From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 03:02:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:02:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Drglass1 From: Drglass1@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: remove Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:01:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec1.1150.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 06:21:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:19:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.9C259C00" Subject: RE: Location for Sandi Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:17:44 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.71744.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.9C259C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Dany and Sandi,=20 I am from the Butler area of Western PA.. Have you tried Glass Classics = on Babcock Blvd.. There is also Sewickley Stained Glass, they have great = giftware type of stained glass, Molchany's is in Irwin.. He has = published several lamp patterns. Lots of nice lamps on display.. And for = the best deal, there is Youghigheny down in Connelsville, PA.., for = hobby size sheets of Yough glass you pay $1.50, and for stipple glass = you pay $3.00.. A hobby sheet is about 8 x 10.. They are even opened = on Sunday. Hope this gives you more places to go.. I try every shop = so maybe, 1 day I will try yours..=20 Gloria -----Original Message----- From: Daniela Birkelbach [SMTP:dany@city-net.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 5:36 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Location for Sandi Sandi, which stores do you frequent? I go to Signature Glass in Peters = Township and Williams Stained Glass in Bethel. Are there any in your part of town? Dany ---------- > From: mindwarp > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Location > Date: Sunday, November 23, 1997 10:50 PM >=20 > Daniela Birkelbach wrote: > >=20 > > Hi everyone! > >=20 > > I am a newbie as well (just about a year in Stained Glass) and live = in > > Pittsburgh, PA. (Bethel Park). Born in Cologne, Germany. I put a couple > > of my projects onto my webpage below. Check it out!. > > http://www.city-net.com/~dany/pictures.html#sunflower > >=20 > > I am enjoying this list very much! Thanks to everyone! > >=20 > > Dany > >=20 >=20 >=20 > I don't live too far from you Dany.... I live in Baldwin, 10 minutes > from Century III Mall. >=20 > Sandi > ;-) > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.9C259C00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig4LAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQAXAAAAUkU6IExvY2F0aW9uIGZvciBTYW5k aQCgBwEFgAMADgAAAM0HDAABAAkAEQAsAAEAKAEBIIADAA4AAADNBwwAAQAJAAkAAwABAPcAAQmA AQAhAAAAODFENEYzREEyMjZBRDExMTgyMUY0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA1AYBA5AGADQJAAAhAAAACwAC AAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AADvCL9K/rwB HgBwAAEAAAAXAAAAUkU6IExvY2F0aW9uIGZvciBTYW5kaQAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbz+Sr742vPU gmoiEdGCH0RFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAAAzaG91bmRzQHVz YW9yLm5ldAAAAAMABhAi6tbEAwAHEOsFAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABEQU5ZQU5EU0FOREksSUFNRlJP TVRIRUJVVExFUkFSRUFPRldFU1RFUk5QQUhBVkVZT1VUUklFREdMQVNTQ0xBU1NJQ1NPTkJBQkNP Q0tCTFZEVEhFUkVJU0FMU09TRVdJQ0tMAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAGwYAABcGAABZCgAATFpGdQ9PU613 AAoBAwH3IAKkA+MCAGOCaArAc2V0MCAHE4cCgwBQDvZwcnEyD/YmfQqACMggOwlvMjVmNQKACoF1 YwBQCwNjAwBBC2BuZzEwMzNdC6YgFlAKogqARABweYogAHBkBgJkaSwWdRJJFyBtIANSIHRowGUg QnV0bASQFyChCXBhIG9mFlBXB5ACdASSUEEuLiBI9GF2GQB5CGAY0AiBF1CWRwtgBBFDG/JpYwQg TwIgGRABoAWgY2sZEGy0dmQawVQY8AlwIAQA8RcgbHNvBlED8B1QGVD9FxBTAZALgBu2F8AY4RcQ Vw+AGxEJwWEFQGcGkHTmdxmRGNB5cBkAGeEaQHUflGcgBE0G8A9xFwAnRwQgHlELgCBJcgPwbs8a whkAD4AEIHB1AmAEAK8Y8BdQD7AbEHIHQCALYFxtcCVQITAaUnMa0Ezcb3QcsRnwAwBjGQAmgqsc sxegcwtReRrBQRdBdwIQBcAY4mIaMSjAGbBsiyBDHiRZCGBnaGkroOMJ8BcQZG93A6AkQQhQ9m4f sB6QdgMQGVAXwBqiwxfAKaNob2JiFxAAkP56GQAlsQ/AJ6MrcyLkGzODCrAXECQxLjUwF8B/FzIp shpABSALUCDhMAwz+C4wMBrBD/AuNi8CHkODBuAZMCA4IHggFZC/M3Id8RcRHiEmEQOgbyIQ8x+y HNFTdRdAKSEa4Dah3xjRHlEhYBsQMDQgBGAeIZcLUSgQBCB0HrBnbxrB/xhAG4AXEDZCOoElsDag FlDbHqEAwHkqMBfAMSjAMKH/GEAD8C1AOmMbQQ+gGsEWhP8b4AWwBzAWhD5/CpMLMCWQ/DM2AUAV EAFAEUAngAWQQnQQhDE2IC1B8k8rBRAhYG4mUU0HkHNh/GdlQfM+1kEEQNELE0EGYGktMTQ0AUAl kDGOODNQDMFFk2IgRgNh+joMg2IP4BbhCJALYBkQaGlyayzwYgDQL9BbYFNNVFA6N3AXAECUY2kh 8C0fsHQuBaB8bV0+1UbABmACMEcnVM0KUHM3cRfATm8bEAbQBxlhFAA8ATk5NyA1ljpAcBqQTUpn VG9HJ/ki80BiN1AhYEoSSmglcEZqQTFHJ1JlOidhY/0hMGkc0SmyF3NDn0SqQFTvC7YWkxd0Ptp3 K7BIsRpAnzkhBCAsMBszA1BlcQpQfQIwPxZQGEA6ABZQOdFTeyvAQpB0CHAZABvkJEFQ/w/ABJAE IE5wLFAlsAUgFoTtFzJXLTEHMG0GQR+KJDLmQg/AGPBsLj7aBxA38v8eEhbyJEE9MibBACAZ0jnQ fSxQPz7aFuI+2kHzQ0k+t0bUOQALgGQhoSawPGSm7EBzT7FJ4T5jxk5xTx//Y9VQplGbY8YW4BpQ UcA3RO1MOjNNBRWQOjEATbdkIPtp2Effd0ECRyBj1W04ZCDMSGk6tAIgZSFvb2/R5xhDGcAfsHdi CJAXIAQgxncs8AMgKGp1KlE0xL0ZwHkZsAXAJEEfeykXI+8lkBsRC4Fxd1BJoCeQT4B+ciugLXNz 8F4EGpAKwGv2KTOBFlBCBbAsZQkAWcD9LWFHBJADgTeROkElYHRBuxaEBaB1MgFxaBnhbRcQv0Dx UNIcsjnRfXFzsGIKsNdDICohCQB3GtBDGPAdUXdJoBnQGTAhXmVvwxUSdQUDIGgCQHA6Ly93J4IQ ShBJqS9+SUIvcA8ckFnyJ0CBoG1sI3P9N1Bmf1EEkECjgXBVlXHPoxhwCfBqb3kLgGc4BJclkQVA OtNtFIBoITWi/QBwazmzcN9v6mIob8ps3vMYQCwwbicFQHaTOdAesP5mCsEYkxtCFuIawDojdpX9 HPFsZNALgDwBD+BkoRkw9weQY8YYk0NLAQhwPGGTUD8F0AdAXlZtOFK5ZCA7Lf4pY8ZjizGSJXAE 9FIyI5L/QyAgMTIBHAAZAADAAxE50P1m9S1YcxpAZ29OYSXxF0H/OdEY4ofiLdF5gpjPZy9j8/8H EA9wOHMbAJlBAaAyESEx94Evf3BPhy8i84T8Q1iXL/+YP5lPml8WsZu/nM+d30+6v5/PoN+h76L/ PxwSAQCygAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwIGCMiEn+vAFAAAgwIGCMiEn+vAEL AAGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCF AAAAAAAAAwADgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeAASACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAAaA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAB4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAA AAAAAwAIgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAAmACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAKgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAA AB4AC4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTog AAAAAAMADTT9NwAAG4I= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.9C259C00-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 06:21:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:19:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.37F829A0" Subject: RE: Suzanne/Roughed Bevels? Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:41:21 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.64121.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.37F829A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could they have been glue chipped.. Seen stock bevels done like that. Leave me know. Gloria -----Original Message----- From: Jean [SMTP:jeanor_ak@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, December 01, 1997 4:35 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Suzanne/Roughed Bevels? Suzanne, what do you mean, "...they were already "roughed"..." Jean Anchorage, AK ---suzanne albright wrote: > > Now, where did I buy them?...hmmm. One clue - they were already > "roughed." Something I thought I was grateful for when I started. Now I'm > not so sure. > > Suzanne > in Beautiful Bucks County, Pa., north of Philly _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.37F829A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhoLAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQAcAAAAUkU6IFN1emFubmUvUm91Z2hlZCBC ZXZlbHM/AJIJAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcMAAEACAApABUAAQAoAQEggAMADgAAAM0HDAABAAgAKAAfAAEA MQEBCYABACEAAAA3N0Q0RjNEQTIyNkFEMTExODIxRjQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADZBgEDkAYAvAYAACEA AAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA4Arc qUX+vAEeAHAAAQAAABwAAABSRTogU3V6YW5uZS9Sb3VnaGVkIEJldmVscz8AAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAA Abz+RanS2vPUeWoiEdGCH0RFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAAAz aG91bmRzQHVzYW9yLm5ldAAAAAMABhDgX8oEAwAHEKoCAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABDT1VMRFRIRVlI QVZFQkVFTkdMVUVDSElQUEVEU0VFTlNUT0NLQkVWRUxTRE9ORUxJS0VUSEFUTEVBVkVNRUtOT1dH TE9SSUEtLS0tLU9SSUdJTkFMTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tRlJPAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAnwMAAJsDAACqBQAA TFpGdf9gA9R3AAoBAwH3IAKkA+MCAGOCaArAc2V0MCAHE4cCgwBQDvZwcnEyD/YmfQqACMggOwlv MjVmNQKACoF1YwBQCwNjAwBBC2BuZzEwMzMFC6YgCFFsZCB0aAhleSAPgHZlIGJpCeEgZwpBIA9w BSBwGQmALi4GUReBc3RvrGNrF1EXMGwEIGQCIGEXQCBsaWsXQBbAYcx0LgqiCoBMZRciB4CgIGtu b3catUcJAZ8HMBrEHM4LMBogMzYBQKcVEAFAEUBvdAWQdBCEUDE2IC0f4k8FEGcPC4AHQAXQB5Bz YWdlPx/jHMYe9B7BCxMe9mktGDE0NAFAGiAxODBHAUAM0CODYiBGA2E6NQyDYg/gShswA6BbU2BN VFA6aiWxBbBfAGFrQHlhaG9v8i4FoG1dHMUksAZgAjAFJRdNAiBkYXksIBpEBZBlBtAEkCAwMQEp UDE5OTcgNDqUMzUP8E0nl1RvJRdFF7BhBBBAYnUVcGlzJ0InmHViJlAfMCUXUrRFOi2xegBwGeAv CACsdWcW0BagQhljPyGPvyKaHkQLthzZLwUpUHcagXkZsSB5CGAbcQBwKVAi9RhwLhbDdwSQF0AH QAlwdGFkFvAiA2AvozWCIucaxCWiGsRBbg9wBbAhAakpUEFLHM8KH+FzLxRVNlFiIEFoBUA8OtF5 AkAIUG1DQVQuQ/hPTT40UB7yJRAa0zzgnT1mThvQNEI2ImRpFqCaSRdQdRbwFsFtPzWRrGhtQEAY gE8Z4WMXwv4tFrQ2Gz1mNuY3kAYAA3D/D8AYEBVwP0EWwC+SBUA/UF53LGAXoDkAHxBmFoAg/wIQ BcA+sQOgP1AY8ArAHxDPGGAaxD5hP0AnbT3XG8D9BUBzNMA60AlwGrU9yC8Fxz1mC4Av8WF1dAaQ RZF6QhSAawQgCFECMClBUBxhLilQJoEWwCBvZqNMoBgQbGx5OYpfTr8PT89Q31EzGsRETyBZBE9V UsBBSE9PIX0wZUcPwDTSBcADUAngIPMm6DZQZGQJcAQRNIEVA4NFkTuwdHA6Ly8AwH0DEC4m9x6T FoAzCyFIRusFsTrQYgT0aQIgF/EVYf8HkClQC1AbMA+wG3BXIRaw6yugLDQtCXBxClAY8Cye/yuQ GOAJ8BahNMAWwRoRGPDfKVBfg1t/LF84gnIYARcwfVXRdlchAaBf8FXvVvB39WSALiynL2DjV/8c 9xIBAgBnkAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcw4GfFi0X+vAFAAAgw4GfFi0X+vAEL AAGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCF AAAAAAAAAwADgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeAASACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAAaA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAB4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAA AAAAAwAIgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAAmACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAKgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAA AB4AC4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTog AAAAAAMADTT9NwAA6po= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.37F829A0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 06:21:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:19:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.99E34D20" Subject: RE: Black Lab Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:53:36 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.65336.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.99E34D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Last year I did a Black lab head study.. I used a actual choke chain for = the collar.. Now, I have a client who wants a Swiss Mountain Dog, just = did the pattern last week and hope to start it soon. For both patterns, = I used The Encyclopedia of the Dog, for the head and went to the color = copy center and enlarged it to a 8 1/2 inch size and from there was able = to make the cartoon.. The color enlargement enabled me to keep the right = design lines, and in the case of the Mountain Dog, the right area for = the coloring. I than place the head in a circular glass frame..=20 Hope this helps, Gloria -----Original Message----- From: The Banker's House [SMTP:bankers@ictc.com] Sent: Sunday, November 30, 1997 9:22 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Black Lab Just had a request for a small panel featuring a Black Lab... probably just a head shot. I am in the process of an online search for something that I can adapt, or make a line drawing of... I am not having much = luck. I have also done a pattern search at the Stained Glass Biz web-page... only one result... a hunting dog in a book called "Designs from Pubs & Taverns of England". Anyone familiar with it? I am wondering if someone has any advice or knows where to find a pattern... or a good image that I can adapt. Also has anyone ever = designed or constructed a panel with a black lab in it? Any help would be very = much appreciated! Dale Bentley $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The Banker's House Home of the Buffalo Gang "It is better to spend money like there is no tomorrow, Than to spend tonight like there is no money!" $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.99E34D20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgoLAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQAOAAAAUkU6IEJsYWNrIExhYgD9AwEFgAMA DgAAAM0HDAABAAgANQAkAAEAQwEBIIADAA4AAADNBwwAAQAIAC0AJwABAD4BAQmAAQAhAAAAN0NE NEYzREEyMjZBRDExMTgyMUY0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA5QYBA5AGAPAIAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMA AAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AMCmL2BH/rwBHgBwAAEAAAAO AAAAUkU6IEJsYWNrIExhYgAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8/kdgKNrz1H1qIhHRgh9ERVNUAAAAAB4A HgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAASAAAAM2hvdW5kc0B1c2Fvci5uZXQAAAADAAYQVsq2 vQMABxC/BQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASEksTEFTVFlFQVJJRElEQUJMQUNLTEFCSEVBRFNUVURZSVVT RURBQUNUVUFMQ0hPS0VDSEFJTkZPUlRIRUNPTExBUk5PVyxJSEFWRUFDTElFTlRXSE9XQU5UU0FT V0lTU01PVQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAN0FAADZBQAAYAkAAExaRnXMlVr/dwAKAQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgK wHNldDAgBxOHAoMAUA72cHJxMg/2Jn0KgAjIIDsJbzI1ZjUCgAqBdWMAUAsDYwMAQQtgbmcxMDMz YQumIEhpLAqiCoBMJGFzBUB5ZQrBSSCAZGlkIGEgQgtgiGNrIAtgYiBoF1CDF9AXEHVkeS4uF4G+ dQ+wF9IA0BkQB0AgD3DYb2tlGnELcSACEAXA3nQYsBpwBvALYHIZUQew2G93LBeBD4B2GsAX8Mxj bAiQAjAgdxqQHaCtAHB0BCAX8FMD800IYKMCMBsCRG9nHJBqGaD/BUAXshuCCrACQASSC2AXEb53 CeAYUABwF9AakHAawF50HdAXEArABUBpBUBz9m8CIBlgRgWxBuAbgCB2XnMckhmjDGADIFQbkUV4 bmN5HUAh8RewF/Bv/mYbcx9jJPEP4BtGGLMhoj8hUB2BIjEbhQWxBaBweb8acB1xBJAhkwnwG/Fn GcGHIsEiMRfwOCAxLxFw5wuAD3AY8Gl6HQEhsQNS/xtyCXAd4R4xAmAiEwDAGrH/G4MigSMCGWAl MikkKoUHgH8dgQnwLcIX0AeAIiIasGXmcBtzBRBnaB/hB5AyUP8g4QuAB5AckCGiGxEulA+w/yY2 HtwyCArAF1AbOgWwC4D+ZxliG4ADkQtRKdAniBsRsR0haXJjJQAKwWchAbsEIANQYQeAGVEWlEgh 82ZoBAAYoWxwJFAWlEd9N2JhFpQ9LwqTCzAdUDN+NgFAFRABQBFAI6AFkHShEIQxNiAtQKJPMkHL C4AaUU0HkHNhKtBAox89hj+0P4ELEz+2aS0xjDQ0AUAdUDE4MAFAVwzQREMYkEYDYToMg2KbD+Al MkIAcBqwcicEIAM7YBmhIFtTTVRQRDpiRrNzQGkaIGPyLgWgbV09hRiQBmACMMVF11Me8GRheRyQ HGAnHPAG0CoRMzAckDE5QDk3IDk6MhFwUDJNSQdUb0XXOiNAYo8e8EEgSLJJCHViaj/h/0XXGBQW 8AwwQl9DaT8EC7bzPZQBkSBKH8IPgBfSCXDecQpQFxEbQhfwcwDAG+D3IHEzMAMgZhdQGRA3ghfn v1CRGVAZYD+hR/ACYHkWlO8fsxfwGLQakHQcMReQOqD/M7Y/oSnQBBEmQQORAiAzEv8Y8BdRLBEb QiLwB4A7sRVw/xaUOAEFQBeQLtA5UUqQBTDfHJAFsS5DF/Bbw2Q6kAPw71bRJkBXsloDbiOgHMJW wt5tFIAjwApAGEAuU2kctv5sIvAXoAIgHQIghlwVXdG9G4JTHxIZwTzAOkJCLFD5IUFiLQqwKtBX sRaUW6H3KbBjwglwcyUAWcAZUVkh/x7xVsJjsFbgOUMG4BqgLsFzG+AZwSJEMrM6YizxUOtPQAQg JhaUVBzhJDEmMhclcDohIbAiYjVBbnn9Y8JmOqADEAcwBcAD8COx7SLAP2JLWiF3AiAEgVbC/waQ XLNjwg+AHjFuIF5RYVDrOIEFsWtg8HcEIB2wLUJ/IjFEECGxPRUghVeyVVNnfyMAKvEAwCrQN/Jd 6xwxQfdjcnHlY8JlbJEylQmAZ1XzKWIAgHRyFIAgsBfSVgT/bxNp8RgnGxFvYXdxcjE8Au9wgSUA F9BLMCBskSmwYaK/FpRegBFABZAHMHpxIT2KfkQHQEaBHXEt4FhlFpQk/4Hfgu+DqRaURl8PsIS1 O2BzMVEmRUJ1ASAHQB3QR/MVYYS1IkkioQQgSzAgov8iIyIAIbEEYDMwKbAdUC5k3y1RO9Fg8CIh BGByA2AcgP+EtwORiYciMAMAMmKKf4oT1CEihLU8R/4+hLWDr3+Sb4QPQggjUmhga9AFA2n/AiAa 0hVwM0ILUBdQNFEAwOsDESIwOjoULVTFTg5NAP9cAY0zG3MdUBcQHJCa45bft03PbeJcQWkc8B4x dpdRHy3DXdEVAyUBMnB0cDqoLy93n+AuThcvOiNXP1MnET2PChIBAKLwAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQ AAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMOCuZkNG/rwBQAAIMOCuZkNG/rwBCwABgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMAA4AIIAYAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAEgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4w AAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAGgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA DoUAAAAAAAADAAeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMACIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgAJgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4A CoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAAuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAChs ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.99E34D20-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 06:49:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:48:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Black Lab Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:50:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.45032.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just a suggestion for making the cartoons. Either my PhotoDelux or Corel = Printhouse has the capability of printing just the outline of scanned or = inported pics and this makes a nice start for making patterns. Linda Campbell ---------- From: Gloria & George[SMTP:3hounds@usaor.net] Sent: Monday, December 01, 1997 5:53 AM To: 'glass@bungi.com' Subject: RE: Black Lab ------ =3D_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.99E34D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Last year I did a Black lab head study.. I used a actual choke chain for = =3D the collar.. Now, I have a client who wants a Swiss Mountain Dog, just = =3D did the pattern last week and hope to start it soon. For both patterns, = =3D I used The Encyclopedia of the Dog, for the head and went to the color = =3D copy center and enlarged it to a 8 1/2 inch size and from there was able = =3D to make the cartoon.. The color enlargement enabled me to keep the right = =3D design lines, and in the case of the Mountain Dog, the right area for = =3D the coloring. I than place the head in a circular glass frame..=3D20 Hope this helps, Gloria -----Original Message----- From: The Banker's House [SMTP:bankers@ictc.com] Sent: Sunday, November 30, 1997 9:22 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Black Lab Just had a request for a small panel featuring a Black Lab... probably just a head shot. I am in the process of an online search for something that I can adapt, or make a line drawing of... I am not having much =3D luck. I have also done a pattern search at the Stained Glass Biz web-page... only one result... a hunting dog in a book called "Designs from Pubs & Taverns of England". Anyone familiar with it? I am wondering if someone has any advice or knows where to find a pattern... or a good image that I can adapt. Also has anyone ever =3D designed or constructed a panel with a black lab in it? Any help would be very = =3D much appreciated! Dale Bentley $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The Banker's House Home of the Buffalo Gang "It is better to spend money like there is no tomorrow, Than to spend tonight like there is no money!" $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =3D_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.99E34D20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgoLAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5Na= WNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAA= AAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpL= mNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAE= AAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1b= mdp 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---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 06:54:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:53:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: (suzanne albright) Black Lab Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:51:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.45132.0> References: <<199712010250.UAA22874@ns.ictc.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The Banker's House wrote: > > I was worried about that... I am hoping to avoid pure black glass, but you > are right, a collar or something would dress it up a lot. > Thanks! > > ---------- > > From: suzanne albright > > To: glass@bungi.com > > Subject: Re: Black Lab > > Date: Sunday, November 30, 1997 1:38 PM > > > > > > Yes, I have done a Black Lab panel. I took the image from "Doggone > > DeMello." > > > > If you use black glass it will look better if you dress it up with a > > colorful scarf and some color around it, otherwise it will look kind of > > like a black blob! > > > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass and if you do choose black glass, choose a texture. use ripple, granite, or that mossy-sheepy texture (i think wissmach makes). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 07:04:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:04:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: touch lamp Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 10:01:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.5156.0> References: <<1997Dec1.1150.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk i don't remember if i asked this to the group yet. i installed a touch lamp switch in my fish lamp about a half year ago. the first switch turn itself on and off, and sometimes even backward. i returned it. and got a second one. this one behaved for a while, but every so often it will turn it self on, usually one level, out of 3. and it still does this. i'm still trying to isolate why it's doing this, coming up with lots of ideas, but no way of solving it. some of the ideas are: radio waves from ham radios (i heard that could trigger it), voltage spikes or drops, but the other touch lamp is uneffected. humididty, temerature, barometric pressure, cloudiness, weater predictor - happens when wind is coming, but usually 2 days in advance. and it tends to turn on at around 4 am, and other times. currently i'm grasping at straws here. so does anyone ever hear of this? and know what's causing it? and how can i fix it, besides turning off the lamp sokets, or removing the unit. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 07:22:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:21:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Location for Sandi Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:16:18 -0500 Message-ID: <199712011515.KAA19109@dns.city-net.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I went to Youghigheny TrainStationThat over the weekend. That is a great deal!!! I will go back there every couple of months and stock up....Has anyone been on a factory tour? Dany ---------- From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: 'glass@bungi.com' Subject: RE: Location for Sandi Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 6:17 AM Dany and Sandi, I am from the Butler area of Western PA.. Have you tried Glass Classics on Babcock Blvd.. There is also Sewickley Stained Glass, they have great giftware type of stained glass, Molchany's is in Irwin.. He has published several lamp patterns. Lots of nice lamps on display.. And for the best deal, there is Youghigheny down in Connelsville, PA.., for hobby size sheets of Yough glass you pay $1.50, and for stipple glass you pay $3.00.. A hobby sheet is about 8 x 10.. They are even opened on Sunday. Hope this gives you more places to go.. I try every shop so maybe, 1 day I will try yours.. Gloria -----Original Message----- From: Daniela Birkelbach [SMTP:dany@city-net.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 5:36 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Location for Sandi Sandi, which stores do you frequent? I go to Signature Glass in Peters Township and Williams Stained Glass in Bethel. Are there any in your part of town? Dany ---------- > From: mindwarp > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Location > Date: Sunday, November 23, 1997 10:50 PM > > Daniela Birkelbach wrote: > > > > Hi everyone! > > > > I am a newbie as well (just about a year in Stained Glass) and live in > > Pittsburgh, PA. (Bethel Park). Born in Cologne, Germany. I put a couple > > of my projects onto my webpage below. Check it out!. > > http://www.city-net.com/~dany/pictures.html#sunflower > > > > I am enjoying this list very much! Thanks to everyone! > > > > Dany > > > > > I don't live too far from you Dany.... I live in Baldwin, 10 minutes > from Century III Mall. > > Sandi > ;-) > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---------- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 07:30:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:29:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!demodebi From: Debi Engle To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Black Lab Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:26:01 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.3261.0> References: <<1997Dec1.45032.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk HI, I use Print Artist, it has a "coloring book" capability that comes in handy for making patterns.....it's a "cheap" program that has ALOT of cool things.....Debi..btw..I'm a beginner that is trying to get back into my stained glass......love it...and love this group with all of your suggestions and ideas... Linda Campbell wrote: > Just a suggestion for making the cartoons. Either my PhotoDelux or Corel = > Printhouse has the capability of printing just the outline of scanned or = > inported pics and this makes a nice start for making patterns. > > Linda Campbell > > ---------- > From: Gloria & George[SMTP:3hounds@usaor.net] > Sent: Monday, December 01, 1997 5:53 AM > To: 'glass@bungi.com' > Subject: RE: Black Lab > > ------ =3D_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.99E34D20 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Hi, > Last year I did a Black lab head study.. I used a actual choke chain for = > =3D > the collar.. Now, I have a client who wants a Swiss Mountain Dog, just = > =3D > did the pattern last week and hope to start it soon. For both patterns, = > =3D > I used The Encyclopedia of the Dog, for the head and went to the color = > =3D > copy center and enlarged it to a 8 1/2 inch size and from there was able = > =3D > to make the cartoon.. The color enlargement enabled me to keep the right = > =3D > design lines, and in the case of the Mountain Dog, the right area for = > =3D > the coloring. I than place the head in a circular glass frame..=3D20 > Hope this helps, > Gloria > > -----Original Message----- > From: The Banker's House [SMTP:bankers@ictc.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 1997 9:22 PM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Black Lab > > Just had a request for a small panel featuring a Black Lab... probably > just a head shot. I am in the process of an online search for something > that I can adapt, or make a line drawing of... I am not having much =3D > luck. > I have also done a pattern search at the Stained Glass Biz web-page... > only one result... a hunting dog in a book called "Designs from Pubs & > Taverns of England". > Anyone familiar with it? > I am wondering if someone has any advice or knows where to find a > pattern... or a good image that I can adapt. Also has anyone ever =3D > designed > or constructed a panel with a black lab in it? Any help would be very = > =3D > much > appreciated! > > Dale Bentley > > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > The Banker's House > Home of the Buffalo Gang > "It is better to spend money like there is no tomorrow, > Than to spend tonight like there is no money!" > > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ------ =3D_NextPart_000_01BCFE3A.99E34D20 > Content-Type: application/ms-tnef > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > > eJ8+IgoLAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5Na= > WNy > b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAA= > AAL > AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpL= > mNv > bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAE= > AAA > 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glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 07:35:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:33:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Glasangels From: Glasangels@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: touch lamp Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:33:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec1.5336.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike: In a message dated 97-12-01 10:05:36 EST, you write: << don't remember if i asked this to the group yet. i installed a touch lamp switch in my fish lamp about a half year ago. the first switch turn itself on and off, and sometimes even backward. i returned it. and got a second one. this one behaved for a while, but every so often it will turn it self on, usually one level, out of 3. and it still does this. i'm still trying to isolate why it's doing this, coming up with lots of ideas, but no way of solving it. some of the ideas are: radio waves from ham radios (i heard that could trigger it), voltage spikes or drops, but the other touch lamp is uneffected. humididty, temerature, barometric pressure, cloudiness, weater predictor - happens when wind is coming, but usually 2 days in advance. and it tends to turn on at around 4 am, and other times. currently i'm grasping at straws here. so does anyone ever hear of this? and know what's causing it? and how can i fix it, besides turning off the lamp sokets, or removing the unit. ---Mike Savad -- >> Maybe its one of those Aliens you encountered!!!!! Maybe you should try one of those "clappers"!!!!! (Sage advice from Orlando, FL) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 07:58:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:56:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: touch lamp Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 10:53:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.55343.0> References: <<1997Dec1.5336.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glasangels@aol.com wrote: > > Mike: In a message dated 97-12-01 10:05:36 EST, you write: > > << don't remember if i asked this to the group yet. i installed a touch > lamp switch in my fish lamp about a half year ago. the first switch turn > itself on and off, and sometimes even backward. i returned it. > > and got a second one. this one behaved for a while, but every so often > it will turn it self on, usually one level, out of 3. and it still does > this. i'm still trying to isolate why it's doing this, coming up with > lots of ideas, but no way of solving it. > > some of the ideas are: radio waves from ham radios (i heard that could > trigger it), voltage spikes or drops, but the other touch lamp is > uneffected. humididty, temerature, barometric pressure, cloudiness, > weater predictor - happens when wind is coming, but usually 2 days in > advance. and it tends to turn on at around 4 am, and other times. > currently i'm grasping at straws here. > > so does anyone ever hear of this? and know what's causing it? and how > can i fix it, besides turning off the lamp sokets, or removing the unit. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- >> > Maybe its one of those Aliens you encountered!!!!! Maybe you should try one > of those "clappers"!!!!! > (Sage advice from Orlando, FL) > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's kind of funny, i even ruled in ghosts... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 09:42:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:35:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: black lab ...design thoughts Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:45:05 -0600 Message-ID: <199712011733.LAA03696@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dale, Buffalo N Dakota. Is that the town with the little kitty- corner gas station run by two women? Read the black lab thread....... lots of good workable advice. My design featured a black grebe......... basically the same deal though Since the glass was opaque I thought that the lead lines were not a factor as a design element. So then how to get this guy dimensional and avoid the previously mentioned " blob look". A couple of things that I did right off were to slightly exagerate the contours, and make sure that the form and proportions were accurate. That looked OK but it was still *flat* I then considered texture...the glass I had available was black *water glass* (you know, the stuff from that megacorp out on the west coast) this was good because it has different texture on both sides..... now I could use that fact to at least change the nature of the reflected light from the different pieces, and have some control over the realism. It was better but not there yet. I reviewed my thinking again and reconsidered the lead lines... since they would be hardly noticed in the finished work, I thought abuot how I could use this to my advantage. I put myself in a paint by numbers mode which helps me when working on animal designs. In that style each coded color area is defined by dark line, there is no gradiation and some highlites are brought out with very small high contrast areas. It wasn't critical where the lines were to go so I used the paint by numbers style and delineated highlites in a dark blue gray antique ( which almost has a mirror-like quality when in proximity to the black) in some key areas of the design to enhance depth and contour. These were very small slivers of glass but more then enough carry the load. In addition there was now some *activity* in the bird. The *kinetic* properties of SG panels are important to me and now the design had that going for it also. Well thats how I dealt with a similiar design challange................hope it helps Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 11:04:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:01:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: touch lamp Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:00:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec1.9019.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk for a touch lamp that comes on by itself you need to purchase a part and I'm not sure what it is called but you plug it into the outlet and then the lamp into that. Usually this happens when the electricity flickers. When I bought my touch lamp at Sears they GAVE me one to make the lamp work properly. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 12:54:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:46:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCFE70.92F42F80" Subject: RE: touch lamp Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:48:24 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.134824.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE70.92F42F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike,=20 Be careful.. A few years ago, I remember these touch lights made the = news because of fire hazards.. I had one years ago, and mine also had a = mine of its own.. That is why I remembered the fire hazard stories.. My 2 cents worth, Gloria -----Original Message----- From: M. Savad [SMTP:morn@nac.net] Sent: Monday, December 01, 1997 1:02 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: touch lamp i don't remember if i asked this to the group yet. i installed a touch lamp switch in my fish lamp about a half year ago. the first switch turn itself on and off, and sometimes even backward. i returned it.=20 and got a second one. this one behaved for a while, but every so often it will turn it self on, usually one level, out of 3. and it still does this. i'm still trying to isolate why it's doing this, coming up with lots of ideas, but no way of solving it.=20 some of the ideas are: radio waves from ham radios (i heard that could trigger it), voltage spikes or drops, but the other touch lamp is uneffected. humididty, temerature, barometric pressure, cloudiness, weater predictor - happens when wind is coming, but usually 2 days in advance. and it tends to turn on at around 4 am, and other times. currently i'm grasping at straws here. so does anyone ever hear of this? and know what's causing it? and how can i fix it, besides turning off the lamp sokets, or removing the unit. ---Mike Savad --=20 Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE70.92F42F80 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih8RAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp 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gf68AUAACDCgvYwEgf68AQsAAYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4A BIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsABoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAHgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADAAiACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4ACYAI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAAqACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgALgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAA AB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AACRcw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFE70.92F42F80-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 12:55:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:42:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Location for Sandi Date: Mon, 01 Dec 97 14:44:52 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec1.224452.0> References: <<199712011515.KAA19109@dns.city-net.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Has > anyone been on a factory tour? > > Dany Since this came up about the Youghiogheny tour, I'll go ahead and ask a = question that I have been trying to research...Where are the glass factor= ies that sell direct to consumers? Which factories offer tours? Althoug= h I have searched some "Source" lists, I don't know which ones will sell = to me since I am not a retailer. I have found the locations of Uroboros, Wissmach, Spectrum, Kokomo, Yock.= , Armstrong, Blenko, Bullseye, Chicago Art Glass, United Art Glass. What= other ones are out there in the U.S. that I haven't thought of? Now since I am in Missouri most of these are too far away for just a casu= al shopping trip, but I'm not above planning vacations that just happen = to include some glass stops on the way! So when you all want to stock = up on glass at a really good price, where do you go? (Let me say I defin= itely believe in supporting local retailers, but my local retailers are = at least 2 hours away, so why not add a few more hours to the drive and = come home with the mother load!) Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 13:15:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:13:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!jurab From: "PREFERRED CUSTOMER" To: Subject: Re: Taurus II Ring Saw ? Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:09:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.495.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Do you know the telephone number or address for the Gemini company in Florida? -----Original Message----- From: Di Baker To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, November 30, 1997 12:53 PM Subject: Re: Taurus II Ring Saw ? >Hi Lee.... > >Thanks for your note...I bought this saw after the great reviews & everyone >I know who does glass has one & loves it (((: I am thinking now it might be >out of alignment & I probably need to start over. > >Purrs, > >Di > > > >>Hi Di, >>I have used the Taurus II for over a year, had no problems with the >>blade or gromets. I think it may have gotten knocked out of alignment >>in shipping. Please contact Gemini (in Tampa, Fl) and ask to send it to >>them for replacement. >> >>Just a quick note this morning , I'm on my way out the door to my >>weekend show. >> >>Lee Boe >>Rain-Boe's Creations >>Sarasota, Florida >> >>Di Baker wrote: >>> >>> Hi Everyone! I hope everyone had a wonderful warm Thanksgiving (: >>> >>> I recently purchased the Taurus II and have already broken a blade ))): >>> What happened? I followed the manual directions, replaced the red grommets >>> early in the game since I was breaking in the saw. Cut out 1 suncatcher & 1 >>> small sheet of angel wings. Then a couple of days later I wanted to saw out >>> several more suncatchers. Fresh water & ice on left side since I needed to >>> do over 100 pieces. The blade was slipping early on into the 2nd session of >>> cutting & I got out the manual & replaced the yellow grommets. Everything >>> seemed to be going just fine. I was almost done & had been going very slow, >>> changing directions, checking water level & adding ice between sheets. I >>> had 1 more sheet of angel wings to saw when the blade snapped & struck me >>> in the face. Shook me for a second but no harm. Did I do something wrong? >>> >>> I tried to call Gemini this AM but they are off due to holidays. I have >>> left e-mail for them. >>> >>> I really love this saw! It cuts very nice & leaves a nice edge. >>> >>> Suggestions for future sessions? I am going to replace the blade & all of >>> the grommets before starting back up again. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Di >>> >>> ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* >>> _ |\_ >>> \` ..\ Di Baker >>> __,.-" =__Y= Kitties--Bogie Blue, Chanel Blue, Sarah, >>> jgs ." ) Tornado, Cagney >>> _ / , \/\_ Wanna see how cute we are? Visit us at: >>> ((____| )_-\ \_-` http://www.islandnet.com/~jbrooks/di1.htm >>> `-----'`-----` `--` >>> ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* >>> >>> ---- >>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* > _ |\_ > \` ..\ Di Baker > __,.-" =__Y= Kitties--Bogie Blue, Chanel Blue, Sarah, > jgs ." ) Tornado, Cagney > _ / , \/\_ Wanna see how cute we are? Visit us at: > ((____| )_-\ \_-` http://www.islandnet.com/~jbrooks/di1.htm > `-----'`-----` `--` >~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 13:20:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:20:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Susan's Condition? Date: Mon, 01 Dec 97 15:23:26 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec1.232326.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elisabeth, I started to post this to you off-line, but I know everyone else is conce= rned as well and would like an update. How is your friend Susan doing now? Any further progress with her case? = For those newbies out there that are wondering what this has to do with = stained glass, it has a lot to do with it. Susan's health was impaired = seriously because of substances she was exposed to at work. I know that = I certainly learned extremely valuable information from the group and Mon= ona while this thread regarding safety and health factors was going on. = I was absolutely amazed at the things I did not learn about safely worki= ng in glass while taking my short course. (But thanks to fellow Bungians= know now!) Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 13:22:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:22:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sympatico.ca!johanne.brunner From: Johanne Brunner To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: You "guys" have all done it for me! Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:19:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.81912.0> References: <<1997Nov28.17512.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LByrne21@aol.com wrote: > > Last week, I returned home from an open-heart, quadruple, by-pass and > pace-maker implant, experience. The body was beaten, pulmeted, bruised, > ripped, stitched, needled (giant size), pinched, squeezed, and, blood > pressured to death. (I don't think I should have put it just that way). The > mind was gone, the spirit was lost and interest in everything was something > of the past. > > Tonight, for the first time, I climbed Mt. Everest (to my bedroom on the > second floor) and, also where the computer is located. A disinterested flick > of the switch on the computer brought me to "bungi" e-mail.....and to "you > guys". Wow! what medication! I AM alive....there IS interest! There's > still a whole world outside of this physical body of mine (which has been > giving me so much trouble, and, had taken over my whole mind ).... > > I've been a lurker, practically since the beginning of "Bungi"...not adding > much, but certainly keeping tuned to all that goes on; and tonight, after > going thru my e-mail and catching up on things, you certainly have > preformed my private miracle. > > At this point you're probably thinking "this poor kid ought to get a > life...... for the "Bungies" to have had such a profound effect on her". > Well, this is the first activity I've been able to do for myself, without > having to have half the world wait upon my every need (except..... I DID > climb Mt. Everest tonight) > > So , Thank you, thank you, thank you all. I've had fun tonight. I'm looking > forward to coming back to the 'ole computer and "Bungi". Monday I've gotta' > go back to the hospital (I'm among the 3% of the population who has > Pace-Maker-Syndrome which means the body says, "give me another type of > pace-maker wire, 'cause I reject the one you've given me") I'm looking > forward to going, 'cause that's one of the reasons I've been feelin' so > physically bad and this can be easily fixed, with just a short stay > (hopefully, overnight).... > > And so, the moral of this whole story is not to underestimate, what fun, how > informative, what ideas, and how great, the stained-glass group is. Forever > grateful > Lavergne > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Dear Lavergne: I've just received my first email from the bungi group. Your note is very touching :-). I wish you well, and can tell from what I've read that this will not only be valuable to me as a new person to stained glass creating, but it will also have a real human/family atmosphere. I am from South Eastern Ontario just outside of Kingston. Good luck to you, and I look forward to exchanges mail with you in the future. Johanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 13:43:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:41:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: factory tours was Location for Sandi Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:36:07 -0500 Message-ID: <199712012134.QAA11618@dns.city-net.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I asked at Youghiogheny and they offer tours during the week where they make the glass as well as a glass blowing place. (Connelsville, PA) I am not sure whether Youghiogheny Train Station has different prices for their sheet glass depending on if you're a retailer or a hobbyist. Their prices are very good (1.50 per sheet of High Strike, 3.00 per sheet of Stipple, sheet = 8x10) right in their store which is open to anyone. I know from someone else that Wissmach has their factory in the northwest part of WV and they sell their rejected glass ( I guess it doesn't conform to the standards of traditional Wissmach glass). I'm sure it is just as good. I haven't gone down there myself, though. Dany ---------- > From: Dawn > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Location for Sandi > Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 5:44 PM > > > >Has > > anyone been on a factory tour? > > > > Dany > > Since this came up about the Youghiogheny tour, I'll go ahead and ask a = > question that I have been trying to research... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 13:54:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:53:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Location for Sandi Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 21:50:10 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.215010.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 14:44 01/12/97 PST, Dawn wrote: ..Where are the glass factor= >ies that sell direct to consumers? Which factories offer tours? Althoug= >h I have searched some "Source" lists, I don't know which ones will sell = >to me since I am not a retailer. > >I have found the locations of Uroboros, Wissmach, Spectrum, Kokomo, Yock.= >, Armstrong, Blenko, Bullseye, Chicago Art Glass, United Art Glass. What= > other ones are out there in the U.S. that I haven't thought of? > Have you tried emailing the companies you mentioned? I know many of them have websites, so imagine they will have a department able to answer your questions. >From here in England I have had good responses to technical questions about glass fusing from Spectrum and help locating glass reference nos from Uroboros - usually by return email. Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 13:57:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:56:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Help, Please!! Date: Mon, 01 Dec 97 15:59:40 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec1.235940.0> References: <<1997Nov25.14349.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Cathy, Since I'm not that experienced at stained glass yet, I'll leave the advic= e to the veterans. My personal feeling is that I am apprehensive about = creating a stained glass piece for family or friends that would be a perm= anent part of the architecture while I am at my current skill level. Whi= le you can always move a "learning-experience" panel to a less prominent = place in the house as your work get better, once you install the window = in the door it's there for you to look at every time you turn around, mis= takes and all. I have a 4 sq. ft. panel I did for my brother last Xmas, = and I still can't bring myself to give it to him because now that I look = at it I see how my soldering has improved, so it's still down in my basem= ent. Where in Missouri are you? The only others from Missouri that I can thin= k of are Mike Peck and Don Devoto. If there's more out there, speak out.= I'm from the Lake of the Ozarks area. Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 14:27:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:26:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Fireplace screen to view!!! Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:26:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712012226.RAA14005@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry it took me so long to get this screen on our site. http://www.waterw.com/~artglass It is under our new commissions link. I will try to get the others added asap for those who were asking to view them If I can answer any questions.........fire away. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 14:31:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:31:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: touch lamp Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 17:28:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.122843.0> References: <<1997Dec1.134824.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Gloria & George wrote: > > Mike, > Be careful.. A few years ago, I remember these touch lights made the news because of fire hazards.. I had one years ago, and mine also had a mine of its own.. That is why I remembered the fire hazard stories.. > My 2 cents worth, > Gloria > > -----Original Message----- > From: M. Savad [SMTP:morn@nac.net] > Sent: Monday, December 01, 1997 1:02 PM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: touch lamp > > i don't remember if i asked this to the group yet. i installed a touch > lamp switch in my fish lamp about a half year ago. the first switch turn > itself on and off, and sometimes even backward. i returned it. > > and got a second one. this one behaved for a while, but every so often > it will turn it self on, usually one level, out of 3. and it still does > this. i'm still trying to isolate why it's doing this, coming up with > lots of ideas, but no way of solving it. > > some of the ideas are: radio waves from ham radios (i heard that could > trigger it), voltage spikes or drops, but the other touch lamp is > uneffected. humididty, temerature, barometric pressure, cloudiness, > weater predictor - happens when wind is coming, but usually 2 days in > advance. and it tends to turn on at around 4 am, and other times. > currently i'm grasping at straws here. > > so does anyone ever hear of this? and know what's causing it? and how > can i fix it, besides turning off the lamp sokets, or removing the unit. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A > Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 that's what i'm afraid of. if someone buys the lamp, or does'nt, the lamp could pose a threat. we have another touch lamp that is much more stable. it only turns on after a brown out. i could live with that. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 14:33:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:32:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Location for Sandi Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:31:58 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk >Has > anyone been on a factory tour? > > Dany Where are the glass factories that sell direct to consumers? Which factories offer tours? Dawn I just returned (to Chicago) from a trip "home" (Seattle) and while I was there I arranged to visit the Spectrum Glass factory in Woodinville. The folks were very nice and the tour was fascinating and informative. I bought a poster, but they don't sell glass (just as well--saved me from going nuts and then trying to schlep it on the plane). Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 14:34:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:32:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Location for Sandi Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:32:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec1.123228.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Kokomo Glass (advertised as the OP Shop) sells to the public. Most of their glass is in barrels so take your gloves; however, they do have sq. ft. and full sheets in bins. They are located in Kokomo, Indiana. It's either Thursday or Wednesday they give tours and visitors can actually watch them make the glass. LElsbury@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 14:35:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:35:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ideal.jf.intel.com!lynice From: "L. Spangler" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: touch lamp Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:31:09 -0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.14319.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk We observed the same phenomenon in one of two of ours. We would come home to an empty house, and the light would be on (sometimes on the lowest setting, sometimes higher). Then one weekend when we were home, I was in the room where mystery lamp was and the telephone rang, and poof!, the light came one. Then the phone rang a second time, and poof! the light turned up a notch. I let it cycle through - setting1, setting2, setting3, off, setting1, ... So there must have been some electrical relationship between the phone outlet (which transmits electricity to activate the ringer) and the outlet the lamp was plugged into. So we just took the touch sensor thing out of the bottom of the lamp. L. Spangler ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 15:04:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:03:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Location for Sandi Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 17:05:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.11544.0> References: <<1997Dec1.224452.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Summit Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Dawn wrote: > > Now since I am in Missouri most of these are too far away for just a casu= > al shopping trip, but I'm not above planning vacations that just happen = > to include some glass stops on the way! Since your in Missouri, you might want to check out Kokomo, Indiana. I know it's a 10 hour drive from Kansas City straight across I-70. Other than that, I think you'll have to go to one of the coasts. Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 15:51:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:50:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, Walter) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Taurus II Ring Saw ? Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:49:13 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.104913.0> References: <<1997Dec1.495.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Glass Safari Precedence: bulk We had one blade to break for no reason...called . and they replaced the blade in 4 days....They have been great to work with.... Thanks Walter PREFERRED CUSTOMER wrote: > Hi, Do you know the telephone number or address for the Gemini company in > Florida? > -----Original Message----- > From: Di Baker > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Sunday, November 30, 1997 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: Taurus II Ring Saw ? > > >Hi Lee.... > > > >Thanks for your note...I bought this saw after the great reviews & everyone > >I know who does glass has one & loves it (((: I am thinking now it might be > >out of alignment & I probably need to start over. > > > >Purrs, > > > >Di > > > > > > > >>Hi Di, > >>I have used the Taurus II for over a year, had no problems with the > >>blade or gromets. I think it may have gotten knocked out of alignment > >>in shipping. Please contact Gemini (in Tampa, Fl) and ask to send it to > >>them for replacement. > >> > >>Just a quick note this morning , I'm on my way out the door to my > >>weekend show. > >> > >>Lee Boe > >>Rain-Boe's Creations > >>Sarasota, Florida > >> > >>Di Baker wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Everyone! I hope everyone had a wonderful warm Thanksgiving (: > >>> > >>> I recently purchased the Taurus II and have already broken a blade ))): > >>> What happened? I followed the manual directions, replaced the red > grommets > >>> early in the game since I was breaking in the saw. Cut out 1 suncatcher > & 1 > >>> small sheet of angel wings. Then a couple of days later I wanted to saw > out > >>> several more suncatchers. Fresh water & ice on left side since I needed > to > >>> do over 100 pieces. The blade was slipping early on into the 2nd session > of > >>> cutting & I got out the manual & replaced the yellow grommets. > Everything > >>> seemed to be going just fine. I was almost done & had been going very > slow, > >>> changing directions, checking water level & adding ice between sheets. I > >>> had 1 more sheet of angel wings to saw when the blade snapped & struck > me > >>> in the face. Shook me for a second but no harm. Did I do something > wrong? > >>> > >>> I tried to call Gemini this AM but they are off due to holidays. I have > >>> left e-mail for them. > >>> > >>> I really love this saw! It cuts very nice & leaves a nice edge. > >>> > >>> Suggestions for future sessions? I am going to replace the blade & all > of > >>> the grommets before starting back up again. > >>> > >>> Thanks! > >>> > >>> Di > >>> > >>> ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* > >>> _ |\_ > >>> \` ..\ Di Baker > >>> __,.-" =__Y= Kitties--Bogie Blue, Chanel Blue, Sarah, > >>> jgs ." ) Tornado, Cagney > >>> _ / , \/\_ Wanna see how cute we are? Visit us at: > >>> ((____| )_-\ \_-` http://www.islandnet.com/~jbrooks/di1.htm > >>> `-----'`-----` `--` > >>> ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* > >>> > >>> ---- > >>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >>> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >>---- > >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > >~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* > > _ |\_ > > \` ..\ Di Baker > > __,.-" =__Y= Kitties--Bogie Blue, Chanel Blue, Sarah, > > jgs ." ) Tornado, Cagney > > _ / , \/\_ Wanna see how cute we are? Visit us at: > > ((____| )_-\ \_-` http://www.islandnet.com/~jbrooks/di1.htm > > `-----'`-----` `--` > >~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* > > > > > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 16:01:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:58:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: black lab ...design thoughts Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:57:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.135742.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Len- You might not be able to do as much glass work anymore, but have you given any thought to teaching? Your black lab suggestions were right on the mark from any artists' point of view. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios 603 W. Colorado Ave. Colorado Springs, CO 80905 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 16:07:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:04:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: touch lamp Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:01:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.1414.0> References: <<1997Dec1.14319.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk L. Spangler wrote: > > We observed the same phenomenon in one of two of ours. We would come home > to an empty house, and the light would be on (sometimes on the lowest > setting, sometimes higher). Then one weekend when we were home, I was in > the room where mystery lamp was and the telephone rang, and poof!, the > light came one. Then the phone rang a second time, and poof! the light > turned up a notch. I let it cycle through - setting1, setting2, setting3, > off, setting1, ... So there must have been some electrical relationship > between the phone outlet (which transmits electricity to activate the > ringer) and the outlet the lamp was plugged into. So we just took the > touch sensor thing out of the bottom of the lamp. > > L. Spangler > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass hmmm... that's intresting. the phone you have, is it a cordless, the indoor type, not celluar (sp?). one test i may try is to seperate the shade from the base with a rubber gromet. a theory is, is that the whole thing is acting like an arial antenna due to all of the solder. i want to fix the problem in this lamp first. because my new lamp really won't have a place for a switch. though when i do get a new switch, it would be by a different company (i froget who makes this one). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 16:10:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:09:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Gloyn From: Gloyn@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Fwd: location & intro Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:41:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec1.13411.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --------------------- Forwarded message: From: kittyr@pinn.net (Kitty Randall) Reply-to: glass@bungi.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: 97-11-30 18:51:22 EST Well, since I didn't see a post from anyone around here I thought I'd post my location and introduce myself as well. I'm in Hampton, VA (between VA Beach & Williamsburg). I've been doing stained glass for about two years now and have recently gotten into applications with vitreous stains and enamels. I really enjoy this list! ttfn -Kitty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 16:16:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:15:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: touch lamp Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:16:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199712011841.MAA02107@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > i want to fix the problem in this lamp first. because my new lamp really > won't have a place for a switch. though when i do get a new switch, it > would be by a different company (i froget who makes this one). > > Mike, Have you thought about using one of the switches that are on the cord instead of the body of the lamp. They are thumbwheels and are usually located about 6-8 inches from the socket connections. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 16:25:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:24:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Windsor Castle Restoration Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:22:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199712020024.AAA08944@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Hilary, ....'fraid I could not resist a riposte here.... I think the Windsors are most certainly in the "entertainment business"..... ;-) Joking apart, don't forget that Edward Windsor has harboured ambitions for a long time to be involved in film/theatre etc. He worked for Andrew-Lloyd Webber in the "The Very Useful Theatre Company" (or such -like name...) I wasn't joking, but as the credits rolled up at the end of the programme,there was definitely the credit "Written and Produced by Edward Windsor" and then followed a name which I took to be the name of his own production company. He has also written and produced another tv programme about the Duke of Windsor and Wallace Simpson, in which he also appeared briefly. So my comment was based on reality, even if it was a bit tongue in cheek.... Have a go! and let me know if you receive a polite reply on crested paper!!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK I'll try writing them, however, applying directly to the Windsors seems like the long way round. They are not in the entertainment business...well, not directly anyway. But even if it is misdirected, what a gas to write to them!!! It would seem to me that since The Learning Channel was responsible for presenting the program here, they are the ones that have a vested interest in presenting more shows that appeal to their viewers. They also have the wherewhithal to get to producers/production companies/etc. that would create such a series on the craftspeople of the restoration. Those producers would in turn contact Queen and Sons for names and particulars. If anyone else would like to see such a series, you can get to the e-mail by going to http://www.discovery.com which is the home page. Troll around to the Learning Channel page from there and find their e-mail address. I was too short sighted to make a note of the address. sigh. What a job to work on. double sigh. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 16:45:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:44:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: Suzanne/Roughed Bevels? Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 19:47:27 -0000 Message-ID: <199712020044.TAA01827@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jean, They look as if someone ran them over a grinder very fast. Not really ground, but not smooth and shiny either! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 16:46:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:45:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: touch lamp Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:42:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.144254.0> References: <<199712011841.MAA02107@eve.corp.ccti.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Don McDonald wrote: > > > i want to fix the problem in this lamp first. because my new lamp really > > won't have a place for a switch. though when i do get a new switch, it > > would be by a different company (i froget who makes this one). > > > > > Mike, > Have you thought about using one of the switches that are on the cord > instead of the body of the lamp. They are thumbwheels and are > usually located about 6-8 inches from the socket connections. > > Don M. McDonald > Web Design > Corporate Communications Technology > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass everyone in my family wants me to put one in. but i think that violates the cord. for now i may just turn off the sockets. the new lamp, will replace another touch lamp, and were used to touching it. i might steel the switch from that lamp, but i don't want to kill off a perfectly good lamp. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 16:49:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:48:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: Suzanne/Roughed Bevels? Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 19:51:18 -0000 Message-ID: <199712020048.TAA02012@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Gloria wrote: >Could they have been glue chipped.. Seen stock bevels done like that. >Leave me know.> Suzanne answers: Maybe, Gloria. I don't know. I've only seen these sold in one place (Warner-Crivellaro). Nobody said anything about "glue chipped." They called them "roughed." ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 17:03:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:03:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: earthlink.net!jeksac From: John Keller To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Black Lab Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:07:14 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.13714.0> References: <<199711302324.RAA22023@ns.ictc.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Admin Kit Investigator Precedence: bulk Dale, for images to adapt i'd check out some of the wildlife art catalogs - wild wings, etc., also the orvis and eddie bauer catalogs and the pet products catalogs like d.c.steele, etc. the art catalogs will offer other's takes on the subject, while the other catalogs groups will give lots of views, head/body shots/drawings, etc. also you'll likely find ornaments of labs which may give you the lines you want. L. The Banker's House wrote: > > Just had a request for a small panel featuring a Black Lab... probably > just a head shot. I am in the process of an online search for something > that I can adapt, or make a line drawing of... I am not having much luck. > I have also done a pattern search at the Stained Glass Biz web-page... > only one result... a hunting dog in a book called "Designs from Pubs & > Taverns of England". > Anyone familiar with it? > I am wondering if someone has any advice or knows where to find a > pattern... or a good image that I can adapt. Also has anyone ever designed > or constructed a panel with a black lab in it? Any help would be very much > appreciated! > > Dale Bentley > > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > The Banker's House > Home of the Buffalo Gang > "It is better to spend money like there is no tomorrow, > Than to spend tonight like there is no money!" > > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 17:17:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:12:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ideal.jf.intel.com!lynice From: "L. Spangler" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: touch lamp Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:08:56 -0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.17856.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Tuesday, December 02, 1997 12:01 AM, M. Savad [SMTP:morn@nac.net] wrote: > > hmmm... that's intresting. the phone you have, is it a cordless, the > indoor type, not celluar (sp?). one test i may try is to seperate the > shade from the base with a rubber gromet. a theory is, is that the whole > thing is acting like an arial antenna due to all of the solder. > > The phone in that room was a cordless, non-cellular. L. Spangler ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 17:35:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:27:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nobleco.net!glass From: "Wallace, Paul" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: touch lamp Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:26:22 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.122622.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk touch lamp that comes on by itself you need to purchase a part and I'm >not sure what it is called but you plug it into the outlet and then the lamp Touch lamps by thier very nature are highly sensitive to radio emmissions. If you have a ham or CB'er around the corner this can cause then to light when they transmit even a lightning strike or a neighbor with a garage door opener can cause this to happen. A good RF filter plugged into the wall between the lamp & the outlet will possibly do the trick. Good luck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 18:09:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:07:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aristotle.net!rwsmith From: Rebecca Smith To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: No mail Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:29:22 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971128222922.0068c820@aristotle.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Is anyone getting mail from this list? I have not received any in several days. Beckie rwsmith@aristotle.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 18:12:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:11:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: touch lamp Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:04:57 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec2.2457.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Aliens Mike.....definitely aliens.... maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 18:15:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:14:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: abelink.com!rbaker From: Di Baker To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Taurus II blade & touch lamps Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:14:24 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All of you Wonderful Glass Artists! I received an e-mail from Gemini this AM and they will replace my broken blade at no cost. They tend to agree with everyone who responded that it was probably just a bumpier delivery via UPS than normal. So I will start over once my replacement blade arrives & make some wonderful goodies for everyone. Thanks for your reassurances & kind responses. Having 5 cats in my home I have enjoyed the thread on the touch lamps. I have 2 cats who have figured out how to turn them on & off...at 3AM! So they were removed from our home. Now I have also moved the alarm clock because my Oriental Shorthair has figured out how to turn on the radio . Have you tried to use the electric eye replacement socket that will turn it on at dusk? Or a timer? Purrs, Di ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* _ |\_ \` ..\ Di Baker __,.-" =__Y= Kitties--Bogie Blue, Chanel Blue, Sarah, jgs ." ) Tornado, Cagney _ / , \/\_ Wanna see how cute we are? Visit us at: ((____| )_-\ \_-` http://www.islandnet.com/~jbrooks/di1.htm `-----'`-----` `--` ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 18:31:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:30:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Susan's Condition? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:29:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199712020230.CAA26510@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Dawn (and all you crazy caring bunch!) It's one o'clock in the morning here in UK, I have just dragged myself home from a rather intense teaching session (the penultimate before the Christmas break); the first snow of the year is falling thick and fast; I need 3 new tyres for my car and was driving home rather nervously..... I also caught 4 of my students walking away from their lead cames, getting coffee and biscuits WITHOUT washing their hands first. I felt guilty about reading them the riot act.... I come back and find your e-mail asking about Susan.... I feel less guilty about coming down like a tonne of bricks on my students........ I had ear-marked January as the next progress report. This is the state of affairs at the moment; For the last 4 months Susan has become involved in a form of yoga that concentrates on techniques of breathing. She is - on that level - improving by leaps and bounds. On the legal level: Almost a year ago the Government Health Agency blithely pronounced that THEY could find no evidence of "Occupational Asthma", so tough cheese and all that..... I formulated a legal appeal which was accepted for hearing on her behalf. The Appeal was presented to the UK Independent Industrial Tribunal (which is above the Government). The Appeal Hearing was held 2 months ago. There were 2 medical professors, a senior lawyer, a Legal Chairman and another Court Official on the panel, plus other "interested Observers". On the other side of the table was Susan, myself and the Teachers' Union Solicitor ( middle-ranking attorney - I think - by your standards). After an entire day of nothing to eat OR drink and intense grilling, we were finally told by this Independent Tribunal that YES! Susan was in deed suffering from "Occupational Athma" YES! The School in question was the cause of it YES! she was entitled to financial compensation. The Government is now obliged to give her financial compensation for her curtailed career. However, Government has no money, so the compensation will be somewhat meagre. Next Phase: suing the School itself. The writ was served a few days after the Tribunal Hearing and by UK law, they were given 30 days to present a written defense. There is now a purely "legal technicality" which is weakening her case and that is, that her legal claim was formally presented about 120 days too late . In UK it is called "Limitation". The defense statement that reached us in written form a few days ago is one that we can "drive through with a horse and cart", BUT for this "technicality". The Medical "Gods" say that the School is guilty as hell, The Government Inspection Report on the state of the School condemns the Health and Safety Aspect in writing; the Independent Tribunal states that THIS School has caused Susan to be permanently disabled from ever teaching again; the School will hide behind a pure legal technicality of TIMING for presenting the claim....... You need to be a lawyer in order to be able to instruct a lawyer what course of action to take. That's pretty tough, if you in actuality are not...... We are now trying to work on the aspect of TIMING; the Teachers' Union has hired a barrister (the legal "glamour-puss" who is allowed to speak in Court dressed in wigs and robes) who specializes in the Law of Timing, to try and resolve this question. That is where we are at now. Thanks to ALL the encouragement and tremendeous factual pointers, info and help from people out there in Bungi, a complete MORAL and FACTUAL victory has been won. I would dearly like to translate that into more practical/financial sustinence for Susan. "The Law is An Ass" in many instances. Whether Human Justice will prevail in the end, we shall see. I now feel less bad about forcing my students to wash their hands ............ (darned Mother Hen I am....) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Elisabeth, I started to post this to you off-line, but I know everyone else is conce= rned as well and would like an update. How is your friend Susan doing now? Any further progress with her case? = For those newbies out there that are wondering what this has to do with = stained glass, it has a lot to do with it. Susan's health was impaired = seriously because of substances she was exposed to at work. I know that = I certainly learned extremely valuable information from the group and Mon= ona while this thread regarding safety and health factors was going on. = I was absolutely amazed at the things I did not learn about safely worki= ng in glass while taking my short course. (But thanks to fellow Bungians= know now!) Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 18:35:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:35:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aristotle.net!rwsmith From: Rebecca Smith To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Testing Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 10:25:55 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971128162555.0068857c@aristotle.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have not received any mail from the glass list in several days. Is everything okay and everybody just busy with the holiday? Beckie rwsmith@aristotle.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 20:16:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:14:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: "Shirley Balloch" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Black Lab Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:13:39 -0800 Message-ID: <04161446731783@netbridge.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: John Keller > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Black Lab Well I am late to this subject, but have you seen Randy De Melo's black lab in the Dog'Gone pattern book? Very simply. I used a wavy solid black spectrum i suppose for the ear. Black for the rest and Bulleye's black for the nose. The texture is perfect for that. Good Luck Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 20:48:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:48:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: unforgettable.com!shorelineglassworks From: NCScouter To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Taurus II Ring Saw ? Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 00:49:17 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec1.164917.0> References: <<1997Dec1.495.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.; Roanoke Island, NC, USA Precedence: bulk PREFERRED CUSTOMER wrote: > > Hi, Do you know the telephone number or address for the Gemini company in > Florida? > -----Original Message----- > From: Di Baker > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Sunday, November 30, 1997 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: Taurus II Ring Saw ? > > ---- The information that you are seeking is as follows: Gemini Saw Company 25916 Senator Avenue Harbor City CA 90710 310/891-0288 voice 301/891-0265 fax Jesse G. Cogswell, President Note, it's located in California and NOT Florida. Ciao for now! V T Phelps Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. [Gone fishin!] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 21:09:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:08:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!JAnder9073 From: JAnder9073@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Location Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:05:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec1.18526.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have just finished stained glass classes and am hooked. Is there anyone close to Sioux City, Iowa? There are no stained glass shops in Sioux City, so I am very grateful for all of you that contribute to bungi. I am taking notes and learning. I went to Oklahoma CIty over the holidays and visited a shop that had several pieces gold electro coated. I would like to know more about this. Any information? Janet Jander9073@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 22:37:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:37:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Location Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:32:59, -0500 Message-ID: <199712020632.BAA16184@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Janet wrote, in part: I went to Oklahoma CIty over the holidays and visited a shop that had several pieces gold electro coated. I would like to know more about this. Any information? Bob writes, Stained glass works can be electroplated. Brass, nickel, chrome and copper plating are readily available in shops that electroplate for cars . Many have plating tanks that can do a car bumper and so SG panels of rather good size can be plated. Gold plating in smaller sizes (suncatcher ) may be available from jewelers. Irridized glass may plate over but this can be cut away with a heavy matt knife, otherwise plating follows the came or solder with the greatest of percussion. Due to this it is a good idea to make sure that solder joints, etc. are well done as a poorly made joint is likely to standout like a sore thumb. One other value to plating is to cover the lead when the SG will come in contact with hands. Bob PS: Elizabeth in GB: Never feel bad about protecting the health of your students. You know that you are doing right and to do otherwise would be a sin of great magnitude. Sometimes it is necessary to be firm. A gentle reminder of the hazards of lead and food is a disservice when the consequences are thought about. Lecture over.(G) ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 1 23:14:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:14:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!bbn239 From: bbn239 To: Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:14:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu> Wednesday, December 3rd, 1997 Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Authenticated sender is Subject: Tuesday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!!! It's quick and effective!! Mass email and targeted email marketing works! 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Our Easy Email Business Package includes: 1) 20 or 30 MILLION email addresses 2)Special Mass Email Software that allows you to send upwards of 20 to 100 thousand ads per hour(depending upon ad length, system, traffic etc.) 3) Instruction Guide 4) How to Automate your mailings 5) How to write an effective email-ad...with samples 6) A list of "Friendly" internet service providers that allow you to send mass-email on their systems 7) How to avoid Flames 8) Pages of "HOT" products to sell now...if you do not already have one :) 9) How To Guide... Operate Your Own On-Line Business Part-Time 10) The 10 Secrets Bulk-Emailers do not want you to know 11) Many other valuable tips and tools We cannot promise you success, but we know because WE DO IT, that if you EMAIL consistently, the process works. It' as simple as that... and it pays for itself with just a few orders. Also, If you need targeted email lists call us for information about our NEW Bull's Eye Gold software!! Bull's Eye Gold allows you to AUTOMATICALLY collect targeted email lists using ANY search criteria! CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION!!! (213) 980-7850 CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION!!! (213) 980-7850 -------------------ORDERING INFORMATION------------------- Customer Name... Address City State Zip Phone Fax Email Address Please Check Below: _________ EASY EMAIL BUSINESS PACKAGE for just $259.00 Includes 20 million email addresses on CD, FREE bulk email software, instructions and technical support _________ MEGA-EASY EMAIL PACKAGE for just $359.00 Includes 30 Million email addresses on CD, FREE bulk email software, instructions and technical support _________ Bull's Eye Gold Software for just $259.00 Includes automated email target marketing software on CD or disks, instructions and technical support _________ Shipping & Handling (2-3 Day FedEx) $10.00 (FedEx Overnite) $20.00 __________ TOTAL (CA Residents add applicable sales tax) ******** CREDIT CARDS ACCEPTED ******** MASTERCARD - VISA - AMEX PLEASE CALL 213-980-7850 to process your order 8:00 am - 5:00 p.m. Pacific Time Ckecks or Money Orders send to: WorldTouch Network, Inc. 5670 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 2170 Los Angeles, CA 90036 If you have questions...please call Customer Service at (213)980-7850. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 02:21:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:20:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike From: Mike Simpson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Windsor Castle Restoration Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:16:03 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <199712021016.KAA00463@jackel.demon.co.uk> References: <<199711301705.RAA15989@pluto.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Whew!!! In this day of information technology it is nearly impossible to find information about anything without a major saga, but after trying everything from the WWW through libraries and video rental shops I have run this to earth. The program was called: Network First - Windsor Restored. it was produced by Meridian Productions, phone +44 (0) 1703 222555 and is not presently available on video but is expected to be released in about 2 weeks. I have not been able to find if it is planned to release it in an NTSC format for US TV so if you want it it may be worth contacting Meridian and putting on some pressure. The address is: Meridian Broadcasting Television Center Northam Rd. Northam Southampton Hampshire SO14 0NZ. Mike Simpson. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 05:27:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 05:26:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: factory tours was Location for Sandi Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 08:26:30 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971202082628.006aa2d8@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I know from someone else that Wissmach has their factory in the northwest >part of WV and they sell their rejected glass ( I guess it doesn't >conform to the standards of traditional Wissmach glass). I'm sure it is >just as good. I haven't gone down there myself, though. I have been to both Wissmach and Youghigheny, and what has been posted so far is correct. The prices are the same for both retailer and hobbyist and are quite good prices. The Wissmach glass is indeed seconds..wavy in places, ends of sheets...too many bubbles or iridized surfaces that have air brush markings. Some of it is usable and some of it isn't. The tours are not big huge tours but more of observing while the glass is being made. Both factories are quite small considering their output. And of course near the furnaces it is very hot (I visited in the summer, duh....) but I did learn how the stippling was done and had a new respect for glass after seeing it made in the same way it has been made for hundreds of years. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran Ohio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 05:56:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 05:56:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: black lab ...design thoughts Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:05:43 -0600 Message-ID: <199712021354.HAA17229@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Michael J. Greer To: INTERNET:glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 6:21 PM Subject: black lab ...design thoughts >Hi Len- > >You might not be able to do as much >glass work anymore, but have you >given any thought to teaching? I thought thats what I was doing :-) There are lots of posts about where to find a design but very few about how make a design. I'm just trying to stimulate that aspect by offering some insight into the creative process. It might be boring or obvious to most but hopefully some listees will find it interesting. I would like to see posts from time to time about how other folks work out designs. How about it .... Mike Savad ? I know you thrive on it :-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 06:27:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:27:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: Help, Please!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:36:47 -0600 Message-ID: <199712021424.IAA18929@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -> > My personal feeling is that I am apprehensive about = >creating a stained glass piece for family or friends that would be a perm= >anent part of the architecture while I am at my current skill level. Whi= >le you can always move a "learning-experience" panel to a less prominent = >place in the house as your work get better, once you install the window = >in the door it's there for you to look at every time you turn around, mis= >takes and all. Some of the first panels I did I gave as presents to relatives. One early piece in particular (a door lite) stares at me whenever I visit my mother-in-law. To me its crude and poorly designed. I hate it ,she loves it. I offer to replace it every time I visit but she'll have none of that. She knows that it was one of my first efforts and thats exactly why she cherishes it. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 06:37:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:36:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: RJF2.RJF.COM!BETTY_HALL From: BETTY_HALL@RJF2.RJF.COM (BETTY HALL) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Location for Sandi Date: 02 Dec 97 09:36:27 EST Message-ID: <061C8434015D3179@-SMF-> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk How about any locations in Florida? I know there is someplace over by Cocoa Beach, but where is it and do they sell to the public? Betty, Internal Audit, Ext. 4160 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 06:42:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:41:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sgi.net!mindwarp From: mindwarp To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Taurus II Ring Saw ? Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:40:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.44059.0> References: <<1997Dec1.495.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk PREFERRED CUSTOMER wrote: > > Hi, Do you know the telephone number or address for the Gemini company in > Florida? I don't have the # for Florida but you might want to call the California # and I'm sure they could tell you. GEMINI SAW COMPANY, INC. 25916 SENATOR AVENUE HARBOR CITY CA 90710 E-MAIL Riffy@GTE.NET PHONE: 310 891-0288 FAX: 310 891-0265 Sandi ;-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 06:47:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:46:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: touch lamp Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:44:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.4447.0> References: <<1997Dec1.17856.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk L. Spangler wrote: > > On Tuesday, December 02, 1997 12:01 AM, M. Savad [SMTP:morn@nac.net] wrote: > > > > hmmm... that's intresting. the phone you have, is it a cordless, the > > indoor type, not celluar (sp?). one test i may try is to seperate the > > shade from the base with a rubber gromet. a theory is, is that the whole > > thing is acting like an arial antenna due to all of the solder. > > > > > > The phone in that room was a cordless, non-cellular. > > L. Spangler > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass so far the only phone in the house that's cordless is my brothers, which is no where near the lamp. and it also turns on when the phone is'nt ringing. however there must be a radio wave inside the house when it rings. in our cordless, the base rings, then the phone rings. i wonder if the phone goes through random check cycles, and in that frequency, the lamp turns on. well, it's another thing to look into, better a better theory then my ghost, or barometric pressure, idea. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 06:53:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:52:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: No mail Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:50:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.4503.0> References: <<2.2.32.19971128222922.0068c820@aristotle.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Rebecca Smith wrote: > > Is anyone getting mail from this list? I have not received any in several days. > > Beckie > > rwsmith@aristotle.net > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass sure, i've been getting at least 15 to 30 posts a day. i sent this message to your real address also. you may have removed yourself a while ago, when that spammer attacked the group. about 20 or more people left the group in this manner. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 06:53:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:53:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: touch lamp Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:50:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.45044.0> References: <<1997Dec2.2457.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mosfunland wrote: > > Aliens Mike.....definitely aliens.... > > maureen > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass in a way i wish it was aliens, then at least i can tell 'em to knock it off... :) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 07:00:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:59:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Taurus II blade & touch lamps Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:56:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.45659.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Di Baker wrote: > > Hi All of you Wonderful Glass Artists! > > I received an e-mail from Gemini this AM and they will replace my broken > blade at no cost. They tend to agree with everyone who responded that it > was probably just a bumpier delivery via UPS than normal. So I will start > over once my replacement blade arrives & make some wonderful goodies for > everyone. Thanks for your reassurances & kind responses. > > Having 5 cats in my home I have enjoyed the thread on the touch lamps. I > have 2 cats who have figured out how to turn them on & off...at 3AM! So > they were removed from our home. Now I have also moved the alarm clock > because my Oriental Shorthair has figured out how to turn on the radio . > > Have you tried to use the electric eye replacement socket that will turn it > on at dusk? Or a timer? > > Purrs, > > Di > > ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* > _ |\_ > \` ..\ Di Baker > __,.-" =__Y= Kitties--Bogie Blue, Chanel Blue, Sarah, > jgs ." ) Tornado, Cagney > _ / , \/\_ Wanna see how cute we are? Visit us at: > ((____| )_-\ \_-` http://www.islandnet.com/~jbrooks/di1.htm > `-----'`-----` `--` > ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, at least you found the problem, maybe i have ghost cats... generally the lamp stays off, unless there's company in which it's on for a showoff factor. all other times it stays off, unless it want's to feel like being pretty, and it turns itself on. the first switch i had in there did the same thing. except it would go up a few steps, and sometimes back one. and when it did that, i could'nt turn it off, i had to poke it repeatedly. i brought that one back, because i though it was deffective. the guy reluctently gave me a new one (he owns a mom and pop type store), and i installed this one. it still turns on, but only one step, and randomly. i tried hooking up the other tough lamp to see if the SG lamp turns on, will the other. of course it behaved for a week, and everyone was tired of the other lamp there, and it was moved back... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 07:21:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:20:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Help, Please!! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:28:52 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > My personal feeling is that I am apprehensive about = > >creating a stained glass piece for family or friends that would be a perm= > >anent part of the architecture Don't worry about it ... even big-name artists feel that way. Picasso's studio was hung to the rafters with paintings that he'd work on again and again over the decades ... and he was once "caught" amending a painting of his hanging in a museum! More to the point, to use a glass artist as an example, John La Farge's "Battle Window" at Harvard University's Memorial Hall was completed and installed, but La Farge then decided to pull it out and completely re-do it at his own expense (he wasn't a good businessman and went bankrupt numerous times, in addition to having to flee in the dark of night with his family to avoid creditors), but he was a good artist. The completed "Battle Window" is considered his masterpiece. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 07:28:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:28:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Windsor Castle Restoration Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 15:25:09 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.15259.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thank you Mike for your detective work - I will at last be able to see what several of our students have been raving about. Regards Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 07:29:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:29:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: black lab ...design thoughts Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:26:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.52638.0> References: <<199712021354.HAA17229@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk len alcamo wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael J. Greer > To: INTERNET:glass@bungi.com > Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 6:21 PM > Subject: black lab ...design thoughts > > >Hi Len- > > > >You might not be able to do as much > >glass work anymore, but have you > >given any thought to teaching? > > I thought thats what I was doing :-) > > There are lots of posts about where to find a design but very few about how > make a design. I'm just trying to stimulate that aspect by offering some > insight into the creative process. It might be boring or obvious to most > but hopefully some listees will find it interesting. > > I would like to see posts from time to time about how other folks work out > designs. > > How about it .... Mike Savad ? I know you thrive on it :-) > > Len > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i thought i already answered once... basically i would find a picture of the dog, on the net, dog magazine, black lab book, a picture from the owner of the dog, etc. put it in my opaque projector, blow it up, and trace the important features, the shape, ears, etc. and since, i believe it was a head shot, it should be easier. also make not of where the hair lays on the thing. then you want to trace over the shape by hand, smoothing contours, etc. btw before any of these steps, you want to define the borders of the panel. then trace the inner lines, eyes, mouth, ears, etc, so it looks like a dog. simply where needed. add your background, in this case though, being just a head, the background would be clear like gluechip or something. make the division lines for the dog first. make them natural looking, following the hair flow as a guide. once satisfied, do the same to the background. the background could be more tricky, there's different ways to handle it: 1. it could be broken up where needed, and keep the pieces chunky. 2. it could be divided, where needed, but also in areas where it does'nt need to be. this way you have continuity in the design. 3. a part of the background could also mean the dog's name, and a border to close the whole thing in. once all the lines are in, and whatever lines that would be straight, are. and all the measurements are rechecked (for the border), trace the whole thing in marker (fine). erase pencil lines, number pieces, and mark the glass flow arrows. i would suggest, using a black blob for the eye, for roundness. and a highly textures black for the dog. unfortunally, black will look like nothing in the light. boroque may be better, but you have to find some good pieces to give the right highlights and flow. but if it's going on a wall, black is fine, i would use granite, ripple, etc maybe a wissmach ripple, or a kokomo granite... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 08:26:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:21:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison From: ItsAlison@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: factory tours Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:11:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec2.61126.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I recently traveled to WV and Western Pa.and had a chance to tour the Youghiohgheny factory and to visit the train station shop. I"m afraid that i can not enthusiastically reccommend that anyone make this trip, if it is a long one for them, just to visit these places. Tours are available at the factory, which is much smaller than you might imagine and very much like visiting the interior of a furnace......it is very hot inside and there is actually very little to see..just molten glass being poured onto a table and put thru rollers.... You cannot buy glass at the factory, and no glass ends are available. Should you make the trip to the Train Station Outlet Store, and having traveled there, it only makes sense to do so, you will find it is very commercial and that there are certainly no bargains to be had. The back of the store is set up as a stained glass supplies store, complete with foil,lead, tools, pattern books and various supplies. The front of the store displays some very beautiful and very expensive art glass.....NONE of it made at the Youghiogheny factory or even in the area !! I did not feel that the glass prices or the glass quality were a bargain in their VERY SMALL glass bin area....others may not agree with me. We found no glass blowing location, despite many queries and phone calls. If anyone locates one there, i would like to hear about it.....it did not seem to exist when we were there in October and no one at the factory or at the store seemed to know about it. If you are going to be in or near the area, these places are definately worth a visit..but if you are making it your only destination, you may be dissappointed. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 08:29:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:26:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cape.com!sjb From: "Susan Jordan Bennett" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Angel Panel Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:16:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.61634.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BCFF13.BFF1FD20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm searching for an angel pattern -- a panel, circle, rectangle or oval. Ideally something in the neighborhood of 18" x 24" or adaptable to that size. I've been through the Stained Glass Biz pattern search, but didn't find anything suitable. Any suggestions? Susan ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BCFF13.BFF1FD20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm searching for an angel pattern = -- a panel,=20 circle, rectangle or oval. Ideally something in the neighborhood of = 18" x=20 24" or adaptable to that size. I've been through the Stained Glass = Biz=20 pattern search, but didn't find anything suitable. Any = suggestions?
 
Susan
 
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BCFF13.BFF1FD20-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 08:35:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:35:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Windsor Castle Restoration Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 11:26:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.62633.0> References: <<199712021016.KAA00463@jackel.demon.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > The program was called: Network First - Windsor Restored. Whew!!! indeed!! Thanks for tracking this down. I taped the program during broadcast really by accident. My husband wasn't going to be home and he thought he would like to see it. So, I taped it. About 10 minutes into it I was really glad that I had! When I get a chance, I'm going to double check the credits on my tape to see if we are talking the same program. Thanks again! Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 09:27:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:26:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Tue, 02 Dec 97 12:06:04 EST Message-ID: <971202.122601.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<199712021354.HAA17229@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I had mentioned some months ago that we had bought the Glass Eye and were trying it out. I have been doing the major part of our design work and still find that I prefer sitting down with paper and pencil, but... (Actually, two buts here). It is possible to put in a bitmap background and trace over it, then rescale the piece, so if I do a design and it's too small (rarely do I design too large!) (Pieces that are smaller than I want, etc), I can scan the original and make a GE designand resize. I can also pluck out bits of one design and use it in another using copy and paste. I also find it easy to use GE to draw symmetric designs, for example, Victorian type designs. I draw one side and reverse it around an axis. (Actually, I think I'm up to 3 buts already...1. resizing...2. reusing elements...3. flipping and reversing) 4. My husband has not done much design work, but is suddenly going wild. Using scanned photos (and I have to get a better camera!), he's been creating like crazy. Also using scanned previously drawn designs, he's pulling out parts and finding new uses for them, like a window corner with cardinals...so instead of saying, "Dorothy, I want to do this...design it, please", he's working on his own. He does ask me to look them over afterwards, to find uncuttable pieces, etc., but is getting more proficient. On the whole, I find it useful and my husband loves it. Latest paper and pencil design came out of the background texture of a piece of glass called "Mayflower" which is clear and has stamped into it a daisy like pattern. I drew up some flowers that complemented the pattern and layered them over a background of the Mayflower. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 09:34:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:32:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: touch lamp Date: Tue, 2 Dec 97 10:32:29 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1997Dec1.17856.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk lynice@ideal.jf.intel.com wrote: > The phone in that room was a cordless, non-cellular. old bell phones take their power from the telephone line, i believe 32v dc. if' you've ever taken a tour of a phone company switching house, this is why they have enormous banks of batteries (on the order of the size of an entire house). new phones take their power from the wall. if the circuit for that section of house is a normal 15 amp circuit, then a phone could draw enough to bring down the voltage (brownout) while the ringer goes off which could cause the lamp to switch on. you could either move the phone to a different circuit if there was one in the room, or use a different one that had an electronic ring (chirp, etc) which wouldn't draw much. a more expensive way would be to change the circuit to a 20 amp one. you might also investigate what else is on that circuit. if, for instance, you had a heavy draw of current like a refridge or washer/dryer, when one of them kicked on you'd get the same brownout. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 09:48:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:46:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Date: Tue, 02 Dec 97 12:43:59 EST Message-ID: <971202.124528.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Whatever it is, it crashes my mail server whenever I try to open it. So now I delete it... (I assume it's a glass message 9-} ) -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 09:59:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:58:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Glasangels From: Glasangels@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Taurus II blade & touch lamps Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:58:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec2.75836.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-02 11:31:58 EST, you write: << Having 5 cats in my home I have enjoyed the thread on the touch lamps. I > have 2 cats who have figured out how to turn them on & off...at 3AM! So > they were removed from our home. >> LOL ! What was removed...the lamps or the cats???? If it were me it would have been the lamps! :) from a fellow cat lover (ps. I love your signature) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 10:28:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:26:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: yahoo.com!jeanor_ak From: Jean To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: black lab ...design thoughts/Reply Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:26:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1997Dec2.2265.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Good suggestion, Len, I too would like to see more suggestions for designing. I would imagine that for some of you it's easy to 'see' where the lines should be when designing items. But for some of us 'left-brained' people it just isn't there! We would appreciate any suggestions for getting the 'feeling' for this. Thx. Jean ---len alcamo wrote: > >> > There are lots of posts about where to find a design but very few about how > make a design. I'm just trying to stimulate that aspect by offering some > insight into the creative process. It might be boring or obvious to most > but hopefully some listees will find it interesting. > > I would like to see posts from time to time about how other folks work out > designs. > > How about it .... Mike Savad ? I know you thrive on it :-) > > Len > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 10:31:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:29:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: yahoo.com!jeanor_ak From: Jean To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Help, Please!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:28:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1997Dec2.22837.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks, Albert. What an inspiration! Jean ---Albert Lewis wrote: > > Don't worry about it ... even big-name artists feel that way. > Picasso's studio was hung to the rafters with paintings that he'd > work on again and again over the decades ... and he was once "caught" > amending a painting of his hanging in a museum! More to the point, > to use a glass artist as an example, John La Farge's "Battle Window" > at Harvard University's Memorial Hall was completed and installed, > but La Farge then decided to pull it out and completely re-do it at > his own expense (he wasn't a good businessman and went bankrupt > numerous times, in addition to having to flee in the dark of night > with his family to avoid creditors), but he was a good artist. > The completed "Battle Window" is considered his masterpiece. > > Albert _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 10:36:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:35:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: glasstreasures.com!sgt From: Stephanie Hansen To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:34:43 -0600 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971202123443.00822100@glasstreasures.com> References: <<971202.124528.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dorothy wrote: >Whatever it is, it crashes my mail server whenever I try to open it. >So now I delete it... >(I assume it's a glass message 9-} ) It was this: ----- From: "Susan Jordan Bennett" To: Subject: Angel Panel Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:16:34 -0500 Reply-To: glass@bungi.com I'm searching for an angel pattern -- a panel, circle, rectangle or oval. Ideally something in the neighborhood of 18" x 24" or adaptable to that size. I've been through the Stained Glass Biz pattern search, but didn't find anything suitable. Any suggestions? Susan ----- Steph ~ --- Stephanie Hansen Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX sgt@glasstreasures.com NEW web site address: http://glasstreasures.com/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 10:57:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:56:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.abelink.com!rbaker From: Di Baker To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Taurus II blade & touch lamps Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:01:16 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971202130116.2ab7c35e@mail.abelink.com> References: <<1997Dec2.75836.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LOL! To clear this up -- the lamps were REMOVED. My DH even knows most days that if I had to choose it would be my kitties. (((: Purrs, Di At 12:58 PM 12/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-12-02 11:31:58 EST, you write: > ><< Having 5 cats in my home I have enjoyed the thread on the touch lamps. I > > have 2 cats who have figured out how to turn them on & off...at 3AM! So > > they were removed from our home. >> > > LOL ! What was removed...the lamps or the cats???? If it were me it would >have been the lamps! > :) from a fellow cat lover >(ps. I love your signature) > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 11:03:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:03:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Kilgore Trout To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:53:10 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.55310.0> References: <<971202.124528.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cats Cradle Inc Precedence: bulk Interesting - it comes up empty (just the message 'header' - no text) when I open it with Netscape ver 4.0. mail wrote: > Whatever it is, it crashes my mail server whenever I try to open it. > So now I delete it... > (I assume it's a glass message 9-} ) > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?'"Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 11:04:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:04:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: jandj@tvutel.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Location Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:04:22 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.7422.0> References: <<199712010718.BAA23897@ns.ictc.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm from a place called Twin Valley Minnesota. I have been doing stained glass for 2 years now. I am a High School art teacher. Jackie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 11:10:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:07:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: jandj@tvutel.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:07:39 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.7739.0> References: <<971202.124528.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > Whatever it is, it crashes my mail server whenever I try to open it. > So now I delete it... > (I assume it's a glass message 9-} ) > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Whatever it is it does not have anything in it when opened. It did not crash anything of mine but did not have any message on it. Deleted it. Jackie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 11:42:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:41:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!SSparks99 From: SSparks99 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Touch lamp Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:41:11 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec2.194111.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk This is a little off of the subject - but I also "hear" from "them" that Halogen lamps - which we have - should not be left on for long periods of time, either. Keli ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 11:52:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:52:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ictc.com!bankers From: "The Banker's House" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:54:12 -0600 Message-ID: <199712021957.NAA01646@ns.ictc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Crashed my system too! Dale $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The Banker's House Home of the Buffalo Gang "It is better to spend money like there is no tomorrow, Than to spend tonight like there is no money!" $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ---------- > From: jandj@tvutel.com > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? > Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 1:07 PM > > mail wrote: > > > > Whatever it is, it crashes my mail server whenever I try to open it. > > So now I delete it... > > (I assume it's a glass message 9-} ) > > > > -- > > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Whatever it is it does not have anything in it when opened. It did not > crash anything of mine but did not have any message on it. Deleted it. > > Jackie > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 11:54:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:53:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!SSparks99 From: SSparks99 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass Workshop Plans Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:53:36 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec2.195336.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-11-27 15:56:56 EST, you write: << Glasangels@aol.com >> Marilyn: In the monthly issue #30 of the Stained Glass News there was an article on page 4 under the heading, "The Reader's Workshop New Products" about Cindy Blais' whorkshop. There is a picture of her work area and a blurb about it. If you can get this back issue, or look at a friend's issue #30, you could see how she did hers. Keli ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 12:13:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:12:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ee.net!pucky From: "Sheila" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:18:43 -0500 Message-ID: <199712022014.PAA15811@ee.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk What ever it was crashed my system too! I am up and running again though Sheila Ohio ---------- : From: The Banker's House : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: Re: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? : Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 2:54 PM : : Crashed my system too! : : Dale : : $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ : The Banker's House : Home of the Buffalo Gang : "It is better to spend money like there is no tomorrow, : Than to spend tonight like there is no money!" : : $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ : : ---------- : > From: jandj@tvutel.com : > To: glass@bungi.com : > Subject: Re: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? : > Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 1:07 PM : > : > mail wrote: : > > : > > Whatever it is, it crashes my mail server whenever I try to open it. : > > So now I delete it... : > > (I assume it's a glass message 9-} ) : > > : > > -- : > > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 : > > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 : > > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu : > > ---- : > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : > Whatever it is it does not have anything in it when opened. It did not : > crash anything of mine but did not have any message on it. Deleted it. : > : > Jackie : > ---- : > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 12:28:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:27:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cape.com!sjb From: "Susan Jordan Bennett" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Question about Angels -- again. Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:17:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.101731.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry about the problems, folks. This is the only list serve where I have problems sending messages. This is the third time I've changed my sending format to this group, but it never seems to work quite right. Hope it works this time. I'm searching for an angel pattern -- a panel, circle, rectangle or oval. Ideally something in the neighborhood of 18" x 24" or adaptable to that size. I've been through the Stained Glass Biz pattern search, but didn't find anything suitable. Any suggestions? Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 13:16:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:15:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Copy of: Sites for IGGA members Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:02:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.11220.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Michael J. Greer, 105715,1412 TO: INTERNET:alewis@vgernet.net, INTERNET:alewis@vgernet.net DATE: 12/2/97 1:13 PM RE: Copy of: Sites for IGGA members Albert, thanks for the reminder about the free web-site... now that we've been IGGA members for = almost a year, perhaps we'll get motivated to send you our photos! We'd like to link the IGGA page to our main web site since you get so many more hits than we do... something everyone should consider IMNSHO! Also, I will today send someone a check for Julie Sloan's "Conser- vation of Stained Glass in America". To whom shall I send it? Thanks! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 13:34:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:33:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: yahoo.com!jeanor_ak From: Jean To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:32:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1997Dec2.53234.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mine also came up blank, also on Netscape. Jean ---Kilgore Trout wrote: > > Interesting - it comes up empty (just the message 'header' - no text) > when I open it with Netscape ver 4.0. > mail wrote: > > > Whatever it is, it crashes my mail server whenever I try to open it. > > So now I delete it... > > (I assume it's a glass message 9-} ) > > > > -- > > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > > > > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > -- > 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative > altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's > most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for > others?'"Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 14:54:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:52:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: black lab ...design thoughts/Reply Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 17:49:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.124953.0> References: <<1997Dec2.2265.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jean wrote: > > Good suggestion, Len, I too would like to see more suggestions for > designing. I would imagine that for some of you it's easy to 'see' > where the lines should be when designing items. But for some of us > 'left-brained' people it just isn't there! We would appreciate any > suggestions for getting the 'feeling' for this. Thx. > Jean > > ---len alcamo wrote: > > > >> > > There are lots of posts about where to find a design but very few > about how > > make a design. I'm just trying to stimulate that aspect by offering > some > > insight into the creative process. It might be boring or obvious to > most > > but hopefully some listees will find it interesting. > > > > I would like to see posts from time to time about how other folks > work out > > designs. > > > > How about it .... Mike Savad ? I know you thrive on it :-) > > > > Len > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, at any inside corner or impossible inside cuts, there should always be a break line. the line could be a simple line, a basic division. the lines should flow smoothly, from another curve, off a tree branch etc. or it could be divided to look like clouds. it's really kind of hard to explain it all in words. the best thing i can recomend is to look at a panel, and look at it's break lines and see what they did. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 14:56:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:55:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Touch lamp Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 17:52:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.125238.0> References: <<1997Dec2.194111.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk SSparks99 wrote: > > This is a little off of the subject - but I also "hear" from "them" that > Halogen lamps - which we have - should not be left on for long periods of > time, either. > > Keli > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah halogen lamps can easily cause fires. they showed that putting papers, cloth etc, on it, started a fire in about 2 minutes. but for stained glass, halogen is a little intense. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 16:14:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:12:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!bunzie From: Lori To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCFF56.38AD8EE0" Subject: RE: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:11:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.141129.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFF56.38AD8EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Big ole crash-a-roonie here too!! ~Lori ---------- From: The Banker's House[SMTP:bankers@ictc.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 2:54 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Crashed my system too! Dale $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The Banker's House Home of the Buffalo Gang "It is better to spend money like there is no tomorrow, Than to spend tonight like there is no money!" $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ---------- > From: jandj@tvutel.com > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? > Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 1:07 PM > > mail wrote: > > > > Whatever it is, it crashes my mail server whenever I try to open it. > > So now I delete it... > > (I assume it's a glass message 9-} ) > > > > -- > > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Whatever it is it does not have anything in it when opened. It did not > crash anything of mine but did not have any message on it. Deleted it. > > Jackie > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFF56.38AD8EE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhgAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AAgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAD0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AU01UUABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAAAAHgACMAEAAAAF AAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABAAAABnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20AAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4A ATABAAAAEgAAACdnbGFzc0BidW5naS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpHTEFTU0BCVU5H SS5DT00AAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAN8KwEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N aWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAvAAAAUkU6IFdoYXQncyBpbiB0aGUgbWVzc2FnZSB0 aXRsZSAiQW5nZWwgUGFuZWwiPwBYDwEFgAMADgAAAM0HDAACABMACwAdAAIAHwEBIIADAA4AAADN BwwAAgATAAsABQACAAcBAQmAAQAhAAAAODk3MkExRDU0ODZCRDExMTgzN0NEQzJGMDJDMTA2MjcA CQcBA5AGADAGAAASAAAACwAjAAEAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQABAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQKnwAID/ vAEeAHAAAQAAAC8AAABSRTogV2hhdCdzIGluIHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlIHRpdGxlICJBbmdlbCBQYW5l bCI/AAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvP+AAPDVoXKKa0gR0YN83C8CwQYnAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQ AAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEQAAAGJ1bnppZUBmbGFzaC5uZXQAAAAAAwAGED4rTywDAAcQTQUAAB4ACBAB AAAAZQAAAEJJR09MRUNSQVNILUEtUk9PTklFSEVSRVRPT0xPUkktLS0tLS0tLS0tRlJPTTpUSEVC QU5LRVJTSE9VU0VTTVRQOkJBTktFUlNASUNUQ0NPTVNFTlQ6VFVFU0RBWSxERUNFTUIAAAAAAgEJ EAEAAACfBAAAmwQAAFYKAABMWkZ1tilfmv8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAG wwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMztwLkBxMCgzQSzBTFfQqAPwjPCdkCgAqBDbELYG5neDEwMxRQ CwoVYgHQIJBCaWcgBvBlIAUAwGFzaC1hLQNgAiBZCJAgaASQG1B0HAAhpiEKhQqFfkwFsGkdDEEK 9GxpMTgwAtFp8C0xNDQN8AzQIBMLWVwxNgqgA2AT0GMFQC1fIjcKhyDrDDAhtkYDYTrnIz4htgyC IFQcYBrgAHBqawSQJwQgSAhgEbBbQFNNVFA6YidDcyRAaSIAYy4FoG1dfyLfI+0GYAIwJR8mLApQ c8BkYXksIEQFkBPgImIEkCAwMi4QMTkAOTcgMjo1NCDMUE0pjyPtVG8rzyYrRmcLYAQQQGJ1GVBp xykyL88qnnViaiHxMe+pJitSZTcgVxGAdCeRjwuAHKAnAQeBc2FnHJGkaXQbQSJBGVBlAyBmUABw O0AiPx4/H0Mz3jYgtxRRC/IhtkMbggmAcToQeSBzE7Mcox0MRPUHQGUdDCRCT0NfRBkKhb8m7xGw RSYnwAeAGyBmOdOMQnUN0AdAbyBHGUHZRSYiSQVABAAgLoACQHcukRywP4BwCfA/QQIgZb8/cB9w J2A50hyBSYFuSGDLHLAEYHIDYHcsRSgDkedKJxywAwBnaAVASx9Ks9QhIkUmPCh+PkUmRB+vUz9E fx1mIj8+JMVqAHBAZGpAdHZ1E9Bs/zR5VvAxwjPPVqU2tzkPOh9/Oy9W0kEgE9A3IC2vLrgx/Dow LzAvp1bwVocAwAMRenchwjpWh2G5VvBbkmX+di6RXQBJcV+QZQEbcweR1z9hYmMRsHJkwnccYDuQ tWTCSRygcj9wSiFvSmH1ZPEuYxlTSGBL8AfgZ6C/DbAbQBPQaHJqgGMZKGeg3VlhdUdhXQAnkWFZ NFxnkDktXH1FgCApYx9fY3NWaV6hBbAh0Gg/cEvtB0BhTUFfkEkCMASQH3C+YhuAZ9Ed8AORa1A4 PVCQKSA2N21QMjkgMDFFgEZBWHI5IDA0NkFt2VVDT05OJ7Bl3wdAXDA+0CuRLpFMcXRfkHBQT0Ig IDAZgF+QRrUKwG0LgGdOET7QVC6wOT1QMzR0ERmAbdlIQ9BMQURNLsBAdRACIGBuVk0udQWgenAu bQmAdW6LbztGBbFrsGL9BPRpeAERcV1xZUELUHWAnxGwYlQcsFklG+BlcV8x/nRZn2OCMcBmkU3j XCMfcP8TwF+QgvN+n1lfbgYHEBFw9mlkwGwxdmJxAaAbQVuwgxxQAkBwOi8vd4fAei40Jy+EU1aH ZHxk8mQ+bweRS/CHMYaAhwFueX9cMHfBW/JlAWcSaCMJgC7zRYBJUWRpP0CK8VaHG3P/i3hHkXex G1A0II1niydcZ/94AWiBRYBfsGoSP0BoilaH+koA0GsIkFaHVkx9D34f/38vgD9YtYHfgu+D/1g7 hf//hw+IH1WmCoWV35bvl/+ZD/8Kspp/m4+cnzRbnp+fr6C/vx05PF89byHFCoUWwQCyUAADABAQ AAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMOAKZ/J//7wBQAAIMOAKZ/J//7wBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAAt 8g== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFF56.38AD8EE0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 16:39:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:37:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire From: "Doug Scale" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Susan's Condition? Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:34:05 -0500 Message-ID: <199712030041.TAA21171@sleepy.ebtech.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Toby > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Susan's Condition? > Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 10:29 PM > > Elisabeth, Thanks for the update on your friend. All of us on this side of the pond send our best wishes. I agree with Dawn, I sure learned a lot about the hazards of our craft because of the postings, and also as Dawn said the classes I took barely touched on safe handling of lead and other chemicals we deal with routinely. Doug Scale ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 18:17:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:16:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: inspace.net!herba From: "Herb Adler" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: You "guys" have all done it for me! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:13:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.161327.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Welcome to the zippered chest club. I've been through the by-pass thing twice; first in '82 and again in '91. I can tell you that the first weeks are the hardest. Stay focused on getting the body back in shape and I have every confidence you will do well. Rehab and exercise are important. I know how the first sneeze hurts and the joy of climbing Mt. Everest so if I can share any experiences with you, give me a holler. -----Original Message----- From: LByrne21@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, November 28, 1997 10:17 PM Subject: You "guys" have all done it for me! >Last week, I returned home from an open-heart, quadruple, by-pass and >pace-maker implant, experience. The body was beaten, pulmeted, bruised, >ripped, stitched, needled (giant size), pinched, squeezed, and, blood >pressured to death. (I don't think I should have put it just that way). The >mind was gone, the spirit was lost and interest in everything was something >of the past. > >Tonight, for the first time, I climbed Mt. Everest (to my bedroom on the >second floor) and, also where the computer is located. A disinterested flick >of the switch on the computer brought me to "bungi" e-mail.....and to "you >guys". Wow! what medication! I AM alive....there IS interest! There's >still a whole world outside of this physical body of mine (which has been > giving me so much trouble, and, had taken over my whole mind ).... > >I've been a lurker, practically since the beginning of "Bungi"...not adding >much, but certainly keeping tuned to all that goes on; and tonight, after >going thru my e-mail and catching up on things, you certainly have >preformed my private miracle. > >At this point you're probably thinking "this poor kid ought to get a >life...... for the "Bungies" to have had such a profound effect on her". > Well, this is the first activity I've been able to do for myself, without >having to have half the world wait upon my every need (except..... I DID > climb Mt. Everest tonight) > >So , Thank you, thank you, thank you all. I've had fun tonight. I'm looking >forward to coming back to the 'ole computer and "Bungi". Monday I've gotta' >go back to the hospital (I'm among the 3% of the population who has >Pace-Maker-Syndrome which means the body says, "give me another type of >pace-maker wire, 'cause I reject the one you've given me") I'm looking >forward to going, 'cause that's one of the reasons I've been feelin' so >physically bad and this can be easily fixed, with just a short stay >(hopefully, overnight).... > >And so, the moral of this whole story is not to underestimate, what fun, how >informative, what ideas, and how great, the stained-glass group is. Forever >grateful > Lavergne > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 18:18:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:17:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Fwd: Location for Sandi Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:17:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec2.161732.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Kokomo Glass Co. is located in Kokomo, Indiana. They go by the name of "Op Shop". The public can buy glass. Most of the glass is in barrels but they do have some in bins. They give tours and you can watch them make glass; I don't remember if it's Tues., Wed., or Thurs. the tours take place. --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Location for Sandi Date: 97-12-01 16:43:56 EST From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Kokomo Glass (advertised as the OP Shop) sells to the public. Most of their glass is in barrels so take your gloves; however, they do have sq. ft. and full sheets in bins. They are located in Kokomo, Indiana. It's either Thursday or Wednesday they give tours and visitors can actually watch them make the glass. LElsbury@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 19:14:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:12:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Cfrankie00 From: Cfrankie00@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Thanks! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:12:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec2.171242.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dawn, Thanks for the advice! I understand what you mean...I've thought of that myself. My sister-in-law is kinda picky too...not a good combination, huh? But I have such an itch to learn...I suppose I should take Bob's tip of doing the same project over and over until I improve my skills. And take some more classes. We are neighbors!!! I'm in Jeff City!!!! E-mail me privately (if you want)...I'd love to hear more about what you know and where you have studied! Cathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 19:47:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:46:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Cfrankie00 From: Cfrankie00@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Thanks for the support!!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:45:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec2.174537.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert, Thanks for the vote of confidence! I'm not going to scrap the job, I just may postpone it a bit until I can learn some more. Are you the same Albert Lewis of the IGGA? I've been reading the archives...saw an Albert Lewis there. Assuming you are the same, are you still Executive Director? And if the same, thanks again!!! I just got to a post (in the archives) where you recommended two really good books for working with lead came (I think the post was May of 1996). I have checked with the local library, but had no success. In the post of 5/96 you mentioned these books were available from the IGGA's Guild Library. Do only members have access to the Guild Library? Just curious. I suppose I could also order them from our local bookstore. A different post mentioned the book "Learning Leaded Glass" by Valarie Hixson. Any thoughts on this one? Speaking of books, how in the world do you pick out good pattern books by mail? The local store I visit has a *small* selection...maybe I'm just too picky!!! I've looked at some titles online, but I haven't the slightest idea how to pick one out by the description only (I still like picture books!!). Thanks Again!! :D Cathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 20:14:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:13:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: Northernlights To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Location - Twin Valley, MN Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:15:28 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.161528.0> References: <<1997Dec2.7422.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glad to see another Minnesotan in the group! Alas, I have to admit I'm not familiar with Twin Valley -- where is that in relation to the Twin Cities???? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 20:16:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:15:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: Northernlights To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Question about Angels -- again. Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:17:29 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec2.161729.0> References: <<1997Dec2.101731.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk After seeing the reaction to everyone's computers, I decided to delete it right from the start -- plus got live word from Oddjob about it earlier tonight when I talked to her on the phone. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 2 20:31:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:30:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CColdfeet From: CColdfeet@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Location Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:30:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec2.183013.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Naperville Ill. The idea of meeting others sounds good, it's just when and how, with all the other activities. C. Coldfeet ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 00:34:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:33:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hawk.rmplc.co.uk!mdcglas From: Phil To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Help, Please!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 08:34:14 +0000 Message-ID: <199712030833.IAA01277@mx0.rmplc.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len wrote >Some of the first panels I did I gave as presents to relatives. One early >piece in particular (a door lite) stares at me whenever I visit my >mother-in-law. To me its crude and poorly designed. I hate it ,she loves >it. I offer to replace it every time I visit but she'll have none of that. >She knows that it was one of my first efforts and thats exactly why she >cherishes it. I know just what you mean my mother has my very first piece - a butterfly suncatcher hanging in her front window - complete with it's poor soldering etc.. she won't part with it either Phil Phil Speedwell Computer Technician Microcomputer Development Centre Education Support Service Glasgow City Council ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 01:07:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:07:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Thanks for the support!!! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:15:03 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Are you the same Albert Lewis of the IGGA? Yep, the same. Not that I'm the only Albert Lewis. When I first got on the web, I did a search on my name and got more hits on a newspaper writer (football) out in Oakland CA than on me, alas. Football is far and away not my thing. > Do only > members have access to the Guild Library? Not at all. Just as many things that the Guild does ... like the uploading of all of the issues of the newsletter for everyone and anyone to use, the Guild Library is open to anyone at all. > Speaking of books, how in the world do you pick out good pattern books by > mail? Yes, that's a problem. But the books in the Guild library can be returned, if you decide they're not what you expected. On the other hand, many of the pattern books there cost less than a buck, so you could build quite a collection without a big outlay, Cathy. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 01:48:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:47:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Pep-Talk! Health & Safety Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:45:58 +0000 Message-ID: <199712030947.JAA03653@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks for the pep-talk Bob! ;-) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 03:10:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 03:10:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aristotle.net!rwsmith From: Rebecca Smith To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Thanks to everyone Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:33:39 -0600 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971202163339.0068e858@aristotle.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks to everyone who responded to my problem about not receiving any e-mail. A couple of you commented on something dealing with spamming. I have no clue what that is. I just started getting glass mail again last night. It had been over a week since any had come through. All my other lists were doing fine. At least now I can quit having glass withdrawal. Everyone have a wonderful and safe holiday season. Beckie rwsmith@aristotle.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 04:14:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:14:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:15:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.21549.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I had no problem with it. I have Netscape and Windows95. That's my story and I sticking to it. ( From the local country music radio station this morning.) She's looking for an angel panel pattern. Circle, oval, rectangle, 18" to 24". Linda Campbell Subject: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Whatever it is, it crashes my mail server whenever I try to open it. So now I delete it... (I assume it's a glass message 9-} ) -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 04:29:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:28:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!Tperri From: Tperri@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: small pieces of glass Date: 3 Dec 1997 07:33:06 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all: I am very new to this wonderful craft of stained glass. As I am doing more projects, I am finding I have more and more small pieces of glass that remain. My dilemma is two fold. What do I do with the small pieces that remain that appear too good to discard? I seem to be getting an awful lot of them and don't feel that I can get rid of them because I may want to use them in the future. However, I can see that quite soon this will be difficult to sort and store all these pieces. Secondly, how does one discard pieces of glass that you know will no longer be valuable or useful? Any tips, suggestions or adivce would be truly appreciated, Teri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 05:09:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 05:09:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ime.net!dplummer From: Tina & Dave Plummer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 08:05:01 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971203080501.007a7800@ime.net> References: <<1997Dec3.21549.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I had no problems opening this message, I am using eudora light for a mail program, when I had Microsoft mail I had similar problems and had to switch mail programs. I really don't know why it happens though. Tina dplummer@ime.net >Subject: What's in the message title "Angel Panel"? > >Whatever it is, it crashes my mail server whenever I try to open it. >So now I delete it... >(I assume it's a glass message 9-} ) > >-- >Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 >UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 >HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 05:12:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 05:12:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: sawing zinc Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:06:30 -0500 Message-ID: <199712031305.IAA25640@dns.city-net.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am working on my first lead panel, and need to cut zinc for the frame. I have a hacksaw with a mitre box, but seem to spend a lot of time trying to make the miters exact. What is everyone else using? I'm thinking about getting a metal blade for our table saw. Has anyone else done that? Thank you for a great list! Dany ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 05:35:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 05:34:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: RJF2.RJF.COM!BETTY_HALL From: BETTY_HALL@RJF2.RJF.COM (BETTY HALL) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Gargoyles Date: 03 Dec 97 08:34:24 EST Message-ID: References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Pat Kelly - I have Powerpoint, Excel, Word, Lotus etc. Not sure what graphic format but hope it works! Unable to Unzip though! Betty, Internal Audit, Ext. 4160 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 06:40:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 06:40:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: sawing zinc Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:34:23 -0500 Message-ID: <199712031433.JAA00605@dns.city-net.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am working on my first lead panel, and need to cut zinc for the frame. I have a hacksaw with a mitre box, but seem to spend a lot of time trying to make the miters exact. What is everyone else using? I'm thinking about getting a metal blade for our table saw. Has anyone else done that? Thank you for a great list! Dany Daniela Birkelbach Software Consultant dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany *********************************************************************** "640K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates, 1981 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 06:56:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 06:56:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: small pieces of glass Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:53:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.45327.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tperri@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi all: > > I am very new to this wonderful craft of stained glass. As I am doing > more projects, I am finding I have more and more small pieces of glass > that remain. My dilemma is two fold. What do I do with the small pieces > that remain that appear too good to discard? I seem to be getting an > awful lot of them and don't feel that I can get rid of them because I > may want to use them in the future. However, I can see that quite soon > this will be difficult to sort and store all these pieces. Secondly, > how does one discard pieces of glass that you know will no longer be > valuable or useful? > > Any tips, suggestions or adivce would be truly appreciated, > > Teri > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i think all of us whenwe began, horded all the tiny little scraps we had. the only real thing you can do is to make a mosiac. other's made windchimes, by drilling a hole in the top. i hold onto pieces as small as 1/4"x1/4" if it's art glass, mainly becuase i can fuse it (to itself, or sometimes other colors by the same company). for the other colors the pieces are no smaller than 2"x2". but if you have the space, sort them by color and store them. someday you might want to do mosaics, and you won't have to cut into the larger stock. to get rid of scraps: i just toss them. it can't be recycled, mainly because, clear botles and colored glass dont mix colorwise. but more importantly the expansion factor. in either case just toss it. just be sure that your entire can is'nt filled to the top with glass, it would be too heavy. chances are you or me for that matter, won't be able to do fill it to the top anyway... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 07:01:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:00:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: sawing zinc Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:58:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.4587.0> References: <<199712031433.JAA00605@dns.city-net.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Daniela Birkelbach wrote: > > I am working on my first lead panel, and need to cut zinc for the frame. I > have a hacksaw with a mitre box, but seem to spend a lot of time trying to > make the miters exact. > > What is everyone else using? I'm thinking about getting a metal blade for > our table saw. Has anyone else done that? > > Thank you for a great list! > > Dany > > Daniela Birkelbach > Software Consultant > dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany > *********************************************************************** > "640K ought to be enough for anybody." > -- Bill Gates, 1981 > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass this won't help you much, but i use an electric came saw, the chop saw kind. they make simpler devices for came cutting. basically it's a very fine tooth saw, and a miter box - metal i think. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 07:13:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:12:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fsg.prusec.com!CAVA From: Lucille Cava - 778-1932 To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: You "guys" have all done it for me! Date: Wed Dec 3 07:12:40 1997 Message-ID: <97Dec3.101247est.14782-1@prufire1.prusec.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk From: SMTP%"glass@bungi.com" 30-NOV-1997 05:38:34.50 To: CAVA CC: Subj: Re: You "guys" have all done it for me! Lavergne >From another lurker. Glad to hear you made it through all that ordeal. Hope your recovery goes quickly so that you can go back to your glass work. Lucille ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 07:14:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:13:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: sawing zinc Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:24:23 -0600 Message-ID: <199712031511.JAA12287@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Daniela Birkelbach To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 8:53 AM Subject: sawing zinc >I am working on my first lead panel, and need to cut zinc for the frame. I >have a hacksaw with a mitre box, but seem to spend a lot of time trying to >make the miters exact. > >What is everyone else using? I'm thinking about getting a metal blade for >our table saw. Has anyone else done that? I use a table saw with an old dull plywood blade installed backwards.... works for me Think > EYE PROTECTION< it does spit The little power came saws .....sewing machine motor with a small blade and foot switch.... are pretty nifty if you care to make the investment Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 07:17:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:17:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: sawing zinc Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:17:21 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "sawing zinc" on Dec 3, 8:06, "Daniela Birkelbach" writes:] > What is everyone else using? I'm thinking about getting a metal blade for > our table saw. Has anyone else done that? I use a electric table saw,..no problems. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 07:30:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:30:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: Help, Please!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:40:55 -0600 Message-ID: <199712031528.JAA13545@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > snip< and he was once "caught" >amending a painting of his hanging in a museum! >snip< University's Memorial Hall was completed and installed, >but La Farge then decided to pull it out and completely re-do it at >his own expense Great anecdotes Albert! the notion of * resting on your laurels* probably never entered their minds Len my favorite La Farge is *Peonies Blowing in the Wind* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 07:32:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:32:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: sawing zinc Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:26:34 -0500 Message-ID: <199712031525.KAA03951@dns.city-net.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Do I need a metal blade, or would a generic blade do? Dany ---------- > From: Glenna Rand > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: sawing zinc > > I use a electric table saw,..no problems. > -- > Glenna Rand > gjr@bungi.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 07:38:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:37:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: small pieces of glass Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:37:18 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk What do I do with the small pieces that remain that appear too good to discard? A couple of things I do: 1. I put any scraps approx. 1 1/2" square in a separate box (red, blue, green, yellow/gold & clear mostly) and near the holidays I cut them into bell shapes which I wrap with U came and solder into strings. I use globs for "clappers." I've sold (and given away) scores of them for gifts. You can find or design other small suncatcher-type patterns you like (butterflies or flowers that can be soldered on a rod and inserted in a plant) and keep appropriate scraps for them. B. (for all you "CarTalk" fans) I've also developed what I call my "specialty"--scrap circles. I like to make round things approx. the size of a dinner plate (size probably originated with the 11" maximum width on the office copy machine). I started with quilt-inspired patterns. These can use all kinds of odds and ends and also make nice gifts. Just lately I've been experimenting with mosaics to use up even smaller scraps. I spend every Thursday evening at a local shop/studio with a bunch of like-minded hobbyists. I have a bit of a reputation as the "scrap queen." Others in the group have been known to hold up a tiny shard and holler across the room "Kaye, can you use this or can I throw it away?" I've also learned (from bungi, of course) that you can tumble pieces in a rock tumbler and, after smoothed, put them in a bowl or jar with some fragrant oil. Haven't tried that, but a rock tumbler is on my Christmas list.... Secondly, how does one discard pieces of glass that you know will no longer be valuable or useful? Good question--one must eventually reach this point, but I haven't yet! Kaye Morton Grove, IL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 07:57:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:57:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: airmail.net!orbiter1 From: orbiter1 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Handheld foiler Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:00:36 -0600 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971203110036.0080f6e0@mail.airmail.net> References: <<3.0.1.16.19971118112057.29ef8472@mail.abelink.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I attach the end of the foil to a twist tie (the kind used to close bread bags) and then feed the end of the strip through the hand foiler. Works like a champ and I don't waste near as much foil trying to feed it through the foiler. At 11:20 AM 11/18/97, you wrote: >Hi everyone... > >I bought the glasstar hand held foiler to help me center the foil & speed >up the foiling process but I cannot figure out for the life of me the >correct way to load the foil. The instructions on the back of the package >leave alot to be desired especially if you are left handed like I am. I >tried to reverse everything & finally gave up. > >Any suggestions / directions would be appreciated. > >Thanks! > >Di Baker > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 08:37:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:37:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:38:24 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971203113824.00758308@pop.netrox.net> References: <<199712021354.HAA17229@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 12:06 PM 12/2/97 EST, you wrote: >I had mentioned some months ago that we had bought the Glass Eye and were >trying it out. There have been a couple of posts lately on design software (I presume that's what GlassEye is). A couple of days ago, Linda Campbell mentioned: " Either my PhotoDelux or Corel Printhouse has the capability of printing just the outline of scanned or imported pics and this makes a nice start for making patterns." That's very helpful, and I'd like to talk more about the capabilities of various software programs for graphics, or specifically for stained glass. I want to go beyond the outline ... I want a program that will also allow me to manipulate the size and color of the pixels ... so that I can take a photo, scan it and create a "mosaic style" pattern. I've looked at all sorts of books and manuals for PhotoShop (which is too expensive for me at this point, anyway) and it didn't seem as though their filters would answer the problem, in any case. Indeed, it seemed their filters would distort the pattern too much. Does anyone have experience with PhotoShop to share? What about other programs that could go this step beyond a pattern outline? Any experience or feedback, please? Thanks! Cheers, M.-J. *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*% M.-J. Taylor athena@netrox.net When you talk about your troubles, your ailments, your diseases, your hurts, you give longer life to what makes you unhappy. Talking about your grievances merely adds to those grievances. Give recognition only to what you desire. Think and talk only about the good things that add to your enjoyment of your work and life. If you don't talk about your grievances, you'll be delighted to find them disappearing quickly. -- Thomas Dreier *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 08:43:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:42:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Morse Museum Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:44:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971203114404.00750924@pop.netrox.net> References: <<199712021424.IAA18929@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Fellow Bungians, I just had to share my delight with you! I had the distinct pleasure of touring the Morse Museum in Orlando this past holiday weekend. My first time! I was impressed by Louis Tiffany's stained glass work and designs (who wouldn't be?) and quite fascinated by the layering of glass. How different one piece looks up close and from a distance! I was also interested to see some of Tiffany's paintings -- apparently he was quite well known as an artist in his day, which I had never known -- and his other designs in jewelry, pottery and glass. I really enjoyed it, and since the collection is larger than can be shown at one time there are treasures to look forward to on my next visit to Orlando. The museum is reconstructing Tiffany's famous chapel created for the 1896 (or 1890?) Columbian Exhibition, a World's Fair. Oh, I should love to see that! Cheers, M.-J. ****What I write is just what *I* think. Please take what *you* (if anything) and leave the rest.**** *%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%& "When you see a worthy person, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy person, then examine your inner self." -- Confucius *%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%& ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 09:09:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:08:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Kilgore Trout To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: sawing zinc Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:59:25 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.35925.0> References: <<199712031305.IAA25640@dns.city-net.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cats Cradle Inc Precedence: bulk Daniela Birkelbach wrote: > I am working on my first lead panel, and need to cut zinc for the > frame. I > have a hacksaw with a mitre box, but seem to spend a lot of time > trying to > make the miters exact. I use a Morton accessory, which I can't remember the name of at the moment, and I'm reading this @ work. Its a type of mitre box that actually clamps the came, so you don't get as much variation as if you were holding the came in place with your fingers.It was cheap ($9 or $10). I have a friend who has an electric came saw, which is neat, but a few more $$ than I am willing to spend. The saw is a small (6" X 8" ?) mini table saw, with an abrasive blade. (3 - 4" in dia.).Geez, I'm starting to sound like a Morton spokesperson. I think I've got more Morton stuff in my shop than anything else. No affiliation, just I'm a gadget freak, and they make some neat stuff. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?'"Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 09:58:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:56:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: glasstreasures.com!sgt From: Stephanie Hansen To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: small pieces of glass Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:52:50 -0600 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971203115250.007c14d0@glasstreasures.com> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I am very new to this wonderful craft of stained glass. As I am doing >more projects, I am finding I have more and more small pieces of glass >that remain. My dilemma is two fold. What do I do with the small pieces >that remain that appear too good to discard? As with many others, I keep almost all scraps of glass. The pieces that are too small for anything at all, even mosaics, I throw away. I keep a small paper bag on my workbench to throw in the itty bitty scraps that I break off with my pliers, then when I'm ready to throw the bag away, I wrap it up in a couple of small plastic bags (like you get from the store) before putting in the normal trash bag, to help keep any sharp edges from poking through too bad. The scraps that may be big enough for mosaic use (which is a "some day I'll learn to do mosaics" kind of thing), I sort into major colors and a miscellaneous category. I put these scraps into old upright "kleenex" boxes. They're free (after they're empty of course), and they work fine. I also use a lot of the smaller scraps for free-form pins. Just grind the edges smooth and leave it in whatever shape it happened to come off in, wrap foil around the edge, and glue a pin back on it. These are great freebies to throw in with an order (I only sell smaller gift-type items, not window/door inserts, so they're a good freebie to give with a few suncatchers or small panels). The larger scraps that can be used for small pattern pieces in the future are kept in plastic 4-drawer-containers (like the "Vanities" line, which I buy at Wal-Mart) sorted by color. I prefer the drawers rather than just boxes, so I can pull out the drawer I want rather than having to take the lid off a box. The drawers aren't see-through, but I have them labelled. Scraps which are too large for the drawers, starting at about 4" x 4", I keep along with most of my other glass in metal vertical file holders that I buy at the office supply - these are generally used in offices for keeping file folders on desks. Most of the glass I buy is in the small to medium size (usually not larger than 18" x 24"), and anything up to 12" x 12" or so fits fine in these file holders. The few larger sheets of glass that I have are leaning against my workbench, on the side next to the wall. That was probably more than anyone wanted to know , but basically I keep all but the ittiest bittiest of pieces. My definition of ittiest bittiest is beginning to expand a little, though, as my kleenex boxes get full with no day in sight that they'll be used! Steph ~ --- Stephanie Hansen Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX sgt@glasstreasures.com NEW web site address: http://glasstreasures.com/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 10:04:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:03:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!artglass From: "Dianne G. Maddison" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: cutting zinc Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:02:21 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.3221.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Ivory Express Precedence: bulk Hi, I quess I have remained silent long enough (always afraid of "hoof in mouth" disease. Well, here goes. I am a newbe on bungi but I have learned a great deal through reading bungi for the last year. I have been involved in stained glass for 17 years and still learn new things about the business all the time, and they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Ha! I would like to add my two cents worth on the subject of mitred corners on zinc. I have used a dremel with a cut-off wheel (#426) for a few years and it works great. It cuts quickly and neatly. It sure beats wearing your arm out with a hacksaw. Thanks to all at bungi! Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 10:11:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:10:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:08:49, -0500 Message-ID: <199712031808.NAA13474@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk M.-J. writes: That's very helpful, and I'd like to talk more about the capabilities of various software programs for graphics, or specifically for stained glass. I want to go beyond the outline ... I want a program that will also allow me to manipulate the size and color of the pixels ... so that I can take a photo, scan it and create a "mosaic style" pattern. Bob writes, You can down load a free demo copy of American Bevel Designer from the American Bevel site. You can color your designs and texture them somewhat. Demo copy does not support printing. Paint in Win95 allows manipulation of pixels but I don't think to the degree you desire without a lot of work. Excellent for small changes. I used it to add a tattoo to a photo. Made the tattoo design in paint. Understand you can also down load a copy of the program Glass Eye but I have no experience with it. Good luck, Bob (who has no tattoos while mother lives) ____ Bob Duchesneau (Mother of Freeway and father of Digger) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 10:21:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:20:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: sawing zinc Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:16:11, -0500 Message-ID: <199712031816.NAA17840@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Daniela Birkelbach wrote: > I am working on my first lead panel, and need to cut zinc for the > frame. I > have a hacksaw with a mitre box, but seem to spend a lot of time > trying to > make the miters exact. Bob writes, The Morton clamping miter box as suggested by Kilgore Trout is a good way to go if you do not have enough sawing to justify an electric came saw. I have excellent results when using a hacksaw blade with 32 teeth per inch. Blades with less teeth than 32 hog down on the work. Also I cut on the push stroke and lightly draw back. Works well with brass also. Saw on, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (Mother of Freeway and father of Digger) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 11:27:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:26:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: crl.com!slally From: Sean Lally To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:20:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <<199712031808.NAA13474@mime4.prodigy.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sounds like a job for Adobe Photoshop to me. I use Illustrator for the cartoon design and if I want to fiddle with colors I use Photoshop. On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote: > M.-J. writes: > That's very helpful, and I'd like to talk more about the capabilities > of > various software programs for graphics, or specifically for stained > glass. > > I want to go beyond the outline ... I want a program that will also > allow > me to manipulate the size and color of the pixels ... so that I can > take a > photo, scan it and create a "mosaic style" pattern. > > Bob writes, > You can down load a free demo copy of American Bevel Designer from > the American Bevel site. You can color your designs and texture them > somewhat. Demo copy does not support printing. Paint in Win95 allows > manipulation of pixels but I don't think to the degree you desire > without a lot of work. Excellent for small changes. I used it to add > a tattoo to a photo. Made the tattoo design in paint. > Understand you can also down load a copy of the program Glass Eye but > I have no experience with it. > Good luck, Bob (who has no tattoos while mother lives) > > ____ > Bob Duchesneau (Mother of Freeway and father of Digger) Mountain > Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, > USA 92026 > Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 12:39:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:38:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Handheld foiler Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:30:15 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.53015.0> References: <<3.0.1.16.19971118112057.29ef8472@mail.abelink.com>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm sorry to disagree, Put the foil , with the paper on, completely through the foiler plus a little more than the length of the foiler,now cut the paper off and rewind your roll of foil until it gets (the paper) to the end of the foiler start the paper back up over the end of the foiler and Voila!! Throw!!!! the directions away!!!! On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:00:36 -0600 orbiter1 writes: >I attach the end of the foil to a twist tie (the kind used to close >bread >bags) and then feed the end of the strip through the hand foiler. >Works >like a champ and I don't waste near as much foil trying to feed it >through >the foiler. > > >At 11:20 AM 11/18/97, you wrote: >>Hi everyone... >> >>I bought the glasstar hand held foiler to help me center the foil & >speed >>up the foiling process but I cannot figure out for the life of me the >>correct way to load the foil. The instructions on the back of the >package >>leave alot to be desired especially if you are left handed like I >am. I >>tried to reverse everything & finally gave up. >> >>Any suggestions / directions would be appreciated. >> >>Thanks! >> >>Di Baker >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 14:08:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:02:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: small pieces of glass Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:02:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec3.12214.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I use small pieces of glass for stepping stones. I have also been amazed how often I need a really small piece for a panel. I have found shoe boxes, or any other type of small box, as extremely useful for storing small pieces of glass. I separate by color, label the box, and then stack them under my work table, although they seem to be out in the middle of the floor more than under the table. Suncatchers seldom need to big of a piece of glass. The Angels and Elves book patterns need fairly small pieces. Hope this helps. LElsbury@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 14:11:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:11:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Angel Panel Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:11:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec3.12111.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk There are several new angel patterns that have come out in the past 6 months. They are 18" plus. I know Delphi carries them. You would need to draw the background to use it in a panel. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 15:16:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:15:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: citynet.net!hupp From: Zor Prime To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: torchiere lamps Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:10:07 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.11107.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Gamma Force Precedence: bulk Hi folks, I recently bought 2 torchiere lamp bases and a beautiful floor lamp and found I had no idea about how to build lamps for them. (I've never seen a finished one and have no glass shops ANYWHERE in my area.) I purchased the Shade Parade book of patterns and now have the data but I have never seen "attaching rings" for sale in any of my catalogs. Does anybody have any suggestions? I live in a very small town in West Virginia along the Ohio valley, so I feel mail order is my only option. Thanks! Kathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 16:34:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:33:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: sawing zinc Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:34:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.14346.0> References: <<199712031433.JAA00605@dns.city-net.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > I am working on my first lead panel, and need to cut zinc for the frame. Hi, Dany, There are definite limitations to this toy, but if you are working with 3/16" to 1/4" zinc, there is a thing called a notcher. It can be ordered from Delphi for sure and probably Warner-Crivellero. At the point where you need a corner you put the zinc in the channels, squeeze the handles, out pops a mitre. Bend the came and off you go. The Delphi catalog descibes it pretty well. ***It will not work for zinc wider than a 1/4"*** Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 17:25:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:25:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: feline pattern Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:24:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec3.152453.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Has anyone see a picture or pattern of a cat with its paw raised in greeting? This supposedly is an oriental symbol of some kind. One of my customers said she saw it (picture) in one of the gadget/junk magazines (e.g. Harriet Carter) but now cannot find it. If anyone is familiar with its meaning or know where I can find a picture of this I would appreciate your input. Thanks! LElsbury@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 17:28:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:28:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cyberramp.net!byronw From: byronw@cyberramp.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: small pieces of glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:28:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199712040127.TAA07835@mailhost.cyberramp.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: Tperri@mssb.net > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: small pieces of glass > Date: 3 Dec 1997 07:33:06 EDT > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > Hi all: > > I am very new to this wonderful craft of stained glass. As I am doing > more projects, I am finding I have more and more small pieces of glass > that remain. My dilemma is two fold. What do I do with the small pieces > that remain that appear too good to discard? I seem to be getting an > awful lot of them and don't feel that I can get rid of them because I > may want to use them in the future. However, I can see that quite soon > this will be difficult to sort and store all these pieces. Secondly, > how does one discard pieces of glass that you know will no longer be > valuable or useful? > > Any tips, suggestions or adivce would be truly appreciated, > > > Teri Hi Teri.. I use those plastic shoe size storage boxes to sort and seperate different colors and such... They work great and are stackable.. To get rid of a bunch of scrap try doing a dozen or more small suncatchers for friends and relatives for Christmas... When I do any smaller projects I dig through the boxes first before I look at the sheets... Byron... Wells Glassworks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 17:29:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:29:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cyberramp.net!byronw From: byronw@cyberramp.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: sawing zinc Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:28:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199712040127.TAA07820@mailhost.cyberramp.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: "Daniela Birkelbach" > To: > Subject: sawing zinc > Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:34:23 -0500 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > I am working on my first lead panel, and need to cut zinc for the frame. I > have a hacksaw with a mitre box, but seem to spend a lot of time trying to > make the miters exact. > > What is everyone else using? I'm thinking about getting a metal blade for > our table saw. Has anyone else done that? > > Thank you for a great list! > > Dany I used a hacksaw and miter box a few times but it was a real pain to use... Even tried using my scrollsaw with a metal cutting blade but it was just to rough.. I bought one of those Gryphon Came saws a few weeks ago since I had a large transom window to do using brass came ... It works great! It is however a little pricey.. A cheaper alternative would be one of the Inland or other mini tablesaws which should work well... They all use fiber type blades... You should be able to get one to fit your table saw.. It will just waste a little more came than the others do... Be REAL careful if you try it tho.. That large a saw could easily send a piece of came at you just like a bullet... Byron... Wells Glassworks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 17:36:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:35:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: earthlink.net!jeksac From: John Keller To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: small pieces of glass Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:40:09 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.13409.0> References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Admin Kit Investigator Precedence: bulk Kaye, enjoyed your note. have you learned how to do a mechanic's shrug while you make your "specialty" circles? - or maybe when you're asked glass questions? Linn, another Car Talk fan, in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas, 5 miles from South PadreIsland and Mexico. Kaye Sodt wrote: > > What do I do with the small pieces that remain that appear too good > to discard? > > A couple of things I do: > > 1. I put any scraps approx. 1 1/2" square in a separate box (red, > blue, green, yellow/gold & clear mostly) and near the holidays I cut > them into bell shapes which I wrap with U came and solder into > strings. I use globs for "clappers." I've sold (and given away) > scores of them for gifts. You can find or design other small > suncatcher-type patterns you like (butterflies or flowers that can be > soldered on a rod and inserted in a plant) and keep appropriate > scraps for them. > > B. (for all you "CarTalk" fans) I've also developed what I call my > "specialty"--scrap circles. I like to make round things approx. the > size of a dinner plate (size probably originated with the 11" maximum > width on the office copy machine). I started with quilt-inspired > patterns. These can use all kinds of odds and ends and also make > nice gifts. > > Just lately I've been experimenting with mosaics to use up even > smaller scraps. I spend every Thursday evening at a local > shop/studio with a bunch of like-minded hobbyists. I have a bit of a > reputation as the "scrap queen." Others in the group have been known > to hold up a tiny shard and holler across the room "Kaye, can you use > this or can I throw it away?" > > I've also learned (from bungi, of course) that you can tumble pieces > in a rock tumbler and, after smoothed, put them in a bowl or jar with > some fragrant oil. Haven't tried that, but a rock tumbler is on my > Christmas list.... > > Secondly, how does one discard pieces of glass that you > know will no longer be valuable or useful? > > Good question--one must eventually reach this point, but I haven't > yet! > > Kaye > Morton Grove, IL > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 17:51:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:51:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:49:36 +0000 Message-ID: <199712040151.BAA32554@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Bungi Designers, Drawing is one thing, designing is another. My advice to myself and my students has always been; use lead-lines as part of the drawing/design process. Try and avoid putting lead-lines in just to hold your panel together and making it feasible to cut. Use lead-lines as part of your drawing/designing process. You will then find that you gain extra fluidity and continuity into your finished panel. Historically, I am a pencil and paper person myself. However I see quite clearly the relevance of CAD. I also have seen the light that I myself have to learn it , to use it and in order also to teach it. When I started my business and became computerized, I went through a horrendeous process of trying to find an accounting/book-keeping soft-ware package that suited ME. I must have gone through about 4-5 different ones, with increasing despondency. I almost gave up.Then found a simple one that suited me down to the ground. I went through a similar (if not quite identical) process with CAD for stained glass. Through circumstantial events I stumbled across GlassEye and Michael Wilks' set-up Dragonfly. The rest is history. For the Newbies, please do try and get into Bungi archives to read up on earlier discussions there about software programmes. You will see that GlassEye came out very favourably. Since then, they have added and updated a couple of times to GlassEye. Full demo down-load is available from their WEB-site http://www.dfly.com and like the American Bevels one can't print from the WEB-demo. Only the other day I received the latest up-date from Michael through the snail-mail and am looking forward to a few minutes' peace this coming week-end to play with my new "goodies" The GlassEye is available for W3.1 as well as W95. Michael Wilks is helpful, patient and "on the ball" and a really nice guy (all 6'2" of him!) I have said it before and I'll say it again. He has never let ME down. Try for yourself! My very Best Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Bob writes, You can down load a free demo copy of American Bevel Designer from the American Bevel site. You can color your designs and texture them somewhat. Demo copy does not support printing. Paint in Win95 allows manipulation of pixels but I don't think to the degree you desire without a lot of work. Excellent for small changes. I used it to add a tattoo to a photo. Made the tattoo design in paint. Understand you can also down load a copy of the program Glass Eye but I have no experience with it. Good luck, Bob (who has no tattoos while mother lives) ____ Bob Duchesneau (Mother of Freeway and father of Digger) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 17:52:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:51:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: small pieces of glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:49:36 +0000 Message-ID: <199712040151.BAA32536@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Stephanie et all, I keep even the "itty-bitty" bits.... Several local potters and pottery groups keep knocking on my door asking for them, so I save these bits for them. They will use them as glazes on their pottery. In this way I get acquainted with another art-form I know only too little about. My advice to you, look up where there is a local pottery class in your area, contact the teacher and offer your "itty-bitty" bits. They will be only too pleased to come and collect! Who knows, if you smile sweetly enough, you might even get some kind of "trade" going in return.... ;-) My Best Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK As with many others, I keep almost all scraps of glass. The pieces that are too small for anything at all, even mosaics, I throw away. I keep a small paper bag on my workbench to throw in the itty bitty scraps that I break off with my pliers, then when I'm ready to throw the bag away, I wrap it up in a couple of small plastic bags (like you get from the store) before putting in the normal trash bag, to help keep any sharp edges from poking through too bad. The scraps that may be big enough for mosaic use (which is a "some day I'll learn to do mosaics" kind of thing), I sort into major colors and a miscellaneous category. I put these scraps into old upright "kleenex" boxes. They're free (after they're empty of course), and they work fine. I also use a lot of the smaller scraps for free-form pins. Just grind the edges smooth and leave it in whatever shape it happened to come off in, wrap foil around the edge, and glue a pin back on it. These are great freebies to throw in with an order (I only sell smaller gift-type items, not window/door inserts, so they're a good freebie to give with a few suncatchers or small panels). The larger scraps that can be used for small pattern pieces in the future are kept in plastic 4-drawer-containers (like the "Vanities" line, which I buy at Wal-Mart) sorted by color. I prefer the drawers rather than just boxes, so I can pull out the drawer I want rather than having to take the lid off a box. The drawers aren't see-through, but I have them labelled. Scraps which are too large for the drawers, starting at about 4" x 4", I keep along with most of my other glass in metal vertical file holders that I buy at the office supply - these are generally used in offices for keeping file folders on desks. Most of the glass I buy is in the small to medium size (usually not larger than 18" x 24"), and anything up to 12" x 12" or so fits fine in these file holders. The few larger sheets of glass that I have are leaning against my workbench, on the side next to the wall. That was probably more than anyone wanted to know , but basically I keep all but the ittiest bittiest of pieces. My definition of ittiest bittiest is beginning to expand a little, though, as my kleenex boxes get full with no day in sight that they'll be used! Steph ~ --- Stephanie Hansen Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX sgt@glasstreasures.com NEW web site address: http://glasstreasures.com/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 18:11:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:11:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: feline pattern Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 20:07:30 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.12730.0> References: <<1997Dec3.152453.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The cat you are refering to is a Japanesse symbol. There are numerous stories about how it became a symbol of good luck. If I can remember correctly, the cat was standing at a temple during a bad storm, when some wealthy samuri passed by. He stuck a pose as if beckconing them inside. The went into the temple and were so grateful for the shelter and safety that they bestowed great wealth upon the monks. This is a very short story, I know there is even more to it but ... in a nutshell .... cat saves travelers by sitting in front of a safe place and saving travelers. Now in front of stores, restaurants, etc it is a symbol of good luck. CorelDraw7 has a graphic of the very cat in the Asia directory. If you need it, I send it to you, just specify what graphic format you need. Roses and Rainbows to all Pat (8-) LElsbury@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone see a picture or pattern of a cat with its paw raised in greeting? > This supposedly is an oriental symbol of some kind. One of my customers > said she saw it (picture) in one of the gadget/junk magazines (e.g. Harriet > Carter) but now cannot find it. If anyone is familiar with its meaning or > know where I can find a picture of this I would appreciate your input. > Thanks! LElsbury@aol.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 18:22:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:21:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 20:18:05 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.12185.0> References: <<199712031808.NAA13474@mime4.prodigy.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Try CorelDraw, not only can you draw, scan, dittle(not a sexist remark) the pixels, but you can even simulate came and solder lines. If my friends and students will ever return my copy of Corel magazine, I'll post the issue number, etc., of how to design stained glass in the software (it works very well). Pat Roses and Rainbows to all (8-) BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote: > M.-J. writes: > That's very helpful, and I'd like to talk more about the capabilities > of > various software programs for graphics, or specifically for stained > glass. > > I want to go beyond the outline ... I want a program that will also > allow > me to manipulate the size and color of the pixels ... so that I can > take a > photo, scan it and create a "mosaic style" pattern. > > Bob writes, > You can down load a free demo copy of American Bevel Designer from > the American Bevel site. You can color your designs and texture them > somewhat. Demo copy does not support printing. Paint in Win95 allows > manipulation of pixels but I don't think to the degree you desire > without a lot of work. Excellent for small changes. I used it to add > a tattoo to a photo. Made the tattoo design in paint. > Understand you can also down load a copy of the program Glass Eye but > I have no experience with it. > Good luck, Bob (who has no tattoos while mother lives) > > ____ > Bob Duchesneau (Mother of Freeway and father of Digger) Mountain > Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, > USA 92026 > Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 18:29:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:28:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gargoyles Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 20:24:47 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.122447.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk OK, " windows metafile it is". I get busy on it tommorow. Pat Roses and Rainbows to all Pat (8-) BETTY HALL wrote: > Pat Kelly - > > I have Powerpoint, Excel, Word, Lotus etc. Not sure what graphic format > but hope it works! Unable to Unzip though! > > Betty, Internal Audit, Ext. 4160 > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 3 22:35:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:33:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!diamonds From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: small pieces of glass Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:31:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec3.19319.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk i store all my good small pieces in baskets under my work bench for future use ang ones too small i send for re-cycling. hope this helps. mary austin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 02:46:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:45:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!ElsieTurqman From: Elsie Turqman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: FWD: FW: VIRUS Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:45:18 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.104518.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I received this warning from two sources and am passing it on, feel free to zap without reading if so inclined. Elsie >>>Please read ASAP >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>WARNING!!!! If you receive an e-mail titled "JOIN THE CREW" DO NOT >>open >>it! It >>>will erase EVERYTHING on your hard drive. Send this warning out to >>as many >>>people as you can This is a new virus and not many people know >>about it. >>This >>>information was received on 10/28/97 from IBM, please share it with >> >>anyone >>that >>>might access the Internet. >>> >>>Also, if anyone receives mail entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" >>>This message appears to be a friendly letter asking you if you are >>>interested in a penpal, but by the time you read this letter, it is >> >>too >>>late. The Trojan horse virus will have already infected the boot >>sector >>>of your hard drive, destroying all of the data present. It is a >>>self-replicating virus, and once the message is read, it will >>>AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone who's e-mail address is >>present >>>in YOUR mailbox. This virus will DESTROY your hard drive and holds >> >>the >>>potential to DESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail is in your >>>in-box and who's mail is in their in-box and so on. >>> >>>Please, delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" as soon as >>you see >>it! >>>And pass this message along to all of your friends, relatives and >>the other >>>readers of the news groups and mailing lists which you are on so the >> >>they are >>>not hurt by this dangerous virus! >>> >>>WARNING!!!WARNING!!! This is a new virus going around in the last >>couple >>>of days. DO NOT open or even look at any mail that you get that >>says: >>>"Returned or Unable to Deliver" This virus will attach itself to >>your >>>computer components and render them unless. Immediately delete any >>mail >>>items that says this. AOL has said this is a very dangerous virus >>and >>>there is NO remedy for it at this time. >>> >>>Please be careful and forward this to all your on-line friends A.S.A. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 03:12:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:12:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: feline pattern Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:12:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec4.11221.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Oh Pat, thank you so much for the info. I would love to tell you what graphic format I need but I am a newbie on the computer and do not know what graphic format I need, or for that matter ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 03:18:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:18:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: feline pattern Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:17:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec4.11755.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk See how illiterate I am on the computer - I somehow sent the last note when I was trying to edit it (LOL). If you would want to tell me how to figure out my graphic format or would give me the website URL I could hunt for it myself. Thanks again! LElsbury@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 04:49:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:49:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!clipper1 From: clipper1@erols.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:51:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971204084531.2417c6c2@pop.erols.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I don't use PC's very much for graphics, so I can't advise on the programs you listed. However, I've used a shareware product called xview on various Unix boxes and it will 'pixelize', blur, 'find edges' and even create something akin to an embossed image from nearly picture. I don't know if this package is available for PC's though. I've been told that newer versions of Adobe Photoshop have similar features available. Yes, you have all probably guessed that I'm a geek. An engineer that did her first stained glass designs using the CAD software at work during my lunch breaks. Carol At 11:38 AM 12/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >At 12:06 PM 12/2/97 EST, you wrote: >>I had mentioned some months ago that we had bought the Glass Eye and were >>trying it out. > >There have been a couple of posts lately on design software (I presume >that's what GlassEye is). A couple of days ago, Linda Campbell mentioned: " >Either my PhotoDelux or Corel Printhouse has the capability of printing >just the outline of scanned or >imported pics and this makes a nice start for making patterns." > >That's very helpful, and I'd like to talk more about the capabilities of >various software programs for graphics, or specifically for stained glass. > >I want to go beyond the outline ... I want a program that will also allow >me to manipulate the size and color of the pixels ... so that I can take a >photo, scan it and create a "mosaic style" pattern. > >I've looked at all sorts of books and manuals for PhotoShop (which is too >expensive for me at this point, anyway) and it didn't seem as though their >filters would answer the problem, in any case. Indeed, it seemed their >filters would distort the pattern too much. Does anyone have experience >with PhotoShop to share? > >What about other programs that could go this step beyond a pattern outline? >Any experience or feedback, please? > >Thanks! > >Cheers, > >M.-J. > > > > > >*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*% >M.-J. Taylor >athena@netrox.net > >When you talk about your troubles, your ailments, your diseases, your hurts, >you give longer life to what makes you unhappy. Talking about your grievances >merely adds to those grievances. Give recognition only to what you desire. >Think and talk only about the good things that add to your enjoyment of your >work and life. If you don't talk about your grievances, you'll be delighted >to find them disappearing quickly. -- Thomas Dreier >*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 04:52:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:52:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: small pieces of glass Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:49:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971204065029.139f6300@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elizabeth, am still looking for someone to tell me exactly how you do this. A friend tried a few, and they ended up in lumps at the bottom. Looked like she hadn't fired hot enough, the lumps were fractured, so I assume she cooled it too fast, and it almost looked like they didn't want to run.... flux for glass??? Anyway, I would love to be able to tell her how to do it.... maybe the pieces where just too big...Meg At 02:49 AM 12/4/97 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Stephanie et all, > >I keep even the "itty-bitty" bits.... >Several local potters and pottery groups keep knocking on my door >asking for them, so I save these bits for them. They will use them as >glazes on their pottery. In this way I get acquainted with another >art-form I know only too little about. >My advice to you, look up where there is a local pottery class in >your area, contact the teacher and offer your "itty-bitty" bits. They >will be only too pleased to come and collect! Who knows, if you smile >sweetly enough, you might even get some kind of "trade" going in >return.... ;-) > >My Best >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > > As with many others, I keep almost all scraps >of glass. The pieces that are too small for anything at all, even >mosaics, I throw away. I keep a small paper bag on my workbench to >throw in the itty bitty scraps that I break off with my pliers, then >when I'm ready to throw the bag away, I wrap it up in a couple of >small plastic bags (like you get from the store) before putting in >the normal trash bag, to help keep any sharp edges from poking >through too bad. > >The scraps that may be big enough for mosaic use (which is a "some day I'll >learn to do mosaics" kind of thing), I sort into major colors and a >miscellaneous category. I put these scraps into old upright "kleenex" >boxes. They're free (after they're empty of course), and they work fine. I >also use a lot of the smaller scraps for free-form pins. Just grind the >edges smooth and leave it in whatever shape it happened to come off in, >wrap foil around the edge, and glue a pin back on it. These are great >freebies to throw in with an order (I only sell smaller gift-type items, >not window/door inserts, so they're a good freebie to give with a few >suncatchers or small panels). > >The larger scraps that can be used for small pattern pieces in the future >are kept in plastic 4-drawer-containers (like the "Vanities" line, which I >buy at Wal-Mart) sorted by color. I prefer the drawers rather than just >boxes, so I can pull out the drawer I want rather than having to take the >lid off a box. The drawers aren't see-through, but I have them labelled. > >Scraps which are too large for the drawers, starting at about 4" x 4", I >keep along with most of my other glass in metal vertical file holders that >I buy at the office supply - these are generally used in offices for >keeping file folders on desks. Most of the glass I buy is in the small to >medium size (usually not larger than 18" x 24"), and anything up to 12" x >12" or so fits fine in these file holders. The few larger sheets of glass >that I have are leaning against my workbench, on the side next to the wall. > >That was probably more than anyone wanted to know , but basically I keep >all but the ittiest bittiest of pieces. My definition of ittiest bittiest >is beginning to expand a little, though, as my kleenex boxes get full with >no day in sight that they'll be used! > >Steph ~ > >--- >Stephanie Hansen >Stained Glass Treasures/Dallas, TX >sgt@glasstreasures.com >NEW web site address: >http://glasstreasures.com/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde, Puntarenas COSTA RICA phone 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 05:35:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:34:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Thu, 04 Dec 97 08:31:18 EST Message-ID: <971204.083411.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<199712031808.NAA13474@mime4.prodigy.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk With Glass Eye, you can import a bitmap as a background, but you have to outline it yourself (like tracing over the lines you want to keep, only it takes a steady hand and good clicking skills). You can color in the sections, but frankly it doesn't look like stained glass when you do so. But it can help with developing color schemes. Dorothy K -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 07:10:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:08:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Morse Museum Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:16:02 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I had the distinct pleasure of touring the Morse Museum in Orlando this > past holiday weekend. My first time! I was impressed by Louis Tiffany's > stained glass work and designs (who wouldn't be?) and quite fascinated by > the layering of glass. How different one piece looks up close and from a > distance! Glad you enjoyed it ... remember, though, that unlike in today's craft world, where the named artist/craftsperson actually created the work in question (usually), Tiffany had 200+ women working for him who built the lamps. The other items the studio produced were also factory-made, though still made by hand, mind you. His paintings were his own. The studio was a *business ... and a big one. Tiffany's best skill was as a salesman to the wealthy. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 07:10:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:09:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD009D.08DFEBC0" Subject: RE: Filigree for Miniature Stained Glass Houses Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:59:46 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.75946.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD009D.08DFEBC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry to return your message so late.. I just finished 2 panels with = wheat.. I used the sheet copper foil.. Had no problems with soldering = it.. But I did do the wheat shafts last, and bareley touched the solder = to the lines.. I Do put a nice bead on the copper and do not make your = lines real small.. found that the small lines broke when cleaning, by = small I mean less than the thickness of a pattern line, hope this = works for you. Gloria -----Original Message----- From: Dawn [SMTP:dawnm@mustang.hwy66.com] Sent: Friday, November 21, 1997 8:34 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Filigree for Miniature Stained Glass Houses Hi Gloria, Thank you for your suggestion to use the copper foil sheets. I was worried about if they would stick to the glass adequately over time,=20 especially when they were dusted or cleaned. Have you had any problems with it wanting to come off? I know that some time back on the group someone suggested putting the glass piece on a damp washcloth when doing designs with a lot of solder so that the glass won't heat to the point of cracking. I = suppose that is what I would need to do in this instance, wouldn't I? Thanks for the help, Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD009D.08DFEBC0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjEMAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQAwAAAAUkU6IEZpbGlncmVlIGZvciBNaW5p YXR1cmUgU3RhaW5lZCBHbGFzcyBIb3VzZXMA5hABBYADAA4AAADNBwwABAAJADsALgAEAFoBASCA AwAOAAAAzQcMAAQACQA0ACAABABFAQEJgAEAIQAAAEZBREQxNkYzODQ2Q0QxMTE4MjFGNDQ0NTUz NTQwMDAwAO4GAQOQBgAACAAAIQAAAAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAu AAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBghosdrAC9AR4AcAABAAAAMAAAAFJFOiBGaWxpZ3JlZSBmb3IgTWlu aWF0dXJlIFN0YWluZWQgR2xhc3MgSG91c2VzAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9AKwdgvMW3ftshBHRgh9E RVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAASAAAAM2hvdW5kc0B1c2Fvci5uZXQA AAADAAYQ7w4YxQMABxA7BAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAU09SUllUT1JFVFVSTllPVVJNRVNTQUdFU09M QVRFSUpVU1RGSU5JU0hFRDJQQU5FTFNXSVRIV0hFQVRJVVNFRFRIRVNIRUVUQ09QUEVSRk9JTEhB RE5PUFJPQkxFTVNXSVRIUwAAAAACAQkQAQAAAM4EAADKBAAAMwcAAExaRnXfZh9IdwAKAQMB9yAC pAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxOHAoMAUA72cHJxMg/2Jn0KgAjIIDsJbzI1ZjUCgAqBdWMAUAsDYwMA QQtgbmcxMDMzLwunCrEKhAqAUwWwcnnQIHRvIAlwdAhwA6AKeQhhIAeBc2FnZQwgcxeAC2B0ZS4u giAZcEkganVzBUDWZguABABoCYAgEXAKsJhuZWwEIAPwdGgbIP8aYBkgGVEZoBnQGnEbUBjByxpg D8AgBaBwcASQGgCmbwMQGVFIYRqAbheAZRFAbwJgZW0bFRjgbDMEgQuAZyAbQBlRQnXTBUAZoGRp GoBkF4AccnsbgxyhYQGABCALYBngLLYgAHAagGIKwBrwZRdSvxSAGmIccx9TF2IccmwLgFsHkBvT RB5BIEFhHiBp+mMYwGIboBqAAiAcYx0V3yJyINEeMAVAAMBrGMAYE98k0xeRB0AY0ADAbB2yAhB+ dSKBG1AhcRxzKZIoxWLvA2AoURuBA6BjHqAAcB+h/SJQYhdQKvQZoAeAA5EeoN8EESphJrQbUCYQ ayTxBCD9JpBmGXAl4AqwAkAEkiTDeSJQIGgdIC7DGxEFsGuvBCACEAXAGBEuFlRHCQHPBzAWWgr0 JNAzNgFAFRAnFkEDYBkwY3QQhDE21CAtNfJPBRBnC4ApUf5NGHQ18xZWNQQWQwsxNQZgaS0xNDQB QCTQMRw4MAFADNA5k2IgRhUDYToMg2IP4ERhdwEDoFtTTVRQOmQxO8FtQG0Z0RVhLmggd3k2Ni4F oG1dfxZVOsAGYAIwOyc64CCgYeJ5IlBOb3YesCZQBcAEMjEiUDE5OTcggDg6MzQgUE095xRUbzsn ZyIRc0BijyogNnA9kj3odWJqNTHxOydSZTo60AMQNmAJ0b0x400aIRkgCHAYwFMBkP8k4RqAMtBC sR3gCGAPsA9AzzevOLk0VBXrSGlHMTLy6iwWWlQuYWsYAjHmBcDYc3VnGLAZ4GkmoheAvxwhJsod ghykJRAZgnciIP8WVDGRCIEagAGgCGAFQAaQ9xxiF1AxkHUfYBjQTfAvEE8kVkKTImABAHF1GSFs /xdQP9EkQQdxIlAWVAeQHUB+YwcxVGEsE1IEBJAYwGT/GdEacQWxLGMJgBlhHfA/4OdMsw+AUVFu eRZUHmwbQH9QUQIwH6IXcT2hGMAvkGbuPxZaGaAvIG8H4CpjGOB/W8FU4iKhUuEmpQnACGBw/12j AiAYwU2kGnEloVsiFlR9U0hwCJAmISahJeA8YG37X1BQYWgsYCgAG2MDoCDQ9x+iAQAAkGcGMRsz JeBjUX8vgRZUI/UY4SpnU4QxkG7uJwVAIVMkVnBkAWViHQC+cl5hH6FQE02QHTBvD7D/YQYhcTFi KnJQQVJjGuAcQv8XgCDRC4AxNAuAPOImICJQ+1JTZ7JJXCtMYzHUHHIaYLxscEuVO7IWVDdYRgWx /U2QYgT0TgIPcRVwB5AiUP8LUBugToEAwAMRF3BFMEKT/i0JcFQQTdFC7kHgGNAJ8P9scySUIjJ4 E3QPQq8WgQcQ7Q9waT/gU8F2dIEBoB6gPyJgBUEVElJwMOACQHA6qC8vd30QLkL3L3lzXzSjUnAW SxZUEgEAgCAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzBgLNAaqwC9AUAACDBgLNAaqwC9 AQsAAYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA EIUAAAAAAAADAAOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4ABIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsA BoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAHgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUA AAAAAAADAAiACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4ACYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAAqACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAA AAAAHgALgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJF OiAAAAAAAwANNP03AACbAw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD009D.08DFEBC0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 07:10:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:08:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: FWD: FW: VIRUS Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:16:02 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I received this warning from two sources and am passing it on, feel free to > zap without reading if so inclined. It's a hoax, Elsie. Email can't zap your drive. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 07:19:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:18:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: torchiere lamps Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:55:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.45518.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The best lampmaking book I have run across is "The Lampmaking Handbook" by Joe Porcelli. It gives clear, precise directions for all aspects of stained glass lampmaking, including attaching the ring. The IGGA (International Guild of Glass Artists) probably has it in their library of glass books for sale. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 07:20:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:19:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: feline pattern Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:55:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.45526.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I had a couple of tea pots in the shape of the cat raising its paw in greeting. If you cannot find a pattern, email me privately and I can draw you one. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 07:26:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:24:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4 From: Beveler 4 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: sawing zinc Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:15:00 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec4.15150.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk As Bryon has mentioned be careful while cutting came on a saw . I have had one bad experience with this. A piece shot off of the saw and hit my wife who was more than a few feet away from the saw just happened to be in the line of fire and the piece actually stuck into her skin. I have always worn glasses when cutting came but this made me also think about where I was standing in relationship to the blade direction . I always stand to the backside of the saw now and make sure that no one else is in the line of fire.Beveler4(Stan) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 07:53:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:52:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:02:21 -0600 Message-ID: <199712041550.JAA11139@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >Historically, I am a pencil and paper person myself. However I see >quite clearly the relevance of CAD. I also have seen the light that I >myself have to learn it Hi Elisabeth, Me too. I am a absolute beginner when it comes to computer design. I bet there are many bungi folk that are experienced with these tools and I hope to learn from them on or off list. . The only graphics program I have is *paint* that came with Win95. Obviously the more I learn about the program the more I'll be able to get it to do some real work. I do all my layouts in metric...... its way easier.. especially when dividing up an area for geometic stuff IMNSHO 1 inch = 25cm (close enough) Heres the numbers for a current poject Two triangles separated by a 100cm (4") vertical mullion the long leg is the vertical 600cm (24") the other legs are equal lenght 425cm (17") if I use the line tool and hold down the shift key I will automatically get the proper 90 and 45 degree angles ..neat I know I can't get get it full size I just want a scale drawing for sketching. I guess what I'm trying to say is how do you measure lines with *paint*....if you can at all. Your humble student Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 08:10:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:07:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Angel Panel Date: Thu, 04 Dec 97 10:11:07 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec4.18117.0> References: <<1997Dec2.61634.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Susan, Did you find an angel pattern yet? Merry Go Round in Springfield, Missouri specializes in some angel patterns they design. If you want to contact them their phone no. is 417-882-7746, and their address is 3235 E. Sunshine St., #B, Springfield, MO 65804. I recently saw in a catalog (Delphi's I believe) where they are beginning to carry some of Merry Go Round's angel patterns as well. Good luck with your search, Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 08:13:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:10:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Glasangels From: Glasangels To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass Workshop Plans Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:04:04 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec4.1644.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Keli, Thanks for the info...I'll see if I can track down that issue..Seems to me I remember something about that. Marilyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 08:14:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:12:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: sawing zinc Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:06:57 -0500 Message-ID: <199712041605.LAA14879@dns.city-net.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks to all of you who have replied. I got the mitre box for sawing zinc from Morton. I just need to get a hacksaw with more teeth. I've tried to use one with 24 teeth/inch, and that is very cumbersome and not exact at all. That will be my first try, if that doesn't work for me, I'll try the table saw idea, except I will be VERY careful. Thanks for all your good advice!!! Dany ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 09:28:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:27:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts From: Melanie Dunstan To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: VIRUS; G'wan, have a laugh Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 01:25:27 +0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.92527.0> References: <<1997Dec4.104518.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services Precedence: bulk Elsie Turqman wrote: >=20 > I received this warning from two sources and am passing it on, feel fre= e to > zap without reading if so inclined. > --------- Gidday Y'all! Elsie, please don't think I'm having a shot at you (truly I'm not) but this reminds me of a forwarded message I got this week..... (from a mate in USA - and believe me she *did* sign it LOL!) I don't want to stir up a pig's nest here, but its ROFL stuff. ( Becky wrote:=20 > I had to send this cuz you either need to read it - or you know tons of > people who DO need to read it LOL)..... What You Know About Viruses - Columbine ******************************************************************** WARNING, CAUTION, DANGER, AND BEWARE! Gullibility Virus Spreading over the Internet! ******************************************************************** WASHINGTON, D.C.--The Institute for the Investigation of Irregular Internet Phenomena announced today that many Internet users are becoming infected by a new virus that causes them to believe without question every groundless story, legend, and dire warning that shows up in their inbox or on their browser. The Gullibility Virus, as it is called, apparently makes people believe and forward copies of silly hoaxes relating to cookie recipes, email viruses, taxes on modems, and get-rich-quick schemes [perhaps conspiracy theories should be included here--C's note]. "These are not just readers of tabloids or people who buy lottery tickets based on fortune cookie numbers," a spokesman said. "Most are otherwise normal people, who would laugh at the samestories if told to them by a stranger on a streetcorner." However, once these same people become infected with the Gullibility Virus, they believe anything they read on the Internet. "My immunity to tall tales and bizarre claims is all gone," reported one weeping victim. "I believe every warning message and sick child story my friends forward to me, even though most of the messages are anonymous." Another victim, now in remission, added, "When I first heard about Good Times, I just accepted it without question. After all, there were dozens of other recipients on the mail header, so I thought the virus must be true." It was a long time, the victim said, before she could stand up at a Hoaxees Anonymous meeting and state, "My name is Jane, and I've been hoaxed." Now, however, she is spreading the word. "Challenge and check whatever you read," she says. Internet users are urged to examine themselves for symptoms of the virus, which include the following: =95the willingness to believe improbable stories without thinking=20 =95the urge to forward multiple copies of such stories to others=20 =95a lack of desire to take three minutes to check to see if a story is true=20 T. C. is an example of someone recently infected. He told one reporter, "I read on the Net that the major ingredient in almost all shampoos makes your hair fall out, so I've stopped using shampoo." When told about the Gullibility Virus, T. C. said he would stop reading email, so that he would not become infected. Anyone with symptoms like these is urged to seek help immediately. Experts recommend that at the first feelings of gullibility, Internet users rush to their favorite search engine and look up the item tempting them to thoughtless credence. Most hoaxes, legends, and tall tales have been widely discussed and exposed by the Internet community. Courses in critical thinking are also widely available, and there is online help from many sources, including:=20 =95Department of Energy Computer Incident Advisory Capability at=20 =20 =95Symantec Anti Virus Research Center at=20 =20 =95McAfee Associates Virus Hoax List at=20 =20 =95Dr. Solomons Hoax Page at=20 =20 =95The Urban Legends Web Site at=20 =20 =95Urban Legends Reference Pages at=20 =20 =95Datafellows Hoax Warnings at=20 =20 Those people who are still symptom free can help inoculate themselves against the Gullibility Virus by reading some good material on sources, such as: =95Evaluating Internet Research Sources at=20 =20 =95Evaluation of Information Sources at=20 =20 =95Bibliography on Evaluating Internet Resources at=20 =20 Lastly, as a public service, Internet users can help stamp out the Gullibility Virus by sending copies of this message to anyone who forwards them a hoax. ******************************************************************* This message is so important, we're sending it anonymously! Forward it to all your friends right away! Don't think about it! This is not a chain letter! This story is true! Don't check it out! This story is so timely, there is no date on it! This story is so important, we're using lots of exclamation points! For every message you forward to some unsuspecting person, the Home for the Hopelessly Gullible will donate ten cents to itself. (If you wonder how the Home will know you are forwarding these messages all over creation, you're obviously thinking too much.) =20 ******************************************************************* ACT NOW! DON'T DELAY! LIMITED TIME! NOT SOLD IN ANY STORE! ****************************************** =20 --=20 Melanie Dunstan, in Perth, Australia Allcrafts for Unusual Crafts http://www.ozemail.com.au/~allcraft Psst! Ask about joining CraftsPages perpetual Craft Fair! Pass It On! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 09:39:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:32:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wepop.mediaone.net!slally From: Sean Lally To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: FWD: FW: VIRUS Date: Thu, 4 Dec 97 07:31:58 -0800 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I received this warning from two sources and am passing it on, feel free to >zap without reading if so inclined. Thanks for the effort, but this sort of thing is usually a hoax. You can check http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html to see what they have to say about it next time you recieve email similar to what you recently recieved. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 09:46:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:46:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: FWD: FW: VIRUS Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:43:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.54322.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > I received this warning from two sources and am passing it on, feel free to > > zap without reading if so inclined. > > It's a hoax, Elsie. Email can't zap your drive. > > Albert > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass and besides they would never warn you like that, the element of suprise is more fun... :) mostly it's a way for you to chain letter spam everybody. there's an electronic company that falls for this everytime one comes out. then they send this message to everyone on there listserv... kind of annoying... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 10:28:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:25:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: softcom.net!mthaxton From: "Melissa Thaxton" To: "bungi" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Add me to the list Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:26:20 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.22620.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BD009F.0FE04D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Glenna, I've only been off the list for a little while. I = thought I could make it through the holidays without all you guys, I was = wrong. Please put me back on the list. Thanks, Melissa mthaxton@softcom.net ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BD009F.0FE04D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Glenna,
          &nbs= p;    =20 I've only been off the list for a little while.  I thought I could = make it=20 through the holidays without all you guys, I was wrong.
          &nbs= p;    =20 Please put me back on the list.
Thanks,
          &nbs= p;=20 Melissa   mthaxton@softcom.net
------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BD009F.0FE04D00-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 11:04:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:03:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 04 Dec 97 13:53:12 EST Message-ID: <971204.140233.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Those of you who do craft fairs will know what I'm talking about. Someone is standing there, admiring your work, looking it over, saying how beautiful it is, but at last they sigh and say, "But my house is country. You know, wood and dried flowers. I can't get any stained glass. But I really like that." Do you want to stomp on something and say "Are you MARRIED to your decorator?" We decided for next year, we're going to make up a bunch of new floral designs and put together a part of our exhibit labeled something like "Country Floral. Designs to complement your country home" Can you guess that "country" is real popular around here? -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 11:19:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:17:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Add me to the list Date: Thu, 04 Dec 97 13:21:23 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec4.212123.0> References: <<1997Dec4.22620.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hey Melissa, This is Dawn. I know what you mean. I was sooooo busy this summer I unsu= bscribed for awhile. But now I'm back it's like being reunited with 300 = close friends! Now that it's winter and dark so early, and now that I = once again have all the extra motivation and inspiration supplied by this= group, I'm back to glass "work" (fun). So since it's Christmas- present= -time I'm back to throwing a quick supper on the table and running down = to my workshop in the basement where I hide out working till 2:30 or 3:00= in the morning. (I just can't seem to stop once I have a project so clo= se to completion. I can't wait to see the end product.) What kind of interesting Christmas projects is everyone out there doing? Now to the important non-glass part of the message...how's your baby doin= g, and how are you managing to get any glass work done? (Okay, well, it = is slightly glass related.) Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 11:23:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:22:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Morse Museum Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:08:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971204140817.0072b57c@pop.netrox.net> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 10:16 AM 12/4/97 +0000, you wrote: > >> I had the distinct pleasure of touring the Morse Museum in Orlando this >> past holiday weekend. My first time! I was impressed by Louis Tiffany's >> stained glass work and designs (who wouldn't be?) and quite fascinated by >> the layering of glass. How different one piece looks up close and from a >> distance! > >Glad you enjoyed it ... remember, though, that unlike in today's >craft world, where the named artist/craftsperson actually created the >work in question (usually), Tiffany had 200+ women working for him >who built the lamps. The other items the studio produced were also >factory-made, though still made by hand, mind you. His paintings >were his own. The studio was a *business ... and a big one. >Tiffany's best skill was as a salesman to the wealthy. The museum docent was not quite clear about this ... she rather implied the Tiffany made everything ... but the labeling of the individual pieces is very clear. Most say simply Tiffany Studios. Some do bear his name, and some were marked as designed by him, but not executed, some were marked as both designed and made by him ... Thanks for the input. Best, M.-J. *%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%& "When you see a worthy person, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy person, then examine your inner self." -- Confucius *%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%&*%& ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 12:10:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:09:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Christmas was RE: Add me to the list Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:11:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.101119.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Husband is laid off and I'm making most of my Christmas presents.=20 Nightlights for the girls here at work. One with a slab of geode on the = front. Handheld vanity mirrors for my sisters, my own design. Some hummingbirds = and lilies. A ship in a bottle for my brother. I'ts three layers thick, with the = boat layered between two clear bottle shaped layers with a glass cork in = the end and set upright on a glass stand. He's in the ship repair = business so it's up his alley. Can't wait til after Christmas so I can start on my own projects, = though. What's everyone else doiong? Linda Campbell=20 Dawn said: What kind of interesting Christmas projects is everyone out there doing? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 12:42:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:42:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Thu, 04 Dec 97 14:13:06 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec4.22136.0> References: <<1997Dec3.12185.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Pat, On my "what-I-plan-to-do-while-it's-freezing-cold-outside list" for the = winter is to learn to use Corel Draw to design for stained glass, and mod= ify existing cartoons. I would be extremely grateful if you could give = me more information about that issue of Corel magazine. If you locate = your copy and would be willing to send me a copy of the article, I would = gladly reimburse you for your expenses, postage and "handling". Many thanks, Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 13:16:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:14:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike From: Mike Simpson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:58:38 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <199712041958.TAA01300@jackel.demon.co.uk> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971204084531.2417c6c2@pop.erols.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello Carol, It's nice to know that I am not the only unix geek who does stained glass. Recently I have been using a program called ImageMagick which does most of what xv does with the addition that it understands PCD files from a photo-CD, only problem is that is miserably slow. You can get it from:- ftp://ftp.wizards.dupont.com/pub/ImageMagick/ImageMagick-3.9.2.tar.gz As far as I know there is no Windows version although there is a Mac version, a VMS version and innumerable unix versions. For M.-J. and other Windows users, the shareware program Paint Shop Pro has most of the features that you seem to want. From what I have been told, the earlier versions of Corel Draw such as Corel Draw 3 have almost everything that you could want and are still available and a lot cheaper than the later ones. Mike Simpson. > > > I don't use PC's very much for graphics, so I can't advise on the programs > you listed. However, I've used a shareware product called xview on various > Unix boxes and it will 'pixelize', blur, 'find edges' and even create > something akin to an embossed image from nearly picture. I don't know if > this package is available for PC's though. I've been told that newer > versions of Adobe Photoshop have similar features available. > > Yes, you have all probably guessed that I'm a geek. An engineer that did her > first stained glass designs using the CAD software at work during my lunch > breaks. > > Carol > > At 11:38 AM 12/3/97 -0500, you wrote: > >At 12:06 PM 12/2/97 EST, you wrote: > >>I had mentioned some months ago that we had bought the Glass Eye and were > >>trying it out. > > > >There have been a couple of posts lately on design software (I presume > >that's what GlassEye is). A couple of days ago, Linda Campbell mentioned: " > >Either my PhotoDelux or Corel Printhouse has the capability of printing > >just the outline of scanned or > >imported pics and this makes a nice start for making patterns." > > > >That's very helpful, and I'd like to talk more about the capabilities of > >various software programs for graphics, or specifically for stained glass. > > > >I want to go beyond the outline ... I want a program that will also allow > >me to manipulate the size and color of the pixels ... so that I can take a > >photo, scan it and create a "mosaic style" pattern. > > > >I've looked at all sorts of books and manuals for PhotoShop (which is too > >expensive for me at this point, anyway) and it didn't seem as though their > >filters would answer the problem, in any case. Indeed, it seemed their > >filters would distort the pattern too much. Does anyone have experience > >with PhotoShop to share? > > > >What about other programs that could go this step beyond a pattern outline? > >Any experience or feedback, please? > > > >Thanks! > > > >Cheers, > > > >M.-J. > > > > > > > > > > > >*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*% > >M.-J. Taylor > >athena@netrox.net > > > >When you talk about your troubles, your ailments, your diseases, your hurts, > >you give longer life to what makes you unhappy. Talking about your grievances > >merely adds to those grievances. Give recognition only to what you desire. > >Think and talk only about the good things that add to your enjoyment of your > >work and life. If you don't talk about your grievances, you'll be delighted > >to find them disappearing quickly. -- Thomas Dreier > >*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 14:28:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:25:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Add me to the list Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:23:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.122319.0> References: <<1997Dec4.212123.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dawn wrote: > > Hey Melissa, > > This is Dawn. I know what you mean. I was sooooo busy this summer I unsu= > bscribed for awhile. But now I'm back it's like being reunited with 300 = > close friends! Now that it's winter and dark so early, and now that I = > once again have all the extra motivation and inspiration supplied by this= > group, I'm back to glass "work" (fun). So since it's Christmas- present= > -time I'm back to throwing a quick supper on the table and running down = > to my workshop in the basement where I hide out working till 2:30 or 3:00= > in the morning. (I just can't seem to stop once I have a project so clo= > se to completion. I can't wait to see the end product.) > > What kind of interesting Christmas projects is everyone out there doing? > > Now to the important non-glass part of the message...how's your baby doin= > g, and how are you managing to get any glass work done? (Okay, well, it = > is slightly glass related.) > > Dawn > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it'll be posted on my page sometime, but i'm making gifts for my co-workers and bosses. basically boxes. for the bosses i'm making a 4x5 box with a drawer, and a 5 piece lid, with a shell in the lid. the other's are getting a simpler box, with 2 shells on the lid. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 14:33:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:33:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nwu.edu!alansing From: Amy Lansing To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 16:31:33 -0600 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971204163133.0073ef6c@merle.acns.nwu.edu> References: <<1997Dec3.12185.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Pat, I'd actually like to know more about this as well. If you prefer, my e-mail address is: alansing@nwu.edu At 02:13 PM 12/4/97 PST, you wrote: >Pat, > >On my "what-I-plan-to-do-while-it's-freezing-cold-outside list" for the = >winter is to learn to use Corel Draw to design for stained glass, and mod= >ify existing cartoons. I would be extremely grateful if you could give = >me more information about that issue of Corel magazine. If you locate = >your copy and would be willing to send me a copy of the article, I would = >gladly reimburse you for your expenses, postage and "handling". >Many thanks, >Dawn > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Amy Lansing Deputy Project Coordinator Psycho-Legal Studies Northwestern University Medical School 710 N. Lake Shore Drive, Suite #900 Chicago, IL 60611 Office: (312) 503-3500 FAX: (312) 503-3535 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 14:43:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:42:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire From: "Doug Scale" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: VIRUS; G'wan, have a laugh Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:41:23 -0500 Message-ID: <199712042247.RAA13722@sleepy.ebtech.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Melanie Dunstan > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: VIRUS; G'wan, have a laugh > Date: Thursday, December 04, 1997 12:25 PM > > Elsie Turqman wrote: > >=20 > > I received this warning from two sources and am passing it on, feel fre= > e to > > zap without reading if so inclined. > > ( Becky wrote:=20 > > I had to send this cuz you either need to read it - or you know tons of > > people who DO need to read it LOL)..... > > > What You Know About Viruses - Columbine > ******************************************************************** > WARNING, CAUTION, DANGER, AND BEWARE! > Gullibility Virus Spreading over the Internet! > ******************************************************************** Melanie, I have just received a copy of the latest 1998 Webster's dictionary. This is the Canadian version but I would expect it to be the same "Down Under". Apparently the word "Gullible" has been removed from the dictionary. Only assuming Gullibility would follow suit!! Doug Scale ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 14:44:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:43:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ideal.jf.intel.com!lynice From: "L. Spangler" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Grinder Bits Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:39:44 -0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.143944.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have never replaced the bit on my Diamond Tech Power Max grinder and I'm looking at all the options in a catalog. My current bit measure 7/8" in diameter. The catalog offers 1/4", 3/4", and 1". 1. Does this mean the catalog doesn't offer the one I currently have, or (as in buying wood) is the one I have really *called* a 1" (or 3/4"?)? 2. I see the descriptions "cap bit", "cap fast bit", "fast bit", "reducing bit", are various combination thereof. I can make a guess at "reducing", but what do those other words mean in relation to a grinder bit? 3. I would like to upgrade this grinder with the beveling kit. Does the bevels it can make come out looking like the kind you buy or is the beveled part "frosty". I've searched the archive and found an interesting archive on bits freezing onto the shaft and how to prevent it, but no answers to my questions. Thanks, L. Spangler ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 15:20:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:19:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gulf.net!psyche From: Kirsten To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:24:31 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.112431.0> References: <<971204.140233.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > Those of you who do craft fairs will know what I'm talking about. > > Someone is standing there, admiring your work, looking it over, > saying how beautiful it is, but at last they sigh and say, "But my house is > country. You know, wood and dried flowers. I can't get any stained > glass. But I really like that." Do you want to stomp on something > and say "Are you MARRIED to your decorator?" We decided for next year, we're > going to make up a bunch of new floral designs and put together a part of > our exhibit labeled something like "Country Floral. Designs to complement > your country home" > Can you guess that "country" is real popular around here? > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Make sure you use those God awful french blue and mauve colors. Eeick!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 16:48:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:47:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:30:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.133036.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Dorothy- It's called good marketing and it's why Tiffany is more well-known = than LaFarge. Good thing too - who would want to name their baby girl LaFarge? ;-) Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 17:30:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:29:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: earthlink.net!jeksac From: John Keller To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:33:59 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.133359.0> References: <<971204.140233.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Admin Kit Investigator Precedence: bulk Would that be martha stewart country? linn mail wrote: > > Those of you who do craft fairs will know what I'm talking about. > > Someone is standing there, admiring your work, looking it over, > saying how beautiful it is, but at last they sigh and say, "But my house is > country. You know, wood and dried flowers. I can't get any stained > glass. But I really like that." Do you want to stomp on something > and say "Are you MARRIED to your decorator?" We decided for next year, we're > going to make up a bunch of new floral designs and put together a part of > our exhibit labeled something like "Country Floral. Designs to complement > your country home" > Can you guess that "country" is real popular around here? > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 17:40:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:40:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: No mail Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:40:15 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec5.14015.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Check the archives for all of the tons of postings. You've been missing out on alot. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 18:07:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:05:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cape.com!sjb From: "Susan Jordan Bennett" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Angel Panel Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:30:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.15309.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dawn, I did find a pattern, but I'd love to check this source out as well. Thanks very much! Susan -----Original Message----- From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, December 04, 1997 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Angel Panel >Susan, > >Did you find an angel pattern yet? >Merry Go Round in Springfield, Missouri specializes in some >angel patterns they design. If you want to contact them their phone no. >is 417-882-7746, and their address is 3235 E. Sunshine St., #B, >Springfield, MO 65804. > >I recently saw in a catalog (Delphi's I believe) where they are beginning >to carry some of Merry Go Round's angel patterns as well. > >Good luck with your search, >Dawn >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 19:04:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:04:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:06:26 +0000 Message-ID: <199712042130.PAA04775@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dorothy, Why not give them something a little more "country" like a pair of cowboy boots or a longhorn skull. I have patterns for both if you'd like. My West Texas Cowboy relatives love the cowboy boots! Don > From: mail > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Gatewayed mail message > Date: Thu, 04 Dec 97 13:53:12 EST > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > Those of you who do craft fairs will know what I'm talking about. > > Someone is standing there, admiring your work, looking it over, > saying how beautiful it is, but at last they sigh and say, "But my house is > country. You know, wood and dried flowers. I can't get any stained > glass. But I really like that." Do you want to stomp on something > and say "Are you MARRIED to your decorator?" We decided for next year, we're > going to make up a bunch of new floral designs and put together a part of > our exhibit labeled something like "Country Floral. Designs to complement > your country home" > Can you guess that "country" is real popular around here? > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 19:25:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:25:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: VIRUS; G'wan, have a laugh Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:27:27 +0000 Message-ID: <199712042151.PAA04795@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk WARNING, CAUTION, DANGER, AND BEWARE! Gullibility Virus Spreading over the Internet! ******************************************************************** WASHINGTON, D.C.--The Institute for the Investigation of Irregular Internet Phenomena announced today that many Internet users are becoming infected by a new virus that causes them to believe without question every groundless story, legend, and dire warning that shows up in their in box or on their browser. The Gullibility Virus, as it is called, apparently makes people believe and forward copies of silly hoaxes relating to cookie recipes, email viruses, taxes on modems, and get-rich-quick schemes [perhaps conspiracy theories should be included here--C's note]. "These are not just readers of tabloids or people who buy lottery tickets based on fortune cookie numbers," a spokesman said. "Most are otherwise normal people, who would laugh at the same stories if told to them by a stranger on a street corner." However, once these same people become infected with the Gullibility Virus, they believe anything they read on the Internet. "My immunity to tall tales and bizarre claims is all gone," reported one weeping victim. "I believe every warning message and sick child story my friends forward to me, even though most of the messages are anonymous." Another victim, now in remission, added, "When I first heard about Good Times, I just accepted it without question. After all, there were dozens of other recipients on the mail header, so I thought the virus must be true." It was a long time, the victim said, before she could stand up at a Hoaxees Anonymous meeting and state, "My name is Jane, and I've been hoaxed." Now, however, she is spreading the word. "Challenge and check whatever you read," she says. Internet users are urged to examine themselves for symptoms of the virus, which include the following: the willingness to believe improbable stories without thinking the urge to forward multiple copies of such stories to others a lack of desire to take three minutes to check to see if a story is true T. C. is an example of someone recently infected. He told one reporter, "I read on the Net that the major ingredient in almost all shampoos makes your hair fall out, so I've stopped using shampoo." When told about the Gullibility Virus, T. C. said he would stop reading email, so that he would not become infected. Anyone with symptoms like these is urged to seek help immediately. Experts recommend that at the first feelings of gullibility, Internet users rush to their favorite search engine and look up the item tempting them to thoughtless credence. Most hoaxes, legends, and tall tales have been widely discussed and exposed by the Internet community. Courses in critical thinking are also widely available, and there is online help from many sources, including: Department of Energy Computer Incident Advisory Capability at Symantec Anti Virus Research Center at McAfee Associates Virus Hoax List at Dr. Solomons Hoax Page at The Urban Legends Web Site at Urban Legends Reference Pages at=20 Datafellows Hoax Warnings at Those people who are still symptom free can help inoculate themselves against the Gullibility Virus by reading some good material on sources, such as: Evaluating Internet Research Sources at Evaluation of Information Sources at Bibliography on Evaluating Internet Resources at Lastly, as a public service, Internet users can help stamp out the Gullibility Virus by sending copies of this message to anyone who forwards them a hoax. ******************************************************************* This message is so important, we're sending it anonymously! Forward it to all your friends right away! Don't think about it! This is not a chain letter! This story is true! Don't check it out! This story is so timely, there is no date on it! This story is so important, we're using lots of exclamation points! For every message you forward to some unsuspecting person, the Home for the Hopelessly Gullible will donate ten cents to itself. (If you wonder how the Home will know you are forwarding these messages all over creation, you're obviously thinking too much.) ******************************************************************* ACT NOW! DON'T DELAY! LIMITED TIME! NOT SOLD IN ANY STORE! ****************************************** Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 4 21:43:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:42:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: VIRUS; G'wan, have a laugh Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:53:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec4.165345.0> References: <<1997Dec4.104518.0>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Melanie, Thanks for a good laugh!! I've forwarded it to some friends, who will get a kick out of it, I'm sure. My guess is that the people who start the hoaxes are the people who aren't quite smart enough to start a virus, so they have to come up with something! Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 02:00:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:59:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: torchiere lamps Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:55:16, -0500 Message-ID: <199712050955.EAA12142@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Kathy wrote: Hi folks, I recently bought 2 torchiere lamp bases and a beautiful floor lamp and found I had no idea about how to build lamps for them. (I've never seen a finished one and have no glass shops ANYWHERE in my area.) I purchased the Shade Parade book of patterns and now have the data but I have never seen "attaching rings" for sale in any of my catalogs. Does anybody have any suggestions? I live in a very small town in West Virginia along the Ohio valley, so I feel mail order is my only option. Thanks! Kathy Bob writes, You might try Whitmore-Durgin at (800) 225-0380. They have lots of lamp things that may or may not be the right size for torchiere lamps. Measure the size you need before you call so they can help you. Ask for a copy of their catalog which is a hoot in itself. Good luck, Bob PS: I have their catalog from 1994 and it lists vibratory tumblers for making "beach glass". Could this be my way to get rich? Think so based on prices given in a previous post. At least it would be a fun way to get rid of small pieces of glass. ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 03:54:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:52:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: location Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:48:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.14823.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971129082537.25bf9b70@sol.racsa.co.cr>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Meg, Went to check out your site. Actually, I was hoping that the Noah's ark might be on there. After hearing you talk about it, I wanted to see it. That sure looks like a beautiful place to live. Still trying to figure out how you have time for glass with homeschooling, the bakery, and the stable. Wow! Let us know if you get more pictures up! Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 04:48:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:46:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: how to "sign" your projects Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:41:07 -0500 Message-ID: <199712051240.HAA14541@dns.city-net.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I was looking at Mike Savad's fishlamp and was truly impressed by its wonderful originality and innovativity (is this a word?) and as I am getting better at doing stained glass by pattern, I have a few ideas in my head that I would like to transform into my own "originals", and that brought up a question... How do you sign your original creations? I was in a store the other day and saw that someone had engraved their name freestyle, and it truly looked awful. Maybe engraving with a stencil? Thanks for any comments, Dany Daniela Birkelbach Software Consultant dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany *********************************************************************** "640K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates, 1981 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 04:50:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:48:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: torchiere lamps Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 07:48:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971205074853.0072665c@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 07:10 PM 12/3/97 -0800, Zor Prime wrote: > >I recently bought 2 torchiere lamp bases and a beautiful floor lamp and >found I had no idea about how to build lamps for them. (I've never seen >a finished one and have no glass shops ANYWHERE in my area.) I purchased >the Shade Parade book of patterns and now have the data but I have never >seen "attaching rings" for sale in any of my catalogs. Does anybody have >any suggestions? I live in a very small town in West Virginia along the >Ohio valley, so I feel mail order is my only option. Franklin Art Glass in Columbus Ohio has 3 sizes of brass fitter rings in their catalog used to "secure mini lampshades onto bases and sconces". The sizes are 2 1/4" 3 1/4" and 4". Stock numbers for them are H9450, H9451, and H9452. Their 800 # is 1-800-848-7683. You shouldn't be all that far from them and they ship out immediately, usually UPS in Ohio delivers the very next day. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran Ohio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 05:30:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 05:28:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:30:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.33045.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Don't confuse country and western. The two are not the same. Most = country is somehow frilly and accessories need to be replaced frequently = (cause they are so hard to dust and clean)=20 Western on the other hand last forever, cause nobody cares if it's = dusty. Go for the country, they spend more money, if this local is any = indication. They all have to have the latest piece of glue-gunned, = wooden, silk flower, cheezy fabric whatchamacallit. Now, if we could tap = into that market.... Linda Campbell Don Wrote: Dorothy, Why not give them something a little more "country" like a pair of=20 cowboy boots or a longhorn skull. I have patterns for both if you'd=20 like. My West Texas Cowboy relatives love the cowboy boots! Don ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 06:10:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:09:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Gatewayed mail message Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:11:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199712050835.CAA05164@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Don't confuse country and western. The two are not the same. Most = > country is somehow frilly and accessories need to be replaced frequently = > (cause they are so hard to dust and clean)=20 > > Linda Campbell > > Sounds like you could almost stick a dried posey between two pieces of window glass, add a blue border and soak 'em for $50. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 06:14:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:13:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: country glass Date: Fri, 05 Dec 97 09:07:19 EST Message-ID: <971205.091234.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Yes, this is Martha Stewart country, bless her little heart. She lives in Connecticut, you know. "Breakfast at LaFarge's" ? Here's the other thing about country (that drives my husband crazy). $20 is too much for a suncatcher that will light up their window for years (okay, maybe they really didn't like it, but they look at the price and shake their heads), but then you see them carrying a dried flower and statice and whatever wreath that you know cost $50 and will probably only last 6 months....(not to malign the people who make these. I have seen some lovely wreaths). I'm done with fairs for the year and so blowing off steam and thinking about where we want to go next year. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 06:48:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:48:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinder Bits Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:45:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.44532.0> References: <<1997Dec4.143944.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk L. Spangler wrote: > > I have never replaced the bit on my Diamond Tech Power Max grinder and I'm > looking at all the options in a catalog. My current bit measure 7/8" in > diameter. The catalog offers 1/4", 3/4", and 1". > > 1. Does this mean the catalog doesn't offer the one I currently have, or > (as in buying wood) is the one I have really *called* a 1" (or 3/4"?)? > > 2. I see the descriptions "cap bit", "cap fast bit", "fast bit", "reducing > bit", are various combination thereof. I can make a guess at "reducing", > but what do those other words mean in relation to a grinder bit? > > 3. I would like to upgrade this grinder with the beveling kit. Does the > bevels it can make come out looking like the kind you buy or is the beveled > part "frosty". > > I've searched the archive and found an interesting archive on bits freezing > onto the shaft and how to prevent it, but no answers to my questions. > > Thanks, > L. Spangler > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, i'm not sure about the definitions, for an inland, the standard bit is what i use. i use the 1", it grinds faster then the 3/4". the bit could be siezed on there, the best way to see is to loosen the screw and pull on the bit. hopefully it comes right off. if it does'nt, use something like liquid wrench to remove it. i'm really not sure since it never happened to me. before you put the new bit on, be sure to put some antiseize compound on the shaft. i don't have the bevel kit for my grinder yet. but it should come out ok, providing you allow enough time between steps in the grits. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 07:03:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:02:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: how to "sign" your projects Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:59:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.45950.0> References: <<199712051240.HAA14541@dns.city-net.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Daniela Birkelbach wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I was looking at Mike Savad's fishlamp and was truly impressed by its > wonderful originality and innovativity (is this a word?) and as I am > getting better at doing stained glass by pattern, I have a few ideas in my > head that I would like to transform into my own "originals", and that > brought up a question... > > How do you sign your original creations? I was in a store the other day > and saw that someone had engraved their name freestyle, and it truly looked > awful. Maybe engraving with a stencil? > > Thanks for any comments, > > Dany > > Daniela Birkelbach > Software Consultant > dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany > *********************************************************************** > "640K ought to be enough for anybody." > -- Bill Gates, 1981 > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass there's probably dozens of ways you can do it. 1. an electric engraver, the vibrating kind. it's the one i use, but it tends to chip the glass a bit, and is'nt very smooth. 2. inland makes a spinning (i think it spins), engraver, that should allow more smooth movements. 3. a dremel with a diamond bit, it works, but you may drill through the glass by accident. 4. a carbide scribe, cheap, but hard to control. 5. a copper plate with your name engraved on it. tiffany used this. but you may wan't to get them proffesionally made, and it may be expensive, and they would look bulky on suncatchers. 6. a paint marker, it works, it's smooth, it looks nice, but it can be washed off. 7. you can make your name in resist, or photo resist, and etch it on, or sanblast it. 8. you can use paint, and a fine tip brush. 9. you can use wire, look at robert oddy's work, on most of the panels he has an "R" in a circle hidden in the piece somewhere. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 07:07:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:06:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: country glass Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:04:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.5420.0> References: <<971205.091234.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > Yes, this is Martha Stewart country, bless her little heart. She lives > in Connecticut, you know. > > "Breakfast at LaFarge's" ? > > Here's the other thing about country (that drives my husband crazy). $20 > is too much for a suncatcher that will light up their window for years > (okay, maybe they really didn't like it, but they look at the price and > shake their heads), but then you see them carrying a dried flower and statice > and whatever wreath that you know cost $50 and will probably only last 6 > months....(not to malign the people who make these. I have seen some > lovely wreaths). > > I'm done with fairs for the year and so blowing off steam and thinking > about where we want to go next year. > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass mainly people by things, not neceserly on looks but size. they think the larger it is, the cheaper. and with country stuff it's worse, even though everything is ususally built by hand, people think it should be cheap because it's not name brand. the store where i was set up in, mainly had the favored country stuff. the suncatchers i did sell, were no more then $15.00 to $20.00. i would have done better if the place was more artsy. but competing with a wooden night stand for $50.00 and my little box for $60.00 is kind of difficult. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 07:11:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:09:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netins.net!sae From: "Scott Evans" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: how to "sign" your projects Date: Fri, 05 Dec 97 09:03:36 -0500 Message-ID: <199712051508.JAA31257@ins3.netins.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >How do you sign your original creations? I was in a store the other day >and saw that someone had engraved their name freestyle, and it truly looked >awful. Maybe engraving with a stencil? Well, I ordered a box of clear return address labels with "Handcrafted by Scott Evans" written on them, and have used them to stick on my projects. I always put the stickers in a non-obtrusive spot (usually on the back), and trim off as much of the excess as possible. In the end, the sticker only turns out to be 1.5" by .5" in size. I figured that the local Stained Glass place uses similar clear stickers (although they had theirs custom made and sized), it'd be good enough for me. No problems so far. Scott ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 09:04:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:03:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: daemen.edu!rholmstr From: Rosemary Holmstrom To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Country Glass Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:04:00 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk A little bit of bashing going on??? I've been a lurker because I'm new to this craft -- up until now I have enjoyed sitting back and learning from all your comments. I have always believed in "vive le difference" -- if I agree with it or not -- it's what makes the world interesting (even plastic flamingoes on lawns -- not my style but hey what the heck). The flavor of the recent comments seems to be that "country" is not quite as stylish or "of a class" with your craft (and it seems as if the people who enjoy "country" are included in this assessment). I hope this conversation is soon at an end. If your product does not sell well in a particular area, move to another area -- and get on with it. Just blowing my own steam!! "When you see a worthy person, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy person, then examine your inner self." -- Confucius ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 09:06:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:05:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: digital.net!agw From: Jennifer Daniels To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grinder Bits Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:05:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712051705.MAA15873@ddi.digital.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear L. Spangler, Jennifer from Diamond Tech here. If you measure the bit at the top it is 7/8" but if you measure if from the center where the diamond grit is it measures 1". Fast bits grind faster because they are coaser, the angle bit is for lamps, the reducing bit is for ripples. In addition to Max Studio Bits, Mika also makes bits which fit Max grinders. The M3 upgrade kit includes everything you need to turn your Diamond Max grinder into a Bevel Max Beveling System. It includes polishing pad and compound to produce clear, smooth, polished bevels. If you have any additional questions on DTI products please give us a call at 800-937-9593 and our sales and customer service staff would be happy to answer any questions. Happy Holidays, Jennifer Diamond Tech International At 02:39 PM 12/4/97 -0000, you wrote: >I have never replaced the bit on my Diamond Tech Power Max grinder and I'm >looking at all the options in a catalog. My current bit measure 7/8" in >diameter. The catalog offers 1/4", 3/4", and 1". > >1. Does this mean the catalog doesn't offer the one I currently have, or >(as in buying wood) is the one I have really *called* a 1" (or 3/4"?)? > >2. I see the descriptions "cap bit", "cap fast bit", "fast bit", "reducing >bit", are various combination thereof. I can make a guess at "reducing", >but what do those other words mean in relation to a grinder bit? > >3. I would like to upgrade this grinder with the beveling kit. Does the >bevels it can make come out looking like the kind you buy or is the beveled >part "frosty". > >I've searched the archive and found an interesting archive on bits freezing >onto the shaft and how to prevent it, but no answers to my questions. > >Thanks, >L. Spangler > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 10:32:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:29:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:30:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.8300.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I was wondering...How much glass do the people that do this for a living cut with a saw? Jazzykid in Michigan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 10:58:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:57:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: RJF2.RJF.COM!BETTY_HALL From: BETTY_HALL@RJF2.RJF.COM (BETTY HALL) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: change of address Date: 05 Dec 97 13:58:11 EST Message-ID: References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Please change my E-mail address from Bettyh@rjf2.rjf.com to: BHall@audit.rjf.com Thanks! Betty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 11:09:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:08:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!GlasCrafts From: GlasCrafts To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: torchiere lamps Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:56:40 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec5.185640.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Kathy, Glass Crafters stocks 2 1/4" fitter rings, which are the brass attaching rings you are referring to, as well as 4" fitter rings. These can be soldered to any stained glass shade, and used to hang from ceiling fan fixtures, etc. The corresponding 2 1/4" or 4" fitter caps have 3 screws that grab the fitter ring and hold it securely. 4" fitter caps are the size commonly used to hold 8" opal globes to diffuse the light in stained glass shades. We carry these parts as well as the torchiere lamp base that is shown on the cover of the Shade Parade book. Glass Crafters Stained Glass, Inc. 398 Interstate Ct. Sarasota, FL 34240 1-800-422-4552 1-941-379-8333 Fax: 1-941-379-8827 Email: GlasCrafts@aol.com Web: www.glasscrafters.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 11:10:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:10:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: country Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 19:06:25 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.19625.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 08:11 05/12/97 +0000, Don M. McDonald wrote: > >Sounds like you could almost stick a dried posey between two pieces=20 >of window glass, add a blue border and soak 'em for $50.=20 > Well, funny you should suggest this, Don, as we have a customer who sells nothing but that - only she doesn't even put a coloured border, just sandwiches the dried flowers between two circles of thin glass using wide (3/8) foil around the whole thing, solders around the edge and attaches a fine chain. Hey presto an ornament she gets about =A315 (UK Sterling) for with no trouble. As Rosemary Holmstrom says "vive la difference". Elizabeth=20 Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 11:18:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:17:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nfis.com!macbrown From: Louis MacDonald To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Delete from Mailing list Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:14:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May12.9141.0> References: <<1997Nov21.7182.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk please delete me from the mailing list. Thanks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 11:22:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:21:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!TifStyOrig From: TifStyOrig To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: A Real Puzzler Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:00:26 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec5.19026.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk There is an odd thing happening in my garage home studio. Some of my finished pieces get the white, corrosive crud and some don't. The puzzler is that I solder, clean and patina in the same way for all pieces, but some will get the crud and other's stay shiny with no crud. All are stored in the garage, so all are exposed to the same weather conditions and humidity. My cleaning process consists of CJ flux remover, followed by alcohol, followed by a water and baking soda cleaning, followed by a thorough rinsing, patina, thorough rinsing again, and then my polish - which includes Chem-Pro for black patina, and simi polish for copper and brass finishes. I use this same process for all my pieces. For instance, I made 12 dove suncatchers - all got the same cleaning and polishing - all were patinaed black. Out of the dozen, 5 got the crud - and all were the ones with which I used an iridized white spectrum glass. Then, I did 12 angel suncatchers - on two I used purple glass - and only those two got the crud. Any ideas? Diane Manchester Tiffany Styled Originals Delray Beach, Florida ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 11:55:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:55:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: crl.com!slally From: Sean Lally To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: country Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:49:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <<1997Dec5.19625.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The amount of money you listed in your post got munged somehow. Is that three-hundred and fifty pounds? On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, studio@stainedglass.co.uk wrote: > At 08:11 05/12/97 +0000, Don M. McDonald wrote: > > > >Sounds like you could almost stick a dried posey between two pieces=20 > >of window glass, add a blue border and soak 'em for $50.=20 > > > Well, funny you should suggest this, Don, as we have a customer who sells > nothing but that - only she doesn't even put a coloured border, just > sandwiches the dried flowers between two circles of thin glass using wide > (3/8) foil around the whole thing, solders around the edge and attaches a > fine chain. Hey presto an ornament she gets about =A315 (UK Sterling) for > with no trouble. > As Rosemary Holmstrom says "vive la difference". > Elizabeth=20 > Bournemouth Stained Glass > http://www.stainedglass.co.uk > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 12:01:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:00:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:07:40 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I was wondering...How much glass do the people that do this for a living cut > with a saw? Since my wife runs one of the country's largest ... uh, I'm not sure about that ... most serious stained glass restoration studios -- Cummings Studios -- I called and ask them. They do it for a living, sure. Saws are used virtually not at all. Grinders are used very, very seldom ... and then only on new work, never on restoration of original pieces of glass. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 12:16:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:15:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:13:33, -0500 Message-ID: <199712052013.PAB11654@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jazzykid wrote: I was wondering...How much glass do the people that do this for a living cut with a saw? Jazzykid in Michigan Bob writes, In my case not much. I have a Gryphon diamond band saw that I purchased about eight years ago for about $600.00. It is an excellent tool that, IMO, is superior to the copies that have come on the market in recent years. I got it to cut grape leaves for fusing. The ones I like have little inside curves and saw tooth edges. They could not be fully cut with a cutter or leaded by a person of my skill. I have gotten off my grape leaf kick and use the saw perhaps once a month. Mostly to be on the safe side when making a hard cut that I have failed to cut on an attempt or two. I do not believe that a saw is a reasonable substitute for learning to cut glass with proficiency. It is slow and not as accurate as a well made score. Also it lacks the ability to convey satisfaction like a well done score and break can. Others may well have different opinions, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 12:48:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:47:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!artglass From: "Dianne G. Maddison" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: signing name Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:46:46 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.54646.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Ivory Express Precedence: bulk Hi All, Another thought on signing your stained glass pieces. I had a rubber stamp made. I put a little etching cream on a piece of cardboard, spread it around and dip my stamp into it. I then stamp my piece of glass (before I incorporate it into the finished product, just in case I slop too much cream on the stamp). I let the piece sit for a couple minutes, rinse it and the stamp off and I have a really nice looking, permanently signed piece. Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 12:54:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:53:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!artglass From: "Dianne G. Maddison" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: cutting zinc Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:53:19 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.55319.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Ivory Express Precedence: bulk Hi Peggy, I use a Fiberglass reinforced cut-off wheel (#426) on my dremel to cut my zinc with. Thanks for the inquiry. Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 13:08:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:07:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!artglass From: "Dianne G. Maddison" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: cutting zinc Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:06:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.6631.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Ivory Express Precedence: bulk Hi Peggy, In reference to the use of the dremel for zinc cutting. I use a Fiberglass Reinforced Cut-Off wheel (#426). They come in a package of 5 and will wear down after many cuttings but otherwise it's great. Thanks for the inquiry. Dianne Maddison ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 13:24:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:24:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:32:05 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I do not believe that a saw is a reasonable substitute for learning > to cut glass with proficiency. It is slow and not as accurate as a > well made score. Also it lacks the ability to convey satisfaction > like a well done score and break can. > Others may well have different opinions, Bob I certainly share your opinion, Bob. There's no shortcut to good craftsmanship, although that's in no way to be considered a "slam" against anyone who uses a grinder. It should just be understood that the *right way to cut glass is to do so accurately with a cutter and that, as you use it, a grinder or saw should be used in the exception, rather than as the rule. Yes, it takes practice, practice, practice ... and generally the cuts that require the use of anything but a cutter (those crazy inside curves!) are almost always those that will eventually break ... but eventually you gain the skill that lends speed and accuracy to your work. This reminds me of when I was but a lad, working at the railroad as a clerk during the summer breaks from school. I was a teletype operator, keying in the car numbers, contents, weights, points of origin and destination of every car in every train that came through. Whatever I typed was punched into a tape. If I made a mistake, the operator had to cut the paper tape and remove the error, gluing the tape back together so that when it was sent, the information was clean and accurate throughout. I eventually got to the point that I could key in the loads of an entire 150-car train without an error. Whenever I (or anyone of the other clerks) did that, a great cheer would go up! We should all practice the best we can do, even if we make mistakes along the way. Eventually, we'll be the better for it. climbing down off soapbox: albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 13:27:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:26:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison From: ItsAlison To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Question about Angels -- again. Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:25:32 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec5.212532.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Yes Susan, I do have a pattern suggestion for you for an angel panel. There is a new collection of Carosel Angel patterns out now. they are sold singly in a plastic bags. Most of them are not panels, but there is one panel design among them that I think is lovely, and fits your design parameters, size wise. Just look in your glass catalogues for the carosel designs.....i know Warner Criv. has these patterns. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 14:20:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:19:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: A Real Puzzler Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 17:16:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.121646.0> References: <<1997Dec5.19026.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk TifStyOrig wrote: > > There is an odd thing happening in my garage home studio. Some of my finished > pieces get the white, corrosive crud and some don't. The puzzler is that I > solder, clean and patina in the same way for all pieces, but some will get the > crud and other's stay shiny with no crud. All are stored in the garage, so > all are exposed to the same weather conditions and humidity. > > My cleaning process consists of CJ flux remover, followed by alcohol, followed > by a water and baking soda cleaning, followed by a thorough rinsing, patina, > thorough rinsing again, and then my polish - which includes Chem-Pro for black > patina, and simi polish for copper and brass finishes. I use this same > process for all my pieces. > > For instance, I made 12 dove suncatchers - all got the same cleaning and > polishing - all were patinaed black. Out of the dozen, 5 got the crud - and > all were the ones with which I used an iridized white spectrum glass. Then, I > did 12 angel suncatchers - on two I used purple glass - and only those two got > the crud. > > Any ideas? > > Diane Manchester > Tiffany Styled Originals > Delray Beach, Florida > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass your sig says delray beach, are you near the beach? and is it salt water? salt air may do it. exactly where were the sun catchers in the garage? were some closer to the window, or a source of heat? it could just be that there's some trapped flux in the solder. you could always make some more, and place them in different areas, maybe you'll find the problem. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 14:28:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:28:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: scc.net!oddjob From: Reitmann To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: FW: Country Pattern Books: Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:25:04 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.10254.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk For those of you competing with the "Country Theme"... I just returned = from visiting two large local glass/supplies shops. They didn't have = what I needed but while there I noticed numerous pattern books with the = Country theme. There were MANY patterns with chicks, ducks, cows, = flowers etc. They even had a large display showing already constructed = farm animals on sticks. There were also patterns for picture frames with = a "country look". So you know what they say "if you can't beat them, join them". Good Luck in Martha Stewart land. Sue Reitmann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 14:29:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:28:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Country Glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:30:46 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: Rosemary Holmstrom > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Country Glass > Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:04:00 -0400 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > A little bit of bashing going on??? > The flavor of the recent comments seems to be that "country" is not quite > as stylish or "of a class" with your craft (and it seems as if the people > who enjoy "country" are included in this assessment). I hope this > conversation is soon at an end. > > If your product does not sell well in a particular area, move to another > area -- and get on with it. > Rosemary, Maybe they just aren't creative enough to come up with some designs that would dazzle the bucks right out of the pockets of those who like "country." I see it as a challenge. Like why not put some stained glass in the doors of all those wooden chests, or craft some nice vases to hold those silk flowers, or make a stained glass goose, then tie a gingham bandanna on its neck. Instead of moving to another area, change the product to sell where you are. Don't let other people's opinion get you down. As my father used to say, "That's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream." Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 14:30:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:29:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hal-pc.org!kkelly From: "Kathryn C. Kelly" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 16:28:37 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.102837.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users Precedence: bulk Albert, I liked listening to you on your soap box. I once read the following: "Excellence cost, But in the long run, Mediocrity costs far more!" Now, I will try cutting better as a result of your comments! Kathryn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 16:16:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:15:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: AOL.COM!Beveler4 From: Beveler 4 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Suzanne/Roughed Bevels? Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:05:43 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec6.0543.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk A roughed bevel ?? Sounds to me like a bevel that has only been through the first stage of the beveling process. Roughing the bevel consists of grinding the edge of the glass on a steel wheel fed with a slurry of water and silicon carbide, or a diamond wheel which gives a similar effect just not quite as consistent.The second stage is called smoothing the bevel which gives the bevel a frosted look, this is accomlished on a sandstone wheel. the last stages of beveling are the polishing stages, first on a cork wheel with a pumice slurry and finally on a felt wheel with cerium oxide and water. Both of the final stages can be broken into stages also, by using different grits, depending on how fine you want the final product to look.Never heard of selling a bevel that was only roughed, but if that is the look that you are after Hey Why Not!! Hopefully these bevels weren't selling for as much as a polished one, but if they were let me know I wouldn't mind getting in on that action!!LOL!! Beveler4@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 16:21:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:20:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 16:41:37 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.104137.0> References: <<1997Dec5.8300.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Summit Stained Glass Precedence: bulk jazzykid wrote: > > I was wondering...How much glass do the people that do this for a living cut > with a saw? > Jazzykid in Michigan > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Very little. We only use a saw for long slender pieces, and then we cut down partial way and finish out the cut by hand. Tight inside curves, etc. I don't like to consider so called "impossible" cuts because I think it's a break waiting to happen. 99.99995% of my cuts are done with my trusty brass barrel Toyo. Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 16:24:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:24:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: computer design & zinc/brass came cutting Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:18:37 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.81837.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Two quick inserts 1. I have tried a number of cadd and paint programs and find that the = best two that I have come across as far as value for money are the Jasc = made Paint Shop Pro with I think a full download shareware version test = at http://www.jasc.com which at $69 US or $99 Canadian has extremely = good features. I have a number of other paint/photo programs (Photo = deluxe, MS photo editor, Page Image, Corel) and find, as I did for the = CADD that the others were over powered and complex for the application = of glass. The CADD program that I use (generic Cadd6) which has been = taken over by Autocad and replaced by autocad LT is again a very user = friendly program (accurate to six decimal places if you should want for = those measurement freaks). I still use the generic 6 and find that it = more than fills my needs (not only for glass but for the 3400 sq. ft = house/studio I designed and built for myself). I have done a lot of = experimenting with DataCad, Autocad 10+, Minicadd7 and have found them = both too expensive and overpowered and complex (not that I don't have a = use for the more powerful programs). I still rely a lot on the old = trusty pencil and paper but it's still a 50/50 race. One day I'll get a = web site up and you can judge for yourself. 2. I have tried almost all of the lower priced solutions to the metal = came cutting dilemma and other than buying a fine toothed specialty came = cutting chop saw I have found the best companion has been a small used = table saw that I use with a narrow 8" metal cutting abrasive blade and = the motor speed reduced dramatically with a reduction belt pulley setup. = The reversed plywood blade I will give a try as it worked well on = cutting my aluminum soffits for the house. The nice thing about the = abrasive blade is that it is so easy to remove fractions of an inch and = any burrs. 3. So much for "quick inserts" Well back to the grind stone Glenn Spicer The Studio Metamorphoses Vancouver Island, BC, Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 16:50:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:50:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:50:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712060050.TAA26692@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >jazzykid wrote: >> >> I was wondering...How much glass do the people that do this for a living cut >> with a saw? >> Jazzykid in Michigan >> >> AH one of my personal favorites...............NONE...ZIP>>>ZERO. Not one piece of glass is cut with a saw. And I can't begin to tell you how many pieces of glass we cut a week. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 16:58:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:57:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: earthlink.net!jeksac From: John Keller To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 19:01:21 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.13121.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Admin Kit Investigator Precedence: bulk Hi! i had to put my two cents in - i'm looking for a glass saw because of arthritis in my hands. this is not to say, regretably, that i was ever the artist that some of you folks apparently are - i am someone who just enjoys giving it my best shot - sometimes better and sometimes i take it apart and do it again....i've been really surprised not to hear more of you say you suffer from hand problems or disabilities and you find the holding a cutter for any length of time becomes prohibitive. at any rate, i'm treating myself to a saw this holiday and hopefully other "modifications" can be put off a while longer. but i'm looking to learn fusing/slumping/other techniques because soldering for any length of time is becoming more and more difficult. just on the off chance, anyone out there with a slightly used kiln they'd like to find a new home? L. Albert Lewis wrote: > > > I do not believe that a saw is a reasonable substitute for learning > > to cut glass with proficiency. It is slow and not as accurate as a > > well made score. Also it lacks the ability to convey satisfaction > > like a well done score and break can. > > Others may well have different opinions, Bob > > I certainly share your opinion, Bob. There's no shortcut to good > craftsmanship, although that's in no way to be considered a "slam" > against anyone who uses a grinder. It should just be understood that > the *right way to cut glass is to do so accurately with a cutter and > that, as you use it, a grinder or saw should be used in the > exception, rather than as the rule. > > Yes, it takes practice, practice, practice ... and generally the cuts > that require the use of anything but a cutter (those crazy inside > curves!) are almost always those that will eventually break ... but > eventually you gain the skill that lends speed and accuracy to your > work. > > This reminds me of when I was but a lad, working at the railroad as a > clerk during the summer breaks from school. I was a teletype > operator, keying in the car numbers, contents, weights, points of > origin and destination of every car in every train that came through. > Whatever I typed was punched into a tape. If I made a mistake, the > operator had to cut the paper tape and remove the error, gluing the > tape back together so that when it was sent, the information was > clean and accurate throughout. > > I eventually got to the point that I could key in the loads of an > entire 150-car train without an error. Whenever I (or anyone of the > other clerks) did that, a great cheer would go up! We should all > practice the best we can do, even if we make mistakes along the way. > Eventually, we'll be the better for it. > > climbing down off soapbox: > > albert > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 18:23:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:23:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: signing name Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:51:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.13510.0> References: <<1997Dec5.54646.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This sounds like a neat idea. I just have one (dumb?) question. Do you stamp the front, the back, or does it just depend on the piece? Jerri On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:46:46 -0800 "Dianne G. Maddison" writes: >Hi All, >Another thought on signing your stained glass pieces. I had a rubber >stamp made. I put a little etching cream on a piece of cardboard, >spread it around and dip my stamp into it. I then stamp my piece of >glass (before I incorporate it into the finished product, just in case >I >slop too much cream on the stamp). I let the piece sit for a couple >minutes, rinse it and the stamp off and I have a really nice looking, >permanently signed piece. >Dianne >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 18:30:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:29:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cyberramp.net!byronw From: byronw@cyberramp.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass--Arthritis Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:30:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199712060229.UAA03521@mailhost.cyberramp.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: John Keller > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Cutting glass > Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 19:01:21 -0600 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > Organization: Admin Kit Investigator > Hi! > i had to put my two cents in - i'm looking for a glass saw because of > arthritis in my hands. this is not to say, regretably, that i was ever > the artist that some of you folks apparently are - i am someone who > just enjoys giving it my best shot - sometimes better and sometimes i > take it apart and do it again....i've been really surprised not to hear > more of you say you suffer from hand problems or disabilities and you > find the holding a cutter for any length of time becomes prohibitive. > at any rate, i'm treating myself to a saw this holiday and hopefully > other "modifications" can be put off a while longer. but i'm looking to > learn fusing/slumping/other techniques because soldering for any length > of time is becoming more and more difficult. just on the off chance, > anyone out there with a slightly used kiln they'd like to find a new > home? > L. I too have arthritis John (it was getting hard to use my hands at all for work) and my doctor tuned me onto something called Gucosamine Sulfate formula.... I dont wanna get way off topic but this stuff did me a LOT of good... No more swelled up hands (and other joints) and I can work for hours with no problem... Anyway I get it at a place called General Nutrition Center here in Texas and I'ts GREAT! I also no longer 'live' on advil... It's NOT in instant cure like a few advil will do.. It took me about 6 weeks of taking it 3 times a day before it started doing any good... Nowdays I take it twice a day and am doin fine... I dont wanna waste a lot of mail on bungi with this but feel free to email me and I can give you the info on the bottles I have... Byron... Wells Glassworks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 18:30:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:29:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cyberramp.net!byronw From: byronw@cyberramp.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:30:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199712060229.UAA03539@mailhost.cyberramp.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: "jazzykid" > To: "bungi" > Subject: Cutting glass > Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:30:00 -0500 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > I was wondering...How much glass do the people that do this for a living cut > with a saw? > Jazzykid in Michigan > I do this as a sideline business now that I'm hoping will build into full time in the next few years... Anyway I dont use a bandsaw or ringsaw for any of my work... I do all cuts by hand and dress up the pieces with a Glastar grinder... It's probably going to mainly depend on what you do in glass tho... I do mainly panels for cabinets,transoms,doors,windows etc... Someone that does a lot of repetative cutting such as ornaments etc would probably have good use for a saw that they could 'stack' cut pieces with to save time... Byron... Wells Glassworks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 18:36:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:35:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD01C6.12B758C0" Subject: RE: A Real Puzzler Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:58:29 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.185829.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD01C6.12B758C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the past year, I finished all of my projects with furniture polish.. I use a oil not a spray, I still use a solder polish before I use the oil.. I do not have the problem.. Hope this helps, Gloria -----Original Message----- From: M. Savad [SMTP:morn@nac.net] Sent: Friday, December 05, 1997 8:17 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: A Real Puzzler TifStyOrig wrote: > > There is an odd thing happening in my garage home studio. Some of my finished > pieces get the white, corrosive crud and some don't. The puzzler is that I > solder, clean and patina in the same way for all pieces, but some will get the > crud and other's stay shiny with no crud. All are stored in the garage, so > all are exposed to the same weather conditions and humidity. > > My cleaning process consists of CJ flux remover, followed by alcohol, followed > by a water and baking soda cleaning, followed by a thorough rinsing, patina, > thorough rinsing again, and then my polish - which includes Chem-Pro for black > patina, and simi polish for copper and brass finishes. I use this same > process for all my pieces. > > For instance, I made 12 dove suncatchers - all got the same cleaning and > polishing - all were patinaed black. Out of the dozen, 5 got the crud - and > all were the ones with which I used an iridized white spectrum glass. Then, I > did 12 angel suncatchers - on two I used purple glass - and only those two got > the crud. > > Any ideas? > > Diane Manchester > Tiffany Styled Originals > Delray Beach, Florida > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass your sig says delray beach, are you near the beach? and is it salt water? salt air may do it. exactly where were the sun catchers in the garage? were some closer to the window, or a source of heat? it could just be that there's some trapped flux in the solder. you could always make some more, and place them in different areas, maybe you'll find the problem. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to 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1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD01C6.0BE8CB00" Subject: RE: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:49:40 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.184940.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD01C6.0BE8CB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I bought my Inland DB 1000 for under $140.. I love it.. I might do it = for 1 out of 40 cuts.. but that 1 cut is the impossible because of = intricate inside curves. And is saves Glass.. I know everyone here, = recommends the Taurus but, I am not sorry that I purchased the Inland.. = It also has a fresh water run off that I like.. Gloria -----Original Message----- From: BOB DUCHESNEAU [SMTP:YWAH36A@prodigy.com] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 1997 10:00 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Cutting glass Jazzykid wrote: I was wondering...How much glass do the people that do this for a=20 living cut with a saw? Jazzykid in Michigan Bob writes, In my case not much. I have a Gryphon diamond band saw that I=20 purchased about eight years ago for about $600.00. It is an excellent=20 tool that, IMO, is superior to the copies that have come on the=20 market in recent years. I got it to cut grape leaves for fusing. The=20 ones I like have little inside curves and saw tooth edges. They could=20 not be fully cut with a cutter or leaded by a person of my skill. I have gotten off my grape leaf kick and use the saw perhaps once a=20 month. Mostly to be on the safe side when making a hard cut that I=20 have failed to cut on an attempt or two. I do not believe that a saw is a reasonable substitute for learning=20 to cut glass with proficiency. It is slow and not as accurate as a=20 well made score. Also it lacks the ability to convey satisfaction=20 like a well done score and break can. Others may well have different opinions, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working=20 with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road,=20 Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD01C6.0BE8CB00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjcXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQASAAAAUkU6IEN1dHRpbmcgZ2xhc3MACQYB BYADAA4AAADNBwwABQAUADEAKAAFAFcBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcMAAUAFAAsAA0ABQA3AQEJgAEAIQAA AEY5MzNDQTAyQjE2REQxMTE4MjFGNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwANIGAQOQBgCYCQAAIQAAAAsAAgABAAAA CwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBgsD0S0AG9AR4AcAAB AAAAEgAAAFJFOiBDdXR0aW5nIGdsYXNzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb0B0BI0Asoz+22xEdGCH0RF U1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAAAzaG91bmRzQHVzYW9yLm5ldAAA AAMABhDGWgM5AwAHENQFAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJQk9VR0hUTVlJTkxBTkREQjEwMDBGT1JVTkRF UiQxNDBJTE9WRUlUSU1JR0hURE9JVEZPUjFPVVRPRjQwQ1VUU0JVVFRIQVQxQ1VUSVNUSEVJTVBP U1NJQkxFQkVDQVVTRU9GAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAggYAAH4GAAC4CQAATFpGdZ9Iy9h3AAoBAwH3IAKk A+MCAGOCaArAc2V0MCAHE4cCgwBQDvZwcnEyD/YmfQqACMggOwlvMjVmNQKACoF1YwBQCwNjAwBB C2BuZzEwMzMnC6cKsQqASSAG4HVngmgFQG15IEluFVFgZCBEQiAVkBggIBsCEAXAdRewBJAgJDGg NDAuLiAXYCAJAGB2ZSBpdBlBFrBtMmkXAmRvGeEYUzEgIwhgBUBvZiAZICBj1RuQcxlBYhuRdA+A BUA/G2AcIRngBCAc0BnRbXBabwQQaQJgGdBiBZBhbnUPsBuyC4B0BRAewHTvGdEAgQEAHBFyGcAc UA/wkxexHYFzYSCRIEcLYEcEEBlCGWJrbm8H4GV5GcByeQIgGdAdwAlwLHYgCXAFoG0HgBewHZRU PR7Qch7gHIIjoBawYW32ICKQBUBzBbAjABzEFrD+cAhwD3EPsBfAHbIXdBoS/wVAB0AmACNQIdAl gBhQCXDwc2ggdx+xBcAk4AOghxvAG9AmZWxpa2UZQP8WVCGwBbAHMBZUK/4LMCrQfDM2AUAVEBZB A2AfwGNCdBCEMTYgLS8ST30FEGcLgAdABdAHkCFQZ35lLxMr9i4kFkMLMS4mac4tGRAZIC1hMTgY IAzBUTKzYiBGA2E6DINiMQ/gIEJPF/AZYERVAENIRVNORUFVACBbU01UUDpZSFdBSC2QQUAuEWTp GnB5LiPhXSv1M+AGYBMCMDRHVGgIcHNkYWp5I6BEBZBlBtAY0TBCNCOgMTk5NxgBOkkYMVBNN5dU bzRHZ20hwkAckBVwaTdCN5h1rGJqLlE0R0MbkHQLgD5nPGQwvzHKLXQV60ph8Hp6eWsgIClwLiI0 QPcWZSmABCB3AiAEgT8xGUD0LkgioW0UgClgPHMasvEdsnBlbwtQGdAc00Yj3x2BGGIpABZUKtB2 PzIcIZ8WVAPwHNAo8SFQdz9CbW8LgAXQH5BHkGcAcCv6Qt5vM+BDUBnwB5AsFlQZYf8DoBdBHsAe 8SXCRXIaIg+AyxnBKQBHIwBwaAIgGrD3BzAEYBexYheiSgEmVhZUlybYAaAbgmUac3llD5HdJYBn GtBH01LDJC2gGTBPVNEoMh2BA5FleDmwbOcecAIwSCV0bwbwHMMlUexNTyOgISJ1RpAFEAWx91bQ HaMFoHAIkB2SHPFPQ78j4R8BA6AdshZUAMByKvD/HWEDoCPBVjJTcxoiU+AdYe8csRrQHUIJwGFG kBmQU4D7IXIYU2Ye4ETSOOFatiMh/wQgKrRPNCrQAkAecR/7VZH/UOVW4EmxCYAwQCCxX1FOEf0I YGwXwBZUJcIekV7BVhD/ThEbkUmVHCEpogWxXhEBAH9QkRdQKQBYISYAKgIXMnP/QxBWECslGWJP Q1zRH8AqBM8XQV23G9BDEGNrYkMe4u8dslECWCEPgHAEIAIgObDvSAdQYRzQGVBNHiBhMCZBbxrQ ZQFaZSFQZmxBICJ3+x3ATeFhQxA/QSkAD4EXwPcdQlFLT0NmC3AecCdRXVT/UAEDkRzwH8AeABuh WHFEcP9oyRrBJcIeoCrQItEcxEnjf1VjI7Eh0AIgAaAecVgAYv9ugBnwG5BlEWa0BKA/MlZ2311k RdNJky4RMoBjCJBtMPc3MBlhHWNzCQAH4BeiJcL9KNJjIGEfsijTSTVWAXCB/yAxBPAFsCsAD/Ao ghrxC2B/a3AdlAGgAxAZ8G6zBaBu/xnAaFEc8AQActAuYFhQA6H/SEVggSkAfsMawCMxf2NiQ65i d5FrgB7AbislTx2x/1OhAMAXUH7DT0M3AAEgI3H/VkFZEQMAAiBNMDTQTLAr/+wKX4nRTEhERYEH kCMw0R7QIChZCGAnaZRuxf5zWzEpohzRWnQwQArBIxA/i5CEgURwW1B5iEmSLim/blEYoAGQSzJm 8SKhU4/ihydBIbMjoDI2NzQu8N+PrggAZwAjoBZURX9hF7DlICBvI6BDQSOglJ+VFeBVU0EgOQHQ kZAWVMxWbx+QGdAoNy2gj4DBkbA5LTM5Ni7wIiEIRkFYl2k2NDI3+xZUMHhGBbF4QgUDgqIPcf8V cE0hJsBeER7xAMADEVbQ6jo8ZC0JcHEKUG6APM7/O8AhQCQhWIYq0G6AlIWcX988jxaBBxBLgWIT dnLhd/MfHPEVA2QQI1ACQHA6L9Qvd6VgLjzXLz90LdIvZBAWRacaEgEAqHAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAR EAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzCg8vxOzwG9AUAACDCg8vxOzwG9AQsAAYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAOACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4ABIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADgu MAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsABoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA AA6FAAAAAAAAAwAHgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADAAiACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4ACYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAe AAqACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgALgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AADVoQ== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD01C6.0BE8CB00-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 18:36:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:36:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD01C6.2222CBA0" Subject: RE: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:27:01 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.19271.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD01C6.2222CBA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, this Christmas season I have a lot of orders for mauve.. settled = for a Yough mauve that I drove Dave crazy over, "Is this mauve?".. what = do you recommend for mauve in glass.. Any suppliers out there, please = leave me know.. Would especially like to find a mauve cathedral and a = true pink cathedral..=20 thanks=20 Gloria -----Original Message----- From: Kirsten [SMTP:psyche@gulf.net] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 1997 9:25 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message mail wrote: >=20 > Those of you who do craft fairs will know what I'm talking about. >=20 > Someone is standing there, admiring your work, looking it over, > saying how beautiful it is, but at last they sigh and say, "But my = house is > country. You know, wood and dried flowers. I can't get any stained > glass. But I really like that." Do you want to stomp on something > and say "Are you MARRIED to your decorator?" We decided for next = year, we're > going to make up a bunch of new floral designs and put together a part = of > our exhibit labeled something like "Country Floral. Designs to = complement > your country home" > Can you guess that "country" is real popular around here? >=20 > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Make sure you use those God awful french blue and mauve colors. Eeick!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD01C6.2222CBA0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiAXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQAbAAAAUkU6IEdhdGV3YXllZCBtYWlsIG1l c3NhZ2UAVAkBBYADAA4AAADNBwwABQAVABsAAQAFABsBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcMAAUAFQAVABEABQAl AQEJgAEAIQAAADFCMzRDQTAyQjE2REQxMTE4MjFGNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAMcGAQOQBgD4CAAAIQAA AAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAAirlJ 1QG9AR4AcAABAAAAGwAAAFJFOiBHYXRld2F5ZWQgbWFpbCBtZXNzYWdlAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAAB vQHVSbkCyjQcbbER0YIfREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEgAAADNo b3VuZHNAdXNhb3IubmV0AAAAAwAGECE5a/UDAAcQgAUAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAFlFUyxUSElTQ0hS SVNUTUFTU0VBU09OSUhBVkVBTE9UT0ZPUkRFUlNGT1JNQVVWRVNFVFRMRURGT1JBWU9VR0hNQVVW RVRIQVRJRFJPVkVEQVZFQ1JBWllPVkVSLCJJU1RISVMAAAAAAgEJEAEAAADaBQAA1gUAACEJAABM WkZ15AGnMXcACgEDAfcgAqQD4wIAY4JoCsBzZXQwIAcThwKDAFAO9nBycTIP9iZ9CoAIyCA7CW8y NWY1AoAKgXVjAFALA2MDAEELYG5nMTAzMy8LpwqxCoQKgFkHkCwgRHRoBAAgQ2gFEHM+dADABCAP sBggAiAgSYIgD4B2ZSBhIAkA+QVAb2YZgAsgBJAEIAIQywXAAMB1GQAuLhhBAkAubAmAGiMZMFkI YGdo2xpkF1FhBUAYwGQDYBkBxkQY8gUAYXp5GYAZAHJyF0AiSQQgF2Macz8KIhrBdxyiZG8gea0I YCAJcAWgbQeAbhtU8xw0C4AgZwtgBBAawQ/w4m4d8HN1cAtQCJEEIO8IYAVAF2AEkGUXQAtQGGEP GRAkARkBB4Aga25vancawVcIYGwbUAeQcNsFkAcxbB3wIuBrHHEgAN5mC4AbUBkwHDRjHLAjkM8d AAdAGSAnE3RyClAj4P0LgGsnuBrBFlQckSkwBCF9FmNHCQEHMBZYCzAi4DNeNgFAFRAWQQNgdAWQ dKEQhDE2IC0uEk8FEBZnC4AoMU0HkHNhZ35lLhMWVi0kFkMLMS0maTAtMTQ0AUAi4DE4jjABQAzQ MbNiIEYDYco6DINiD+BLaQ+gLUABA6BbU01UUDpwRHN5D3BlQGclgGb0Lm4PwF0WVTLgBmACMAkz R1RoCHBzZGF5NRdARAWQZQbQBJAgMAI0F0AxOTk3IDkiOhQAIFBNNbdUbyMzRyHTQGJ1FXBpLmMg gTW4dWJqLVEzR1LwZTogRxywB9A3cBtB/wDAAxEHgS8iL78wyix0FevdPeN3LSIzQBZjPioVQrD9 NxBvJDEZkSAiH6AgAB/x/x2xAYAaIAtwGgED8CYwJOOxH5RJJ20XUAdAawuArmcZIAbgI1AuQl5T A3D+ZQIgIYEYMQGQINBGwiOFeGFkbTPgRsIgIQXAd60FsGsXQAkAb0azaRlx9x4iQlYvIHlGwkNg B+A4AP0agHQGkCWAS8IEABdAOuD/BUAcsSHhI2MigS6AHBAoYmtM0R5RQiNRbR3wQ2B1vyQxBABC VgWgOvAowHkiMf8b0STjF0BK8ARwKFMdAAiQextRCQB3GfEiMRjAJ8Bu/icFQC9ATrEicgGQC4AJ gP9CViHUIkBQkhjACXAmKRyh9C4iIkBEIAQ9gAIwJrL7F/ADcHAZgAOgGIAHgBdhfxVwQlZP9R5g BxAZECAiTcBBUlJJRUQmskqj3wWDHLAFsB9QIkBXGRAFge5pAQAbVDVweAVAPaAKwNlTIWUnCXBW R29JYyAA/wDAJpEisBkhOuEPcBmCNXB/B+BUMSgiAQBPoQYxKGJw/SNSb1VRI5EZIQqxGXJCVvdK sl9QF3BiS9ELYDgAGzL7WmcmZCIIUVIyMvBi0yIx/zewY1QmwSCBI/EgsS1wQmWvSqNSBU0xB4Ai QlZDA5HvICI1IC8BHIQiUgVYsBeB+1eTI+BvY/ALYBuRA2A68PsbUCOSP0JeL5ZCsFjgLSFqaB3w SwdAYSqRF0BJNwIwBJAi4GIdwGhhTG8RA5EgKDgsoCkgNmA3OS0yOTHQIkBGTEFYdAkx0DQ2QlZV wENPTk4gSFexF2A3F6A2UTgRTHNEF0BQT9xCIDHQFaAXQEYKwEowZxVwJsADoENUODAsoDMONHXh FaBCVkhDTEFgRE0wMkB2sAIgbthWTS4UgHvRLgmADHBbcMdxOEYFsSKgYgT0af8YkQ9xFXAXIiP1 PeMmwD0g1SHTLQlwcW0hdDreQzH/WbEgwibBI4EmYRfwF0CD099/rzqfQoMHEA9waRkAY5F+dj3x AaAbME7CFQNN8WhBAkBwOi8vd4jwLn065y8h0yzDJYAWSxZUTb9hYiKgXBVRIhdgQ3JHU2L+d03i A1AJ8GIhCjIoUydlAwjyVJJFZWljayH+IRZUL3h+D38fgC+BPxaB/4Kfg6+Evzsahq+Hv4jPid8L iuwSAQCfAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMCBiDH3UAb0BQAAIMCBiDH3UAb0B CwABgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQ hQAAAAAAAAMAA4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAEgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAG gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADAAeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAA AAAAAAMACIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgAJgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4ACoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAA AAAeAAuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6 IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAIpJ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD01C6.2222CBA0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 20:04:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:03:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting glass--Arthritis Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:50:52 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.175052.0> References: <<199712060229.UAA03521@mailhost.cyberramp.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Have you looked at "The Cutter's Mate" that works with the Morton grid? I got to play with it at my retailer's. Kind of pricey, but I thought if I ever end up with arthritis, I'd want it. It worked really well. Kind of made me feel like I was cheating, it cut the glass so easily. Jerri > >> Hi! >> i had to put my two cents in - i'm looking for a glass saw because >of >> arthritis in my hands. this is not to say, regretably, that i was >ever >> the artist that some of you folks apparently are - i am someone who >> just enjoys giving it my best shot - sometimes better and sometimes >i >> take it apart and do it again....i've been really surprised not to >hear >> more of you say you suffer from hand problems or disabilities and >you >> find the holding a cutter for any length of time becomes >prohibitive. >> at any rate, i'm treating myself to a saw this holiday and hopefully >> other "modifications" can be put off a while longer. but i'm >looking to >> learn fusing/slumping/other techniques because soldering for any >length >> of time is becoming more and more difficult. just on the off >chance, >> anyone out there with a slightly used kiln they'd like to find a new >> home? > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 20:09:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:09:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: CorelDraw Magazine Article Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 22:05:25 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.14525.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello all, The article on designing stained glass with CorelDraw is in the October 1997 issue. According to the issue they have a step by step process on the web at www.corelmag.com. Pat Roses and Rainbows (8-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 21:05:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:04:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: CorelDraw Magazine Article Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 00:03:22 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971206000322.0069dfdc@pop.netrox.net> References: <<1997Dec5.14525.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Pat and fellow bungians, you kindly wrote: >The article on designing stained glass with CorelDraw is in the October >1997 issue. According to the issue they have a step by step process on >the web at >www.corelmag.com. Thanks! I will have to try to find a copy of the magazine because I can't seem to find the article on line. If anyone else does find it at corelmag.com, please clue me in! But I'm real excited about this and grateful to all who have tried to help me out on this ... today I talked to a close friend, and he just bought a new printer. Guess What? A CD of CorelDraw was included and since my friend has Photoshop he doesn't want the CorelDraw and is going to give it to me! So this must be the right program for making patterns! Any one with any more clues on this, please chime in! Thank you *all* very much! What an amazing resource you all are! Cheers, M.-J. *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*% M.-J. Taylor athena@netrox.net When you talk about your troubles, your ailments, your diseases, your hurts, you give longer life to what makes you unhappy. Talking about your grievances merely adds to those grievances. Give recognition only to what you desire. Think and talk only about the good things that add to your enjoyment of your work and life. If you don't talk about your grievances, you'll be delighted to find them disappearing quickly. -- Thomas Dreier *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 21:11:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:11:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 23:10:42 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.171042.0> References: <<1997Dec5.13121.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk > Hi! > i had to put my two cents in - i'm looking for a glass saw because of > arthritis in my hands. ....i've been really surprised not to hear > more of you say you suffer from hand problems or disabilities and you > find the holding a cutter for any length of time becomes prohibitive. > L. Hi L.! I, too, find it prohibitive (or impossible) to grip a cutter for long periods of time. I have Myasthenia Gravis, and often when it should be "Cutting Day", it is "Designing Day" or "Research Week". You could call me "Schedule Challenged"!! I have found owning two Toyo pistol-grip cutters to be helpful...one with foam pipe-wrap duct-taped to the handle so that my grip doesn't have to be so tight for those "not quite perfect" days. This also works with pencils, toothbrushes and eating utensils. (As Red-Green says, "It's only temporary unless it works".) Good luck on the purchase and use of a glass saw. My husband purchased one for me several years ago. It is currently being used as a "decorating accessory", helping to pull together the complete studio ensemble (and such a lovely neutral shade of gray it is!). I find it's slowness completely unacceptable, but with pain as a motivation, you may understandably arrive at a different conclusion. My best to you and your future! Hire the "Physically Challenged"...it's a hoot to watch us work! Shirley Grapeland, Tx. P.S. Hi Larry! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 5 22:31:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:30:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:25:40, -0500 Message-ID: <199712060625.BAA14212@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk John Keller writes: Hi! i had to put my two cents in - i'm looking for a glass saw because of arthritis in my hands. Bob writes, John, have you tried the pistol grip cutters from Toyo and Fletcher? I know of a number of people that have been able to use these cutters. Several were little old ladies that showed severe arthritis in their hands. You also might check out the little sewing machine type cutter that scores the glass while you turn a wheel. Also, be sure that you have a good pair of breakers. For soldering you might try one of the cheap light weight 100 watt soldering irons that tend to overheat. Use the iron with a controller and you have a light weight iron with great control at a reasonable price. My best recommendation for everyone. And of course the Weller tempmatic gun should be considered for ease on your hands. Used ceramic kilns are likely to be available cheap if you look hard. Good luck, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 05:32:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:31:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Diamond Blade Scroll Saw Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:31:31 -0800 Message-ID: <199712061331.FAA13048@ark.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howdy all....Does anyone have info on the 'rbindustries, inc.' saw and blade advertised on page 69 of the 'Fall 1997 Glass patterns Quarterly'? The kind of info I am looking for is 'can I use their blade on 'my' scroll saw? Can I just purchase blades? From where? How much are they? Any info on this unit you folks can give me would be helpfull... Thanks in advance.. Wayne Wayne Munro 'Snail mail' address 2960 Suffield Road, Courtenay, B.C. Canada V9N-3V5 Phone and Fax-- (250) 338-5507 "Call before sending a fax so setup is complete" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 05:34:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:33:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Location for Sandi Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:30:51 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec6.133051.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Glass Crafters is located in Sarasota. It is the only stained glass retail I have located so far. I will be north of St. Pete for the week before Christmas and would be interested in any locations around there. I know I'll be going to Glass Crafters but need more places to feed my "addiction". LElsbury@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 05:38:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:37:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: citynet.net!hupp From: Zor Prime To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Torchiere lamps Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 09:31:48 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.13148.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Gamma Force Precedence: bulk Thanks to all of you who sent ideas and information on attaching rings for the torchiere lamps. And also to Sue for offering to send me supplies. I really appreciate the offer, but I should now be able to locate my own after all the helpful advise I received. And Mary, the town is Sandyville. I'm afraid I don't know of your mothers town. We have one little store and a post office. Thanks again to all. Kathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 05:46:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:45:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:42:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971206074143.23c70866@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear bugians, All this to grind or not to grind.... one needs to make clear if one is working in foil or in lead came. I work in foil, so far, and grind all the edges, no matter how good the cut, so that I don't get cut when foiling. This said, I would like to know how long peoples grinding bits are lasting, when they are working in foil, and using their grinders reasonably.... I see people stating that they have had the same bit for years.... am I doing something wrong, or are they working with lead came, and have learned to cut well? Mine certainly don't last years. Also how much work one does is important.... grinder hours would be a better comparison... meg At 04:32 PM 12/5/97 +0000, you wrote: > >> I do not believe that a saw is a reasonable substitute for learning >> to cut glass with proficiency. It is slow and not as accurate as a >> well made score. Also it lacks the ability to convey satisfaction >> like a well done score and break can. >> Others may well have different opinions, Bob > >I certainly share your opinion, Bob. There's no shortcut to good >craftsmanship, although that's in no way to be considered a "slam" >against anyone who uses a grinder. It should just be understood that >the *right way to cut glass is to do so accurately with a cutter and >that, as you use it, a grinder or saw should be used in the >exception, rather than as the rule. > >Yes, it takes practice, practice, practice ... and generally the cuts >that require the use of anything but a cutter (those crazy inside >curves!) are almost always those that will eventually break ... but >eventually you gain the skill that lends speed and accuracy to your >work. > >This reminds me of when I was but a lad, working at the railroad as a >clerk during the summer breaks from school. I was a teletype >operator, keying in the car numbers, contents, weights, points of >origin and destination of every car in every train that came through. >Whatever I typed was punched into a tape. If I made a mistake, the >operator had to cut the paper tape and remove the error, gluing the >tape back together so that when it was sent, the information was >clean and accurate throughout. > >I eventually got to the point that I could key in the loads of an >entire 150-car train without an error. Whenever I (or anyone of the >other clerks) did that, a great cheer would go up! We should all >practice the best we can do, even if we make mistakes along the way. >Eventually, we'll be the better for it. > >climbing down off soapbox: > >albert > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde, Puntarenas COSTA RICA phone 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 05:57:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:56:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: country (price of dried flower ornament) Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 13:53:35 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.135335.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry, folks, I tried to use the symbol for UK pounds forgetting it gets translated into computerese by eudora light. It should be 15 UK pounds which I think is quite a good return for the amount of work involved in making these items. Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 05:57:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:56:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 13:53:37 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.135337.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 15:13 05/12/97 -0500, Bob wrote: >Jazzykid wrote: >>I was wondering...How much glass do the people that do this for a >>living cut >>with a saw? >>Jazzykid in Michigan > > In my case not much. I have a Gryphon diamond band saw that I >purchased about eight years ago for about $600.00. It is an excellent >tool that, IMO, is superior to the copies that have come on the >market in recent years. I got it to cut grape leaves for fusing. The >ones I like have little inside curves and saw tooth edges. They could >not be fully cut with a cutter or leaded by a person of my skill. > I have gotten off my grape leaf kick and use the saw perhaps once a >month. Mostly to be on the safe side when making a hard cut that I >have failed to cut on an attempt or two. > I do not believe that a saw is a reasonable substitute for learning >to cut glass with proficiency. It is slow and not as accurate as a >well made score. Also it lacks the ability to convey satisfaction >like a well done score and break can. >Others may well have different opinions, Bob > > Sam & I use our band saw very little - and usually in the same situation sas Bob, for preparing wiggly shapes for fusing. Some of our customers who make "Tiffany replicas" use theirs mainly to cut down on glass wastage when using the expensive uroboros and bullseye ringmottles, and we have seen band saw cuts used effectively in copper foil/solder panels. However we don't use the saw for glass for leaded panels on the whole as if the cut line is too intricate to cut in the usual way, it probably has too many changes of direction to lead up successfully. Just our six pennorth for what its worth Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 06:09:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 06:08:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Diamond Blade Scroll Saw Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 08:10:45 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.21045.0> References: <<199712061331.FAA13048@ark.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Summit Stained Glass (see us at: http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Wayne, RBI Industries, if it's the same one, is out of Harrisonville, Missouri. They're about 15 minutes away from my shop. I don't subscribe to GPQ so can't look at the ad, but would be happy to put you in contact with them. What type of saw do you have? RBI makes a lot of woodworking tools and equipment, but wasn't aware that they made a saw capable of cutting glass. Mike Peck Wayne Munro wrote: > > Howdy all....Does anyone have info on the 'rbindustries, inc.' saw and blade > advertised on page 69 of the 'Fall 1997 Glass patterns Quarterly'? The kind > of info I am looking for is 'can I use their blade on 'my' scroll saw? Can I > just purchase blades? From where? How much are they? > > Any info on this unit you folks can give me would be helpfull... Thanks in > advance.. > Wayne > > Wayne Munro 'Snail mail' address > 2960 Suffield Road, > Courtenay, B.C. Canada V9N-3V5 > > Phone and Fax-- (250) 338-5507 > "Call before sending a fax so setup is complete" > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 07:41:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:40:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: televar.com!fishbait From: Fishbait To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Diamond Blade Scroll Saw Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 07:38:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec5.233831.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Those people at RBI are very helpful and they assured me that it will cut the glass. I believe they have a toll free number to call and chat with them about it. If you don't have anumber for them, I'll see if I can find it. I bought the blades and necessary stuff to attach to my RBI Scroll Saw. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but the only thing I see that could be improved from looking at the pieces I received was that you do need to come up with an aluminum baking pan or some similar thing that will fit under there to catch the water. It doesn't come with anything to catch it. Those aluminum pans you can purchase in the grocery stores are cheap if you don't have something around the house to fit. The price of the whole works is reasonable compared to the price of a band saw and if it works---great! By the way I have been trying to think of some things I could make on the scroll saw out of wood and then incorporate the stained glass into it. Any ideas? Bonnie Clark Ellensburg, Washington ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 07:52:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:52:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: artisticglassusa.com!studio From: studio@artisticglassusa.com (Artistic Glass of Atlanta) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Remove Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:52:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Please remove me from the list for a while. I am leaving town for a few months. Thanks! www.artisticglassusa.com Studio@artisticglassusa.com Atlanta, Georgia USA Phone: (770) 992-2900 Fax: (770) 518-8686 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 08:08:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:08:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: A Real Puzzler Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 11:08:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971206110837.0073187c@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The puzzler is that I >solder, clean and patina in the same way for all pieces, but some will get the >crud and other's stay shiny with no crud. All are stored in the garage, so >all are exposed to the same weather conditions and humidity. > >My cleaning process consists of CJ flux remover, followed by alcohol, followed >by a water and baking soda cleaning, followed by a thorough rinsing, patina, >thorough rinsing again, and then my polish - which includes Chem-Pro for black >patina, and simi polish for copper and brass finishes. I use this same >process for all my pieces. I found that my white crud disappeared when I stopped using all the removers, only use plain water now, and started using elbow grease polishing it with a soft cloth in between each step. I solder, rinse off, then rub all the solder lines vigorously. I then patina, rinse and rub all the solder lines vigorously. Then I polished and again rub all the solder lines vigorously. It seems to me that flux removal is the problem, and that if you do remove the flux the white crud doesn't appear, and if you don't remove the flux it does appear. However you can never really tell if all the flux is removed until the white crud appears. In that event, I steel wool the solder lines and start over with the rubbing, patina, and polish. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran Ohio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 09:16:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:15:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Chris Burrow? Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 00:10:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971206001027.0071a638@pop.netrox.net> References: <<971205.091234.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Fellow Bungians, Excuse the personal note, please ... but if Chris Burrow is on this list, please send me your email again ... my reply to you on mosaics has bounced ... M.-J. athena@netrox.net ****What I write is just what *I* think. Take what *you* like and leave the rest.**** M.-J. Taylor Although we cannot change the direction of the wind, we can adjust our sails. (Unknown) |\ ( ) _____________________________________________|_\_____________________ ----- -_-_ -- - - ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 09:28:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:27:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lobo.net!exotic From: "Myrddn" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: cutting and grinding Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:26:37 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk just a quick question brought to mind by the thread on cutting zinc. Does it hurt the diamond grinding wheel if you use metal on it? I have long thought the since I don't cut zinc or brass very well even with a miter, that grinding the angle would make great correction. Also, I just recently discovered a "drum sander". It uses a belt sander loop, and it about 2 inches wide. For finish grinding square inside corners, it is a cheap alternative to a power saw. Grit is available from 20 to 800. Got it at a jewelry supply store for under $30. It does heat the glass pretty quickly though, because I haven't figured a way to cool it. Belts are under $3 each. Blessed be Myrddn speak your mind, mind your speech ---------------------------------- To subscribe to Paganspace! send mail to paganspace-request@lobo.net with only the word suscribe in the body. To unsubscribe from PaganSpace sned to paganspace@lobo.net with unsuscribe the only word inthe body. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 09:38:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:37:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lobo.net!exotic From: "Myrddn" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: small pieces of glass Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:30:44 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I guess when it comes to using small pieces it depends on your definition of small. if small is 1 1/2 inches and everything else is thrown away, that is one definition. I myself, being a Cancer and a pack rat, have a hard time throwing away everything that is not pure powder, and then, even the powder that comes from the grinder when the water dries up, I have been saving. Don't know why, just can't bear to throw it away. I am planning to see how coaster use up the little tiny pieces. Blessed be Myrddn speak your mind, mind your speech ---------------------------------- To subscribe to Paganspace! send mail to paganspace-request@lobo.net with only the word suscribe in the body. To unsubscribe from PaganSpace sned to paganspace@lobo.net with unsuscribe the only word inthe body. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 10:51:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:50:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Cutting glass Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:36:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.83615.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi jazzykid- We never use a saw. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 11:27:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:27:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: cutting and grinding Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:21:34, -0500 Message-ID: <199712061921.OAA17588@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Myrddn writes: Just a quick question brought to mind by the thread on cutting zinc. Does it hurt the diamond grinding wheel if you use metal on it? I have long thought the since I don't cut zinc or brass very well even with a miter, that grinding the angle would make great correction. Bob writes, Diamond is harder than any metal. Large industrial diamonds are used to drill steel for years on end. So, I thought I just might save myself some time and sharpen my lawn mower blade on my grinder. The blade was quickly sharpened to perfection. When next I used the grinder for glass I discovered that the diamonds had been torn from their SOFT nickel alloy mounting. That was a $25. 00 lesson in what not to do. IMO diamond glass grinders are best used for grinding glass only. Soft metals (especially lead and solder) will clog up the grinding surface making it worthless. Diamond grinding heads are of two basic types. The cheaper ones are electroplated and only have a thin layer of diamond which lasts a long time with proper use. The more expensive heads (Glasstar makes some) are bonded with a realitively thick layer of diamond and last a very long time which results in them being a far better buy in the long run. It is always necessary to run the bits wet for cooling and removal of glass debris as well as safety from glass dust. Also the coolant additatives are a good idea. You will not find a commercial operation of diamond grinding that does not use a coolant additative. Claims of 50%+ increased diamond life are probably correct. Grind on, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 11:44:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:44:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!debbiesgarden From: debbiesgarden@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 14:40:09 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec6.19409.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971206074143.23c70866@sol.racsa.co.cr>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > This said, I would like to know how long peoples grinding bits are >lasting, when they are working in foil, and using their grinders >reasonably I just replaced my grinder head after 4 years. About 2 or 3 times per year I usually loosen up the tiny bolt and slide the bit down about the width of an edge of glass for fresher diamond edge. I only need to grind lightly on the curves due to tiny slivers. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 12:27:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:26:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:46:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.94637.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Meg- Grinder bits don't last as long anymore because they are over-used. I've foiled gazillions of pieces of glass that have not been ground. I must say, though, that Michael's cutting and grozing is a bit finer than mine - of course, he's been at it for 23 years. When one gets really good at cutting glass, grinding is superfluous... redundant. Plus, your foil sticks better because you don't have all that glass dust to contend with. IMNSHO. Best regards, Dani Greer (who has a new glass easel = and is very happy today!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 12:41:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:40:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: earthlink.net!jeksac From: John Keller To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 14:44:51 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.84451.0> References: <<199712060625.BAA14212@mime4.prodigy.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Admin Kit Investigator Precedence: bulk Hi and thanks to all of you who wrote suggesting pistol grip cutters to aid the arthritic grip - that's what i've been using up til now. I hadn't tried the foam grip modification - will work on fixing that this weekend and see how it works. i use that sort of stuff on other handles but never thought to apply the same logic to my cutter - duh. will give it a shot. i appreciate all the other ideas, too, and will be trying them out also. As has been frequently said - you guys keep coming through, again and again. Thanks. L. BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote: > > John Keller writes: > Hi! > i had to put my two cents in - i'm looking for a glass saw because > of > arthritis in my hands. > > Bob writes, > John, have you tried the pistol grip cutters from Toyo and Fletcher? > I know of a number of people that have been able to use these cutters. > Several were little old ladies that showed severe arthritis in their > hands. You also might check out the little sewing machine type cutter > that scores the glass while you turn a wheel. > Also, be sure that you have a good pair of breakers. > For soldering you might try one of the cheap light weight 100 watt > soldering irons that tend to overheat. Use the iron with a controller > and you have a light weight iron with great control at a reasonable > price. My best recommendation for everyone. And of course the Weller > tempmatic gun should be considered for ease on your hands. > Used ceramic kilns are likely to be available cheap if you look > hard. > Good luck, Bob > > ____ > Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working > with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, > Escondido, CA, USA 92026 > Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 12:42:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:41:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: signing name Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 15:39:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.103912.0> References: <<1997Dec5.13510.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk jerri m Roey wrote: > > This sounds like a neat idea. I just have one (dumb?) question. Do you > stamp the front, the back, or does it just depend on the piece? > > Jerri > > On Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:46:46 -0800 "Dianne G. Maddison" > writes: > >Hi All, > >Another thought on signing your stained glass pieces. I had a rubber > >stamp made. I put a little etching cream on a piece of cardboard, > >spread it around and dip my stamp into it. I then stamp my piece of > >glass (before I incorporate it into the finished product, just in case > >I > >slop too much cream on the stamp). I let the piece sit for a couple > >minutes, rinse it and the stamp off and I have a really nice looking, > >permanently signed piece. > >Dianne > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it depends on the piece. if it's a panel, it can be done in the front, like a painting. if it's a suncatcher or a box, then the back. things that go in doors, or cabinets should be in the back. and lamps, the inside. you want it signed but you don't want to detract from the appearence of the piece. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 13:47:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:46:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: scc.net!oddjob From: Reitmann To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: scraps & itty-bitty pieces Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:45:29 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.94529.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk We who live in the part of the country where winter is 9 months long try = to bring some cheer into dreary days by planting and forcing bulbs to = bloom in water, indoors. Instead of purchasing marbles or small rock to = hold these bulbs into the container use your small pieces of scrap = instead. Not only does it look nice through a clear container that is = holding the bulb, it costs you nothing. (you would not be able to reuse = the scrap however; as the roots from the bulb grab and wrap around all = the pieces. Sue Reitmann ( in Mpls.,MN where although mild so far, winter has = already been too long!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 15:42:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:42:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mfi.net!jcampbell From: "jcampbell" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Sat, 06 Dec 97 19:24:16 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec7.32416.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I agree. Part of the art of glass is hand cutting. You can do so much = more detail with the saw and we do use one but it is slow compared to han= d cutting.. We are glad we learned hand cutting. It is worth it. ---------- > > > > I do not believe that a saw is a reasonable substitute for learning > > to cut glass with proficiency. It is slow and not as accurate as a = > > well made score. Also it lacks the ability to convey satisfaction > > like a well done score and break can. > > Others may well have different opinions, Bob > > I certainly share your opinion, Bob. There's no shortcut to good > craftsmanship, although that's in no way to be considered a "slam" > against anyone who uses a grinder. It should just be understood that = > the *right way to cut glass is to do so accurately with a cutter and = > that, as you use it, a grinder or saw should be used in the > exception, rather than as the rule. > > Yes, it takes practice, practice, practice ... and generally the cuts = > that require the use of anything but a cutter (those crazy inside > curves!) are almost always those that will eventually break ... but > eventually you gain the skill that lends speed and accuracy to your > work. > > This reminds me of when I was but a lad, working at the railroad as a = > clerk during the summer breaks from school. I was a teletype > operator, keying in the car numbers, contents, weights, points of > origin and destination of every car in every train that came through. = > Whatever I typed was punched into a tape. If I made a mistake, the > operator had to cut the paper tape and remove the error, gluing the > tape back together so that when it was sent, the information was > clean and accurate throughout. > > I eventually got to the point that I could key in the loads of an > entire 150-car train without an error. Whenever I (or anyone of the > other clerks) did that, a great cheer would go up! We should all > practice the best we can do, even if we make mistakes along the way. = > Eventually, we'll be the better for it. > > climbing down off soapbox: > > albert > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 15:43:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:43:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!artglass From: "Dianne G. Maddison" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: rubber stamp Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 16:42:55 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.84255.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Ivory Express Precedence: bulk In reference to signing ones name to glass panels. Right on the money Mike, thanks. As for the stamp itself---It's just like the rubber stamps used in the post office. I just went to a sign shop and picked out some fancy lettering and had them make it up for me. I think it cost me about ten dollars. At the time I had it made I also had the year put on it, but since I have used it for the last eight years I cut the year off--still works good. I think the depth of the rubber is pretty standard. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 15:54:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:53:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: CorelDraw Article Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:49:44 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.94944.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Visited the web site and found only the current issue. Left an email for them and asked if they would repost it on the site or send it to this group. Back issues are available from them or you might try a local bookstore and special order. If all else fails I'll try to make copies and send it to interested parties. Pat Roses and Rainbows (8-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 16:03:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:02:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: feline graphic Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:55:15 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.95515.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Did anybody have trouble viewing the feline graphic (Maneki)? Did anybody try to view it?? If you use Netscape just double click on the attachment icon (paperclip). Let me know and I can send other graphic files to the group. Pat Roses and Rainbows (8-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 18:40:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:38:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:46:51 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > All this to grind or not to grind.... one needs to make clear if one > is working in foil or in lead came. I work in foil, so far, and grind all > the edges, no matter how good the cut, so that I don't get cut when foiling. Ah, you don't need a grinder to protect yourself from cuts; just take another piece of glass and "whet" the newly cut piece with it just like you're sharpening a knife ... that's the traditional way of doing it and it works just fine ... and at much less expense. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 20:09:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:08:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: feline graphic Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:11:43 +0000 Message-ID: <199712062235.QAA06375@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: patkelly > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: feline graphic > Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:55:15 -0800 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > Did anybody have trouble viewing the feline graphic (Maneki)? Did > anybody try to view it?? If you use Netscape just double click on the > attachment icon (paperclip). Let me know and I can send other graphic > files to the group. > > Pat > Roses and Rainbows > (8-) > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > I didn't get message with the graphic attached. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 20:29:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:29:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: softcom.net!mthaxton From: "Melissa Thaxton" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Add me to the list Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:29:42 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.122942.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dawn, Well Rachael is 7 1/2 months now and she is sooo active! already pulling up on everything, can't keep her down. I am still breastfeeding but only part time. I have been back to work since August 4th, I absolutely HATE my job. Corporate BS sucks. I have started making boxes when time allows and the garage is warm enough. I bought some Ultimate 60/40 solder, I have never used it before. I learned on 50/50 and am used to it. When I do my overlay on the glass the 60/40 seems to leave a ripple affect in the solder, not smooth as I am used to. Maybe you would know what I could use that wouldn't ripple or hold the heat and crack my boxes, I do real thick overlay's, they look real tough. I guess I will have to wait till spring when it warms up again. I haven't cracked the glass with the 60/40 though. I can't wait to start on a large window. Haven't done one in many years. My problem is I love expensive glass, lucky I have about 15 square feet of Fisher I've had since 1981. cant wait to use it. I would love to aquire a bit of Lambert glass too. Well I'll send you a picture some time of the kids and the kind of boxes I make if you want. Happy Holidays, Melissa -----Original Message----- From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, December 04, 1997 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Add me to the list >Hey Melissa, > >This is Dawn. I know what you mean. I was sooooo busy this summer I unsu= >bscribed for awhile. But now I'm back it's like being reunited with 300 = >close friends! Now that it's winter and dark so early, and now that I = >once again have all the extra motivation and inspiration supplied by this= > group, I'm back to glass "work" (fun). So since it's Christmas- present= >-time I'm back to throwing a quick supper on the table and running down = >to my workshop in the basement where I hide out working till 2:30 or 3:00= > in the morning. (I just can't seem to stop once I have a project so clo= >se to completion. I can't wait to see the end product.) > >What kind of interesting Christmas projects is everyone out there doing? > >Now to the important non-glass part of the message...how's your baby doin= >g, and how are you managing to get any glass work done? (Okay, well, it = >is slightly glass related.) > >Dawn > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 20:49:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:48:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: softcom.net!mthaxton From: "Melissa Thaxton" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: A Real Puzzler Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:49:08 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.12498.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Diane, Could it be you make a few at one time and then clean them and the ones that happened to get the "crud" on them were made first?. Just a thought. Melissa -----Original Message----- From: TifStyOrig To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, December 05, 1997 11:54 AM Subject: A Real Puzzler >There is an odd thing happening in my garage home studio. Some of my finished >pieces get the white, corrosive crud and some don't. The puzzler is that I >solder, clean and patina in the same way for all pieces, but some will get the >crud and other's stay shiny with no crud. All are stored in the garage, so >all are exposed to the same weather conditions and humidity. > >My cleaning process consists of CJ flux remover, followed by alcohol, followed >by a water and baking soda cleaning, followed by a thorough rinsing, patina, >thorough rinsing again, and then my polish - which includes Chem-Pro for black >patina, and simi polish for copper and brass finishes. I use this same >process for all my pieces. > >For instance, I made 12 dove suncatchers - all got the same cleaning and >polishing - all were patinaed black. Out of the dozen, 5 got the crud - and >all were the ones with which I used an iridized white spectrum glass. Then, I >did 12 angel suncatchers - on two I used purple glass - and only those two got >the crud. > >Any ideas? > >Diane Manchester >Tiffany Styled Originals >Delray Beach, Florida >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 23:29:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:28:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 02:11:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.211155.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971206074143.23c70866@sol.racsa.co.cr>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk I don't do 'production work', being a hobbyist, that sometimes does custom work, but I have the same bit on the machine for the past 3 yrs. I do both foil and lead, and grind all my stuff I know (but am not sure everyone does), that the bit can be moved up and down on the motor arbor, so you can get 4 - 5 cutting surfaces, depending on how thick the glass is. If this is obvious to all, I appologize, but someone I know didn't know this, and tossed the bits after an 1/8th" band of grit was worn off. Also, I fill the resivoir all the way, and have one of the machines that doesn't use sponges to keep the bit wet. It is an Inland Wizard, and has an insert around the bit with a series of slots that pull the water up by capillary action. If it is filled all the way, water will actually come above the grinder surface as soon as you turn it on. I keep a jar of water next to the grinder in case the water level drops. Yes, this is messy, as it prolly flings more water around than the sponge type. I have the grinder and Gryphon saw mounted on an old laundry sink, so the mess is localized, as both machines can fling a ton of water. Wearing a plastic apron helps. The bit is NEVER allowed to go dry. Also how hard do you press the glass against the bit? Enuff to slow the motor down? If so don't press too hard, let the stone do the work, pressing lightly. This gives better control too. Make multiple passes, taking off a little at the time. Also there is a product that is a type of 'grinder lube' or coolant. I throw a capful in each time I fill the grinder with water. Richard LaVal > Dear bugians, > I work in foil, so far, and grind all > the edges, no matter how good the cut, so that I don't get cut when foiling. > This said, I would like to know how long peoples grinding bits are > lasting, when they are working in foil, and using their grinders > reasonably.... I see people stating that they have had the same bit for > years....-- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?' "Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 6 23:48:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:47:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Thanks to all Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 02:48:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec6.214824.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I appreciate the many different comments on saws and cutting glass. It was all very informative. Thank you. (Secretly) I was hoping to start a "new" topic..I was afraid of having to read about M.Stewart...for next few days...LOL. Happy Holidays to All Jazzykid ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 04:17:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 04:16:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Diamond Blade Scroll Saw Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 07:15:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec7.21550.0> References: <<1997Dec5.233831.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > By the way I have been > trying to think of some things I could make on the scroll saw out of > wood and then incorporate the stained glass into it. Any ideas? Have a look at Robert Oddy's work. His combinations of wood and stained glass are breath taking. http://www.servtech.com/public/rnoddy/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 05:07:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 05:06:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!ElsieTurqman From: Elsie Turqman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:Cleaning Edges Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:06:08 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec7.1368.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You can also use a small carborundum (sp) stone. The kind used for sharpening knives. We I started in glass back in the 70's, we didn't have grinders. At 09:46 PM 11/24/97 +0000, you wrote: > >> All this to grind or not to grind.... one needs to make clear if one >> is working in foil or in lead came. I work in foil, so far, and grind all >> the edges, no matter how good the cut, so that I don't get cut when foiling. > >Ah, you don't need a grinder to protect yourself from cuts; just take >another piece of glass and "whet" the newly cut piece with it just >like you're sharpening a knife ... that's the traditional way of >doing it and it works just fine ... and at much less expense. > >Albert > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 05:46:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 05:45:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:56:01 -0600 Message-ID: <199712071343.HAA17605@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk - >I agree. Part of the art of glass is hand cutting. You can do so much = >more detail with the saw and we do use one but it is slow compared to han= >d cutting.. > We are glad we learned hand cutting. It is worth it. You mean you actually considered hand cutting as an option and made the decision to in fact make use of that method? If so, that is one of the most mind boggling comments I've ever seen on this list. My head is spinning. Why do things like this always happen early on Sun. morning when I'm not ready? Are we both of the same earth or are we cross posting between parallel universes ;-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 07:10:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:09:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 10:06:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec7.5640.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > All this to grind or not to grind.... one needs to make clear if one > > is working in foil or in lead came. I work in foil, so far, and grind all > > the edges, no matter how good the cut, so that I don't get cut when foiling. > > Ah, you don't need a grinder to protect yourself from cuts; just take > another piece of glass and "whet" the newly cut piece with it just > like you're sharpening a knife ... that's the traditional way of > doing it and it works just fine ... and at much less expense. > > Albert > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass does'nt that chip the glass? i guess if your working with came, the came will hide the chips. but in foil, you'll see the chips, maybe cut your hand in the process, and possibly get a chip in your eye. plus of course that only works on the thinist edge, a deep flare won't be removed... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 07:13:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:12:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Add me to the list Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 10:10:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec7.51021.0> References: <<1997Dec6.122942.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Melissa Thaxton wrote: > > Hi Dawn, > Well Rachael is 7 1/2 months now and she is sooo active! > already pulling up on everything, can't keep her down. I am still > breastfeeding but only part time. > > I have been back to work since August 4th, I absolutely HATE > my job. Corporate BS sucks. > > I have started making boxes when time allows and the garage > is warm enough. I bought some Ultimate 60/40 solder, I have never used it > before. I learned on 50/50 and am used to it. When I do my overlay on the > glass the 60/40 seems to leave a ripple affect in the solder, not smooth as > I am used to. Maybe you would know what I could use that wouldn't ripple or > hold the heat and crack my boxes, I do real thick overlay's, they look real > tough. I guess I will have to wait till spring when it warms up again. I > haven't cracked the glass with the 60/40 though. I can't wait to start on a > large window. Haven't done one in many years. My problem is I love > expensive glass, lucky I have about 15 square feet of Fisher I've had since > 1981. cant wait to use it. I would love to aquire a bit of Lambert glass > too. > > Well I'll send you a picture some time of the kids and the > kind of boxes I make if you want. > > Happy Holidays, > Melissa > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dawn > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Thursday, December 04, 1997 1:00 PM > Subject: Re: Add me to the list > > >Hey Melissa, > > > >This is Dawn. I know what you mean. I was sooooo busy this summer I unsu= > >bscribed for awhile. But now I'm back it's like being reunited with 300 = > >close friends! Now that it's winter and dark so early, and now that I = > >once again have all the extra motivation and inspiration supplied by this= > > group, I'm back to glass "work" (fun). So since it's Christmas- present= > >-time I'm back to throwing a quick supper on the table and running down = > >to my workshop in the basement where I hide out working till 2:30 or 3:00= > > in the morning. (I just can't seem to stop once I have a project so clo= > >se to completion. I can't wait to see the end product.) > > > >What kind of interesting Christmas projects is everyone out there doing? > > > >Now to the important non-glass part of the message...how's your baby doin= > >g, and how are you managing to get any glass work done? (Okay, well, it = > >is slightly glass related.) > > > >Dawn > > > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass 60/40 and ultimate are 2 different solders BTW. ultimate instanly freezes, your hand might be shaking causing the uneveness. though that is a decorative technique. plain 60/40 works just as good, and you should'nt get the ripples, and it's cheaper then ultimate. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 08:04:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 08:03:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire From: "Doug Scale" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Add me to the list Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:00:44 -0500 Message-ID: <199712071606.LAA28663@sleepy.ebtech.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > Melissa Try holding your iron vertically over your foil line. that way the heat will not get too the inner area of the glass and crack it. Don't spend too much time with your iron on any one spot. This should work. Its a little awkward to start if you have held the iron low (horizontally) in the past but it will get better with practise. Doug Scale ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 08:13:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 08:12:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: iamerica.net!flowers From: Mike Barr To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: A Real Puzzler Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 10:05:55 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec7.4555.0> References: <<1997Dec6.12498.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Flowers Etc Precedence: bulk The only time I've seen this occur was when the foil was not smoothed properly, and flux trapped under the foil caused the "crud". Could the pieces affected have been rough textured and the foil didn't seal tightly? Or maybe forgot to clean those? Mike Barr ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 08:30:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 08:29:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Cutting glass Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:29:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec7.6293.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by Jazzykid in Michigan >I was wondering...How much glass do the people that do this for a living= cut with a saw?< Speaking for myself, I do not even have a saw. All pieces are cut using a Toyo pistol grip cutter. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 10:01:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 09:59:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Classydad From: Classydad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Please reconnect Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 12:57:30 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec7.175730.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I must have gotten dropped accidentaly from the group. Please reconnect me thanks. Classydad@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 11:15:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:13:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CColdfeet From: C Coldfeet To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: CorelDraw Article Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:07:06 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec7.1976.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk For some reason I could't connect with the site. I am very interested in the article if you locate it. Next time I'm in the library I'll see if they get that magazine. Maybe the New York Public will send it to us. CC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 13:18:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:17:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: luton.ac.uk!david.outram From: "David A Outram" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass supplies Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:16:29 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec7.211629.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: University of Luton Precedence: bulk Hi, I've been lurking for quite a while and will probably continue after this message. keep up the good work I'm learning quite alot. This is mainly aimed at Elisabeth and Toby..... can you let me know if there is a stained gless supplier closer than Tempsford. .... By the way I'm in luton and don't fancy jetting up the A1(M). Thanks for the assistance. David A Outram Network Support Officer University of Luton Email David.Outram@Luton.ac.uk Phone 01582 743242 Fax 01582 489318 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 13:54:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:53:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: country (price of dried flower ornament) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:51:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199712072153.VAA31620@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Elizabeth ( & Bunginians) Over about almost 2 years I have been conversing with Bunginians in USA and comparing notes about facilities, possibilities, economics, prices and so on of stained glass - the one thing we all share in common. A long time ago, I gave up finding a neat computer symbol for the UK Pound Sterling - it generated confused and non-understanding questions. Much better to just stick to "long-hand". Occasionally I fear I I have suffered a certain loss of credibility. I am delighted that there is now a nice small - almost dedicated UK nucleus that can help to make the cultural divide smaller. How would you feel about you, Sam and your students joing us for the Holland trip?? Would love to have you with us, would love to share, would love to learn...... I have had many energetic exchanges these last 24 months about UK prices of imported tools and gizmos for stained glass. There was a very interesting article in today's Sunday Times about UK manufactured goods being freely availably in USA for 50 per cent less of the cost than the price charged in UK. I don't know if you saw it. I have cut out the article, will save it and transmit it to several people in USA (including Charles Warner - whom I owe a reply....). Similar strategy also works the other way round.... A Weller 100W soldering iron being peddled by a stained glass mail order company (my neck of the woods - as a "complete bargain" and a "special offe"r until Jan 1st 1998) at UK Sterling 69 PLUS VAT, when Draper (an English manufacturer) sells a 100W iron for UK Sterling 12, Inclusive of VAT. (To you in America, VAT stands for a government Tax called Value Added Tax and it is 17.5 per cent collected by the Government on top of the Retail Price. It is levied on EVERYTHING sold, except food, books and childrens'clothing. It is even levied on Home heating - except that political voting policy didn't dare to extract the full 17.5 percent - but only 8.5 per cent...). The discrepancy sort of raises questions...., does it not? Current official rate of exchange 1.70 US dollars to 1 UK Pound Sterling. Over here, we would love to see increased commercial (even American) competition. The conflict - as always - will be from making a quick small angle "quick killing" to a sustained long-term, sensitive and enduring market-place. The stained-glass mail-order company/ies in UK that I am in touch with don't like me; they they write bits of "hate-mail" in their Newletters without mentioning my name. I am about promoting the interest and revival of stained glass; they are about - sell quick - get rich quick. I happen to believe that MY approach will be more enduring and profitable in the long run. I also believe in that the Craftsman should benefit commericially as WELL as the Supplier. I believe in that the supplier should get off his high horses and start to "serve" the Craftsman far more than he has in the past. Sure...., I want to make a living, I have to pay a mortgage, the roof repairs and the damages of winter's ravages of the plumbing system .... and Toby demands his Meal a Day (he eats before I do!!) I - for one - would welcome a far more market-sensitive trading policy of stained glass products importers & traders' perception in the UK;as regards training, as regards education, as regards a kind of commitment to bringing up a new generation of stained glass innovatory Artists and Craftsmen. So far, in the UK, the training and courses peddled on the market has only been offered on the narrow angle of what the cash-register clocks up in an individual situation/ business. The pursuit of education, excellence, training, qualification can ONLY enhance the reputation and ancient Tradition of Stained Glass favourably. I have often mentioned my immense pride in my students. I am determined to push them beyond their own - and my limits - I want them to excel, I want them to be BETTER than me. Quite frankly and very honestly - I am NOT a philantropist. Spreading the missionary message of stained glass means that I too will have more work (and money to pay for my plumbing....) Sure enough, when one of my students makes a "splash" - yet is able to turn around and say - well, .... actually,... Elisabeth helped me to get me going, .... I preen my feathers make one or two little pirouettes and blush. The next day I will haul the said student over the coals and ask them what THEY are going to do to pass on their knowledge...... The money-grabbing, short-term policy oif "some" retailers/distributors/ importers just occasinally get me/ my guts Off soap-box !!- Elizabeth in Bournemouth - my humble apologies for the "spark"... UK and USA - share the language - yet a WORLD apart .... It hurts -, sometimes. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (who is niggling for his dinner!!) Sorry, folks, I tried to use the symbol for UK pounds forgetting it gets translated into computerese by eudora light. It should be 15 UK pounds which I think is quite a good return for the amount of work involved in making these items. Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 13:55:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:53:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:51:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199712072153.VAA31606@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Bunginians, I will have to read the rest of this thread, before I really "hang myself" here; my reactions are simply a gut-reaction, stemming from pure stomach and a lovely previous e-mail from Len (whom I still owe a reply...) As a linguist (in earlier life) I often question language and concepts , like the word "hand-made". The irony is that some folks will call something "hand-made" if they have pushed the button with their precious index-finger to the machine that commenced the process of "making". I have problems with strange superlatives like "healthy food" (healthy to whom??) "hand-tailored garment", "the world's most favourite airline" or "hand-made in Italy" etc. We live in an age of "labelling". Any branch of the Arts or the Crafts is understood as something created from the mysterious and wonderful process of what goes on from the eyes of the prponent to the brain to the perception and then translated into into reality through dexterity and talents of the very hands physically attached to the brains that perceived the original idea. Some Art forms (or Craftforms) involve mechanics or machinery by definition (e.g. photography , woodturning and specific CAD Artforms), but they are clearly understood and accepted as such . Wood-carving, paintining , glass-blowing, anything prefixed by "hand-" does not. Nor does any craftform that is traditionally understood to be created through manual dexterity and the translation from seeing into what you create with your hands. The "pure" example of that is the musician who perceives something and then translates it with his interpretation, his emotions to his hands (and/or ability to "puff") . The traditional potter relies on the ability to perceive and translate with his/her hands. Today the potters wheel may be an electric one, but that is purely a convenience factor, rather than a substitute SKILL. The stained glass artist / craftsman relies on his ability and dexterity in how to use his hands, his body, his balance to understand, tame and cut glass with his hands. His versitility, craftsmanship, interpretation rests in what he can do with his bare hands with this mysterious, frozen temperamental liquid; how to tame it, train it, master it . .....Almost like befriending, taming a wild animal, a temperamental wild horse ... even. You don't do THAT with machinery....An electric glass cutter and an electric grinder is no SUBSTITUTE. It can never be. The testimony to that is further emphasized by an earlier "thread" when a Newbie asked of the "professionals" how often they used a glass grinder (or an electric glass-cutter). The resounding reply was: Hardly ever!! Quite right too! Machinery is an AIDE, but NEVER a SUBSTITUTE to good and honest and proud craftsmanship! Len expressed a mild comment of surprise about "hand cutting" being an OPTION for consideration. (... and remember! - he has artheritis in his hands!!) Quite simply, it being an OPTION, just does not come into it. Sweat it out and learn good, honest, proud and well-crafted HAND-Cutting as a matter of principle and pride, THEN you can call yourself a Craftsman. Forgive the pun, but there are NO short-cuts. The public is very gullible. It's very tempting to trade craftsmanship for quick money. Some "so called craftsmen" trade on the label "Hand-Made". Some even make it a selling point. When I get that lambasted in my face, I get suspicious and start asking akward questions about techniques and methods..... I would be perfectly happy to accept a label saying "Machine-made in Italy". Then I know what I am buying and buy it on that principle (if that is what I want). But the minute someone claims that it is "Hand-Made", I will want to know the basis of that claim. The use of an electric glass-cutter/glass saw immediately removes the value, respect and immediate contact I myself personally would feel both with the "craftsman" and the object I was look at. Another analogy: Mountineers.... Think of the people who climb Mount Everest and the Mountains of Tibet. They claim to have climbed them, conquered them inch by inch by the skin of their finger nails, suffering, subjecting themselves to and mastering the punishing elements thrown at them, risking life and death. You couldn't do it, I couldn't do it. We stand in awe! What if we were later to be told that; well actually,..... they only climbed 20 feet, were then picked up by helicopters and transported up to the top where they were photographed as if having having achieved something. You - like me - would admire the PR, the machinery and the advertising. But where was the achievement?? Man pitting himself against the Elements?? I would feel cheated. I wouldn't buy it. I would feel great admiration for modern technology and the machinery; my respect for the Climber would be non-existant.... Len - stick to your guns! You are a true craftsman. You are high on my list should I make it to USA next autumn. I will have a lot to learn from YOU! (Above part-answer to Len who sent me a private e-mail). PLEASE don't become too dazzled by "gizmos". They are only TOOLS, they will never replace pure craftsmanship, talent, sweat and pride in what you do with and have in your HANDS. Stepping down, and... ...Probably falling flat on my face from Soap-Box.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Quoting thread: >I agree. Part of the art of glass is hand cutting. You can do so much = >more detail with the saw and we do use one but it is slow compared to han= >d cutting.. > We are glad we learned hand cutting. It is worth it. You mean you actually considered hand cutting as an option and made the decision to in fact make use of that method? If so, that is one of the most mind boggling comments I've ever seen on this list. My head is spinning. Why do things like this always happen early on Sun. morning when I'm not ready? Are we both of the same earth or are we cross posting between parallel universes ;-) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 13:56:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:53:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re:Cleaning Edges Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:51:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199712072153.VAA31623@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Elsie (and Bunginians) Today in 1997, those same tool sharpening stones are the ONLY grinding tools I will allow in my classes. It's a wonderfuul tool for grindining the glass down and for focussing the students' attention and energies to better and more accurate glass-cutting. Elbow-grease and attention to the temperamental qualities of glass..... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK You can also use a small carborundum (sp) stone. The kind used for sharpening knives. We I started in glass back in the 70's, we didn't have grinders. At 09:46 PM 11/24/97 +0000, you wrote: > >> All this to grind or not to grind.... one needs to make clear if one >> is working in foil or in lead came. I work in foil, so far, and grind all >> the edges, no matter how good the cut, so that I don't get cut when foiling. > >Ah, you don't need a grinder to protect yourself from cuts; just take >another piece of glass and "whet" the newly cut piece with it just >like you're sharpening a knife ... that's the traditional way of >doing it and it works just fine ... and at much less expense. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 15:34:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 15:33:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: feline graphic Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:24:04 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec7.23244.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I didn't get any messages with attachments. If this is the picture with a feline holding one paw up in greeting I think I am the one first requesting it. It had to do with a Japanese "legend". If anyone has info. on this please let me know, either through bundi or e-mail direct . Thanks!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 17:32:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:31:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:29:30 +0000 Message-ID: <199712080131.BAA19860@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Len, Most of my message to you is already encompassed in my ideas and thoughts already posted at Bungi. You sparked it off. No way are you a "humble student"! You have too much to give. And by the way, I quote - bowing to UK traditions - in square footage, but when it comes to making the darned things, I too measure my lines, my head, my hand and my glass in metric millimetres Being a darned foreigner, I thought it was a good enough cover. Nice to know that I am not the only one.... ;-) I will grapple with computer designing for a long time yet. I can't quite make head or tail of it. Michael Wilks of Dragonfly is very generous, very patient and very helpful. I have learnt a lot from him, a lot of which is a very personal input. I am a constant Devil's Advocate which must be trying for the most patient of souls... Now and then - as you will have seen for yourself - I really drop myself right in the thick of things with my own Soap Box, principles and beliefths. ALL of it totally NON-judgemental, just striving for the Ideal World.... We can but try. A college where I teach recently had an exhibition of "works" They asked me for examples of my own work. I gave them photographic enlargements of the work of about 12 of my students, with their names and my own "blurb" about them. The College told me they had only room for about 2-3. They ended up putting up the display of every single one that I had selected. The workmanship, the craftsmanship was too good for them to ignore. Guess who was "clucking away".... I didn't need to give the College examples of MY work. Susan (my asthmatic Artist friend - on whose behalf I have fought this Health & Safety battle) taught me another valueable lesson of the Art of Teaching; "I am what I Teach; if I teach well, my students will surpass me. I have therefore more than succeeded in my job as a Teacher. If I am talented in my own right, my value, my work, my talent will be reflected in my ability to pass on what I know and what I believe in". Stained glass is such a precarious heritage. I feel I cannoit affoird NOT to pass it on in the best way I possibly can. Personal vanity must not be allowed into the equation. Ayh, my friend... I have only too much to learn from you too. Sffectionately yours Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK P.S. I WILL develop the thought further on CAD designs.... We are much slower in UK.... >Historically, I am a pencil and paper person myself. However I see >quite clearly the relevance of CAD. I also have seen the light that I >myself have to learn it Hi Elisabeth, Me too. I am a absolute beginner when it comes to computer design. I bet there are many bungi folk that are experienced with these tools and I hope to learn from them on or off list. . The only graphics program I have is *paint* that came with Win95. Obviously the more I learn about the program the more I'll be able to get it to do some real work. I do all my layouts in metric...... its way easier.. especially when dividing up an area for geometic stuff IMNSHO 1 inch = 25cm (close enough) Heres the numbers for a current poject Two triangles separated by a 100cm (4") vertical mullion the long leg is the vertical 600cm (24") the other legs are equal lenght 425cm (17") if I use the line tool and hold down the shift key I will automatically get the proper 90 and 45 degree angles ..neat I know I can't get get it full size I just want a scale drawing for sketching. I guess what I'm trying to say is how do you measure lines with *paint*....if you can at all. Your humble student Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 17:32:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:31:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass supplies Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:29:30 +0000 Message-ID: <199712080131.BAA19867@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear David, ....University of Luton, heh...! Oh God,... I am just on the other of Luton Airport, just inside Hertfordshire..... I have friends at "Luton University".... I talk to them / share time with them almost every day.... I think Glass @ Bungi has finally ARRIVED in UK..... I have spent 2 years telling these people in USA that we in UK have a lot to offer..... I am probably less than 3 - 7 miles away from you...... What an irony!! YES, there ARE alternatives to Tempsford Glass.... UK Libel Laws prevent me from saying more. I will be delighted to guide and direct UK Bunginians in better value-for-money directions and receiving myself advice and info on who is where and what in the UK. There used to be a small supplier in Luton (Wellington Street), but he folded, gave it up and went to the Isle of Wight... In Stopsley was another supplier, but the owner also gave up about 18 months ago, sacked his stained glass lad and is now planning his retirement. Radlett,, Barnet, Camden and London itself are other alternatives in relation to where you and I are..... Mail Order companies Kansa-Glass and Hetleys in Wembley, as well as Goddards & Gibbs near City Road in London (where I trained) (retail section sold off to TWI now operating out of Glassfields Road in the City; Chapel Studios in Kings Langley (though not strictly speaking "suppliers"); the "Founder" and his wife joined us last Easter for the trip to Chartres in France... EliZabeth in Bournemouth could possibly provide a very interesting further link... I wonder what she has to say / think about pitting herself against "suppliers" like Tempsford who are quite categorical and arrogant as regards their claims....... HHhhmmm.... Delighted to hear from you... Delighted you have joined us... ( It's been a bit lonely out here on a limb...) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK. Hi, I've been lurking for quite a while and will probably continue after this message. keep up the good work I'm learning quite alot. This is mainly aimed at Elisabeth and Toby..... can you let me know if there is a stained gless supplier closer than Tempsford. .... By the way I'm in luton and don't fancy jetting up the A1(M). Thanks for the assistance. David A Outram Network Support Officer University of Luton Email David.Outram@Luton.ac.uk Phone 01582 743242 Fax 01582 489318 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 17:33:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:31:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: small pieces of glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:29:30 +0000 Message-ID: <199712080131.BAA19863@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Meg, I am not a potter, so I ask forgiveness for my ignorance. As I understand it, the small pieces of glass really have to be "itsy-bitsy" i.e. really quite small. The larger the piece, the longer it will take to melt & blend into the clay and flow along the surface. when put into the kiln. (Clay fires at a substantially lower temperature than glass) The potters that knock on MY door reduce my small scraps to even smaller bits, often by using an old-fashioned stone pestle & mortar to thump/grind/smash them down... I am surpised that the potters amongst us have not already "piped up" offering more suggestions & help. Some months ago there was a flood of SG Bunginians who said they also did pottery. Where are they NOW? Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK QUOTE: Elizabeth, am still looking for someone to tell me exactly how you do this. A friend tried a few, and they ended up in lumps at the bottom. Looked like she hadn't fired hot enough, the lumps were fractured, so I assume she cooled it too fast, and it almost looked like they didn't want to run.... flux for glass??? Anyway, I would love to be able to tell her how to do it.... maybe the pieces where just too big...Meg At 02:49 AM 12/4/97 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Stephanie et all, > >I keep even the "itty-bitty" bits.... >Several local potters and pottery groups keep knocking on my door >asking for them, so I save these bits for them. They will use them as >glazes on their pottery. In this way I get acquainted with another >art-form I know only too little about. >My advice to you, look up where there is a local pottery class in >your area, contact the teacher and offer your "itty-bitty" bits. They >will be only too pleased to come and collect! Who knows, if you smile >sweetly enough, you might even get some kind of "trade" going in >return.... ;-) > >My Best >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > > As with many others, I keep almost all scraps >of glass. The pieces that are too small for anything at all, even >mosaics, I throw away. I keep a small paper bag on my workbench to >throw in the itty bitty scraps that I break off with my pliers, then >when I'm ready to throw the bag away, I wrap it up in a couple of >small plastic bags (like you get from the store) before putting in >the normal trash bag, to help keep any sharp edges from poking >through too bad. > >The scraps that may be big enough for mosaic use (which is a "some day I'll >learn to do mosaics" kind of thing), I sort into major colors and a >miscellaneous category. I put these scraps into old upright "kleenex" >boxes. They're free (after they're empty of course), and they work fine. I >also use a lot of the smaller scraps for free-form pins. Just grind the >edges smooth and leave it in whatever shape it happened to come off in, >wrap foil around the edge, and glue a pin back on it. These are great >freebies to throw in with an order (I only sell smaller gift-type items, >not window/door inserts, so they're a good freebie to give with a few >suncatchers or small panels). > >The larger scraps that can be used for small pattern pieces in the future >are kept in plastic 4-drawer-containers (like the "Vanities" line, which I >buy at Wal-Mart) sorted by color. I prefer the drawers rather than just >boxes, so I can pull out the drawer I want rather than having to take the >lid off a box. The drawers aren't see-through, but I have them labelled. > >Scraps which are too large for the drawers, starting at about 4" x 4", I >keep along with most of my other glass in metal vertical file holders that >I buy at the office supply - these are generally used in offices for >keeping file folders on desks. Most of the glass I buy is in the small to >medium size (usually not larger than 18" x 24"), and anything up to 12" x >12" or so fits fine in these file holders. The few larger sheets of glass >that I have are leaning against my workbench, on the side next to the wall. > >That was probably more than anyone wanted to know , but basically I keep >all but the ittiest bittiest of pieces. My definition of ittiest bittiest >is beginning to expand a little, though, as my kleenex boxes get full with >no day in sight that they'll be used! >- ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 19:13:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:12:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:44:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec7.164434.0> References: <<199712080131.BAA19860@pluto.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Elisabeth, All I can say is Wow! I'm impressed. Can't you come over here and teach some of us? Jerri Pat, pat, Toby. >A college where I teach recently had an exhibition of "works" They >asked me for examples of my own work. I gave them photographic >enlargements of the work of about 12 of my students, with their names >and my own "blurb" about them. The College told me they had only room >for about 2-3. They ended up putting up the display of every single >one that I had selected. The workmanship, the craftsmanship was too >good for them to ignore. Guess who was "clucking away".... I didn't >need to give the College examples of MY work. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 20:46:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:45:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: softcom.net!mthaxton From: "Melissa Thaxton" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Add me to the list Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 19:30:05 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec7.11305.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks Mike, If I recall when I bought it they were out of the "plain" 60/40 so she sold me the Ultimate stuff. I will take your advise and try out regular 60/40. Melissa -----Original Message----- From: M. Savad To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, December 07, 1997 7:30 AM Subject: Re: Add me to the list >Melissa Thaxton wrote: >> >> Hi Dawn, >> Well Rachael is 7 1/2 months now and she is sooo active! >> already pulling up on everything, can't keep her down. I am still >> breastfeeding but only part time. >> >> I have been back to work since August 4th, I absolutely HATE >> my job. Corporate BS sucks. >> >> I have started making boxes when time allows and the garage >> is warm enough. I bought some Ultimate 60/40 solder, I have never used it >> before. I learned on 50/50 and am used to it. When I do my overlay on the >> glass the 60/40 seems to leave a ripple affect in the solder, not smooth as >> I am used to. Maybe you would know what I could use that wouldn't ripple or >> hold the heat and crack my boxes, I do real thick overlay's, they look real >> tough. I guess I will have to wait till spring when it warms up again. I >> haven't cracked the glass with the 60/40 though. I can't wait to start on a >> large window. Haven't done one in many years. My problem is I love >> expensive glass, lucky I have about 15 square feet of Fisher I've had since >> 1981. cant wait to use it. I would love to aquire a bit of Lambert glass >> too. >> >> Well I'll send you a picture some time of the kids and the >> kind of boxes I make if you want. >> >> Happy Holidays, >> Melissa >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dawn >> To: glass@bungi.com >> Date: Thursday, December 04, 1997 1:00 PM >> Subject: Re: Add me to the list >> >> >Hey Melissa, >> > >> >This is Dawn. I know what you mean. I was sooooo busy this summer I unsu= >> >bscribed for awhile. But now I'm back it's like being reunited with 300 = >> >close friends! Now that it's winter and dark so early, and now that I = >> >once again have all the extra motivation and inspiration supplied by this= >> > group, I'm back to glass "work" (fun). So since it's Christmas- present= >> >-time I'm back to throwing a quick supper on the table and running down = >> >to my workshop in the basement where I hide out working till 2:30 or 3:00= >> > in the morning. (I just can't seem to stop once I have a project so clo= >> >se to completion. I can't wait to see the end product.) >> > >> >What kind of interesting Christmas projects is everyone out there doing? >> > >> >Now to the important non-glass part of the message...how's your baby doin= >> >g, and how are you managing to get any glass work done? (Okay, well, it = >> >is slightly glass related.) >> > >> >Dawn >> > >> >---- >> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >60/40 and ultimate are 2 different solders BTW. ultimate instanly >freezes, your hand might be shaking causing the uneveness. though that >is a decorative technique. plain 60/40 works just as good, and you >should'nt get the ripples, and it's cheaper then ultimate. > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A >Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 7 23:15:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:14:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:13:07, -0500 Message-ID: <199712080713.CAA17320@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len writes: The only graphics program I have is *paint* that came with Win95. I know I can't get get it full size I just want a scale drawing for sketching. I guess what I'm trying to say is how do you measure lines with *paint*....if you can at all. Your humble student Len Len, I don't think Paint will easily measure lines. You might down load the free demo copy of American Bevel Designer. That program can be set for in, mm or cm. You cannot print from the demo but it will do a good job making the drawings you describe. The bad news is that a fully functional copy is about $120.00. Then you can print scaled on one sheet of paper or full scale on several sheets. If you use it, it is well worth it. Wishing it was free like Bungi, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 06:02:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:00:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:00:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971208090352.3287b95a@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I don't understand how the conversations drift back and forth re:methods one chooses to use to reach desired effect.... what difference does it make... Whether you consider it an art or a craft... it is hardly a static field... but constantly evolving... seems natural to me that the tools of the trade would not stay the same either. I am in the food business by trade and would not consider giving up the refrigeration I have or the stainless steel tools I now use.... and thanks to many innovative chefs in the industry... food is better than ever !! I still consider myself an "newbie" to stained glass, but using and perfecting the use of the tools available today is part of the pleasure I take in practicing my projects... I may never be the artist that many of you are... but I like what I am doing and don't think the process of how I got there is what I see when I look at a finished piece that I am very proud of....... For those of you that grind... with a grinder, (like I do).... I say, do exactly what you would like to do..... At 10:06 AM 12/7/97 -0500, you wrote: >Albert Lewis wrote: >> >> > All this to grind or not to grind.... one needs to make clear if one >> > is working in foil or in lead came. I work in foil, so far, and grind all >> > the edges, no matter how good the cut, so that I don't get cut when foiling. >> >> Ah, you don't need a grinder to protect yourself from cuts; just take >> another piece of glass and "whet" the newly cut piece with it just >> like you're sharpening a knife ... that's the traditional way of >> doing it and it works just fine ... and at much less expense. >> >> Albert >> >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >does'nt that chip the glass? i guess if your working with came, the came >will hide the chips. but in foil, you'll see the chips, maybe cut your >hand in the process, and possibly get a chip in your eye. plus of course >that only works on the thinist edge, a deep flare won't be removed... > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A >Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Barbara Snell Cornell University ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 07:25:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 07:23:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Add me to the list Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 10:20:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.52033.0> References: <<1997Dec7.11305.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Melissa Thaxton wrote: > > Thanks Mike, > If I recall when I bought it they were out of the "plain" > 60/40 so she sold me the Ultimate stuff. I will take your advise and try > out regular 60/40. > Melissa > -----Original Message----- > From: M. Savad > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Sunday, December 07, 1997 7:30 AM > Subject: Re: Add me to the list > > >Melissa Thaxton wrote: > >> > >> Hi Dawn, > >> Well Rachael is 7 1/2 months now and she is sooo active! > >> already pulling up on everything, can't keep her down. I am still > >> breastfeeding but only part time. > >> > >> I have been back to work since August 4th, I absolutely > HATE > >> my job. Corporate BS sucks. > >> > >> I have started making boxes when time allows and the > garage > >> is warm enough. I bought some Ultimate 60/40 solder, I have never used > it > >> before. I learned on 50/50 and am used to it. When I do my overlay on > the > >> glass the 60/40 seems to leave a ripple affect in the solder, not smooth > as > >> I am used to. Maybe you would know what I could use that wouldn't ripple > or > >> hold the heat and crack my boxes, I do real thick overlay's, they look > real > >> tough. I guess I will have to wait till spring when it warms up again. > I > >> haven't cracked the glass with the 60/40 though. I can't wait to start > on a > >> large window. Haven't done one in many years. My problem is I love > >> expensive glass, lucky I have about 15 square feet of Fisher I've had > since > >> 1981. cant wait to use it. I would love to aquire a bit of Lambert > glass > >> too. > >> > >> Well I'll send you a picture some time of the kids and > the > >> kind of boxes I make if you want. > >> > >> Happy Holidays, > >> Melissa > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Dawn > >> To: glass@bungi.com > >> Date: Thursday, December 04, 1997 1:00 PM > >> Subject: Re: Add me to the list > >> > >> >Hey Melissa, > >> > > >> >This is Dawn. I know what you mean. I was sooooo busy this summer I > unsu= > >> >bscribed for awhile. But now I'm back it's like being reunited with 300 > = > >> >close friends! Now that it's winter and dark so early, and now that I = > >> >once again have all the extra motivation and inspiration supplied by > this= > >> > group, I'm back to glass "work" (fun). So since it's Christmas- > present= > >> >-time I'm back to throwing a quick supper on the table and running down > = > >> >to my workshop in the basement where I hide out working till 2:30 or > 3:00= > >> > in the morning. (I just can't seem to stop once I have a project so > clo= > >> >se to completion. I can't wait to see the end product.) > >> > > >> >What kind of interesting Christmas projects is everyone out there doing? > >> > > >> >Now to the important non-glass part of the message...how's your baby > doin= > >> >g, and how are you managing to get any glass work done? (Okay, well, it > = > >> >is slightly glass related.) > >> > > >> >Dawn > >> > > >> >---- > >> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >> >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >> > >> ---- > >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > >60/40 and ultimate are 2 different solders BTW. ultimate instanly > >freezes, your hand might be shaking causing the uneveness. though that > >is a decorative technique. plain 60/40 works just as good, and you > >should'nt get the ripples, and it's cheaper then ultimate. > > > >---Mike Savad > > > >-- > >Mike's Stained Glass > >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > > New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A > >Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass just so you know to alleviate confusion at the store or anywhere else, ultimate is 63/37. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 09:06:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:04:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:13:54 -0600 Message-ID: <199712081702.LAA11332@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 8:12 AM Subject: Re: Cutting glass Hi Barbara, > I don't understand how the conversations drift back and forth >re:methods one chooses to use to reach desired effect.... what difference >does it make... > Whether you consider it an art or a craft... it is hardly a static >field... but constantly evolving... seems natural to me that the tools of >the trade would not stay the same either. > I am in the food business by trade and would not consider giving up >the refrigeration I 'll use your own analogies to help make the opinions of some of the bungi pros a little clearer Heres a hypothetical..........salesperson shows up and demonstrates a so called innovative product... a new machine that has the capability of opening a refrigerator door for you.... its complex, costs a lot of money , prone to fail and does not open the door as fast as you can open it by hand ........would you buy it just because its a new , hi-tech gadget ? >thanks to many innovative chefs in the industry... food is better than ever !! Where do these innovations originate? I do a little cooking myself. There are hundreds of kitchen gadgets available but how often do you see a pro chef ever use any of them? Very rarely in my experience. They use quality hand tools, well sharpened knives and their own highly developed sense of flavors, knowledge of ingredients, balance, texture and timing. Chefs use whisks instead of black and decker cordless hand held super mixers because of more *feel* more *oneness with the egg whites* Bakers kneed by hand for the same reason. Chefs chop, mince and dice by hand because each ingredient requires a certain touch for it to come out right... something that can't be acheived with a food processor. Besides when you take into account a food processor's setup and cleaning time an experienced hand is faster. A great cook can take any old fish an old frying pan a little oil and some salt and pepper, and thats it... and present a taste sensation that you will never forget. A great glass artist can do the same with what some might think of as a bunch of junk scrap a glass and along with a cutter, lead and solder construct a work of art. If the mind set is such that your not prepared create without a pattern book , just the right glass, a diamond saw and a morton thingy those are self-imposed limitations. Its not a matter of right or wrong. The advise that you see from glass artists on this list has more to do with offering direction to bunginians who want to develope artistic skills then to contridicting anyone's choice of methods. >perfecting the use of the tools available today is part of the pleasure I >take in practicing my projects... I may never be the artist that many of you >are.. Sure you can, work on perfecting the ultimate tool, the one that is located between your ears :-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 09:38:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:35:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists Subject: Glass Etch Cream Danger Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:42:09 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I thought you might be interested in the following notice that appeared in ACTS FACTS' latest issue: Glass-Etch is Among Products to be Regulated 62 FR 61928-61933, November 20, 1997 The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) proposes to require child-resistant packaging for products containing more than the equivalent of 50 milligrams or 0.5% elemental fluoride. Examples of such products are rust removers, metal cleaners, and glass etch. Glass etching creams are often touted as "non-toxic" because they don't contain hydrofluoric acid. However, they generate this acid when in contact with glass and they are highly toxic by skin contact and ingestion. CPSC reports that a 56 year old man died after ingesting a spoonful of glass etching cream (20% ammonium bifluoride and 13% sodium bifluoride). If a spoonful can kill an adult male, clearly child-proof packaging is indicated. The CPSC says they are "especially interested in obtaining information and receiving comments on the uses and marketing patterns of glass etching creams." People who have this data can contact Jacqueline Ferrante at (301) 504-0477 ext. 1199. Reported in ACTS FACTS, Vol. 11, No. 12, December 1997. You can subscribe to this monthly newsletter, published by ACTS (Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety), Inc., a nonprofit organization. It's $10/year in the US from ACTS, 181 Thompson Street #23, New York NY 10012. Monona Rossol, who heads up ACTS, is also a member of the Advisory Committee of the International Guild of Glass Artists. There's a link to their web site on the Guild's home page, too. Albert Lewis, Executive Director ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 09:39:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:35:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glass supplies Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 17:06:23 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.17623.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 02:29 08/12/97 +0000, Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK. wrote: > >YES, there ARE alternatives to Tempsford Glass.... EliZabeth in Bournemouth could possibly provide a very interesting >further link... I wonder what she has to say / think about pitting >herself against "suppliers" like Tempsford who are quite categorical >and arrogant as regards their claims....... I wondered if anyone else out there was irritated by TSG's attitude - in fact when I noticed that their web pages all start by saying "the only UK stainedglass company with a web presence" I emailed them pointing out that even if this was true when their web pages were designed, it was obviously not true now. After several messages back and forth they have amended their home page only to add the phrase "(of any consequence)" and left the offending phrase untouched on every other page. I think that sums up their attitude to life in general. As to finding other stained glass suppliers, contact Hetleys (http://www.hetley.co.uk) who have finally got their site going and do have a page showing the location of their distributors, of whom we are one. You have to first click on "catalogue" and then look on the right top corner I think to click on the word "Distributors". Regards Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 09:39:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:35:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: catching up on missing mail Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 17:06:24 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.17624.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Somehow I got dropped from the list over the weekend, with my last message received being from Joyce Moran about removing gunge from soldered pieces (on Sat, 06 Dec 1997 11:08:39 -0500) As this is a first for me, where can I look for the mising emails to catch up? Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 09:40:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:39:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: new page Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 12:09:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.7930.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk i found this page a while ago: http://www.tiffany-glas.ch/forbes.html ---Mike Savad Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 09:50:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:04:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:13:54 -0600 Message-ID: <199712081702.LAA11332@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 8:12 AM Subject: Re: Cutting glass Hi Barbara, > I don't understand how the conversations drift back and forth >re:methods one chooses to use to reach desired effect.... what difference >does it make... > Whether you consider it an art or a craft... it is hardly a static >field... but constantly evolving... seems natural to me that the tools of >the trade would not stay the same either. > I am in the food business by trade and would not consider giving up >the refrigeration I 'll use your own analogies to help make the opinions of some of the bungi pros a little clearer Heres a hypothetical..........salesperson shows up and demonstrates a so called innovative product... a new machine that has the capability of opening a refrigerator door for you.... its complex, costs a lot of money , prone to fail and does not open the door as fast as you can open it by hand ........would you buy it just because its a new , hi-tech gadget ? >thanks to many innovative chefs in the industry... food is better than ever !! Where do these innovations originate? I do a little cooking myself. There are hundreds of kitchen gadgets available but how often do you see a pro chef ever use any of them? Very rarely in my experience. They use quality hand tools, well sharpened knives and their own highly developed sense of flavors, knowledge of ingredients, balance, texture and timing. Chefs use whisks instead of black and decker cordless hand held super mixers because of more *feel* more *oneness with the egg whites* Bakers kneed by hand for the same reason. Chefs chop, mince and dice by hand because each ingredient requires a certain touch for it to come out right... something that can't be acheived with a food processor. Besides when you take into account a food processor's setup and cleaning time an experienced hand is faster. A great cook can take any old fish an old frying pan a little oil and some salt and pepper, and thats it... and present a taste sensation that you will never forget. A great glass artist can do the same with what some might think of as a bunch of junk scrap a glass and along with a cutter, lead and solder construct a work of art. If the mind set is such that your not prepared create without a pattern book , just the right glass, a diamond saw and a morton thingy those are self-imposed limitations. Its not a matter of right or wrong. The advise that you see from glass artists on this list has more to do with offering direction to bunginians who want to develope artistic skills then to contridicting anyone's choice of methods. >perfecting the use of the tools available today is part of the pleasure I >take in practicing my projects... I may never be the artist that many of you >are.. Sure you can, work on perfecting the ultimate tool, the one that is located between your ears :-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 09:58:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:57:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: catching up on missing mail Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:57:23 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "catching up on missing mail" on Dec 8, 17:06, "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" writes:] > received being from Joyce Moran about removing gunge from soldered pieces > (on Sat, 06 Dec 1997 11:08:39 -0500) > As this is a first for me, where can I look for the mising emails to catch up? You can read the archives at http://www.bungi.com/glass/ -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 09:59:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:58:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: computer design software Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:07:57 -0600 Message-ID: <199712081756.LAA14727@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi folks, As I said in a previous post I am a total newbie when it comes to doing layouts on a computer and I was looking for a program to use for making scaled line drawings on paper to use for sketching. I was warned by a friend who works with computer graphics that the main shortcoming of computers is lack of any what we humans call intuition and that art programs would make this painfully obvious. I down loaded *paint shop pro* first and discovered what he meant. Very tedious esoteric commands that would take a very intense learning process on my part. Not what I was after I tried *draw plus* a little easier to understand but no ruler or other measuring capabilities that I could find. I then downloaded a program called *smart draw* this was more like it......its designed for making templetes for forms, flow charts and the like. I only spent a little time with it but it seems to have the features that I am after.... good measuring capabilities.... lots of easily manipulated geometric shapes built in... friendly formatting tools.....ease of connectivity between geometric forms... and most of all I sort of understand it :-) I think I will be able to get some useful work out of this program. *smart draw* can be found at http://www.smartdraw.com Looking foward to some comments on this software as a layout tool for SG Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 10:05:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:04:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:17:03 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: "Toby" > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Cutting glass > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:51:39 +0000 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > The traditional potter relies on the ability to perceive and > translate with his/her hands. Today the potters wheel may be an > electric one, but that is purely a convenience factor, rather than a > substitute SKILL. The stained glass artist / craftsman relies on his > ability and dexterity in how to use his hands, his body, his balance > to understand, tame and cut glass with his hands. His versitility, > craftsmanship, interpretation rests in what he can do with his bare > hands with this mysterious, frozen temperamental liquid; how to tame > it, train it, master it . .....Almost like befriending, taming a > wild animal, a temperamental wild horse ... even. You don't do THAT > with machinery....An electric glass cutter and an electric grinder is > no SUBSTITUTE. It can never be. The testimony to that is further > emphasized by an earlier "thread" when a Newbie asked of the > "professionals" how often they used a glass grinder (or an electric > glass-cutter). The resounding reply was: Hardly ever!! > Quite right too! > > Machinery is an AIDE, but NEVER a SUBSTITUTE to good and honest > and proud craftsmanship! Len expressed a mild comment of surprise > about "hand cutting" being an OPTION for consideration. (... and > remember! - he has artheritis in his hands!!) Quite simply, it being > an OPTION, just does not come into it. Sweat it out and learn > good, honest, proud and well-crafted HAND-Cutting as a matter of > principle and pride, THEN you can call yourself a Craftsman. Forgive > the pun, but there are NO short-cuts. > What about the electrically heated, rheostat controlled soldering iron? Shouldn't the true craftsman heat an iron rod in a fire? Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 10:15:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:15:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: televar.com!fishbait From: Fishbait To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: "For Her" Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 09:18:32 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.11832.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am looking for a pattern book that is apparently out of print now. It is called "For Her" by Suzanne Cooper. If any of you have an extra in your shop I would be interested in purchasing it. You can e-mail me privately at fishbait@televar.com if you have one you would be willing to part with. Bonnie Clark Ellensburg, Washington ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 10:34:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:33:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Cutting glass Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:33:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.83356.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I don't have a saw and don't have any plans of getting one. I've been at = this hobby for a year or so and find that I am getting much better at = cutting the glass. It seems that if I can get a good line on my pattern, = I can scor right on the line pretty well. I can't explain how I do it; = it just happened with practice. I do still use the grinder, once lightly = around each piece so I don't cut my fingers putting the foil on. Just my 2 cents, Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 11:27:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:25:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: jandj@tvutel.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Location - Twin Valley, MN Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 13:26:25 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.72625.0> References: <<1997Dec2.161528.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Northernlights wrote: > > Glad to see another Minnesotan in the group! Alas, I have to admit I'm > not familiar with Twin Valley -- where is that in relation to the Twin > Cities???? > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Sorry it too so long to get back..... I am by Fargo/Moorhead. Closer to the Northlights then you :-) Jackie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 11:32:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:31:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: jandj@tvutel.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: need pattern Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 13:31:59 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.73159.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone know were I can find a stained glass pattern for a semi truck? A 18 wheeler to be exact. I need one to make a panel for a trucking company for christmas gift. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Jackie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 11:33:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:33:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!SGibson7 From: SGibson7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: remove from mailing list (temporary) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:45:44 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec8.164544.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Please remove me from mailing list (temporary) Thanks SGibson7 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 12:08:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:07:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ictc.com!bankers From: "The Banker's House" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:09:28 -0600 Message-ID: <199712082012.OAA02208@ns.ictc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Okay.... here goes, I have thus far only asked for help on specific questions, and luckily been able to offer the same help to another. Now I am going to attempt to share an "opinion"..... and I hope it will be taken as such..... MY opinion..... not meant to ruffle any feathers, or to put "anyone" in their place. I appreciate the comments made by (Elizabeth) I believe... in the following message.... I was truly moved by the verbiage, and the analogies used. I felt like an artist.... a creator for a change, and not like an assembly line worker. So often I find myself wondering where the creativity and artistry of stained glass has gone.... especially with the flood of cheap, mass produced stained glass 'tiffany' lamps that are available at Sears and JCPenny's...... I can't compete with those prices, and the average consumer knows no-better! Quality and Craftsmanship are really worth paying for in the long run. To often I find myself cutting a simple pattern, pasting up, simple cuts, grinding, foiling, soldering, applying patina, waxing...... all in assembly line fashion. This is when glass-work truly loses its charm.... and I feel like an extension of a machine. I think the comments made have been an attempt to reverse this, and make the machine a mere extension of the HUMAN.... thus bringing the artistry back into stained glass..... I for one was moved by the comments made.... and feel somewhat renewed and rejuvenated..... This was the section that I particularly enjoyed... in fact I copied it and hung it above my bench... > ability and dexterity in how to use his hands, his body, his balance > > to understand, tame and cut glass with his hands. His versitility, > > craftsmanship, interpretation rests in what he can do with his bare > > hands with this mysterious, frozen temperamental liquid; how to tame > > it, train it, master it . .....Almost like befriending, taming a > > wild animal, a temperamental wild horse ... even. You don't do THAT > > with machinery.... And I would like to reiterate that I am not trying to 'force' this opinion on anyone.... in my situation.... it was a really inspiring, and much needed elixir. Thank you!!! Dale Bentley $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The Banker's House Home of the Buffalo Gang "It is better to spend money like there is no tomorrow, Than to spend tonight like there is no money!" $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ---------- > From: Don McDonald > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Cutting glass > Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 5:17 AM > > > From: "Toby" > > To: glass@bungi.com > > Subject: Re: Cutting glass > > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:51:39 +0000 > > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > > > The traditional potter relies on the ability to perceive and > > translate with his/her hands. Today the potters wheel may be an > > electric one, but that is purely a convenience factor, rather than a > > substitute SKILL. The stained glass artist / craftsman relies on his > > ability and dexterity in how to use his hands, his body, his balance > > to understand, tame and cut glass with his hands. His versitility, > > craftsmanship, interpretation rests in what he can do with his bare > > hands with this mysterious, frozen temperamental liquid; how to tame > > it, train it, master it . .....Almost like befriending, taming a > > wild animal, a temperamental wild horse ... even. You don't do THAT > > with machinery....An electric glass cutter and an electric grinder is > > no SUBSTITUTE. It can never be. The testimony to that is further > > emphasized by an earlier "thread" when a Newbie asked of the > > "professionals" how often they used a glass grinder (or an electric > > glass-cutter). The resounding reply was: Hardly ever!! > > Quite right too! > > > > Machinery is an AIDE, but NEVER a SUBSTITUTE to good and honest > > and proud craftsmanship! Len expressed a mild comment of surprise > > about "hand cutting" being an OPTION for consideration. (... and > > remember! - he has artheritis in his hands!!) Quite simply, it being > > an OPTION, just does not come into it. Sweat it out and learn > > good, honest, proud and well-crafted HAND-Cutting as a matter of > > principle and pride, THEN you can call yourself a Craftsman. Forgive > > the pun, but there are NO short-cuts. > > > > What about the electrically heated, rheostat controlled soldering > iron? Shouldn't the true craftsman heat an iron rod in a fire? > > Don M. McDonald > Web Design > Corporate Communications Technology > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 12:34:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:33:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ou.edu!dfdavis From: "Davis, Denise F" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Lamp shade classes Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:33:33 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.83333.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have been asked to teach a lamp shade class using either the Worden or Odyssey systems. Did anyone compile Howard Rubin's advice on shade making before he left the list? If so, I would love to have a copy of it. I have looked in the archives and have found some info, but could not find everything--such as his instructions on making the bottom row of the cone shaped form when it is supposed to slant inward toward the center of the shade. I found references to his technique, but could not find the actual instructions. I would love to have his input. Other questions I have are: Worden or Odyssey for beginning Tiffany style shades? What size shade do you recommend? How many pieces? How many classes? How many hours per class? How long between classes? Any other advice from anyone who has taught this sort of class is welcome. I have learned a lot from this group and feel I have grown as an artist because of it. Thank you all. Denise Davis Norman, Oklahoma, USA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 13:01:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:00:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: exmail.usma.army.mil!yj3673 From: "McLaughlin, J. COL DENTAC" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: need pattern Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:47:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.104759.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk There is a lot of clip art of trucks that can be adapted to a pattern. I know CorelDraw has a bunch. Good Luck. John > ---------- > available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 13:18:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:17:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mfi.net!jcampbell From: "jcampbell" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Mon, 08 Dec 97 16:52:59 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec9.05259.0> References: <<199712082012.OAA02208@ns.ictc.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Amen! I too am tired of seeing laser glass and poorly put together Tiffan= y "style" lamps around. We enjoy creating Tiffany Reproductions and woul= d like to sell them which we do but not like we could if it were not for = the imitations; none of them use tiffany repoduction art glass. We enjoy= a customer who appreciates the craft.t kily been able to offer the same help to another. Now I > am going to attempt to share an "opinion"..... and I hope it will be = taken > as such..... MY opinion..... not meant to ruffle any feathers, or to = put > "anyone" in their place. > I appreciate the comments made by (Elizabeth) I believe... in the > following message.... I was truly moved by the verbiage, and the analog= ies > used. I felt like an artist.... a creator for a change, and not like = an > assembly line worker. > So often I find myself wondering where the creativity and artistry of > stained glass has gone.... especially with the flood of cheap, mass > produced stained glass 'tiffany' lamps that are available at Sears and > JCPenny's...... I can't compete with those prices, and the average cons= umer > knows no-better! Quality and Craftsmanship are really worth paying for= in > the long run. > To often I find myself cutting a simple pattern, pasting up, simple > cuts, > grinding, foiling, soldering, applying patina, waxing...... all in asse= mbly > line fashion. This is when glass-work truly loses its charm.... and = I feel > like an extension of a machine. > I think the comments made have been an attempt to reverse this, and = make > the machine a mere extension of the HUMAN.... thus bringing the artistr= y > back into stained glass..... > I for one was moved by the comments made.... and feel somewhat renewed > and > rejuvenated..... This was the section that I particularly enjoyed... = in > fact I copied it and hung it above my bench... > > > > ability and dexterity in how to use his hands, his body, his balanc= e > > > to understand, tame and cut glass with his hands. His versitility, = > > > craftsmanship, interpretation rests in what he can do with his bare > > > hands with this mysterious, frozen temperamental liquid; how to tam= e > > > it, train it, master it . .....Almost like befriending, taming a = > > > wild animal, a temperamental wild horse ... even. You don't do THAT > > > with machinery.... > > And I would like to reiterate that I am not trying to 'force' this opin= ion > on anyone.... in my situation.... it was a really inspiring, and much > needed elixir. > Thank you!!! > > Dale Bentley > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > The Banker's House > Home of the Buffalo Gang > "It is better to spend money like there is no tomorrow, > Than to spend tonight like there is no money!" > > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > > ---------- > > From: Don McDonald > > To: glass@bungi.com > > Subject: Re: Cutting glass > > Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 5:17 AM > > > > > From: "Toby" > > > To: glass@bungi.com > > > Subject: Re: Cutting glass > > > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:51:39 +0000 > > > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > > > > > The traditional potter relies on the ability to perceive and > > > translate with his/her hands. Today the potters wheel may be an > > > electric one, but that is purely a convenience factor, rather than = a > > > substitute SKILL. The stained glass artist / craftsman relies on = his > > > ability and dexterity in how to use his hands, his body, his balanc= e > > > to understand, tame and cut glass with his hands. His versitility, = > > > craftsmanship, interpretation rests in what he can do with his bare > > > hands with this mysterious, frozen temperamental liquid; how to tam= e > > > it, train it, master it . .....Almost like befriending, taming a = > > > wild animal, a temperamental wild horse ... even. You don't do THAT > > > with machinery....An electric glass cutter and an electric grinder = is > > > no SUBSTITUTE. It can never be. The testimony to that is further = > > > emphasized by an earlier "thread" when a Newbie asked of the > > > "professionals" how often they used a glass grinder (or an electric > > > glass-cutter). The resounding reply was: Hardly ever!! > > > Quite right too! > > > > > > Machinery is an AIDE, but NEVER a SUBSTITUTE to good and honest > > > and proud craftsmanship! Len expressed a mild comment of surprise = > > > about "hand cutting" being an OPTION for consideration. (... and = > > > remember! - he has artheritis in his hands!!) Quite simply, it bein= g > > > an OPTION, just does not come into it. Sweat it out and learn > > > good, honest, proud and well-crafted HAND-Cutting as a matter of = > > > principle and pride, THEN you can call yourself a Craftsman. Forgiv= e > > > the pun, but there are NO short-cuts. > > > > > > > What about the electrically heated, rheostat controlled soldering > > iron? Shouldn't the true craftsman heat an iron rod in a fire? > > > > Don M. McDonald > > Web Design > > Corporate Communications Technology > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 13:27:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:26:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tznet.com!diacca From: Pat Diacca Topp To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Computer woes again Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 15:26:06 -0600 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971208152606.00794310@mail.tznet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk HI! I guess I sent the entire file last time, well, heregoes another try. COMPUTER WOES Guess this thing is working now, at least for a little while? Basically, a year and a half ago, I had originally asked a computer guru what kind and what systems did I need in computers to do the work that I explained that I wanted to do. Well, he recommended DELL. DELL also this year got the highest rating for quality and performance. WELL, I GOT A LARGE LEMON. The biggest problem, was that since I was a newbie, I never knew when it wasn’t working right, whether it was me or "IT" causing the snags. Well, "IT" did have some major problems right away, and DELL was true to their word and sent a new Mother Board and a technician to install it. And it did work a bit better. But somehow I seemed to be struggling more than I should for the next year. Met a computer technician here locally a few months ago, originally trained by the Navy and worked on the Scud Missiles. Was having major problems working in the graphics that I needed to do, so he made some suggestions on what additional memory (spelled money) etc. he felt would take care of the problem. OK, so I did that. Problems increased! Finally he came over and took the whole works home with him to figure out what was going on. That’s when he discovered that the machine has been running on bad RAM memory. DELL replaced that, and still the problems continued. Currently think we have it solved, as the Hard Drive unit is kaput also! So am waiting for that also to be replaced. I have two. By the way when the DELL technician installed the Mother Board over a year ago, he failed to set some switches correctly, and compounded all of the other problems. Glad the new technician is on the ball, at least when all the new parts are in, it really should work. What I will have is a new computer under the old case. We are knocking on wood that the power supply unit is OK as that is all of the original equipment left. Soooooo.......After the Xmas rush maybe I can get back to the graphics I want to put up on my unfinished Web Page. Been working two months on an electric typewriter and copy machine to get my letters out to customers. But they have responded well, I had a banner week, hope it keeps up as I still have "memory" bills to pay. :-) Will be swamped from now until Xmas, so all you out there 'HAVE A GOOD ONE'..........Pat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 13:44:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:42:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass supplies Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:50:30 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I wondered if anyone else out there was irritated by TSG's attitude - in > fact when I noticed that their web pages all start by saying "the only UK > stainedglass company with a web presence" Oh, there are a couple of US studios with the same attitude. I don't think that even their customers believe them. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 13:44:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:42:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: new page Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 21:37:45 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.213745.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 12:09 08/12/97 -0500, Mike Savad wrote: >i found this page a while ago: > >http://www.tiffany-glas.ch/forbes.html > If after visiting the site Mike mentioned you want to find out more about their creation and other output of the studio try to get hold of a copy of "The Art Glass Windows of Bonny Doon" which has many more pics of their windows, with in progress photos too. The book may be out of print now but was published by Hidden House Publications, Palo Alto, CA. ISBN: 0-8256-3856-9. Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 14:04:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:03:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re : country Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 21:58:44 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.215844.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 09:03 08/12/97 -0400, Rosemary Holstrum(rholmstr@daemen.edu) wrote - off bungi: >>As Rosemary Holmstrom says "vive la difference". >>Elizabeth=20 >>Bournemouth Stained Glass > > > >Ah, I quote Confucius and you quote Rosemary Holmstrom -- how very interesting. > >But, seriously, I do have a question. When you "soak 'em for $50.00" do >you still get that quiet feeling of pride in the beauty of the art -- or do >you just get a quick rush at hearing the 'clink of the coin?' > >I think something suffers here -- and I don't believe its the "Country folk." > >But, to each his own. Hey, there's another one you can quote!! > >Rosemary Holstrum I think something has gone sour in the ether here. I was just telling the group what one of our customers has found to be a lucrative item to sell on her craft stall, following a joking suggestion from another member for possible items to offer to people wanting to buy stained glass with a country theme. I was not passing a value judgement on my customer's ethics, but wanted to show how something quick to make can appeal to the buying public, so I don't appreciate the question posed above which when emailed comes over as a sarcastic remark on my own ethics. Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 14:34:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:33:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass supplies Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:35:26 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.213526.0> References: <<1997Dec7.211629.0@?>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <1997Dec7.211629.0@?>, David A Outram writes > >can you let me know if there is a stained gless supplier closer than >Tempsford. .... By the way I'm in luton and don't fancy jetting up >the A1(M). > >Thanks for the assistance. > James Hetley, a part of TW Ide, in London's east end (Glasshouse Fields) is a big retailer of glass and products for leaded and stained glass supplies. BUT you might want to check out the prices between the two. > >David A Outram >Network Support Officer >University of Luton Email David.Outram@Luton.ac.uk >Phone 01582 743242 Fax 01582 489318 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 17:26:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:24:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: inspace.net!herba From: "Herb Adler" To: "Stained Glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: test Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:25:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.15258.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk test Herb in Orlando ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 17:32:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:30:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!kdeck From: kdeck@juno.com (k a s) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Glass 101: Nightlights Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 18:52:41 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec8.235241.0> References: <<1997Aug6.5252.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Happy Holidays All, Been staring at some nightlight brackets today and wondering if there's a correct way to attach the glass to them. Have studied some I've seen at retailers, crafts shows and it appears that there are several different ways to mount the copper foiled project. Foiling over the back flat top of the "T" and catching the glass??? Bending the back top of the "T" forward and then crimping a edge for the glass to rest in ??? Bending the 'arms' of the "T" to hold the glass ??? Sorry if this sounds so vague and basic but if anyone has any tips or tricks to share... Thanks in advance, Karen Troll from Northern Michigan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 17:36:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:35:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: need pattern Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 19:30:51 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.113051.0> References: <<1997Dec8.73159.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I can send you a CorelDraw Graphic of an 18 wheeler. Pat jandj@tvutel.com wrote: > Does anyone know were I can find a stained glass pattern for a semi > truck? A 18 wheeler to be exact. I need one to make a panel for a > trucking company for christmas gift. Any suggestions would be > appreciated. > > Jackie > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 18:18:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:17:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ideal.jf.intel.com!lynice From: "L. Spangler" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Glass 101: Nightlights Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:12:45 -0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.181245.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The brackets I've used are 1.5" wide brass strips. At each end, the strip had been split lengthwise to about 1/3 the length of the whole strip. The bottom 1/2 strips were bent in toward each other to make the part that wraps around the bulb base. The top 1/2 of the strip remains flat. I soldered the flat piece of the bracket onto the back of the bottom of the "front" piece of the shade (after foiling, of course). The bracket I had was brass, so I just fluxed and soldered, no need to wrap with foil. I've also seen them siliconed on, but it looked pretty globby. I'd be willing to try a 2-part epoxy, too. On Monday, December 08, 1997 11:53 PM, k a s [SMTP:kdeck@juno.com] wrote: > Happy Holidays All, > > Been staring at some nightlight brackets today and wondering if there's a > correct way to attach the glass to them. Have studied some I've seen at > retailers, crafts shows and it appears that there are several different > ways to mount the copper foiled project. > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 18:28:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:27:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cyberramp.net!byronw From: byronw@cyberramp.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: computer design software Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:29:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199712090227.UAA04214@mailhost.cyberramp.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: "len alcamo" > To: > Subject: computer design software > Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:07:57 -0600 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > Hi folks, > > As I said in a previous post I am a total newbie when it comes to doing > layouts on a computer and I was looking for a program to use for making > scaled line drawings on paper to use for sketching. > > I was warned by a friend who works with computer graphics that the main > shortcoming of computers is lack of any what we humans call intuition and > that art programs would make this painfully obvious. > > I down loaded *paint shop pro* first and discovered what he meant. Very > tedious esoteric commands that would take a very intense learning process > on my part. Not what I was after > > I tried *draw plus* a little easier to understand but no ruler or other > measuring capabilities that I could find. > > I then downloaded a program called *smart draw* this was more like > it......its designed for making templetes for forms, flow charts and the > like. I only spent a little time with it but it seems to have the features > that I am after.... good measuring capabilities.... lots of easily > manipulated geometric shapes built in... friendly formatting tools.....ease > of connectivity between geometric forms... and most of all I sort of > understand it :-) > I think I will be able to get some useful work out of this program. > > > *smart draw* can be found at http://www.smartdraw.com > > Looking foward to some comments on this software as a layout tool for SG > > Len Hi Len.. I use The Glass Eye from Dragonfly Software quite a bit and like it so far... You can download a demo version that does everything but save and print from thier site at http://www.dfly.com American bevel also has one called Designer that I havent gotten round to using yet even tho I bought it months ago... I just havent had time to sit down and learn how to use it yet.. They also have a site where you can DL a demo version at http://www.americanbevel.com Hope this helps! Byron... Wells Glassworks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 18:50:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 18:49:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stratos.net!ted From: "Theodore P. Hasenstaub" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: New Web Page Date: Mon, 08 Dec 97 10:00:30 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec8.18030.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I finally have my web page up and running. If you would like to take a = look the address is http://members.stratos.net/ted Your comments are welcome. Ted@stratos.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 19:03:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:02:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!clipper1 From: clipper1@erols.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:06:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971208225702.2fa793b4@pop.erols.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Okay, I haven't offered on opinions on anything but websites and computer programs until now, but as a 'techie' and a student of the history of technology I have to put my two cents in here. First, I deeply appreciate how much talent it takes to really do everything by hand using simple, purely mechanical, tools. I have studied the development of a number of crafts. Here, I mean 'craft' in the sense of a method used for producing aesthetic objects (and not in the derogatory sense that appears too often in this discussion group). I also worked one summer on a dig in Israel that focused on ancient technology and how people used the limited tools available in the Bronze Age to create something as impressive as the foundations remaining in Solomon's Temple and the elaborate pottery and jewelry of that period. BUT, along the lines of Don's comment (good one Don!), do you still think that film and photography should not be considered art? Do you think Enya should not be considered an artist because she uses computers and modern recording equipment to layer and enhance her voice? Are architects who design steel and glass buildings on the computer somehow 'rip-offs' compared to their distant predecessors who were limited to wood, stone and paper drawings? And lastly, do you question the ladies at bake sales to find out if their 'homemade' apple pie was baked in a woodburning stove stoked with wood they chopped themselves? ;) Okay, sorry, I'm getting too sarcastic. All crafts, and the arts associated with them, evolve due to changes in available materials, resources, techniques and technologies (as well as social conditions, philosophies, styles, etc.) If you want to insist that nothing can be considered to be 'real' unless it's done the traditional way, you shut out far too many possiblities for artistic advancement. That said, I do think there are certainly technologies can detract from, rather than enhance, a craft. (I saw a plastic "prairie" lamp at Pier 1 recently that made me a bit sick to my stomach.) However, these are usually recognized relatively quickly and pass away as fads. I am convinced that 'fruit lamps' will go the way of 'velvet Elvis'. I also think that learning traditional methods is an important part of achieving mastery in an art. (Heck, my first programming instructor actually made us do our first assignment on *punch cards* so that we would really understand why Fortran is structured the way it is.) However, nearly all major developments in the evolution of any craft come from practioners who transcend the traditional approach - through style and/or through the *creative* use of new resources! When the 'new' form achieved through innovation becomes admired and accepted, it's amazing how fast that 'new' approach comes to belong to the tradition. I don't mean to flame anyone here, just offer my point of view. If I sound too harsh, please chalk it up to devoting myself to a serious profession (engineering) that many 'real scientists' consider to be only one step removed from vocational school. I get a bit annoyed when doing something practical is downgraded for the sake of 'purity'. Carol Ph.D. in Vo-Tech ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 19:14:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:13:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:48:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.164824.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Barbara- I believe someone posted the question "what do the folks with professional shops use (para- phrased)?" The answer came back from quite a few of us who do this for a living that we don't = much use grinders or saws. Why? Because most of us served = apprenticeships with old dogs who wouldn't allow such gadgets on their premises! And now we cut glass well enough and don't need all the bells and whistles. I, for one, would rather spend my money on fine glass than another piece of superfluous equipment. However, anyone else can certainly feel free to spend their money on those things. Perhaps someday I will add a retail operation to my gallery & studio and you can come buy from me!;-) Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 19:25:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:24:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: My poor tongue Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:22:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199712090323.DAA16113@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Bunginians, Now and then there is a "thread" that gets me going. I shoot off my tongue. I want to settle down and send a reply to Peggy, Mary, Phil, Kathe, Steve, Len ,Charles, Michael and many others. I owe them, because they have touched my life. Then I go and screw it all up. I spend 4-5 hours in getting myself embroiled in something... I should know better - at my age... In the last 2-3 days my OFF-Bungi Group private e-mail post has been totally flooded. To 99 per cent - THANK YOU - I am totally overwhelmed. I WILL answer!!! But I must now take a little time out for those people whom I have physically touched and been touched by. In UK a little time delay is needed; since I am a Swede I will need a little more extra time... Bear with me..... Overwhelmed.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 19:25:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:24:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:22:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199712090323.DAA16106@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear EliZabeth (and other UK Bunginians) I am delighted that I (and my students) are not the only ones who have encountered this attitude. I am delighted (in a way) that my fellow "pros" also suffer from similar attitudes I myself have encountered. At first I was willing to accept that "my face didn't fit". I myself had a WEB-page up and running long before Tempsford were out of their "computer nappies". The final motivation for Tempsford to set up a WEB-page, was sparked off by myself on a visit to them about 2 years ago now, when we were discussing computers as a pure conversation topic. I admit freely that although I have their e-mail address, I haven't got their WEB-page address (and hence have never visited it). But the statement you say they make, sounds very typical and I believe you whole-heartedly. If you give me their WEB-page address I will check it out and send them a "total stinker" to add to your complaint about their arrogance. It's a bit much to state that a) they are the ONLY ones etc and then to add insult to injury with the rider ...."of any consequence..." It's a bit rich!! To give credit where credit is due, they ARE good for lamp glass; as regards tools, they are total rip-off merchants. Let me quote THEIR Nov/Dec 97 Newsletter, in their own words: "THE PRICE of our Weller 100 watt temeperature controlled soldering irons is too cheap. Has been for ages. I agree that UK Sterl. 65.60 is a substantial amount of money, and could feed a temple of Tibetan Monks for a period of at least 6 months. But where's the joy in that>? And, you'd get no thanks for it, most likely. Far better to give Tibet & other foreign places a miss and buy a top of the range soldering iron right now, before the price goes up (to UK Sterl. 69.50. Other price increases in the pipeline are....." etc. The style grates.... In October/Nov 97 Newsletter TSG claimed that "certain" retailers charged over UK Sterl. 100 for those irons!! (To put this into perspective to our USA Bunginians = UK Sterl. 100 x 1.7 = US Dollars 170 for a soldering iron!!). Both prices quoted are BEFORE VAT, so the price actually paid are MORE accurately UK Sterl. 77.08 and UK Sterl. 81.66 I send my students to hardware shops in Hitchin and St.Albans where they can buy the SAME iron for UK Sterl. 30 INCLUSIVE of VAT. On the whole, a beginner only needs a 75 W iron (if s/he) does lead) 3 years ago TSG charged about UK.Sterl. 45 for a Weller 75W. and claimed that they offered extra special cheap deal. I sent my students elsewhere where they got the SAME iron for UK.Sterl. 16. I told them to freely say to TSG quite that I. their teacher, theought their tool prices totally outrageous. Considering that I teach 5 classes a week of about 25 - 30 students EACH, 3 times a year, that is a lot of potential customers..... Sure enough, after a lot of hot air in their Newsletters bitching about me (without mentioning my name), they dropped their prices to UK Sterl. 27 PLUS Vat ( as opposed to hardware shop prices of 26 inclusive of VAT). I have now located a well-known & reputable UK manufacturer of a 100 W iron which retails at UK Sterl. 12. For a beginner, this is achievable and s/he has money left over to afford other tools. For mail order they have also increased their prices yet claim, "24 hours delivery is now standard on all orders over 1 kilo". Oh yes! A week ago they omitted to pack glass I went there to buy for a specific requirement in my class. Not only did they try and shift the blame onto me for failing to use x-ray sight to verify their statement of the wrapped package "this is ALL your glass", I have to pay for the freight for THEIR mistake and it has only arrived 6 days later...... I resent the fact that they could not accept responsibility for a "cock-up" in the packing, yet even when I myself pay for their mistake, it STILL does not arrive either according to their promise or when I expect it. When I have ordered lead from them by post, it arrives in a totally mangled and unuseable condition, that I have often had to scrap it. AT LEAST they have the good sense to stock Stilleman's lead. Limited selection, yet OK. I have very much similar stories to tell about other tools they stock and sell. The soldering iron will have to serve as a typical example. The UK Sterl 20 price tag stuck on their catalogues should be enough to rub any "pro" up the wrong way. They pride themselves (in print) in their computer ability to track down a paricular colour, hue and make of glass you may have bought from them months and months ago and to replicate the supply to you. Yet they are unable to verify in the same manner that as a teacher I would have been in line to buy perhaps 50 -75 grozier pliers from them for my students (for example - in addition to other tools). I am NOT a retailer, I cannot finance 100 items of this, 100 items of that and so on, in one go. I tell my students that this is the price of a tool, pay me and I will get it for you. I don't charge them for the 90 - 100 miles trips I have to make frequently to secure the tools However, I would welcome retailers to help me and my students out with a certain amount of discount. For that I am willing to give a kind of "loyalty pledge". It doesn't work short-term, it works per academic year. Not so Tempsford. I can walk in there and spend UK Sterl. 100 - 200 for my students one week, and the next week and the next month, but because I have not spent a ,precise amount of money on any one particular regulated item , there is no way that they will even give me UK Sterl 1 discount after my 6-7 years of dealing with them. So guess what I will tell my students; guess where I will send them to buy the more expensive tools. Certainly NOT to Tempsford - and with good reason. In print they claim how "wonderful" their shop serving time is. When I (or my students) walk in, we all share the experience of hopping about waiting to pay for about 60 - 120 minutes, even when there are only 2 other people in the shop. Going to Tempsford is an entire day wasted. It takes me an hour to get there, an hour to get back, 20 minutes to get I want and two hours to get served!!!! It then takes me half a day to hang around to wait for a delivery of non-packed goods that don't turn up when promised..... And I end up having to pay for it. It then - finally - arrives mangled up or broken. This is not a one-time experience; this is a repeated experience over 6-7 YEARS....... The arrogant attitude grates on me too. I am compiling little by little a compendium of alternative UK sources, retailers, suppliers etc, that are somewhat less arrogant, some-what more user-friendly and somewhat more realistic in what happens in the real world. EliZabeth in Bournoemoth, you could possibly be a big door-opener in this dilemma. You are a retailer (as well), whereas many other of us in UK are not. I would love to see you and encourage you to pitt yourself against Derek and Graham at Tempsford. A little bit of history: Tempsford Glass was born in the Cambridgeshire flatlands in the 70's, the home of the US Air Forces (and home of the American "Mighty 8" in Europe.). Henlow to UK people is very much tied up with The Royal Airforce AND the American Air Force presence in UK; a few miles away , just before coming into Cambridge Town Centre is the American Cemetery; a huge compound and a British National Memorial. Tempsford grew up and cut its teeth by pampering to and supplying bored American Air Force families of a leisure activity (i.e. stained glass). Then, in UK terms, they could charge what they wanted because then in UK, the Americans had money to throw about and plenty of leisure time. Derek was then a young man and ready for a "quick buck". Unfortunately, he has not adjusted, nor did his sons...... Which is why he irritates his REAL customers today with his attitude and "get-rich-quick" policies. That sort of attitude goes down like a lead-balloon. I apologize for confusion about Hetley's here. Elizabeth,in Bournemouth, you are quite right. they moved from Wembley to Glassfields Lane. ( near City Road; Commercial Road, and Smithfield. City OR East End??? EC-something...) The retail Section of Goddards and Gibbs (which was called Stained Glass Supplies) was also sold to TWI, and they moved to south of the Thames (Borough - to be precise). Too many late nights at Bungi rather "fuzzed" my precise details of who is where. From what you say, it would appear that the retail outlets of both Hetley's and Goddards & Gibbs belong to the same chain. ( I hate politics!!) I am quite happy to accept today's realities; I do feel rather tender about Goddards & Gibbs though. I have spent so many happy hours, weeks and months at their studios in Kingsland Road, in their somewhat decrepit studios, up and below stairs, holding my breath at the wizardry of the Old Master Craftsmen who were wheeled in to teach the likes of me.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK At 02:29 08/12/97 +0000, Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK. wrote: > >YES, there ARE alternatives to Tempsford Glass.... EliZabeth in Bournemouth could possibly provide a very interesting >further link... I wonder what she has to say / think about pitting >herself against "suppliers" like Tempsford who are quite categorical >and arrogant as regards their claims....... I wondered if anyone else out there was irritated by TSG's attitude - in fact when I noticed that their web pages all start by saying "the only UK stainedglass company with a web presence" I emailed them pointing out that even if this was true when their web pages were designed, it was obviously not true now. After several messages back and forth they have amended their home page only to add the phrase "(of any consequence)" and left the offending phrase untouched on every other page. I think that sums up their attitude to life in general. As to finding other stained glass suppliers, contact Hetleys (http://www.hetley.co.uk) who have finally got their site going and do have a page showing the location of their distributors, of whom we are one. You have to first click on "catalogue" and then look on the right top corner I think to click on the word "Distributors". ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 19:25:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:24:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:22:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199712090323.DAA16116@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Dale (Bently), Blush... Oh shucks... Thank you... It was EliSabeth (there are 2 of us in the UK; one with a Zed the other with an esS). I hope nobody took offense. And it was a kind of an effort to "redress the balance", even though it's something I actually also fervently believe in.... EliSabeth 'n Toby in UK Amen! I too am tired of seeing laser glass and poorly put together Tiffan= y "style" lamps around. We enjoy creating Tiffany Reproductions and woul= d like to sell them which we do but not like we could if it were not for = the imitations; none of them use tiffany repoduction art glass. We enjoy= a customer who appreciates the craft.t kily been able to offer the same help to another. Now I > am going to attempt to share an "opinion"..... and I hope it will be = taken > as such..... MY opinion..... not meant to ruffle any feathers, or to = put > "anyone" in their place. > I appreciate the comments made by (Elizabeth) I believe... in the > following message.... I was truly moved by the verbiage, and the analog= ies > used. I felt like an artist.... a creator for a change, and not like = an > assembly line worker. > So often I find myself wondering where the creativity and artistry of > stained glass has gone.... especially with the flood of cheap, mass > produced stained glass 'tiffany' lamps that are available at Sears and > JCPenny's...... I can't compete with those prices, and the average cons= umer > knows no-better! Quality and Craftsmanship are really worth paying for= in > the long run. > To often I find myself cutting a simple pattern, pasting up, simple > cuts, > grinding, foiling, soldering, applying patina, waxing...... all in asse= mbly > line fashion. This is when glass-work truly loses its charm.... and = I feel > like an extension of a machine. > I think the comments made have been an attempt to reverse this, and = make > the machine a mere extension of the HUMAN.... thus bringing the artistr= y > back into stained glass..... > I for one was moved by the comments made.... and feel somewhat renewed > and > rejuvenated..... This was the section that I particularly enjoyed... = in > fact I copied it and hung it above my bench... > > > What about the electrically heated, rheostat controlled soldering > > iron? Shouldn't the true craftsman heat an iron rod in a fire? > > > > Don M. McDonald > > Web Design > > Corporate Communications Technology Well Don, You CAN if you like...... I lend you my father's that he left me..... (For the fun of it, I have learnt how to use that too. ( Quite useful for demonstrating and talking about the history of stained glass - as are many other old tools and techniques...) As I said, the potter today uses an electric wheel for convenience, but his hands still forms and shapes the clay . He doesn't use a mechanical moulding machine. Did I actually exclude (for the Stained Glass Artist) the use of of "our" equivalent innovation , e.g. the gas or electric iron?? Check through what I really said, because I myself can't find it...? EliSabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 19:26:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:24:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cooking Class ;-) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:22:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199712090323.DAA16109@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len, What did I say...! ;-D You are a true Craftsmen. If I come over, will you cook for me??? I am salivating already!! Elisabeth 'n Toby Sure you can, work on perfecting the ultimate tool, the one that is located between your ears :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 19:31:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:30:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: need pattern Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:30:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec8.17300.0> References: <<1997Dec8.73159.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jackie! Can't you go take a quick photo of their equipment and make your own? BTW: are you sure you want 18 rather than 14? It all depends on what type of tractor they use to pull the trailers... are they twin axels (18) or single (14)? Might not mean much to you, but it means everything to a trucker. On Mon, 8 Dec 1997 jandj@tvutel.com wrote: > Does anyone know were I can find a stained glass pattern for a semi > truck? A 18 wheeler to be exact. I need one to make a panel for a > trucking company for christmas gift. Any suggestions would be > appreciated. > > Jackie > ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 20:57:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:54:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: HELP-Merchant Service Credit Card Processing Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 23:51:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec8.185137.0> References: <<1997Dec8.164824.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi All, I have just come off of a 4 weekend blitz of shows (in a row) bone tired, can't think straight. Almost out of the small stuff that sells well, and for the big stuff, find that to stay competitive in the Craft/Art/Hobby show circuit, I really have to consider taking credit cards at my booth. What!!!! You all have been doing it for years, I know, but I'm a little slow. Just finished an internet search for "Merchant Services Credit Card Processors" and got a ton of stuff. Some sound legit, some sound like multi-level marketing scams, some sound too good to be true! They all want to lease their expensive equipment at various rates. Can anyone recommend a United States major bank system that doesn't charge an arm and 3 legs, and what 'Merchant Service' companies, that lease the equipment, are good. The wireless portable "swipe" system seems best for this sort of traveling circus (after 4 shows in a row, for 4 weeks it really feels like a circus!!! Question for Mike Savad: Does Geo-Cities offer this sort of 'built in' service with their web sites?? Question for Albert: Will IGGA offer this on our member web sites? And lastly, finally got some great pictures of some of my little (and big) creations, and may yet get some sort of web site up. Albert-will be e-mailing you soon with some more questions on the IGGA web sites. EliSabeth, (& Toby) will write soon, too tired to continue now, hope I really didn't jam up your computer with the pictures I sent. The large 'Blue' Panel sold right away, second show. Lots of Thanks in Advance, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 8 22:18:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:17:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:49:02, -0500 Message-ID: <199712090549.AAA11060@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK write in very small part: If you give me their WEB-page address I will check it out and send them a "total stinker" to add to your complaint about their arrogance. It's a bit much to state that a) they are the ONLY ones etc and then to add insult to injury with the rider ...."of any consequence..." It's a bit rich!! Bob writes, Well here it is: http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/tsg/ Yes, indeed, the title page has the phrase *of any consequence* . I almost fell out of my chair. Not that I disbelieved that it would be there but just the fact of seeing it for myself. Some gall. Shortly thereafter I was assulted with: *But I can show you how to cut glass with confidence in five minutes.* Either these guys know a great deal more than I do or they are given to overstatement. I will leave this subject alone- for now. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 00:36:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:34:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: luton.ac.uk!david.outram From: "David A Outram" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass supplies Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:34:19 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.83419.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: University of Luton Precedence: bulk Many thanks to all for your help! I've plenty to go on now, Thanks David A Outram Network Support Officer University of Luton Email David.Outram@Luton.ac.uk Phone 01582 743242 Fax 01582 489318 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 01:44:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:43:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:31:31 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec8.193131.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk When one gets really good at cutting glass, grinding is superfluous... redundant. Plus, your foil sticks better because you don't have all that glass dust to contend with. IMNSHO. Best regards, Dani Greer I thought I was getting pretty good at cutting glass and was only useing the grinder to smooth the edges to knock off sharp edges so foiling would not be dangerous to the fingers. Am I still doing something wrong then, if I should be foiling without grinding? deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 01:45:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:43:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: HELP-Merchant Service Credit Card Processing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:51:20 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Question for Albert: > Will IGGA offer this on our member web sites? If you have merchant status, we can certain add whatever text and pictures support that, but the Guild doesn't offer merchant status to members or have an agreement with any card issuers to that effect. Maybe it's something the Board should think about, though. I know that groups often engineer "affinity" cards, but that would only mean that members could apply for credit cards with the Guild logo on them (or something like that). Merchant status is quite another thing and each applicant is vetted individually by the card-issuing banks. But when the Guild was looking for a bank to allow it to accept credit cards, I did some research on the web, too, finding pretty much what you have: that some offers seem pretty solid and from pretty solid firms, while others seem awfully flakey. I'd follow your instincts on that, if I were you. Discounts (the cost of accepting the card) seem to vary all over the map, so you have to do your homework, be sensitive to your gut feelings, find the best deal. I suspect you're going to hear from quite a few bungi participants about their arrangements, so I'm sure you'll find something that works, even if you *do have to lease all that expensive hi-tech remote-roaming wireless satellite-feed download/upload instant answer equipment. > And lastly, finally got some great pictures of some of my little (and > big) creations, and may yet get some sort of web site up. Albert-will > be e-mailing you soon with some more questions on the IGGA web sites. I will? News to me! It was pointed out to me a couple of weeks ago that while the Guild offers "web sites" to its members (the quotation marks are to indicate that they're not really sites in the sense that each is a real domain ... they're not: they're really subsets of the Guild's site, which is itself a subset of bungi.com and it's really the Rands who make the space available for all of the Guild's stuff as well as the Guild's member pages. Oh, lost the thread ... it was pointed out that while the Guild offers that, there wasn't any announcement to that effect anywhere in Guild publications or on its web site. I fixed that last week by putting an announcement on the home page. Funny that so few members have taken advantage of it, not that I'm complaining, since I'm the one who has to do the work of preparing the pages and I'm swamped with client work, not to mention the Guild's. Anyway, Lee, if you say I'm going to be emailing anyone (the bungi group?) about those web sites, consider this to be that email. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 01:45:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:43:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:51:20 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > To give credit where credit is due, they ARE good for lamp glass; as > regards tools, they are total rip-off merchants. Two things occur to me: 1. They need some competition to set them straight; 2. If the continue their attitude and practice, they'll put themselves out of business even without competition. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 05:26:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 05:24:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!clipper1 From: clipper1@erols.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:30:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971209092034.3067c88a@pop.erols.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I realized in the cold light of morning that my last post was too harsh. I'm afraid I let a perceived analogy between real handmade and real science push my buttons. Next time I will take several deep breaths, remind myself how wrong it is to take out gripes from one area of my life on the people I interact with in another, and just stay lurking. very sorry. CArol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 06:00:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 05:58:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:58:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971209090210.26371790@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Len... Thanks for your response..... I guess you told me! Because of the nature of my job.... and thanks to my experience I doubt if I would buy to many gadgets for refrigeration without the advise of my very talented refrigeration repair person.... ( and I am so grateful that she keeps abreast of her trade so that she knows the difference between a useful innovative tool and a useless gadget...) that was not my point..... (Carol said it very well in another post.) At 11:13 AM 12/8/97 -0600, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: Barbara >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 8:12 AM >Subject: Re: Cutting glass > >Hi Barbara, > > > >> I don't understand how the conversations drift back and forth >>re:methods one chooses to use to reach desired effect.... what difference >>does it make... >> Whether you consider it an art or a craft... it is hardly a static >>field... but constantly evolving... seems natural to me that the tools of >>the trade would not stay the same either. >> I am in the food business by trade and would not consider giving up >>the refrigeration > >I 'll use your own analogies to help make the opinions of some of the >bungi pros a little clearer > >Heres a hypothetical..........salesperson shows up and demonstrates a so >called innovative product... a new machine that has the capability of >opening a refrigerator door for you.... its complex, costs a lot of money , >prone to fail and does not open the door as fast as you can open it by hand >........would you buy it just because its a new , hi-tech gadget ? > > >thanks to many innovative chefs in the industry... food is better than >ever !! > >Where do these innovations originate? I do a little cooking myself. There >are hundreds of kitchen gadgets available but how often do you see a pro >chef ever use any of them? Very rarely in my experience. They use quality >hand tools, well sharpened knives and their own highly developed sense of >flavors, knowledge of ingredients, balance, texture and timing. Chefs use >whisks instead of black and decker cordless hand held super mixers because >of more *feel* more *oneness with the egg whites* Bakers kneed by hand for >the same reason. Chefs chop, mince and dice by hand because each ingredient >requires a certain touch for it to come out right... something that can't be >acheived with a food processor. Besides when you take into account a food >processor's setup and cleaning time an experienced hand is faster. > >A great cook can take any old fish an old frying pan a little oil and some >salt and pepper, and thats it... and present a taste sensation that you will >never forget. A great glass artist can do the same with what some might >think of as a bunch of junk scrap a glass and along with a cutter, lead and >solder construct a work of art. If the mind set is such that your not >prepared create without a pattern book , just the right glass, a diamond saw >and a morton thingy those are self-imposed limitations. > > Its not a matter of right or wrong. The advise that you see from glass >artists on this list has more to do with offering direction to bunginians >who want to develope artistic skills then to contridicting anyone's choice >of methods. > > >>perfecting the use of the tools available today is part of the pleasure I >>take in practicing my projects... I may never be the artist that many of >you >>are.. > >Sure you can, work on perfecting the ultimate tool, the one that is located >between your ears :-) > > >Len > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Barbara Snell Cornell University ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 06:26:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 06:24:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Glass 101: Nightlights Date: Tue, 09 Dec 97 09:20:47 EST Message-ID: <971209.092323.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1997Dec8.181245.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I make nightlights, but frankly do not like the ones with sides as I feel they get wobbly. There's really little there to keep them together. I will bend up the ends of the brackets but I don't feel that's much support. I really prefer doing flat nightlights, as if I were making small suncatchers and soldering the bracket to the back of those...and I have good luck with those. Dorothy K -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 06:43:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 06:41:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LByrne21 From: LByrne21 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Haven't received any Bungi Mail Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:36:11 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec9.143611.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Please re-instate me on the mailing list...No Bungi mail has come my way in 4 days and that just can't be. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 06:51:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 06:50:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: AUDIT.RJF.com!BHall From: Betty Hall To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain Subject: New address Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:49:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.44921.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I've not gotten mail since Friday when my address was changed......please note new address: BHall@Audit.rjf.com Thanks! Betty Hall, ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 06:53:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 06:52:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: jandj@tvutel.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: need pattern Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 08:53:08 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.2538.0> References: <<1997Dec8.17300.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk maruca@netaxs.com wrote: > > Jackie! > > Can't you go take a quick photo of their equipment and make your own? > > BTW: are you sure you want 18 rather than 14? It all depends on what type > of tractor they use to pull the trailers... are they twin axels (18) or > single (14)? Might not mean much to you, but it means everything to a > trucker. > > On Mon, 8 Dec 1997 jandj@tvutel.com wrote: > > > Does anyone know were I can find a stained glass pattern for a semi > > truck? A 18 wheeler to be exact. I need one to make a panel for a > > trucking company for christmas gift. Any suggestions would be > > appreciated. > > > > Jackie > > ---- > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I do know what it means to them because I am a wife of a trucker. It is an 18 wheeler and should pull a flat bed. I have made my own designs but I am not happy with how I have reduced or simplified the photos and I was just curious as to what other patterns might look like and show me. Jackie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 07:42:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 07:41:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re : country Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:36:02 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec9.15362.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-09 02:42:00 EST, you write: > I was not passing a value judgement on my customer's ethics, but wanted to > show how something quick to make can appeal to the buying public, so I don't > appreciate the question posed above which when emailed comes over as a > sarcastic remark on my own ethics. > > Elizabeth Glad you posted that, I thought the first comment about us acting like we were better than country decorators was a little tacky. I didn't think we were putting down country decorating just stating what they will buy and how we could sell to them.... if we wanted to go in that direction. IMHO I might go so far as making something for sports fans, but I don't like country crafts (ok they are cute but I wouldn't have them) so I wouldnt' make them. But like all of us its the little things we make that help support our bigger projects. and if someone was to make a simple country item that sells more power to them. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 07:50:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 07:49:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Computer woes again Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:45:44 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec9.154544.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Ah Pat.....the joys of the little white box.....just had a new hardrive installed and it works just fine...now the old one which still has all my working stuff on it is having a hissy fit.... It reminds me of the search for the perfect piece of glass.......I know I have it somewhere.......I just can locate it..... Good luck..... mo mosfunland@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 08:06:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:05:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: HELP-Merchant Service Credit Card Processing Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 10:21:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.5217.0> References: <<1997Dec8.185137.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk leestat7 wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have just come off of a 4 weekend blitz of shows (in a row) bone > tired, can't think straight. Almost out of the small stuff that sells > well, and for the big stuff, find that to stay competitive in the > Craft/Art/Hobby show circuit, I really have to consider taking credit > cards at my booth. What!!!! You all have been doing it for years, I > know, but I'm a little slow. > > Just finished an internet search for "Merchant Services Credit Card > Processors" and got a ton of stuff. Some sound legit, some sound like > multi-level marketing scams, some sound too good to be true! They all > want to lease their expensive equipment at various rates. > > Can anyone recommend a United States major bank system that doesn't > charge an arm and 3 legs, and what 'Merchant Service' companies, that > lease the equipment, are good. The wireless portable "swipe" system > seems best for this sort of traveling circus (after 4 shows in a row, > for 4 weeks it really feels like a circus!!! > > Question for Mike Savad: > Does Geo-Cities offer this sort of 'built in' service with their web > sites?? > > Question for Albert: > Will IGGA offer this on our member web sites? > > And lastly, finally got some great pictures of some of my little (and > big) creations, and may yet get some sort of web site up. Albert-will > be e-mailing you soon with some more questions on the IGGA web sites. > > EliSabeth, (& Toby) will write soon, too tired to continue now, hope I > really didn't jam up your computer with the pictures I sent. The large > 'Blue' Panel sold right away, second show. > > Lots of Thanks in Advance, > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i really don't know. geo cities will give you 2 megs free, they don't want commercial sites, but i see plenty of them. if your a featured site, you get 5 megs, like mine. they do have quite a few services, i really hav'nt checked into them, though somewhere on there "confusing to navigate" site, you can find they're faq. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 08:24:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:23:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Lamp shade classes Date: Tue, 09 Dec 97 10:42:04 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec9.18424.0> References: <<1997Dec8.83333.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Denise, Did anyone compile Howard Rubin's advice on shade > making before he left the list? I have a file that is a compilation of the threads on lampmaking instructions, suggestions, etc. A large majority of the messages are responses from Howard, before he left the group. I would be glad to send you the file if you would please send me your private e-mail address. If anyone else is interested in the file, PLEASE E-MAIL YOUR REQUEST TO ME *PRIVATELY* at dawnm@fidnet.com. It is extremely unfortunate since Howard was a wealth of information on the art of lampmaking, but eventually he began to only offer his advice off-bungi in private e-mail directly to the inquirer. Because of his extensive experience making lamps, he didn't feel he should have to defend his methods to others who questioned his way of doing things, or suggested other alternatives. Because of this, we all missed out on some very valuable expertise. But, you can privately e-mail Howard at weaver51@teleport.com. This is a wonderful resource (many thanks to the Rand's!). With 300+ members out there, I would like to encourage the "lurkers" to go ahead and jump in, give us your ideas, suggestions. Don't worry that someone may not agree with your way of doing things or that you may possibly put your foot in your mouth. (We all do it, and we all live through it!) Happy Holidays, Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 08:38:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:37:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!GlasCrafts From: GlasCrafts To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stained glass supplies Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:36:53 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec9.163653.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Hi Betty, We are a stained glass supplier located in Florida and we sell to the public. Please call toll-free or leave your snail mail address and we'll send you our free 64 pg. mail order stained glass supply catalog. You might like to check our web page at http://www.glasscrafters.com Here you can obtain an email of our latest sales flyer, and get an overview of some of our stained glass product lines. Thank you! Glass Crafters Stained Glass, Inc. 398 Interstate Ct. Sarasota, FL 34240 1-800-422-4552 1-941-379-8333 FAX: 1-941-379-8827 GlasCrafts@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 08:53:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:53:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: HELP-Merchant Service Credit Card Processing Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:52:36 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec9.165236.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Lee before you go all out with credit card services try your local banks it might be easier to use them and easy to get info from them. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 09:28:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:26:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Spectrum Glass Date: Tue, 09 Dec 97 12:24:10 EST Message-ID: <971209.122615.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just received the latest copy of The Score. I haven't been to the Spectrum site in a long time (is it www.spectrumglass.com ?). They say they will be putting The Score online for downloading. Also that they are working on putting up ALL the patterns they have ever published. (They are always looking for contributions.) Dorothy -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 09:45:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:44:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Apologies from clipper1@erols.com Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 09:21:41 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.32141.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971209092034.3067c88a@pop.erols.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Summit Stained Glass (see us at: http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Hey, I did detect a hostile tone in your post, but I agreed with the points you made. I don't know what sparked it, but you didn't do anything that the rest of us haven't done from time to time. Take a few deep breaths, throw your "frustration brick" across the room and come back later. Mike Peck clipper1@erols.com wrote: > > I realized in the cold light of morning that my last post was too > harsh. I'm afraid I let a perceived analogy between real handmade and real > science push my buttons. > Next time I will take several deep breaths, remind myself how wrong > it is to take out gripes from one area of my life on the people I interact > with in another, and just stay lurking. > > very sorry. > > CArol > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 10:04:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:03:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!glass_artist From: glass_artist@juno.com (Lori J Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass workshop plans? Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:44:56 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.44456.0> References: <<1997Nov26.71239.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Marilyn... Sorry this response isn't more timely, but the christmas season is here and I've been bogged down in business (great thing to be able to say, huh?)! When we started working on a seperate studio area for me, I ordered a copy of a booklet called, "Your Stained Glass Workshop" by Gene Mayo. It was a great find! It comes with complete plans, illustrations, and instructions for about a dozen projects...everything from making your own frames (which I found helpful) to work tables and glass racks. I made the glass racks & lead storage boxes myself and it couldn't have been easier. Only one problem...I can't remember where I got the book! Here's the info from the inside cover, though...it was copyrighted in 1996 so there shouldn't be a problem in still getting it. I don't know what I paid for it, but it must be under $15! "Your Stained Glass Workshop" by Gene Mayo Stained Glass Images, Inc 135 Dolton Ave San Carlos, CA 94070 (415) 592-4858 fax (415) 592-2890 If all else fails try your local bookstore, or my favorite Amazon.com and they can probably get it for you thru the ISBN:0-936459-34-4 hope this helps, LJ ________________________________________________________________________________________ >Does anyone know where we can find some building plans for a stained >glass >workshop that he could use for a guideline???? ________________________________________________________________________________________ LJ Maas, Owner & Artist can be reached at: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design Handcrafted & unique stained glass gift items ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 10:04:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:04:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!glass_artist From: glass_artist@juno.com (Lori J Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:44:54 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.54454.0> References: <<199712021354.HAA17229@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Paint Shop Pro is the closest thing I have ever come to Photoshop! I've used both a great deal and have found that if you don't want the expense of Adobe Photoshop (usually around $500) then get a copy of PSP. You can download a copy from their website and try it before you decide to purchase (a good investment at about $60-70). A major perk is that you can use Photoshop filters with PSP and there are tons of FREE filters available online. In fact there are a great deal of web pages dedicated to the use of PSP. PSP does come with a standard mosaic filter, but most importantly, you can draw & edit your scan however you want. hope this helps, LJ ________________________________________________________________________________________ >That's very helpful, and I'd like to talk more about the capabilities >of >various software programs for graphics, or specifically for stained >glass. > >I want to go beyond the outline ... I want a program that will also >allow >me to manipulate the size and color of the pixels ... so that I can >take a >photo, scan it and create a "mosaic style" pattern. ________________________________________________________________________________________ LJ Maas, Owner & Artist can be reached at: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design Handcrafted & unique stained glass gift items ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 11:09:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:08:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike From: Mike Simpson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:54:00 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <199712091154.LAA00545@jackel.demon.co.uk> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971208225702.2fa793b4@pop.erols.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk If I could offer my own - purely subjective - opinion on what a real craftsman does and does not do. No real craftman will adopt new tools or techniques if they bring about a loss of control or quality, no matter how trivial, in any aspect of their craft. Conversely, if there is no loss whatsoever, most craftmen will adopt new tools and techniques very readily, usually with a decent pause of some decades to make sure that they are not falling into the trap of fashion. As an example, I know a carpenter who uses only hand tools and the most traditional techniques and materials to make furniture. even selecting the wood from the log and drying it himself. He then uses power tools to "rough it out" before planing, jointing and finishing everything by hand. An equivalent in the glass world might be to use a bandsaw to get the exact pieces of glass out of the sheet with minimum wastage while leaving the real cutting to be done properly. Having said that, I still havn't convinced myself to get a bandsaw. Mike Simpson. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 11:09:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:08:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike From: Mike Simpson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:00:20 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <199712091100.LAA00459@jackel.demon.co.uk> References: <<199712090323.DAA16106@pluto.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Elisabeth (& Toby) and other U.K. Bungians, Despite being generally happy with Tempsford (they get about 60% of my business) I too have a "Tempsford arrogance" story. The following has happened to me at Tempsford not once but twice. I had gathered all of the glass, solder and other items that I was buying and managed to attract the attention of one of the staff who took a note of the items and went off to prepare the bill. Before completing this however he took a Lo.....ng lunch break leaving me to stand cooling my heels. I guess that with the parrot, the puppies, the rural setting, the sports cars and all of that glass they must find it hard to be humble. One addition to the list of suppliers in the U.K. is Decorative Glass Supplies in Bingley, West Yorkshire, they have a decent range of Kokomo glass. Mike Simpson. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 12:03:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:59:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!glass_artist From: glass_artist@juno.com (Lori J Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass workshop plans? Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:47:34 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.74734.0> References: <<1997Nov26.71239.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Marilyn... Sorry this response isn't more timely, but the christmas season is here and I've been bogged down in business (great thing to be able to say, huh?)! When we started working on a seperate studio area for me, I ordered a copy of a booklet called, "Your Stained Glass Workshop" by Gene Mayo. It was a great find! It comes with complete plans, illustrations, and instructions for about a dozen projects...everything from making your own frames (which I found helpful) to work tables and glass racks. I made the glass racks & lead storage boxes myself and it couldn't have been easier. Only one problem...I can't remember where I got the book! Here's the info from the inside cover, though...it was copyrighted in 1996 so there shouldn't be a problem in still getting it. I don't know what I paid for it, but it must be under $15! "Your Stained Glass Workshop" by Gene Mayo Stained Glass Images, Inc 135 Dolton Ave San Carlos, CA 94070 (415) 592-4858 fax (415) 592-2890 If all else fails try your local bookstore, or my favorite Amazon.com and they can probably get it for you thru the ISBN:0-936459-34-4 hope this helps, LJ ________________________________________________________________________________________ >Does anyone know where we can find some building plans for a stained >glass >workshop that he could use for a guideline???? _____________________________________________________________________________________ >LJ Maas, Owner & Artist can be reached at: artist@busprod.com > >ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design > >Handcrafted & unique stained glass gift items ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 12:03:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:59:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!glass_artist From: glass_artist@juno.com (Lori J Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ..design thoughts Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:48:54 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.74854.0> References: <<199712021354.HAA17229@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Paint Shop Pro is the closest thing I have ever come to Photoshop! I've used both a great deal and have found that if you don't want the expense of Adobe Photoshop (usually around $500) then get a copy of PSP. You can download a copy from their website and try it before you decide to purchase (a good investment at about $60-70). A major perk is that you can use Photoshop filters with PSP and there are tons of FREE filters available online. In fact there are a great deal of web pages dedicated to the use of PSP. PSP does come with a standard mosaic filter, but most importantly, you can draw & edit your scan however you want. hope this helps, LJ ________________________________________________________________________________________ >>That's very helpful, and I'd like to talk more about the capabilities > >>of >>various software programs for graphics, or specifically for stained >>glass. >> >>I want to go beyond the outline ... I want a program that will also >>allow >>me to manipulate the size and color of the pixels ... so that I can >>take a >>photo, scan it and create a "mosaic style" pattern. > >________________________________________________________________________________________ LJ Maas, Owner & Artist can be reached at: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design Handcrafted & unique stained glass gift items ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 12:35:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:34:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:19:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.10197.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Friends in the UK- Just ran up to Denver yesterday for glass supplies and purchased a Weller 100 for 35 US Dollars at Artisans Wholesale Stained Glass. I wonder if our American wholesalers would ship to the UK. It doesn't sound as though it would cost any more or that the shipment would arrive in any worse condition! I do have a question for you about Hetley's - haven't checked their web site yet and doubt if I would find the answer to my question there anyway. Do they still sell lead mills? Please let me know if they do and the cost - Michael will think he died and went to heaven if he could actually own one!! All the best for the holidays to you. Thanks for sharing a few more words with us - we miss you when you're silent! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios P.S. Elisabeth - be sure and plan a = stop in Colorado should you visit the US next autumn! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 14:02:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:00:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Lamp shade classes Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:39:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.113915.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by Denise Davis: >Worden or Odyssey for beginning Tiffany style shades? = What size shade do you recommend? How many pieces? How many classes? How many hours per class? How long between classes? Any other advice from anyone who has taught this sort of class is welcome. I have learned a lot from this group and feel I have grown as an artist because of it. Thank you all. > Are you sure you want to start with a Tiffany style lamp? How about starting with a flat panel lamp? I find panel lamps to be easier to do. Anyway....If you are doing a "Tiffany" shade, I like to use the full 360 degree forms rather than the panel forms. I that when I use the partial forms my dimensions have a habit of getting off just enough to make it annoying when trying to fit all the panels together. So I like to use the full 360 degree form. I've only used the Worden forms. I think the 18" size works equally well for hanging lamps or for lampshades installed on lamp bases. It's a great general purpose size, and there are lots of patterns available for 18" shades. I would recommend a geometric style for the 1st time as they require cutting of fewer curved pieces. Also, look for patterns featuring a verticle orientation. Trying to fit a largely horizontal piece onto a curved surface is difficult. Good luck. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 15:03:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:02:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ssimicro.com!xkellych From: KC To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: coolant for grinder Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 16:03:10 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971209160310.3e9f2942@smtp.ssimicro.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I am new in stained glass. I was told that adding coolant in the water reservoir of the ginder can prolong the life of the grinding bit. Is there a special kind of coolant for the grinder, or can we just use any kind? Thanks in advance. Kelly ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 16:33:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:32:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Glasangels From: Glasangels To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: New Web Page Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:24:01 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec10.0241.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-09 01:17:34 EST, you write: << I finally have my web page up and running. If you would like to take a = look the address is http://members.stratos.net/ted Your comments are welcome. >> Your lamps are beautiful!!!! Thanks for sharing them with us! Marilyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 16:40:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:40:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 19:36:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.143659.0> References: <<3.0.1.16.19971209160310.3e9f2942@smtp.ssimicro.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk KC wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I am new in stained glass. I was told that adding coolant in the water > reservoir of the ginder can prolong the life of the grinding bit. Is there > a special kind of coolant for the grinder, or can we just use any kind? > > Thanks in advance. > > Kelly > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass there is a grinder coolant. it's really not needed, it helps the break the water tension. the glass goo, does'nt cake up on the bit, and it makes it easier to scrape up the gunk (it stays together better). for the most part, use just the water, coolant really is'nt necessery. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 18:44:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:43:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: new page Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:49:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.15494.0> References: <>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Wow! Thanks for posting the address Mike. Jerri On Mon, 08 Dec 1997 12:09:30 -0500 "M. Savad" writes: >i found this page a while ago: > >http://www.tiffany-glas.ch/forbes.html > >---Mike Savad > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 18:44:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:44:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:46:42 +0000 Message-ID: <199712092111.PAA08121@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: "Toby" > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Cutting glass > Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:22:05 +0000 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > > Well Don, > You CAN if you like...... I lend you my father's that he left me..... > (For the fun of it, I have learnt how to use that too. ( Quite useful > for demonstrating and talking about the history of stained glass - > as are many other old tools and techniques...) As I said, the potter > today uses an electric wheel for convenience, but his hands still > forms and shapes the clay . He doesn't use a mechanical moulding > machine. Did I actually exclude (for the Stained Glass Artist) the > use of of "our" equivalent innovation , e.g. the gas or electric > iron?? Check through what I really said, because I myself can't find > it...? > > EliSabeth 'n Toby in UK > ---- > EliSabeth, You didn't exclude the electric iron. And thanks for the offer to lend me your father's iron, but I have one. Curious thing is that I use it for difficult decorative soldering because even with the rheostat, I can't seem to get the same effects with the electric one. Maybe the heat is too constant. What sparked my original comment was the picture of the potter using her hands to mold the clay on an electric wheel instead of a molding machine. I still use my hands to mold the shape of the glass when I guide it through the blade of the saw or the wheel of the grinder, I don't punch up some code and pop in a square of glass to have a perfect piece pop out. I rarely use the saw, it is slow, it is messy, and the cut just is not the same, but when it is a cut is more than I can handle (after I've attempted at least twice) I do use it. And then I have to clean it. It is just another tool. And a tool that takes some different skills to operate. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 19:01:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:01:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sgi.net!mindwarp From: mindwarp To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Computer woes again Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 21:59:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.165923.0> References: <<3.0.5.32.19971208152606.00794310@mail.tznet.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This sounds like the same problems I was having with Quantex....but mine started with the cd rom then to the memory and mother board.. finally when they were out of ideas I sent it back to them so they could use them hi-tech problem finding machines.....they couldn't find the problem....and in the process cracked the casing....in the end they sent me a new computer....It took 3 months. Luckily it was still under warranty. Sandi Pat Diacca Topp wrote: >=20 > HI! I guess I sent the entire file last time, well, heregoes another t= ry. >=20 > COMPUTER WOES >=20 > Guess this thing is working now, at least for a little while? Basicall= y, a > year and a half ago, I had originally asked a computer guru what kind = and > what systems did I need in computers to do the work that I explained th= at I > wanted to do. Well, he recommended DELL. DELL also this year got the > highest rating for quality and performance. WELL, I GOT A LARGE LEMON. > The biggest problem, was that since I was a newbie, I never knew when i= t > wasn=92t working right, whether it was me or "IT" causing the snags. W= ell, > "IT" did have some major problems right away, and DELL was true to thei= r > word and sent a new Mother Board and a technician to install it. And i= t > did work a bit better. But somehow I seemed to be struggling more than= I > should for the next year. Met a computer technician here locally a few > months ago, originally trained by the Navy and worked on the Scud Missi= les. > Was having major problems working in the graphics that I needed to do= , so > he made some suggestions on what additional memory (spelled money) etc.= he > felt would take care of the problem. OK, so I did that. Problems > increased! Finally he came over and took the whole works home with him= to > figure out what was going on. That=92s when he discovered that the mac= hine > has been running on bad RAM memory. DELL replaced that, and still the > problems continued. Currently think we have it solved, as the Hard Dri= ve > unit is kaput also! So am waiting for that also to be replaced. I hav= e > two. By the way when the DELL technician installed the Mother Board ov= er a > year ago, he failed to set some switches correctly, and compounded all = of > the other problems. Glad the new technician is on the ball, at least w= hen > all the new parts are in, it really should work. What I will have is a= new > computer under the old case. We are knocking on wood that the power su= pply > unit is OK as that is all of the original equipment left. >=20 > Soooooo.......After the Xmas rush maybe I can get back to the graphics = I > want to put up on my unfinished Web Page. Been working two months on a= n > electric typewriter and copy machine to get my letters out to customers. > But they have responded well, I had a banner week, hope it keeps up as = I > still have "memory" bills to pay. :-) >=20 > Will be swamped from now until Xmas, so all you out there 'HAVE A GOOD > ONE'..........Pat >=20 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 19:06:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:05:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:03:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199712100305.DAA04557@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Mike, Neither have I... Well spoken and I like your statement of being in control (which is one reason why I drive a car with manual gears, rather than an automatic) Having said that, I still havn't convinced myself to get a bandsaw. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 19:07:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:05:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Apologies from clipper1@erols.com Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:03:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199712100305.DAA04550@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hey Carol, We all lose our rags occasionally! Don't worry about it! Graciousness always wins at the end of the day. You have just won!! My Best Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK clipper1@erols.com wrote: > > I realized in the cold light of morning that my last post was too > harsh. I'm afraid I let a perceived analogy between real handmade and real > science push my buttons. > Next time I will take several deep breaths, remind myself how wrong > it is to take out gripes from one area of my life on the people I interact > with in another, and just stay lurking. > > very sorry. > > CArol ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 19:07:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:05:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: UK Glass supplies Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:03:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199712100305.DAA04547@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Bunginians, Did anyone mention Hetlys WEB-address??? I missed it!! (It was 4 in the morning when I got to bed...) Please repeat. Many thanks Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 19:07:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:05:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:03:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199712100305.DAA04564@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Dani & Bunginians. If the 100W iron you bought in Denver is temperature controlled, then that IS a good price (roughly equivalent to UK Sterling 20 - but then we over here have to pay VAT on top of 17.5 percent). Whether or not it might be worth a retailer over here to investigate the feasibility of importing these to UK? They may get a quantity discount, but nevertheless have to pay freight and earn an honest buck themselves.... I wonder if EliZabeth in Bournemouth would be interested??? I think she must begin to see that there are a lot of us out here, who a) are NOT retailers, b) are teachers and c) work on our own account also and that we really need much more competition to put people like TSG in their place. EliZabeth in Bournemouth: The iron at UKSterling 11.90 inclusive of VAT is made by Draper Tools. It is not temperature controlled. The tip it came supplied with was straight, but a bit on the narrow side. But there are other alternative tips. It sits quite nicely in the hand and is not too heavy. Me and my students are evaluating it at the moment. For a beginner's iron, I think it is ideal, primarily from the cost factor. The student may not pursue stained glass in the long run and perhaps only ever make a couple of panels and some few light catchers. It would be pure madness to spend UKSterling 35 - 80 for a tool you may never use again. I seem to have a thing about soldering irons..... As a "professional" tool, then I am not quite sure that I would pick the Draper iron. But I am trying it out for the time being. For less than 12 pounds, I don't feel that you can go terribly wrong.... I have about 6-7 irons myself of which a couple are Weller 70 and 100W. My prize possession is a little Oryx one which is a 150W that "steps down" to 100 W and is a temperature controlled one. It was a birthday gift from my (estranged) husband (who is an electronics engineer by training) a few years ago and cost an arm and a leg. I treat it with reverence. I can use it all day without getting tired or aching hands and is an absolute delight. Needless to say I NEVER take it out to Class. Otherwise, I find that using two irons on the go, works for me. My first iron was a 75W Weller non-temp.control that I bought through Goddards & Gibbs now almost 20 years ago. I still use it frequently. It has mellowed so nicely and melts the solder just the way I want it. Just ran up to Denver yesterday for glass supplies and purchased a Weller 100 for 35 US Dollars at Artisans Wholesale Stained Glass. I wonder if our American wholesalers would ship to the UK. It doesn't sound as though it would cost any more or that the shipment would arrive in any worse condition! I have just ordered my 1997/8 catalogue from Hetley (UK Bunginians: It costs UKSterling 2, so I sent them a postal order) I DO actually seem to remember a mention of Lead Mills, in their 1996 catalogue, Dani. If I am right, then I will get you one and ship it back to you next spring with one of the US Bungininans coming over for the Holland trip ( .... it could even be YOURSELF!! ;-) ) Howzat! Thank you for your kind comments! Charles sent me a cheeky e-mail and asked if I was aware that it was 4.20 am UK time when I posted my last long missile!! I didn't actually, but no wonder I felt like something the cat had brought in the following day..... I do have a question for you about Hetley's - haven't checked their web site yet and doubt if I would find the answer to my question there anyway. Do they still sell lead mills? Please let me know if they do and the cost - Michael will think he died and went to heaven if he could actually own one!! All the best for the holidays to you. Holidays! What holidays?? Thanks for sharing a few more words with us - we miss you when you're silent! Mmmmm, well, a girl's gotta work too sometime. Can't let Toby go hungry....- My Very Best! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 19:07:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:05:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: UK Glass supplies AND Holland 1998 Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:03:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199712100305.DAA04560@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Phil, Mike, EliZabeth and other UK Bunginians, With Phil's permission I will forward to all of you (Off-Group) his private e-mail to me and my reply to it (to follow) as regards TSG. Mike also made some interesting observations and EliZabeth plans to give me her evaluation/ observations. One observation Phil made (which I made myself some months ago) was the attempts of TSG to "semi-franchise" in UK.The lady in Winchester trades under the name of "Glasscrafts", I have her address & phone number - but not her name. I have a 2-page printed list of glass & tool suppliers (retailers) in the UK. I compiled the list mainly for my students. The list is focussed mainly as regards accessibility in Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire and sort-of-North-London. If I can send them to you by fax, I will gladly do so. In return, perhaps you could share with me your OWN local sources (which I will be quite happy to put together and circulate once more to all UK Bunginians.. Together therefore, we might be able to build up a better picture of who is where in the UK and who offers what (and does it well!) On that basis, we might be able to network far better than we have been able to do in the past.... Another thing, 2nd year in a row, I am organizing a stained glass trip to "somewhere" in Europe. This year it's in Holland and will include Amsterdam and the pure arts (Van Gogh Museum and the Rijksmuseum. It will also include Antwerp and I am about to contact a Dutch "Bunginian" for more detailed stained glass information and following up on an invitation he extended about 8-10 months ago. I am not doing this on my own. The "Under-Writer" to these projects is a very adventurous, courageous and "fire-ball" little American lady, who is the Adult Education Manager at a Local Authority College where I teach stained glass, Judith Robinson. For the American Bunginians who have met her, they agree with me , I am quite sure. For the Holland trip next April, I have already 4 American Bunginians who have registered their strong interest. As always, finances come into it and so it is a question of our American friends & guests to get themselves over here cheaply (Lee!! You had some wonderful ideas last year!! Since I hope to see you this time round, get working on it and let us know!!) So far we are projecting departing from Hertfordshire/Bedfordshire around 28th April 1998 by private coach for a 6-7 day trip ( I think KEN will take us again!!!) So far, we have quotes for 4-star accommodation in Holland which totals the cost for the trip per person to approx. UK Sterling 220 per person. Since the 2-star accommodation we had in France was really very acceptable, I myself have gone back and asked for an additional quote in Holland for 2-star accommodation. The private coach company wanted firm bookings and deposits by 10 December; both Judith and I told them to "take a running jump". With Christmas and all, it is unrealistic to expect firm commitments until end of January. The 4 main components of the trip will be the stained glass of Antwerp & surroundings, the Flemish glass painters, the Tulip fields in bloom and Amsterdam Arts Museums. Exact programme details I still have to work out - but these are fine-tuning details. Inputs , wishes and ideas are very much welcome. Accommodation in UK for long-distance travellers will be arranged primarily by myself, by Judith, my students and in the next stage by a village B&B family (who is also a customer of mine) depending on how many people are coming and what their requirements are. In the first instance we hope to be able to accept long-distance travellers as our guests at home, where you will accept your rota of the washing-up etc. In MY household, the Swedish traditions (AND cooking) prevails!! However, Judith's American "brownies" cookies are ones to die for!!! For my students, I have printed out a primary programme. . If you UK Bunginians are interested, I can snail-mail you copies. Let me know your addresses. But I will rely on you to "chivvy things along" a little. We WILL need to know how big a coach to get and we will need to book the hotels. If we want KEN to drive us, we will need to make sure that he is free.... As rega(Imagine! His next challenge from NOT knocking down walls in small villages in France, will be how NOT to tip us into the canals of Amsterdam!!! Teehee! He will LOVE us!!). I am working on finances from THIS side. For USA Bunginians we will need to find cheap flight deals to get you over here. Anyone with ideas and details, let us all know - please. It really could make a difference! Once over here, you will have made UK stained glass friends and colleagues for life!! - I have! As regards deposits and payments, this aspect is dealt with by the College who can accept charge & credit card payments. You can also reach Judith Robinson direct on e-mail .... address to follow. In the meantime those of you in USA who have ALREADY registered interest, please e-mail me your snail-mail addresses & phone number, so that I can keep in constant touch with you and also snail-mail you all end every detail as and when they happen... EliZabeth in Bournemout again: great that you are interested for yourself AND your students..... What can I do to help!!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 19:47:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:47:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tznet.com!diacca From: Pat Diacca Topp To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: great scanner! Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 21:46:32 -0600 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971209214632.00798c60@mail.tznet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In reference to my "computer woes" Most everyone answered I shoulda got a MAC! Great idea, but the guru I originally asked didn't steer me toward a mac. This is what I now know I should have instead of struggling with Corel 50, Photo Paint, which is unnecessarily complicated. I also don't have any more money to spend. The technician has this one up and running, I now have 128 MG of Ram and 3.66 GB of memory so can finally work everything plus a zip to store graphics. But am catching on to Corel and getting what I want out of it. I did do one thing that actually worked. Bought a Scan Ace III made by Pacific Image. I have just played with it, and scanned in direct some small fused glass ornaments, just laid them on the bed and scanned in, and printed them up on the Epson 600 printer at 1440 DPI. No camera needed. I am so impressed with this scanner. Have paid out hundreds of dollar to professional photographers who couldn't get the subtlety of the carefree luster patterns as good as the scanner direct! So it really works fantastic with the small flat pieces, so now can put together a great looking brochure to send out, and can change photos as often as I need. All my pieces are one of a kind, and I change very rapidly so it has been difficult to market to galleries since I can no longer do much traveling due to health. I am so sold on this scanner and the resolution, I should become a dealer for them. HA! Pat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 20:31:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:29:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:29:45 -0800 Message-ID: <199712100429.UAA15565@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello good people! I've recently joined this list, and its time to introduce myself... I've always loved stained glass, but have never done any work with it before. A few years ago, I became good friends with a fellow who has been working with glass and restoring old windows for 30+ years. He's a true master craftsman, and it's a delight to see all the beautiful glasswork in his house, and see all the photos and rubbings of old windows he's worked on. Anyway, just recently a lady friend of mine inherited a *beautiful* old window that used to be in her grandmothers old house in Sacramento, Ca. The house was a *very* ornate 4-story victorian, built by a very wealthy man for His new bride in 1862. We believe the window was "origional equipment" in the house, so it's very old. It's a fairly large piece, with a glass area of about 4' x 5'2" It has inadequate iron support across it and has been very badly stored for 30+ years and needs serious help. It has several broken and missing panels and many of the panels were popped out of the lead. A couple weeks ago, I carefully crated it up and trucked it 110 miles to Kennys shop north of Santa Rosa Ca, and We started repairing it. This is a new experiance for me, but under Kenny's supervision I've done quite a lot of the repair work myself. (of course, a good deal of the work so far has just been cleaning old grout out of lead lines and soldering many broken joints.) It's a real joy to be part of the restoration of this fine old artwork... Miraculously, we've been able to come up with perfect matches for several broken pieces, but we've got a problem with 2 large critical pieces that have been tough to match... If any one knows of any sources for *old* glass or anyone out there has some glass in their garage that was removed from old windows I would appreciate any possible leads. Photos of this fabulous old piece can be seen at: http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/geisha.htm The 3 photo's are unlabeled, but top to bottom are: Window on Kenny's table, before beginning. Window stood up, viewed from the front or inside. Window stood up, viewed from the rear or outside. That's Kenny in the pictures... Much of the glass is double layered. The ladys kimono is a layer of acid etched red glass and a layer of pearly white glass with flowers hand painted between the layers. The face and hands are also double layer with hand painting between them. The blue water is double layered with 2 different patterns and textures of glass, which makes it move and shimmer a bit when You move past it. The piece looks very different when viewed from front or rear. Very beautiful both ways, but quite different. The piece we are most desperate to find is the blue/white in the sky, which has a pale pink tint in the white portion. It has a bit of texture to it, like drapery glass, but just a little bit. It's very old and may be german. We need 2 pieces about 5" x 14" to do the job... If anyone has any leads on likely places to find old glass, please mail me! I'm going to get some good close-up photos of the glass types we need and post them as soon as possible, and maybe (short prayer here...) someone out there can help us. Hope You enjoy the pics! Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 22:19:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:18:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: UK Glass supplies Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 01:15:01, -0500 Message-ID: <199712100615.BAA19758@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elisabeth wrote: Dear Bunginians, Did anyone mention Hetlys WEB-address??? I missed it!! (It was 4 in the morning when I got to bed...) Please repeat. Many thanks Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Bob writes, Here is the home page for James Hetley & Co. http://www.hetleys.co.uk/baseframe. html I liked the site & frankly thought it was of more *consequence* than the other one we have been talking about- better layout & more useful information. Did not see a lead mill. A lead mill would be just the thing for my studio & I would be willing to pay $$$ for one with a reasonable set of dies. If anyone has an antique one that would be most desirable. I understand that the exercise is good for you. Could I become smarter than a lead vice? Perhaps, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 23:11:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:11:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, sdelanty@sonic.net Subject: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 02:08:38, -0500 Message-ID: <199712100708.CAA09108@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Steve Delanty writes: If anyone has any leads on likely places to find old glass, please mail me! Bob writes, Contact John Bera in San Marcos, CA, at 619 744-9282 or perhaps 760 744-9282. John has over fifty years experience with traditional glass. I think he must have saved a case of glass each year. You will find him to be most helpful. He also knows how to find glass that he does not have. BTW, John does not own a computer or a diamond bandsaw but he did buy a grinder for one of his helpers to use and yes he uses a $1.95 Fletcher cutter. Still, I like him a lot and respect his advice. Just a kid, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 9 23:58:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:57:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: blackall.demon.co.uk!jill From: jill blackall To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:08:05 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec9.2385.0> References: <<199712091100.LAA00459@jackel.demon.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <199712091100.LAA00459@jackel.demon.co.uk>, Mike Simpson writes >Dear Elisabeth (& Toby) and other U.K. Bungians, > >Despite being generally happy with Tempsford (they get about 60% of my >business) I too have a "Tempsford arrogance" story. > >The following has happened to me at Tempsford not once but twice. >I had gathered all of the glass, solder and other items that I was >buying and managed to attract the attention of one of the staff who took >a note of the items and went off to prepare the bill. Before completing >this however he took a Lo.....ng lunch break leaving me to stand cooling >my heels. > >I guess that with the parrot, the puppies, the rural setting, the sports >cars and all of that glass they must find it hard to be humble. > >One addition to the list of suppliers in the U.K. is Decorative Glass >Supplies in Bingley, West Yorkshire, they have a decent range of Kokomo >glass. > >Mike Simpson. > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I think you'll find they are now in Bradford. I discovered them about a month ago and they said they had moved from Bingley. I have found them to be helpful to a novice but I am told that their prices are quite high. I'm too new to the craft to know. -- jill blackall ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 00:55:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:53:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: great scanner! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:01:31 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > In reference to my "computer woes" Most everyone answered I shoulda got a MAC! > > Great idea, but the guru I originally asked didn't steer me toward a mac. > This is what I now know I should have instead of struggling with Corel 50, > Photo Paint, which is unnecessarily complicated. Be glad you don't have a Mac, Pat. I use CorelDraw *all* the time and it's a very powerful tool. With as much memory as you've got, you're in great shape for speedy work ... that 3.6gig drive won't last long, though, if you're doing lots of scanning. The scans eat up drive space, although you can archive them on the Zip disks quite easily. Have fun! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 01:28:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 01:26:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:23:06 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.9236.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 15:19 09/12/97 -0500, Dani wrote: >Dear Friends in the UK- >> >I do have a question for you about >Hetley's - haven't checked their >web site yet and doubt if I would >find the answer to my question there >anyway. Do they still sell lead mills? >Please let me know if they do and the >cost - Michael will think he died and >went to heaven if he could actually >own one!! > No, they don't sell lead mills, but leave the thought with me and Sam may be able to track down a source amongst his oldtimer contacts. Elizabeth & Sam Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 04:19:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:17:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!Tperri From: Tperri@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: reinforcing wires for suncatchers Date: 10 Dec 1997 07:22:28 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all: I am new to stained glass and have just attempted my first suncatcher. I was previously making panels. My question is what should I be using to reinforce the suncatcher? Does one use a jump hook or wire of some sort? The Wardell book I am using indicates wire of some sort but does not specific which one. The wire I used was much too thick for this job. The book states that this wire needs to be placed between the joints of certain pieces, so it needs to be thin. Can I purchase this type of wire at a hardware store or do I have to go to the Stained Glass shop? Teri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 05:01:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 04:59:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Glasangels From: Glasangels To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass workshop plans? Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:55:19 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec10.125519.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Lori, Thanks so much...I'll look for the book!!!. I thought I'd seen a book out there somewhere, but couldn't remember the author or title. Marilyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 05:08:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:07:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Rowan LeCompte Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:17:59 -0600 Message-ID: <199712101305.HAA25969@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk For all you old farts out there and you know who you are there is a nice little feature on LeCompte in the Dec AARP Bulletin if you get it. Who is he? Well he's the guy who designed and fabricated the Creation rose window at the National Cathedral in Washington D.C. thats all. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 05:13:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:11:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hawk.rmplc.co.uk!mdcglas From: Phil To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: great scanner! Date: Wed, 10 Dec 97 13:13:15 +0000 Message-ID: <199712101311.NAA15050@mx0.rmplc.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> In reference to my "computer woes" Most everyone answered I shoulda got a >MAC! >> >> Great idea, but the guru I originally asked didn't steer me toward a mac. >> This is what I now know I should have instead of struggling with Corel 50, >> Photo Paint, which is unnecessarily complicated. > >Be glad you don't have a Mac, Pat. I use CorelDraw *all* the time and >it's a very powerful tool. With as much memory as you've got, you're >in great shape for speedy work ... that 3.6gig drive won't last long, >though, if you're doing lots of scanning. The scans eat up drive >space, although you can archive them on the Zip disks quite easily. >Have fun! > >Albert Albert come on! you can get coreldraw for the Mac as well! and a lot less headaches setting up your computer! I speak with my computer support hat on instead of my Glass hat :-) Along with 3 colleagues I am responsible for educational computer support for 300+ schools in Glasgow we get a lot less bother from our Mac users Phil Phil Speedwell Computer Technician Microcomputer Development Centre Education Support Service Glasgow City Council ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 05:28:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:27:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: lead mill ...was UK glass Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:35:55 -0600 Message-ID: <199712101323.HAA26941@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---> >I >Did not see a lead mill. A lead mill would be just the thing for my >studio & I would be willing to pay $$$ for one with a reasonable set >of dies. If anyone has an antique one that would be most desirable. I >understand that the exercise is good for you. I have been looking for a lead mill for years...... as a matter of fact I think the first post I ever made to bungi was an inquiry for just such an animal. I have contacted people that I've known from old line studios, contacted the SGAA, put feelers out all over the place .........no luck. I've pretty much given up on finding one. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 05:50:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 05:48:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:58:01 -0600 Message-ID: <199712101346.HAA27921@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > Anyway, just recently a lady friend of mine inherited a *beautiful* old > window that used to be in her grandmothers old house in Sacramento, Ca. > The house was a *very* ornate 4-story victorian, built by a very wealthy > man for His new bride in 1862. We believe the window was "origional equipment" > in the house, so it's very old. Welcome to bungi. Great window.! I've seen similiar designs before. I can't claim to be an expert, but if you asked me if that window was built in 1862 I'd have to say no. Looks more like 1880's-90's. What do you think Albert? Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 06:45:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 06:44:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fast.net!charles From: charles To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:43:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.44315.0> References: <<3.0.1.16.19971209160310.3e9f2942@smtp.ssimicro.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk KC wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I am new in stained glass. I was told that adding coolant in the > water reservoir of the ginder can prolong the life of the grinding > bit. Is there a special kind of coolant for the grinder, or can we > just use any kind? Coolant lowers the surface tension of the water. I think anti-freeze works as well at a much reduced cost. Basically coolant is a water soluble oil. One thing the retail customer overlooks in purchasing coolant is factoring in the extended life of the bit AND the cost of the coolant. In our experience the cost of the coolant exceeds the value of the extended life of the grinder bit. W-C has 10 grinders set up for customer use and evaluation, coolant is not used even with those machines. W-C sells the 3/4" Inland grinder bit for only $14.35 item #4170-01 8 oz bottle of router coolant $2.49. item #4110-14 At Warner-Crivellaro's prices it doesn't make any sense to purchase coolant. I understand in some else's catalog these items are $17.95 and $4.35. You do the math, even at the much higher prices coolant cost isn't justified. BTW grinder bit prices will be dropping soon. Inland is under pressure due to the introduction of competitive grinder bits and dropped the minimum distributor order of 3/4" standard grinder bits from 96 to whatever quantity the distributor will take. Next the grinder companies will be dropping prices on bits. Warner-Crivellaro sells its own name brand bits; the "2-Timer", they last twice as long as Inland bits for only $4.50 more in cost. item #4182-02s $18.85 Here is one of those questions like the bandsaw use of professionals. Do professionals on this list use coolant? Charles Warner Warner-Crivellaro http://www.warner-criv.com/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 07:08:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:07:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: reinforcing wires for suncatchers Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:04:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.548.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tperri@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi all: > > I am new to stained glass and have just attempted my first suncatcher. I > was previously making panels. > > My question is what should I be using to reinforce the suncatcher? Does > one use a jump hook or wire of some sort? The Wardell book I am using > indicates wire of some sort but does not specific which one. The wire I > used was much too thick for this job. The book states that this wire > needs to be placed between the joints of certain pieces, so it needs to > be thin. Can I purchase this type of wire at a hardware store or do I > have to go to the Stained Glass shop? > > Teri > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the wire should be bought at a stained glass store, so you know it's solderable. otherwise it may be galvanized and solder will never stick to it. i think i use 18 ga, or 20 ga. you want to put it on a seam on the back. you don't want to attach it just to the foil, because it will rip. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 07:21:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:21:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:11:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.5119.0> References: <<1997Dec10.44315.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk charles wrote: > > KC wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I am new in stained glass. I was told that adding coolant in the > > water reservoir of the ginder can prolong the life of the grinding > > bit. Is there a special kind of coolant for the grinder, or can we > > just use any kind? > > Coolant lowers the surface tension of the water. I think anti-freeze > works as well at a much reduced cost. Basically coolant is a water > soluble oil. > > One thing the retail customer overlooks in purchasing coolant is > factoring in the extended life of the bit AND the cost of the coolant. > In our experience the cost of the coolant exceeds the value of the > extended life of the grinder bit. W-C has 10 grinders set up for > customer > use and evaluation, coolant is not used even with those machines. > > W-C sells the 3/4" Inland grinder bit for only $14.35 item #4170-01 > 8 oz bottle of router coolant $2.49. item #4110-14 > At Warner-Crivellaro's prices it doesn't make any sense to purchase > coolant. I understand in some else's catalog these items are > $17.95 and $4.35. You do the math, even at the much higher prices > coolant cost isn't justified. > > BTW grinder bit prices will be dropping soon. Inland is under pressure > due to the introduction of competitive grinder bits and dropped the > minimum distributor order of 3/4" standard grinder bits from 96 to > whatever quantity the distributor will take. Next the grinder companies > will be dropping prices on bits. > > Warner-Crivellaro sells its own name brand bits; the "2-Timer", they > last twice as long as Inland bits for only $4.50 more in cost. > item #4182-02s $18.85 > > Here is one of those questions like the bandsaw use of professionals. > Do professionals on this list use coolant? > > Charles Warner > Warner-Crivellaro > http://www.warner-criv.com/ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i use coolant, bandsaw, extra grinders, etc. any toy to extend the life of my tool, or enhance my abilty to do stained glass, i'll use. i've bought some wierd things over the years. like that 6" lapidery saw. i thought i would be able to cut glass with it, but the blade shakes so much the glass shatters, oh well... btw for Charles Warner or whoever.... this hanukah, i want to get glass samples (finally). what are the best prices? and where are the best places to get them? i want to get the following sets: spectrum wissmach kokomo armstrong and maybe some of the artglass's, but mainly the basic glass. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 07:24:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:24:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:11:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.51119.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk What a wonderful window! Nice photos too. However, I can't help with the replacement glass, as the photos don't show enough detail of that particular glass. But it sure was a pleasure to see. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 07:36:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:36:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: reinforcing wires for suncatchers Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:11:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.51126.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by Teri: >My question is what should I be using to reinforce the suncatcher? Does one use a jump hook or wire of some sort? The Wardell book I am using indicates wire of some sort but does not specific which one. The wire I used was much too thick for this job. The book states that this wire needs to be placed between the joints of certain pieces, so it needs to be thin. Can I purchase this type of wire at a hardware store or do I have to go to the Stained Glass shop?> I'm not sure just by your description, but I use regular copper wire, 18 gauge, which I purchase at the local home improvement center (i.e. Home Depot). The might have it stored in the "Fasteners" or "Electrical" or even "Plumbing" sections, so you might have to search it out, but it is there. I use this copper wire for external structural reinforcement on non-framed pieces, such as lampshades and free-form panels. However, most little suncatchers do not require reinforcement unless there is a specifically weak section which requires it. If the pattern calls for reinforcement to be place BETWEEN copper foiled pieces, the product to use is called Re-Strip. It is a flat coiled piece of thick brass or steel coated with copper, which is used between the foiled pieces prior to soldering. The soldering will completely engulf the Re-Strip, leaving your piece nice and strong and the Re-Strip invisible. Re-Strip can be purchased from just about any stained glass supplier. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 08:35:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:34:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wepop.mediaone.net!slally From: Sean Lally To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: great scanner! Date: Wed, 10 Dec 97 08:33:55 -0800 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>> In reference to my "computer woes" Most everyone answered I shoulda got a >>MAC! >>> >>> Great idea, but the guru I originally asked didn't steer me toward a mac. >>> This is what I now know I should have instead of struggling with Corel 50, >>> Photo Paint, which is unnecessarily complicated. >> >>Be glad you don't have a Mac, Pat. I use CorelDraw *all* the time and >>it's a very powerful tool. With as much memory as you've got, you're >>in great shape for speedy work ... that 3.6gig drive won't last long, >>though, if you're doing lots of scanning. The scans eat up drive >>space, although you can archive them on the Zip disks quite easily. >>Have fun! >> >>Albert >Albert >come on! > >you can get coreldraw for the Mac as well! and a lot less headaches >setting up your computer! >I speak with my computer support hat on instead of my Glass hat :-) > >Along with 3 colleagues I am responsible for educational computer support >for 300+ schools in Glasgow we get a lot less bother from our Mac users Not to perpetuate any sort of computer jihad, but as another support professional (mac, wintel, solaris, linux) I have to mess with my users macs much less than the wintel machines. That's the last I'll say on the subject, I promise. ;^) Just so that there's something relating to glass in my post...I finished tack soldering together the first of three panels in a teddy bear lamp (worden pattern) I'm making for our new son's room last night and it looks lovely. :^) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 09:14:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:13:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CColdfeet From: C Coldfeet To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass 101: Nightlights Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:11:02 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec10.17112.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Karen, Have never done a nightlight, but where in Northern Mi are you located? E- mail separately if you like. c coldfeet ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 10:11:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:11:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: Tracy Reitmann To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: C Coldfeet Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:14:21 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.61421.0> References: <<1997Dec10.17112.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Another Minnesotan??? C Coldfeet wrote: > > Karen, > Have never done a nightlight, but where in Northern Mi are you located? E- > mail separately if you like. > c coldfeet > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 11:34:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:32:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: New Web Page Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:22:13 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec10.192213.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I have tried on 4 separate occasion to find Ted's web page at the following address: http://members.stratos.net/ted (I also tried with www in from of members followed with a "." and with ".html" after). Did I miss part of the address somewhere along the line? I went scanned through the first 100 addresses of the 164,000 options. Thanks in advance! LElsbury@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 12:09:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:07:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ee.net!pucky From: "Sheila" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: New Web Page Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:13:47 -0500 Message-ID: <199712102009.PAA11056@ee.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have used the following address and it worked for me. The lamps are beautiful ! I just doubled clicked the address in this msg. and it takes me right to Ted's page. Sheila Ohio ---------- : From: LElsbury : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: Re: New Web Page : Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 2:22 PM : : I have tried on 4 separate occasion to find Ted's web page at the following : address: http://members.stratos.net/ted (I also tried with www in from of : members followed with a "." and with ".html" after). Did I miss part of the : address somewhere along the line? I went scanned through the first 100 : addresses of the 164,000 options. Thanks in advance! LElsbury@aol.com : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 12:28:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:27:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stratos.net!ted From: "Theodore P. Hasenstaub" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD057F.E94153C0" Subject: RE: New Web Page Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:24:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.102427.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD057F.E94153C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI, Some people are having trouble accessing my web page. Others don't. Over = 70 people have logged in. I just do not know the answer as to why some = can and others have trouble. The address is correct at = http://members.stratos.net/ted Ted -----Original Message----- From: LElsbury [SMTP:LElsbury@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 2:22 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: New Web Page I have tried on 4 separate occasion to find Ted's web page at the = following address: http://members.stratos.net/ted (I also tried with www in from = of members followed with a "." and with ".html" after). Did I miss part of = the address somewhere along the line? I went scanned through the first 100 addresses of the 164,000 options. Thanks in advance! LElsbury@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD057F.E94153C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjgUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQARAAAAUkU6IE5ldyBXZWIgUGFnZQD2BAEF gAMADgAAAM0HDAAKAA8AGAAbAAMALwEBIIADAA4AAADNBwwACgAPABUAEAADACEBAQmAAQAhAAAA RTFFMUFFNDM3MjcxRDExMTg1QTg0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAAyQYBA5AGANAGAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAAL ACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AEBhqZypBb0BHgBwAAEA AAARAAAAUkU6IE5ldyBXZWIgUGFnZQAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvQWpnIdDruHicXIR0YWoREVT VAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEAAAAHRlZEBzdHJhdG9zLm5ldAADAAYQ u+rv2AMABxD/AgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASEksU09NRVBFT1BMRUFSRUhBVklOR1RST1VCTEVBQ0NF U1NJTkdNWVdFQlBBR0VPVEhFUlNET05UT1ZFUjcwUEVPUExFSEFWRUxPR0dFRElOSUpVU1RET05P VEtOT1dUSEVBTgAAAAACAQkQAQAAAMADAAC8AwAAnwUAAExaRnVCtLCSAwAKAHJjcGcxMjUWMgD4 C2BuDhAwMzOdAfcgAqQD4wIAY2gKwOBzZXQwIAcTAoMAUKEQdnBycTIRdn0KgNkIyCA7CW8OMDUC gAqBbHVjAFALA2MSEgvEILhISSwKogqECoBTA3DgZSBwZW8LUBhwCsCLGHARAHYLgGcgdANg5nUC YBjhY2MHkACQGYFAbXkgd2ViGIBhgGdlLiBPdGgEkKUEIGQCICd0G4F2BJB8IDcRYBiVGUEYcAkA ZxkbYGQgC4AbgEkgaox1cwVAHBAgbm8FQP5rHxAH4BuxGPAAgBsABcBKYQQgdB7wd2ga4HP9GFJj A5EAcB4QHyAbwx1zyxm1G4BUH7JkZAlwBBGvBAAhMAWwCXBjBUBhBUEWdQlQGyBoAkBwOi+uLweA BtAb0S4esHIkgMpvJeBuEUAvdAmACiDvAUAkwAFAF5lUJtEXmReI4QswbGkzNgFAFpAnUQ8DYCbA JFASBDE2IC31K3JPBRBnC4AHQAXQGmF/G1ErcxeGKoQnUwsxKoZpMC0xNDQBQCnQMTheMAFADNAv ExsgRgNhOgMMgycAIExFbHNiAwhwGuBbU01UUDopMTZAYQbwLgWgbV3fF4UbIAZgAjAwp1cJgCaA gHNkYXksIEQFkA0lkyAPQDUgMTk5N5AgMjoyEvBQTTM3tFRvMKdnC2AEEEAxcN0PIGky4jM4GeBq JEEwp7hSZToHszSQGyBQG1H/LR8uKinUC7YXkx5wIjUIkOshoQOgNCDgZQqxJIAYcPZvGkAgUGk/ YSCBLuAhkX0oIScEIBsGJHIfogIQbP8JAAPwDyAXhCNVOrADMBaSvyTAJQ8mHSoyJzFEICgecP8H QCDwPvUD8BuwGvBIcB4h90DwA2EhsGYXhEU1QqVH9uBhICIuIiFzSCNLMLlEwG1sS1EBgASQKRuA 7TUwaR4QHnBtBAIKsQVA/0kwH5JDSyDjILAEkBjhCQDPGYIfsR2wC4BlP0QgHnD/GwACMCDgIUEm gB4QG7AZwfZnSFBCc2kRIAVAD0AnVY8jVQeRThQ1wDY0LC+g+xFgGLB0QJFFkEQgIxAAcGZrI7Eh YWR2AHAaUCGvRCAyLheELNhGBbFzGeD/BPRAkhDxDyAHkDUgGMEgUL8YcADAAxEggDqwOBMtCXD+ cQpQHrA4bjdgP6EhkSCB/x+iKdAesDUgXtNazzgvF7H7BxAQ8GkckAQgGVBbQQGgrxjSBUFEXEhx Ljh3L2AzK0amKF8KE4EAZuADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwYKcPK6kFvQFAAAgw YKcPK6kFvQELAAGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAO4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgA8gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMA PYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwBGgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUA AAAAAAADAEeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMASIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwBLgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAFuACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBcgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAB4AXYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAA AAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAASpc= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD057F.E94153C0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 12:44:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:43:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:40:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.104026.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Sam & Elizabeth- Please DO keep your eyes out for the lead mill - I'd be eternally grateful (at least for Michael's sake)! He's particularly interested in one with templates for assorted profiles. I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to post it with stainedglassbiz since there are at least two of us interested. = Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 13:16:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:14:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Rowan LeCompte Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:40:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.104040.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Len- An ol' customer of ours stopped by last week with that AARP article and and it piqued my interest enough to want more information about him. Can any of the historians out there fill us in or let us know if anything has been written about LeCompte. The article stated that his first = contribution to the Monument was at the tender age of sixteen! Wonder if there's a web site showing his lifetime of work (?) Best regards from windy, snowy Colorado! Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 13:21:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:20:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: reinforcing wires for suncatchers Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:20:41 -0800 Message-ID: <199712102120.NAA16830@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> >> My question is what should I be using to reinforce the suncatcher? Does >> one use a jump hook or wire of some sort? The Wardell book I am using >> indicates wire of some sort but does not specific which one. The wire I >> used was much too thick for this job. The book states that this wire >> needs to be placed between the joints of certain pieces, so it needs to >> be thin. Can I purchase this type of wire at a hardware store or do I >> have to go to the Stained Glass shop? >> >> Teri Hi Teri, I'm new at this and don't know what the glass shops have to offer for reinforcement wire, but maybe some MIG wire for would be just the ticket. MIG wire is used for welding and is available at weld supply shops and many hardware stores. The most common type, E70S-6 is a mild steel wire with a tensile strength of 70,000PSI and has a thin copper coating on it. It's *very* strong and solders very nicely. The most commonly used sizes are 0.023"(aprox 23 gauge), 0.030"(aprox 21 gauge) and .035"(aprox 19gauge) You can buy it in 2 lb spools for about $10... Just a thought, Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 13:22:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:21:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: Tracy Reitmann To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: New Web Page Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:25:19 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.92519.0> References: <<1997Dec10.102427.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I used Netscape to get into it (and those are GREAT lamps, by the way!). I know I've had trouble in the past accessing certain web pages if I'm on Internet Explorer, but seem to have no problems ever using Netscape. Wondering if other people have the same experience. Theodore P. Hasenstaub wrote: > > HI, > > Some people are having trouble accessing my web page. Others don't. Over 70 people have logged in. I just do not know the answer as to why some can and others > > Ted > > -----Original Message----- > From: LElsbury [SMTP:LElsbury@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 2:22 PM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: New Web Page > > I have tried on 4 separate occasion to find Ted's web page at the following > address: http://members.stratos.net/ted (I also tried with www in from of > members followed with a "." and with ".html" after). Did I miss part of the > address somewhere along the line? I went scanned through the first 100 > addresses of the 164,000 options. Thanks in advance! LElsbury@aol.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Attachment 2 Type: application/ms-tnef > Encoding: base64 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 13:41:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:41:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Rowan LeCompte Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:21:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.11211.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk After Len's post about LeCompte, I just had to go back and re-read the AARP article. He did, in fact, create the first window for the Episcopal Washington National Cathedral at the age of sixteen. In 1973, he was commissioned to design and fabricate the 26-foot diameter Rose window for them. He has designed a total of 45 windows for the church and will next complete 18 clerestory windows that adjoin the "Creation" rose (15 x 30 feet each). What a commission! I'm a little envious! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 13:53:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:53:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hal-pc.org!kkelly From: "Kathryn C. Kelly" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:51:35 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.95135.0> References: <<1997Dec10.11211.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users Precedence: bulk Please provide me with some insights on how you price the stained glass items you sell. What factors do you take into account? Kathryn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 14:03:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:01:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:00:44 -0800 Message-ID: <199712102200.OAA24865@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >What a wonderful window! Nice photos too. However, I >can't help with the replacement glass, as the photos don't >show enough detail of that particular glass. But it sure was >a pleasure to see. >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA Yes, it is a wonderful thing isn't it? Scanned photos don't even remotely do it justice... It seems almost criminal to me that it's been neglected and in storage since 1965! It hadn't even seen a ray of sunlight for 30+ years until a month ago. I'm delighted to be a part of its restoration, and God willing we find the right glass, it should be back to it's full splendor soon! Sometime after Christmas I should have some good quality closeups of the glass we need scanned and will post them to the same site. I expect it may be very difficult glass to match, but the window is too special to not exhaust all possibilities before giving up... Peace, Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 14:03:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:01:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: New Web Page Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:00:47 -0800 Message-ID: <199712102200.OAA24871@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I have tried on 4 separate occasion to find Ted's web page at the following >address: http://members.stratos.net/ted (I also tried with www in from of >members followed with a "." and with ".html" after). Did I miss part of the >address somewhere along the line? I din't have any trouble finding it exactly as You typed it there... It's worth trying again, His lamps are quite beautiful! Peace, Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 14:04:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:01:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:00:37 -0800 Message-ID: <199712102200.OAA24834@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Steve Delanty writes: >If anyone has any leads on likely places to find old glass, please >mail me! > >Bob writes, >Contact John Bera in San Marcos, CA, at 619 744-9282 or perhaps 760 >744-9282. John has over fifty years experience with traditional glass. > I think he must have saved a case of glass each year. You will find >him to be most helpful. He also knows how to find glass that he does >not have. BTW, John does not own a computer or a diamond bandsaw but >he did buy a grinder for one of his helpers to use and yes he uses a >$1.95 Fletcher cutter. Still, I like him a lot and respect his advice. > >Just a kid, Bob Thank You Bob, I will certainly try and contact Him! Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 14:04:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:01:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:00:40 -0800 Message-ID: <199712102200.OAA24849@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> Anyway, just recently a lady friend of mine inherited a *beautiful* old >> window that used to be in her grandmothers old house in Sacramento, Ca. >> The house was a *very* ornate 4-story victorian, built by a very wealthy >> man for His new bride in 1862. We believe the window was "origional >equipment" >> in the house, so it's very old. > >Welcome to bungi. > >Great window.! I've seen similiar designs before. > >I can't claim to be an expert, but if you asked me if that window was built >in 1862 I'd have to say no. Looks more like 1880's-90's. > >What do you think Albert? Hmmm, Kenny sugested also that it might be 1880's rather than 60's.. We know quite a lot of the history of the house and know that a beautiful stained glass window went on the 3rd floor landing when the house was new in 1862.. Perhaps something bad happened to it and it was later replaced by this one. We also know that this one was repaired in the early 20's, so it's been in there at least that long. What are Your clues that it might not be 1860's? Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 14:08:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:06:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: C Coldfeet Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:56:37 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.85637.0> References: <<1997Dec10.61421.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk No -MI is Michigan MN is Minnesota. It matters little tho - The winters can be equally dismal in both. Tracy Reitmann wrote: > Another Minnesotan??? > > but where in Northern Mi are you located? > > c coldfeet > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?'"Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 14:38:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:37:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: New Web Page Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:27:05 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.9275.0> References: <<1997Dec10.192213.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk I see you are on AOL.Their reader/browers have not been very user friendly or of great quality. (I used to sub to them.) Some of the newer/smarter packages 'see' the url as hypertext in mail, and will 'jump' to the browser with the url already transported if you 'click' on it . If you don't have a good browser on AOL, you can use win3.x/95 'edit' to cut and paste, rather than type the url. Hilite the url, go to the 'edit' on the task bar, click 'copy' on the dropdown menu.. Jump to the browser, blank out the url that is there, leave the cursor indicator (blinking bar) there, click 'edit' again, click 'paste' on the dropdown menu The url should be there, Hit enter. Computers are frustratingly obedient, but equally stoopid. If you tell your pc to go to an invalid/incorrect url, it will do so forever, or until you lose it, and toss your shoe thru the monitor, or correct the url. One incorrect character will make it not work. Cut and paste is faster and more accurate.If none of the above works, and you have verified EVERY character in the url, you will prolly have to notify Customer Service. I have jumped to the above url, both with the 'jump' hypertext featue, and cut and paste, and have had no problem reaching the page of lamps. LElsbury wrote: > I have tried on 4 separate occasion to find Ted's web page at the > following > address: http://members.stratos.net/ted -- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?'"Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 14:52:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:52:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:49:20 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec10.224920.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-09 22:03:02 EST, you write: > I do have a question for you about > Hetley's - haven't checked their > web site NEW web site???? please share deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 15:08:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:07:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Grout Color Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:31:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971210173104.00729b20@pop.netrox.net> References: <<1997Dec10.17112.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello, Fellow Bungis, I have a grout question. I know you can buy colored grouts, but I've also read about adding acrylic tints to the dry mix before adding water. Does anyone have any experience with this? If so, would you please note any brand names you can think of ... also, are they powdered or liquid? Any other helpful hints. Until now, I've only used white grout ... and it's always sanded ... and not very white. Is that because of the sand? It seems unsanded white grout is much whiter! Thanks. M.-J. *%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%# "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." -- Herman Hesse, Demian *%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%# ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 15:59:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:58:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:58:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712102358.SAA27239@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani wrote, > >An ol' customer of ours stopped by >last week with that AARP article and >and it piqued my interest enough to >want more information about him. >Can any of the historians out there >fill us in or let us know if anything >has been written about LeCompte. >The article stated that his first = > >contribution to the Monument was >at the tender age of sixteen! Wonder >if there's a web site showing his >lifetime of work (?) > I wanna know what he's doing in a copy of AARP. I thought that was for retired people??? Older humans....those who have time on their hands. So if Mr. LeCompte was 16 in 1973 that only makes him still younger than me. I don't know if I am ready for an article in AARP. (Lite humore). The only thing I know about Mr. LeCompte is that he beat us out of a commission this summer. So I know that we are in good company anyway. I think that was "A Good Thing". If this sounds like rambling it probably is....these days we get to much cafe latte and not enough sleep. my best, pj I also put up a new installation on our site...http://www.waterw.com/~artglass it is listed under the link of New Commissions. Thought you would enjoy it Dani. :) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 18:57:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:55:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:50:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.165054.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi pj- I know what you mean about = the java! Long hours at the studio and then home to bake German Christmas cookies! So, back to LeCompte -- he got his first commission there when he was sixteen; the rose window came years later in 1973. I think the article said he's now 72 and going strong! I plan to follow in his footsteps at least in regards to working until I drop. I'll check out the new addition on your web site in the next couple of days. My brother has a new computer so thought I'd run through everyone's URL's on a decent piece of equipment, not that this old dinosaur hasn't served us well. Good to hear your "voice" again on bungi! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 19:01:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:00:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: "Jackie" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Grout Color Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:05:26 -0600 Message-ID: <199712110304.VAA14797@perham> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I use Acrylic paint the liquid. And I have used tempra powder and I always mix it in when it is wet. Jackie ---------- > From: M.-J. Taylor > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Grout Color > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 4:31 PM > > Hello, Fellow Bungis, > > I have a grout question. I know you can buy colored grouts, but I've also > read about adding acrylic tints to the dry mix before adding water. Does > anyone have any experience with this? If so, would you please note any > brand names you can think of ... also, are they powdered or liquid? Any > other helpful hints. > > Until now, I've only used white grout ... and it's always sanded ... and > not very white. Is that because of the sand? It seems unsanded white grout > is much whiter! > > Thanks. > > M.-J. > > *%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%# > "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. > What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." -- Herman Hesse, Demian > *%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%# > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 19:02:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:01:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 03:59:37 +0000 Message-ID: <199712110301.DAA05621@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Buninians, Hmmmm, don't they! Back to "rummaging" then! Because I have seen them advertised.... Life is never as easy as we would like... ;-) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK >I do have a question for you about >Hetley's - haven't checked their >web site yet and doubt if I would >find the answer to my question there >anyway. Do they still sell lead mills? >Please let me know if they do and the >cost - Michael will think he died and >went to heaven if he could actually >own one!! > No, they don't sell lead mills, but leave the thought with me and Sam may be able to track down a source amongst his oldtimer contacts. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 19:02:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:01:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 03:59:37 +0000 Message-ID: <199712110301.DAA05615@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Don, Precisely my point. I don't reject tools; what I was saying was, that they are no substitute for genuine hard-learnt skills. One can get obsessive about "gizmos". They are only tools, but not a substitute to skills. Learn the skills FIRST, says I, and then you will be able to be much more discerning of what tools you really require. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK It is just another tool. And a tool that takes some different skills to operate. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 20:09:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:55:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:50:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.165054.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi pj- I know what you mean about = the java! Long hours at the studio and then home to bake German Christmas cookies! So, back to LeCompte -- he got his first commission there when he was sixteen; the rose window came years later in 1973. I think the article said he's now 72 and going strong! I plan to follow in his footsteps at least in regards to working until I drop. I'll check out the new addition on your web site in the next couple of days. My brother has a new computer so thought I'd run through everyone's URL's on a decent piece of equipment, not that this old dinosaur hasn't served us well. Good to hear your "voice" again on bungi! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 20:36:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:00:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: "Jackie" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Grout Color Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:05:26 -0600 Message-ID: <199712110304.VAA14797@perham> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I use Acrylic paint the liquid. And I have used tempra powder and I always mix it in when it is wet. Jackie ---------- > From: M.-J. Taylor > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Grout Color > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 4:31 PM > > Hello, Fellow Bungis, > > I have a grout question. I know you can buy colored grouts, but I've also > read about adding acrylic tints to the dry mix before adding water. Does > anyone have any experience with this? If so, would you please note any > brand names you can think of ... also, are they powdered or liquid? Any > other helpful hints. > > Until now, I've only used white grout ... and it's always sanded ... and > not very white. Is that because of the sand? It seems unsanded white grout > is much whiter! > > Thanks. > > M.-J. > > *%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%# > "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. > What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." -- Herman Hesse, Demian > *%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%#*%# > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 20:54:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:01:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 03:59:37 +0000 Message-ID: <199712110301.DAA05621@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Buninians, Hmmmm, don't they! Back to "rummaging" then! Because I have seen them advertised.... Life is never as easy as we would like... ;-) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK >I do have a question for you about >Hetley's - haven't checked their >web site yet and doubt if I would >find the answer to my question there >anyway. Do they still sell lead mills? >Please let me know if they do and the >cost - Michael will think he died and >went to heaven if he could actually >own one!! > No, they don't sell lead mills, but leave the thought with me and Sam may be able to track down a source amongst his oldtimer contacts. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 21:05:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:04:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: softcom.net!mthaxton From: "Melissa Thaxton" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:55:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.125529.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have a question, what is a lead mill? From the other posts' about them they sound like a mold or something along that line. Would someone clue the clueless in. Thanks, Melissa -----Original Message----- From: Michael J. Greer To: INTERNET:glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 1:09 PM Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) >Dear Friends in the UK- > >Just ran up to Denver yesterday for >glass supplies and purchased a >Weller 100 for 35 US Dollars at >Artisans Wholesale Stained Glass. >I wonder if our American wholesalers >would ship to the UK. It doesn't sound >as though it would cost any more or >that the shipment would arrive in >any worse condition! > >I do have a question for you about >Hetley's - haven't checked their >web site yet and doubt if I would >find the answer to my question there >anyway. Do they still sell lead mills? >Please let me know if they do and the >cost - Michael will think he died and >went to heaven if he could actually >own one!! > >All the best for the holidays to you. >Thanks for sharing a few more words >with us - we miss you when you're silent! > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios > >P.S. Elisabeth - be sure and plan a = > >stop in Colorado should you visit the >US next autumn! >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 21:12:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:01:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 03:59:37 +0000 Message-ID: <199712110301.DAA05615@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Don, Precisely my point. I don't reject tools; what I was saying was, that they are no substitute for genuine hard-learnt skills. One can get obsessive about "gizmos". They are only tools, but not a substitute to skills. Learn the skills FIRST, says I, and then you will be able to be much more discerning of what tools you really require. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK It is just another tool. And a tool that takes some different skills to operate. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 10 21:16:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:15:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: New product for stepping stones.. Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:30:02 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.16302.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Diamondcrete.. is the name and here is a little of the info on it...Quick,strong and in 12 designer colors.I'll write what I have... All new Diamondcrete for stepping stones ,mosaics,coasters and wall plaques. Quick,easy and ready-to-use. Just add water and produce vividly colored stepping stones that are fully finished in 17 to 35 minutes! advanced chemical composition produces a satin smooth finish with superior strength that requires no extra reinforcement. 10lb boxes available in 12 colors(the 10 lb will do a 14in. round stone) The colors are Charcoal,Antique white,Brick Red,Gray, Dusty Plum,Golden Wheat,Garden Green,Terra Cotta Beige, Adobe Rose, Earth Brown,Powder Blue and Mauve.It has a porcelain finish, no wire reinforcement and has already been tested for cold and heat(how much,I don't know)It seems that it will sell for about $9.00 and $14.00 per 10 lb ( the difference in price is based on the colors ,the Powder Blue and the Mauve being the two at the higher price) We at St.Louis Stained Glass Studio will have them shortly... but I am only giving this info because of the excitement we are feeling ,waiting for the arrival.I'll pass on any more info as I receive it....... Don ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 00:11:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:10:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Grout Color Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 03:09:07, -0500 Message-ID: <199712110809.DAA11182@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk M.-J. writes: I have a grout question. I know you can buy colored grouts, but I've also read about adding acrylic tints to the dry mix before adding water. Does anyone have any experience with this? If so, would you please note any brand names you can think of ... also, are they powdered or liquid? Any other helpful hints. Bob writes, A few months ago I received a flier from Moondancer in Meadow Vista, CA, USA, offering 38 colors of mosaic topping mix & other stepping stone supplies. The topping mix seems cheap at an average price of $2. 12 for a 1.5 lb bag. You can request the flier or order at 916 878- 9595/FAX 916 878-9596. Please be advised that I know nothing of this company except what their flier has told me. Don't make stepping stones (yet), Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 01:12:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:11:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: tradition of cutting? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:05:50 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec10.17550.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well, I followed the thread of the tool issue as initiated with the use = of the grinder. Interesting to watch it bounce around. Toby wrote "The stained glass artist / craftsman relies on his ability and = dexterity in how to use his hands, his body, his balance to understand, = tame and cut glass with his hands. His versatility, craftsmanship, = interpretation rests in what he can do with his bare hands with this = mysterious, frozen temperamental liquid; how to tame it, train it, = master it . .....Almost like befriending, taming a wild animal, a = temperamental wild horse ... even. You don't do THAT with = machinery....An electric glass cutter and an electric grinder is no = SUBSTITUTE. It can never be." Very romantic approach almost passionate. I like romantic and = passionate. But the last phrase " An electric glass cutter and an = electric grinder is no SUBSTITUTE. It can never be." Well looking at = how cooking has evolved, I don't use the open fire anymore, gave up the = wood cook stove some 5 yrs ago (and it did produce some lovely bread). = What I'm trying to say is that to learn to cook well I don't feel that = it is necessary to know how to use a fire, or wood cook stove (which I = still can enjoy for aesthetic reasons), I live in the present and use = electric or gas. I do enjoy cutting glass the traditional way and the = less I use the grinder the better (mainly because excessive grinding is = not cost effective time wise as good glass cutting) ditto the saw (just = too slow to justify the cost). BUT give me a machine that is cost/time = efficient and does a better job (as long as I can control the quality) = and I will use it. Find me a shop sized inexpensive pressurized abrasive = water jet cutter and I will get it and use it (they exist, just not = available to the starving artist). To me the real issue is control of = quality and does it give me the result that I want.=20 Mike Simpson wrote "If I could offer my own - purely subjective - opinion on what a real = craftsman does and does not do. No real craftsman will adopt new tools = or techniques if they bring about a loss of control or quality, no = matter how trivial, in any aspect of their craft. Conversely, if there = is no loss whatsoever, most craftsmen will adopt new tools and = techniques very readily..." =09 Carol wrote "All crafts, and the arts associated with them, evolve due to changes in = available materials, resources, techniques and technologies (as well as = social conditions, philosophies, styles, etc.) If you want to insist = that nothing can be considered to be 'real' unless it's done the = traditional way, you shut out far too many possibilities for artistic = advancement." Carol and Mike seemed like I to want to emphasis the method is not as = important as the quality of the work. Toby then clarified his stand (and = dare I say backpedaled a little) when he added "I don't reject tools; what I was saying was, that they are no = substitute for genuine hard-learnt skills. One can get obsessive about = "gizmos". They are only tools, but not a substitute to skills. Learn = the skills FIRST, says I, and then you will be able to be much more = discerning of what tools you really require." There is an arguable point Toby as to the definition of "genuine = hard-learnt skills", seems you still want, even if a better all around = tool exists, to cook on the fire. One day using a glass cutter may be = just as archaic (tho admittedly not yet) and when that day comes I for = one will not be using a cutter and will not feel sorry for it, life is = change. So there is my contribution, my soap stand, my two cents (two pence). = And I am going to throw the gauntlet out on another issue, artist vs = artisan vs craftsman vs hobbyist.=20 Glenn Spicer The Studio Metamorphoses BC Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 01:15:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:15:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead mills explained Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 04:10:47, -0500 Message-ID: <199712110910.EAA19108@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Melissa writes: I have a question, what is a lead mill? From the other posts' about them they sound like a mold or something along that line. Would someone clue the clueless in. Thanks, Melissa Bob writes, I have never seen a lead mill (sometimes called a lead vice) but I do have a picture and a description. The lead mill clamps to the side of a workbench and by turning a large handle through gearing a preformed bar of lead (called a calm) is converted to cames as we know them. The exact came produced is a function of the particular set of dies installed in the lead mill. One needs a set of dies for each shape of came desired. No doubt it helps to grease the lead to be formed and stretching is required after forming. Not infrequently, when repairing an old window, the lead came can be observed to be milled (like a coin) along the heart. This is a sign of lead that has been produced in a mill rather than the hydrolic- drawn lead that is common today. Now, if you have a lead vice (estimated cost $1,200.00 with a few dies), make the necessary molds for the calms, do not mind melting and casting lead and want a workout turning the crank, you can produce greasy lead that is badly in need of stretching. Just the thing I want, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 04:31:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 04:29:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: great scanner! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:37:15 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Albert > come on! > > you can get coreldraw for the Mac as well! and a lot less headaches > setting up your computer! > I speak with my computer support hat on instead of my Glass hat :-) Okay, here I come: Mac is for those who prefer to drive an automatic; PCs are for those who prefer to drive a stick shift. Personally, I *want to know everything that's going on under the hood, but I also understand that not everyone else does want to know. I'll confess that the Mac OS is a superlative tool, but the Mac has obviously been mismanaged and poorly marketed. Microsoft's $150 million pat on the head was an entirely self-interested action ... expect the Mac to die a brilliant death in the business world and for Microsoft to eventually add it to its line, serving a discrete vertical market: the graphics industry. My 2c worth. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 04:32:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 04:29:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:37:15 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > For all you old farts out there and you know who you are there is a nice > little feature on LeCompte in the Dec AARP Bulletin if you get it. Len, Don't you just hate it that we're old enough to get the AARP Bulletin? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 04:32:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 04:29:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Era of geisha window Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:37:16 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I can't claim to be an expert, but if you asked me if that window was built > in 1862 I'd have to say no. Looks more like 1880's-90's. > > What do you think Albert? I showed it to Julie Sloan, who agreed that it's a good window, an old window, a well-built and well-designed window, but didn't say from what era it might be. I'll ask her. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 04:33:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 04:29:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: New Web Page Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:37:15 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I used Netscape to get into it (and those are GREAT lamps, by the way!). > I know I've had trouble in the past accessing certain web pages if I'm > on Internet Explorer, but seem to have no problems ever using Netscape. > Wondering if other people have the same experience. As a web designer myself, I know that MS Internet Explorer (like Windows 95 itself) is "one big bug." It doesn't interpret HTML code correctly all the time, it's flakey and it's badly supported (so what else is new from Microsoft?). That's why the line "Designed for Netscape. This page won't look right without it. Download it now." appears at the top of every page I design, complete with a link to Netscape. I use Microsoft tools, yes. I'm on a PC platform, yes. I still think Microsoft Corp. is a big bully. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 04:54:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 04:53:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:02:30 -0600 Message-ID: <199712111249.GAA23893@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Hmmm, Kenny sugested also that it might be 1880's rather than 60's.. > We know quite a lot of the history of the house and know that a beautiful > stained glass window went on the 3rd floor landing when the house was new > in 1862.. Perhaps something bad happened to it and it was later replaced > by this one. We also know that this one was repaired in the early 20's, > so it's been in there at least that long. > > What are Your clues that it might not be 1860's? There are folks on this list far more qualified to date that window then I am.....but for openers the use of opalescent glass, the plating and the art nouveau styling did not come into vogue until the the later part of the 19th century. I see a Tiffany influence. Have you checked closely to see if you could find a date or signature? Can be hard to find On the subject of the repair. I see from the photos that the large sky piece that is broken out completely is below a break (lead) line that carries across the panel horizontially to the other side of the figure. If I was doing the repair and I could not exactly match the missing sky glass, I would remove all the sky glass below that break line on both sides of the figure and replace all of it with an appropriate glass instead of just patching in one mismatched piece. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 05:19:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 05:17:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:14:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971211070810.12d7b2da@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear bungians, I have decided that it was time I found out how to use lead came.... (have always done copper foil). I have some lead came which came with the original stuff I bought (someone sold me their hobby shop). I was wondering if it was still okay to use, it was rolled up, but the H look pretty much all right, and it is pretty shiny and new looking... Also I have read that you need to stretch it before use. Included was a came stretcher, so that shouldn't be a problem, but the question is.... once stretched does it stay stretched, or do you need to stretch only what you need, or can you store it and use it later, or restretchit??? Besides getting it nice and straight, what else does stretching do if anything? Any other pitfalls I might unknowingly fall into all by myself??? I have read the chapters on this in both the books I have, and the old bungi posts which I have kept.... but sometimes they don't tell the whole story.... like the tip I just learned re: rubbing two pieces of glass together to knock off edges.... obvious once someone points it out! thanks to the people who did!!! Life wouldn't be so interesting if there were no new things to learn! Meg \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde, Puntarenas COSTA RICA phone 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 06:14:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:14:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:24:56 -0600 Message-ID: <199712111411.IAA27863@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 6:45 AM Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte > >> For all you old farts out there and you know who you are there is a nice >> little feature on LeCompte in the Dec AARP Bulletin if you get it. > >Len, > >Don't you just hate it that we're old enough to get the AARP >Bulletin? > Yeah...........but like they say..........when you consider the alternative......... Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 06:33:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:32:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:34:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199712110900.DAA00564@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: "Toby" > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Cutting glass > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 03:59:37 +0000 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > Dear Don, > Precisely my point. > I don't reject tools; what I was saying was, that they are no > substitute for genuine hard-learnt skills. One can get obsessive > about "gizmos". They are only tools, but not a substitute to skills. > Learn the skills FIRST, says I, and then you will be able to be > much more discerning of what tools you really require. > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > Sounds like we are really singing off the same page in the hymnal here. Also, last night I tried the suggestion someone made about using a piece of scrap glass to smooth the edges of pieces...it worked, at least on straight cuts. The result was a nice edge with just a very slight dulling of the sharp edge. No chips. Far smoother than with the power grinder, a little smoother than the stone. No dust. Quite fast. This would not work for fine shaping (IMHO) but it does keep the foil and fingers from getting cut. I just ran the scrap along each of the edges of each cut, starting in the center and working outward. One pass seems to be all that you need. The glass scrap I grabbed happened to be red, but I'm going to keep track of that little red scrap of glass! Thanks to whoever offered the suggestion. (Albert, maybe?) Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 06:50:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:49:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:46:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199712111448.OAA21732@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello jill, Decorative Glass Supplies are on "my list"... Have you got their new address , phone & fax in Bradford please (and are they on e-mail?). Once I have filled in some "holes" about exact addresses etc, and perhaps had a bit more input from other Bungi-people in UK, I will be quite happy to send UK Bunginians print-outs... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK jill wrote: I think you'll find they are now in Bradford. I discovered them about a month ago and they said they had moved from Bingley. I have found them to be helpful to a novice but I am told that their prices are quite high. I'm too new to the craft to know.-- ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 06:58:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 06:57:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: New Web Page Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:00:01 +0000 Message-ID: <199712110925.DAA00583@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > I used Netscape to get into it (and those are GREAT lamps, by the way!). > > I know I've had trouble in the past accessing certain web pages if I'm > > on Internet Explorer, but seem to have no problems ever using Netscape. > > Wondering if other people have the same experience. > > As a web designer myself, I know that MS Internet Explorer (like > Windows 95 itself) is "one big bug." It doesn't interpret HTML code > correctly all the time, it's flakey and it's badly supported (so what > else is new from Microsoft?). > > That's why the line "Designed for Netscape. This page won't look > right without it. Download it now." appears at the top of every page > I design, complete with a link to Netscape. I have never had a problem with either Netscape or Internet Explorer loading a page. I've had some difficulty with Explorer interpreting Netscape extensions correctly, and I've had some with Netscape interpreting Explorer extensions. As a professional Web Site Designer and the Director of Web Development for an ISP with a staff of designers, I would never tolerate a site coming out of our offices with a limiting statement like "You must use a certain browser to see this information." All the data on our pages must be viewable by any browser that an end user might be using, including Lynx. That means that graphics must have alternates, especially if they convey information or navigation. Frames must have a no-frames alternative. Pages must load within 30 seconds on a 14.4 modem, unless they are pages devoted to graphics, then only one large graphic per page. It also means the page must be viewable in 640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768 resolutions with minimum scrolling. Of course, if the client understands it limits access to his page by using those methods (Java, JavaScript, Shockwave, Flash, graphic intensive, etc.), we will do whatever he wants. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 07:05:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:04:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Glass Sample Sets Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:42:14 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.44214.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike Savad is looking for Santa to purchase some glass sample sets for his holiday gift. Mike - I purchased the following sample sets from Rainbow Art Glass out of Wall, NJ. They sell wholesale and retail. - Spectrum - Armstrong - Wissmach - Kokomo - glue chip (various manufacturers) - clear textured (various manufacturers) I purchased the Uroborus sample set from Warner-Crivellaro up in Allentown, PA. They sell retail and are working on starting to sell wholesale. I purchased my Youghegheny sample set second-hand from a gallery owner who didn't have any use for it. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 07:10:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:09:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hawk.rmplc.co.uk!mdcglas From: Phil To: "Albert" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: great scanner! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 15:10:43 +0000 Message-ID: <199712111509.PAA09049@mx0.rmplc.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert you said >that the Mac OS is a superlative tool, but the Mac has obviously been >mismanaged and poorly marketed. Microsoft's $150 million pat on the >head was an entirely self-interested action ... expect the Mac to die >a brilliant death in the business world and for Microsoft to >eventually add it to its line, serving a discrete vertical market: >the graphics industry. My 2c worth. Point taken Apple's ability to shot themselves in the foot is second to none, however as you say Microsoft will have to add to its line to properly serve the graphics industry our corporate graphics team would rather have parts of their anatomy removed rather than give up their Macs!!!!! ;-) Phil Phil Speedwell Computer Technician Microcomputer Development Centre Education Support Service Glasgow City Council ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 07:11:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:10:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: great scanner! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:12:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199712110938.DAA00599@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Okay, here I come: Mac is for those who prefer to drive an automatic; > PCs are for those who prefer to drive a stick shift. Personally, I > *want to know everything that's going on under the hood, but I also > understand that not everyone else does want to know. I'll confess > that the Mac OS is a superlative tool, but the Mac has obviously been > mismanaged and poorly marketed. Microsoft's $150 million pat on the > head was an entirely self-interested action ... expect the Mac to die > a brilliant death in the business world and for Microsoft to > eventually add it to its line, serving a discrete vertical market: > the graphics industry. My 2c worth. > > Albert > I agree with you, Albert. Mac is a fine system as long as you don't want to do anything out of the ordinary. It is a wonderful graphics design machine. It works perfectly if you want to pull it out of the box, plug it in and go. My systems are a bit to complex for a Mac. I connect from WinNT to the internet via a unix box. I also am attached to a Novell network. The bottom line is that no matter where I decide to work, one of three offices or home, I get the same desktop and the same programs with the same configurations in any location. All of the computers are mounted as drives on the other system so I never have anything that isn't accessible from anywhere. I can print to any printer located anywhere on our network. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 07:22:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:20:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:42:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.4429.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by Charles Warner: >Do professionals on this list use coolant?< Nope. Just fresh clean water changed often. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 07:29:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:27:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Sample Sets Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:24:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.52428.0> References: <<1997Dec11.44214.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > > Mike Savad is looking for Santa to purchase some > glass sample sets for his holiday gift. > > Mike - I purchased the following sample sets from > Rainbow Art Glass out of Wall, NJ. They sell wholesale > and retail. > - Spectrum > - Armstrong > - Wissmach > - Kokomo > - glue chip (various manufacturers) > - clear textured (various manufacturers) > > I purchased the Uroborus sample set from Warner-Crivellaro > up in Allentown, PA. They sell retail and are working on > starting to sell wholesale. > > I purchased my Youghegheny sample set second-hand from > a gallery owner who didn't have any use for it. > > Christie A. Wood > Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass do you remember about how much the sets cost at rainbow? i've been there, and would'nt mind going back. but i also know they don't quote prices over the phone. maybe if i tried email... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 07:34:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:33:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: artisticglassusa.com!studio From: studio@artisticglassusa.com (Artistic Glass of Atlanta) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Please remove me from the list Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:31:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Please remove me from the list. I am leaving town for a few months. studio@artisticglassusa.com www.artisticglassusa.com Studio@artisticglassusa.com Atlanta, Georgia USA Phone: (770) 992-2900 Fax: (770) 518-8686 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 07:35:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:34:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison From: ItsAlison To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:31:23 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec11.153123.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Just one more thought about adding coolant to water for your grinder, for those of us who have cats. (my cat has a fondness for the grinder water for some reason, and will take a sip now and then) Anti-freeze is fatal to cats, and you never know when they will take an opportunity ,behind our backs, to have a sip of the water that floats just below the grinder grid. So give it some thought if you have cats that roam through your studio area. ~Alison~ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 07:47:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:45:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wepop.mediaone.net!slally From: Sean Lally To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: great scanner! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 07:45:32 -0800 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I agree with you, Albert. Mac is a fine system as long as you don't >want to do anything out of the ordinary. It is a wonderful graphics >design machine. It works perfectly if you want to pull it out of the >box, plug it in and go. My systems are a bit to complex for a Mac. >I connect from WinNT to the internet via a unix box. I also am >attached to a Novell network. The bottom line is that no matter >where I decide to work, one of three offices or home, I get the same >desktop and the same programs with the same configurations in any >location. All of the computers are mounted as drives on the other >system so I never have anything that isn't accessible from anywhere. >I can print to any printer located anywhere on our network. Hey, sounds just like my office (minus the novell, not much need for that on our end), 'cept we do it with Macs (and pcs and unices...). I know I promised I wouldn't say anything else, but I just can't let misinformation go unchallanged. Let's take it offline. :^) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 08:19:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:18:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Geisha window's date Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:12:20 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I spoke with Julie Sloan about the date of the geisha window in Sacramento, CA. She says that since it's made of opalescent glass and since opalescent glass wasn't invented until the 1880s, the window can't be older than that. But the style of the window puts it in the 1890s but not later than 1910. There was a huge enthusiasm for things Japanese during the 1890s, so it's likely from that period. The 1880s is doubtful, since there was a war on at the time, which would have forced delivery of the window to be made by ship around the Horn, making it prohibitively expensive for even a wealthy owner. So she puts it at 1890-1910. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 08:38:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:36:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: great scanner! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:43:34 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > properly serve the graphics industry our corporate graphics team would > rather have parts of their anatomy removed rather than give up their > Macs!!!!! ;-) I suspect that quite a few serious operations are in order for corporate IS department graphics staff members. The future's writ large on the wall ("mene mene tekel upharsim") and (to mix metaphors) sticking one's head in the sand ain't gonna work. Apple's demise (or adoption by some corporate giant with a better head for business) is imminent and inevitable, I'm afraid. What does this have to do with glass? Those of us who use, depend on, or even *love the Mac platform are gonna have to bite the bullet someday and switch over to the prevailing system, just as we now all watch VCRs instead of BetaMax, even though BetaMax was the superior technology. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 08:38:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:36:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:43:34 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > the other side of the figure. If I was doing the repair and I could not > exactly match the missing sky glass, I would remove all the sky glass below > that break line on both sides of the figure and replace all of it with an > appropriate glass instead of just patching in one mismatched piece. The accepted approach would be to save as much if not all of the old glass itself, edge-gluing the glass and reinstalling it. Sounds like some of it is missing, though, so you're right, Len, to think about relacing it with as close a match as possible. Some restorers even have the glass manufactured to match, at no small expense, but it's the restorer's job to respect the choices made by the original artist and/or studio in taking a window back to its original state. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 08:38:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:37:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: PC vs Mac ... web sites Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:43:34 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: "Don McDonald" > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: great scanner! > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:12:57 +0000 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > > Okay, here I come: Mac is for those who prefer to drive an automatic; > > PCs are for those who prefer to drive a stick shift. Personally, I > > *want to know everything that's going on under the hood, but I also > > understand that not everyone else does want to know. I'll confess > > that the Mac OS is a superlative tool, but the Mac has obviously been > > mismanaged and poorly marketed. Microsoft's $150 million pat on the > > head was an entirely self-interested action ... expect the Mac to die > > a brilliant death in the business world and for Microsoft to > > eventually add it to its line, serving a discrete vertical market: > > the graphics industry. My 2c worth. > > > > Albert > > > I agree with you, Albert. Mac is a fine system as long as you don't > want to do anything out of the ordinary. I'm sure we'll get some Mac devotees who disagree with us (cult members that they are) but you and I see eye to eye on the flexibility, power and benefits of the PC platform, yes. Okay, my comment on web sites, encouraging people to use Netscape over MSIE, is certainly arrogant on my part, but it's also the result of p*ss*ness at MS's attitude. I do keep all browsers in mind when I design and I plan for pages to be viewable by as many as possible, but it does irk me that true quotation marks (for instance) can't be read and interpreted by MSIE. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 09:07:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:05:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: digital.net!agw From: Jennifer Daniels To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Art Glass World Update Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:05:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712111705.MAA03956@ddi.digital.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --Art Glass World Update-- New Sponsors and Updates-- The Crafts Fair Online This resource has a wealth of information for crafters of many mediums. Site includes individual craft artists, holiday crafts, group shows and malls, supplies and materials, craft publications, news groups, craft software, national show listings, ideas and instruction, message boards, search engine and a crafts quiz. Visit from their sponsorship banner on the AGW Billboard at www.artglassworld.com/wwwboard/index.html. Diamond Tech International Visit DTI's updated site for information on their new products, Dynasty Lamp Bases, MosaicArt Box forms, MosaicArt Book 2, and Bevel Max Beveling Cones. Download a FREE set of Mosaic Holiday Ornament/Coaster patterns and request free product information. Visit at www.artglassworld.com/supply/dti. Glass Craft Expo '98 Read what crafters had to say about Glass Craft Expo '97 and plan to attend Glass Craft Expo '98, March 12-15, Las Vegas, Nevada. Details coming soon or contact Las Vegas Management for more information. Visit at www.artglassworld.com/supply/lvm. News and Features-- Happy Holidays Need a last minute gift for your favorite glass crafter? Or do you deserve a gift to yourself? The top glass magazines, Glass Art, Glass Patterns Quarterly, Glass Craftsman and Stained Glass Quarterly are available to order online at Art Glass World. Visit www.artglassworld.com/magazine.html to learn more about these magazines, read featured articles and order directly online. A great gift and time saver. Art Glass World Recognized by Microsoft Network AGW is featured on Microsoft Network's Internet Guide "One Click Away." Microsoft states that OCA is designed "to let people know what's useful, fun, and sites that must be seen. We're interested in linking to Web sites that have something of value for our visitors." AGW has been awarded MSN's featured web site badge. This is accomplishment for Art Glass World, our sponsors, visitors and the stained glass industry. Thanks for being a part of AGW. Q&A's From Stained Glass News SGN answers new questions "Can you use any glass for fusing?" and "Other than cost differences, what are the advantages/disadvantages of 60/40 and 50/50 solder?". Check out past questions for helpful tips and techniques. Visit from the Education page at www.artglassworld.com/edu.html. Featured Web Site of the Week Mosaic Gardenstones - Get ready for spring. You've heard about the new mosaic butterfly forms and patterns. Now see them for yourself. Molds come in two sizes with several different pattern designs available. Each mold come with a FREE full sized pattern, color picture and instructions. Retail and wholesale information available. Visit at www.artglassworld.com/supply/llartco. ================================================================ Diamond Tech International dti@digital.net 4002 W. State Street toll-free: 800-937-9593 Tampa, FL 33609 USA phone: 813-872-4404 www.artglassworld.com/supply/dti fax: 813-872-6288 ================================================================ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 09:36:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:35:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Margaret41 From: Margaret41 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: signing name Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:28:47 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec11.172847.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I think this is a wonderful idea - thanks for the tip! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 09:45:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:44:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: PC vs Mac ... web sites Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:46:01 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Okay, my comment on web sites, encouraging people to use Netscape > over MSIE, is certainly arrogant on my part, but it's also the result > of p*ss*ness at MS's attitude. I do keep all browsers in mind when I > design and I plan for pages to be viewable by as many as possible, > but it does irk me that true quotation marks (for instance) can't be > read and interpreted by MSIE. > > Albert I didn't say I liked MS's attitude. Or their web site! I did have one rather interesting problem with the Netscape/MSIE interpretation of a table once. The table looked great in MSIE, but when I loaded it in Netscape, the whole thing sort of turned inside out. There was a missing character of some kind, I don't remember what now. I do miss the on Netscape but I like the way MSIE handles bookmarks. They each have their advantages and problems. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 09:49:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:48:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Margaret41 From: Margaret41 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:35:24 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec11.173524.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk How can I receive a copy of the score? Thanks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 09:52:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:51:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Grout Color Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:06:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.6635.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by M-J: >I have a grout question. I know you can buy colored grouts, but I've als= o read about adding acrylic tints to the dry mix before adding water. Does anyone have any experience with this? If so, would you please note any brand names you can think of ... also, are they powdered or liquid? Any other helpful hints. Until now, I've only used white grout ... and it's always sanded ... and not very white. Is that because of the sand? It seems unsanded white grou= t is much whiter< Yes, I've colored the grout using acrylic tints. I've used the liquid acrylics and just added them in while mixing the grout with water. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 10:02:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:01:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: tradition of cutting? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 10:59:33 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1997Dec10.17550.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > and I will use it. Find me a shop sized inexpensive pressurized abrasive = > water jet cutter and I will get it and use it (they exist, just not = > available to the starving artist). sign me up for one of these too. about what do they run? > Carol and Mike seemed like I to want to emphasis the method is not as = > important as the quality of the work. Toby then clarified his stand (and = > dare I say backpedaled a little) when he added just a little nit: toby is elisabeth's dog. toby is a he, elisabeth is a she. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 10:37:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:35:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re : Toby - was tradition of cutting? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:30:06 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.18306.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 10:59 11/12/97 -0700, Charles wrote: >just a little nit: toby is elisabeth's dog. toby is a he, elisabeth is a she. Sam & I had decided that Toby must be Elisabeth's cat - close guess, eh. Must be because of input from Lucifer (our Siamese) Elizabeth & Sam Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 10:46:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:45:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: abrasive water jet cutters Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:39:39 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.23939.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Charles wrote Glenn: > Find me a shop sized inexpensive pressurized abrasive > water jet cutter and I will get it and use it (they exist, just not = =3D > available to the starving artist). Charles replied: Do you know where I can find one? I know inexpensive is not the correct = word. So, just won a lottery Charles? And yes, inexpensive is hardly the right = word, but until it is I won't be having one! If you get one be prepared = to make job cutting your mainline and stained glass a hobby so you can = make the payments, (unless of course you did win the millions!) There is an excellent article in the Stained Glass Quarterly of the SGAA = (volume 90, number3, fall 1995) by Douglas Hallberg There are numerous sites on the web regarding water jet cutters, for = info on the history go to=20 http://irautomation.com/waterjet/history.htm and "locally" try Ihab Kane, Vice President of water jet marketing, = Ingersoll-Rand, Inc., Detroit. MI, or Dr. George Savanick, editor of Jet = News, the monthly publication of Water Jet Technology Association, 818 = Olive St., suite 918, St. Louis, MO 63101-1598, tel (314) 241-1445, Fax = (314) 241-1449 or Marcel Bally, Marketing Manager, Bystronic, Inc, = Hauppauge, NY If you have a lot of repetitive work you might consider having someone = setup in this business to do it for you. Hope this helps you in your = quest for info. Glenn Spicer The Studio Metamorphoses BC, Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 11:00:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:59:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Toby Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:54:27 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.25427.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Charles Spitzer Wrote: just a little nit: Toby is Elisabeth's dog. Toby is a he, Elisabeth is a she. Wish I could get my dog Sasha to do all my typing Glenn Spicer The Studio Metamorphoses BC, Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 11:37:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:36:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:04:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.9422.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hey you guys! Have you ever considered that maybe AARP is sending those bulletins to people who are WAY too young! Give me a = break - 50 is no age! Look at Rowan LeCompte at 72! And here's me, allegedly middle-aged now and I feel like a teenager - only started hitting my stride a few years ago. There's an attitude in our society that needs to fly out the window! Okay, I'm getting off my soap box now. (Could someone help me, please.... Just Kidding!!;-D) Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 12:42:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:40:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Antifreeze in my grinder water? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:00:22 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.3022.0> References: <<1997Dec10.44315.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Summit Stained Glass (see us at: http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Charles, Charles, Charles, PALEEEZE, don't tell these folks to use antifreeze in their grinder water. If you feel that you need to add something for lubrication, try baby oil, cooking oil or something water soluable, but NON-TOXIC ..... and certainly not antifreeze! This is worse than using kerosene for cutter lubricant. Please take some time to look up the MSDS on ethylene glycol. It can be reached throught the ACTS banner on the IGGA website. Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass charles wrote: > > KC wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I am new in stained glass. I was told that adding coolant in the > > water reservoir of the ginder can prolong the life of the grinding > > bit. Is there a special kind of coolant for the grinder, or can we > > just use any kind? > > Coolant lowers the surface tension of the water. I think anti-freeze > works as well at a much reduced cost. Basically coolant is a water > soluble oil. > > One thing the retail customer overlooks in purchasing coolant is > factoring in the extended life of the bit AND the cost of the coolant. > In our experience the cost of the coolant exceeds the value of the > extended life of the grinder bit. W-C has 10 grinders set up for > customer > use and evaluation, coolant is not used even with those machines. > > W-C sells the 3/4" Inland grinder bit for only $14.35 item #4170-01 > 8 oz bottle of router coolant $2.49. item #4110-14 > At Warner-Crivellaro's prices it doesn't make any sense to purchase > coolant. I understand in some else's catalog these items are > $17.95 and $4.35. You do the math, even at the much higher prices > coolant cost isn't justified. > > BTW grinder bit prices will be dropping soon. Inland is under pressure > due to the introduction of competitive grinder bits and dropped the > minimum distributor order of 3/4" standard grinder bits from 96 to > whatever quantity the distributor will take. Next the grinder companies > will be dropping prices on bits. > > Warner-Crivellaro sells its own name brand bits; the "2-Timer", they > last twice as long as Inland bits for only $4.50 more in cost. > item #4182-02s $18.85 > > Here is one of those questions like the bandsaw use of professionals. > Do professionals on this list use coolant? > > Charles Warner > Warner-Crivellaro > http://www.warner-criv.com/ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 12:43:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:40:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!ElsieTurqman From: Elsie Turqman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:38:02 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.13382.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len Read the article, really enjoyed it. I've seen all his windows at the Cathedral. They are great and not the usual church windows, he has a rock from the moon in the one about the moon landing. Elsie At 01:17 PM 12/10/97 +0000, you wrote: >For all you old farts out there and you know who you are there is a nice >little feature on LeCompte in the Dec AARP Bulletin if you get it. > >Who is he? Well he's the guy who designed and fabricated the Creation rose >window at the National Cathedral in Washington D.C. thats all. > >Len > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 13:28:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:27:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: reinforcing wires for suncatchers Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:16:03 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec11.21163.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-10 23:29:34 EST, you write: > the wire should be bought at a stained glass store, so you know it's > solderable. otherwise it may be galvanized and solder will never stick > to it. i think i use 18 ga, or 20 ga. you want to put it on a seam on > the back. you don't want to attach it just to the foil, because it will > rip. > > ---Mike Savad I have to dissagree with you on this one Mike, all you have to do is make sure you get copper wire and its much cheaper at the hardware store. I happen to be lucky that hubby has spools and spools of copper wire in different gauges so I peel off the covering and use it. if its a short piece it can just be pulled out of its casing longer and you have to cut or burn it off. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 13:29:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:28:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:28:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712112128.QAA21954@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >> For all you old farts out there and you know who you are there is a nice >> little feature on LeCompte in the Dec AARP Bulletin if you get it. > >Len, > >Don't you just hate it that we're old enough to get the AARP >Bulletin? > >Albert Ah........How do I get a copy of this bulletin??? For those of us who haven't hit the wonder years yet? Oh never mind I'll call my mom. She is old enough to get it. Oh and I was also informed that my communications skills stink.....when I said that MR. LeCompte "beat" us out of a commission. The word "beat" mean physical abuse and we were not physically abused by him... Although that committee was a bit heavy...oops I better watch my communication skillsagain...heavy no they were not heavy...in fact most were small petite women. (Whew..I guess that was called back peddling).. I should I have said....."He was considered instead of us" or something like that. Mr. Head Honche glassman told me this early today so I am now to stand corrected.. my best, pj (who knows that fourteen days till the holidays is not enough....could someone please give me a few more....ah can we more them to oh say the 27 or even the 28th? And if possible January woul be even nicer.) Oh well I guess if we can't help Dani no one will help me. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 13:43:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:42:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:41:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712112141.QAA22619@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani wrote, >Hi pj- > >I know what you mean about = > >the java! Long hours at the >studio and then home to bake >German Christmas cookies!>>] Ah who is baking these cookies??? I don't have any in my kitchen? Could you ask whom every it is if they forgot to come to New Jersey??? Oppss never mind...I just reread the sentence and it is you....sorry!!! > >So, back to LeCompte -- he >got his first commission there >when he was sixteen; the rose >window came years later in >1973. I think the article said >he's now 72 and going strong! >I plan to follow in his footsteps >at least in regards to working >until I drop.>> Well lets see when I hit seventy-two.............I hope the studio has relocated to Bora Bora or Fuigi or even Tahiti. Otherwise this damp (and I said DAMP) weather will drop me alot sooner. > And one more thing...could you keep the snow in Colorado? I am not really looking for a white christmas and the elves have a big installation to do next week and the week after and don't like deliveries in snow or ice. my best, pj (who thinks that a wonderful Christmas gift for her right now would be more than four hours sleep). ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 14:10:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:09:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Antifreeze in my grinder water? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:09:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712112209.RAA23990@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Oh my >Charles, Charles, Charles, Really didn't suggest using antifreeze in their grinder??? UHOH.....this list is monitered by OSHA.............beware. Only kidding...just not a good practice to recommend things not really sure about. Although he did add the disclaimer that he was a new stained glass person. I think responsible adult should be manditory with that label. pj ( who wonders is she puts whipped cream in her grinder...............will I get eggnog? NEVERMIND! )> > >PALEEEZE, don't tell these folks to use antifreeze in their grinder >water. If you feel that you need to add something for lubrication, try >baby oil, cooking oil or something water soluable, but NON-TOXIC ..... >and certainly not antifreeze! This is worse than using kerosene for >cutter lubricant. > >Please take some time to look up the MSDS on ethylene glycol. It can be >reached throught the ACTS banner on the IGGA website. > >Mike Peck >Summit Stained Glass > > > >charles wrote: >> >> KC wrote: >> > >> > Hi everyone, >> > >> > I am new in stained glass. I was told that adding coolant in the >> > water reservoir of the ginder can prolong the life of the grinding >> > bit. Is there a special kind of coolant for the grinder, or can we >> > just use any kind? >> >> Coolant lowers the surface tension of the water. I think anti-freeze >> works as well at a much reduced cost. Basically coolant is a water >> soluble oil. >> >> One thing the retail customer overlooks in purchasing coolant is >> factoring in the extended life of the bit AND the cost of the coolant. >> In our experience the cost of the coolant exceeds the value of the >> extended life of the grinder bit. W-C has 10 grinders set up for >> customer >> use and evaluation, coolant is not used even with those machines. >> >> W-C sells the 3/4" Inland grinder bit for only $14.35 item #4170-01 >> 8 oz bottle of router coolant $2.49. item #4110-14 >> At Warner-Crivellaro's prices it doesn't make any sense to purchase >> coolant. I understand in some else's catalog these items are >> $17.95 and $4.35. You do the math, even at the much higher prices >> coolant cost isn't justified. >> >> BTW grinder bit prices will be dropping soon. Inland is under pressure >> due to the introduction of competitive grinder bits and dropped the >> minimum distributor order of 3/4" standard grinder bits from 96 to >> whatever quantity the distributor will take. Next the grinder companies >> will be dropping prices on bits. >> >> Warner-Crivellaro sells its own name brand bits; the "2-Timer", they >> last twice as long as Inland bits for only $4.50 more in cost. >> item #4182-02s $18.85 >> >> Here is one of those questions like the bandsaw use of professionals. >> Do professionals on this list use coolant? >> >> Charles Warner >> Warner-Crivellaro >> http://www.warner-criv.com/ >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 14:27:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:26:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:23:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.122338.0> References: <<1997Dec11.153123.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ItsAlison wrote: > > Just one more thought about adding coolant to water for your grinder, for > those of us who have cats. (my cat has a fondness for the grinder water for > some reason, and will take a sip now and then) Anti-freeze is fatal to cats, > and you never know when they will take an opportunity ,behind our backs, to > have a sip of the water that floats just below the grinder grid. So give it > some thought if you have cats that roam through your studio area. > ~Alison~ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass however, the cat may still be eating the powdered glass that's in the water. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 14:33:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:33:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:30:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.12303.0> References: <<1997Dec11.173524.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Margaret41 wrote: > > How can I receive a copy of the score? Thanks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass just go to their site, and sign up, it should be listed as "the score" somewhere on the site. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 14:38:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:37:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: reinforcing wires for suncatchers Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:34:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.12348.0> References: <<1997Dec11.21163.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk DMR74 wrote: > > In a message dated 97-12-10 23:29:34 EST, you write: > > > the wire should be bought at a stained glass store, so you know it's > > solderable. otherwise it may be galvanized and solder will never stick > > to it. i think i use 18 ga, or 20 ga. you want to put it on a seam on > > the back. you don't want to attach it just to the foil, because it will > > rip. > > > > ---Mike Savad > I have to dissagree with you on this one Mike, all you have to do is make > sure you get copper wire and its much cheaper at the hardware store. I happen > to be lucky that hubby has spools and spools of copper wire in different > gauges so I peel off the covering and use it. if its a short piece it can > just be pulled out of its casing longer and you have to cut or burn it off. > deb > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the one thing i don't like about copper, is that it oxidizes quickly. which means i can get a spool today, and in a few years, i would have to steel wool it. latley i've been using that brass wire. my favorite wire is that pre-tinned stuff. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 15:08:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:07:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: PC vs Mac ... web sites Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:15:20 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > They each have their advantages and > problems. Kinda like us'ns, right? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 16:03:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:03:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:02:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712120002.TAA29204@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >ItsAlison wrote: >> >> Just one more thought about adding coolant to water for your grinder, for >> those of us who have cats. (my cat has a fondness for the grinder water for >> some reason, and will take a sip now and then) Anti-freeze is fatal to cats, >> and you never know when they will take an opportunity ,behind our backs, to >> have a sip of the water that floats just below the grinder grid. So give it >> some thought if you have cats that roam through your studio area. > > >however, the cat may still be eating the powdered glass that's in the >water. > >---Mike Savad > Yikes this one has me really concerned. How many people are doing this stuff in their kitchens where they eat. Or anywhere that is accessible to unknowing little people and animals. Ginder water should not be taken lightly.....in other words not only is it bad for yourself its also not good to put into your sewer system. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 16:40:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:39:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:36:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.143630.0> References: <<199712120002.TAA29204@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > > >however, the cat may still be eating the powdered glass that's in the > >water. > > > >---Mike Savad > > > Yikes this one has me really concerned. How many people are doing this > stuff in their kitchens where they eat. Or anywhere that is accessible to > unknowing little people and animals. > > Ginder water should not be taken lightly.....in other words not only is it > bad for yourself its also not good to put into your sewer system. > > my best, > pj > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass generally when i clean the grinder, i scrape up the goo, and throw it out. i used to keep it, using a torch i melted some of it, and had an ugly brown green sculpure; reminiscent of doggie doo. after that i now throw it out, all those colors mixing together, eww. besides i have enough junk to hold onto. then i suck up the water with an old turkey baster, and a sponge. unfortunally my grinder is'nt a pop top, makes it a lot harder to clean. in either case, grinder water is the last thing to think about if your set up in a kitchen. solder, flux, patina, shards, would be on the top of my list. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 17:36:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:35:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:23:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.152348.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi pj- Did Paul give you a ration about = sharing the LeCompte story? Sounds like Michael! Pooey on the boys - we're the ones who take the time to share and communicate with the world! They just talk a great line.... in private!;-)) Best regards, Dani P.S. I think it's great that you were in the running with LeCompte to begin with - says a lot about the caliber of your studio.... not that WE didn't know that already! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 18:02:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:02:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nobleco.net!glass From: "Wallace, Paul" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Antifreeze in my grinder water? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:00:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.13038.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >and certainly not antifreeze! This is worse than using kerosene for >cutter lubricant. Definatly don't think antifreeze would be good idea since it is toxic. We did have a problem in our studio though. My wife gotr a painful nail fungas after a very costly round of medication the Dr. suggested dailey cleaning of the grinder since the fungas thrives in warm water. in a pinch and can't take time to clean out the grinder? The Dr suggested a tsp of bleach. It seems to work. no re-occurances of the infection. Same applies to the band saw. Paul Bumblebee stained glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 18:35:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:35:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Antifreeze in my grinder water? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:28:19 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec12.22819.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk One or two capfuls of coolant in your grinder is good for the bit. I really don't find it that expensive given the amount you use - I find it less expensive than replacing a bit. Just my opinion. LElsbury@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 19:41:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:40:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tznet.com!diacca From: Pat Diacca Topp To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Antifreeze in my grinder water? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:21:14 -0600 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971211212114.007a43e0@mail.tznet.com> References: <<1997Dec10.44315.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Where's Mona? Haven't heard from her in a long time.....Pat At 09:00 AM 12/11/97 -0600, you wrote: >Charles, Charles, Charles, > > >PALEEEZE, don't tell these folks to use antifreeze in their grinder >water. If you feel that you need to add something for lubrication, try >baby oil, cooking oil or something water soluable, but NON-TOXIC ..... >and certainly not antifreeze! This is worse than using kerosene for >cutter lubricant. > >Please take some time to look up the MSDS on ethylene glycol. It can be >reached throught the ACTS banner on the IGGA website. > >Mike Peck >Summit Stained Glass > > > >charles wrote: >> >> KC wrote: >> > >> > Hi everyone, >> > >> > I am new in stained glass. I was told that adding coolant in the >> > water reservoir of the ginder can prolong the life of the grinding >> > bit. Is there a special kind of coolant for the grinder, or can we >> > just use any kind? >> >> Coolant lowers the surface tension of the water. I think anti-freeze >> works as well at a much reduced cost. Basically coolant is a water >> soluble oil. >> >> One thing the retail customer overlooks in purchasing coolant is >> factoring in the extended life of the bit AND the cost of the coolant. >> In our experience the cost of the coolant exceeds the value of the >> extended life of the grinder bit. W-C has 10 grinders set up for >> customer >> use and evaluation, coolant is not used even with those machines. >> >> W-C sells the 3/4" Inland grinder bit for only $14.35 item #4170-01 >> 8 oz bottle of router coolant $2.49. item #4110-14 >> At Warner-Crivellaro's prices it doesn't make any sense to purchase >> coolant. I understand in some else's catalog these items are >> $17.95 and $4.35. You do the math, even at the much higher prices >> coolant cost isn't justified. >> >> BTW grinder bit prices will be dropping soon. Inland is under pressure >> due to the introduction of competitive grinder bits and dropped the >> minimum distributor order of 3/4" standard grinder bits from 96 to >> whatever quantity the distributor will take. Next the grinder companies >> will be dropping prices on bits. >> >> Warner-Crivellaro sells its own name brand bits; the "2-Timer", they >> last twice as long as Inland bits for only $4.50 more in cost. >> item #4182-02s $18.85 >> >> Here is one of those questions like the bandsaw use of professionals. >> Do professionals on this list use coolant? >> >> Charles Warner >> Warner-Crivellaro >> http://www.warner-criv.com/ >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 20:06:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:04:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:23:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.152346.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Now, all this talk about grinders got me to look at ours. It doesn't appear that any of the studio cats can get under the grids to the water reservoir... whew! I do notice some ground glass accumulation though - I don't think these gadgets have ever been cleaned. So, I = just had this brilliant idea to take the glass powder and sift it onto epoxied paper to make = pastel paper. I do that often mostly with marble dust so = why not glass? Hmmmmm.... if that makes a nice ground, I might have to start using the grinder more. (Oops, who said that?!) Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 20:09:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:07:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:06:55 -0800 Message-ID: <199712120406.UAA07879@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 11:43 AM 12/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >> the other side of the figure. If I was doing the repair and I could not >> exactly match the missing sky glass, I would remove all the sky glass below >> that break line on both sides of the figure and replace all of it with an >> appropriate glass instead of just patching in one mismatched piece. > >The accepted approach would be to save as much if not all of the old >glass itself, edge-gluing the glass and reinstalling it. Sounds like >some of it is missing, though, so you're right, Len, to think about >relacing it with as close a match as possible. Some restorers even >have the glass manufactured to match, at no small expense, but it's >the restorer's job to respect the choices made by the original artist >and/or studio in taking a window back to its original state. > >Albert It's our intention to restore the piece as close to origional as possible, but with some extensive iron work to make sure it lasts for many more generations to enjoy. It deserves the best job we can do. Not only is it a beautiful old piece of art, but it has old childhood memories for Her when She and her sister used to go to Grandmas house and sit on the stairs and stare at it that window for hours. She's got young grandkids now who will grow up seeing it in their Grandmas house, and I'd like it to still be in good shape when their grandchildren see it some day... We will use as much origional glass as possible, but some is missing and some is little more than a box of gravel, so replacement glass must be found somewhere. She has very little money to spend on this, but we're willing to be patient and work as many leads as possible to find the right glass... It scares me to even ask about having glass manufactured! I'm sure it's very expensive... Do You know aprox how expensive? Who does this type of glass repro work? Thanks for all the help! Peace, Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 20:09:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:07:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:07:02 -0800 Message-ID: <199712120407.UAA07898@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> What are Your clues that it might not be 1860's? >There are folks on this list far more qualified to date that window then I >am.....but for openers the use of opalescent glass, the plating and the art >nouveau styling did not come into vogue until the the later part of the >19th century. I see a Tiffany influence. Hmm, I understand about the opalescent glass and the Tiffany influence. Kenny talked about this a bit also. I don't know what You mean about "the plating"... Can You explain this to me? I'm still a major newbie at this, but learning quickly. (-: >Have you checked closely to see if you could find a date or signature? Can >be hard to find > We've been over it pretty close, and haven't found date or sig. I don't think it has one. I wish it did... >On the subject of the repair. > >I see from the photos that the large sky piece that is broken out completely >is below a break (lead) line that carries across the panel horizontially to >the other side of the figure. If I was doing the repair and I could not >exactly match the missing sky glass, I would remove all the sky glass below >that break line on both sides of the figure and replace all of it with an >appropriate glass instead of just patching in one mismatched piece. Oh please, Oh please, Oh please, I hope we find the right glass... We're willing to be patiant and search to the best of our ability to find what we need, but there's not a lot of $$ to spend on this either so repro is probably out of the question. Oh please, oh please... Peace, Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 20:13:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:11:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:11:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.181158.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > Don't you just hate it that we're old enough to get the AARP > Bulletin? I thought the best thing about turning 50 was being able to join AARP. One day I'm standing in line waiting for the "old" guy in front of me to get his "senior" discount, and the next day I'm demanding it myself! Speaking of senior discounts, what's with IGGA not offering one? Where's our senior discount of glass? Hummmm. Seems like a little activist action is in order! Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 20:31:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:30:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: New Web Page Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:30:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.183038.0> References: <<199712110925.DAA00583@eve.corp.ccti.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > Frames must have a no-frames alternative. Pages must load within 30 > seconds on a 14.4 modem Don- Bless you!!! bless you!!! bless you!!! Many a site has been stopped cold after that 30 second attention span has passed. What? They think that a site with "millions" of colors is going to be closer to real? Ah, but I smell a soap box coming on. Thank you for your efforts to create web sites worth going to. Hilary PS To beat a dead horse into mush, my husband, who shall remain nameless, was Editor-In-Chief of a **Windows** magazine, which must remain nameless, and the entire magazine was produced on Macs. There were only Windows machines around to test software on. But, then, being productive was their main goal, not tweeking... ;-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 11 23:14:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:13:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: blackall.demon.co.uk!jill From: jill blackall To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:07:56 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec11.23756.0> References: <<199712111448.OAA21732@pluto.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <199712111448.OAA21732@pluto.nildram.co.uk>, Toby writes >Hello jill, > >Decorative Glass Supplies are on "my list"... Have you got their new >address , phone & fax in Bradford please (and are they on e-mail?). >Once I have filled in some "holes" about exact addresses etc, and >perhaps had a bit more input from other Bungi-people in UK, I will be >quite happy to send UK Bunginians print-outs... >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > Hello Toby, The address for Decorative Glass Supplies Ltd. is Essex Mills, Essex Street, Bradford, West Yorkshire, BD4 7PG. Tel (01274) 773801 Fax (01274) 773802 There is no e-mail address on their price list. When talking to the man in the shop he intimated that they had a website somewhere but I've not been able to find it. I look forward to receiving the list of suppliers. -- jill blackall ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 00:27:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:26:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hawk.rmplc.co.uk!mdcglas From: Phil To: "Bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Microsoft Christmas (not glass!) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 08:27:59 +0000 Message-ID: <199712120826.IAA01604@mx0.rmplc.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk A friend of mine just e-mailed this to me just thought it might appeall to some of you HAVE YOURSELF A MICROSOFT CHRISTMAS 'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house Not a creature was stirring, except Papa's mouse. The computer was humming, the icons were hopping, As Papa did last-minute Internet shopping. The stockings were hung by the modem with care In hope that St. Nicholas would bring new software. The children were nestled all snug in their beds, While visions of computer games danced in their heads. PageMaker for Billy, and Quicken for Dan, And Carmen Sandiego for Pamela Ann. The letters to Santa had been sent out by Mom, To santaclaus@toyshop.northpole.com - Which has now been re-routed to Washington State Because Santa's workshop has been bought by Bill Gates. All the elves and reindeer have had to skedaddle To flashy new quarters in suburban Seattle. After centuries of a life that was simple and spare, St. Nicholas is suddenly a new billionaire, With a shiny red Porsche in the place of his sleigh, And a house on Lake Washington that's just down the way >From where Bill has his mansion. The old fellow preens In black Gucci boots and red Calvin Klein jeans. The elves have stock options and desks with a view, Where they write computer code for Johnny and Sue. No more dolls or toy soldiers or little toy drums (ahem - pardon me) No more dolls or tin soldiers or little toy drums Will be under the tree, only compact disk ROMS With the Microsoft label. So spin up your drive, >From now on Christmas runs only on Win95. More rapid than eagles the competitors came, And Bill whistled, and shouted, and called them by name. "Now, ADOBE! now, CLARIS! now, INTUIT! too, Now, APPLE! and NETSCAPE! you are all of you through, It is Microsoft's SANTA that the kids can't resist, It's the ultimate software with a traditional twist - Recommended by no less than the jolly old elf, And on the package, a picture of Santa himself. Get 'em young, keep 'em long, is Microsoft's scheme, And a merger with Santa is a marketer's dream. To the top of the NASDAQ! to the top of the Dow! Now dash away! dash away! dash away - wow!" And Mama in her 'kerchief and I in my cap, Had just settled down for a long winter's nap, When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter, The whir and the hum of our satellite platter, As it turned toward that new Christmas star in the sky, The SANTALITE owned by the Microsoft guy. As I sprang from my bed and was turning around, My computer turned on with a Jingle-Bells sound. And there on the screen was a smiling Bill Gates Next to jolly old Santa, two arm-in-arm mates. And I heard them exclaim in voice so bright, Have a MICROSOFT CHRISTMAS, and TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT. Phil Phil Speedwell Computer Technician Microcomputer Development Centre Education Support Service Glasgow City Council ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 01:09:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:08:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB XX) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Antifreeze in my grinder water? Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:03:52, -0500 Message-ID: <199712120903.EAA19132@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LEIsbury writes: One or two capfuls of coolant in your grinder is good for the bit. I really don't find it that expensive given the amount you use - I find it less expensive than replacing a bit. Just my opinion. LElsbury@aol.com Bob writes, I use a product sold by the gallon (about $20.00) by CRL called Diamond Tool Coolant. It is mixed with 50 parts of tap water to yield a milkey slightly slippery solution. I long ago discovered that it is not necessary to believe everything that is printed. I do believe that the following, which is printed on my jug of coolant, is substantialy correct. *USES: To increase cutting speed and reduce tool wear. Designed for drilling, sawing, edging and beveling glass. A chemical emulsion concentrate, it contains no chemicals that will harm or affect glass, mirrors or mirror backings.* The above coolant is not a "safe" product for injestion. In my operation I diamond disk/wheel bevel about 200 inches of glass a week. This means that my hands are wet with the coolant solution for several hours a week. I do not know of any ill effects. I recirculate my coolant mixture after double settling out the glass residue. Evaporation calls for about a gallon of makeup water a week. The residue makes it to the landfill when I clean out my settling tanks every few months. I would never use antifreeze if for no other reason than it lacks the lubricity (yes, lubricity is a good word) that a designed diamond coolant additative has. I do believe that the coolant increases diamond life by about 50%+. To keep the common diamond grinder bit cool and free of debris plain water is probably satisfactory. To increase cutting speed and extend bit life a diamond coolant seems like a good idea. Grind on, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, USA 92026 Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 01:40:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:40:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:06:09 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.869.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971209092034.3067c88a@pop.erols.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <1.5.4.16.19971209092034.3067c88a@pop.erols.com>, clipper1@erols.com writes > I realized in the cold light of morning that my last post was too >harsh. I'm afraid I let a perceived analogy between real handmade and real >science push my buttons. > Next time I will take several deep breaths, remind myself how wrong >it is to take out gripes from one area of my life on the people I interact >with in another, and just stay lurking. > > very sorry. > I don't feel your apologies are necessary. I thought it a valuable contribution to the discussion (even if others did not) Steve >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 02:03:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:02:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Soldering iron supplies (UK) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:46:21 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.94621.0> References: <<199712090323.DAA16106@pluto.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <199712090323.DAA16106@pluto.nildram.co.uk>, Toby writes >Dear EliZabeth (and other UK Bunginians) > > I have now located a well-known & reputable UK manufacturer of >a 100 W iron which retails at UK Sterl. 12. For a beginner, this is >achievable and s/he has money left over to afford other tools. Could you share this with us all please? -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 03:13:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:13:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sf-mail.mfi.com!mfi__admin_at_mfi__exchange From: "MFI_Admin" To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="simple boundary" Subject: cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 03:13:43 -0800 Message-ID: <9712128819.AA881925223@sf-mail.mfi.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message is undeliverable. Reason: A platform specific error occurred while writing to a file. Likely disk full. Original text follows: --------------------- --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from daver.bungi.com by sf-mail.mfi.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) ; Fri, 12 Dec 97 02:00:02 -0800 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:40:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:06:09 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.869.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971209092034.3067c88a@pop.erols.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <1.5.4.16.19971209092034.3067c88a@pop.erols.com>, clipper1@erols.com writes > I realized in the cold light of morning that my last post was too >harsh. I'm afraid I let a perceived analogy between real handmade and real >science push my buttons. > Next time I will take several deep breaths, remind myself how wrong >it is to take out gripes from one area of my life on the people I interact >with in another, and just stay lurking. > > very sorry. > I don't feel your apologies are necessary. I thought it a valuable contribution to the discussion (even if others did not) Steve >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --simple boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 03:28:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:27:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:35:13 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > It's our intention to restore the piece as close to origional as possible, > but with some extensive iron work to make sure it lasts for many more > generations to enjoy. Merely adding extensive support bars isn't necessarily the answer, nor are "fins," which for some reason not grounded in historical fact are a popular "solution" these days. A sensitive examination of the window's points of failure should reveal whether more than what the original artist/studio provided is really necessary. > It scares me to even ask about having glass manufactured! > I'm sure it's very expensive... Do You know aprox how expensive? > Who does this type of glass repro work? Most any of the factories will do it and its cost will depend on how much you need. I suspect you won't need to do that, but a careful search and patience will turn up a piece close enough to the original to do the job. If you do decide to have glass manufactured, most likely the smaller production outfits would be the most reasonable ... try: Classic American Lighting 10140 Romandel Avenue Santa Fe Springs CA 90670 ..........................Phone: (310) 941-0149 ..........................Fax: (310) 941-5999 Schlitz Studios 245 No. Water Street Milwaukee WI 53202 ..........................Phone: (414) 277-0742 ..........................Fax: (414) 277-0505 Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 03:28:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:27:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:35:13 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > accumulation though - I don't > think these gadgets have > ever been cleaned. It'd probably be a good idea to clean them regularly, Dani. Moist environments breed bad bugs ... like Legionaire's Disease. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 03:29:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:27:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:35:13 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Speaking of senior discounts, what's with IGGA not offering one? Where's > our senior discount of glass? Hummmm. Seems like a little activist > action is in order! Actually, that's a good idea, but seniors should pay more, since they've already paid their dues and are making a serious living now. It's the young, up-and-coming glass artists and craftspeople who should be subsidized for the good of the craft, no? vbg right back atcha. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 03:29:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:27:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:35:13 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > We've been over it pretty close, and haven't found date or sig. > I don't think it has one. I wish it did... Not all Tiffany Studios panels were signed. It'd have to be carefully scrutinized by someone deeply familiar with the Studios' work to "positively" identify it as to source. It's not necessary to know exactly, though, since it's not being sold. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 04:04:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:04:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike From: Mike Simpson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Computer OS, was great scanner. Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:40:35 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <199712121040.KAA00447@jackel.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have had the mistaken impression that I would be the only Unix user on this group but recent postings form Carol, Sean Lally and Don Mcdonald have shown me to be wrong. I should have realised that in any group of people as "hands on" as stained glass the unix people would be well represented. I have a simple analogy that I use to show the differences between operating systems, I compare them with the directional indicator on a car. The Macintosh directional indicator is very competent at what it does and is comfortable to use. You can't change the way that it works but probably wouldn't want to. The Windows directional indicator often cancels itself halfway round a turn or doesn't turn off at all but you do have two or three different options to choose from. The MS-DOS directional indicator doesn't self cancel. The Unix directional indicator assumes that you will cancel it when you want it cancelled but you can get it to self cancel along with which lights it will flash, how bright, how often and what colour. It will also behave differently with different drivers and operate the passenger ejector seat but you have to read a 50 page manual to get it to do any of these things. Despite being almost pathologically anti-Microsoft, I have to recommend MS Windows to anybody now getting a computer, solely on the grounds of number of software/hardware suppliers and knowledgable people, books etc.. Mike Simpson. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 04:41:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:41:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Cheap Little Solder Iron Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:43:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.24317.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Last night I bought a cheap little solder iron at Walmart. The iron is a = Popular Mechanics brand, 30 watt, 925 degree maximum temp with three = little tips. I plan to try it for my decorative soldering on three = layered ships in a bottle. I suppose I can plug it into my reostat. = After I try it this weekend I'll let the group know how it works. Oh, = the thing was only $7.95. Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 06:02:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:01:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 08:57:56 EST Message-ID: <971212.090000.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1997Dec11.153123.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Antifreeze is poisonous, period, and apparently has a sweetish taste that animals love (I suspect little kids would too), so if you have it in your home and have kids or pets, you might want to rethink that. (I just use water) Dorothy K -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 06:08:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:05:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 09:02:44 EST Message-ID: <971212.090343.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1997Dec11.173524.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Years ago, I simply wrote Spectrum and asked to be put on their mailing list. However, The Score is supposedly online, so you'll get it faster that way. Dorothy K -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 06:40:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:34:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Computer OS, was great scanner. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:35:41 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Despite being almost pathologically anti-Microsoft, I have to > recommend MS Windows to anybody now getting a computer, solely > on the grounds of number of software/hardware suppliers and > knowledgable people, books etc. I had to smile, Mike. Couldn't agree more on that. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 06:53:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:49:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Computer OS, was great scanner. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:51:28 +0000 Message-ID: <199712120917.DAA00357@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > The Unix directional indicator assumes that you will cancel it when > you want it cancelled but you can get it to self cancel along with > which lights it will flash, how bright, how often and what colour. > It will also behave differently with different drivers and operate > the passenger ejector seat but you have to read a 50 page manual to > get it to do any of these things. > > Mike, That should be "...read a 50 page manual if you can find one." Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 06:54:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:51:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cheap Little Solder Iron Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:53:58 +0000 Message-ID: <199712120919.DAA00362@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Last night I bought a cheap little solder iron at Walmart. The iron is a = > Popular Mechanics brand, 30 watt, 925 degree maximum temp with three = > little tips. I plan to try it for my decorative soldering on three = > layered ships in a bottle. I suppose I can plug it into my reostat. = > After I try it this weekend I'll let the group know how it works. Oh, = > the thing was only $7.95. Linda, If it's like the one that was provided for a daycare center I do crafts with, the answer will be "Not well at all." Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 06:59:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:55:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!glass_artist From: glass_artist@juno.com (Lori J Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: reinforcing wires for suncatchers Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:21:02 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.2212.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Teri... I make a lot of suncatchers and it depends on size and weight as to whether I reinforce with wire or not. My small works (christmas ornament sizes) usually don't require any additional support. I have larger pieces ( anywhere from 5-10 inches in diameter ) that I feel better about giving them a little extra support. Some, I just solder the wire along the outside edge, covering with a bead of solder. With some of the larger hanging pieces I not only use the re-strip that Christie mentioned, but I may, occassionally, solder some wire in certain spots on the back of the piece. It's all up to you and the size, weight, and intricacy of the piece. I use 20 gauge copper wire that has been pre-tinned (it's just faster for me to use...personal preference) I usually purchase them from my local stained glass shop in 4 ounce spools (they're easy to handle in this small size) for about $4.00. Hope this helps, LJ ________________________________________________________________________________________ >My question is what should I be using to reinforce the suncatcher? >Does >one use a jump hook or wire of some sort? The Wardell book I am using >indicates wire of some sort but does not specific which one. The wire >I >used was much too thick for this job. The book states that this wire >needs to be placed between the joints of certain pieces, so it needs >to >be thin. Can I purchase this type of wire at a hardware store or do I >have to go to the Stained Glass shop? *********************************************************************** LJ Maas, Owner & Artist can be reached at: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design Handcrafted & unique stained glass gift items ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 07:05:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 06:57:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wepop.mediaone.net!slally From: Sean Lally To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Computer OS, was great scanner. Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 06:55:48 -0800 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Despite being almost pathologically anti-Microsoft, I have to >recommend MS Windows to anybody now getting a computer, solely >on the grounds of number of software/hardware suppliers and >knowledgable people, books etc.. Actually, when I originally wrote to Pat I told her that if Apple wasn't in the state it was in I'd get a mac, so I guess, technically, I didn't really tell her to get one. ;^) I think I would have if I thought Apple was going to be around (in a meaningful way) for awhile, oh well. >Despite being almost pathologically anti-Microsoft I'm pretty much the same there. Anytime someone wants to use an NT box for something at work I somehow get a linux one in there instead. ;^) Wouldn't the Apple logo be pretty as a sg panel? [My obligitory sg reference so I don't start getting booed... ;^)] Sean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 07:18:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:14:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:10:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.51057.0> References: <<1997Dec11.152346.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer wrote: > > Now, all this talk about > grinders got me to look at > ours. It doesn't appear that > any of the studio cats can > get under the grids to the > water reservoir... whew! I > do notice some ground glass > accumulation though - I don't > think these gadgets have > ever been cleaned. So, I = > > just had this brilliant idea to > take the glass powder and sift > it onto epoxied paper to make = > > pastel paper. I do that often > mostly with marble dust so = > > why not glass? Hmmmmm.... > if that makes a nice ground, I > might have to start using the > grinder more. (Oops, who said > that?!) > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the one bad part about the plan, is that if any of the glass dust surface is exposed, and you get it on your skin, it will itch like crazy. it's still glass, just like fiberglass, should'nt be breathed in, or touched with bare hands. if it's coated in something like a few layers of polyurethane (maybe matt), that could work. but do to the thickness of the glass, the paper might crack open, and you still might have problems... BTW what is epoxyed paper? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 07:18:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:17:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:13:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.51353.0> References: <<199712120407.UAA07898@sub.sonic.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk sdelanty@sonic.net wrote: > > >> What are Your clues that it might not be 1860's? > > >There are folks on this list far more qualified to date that window then I > >am.....but for openers the use of opalescent glass, the plating and the art > >nouveau styling did not come into vogue until the the later part of the > >19th century. I see a Tiffany influence. > > Hmm, I understand about the opalescent glass and the Tiffany influence. > Kenny talked about this a bit also. > I don't know what You mean about "the plating"... Can You explain this > to me? I'm still a major newbie at this, but learning quickly. (-: > > >Have you checked closely to see if you could find a date or signature? Can > >be hard to find > > > > We've been over it pretty close, and haven't found date or sig. > I don't think it has one. I wish it did... > > >On the subject of the repair. > > > >I see from the photos that the large sky piece that is broken out completely > >is below a break (lead) line that carries across the panel horizontially to > >the other side of the figure. If I was doing the repair and I could not > >exactly match the missing sky glass, I would remove all the sky glass below > >that break line on both sides of the figure and replace all of it with an > >appropriate glass instead of just patching in one mismatched piece. > > Oh please, Oh please, Oh please, I hope we find the right glass... > We're willing to be patiant and search to the best of our ability to > find what we need, but there's not a lot of $$ to spend on this either > so repro is probably out of the question. > Oh please, oh please... > > Peace, > > Steve Delanty > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass plating: is when you stack the glass in layers. the komono was plated, the back is one color, the front another. it helps give it a larger color range. unfortunally it also makes it alot harder to fix. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 07:24:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:22:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fast.net!charles From: charles To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Antifreeze in my grinder water? Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:23:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.5239.0> References: <<1997Dec11.3022.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mike peck wrote: > > Charles, Charles, Charles, > > PALEEEZE, don't tell these folks to use antifreeze in their grinder > water. > > > > Coolant lowers the surface tension of the water. I think > > anti-freeze works as well at a much reduced cost. Basically > > coolant is a water soluble oil. Sorry if you read this as an endorsement of antifreeze, it was only used as an example of something else to perform the same purpose. Almost anything that lowers the surface tension will work as well as coolant. If you read the entire post you would have read that I don't recommend the use of anything, replacement cost of bits is less expensive, and maybe less harmful, than coolant in a hobby environment. Someone made a good point that their cat drinks grinder water and antifreeze might harm the cat... does anyone know if pulverized glass in grinder water builds strong bodies? Maybe baby oil in grinder water will make shinier fur? The original question was if coolant is worth the cost. I sell more coolant than all but a few wholesalers, yet my opinion is that it is better not to waste the money, in a HOBBYIST ENVIRONMENT which was the context of the original question. Some interesting things came out of this thread such as germs in grinder water. Never thought of that. We clean the machines frequently to make them more appealing and because the pulverized glass will solidify over time to create other new and exciting problems. Charles Warner Warner-Crivellaro http://www.warner-criv.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 07:29:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:28:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cheap Little Solder Iron Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:25:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.5255.0> References: <<1997Dec12.24317.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > Last night I bought a cheap little solder iron at Walmart. The iron is a = > Popular Mechanics brand, 30 watt, 925 degree maximum temp with three = > little tips. I plan to try it for my decorative soldering on three = > layered ships in a bottle. I suppose I can plug it into my reostat. = > After I try it this weekend I'll let the group know how it works. Oh, = > the thing was only $7.95. > > Linda Campbell > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass chances are, even for decorative work, the iron may not have enough umph, to melt the base solder. generally it's designed for electricians solder, which melts at a lower temerature, is hollow in the middle, has a smaller diameter, and it does'nt have to melt existing solder... but it's worth a shot. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 07:31:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:28:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LByrne21 From: LByrne21 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Still No Mail Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:17:29 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec12.151729.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk It's been a week, and still no mail coming in from Bungi. Please re-instate me on the mailing list. Or, can anyone help as to why I'm receiving other e- mail, but, nothing from Bungi? Any help would be appreciated. Lavergne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 07:39:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:39:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:35:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.53555.0> References: <<199712100429.UAA15565@sub.sonic.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk sdelanty@sonic.net wrote: > > Hello good people! > > I've recently joined this list, and its time to introduce myself... > > I've always loved stained glass, but have never done any work with > it before. A few years ago, I became good friends with a fellow > who has been working with glass and restoring old windows for 30+ years. > He's a true master craftsman, and it's a delight to see all the beautiful > glasswork in his house, and see all the photos and rubbings of old windows > he's worked on. > > Anyway, just recently a lady friend of mine inherited a *beautiful* old > window that used to be in her grandmothers old house in Sacramento, Ca. > The house was a *very* ornate 4-story victorian, built by a very wealthy > man for His new bride in 1862. We believe the window was "origional equipment" > in the house, so it's very old. > It's a fairly large piece, with a glass area of about 4' x 5'2" > It has inadequate iron support across it and has been very badly stored > for 30+ years and needs serious help. > It has several broken and missing panels and many of the panels were popped > out of the lead. > > A couple weeks ago, I carefully crated it up and trucked it 110 miles > to Kennys shop north of Santa Rosa Ca, and We started repairing it. > This is a new experiance for me, but under Kenny's supervision I've done > quite a lot of the repair work myself. (of course, a good deal of the work > so far has just been cleaning old grout out of lead lines and soldering > many broken joints.) > It's a real joy to be part of the restoration of this fine old artwork... > > Miraculously, we've been able to come up with perfect matches for several > broken pieces, but we've got a problem with 2 large critical pieces that > have been tough to match... > > If any one knows of any sources for *old* glass or anyone out there has > some glass in their garage that was removed from old windows I would > appreciate any possible leads. > > Photos of this fabulous old piece can be seen at: > > http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/geisha.htm > > The 3 photo's are unlabeled, but top to bottom are: > Window on Kenny's table, before beginning. > Window stood up, viewed from the front or inside. > Window stood up, viewed from the rear or outside. > That's Kenny in the pictures... > > Much of the glass is double layered. The ladys kimono is a layer of acid > etched red glass and a layer of pearly white glass with flowers hand > painted between the layers. The face and hands are also double layer with > hand painting between them. The blue water is double layered with 2 different > patterns and textures of glass, which makes it move and shimmer a bit when > You move past it. > The piece looks very different when viewed from front or rear. Very beautiful > both ways, but quite different. > > The piece we are most desperate to find is the blue/white in the sky, which has > a pale pink tint in the white portion. It has a bit of texture to it, like > drapery glass, but just a little bit. It's very old and may be german. > We need 2 pieces about 5" x 14" to do the job... > > If anyone has any leads on likely places to find old glass, please mail me! > > > I'm going to get some good close-up photos of the glass types we need and > post them as soon as possible, and maybe (short prayer here...) someone out > there can help us. > > Hope You enjoy the pics! > > Steve Delanty > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i took a second look at it, i wonder if it was made my John LaFarge, the border with the little flowers in it kind of reminds me of him. and i think he's done other japanese themes. i have a picture of a fish panel he made, and the flowers on your tree, and his brach look identical. i wonder if yougehgheny (sp?) has the right color for the tree. the sky i'm not sure, do to jpeg loss, it's difficult to say what the color may be. though some of the glass looks like uroboros (the mountains), maybe they used the same manufacturer. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 08:13:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:11:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city.lethbridge.ab.ca!scottd From: "Don Scott" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Cheap Little Solder Iron Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:57:40 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.05740.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk A while ago, I purchased a small Weller iron (35 watt) and while it does not have a lot of "umph", it does a very nice job on small projects or if you are doing intricate work in one area of your project. It works well for fine decorative soldering. Mine though was $35.00 Cdn. and only had one tip. Good luck with yours Linda. Don Scott Alberta, Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 09:32:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:24:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: B J Snell To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Cheap Little Solder Iron Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:27:26 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971212122726.006b873c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> References: <<1997Dec12.24317.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Linda, Let us know how the iron works out.... I have been doing a lot of decorative soldering lately and would be very interested to know more about it.... may even make a trip to Walmart for one myself.... At 07:43 AM 12/12/97 -0500, you wrote: >Last night I bought a cheap little solder iron at Walmart. The iron is a = >Popular Mechanics brand, 30 watt, 925 degree maximum temp with three = >little tips. I plan to try it for my decorative soldering on three = >layered ships in a bottle. I suppose I can plug it into my reostat. = >After I try it this weekend I'll let the group know how it works. Oh, = >the thing was only $7.95. > > >Linda Campbell >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >
0000,0000,8080~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 8080,0000,0000Barbara J. Snell Manager, Balch Dining Cornell University
0000,0000,8080 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 10:44:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:38:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Computer OS, was great scanner. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:46:27 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > That should be "...read a 50 page manual if you can find one." You guys read manuals? I just use the index ... if I need it. Which isn't to say I'm so smart I can figger it out myself, thank you. It just means my computer wizard is always saying "RTFM!" But then he answers whatever question I have, which does away with the need. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 11:24:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:21:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:55:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.85517.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Albert- I don't like bugs.... yuck. = Fortunately, the grinders are usually as dry as Colorado. Michael gives me such grief when I use one that it's hardly worth the trauma. However, the point is well-taken. Gads, the things we learn on bungi! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 11:36:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:27:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Computer OS, was great scanner. Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:29:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.92924.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Okay, I've stayed out of this thread so far but this is just too good to pass up. The reason I bought my first Mac in 1982 is so I have to read the manuals ...She says from her pentium pc at work. I'm done, just had to defend my mac. Linda Albert said: You guys read manuals? I just use the index ... if I need it. Which isn't to say I'm so smart I can figger it out myself, thank you. It just means my computer wizard is always saying "RTFM!" But then he answers whatever question I have, which does away with the need. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 12:15:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:07:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Computer OS, was great scanner. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:09:12 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > That should be "...read a 50 page manual if you can find one." > > You guys read manuals? I just use the index ... if I need it. Which > isn't to say I'm so smart I can figger it out myself, thank you. It > just means my computer wizard is always saying "RTFM!" But then he > answers whatever question I have, which does away with the need. > > Albert > But...I am my computer wizard. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 13:09:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:05:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:05:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712122105.QAA18229@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani wrote, > >I don't like bugs.... yuck. = > >Fortunately, the grinders are >usually as dry as Colorado. >Michael gives me such grief >when I use one that it's hardly >worth the trauma. However, >the point is well-taken. Gads, >the things we learn on bungi! > I wonder if there is some frieudian thing about ginders?? No one likes to clean them. No one likes to change the bits. No one likes to empty the stuff from inside. Geezzz we never had these problems with the stones we used to use to smooth the glass edge. Oh well the hazards of progress. Dani? Sounds as if Michael is a clone of Paul just located in Colorado. The things we put up with for the sake of art are amazing. We save all of out glass dust. Hoping to send it off to space with the rest of the gabage from this planet. (Only kidding ....for those who think at this time of year I could be serious about anything!) Really we used to bury it. But I think Paul heard that wasn't a good idea either. Then we kept it in a metal trash can with a lid. I think that is where I saw it last. I have a question for those who do lead work. I really have a few but I will start with one. What do you do with the scapes of lead left from projects. The little nibs as I call them? Our studio puts them in a recycle can and sells them to the metal man. Although the going price of lead is about nothing these days. We don't do it for the pennies. my best, pj (who now has shut off the radio since than man on it told her there were only twelve shopping days till Christmas. ) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 14:31:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:30:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:20:45 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.92045.0> References: <<199712122105.QAA18229@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > > What do you do with the scapes of lead left from projects. The little > nibs > as I call them? > Do you know anyone that is an avid fisherperson? That might make their own sinkers? It's common (at least on the right coast, where most fish in salt water, and need sinkers), for people to melt lead and cast sinkers. Many get lost, and buying them adds up. The ones I know scrounge lead where ever they can. (keep them away from your fresh stock though, their eyes wil llight up.) -- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?'"Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 14:45:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:44:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:44:12 -0800 Message-ID: <199712122244.OAA17914@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> Hmm, I understand about the opalescent glass and the Tiffany influence. >> Kenny talked about this a bit also. >> I don't know what You mean about "the plating"... Can You explain this >> to me? I'm still a major newbie at this, but learning quickly. (-: >plating: is when you stack the glass in layers. the komono was plated, >the back is one color, the front another. it helps give it a larger >color range. unfortunally it also makes it alot harder to fix. > >---Mike Savad Ah, thank You! I get a little smarter daily! (-: We're fortunate that only one "plated" area is broken (in the water), and none of the handpainted stuff. That would be sad... Peace, Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 14:45:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:44:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:44:16 -0800 Message-ID: <199712122244.OAA17929@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >i took a second look at it, i wonder if it was made my John LaFarge, >the border with the little flowers in it kind of reminds me of him. and >i think he's done other japanese themes. i have a picture of a fish >panel he made, and the flowers on your tree, and his brach look >identical. I don't know who John LaFarge is/was... I'll have to look thru some of Kennys books to see if I find any of His work. >i wonder if yougehgheny (sp?) has the right color for the tree. the sky >i'm not sure, do to jpeg loss, it's difficult to say what the color may >be. though some of the glass looks like uroboros (the mountains), maybe >they used the same manufacturer. > >---Mike Savad Yes, I believe Kenny called the stuff in the mountains uroboros. One of those pieces is broken and Kenny dug thru his glass and found a *perfect* match for it. (and big enough too!) It's from an old window He parted out years ago. I think (hope) we just found the piece for the tree branch.. Yes, it's coming from Yougegheny. I have a sheet coming that should be here next thursday. The folks at Santa Rosa Stained Glass & Supply in Santa Rosa, Ca, have been VERY helpful and persistant with my glass search. Now if they can just find me the blue/white... Peace, Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 14:45:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:44:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:44:29 -0800 Message-ID: <199712122244.OAA17985@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 06:35 AM 12/12/97 +0000, you wrote: > >> It's our intention to restore the piece as close to origional as possible, >> but with some extensive iron work to make sure it lasts for many more >> generations to enjoy. > >Merely adding extensive support bars isn't necessarily the answer, >nor are "fins," which for some reason not grounded in historical fact >are a popular "solution" these days. A sensitive examination of the >window's points of failure should reveal whether more than what the >original artist/studio provided is really necessary. The steel work that's on it now was added after the fact and is quite inadequate. It leaves large delicate areas unsupported and is ugly and distracting. It was somebodys "band-aid" fix long ago... Kenny and I have discussed our support strategy quite a bit, and I have a rubbing of the window hanging on the wall with the areas that need support highlighted. I will bend a bunch of 1/8"x3/8" and 1/8x1/4" steel to follow lead lines in the necessary places. All the joints and intersections in the steel work will be welded. It's my intention to build a good solid support structure that isn't too conspicuous... No unsupported steel ends, no fins. It's going to be quite a bit of work bending the steel to follow the lead, but I've got LOTS of experiance with steel fabrication and have all the necessary tools in my garage. (-: Does this sound like a good strategy? I'm open to suggestions about how to do this. I've got what I hope is a good plan, but it's not too late to change it yet... Peace, Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 16:38:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:36:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:33:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199712130035.AAA23314@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by Charles Warner: >Do professionals on this list use coolant?< Nope. Just fresh clean water changed often. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA I agree; I only use water too. (Yep, I do actually have a GRINDER!!!!; don't use it that often though....) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 16:38:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:36:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re : Toby - was tradition of cutting? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:33:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199712130036.AAA23357@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All, The "famous" Braybark Toby Tobias is a 7 stone Old English Sheepdog, who is "skittish", bright, protective, a bundle of fun and stubborn as a mule. Toby is also a very keen gardener (especially when it comes to digging...). In winter he insists on carrying the torch for us to light our route (small village, no street-lights). And - as you know - he is an excellent typist..... ;-) He keeps me on the straight and narrow. He has his own spot on my WEB-page, and is very happy to greet anyone who cares to visit him. He was "wheeled on" as my "cover" by my computer guru (a perfect English gentleman) as he felt I needed some protection against the wild, wicked world of the Cyberspace. The story about Toby and his predecessors was committed to an earlier e-mail, whis is not yet sent. I was considering "scrubbing it" altogether. However, in view of the interest that Toby has caused, I think I will - after all. Hope this will not offend anyone... At 10:59 11/12/97 -0700, Charles wrote: >just a little nit: toby is elisabeth's dog. toby is a he, elisabeth is a she. Sam & I had decided that Toby must be Elisabeth's cat - close guess, eh. Must be because of input from Lucifer (our Siamese) Elizabeth & Sam Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk Elisabeth 'n the inimitable Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 16:38:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:36:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Who is Toby??? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:33:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199712130035.AAA23306@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hmmmm, My cat never did and my 3 generations of Old. English Sheep Dog find my glass grinding a mere irritant. I let the fine dust glass powder from my grinder dry out completely, scoop it up into plastic waste bags and allow the municipal disposal experts dispose of it the way they seem fit. No I don't flush it down the loo, nor do I dilute it through the kitchen sink..... I am too worried about possible plumbing repairs and frozen pipes in winter to even consider it. However, contrary to popular legends, glass powder is not an alternative to arsenic in the sugar-bowl to kill off your rich great-aunt. Glass powder does actually "flush through" your digestive system reasonably well and may even have some cleansing effects. (tongue in cheek!!) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK P.S. .... and yes, by the way for the "newbies" out there who don't know me very well: TOBY is my 3rd Generation Old English Sheepdog. He is the focus of this household and my business He was dreamt up by my computer guru who - like the true English Gentleman that he is - felt that my "gender'' needed protecting. (Elisabeth is a ''she''). "It's a wild and vicsious world out there in Cyberspace", he said So Braybark Toby Tobias was wheeled on as my "front". It made Kris happy and I didn't really mind. In any case, Old English Sheepdogs (Or Bobtails) have featured quite largely in my life as regards security and safety and my own freedom of movement.. However, Toby Tobias is a very accommodating chap and a loveable rogue. He is also very protective. I have told this story to you before, but for the "newbies" I will give a short-hand version again in how it came about. In the late 70's I was very badly mugged in London ; I almost lost my entire eye-sight.I spent more than 2 years in and out of a specialist eye-hospital in London, consultants, surgeons picking one piece of glass out of my eyes after another, while I was screaming in pain. I spent weeks and months screaming and wriggling in hospital beds in pure physical agony and pain. Night angels in the form of nurses were always there, wiping, washing and cleaning my eyes, trying to to soothe them and me. The use of anasthetics for the eye surgery that I had to endure, was not an option in those days. This was before laser technology. Miraculously the Gods and Angels managed to save my eye-sight. The name of Moorfields Eye Hospital will forever remain a sacred concept to me..... Painful? ... oh yes. Physically and emotionally. I am a stubborn bitch. Although I was totally traumatized, I was bloody-minded enough to determine that I would not have my life-style cramped, limited or restricted . If I couldn't move around freely on my own in London, then I would get a BIG, BIG dog........ Enter Trooper and Victoria., Braybark born and bred, 16 stone worth of dogs. They were fun, they were clowns, they were total protection, they went with me everywhere, they travelled to work with me, they slept in my office, my customers met them, my MD paid for a dog/house-sitter on the many business trips abroad I had to make for him & the business. I travelled all over UK, they were my constant companions. They both died in my arms of old age and are now buried in my garden. A Victoria plum tree growing and giving annual rich harvests over Braybark Blackeyed Susie Victoria and an Oak-Tree over Braybark Bold Baron Trooper. Never once did they ever let me down. They gave me mobility, safety, security and freedom of movement. They gave me fun, laughter and cheekiness too. Victoria stole many a juicy steak from the village kitchens, which I had to sort of explain away.,.....Trooper was a true giant with a giant's heart. He was quite magnificent. Both Trooper and Victoria did a lot of charity work and the stature and presence of Trooper was really quite something. Both of them collected much press coverage and charity certificates in their very rich lives. Young Braybark Toby Tobias is their great-nephew. He is skittish, serious and protective - all in one. He is a total clown too. He is very protective also and I am left in no doubt about that I am the centre of his universe. Some responsibillity!! It is only fitting then that Toby should be picked as my "front" when Kris - my computer guru - got me up and going on the INTERNET. Toby also has his own dedicated fan-club and his own "file" To me, he is a celebration of the gift of SIGHT and independence. The gift of sight somewhat important - if you are involved in stained glass..... He also reminds me that it would be quite nice to have some food on the table, reaonably regularly.... He also keeps my nose very close to Mother Earth. On my WEB-page Toby sits in the midst of blue-bells in spring. He is happy to say Hello to you. He is very protective, but he is very friendly too. He also provides me with a kind of back-to-basics insight of what I do and what I am all about. So my stained glass is quite frequently about observations of nature. Since it feeds him and frequently feeds me, there must be something right in what I do ....... Passionate sometimes - realistic always Elisabeth and Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 16:38:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:36:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Soldering iron supplies (UK) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:33:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199712130035.AAA23318@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello Steve, I did share in an earlier post; it's made by Draper Tools, costs exactly UK.Sterl. 11.90 (incl. VAT) where my students bought them. Tip was a bit on the narrow side, but shop told them that there are other broader tips available. We are evaluating the iron now. It's not quite as heavy as a 75W and certainly much lighter than a Weller 100W iron, sits quite nicely in the hand. It has no thermostat/rheostat, but for that price one can easily afford to get two (or a more "advanced" & expensive one at a later stage). What will interest me is how hot the handle gets after use of e.g. 2-3 hours constant usage.... As I said before, an ideal student's tool for the uncertain learner who hasn't got money to throw around. It certainly beats UK Sterl.81 that Tempsford charges for their irons (incl. VAT) to the unsuspecting learner. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > I have now located a well-known & reputable UK manufacturer of >a 100 W iron which retails at UK Sterl. 12. For a beginner, this is >achievable and s/he has money left over to afford other tools. Steve asked; Could you share this with us all please? ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 16:38:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:36:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: tradition of cutting? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:33:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199712130035.AAA23311@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Glen, I like your discussion approach and analytical process. I also don't in the least mind being challenged.... ;-) In a way I just hope we are not embarking into a more abstract discussion subject and method that might bore the pants off some people.... My "unease" is not about HOW something is made, but with the more subtle point about the definition about methods of how something is made; i.e. is it hand-made or is it machine-made. As I said in my original posting, I have no problem buying something honestly described as machine-made, as long as it is defined as such. Hence I have no problems with tools either (so I am not really back-pedalling). I also mentioned Art/Craft forms that are traditionally understood to be hand made. It's not a question about being "romantic", but a quite down-to-earth decision about what you are about and then how you feel about it. I know perfectly well that this is ALSO sailing very close to the wind of defining percentages of what constitutes hand-made versus machine made. In UK we have something called "Trades Description Law". I dare say you have something very similar in USA I really don't want to discuss that for myself, what is more important to me is my own honesty and ethics, which is particularly pertinent when I am trying to pass something on to a new generation in my capacity as a teacher. Let's take Len's analogy of cooking again. If I want a quick fix for the rumblings of my stomach I might be quite happy to roll into a restaurant where all the meals are presentable and tasty and served piping hot - yet conveyor-belt produced and re-heated in a micro-wave oven before arriving at my table. I buy that, knowing exactly what I am buying and paying for . That's fine and I am quite happy to take that onboard (and pay for it) But if I want something special, if I have researched the restaurant scene and made a conscious decision to spend my money on buying a meal specially prepared and hand-made by a particular Chef who selects the ingredients himself, combines them, cuts them, blends them, works them, cooks them, savours his own ingredients, using all the elements, techniques, methods he himself has advertised, and through which he sells himself by and which captured me , and the rest of it and then is prepared to come and serve it to me, talk to me about it, I would feel very special, very honoured and would expect to pay for it. If - AFTER I had paid for it- I THEN discovered that well - actually - it was yet another thing mass produced and bunged into a micro-wave oven - I would feel immensely cheated and angered. My meal would perhaps have been alright, but it would have been cheapened and embittered by a claim that was not honest. I would never go back. I sought for and paid for something that I took to believe was something else. What I got may have been tasty, but it was not what I bought. Len's very lovely and graphic description absolutely sums it up. My one-liner response to Len may have sounded jocular and flippant. The fact of the matter is - he DID have me drooling. The way he so lovingly described preparing a meal and all the manual processes, made me realize that HIS meal would be one "to die for". Laborious yes, man-hour-consuming YES. But Oh Boy!!! What a meal!!!! ALL my own work are one-offs. Over about 10 years whoever commissions me for a small piece, a large piece a multitude of panels. they don't only buy the product of what I produce; they firmly believe they have also bought my hands and my soul. In part, that is actually true. I am called on NOT only to produce blood, sweat and tears and mangled hands; I frequently then am also put upon to put into writing why I did what I did. That really puts you into a position of honesty . ethics and soul-searching. Maybe CRAFTSMANSHIP in Europe has a slight different connotation to what it has in USA. Here, Craftsmanship is still very much rooted in history and the pride of it. That is how the reconstructions at Windsor Castle was so miraculously achieved; there were sufficient sense of history and pride in the old methods to make all of that possible........ This is where we in Europe and UK have a lot to learn from you folks in USA ....Canada, Australia. and.... and...) and - YOU- a lot to learn from us. YES, there are commercicial considerations, time and motion considerations, efficiency methods and all of that; there is also the considerations of what constitutes being true to your Art (and Craft) if you aim to practice and perpetuate a very old and historic branch of Art (or Craft). As the Windsor Castle restoration bore witness..... I was born in and amongst a super-modern society, filled with old and ancient traditions & Arts and Crafts. It was fed to me from the cradle. In Sweden, the hommage to the super-modern, simplicity, practicality, functionality and modern efficiency is very much part of my life. But so is all of that old ancient history and traditions on which it was based. Convoluted, intricate, but mainly quite honest and up-front. In modernistic terms; "what goes around, comes around". A careful, honest, ethical and balanced equilibrium "marriage" of old and new are the anguished choices of the real Artists and Craftsmen of Today. That is NOT Romance, but facts of Life and the facts of very difficult choices. Simple, basic methods, honest and ethical "marriage" with modern machinery and techniques are ones that will stand the test of time. That are the lessons of Swedish simplicity. Don't be fooled by fad gizmos; use them, experiment with them - by all means. That's good. One or two of them will stand that crucial test of time (electric / gas soldering irons have...). Most of them won't. Something of my protective instincts possibly and probaly spills over into Bungi-Group in what I preach to my own students; Don't waste your money in something that is more of a status-symbol rather than the TOOL that you will pick up any time,. any day and at any occasion to use by choice. because it feels right for YOU. Turbo-engine, sing-and-dance, water-filled, coolant-aided, tea-making, meal-making , water-jet aided electric glass-saws for conveyor-belt production cuts for something that is supposed to be "hand-made" somehow just doesn't quiite "sit" right..... Sorry, I am still not convinced.... Try again.. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK P.S. "Artists or Craftsmen" - oh boy - we had a stab at this about a year ago. That's another different "can of worms". I posed that question to 2 of my classes last week. The reponse was very confused........ Let's have it from you out there!!!! Well, I followed the thread of the tool issue as initiated with the use =of the grinder. Interesting to watch it bounce around. Toby wrote "The stained glass artist / craftsman relies on his ability and =dexterity in how to use his hands, his body, his balance to understand, =tame and cut glass with his hands. His versatility, craftsmanship, =interpretation rests in what he can do with his bare hands with this =mysterious, frozen temperamental liquid; how to tame it, train it, =master it . .....Almost like befriending, taming a wild animal, a =temperamental wild horse ... even. You don't do THAT with =machinery....An electric glass cutter and an electric grinder is no =SUBSTITUTE. It can never be." Very romantic approach almost passionate. I like romantic and = passionate. But the last phrase " An electric glass cutter and an = electric grinder is no SUBSTITUTE. It can never be." Well looking at = how cooking has evolved, I don't use the open fire anymore, gave up the = wood cook stove some 5 yrs ago (and it did produce some lovely bread). = What I'm trying to say is that to learn to cook well I don't feel that = it is necessary to know how to use a fire, or wood cook stove (which I = still can enjoy for aesthetic reasons), I live in the present and use = electric or gas. I do enjoy cutting glass the traditional way and the = less I use the grinder the better (mainly because excessive grinding is = not cost effective time wise as good glass cutting) ditto the saw (just = too slow to justify the cost). BUT give me a machine that is cost/time = efficient and does a better job (as long as I can control the quality) = and I will use it. Find me a shop sized inexpensive pressurized abrasive = water jet cutter and I will get it and use it (they exist, just not = available to the starving artist). To me the real issue is control of = quality and does it give me the result that I want.=20 Mike Simpson wrote "If I could offer my own - purely subjective - opinion on what a real = craftsman does and does not do. No real craftsman will adopt new tools = or techniques if they bring about a loss of control or quality, no = matter how trivial, in any aspect of their craft. Conversely, if there = is no loss whatsoever, most craftsmen will adopt new tools and = techniques very readily..." =09 Carol wrote "All crafts, and the arts associated with them, evolve due to changes in = available materials, resources, techniques and technologies (as well as = social conditions, philosophies, styles, etc.) If you want to insist = that nothing can be considered to be 'real' unless it's done the = traditional way, you shut out far too many possibilities for artistic = advancement." Carol and Mike seemed like I to want to emphasis the method is not as = important as the quality of the work. Toby then clarified his stand (and = dare I say backpedaled a little) when he added "I don't reject tools; what I was saying was, that they are no = substitute for genuine hard-learnt skills. One can get obsessive about = "gizmos". They are only tools, but not a substitute to skills. Learn = the skills FIRST, says I, and then you will be able to be much more = discerning of what tools you really require." There is an arguable point Toby as to the definition of "genuine = hard-learnt skills", seems you still want, even if a better all around = tool exists, to cook on the fire. One day using a glass cutter may be = just as archaic (tho admittedly not yet) and when that day comes I for = one will not be using a cutter and will not feel sorry for it, life is = change. So there is my contribution, my soap stand, my two cents (two pence). = And I am going to throw the gauntlet out on another issue, artist vs = artisan vs craftsman vs hobbyist.=20 Glenn Spicer The Studio Metamorphoses BC Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 16:39:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:36:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Lead Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:33:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199712130035.AAA23283@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Meg, Welcome to the world of working with lead! First of all, remember that when you design and draw for lead, allow for the drawn lead-lines to be 2 mm thick on your drawing and cut your glass to fit INSIDE these lines. The 2 mm represents the space that the "heart" of the lead requires for the assembly. Yes, all lead need to be stretched ONCE before use. Once you have stretched it, treat and handle it like the most delicate of delicate babies. Don't sit on it, tread on it, bruise it or damage it, chew it (ha-ha) or twist it. For ease of use, coil it up like a flat pan-cake (or like like a rope on a ship's deck). That way you can feed it into your work and cut it without it twisting into cork-screw spirals. WHY do we stretch it? It's done to anneal it and smooth out all the dents, kinks and bruises, making it easier to feed the glass into the centre of the channel . As I jokingly tell my students, another bi-product of stretching the lead is that you get an extra inch or so of lead. But don't stretch too much, you run the risk of deforming the measurements of the lead then. If you are only just starting with lead, choose 1/4 inch round face-width. It's the more forgiving and patient of the lead widths available and the one I start my students off with. As you get more proficient in using lead, use a variety of widths within the same design to add to the depth and design interest of the panel. Use your lead-lines as part of your design process, rather than a way of dividing up an akward piece of glass to cut. Make each lead-line have a positive meaning, being a "design-element", rather than a "rescue-line". Talking about design, don't forget that designing for lead is different than designing for copper-foil. You can wrap copper-foil round very sharp curves and bends - you can't do that with lead. That is the challenge of lead. Another design point with lead, try and avoid more than 4 leads joining together at one point, or you will end up with one great big clumsy lump of solder. I have used this analogy before and I will repeat it again; I compare working with lead as writing a Shakespearean sonnet; it's full of limitations, scanning, restrictions and rules - yet the perfect sonnet is the one where it is so fluid that on the one hand -all these restrictions, limitations and rules are totally adhered to, yet on the other hand, totally unnoticed and undetectable. It just flows. Another thing important with lead is how you cut it and what tool you use . Lead needs to be cut very gently, or it will twist and bruise and not fit properly. I recomment to my students a wafer thin and short plaster-chisel (no more than about 1.5 inches long), the blade being no more than about 1 mm thick at the bottom - before the edge. That chisel I want to see them sharpen up to razor-edge sharpness. It should be a tool , the handle of which should rest freely in the ball of your palm, which you initially gently roll across the face of the lead, until the razor edge has penetrated through to the heart, when a slightly greater pressure can be excerted. The grab-and-chop-tools are NOT ones I would recommend (and that includes Stanley-knives [ Exacto-knives in USA??]), although they are the ones more frequently available at stained glass retailers. The blade of these lead-cutters are too thick and in my mind not really suitable for cutting lead accurately. A plaster-chisel - however - is readily available at any DIY store for a fraction of the price. However gently and carefully you cut the lead, it will always "fold" slightly. Always check the ends and straighten them up before you slot the lead into your assembly. Finally, soldering; When soldering solder onto copper-foil, you always rest in the fact that the copper-foil doesn't melt. Lead does! With copper-foil you know you can go over a soldering catastrophy again and again until you get it right. With lead you cannot. You might get perhaps 2-3 shots at it - after which it's just one great big unholy mess. Ultimate final point; copper-foil projects you can "tack-solder", pick them up, turn them around, watch them and correct and adjust them both sides virtually simultaneously.; with lead you work half-blind. You have no idea about how your colours REALLY work until it's all too late, you have no idea if your lead fits properly at "the back", you have no idea if that ONE rogue piece of glass decided to slice across the lead and stick its ugly sharp side out the other end, where you can't see it until you have already completed the entire soldering on one side. With lead you need to slow down, be meticulous, patient and really very "pernickety" as regards to details and processes. Depending on the complexity and variety of colours for a leaded panel, there are so many aspects (especially colour choices) that you have to carry in your "mind's eye" for a long time, regardless of if you use the method of sticking the glass on a transparent type of glass/plastic easel. You really just don't know until it is actually leaded and you are able to pick it up with your own hands, lead and all, against the light. For me, that has always been the absolute "feast" on a project I may have been working on for many months and on few occasions perhaps even a year- "The Picking Up to The Light Ceremony", I call it. Once or twice the triumphs have been quite emotional. Meg, have my observations and comments been helpful?? By the way folks, the 2 panels I was commissioned to do earlier on this year for a United Reformed Church in Hertfordshire are now in place. They are internal panels. placed on either side of a very dominant wooden Cross above the altar. The widow (a young girl of merely 86 ) commissioned me in commemoration of her husband who died a year ago and was quite a character in Hertfordshire (UK) and certainly a very charismatic Shepherd in his Church for almost 45 years. The Church Elders followed my advice about back-lighting, but I still have to see it for myself. The panels are mounted in pale oak cabinets, specially made for them (the carpenter managed to add 2 cracks to the glass which I had to repair as emergencies and under cover of darkness in order not to give the old girl yet another heart-attack!!), with hinges in order to gain easy access to the light tubes behind, should they need replacing. Yesterday I had a long telephone conversation with "the old girl", requesting me to attend the Dedication Service on 4th January. Would I also (she asked) write a little piece about how/what/why I myself personally interpreted my commission, to be read out at the Service of Dedication. Best Bib and Tucker folks; the heathen Elisabeth is going to Church!!! (Watch out for the Viking horns...) Wish me Luck!! Susan is coming with me for moral support!! Elisabeth 'n Toby (Toby WHO??!!) in UK Meg wrote: Dear bungians, I have decided that it was time I found out how to use lead came.... (have always done copper foil). I have some lead came which came with the original stuff I bought (someone sold me their hobby shop). I was wondering if it was still okay to use, it was rolled up, but the H look pretty much all right, and it is pretty shiny and new looking... Also I have read that you need to stretch it before use. Included was a came stretcher, so that shouldn't be a problem, but the question is.... once stretched does it stay stretched, or do you need to stretch only what you need, or can you store it and use it later, or restretchit??? Besides getting it nice and straight, what else does stretching do if anything? Any other pitfalls I might unknowingly fall into all by myself??? I have read the chapters on this in both the books I have, and the old bungi posts which I have kept.... but sometimes they don't tell the whole story.... like the tip I just learned re: rubbing two pieces of glass together to knock off edges.... obvious once someone points it out! thanks to the people who did!!! Life wouldn't be so interesting if there were no new things to learn! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 16:46:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:45:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!SGibson7 From: SGibson7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: remove from list Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 19:43:44 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec13.04344.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk please remove my name from list ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 17:46:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:46:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Lead Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 20:47:33 -0500 Message-ID: <199712130145.UAA12770@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Subject: Re: Lead Sent: 12/12/97 8:43 PM To: glass@bungi.com Elisabeth wrote (with enthusiastic barks & snuffles from Toby): (snip snip snip, not lead but words) > You really just don't know until it is actually >leaded and you are able to pick it up with your own hands, lead and >all, against the light. For me, that has always been the absolute >"feast" on a project I may have been working on for many months and >on few occasions perhaps even a year- "The Picking Up to The Light >Ceremony", I call it. Once or twice the triumphs have been quite >emotional. I didn't know it had a name (s) but that's when I totally fell head over heels in love with glass. It was September 1987; it was a daffodil panel, badly soldered; I brought it home from class, held it up to the light; and had an epiphany all by myself in my kitchen. Elisabeth, again: >By the way folks, the 2 panels I was commissioned >to do earlier on this year for a United Reformed Church in >Hertfordshire are now in place. They are internal panels. placed on >either side of a very dominant wooden Cross above the altar. The >widow (a young girl of merely 86 ) commissioned me in commemoration >of her husband who died a year ago and was quite a character in >Hertfordshire (UK) and certainly a very charismatic Shepherd in his >Church for almost 45 years. The Church Elders followed my advice >about back-lighting, but I still have to see it for myself. The >panels are mounted in pale oak cabinets, specially made for them (the >carpenter managed to add 2 cracks to the glass which I had to repair >as emergencies and under cover of darkness in order not to give the >old girl yet another heart-attack!!), with hinges in order to gain >easy access to the light tubes behind, should they need replacing. >Yesterday I had a long telephone conversation with "the old girl", >requesting me to attend the Dedication Service on 4th January. Would >I also (she asked) write a little piece about how/what/why I myself >personally interpreted my commission, to be read out at the Service >of Dedication. >Best Bib and Tucker folks; the heathen Elisabeth is going to >Church!!! (Watch out for the Viking horns...) >Wish me Luck!! Susan is coming with me for moral support!! >Elisabeth 'n Toby (Toby WHO??!!) in UK Suzanne writes: Best of Luck, Elisabeth - will you share with us your writings, and will you be putting a picture of this up on your website? We'll all be with you in spirit on Jan. 4th... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 12 21:57:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:56:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:40:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec12.19404.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi pj- We melt-down some of our scrap lead for weights (I can't off the top of my head think of WHY we needed weights... probably some of our crazy projects in theater), some goes to the scrap man down the street, but the question you just ask is = exactly why Michael covets a lead mill - so he can melt down and extrude his own "special" leads. Old profiles that you can't buy off the shelf, etc. I personally think it sounds like a lot of hard work... but, who am I to = criticize the Meister!!! Best regards, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 01:29:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:28:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Soldering iron supplies (UK) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:24:01 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.9241.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 01:33 13/12/97 +0000, EliSabeth 'n Toby wrote: >it's made by Draper Tools, costs exactly UK.Sterl. 11.90 (incl. VAT) >where my students bought them. We have a catalogue from Drapers, and if it is the K100P model the price quoted is UK sterling 14.68 plus VAT (total UK sterling 17.25) Was it recently that your lot bought them ? If not it must be they've found a shop with very old stock. Can you let us know the source to order some for our students. >Tip was a bit on the narrow side, Would a Weller tip either for the 75w or 100w iron fit? >It certainly beats UK Sterl.81 that Tempsford charges for their irons >(incl. VAT) to the unsuspecting learner. We sell the 100w tc iron for Uk sterling 75 inc VAT by the way. Elizabeth & Sam Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 02:07:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:06:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:13:43 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >i took a second look at it, i wonder if it was made my John LaFarge Nope, Julie Sloan's an authority on the work of John La Farge and would have recognized it instantly. > I don't know who John LaFarge is/was... Info about La Farge is at http://www.jlsloan.com/lafarge.htm > Yes, I believe Kenny called the stuff in the mountains uroboros It might be *like Uroboros, but Uroboros was founded nearly 100 years after La Farge was working. Actually, La Farge had all of his glass made ... he invented opalescent stained glass; Louis Comfort Tiffany merely marketed it best. Just so you know. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 02:08:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:06:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:13:43 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > It's my intention to build a good solid support structure that isn't > too conspicuous... No unsupported steel ends, no fins. It isn't really necessary to follow the lead lines ... that's not the usual practice. Yes, the support structure will show, but one tends to ignore that when viewing the panel. The "unsupported" ends are, I guess you're saying, the ends that extend beyond the edge of the panel itself, right? They're supposed to do that. The ends of the support bars must be inserted into the frame of the window, otherwise, the panel is supporting the bars, rather than the weight of the window being transferred at several points to the support bars and then to the frame of the window itself. That's important. Sounds like you need Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in America." It's available at http://www.aiap.com/ Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 03:47:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:46:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:45:00 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec13.11450.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk This past spring I visited the National Cathedral in D.C. and enjoyed the beautiful work and artistry of the windows. Next time I will bring my binoculars---that is how massive the building is! Dani, in response to your comment about the commission...... from what the tour guide said, it was a minimal to nothing, as the artists who worked on the project volunteered their services, pro bono. Could have misunderstood, but feel certain that was stated as it made an impact on me for sure. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 04:40:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 04:40:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Soldering iron supplies (UK) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:38:00 +0000 Message-ID: <199712131239.MAA19794@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 01:33 13/12/97 +0000, EliSabeth 'n Toby wrote: >it's made by Draper Tools, costs exactly UK.Sterl. 11.90 (incl. VAT) >where my students bought them. We have a catalogue from Drapers, and if it is the K100P model the price quoted is UK sterling 14.68 plus VAT (total UK sterling 17.25) Was it recently that your lot bought them ? If not it must be they've found a shop with very old stock. Can you let us know the source to order some for our students. >Tip was a bit on the narrow side, Would a Weller tip either for the 75w or 100w iron fit? >It certainly beats UK Sterl.81 that Tempsford charges for their irons >(incl. VAT) to the unsuspecting learner. We sell the 100w tc iron for Uk sterling 75 inc VAT by the way. It was less than 3 weeks ago that several of my students got them. I was so incredulous that one of them showed me his receipt. Even so, it could have been that that stock was old stock,. More students have ordered. Let's see what they have to pay when they get theirs. Even if it is a fiver more, it's still good value for money. As regards the tip, I will check it out and let you know. The same retailer also stocks and sells Weller 75w irons and is even apologetic about the higher price (Around the UKSterl 20 for the 75W). The retailer's address and details will be on the list I am preparing to send you (all in UK). I need to take a bit of time out to visit some of these local retailers to explain to them what is going on & to ensure that they are prepared for a rush on them about 3-4 times a year. At the same time I also want to check out what accessories they stock & sell, e.g. tip cleaners, stands, sponges . The shops I am exploring are traditional tool shops. Not being a retailer myself, there is no way I can finance a bulk purchase of 200 - 300 soldering irons a year to sell off little by little to my students ; I need every penny for glass and lead. However, the business of my students is serious money for any retailer , especially if I sent them there. The high-handed attitude of Tempsford is therefore unacceptable and short-sighted to say the least. ....And, of course, soldering irons are not the ONLY tool needed. Will get back to you. Best Wishes Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 04:46:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 04:45:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: lead scraps (was: coolant for grinder) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:13:40 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.121340.0> References: <<199712122105.QAA18229@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <199712122105.QAA18229@water.waterw.com>, pj friend writes >Dani wrote, >I have a question for those who do lead work. >I really have a few but I will start with one. > >What do you do with the scapes of lead left from projects. The little nibs >as I call them? > >Our studio puts them in a recycle can and sells them to the metal man. >Although the going price of lead is about nothing these days. We don't do it >for the pennies. I also sell the scrap lead to scrap metal merchants. But I also melt the lead and use it in various ways: a) bases for otherwise easily "tipable" vases b) handle ends for my stopping and lead knives (not too much or they are too heavy to work with) this makes them really handy for tapping in the horseshoe nails. c)bases for book ends d) cast in thin sheets for use in lamps So, all in all, I don't have much for the scrap metal merchants at the end of the year. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 05:45:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:45:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:45:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712131345.IAA22426@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert wrote, > >It might be *like Uroboros, but Uroboros was founded nearly 100 years >after La Farge was working. Actually, La Farge had all of his glass >made ... he invented opalescent stained glass; Louis Comfort Tiffany >merely marketed it best. > >Just so you know. And as the story goes.................bankrolled the whole magillia. Now won't we all like to have a friend like Louis today? my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 05:50:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:50:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:50:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712131350.IAA22562@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert wrote, >Sounds like you need Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in >America." It's available at http://www.aiap.com/ > I can only say from professional experience than anyone considering restoration work should add this to their reference material. A wealth of knowledge from a very wise sorce. And I must add all in one place. Just recently picked it up again just to reread it.. And you can even go to the index and just pick out topics you like. Kind of like the computer manuels we don't read either. But this one is well worth reading cover to cover. A great Christmas gift for your favorite glass artist. my best, pj (who wishes books were given to more people as gifts) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 06:03:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:03:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:03:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712131403.JAA22942@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lenore wrote, >This past spring I visited the National Cathedral in D.C. and enjoyed the >beautiful work and artistry of the windows. Next time I will bring my >binoculars---that is how massive the building is! Remarkable work in the Cathedral. > >Dani, in response to your comment about the commission...... from what the >tour guide said, it was a minimal to nothing, as the artists who worked on the >project volunteered their services, pro bono. Could have misunderstood, but >feel certain that was stated as it made an impact on me for sure. Ah... Dani did you hear this one??? The artist volunteered their services? I am impressed. If Mr. LeCompte donated the rose window in the cathedral I am truly humbled. I also understand that the LeCompte family is quite seated in the Church community. So maybe this is a reflection of that. I do believe if they had a space for us to create I would gladly work pro bono. You could never pay for the amount of exposure it would give you. We have done numerous restorations in the community as donations.....just to give back to the people that support us. Just good karma. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 06:40:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:40:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:56:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712131356.IAA22732@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Danie wrote, > >We melt-down some of our scrap >lead for weights (I can't off the top >of my head think of WHY we needed >weights... probably some of our >crazy projects in theater), some >goes to the scrap man down the street, >but the question you just ask is = Well with our scrapes I could sculpt a monument. I am talking some serious metal here. The last container I could not lift. But you got my brain to thinking..........well I felt a twinge up there anyway. > >exactly why Michael covets a lead >mill - so he can melt down and extrude >his own "special" leads. Old profiles >that you can't buy off the shelf, etc. >I personally think it sounds like a lot >of hard work... but, who am I to = And if you find the lead mill could you order two???? > >criticize the Meister!!! And all along I thought it was only me. We're off today to meet with another committee. Hope Mr. LeCompte isn't in the neighborhood. If he does work pro bono then we're all in trouble. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 06:41:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:40:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:48:40 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > The artist volunteered their services? This is America and the government of our United States pays $700 for hammers. You can *believe that the artists were paid ... and well ... not that it's any of our business, but one of the artists I know personally was paid ... and well paid. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 06:41:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 06:40:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:48:40 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) > And as the story goes.................bankrolled the whole magillia. > Now won't we all like to have a friend like Louis today? Well, his interest was pure self interest, of course ... and the studio went bust anyway. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 07:40:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 07:39:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CColdfeet From: C Coldfeet To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: New product for stepping stones..hurrah! Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:35:07 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec13.15357.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I have been anxiously awaiting this product. Will be very interested to hear from anyone that has used it. I tried, maybe two months ago, to get more info on this product but to no avail. Think it has great application for making stones to be used as tables, and you don't want the two toned side of the stone (where the grout and the cement meet, and you want the finished look of the grout for the top) Please keep us informed Thanks CColdfeet ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 08:13:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:12:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sonic.net!sdelanty From: sdelanty@sonic.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Geisha reinforcement/was hello, plea... Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:12:01 -0800 Message-ID: <199712131612.IAA17279@sub.sonic.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> It's my intention to build a good solid support structure that isn't >> too conspicuous... No unsupported steel ends, no fins. >It isn't really necessary to follow the lead lines ... that's not the >usual practice. Yes, the support structure will show, but one tends >to ignore that when viewing the panel. > >The "unsupported" ends are, I guess you're saying, the ends that >extend beyond the edge of the panel itself, right? They're supposed >to do that. The ends of the support bars must be inserted into the >frame of the window, otherwise, the panel is supporting the bars, >rather than the weight of the window being transferred at several >points to the support bars and then to the frame of the window >itself. That's important. The ends that go off the panel will be attached to the frame to support the weight. All 4 corners and a place along the middle of each side will be attached to the frame. If You go back to the web site: http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/geisha.htm I have put up a 4th picture wich is marked up to show my proposed steel lines. The lines done in orange I was going to do in 1/8x3/8" steel, and the lines in blue I would do in 1/8x1/4" steel. Do You think this is a bad scheme? How might You do it different? Kenny seemed to think this was a pretty good way to go, and I trust his judgement pretty well, but I'm looking for as many opinions and options as I can get... >Sounds like you need Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in >America." It's available at http://www.aiap.com/ I will try and get a copy soon. I just did a search thru our library computer system, but they don't have it. Rats. Kenny may already have it, He's done an awful lot of this stuff. I'll ask today when I go to work on the window... Thanks much, Steve Delanty ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 08:17:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:16:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: lead scraps Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:26:15 -0600 Message-ID: <199712131613.KAA20621@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I think we should all send our lead scrapes to Don McDonald, he can use it for ballast to slow down his self-elevation ;-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 09:36:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:35:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: lead scraps (was: coolant for grinder) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:32:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.7324.0> References: <<1997Dec13.121340.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > In message <199712122105.QAA18229@water.waterw.com>, pj friend > writes > >Dani wrote, > > >I have a question for those who do lead work. > >I really have a few but I will start with one. > > > >What do you do with the scapes of lead left from projects. The little nibs > >as I call them? > > > >Our studio puts them in a recycle can and sells them to the metal man. > >Although the going price of lead is about nothing these days. We don't do it > >for the pennies. > > I also sell the scrap lead to scrap metal merchants. But I also melt > the lead and use it in various ways: > a) bases for otherwise easily "tipable" vases > b) handle ends for my stopping and lead knives (not too much or they are > too heavy to work with) this makes them really handy for tapping in the > horseshoe nails. > c)bases for book ends > d) cast in thin sheets for use in lamps > > So, all in all, I don't have much for the scrap metal merchants at the > end of the year. > > Steve > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ][ and if you can make the molds, you can csst your own things. like butterfly bodies, and lead filigree. you would'nt even need to carve it, just buy an existing body and make the mold. though you would need casting sand... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 09:37:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:36:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Pebeo paints Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:32:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.7322.0> References: <<199712130035.AAA23283@pluto.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Does anyone know who (as in mail order like Delphi, W/C, or Glasscrafters) sells Pebeo paints? The only recent catalog I have is Delphi's and it's not in there. These are the paints that bake on in the oven. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 10:01:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:00:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB XX) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:56:50, -0500 Message-ID: <199712131756.MAA19974@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Steve writes: I will bend a bunch of 1/8"x3/8" and 1/8x1/4" steel to follow lead lines in the necessary places. All the joints and intersections in the steel work will be welded. It's my intention to build a good solid support structure that isn't too conspicuous... No unsupported steel ends, no fins. Bob moans, This window is large and 1/8" X 1/2" rebar is none to large for reinforcement. Bending up smaller stock may not provide the necessary reinforcement. I have not heard of the term fins but suspect if is a reference to the flat rebar that is commonaly used today. Older reinforcement is mostly round stock (1/2"+) that is wired to the SG panel. That would be my choice for this window. Soldering on rebar does not allow for expansion and contraction with the weather and leads to breaking of the solder joints. That may be why this window is in trouble now. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 11:03:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:02:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:02:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.9230.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk To pj (who wishes more books are = given to people as gifts)- I can only agree with you on the above sentiment as well as Sloan's book. Am also enjoying the book about Harry Clarke immensely and recommend it ! Thanks to the person who located it and posted the info here on bungi. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 11:09:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:09:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: lead scraps (was: coolant for grinder) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:02:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.9215.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk AND we weight the back of the company truck with buckets of lead for traction in the winter and STILL we have tons of = scrap lead. Okay, friends in = the UK, with pj we now have five people wanting a lead mill. If Mike Peck would jump on the bandwagon, maybe we could get a discount for a half dozen! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 11:10:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:10:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@BUNGI.COM" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Rowan LeCompte Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:02:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.9223.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You're right, pj, the National Cathedral would be pretty good exposure! I would suspect, though, if all that work was pro bono that = there was a pretty healthy materials budget extended the artist. It's not such a bad deal - we got a = lovely three grand for the World Arena donation we're doing and = just placed a yummy order for Lamberts glass with Bendheim. Mmmmm... can hardly wait for those crates to come in next week! (I'm praying they come in next week... this job has to be installed Jan. 12th - yikes!) Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 11:13:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:13:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:02:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.9237.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Albert- Just read your post re: the = Geisha window and coincidentally received Julie's book "Conservation of Stained Glass in America" late yesterday. Of course, we haven't gone over it with a fine-toothed comb yet, but I would agree at initial glance that anyone who fancies themself a restorer of stained glass must read this! And I might add that it's a pleasant read as well... quite intriguing. Will let you know after the holidays when we've had a chance to really = delve in. And thanks for sending it so quickly, too. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 11:46:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:46:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!bunzie From: "bunzie" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Remove Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:46:53 -0500 Message-ID: <199712131946.NAA10081@endeavor.flash.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Please remove me for the time being guys. Thanx. happy scoring! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 13:37:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:36:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: John LaFarge Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:33:26 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971213163326.00703a28@pop.netrox.net> References: <<199712122244.OAA17929@sub.sonic.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Steve wrote: > > I don't know who John LaFarge is/was... > There is a web picture of "Rebecca at the Well" in Grace Episcopal Church, Medford MA: http://www.lmh.edu/rebecca.htm "The Biltmore Angels" can be viewed at: http://www.rscnet.com/glass2u/store/prod9188.hmx?UID=32410-24982-24739&CID= "The Infant Bacchus": http://www.rscnet.com/glass2u/store/prod9920.hmx?UID=12502-24983-16534&CID= "Angel Stirring the Pool of Bethesda": http://www.iserv.net/~dorcasb/pics/bethesda.JPG "Christ Preaching": http://www.iserv.net/~dorcasb/pics/chpreach.JPG "Resurrection": http://www.iserv.net/~dorcasb/pics/resurrec.JPG And there should be a biographical sketch at http://nmaa-ryder.si.edu:70/0/files/Research_Center/Juley/j0001833.txt but the server seemed to be down when I tried it today. Hope this helps. Cheers, M.-J. *#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*# Only in growth, reform, and change, paradoxically enough, is true security to be found. --Anne Morrow Lindbergh *#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*#&=*# ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 13:49:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:48:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Tiffany Links Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:40:01 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971213164001.0074baec@pop.netrox.net> References: <<199712122244.OAA17929@sub.sonic.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk There are some links to some of Tiffany's work: http://www.iserv.net/~dorcasb/artnouv.htm#tiffany though some of the links were outdated, but there are still some lovely examples. The original dragonfly lamp, once owned by Andrew Carnegie, is there, among others. Cheers, M.-J. "We all have a lifelong habit of inferiority to our full self..." -- William James ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 14:10:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:09:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LHJAN From: LHJAN To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: remove me from mail list Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:08:29 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec13.22829.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Please remove me from mail list ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 16:05:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:05:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LByrne21 From: LByrne21 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Subscribe Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:03:14 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec14.0314.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Please re-instate me on the Bungi list........Lavergne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 17:04:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:04:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: New product for stepping stones..hurrah! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:06:53 +0000 Message-ID: <199712131932.NAA01266@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I have been anxiously awaiting this product. Will be very interested to hear > from anyone that has used it. I tried, maybe two months ago, to get more > info on this product but to no avail. Think it has great application for > making stones to be used as tables, and you don't want the two toned side of > the stone (where the grout and the cement meet, and you want the finished look > of the grout for the top) > > Please keep us informed > Thanks CColdfeet What Product? Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 17:15:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:15:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: lead scraps Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:18:00 +0000 Message-ID: <199712131943.NAA01280@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I think we should all send our lead scrapes to Don McDonald, he can use it > for ballast to slow down his self-elevation ;-) > > > Len > Nice personal charachter attack. Made me feel really good. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 17:21:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:20:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: lead scraps Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:23:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199712131948.NAA01289@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I think we should all send our lead scrapes to Don McDonald, he can use it > for ballast to slow down his self-elevation ;-) > > > Len > > ...who just looked through each and every one of his posts and sees that he's never mentioned, responded to, or even thought about lead scraps or lead scrapes... Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 17:31:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:31:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison From: ItsAlison To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Your Stained Glass Workshop Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 20:30:05 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec14.1305.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Was someone trying to get a copy of the book "Your Stained Glass Workshop" a while back here on Bungi ? The book includes designs and directions for building a home workshop. (author:GeneMayo) Just in case some of you are looking for it and have not been able to find it,the publisher/distributor's address is as follows: Stained Glass Images Inc. 135 Dolton Avenue SanCarlos, CA 94070 ISBN: 0-936459-34-4 Copyright 1996- Gene Mayo $8.95 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 21:03:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:02:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gr.cns.net!pristine From: mcFrenzy To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Fwd: Michigan Stained Glass Census] Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:03:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.19345.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Betty MacDowell wrote: > > Add the Michigan Stained Glass Census to your links: > > http://museum.cl.msu.edu/museum/msgc/index.htm > > The Michigan Stained Glass Census is a statewide inventory > of architectural stained glass sponsored by the Michigan > State University Museum. > > For more information, contact Betty MacDowell at above > e-mail address or at 517/627-8973. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 21:22:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:21:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: praxis.net!chicago From: "Carole Pearson" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: subscribe Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:20:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.19204.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all!! have been a lurker for a long time......just had a system crash and now have new mail server. Am going nuts without any 'bungi' mail. Lost all e-mail and home page addresses. Will look forward to my "glass fix" in new mail box! Carole Pearson Central Florida ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 21:48:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:47:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: praxis.net!chicago From: "Carole Pearson" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: red faced Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:46:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.194625.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenna, Sorry to trouble you but I just learned how to use my new mail program and I was surprised to find ALL the back mail from bungi!! I guess i just need to learn how to read the directions!! Please disregard the subscribe message I sent 12/13/97. Thank you Carole ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 13 22:18:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:17:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: praxis.net!chicago From: "Carole Pearson" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: red faced Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:46:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.194625.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenna, Sorry to trouble you but I just learned how to use my new mail program and I was surprised to find ALL the back mail from bungi!! I guess i just need to learn how to read the directions!! Please disregard the subscribe message I sent 12/13/97. Thank you Carole ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 06:28:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 06:26:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: Int'l, Guild, of, Glass, Artists Subject: New glass workshops Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:33:30 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk We just added more than 30 workshops, seminars, shows and exhibitions to the "Events" section of http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ Take a look and start planning your glass education for 1998! Oh, there are new products in the "What's New" section there, too. Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 07:17:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 07:15:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: lead scraps Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:15:29 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec14.151529.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I for one, and I doubt the only one, who is getting tired of all the negative comments being made on bungi in the last few weeks. I am certain that this is not the point of bungi. What is the purpose of personal attacks, insults, character assinations? If you don't agree with someone's techniques, thoughts, etc... then comment in a constructive manner and explain why. I believe that I can learn something from everyone. If you must be negative about someone please do it in private e-mail so the rest of us only have to read about glass issues. Just my opinion. LuAnn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 07:17:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 07:16:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: softcom.net!mthaxton From: "Melissa Thaxton" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: coolant for grinder Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:41:36 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec13.104136.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dito..... -----Original Message----- From: Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo To: INTERNET:glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 7:47 AM Subject: Re: coolant for grinder >Message text written by Charles Warner: >>Do professionals on this list use coolant?< > >Nope. Just fresh clean water changed often. >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 10:50:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:49:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grout Color Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:43:41 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971214134341.0071567c@pop.netrox.net> References: <<1997Dec11.6635.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks very much for your input! Cheers, M.-J. At 11:06 AM 12/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Message text written by M-J: >>I have a grout question. I know you can buy colored grouts, but I've als= >o >read about adding acrylic tints to the dry mix before adding water. Does >anyone have any experience with this? If so, would you please note any >brand names you can think of ... also, are they powdered or liquid? Any >other helpful hints. > >Until now, I've only used white grout ... and it's always sanded ... and >not very white. Is that because of the sand? It seems unsanded white grou= >t >is much whiter< > >Yes, I've colored the grout using acrylic tints. I've used the liquid >acrylics >and just added them in while mixing the grout with water. >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 15:28:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:26:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:03:52 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec14.23352.0> References: <<199712131756.MAA19974@mime4.prodigy.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <199712131756.MAA19974@mime4.prodigy.com>, BOB XX writes >Steve writes: > I will bend a bunch of 1/8"x3/8" and 1/8x1/4" > steel to follow lead lines in the necessary places. > All the joints and intersections in the steel work will be welded. > It's my intention to build a good solid support structure that >isn't > too conspicuous... No unsupported steel ends, no fins. > >Bob moans, >This window is large and 1/8" X 1/2" rebar is none to large for >reinforcement. Bending up smaller stock may not provide the necessary >reinforcement. I have not heard of the term >fins but suspect if is a reference to the flat rebar that is >commonaly used today. Older reinforcement is mostly round stock >(1/2"+) that is wired to the SG panel. That would be my choice for >this window. Soldering on rebar does not allow for expansion and >contraction with the weather and leads to breaking of the solder >joints. That may be why this window is in trouble now. >Bob > >__ Bob, Any thoughts on why tublar material isn't used as saddle bars? It is stronger (more resistant to bending) than the equivalent size of round bar and much lighter. Is the hollow part of the tube the problem? Steve -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 15:30:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:30:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 23:08:15 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec14.23815.0> References: <<199712131350.IAA22562@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <199712131350.IAA22562@water.waterw.com>, pj friend writes >Albert wrote, > >>Sounds like you need Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in >>America." It's available at http://www.aiap.com/ >> >I can only say from professional experience than anyone considering >restoration work should add this to their reference material. A wealth of >knowledge from a very >wise sorce. And I must add all in one place. Just recently picked it up >again just to reread it.. And you can even go to the index and just pick >out topics you like. >Kind of like the computer manuels we don't read either. But this one is >well worth reading cover to cover. > >A great Christmas gift for your favorite glass artist. > >my best, >pj (who wishes books were given to more people as gifts) > Also check out "Conservation of Glass" edited by Roy Newton and Sandra Davison, published by Butterworth Heideman, 1989, reprinted 1997. |ISBN 0-7506-2448-5 UK pounds 26.50. I covers much more than flat glass, but is worth a careful read. steve -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 15:31:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:31:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Question - Glass Window in Shower Date: Sun, 14 Dec 97 18:30:30 -0500 Message-ID: <199712142328.SAA23404@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Good Day All, A couple of years ago I installed a window right next to our shower. Over the course of time the window became water-stained. Now I have been asked to make an installation in someone else's shower, and I am reluctant to go ahead until I know the proper method. 1. Should it be enclosed behind a clear pane of glass? If so, and I leave some holes for air, wouldn't the water also get inside, causing more problems? 2. Do you know of any product that will remove the water stains from my original glass? These projects, by the way, are both copper-foiled. Thank you all for any advice you can give me! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 15:51:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:51:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Help with making frames ... please Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:50:37 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971214185037.006af5e0@pop.netrox.net> References: <<199712131756.MAA19974@mime4.prodigy.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Bungis ... I'm working on a mosaic mirror frame for my guest bathroom ... this one will be attached with tapcons, directly into the wall, and then the mirror attached ... but making this has gotten me interested in making some smaller versions to give as presents this holiday season. So, I need something to attach to the back so that the frame hung on the wall ... or better yet, a backing to make it possible to stand the frame on a table, as any picture frame. Does anyone have sources for such things ... and recommendations for particularly sturdy ones, since these are fairly heavy frames. An online source or an 800#???? Thanks so much! Cheers, M.-J. This world, after all our science and sciences, is still a miracle; wonderful, inscrutable, magical and more, to whosoever will think of it. -- Thomas Carlyle ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 16:02:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:01:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Question - Glass Window in Shower Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:58:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec14.135818.0> References: <<199712142328.SAA23404@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk suzanne albright wrote: > > Good Day All, > > A couple of years ago I installed a window right next to our shower. Over > the course of time the window became water-stained. > > Now I have been asked to make an installation in someone else's shower, > and I am reluctant to go ahead until I know the proper method. > > 1. Should it be enclosed behind a clear pane of glass? If so, and I leave > some holes for air, wouldn't the water also get inside, causing more > problems? > > 2. Do you know of any product that will remove the water stains from my > original glass? > > These projects, by the way, are both copper-foiled. > > Thank you all for any advice you can give me! > > Suzanne > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i can answer #2, you can use a product called CRL or maybe it's CLR (calcium rust and lime remover). you can try vinegar, but of course everything will smell like vinegar. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 17:33:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:32:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB XX) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:30:28, -0500 Message-ID: <199712150130.UAA17750@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Steve writes: Bob, Any thoughts on why tublar material isn't used as saddle bars? It is stronger (more resistant to bending) than the equivalent size of round bar and much lighter. Is the hollow part of the tube the problem? Steve Bob writes, I have never come across a tubular support bar. I suspect that this is because tube was not as commonly available years ago. Also, a solid round bar stock is stronger than a tube of the same diameter. A tube of the same strength would of necessity be larger in diameter and thus more sightly. A tube is stronger pound for pound than a bar but not stronger than a solid bar of the same diameter. Sometimes T- bar is used for reinforcement but I believe it shows more. Old style rebar was often (hope I can explain this) inserted into a round hole ( round holes are the easiest to make) on one side of the window casement frame (say two inches) and then backed out (say one inch) into a hole on the other side of the casement thus trapping the rebar. Heavy U shaped copper wire soldered in the center of the U to the came joints is brought around the bar and twisted secure. This is real simple of you can get ahold of a picture. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 17:50:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:49:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB XX) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Question - Glass Window in Shower Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:43:38, -0500 Message-ID: <199712150143.UAA19814@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Suzanne wrote: Good Day All, A couple of years ago I installed a window right next to our shower. Over the course of time the window became water-stained. Now I have been asked to make an installation in someone else's shower, and I am reluctant to go ahead until I know the proper method. 1. Should it be enclosed behind a clear pane of glass? If so, and I leave some holes for air, wouldn't the water also get inside, causing more problems? 2. Do you know of any product that will remove the water stains from my original glass? These projects, by the way, are both copper-foiled. Thank you all for any advice you can give me! Suzanne Bob writes, Mike gave you my best answer for cleaning stains which is CLR available at many places. I will not install a window in a shower without placing a piece of tempered glass on the INSIDE. This is for the protection of the people that would be clean from the hazards of broken glass and lead. Seal the tempered glass and the SG together and moisture should not be a problem. I believe the national (USA) building code calls for tempered glass in a shower. Other windows in a humid bathroom can benefit from tempered glass. Safe and not sorry, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 14 19:49:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 19:48:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ictc.com!bankers From: "The Banker's House" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Help with making frames ... please Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 21:50:30 -0600 Message-ID: <199712150354.VAA05034@ns.ictc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have made several picture frames... the stand-on-the-table type..... at first I made a hinged 'leg' just like a regular picture frame, out of glass... using box hinges to attach it to the frame, and chain to limit how far it pivoted out.... worked nice but was a lot of work. Then I bought some cardboard backs.... like the kind that are standard in simple frames purchased at the store.... nice and simple to use, but after a few weeks... the cardboard began to bend under the weight of the glass, and eventually I had to hot-glue a support to it.... very unattractive. So I then tried a simple stand out of glass, with a base attached to the bottom of the frame, and a support or two running up the back... all soldered in place. This works, and I have thought about making a standard base, that would accept most frames and be freestanding.... but haven't had time to work at it. This has been my experience with frames... I hope it is understandable, and I look forward to hearing what others have done. Dale ---------- > From: M.-J. Taylor > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Help with making frames ... please > Date: Sunday, December 14, 1997 5:50 PM > > Hi, Bungis ... > > > I'm working on a mosaic mirror frame for my guest bathroom ... this one will be attached with tapcons, directly into the wall, and then the mirror attached ... but making this has gotten me interested in making some smaller versions to give as presents this holiday season. > > > So, I need something to attach to the back so that the frame hung on the wall ... or better yet, a backing to make it possible to stand the frame on a table, as any picture frame. > > > Does anyone have sources for such things ... and recommendations for particularly sturdy ones, since these are fairly heavy frames. An online source or an 800#???? > > > Thanks so much! > > > Cheers, > > > M.-J. > > > > This world, after all our science and sciences, is still a > miracle; wonderful, inscrutable, magical and more, to whosoever will > think of it. -- Thomas Carlyle > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 06:30:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 06:29:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Question - Glass Window in Shower Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:29:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712151429.JAA26051@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Bob writes, > >I will not install a window in a shower without placing a piece of >tempered glass on the INSIDE. This is for the protection of the >people that would be clean from the hazards of broken glass and lead. >Seal the tempered glass and the SG together and moisture should not >be a problem. You could have the glass installed into a tempered unit. We do this often for our work that is installed outside. And effected by the elements daily. >I believe the national (USA) building code calls for tempered glass >in a shower. Other windows in a humid bathroom can benefit from >tempered glass. I do believe that stained glass installations are not restircted to the USA building codes. They are works of art. We just installed a fairly large commission by a jacuzzi/shower and the tempered glass is on the outside of the work. It can be viewed at our site under new commissions. http://www.waterw.com/~artglass....if you go past the fireplace screen you will see the installation. We personally have two windows in a master bath........neither covered with glass. The are not exposed to a direct water source. Never had problems with either and one window is estimated to be 135 years old. (Although we did re-cement it about ten years ago. Most of out clients do not want protective covering in front of our work. The reflection is a distraction . And truly takes away from the work itself. I would suggest to suzanne that she have the work installed into a tempered unit if she if afraid of water hitting the window directly. Although she didn't say the the window was in the shower I believe she said the window was next to it. my best, pj (who is looking for the grinch) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 07:40:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 07:38:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Thanks M-J Taylor Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:02:00 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec15.320.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19971213163326.00703a28@pop.netrox.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Summit Stained Glass (see us at: http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk M.-J. Just wanted to post a thank you for your post with the URLs on John LaFarge and Tiffany. I know how precious time is for everyone at this time of the year, just wanted to thank you for yours. Nice Tour! Mike Peck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 07:41:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 07:40:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: UK Suppliers Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:37:08 +0000 Message-ID: <199712151539.PAA10726@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Bunginians - especially in UK It's amazing what a few days of totally dedicated research can do..... My students have been brave "injuns" and noted everything down faithfully that THEY have come across during THEIR travels and brought me as offerings. So my list is growing by the day. I too have visited TSG web-page and been quite incensed at the arrogance and the `15 page of "waffle" I encounted. I am also accumulating quite a file on the customers' experiences at the hands of TSG.... Contrary to TSG claims, there are about approx 60 "stained glass companies with a WEB presence in UK" that I have found soo faaar. And I haven't even been able to explore Scotland yet... So in addition to my own list, I also accidentally managed to stumble across another well-organized WEB-directory (which I now can no longer find :-( ). But I have the lists printed out and as my Christmas offering will be quite happy to send each of you in UK by snail-mail (Charles & Albert in USA need not request! you will get an update anyway!!). The list I have now collected together covers many, many more suppliers you have mentioned, including some surprising new ones for me in Hertfordshire/Bedfordshire. It really would be great if we could get a good net-working system off the ground in UK. I really don't mind starting the ball rolling in sharing the info I have. So here goes: Jerry in Hemel Steve in Glasgow Phil in Glasgow Jill in Bradford/Leeds Barbara & Tony in Cornwall Mike in Coventry Please e-mail me your snail-mail address off group, so I can send you your "Christmas present" (Elizabeth in Bournemouth - I already have your address!!) Are there any other UK based-Bunginians out there???! If I forget, My Warmest wishes to each and all of you for Christmas and a Very Prosperous 1998!!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in wet & cold Hertfordshire (UK) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 07:50:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 07:48:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop.ieee.org!rrubenst From: Ronni Rubenstein To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Question - Glass Window in Shower Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:45:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971215034529.006875d0@pop.ieee.org> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>>>>snip>>>> It can be viewed at >our site under new commissions. http://www.waterw.com/~artglass....if you go >past the fireplace screen you will see the installation. >pj (who is looking for the grinch) >>>end snip>>>> pj I went to your site, "www.waterw.com" but only found the Water Wheel Systems site. Did I do something wrong? Ronni ******************************************************************************* Ronni Rubenstein phone: (732) 562-6381 IEEE Marketing & Sales fax: (732) 981-9334 Inst of Electrical & Electronics Engineers e-mail: r.rubenstein@ieee.org 445 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1331 USA ******************************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 08:15:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:14:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Question - Glass Window in Shower Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:10:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec15.61050.0> References: <<1.5.4.32.19971215034529.006875d0@pop.ieee.org>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Ronni Rubenstein wrote: > > >>>>>snip>>>> > It can be viewed at > >our site under new commissions. http://www.waterw.com/~artglass....if you go > >past the fireplace screen you will see the installation. > >pj (who is looking for the grinch) > >>>end snip>>>> > > pj > > I went to your site, "www.waterw.com" but only found the Water Wheel Systems > site. Did I do something wrong? > > Ronni > ******************************************************************************* > Ronni Rubenstein phone: (732) 562-6381 > IEEE Marketing & Sales fax: (732) 981-9334 > Inst of Electrical & Electronics Engineers e-mail: r.rubenstein@ieee.org > 445 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1331 USA > ******************************************************************************* > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass first you have to remove the ...if from the end. your browser must have some setting to go to the root address, if it can't find the main address.... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 08:37:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:35:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Question - Glass Window in Shower Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:25:40 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec15.32540.0> References: <<1.5.4.32.19971215034529.006875d0@pop.ieee.org>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk If you are reading your email with an integrated reader/browser (like Netscape), a url will be hilited in hypertext, and you can go directly to a site without typing anything. The problem arises when there is not a clean end to the url Ronni Rubenstein wrote: **************************^ bad data. the browser will pick up the elipses and other text - (.....if) > http://www.waterw.com/~artglass....if you go !from here ---------------to here! is a valid urlNetscape is cool for us lazy people, but can be fooled by typos > >I went to your site, "www.waterw.com" but only found the Water Wheel > Systems > site. Did I do something wrong? > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?'"Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 08:40:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:39:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: lead scraps Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:30:53 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec15.163053.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-14 18:39:51 EST, you write: > I for one, and I doubt the only one, who is getting tired of all the negative > comments being made on bungi in the last few weeks. I am certain that this > is > not the point of bungi. What is the purpose of personal attacks, insults, > character assinations? If you don't agree with someone's techniques, > thoughts, etc... then comment in a constructive manner and explain why. I > believe that I can learn something from everyone. If you must be negative > about someone please do it in private e-mail so the rest of us only have to > read about glass issues. Just my opinion. LuAnn > ---- I agree!! >Nice personal charachter attack. Made me feel really good. >Don M. McDonald Don, I wasn't here when there was trouble before on Bungi, but I have heard that you were a good source of information. My advice to you is: don't let it bother you, maybe it was meant as a good natured joke or maybe it was an attack. Lets just drop this. and I also have been growing very tired of the glass cutting/grinding thread too I have been biting my tongue a long time and its begining to hurt. .... and now back to those kind good hearted people who left there soap boxes at the office. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 08:41:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:40:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: lead scraps Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:33:59 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec15.163359.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk PS (should have added this to the last post) we have already lost one person since I have been on this list do to character assasination, any body seen Cody lately? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 08:50:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 08:49:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Help with making frames ... please Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:42:52 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec15.164252.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Dale, I love picture frames too but had given them up for a while because of the stand problem, (I was buying little brass ones to set the frame in) now you have given me an idea maybe we need to try. How about something in the order of a business card holder without sides and larger? I'm thinking as I'm writing, maybe withsomething to also hold the picture in place like a triangle with only the bottom soldered on so that the picture could be slid between the frame and the base. My dad has a store bought glass frame that 2 peices of glass are sandwiched together so that you slip the picture in from the bottom. We could make the back piece in 2 parts so that the base could be soldered to the middle of the back. Ok I'll go play with this idea awhile and see what happens. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 10:12:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:12:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: The Howard Files Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:24:05 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec15.1245.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dawn, Thank you for sending me the Howard Files, I have got about 1/2 way = through them and so far have only found one new item of interest that I = can use. But I'm sure that you know that even one useful item can make = it all worthwhile. I appreciate your quick response and who knows what I = will find of use in the other 1/2. Glenn Spicer Studio Metamorphoses ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 10:33:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:32:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: lead scraps Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:40:21 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > we have already lost one person since I have been on this list do to character > assasination, any body seen Cody lately? He may just be busy. I know he's written (or is writing) an article (or articles) for Common Ground: Glass, the Guild's quarterly, and I haven't heard anything but good news from the editor on that score, no feedback that he's angry about anyone or anything on bungi. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 10:46:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:46:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop.ieee.org!rrubenst From: Ronni Rubenstein To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Question - Glass Window in Shower Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:44:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971215064402.0068fbb0@pop.ieee.org> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thank you, removing the "...if" worked. At 11:10 AM 12/15/97 -0500, you wrote: >Ronni Rubenstein wrote: >> >> >>>>>snip>>>> >> It can be viewed at >> >our site under new commissions. http://www.waterw.com/~artglass....if you go >> >past the fireplace screen you will see the installation. >> >pj (who is looking for the grinch) >> >>>end snip>>>> >> >> pj >> >> I went to your site, "www.waterw.com" but only found the Water Wheel Systems >> site. Did I do something wrong? >> >> Ronni > >first you have to remove the ...if from the end. your browser must have >some setting to go to the root address, if it can't find the main >address.... > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A >Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ******************************************************************************* Ronni Rubenstein phone: (732) 562-6381 IEEE Marketing & Sales fax: (732) 981-9334 Inst of Electrical & Electronics Engineers e-mail: r.rubenstein@ieee.org 445 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1331 USA ******************************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 10:59:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:58:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop.ieee.org!rrubenst From: Ronni Rubenstein To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Help with making frames ... please Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:56:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971215065618.006854c8@pop.ieee.org> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi: I'm a complete amateur, but I like the way my picture frame came out. Surrounding the 5x7" clear glass is my stained glass design. In the back of the clear glass is a piece of stained glass with about 1/4" of space separating the two pieces of glass for the picture to be dropped in. The sg is attached to the clear glass by three small "globs" of solder. The solder also holds the picture in the frame. I made two legs that I soldered onto the corners of the back piece. It's very hard to explain but so easy to do and looks nice, too. Ronni At 11:42 AM 12/15/97 EST, you wrote: >Dale, >I love picture frames too but had given them up for a while because of the >stand problem, (I was buying little brass ones to set the frame in) now you >have given me an idea maybe we need to try. How about something in the order >of a business card holder without sides and larger? I'm thinking as I'm >writing, maybe withsomething to also hold the picture in place like a triangle >with only the bottom soldered on so that the picture could be slid between the >frame and the base. My dad has a store bought glass frame that 2 peices of >glass are sandwiched together so that you slip the picture in from the bottom. >We could make the back piece in 2 parts so that the base could be soldered to >the middle of the back. > Ok I'll go play with this idea awhile and see what happens. >deb >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ******************************************************************************* Ronni Rubenstein phone: (732) 562-6381 IEEE Marketing & Sales fax: (732) 981-9334 Inst of Electrical & Electronics Engineers e-mail: r.rubenstein@ieee.org 445 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1331 USA ******************************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 11:24:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:23:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD094A.FE235440" Subject: RE: ethics and format Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:32:27 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec15.23227.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD094A.FE235440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LuAnn wrote What is the purpose of personal attacks, insults, character = assassinations? If you don't agree with someone's techniques, thoughts, = etc... then comment in a constructive manner and explain why. Deb wrote ...and I also have been growing very tired of the glass = cutting/grinding thread too I have been biting my tongue a long time and its beginning to hurt. ... and now back to those kind good hearted people who left there soap = boxes at the office. I must agree with LuAnn but am not so sure about Deb's comment. The = "soap box" forum for the most part, though often not practical = application, seems to deal with matters philosophical and ethical in = glass (usually of interest to the more experienced members) and I for = one would be disappointed to lose this part of the forum. 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AQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMA DTT9NwAArhM= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD094A.FE235440-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 12:25:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:24:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: UK Suppliers Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:19:01 +0000 Message-ID: <199712152020.UAA16397@pluto.nildram.co.uk> References: <<199712151539.PAA10726@pluto.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Don, I would love to... That will be a future project. For the moment, I still have not quite enough computer knowledge to transfer between systems and page on e-mail. That is still a "learning process" I have to spend some hours (or days) in learning how to do. Right now I simply don't have that sort of time to spare. However, for the time being, I can go down to my local College and run off some photocopies of the stuff not yet in my own data-base, combine it with copies of those that I do have and just mail it. My intention was initially and primarily to get something up and going real fast for the benefit of UK Bunginians who are really STARVED of the choices that you have in USA. They are starved because there simply is not enough information and communication up and running in who does what and - most importantly WHERE. All of the companies on my List/s have a WEB-presence, but they don't necessarily have their own WEB-page (or don't ADVERTISE that they do. Hetleys, for instance, took a very long time to indicate anywhere in my correspondence with them that they have their OWN WEB-site. The first I heard about it was from BUNGI!! Currently they must be regarded as the Doyen of UK Stained Glass Suppliers)). We haven't quite got that far yet in UK. So that does add am additional obstacle in trying to research who is out there in UK. Elizabeth in Bournemouth, for instance is a REAL alternative to TSG, but it's a long "hike" if you are up in Glasgow (Scotland). Moreover, Elizabeth in Bournemouth may not always necessarily have the precise item that you require at THAT particular time. But what a wonderful Service it would be for her to be able to re-direct people to someone who specializes in something - because at the end of the day - other people will do the same for her. ....And so on... As they say - what goes around , comes around. I am very keen in trying to get some kind of Networking going in UK. ALL of Bunginians in UK will benefit from it. Forgive me, but that's is what I want to concentrate on in the FIRST instance. But it's nice to know that folks in USA wish to know and wish to share with us. As regards computer technology, I still have so much to LEARN; please bear with me. .... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Don wrote: Suggest to Elisabeth that those of us who live in cyberspace would really like a list of web sites even if our computers are plugged into a USA socket. I love looking at glass web sites, even if they aren't in English or are located in Europe. Selina (a heeler) says placing your head in her lap and cutting your eyes up at her face usually work well. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 12:38:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:37:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:22:50 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec15.202250.0> References: <<199712150130.UAA17750@mime4.prodigy.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <199712150130.UAA17750@mime4.prodigy.com>, BOB XX writes >Steve writes: >Bob, >Any thoughts on why tublar material isn't used as saddle bars? It >is >stronger (more resistant to bending) than the equivalent size of >round >bar and much lighter. Is the hollow part of the tube the problem? >Steve > Thanks Bob, I'v been putting round bars into the holes which exist or i have made as you describe for some time. What i find many turn of the century workers did was to flaten the round part of the bar where it passes behind the beading of the door frame (in particualr - not seen it for windows) and rely on the beading to keep the saddle bar secure. It of course doesn't for too many years. If I try to bend a 1/4 inch steel bar, it seems to have much more give that an 1/4 inch brass tube, although brass is a softer metal than mild steel. So, I'm not sure that solid round bars are stiffer than tublar material, but I bow to your more extensive experience. I won't try tublar saddle bars! ;-) Steve >Bob writes, >I have never come across a tubular support bar. I suspect that this >is because tube was not as commonly available years ago. Also, a >solid round bar stock is stronger than a tube of the same diameter. A >tube of the same strength would of necessity be larger in diameter >and thus more sightly. A tube is stronger pound for pound than a bar >but not stronger than a solid bar of the same diameter. Sometimes T- >bar is used for reinforcement but I believe it shows more. > >Old style rebar was often (hope I can explain this) inserted into a >round hole ( round holes >are the easiest to make) on one side of the window casement frame >(say two inches) and then backed out (say one inch) into a hole on >the other side of the casement thus trapping the rebar. Heavy U >shaped copper wire soldered in the center of the U to the came >joints is brought around the bar and twisted secure. This is real >simple of you can get ahold of a picture. >Bob > >____ >Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working >with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, >Escondido, CA, 92026,USA >Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 13:49:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:48:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: artisticglassusa.com!studio From: studio@artisticglassusa.com (Artistic Glass of Atlanta) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Please remove me from the list! Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:48:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Please remove me from the list. I am preparing to leave town for a few months. www.artisticglassusa.com Studio@artisticglassusa.com Atlanta, Georgia USA Phone: (770) 992-2900 Fax: (770) 518-8686 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 15:06:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:05:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!ElsieTurqman From: Elsie Turqman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: ethics and format Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:05:34 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec15.23534.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenn I have a computer question. Why are your transmissions converted to word processing files in my "WINWORD" Directory(see end of this file). I don't have this problem with other mail. Thanks, Elsie At 06:32 PM 12/15/97 +0000, you wrote: > >LuAnn wrote >What is the purpose of personal attacks, insults, character assassinations? If you don't agree with someone's techniques, thoughts, etc... then comment in a constructive manner and explain why. > >Deb wrote >...and I also have been growing very tired of the glass cutting/grinding thread >too I have been biting my tongue a long time and its beginning to hurt. >... and now back to those kind good hearted people who left there soap boxes >at the office. > >I must agree with LuAnn but am not so sure about Deb's comment. The "soap box" forum for the most part, though often not practical application, seems to deal with matters philosophical and ethical in glass (usually of interest to the more experienced members) and I for one would be disappointed to lose this part of the forum. >Glenn Spicer >The Studio Metamorphoses > > > >Attachment Converted: D:\MSOFFICE\WINWORD\REethics > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 17:20:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:19:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: earthlink.net!jeksac From: John Keller To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Question - Glass Window in Shower Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:23:25 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec15.132325.0> References: <<1.5.4.32.19971215034529.006875d0@pop.ieee.org>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Admin Kit Investigator Precedence: bulk ronni, hi. when you used the URL that is in the email it includes the "....if" as part of the "address". if you go to your internet area and put the URL in as http://www.waterw.com/~artglass you shouldn't have any prob. i just did it to check it out and it worked well. linn Ronni Rubenstein wrote: > > >>>>>snip>>>> > It can be viewed at > >our site under new commissions. http://www.waterw.com/~artglass....if you go > >past the fireplace screen you will see the installation. > >pj (who is looking for the grinch) > >>>end snip>>>> > > pj > > I went to your site, "www.waterw.com" but only found the Water Wheel Systems > site. Did I do something wrong? > > Ronni > ******************************************************************************* > Ronni Rubenstein phone: (732) 562-6381 > IEEE Marketing & Sales fax: (732) 981-9334 > Inst of Electrical & Electronics Engineers e-mail: r.rubenstein@ieee.org > 445 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1331 USA > ******************************************************************************* > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 15 20:24:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:23:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: ethics and format Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:41:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec15.174144.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I agree with Glenn Spicer... I, too, would miss the soap boxes found on this forum on occasion! Some of Elisabeth's best writing comes from her passionate feelings about glass as an art form and her philosophies as an art teacher! And there are a good many others who have given their time and voice to pass on the fruits of their experiences. Witness the recent thread on grinders - someone asked the question "Do professionals use grinders?" The = responses came from many... or should I say consensus? I, on the other hand, don't care about stepping stones or pattern books. But, as a teacher, my students may very well = care - so I read those threads anyway. I confess, I tend to delete the computer- related ones. And I delete ALL the attack/defend mail because I find it totally inappropriate on this forum and something that can easily be handled off-bungi. The faster it's ignored, the sooner we can get on with the glass business. I think that's why we're all here, after all. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 01:00:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:59:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB XX) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: ethics and format Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 03:56:12, -0500 Message-ID: <199712160856.DAA03560@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I agree with Glen Spicer & Dani Greer. It seems to me that flaming is unnecessary and if desired can be accomplished by private E-mail. Perhaps some do not realize that the address of the originator of a Bungi E-mail is in the header. No big problem though for I have a delete key. BTW the most undesirable post I can remember in the past few months was one from someone that asked for less posts because they were pressed for time. I for three enjoy posts that ramble and bring out the human side of the noble calling of SG. What the hell, this is not paint by numbers. And, of course, the delete key is never more than a few inches away. I think that fully half of the posts here could be avoided. That is just my opinion and not a complaint. After all I have a delete key that lets me quickly move on. Also some posts IMO quote to much reference material. No big deal for I have a scroll bar that goes real fast. Perhaps some think my posts are to long. That may be true, but oftentimes I would have preferred making them twice as long. I like the great majority am doing the best that I can. All in all I think Bungi is as about as good as it gets, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 02:03:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:02:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: ethics and format Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 05:09:32 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In my imagination, bungi's kind of like a cocktail party ... well, at least like the cocktail parties I imagine; I don't think I've ever been to a *real cocktail party, you know: little black dresses, smart tuxedos, flared Martini glasses, etc. That's the movies: Cary Grant and Audrey Hepburn; this is real life, real people instead: bungi. No, to my mind any gathering of people will include a few really interesting conversationalists, a few boors, some bimbos of whatever sex, a wallflower or two. So I concentrate on the interesting conversations, ignore the boors, and am pleasant and polite to the wallflowers, because I've found that quite often once they warm up they're some of the most interesting people. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 07:10:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:08:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: UK Suppliers Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:30:42 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.103042.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 21:19 15/12/97 +0000, EliSabeth 'n Toby wrote: > >Elizabeth in Bournemouth, >for instance is a REAL alternative to TSG, but it's a long "hike" if >you are up in Glasgow (Scotland). Yes, we would like to think that we can fulfil a need for stained glass enthusiasts all over the UK, but we are a retail shop rather than a mail order company. Like most retail shops in this country we do not do not have a catalogue of the supplies we sell, although we stock everything that is needed for working with stained glass - tools & materials for both traditional lead work and copper foil & solder (often called "Tiffany" Stained Glass in this country), a large stock of glass of all kinds, over 20 different sizes of lead, a wide range of pattern and instruction books, electric fittings, vase caps, harps and lamp bases, clock movements & hands, pressed brass "twiddly bits" for decoration etc, etc. I can see from the way this thread is heading that we may eventually be forced to compile a catalogue or at least a price list - maybe I will have time over the Christmas break - but we never wanted to set ourselves up as a mail order company, preferring the physical contact we get now with our customers. Also we really don't have the staff at present to cope with lots of postal enquiries and orders. And we always make sure that buyers of any tools from us are shown how to use them if needed - a few minutes on the bench with an expert on your shoulder can save hours of frustration. However having explained how we are set up, we are nevertheless happy to give anyone in the UK prices and delivery costs of any tools or materials they care to ask about, so any Bungians out there please feel free to email us at shop@stainedglass.co.uk and we'll try to fulfill your requirements. I hope I haven't crossed any line about advertising/trying to sell over the ether on a discussion group - if so please forgive, but I am just trying to let any UK bungians know the situation here. Elizabeth & Sam Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 07:20:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:02:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: ethics and format Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 05:09:32 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In my imagination, bungi's kind of like a cocktail party ... well, at least like the cocktail parties I imagine; I don't think I've ever been to a *real cocktail party, you know: little black dresses, smart tuxedos, flared Martini glasses, etc. That's the movies: Cary Grant and Audrey Hepburn; this is real life, real people instead: bungi. No, to my mind any gathering of people will include a few really interesting conversationalists, a few boors, some bimbos of whatever sex, a wallflower or two. So I concentrate on the interesting conversations, ignore the boors, and am pleasant and polite to the wallflowers, because I've found that quite often once they warm up they're some of the most interesting people. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 07:26:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:25:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: UK Suppliers Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:13:57 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Don, > I would love to... > That will be a future project. > For the moment, I still have not quite enough computer knowledge to > transfer between systems and page on e-mail. That is still a > "learning process" I have to spend some hours (or days) in learning > how to do. Elizabeth, I live so much of my life in front of the computer that I forget that sometimes people do still use paper and pencils rather than paper in the printer. I have one fountain pen that I use for signing checks and letters, several pencils that I use for marking saw lines on wood and my markers that I use for marking on glass, other than that, it comes out of the computer. Even my patterns get scanned in, manipulated, resized and spit out of the computer, although I used to do it with an opaque projector. If you would like to invest in the international postage, you could send me a copy, I'll scan it and key it up then post it for you. Or, if you are sending a copy to Albert, you could always make him do it for you. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 07:30:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:30:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: plant buddies Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:33:10 -0600 Message-ID: <199712161320.HAA26628@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This might be of interest to folks who make suncatchers I have been rummaging around in my old stuff and found a few of my *plant buddy* prototypes. These were essentially small 6-8 piece copper foiled ditties.... cute multi-color insect forms in side view with the wings up and a segmented body............ they were soldered to a lenght of bronze brazing rod which is nice and stiff and easy to solder. The marketing idea was to stick one, or better yet several :-) down into the pot of a nice plant and have it positioned in an attractive light catching manner. Sold a bunch of these at one point and I was wondering if they ever became a standard hobbiest item. If not they might be worth reviving....can never have too many variations in the craft and novelties market. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 07:49:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:49:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: ethics and format Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:16:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712161416.JAA20774@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk and....................I agree with Glen Spicer & Dani Greer and Bob, In fact I missed the whole episode.....I hope it wasn't me that started it. I haven't a clue about who got flamed!!! Sorry about the mistake I made when posting our web site. My apologizes to those who had trouble accessing it. And thanks to those who cleaned up the problem. And thanks to Glen, Dani and Bob for saying everything I wanted to say. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 08:06:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:05:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Congrats to Bob Oddy Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:19:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.51929.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Since I know everyone on bungi doesn't receive Spectrum's "The Score" quarterly publication, I just want to let everyone know that Mr. Robert (Bob) Oddy's work titled "Central New York" was selected as the featured piece on the current Spectrum postcards. And I know Bob is a secret sometimes lurker here on bungi. So, congratulations Bob! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 08:17:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:16:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: charlie@az.stratus.com (Charles Spitzer) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hello! New intro, plea for help.. Date: Tue, 16 Dec 97 9:15:34 MST Message-ID: References: <<1997Dec15.202250.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk 'Steve Richard has written' > > In message <199712150130.UAA17750@mime4.prodigy.com>, BOB XX > writes > >Steve writes: > >Bob, > >Any thoughts on why tublar material isn't used as saddle bars? It > >is > >stronger (more resistant to bending) than the equivalent size of > >round > >bar and much lighter. Is the hollow part of the tube the problem? > >Steve > > from what i recall from my motorcycle, a tube is stronger than a bar (something to do with skin tension) UNTIL is bends, and then is weaker. of course, a tube can't be straightened out and made strong again, unlike a bar, which has about the same strength either bent or straight but in a plane 90 degrees from the bend. a square tube is stronger than a round tube, which is why they're building most motorcycle frames out of square tubing now. -- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 08:29:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:28:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: charlie@az.stratus.com (Charles Spitzer) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Help with making frames ... please Date: Tue, 16 Dec 97 9:27:56 MST Message-ID: References: <<3.0.1.32.19971214185037.006af5e0@pop.netrox.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk i've made some frames with a very simple 3 piece stand. i made a bottom rectangular piece the width of the frame, and deep enough to be a proper support when the frame is tipped backwards. i then made a thin piece that goes from about 2/3rds the way from the top of the frame to the back of the bottom. here's some rough asii art: / / /| / | / | / | ----- the height of the vertical piece determines the angle of tilt. since there's not much weight on the vertical pieces, it can be pretty thin. as i recall, on an 8x10, i made it be 1/2". the bottom doesn't have to rectanguler in shape. as to how to hang heavy frames on the wall: on wooden frames, i've used the normal picture hangers that one can buy at the hardware store. they look like a miniature sawtooth piece of stamped metal that one can nail or screw into the back of the piece. a small screw set into wet cement would probably hold a pretty heavy piece onto the wall. -- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ 'M.-J. Taylor has written' > > Hi, Bungis ... > > > I'm working on a mosaic mirror frame for my guest bathroom ... this one will be attached with tapcons, directly into the wall, and then the mirror attached ... but making this has gotten me interested in making some smaller versions to give as presents th> is holiday season. > > > So, I need something to attach to the back so that the frame hung on the wall ... or better yet, a backing to make it possible to stand the frame on a table, as any picture frame. > > > Does anyone have sources for such things ... and recommendations for particularly sturdy ones, since these are fairly heavy frames. An online source or an 800#???? > > > Thanks so much! > > > Cheers, > > > M.-J. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 08:29:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:29:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: UK Suppliers Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:36:36 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > send me a copy, I'll scan it and key it up then post it for you. Or, > if you are sending a copy to Albert, you could always make him do it > for you. That's what computers do the easiest ... volunteer other people to do work. Since I already voluntarily scan stuff for Guild members' web sites, I won't mind including other things, sure. Flat art no larger than 8.5"x 14" ... slides in 35mm format only. Those are my limitations, apart from any personality disorders I might have. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 08:35:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:34:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: hexacon iron Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:30:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.63056.0> References: <<1997Dec16.51929.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk i was reading about the new hexacon iron. it's called the Phenix ultra-sg (that's how the magazine spelled it). does anyonek know if it's any good? it's pretty new (or new to me anyway), has anyone tried it? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 09:04:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:03:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail1.ciwemb.edu!jewell From: "Connie Jewell" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: hexacon iron Date: 16 Dec 1997 12:00:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.7046.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk RE>hexacon iron 12/16/97 I read the same article and I'm curious about this iron as well. Sounds interesting, I've been debating getting one of their irons with the angled arm for doing inside of lamps and other 3 D projects that can be hard to solder inside. Jewell jewell@mail1 ciwemb.edu -------------------------------------- Date: 12/16/97 11:53 AM To: Connie Jewell From: glass@bungi.com Received: by mail1.ciwemb.edu with SMTP;16 Dec 1997 11:49:48 -0500 Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:34:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: hexacon iron Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:30:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.63056.0> References: <<1997Dec16.51929.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk i was reading about the new hexacon iron. it's called the Phenix ultra-sg (that's how the magazine spelled it). does anyonek know if it's any good? it's pretty new (or new to me anyway), has anyone tried it? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 09:16:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:16:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop.ieee.org!rrubenst From: Ronni Rubenstein To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: plant buddies Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 00:13:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971216051351.0067bcd8@pop.ieee.org> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len: Great idea. I've never seen them around here (New Jersey, USA). I also never heard of a bronze brazing rod. What is one and where do you purchase it? Do you stick the bronze rod into the soil? Does it deteriorate through time and waterings? Ronni At 07:33 AM 12/16/97 -0600, you wrote: >This might be of interest to folks who make suncatchers > >I have been rummaging around in my old stuff and found a few of my *plant >buddy* prototypes. These were essentially small 6-8 piece copper foiled >ditties.... cute multi-color insect forms in side view with the wings up >and a segmented body............ they were soldered to a lenght of bronze >brazing rod which is nice and stiff and easy to solder. The marketing idea >was to stick one, or better yet several :-) down into the pot of a nice >plant and have it positioned in an attractive light catching manner. > >Sold a bunch of these at one point and I was wondering if they ever became a >standard hobbiest item. If not they might be worth reviving....can never >have too many variations in the craft and novelties market. > >Len > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ******************************************************************************* Ronni Rubenstein phone: (732) 562-6381 IEEE Marketing & Sales fax: (732) 981-9334 Inst of Electrical & Electronics Engineers e-mail: r.rubenstein@ieee.org 445 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1331 USA ******************************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 10:04:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:03:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!tresmith From: tresmith@city-net.com (Theresa Smith) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: plant buddies Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:56:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712161756.MAA08274@dns.city-net.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I used one of the rods from a box hinge to solder on the back of a little suncatcher and then pushed that into the plant. Its been there for about 4 years and still is holding up. I didn't have any special patterns - just used a few nice, simple flowers and birds from other patterns. A bright little iris or two really brightened up a plain green plant. Theresa >Len: >Great idea. I've never seen them around here (New Jersey, USA). I also never >heard of a bronze brazing rod. What is one and where do you purchase it? Do >you stick the bronze rod into the soil? Does it deteriorate through time and >waterings? > >Ronni > >At 07:33 AM 12/16/97 -0600, you wrote: >>This might be of interest to folks who make suncatchers >> >>I have been rummaging around in my old stuff and found a few of my *plant >>buddy* prototypes. These were essentially small 6-8 piece copper foiled >>ditties.... cute multi-color insect forms in side view with the wings up >>and a segmented body............ they were soldered to a lenght of bronze >>brazing rod which is nice and stiff and easy to solder. The marketing idea >>was to stick one, or better yet several :-) down into the pot of a nice >>plant and have it positioned in an attractive light catching manner. >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 10:35:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:34:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: plant buddies Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:45:38 -0600 Message-ID: <199712161832.MAA17810@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Ronni Rubenstein To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 11:33 AM Subject: Re: plant buddies >Len: > >Great idea. I've never seen them around here (New Jersey, USA). I also never >heard of a bronze brazing rod. What is one and where do you purchase it? There are several types . The ones that I used were 12 inches long I believe. I'm not sure how the diameter is measured but if you used a wire guage standard I'd say it would be about an 10 or an 8 guage. I would go directly to a welding supply house as they would have the largest assortment and the best prices. I think they are alloyed differently for working at different temps (like solder) and priced accordingly. The cheapest ones will do. This was ten years ago and I have no idea what they would cost now. I'm sure I paid less then a dollar each at the time. Do >you stick the bronze rod into the soil? Does it deteriorate through time and >waterings? Yes stick em right down in the soil . Solder the glass on the full lenght rod. The rod could be cut down later for shorter plants. No, since it is non-ferrous it will oxidize on the surface only and last for many moons even in wet dirt. Nice thing about them was the portability.... want to make a change just pull it up stick it a different pot or put it out in the garden or an out door planter in the summer Len OBTW......in case anyone gets the wrong impression... like that I made copper foil suncatchers, most of these were fabricated by my SO to make a little extra dough and make a dent in the scrap boxes. Wouldn't want to ruin my reputation as a hard core leaded window guy ;-) >Ronni > >At 07:33 AM 12/16/97 -0600, you wrote: >>This might be of interest to folks who make suncatchers >> >>I have been rummaging around in my old stuff and found a few of my *plant >>buddy* prototypes. These were essentially small 6-8 piece copper foiled >>ditties.... cute multi-color insect forms in side view with the wings up >>and a segmented body............ they were soldered to a lenght of bronze >>brazing rod which is nice and stiff and easy to solder. The marketing idea >>was to stick one, or better yet several :-) down into the pot of a nice >>plant and have it positioned in an attractive light catching manner. >> >>Sold a bunch of these at one point and I was wondering if they ever became a >>standard hobbiest item. If not they might be worth reviving....can never >>have too many variations in the craft and novelties market. >> >>Len >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> >*************************************************************************** **** >Ronni Rubenstein phone: (732) 562-6381 >IEEE Marketing & Sales fax: (732) 981-9334 >Inst of Electrical & Electronics Engineers e-mail: r.rubenstein@ieee.org >445 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1331 USA >*************************************************************************** **** > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 10:38:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:38:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: WinWord conversion Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:57:18 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.15718.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenn, I have a computer question. Why are your transmissions = converted to word processing files in my "WinWord" Directory(see end of = this file). I don't have this problem with other mail. Attachment Converted: D:\MSOFFICE\WINWORD\Reethics Thanks, Elsie Elsie, what does this conversion do at your end? I don't know, is anyone = else having this problem(?) with my transmissions? Does anyone know what = may be causing it? Glenn Spicer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 11:23:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:22:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: WinWord conversion Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:24:39 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Elsie, what does this conversion do at your end? I don't know, is anyone = > else having this problem(?) with my transmissions? Does anyone know what = > may be causing it? > Glenn Spicer > Glenn, I get an equals sign at the end of every line. Other than that, I have no difficulty with your posts. I suspect that your mail program is encoding your messages and some mail readers are having trouble with the decoding. Might look at the options on your mail program and see if you can choose to not encode. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 11:47:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:46:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: WinWord conversion Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 14:23:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.92327.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenn- I get about two screens = worth of gibberish on my old dinosaur. (All the computer gurus are probably cringing!) That's after your signature. Stunned by technology, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 12:46:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:45:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: televar.com!fishbait From: Fishbait To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Plant Buddies Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:43:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.44331.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have made them too, but I call them Plant Watchers. I like your name for them better though. I made a bunch of them with a nautical theme and shipped them to a place on the beach in Texas and they sold and are requesting more of them. I have got my brazing rods at the local farm supply and also at the local soldering place. Bonnie Clark Washington State ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 14:59:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 14:58:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: hexacon iron Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:55:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.12559.0> References: <<1997Dec16.7046.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Connie Jewell wrote: > > RE>hexacon iron 12/16/97 > > I read the same article and I'm curious about this iron as well. Sounds > interesting, I've been debating getting one of their irons with the angled arm > for doing inside of lamps and other 3 D projects that can be hard to solder > inside. > > Jewell > jewell@mail1 ciwemb.edu > > -------------------------------------- > Date: 12/16/97 11:53 AM > To: Connie Jewell > From: glass@bungi.com > Received: by mail1.ciwemb.edu with SMTP;16 Dec 1997 11:49:48 -0500 > Received: by daver.bungi.com > via smail with stdio > id > for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:34:48 -0800 (PST) > (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) > X-Path: nac.net!morn > From: "M. Savad" > To: glass@bungi.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Subject: hexacon iron > Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:30:56 -0500 > Message-ID: <1997Dec16.63056.0> > References: <<1997Dec16.51929.0>> > Reply-To: glass@bungi.com > Precedence: bulk > > i was reading about the new hexacon iron. it's called the Phenix > ultra-sg (that's how the magazine spelled it). does anyonek know if it's > any good? it's pretty new (or new to me anyway), has anyone tried it? > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A > Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i know hexacon makes good irons, which is why this sounds good to me. however hexacon, also makes heavy irons, which can kill you arm. i need ot find a decent replacement for my ungar. i still don't like the ungar, but the solder turns to water, when hot. and i'm used to that, the hakko i got was a waste of money (i'll use it for a decorative iron), it just does'nt get hot enough for me... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 15:01:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:00:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: WinWord conversion Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:56:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.125639.0> References: <<1997Dec16.92327.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer wrote: > > Glenn- > > I get about two screens = > > worth of gibberish on my > old dinosaur. (All the computer > gurus are probably cringing!) > That's after your signature. > > Stunned by technology, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it must be viewing the file, instead of just attaching it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 15:33:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:32:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:09:42 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec16.23942.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-15 21:08:49 EST, you write: > I must agree with LuAnn but am not so sure about Deb's comment. The "soap box" > forum for the most part, though often not practical application, seems to > deal with matters philosophical and ethical in glass (usually of interest to > the more experienced members) and I for one would be disappointed to lose > this part of the forum. > Glenn Spicer > The Studio Metamorphoses How can you say that it is usually of interest to the more experienced memebers when the more experienced are all arguing that the inexperienced can't cut worth a flip since they use a grinder once in a while. What would one experienced member learn from another experienced member about that. Or do the experienced ones prefer to give the inexperienced a hard time instead of telling them why it is a good idea to learn to perfect the art of cutting. Maybe in the time that they are learning to cut better they will save the money on glass wasted by grinding a little. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 15:46:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:46:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: hexacon iron Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:46:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712162346.SAA15471@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk HI Mike, Well let me tell you about the L iron. Years ago when you were a baby we used to have hexacon make these for us. They are what we used to call hatchet handle. Kind of upside down. Nothing new about them just the fact you can order from a catalog. my best, pj >i was reading about the new hexacon iron. it's called the Phenix >ultra-sg (that's how the magazine spelled it). does anyonek know if it's >any good? it's pretty new (or new to me anyway), has anyone tried it? > >---Mike Savad > > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A >Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 15:54:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:53:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: UK Suppliers Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:50:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199712162352.XAA09752@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thank you Elizabeth in Bournemouth! You have explained very succinctly where you are coming from and where you stand (which is what I sort of suspected) So much more a reason for us Stained Glass people in UK to get together and Network..... An Idea !; Would it be within the realms of possibility that WE UK Bunginians could meet up for a week-end in Bournemouth, for us to perhaps discuss what we want, what we need and what we can do together (to pool resources). Perhaps sometime next February/March?? Elizabeth - you as a retailer - would obviously be a focus for the rest of us. There must be so many ways that we could co-operate and pool resources...... (Glasgow a bit too cold in February...., though I am planning a College stained glass trip up there for later next year!! So watch out Fellas!!). Before we get into planning details.... How about reactions to the idea in principle, UK-Bunginians???? (EliZabeth??) And! What a potential FUN get-together!! Isn't it just "sickening" to hear about how all these US Bunginians meet up at this exhibition, that Trade Fair,, that Convention or another National stained Glass event! Ideas please!!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in freezing Hertfordshire (UK) EliZabeth in Bournemouth wrote: Yes, we would like to think that we can fulfil a need for stained glass enthusiasts all over the UK, but we are a retail shop rather than a mail order company. Like most retail shops in this country we do not do not have a catalogue of the supplies we sell, although we stock everything that is needed for working with stained glass - tools & materials for both traditional lead work and copper foil & solder (often called "Tiffany" Stained Glass in this country), a large stock of glass of all kinds, over 20 different sizes of lead, a wide range of pattern and instruction books, electric fittings, vase caps, harps and lamp bases, clock movements & hands, pressed brass "twiddly bits" for decoration etc, etc. I can see from the way this thread is heading that we may eventually be forced to compile a catalogue or at least a price list - maybe I will have time over the Christmas break - but we never wanted to set ourselves up as a mail order company, preferring the physical contact we get now with our customers. Also we really don't have the staff at present to cope with lots of postal enquiries and orders. And we always make sure that buyers of any tools from us are shown how to use them if needed - a few minutes on the bench with an expert on your shoulder can save hours of frustration. However having explained how we are set up, we are nevertheless happy to give anyone in the UK prices and delivery costs of any tools or materials they care to ask about, so any Bungians out there please feel free to email us at shop@stainedglass.co.uk and we'll try to fulfill your requirements. I hope I haven't crossed any line about advertising/trying to sell over the ether on a discussion group - if so please forgive, but I am just trying to let any UK bungians know the situation here. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 15:54:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:53:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: UK Suppliers Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:50:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199712162352.XAA09745@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hey, Al;bert, I wouldn't dream of doing that to you...... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Albert wrote: That's what computers do the easiest ... volunteer other people to do work. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 15:55:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:53:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: UK Suppliers Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:50:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199712162352.XAA09748@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Don, ...Wwwelll... since you asked & offered... I WILL send you a copy too. I wouldn't have the "nerve" to ask poor ole' Albert; he's got enough on his plate as it is.. Sure; I'll invest in US postage. (Toby! that's ONE less Christmas pressie for YOU!!... :-( ) It would sure take a bit of sweat off my hands.... and who knows... might me useful for UK Newbies-to- be. You know... the ones that are still "a twinkle in my eye"..... But send me your snail-mail address.. But what (other) use would a UK suppliers list have to you folks in USA?? (And I am not talking about like people like Charles Warner, where it is obvious) ??? Just curious.. (....Oh... yes... still steeped very much in stone-age customs of paper & pencil - sigh!) My very Best! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Don wrote: I live so much of my life in front of the computer that I forget that sometimes people do still use paper and pencils rather than paper in the printer. I have one fountain pen that I use for signing checks and letters, several pencils that I use for marking saw lines on wood and my markers that I use for marking on glass, other than that, it comes out of the computer. Even my patterns get scanned in, manipulated, resized and spit out of the computer, although I used to do it with an opaque projector. If you would like to invest in the international postage, you could send me a copy, I'll scan it and key it up then post it for you. Or, if you are sending a copy to Albert, you could always make him do it for you. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 15:55:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:53:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: ethics and format Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:50:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199712162352.XAA09730@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Oh.. shucks... (blush..) Dani.... I am just a simple soul who wants to give stained glass my "best shot". Passionate!!? ME?? Nah!! Just like to wind people up ;-) ...Or play Devil's Advocate... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Dani wrote: I agree with Glenn Spicer... I, too, would miss the soap boxes found on this forum on occasion! Some of Elisabeth's best writing comes from her passionate feelings about glass as an art form and her philosophies as an art teacher! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 16:00:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:59:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: hexacon iron Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:58:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712162358.SAA15948@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Hi again MIke, RE>hexacon iron 12/16/97 My last post didn't help with whether it was a good iron or not. Yes it is if it is the same one they used to produce years ago. Great iron for those who foil. can really run a bead of solder really smooth with it. I personally used to love them. Probably have three or four lying around somewhere. pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 18:13:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:10:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: UK Suppliers Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:18:28 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I wouldn't dream of doing that to you... I only do it to myself, Elisabeth, and I'm not really complaining. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 19:08:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:07:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: plant buddies Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:03:19 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.3319.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Hi Len: I saw some of these in Indiana just in the past year - they appear to be real sellers at the gift/hobby/craft shows. I haven't made any yet but plan to over the winter for some spring shows I'll be doing. I could be interested in any tips you have for making them since you have the knowledge and experience with them. Thanks in advance. LElsbury@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 19:23:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:22:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!diamonds From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: plant buddies Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:04:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.17455.0> References: <<199712161320.HAA26628@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I wondered if you'd mind sharing the patterns for those cute little diddies?? I do stained glass and have lots of plants. I'd love to have some of the patterns. If you'd be willing to share them. diamonds@juno.com Thanks Mary Austin 801 Merry Lane Greenwood, In 46142 I appreciate your help ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 19:59:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:57:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:51:10 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.35110.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I took a beginners glass class - it has turned out to be the best decision of my life. I absolutely love working with glass. I want to learn all that I can and be the best at it. I was taught to cut glass but maybe not by the best person or with the best technique because I also was taught about grinders. As I sit here typing this with very sore, cut fingertips I can honestly say the second best day of my life will be when I don't need a grinder at all (I do use one a whole lot less than 4 yrs. ago). I wish there was some way I could be shown on bungi a better cutting technique so I could stop using my grinder (I don't see a big difference between using a grinder and rubbing two pieces of glass together to get rid of the rough edges). Given the condition of my fingertips I have asked Santa for a new grinding bit. If all of this makes me a crafter rather than a professional, an artist, etc... in someone's eyes - so be it - I know who I am, what I am, and what I'm about. I'm not looking for, but will accept, other's approval, but if I don't get the approval so be that too. I joined bungi to learn from others and to offer help if I could. I am absolutely in AWE of alot of the bungians - with their apparent skills and works that they do. I hope that I will be doing glass longer than the most veteran bungian, but I also hope that I learn everything that person(s) knows. In short, I guess I am being extremely selfish about what is written on bungi. I don't want to know you personal feelings about another person's character but of his/her FINISHED product. If it's not quality work I want to know why and I can't see how using a grinder plays into this. I don't see how a person "spamming" plays into this. I know from the private e-mail I have received that other's support this opinion. I would also be extremely happy if this all drops now and we GET ON with glass issues. Just my opinion - LuAnn (LElsbury@aol.com) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 20:01:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:59:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: ethics and format Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:44:33 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.114433.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I (Glenn Spicer)wrote > I must agree with LuAnn but am not so sure about Deb's comment. The "soap box" > forum for the most part, though often not practical application, seems to > deal with matters philosophical and ethical in glass (usually of interest to > the more experienced members) and I for one would be disappointed to lose > this part of the forum. Deb responded How can you say that it is usually of interest to the more experienced memebers when the more experienced are all arguing that the inexperienced can't cut worth a flip since they use a grinder once in a while. What would one experienced member learn from another experienced member about that. Or do the experienced ones prefer to give the inexperienced a hard time instead of telling them why it is a good idea to learn to perfect the art of cutting. Maybe in the time that they are learning to cut better they will save the money on glass wasted by grinding a little. deb Well Deb you seemed to take exception to a very mild response that I made "not so sure about Deb's comment) with lots of latitude for exceptions, "usually", "for the most part", "often", "seems". I don't ever recall saying that "the inexperienced can't cut worth a flip" nor do I recall the others saying this. I do recall that the experienced members are frequently giving helpful advice whenever asked. I think that the "why" of learning to perfect the art of cutting was addressed in a number of ways. I don't think that the "inexperienced" were singled out for "excessive" use of a grinder. The whole cutting issue I think got stated, if my memory serves me right, by the comment > "You can do so much >more detail with the saw and we do use one but it is slow compared to han>d cutting....> We are glad we learned hand cutting. It is worth it." And someone asking how much different people used grinding and the ensuing conversation got into philosophy. But "do the experienced ones prefer to give the inexperienced a hard time", leads me to add to what I said above about the advice given. I have found that student invariably do better if they are given a little bit of a "hard time" so long as it is given in the spirit of encouragement. "when the more experienced are all arguing", that part is somewhat uncalled for, or perhaps you are ignoring all the contributions that the "experienced" make. "What would one experienced member learn from another experienced member about that." Well experienced members are more often than not teachers and we (I hope the others don't mind me using the 'we') try to learn from other experienced glass workers as well as from our students (as a closed mind is a dying mind) so that we can teach and share better. We used to be the inexperienced. So let me close in saying that the soap box looks like it's here to stay, a part of bungi that the inexperienced will have to "put up with" just as the more experienced will have to "put up with" helping those who need it. In short, a little understanding goes a long way! Well Deb I hope that answers your "How can you say" and I hope I haven't gotten too wordy but ..... Glenn Spicer Studio Metamorphoses begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AL#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`@ $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````/0`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0!33510`&=L M87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !```` M$ ```&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`#`!4,`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````2 M````)V=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;2<````"`0LP`0```!4```!33510.D=,05-3 M0$)53D=)+D-/30`````#```Y``````L`0#H!````'@#V7P$````0````9VQA MY&_0GXK\F3RH?*=TI7R>/*U0Y#E ?+J0P`2@C, `"@G-T>>IL!Y!H">!T M```34 /P4&1C=&P*L5PR6&&89&IU,7 %$&=H!4([%C(,`6,)P#)@`S!S;GQE M>!DTYF)A%Q!D`B UH#5&YS'0,Y [ MD2 Q,3,.4#:?_S>O.+\`43G\`* T;CQ_/8;_,20/P#Z//Y] KPY0.>]##]M$ M'SVS,P*"$Q!C-F!+H9,SD#VP=&DYD"!$`1"H875L!4!0"L!A"<#@87!H($8" M(38D)4#H9FDM#Y X`4 Y,% SZTP1&'H=&4Z M-B0V3_]1#U(?_U,O5#DQP#VC#B%+H3JV#E";56]6?E(Y@1U5N:W@AE1721S&@ M;@.@4W -X'UBDGUXTG@P>'!Q40& ;O]8, !@"?!-H'T``@$UX%Y2+F4`\'T` M,8!P'H!<=ND(D'=K"X!D:T""\@3PYP= *%&"U'IK#E .`'$B]SV"A-4"$&\% M0A )DT-X -@!,+D1/5( @%Q!X<-LU(6=R> % @5%N,= :\'N*U$XT M8WYQ$P(`@ 60;/YV0:%&T YP->"-8@&0`"#_C?*#07U!`<&-81;@#W ``.=& MT S0`9 @+GW$C7:$P?^.(4YP>,".CX^?D*\/P$;0;P6!DD^37Y1O;&M 1M!L M]Y(/EL^7U2F0W"5 E:^:C_&7Q&(@* *1FZ^-HUE0_YE?GA^?+Z _C=!C$*&" MCE__HN^C_Y#<* "ACZ3]ZS7L* MA;)TBS*P/N)^YHSYJ(+VP;;3A($[1"> @0P/PP@`@3'5!?W%B_V=0Q^"(`!-0 M!4"(X,F@"'#/$X !H&=!3A%B)P0@!:":;7TR+E? ,= @(HC@QT\`"H4&X'@B M( J%QV#W@<%](,U2(,(`$X $8,?!N0JQ="S-\0A@M3 @B/%_"?#)8Q=P`-!- MT(/AQ^!P_PM0T%%-T (@SM 7$(;@!"#^=,G S-^[PS3* M@BX@UN';@+ A9-Z&>TBWW^#*X .1>0A@R:!AUE#_XN!8L-5 YM$$(-7_UP/7 MW__8XMZ/WY_@K^&SV3'*H--R_G\:\!!0S>')P&=-XO$/\W'_ M%N';X0=QU4$Q<#V1]T;=P?]GX&=Q\)*&X.X!UE#F]/3A_X8`-2#K@#V0V_/Y M,]'1V)'_$%#KH,WSW77RX4W0#W#>=OV]('G;`;,1S@(`X_"VUE#_[[+Y(_!S MR<#RXME@TU+T1/\6J#+L,EY M(O\<[VEQ]H#*/W^Q\)P0*J\HCR4AR$3<,'1_RM#6<8<1+D\O7RF"`U!UO[ P MS;,QORNO++(B!W,G/[\UGRR%SM WOSC/'<,QR["?.F\[?QW#Y"#G52(L/0__ M/A\=PU;@/.]!'SQGS<]"S_=#WS\6SM BSV- #T=_0BG_T7-&?TJ_';0E,)# M61!J,/]-+TX_]H TOU"?3Q*]L&"!W_*Q8>+D<8/A"T)Y\'=,S_M2WQW#-T*_ M5T].Q_]?\GG_6/]:#UAU\RI8XEVO7K_V@/_/P/S#O;!5)>A_P$.,@+0%X!FC-#] MQ^!D@O#T(>X25--TP"'0_F1EGV:O'?)E?VZO'='#,>^]L-3A?K#PJ"(#$OF+\5`C)8 MTYK/^YO?B4-9YC'EXF-1R;''H/QC:)U/GE^)&I3OHB^7#_^D;Z*NZ0.P,+S MO4#(1,X"_]M0Y<#9PGVP_-*"(_?!R0+]`U1SW##EP^TW[ &_YJ/MY^)!QN [Z/5@:K3^2/O MV0&M@;,G]G%)YP/S) -0[T]2N8^ZGYSD(,C `%#)L'\!`-IB;6%KH^6QH,+; M(6;__I$N`73AU!"&$?2A`% -YO^_3\!?%.11Q,7?QN\5$4CPW]G"_1,!0/!C MD=!N5.';4-\B4X["UJ%TT=/&>"/X9_3`O\/`!^23^0_ M_]MFY]\43F+@.D/J3Q1.*:#]^2%DD*,BHGE0(I+V(":C_\Q0%^ L\@N!^X;T MP.R?[:_\,3,V\&QEY8*MHO(?\R[_G1!P'_7_\^1C@'P@"X&!(/YURP-\,48` M-#'$,7G@^%#_&- M`&M!8U$*58^!",?TL_\.9ZO `U&"8_>/^)_T`#S4__]/ M^,_G#P'_`)TJ$LV #D+_D*"L%/V4!'\%C_>&J,SQP:1C0==/FD2T@)8!,O#@_T`/],(-NO$[\4QFS2196I M0>8[]ZE!55(/D&?+HA5?%F\4V?\:WQOO20%\$T8RK#/"4? C__IP54+FP8$A M'1\>+_0`,("O21!%<73Q?"!PD*!YG_'_:H(2<&,1R[)CULOQ$E&KT?\W_-L.6T M9%54=&V"T9"R@B#?5<3QSTOO1^*V,"=3WU3OWT@"?;!63U=?5?,I'X"0(?_O M@4 Y00]3SUG/1_&=$+QA_WF0OJ)M@&I2OI%K\&Q!D*#W7"0,$/KV1*1P,V!:=+G4L*L08*09'G+LE*R91__9B]DLELPH)%\ M$ZKQH")0(_W*XW,#X:NQ_'.^($A?:F^_1^+*T,3$[X%"4.7/9/=O]V]_1^+3 M(%-;HE*1AB%GTO]YTLQ0:.-\$W+?<^](`,@@3:HS;R2@J\!O> <1;]YKD* 0 M0&" OP$GD*!!(?OO8X\!>9% @I ?XX)AJ]#]!T!I)TAW+W@_2 #L4.8<3ZG@ M)@'Z`^^!(G"KX77_>?"IXL'@.Z)G8A@_@,]]S_]^WT@`-12%CW\/Q%"!^(?/ M_XC?AW-[03J04U1U\O @WE#_WX#FP;\1^=!V0<,POM#L?_^+ST?B1:#]]_IQ MS#%[X,53K\RQWY']\0F#_OJ)HT*<_J$^6D-,A)M&V0?\P M+ZS_D;,/73HO.S^N[Z__7C5((:[?M4^V4D?^4&[]0'!3"T#FL"&OMZ^6@0:P M_[$_LD^S7[G_NP]U(/L1S(#T($W\<&&#<\\`Z2@*EQB M3&MM8(#Z@5]-\*!L$D3,8&%]PN9]```!R' #`! 0``````,`$1 ``````P" M$/____] ```"6 "" &```` M``# ````````1@````!4A0```0````0````X+C ``P`F@ @@!@``````P `` M`````$8``````84````````+`"^ "" &``````# ````````1@`````.A0`` M``````,`,( (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!&%`````````P`R@ @@!@`` M````P ```````$8`````&(4````````>`$& "" &``````# ````````1@`` M```VA0```0````$`````````'@!"@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````-X4` M``$````!`````````!X`0X (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#B%```!```` F`0`````````>`#T``0````4```!213H@``````,`#33]-P``O>Z% ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 20:14:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:13:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: snowcrest.net!beermug From: Paul Deutsch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: plant buddies Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:13:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <199712170413.UAA26812@snowcrest.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just be SURE it's not copper rod. Brass braizing rods can be found at any welding shop, comes in many different sizes, usually in 3' lengths, about $4-$5 a pound, and there's quite a few rods in a pound. Sherry At 12:13 AM 12/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >Len: >Great idea. I've never seen them around here (New Jersey, USA). I also never >heard of a bronze brazing rod. What is one and where do you purchase it? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 20:16:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:15:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:15:20 -0800 Message-ID: <199712170415.UAA25106@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello to all of the list, a few of you may even remember me (fondly or not, so). anyway............my $.02 may be forthcoming at the least provocation. enjoy, it is only glass..............H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 20:36:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:35:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: hexacon iron Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:33:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.163346.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi pj- Why did you "used to" love Hexacons? No more? Is it because you're not doing copper foil anymore? I noticed they carried them at Bendheim = and almost ordered one because Mike used them for years to power blast through big foil jobs. Haven't had a = source for them in forever until recently. I don't know about the new models but the old ones ran hot and fast... great if you can drive 120 mph = and still stay in control (and, yes, I'm still talking about soldering)! We're just using various Wellers right now, but I'd like to find something a bit = better than the Weller 150. Suggestions are welcome! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 16 23:37:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:37:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: LEIsbury's Sore Fingertips Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:36:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.213659.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, A helpful hint when I have some grinding to do. First of all, I wrap gauzetape around my fingertips and thumbs. Then, I put my rubber gloves on. Gauzetape can be picked up at any drug store for about 2 dollars. (It is usually used to wrap injured sprains and strains, which I seem to do often!! No matter how hard I try not to...thinking of changing my middle name to Klutz...LOL) This prevents cut and/or slice fingers and relieves my tendency to press too hard into the grinding wheel. Hope this helps, Jazzykid Shivering in Michigan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 00:03:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 00:03:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: LEIsbury's Sore Fingertips Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:03:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec16.22329.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk sorry....not rubber gloves...latex gloves...like what the medical professions use. -----Original Message----- From: jazzykid To: bungi Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 2:51 AM Subject: LEIsbury's Sore Fingertips >Hi, > A helpful hint when I have some grinding to do. First of all, I >wrap gauzetape around my fingertips and thumbs. Then, I put my rubber >gloves on. Gauzetape can be picked up at any drug store for about 2 >dollars. (It is usually used to wrap injured sprains and strains, which I >seem to do often!! No matter how hard I try not to...thinking of changing >my middle name to Klutz...LOL) This prevents cut and/or slice fingers and >relieves my tendency to press too hard into the grinding wheel. > >Hope this helps, >Jazzykid >Shivering in Michigan > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 01:17:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:14:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ethics and format Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 04:21:50 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I don't see a big difference between using a grinder > and rubbing two pieces of glass together to get rid of the rough edges Difference? What does a grinder cost? That's the difference. There's nothing *wrong with using a grinder, it's just not necessary to rely on one. Making the edges of cut glass less sharp requires only a stroke or two of one piece of glass against the newly cut one ... a couple of seconds of time and a lot less money. The experienced cutters here are only encouraging the less experienced to adopt methods and techniques that are helpful, more efficient and lower in cost. The fact that gizmo manufacturers try to make those new to glass think that they must have the gizmos isn't to say that those new to glass are wrong, wrong, wrong to use them. A tool is just a tool. Over-reliance on any tool and an inability to adopt or invent other techniques only cripples the development of a good craftsman. Er ... good craftsperson. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 03:32:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:32:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!ElsieTurqman From: Elsie Turqman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: WinWord conversion Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:31:56 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.113156.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenn This message didn't convert to attachment. But I have deleted others over the past few weeks. I'll just delete whenever necessary. I just wondered what was causing the conversion. Elsie At 05:57 PM 12/16/97 +0000, you wrote: > Glenn, I have a computer question. Why are your transmissions = >converted to word processing files in my "WinWord" Directory(see end of = >this file). I don't have this problem with other mail. > Attachment Converted: D:\MSOFFICE\WINWORD\Reethics >Thanks, Elsie > >Elsie, what does this conversion do at your end? I don't know, is anyone = >else having this problem(?) with my transmissions? Does anyone know what = >may be causing it? > Glenn Spicer > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 04:23:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 04:22:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CColdfeet From: C Coldfeet To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: New product for stepping stones..hurrah! Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:22:20 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.122220.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk See note fron eldondo 1@juno.com. about Diamondcrete product to use for steppings, coasters etc ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 04:44:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 04:44:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: luton.ac.uk!david.outram From: "David A Outram" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: WinWord conversion Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:44:34 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.124434.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: University of Luton Precedence: bulk Elsie Wrote: > Glenn > > This message didn't convert to attachment. But I have deleted others over > the past few weeks. I'll just delete whenever necessary. I just wondered > what was causing the conversion. > > Elsie > > > > At 05:57 PM 12/16/97 +0000, you wrote: > > Glenn, I have a computer question. Why are your transmissions = > >converted to word processing files in my "WinWord" Directory(see end of = > >this file). I don't have this problem with other mail. > > Attachment Converted: D:\MSOFFICE\WINWORD\Reethics > >Thanks, Elsie > > > >Elsie, what does this conversion do at your end? I don't know, is anyone = > >else having this problem(?) with my transmissions? Does anyone know what = > >may be causing it? > > Glenn Spicer > > I've experienced the same problem, however the consensous of opinion within my dept here is that it is something to do with the mail programs used. Within the University we use Pegasus Mail however mail received from outside the university using the Netscape mailer tends to cause us problems when read. David A Outram Network Support Officer University of Luton Email David.Outram@Luton.ac.uk Phone 01582 743242 Fax 01582 489318 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 05:32:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 05:31:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:31:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712171331.IAA13465@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard!!! Is that really you????? And your .02???? pj >Hello to all of the list, a few of you may even remember me (fondly or not, >so). > >anyway............my $.02 may be forthcoming at the least provocation. > >enjoy, it is only glass..............H >weaver51@teleport.com >http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard >enmeshed in the internet >trapped in the world wide web > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 05:45:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 05:45:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:45:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712171345.IAA14171@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk etchics and format... Just one little thing to add. And I don't mean this to sound like a soap box.............................. ...............................................But the artists that are here and inexperienced don't know how truly lucky they are. In the beginning (and I speak about our studio beginning in the 70's) it was next to impossible to get someone with any experience to share anything with you. Most established glass artists were totally afraid of competition and as to sharing any secrets to oh say mixing certain patina's...we'll you wouldn't hold your breath. And a cement recipe???? Well most of the time the answer we got was you just have to use what works best for you.. And design issues???? Well, they just weren't discussed. It was sort of implied that you had to pay your dues. And I think after twenty something years we have. Now in this computer age and the age of the ever so giving.......................I will tell anyone anything they want to know. We have personally helped studios get on their feet. Yes our competition. I don't ever want to see anyone have to go through the hoops we did to find things out. So to those who are inexperienced and feel the experienced are being rough on them Maybe you need to think of where we all came from. And how we learned. And got where we are today. (oops the box is slipping.....................................................) It was not easy. And it was not a hobby. Again this is not meant to flame anyone..................just a personal fact. my best, pj > >I (Glenn Spicer)wrote >> I must agree with LuAnn but am not so sure about Deb's comment. The "soap >box" >> forum for the most part, though often not practical application, seems to >> deal with matters philosophical and ethical in glass (usually of interest >to >> the more experienced members) and I for one would be disappointed to lose >> this part of the forum. >Deb responded >How can you say that it is usually of interest to the more experienced >memebers when the more experienced are all arguing that the inexperienced >can't cut worth a flip since they use a grinder once in a while. What >would >one experienced member learn from another experienced member about that. > Or >do the experienced ones prefer to give the inexperienced a hard time >instead >of telling them why it is a good idea to learn to perfect the art of >cutting. >Maybe in the time that they are learning to cut better they will save the >money on glass wasted by grinding a little. >deb > >Well Deb you seemed to take exception to a very mild response that I made >"not so sure about Deb's comment) with lots of latitude for exceptions, >"usually", "for the most part", "often", "seems". I don't ever recall >saying that "the inexperienced can't cut worth a flip" nor do I recall the >others saying this. I do recall that the experienced members are frequently >giving helpful advice whenever asked. I think that the "why" of learning to >perfect the art of cutting was addressed in a number of ways. I don't think >that the "inexperienced" were singled out for "excessive" use of a >grinder. The whole cutting issue I think got stated, if my memory serves me >right, by the comment > >"You can do so much >more detail with the saw and we do use one but it is >slow compared to han>d cutting....> We are glad we learned hand cutting. > It is worth it." And someone asking how much different people used >grinding and the ensuing conversation got into philosophy. But "do the >experienced ones prefer to give the inexperienced a hard time", leads me to >add to what I said above about the advice given. I have found that student >invariably do better if they are given a little bit of a "hard time" so >long as it is given in the spirit of encouragement. >"when the more experienced are all arguing", that part is somewhat uncalled >for, or perhaps you are ignoring all the contributions that the >"experienced" make. "What would >one experienced member learn from another experienced member about that." >Well experienced members are more often than not teachers and we (I hope >the others don't mind me using the 'we') try to learn from other >experienced glass workers as well as from our students (as a closed mind is >a dying mind) so that we can teach and share better. We used to be the >inexperienced. So let me close in saying that the soap box looks like it's >here to stay, a part of bungi that the inexperienced will have to "put up >with" just as the more experienced will have to "put up with" helping those >who need it. In short, a little understanding goes a long way! >Well Deb I hope that answers your "How can you say" and I hope I haven't >gotten too wordy but ..... > Glenn Spicer >Studio Metamorphoses > > >begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT >M>)\^(AL#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` >M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ >MD 8`@ $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````/0`````` >M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0!33510`&=L >M87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !```` >M$ ```&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`#`!4,`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````2 >M````)V=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;2<````"`0LP`0```!4```!33510.D=,05-3 >M0$)53D=)+D-/30`````#```Y``````L`0#H!````'@#V7P$````0````9VQA >MM`````&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0!33510`&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`````# >M`/U?`0````,`_U\``````@'V#P$````$`````````GE)`02 `0`6````4D4Z >M(&5T:&ECM`0$@@ ,`#@```,T'# `0`!$`!@`G``(`, $!"8 !`"$````R.34X-3E!-D8W >M-S5$,3$Q0D1$.#0T-#4U,S4T,# P, #A!@$#D 8`6!,``"(````+``(``0`` >M``L`(P`!`````P`F```````+`"D``0````,`+@```````@$Q``$```#'```` >M4$-$1D5",#D``0`"`$P`````````.*&[$ 7E$!JANP@`*RI6P@``;7-PM9&QL``````!.251!^;^X`0"J`#?9;@```$,Z7%=)3D1/5U-<;W5T;&]O:RYP >MM:DX[?= 1O=A$15-4``#"@ ``$ ```"E86:;W==$1O=A$15-4```6````4D4Z >M(&5T:&ECM````%@```%)%.B!E=&AI8W,@86YD(&9OM"IX5UJ996"MU]Q'1O=A$15-4`````!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% `````'@`? >M# $````4````9W-P:6-EM'@`($ $```!E````22A'3$5.3E-024-%4BE74D]414E-55-404=21457251( >M3%5!3DY"551!34Y/5%-/4U5214%"3U541$5"4T-/34U%3E142$4B4T]!4$)/ >M6")&3U)5349/4E1(14U/4U1005)4+ `````"`0D0`0```&P/``!H#P``N"L` >M`$Q:1G4_#LK;`P`*`')C<&M3P'W`J0#8P(`8V@*P'.$970"T7!R<3(``)(J"J%N;Q)0(# !T(4!T#8/H# U >M,#04(?,!T!00-'T';0*#`% #U/L1_Q,+8A/A%% 3LACT%-"O!Q,"@ *1".8[ >M"6\P&M_Z90XP-1P*'2$MKR>Y&_0GXK\F3RH?*=TI7R>/*U0Y#E ?+J0P`2@C, `"@G-T>>IL!Y!H">!T >M```34 /P4&1C=&P*L5PR6&&89&IU,7 %$&=H!4([%C(,`6,)P#)@`S!S;GQE >M>!M,:!V.6 !0#.;OPPP-&0H`#= !* +@&DTYF)A%Q!D`B UH#5&YS'0,Y [ >MD2 Q,3,.4#:?_S>O.+\`43G\`* T;CQ_/8;_,20/P#Z//Y] KPY0.>]##]M$ >M'SVS,P*"$Q!C-F!+H9,SD#VP=&DYD"!$`1"H875L!4!0"L!A"<#@87!H($8" >M(38D)4#H9FDM#Y X`4 Y,% SZTM37)_,[]*GTNF3]!.D 40`C M0T\P`V$Z(%1O5[!3*'5B:@60=%>P1&'H=&4Z >M-B0V3_]1#U(?_U,O5#DQP#VC#B%+H3JV#E";56]6?E(Y@1M-UEO6G];CUR=.0\O7;\/D&EP"-!B"K!T./])^@]41A!?OV#&:@!AT M0O'DO >M3T!M:;,YU5N:W@AE1721S&@ >M;@.@4W -X'UBDGUXTG@P>'!Q40& ;O]8, !@"?!-H'T``@$UX%Y2+F4`\'T` >M,8!P'H!<=ND(D'=K"X!D:T""\@3PYP= *%&"U'IK#E .`'$B]SV"A-4"$&\% >M0A )DT-X -@M#P$@?\&'@(DV14U!2>!,+D1/5( @%Q!X<-LU(6=R> % @5%N,= :\'N*U$XT >M8WYQ$P(`@ 60;/YV0:%&T YP->"-8@&0`"#_C?*#07U!`<&-81;@#W ``.=& >MT S0`9 @+GW$C7:$P?^.(4YP>,".CX^?D*\/P$;0;P6!DD^37Y1O;&M 1M!L >M]Y(/EL^7U2F0W"5 E:^:C_&7Q&(@* *1FZ^-HUE0_YE?GA^?+Z _C=!C$*&" >MCE__HN^C_Y#<* "ACZ3]ZS7L* >MA;)TBS*PM,R&-(V)K;6NO@R!?QWV `Q!8H6%]2:TCN@\]NQ\@?TJ][[[_N_(I=W\#8%C >M`I"V?[>/N)^YHSYJ(+VP;;3A($[1"> @0P/PP@`@3'5!?W%B_V=0Q^"(`!-0 >M!4"(X,F@"'#/$X !H&=!3A%B)P0@!:":;7TR+E? ,= @(HC@QT\`"H4&X'@B >M( J%QV#W@<%](,U2(,(`$X $8,?!N0JQ="S-\0A@M3 @B/%_"?#)8Q=P`-!- >MT(/AQ^!P_PM0T%%-T (@SM 7$(;@!"#^=,G S-M`Q"(T=.QT&.!8&X@%R#4-+,19PM@!!$H_;3@=0= ;3#/4=5!TV$'D/\%0-'0 >MS-?.!,H!-7""L B!OFY_T#4@!X &T&(!*=2#W[VPS<("(,@Q"&!L-2#98/?2 >M@ 0`T*%OUJ(U(-'1T^%_$X#7600`SH/68LX"S6,NO\/OQ/_&#[FOP>^[PS3* >M@BX@UN';@+ A9-Z&>TBWW^#*X .1>0A@R:!AUE#_XN!8L-5 YM$$(-7_UP/7 >MW__8XMZ/WY_@K^&SV3'*H--R_GMBV+I?OWEX2<%0'T0!4#:H `@3R#_F" /0 4@R: +@'_0S?+64/^TX,H1U7!7 >M$02!VE'T(;,1SY@@[A"(,M$(P!]^_U4\:\!!0S>')P&=-XO$/\W'_ >M%N';X0=QU4$Q<#V1]T;=P?]GX&=Q\)*&X.X!UE#F]/3A_X8`-2#K@#V0V_/Y >M,]'1V)'_$%#KH,WSW77RX4W0#W#>=OV]('G;`;,1S@(`X_"VUE#_[[+Y(_!S >MR<#RXME@TU+T1/\6M9W 1`/91_';*H.H/,T9Q[^M?[&_A_^,--"A@O! /K7]NT!"R$)\1KQ*_$\_C >MMU?_`E'E<1E/%#UI<'S1&]\:/__D`N11YB/1@=O4O,!&H/I!_7_0<-$2T<*8 >M(!Y/'U^[\.PV(&'Q"/!MO4 U(.2$_]Q1YJ/'@6)QL;%.8",?)"__>J#+L,EY >M(O\<[VEQ]H#*/W^Q\)P0*J\HCR4AR$3<,'1_RM#6<8<1+D\O7RF"`U!UO[ P >MS;,QORNO++(B!W,G/[\UGRR%SM WOSC/'<,QR["?.F\[?QW#Y"#G52(L/0__ >M/A\=PU;@/.]!'SQGS<]"S_=#WS\6SM BSV- #T=_0BG_T7-&?TJ_';0E,)# >M61!J,/]-+TX_]H TOU"?3Q*]L&"!W_*Q8>+D<8/A"T)Y\'=,S_M2WQW#-T*_ >M5T].Q_]?\GG_6/]:#UAU\RI8XEVO7K_V@/_/P/S#O;!5)MRV!@KV&_+,!J`%128Y@?\-7Z7].![[+Y@&5Q=;]]0>>A_P$.,@+0%X!FC-#] >MQ^!D@O#T(>X25--TP"'0_F1EGV:O'?)E?VZO'='#,>^]L-3A?K#PJ"(#$M,5+_"6D%/]: <#]Q3QX`Y" &9?\-,FQ1A2#^,'OQ]<2.(/C3^]9Q#4!Y96%4 >M5G*^\4O,L/_(0(P1\^+5@/WB711V7W%^^T*016(B(@+5L/\1S+#THO_6M?L]_W\*P;_++@NX0OF_ 4'AW`X#G8/3 28,O_X0_%2 LT8<_B$^%0G*TB:]_ >MBK^)4@/0R9&\P-O!21!I?=: ;26!T9#:, CPW%!R_U3@RM !`;4321 -LMRO5?C&^-?Q4@/-",4G:U\&;N,I)ODW\V\#ZQL94/EA_?E%/E%Y>OF+\5`C)8 >MTYK/^YO?B4-9YC'EXF-1R;''H/QC:)U/GE^)&I3OHB^7#_^D;Z*NZ0.P,+S >MO4#(1,X"_]M0Y<#9PGVP_-*"(_?!R0+]`U1SW##EPMWZX_KT\V\%R!!G3WL(^QGY0FA4]2K>^TW[ &_YJ/MY^)!QN [Z/5@:K3^2/O >MV0&M@;,G]G%)YP/S) -0[T]2N8^ZGYSD(,C `%#)L'\!`-IB;6%KH^6QH,+; >M(6;__I$N`73AU!"&$?2A`% -YO^_3\!?%.11Q,7?QN\5$4CPW]G"_1,!0/!C >MD=!N5.';4-\B4X["UJ%TT=/&>M7]1OTL9=%]8_UT__Q_-8[]H?TL;\[_W^V[_"/X9_3`O\/`!^23^0_ >M_]MFY]\43F+@.D/J3Q1.*:#]^2%DD*,BHGE0(I+V(":C_\Q0%^ L\@N!^X;T >MP.R?[:_\,3,V\&QEY8*MHO(?\R[_G1!P'_7_\^1C@'P@"X&!(/YURP-\,48` >M-#'$,7G@^%#_&- M`&M!8U$*58^!",?TL_\.9ZO `U&"8_>/^)_T`#S4__]/ >M^,_G#P'_`)TJ$LV #D+_D*"L%/V4!'\%C_>&J,SQP:1C0==/FD2T@M9R$QDB#0GPDOB0<5;1:P_C>)8!,O#@_T`/],(-NO$[\4QFS2196I >M0>8[]ZE!55(/D&?+HA5?%F\4V?\:WQOO20%\$T8RK#/"4? C__IP54+FP8$A >M'1\>+_0`,("O21!%<73Q?"!PD*!YG_'_:H(2<&,1R[)CULOQ$E&KT?\WM:4@AOR+/] !BX&VOYRF?(\-]@&UA;8 K#RP?_RJR3U(M_P+.9]#B[S$/,A9W >M%4\SKS(65WPB7] U<&3Y#UUF:2/@$( 00#F"$*__$;\U7S9O,C3"@FE/@4"\ >MX_]JL9'@RN%D4S[_;3+Q58\@_S5//4_STX5A'0]$;\J@M@E5@2'])C_](`T%O:E6I(W0`_) *TJ QOT#Q'X#O`*#@:D.JQ"CYX>_-L.6T >M9%54=&V"T9"R@B#?5<3QSTOO1^*V,"=3WU3OWT@"?;!63U=?5?,I'X"0(?_O >M@4 Y00]3SUG/1_&=$+QA_WF0OJ)M@&I2OI%K\&Q!D*#W7"0,$/KVM`')P_U$08I]CKU^R>1*1P,V!:=+G4L*L08*09'G+LE*R91__9B]DLELPH)%\ >M$ZKQH")0(_W*XW,#X:NQ_'.^($A?:F^_1^+*T,3$[X%"4.7/9/=O]V]_1^+3 >M(%-;HE*1AB%GTO]YTLQ0:.-\$W+?<^](`,@@3:HS;R2@J\!O> <1;]YKD* 0 >M0&" OP$GD*!!(?OO8X\!>9% @I ?XX)AJ]#]!T!I)TAW+W@_2 #L4.8<3ZG@ >M)@'Z`^^!(G"KX77_>?"IXL'@.Z)G8A@_@,]]S_]^WT@`-12%CW\/Q%"!^(?/ >M_XC?AW-[03J04U1U\O @WE#_WX#FP;\1^=!V0<,POM#L?_^+ST?B1:#]]_IQ >MS#%[X,53K\RQWY']\0MEI-$96+O^=)19/!!O7!S6*!.<23AOY<_FO^61S4_GW^65DBLDO]/L23B=F&A >M'Z(OH)FD_Z8._W#!O7)1-?GD4G+,P4]3>F#_OJ)HT*<_J$^6D-,A)M&V0?\P >M+ZS_D;,/73HO.S^N[Z__7C5((:[?M4^V4D?^4&[]0'!3"T#FL"&OMZ^6@0:P >M_[$_LD^S7[G_NP]U(/L1S(#T($W\<&&#<\\`Z2@*EQB >M3&MM8(#Z@5]-\*!L$D3,8&%]PN9]```!R' #`! 0``````,`$1 ``````P" >M$/____] ``M````1@`````#A0````````,``H (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!"%```` >M`````P`%@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````4H4``+<-```>`"6 "" &```` >M``# ````````1@````!4A0```0````0````X+C ``P`F@ @@!@``````P `` >M`````$8``````84````````+`"^ "" &``````# ````````1@`````.A0`` >M``````,`,( (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!&%`````````P`R@ @@!@`` >M````P ```````$8`````&(4````````>`$& "" &``````# ````````1@`` >M```VA0```0````$`````````'@!"@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````-X4` >M``$````!`````````!X`0X (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#B%```!```` >F`0`````````>`#T``0````4```!213H@``````,`#33]-P``O>Z% >` >end > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 05:54:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 05:54:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:54:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712171354.IAA14553@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> I don't see a big difference between using a grinder >> and rubbing two pieces of glass together to get rid of the rough >edges > >A tool is just a tool. Over-reliance on any tool and an inability to >adopt or invent other techniques only cripples the development of a >good craftsman. Er ... good craftsperson. > > >Albert > Ok hows this scenerio............date due commission.....................almost completely done except............... for grinding those last pieces. And POOF!!! Grinder dies. Call supplier and he says sorry its Christmas...............don't have any left...............probably will send them in January or February. If you didn't know anything but using a grinder. What would you do? Forget about completion date? Call the client and tell them your grinder broke? I don't think so.........you would find a way to finish the work. I know thats a stretch but it is to make a point.................you really should learn to crawl before you walk...............its good for the soul. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 06:05:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 06:04:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!TifStyOrig From: TifStyOrig To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:54:38 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.135438.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk One of the many things I enjoy about this group is reading about the tips that folks share to make our craft/art more efficient and exciting.......here are a couple I'd like to share regarding sore fingers and plant buddy rods: 1) Stephanie Hanson, from Stained Glass Treasures, told me about using the sec'y rubber finger tips for grinding - so I tried her method and no more cut fingers. I simply wrap my finger tips with one or two layers of finger tip gauze (depending on how much room you have under the rubber tips), then slip on rubber finger tips that you can buy at Office Depot, and it works like a charm. You don't need to bother with gloves either. They can be re-used too. Also, it helps to make a light pass with the piece of glass on the grinder all the way around the edges before doing final grinding. 2) You can save on the expense of buying rods for plant buddies by using your metal clothes hangers. Just snip off the straight part of the hanger. It is galvanized, but if you flux the tips, or steel wool and flux the tip, you can tin it with solder and use for a rod. It's straight, sturdy, won't easily rust and FREE. Diane Manchester Tiffany Styled Originals Delray Beach, FL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 06:09:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 06:09:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: plant buddies Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:50:25 -0600 Message-ID: <199712171406.IAA26922@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk - >I wondered if you'd mind sharing the patterns for those cute little >diddies?? I do stained glass and have lots of plants. I'd love to have >some of the patterns. If you'd be willing to share them. >diamonds@juno.com > >Thanks >Mary Austin >801 Merry Lane >Greenwood, In 46142 > >I appreciate your help Mary, Like Theresa and others said just use any small pattern that you like. The variation is soldering the brazing rod to the sun-catcher and putting it in the plant pot ...not so much the design. Our own personal choice was the bug form. In keeping with the holiday spirit, and since you sent your snail mail address and I'm going to the post office shortly, I'll put the little diddie in an envelope and mail it to you. But I'm not going to clean it or anything :-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 07:32:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:30:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: LEIsbury's Sore Fingertips Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:32:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199712170958.DAA03271@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > A helpful hint when I have some grinding to do. First of all, I > wrap gauzetape around my fingertips and thumbs. Then, I put my rubber > gloves on. Gauzetape can be picked up at any drug store for about 2 > dollars. (It is usually used to wrap injured sprains and strains, which I > seem to do often!! No matter how hard I try not to...thinking of changing > my middle name to Klutz...LOL) This prevents cut and/or slice fingers and > relieves my tendency to press too hard into the grinding wheel. I don't do a whole lot of grinding, but when I need to grind a small piece or a good bit off of any piece, I use two thinbles like my grandma used when sewing, but I like the rubber finger idea even better. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 07:49:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:48:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:45:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.54517.0> References: <<1997Dec17.35110.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LElsbury wrote: > > I took a beginners glass class - it has turned out to be the best decision of > my life. I absolutely love working with glass. I want to learn all that I > can and be the best at it. I was taught to cut glass but maybe not by the > best person or with the best technique because I also was taught about > grinders. As I sit here typing this with very sore, cut fingertips I can > honestly say the second best day of my life will be when I don't need a > grinder at all (I do use one a whole lot less than 4 yrs. ago). I wish there > was some way I could be shown on bungi a better cutting technique so I could > stop using my grinder (I don't see a big difference between using a grinder > and rubbing two pieces of glass together to get rid of the rough edges). > Given the condition of my fingertips I have asked Santa for a new grinding > bit. If all of this makes me a crafter rather than a professional, an artist, > etc... in someone's eyes - so be it - I know who I am, what I am, and what I'm > about. I'm not looking for, but will accept, other's approval, but if I > don't get the approval so be that too. I joined bungi to learn from others > and to offer help if I could. I am absolutely in AWE of alot of the bungians > - with their apparent skills and works that they do. I hope that I will be > doing glass longer than the most veteran bungian, but I also hope that I learn > everything that person(s) knows. In short, I guess I am being extremely > selfish about what is written on bungi. I don't want to know you personal > feelings about another person's character but of his/her FINISHED product. If > it's not quality work I want to know why and I can't see how using a grinder > plays into this. I don't see how a person "spamming" plays into this. I know > from the private e-mail I have received that other's support this opinion. I > would also be extremely happy if this all drops now and we GET ON with glass > issues. Just my opinion - LuAnn (LElsbury@aol.com) > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass generally cutting just takes time and skill (and a strong wrist). i use a grinder if i need to have something fit more exactly, to shave something that's to difficult, or risky to groze. and to smooth things out. it also makes the foil stick better. i noticed, however, that the main people sort of apposed to the grinder, are people who use came not foil. the foil people (like me), go for the grinder. because the glass points are sharp, and can't be hidden with foil. with lead, you can hide a small mistake, if any of the pieces are sharp, it is'nt a problem; because lead does'nt care if it's being poked. and a rough grozing is all what's needed and when working in foil, you want an even solder line (in width too). if there's a lumpy part of the glass that was cut, this will show through. the grinder and saws are a modern part of stained glass now, use them. your not in the dark ages any more... :) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 07:50:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:50:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:46:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.54658.0> References: <<199712170415.UAA25106@mail1.teleport.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > > Hello to all of the list, a few of you may even remember me (fondly or not, > so). > > anyway............my $.02 may be forthcoming at the least provocation. > > enjoy, it is only glass..............H > weaver51@teleport.com > http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard > enmeshed in the internet > trapped in the world wide web > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass also be sure to get the uncoated rods. for brazing flux coated rods are used. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 07:52:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:52:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Request for Some Advice on Basic Cutting Skills Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 09:34:10 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.173410.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk First of all, before I go into my question I would like to say thank you = to all the more experienced members so willing to teach us. I completely= agree with PJ that the inexperienced are *extremely* fortunate to have = such a generous group of artisans willing to help us learn. As one of = the inexperienced, thank you! LuAnn said, " I wish there was some way I could be shown on bungi a better cutting = technique..." I have often thought the same thing. (Actually, my dream vacation would = be to go work with a stained glass artist for awhile, cementing those win= dows, sweeping floors, unpacking crates of glass just to get some quality= instruction and exposure to their methods!) I took a short beginning = stained glass class at an art & hobby shop. So, my only exposure to clas= s-cutting methods was through that teacher. I just recently rented an = instructional video on class cutting (Vicki Payne's) to see if I could = pick up any more pointers. I have some questions after watching the vide= o: My instructor told us to NEVER run over an existing score line with our = cutters because it would ruin the wheel. Therefore, we would score, then= break, score, then break, etc. In the video Vicki Payne often scores = an entire piece, running over existing score lines, and then breaks it = all out. Is it okay to run over score lines? Is it done in large scale = operations because your time is more valuable than the cost of a new whee= l? Am I wasting a lot of time unnecessarily? Also, she said that it is important to always break the glass by hand whe= never possible, rather than using running pliers or breakers. Why is thi= s? Since then, I have been trying to break my pieces by hand. Some glas= s will break nicely, others I can't seem to get to budge. I was taught to tap the back of the score line with the end of the cutter= before breaking also. But, in the video she never once mentions runnin= g the score line by tapping the glass. She just grabs it and snaps it = in two (always making it look so simple). Should I only tap after it doe= sn't break by hand? Are there rules on when to run the score line by tap= ping it? I realize perfecting your glass cutting skill comes down to one simple = word - PRACTICE. But, now I'm not sure if I'm even practicing right. = What methods do you use to score and break the glass? Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 07:53:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:52:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Clarification on Grinder Question Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 09:47:02 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.17472.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have been observing the dialogue on "to grind, or not to grind" and = wanted to get some clarification. Are those that say a grinder is not necessary talking about both leaded = and copper foil methods? I thought that if you did the copper foil metho= d you had to at least grind the edges slightly so the copper foil would = adhere better. Are those that are saying cut it acurately and be done = with it talking about copper foil as well??? I thought I recalled a conversation some time back where Howard was discu= ssing the quality (or lack of) of some lamps produced mass market and tha= t they would fall apart because the pieces were never ground. And becaus= e of this, he would not even consider repairing one of these lamps. I = may not be recalling this conversation correctly, but since Howard is bac= k (and welcome back, by the way) he can correct me if my memory is faulty= From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 07:53:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:52:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Grinder Fingers Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 09:54:46 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.175446.0> References: <<1997Dec17.35110.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LuAnn, Are you doing a light grinding of all of the sides of the glass before = your final grinding? I find that if I grind all sides first before a fin= al grinding with any pressure I don't cut my fingers. (At least while = grinding, that always comes while moving glass sheets around, digging thr= ough scap boxes, etc.) Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 08:02:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:58:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:54:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.55412.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > I don't see a big difference between using a grinder > > and rubbing two pieces of glass together to get rid of the rough > edges > > Difference? What does a grinder cost? That's the difference. > There's nothing *wrong with using a grinder, it's just not necessary > to rely on one. Making the edges of cut glass less sharp requires > only a stroke or two of one piece of glass against the newly cut one > ... a couple of seconds of time and a lot less money. > > The experienced cutters here are only encouraging the less > experienced to adopt methods and techniques that are helpful, more > efficient and lower in cost. The fact that gizmo manufacturers try to > make those new to glass think that they must have the gizmos isn't to > say that those new to glass are wrong, wrong, wrong to use them. > > A tool is just a tool. Over-reliance on any tool and an inability to > adopt or invent other techniques only cripples the development of a > good craftsman. Er ... good craftsperson. > > Albert > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the thing is, is that there not gizmos. people way back when, may say why use a glass cutter, when you can light a string on fire. so far the grinder saved my fingers, saved on bandaids. it makes the project look more professional. really, if you went into a store, and compared to pieces, which would you buy? the one with the smooth tinned edge? or the one with the hilly, bumpy edge? if that's the look they wanted, fine. but generally a grinder is a good investment. a bandsaw is also pretty good, though not used as much (by some). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 08:04:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:03:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:00:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.6013.0> References: <<199712171354.IAA14553@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > >> I don't see a big difference between using a grinder > >> and rubbing two pieces of glass together to get rid of the rough > >edges > > > > >A tool is just a tool. Over-reliance on any tool and an inability to > >adopt or invent other techniques only cripples the development of a > >good craftsman. Er ... good craftsperson. > > > > > >Albert > > > Ok hows this scenerio............date due > commission.....................almost completely done except............... > for grinding those last pieces. And POOF!!! Grinder dies. > Call supplier and he says sorry its Christmas...............don't have any > left...............probably will send them in January or February. > > If you didn't know anything but using a grinder. What would you do? > Forget about completion date? Call the client and tell them your grinder > broke? I don't think so.........you would find a way to finish the work. > > I know thats a stretch but it is to make a point.................you really > should learn to crawl before you walk...............its good for the soul. > > my best, > pj > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass oh sure, basically everyone should learn every technique. learning to cut glass is key. frinding is mainly an aid for fitting, and foiling. a bandsaw would'nt replace a glass cutter, but it can do tricky cuts. so learn how to groze, and use a carborundom (sp?) stone. also belt sander, sandpaper works (off of the machine, or unpluged anyway). i have a small glass file, for certain things. though this situation would'nt really come up with me, (i have quite a few grinders), and in a pinch the ringsaw can be used as a grinder. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 08:09:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:08:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Grinder Fingers Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 09:08:23 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1997Dec17.175446.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > LuAnn, > > Are you doing a light grinding of all of the sides of the glass before = > your final grinding? I find that if I grind all sides first before a fin= > al grinding with any pressure I don't cut my fingers. (At least while = > grinding, that always comes while moving glass sheets around, digging thr= > ough scap boxes, etc.) > > Dawn i've found that i went through periods of learning. when i first got a grinder, i was cutting my fingers a lot. after a while, i noticed that i was getting cut less and less, and now, it is very odd if i get one at all. after a while, you tend to learn where the glass is sharpest, what it looks or feels like, and tend to either avoid it, or start there when grinding so that the cuts simply don't happen as often. learning exactly now much pressure against the grinder bit you can do before getting cut is also on the learning curve. charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 08:10:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:09:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Installation of Window - Metal Frame Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 10:15:39 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.181539.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk After the holidays, I believe I'm going to take some time to do a project= for myself. I would like to do a piece for one of my windows at work. = The problem is the Courthouse has these industrial metal window casings.= The window I would put it in is approximately 4' by 5'. The lower port= ion of the window opens, but the 4' x 5' top window is a fixed window tha= t does not open. How do you install a piece that size when the window casing is metal? = Screw clips into the metal? (Shhh...don't say anything and they may not = notice....) Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 08:26:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:25:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Request for Some Advice on Basic Cutting Skills Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:21:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.62134.0> References: <<1997Dec17.173410.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dawn wrote: > > First of all, before I go into my question I would like to say thank you = > to all the more experienced members so willing to teach us. I completely= > agree with PJ that the inexperienced are *extremely* fortunate to have = > such a generous group of artisans willing to help us learn. As one of = > the inexperienced, thank you! > > LuAnn said, > " I wish there was some way I could be shown on bungi a better cutting = > technique..." > > I have often thought the same thing. (Actually, my dream vacation would = > be to go work with a stained glass artist for awhile, cementing those win= > dows, sweeping floors, unpacking crates of glass just to get some quality= > instruction and exposure to their methods!) I took a short beginning = > stained glass class at an art & hobby shop. So, my only exposure to clas= > s-cutting methods was through that teacher. I just recently rented an = > instructional video on class cutting (Vicki Payne's) to see if I could = > pick up any more pointers. I have some questions after watching the vide= > o: > > My instructor told us to NEVER run over an existing score line with our = > cutters because it would ruin the wheel. Therefore, we would score, then= > break, score, then break, etc. In the video Vicki Payne often scores = > an entire piece, running over existing score lines, and then breaks it = > all out. Is it okay to run over score lines? Is it done in large scale = > operations because your time is more valuable than the cost of a new whee= > l? Am I wasting a lot of time unnecessarily? > > Also, she said that it is important to always break the glass by hand whe= > never possible, rather than using running pliers or breakers. Why is thi= > s? Since then, I have been trying to break my pieces by hand. Some glas= > s will break nicely, others I can't seem to get to budge. > > I was taught to tap the back of the score line with the end of the cutter= > before breaking also. But, in the video she never once mentions runnin= > g the score line by tapping the glass. She just grabs it and snaps it = > in two (always making it look so simple). Should I only tap after it doe= > sn't break by hand? Are there rules on when to run the score line by tap= > ping it? > > I realize perfecting your glass cutting skill comes down to one simple = > word - PRACTICE. But, now I'm not sure if I'm even practicing right. = > What methods do you use to score and break the glass? > > Dawn > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass don't run over a score line twice means: the same cut. if your cutting a straight line, don't run over it again twice (like cutting with a knife). the glass won't break there, and the cutter will dull. you can go over the score, cross wise though. you can make many cuts, then break. or cut and break. mainly cut as many lines as you think will be good. the score can heal itself over time, (never try and break a score more than a week or more old). a few minutes might make the difference. so when i cut something, i make make 1-10 scores, then quickly remove the pieces, before the score has healed itself somewhat. breaking by hand, gives you more control. after a while you'll be able to feel or sense where the line broke (internally). the running pliers don't have as much control, but are better suited for straight lines. the ringstar, though, work very well on curves (but you need practice using them). i tap the glass only when necessary, if it's a deep cut, or if i feel the glass is'nt going to come out of a tightish space, i'll tap. but generally the cut won't come out as smooth. whenever i feel i want to practice new methods, i'll use mirror tile. every so often i'll find some at a garage sale. the backing does'nt look good, it's an ugly pattern, whatever. i'll then try out new glass cutters, breakers, saws, techniques on it. you can practice breaking. usally a combination of pulling and bending (slowy). you can watch the score and reflection in the mirror, as it breaks, (the line will refreact the light, or look darker). if you practice that kind of break, your breaking skills will go up. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 08:38:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:37:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinder Fingers Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:34:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.6341.0> References: <<1997Dec17.175446.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dawn wrote: > > LuAnn, > > Are you doing a light grinding of all of the sides of the glass before = > your final grinding? I find that if I grind all sides first before a fin= > al grinding with any pressure I don't cut my fingers. (At least while = > grinding, that always comes while moving glass sheets around, digging thr= > ough scap boxes, etc.) > > Dawn > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass generally i'll do that if i have heavy grinding to do. or if it's a ripple, or heavy textured glass. mainly because the extra ripples are very sharp. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 08:42:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:42:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: kaleidoscope questions Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:38:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.63837.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk i'm having problems trying to figure out a few things. maybe someone here know's the solution. #1. how is the oil filled chamber made? i've seen many of these, so it must be possible. mainly what is used, how is it sealed ( i figure epoxy). #2. is there a program out there that can give me reflection imagry. for example if i entered in a particular triangle or shape, i want to be able to see what repeat pattern i get for that particualr shape. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 09:04:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:00:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison From: ItsAlison To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:46:31 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.164631.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-16 18:44:56 EST, you write: << How can you say that it is usually of interest to the more experienced memebers when the more experienced are all arguing that the inexperienced can't cut worth a flip since they use a grinder once in a while. What would one experienced member learn from another experienced member about that. Or do the experienced ones prefer to give the inexperienced a hard time instead of telling them why it is a good idea to learn to perfect the art of cutting. Maybe in the time that they are learning to cut better they will save the money on glass wasted by grinding a little. deb >> I agree with you Deb; and i hope everyone will put their flame throwers down and respect that we all have different ways of doing things. Let those who want to just cut.......go on smugly cutting without the use of a grinder . And let those who prefer to grind.......grind on! Someone has to keep those grinder bit merchants in business. Some of us may sit on the sidelines, and quietly listen......and as a result try to improve our craft (or did we decide it was an art?). Others will never listen....and powdered glass will be flying everywhere. Its just a matter of preferences and skill levels. I dont mind it when debates are treated lightly around here......but it is so tacky when the tone becomes insulting or condescending on Bungi: and that seems to happen a lot. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 09:07:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:04:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Request for Some Advice on Basic Cutting Skills Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 11:10:25 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.191025.0> References: <<1997Dec17.62134.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike said: > the score can heal itself over time, > (never try and break a score more than a week or more old). a few > minutes might make the difference. You know, I've kind of wondered about this because I acquired boxes and = boxes of scrap glass from someone else. There are many pieces in there = that were already scored, and the scores were made *at least* 4 years ago= . When I come across one of these pieces, I go ahead and break it on the= score before putting it back in the box, and it works. (I'm breaking = it to avoid accidentally using a piece with a score already in the middle= of it.) Now, granted, it looks like she must have used a pretty heavy = hand in scoring. Perhaps this is why the glass will still break at least= 4 years later. Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 09:08:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:07:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: oregontrail.net!dterry From: dterry@oregontrail.net (Douglas R. Terry) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: WinWord conversion Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:14:23 -0800 Message-ID: <199712171717.JAA21132@oregontrail.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk i get a note at the end but don't know what to do with it. drt Glenn, I have a computer question. Why are your transmissions = >converted to word processing files in my "WinWord" Directory(see end of = >this file). I don't have this problem with other mail. > Attachment Converted: D:\MSOFFICE\WINWORD\Reethics >Thanks, Elsie > >Elsie, what does this conversion do at your end? I don't know, is anyone = >else having this problem(?) with my transmissions? Does anyone know what = >may be causing it? > Glenn Spicer > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 10:04:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:03:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: more.... on scoring Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:49:33 -0800 Message-ID: <199712171803.KAA02786@smtp3.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Not ALL glass scores the same! The same glass made at different times does not always score the same. People on TV only tend to show only their best (who is to judge). I did the Oregon State Fair as a "working craftsman" (BFD). I had a pile of window glass pre-scored and when I was feeling more evil than my standard demeanor (usually brought on by an "oldtimer" or a person who "knew" much more than I did), I would take out a piece of "pre-scored" and apply scissors to the score line, and with a twist of my wrist "run" the score....yes, Matilda, I DID see the guy cut glass with scissors! Most of my beginning students have the tendency to press too hard and are proud of themselves when the score line is deep and frosty looking and throwing off flakes of glass... NOT GOOD! I encourage anyone to practice scoring on scraps of "real" colored glass and work at scoring as light as possible. With practice and experience you will get better. Years ago (prior to carbide cutters), if you went over a score, it flattened out the mild steel wheel of the cutter and left a "dotted line" on the next score, so we pressed harder, went over it again and so forth. Guess what the score looked like and the wheel skipped even more, now try to run the score. I sometimes, run over an existing score line and have found it will not harm the carbide cutters. As for tapping small irregular pieces, I tap to separate the "piece" from the parent sheet or strip. I have pliers that I swear by to finish the job, remove deep inside curves and assist in "pulling off" long skinny pieces. If you are doing straight-edged pieces, why put a "bump" on the edge where you tap, when I assume you are looking for the tightest fit possible. Runners should do the job without tapping. As for grinding, once you master cutting and are consistent, adjust your pattern to allow for your style. Most people tend to score larger than the pattern (outside the lines), so cut away the pattern line on the glass. I have been brought lots of projects for repairs and many imported pieces, and mostly the failure was in the adhesion of the foil (perhaps due to no grinding of the un-even edge) and the lack of solder. I fit my pieces as tight as possible (using a grinder) and fully bead both sides. I do very few repairs as in most cases, my price for fixing garbage or beginner work is MUCH more than the original cost. I am old, cranky, eccentric, fairly good at what I do and can get away with a lot of attitude after 16+ years of dabbling in lampshade making. A'int you all glad I am back.........................enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 10:34:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:34:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: more.... on scoring Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:34:22 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk A'int you all glad I am back.........................enjoy, H YES! YES! YES! Although I'm (by comparison) pretty new to the list and mostly a lurker, I've read the entire archives and feel like we're regaining a long lost friend! (Plus I have a nostalgic fondness for Orygun and Oregonians.) Kaye Stuck in the Midwest ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 10:46:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:45:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grinder Fingers Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:37:45 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.183745.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk There are several reasons my fingertips are cut - LOL. I need a new bit, I have been doing tons of suncatchers (xmas) and various other custom things. I have used the gauze, latex gloves, etc... I love the feel of the glass and the control I feel I have when going without anything on the tips (probably psychological - lol). Because I have been overwhelmed with suncatcher orders and have not been as careful cutting as I should be and therefore there has been more to grind to get a good fit using copper foil. Thank you all for your concern - it is heartwarming to know there are many positive people on bungi, probably more than less. I just got angry when I read a post that obviously showed someone's feelings got hurt when there was absolutely no point or purpose in doing so. Merry Christmas Everyone!!!!! Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 10:51:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:51:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:48:23 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.184823.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Mike you may have misquoted Albert on the"big difference" issue - my point was does rubbing two pieces of glass together make one a professional and using a grinder make a person a crafter. In my opinion the issue is getting the rough edges off and not so much the technique in doing so. Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 10:56:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:55:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grinder Fingers Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:53:26 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.185326.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Thanks Charlie for your constructive comments - I really appreciate them. I need a new bit for one thing but I was rushing with all the xmas suncatchers, it was very late, i was tired and therefore careless with cutting so I had more to grind - LOL. LuAnn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 10:59:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:58:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:56:03 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.18563.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Hangers - I have tons - would never have thought of them - thank you so much. LuAnn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 11:06:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:05:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: more.... on scoring Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:12:18 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I am old, cranky, eccentric, fairly good at what I do and can get away with > a lot of attitude after 16+ years of dabbling in lampshade making. > > A'int you all glad I am back Yes, Howard, we are. This place hasn't had a resident crank of your caliber since you left. You're a breath of fresh air, you bet. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 11:13:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:13:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:10:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.91036.0> References: <<199712171345.IAA14171@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This is always such in interesting group, even when things do get a little out of hand. I appreciate everyone's advice. I am mostly a lurker and a hobbiest. I'll admit there've been times when I wanted to put on a black armband so I'd be recognized (ha ha) as a hobbiest, or write "Hobbiest Question" in the subject box, so those who didn't want to stoop to my level wouldn't have to bother, but overall I've gotten many great responses to my questions and I think I've only used the delete key on some sarcastic remark one time. When I read pj's comment about artists being in competition with each other, I wanted to mention something here. A friend of mine has taken some glass classes from an art studio. They do all sorts of mediums, and I didn't even know they taught glass there until recently. When my friend showed me a finished free-form (these teachers don't believe in patterns) piece she did, I commented on how nice the copper patina was, and she said she had used her teacher's patina from her own secret recipe. The teacher doesn't sell the stuff and won't give out her recipe. I would have been interested, as I've used the bottled copper patina, and have given up on it because of poor results. This kind of thing is enough to put me off from going in to this place. On the other hand, the guy at my local glass shop has not been doing this that long, but he's willing to share everything he knows with me every time he learns about something new, goes to workshops out of town, whatever. I frequently walk in for a small item and end up staying for 45 minutes. He'll always stop and show me what he's working, show me some new glass he got in, show me how he does things.... He definitely gets my business for going the extra mile. As for "art", one reason I enjoy glass so much is because I can be as artistic as I want. I can make my own patterns or not. Just choosing the glass can be artistic to me. It seems like if I use a pattern, I'm always changing it to suit me, so I feel like that's adding my artistic touch too. (I cook like that too.) I guess this got a little long, but I want to thank everyone on this list for their contributions. I'm always reading and learning, even if it's something I may not use at that moment. Some posts I save for future use because "I might try that one day." I've gotten some long, detailed posts, and I'm amazed that someone will take the time to sit down and answer a question for me so thoroughly. Jerri On Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:45:11 -0500 (EST) artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) writes: >etchics and format... > >Just one little thing to add. > >And I don't mean this to sound like a soap >box.............................. > >...............................................But the artists that >are here >and inexperienced don't know how truly lucky they are. >In the beginning (and I speak about our studio beginning in the 70's) >it was >next to >impossible to get someone with any experience to share anything with >you. >Most established glass artists were totally afraid of competition and >as to >sharing any secrets to oh say mixing certain patina's...we'll you >wouldn't >hold your breath. And a cement recipe???? Well most of the time the >answer >we got was you just have to use what works best for you.. And design >issues???? Well, they just weren't discussed. >It was sort of implied that you had to pay your dues. And I think >after >twenty something years we have. >Now in this computer age and the age of the ever so >giving.......................I will tell anyone anything they want to >know. >We have personally helped studios get on their feet. >Yes our competition. I don't ever want to see anyone have to go >through the >hoops we did to find things out. > >So to those who are inexperienced and feel the experienced are being >rough >on them >Maybe you need to think of where we all came from. And how we >learned. And >got where we are today. (oops the box is >slipping.....................................................) It was >not >easy. And it was not a hobby. > > > >Again this is not meant to flame anyone..................just a >personal fact. > >my best, >pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 11:18:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:18:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: more.... on scoring Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:11:10 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.191110.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Howard - I'm new to bungi and to glass, at least compared to you. From your imput and obvious knowledge, along with what appeared to be a sense of humor - I think I'm going to like you - I'm glad your back!!!! Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 11:25:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:25:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city.lethbridge.ab.ca!scottd From: "Don Scott" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: more.... on scoring Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:26:09 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.4269.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >A'int you all glad I am back.........................enjoy, H I for one am glad you are back. Your postings have been a welcome source of practical information. Thank you for sharing your information with us in the past and I hope that you will remain part of Bungi for a long time to come. Sincerely, Don Scott Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 11:27:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:26:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: more.... on scoring Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:19:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.91916.0> References: <<199712171803.KAA02786@smtp3.teleport.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Most Definitely Howard! I joined the list a couple of years ago, and I've read your posts in the archives. I've missed you, and I don't even make lamps! Jerri > >I am old, cranky, eccentric, fairly good at what I do and can get away >with >a lot of attitude after 16+ years of dabbling in lampshade making. > >A'int you all glad I am back.........................enjoy, H > > >weaver51@teleport.com >http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard >enmeshed in the internet >trapped in the world wide web > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 11:57:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:56:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:59:01 +0000 Message-ID: <199712171424.IAA03509@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Hangers - I have tons - would never have thought of them - thank you so much. > LuAnn I just tried the coat hanger idea (again). I still cannot get the solder to adhere. I've tried steel wool until the metal is bright and shiny silver, I've tried heating with a torch until it was red hot to burn off the coatings then using anywhere from a touch to a flood of flux. The solder still will not stick to the coat hanger. I'm welcoming any ideas on this...I have a closet full of coat hangers that would just love to be used for something. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 12:01:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:00:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ethics and format Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:03:15 +0000 Message-ID: <199712171428.IAA03514@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > When my friend showed me a finished free-form (these teachers don't > believe in patterns) piece she did, I commented on how nice the copper > patina was, and she said she had used her teacher's patina from her own > secret recipe. The teacher doesn't sell the stuff and won't give out her Anybody got a recipe for copper patina? Please share it if you do. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 12:03:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:02:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: more.... on scoring Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:26:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.92646.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard said..... A'int you all glad I am back.........................enjoy, H I read every word with relish...listening to a "cantankerous old pro" :). Yes, I'm glad you're back, Howard. I always enjoy your posts and learn much from them. Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 12:05:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:03:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Installation of Window - Metal Frame Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:02:36 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.20236.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-17 12:26:41 EST, you write: > but the 4' x 5' top window and you don't think they'll notice!! LOL I have repaired a few old windows set in metal frames and you will treat it like any other window when you remove the old glass you will see how it has the area to hold the pane whether it is stained glass or plain glass deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 12:23:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:21:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:15:36 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.201536.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Jerri: I have had that same experience around where I live - I hardly think I'm a threat to the teachers/shop owners with secrecy seems to be an issue. What point is there to having the copper patina if they aren't willing to share it or sell it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 12:26:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:24:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Request for Some Advice on Basic Cutting Skills Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 14:29:59 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.222959.0> References: <<1997Dec17.62134.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike said: > > don't run over a score line twice means: the same cut. if your cutting > a straight line, don't run over it again twice I probably should have been more clear. What I meant to ask is if it is = harmful to the cutter to run *across* an existing score? Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 12:35:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:34:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Plant Buddies Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:34:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.83444.0> References: <<199712171424.IAA03509@eve.corp.ccti.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Don McDonald wrote: > I just tried the coat hanger idea (again). I still cannot get the > solder to adhere. Hi Don and other bung-ites, When I made plant buddies (long, long ago), I used clothes hangers too. Instead of soldering the hanger to the mini-suncatcher, you might try bending the hanger wire like a candy cane and make a little loop on the hook end. Then solder a little loop on the mini-catcher and hang the mini-catcher on the wire. I like these better than the stationary soldered ones....they DANGLE! Enjoy the "sparkle and flash" of the season (when else can we put flimsy techni-colored tinfoil in our midst and call it "beautiful"!). Shirley Grapeland, Tx. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 12:40:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:39:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Installation of Window - Metal Frame Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 14:45:48 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.224548.0> References: <<1997Dec17.20236.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I have repaired a few old windows set in metal frames and you will trea= t it > like any other window when you remove the old glass you will see how = it has > the area to hold the pane whether it is stained glass or plain glass > deb Deb, It's a new building and I'm sure they don't want me to remove the glass = (and I definitely don't want to donate my piece to the courthouse when = I leave), so I was trying to find a way I could place it on the inside = of the glass and fasten it securely. I thought someone may have done suc= h an installation. As far as them noticing, I just didn't want them to raise a stink about = a few screw holes in the window casing. But I talked to a friend this = afternoon who told me there is something I can get to patch the holes whe= n I take the piece down. Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 12:41:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:41:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: more.... on scoring Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:38:59 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec17.203859.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-17 13:22:26 EST, you write: > A'int you all glad I am back.........................enjoy, H > Boy am I glad you are back and I wasn't even here when you left but it is refreshing to here nice calm informative stuff deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 12:49:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:48:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Installation of Window - Metal Frame Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 13:48:26 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1997Dec17.224548.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > Deb, > > It's a new building and I'm sure they don't want me to remove the glass = > (and I definitely don't want to donate my piece to the courthouse when = > I leave), so I was trying to find a way I could place it on the inside = > of the glass and fasten it securely. I thought someone may have done suc= > h an installation. > > As far as them noticing, I just didn't want them to raise a stink about = > a few screw holes in the window casing. But I talked to a friend this = > afternoon who told me there is something I can get to patch the holes whe= > n I take the piece down. i was putting together some trophies last night, and they came with some incredibly strong double sided adhesive tape. they also came with some kind of double sided adhesive pads, about 1/16" thick, so string that i was unable to pry off once i laid down the two pieces i was gluing together. you might try a trophy shop for some of this. you could just glue it to the existing glass. if you handled the adhesive some, i would guess the normal skin oils would make it be somewhat weaker so you could get it off. i'm sure it will come off with a razor blade, or you could ask the shop how to get it off. since there isn't much weight that it has to hold if you have the piece resting on the bottom of the casement, this product should be sufficient. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 13:37:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:36:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cape.com!sjb From: "Susan Jordan Bennett" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Reusable Patterns Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:32:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.113248.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Some time ago I asked for advice on making patterns that can be reused. I received a number ideas varying from transparencies to laminating. I have learned of another method. After tracing the pattern on craft paper, spray it and saturate it with acrylic clear coat -- for example Krylon. Let the pattern dry for at least 24 hours and then cut out the pattern pieces. I've tried this, but have only used the pattern once at this point at this point. It seems to work okay. Has anyone else tried this before? Susan Jordan Bennett Shoestring Shipyard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 13:45:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:44:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Installation of Window - Metal Frame Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:52:02 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: Dawn > To: glass@bungi.com > It's a new building and I'm sure they don't want me to remove the glass = > (and I definitely don't want to donate my piece to the courthouse Take a look under "What's New?" at http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ The clips there are meant to accomplish exactly what you're after. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 13:53:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:53:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:52:14 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.115214.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerri- Thanks for your heartfelt post and please don't ever feel you can't ask a question because you're a hobbyist or whatever. Speaking as a professional, if I didn't want = to be on this forum with the great mix of people, I'd leave and join a list of "professional glass shops only". Every pro = is on this list because they have an opportunity to share with pros and students alike. I have learned lots and from = many. And for students, what an opportunity! To be able to yack with so many artists and professionals and other students! You ought to be grateful for the = time everyone has spent answering your questions, even if you didn't like the answers! Where else = can you get such a diverse collection of answers and ideas? And daily, no less! When I post a criticism of a tool or technique, it's because in my situation and experience it isn't effective. If my comment helps you, fine. If you'd like to use the delete button, fine too. It all depends on where you're going with your work. Lots of folks have posted their URL's here and have some pretty dynamic sites. Visit them, and if you like someone's work, listen to what they have to say - you'll probably learn something. If not, ignore them. It's that easy. And maybe it would be a good idea for all of us to imagine what bungi would be like if we split into two groups - Professionals Only = and Hobbyists Only. Might get kinda boring fast! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 13:54:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:53:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Request for Some Advice on Basic Cutting Skills Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:52:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.115221.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dawn- Come spend your vacation = with us sometime! And speaking of apprentices, = our young man from last summer is now in Homer, Alaska and may be interested in continuing his glass = education if anyone up = there needs a good hand. Email me off-bungi if you would like more info. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 13:56:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:55:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Installation of Window - Metal Frame Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 14:55:28 -0700 Message-ID: References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: >> From: Dawn >> To: glass@bungi.com >> >> It's a new building and I'm sure they don't want me to remove the glass = >> (and I definitely don't want to donate my piece to the courthouse > > Take a look under "What's New?" at The clips there are meant to accomplish exactly what you're after. well, those require drilling a hole. another thought i had. i had pretty much the same situation in my office when i wanted to display a piece: large glass window with metal framing. i soldered normal rings on the back of the frame (using 1/2" zinc) and hung it with fine chain from the dropped ceiling supports. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 13:59:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:58:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ethics and format Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:05:12 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Mike you may have misquoted Albert on the"big difference" issue - my point was > does rubbing two pieces of glass together make one a professional and using a > grinder make a person a crafter. In my opinion the issue is getting the rough > edges off and not so much the technique in doing so. Lu Ann Professionals use grinders, Lu Ann ... in fact some of them here have said so. They just do so very rarely. Grinders're slower than good cutting technique and they're more expensive than a carbide cutter, a good eye, years of experience, etc. If you use a grinder, it doesn't make you a bad person or a bad crafter/artist/artisan ... the point of the discussion (from my point of view) has been to encourage you and others to not think that grinders are the only ... or even the best ... way to get glass to the size and shape you need. I've got $5 that says an experienced pro could outcut someone else with a grinder any day of the week ... and have accurately cut pieces of glass that would need no grinding at all. But you might still be the better human being. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 14:00:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:58:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ethics and format Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:05:12 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > secret recipe. The teacher doesn't sell the stuff and won't give out her > recipe. I would have been interested, as I've used the bottled copper > patina, and have given up on it because of poor results. This kind of > thing is enough to put me off from going in to this place. No, that's not the proper spirit ... and you're quite right to take your trade elsewhere. Seems to me that it's retailers like that who complain loudest and longest that they should be "protected" by the distributors and manufacturers, then shoot themselves in the foot by charging people to *not give them the information they need. > On the other > hand, the guy at my local glass shop has not been doing this that long, > but he's willing to share everything he knows with me every time he > learns about something new .... He definitely gets my business > for going the extra mile. Yes, that's the proper attitude and it's not surprising that you'd prefer his shop to the other one. I remember having university professors who'd act like the "bad" store above ... I'd just leave the class, go to the registrar and drop it, then sign up for a different professor. I felt like I was paying the money (well, I was!) and I deserved to get what I paid for. Same thing in your case, I'd say. My 2c worth. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 14:09:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:09:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:52:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.115232.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Not true, Mike Savad - this = studio does copperfoil and lead or combinations thereof. We don't use a grinder very often. = It takes too long and when you work on commission, time is an important factor. Lots of commissions can have 200-300 pieces of glass easy - imagine having to grind each small piece, wipe = off the wet, and then re-write the piece number, all before one can even start foiling! No thanks- my fingers are used to getting = a few cuts... I know where the bandage box is! It's all part of my job. Look at it from a pro- fessional point of view. Michael can cut 200-300 pieces of glass a day (and he's not the fastest, some pros can cut 400... maybe even more). I can foil all the = glass he can cut in a day. (I don't use one of those gadgets, they slow you waaay down!) Can you imagine how much additional time it would take to grind all that glass? Yikes! We'd have to raise our prices just to cover the grinding costs! = As far as the saws... well, I've given my opinion about them on this forum before, but here it is again. If I can't make the glass cut a certain way by hand, then I won't cut it that way with a saw. Why? Because the glass = doesn't want to be cut that way... it has limitations... and, yes, maybe the saw can pull it off, but sometime in the future you may have real problems with stress fractures. I = don't want my customer calling me in three years.... you get the picture! Better to put your money into a good design class so you are able to = draft a window with the peculiarities of the medium in mind. It is, after all the limitations of a medium that give it its unique characteristics. Stained = glass tends to be a very stylized art form. It is not an exercise in super- realism. Saws are fine for cutting out fancy shapes used in fusing and slumping or for drapery glass (which we rarely use since it's such a bear to cut by hand... and = IMNSHO it's ugly!). Otherwise, I'd stick to the hand cutter. And, in no case = should a serious student be using a = saw. That's right up there with not allowing a newbie to use irridescent glass until they show some design ability! (oh, boy, I can hear the responses to this last line already!) Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 14:27:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:26:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:17:40 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.61740.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: ItsAlison [SMTP:ItsAlison@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 8:47 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ethics and format In a message dated 97-12-16 18:44:56 EST, you write: << How can you say that it is usually of interest to the more experienced memebers when the more experienced are all arguing that the inexperienced can't cut worth a flip since they use a grinder once in a while. What would one experienced member learn from another experienced member about that. Or do the experienced ones prefer to give the inexperienced a hard time instead of telling them why it is a good idea to learn to perfect the art of cutting. Maybe in the time that they are learning to cut better they will save the money on glass wasted by grinding a little. deb >> I agree with you Deb; and i hope everyone will put their flame throwers down and respect that we all have different ways of doing things. Let those who want to just cut.......go on smugly cutting without the use of a grinder .I dont mind it when debates are treated lightly around here......but it is so tacky when the tone becomes insulting or condescending on Bungi: and that seems to happen a lot. Well Alison Just like Deb you seem to miss my point as well as your own. In the same paragraph you say put down the Flame throwers then you go on to say "let those who want to just cut.....go on smugly cutting without the use of a grinder" I would say that grouping those who want to just cut as being "smug" seems to boarder on being "insulting or condescending" in your own words. Deb as I have already mentioned in another letter said also that "the more experienced are all arguing" again using that "all" which basically "flames" a group indiscriminently. When I respond to a letter I go back and read the relevant letters and quote the writer. "arguing the inexperienced can't cut worth a flip", I have yet to find where this phrase was used, only the phrase saying that "An electric glass cutter and an electric grinder is no SUBSTITUTE. " and I would hardly consider this insulting or condescending. So what I'm trying to say, (again), is that there is a teach/learn situation here and there is a need for a few to read and think before they write. Bungi is a real cross section of people, it keeps it colourful, and no matter what the topic we should try to be polite, even when we disagree, and avoid grouping and misquoting. I for my own part will try to track down the computer "noise" that some are finding after my letters (and I am trying). Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C,6`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`@ $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````/0`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0!33510`&=L M87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !```` M$ ```&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`#`!4,`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````2 M````)V=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;2<````"`0LP`0```!4```!33510.D=,05-3 M0$)53D=)+D-/30`````#```Y``````L`0#H!````'@#V7P$````0````9VQA M&DS-@% %M !0!% ;TIT!9!T$($@+1J" M3ST%$&<+@ = != 'D'-A_&=E&H,8%AGD&;$+$QGF8&DM,30T`4 9,#$<.# ! M0 S0'B-B($85`V$Z#(-B#^!)=',*01DP2PT($0%D&4&T 20(#$"-R10,3DY-R X M)#HT)7!!32)G5&^-'[=G"V $$$!B=1$#(>$#8C)/ ED30Z-3! 15/*5"10>0A@('<%$!H`@Q^P&"D\ M/"!(;P?@SF,#D3%"&Y!Y("H0*O".(#&@-! $('5S=0= \FPSL&]F-! ", 20 M!Y#Y!4!T;S/!+U $8 EP*?#\>' &<0GP)) +,1@R+N'W!X DP00@=S8``Z U M_S$DP"(A!Y%+44$P9U,%L;\%H#]1 M!/ )\%A#(+%")[+_*> J M;#B!,S2O9E0UP3.2&8-I#^ B0'"_8]E7464/9C]G3VA?(H$ROW9!(#!!!#.( M"< (8' ZE/^"/V5U>N(DP#J2@4>$8H<7_W.G!N +$3]SBQYPSW'7AQ?W/_%[ MICTR9&.!>1)Z\5K =V%C!T!KX60SL > `C!I_T'13B$NL40%@=%4HAN03D#_ M.@%N@C/B&8*!L#B/.9^0EO]:T0MQ-'$ZEX%'-+&'%T!!?P]P5& G8"HP-+.! M1UY3<_^'%S\"B-$U(5A !/)I\2,!_S300)! P#A16L!@(G&A-;+_6)%4A%K MA %K,&[0*F.3YU&?$X?]CPC70'? J@3@Q:Z(J($AAWU[ )V!;(7KQ/L%D)% "(%\T MT9;BJ[4SD3J7(H%&0>\#H*-!&B %$&-6]5""17)_*H$#D:](/S4T440`!@!5 M@D(Q`$E4551%I8/_AV*'$"IRAZ9*LH2B`B `D-\_8JMCCQ]QUT"04XG!,^)\ M22=YP5T`4\4SD210*/V9DRDD4#11.M8V44VC2X'M#W O0T0`D'0TH)0";3/_ MF%^<@JQ_STA54+'96O0HB)^9R(A M7;'M)-$B1 `$`&6'$'-4<''_.<.JLEA3`8 DT7IAH\:Y4/>SXUYPN%4I=48, M,!?<%K)?"A&!%```!`````0`````````>`$. "" &``````# ```` M````1@`````XA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( `````# )``TT_3<``&9X ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 15:28:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:27:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Request for Some Advice on Basic Cutting Skills Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:23:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.132350.0> References: <<1997Dec17.191025.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dawn wrote: > > Mike said: > > the score can heal itself over time, > > (never try and break a score more than a week or more old). a few > > minutes might make the difference. > > You know, I've kind of wondered about this because I acquired boxes and = > boxes of scrap glass from someone else. There are many pieces in there = > that were already scored, and the scores were made *at least* 4 years ago= > . When I come across one of these pieces, I go ahead and break it on the= > score before putting it back in the box, and it works. (I'm breaking = > it to avoid accidentally using a piece with a score already in the middle= > of it.) Now, granted, it looks like she must have used a pretty heavy = > hand in scoring. Perhaps this is why the glass will still break at least= > 4 years later. > > Dawn > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass in general, it can be done, different glasses heal at different rates. but in any case, you have to be more weary of breaking an old score. or for that matter, someone else's score. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 15:38:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:37:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Request for Some Advice on Basic Cutting Skills Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:32:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.133239.0> References: <<1997Dec17.222959.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dawn wrote: > > Mike said: > > > > don't run over a score line twice means: the same cut. if your cutting > > a straight line, don't run over it again twice > > I probably should have been more clear. What I meant to ask is if it is = > harmful to the cutter to run *across* an existing score? > > Dawn > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass to run over a score line, like drawing an X, no. going over the same line in the same direction, yes. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 16:23:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:22:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:16:27 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec18.01627.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-17 17:02:08 EST, you write: << Grinders're slower than good cutting technique and they're more expensive than a carbide cutter, a good eye, years of experience, etc. >> I doubt there is any argument to that Albert and are not quite sure why you made the statement except it's wonderful advice. I never thought grinders were the only way but given the lack of experience my teacher had (found this out after the fact) I have come to depend on a grinder but only out of ignorance to other ways that I have now learned through bungi. There is no way anyone in their right mind would take your bet. I do have two questions for you - how much time does it take before a person is considered "experienced" and is considered a "pro"? "But you might still be the better human being" - tacky, real tacky - I thought you were above this Albert. I will still try to learn everything I can from you - about glass. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 17:00:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:00:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Howard Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:58:10 +0000 Message-ID: <199712180100.BAA00975@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard & Elaine!!! Welcome "home"!! Nice to have you back!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Howard wrote: Hello to all of the list, a few of you may even remember me (fondly or not, so). anyway............my $.02 may be forthcoming at the least provocation. enjoy, it is only glass..............H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 17:02:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:01:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:00:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.15043.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk "but you might still be the better human being". Why is this tacky? It sounds like a compliment to me or at the very least a self-deprecating remark. ?? Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 17:17:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:17:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: experience, pro, hobbiest and time wasted Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:16:44 -0800 Message-ID: <199712180117.RAA06622@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Main difference between a "pro" and a hobbiest should be the ability to deduct business expenses from your income taxes. IMHO, a "pro" is one who can and does make money at the endeavor. Depending on skill, determination, choice of path, one may achieve "pro" status long before your experience level is obtained to make your professionalism effective as to the use of time and material as well as getting a decent wage (another can of glass chips) for your product. While we (me) are on the subject, I USED to offer unlimited time for my students and over the years have found that all the time spent with them on "their" wasting of my time was not worth it. I guard my time more carefully, sell them what they want, and move them along. Often, they will shop elsewhere (usually a LONG ride) or from the pseudo wholesale catalogers, which is certainly ok, and then ask for my time and assistance, and point out that they spent the same or more at the wholesalers. can anyone here guess my attitude toward that....MY you are learning already! enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 17:18:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:17:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison From: ItsAlison To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:53:33 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec18.05333.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-17 15:47:51 EST, you write: << I just tried the coat hanger idea (again). I still cannot get the solder to adhere. I've tried steel wool until the metal is bright and shiny silver, I've tried heating with a torch until it was red hot to burn off the coatings then using anywhere from a touch to a flood of flux. The solder still will not stick to the coat hanger. I'm welcoming any ideas on this...I have a closet full of coat hangers that would just love to be used for something. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology >> Don, When I first heard about using hangers my first thought was that they would probably rust when in contact with damp soil.....it was just a thought. But since you are having such difficulty with getting solder to adhere.....I'd tend to go with the braising rod instead. Anyone have any thoughts about the issue of rusting?? ~Alison~ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 17:26:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:26:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:20:30 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec18.12030.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk If I misunderstood this I certainly opologize - this is one more example of how comments can be misunderstood/misinterpreted. These are the type of comments that are easily mistaken and in my opinion have no place on bungi. What kind of human being any of us are does not appear to be glass related. I have usually appreciated the imput Albert has had about glass and certainly mean him no more offense than he meant me. I should have simply ignored the statement he made about the better human being or at least given him the benefit of my doubt. My sincere opology. LuAnn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 17:43:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:42:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!MsChatee From: MsChatee To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:36:54 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec18.13654.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Dani just a quick question about the comment you made on newbie's using irridescent glass......why? I'm new and I've used it with no problems at all. Am I doing something wrong:-) (or just lucky?) Just wondering! Back to lurking....Bye. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 18:12:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:12:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Plant Buddies Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:14:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199712172040.OAA03786@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Enjoy the "sparkle and flash" of the season (when else can > we put flimsy techni-colored tinfoil in our midst and call > it "beautiful"!). Mardi Gras in 2 months, at least here in New Orleans! Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 19:17:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:16:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ethics and format Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:16:34 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > "But you might still be the better human being" - tacky, real tacky - I > thought you were above this Albert. I will still try to learn everything I > can from you - about glass. Nothing tacky was meant, believe me. Try reading it again and assume that the best intentions and motives were behind it. One of the difficulties of text-only messages is that they lack tone of voice, facial expressions and body language. Sorry if you were offended. As to human-ness and all that, as far as I'm concerned, that's what art and craft are about: expressions of ourselves as people. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 19:17:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:16:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Is it just me? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:16:34 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk My, everyone seems very sensitive and touchy. If we can't talk about ourselves as people while we also talk about glass and our relationship with it, connection to it, and what it means to us (that's philosophy, I guess), but must bear down and talk nothing but technique, well heck, we might as well buy some book and take the phone off the hook and have no communication with anyone else. If there are to be no human interchanges along with the exchange of information, I'll have no interest in the exchange at all. On the other hand, my days are very long and it's late, so perhaps it's just me. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 19:56:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:55:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: unforgettable.com!shorelineglassworks From: NCScouter To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message (from Howard &Elaine) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:55:03 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.15553.0> References: <<199712170415.UAA25106@mail1.teleport.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd., Roanoke Island, NC, USA Precedence: bulk Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > = > Hello to all of the list, a few of you may even remember me (fondly or = not, > so). > = > anyway............my $.02 may be forthcoming at the least provocation. > = > enjoy, it is only glass..............H > weaver51@teleport.com > http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard > enmeshed in the internet > trapped in the world wide web > ---- Bless my soul!! Howard & Elaine, does this mean that you ARE back??? I surely hope SO as your input has been sorely missed, and I'm going to have some S/G lampmaking questions for you myself after the Christmas holidays are finished... Je t'aime parlez vouz... =C1 bient=F4t! (Pardone moi pour la tr=E9s bad grammatics en mon tr=E9s rusty Francais!)= V T Phelps Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. ("Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore!") ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 20:00:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:00:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire From: "Doug Scale" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: more.... on scoring Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:00:28 -0500 Message-ID: <199712180405.XAA28995@sleepy.ebtech.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > > > > I am old, cranky, eccentric, fairly good at what I do and can get away with > > a lot of attitude after 16+ years of dabbling in lampshade making. > > > > A'int you all glad I am back > Welcome back Howard. We sure are glad you returned. It's been so calm around here we've had to pick on poor old Albert ;-} Doug Scale ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 20:06:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:05:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:05:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.18528.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi MsChatee! It's terribly easy to be "seduced" by irridescent glass - it has an almost otherworldly quality. It has to be used cautiously so as not to create the schlockiest window in the history of glass! And that's easy to = do with this glass, believe me. It doesn't work with the other non- irridized glass you might be using, = but against it. It's the first thing you'll notice in the window if it's over-used. It takes a good design, some knowledge of other glasses that partner well with it, a good deal of judiciousness, to pull it off. Irridescent glass is like the actor who tries to upstage the rest of the cast. A good director will keep him in his place so the audience can enjoy the whole play. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 20:14:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:13:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Is it just me? Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:05:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.18519.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk "Tis the season, Albert! Maybe we're all just overworked. I personally like the more human aspects of this forum... even when folks get a little cranky. And when you think about it, given the demise of civility in our society, we really do disagree quite well amongst each other. Only one incident of foul = language that I can remember in the past year or so. And Glenna, = bless her heart, took care of that in a New York minute! So what are we all grumbling about - we're a pretty classy bunch. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 20:31:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:30:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: unforgettable.com!shorelineglassworks From: NCScouter To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:29:57 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.162957.0> References: <<199712171424.IAA03509@eve.corp.ccti.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd., Roanoke Island, NC, USA Precedence: bulk Don McDonald wrote: > > > Hangers - I have tons - would never have thought of them - thank you so much. > > LuAnn > > I just tried the coat hanger idea (again). I still cannot get the > solder to adhere. I've tried steel wool until the metal is bright > and shiny silver, I've tried heating with a torch until it was red > hot to burn off the coatings then using anywhere from a touch to a > flood of flux. The solder still will not stick to the coat hanger. > I'm welcoming any ideas on this...I have a closet full of coat > hangers that would just love to be used for something. > > Don M. McDonald > Web Design > Corporate Communications Technology > ---- I'm hoping that Lee-Bo, Albert, or someone will correct me if I'm D&C about this, but I believe from my experiences with attempting to solder steel that one must use a different type of flux and solder which is actually called for in that process known as "brazing". I didn't bother to learn more about it as it was conveyed to me that this process was mostly used in jewelry-making (not my usual cuppa...) I was also informed that the materials used for brazing (special solder & flux) were even more expensive than it already is for stained glass. (OUCH!) Good luck - you'll need it! I never DID get the steel parts soldered together... My kind and tolerant spouse welded them for me instead... [BTW, before anyone asks - D&C means "Dazed and Confused".] Ciao for now! V T Phelps Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 21:24:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 21:23:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com (MR BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:20:15, -0500 Message-ID: <199712180520.AAA19472@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Don writes: I just tried the coat hanger idea (again). I still cannot get the solder to adhere. I've tried steel wool until the metal is bright and shiny silver, I've tried heating with a torch until it was red hot to burn off the coatings then using anywhere from a touch to a flood of flux. The solder still will not stick to the coat hanger. I'm welcoming any ideas on this...I have a closet full of coat hangers that would just love to be used for something. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology Bob writes, Most metal coat hangers are made of steel. Steel, even if cleaned to a bright shine, will not chemicaly combine well with tin/lead solder. If you do get it to stick rust will likely fail the bond shortly. To use coat hangers you might try wrapping the last two or three inches with closely wrapped copper wire. The SG piece can then be soldered to the copper spiral which most likely will be mechanically attached to the steel wire. My preference would to be to use brass brazing rods that are available rather cheaply from a welding supply store. They are strong and look good even when they green patina with the elements. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (God does not need our advice on what is good for us.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 22:01:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:00:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Is it just me? Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:42:41 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec17.194241.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk I sub to 3 mailing lists, about diverse subjects. 2 out of the 3 are going through a bad case of 'shoot thy neighbor'. Maybe many are stressed out over the impending holidays? I agree about off topic posts. People are interesting, not just because they like to cut themselves with pretty glass. Albert Lewis wrote: > My, everyone seems very sensitive and touchy. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?' "Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 22:02:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:01:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:01:07 -0800 Message-ID: <199712180601.WAA20305@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks to all of you for remembering me and taking the time to post. Be assured I have not mellowed. As an aside, although Elaine's name appears as well as mine, she is in NO circumstances to be tarred with brush used on me. She has better judgement than to get involved. May the New Year bring to you what you want, and leave you wanting just a "bit" more! Be well, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 22:23:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:23:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Is it just me? Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:07:18 -0800 Message-ID: <19971217221759.028b6a36.in@seaside.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: Albert LewisIs it just me? > Date: December 17, 1997 2:16 PM > > My, everyone seems very sensitive and touchy. If we can't talk about > ourselves as people while we also talk about glass and our > relationship with it, connection to it, and what it means to us > (that's philosophy, I guess), but must bear down and talk nothing but > technique, well heck, we might as well buy some book and take the > phone off the hook and have no communication with anyone else. > > If there are to be no human interchanges along with the exchange of > information, I'll have no interest in the exchange at all. On the > other hand, my days are very long and it's late, so perhaps it's just > me. > > A Well Albert I agree that we should be involved in human interchanges (as long as we maintain civility) and I enjoy your companionship on the Bungi, it makes me feel as though I am not alone in philosophizing about relations whether it be glass or people. I think that there are several others at least that feel this way (hi Toby, I mean Elisabeth) and I don't think that there are many if any that really mean to show disrespect or negativity but some that tend to take offence where it was not meant because of the lack of expression that can be conveyed through the net, and react rather than think and act. The web is still a relatively new way to communicate and has advantages and disadvantages. Color, age, sex, cease to be so important, I even got confused about Toby! But as you said "One of the difficulties of text-only messages is that they lack tone of voice, facial expressions and body language. " Hang in there. Glenn Spicer The Studio Metamorphoses ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 23:07:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:06:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: yahoo.com!glswrks From: bonnie norman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: plant buddies Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:06:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1997Dec17.1567.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len, I have been making these for the past 3 yrs now. Theyare very popular at the craft fairs. Besides the usual butterfly, I make a caterpiller, grasshopper, and a dragon fly. Do you do any others? I'm always looking for something new to add to this line. Thx. Jean --------------------------- ---len alcamo wrote: > > This might be of interest to folks who make suncatchers > > I have been rummaging around in my old stuff and found a few of my *plant > buddy* prototypes. These were essentially small 6-8 piece copper foiled > ditties.... cute multi-color insect forms in side view with the wings up > and a segmented body............ they were soldered to a lenght of bronze > brazing rod which is nice and stiff and easy to solder. The marketing idea > was to stick one, or better yet several :-) down into the pot of a nice > plant and have it positioned in an attractive light catching manner. > > Sold a bunch of these at one point and I was wondering if they ever became a > standard hobbiest item. If not they might be worth reviving....can never > have too many variations in the craft and novelties market. > > Len > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 17 23:18:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:18:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: oregontrail.net!dterry From: dterry@oregontrail.net (Douglas R. Terry) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Is it just me? Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:25:43 -0800 Message-ID: <199712180729.XAA07505@oregontrail.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> My, everyone seems very sensitive and touchy. If we can't talk about....... well here's a story for you ;-) A story just in time for Christmas... Not long ago and not far away Santa was getting ready for his annual trip...but there were problems everywhere... four of the elves got sick, and the trainee elves did not produce the toys as fast as the regular ones, so Santa was beginning to feel the pressure of being behind schedule.... then Mrs. Claus told Santa that her mom was coming to visit...this stressed Santa even more... when he went to harness the reindeer he found that three of them were about to give birth and two had jumped the fence and were out heaven knows where...more stress. And then, when he began to load the sleigh one of the boards on the sleigh cracked and the toy bag fell to the ground and scattered all the toys...so,frustrated, Santa went into the house for a cup of coffee and a shot ofwhiskey...but he found that the elves had hit the liquor cupboard and there was nothing there to drink...and in his frustration he dropped the coffee pot and it broke into hundreds of little pieces all over the kitchen floor...he went to get the broom and found that mice had eaten the straw it was made from. Just then the doorbell rang and Santa cussed on his way to the door...he opened the door and there was a little angel with a great big Christmas tree. And the angel said: Santa, where would you like to put this Christmas tree? And that, my friend, is how the little angel came to be on top of the Christmas tree.... :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 03:07:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:06:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike From: Mike Simpson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: pliers Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:59:23 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <199712181059.KAA00311@jackel.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I wonder if anybody can recognize some old grozing pliers from a description. I am not certain that they were made for this purpose although I was told that they were grozing pliers when I was given them. The pliers had a somewhat complicated parallel action with a cross-over mechanism. The jaws, although of iron, were dead soft, the overall length was very short, perhaps 4 to 5 inches. The pliers were nickel (I think) plated and bore no model no, but only the makers name - Hamilton. Although they were not much good for general grozing, they were miraculous at pulling off truly tiny pieces from deep inside curves. I think that the softness of the jaws allowed more pressure to be brought to bear without crushing the glass while the small size gave better control. The soft iron jaws needed frequent filing to keep them straight, about a dozen times in the two years that I was using them, and this bought about their early retirement and eventual disappearance - a sad end to a truly noble pair of pliers. If anybody can tell me where to get another pair I would be very grateful. Mike Simpson. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 06:04:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:02:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: experience, pro, Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:11:58 -0600 Message-ID: <199712181359.HAA27104@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Main difference between a "pro" and a hobbiest should be the ability to >deduct business >expenses from your income taxes. Thats it Howard. Reminds me of an old musican's rub........... .....Whats the definition of a professional musican? .....A person thats got the guts to go up on stage no matter how bad they are Heres a couple more ... Do they have anything to do with stained glass? not much.... It's more about not taking yourself too seriously ....What's the definition of a drummer? ....A guy that hangs out with musicans .....Did you hear about the bass player who was so far out of tune that someone actually noticed? Sorry Mary, I couldn't help myself :-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 06:05:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:04:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 07:18:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199712180743.BAA04166@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > To use coat hangers you might try wrapping the last two or three > inches with closely wrapped copper wire. The SG piece can then be > soldered to the copper spiral which most likely will be mechanically > attached to the steel wire. > Thanks for all the responses that have let me know that I wasn't doing something wrong. I think I'll make a trip to the hardware store and get some brass rods then pick the clothes up off the floor of the closet and put them back on their hangers. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 06:05:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:04:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: citynet.net!hupp From: Zor Prime To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Learning new skills Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:22:47 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.02247.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Gamma Force Precedence: bulk Hi All, I've been watching the fur fly, get smoothed down and fly again. I am beginning to believe a lot of it IS holiday pressure. I'm a lurker and just wanted to tell you my story so maybe all of you great people will know that your input and helpfulness is appreciated. I've never had a class. The only book our library carries ( which is where I got my data) is called STAINED GLASS- A BASIC MANUAL written by Barbara and Gerry Clow. When the book was written there weren't even carbide cutters. But I pretty much have the book memorised. I fell in love with glass and ordered a kit which included QUICK SUCCESS IN STAINED GLASS. That is all the teaching I've had except for you here at Bungi. One of the very first things I did was order a grinder. I was working on an English lantern described in book #1. It has about 160 pieces. And I ground every one of them till I thought my fingers would bleed. Foolish girl that I am. I kind of got my cart in front of my horse. My lantern hangs proudly outside my kitchen door but I will NEVER take that approach again. I have settled down and made suncatchers and panel lamps and avoid cuts that I think would take a lot of grinding for me to make them fit. But I do use the grinder. I'm far from perfect but getting better. One of my greatest pleasures is watching the glass break perfectly. I think I use too much pressure and that I'm trying to cure that one too. My largest problem glass has given me is that it is all I want to do. My family suffers, my business suffers. If I could figure out making a living doing glass, that's what I'd do. But, I think I lost my point, I want you to know that your information is so valuable to me. I don't feel like I'm "odd" or anything anymore. It was wonderful to run into Bungi in the first place and I have learned so much in such a little time. I am no longer frustrated when I run into something I don't have a clue on doing. I can ask a question and invariably someone, or many, answer. Or I can read the files. I am no longer alone. And that means a lot. So thank you all. Please don't squabble if you can help it. ( although I've learned quite a bit from that too) I would hate for one of my "teachers" to leave Bungi and go elsewhere. I am out here thirsting for your knowledge in Tim-Buck-Two. Happy Holidays to All. Kathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 08:06:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:06:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!TifStyOrig From: TifStyOrig To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:59:08 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec18.15598.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk To use the hanger, I just dip in flux, (apply a good amount of flux), and then tin the tip with the solder. Even if you steel wool the galvinization off, you still need alot of flux to tin with the solder. I only tin the tips where I am going to solder to the glass piece. Hope that works....... Diane Manchester Tiffany Styled Originals Delray Beach, FL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 08:09:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:08:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Learning new skills Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:08:59 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Thank you Kathy in "Tim-Buck-Two"! I think yours was a message we all needed right about now. While I tend to be amused by the little bouts of "sensitivity," they can (rarely, thank goodness) get ugly enough to be alarming. Your comments put it all into perspective and bring us back to what we ought to be doing here--sharing both experience and opinion (with humor and goodwill) AMONG FRIENDS. On the verge of holiday sappiness... Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 08:21:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:20:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Howard: Welcome Back! Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:20:16 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971218112016.006c9cf0@pop.netrox.net> References: <<199712170415.UAA25106@mail1.teleport.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Welcome Back, Howard! Your input has clearly been missed -- which you might see if you read the archives! You were very nice to me when I first joined ... indeed, I think you helped me find bungi, and I remain very grateful for that. Sincerely, M.-J. This world, after all our science and sciences, is still a miracle; wonderful, inscrutable, magical and more, to whosoever will think of it. -- Thomas Carlyle ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 08:23:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:22:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Don McDonald and me... the truth revealed!! Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:32:39 -0600 Message-ID: <199712181620.KAA06625@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk With all the decompression currently going on I think it would be a good time for me to clear up a few things. I believe it was my post that instigated the current flury of remarks from the finger-wagging correctness segment that seem to be a presence on all e-mail lists and newsgroups ........... Yech! I said " I think we should all send our lead scraps to Don McDonald, he can use it for ballast to slow down his self-elevation ;-) " This was in response to the statement that Don made... "But I am my own computer wizard" Well I figger what the heck, any self-proclaimed wizard, guru or other miscellanious icon should be able to take a little heat.... no? So in good natured fun I made the above post and included the appropriate smilie... OBTW I attached a list of basic smilies at the end of this post ...IMHO they should be used more often to help with communication in this format. Don's reply was " Nice personal charachter attack. Made me feel really good." Well of course I immediately p-mailed Don to try and explain myself. It turned out that his post was in fact a * test* to get a handle on MY intentions,... tricky :-) . In other words, would these comments cause us to degenerate into a public pissing contest as he put it , or would this little bit of *baiting * be an opener for us to get to know each other off-list. Well it is my good fortune that the latter turned out to be the case. We have posted back and forth a few times and I have to say that I had pictured Mr McDonald completely wrong.... I thought he was a big time techno-weenie that did a little stained glass as a diversion from his left-brained intense reality and was ready to pounce on any opportunuty to segue into geekness.....him being a computer wizard and all. NOT!!! Don in fact is a remarkable individual with and absolutely facinating background (including stained glass). He has my deepest admiration and respect and I am proud to consider him a new friend and would love to meet him someday I have encouraged him to share a little of his background with bungi ......he hasn't said yes....or no I know he is the most humble of gentleman, a trait I deeply respect as a former ego driven maniac, but with his permission and perhaps the list's encouragement I could forward a portion of his bio to the group. How about it Don? :-) So there you have it ...The Truth Revealed... or at least my version of the truth Peace Len :-)Your basic smiley. This smilie is used to inflect a sarcastic or joking statement ;-) Winky smiley. User just made a flirtatious and/or sarcastic remark. More of a "don't hit me for what I just said" smiley. :-( Frowning smiley. User did not like that last statement or is upset or depressed about something. :-I Indifferent smiley. Better than a Frowning smilie but not quite as good as a happy smiley :-> User just made a really biting sarcastic remark. Worse than a :-). >:-> User just made a really devilish remark. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 08:26:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:25:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:25:33 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971218112533.006cf77c@pop.netrox.net> References: <<1997Dec17.35110.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> I would also be extremely happy if this all drops now and we GET ON with glass >> issues. You mean, now that you've had *your* say, everyone else should just let it go? With understanding and amusement, M.-J., who knows how delicious the last word can be! It is good to know the truth, but it is better to speak of palm trees. -- Arabic proverb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 08:27:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:27:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: yahoo.com!glswrks From: B Norman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: experience, pro,/Humor Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:26:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1997Dec18.02637.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk GREAT, Len ! How nice to find a spark of 'smiles' in amoung all the flame throwing. It bears repeating! Jean ________________ ---len alcamo wrote: > > > > >Main difference between a "pro" and a hobbiest should be the ability to deduct business expenses from your income taxes. > > > Reminds me of an old musican's rub........... > > .....Whats the definition of a professional musican? > .....A person thats got the guts to go up on stage no matter how bad they > are > > Heres a couple more ... Do they have anything to do with stained glass? not much.... It's more about not taking yourself too seriously > > ....What's the definition of a drummer? > ....A guy that hangs out with musicans > > .....Did you hear about the bass player who was so far out of tune that someone actually noticed? > > > Len > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 08:29:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:29:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Tinning Steel Coathanger Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:31:41 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.63141.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk One of my first projects was a humming bird and flowers tack soldered to = a metal ring. I had the ring laying around the house. it was steel with = a brass coating on it. Being a novice, I couldn't get the steel hot = enough to do anything but clump and generally make a mess of the solder. = Those birds and flowers ended up as somebody's refridgerator magnets. = I'm not so sure I'd try it even now, a year later. I like someone else's idea of wrapping foil around the wire hanger at = the point of attachment. Linda Campbell Diane Manchester said: To use the hanger, I just dip in flux, (apply a good amount of flux), = and then tin the tip with the solder. Even if you steel wool the galvinization = off, you still need alot of flux to tin with the solder. I only tin the tips = where I am going to solder to the glass piece. Hope that works....... Diane Manchester Tiffany Styled Originals Delray Beach, FL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 09:00:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:59:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Off the Subject (of late) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:59:20 -0800 Message-ID: <199712181659.IAA08219@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At the risk of breaking the current threads.................. Hopefully, the coat hangers have been hung up for awhile. Notice, however that the usage or non-usage of plastic hangers has not been discussed in any depth at all. Are we missing another item which may lead to volumes of communication? Hope we are (at least for a while) done with apologizing, blaming outside influences (holiday[s]), mis-interpretations and she said, he said, you said, we said, or ???????????said, or did not say. Anyone have questions or input about lampshade making or on a broader scale, even glass? Yep, it is still me, and I say....................................................................... enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 09:01:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:00:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: experience, pro,/Humor Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:00:37 -0800 Message-ID: <199712181700.JAA08875@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hey, Norman, get you attributes right....................H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 09:06:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:06:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Is it just me? Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:14:02 -0800 Message-ID: <199712181614.IAA14572@norm.island.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >My, everyone seems very sensitive and touchy. If we can't talk about >ourselves as people while we also talk about glass and our >relationship with it, connection to it, and what it means to us >(that's philosophy, I guess), but must bear down and talk nothing but >technique, well heck, we might as well buy some book and take the >phone off the hook and have no communication with anyone else. > >If there are to be no human interchanges along with the exchange of >information, I'll have no interest in the exchange at all. On the >other hand, my days are very long and it's late, so perhaps it's just >me. > Hey Albert, I think it's not just you...it's the season. I've watched everyone around me get more and more uptight with everything they "just have to do" to get ready for Christmas...Until yesterday I was able to resist this...until I counted the days left til Christmas, and matched them up to the orders I had left..two panels...a heron, a fish; a special order of small things for someone, and a repair on someone's Christmas angel. The last two I took against my better judgement...Add that to having a personal Christmas, and I find my fuse just a little shorter than it should be. Relax and hang it, this too will pass. Besides I rather enjoy the philosophical comments on the web...keeps me thinking!!! Cheers Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 09:12:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:11:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!diamonds From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: plant buddies Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:19:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.61926.0> References: <<199712171406.IAA26922@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len, Thank you so much for all your help. I'm legally blind and work with a magnifying light so any of your help is appreciated. I love doing stained glass although I must admit I put off learning the art until I learned of my sight and other health problems. Thank you again and hope you have a wonderful holiday. Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 09:39:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:38:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fast.net!charles From: charles To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:38:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.73812.0> References: <<1997Dec18.01627.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > thought you were above this ______. I will still try to learn > everything I > can from you - about glass. The original comment must have been misunderstood-I even saw the humor in it! There is a lot more to learn on bungi than just glass. Do you think the professionals on bungi don't learn anything here? I've been in stained glass for about 28 years, I've learned things here and had a lot of laughs with everyone else. Sometimes the laughs were even at my own expense. Stripping out the non-glass related "chatter" would make this as boring as most other internet groups. It is charming to see the human side of others. Charles Warner Warner-Crivellaro ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 10:02:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:59:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Cfrankie00 From: Cfrankie00 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Cutting Glass Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:36:32 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec18.173632.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I'm a newbie myself, but I'm going to venture out into the world of the flying fur!!! (to paraphrase a recent post) Someone recently was asking for tips on cutting glass. I just received a catalog from Warner-Crivellaro and on their glass notes page they had tips for cutting stained glass. This is rather long, so all you "old timers" can just hit the delete button now!!! ;) 1. Stand to cut glass, so that you may see what you are doing and so that you can get the proper pressure from your shoulder rather than your wrist. 2. Lubricate the cutter before you begin, and between each score. 3. When cutting stained glass, always score the glass on its smoothest side. 4. Hold the glass securely with one hand while scoring with the other. 5. Begin to cut 1/8" from the edge of the glass. 6. Maintain an even pressure while scoring. Failure to do so could result in the glass not breaking properly. Your score line should be visible, and a gentle "ripping" sound should be heard. If you don't hear or see it, pressure is too light. A heavy, white, fuzzy line indicates that you are using too much pressure. 7. Never go over the same score line. Doing so will dull your cutter, and the glass will not break properly. 8. Make sure the wheel is perpendicular to the glass at all times. Slanting the wheel will give you a bevelled edge, or even worse, you will not be scoring the glass at all. 9. STOP SHORT of the glass edge for longer cutter life. 10. Always do the most difficult score first. 11. If you have to use excessive pressure to score, your cutter is probably dull, or you are using the wrong cutter for the type of glass you want to cut. 12. If your score line looks like a dotted line, the wheel of your cutter is probably dented, and it should be discarded. Well, I hope this is helpful to someone out there!!! If you are like me, you may want to order a catalog...it's great fun! (I feel like a little kid looking at the "Wish Book"!!) Even if you don't order directly from the catalog, you may get ideas which will take you to your local shop!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 10:29:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:27:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ideal.jf.intel.com!lynice From: "L. Spangler" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:22:22 -0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.102222.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm interested in advantages/disadvantages of scoring direction. I score in the direction away from me ( I can see where I'm headed), my husband scores in the direction toward himself. Thoughts? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 10:52:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:51:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:51:35 -0800 Message-ID: <199712181851.KAA28259@smtp3.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk When following a pattern line, I score away from myself. When jig cutting I score towards myself. Sometimes I do not even score at all. What ever works best for you, but try both ways. weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 10:58:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:57:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:59:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.85913.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Always in the same direction? I score toward me for straight cuts and = away for curves and small pieces. I don't know it it right but I can't = see the line to pull the cutter toward me. Linda Campbell ---------- From: L. Spangler[SMTP:lynice@ideal.jf.intel.com] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 1997 5:22 AM To: 'glass@bungi.com' Subject: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) I'm interested in advantages/disadvantages of scoring direction. I = score=20 in the direction away from me ( I can see where I'm headed), my husband=20 scores in the direction toward himself. Thoughts? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 11:08:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:06:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Don McDonald and me... the truth revealed!! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:09:30 +0000 Message-ID: <199712181334.HAA04380@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I have encouraged him to share a little of his background with bungi > ......he hasn't said yes....or no > I know he is the most humble of gentleman, a trait I deeply respect as a > former ego driven maniac, but with his permission and perhaps the list's > encouragement I could forward a portion of his bio to the group. How about > it Don? :-) > > So there you have it ...The Truth Revealed... or at least my version of the > truth Len's version of the truth and my version are in complete agreement. If he would like to share those parts of my bio that he thinks the list might be interested in, he's welcome. As for me, I'm not going to take the time to type them out again right now, I've got My Mother arriving for her Annual Visit and am still soldering on her Christmas gift, plus 7 windows for a church that are not progressing as well as they should, not to mention moving the offices of CCTI this week, plus I play the organ for church and The Christmas Marathon is fast approaching, so Len, have at it. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 11:11:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:10:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Learning new skills Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:52:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.45248.0> References: <<1997Dec18.02247.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani had better watch out, or all of us hobbiests will be going out to Colorado to spend a week with her and Michael on our vacations!! Dani, you may have to start a side-line business, kind of like the people who pretend to be baseball players for a week. I guess this falls under "Learn Something New Every Day". I just assumed that when people talked about not using grinders, that they were talking about lead. I was taught to use a grinder with foiling, to smooth the edges so the foil would adhere and not to cut the foil...... I just never dreamed that you did foil without grinding. Even when a piece is cut perfectly, I always go around the whole thing with the grinder. You've definitely given me something to think about! Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 11:14:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:13:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike From: Mike Simpson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Tinning Steel Coathanger Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:56:18 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <199712181856.SAA01332@jackel.demon.co.uk> References: <<1997Dec18.63141.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk A couple of tips for tinning steel wire such as coathangers. All of the coating must be removed first so that only steel shows, this is best done with a file or carborundum (wet&dry) paper, wire wool does not seem to do the job well enough. If the wire has a plating such as zinc or cadmium it more important this is removed (although I have no idea why as zinc cames tin readily enough) Don't use soldered iron on anything that is used outside, electro- chemical action causes the solder to turn to sponge and the iron to become brittle even if it doesn't show any signs of rust. Some fluxes work better than others, I use Fry's Powerflow flux, the kind that is sold for use on lead free solder. apply a little flux and heat the wire with a soldering iron until quite hot but not so much as to cause the flux to turn brown, apply a little more flux and then the solder which should now flow on freely. If the wire is stainless steel (sort of up-market wire coat hanger) then it will solder extremely well - a bit of a surprise as it is normaly impossible to do anything with stainless steel. The secret is to use phosphoric acid as a flux, only a tiny drop is needed and the solder will flow as well as it does on brass. But NOTE WELL, phosphoric acid is very nasty indeed, it can cause your teeth to fall out #cringe# and your jaw to turn to powder ~~shudder~~, so good ventilation is in order. Also clean off the bit well with a damp sponge as it can eat through the iron plating on a bit. Mike Simpson. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 11:14:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:13:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike From: Mike Simpson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: another smiley Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:32:58 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <199712181832.SAA01276@jackel.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Another important smiley to add to Len's list, (-: Basic smiley re-engineered for left handed people. :-) Mike Simpson. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 11:23:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:22:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:25:30 +0000 Message-ID: <199712181350.HAA04404@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I score away from me if I'm following a line drawn on the glass or a paper pattern template, toward me if I'm following a straight edge or template that is thicker than paper. If the glass is not very smooth, I go away from me no matter what I'm using to guide the cut. That is, unless I forget and do it backwards. On very long cuts, I usually start in the middle and go away for distant segment and toward for the close segment. (I'm short and fat, so I can't reach across 4 feet and maintain constant pressure.) Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 11:31:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:30:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: Cutting Glass Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:40:51 -0600 Message-ID: <199712181927.NAA18944@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >3. When cutting stained glass, always score the glass on its smoothest side. I can think of at least one exception.....anybody want guess? >8. Make sure the wheel is perpendicular to the glass at all times. Slanting >the wheel will give you a bevelled edge, or even worse, you will not be >scoring the glass at all. This the skill that needs to be mastered if you want to stay away from the grinder and the scrap bucket and it aint the easiest So Whinney "the worlds only stained glass making horse" walks into a bar and the bartender says " Why the long face? " Boy what a day Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 11:55:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:55:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Mr Mc Donalds bio Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:05:51 -0600 Message-ID: <199712181952.NAA20730@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm sure you all will find this as fascinating as I did Len ............................................................................ ................................................. As far as glass goes, I've been doing that for about 20 years. I was an Augustinian monk in my younger days and learned glass from one of the old monks. We were building a new chapel and his eyesight and hands were failing so he took me under his wings. I learned to design and cut, came and hang large windows. I also learned to paint details with black (only) and fire the painting to the glass, although we only did that on one of the pieces in the abbey, so it was more of just an exposure that I never followed up on. And I learned what it feels like to be standing at the altar in a thunderstorm when "The Madonna of the Size 47 Foot" comes crashing down on your head in a spectacular shower of blue and pink glass. I continued to do leaded panels for small churches for free since then. They would buy the glass and supplies, and I would make them a window. It had been about 6 years since I had done anything and I wandered into Flowers Etc meeting Mike and Dianna Barr and discovered the foil method, this list, saws, grinders, and all that stuff. In some areas I'm an old hand (read old fashioned--whiting is still flour, a fid is a sharpened dowel, sal ammoniac is still a cup of table salt with ammonia added to make a paste, and I still tap the score line) but in others I am a complete novice, like 3 dimensional stuff! This baffles me to no end. In the past week I've made two vases and am beginning to get the idea a little. I need to go spend more time with Dianna who does really great work. All this time I thought that stained glass was done by monks in monasteries and large studios. Now instead of doing windows for churches (well, I've got 7 that I'm working on right now) I'm doing suncatchers to sell at flea markets. I also work with an AIDS daycare center for adults doing small projects with the clients. I do the cutting, they foil and solder and patina and polish to lessen the chances of stray blood. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 12:02:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:01:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Tinning Steel Coathanger Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:58:23, -0500 Message-ID: <199712181958.OAC19508@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda writes: One of my first projects was a humming bird and flowers tack soldered to = a metal ring. I had the ring laying around the house. it was steel with = a brass coating on it. Being a novice, I couldn't get the steel hot = enough to do anything but clump and generally make a mess of the solder. = Those birds and flowers ended up as somebody's refridgerator magnets. = I'm not so sure I'd try it even now, a year later. I like someone else's idea of wrapping foil around the wire hanger at = the point of attachment. Linda Campbell Bob writes, The brass plated steel ring may have had a clear coating to prevent tarnishing and therefore resisted soldering. Fluxing will not remove this costing. A clean brass plated steel ring should solder well. A light cleaning with steel wool will remove any coating. Yes, you can wrap foil (or copper wire) around a ring to get a point on which to solder. I like rings to provide the necessary stability for free form projects. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (God does not need our advice on what is good for us.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 12:30:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:30:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison From: ItsAlison To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Lampmaking Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:17:55 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec18.201755.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-17 23:02:40 EST, you write: << > > I am old, cranky, eccentric, fairly good at what I do and can get away with > > a lot of attitude after 16+ years of dabbling in lampshade making. > > > > A'int you all glad I am back > >> I am glad to hear an experienced lampmaker is back! I dont make many lamps myself, but i am just reeling from a "Tiffany Inspired" stained glass lighting segment I just watched on QVC on Thursday Dec. 18th from 1 to 1:30 EST. The hostess and the company (Splendor Lighting Company) representative stated over and over that these lamps were made with art glass and foil all made in the US. The Hostess repeated this many times, adding the words "for a completely US made product" I suspect that when the mail order consumer unpacks these lamps, somewher on the boxes the words "made in China" or "Made in Mexico" will appear. These dome style lamps were mostly 14"tall and contained up tp 200 pieces. The prices were around $77-$89......and we all know what the lamp base alone and the glass would cost us!!! When I visited the Yoghiogheny factory in the fall, I was told very little of their glass is made for, or sold in the USA...most of their glass is being shipped out of the country to be fabricated overseas or in Mexico (where economys are such that workers can be gotten for pennies) I guess my question is......what do other Stained glass Artists and Craftsmen think about all of this? Are you as alarmed by this trend as I am? I can only imagine what an accomplished stained glass lampmaker must feel or think when seeing these factory produced lamps being pumped out by the 100's and even 1000's and then sold by everyone from Home Depot to QVC and Home Shopping Network!!!! I think it devalues original work done individually , because the majority of customers/consumers cannot distinguish the difference or do not care about the difference. So Howard, what is your take on all of this?? ~Alison~ (who is working towards becomming "cranky,accomplished, and eccentric") ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 13:02:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:01:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bluemountain.com!postoffice From: postoffice@bluemountain.com (Alison) To: glass@bungi.com (Wonderful People Bungi) Subject: Snow Santa for Wonderful People Bungi - from Alison Date: Thu, 18 Dec 97 13:05:16 -00800 (PST) Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Guess what!! Alison has just sent you an animated greeting card You can pick up your personal greeting by connecting to the following WWW Address: http://www.bluemountain.com/cards/box5378/wond9922mfe4344.html _______________________________________________________________________ You can CONNECT THROUGH A BROWSER (such as Netscape, IE or AOL) to the World Wide Web and simply copy and paste the exact WWW address from above into the "Location" or "Address" space in your BROWSER. IMPORTANT: COPY EXACTLY - NO BLANK SPACES! - ALL LOWER CASE! (Your greeting card will be available for the next 30 days) This service is FREE! :) HAVE a good day and have fun! _______________________________________________________________________ Accessing your card indicates your agreement with our Website Rules posted at the bottom of the following Web location: (You're welcome to send a free card to someone at this location) http://www.bluemountain.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 13:08:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:08:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bluemountain.com!postoffice From: postoffice@bluemountain.com (Alison) To: glass@bungi.com (wondeful people Bungi) Subject: Cheery Snowmen Wishes for wondeful people Bungi - from Alison Date: Thu, 18 Dec 97 13:08:11 -00800 (PST) Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Guess what!! Alison has just sent you an animated greeting card You can pick up your personal greeting by connecting to the following WWW Address: http://www.bluemountain.com/cards/box5368/wond3698pfe9028.html _______________________________________________________________________ You can CONNECT THROUGH A BROWSER (such as Netscape, IE or AOL) to the World Wide Web and simply copy and paste the exact WWW address from above into the "Location" or "Address" space in your BROWSER. IMPORTANT: COPY EXACTLY - NO BLANK SPACES! - ALL LOWER CASE! (Your greeting card will be available for the next 30 days) This service is FREE! :) HAVE a good day and have fun! _______________________________________________________________________ Accessing your card indicates your agreement with our Website Rules posted at the bottom of the following Web location: (You're welcome to send a free card to someone at this location) http://www.bluemountain.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 13:14:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:14:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mr Mc Donalds bio Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:11:40 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec18.211140.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Thank you Len for pursuing this with Mr. McDonald. Thank you Mr. McDonald for allowing Len to share your bio. I found it most humbling for me. I want to wish EVERYONE on bungi a Merry Christmas! I will be leaving and heading for Florida early tomorrow and will be checking out some of the sites and shops that some of you have written to me about. Peace be with you! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 13:41:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:40:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: lampmaking and cheeeeep stuff Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:40:34 -0800 Message-ID: <199712182140.NAA24759@smtp3.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I do not feel threatened by the crap coming from countries where a living wage is $2.00 per week I also do not get into the tv buying programs, and I am very skeptical of the prices, with the claim of made in the USA.] Yes, the glass and foil and perhaps even the solder is made in the US, but as for the assembly I highly doubt it. As for demeaning the craft (or whatever it is called), some people drive a Yugo, others a Rolls, and they both are vehicles, they both may get you where you are going, BUT...there is a difference. If one cannot tell them apart, buy the less expensive one. I used to be a peddler of auto parts to many outlets which included a few used car dealers. One of the dealers summed up the word in general as it related to his field. " There is an ass made for every seat". It does carry on to a few other fields as well. I trade on heirloom pieces, the chance of "having it your way" (within reason) and explaining that perhaps there a few people who are NOT meant to own one of my shades, and you may be one of them. I tend to stay booked and it is rare when I do not a commission. It took perseverance, faith (in my self....ego), a wife who supports me in a way I have been accustomed to, a desire to get better, never being satisfied, and an ability to hustle my own work without being caught up in the artist in a snit because you do not like what I did mode. I do not put as much time as I used to, so I need to be more effective, selective in what I do and not "give" anything away just to stay busy. I have an option to do a major private show in June, and so far have no shades for it. I may be forced to actually work! Enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 14:08:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:06:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Cutting Glass Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:00:29 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.22029.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 13:40 18/12/97 -0600, Len wrote: >> >>3. When cutting stained glass, always score the glass on its smoothest >side. > >I can think of at least one exception.....anybody want guess? > Would you be thinking of waterglass, Len? Elizabeth & Sam Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 14:23:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:23:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:00:13 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.22013.0> References: <<1997Dec18.13654.0@?>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <1997Dec18.13654.0@?>, MsChatee writes >Dani just a quick question about the comment you made on newbie's using >irridescent glass......why? I'm new and I've used it with no problems at all. >Am I doing something wrong:-) (or just lucky?) >Just wondering! Back to lurking....Bye. Nothing really wrong, jsut that irr. glass tends to flatten the design, detract from the overall image, and so must be used very sparingly. Steve >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 14:27:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:26:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:23:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.122313.0> References: <<1997Dec18.01627.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LElsbury wrote: > > In a message dated 97-12-17 17:02:08 EST, you write: > > << Grinders're slower than good > cutting technique and they're more expensive than a carbide cutter, a > good eye, years of experience, etc. >> > I doubt there is any argument to that Albert and are not quite sure why you > made the statement except it's wonderful advice. > > I never thought grinders were the only way but given the lack of experience my > teacher had (found this out after the fact) I have come to depend on a grinder > but only out of ignorance to other ways that I have now learned through bungi. > > There is no way anyone in their right mind would take your bet. I do have > two > questions for you - how much time does it take before a person is considered > "experienced" and is considered a "pro"? > > "But you might still be the better human being" - tacky, real tacky - I > thought you were above this Albert. I will still try to learn everything I > can from you - about glass. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i don't think time as a factor in how well you do. some people it may take one lesson, and they can do it like the pro's. other's may never get to that status. i think being a "pro" means you can make any project you design, without any worry, and have it look professional. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 14:31:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:30:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:25:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.122539.0> References: <<1997Dec18.05333.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ItsAlison wrote: > > In a message dated 97-12-17 15:47:51 EST, you write: > > << I just tried the coat hanger idea (again). I still cannot get the > solder to adhere. I've tried steel wool until the metal is bright > and shiny silver, I've tried heating with a torch until it was red > hot to burn off the coatings then using anywhere from a touch to a > flood of flux. The solder still will not stick to the coat hanger. > I'm welcoming any ideas on this...I have a closet full of coat > hangers that would just love to be used for something. > > Don M. McDonald > Web Design > Corporate Communications Technology >> > > Don, > When I first heard about using hangers my first thought was that they > would probably rust when in contact with damp soil.....it was just a thought. > But since you are having such difficulty with getting solder to adhere.....I'd > tend to go with the braising rod instead. Anyone have any thoughts about the > issue of rusting?? > ~Alison~ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the coat hanger should'nt rust proving you leave the plastic coating on. just remove the plastic to bare metal where it's going to be soldered; providing the solder sticks. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 14:33:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:32:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:03:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.22322.0> References: <<1997Dec18.102222.0@?>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <1997Dec18.102222.0@?>, "L. Spangler" writes >I'm interested in advantages/disadvantages of scoring direction. I score >in the direction away from me ( I can see where I'm headed), my husband >scores in the direction toward himself. Thoughts? > A genuine question: how does he see where he is going on curves etc.? > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 14:34:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:32:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Don McDonald and me... the truth revealed!! Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:14:07 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.22147.0> References: <<199712181620.KAA06625@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <199712181620.KAA06625@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>, len alcamo writes Len, Thanks for your comment on the way you found a new friend! Now! I hope I won't have all these ideograms legislated for me - I'll never remember which I' to use! ;-) or :-) or: ^ ^ | \ / Cheers! -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 14:38:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:37:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Off the Subject (of late) (now Butyl putty) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:16:49 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.221649.0> References: <<199712181659.IAA08219@mail1.teleport.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <199712181659.IAA08219@mail1.teleport.com>, Howard and Elaine Rubin writes >At the risk of breaking the current threads.................. .... >Anyone have questions or input about lampshade making or on a broader >scale, even glass? OK. I asked a while ago about butyl putty use in leaded glass windows. Very few people responded. Does that mean there is little experience of the material and so of its weathering properties? -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 14:42:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:40:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:36:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.123649.0> References: <<1997Dec17.162957.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NCScouter wrote: > > Don McDonald wrote: > > > > > Hangers - I have tons - would never have thought of them - thank you so much. > > > LuAnn > > > > I just tried the coat hanger idea (again). I still cannot get the > > solder to adhere. I've tried steel wool until the metal is bright > > and shiny silver, I've tried heating with a torch until it was red > > hot to burn off the coatings then using anywhere from a touch to a > > flood of flux. The solder still will not stick to the coat hanger. > > I'm welcoming any ideas on this...I have a closet full of coat > > hangers that would just love to be used for something. > > > > Don M. McDonald > > Web Design > > Corporate Communications Technology > > ---- > > I'm hoping that Lee-Bo, Albert, or someone will correct me if I'm D&C > about this, but > I believe from my experiences with attempting to solder steel that one > must > use a different type of flux and solder which is actually called for in > that process > known as "brazing". I didn't bother to learn more about it as it was > conveyed > to me that this process was mostly used in jewelry-making (not my usual > cuppa...) > I was also informed that the materials used for brazing (special solder > & flux) > were even more expensive than it already is for stained glass. (OUCH!) > > Good luck - you'll need it! I never DID get the steel parts soldered > together... > My kind and tolerant spouse welded them for me instead... > > [BTW, before anyone asks - D&C means "Dazed and Confused".] > > Ciao for now! > V T Phelps > Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass brazing would'nt work anyway, it needs a torch, and it will crack the glass, and melt out the solder. maybe if the coat hanger was coated with brass or copper. maybe the solder will stick to that. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 14:56:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:55:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: pliers Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:04:46 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.22446.0> References: <<199712181059.KAA00311@jackel.demon.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <199712181059.KAA00311@jackel.demon.co.uk>, Mike Simpson writes >I wonder if anybody can recognize some old grozing pliers from a >description. I am not certain that they were made for this >purpose although I was told that they were grozing pliers when >I was given them. They sound like breaking pliers to me, not grozing pliers Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 14:57:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:57:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:53:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.125339.0> References: <<1997Dec18.102222.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk L. Spangler wrote: > > I'm interested in advantages/disadvantages of scoring direction. I score > in the direction away from me ( I can see where I'm headed), my husband > scores in the direction toward himself. Thoughts? > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass what ever works, basically. wehn i cut, i push (for curves. this way i can see the cut, coming and going. plus i can steer my cut with the other hand. when i cut against a ruler, i pull the cutter. if i push against the ruler, it digs in, either causing a yucky scraping feeling. or it drags and the score is comprimised. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 15:08:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:07:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Lampmaking Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:03:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.13340.0> References: <<1997Dec18.201755.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ItsAlison wrote: > > In a message dated 97-12-17 23:02:40 EST, you write: > > << > > I am old, cranky, eccentric, fairly good at what I do and can get > away with > > > a lot of attitude after 16+ years of dabbling in lampshade > making. > > > > > > A'int you all glad I am back > > >> > I am glad to hear an experienced lampmaker is back! I dont make many lamps > myself, but i am just reeling from a "Tiffany Inspired" stained glass lighting > segment I just watched on QVC on Thursday Dec. 18th from 1 to 1:30 EST. The > hostess and the company (Splendor Lighting Company) representative stated > over and over that these lamps were made with art glass and foil all made in > the US. The Hostess repeated this many times, adding the words "for a > completely US made product" > I suspect that when the mail order consumer unpacks these lamps, somewher on > the boxes the words "made in China" or "Made in Mexico" will appear. These > dome style lamps were mostly 14"tall and contained up tp 200 pieces. The > prices were around $77-$89......and we all know what the lamp base alone and > the glass would cost us!!! When I visited the Yoghiogheny factory in the > fall, I was told very little of their glass is made for, or sold in the > USA...most of their glass is being shipped out of the country to be fabricated > overseas or in Mexico (where economys are such that workers can be gotten for > pennies) I guess my question is......what do other Stained glass Artists and > Craftsmen think about all of this? Are you as alarmed by this trend as I am? > I can only imagine what an accomplished stained glass lampmaker must feel or > think when seeing these factory produced lamps being pumped out by the 100's > and even 1000's and then sold by everyone from Home Depot to QVC and Home > Shopping Network!!!! I think it devalues original work done individually , > because the majority of customers/consumers cannot distinguish the > difference or do not care about the difference. So Howard, what is your take > on all of this?? > ~Alison~ (who is working towards becomming > "cranky,accomplished, and eccentric") > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i've seen that show, some of the lamps are kind of cute, but the people calling in are idiots. i think if people want real stained glass, they'll be smart enough to get the real thing. it's like getting a real diamond, or a zirconia, or even one of those newer diamonds (the name escapes me). people may buy the cheaper thing, but it will still not be a diamond. i, in general, don't care. if people are that stupid, to compare the junk their pedaling on TV; and to compare it to say "wisteria", and saying "look at the price difference". then fine, i personally don't need them. if they don't see, or can't see the quality difference, then i'm not sure i want them to have my creation. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 15:10:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:10:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: crl.com!slally From: Sean Lally To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting Glass Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:07:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <<1997Dec18.173632.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Cfrankie00 wrote: > 11. If you have to use excessive pressure to score, your cutter is probably > dull, or you are using the wrong cutter for the type of glass you want to cut. > Number 11 has caught my attention. Are there different kinds of cutters for different kinds of glass? Can anyone give examples? Thanks. Sean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 15:28:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:28:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ictc.com!bankers From: "The Banker's House" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Learning new skills Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:30:09 -0600 Message-ID: <199712182333.RAA25385@ns.ictc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Here! Here! A holiday toast.... to everyone on Bungi... Truly a remarkable lil' group. Dale ---------- > From: Kaye Sodt > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Learning new skills > Date: Thursday, December 18, 1997 10:08 AM > > Thank you Kathy in "Tim-Buck-Two"! > > I think yours was a message we all needed right about now. While I > tend to be amused by the little bouts of "sensitivity," they can > (rarely, thank goodness) get ugly enough to be alarming. > > Your comments put it all into perspective and bring us back to what > we ought to be doing here--sharing both experience and opinion (with > humor and goodwill) AMONG FRIENDS. > > On the verge of holiday sappiness... > > Kaye > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 15:37:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:36:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: Northernlights To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Thanks for the card Allison! Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:38:31 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.113831.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Considering ALL the snow has melted up here in the Great White North (Minnesota) it was good to see a little of it fall....even if it was only "virtual" snow. Happy Holidaze!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 15:43:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:43:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ictc.com!bankers From: "The Banker's House" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Cutting Glass Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:44:57 -0600 Message-ID: <199712182348.RAA25491@ns.ictc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am unfamiliar with an exception to the rule? Why would waterglass be cut differently? Hoping not to sound to stupid.... Dale ---------- > From: studio@stainedglass.co.uk > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Cutting Glass > Date: Thursday, December 18, 1997 4:00 PM > > At 13:40 18/12/97 -0600, Len wrote: > >> > >>3. When cutting stained glass, always score the glass on its smoothest > >side. > > > >I can think of at least one exception.....anybody want guess? > > > > Would you be thinking of waterglass, Len? > Elizabeth & Sam > Bournemouth Stained Glass > http://www.stainedglass.co.uk > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 15:45:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:45:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Off the Subject (of late) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:42:06 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec18.23426.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Howard: You are a hoot!!!! Thank you for your sense of humor, as dry and sarcastic as I find it, I love it. Keep on! I do have a very general question about lamps. From everything I have read about you, you are the guru so here goes - from my limited knowledge of lampmaking - what are your thoughts about using the Worden vs Oddessy vs Rainbow systems/methods? LuAnn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 15:46:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:46:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting Glass Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:35:16 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.113516.0> References: <<199712181927.NAA18944@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Spectrum Water Glass......... Don On Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:40:51 -0600 "len alcamo" writes: >> >>3. When cutting stained glass, always score the glass on its >smoothest >side. > >I can think of at least one exception.....anybody want guess? > > >>8. Make sure the wheel is perpendicular to the glass at all times. >Slanting >>the wheel will give you a bevelled edge, or even worse, you will not >be >>scoring the glass at all. > >This the skill that needs to be mastered if you want to stay away >from the >grinder and the scrap bucket and it aint the easiest > > > > >So Whinney "the worlds only stained glass making horse" walks into a >bar and >the bartender says " Why the long face? " > > > > >Boy what a day > >Len > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 15:49:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:49:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ideal.jf.intel.com!lynice From: "L. Spangler" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:44:52 -0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.154452.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > > A genuine question: how does he see where he is going on curves etc.? > > > I guess I've only seen him make straight scores (he's pretty new at it). L. Spangler ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 16:24:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:23:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Learning new skills Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:13:52 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.141352.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Jerri- Do come and visit if you're out my way! = As far as your foil not adhering when you don't grind - remember that your glass may have some oil on it from the cutter. The water from grinding would take care of that problem, but if you don't grind you might need to wipe off the glass before foiling. I find that the ground pieces don't hold the foil as well because of residual glass dust! Try it without grinding, clean glass, and see what you think. = Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 16:28:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:27:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!clipper1 From: clipper1@erols.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: CDs and mosaics Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:27:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971218202327.3067ba7e@pop.erols.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Merry Christmas all! I've been playing with an idea an wanted to ask for some opinions before getting too far along. I keep getting CD's in the mail from aol, compuserv etc. that I've pretty much been using as coasters. But I had another idea of how to use them recently. I've been designing a mosaic table top using the solar system as a theme. (Think of one of opening images from Star Trek NG). I was considering mixing in some thin 'rings' cut from these CDs to mix in with the colored ones around Saturn and the pale one for Jupiter - and maybe using a couple tiny bits to add some twinkle of distant stars in the background. Now CD's are not quite really glass, and I'm not sure how careful I might have to be to prevent anything from eventually compromising the ringed mirror look in them that inspired this. Also, does anyone think something like this could be used in a foiled project? My sister thought it would a neat bit of halo for the high-tech angel I promised I'd make her someday... Any thought? Carol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 16:29:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:28:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Off the Subject (of late) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:28:31 -0800 Message-ID: <199712190028.QAA19464@smtp3.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Lu Ann.................Never did a rainbow system so no comment there (note: I have not attempted to expound in any depth on a system I have never tried). Lots of cons and cons for either and both systems. The pattern you pick may have a bearing on the cost, i.e.. a 20" worden will be easier to do with three forms and may cost as much an odyssey. If money is a VERY large concern, the Worden is more versatile and cheaper. Worden is not usually as close ( they tend to be stylized) to the original as is Odyssey. Worden will eventually suffer from a meltdown. Odyssey is hard to destroy, I have made 16 of some shades and the form is still unhurt. Because my shades are "supposed" to be good reproductions as well, I use only Odyssey and I feel his hardware, filigrees and jewels are closer to the original ones than Worden. Now for a "hustle"....should you (and any others) be interested, I rent used or new Odysseys' and can have any Worden shipped (new) direct to you. Should I get any bites, please e-mail me DIRECT!! weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 16:31:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:30:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Cutting Glass -- and a bit more Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:23:11 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971218192311.006cae74@pop.netrox.net> References: <<199712181927.NAA18944@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >>8. Make sure the wheel is perpendicular to the glass at all times. >Slanting >>the wheel will give you a bevelled edge, or even worse, you will not be >>scoring the glass at all. > >This the skill that needs to be mastered if you want to stay away from the >grinder and the scrap bucket and it aint the easiest Now this is great! I knew it was important to keep my wheel perpendicular and heavens knows, when I remember, I really try, but now I even know why!!!! Thanks to both of you and to the many on bungi who take their time and effort to share. I think the generosity of people on the Internet is a miracle and I am really grateful to be a part of it. It does sometimes get a little scratchy between people, here and on other lists -- (I belong to quite a few and bungi really is quite civilized, on balance). It's just a little too easy to hide behind the apparent anonymity of the Net. I know I have said things here and on other lists, I probably wouldn't have said face to face. I must admit I sometimes enjoy reading the more controversial threads. It's kind of a character study. Well, I've strayed from the topic and begun to ramble, but since this is somewhat of a general post, I'll take this chance to wish all of you a very joyous holiday season whether you are celebrating Kwaanza (sp?), Christmas, Yule, Chanukah or Life. With Light to all, M.-J. Wise men appreciate all men, for they see the good in each and know how hard it is to make anything good. -- Baltasar Gracian ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 16:38:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:37:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: CDs and mosaics Date: Thu, 18 Dec 97 17:37:23 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1.5.4.16.19971218202327.3067ba7e@pop.erols.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > Also, does anyone think something like this could be used in a > foiled project? My sister thought it would a neat bit of halo for the > high-tech angel I promised I'd make her someday... how would you solder it in? a cd is plastic and a very thin sheet of aluminum (or silver or gold, if you're into the hi-end). i think you could use these if epoxy was used. ttfn. i'm also off to florida to visit the inlaws. 'see' you all next year. charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 16:38:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:38:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Cutting Glass Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:13:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.141345.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Len- When does one NOT cut on = the smoothest side? My first = reaction was - when the glass is iridized. But, then I decided to check and all the iridized = glass I have is, in fact, iridized on the Less smooth side. = (Learn something new every day!) So, how about flashed glass? ;-) Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 16:40:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:39:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Mr Mc Donalds bio Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:13:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.141336.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well, that was a pretty interesting bio, Len. Makes me think it might be fun to have a "Bungi Bio-of-the-Month" . How about you next?! And Albert would be a good subject, too. Best ;-D, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 16:46:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:45:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!MsChatee From: MsChatee To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:40:15 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.04015.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Thanks Dani for the feedback. Since I am fairly new my experience with irredescent glass has been strictly for suncatcher type projects (it makes great Angel wings and since it is the Christmas season I've made plenty). When I move on to bigger and better things I will be keeping all the wonderful advice I've gotten from all you old pros fresh in my mind. Thanks. Caren ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 16:52:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:51:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Off the Subject (of late) (now Butyl putty) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:51:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712190051.TAA11326@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >I asked a while ago about butyl putty use in leaded glass windows. Very >few people responded. Does that mean there is little experience of the >material and so of its weathering properties? Steve, Why would you want to use butyl putty on a leaded glass window? The only application we would use it for is when we have a thermalpane unit constructed they glaze it with butyl. Butyl is that thick black stuff that is not so pleasent to look at. Were you thinking about using this to glaze a window? Or instead of cement? Maybe I missed your original post. my best, pj ( who knows new year is around the corner............a likes peace on earth!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 17:22:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:21:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting Glass Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:17:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.151724.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sean Lally wrote: > > On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Cfrankie00 wrote: > > > 11. If you have to use excessive pressure to score, your cutter is probably > > dull, or you are using the wrong cutter for the type of glass you want to cut. > > > > Number 11 has caught my attention. Are there different kinds of cutters > for different kinds of glass? Can anyone give examples? Thanks. > > Sean > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass sure, fletcher terry has at least 3 types: #1 the green ring, for all types of glass. #2 the yellow ring, for thin glass like front surface mirror, etc. #3. the black ring, is designed for clear glass. each ring color, represents a different angle of the cutter head. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 17:54:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:54:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:53:20 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.15320.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk This might be a silly observation on my part but I am left handed and two other people I know are also - we cut towards our body. The right handed people cut away from their bodies. Is this a fluke or could there be something to it? LuAnn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 17:55:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:54:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: a bit more (corr) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:54:34 -0800 Message-ID: <199712190154.RAA03604@smtp3.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I omitted saying that some of the Wordens's such as the 20" poppy, would be much easier with 3 forms. The peacock is another one with a lot of bridging pieces and VERY difficult to do with only one section. His (Worden) full forms are easy to use and you do not need to wax them. My first choice (for myself) is still Odyssey. weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 17:55:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:55:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: crl.com!slally From: Sean Lally To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting Glass Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:47:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <<1997Dec18.151724.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Cool, thanks for letting me know, Mike. Sean On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, M. Savad wrote: > Sean Lally wrote: > > > > On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Cfrankie00 wrote: > > > > > 11. If you have to use excessive pressure to score, your cutter is probably > > > dull, or you are using the wrong cutter for the type of glass you want to cut. > > > > > > > Number 11 has caught my attention. Are there different kinds of cutters > > for different kinds of glass? Can anyone give examples? Thanks. > > > > Sean > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > sure, fletcher terry has at least 3 types: > > #1 the green ring, for all types of glass. > #2 the yellow ring, for thin glass like front surface mirror, etc. > #3. the black ring, is designed for clear glass. > > each ring color, represents a different angle of the cutter head. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A > Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 18:21:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:21:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: earthlink.net!jeksac From: John Keller To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Is it just me? Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:25:06 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.14256.0> References: <<199712180729.XAA07505@oregontrail.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Admin Kit Investigator Precedence: bulk yo! veritably, tis a ho, ho, ho!!! Linn Douglas R. Terry wrote: > > >> My, everyone seems very sensitive and touchy. If we can't talk about....... > > well here's a story for you ;-) > > A story just in time for Christmas... > > > Not long ago and not far away Santa was getting ready for his > annual trip...but there were problems everywhere... four of the elves > got sick, and the trainee elves did not produce the toys as fast as the > regular ones, so Santa was beginning to feel the pressure of being behind > schedule.... > then Mrs. Claus told Santa that her mom was coming to > visit...this stressed Santa even more... when he went to harness the > reindeer he found that three of them were about to give birth and two had > jumped the fence and were out heaven knows where...more stress. > And then, when he began to load the sleigh one of the boards on > the sleigh cracked and the toy bag fell to the ground and scattered all the > toys...so,frustrated, Santa went into the house for a cup of coffee and a > shot ofwhiskey...but he found that the elves had hit the liquor cupboard > and there was nothing there to drink...and in his frustration he > dropped the coffee pot and it broke into hundreds of little pieces all > over the kitchen floor...he went to get the broom and found that mice > had eaten the straw it was made from. > Just then the doorbell rang and Santa cussed on his way to the > door...he opened the door and there was a little angel with a great big > Christmas tree. > And the angel said: Santa, where would you like to put this > Christmas tree? > > And that, my friend, is how the little angel came to be on top of > the Christmas tree.... :-) > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 19:11:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:10:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: a bit more (corr) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:53:26 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.25326.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Why Odyssey Howard? What do you think of the Rainbow system? LuAnn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 19:31:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:30:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cyberg8t.com!chick From: Carolyn Duncan To: newsgroup Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: coat hangers Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:27:42 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.112742.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have had fairly good luck putting copper foil on the hanger. I have only done this twice this summer, so I don't know how well it will last. Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 19:58:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:57:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: a bit more (corr) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:56:57 -0800 Message-ID: <199712190356.TAA26954@smtp3.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Have no thoughts, have never tried it....know nothing about it. Question to you, are these the little lamps that use a special base and bulb? If so, not marketable for me. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 21:41:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:40:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: unforgettable.com!shorelineglassworks From: NCScouter To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Butyl putty Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:40:44 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.174044.0> References: <<1997Dec18.221649.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd., Roanoke Island, NC, USA Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > In message <199712181659.IAA08219@mail1.teleport.com>, Howard and Elaine > Rubin writes > >At the risk of breaking the current threads.................. > .... > >Anyone have questions or input about lampshade making or on a broader > >scale, even glass? > > OK. > > I asked a while ago about butyl putty use in leaded glass windows. Very > few people responded. Does that mean there is little experience of the > material and so of its weathering properties? > > -- > Steve Richard > ---- Richard, I'm not quite sure of exactly what you are referring to as "butyl putty"; but if it's like the good ole standard DAP glazing putty then I know what I feel about it's properties for use in a leaded glass window. It simply does not, and will not have the strength to withstand much less support the weight of a window full of art glass, lead came, and solder. Leaded galss cement is a mixture that hardens considerably after application and not only becomes stronger itself but helps to stiffen and suppport the window to some degree. Enough so that they have been known to last...oh 100 years or more with proper care and lack of vandalism without needing the cement retouched, etc. I believe. Len, Dani, pj, please correct me on any points you feel in which I might've made grievious error(s) as you are some of our most vocal leading experts.. V T Phelps Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 22:11:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:10:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:14:48, -0500 Message-ID: <199712190514.AAA17796@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LuAnn wrote: This might be a silly observation on my part but I am left handed and two other people I know are also - we cut towards our body. The right handed people cut away from their bodies. Is this a fluke or could there be something to it? LuAnn Bob writes, I too am left handed. I cut up when cutting a pattern and down when cutting against a straight edge. I do not see where left and right handed people would do anything but in mirror image when it comes to cutting. There are no *rules* and so you may cut as you choose. Most all my pattern cutting is done on a light table with the glass laying on the pattern. Cutting up just seems to be the easiest way for me to see and follow the line. Pulling down against a straight edge seems to give me better control of the cutter against the straight edge. Left on, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (God does not need our advice on what is good for us.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 22:45:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:45:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:43:56, -0500 Message-ID: <199712190643.BAA16430@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LuAnn wrote: This might be a silly observation on my part but I am left handed and two other people I know are also - we cut towards our body. The right handed people cut away from their bodies. Is this a fluke or could there be something to it? LuAnn Bob writes (again), It just occurred to me that you might be right eyed. To test for this just hold up your thumb at arms length and look with both eyes at a small target a few feet away. When you close one of your eyes your thumb will stay on target and will appear to move when closing the other eye. The open eye when the thumb does not move is the eyed you are. In my case I am left eyed and so I am well set up for cutting up left handed. Should you be right eyed then cutting down may be the best choice. Left on, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (If God needs my advice then He is not what I had in mind.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 23:05:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:05:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Butyl putty Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:04:27 -0800 Message-ID: <199712190704.XAA25433@smtp3.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I do no came, I do very few windows and know zero about what you ask. I declined to comment, but...............................this is a comment! weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 18 23:13:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:13:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: sculpted chestnut (valerie) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:13:04 -0800 Message-ID: <199712190713.XAA26736@smtp3.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Valerie, the post I sent to you got bounced back, so this is posted to the list. Hello, Valerie............. What timing, I finished the sculpted chestnut about 3 weeks ago. It is a very forgiving shade as lots of pieces stick up, do not have to meet the next one and some can go under the adjacent piece. It is a "clunky" looking shade, but has a charm of its own. I did all the leaves in a Yogo stipple and the background (very little) in a mixed blue-green. It also does not have to be in sections, as the shade will lift off the form. If you are interested, I rent the form for 45% of the retail price. The way it works is I get full retail for the form and pattern and when you return it (NO TIME FRAME FOR RETURN) I will send a check for 55% back to you. You will of course have to buy the branch work, (which I can send as well) but you do keep it. Let me know and I will price the whole package. weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 00:27:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:27:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hawk.rmplc.co.uk!mdcglas From: Phil To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: CDs and mosaics Date: Fri, 19 Dec 97 08:27:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199712190826.IAA03999@mx0.rmplc.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Also, does anyone think something like this could be used in a >foiled project? My sister thought it would a neat bit of halo for the >high-tech angel I promised I'd make her someday... > > Any thought? > >Carol My only thought about this is CD's are basically plastic I would worry about the heat of soldering melting of deforming the CD Phil ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 00:55:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:54:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Butyl putty Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 03:41:31, -0500 Message-ID: <199712190841.DAA20088@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have used butyl sealant to set a SG window in an aluminum frame. It was messy but did the job. Until now I have never even considered using this product to putty the cames of a window. The putty I make and like has at least four properties that butyl does not seem to have: 1. The putty must be thin enough to penetrate to the heart of the lead for a good water seal; 2. the putty must set up is a reasonable time to allow moving the window; 3. the putty must be such that cleaning the window is reasonable easy; and 4. the putty must set up moderately hard to add strength to the window. Butyl fails all of these tests. One of its principle reasons for use, such as around auto windshields, is that it remains flexable. To much flex is not desirable in SG windows. Now if you do some experiments and achieve success with this product you may make a real contribution to SG work. I will be one of the first to start using your butyl process and give you and Bungi full credit. Been wrong plenty of times, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (If God needs my advice then He is not what I had in mind.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 01:11:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:10:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Sight Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:05:03 -0800 Message-ID: <19971219010506.02cb5210.in@seaside.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Mary J Austin [SMTP:diamonds@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 1997 8:19 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: plant buddies Mary wrote Len, Thank you so much for all your help. I'm legally blind and work with a magnifying light so any of your help is appreciated. I love doing stained glass although I must admit I put off learning the art until I learned of my sight and other health problems. Thank you again and hope you have a wonderful holiday. Mary [Glenn Spicer] Mary, Interesting about your "blindness" and stained glass, I have often made my glass with the blind in mind using representative textures sometimes as much as colour. Seemed to me that it is an art form that allows even the totally blind to "see" a picture. My other passion is sculpture, which again I am pleased that the blind can "see". I, and I am sure that most artists, value my sight and hands above all and admire your courage to keep doing your your work. Question for you, have you experimented with textured or fancy soldering? Glenn Spicer The Studio Metamorphoses Vancouver Island, BC, Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 01:15:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:15:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: re:is it just me (Albert) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:10:00 -0800 Message-ID: <19971219011002.02cfd610.in@seaside.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: Albert LewisIs it just me? > Date: December 17, 1997 2:16 PM > > My, everyone seems very sensitive and touchy. If we can't talk about > ourselves as people while we also talk about glass and our > relationship with it, connection to it, and what it means to us > (that's philosophy, I guess), but must bear down and talk nothing but > technique, well heck, we might as well buy some book and take the > phone off the hook and have no communication with anyone else. > > If there are to be no human interchanges along with the exchange of > information, I'll have no interest in the exchange at all. On the > other hand, my days are very long and it's late, so perhaps it's just > me. > > A Well Albert I agree that we should be involved in human interchanges (as long as we maintain civility) and I enjoy your companionship on the Bungi, it makes me feel as though I am not alone in philosophizing about relations whether it be glass or people. I think that there are several others at least that feel this way (hi Toby, I mean Elisabeth) and I don't think that there are many if any that really mean to show disrespect or negativity but some that tend to take offence where it was not meant because of the lack of expression that can be conveyed through the net, and react rather than think and act. The web is still a relatively new way to communicate and has advantages and disadvantages. Color, age, sex, cease to be so important, I even got confused about Toby! But as you said "One of the difficulties of text-only messages is that they lack tone of voice, facial expressions and body language. " Hang in there. Glenn Spicer The Studio Metamorphoses Vancouver Island, BC, Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 01:39:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:39:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:32:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.173229.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I may be wrong Mike, but I think the Idea of brazing the coat hanger was to braze it first so that it would be coated, then the suncatcher could be soldered to it in turn, so no cracking , no melting. Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: M. Savad [SMTP:morn@nac.net] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 1997 2:37 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies brazing would'nt work anyway, it needs a torch, and it will crack the glass, and melt out the solder. maybe if the coat hanger was coated with brass or copper. maybe the solder will stick to that. ---Mike Savad begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@()`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`@ $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````/0`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0!33510`&=L M87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !```` M$ ```&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`#`!4,`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````2 M````)V=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;2<````"`0LP`0```!4```!33510.D=,05-3 M0$)53D=)+D-/30`````#```Y``````L`0#H!````'@#V7P$````0````9VQA M40&J&[ M" `K*E;"``!M2!B92!W`V /(*$%T&EK M92P9\'4%0&D9H'1H"X!K&T$:$$DA`0!A(&]F&?!R8=YZ"X :0!M0'5$>P7<(8&QD?QGR M'3()@!K0&[$#H!NR<_AU;F,=4!#P'<$%H" E_Q]0(# $D F 'B(>P0N &T#M M"'!N&M ?46X>0 4``-">:QRR&M DD0> ;'00$T10+)A!&!R1K01 6098\&T!W!,W :T#$Y.2C 2#(Z,RC M4$TVYU3:;S279PM@!!! &O /(!1I+@6@;3;H=6)JXR\A-)=293H&``6P&A"N M1ARQ!) ET' $("8Z0/L/`05 0BH@*C 'D#$/,AJ_+H0GV O%)HD<=B #)S_! M[2 ` ;D1]D)A FB2]A7QJ2-40F?@J %4$`5" #`! 0```` M``,`$1 ``````P" $/____] ```"6 "" &``````# ````````1@````!4A0```0````0````X+C ``P`F M@ @@!@``````P ```````$8``````84````````+`"^ "" &``````# ```` M````1@`````.A0````````,`,( (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!&%```` M`````P`R@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````&(4````````>`$& "" &```` M``# ````````1@`````VA0```0````$`````````'@!"@ @@!@``````P `` M`````$8`````-X4```$````!`````````!X`0X (( 8``````, ```````!& M`````#B%```!`````0`````````>`#T``0````4```!213H@``````,`#33] %-P``L)N% ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 02:29:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:29:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Is it just me? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:23:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199712191025.KAA05344@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Dani (et al) .... or "glassy bunch"???! Tee-hee! I am pretty fed up at the moment; One of the colleges owe me money from L:AST September; I have spent the last couple of days on the phone and received all excuses down to "computer schedules". End-result: I won't see the money until after New Year (about USD.1,000 - worth!) There goes my Christmas duck and 3 new tyres for the old car!! I am grounded! :-( Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Dani wrote: So what are we all grumbling about - we're a pretty classy bunch. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 02:30:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:29:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Is it just me? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:23:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199712191025.KAA05350@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear All, How "delicate" !! Loved the story... That's exactly how I feel at the moment! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK And the angel said: Santa, where would you like to put this Christmas tree? And that, my friend, is how the little angel came to be on top of the Christmas tree.... :-) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 02:40:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:39:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: ethics and format Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:34:28 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.183428.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I hope that I am not being too basic but the standard copper patina is achieved with copper sulfate (poisonous as are most patina chemicals) dissolved in hot water, and applied as hot as is comfortable and rubbed in vigorously. Other additives to the mix can be used (such as a very small amount nitric acid which gives a "bit" to the solution. Be warned that nitric and other chemicals are very aggressive and require protective gloves, eye protection, and good ventilation as well as safe and proper storage. Once there is a good copper coating other patinas can be applied to achieve greens browns and blues. These patinas are all best bought ready made from a company like Ajax (it's listed in the stained glass magazines). As a sculptor I have used both real and artificial patinas on my sculptures. Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: Don McDonald [SMTP:don@ccti.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 6:03 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ethics and format > When my friend showed me a finished free-form (these teachers don't > believe in patterns) piece she did, I commented on how nice the copper > patina was, and she said she had used her teacher's patina from her own > secret recipe. The teacher doesn't sell the stuff and won't give out her Anybody got a recipe for copper patina? Please share it if you do. Don M. McDonald begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(B0*`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`@ $```$````0`````P``, ,````+``\.``````(!_P\!````/0`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0!33510`&=L M87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !```` M$ ```&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`#`!4,`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````2 M````)V=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;2<````"`0LP`0```!4```!33510.D=,05-3 M0$)53D=)+D-/30`````#```Y``````L`0#H!````'@#V7P$````0````9VQA M-$1O=A$15-4```6````4D4Z(&5T:&ECMHD/69X!A'1O=A$15-4```` M`!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% `````'@`?# $````4````9W-P:6-E1J@@,`!Q!J! ``'@`($ $```!E````24A/4$542$%4 M24%-3D]40D5)3D=43T]"05-)0T)55%1(15-404Y$05)$0T]04$524$%424Y! M25-!0TA)159%1%=)5$A#3U!015)354Q&051%*%!/25-/3D]54T%305)%34]3 M5 `````"`0D0`0```"X%```J!0``=P<``$Q:1G6QV[-2`P`*`')C<&@0EP( 1@'0`=]A P#&5M M#> '0',I(&2_! $&\![R"X :005 =R QO'(L&P`=,!L`';!L")"_)*$$("/2 M(2$><06@;0(0&P`@`:!L&H D@G)U8F,;@".#=FEG!; @X6PP>2X@3QS!!@!)!Y'/ ` MP&S_`R ;$ A@`C ;,!] !1 <8-T`T&D?$1[ *Q%G*2,>4'0B8A] (BEF(S$< MD&G[`B H4$(:@"00!* ?`1JC?RRV))$;4"B2(E31(`B D9"?0?P1P*X$", ,0'A$" M("$2=\9E+!($('-A9B:T-&$K'[,;X'(R\&4H46YC_QJ"!) :@!YR-L0=E06@ M'A+_&\ Q9!X$)?$J-"3&*7$>I=0 ,@4* $$/\YT563308T=%3Q"Q,T= (` M(&DM,30T3>%I,1PX, % #-!9,V(@1E4#83H,@V(0H$0WL4T.8UM1!T =<%M3 M351(4#ID`B! 8S2Q+ODP('1=305:8 9@`C!:QZY7"8!'41U >21@1 60'R)P M&X %P$[@)& Q.3E93O V.AEP$+!-75=4]F]:QT:30!R &4!<\"81&UU8)R!J M-*%:QU)E.O\U@!J@#> _I"9!`,!8X%=/WUA95+1." O%31,^7J "$L$>T< MQ'4!("1S=VVB+<,Q4.\T!Y_PA@;8%,8'S96U,H4%N6?,H%%($`A& ```,`$! ` M`````P`1$ `````#`( 0_____T `!S"@OV^%9PR]`4 `"# `12*O:0R]`0L` M`( (( 8``````, ```````!&``````.%`````````P`"@ @@!@``````P `` M`````$8`````$(4````````#``6 "" &``````# ````````1@````!2A0`` MMPT``!X`)8 (( 8``````, ```````!&`````%2%```!````! ```#@N, `# M`": "" &``````# ````````1@`````!A0````````L`+X (( 8``````, ` M``````!&``````Z%`````````P`P@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````$84` M```````#`#* "" &``````# ````````1@`````8A0```````!X`08 (( 8` M`````, ```````!&`````#:%```!`````0`````````>`$* "" &``````# M````````1@`````WA0```0````$`````````'@!#@ @@!@``````P `````` M`$8`````.(4```$````!`````````!X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ``````P`- '-/TW```Q3(4` ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 03:02:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 03:02:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jerseycape.com!lsg From: "Michael Minchelli" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Hexacon Irons... Try Esico too! Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 05:51:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.05151.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I use a 200 watt Esico iron and have no complaints. I use a 250 watt Esico iron when I am using the tin plated steel rebar. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 03:19:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 03:19:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: ethics and format Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 03:13:08 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec18.19138.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The point of not sharing "secret recipes" is usually because of R&D (research and development) costs and the idea is to have people buy your product because it is unique (try getting Coca Cola to try sharing their recipe). Many bronze foundries have through much trial and error developed patinas that are like a trademark and they tend to guard their recipes quite carefully. That being said, I doubt that this is the case here where sharing the recipe would threaten their livelihood. At the same time a very little research on anyone's part will turn up hundreds of public domain recipes for patina's so why worry about getting theirs (but I do think that they should at least be willing to make it up and sell it ready made) Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: LElsbury [SMTP:LElsbury@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 12:16 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ethics and format Jerri: I have had that same experience around where I live - I hardly think I'm a threat to the teachers/shop owners with secrecy seems to be an issue. What point is there to having the copper patina if they aren't willing to share it or sell it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A +`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`@ $```$````0`````P``, ,````+``\.``````(!_P\!````/0`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0!33510`&=L M87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !```` M$ ```&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`#`!4,`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````2 M````)V=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;2<````"`0LP`0```!4```!33510.D=,05-3 M0$)53D=)+D-/30`````#```Y``````L`0#H!````'@#V7P$````0````9VQA M-$1O=A$15-4```6````4D4Z(&5T:&EC0(B $`"!U2!B!9!A''"#&< :05(F1" H"7"7$3 *P!#P M( !P9" !`#1V90D`< > `C I(%D%H'-T!" >@G09L6G%`0!A'#)T;R 1`![@ ME1G091\0;!G 8G41NT*2X%T !P'-$#8&[N>AG M`A CT&0(@00@(2/3(# #8'5G'F!M%\ >8/\D4 Q0F ]1G0 M823!82#1$0`%0 K ,1G ;&EK&< ED7)ALP$``,!R:Q_F'-!T"?#[(!$A`&<< MD L@)IL$("0`SR-P&< =$ EP9G4L A@ M8@5 +#,@,'\<02#"&;$=$!U!&; LD7??-",F*1NE-& (8&P@$@EPWRO "? F ME2S 'N%I$U $<.TG<$$RHC2Q80> (" ' $ MD$LR(!FB4SOP9&DA`$VW$4 XD 6P*$QB8 M$^(Q-DR[:3,VKP% (G$N8"+!+5 23P40WF"! M)&%;4TU44#I5UI1 80;P+@6@;5U')6]4X 9@`C!51U<)@#L`<_5,D'DR($0% MD"UP'/ %P&-)8#(@,3DY27 .(#J13E @4$U7UU1O54>V9PM@!!! (> /(&E7 M@AM7V#* :D_154=293K[*J S$6,?U#Z1`,!38%'/7U+93S1(B O%1S-**K%I M?U]@,C$A(Q$`(!(L43B#9?9X&_ (@6Y*("QQ*&(T9?\R0#=24 !DDPL@',%" M(T$;86,F M`7T)X&T@TT0A`Y$$`0I0+OU')%51>$9STC* !/1*\/\#H!#Q#R!+TB&A M,^(]P3O1^UP@7+0M"7 D`1^P71Y<$/]%X2Z$(#(LP!^P,B![,W%```!`````0`````````> M`$. "" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$` 8```%````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``)5+ ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 03:41:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 03:41:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jerseycape.com!lsg From: "Michael Minchelli" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Response to pricing Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 06:32:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.1323.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I do not make sun catchers, I just can't imagine how there will money to be made. For panels I charge a per square foot price. $125/ sq.ft. plus an additional cost for any specialty glass or metal (ie. custom bevels, solid brass came, triple glazing with tempered glass, etc.) The other factor in pricing is the complexity of the pattern. If $125 turns out to be too much you can simplify the pattern, if there is more money in the project then increase the number of pieces or introduce bevels... Hope this helped! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 06:12:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 06:11:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hal-pc.org!kkelly From: "Kathryn C. Kelly" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Response to pricing Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:10:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.21026.0> References: <<1997Dec19.1323.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users Precedence: bulk Michael, Thank you for your advice on pricing. I really thought my question was being ignored. Kathryn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 06:53:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 06:53:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Response to pricing Date: Fri, 19 Dec 97 09:00:28 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.17028.0> References: <<1997Dec19.21026.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > Michael, > Thank you for your advice on pricing. > I really thought my question was being ignored. > Kathryn > Since I don't do commercial work, I did not initially respond. Although = I cannot give you personal advice, I have a file of bungi messages regard= ing pricing that I have saved. I would be glad to forward that to you = if you would send me your e-mail address. Please don't think we were ign= oring you, Kathryn. I'm afraid right now quite a few things are being = put on the "after-Christmas" pile! (If you want proof, you should just = see my laundry room right now, and I haven't cooked anything more than = soup and sandwhiches for the last week trying to get all the projects don= e before Christmas.) As you all have probably noticed by now, I've got my own little bungi dig= est going broken down into many different files like Lamps, Cutting, Sol= dering, Patina, Software, Reinforcement, etc. If I can help anyone out= with one of these files, I'm very glad to do it. I'm actually cheating = here because being a novice I can't offer much first-hand knowledge, but = I'm more than willing to forward on others' advice. If you are interested in a digest of a subject, please E-MAIL ME PRIVATEL= Y at dawnm@fidnet.com. Happy Holidays Everyone, Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 07:16:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 07:11:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Some "Work" for Howard Date: Fri, 19 Dec 97 09:18:51 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.171851.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well, Howard wanted to know if there were any lamp questions out there, = and I just bet there's a ton of them. For one, should I begin with a panel lamp to acquire the basic of lampmak= ing before doing a "Tiffany-style" lamp? I know nothing about attaching = the hardware, etc. Secondly, Don asked a little bit back for advice about removing the tacky= wax from the lamp. He may have received his answer to his question off-= bungi, but I can't recall seeing the answer. What is your recommendation= ? Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 07:30:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 07:29:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:44:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.44430.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:glass@bungi.com >This might be a silly observation on my part but I am left handed and tw= o other people I know are also - we cut towards our body. The right handed= people cut away from their bodies. Is this a fluke or could there be something to it? LuAnn< Sorry to debunk your theory, but I'm right handed & I cut towards my oh so weary body. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 07:54:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 07:53:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: CorelDraw Magazine Article Date: Fri, 19 Dec 97 10:00:40 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.18040.0> References: <<1997Dec5.14525.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Has anyone had any luck tracking down a copy of this issue yet? Anxiously waiting, Dawn > Hello all, > > The article on designing stained glass with CorelDraw is in the October > 1997 issue. According to the issue they have a step by step process on > the web at > www.corelmag.com. > > Pat > Roses and Rainbows > (8-) > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 08:39:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:38:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tiac.net!phil7 From: Philip McRae To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Off the Subject (of late) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:34:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.63438.0> References: <<199712181659.IAA08219@mail1.teleport.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard and Elaine... Is it tacky wax just around the top of the mold (to hold in place) or tacky wax all the way? You once said which, but cobwebs obscure memory. Thanks phil7 Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > At the risk of breaking the current threads.................. > > Hopefully, the coat hangers have been hung up for awhile. Notice, however > that the usage or non-usage > of plastic hangers has not been discussed in any depth at all. Are we > missing another item which > may lead to volumes of communication? > > Hope we are (at least for a while) done with apologizing, blaming outside > influences (holiday[s]), > mis-interpretations and she said, he said, you said, we said, or > ???????????said, or did not say. > > Anyone have questions or input about lampshade making or on a broader > scale, even glass? > > Yep, it is still me, and I > say....................................................................... > > enjoy, H > > weaver51@teleport.com > http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard > enmeshed in the internet > trapped in the world wide web > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 08:55:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:54:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jackel.demon.co.uk!mike From: Mike Simpson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: pliers Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:46:45 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <199712190946.JAA00375@jackel.demon.co.uk> References: <<1997Dec18.22446.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Steve, You are right to the extent that the jaws did not have the arched lower jaw of grozing pliers, but the depth of the throat at only about 1/2" and the width of the jaws at a bit over 1/4" and above all the fact of the soft iron jaws made them unsuitable as breaking pliers. The gap between the jaws did taper towards tip but was kept constant by the paralell action. What they did, and wonderfully, was groze. To misquote an unsung philosopher from a 1930's film "It ain't what you look like that makes you what you is, it's what you does" Mike Simpson. > In message <199712181059.KAA00311@jackel.demon.co.uk>, Mike Simpson > writes > >I wonder if anybody can recognize some old grozing pliers from a > >description. I am not certain that they were made for this > >purpose although I was told that they were grozing pliers when > >I was given them. > They sound like breaking pliers to me, not grozing pliers > Steve > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 10:06:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:05:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Off the Subject (of late) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:04:46 -0800 Message-ID: <199712191805.KAA12920@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Phil, my method is just to wax the top row of glass and a few pieces at random. Once the top row has been completed, the row should NOT be able to slip down and thus the whole shade needs not to be waxed (NOTE: my methods have not been sanctioned by anyone other than me!) weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 10:13:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:13:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Dawn" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: lamp Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:12:12 -0800 Message-ID: <199712191812.KAA15302@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dawn, I have used either of two methods for hardware. 1. a spider, they come in either 3 or 4 legs...amount of panels dictate the legs, that is divisible by legs into panels. 2. vase caps...........I have most sizes in 1/8" increments starting from 2" and going to 6" and PREFER them to spiders. No problems with vase caps, other making sure they are on level before soldering. There should be some archived post on how to figure out diameters. Yes, a few panel lamps will prepare you with techniques for domes later. IMHO, long panel lamp seams are harder to solder than shorter small pieced shades. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 10:27:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:26:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 12:43:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.74333.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Bob- I tried your eye trick and my thumb doesn't stay on target = with either eye. Does that mean I'm blind? Also, when I line up my thumb with the target, I see two thumbs. Of course, that could be because it's midnight and we're still at the shop. Michael's finishing up a job that has to be installed tomorrow A.M. I'll try again tomorrow because this has me somewhat intrigued. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 11:57:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:55:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Response to pricing Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:41:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.94121.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Kathryn- I didn't seem to get your post re: pricing, but look in the archives. We recently had quite a lengthy = thread about pricing and a number of the studios responded with their pricing structures. It was quite interesting and informative. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 11:57:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:56:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Response to pricing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:54:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199712191956.TAA05102@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Dawn (et al) What an absolutely splendid idea!! ... And who said that hobbyists and learners have nothing to teach us "old bones"!!! :-> All mail filed and labelled under subject-headings, easy to pull out, easy to share (you don't happen to be a reference librarian by training?? ). Keli is another well-organized Bunginian; she compiled a list (alpha??) of all our web-sites. Perhaps the 2 of you ought to get together.... .....I wish I was as well organized.... (sigh) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Dawn wrote snip Since I don't do commercial work, I did not initially respond. Although = I cannot give you personal advice, I have a file of bungi messages regard= ing pricing that I have saved. snip As you all have probably noticed by now, I've got my own little bungi dig= est going broken down into many different files like Lamps, Cutting, Sol= dering, Patina, Software, Reinforcement, etc. If I can help anyone out= with one of these files, I'm very glad to do it. I'm actually cheating = here because being a novice I can't offer much first-hand knowledge, but = I'm more than willing to forward on others' advice. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 12:23:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 12:22:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Eye Dominance (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:24:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.102417.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The best way to see which eye is dominant is to use a method that id = taught by NRA instructors to help students determine if they are = shooting that is opposite eye to hand. Make a diamond shape using both hands by putting your two forefingers = together and two thumbs together. Like Diamond Dallas Paige does on = WCW----------Hold your hands at arms length away for you and with both = eyes open, sight in an object across the room within the diamond you = created. Slowly bring your hands to your face, keeping the object in the = diamond. You will find that you will bring the diamond over one eye or = the other. Hope this helps. Now lets go shoot up a few targets. Linda Campbell NRA Pistol Instructor and glass hobbiest. Michael J. Greer[SMTP:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] Sent: Friday, December 19, 1997 12:43 PM To: INTERNET:glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Hi Bob- I tried your eye trick and my thumb doesn't stay on target =3D with either eye. Does that mean I'm blind? Also, when I line up my thumb with the target, I see two thumbs. Of course, that could be because it's midnight and we're still at the shop. Michael's finishing up a job that has to be installed tomorrow A.M. I'll try again tomorrow because this has me somewhat intrigued. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 12:24:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 12:24:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ethics and format Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:19:15 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.201915.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-17 20:08:49 EST, you write: > "but you might still be the > better human being". > > Why is this tacky? It sounds > like a compliment to me or at > the very least a self-deprecating > remark. > > ?? > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios Albert uses that saying a lot and at first I tried not to think too much on it, the brain can't always go in other directions, but I had to think about it and know whether he is being polite, which I think he is, or being sarcastic. So if it is being in that term (sarcastic) it would be rude. But if you start to know Albert you can feel it out deb who is still enjoying bungi friends, :) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 13:11:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 13:09:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: Off the Subject (of late) (now Butyl putty) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:20:01 -0600 Message-ID: <199712192106.PAA24147@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >> >>I asked a while ago about butyl putty use in leaded glass windows. Very >>few people responded. Does that mean there is little experience of the >>material and so of its weathering properties? > >Why would you want to use butyl putty on a leaded glass window? We had a very thorough round table ( flying fur and all) a while back on options for the traditional window cement. One of the best in my opinion. I think we all learned something from that one. question for the computer people.......what would it take to make the bungi archives *searchable* ? it sure would help. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 14:01:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:00:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Eye Dominance (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:50:17 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.85017.0> References: <<1997Dec19.102417.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk Have we found the person who has discovered what to do with projects that don't come out 'quite right'??? 8^}> Should get the award for 'Best mixture of vocation and avocation. Linda Campbell wrote: > Hope this helps. Now lets go shoot up a few targets. > > Linda Campbell > NRA Pistol Instructor and glass hobbiest. 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?'"Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 14:08:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:06:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: experience, pro, hobbiest and time wasted Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:03:59 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.22359.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Howard you lost me on this one, you seem to have a lot of patience in explaining things but in your last post you were kinda negative on helping others. Are you just upset with the ones that pick your brain and then don't get any better and the ones that do business elsewhere but still want free advice. There is a shop that I go to for glass, and I've told others about this shop before, the man that owns it seems to really know his stuff but he is blunt, and acts like you are dumb, AND he tries to come on to you too. OK I guess only if you are female :) I would love to buy ALL my supplies from him as his shop is HUGE and he could be a wealth of information, which would have someone buying more from him. But the fact that I hate his attitude and the shop is 40 minutes away I try to do as little business with him as possible. Which I'm sure he doesn't really care about anyway. So when I go I bring someone with me (I don't like to be alone with him) and I only shop for certain items that I don't want to order. I hope you haven't turned into a shop owner like that, just think about the one that you might miss, that could be the next master in glass. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 14:09:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:08:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:04:08 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.2248.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I'm not comfortable scoring away from me, I feel like I do on roller skates, like the wheels are getting away from me and I'm gonna fall flat on my ... palm, of my hand, but ice skates I have control. thought you would like my explanation of the way I do it. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 14:09:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:09:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Learning new skills Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:04:07 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.2247.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-18 09:08:15 EST, you write: > I've never had a class. The only book our library carries ( which is where I got my data) is called STAINED GLASS- A BASIC MANUAL written by Barbara and Gerry Clow. Hi from bungi group you sound like me, I too live in Tin buck two but our library does so much sensership we don't have a lot to choose from. (I'm in the BIBLE belt) Keep up the good work, what I have learned from NOT having any classes is to keep trying new things and learn from your mistakes and practice makes perfect. You can't learn unless you try new things. Also pick anyones brain who is willing to let you. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 14:14:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:12:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Is it just me? Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:04:05 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.2245.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-17 23:04:06 EST, you write: > My, everyone seems very sensitive and touchy. Sorry Albert, my excuse, if I'm allowed, its December and WAY too much to do... with glass projects waiting to be finished, shopping to be done, traveling plans (mine not doing to well) being set, and another business to buy and finalize, WHEW I'm exhausted.... and I guess I will only speak for myself I tend to blow off steam every so often, but I get over things as quick as I get myself into them. since this is a mail list with so many people it tends to take a while for everyone to add there $.02 so it drags on alittle longer than usual. When I get back from Florida I will be much better I promise :) deb :) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 14:24:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:23:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:19:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.121943.0> References: <<1997Dec19.15320.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LElsbury wrote: > > This might be a silly observation on my part but I am left handed and two > other people I know are also - we cut towards our body. The right handed > people cut away from their bodies. Is this a fluke or could there be > something to it? LuAnn > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass acually that makes sense. mainly the bulky part of my arm is in the way. for a lefty, just your thumb area is in the way. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 14:24:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:24:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ethics and format Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:31:53 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Albert uses that saying a lot and at first I tried not to think too much on > it, the brain can't always go in other directions, but I had to think > about it and know whether he is being polite, which I think he is, or being > sarcastic. So if it is being in that term (sarcastic) it would be rude. But > if you start to know Albert you can feel it out Yes, we are all (or should all be) friends. And I guess my constant comment (although I didn't realize it was that constant) about being a good human being is because I have that as a constant aim with my kids ... that they become good human beings. Sorry, I guess I'm like that: a fairly stock line of sayings, adages, comments and old-mannisms. I certainly wasn't being sarcastic or at least didn't mean to be. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 14:33:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:28:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: CDs and mosaics Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:23:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.122321.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971218202327.3067ba7e@pop.erols.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk clipper1@erols.com wrote: > > Merry Christmas all! > > I've been playing with an idea an wanted to ask for some opinions > before getting too far along. I keep getting CD's in the mail from aol, > compuserv etc. that I've pretty much been using as coasters. But I had > another idea of how to use them recently. > I've been designing a mosaic table top using the solar system as a > theme. (Think of one of opening images from Star Trek NG). I was considering > mixing in some thin 'rings' cut from these CDs to mix in with the colored > ones around Saturn and the pale one for Jupiter - and maybe using a couple > tiny bits to add some twinkle of distant stars in the background. Now CD's > are not quite really glass, and I'm not sure how careful I might have to be > to prevent anything from eventually compromising the ringed mirror look in > them that inspired this. > Also, does anyone think something like this could be used in a > foiled project? My sister thought it would a neat bit of halo for the > high-tech angel I promised I'd make her someday... > > Any thought? > > Carol > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the cd's might be scratched from the grout. if they are used in a suncatcher, they need to be trapped in between to layers of glass, cd's melt... though you could make a non ringing windchime, and just let them dangle from a string. i think some even re-roofed they're house with them; AOL disks i think... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 14:33:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:29:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:04:02 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec19.2242.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-17 20:22:51 EST, you write: > << I just tried the coat hanger idea (again). I still cannot get the > solder to adhere. I've tried steel wool until the metal is bright > and shiny silver, I've tried heating with a torch until it was red > hot to burn off the coatings then using anywhere from a touch to a > flood of flux. The solder still will not stick to the coat hanger. > I'm welcoming any ideas on this...I have a closet full of coat > hangers that would just love to be used for something. > > Don M. McDonald I just asked Hubby about this cause I've seen him use a coat hanger in a pinch when soldering. He said you have to use a LOT of flux, he uses paste, and it does a lot of splattering, so wear goggles, and its one reason he doesn't use them often. Remember too that his soldering is just using the hanger for solder and not soldering the hanger. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 14:36:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:34:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:30:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.123018.0> References: <<1997Dec18.173229.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenn Spicer wrote: > > I may be wrong Mike, but I think the Idea of brazing the coat hanger was to > braze it first so that it would be coated, then the suncatcher could be > soldered to it in turn, so no cracking , no melting. > > Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: M. Savad [SMTP:morn@nac.net] > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 1997 2:37 PM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies > > brazing would'nt work anyway, it needs a torch, and it will crack the > glass, and melt out the solder. maybe if the coat hanger was coated with > brass or copper. maybe the solder will stick to that. > > ---Mike Savad > > Name: WINMAIL.DAT > Part 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream) > Encoding: x-uuencode > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i wonder if solder would stick to the braze? since some oxidation occured. also how easy (or worth it), is it to tin a rod by brazing. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 15:32:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:30:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:29:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712192329.SAA06223@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk deb, Tell me I didn't read this right. You are telling me that your husband uses a hanger for solder...as in place of oh say...50/50 or 60/40 solder. And if this is true.....what is he melting that steel with???? my best, pj >I just asked Hubby about this cause I've seen him use a coat hanger in a pinch >when soldering. He said you have to use a LOT of flux, he uses paste, and it >does a lot of splattering, so wear goggles, and its one reason he doesn't use >them often. Remember too that his soldering is just using the hanger for >solder and not soldering the hanger. >deb >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 17:15:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:11:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: time waste...and "cheek" Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:09:41 -0800 Message-ID: <199712200111.RAA16230@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Deb........... I have infinite patience with whose show a genuine concern to learn something they are serious about doing., and not just filling time. I do not like to debate methods and merit with people who have never done the item in question. It may be egotistical, but I am working on #1,041...of which over 1k have been shades (experience I think so). YES, I too have picked up tips from others and do not blindly ignore them. As for "doing" business..........some of my "hot shot" wheeler and dealer type students, have been "clever" enough to get stuff from the catalog sellers...FINE!!!!! However, they usually cannot spend hours picking over glass, cajoling me into "giving" stuff away, asking lots of relevant and irrelevant questions, getting immediate gratification and so forth. One of my pet students got me to match a price (I insisted on the same volume and minimum the cataloger wanted, so far so good. Next I added freight, a sore point with the student, like I did not have freight to pay. Lastly, I said come back in 10 working days to get the glass. Did indeed piss off the student....I was at least happy! There were over the years a few other retail glass shops in the area. I respected the one who was there prior to me and he was VERY good at the technical end of came work. He did very little to no cu work. Other people thought that a glass shop would be a "gold mine", as I do NO advertising, and keep a very low profile and most outsiders do not know of me. I have inherited students from other shops and the amount of useless stuff they have been hustled for is appalling. In most cases they did not come to me with the skills I teach my beginners. I also show my students how to make their own tools (jigs, rheostats, fids and so forth). I make all of my equipment available as well..........in school, not at HOME! Will lend back-up equipment for any thing BOUGHT from me that fails and assist in warranty work. I teach lampshade making, NO suncatchers, and after a few panel lamps, my students are free to do a window if they wish. Spend 50 years doing windows and suncatchers, let someone ask for a lamp and see if you can design the size, pick the right density of glass, do a good job and price it to earn a fair wage for it. I can still remember most of the 200+ students and generally what lamp they did and the glass they used. I never shoot a student down, and try to find something positive as well as encourage them to better. I, too was once a beginner, but had the good fortune to teach my self. Some of my students have brought "clients" to my shop to pick glass for their commissions, and do deeply encourage them. A piece of a sale to my student is more than I get when Wal-Mart sells an imported shade. When one deals with me, I can give as good as I get! weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 18:02:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:02:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:02:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1997Dec19.1623.0> References: <<1997Dec19.44430.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk If you are keeping score ( ;-p ) I'm also a righthanded drag towards me person. But if it's any consolation the woman who taught me is indeed lefthanded. Mary On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > Message text written by INTERNET:glass@bungi.com > >This might be a silly observation on my part but I am left handed and tw= > o > other people I know are also - we cut towards our body. The right handed= > > people cut away from their bodies. Is this a fluke or could there be > something to it? LuAnn< > > Sorry to debunk your theory, but I'm right handed & I cut towards > my oh so weary body. > Christie A. Wood > Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 18:29:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:28:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: epix.net!age49 From: age49@epix.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Intro Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:29:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.16299.0> References: <<199712200111.RAA16230@mail1.teleport.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello you all. My name is Dan. I make and sell soaps at craftshows, and thanks to another soaper posting about a gorgeus lamp on a site on the net, I am getting quite interested on stained glass. I don't want to bore anyone with newbie questions, so is there a place with FAQ, or anyone can recomend a good beginer book? I am planning to take some classes after the holidays. I live in NE PA near the Scranton-Wilkes Barre area. any crafter/s in that area? Oh, and yes I am plannig to soak my brains with a lot of your questions and answers. Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 18:34:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:34:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eaglei.net!spinn From: spinn@eaglei.net (Stephen Pinn) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: CorelDraw Magazine Article Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 02:33:56 GMT Message-ID: <1997Dec20.23356.0> References: <<1997Dec19.18040.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: PinnCorp Precedence: bulk Dawn, I have the article (actually there are 2 articles, 1 using Corel Draw andother using Corel Paint) The paint version, to me, is better! What did you need from the articles? I can scan & email but they will be large (and also against copyright agreements). But if you don't tell I won't! Steve On Fri, 19 Dec 97 10:00:40 PST, you wrote: >Has anyone had any luck tracking down a copy of this issue yet? =20 > >Anxiously waiting, >Dawn > >=20 >> Hello all, >>=20 >> The article on designing stained glass with CorelDraw is in the = October >> 1997 issue. According to the issue they have a step by step process on >> the web at >> www.corelmag.com. >>=20 >> Pat >> Roses and Rainbows >> (8-) >>=20 >>=20 >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 19:08:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 19:08:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: Northernlights To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: CorelDraw Magazine Article Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:09:52 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.15952.0> References: <<1997Dec20.23356.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm also interested in reading those articles...any chance I can take a peek too? I haven't worked with Corel much, but I have played with programs that help you create a quilt pattern (might be similar). Thanks!!! Tracy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 19:41:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 19:41:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!jkeane From: Hee Sun Stained Glass To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Grinders, If you have to use one , which one Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:41:51 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971219224151.007551a0@pop.erols.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well my old faithful grinder finally gave up the go, accompanied of course by a nice boom as it died. so I figured that I might as well replace it, which one do prefer, I would like a setup which might allow me to do some beveling. Thanks for all the great information I always manage to get off this list. Well back to foiling, I've got a panel to finish yet tonight and it's already 10:30 PM. Robert Robert & Jeanne Keane Hee Sun Stained Glass "Bestow Pleasure" P.O. Box 322 Glyndon, MD 21071 410-833-3007 jkeane@erols.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 20:16:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:15:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (aka Tracy)" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Eye Dominance (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:16:54 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec19.161654.0> References: <<1997Dec19.102417.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tried the diamond trick -- does it mean whatever eye I don't cover up with the diamond is the eye I'm using? I don't think I did it right anyway...ended up covering up both eyes in the end! On second attempt I ended up covering up my right eye. As far as cutting goes, I'm finding I can cut with either hand, one as comfortable as the other. Is that unusual? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 20:48:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:46:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: clarityconnect.com!rlk From: rlk@clarityconnect.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Cyberdog-AltBoundary-0004FDE2" Subject: please remove me from the list Date: 20 Dec 97 11:56:04 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --Cyberdog-AltBoundary-0004FDE2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please remove me from the list. Thanks. --Cyberdog-AltBoundary-0004FDE2 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 12Palatinoplease remove me from the list. Thanks. --Cyberdog-AltBoundary-0004FDE2-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 20:48:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:47:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry & Linda McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Christmas wishes Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:44:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971220044440.0068dec4@mail.kwic.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Alison; Have you been properly thanked for your neat Christmas messages? I thank you very much and a Merry Ho Ho to you too. Linda. GARRY & LINDA McKENNA TILLSONBURG ONT CANADA 519 842-9909 LINDA'S HOBBY: STAINED GLASS GARRY'S HOBBY: AMATURE RADIO CALL VE3MNV ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 19 20:49:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:47:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry & Linda McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Lamps Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:45:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971220044511.0068bf5c@mail.kwic.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Howard: I'm usually a lurker here and wish to welcome you back, I need your advice about tiffany-style lamp making. I have a Worden 360 lamp mold, glass and pattern all ready to go (for the last year or so). I have a few questions. First, do you start at the bottom and work up or the top and work down? Also, do you cut, grind, foil and place each piece as you come to it or cut all, grind all etc. If there is,say a 3 pattern repeat, do you do a section and move on to the next, or do you cut 3 of each as you come to them? My New Year's resolution is to kick my behind and get to this project - hope you will help. Linda GARRY & LINDA McKENNA TILLSONBURG ONT CANADA 519 842-9909 LINDA'S HOBBY: STAINED GLASS GARRY'S HOBBY: AMATURE RADIO CALL VE3MNV ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 02:28:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 02:26:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: time wasters Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:26:49 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.102649.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 17:03 19/12/97 EST, deb wrote: >Howard you lost me on this one, you seem to have a lot of patience in >explaining things but in your last post you were kinda negative on helping >others. Are you just upset with the ones that pick your brain and then don't >get any better and the ones that do business elsewhere but still want free >advice. It sounds like Howard has had just too many lately of the kind of "Customers" we often experience. Ther are certain stained glass enthusiasts who try to use retail shops as a library or information centre. they do not think that when we spend maybe an hour or so showing them glass, demonstrating and letting them try out tools and advising them on how to carry out the project they have in mind we have a right to get annoyed if they then walk out of our shop making notes of what they should order by post from other suppliers. Our worst example of this was last summer when a family from the Midlands down on holiday visited our shop. They said they were keen on getting started in stained glass and we gave them the full treatment, allowing all four family members to have a go at cutting glass, use the grinder and two different soldering irons so they could decide which models to buy. After 3.5 hours I started to assemble the tools, books and foil etc that they were talking about getting, only to be brought up short when the father said - no we don't want to buy it all now. Thinking he meant that they would return just prior to going back at the end of their holiday, I offered to package it all up so they would be able just to pop in to collect on their way home - but was told that they already had a mail order catalogue from someone else in the car, and just wanted to know what to order, as they had never seen a stained glass shop before and didn't know what the different tools were for. They seemed amazed when I expressed politely that if all our customers acted this way we would soon go out of business. But of course I know that none of you bungians would act this way - but this tale may explain why occasionally you may find that detailed enquiries as to the use of materials and advice on particular tools etc may be met by guarded responses by the retail shop owner, and why visitors who start off by saying - No, I'm not looking for anything in particular, just wanted to see what you sell - when asked if the shopkeeper can help them, may not get the friendly welcome we try to give all our customers. We know that we will need to spend time with beginners advising them on what is available and helping them design projects and we are happy to do this if their attitude to us leaves us feeling appreciated, not used. Well - must get off my soap box and back in the shop to entertain all my Christmas shopping customers again. Elizabeth & Sam Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 04:17:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 04:14:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: jerseycape.com!lsg From: "Michael Minchelli" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Pricing: Archives ???? Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:06:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.263.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk So just what is the best way to scan through the archives? How would I find the recent articles on pricing? I tried to download the digest-current file and waited at least 20 minutes to this point and am still waiting, I have a 28.8 (X2) modem, should it be taking this long? Michael at lsg@jerseycape.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 07:14:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:14:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Christmas wishes Date: Sat, 20 Dec 97 10:15:46 -0500 Message-ID: <199712201514.KAA00599@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Alison, Let me add my "thank you" for the Christmas Card and particularly the message, like a little Peace Dove, smoothing all the ruffled feathers that have been flying around here lately! Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Lots of Great Glassing to you for 1998. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 07:23:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:23:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Intro Date: Sat, 20 Dec 97 10:25:00 -0500 Message-ID: <199712201523.KAA00917@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >My name is Dan. I make and sell soaps at craftshows, and thanks to >another soaper posting about a gorgeus lamp on a site on the net, I am >getting quite interested on stained glass. I don't want to bore anyone >with newbie questions, so is there a place with FAQ, or anyone can >recomend a good beginer book? >I am planning to take some classes after the holidays. I live in NE PA >near the Scranton-Wilkes Barre area. any crafter/s in that area? > >Oh, and yes I am plannig to soak my brains with a lot of your questions >and answers. > >Dan Hi Dan, welcome to the group. You will learn lots here! The best beginners book I've run into is "Introduction to Stained Glass, a Teaching Manual" by Randy & Judy Wardell. It has lots of beginners' projects that are rated as to difficulty and some pretty clear directions. Good luck, enjoy it. Warning: It's addictive! Suzanne (I'm in Bucks County, probably a couple of hours away) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 07:34:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:33:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Intro Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 09:49:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.44948.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by Dan: >I am planning to take some classes after the holidays. I live in NE PA near the Scranton-Wilkes Barre area. any crafter/s in that area?< Well, you are close enough to go check out Warner-Crivellaro over in Allentown. Besides having on of the largest, nicest, and best stocked retail stores in the east coast, I do believe they teach classes. Give 'em a call at 1-800-523-4242 or 610-264-1100. Christie A. Wood (who does not own stock in W-C but would like to) Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 07:53:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:52:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Away Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:52:48 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, Just thought I'd let you all know I'm leaving to Disneyland tonight and will not be back until Christmas Eve. I may check my mail but not as often as usual. Have a wonderful Christmas and a great '98. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 08:37:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 08:37:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: televar.com!fishbait From: Fishbait To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Water Cutting Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 08:34:58 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.03458.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Got this little goody in my cool fact of the day and wondered if this might mean there is a cutter to use with water that is on the market for us stained glass people. Bonnie Clark What common household material can cut steel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Under the right conditions, water can cut steel! Waterjet cutting is an amazing technology that pumps water so quickly that it can cut through metal. These speeds are achieved by forcing water through a tiny sapphire hole a tenth of a millimeter across. The water is squeezed at a pressure of up to 60,000 pounds per square inch. (By comparison, the pressure of the atmosphere is only 14 pounds per square inch.) This process creates a thin "water laser" that can cut through steel, plastics, glass, paper, and woven materials without the distortion and shredding produced by normal cutting methods. You can learn more about waterjet cutting at . ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 08:41:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 08:41:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ccti.net!don From: "Don McDonald" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: time wasters Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:39:56 +0000 Message-ID: <199712201107.FAA06001@eve.corp.ccti.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > After 3.5 hours I started to assemble the tools, books and foil etc that > they were talking about getting, only to be brought up short when the father > said - no we don't want to buy it all now. > Thinking he meant that they would return just prior to going back at the end > of their holiday, I offered to package it all up so they would be able just > to pop in to collect on their way home - but was told that they already had > a mail order catalogue from someone else in the car, and just wanted to know > what to order, as they had never seen a stained glass shop before and didn't > know what the different tools were for. This kind of behavior on the part of a "customer" is just plain rude. I value the personal attention, helpful hints, demonstrations, explanations, and suggestions that I get from my local glass supplier. The way I show that appreciation is by making all my purchases through that same supplier. Come to think of it, my local supplier sells as in the nearly lost art of salesmanship rather than just "shopkeep" passively. They know my preferences and even drop me an e-mail when something comes in that I might be interested in seeing. So, if any of you folks are in the New Orleans area, check out my retailer at Flowers Etc. on the corner of Veteran's and Orion. Then buy from them. Don M. McDonald Web Design Corporate Communications Technology ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 08:41:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 08:41:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Away Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:39:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712201639.LAA08701@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenna, The best of the holidays to you and your family...............and............... Need someone to carry your bags????? my best, pj >Hi everyone, > >Just thought I'd let you all know I'm leaving to Disneyland tonight >and will not be back until Christmas Eve. I may check my mail >but not as often as usual. Have a wonderful Christmas and a great >'98. > > >-- >Glenna Rand >gjr@bungi.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 09:23:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 09:22:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Away Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 09:22:53 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Away" on Dec 20, 11:39, pj friend writes:] > Glenna, > > The best of the holidays to you and your family...............and............... > > Need someone to carry your bags????? Thanks,...too bad I travel light...:^( I'll pass a hi to Mickey. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 10:36:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:36:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: fast.net!charles From: charles To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: time wasters-Positive Attitudes Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:35:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.83529.0> References: <<1997Dec20.102649.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk studio@stainedglass.co.uk wrote: > > At 17:03 19/12/97 EST, deb wrote: > >Howard you lost me on this one, you seem to have a lot of patience in > >explaining things but in your last post you were kinda negative on > >helping others. Are you just upset with the ones that pick your > >brain and then don't get any better and the ones that do business > >elsewhere but still want free advice. > > It sounds like Howard has had just too many lately of the kind of > "Customers" we often experience. > > Ther are certain stained glass enthusiasts who try to use retail shops > as a library or information centre. they do not think that when we > spend maybe an hour or so showing them glass, demonstrating and > letting them try out tools and advising them on how to carry out the > project they have in mind we have a right to get annoyed if they then > walk out of our shop making notes of what they should order by post > from other suppliers. Our worst example of this was last summer when > a family from the Midlands down on holiday visited our shop. They > said they were keen on getting started in stained glass and we gave > them the full treatment, allowing all four family members to have a > go at cutting glass, use the grinder and two different soldering > irons so they could decide which models to buy. After 3.5 hours I > started to assemble the tools, books and foil etc that they were > talking about getting, only to be brought up short when the father > said - no we don't want to buy it all now. Thinking he meant that > they would return just prior to going back at the end of their > holiday, I offered to package it all up so they would be able just > to pop in to collect on their way home - but was told that they > already had a mail order catalogue from someone else in the car, > and just wanted to know what to order, as they had never seen a > stained glass shop before and didn't know what the different tools > were for. They seemed amazed when I expressed politely that if all > our customers acted this way we would soon go out of business. Why would you expect a customer to be aware of OR care about the store owners concerns? Are you aware of the customers concerns? Have to pay for school books, dental work, fix the car etc.? One of my pet peeves is employment costs; Social Security Insurance, Medicare, PA State Employment Tax, Workers Compensation Insurance, health insurance, etc. All of these impact if it is economical to hire people to do specific jobs. Does the customer know or care about these costs which are not directly related to serving the customer? I work every day with my employees, they are dedicated and smart-yet they are not aware of MY (the store owners) concerns. Why would I expect a customer that never spent time with me to be aware or care about my concerns? You may be intelligent enough to recognize the connection between sales and staying in business but don't expect that of the general public. > But of course I know that none of you bungians would act this way - Now wait a minuet... in my other life I am a Total Jerk. ;-) (thanks Len) > but this tale may explain why occasionally you may find that detailed > enquiries as to the use of materials and advice on particular tools > etc may be met by guarded responses by the retail shop owner, and > why visitors who start off by saying - No, I'm not looking for > anything in particular, just wanted to see what you sell - when > asked if the shopkeeper can help them, may not get the friendly > welcome we try to give all our customers. We know that we will > need to spend time with beginners advising them on what is > available and helping them design projects and we are happy to do > this if their attitude to us leaves us feeling appreciated, not used. Isn't this reversed? The customer has to make you feel comfortable before he is dealt with on a friendly basis? The customer is on YOUR turf, he is the one that is (or should be) uncomfortable. The mark of a good sales person is how fast and well can the sales person make the prospective customer feel at home. Think of all the times things have been posted on bungi about customers not feeling comfortable and therefore not purchasing much at the "uncomfortable" store. We do whatever we can to make the customer comfortable. At one time we hired a person just to greet customers at the door. That worked out well until we realized the greeter was not as knowledgeable about stained glass as we thought they were. BTW the US has the tightest employment market in 24 years. We are presently unable to fill some jobs. The real complaint here is: does someone else get the fruit of my labor? Warner-Crivellaro does some mail order. Do you think your nightmare "customers" would have called us or someone else in the mail order business? I doubt it. Every year we must send out more catalogs than the number of people that do stained glass, that qualifies us to answer the question. You can rest assured if they did not buy from you, they probably did not buy from anyone. There are two good questions about this; 1) Does Warner-Crivellaro as a mail order company get customers that check out everything and buy nothing? Yes, we provide as high a level of service and information as possible to everyone regardless of if they make a purchase. We know that in the long run the customer will recognize the opportunities we provide for them. Do we provide more information to the buying customer? Of course because we utilize the additional time spent with the customer. 2) How to deal with non-purchasing customers? Make your store as self service as possible. Then it is not as necessary to hold the customers hand. Among other things we make things self service by having over 1,500 colors of glass pre-cut and pre-priced in hobby sheets in the showroom alone. It may not be possible to be totally self service, we will never be, but you can significantly cut wasted time in retrieving items for customers and the customer generally prefers shopping without a "hovering" presence. BTW, everyone has off days but I wouldn't permit anyone to work for me even packing boxes in the warehouse who has a negative attitude about customers. This includes non-purchasing customers. Those of you who came to GlassVisions '97 saw the results of these positive company wide attitudes. Our warehouse and production people did a terrific job helping customers and received as much praise as our regular sales clerks. Some customers are a strain to deal with, if you choose to insult or belittle them the situation will be more unpleasant with no possibility of making the sale. As long as people are not abusive or insulting we treat them with the respect all of us like to receive while shopping. Charles Warner Warner-Crivellaro http://www.warner-criv.com/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 11:20:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:19:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: time wasters Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:13:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.31338.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well said Elizabeth and Sam, how does that saying go about walking a mile in another man's shoes, and I think that before being too critical readers should think about the why people have limits to being used, there is only so much time, and this is our living, and most want to help those who are sincere, it's a two way street. I myself have volunteered what has added up to over year in full time donation of time , in my art occupation alone, and was glad to give it because it was appreciated, but when people assume it is there right to be given my free time I myself start to get annoyed. Those of you who have not had the exposure to this one way street may find it hard to understand, but try. As Charles Warner said "As long as people are not abusive or insulting we treat them with the respect all of us like to receive while shopping." Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: studio@stainedglass.co.uk [SMTP:studio@stainedglass.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, December 20, 1997 2:27 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: time wasters At 17:03 19/12/97 EST, deb wrote: >Howard you lost me on this one, you seem to have a lot of patience in >explaining things but in your last post you were kinda negative on helping >others. Are you just upset with the ones that pick your brain and then don't >get any better and the ones that do business elsewhere but still want free >advice. It sounds like Howard has had just too many lately of the kind of "Customers" we often experience.................................................... ......Well - must get off my soap box and back in the shop to entertain all my Christmas shopping customers again. Elizabeth & Sam Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C 3`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`@ $```$````0`````P``, ,````+``\.``````(!_P\!````/0`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0!33510`&=L M87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !```` M$ ```&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`#`!4,`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````2 M````)V=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;2<````"`0LP`0```!4```!33510.D=,05-3 M0$)53D=)+D-/30`````#```Y``````L`0#H!````'@#V7P$````0````9VQA MPV]`1X`< `!````$0```%)%.B!T:6UE('=A8TQ^=;?2GC9$=&]V$1%4U0`````'@`># $````%```` M4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!0```!G``@0`0```&4```!714Q,4T%)1$5,25I!0D542$%.1%-! 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N!: N=8$?H%M33510.E_?_6#F75!%7N &8 (P7T<&$.]5 M$ L@&Z :D$1.T0;0'@$C`= :D#$Y.5/ ,CJ2,E/ 04UC=U1O7T>M8+- .! 7 M\&EA`6UC>!AU8FI-$5]'4F4Z_S&$-1$NL!!@6[]X'=9HE] 2/,^2/\:P$,2/K()`"FA,;$R M04$&_QJ0/K(0<$P1*B(D8AT0"0#_,Y$M\#/R"? KL!UQ<65 0?<+8B"C'W%G M!" X$AV!/K'_**%K82/0*9(^LR8B',%6X/D_<&5G,A%*$@.@*E(;P7]Q91W3 M8/!'8 <0'6 ^LFK_): %0# 0$'%,.#2!&R544?,?H'@C8G(+<2>U.'$QX?XG M76!Q=#U4(\ 9T6N!?X:_?>D:\#@!*X%;`4 P;!!P_SA1(%(<82F@`Q #("G3 M.Y*_<64AT"C@*[!\`5'*21MQ_PA@&C!.)7'5+W(_PGRS(.+_`X$CP M@+K F ML3)R(W%YHKE-AR)#?,$#<"'Q(DM2OS)P+K #H$!!!G%ULBZ-K]^.OX_/2.2/ MU!CC+2%```!`````0`````````>`$. M"" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$````% 5````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``&F\ ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 11:21:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:21:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: CorelDraw and Stained Glass Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:17:21 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.51721.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Recently went to a demo of CorelDraw8. Some Corel Magazine people were there and I discussed the article with them. I asked for permission to scan the article and send it to the group. The reps couldn't give me an answer as far as the legalities of it but they said they would get back with me. I have every confidence in the world they will. In the meantime I have a few copies of the issue (that they allowed me to abscond with) and would be more than happy to snail mail. I will send them to the first members who email or post the snail -mail address, with the understanding that they in turn pass them on to other members who requested them. At the moment I'm unsure of how to reach our friends abroad. In the meantime, I'll still work with CorelMag on the posting idea. Another thought (I'm just full of them today) is to contact CorelMag and request a back issue. Pat Roses & Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 11:42:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:41:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: time wasters-Positive Attitudes Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:37:54 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.53754.0> References: <<1997Dec20.83529.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Some of us who have business sense will realize that you do business with more than one vendor or store, even if it costs a little more. The value is that in the future you are not at the mercy of a single source for anything. Personally, I go to shops look around and see if I can use anything in the store. Seldom do I ever wander out without making a minimal purchase. Take a tip from the Mom & Pop video tape stores that used to be everywhere. Now about the only place you can rent a video is from the big boys like Hollywood or Blockbuster. They never ask "How's you son or daughter?" or "I'm sorry to hear about your wife?" . On the other hand, The customer is not always right. There will always be that 5% ignorance factor. Rest assured that these are some of the people you see on TV that have been scammed out of thier life savings by a "Get-Rich-Quick" scheme. Pat Roses and Rainbows charles wrote: > studio@stainedglass.co.uk wrote: > > > > At 17:03 19/12/97 EST, deb wrote: > > >Howard you lost me on this one, you seem to have a lot of patience in > > >explaining things but in your last post you were kinda negative on > > >helping others. Are you just upset with the ones that pick your > > >brain and then don't get any better and the ones that do business > > >elsewhere but still want free advice. > > > > It sounds like Howard has had just too many lately of the kind of > > "Customers" we often experience. > > > > Ther are certain stained glass enthusiasts who try to use retail shops > > as a library or information centre. they do not think that when we > > spend maybe an hour or so showing them glass, demonstrating and > > letting them try out tools and advising them on how to carry out the > > project they have in mind we have a right to get annoyed if they then > > walk out of our shop making notes of what they should order by post > > from other suppliers. Our worst example of this was last summer when > > a family from the Midlands down on holiday visited our shop. They > > said they were keen on getting started in stained glass and we gave > > them the full treatment, allowing all four family members to have a > > go at cutting glass, use the grinder and two different soldering > > irons so they could decide which models to buy. After 3.5 hours I > > started to assemble the tools, books and foil etc that they were > > talking about getting, only to be brought up short when the father > > said - no we don't want to buy it all now. Thinking he meant that > > they would return just prior to going back at the end of their > > holiday, I offered to package it all up so they would be able just > > to pop in to collect on their way home - but was told that they > > already had a mail order catalogue from someone else in the car, > > and just wanted to know what to order, as they had never seen a > > stained glass shop before and didn't know what the different tools > > were for. They seemed amazed when I expressed politely that if all > > our customers acted this way we would soon go out of business. > > Why would you expect a customer to be aware of OR care about the store > owners concerns? Are you aware of the customers concerns? Have to > pay for school books, dental work, fix the car etc.? One of my pet > peeves is employment costs; Social Security Insurance, Medicare, > PA State Employment Tax, Workers Compensation Insurance, health > insurance, etc. All of these impact if it is economical to hire people > to do specific jobs. Does the customer know or care about these costs > which are not directly related to serving the customer? I work > every day with my employees, they are dedicated and smart-yet they > are not aware of MY (the store owners) concerns. Why would I expect > a customer that never spent time with me to be aware or care about my > concerns? You may be intelligent enough to recognize the connection > between sales and staying in business but don't expect that of the > general public. > > > But of course I know that none of you bungians would act this way - > > Now wait a minuet... in my other life I am a Total Jerk. ;-) (thanks > Len) > > > but this tale may explain why occasionally you may find that detailed > > enquiries as to the use of materials and advice on particular tools > > etc may be met by guarded responses by the retail shop owner, and > > why visitors who start off by saying - No, I'm not looking for > > anything in particular, just wanted to see what you sell - when > > asked if the shopkeeper can help them, may not get the friendly > > welcome we try to give all our customers. We know that we will > > need to spend time with beginners advising them on what is > > available and helping them design projects and we are happy to do > > this if their attitude to us leaves us feeling appreciated, not used. > > Isn't this reversed? The customer has to make you feel comfortable > before he is dealt with on a friendly basis? The customer is on YOUR > turf, he is the one that is (or should be) uncomfortable. The mark of > a good sales person is how fast and well can the sales person make the > prospective customer feel at home. Think of all the times things > have been posted on bungi about customers not feeling comfortable > and therefore not purchasing much at the "uncomfortable" store. > > We do whatever we can to make the customer comfortable. > At one time we hired a person just to greet customers at the door. > That worked out well until we realized the greeter was not as > knowledgeable about stained glass as we thought they were. BTW > the US has the tightest employment market in 24 years. We are > presently unable to fill some jobs. > > The real complaint here is: does someone else get the fruit of > my labor? > > Warner-Crivellaro does some mail order. Do you think your > nightmare "customers" would have called us or someone else in the > mail order business? I doubt it. Every year we must send out more > catalogs than the number of people that do stained glass, that > qualifies us to answer the question. You can rest assured if they > did not buy from you, they probably did not buy from anyone. > > There are two good questions about this; > 1) Does Warner-Crivellaro as a mail order company get > customers that check out everything and buy nothing? Yes, we > provide as high a level of service and information as possible to > everyone regardless of if they make a purchase. We know that in > the long run the customer will recognize the opportunities we > provide for them. Do we provide more information to the buying > customer? Of course because we utilize the additional time spent > with the customer. > > 2) How to deal with non-purchasing customers? Make your > store as self service as possible. Then it is not as necessary > to hold the customers hand. Among other things we make things > self service by having over 1,500 colors of glass pre-cut and > pre-priced in hobby sheets in the showroom alone. It may not > be possible to be totally self service, we will never be, but > you can significantly cut wasted time in retrieving items for > customers and the customer generally prefers shopping without > a "hovering" presence. > > BTW, everyone has off days but I wouldn't permit anyone to work > for me even packing boxes in the warehouse who has a negative > attitude about customers. This includes non-purchasing customers. > Those of you who came to GlassVisions '97 saw the results of > these positive company wide attitudes. Our warehouse and > production people did a terrific job helping customers and > received as much praise as our regular sales clerks. > > Some customers are a strain to deal with, if you choose to > insult or belittle them the situation will be more unpleasant > with no possibility of making the sale. As long as people are > not abusive or insulting we treat them with the respect all of > us like to receive while shopping. > > Charles Warner > Warner-Crivellaro > http://www.warner-criv.com/ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 11:55:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:55:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: time wasters-Positive Attitudes Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:54:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.95427.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Charles- Nice lecture - I learned my best retail lesson in the Jewish garment industry: The Customer is Always King. Period. Happy Holidays to all and thank you for all you've given me in the past year. I, too, am off to the shadows. We have two major commissions to complete by January 12th. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios 603 W. Colorado Ave. Colorado Springs, CO 80905 http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 12:08:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:08:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:05:29, -0500 Message-ID: <199712202005.PAA08006@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk deb writes; I just asked Hubby about this cause I've seen him use a coat hanger in a pinch when soldering. He said you have to use a LOT of flux, he uses paste, and it does a lot of splattering, so wear goggles, and its one reason he doesn't use them often. Remember too that his soldering is just using the hanger for solder and not soldering the hanger. deb Bob writes, Your husband has a medium sense of humor.8-) I just hope no one wastes their time trying to use a coat hanger for solder. Of course, if it works it is the best idea yet, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (If God needs my advice then He is not what I had in mind.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 12:33:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:33:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: time wasters Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:39:53 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > This kind of behavior on the part of a "customer" is just plain rude. Yes, they could have at least lied and said that they hadn't decided which of the tools and glass to buy yet, but would think about it during their vacation and get back to the owner of the shop. Okay, a lie isn't nice (my mom told me so), but sometimes it's more tactful to tell a white lie than, particularly in a case like this one, come right out and say, "we were just picking your brain and wasting your time because we've already decided to buy elsewhere and won't even give you the chance to meet, match or do better than their prices." Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 13:14:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:12:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Water Cutting Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:02:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.11244.0> References: <<1997Dec20.03458.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Fishbait wrote: > > Got this little goody in my cool fact of the day and wondered if this > might mean there is a cutter to use with water that is on the market for > us stained glass people. > > Bonnie Clark > What common household material can cut steel? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Under the right conditions, water can cut steel! > > Waterjet cutting is an amazing technology that pumps water so quickly > that it can cut through metal. These speeds are achieved by forcing > water through a tiny sapphire hole a tenth of a millimeter across. > The water is squeezed at a pressure of up to 60,000 pounds per square > inch. (By comparison, the pressure of the atmosphere is only 14 pounds > per square inch.) > > This process creates a thin "water laser" that can cut through steel, > plastics, glass, paper, and woven materials without the distortion and > shredding produced by normal cutting methods. > > You can learn more about waterjet cutting at > . > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it can be used for stained glass, and is. however the machine cost over 60 grand, maybe more. and is huge, and loud. basically the cheapest way is to go there and have it done. but this would be for glass that is expensive, many duplicate cuts (or pieces), and hard or impossible cuts. otherwise it does'nt pay. water saws have been cutting out window openings in solid core walls. and a company uses one to cut marine plywood, to make a snap together boat. pretty cool, but i don't have the budget... :) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 13:20:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:18:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: time wasters-Positive Attitudes Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:15:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.111516.0> References: <<1997Dec20.95427.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer wrote: > > Dear Charles- > > Nice lecture - I learned my best retail > lesson in the Jewish garment industry: > > The Customer is Always King. Period. > > Happy Holidays to all and thank you for > all you've given me in the past year. I, too, > am off to the shadows. We have two major > commissions to complete by January 12th. > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > 603 W. Colorado Ave. > Colorado Springs, CO 80905 > > http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass not necesarily. the customer is usually right, because he or she know's what they want. other times they don't, and since you sold it to them, they may blame you for not warning them in advance that it was the wrong thing. i've always believed, that a store owner should be helpful. and they should know what they're talking about. they should'nt have a negative attitude. and should'nt mind bad mouthing one of their own products. i know the place i used to go to, he would tell me it's a waste of my money (of course i got it anyway, and he was right in the first place). i never like having people hover over me, or constantly bother me about help. and sometimes i may go to a store, to check it out. see how friendly the people are, check prices, and stuff. and then may go back next time. so far in the various stores i've been too, all of them were pretty nice, though one of them, the people were looking at me as if i was a shop lifter. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 16:04:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:02:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Hurray Charles Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 19:02:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.14234.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have been in many stained glass stores, in the past five years. I have had experience with good and bad store owners telling me that I couldn't buy this or that. I went to Glassvisions 97, expressly to see the show and Warner/Criv. from Rochester Michigan about 600 miles. There were wonderful salespeople, in a very crazy,chaotic, madhouse. At times, you went from exasperation with the crowds. To awe... with the wonderful information and products (being demonstrated) and of course the beauty of the glass and finished projects available to look at. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 20 19:32:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 19:30:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: televar.com!fishbait From: Fishbait To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: CorelDraw and Stained Glass Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 19:29:05 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec20.11295.0> References: <<1997Dec20.51721.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I would like a copy of the magazine aritcle if you still have any left. Bonnie Clark 2710 Cohoe Road Ellensburg, Wa. 98926 patkelly wrote: > Recently went to a demo of CorelDraw8. Some Corel Magazine people were > there and I discussed the article with them. I asked for permission to > scan the article and send it to the group. The reps couldn't give me an > answer as far as the legalities of it but they said they would get back > with me. I have every confidence in the world they will. In the meantime > I have a few copies of the issue (that they allowed me to abscond with) > and would be more than happy to snail mail. I will send them to the > first members who email or post the snail -mail address, with the > understanding that they in turn pass them on to other members who > requested them. At the moment I'm unsure of how to reach our friends > abroad. > > In the meantime, I'll still work with CorelMag on the posting idea. > Another thought (I'm just full of them today) is to contact CorelMag and > request a back issue. > > Pat > Roses & Rainbows > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 09:18:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 09:15:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hal-pc.org!kkelly From: "Kathryn C. Kelly" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Seashells Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 09:17:22 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec21.31722.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users Precedence: bulk I would appreciate some insights on how to include seashells in window panels and lamps. Do's and don't's. Practical and magical. Kathryn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 09:45:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 09:44:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!clipper1 From: clipper1@erols.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:44:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971221134006.213f8176@pop.erols.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm left-handed too, and I ditto Bob's method. Say, how many lefties are there in bungi? I've noticed a disproportionate number in engineering. Wonder if glass tends to attract people 'in their right mind' too? > >Bob writes, >I too am left handed. I cut up when cutting a pattern and down when >cutting against a straight edge. I do not see where left and right >handed people would do anything but in mirror image when it comes to >cutting. There are no *rules* and so you may cut as you choose. > >Most all my pattern cutting is done on a light table with the glass >laying on the pattern. Cutting up just seems to be the easiest way >for me to see and follow the line. Pulling down against a straight >edge seems to give me better control of the cutter against the >straight edge. > >Left on, Bob > >____ >Bob Duchesneau (God does not need our advice on what is good for us.) >Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, >CA, 92026,USA >Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 10:19:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 10:18:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: time waste...and "cheek" Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:14:46 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec21.181446.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Howard, I had to laugh when you discribed your mail order sale. But you still sound to me like a big loveable teddy bear that doesn't want others to know about. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 10:52:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 10:51:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: time wasters Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:46:21 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec21.184621.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk about time wasters.... a little off glass but in the same thread, I was recently treated as if I were a time waster from a beauty supply wholesaler, which my daughter is licensed to buy from. She had wanted a $250.00 pair of scissors and I thought I would get them for xmas. We were in the store together and I wanted to be sure those were the ones she wanted so I asked the salesgirl to show us those and then a few other pairs. Out of 5 stores in the area like this one this is the only store that won't let me buy there the others all know me and will sell to me because they know my daughter and me. This one doesn't want to know anyone, but I still planned to buy them there, because my daughter was with me and she would have been able to pick them out right then. After we looked at them and one other pair,she discribed a 3rd pair to us and I asked to see them, she abruptly closed the display case and said NO you don't plan on buying them today anyway. Well she got me so mad I wasn't going to argue with her and I knew I could buy them elsewhere and it would be a secret then anyway so I gave up and we left. Daughter will be VERY surprised on xmas morning deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 11:25:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:24:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Seashells Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:23:57 -0800 Message-ID: <199712211924.LAA28355@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have (ugh) over the years done nautilus shells in fan lamps to assuage the tourist trade dependent galleries. I do not believe anything you can do will hurt a shell. If they are going to be lit (in a lamp) use a strong bulb behind the shell to "see" how they show. Trace the outline of the shell on the glass, use lead-in lines if need be, cut glass, foil the shell, fit into glass and solder the thing.....I have never had flux, patina or heat hurt the shell. I may have 15 or so Nautilus (half) shells both polished and natural around that I no longer have any intent of using. I am not against "selling" them, along with the shell bases if any one is interested. NOTE: I have no intention of "giving" them away. I need not to feed or walk them so they can stay in a large box until I become deceased and no longer care (assumedly). Note order of deceased and care may be interchangeable. Never an easy answer from me! enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 11:54:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:54:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: iamerica.net!flowers From: Mike Barr To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Seashells Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:44:51 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec21.74451.0> References: <<1997Dec21.31722.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Flowers Etc Precedence: bulk Katherine wrote I would appreciate some insights on how to include seashells I used to use seashells frequently and never had any problems with them. The only things I found to watch out for are; Make sure you don't fit them to tightly against the glass and take some extra time to make sure the foil is pressed down properly. It's easy to leave gaps on the rough surface. There are probably some other problems & I just lucked out and didn't meet them Mike Barr ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 13:08:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:07:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: abelink.com!rbaker From: Di Baker To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:07:27 -0500 Message-ID: References: <<1.5.4.16.19971221134006.213f8176@pop.erols.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All of you wonderful Glass Artists! I am a lefty also -- I cut curvy lines away from my body & straight cuts with a ruler towards me. Works for me! I love working with stained glass because it is one of the few crafts that I have worked in that didn't matter if you were left handed (((: I would like to know how many of us lefties are on Macs? Albert are you left handed? I had a book at one time that gave the stats for how many lefties worked on the original Macintosh -- it was really high. Happy Holidays! Di ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* _ |\_ \` ..\ Di Baker __,.-" =__Y= Kitties--Bogie Blue, Chanel Blue, Sarah, jgs ." ) Tornado, Cagney _ / , \/\_ Wanna see how cute we are? Visit us at: ((____| )_-\ \_-` http://www.islandnet.com/~jbrooks/di1.htm `-----'`-----` `--` ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~*~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ~* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 13:21:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:21:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!lydia From: "Lydia" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:20:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec21.112055.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hiya, Well I'm left handed (along with being new to Stained Glass) and love it. I cut away from my body all the time. One more left handed and left eyed person on bungi, Lydia -----Original Message----- From: clipper1@erols.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) >I'm left-handed too, and I ditto Bob's method. > >Say, how many lefties are there in bungi? I've noticed a disproportionate >number in engineering. Wonder if glass tends to attract people 'in their >right mind' too? > > >> >>Bob writes, >>I too am left handed. I cut up when cutting a pattern and down when >>cutting against a straight edge. I do not see where left and right >>handed people would do anything but in mirror image when it comes to >>cutting. There are no *rules* and so you may cut as you choose. >> >>Most all my pattern cutting is done on a light table with the glass >>laying on the pattern. Cutting up just seems to be the easiest way >>for me to see and follow the line. Pulling down against a straight >>edge seems to give me better control of the cutter against the >>straight edge. >> >>Left on, Bob >> >>____ >>Bob Duchesneau (God does not need our advice on what is good for us.) >>Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, >>CA, 92026,USA >>Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 13:30:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:30:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Lefties Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:29:29 -0800 Message-ID: <199712212130.NAA24523@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This may skew the statistics, but I have tried both ways, since some of my student (a few) over the years have been lefties. I am right-handed. I used to shoot (target, no fuzzy mammals) left handed....lots of years as type-setter and could control my left hand to do most right handed functions. Hand of choice is right, and my glass work is done right-handed. Enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 14:36:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 14:35:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:31:58, -0500 Message-ID: <199712212231.RAA07976@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote; Hi Bob- I tried your eye trick and my thumb doesn't stay on target = with either eye. Does that mean I'm blind? Also, when I line up my thumb with the target, I see two thumbs. Of course, that could be because it's midnight and we're still at the shop. Michael's finishing up a job that has to be installed tomorrow A.M. I'll try again tomorrow because this has me somewhat intrigued. Best regards, Dani Greer Bob writes, No, I do not think you are blind. Perhaps if you try not to stare hard the thumb trick will work. I tried Linda Campbell's way of making a diamond with the thumbs and forefingers. Seems to be a superior method of determining eye dominance. The dominant eye looks straight at the target and the other eye looks at an angle. This gives us depth perception. I assume that people with wide spaced eyes have better depth perception. As in shooting, you should get better results if you use your dominant eye to determine where the cutter is in reference to the pattern. It is not surprising that SG attracts a high percentage of left handers. They seem to be creative above the average. A web search will reveal a surprising list of left handers. There must be something to the left/right brain thing. To confuse the issue more I will let out the fact that President Clinton is left handed but I don't think he does SG. Still left on, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (If God needs my advice then He is not what I had in mind.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 15:42:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:42:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mfi.net!jcampbell From: "jcampbell" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 97 19:29:20 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec22.32920.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971221134006.213f8176@pop.erols.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I too am a lefty. Seems like we are always learning how to do something = for right handeders and then reversing. Afer years you get used to it. ---------- > > I'm left-handed too, and I ditto Bob's method. > > Say, how many lefties are there in bungi? I've noticed a disproportiona= te > number in engineering. Wonder if glass tends to attract people 'in thei= r > right mind' too? > > > > > >Bob writes, > >I too am left handed. I cut up when cutting a pattern and down when = > >cutting against a straight edge. I do not see where left and right > >handed people would do anything but in mirror image when it comes to = > >cutting. There are no *rules* and so you may cut as you choose. > > > >Most all my pattern cutting is done on a light table with the glass = > >laying on the pattern. Cutting up just seems to be the easiest way > >for me to see and follow the line. Pulling down against a straight > >edge seems to give me better control of the cutter against the > >straight edge. > > > >Left on, Bob > > > >____ > >Bob Duchesneau (God does not need our advice on what is good for us.) = > >Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, = > >CA, 92026,USA > >Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 19:32:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:31:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: plant buddies Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:31:41 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec22.33141.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I too would love to have some of those plant buddie patterns. Sounds simply great to make and be able to sell at craft shows reasonably priced. Thank you in advance. Bubstah@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 21 22:03:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:02:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!GlassWizrd From: GlassWizrd To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 01:00:13 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec22.6013.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-19 23:21:31 EST, you write: << Tell me I didn't read this right.F You are telling me that your husband uses a hanger for solder...as in place of oh say...50/50 or 60/40 solder. And if this is true.....what is he melting that steel with???? my best, pj >> Debs hubby is having her on! I'm fairly new to stained glass buit I have been a welder for over 30& years Melting point is approx 2100degreesF for mild steel. This technique cannot be done with a soldering iron. It can only be melted with a oxygen| acetylene torch . It was the original way Pipes and steel were fused together before the advent of welding machines. WE know what would happen to glass at 2100F. PS I just attended a wedding at Myr Kor Shalome Syn. and your S.G. windows are simply breath-taking and would hope to aspire to such a standard of excellence someday ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 01:50:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 01:49:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: CorelDraw and Stained Glass Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:48:55 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.94855.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 13:17 20/12/97 -0800, Pat wrote: >In the meantime, I'll still work with CorelMag on the posting idea. >Another thought (I'm just full of them today) is to contact CorelMag and >request a back issue. > Pat, do you have an address for CorelMag so we can try & get hold of the back issue - also what issue should we ask for? Thank you Elizabeth & Sam Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 08:03:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:02:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tznet.com!diacca From: Pat Diacca Topp To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: CorelDraw and Stained Glass Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:00:49 -0600 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971222100049.007abbc0@mail.tznet.com> References: <<1997Dec20.51721.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Yes, but what issue? At 01:17 PM 12/20/97 -0800, you wrote: >In the meantime, I'll still work with CorelMag on the posting idea. >Another thought (I'm just full of them today) is to contact CorelMag and >request a back issue. > >Pat >Roses & Rainbows > > Did I miss this on the list? Don't remember, but thanks, Pat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 08:12:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:12:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: CorelDraw Magazine Article Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 10:19:31 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec22.181931.0> References: <<1997Dec20.23356.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Steve, I'm sorry that I have to reply to the entire group, but I don't have your= e-mail address. Pat is going to mail me the article on Corel Draw, but if you want to sca= n both articles and send them to me I'll test out how it comes through. = That might help help Pat out since she only has so many copies to mail = out. My e-mail address is: dawnm@fidnet.com Thanks! Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 08:31:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:30:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail1.ciwemb.edu!jewell From: "Connie Jewell" To: "Bungi" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: 22 Dec 1997 11:25:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.62554.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Count me in as Mac & Leftie. Jewell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 08:36:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:35:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail1.ciwemb.edu!jewell From: "Connie Jewell" To: "bungi" Subject: left vs. right Date: 22 Dec 1997 11:30:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.63047.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Are than any other lefties on the list who were tortured as a child by having people try & make you right handed (supposedly for your own good). I still remember when I was very little picking up a fork or crayon and having an adult take it from my left hand and put it into my right hand. As a result I now write right handed but do everything else left handed. Jewell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 08:38:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:38:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Intro Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:38:15 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk >My name is Dan. I don't want to bore anyone >with newbie questions, so is there a place with FAQ, or anyone can >recomend a good beginer book? Dan-- If you haven't done so, I'd recommend taking a look at Mike Savad's site. He has lots of great tips and links. Kaye Kaye -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 09:11:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:10:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: craftnetwork.com!petem From: "Pete Mitchell" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: CorelDraw and Stained Glass Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:10:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.7103.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I've used Corel extensively for several years and have duplicated the procedure mentioned in the October issue of Corel Magazine countless times. It's a surprisingly simple process. I thought that it may help out if I threw together the information so everyone here could read it, so I did. You can read it at http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/article3.html The article includes some of the methods used in the Corel article, and some of the things I've discovered in my experience. Let me know what you think, Pete ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 09:21:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:20:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz From: "len alcamo" To: Subject: Re: left vs. right Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:31:26 -0600 Message-ID: <199712221718.LAA11873@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Are than any other lefties on the list who were tortured as a child by >having people try & make you right handed (supposedly for your own good). I >still remember when I was very little picking up a fork or crayon and having >an adult take it from my left hand and put it into my right hand. As a result >I now write right handed but do everything else left handed. >Jewell Yep My folks believed that I would be hindered in life as a lefty so they changed me over. In the long run I guess it worked out since I am more or less ambidextrous .>sp?< Very handy when using tools. Cept its hard to find those left handed screwdrivers :-) Have a great holiday See ya next year Peace Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 09:23:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:23:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: CorelDraw and Stained Glass Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:19:18 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.31918.0> References: <<3.0.5.32.19971222100049.007abbc0@mail.tznet.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Pat D, The isssue of Corel Magazine is Oct 1997. Do you want a Xerox copy also? Pat K Pat Diacca Topp wrote: > Yes, but what issue? > > At 01:17 PM 12/20/97 -0800, you wrote: > >In the meantime, I'll still work with CorelMag on the posting idea. > >Another thought (I'm just full of them today) is to contact CorelMag and > >request a back issue. > > > >Pat > >Roses & Rainbows > > > > > Did I miss this on the list? Don't remember, but thanks, Pat > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 11:03:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:02:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: epix.net!age49 From: age49@epix.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Intro Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:01:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.9149.0> References: <<1997Dec20.44948.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks to all of you for the warm welcome! I was lucky enough to find other familiar names from other lists. After the holidays I am planning a short trip to Warner-Crivellaro in Allentown. I have enjoyed very much visiting some of your sites. Gee! I hope to be just as good as some of you...in about 10 years maybe? Feliz Navidad! Dan Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > > Message text written by Dan: > >I am planning to take some classes after the holidays. I live in NE PA > near the Scranton-Wilkes Barre area. any crafter/s in that area?< > > Well, you are close enough to go check out Warner-Crivellaro over > in Allentown. Besides having on of the largest, nicest, and best > stocked retail stores in the east coast, I do believe they teach > classes. Give 'em a call at 1-800-523-4242 or 610-264-1100. > > Christie A. Wood (who does not own stock in W-C but would like to) > Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 11:10:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:09:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: epix.net!age49 From: age49@epix.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Intro Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:08:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.982.0> References: <<199712201523.KAA00917@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk suzanne albright wrote: > > Hi Dan, welcome to the group. You will learn lots here! > > > Good luck, enjoy it. Warning: It's addictive! Yikes! no another addiction, DW will evict me! Oh well, it could be chocolate! Dan > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 11:39:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:38:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Carl Childers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:28:52 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.62852.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971221134006.213f8176@pop.erols.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk I'm lefty, and it depends on the position of the glass vs. my body. i.e. straight away, across, side to side etc .Basically, it's what feels comfortable at the time, and what I can see. clipper1@erols.com wrote: > Say, how many lefties are there in bungi? I've noticed a > disproportionate > number in engineering. Wonder if glass tends to attract people 'in > their > right mind' too? 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?'"Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 12:57:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:56:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!Tperri From: Tperri@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Flash glass Date: 22 Dec 1997 16:01:38 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All: Here's a newbie question for you. In the recent past, one talked about flashed glass. What is that? Happy Holidays to all!! Teri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 13:37:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:36:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ictc.com!bankers From: "The Banker's House" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Flash glass Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:37:47 -0600 Message-ID: <199712222141.PAA14842@ns.ictc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Teri, Flashed glass is a sheet of clear glass with a film of color "flashed" to the top. It is sometimes used in etching... so the etched letters appear clear, while the rest of the glass is colored. I am sure there are other uses as well..... maybe we'll hear more? ---------- > From: Tperri@mssb.net > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Flash glass > Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 2:01 PM > > Hi All: > > Here's a newbie question for you. In the recent past, one talked about > flashed glass. What is that? > > Happy Holidays to all!! > > Teri > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 13:45:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:45:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: feline pattern Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:41:18 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.74118.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LuAnn, Were you ever able to download the graphic. If not email me at " pkelly@sagelink.net " or send me you snail mail address. Pat Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 13:56:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:56:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm From: Dawn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: Flash glass Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 16:04:48 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec23.0448.0> References: <<199712222141.PAA14842@ns.ictc.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Teri, It also can be one color on top of another color. One of the colors will= make up the majority of the width of the glass. You should cut on the = side with the "thickest" color. Dawn > Teri, > Flashed glass is a sheet of clear glass with a film of color > "flashed" to > the top. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 14:01:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:00:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: First of all apologies,then my 2 cents, and then a question about solder iron tips (ends). Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:59:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.55929.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I am still not computer friendly and have been spending the last 3 days trying to catch up on email and getting used to netscape. My only excuss for posting a private email to my son over the list. Sorry. But I so enjoyed the blue mountain site, that now have been able to send Christmas Cards, a process I had given up on this year. Thank you so much for the site. And the holiday greeting. Now my two cents worth. Plant buddies (I also like that name): I read somewhere, I think family circle, that only brass and wood should be used cause other metals can harm the plants. I use brass rods. They sell by the 3 ft. piece or the pound whichever is cheaper. I used 18 inches and they cost me between 11 and 33 cents depending on the diameter of the rod (Don't ask I have no idea what the sizes are, I just buy to support whatever I am making at the time). I have used wood and it rotted out in less than 2 years. I use brass exclusively now and it is still going strong after 2 years smack dab on the Oregon Coast. (And so is the 50/50 solder I use). I fear coat hanger would only be good for places like Arizonia. As for the things selling. I have very little luck. I make elegant butterflys and put a $15 price tag on them. Way to much. People seem to want to pay under $5 for them and seem to like the cutsy cartoony type the best. And things that are naturally outside ei, butterflys, dragonflys, frogs, bumble bees, etc. Garden items are still selling well at the craft shows and boutiques, so if you are so inclined good luck and I hope you make lots of money with these little guys. Oh and when you sell them, display them in a real bush, something with only beautiful green foilage. The few I have sold this year were thanks to the setting I had them in. Now for my question: I have a soldering iron that the tip regulates the heat. I am in the process of losing my second tip to some sort of creeping crude. It starts at the ring that holds the tip in place to the soldering iron. It looks like a fungus growing on the thing and it eats down into the core of the tip and eventually it (the outside layer) starts to peel away. Is this the normal demise of an overused (maybe abused) tip or am I doing something wrong? Sorry about the fungus stuff, but once a nurse always a nurse. Like I said I just spent 3 days going over bungi communicae since Dec. 2nd. I have throughly enjoyed all the advice and have visited all the new websites and copied and filed away the advice I know I will use for a later day (project). Thankyou all for your caring and sharing. Remember an Angel is someone who gave you a special moment. There are a lot of Angels out there in Bungi land. Merry Christmas and Have a Happy Healthy Properous New Year. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 14:23:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:22:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!diamonds From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sight Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:23:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.122359.0> References: <<19971219010506.02cb5210.in@seaside.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len I recieved the diddie today in the mail, Thank You !!!!!!!! I appreicate it. No, I only recently have started into the textured soldering. I hope to become more into the textured aspect of stained glass as time allows. I'm lucky in that the company that my husband works for gave me a large magnifly glass in which I use in my work. I hope to find more time to use these after the first of the year. I've been hospitalized 3 times this year and haven't had the time to get into my stained glass as much as I'd like. My husband is wanting me to use my artistict talents in sculpting and painting too. I majored in art although I never feel as if I'm quite as good as I should be. I hope to improve that after the first though. Thank you again and I wish you a Merry Christmas and a fun filled New Year. Thanks, Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 14:34:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:33:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Flash glass Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:29:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.122946.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tperri@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi All: > > Here's a newbie question for you. In the recent past, one talked about > flashed glass. What is that? > > Happy Holidays to all!! > > Teri > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass flash glass, is mainly a base color like clear and a thin (usaully antique) layer on top. if you've ever seen a sanblasted sign with a colored background, and whiteish letters, that's the glass used. flash, also has a more intense color. but it's fairly expensive... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 14:36:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:36:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: First of all apologies,then my 2 cents, and then a question about solder iron tips (ends). Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:32:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.123224.0> References: <<1997Dec22.55929.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > I am still not computer friendly and have been spending the last 3 days > trying to catch up on email and getting used to netscape. My only > excuss for posting a private email to my son over the list. Sorry. > But I so enjoyed the blue mountain site, that now have been able to send > Christmas Cards, a process I had given up on this year. Thank you so > much for the site. And the holiday greeting. > > Now my two cents worth. > Plant buddies (I also like that name): I read somewhere, I think family > circle, that only brass and wood should be used cause other metals can > harm the plants. I use brass rods. They sell by the 3 ft. piece or the > pound whichever is cheaper. I used 18 inches and they cost me between > 11 and 33 cents depending on the diameter of the rod (Don't ask I have > no idea what the sizes are, I just buy to support whatever I am making > at the time). I have used wood and it rotted out in less than 2 years. > I use brass exclusively now and it is still going strong after 2 years > smack dab on the Oregon Coast. (And so is the 50/50 solder I use). > I fear coat hanger would only be good for places like Arizonia. > As for the things selling. I have very little luck. I make elegant > butterflys and put a $15 price tag on them. Way to much. People seem > to want to pay under $5 for them and seem to like the cutsy cartoony > type the best. And things that are naturally outside ei, butterflys, > dragonflys, frogs, bumble bees, etc. Garden items are still selling > well at the craft shows and boutiques, so if you are so inclined good > luck and I hope you make lots of money with these little guys. Oh and > when you sell them, display them in a real bush, something with only > beautiful green foilage. The few I have sold this year were thanks to > the setting I had them in. > > Now for my question: > I have a soldering iron that the tip regulates the heat. I am in the > process of losing my second tip to some sort of creeping crude. It > starts at the ring that holds the tip in place to the soldering iron. It > looks like a fungus growing on the thing and it eats down into the core > of the tip and eventually it (the outside layer) starts to peel away. > Is this the normal demise of an overused (maybe abused) tip or am I > doing something wrong? Sorry about the fungus stuff, but once a nurse > always a nurse. > > Like I said I just spent 3 days going over bungi communicae since Dec. > 2nd. I have throughly enjoyed all the advice and have visited all the > new websites and copied and filed away the advice I know I will use for > a later day (project). > Thankyou all for your caring and sharing. > Remember an Angel is someone who gave you a special moment. There are a > lot of Angels out there in Bungi land. > Merry Christmas and Have a Happy Healthy Properous New Year. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the tip is dying. soon the whole tip will be covered, and will get smaller and smaller. holes may form. you can try using a tinning block, if it does'nt clear it up, then get a new tip. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 16:28:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:27:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: left vs. right Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 19:29:04 -0500 Message-ID: <199712230027.TAA21851@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jewell writes: > Are than any other lefties on the list who were tortured as a child by >having people try & make you right handed (supposedly for your own good). I >still remember when I was very little picking up a fork or crayon and having >an adult take it from my left hand and put it into my right hand. As a result >I now write right handed but do everything else left handed. Suzanne responds: I don't remember being tortured as a child but I'm basically right-handed, except I throw a ball left-handed. Any others? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 17:01:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:00:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:00:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712230100.UAA18189@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Debs hubby is having her on! I'm fairly new to stained glass buit I have been >a welder for over 30& years Melting point is approx 2100degreesF for mild >steel. This technique cannot be done with a soldering iron. It can only be >melted with a oxygen| acetylene torch . It was the original way Pipes and >steel were fused together before the advent of welding machines. WE know what >would happen to glass at 2100F. PS I just attended a wedding >at Myr Kor Shalome Syn. and your S.G. windows are simply breath-taking >and would hope to aspire to such a standard of excellence someday Well I hope deb's hubby is just joshing with her. Although she hasn't said otherwise. Thank you for the compliment. Mkor was a wonderful commission that is not entirely completed. We still have a few windows on the sides to complete. And the lower windows in the santuary. "The Source" happens to be one of my favorites. And because it is nearby I even get to see it every once in awhile. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 17:12:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:12:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Is it just me? Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:09:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.15950.0> References: <<199712181614.IAA14572@norm.island.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi All, Happy Holidays to everyone out here in cyberspace, whatever brand or kind of holiday you celebrate. I tend to stay with the Winter Solstice, generic as it is. Still have 2 more orders to finish before Christmas, luckily small ones. Got the last of the big ones shipped today. Now I get to do my Holiday Cards , as my leg and foot won't let me stand to do glass tonight. An old injury, didn't trip over anything this time. A special Thank You to everyone who responded to my "Help with Credit Card Merchant Services" request, I have a bunch of info coming from several recommend companies, as well as my own bank. And, I owe several people personal e-mail from the list, that I haven't had time to answer. I will, I will, I promise, but the last two or three weeks, my mail (Netscape) got a glitch, (or was it me) and dropped a couple of personal e-mail messages. Not quite sure who they came from, Elisabeth?? maybe, Carol, or Susanne maybe. It was just after I posted some pictures (privately, to several on the list) Please send again if I did not reply, as they are in cyber heaven now. Mike, a special thank you on your 'Tips' page on your web site, it pulled me out of a couple of {'stuck' how do I do it}, dilemmas in getting these orders out. So, I am sitting back and taking time with my leg propped up, doing cards in the computer, and starting to savor the feeling of the season. If anyone has been 'short or snappish', I'm sure it is the pressure of trying to 'do it all', which can't be done. Howard, Glad you are back, hope everyone else enjoys your posts as much as I do, even the occasional 'rant'. The interaction in cyberspace of the various personalities on the 3 lists I follow, never ceases to provide stimulating thinking, often amusement, and knowledge and enjoyment. Happy Holidays to All, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Carol Swann wrote: > > > >If there are to be no human interchanges along with the exchange of > >information, I'll have no interest in the exchange at all. On the > >other hand, my days are very long and it's late, so perhaps it's just > >me. > > > > Hey Albert, > > I think it's not just you...it's the season. I've watched everyone around > me get more and more uptight with everything they "just have to do" to get > ready for Christmas...Until yesterday I was able to resist this...until I > counted the days left til Christmas, and matched them up to the orders I had > left..two panels...a heron, a fish; a special order of small things for > someone, and a repair on someone's Christmas angel. The last two I took > against my better judgement...Add that to having a personal Christmas, and I > find my fuse just a little shorter than it should be. > > Relax and hang it, this too will pass. Besides I rather enjoy the > philosophical comments on the web...keeps me thinking!!! > > Cheers > Carol Swann > Synergy Glass & Creative > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 18:57:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:56:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Is it just me? Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:52:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec22.165238.0> References: <<1997Dec22.15950.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk leestat7 wrote: > > Hi All, > > Happy Holidays to everyone out here in cyberspace, whatever brand or > kind of holiday you celebrate. I tend to stay with the Winter Solstice, > generic as it is. Still have 2 more orders to finish before Christmas, > luckily small ones. Got the last of the big ones shipped today. Now I > get to do my Holiday Cards , as my leg and foot won't let me stand to do > glass tonight. An old injury, didn't trip over anything this time. > > A special Thank You to everyone who responded to my "Help with Credit > Card Merchant Services" request, I have a bunch of info coming from > several recommend companies, as well as my own bank. > > And, I owe several people personal e-mail from the list, that I haven't > had time to answer. I will, I will, I promise, but the last two or > three weeks, my mail (Netscape) got a glitch, (or was it me) and dropped > a couple of personal e-mail messages. Not quite sure who they came > from, Elisabeth?? maybe, Carol, or Susanne maybe. It was just after I > posted some pictures (privately, to several on the list) Please send > again if I did not reply, as they are in cyber heaven now. > > Mike, a special thank you on your 'Tips' page on your web site, it > pulled me out of a couple of {'stuck' how do I do it}, dilemmas in > getting these orders out. out of curiosity, which tips helped out? if you remember... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 20:44:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:43:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!ANLGlass From: ANL Glass To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: left vs. right Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:41:55 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec23.44155.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-22 11:57:56 EST, you write: << Are than any other lefties on the list who were tortured as a child by having people try & make you right handed (supposedly for your own good). I still remember when I was very little picking up a fork or crayon and having an adult take it from my left hand and put it into my right hand. As a result I now write right handed but do everything else left handed. >> Count one for a left-handed, Mac-preferring (although now using a PC due to a right-handed spouse who insisted), cuts-towards-me-except-with-a- straight- edge, mother-made-me-learn-to-eat-right-handed former-engineer-now-full- time-glass-artisan. (I wonder if the census has the appropriate box for us to check?) Happy Holidays to all ... and thanks for all the knowledge I've been honored to receive over the past year! - Marilyn Kaminski ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 22 22:56:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:56:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: awinc.com!fusion From: "Ken Ransom" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: subscribe Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:49:17 -0800 Message-ID: <199712230655.WAA00216@freya.van.hookup.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk please add thanks ken ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 05:28:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 05:27:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Seashells Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:26:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec23.32651.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I use seashells in nightlights. Lay the seashell down on top of the pattern and trace around the shell. Then foil the shell and solder it to the glass pieces. The light shines through the seashell beautifully. I've also incorporated seashells into stained glass mosaic garden pots. Just glue them onto the terra cotta pot along with the stained glass scraps, and form a nice underwater scene. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 08:17:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:17:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!ItsAlison From: ItsAlison To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: and then a question about solder... Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 11:11:38 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec23.161138.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk <> Hello Shirley, I have an insta-heat iron that I use with a rheostat to regulate the temperature. And I have had the problem you described with the corrosion and the eating away of the iron's tip...it starts at the base and eats through to the core, forming a notch in the iron. No one I have shown the iron to has any idea what causes this strange occurance....maybe someone on this list can enlighten us both. My local retailer says it may just be the way an iron gets old and burns out, yet he has never seen anything like it either. It's a mystery to me, but yes I do know what you are talking about ! ~Alison~ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 08:59:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:58:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Soldering Tip Corrosion Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:56:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1997Dec23.05642.0> References: <<1997Dec23.161138.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk It has been suggested that when the soldering tip begins to form the "crude" and holes in the tip this may be due to overuse of flux. I can accept this but I also tend to use a steel brush to get rid of the crude and I may be damaging the tip even further. The only solution I know is to replace the tip when this occurs. PJ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 09:51:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:48:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wepop.mediaone.net!slally From: Sean Lally To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: and then a question about solder... Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 09:48:37 -0800 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Could it be flux eating away at it? ><I have a soldering iron that the tip regulates the heat. I am in the >process of losing my second tip to some sort of creeping crude. It >starts at the ring that holds the tip in place to the soldering iron. It >looks like a fungus growing on the thing and it eats down into the core >of the tip and eventually it (the outside layer) starts to peel away. >Is this the normal demise of an overused (maybe abused) tip or am I >doing something wrong? Sorry about the fungus stuff, but once a nurse >always a nurse.>> > >Hello Shirley, > I have an insta-heat iron that I use with a rheostat to regulate the >temperature. And I have had the problem you described with the corrosion and >the eating away of the iron's tip...it starts at the base and eats through to >the core, forming a notch in the iron. No one I have shown the iron to has >any idea what causes this strange occurance....maybe someone on this list can >enlighten us both. My local retailer says it may just be the way an iron >gets >old and burns out, yet he has never seen anything like it either. It's a >mystery to me, but yes I do know what you are talking about ! ~Alison~ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 10:31:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 10:30:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: seashells Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 10:29:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec23.22929.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I made a couple of abstract seashell glass suncatchers. I used to much copper patina and it stained the soft shelled ones with a beautiful blue ring at the inside depth that it soaked into. But between the blue ring and outside edge of the shell it turned ugly brown. I ended up having to paint the shells with acrylic paint and that made the whole thing look like a grade school kid made it. The shells I had the most trouble with were sand dollars and starfish. The real hard shelled ones like alabaster weren't effected at all. You have to be equally careful with the flux. I think the flux was what caused the ugly brown. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 10:38:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 10:37:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: soldering tip Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 10:36:40 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec23.23640.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I do have some bad habits when it comes to the gun. I have been known to tip it in the flux by accident and have forgot to unplug it for a day at a time. I use 50/50 solder which seems to be dirtier than 60/40. And when I relead the tip, that is the only part I relead. I suppose that doesn't contribute to the its' longevity? Which brings another question. How many hours of use should you get? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 14:34:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:33:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: and then a question about solder... Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:30:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec23.123012.0> References: <<1997Dec23.161138.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ItsAlison wrote: > > < I have a soldering iron that the tip regulates the heat. I am in the > process of losing my second tip to some sort of creeping crude. It > starts at the ring that holds the tip in place to the soldering iron. It > looks like a fungus growing on the thing and it eats down into the core > of the tip and eventually it (the outside layer) starts to peel away. > Is this the normal demise of an overused (maybe abused) tip or am I > doing something wrong? Sorry about the fungus stuff, but once a nurse > always a nurse.>> > > Hello Shirley, > I have an insta-heat iron that I use with a rheostat to regulate the > temperature. And I have had the problem you described with the corrosion and > the eating away of the iron's tip...it starts at the base and eats through to > the core, forming a notch in the iron. No one I have shown the iron to has > any idea what causes this strange occurance....maybe someone on this list can > enlighten us both. My local retailer says it may just be the way an iron gets > old and burns out, yet he has never seen anything like it either. It's a > mystery to me, but yes I do know what you are talking about ! ~Alison~ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass this might be an idea: the iron get's hot, and is always is around corrosive flux. maybe in the long run, that's what finally does it in. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 15:04:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:03:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: seashells Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:54:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec23.125425.0> References: <<1997Dec23.22929.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > I made a couple of abstract seashell glass suncatchers. > I used to much copper patina and it stained the soft shelled ones with a > beautiful blue ring at the inside depth that it soaked into. But > between the blue ring and outside edge of the shell it turned ugly > brown. I ended up having to paint the shells with acrylic paint and that > made the whole thing look like a grade school kid made it. > The shells I had the most trouble with were sand dollars and starfish. > The real hard shelled ones like alabaster weren't effected at all. > You have to be equally careful with the flux. I think the flux was what > caused the ugly brown. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass that's why you need a clear coat on them. like nail polish or spray. though it tends to melt a little if it get's too hot. but it does bring out the color of the shell. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 15:12:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:11:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: soldering tip Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:57:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec23.12573.0> References: <<1997Dec23.23640.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > I do have some bad habits when it comes to the gun. > I have been known to tip it in the flux by accident and have forgot to > unplug it for a day at a time. > I use 50/50 solder which seems to be dirtier than 60/40. > And when I relead the tip, that is the only part I relead. > I suppose that doesn't contribute to the its' longevity? > Which brings another question. How many hours of use should you get? > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's hard to say how many. it's how you use it. as you mentioned, leaving it on for a day, is bad for an iron. plugging it in, and unplugging it is also bad, (heat up, cool down). for average use, say, between 3-5 hours per session, and not abusing it, it should last for about 1-2 years. i could'nt say for sure how many hours though. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 16:42:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:42:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: LATE Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:39:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199712240042.AAA15390@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Bunginians, Swedish Christmas starts at crack of dawn on 24th; I am days and days behind.... no way can I catch up..... In actuality, Swedish Christmas starts at the First Sunday of Advent... When was that...??!"!!! This year seems to have played a nasty trick on me.... I am WEEKS behind!!!! My Swedish Christmas traditions dictates to me that I should cater for an extra plate at the dinner table. The plate is there.... I just hope that whosoever turns up, is able to take onboard that Father Christmas got stuck in a traffic jam this year...... My candles are in place showing where my door is... Whosoever turns up, stranger or not, is an honoured , valued, sacred guest...... Wherever you are, whoever you are..... whatever turmoil you are in; please remember to be gracious. Family celebration is a wonderful thing, it will be even MORE wonderful if you have it within you to open your heart, home and dinner-table to someone who might otherwise not experience Christmas. No big deal, just cook for one more mouth and lay that extra plate for dinner.... I ... and the inimitable Toby .... wish you a very Happy Christmas... and a compassionate, warm, Viking and giving one. In total chaos!!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ( forever a ''slave'' to stained glass) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 16:43:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:42:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Soldering Tip Corrosion Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 01:39:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199712240042.AAA15396@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk My Dear Peggy, ....owing you a bit and a half..... it's coming... No, but you DO need to clean your tip virtualluy every 15 minutes or so.. It gets "sooted" up" quickly, from how you descrivbe it. There is an easy and quick cure for that and one that won't cost mega-bucks. Using flux DOES speed up the "sooting process". In+ UK we have a "tip-cleaning bath" (stinks to high heaven!!) manufactured by a company called "Multi-Core" Regardless of what flux you use, it cleans up the tip nice, bright and shiny ALL the time, provided you use it often enough. They sell in ittsy-bitsy miniscule shape, round little box, less than 1/2 inch across. I buy 15-20 of them - all in one go; tip them all into one metal container and then send my soldering iron bits for a real bath, back-scrub and total immersion. I will send you some -, after New Year - total massage, rejuvenation and spruce-up for old soldering bits....... Youy can FEEL the old back-scratch therapy of your soldering bits going Aaaahhhhh!! I am NOW (and you will shortly!!) gorgeing myself in wonderful photographs of YOU in UK, Chartres and Toby. Pure Delight!! Cost me about USD.200 for the whole film to be put on CD. Worth every Cent!! Kathe too!!! Will all arrive per snailmail shortly. Miss you. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK /From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Soldering Tip Corrosion Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:56:42 -0800 (PST) Reply-to: glass@bungi.com It has been suggested that when the soldering tip begins to form the "crude" and holes in the tip this may be due to overuse of flux. I can accept this but I also tend to use a steel brush to get rid of the crude and I may be damaging the tip even further. The only solution I know is to replace the tip when this occurs. PJ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 16:56:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:55:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: AOL.COM!Glasangels From: Glasangels To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Holiday Wishes Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 19:53:51 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec24.05351.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk . ]-[ÄþþÝ ]-[ÔLÎÐÄݧ . ƒröm Óür ]-[õú§ë †ô Ýóúr§ . ,, " ' " ,, . ,, " ` /\ ´ " ,, . ,," - < > - " ,, . ,," \ / ",, . ," ´ \/ ` ;; . ;; ' ;; . ;; , , ;; . ;; , ' ( ' , ;; . ;; : )\ : ;; . ;; ' , ( n ), ' ;; . ;; (;;;···|,,,¸¸¸ ;; . ;; )/| (;;) ;; . ;; | \( ;; . ;; | | ;; . ;; | | ;; . ;; (V)àý †}-{ê §†är oƒ ]-[óþë ;; . ;; áñÐ †]-[ë £ïgh† óƒ þéáçê ;; . ;; §†àý Wφh Ýöû âLL Ýêàr ;; . ;; «w®£n» ';; . ~°~ ~°~ ~°~ ~°~ ~°~ ~°~ ~°~ Marilyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 17:46:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:45:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!MsChatee From: MsChatee To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: and then a question about solder... Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:45:27 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec24.14527.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I have one of those irons too! SO other then buying new what do we do? Sometimes little pieces of the crude fall off into the hot solder and I can't prevent it. I try to knock it off ahead of time but it doesn't always matter. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 18:56:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 18:55:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: CorelDraw and Stained Glass Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:51:05 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec23.12515.0> References: <<1997Dec20.11295.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mailed the article to you this AM. Its an xerox copy, however I hope post the color parts to the group. Happy Holidays Pat Fishbait wrote: > I would like a copy of the magazine aritcle if you still have any left. > Bonnie Clark > 2710 Cohoe Road > Ellensburg, Wa. 98926 > > patkelly wrote: > > > Recently went to a demo of CorelDraw8. Some Corel Magazine people were > > there and I discussed the article with them. I asked for permission to > > scan the article and send it to the group. The reps couldn't give me an > > answer as far as the legalities of it but they said they would get back > > with me. I have every confidence in the world they will. In the meantime > > I have a few copies of the issue (that they allowed me to abscond with) > > and would be more than happy to snail mail. I will send them to the > > first members who email or post the snail -mail address, with the > > understanding that they in turn pass them on to other members who > > requested them. At the moment I'm unsure of how to reach our friends > > abroad. > > > > In the meantime, I'll still work with CorelMag on the posting idea. > > Another thought (I'm just full of them today) is to contact CorelMag and > > request a back issue. > > > > Pat > > Roses & Rainbows > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 20:20:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:20:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Soldering Tip Corrosion Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 23:21:05 -0500 Message-ID: <199712240419.XAA09103@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >My Dear Peggy, > >....owing you a bit and a half..... it's coming... >No, but you DO need to clean your tip virtualluy every 15 >minutes or so.. It gets "sooted" up" quickly, from how you >descrivbe it. There is an easy and quick cure for that and one >that won't cost mega-bucks. Using flux DOES speed up the "sooting >process". In+ UK we have a "tip-cleaning bath" (stinks to high >heaven!!) manufactured by a company called "Multi-Core" Regardless of >what flux you use, it cleans up the tip nice, bright and shiny ALL >the time, provided you use it often enough. They sell in ittsy-bitsy >miniscule shape, round little box, less than 1/2 inch across. I buy >15-20 of them - all in one go; tip them all into one metal container >and then send my soldering iron bits for a real bath, back-scrub and > total immersion. >I will send you some -, after New Year - total massage, rejuvenation >and spruce-up for old soldering bits....... Youy can FEEL the old >back-scratch therapy of your soldering bits going Aaaahhhhh!! > >I am NOW (and you will shortly!!) gorgeing myself in wonderful >photographs of YOU in UK, Chartres and Toby. Pure Delight!! >Cost me about USD.200 for the whole film to be put on CD. >Worth every Cent!! Kathe too!!! Will all arrive per snailmail >shortly. >Miss you. > >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > >/From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" > To: glass@bungi.com Subject: >Soldering Tip Corrosion Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:56:42 >-0800 (PST) Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > >It has been suggested that when the soldering tip begins to form the >"crude" and holes in the tip this may be due to overuse of flux. I can >accept this but I also tend to use a steel brush to get rid of the crude >and I may be damaging the tip even further. The only solution I know is >to replace the tip when this occurs. PJ My Dears Peggy and Elisabeth, These tiny tip cleaners are available from Warner-Crivellaro. I buy one at a time and use it until it won't help any more. Never thought of buying 15-20 and dumping them into one metal container! Happy Swedish & American Christmases to you both! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 23 20:54:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:20:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Soldering Tip Corrosion Date: Tue, 23 Dec 97 23:21:05 -0500 Message-ID: <199712240419.XAA09103@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >My Dear Peggy, > >....owing you a bit and a half..... it's coming... >No, but you DO need to clean your tip virtualluy every 15 >minutes or so.. It gets "sooted" up" quickly, from how you >descrivbe it. There is an easy and quick cure for that and one >that won't cost mega-bucks. Using flux DOES speed up the "sooting >process". In+ UK we have a "tip-cleaning bath" (stinks to high >heaven!!) manufactured by a company called "Multi-Core" Regardless of >what flux you use, it cleans up the tip nice, bright and shiny ALL >the time, provided you use it often enough. They sell in ittsy-bitsy >miniscule shape, round little box, less than 1/2 inch across. I buy >15-20 of them - all in one go; tip them all into one metal container >and then send my soldering iron bits for a real bath, back-scrub and > total immersion. >I will send you some -, after New Year - total massage, rejuvenation >and spruce-up for old soldering bits....... Youy can FEEL the old >back-scratch therapy of your soldering bits going Aaaahhhhh!! > >I am NOW (and you will shortly!!) gorgeing myself in wonderful >photographs of YOU in UK, Chartres and Toby. Pure Delight!! >Cost me about USD.200 for the whole film to be put on CD. >Worth every Cent!! Kathe too!!! Will all arrive per snailmail >shortly. >Miss you. > >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > >/From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" > To: glass@bungi.com Subject: >Soldering Tip Corrosion Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:56:42 >-0800 (PST) Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > >It has been suggested that when the soldering tip begins to form the >"crude" and holes in the tip this may be due to overuse of flux. I can >accept this but I also tend to use a steel brush to get rid of the crude >and I may be damaging the tip even further. The only solution I know is >to replace the tip when this occurs. PJ My Dears Peggy and Elisabeth, These tiny tip cleaners are available from Warner-Crivellaro. I buy one at a time and use it until it won't help any more. Never thought of buying 15-20 and dumping them into one metal container! Happy Swedish & American Christmases to you both! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 08:56:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 08:54:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Margaret41 From: Margaret41 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Intro-Dan and Suzanne Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:52:45 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec24.165245.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 09:12:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:11:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 09:34:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:33:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 09:44:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:43:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 09:55:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:54:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 10:12:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:11:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 10:27:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:26:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 10:42:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:40:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 10:56:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 10:55:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:11:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:10:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ee.net!pucky From: "Sheila" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: SMTP import error #-5 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:16:52 -0500 Message-ID: <199712241913.OAA18431@ee.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:17:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:16:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:24:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:24:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:26:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:25:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:29:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:29:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpsi.net!terry-l From: Terry Laskiwski To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: SMTP import error #-5 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:28:59 GMT Message-ID: <199712241928.TAA15309@shell.mpsi.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:36:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:35:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:39:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:39:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wepop.mediaone.net!slally From: Sean Lally To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: SMTP import error #-5 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 11:37:32 -0800 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this >everytime a msg comes in. Yup, looks like a loop running between the listserv and this persons mail server... Not much we can do (as users); the list administrator needs to take this address out of the loop or possibly the postmaster of the user needs to fix things on his/her end. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:43:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:43:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:47:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:46:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:50:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:50:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this >everytime a msg comes in. Yup, looks like a loop running between the listserv and this persons mail server... Not much we can do (as users); the list administrator needs to take this address out of the loop or possibly the postmaster of the user needs to fix things on his/her end. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:55:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:55:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 11:59:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:59:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:04:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:03:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this >everytime a msg comes in. Yup, looks like a loop running between the listserv and this persons mail server... Not much we can do (as users); the list administrator needs to take this address out of the loop or possibly the postmaster of the user needs to fix things on his/her end. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:08:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:07:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:09:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:09:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:10:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:10:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:14:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:14:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this >everytime a msg comes in. Yup, looks like a loop running between the listserv and this persons mail server... Not much we can do (as users); the list administrator needs to take this address out of the loop or possibly the postmaster of the user needs to fix things on his/her end. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:21:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:21:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:21:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:21:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:25:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:25:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat From: Carolyn Noel To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE! Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:17:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec24.101751.0> References: <<199712211924.LAA28355@mail1.teleport.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hope everyone has a joyous and safe holiday!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:25:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:25:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: epix.net!age49 From: age49@epix.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: SMTP import error #-5 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:25:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec24.102547.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:34:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:33:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: epix.net!age49 From: age49@epix.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: SMTP import error #-5 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:34:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec24.103412.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - > Hey Suzanne, we are famous!!! Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:34:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:34:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:34:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:34:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:35:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:35:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:36:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:35:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hope everyone has a joyous and safe holiday!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:43:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:43:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:46:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:45:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:47:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:46:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hope everyone has a joyous and safe holiday!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:51:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:50:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - > Hey Suzanne, we are famous!!! Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:57:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:56:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:57:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:57:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:58:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:58:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hope everyone has a joyous and safe holiday!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:59:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:58:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this >everytime a msg comes in. Yup, looks like a loop running between the listserv and this persons mail server... Not much we can do (as users); the list administrator needs to take this address out of the loop or possibly the postmaster of the user needs to fix things on his/her end. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 12:59:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:59:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - > Hey Suzanne, we are famous!!! Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 13:00:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:00:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 14:24:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:21:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 14:37:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:36:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 14:42:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:43:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 14:50:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:50:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 14:57:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:56:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:01:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:01:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:02:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:56:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:02:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:57:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:07:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:06:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:13:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:12:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:14:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:13:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:14:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:14:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:17:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:16:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:21:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:58:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hope everyone has a joyous and safe holiday!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:24:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:58:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this >everytime a msg comes in. Yup, looks like a loop running between the listserv and this persons mail server... Not much we can do (as users); the list administrator needs to take this address out of the loop or possibly the postmaster of the user needs to fix things on his/her end. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:28:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:27:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ime.net!dplummer From: Tina & Dave Plummer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: SMTP import HELP Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:50:10 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971224165010.007dd7e0@ime.net> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Help, I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem t , you wrote: >Hi Dan and Suzanne - > >I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >Bethlehem-Allentown area. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:30:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:28:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:30:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:28:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:31:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:29:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:31:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:30:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:35:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:34:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hope everyone has a joyous and safe holiday!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:37:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:37:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this >everytime a msg comes in. Yup, looks like a loop running between the listserv and this persons mail server... Not much we can do (as users); the list administrator needs to take this address out of the loop or possibly the postmaster of the user needs to fix things on his/her end. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:38:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:59:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - > Hey Suzanne, we are famous!!! Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:40:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:00:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:41:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:41:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Help, I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem t , you wrote: >Hi Dan and Suzanne - > >I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >Bethlehem-Allentown area. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:43:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:43:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: SMTP import HELP Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:39:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec24.13395.0> References: <<3.0.5.32.19971224165010.007dd7e0@ime.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tina & Dave Plummer wrote: > > Help, > I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing > something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem > > t , you wrote: > >Hi Dan and Suzanne - > > > >I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a > >stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an > >intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered > >in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection > >of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If > >stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the > >Bethlehem-Allentown area. > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass glenna will have to fix it when she comes back from her vacation... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:44:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:43:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:45:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:43:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:45:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:43:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:46:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:44:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hope everyone has a joyous and safe holiday!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:47:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:44:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:51:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:50:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - > Hey Suzanne, we are famous!!! Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:52:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:52:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:55:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:54:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this >everytime a msg comes in. Yup, looks like a loop running between the listserv and this persons mail server... Not much we can do (as users); the list administrator needs to take this address out of the loop or possibly the postmaster of the user needs to fix things on his/her end. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 15:56:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:55:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tina & Dave Plummer wrote: > > Help, > I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing > something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem > > t , you wrote: > >Hi Dan and Suzanne - > > > >I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a > >stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an > >intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered > >in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection > >of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If > >stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the > >Bethlehem-Allentown area. > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass glenna will have to fix it when she comes back from her vacation... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:00:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:57:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:02:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:58:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Help, I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem t , you wrote: >Hi Dan and Suzanne - > >I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >Bethlehem-Allentown area. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:02:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:59:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hope everyone has a joyous and safe holiday!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:02:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:00:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:03:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:01:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:04:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:03:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:08:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:07:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - > Hey Suzanne, we are famous!!! Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:08:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:08:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this >everytime a msg comes in. Yup, looks like a loop running between the listserv and this persons mail server... Not much we can do (as users); the list administrator needs to take this address out of the loop or possibly the postmaster of the user needs to fix things on his/her end. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:10:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:10:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tina & Dave Plummer wrote: > > Help, > I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing > something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem > > t , you wrote: > >Hi Dan and Suzanne - > > > >I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a > >stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an > >intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered > >in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection > >of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If > >stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the > >Bethlehem-Allentown area. > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass glenna will have to fix it when she comes back from her vacation... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:11:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:11:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:12:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:11:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hope everyone has a joyous and safe holiday!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:12:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:12:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:15:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:14:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:15:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:14:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:18:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:17:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - > Hey Suzanne, we are famous!!! Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:18:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:17:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Help, I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem t , you wrote: >Hi Dan and Suzanne - > >I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >Bethlehem-Allentown area. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:19:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:19:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this >everytime a msg comes in. Yup, looks like a loop running between the listserv and this persons mail server... Not much we can do (as users); the list administrator needs to take this address out of the loop or possibly the postmaster of the user needs to fix things on his/her end. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:28:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:26:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:28:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:27:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:29:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:26:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tina & Dave Plummer wrote: > > Help, > I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing > something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem > > t , you wrote: > >Hi Dan and Suzanne - > > > >I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a > >stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an > >intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered > >in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection > >of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If > >stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the > >Bethlehem-Allentown area. > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass glenna will have to fix it when she comes back from her vacation... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 16:29:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:27:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 17:58:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 17:56:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!SPRECHFAM From: SPRECHFAM To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: unscribe Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:23:43 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec25.12343.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Please unscribed. Thank you. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 18:02:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:01:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 18:43:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 15:58:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 18:54:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:53:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hope everyone has a joyous and safe holiday!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 18:54:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:53:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:05:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:03:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hope everyone has a joyous and safe holiday!! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:05:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:04:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:06:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:03:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:06:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:04:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:13:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:17:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Help, I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem t , you wrote: >Hi Dan and Suzanne - > >I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >Bethlehem-Allentown area. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:15:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:13:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:19:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:17:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - > Hey Suzanne, we are famous!!! Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:20:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:18:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: SMTP import error #-5 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 22:20:09 -0500 Message-ID: <199712250318.WAA08734@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Yeah, so am I!!!! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:23:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:20:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dan and Suzanne - I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the Bethlehem-Allentown area. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:24:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:20:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:28:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:21:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Im getting them - I think there is something wrong with the mail server or something.. Just thought I'd let oyu know At 02:16 PM 12/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. > >Thanks >Sheila > >---------- >: From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net >: To: glass@bungi.com >: Subject: SMTP import error #-5 >: Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM >: >: Hi Dan and Suzanne - >: >: I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >: stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >: intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >: in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >: of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >: stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >: Bethlehem-Allentown area. >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >: ---- >: For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >: To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >: Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:33:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:27:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 19:40:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:27:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 20:59:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:58:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 20:59:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:59:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 21:03:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 21:03:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Help, I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem t , you wrote: >Hi Dan and Suzanne - > >I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a >stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an >intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered >in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection >of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If >stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the >Bethlehem-Allentown area. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 21:10:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 21:08:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NO*ALIAS@mssb.net wrote: > > Hi Dan and Suzanne - I feel great, I have never expected to be welcome, about 17 times. Thanks Dan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 24 21:13:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 21:13:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mssb.net!NO*ALIAS From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net To: glass@bungi.com Subject: SMTP import error #-5 Date: 0 xxx 1980 00:00:00 EDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk is anyone else receiving this msg? I am not getting anything but this everytime a msg comes in. Thanks Sheila ---------- : From: NO*ALIAS@mssb.net : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: SMTP import error #-5 : Date: Monday, December 31, 1979 11:00 PM : : Hi Dan and Suzanne - : : I am also a newbie. I live in the Philadelphia, PA area and just completed a : stained glass intro class via Community College of Phila. Also looking for an : intro lead came class closer to home (Philly), there is a class being offered : in Bristol, PA by Rainbow Stained Glass. Rainbow has an excellent collection : of glass at reasonable prices and most newbie and advanced user supplies. If : stocking up on supplies, you may wish to check out Warner-Crivellaro in the : Bethlehem-Allentown area. : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 25 02:15:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 02:13:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: SMTP newbie problem Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 05:20:55 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing > something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem Yes, whoever's sending that message is making an error of some kind and we'll just have to suffer along until Glenna returns from Disneyland. Something like this happens every year while she's away during the holidays. Karma. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 25 04:05:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 04:04:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Eliminating SMPT error Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 07:12:35 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Set your preferences to delete all messages from mssb.net ... that'll get rid of them before you see them. Otherwise, just delete 'em. Yes, it's a pain to delete 64 messages, which is what I had to do this morning, but otherwise you'll have to read 'em all, which'll get boring. The fact that the address is NOALIAS@mssb.net means that the sender hasn't properly set up their email software. Until they do, we'll be deluged with the messages. Glenna will doubtless let us know when we can take the autodelete off that address. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 25 08:09:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 08:08:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ee.net!pucky From: "Sheila" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Eliminating SMPT error Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 11:14:48 -0500 Message-ID: <199712251611.LAA25866@ee.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks for the info Albert. I am willing to try anything....had 90 msgs. this morning !!!!! Mainly repeats ! Happy Holidays ! Sheila ---------- : From: Albert Lewis : To: glass@bungi.com : Subject: Eliminating SMPT error : Date: Thursday, December 25, 1997 2:12 AM : : Set your preferences to delete all messages from mssb.net ... that'll : get rid of them before you see them. Otherwise, just delete 'em. Yes, : it's a pain to delete 64 messages, which is what I had to do this : morning, but otherwise you'll have to read 'em all, which'll get : boring. : : The fact that the address is NOALIAS@mssb.net means that the sender : hasn't properly set up their email software. Until they do, we'll be : deluged with the messages. Glenna will doubtless let us know when we : can take the autodelete off that address. : : Albert : : ---- : For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com : To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com : Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 25 13:20:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 13:19:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mercury.net!johnnyc From: johnny west To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: remove for awile Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 16:23:10 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec25.82310.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 25 15:10:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 15:10:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Eliminating SMPT error Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:06:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971225171108.27578df6@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --does anyone know how to tell Eudora to delete these messages automatically-? it doesn't seem to have anything called preferences and "options" doesn't seem to help At 07:12 AM 12/25/97 +0000, you wrote: >Set your preferences to delete all messages from mssb.net ... that'll >get rid of them before you see them. Otherwise, just delete 'em. Yes, >it's a pain to delete 64 messages, which is what I had to do this >morning, but otherwise you'll have to read 'em all, which'll get >boring. > >The fact that the address is NOALIAS@mssb.net means that the sender >hasn't properly set up their email software. Until they do, we'll be >deluged with the messages. Glenna will doubtless let us know when we >can take the autodelete off that address. > >Albert > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde, Puntarenas COSTA RICA phone 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 25 15:48:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 15:48:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ime.net!dplummer From: Tina & Dave Plummer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Eliminating SMPT error -Eudora Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 18:46:59 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971225184659.007d6a30@ime.net> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971225171108.27578df6@sol.racsa.co.cr>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Using Eudora go to tools and filters them match incoming mail with the header FROM NO*ALIAS@mssb.net - works like a charm Tina Plummer dplummer@ime.net >--does anyone know how to tell Eudora to delete these messages >automatically-? it doesn't seem to have anything called preferences and >"options" doesn't seem to help > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 25 17:55:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:55:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hal-pc.org!kkelly From: "Kathryn C. Kelly" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Mirror Art Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 19:52:37 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec25.135237.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users Precedence: bulk Recently, while browsing through the Internet, I found an artist who creates masterpieces with mirror. Unfortunately I can't find his Web page again. One of his works is a very large Buddha. If you know his Web location, please post it! Kathryn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Dec 25 18:39:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 18:38:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: "Jackie" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Dalle de Verre....... Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 01:42:52 -0600 Message-ID: <199712260242.UAA25288@perham.eot.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk (Dalle de Verre) Does anyone know what this method is can anyone explain it to me and also how exactly to pronounce it????? Thanks Jackie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 05:44:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 05:43:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Glasangels From: Glasangels To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: SMTP import HELP,HELP! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 08:42:57 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec26.134257.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-24 18:39:49 EST, you write: << Help, I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem >> It's not just you, I've had dozens of these in the last 2 days...BUMMER Somebody help us!!!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 06:15:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 06:14:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ee.net!pucky From: "Sheila" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: SMTP import HELP,HELP! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 09:21:01 -0500 Message-ID: <199712261417.JAA05345@ee.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Look at the msg from Albert Lewis with the subject "Eliminating SMTP error" I did this and it worked for me. Btw......THANKS Albert ! I had 90 msgs. yesterday morning ! Good Luck Sheila ---------- | From: Glasangels | To: glass@bungi.com | Subject: Re: SMTP import HELP,HELP! | Date: Friday, December 26, 1997 8:42 AM | | In a message dated 97-12-24 18:39:49 EST, you write: | | << | Help, | I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing | something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem | | >> | | It's not just you, I've had dozens of these in the last 2 days...BUMMER | Somebody help us!!!!! | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 07:40:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 07:40:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: glasstreasures.com!sgt From: Stephanie Hansen To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: SMTP import HELP,HELP! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 09:39:04 -0600 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971226093904.00889530@glasstreasures.com> References: <<199712261417.JAA05345@ee.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I think the problem must have been fixed somewhere down the line...I haven't done anything to filter out those repeat messages, and I haven't had any since early yesterday afternoon. Thank goodness! Steph ~ >Look at the msg from Albert Lewis with the subject "Eliminating SMTP error" I did this and it >worked for me. Btw......THANKS Albert ! I had 90 msgs. yesterday morning ! > >Good Luck >Sheila >| << >| Help, >| I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing >| something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem >| >| >> >| >| It's not just you, I've had dozens of these in the last 2 days...BUMMER >| Somebody help us!!!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 08:12:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 08:12:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Repeat Date: Fri, 26 Dec 97 11:09:50 EST Message-ID: <971226.111126.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well, not only am I getting the same message over and over, i am getting the messages about the message over and over. I did not hit reply to create this message, so if you all get this over and over... At least I feel wanted today. -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 08:21:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 08:21:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: SMTP import HELP,HELP! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 08:21:16 PST Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: SMTP import HELP,HELP!" on Dec 26, 9:39, Stephanie Hansen writes:] > I think the problem must have been fixed somewhere down the line...I > haven't done anything to filter out those repeat messages, and I haven't > had any since early yesterday afternoon. Thank goodness! > >| I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing > >| something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem This person has been deleted from the group. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 08:22:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 08:22:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:22:12 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec26.162212.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk oops well I for got about the acetlyne part and yup hubby doesn't always give me all the facts, you know how men are you are just supposed to know what they are thinking deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 09:58:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 09:57:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!madglass From: Mary Ann Dulemba To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Youghiogheny Glass Tour Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:53:49 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971226125349.00799210@usaor.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Wanted to pass on this note: If any living in Pennsylvania and has access to PCN TV (http://www.pcntv.com), the PCN Tour this Sunday at 8 p.m. is at Youghiogheny Glass. I hope you find it interesting! Happy Holidays to all. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 11:34:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:34:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lobo.net!exotic From: "Myrddn" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:33:18 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On 9 Dec 97, Albert Lewis wrote: > > > To give credit where credit is due, they ARE good for lamp glass; as > > regards tools, they are total rip-off merchants. > > Two things occur to me: 1. They need some competition to set them > straight; 2. If the continue their attitude and practice, they'll put > themselves out of business even without competition. > > Albert As long as buying public is uneducated, they will continue to get away with it. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Blessed be Myrddn speak your mind, mind your speech ---------------------------------- To subscribe to Paganspace! send mail to paganspace-request@lobo.net with only the word suscribe in the body. To unsubscribe from PaganSpace sned to paganspace@lobo.net with unsuscribe the only word inthe body. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 11:44:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:44:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mfi.com!mfi__admin_at_mfi__exchange From: "MFI_Admin" To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="simple boundary" Subject: cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message Date: Fri, 26 Dec 97 11:45:41 -0800 Message-ID: <9712268831.AA883165541@mfi.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message is undeliverable. Reason: Unable to access cc:Mail Post office. Please retry later. Original text follows: --------------------- --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from daver.bungi.com by mfi.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) ; Fri, 26 Dec 97 11:45:37 -0800 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:34:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lobo.net!exotic From: "Myrddn" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass supplies (UK) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:33:18 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On 9 Dec 97, Albert Lewis wrote: > > > To give credit where credit is due, they ARE good for lamp glass; as > > regards tools, they are total rip-off merchants. > > Two things occur to me: 1. They need some competition to set them > straight; 2. If the continue their attitude and practice, they'll put > themselves out of business even without competition. > > Albert As long as buying public is uneducated, they will continue to get away with it. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Blessed be Myrddn speak your mind, mind your speech ---------------------------------- To subscribe to Paganspace! send mail to paganspace-request@lobo.net with only the word suscribe in the body. To unsubscribe from PaganSpace sned to paganspace@lobo.net with unsuscribe the only word inthe body. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --simple boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 11:50:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:49:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lobo.net!exotic From: "Myrddn" To: Pat Diacca Topp , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: great scanner! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:47:32 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On 9 Dec 97, Pat Diacca Topp wrote: Those who said you shoulda got a Mac shoulda had there head examined. The great problem is that peole have a tendency to go with a brand name. You were advised to go with a brand name. The fact is that as s you have learned, the technician is more important than the manufacturer. I built and sold computers for five years. I was always successful in fixing any of the problems that arose from the computers I built. I was also an authorized repairman for Dell and several more mail order companies like them. It is impossible to be more than a replacer under the terms of the earranty agreement. And nobody was willing, (because it was supposed to be covered under warranty) to pay me to set it up correctly, when the had made errors in the set up at the factory. Brand name is a fallacy, because in the long run, the major manufactureres use the same boards intherir machines that I can buy from a wholesale supplier found in Computer Reseller. I recommend you look for a computer (not a brand) and also look for a chain that has an onsite repair facility (Ultimate has one here in Albuquerque, or buy from a local builder that has a good reputation. My experience with randnames is that they were always overpriced for the quality received. > In reference to my "computer woes" Most everyone answered I shoulda got a MAC! > > Great idea, but the guru I originally asked didn't steer me toward a mac. This > is what I now know I should have instead of struggling with Corel 50, Photo > Paint, which is unnecessarily complicated. I also don't have any more money > to spend. The technician has this one up and running, I now have 128 MG of > Ram and 3.66 GB of memory so can finally work everything plus a zip to store > graphics. But am catching on to Corel and getting what I want out of it. > > I did do one thing that actually worked. Bought a Scan Ace III made by > Pacific Image. I have just played with it, and scanned in direct some > small fused glass ornaments, just laid them on the bed and scanned in, and > printed them up on the Epson 600 printer at 1440 DPI. No camera needed. I am > so impressed with this scanner. Have paid out hundreds of dollar to > professional photographers who couldn't get the subtlety of the carefree > luster patterns as good as the scanner direct! So it really works fantastic > with the small flat pieces, so now can put together a great looking brochure > to send out, and can change photos as often as I need. All my pieces are one > of a kind, and I change very rapidly so it has been difficult to market to > galleries since I can no longer do much traveling due to health. I am so sold > on this scanner and the resolution, I should become a dealer for them. HA! > > Pat > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Blessed be Myrddn speak your mind, mind your speech ---------------------------------- To subscribe to Paganspace! send mail to paganspace-request@lobo.net with only the word suscribe in the body. To unsubscribe from PaganSpace sned to paganspace@lobo.net with unsuscribe the only word inthe body. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 12:00:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:59:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ee.net!pucky From: "Sheila" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: SMTP import HELP,HELP! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 15:06:09 -0500 Message-ID: <199712262002.PAA10328@ee.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thank you Glenna !!!! Sheila ---------- | From: Glenna Rand | To: glass@bungi.com | Subject: Re: SMTP import HELP,HELP! | Date: Friday, December 26, 1997 11:21 AM | | [In the message entitled "Re: SMTP import HELP,HELP!" on Dec 26, 9:39, Stephanie Hansen writes:] | > I think the problem must have been fixed somewhere down the line...I | > haven't done anything to filter out those repeat messages, and I haven't | > had any since early yesterday afternoon. Thank goodness! | | > >| I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing | > >| something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem | | This person has been deleted from the group. | | | -- | Glenna Rand | gjr@bungi.com | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 12:00:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:00:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mfi.com!mfi__admin_at_mfi__exchange From: "MFI_Admin" To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="simple boundary" Subject: cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message Date: Fri, 26 Dec 97 12:01:16 -0800 Message-ID: <9712268831.AA883166476@mfi.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message is undeliverable. Reason: Unable to access cc:Mail Post office. Please retry later. Original text follows: --------------------- --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from daver.bungi.com by mfi.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) ; Fri, 26 Dec 97 12:01:09 -0800 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:49:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lobo.net!exotic From: "Myrddn" To: Pat Diacca Topp , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: great scanner! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:47:32 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On 9 Dec 97, Pat Diacca Topp wrote: Those who said you shoulda got a Mac shoulda had there head examined. The great problem is that peole have a tendency to go with a brand name. You were advised to go with a brand name. The fact is that as s you have learned, the technician is more important than the manufacturer. I built and sold computers for five years. I was always successful in fixing any of the problems that arose from the computers I built. I was also an authorized repairman for Dell and several more mail order companies like them. It is impossible to be more than a replacer under the terms of the earranty agreement. And nobody was willing, (because it was supposed to be covered under warranty) to pay me to set it up correctly, when the had made errors in the set up at the factory. Brand name is a fallacy, because in the long run, the major manufactureres use the same boards intherir machines that I can buy from a wholesale supplier found in Computer Reseller. I recommend you look for a computer (not a brand) and also look for a chain that has an onsite repair facility (Ultimate has one here in Albuquerque, or buy from a local builder that has a good reputation. My experience with randnames is that they were always overpriced for the quality received. > In reference to my "computer woes" Most everyone answered I shoulda got a MAC! > > Great idea, but the guru I originally asked didn't steer me toward a mac. This > is what I now know I should have instead of struggling with Corel 50, Photo > Paint, which is unnecessarily complicated. I also don't have any more money > to spend. The technician has this one up and running, I now have 128 MG of > Ram and 3.66 GB of memory so can finally work everything plus a zip to store > graphics. But am catching on to Corel and getting what I want out of it. > > I did do one thing that actually worked. Bought a Scan Ace III made by > Pacific Image. I have just played with it, and scanned in direct some > small fused glass ornaments, just laid them on the bed and scanned in, and > printed them up on the Epson 600 printer at 1440 DPI. No camera needed. I am > so impressed with this scanner. Have paid out hundreds of dollar to > professional photographers who couldn't get the subtlety of the carefree > luster patterns as good as the scanner direct! So it really works fantastic > with the small flat pieces, so now can put together a great looking brochure > to send out, and can change photos as often as I need. All my pieces are one > of a kind, and I change very rapidly so it has been difficult to market to > galleries since I can no longer do much traveling due to health. I am so sold > on this scanner and the resolution, I should become a dealer for them. HA! > > Pat > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Blessed be Myrddn speak your mind, mind your speech ---------------------------------- To subscribe to Paganspace! send mail to paganspace-request@lobo.net with only the word suscribe in the body. To unsubscribe from PaganSpace sned to paganspace@lobo.net with unsuscribe the only word inthe body. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --simple boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 12:12:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:12:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Where to visit in Paris Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:12:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec26.201222.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, all, hope you are all recovering from whatever Christmas or holiday festivities came your way. Our next big event is a fleeting visit to Paris in a couple of weeks. We will be in Paris (France) to visit a lighting exhibition but will have a day and a half free when we would like to visit some modern (post war) stained glass installations if we can find any. Have any of you any suggestions as to what sites or churches to try to visit? Regards Elizabeth & Sam Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 12:12:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:12:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lobo.net!exotic From: "Myrddn" To: "Toby" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 13:11:48 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have been following the comments about tools for some time, and lurkingly have been bothered by them. Hence I unlurk. A tool is a tool. The skill that one develops in using a tool is more important than the too. I use a glass cutter, running pliers, grozing pliers, and grinder. My skill with each of these determines the quality of my creation. If I consider the quality and art of my work to be the most import aspect of what Ido with glass, then what matters what tool is used? It is my understanding that the phrase "A carpenter is only as good as his tools: is genuinely misunderstood. It comes from the apprenticeship concept of our past, when to become a journeyman carpenter, the apprentice had to mae his own tools - literally. Planes were blocks of wood with the tang of the blade through them. Squares and levers were made from the wood. The apprentice was going to use those tools to make his furniture and cabinets with. They determined whether or not the output was a work of art, something to be appreciated. But the present craftsman, using tools massed produced by machinery, is able to be sure that the cut made with a saw, or the square will be true. Am less a craftsman because I use a grinder to insure that the copper foil goes on an edge that is parallel to the other side? Am a less a craftsperson because the vagarities of the glass leave ripples that will become obvious were I to leave them? If you can cut a line that is exactly what you want, then more power to you. But I feel that I am being put down for not having you skill and your age. I feel I produce quality work, that I am proud to take to my customer and say, :Here, this is my work." I will never be able to spend 40 years learning the craft, because I am almost60 now. If I live to be 100, I will want to do other things by then. So I use the tools that help me, and strive to produce the best I can, and constantly improve. Tools are not the master. On 11 Dec 97, Toby wrote: > Dear Don, > Precisely my point. > I don't reject tools; what I was saying was, that they are no > substitute for genuine hard-learnt skills. One can get obsessive > about "gizmos". They are only tools, but not a substitute to skills. > Learn the skills FIRST, says I, and then you will be able to be > much more discerning of what tools you really require. > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > > > It is just another tool. And a tool > that takes some different skills to operate. > > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Blessed be Myrddn speak your mind, mind your speech ---------------------------------- To subscribe to Paganspace! send mail to paganspace-request@lobo.net with only the word suscribe in the body. To unsubscribe from PaganSpace sned to paganspace@lobo.net with unsuscribe the only word inthe body. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 12:19:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:19:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lobo.net!exotic From: "Myrddn" To: mike peck , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Antifreeze in my grinder water? Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 13:18:36 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On 11 Dec 97, mike peck wrote: > Charles, Charles, Charles, > > > PALEEEZE, don't tell these folks to use antifreeze in their grinder > water. If you feel that you need to add something for lubrication, try > baby oil, cooking oil or something water soluable, but NON-TOXIC ..... > and certainly not antifreeze! This is worse than using kerosene for > cutter lubricant. > What is wrong with using karoseneon your cutter? Blessed be Myrddn speak your mind, mind your speech ---------------------------------- To subscribe to Paganspace! send mail to paganspace-request@lobo.net with only the word suscribe in the body. To unsubscribe from PaganSpace sned to paganspace@lobo.net with unsuscribe the only word inthe body. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 13:49:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 13:48:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: mike peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Antifreeze in my grinder water? Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 15:50:52 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec26.95052.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Summit Stained Glass (see us at: http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Myrddn wrote: > > On 11 Dec 97, mike peck wrote: > > > Charles, Charles, Charles, > > > > > > PALEEEZE, don't tell these folks to use antifreeze in their grinder > > water. If you feel that you need to add something for lubrication, try > > baby oil, cooking oil or something water soluable, but NON-TOXIC ..... > > and certainly not antifreeze! This is worse than using kerosene for > > cutter lubricant. > > > What is wrong with using karoseneon your cutter? > Blessed be > Myrddn > Well, like antifreeze, kerosene is toxic. Try some cooking oil, baby oil, or vegetable oil, but nothing petroleum based. There is no way to keep it off your hands when scoring glass. Kerosene might be an adequate lubricant, but it absorbs through your skin and is filtered out through your liver. Not a good choice for lubricants. Mike ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 15:01:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 15:01:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!studioone1 From: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mail Delivery Subsystem : Returned Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:03:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec26.13357.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Mail Delivery Subsystem To: Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: bungi.con: host not found) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:54:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712260354.WAAAA15168@r1.boston.juno.com> This is a MIME-encapsulated message --WAAAA15168.883108482/r1.boston.juno.com The original message was received at Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:54:12 -0500 (EST) from m7.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.196] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 ... Host unknown (Name server: bungi.con: host not found) --WAAAA15168.883108482/r1.boston.juno.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; r1.boston.juno.com Arrival-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:54:12 -0500 (EST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; request@bungi.con Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; bungi.con Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:54:41 -0500 (EST) --WAAAA15168.883108482/r1.boston.juno.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from m7.boston.juno.com (m7.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.196]) by r1.boston.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.6.Beta0/2.0.kim) with ESMTP id WAAAA15162 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:54:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from studioone1@juno.com) by m7.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id WsV20808; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:53:42 EST To: request@bungi.con Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 23:01:02 -0500 Subject: remove from list Message-ID: <19971225.230103.16678.1.studioone1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3 From: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott) Please remove my name from your list. Unfortunately the current problem is creating a major log of duplicate messages. I have just deleted ALL 156 by hand and do not wish to do so again. Will try again in the future. thanks studioone1@juno.com --WAAAA15168.883108482/r1.boston.juno.com-- --------- End forwarded message ---------- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 15:37:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 15:37:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting glass Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:35:35 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Dec26.113535.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Myrddn; Thank you for response that I wished to say ,but didn't.Happy New Year to you and all...... Don writes: >I have been following the comments about tools for some time, and >lurkingly >have been bothered by them. Hence I unlurk. > >A tool is a tool. The skill that one develops in using a tool is more >important >than the too. I use a glass cutter, running pliers, grozing pliers, >and >grinder. My skill with each of these determines the quality of my >creation. >If I consider the quality and art of my work to be the most import >aspect of >what Ido with glass, then what matters what tool is used? > >It is my understanding that the phrase "A carpenter is only as good as >his >tools: is genuinely misunderstood. It comes from the apprenticeship >concept of >our past, when to become a journeyman carpenter, the apprentice had to >mae his >own tools - literally. Planes were blocks of wood with the tang of >the blade >through them. Squares and levers were made from the wood. The >apprentice was >going to use those tools to make his furniture and cabinets with. They > >determined whether or not the output was a work of art, something to >be >appreciated. > >But the present craftsman, using tools massed produced by machinery, >is able to >be sure that the cut made with a saw, or the square will be true. Am >less a >craftsman because I use a grinder to insure that the copper foil goes >on an >edge that is parallel to the other side? Am a less a craftsperson >because the >vagarities of the glass leave ripples that will become obvious were I >to leave >them? > >If you can cut a line that is exactly what you want, then more power >to you. >But I feel that I am being put down for not having you skill and your >age. I >feel I produce quality work, that I am proud to take to my customer >and say, >:Here, this is my work." > >I will never be able to spend 40 years learning the craft, because I >am >almost60 now. If I live to be 100, I will want to do other things by >then. So >I use the tools that help me, and strive to produce the best I can, >and >constantly improve. Tools are not the master. > > > >On 11 Dec 97, Toby wrote: > >> Dear Don, >> Precisely my point. >> I don't reject tools; what I was saying was, that they are no >> substitute for genuine hard-learnt skills. One can get obsessive >> about "gizmos". They are only tools, but not a substitute to skills. >> Learn the skills FIRST, says I, and then you will be able to be >> much more discerning of what tools you really require. >> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK >> >> >> It is just another tool. And a tool >> that takes some different skills to operate. >> >> ---- >> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >> ---- >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >Blessed be >Myrddn > >speak your mind, mind your speech >---------------------------------- >To subscribe to Paganspace! send mail to paganspace-request@lobo.net >with only the word suscribe in the body. >To unsubscribe from PaganSpace sned to paganspace@lobo.net with >unsuscribe the only word inthe body. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 15:56:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 15:56:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netrox.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Eliminating SMPT error Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:55:48 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971226185548.007195cc@pop.netrox.net> References: <<1.5.4.16.19971225171108.27578df6@sol.racsa.co.cr>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Meg, I've been waiting for you to post to the group so I could send you a message of gratitude for the lizards. It was very nice of you to go to the trouble of sending them! They are very cute and may work for one of the places I have planned for geckos! Many thanks! Hope your Christmas was bright. If you have Eudora Pro you can use Filters under Tools to filter out unwanted messages -- Eudora Light, there are no filters. The problem seems to have subsided in any case! Happy New Year! Cheers, M.-J. At 05:06 PM 12/25/97 -0600, you wrote: >--does anyone know how to tell Eudora to delete these messages ****What I write is just what *I* think. Take what *you* like and leave the rest.**** M.-J. Taylor Although we cannot change the direction of the wind, we can adjust our sails. (Unknown) |\ ( ) _____________________________________________|_\_____________________ ----- -_-_ -- - - ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 17:46:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:45:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Dalles de verre Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:52:48 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk How to pronounce it? "Doll duh ver," with the "ver" sounding like "where" said beginning with "v." A single piece of the chunk glass that is used to create dalles de verre is called a "dalle." The plural is "dalles de verre." It was and is a technique by which chunks of glass are fixed into a matrix of concrete or fiberglass. It was very popular in the U.S. a few decades ago, but it has a tendency to leak badly, so few new projects have been built with it in recent years. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 18:25:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:25:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: emwv.com!katglass From: Zor Prime To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dalles de verre Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:18:20 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec26.141820.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Gamma Force Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > How to pronounce it? "Doll duh ver," with the "ver" sounding like > "where" said beginning with "v." > > A single piece of the chunk glass that is used to create dalles de > verre is called a "dalle." The plural is "dalles de verre." It was > and is a technique by which chunks of glass are fixed into a matrix > of concrete or fiberglass. It was very popular in the U.S. a few > decades ago, but it has a tendency to leak badly, so few new projects > have been built with it in recent years. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Just a note on an interesting article my husband told me about. It was in the Charleston Daily Mail, a local newspaper. Blenko Glass of Milton, WV is preparing to make a glass floor for the county (Putnam?) courthouse. You will be albe to see through to the lower level. He said it is to be made of thick slabs of glass. I can only guess that they will be using dalles de verre, as I have read that they make dalles. Regardless, you can bet that I'm going to make a trip to the courthouse to see it when it is finished. Happy New Year! Kathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 18:26:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:26:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wepop.mediaone.net!slally From: Sean Lally To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: SMTP import HELP,HELP! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 97 18:26:14 -0800 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >> I think the problem must have been fixed somewhere down the line...I >> haven't done anything to filter out those repeat messages, and I haven't >> had any since early yesterday afternoon. Thank goodness! > >> >| I have 43 messages with this tag, all saying the same thing. Am I doing >> >| something wrong? Does anyone else have this problem > >This person has been deleted from the group. > > >-- >Glenna Rand Hurray, Glenna!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 19:16:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:15:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:15:02 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec27.3152.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-19 10:34:20 EST, you write: << ry to debunk your theory, but I'm right handed & I cut towards my oh so weary body. >> I have no problem with any of my theories being "debunk" (LOL) - As much as I dislike being wrong I really hate being wrong and not knowing it. I have another theory - could heighth of body versus work table heighth have something to do with it? LuAnn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 19:24:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:24:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: "Jackie" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Dalles de verre Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 02:27:21 -0600 Message-ID: <199712270327.VAA20369@perham.eot.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thank you....I need to see and feel it to fully understand it.....It sounds like some sort of mosaic???? Does it have lead??? Ssorry sometimes things aren't as clear to me.... Jackie ---------- > From: Albert Lewis > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Dalles de verre > Date: Friday, December 26, 1997 2:52 PM > > How to pronounce it? "Doll duh ver," with the "ver" sounding like > "where" said beginning with "v." > > A single piece of the chunk glass that is used to create dalles de > verre is called a "dalle." The plural is "dalles de verre." It was > and is a technique by which chunks of glass are fixed into a matrix > of concrete or fiberglass. It was very popular in the U.S. a few > decades ago, but it has a tendency to leak badly, so few new projects > have been built with it in recent years. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 20:11:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:11:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!lydia From: "Lydia" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dalles de verre Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:14:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec26.181428.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >WV is preparing to make a glass floor for the county (Putnam?) >courthouse. You will be albe to see through to the lower level. He said >it is to be made of thick slabs of glass. I can only guess that they >will be using >dalles de verre, as I have read that they make dalles. > >Regardless, you can bet that I'm going to make a trip to the courthouse >to see it when it is finished. > >Happy New Year! > >Kathy Oh My!!! that sounds wonderful!!! but I wouldn't wear a dress when you go visit .. hehehehehhe ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 21:17:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:17:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wepop.mediaone.net!slally From: Sean Lally To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: great scanner! Date: Fri, 26 Dec 97 21:16:51 -0800 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > The >great problem is that peole have a tendency to go with a brand name Perhaps you misunderstood, the debate was about the OS used, not who made the hardware. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 21:50:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:50:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dalles de verre Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 00:44:23, -0500 Message-ID: <199712270544.AAA15672@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jacjie writes: Thank you....I need to see and feel it to fully understand it.....It sounds like some sort of mosaic???? Does it have lead??? Sorry sometimes things aren't as clear to me.... Jackie Bob writes, Just a bit more on Dalles de verre. The dalles are about 8" X 12" X 1" and come in a wide range of cathedral colors. They are normally scored with a glass cutter, turned over and placed on a block of lead or wood ( which may or may not have an anvil) and broken with a hammer and chisel. With practice rather good straight line breaks are achieved. A carbide tile saw may be used but I am sure some would think of this as grinding. :-) Now you are ready for the fun and may I say art part. The cut edge of the dalle is flaked away with a carbide chipping hammer to create beautiful facets. Now lay out your pieces in a wooden frame of the desired size and sprinkle a good coating of sand of the desired color between the pieces and then fill up the cracks with epoxy. There is more to it than this but I think you get the idea. Years ago and perhaps now Heritage Glass in Logan, UT, USA (801 752-5501) offered free samples which totaled about 50 1 X 1" cubes. Early examples of these windows were done with cement or concrete rather than epoxy and were not very water tight. All are rock resistant and can be stunningly beautiful. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (If God needs my advice then He is not what I had in mind.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 21:58:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:57:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Dalles de verre Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:34:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec26.133426.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: Lydia [SMTP:lydia@voicenet.com] Sent: Friday, December 26, 1997 8:14 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dalles de verre >WV is preparing to make a glass floor for the county (Putnam?) >courthouse. You will be albe to see through to the lower level. He said >it is to be made of thick slabs of glass. I can only guess that they >will be using >dalles de verre, as I have read that they make dalles. > >Regardless, you can bet that I'm going to make a trip to the courthouse >to see it when it is finished. > >Happy New Year! > >Kathy Oh My!!! that sounds wonderful!!! but I wouldn't wear a dress when you go visit .. hehehehehhe [Glenn Spicer] actually you should wear a dress, just let me know when you plan on being there begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@L%`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`@ $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````/0`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0!33510`&=L M87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !```` M$ ```&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`#`!4,`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````2 M````)V=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;2<````"`0LP`0```!4```!33510.D=,05-3 M0$)53D=)+D-/30`````#```Y``````L`0#H!````'@#V7P$````0````9VQA M`' ``0`` M`!0```!213H@1&%L;&5S(&1E('9E $D!(L$R!H908`='5D+&EO!= 10&$$8')P2Q-0$3!S',!"0QS M0W$`<&%D81GZ&)@3XC%B-A\K:3,V`4 4@&]6= 60!4 M(H)/!1!GCPN !T = M@00086=E(H,_&98B%"'A"Q,B% (`:2T(,30T&M%I,3@P1P% #- F(V(@1@-A M.B4,@V(18$QY'5!A((!;4TU44#IL*%*H0'9O'(%N$4 N!:#\;5T9E2=0!F " M,">W)W"J:1\`>1S 1 6090;0$020(#(V', Q.3F)&^ X.B8@(%!-*C2 H4'5T\1[@;3\I-B4Y<0`@$U"B=1$P+B!9 M"& @`_#M,< @+& X`&P\,3>1$3#%/)%H`V!U9V@W@CDR70D`=RQQ'! R0&P[ M@$CO'0`CD"NP-B5I!4 VP3>19SPQ`, R$6]F.2$-X&M[/- +8&($($#1+N,[ M@$G_.6 #D0(@*0`NT I0!!$Y,/9A!4 Y,7DV)3OF.U W4?\V)1\`,3NQCT*"+&!#HD.1 M22=M+M#[*7 W:W0%$3V6.N@V)3RU?3_!=QSP`Z _Q"7P`P!SA1SP9$D-2&%P M<#G I0?"64=P"H&_&%(,,C,'&5(HD!P*70,PWR@0#$ 18#@`(E!U,;$YP-]* MLE!@5P)7>QS :CM0!4#''! %0 > (&MN/B!82/\+44*B/"$W4QSP,G$:LB5W M+POQ7H 9E!5!`&5@`````P`0$ `````#`!$0``````,`@!#_____0 `',*#? M%?>($KT!0 `(,*#?%?>($KT!"P``@ @@!@``````P ```````$8``````X4` M```````#``* "" &``````# ````````1@`````0A0````````,`!8 (( 8` M`````, ```````!&`````%*%``"W#0``'@`E@ @@!@``````P ```````$8` M````5(4```$````$````."XP``,`)H (( 8``````, ```````!&``````&% M````````"P`O@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````#H4````````#`#" "" & M``````# ````````1@`````1A0````````,`,H (( 8``````, ```````!& M`````!B%````````'@!!@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````-H4```$````! M`````````!X`0H (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#>%```!`````0`````` M```>`$. "" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0````$`````````'@`] ;``$````%````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``'3# ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 21:58:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:57:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Dalles de verre Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:51:19 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec26.135119.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk More detail on Dalle de verre - the glass is cast in thick slabs (1-2" thick) and worked on an anvil with a wedged shaped hammer to chip the edge to produce facets that catch the light, something like the facets of a diamond does, only this is on an architectural size. The somewhat crudely shaped faceted pieces of dalle are then placed in a bed of sand with 1/2 "- 1" space between them. A mixture of cement, fiber glass?, or as I have seen epoxy, is poured in these channels that sometimes have reinforcing steel suspended in them. Once the epoxy is set this very heavy window is lifted out of the sand bed ( Which prevents the epoxy creeping under the glass slabs), any remaining sand washed off, and placed in the building where the light can shine through and create a spectacularly deep and rich show as the light plays in the facets of the glass. (no glass grinders used here!) Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada -----Original Message----- From: Jackie [SMTP:jandj@tvutel.com] Sent: Friday, December 26, 1997 12:27 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dalles de verre Thank you....I need to see and feel it to fully understand it.....It sounds like some sort of mosaic???? Does it have lead??? Ssorry sometimes things aren't as clear to me.... Jackie ---------- > From: Albert Lewis > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Dalles de verre > Date: Friday, December 26, 1997 2:52 PM > > How to pronounce it? "Doll duh ver," with the "ver" sounding like > "where" said beginning with "v." > > A single piece of the chunk glass that is used to create dalles de > verre is called a "dalle." The plural is "dalles de verre." It was > and is a technique by which chunks of glass are fixed into a matrix > of concrete or fiberglass. It was very popular in the U.S. a few > decades ago, but it has a tendency to leak badly, so few new projects > have been built with it in recent years. > > begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A@%`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`@ $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````/0`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0!33510`&=L M87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !```` M$ ```&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`#`!4,`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````2 M````)V=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;2<````"`0LP`0```!4```!33510.D=,05-3 M0$)53D=)+D-/30`````#```Y``````L`0#H!````'@#V7P$````0````9VQA M`' ``0`` M`!0```!213H@1&%L;&5S(&1E('9E !<#L=&\<8!T`\!N3(X5O9IT@,60', 1@ M'I%D;P>01SB'",?-7)U(?%T!9!T"' '0!U :;AZ92X3(!NQ)5)W M) -\@R ",2\4L"(;@+HQ'?!S"K C42\@="!@"RXQ&Z%M*G!!(&UI_G@I MT1G0)O$C4 > `C E,-QF:2\@!< ;XS\H`07 >1P`($DA01L@'4 Q24P'$$U<#)QWRZS&Z$1,"'A`'!N*Z CU?\E4P=S-,,)< N `A I8"6R]QR0 M"> J$74PT GP`0`V5ODQX4]N(U$B0S5R'#(1,?\H9!LA*% ;L#30*% #\!Z0 MOF\'X!Q!). !@!\"=05 CR;Q&Z(ODR\B*"!7'0'[(" 4@&4;( (P(]([E@4` M]PG@+- EP74Z02&A&[<=4_XI)3 `<"A0"7 `P N .5/O'H,<`!NP+T)F0W(L ML2YW^1NB8G4#$"= )<$K$ 20_R8D).,<80.@(- +@"8B`V#^=24`'G-!@200 M+;$PP2FQ]0#0=0M@9\<(49$)H@; MIRIP*&XAT/\;Y G /9$$D 0@.@`?`4="_"$I"J(*A J$&#(!0 \&P1(#@O\@`&XB;E W MPD(1$,!1$R7S?R52)4$`(";B!& OD W@/_MT(2$P1"?1;\(TPQK 5F#[="%1 M"E-S03SQ-^@EDP0@V2W1;B<%0#1Q8W51(:-_!X!N(E$*7[11"EGS6TD^VU[4 M$7!L,X$%0$P'T!Q!YCP'0'UR0'8@D 2@$4#Z+GZ!/GP69:%F3WPE9];_:0]\ M)1J0*:"!H&+_9 =DH+D.0"!0905\<'P62#W!OR+43S!"$"-1( !T4")T@-L: ML!G@=2 @&R$L'? ?\WT;HB(;(3"QH"! (BUSC2 A,"J2"U#_*>,<0904:6B46U3S3-7!P2I)&)E4N_E,J<"! ;X 'X'P6!8%68/L'D5L0 M;R4P1J `$* "" &``````# M````````1@`````WA0```0````$`````````'@!#@ @@!@``````P `````` M`$8`````.(4```$````!`````````!X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ``````P`- '-/TW``"3OH4` ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Dec 26 22:29:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:29:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer From: "Glenn Spicer" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:22:44 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec26.142244.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: DMR74 [SMTP:DMR74@aol.com] Sent: Friday, December 19, 1997 2:04 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) I'm not comfortable scoring away from me, I feel like I do on roller skates, like the wheels are getting away from me and I'm gonna fall flat on my ... palm, of my hand, but ice skates I have control. thought you would like my explanation of the way I do it. deb ---- [Glenn Spicer] It seems to me deb, that if you find that the cutter is "getting away from you" that the most likely cause of this is that you are holding the cutter at an angle to the glass. the cutter should be at a right angle to left and right side of your cutting direction, and at only about 10 degrees back from a right angle in the direction of cutting. If you like I will send you part of an unfinished instruction book on basic techniques that I am writing and improving for my classes. Do you have a fax #? Also cutting towards yourself is usually done when cutting against a straight edge, cutting away (usually in a standing position at a table at about hip height) is done when following a pattern in order to see the wheel as you follow the pattern. I hope that this is of some help. Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@,&`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`@ $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````/0`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0!33510`&=L M87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !```` M$ ```&=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;0`#`!4,`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````2 M````)V=L87-S0&)U;F=I+F-O;2<````"`0LP`0```!4```!33510.D=,05-3 M0$)53D=)+D-/30`````#```Y``````L`0#H!````'@#V7P$````0````9VQA M/$KT!'@!P``$````H```` M4D4Z(%-C;W)E($1I )1!),H )X!L#(!L0:RL`,R!D;R ;*Y$#8&PQD 7 M QH33C,Q$00'8K`#\%H (P-&$Z-37P"&!G:-T%0'D(8#8@"&!L.% S MD_DYX65X"U$21"P!``G"!"!B`-!K_S*$ M4OM8/UE?1,(+@#7C5D?W.O)5Q5%024@4,Y4#\#DQ_Q!P.$$^@@JQ.9$[$ .1 M*'"_2'$$`#8`.% +@$P@ UX'4%D&@#`'$*4$VU M,R!A?3"@=P40-Q0X00=P&W%V]RQ2,3$YTF,H$@>0.C!/@@(S\9DT8P:6]=WT90_D$V<#005<9'`"O0"R $(+M5\?\%L 2!1O)&H37H,C!PTWIU?S7C>T514&DO;C]O1#RQ;_YP M-=)(XTUT.P%OP#@!-@#\;' Z-1`$* "" &```` M``# ````````1@`````WA0```0````$`````````'@!#@ @@!@``````P `` M`````$8`````.(4```$````!`````````!X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ````` *`P`--/TW``#;1X4` ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 07:07:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 07:06:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:02:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec27.5227.0> References: <<1997Dec27.3152.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LElsbury wrote: > > In a message dated 97-12-19 10:34:20 EST, you write: > > << ry to debunk your theory, but I'm right handed & I cut towards > my oh so weary body. >> > > I have no problem with any of my theories being "debunk" (LOL) - As much as I > dislike being wrong I really hate being wrong and not knowing it. I have > another theory - could heighth of body versus work table heighth have > something to do with it? LuAnn > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i've always found that begginners pull. it's not always true, but they start pulling. i think it's easier to pull strenthwise, then it is to push. in order to push, you need to be able to keep a constant pressure, without straying from the path. and keep your cutter strait, all at the same time. when pulling the hand wants to naturally go down. height might make a difference, but if you or the table are the wrong height, the glass may not break; no matter which way you score. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 07:10:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 07:10:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:06:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec27.5643.0> References: <<1997Dec26.142244.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenn Spicer wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: DMR74 [SMTP:DMR74@aol.com] > Sent: Friday, December 19, 1997 2:04 PM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) > > I'm not comfortable scoring away from me, I feel like I do on roller > skates, > like the wheels are getting away from me and I'm gonna fall flat on my ... > palm, of my hand, but ice skates I have control. > thought you would like my explanation of the way I do it. > deb > ---- > > [Glenn Spicer] It seems to me deb, that if you find that the cutter is > "getting away from you" that the most likely cause of this is that you are > holding the cutter at an angle to the glass. the cutter should be at a > right angle to left and right side of your cutting direction, and at only > about 10 degrees back from a right angle in the direction of cutting. If > you like I will send you part of an unfinished instruction book on basic > techniques that I am writing and improving for my classes. Do you have a > fax #? Also cutting towards yourself is usually done when cutting against > a straight edge, cutting away (usually in a standing position at a table at > about hip height) is done when following a pattern in order to see the > wheel as you follow the pattern. I hope that this is of some help. > Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada > > > Name: WINMAIL.DAT > Part 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream) > Encoding: x-uuencode > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it also helps if you use a finger or your other hand as a guide. otherwise the cutter can get away from you. whenever i score by pushing, i always have my pointer finger on the cutter head, to help guide it. sometimes it's accompanied by the bone of my thumb (the second one in). it's for cuttting deeper curves. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 07:27:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 07:27:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:27:20 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec27.152720.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk Based on the height of your table, Mike, mine is much higher (several inches) so I guess it would hinder my viewing as I try to cut away from my body. Since it is not feasible at this time to build a new work table I will continue cutting towards me. All in all this has been working for me but I do appreciate your input and suggestions. I do plan on making a new work table when the weather is more appropriate for outdoor sawing and construction (LOL). Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 07:40:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 07:40:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:36:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec27.53640.0> References: <<1997Dec27.152720.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LElsbury wrote: > > Based on the height of your table, Mike, mine is much higher (several inches) > so I guess it would hinder my viewing as I try to cut away from my body. > Since it is not feasible at this time to build a new work table I will > continue cutting towards me. All in all this has been working for me but I do > appreciate your input and suggestions. I do plan on making a new work table > when the weather is more appropriate for outdoor sawing and construction > (LOL). Lu Ann > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass generally it's always, whatever works. it's acually much slower cutting away from you. and it's a little harder to control if you hit a bubble. but as a trade off, you can get more accuaracy. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 08:17:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:17:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!GlassGuru From: GlassGuru@webtv.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Dalles de verre Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:15:54 -0800 Message-ID: <199712271615.IAA05780@mailtod-121.bryant.webtv.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenn Spicer wrote: "Actually you should wear a dress, just let me know when you plan on being there." Not amusing. Cody Spring is when you feel like whistling even when your shoes are full of slush. -Doug Larson The "GlassGuru" The Ralph Nader of Glass Crusader of truths & commentary. ".....and a really neat guy!" See me at: www.suresite.com/or/g/glassguru ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 09:50:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 09:49:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Youghiogheny Glass Tour Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 00:44:55 -0500 Message-ID: <199712271742.MAA24362@dns.city-net.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk MaryAnn, Thank you so much for the information. I had no idea PCN had shows like that. I will definitely be glued to the TV. Happ NEW YEAR everyone!! Daniela Birkelbach Software Consultant dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany *********************************************************************** "The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?" --David Sarnoff's associates in response to his urgings for investment in the radio in the 1920s. ---------- > From: Mary Ann Dulemba > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Youghiogheny Glass Tour > Date: Friday, December 26, 1997 12:53 PM > > Wanted to pass on this note: > > If any living in Pennsylvania and has access to PCN TV > (http://www.pcntv.com), the PCN Tour this Sunday at 8 p.m. is at > Youghiogheny Glass. I hope you find it interesting! > > Happy Holidays to all. > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 09:59:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 09:58:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: Dalles de verre Date: Sat, 27 Dec 97 12:56:42 -0500 Message-ID: <199712271754.MAA21496@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Glenn Spicer wrote: > >"Actually you should wear a dress, just let me know when you plan on >being there." > >Not amusing. >Cody > Suzanne writes: Well Glenn, you brought Cody out of the woodwork! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 14:42:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:41:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: (Fwd) Re: Cutting glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 23:38:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199712272240.WAA23652@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Myrddn" To: "Toby" , glass@bungi.com Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 13:11:48 +0000 Subject: Re: Cutting glass Reply-to: exotic@lobo.net Priority: normal I have been following the comments about tools for some time, and lurkingly have been bothered by them. Hence I unlurk. A tool is a tool. The skill that one develops in using a tool is more important than the too. I use a glass cutter, running pliers, grozing pliers, and grinder. My skill with each of these determines the quality of my creation. If I consider the quality and art of my work to be the most import aspect of what Ido with glass, then what matters what tool is used? It is my understanding that the phrase "A carpenter is only as good as his tools: is genuinely misunderstood. It comes from the apprenticeship concept of our past, when to become a journeyman carpenter, the apprentice had to mae his own tools - literally. Planes were blocks of wood with the tang of the blade through them. Squares and levers were made from the wood. The apprentice was going to use those tools to make his furniture and cabinets with. They determined whether or not the output was a work of art, something to be appreciated. But the present craftsman, using tools massed produced by machinery, is able to be sure that the cut made with a saw, or the square will be true. Am less a craftsman because I use a grinder to insure that the copper foil goes on an edge that is parallel to the other side? Am a less a craftsperson because the vagarities of the glass leave ripples that will become obvious were I to leave them? If you can cut a line that is exactly what you want, then more power to you. But I feel that I am being put down for not having you skill and your age. I feel I produce quality work, that I am proud to take to my customer and say, :Here, this is my work." I will never be able to spend 40 years learning the craft, because I am almost60 now. If I live to be 100, I will want to do other things by then. So I use the tools that help me, and strive to produce the best I can, and constantly improve. Tools are not the master. On 11 Dec 97, Toby wrote: > Dear Don, > Precisely my point. > I don't reject tools; what I was saying was, that they are no > substitute for genuine hard-learnt skills. One can get obsessive > about "gizmos". They are only tools, but not a substitute to skills. > Learn the skills FIRST, says I, and then you will be able to be > much more discerning of what tools you really require. > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > > > It is just another tool. And a tool > that takes some different skills to operate. > > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Blessed be Myrddn speak your mind, mind your speech ---------------------------------- To subscribe to Paganspace! send mail to paganspace-request@lobo.net with only the word suscribe in the body. To unsubscribe from PaganSpace sned to paganspace@lobo.net with unsuscribe the only word inthe body. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 14:42:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:41:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Where to visit in Paris Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 23:38:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199712272240.WAA23627@pluto.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Elizabeth, I have saved your message with a view of replying in more detail - once the Christmas Fever settles down.... Several pointers to Stained Glass Sites in/around Paris. P.J. Friend very versed about the "Paris Scene" Get on to her off-group..... Have several sources myself, and hope to get back to you before you go. Have made contact with Martin Streng in Holland and am now working out a more detailed stained glass itinerary (sp) for the Holland trip... Watch this space. HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY!!!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (Hopelessly behind Schedule.....) from: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Where to visit in Paris Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:12:22 +0000 Reply-to: glass@bungi.com Hi, all, hope you are all recovering from whatever Christmas or holiday festivities came your way. Our next big event is a fleeting visit to Paris in a couple of weeks. We will be in Paris (France) to visit a lighting exhibition but will have a day and a half free when we would like to visit some modern (post war) stained glass installations if we can find any. Have any of you any suggestions as to what sites or churches to try to visit? Regards Elizabeth & Sam Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 14:58:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:57:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD12F1.263EA560" Subject: RE: Youghiogheny Glass Tour Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:57:34 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec27.155734.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD12F1.263EA560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I live in Pa..What is PNC.. I have the satelite dish.. can I receive this signal. Thanks gloria -----Original Message----- From: Daniela Birkelbach [SMTP:dany@city-net.com] Sent: Saturday, December 27, 1997 3:45 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Youghiogheny Glass Tour MaryAnn, Thank you so much for the information. I had no idea PCN had shows like that. I will definitely be glued to the TV. Happ NEW YEAR everyone!! Daniela Birkelbach Software Consultant dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany *********************************************************************** "The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?" --David Sarnoff's associates in response to his urgings for investment in the radio in the 1920s. ---------- > From: Mary Ann Dulemba > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Youghiogheny Glass Tour > Date: Friday, December 26, 1997 12:53 PM > > Wanted to pass on this note: > > If any living in Pennsylvania and has access to PCN TV > (http://www.pcntv.com), the PCN Tour this Sunday at 8 p.m. is at > Youghiogheny Glass. I hope you find it interesting! > > Happy Holidays to all. > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD12F1.263EA560 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhETAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQAcAAAAUkU6IFlvdWdoaW9naGVueSBHbGFz cyBUb3VyANQJAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcMABsAEQA5ACIABgBtAQEggAMADgAAAM0HDAAbABEAOAAlAAYA bwEBCYABACEAAABCMkVEODZEMEUxN0VEMTExODIxRjQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADrBgEDkAYAHAgAACEA AAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAYDd1 rAETvQEeAHAAAQAAABwAAABSRTogWW91Z2hpb2doZW55IEdsYXNzIFRvdXIAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAA Ab0TAawy0IbttH7hEdGCH0RFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAAAz aG91bmRzQHVzYW9yLm5ldAAAAAMABhBE/FM6AwAHEPEEAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJTElWRUlOUEFX SEFUSVNQTkNJSEFWRVRIRVNBVEVMSVRFRElTSENBTklSRUNFSVZFVEhJU1NJR05BTFRIQU5LU0dM T1JJQS0tLS0tT1JJR0lOQUxNRVNTQUdFLS0tLS1GUk9NAAAAAAIBCRABAAAA/gQAAPoEAADeCAAA TFpGdVLodIUDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4OEDAzM50B9yACpAPjAgBjaArA4HNldDAgBxMCgwBQ oRB2cHJxMhF2fQqA2QjIIDsJbw4wNQKACoHsdWMAUAsDYxISC8UKsQMKhAqASSBsaXZlAiALgCBQ YS4uV08RAAVABAAYkE5DGMAgpxgAEQAYQXRoGFBzGQCmZRggGpAgZAQAaBmRzmMDkRgACXBjZRgy GjBTGTEAkGduB0AuF0pU2REAbmsQwBdTZwkBBzDnF0oK9BggMzYBQBaQFzETA2AakGN0EgQxNiDq LSGyTwUQZwuAB0AF0PMHkBpwZ2UhsxdGIMQXM4MLMSDGaS0xNDQBQHEYIDE4MAFADNAlU2JUIEYD YToMg2IRYEQHAHAIkAtgIEJpcmsFGqBiANBoIFtTTRBUUDpkAHB5QGNRGsB5LW4RQC4FoG1+XRdF JoAGYAIwJucGEHTzCHApAHksJ2Ab4QbQBJAIIDI3LAAxOTk3oCAzOjQ1EXBNKicsVG8m5x6QYQQQ QGIadQ8gaSnSKih1YmqDIPEm51JlOiBZCGAaZxxgbzHgCfB5IEd/LwIuMQhwI18kaiAUFttNQQrA eUFubiwdHyDGeQhgGmBvIG0WACiAvwIQBcAaMguAOIEAwHQyAEZuGaAZs2QgbjgQaWMBACfQUENO OfMbIG/+dwQgGCAoIBdEGjAZADmzvQPwbAMgAQELgBrBbDJgbyxwLuEKUDogdDgQGjJUQlYdC0hh cHAHsEWCVzGgRUFSIGUYQGM2QAIgZSEhF0onf2jpF0RTbwGAdwrAGFAIUPkAgHVsAZACMBdEKQ85 wB9GKRaDRFAZ0AJAcDovnC93R+Ap0ClpL35FEvcgY0RQFzUqSi9LP0xPTV97TYAXRCId0BhQA/AJ cGzPIqE4IQ3RPcBveBnRBCB/OkIAwCIyAmAYUCnhB4By+ylQImF2B0AKUBmgGOA4EPp3CGBsOiAK sEkwF1M4gv8n0AeBIsIaYCrBPlI6QAbg3mQyYBhxCrE5cGNEUArAvD8iF0RGIyGwQgB2OnBnBgEE oEOQZicEIC8Rb59R8RqQBCAYcQlwc3BEId8aETgQHGIIcCIxZwQgOIHnVqULgBhAc3QHgFThGHF9 GjJyOhAyAFwWLPAB0HPvHQsXRCGzIwk+JpQF0DYxvxFwNnAnYERQLFEn0DwAwFZkLvRP4GEFsC4p oT7/X4YuQS7vX5UwdjGvMrtf4L9CABqQZVAmoDpwK+w2LNXxDiA6NTMYkC2lX+Bfhv5XRIE+NAqw BBECIBxEOkDzZ4Fp7klmVBBmERghWoHnGGMJ8ACAeWxSQAMAJ9D/AHA6IFByANAb8AQRPmE6wps+ 0F+GKEb/SABwYwIw5nYvo0lVICksABoycKN/CGEcRDBwb5Ar4FQQBUA4+VNALm0ZoBkxGQBfhmV/ 812gOcNvcBhQN8I9QTog/xrAGGEakFlROXAPIEE1akj7P8JmIEgG8GficFMHQBz232pIae5fSwWx REBiBPQ5gfcbYB3hIuBzLAALUDqQWbGvAMADET5gY1UtCXBxClD/W7Bjzy4xVLI+RxggW7AsAP9G I4EfY49fswcQEPAYMVhRf1JAAxBRQxkBcZ9IAC9XL/+Go0lMIxh/f4CPgZ+Crx2i/4QfhS+GPy+Z iB+JL4o/i08LXgwTgQCa0AAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMIAGcYoBE70BQAAI MIAGcYoBE70BCwABgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMAA4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAEgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGF AAAAAAAACwAGgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADAAeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMACIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgAJgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4ACoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAAB AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAAuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEA AAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAED/ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD12F1.263EA560-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 16:46:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 16:46:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mercury.net!johnnyc From: johnny west To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Suscribe Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:49:28 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec27.114928.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 17:49:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:48:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!GlassGuru From: GlassGuru@webtv.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: Our Books Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:48:52 -0800 Message-ID: <199712280148.RAA11634@mailtod-121.bryant.webtv.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk As each year ends, so does another chapter in the book of our lives. Each persons book contains chapters that detail each of our accomplishments as well as our failures. Though some chapters prove to be worth while reading, others do not. No one is immune from creating their book. The fragility of ones' spirit is evident in the reading's they produce. As I close this years chapter in my book it is important for me and my internal spirit to make sure that this chapter will reflect towards next years book. My epilogue must read that, although I have made many mistakes and also many triumphs, it must also indicate that I am as fragile and as strong as the web of a spider. To those within this group, if any of my words have harmed or misguided you in any way, then it is with head humbly lowered that I apologize. Cody "Keep the foil centered and the iron hot." "If you don't get to know people from other racial, religious or cultural groups, it's very easy to believe ugly things about them and make them frightening in your mind." -Michael Levine The "GlassGuru" The Ralph Nader of Glass Crusader of truths & commentary. ".....and a really neat guy!" See me at: http://www.suresite.com/or/g/glassguru ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 19:11:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:10:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: not necessarily 12/31/?? Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:11:54 -0800 Message-ID: <199712280310.TAA28718@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Some of us close the book and ask forgiveness for known and un-known transgressions at a time other than the end of the Gregorian calendar year. The thoughts are very similar and if we all could abide by our own wishes, we certainly would be a more forgiving specie. (note: not just limited to the glass list!) A good and healthy NEW YEAR whenever you celebrate it or choose to believe it arrives. Very sincerely, Howard weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 19:15:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:13:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly From: patkelly To: "LElsbury@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: how embarrassing this is Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:09:25 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec27.13925.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk LuAnn, Will mail it in the A.M. Pat LElsbury wrote: > No Pat I wasn't able to download the pattern - to this day I don't understand > why I couldn't the last time (I have been able to download and pull up other > things but not always). I REALLY appreciate your time and effort on this and > will gladly compensate you for it. My snail mail is Lu Ann Elsbury - 348 S. > Woodrow Ave. - Indpls., IN 46241. Please include your snail mail address. > Thank you in advance. I hope your Christmas was full of joy and happiness. > LuAnn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 19:38:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 19:36:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Cutting Glass Date: Sat, 27 Dec 97 22:35:00 -0500 Message-ID: <199712280333.WAA09774@uz.ComCAT.COM> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk An interesting thing happened to me today. For the first time in 10 years I tried cutting the glass away from me, as an experiment, and liked it! My cutter apparently liked the change also. It seemed to give the cutter a new lease on life, probably from the wheel going in a different direction after all this time. Could I just be imagining that it seemed to cut better? Anybody else had this experience? Maybe it's good for the cutter to change directions once in a while? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 21:01:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:00:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Cutting Glass Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 23:59:10, -0500 Message-ID: <199712280459.XAA11968@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Suzanne writes: An interesting thing happened to me today. For the first time in 10 years I tried cutting the glass away from me, as an experiment, and liked it! My cutter apparently liked the change also. It seemed to give the cutter a new lease on life, probably from the wheel going in a different direction after all this time. Could I just be imagining that it seemed to cut better? Anybody else had this experience? Maybe it's good for the cutter to change directions once in a while? Bob writes, I have an idea lurking in the back of my mind that changing the direction of the cutter may be good for it in some small way. I use a Toyo pistol grip to cut patterns up and a Toyo pencil grip to cut down against a straight edge. Sometimes I will use the pistol grip to cut down when I can not find my pencil grip. It does a good job at this. BTW I have not changed cutter heads in five or more years and they get a lot of workout. Of course, I do not let them drop off the scored glass into something like a ceramic counter. They also are as dirty as any and I most often cut dry (not recommended) to avoid the problems of oil on work to be fired. I also would value some opinions on rather it makes any difference rather the score is run in the direction of the score or against it. Seems to me that there should be at least a slight difference but I have not detected it. Inquiring minds want to know! Why, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (If God needs my advice then He is not what I had in mind.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 21:03:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:03:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: softcom.net!mthaxton From: "Melissa Thaxton" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:05:50 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec27.13550.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I find what you say sooo true. If I can't "feel" the score in the glass then I'm lost. But on the other hand I sometimes have thought it's a gift of God that I have the ability to transform sheets of glass into Works of art, I think everyone at bungi has that little spark of life that can create another dimension with there work. Melissa -----Original Message----- From: BOB DUCHESNEAU To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) >Dani Greer wrote; >Hi Bob- > >I tried your eye trick and my >thumb doesn't stay on target = >with either eye. Does that mean >I'm blind? Also, when I line up >my thumb with the target, I see >two thumbs. Of course, that could >be because it's midnight and we're >still at the shop. Michael's finishing >up a job that has to be installed >tomorrow A.M. I'll try again tomorrow >because this has me somewhat >intrigued. > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer > >Bob writes, >No, I do not think you are blind. Perhaps if you try not to stare >hard the thumb trick will work. I tried Linda Campbell's way of >making a diamond with the thumbs and forefingers. Seems to be a >superior method of determining eye dominance. > >The dominant eye looks straight at the target and the other eye looks >at an angle. This gives us depth perception. I assume that people >with wide spaced eyes have better depth perception. As in shooting, >you should get better results if you use your dominant eye to >determine where the cutter is in reference to the pattern. > >It is not surprising that SG attracts a high percentage of left >handers. They seem to be creative above the average. A web search >will reveal a surprising list of left handers. There must be >something to the left/right brain thing. To confuse the issue more I >will let out the fact that President Clinton is left handed but I >don't think he does SG. > >Still left on, Bob > >____ >Bob Duchesneau (If God needs my advice then He is not what I had in >mind.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, >Escondido, CA, 92026,USA >Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 21:20:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:19:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: softcom.net!mthaxton From: "Melissa Thaxton" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Cutting Glass Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:11:06 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec27.13116.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have always cut away from my body. I also use my left hand to guide the cutter, it gives me more control in my cuts. When I watch people who cut towards themselves it seems backwards to me. -----Original Message----- From: suzanne albright To: glass bungi line Date: Saturday, December 27, 1997 8:46 PM Subject: Cutting Glass >An interesting thing happened to me today. > >For the first time in 10 years I tried cutting the glass away from me, as >an experiment, and liked it! > >My cutter apparently liked the change also. It seemed to give the cutter >a new lease on life, probably from the wheel going in a different >direction after all this time. Could I just be imagining that it seemed >to cut better? Anybody else had this experience? Maybe it's good for the >cutter to change directions once in a while? > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Dec 27 23:14:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 23:14:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!Weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: scoring Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 23:15:17 -0800 Message-ID: <199712280713.XAA08310@mail1.teleport.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk A re-hash............I find it easier to "see" where I am going when I score away from myself and to follow the pattern line. When cutting against a straight edge, cut towards my self. I do not oil my cutters (toyos) either, but about once every few days spray a little wd40 on the wheel. I get years out of a cutting head as well. I cut on 3/8 thick PLATE glass, and it has a lot of "pock" marks ( I cut a lot of real small pieces) from the cutter going off the glass, and just being handled roughly. I do not feel comfortable with a "pistol grip cutter, but I can use one if I have too. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 07:25:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 07:23:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Youghiogheny Glass Tour Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 22:19:31 -0500 Message-ID: <199712281515.KAA15353@dns.city-net.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk PCN stands for Pennsylvania CAble Network. If you go to their homepage there are links to where you can look for channels that carry PCN in your area. I'm not sure how that applies to satellite systems. http://www.pcntv.com Happy viewing! Dany Daniela Birkelbach Software Consultant dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany *********************************************************************** "The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?" --David Sarnoff's associates in response to his urgings for investment in the radio in the 1920s. ---------- > From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> > To: 'glass@bungi.com' > Subject: RE: Youghiogheny Glass Tour > Date: Saturday, December 27, 1997 2:57 PM > > > > I live in Pa..What is PNC.. I have the satelite dish.. can I receive this signal. > > Thanks > gloria > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniela Birkelbach [SMTP:dany@city-net.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 1997 3:45 AM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Youghiogheny Glass Tour > > MaryAnn, > > Thank you so much for the information. I had no idea PCN had shows like > that. I will definitely be glued to the TV. > > Happ NEW YEAR everyone!! > > Daniela Birkelbach > Software Consultant > dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany > *********************************************************************** > "The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay > for a message sent to nobody in particular?" > --David Sarnoff's associates in response to his urgings for > investment in the radio in the 1920s. > > > ---------- > > From: Mary Ann Dulemba > > To: glass@bungi.com > > Subject: Youghiogheny Glass Tour > > Date: Friday, December 26, 1997 12:53 PM > > > > Wanted to pass on this note: > > > > If any living in Pennsylvania and has access to PCN TV > > (http://www.pcntv.com), the PCN Tour this Sunday at 8 p.m. is at > > Youghiogheny Glass. I hope you find it interesting! > > > > Happy Holidays to all. > > > > > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 09:47:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 09:46:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: lobo.net!exotic From: "Myrddn" To: "M. Savad" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:46:45 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On 27 Dec 97, M. Savad wrote: > > i've always found that begginners pull. it's not always true, but they > start pulling. i think it's easier to pull strenthwise, then it is to > push. in order to push, you need to be able to keep a constant pressure, > without straying from the path. and keep your cutter strait, all at the > same time. When you say straight,how to you mean it. I try to keep the cutter perpendicular as to right and left, but (I use a Toyo with a brass handle)lean the cutter back toward me, to get a better grip on the cutter, and to apply more pressure to the glass with less work from me. The Toyo head is bevelled on one sire to make it appear that that it how it was designed, and I try to make the larger flat on the head parallel to the glass. I push BTW in order so see where I am going. Blessed be Myrddn speak your mind, mind your speech ---------------------------------- To subscribe to Paganspace! send mail to paganspace-request@lobo.net with only the word suscribe in the body. To unsubscribe from PaganSpace sned to paganspace@lobo.net with unsuscribe the only word inthe body. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 10:57:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:56:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Dalles de verre Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 18:18:27 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec28.181827.0> References: <<1997Dec26.181428.0@?>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <1997Dec26.181428.0@?>, Lydia writes > >>WV is preparing to make a glass floor for the county (Putnam?) >>courthouse. You will be albe to see through to the lower level. He said >>it is to be made of thick slabs of glass. I can only guess that they >>will be using >>dalles de verre, as I have read that they make dalles. >> >>Regardless, you can bet that I'm going to make a trip to the courthouse >>to see it when it is finished. >> >>Happy New Year! >> >>Kathy > >Oh My!!! that sounds wonderful!!! but I wouldn't wear a dress when you go >visit .. hehehehehhe > No problem, the vision isn't that clear=AC! > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --=20 Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 10:57:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:57:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dalles de verre Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 18:14:55 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec28.181455.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message , Albert Lewis writes >How to pronounce it? "Doll duh ver," with the "ver" sounding like >"where" said beginning with "v." > >A single piece of the chunk glass that is used to create dalles de >verre is called a "dalle." The plural is "dalles de verre." It was >and is a technique by which chunks of glass are fixed into a matrix >of concrete or fiberglass. It was very popular in the U.S. a few >decades ago, but it has a tendency to leak badly, so few new projects >have been built with it in recent years. > Yes, the medium has taken a bashing. It was used in a number of situations which were unsuitable, such as roofs. Used in sheltered locations, they provide a brilliance of light which is out of proportion to the area of glass. There are now materials on the market to hold the glass which have COEs (Coefficients of Expanson) much closer to that of glass and so should enable more lasting objects to be constructed. South Wales (UK) has a number of windows which are standing up well to weathering after about 30 years. The glass (about an inch thick) should be fractured (to give the refraction of the light which is a charactistic of the medium) on one side only. Not like making an arrowhead or axe of flint, although the glass fractures just like flint (a glasseous material). People here recommend that the glass make up only about 30 per cent of the area. But you would never believe so little glass was involved when you look at the window from inside! -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 11:03:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 11:02:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: CorelDraw Magazine Article Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 17:34:45 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec28.173445.0> References: <<1997Dec22.181931.0@?>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <1997Dec22.181931.0@?>, Dawn writes >Hi Steve, > I'm not the Steve in question. Just someone who has some concern about copyright. Unless you have the permission of the magazine, you *may not* make copies for others!!!!!!!! If they decide to take you to court, this message will get you convicted. DON'T DO IT! >I'm sorry that I have to reply to the entire group, but I don't have your= > e-mail address. > >Pat is going to mail me the article on Corel Draw, but if you want to sca= >n both articles and send them to me I'll test out how it comes through. = > That might help help Pat out since she only has so many copies to mail = >out. > >My e-mail address is: dawnm@fidnet.com > >Thanks! > >Dawn > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 11:05:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 11:05:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Flash glass Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 17:39:10 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Dec28.173910.0> References: <<1997Dec23.0448.0@?>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In message <1997Dec23.0448.0@?>, Dawn writes >Teri, > >It also can be one color on top of another color. One of the colors will= > make up the majority of the width of the glass. You should cut on the = >side with the "thickest" color. >Dawn > Why Dawn? I always cut on the flashed side. I have had one disaster on a curved sheet with a thckness variation of 2mm to 5mm, but no problems otherwise. What is it that I have escaped? Steve >> Teri, >> Flashed glass is a sheet of clear glass with a film of color >> "flashed" to >> the top. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 12:31:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 12:31:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!madglass From: Mary Ann Dulemba To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Youghiogheny Glass Tour Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 15:27:02 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971228152702.007c4100@usaor.net> References: <<1997Dec27.155734.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk PCN is Pennsylvania Cable Network. I am sorry - I have no idea what their satellite signal is. At 05:57 PM 12/27/97 -0200, you wrote: > >------ =_NextPart_000_01BD12F1.263EA560 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > >I live in Pa..What is PNC.. I have the satelite dish.. can I receive this signal. > >Thanks >gloria > >-----Original Message----- >From: Daniela Birkelbach [SMTP:dany@city-net.com] >Sent: Saturday, December 27, 1997 3:45 AM >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Re: Youghiogheny Glass Tour > >MaryAnn, > >Thank you so much for the information. I had no idea PCN had shows like >that. I will definitely be glued to the TV. > >Happ NEW YEAR everyone!! > >Daniela Birkelbach >Software Consultant >dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany >*********************************************************************** >"The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay >for a message sent to nobody in particular?" > --David Sarnoff's associates in response to his urgings for > investment in the radio in the 1920s. > > >---------- >> From: Mary Ann Dulemba >> To: glass@bungi.com >> Subject: Youghiogheny Glass Tour >> Date: Friday, December 26, 1997 12:53 PM >> >> Wanted to pass on this note: >> >> If any living in Pennsylvania and has access to PCN TV >> (http://www.pcntv.com), the PCN Tour this Sunday at 8 p.m. is at >> Youghiogheny Glass. I hope you find it interesting! >> >> Happy Holidays to all. >> >> >> >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >------ =_NextPart_000_01BD12F1.263EA560 >Content-Type: application/ms-tnef >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > >eJ8+IhETAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy >b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL >AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv >bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA >AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp >LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB >AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u >AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA >AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQAcAAAAUkU6IFlvdWdoaW9naGVueSBHbGFz >cyBUb3VyANQJAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcMABsAEQA5ACIABgBtAQEggAMADgAAAM0HDAAbABEAOAAlAAYA >bwEBCYABACEAAABCMkVEODZEMEUxN0VEMTExODIxRjQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADrBgEDkAYAHAgAACEA >AAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAYDd1 >rAETvQEeAHAAAQAAABwAAABSRTogWW91Z2hpb2doZW55IEdsYXNzIFRvdXIAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAA >Ab0TAawy0IbttH7hEdGCH0RFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAAAz >aG91bmRzQHVzYW9yLm5ldAAAAAMABhBE/FM6AwAHEPEEAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJTElWRUlOUEFX >SEFUSVNQTkNJSEFWRVRIRVNBVEVMSVRFRElTSENBTklSRUNFSVZFVEhJU1NJR05BTFRIQU5LU0dM >T1JJQS0tLS0tT1JJR0lOQUxNRVNTQUdFLS0tLS1GUk9NAAAAAAIBCRABAAAA/gQAAPoEAADeCAAA >TFpGdVLodIUDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4OEDAzM50B9yACpAPjAgBjaArA4HNldDAgBxMCgwBQ >oRB2cHJxMhF2fQqA2QjIIDsJbw4wNQKACoHsdWMAUAsDYxISC8UKsQMKhAqASSBsaXZlAiALgCBQ >YS4uV08RAAVABAAYkE5DGMAgpxgAEQAYQXRoGFBzGQCmZRggGpAgZAQAaBmRzmMDkRgACXBjZRgy >GjBTGTEAkGduB0AuF0pU2REAbmsQwBdTZwkBBzDnF0oK9BggMzYBQBaQFzETA2AakGN0EgQxNiDq >LSGyTwUQZwuAB0AF0PMHkBpwZ2UhsxdGIMQXM4MLMSDGaS0xNDQBQHEYIDE4MAFADNAlU2JUIEYD >YToMg2IRYEQHAHAIkAtgIEJpcmsFGqBiANBoIFtTTRBUUDpkAHB5QGNRGsB5LW4RQC4FoG1+XRdF >JoAGYAIwJucGEHTzCHApAHksJ2Ab4QbQBJAIIDI3LAAxOTk3oCAzOjQ1EXBNKicsVG8m5x6QYQQQ >QGIadQ8gaSnSKih1YmqDIPEm51JlOiBZCGAaZxxgbzHgCfB5IEd/LwIuMQhwI18kaiAUFttNQQrA >eUFubiwdHyDGeQhgGmBvIG0WACiAvwIQBcAaMguAOIEAwHQyAEZuGaAZs2QgbjgQaWMBACfQUENO >OfMbIG/+dwQgGCAoIBdEGjAZADmzvQPwbAMgAQELgBrBbDJgbyxwLuEKUDogdDgQGjJUQlYdC0hh >cHAHsEWCVzGgRUFSIGUYQGM2QAIgZSEhF0onf2jpF0RTbwGAdwrAGFAIUPkAgHVsAZACMBdEKQ85 >wB9GKRaDRFAZ0AJAcDovnC93R+Ap0ClpL35FEvcgY0RQFzUqSi9LP0xPTV97TYAXRCId0BhQA/AJ >cGzPIqE4IQ3RPcBveBnRBCB/OkIAwCIyAmAYUCnhB4By+ylQImF2B0AKUBmgGOA4EPp3CGBsOiAK >sEkwF1M4gv8n0AeBIsIaYCrBPlI6QAbg3mQyYBhxCrE5cGNEUArAvD8iF0RGIyGwQgB2OnBnBgEE >oEOQZicEIC8Rb59R8RqQBCAYcQlwc3BEId8aETgQHGIIcCIxZwQgOIHnVqULgBhAc3QHgFThGHF9 >GjJyOhAyAFwWLPAB0HPvHQsXRCGzIwk+JpQF0DYxvxFwNnAnYERQLFEn0DwAwFZkLvRP4GEFsC4p >oT7/X4YuQS7vX5UwdjGvMrtf4L9CABqQZVAmoDpwK+w2LNXxDiA6NTMYkC2lX+Bfhv5XRIE+NAqw >BBECIBxEOkDzZ4Fp7klmVBBmERghWoHnGGMJ8ACAeWxSQAMAJ9D/AHA6IFByANAb8AQRPmE6wps+ >0F+GKEb/SABwYwIw5nYvo0lVICksABoycKN/CGEcRDBwb5Ar4FQQBUA4+VNALm0ZoBkxGQBfhmV/ >812gOcNvcBhQN8I9QTog/xrAGGEakFlROXAPIEE1akj7P8JmIEgG8GficFMHQBz232pIae5fSwWx >REBiBPQ5gfcbYB3hIuBzLAALUDqQWbGvAMADET5gY1UtCXBxClD/W7Bjzy4xVLI+RxggW7AsAP9G >I4EfY49fswcQEPAYMVhRf1JAAxBRQxkBcZ9IAC9XL/+Go0lMIxh/f4CPgZ+Crx2i/4QfhS+GPy+Z >iB+JL4o/i08LXgwTgQCa0AAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMIAGcYoBE70BQAAI >MIAGcYoBE70BCwABgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA >AAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMAA4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAEgAggBgAA >AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGF >AAAAAAAACwAGgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADAAeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA >RgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMACIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgAJgAggBgAAAAAA >wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4ACoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAAB >AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAAuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEA >AAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAED/ > >------ =_NextPart_000_01BD12F1.263EA560-- > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 12:37:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 12:37:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: oxford.net!tmr From: Teresa Ross To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Subject: Re: SMTP import error #-5 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 97 00:14:18 PST Message-ID: <1997Dec25.81418.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am receiving this message over and over. How can it be stopped? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 12:49:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 12:48:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: changing cutter direction Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 12:47:23 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec28.44723.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I always push my cutter, but I never hold it the same way. I don't know what direction the wheel is going from use to use. So except for the pistol grip cutter, Don't the rest of you do the same thing? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 12:55:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 12:55:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LElsbury From: LElsbury To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: SMTP import error #-5 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 15:54:14 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec28.205414.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk I went to "Mail Center" on AOL and followed the instructions for blocking mail. Albert Lewis had a post a few days ago with better instructions. Glenna wrote that the person had been eliminated from posting. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 12:56:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 12:56:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting Glass Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 15:51:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec28.105157.0> References: <<199712280333.WAA09774@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk suzanne albright wrote: > > An interesting thing happened to me today. > > For the first time in 10 years I tried cutting the glass away from me, as > an experiment, and liked it! > > My cutter apparently liked the change also. It seemed to give the cutter > a new lease on life, probably from the wheel going in a different > direction after all this time. Could I just be imagining that it seemed > to cut better? Anybody else had this experience? Maybe it's good for the > cutter to change directions once in a while? > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass for starters, your using a slightly different mucsle in your arm/wrist. acually your using more of your arm and not as much as your wrist. i guess it's easier to keep it locked in place. you can ge ta more controlled cut with this technique. however you should always have a second hand controlling the head. if you ever hit a bubble, god only knows where your cutter is going to go. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 17:00:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 16:59:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Dalles de verre Date: Sun, 28 Dec 97 19:55:59 EST Message-ID: <971228.195836.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<1997Dec26.141820.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The chapel in the medical center where I work has a dalles de verre window. it was originally an exterior window, although it's possible there was double glazing (it was a few stories above the ground). After a couple of years, the chapel was relocated and the window became an interior window. Also our cafeteria has stained glass panels in the movable dividers. Dorothy K -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 19:25:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 19:24:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Walls of Light video Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:23:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec28.17233.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk A while back someone posted information about this video and I forwarded the information to my local library so they could order it. I just got a letter from them telling me they couldn't locate a source for it. Does anyone = know who one might contact to buy this video? Any help is appreciated. Thank you! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 19:32:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 19:32:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: dalles de verre Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:23:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec28.172311.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On my bookshelf is a book written by a local colleague of ours entitled "Techniques of Stained Glass - Leaded, Faceted, or Laminated Glass" by = Vincent O'Brien. It's a pretty decent book and the section on faceted glass deals with dalle de verre or slab glass as we call it. I think it's still available through Whitehouse Books. It also has some good chapters on installing glass, reinforcing panels, and = shipping glass. And speaking of books, for all the aspiring artists out there, Barnes & Noble is selling "A History of Art" for a mere $14.99!! It has almost one thousand pages, 1300 illustrations (over 800 in fairly respectable color), includes everything from Paleolithic to Modern American Art with unusual chapters such as Viking and Australian Art included. Not an in-depth study of anything, needless to say, but a terrific overview for anyone even remotely interested in fine art. A few nice stained glass photos in the Gothic chapter. = Happy New Year to everyone! Back to work!! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios 603 W. Colorado Ave. Colorado Springs, CO 80905 http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Dec 28 22:28:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:27:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Walls of Light video Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 01:27:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec28.202726.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani, I know that Delphi in Lansing Michigan is selling it. I hope this helps. http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass/index2.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 29 02:38:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 02:37:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Walls of Light video Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 05:45:16 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > a source for it. Does anyone = > > know who one might contact to > buy this video? It's produced in Canada, but available in the US exclusively through CKE Publications U.S.A. 2840 Black Lake Blvd., Suite E Olympia WA 98512 - 6197 Phone: ( 360 ) 352 - 4427 Fax: (360) 943-3978 Email: ckepubs@aol.com Website: http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/cke/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 29 08:26:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 08:25:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "Mike Figgy" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Walls of Light video Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:23:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec29.62351.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The video is being distributed throughout the U.S. by CKE Publications, so any store that carries books from this publisher should have access to geting the video. Well worth it! -----Original Message----- From: Michael J. Greer To: All Date: December 28, 1997 10:39 PM Subject: Walls of Light video >A while back someone posted >information about this video and >I forwarded the information to my >local library so they could order >it. I just got a letter from them >telling me they couldn't locate >a source for it. Does anyone = > >know who one might contact to >buy this video? Any help is >appreciated. Thank you! > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 29 11:45:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 11:44:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Need beveling quote Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:42:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec29.94221.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I know we have some = professional bevelers in bungi - could any of you quote me an estimated price to bevel ? I have 20 different pieces, approx. 375 inches total, 1/2 inch bevel on 1/4 inch clear to be used in a leaded glass window. Price per inch in this quantity would be = helpful. Also terms and = turnaround time. Please e-mail me direct at: GreerStudios@compuserve.com Thanks! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 29 12:08:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:08:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Dalles de verre Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:07:57 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec29.20757.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk don't wear a dress when you go Kathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 29 12:11:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:11:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Eliminating SMPT error Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 13:11:09 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1.5.4.16.19971225171108.27578df6@sol.racsa.co.cr>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk M.-J. wrote: > If you have Eudora Pro you can use Filters under Tools to filter out > unwanted messages -- Eudora Light, there are no filters. The problem seems > to have subsided in any case! you can download the newest version of eudora lite from http://www.eudora.com, which does have filters. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 29 12:29:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:28:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:26:42 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec29.202642.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-27 10:11:52 EST, you write: > > [Glenn Spicer] It seems to me deb, that if you find that the cutter is > > "getting away from you" that the most likely cause of this is that you are > > holding the cutter at an angle to the glass. the cutter should be at a > > right angle to left and right side of your cutting direction, and at only > > about 10 degrees back from a right angle in the direction of cutting. If > > you like I will send you part of an unfinished instruction book on basic > > techniques that I am writing and improving for my classes. Do you have a > > fax #? Also cutting towards yourself is usually done when cutting > against > > a straight edge, cutting away (usually in a standing position at a table > at > > about hip height) is done when following a pattern in order to see the > > wheel as you follow the pattern. I hope that this is of some help. > > Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada > > Glenn I lost the original message so I couldn't reply to you,( we made a 5 day trip to Orlando including travel time) I always stand when I am cutting, glass is about hip height maybe an inch or two higher. I notice too that I use my middle finger to balance around curves kinda pointing down and out almost touching glass. I do have a fax will give it to you off bungi deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 29 13:30:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 13:29:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:28:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712292128.QAA29474@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk deb, I still want to hear how you solder your work with those coat hangers and acetelye (sp?). my best, pj (who knows that there is a new year out there somewhere) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Dec 29 15:39:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:38:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD1489.4384E5A0" Subject: RE: Youghiogheny Glass Tour Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:36:41 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec29.163641.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD1489.4384E5A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I guess I can not receive this this signal, but I have been to = Youghigheny and I love the store.. great price on copper wire, running = pliers, and of course the glass, but I like Yough glass... -----Original Message----- From: Mary Ann Dulemba [SMTP:madglass@usaor.net] Sent: Sunday, December 28, 1997 6:27 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Youghiogheny Glass Tour PCN is Pennsylvania Cable Network. I am sorry - I have no idea what = their satellite signal is. At 05:57 PM 12/27/97 -0200, you wrote: > >------ =3D_NextPart_000_01BD12F1.263EA560 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > >I live in Pa..What is PNC.. I have the satelite dish.. can I receive = this signal. > >Thanks >gloria > >-----Original Message----- >From: Daniela Birkelbach [SMTP:dany@city-net.com] >Sent: Saturday, December 27, 1997 3:45 AM >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Re: Youghiogheny Glass Tour > >MaryAnn, > >Thank you so much for the information. I had no idea PCN had shows = like >that. I will definitely be glued to the TV. > >Happ NEW YEAR everyone!! > >Daniela Birkelbach >Software Consultant >dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany >*********************************************************************** >"The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would = pay >for a message sent to nobody in particular?" > --David Sarnoff's associates in response to his urgings for > investment in the radio in the 1920s. > > >---------- >> From: Mary Ann Dulemba >> To: glass@bungi.com >> Subject: Youghiogheny Glass Tour >> Date: Friday, December 26, 1997 12:53 PM >>=20 >> Wanted to pass on this note: >>=20 >> If any living in Pennsylvania and has access to PCN TV >> (http://www.pcntv.com), the PCN Tour this Sunday at 8 p.m. is at >> Youghiogheny Glass. 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owner-glass Mon Dec 29 15:39:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:38:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD1489.3FD2DA20" Subject: RE: Cutting Glass Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:33:35 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec29.163335.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD1489.3FD2DA20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I always cut away from me.. when I tried cutting to me, always ran the = cutter off the glass.. I seem I can also turn when cutting away from = me.. the break is pretty good.. Hope this helps. Gloria -----Original Message----- From: M. Savad [SMTP:morn@nac.net] Sent: Sunday, December 28, 1997 6:52 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cutting Glass suzanne albright wrote: >=20 > An interesting thing happened to me today. >=20 > For the first time in 10 years I tried cutting the glass away from me, = as > an experiment, and liked it! >=20 > My cutter apparently liked the change also. It seemed to give the = cutter > a new lease on life, probably from the wheel going in a different > direction after all this time. Could I just be imagining that it = seemed > to cut better? Anybody else had this experience? Maybe it's good for = the > cutter to change directions once in a while? >=20 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass for starters, your using a slightly different mucsle in your arm/wrist. acually your using more of your arm and not as much as your wrist. i guess it's easier to keep it locked in place. you can ge ta more controlled cut with this technique. however you should always have a second hand controlling the head. if you ever hit a bubble, god only knows where your cutter is going to go. ---Mike Savad --=20 Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: Over 40 new stained glass links, Tips: How To Set Up A Shop, and My adventures with the Aliens. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at 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=_NextPart_000_01BD1489.3FD2DA20-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 01:18:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:17:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: seaknet.alaska.edu!kayak9 From: Kay & Chuck Larson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Help please Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:22:09 -0800 Message-ID: <34A8BD41.69CE@seaknet.alaska.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Restoration help. Need suggestions for restoration of stained glass window in mediteranian climate. Existing window is in a black iron frame with lead came. Lead came is sagging. Would like to replace black iron frame with stainless steel and lead came with a more durable came. Any suggestions, hints, warnings or precautions would be appreciated. Thanks. Chuck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 03:03:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 03:03:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: restoration Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 06:10:51 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Restoration help. Need suggestions for restoration of stained glass > window in mediteranian climate. Existing window is in a black iron > frame with lead came. Lead came is sagging. Chuck, all lead will eventually fail. It's the nature of the material. But you should expect a releaded window to remain in pretty good shape for more than 100 years ... and it will, if the lead is properly manufactured. Get Julie L. Sloan's "Conservation of Stained Glass in America" from Art in Architecture Press. It's $24.95 and has gotten rave reviews here on bungi.com Postage to your part of the world is $9. additional. Art in Architecture Press, Inc. 54 Cherry Street, PO Box 1809 North Adams MA 01247 - Phone: (413) 663-5512 Fax: (413) 663-7167 Email: info@aiap.com Website: http://www.aiap.com/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 05:47:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 05:47:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:44:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971230074805.1adf6e28@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Bungians, I decided to try out a project with lead came... and I can't get commercial putty... cement whatever here. On reading the back archives from bungi on the subject, there are recipes which include plaster of paris, calcium carbonate, and boiled linseed oil. I have plaster of paris, and I have finely ground limestone (which I am told it is calcium cabonate) for my garden, and my mother has linseed oil as a medium for her oil painting (not boiled, can I boil it?). Can I use these ingredients? Can I use acrylic paint to darken it? Would the black powder they use to color cement work? I assume that it would look nicer dark, rather than to have all that white shining up through the glass. Someone told me (I haven't checked it may be an evil rumor) that no one who works in came here cements it... that that is only for northern climes... sounds like hogwash to me as I gather that part of the reason is for reinforcing... and part for weatherproofing... and it rains and blows here too!! Anyone have any opinions out there??? Thanks Meg \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde, Puntarenas COSTA RICA phone 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 07:12:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:11:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:19:03 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I decided to try out a project with lead came... and I can't get > commercial putty... cement whatever here. On reading the back archives from > bungi on the subject, there are recipes which include plaster of paris, > calcium carbonate, and boiled linseed oil. Richard, whatever ingredients you end up using (and I'm sure you're going to get a number of recipes here), don't use Plaster of Paris ever. Its use is a fairly recent and incorrect addition to putty formulations and it does great harm to the window, not to mention it makes it nearly impossible to repair or restore later on. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 08:20:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:19:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Sore Fingertips & Plant Buddies Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 11:16:32 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec30.161632.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-19 23:21:31 EST, you write: > deb, > Tell me I didn't read this right. > You are telling me that your husband uses a hanger for solder...as in > place of oh say...50/50 or 60/40 solder. > And if this is true.....what is he melting that steel with???? > > my best, > pj > Sorry PJ I didn't look back at my letters but maybe I wasn't clear, no he doesnt' do stained glass at all, in a pinch he has used a hanger when using his acetylne tanks. OK so I call everything soldering LOL deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 08:38:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:35:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ictc.com!bankers From: "The Banker's House" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:37:19 -0600 Message-ID: <199712301641.KAA07831@ns.ictc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Meg- I recently decided to work in lead came as well. I tried several "recipes" with items I have around the house, and although certain aspects of it worked, I was dissatisfied with the final results. I would take Albert's advice about no Plaster-of-Paris.... this was MY first mistake! What follows is the recipe given to me by a trusted friend, and it was like night and day, once I got the mixture right. Cement for Lead Came In Can #1 combine 2 measures of turpentine with 1 measure of boiled linseed oil. (Here you MUST use (boiled) linseed oil.... unboiled will not set up right, I am unsure as to what the boiling point of the oil is, so I don't know if you can boil your own... It is available at stores that sell paint, and REAL turpentine....not the environmentally friendly substitute Turp-a-tine or Turp-ta-tine, which are substantially more expensive anyway.) In Can #2 combine Whiting and lampblack depending on the size of your project.... (both cans will keep well if covered, so don't worry about having a little extra. I have used other colorant mediums.... a liquid stove black worked, although I had to add more dry ingredients.... it achieved a grey color that was acceptable. I think that acrylic may work.... never tried it, and a cement colorant may as well.... I would be careful of grit that may scratch the glass.) Anyway...In Container #3 or a mixing bowl, combine dry ingredients with enough wet ingredients to have a frosting like consistency. Then apply to panel. If you are going to vary the recipe in anyway.... I would recommend trying it on a sample piece with just clear window glass first.... a few lead lines will do, it will also help you get the technique of application down pat before your larger project. Remember to save any 'scrubber' whiting that is not clumped.... as it can be used in your next batch of cement. Hope this is helpful, and hope there are other suggestions for you.... I am sure that if I have said anything wrong, a correction will be forthcoming *wink*. Dale ---------- > From: Richard LaVal > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Gatewayed mail message > Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 7:44 AM > > Dear Bungians, > I decided to try out a project with lead came... and I can't get > commercial putty... cement whatever here. On reading the back archives from > bungi on the subject, there are recipes which include plaster of paris, > calcium carbonate, and boiled linseed oil. I have plaster of paris, and I > have finely ground limestone (which I am told it is calcium cabonate) for my > garden, and my mother has linseed oil as a medium for her oil painting (not > boiled, can I boil it?). Can I use these ingredients? Can I use acrylic > paint to darken it? Would the black powder they use to color cement work? > I assume that it would look nicer dark, rather than to have all that white > shining up through the glass. > Someone told me (I haven't checked it may be an evil rumor) that no > one who works in came here cements it... that that is only for northern > climes... sounds like hogwash to me as I gather that part of the reason is > for reinforcing... and part for weatherproofing... and it rains and blows > here too!! Anyone have any opinions out there??? Thanks Meg > \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ > Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace > apdo. 24-5655 > Monteverde, Puntarenas > COSTA RICA > phone 645 5052 > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 09:08:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 09:07:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: DMR74 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:04:10 EST Message-ID: <1997Dec30.17410.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-12-29 16:32:23 EST, you write: > deb, > > I still want to hear how you solder your work with those coat hangers and > acetelye (sp?). > > my best, > pj (who knows that there is a new year out there somewhere) > PJ PJ PJ no no no I or anyone else here don't use the hangers on glass. HMMM if I could only figure out how this got started. The idea was to use the coat hanger on the stick part of the plant buddy I think, and then just make the solder stick to it to attach the small glass form to it. Not to use the hanger for solder but to clean and tin the coat hanger. I think we all went off in different directions on this one. I'm just as mixed up as the rest of you. And I'm not saying to use the acetylne tanks to heat the solder either or we might have lead soup. LOL deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 10:43:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:38:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:38:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712301838.NAA12655@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk deb wrote, >PJ PJ PJ no no no I or anyone else here don't use the hangers on glass. >HMMM if I could only figure out how this got started. >> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Never mind!! my best, pj (who now knows that giving up coffee was a really bad idea!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 11:42:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 11:42:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 14:41:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec30.94134.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert- I think you mean "portland cement" as being the really damaging culprit in cement mixtures, although I know the plaster of Paris allegedly causes lime bloom. We have yet to experience problems with either in our very dry Colorado climate, but who am I to argue with the experts! ;-) Further, Meg asked about boiled = linseed oil... which is actually not boiled... no you should buy it that way, not try to boil your own. We have yet to develop a cement formula which pleases us as well as the old formula with portland, the biggest problem being set-up time (it takes days for the cement to firm up!), but the addition of Japan drier helps, Meg, and I would strongly suggest it considering the humidity. We have a very dry climate and still it takes a ghastly amount of = time. Just from a practitioner's (and practical) point of view! = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & STudios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 13:38:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:37:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:44:39 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I think you mean "portland cement" > as being the really damaging culprit > in cement mixtures Oh, yeah. Duh. Going too fast, too much on the old plate and too little between the ears. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 13:38:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:37:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:44:39 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Albert's advice about no Plaster-of-Paris.... this was MY first mistake! My mistake. Sorry. Was thinking of Portland Cement. Well, geez. It starts with "P" doesn't it? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 14:54:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 14:52:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:50:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec30.125049.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk "Going too fast, too much on the plate" - Boy, can we relate, Albert!! I truly cannot remember the last time I was bored.... and think what a blessing that is, really. Wishing everyone great things in the new year! Oh, and thanks to everyone for the information sent about the "Walls of Light' video. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 15:43:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:43:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:42:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199712302342.SAA25064@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk dani wrote, >"Going too fast, too much on the >plate" - Boy, can we relate, Albert!! >I truly cannot remember the last >time I was bored.... and think what >a blessing that is, really. Bored??/ I wanna be bored!! At least for five minutes so I can remember what it felt like. I would also like one day to get more than 6 hours sleep and be able to have one conversation without call waiting going off. I would also like to have a pot of coffee in front of me. (can you tell I gave it up?) Anyone else have some new years wishes??? Besides the world peace one and no hunger and good health. Lets share and make them funny. I will go first this time. For New Years I wish that 1998 would not go as fast as 1997. That summer would be a true four or five months instead of the blink of an eye. I wish that Paris would move closer to New Jersey or that if thats impossible the ride on the Concorde didn't make me so sick. I also wish that our apprentice could go to the men who cloned Dolly and get herself cloned. And last but certainly not least. For 1998 I wish that coffee wasn't as bad for me as without it makes me feel. my best and Happy and Healthly New Year to all of you. pj (who thinks the new years eve party will be in her dreams.) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 16:10:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:10:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD1556.E1065020" Subject: RE: Congrats to Bob Oddy Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:53:55 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec30.165355.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD1556.E1065020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nice to hear... New lurkers should see his web page.. Congradulations. -----Original Message----- From: Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo [SMTP:Ensembles@compuserve.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 1:19 PM To: Bungi Subject: Congrats to Bob Oddy Since I know everyone on bungi doesn't receive Spectrum's "The Score" quarterly publication, I just want to let everyone know that Mr. Robert (Bob) Oddy's work titled "Central New York" was selected as the featured piece on the current Spectrum postcards. And I know Bob is a secret sometimes lurker here on bungi. So, congratulations Bob! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, North Wales, PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD1556.E1065020 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiAVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQAZAAAAUkU6IENvbmdyYXRzIHRvIEJvYiBP ZGR5ABgIAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcMAB4AEgA1ADcAAgB+AQEggAMADgAAAM0HDAAeABIANAAzAAIAeQEB CYABACEAAAA0RTg5QzBEQTQ2ODFEMTExODIxRjQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADPBgEDkAYAqAYAACEAAAAL AAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAoD66CmUV vQEeAHAAAQAAABkAAABSRTogQ29uZ3JhdHMgdG8gQm9iIE9kZHkAAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb0V ZQpv2sCJT4FGEdGCH0RFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAAAzaG91 bmRzQHVzYW9yLm5ldAAAAAMABhDhGX2bAwAHEKMCAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABOSUNFVE9IRUFSTkVX TFVSS0VSU1NIT1VMRFNFRUhJU1dFQlBBR0VDT05HUkFEVUxBVElPTlMtLS0tLU9SSUdJTkFMTUVT U0FHRS0tLS0tRlJPTTpDSFJJU1RJRVdPT0QmR0VPAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAiQMAAIUDAAAWBQAATFpG daFYL4MDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4OEDAzM50B9yACpAPjAgBjaArA4HNldDAgBxMCgwBQoRB2 cHJxMhF2fQqA2QjIIDsJbw4wNQKACoHsdWMAUAsDYxISC8UKsQsKhAqATg3gZSB0b+ggaGUKwC4Y wAezCkBMcmsEkAQgc2gIYGweZBmwCeAYcAQAIHdl5GIgCrBnZRjRG1EIUBEPIHJhZBnwYXRpHQIg cxjgF0oK9GxpM142AUAWkBcxA2B0BZB0oRIEMTYgLR9iTwUQ3mcLgAdABdAHkHMbAR9jHxdGHnQX MwsxHnZpLTGMNDQBQB3AMTgwAUBXDNAjAxrQRgNhOgyDYmkRYENoBRBzHDAYMFeCbwRwICYgR2UF sGEbECBEJ0EE8AnwegEYYFtTTVRQOkVVAIBlBtBsB5BABaBtZHB1ETBydhsgKDFdXxdFGtAGYAIw JJdUClBz8GRheSwmgAWQJ8EEkIYgHzAq8DE5OTcrkCI6K+AgUE0pJ1RvOSSXQnUPIACgKTd1Ym5q HqEkmBujdAQgGFFCwm8a0E9kZHkhDyIaGx3EFttTC4AYIUkga5RubwfgZSiwcnkCIBMYMAIgIGIt 8iBkb7kHkG4nBUAJcBggaSiwhTOlcB6hcnVtJwQgHCJUGIAGAAWhZSIgjHF1CsAekHJseRrgWy7Q HcBjHCMq8EkXRGr7KHAFQHcAcAVAGFEn8AVA2zTXNIN0EQAFQE0YsAfx6ythBUAoMIEpF0QwwjfB yncFsGsYQGl0J/AaELwiQynBG9ADIAfCWT6x9ziQOuAZoWUn8B6wCYAXRNdAoTyAGDBmGJB0CHA/ Md5wCJAYITVhQeJjCHAJcOc7ATdGF0RwbyVgOaALIHsccRFwbhoQNGUwghqBYfcaIQUAO3FzA3AR QAdyF0SfGUQYcQlwNVcbQVNvKvBvBaAv4xwGMHIhF0olJ0HfGOAlshdEBxAFQEcLYAQR6yeXKvBO CRFoJaAHQE5irFBBF0QgyEYFsXMu0P8E9BxBQ3ARAA8gTmILUBiQHREwIADAAxEYUDogZ51Noi0J cDiwB5B0QEk0/ygxF0QtMBohRbEYUUHiHcD/JWAq8FZDUj9NolQOBxAQ8Ps2sUahdlKxAaAn8Eaw BUEPFpIZ8BhwAkBwOi8v6ndbQC5UFy9TMx4TGfAXFzsXRBOBAF5QAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAA AAMAgBD/////QAAHMOAVsORkFb0BQAAIMOAVsORkFb0BCwABgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA A4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMAA4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAEgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMA BYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAGgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUA AAAAAAADAAeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMACIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgAJgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4ACoAI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAAuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAD2B ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD1556.E1065020-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 16:11:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:10:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD1556.E4339B40" Subject: RE: plant buddies Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:01:52 -0200 Message-ID: <1997Dec30.17152.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD1556.E4339B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Talking about reviving.. George bought me a nice, very nice kiln for = Christmas.. I know that kiln work has been replaced by mosaics as the = trend, but all ideas would be apprecieited.. Would like to start with = the folded candle shelter, but would like to to do a lot more.. Was = there a pair of girls in Floriada, maybe "Fantasia?" that has a kiln = line.... thanks you.=20 Gloria -----Original Message----- From: len alcamo [SMTP:alcamoz@mwt.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 11:33 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: plant buddies This might be of interest to folks who make suncatchers I have been rummaging around in my old stuff and found a few of my = *plant buddy* prototypes. These were essentially small 6-8 piece copper foiled ditties.... cute multi-color insect forms in side view with the wings = up and a segmented body............ they were soldered to a lenght of = bronze brazing rod which is nice and stiff and easy to solder. The marketing = idea was to stick one, or better yet several :-) down into the pot of a = nice plant and have it positioned in an attractive light catching manner. Sold a bunch of these at one point and I was wondering if they ever = became a standard hobbiest item. If not they might be worth reviving....can = never have too many variations in the craft and novelties market. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD1556.E4339B40 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiUVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQASAAAAUkU6IHBsYW50IGJ1ZGRpZXMAEAYB BYADAA4AAADNBwwAHgATAAEANAACAEgBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcMAB4AEgA3AAcAAgBQAQEJgAEAIQAA ADUyODlDMERBNDY4MUQxMTE4MjFGNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAL0GAQOQBgCMCAAAIQAAAAsAAgABAAAA CwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAgU2wnZhW9AR4AcAAB AAAAEgAAAFJFOiBwbGFudCBidWRkaWVzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb0VZidj2sCJU4FGEdGCH0RF U1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAAAzaG91bmRzQHVzYW9yLm5ldAAA AAMABhARfFVvAwAHEKEEAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABUQUxLSU5HQUJPVVRSRVZJVklOR0dFT1JHRUJP VUdIVE1FQU5JQ0UsVkVSWU5JQ0VLSUxORk9SQ0hSSVNUTUFTSUtOT1dUSEFUS0lMTldPUktIQVNC RUVOUkVQTEFDRURCWU1PAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAeAUAAHQFAADOBwAATFpGdcAYxBZ3AAoBAwH3IAKk A+MCAGOCaArAc2V0MCAHE4cCgwBQDvZwcnEyD/YmfQqACMggOwlvMjVmNQKACoF1YwBQCwNjAwBB C2BuZzEwMzOvC6cKsQqECoBUB0BrC4A8ZyABoAhgBUAJcHZpgxgQFXAuLiBHZQWwyGdlIBehZ2gF QAeABReAIAMAY2UsIHbVBJB5GcMgF0BsA6ACEEkFwENoBRBzdADAc0kYcSBJGsBubwfgdJcPgAVA GtN3BbBrIA+AvQQgYgnhF+ELURnwZBkA6xpgBGBzC3BjBCAdoRyg5RjwdAlwbmQaEBkAF8E7B0AD IGkBAB2hHUB1bDsekRmRcBFABZAIkGl0iwmAGHFXIUNsaWsfsfxvIBugCsAFQAPwHKAfg5cCECFg HoFjAHBkbBjw6nMfoGwiUHIaECBSITT7IwcjYWQjcBmwCQAZYQWwfmUb8iKgH2QJcBmhCrBpoQXA b2YgZylQbAQgmQuAIEYJAQcwZGEaEOUAwHkhkSJGAHABkACQ+GE/IhyUHZIZsBrTIxBObigRGHEc oW5rBCB59whgGIAWVEcqUxZaCvQjEHwzNgFAFRAWQQNgIlBjQnQQhDE2IC0x0k/7BRApsG4HQAXQ B5AfABjgPzHTFlYw5BZDCzEw5mktGDE0NAFAIxAxODC3AUAM0DVzYiowA2E6DIN+Yg/gJTADoAdA JPAEYCBAW1NNVFA6N9R6IEBtd3QuLSB0XV8WVTagBmACMDcHVApQc9UqoHkaEEQFkGUG0ASQhiAx oBoQMTk5NzwQLDE6FbAP8E05p1RvbTcHZwtgBBBAIFAVcGmKLgWgbTmodWJqMRHPNwcLUQIwIEFk ZAiQD0DPM480mTA0FetUaAQAGXD/MkAZUSGRKYELgCWhB5AFQOcjYSSBLdF3aCNwAMAjMfZzPuAk 8HQPcASQQbcWcs8cMA+AGjAdxXVtAMAyUd8XcQNgPuAekCoRbRpgJJH9I4F1ASAXgEqRAhBKghmh 7mYH0SmBSvEqQPMWVEFSnHkqKSAw4SeweXAHkO8YgETAB5AY8Hco0jLBOkE1BzFsGmBzAMAgoTYt /jgpIAiQGqEFoCHQO/ECEH8DEAmAFlRBgAJAQZEtQ2PfF8AY8BlwIVBQIC0I4yoB9w+wMSAbEm0p 8wCQAQAaID8IkAfgI/cD8BVwBCB1cO8WVEvCGbAPsGcHgEXhHpF9BHB5LUJY9h+CGmBPg3N/JJIJ cSNSJ4EJ8BlCKYFiEQNgbnplTZVyYXr/F1IDYB6QRvAZ4CQgROEag/9LwhugBpBLpCDxGmAjYlpz f08DKtEdYA/AF1Ig0hZUd/cfYiNwXnJjHXACIBoBBbH3HdACQDvxeQ/AWAEaMTKBsCA6LSkcECdQ dwOg90XRJwEfoXAnsSmBGbQWVP9A9EvCSRMiQGVhAJBQIGKB/0qjA5EcwB/QANBQIEkxIxB/GUJH sxdSA4EtIF/wFlpT/0siGbA+0V2RKYEfkU9RHMH/YoFlYUXRS7McMGGiHUAgAP8GcWDSbIMaYGPC HcE38RmRPxZUI5EgAAsRHBBHAGJi10GRBUAiQW0YgEkpkBxg/0ZBWdJFFx1BJBEX+BhwJPG/GcBj whZUSRMjYEcSbhpgfnYKwAcwaAIp8x+SBQBh/wGAS7McYBowVAEHkWBkatveTAnwLx4KgDM4RgWx R4C+YgT0aBEk4C2hGOBzGhBfC1Ag8WBCAxEjYDo+ZC31CXBxOxF0Ps49wFgBSpH/ZQUjEBugICGB wn2/Po8Wgf8HEGoRGjAfQXaQAxABoCUxHxzBFQMhUB2AAkBwOi/UL3eGwC4+1y+DIzCDLyFQFksW VBIBAInQAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMGCXGzZlFb0BQAAIMGCXGzZlFb0BCwAB gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAA AAAAAAMAA4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAEgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAGgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADAAeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAA AAMACIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgAJgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA NoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4ACoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAe AAuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAA AAADAA00/TcAAIEs ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD1556.E4339B40-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 16:27:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:27:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:24:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971230182805.1bef8364@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Dale, Thanks for answering (and thanks to everyone else who did too!!)- You agreed with Albert about Plaster of Paris, then Albert changed to not liking Portland Cement..... why don't you like plaster of paris..... it dries fast, so thought that might help. What is Whiting..... if I remember right, it is Calcium Carbonate.... which is ground limestone... (in which case if I sieve it finely enough maybe I can use the garden stuff)...... is this correct anyone????? I still am not sure if the linseed oil sold in little cans for an oil paint medium, is boiled linseed oil, does anyone know???? I wonder if it isn't just super refined for fine arts??? Thanks Albert for warning about cement (portland), I had already gathered from the archives that this was a big NO NO!!! Thanks again all of you.... Meg At 10:37 AM 12/30/97 -0600, you wrote: >Meg- > I recently decided to work in lead came as well. I tried several >"recipes" with items I have around the house, and although certain aspects >of it worked, I was dissatisfied with the final results. I would take >Albert's advice about no Plaster-of-Paris.... this was MY first mistake! >What follows is the recipe given to me by a trusted friend, and it was like >night and day, once I got the mixture right. > > >Cement for Lead Came > >In Can #1 combine 2 measures of turpentine with 1 measure of boiled linseed >oil. > >(Here you MUST use (boiled) linseed oil.... unboiled will not set up right, >I am unsure as to what the boiling point of the oil is, so I don't know if >you can boil your own... It is available at stores that sell paint, and >REAL turpentine....not the environmentally friendly substitute Turp-a-tine >or Turp-ta-tine, which are substantially more expensive anyway.) > >In Can #2 combine Whiting and lampblack depending on the size of your >project.... > >(both cans will keep well if covered, so don't worry about having a little >extra. I have used other colorant mediums.... a liquid stove black worked, >although I had to add more dry ingredients.... it achieved a grey color >that was acceptable. I think that acrylic may work.... never tried it, and >a cement colorant may as well.... I would be careful of grit that may >scratch the glass.) > >Anyway...In Container #3 or a mixing bowl, combine dry ingredients with >enough wet ingredients to have a frosting like consistency. Then apply to >panel. If you are going to vary the recipe in anyway.... I would recommend >trying it on a sample piece with just clear window glass first.... a few >lead lines will do, it will also help you get the technique of application >down pat before your larger project. > >Remember to save any 'scrubber' whiting that is not clumped.... as it can >be used in your next batch of cement. > >Hope this is helpful, and hope there are other suggestions for you.... I am >sure that if I have said anything wrong, a correction will be forthcoming >*wink*. > >Dale > >---------- >> From: Richard LaVal >> To: glass@bungi.com >> Subject: Gatewayed mail message >> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 7:44 AM >> >> Dear Bungians, >> I decided to try out a project with lead came... and I can't get >> commercial putty... cement whatever here. On reading the back archives >from >> bungi on the subject, there are recipes which include plaster of paris, >> calcium carbonate, and boiled linseed oil. I have plaster of paris, and >I >> have finely ground limestone (which I am told it is calcium cabonate) for >my >> garden, and my mother has linseed oil as a medium for her oil painting >(not >> boiled, can I boil it?). Can I use these ingredients? Can I use acrylic >> paint to darken it? Would the black powder they use to color cement >work? >> I assume that it would look nicer dark, rather than to have all that >white >> shining up through the glass. >> Someone told me (I haven't checked it may be an evil rumor) that >no >> one who works in came here cements it... that that is only for northern >> climes... sounds like hogwash to me as I gather that part of the reason >is >> for reinforcing... and part for weatherproofing... and it rains and blows >> here too!! Anyone have any opinions out there??? Thanks Meg >> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ >> Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace >> apdo. 24-5655 >> Monteverde, Puntarenas >> COSTA RICA >> phone 645 5052 >> >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde, Puntarenas COSTA RICA phone 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 16:46:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:46:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Sand Blasting 'Parts' Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:46:13 -0800 Message-ID: <199712310046.QAA13116@ark.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Happy New Year Gang! ...Can anyone out there tell me what size sandblast nozzles I should be using for etching and sand carving? Also, where I can get them? ...What kind of sand (Grit?) would you recommend? I am trying to teach myself this technique and I could sure use some pointers!! Thanks... Wayne Wayne Munro 'Snail mail' address 2960 Suffield Road, Courtenay, B.C. Canada V9N-3V5 Phone and Fax-- (250) 338-5507 "Call before sending a fax so setup is complete" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 16:56:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:55:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Sand Blasting 'Parts' Date: Tue, 30 Dec 97 17:55:17 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<199712310046.QAA13116@ark.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > ...Can anyone out there tell me what size sandblast nozzles I should be > using for etching and sand carving? Also, where I can get them? > ...What kind of sand (Grit?) would you recommend? > > I am trying to teach myself this technique and I could sure use some > pointers!! Thanks... > Wayne try http://www.tiptools.com --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 19:33:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:32:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ictc.com!bankers From: "The Banker's House" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:34:15 -0600 Message-ID: <199712310338.VAA11248@ns.ictc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Cement or putty mixes involve various measures of the same few ingredients. 1) Boiled Linseed Oil 2) Whiting 3) Plaster of Paris 4) Turpentine 5) Lamp Black Boiled Linseed oil Boiled is used because it dries more quickly. Nothing evaporates from it, but instead it reacts with oxygen to harden. The chemical reaction begins to take place when it is heated, or exposed to certain other chemicals. Boiled oil is not actually boiled... just heated, and today the process is done with chemicals. Full drying may take 10 years, but a very durable and waterproof skin coat is achieved in 2-3 days. Whiting Powdered calcium carbonate, or chalk. It is inert, meaning that it reacts chemically with nothing. It is the necessary material for a good, non-reactive, relatively flexible putty. It is also noted as the best material to properly clean the residue off the glass after cementing. Plaster of Paris Produced by roasting gypsum, it is calcium sulfate. It is roasted to dry it, so that it can be reconstituted with water. It forms a hard, brittle substance. This ability to combine with water is why it should NOT be used as the sole agent in cement/putty, where such a hard-setting, brittle, water soluble material is not desired. It may be used as an inexpensive extender always in substantially lesser amounts than the whiting. Putty can be made without plaster, but not without whiting. Turpentine Distillate of resin from coniferous trees. It has a slower evaporation rate, isn't as flammable, and isn't as toxic as other substances. As it dries, it becomes thick and viscous which adds to the waterproofing of the putty. Lamp Black A fine, almost pure carbon powder used as a pigment. It is the soot created from burning petroleum oils, tars, and resins. It should be kept to a minimum, as it inhibits the drying of the linseed oil. All recipes vary, and some add japan driers to speed drying time. Vegetable black can be used in place of carbon black. About as many possible combinations as you can imagine. Portland Cement, a calcined mixture made up of calcium carbonate and aluminum silicate, and sets up much the same way plaster does. Plaster sets up quicker, and is soluble in water, Portland hardens slower, and results in a very hard, insoluble material. The reason these materials can be dangerous to use on windows, is there hardness, and the brittle constitution in regards to plaster. A leaded glass window needs to be flexible enough to move with the expansion of the materials during thermal changes. Because the materials do not flex or crack, the glass is more likely to. The above info was gleaned from several reference sources... I welcome more information on the subject, as it is most interesting to hear what others use. Dale Bentley ---------- > From: Richard LaVal > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message > Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 6:24 PM > > Dear Dale, > Thanks for answering (and thanks to everyone else who did too!!)- > You agreed with Albert about Plaster of Paris, then Albert changed > to not liking Portland Cement..... why don't you like plaster of paris..... > it dries fast, so thought that might help. > What is Whiting..... if I remember right, it is Calcium > Carbonate.... which is ground limestone... (in which case if I sieve it > finely enough maybe I can use the garden stuff)...... is this correct > anyone????? > I still am not sure if the linseed oil sold in little cans for an oil > paint medium, is boiled linseed oil, does anyone know???? I wonder if it > isn't just super refined for fine arts??? > Thanks Albert for warning about cement (portland), I had already > gathered from the archives that this was a big NO NO!!! Thanks again all of > you.... Meg > > > At 10:37 AM 12/30/97 -0600, you wrote: > >Meg- > > I recently decided to work in lead came as well. I tried several > >"recipes" with items I have around the house, and although certain aspects > >of it worked, I was dissatisfied with the final results. I would take > >Albert's advice about no Plaster-of-Paris.... this was MY first mistake! > >What follows is the recipe given to me by a trusted friend, and it was like > >night and day, once I got the mixture right. > > > > > >Cement for Lead Came > > > >In Can #1 combine 2 measures of turpentine with 1 measure of boiled linseed > >oil. > > > >(Here you MUST use (boiled) linseed oil.... unboiled will not set up right, > >I am unsure as to what the boiling point of the oil is, so I don't know if > >you can boil your own... It is available at stores that sell paint, and > >REAL turpentine....not the environmentally friendly substitute Turp-a-tine > >or Turp-ta-tine, which are substantially more expensive anyway.) > > > >In Can #2 combine Whiting and lampblack depending on the size of your > >project.... > > > >(both cans will keep well if covered, so don't worry about having a little > >extra. I have used other colorant mediums.... a liquid stove black worked, > >although I had to add more dry ingredients.... it achieved a grey color > >that was acceptable. I think that acrylic may work.... never tried it, and > >a cement colorant may as well.... I would be careful of grit that may > >scratch the glass.) > > > >Anyway...In Container #3 or a mixing bowl, combine dry ingredients with > >enough wet ingredients to have a frosting like consistency. Then apply to > >panel. If you are going to vary the recipe in anyway.... I would recommend > >trying it on a sample piece with just clear window glass first.... a few > >lead lines will do, it will also help you get the technique of application > >down pat before your larger project. > > > >Remember to save any 'scrubber' whiting that is not clumped.... as it can > >be used in your next batch of cement. > > > >Hope this is helpful, and hope there are other suggestions for you.... I am > >sure that if I have said anything wrong, a correction will be forthcoming > >*wink*. > > > >Dale > > > >---------- > >> From: Richard LaVal > >> To: glass@bungi.com > >> Subject: Gatewayed mail message > >> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 7:44 AM > >> > >> Dear Bungians, > >> I decided to try out a project with lead came... and I can't get > >> commercial putty... cement whatever here. On reading the back archives > >from > >> bungi on the subject, there are recipes which include plaster of paris, > >> calcium carbonate, and boiled linseed oil. I have plaster of paris, and > >I > >> have finely ground limestone (which I am told it is calcium cabonate) for > >my > >> garden, and my mother has linseed oil as a medium for her oil painting > >(not > >> boiled, can I boil it?). Can I use these ingredients? Can I use acrylic > >> paint to darken it? Would the black powder they use to color cement > >work? > >> I assume that it would look nicer dark, rather than to have all that > >white > >> shining up through the glass. > >> Someone told me (I haven't checked it may be an evil rumor) that > >no > >> one who works in came here cements it... that that is only for northern > >> climes... sounds like hogwash to me as I gather that part of the reason > >is > >> for reinforcing... and part for weatherproofing... and it rains and blows > >> here too!! Anyone have any opinions out there??? Thanks Meg > >> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ > >> Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace > >> apdo. 24-5655 > >> Monteverde, Puntarenas > >> COSTA RICA > >> phone 645 5052 > >> > >> ---- > >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ > Richard LaVal and Meg Wallace > apdo. 24-5655 > Monteverde, Puntarenas > COSTA RICA > phone 645 5052 > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 21:22:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:21:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:11:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec30.19110.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Dale- I just purchased "Conservation of Stained Glass in America" by Julie Sloan and recommend it to anyone interested in the fabrication and = restoration of stained glass windows. It includes an extensive section on cements/putties and their proper ingredients. Both the use of = portland cement and plaster of Paris are strongly discouraged. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Dec 30 22:14:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:14:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eaglei.net!spinn From: spinn@eaglei.net (Stephen Pinn) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Sand Blasting 'Parts' Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 06:13:02 GMT Message-ID: <1997Dec31.6132.0> References: <<199712310046.QAA13116@ark.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: PinnCorp Precedence: bulk No problem. Pressure or Syphon system? In my pressure system I use 1/16" and 3/32" tips. I really don't use a syphon system so I can't help you there. Tip size is, of course, most effected by compressor CFM. Regards=20 Steve On Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:46:13 -0800, you wrote: >Happy New Year Gang! >...Can anyone out there tell me what size sandblast nozzles I should be >using for etching and sand carving? Also, where I can get them?=20 >...What kind of sand (Grit?) would you recommend? > >I am trying to teach myself this technique and I could sure use some = pointers!! >Thanks... > Wayne > > >Wayne Munro 'Snail mail' address >2960 Suffield Road, >Courtenay, B.C. Canada V9N-3V5 > >Phone and Fax-- (250) 338-5507 =20 > "Call before sending a fax so setup is complete" > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 00:11:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:10:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Sand Blasting 'Parts' Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:07:46, -0500 Message-ID: <199712310807.DAA11600@mime4.prodigy.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > ...Can anyone out there tell me what size sandblast nozzles I should be > using for etching and sand carving? Also, where I can get them? > ...What kind of sand (Grit?) would you recommend? > > I am trying to teach myself this technique and I could sure use some > pointers!! Thanks... > Wayne I like a 1/16" carbide tip. This is about the smallest size available. After a few hours of use with 120 grit aluminum oxide the tip will have opened up to more like 1/8" and after a few more hours will be to large for my compressor to carry. So a large tip is not as potentially usefully as a smaller one. A 3 1/2 horsepower compressor will not provide sufficient air for a tip over 1/8" in continuous operation. I have a vacuum exhausted blast cabinet and seem to prefer 120 grit aluminum oxide in my pressure pot system. The grit costs about 75 cents a pound in bulk and turns out to be cheaper than 4 cent a pound 60 grit crystal silica sand due to recycling the oxide many times. The oxide being a crystal does not get dull but breaks down to smaller sharp crystals until so small the vacuum gets it. The sand is dusty, cuts relatively poorly and can give you silicosis which kills. Otherwise sand is good for one time use outside with adequate respatory and eye protection. For outside use a cheap syphon system will do. There are other abrasives that are popular like crystal garnet and the very hard carbonrundm. Of course, different grits will give a different effect as do the different blasting mediums. Check your yellow pages under abrasives and sand blasting also visit auto body shops to check out equipment. Blast on, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau (You've got to be smarter than the gear you're working with.) Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, 26746 Mountain Meadow Road, Escondido, CA, 92026,USA Voice (760) 749-3966 FAX (760) 749-6427 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 10:11:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:10:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: inspace.net!herba From: "Herb Adler" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:21:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec31.72150.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk What does Julie Sloan recommend instead of plaster of paris or Portland Cement? -----Original Message----- From: Michael J. Greer To: INTERNET:glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 12:30 AM Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message >Hi Dale- > >I just purchased "Conservation of >Stained Glass in America" by Julie >Sloan and recommend it to anyone >interested in the fabrication and = > >restoration of stained glass windows. >It includes an extensive section on >cements/putties and their proper >ingredients. Both the use of = > >portland cement and plaster of >Paris are strongly discouraged. > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 10:26:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:26:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ictc.com!bankers From: "The Banker's House" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:27:41 -0600 Message-ID: <199712311831.MAA14532@ns.ictc.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk WHITING.... Calcium Carbonate Dale Bentley ---------- > From: Herb Adler > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message > Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 11:21 AM > > What does Julie Sloan recommend instead of plaster of paris or Portland > Cement? > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael J. Greer > To: INTERNET:glass@bungi.com > Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 12:30 AM > Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message > > > >Hi Dale- > > > >I just purchased "Conservation of > >Stained Glass in America" by Julie > >Sloan and recommend it to anyone > >interested in the fabrication and = > > > >restoration of stained glass windows. > >It includes an extensive section on > >cements/putties and their proper > >ingredients. Both the use of = > > > >portland cement and plaster of > >Paris are strongly discouraged. > > > >Best regards, > > > >Dani Greer > >Greer Gallery & Studios > >http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 12:12:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:11:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:19:29 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > What does Julie Sloan recommend instead of plaster of paris or Portland > Cement? Well, to quote her book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in America" copyright r 1993 Julie L. Sloan, published by Art in Architecture Press (to insert a blatant plug) $24.95 plus shipping. There is a web site -- http://www.aiap.com/ -- but it's down at the moment. Try in a day or two, if you're interested in what the reviewers have to say ... although Dani Greer's got to have earned some kind of commission (or at least a big hug!) for all the rave reviews she posts here. The quote below consists of a couple of chunks pulled from the text, so there's additional information in the book that doesn't appear here: "Traditionally, waterproofing compound was composed basically of boiled linseed oil and whiting, with plaster of Paris to extend the mixture, turpentine to thin it, red, white or yellow lead as a drier of the oil, and lamp black to color the compound grey. These six ingredients are found in most recipes for waterproofing putty from the nineteenth century until the mid-1970s, when the use of lead was outlawed in the US. (This includes the how-to or handbooks written by Christopher Whall, Stained Glass Work (New York: D. Appleton and Company, 1905); Arthur Louis Duthie, Decorative Glass Processes (London: Archibald Constable & Co. Ltd, 1908); E.W. Twining, The Art and Craft of Stained Glass (London: Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons, Ltd, 1928); Patrick Reyntiens, The Technique of Stained Glass (New York: Watson-Guptill, 1967); Alastair Duncan, The Technique of Leaded Glass (London: B.T. Batsford, Ltd, 1975); and Peter Mollica, Stained Glass Primer (Berkeley, CA: Mollica Stained Glass Press, 1977). Linseed oil is a drying oil, used as the medium in artists' oil paint. In waterproofing compound, boiled linseed oil is used because it dries more quickly than unboiled oil. The process of drying is not a volatilization; that is, nothing evaporates from linseed oil to leave a solid behind, which is what happens when lacquers or watercolors, for instance, dry. Instead, linseed oil oxidizes and polymerizes, meaning that it absorbs oxygen from the atmosphere, which causes a chemical change in the oil and results in its thickening and hardening. A chemical change cannot be reversed; set waterproofing compound can never be dissolved to its constituent components of linseed oil and whiting, unlike lacquer, for instance, which can be dissolved in the medium in which it was applied originally. This absorption of oxygen and subsequent chemical change begins to take place when linseed oil is heated or exposed to driers or other chemicals, or to sunlight. This is the beginning of the polymerization process. Boiled linseed oil is not actually boiled; it is heated until oxidation begins, but the boiling point is not reached. Today, "boiled" oil is dried with chemicals. This drying process results in a thicker substance which takes less time to fully polymerize. Ultimately, when applied and left to set in the air, the fully polymerized (or dried) oil becomes hard, very durable and waterproof. Although full drying requires literally tens of years (especially in thick applications, such as in a bevel), initial oxidation and drying is achieved in two or three days, after which time a skin or harder surface has formed which may be painted. Sunlight aids in the drying process, although too much sun causes cracking. Whiting is powdered calcium carbonate, or chalk. It is inert, meaning that it reacts chemically with nothing. It has long been used as an inexpensive and inferior white pigment in non-oil paints or an extender for oil paints. Combined with linseed oil, it has a long history as a putty used in repairing paintings, not to mention in the glazing of windows. Plaster of Paris is calcium sulfate. It is produced by roasting gypsum (which is also calcium sulfate) to drive off most of the water bonded to its molecules. This allows plaster of Paris to become active, capable of readily and quickly re-combining with water to form a hard, brittle material. This ability to combine with water is probably not why it was used in putties, where such a hard-setting, brittle, water-soluble material is not desired. While whiting is used as an extender for oil paints, plaster was considered inferior for this use because of its hygroscopic nature (meaning it absorbs water from the air). However, in linseed-oil putty, plaster is used as an inexpensive extender. In putty recipes, whiting is listed as the principle solid ingredient. Putty can be made without plaster, but not without whiting. While plaster is listed in many (but not all) recipes, it is always in quantities smaller than those required of whiting -- typically, three or four parts whiting to two or three parts plaster. The most controversial and potentially dangerous ingredient for window putties is Portland cement. It is only in the last thirty to forty years that Portland cement has found its way into glazing putties. Portland cement is a calcined mixture of roughly three parts of calcium carbonate (chalk or limestone) to one part aluminum silicates (clay). Its name derives from the similarity in appearance and hardness to Portland (England) limestone. Portland cement sets up in much the same way plaster of Paris does, by reacting with water to create heat. However, whereas plaster sets very quickly and is ultimately rather brittle but soluble in water, Portland cement continues to harden for a long period of time and results in a very hard, insoluble material. The reason this material is dangerous to use on windows is its hardness. A leaded glass window must move with the expansion and contraction of the lead came during thermal changes and with wind pressure. As Portland cement hardens and becomes more rigid, it allows the window to move less and less. Because the cement will not flex or crack if the window is forced to move, the glass is likely to break. In addition, because Portland cement is insoluble, it will be virtually impossible to dismantle the panel without breaking glass. It also exhibits excellent adhesion to glass, meaning that even if the panel comes apart, the putty is very difficult to remove from the glass." Albert Lewis, President Art in Architecture Press, Inc. 54 Cherry Street, North Adams MA 01247 (413) 663-5512 Fax: (413) 663-7167 http://www.aiap.com [Home Page] http://www.aiap.com/amazon/ [2700+ Glass Books!] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 13:31:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:30:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flinet.com!kenneil From: Ken Neil To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Taurus II- 2, Need some help Please Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:30:28 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Santa bought me for Christmas a Taurus II, and I just love it!! The only thing I'm a little disappointed with is it didn't come with any instructions on when and how to clean the saw??? How often do you change the water? I imagine you have to be real careful not to get the motor wet?? I know a lot of you guys have the same saw.....Please let me know what you think is best. Of course any other comments or suggestions on the saw are always welcome and greatly appreciated. Thanks Brenda ******************************************************************** Been There........ Done That! Ken Neil Jupiter, Florida ******************************************************************** ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 14:33:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:32:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nji.com!spinelli From: spinelli To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Stain Glass Value? Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:32:52 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec31.93252.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Do you know how I can determine the value of some stained glass windows? Some time ago while in England I purchased five stained glass windows. The windows were removed from a house in Greenwich England. I believe that they were part of a porch and these were the top pieces. Each panel is made up of amber, green and white pieces all held together with lead. Lou ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 15:14:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:13:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stain Glass Value? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:21:40 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Do you know how I can determine the value of some stained glass windows? Not to make this the Julie Sloan show or anything, but she could probably make some suggestions for you. She can be contacted at jsloan@vgernet.net Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 15:51:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:50:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: en.com!jamesmc From: Jim McAdam To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stain Glass Value? Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:48:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec31.84838.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: James McAdam Studio's Precedence: bulk A rule of thumb is $100 a square foot, not including the frame. JIm Albert Lewis wrote: > > Do you know how I can determine the value of some stained glass windows? > > Not to make this the Julie Sloan show or anything, but she could > probably make some suggestions for you. She can be contacted at > jsloan@vgernet.net > > Albert > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Christmastime reminds us of the things that really count, the things in life we could not do without, Like family, home, and memories, And friends who mean a lot... For love is what the season's all about. May the special joys of Christmas Warm your heart today and always. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 16:03:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:03:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Taurus II- 2, Need some help Please Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:00:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec31.14028.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Brenda, Not very hard to take care of, change the water every 2-3 days depending on your use, if it will not be used in several days, drain it, clean well, and check the grommets for wear. When I start to use mine, I either pour ice (or a block of 'Blue Ice') in the left hand side. It is supposed to prolong the life of the blade, and does cut better. Don't over fill, but make sure the blade is wet when cutting. The black rubber drive belt carries the water to the blade. When draining and cleaning do not immerse the motor, and dry well when done. Be careful not to use a 'rag' or other cloth when the blade is running. If you need to wipe the work surface use a sponge. In Florida's wet climate, put one or two drops of bleach in the water (not more) to keep pond scum from growing. I'm in Sarasota, Florida. One other tip, for Diamond Max grinder owners, attach a 4-6 foot long clear plastic tube to the discharge line of the grinder. Use a ring clamp to secure it tight, and run this new 'drain' line to a 2-3 gallon bucket on the floor under your bench. Voila-no more overflowing drain water cups. And put a few drops of bleach in the bucket with the water to keep the pond scum down, too. Enjoy, both gismo's make my life a lot easier, and I cut soft metals with the ring saw too. If you cut precious metals, you can precipitate out the cuttings to be sent back to the refiners. I do jewelry too. The Diamond Max/Bevel Max are great for limited stone polishing, when I've gotten a nick in a gemstone. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Ken Neil wrote: > > Santa bought me for Christmas a Taurus II, and I just love it!! The only > thing I'm a little disappointed with is it didn't come with any > instructions on when and how to clean the saw??? How often do you change > the water? I imagine you have to be real careful not to get the motor > wet?? I know a lot of you guys have the same saw.....Please let me know > what you think is best. Of course any other comments or suggestions on > the saw are always welcome and greatly appreciated. Thanks Brenda > > ******************************************************************** > Been There........ > Done That! > Ken Neil > Jupiter, Florida > ******************************************************************** > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 16:13:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:13:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:10:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec31.141047.0> References: <<199712302342.SAA25064@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Me too PJ, still haven't gotten all the Christmas orders finished, nose to the grinder stone. Happy New year to everyone, may 1998 be more profitable for everyone, and not 'clump' up the orders so much. Santa brought me a scanner and a Paragon insta-heat little kiln, so will be busy glassing and finally getting some pictures together for my web site. Now all I have to do is get the web site set up. Joy oh Joy, how come there is not 3 of me?? Tonight is New Years eve, the one night of the year I guaranty I will stay home, and not fight the traffic. And last for PJ, one cup of coffee a day may keep the headaches away. I drink tea, and lots of it. Coffee gives me an upset stomach, but a cup when I have a headache works. Best Wishes for 1998 to all, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations pj friend wrote: > > dani wrote, > > >"Going too fast, too much on the > >plate" - Boy, can we relate, Albert!! > >I truly cannot remember the last > >time I was bored.... and think what > >a blessing that is, really. > > Bored??/ I wanna be bored!! At least for five minutes so I can remember what > it felt like. I would also like one day to get more than 6 hours sleep and > be able to have one conversation without call waiting going off. > > I would also like to have a pot of coffee in front of me. (can you tell I > gave it up?) > > Anyone else have some new years wishes??? Besides the world peace one and > no hunger and good health. > > Lets share and make them funny. > > I will go first this time. > > For New Years I wish that 1998 would not go as fast as 1997. That summer > would be a true four or five months instead of the blink of an eye. > I wish that Paris would move closer to New Jersey or that if thats impossible > the ride on the Concorde didn't make me so sick. > I also wish that our apprentice could go to the men who cloned Dolly and > get herself cloned. > > And last but certainly not least. For 1998 I wish that coffee wasn't as bad > for me as > without it makes me feel. > > my best and Happy and Healthly New Year to all of you. > > pj (who thinks the new years eve party will be in her dreams.) > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 18:33:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:32:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:32:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Dec31.16328.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk =2E.."for all the rave reviews she posts here". Well, it's a good book and certainly the most recent thing I've read about the subject. = And, really, Albert, somebody has to do a little promoting! Good grief! How often do the newcomers to this site hear about the International Guild of Glass Artists, Mr. Director? You are almost as bad as my husband who is Mr. Understatement = personified! For example, when I signed us up as members of I.G.G.A., I was thrilled to learn that I would get membership logos to put on my shop door as part of the cost. I knew I'd have to dig my heels in with Michael because he won't even let me put the charge card logos on the door (he thinks the design is ugly... picky, picky!) When I got the logos, Michael was delighted and immediately approved putting them on the door!! Why the sudden about-face, you ask? Because I.G.G.A.'s logos are about the size of a quarter, clear with thin black print.... VERY subtle... sooo understated. Really, guys, a little larger would not have been too tasteless... say the size of a silver dollar.... or even a baseball. We're not asking for lime-green neon here! ;-) Oh, and on another subject, I just noticed that Peter Mollica in his Stained Glass Primer does include portland cement in the putty recipe. Have to remember to point that out when I recommend the book to newcomers. Best regards, Dani Greer = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 21:29:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:29:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: softcom.net!mthaxton From: "Melissa Thaxton" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Score Direction (was Cutting Glass) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:29:00 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec31.13290.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I've used coat hanger for reinforcement in windows before. Happy New years everyone! Melissa >> I still want to hear how you solder your work with those coat hangers and >> acetelye (sp?). >> >> my best, >> pj (who knows that there is a new year out there somewhere) >> >PJ PJ PJ no no no I or anyone else here don't use the hangers on glass. >HMMM if I could only figure out how this got started. The idea was to use >the coat hanger on the stick part of the plant buddy I think, and then just >make the solder stick to it to attach the small glass form to it. Not to use >the hanger for solder but to clean and tin the coat hanger. I think we all >went off in different directions on this one. I'm just as mixed up as the >rest of you. And I'm not saying to use the acetylne tanks to heat the solder >either or we might have lead soup. LOL >deb >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Dec 31 21:34:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:34:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: softcom.net!mthaxton From: "Melissa Thaxton" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: plant buddies Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:33:56 -0800 Message-ID: <1997Dec31.133356.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I used to work for a man Named Phil, he makes kilns. I could give you info if you would like. His buiseness Rainbow Glass and Beads is in Sacramento Ca. Hope this helps. Melissa -----Original Message----- From: Gloria & George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: 'glass@bungi.com' Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 4:44 PM Subject: RE: plant buddies Talking about reviving.. George bought me a nice, very nice kiln for Christmas.. I know that kiln work has been replaced by mosaics as the trend, but all ideas would be apprecieited.. Would like to start with the folded candle shelter, but would like to to do a lot more.. Was there a pair of girls in Floriada, maybe "Fantasia?" that has a kiln line.... thanks you. Gloria -----Original Message----- From: len alcamo [SMTP:alcamoz@mwt.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 11:33 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: plant buddies This might be of interest to folks who make suncatchers I have been rummaging around in my old stuff and found a few of my *plant buddy* prototypes. These were essentially small 6-8 piece copper foiled ditties.... cute multi-color insect forms in side view with the wings up and a segmented body............ they were soldered to a lenght of bronze brazing rod which is nice and stiff and easy to solder. The marketing idea was to stick one, or better yet several :-) down into the pot of a nice plant and have it positioned in an attractive light catching manner. Sold a bunch of these at one point and I was wondering if they ever became a standard hobbiest item. If not they might be worth reviving....can never have too many variations in the craft and novelties market. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass