover That Really 
>Works" >>
>
>
>Where can this product be found? Paint store?
>
>Thanks
>
>Margaret

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 23:12:50 1998
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From: pkelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: cameras
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:32:35 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.183235.0>
References: <<1998Feb23.123820.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Yes slides can be scanned. However, you might not want to invest in the
equipment. An alternative is to have your photos put on a CD-ROM or
floppy disk. There are many programs (Adobe PhotoShop, Corel Photo Paint,
etc) that you can use to "Diddle the Pixels"(not an obsene remark... just
computer Geek talk). Looks like you are located in the UK I'm sure your
local photo developer could help. Kodak I know has the capabilities and
probably is reasonable in price.

Good Luck
Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

NCScouter wrote:

> Can slides be scanned for computer usage or must one have photographs
> developed as well as the slides and the scans?
>
> V T Phelps (who always manages to worry about costs somehow...)
> Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
>
> Tell a man that there's 500 trillion stars in the universe
> and he'll believe you; but tell him that there's wet paint
> on that bench and he's absolutely *obligated* to...
>
> > ----
> Albert Lewis wrote:
> > 5. Shoot slides. You can always get prints from them, but not the
> > other 'way round without sacrificing quality.
> > My 2c worth,
> > Albert
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 23:23:11 1998
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From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Solder problem
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:04:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.20436.0>
References: <<3.0.2.32.19980223214322.0069605c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Precedence: bulk



>	I am having a problem with my soldering lately.. and have no 
>clue what it
>may be really...  here is what is happening:
>

>	The soldering iron is not hot enough..  It is on a rheostat 
>and I have the setting at 100%.  I have a brand new tip so I don't think
that is a problem.  
>the piece that I am working on is 135 pieces where other projects
somewhat 
>smaller

>get finished much faster  
>	
>	Any comments on any of the above would be greatly appreciated. 
> Thanks
>
>Barbara


Barbara,
My first thought is that you have never asked so much of your iron
before.  An iron that is fine for smaller work, often just doesn't have a
large enough heat sink to keep you going on larger work.  As you work you
just draw all the heat out of it faster than it can replenish it and you
must wait for it to catch up.  

What type of iron are you using?

Gary Dodge            Dodge Studio Designs            
www.dodgestudio.com

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 23:27:25 1998
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From: pkelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Soldering Tip
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:38:46 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.183846.0>
Precedence: bulk

Has anybody used a tip that is designed to give you a nice bead? I
bought one. It looks kind of like a wooden pencil point that you
purposely broke off the point. It had no directions with it. I've had
moderate success with it by making small drops of solder on the copper
foil and joining them. There must be an easier way.

Thanks in advance.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows.

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 23:46:17 1998
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From: pkelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: RE: Deleted???
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:46:43 -0600
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<Or is now Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK relegated to "delete" mode??>

Now Elisabeth you know that we wouldn't relegate you to the "delete"
mode. I'll visit the sight tomorrow night, as long as you promise to let
Toby bark.

BTW I'm still working on the pattern in Toby's honor. When I finish it
I'll send it to Glenna for posting. Toby .... what does a crumpet look
like? Is a biscuit a cookie? Y'all shur talk funny. Not like usin in
Texas.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 23 23:57:33 1998
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From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: cameras
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 02:25:26 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb23.182526.0>
References: <<1998Feb23.183235.0>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Strictly for the record, so that I don't feel like I'm misleading
anyone: I am located on the Outer Banks of North Carolina (Being plagued
by one nor'easter after another!) in the good ol' USA, AND I get my film
developed by Walmart or Revco, whichever has the best coupon that week!
;-D
I had completely forgotten that some developers offer that service, and
I think it's only an extra $5/6 (USD) additional to the prints. THANK
you Pat!
V T Phelps (Being BLOWN away in the windy wild shores of Roanoke Island
NC...by a nor'easter!)

pkelly wrote:
<<Snippity-snip>> 
> An alternative is to have your photos put on a CD-ROM or
> floppy disk. Looks like you are located in the UK I'm sure your
> local photo developer could help. Kodak I know has the capabilities and
> probably is reasonable in price.
> Good Luck
> Patrick
> Roses and Rainbows
> 
> NCScouter wrote:
> > Can slides be scanned for computer usage or must one have photographs
> > developed as well as the slides and the scans?
> > V T Phelps (who always manages to worry about costs somehow...)
> > > ----
> > Albert Lewis wrote:
> > > 5. Shoot slides. You can always get prints from them, but not the
> > > other 'way round without sacrificing quality.
> > > My 2c worth,
> > > Albert
> > ----
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 00:50:21 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Finger protection
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:45:14, -0500
Message-ID: <199802240445.XAB15440@mime4.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

The best thing I know of is *Alligator Skin*. It is a green gauze 
like non stickey tape that sticks to itself and works well. Wrap 
about a foot around the finger and squeeze together. 

Comes in 90' rolls with instructions for about $1.50. I have only 
found it in the Rio Grande catalog (800 545-6566 USA, 800 253-9738 
CAN, 505 344-9671 FAX) to order the catalog.

Caution: General brousing in this catalog can result in large outlays 
of money for things you must have.
Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, (Sandblast it dammit!) 
26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 02:20:16 1998
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From: david.outram@luton.ac.uk
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: ouch!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:02:46 GMT
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.10246.0>
Organization: University of Luton
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Maureen wrote:

> I have been working a panel in lead (my first love), and my fingertips are
> smarting.  I was wondering if anyone does/doesn't wear gloves when building a
> panel.  If so what kind...  I really need my fingertips to feel teeny tiny
> pulses, veins and arteries on my day job...any suggestions?  tips?  (pun
> intended).  
> 

Try the thin medical gloves they seem to work fine.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 02:51:08 1998
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X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike
From: Mike Simpson <mike@jackel.demon.co.uk>
To: Margaret41@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Bevel clusters
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:48:43 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <199802240648.GAA00243@jackel.demon.co.uk>
References: <<1998Feb23.154456.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Margaret,

This is more an American English vs. English English than
newbie vs. oldie thing.

I don't know what it is in the U.S., but I think possibly "thermo-glaze"?
Double glazing is where a window pane is made of two sheets of glass with
an air space between them: sealed unit is where they are sealed against
air getting in to keep out condensation.

Mike Simpson.

> 
> In a message dated 98-02-23 06:01:42 EST, you write:
> Mike Simpson wrote:
> << To supply leaded glass
>  panels for sealed unit double glazing units. >>
> 
> Could you pls. explain what this is for the newbies that lurk at bungi? Thanks
> 
> Margaret
> 
> "Life only has 2 rules; Rule #1 - don't quit...Rule #2 - always refer to rule
> #1" -- Duke Ellington
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 03:13:16 1998
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From: Mike Simpson <mike@jackel.demon.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: white lines
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:56:28 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <199802240756.HAA00379@jackel.demon.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

As I mentioned in a recent posting, I am doing some leaded panels for
incorporating in sealed double glazed door and window panels. Mostly 
the doors and window surrounds are in very smooth white plastic (double
yechh!!) and this seems to accentuate any flaws in the leading of the
panel and this is where I am having trouble. I sometimes get white lines
around the edges of the lead, sometimes from the whiting and sometimes 
from patina solution or even cleaning liquids. After a certain point any
cleaning only seems to make it worse.

I would appreciate any tips on how to remove or avoid getting these
white lines and to get the hi-tech pitch black cementing that my customer
wants.

Another question, what should I add to cement to keep it gloopy? I 
assume that it would be something like turpentine and raw linseed oil,
but in what proportions.

Thanks for any tips that you can give,

Mike Simpson.

  
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 05:24:56 1998
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Deleted???
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:12:37 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980224071235.006af93c@mail.bright.net>
Precedence: bulk

 In the last 2 weeks I have not heard a single squeak from ANY 
>of you, whether acknowledgement, comments, or...anything.
>Total silence.
>What happened?

I, for one, went immediately to the site, and browsed with much interest in
finding out just who those people were and about the trip!  Just guess I
kept it to myself!  Sorry!  Thanks so much for your efforts!

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
Ohio

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 07:49:22 1998
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: gloopy cement
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 08:37:12 -0700
Message-ID: <m0y7MPy-000LiCC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<199802240756.HAA00379@jackel.demon.co.uk>>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
<big snip>
> Another question, what should I add to cement to keep it gloopy? I
> assume that it would be something like turpentine and raw linseed oil,
> but in what proportions.
i always used boiled linseed oil rather than raw. this makes it evaporate  
(not really, it changes into a different chemical, but it goes away just the  
same) better.

i usually mix it to the consistancy of a really thick honey, and only mix  
enough to do a couple square feet at a time. that way i don't have to worry  
about a pot life.

---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 08:23:03 1998
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From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: toby@northlights.co.uk, Glass Enthusiasts <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: sorry
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:43:13 -0500
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Toby. . .
I am really sorry for not letting you know how much I appreciated your
posting.  I did really enjoy the pictures and should have let you know
immediately.  My manners really are amiss. I'll do better next
time!       Nadine


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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 08:49:53 1998
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From: Stephanie Hansen <sgt@glasstreasures.com>
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Subject: Re: Deleted???
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:13:12 -0600
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References: <<199802240054.AAA04606@pluto.nildram.co.uk>>
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Sorry, Elisabeth, I had kept the message intending to go see the pics on my
much faster work computer, and then totally forgot!  The pictures are
wonderful, and I thank you for putting them up.  Makes me want to go see it
myself some day, even more than I already wanted to!

:-)
Steph ~

>About a week ago I came out of "lurk-mode" to tell you that I had 
>finally posted the first Chartres photos on my web-site.



-----------------------------------
Stephanie Hansen - Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX
Affordable stained glass pieces for gifts or personal use
Enter the sweepstakes to win a stained glass suncatcher!
<mailto:sgt@glasstreasures.com>   <http://glasstreasures.com/>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 09:21:37 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chartres Photos - how to find
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:01:19 +0000
Message-ID: <199802241705.RAA00488@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Bunginians,

...from one extreme to the other.... mailbox this morning full of 25 
messages, asking where are they, can't find them......
So back to my original e-mail for how-to...  ;-)

A Small Group photo underneath a stained glass canope in the Loire 
Studio gardens shows from left to right Grandson Loire, Kathe 
McDonald (Bungi USA), Elisabeth (Bungi UK), Peggy Johnson (Bungi USA) 
and John Chapman (one of my students). A pic of ME - at LAST!!!!  
(but don't hold your breaths!!) 
Text & more pics to follow at later stage...

My WEB-site address: 
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm

ClLICK on "classes" and then on "Clifton"; and at the bottom of that 
page you will find the reference to Chartres. ( have 
experienced difficulties when trying to click on 
thumbnails to get enlargements. It could be just me. Have to wait for 
clarification until "computer-guru" comes back from his UK-wide 
travels...) Enjoy!
 Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 09:50:51 1998
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Subject: puttying a window
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 10:36:00 PST
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Hi all,
	I am wondering about puttying a window...
I made a 30" square window in a brass frame.  It is
an inside winow.  Suspended in a regular window near
a door that is slammed quite frequently.  I have noticed
that there are some points of light showing through, and
had to fix a solder joint in the main frame.  Should I putty
this window?  I was told by  the man who taught me, not
to putty windows that will not be exposed to the elements,
and therefore did not.   This window is in a business, and
the customer has not shown any concern over it.  Am I
being too critical of my work, and if I should have to putty
it, do I charge, or chalk it up as my mistake?  Thanks!

Laurean


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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 10:15:54 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Outside windows and a door question
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:33:57 -0600
Message-ID: <199802241722.LAA22946@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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>>In the case of the door, I haven't decided whether it would be best
>to have the lights separated by lead or by wood (which I'd have
>assembled after the panels were crafted).  Other French leaded glass
>doors in my home just have the lead separating the panels, reinforced
>by what look like steel strips (thin, perpendicular to the door) here
>and there.  Is this still acceptable for modern construction, or
>should I go for the safer wood option?  It's an interior door that
>will never be subject to the elements or wind (other than from use).

Are you certain that the matrix of the doors is lead?  Are they original?
Very possible that it could be zinc contruction especially from that era.

Sure it is OK to build them without wood dividers. I would use 5/8 flat zinc
and attach rebar (steel strips) to each horizontal member and notch into the
frame. I should point out that even though they are not exposed to the
elements, a slammed door is very hard on a SG panel.  Another option would
be to match the construction of the existing panels .If they were built 60
years ago and are holding up well, then there should be no problem.

If you decide to build them this way, post again for more details on
contructing this type of panel.

Good luck

Len









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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 10:21:17 1998
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From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Deleted???
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:49:01 -0600
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>About a week ago I came out of "lurk-mode" to tell you that I had
>finally posted the first Chartres photos on my web-site.
>. In the last 2 weeks I have not heard a single squeak from ANY
>of you, whether acknowledgement, comments, or...anything.
>Total silence.

I  can't find the the Chartes link on your web site  Elisabeth

Len







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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 10:35:45 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison
From: ItsAlison@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: ouch!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:23:15 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-23 19:27:20 EST, you write:

<< I have been working a panel in lead (my first love), and my fingertips are
 smarting.  I was wondering if anyone does/doesn't wear gloves when building a
 panel.  If so what kind...  I really need my fingertips to feel teeny tiny
 pulses, veins and arteries on my day job...any suggestions?  tips?  (pun
 intended).  
  >>

Hello Maureen,
     In the beginning when i was just starting to solder on copper foil, my
fingers were getting beaten up by the chemicals in the flux.  I found that
wearing latex surgical gloves has really helped a lot, and now I wouldnt be
without them.  I am fortunate enough to be able to purchase them at local flea
markets for  $5 to $6 a box of 100 pairs.   And while I was there I also found
bargain surgical kellys and  kryles.......those surgical tools that look like
delicate scissors and  have a clamping mechanism in the handles. They are
excellent for  holding jump rings in place while you solder.  you can pick
them up at a flea market for $3 to $4. (some dealors refer to them as
hemostats)  I also use the gloves when working with lead and patina.  If any
of you do not have a source of these gloves and would like to try them, I have
also seen them in the cleaning section of the local supermarket, sold in
plastic bags of 3 pairs of these thin latex gloves.  Hope this helps! ~Alison~

PS forgive me Maureen, I know you are very familiar with these medical
supplies...the explanation was for others out there who may not be.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 10:43:44 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Finger protection
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:09:45, -0500
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>Cool!  I'll give them a call, thanks for the warning...I remember 
years ago
>ordering from a Rio Grande jewelry wholesaler....is it the same 
company?

>Maureen

Yes, one and the same. While you're ordering, get the smallest 
rawhide maul. I have had one for years now and find it the best thing 
for tapping glass and setting horseshoe nails. Crippled when I can 
not find it.

Warning: Do not look at the jewelery tool pages unless you have 
plenty of money!
Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, (Sandblast it dammit!) 
26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 10:57:52 1998
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From: ItsAlison@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Solder problem
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:49:52 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.174952.0>
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In a message dated 98-02-24 04:00:49 EST, you write:

<< I apply the flux to the clean foil and when I touch the iron to the solder
 and the solder lines it just pulls... kinda of drags across the solder
 line. And peaks a lot but not consistantly.  I can pool the solder and very
 slowly it will tin and bead up, but it is so slow.... >>

Barbara, 
   I have encountered the problem you are describeing twice and for different
reasons.
The first time after installing a  new tip, I discovered that the problem was
with my ceramic core iron, in the core itself.  I had dropped the iron and the
ceramic core was cracked, causing heat loss and an uneveness of heat. The
other time, i had soldered with a 50/50 solder that had a lot of imputities in
the solder and there was a buildup of impurities on the iron that were barely
visable.  This time after cleaning the tip well on a sal amoniac block and re-
tinnning the tip, the problem cleared up.  If you have another iron available,
plug it in and see what happens......if the problem reocurrs, maybe it is your
rheostat or even the water problem you mentioned,  Have you tried another roll
of solder?  Maybe the solder itself is at fault.  If it is happening only
after long runs of soldering, maybe your iron is cooling off and needs time to
"catch up" again.   These are the only things I can think of...maybe someone
else has some other ideas.  ~Alison~
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 11:00:19 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: white lines
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:56:25 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.55625.0>
References: <<199802240756.HAA00379@jackel.demon.co.uk>>
Organization: Summit Stained Glass  (see us at:  http://www.summitstudio.com)
Precedence: bulk

Mike,

To begin, I do not cement a panel that is going to be "sealed" between
two sheets of clear glass.  The cement will retain water and will take
you forever to dry it out.  And, the whiting and small globs of cement
will continually fall out of the lead and look like specks of dirt
inside the sealed unit.  No way to clean it afterward.

I have a local flat glass shop that seals the panels using a primary
seal and a secondary seal, with a desicated frame on the edges.  I think
that's the only way to go if you want to get the longest life out of the
seals.  To date, the oldest panels I have out there are about 10 years,
and seals are still holding ...... but, of course that's peanuts when
you compare it to the expected lifetime of the panel.

But, my point is, I don't cement panels destined for a thermal seal
because the cement retains a lot of water, certainly enough to saturate
any amount of desicant you can get in the panel.  And, the dried cement
and whiting will always fall out of the came and be highly visible on
the glass, especially if it's clear bevels.

If you're cementing for strength reasons, use tempered glass for the
sandwich.

Mike Peck

Mike Simpson wrote:
> 
> As I mentioned in a recent posting, I am doing some leaded panels for
> incorporating in sealed double glazed door and window panels. Mostly
> the doors and window surrounds are in very smooth white plastic (double
> yechh!!) and this seems to accentuate any flaws in the leading of the
> panel and this is where I am having trouble. I sometimes get white lines
> around the edges of the lead, sometimes from the whiting and sometimes
> from patina solution or even cleaning liquids. After a certain point any
> cleaning only seems to make it worse.
> 
> I would appreciate any tips on how to remove or avoid getting these
> white lines and to get the hi-tech pitch black cementing that my customer
> wants.
> 
> Another question, what should I add to cement to keep it gloopy? I
> assume that it would be something like turpentine and raw linseed oil,
> but in what proportions.
> 
> Thanks for any tips that you can give,
> 
> Mike Simpson.
> 
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 11:26:19 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison
From: ItsAlison@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:29:46 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.182946.0>
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To Glenn and Gary and everyone else who has been so generous with answering my
camera questions.......thanks!  I understand now what you have been saying,
and now I know how to correct some of the problems that have been getting in
the way of obtaining some really great shots.  None of you would ever believe
how many shots I have had to take, just to get a decent photo of one item.
multipy this by the number of items I have been taking pictures of, LOL, and
it has added up to big piles of less than usable pictures.  ~Alison~
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 11:54:03 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Lexan
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:13:44 -0600
Message-ID: <199802241802.MAA25668@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Precedence: bulk


>And as far as lexon goes......................nothing but a nightmare all
it
>does is give you unsightly scratches even when you wipe it with a diaper.


Lexan sucks (and you can quote me on that)

I am ashamed to to say that in my days as an installation specialist, I hung
many thousands of square feet of that junk. In my own defense I did
recommend storm glass for most sets but was turned down almost every time.
 and not by the customer)

Lexan  was marketed as a major breakthrough in window protection, but it
turned out to be nothing more then a  variation of the old hit and run
aluminum siding routine. It went up FAST and required  only limited
installation skills compared to a proper vented glass installation. And we
charged more for this  so-called wonder material besides.

The number of beautiful churches and other buildings around the country that
are burdened with that scratched, distorted, discolored crap is pitiful.

If I were a wealthy man I would pay, out of my own pocket, for the removal
of every last bit of it that I installed, as matter of conscience.


Thanks for tolerating my venting.......I feel better now   :-)


Len










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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 11:58:25 1998
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From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: latex gloves 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:40:48 CST 6CDT
Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0>
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Precedence: bulk

You can get the gloves at most drug stores--not as cheap as at the 
flea market, of course, but I just bought a box of 50 at Walgreens 
last night for $4.99.

Kaye
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 12:21:40 1998
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From: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:42:45 -0500
Message-ID: <199802241942.OAA00542@aries17.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <<1998Feb24.182946.0>>
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ItsAlison  twists the bytes to say:

 ItsAlison> To Glenn and Gary and everyone else who has been so
             generous with answering my 
 ItsAlison> camera questions.......thanks!  I understand now what you
            have been saying, 

Hi fellow s-glassers,

I just subscribed to the list and I am glad I found it. I got late to
the discussion, but I'll add my $0.02.

A good book on the subject is Photographing your Artwork, by Hart. 
Published by North Light Books, ISBN: 0891344497

The book appears to be out of print, but you'll might be lucky.

In essence, I'd say the camera is not too relevant (as long as you
have a reflex or superior camera). What's critical is lightning and
avoidance of unwanted reflections (or transfer of unwanted light if
you're photographing a against the light). The book discusses
techniques for stained glass. if people are interested I can prepare a
summary describing its advice. It is well worth it. It starts saying:

"Stained glass is perhaps the trickiest kind of two-dimensional
artwork to photograph, because it must be transilluminated."


--
Daniel M. German
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

 
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 12:45:21 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Pattern shears
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:52:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.9520.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All-

Well, all you folks who have
been around here for awhile =

know I'm not to keen on gadgets,
but I bought one yesterday at our
wholesaler's that's pretty darn
slick!  And, will probably be of
interest to all of you who posted
their frustrations in trying to use
pattern shears.  These are a =

new style (I presume they're new,
since I've never seen them before)
 of pattern shear with an
ergonomic grip handle and short
blades, and you know what.... they
work a gazillion times better than
the traditional kind (though I don't
have much trouble with those either).
And they're pretty cheap, though I
won't mention HOW cheap so the
retailers don't get mad at me!  They're
called the James Easycut (TM) by =

Inland and I would recommend
them for anyone who cuts patterns.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 13:23:11 1998
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: latex gloves 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 13:02:34 -0700
Message-ID: <m0y7QYn-000LiCC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
> You can get the gloves at most drug stores--not as cheap as at the
> flea market, of course, but I just bought a box of 50 at Walgreens
> last night for $4.99.

you can also get them in home depot in the paint department for pennies apiece. 
---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 13:25:14 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ouch!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:20:04 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.4204.0>
References: <<1998Feb24.172315.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I don't do panels,......
I do grind alot.  Wet fingers and sharp glass can be a bad combination.
So when I first started out, I use to wear garderner's rose gloves. They
are thick rough rubbery gloves.  No fine precision here. But.... They
keep your hands dry and do not let the sharp glass in.  They cost $10+ a
pair.
I have seen them in the scrap glass bins at stained glass stores, for
their customers to wear while they are hunting through the glass.  The
retailers sell them, but they are a tad bit cheaper at department
stores.  It has been my experience that you won't save enough money at
the department store, to pay for a trip across town, or to shop several
stores trying to find them.
For me, now, I use them when I need to give my fingers a rest.
The plastic gloves are called exam gloves.  If you have someone in a
nursing home, you could ask their purchaser to buy you a couple of
boxes(100 to a box). If they are willing to do that, you will save alot
of money(you could always try a hospital, but I am sure they have some
rules against it).  Also they can be purchased in the paint dept. at any
hardware store, from 10 cents to a dollar each.
I use them inside garden gloves, when I am mixing/pouring concrete.
Talk about ruin your hands, pour concrete unprotected! (I know Monona,
you are shuddering)
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 13:55:19 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: latex gloves 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:34:14 -0800
Message-ID: <199802242023.MAA07802@intergate.lasercom.net>
Precedence: bulk

Besides using the latex gloves, I have found  'Flents finger Cots'
indispensable!  Instead of having your entire hand enveloped in latex, you
have only a finger or two.  They are great!

Jean

jean@lasercom.net
ICQ#7131940

----------
> You can get the gloves at most drug stores--not as cheap as at the 
> flea market, of course, but I just bought a box of 50 at Walgreens 
> last night for $4.99.
> 
> Kaye

Jean

jean@lasercom.net
jeanor_ak@yahoo.com
ICQ#7131940
NetMeeting: Bonnie Nrmn  (ils1)

Until next time...
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 14:25:10 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Lexan
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:17:00 -0500
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Yup, Len, whatever you have
to say about Lexan, be assured
that Michael and I agree 100%.
Though, I wouldn't even in my
wildest dreams consider taking
it all down at my own expense.
Mike strongly states his case
against it to the customer, and
in every case in which it was used,
the customer insisted.  Let it now
be on their shoulders!  Alleluia!

Best regards,

Dani ;-) Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 14:51:07 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Copy of: Re: white lines
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:16:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.111640.0>
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:   Michael J. Greer, 105715,1412
TO:     mike peck, INTERNET:summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net
DATE:   2/24/98 1:19 PM

RE:     Copy of: Re: white lines

Hi all-

Michael and I agree 100% with
Mike Peck's comments on =

cementing and sealed windows!
Couldn't have said it better.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 15:03:56 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:16:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.111654.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Daniel-

Welcome to bungi and please
do post more information on
photographing glass.  The only
thing I've read recently that =

specifically addresses shooting
stained glass is in Jennie French"s
book on stained glass.  We shoot =

most of our work in a north facing
shop window and get pretty good
pictures (also get shots on-site but
that's always an iffy proposition), but
I have a recent install that's giving me
real problems - an entryway that's
backlit with flourescent lighting.  If
I can nail this location, I may actually
try to get photos of the infamous Feng
Shui window which is also artificially
lit. ;-)

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
603 W. Colorado Ave.
Colorado Springs, CO  80905

http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ =

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 15:18:54 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Copy of: puttying a window
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:16:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.111646.0>
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:   Michael J. Greer, 105715,1412
TO:     "Laurean", INTERNET:vlclover@rconnect.com
DATE:   2/24/98 1:14 PM

RE:     Copy of: puttying a window

Hi Laureen-

You should very definitely
cement this window.  And just
for the record, cementing provides
more benefits than just water-
proofing the window against the
elements.  Your previous teacher
was wrong in his assessment of =

the cementing process.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 15:23:21 1998
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From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:43:39 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.84339.0>
References: <<199802241942.OAA00542@aries17.uwaterloo.ca>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Daniel,
YES! since you asked, I would be among the interested parties to have
access to some type of summarization of techniques for photgraphing
stained glass.
Thank you SO much for the offer!
V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.

"It is the manner, not the content that marks a gentleman."
> ----
Daniel M. German wrote:
<<Snippity-snip>>
> Hi fellow s-glassers,
> In essence, I'd say the camera is not too relevant (as long as you
> have a reflex or superior camera). What's critical is lightning and
> avoidance of unwanted reflections (or transfer of unwanted light if
> you're photographing a against the light). The book discusses
> techniques for stained glass. if people are interested I can prepare a
> summary describing its advice. It is well worth it. It starts saying:
> 
> "Stained glass is perhaps the trickiest kind of two-dimensional
> artwork to photograph, because it must be transilluminated."
> 
> --
> Daniel M. German
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 15:47:11 1998
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X-Path: mail.det-freepress.com!newman
From: "Heather Newman" <newman@det-freepress.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Outside windows and a door question
Summary: Authenticated sender is <newman@mail.det-freepress.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:45:09 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.16459.0>
Organization: Detroit Free Press
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Here's a copy of my reply to Len's response (I know, this is getting 
confusing) to my original posting on my outside window/inside door 
question, which inadvertently went backchannel instead of on the 
list.  Sorry about that!  Len gently pointed out that it probably 
should have been posted for the benefit of the list...

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:          "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To:            <newman@det-freepress.com>
Subject:       Re: Outside windows and a door question
Date:          Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:41:18 -0600


> Len--
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.  It's very possible that the original
> dividers in my old doors are zinc, rather than lead, although they have an
> interesting texture to them (sort of rustic and melted) that I would
> associate with lead construction, only because of its flexibility.

Interesting....haven't seen too much decorative finish on came.

Can you photograph it scan and attach to email in your spare time ....Just
kidding!

> Forgive my ignorance, but when we talk about rebar, are we talking
> about the traditional round, black, lumpy stuff that's used in
> concrete?  Or some more specific stained-glass substance?

Rebar ( bracing) is the generally used name for the thin perpendicular metal
strips you referred to in your post.

----------------------------------------
Heather Newman, Detroit Free Press
newman@det-freepress.com
313-223-3336
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From: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:10:45 -0600
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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:46:50 -0500
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: white lines
Sender: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
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Hi all-

Michael and I agree 100% with
Mike Peck's comments on =

cementing and sealed windows!
Couldn't have said it better.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios

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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:36:51 +0000
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Thank you Uncle Pat!!!
Please note my earlier (and earlier still) info about "navigation to 
Chartres".

Of course Toby will be delighted to say "hello" since he is a fan of 
yours anyway. (There is a new "baby-pic" of Toby also on the 
web-site, when he was 9 weeks old!!!), together with 2 more sg 
panels, from the whole collection my "computer guru" has on file to 
get up on the Page for me. The 2 panels from the United Reform Church 
are still in my camera awaiting developing. 
'Nuf for now.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Pat wrote:
<Or is now Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK relegated to "delete" mode??>

Now Elisabeth you know that we wouldn't relegate you to the "delete"
mode. I'll visit the sight tomorrow night, as long as you promise to let
Toby bark.

BTW I'm still working on the pattern in Toby's honor. When I finish it
I'll send it to Glenna for posting. Toby .... what does a crumpet look
like? Is a biscuit a cookie? Y'all shur talk funny. Not like usin in
Texas.


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 17:05:20 1998
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From: Kopp <glassurgeon@clis.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:55:17 -0500
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At 04:43 PM 2/24/98 -0800, V T Phelps wrote:
>YES! since you asked, I would be among the interested parties to have
>access to some type of summarization of techniques for photgraphing
>stained glass.
>Thank you SO much for the offer!
>V T Phelps
>Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.


Ditto!

Dava
glassurgeon@clis.com


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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 17:28:52 1998
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From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: ouch!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:23:22 -0500
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Hiya,

For grinding, I have tried many fingertip-savers, but the best one I have
found by far are some little rubber thimbles. I'm not sure even what these
are supposed to be for but they are thick rubber, reddish-colored, with
little rubber bumps on them for grip and they just cover your fingertips
like a thimble. Put one on each forefinger and thumb and you don't have to
worry about waterlogged fingers slicing open again.

By the way, don't even waste your cash on Inland Thumbsavers or those
Morton gripper tong things.

Sarah

>I don't do panels,......
>I do grind alot.  Wet fingers and sharp glass can be a bad combination.
>So when I first started out, I use to wear garderner's rose gloves. They
>are thick rough rubbery gloves.  No fine precision here. But.... They
>keep your hands dry and do not let the sharp glass in.  They cost $10+ a
>pair.
>I have seen them in the scrap glass bins at stained glass stores, for
>their customers to wear while they are hunting through the glass.  The
>retailers sell them, but they are a tad bit cheaper at department
>stores.  It has been my experience that you won't save enough money at
>the department store, to pay for a trip across town, or to shop several
>stores trying to find them.
>For me, now, I use them when I need to give my fingers a rest.
>The plastic gloves are called exam gloves.  If you have someone in a
>nursing home, you could ask their purchaser to buy you a couple of
>boxes(100 to a box). If they are willing to do that, you will save alot
>of money(you could always try a hospital, but I am sure they have some
>rules against it).  Also they can be purchased in the paint dept. at any
>hardware store, from 10 cents to a dollar each.
>I use them inside garden gloves, when I am mixing/pouring concrete.
>Talk about ruin your hands, pour concrete unprotected! (I know Monona,
>you are shuddering)



----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 17:37:17 1998
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From: "Laurean" <vlclover@rconnect.com>
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Subject: Thanks!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 17:53:09 PST
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Thanks all of you who replied to
my question of puttying!

Laurean
Eph 4:32

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 17:57:22 1998
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From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: puttying a window
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:25:55 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.122555.0>
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Hi Laurean..

I putty all panels I do no matter if they are exterior or interior...It
gives a lot of added strength to the panels besides weatherproofing them...

Byron..

-----Original Message-----
From: Laurean <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 4:00 AM
Subject: puttying a window


>Hi all,
> I am wondering about puttying a window...
>I made a 30" square window in a brass frame.  It is
>an inside winow.  Suspended in a regular window near
>a door that is slammed quite frequently.  I have noticed
>that there are some points of light showing through, and
>had to fix a solder joint in the main frame.  Should I putty
>this window?  I was told by  the man who taught me, not
>to putty windows that will not be exposed to the elements,
>and therefore did not.   This window is in a business, and
>the customer has not shown any concern over it.  Am I
>being too critical of my work, and if I should have to putty
>it, do I charge, or chalk it up as my mistake?  Thanks!
>
>Laurean


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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 18:22:50 1998
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From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Stanley Door Company now sells stained glass?!!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:02:58 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.12258.0>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

I was wondering if anyone else had the opportunity to catch a glimpse of
what the Stanley Door Company is now starting to offer: stained glass in
STEEL came! The contractor sample that I was allowed to look over and
handle had several stock colors of GNA, some colored glue chip, and a
pretty nice 3.25" amber rondel. The really interesting part of it though
is that it was all encased/created with STEEL came and some VERY tough
solder. This would be a difficult piece to damage in a well-used door,
but the only place with the capabilities of bending steel u-channel came
WOULD be a company like Stanley, now wouldn't it!! I've been depressed,
until it occured to me that these pieces HAD to be machine processed
somehow, (except for the soldering which was smooth enough to pass--yet
rather too large at the joints,) and being such couldn't possibly have
the ultimate monetary value that a hand-made, reinforced leaded panel
would have; AND (here's the really pleasurable part for me!) if the
steel in the came lasts like their steel doors we have NOTHING to fear
anyhow cause their doors begin to rust out anywhere near the ocean in a
matter of less than 10 years... <chuckling gleefully!>

Comments from anyone else who may have come across this stuff?

V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassiworks, Ltd.
"The mouse dreams dreams which would terrify the cat!"
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 19:22:36 1998
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From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: solder problems
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:55:42 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980224215542.006a1c04@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Precedence: bulk

Good Evening,
	As usual, everyone here gave me plenty of things to think about.  I
removed my rheostat, opened a fresh jar of flux, lightly brushed the foil
with cleaner and tried to solder a little.  No Luck !! Same problem, very
slow and lots of dragging.  

	I used 60/40 solder (a new roll) and my iron is a Mika 100 watt.  Looks
like I will be replacing it this weekend.  I think I will keep it around
for decorative work using little balls.... it makes lovely little balls.

	Thanks for all your suggestions... and by the way, because of the sulphur
in my water I do use air tight plastic bags for storing my foil.  

Barbara
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 19:53:34 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Fwd: Solder problem
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:22:15 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980224222215.0069d804@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Suzanne,
	I like your idea about the distilled water, I think I will do the same.
Sulphur is a gas and it will cause oxidation on metals especially those
that have copper as a base metal.  And because it is a gas it is in the
air, carried into my house through the water from my well.  
	If there is any good news about sulphur water, it is good for your skin
and hair... haven't really found any other redeaming qualities about it for
home use.

>3. When I use the sponge to clean my tip, I use distilled water because I 
>had a terrible oxidation problem a few years back when we had a drought. 
>But that didn't affect the soldering, it made all my projects oxidize 
>after they were finished a week or so. It could have been the minerals in 
>my well water. Never heard of sulfur in the air!
>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 20:16:23 1998
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From: Northernlights <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>, NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Stanley Door Company & Stained glass?!!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:26:57 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.152657.0>
References: <<1998Feb24.12258.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Do you know if Stanley happens to have a webpage about this???
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 20:36:07 1998
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From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Glass Enthusiasts <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: protecting fingers
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:29:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.172916.0>
Organization: Nadine's Folly
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I thought if I sent this without the original message everyone would
still understand. To protect myself from the burning flux and hot solder
I use nitrile gloves. They are blue and really fit like a second skin. I
find I can feel things really well with them and most of the time I
hardly know I am wearing them.  I buy mine from Houston Stained Glass,
but I know some commercial industrial places have them. They are made by
a company called Best.  They cost a little more than latex, but to me,
it is well worth the price.
                                                     Nadine

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 20:57:24 1998
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X-Path: eagle.ca!glass
From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Stanley Door Company now sells stained glass?!!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:15:59 -0500
Message-ID: <v01530500b1194b00850a@[206.186.242.107]>
Precedence: bulk


>I was wondering if anyone else had the opportunity to catch a glimpse of
>what the Stanley Door Company is now starting to offer: stained glass in
>STEEL came! The contractor sample that I was allowed to look over and
>handle had several stock colors of GNA, some colored glue chip, and a
>pretty nice 3.25" amber rondel. The really interesting part of it though
>is that it was all encased/created with STEEL came and some VERY tough
>solder. This would be a difficult piece to damage in a well-used door,
>but the only place with the capabilities of bending steel u-channel came
>WOULD be a company like Stanley, now wouldn't it!! I've been depressed,
>until it occured to me that these pieces HAD to be machine processed
>somehow, (except for the soldering which was smooth enough to pass--yet
>rather too large at the joints,) and being such couldn't possibly have
>the ultimate monetary value that a hand-made, reinforced leaded panel
>would have; AND (here's the really pleasurable part for me!) if the
>steel in the came lasts like their steel doors we have NOTHING to fear
>anyhow cause their doors begin to rust out anywhere near the ocean in a
>matter of less than 10 years... <chuckling gleefully!>
>
>Comments from anyone else who may have come across this stuff?
>
>V T Phelps



And when the glass gets broken in these windows, let's hope they send them
back to Stanley for repair!!

Sarah



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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 21:25:47 1998
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From: CWWSLW@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pattern shears
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:35:19 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb25.43519.0>
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What?!?
Pattern shears that actually work? I will have to try these. Maybe I have
cursed my blasted things for the last time!
Susan
(still working on giraffe window)
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 24 22:24:04 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Last call 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:45:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb24.194519.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

A little while back I posted a note about some windows that the
Archdiosces of Wyoming is trying to sell.  I got reports that some folks
had trouble viewing the pix so I have changed the file format and put
them up again. (They are fairly simple windows.)  If you want to take a
look they are at

http://www.dodgestudio.com/wndosale.htm

Gary Dodge

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 05:50:05 1998
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From: Dudley246@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Glass panels in kitchen cabnets
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:15:17 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb25.131517.0>
Precedence: bulk



What's the best way to install glass pannels in kitchen cabnet doors?? I'm
gonna attempt to make and put in glass pannels in my parents kitchen cabnet
doors,any suggestions would be alot of help,Thanx Damon
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 06:52:35 1998
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From: Alcista <mindwarp@sgi.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: cameras
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:08:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb25.4850.0>
References: <<1998Feb23.182526.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Seatle Filmworks offer the photo on disk service.   They also supply the
software for viewing the photos.

Seatle Filmworks
Elliott Bay at Pier 89
PO Box 34056
Seattle WA  98124-9956
(206)283-9074

Sandi ;-)

NCScouter wrote:

> Strictly for the record, so that I don't feel like I'm misleading
> anyone: I am located on the Outer Banks of North Carolina (Being plagued
> by one nor'easter after another!) in the good ol' USA, AND I get my film
> developed by Walmart or Revco, whichever has the best coupon that week!
> ;-D
> I had completely forgotten that some developers offer that service, and
> I think it's only an extra $5/6 (USD) additional to the prints. THANK
> you Pat!
>
>
> pkelly wrote:
> <<Snippity-snip>>
> > An alternative is to have your photos put on a CD-ROM or
> > floppy disk.



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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 07:24:48 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Glass panels in kitchen cabnets
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:51:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb25.45145.0>
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Message text written by INTERNET:Dudley246@aol.com
>What's the best way to install glass pannels in kitchen cabnet doors?? I=
'm
gonna attempt to make and put in glass pannels in my parents kitchen cabn=
et
doors,any suggestions would be alot of help,Thanx Damon<

Well, I've re-used the existing wooden interior molding to hold in
the panel, and that worked wonderfully, since they were built to
hold in regular float glass.

I've seen some with glass clips which didn't look like they
did the job very well, as the panel was beginning
to sag down at the bottom.  I'm not sure if it was the fault of
not having enough glass clips per square inch to spread out
the work load of keeping the panel in place during opening
and closing, or if it was the fault of poor internal reinforcement
inside the panel itself.

I am working on a pair of kitchen panels right now which will
be held in place with plastic moulding strips which insert
into a routed channel in the wood frame.  These guys look
very strong yet flexible.  I think I am going to like them a lot.
But if they don't work out to my satisfaction, I'll create my own
wood moulding from quarter round and finish it off that way, or
else do the glass clips, making sure to use plenty of them
all the way around the panel.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 07:52:26 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: solder problems
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:07:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb25.5756.0>
References: <<3.0.2.32.19980224215542.006a1c04@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Precedence: bulk

> Good Evening,
>         As usual, everyone here gave me plenty of things to think about.  I
> removed my rheostat, opened a fresh jar of flux, lightly brushed the foil
> with cleaner and tried to solder a little.  No Luck !! Same problem, very
> slow and lots of dragging.
> 
>         I used 60/40 solder (a new roll) and my iron is a Mika 100 watt.  Looks
> like I will be replacing it this weekend.  I think I will keep it around
> for decorative work using little balls.... it makes lovely little balls.
> 
>         Thanks for all your suggestions... and by the way, because of the sulphur
> in my water I do use air tight plastic bags for storing my foil.
> 
> Barbara
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com


it's a good idea to keep all your old irons and tips. they may be bad,
but they can be a life saver if your current iron dies even worse. i
once had to finish a panel with my 550w iron, the thing ways over 10
lbs.

---Mike Savad
-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 08:26:25 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cameras
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:00:29 +0000
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> Seatle Filmworks offer the photo on disk service.   They also supply the
> software for viewing the photos.

That's true, although I hate the way they crop the images. There's 
always part of each image missing at one end or the other ... always, 
it seems, exactly what I would have preferred to be *in the scan. 
Their price is right, but I've resumed having a regular processor 
develop the slides, then scan them myself on my trusty Microtek 35t.

Albert

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 08:52:02 1998
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From: "Douglas R. Terry" <dterry@oregontrail.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: cameras
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:19:26 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.5.16.19980225081926.292f1d38@oregontrail.net>
References: <<1998Feb23.182526.0>>
Precedence: bulk

should note that the film from them cannot be processed anywhere else as
it's a special process to develop it. I was told it's movie film- rerolled? 
		Doug Terry

>Seatle Filmworks offer the photo on disk service.   They also supply the
>software for viewing the photos.
>
>Seatle Filmworks
>Elliott Bay at Pier 89
>PO Box 34056
>Seattle WA  98124-9956
>(206)283-9074
>
>Sandi ;-)

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Subject: painting glass
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:34:39 -0500
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Melanie:
I would like to paint some 3D glass items and I would like it to be
washable.  Any suggestions?? Do you know anything about Silica Based
Paint?
Thanks 
Tracey
tracwan@edenborough.com
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 12:54:18 1998
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Hi Mike-

One other afterthought about
getting the lead really black - you
might consider float soldering the
lead and then trying the black patina-
it should end up very black and shiny.
It might not be worth the extra labor,
but it's an alternative.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 14:26:04 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:47:40 +0000
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Dear Bunginians,

My server has been down for 2 days, and I am only just now working my 
way through the about 200 or so e-mails accummulated. Phheww, no rest 
for the wicked!!!!
Photographing stained glass has always been my great "bug-bear" and I 
have posted questions and frustrations in the past into Bungi-Group 
to that effect. Yet amongst my private e-mails in these last 48 hours 
I have several complimenting me on my photography, asking me "how I 
done it".
I was taught basic photography by my husband 35 years ago. I had an 
old "Halina" camera then. My husband, somewhat older than myself, 
always was a  keen photographer, and had the advantage of obtaining 
many helpful lessons, ideas and professional inputs from real 
world-class photographers during his almost 40-year career 
with the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC). Since my early days 
of trying to learn which end is which of a camera, I have graduated 
to a Pentax 35 mm camera; automatic OR manual. I tend to prefer the 
manual choice. I have a number of lenses, including a macro, narrow 
angle, wide angle and a zoom lense. The camera as such has - over the 
last 10 years or so given me some wonderful results. It wasn't cheap; 
it was bought tax-free in Hong-Kong, whereby my husband contributed 
a third, a friend another third and I myself the final third; THEN 
smuggled into UK.............. ;-)    for my 40th Birthday.

With stained glass I am beginning to realize that my problem has 
nothing to do with the camera, but with the type and/or make of film 
that I use and the film speed. This is where I am really getting 
confused and bothered.  I am finding that I frequently have to go 
BACK and rephotographing a panel in situ. My BEST results are 
achieved when I can photograph something at HOME, before I install 
it; have total control and don't have the customer breathing down my 
neck.  But photographing panels at home does often detract from the 
feeling, ambience of having created and made them for THAT specific 
site.

I have been a Kodak user, tend to have gone for 100 ASA, occasionally 
a  200 ASA; once or twice 400 by mistake. I cannot afford a 
"professional photographer"!

 Comments on THESE aspect.....?
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK






 ItsAlison  twists the bytes to say:

 ItsAlison> To Glenn and Gary and everyone else who has been so
             generous with answering my 
 ItsAlison> camera questions.......thanks!  I understand now what you
            have been saying, 

Hi fellow s-glassers,

I just subscribed to the list and I am glad I found it. I got late to
the discussion, but I'll add my $0.02.

A good book on the subject is Photographing your Artwork, by Hart. 
Published by North Light Books, ISBN: 0891344497

The book appears to be out of print, but you'll might be lucky.

In essence, I'd say the camera is not too relevant (as long as you
have a reflex or superior camera). What's critical is lightning and
avoidance of unwanted reflections (or transfer of unwanted light if
you're photographing a against the light). The book discusses
techniques for stained glass. if people are interested I can prepare a
summary describing its advice. It is well worth it. It starts saying:

"Stained glass is perhaps the trickiest kind of two-dimensional
artwork to photograph, because it must be transilluminated."




----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 14:54:52 1998
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Subject: Re: Glass panels in kitchen cabnets
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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:47:40 +0000
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Hi Dudley & Christie, et al,

Some years ago now I made 6 leaded panels for  cabinets in a kitchen 
(sorry, not on my WEB-page!)
The cabinets themselves had been hand-made over 2-3 years, were floor 
to ceiling cabinets, incoporating in part work-benches. Each cabinet 
had inside fitted lighttube to illuminate the panels. The panels were 
about 18 x 40 inches  - ALL of them except one (which was when I 
really learnt my lesson about  religiously measuring EVERY single 
darned hole, 'cause I made this very one same as the others and 
consequently had to re-do it!!). I re-inforced each panel internally.

The cabinet doors were fitted (at my insistence) with 2 extra hinges 
and the panels were fitted in wood mouldings with wooden beading (+ 
putty) into the holes.. I would certainly not consider using "clips", 
nor would I recommend them for kitchen cabinet usage.
My 2 cents worth.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


Dudley wrote:
 gonna attempt to make 
and put in glass pannels in my parents kitchen cabn=et
doors,any suggestions would be alot of help,Thanx Damon<

Christie replied:
Well, I've re-used the existing wooden interior molding to hold in
the panel, and that worked wonderfully, since they were built to
hold in regular float glass.

I've seen some with glass clips which didn't look like they
did the job very well, as the panel was beginning
to sag down at the bottom.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 14:56:20 1998
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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:47:40 +0000
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Aw, Len,
You make me feel better too!!!!
I was a "stick-on" franchisee many moons ago. The franchisor went 
bust.... (..... and took my money with him......)
I didn't have courage enough then to believe that my OWN stained 
glass would pay the mortgage.
It doesn't.... but it does just about keeps the bailiff away from the 
door.....
Keep smiling!
El;isabeth 'n Toby in UK


 Thanks for tolerating my venting.......I feel better now   :-)


Len










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----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 15:21:59 1998
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From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
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Subject: Re: white lines
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:09:26 -0500
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Dani,

> Hi Mike-
> 
> One other afterthought about
> getting the lead really black - you
> might consider float soldering the
> lead and then trying the black patina-

What is float soldering? 

Dany

Daniela Birkelbach
Software Consultant
dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
**********************************************************************


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Subject: Re: best camera for photographing glass
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:01:13 -0500
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Toby  twistes the bytes to say:

 Toby> with the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC). Since my early days 
 Toby> of trying to learn which end is which of a camera, I have graduated 
 Toby> to a Pentax 35 mm camera; automatic OR manual. I tend to prefer the 
 Toby> manual choice. I have a number of lenses, including a macro, narrow 

I agree with Elizabeth. You need a manual camera (or an automatic with
manual mode). Most modern SLRs include this mode.

 Toby> With stained glass I am beginning to realize that my problem has 
 Toby> nothing to do with the camera, but with the type and/or make of film 
 Toby> that I use and the film speed. This is where I am really getting 

I would add experience. I believe that experience is what counts the most.

 Toby> confused and bothered.  I am finding that I frequently have to go 
 Toby> BACK and rephotographing a panel in situ. My BEST results are 
 Toby> achieved when I can photograph something at HOME, before I install 
 Toby> it; have total control and don't have the customer breathing down my 
 Toby> neck.  But photographing panels at home does often detract from the 
 Toby> feeling, ambience of having created and made them for THAT specific 
 Toby> site.

 Toby> I have been a Kodak user, tend to have gone for 100 ASA, occasionally 
 Toby> a  200 ASA; once or twice 400 by mistake. I cannot afford a 
 Toby> "professional photographer"!

 Comments on THESE aspect.....?

I think that the reason that you get better results with ISO100 rather
than 400 is the bigger latitude of the former film compared to the
latter (I assume you don't make mistakes in exposure when using 400
that you don't make when using 100 film). ISO 100, in general and it
depends on the manufacturer, has more room for error, especially in
the overexposure side. The new AGFA HDC100 allows prints to be
overexposed by up to 5 stops. Kodak is close to that. (I am assuming
you're using negatives, not slides).

I particularly dislike negs for these applications, because their
colours are not as rich as in the slides and because it depends on the
photofinisher. With negs you have to rely on the quality of the person
behind the machine and how good a job wants to do with your particular
prints. With slides, you remove the "middle-man" so to speak.

My recommendation is to bracket by 2 or more stops on each direction,
although it will depend on your particular setting. In general, the
light meter of the camera will not give you a perfect
reading. Experience tells you how much to compensate and in which
direction for each job.


Also, colour casting can be a major problem. I was browsing Mike web
site --superb-- and I came accross the 911 sign he made. He claims the
glass is white, but it looks yellow. That is a common symptom of using
daylight balanced film under tungsten light.  I might be wrong :)

 Toby> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

dmg




--
Daniel M. German                  "Compared to the real life, 
                                   even the best on-line "virtual spaces"
    The Economist ->                are cartoons"
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

 
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 15:55:35 1998
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From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: taking apart a cemented panel
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:19:08 -0500
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Hi all!

I have a cemented panel that I need to take apart.  (two of the glass
pieces are broken).   How do I go about doing that?  It seems I would have
to melt the solder to disconnect the leadcame but how do I then get the
glass pieces out of the lead channel?

Thanks for any help!

Dany

Daniela Birkelbach
Software Consultant
dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
**********************************************************************
"Black holes are where God divided by zero."
Stephen Wright
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 16:15:36 1998
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Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:37:47 +0000
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Dear Bunginians,

My server has been down for about 2 days.... so no mail through 
Bungi. My time is limited; I'm probably the typical scenario of "Ask 
a Busy Person...."
Hungry for stained glass contacts/News and NO Bungi mail, I "surfed". 
It was quite interesting what I have found. It also helped to prepare 
me to say what I am about to say now.

There are now quite a few strictly Questions & Answers Stained Glass 
Groups out there on the WEB; very cut and dried.  If that is what YOU 
are looking for, then I will give the addresses to them at the end of 
this E-mail. If all you are looking for is a kind of a Reference 
Resource then that - perhaps - is better suited to YOUR Requirements.

Bungi is a little bit different, a little bit special, to which Dave 
& Glenna try and imbue with an ethos of avoiding us "slaughtering" 
each other, using foul language, insults and destructiveness,   using 
Bungi as a means of off-loading ill manners, tempers and intolerance. 
(Quite Right Too!), towing the line of relating our communications to 
Stained Glass.

I had the great fortune of lurking, receiving and listening to Bungi 
very  early on in its Birth, I very early on picked up on amazing 
people and personalities regular to Bungi and over a period of a few 
years now, there are a number of people in Bungi I would almost sell 
my soul for to meet, to work with to learn from and to share with. 
Even to the extent of wishing to share my my own home with. Through 
the banter, through the "slightly off-subject" exchanges, I HAVE been 
able in reality to do just THAT. Some of you have found a friend in 
me for LIFE, I in you also.  Through Bungi, I have had visitors from 
South Africa, Canada and the USA.
But we started off by touching a chord somewhere along the lines 
through our exchanges in Bungi Group.
On so many levels we have started to know personal and intimate 
details of each other.
There is nothing wrong in that. It helps us to communicate BETTER.
We KNOW who the "grumpy" ones are, we know about the smokers, we know 
about each other's problems We know about Mike Savad, his dimples and 
his knowledge about Aliens; we know about Albert and his several 
"hats". We know about each other's pets, families, kids, handicaps. 
We even mourn and pay respect to unexpected deths (Bonnie - whom I 
remember very vividly myself). We used to have a period when we went 
to considerable trouble welcoming new subscribers from "exotic" 
parts.  In this last month we have had several new contributions from 
Germany, France, India. I admit I was remiss in not posting my usual 
"Welcome" e-mail, but I should not be the only one to spot these new 
people.  I too have a sort of a family life to sustain and maintain. 
I also have obligations and wishes to maintain and sustain a close 
relationship with the people "From Across The Pond" whom I have 
actually seen and touched physically.

Everything I see and do is ultimately related to stained glass; I 
earn my living through it. Another human being can push all sorts of 
buttons within me on a human, personal , artistic level.. From my own 
contributions, even Toby has caused inspirations for OTHER people to 
create something in stained glass.
We are primarily first and foremost Human Beings with all the 
strengths and frailties that this entails, then - perhaps we re male 
and female - then after that we are Americans, Canadians, Brits, 
Swedes, - or whatever; then we are working in Stained Glass.....
To express, to work, to create, to realize Every and All of these 
various aspects need to be considered, excahnged, taught and learnt 
from. We are ALL very individualk personalities. For stained glass to 
really be growing and nurtured we need to have a very tender and 
accepting attitude about what makes a stained glass exponant. .

I have noted in this last week some quite upset comments from a whole 
host of people thinking that we ought to toe the line of strictly 
Questions & Answer type Group.  There has been some frustration 
expressed. Some disillusion. The energy, imagination, the life-force 
we all share in common, is just TOO strong for this restrictions. W
In these last couple of years ior so, we really HAVE become too 
intimate, to much "knowing" of each other. 
The "Oldies" will just have to take onboard the continuum process of 
having to "prime" the New Entrants.

Just look at the variety of stained Glass interpretations from Bungi 
People.    !!!
Strong convictions, strong life experiences, strong emotions; some of 
which borne out of 10-20-30-40 uyears or Living Life and expressing 
it through Stained Glass.

Not only that! But there is a tremendeous energy in trying to nurture 
the new, up-and-coming-generation ,AWAY from copying, to help them 
create their OWN work, their OWN style ; their OWN sweat ( Please 
Note; I layed down 
and cringed when one posting asked for a "pre-cut" stained glass 
design.........)

I have no fear of calling a spade a shovel - or starting a 
controversy.
But I for ONE, Do want to know about what touches you, makes you 
tick, get you irritated, what you look like, how many kids you've 
got, how many dimples you have, your off days, your on days.. I have 
found wonderful personalities and stained glass  exponants by digging 
away a little bit; someone who is virtually blind and still finds 
joy in creating glass; someone who is virtually crippled and 
paralyzed and moves about "fired" on by the love of stained glass  
and tghen creates some absolutelu exquisite stained glass....some 
wonderful examples of creativity, and so on and so on. ALL of 
this is an emotional response to the people in Bungi who are daring 
enough to reveal a little bit about themselves. 
That is Bungi.
I believe in that.
I live by that.


If you feel different, here are other addresses where your needs may 
be better met:

http://www.thestorefinder.com
                    hetleys.co.uk.baseframe/forum.html


Several others, but I am beginning to "droop"
Interested??? OK Fine, then contact me OFF-Group.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 16:44:14 1998
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From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Glass panels in kitchen cabnets
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:46:11 -0600
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Hi Dudley...

I use both silicone and glazier points for cabinet doors...Actually once the
silicone sets up it probably does most of the holding..I've notice on other
folks work (yes I always check out the competition!) that many use silicone
and just a few temporary finishing nails to hold it till it dries... I
bought the glaziers stapler I use at Woodworkers Supply... It cost $60 or
$70..Shoots both glaziers points and framers points for picture framing...
Works great! If your just doing the one project tho temp nails would do the
trick...

Byron...


>Dudley wrote:
> gonna attempt to make
>and put in glass pannels in my parents kitchen cabn=et
>doors,any suggestions would be alot of help,Thanx Damon<
>
>Christie replied:
>Well, I've re-used the existing wooden interior molding to hold in
>the panel, and that worked wonderfully, since they were built to
>hold in regular float glass.
>
>I've seen some with glass clips which didn't look like they
>did the job very well, as the panel was beginning
>to sag down at the bottom.
>----
>

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Subject: Re: white lines
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:17:46 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199802260017.TAA14680@water.waterw.com>
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>Hi Mike,
>
>If you want the lead black add black oxide to the cementing compound
>your using.  The more black oxide the blacker the mixture.
>A day after cementing take a large tampico bristle brush/no synthetic brushes,
>the harder you buff the shiner and darker the lead will become.
>If you want it the shine to remain, you can coat it with Everlast (which is
probably a
>varnish sealer...nothing on the label explains what it is.)  This will coat
or seal the lead
>while it establishes its own patina.  This stops the white effect that you
so often see growing on the lead.  Also it stops it from becoming dull.
>
>Hope this helps..
>
>my best,
>pj 
>
>
>
>>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 17:43:59 1998
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From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: taking apart a cemented panel
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:28:41 -0500
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>Hi all!
>
>I have a cemented panel that I need to take apart.  (two of the glass
>pieces are broken).   How do I go about doing that?  It seems I would have
>to melt the solder to disconnect the leadcame but how do I then get the
>glass pieces out of the lead channel?
>
>Thanks for any help!
>
>Dany


A long soak in hot water will soften up just about any cement.

Sarah


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 18:04:16 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
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Subject: white lines
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:53:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb25.145318.0>
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Hi pj-

Do you guys cement the windows
you put in insulated units?  We have
horrendous problems with that and
don't (not that we do too much of that
anyway - really discourage it when
asked.)  I'm wondering how much
climate affects the practice.

Best regards,

Dani =

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 18:18:05 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:mail@northlights.co.uk" <mail@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: white lines
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:53:25 -0500
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Hi Elisabeth-

Might work - though Michael thinks
even just using lamp black and a wad
of horsehair might still cause problems
in the insulated unit.  The dilemna here
is the insulated unit and the environment
within the seal, you see, and how if interacts
with lead (especially lead - zinc or brass =

wouldn't be so bad).

Float soldering means applying a thin
layer of solder over the entire surface of
the lead.  Why?  Well, we do it on occasion
when a customer wants copper channel
(like for Arts & Crafts style cabinets), but
doesn't care to pay the price.  If the lead
is soldered it will take a nice coppery =

patina.  Yes, it's a royal pain, but still
cheaper than the real thing.  Would probably
also work for Mike Simpson who needs
really, really black lead but can't employ
the traditional cement technique.  Black
patina would probably do better on that
surface.

On a related topic, have any of you ever
used Came Liner?  Would like some
feedback on the product.  TIA.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 18:22:37 1998
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From: "Laurean" <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Pattern Cutting
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 18:52:36 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.25236.0>
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Hi All!,
	Thanks again for answering my putty question!  Now I have
another one.  I am cutting a pattern, and am wondering, on the very
outside edge (would be the border). Do I use the pattern shears, or
do I use regular scissors?  I hope this is descriptive enough, cuz I can'=
t
think of any other way to describe it!.. To get a little chatty here.. =
We
are having the craziest weather, it's lightning and thundering and hailin=
g,
and coming right behind it is a blizzard!
Laurean

Eph 4:32

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 18:40:50 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:01:31 +0000
Message-ID: <199802260106.BAA26570@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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P.S.
Sorry about the many typographical  errors 
One final shot on this subject;


By the Grace of God I can SEE, I am fit; I am active; I Live Life to 
a disgusting level.
I should Not. I don't deserve it. I abuse it.
20 years go I a fought a life & death struggle to  retain the Gift of 
Sight (as a result of a rather horrendeous drug-related "mugging")
So I know how to SEE, I love LIFE, I love Colours. So when  someone 
e-mails me after I have watched their stained glass for about 12-18 
months to tell me that they are virtually blind, I sit up and take 
notice.......
I see joyous, delightful, fun stained glass and am then told that the 
creator  is paralyzed as a result of falling through a TERMITE ridden 
roof; a broken spine, a broken back, a Life full of pain killers and 
screen-fulls of fun stained glass.
The knowledge of this  has been very much "needled" out.

I have no time for  "get-rich-quick-merchants"
And so I will forever turn out to be a Cat Amongst the Pigeons.
Now and then I will actually make demands on Newbies to THINK,....
Bungi is full of wonderful talent; Bungi will make many personasl nd 
emotional points and statements and revealing of the person behind it 
all.

And.... shit.... don't YOU make demands of ME!!!!
That's Bungi!

If you don't like it, there are other alternatives.,

OFF Soap-Box !!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 18:46:34 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Chartres-  WOW Response !!!I repeat: Main Page, look for CLASSES
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:27:47 +0000
Message-ID: <199802260132.BAA30981@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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ThaNK YOU, THANK YOU- THANK YOU.


I wasn't apportioning ANY blame!!!
My Server has been on the blink for about 48 hours.
Thank you and  WILL reply to EACH and EVERY one!!!!

I repeat: Main Page; click on "classes" (half-way down on Home=Page), 
then  on "Clifton" ; then at the bottom of that page, click on 
reference to "Chartres".

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 19:14:26 1998
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From: Kris <kristc@home.com>
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Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:50:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb25.155027.0>
References: <<199802252342.XAA11476@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Organization: @Home Network
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What a wonderful letter! I'm rather new here and have just been lurking
and listening. I've learned SO much from you all. Yes, your various
personalities do come through your writing. What I love the best is your
willingness to give any and all help, and your obvious love for the art
of glass. You are all an inspiration to me as people and artists!

Kris (very much an amateur from FL, USA, with a hubby and 2 daughters,
who has been dreaming about glass cause she had to take a couple weeks
off to do some house fix ups. grrrr!)

Toby wrote:
> 
> Dear Bunginians,
> 
> My server has been down for about 2 days.... so no mail through
> Bungi. My time is limited; I'm probably the typical scenario of "Ask
> a Busy Person...."
> Hungry for stained glass contacts/News and NO Bungi mail, I "surfed".
> It was quite interesting what I have found. It also helped to prepare
> me to say what I am about to say now.
> 
> There are now quite a few strictly Questions & Answers Stained Glass
> Groups out there on the WEB; very cut and dried.  If that is what YOU
> are looking for, then I will give the addresses to them at the end of
> this E-mail. If all you are looking for is a kind of a Reference
> Resource then that - perhaps - is better suited to YOUR Requirements.
> 
> Bungi is a little bit different, a little bit special, to which Dave
> & Glenna try and imbue with an ethos of avoiding us "slaughtering"
> each other, using foul language, insults and destructiveness,   using
> Bungi as a means of off-loading ill manners, tempers and intolerance.
> (Quite Right Too!), towing the line of relating our communications to
> Stained Glass.
> 
> I had the great fortune of lurking, receiving and listening to Bungi
> very  early on in its Birth, I very early on picked up on amazing
> people and personalities regular to Bungi and over a period of a few
> years now, there are a number of people in Bungi I would almost sell
> my soul for to meet, to work with to learn from and to share with.
> Even to the extent of wishing to share my my own home with. Through
> the banter, through the "slightly off-subject" exchanges, I HAVE been
> able in reality to do just THAT. Some of you have found a friend in
> me for LIFE, I in you also.  Through Bungi, I have had visitors from
> South Africa, Canada and the USA.
> But we started off by touching a chord somewhere along the lines
> through our exchanges in Bungi Group.
> On so many levels we have started to know personal and intimate
> details of each other.
> There is nothing wrong in that. It helps us to communicate BETTER.
> We KNOW who the "grumpy" ones are, we know about the smokers, we know
> about each other's problems We know about Mike Savad, his dimples and
> his knowledge about Aliens; we know about Albert and his several
> "hats". We know about each other's pets, families, kids, handicaps.
> We even mourn and pay respect to unexpected deths (Bonnie - whom I
> remember very vividly myself). We used to have a period when we went
> to considerable trouble welcoming new subscribers from "exotic"
> parts.  In this last month we have had several new contributions from
> Germany, France, India. I admit I was remiss in not posting my usual
> "Welcome" e-mail, but I should not be the only one to spot these new
> people.  I too have a sort of a family life to sustain and maintain.
> I also have obligations and wishes to maintain and sustain a close
> relationship with the people "From Across The Pond" whom I have
> actually seen and touched physically.
> 
> Everything I see and do is ultimately related to stained glass; I
> earn my living through it. Another human being can push all sorts of
> buttons within me on a human, personal , artistic level.. From my own
> contributions, even Toby has caused inspirations for OTHER people to
> create something in stained glass.
> We are primarily first and foremost Human Beings with all the
> strengths and frailties that this entails, then - perhaps we re male
> and female - then after that we are Americans, Canadians, Brits,
> Swedes, - or whatever; then we are working in Stained Glass.....
> To express, to work, to create, to realize Every and All of these
> various aspects need to be considered, excahnged, taught and learnt
> from. We are ALL very individualk personalities. For stained glass to
> really be growing and nurtured we need to have a very tender and
> accepting attitude about what makes a stained glass exponant. .
> 
> I have noted in this last week some quite upset comments from a whole
> host of people thinking that we ought to toe the line of strictly
> Questions & Answer type Group.  There has been some frustration
> expressed. Some disillusion. The energy, imagination, the life-force
> we all share in common, is just TOO strong for this restrictions. W
> In these last couple of years ior so, we really HAVE become too
> intimate, to much "knowing" of each other.
> The "Oldies" will just have to take onboard the continuum process of
> having to "prime" the New Entrants.
> 
> Just look at the variety of stained Glass interpretations from Bungi
> People.    !!!
> Strong convictions, strong life experiences, strong emotions; some of
> which borne out of 10-20-30-40 uyears or Living Life and expressing
> it through Stained Glass.
> 
> Not only that! But there is a tremendeous energy in trying to nurture
> the new, up-and-coming-generation ,AWAY from copying, to help them
> create their OWN work, their OWN style ; their OWN sweat ( Please
> Note; I layed down
> and cringed when one posting asked for a "pre-cut" stained glass
> design.........)
> 
> I have no fear of calling a spade a shovel - or starting a
> controversy.
> But I for ONE, Do want to know about what touches you, makes you
> tick, get you irritated, what you look like, how many kids you've
> got, how many dimples you have, your off days, your on days.. I have
> found wonderful personalities and stained glass  exponants by digging
> away a little bit; someone who is virtually blind and still finds
> joy in creating glass; someone who is virtually crippled and
> paralyzed and moves about "fired" on by the love of stained glass
> and tghen creates some absolutelu exquisite stained glass....some
> wonderful examples of creativity, and so on and so on. ALL of
> this is an emotional response to the people in Bungi who are daring
> enough to reveal a little bit about themselves.
> That is Bungi.
> I believe in that.
> I live by that.
> 
> If you feel different, here are other addresses where your needs may
> be better met:
> 
> http://www.thestorefinder.com
>                     hetleys.co.uk.baseframe/forum.html
> 
> Several others, but I am beginning to "droop"
> Interested??? OK Fine, then contact me OFF-Group.
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 19:45:04 1998
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Fwd: Pattern Cutting
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 22:05:42 -0500
Message-ID: <199802260303.WAA25357@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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Laurean wrote:
>I am cutting a pattern, and am wondering, on the very
outside edge (would be the border). Do I use the pattern shears, or
do I use regular scissors?

Suzanne: Laurean, you use regular scissors around the very outside edge 
of a pattern.

As a matter of fact you could use regular scissors for the whole pattern 
if you want. It's easier, you might have to grind a bit more but works 
just as well I have discovered.

Where are you, with this strange weather?


Suzanne Albright
suzy@comcat.com


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 20:06:29 1998
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Subject: Re: Subject: Re: cameras
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:51:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb25.165156.0>
References: <<3.0.5.16.19980225081926.292f1d38@oregontrail.net>>
Precedence: bulk

York Photo Labs and Revco will develop Seattle Film.

Sandi ;-)

Douglas R. Terry wrote:

> should note that the film from them cannot be processed anywhere else as
> it's a special process to develop it. I was told it's movie film- rerolled?
>                 Doug Terry
>
> >Seatle Filmworks offer the photo on disk service.   They also supply the
> >software for viewing the photos.
> >
> >Seatle Filmworks
> >Elliott Bay at Pier 89
> >PO Box 34056
> >Seattle WA  98124-9956
> >(206)283-9074
> >
> >Sandi ;-)
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 20:13:06 1998
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X-Path: chescom.net!dmm
From: "Don McDonald" <dmm@chescom.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:22:54 -0600
Message-ID: <s4f48bcd.025@chescom.net>
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I love hearing stories about how glass makes us feel.  I love to hear
about how people get as frustrated as I when a piece just isn't
working. I like to know who I am talking to and listening to.  I'd far
rather listen to a real person with feelings and opinions and habits
and jobs and families than look up a question to find an answer. 


<<quoted message section follows>>

But I for ONE, Do want to know about what touches you, makes you 
tick, get you irritated, what you look like, how many kids you've 
got, how many dimples you have, your off days, your on days.. I have 
found wonderful personalities and stained glass  exponants by digging 
away a little bit; someone who is virtually blind and still finds 
joy in creating glass; someone who is virtually crippled and 
paralyzed and moves about "fired" on by the love of stained glass  
and tghen creates some absolutelu exquisite stained glass....some 
wonderful examples of creativity, and so on and so on. ALL of 
this is an emotional response to the people in Bungi who are daring 
enough to reveal a little bit about themselves. 
That is Bungi.
I believe in that.
I live by that.

----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 21:14:38 1998
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From: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:26:17 -0500
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Hello Bunginians,

I am new to the list. I found it by browsing Mike's web site and I am
glad I did. 

I have posted a couple of times without a proper introduction. This
message attemps to fill that gap.

My first impression of this list, as a stained glass newbie that I am,
was of surprise to see so many store names in the signatures of the
different contributions. I felt I might not belong here, that this
list was for real pros. I was sort of overwhelmed.

I have always liked stained glass. I love churches, which is kind of
contradictory since I am sort of agnostic. I love them as temples
attesting our past and as examples of the beauty human kind is able to
create. Needless to say, their windows have been captivating me for
years. No church I enter I will not stop to see its windows, that
depic usual religious acts, abstract designs, or even commemorate the
men in the Moon (as is the case with the Washington Natianal
Cathedral). Stained glass windows have always been a subject of my
photography.

For a long time I petted with the idea or learning how to do it. I
always thought it was a difficult and expensive craft. Then I noticed
that the local college offered courses. I did my homework and decided
it was for me. I started 2 months ago and as you very well assume, I
love it. I have only made one decent panel and I am now buildind my
first vase. I have created and used my own patterns (as Toby/Elizabeth
explains, I am trying to find my own personal style) and I am planning
to publish them in the homepage and make them freely available. My
panel is inspired in a detail of a window by Marc Chagall in the
Chicago Art Institute --American Window, if I recall correctly, of
which you can find a photo in my homepage. I had always admired
Chagall's work (not only glass, but also painting) and I am not trying
to copy his work, but rather find inspiration in it.

I live in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. I am a graduate student trying to
complete my PhD in COmputer Science --soon, I hope. Stained Glass is
trying to unleash the --little-- creativity that I might have. I feel
I am finding somebody who I did not know exists inside me. I am glad.

I hope to be able to contribute in whatever is at my reach and I hope
that, at the same time, you have patience while I endure the learning
curve of the trade. I am starting to feel I am part of this guild,
even if I am not planning to make it more than my artistic pasttime
instead of a way of live (as it is the case with many of you). But,
who knows, my craft side might very well take over my intelectual
side. For many years the former was overshadowed by the latter;
recently the former is gaining ground.

Toby/Elizabeth made feel welcomed into a warm, cozy place and I
thanked them for that.

dmg


--
Daniel M. German                  "The truth exists
   Georges Braque ->               --only fictions are invented"
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

 
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 21:45:58 1998
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From: Lyn Butler <lynb@gnt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: To foil or not to foil...
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:57:00 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb25.22570.0>
Precedence: bulk

Got a question...

I'm working on a piece that is about 20" square with a center circular
design measuring 10 1/2" diameter with lots of small pieces that I'm
foiling. Beyond that is a grid made up of 3 1/2"x4 1/2" squares and then
a border of rectangular pieces. My question is:  should I construct the
grid and border part of the piece with lead or should I continue to foil
as in the center part, including reinforcement. Thanks in advance for
your input.

Lyn

P.S. Well said, Elisabeth.
 

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 22:02:56 1998
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From: "Laurean" <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Re: Fwd: Pattern Cutting
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 22:51:54 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.65154.0>
References: <<199802260303.WAA25357@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Susan, and thanks for the advice!  I live in Northwest Iowa.
Where are you?

Laurean


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 22:16:49 1998
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:01:40 EST
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Well said, Elisabeth!

I agree.  I've learned not only about glass here, but about these people and
I've come to care about many of them.  Not just because they do glass.  But
because they are people worthy of respect and our attention and when we are
able to, our help and support.

Susie
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 22:21:24 1998
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Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 22:57:49 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.65749.0>
References: <<199802252342.XAA11476@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
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I agree with you 100%.  Knowing little things about people
makes sitting in front of this computer more bearable! And
now when I see a message from Mike, I'll be thinking of
his dimples! HA!

Laurean


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 22:48:54 1998
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Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:46:09 EST
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Amen !
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 23:18:44 1998
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From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Cutting frozen liquids, warm or cold...
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 01:10:03 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb25.17103.0>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

I've been sitting around cleaning my studio up from my most recent
project and letting my mind run rampant in anticipation of some new
glass, new work, clean bench, etc. While I was mentally meandering, I
was thinking about a previous discussion regarding the cutting of glass
when it was cold, when it was warm, and when it was "heated to
facilitate cutting".

I have some additional questions which were never brought up or
addressed in the previous discussion that I thought I'd like to toss out
there for others to chew on and to introduce our many newcomers to some
of the personalities here.

1) Isn't the molecular structure of glass that of a liquid in a frozen
state?

2) If the answer to #1 is yes, then try this out: take a very, very cold
ice cube and try to ACCURATELY split it down the middle after scoring
(scratching) it lightly with a sharp implement resembling an ice pick;
and THEN try the same procedure on an ice cube that has been allowed to
warm up just a bit in a heated room. Which comes closest to being more
accurate?

3) In cold a liquid contracts and in heat it expands, correct? If you
take another very, very, cold ice cube and while it's freshly cold score
it well- then drop it into a glass of warmish water. Does it
split/fracture? Does it split/fracture relatively accurately?

Any objective opinions here? Other experiments to try? The 5th through
8th grade classes at the school where I teach computer resource
part-time came up with some very interesting suggestions which I'm going
to field test. After their ideas have been trialed I may send along some
of the results if anyone else is interested. These classes couldn't
really had a difficult time understanding the scientific properties of
glass, but once they got it they were unstoppable in their comparisons
and rather imaginative in hypotheses!!

Adieu~
V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassowrks, Ltd.
"Good luck and remember Mr Phelps, that if you or any of your IMF team
should be caught..."
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 25 23:45:34 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 01:04:35 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.6435.0>
Precedence: bulk

   Well, I was deeply touched by what you wrote. Although you hit a nerve when
you stated you "cringed" when someone ( me) , said they wished for pre-cut
patterns. 
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, I will respect our differences.
    I have been doing stained glass for 9 years. I learned everything I know
from library  books. When I started out, I just knew I loved the craft and I
would do anything to learn. But there wasn't anyone around the area that
sold, or taught for that matter. I had to drive to B'ham (about 90 min) to buy
supplies. I have learned over the years mostly by trial and error. I know I
don't do everything right, but I do the best I can!!
I must say, the bungi group has been the greatest thing I have found. The
people are very helpful.
    Personal stuff... I'm 32, from North Alabama. I work full time in a custom
framing shop. I have 2 cats,12 horses, and 1 husband, Carl.
Newbie~ Susan
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 00:21:11 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Test
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:42:46 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.74246.0>
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Want to see if this goes through
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 04:54:57 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Mike Simpson <mike@jackel.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Bevel clusters
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:11:16 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.111116.0>
References: <<199802230827.IAA00393@jackel.demon.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

Mike,
  Try Kansa Craft who have been very helpful in supplying non standard
bevels to me.  
  Decorative glass supplies seem to be able to deliver good bevels too.

But don't expect rapid delivery of non-standard bevel clusters, as they
mostly come from the far east.


In message <199802230827.IAA00393@jackel.demon.co.uk>, Mike Simpson
<mike@jackel.demon.co.uk> writes
>I have recently landed a small contract to supply leaded glass
>panels for sealed unit double glazing units. (O.K., it's a lousy
>job - but somebody has to do it) Most of the panels are in
>variations of textured clear glass with bevel clusters and I am
>having difficulties in finding decent bevel clusters. 
.......
snip.....
-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 06:05:47 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: To foil or not to foil...
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:36:28 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.13628.0>
References: <<1998Feb25.22570.0>>
Organization: Summit Stained Glass  (see us at:  http://www.summitstudio.com)
Precedence: bulk

Lyn Butler wrote:
> 
> Got a question...
> 
> I'm working on a piece that is about 20" square with a center circular
> design measuring 10 1/2" diameter with lots of small pieces that I'm
> foiling. Beyond that is a grid made up of 3 1/2"x4 1/2" squares and then
> a border of rectangular pieces. My question is:  should I construct the
> grid and border part of the piece with lead or should I continue to foil
> as in the center part, including reinforcement. Thanks in advance for
> your input.
> 
> Lyn
> 
> P.S. Well said, Elisabeth.
> 
> 
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


Lyn,

I've mixed cames with foiled work many times.  It always seems to turn
out much better than I anticipated.  Consider using a few different
types of came, rounds and flats for example.  Consider a 3/8" or even
1/2" flat lead came to get a strong visual near the border, or to
accentuate some bevels ...... and keep the busy work in foil.  It'll
turn out just fine.

Mike Peck
Sunnit Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 06:29:12 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Cutting frozen liquids, warm or cold...
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:00:02 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.202.0>
References: <<1998Feb25.17103.0>>
Organization: Summit Stained Glass  (see us at:  http://www.summitstudio.com)
Precedence: bulk

NCScouter wrote:
> 
> 
> 1) Isn't the molecular structure of glass that of a liquid in a frozen
> state?
> 

I'm not a chemist, but have taken a few courses.  Glass is amorphous,
which simply means that it does not crystalize.  Solids are defined as
substances that maintain a crystaline structure.  When liquids freeze,
they crystalize ......  glass never forms a crystal structure....... so
I don't think it's correct to say that the structure of glass is that of
a liquid in a frozen state.

> 2) If the answer to #1 is yes, then try this out: take a very, very cold
> ice cube and try to ACCURATELY split it down the middle after scoring
> (scratching) it lightly with a sharp implement resembling an ice pick;
> and THEN try the same procedure on an ice cube that has been allowed to
> warm up just a bit in a heated room. Which comes closest to being more
> accurate?
> 

I think that temperature is a big factor in the dynamics of soilds. 
Colder objects tend to have less internal energy, they tend to be more
brittle, take less flexing to cause a break, etc.  You don't need an ice
cube to check this out, you could do the same thing with a brick, or a
dalle.  

> 3) In cold a liquid contracts and in heat it expands, correct? If you
> take another very, very, cold ice cube and while it's freshly cold score
> it well- then drop it into a glass of warmish water. Does it
> split/fracture? Does it split/fracture relatively accurately?
> 

Never tried this out, but I guess it would split or fracture pretty
quickly.  Let me know how it turns out!

> Any objective opinions here? Other experiments to try? The 5th through
> 8th grade classes at the school where I teach computer resource
> part-time came up with some very interesting suggestions which I'm going
> to field test. After their ideas have been trialed I may send along some
> of the results if anyone else is interested. These classes couldn't
> really had a difficult time understanding the scientific properties of
> glass, but once they got it they were unstoppable in their comparisons
> and rather imaginative in hypotheses!!
> 

It's great to hear about your interest in kids.  The only additional
thing I could suggest is that you explain for them the difference in
glass structure between clear float glass and tempered glass.  Give them
a demonstration on how these two different structures of glass break
differently.  Wear safety glasses!

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 06:44:12 1998
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: ouch!
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:34:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.3341.0>
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Message text written by Maureen:
>I have been working a panel in lead (my first love), and my fingertips a=
re
smarting.  I was wondering if anyone does/doesn't wear gloves when buildi=
ng
a
panel.  If so what kind...  I really need my fingertips to feel teeny tin=
y
pulses, veins and arteries on my day job...any suggestions?  tips?  (pun
intended).<

When do you notice your fingertips start to hurt?  During insertion of
the glass into the lead channels?  During puttying?  During whiting?

Christie A. Wood
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 08:02:25 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Comments
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:03:22 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980226090322.006a279c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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Good Morning Group...
	I am enjoying the mail recently on the list, very glassy!  And yes, I do
enjoy hearing the personal notes that make this list a little different
than the question and answer groups.  I expect that many of us are somewhat
gun shy about personal notes after being "grounded" recently and I also
expect that with the new format a lot of the personal notes are being sent
directly to the addressee rather than through the list.
	This brings me to my more recent observation of this list.  It seems that
the questions are far more visible than the responses.  My guess is that a
lot of the responses are being replied to privately.  We stand to lose a
lot of information this way.  I noted that most of the responses that I got
with my soldering problem were directed to my address rather than the list.
I have done this myself.
	I certainly hope that even if the questions/comments provoke a little
opinionated (but civil)	responses we continue to post directly to the list
and share all the wonderful information for which I have become additicted.
 Has anyone else noted this?

Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 08:21:07 1998
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From: TifStyOrig@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:11:27 EST
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Toby,
This was very touching........I loved every word of it!!!!!:>)  Eventhough I
am a very new entrant (4 months or so), I feel a cyber-kinship and can read
the personalities that spew from the posts......I agree with you,
wholeheartedly.

Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 08:37:05 1998
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From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Cat amongst the Pigeons
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:51:35 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb25.235135.0>
Organization: The Ivory Express
Precedence: bulk

What a beautifully said sentiment, Elizabeth 'n Toby.  I mostly lurk on
Bungi but I feel that I have become to "know" some of the contributors
and what makes them "tick".  Being the individuals  that we all are is
what make our art unique and special.  Hurray for individualism.  Even
though I have been in the business for 17 years I learn new things from
my fellow bungians all the time and I very much appreciate the input.  I
even learn new things from my students--they may come up with a new
approach to a problem and it turns out to be a better solution, in
stained glass, than the way I was taught.  I always welcome new and
innovative ideas in the art that we are all so passionate about.  Now I
will climb down off the old soapbox before I fall and hurt myself.
Thank you Elizabeth.
Dianne Maddison

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 08:58:38 1998
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From: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=iso-8859-1
Subject:  Re: Cutting frozen liquids, warm or cold...
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:41:30 -0500
Message-ID: <199802261441.JAA06600@aries17.uwaterloo.ca>
Precedence: bulk


Hi there,


> 3) In cold a liquid contracts and in heat it expands, correct? If you

Water is an exception to this rule. At some point (around 4 degrees
--Celsius-- if I am not mistaken) the water starts to expand again. 

Two events are a clear indication of this effect:

a) Icebergs. If ice was denser than liquid water, the iceberg will
sink. 

b) Bottles of liquids in the freezer --which, if left long enough,
explode. 



--
Daniel M. German                  "I see no good reason why the
                                   views given in this volume
                                   should shock the religious
   Charles Darwin ->               feelings of anyone."
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 09:05:22 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Dani Greer <"Greer Studios"@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Cameliner
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:42:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.44256.0>
Organization: Nadine's Folly
Precedence: bulk

Hi Dani!
I used Cameliner once in a large window 48" x 48" and was not at all
happy with its performance.  Though it snuggled up the glass a little
bit, it did not add the necessary strnegth that cementing does.  I used
copper stripping and rebar in that piece to give it *body*. . .and I
never used Cameliner again.  Perhaps on a smaller panel it would
suffice.  Just my opinion.
                                       Nadine

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 09:06:32 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: To foil or not to foil...
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:12:32 +0000
Message-ID: <199802261517.PAA19043@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi All,

With other words, to combine foil & lead, or not to combine...?
Go ahead - says I.
No reason at all why you should not combine the 2.
Would even make for added interest.
I occasionally do just that; e.g. the Oxford C-o-A in the St.Francis 
Panel on my web-site is a copper-foil piece inserted into a leaded 
panel. 
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

P.S. .... Thank you Lyn

Lyn wrote:
Got a question...

I'm working on a piece that is about 20" square with a center circular
design measuring 10 1/2" diameter with lots of small pieces that I'm
foiling. Beyond that is a grid made up of 3 1/2"x4 1/2" squares and then
a border of rectangular pieces. My question is:  should I construct the
grid and border part of the piece with lead or should I continue to foil
as in the center part, including reinforcement. Thanks in advance for
your input.

P.S. Well said, Elisabeth.
 

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 09:33:30 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Vaguely SG..... A Sample..
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:12:32 +0000
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Hi All,

I am quoting below a little sample of the type of e-mail I  found 
in astonishing abundance this morning when I finally crept out of 
bed......  ;-)

To All Newbies and Anyone else  worried about what response you 
might get from Bunginians:
 there are literally HUNDREDS of wonderful 
poeople out there, I KNOW, I have even met some of them myself - 
against all odds.
Don't get frightened off by illtempered "rat-bags"!! Just dip your 
toe in the water and join in. There are plenty of us who will keep 
those "nasty sharks" at bay.....
And thank you "MD" for the following:



 I'm new to Bungi, and have a strong sense that 
there are some truly delightfull people who are a part of it, after 
reading your incredibly sensitive and caring post. It was very 
uplifting for me to know that your kind of caring is out there.

Keep cutting....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 09:37:35 1998
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X-Path: flash.net!artglass
From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Photography
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:19:21 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.01921.0>
Organization: The Ivory Express
Precedence: bulk

I have been reading all the input about photographing stained glass and
at the risk of sounding really stupid I must ask a question.  Doesn't
the Kodak Royal Gold, ASA 400, work good?  That is what I have been
using because it is supposed to work in all lighting situations.  I also
can have it developed to 3.5 floppy for the computer.  When I have it
developed on disk I get disk, negatives, plus prints. I really would
like to know more about the photography aspect so as to get the best
pictures possible.  Thanks guys.
Dianne Maddison

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 10:11:07 1998
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X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover
From: "Laurean" <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Intro.
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 09:44:09 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.17449.0>
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Well, seeing eveyone else is introducing themselves, I might as well too!
As you know, I am Laurean.  I am married to Val.  We have 4 children
Brianna, Vicki, Eli, and Helen.  We have 2 dogs Fish and Chips.  I
am a stay at home mom, and homeschool.  We are also fixing up an
old house in town (we live in the country) and are building a new house
behind this old one.   I have been doing glass for 5 years.  And NEVER
have enough time for it!   Glass is my passion.  Its real funny how it =
turned
out to be this way.   My hubbys big dream is to move to Alaska, go to Bib=
le
college (to become a preacher) (I can't see me as a preachers wife!), pan
for gold in the summer, and build windows in the winter.  Nice dream huh?
So we both took classes from a guy, and I am the one doing it.  I have =
sold
two panels, and consider that a great achievment! :-)  That's about it!

Laurean
Eph 4:32

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 10:11:41 1998
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Cutting frozen liquids, warm or cold...
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 08:58:34 -0700
Message-ID: <m0y85hk-000LiCC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1998Feb25.17103.0>>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
> I've been sitting around cleaning my studio up from my most recent
> project and letting my mind run rampant in anticipation of some new
> glass, new work, clean bench, etc. While I was mentally meandering, I
> was thinking about a previous discussion regarding the cutting of glass
> when it was cold, when it was warm, and when it was "heated to
> facilitate cutting".
>
> I have some additional questions which were never brought up or
> addressed in the previous discussion that I thought I'd like to toss out
> there for others to chew on and to introduce our many newcomers to some
> of the personalities here.
>
> 1) Isn't the molecular structure of glass that of a liquid in a frozen
> state?

not quite. i posted an explanation about this maybe a year ago? should be in  
the archives, or i could try to dig it out again.

<snip>
>
> 3) In cold a liquid contracts and in heat it expands, correct? If you
> take another very, very, cold ice cube and while it's freshly cold score
> it well- then drop it into a glass of warmish water. Does it
> split/fracture? Does it split/fracture relatively accurately?

again, not really. some things don't. water, for instance, shrinks until 4C,  
and then expands as it gets colder. ever freeze a filled glass bottle (bottle  
of wine in the freezer (don't ask me how i know this))?

<snip>

> Adieu~
> V T Phelps
> Shoreline Glassowrks, Ltd.
---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 10:20:47 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4
From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: lynb@gnt.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: To foil or not to foil...
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:05:49 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.16549.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Lyn, I would use lead came for your grid work simply because it will give
you a more uniform (straighter) line, and the two methods are easily mixed.you
can use a similiar size came or for a more dramatic effect you can use a
larger came to make it stand out a little.In a 20"x20" if you putty the lead
came and border your project with 3/8 or 1/2 in." zinc I don't feel that you
would need to do any other type of reinforcement,between the zinc and the
putty this should add plenty of strength to the window.Beveler4@aol.com(Stan)
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 10:51:02 1998
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X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover
From: "Laurean" <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: "Barbara" <bjs10@cornell.edu>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Re: Comments
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 10:25:38 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.182538.0>
References: <<3.0.2.32.19980226090322.006a279c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Barbara,
	What I do is hit the reply all button,
and it goes directly to you, and to bungi.  If I
want to reply privately, then I hit the reply author.

Laurean

----------

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 10:54:29 1998
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X-Path: oregontrail.net!dterry
From: "Douglas R. Terry" <dterry@oregontrail.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Comments
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:05:39 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.5.16.19980226090539.2b5f15b2@oregontrail.net>
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yes iv've seen this and think its to sad. you are very right
	doug terry

his brings me to my more recent observation of this list.  It seems that
>the questions are far more visible than the responses.  My guess is that a
>lot of the responses are being replied to privately.  We stand to lose a
>lot of information this way.  I noted that most of the responses that I got
>with my soldering problem were directed to my address rather than the list.
>I have done this myself.
>	I certainly hope that even if the questions/comments provoke a little
>opinionated (but civil)	responses we continue to post directly to the list
>and share all the wonderful information for which I have become additicted.
> Has anyone else noted this?
>
>Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 11:02:33 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Comments
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:04:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.7412.0>
References: <<3.0.2.32.19980226090322.006a279c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Precedence: bulk

Barbara wrote:
> 
> Good Morning Group...
>         I am enjoying the mail recently on the list, very glassy!  And yes, I do
> enjoy hearing the personal notes that make this list a little different
> than the question and answer groups.  I expect that many of us are somewhat
> gun shy about personal notes after being "grounded" recently and I also
> expect that with the new format a lot of the personal notes are being sent
> directly to the addressee rather than through the list.
>         This brings me to my more recent observation of this list.  It seems that
> the questions are far more visible than the responses.  My guess is that a
> lot of the responses are being replied to privately.  We stand to lose a
> lot of information this way.  I noted that most of the responses that I got
> with my soldering problem were directed to my address rather than the list.
> I have done this myself.
>         I certainly hope that even if the questions/comments provoke a little
> opinionated (but civil) responses we continue to post directly to the list
> and share all the wonderful information for which I have become additicted.
>  Has anyone else noted this?
> 
> Barbara
> ----


oh yeah, i personally complained about it, when it was first put in. i
mainly stated that it's now a newsgroup and not a listserv. what would
happen is that people will automatically hit re:mail, and after it's
sent you then find out that you sent it to 1 person and not everyone. 

and doing it re:all means that you get 2 or more pieces of mail. quite a
few times i got mail from one person to another person with the bungi
sig at the bottom... it would be alot better if it was changed back to
the way it was... i'm not sure why it was changed to this format in the
first place.

---Mike Savad




-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 11:35:42 1998
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X-Path: bc.sympatico.ca!tuka
From: Doug & Shiela Dunn <tuka@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: SusieHUs@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:48:52 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.04852.0>
References: <<1998Feb26.5140.0>>
Organization: Shiela A. Dunn, C.G.A.
Precedence: bulk

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Well said, Elisabeth!
> 
> I agree.  I've learned not only about glass here, but about these people and
> I've come to care about many of them.  Not just because they do glass.  But
> because they are people worthy of respect and our attention and when we are
> able to, our help and support.
> 
>RIGHT ON !!


 Susie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 11:37:59 1998
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X-Path: dlr
From: dlr (Dave Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: General reply issues
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:50:33 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <m0y87S5-0000bPC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

Two people on the list have commented to me now that they would welcome
a return to the "old form" of the list, where replies were auto-directed
to the list, rather than the individual.

All mail programs have the ability to do a "replyall" feature, which will
copy the list on all replies.  None the less, I am sympathetic to those
that would enjoy this feature.  I participate in both types of mailing
lists.  Both types have problems, it is a matter of choosing the
appropriate format for the glass list.

Please address your comments to me privately, as I'm not on the glass
list... I already receive over 700 mail messages per day.

Thanks much!
Dave Rand
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 11:38:16 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Pattern Search Assistance-Thank you
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:09:49 -0800
Message-ID: <199802261759.JAA14757@intergate.lasercom.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Harold,

Across the oceans, around the world, we never know where our help will come
from.  Thanks to you (and Bungi) I have begun work on the new project for
my daughter.

Thank you so very much for all your most gracious help. I appreciate the
time you took (in this busy world) to assist me. How lucky we are to have
Bungi. Without Bungi I never would have found your web site and you.

Jean
jean@lasercom.net

(NOTE: Listers, if you haven't gone to this German site, do check it out.
He even has some free download patterns.) 

-------------------


> >From: Bastelzauber <Bastelzauber@t-online.de>
> >
> >http://www.bastelzauber.com/
> >Muenster/Germany
> 
> >Tel 0049 251 42320
> >fax 0049 251 42322
 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 12:20:59 1998
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Photography
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 10:55:40 -0700
Message-ID: <m0y87X5-000LiCC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1998Feb26.01921.0>>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
> I have been reading all the input about photographing stained glass and
> at the risk of sounding really stupid I must ask a question.  Doesn't
> the Kodak Royal Gold, ASA 400, work good?  That is what I have been
> using because it is supposed to work in all lighting situations.  I also
> can have it developed to 3.5 floppy for the computer.  When I have it
> developed on disk I get disk, negatives, plus prints. I really would
> like to know more about the photography aspect so as to get the best
> pictures possible.  Thanks guys.
> Dianne Maddison

in photography, slower is almost always better, or it used to be that way for  
a long time. better grain, better color saturation. however that brings up  
problems, like you need more light, longer exposures, tripod, etc. some of the  
newer films seem to break this rule as the manufacturers are developing (pun  
not intended) better film stock.

what i want to know about is: what's the deal with kodak color max? from the  
ads (ad nauseum during the US olympic broadcasts) and from reading the box, it  
doesn't seem to have an asa rating?

---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 12:53:05 1998
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Subject: Cameliner
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:	Nadine Beth Schneider, INTERNET:nadinesfolly@erols.com
DATE:	2/26/98 12:15 PM

RE:	Cameliner

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Thanks for the reply, Nadine, and I'm forwarding it to the group so
that Mike Simpson also gets your opinions. I suggested it to him as
a possibility for his insulated unit project in which he cannot use
cement.  We've never used the stuff - sounds terribly time-consuming.

Hi Dani!
I used Cameliner once in a large window 48" x 48" and was not at all
happy with its performance.  Though it snuggled up the glass a little
bit, it did not add the necessary strnegth that cementing does.  I used
copper stripping and rebar in that piece to give it *body*. . .and I
never used Cameliner again.  Perhaps on a smaller panel it would
suffice.  Just my opinion.
                                       Nadine

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Subject: Re: solder problems
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:35:05 -0500
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:	Barbara, INTERNET:bjs10@cornell.edu
TO:	"Michael J. Greer", GreerStudios
DATE:	2/25/98 11:43 PM

RE:	Re: solder problems

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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:41:16 -0500
To: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: solder problems
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Hi Barbara-  I'm posting the following about zinc reacting with solder an=
d =

causing soldering problems because I think the whole group would be inter=
ested.
(and I promise to show greater respect for Michael's lectures no matter h=
ow
crazy they sound!)

Hi Dani,
	Don't look now but, Michael is right... according to Hank's response.  I=

have copied the information he sent me below.  BTW... I bought a new iron=
,
starting to solder this evening a snapped a piece of glass, in the center=

of the piece of course.  This project is doomed !!

Michael... I hope you enjoy this :

First we are going to cover melting points of the metals use in
soldering.

Lead	327.4C
Tin	231.9C

Zinc	419.5C

The values are for the pure solid.  Impurities in either would lower the
melting point.

Eutectic, is from the Greek word, "easily melted".  Having zinc in
contact with the solder would raise the melting point.  Which in turn
would require a hotter iron.  Zinc reacts slowly with ammonia, a
fragment of your flux, ammonium chloride.  This could be the cause of
fouling on the soldering tools.  Cleaning the tools as suggested should
remedy the problem.



At 07:53 PM 2/25/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Barbara-
>
>I would be interested in any info
>your friend might have .... and =

>Michael is drooling!  Have you
>tried cleaning the tip well and
>then soldering again?  I'd be
>curious to find out if it does the
>trick.
>
>Best,
>
>Dani
>
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From: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
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Subject: Re: Photography
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:44:25 -0500
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Charles Spitzer twistes the bytes to say:

 Charles> You wrote:
 >> I have been reading all the input about photographing stained glass and
 >> at the risk of sounding really stupid I must ask a question.  Doesn't
 >> the Kodak Royal Gold, ASA 400, work good?  That is what I have been
 >> using because it is supposed to work in all lighting situations.  I also
 >> can have it developed to 3.5 floppy for the computer.  When I have it
 >> developed on disk I get disk, negatives, plus prints. I really would
 >> like to know more about the photography aspect so as to get the best
 >> pictures possible.  Thanks guys.
 >> Dianne Maddison

 Charles> in photography, slower is almost always better, or it used to be that way for  
 Charles> a long time. better grain, better color saturation. however that brings up  

Indeed. Have anybody tried ISO 25?

 Charles> problems, like you need more light, longer exposures, tripod, etc. some of the  
 Charles> newer films seem to break this rule as the manufacturers are developing (pun  
 Charles> not intended) better film stock.

 Charles> what i want to know about is: what's the deal with kodak color max? from the  
 Charles> ads (ad nauseum during the US olympic broadcasts) and from reading the box, it  

I guess I am lucky not to have a TV and read my news from the Globe
and Mail :)

 Charles> doesn't seem to have an asa rating?

You have not looked close enough :) The box has, in its side, the ISO
rating of the film: ISO800. What happens is that this film has a huge
exposure latitude, which in effect makes possible to shoot photos
taken from the equivalent of ISO50 all the way to ISO1600.

I have tried. The last time I was in the Washington National Cathedral
I shoot a roll. I got decent photos but they are not great.  It
certainly works with ISO1600, but the results are below my standards.
I would rather stick to Fuji SuperG 800. I did not attempt big
overexposures.

Its use depends on what you call a good photo. Most people just want
something that shows they where in a certain place at a certain time
and they might not care about colour saturation or grain.

Stained Glass photos, in my opinion, should deliver the beauty of the
colours, hence colour saturation is critical. If my advise has any
value to anybody, I invite you to try Agfa HDC100 (and please, take it
go a good developer --would you save a couple of bucks in buying
cheaper and uglier glass if you want to show off your work?. Its
depth, rich colours will jump at you.

I'd not use 400 or faster film for SG.  Using a tripod is always a
must, IMHO, as it makes me think about what I am shooting and allows
me to put attention to --and avoid-- the natural distortion created by
having the camera back in a plane not perfectly parallel to the one of
the work. (As an exercise, position yourself from the other side of a
rectangular building, now, through the camera, see it upwards, you
will notice that the parallel lines of the building are translated
into converging lines in the viewfinder; now, lower the camera to have
the bottom of the building in the middle: the lines should be fairly
parallel).

happy shooting!


 Charles> ---
 Charles> Charles Spitzer
 Charles> charlie@az.stratus.com
 Charles> Phoenix, AZ
 Charles> ----
 Charles> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
 Charles> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
 Charles> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


--
Daniel M. German                  "For indeed who is there alive
                                   that will not be swayed by his
                                   bias and partiality to
    Jonathan Swift ->              the place of his birth?"
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

 
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sorry susan I also sent this to you but meant it for bungi too

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>   Well, I was deeply touched by what you wrote. Although you hit a nerve
when
>  you stated you "cringed" when someone ( me) , said they wished for pre-cut
>  patterns. 
Susan,
It doesn't matter whether you draw your own patterns or use someone elses,
either way you will have good and bad responses.  I know that doesn't make
sense but I will explain.
  I have had a lot of art in my past majoring in it at school and always
sketching, usually my best work is when I am alone and moody, you laugh.  So I
have always felt like art is my outlet, but it wasn't really getting me
anywhere, my sketches are in a box not doing anything or anyone any good
except reminding me of how I felt at that time period.
   When I started stained glass it was kind of a father daughter bonding
thing, he was always good with his hands at woodworking, and had brought both
his sons into his field of Lithographics, but me, well he never really knew
how to comunicate with me to showme how to do things.  So a few years ago he
was incorporating his glass into his woodwork, doing headboards and making
frames and I decided he should make me a humming bird, so I bought a casting.
Well he wasn't really into that type stuff so on the next visit there he sat
me down and showed me each step and would walk away so I could complete that
step.  I did my first piece and was so happy he had taught me and something we
could share, but I was not to stay in a structured area, funny I was just like
him in that way.  I couldn't stay with just patterns, O I have bought quite a
few but used so few of them.  I like to design my own.  my second piece was
for him, he collects owls so I drew an owl and made it a picture frame, with
the belly being the area for the pic.  But I was always embarrased to admit
that a lot of my stained glass work was self taught, trial and error and most
of my own designs or drawn from a pic of something I saw.  Of course the owner
of the stained glass store in my area made it worse by giving the air like my
work was beneath him, so I don't admit alot to others that I do it the hard
way or learn from others (a lot of bungi help, have I said thank you lately?)
So go ahead and learn stained glass your way do it the way YOU want to maybe
youare excelling more in the lines of how to place glass and textures and
later you will venture out to design, maybe not, but that doesn't mean you
aren't good at it or just LOVE it.
    BULLITON:  the owner of the store as others have heard from me is doing
some kind of transformation, (I was wondering if he is lurking on bungi)  he
has actually shown me how to do stepping stones (before that was beneath him
too) he now stocks filigree, besides the dragon flies, and  he is also doing
bird baths in mosaic, he IS now very helpful, (are you sure he isn't lurking?)
he is even stocking glass supplies for bead making (ok I even think that is
money thrown away, I just don't see how many beads a person can sell IF you
can even sell them just to cover your fun costs).  Ok so he still asks me if I
have any single friends, but he has gotten better. LOL  short ps how come I
can't spell???
deb
the newyorker sent to live in a tiny town in SE TX who gets started on a short
post and rambles, sorry I guess thats why I don't post too much LOL
   

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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
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Subject: Copy of: Re: Comments
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:13:35 -0500
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:   Michael J. Greer, 105715,1412
TO:     "Douglas R. Terry", INTERNET:dterry@oregontrail.net
DATE:   2/26/98 1:38 PM

RE:     Copy of: Re: Comments

Perhaps alot of people jumped
ship when bungi was down for
a few days.  I know I almost did.
We may have lost some members
who were more vocal and active in
their responses.  For my part, I try
to remember to send by replies to
the entire group, too.  When I =

receive a reply directly from an
individual, I also forward that to
the group.

Just for my 2c worth - I have no problem
with the rule to "stick to glass" on this
forum.  I have gotten to know many =

people personally ... off-bungi.  That works
just fine, and frankly, even when we're
talking glass, personalities come across
anyway.  If I don't care for the rules, I have
options.  I can drop off the list, I can start
my own list, etc.  Or I can enjoy what's
available here, just the way it is and
nothing has to be different.  I guess I =

learned a long time ago that life is alot
better when you don't try to push rivers!

And speaking of glass....;-)

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 15:13:36 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: comments
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:23:49 -0600
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Elisabeth said:

There has been some frustration
expressed. Some disillusion. The energy, imagination, the life-force
we all share in common, is just TOO strong for this restrictions. W
In these last couple of years ior so, we really HAVE become too
intimate, to much "knowing" of each other.

Elisabeth,

You certainly disspell the myth of the cold hearted Scandinavian.  :-)

Thanks for coming forward with your passionate observations.

It seems some of us are a little gun-shy since Mr Rand 's decision not to
allow us to sort out our own problems on list. If we can ever rekindle the
spirit of this group it might be a while in coming .  I have noticed a lack
of posts from some of the more animated listees and I miss them .

I've hung out with artists and musicians for as long as I can remember and
alot of them don't give a hoot about political correctness and restricted
thinking or what anybody has to say about them personally. Some of them are
downright obnoxous, arrogent , self-serving, opinionated egomaniacs at
times.

I'm not quite sure what my point is here but I'll think of something since I
already typed out that whole paragraph

Oh yeah.......... this list is not about car engines or OS/390 platforms or
laundry detergents. Its about a subject that  at times may bring on any or
all of the above mentioned behavior in varying degrees, more often then not
just as a temporary outburst . When bungi got heated up it was the trolls,
as trolls do, that  perpetuated disagreements  that would have petered out
on their own soon enough.  I have always gotten more out of an animated
debate then a straight back chair, tea cup on the lap thing. And I like to
know a little about who I'm talking to also.

I'll try  to contribute to this list as much as I can, time permitting
.....it is the only real connection that I have to SG anymore since I quit
the business. But if it gets boring and  overly pragmatic, its the lurk mode
for me.

When the list was shut down I contacted Mr Rand and asked for  the  email
addresses of all the bunginians. There is another SG email list, and I did
not know when he intended to turn Bungi back on.  I was in the mood for
mutiny and hoped to get a good part of the bungi crowd to jump ship. For the
record, Mr Rand did not provide me with the list and in fact he did not
reply at all .... probably much too busy



Below  are the two post from the list owners ( the *turn off* and *the turn
on*)  when according to them they had  ENOUGH!  .............* note the
technical changes*

Len

peace in our time

............................................................................
........................................
We've had enough.
I've disabled the glass alias for the time being.  Once people
settle down, I'll consider turning it back on.
The stained glass list is not about flaming people, or talking
about editing, or discussing the weather.  We don't have time
to moderate it.  People *can* control themselves.  Honest.
We are all (I believe) over the age of 8.  Let's act like
it.
Dave Rand / Glenna Rand
+1 408 254-7111
----
The stained glass list at bungi.com has been reopened.  There have been
some technical changes as well.
As a reminder to all, the stained glass list is intended to be a resource
that people can use to discuss issues related to glass work.  It is not for
discussing the personal habits of people, or their probably parentage.  We
*do not* want to moderate this list.  We feel that people should have the
ability to express their ideas openly.
Please; this list goes to over 400 people, all around the world.  There
*will* be differences of opinion.  If so, please take it offline.  To that
end, I have made a technical change in how the list works.  Before, replying
would automatically send to the stained glass list.  Now, replying will send
the message back only to the originator.  If your reply is meant for the
list as well, you will need to change the To: address to glass@bungi.com.
Hopefully, this minor change will both help avoid the recent flame-fests,
and help people stay in a positive frame of mind.
Let us know if you have any questions.
Dave & Glenna Rand
--



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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 15:22:40 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: stained glass school and celtic knots...
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:42:54 -0500
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i just go this site, it's for a glass school in europe. though the work
their caught my eye. under EXPO there's a choice to see students works,
and (i believe), that their all celtic knots... or at least i think they
are. 

i know some have asked for patterns, from what i can see there done in
clear, ...instant pattern.


http://www.esvc.vsnet.ch/


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 15:43:18 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Stove Polish
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:54:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.125453.0>
Precedence: bulk

Well, lo and behold if I didn't
by accident stumble across the
stove black that Elisabeth in UK
talks about.  It's available from
Cumberland General Store in
Crossville, Tennessee 1-800-334-4640.
It's called Rutland Stove Polish and =

sells for $6.25 a tube.  It's made up
of "A water-based emuslfication of =

quality natural waxes combined with
some of the blacker pigments known.
Buffs to high luster..."   You get the
idea.  Hope this helps somebody!

Best regards,

DAni Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 16:47:38 1998
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X-Path: oakland.edu!psdisney
From: Phyllis Disney <psdisney@oakland.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: redwood tree pattern
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:57:36 -0500
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I'm looking for a stained glass pattern for a redwood tree(s). Pine
won't do, but I'd rather not draw it myself. This is for a window panel,

about 24" x 36", though I can adjust and refit any pattern. I'm just not

good at drawing trees in general.

Phyllis D.

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 17:10:26 1998
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X-Path: sleepy.ebtech.net!proffire
From: proffire@sleepy.ebtech.net
To: glass@bungi.com, "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Summary: Authenticated sender is <proffire@mail.ebtech.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:57:32 +0000
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> From:          "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
> 
> 
> Hello Bunginians,
> 
> I am new to the list. I found it by browsing Mike's web site and I
> am glad I did. 
>
Welcome Daniel,

You are correct that there are a lot of "Pros" on this list but don't 
let that scare you.  I have been primarily a lurker here for a couple 
years but it never ceases to amaze me of the generosity of the 
members of this group.  At times we'll bitch and complain about 
someone's comments or habits but you will always get the straight 
goods. 

Doug Scale
Corunna, Ontario


"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine."

 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 17:29:22 1998
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Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
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>
> Subject:       Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
> Date:          Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:37:47 +0000

>
Elisabeth,

Wow!!  And to think that English is your second language!!  I am 
forever in awe of how you express your feelings  (and those of many 
of the group as well even if we don't say it).


Thanks for always stating your much appreciated opinions.

Doug Scale
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 17:52:26 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Comments
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 19:00:52 -0500
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Mike wrote:
> i'm not sure why it was changed to this format in the
>first place.

Suzanne guesses:
Because we were all being spanked for being bad little girls and boys.



Suzanne Albright
suzy@comcat.com


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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 18:09:51 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting frozen liquids, warm or cold...
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:40:06 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.23406.0>
References: <<1998Feb25.17103.0@?>>
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In message <1998Feb25.17103.0@?>, NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com> writes
.......<snip>........
>
>1) Isn't the molecular structure of glass that of a liquid in a frozen
>state?
>
Well....  No.  To quote from "Conservation of Glass" by Roy Newton and
Sandra Davison, p.3&4:

>From a scientific  standpoint, glass may be defined as the product of
the fusion of inorganic materials which has been cooled to a hard
condition without crystalization taking place.  A clear understanding of
the structure of glass has only been achieved in the last 45 years.
Zachariasen was the first to make a significant advance and it is as a
result of his work, and that of subsequent researchers, that it is now
realized that the atoms in glass are linked together by strong forces,
essentially the same as those in crystals.  Thus it is misleading to
describe glass as a supercooled liquid (as has formerly been the case),
at least when it is below the transition temperature.  

Later, on page 14 the transition temperature is described as the point
at which the temperature is high enough for the molecular structure to
become more random than in cooler anealed glass .

(the spelling errors are mine, although I'd prefer to use 's' instead of
'z' pronounced 'zed'.  I guess it' the result of being in the UK for
30years.  And inspite of the saying "you can take the person out of
Kansas, but you cant take the Kansas out of the person")

I'll still be interested to learn of the results of your experiments
with ice cubes.

-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 18:24:03 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: white lines
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:05:50 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.0550.0>
References: <<1998Feb25.145318.0@?>>
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In message <1998Feb25.145318.0@?>, "Michael J. Greer"
<GreerStudios@compuserve.com> writes
>Hi pj-
>
>Do you guys cement the windows
>you put in insulated units?  We have
>horrendous problems with that and
>don't (not that we do too much of that
>anyway - really discourage it when
>asked.)  I'm wondering how much
>climate affects the practice.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani =
>
Dani,
When I have been asked to adapt existing panels to be placed inside
double glazed uints by a Double glazing firm for which i do some work,
they require that I use butyl putty when any replacement leading is
needed.  This is the stuff they use to seal the units into the (plastic)
frame and into the window opening.

Of course, you don't make the came black when cleaning this stuff up
(and it is messy),  so some patina on the leads and solder joints is
necessary.

-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 18:50:46 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Daniela Birkelbach <dany@city-net.com>
Subject: Re: taking apart a cemented panel
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:14:33 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.01433.0>
References: <<199802252313.SAA29759@dns.city-net.com>>
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In message <199802252313.SAA29759@dns.city-net.com>, Daniela Birkelbach
<dany@city-net.com> writes
>Hi all!
>
>I have a cemented panel that I need to take apart.  (two of the glass
>pieces are broken).   How do I go about doing that?  It seems I would have
>to melt the solder to disconnect the leadcame but how do I then get the
>glass pieces out of the lead channel?
>
>Thanks for any help!
>
>Dany


Dany,
I know you have received a few replies on this already.  Hwere is my
10pence worth (inflation having hit the UK more than the USA, maybe).

I assume the panel has been made in the last year or less.  On that
basis, I would cut the came either side of the solder joints, but very
close, and work toward the broken glass.  The cement should not be very
hard yet, and can be eased out with a lead knife or fid from between the
came and the glass.  The glass then becomes loose again and can be
pulled from the came.

After the glass has come free from the cames, you can cut the solder
joint to the length you will require with a firm lead knife.  It takes
more pressure and longer than cutting came but it can be done, if you
are careful and keep hands and glass away from the cutting.

When you have the broken glass repaired, you can cut and place new came
around the glass and make new solder joints.  The cleaning of the cement
will darken the lead and joints to the colour of the older materials.

At least, I find this way works with both old and newer panels.  (I hope
my description is adequate - I'm better at showing than describing)

-- 
Steve Richard
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 19:01:48 1998
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From: Classydad <Classydad@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Cat eyes
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:48:36 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.04836.0>
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Any suggestions on affixing some "eyes" to a small cat suncatcher.  I tried
cutting out some small eyes out of copper foil.  After burnishing, I touched
them lightly with a droplet of solder.  Each lifted up slightly, I assume due
to the heat.  What are other options?  Perhaps a solder-colored stained glass
paint?  Thanks.
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 19:02:37 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: To foil or not to foil...when to patina
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:57:45 -0800
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Hey there...with all this discussion about combining foil and came I'm
curious to know what the puttying process might do to patina on the foiled
part.  

Specifically we're talking a brass came window, with a black patina destined
for the foiled sections...should I apply patina before or after the putty?

Another question (again related to this window)...what happens if I only
putty one side of some pieces which have a great texture on the back (e.g.
crocodile glass or heavy ripple glass)?  This is a room divider and putty is
needed only to hold the pieces from rattling.  

Thanks

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 19:10:22 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: pkelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Cats, Pigeons, Elizabeth, et al
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 1980 12:02:01 -0600
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Go Get'um Girl.

Thanks Elizabeth & Toby. Your server was down and I guess you were
saving up all those words. I'll bet Toby's big ears were burning.(8-).

Welcome everybody (don't want to leave anyone out for fear of another
tounge lashing). Isn't it great to correspond with such a diverse group
of people that has something in common ... Stained Glass.

By way of introduction (for those of you who don't know me):

My name is Patrick Kelly, married, 2 sons (educated, grown, and gone), 4
cats (no pigeons), and 1 Jenda Conjur (parrot). I live in Central Texas,
USA. I am a Management Analyst during the day, teach computer science at
night, and retire to my garage to work on my therapy (stained glass)
whenever I get chance.

I have learned sooooo much from this group about stained glass and life
that when it went down I felt I had lost many friends, forever. When it
was reborn my heart was like one of the hot-air ballons that we make;
bright, beautiful, and rising above it all. When I talk to artist that
have been professionals for years and I offer some insight into thier
work or a suggestion they often reply ..... "Where did you learn that"
My reply is always "From some of the best artist and finest people from
around the world ... our stained glass group." They seem to be amazed at
the wealth of knowledge that is freely shared.

OOOPs my soap box just slipped. Now I have time to crack, I mean cut
some glass.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows to all (especially to the newcomers and Elizabeth and
Toby)




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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 19:49:24 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Comments
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:59:43 -0500
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suzanne albright wrote:
> 
> Mike wrote:
> > i'm not sure why it was changed to this format in the
> >first place.
> 
> Suzanne guesses:
> Because we were all being spanked for being bad little girls and boys.
> 
> Suzanne Albright
> suzy@comcat.com


the thing is it all started when someone mentioned in passing about
editing. not becuase it was "not edited properly", but becuase of their
higher rates in europe. then the whole thing got real ugly, for no real
reason. then everyone got 3-5 times more may about nothing... the
complete opposite effect that was first wanted.

idiot shirly sutor bounces back every piece of mail i write. which means
i may write less becuase of her. very childish really. 

so the list was cut off, i could understand that, then it came back on
but in this new format. but the new format does'nt make any sense from
the last problem. at this time you have to remember to choose re:all,
which means the bungi's in europe still may have to download more then
they want. 

most of the time when i respond i don't even see who i'm responding to,
i just answer the question... usaully i want to have the group see it as
well (mainly because i don't want to have to repeat myself); but it bugs
me when i forget to do the re:all. because now it's set up like a
newsgroup, and not a listserv, as it once was...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 19:59:22 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Photography
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:10:13 +0000
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> the work. (As an exercise, position yourself from the other side of a
> rectangular building, now, through the camera, see it upwards, you
> will notice that the parallel lines of the building are translated
> into converging lines in the viewfinder; now, lower the camera to have
> the bottom of the building in the middle: the lines should be fairly
> parallel)

Ah, I've always wished for a parallax-adjusting lens. Very 
expensive, though, too much so for my budget. I agree with you 
totally about the slower speed films, though. Much of my work these 
days is shot in churches; tripods are a must, cable releases a 
requirement, too, slow films at high f-stops, 1- and 2-second 
exposures ... it can take a day to shoot the inventory of a single 
church, but it's worth the effort and the slow shots when you see the 
results. Besides, it's often more expensive to travel back to the 
site than to do it right the first time: shoot a dozen 36-exposure 
rolls at slow speeds, bracketing every shot, and you don't have to go 
back. With 3-6 shots of each window, there's always something that's 
useful and useable.

Albert

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 20:11:17 1998
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From: Alcista <mindwarp@sgi.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: cameras
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:46:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.144632.0>
References: <<3.0.5.16.19980226083100.2937a670@oregontrail.net>>
Precedence: bulk

For York Photo labs you can call  (304)424-9675   , they will send you mailers
to send the film to the closest location.   The locations that I see for the
western area are:  San Francisco, CA; Denver, CO; Dallas, TX; Seattle, WA


Douglas R. Terry wrote:

> thanks, but i don't know of eather one of thoes. are they in the east? i'm
> way our west(U.S)
>                 doug terry(Oregon)
>
> At 09:51 PM 2/25/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >York Photo Labs and Revco will develop Seattle Film.
> >
> >Sandi ;-)
> >



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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 20:11:56 1998
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From: Rex Gerlinger <gerling@mindspring.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:32:23 -0500
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Dear Elisabeth (and Toby) and Bungians,

I'm warning you - this is going to be long.  Feel free to hit the delete
button now!

We call ourselves "The Glass Ladies".....we've been lurking for about a
year.  But it is finally time to come out of the shadows and explain what
Bungi (and stained glass in general) means to us.

We started with a class at our local shop in January, 1997.   It was a
birthday present to me (Hazel) from my friend Elizabeth and we talked our
friend Lou into joining us.  For six weeks we battled Atlanta traffic after
work on Tuesdays to get to the glass shop in time for our class.  On
weekends we did our "homework" on a make-shift table in my basement.  

We became addicted. 

The table became 8' x 7'...we added lights...one, then two divided glass
storage cabinets...one, then two grinders.....a saw.......a "workbench" for
the machinery......pvc pipe for lead and zinc(first 3...now 12)....more
lights.....a 4 drawer rolling cabinet for patterns (and band-aids)...boxes
for glass scraps......peg board......a light box.....a dremel tool.....still
more lights.....a HEPA filter.....you get the drift...........

Wednesday nights are "official" glass nights.  Most Saturdays and Sundays
are also glass days. It's been over a year now and we are all as passionate
as ever.  I have no idea how many pieces we've done - but it is ALOT!  We've
done a zillion presents - panels, fan lamps, vases, boxes, candle holders,
stepping stones, bird baths, etc. etc. etc.  We've done lots for ourselves
(my husband swears we will soon have no "regular" glass windows in our
house!).  We've even sold a few pieces and the best compliment of all is
that now our local shop (where we took our class) commissions us to build
pieces for them!  We built double front doors for a customer of the shop.  I
made a firescreen....Elizabeth is making a 6'x3' palladian window for her
parents.....Lou is working on her front door.  The bottom line is that even
though we are definitely "newbies" - we've done alot. Add to the mix - last
June I was "downsized" from my regular job so now I spend many 12 hour days
in the "glass room". (I believe that God created severence pay to allow you
to do what you really want to do!)

Lou and I are 40something....Elizabeth is 30something.....we are all
married....Lou has two kids....Elizabeth has one....I have two stepsons -
one lives with us.  Okay, now you know about us.

What Bungi means to us:

You guys are our friends.  We talk about you all the time.  As we work on
glass we discuss what you're discussing.  We feel like we know Elisabeth and
Dani and Mike Savad and Charles and Mike Peck and VT Phelps and Don and
Howard and Albert and Glenna and Dave and and and.....

Usually one of the first questions is "Did you read Bungi?"  We love Toby
because our Elizabeth has an Old English Sheepdog named Floyd.  

We especially love Elisabeth.  We love how you describe yourself (I am a
stubborn -----).....we love how you share your knowledge and we especially
love your passion.  I save your messages and we all re-read them together
and talk about them.  And this last one says it all.......Bungi really is
all about personalities and emotions and world wide "friendships".  That's
what makes it so special. 

While we don't disagree with Glenna and Dave's decision to shut it down
recently (we refer to it as our "time-out")....we have noticed that it has
lately gotten awfully polite! And kinda boring!  We thank Elisabeth for
reminding us why we love this group so much.

We will hereby try to contribute - are you listening Elizabeth and Lou????!
One thing that we have all learned is what we refer to as "the hand of
God".....sometimes the glass breaks (it needs a lead line)...sometimes you
run out of a particular glass (this other one looks better
anyway).....sometimes the "back" looks better than the front( oh, yeah, I
planned it this way)......

Some days you just can't cut glass so then it's time to design your next
piece.  Some days you can't solder so then it's time to clean the grinder or
do general "maintenance"!  But some days every piece cuts like butter.  and
some days those beads and joints are perfect.  Maybe it's the alignment of
the planets....

We are three totally different people who all share glass.  And while we do
glass we talk about everything.  It is a wonderful experience.

Hazel

P.S. Now that I've droned on forever - here's my question....Why is this
list called Bungi???????  Is it because we are all hanging by tethers??? Is
it because we are all stretched in six directions??????  

----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 20:24:04 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Dear Newbie
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 02:10:13 +0000
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In deed you have Daniel,
And I have already replied to you off-group.
As I have also done to lots of other Newbies who picked up on what I 
had to say.
I am still replying.......
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


QUOTE:
From:          "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
To:            glass@bungi.com
Subject:       Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date:          Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:26:17 -0500


Hello Bunginians,

I am new to the list. I found it by browsing Mike's web site and I am
glad I did. 
< large snip>

Toby/Elizabeth made feel welcomed into a warm, cozy place and I
thanked them for that.

dmg


--
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 20:37:46 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Stove Polish
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:40:02 +0000
Message-ID: <199802270244.CAA17649@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Dani, Hi All,

First we have got lemon as flux, then ice and ice cubes (Thanks for 
the challenge Valerie! Loved it.  Freezer compartment full of Toby's 
fish-fingers, so experiment will have to wait until onset of 
summer...).
Now Dani has really excelled herself and found my "beloved 
stove-black" in an American version.  Beats patina any day!!
Will send you a REAL English version in exchange for your snail-mail 
address. Then experiment with both of them and let us know.
Are you game, gal??
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Well, lo and behold if I didn't
by accident stumble across the
stove black that Elisabeth in UK
talks about.  It's available from
Cumberland General Store in
Crossville, Tennessee 1-800-334-4640.
It's called Rutland Stove Polish and =

sells for $6.25 a tube.  It's made up
of "A water-based emuslfication of =

quality natural waxes combined with
some of the blacker pigments known.
Buffs to high luster..."   You get the
idea.  Hope this helps somebody!

Best regards,

DAni Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 21:02:50 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison
From: ItsAlison <ItsAlison@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Comments
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:04:22 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.3422.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-26 14:02:55 EST, morn@nac.net writes:

<< oh yeah, i personally complained about it, when it was first put in. i
 mainly stated that it's now a newsgroup and not a listserv. what would
 happen is that people will automatically hit re:mail, and after it's
 sent you then find out that you sent it to 1 person and not everyone. 
 
 and doing it re:all means that you get 2 or more pieces of mail. quite a
 few times i got mail from one person to another person with the bungi
 sig at the bottom... it would be alot better if it was changed back to
 the way it was... i'm not sure why it was changed to this format in the
 first place.
 
 ---Mike Savad
  >>
I'm with you Mike, and I think this change will discourage people from writing
to Bungi...it took me a lot of cutting and pasteing just to write this
response...and then a few minutes to figure out where to look for Bungi's
address (which I had to cut and paste)  A lot of days most of us will not take
the time for all that, it was much simpler when you could just click the reply
box and type away.   cant we get it changed back again??     ~Alison~
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 21:05:17 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu
From: Whispy Blu <WhispyBlu@aol.com>
To: Classydad@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Cat eyes
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:13:40 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.31340.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-26 22:02:31 EST, Classydad@aol.com writes:

<< Any suggestions on affixing some "eyes" to a small cat suncatcher. >>

I have used extremely small glass globs, even grinding them smaller if needed.
I then foiled them and attached them with solder.  I have also tried some
small black dot rubber things that I found at the hardware store.  They have
adhesive on the back, but you might also want to use some glue.  I think those
little rubber things are actually made to put on coasters or some other item
to keep them from sliding around on tables.  Sorry for the lack of a technical
term for them but I don't know it would be (laughing).  I hope this is
helpful.    

Lu Ann (Whispy Blu@aol.com)
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 21:13:32 1998
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From: Carolyn Duncan <chick@cyberg8t.com>
To: newsgroup <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Las Vegas
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:15:07 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb26.11157.0>
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I haven't seen any chatter about the Glass Expo in Las Vegas in March. 
Is any one else going?  If so it might be fun to meet some of the other
members.  I found a piece of Youghiogheny glass that immediately
reminded me of a night sky.  I would like to make a city skyline with
windows that appear lit.  Does anyone know of a pattern or how I might
go about it?  Any suggestions would be appreciated. Floating with El
Nino in Calif.  Carolyn
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 21:40:23 1998
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X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover
From: "Laurean" <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: patina and putty
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 21:49:02 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.5492.0>
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Does one apply patina before or after puttying?
and what commercial putty is the best?  I realize
most of you make your own putty, but I don't
have the time nor inclination at this point in
my life! :-)
Laurean

Eph 4:32

----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 21:53:19 1998
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X-Path: mindspring.com!gerling
From: Rex Gerlinger <gerling@mindspring.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:09:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980227040914.00682df0@pop.mindspring.com>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Elisabeth (and Toby) and Bungians,

I'm warning you - this is going to be long.  Feel free to hit the delete
button now!

We call ourselves "The Glass Ladies".....we've been lurking for about a
year.  But it is finally time to come out of the shadows and explain what
Bungi (and stained glass in general) means to us.

We started with a class at our local shop in January, 1997.   It was a
birthday present to me (Hazel) from my friend Elizabeth and we talked our
friend Lou into joining us.  For six weeks we battled Atlanta traffic after
work on Tuesdays to get to the glass shop in time for our class.  On
weekends we did our "homework" on a make-shift table in my basement.  

We became addicted. 

The table became 8' x 7'...we added lights...one, then two divided glass
storage cabinets...one, then two grinders.....a saw.......a "workbench" for
the machinery......pvc pipe for lead and zinc(first 3...now 12)....more
lights.....a 4 drawer rolling cabinet for patterns (and band-aids)...boxes
for glass scraps......peg board......a light box.....a dremel tool.....still
more lights.....a HEPA filter.....you get the drift...........

Wednesday nights are "official" glass nights.  Most Saturdays and Sundays
are also glass days. It's been over a year now and we are all as passionate
as ever.  I have no idea how many pieces we've done - but it is ALOT!  We've
done a zillion presents - panels, fan lamps, vases, boxes, candle holders,
stepping stones, bird baths, etc. etc. etc.  We've done lots for ourselves
(my husband swears we will soon have no "regular" glass windows in our
house!).  We've even sold a few pieces and the best compliment of all is
that now our local shop (where we took our class) commissions us to build
pieces for them!  We built double front doors for a customer of the shop.  I
made a firescreen....Elizabeth is making a 6'x3' palladian window for her
parents.....Lou is working on her front door.  The bottom line is that even
though we are definitely "newbies" - we've done alot. Add to the mix - last
June I was "downsized" from my regular job so now I spend many 12 hour days
in the "glass room". (I believe that God created severence pay to allow you
to do what you really want to do!)

Lou and I are 40something....Elizabeth is 30something.....we are all
married....Lou has two kids....Elizabeth has one....I have two stepsons -
one lives with us.  Okay, now you know about us.

What Bungi means to us:

You guys are our friends.  We talk about you all the time.  As we work on
glass we discuss what you're discussing.  We feel like we know Elisabeth and
Dani and Mike Savad and Charles and Mike Peck and VT Phelps and Don and
Howard and Albert and Glenna and Dave and and and.....

Usually one of the first questions is "Did you read Bungi?"  We love Toby
because our Elizabeth has an Old English Sheepdog named Floyd.  

We especially love Elisabeth.  We love how you describe yourself (I am a
stubborn -----).....we love how you share your knowledge and we especially
love your passion.  I save your messages and we all re-read them together
and talk about them.  And this last one says it all.......Bungi really is
all about personalities and emotions and world wide "friendships".  That's
what makes it so special. 

While we don't disagree with Glenna and Dave's decision to shut it down
recently (we refer to it as our "time-out")....we have noticed that it has
lately gotten awfully polite! And kinda boring!  We thank Elisabeth for
reminding us why we love this group so much.

We will hereby try to contribute - are you listening Elizabeth and Lou????!
One thing that we have all learned is what we refer to as "the hand of
God".....sometimes the glass breaks (it needs a lead line)...sometimes you
run out of a particular glass (this other one looks better
anyway).....sometimes the "back" looks better than the front( oh, yeah, I
planned it this way)......

Some days you just can't cut glass so then it's time to design your next
piece.  Some days you can't solder so then it's time to clean the grinder or
do general "maintenance"!  But some days every piece cuts like butter.  and
some days those beads and joints are perfect.  Maybe it's the alignment of
the planets....

We are three totally different people who all share glass.  And while we do
glass we talk about everything.  It is a wonderful experience.

Hazel

P.S. Now that I've droned on forever - here's my question....Why is this
list called Bungi???????  Is it because we are all hanging by tethers??? Is
it because we are all stretched in six directions??????  

----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 22:07:32 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: mindspring.com!gerling
From: Rex Gerlinger <gerling@mindspring.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:08:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980227040804.006878fc@pop.mindspring.com>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Elisabeth (and Toby) and Bungians,

I'm warning you - this is going to be long.  Feel free to hit the delete
button now!

We call ourselves "The Glass Ladies".....we've been lurking for about a
year.  But it is finally time to come out of the shadows and explain what
Bungi (and stained glass in general) means to us.

We started with a class at our local shop in January, 1997.   It was a
birthday present to me (Hazel) from my friend Elizabeth and we talked our
friend Lou into joining us.  For six weeks we battled Atlanta traffic after
work on Tuesdays to get to the glass shop in time for our class.  On
weekends we did our "homework" on a make-shift table in my basement.  

We became addicted. 

The table became 8' x 7'...we added lights...one, then two divided glass
storage cabinets...one, then two grinders.....a saw.......a "workbench" for
the machinery......pvc pipe for lead and zinc(first 3...now 12)....more
lights.....a 4 drawer rolling cabinet for patterns (and band-aids)...boxes
for glass scraps......peg board......a light box.....a dremel tool.....still
more lights.....a HEPA filter.....you get the drift...........

Wednesday nights are "official" glass nights.  Most Saturdays and Sundays
are also glass days. It's been over a year now and we are all as passionate
as ever.  I have no idea how many pieces we've done - but it is ALOT!  We've
done a zillion presents - panels, fan lamps, vases, boxes, candle holders,
stepping stones, bird baths, etc. etc. etc.  We've done lots for ourselves
(my husband swears we will soon have no "regular" glass windows in our
house!).  We've even sold a few pieces and the best compliment of all is
that now our local shop (where we took our class) commissions us to build
pieces for them!  We built double front doors for a customer of the shop.  I
made a firescreen....Elizabeth is making a 6'x3' palladian window for her
parents.....Lou is working on her front door.  The bottom line is that even
though we are definitely "newbies" - we've done alot. Add to the mix - last
June I was "downsized" from my regular job so now I spend many 12 hour days
in the "glass room". (I believe that God created severence pay to allow you
to do what you really want to do!)

Lou and I are 40something....Elizabeth is 30something.....we are all
married....Lou has two kids....Elizabeth has one....I have two stepsons -
one lives with us.  Okay, now you know about us.

What Bungi means to us:

You guys are our friends.  We talk about you all the time.  As we work on
glass we discuss what you're discussing.  We feel like we know Elisabeth and
Dani and Mike Savad and Charles and Mike Peck and VT Phelps and Don and
Howard and Albert and Glenna and Dave and and and.....

Usually one of the first questions is "Did you read Bungi?"  We love Toby
because our Elizabeth has an Old English Sheepdog named Floyd.  

We especially love Elisabeth.  We love how you describe yourself (I am a
stubborn -----).....we love how you share your knowledge and we especially
love your passion.  I save your messages and we all re-read them together
and talk about them.  And this last one says it all.......Bungi really is
all about personalities and emotions and world wide "friendships".  That's
what makes it so special. 

While we don't disagree with Glenna and Dave's decision to shut it down
recently (we refer to it as our "time-out")....we have noticed that it has
lately gotten awfully polite! And kinda boring!  We thank Elisabeth for
reminding us why we love this group so much.

We will hereby try to contribute - are you listening Elizabeth and Lou????!
One thing that we have all learned is what we refer to as "the hand of
God".....sometimes the glass breaks (it needs a lead line)...sometimes you
run out of a particular glass (this other one looks better
anyway).....sometimes the "back" looks better than the front( oh, yeah, I
planned it this way)......

Some days you just can't cut glass so then it's time to design your next
piece.  Some days you can't solder so then it's time to clean the grinder or
do general "maintenance"!  But some days every piece cuts like butter.  and
some days those beads and joints are perfect.  Maybe it's the alignment of
the planets....

We are three totally different people who all share glass.  And while we do
glass we talk about everything.  It is a wonderful experience.

Hazel

P.S. Now that I've droned on forever - here's my question....Why is this
list called Bungi???????  Is it because we are all hanging by tethers??? Is
it because we are all stretched in six directions??????  

----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 22:08:26 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3
From: Garry  & Linda   McKenna <mnvve3@kwic.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: welcome
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:40:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980227044018.006722dc@mail.kwic.com>
Precedence: bulk

I would like to add my welcome to Daniel from a fellow Canadian from
Southwestern Ontario.  Also welcome to the land of stained glass,
unfortunately it is habit forming, leading one to want to spend all ones
time cutting glass.  In case you havn't discovered already, you live a
couple of miles away from a great place to visit.  St. Jacob's is just up
the road from you and there is a large glass studio there complete with
classes, lots of neat stuff to see including glass blowing.   Quite
expensive though, so it would be wise to shop for supplies elsewhere. Now I
will retreat to my lurk mode once again, but I know we'll be hearing from
you again.
Linda
GARRY & LINDA McKENNA
  TILLSONBURG ONT CANADA
   519 842-9909
  
 LINDA'S HOBBY: STAINED GLASS
 GARRY'S HOBBY:  AMATURE RADIO CALL VE3MNV

----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 22:35:56 1998
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From: Garry  & Linda   McKenna <mnvve3@kwic.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Cat eyes
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:40:00 -0500
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- I use those little "wiggle" eyes that are available in many sizes from
craft stores - they work very well for this purpose.
Linda 

At 07:48 PM 26/2/98 EST, you wrote:
>Any suggestions on affixing some "eyes" to a small cat suncatcher.  I tried
>cutting out some small eyes out of copper foil.  After burnishing, I touched
>them lightly with a droplet of solder.  Each lifted up slightly, I assume due
>to the heat.  What are other options?  Perhaps a solder-colored stained glass
>paint?  Thanks.
>----
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>
>
GARRY & LINDA McKENNA
  TILLSONBURG ONT CANADA
   519 842-9909
  
 LINDA'S HOBBY: STAINED GLASS
 GARRY'S HOBBY:  AMATURE RADIO CALL VE3MNV

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 22:43:05 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Classydad" <Classydad@aol.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Cat eyes
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 23:56:43 -0500
Message-ID: <199802270454.XAA29833@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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>Any suggestions on affixing some "eyes" to a small cat suncatcher.  I tried
>cutting out some small eyes out of copper foil.  After burnishing, I touched
>them lightly with a droplet of solder.  Each lifted up slightly, I assume due
>to the heat.  What are other options?  Perhaps a solder-colored stained glass
>paint?  Thanks.

Classydad, you could try the Deka-brand black paint, probably found in an 
art-supply store. If you can't find it locally, E-mail me and I will look 
up their brochure and give you their address. Just apply a drop and let 
it dry. To be extra-special, you can let it dry for 24 hrs., then put it 
in a cold oven, bring temp up to 275, turn off oven and let it stay there 
until oven is cold. That should make it more-or-less permanent. Works for 
me.

Or, you could leave a small hole for the eye and fill it with solder.

Or, if the eyes are large enough, you could use a small yellow nugget and 
paint the pupil on with said Deka.

I've found that the small piece of foil is "iffy." Sometimes it works but 
it's subject to lifting off.

Suzanne

>----
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>


Suzanne Albright
suzy@comcat.com


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From owner-glass Thu Feb 26 22:53:46 1998
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Rex Gerlinger" <gerling@mindspring.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 00:19:22 -0500
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Dear Glass Ladies,

Welcome to the Bungi Group. Your letter was a joy to read and I can just 
picture you all working and chatting about glass and life.

Addiction, yes! Me too! I love every aspect of it, from planning 
something, choosing the glass, all the craft part and finally...seeing 
it. And either loving or hating it. The agony or the ecstasy!

I also have a houseful of glass, no windows left for new things. So I 
have to "retire" some things for a while to make room for the new. 

Yes, it has gotten polite and boring the last few weeks. I think we're 
all afraid of offending someone so we're being way too prim & proper. 
Looks like we're gonna change that. Thanks to Elisabeth!

I love your comments about "the hand of God". I have often thought the 
same thing. If a piece breaks, there is another part of the glass that 
would look better. I have the stained glass muses on call at all times 
here in my little studio in Pennsylvania. And the days everything works 
like a charm - the solder flows just right - the glass cuts like "butter" 
- they are indeed a blessing. I give individual classes and most of my 
students become friends and fellow-addicts and we are like you three - we 
work and chat and love life.

I myself have often wondered why the group is called Bungi. Glenna?

Suzanne Albright


Suzanne Albright
suzy@comcat.com


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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 07:54:33 1998
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: Carolyn Duncan <chick@cyberg8t.com>, newsgroup <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Las Vegas
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:27:26 PST
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[In the message entitled "Las Vegas" on Feb 26, 19:15, Carolyn Duncan writes:]
> I haven't seen any chatter about the Glass Expo in Las Vegas in March. 
> Is any one else going?  If so it might be fun to meet some of the other

I am going to be there!  I wouldn't miss it!!  Last year I planned to
go to the one they were going to hold in San Fran. (which was after
the Vegas show) and then they cancelled it.  I have been waiting a whole
year to take this one.  Any ideas on how to spot a fellow bungi member?


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 08:19:42 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Photography
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:20:54 +0000
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> I am rather new to the manual photography realm. Please tell me what
> "bracketing" means.

Whatever your light meter says, Michael, you shoot at that setting, 
as well as one f-stop higher and one f-stop lower. That means, 
assuming that your light meter is "on the money" and totally 
accurate, that you'll end up with one image that's perfect, according 
to your light meter, plus one that's lighter and one that's darker.

I've found that the darker slide is often the one that's better, 
since its colors are richer, but that's really too broad a statement, 
given the fact that glass objects and panels vary widely in the 
amount of light they're transmitting.

But that's the idea: to expose as suggested by the light meter, then 
to "put brackets around that setting," exposing once at a setting 
that will admit more light and once at a setting that will admit 
less.

Albert

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 08:29:15 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Cat eyes
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:20:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.4203.0>
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Message text written by Classydad
>Any suggestions on affixing some "eyes" to
a small cat suncatcher.  I tried cutting out some
small eyes out of copper foil.  After burnishing, I touched
them lightly with a droplet of solder.  Each lifted up
slightly, I assume due to the heat.  What are other
options?  Perhaps a solder-colored stained glass
paint?<

Liquid lead (a thick glass paint from Deka) works
well and is available in various colors such as black,
copper, silver, bronze.  It comes in a little squeeze
bottle with an applicator tip and is oh, so easy to use.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 08:43:46 1998
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X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu
To:           glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:      Re: Comments
Date:         Fri, 27 Feb 98 08:24:35 EST
Message-ID:   <980227.082741.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<3.0.2.32.19980226090322.006a279c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Precedence: bulk

 I suspect that answers going to an individual rather than the list is
because of the change that makes "reply" reply to the individual, not the
list.  It's a bit unusual, in my experience, for a list, and I know I
still am not used to it!
Two more weeks and the accelerated math course I'm teaching will be over
and I'll have time to do some of the glass pieces I see in my head!

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 08:51:01 1998
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From: DMR74 <DMR74@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: quick set cement
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:58:40 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-26 13:51:39 EST, vlclover@rconnect.com writes:

> What I do is hit the reply all button,
LOL someone has made me look again I too have a reply to all button now I
won't have to work so hard at this mail stuff and send to the wrong people.
 Just poured my first test stepping stone, what a way to use all those tiny
pieces of stained glass we hate to throw away.  I bought 'concrete patch' made
by Thompsons, Ok it was on sale for $3 so I had to try it but was afraid to
try on a bigger first stone, so I made 2 tiny ones about 4" with one bucket of
this stuff, even used glass "globs" nuggets.  I'll let you know tommorrow how
it turned out, but I know I will use LOTS of tiny pieces now.  I have a 18"
hex set ready to pour next, it is of a sun face that I made 6 triangular
pieces for rays and then used the same glass but all the scraps and made 6
more triangular in a mosaic fashion.  I did every other one that way, it looks
great lets see how it comes out as a stone.
deb
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 08:53:25 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Mosfunland <Mosfunland@aol.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: ouch!
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:19:58 -0500
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Message text written by Mosfunland
>and I have a question, because I can't remember sh..ANYTHING!  After I
solder
the leads, when I putty, do I do one side, white it  and let it set for a=

day
before doing the second side?  should I start with the "good" side?  Hone=
st
to
heaven the things I can't remember.  Any suggestions Christie?<

You made me laugh this morning!  Since I just got through with a rather
large lead window myself, I can totally sympathize with your poor aching
fingers.  But I have good calluses on my fingers, so I probably don't hur=
t
as much as you (ah, feel the pain!).

Anyway...After you solder the joints, putty side one and white it and let=

it rest for a day.  Then turn and do unto side two as you would have done=

to you.  Should you start with the "good side"?  Doesn't matter.  Which
ever side is facing up is the one you start with.  One word of advice - i=
f
you are using textured glass (including glue chip), cover the textured si=
de
with contact paper or even Scotch tape to keep the putty out of the
texture.  Clean up with a tooth pick on stray putty works well for me.

Enjoy!  ...Christie
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 09:24:28 1998
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X-Path: ictc.com!bankers
From: "The Bankers House" <bankers@ictc.com>
To: "suzanne albright" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>, "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Comments
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:26:06 -0000
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Suzanne-

    Funniest thing I've heard since Shirley blamed "El Nino" for the
duplicate and triplicate postings!

Thanks, Dale


-----Original Message-----
From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: M. Savad <morn@nac.net>; glass bungi line <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 2:06 AM
Subject: Re: Comments


>Mike wrote:
>> i'm not sure why it was changed to this format in the
>>first place.
>
>Suzanne guesses:
>Because we were all being spanked for being bad little girls and boys.
>
>
>
>Suzanne Albright
>suzy@comcat.com
>
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 09:30:54 1998
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X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Comments
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:31:25 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.43125.0>
References: <<1998Feb26.145943.0>>
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service  & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:

> idiot shirly sutor bounces back every piece of mail i write. which means
> i may write less becuase of her. very childish really.


Mike, in the future, when you choose to call me an idiot,
please exercise the maturity of spelling my name correctly.

S H I R L E Y   S U T E R
(who is failing miserably at taking her grandmother's advice
to never enter a battle of wits against an unarmed person.)
Grapeland, Tx.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 09:34:22 1998
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X-Path: glasstreasures.com!sgt
From: Stephanie Hansen <sgt@glasstreasures.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Cat eyes
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:05:12 -0600
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980227100512.0081b100@glasstreasures.com>
References: <<199802270454.XAA29833@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
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Suzanne had several good suggestions on eyes.  I've used paint before,
also, but what I usually use for eyes on my hummingbirds, goldfish, etc.
are little solder blobs that I glue on.  I often have little drops of
solder that dry up with a flat bottom and rounded top that work out
perfectly for eyes.

Steph ~


-----------------------------------
Stephanie Hansen - Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX
Affordable stained glass pieces for gifts or personal use
Enter the sweepstakes to win a stained glass suncatcher!
<mailto:sgt@glasstreasures.com>   <http://glasstreasures.com/>
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 09:55:03 1998
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From: Beveler 4 <Beveler4@aol.com>
To: chick@cyberg8t.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Las Vegas
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:11:01 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.14111.0>
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Hi Carolyn,Yes my Wife and I are going to go to Vegas and we are going to meet
up with a few glass types from another glass chat that I keep up with. It
should be fun because I haven't met but one of them and we chat about glass
and other things every Wed and Sat nite.We are all staying at the Hotel Circus
Circus. there will some from Calif., Penn. Mich. and some from Mass.and my
wife and myself are from Indiana. We would love to meet you there.If you would
like to meet up some where E-mail me back off bungi and we can make
arrangements. I'm looking forward to meeting many of the people that I chat
with but never have been able to put a face to.Beveler4@aol.com(Stan and
Christine)
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 10:08:53 1998
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From: IMN2GLASS2 <IMN2GLASS2@aol.com>
To: chick@cyberg8t.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Las Vegas
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:43:46 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.124346.0>
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Hey Carolyn ,I will be going to vegas to the expo..maybe we should wear pins
with our screen names on it? It would be fun to meet fellow bungians. happy
traveling ,Judy
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 10:13:14 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: smile
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:24:31 -0500
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A LITTLE SMILE
    
       ()     ()
       *                 *
       \_______/
   
                  This little smile somehow found its way,            
                  On to your screen to brighten your day.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 10:30:23 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Glass Ladies
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:02:46 +0000
Message-ID: <199802271707.RAA14322@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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Dear Hazel, Dear "Glass Ladies", and Bunginians,

Your posting on Bungi (and my subsequent SIX further copies ;-> )
was absolutely delightful and I enjoyed every word of it
Thank you for coming out of the "wood-work".
You set the scene so wonderfully, described the gusto and enthusiasm 
with wonderful colours and FUN!
Suzanne (Albright) has more or less described my own reactions, and I 
know that you gave many many others a great big smile.
To be honest with you, after my own little "performance" I fully 
expected hounds braying and people shouting  "Off With Her Head"!!
I wasn't quite prepared for the avalanche  of positive and lovely 
words that have flooded my e-mail box in these last 2-3 days...
...And thank goodness noone could see my blushes....
The little window at the bottom of my screen tells me that I still 
have 117 to answer.....
Phew, no rest for the wicked!!!

Oh Yes!! I know ALL about "God's Hand" - he just engineered it the 
way I intended it to be in the first place - ANYWAY!! ;-)
That certainly put a big grin on my face!
I am glad I managed to tease you out of shadow-land.  I must now and 
then be able to do SOMETHING right...

"Passion" ??? ME?? Nah! It was something Len tried to tell me about 2 
years ago (and just did again!!). I am a cold-blooded, grumpy, 
stubborn Ole' Swede, argumentative as they come, approaching the age 
when the geographical term "South" is beginning to take on a whole 
new meaning....
Hang in there and let us hear much, much more from you and your 
projects.!!
 Toby sends Love to Floyd (A Soul-Mate??! AT LAST!!!)
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Dear Elisabeth (and Toby) and Bungians,

I'm warning you - this is going to be long.  Feel free to hit the delete
button now!

We call ourselves "The Glass Ladies".....we've been lurking for about a
year.  But it is finally time to come out of the shadows and explain what
Bungi (and stained glass in general) means to us.

<snip >
We became addicted. 

< snip>


What Bungi means to us:

You guys are our friends.  We talk about you all the time.  As we work on
glass we discuss what you're discussing.  We feel like we know Elisabeth and
Dani and Mike Savad and Charles and Mike Peck and VT Phelps and Don and
Howard and Albert and Glenna and Dave and and and.....

Usually one of the first questions is "Did you read Bungi?"  We love Toby
because our Elizabeth has an Old English Sheepdog named Floyd.  

We especially love Elisabeth.  We love how you describe yourself (I am a
stubborn -----).....we love how you share your knowledge and we especially
love your passion.  I save your messages and we all re-read them together
and talk about them.  And this last one says it all.......Bungi really is
all about personalities and emotions and world wide "friendships".  That's
what makes it so special. 

While we don't disagree with Glenna and Dave's decision to shut it down
recently (we refer to it as our "time-out")....we have noticed that it has
lately gotten awfully polite! And kinda boring!  We thank Elisabeth for
reminding us why we love this group so much.

We will hereby try to contribute - are you listening Elizabeth and Lou????!
One thing that we have all learned is what we refer to as "the hand of
God".....sometimes the glass breaks (it needs a lead line)...sometimes you
run out of a particular glass (this other one looks better
anyway).....sometimes the "back" looks better than the front( oh, yeah, I
planned it this way)......

Some days you just can't cut glass so then it's time to design your next
piece.  Some days you can't solder so then it's time to clean the grinder or
do general "maintenance"!  But some days every piece cuts like butter.  and
some days those beads and joints are perfect.  Maybe it's the alignment of
the planets....

We are three totally different people who all share glass.  And while we do
glass we talk about everything.  It is a wonderful experience.

Hazel

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 10:34:44 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: list working
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:32:19 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.13219.0>
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I for one can see the difference in the posting to the list/individual.
On the assumption that most of the participants are literate, posting
general information is easy enough to do by putting "bungi" (or whatever
alias you choose to use) in the "to", your gem of wisdom goes to us all.
By just "replying" your acknowledgement of "what is for dinner" goes to the
interested party (generally not myself).
I have taken off most of my "pearls on lampmaking" to the private requester
of assistance, so as not to see it quoted, mis quoted, partially quoted and
picked apart and repeated with an" I agree" buried in 100 or more lines of
re-hashed posts. I may be missing something, but because of my limited and
narrow focus (glass that is) I still sleep fairly well at night (personal
observation).

I can live with current method of communication, and do know how to post to
all if I so desire to.

Enough vituperation for this AM (PST)....back to work.
As ever, enjoy, H

----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 11:12:30 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: ouch!
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:06:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.8653.0>
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Sigh.... I still remember the good
old days when we were allowed to =

use portland cement in our homemade
mix and could cement BOTH sides of
the windows right away AND install the
window, too.  And the cames were so
much blacker.  Those were the days.


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 11:24:04 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:07:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.870.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hazel, you stinkers, how come
you've been holding out on us all
this time?!!  Welcome to bungi which
only offers ALL it has to offer when =

the conversation is two-sided.  Now =

you're really in for some treats!  Thanks
for sharing.  (P.S. I think it's called
bungi because someone has an =

unusual hobby.)

Best regards,

DAni Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 11:44:52 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Stove Polish
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:07:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.878.0>
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Hi Elisabeth-

DO send me your version and I'll
try ours to see how they compare!
Snail-mail is below and don't forget
to send me your address so I can =

mail the greeting card I've been =

saving for you for months!  (P.S.
will respond to your private post when
things settle down a little here- gads!)

Best regards,

Dani
Greer Gallery & Studios
603 W. Colorado Ave.
Colorado Springs, CO  80905
USA
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 12:02:57 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: patina and putty
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:06:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.8645.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Laureen-

You can buy Inland cement from
your supplier, or a thicker thumb
putty by AmChem which is less
messy, but takes longer... fine for
smaller projects.  You don't use =

patina when you cement, the cement
does the job for you.  Polish up =

that lead good with a nice wad of
horsehair!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 12:06:23 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists
Subject: IGGA News Memo
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:45:17 +0000
Message-ID: <m0y8Ufn-0000TQC@daver.bungi.com>
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There are over 200 works in glass now represented in the online 
Architectural Art Glass Light Show ... we just added over 25 more  of 
them this morning.

Go to http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ and click on "Artists" in the 
upper lefthand corner. You'll see "Light Show" pop up ... click on that 
and follow the directions. ("Click here to start" ... simple!)

Soon, very soon ... like within days now ... you'll also be able to 
view the work as it separates out into categories. Interested only in 
doors and entries? You'll be able to do that. Only fused and slumped 
work? You'll be able to do that, too.  Enjoy!

----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 12:35:54 1998
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From: Margaret41 <Margaret41@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: To foil or not to foil...
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:51:30 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.185130.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-26 09:06:11 EST, you write:

<< types of came, rounds and flats for example.  Consider a 3/8" or even
 1/2" flat lead came to get a strong visual near the border, or to
 accentuate some bevels ...... and keep the busy work in foil.  It'll
 turn out just fine.
 
 Mike Peck
 Sunnit Stained Glass
 ---- >>


Thank you Mike for your comments and advice. I am currently working on a panel
that will contain both copper foil (inset) and came. I hadn't considered the
idea of using multiple size cames, etc. I will be foiling and soldering copper
pieces (purchased pattern) and hope to finalize a design for the came parts of
panel this wkend - I'd really like the idea to incoporate different size
cames. (Can you tell I'm a newbie at this??)

----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 12:53:14 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: mike peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Etching tempered glass
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:03:50 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.7350.0>
Organization: Summit Stained Glass  (see us at:  http://www.summitstudio.com)
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

A local contractor is building a restaurant and has ordered some nice
curved glass panels, about 2ft x 6 ft, all clear float glass that has
been bent to a radius of (I'm guessing) 18-20 inches.  He says the glass
was tempered, but the company that made the panels did not put their
logo on them.  The building inspector says they must be tempered and
have the logo before he can install.  There are 52 of these panels and
the contractor is asking us to etch logos on the panels with stencils
provided by him.

Just a few questions come to mind.  Primarily, how do I tell that these
curved panels are really tempered?  I have been fooled by tempered glass
in the past that didn't have logos.  The first indication is when you
take a cutter to it and it seems a lot harder to score, then it bursts
into a million pieces on the table.  I don't want to try that test on
these panels.  Can anyone give me another simple test to confirm that
glass has been tempered?  Would a refractometer tell me anything?  (Not
that I would suspect any contractors of trying to save some money by
buying non-tempered glass and getting a local to forge a certification
label, or anything....)

Second question, am I assuming any legal liability by placing a
certification label on a product that was made by someone else, and
should have been certified by them in the first place?  

Third question, I tried one time to sandblast some tempered glass and it
exploded in my hand.  So, I am assuming that etching tempered glass is
done with etching cream?  How do you get the fine detail in one of those
small logos without going to a "photobrasive" type of mask?  

Although I don't mind learning something new, I hate to go through the
learning curve on a commission project.  Thus, I probably will not take
this job, but thought it posed some interesting questions.  Would
appreciate hearing from anyone that cares to comment (by re:all,
please!).

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 13:03:51 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
Subject: Re: Comments
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:09:58 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.19958.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.43125.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In defence of Mike (not frequent for me) the context made it clear to me
that he was quoting someone else not actually calling you anything.
Maybe it was a mistake to use a real example.  What's a typing error to
three anyway?

Streve  (see -  I can't even spell my own name!)

:_)

In message <1998Feb27.43125.0@?>, Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
writes
>M. Savad wrote:
>
>> idiot shirly sutor bounces back every piece of mail i write. which means
>> i may write less becuase of her. very childish really.
>
>
>Mike, in the future, when you choose to call me an idiot,
>please exercise the maturity of spelling my name correctly.
>
>S H I R L E Y   S U T E R
>(who is failing miserably at taking her grandmother's advice
>to never enter a battle of wits against an unarmed person.)
>Grapeland, Tx.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 13:20:02 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: The Bankers House <bankers@ictc.com>, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: white lines
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:57:25 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.185725.0>
References: <<005201bd435a$32bce600$30b21fce@bankers>>
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In message <005201bd435a$32bce600$30b21fce@bankers>, The Bankers House
<bankers@ictc.com> writes
>Steve,
>    In the post below you mention putting patina on the lead and the solder
>joints.  I have been discouraged from doing this.... so have never tried it.
Experiment is to be encouraged.  You find out so many things (most don't
work, but those that do make the effort worthwhile).  And you learn
about the nature of the materials you are working with better from what
doesn't work than what does.  Unless it is a commission, of course. 
>Does it work?  
Yes, but the solder joint must be clean.  The black patina helps to
darken the lead.  I suppose the lead is affected by the acid just as the
solder is.  (solder contains a high proportion of lead, of course)

>Can you use the same patina?  
Yep. I learned this by just spreading the patina over the lead to see
what happened.  It is not as good as the effect you get from cementing
and brushing the leads, because the pigment from the cement buffs up
into a dull black shine.

>Or is it like with zinc where
>you need to use a separate patina for the solder, and another for the zinc?
I've never used zinc.  And I don't know why all the USAns do.  It seems
to me to be much harder to work.  And if it is only on the
outside/perimeter of the panel, I don't see that it adds much strength.
Ah well........
>    Butyl putty?  Sounds messy.... how do you clean it up?  
Butyl putty as it comes over here (UK) is a red-brown substance that is
slightly hygroscopic, so needs to be stored in dry conditions.  It is a
polymer based substance with some slow drying medium in it.  I put as
little as possible on the panel applying it to each came with a putty or
oyster knife.  Clean up is a combination of whiting/chalk/fine casting
plaster, and about a week later methylated spirits (denatured alcohol to
the USAns) on a cloth or cotton wool (don't know what you call that -
maybe cotton buds - it is about the size of a cotton boll) rubbed on teh
glass along the cames.

>Hope you can
>answer some of these questions....
>
Don't know if I've answered the questions properly Dale, )(or if I've
been rude as accused in the past) but feel free to come back at me on
any of these things.

>>>
..........
>>Dani,
>>When I have been asked to adapt existing panels to be placed inside
>>double glazed uints by a Double glazing firm for which i do some work,
>>they require that I use butyl putty when any replacement leading is
>>needed.  This is the stuff they use to seal the units into the (plastic)
>>frame and into the window opening.
>>
>>Of course, you don't make the came black when cleaning this stuff up
>>(and it is messy),  so some patina on the leads and solder joints is
>>necessary.
>>
>>--
>>Steve Richard
Verrier
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier - Art glass desgners
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 13:38:40 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Cat eyes
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:12:10 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.31210.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.4203.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I usually use liguid lead, black or soft brown, bought in the "paint a
stained glass window(talk about YUK!)" section, of your local craft
store.
But you can also go to the teddy bear/doll section and buy the eyes they
sell to sew on. They are plastic and have a dowel like protrusion coming
out of the back(so you can clamp it to the material). Get out your
dremel and saw that off, sand it down and rough up the plastic back of
the eye and then you can glue it in place.  It can be a rather dramatic
effect, or complete overkill.  You will have to decide.
Good luck and let us know which technique you decide on.
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 13:49:53 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Comments
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:43:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.34343.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.43125.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

To my way of understanding, this is a perfect example of why the posting
format was changed.
May I please beg all of you who wish to take sides in this issue? "Will
you please use the new posting format to do so."
Unlike a very few of you, I go to car races to see the magnficence of
fantastic machines, not the crashes.
And before you go after me, I already feel like the monk (who took a vow
of silence), who is in the process of verbally expressing the vow of
silence.
> 
> M. Savad wrote:
> 
> > idiot shirly sutor bounces back every piece of mail i write. which means
> > i may write less becuase of her. very childish really.
> 
> Mike, in the future, when you choose to call me an idiot,
> please exercise the maturity of spelling my name correctly.
> 
> S H I R L E Y   S U T E R
> (who is failing miserably at taking her grandmother's advice
> to never enter a battle of wits against an unarmed person.)
> Grapeland, Tx.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 13:58:12 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Las Vegas
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:46:37 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.34637.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.14111.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I thought when you and you know who you are, went to GlassVisions last
year, wore bungi cords.  I thought that was a great idea.  Didn't that
work?
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 13:59:30 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: smile
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:48:51 -0800
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:o)
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 14:13:34 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: quick set cement
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:22:16 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.32216.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.145840.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

<snip>
>  Just poured my first test stepping stone, what a way to use all those tiny
<snip>
> pieces of stained glass we hate to throw away.  I bought 'concrete  even used glass "globs" nuggets.

I was going to do this until a customer told me she made a stepping
stone with marbles. Her best friend, who was wearing spiked heels)came
over and slid on the marbles and broke her leg.
So all I want to say here is beware.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 14:26:50 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: quick set cement
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:26:12 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.32612.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
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I still don't get it.  What is Diamondcrete.  I know I will never use
it, cause it costs $35 to do one 16" stone.  I'll wait 12 hours for my
concrete to dry to save $34 thank you. (One 90 lb bag of premix costs
$2.79 and makes three 14" round stones)
Is Diamondcrete like concrete or is it like MosasicStone Cement?
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 14:33:04 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: German Site - Pattern Downloads
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:25:42 -0800
Message-ID: <199802272015.MAA09275@intergate.lasercom.net>
Precedence: bulk

Sorry, I have had computer/E-mail problems for the last 24 hours and have
been unable to reply.  I'm back on now, but lost all my mail from past 48
hours so don't have the address of the lady who asked for this info.  

This is in reply to a message requesting more info on the free downloadable
patterns on the German Stained Glass site.

Home Page for the German site is:  http://bastelzauber.com/index.html
from here select "NEWS"

Half way down the page is a list, each begins with Download......

You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader 3.01 for these downloads (but you need
it for lots of things so if you don't already have it, I would suggest you
get it anyway).

Good Luck

Jean
jean@lasercom.net
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 14:38:40 1998
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X-Path: oregontrail.net!dterry
From: "Douglas R. Terry" <dterry@oregontrail.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Comments(love birds)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:49:37 -0800
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References: <<1998Feb26.145943.0>>
Precedence: bulk

you two love birds make me laugh!!!!!!

			dt  

M. Savad wrote:

> idiot shirly sutor bounces back every piece of mail i write. which means
> i may write less becuase of her. very childish really.

>Mike, in the future, when you choose to call me an idiot,
>please exercise the maturity of spelling my name correctly.
>
>S H I R L E Y   S U T E R
>(who is failing miserably at taking her grandmother's advice
>to never enter a battle of wits against an unarmed person.)
>Grapeland, Tx.

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 15:10:11 1998
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X-Path: nh.ultranet.com!stacyf
From: stacyf@nh.ultranet.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Las Vegas
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:07:35 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980227160735.006a1f94@nh.ultranet.com>
Precedence: bulk

It just so happens that I'll be visiting Las Vegas the same time at the
Expo.  Does anyone know where exactly the tradeshow might be?  I don't want
to be in it, but I would like to see it.  Thanks!

Stacy
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 15:25:05 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com
To: Ensembles@compuserve.com
Subject: Re: ouch!
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:08:43 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.9843.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.41958.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I always cement both sides and pick lightly then in about 48 hrs. or a
little less, finish picking. I know some will disagree with me, but it's
worked for the last 19 years ... I will agree the seedy must be covered
with masking or other tape,but most of the other will come off nicely
with a stiff brushing...(this is not a correction just a
comment!!!!!OK??)
Don <eldondo1@juno.com)

On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:19:58 -0500 "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo"
<Ensembles@compuserve.com> writes:
>Message text written by Mosfunland
>>and I have a question, because I can't remember sh..ANYTHING!  After 
>I
>solder
>the leads, when I putty, do I do one side, white it  and let it set 
>for a=
>
>day
>before doing the second side?  should I start with the "good" side?  
>Hone=
>st
>to
>heaven the things I can't remember.  Any suggestions Christie?<
>
>You made me laugh this morning!  Since I just got through with a 
>rather
>large lead window myself, I can totally sympathize with your poor 
>aching
>fingers.  But I have good calluses on my fingers, so I probably don't 
>hur=
>t
>as much as you (ah, feel the pain!).
>
>Anyway...After you solder the joints, putty side one and white it and 
>let=
>
>it rest for a day.  Then turn and do unto side two as you would have 
>done=
>
>to you.  Should you start with the "good side"?  Doesn't matter.  
>Which
>ever side is facing up is the one you start with.  One word of advice 
>- i=
>f
>you are using textured glass (including glue chip), cover the textured 
>si=
>de
>with contact paper or even Scotch tape to keep the putty out of the
>texture.  Clean up with a tooth pick on stray putty works well for me.
>
>Enjoy!  ...Christie
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 15:40:23 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ncscoutr
From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Las Vegas
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:48:06 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.8486.0>
References: <<m0y8Rh9-0000LEC@daver.bungi.com>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Can you picture a coulpe of hundred people wandering around Las Vegas
wearing bungi-belts, (bungi cords hooked around the waist, ) OR
baby-bungi necklaces/bracelets/headbands??
<GRIN>
V T Phelps
> ----
Glenna Rand wrote:
<<Snippity-snip>>
> Any ideas on how to spot a fellow bungi member?
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 15:48:51 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ? Temp mellts solder
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:22:37 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.52237.0>
References: <<1998Jan14.17194.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I asked this awhile back and received no answers.
Could anyone help? Please?
> 
> I am toying with the idea of building a stained glass display stand to
> support a small free standing design.
> I once put a beveled glass cube in a 200 degree oven to evaporate the
> moisture that was in it.  It melted the solder.  I figured it was
> because the heat was intensified by the sand and glass.
> If light bulbs can bake cakes in kids ovens, then can it get hot enough
> to melt the solder.  And if so what precautions do you take?  ie, vents
> and distance between solder and light bulb?
> Thanks in advance.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 16:12:55 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS2
From: IMN2GLASS2 <IMN2GLASS2@aol.com>
To: gjr@bungi.com, chick@cyberg8t.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Las Vegas
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:54:26 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.215426.0>
Precedence: bulk

Glenna, We need to come up with an idea on how to spot eachother...I was
thinking about Pins that have our screen names on them...Any other ideas??
Judy
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 16:20:55 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ncscoutr
From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Cat eyes
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:32:02 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.8322.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.31340.0>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

A tiny drop of 5 min epoxy on a pair of closely sized solder balls/
blobs is what I would suggest if you want the solder look, or the
ability to patina it.
V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
> ----
In a message dated 98-02-26 22:02:31 EST, Classydad@aol.com writes:
> Any suggestions on affixing some "eyes" to a small cat suncatcher.
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 16:29:28 1998
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X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover
From: "Laurean" <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Re: patina and putty
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 15:25:17 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.232517.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.8645.0>>
Precedence: bulk

  You don't use =3D
>
> patina when you cement, the cement
> does the job for you.  Polish up =3D
>
> that lead good with a nice wad of
> horsehair!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Dani,
	Thanks! Horsehair, that one threw me for
a minute!  But it makes perfect sense!  Now the search
for a horse!

Laurean




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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 16:46:27 1998
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X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover
From: "Laurean" <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: "mike peck" <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Re: Etching tempered glass
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 16:37:35 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.03735.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.7350.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike,
	For liability purpose alone, I wouldn't
touch it with a 10 foot pole!  It's amazing how
someone who is sueing will trace that glass
back to the people who designed it in their
head!, just to get some money.

Laurean


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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 16:51:02 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Etching tempered glass
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:18:18, -0500
Message-ID: <199802280018.TAA05924@mime4.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

Mike,
Sometimes you can see the effects of heat treatment by looking at the 
edge of tempered glass. This is not a sure test and we know that 
these panels were heat treated to bend them and so I would not rely 
on signs of heat treatment to prove tempering.

The logos I have seen seem to be acid etched. You say the contractor 
will provide the stencils. Likely he has received them from the 
tempering facility. If so (and how to tacitly prove) I would do the 
job. Otherwise I would not touch it with a 10 foot stick. Now that I 
think of it, the contractor should be glad you seek to prove that 
tempering has been done and I would ask for proof straight out.

I have had considerable success with sandblasting tempered glass. In 
my experience a full surface blasting has been no problem. Deeper 
sandblasting will sooner or later blow the glass up by allowing the 
inner tension to take over. Lightly sandblasting the tempering labels 
should not entail undue risk of exploding the glass.
Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, (Upon reciept of msg 
that *possom is unfriendly to chickens* destroy your code machines.) 
26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA
Voice (760) 749-3966    FAX (760) 749-6427
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 16:57:13 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu
From: Whispy Blu <WhispyBlu@aol.com>
To: balloch@netbridge.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: quick set cement
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:38:37 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.223837.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-02-27 17:14:19 EST, balloch@netbridge.net writes:

<< I was going to do this until a customer told me she made a stepping
 stone with marbles. >>

The flat side of glass globs are on the walking surface as opposed to marbles
that do not have a flat side.  I have used globs in several stones and have
not found them to be any more slick that any of the other glass on the stone.
However, spike heels are another matter.  They can get snagged on the
curvature of the exposed marble, or any other surface such as carpeting.  I
have seen many women stumble, as I myself have, with any type of high heel.
My philosophy regarding high heels is:  If my particular Higher Power had
wanted my heel off the ground higher than what it takes to walk, then he would
have created by foot in that matter.  Sorry for the off-glass comment, but
just wanted to share a little about myself and my philosphy of life.  I have
several more philosphical types of comments but won't share them now.

:) Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 17:22:59 1998
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: stacyf@nh.ultranet.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Las Vegas
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:32:38 PST
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[In the message entitled "Las Vegas" on Feb 27, 16:07, stacyf@nh.ultranet.com writes:]
> It just so happens that I'll be visiting Las Vegas the same time at the
> Expo.  Does anyone know where exactly the tradeshow might be?  I don't want
> to be in it, but I would like to see it.  Thanks!

It's at the Cashman Field Convention Centre


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 17:28:16 1998
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X-Path: eagle.ca!glass
From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Shame on you Shirley and Mike
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:59:23 -0500
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Shirley Suter and Mike Savad, shame on you.

Is it really so hard to just ignore one another? Do you really have to hurl
insults and names at one another in the Bungi forum? Come on, grow up.

Sarah


>>M. Savad wrote:
>>
>>> idiot shirly sutor bounces back every piece of mail i write. which means
>>> i may write less becuase of her. very childish really.
>>
>>
>>Mike, in the future, when you choose to call me an idiot,
>>please exercise the maturity of spelling my name correctly.
>>
>>S H I R L E Y   S U T E R
>>(who is failing miserably at taking her grandmother's advice
>>to never enter a battle of wits against an unarmed person.)
>>Grapeland, Tx.



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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 17:30:01 1998
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Steve Richard" <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Cutting frozen liquids, warm or cold...
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:28:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.142836.0>
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Check out Spectrum's website- Jim Matthews wrote an article on this exact
topic a couple of years ago in their Score Magazine.
-
Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
Date: February 26, 1998 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: Cutting frozen liquids, warm or cold...


>In message <1998Feb25.17103.0@?>, NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com> writes
>.......<snip>........
>>
>>1) Isn't the molecular structure of glass that of a liquid in a frozen
>>state?
>>
>Well....  No.  To quote from "Conservation of Glass" by Roy Newton and
>Sandra Davison, p.3&4:
>
>>From a scientific  standpoint, glass may be defined as the product of
>the fusion of inorganic materials which has been cooled to a hard
>condition without crystalization taking place.  A clear understanding of
>the structure of glass has only been achieved in the last 45 years.
>Zachariasen was the first to make a significant advance and it is as a
>result of his work, and that of subsequent researchers, that it is now
>realized that the atoms in glass are linked together by strong forces,
>essentially the same as those in crystals.  Thus it is misleading to
>describe glass as a supercooled liquid (as has formerly been the case),
>at least when it is below the transition temperature.
>
>Later, on page 14 the transition temperature is described as the point
>at which the temperature is high enough for the molecular structure to
>become more random than in cooler anealed glass .
>
>(the spelling errors are mine, although I'd prefer to use 's' instead of
>'z' pronounced 'zed'.  I guess it' the result of being in the UK for
>30years.  And inspite of the saying "you can take the person out of
>Kansas, but you cant take the Kansas out of the person")
>
>I'll still be interested to learn of the results of your experiments
>with ice cubes.
>
>--
>Steve Richard
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 17:51:27 1998
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ? Temp mellts solder
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:13:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.151342.0>
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I suspect that as you now know the temps at which solder will melt, you'll
have to find out the temperature of the lightbulb's heat. There is no one
answer- it depends on several variables, i.e. wattage/type of bulb, etc.Try
a thermometer.
Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: mfig@netcom.ca <mfig@netcom.ca>
Date: February 27, 1998 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: ? Temp mellts solder


>I never got this post.  I have suspected for a long time, that I do not
>get all of bungi's posts.
>Thank you.  I never thought the anwser would be so intricate.
>Now the next question is how hot is a light bulb and at what distances?
>>
>> Re: your ? on solder melting temperatures, here's what I wrote awhile
ago-
>>
>> Did you know that...yadda yadda...

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 17:59:14 1998
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From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Shirley Balloch" <balloch@netbridge.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ? Temp mellts solder
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:23:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.142340.0>
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Re: your ? on solder melting temperatures, here's what I wrote awhile ago=
-

Did you know that...
... the atomic weight of lead is 82, its symbol is Pb, its density at 300=
k
is 11.4. Tin=92s symbol is Sn, and its electron configuration is ... oh, =
never
mind, that=92s way too much information.
Solder is an alloy of tin and lead, and the proportion of the two affects
the melting point, but in a strange way. The most suitable for almost all
stained glass work, and most definitely copper foil work is 60/40 (60% ti=
n,
40% lead... Helpful Jim)(a titanic intellect in a world full of
icebergs...Ed). Looking at the two metals by themselves we see that tin
melts at 450F and lead at 621F. But something really weird happens when y=
ou
combine the two- the melting point drops down to as low as 361F depending=
 on
the mix of the two.
Check this out:
%TIN             %LEAD             MELTING POINT
    0                             100                                 621=
F
    30                             70                                 496=
F
    50                             50                                 421=
F
    60                             40                                 375=
F
    63                             37                                 361=
F
If we continue to raise the amount of tin to lead past 63% the melting po=
int
begins to rise again to where it is 450F at 100% tin, therefore 63/37 sol=
der
has the absolute lowest melting point. Pretty weird, eh? (what, you forgo=
t
about Marv Albert?...Mikey) And you thought that ratio was a gimmick? Wit=
h
respect to cost, the last time Stan (Mike=92s metals commodities broker)
checked, tin was about ten times more expensive than lead, telling you wh=
y
solder prices vary according to the amount of tin they have.

-
Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: February 27, 1998 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: ? Temp mellts solder


>I asked this awhile back and received no answers.
>Could anyone help? Please?
>> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 18:33:05 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: ? Temp mellts solder
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:54:23 -0500
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Shirley-

60/40 solder melts at just over
600 degrees Fahrenheit.  Beats
me why it melted in a 200 degree
oven.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 18:36:04 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Etching tempered glass
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:54:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.145431.0>
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Hi Mike-

"Don't do it!", she yelled.  You could
get in big trouble.  However, if you
like that sort of lifestyle, I would have
a rubber stamp made of the logo and
use etching cream. ;-)

Michael has blasted tempered glass...
very carefully and with the customer's
full understanding that the risk and cost
was his.  It's better to blast first then have
it tempered though that generally works
best if you do a straight blast.  If you're =

doing detail and subtle shading, you'll
lose some of that during the tempering
process.  And, if you carve too deep, again
the risk of breakage during tempering.

Michael can tell if the glass has been
tempered by the way the edge looks -
it'll be easier to explain with a voice so
call us over the weekend if you really
want to know.  Then YOU can explain it
to the rest of the bungi crowd!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
(719) 444-0409 =

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 18:36:57 1998
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From: pkelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
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Subject: Re: Comments
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 1980 12:05:47 -0600
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Shirley, Mike, and to all

To be wronged is nothing unless you continue to remember it.
                                                    - Confucious (551 -
479 B.C.)

Patrick
Rainbows and Roses
(and slings and arrows)


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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 18:54:27 1998
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X-Path: t-online.de!Tiffany-Glas
From: Tiffany-Glas@t-online.de (Herbert Luidolt)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: German Site - Pattern Downloads
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:06:09 +0100
Message-ID: <m0y8bfF-0003EZC@fwd14.btx.dtag.de>
References: <<199802272015.MAA09275@intergate.lasercom.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Jean schrieb:
> Sorry, I have had computer/E-mail problems for the last 24 hours and have
> been unable to reply.  I'm back on now, but lost all my mail from past 48
> hours so don't have the address of the lady who asked for this info.  
>
> This is in reply to a message requesting more info on the free downloadable
> patterns on the German Stained Glass site.
>
> Home Page for the German site is:  http://bastelzauber.com/index.html
> from here select "NEWS"
>
> Half way down the page is a list, each begins with Download......
>
> You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader 3.01 for these downloads (but you need
> it for lots of things so if you don't already have it, I would suggest you
> get it anyway).
>
> Good Luck
>
> Jean
> jean@lasercom.net
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Hi to all, Jean
you need the Adobe Acrobat Reader only for look and print,
not for the Download ;-)
I work and think in one or 2 weeks i have some Englisch Text
on our Page. The new Pattern for March are ready on Sunday.
There are a Abstrakt works (i think).
Our Designer (Bianka) have a new work. But only
the Pattern. There are a picture with Faerie and 
landscape. Want anybody the pattern?
Please wite and i will take the pattern
on our Page or vial mail.
Hello from Germany,
herbert

http://www.bastelzauber.com

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 19:30:15 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ? Temp mellts solder
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:00:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.17011.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.145423.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Michael J. Greer wrote:
> 
> Shirley-
> 
> 60/40 solder melts at just over
> 600 degrees Fahrenheit.  Beats
> me why it melted in a 200 degree
> oven.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


maybe it's more of a gradual heat. like the soak time in a kiln. i could
probably melt solder with the sun and a magnifing glass.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 21:01:41 1998
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X-Path: ppp11.uwaterloo.ca!dmg
From: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: A disheartening quest.
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:27:58 -0500
Message-ID: <199802280127.UAA00237@violeta.uwaterloo.ca>
Precedence: bulk


Here I am, fellow SGers, taking the bus back home after a quest that
proved fruitless.

As I expressed in a previous message, I am a starter of this
trade. For my next project I have decided to make a tiny lamp. I have
sort of chosen my glass --although I have not created my pattern yet.

So why backwards? Because, with no experience with lamps whatsoever, I
have prefer to find a lamp stand and build my lamp around it. So far,
so good. Unfortunately, the only SG store reachable by bus --as I
don't have a car-- stocks only very expensive Tiffany-style stands,
which are in the neighborhood of 60 to 100 Can. dollars. Too much for
a project that wants to be a practice rather than a polish project. 

To go to a lightining store today I decided. Futile it was. They
stocked Tiffany's, but did not sell the hardware, only the finished
product. The owner suggested I tried the SG stores around...

So, here is my plea to all you. Can you please tell me in which kind
of stores I can buy stands that can be used for tiny lamps? I don't
want something very expesive (what about under US$20). 

Or, what about those hanging lamps? Where can I the hardware buy?

Any leads will be gratefully appreciated.

dmg



--
Daniel M. German                  "Let us show our friendship for a man
                                   when he is alive and not after
                                   he is dead.
    F. Scott Fitzgerald ->          "
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

 
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 21:31:15 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RULES CHANGED!!!!
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:59:00 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.12590.0>
Precedence: bulk

For a test lets see if we can melt 50/50 or 60/40 with a light bulb....we
can start at 7 watts and go to 300 watts.
For another test, put a pan of water in the oven, and on a tray of foil, put
some solder, set the oven for 350 and see the water boil, see if the solder
melts....betting it WILL NOT! (anyone willing to guess at the temperature of
the boiling water)

If it stayed in the oven for 100 years, the solder still will not melt. The
temperature controlled with a thermostat will stay fairly constant. The
temperature will not be cumulative and increase on its own.

We are assuming Shirley is accurate in her tale or the temperature was
correctly reported at 200 in the oven.

Hope my plastic computer does not melt from cumulative light bulb usage on
my desk.

enjoy, H



weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 22:04:40 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest.
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:25:34 -0800
Message-ID: <199802280514.VAA02699@intergate.lasercom.net>
Precedence: bulk

I don't believe I have EVER seen a lamp base for less than $35-40. They
just don't come cheap!  I order mine from Warner-Criv, or Delphi when they
are on sale.  They have always been cheaper than any store I have found.  

NOTE: If it's your first order with Delphi you get to take off 25%! Not to
be sneezed at.

Good Luck,

Jean
jean@lasercom.net

----------
> From: Daniel M. German <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: A disheartening quest.
> Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 5:27 PM
> 
> 
> Here I am, fellow SGers, taking the bus back home after a quest that
> proved fruitless.
> 
> As I expressed in a previous message, I am a starter of this
> trade. For my next project I have decided to make a tiny lamp. I have
> sort of chosen my glass --although I have not created my pattern yet.
> 
> So why backwards? Because, with no experience with lamps whatsoever, I
> have prefer to find a lamp stand and build my lamp around it. So far,
> so good. Unfortunately, the only SG store reachable by bus --as I
> don't have a car-- stocks only very expensive Tiffany-style stands,
> which are in the neighborhood of 60 to 100 Can. dollars. Too much for
> a project that wants to be a practice rather than a polish project. 
> 
> To go to a lightining store today I decided. Futile it was. They
> stocked Tiffany's, but did not sell the hardware, only the finished
> product. The owner suggested I tried the SG stores around...
> 
> So, here is my plea to all you. Can you please tell me in which kind
> of stores I can buy stands that can be used for tiny lamps? I don't
> want something very expesive (what about under US$20). 
> 
> Or, what about those hanging lamps? Where can I the hardware buy?
> 
> Any leads will be gratefully appreciated.
> 
> dmg
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Daniel M. German                  "Let us show our friendship for a man
>                                    when he is alive and not after
>                                    he is dead.
>     F. Scott Fitzgerald ->          "
> http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
> dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca
> 
>  
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 22:44:10 1998
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest.
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 01:17:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.201710.0>
References: <<199802280127.UAA00237@violeta.uwaterloo.ca>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Unlurking for a short moment, doing a show this weekend and way past
when I should have been asleep.
Are there any Home Depot, Lowe's or other big home improvement ware
house type stores in your area?
How about Wal-Mart, K-mart or Target to mention a few of the USA super
stores?  They all handle small lamps, and often very inexpensive brass
or bronze bases.  Or large Craft Stores of the 'Craft Depot' type.

Hope this helps
Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Daniel M. German wrote:
> 
> Here I am, fellow SGers, taking the bus back home after a quest that
> proved fruitless.
> 
> As I expressed in a previous message, I am a starter of this
> trade. For my next project I have decided to make a tiny lamp. I have
> sort of chosen my glass --although I have not created my pattern yet.
> 
> So why backwards? Because, with no experience with lamps whatsoever, I
> have prefer to find a lamp stand and build my lamp around it. So far,
> so good. Unfortunately, the only SG store reachable by bus --as I
> don't have a car-- stocks only very expensive Tiffany-style stands,
> which are in the neighborhood of 60 to 100 Can. dollars. Too much for
> a project that wants to be a practice rather than a polish project.
> 
> To go to a lightining store today I decided. Futile it was. They
> stocked Tiffany's, but did not sell the hardware, only the finished
> product. The owner suggested I tried the SG stores around...
> 
> So, here is my plea to all you. Can you please tell me in which kind
> of stores I can buy stands that can be used for tiny lamps? I don't
> want something very expesive (what about under US$20).
> 
> Or, what about those hanging lamps? Where can I the hardware buy?
> 
> Any leads will be gratefully appreciated.
> 
> dmg
> 
> --
> Daniel M. German                  "Let us show our friendship for a man
>                                    when he is alive and not after
>                                    he is dead.
>     F. Scott Fitzgerald ->          "
> http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
> dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca
> 
> 
> ----
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----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 22:52:52 1998
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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: horsehair/horsesense
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:28:15 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.142815.0>
Precedence: bulk



-----Original Message-----
From:	Laurean [SMTP:vlclover@rconnect.com]
Sent:	Friday, February 27, 1998 3:25 PM
To:	Michael J. Greer
Subject:	Re: patina and putty
Dani said?
  "You don't use  patina when you cement, the cement does the job for you. 
 Polish up  that lead good with a nice wad of horsehair!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Laurean said
Hi Dani, Thanks! Horsehair, that one threw me for a minute!  But it makes 
perfect sense!  Now the search for a horse!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I talked to the SPCA (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals), 
and they said that it is important to remove the hair from the horse 
first!!!

Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada


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From owner-glass Fri Feb 27 23:10:53 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest.
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:37:22 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.143722.0>
Precedence: bulk

I can sell you mini bases for a lot less than $35 to $40.

I can sell you midi bases for less than $40.00

I can sell anyone on the list bases!

I have bases for sale!

Will even throw in the bulb!!!!!

enjoy, H

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 01:51:44 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: quick set cement
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 04:36:19 +0000
Message-ID: <m0y8iZL-0000kBC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

> However, spike heels are another matter.  They can get snagged 

This is probably why it's illegal to wear high heels in New York 
City. Of course, women still wear them, but if they snag a heel and 
twist an ankle (or worse), they can't sue the City, 'cause they were 
in violation.


Albert

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 04:53:19 1998
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X-Path: fast.net!charles
From: Charles Warner <charles@fast.net>
To: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest.-in search of lamp bases
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 07:32:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.23230.0>
References: <<199802280127.UAA00237@violeta.uwaterloo.ca>>
Organization: Warner-Crivellaro
Precedence: bulk

Daniel:

You should be able to find what you are looking for in any well
stocked stained glass store.

However if not;

A quick look in my own catalog shows:
	Tiffany Jr. bases from 29.95	complete
	Mini bases from $12.95 (you supply the socket and cord, 
		or order them separately for $3.37)
	mini bases from $19.95		completely wired
	Midi Bases from $21.95		completely wired
	Standard bases from $23.95	completely wired
	3 light cluster bases from $79.95, completely wired
	We also stock Tiffany reproduction bronze bases

These are first quality lamp bases at regular, every day prices.
These prices do not take into account sales, quantity discounts or 
wholesale prices.

We stock several hundred different styles of lamp bases.

176 page full color catalog featuring over 5,000 items can 
be purchased at:
http://www.warner-criv.com      email: info@warner-criv.com

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro
800-523-4242 or (610) 264-1100
800-523-4245 or (610) 264-5500 spanish speaking operators

> Here I am, fellow SGers, taking the bus back home after a quest that
> proved fruitless.
> 
> As I expressed in a previous message, I am a starter of this
> trade. For my next project I have decided to make a tiny lamp. I have
> sort of chosen my glass --although I have not created my pattern yet.
> 
> So why backwards? Because, with no experience with lamps whatsoever, I
> have prefer to find a lamp stand and build my lamp around it. So far,
> so good. Unfortunately, the only SG store reachable by bus --as I
> don't have a car-- stocks only very expensive Tiffany-style stands,
> which are in the neighborhood of 60 to 100 Can. dollars. Too much for
> a project that wants to be a practice rather than a polish project.
> 
> To go to a lightining store today I decided. Futile it was. They
> stocked Tiffany's, but did not sell the hardware, only the finished
> product. The owner suggested I tried the SG stores around...
> 
> So, here is my plea to all you. Can you please tell me in which kind
> of stores I can buy stands that can be used for tiny lamps? I don't
> want something very expesive (what about under US$20).
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 07:53:08 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Howard and Elaine Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: RULES CHANGED!!!!
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:24:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.5245.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.12590.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote:
> 
> For a test lets see if we can melt 50/50 or 60/40 with a light bulb....we
> can start at 7 watts and go to 300 watts.
> For another test, put a pan of water in the oven, and on a tray of foil, put
> some solder, set the oven for 350 and see the water boil, see if the solder
> melts....betting it WILL NOT! (anyone willing to guess at the temperature of
> the boiling water)
> 
> If it stayed in the oven for 100 years, the solder still will not melt. The
> temperature controlled with a thermostat will stay fairly constant. The
> temperature will not be cumulative and increase on its own.
> 
> We are assuming Shirley is accurate in her tale or the temperature was
> correctly reported at 200 in the oven.
> 
> Hope my plastic computer does not melt from cumulative light bulb usage on
> my desk.
> 
> enjoy, H
> 
> weaver51@teleport.com
> http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
> enmeshed in the internet
> trapped in the world wide web
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the thing is were not talking a whole roll of solder, just the thin
solder bead. solder as a whole may not melt, as a whole. but in thin
amounts, it may melt with less heat. and combine that with the glass
heating up next to it, and the foil. their may be enough heat (hotter in
other ovens), to melt some of that tinned out solder.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 08:20:05 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest.
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:27:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.52710.0>
References: <<199802280514.VAA02699@intergate.lasercom.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Jean wrote:
> 
> I don't believe I have EVER seen a lamp base for less than $35-40. They
> just don't come cheap!  I order mine from Warner-Criv, or Delphi when they
> are on sale.  They have always been cheaper than any store I have found.
> 
> NOTE: If it's your first order with Delphi you get to take off 25%! Not to
> be sneezed at.
> 
> Good Luck,
> 
> Jean
> jean@lasercom.net
> 
> ----------
> > From: Daniel M. German <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: A disheartening quest.
> > Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 5:27 PM
> >
> >
> > Here I am, fellow SGers, taking the bus back home after a quest that
> > proved fruitless.
> >
> > As I expressed in a previous message, I am a starter of this
> > trade. For my next project I have decided to make a tiny lamp. I have
> > sort of chosen my glass --although I have not created my pattern yet.
> >
> > So why backwards? Because, with no experience with lamps whatsoever, I
> > have prefer to find a lamp stand and build my lamp around it. So far,
> > so good. Unfortunately, the only SG store reachable by bus --as I
> > don't have a car-- stocks only very expensive Tiffany-style stands,
> > which are in the neighborhood of 60 to 100 Can. dollars. Too much for
> > a project that wants to be a practice rather than a polish project.
> >
> > To go to a lightining store today I decided. Futile it was. They
> > stocked Tiffany's, but did not sell the hardware, only the finished
> > product. The owner suggested I tried the SG stores around...
> >
> > So, here is my plea to all you. Can you please tell me in which kind
> > of stores I can buy stands that can be used for tiny lamps? I don't
> > want something very expesive (what about under US$20).
> >
> > Or, what about those hanging lamps? Where can I the hardware buy?
> >
> > Any leads will be gratefully appreciated.
> >
> > dmg
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Daniel M. German                  "Let us show our friendship for a man
> >                                    when he is alive and not after
> >                                    he is dead.
> >     F. Scott Fitzgerald ->          "
> > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
> > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca
> >
> >
> > ----

yeah bases are kind of pricey, that's why i vowed never to spend a ton
of money on a "common" metal base. instead for any lamp i make i'll try
to make a glass base, like the fish lamp; and the soon to be Sky City
lamp.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
2-2-98 New Pages Added: 22 New Stained Glass Links, 7 New Projects Added
and My Updated Shop Photo's
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 09:33:23 1998
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X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat
From: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
To: Jean <jean@lasercom.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest.
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:02:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.7242.0>
References: <<199802280514.VAA02699@intergate.lasercom.net>>
Organization: The Stained Glass Place
Precedence: bulk

I don't know what size lamp base is needed, but I carry them from $17
and up, with the electrical being extra on most...from 3-5 bucks.
Carolyn
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 09:57:13 1998
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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Solder on a hot tin roof
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 08:46:52 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.04652.0>
Precedence: bulk


just thinking here Howard, the sun on a hot day on a beach, the water in my 
glass does not boil but I do and the egg on my black car fries. radiant 
heat can do strange things. The oven air temp is set at 350, the element is 
red hot, the water is at 212, what temp will the solder reach if it is not 
on a heat dissipating or blocking surface. lots to consider here, but this 
is just musing, or is that amusing
Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada

-----Original Message-----
From:	Howard and Elaine Rubin [SMTP:weaver51@teleport.com]
Sent:	Friday, February 27, 1998 8:59 PM
To:	bungi
Subject:	RULES CHANGED!!!!

	For another test, put a pan of water in the oven, and on a tray of foil, 
put some solder, set the oven for 350 and see the water boil, see if the 
solder melts....betting it WILL NOT! (anyone willing to guess at the 
temperature of the boiling water)
	If it stayed in the oven for 100 years, the solder still will not melt. 
The temperature controlled with a thermostat will stay fairly constant. The 
temperature will not be cumulative and increase on its own.

sorry for you getting this twice H

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 10:02:58 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ncscoutr
From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bungi Life
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:22:58 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.82258.0>
References: <<199802270244.CAA17649@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Dear All,
I have 2 things to share, (well actually more but I'll try to limit it
to just two for now anyhow!)

1) I love how bungians are so experimental: Lemon Juice Flux, Soot & Wax
Patina, scoring and cutting practice on ice, hot & cold glass cutting,
Homemade Cement Recipes, Scrap Yard Light Tables,
'Down-to-the-Last-Tiny-Bit' Glass Use Ideas... Y'all are the greatest!!!

2) A little more about my background. I'm one of those addictive
personalities, i.e. "Hi my name is Valerie and I'm a glassaholic", OR
"Hi my name is Valerie and I'm a computerholic." These two things are
completely interchangable with me. I am completely and totally in love
with both. I developed the curriculum for, and teach Computer Resource
classes 3 days a week at a local private school to grades K-8. I teach
everything from graphics manipulation to presentation, word-processing
to spreadsheets, HTML and writing for the Web to desktop publishing for
the yearbook and school paper. I'm also crazy about children but can't
have any more. I'm thankful to have been blessed with a 16 year old son,
(most of the time!<BG>)  I have a wonderful husband who is a building
contractor, and he even built my studios for me when I went
professional! He bought my first grinder for me too, what a PEACH, eh?
We bought a 120 year old post-Civil War house (USA Civil War that is,)
to renovate and restore. (It still contains the original hand-cast glass
in 70-75 percent of the [32] 6-over-6 wood windows too! YUMMY!)

I started learning how to cut and work with glass when I was 12 and it
came so naturally that I took it for granted for a while. I eventually
began to realize that I could actually be artistic for the very first
time in my life. That only with wonderful glass, lead, solder, and my
own imagination, I could create something truly beautiful and carry that
translation over in such a way that almost anyone could see and
appreciate just what *I saw!! It was an incredible revelation for me. I
had always been able to see beauty and appreciate beauty which others
had the talent to create; but I had never been successful at trying to
create anything of beauty myself--until I got serious about stained
glass. It changed my life. It stretches me, encourages me, frees me,
limits me gently, grows me. Here's one of the loveliest things... I can
say those same things about bungi when it's at it's best. Wow. Thank you
all so much! Thanks for sharing, in my life, my enthusiasm, my
irritation(s), my befuddlement(s), and my glass work. I remain indebted
and indeed, grateful.

Always,
Valerie Tydings Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.  "Smooth seas never made a good sailor."
> ----
Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Dani, Hi All,
> 
> First we have got lemon as flux, then ice and ice cubes (Thanks for
> the challenge Valerie! Loved it.  Freezer compartment full of Toby's
> fish-fingers, so experiment will have to wait until onset of
> summer...).
> Now Dani has really excelled herself and found my "beloved
> stove-black" in an American version.  Beats patina any day!!
<<Snippity-snip>>
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 10:25:25 1998
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From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Etching tempered glass
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:30:31 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.93031.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.7350.0>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Dear Mike P.,
this is the only one of your questions to which I feel any confidence in
replying. If, indeed, these panels were tempered by the company which
produced the curve, then the obligation to certify them rests solely
with that same company as a matter of legality. If the contractor wants
them stenciled as certified the only legally qualified company to do
this is again, the company that tempered them or sold them to the
contractor as tempered. If anyone gets injured from even noe of these
panels turning out to be UNtempered glass and you/you company were paid
to stencil them in order for them to be passed by the inspector &
installed you could be held not only civilly liable for damages as a
result of injury, but ALSO criminally for fraud, and conspiracy. I would
walk far, FAR away from this job as tactfully as possible.
V T Phelps (whose THIRD inanimate love in life is either music or United
States Law!)
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
"Respect for ourselves guides our morals;
 deference to others guides our manners."
> ----
mike peck wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
<<Snippity-snip>>
> Second question, am I assuming any legal liability by placing a
> certification label on a product that was made by someone else, and
> should have been certified by them in the first place?
> Mike Peck
> Summit Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 11:13:26 1998
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Subject: Re: IGGA News Memo
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:34:43 -0500
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:	"Albert Lewis", INTERNET:alewis@vgernet.net
TO:	"Michael J. Greer", GreerStudios
DATE:	2/27/98 5:25 PM

RE:	Re: IGGA News Memo

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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
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 =

> What IS the Architectural Art Glass
> Light Show?  Who is represented?
> Why does it exist?  What's it all about?

Oy! So many questions! The Light Show was something I dreamed up a =

few years ago out of sheer frustration that even a monthly full-color =

magazine couldn't begin to show the wealth of work going on. So I got =

eight slide projectors and four rear-projection screens, set it all =

up in a dark room at Glass Craft Expo and ran 640 slides fading into =

and out of each other simultaneously on four screens. People sat on =

the floor and stayed for hours. From year to year, I'd change the =

slides. The equipment's all gone now, but the slides remain and I'm =

slowly putting them up online, as well as adding new slides as =

they're sent in.  Enough answers (for now)? <g>

Albert

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 11:36:22 1998
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X-Path: lasercom.net!jean
From: "Jean" <jean@lasercom.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest./Clarification
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:53:16 -0800
Message-ID: <199802281842.KAA27509@intergate.lasercom.net>
Precedence: bulk

>From several responses I have personally received it appears that I was
unclear in my earlier response to Daniel's message.

I would only buy from Delphi when items are ON SALE and/or you can get
their 25% off.  And then, only AFTER making a price comparison with W-C (as
Delphi's sale prices are all too often STILL HIGHER than W-C regular
prices).

It now appears that many of our Bungi-ites can supply lamp bases at
reasonable prices too.  I was totally un-aware of this (being with Bungi
for only 6 months, I have much yet to learn!). My feelings are, buy where
you get the   best quality for the best price, along with the best service
(for me that has always been Warner-Criv.).

Jean
jean@lasercom.net


> ----------
> > From: Daniel M. German <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: A disheartening quest.
> > Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 5:27 PM
> > 
> > 
> > Here I am, fellow SGers, taking the bus back home after a quest that
> > proved fruitless.
> > 
> > As I expressed in a previous message, I am a starter of this
> > trade. For my next project I have decided to make a tiny lamp. I have
> > sort of chosen my glass --although I have not created my pattern yet.
> > 
> > So why backwards? Because, with no experience with lamps whatsoever, I
> > have prefer to find a lamp stand and build my lamp around it. So far,
> > so good. Unfortunately, the only SG store reachable by bus --as I
> > don't have a car-- stocks only very expensive Tiffany-style stands,
> > which are in the neighborhood of 60 to 100 Can. dollars. Too much for
> > a project that wants to be a practice rather than a polish project. 
> > 
> > To go to a lightining store today I decided. Futile it was. They
> > stocked Tiffany's, but did not sell the hardware, only the finished
> > product. The owner suggested I tried the SG stores around...
> > 
> > So, here is my plea to all you. Can you please tell me in which kind
> > of stores I can buy stands that can be used for tiny lamps? I don't
> > want something very expesive (what about under US$20). 
> > 
> > Or, what about those hanging lamps? Where can I the hardware buy?
> > 
> > Any leads will be gratefully appreciated.
> > 
> > dmg
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Daniel M. German                  "Let us show our friendship for a man
> >                                    when he is alive and not after
> >                                    he is dead.
> >     F. Scott Fitzgerald ->          "
> > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
> > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca
> > 
> >  
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 12:03:28 1998
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From: Kopp <glassurgeon@clis.com>
To: All Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Copy writing?
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:44:48 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980228144448.006a63f8@mail.clis.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hello All,

Will someone tell me where to get info on the procedure and price of copy
writing patterns?

Thanks,
Dava
glassurgeon@clis.com


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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 12:32:03 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Solder melting in glass cubes.
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:56:24 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.35624.0>
References: <<1998Feb28.5245.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Thank you Mike Savad.
Mike Figgy(Thank you too, guess this is why you are the only sanctioned
stained glass in Canada) sent me a table of melting points for different
radios of lead/tin.
I used 50/50 which melts at 421F. I don't know about you, but my oven
says it can go to 500F.  Put a 3" square glass cube, 1/3 filled with
sand and shells, in a 200F oven and bake for 20 minutes. You do melt the
solder lines.  Not all, but enough to make you more work.
For you that have not been following this thread. I was making glass
cubes with sand and shells in them. I had not made my cubes correctly. 
When I was soldering the thing together, flux dripped into the cube and
clumped the sand.  I was trying to evaporate the flux and get rid of the
clumpy sand.
Since then I have learned.  Copper foil all the sides.  Put the sides
together, solder inside and out. Then when you put the lid on your cube,
take your foil and stick it to the lid and side at the same time.  Hard
to explain.  But you make a barrier with the foil, so the flux can't
drop inside your cube.  And of course you flux sparling.
I have found that you still get moisture in the cube(living at the beach
and all), but it disappears as mysteriously as it appeared.  I know
condensation and evaporation.  What I am saying is, don't worry about
it.
> 
> the thing is were not talking a whole roll of solder, just the thin
> solder bead. solder as a whole may not melt, as a whole. but in thin
> amounts, it may melt with less heat. and combine that with the glass
> heating up next to it, and the foil. their may be enough heat (hotter in
> other ovens), to melt some of that tinned out solder.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
>
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 12:58:57 1998
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From: Margaret41 <Margaret41@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Cat amongst the Pigeons...? Vaguely SG.....
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:57:19 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-27 01:54:07 EST, suzy@ComCAT.COM writes:


suzy@ComCAT.COM writes:
<< here in my little studio in Pennsylvania. >>

Where in PA??? I live in Philadelphia - within a 1hr drive? Thanks


I also wondered what the bungi meant - i chalked it off as the ISP provider.

Margaret
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 13:02:30 1998
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From: Margaret41 <Margaret41@aol.com>
To: dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest.
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:24:28 EST
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.202428.0>
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For lamp bases, have you considered mail order?  I also will be doing my first
lamp - practice...I was surprised at the base prices but decided to get a nice
one that would eventually be placed under a really nice (after I've practiced)
lampshade...i believe in re-cycling.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 13:30:09 1998
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From: Margaret41 <Margaret41@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest.
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:27:17 EST
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In a message dated 98-02-28 01:05:07 EST, jean@lasercom.net writes:

<< I don't believe I have EVER seen a lamp base for less than $35-40. >>


I've seen them as low as $13 - admittedly they are small (maybe about 7")
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 13:40:38 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Copy writing?
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:35:39 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.43539.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19980228144448.006a63f8@mail.clis.com>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Here is there online address

http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> Will someone tell me where to get info on the procedure and price of copy
> writing patterns?
>
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 13:59:20 1998
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X-Path: rconnect.com!vlclover
From: "Laurean" <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: "pkelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Re: patina and putty
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 98 15:02:38 PST
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References: <<12D4EB8A.DA9B942B@n-link.com>>
Precedence: bulk



----------
> Are we looking for a horse or a horse's ass. I know plenty. There are =
12
> in my backyard now (horses with tails).
> (8-)
>
> Patrick
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So.....what are you implying? <g>

Laurean

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 14:10:57 1998
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From: "Laurean" <vlclover@rconnect.com>
To: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Re: horsehair/horsesense
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 98 15:19:28 PST
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.231928.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.142815.0>>
Precedence: bulk



> I talked to the SPCA (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals)=
,
> and they said that it is important to remove the hair from the horse =

> first!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OHHHHH! I didn't think of that!

Laurean

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 14:45:30 1998
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X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike
From: Mike Simpson <mike@jackel.demon.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: white lines and bevels, the saga continues
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:26:04 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <199802281626.QAA00302@jackel.demon.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

First, a thank you to all who responded to my queries regarding
sealed glazing units. I havn't had a chance to get back on the
computer till now as I have been stripping, cleaning and rebuilding
the panels that I had cemented, in the process learning that it is
frustratingly difficult to clean the cement out of glue chip glass.
I also learned that companies that sell household washing liquids
marketed as "kind and gentle to your hands" should have their 
marketing directors immersed in a tub of it.

Another thing I learned was that different trades use the same
phrases to mean wildly different things, for the double glazing
business the phrase "hand made glass" is what we would call a 
leaded panel while "H section" is a particular size of the edge
spacer that they use in the sealed units. By the way, is there an
equivalent name for "sealed unit double glazing" in the U.S.?

One problem that I have overcome is the fitting of the knife edge 
bevels that are sold here without using cement. A very light "C"
section came sold here as "sun catcher came" when stretched will
fit nicely in the channel of normal came and hold the thin edges
of the bevels very snugly.

Now all that is left is to find if the customer is happy.

Mike Simpson.

d  
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 15:08:24 1998
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X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3
From: Garry  & Linda   McKenna <mnvve3@kwic.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: lamp bases
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:06:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980228220653.0068786c@mail.kwic.com>
Precedence: bulk

Daniel:  There is more that one way to skin a cat.  The prices our good
friends at bungi are quoting are US$  so, we to the north must factor in the
exchange.  You could start checking out the used furniture and antique
stores, flea markets, and now that the good weather is near at hand, don't
forget that wonderful invention - the yard sales!  There is a vast treasure
trove out there waiting to be discovered. Start hunting!
Linda 
GARRY & LINDA McKENNA
  TILLSONBURG ONT CANADA
   519 842-9909
  
 LINDA'S HOBBY: STAINED GLASS
 GARRY'S HOBBY:  AMATURE RADIO CALL VE3MNV

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 15:14:25 1998
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From: Kopp <glassurgeon@clis.com>
To: All Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Oops! I meant Copyrighting?
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:11:52 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980228171152.0069657c@mail.clis.com>
Precedence: bulk

Oops, Please allow me to correct myself before everyone else does.

Hello All,

Will someone tell me where to get info on the procedure and price of
COPYRIGHTING patterns?



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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 15:34:33 1998
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X-Path: nb.net!sigglass
From: Zane <sigglass@nb.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest.
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:47:38 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.114738.0>
References: <<199802280514.VAA02699@intergate.lasercom.net>>
Organization: Signature Glass Company
Precedence: bulk

We sell lamp bases for the smaller shades starting at about $18 - $25. 
Larger bases are a little more, but not by much.

Jean, what part of the country do you live in?

Thanks

Zane



Jean wrote:
> 
> I don't believe I have EVER seen a lamp base for less than $35-40. They
> just don't come cheap!  I order mine from Warner-Criv, or Delphi when they
> are on sale.  They have always been cheaper than any store I have found.
> 
> NOTE: If it's your first order with Delphi you get to take off 25%! Not to
> be sneezed at.
> 
> Good Luck,
> 
> Jean
> jean@lasercom.net
> 
> ----------
> > From: Daniel M. German <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: A disheartening quest.
> > Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 5:27 PM
> >
> >
> > Here I am, fellow SGers, taking the bus back home after a quest that
> > proved fruitless.
> >
> > As I expressed in a previous message, I am a starter of this
> > trade. For my next project I have decided to make a tiny lamp. I have
> > sort of chosen my glass --although I have not created my pattern yet.
> >
> > So why backwards? Because, with no experience with lamps whatsoever, I
> > have prefer to find a lamp stand and build my lamp around it. So far,
> > so good. Unfortunately, the only SG store reachable by bus --as I
> > don't have a car-- stocks only very expensive Tiffany-style stands,
> > which are in the neighborhood of 60 to 100 Can. dollars. Too much for
> > a project that wants to be a practice rather than a polish project.
> >
> > To go to a lightining store today I decided. Futile it was. They
> > stocked Tiffany's, but did not sell the hardware, only the finished
> > product. The owner suggested I tried the SG stores around...
> >
> > So, here is my plea to all you. Can you please tell me in which kind
> > of stores I can buy stands that can be used for tiny lamps? I don't
> > want something very expesive (what about under US$20).
> >
> > Or, what about those hanging lamps? Where can I the hardware buy?
> >
> > Any leads will be gratefully appreciated.
> >
> > dmg
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Daniel M. German                  "Let us show our friendship for a man
> >                                    when he is alive and not after
> >                                    he is dead.
> >     F. Scott Fitzgerald ->          "
> > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
> > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca
> >
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 15:48:26 1998
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X-Path: chescom.net!dmm
From: "Don McDonald" <dmm@chescom.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patina and putty
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 17:11:17 -0600
Message-ID: <s4f84543.017@chescom.net>
Precedence: bulk

If you want to find a cheap source for horsehair for polishing, check
out the shoe department at K-mart or WalMart.  Kiwi shoe brushes are
usually made of horsehair. (mine is)

>>> "Laurean" <vlclover@rconnect.com> 02/27 5:25 PM >>>
  You don't use =3D
>
> patina when you cement, the cement
> does the job for you.  Polish up =3D
>
> that lead good with a nice wad of
> horsehair!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Dani,
	Thanks! Horsehair, that one threw me for
a minute!  But it makes perfect sense!  Now the search
for a horse!

Laurean




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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 16:47:53 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest./Clarification
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:41:54 +0000
Message-ID: <199802282346.XAA18766@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Daniel,
This may sound outrageous, but have you considered making you OWN 
lamp-base??
 Foir instance, out of an interesting  & unusual shaped bottle/ glass 
container.
All you need to do is to drill a hole for the cable and make sure you 
have a top that will accommodate the bulb-holder etc. Weight the 
innards of the bottle with either clear scrap-glass, gravel or 
interesting coloured small stones (which will also hide the cable).

Small,hollow,  interesting shapes of tree-stubs with roots as  
lamp-feet. I have a whole collection of various sized hollow 
tree-roots drying out and ready for processing, gathered for nothing 
during my walks with Toby in the country-side.. Again, once you have 
cleaned them and polished them  (and occasionally dipped them in 
wood-hardener) and "balanced" them (i.e. sawing bits off here & 
there), make a hole  to thread the cable through, fill up the hollow 
with scrap lead and wood-filler, find/make  something for the top 
that will also hold the bulb-holder. I know it sounds simplistic, but 
this way you can certainly make your lamp to suite your base. 
And what can be more exciting than a natural shape that Mother Nature 
has offered you as a gift - for nothing....
No more bus-rides and no more tears....   ;-)  And certainly 
DIFFERENT!!!
 Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> > Here I am, fellow SGers, taking the bus back home after a quest that
> > proved fruitless.
> > 
> > As I expressed in a previous message, I am a starter of this
> > trade. For my next project I have decided to make a tiny lamp. I have
> > sort of chosen my glass --although I have not created my pattern yet.
> > 
> > So why backwards? Because, with no experience with lamps whatsoever, I
> > have prefer to find a lamp stand and build my lamp around it. So far,
> > so good. Unfortunately, the only SG store reachable by bus --as I
> > don't have a car-- stocks only very expensive Tiffany-style stands,
> > which are in the neighborhood of 60 to 100 Can. dollars. Too much for
> > a project that wants to be a practice rather than a polish project. 
> > 
> > To go to a lightining store today I decided. Futile it was. They
> > stocked Tiffany's, but did not sell the hardware, only the finished
> > product. The owner suggested I tried the SG stores around...
> > 
> > So, here is my plea to all you. Can you please tell me in which kind
> > of stores I can buy stands that can be used for tiny lamps? I don't
> > want something very expesive (what about under US$20). 
> > 
> > Or, what about those hanging lamps? Where can I the hardware buy?
> > 
> > Any leads will be gratefully appreciated.
> > 
> > dmg
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Daniel M. German                  "Let us show our friendship for a man
> >                                    when he is alive and not after
> >                                    he is dead.
> >     F. Scott Fitzgerald ->          "
> > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
> > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca
> > 
> >  
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 17:17:03 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: white lines and bevels, the saga continues
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 00:52:03 +0000
Message-ID: <199802282356.XAA20545@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Sorry Mike,

I had to laugh!
In sympathy - mainly....

A bunch of "Fairies", ... yes...?   :->

I also learned that companies that sell household washing liquids
marketed as "kind and gentle to your hands" should have their 
marketing directors immersed in a tub of it.

Something I am still trying to make sense of, especially since a lot 
of terminology is "imported" from other English speaking countries 
and take on yet ANOTHER different meaning.... :-(

Another thing I learned was that different trades use the same
phrases to mean wildly different things, for the double glazing
business the phrase "hand made glass" is what we would call a 
leaded panel while "H section" is a particular size of the edge
spacer that they use in the sealed units. By the way, is there an
equivalent name for "sealed unit double glazing" in the U.S.?

Yep, I know the one you mean;
Goodness, how much did you stretch it though?  I know it's fairly 
thin, but I didn't know that  they could be stretched THAT much...

 A very light "C" section came sold here as "sun catcher came" when 
stretched will fit nicely in the channel of normal came and hold the 
thin edges of the bevels very snugly.

He'd BETTER be!!!!
Now all that is left is to find if the customer is happy.

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
P.S. Did you get any joy from Kansa-Glass???
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 18:20:20 1998
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X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts
From: Melanie Dunstan <allcrafts@p085.aone.net.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Off Topic: Looking for Cody.....
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 09:37:14 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Mar1.173714.0>
Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services
Precedence: bulk

Apologies to the Group. I've been waiting for a reply to an urgent email
from Cody, the Glass Guru, for a while, and my follow-up message, sent
just now, was a failed delivery.

Please, Cody, or anyone in touch with him currently, could you email me
privately? Much appreciated, and many thanks to you all for putting up
with this message.
-- Catcha
Melanie Dunstan, in Perth, Australia
Allcrafts for Unusual Crafts  http://www.ozemail.com.au/~allcraft
Psst! Ask about joining CraftsPages perpetual Craft Fair! Pass It On!

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 18:49:06 1998
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X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest./Clarification
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:39:27 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.133927.0>
References: <<199802282346.XAA18766@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service  & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Toby (with Elisabeth's help) wrote:

> This may sound outrageous, but have you considered making you OWN
> lamp-base??

I completely agree, Elisabeth.   A client of mine made a
lampbase using copper pipe and fittings (he's a plumber).  I
designed and constructed a flat-panel lamp with the
appearance of a pipe maze.  The crowning glory was the sink
stopper finial.  A most unique piece that looks wonderful in
his young son's room.

> Small,hollow,  interesting shapes of tree-stubs with roots as
> lamp-feet. I have a whole collection of various sized hollow
> tree-roots drying out and ready for processing...

Dried cactus branches are also great (and free in the
desert).  I am in the process of designing a shade with
cactus flowers for a lampbase I'm constructing from cactus
"skeletons" collected on my last trip to Arizona.  Should be
quite unusual.

Living in my head is also a design of a geode lampbase with
an agate slice shade.......aaahhhhhhh, SOMEDAY!

Thanks Elisabeth...now I feel less weird about my "nature's
treasures" collecting.


Shirley Suter
Grapeland, Tx.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 18:51:34 1998
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X-Path: eagle.ca!glass
From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: lamp bases
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:25:53 -0500
Message-ID: <v01530501b11e66aafff7@[206.186.242.156]>
Precedence: bulk

Garry and Linda wrote:

>Daniel:  There is more that one way to skin a cat.  The prices our good
>friends at bungi are quoting are US$  so, we to the north must factor in the
>exchange.  You could start checking out the used furniture and antique
>stores, flea markets, and now that the good weather is near at hand, don't
>forget that wonderful invention - the yard sales!  There is a vast treasure
>trove out there waiting to be discovered. Start hunting!
>Linda
>GARRY & LINDA McKENNA

Also, for those of us in Ontario, there is another cost consideration - and
that is CSA approval. Any electrical product you buy from an Ontario
retailer has to have gone therough the Canadian Safety Association (I think
that's what it stands for) Inspection. These inspections are thorough but
expensive, and they add a few dollars to the cost of our lampbases (and
grinders, and soldering irons), and they are not included in any product
bought from the US or Quebec.

Also, these days, you can approximate the real CDN$ cost of ordering from
the States by doubling the US$ amount. By the time you factor in exchange
rate (now over 40% or over 50% if you use a credit card) , frieght costs,
customs fees and brokerage fees and you will still have to pay GST, you
will be paying at least double. And then if you don't like what you got,
good luck returning it! I speak from much frustrating experience - buy
Canadian!

Sarah


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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 19:12:46 1998
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X-Path: eagle.ca!glass
From: glass@eagle.ca (Sarah)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest./Clarification
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:30:00 -0500
Message-ID: <v01530502b11e6a27d1d6@[206.186.242.156]>
Precedence: bulk

Elisabeth -

What a wonderful idea! I'll be heading out to the local beach tomorrow to
search for some new driftwood lamp bases!

Sarah

>Dear Daniel,

>Small,hollow,  interesting shapes of tree-stubs with roots as
>lamp-feet. I have a whole collection of various sized hollow
>tree-roots drying out and ready for processing, gathered for nothing
>during my walks with Toby in the country-side.. Again, once you have
>cleaned them and polished them  (and occasionally dipped them in
>wood-hardener) and "balanced" them (i.e. sawing bits off here &
>there), make a hole  to thread the cable through, fill up the hollow
>with scrap lead and wood-filler, find/make  something for the top
>that will also hold the bulb-holder. I know it sounds simplistic, but
>this way you can certainly make your lamp to suite your base.
>And what can be more exciting than a natural shape that Mother Nature
>has offered you as a gift - for nothing....
>No more bus-rides and no more tears....   ;-)  And certainly
>DIFFERENT!!!
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
>
>> > Here I am, fellow SGers, taking the bus back home after a quest that
>> > proved fruitless.
>> >
>> > As I expressed in a previous message, I am a starter of this
>> > trade. For my next project I have decided to make a tiny lamp. I have
>> > sort of chosen my glass --although I have not created my pattern yet.
>> >
>> > So why backwards? Because, with no experience with lamps whatsoever, I
>> > have prefer to find a lamp stand and build my lamp around it. So far,
>> > so good. Unfortunately, the only SG store reachable by bus --as I
>> > don't have a car-- stocks only very expensive Tiffany-style stands,
>> > which are in the neighborhood of 60 to 100 Can. dollars. Too much for
>> > a project that wants to be a practice rather than a polish project.
>> >
>> > To go to a lightining store today I decided. Futile it was. They
>> > stocked Tiffany's, but did not sell the hardware, only the finished
>> > product. The owner suggested I tried the SG stores around...
>> >
>> > So, here is my plea to all you. Can you please tell me in which kind
>> > of stores I can buy stands that can be used for tiny lamps? I don't
>> > want something very expesive (what about under US$20).
>> >
>> > Or, what about those hanging lamps? Where can I the hardware buy?
>> >
>> > Any leads will be gratefully appreciated.
>> >
>> > dmg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Daniel M. German                  "Let us show our friendship for a man
>> >                                    when he is alive and not after
>> >                                    he is dead.
>> >     F. Scott Fitzgerald ->          "
>> > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
>> > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca
>> >
>> >
>> > ----
>> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 19:12:58 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Horsehair brushes
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:27:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.152723.0>
Precedence: bulk

Another good horsehair brush for
polishing up that lead came  we
discovered by accident - Mike bought
a new bench brush for me at the local
lumber store.  It kept sprouting legs
and walking off only to be found on
Michael's workbench!  He finally "fessed
up that he was using it to polish up =

the cames - worked better than anything
he'd ever used.  You know what - he's
right.  So look for this and buy two:

#54 Horsehair counter duster made
by Magnolia Brush Mfg. Inc. out of
Clarksville, TX - about $5.

Every once in a while you find a tool
that's downright irreplaceable!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 19:25:25 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "NCScouter" <ncscoutr@aol.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Bungi Life
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 98 21:27:40 -0500
Message-ID: <199803010225.VAA20210@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Valerie,

Thanks for the great letter. It's always good to know who we're 
communicating with!

Your new house sounds great. You have your work "cut out" for you. 
Although the old glass is pretty itself. Maybe you could incorporate some 
of that in your panels, if you choose to "glass" the house yourself.

This paragraph of yours touched me:
>I started learning how to cut and work with glass when I was 12 and it
came so naturally that I took it for granted for a while. I eventually
began to realize that I could actually be artistic for the very first
time in my life. That only with wonderful glass, lead, solder, and my
own imagination, I could create something truly beautiful and carry that
translation over in such a way that almost anyone could see and
appreciate just what *I saw!! It was an incredible revelation for me. I
had always been able to see beauty and appreciate beauty which others
had the talent to create; but I had never been successful at trying to
create anything of beauty myself--until I got serious about stained
glass. It changed my life. It stretches me, encourages me, frees me,
limits me gently, grows me. Here's one of the loveliest things... I can
say those same things about bungi when it's at it's best. Wow. Thank you
all so much! Thanks for sharing, in my life, my enthusiasm, my
irritation(s), my befuddlement(s), and my glass work. I remain indebted
and indeed, grateful.

My own personal note:
I grew up in the shadow of a very talented mother, a watercolor artist. I 
cannot draw and thought for years, "I am not creative." Even when I heard 
the word "creative" I would cringe. Then I found stained glass! By some 
miracle I have inherited from her, a good sense of color, and what better 
medium than light and glass? You have said exactly how I feel. Thanks!

Suzanne


Suzanne Albright
suzy@comcat.com


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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 20:35:18 1998
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From: ace <ace@voyageur.ca>
To: "\"glass@bungi.com\"" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: glass with tile
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:48:53 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Jan28.154853.0>
Precedence: bulk

re doing our kitchen, would like to have some stained glass incorperated
with the tile .have never attemped anything like this before . open to
suggestions.

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 22:32:05 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!ncscoutr
From: NCScouter <ncscoutr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass with tile
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 00:00:39 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.16039.0>
References: <<1998Jan28.154853.0>>
Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Hey Ace,

This is a golden opportunity for you to play with stained glass mosaic
'coasters'! The mold for the sqaure ones are the same size as a 4" wall
tile, and they can be applied the exact same way as regular ceramic
tiles too. You could incorporate a running pattern into several adjacent
coaster/tiles or a random kinda thing. I even like the idea of using
some textured pieces turned backwards and just as an example
incorporating into the same tile real seashells with a seahorse,
mermaid, or fish. You could do the same kinda thing with land snail
shells and some vegetables from the garden, or a stick cleaned of its
bark and lightly polished with a stained glass caterpiller climbing
it... You get the idea.
Ciao for now!
V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.

PS - I just found a special mold in a masonry supply catalog that's 2"d
X8"w X16"l. I'm dreaming up a pattern of a flower bed that I could use
these adhered to each block around the house foundation. Then I could
have a totally weed-free, year-round garden with all the colors that *I
want no matter what the light, soil, or planting zone!!! Whaddya'll
think? Maybe I could do a different time of year on each face of the
house? Include a representation of the neighbor's beastly mutt doing his
daily foundation christening?? Better yet, a stained glass picture of a
75 lb kitty cat with the latter dog's tail still hanging from its
Cheshire-like jaws!?? <giggling>
> ----
ace wrote:
> 
> re doing our kitchen, would like to have some stained glass incorperated
> with the tile .have never attemped anything like this before . open to
> suggestions.
>
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 22:51:30 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass with tile
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:45:04 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.13454.0>
References: <<1998Jan28.154853.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

How about making your own tile back splash with stained glass and
Mosasic Stone Cement.  The stuff they are selling to make coasters with.
It looks and acts like tile.  You could carry your theme over into the
back splash.  Then for some extra accents, make a couple of trivets to
go with that.
As for using the coasters as tile, I have been trying to find that out.
But maybe a few set in with regular tile, at places that would not get
alot of use.




ace wrote:
> 
> re doing our kitchen, would like to have some stained glass incorperated
> with the tile .have never attemped anything like this before . open to
> suggestions.
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 23:01:24 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cat eyes
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 01:13:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.201314.0>
References: <<199802270454.XAA29833@uz.comcat.com>>>
Precedence: bulk


>Suzanne had several good suggestions on eyes.  I've used paint before,
>also, but what I usually use for eyes on my hummingbirds, goldfish, 
>etc.
>are little solder blobs that I glue on.  I often have little drops of
>solder that dry up with a flat bottom and rounded top that work out
>perfectly for eyes.
>
>Steph ~
>
>
I too like to use solder blobs as eyes.  I flux a wooden board and drop
blobs of hot solder from my iron onto the board.  The flux on the board
makes them pull up high and round, then I wash, dry and dip  them into
silicone caulk and stick them on.  If you plan to patina, do it before
gluing.

Another technique I use is to solder a wire into a solder seam and bend
it to a contour that complements the design, then apply a dab of solder
to the end ( or in some cases the middle) of the wire as the eye.

Gary Dodge          Dodge Studio Designs    www.dodgestudio.com



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From owner-glass Sat Feb 28 23:20:42 1998
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From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: reply all
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:41:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Feb27.19414.0>
References: <<1998Feb27.145840.0>>
Precedence: bulk

>> What I do is hit the reply all button,
>LOL someone has made me look again I too have a reply to all button 
>now I
>won't have to work so hard at this mail stuff and send to the wrong 
>people.

I may be wrong here, but my understanding of the "reply all" button is to
automatically forward your reply to all addresses that you have put into
an address book.   If glass@bungi.com isn't in your book, the group will
not get the response.  And likewise if your aunt Sophie IS in the book,
she will get the message, whether she cares about glass or not..

Am I wrong?

Gary Dodge

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From owner-glass Sun Mar  1 00:39:36 1998
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From: "Northernlights (a/k/a Tracy)" <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: A disheartening quest./Clarification
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 01:18:42 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Feb28.191842.0>
References: <<v01530502b11e6a27d1d6@[206.186.242.156]>>
Precedence: bulk

I love that idea!!!  Not much here in the city but next time I go
camping I'll be scoping out the shores of Northern Minnesota for that
idea!  Thanks!

> 
> >Dear Daniel,
> 
> >Small,hollow,  interesting shapes of tree-stubs with roots as
> >lamp-feet. I have a whole collection of various sized hollow
> >tree-roots drying out and ready for processing, gathered for nothing
> >during my walks with Toby in the country-side.. Again, once you have
> >cleaned them and polished them  (and occasionally dipped them in
> >wood-hardener) and "balanced" them (i.e. sawing bits off here &
> >there), make a hole  to thread the cable through, fill up the hollow
> >with scrap lead and wood-filler, find/make  something for the top
> >that will also hold the bulb-holder. I know it sounds simplistic, but
> >this way you can certainly make your lamp to suite your base.
> >And what can be more exciting than a natural shape that Mother Nature
> >has offered you as a gift - for nothing....
> >No more bus-rides and no more tears....   ;-)  And certainly
> >DIFFERENT!!!
> > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
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