From owner-glass Sun Jun 1 08:20:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:19:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tiffany exhibits in D.C. Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 10:21:53 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun1.102153.0> References: <<1997May30.222225.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > My Contributions are: > > The Old Blanford Church in Petersburg Va. (well worth the visit > they have about 12 or 14 windows) > > The Putnam United Presbyterian Church in Zanesville, Ohio has one. The First Unitarian Church of Philadelphia, 2125 Chestnut St. has windows by Tiffany and LaFarge. For information on tours their web site is: http://www.libertynet.org:80/~firstuu/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 1 08:20:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What A Day! Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 11:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun1.72013.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk AND Hilary you forgot to tell, Mr. Oddy is self taught! He doesn't use a lightbox, he uses a window (which he remembers to shut ALL the time now), and a bandsaw for some of those wicked cuts...the leaves on the snake pic insert into the background glass. He also brought along an album of pictures of his work. One piece was that of a one-celled organism (with no political ties), which was spherical yet a flat piece. He told us he achieved that three dimensional effect using geometry. As for advice "whatever works" to achieve the effect you are going for. He cleans his finished piece with whatever he has...I think he mentioned Windex. He brought the Snake piece with him after removing it from his client's window, built a crate for it, and flew it here with himself, compliments of the Warners. Remember that discussion we had about the perfect stained glass store....I am so glad I live right down the turnpike from this store, AND they have Angelo to really color the day! The Warners extended their welcome and graciously made me feel at home in their store. Mr. Oddy was unpretentious and humorous, he answered all questions put to him and laughed along with us at some of them. It was great to put faces with names of the artists on this list. Meeting those people and listening to them was a really neat experience for me. Bungee cords for all! Maureen mosfunland@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 1 10:35:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:34:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: telusplanet.net!dwightj From: telusplanet.net!dwightj To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: what a day Date: Sun Jun 1 10:34:32 1997 Message-ID: <1997Jun2.8932.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hilary and Maureen, You are so lucky! What's the scoop about the session being taped. Please let us know because I'm still interested. Sincerely, Lorna from Canada e mail: dwightj@telusplanet.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 1 13:37:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:36:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: grinder question Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 16:33:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun1.123320.0> References: <<1997May31.61942.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Vafi5@aol.com wrote: > > Hi I'm quite new to stained glass and so I was interested to hear that > different types of glass required a different bit. Could you tell me what > glass needs what bit or would it be hard to list? Even ifyou could give me a > few I'd be very happy.Thanks.VAFI5@AOL.COM. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well it's really not that. a general grinding bit will grind any kind of glass. but there are different kinds of tips. like the "ripple bit", that knocks off the higher ridges on ripple glass. or the lamp bit that gives you an angle for tighter joints (both which can be used for easier foiling. and of course there are the different grits: fine is for antique, mirror, or chip free grinding. there's the speed bit, for taking off larger amounts, but i never really use it. and the general bit, which i mainly use. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 1 14:23:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:23:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Tiffany exhibits in D.C. Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 17:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun1.132812.0> References: <<1997May30.222225.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hampdon United Methodist Church in Baltimore (Next to John Hopkins University and is an urban war zone) has original Tiffany's. The kevlar on the outside hinders the view, but if you go in they are beautiful. Bob Jones rejones@capaccess.org ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 1 16:48:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 16:47:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: SOS to Australia - non-stained glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 00:46:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199706012347.AAA15813@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Friends in Australia, A lot of you are lurking - I know. I would be most appreciative of you getting in touch with me off-group, especially if you live/work in or around Brisbane. I need a little bit of help concerning a young family member who has gone astray and is in serious trouble and who we possibly need to take some action over here in UK to help. But we are very short on information generally. At this point in time, nothing more than you just letting me know that you are there and could possibly help me with a bit of information-gathering on a non-commital basis. I apologise for "using" the Group and I apologise if I offend anybody. Any links to the University in Brisbane, any dept of Arts or Music would also perhaps be helpful. My 21 year-old niece (by marriage) has become involved in heroin and we have one distraught telephone conversation in the middle of the night to go by and track her down by. We need to find her. All I know is that she is a student at Brisbane University studying Arts & Music. Can you help.....??? Elisabeth 'n Toby Apologies once more...... ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 1 19:01:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:00:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: what a day Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 21:02:16 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun1.21216.0> References: <<1997Jun2.8932.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > ...What's the scoop about the session being taped. Jeanne had a camcorder. We have to hear from her. Mr. Oddy was very soft spoken so get excited with caution. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 1 20:18:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:17:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: epix.net!winola From: winola@epix.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: what a day Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:00:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun1.4029.0> References: <<1997Jun1.21216.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hilary A. Bobker wrote: > The scoop is that Mr. Oddy is very soft spoken and the voice is not good. sorry all you can hear very little and that is when you have volume up all the way. Jeanne > > ...What's the scoop about the session being taped. > > Jeanne had a camcorder. We have to hear from her. Mr. Oddy was very soft > spoken so get excited with caution. > > Hilary > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 1 20:18:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: epix.net!winola From: winola@epix.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: vidio's good but the sound is very bad . Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 06:20:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1997May31.23205.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk SORRY !!! I got there a little late. (was a long ride) but anyway the sound stinks you can hear some but not all,mostly Angelo though. Mr Oddy is very soft speaker. jeanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 1 23:40:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:40:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: telusplanet.net!dwightj From: telusplanet.net!dwightj To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: thanking Steve for suggestion re: chandalier jewels Date: Sun Jun 1 23:40:07 1997 Message-ID: <1997Jun2.21157.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Steve, couldn't get your right e mail address. Thanks for the suggestion. Sincerely, Lorna e mail: dwightj@telusplanet.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 2 04:14:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 04:13:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!studioone1 From: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: grinder bits Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 07:12:28 EDT Message-ID: <1997Jun2.111228.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Has anyone had any problems recently with grinder bits? I used to be able to get alot of use out of mine. Now them don't seem to be lasting any time at all. There doesn't seem to be as much diamond on them. I have tried different brands due to this problem, seeing no real difference. dee studioone1@Juno.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 2 04:57:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 04:56:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "[unknown]" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Tiffany exhibits in D.C. Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 07:56:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun2.35631.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk There's a set of three John La Farge cloisonne (Fused) stained glass windows (1907) representing "Art, Education, Music" in the sanctuary building of the Fleisher Art Memorial, 709-721 Catharine Street, Philadelphia, PA 19147. You can call them at (215) 922-3456 or fax (215)= 922-5327. Office hours are 9:30-5:00 M-F. =2E..Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 2 06:11:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:10:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: jandj@tvutel.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: grinder bits Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 08:12:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun2.31244.0> References: <<1997Jun2.111228.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dee l Plott wrote: > > Hi, > Has anyone had any problems recently with grinder bits? I used to be > able to get alot of use out of mine. Now them don't seem to be lasting > any time at all. There doesn't seem to be as much diamond on them. I > have tried different brands due to this problem, seeing no real > difference. > > dee > studioone1@Juno.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Yes I agree. It can get spendy. My students use my grinder and I have to replace the bits alot sooner. Pass the cost on I guess. Jackie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 2 06:53:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:53:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nobleco.net!glass From: "Wallace, Paul" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: grinder bits Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:52:33 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun2.95233.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Hi, > > Has anyone had any problems recently with grinder bits? I used to be > > able to get alot of use out of mine. Now them don't seem to be lasting > > any time at all. There doesn't seem to be as much diamond on them. I > > have tried different brands due to this problem, seeing no real > > difference. > > > > dee > > studioone1@Juno.com > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Yes I agree. It can get spendy. My students use my grinder and I have > to replace the bits alot sooner. Pass the cost on I guess. > I noticed the same thing. About 6 months ago I bought a Double Diamond and a double bond bit that Our supplier was selling. I put one on each grinder the students were using. So far both have done very well. I think the Double Diamond is doing a little better though. They were a few dollard more than the standard bits but are well worth it in use. Paul ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 2 07:13:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 07:12:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: grinder bits Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 10:08:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun2.6856.0> References: <<1997Jun2.111228.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dee l Plott wrote: > > Hi, > Has anyone had any problems recently with grinder bits? I used to be > able to get alot of use out of mine. Now them don't seem to be lasting > any time at all. There doesn't seem to be as much diamond on them. I > have tried different brands due to this problem, seeing no real > difference. > > dee > studioone1@Juno.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass mine last for a year or two with near constant use. i always make sure there's enough water, i put in a little grinder coolant. and when it get's too dull move the tip around a notch to get to the sharper part. i also by inland, i just found it works the best. (the brass kind) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 2 10:29:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:28:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: hiline.net!rgvmuse From: Rio Grande Valley Museum To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: what a day Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 12:39:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun2.73954.0> References: <<1997Jun2.8932.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HiLine Internet Customer Precedence: bulk > Hilary and Maureen, You are so lucky! What's the scoop about the > session being taped. I was right - I have turned green with envy - please add me to list for tape. THANKS Linn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 2 12:17:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: vidio's good but the sound is very bad . Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun2.111634.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Even tho the sound is poor, I still think I would like to have a copy to see how he actually proceeds with the glass. That would be an education without the sound for me. I generally learn a lot more by watching than anything else. What do you think of the tape for this purpose. Is it still a good video? Bubstah@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 3 04:36:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 04:34:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "[unknown]" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: grinder bits Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:34:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun3.33436.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I, too, am running through grinder bits a lot faster than in the past. = I've been loyal to Inland standard and speed bits, but they seem to just poop out faster. I did try the new slip-on bits where you slip on grindi= ng sleeves over a brass core, but that was terrible and I ended up sending i= t back to the manufacturer. I was thinking of switching over to Mika bits = or Glastar bits. What's been the experiences of others with these or other manufacturers? =2E..Christie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 3 04:37:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 04:35:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: SOS to Australia,non-stained glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:33:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199706031134.MAA17001@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All, I have had about 7 or 8 replies within 12 hours from you magnificent people. I would just be my luck that Brisbane hosts a campus for 3 universities. Since my niece is studying Art ( theatre design) and music, I am inclined to put my bet on University of Quensland. She is sharing a house with some other students, but there is no answer on the phone. What I am initially trying to find out is a) if there is such a thing as a student counsellor there, b) if we can reach him/her (e-mail perhaps) c) if they have any means of reaching my niece and d) if my niece has gone down so far that she has dropped out of her course, e) if the company she keeps has got anything to do with what has happened and if not f) what frame of mind is she in. ...and of course, what we can do to help her... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 3 06:50:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 06:48:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: bending zinc Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:47:33 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun3.134733.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Joyce, We use the came bender a lot and have done some pretty tight curves with hard cames. I'm guessing that with 1/2" zinc came, the tightest radius you could get would be about 6 inches ....... I'm assuming that you're using the bench mounted type of came bender with the three rollers and the handcrank? I recently tried to use one of the newer hand held benders and was not impressed ..... it kinked the came too easily. I think it's easier to over bend the radius just a little with the bender, then gently stretch it back out to fit by hand ...... that's always seemed to work best for me. Good Luck, Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass At 12:54 AM 5/29/97 +0000, you wrote: >I just finished a new project for a client, and I thought I'd try something >new and different and use rounded edges for the corners. I have a came >bender and I used it, but I'm not real happy with the results. Anyone have >a short lesson on the in's and out's of bending 1/2" zinc? Two of the >corners came out just fine, the exact curve I needed, but the other two >came out with a microscopic difference in the curve causing a small piece >of the curve not covering the glass edge. I fussed and fussed with the >zinc for a long time, but still could not get that curve to be exactly what >I needed. Some help please!?! > >Garden of Glass >Joyce Moran > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 3 08:39:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!CALJAYNES From: CALJAYNES@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: grinder bits Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:38:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun3.73811.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glastar Bits have proven reliable and versatile for me. I just bought a 1/4" adapter and bit for a new grinder and am very pleased with the intricacy of the cuts. As long as you keep them cool and don't press too hard. Let the grinder and the weight of the glass themselves do the work. If you are causing the bit to slow down then you are pressing too hard. Good luck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 3 10:43:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:40:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: fowarded SOS to ArtMetal list Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 13:36:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun3.93654.0> References: <<199706012347.AAA15813@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Elisabeth, Just to cover one more base, I forworded your 2 messages to the ArtMetal list. (With permission, from Marilyn, the moderator). Hope this helps too, there are a lot of Metal Artists there too. You may hear from some of them. Lee: Copy below: leestat7 Organization: @Home Network To: mmsmith@si-net.com References: 1 mmsmith wrote: > > Don't appoligize for asking for help from the art metal group. My > daughter disappeared ten years ago. She went from Indiana to > California without telling any familly. She was 23 at the time. She > eventualy contacted us but she is still there and mentaly ill. If I > had access to the internet at that time, be sure that I would have > used it. It's so sad when the young ones make such long lasting > mistakes. > > Marilyn Smith Thank you, Marilyn, I will post the whole message, and one more from my friend in England. If there is anyone in the Metal group in Australia who can help, either e-mail me or Elisabeth. Thank you again Lee Boe > Dear Friends in Australia, > > A lot of you are lurking - I know. > I would be most appreciative of you getting in touch with me > off-group, especially if you live/work in or around Brisbane. > I need a little bit of help concerning a young family member who has > gone astray and is in serious trouble and who we possibly need to take some > action over here in UK to help. But we are very short on information generally. > At this point in time, nothing more than you just letting me know > that you are there and could possibly help me with a bit of > information-gathering on a non-commital basis. > > I apologise for "using" the Group and I apologise if I offend > anybody. > > Any links to the University in Brisbane, any dept of Arts or Music > would also perhaps be helpful. > My 21 year-old niece (by marriage) has become involved in heroin and we have one > distraught telephone conversation in the middle of the night to go by > and track her down by. We need to find her. All I know is that she is > a student at Brisbane University studying Arts & Music. > Can you help.....??? > Elisabeth 'n Toby > > Apologies once more...... > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- Here is the update: > Hi All, > I have had about 7 or 8 replies within 12 hours from you > magnificent people. > I would just be my luck that Brisbane hosts a campus for 3 > universities. Since my niece is studying Art ( theatre design) and music, I > am inclined to put my bet on University of Queensland. She is sharing > a house with some other students, but there is no answer on the > phone. What I am initially trying to find out is >a) if there is such a thing as a student counsellor there, >b) if we can reach him/her (e-mail perhaps) >c) if they have any means of reaching my niece and >d) if my niece has gone down so far that she has dropped out of her course, >e) if the company she keeps has got anything to do with what has happened and > if not >f) what frame of mind is she in. > ...and of course, what we can do to help her... > Elisabeth 'n Toby > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 3 10:49:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:46:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: bashful To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: grinder bits Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 13:44:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun3.64441.0> References: <<1997Jun3.73811.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Heretics United Precedence: bulk CALJAYNES@aol.com wrote: > As long as you keep them cool and don't press too hard. Let the > grinder and the weight of the glass themselves do the work. If you are > causing the bit to slow down then you are pressing too hard. FWIW, this is the best advice when using any power tool. You bought the tool to do the hard work. If you are working hard, then you are not using the tool correctly. I have the same bit, installed at the same height, on my machine for two years. No, I don't do production work, but I have my grinder and saw mounted on an expanded metal shelf that rests on the top of my double laundry sink. I keep the water level high, as the grinder has a capillary feed rather than sponges to keep the bit wet. The higher the water level, the more water pumped to the bit.This means the bit flings water all over, but having it over the sink keeps the floor dry. It also covers the ink lines, but I use metallic water proof pens. I also have a small aquarium air pump that blows air at the glass, making the ink line easier to see. I started using this idea when I bought my Gryphon saw. The saw seemed to be worse at visibility, cuz the water came from the top rather than the side, and seemed to contain more glass dust. The pump sits between the saw and grinder, and the air pump hose is attached to a clothes pin, and can be clamped where it points to the glass being cut or ground. I also home brew my own beer, and the air pump, with a food grade air stone, gets used to aerate the wort, so the yeasties get a healthy start at converting malt sugars to alcohol. Pretty handy device for about US$10. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 3 22:20:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Art Metal site------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 01:15:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun3.211545.0> References: <<1997May27.15716.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk I have gotten several inquiries about the Art Metal site and mailing list, so will post the site here. Info on signing up to their e-mail group is at this site. Since some of us 'cross over' in media you may enjoy it- Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creation ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 11:51:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Vafi5 From: Vafi5@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: grinder question Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun4.105055.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks a lot for the info.VAFI ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 11:51:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:50:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: telusplanet.net!dwightj From: telusplanet.net!dwightj To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: putty vs. silicone Date: Wed Jun 4 11:50:02 1997 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.9252.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I made several french doors for a funeral home. Because I only had three weeks to do them, I chose to use clear silicone in place of the putty(I cheated). As I assembled the pieces into the brass U and H came, I applied a very thin "line" of silicone into the channel. This not only held the glass in place, it saved hours of putting and cleanup. They were done about 18 months ago. The silicone remains intact and has set up very well. It dried clear. If you're ever in a bind for time, give it a try. The excess silicone cleaned up easily by just peeling it off and silicone remover. Has anyone ever had problems with this? Sincerely, Lorna e mail: dwightj@telusplanet.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 12:14:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:13:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: daver!telusplanet.net!dwightj@slonet.org Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun4.5734.0> References: <<1997Jun5.9252.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Lorna: Can you provide more information on using silicone instead of putty. Do I understand that you ran a bead of silicon in the brass channel and then put the glass in and let it dry? As opposed to putty which you normally do after you finish leading a panel. What you did sounds interesting but how did this save you time? Just curious. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 12:16:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:15:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: daver!telusplanet.net!dwightj@slonet.org Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun4.5959.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lorna: For some reason my reply doesn't recognize your e-mail address. On Wed, 4 Jun 1997, Peggy W. Johnsen wrote: > Dear Lorna: > > Can you provide more information on using silicone instead of putty. Do I > understand that you ran a bead of silicon in the brass channel and then > put the glass in and let it dry? As opposed to putty which you normally > do after you finish leading a panel. What you did sounds interesting but > how did this save you time? Just curious. Peggy > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 12:19:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:18:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun4.5139.0> References: <<1997Jun5.9252.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Lorna: I tried to send an e-mail to your address but I get it returned with host unrecognized. I was curious about your using silicon instead of putty. It sounds interesting, but how did it save you time? What type of windows did you make? You said you used brass chanel, what did you use to cover the solder. Tell us more. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 12:37:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 15:32:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun4.113233.0> References: <<1997Jun5.9252.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk daver!telusplanet.net!dwightj@home.net wrote: > > Hi everyone, I made several french doors for a funeral home. Because I > only had three weeks to do them, I chose to use clear silicone in place > of the putty(I cheated). As I assembled the pieces into the brass U and > H came, I applied a very thin "line" of silicone into the channel. This > not only held the glass in place, it saved hours of putting and > cleanup. They were done about 18 months ago. The silicone remains > intact and has set up very well. It dried clear. If you're ever in a > bind for time, give it a try. The excess silicone cleaned up easily by > just peeling it off and silicone remover. Has anyone ever had problems > with this? Sincerely, Lorna e mail: dwightj@telusplanet.net Hi Lorna, You just answered a question I had been wondering about, if one could use clear silicone in place of putty in some installations. Does it work for lead came too? I would like to hear if anyone else has experience doing it like this. The mess of putting has kept me from doing lead came work. It should work for inside installations, I think, and may be even better for some outside stuff. Let me know too. Thank You, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 12:49:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:48:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: putty vs. silicone Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:48:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun4.114811.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Lorna- My immediate reaction to using silicon instead of putty is that any repai= rs that might be needed in the future are going to be horrendous, if not impossible! This is a great example of "spill-over cost". In other word= s, the money and time saved today might have to be made up in a big way some= time in the future - If the funeral home ever needs a repair, they'll probably have to replace a door. = You also mention the silicone being a time-saver - how can that be if you= have to run a bead inside each piece of lead? We use the old-fashioned, home-made, gooey, black and smelly cement that you glop all over the pane= l, work into the grooves, then clean off with whiting. Yes, it's an incredible mess, but it's fast, it lasts, and you can repair the piece mu= ch more easily somewhere down the road if necessary. Want the recipe? Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 12:55:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:55:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Wed, 4 Jun 97 12:54:53 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1997Jun4.114811.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk silicone has a pretty strong acetic acid concentration in it. what does this acid do to the metals? granted it evaporates, but the part in contact with the metal does remain on for a couple days or so. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 13:31:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:31:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706042030.QAA08174@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lorna wrote, >Hi everyone, I made several french doors for a funeral home. Because I >only had three weeks to do them, I chose to use clear silicone in place >of the putty(I cheated). As I assembled the pieces into the brass U and >H came, I applied a very thin "line" of silicone into the channel. This >not only held the glass in place, it saved hours of putting and >cleanup. They were done about 18 months ago. The silicone remains >intact and has set up very well. It dried clear. If you're ever in a >bind for time, give it a try. The excess silicone cleaned up easily by >just peeling it off and silicone remover. Has anyone ever had problems >with this? Sincerely, Lorna e mail: dwightj@telusplanet.net Please do me and everyone a favor.......................................... group...this is not a recommended practice. And if you are in a bind? Ask for some more time!!!!! Art is not a process that should be hurried! I don't know how every taught you this process but they should be punished :). my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 13:49:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 13:48:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: smtplink.dis.anl.gov!lernerk From: "Ken Lerner" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Putty v. Silicone Date: Wed, 04 Jun 97 15:27:15 CST Message-ID: <9705048654.AA865464341@smtplink.dis.anl.gov> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Regarding using silicone sealant in place of traditional cement or putty -- I would think that it is probably a good material for the job, in the sense that it will last quite a long time, seal the channel, hold the glass, and always retain a little "give" (flexibility). For doors, I assume you used a material designed for exterior use. Doesn't have the time tested aspect of the traditional materials, but as I recall, those sealants usually have a warranty extending to a few decades -- they are pretty tough, inert materials. On the other hand, I would think the time saving aspect would depend very much on the number of pieces in your door or window. The beauty of the regular cement is that you just glop it on and spread it around, it doesn't matter how many pieces and joints there are. Yes, it does make a mess. But squeezing the silicone into the joints around 50 pieces of glass (on both sides) sounds like headache material to me. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 14:54:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:53:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Putty vs. silicone Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:53:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun4.135312.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All - Charles ask that we post our cement recipe so here it is: 1 part portland cement* 2 parts Plaster of Paris 4 parts whiting 1 part linseed oil 1 1/2- 2 parts mineral spirits or turpentine lamp black or other "cement" colors (alkali proof) = A "part" can be any measure - we use 1/2 cup portions. At this proportio= n, use about two Tbsp. of color. We usually use black, but some might rathe= r use yellow ochre for brass channel. *We've read articles that inclusion of portland cement is of questionable= worth, but Mike learned to make cement this way 20+ years ago and has bee= n making it that way ever since. Any opinions? After making cement, apply to your panel working the goo into the channel= s. Then dust with whiting and clean off the goo with a palmetto brush (this= is the best part, because this is where the lead takes on a really beautiful burnish). Save your leftover, dirty whiting from this stage to= make your next batch of cement. Be sure to sift it first. Leave the panels sit overnight for the cement to set-up. Then detail in the mornin= g where the cement has settled and oozed a bit in the corners. This technique is dirty and hard work, but fast and worth every ounce of energy when you see the end result. The only time it's not a good idea i= s when your triple-glazing (sandwiching) which we avoid whenever possible. Any better ideas or additions to this are welcome. Best regards, Dani Greer P.S. pj, I don't think you should hold back - tell us how you REALLLY fe= el about silicone;-)!! Guess you've had a few of those repair jobs, huh? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 15:31:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:30:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: cyberramp.net!byronw From: byronw@cyberramp.net To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Supplies Pricing Question Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:33:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199706042230.RAA12822@mailhost.cyberramp.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all.... Thanks to those that responded to my fume question a weeks or so ago..... I'll be ordering a Fume Trap and a HEPA/VOC filter for my new glass room... New question... I'm just starting to take this from being a hobby to being a parttime business.... I've got a seperate tel line and cards are on the way etc... The question I have is are wholesalers such as Houston Stained Glass Supply much or any cheaper that Warner-Crivellaro's prices?? Unless you have a sales tax number and a note from yer priest the wholesalers wont tell you ANY price info at all... Also they all want a large $$ 1st order... Starting off small I'm not sure I wanna go the 'legal' route with all the hassles and such that go with it....If however these wholesalers ARE real cheap then I would me more inclined to get the tax # etc....WC sure has some nice prices tho... Thanks in advance for any info! Byron.... Wells Glass Works ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 16:04:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:03:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: fast.net!charles From: Charles To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Putty vs. silicone Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 18:53:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun4.145350.0> References: <<1997Jun4.135312.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > making it that way ever since. Any opinions? Yes > > After making cement, apply to your panel working the goo into the channels > Then dust with whiting I never understood why anyone would use whiting. It has a high markup and we sell it. However I recommend using various grades of sawdust. Coarse for the first cleanup and very fine for the second or final. This works better, does not leave a white line around the pieces and makes less of a mess than whiting does. Charles Warner Warner-Crivellaro http://www.warner-criv.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 16:39:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:39:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: pobox.alaska.net!wildewk From: Dick Sullivan To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Mirror sealing Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 15:37:50 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun4.93750.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: WILDEWORKS Precedence: bulk Hi Gang I'm using mirrors for a base of some glass projects I'm doing. I am wondering what I can use to protect the mirrors from scratching, something like wax or shellac??? Can anyone help me?? Dick Sullivan rsully@alaska.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 16:51:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:51:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 19:47:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun4.154744.0> References: <<1997Jun4.93750.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dick Sullivan wrote: > > Hi Gang > > I'm using mirrors for a base of some glass projects I'm doing. > I am wondering what I can use to protect the mirrors from scratching, > something like wax or shellac??? > Can anyone help me?? > > Dick Sullivan > rsully@alaska.net > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass first you'll want to seal the edges with a mirror sealent, nail polish, or spray polyurethane. what i usally do at the end of a project is to put little feet on it. like cork, rubber, felt, etc. that should kep it high enough up to prevent scratching. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 17:20:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@BUNGI.COM" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Supplies Pricing Question Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:17:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun4.161730.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Byron- You'll need more than a note from the priest to buy wholesale - how about= dispensation from the Pope! I don't know any way to get around minimum requirements except invoices from another wholesaler proving you're reall= y a business and buy in larger quantity - some even require you have a storefront. I don't know about W-C's prices, but in Colorado retail pric= es are sky-high compared to our wholesaler. Were I in your shoes, I'd do this: Hold off on the wholesale route until you make your first couple thousand in a month in part-time glass work. Then you've probably built = up enough business to justify spending half of it on materials inventory. D= o all the other "legal" stuff, though - sales tax license and returns, business cards, separate checking, etc. It'll get you into a professiona= l mindset and on the road to a full-time glass business alot sooner. Good luck. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 17:46:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:46:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@BUNGI.COM" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Putty vs. silicone Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:45:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun4.164551.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Charles- What do you use instead of whiting in the cement itself? The whiting I u= se to clean-up the cement isn't wasted - it's sifted and used in the next batch of cement. Sawdust is good, too, and since we make our own frames and moldings for installation, we have a good supply of that. It just go= es in the dumpster after use, though. As far as price on whiting? We buy wholesale so it seems pretty cheap to me. Yes, it is a mess... but, isn't= the mess half the fun of being an artist?;-) Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 18:18:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:17:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: pobox.alaska.net!wildewk From: Dick Sullivan To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------00FC7696D89B5AE5D55EEB82" Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 17:16:41 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun4.111641.0> References: <<1997Jun4.154744.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: WILDEWORKS Precedence: bulk --------------00FC7696D89B5AE5D55EEB82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit M. Savad wrote: > Dick Sullivan wrote: > > > > Hi Gang > > > > I'm using mirrors for a base of some glass projects I'm doing. > > > I am wondering what I can use to protect the mirrors from > scratching, > > something like wax or shellac??? > > Can anyone help me?? > > > > Dick Sullivan > > rsully@alaska.net > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > first you'll want to seal the edges with a mirror sealent, nail > polish, > or spray polyurethane. what i usally do at the end of a project is to > put little feet on it. like cork, rubber, felt, etc. that should kep > it > high enough up to prevent scratching. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: > - New Instructional Guides Added!!! > - The Creative Process > - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers > - Picking Out Glass in the Store > - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory > - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory > - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Thanks Mike for the come back, but what I ment was scratches on the surface of the mirror (from dust, finger marks , or rough cloths) Dick Sullivan rsully@akasja.net --------------00FC7696D89B5AE5D55EEB82 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit M. Savad wrote:
Dick Sullivan wrote:
>
> Hi Gang
>
>       I'm using mirrors for a base of some glass projects I'm doing.
> I am wondering what I can use to protect the mirrors from scratching,
> something like wax or shellac???
>       Can anyone help me??
>
>     Dick Sullivan
>     rsully@alaska.net
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

first you'll want to seal the edges with a mirror sealent, nail polish,
or spray polyurethane. what i usally do at the end of a project is to
put little feet on it. like cork, rubber, felt, etc. that should kep it
high enough up to prevent scratching.

---Mike Savad

--
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
 New Pages Added:
 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

 Thanks Mike for the come back, but what I ment was scratches on the surface of the mirror (from dust, finger marks , or rough cloths)
Dick Sullivan
rsully@akasja.net --------------00FC7696D89B5AE5D55EEB82-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 18:37:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:37:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 21:33:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun4.173337.0> References: <<1997Jun4.111641.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dick Sullivan wrote: > > M. Savad wrote: > > Dick Sullivan wrote: > > > > Hi Gang > > > > I'm using mirrors for a base of some glass projects > I'm doing. > > I am wondering what I can use to protect the mirrors from > scratching, > > something like wax or shellac??? > > Can anyone help me?? > > > > Dick Sullivan > > rsully@alaska.net > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: > glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > first you'll want to seal the edges with a mirror sealent, > nail polish, > or spray polyurethane. what i usally do at the end of a > project is to > put little feet on it. like cork, rubber, felt, etc. that > should kep it > high enough up to prevent scratching. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: > - New Instructional Guides Added!!! > - The Creative Process > - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers > - Picking Out Glass in the Store > - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory > - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory > - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese > Garden > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: > glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Thanks Mike for the come back, but what I ment was scratches on the > surface of the mirror (from dust, finger marks , or rough cloths) > Dick Sullivan > rsully@akasja.net well in that case there's not much you can do except maybe putting a clear coat or some kind of plastic over the mirror. however the mirror wuold reflect any bubbles in the clear coat, and plastic tends to have a blue tinge too it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 20:51:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:50:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar From: KrissyMar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Fwd: Freebies from Spectrum Glass Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun4.19508.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thought I would share this with you all. Krissy --------------------- Forwarded message: From: artglass@spectrumglass.com To: artglass@spectrumglass.com Date: 97-05-31 12:28:19 EDT Dear Friend: We thought you'd like to know that Spectrum's 1997 Poster issue is off the press and available at no charge for a limited time. It's a beautiful illustration by Raphael Schnepf of Savoy Studios, depicting hot molten glass pouring over a dark precipice and flooding into a heavenly rainbow of color. Pay a visit to http://www.SpectrumGlass.com and check it out. Then fill out the form for your free 18 x 24-inch full color poster. Thanks! Jim Matthews artglass@SpectrumGlass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 4 21:30:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:30:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 00:26:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun4.202644.0> References: <<199706042030.QAA08174@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi pj, Just wondering why???Is it just tradition?? Good quality exterior grade silicone was certainly not available 50-even 25 years ago. And I'm not asking about large public or chuch type stained leaded glasss installations, but perhaps a small side light on an entry door (private residence) or leaded kitchen cabinet doors, or a free hanging small leaded panel??? It would not be much harder to repair (say a piece of glass got broken) than trying to get one piece out of a copper foil project...... I just did this BTW, the 20 x 34 inch panel I almost finished yesterday, had one piece crack just as I was doing the finish soldering (@%%$*%$$&^(^%^$#@) you get the idea. Well picking out the broken piece, & foil, so as not to disturb the rest was my this morning chore. Success, now tonight I am finish soldering again. Fingers and toes crossed of course :-) There are some designs I'd like to do in lead came (few glass pieces) but have not in my small home studio because of the mess. So if this is possible, why not???? I really am curious,and want to learn, not wanting to start a big debate. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations pj friend wrote: > > Lorna wrote, > >Hi everyone, I made several french doors for a funeral home. Because I > >only had three weeks to do them, I chose to use clear silicone in place > >of the putty(I cheated). As I assembled the pieces into the brass U and > >H came, I applied a very thin "line" of silicone into the channel. <<<>> > Please do me and everyone a favor.......................................... > group...this is not a recommended practice. And if you are in a bind? Ask > for some more time!!!!! Art is not a process that should be hurried! I > don't know how every taught you this process but they should be punished :). > > my best, > pj > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 00:10:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:09:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: hawk.rmplc.co.uk!mdcglas From: Phil Speedwell To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 97 08:10:41 +0100 Message-ID: <199706050708.HAA29425@mx0.rmplc.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >lorna wrote >Hi everyone, I made several french doors for a funeral home. Because I >only had three weeks to do them, I chose to use clear silicone in place >of the putty(I cheated). As I assembled the pieces into the brass U and >H came, I applied a very thin "line" of silicone into the channel. This >not only held the glass in place, it saved hours of putting and >cleanup. They were done about 18 months ago. The silicone remains >intact and has set up very well. It dried clear. If you're ever in a >bind for time, give it a try. The excess silicone cleaned up easily by >just peeling it off and silicone remover. Has anyone ever had problems >with this? My only thought on this is that putty / lead cement sets hard and gives a rigidity to the window whereas silicone remains flexable I would think in a large window this would cause a problem with sagging even if the window was re-inforced, having said that I work with lead came not brass, is brass came inherantly more rigid to begin with? Phil ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 04:42:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 04:41:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: fast.net!charles From: Charles To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 07:32:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.33233.0> References: <<1997Jun4.164551.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer wrote: > What do you use instead of whiting in the cement itself? Sorry I wasn't explicit. I skipped over the recipe, since the premixed Inland cement is so easy to use, store and eliminates the need to keep a bunch of items on hand. I meant sawdust in the cleanup. After brushing off most of the goo I sprinkled coarse sawdust, scrubbed the panel. sometimes repeat that then sprinkle very fine sawdust and polish the panel, just like polishing shoes. Of course changing brushes between each step. Usually the panels would be more polished than my shoes! > Yes, it is a mess... but, isn't > the mess half the fun of being an artist?;-) Doesn't mess come before marital bliss? In the old days if glass broke in a non salvageable way I would see how far it could be pitched like a frisbee... no more. My wife's studio was the first one I saw that had carpet (hint). Charles Warner ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 05:27:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 05:26:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@BUNGI.COM" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Supplies Pricing Question Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:25:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.42547.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello there! I'm in the Philadelphia area, and just went "full-time" stained glass business last year. I can tell you that going wholesale purchasing is quite a reduction in prices versus retail purchases. But y= ou have to add in shipping costs as well, remember. Plus, as you mentioned,= you do have to place a significant 1st order (usually between $300-$500) = so that the wholesaler/distributor knows that you are serious and legit. I purchase wholesale from three suppliers: Studio Design/Rainbow Glass out = of Mill, NJ (which is on the NJ shore and about 1 1/2 hour drive from my house); Adventure Art Glass out of Utica, MI; and Glass Crafters out of Sarasota, FL. They all ship UPS 2 day delivery. Adventure Art Glass and= Glass Crafters do not ship glass, but have excellent prices for supplies.= = Studio Design/Rainbow Glass does ship glass sheets as well as supplies. = I also still shop occassionally at Warner-C in Allentown, but mostly for items the others do not have in stock, or for 'emergency' purchases. For the best single place of information about suppliers, wholesalers, distributors, manufacturers and retailers is the International Guild of Glass Artists' "Sources Guide" in the current issue of "Common Ground" magazine. If you can, go to our (I'm on the Board of Directors) web home= page at www.bungi.com/glass/igga and look up the current issue of "Common= Ground." If you need more information, you can send me a private email a= nd I'll be happy to help. =2E..Christie Wood, Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 05:32:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 05:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar From: KrissyMar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Tiffany exhibits in D.C. Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun5.43157.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk St. Georges Epispocial church In Fredericksburg, VA has 2 or 3 Tiffany Windows. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 05:53:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 05:53:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar From: KrissyMar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Fwd: SBC Warburg Presents Final Design for its Public Art Project in Stamford Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun5.45256.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thought you might be interested in this..... The art is alive & growing in popularity. --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: SBC Warburg Presents Final Design for its Public Art Project in Stamford Date: 97-06-02 17:33:35 EDT From: AOL News World Renowned Stained Glass Artist Brian Clarke Lectures on Freestanding Sculpture for SBC Warburg's Gateway Commons Park SBC Underwrites Video Project With Fairfield University Visual Arts Department STAMFORD, Conn., June 2 /PRNewswire/ -- SBC Warburg and artist Brian Clarke today unveiled the final design for the stained glass "Stamford Cone" structure at a community reception held at Stamford's Rich Forum. As was previously announced, SBC Warburg has commissioned Brian Clarke to create a unique, freestanding stained glass cone for its new corporate complex in Stamford. The Stamford Cone will stand in SBC Warburg's Gateway Commons Park, near the corner of North State Street and Washington Boulevard. It will be erected later this year. The structure of the Cone will be made entirely from glass and will be clearly visible form Interstate I-95 and the Stamford Transportation Center. Standing 50 feet tall, with a 20-foot diameter base, the Cone will be among the largest freestanding all-glass structures in the world. By day, the inside of the Cone will be accessible to the public. The Cone will be illuminated from the inside at night to act as a beacon to the Gateway District of Stamford. "Art, in combination with architecture, has an almost limitless power to lift the spirits," said Brian Clarke today. "I derive enormous pleasure from the kind of optimism it's possible to generate this way, and I hope the Cone, when it's finished, will have that kind of effect on the city of Stamford," Clarke continued. According to Simon Canning, Chief Executive Officer, SBC Warburg Inc., "SBC Warburg is proud and delighted to make this contribution to public art for the community to enjoy in the years to come. Brian Clarke, one of the world's leading architectural artists, will create an outstanding piece of art which will be featured in a unique setting, instantly recognizable from a distance. This is an extremely complementary addition to SBC Warburg's new home in the city." In addition, SBC Warburg announced today that it has awarded a $25,000 grant to the Visual Arts Department of Fairfield University to underwrite a student-produced video about the Cone. The funds will be used specifically to videotape the progression of the fabrication of the Cone and its installation. The Cone is being designed in the United Kingdom and the stained glass will be fabricated in Munich, Germany. It will be shipped to Stamford in panels and assembled at the site this Fall. British artist Brian Clarke is internationally renowned for his innovative, large-scale stained glass works. His projects include an array of stained glass skylights in Brazil; new windows for a 14th Century abbey in Romont, Switzerland; the spectacular stage sets for Paul McCartney's 1989 and 1993 world tours; and the 570 sq. meters of stained glass and mosaic for the world headquarters of Pfizer Inc in New York City. SBC Warburg SBC Warburg, a Division of Swiss Bank Corporation, was created in July 1995 by the combination of Swiss Bank Corporation's International & Finance Division with the investment banking business of the S.G. Warburg Group. The integration in the U.S. was completed on June 3, 1996, when SBC received approval from the Federal Reserve Board to proceed with the formation of SBC Warburg Inc., in the United States. While SBC Warburg's origins and culture are European, the orientation is truly global with a strong presence in The Americas and Asia Pacific. SBC Warburg employs around 10,000 people in over 40 countries around the world. The division is organized into four principal businesses: corporate finance, equities, rates, and foreign exchange (forex), along with a series of support functions and complementary business activities. Global institutional asset management is conducted by SBC Brinson, a Division of Swiss Bank Corp. Swiss Bank Corporation began its U.S. operations in New York City in 1939. The bank now employs more than 2,200 people in the U.S. and is one of the largest foreign banks in the U.S. SBC and its U.S. affiliates have offices in Boston, Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles, Houston, Philadelphia, and San Francisco. On May 16, it announced its intention to acquire Dillon, Read & Co. Inc. CO: SBC Warburg; Swiss Bank Corporation ST: Connecticut IN: FIN ARO SU: To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles. For all of today's news, go to keyword News. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 06:31:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 06:31:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.computer.net!jsloan From: "Julie L. Sloan" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:23:32 +0000 Message-ID: <199706051330.JAA13035@mail.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Re: Using portland cement in putty: the problem with portland is that if the window ever needs to be repaired, the portland will never come off the glass, and you'll destroy the lead to get the glass out. Portland's adhesive qualities make an ideal cement, but a nightmare for future work. An additional problem is that it becomes so hard that bulges can be set literally in the cement. Sure, it's been used for a long time -- the earliest recipes I've found that include it are from around 1920. But I've also seen windows by studios like Connick and Willet that bowed many years ago and are literally frozen into that position. No one could flatten them without extreme glass breakage, and you couldn't take them apart either. Plaster is also not a good material for putty because it reacts with water. I've seen many windows that develop a bloom around the edges of the caming -- it's the plaster leaching out. Whiting is inert, it won't mix with water. Substitute whiting for the plaster and the portland. Julie L. Sloan, President McKernan Satterlee Associates, Inc. Tonetta Lake Rd., Brewster, NY 10509 (914) 278-2187; Fax (914) 278-2481 Website http://www.jlsloan.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 07:37:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:36:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:31:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706051431.JAA22699@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Way to go pj, isn't it just a little naive for you all to believe that this method hasn't been thought of by people smarter then you or I, 10,000 times and rejected 10,001 times. Just forget it and use cement there are at least 10 good reasons why. Len > >Please do me and everyone a favor.......................................... >group...this is not a recommended practice. And if you are in a bind? Ask >for some more time!!!!! Art is not a process that should be hurried! I >don't know how every taught you this process but they should be punished :). > > >my best, >pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 07:37:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:31:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706051431.JAA22690@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk A> >1 part portland cement* >2 parts Plaster of Paris >4 parts whiting >1 part linseed oil >1 1/2- 2 parts mineral spirits or turpentine >lamp black or other "cement" colors (alkali proof) > >*We've read articles that inclusion of portland cement is of questionable= > >worth, but Mike learned to make cement this way 20+ years ago and has bee= >n >making it that way ever since. Any opinions? there are probably as many recipies for cement (putty, mud) as there are for chocolate chip cookies and of course everyone has their favorite portland cement has been discontinued as a cement ingredient by many studios because of its damaging corrosive effect. The research has been done, its in the literature. linseed oil.. an essential ingredient, I use boiled linseed oil, it dries better instead of mixing all those powders together I use a commercial putty that does not contain vegetable oil and then add thinners, colorant and driers, including a small amount of japan drier Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 07:37:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:31:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706051431.JAA22694@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >My only thought on this is that putty / lead cement sets hard and gives a >rigidity to the window whereas silicone remains flexable I would think in >a large window this would cause a problem with sagging even if the window >was re-inforced, having said that I work with lead came not brass, is >brass came inherantly more rigid to begin with? > >Phil Brass and brass crowned came is significantly more rigid then lead . Most commercial panels you see are not mudded or braced at all probably one the reasons its used in the cheapo import stuff you see at the discount building centers. Bungi has had some mighty discussions about brass came, check the archives. I was amazed when I built a large panel, 6 foot base half circle, how amazingly stiff it was I did not brace or cement it either. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 07:37:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:36:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:31:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706051431.JAA22696@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 06:53 PM 6/4/97 -0400, Charles wrote: >> making it that way ever since. Any opinions? > >Yes >> >> After making cement, apply to your panel working the goo into the channels >> Then dust with whiting > >I never understood why anyone would use whiting. It has a high markup >and we sell it. However I recommend using various grades of sawdust. >Coarse for the first cleanup and very fine for the second or final. >This works better, does not leave a white line around the pieces and >makes less of a mess than whiting does. > >Charles Warner I think its just one of those traditional methods that just won't go away. I've never used it or care for the look it imparts. Studios as well as individuals are idiosyncratic, good thing otherwise these threads would never be Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 07:49:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tiffany exhibits in D.C. Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:45:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.6456.0> References: <<1997Jun5.43157.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I think the Morse museum in orlando florida has a large exhibit of tiffany lamps and windows. as i understand it, alot of it came from tiffany's burned down home laurelton hall. tiffany's daughter told them to take what they wanted, because otherwise it would have been thrown out. here's their page: http://www.goflorida.com/central/orlando/see/museum/morse.html ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 08:40:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:40:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: stoneweb.com!john.hegarty From: john.hegarty@stoneweb.com To: Subject: Kaleidoscope Dimensions Date: Thu, 5 Jun 97 11:41:13 EDT Message-ID: <1997Jun5.154113.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Can anyone share with me the dimensions for making a TWO MIRROR Kaleidoscope; I would like the outside glass dimensions and the inside mirror dimensions including the required width for the 'dummy' black piece. Thanx in advance John H. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 09:28:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 12:31:49 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970605123149.006ecf88@pop.bridge.net> References: <<199706051431.JAA22699@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len suggested: >Just forget it and use cement there are at least >10 good reasons why. Surely you aren't suggesting it isn't worth asking what the 10 good reasons might be. I happen to believe silicone is *not* the way to go, but I also am certain that if I don't make the effort to learn why some things work and some things don't, I won't ever help find a new, better way to do things. Just as in cooking, if I don't know when to use flour for thickening instead of corn starch, I might not ever figure out when eggs would be even better. Please tell me why, why, why. Knowledge is so important to innovation! Of course, opinion is another thing altogether, and that's just mine. :D Cheers, M.-J. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 11:43:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:42:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:41:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706051841.NAA04852@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 12:31 PM 6/5/97 -0400, M.-J. Taylor wrote: >Len suggested: >>Just forget it and use cement there are at least >>10 good reasons why. > >Surely you aren't suggesting it isn't worth asking what the 10 good reasons >might be. > >I happen to believe silicone is *not* the way to go, but I also am certain >that if I don't make the effort to learn why some things work and some >things don't, I won't ever help find a new, better way to do things. > >Just as in cooking, if I don't know when to use flour for thickening >instead of corn starch, I might not ever figure out when eggs would be even >better. > >Please tell me why, why, why. Knowledge is so important to innovation! > >Of course, opinion is another thing altogether, and that's just mine. > 1 stiffens 2 waterproofs 3 helps cushion 4 levels.. as in thin antique next to ripple 5 fills in minor imperfections at solder joints 6 prevents light refraction where glass is fitted into came 7 burnishes and polishes lead 8 blends solder joints with lead Oh Oh maybe I should not have so quick on the trigger with that number... it was actually figurative and rhetorical ;-) Hmm... 9 fills in major imperfections... glass stretcher ;-) 10 lets you find out if that new kid you hired really wants to apprentice.. like in will he/she not quit after spending 6 months in the mud room :-) I hope I missed a few Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 12:14:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:10:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:10:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.101041.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Julie and Len- Thanks for the tips - we'll start experimenting. We haven't experienced the problems Julie mentions, especially not with "bloom", but that could = be a result of our very arid climate. Heck, it's a challenge getting a plan= t to bloom here! I doubt if we would need japan drier either, as you mentioned, Len. As far as mixing our own cement, instead of buying "store-bought" - I think it goes beyond habit. It's part of the creative process, like maki= ng your own tools. Or baking your own bread. You're that much more involve= d with the final product - there's more of the artist in the finished piece= =2E = Probably sounds like a bunch of hooey to some folks!;-) Oh, well. Charles, I have carpet in the studio, too, and it looks like a Jackson Pollock nightmare! We paint and sculpt in our "spare" time. I don't worr= y much about what it looks like. The Perfect Studio will have heated tiles= =2E = Glass shards in the carpet can be a bit of a problem. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 12:16:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:15:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts From: Melanie Dunstan To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Supplies Pricing Question Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 02:19:24 +0800 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.101924.0> References: <<1997Jun4.161730.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer wrote: > > I don't know any way to get around minimum > requirements except invoices from another wholesaler proving you're really > a business and buy in larger quantity - some even require you have a > storefront. ------------- Hi my name is Melanie Dunstan and usually I just lurk on this list. However these replies remind me of some on the 'soap' list I'm subscribed to (don't ask - I just love lots of different crafts...) Anyway the point is that lots of semi-professional soapmakers band together and make the minimums for a wholesale order (they call it a co-op) and then split up the supplies. It wouldn't be an easy thing to set up, but it would be easier than forking out all that money to make a minimum order of stuff you'd take half a lifetime to use. It makes sense for the members of the co-op to be located near each other (particularly when bulky supplies are ordered) in order to minimise freight costs, and everyone needs to be scrupulous about payment and actually taking the goods they have ordered, regardless of their circumstances, so that the co-op organiser doesn't get left with stuff on their hands. Obviously the rules could be fine-tuned to suit the members and the goods in question, but it might work in your situation. Regards Melanie Dunstan in Perth, Australia, where it's Winter in June ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 13:45:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:45:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bcpl.lib.md.us!panthony From: The Anthonys To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Subject: Re: Putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:44:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.124412.0> References: <<1997Jun4.135312.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Bunginians, Reason #11: there is a person on the usenet newsgroup rec.crafts.glass who is asking how to get siliconed windows out of their frames. Apparently it's super-silicone and impossible to cut. --SB ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 14:52:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:52:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!RThaxton From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:21:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.32131.0> References: <<1997Jun4.93750.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dick Sullivan wrote: > > Hi Gang > > I'm using mirrors for a base of some glass projects I'm doing. > I am wondering what I can use to protect the mirrors from scratching, > something like wax or shellac??? > Can anyone help me?? > > Dick Sullivan > rsully@alaska.net > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I have found that contact paper works well on the front although I have never tried this on the back. I also have heard that coating the back with polyeurathane will help it not separate...I have never done this. I suggest you try it on a small piece and see. I don't know if soldering around it would catch fire tho. good luck, Melissa ( Hind sight is better to have before hand ) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 14:53:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:52:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Supplies Pricing Question Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:51:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706052151.QAA13507@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 02:19 AM 6/6/97 +0800, Melanie Dunstan wrote: >Michael J. Greer wrote: >> >> I don't know any way to get around minimum >> requirements except invoices from another wholesaler proving you're really >> a business and buy in larger quantity - some even require you have a >> storefront. >------------- >Hi my name is Melanie Dunstan and usually I just lurk on this list. >However these replies remind me of some on the 'soap' list I'm >subscribed to (don't ask - I just love lots of different crafts...) > >Anyway the point is that lots of semi-professional soapmakers band >together and make the minimums for a wholesale order (they call it a >co-op) and then split up the supplies. I have though about this myself since I recently quit business and I'll probably loose my wholesale account eventually. How can this work for bunginians? I can see it work if someone with a wlse. account was able to process the individual orders placed at regular intervals say once every 2 weeks, call in the order and have the distibutor ship portions of the orders to different *ship to* addresses or have the order shipped to one person and then redistributed Would wholesalers go for anything like that? Would someone do this out of the goodness of their heart? if not what percentage would have to be added on to make it worthwhile? There is alot of *buying power* on bungi among listees without wholesale accounts. Nothing against the retailers out there I know it costs money to run a shop and everyone is just trying to make a living, but some of the markups are a little much. Unfortunately the item that everyone wants a good price on the most is glass and that would be the most difficult to deal with. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 15:27:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:27:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: microsoft.com!a-bdenz From: "Barbara Denz (S&T Onsite)" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Restoration work Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:27:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.82732.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I work in both lead and copper foil and the current project is the VERY early stages of restoring a 1890s glass rescued from the quake in Santa Cruz. I need help on working with historical glass restoration and the preservation people I was referred to refuse to return my calls. What I need is: * Is there a current standard for supporting glass is quake areas (the window has two 1/4" metal rebars that hook into the window frame and are soldered to the window's lead came) * Is there a good solution for cleaning 100-yr old grout off glass? * Is there a standard for dealing with historical glass? If so, how does one get hold of it? Please email me at bdenz@silverlink.net (I'm writing from work) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 16:47:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:45:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts From: Melanie Dunstan To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Supplies Pricing Question; Co-op Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 07:34:49 +0800 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.153449.0> References: <<199706052151.QAA13507@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services Precedence: bulk >From Len: > How can this work for bunginians? > I had glass in mind when I wrote this post. The idea would be to have several people who are roughly within the same location banding together to make 1 w/s minimum order purchase which would then be delivered to 1 address by the manufacturer or distributor. The members of the co-op would then go to that location, pick up their own sub-order and be responsible for getting it back to their own studios. In this way the wholesalers would not be involved; Len is right when he surmises they wouldn't want to do shipments of sub-orders to different addresses - that's one of the major reasons for having a minimum order in the first place.... speaking as a wholesaler (although not of glass) it's *much* less work to ship one large 100Kg order to one destination, than to ship 10 small orders totalling up to 100Kg - makes sense, eh. For those who would be unable to pick up their own sub-orders - and I'm assuming most Bungians are based in USA and I don't know how glass is transported there. In Australia we have vans that have an 'A' frame on the back, and the glass is strapped to that for transportation around the city. If you have such creatures, it isn't beyond the bounds of possibility to either hire one yourself 'after hours', or hire it and the driver, to make the deliveries to the individual studios from the central location - the driver being (presumably) experienced with glass handling and transportation... > There is alot of *buying power* on bungi among listees without wholesale > accounts. Well, there you go then. > Unfortunately the item that everyone wants a good price on the most is glass > and that would be the most difficult to deal with. Even though it looks like a big can of worms, it may be worth giving it a go in order to benefit from the reduced prices a w/s order can bring.If you do your sums first, and find out who would be interested, then you have a reasonably sound basis for evaluation - Good Luck! Regards from Melanie Dunstan, on a freezing Winter morning ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 16:48:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:45:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts From: Melanie Dunstan To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 07:40:19 +0800 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.154019.0> References: <<1997Jun5.32131.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services Precedence: bulk RThaxton@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > Dick Sullivan wrote: > > Hi Gang > > I'm using mirrors for a base of some glass projects I'm doing. > I am wondering what I can use to protect the mirrors from scratching, > something like wax or shellac??? > Can anyone help me?? > > Dick Sullivan > rsully@alaska.net > > ---- Bought a watch recently, and a circle of clear plastic was sitting on the front of the face to protect it. The plastic clung (clang? clinged?) all by itself - there was no adhesive involved. *But - it wasn't your average plastic - ie not freezer bag, plastic bag quality; it had a thickness and a luxurious resiliency, almost as if it stretched slightly - that made you want to keep holding it and bending it around in your fingers. Maybe someone would be able to suggest what kind of plastic it is - but every time I put it back on the watch face, it clung again, and peeled off just as easily as the first time. Regards Melanie Dunstan in cold and wintry Perth ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 17:40:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:38:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 20:17:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.161757.0> References: <<1997Jun6.154019.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Melanie Dunstan wrote: > > > > > I'm using mirrors for a base of some glass projects I'm doing. > > I am wondering what I can use to protect the mirrors from scratching, > > something like wax or shellac??? > > Can anyone help me?? > > > > Dick Sullivan > > rsully@alaska.net > > > > ---- > Bought a watch recently, and a circle of clear plastic was sitting on > the front of the face to protect it. The plastic clung (clang? clinged?) > all by itself - there was no adhesive involved. *But - it wasn't your > average plastic - ie not freezer bag, plastic bag quality; it had a > thickness and a luxurious resiliency, almost as if it stretched slightly > - that made you want to keep holding it and bending it around in your > fingers. Maybe someone would be able to suggest what kind of plastic it > is - but every time I put it back on the watch face, it clung again, and > peeled off just as easily as the first time. > > Regards Melanie Dunstan in cold and wintry Perth Hi Melanie, I have found this type of material in products called (Window Clings) in craft stores (Craft Depot, Joann's), Home Depot, and also in Wall-Mart, They are made to cling to (Mainly) sliding glass doors to keep people from walking into them. You may find a supplier of the raw material, but if you just need a small amount, get the 'Window Clings' and cut them. Since you brought this up, it is a great idea to keep the mirror (top) surface of the class from scratching while you assemble a , (Jewelry box, candle holder, wall mirror with over lay, etc.) I got some butterfly cling to keep my birds from flying into my sliding glass doors. The are reusable for quite a while. Good luck. Hope you are not too cold there. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 18:00:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:56:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 20:52:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.165249.0> References: <<1997Jun5.124412.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi, Have good sucess with Silicone in display cases, and aquariums. The way to remove it is with a hobby knife, utility knife, with the break off tips. Blade must be super sharp. Wear metal mesh gloves like for rubber mold cutting (Jewelry supply, or grocery warehouse {meat cutters gloves}) Residue removes with the solvents, there is some made just for silicone, and that works pretty good. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations The Anthonys wrote: > > Bunginians, > Reason #11: there is a person on the usenet newsgroup rec.crafts.glass > who is asking how to get siliconed windows out of their frames. > Apparently it's super-silicone and impossible to cut. > --SB ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 18:00:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:58:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 20:55:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.16550.0> References: <<199706051841.NAA04852@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Len, Finally reasons instead of rote. Thank You. Further questions using your list, > 1 stiffens Using 'Strongline in the lead came would take care of this on small projects, and wood framing on the free hanging panel. > 2 waterproofs Silicone would do as well I think. > 3 helps cushion So would Silicone > 4 levels.. as in thin antique next to ripple Ah, good tip, use only in applications with same thickness of glass. > 5 fills in minor imperfections at solder joints More solder??? > 6 prevents light refraction where glass is fitted into came This could be used as a design feature, using some bevels, and silver or gold leaf > 7 burnishes and polishes lead Pazzzz luster brush?? > 8 blends solder joints with lead Luster brush again 9 fills in major imperfections... glass stretcher ;-) Good reason-would mask errors (small ones) when cutting glass at 3 AM. > 10 lets you find out if that new kid you hired really wants to apprentice.. > like in will he/she not quit after spending 6 months in the mud room :-) :-) ah the real reason, apprentice initiation. Interesting discusson, just to be a rable rouser, think I will try two small free hanging panels, on with lead came and one with brass. Just to try it out. Forever learning, again, and again, and again. Plus the main reason to try it, crafts/Artist with breathing difficulties, or small home studios, who don't want the mess. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > >Please tell me why, why, why. Knowledge is so important to innovation! > > > > 1 stiffens > 2 waterproofs > 3 helps cushion > 4 levels.. as in thin antique next to ripple > 5 fills in minor imperfections at solder joints > 6 prevents light refraction where glass is fitted into came > 7 burnishes and polishes lead > 8 blends solder joints with lead > > Oh Oh maybe I should not have so quick on the trigger with that number... it > was actually figurative and rhetorical ;-) Hmm... > > 9 fills in major imperfections... glass stretcher ;-) > 10 lets you find out if that new kid you hired really wants to apprentice.. > like in will he/she not quit after spending 6 months in the mud room :-) > > I hope I missed a few > > Len > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 18:03:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:01:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706060101.VAA29137@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Charles wrote, > >> >>I never understood why anyone would use whiting. It has a high markup >>and we sell it. However I recommend using various grades of sawdust. >>Coarse for the first cleanup and very fine for the second or final. >>This works better, does not leave a white line around the pieces and >>makes less of a mess than whiting does. >> >>Charles Warner > >Well Charles, a 100 lb bag of whiting costs us 20.00 . I don't think thats expensive. And with our ventilation system not much of a mess. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 18:04:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:03:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Supplies Pricing Question Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun5.1780.0> References: <<1997Jun6.101924.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Regards Melanie Dunstan in Perth, Australia, where it's Winter in June Wow, I live in southern Pennsylvania and it's winter here too, NOW. June 4th and I had the heat on last night. Global warming......Huh! Has anyone work with English Muffle glass? I am a relitive beginner and was wondering if it is easy cutting? My mother has her heart set on window inserts made of the stuff. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 18:05:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:04:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706060104.VAA29446@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len wrote, > Way to go pj, isn't it just a little naive for you all to believe that this >method hasn't been thought of by people smarter then you or I, 10,000 times >and rejected 10,001 times. Just forget it and use cement there are at least >10 good reasons why. Len, Not that I need cheering on...but.......... I can;t imagine what the breakdown time is for silicone. Has anyone ever tested it. And what about repairing that window? I don't mean to be smuge but if you have to ask why you don't use silicone as putty for leaded glass windows..............................I think you should stick to copper foil. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 18:20:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:18:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706060118.VAA00219@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi lee, you wrote, > >Just wondering why???Is it just tradition?? Good quality exterior grade >silicone >> Its not that I am a purest. Certainly not. Its just that if something is not borke don't fix it? In other words. Recipes for cement have worked for hundreds of years. Repairs have been done. And will continue to be done in this manner. I don't know how long your silicone will last. I have never done any studies on it and don't plan to. What happens when someone uses windex on your silicone for oh say ten years, if it lasts that long. And can your promise those who purchase your work with silcone that it will be around for 50 years? Whatever we do whether it is the smallest of repairs we take pride in it. And guarentee our work. I really don't think that you can safely do that with your process. And personally, if the reason you are not using a recipe or putty is because it is messy....I think you should stay with copperfoil....at least you can guarentee your work. ><<..... I just did this BTW, the 20 x 34 inch panel I almost >finished yesterday, had one piece crack just as I was doing the finish >soldering (@%%$*%$$&^(^%^$#@) you get the idea. >>> And of course the piece was probably right in the middle of the panel. Where else would it be? << Well picking out the >broken piece, & foil, so as not to disturb the rest was my this morning >chore. Success, now tonight I am finish soldering again. Fingers and >toes crossed of course :-)>> And just think of all you learned by doing that...your next repair will be a piece of cake. << not wanting to start a big debate.>> Why not?? Debate is always good for the soul. If someone told you today that you could do stained glass without a solder iron, solder you wouldn't have to use a cutter, you could do it in your bedroom and never make as mess and it would last ...........wouldn't you just jump on it??? Well if you answered yes..............you are wrong. Cause you can and it exists. Its called Stained Glass Overlay. And I won't say anymore. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 18:21:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:18:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!StnGlsTres From: StnGlsTres@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: window valuation Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun5.171844.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I received the e-mail below and am unable to help. With permission, I'm posting it here in the hopes that someone on bungi can help. If you do this type of valuation, or can refer someone who does, please e-mail OORAHH@aol.com directly. Thanks!! Steph ========================== Subj: glass Date: 97-06-01 00:00:30 EDT From: OORAHH To: StnGlsTres I have receently purchased a 80 year old catholic church in upstate Wisconsin USA. It has several windows 7 1/2 feet tall and 27 inches wide. I also have a 28-inch iron church bell that is estimated about 100 years old. I am interested in determiing thier value. If you can help me or direct me to someone reputable please e-mail me at OORAHH@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 18:30:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:28:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nwi.net!dloda From: "Dave & Lynn Loda" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Supplies Pricing Question Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:35:17 -0700 Message-ID: <199706060134.SAA05861@nwinternet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Len, In 1996, a wholesaler I dealt withused to drop ship for retailers directly to their customers. I don't know for sure, but they might still do this. I still have an account with them & will check on monday. I would call on Friday, but we are packing up to go to a show which starts tomorrow. Will post what I find out. Dave Loda Art Glass of Wenatchee ---------- > From: len alcamo > To: glass@BUNGI.COM > Subject: Re: Supplies Pricing Question > Date: Thursday, June 05, 1997 2:51 PM > > How can this work for bunginians? > > I can see it work if someone with a wlse. account was able to process the > individual orders placed at regular intervals say once every 2 weeks, call > in the order and have the distibutor ship portions of the orders to > different *ship to* addresses or have the order shipped to one person and > then redistributed > > Would wholesalers go for anything like that? > > Would someone do this out of the goodness of their heart? if not what > percentage would have to be added on to make it worthwhile? > > There is alot of *buying power* on bungi among listees without wholesale > accounts. Nothing against the retailers out there I know it costs money to > run a shop and everyone is just trying to make a living, but some of the > markups are a little much. > > Unfortunately the item that everyone wants a good price on the most is glass > and that would be the most difficult to deal with. > > Len > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 18:33:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:32:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'Melanie Dunstan'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Mirror sealing Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:34:34 -0100 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.203434.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Be careful.. Awhile ago they had a mirror or should I say they had a = waterglass coated so it looked like a mirror.. Did a few projects = from it, used the mirror sealer they sell and still experienced that = mirror rot.. The back of the mirror starts to come off and the mirror = edges turn black.. Have not seen that mirror glass for some time.. Cost = me some to replace those sells. Have not seen that product on the = market for years.. Many must have had that problem.. RECALL..=20 When I do mirror now, I coat the edges and the underside that is foiled = with clear nail polish.. So far no mirror rot..=20 ---------- From: Melanie Dunstan[SMTP:allcrafts@p085.aone.net.au] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 1997 10:40 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Mirror sealing RThaxton@ix.netcom.com wrote: >=20 > Dick Sullivan wrote: >=20 > Hi Gang >=20 > I'm using mirrors for a base of some glass projects I'm doing. > I am wondering what I can use to protect the mirrors from scratching, > something like wax or shellac??? > Can anyone help me?? >=20 > Dick Sullivan > rsully@alaska.net >=20 > ---- Bought a watch recently, and a circle of clear plastic was sitting on the front of the face to protect it. The plastic clung (clang? clinged?) all by itself - there was no adhesive involved. *But - it wasn't your average plastic - ie not freezer bag, plastic bag quality; it had a thickness and a luxurious resiliency, almost as if it stretched slightly - that made you want to keep holding it and bending it around in your fingers. Maybe someone would be able to suggest what kind of plastic it is - but every time I put it back on the watch face, it clung again, and peeled off just as easily as the first time. Regards Melanie Dunstan in cold and wintry Perth ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 20:06:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:05:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: fast.net!charles From: Charles To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Putty vs. silicone Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 23:01:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.19129.0> References: <<199706060101.VAA29137@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > a 100 lb bag of whiting costs us 20.00 . I don't think thats > expensive. Seems to me most of the people in this group would not have a use for a 100 lb bag. When this is priced in the average retail store in the 1 or 5 lb boxes and taking into account the use of it then it is expensive. More importantly what about the original question: how is whiting better then sawdust when used as a cleanup medium? Charles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 20:23:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:22:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: efn.org!markemp From: Mardvark To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Supplies Pricing Question Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun5.13309.0> References: <<1997Jun5.1780.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk |-Has anyone work with English Muffle glass? I am a relitive beginner and |-was wondering if it is easy cutting? My mother has her heart set on |- |-Bob Yes, it cuts well. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 5 23:10:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:09:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: English Muffle Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 23:12:37 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun5.171237.0> References: <<1997Jun5.1780.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Hi Robert E. Jones, I've worked with almost all of the English Muffle colors (except for their VERY expensive pink) and have enjoyed working with it. The colors work well with each other which is a real plus for someone like me who has a tough time putting colors together so they look classy and appropriate. As for cutting, it's easy to cut. It's not like other textured cathedrals which require more pressure. It's a great glass. I've made several panels so far and have been extremely pleased with all of them. T. in Montana Robert E. Jones wrote: > > Has anyone work with English Muffle glass? I am a relitive beginner and > was wondering if it is easy cutting? My mother has her heart set on > window inserts made of the stuff. > > Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 03:02:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 03:01:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: newpig.com!karenro From: karenro To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Is anyone out there Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 05:53:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.15329.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Bungians, Is this just a busy week elsewhere or have I been taken off the list. I miss hearing all the voices I have put with each of you, when reading your e-mails. Not to mention all the great advise. It has been a week since I have received anything. Elizabeth are you out there? Albert ? Mike? Anyone? Your normally quiet lurker Karenro ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 04:13:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 04:12:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun6.31157.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lee, Thank you for the info on "Window Clings"!!! I have made mirrors and boxes and was disappointed to find scratches after completion of the project. I tried contact paper which was a pain to apply as well as to take off. I even considered spraying with a clear varnish, then cleaning off at the finish of the project, though I never actually tried it. Now, I can feel confident that the finish of the project will bring me the same undamaged mirror as I had at the beginning. Thank you also to the person who initiated the question! Eleanor Eureka Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 05:25:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 05:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: English Muffle glass Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 07:31:49 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970606073149.006aed70@busprod.com> References: <<1997Jun6.101924.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Has anyone work with English Muffle glass? I am a relitive beginner and >was wondering if it is easy cutting? My mother has her heart set on >window inserts made of the stuff. >Bob I think you'll enjoy working with EM glass. I use it often and find that it cuts quite easily. I love the texture that it adds to my projects. LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 06:39:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:38:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: alison.sbc.edu!melinton From: melinton@alison.sbc.edu To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: deep rose glass Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:40:45 -0400 Message-ID: References: <<1997Jun5.1780.0>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm planning a panel for a friend who requested the rose in the pattern be done in burgandy or deep rose colored glass. She wants it to be opalescent (I hope this is the right term--she means translucent instead of transparent) and since I'm not so familiar with different kinds of glass yet, I was hoping someone could suggest a manufactorer or color name. I'd like to get some small pieces and select from these. There are no glass store in this area, or I'd go there. I am planning to call some mail order shops and ask their advice too. Thank in advance for any help! --Liz Patience is everything. --R.M. Rilke ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 06:47:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:47:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:43:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.54347.0> References: <<1997Jun6.154019.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Melanie Dunstan wrote: > > RThaxton@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > > Dick Sullivan wrote: > > > > Hi Gang > > > > I'm using mirrors for a base of some glass projects I'm doing. > > I am wondering what I can use to protect the mirrors from scratching, > > something like wax or shellac??? > > Can anyone help me?? > > > > Dick Sullivan > > rsully@alaska.net > > > > ---- > Bought a watch recently, and a circle of clear plastic was sitting on > the front of the face to protect it. The plastic clung (clang? clinged?) > all by itself - there was no adhesive involved. *But - it wasn't your > average plastic - ie not freezer bag, plastic bag quality; it had a > thickness and a luxurious resiliency, almost as if it stretched slightly > - that made you want to keep holding it and bending it around in your > fingers. Maybe someone would be able to suggest what kind of plastic it > is - but every time I put it back on the watch face, it clung again, and > peeled off just as easily as the first time. > > Regards Melanie Dunstan in cold and wintry Perth > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah that stuff is the "magic sticker" i think it can be found in craft stores. the ironic thing is, is that one of it's selling point is to be able to make "stained glass suncatchers" with it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 06:51:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:51:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Supplies Pricing Question Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:47:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.54755.0> References: <<1997Jun5.1780.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Robert E. Jones wrote: > > > Regards Melanie Dunstan in Perth, Australia, where it's Winter in June > > Wow, I live in southern Pennsylvania and it's winter here too, NOW. June > 4th and I had the heat on last night. > > Global warming......Huh! > > Has anyone work with English Muffle glass? I am a relitive beginner and > was wondering if it is easy cutting? My mother has her heart set on > window inserts made of the stuff. > > Bob > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass english muffle is pretty easy to cut, but since it has a semi ripple pattern the inside cuts maybe a little more difficult. and like ripple it may leave a jagged edge. grinding is pretty easy because it's fairly soft. however since you have a texture's edge there's a little more surface to cut your self on. also foiling maybe a little tricky but not as tough as ripple. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 06:56:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:55:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: window valuation Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:52:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.55220.0> References: <<1997Jun5.171844.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk StnGlsTres@aol.com wrote: > > I received the e-mail below and am unable to help. With permission, I'm > posting it here in the hopes that someone on bungi can help. If you do this > type of valuation, or can refer someone who does, please e-mail > OORAHH@aol.com directly. Thanks!! > > Steph > ========================== > Subj: glass > Date: 97-06-01 00:00:30 EDT > From: OORAHH > To: StnGlsTres > > I have receently purchased a 80 year old catholic church in upstate Wisconsin > USA. It has several windows 7 1/2 feet tall and 27 inches wide. I also have > a 28-inch iron church bell that is estimated about 100 years old. I am > interested in determiing thier value. If you can help me or direct me to > someone reputable please e-mail me at OORAHH@aol.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i'd have them show it to an auction house, or a re-seller of old things. have it shown to them in place. generally as far as i know value is determined on who made the pieces (including the bell). what condition there in, and who wants it. if the windows are Tiffany or LaFarge then they may be worth a mint. so that's what i'd probably tell them. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 07:02:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:01:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:58:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.55814.0> References: <<1997Jun5.203434.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk George & Gloria wrote: > > Be careful.. Awhile ago they had a mirror or should I say they had a = > waterglass coated so it looked like a mirror.. Did a few projects = > from it, used the mirror sealer they sell and still experienced that = > mirror rot.. The back of the mirror starts to come off and the mirror = > edges turn black.. Have not seen that mirror glass for some time.. Cost = > me some to replace those sells. Have not seen that product on the = > market for years.. Many must have had that problem.. RECALL..=20 > When I do mirror now, I coat the edges and the underside that is foiled = > with clear nail polish.. So far no mirror rot..=20 > > ---------- > From: Melanie Dunstan[SMTP:allcrafts@p085.aone.net.au] > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 1997 10:40 PM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Mirror sealing > > RThaxton@ix.netcom.com wrote: > >=20 > > Dick Sullivan wrote: > >=20 > > Hi Gang > >=20 > > I'm using mirrors for a base of some glass projects I'm doing. > > I am wondering what I can use to protect the mirrors from scratching, > > something like wax or shellac??? > > Can anyone help me?? > >=20 > > Dick Sullivan > > rsully@alaska.net > >=20 > > ---- > Bought a watch recently, and a circle of clear plastic was sitting on > the front of the face to protect it. The plastic clung (clang? clinged?) > all by itself - there was no adhesive involved. *But - it wasn't your > average plastic - ie not freezer bag, plastic bag quality; it had a > thickness and a luxurious resiliency, almost as if it stretched slightly > - that made you want to keep holding it and bending it around in your > fingers. Maybe someone would be able to suggest what kind of plastic it > is - but every time I put it back on the watch face, it clung again, and > peeled off just as easily as the first time. > > Regards Melanie Dunstan in cold and wintry Perth > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass over the years i found a few things out with mirror: 1. mirror spray does work, but you can't grind the edge of the mirror. that creates chips and chances are likely that it will darken there. 2. nail polish works but takes a long time to apply, but is fairly chemical proof when dried (resistant to the chemicals we use). 3. mirror spray disolves with alcochol (denatured), it got sticky for me anyway. 4. i made my first box 15 years ago, mirror bottom (no ground edges), did'nt have a special coating or anything, and had real sloppy soldering (with lots of flux) and i did'nt clean it with todays's solution. the result, though the box is'nt the best made (hey i was going into 5th grade), the mirror still looks pretty fresh. where as today after grinding it, a month can go by and it developed a black fringe aroung the edge. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 07:06:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:06:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Putty vs. silicone Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:02:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.6214.0> References: <<1997Jun5.19129.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Charles wrote: > > > a 100 lb bag of whiting costs us 20.00 . I don't think thats > > expensive. > > Seems to me most of the people in this group would not have a use > for a 100 lb bag. When this is priced in the average retail store in > the > 1 or 5 lb boxes and taking into account the use of it then it is > expensive. > > More importantly what about the original question: how is whiting > better then sawdust when used as a cleanup medium? > > Charles > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass though i don't work with lead, maybe the whiting acts as an abrasive. and a drying agent, so it removes the excess putty with out smearing, removing it from glass and came. where as sawdust, can soak up the stuff, but not necessarily scrub it off the work. though i can't be exactly sure about that. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 07:10:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:09:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Is anyone out there Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:06:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.662.0> References: <<1997Jun6.15329.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk karenro wrote: > > Bungians, > > Is this just a busy week elsewhere or have I been taken off the list. I > miss hearing all the voices I have put with each of you, when reading > your e-mails. Not to mention all the great advise. It has been a week > since I have received anything. Elizabeth are you out there? Albert ? > Mike? Anyone? > > Your normally quiet lurker > > Karenro > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well i know i've been out there, today there was around 20 messages alone, mainly alot of talk about silicone and putty. by any chance the newpig extension of your email adress, is it that you work for new pig catalog? or is it just a remarkable coincedence? just wondering, cuz' i noticed it earlier. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 07:15:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:07:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.6736.0> References: <<1997Jun6.31157.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Yegnim@aol.com wrote: > > Lee, > Thank you for the info on "Window Clings"!!! I have made mirrors and boxes > and was disappointed to find scratches after completion of the project. I > tried contact paper which was a pain to apply as well as to take off. I even > considered spraying with a clear varnish, then cleaning off at the finish of > the project, though I never actually tried it. Now, I can feel confident > that the finish of the project will bring me the same undamaged mirror as I > had at the beginning. > Thank you also to the person who initiated the question! > Eleanor > Eureka Stained Glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the main things you would have to be carefull with is that, it can burn, and if you put the edges (sides) on top of the mirror, you may pin the stuff under those sides, which will then be difficult to remove. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 07:17:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Putty vs. silicone Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706061416.KAA25061@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Charles wrote, >Seems to me most of the people in this group would not have a use >for a 100 lb bag. >> This is something I do not personally know. > >More importantly what about the original question: how is whiting >better then sawdust when used as a cleanup medium? > And back to the original question. And this is just my opinion............................. One is not better than the other. But what is to stop the sawdust from adhearing to the putty? And is that the finish you are looking for. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 07:20:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:19:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: deep rose glass Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:16:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.6164.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk melinton@alison.sbc.edu wrote: > > I'm planning a panel for a friend who requested the rose in the pattern be > done in burgandy or deep rose colored glass. She wants it to be opalescent > (I hope this is the right term--she means translucent instead of > transparent) and since I'm not so familiar with different kinds of glass > yet, I was hoping someone could suggest a manufactorer or color name. I'd > like to get some small pieces and select from these. There are no glass > store in this area, or I'd go there. I am planning to call some mail order > shops and ask their advice too. Thank in advance for any help! > --Liz > > Patience is everything. > --R.M. Rilke > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i found that red wispy from spectrum makes a nice rose, as long as you use the grain of the glass in a "flowing" manner. yougegheny (sp?) red/white stipple, is really pretty but expensive. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 08:15:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:14:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar From: KrissyMar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun6.71426.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk "glass wax" works fairly well if you keep it polished. It will protect the glass from scratches & add a nice shine as well. It has been around for many years, as I found an ancient bottle while cleaning my grandfather's home. I think you can still find it at hardware stores & other stores that carry cleaning products. I have also seen it for sale in some of the s/g mail order catalogs, but I can't remember which ones. Good luck............Krissy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 08:57:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:56:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Putty and Silicone Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun6.15115.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Bungians or Bunginians: I was going to stay out of the putty v. silicone debate until I remembered the visit we made to the Gabrile Soire Studio in Chartres. Gabrile Soire was the individual who invented the dalle de verre method of using slab glass in stained glass windows. While we were touring his studio we saw a large mosaic of pastel colored glass on glass. They had used a transparent silicone to adhere the mosaic glass pieces to the solid sheet of glass. Needless to say, the effect was beautiful. In fact, I was so impressed I purchased a couple tubes of transparent silicone. I use silicone when I frame copper foil panels in commercial type frames. This is clear which goes on milky in color and ends up clearly milky. The transparent silicone dries to a real clear and I have not seen it in the hardware stores in the US. I guess this is to say that silicone does have its place in stained glass but I have to agree with those who believe it should not be in the lead came channels....brass? Maybe. But one thing is sure. Trying to get the dried silicone off is certainly going to be more time consuming than most of us want to spend. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 10:11:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:10:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!StnGlsTres From: StnGlsTres@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: deep rose glass Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun6.91040.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk << I'm planning a panel for a friend who requested the rose in the pattern be > done in burgandy or deep rose colored glass >> Bullseye makes a cranberry pink/wispy white mix that is GORGEOUS. It's also expensive as most reds/pinks are, and the piece I happened to get was hard to cut--well, not hard to cut necessarily but it didn't break along the score line very well. The item # from Delphi is B2311 - not sure what Bullseye's internal "code" is but probably 2311 or something similar. Delphi charges about $13.00 for an 8" x 10" sheet (I have the 95/96 catalog here not the current one, not sure of current price) so it is not a cheap glass. But boy is it pretty...... Stephanie Hansen Stained Glass Treasures http://members.aol.com/StnGlsTres ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 10:47:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:46:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 13:43:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.94311.0> References: <<1997Jun6.71426.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk For sealing the edges and back of mirror, I use Clear Acyrlic Spray (craft stores) For the window clings for the front cut it just a little smaller than the mirror 3/16ths maybe, so you can pull it up(off) after assembly and soldering. This should keep both the front and back of the mirror piece in good shape. If I get solder runs over the back side, just gently scrape with a smooth plastic piece, they pop right off. Just don't use your iron as that will damage the mirror coating. Hope this helps, this is the way I do boxes and candle holders. One other idea for window cling material, if you are grinding a bevel, put it on the 'down' side, while grinding to prevent scratches. Lee Boe Rain-Boes Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 11:10:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:10:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Putty and Silicone Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 14:06:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.10637.0> References: <<1997Jun6.15115.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Well, a trip to the Home Depot this morning was educational. GE brand Silicone II in tubes ranges from 2.49-6.99 per tube 11 oz (for calking gun) and comes in Clear, White, Almond, Grey, and Black. There is also a marine sealant from "Goop" that is for aquariums, etc, and in the same colors. The solvent is called "non-flammable Adhesive Remover" 3.49 per pint. It is Methylene Chloride. Since both the display cases and aquariums I've made are several years old, with no trace of yellowing or clouding of the clear silicone, it may stand the test of time. The new Silicone II says it will not corrode metal. I am going to make 2 2 foot x 2 foot hanging panels, for myself, one with lead came and one with brass to try this out for myself. It may not do in the long run, but is worth experimenting with. Perhaps there was as much resistance and controversy when 'copper foil' technique was invented??? Since the glass business is growing and evolving, I don't think we should overlook new possiblities just because 'We do it that way, because thats the way it has always been done' I believe we should be open to new ideas and products, some may work,some may not. Anyway, here is the information for anyone who is open to new experiments and ideas. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 11:15:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:14:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ou.edu!dfdavis From: Denise F Davis-1 To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: deep rose glass Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:14:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.8147.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I second the vote for Bullseye cranberry pink/wispy white. I used it for a lampshade and loved the look it gave. I was able to get lots of variation in color with it. It is pricey, but I think it's worth it. Denise Davis ---------- From: StnGlsTres@aol.com [SMTP:StnGlsTres@aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 06, 1997 12:11 PM To: glass@BUNGI.COM Subject: Re: deep rose glass << I'm planning a panel for a friend who requested the rose in the pattern be > done in burgandy or deep rose colored glass >> Bullseye makes a cranberry pink/wispy white mix that is GORGEOUS. It's also expensive as most reds/pinks are, and the piece I happened to get was hard to cut--well, not hard to cut necessarily but it didn't break along the score line very well. The item # from Delphi is B2311 - not sure what Bullseye's internal "code" is but probably 2311 or something similar. Delphi charges about $13.00 for an 8" x 10" sheet (I have the 95/96 catalog here not the current one, not sure of current price) so it is not a cheap glass. But boy is it pretty...... Stephanie Hansen Stained Glass Treasures http://members.aol.com/StnGlsTres ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 11:34:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:34:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: telusplanet.net!dwightj From: telusplanet.net!dwightj To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: silicone research Date: Fri Jun 6 11:34:21 1997 Message-ID: <1997Jun7.9921.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, It has been a most informative discussion on silicone vs. putty. I have learned alot! Seeing that I was the instigator of this wonderful debate, I felt I had the responsibility to put my money where my mouth is. I have contacted several businesses that manufacture silicone. Feedback is slowly coming in and if you would like to be kept updated on the outcome, please let me know. I do not want to beat this issue to death. Apparently, silicone has a life span of 20 years so pj, you were right in the assumption that it will not live up to the life span of cement, which you commented to be about 50 years. It apparently does not shorten the life span when exposed to chemicals such as ammonia. It is preliminary feedback at this point but at least now, we have some factual information that if one chose to use this method for either personal use or commercial, we would be making "informed choices". Personally, after following this discussion I have rethought my use of this practise. However, for those that are limited to foil because of respiratory illness or working in the their home, and the pollution, for lack of a better term, that putty and whiting creates, there is now information available so that you can weigh all the imput that has been obtained through this discussion. I had an unfortunate experience myself using a cement recipe. It scratched my glass! Obviously I did something wrong and for many years I shied away from it. Someone, during this discussion, was kind enough to share a recipe. Is cement applied in the same way that putty is? Or, do I have the terminology messed up and are they the same thing, one being home made and the other being a commercial product. Please let me know if you want to be kept abreast of the feedback as it comes in, as I will not torture the whole group. Sincerely, Lorna e mail : dwightj@telusplanet.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 11:46:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: bashful To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 14:43:17 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.74317.0> References: <<1997Jun5.16550.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Heretics United Precedence: bulk > > 5 fills in minor imperfections at solder joints > More solder??? Better choice - Practice better quality at leading up time. Nice tight fit where lead meets leads makes for better looking joints. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 11:49:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@BUNGI.COM Subject: Re: Supplies Pricing Question Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 14:45:59 EDT Message-ID: <1997Jun6.184559.0> References: <<1997Jun6.101924.0>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk English Muffle is easy to cut and a great glass to work with .The clear and Chanpagne and many other colors all are soft colors .God Bless your Mother she is right on..... Don DeVoto eldondo1@juno.com On Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:08:00 -0400 (EDT) "Robert E. Jones" writes: > >> Regards Melanie Dunstan in Perth, Australia, where it's Winter in >June > >Wow, I live in southern Pennsylvania and it's winter here too, NOW. >June >4th and I had the heat on last night. > >Global warming......Huh! > >Has anyone work with English Muffle glass? I am a relitive beginner >and >was wondering if it is easy cutting? My mother has her heart set on >window inserts made of the stuff. > >Bob > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 11:49:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:49:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@BUNGI.COM Subject: Re: deep rose glass Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 14:45:59 EDT Message-ID: <1997Jun6.184559.0> References: <<1997Jun6.91040.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm with Stephanie.... the Bullseye cranberry/pink /wispy white is (my thoughts too) GORGEOUS Don DeVoto On Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:10:40 -0400 (EDT) StnGlsTres@aol.com writes: ><< I'm planning a panel for a friend who requested the rose in the >pattern >be > > done in burgandy or deep rose colored glass >> > >Bullseye makes a cranberry pink/wispy white mix that is GORGEOUS. >It's also >expensive as most reds/pinks are, and the piece I happened to get was >hard to >cut--well, not hard to cut necessarily but it didn't break along the >score >line very well. The item # from Delphi is B2311 - not sure what >Bullseye's >internal "code" is but probably 2311 or something similar. Delphi >charges >about $13.00 for an 8" x 10" sheet (I have the 95/96 catalog here not >the >current one, not sure of current price) so it is not a cheap glass. > >But boy is it pretty...... > >Stephanie Hansen >Stained Glass Treasures >http://members.aol.com/StnGlsTres >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 12:28:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: efn.org!markemp From: Mardvark To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun6.53510.0> References: <<1997Jun6.94311.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, leestat7 wrote: |-For sealing the edges and back of mirror, I use Clear Acyrlic Spray |-(craft stores) For the window clings for the front cut it just a little I've been using colored acrylic sprays the same way -- most often black -- and haven't seen any problems after 3-4 months. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 12:34:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:33:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: efn.org!markemp From: Mardvark To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Putty and Silicone Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun6.54159.0> References: <<1997Jun6.10637.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, leestat7 wrote: |-I am going to make 2 2 foot x 2 foot hanging panels, for myself, one |-with lead came and one with brass to try this out for myself. It may |-not do in the long run, but is worth experimenting with. |- |-Perhaps there was as much resistance and controversy when 'copper foil' |-technique was invented??? Since the glass business is growing and |-evolving, I don't think we should overlook new possiblities just because |-'We do it that way, because thats the way it has always been done' I |-believe we should be open to new ideas and products, some may work,some |-may not. |- |-Anyway, here is the information for anyone who is open to new |-experiments and ideas. I'm glad you're experimenting. I haven't worked with came yet, so I don't have the experience from which to speak. But after reading what the cement is composed of, I can't help but thinking of the old window putty, which seems to be something similar (a white powder and linseed oil) -- and the modern replacements works far better -- it dries up, cracks, and falls out. The same can be said of other putties and caulks. Doesn't this came cement deteriorate over time and have to be replaced? I'm wondering how well it adheres to the glass and came -- is it hard to remove when it needs to be? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 12:57:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:54:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: MSPO1.MED.UTMB.EDU!POSTMASTER From: Adminstrator To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mail failure Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 15:25:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.10250.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk FROM: Adminstrator TO: glass@bungi.com DATE: 06/06/97 TIME: 14:26 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail failed mailing to mailbag (file does not exist): ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For sealing the edges and back of mirror, I use Clear Acyrlic Spray (craft stores) For the window clings for the front cut it just a little smaller than the mirror 3/16ths maybe, so you can pull it up(off) after assembly and soldering. This should keep both the front and back of the mirror piece in good shape. If I get solder runs over the back side, just gently scrape with a smooth plastic piece, they pop right off. Just don't use your iron as that will damage the mirror coating. Hope this helps, this is the way I do boxes and candle holders. One other idea for window cling material, if you are grinding a bevel, put it on the 'down' side, while grinding to prevent scratches. Lee Boe Rain-Boes Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 12:57:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:54:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: MSPO1.MED.UTMB.EDU!POSTMASTER From: Adminstrator To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Mail failure Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 15:25:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.10250.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk FROM: Adminstrator TO: glass@bungi.com DATE: 06/06/97 TIME: 14:26 SUBJECT: Mail failure ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ User mail failed mailing to mailbag (file contention): UTMB/MSPO4/kkelly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For sealing the edges and back of mirror, I use Clear Acyrlic Spray (craft stores) For the window clings for the front cut it just a little smaller than the mirror 3/16ths maybe, so you can pull it up(off) after assembly and soldering. This should keep both the front and back of the mirror piece in good shape. If I get solder runs over the back side, just gently scrape with a smooth plastic piece, they pop right off. Just don't use your iron as that will damage the mirror coating. Hope this helps, this is the way I do boxes and candle holders. One other idea for window cling material, if you are grinding a bevel, put it on the 'down' side, while grinding to prevent scratches. Lee Boe Rain-Boes Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 15:12:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:11:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: soldering irons Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 18:13:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.111325.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc. Precedence: bulk Hi Bungi Group We just the Hakko and the Hexacon line monday..been using the 454 Hakko all week... Love great.. Its made so much better than the iron I was using... Walter ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 15:14:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:14:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Band Saw Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 18:16:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.111615.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc. Precedence: bulk We set up our new DTI Lazer 5000 last night..Just had to try it out..give me a few more days of testing Great so far Thanks Walter ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 15:58:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:58:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: cyberramp.net!byronw From: byronw@cyberramp.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Sand Blasting Cabinet Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:59:48 +0000 Message-ID: <199706062258.RAA19835@mailhost.cyberramp.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All.... I would like to build my own sand blasting cabinet... (I hate spending money on something I can build myself) What would be the best materials to build one out of?? Wood,metal?? I have both woodworking tools and welding equipment... Thanks in advance! Byron Wells Glassworks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 16:42:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:41:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Mirror sealant Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 19:38:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun6.15387.0> References: <<1997Jun6.15115.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk For sealing the edges and back of mirror, I use Clear Acyrlic Spray (craft stores) For the window clings for the front cut it just a little smaller than the mirror 3/16ths maybe, so you can pull it up(off) after assembly and soldering. This should keep both the front and back of the mirror piece in good shape. If I get solder runs over the back side, just gently scrape with a smooth plastic piece, they pop right off. Just don't use your iron as that will damage the mirror coating. Hope this helps, this is the way I do boxes and candle holders. One other idea for window cling material, if you are grinding a bevel, put it on the 'down' side, while grinding to prevent scratches. Lee Boe Rain-Boes Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 18:21:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: deep rose glass Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:15:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970603030837.1cb7cd14@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Liz; I am stuck far from glass stores too. Spectrum glass has a web page with color sample on it which are pretty good. You might try looking at them . I can't lay my hands on their address right off, but have found it easily with a search. If you can't find it let me know and I will. Meg At 09:40 AM 6/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >I'm planning a panel for a friend who requested the rose in the pattern be >done in burgandy or deep rose colored glass. She wants it to be opalescent >(I hope this is the right term--she means translucent instead of >transparent) and since I'm not so familiar with different kinds of glass >yet, I was hoping someone could suggest a manufactorer or color name. I'd >like to get some small pieces and select from these. There are no glass >store in this area, or I'd go there. I am planning to call some mail order >shops and ask their advice too. Thank in advance for any help! >--Liz > >Patience is everything. > --R.M. Rilke > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 18:41:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 18:41:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!studioone1 From: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: deep rose glass Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 21:17:18 EDT Message-ID: <1997Jun7.11718.0> References: <<1997Jun5.1780.0>>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Bull's Eye has a gorgeous cranberry glass that works well for deep colored flowers. Art Glass House in Florida would probably send you samples. dee studioone1@Juno.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 6 19:51:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:50:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!VicALes From: VicALes@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: deep rose glass Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 22:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun6.185046.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk web address for Spectrum Glass is http://www.SpectrumGlass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 07:01:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 07:00:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: stuck far from glass stores Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 07:55:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970603034854.28f7cf42@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi; The nice folks at WC sent me this message, which I thought I would share with you all. It appears we should be able to shop for glass online at several places now. .. Especially if you are in the USA. Meg >Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 06:35:23 -0400 >From: Charles >Reply-To: charles@fast.net >To: rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr >Subject: stuck far from glass stores >References: <1.5.4.16.19970603030837.1cb7cd14@sol.racsa.co.cr> > >Richard LaVal wrote: >> >> I am stuck far from glass stores too. > >Richard: > >Have you seen our Glass On-Line shopping-cart ordering? At the present >it only has pictures of about 65 Spectrum colors, Monday we are adding >another 60+ colors. Soon we will have all glass we stock (about a >thousand colors and textures) shown. Try the search function for a >color such as red. Put in quantities and add to your shopping cart. > >Nothing is sent to us until the "submit order" button is pressed. I >think this will be the easy way to order glass. We haven't promoted >this feature because it is new starting this week and we haven't >received any feed back yet. > >Charles >http://www.warner-criv.com > > Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 08:07:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 08:06:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Sand Blasting Cabinet Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:06:42 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun7.15642.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Call 1-800-321-9260, TIP Tools & Eqpmt. Ask for a copy of their current catalogue ...... it has a cabinet hardware kit with instructions on how to build it, how to plumb it for vacuum and air, etc. Also, has a pretty good selection of some first class sandblasting eqpmt. Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass At 05:59 PM 6/6/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi All.... > > > I would like to build my own sand blasting cabinet... (I hate >spending money on something I can build myself) What would be the >best materials to build one out of?? Wood,metal?? I have both >woodworking tools and welding equipment... > >Thanks in advance! > >Byron > > >Wells Glassworks > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 15:44:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:40:33 +0000 Message-ID: <199706072242.XAA28555@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hear, hear PJ! Well spoken, well said. I could not agree more. I have already mentioned the silicon issue privately to Lee within another matter, so I don't think she will feel hurt if I go on-line to openly "disagree" with her). My own students have often asked me about precisely this question. My answers have been very much in line with what you have said. Quite frankly, I would not want to risk it. Another matter; think of the "bath sealant" people put between the edge of the bath and the tiles and/or wall. That is silicone rubber too.. After about 5 years it frays, disintergates, peels and gets discoloured and start to look disgusting. So you will need to replace it. The silicone rubber you use on a stained glass panel exposed to the outside, will not only suffer rainwater (and all the acids and pollutants rainwater carries), but also general pollution, salt, fumes and - as PJ points out quite rightly - whatever cleaning agents you subject it too. What about the "merry band" of painters and decorators?? What on earth will THEY use that you don't know about...? On the other hand, I can only too well understand Lee's need to experiment and try to find different alternatives; to try and use something that is suitable to her own particular work environments. Stained glass cement is rather a dirty, grungy and horrible "muck", I agree. So I think the answer is not to say we can't do this or can't do that, but CAN we come up with a NEW solution?? Personally, I am interested specifically about the "Portland Cement" issue (which - by the way - we can still obtain quite easily here in UK). But if it corrodes, what other types of cement can be used...? Keep at it! Elisabeth 'n Toby PJ wrote: Its not that I am a purest. Certainly not. Its just that if something is not borke don't fix it? In other words. Recipes for cement have worked for hundreds of years. Repairs have been done. And will continue to be done in this manner. I don't know how long your silicone will last. I have never done any studies on it and don't plan to. What happens when someone uses windex on your silicone for oh say ten years, if it lasts that long. And can your promise those who purchase your work with silcone that it will be around for 50 years? Whatever we do whether it is the smallest of repairs we take pride in it. And guarentee our work. I really don't think that you can safely do that with your process. And personally, if the reason you are not using a recipe or putty is because it is messy....I think you should stay with copperfoil....at least you can guarentee your work. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 15:44:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: English Muffle glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:40:33 +0000 Message-ID: <199706072242.XAA28558@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Bob, I often work with English Muffle glass and I find it very easy to use and to cut (it helps if you remember to cut it on the smooth-er side); it shapes, forms and "obeys" easily. I have no hesitation in recommending it. Go for it! Elisabeth 'n Toby Bob wrote: >Has anyone work with English Muffle glass? I am a relitive beginner and >was wondering if it is easy cutting? My mother has her heart set on >window inserts made of the stuff. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 15:45:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Is anyone out there Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:40:33 +0000 Message-ID: <199706072242.XAA28567@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Karen, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here !!!!!! I apoligize again for keeping a low profile lately.... have had rather a "plateful" in the last couple of months. But you won't get rid of me THAT quickly! Wanted to keep out of the cement/silicone issue for exactly the same reasons as Peggy Johnson. She echoes my sentiments exactly. Karen, I think you may have had a "glitch" somewhere in your system; my own post-bag from Bungi & Bunginians has lately averaged about 50 a day. We are there waiting to hear from you. To Phil in UK; I have been trying to visit your WEB-site; it took forever to down-load. Tried about 3 times and gave up each time after about 15 minutes. Any ideas? Is it ME? Elisabeth 'n Toby karen wrote: > Bungians, > > Is this just a busy week elsewhere or have I been taken off the list. I > miss hearing all the voices I have put with each of you, when reading > your e-mails. Not to mention all the great advise. It has been a week > since I have received anything. Elizabeth are you out there? Albert ? > Mike? Anyone? ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 16:00:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: silicone research Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:58:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199706072259.XAA29408@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Lorna, Yes , I for one would be extremely interested in any research,, comment, experience in how silicone lasts as opposed to old fashioned stained glass cement. PLEASE do keep me posted. I would like to know... Elisabeth 'n Toby you wrote: Hi everyone, It has been a most informative discussion on silicone vs. putty. I have learned alot! Seeing that I was the instigator of this wonderful debate, I felt I had the responsibility to put my money where my mouth is. I have contacted several businesses that manufacture silicone. Feedback is slowly coming in and if you would like to be kept updated on the outcome, please let me know. I do not want to beat this issue to death. Apparently, silicone has a life span of 20 years so pj, you were right in the assumption that it will not live up to the life span of cement, which you commented to be about 50 years. It apparently does not shorten the life span when exposed to chemicals such as ammonia. It is preliminary feedback at this point but at least now, we have some factual information that if one chose to use this method for either personal use or commercial, we would be making "informed choices". Personally, after following this discussion I have rethought my use of this practise. However, for those that are limited to foil because of respiratory illness or working in the their home, and the pollution, for lack of a better term, that putty and whiting creates, there is now information available so that you can weigh all the imput that has been obtained through this discussion. I had an unfortunate experience myself using a cement recipe. It scratched my glass! Obviously I did something wrong and for many years I shied away from it. Someone, during this discussion, was kind enough to share a recipe. Is cement applied in the same way that putty is? Or, do I have the terminology messed up and are they the same thing, one being home made and the other being a commercial product. Please let me know if you want to be kept abreast of the feedback as it comes in, as I will not torture the whole group. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 16:00:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:00:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 23:58:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199706072259.XAA29411@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Sorry I am a bit confued as how to address you. 3-4 months , heh. Fine.... What about 3-4 YEARS??? And again, how about 30 - 40 years.... or is that aspect not important??? Elisabeth 'n Toby you wrote: I've been using colored acrylic sprays the same way -- most often black -- and haven't seen any problems after 3-4 months. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 18:37:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:36:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: efn.org!markemp From: Mardvark To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun7.114423.0> References: <<199706072259.XAA29411@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------------------------- On Sat, 7 Jun 1997, Toby wrote: |-Hi, |-Sorry I am a bit confued as how to address you. |-3-4 months , heh. Fine.... |-What about 3-4 YEARS??? |-And again, how about 30 - 40 years.... or is that aspect not |-important??? |-Elisabeth 'n Toby |- |- |-you wrote: |-I've been using colored acrylic sprays the same way -- most often black -- |-and haven't seen any problems after 3-4 months. |- You know, this group seems rather unfriendly, and rather resistant to any other ideas than those firmly intrenched in their little brains. What would you recommend? The over-priced mirror sealant? And how long has that been around? And do you even know what it is? A lot of people suspect it is just repackaged acrylic. But like a lot of other stain-glass supplies, the manufacturers won't STATE what is in it so someone can KNOW what chemicals they are using. As for 30 or 40 years, hah! With the state the world is in, hell no I don't care, and beside, most of your work done with your precious old cement will have long decayed and been tossed in the landfill anyway. What are you, a bunch of conservative assholes on this group? Fuck off! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 18:44:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:44:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 21:40:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun7.174050.0> References: <<199706072242.XAA28555@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Yes, perfectly OK, Just did not want discussion closed, as to new methods and techniques. You should see the discussion going on right now with the ArtMetal list, on developing a good lightweight casting cement for sculpture. I quote one passage, as it has to do with adding 'glass bubbles' to the mix to lighten the weight of the finished product. Maybe an inquiring mind out there can incorporate the 'glass bubbles' in a blown or SG pieces, as they come in assorted sizes. I also am copying the web site of 'Jim' as he does some really astonishing jewelry. I will check the list for references to 'Portland cement' used in casting too. Since I am really intrigued by a 'less messy' method, will do the 2 panels-one brass, one lead to experiment. Then I'll just watch what they do over the next several years (God willing I stick around that long) But, yes, to use an untried material for client work, especially large in site installations, when the tried and true has stood the test of time, would not be reasonable at this point. Also I just got the May/June issue of Glass Art magazine. It has some pictures of Stephen Powell's Glass Vessels using murrini that are 'way gorgeous. Plus pictures of Palm Studio's "Circle of Life" triptych. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > FROM THE ARTMETAL LIST > When I was in the Navy I worked on deep submergence /ocean engineering > programs where we needed to make light strong buoyant material to fill > voids in large steel structures. One way of doing this was to mix epoxy > with glass bubbles these bubbles are available in various sizes from finer > than 300 mesh to 1/2" Dia. we would mix the bubbles into the epoxy in a > portable cement mixer. So why not use the same bubbles to mix into > concrete in place of some or all of the aggregate. In fact you could use > smaller bubbles to replace the sand. The glass is very strong and once > protected by the epoxy binder the stuff is nearly indestructible. The > bubbles are over 90% air by volume. I have seen the micro bubbles in > stores that sell plastic resin for casting to do the same thing for > fiberglass resins. I think you would definitely want to use the acrylic > binder for the cement in this process. > > Jim > > http://www.mokume-gane.com > jbin@well.com > James Binnion Metal Arts > 2916 Chapman St > Oakland, CA 94601 > 510-436-3552 Toby wrote: > > Hear, hear PJ! > Well spoken, well said. I could not agree more. I have already > mentioned the silicon issue privately to Lee within another matter, > so I don't think she will feel hurt if I go on-line to openly > "disagree" with her). My own students have often asked me about > precisely this question. My answers have been very much in line with > what you have said. Quite frankly, I would not want to risk it. > Another matter; think of the "bath sealant" people put between the > edge of the bath and the tiles and/or wall. That is silicone rubber > too.. After about 5 years it frays, disintergates, peels and gets discoloured > and start to look disgusting. So you will need to replace it. The > silicone rubber you use on a stained glass panel exposed to the > outside, will not only suffer rainwater (and all the acids and > pollutants rainwater carries), but also general pollution, salt, > fumes and - as PJ points out quite rightly - whatever cleaning agents > you subject it too. What about the "merry band" of painters and > decorators?? What on earth will THEY use that you don't know > about...? > On the other hand, I can only too well understand Lee's need to > experiment and try to find different alternatives; to try and use > something that is suitable to her own particular work environments. > Stained glass cement is rather a dirty, grungy and horrible "muck", I > agree. So I think the answer is not to say we can't do this or can't > do that, but CAN we come up with a NEW solution?? > Personally, I am interested specifically about the "Portland Cement" > issue (which - by the way - we can still obtain quite easily here in > UK). But if it corrodes, what other types of cement can be used...? > Keep at it! > Elisabeth 'n Toby > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 18:54:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:54:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 21:50:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun7.175041.0> References: <<1997Jun7.114423.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mardvark wrote: > > ---------------------------- > > On Sat, 7 Jun 1997, Toby wrote: > > |-Hi, > |-Sorry I am a bit confued as how to address you. > |-3-4 months , heh. Fine.... > |-What about 3-4 YEARS??? > |-And again, how about 30 - 40 years.... or is that aspect not > |-important??? > |-Elisabeth 'n Toby > |- > |- > |-you wrote: > |-I've been using colored acrylic sprays the same way -- most often black -- > |-and haven't seen any problems after 3-4 months. > |- > > You know, this group seems rather unfriendly, and rather resistant to any > other ideas than those firmly intrenched in their little brains. What > would you recommend? The over-priced mirror sealant? And how long has > that been around? And do you even know what it is? A lot of people > suspect it is just repackaged acrylic. But like a lot of other > stain-glass supplies, the manufacturers won't STATE what is in it so > someone can KNOW what chemicals they are using. > > As for 30 or 40 years, hah! With the state the world is in, hell no I > don't care, and beside, most of your work done with your precious old > cement will have long decayed and been tossed in the landfill anyway. > What are you, a bunch of conservative assholes on this group? Fuck off! > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass what the hell is you problem anyway? (parden my french). every one on this group has always been nice. she asked why 3-4 months, because it should hold up alot longer than that. there was'nt any insult about it to you or anyone, i personally would'nt want to be the one known as the guy who did'nt care about his work. if all my mirrors turned black only after a few years, it really does'nt matter what i used, whether it was mirror spray or hog spit that stopped it from turning black, that's what i'll use. i know i would'nt want any of my windows to fall apart, or look bad, even in a hundred years. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 18:55:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:55:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 21:51:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun7.175143.0> References: <<1997Jun7.114423.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk My, My, lets not get rough here, Elisabeth is one of the most open-minded people I know on the list, always willing to consider and discuss new ways of doing things. In print, sometimes the 'shade' of what is said, is missed. And, yes I use Clear acylic sealer on mirrors all the time. No black rot noted in a long, long time, so has Mike Savad. He makes lots of 3D pieces, including mirror boxes, for years and years :-) Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > |-you wrote: > |-I've been using colored acrylic sprays the same way -- most often black -- > |-and haven't seen any problems after 3-4 months. > |- > > You know, this group seems rather unfriendly, and rather resistant to any > other ideas than those firmly intrenched in their little brains. What > would you recommend? The over-priced mirror sealant? And how long has > that been around? And do you even know what it is? A lot of people > suspect it is just repackaged acrylic. But like a lot of other > stain-glass supplies, the manufacturers won't STATE what is in it so > someone can KNOW what chemicals they are using. > > As for 30 or 40 years, hah! With the state the world is in, hell no I > don't care, and beside, most of your work done with your precious old > cement will have long decayed and been tossed in the landfill anyway. > What are you, a bunch of conservative assholes on this group? F******* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 19:01:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 19:01:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Amended cement recipe Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 22:00:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun7.18048.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Elisabeth- I'm going to post what I think is the corrected cement recipe per Julie's= amendments: 7 parts whiting 1 part boiled linseed oil 1 1/2-2 parts mineral spirits 1-2 Tbsp. lamp black or other colorant Someone (Len?) also mentioned japan drier - quanitity would probably be minimal. We haven't tried this out yet - any comments from the experts? Can Elisabeth give this recipe to her students? Any other changes/improvement= s? Thanks for the feedback. Best regards, Dani Greer P.S. Also, finally got to see your web site, Elisabeth -- very nice! And= Toby is a doll, too! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 19:07:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 19:07:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 22:03:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun7.18353.0> References: <<1997Jun7.175143.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk leestat7 wrote: > > My, My, lets not get rough here, Elisabeth is one of the most > open-minded people I know on the list, always willing to consider and > discuss new ways of doing things. In print, sometimes the 'shade' of > what is said, is missed. And, yes I use Clear acylic sealer on mirrors > all the time. No black rot noted in a long, long time, so has Mike > Savad. He makes lots of 3D pieces, including mirror boxes, for years > and years :-) > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > > > |-you wrote: > > |-I've been using colored acrylic sprays the same way -- most often black -- > > |-and haven't seen any problems after 3-4 months. > > |- > > > > You know, this group seems rather unfriendly, and rather resistant to any > > other ideas than those firmly intrenched in their little brains. What > > would you recommend? The over-priced mirror sealant? And how long has > > that been around? And do you even know what it is? A lot of people > > suspect it is just repackaged acrylic. But like a lot of other > > stain-glass supplies, the manufacturers won't STATE what is in it so > > someone can KNOW what chemicals they are using. > > > > As for 30 or 40 years, hah! With the state the world is in, hell no I > > don't care, and beside, most of your work done with your precious old > > cement will have long decayed and been tossed in the landfill anyway. > > What are you, a bunch of conservative assholes on this group? F******* > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass boy i hope that guy did'nt cover himself in gaoline, cuz' he's going to get flamed for sure. :) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 20:05:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:05:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Art Pad Tablet Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 23:01:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun7.19130.0> References: <<1997Jun7.18353.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Joy, oh Joy, I just got my Wacom ArtPadII tablet installed. Wow, I can 'draw' with the cordless pen, make designs, use it like a mouse, etc. Hold it in my lap, while I work. Can't wait to try using it with Designer. Much easier than a mouse, to use for drawing. Does anyone else have one??? Next Computer project is to get a good (not expensive) one pass color flat bed scanner. Any recommendations? Then, like getting new curtains, I'll have to get a bigger hard drive to hold all the stuff. ;-) Let me know scanner recommendations, please. I am still trying to get set up for a web site, slow,slow going. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 20:21:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:21:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:21:32 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Mirror sealing" on Jun 7, 18:44, Mardvark writes:] > As for 30 or 40 years, hah! With the state the world is in, hell no I > don't care, and beside, most of your work done with your precious old > cement will have long decayed and been tossed in the landfill anyway. > What are you, a bunch of conservative assholes on this group? Fuck off! Just so everyone knows,..this person has been deleted from this mailing list... -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 20:41:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: shyguy To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 23:29:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun7.192918.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenna Rand wrote: > Just so everyone knows,..this person has been deleted from this > > mailing list... > > -- > Glenna Rand > gjr@bungi.com THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 21:01:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:01:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 23:03:10 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun7.23310.0> References: <<1997Jun7.19130.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > the cordless pen, ...Does anyone else have one??? Hi, Lee, At work I have a pen and graphics tablet capibilities. Sliced bread doesn't even come close! Coming home and going back to a mouse makes my hand cramp so I now do all my designing at work during lunch! Enjoy! You are about to get really spoiled! Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 7 21:48:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 21:48:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: SusieHUs@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Foul-mouthed little twerp Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 00:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun7.20481.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well folks, My vote would be to request that this "person" (and I do use that term loosely here with apologies to all real people) be removed from the list. Regardless of the extent of disagreement between people here, no matter how lively and heated the discussions may become, at least everyone else seems capable of retaining a civil tongue. I don't appreciate seeing that kind of language here and especially not aimed at someone like Elisabeth. <<>> Seems to me that you are the one here who is the most unfriendly and resistant and you have definitely proven just how little your brain actually is. And since you seem so unhappy with the people here, who have been nothing but friendly and helpful to those who show a modicum of decency and respect toward them, may I please be the first to invite you to go elsewhere then? Trust me, no one will miss your foul mouth here. <<>> And if you're wondering how the world came to be in "this state," take a good look in the mirror - the one that's sealed in acrylic, mirror sealant, silicone, spit, bubblegum or goldleaf - what you see there will still be just as ugly. QUITE Sincerely, Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 02:36:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 02:35:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:42:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199706080935.FAA09432@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Let me know scanner recommendations, please. > > I am still trying to get set up for a web site, slow,slow going. Lee, I've been using Microtek scanners for a few years and am very happy with them. As for web pages, you know that Guild members get free web pages, right? Save yourself some trouble and get a number of other benefits, as well. [end of promo piece] Albert International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 02:36:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 02:35:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 05:42:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199706080935.FAA09435@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > suspect it is just repackaged acrylic. But like a lot of other > > stain-glass supplies, the manufacturers won't STATE what is in it so > > someone can KNOW what chemicals they are using. We'd like to have names named of manufacturers, etc., who will not reveal the contents of their products. That's very much against the law. Albert Lewis International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 02:45:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 02:45:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: tiac.net!phil7 From: phil7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 05:43:57 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun7.224357.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Glenna Rand wrote: > > [In the message entitled "Re: Mirror sealing" on Jun 7, 18:44, Mardvark writes:] Thank you! phil7 > > As for 30 or 40 years, hah! With the state the world is in, hell no I > > don't care, and beside, most of your work done with your precious old > > cement will have long decayed and been tossed in the landfill anyway. > > What are you, a bunch of conservative > > Just so everyone knows,..this person has been deleted from this > > mailing list... > > -- > Glenna Rand > gjr@bungi.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 04:23:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 04:21:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mirror sealing Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 06:23:59 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.62359.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > Just so everyone knows,..this person has been deleted from this > mailing list... Thank you, Glenna. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 07:32:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:31:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter From: Shirley Suter To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 09:33:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.4332.0> References: <<1997Jun7.19130.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Suter's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk leestat7 wrote: > > Let me know scanner recommendations, please. Hi Lee! I've got a Musetek TwainScan II SP. Sure like it! It's a single pass, flatbed, legal size scanner. Got it at Sam's Wholesale Club for $179.00. Hardware and software was included (a real bonus for the inexperienced). Now I'm in the market for a CD burner. Just love those electronic toys!! Let me know "off-list" if you want more info or you want to see some un-retouched scans. Shirley Grapeland, Tx. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 07:32:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 07:31:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: My humble trade Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:29:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199706081431.PAA08834@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Gang, While I was peacefully asleep, I was totally unaware of the furore I seem to have caused (... yet again...??). It's pointless to rise to it. In any case I appear to have a considerable "host" of gladiators out there ready to leap to my defence. Let me just pick up on what Mike Savad was saying about our modest hopes, that we strive to create THE BEST we can, something that will last long after we ourselves have been reduced to "worm fodder"; Most of the stained glass at Chartres Cathedral dates back to around 1215 AD. To see such a massive expanse (over 27,000 [thousand] square feet) of stained glass is awesome. To realize that it is also close to 800 years old is very humbling. To take in the history of the glass and the Cathedral itself leaves you with a feeling of wonderment. In the book Stained Glass by Lawrence Lee et al, the introduction to Chartres (in my edition) starts with the words : "Almost everything about Chartres Cathedral is beyond normal belief". As France suffered war after war during its history, the stained glass was taken down time and time again, hidden and re-mounted again when time became safe. What love, dedication of the people involved - just THINK of the physical task involved!! And just how and where would you hide 27,00 square feet of glass??!! Undetected! The floors in the Cathedral are sloped so that the cathedral cleaners in the Middle Ages could wash them more easily after the pilgrims departed , having dossed in the cathedral over-night.... and so on. It was my first pilgrimage to Chartres . I stayed at a hotel (rather than dossing on a straw matress on the cathedral floor - even Elisabeth is not entirely blind to modern life...) with my fellow travellers. We had travelled by coach from my little village in UK, starting out at about 6 in the morning. The coach journey did tire us out, it must have been between 6 or 7 in the evening when we got to within a few kilometers from Chartres. The countryside was flat, we were getting hungry, tired and impatient. Judy Robinson promised a bottle of wine to the first person who correctly would spot the 2 spires of the Cathedral. The trouble was, we couldn't even see the town itself, never mind the Cathedral. Then all of a sudden, the landscape dipped down and THERE was the town, taking us completely by surprise! And sure enough, there she was, Queen of Cathedrals, towering over the town on a hillock all to herself, basking in the evening sunshine. The bottle of wine was instantly claimed. Slowly, Ken, our coach-driver drove us into Chartres. the route he drove, spun us round the Cathedral itself almost 300 degrees. The sunset was fabulous. At around 6 the following morning, I was up and dressed and quietly "snuck" out on my own from the hotel. The sun was only just re-emerging. I walked up the hill to the Cathedral, there wasn't a soul about. The Cathedral was open, but only one or two priests moving quietly around. It was just me and 27,000 square feet of stained glass , alone together. I just stood there in the middle of the Cathedral, spinning around on my heels to try and take it all in. It was just too much. I spun around and spun around like the preverbial Ottoman whirling dervish, with tears streaming down my face, trying to take in the beauty, the themes, the stories, the pains, the pride, the craftsmanship, the history and the miracle of it all. Peasants and poor people of the Middle Ages were very significant donors to the stained glass glory. The stained glass itself also reflects this, in that so many themes are involved with showing simple people at work. A massive cleaning project of the stained glass is now up and running. It takes about a year for each panel to be cleaned, but the difference is stunning. I was very glad of my solitary first 90 minutes with the stained glass. I don't think I could have handled it in any other way. I re-joined my fellow travellers for breakfast later that morning, but did find it rather difficult to speak for quite a while. To my grave, I don't think I will ever forget that first impact the stained glass in Chartres had on me. There was a second surprise in store for all of us, personified in our stained glass guide, Malcolm Miller, who has dedicated 40 years of his life purely to the study and research of the stained glass at Chartres Cathedral. He has written a number of books, done an impressive number of lecture tours, BBC television programmes; has lectured and toured USA and - will do another lecture tour in USA next year. He is the epitomy of an English eccentric and academic, tall, glowing and a shock of white hair, enthusiastic about his subject. He now lives in Chartres - and ,we felt, more married to the Cathedral than anything else. Pristine,"dapper" and an old-fashioned British academic, he totally "glowed" and made us glow with him. He stood there, time and time again underneath a panel, facing us, his back to the panel and describing its contents, colours, most intimate details and history to us, without even ONCE himself turning to look at it. But he was also brilliant in illustrating the "human and common factor" in what he had to say; one particular aspect he really illuminated to the "British Contigent" was how Reformation knights used to take up as a sport , to ride towards a church with stained glass and aim their spears through them to demolish them. We had quite a lively discussion about that afterwards..... Watch out for Malcolm Miller's visit to USA next year!!!! If what I create, would only have a life-time of 3-4 months, then I am in the wrong business; what an insult to Craftsmen before me; what an insult to the people I am endeavouring to teach, and what an insult to my colleagues across the world who dedicate their lives to create beauty, history and sweat blood. Funnily enough, what a way to insult me, myself. That's not what I am about. I have no illusion that my stained glass will be so revered, cherished and treasured 800 years after my demise - as the stained glass at Chartres. But I do intend to do my best and give my best to a very ancient and proud craft of many centuries standing, not to demean it, not to trash it and to try and produce each creation as something I can be proud of and am willing to put my name to. I also try and impart the feeling of pride to my students. Over the years I think there are only 2 individuals whom I have asked most earnestly never to tell anyone that I taught them. But that's another story... And by the way, I am extremely interested in new research and technology, including silicone. I have already made contact with the individuals in question and they will keep me posted. As regards Peggy Johnson's revolutionary discovery of the "clear" silicone that doesn't fade or yellow, I think, it might even have been me that tucked it into her suitcase when she returned to USA. I am delighted to hear that it does the job she was looking for. How exciting! We will always "sit" with the dilemma of evaluating new ideas, technology and new inventions. On the one hand, we have a thousand years' knowledge and experience to rest on and pontificate about.On the other hand, we do not have the miracle sight of looking AHEAD a 1000 years to know what has stood the test of time. It's a fine balance, often involves discussion, debates and even heated arguments. On a third hand, some of us also make a living out of this stained glass thing. If a customer came to me 4 months after installation with a panel that had fallen apart because of what I did to it, I would be suicidal. I DO care, I produced "this baby", it is MINE, my reputation, self-worth and my future depends on it!!! Yet, if we chose to take these discussions and exchanges as personal and personal insults, then we are in deep trouble. I'll get off my soap-box now. But I do realize that the Group is a fast-moving thing; there are a lot of wonderful "newbies" out there; so who the hell is Mike Savad or Elisabeth and all these other "oldies" and why the furore. Create in Happiness and Harmony -and perhaps just a tiny touch of humbleness! We all have our different styles and a different way of putting a message across. I do so hope I am not starting yet another furore...... Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 08:10:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:09:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:17:14 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970608101714.0069eda4@busprod.com> References: <<1997Jun7.18353.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Joy, oh Joy, >I just got my Wacom ArtPadII tablet installed. Lee... I've been promising muself for the last year or two I would buy an art tablet...congratulations! Was the installation difficult? Does it plug into the existing mouse port or have it's own card to install? Lastly, do you have windows 95, if so how was the plug & play feature? >Next Computer project is to get a good (not expensive) one pass color >flat bed scanner. Any recommendations? Then, like getting new >curtains, I'll have to get a bigger hard drive to hold all the stuff. >Let me know scanner recommendations, please. I agree with shirley...the mustek is a lot of scanner for the money! My partner and I purchased the same model for the business. It came with pc and mac software! Take a look at my web pages and you can see an sampling of what it can do...all the pics there were scanned with the mustek. LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 08:22:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:22:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:20:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706081520.KAA27362@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 10:00 PM 6/7/97 -0400, Michael J. Greer wrote: >Hi Elisabeth- > >I'm going to post what I think is the corrected cement recipe per Julie's= > >amendments: > >7 parts whiting >1 part boiled linseed oil >1 1/2-2 parts mineral spirits >1-2 Tbsp. lamp black or other colorant > >Someone (Len?) also mentioned japan drier - quanitity would probably be >minimal. > >We haven't tried this out yet - any comments from the experts? Can >Elisabeth give this recipe to her students? Any other changes/improvement= >s? > Thanks for the feedback. > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer If thats the formula recommended by Julie by all means go with it, she is indeed the recognized expert. Japan drier... I don't even know what that stuff is, another one of those petroleum distillates that seem to be such an important part of our every day lives. Japan drier will speed up the drying rate of linseed oil, however it must be used carefully, too much will cause the cement to dry too rapidly and the cement will become crumbly and lose its elasticity. Probably don't need it at all unless your WAY behind schedule ;-) How much to use? 1 part japan drier to 30-40 parts boiled linseed Len OBTW... I've generally used the term cement, but when client confusion set in I would also describe the material as a grout which really is a more descriptive and accurate term... IMHO ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 08:22:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:22:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:20:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706081520.KAA27364@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Quite frankly, I would not want to risk it. >Another matter; think of the "bath sealant" people put between the >edge of the bath and the tiles and/or wall. That is silicone rubber >too.. After about 5 years it frays, disintergates, peels and gets discoloured and >start to look disgusting. So you will need to replace it. The >silicone rubber you use on a stained glass panel exposed to the >outside, will not only suffer rainwater (and all the acids and >pollutants rainwater carries), but also general pollution, salt, >fumes and - as PJ points out quite rightly - whatever cleaning agents >you subject it too. What about the "merry band" of painters and >decorators?? What on earth will THEY use that you don't know >about...? All very true E (glad your still with us) A couple more points on silicone... This info is off the top of my head so be easy on me :-) Silicone caulk has been around for at least 25 years or more it was developed and patented by General Electric and when it came on the market it was a wonder material. I don't know what it was originally developed for but it was quickly adopted by studios that installed protective covering over stained glass ( glass and polycarbonates such as Lexan, another GE product) it adheres tenatiously to glass but not as well to other materials so primers had to be used. And it had other shortcomings as well. But it saved considerable installation time as compared to fabricating frames and stops and/or using putty and was far more versatile. In the early '70's it was going for 6-7 bucks a tube (monopoly) I wonder what that works out to in '97 dollars.. ALOT! Then the patent ran out and the market was and still is flooded with the stuff... cheap! There are many other caulks on the market (most of which are only available commercially) that are formulated for specific applications and perform far better then silicone. Any one wishing to experiment with alternatives to traditional cement might consider researching some of the other caulks. There is another important reason why cement is applied as a FINAL step when fabricating large and/or complicated leaded glass panels and that is the fact that the pieces of glass are constantly being adjusted to comply with the pattern, the panel is shrinking, growing and shifting as you assemble over the course of a day/days... any putty, caulk whatever, added between the glass and lead as you go would not allow for proper manipulation. IMHO Lee... your blessed with an inquisitive nature and thats great, but I also would suggest that you stick :-) with copper foil. Leaded glass work is tough, dirty and physically demanding and its not for everyone. If it wasn't for the adaption of copper foil as a general use technique the art and craft of SG would probably involve just a small fraction of the people that it does today. There is no reason why you shouldn't experiment though, and find out for yourself. Portland cement......Julie stated that it gets too hard which makes it difficult to correct bulges, and it sticks to glass too much. I mentioned that it was corrosive, I'm not sure if thats an issue or not. If someone can respond on that point I would be interested. It is abrasive and can SCRATCH some glass. It is not essential for quality cement. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 08:26:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:25:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: My humble trade Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706081525.LAA06042@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Good Morning Elizabeth , I won't repeat your message....but it made me glow thinking of Mr. MIller. What a true treasure he is. And is interpertation of the windows will leave you wanting more. I also missed the furor that was going on......amazing isn't it...............this time it wasn't me! But I thank Glenna for removing said person. Debate is one thing. Pure insult is another. Chartre is a piece of heaven on earth and anyone reading your message should just close their eyes and vicariously drift. If Malcom is coming to the USA I will try to find out when and where. Anyone who has the chance to hear his wonderous stories of the Windows of Chartre should do so. Elizabeth wrote, <> I could not have said it better. To those who do not live in the art everyday please realize that is this our life. We work in our studio 12 to 14 hours a day. Not because we HAVE to but because we love it. And along with loving the art of comtemporary stained glass we also love the tradition. Well I don't want to get on the soap box either..........................have a dedication of an outdoor sculpture we just installed.. And just to think it will be there for years brings more than a smile to my soul. That is humbling. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 08:58:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:57:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!StnGlsTres From: StnGlsTres@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My humble trade Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun8.75739.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elisabeth, as always, you have a wonderful way with words. Thanks so much for the description of Chartres and your experience there - makes me long for the time I can go across the pond and see it myself. Fooey on those who don't understand the ways of our group. Thanks for a great pick-me-up! Steph ~ Stephanie Hansen Stained Glass Treasures http://members.aol.com/StnGlsTres ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 09:10:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 09:09:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!StnGlsTres From: StnGlsTres@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:09:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun8.8950.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-06-08 02:48:44 EDT, you write: << Next Computer project is to get a good (not expensive) one pass color flat bed scanner. Any recommendations? >> Lee, I just recently read something which mentioned some online magazine articles with scanner reviews, here it is (I have NOT checked out any of these sites): To find the scanner that's just right for your needs, read PC Magazine's March 4th '97 issue. It has a great review of 17 flat bed scanners. You can find it on the web at: (http://www8.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/scanners/). Also check out The Macintosh Peripheral Page (http://www.flash.net/~wdarner/mpp/scannert.html). It has links to many reviews of scanners. For a good list of general scanner resources go to (http://www.dpi-scanner-authority.com/nav/index.html) This site has lots of information that will help beginners choose scanners, and learn to use them for best results. I myself have a Mustek Paragon 600 II SP scanner, bought last month before I saw the above resources, and it works rather well. I haven't put a whole lot of pictures up on my site yet, and the ones I have on there are a bit blurry more because my photograhy skills leave a LOT to be desired than because the scanner doesn't work well! :-) But I like the scanner itself just fine. It was about $220 at Best Buy. Hope this helps! Steph ~ Stephanie Hansen Stained Glass Treasures http://members.aol.com/StnGlsTres ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 09:14:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 09:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Scanner recommendation Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 12:18:07 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970608121807.00717b00@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997Jun7.18353.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lee wrote: >Next Computer project is to get a good (not expensive) one pass color >flat bed scanner. Any recommendations? Lee, I have an Info Image Reader ... was recommended to me by friends who own a computer store, though I wasn't buying from them. Mine is not a flat bed, but it was the best buy on the market, easy to install and easy to learn to use ... also the tech support was fairly easy to reach as smaller cos. go and very helpful. I have nursed some friends through installations that were much more complex and troublesome, so I remain impressed with this company's product. I would suggest you include them on your research list. Their URL is http://www.info-products.com/ Have fun with your pen. I envy you! Cheers, M.-J. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 09:27:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 09:26:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: telusplanet.net!dwightj From: telusplanet.net!dwightj To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Windex Date: Sun Jun 8 09:26:51 1997 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.7151.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Good morning all! Nice to see that we're all still out there. I have a question about cleaning stained glass panels and whether I have been misinformed all these years. My stained glass instructor cautioned us stongly against the use of any ammonia product with lead, such as Windex, stating that it causes rapid deterioration. I have suffered endlessly, and perhaps unnecessarily, with cleaning my personal collection in my home. Does anyone know if Windex does in fact cause problems, and what are the alternatives? Thanking you in advance. Sincerely, Lorna email:dwightj@telusplanet.net P.S. Len, thank you for clarifying that a poor cement mixture can scratch glass. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 09:36:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 09:35:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Friendly words Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 12:39:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970608123951.00717b00@pop.bridge.net> References: <<199706081431.PAA08834@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Gentle folks, I have no desire to defend the rude and inappropriate words of Mardvark, however, I think there was a point to what he/she said that got buried in the furor. Mardvark posted his/her own experience which was clearly only 3-4 months. The subsequent post by our beloved Elisabeth *seemed* to belittle his/her offering because it was of such insignificant time. Newbies *can* be very sensitive and I can understand how it might have felt like a flame when everyone who has been around here for a while knows it wasn't meant that way. Now, please don't anyone take this wrong. How Mardvark (Madjerk?) handled his discomfort was totally unacceptable from about the third sentence on, and it is absolutely right that this person was expunged, but we might all try to be gentler with one another and especially with people we don't know. Now I know and most everyone here knows that Elisabeth didn't mean anything unkind or even to be personal about it. But we have nothing other than words here (or experience over time with each other) to help us perceive tone and intent. Had Mardvark been able to hear Elisabeth's voice or see the warm expression on her face, he might have felt less rebuked. I do believe we are all responsible for our own emotions, i.e., it really was Mardvark's problem that he took the comment so badly, and so personally, but it's hard not to take a comment personally when one's words have been quoted directly. Indeed, it takes a great deal of maturity to take even gentle criticism with perfect equanimity. I will try to take this unhappy experience as a reminder to couch my words more carefully and with loving intention and to try to extend some welcome to newbies on the list. Peace, M.-J. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 09:57:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 09:57:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:55:29 +0000 Message-ID: <199706081657.RAA17361@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Len, This debate is getting quite interesting; it has taken us into all sorts of directions (a couple of "nasties" along the way, but generosity of spirit and good humour still reigning strong). It may sound like a total contradiction , but I for one, will be very interested what Lee Boe will or might come up with. You know the old saying "Necessity is the Mother of Invention". In her case, this is certainly true. She is a thinker and is inquisitive, she wants to know, she needs to experiment. Her particular requirements makes her think the unthinkable and experiment with it. It is perfectly true that I would not dare to put my head on the block with my customers and experiment in this fashion. At this moment in time, I would certainly NOT use silicone in my leaded panels, nor would I encourage my students to do so. In real life, I cannot afford to follow these lines. But that doesn't mean to say I am not very interested in the NEW ideas someone is putting forward. I want to question them, challenge them, provoke them, see them develop and support them as and when I become convinced one step at a time , play the devil's advocate (which is precisely what Lee enjoys and is good at responding to). I don't necessarily subscribe to your point that she should "stick with copper-foil". I would like her to experiment; her circumstances make it a necessity for her so to do . She is not asking for an "easy ride" and words of sweet nothings. It is her, or people like her, that will come through with the next "quality innovation". Luckily, she is BIG enough to take what is "chucked at her" with a bit of a grin and a stubborn glint in her eyes. No I will not rush out tomorrow and buy silicone for my next panel, but will most certainly prick my ears up and listen, ask questions, challenge and provoke. Through her, I have been exposed to quite a lot of new silicone research projects. I will listen, argue and ask. Because the licence has run out, there are - as you so rightly say - so many different qualities of silicone floating about. You really haven't got a clue what it is that you are buying and product descriptions really mean nothing. Silicone compounds are flooding the market and are almost regarded as a kind of "cure-all", the "wonder-product" of the latter 20th Century; everything from mending baths, toilets, leaking plumbing to mending cars to chimneys gets treated with silicone compounds of one kind or another. I have mentioned the idea of "fine balance" less than 6 hours ago, I will do so again... It's a fine balance of encouraging new ideas, embracing them as a "cure-all", to killing off a new thought or a new possibility. Yes, I am a "tradionalist", but I am not deaf, dumb, blind and totally ignorant to the necessity of progress and new innovation... What it amounts to is, that I will want to try and "chuck it at Lee, every argument in the book, every piece that I know of or can conjure up - in Fair Play". She proves me wrong and she will have gained a loyal devotee and supporter. (A friend, she has in any case!). Her particular circumstances demand that she comes up with a new solution to an old dilemma. I don't necessarily agree, but I would like to listen. But then my circumstances are different. I really meant to say this privately and off-group to Lee herself. I started to. The day has only 29 hours, but I think Lee herself got the drift of what I was trying to say. So many things appear to have brewed up, that I will not be ashamed to expose my "small and little brain" publically. What the hell..... Go for it Lee! I promise you an "argumentative ride"!! Game?? ;-) Elisabeth 'n Toby ...and oh, please..., can anyone enlighten me about this Japanese ingredient. What IS it??? Might it be known under a different name; how could I obtain it in the back-waters of UK. ?? "The Plot thickens..." Len, you wrote (and I don't disagree!!): All very true E (glad your still with us) A couple more points on silicone... This info is off the top of my head so be easy on me :-) Silicone caulk has been around for at least 25 years or more it was developed and patented by General Electric and when it came on the market it was a wonder material. I don't know what it was originally developed for but it was quickly adopted by studios that installed protective covering over stained glass ( glass and polycarbonates such as Lexan, another GE product) it adheres tenatiously to glass but not as well to other materials so primers had to be used. And it had other shortcomings as well. But it saved considerable installation time as compared to fabricating frames and stops and/or using putty and was far more versatile. In the early '70's it was going for 6-7 bucks a tube (monopoly) I wonder what that works out to in '97 dollars.. ALOT! Then the patent ran out and the market was and still is flooded with the stuff... cheap! There are many other caulks on the market (most of which are only available commercially) that are formulated for specific applications and perform far better then silicone. Any one wishing to experiment with alternatives to traditional cement might consider researching some of the other caulks. There is another important reason why cement is applied as a FINAL step when fabricating large and/or complicated leaded glass panels and that is the fact that the pieces of glass are constantly being adjusted to comply with the pattern, the panel is shrinking, growing and shifting as you assemble over the course of a day/days... any putty, caulk whatever, added between the glass and lead as you go would not allow for proper manipulation. IMHO Lee... your blessed with an inquisitive nature and thats great, but I also would suggest that you stick :-) with copper foil. Leaded glass work is tough, dirty and physically demanding and its not for everyone. If it wasn't for the adaption of copper foil as a general use technique the art and craft of SG would probably involve just a small fraction of the people that it does today. There is no reason why you shouldn't experiment though, and find out for yourself. Portland cement......Julie stated that it gets too hard which makes it difficult to correct bulges, and it sticks to glass too much. I mentioned that it was corrosive, I'm not sure if thats an issue or not. If someone can respond on that point I would be interested. It is abrasive and can SCRATCH some glass. It is not essential for quality cement. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 10:25:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:25:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun8.31945.0> References: <<199706081520.KAA27362@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The amended cement per Julie's recipe doesn't include any cement. Is this correct? Just checking because I am interested in trying it. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 11:34:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:33:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mc.net!skipm1 From: Skip To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Friendly words Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 13:33:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.83342.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19970608123951.00717b00@pop.bridge.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I will try to take this unhappy experience as a reminder to couch my words > more carefully and with loving intention and to try to extend some welcome > to newbies on the list. > > Peace, > > M.-J. A sincere Thank You for being a voice in the wilderness. While sitting through one of those mamby-pamby personal development seminars, some very interesting statistics were brought up. I'm not going to get the exact numbers but correct, but they're close to within a few points. 60% of the meaning of a statement is lost when visual contact isn't there (i.e. on the phone) 85% of the meaning of a statement is lost when visual AND audio contact are lost (i.e. just in writing) These statistics get better if you know the person on the other end of the communication, but they never get perfect (how many times have we all been angered or confused by table or refrigerator notes from the wife or kids?) My wife doesn't read this group and is unfamiliar with the personalities involved, so I grabbed the Mirror Sealant thread and let her read it and give me some feedback on the recent happenings. I find my perception of people here is somewhat clouded and wanted an independent reading. Her response? "Why did she (Elisabeth) flame him like that?" When I specifically queried her about Mard's response, she agreed that he'd gone overboard, but that he seemed to have good reason to be upset after the way he'd been handled. AFTER I pointed out how Elisabeth (probably, HOPEFULLY!) meant her post, she thought everybody needed to stop and think and start all over. Then I told her about the removal of Mardvark from the group. I won't grace you with those thoughts, but I happen to share them. I frankly don't understand why everybody is so upset. All parties should be reminded of the potential pitfalls in this type of communication, given the opportunity to apologize (BOTH directions -- communications is a two-way exchange) and allowed to continue this intellectual, artistic, scientific and obviously SPIRITED discussion. Will somebody PLEASE enlighten me as to the big problem? - Skip ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 11:52:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:51:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: cyberramp.net!byronw From: byronw@cyberramp.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Scanner recommendation Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:52:58 +0000 Message-ID: <199706081851.NAA22068@mailhost.cyberramp.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: "M.-J. Taylor" > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Scanner recommendation > Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 12:18:07 -0400 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > Lee wrote: > >Next Computer project is to get a good (not expensive) one pass color > >flat bed scanner. Any recommendations? > > > Lee, I bought a Umax S-6e 1 pass scanner a few months ago and am VERY happy with it.... I'm using it at the moment to scan pictures of some of my stained glass panels for a sales brochure I'm working on... Byron.... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 11:52:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:51:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: My humble trade Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:49:47 +0000 Message-ID: <199706081851.TAA24865@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Steph, Your reply and input was a great "pick-me-up" for ME. Would you believe it, but I am quite prepared to go through the experience again, i.e. planning a NEXT trip to Chartres. ANYONE interested???? THIS year, NEXT year in TWO years time??? Replies to me OR Judy Robinson. You wrote: (snip)Thanks for a great pick-me-up! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 11:52:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:51:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Friendly words Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:49:47 +0000 Message-ID: <199706081851.TAA24868@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear M.J. Like yourself I just didn't know whether "mardvark" was a him or her; I had no point of reference, no knowledge, , nothing more than a somewhat categorical statement. Your points are very valid and your input much appreciated. I thinkI might dare to claim to be a champion of beginners, learners and "newbies" Yes, I have been silent and pre-occupied with other things occasionally and not entirely "pulled my weight" 24 hours a day in the Group. But I TOO am learning, there are so many issues raised in this Group that I myself feel I cannot express an informed opinon about. So I observe, listen and keep quiet. Other people with FAR more knowledge and experience in those particular fields are speaking. I bow to their authority without any hesitation.. Mike Savad's 3D cars I find quite awe-inspiring; Howard (when he deigns to grace us with his presence and is not too "miffed" with us... He sort of rather blows hot and cold...) I work in lead, but I also have to teach copper foil to MY students. Mike Savad (and Len) have been unstinting in their inputs, their knowledge and their willingness to respond virtually instantly to a sincere question. That takes some beating!! The amount of bits and pieces I myself have learnt from people like Mike is immeasurable. I will defer to him at ANY time, in ANY case as regards copper foil. He doesn't know it, but he is very high on my "wish-list" for my potential USA visit next year. Oh Boy, have I a lot to learn.!!! It is an equally humbling experience to realize that I myself have something to give to another professional stained glass artist in the way of "teaching" "Maturity" doesn't quite come into it. I don't need to be mature to be captivated by something I see and want to know more about and how it's done. Basic social graces are taught - they have nothing to do with "maturity". Some people are fortunate enough to be taught the basics about simple social discourse. Others are not. They have no other means but to "f" and "blind", to be dismissive and superior. They are probably not desperately happy human beings, so we should wish them well. There is little point in fighting & struggling with them . Thank you M.J . Your point is very valid. Believe it or not, I am a very gentle soul, but when I sniff arrogance, superiority, laziness and sloppiness I am bound to rise. The only thing I will jump on is insincerity. I am a known champion of the beginner , the sincere learner and the "newbie". I will not accept "arrogant sloppiness", whether you are a surgeon, a lawyer, a teacher, a nurse, or a "mere" stained glass artist. I will lean over backwards to create harmony and peace. I am also very direct in my spoken and written language . It frequently surprises people, but English is actually not my mother-tongue. I am Swedish by birth, upbringing , education and mentality. Like Swedish design, the Swedish thought is geared towards simplicity, un-ambiguity and directness in its linguistic expression. It is not designed to harm, hurt or being anything else other than direct, simple and comfortable. It's not designed to harm or hurt; it's designed to help, to care and to be honest. That is my approach to my work also. Occasionally , what I am and what I stand for, offends some somewhere. The only way they can deal with it is through violence, verbal or otherwise. I am saddened by it, but it is people like you who restores my faith in that our particular mission and message IS the right one. As regards of where I stand as regards the trade I "peddle", I think I have already made my feelings, philosophy and attitudes quite clear. That is not to say that I don't enjoy a good debate, a joke or anything else going. I do. Love it. But I don't subscribe to arrogance or violence. Thank you for your input and thank you for your words on my behalf. I hope I deserve your confidence in me.... Elisabeth 'n Toby You wrote: I have no desire to defend the rude and inappropriate words of Mardvark, however, I think there was a point to what he/she said that got buried in the furor. Mardvark posted his/her own experience which was clearly only 3-4 months. The subsequent post by our beloved Elisabeth *seemed* to belittle his/her offering because it was of such insignificant time. Newbies *can* be very sensitive and I can understand how it might have felt like a flame when everyone who has been around here for a while knows it wasn't meant that way. Now, please don't anyone take this wrong. How Mardvark (Madjerk?) handled his discomfort was totally unacceptable from about the third sentence on, and it is absolutely right that this person was expunged, but we might all try to be gentler with one another and especially with people we don't know. Now I know and most everyone here knows that Elisabeth didn't mean anything unkind or even to be personal about it. But we have nothing other than words here (or experience over time with each other) to help us perceive tone and intent. Had Mardvark been able to hear Elisabeth's voice or see the warm expression on her face, he might have felt less rebuked. I do believe we are all responsible for our own emotions, i.e., it really was Mardvark's problem that he took the comment so badly, and so personally, but it's hard not to take a comment personally when one's words have been quoted directly. Indeed, it takes a great deal of maturity to take even gentle criticism with perfect equanimity. I will try to take this unhappy experience as a reminder to couch my words more carefully and with loving intention and to try to extend some welcome to newbies on the list. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 12:16:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:15:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: fast.net!charles From: Charles To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Friendly words Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 15:06:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.11656.0> References: <<1997Jun8.83342.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Skip wrote: > > A sincere Thank You for being a voice in the wilderness. > > My wife doesn't read this group and is unfamiliar with the personalities > involved, so I grabbed the Mirror Sealant thread and let her read it and > > HOPEFULLY!) meant her post, she thought everybody needed to stop and > think and start all over. Then I told her about the removal of Mardvark > from the group. I won't grace you with those thoughts, but I happen to > share them. > > I frankly don't understand why everybody is so upset. All parties should > be reminded of the potential pitfalls in this type of communication, > given the opportunity to apologize (BOTH directions -- communications is > a two-way exchange) and allowed to continue this intellectual, artistic, > scientific and obviously SPIRITED discussion. > > Will somebody PLEASE enlighten me as to the big problem? I agree there was no reason for some of the reactions ALTHOUGH It was inexcusable to attack anyone in the manner Elisabeth was attacked. That being said though, I looked at Mardvark's original posting and took it to mean he only tried the technique for 3-4 months and didn't know if it would work over a longer term. I think it was misunderstood to say "after 3-4 months who cared what happened". I hope he rejoins the group and we all are more temperate (OK more so her). Had to be a woman? Charles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 12:29:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:29:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Friendly words Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:27:14 +0000 Message-ID: <199706081929.UAA27496@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Skip, Wow! that's quite a challenge! Since I am the "villain" in the scenario, I will try to respond as honestly and sincerely as I know how to. I am a trained linguist, I am also a trained historian. And for my sins, I have also been trained in stained glass. I have never made any secret about who I am, what I am about, how old I am, or in deed my practical or emotional commitment to what I believe in. Please accept my input as exactly what I mean it to be, it's not an arrogant piece of dissertation and pontification. I am running the risk of about 400 people being bored out of their minds about theory, philosophy and attitudes. You posted your question to me into the Group. Manner, consideration and social graces requires me to respond in likewise fashion. I am quite happy for the discussion to be ruled "Off Group". With other words, if the Group wants to know, we can continue. But we ought at least to give them the chance to say "bugger off" or not...... I like them too much and what THEY think and feel matters to me.... I am quite happy to enter into debate and discussion Is it on or off Group??? Elisabeth 'n Toby You wrote: While sitting through one of those mamby-pamby personal development seminars, some very interesting statistics were brought up. I'm not going to get the exact numbers but correct, but they're close to within a few points. 60% of the meaning of a statement is lost when visual contact isn't there (i.e. on the phone) 85% of the meaning of a statement is lost when visual AND audio contact are lost (i.e. just in writing) These statistics get better if you know the person on the other end of the communication, but they never get perfect (how many times have we all been angered or confused by table or refrigerator notes from the wife or kids?) My wife doesn't read this group and is unfamiliar with the personalities involved, so I grabbed the Mirror Sealant thread and let her read it and give me some feedback on the recent happenings. I find my perception of people here is somewhat clouded and wanted an independent reading. Her response? "Why did she (Elisabeth) flame him like that?" When I specifically queried her about Mard's response, she agreed that he'd gone overboard, but that he seemed to have good reason to be upset after the way he'd been handled. AFTER I pointed out how Elisabeth (probably, HOPEFULLY!) meant her post, she thought everybody needed to stop and think and start all over. Then I told her about the removal of Mardvark from the group. I won't grace you with those thoughts, but I happen to share them. I frankly don't understand why everybody is so upset. All parties should be reminded of the potential pitfalls in this type of communication, given the opportunity to apologize (BOTH directions -- communications is a two-way exchange) and allowed to continue this intellectual, artistic, scientific and obviously SPIRITED discussion. Will somebody PLEASE enlighten me as to the big problem? ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 12:52:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 12:51:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Straighening panels Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:50:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.115053.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All - With all the talk of good and bad materials lately, Michael brought up a restoration technique he's used over the years - and the question of whether it's a good or bad procedure. In the case of a bowed (leaded and= cemented) window, he has used WD-40 or naptha to soften the cement, thus allowing the panel to be straigtened without breaking any glass. Do eith= er of these substances contain ingredients detrimental to the stained glass piece? Is this an okay practice? It seems to work well in the short run= , but what about the long? Some expert comments would be appreciated! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 13:03:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:03:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:10:33 +0000 Message-ID: <199706082003.QAA28988@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > The amended cement per Julie's recipe doesn't include any cement. Is this > correct? Just checking because I am interested in trying it. Peggy Yes, even though it's called "cement," it shouldn't contain any Portland Cement at all. Adding Portland Cement to the putty mixture is a fairly recent development (the 20s?) and it is one that should be avoided if the long-term welfare of the windows is at all a concern to you as the creator of original works or the restorer of old windows. Albert International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 13:12:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:12:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Friendly words Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:12:34 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Friendly words" on Jun 8, 15:06, Charles writes:] > I hope he rejoins the group and we all are more temperate (OK more so > her). > Had to be a woman? No..it was a man. Let's get back to some stained glass discussions... -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 13:15:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:14:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mc.net!skipm1 From: Skip To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Friendly words Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 15:14:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.101446.0> References: <<199706081929.UAA27496@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Dear Skip, > Wow! that's quite a challenge! > Since I am the "villain"..... ABSOLUTELY NOT !!!! On the record, for the group, I am NOT implying that you were in any way the villian here. The villian lurks within the limitations of the medium to portray emotions and meaning that can prevent understanding and THAT is what I'm trying to understand. There appeared to be some miscommunication in the digital world and people in the REAL world were hurt. I understood your post and understood Mardvark's post. What I didn't understand was the quickness of the retribution and the associated cheering section. With DEEPEST apologies for any confusion, - Skip P.S. Let's continue this OFF group...... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 14:32:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 14:31:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: earthlink.net!ande From: Ande To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Kiln Stuff Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 17:31:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.133140.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any experience with Cerama-Craft Quick Mold release as a substitute to kiln wash? It's a clear silicone release spray. My distributor says it'll work as well as kiln wash when we slump over metal forms. Ande ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 15:41:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Straighening panels Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 18:37:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.143733.0> References: <<1997Jun8.115053.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Everybody, Been off line for a few hours, and wheeeuuu, have the words been flying. ;-) I promise to answer everyone, both on and off group. I don't know about this method, but old cans of wd40 had Propane as a propellant. So the propellant is more than flammable. Just check the can it will say. I am trying to get used to the new Art Pad and a new split keyboard. So taking longer than usual to get messages answered. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > he has used WD-40 or naptha to soften the cement, thus > allowing the panel to be straigtened without breaking any glass. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 15:43:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:43:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: I'm opening a new Gallery/Studio Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:42:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.144233.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello all you helpful people. I just signed a lease for a retail gallery= and studio for my stained glass business. I get to start moving in on Ju= ly 1st. The store is located in a "Historic Village" (read; high tourist fo= ot traffic) area with beautifully landscaped walkways and good signage on tw= o streets. The building is about 450 square feet with one large front display window= and two smaller windows on the side and rear of the building. I am planning on opening it as a combination retail sales of art glass (hot glass artwork and stained glass) in the front of the store, and my own working studio in the back. I do have access to running water and a good= sink for the grinding. The space already has great track lighting and adequate heating/cooling. My question: Any advice yall can give me? This is my first retail store= attempt (and hopefully my last) and I would like to call upon all of your= expertise. Please tell me what works/worked for you, and what to avoid. = Any advice from marketing, to how to run a grand opening, to how to best display art glass art works, to how to best display stained glass art works, etc. will be greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. (soon to be of Skippack, PA) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 16:03:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:02:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:00:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199706082302.AAA08581@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert I too was fascinated by this question of"cement" containing cement or not. OK fne, We seem to have establishud that the "gue" should ideally not contain cement - as we know it. Grouting has been suggested Can we define that a little more.. Then we come to "whiting". Eactly what IS whiting?? My understanding is that it is powdered chalk; yet oither people tell me it's plaster, others again tell me it's a mixture of chalk AND plaster; others again tell me it is dead, inactive plaster. It's white so it's called whiting. There must be more to it than that... So what is it exactly??? Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 16:03:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:02:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Friendly words- the End...? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:00:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199706082302.AAA08585@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk NAAAh Skip!! I am a pussycat - really. I purr easily and willingly. But like any "pussycat", if anyone passes the whiff of the mouse called "integrety and "sincerity" under my nose, my fur stands a little bit on edge. Question the integrety of my colleagues and friends and my back begins to arch a little bit... Shove foul language in my face and my claws start itching... ... I would much rather prefer to puuuuurrrr rrrrr ;-) Language is a wonderful bridge; it is also a terrible obstacle. I know that too. I totally and completely accept your sincerity. No question. no argument.. Reason and technology notwithstanding, we are still human beings and fettered with emotions - rightly or wrongly. So a lot of our spontaneous reactions are triggered by these emotions. We are also Artists with an additional set of conflicting emotions. An hour or so ago I re-read my own posting about my experience in Chartres..... and I thought... Good God, did I REALLY say that??? I really hung my own private emotions out on a public washing line for all to see. I felt it, I did it, I said it and I stand by it. I have no problems with dealing with emotional and spontaneous reactions, nor reasoned arguments or discussions. In fact that is very stimulating. Foul language and abuse I do find difficult to cope with. I thought myself above all of that, but it obviously hit me harder this time than I cared to admit even to myself. I am obviously not quite impervious (sp??) I have made some wonderful connections with people out there. People DO know how I feel and how I care. It's not surprising that they should react the way they do. It's not a "cheering chorus"; it's a spontaneous reaction borne out of "knowing". A subtle difference. I seem to have acquired a reputation or notoriety. I never sought it. It just probably stems from that - even at my ripe old age - I have not learnt to keep my mouth shut Mea culpa Enough of this, the show must go on... you have my e-mail address. Let's spare the Group ... I'm still game for debate... With considerable affection Elisabeth 'n Toby P.S. In the last 12 hours I have been bombarded with private e-mails to the effect, Elisabeth, please don't get upset... I did, I won't, I shan't, so there!! Skip wrote (snip) With DEEPEST apologies for any confusion, ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 17:02:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Scanner recommendation Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 19:58:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.155845.0> References: <<199706081851.NAA22068@mailhost.cyberramp.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Thanks everyone for the scanner recomendations, now I know I can get a good one for under $200. My nieghbor I bumped into down at the pool this afternoon has volunteered his Microteck flat-bed anytime I need to use it, so can put off this purchase for a little while. By the time I get the work done that I want for the pictures, should have some nice stuff to show. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 17:36:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:35:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: My humble trade Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 20:31:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.163133.0> References: <<199706081431.PAA08834@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > If what I create, would only have a life-time of 3-4 months, then I > am in the wrong business; what an insult to Craftsmen before me; what > an insult to the people I am endeavouring to teach, and what an > insult to my colleagues across the world who dedicate their lives to > create beauty, history and sweat blood. Funnily enough, > what a way to insult me, myself. That's not what I am about. > I have no illusion that my stained glass will be so revered, > cherished and treasured 800 years after my demise - as the stained > glass at Chartres. But I do intend to do my best and give my best to > a very ancient and proud craft of many centuries standing, not to > demean it, not to trash it and to try and produce each creation as > something I can be proud of and am willing to put my name to. I also > try and impart the feeling of pride to my students. Over the years I > think there are only 2 individuals whom I have asked most earnestly > never to tell anyone that I taught them. But that's another story... > now if everyone looked at it in this light: if someone were to use a cheap cement mix to make a bridge, or a building; would anyone want it to fall apart in 30-40 years? i know i wouuld'nt want to live there. :) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 17:36:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:36:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 20:32:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.163243.0> References: <<199706081657.RAA17361@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Elisabeth, Thank you as usual for your kind words and encouragement. I have always been driven to try new things. And you know, privately, of course, of my physical condition, and I do consider you a very dear friend. > It may sound like a total contradiction, but I for one, will be very > interested what Lee Boe will or might come up with. You know the old > saying "Necessity is the Mother of Invention." In her case, this is > certainly true. She is a thinker and is inquisitive, she wants to know, > she needs to experiment. Her particular requirements makes her think > the unthinkable and experiment with it. >But that doesn't mean to say I > am not very interested in the NEW ideas someone is putting forward. I > want to question them, challenge them, provoke them, see them develop > and support them as and when I become convinced one step at a time , > play the devil's advocate (which is precisely what Lee enjoys and is > good at responding to). I don't necessarily subscribe to your point that she >should "stick with copper-foil." I would like her to experiment; her > circumstances make it a necessity for her so to do. She is not > asking for an "easy ride" and words of sweet nothings. It is her, or > people like her, that will come through with the next "quality > innovation." Luckily, she is BIG enough to take what is "chucked at > her" with a bit of a grin and a stubborn glint in her eyes. Yup, and even stir it up a little bit. Always with a civil tongue, however, profanity, while not shocking, is in very bad taste. > Through her, I have been exposed to quite a lot of new silicone > research projects. I will listen, argue and ask. > I have mentioned the idea of "fine balance" less than 6 hours ago, I > will do so again... It's a fine balance of encouraging new ideas, > embracing them as a "cure-all", to killing off a new thought or a new > possibility. > Yes, I am a "traditionalist", but I am not deaf, dumb, blind and > totally ignorant to the necessity of progress and new innovation... > Her particular circumstances demand that she comes up with a > new solution to an old dilemma. > > I really meant to say this privately and off-group to Lee herself. I > started to. The day has only 29 hours, but I think Lee herself got > the drift of what I was trying to say. So many things appear to have > brewed up, that I will not be ashamed to expose my "small and little > brain" publicly. What the hell..... > Go for it Lee! I promise you an "argumentative ride"!! Game?? ;-) > Elisabeth 'n Toby Of course, and will report my experiments as they occur. I have gotten so much valuable help in the group, I really appreciate it. > There is another important reason why cement is applied as a FINAL step when > fabricating large and/or complicated leaded glass panels and that is the > fact that the pieces of glass are constantly being adjusted to comply with > the pattern, the panel is shrinking, growing and shifting as you assemble > over the course of a day/days... any putty, caulk whatever, added between > the glass and lead as you go would not allow for proper manipulation. IMHO Since I have not done this, did not think of the adjusting, re-triming, and shifting that goes on when a really big panel is done. Now I know 'why' it is used as a final step. It sets it all up, and weather proofs the panel. > Lee... your blessed with an inquisitive nature and that's great, but I also > would suggest that you stick :-) with copper foil. Leaded glass work is > tough, dirty and physically demanding and its not for everyone. If it wasn't > for the adaptation of copper foil as a general use technique the art and craft > of SG would probably involve just a small fraction of the people that it > does today. There is no reason why you shouldn't experiment though, and find > out for yourself. My physical disabilities don't allow me to do the larger work, or architectural installations. Yes, just what I intend on doing, some of the private posts I've gotten, mention they don't use cement or grout or anything for interior installations. And some of the patterns I've thought of, with few pieces, for interior work, would be nicer in lead I think. Since this has caused so much discussion (which is great) will let you all know how they turn out. It won't be fast though, there are some days I am unable to work at all. Mostly, any day I am able to walk, is a good day. Well, I have now typed enough with this new keyboard, it is fairly easy to get used to, and prevents the 'wrist bind' the regular type has. Has a 'touch pad' too instead of an unruly mouse. This, with the Art pad, is (are) going to make my computer work much easier. Cheers, best wishes, and good will to all. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 17:39:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:38:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Windex Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 20:35:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.16355.0> References: <<1997Jun9.7151.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk daver!telusplanet.net!dwightj wrote: > > Good morning all! Nice to see that we're all still out there. I have a > question about cleaning stained glass panels and whether I have been > misinformed all these years. My stained glass instructor cautioned us > stongly against the use of any ammonia product with lead, such as > Windex, stating that it causes rapid deterioration. I have suffered > endlessly, and perhaps unnecessarily, with cleaning my personal > collection in my home. Does anyone know if Windex does in fact cause > problems, and what are the alternatives? Thanking you in advance. > Sincerely, Lorna email:dwightj@telusplanet.net P.S. Len, thank you > for clarifying that a poor cement mixture can scratch glass. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i heard that windwex can be bad for mirrors, unless stated it can clean mirror. i guess it could hurt lead some. i know the vinegar glass cleaners are a little less harsh, but that would need some experimenting. i really can't see anyting bad happening imediatily, maybe with years of doing it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 17:48:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:48:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Friendly words Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 20:44:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.164419.0> References: <<1997Jun8.83342.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Skip wrote: > > > I will try to take this unhappy experience as a reminder to couch my words > > more carefully and with loving intention and to try to extend some welcome > > to newbies on the list. > > > > Peace, > > > > M.-J. > > A sincere Thank You for being a voice in the wilderness. > > While sitting through one of those mamby-pamby personal development > seminars, some very interesting statistics were brought up. I'm not > going to get the exact numbers but correct, but they're close to within > a few points. > > 60% of the meaning of a statement is lost when visual contact isn't > there (i.e. on the phone) > > 85% of the meaning of a statement is lost when visual AND audio contact > are lost (i.e. just in writing) > > These statistics get better if you know the person on the other end of > the communication, but they never get perfect (how many times have we > all been angered or confused by table or refrigerator notes from the > wife or kids?) > > My wife doesn't read this group and is unfamiliar with the personalities > involved, so I grabbed the Mirror Sealant thread and let her read it and > give me some feedback on the recent happenings. I find my perception of > people here is somewhat clouded and wanted an independent reading. Her > response? "Why did she (Elisabeth) flame him like that?" When I > specifically queried her about Mard's response, she agreed that he'd > gone overboard, but that he seemed to have good reason to be upset after > the way he'd been handled. AFTER I pointed out how Elisabeth (probably, > HOPEFULLY!) meant her post, she thought everybody needed to stop and > think and start all over. Then I told her about the removal of Mardvark > from the group. I won't grace you with those thoughts, but I happen to > share them. > > I frankly don't understand why everybody is so upset. All parties should > be reminded of the potential pitfalls in this type of communication, > given the opportunity to apologize (BOTH directions -- communications is > a two-way exchange) and allowed to continue this intellectual, artistic, > scientific and obviously SPIRITED discussion. > > Will somebody PLEASE enlighten me as to the big problem? > > - Skip > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i think it's mainly that he did'nt just yell at elisabeth, he yelled to us as a group. he did'nt just say you are a real meany, he called us all jerks (more or less). and it really was'nt a big thing either. it's not like she called him a fool, and his technique stank, and his work probably looks like pig vomit, that would be mean and un-called for (since we don't know what the work looks like). ...and i was just stating that as an example mind you. she only mentioned that was a short span of time that he waited (but i could understand that part in which if he could have waited longer he would have, but he did it a couple of months ago, so he had no choice). but then he (sort of) said, why 30-40 years, "i'm not going to be there", i hope that my work could last that long, it would be nice if the mirror lasted that long... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 18:04:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:03:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar From: KrissyMar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Friendly words Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun8.17333.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk All I have to say as a bystander to all this utter nonsense, is the individual who wrote the inappropriate posting may have a serious problem, or is possibly immature. I feel that such an attitude shall not be welcome at my pc at any time. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 18:18:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 18:18:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:25:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199706090118.VAA13354@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Eactly what > IS whiting?? My understanding is that it is powdered chalk; yet > oither people tell me it's plaster, others again tell me it's a > mixture of chalk AND plaster; others again tell me it is dead, > inactive plaster. It's white so it's called whiting. There must be > more to it than that... > So what is it exactly??? This from Julie Sloan's "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," http://www.aiap.com/ with permission: Traditionally, waterproofing compound was composed basically of boiled linseed oil and whiting, with plaster of Paris to extend the mixture, turpentine to thin it, red, white or yellow lead as a drier of the oil, and lamp black to color the compound grey. These six ingredients are found in most recipes for waterproofing putty from the nineteenth century until the mid-1970s, when the use of lead was outlawed in the US. Linseed oil is a drying oil, used as the medium in artists' oil paint. In waterproofing compound, boiled linseed oil is used because it dries more quickly than unboiled oil. The process of drying is not a volatilization; that is, nothing evaporates from linseed oil to leave a solid behind, which is what happens when lacquers or watercolors, for instance, dry. Instead, linseed oil oxidizes and polymerizes, meaning that it absorbs oxygen from the atmosphere, which causes a chemical change in the oil and results in its thickening and hardening. A chemical change cannot be re-versed; set waterproofing compound can never be dissolved to its constituent components of linseed oil and whiting, unlike lacquer, for instance, which can be dissolved in the medium in which it was applied originally. This absorption of oxygen and subsequent chemical change begins to take place when linseed oil is heated or exposed to driers or other chemicals, or to sunlight. This is the beginning of the polymerization process. Boiled linseed oil is not actually boiled; it is heated until oxidation begins, but the boiling point is not reached. Today, "boiled" oil is dried with chemicals. This drying process results in a thicker substance which takes less time to fully polymerize. Ultimately, when applied and left to set in the air, the fully polymerized (or dried) oil becomes hard, very dur-able and waterproof. Although full drying requires literally tens of years (especially in thick applications, such as in a bevel), initial oxidation and drying is achieved in two or three days, after which time a skin or harder surface has formed which may be painted. Sunlight aids in the drying process, although too much sun causes cracking. Whiting is powdered calcium carbonate, or chalk. It is inert, meaning that it reacts chemically with nothing. It has long been used as an inexpensive and inferior white pigment in non-oil paints or an extender for oil paints. Combined with linseed oil, it has a long history as a putty used in repairing paintings, not to mention in the glazing of windows. Plaster of Paris is calcium sulfate. It is produced by roasting gypsum (which is also calcium sulfate) to drive off most of the water bonded to its molecules. This allows plaster of Paris to become active, capable of readily and quickly re-combining with water to form a hard, brittle material. This ability to combine with water is probably not why it was used in putties, where such a hard-setting, brittle, water-soluble ma-terial is not desired. While whiting is used as an extender for oil paints, plaster was considered inferior for this use because of its hygroscopic nature (meaning it absorbs water from the air). However, in linseed-oil putty, plaster is used as an inexpensive extender. In putty recipes, whiting is listed as the principle solid ingredient. Putty can be made without plaster, but not without whiting. While plaster is listed in many (but not all) recipes, it is always in quantities smaller than those required of whiting -- typically, three or four parts whiting to two or three parts plaster. Turpentine is the distillate of resin from coniferous trees. It is a commonly-used solvent for oil painting, having a slower evaporation rate, lower level of flammability, and lower toxicity than solvents such as kerosene, which will also thin linseed oil. As turpentine dries, it becomes thick and viscous, which adds to the putty-like quality of waterproofing compound. Red lead (Pb3O4) is made by heating white lead (basic lead carbonate, 2PbCO3.Pb(OH)2, the corro-sion product of lead exposed to acetic or other organic acids, used for pigments in white paints) or litharge (PbO, also called yellow lead or massicot). None of these lead products is commercially available in the United States today, either uncombined or as part of another substance. Red lead is not primarily used as a pigment in paints because it turns black or brown on exposure to air, but its characteristic as an anti-corrosive made it useful as the primary ingred-ient of rust-inhibiting paints. (The familiar red paint used to prime iron and steel buildings and bridges, most notably the Golden Gate Bridge, was red lead paint.) Although white lead was, for many generations, the principle white paint pigment, lead oxides are more important in paints and putties because they are driers, added to linseed oil to hasten poly-merization. When lampblack is used to color the putty, which slows the drying process, the siccative (or drying) nature of red lead becomes even more important. The red lead in waterproofing compound may have served a dual purpose: to help the waterproofing compound set, and to prime the metal. Since red lead is no longer used in waterproofing compounds, many experienced glaziers and restorers feel that the waterproofing compounds commercially available today are of inferior quality to those available prior to the banning of red and white lead in the United States. They do not set as well or last as long as red lead waterproofing compound. Lamp black (also called carbon black) is a fine, almost pure carbon powder used as a pigment. It is the soot created from burning pet-roleum oils, tars or resins. It has been used since time immemorial as an oil pigment. Used as the coloring agent of waterproofing putty, it will retard the drying of the linseed oil unless driers, like red lead, are added. Today, when we cannot use red lead in putty, it is important that the amount of lampblack used is kept to a minimum. The recipes for waterproofing compound found in stained glass manuals vary. Amounts of materials differ or are not stated and other materials are added depending on the author. These other materials include Japan driers, "patent driers" (metallic salts, usually lead, cobalt, or manganese) and gold size (a fast-drying varnish), added to accelerate the drying of the linseed oil. Some recipes call for "vegetable black" instead of lamp black. (This is a carbon black pigment derived by burning vegetable matter rather than petroleum products.) The most controversial and potentially dangerous ingredient for window putties is Portland cement. It is only in the last thirty to forty years that Portland cement has found its way into glazing putties. Portland cement is a calcined mixture of roughly three parts of calcium carbonate (chalk or limestone) to one part aluminum silicates (clay). Its name derives from the similarity in appearance and hardness to Portland (England) lime-stone. Portland cement sets up in much the same way plaster of Paris does, by reacting with water to create heat. However, whereas plaster sets very quick-ly and is ultimately rather brittle but soluble in water, Portland cement continues to harden for a long period of time and results in a very hard, insoluble material. The reason this material is dangerous to use on windows is its hardness. A leaded glass window must move with the expansion and contraction of the lead came during thermal changes and with wind pressure. As Portland cement hardens and becomes more rigid, it allows the window to move less and less. Because the cement will not flex or crack if the window is forced to move, the glass is likely to break. In addition, because Portland cement is insoluble, it will be virtually impossible to dismantle the panel without breaking glass. It also exhibits excellent adhesion to glass, meaning that even if the panel comes apart, the putty is very difficult to remove from the glass. Modern commercially available putties usually contain elastomers. These are synthetic compounds designed to keep the putty elastic for many years, preventing it from hardening up to a rock-like consistency. None of these has been around long enough for us to know exactly how long they will perform their task. In Europe, butyl mastic is a favored putty with good aging characteristics, but its workability is only fair and it is not presently available in the United States. Most of the recipes require that the waterproofing compound be mixed with enough turpentine and linseed oil to render it somewhat soupy or "thick as treacle" (molasses). It is scooped onto the panel and forced under the flanges of the came using a natural bristle brush. Often it oozes out the opposite side of the panel, which is desirable, according to some of the handbooks, because then you know that the putty has gotten into the groove of the came. However, be cautioned that the putty should not be too runny or there will be nothing left under the flanges when the oozing has stopped. This soupy mixture is not recommended, however, if there is plating on the window. Putty that is runny enough to ooze through the came will continue to ooze between the plates. When plating is present, a stiff, thick putty is a better choice, made by lessening the amount of turpentine used to thin the mixture, or by adding more whiting. It is applied with the thumb, because it is too thick to brush. In much restoration, a thick putty is often recommended because it is easier to control. Thumbing the putty keeps the spread of oil on the glass in check, making cleaning easier. Also, because a stiff putty does not ooze, cleaning will have to performed less often. In plated windows, each layer of plating must be puttied before the next layer can be soldered in place. This creates its own problems, though, if the putty boils as the leads are heated for soldering. Care must be used in this process. If fragile paint or glass exists, even if it has been consolidated, it may not be desirable to subject it to the rigors of being scrubbed with bristle brushes and oily putty. Paint or glass that is textured could trap the putty and be very difficult to clean. Regardless of whether thick or thin putty is used, cleaning the panel after puttying is crucial. Studies in Europe have shown that the oils in putty, if not properly cleaned off the glass, will eventually corrode glass paint. Liberal dusting and rubbing with whiting is the most effective, although some glaziers also swear by sawdust. Use of any of these should be accompanied by wearing a dust mask to prevent aspiration of the dust. As the putty sets, further cutting back and cleaning may be necessary to remove oils that travel to the surface. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 19:53:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 19:52:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 22:49:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.184921.0> References: <<199706090118.VAA13354@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > Exactly what > > IS whiting?? My understanding is that it is powdered chalk; yet > > other people tell me it's plaster, Big snip---------- Thank you Albert-for the short chemistry lesson. These are some of the very questions I had been wondering about. I have saved this post for future reference. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 20:04:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:03:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Friendly words- the End...? Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 22:59:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.185948.0> References: <<199706082302.AAA08585@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi all, Several have writen to ask about why I have a hard time walking, so will share the story-edited-with the group. I fell thru a ceiling in 1989 and broke my back, plus a few other nasties. I have permanent spinal cord damage, and L4,5 neuropathy, and now a fused ankle (that was done in 1993) I am as good as will ever get-the disks, vertebrae, etc., will continue to get worse with age. Not a happy prognosis but it could be worse. To explain-several years ago, I fell through a ceiling while inspecting old termite damage in an attic. (I had a 22 year career as a Real Estate Broker,this ended it) I landed on a concrete garage floor 12 feet below. When I came to, managed to crawl (on my elbows, nothing below my waist would work) out of the garage to the street to get help, a neighbor ran out, ran back to her house and called the ambulance. Verrrrry quick trip to hospital. The result was a broken back, shattered heels, & fractured ankle. Now, years later, I can finally walk some, and stand a short while. Surgerys have been only a partial help, the pain is constant and worse-exercise (weight resistance) and medications are the only real help. That and "zoning out" when I am doing glass or Jewelry-(Did I mention I am a gold-smith???) By zoning-out I mean the zen-like state of intense concentration creating in glass or gold brings. Some days con-currently I have a very hard time getting up, and around, that accounts for long pauses between comunications. So this is my private 'hang out' rather to explain why I have such difficulty with certain things. Best wishes to all. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Toby wrote: > We are also Artists with an additional set of conflicting > emotions. An hour or so ago I re-read my own posting about my > experience in Chartres..... and I thought... Good God, did I REALLY > say that??? I really hung my own private emotions out on a public > washing line for all to see. I felt it, I did it, I said it and I > stand by it. > With considerable affection > Elisabeth 'n Toby > P.S. In the last 12 hours I have been bombarded with private e-mails to > the effect, Elisabeth, please don't get upset... I did, I won't, I > shan't, so there!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 20:20:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!JJH727 From: JJH727@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: deep rose glass Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun8.192013.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You might try using the reverse of Spectrum's whispy pink/while opal; it sometimes is almost rose on the backside. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 20:41:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 20:41:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Friendly words- the End...? Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 23:39:51 EDT Message-ID: <1997Jun9.33951.0> References: <<199706082302.AAA08585@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Don't ever apologize for the beautiful description of the trip to Chartres.you never know where your next thank you is coming from,but here is one with deep appreciation from Don and his Wife of 53 years..No not the end of friendly words!!! Don DeVoto On Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:00:20 +0000 "Toby" writes: >NAAAh Skip!! >I am a pussycat - really. I purr easily and willingly. But like any >"pussycat", if anyone passes the whiff of the mouse called >"integrety and "sincerity" under my nose, my fur stands a little bit >on edge. Question the integrety of my colleagues and friends and my >back begins to arch a little bit... Shove foul language in my face >and my claws start itching... >... I would much rather prefer to puuuuurrrr rrrrr ;-) >Language is a wonderful bridge; it is also a terrible obstacle. I >know that too. I totally and completely accept your sincerity. No >question. no argument.. Reason and technology notwithstanding, we are >still human beings and fettered with emotions - rightly or wrongly. >So a lot of our spontaneous reactions are triggered by these >emotions. We are also Artists with an additional set of conflicting >emotions. An hour or so ago I re-read my own posting about my >experience in Chartres..... and I thought... Good God, did I REALLY >say that??? I really hung my own private emotions out on a public >washing line for all to see. I felt it, I did it, I said it and I >stand by it. I have no problems with dealing with emotional and >spontaneous reactions, nor reasoned arguments or discussions. In fact >that is very stimulating. Foul language and abuse I do find difficult >to cope with. I thought myself above all of that, but it obviously >hit me harder this time than I cared to admit even to myself. I am >obviously not quite impervious (sp??) >I have made some wonderful connections with people out there. People >DO know how I feel and how I care. It's not surprising that they >should >react the way they do. It's not a "cheering chorus"; it's a >spontaneous reaction borne out of "knowing". A subtle difference. >I seem to have acquired a reputation or notoriety. I never sought it. >It just probably stems from that - even at my ripe old age - I have >not learnt to keep my mouth shut >Mea culpa >Enough of this, the show must go on... you have my e-mail address. >Let's spare the Group ... I'm still game for debate... >With considerable affection >Elisabeth 'n Toby >P.S. In the last 12 hours I have been bombarded with private e-mails >to >the effect, Elisabeth, please don't get upset... I did, I won't, I >shan't, so there!! > >Skip wrote (snip) >With DEEPEST apologies for any confusion, > >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 21:18:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 00:13:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.201317.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19970608101714.0069eda4@busprod.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk LJ Maas wrote: > I've been promising myself for the last year or two I would buy an art > tablet...congratulations! Was the installation difficult? Does it plug into > the existing mouse port or have it's own card to install? Lastly, do you > have windows 95, if so how was the plug & play feature? I am using "Designer" and the art pad does work with it. It is a Wacom ArtPad II, I get stuff like this from Microwarehouse. Was only $149, and really worth it. You can really draw with it. It works with all the major graphics applications, and you can put a pattern on it and trace over it. Neat. Microwarehouse is 800-367-7080 I have dealt with them for years and highly recommend them. It just plugs into a spare com/serial port, no card to install inside. I had to try 2 different ports, one without the included adapter, one with, the second one worked. Win 95 found it the second time, and software was easy to install. It works as a mouse too, and you can sit back, hold the e tablet on your lap, and sketch away. >PART OF CAROL SWAN'S QUESTIONS- > What I want to be able to do is essentially sketch and move lines around, as > well as moving images within the border...have you ever drawn a whole window > and then realized that the focal point should be l inch down and 3 inches > over? I'd like to be able to lift that one thing intact, then redraw all > the background cut lines. It will do this with no problem. I am still learning to use it, and the split keyboard and touch pad I just installed. Now I need a larger hard drive to hold all the goodies ;-) I like the PC Concepts keyboard better than the Microsoft split board, it has keys in the middle and minimizes reaching. Check it out at "Best Buy" or Office Depot. I think, this was on sale for $49.00 > > >Next Computer project is to get a good (not expensive) one pass color > >flat bed scanner. Any recommendations? Then, like getting new > >curtains, I'll have to get a bigger hard drive to hold all the stuff. > >Let me know scanner recommendations, please. > > I agree with Shirley...the mustek is a lot of scanner for the money! My > partner and I purchased the same model for the business. It came with PC > and Mac software! Take a look at my web pages and you can see a sampling > of what it can do...all the PICS there were scanned with the mustek. > LJ Very nice, LJ, for right now my neighbor said I could use his anytime, think he said it is a Microtec, so that solves that for a while. Now to get the nose to the grindstone(glasscutter) and get the fall inventory made up. I want to do some really nice things for the web site, there is so many really super glass web sites up now. Best wishes, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 8 21:27:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 21:26:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: cswnet.com!cklooste From: Chris Kloosterman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: take off mailing list Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:25:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.52532.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: progress radio Precedence: bulk Please take me off the mailing list. thanks Ruth ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 02:33:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 02:32:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 05:39:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199706090932.FAA18219@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Big snip---------- > Thank you Albert-for the short chemistry lesson. These are some of the > very questions I had been wondering about. I have saved this post for > future reference. Hope it was helpful, Lee. I was kind of embarrassed that it was so long, but every time I looked for something else to cut, it seemed too important to drop. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 05:33:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 05:32:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 05:32:06 -0700 Message-ID: <199706091232.FAA22403@mars.ark.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert.. What kind of scanner (model etc.) do you use and recommend for someone only using for personal use? Also, could you 'mail' me info onhow to join your organization and what benefits etc? Thanks......Wayne > >> Let me know scanner recommendations, please. >> >> I am still trying to get set up for a web site, slow,slow going. > >Lee, > >I've been using Microtek scanners for a few years and am very happy >with them. As for web pages, you know that Guild members get free >web pages, right? Save yourself some trouble and get a number of >other benefits, as well. [end of promo piece] ........... Wayne Munro 'Snail-Mail'-2960 Suffield Road, Courtenay, B.C. Canada, V9N-3V5 E-Mail Address--wmunro@mars.ark.com Phone and Fax--(250) 338-5507 Cell--(250) 720-7175 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 05:52:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 05:51:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bcpl.lib.md.us!panthony From: The Anthonys To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Subject: AGSA show in Balto Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 08:49:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.44954.0> References: <<199706090932.FAA18219@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Albert, can you quickly point me to the web site info for the AGSA show? I can't seem to find the link. --SB (Pat) Anthony ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 06:55:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 06:54:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: I'm opening a new Gallery/Studio Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706091354.JAA14863@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie wrote, <<. I just signed a lease for a retail gallery= > >and studio for my stained glass business. I get to start moving in on Ju= >ly >1st. The store is located in a "Historic Village" (read; high tourist fo= >ot >traffic) area with beautifully landscaped walkways and good signage on tw= >o >streets. >> >My question: Any advice yall can give me? This is my first retail store= > >attempt (and hopefully my last) and I would like to call upon all of your= > >expertise. Please tell me what works/worked for you, and what to avoid. = > >Any advice from marketing, to how to run a grand opening, to how to best >display art glass art works, to how to best display stained glass art >works, etc. will be greatly appreciated... Run for the hills???? Only teasing......................and I guess I should be careful. Congratulations!!! And my best wishes to you on a successful venture. Advice???? Hmmmm.......a Historic tourists area? Well get ready for not having five seconds to do any of your commission work. We had a retail store in Historic Haddonfield. And I loved every minute of it. When I went home at night my jaws hurt from smiling all day. Just think of it as doing a show everday of the week. We had alot of small pieces that people could buy as a rememberence of their journey to our town. Haddonfield's symbol of hospitality is a pineapple .............................so we overdosed in pineapples.........................they flew out the door. So if Skippack has some sort of logo or theme................do it. People love things they can buy for children. SSooooo we did alot of painted pieces of fairy tales. Ones that were public domain. But the best time I had was at Christmas. What fun to decorate the shop and celebrate with the town. The first Christmas I was open I actually sold everything that was in the shop. One night I had to go back to the studio and clear out all the inventory there. Oh one other thing......always keep a book for customers to sign in.....names,address and such. Great for mailing lists. I also think a good idea is to be involved with the local Merchants Association. Easy to pick up on some collaborative advertising. Which can be less expensive. I will give details offline. You can also look for remenant space from local papers. These ads if you feel you need them will cost close to nothing. A Grand Opening!!!!!!!!!!!!! Been there quite recently. I am still finding carrot sticks where they shouldn't be. Invite the world. And some will come. In you business plan you should have an advertising budget for you slow times. I also have a list of faxes for free press. I will email them to you. Put together a press release and send it out. Call the local newpaper and see if they will do something of this wonderful venture. I got hundreds of things that work.................I won't bore the group with them all. I will be in touch offline. my best and much success!!!! pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 06:57:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 06:57:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: AGSA show in Balto Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706091356.JAA24340@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Pat, > can you quickly point me to the web site info for the AGSA show? >I can't seem to find the link. I happen to have the newsletter here. Their URL is: http://www.creative-industries.com/source/ Stephanie Delphi Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 07:07:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 07:06:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bcpl.lib.md.us!panthony From: The Anthonys To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Subject: Re: AGSA show in Balto-sorry Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:05:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.6541.0> References: <<1997Jun9.44954.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk sorry Bunginians, I meant to mail Albert directly. --SB ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 07:23:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 07:22:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!CALJAYNES From: CALJAYNES@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Foul-mouthed little twerp Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun9.53659.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am sorry, but whom are you referring to? Me (caljaynes@aol.com?) I hope not because I obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about. In the future, if you balst someone, make sure the name of the individual is included as these replies go to the world... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 07:39:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 07:38:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen From: David Cogen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Mon, 9 Jun 97 09:53:42 -0400 Message-ID: <9706090953.AA02253@LL.MIT.EDU> References: <<1997Jun7.23310.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > At work I have a pen and graphics tablet capibilities. Sliced bread > doesn't even come close! Coming home and going back to a mouse makes > my hand cramp so I now do all my designing at work during lunch! Enjoy! > You are about to get really spoiled! I am thinking of getting one too. I believe they come in several sizes, and the larger ones are quite expensive. Can I get along with the smallest? Can I configure the tablet to represent a small part of the screen? Otherwise it seems that movement on the smallest tablet would translate to unacceptably coarse movements on the screen. *** Also: I just got "FreeHand" for the Macintosh. I wanted to learn it so here's what I did. 1) Took my latest S.G. pattern, drawn using hand, ruler, and compass on paper. Cut it up into 6 sections (first drawing registration marks so I could realign them later). Scanned them into the computer as 6 separate TIFF files. 2) Imported them into Freehand (setting the transparency property). Tediously adjusted rotation and position to precisely align them. Named this layer the "scan" layer. This scanned poorly, the original being faint pencil, but was sufficiently readable for tracing. 3) Created a new layer, the "lines" layer. On this, I set the line width to the leaded foil width, and traced all the lines from the scan layer. I used the line tool, rectangle, polygon, but especially the very useful "Beziergon" tool, which lets me specify curves very conveniently and adjustably. Also liberal use of knife tool. 4) These lines are nice but they are not closed shapes so they cannot be colored. So created a third layer, the "shapes" layer. On this, using mostly the Beziergon tool, I traced closed shapes over the lines of the lines layer. Made groupings for collections of shapes I know I want to be the same color. 5) (This is where I am at now.) Experimenting with colors. I create symbolic names for colors I like and try different combinations. With the color calibration tables supplied with the Mac system, the screen colors can be closely matched to the colors on my printer (Epson Stylus 500, I think). Conclusions: too soon to say. But I definitely would not buy a specialized product like the "Stained Glass Designer" program we've heard about here recently; they couldn't possibly put all the features of a program like Freehand with 10000's of man-hours put into it over many years. However, in Freehand I find no way to easily take my lines layer and color between them directly. That is why I needed to create a shapes layer by tracing closed shapes over the lines layer. Perhaps by using Freehand to design the basic lines, then import into a paint program (like "ColorIt") to do the color fills? Anyone familiar with ColorIt? Does it have a "paint bucket" capability? But as a design program, I do like Freehand. With a graphics tablet, I could definitely see myself doing the entire design on the computer next time, with no paper at all. -- David ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 07:57:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 07:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: msn.com!jazzykid From: "Jill Medlyn" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: pj's patterns in public domain Date: Mon, 9 Jun 97 14:55:01 UT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk pj, You mentioned patterns that were in the public domain. How do you go about finding thoughs,not counting, of course, the patterns available here in the archives. Thanks, jazzykid ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 08:16:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: SusieHUs@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Friendly words Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun9.71557.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 97-06-08 16:16:40 EDT, you write: << I understood your post and understood Mardvark's post. What I didn't understand was the quickness of the retribution and the associated cheering section. >> Skip, I'll address this since I was all for having him booted and still am. As I said in my other posting about this, I am all for a good debate and learn a great deal by sitting back and listening here. BUT, I can see no excuse for language like that on this list and the absolute attack of his words. He can disagree all he wants but character assasination is not appreciated nor needed. So if that now makes me one of the bad guys because I decided to make my feelings known about this, then so be it. But I wouldn't stand by silently and watch someone get mugged in person and I saw no reason to just blow it off because it was happening here. If anyone feels the need to reply to me, please do so to me email so we can put this to rest. Thank you. Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 08:18:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: bashful To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Friendly words Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:15:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.41539.0> References: <<1997Jun8.83342.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Heretics United Precedence: bulk Skip wrote: > > Will somebody PLEASE enlighten me as to the big problem? > Step up on soap box - The big problem is you are dealing with humans. Add to that, you are dealing with humans from all over the globe. Cultural and ethnic diversity leave this form of communication open to all types of problems. Standards of language can create offenses, not intended. People believe strongly in their own opinions. The best way to get a bad reaction from a fellow human being is to question or attack their belief system. I don't intend to offend anyone, or sound so down on my fellow man/women, but I belong to 4 mailing lists, about subjects ranging from glass, beer brewing, barbeque, blues music, and read many USENET newsgroups, and they ALL go through this, some multiple times a year. Some are unintentional, happening because of a misunderstanding. Some are created by some misfit, who goes to a WEB page that lists mailing lists, subscribes to some, then starts sabotaging the group. My BBQ list just suffered a slew of offensive posts, ending up with being mailbombed by the offender. He repeately posted the news digests over and over again. Humankind has been sucessfully killing themselves off over differences since before recorded history. You can't make everybody happy. Don't bother to try. Just try to be nice. We had some major flack a few months ago after someone innocently posted a JPEG to the whole list. I posted a request not to do it anymore, as it crashed my mail reader, and trashed my ISP's server. I asked that people be polled, and the files emailed direct to whomever wanted them. I received some unpleasant mail, that stated that I shouldn't flame a newbie. My intention was to inform, not criticize. Evidently not everyone saw it that way. As a follow up to that volley, I posted an offer to those who might not be computer fluent, to answer questions if people were unsure as to what they were doing. Step off soap box - My basic advice - don't mail anything you wouldn't be happy reading if it was mailed to you. If someone regularly posts things you don't want to read, use the DELETE key. The Supreme Being put it there for a reason. Do no harm. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 08:20:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:19:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:18:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706091518.KAA14637@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > >Hope it was helpful, Lee. I was kind of embarrassed that it was so >long, but every time I looked for something else to cut, it seemed >too important to drop. > Hi Albert, Very informative post, thanks. Sometimes intuitive answers work, other times empirical based answers get job done, then there are the times science has the answers, as in this case pertaining to the cement thread. Julie's restoration book really should be in every serious SG persons reference library. I plan on ordering one even though I might have to deal with *old horse new tricks syndrome* ;-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 08:59:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:58:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: B J Snell To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: I'm opening a new Gallery/Studio Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:54:00 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970609115347.006e69e0@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello Cristie.... Check out this site http://entrepreneurmag.com/aea.hts It is for the American Entrepreneurs Association. I joined a few years ago and cannot tell you how helpful the information has been to me. I was advised of this group by a small business owner and in the spirit would like to pass on the info. At 06:42 PM 6/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hello all you helpful people. I just signed a lease for a retail gallery= > >and studio for my stained glass business. I get to start moving in on Ju= >ly >1st. The store is located in a "Historic Village" (read; high tourist fo= >ot >traffic) area with beautifully landscaped walkways and good signage on tw= >o >streets. > >The building is about 450 square feet with one large front display window= > >and two smaller windows on the side and rear of the building. I am >planning on opening it as a combination retail sales of art glass (hot >glass artwork and stained glass) in the front of the store, and my own >working studio in the back. I do have access to running water and a good= > >sink for the grinding. The space already has great track lighting and >adequate heating/cooling. > >My question: Any advice yall can give me? This is my first retail store= > >attempt (and hopefully my last) and I would like to call upon all of your= > >expertise. Please tell me what works/worked for you, and what to avoid. = > >Any advice from marketing, to how to run a grand opening, to how to best >display art glass art works, to how to best display stained glass art >works, etc. will be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks a bunch! >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. (soon to be of Skippack, PA) >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 09:04:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:04:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 12:00:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.8027.0> References: <<9706090953.AA02253@LL.MIT.EDU>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi David, Can't really answer all your questions on the Freehand program, in addition to American Bevel 'Designer' and Dragonfly's 'Glass Eye,' & Glass Magic 3.0 you can try out the first two for yourself, to see if either will help you. Glass Magic is a good little program for boxes and such, retails for about $30 at most SG stores. Go to http://www.americanbevel.com/ for Designer and http://www.dfly.com/ For Glass eye. Both are available in Demo versions (full featured except for save & print functions) I think. You can try them both for free just for the download. I am still learning Designer, and also have Corel Draw, CD version for my PC (don't have a Mac) One, both, or neither, may suit your needs. Now I am learning to coordinate the Art Pad tablet with both. The Wacom tablets are available in several sizes and you can set the field you use. If you have the MacWarehouse catalog, they are listed in there. http://www.warehouse.com/ is where both Microwarehouse and MacWarehouse has on line catalogs. Hope this helps, I plan to spend most of the week getting up to speed with the new 'toys'. I have the 4 x 5 tablet, and have to reset the field to line up with the approx. 8 1/2 x 11 inch viewable area of my 15.7 computer screen. Not very good at it yet, but learning. Lee Boe rain-Boe's Creations David Cogen wrote: > > I am thinking of getting one too. I believe they come in several sizes, and the > larger ones are quite expensive. Can I get along with the smallest? Can I > configure the tablet to represent a small part of the screen? Otherwise it > seems that movement on the smallest tablet would translate to unacceptably > coarse movements on the screen. > > *** > big snip> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 10:06:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:05:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: hiline.net!rgvmuse From: Rio Grande Valley Museum To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 12:17:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.7178.0> References: <<199706072242.XAA28555@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HiLine Internet Customer Precedence: bulk Friends, I freely admit I have neither the experience nor the expertise of many of you. However, I would like to comment on this silicone issue. I haven't tried it in stained glass, but I have aquariums(aquaria?) made with silicone as a sealant that we've hauled all over the US and they've been subjected to climate extremes as well as u-haul and professional movers. Some we've had for longer than 15 years. My father-in-law has several he's had for over 20 years and they go out in the garden and back into the cellar as need presents (and hold goldfish and koi every winter). Maybe it will work well with s.g., maybe not. I'm glad, though, that people are willing to look at modern materials and try new techniques. In my opinion, that's the only way we can continue to learn and progress. Linn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 10:09:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:09:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:04:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970609033341.1c9f11be@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elizabeth; Thanks you for your letter.... makes me all the more determined to make the trip to France someday!!! Meg Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 13:41:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:40:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: 1st.net!glasqult From: Joni Tornwall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Windex Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 16:45:41 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.164541.0> References: <<1997Jun9.7151.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > My stained glass instructor cautioned us > stongly against the use of any ammonia product with lead, such as > Windex, stating that it causes rapid deterioration. I have suffered > endlessly, and perhaps unnecessarily, with cleaning my personal > collection in my home. Does anyone know if Windex does in fact cause > problems, and what are the alternatives? Dear Lorna and everyone-bungi, My stained glass instructor also cautioned us against using ammonia or anything strongly alkaline or acidic, particularly in restoration work which is his area of expertise. There are glass cleaners out there that do not have ammonia, but they have other things like alcohol. I have been using the commercial spray on glass cleaners to clean my stained glass. Please, what are the more experienced people out there using to clean that haze off that the oil in the cement and the whiting leaves? And what are you using to clean for routine maintenance? Thank you, Joni ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 15:09:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:09:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:06:43 +0000 Message-ID: <199706092208.XAA05349@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dani, In all the hoo-ha, I can't even remember if I said "thank you" for the recipe, amendments and all. So thank you. I have been totally fascinated by the variety of discussions this has led to; including the silicone topic. Glad you enjoyed my web-site. It's far from finished yet. It all takes time. Yes, and Toby is very handsome! (He knows it too) Many thanks again. Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 15:09:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:09:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Cement, whiting, plaster etc. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:06:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199706092208.XAA05379@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert, That was a superb rendition you gave us. I enjoyed it immensely and found it very helpful. I realize you didn't write it, but you put a lot of effort into sharing it with us. Many Thanks! Elisabeth 'n Toby ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 15:09:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:06:43 +0000 Message-ID: <199706092208.XAA05361@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Len Alcamo Oh dear me.... more questions, I'm afraid. I may be totally stupid here, Len, but do you mean GROUT, as used with tiles (e.g. bathroom) ??? Sorry if I appear a nerd.... I seem to have this terrible difficulty with language ..... ;-) Elisabeth 'n Toby Len wrote: OBTW... I've generally used the term cement, but when client confusion set in I would also describe the material as a grout which really is a more descriptive and accurate term... IMHO ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 15:43:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:42:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:48:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199706092241.SAA21572@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > library. I plan on ordering one even though I might have to deal with *old > horse new tricks syndrome* ;-) I get the impression that it's the "new tricks" that she doesn't think work particularly well ... or we don't know enough about their long-term effects for her to recommend them. When you adopt the point of view that antique windows are not only American heritage in the custodial care of their owners and that the old glass is the artistic expression of those who created it, you're less anxious (or willing) to do anything that would damage the works' longevity or artistic expression. Of course, there are a *few so-called restorers who happily repaint heads to their *personal vision of what the heads should look like, rather than preserving and restoring what the original artists had done, as one example, but then arrogance isn't restricted to doctors and lawyers. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 15:43:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:41:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: pj's patterns in public domain Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:48:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199706092241.SAA21567@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > You mentioned patterns that were in the public domain. How do you go about > finding thoughs,not counting, of course, the patterns available here in the > archives. The patterns in the archives are in the public domain? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 15:43:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:41:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: putty vs. silicone Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:48:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199706092241.SAA21539@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Maybe it will work well with s.g., maybe not. I'm glad, though, that > people are willing to look at modern materials and try new techniques. > In my opinion, that's the only way we can continue to learn and > progress. Experimentation's fine, I think, but the sealant people guarantee their stuff for what, 20 years? And a properly leaded and puttied panel will last 100-150 years before it will require attention. To use something that saves a few hours/days of work now, but loses 80-130 years in longevity for the window is a disservice to the window and the client, IMHO. Albert International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 15:44:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:42:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:48:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199706092242.SAA21599@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > What kind of scanner (model etc.) do you use and recommend for someone > only using for personal use? Also, could you 'mail' me info onhow to join > your organization and what benefits etc? I've been using Microtek scanners for a few years and am very happy with them. I've got two ... a flatbed scanner that cost about $350, although they're cheaper these days, and a slide scanner that was about $800. Information about the Guild, its programs and benefits can be found at the address below. Or did you want me to snail-mail a package? I can do that, but I'll need your mailing address. Albert International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 15:44:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:41:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: AGSA show in Balto Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:48:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199706092241.SAA21557@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > can you quickly point me to the web site info for the AGSA show? > I can't seem to find the link. Aw, someone else beat me to it. albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 16:49:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:48:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 18:50:56 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.185056.0> References: <<1997Jun9.8027.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > Go to > http://www.americanbevel.com/ > for Designer and > http://www.dfly.com/ > For Glass eye. Unfortunately neither of these programs is available for the Mac, so don't bother unless you are supremely blessed with the "both platforms" Mac. As of four months ago, neither one had plans to publish it for the Mac either. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 16:57:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:57:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: telusplanet.net!dwightj From: telusplanet.net!dwightj To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: silicone research vai NASA Date: Mon Jun 9 16:56:57 1997 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.143157.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I have received numerous off group requests to keep individuals informed on any research on silicone. Tracy Anderson, project engineer, of the Kennedy Space Centre of the NASA Technology Outreach Program Office has responded to my request for research on silicone. They have had extensive experience using this product on their rockets! Jim Aliberti, Manager of Technology in the Transfer and Commercialization Department of NASA has also responded. In order for Tracy to formally enter this request into their program, they have requested that I complete a form, which I am in the process of doing. They will arrange telephone discussion with myself to expediate the outcome. Many of you have specific questions that you would like answered. So far, they have mainly related to silicone's longevity, reaction to environmental pollutants and stressors, strength, reaction to cleaning compounds (windex), adhesive resistance to removal from glass or out of a pane, which has been cured. If you have other questions or concerns that you would like addresses, please feel free to contact me through my personal email, or through the group, whatever your preference. I am not making any promises that they will be able to answer our questions but will do my best to get further info. I am following the thread to this issue and the feedback, pro and con, is very stimulating and has taken me into a dimension that I never dreamed I would be exploring. Take care. Sincerely, Lorna email: dwightj@telusplanet.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 17:20:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:20:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: I'm opening a new Gallery/Studio Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 19:22:33 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.192233.0> References: <<1997Jun8.144233.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > Hello all you helpful people. I just signed a lease for a retail gallery= > > and studio for my stained glass business. Hi Christie! Having never owned a gallery I have only one piece of advice: Take all the good wishes you can! Here are lots of mine! Put me on the mailing list for the grand opening. Best of luck. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 17:22:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: My humble trade Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 19:24:47 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.192447.0> References: <<199706081431.PAA08834@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk Dear Elisabeth and Toby, Thank you for the lovely post. Scratch Toby's ears for me. Best, Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 17:25:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:25:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 20:21:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.162115.0> References: <<1997Jun9.185056.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Oppps, did not know that. I have a PC so most everything works on it. This new keyboard and the tablet are going real great, and the control panel on the Wacom lets me set the field of the drawing, to the size of the drawing window. Neat. Still learning. Lee Hilary A. Bobker wrote: > > > Go to > > http://www.americanbevel.com/ > > for Designer and > > http://www.dfly.com/ > > For Glass eye. > > Unfortunately neither of these programs is available for the Mac, so > don't bother unless you are supremely blessed with the "both platforms" > Mac. As of four months ago, neither one had plans to publish it for the > Mac either. > > Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 17:43:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 17:43:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire From: Doug Scale To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Chartres trip. Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 20:39:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.163956.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elizabeth, Loved your description of your trip. Hopefully more of us from this side of the pond can visit in the coming years. Boy, and to think over here something is old if its 50 -100 years and absolutley ancient if it's a couple hundred!! Glass that is 800 years old is hard to imagine from our young standards in Canada and the US. Doug Scale ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 18:13:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:13:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: I'm opening a new Gallery/Studio Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun9.171315.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Never owning a business all I could do is to wish you success beyond your expectations. It will be a lot of hard work but in the end, it is worth it. Lots of good luck Bubstah ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 18:22:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:22:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: limestone.kosone.com!dagenais From: Rod Dagenais To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 21:22:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.172251.0> References: <<199706090118.VAA13354@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Mystic Glass Precedence: bulk I'm insterested into making my own cement, but could someone tell me what is "LAMP BLACK"!!!!! Thank You Rod Dagenais ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 18:28:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:28:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: I'm opening a new Gallery/Studio Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 21:24:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.172454.0> References: <<1997Jun9.171315.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk My best wishes also, and with success $$$$ I hope you have a lot of fun!!! One thing about doing glass, I find it a lot of fun, even if I found it late in life. Had always wanted to do metal & glass, so now I do. If you want to do something don't put it off, you never know what life brings you, around the next corner. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 19:21:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:21:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nobleco.net!glass From: "Wallace, Paul" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Windex Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:20:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.222022.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > misinformed all these years. My stained glass instructor cautioned us > > stongly against the use of any ammonia product with lead, such as > > Windex, stating that it causes rapid deterioration. I have suffered > > endlessly, and perhaps unnecessarily, with cleaning my personal > > collection in my home. Does anyone know if Windex does in fact cause > > problems, and what are the alternatives? Thanking you in advance. > > Sincerely, Lorna email:dwightj@telusplanet.net P.S. Len, thank you > > > i heard that windwex can be bad for mirrors, unless stated it can clean > mirror. i guess it could hurt lead some. i know the vinegar glass > cleaners are a little less harsh, but that would need some > experimenting. i really can't see anyting bad happening imediatily, > maybe with years of doing it. > I used windex once or twice in a pinch but to be honest was not overly impressed with the cleaning ability. We use a product called clear vue ( got it at Sams or Walmart. It is am alcohol based product does a nice job of cleaning. Paul Bumblebee Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 19:38:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:37:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Windex Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:37:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.18370.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Joni - You asked what we use to clean the oily haze off the window after cementing. We don't seem to have a problem with excess oil. Are you usi= ng enough whiting to absorb the oil residue? The glass should sparkle and t= he came should glow when you're finished. If you are making your own cement= , Michael suggests trying mineral spirits instead of turpentine... maybe th= at is creating problem. After the cement sets up, if you do have a bit of o= il bleed around the edges of the lead, just detail with a clean cloth and an= orange stick. Does that help? Best regards, Dani Greer = Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 21:14:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:13:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: crl.com!slally From: Sean Lally To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Mon, 9 Jun 97 21:13:30 -0700 Message-ID: <199706100410.AA09274@mail.crl.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I just got "FreeHand" for the Macintosh. I've been using Illustrator for the mac in much the same way you describe using Freehand. It's a great program which might give you some more freedom as far as coloring your designs goes. I usually just print the line art out and color it with pencils though. It just seems easier than trying to create the 'textures' on the computer. I did recently try scanning in glass samples in hopes that I might use them for coloring, but so far that hasn't been very sucessful for me. On an unrelated note; I just wanted to say I haven't participated/lurked on a forum/newsgroup/maillist with such a feeling of community since I was last on the wine and beer forum on CompuServe many years ago. I've certainly never seen anything like this anywhere else on the Internet. Thanks for the civility. Sean ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 21:32:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:32:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: msn.com!jazzykid From: "Jill Medlyn" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 04:30:53 UT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sorry Albert, my mistake. I didn't know the patterns in digest were copyrighted. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 22:09:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: deep rose glass Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 22:11:01 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.16111.0> References: <<1997Jun7.11718.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Hi Dee, How does one get in touch with Art Glass House? e-mail? snail mail? phone? I'm very interested in the cranberry glass. Thanks, T. in Montana Dee l Plott wrote: > > Bull's Eye has a gorgeous cranberry glass that works well for deep > colored flowers. Art Glass House in Florida would probably send you > samples. > dee > studioone1@Juno.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 9 22:17:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:16:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Windex Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 22:18:48 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun9.161848.0> References: <<1997Jun9.164541.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk I've been using Sprayway commercial glass cleaner, available at Price Costco (sometimes), otherwise at my local window and auto glass repair shop. T. in Montana My stained glass instructor also > cautioned us against using ammonia or anything strongly alkaline or > acidic, particularly in restoration work which is his area of > expertise. There are glass cleaners out there that do not have ammonia, > but they have other things like alcohol. I have been using the > commercial spray on glass cleaners to clean my stained glass. Please, > what are the more experienced people out there using to clean that haze > off that the oil in the cement and the whiting leaves? And what are you > using to clean for routine maintenance? Thank you, Joni ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 01:25:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 01:24:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: I'm opening a new Gallery/Studio Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun10.02443.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie, That goes ditto for me. Lots of luck and best wishes in your new endeavor! The area for your location is really "Prime". As they say in the real estate business,"location, location, location", the 3 most important things about a property. By all means, send me a notice too, of your Grand Opening and if I am not working I will be there. Eleanor ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 02:35:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 02:34:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:41:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199706100934.FAA29135@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > I'm insterested into making my own cement, but could someone tell me > what is "LAMP BLACK"!!!!! Lamp black (also called carbon black) is a fine, almost pure carbon powder used as a pigment. It is the soot created from burning petroleum oils, tars or resins. Albert International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 02:35:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 02:34:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: deep rose glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:41:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199706100934.FAA29132@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > How does one get in touch with Art Glass House? e-mail? snail > mail? phone? I'm very interested in the cranberry glass. Their address, etc. (and about 600 other companies') is in the Sources Guide online, free of charge, address below. Albert International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 05:27:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:26:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Lamp black Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:25:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970610082555.006b6948@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Lamp black (also called carbon black) is a fine, almost pure carbon >powder used as a pigment. It is the soot created from burning >petroleum oils, tars or resins. > >Albert So do you have to collect your own, or is there a source for it? I own an old house, and used to be able to buy Dap putty in the black color, (all 47 of my windows are painted black, and the white putty sticks out like a sore thumb.) but in my small town it is no longer available. I could add lamp black, if I could find it, but no luck there either. Any sources for lamp black????? Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 05:44:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:44:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar From: KrissyMar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lamp black/stove black Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun10.44421.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Another name for lamp black is stove black, if I am correct. You can find it in many hardware stores and also in shops that deal with woodstoves, etc. I have seen it in liquid form, and that seems to be fine for the purpose of making cement. Comes in small bottles and is really quite inexpensive. I bet Wal-MArt may even have some. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 06:04:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:03:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lamp black Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:10:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199706101303.JAA04907@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Any sources for lamp > black????? Try art supply stores ... or an online search? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 06:23:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:23:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bcpl.lib.md.us!panthony From: The Anthonys To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Subject: Re: Lamp black Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:22:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.52218.0> References: <<3.0.32.19970610082555.006b6948@mail.bright.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Our local hardware store carries lamp black as one of the colors of a product called "Tintsall". It comes in small tubes, kinda like toothpaste. There is also a wide range of other colors. I've used them to color putty, paint, concrete, etc. --SB glasschic wrote: > > So do you have to collect your own, or is there a source for it? I own an > old house, and used to be able to buy Dap putty in the black color, (all 47 > of my windows are painted black, and the white putty sticks out like a sore > thumb.) but in my small town it is no longer available. I could add lamp > black, if I could find it, but no luck there either. Any sources for lamp > black????? > > Garden of Glass > Joyce Moran > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 06:44:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:43:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: telalink.net!wood From: wood@telalink.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: cement recipe Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:44:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.34426.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Here is the cement recipe I was given when I learned to do leaded windows: 1 part boiled linseed oil, 1/2 part turpentine, color, and enough whiting to make the consistency that you wish. For color we use black paint tint from the paint store. A little goes a long way. I mix my cement to a thick consistency and thumb push it under the lead came. I clean up with whiting, let it sit for 24 hrs., then turn and repeat for the other side. I clean the glass with Hi-Sheen, then rub polishing compound over the came, dry to a haze, rub off, add black patina, let dry thoroughly, then brush. I use a horse hair brush (brush made of hair from horses) to polish the lead to a shiny black. Question: Is there such a thing as black whiting or how would one tint it black? Not very often, but sometimes I get just a few spots that tend to show some of the white color of the whiting that I used to clean it. The horse hair brush usually takes care of it, but it would be nice not to have it to begin with. Sandy Creations In Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 06:44:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:43:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: FW: Lamp black Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:43:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.54328.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- Lamp Black is used by shooters to dull their gun sights and can be purchased from any shooting supply store. Or from: Dixie Gun Works P.O. Box 130 Gunpowder Lane Union City, Tennessee 38261 901-885-0561 http://www.dixiegun.com/index.htm This lamp black is in powdered form and VERY strong - that is a little goes a very long way. Linda ---------- So do you have to collect your own, or is there a source for it? I own an old house, and used to be able to buy Dap putty in the black color, (all 47 of my windows are painted black, and the white putty sticks out like a sore thumb.) but in my small town it is no longer available. I could add lamp black, if I could find it, but no luck there either. Any sources for lamp black????? Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 07:02:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:02:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:01:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706101401.JAA06934@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 11:06 PM 6/9/97 +0000, Toby wrote: >Dear Len Alcamo >Oh dear me.... more questions, I'm afraid. >I may be totally stupid here, Len, but do you mean GROUT, as used with >tiles (e.g. bathroom) ??? Yes Elisabeth thats what I meant, the definition of a grout is a morter used to fill chinks (gaps), as in between tiles. I think its an understandable way to describe the general function of window cement, at least when explaining the the leaded glass process to someone with no knowledge of SG >Sorry if I appear a nerd.... >I seem to have this terrible difficulty with language .....;-) Don't we all... from what I gather we only have a one in six chance of understanding what the heck someone is trying to say when the written form is used. Well thats precisely why this email thing can be such a challange. Like Sinatra once said *if you can make yourself understood here, you can make yourself understood anywhere* or something like that ;-) I need more CHARTRES CHAT!!! Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 07:37:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:37:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: red oil Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:36:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706101436.JAA08458@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I thought I'd ask this question while the leadheads are still in temporary control ;-) Does anyone still use red oil (oleic acid) as a flux? I've yet to find a flux that produces as smooth a solder joint and zero splatter Its smokey, stinky and probably toxic (where is Monona anyway?) but I do vent and use a quality mask. Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 08:20:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:19:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02 From: mail To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Language wasRe: Amended cement recipe Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 11:05:36 EDT Message-ID: <970610.111927.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> References: <<199706101401.JAA06934@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I was/probably will be again a writer (one of my many personas) and often need to write in an easy, colloquial manner. Yet, in the United States alone, there is a great difference in vocabulary and patterns of speech. The diffences multiply when we add in our Canadian/British/Australian friends...and we are still using the same language (well, there's Quebec). I may use an expression or a term that is completely understandable to most of you out there and have no idea that the concept doesn't make sense in Vancouver. If we were face to face, there'd be facial expressions and body language cues to help, but on the internet, no one knows you're a dog. So if you don't understand something, don't feel you have to apologize for asking for definition and clarification. (Obviously, what A calls putty, B calls cement, and what I call cement is what I use for stepping stones -- just to be clearly on the topic of glass.) And those of you for whom English is a second language (or third), I have nothing but admiration for you. Dorothy -- Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 09:37:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:36:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Red oil Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:36:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.83612.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Len: A few years ago, we did a job involving glass painting that was copper foiled instead of leaded. The flux we were using for foil work discolore= d the glass painting, so we went on a search for a flux that would not do that. (I'm not sure we've found one yet. Mostly we just avoid combining painting and foil.) Tried to find oleic acid, too, but most folks had never heard of it including all our glass wholesalers. Not much help, I know! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 10:11:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:10:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Lamp black/stove black Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:08:15 +0000 Message-ID: <199706101710.SAA04178@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Yes Krissy, I think you just beat me to it; Remember a few months ago, I extolled the virtues of something we "Over Here" (UK) call "grate polish" (language again!!). In UK it's available under the name of either Zebrite" or "Zebo". A grate over here is anything indoors you use to make a fire (for heating or cooking, i.e. therefore also a stove). In the old days the old cooking stoves used to be made of cast iron. To polish them and give them a nice sheen , good old "Zebrite" was used. "Over Here" it normally comes in a large tooth-paste like tube. The stained glass industry has made good use of it over the centuries. It works an absolute treat to polish the glass, the lead and solder nice and black (your clothes, hands and fingernails as well, by the way...). Any whiting that is left in any crevice anywhere on your leaded panel, sucks it up instantly and turns it solid black. It's "gungy", greasy and quite "wet", but oh boy! It certainly turns the lead (and anything else) BLACK. Keep on polishing the lead (after application) with a very soft large shoe-brush, - just as you would do with a treasured pair of well-worn boots, and you will get a lovely silky sheen on it. I swear by it.... (Would you believe it, some of my students have never brushed and polished a pair of shoes in their lives!!! Ah, the joys of child-hood and my Papa showing me how it should REALLY be done.... And the smell of leather and fresh boot polish... AAAhhhh...). You Across The Pond, must have your OWN version of grate or stove polish, otherwise known as "Lamp Black". That DOES sound the one to go for....... Hardware shops; old fashioned tool shops, old-fashioned house-hold shops, shops that are involved with metalwork of any kind, cast iron and so on, are the ones to try. The new type chain stores, DIY super markets, so called Home Improvements Stores - here in UK - just simply do not have it. If you live in sizeable cities, explore the old type "General Stores" when you are out in the countryside. They too would probably have your equivalent. When you find it, splash out and buy at least a dozen, make a note of the address and phone of the store... I often do that here - Good Luck!! Elisabeth 'n Toby P.S. For cleaning glass (including stained glass) I use the very old fashioned method of a vinegar solution and old newspapers. Nothing beats it. Krissy wrote: Another name for lamp black is stove black, if I am correct. You can find it in many hardware stores and also in shops that deal with woodstoves, etc. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 11:19:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:17:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: msn.com!jazzykid From: "Jill Medlyn" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Flux Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 17:30:56 UT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Have you tried Fluxomatic-SG for copper foil,zinc and lead came. This is manufactured by Stewart Hall. Plus,it helps to use good solder. Hirch or Canfield. As far a spattering, IMHO, using less flux is better. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 11:35:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:34:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Flux Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:34:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.103423.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Less is better---------- JullJJ How do you apply flux? Brushes seem to put it on too thick at times. Anyone use a sponge or cloth? Linda Jill said: Have you tried Fluxomatic-SG for copper foil,zinc and lead came. This is manufactured by Stewart Hall. Plus,it helps to use good solder. Hirch or Canfield. As far a spattering, IMHO, using less flux is better. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 14:23:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:22:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Flux Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 17:25:02 -0400 Message-ID: <199706102122.RAA28179@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Have you tried Fluxomatic-SG for copper foil,zinc and lead came. This is >manufactured by Stewart Hall. Plus,it helps to use good solder. Hirch or >Canfield. As far a spattering, IMHO, using less flux is better. Yes Jill, I use nothing but Fluxomatic for my foil and zinc. It's my favorite flux and has never let me down. > Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 14:30:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:29:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:37:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199706102129.RAA28190@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Question: Is there such a thing as black whiting or how would one tint > it black? Not very often, but sometimes I get just a few spots that tend > to show some of the white color of the whiting that I used to clean it. Say, that reminds me of spreading out the peanut butter cookie dough (pre-packed ... I'm not *that great a cook). If it's not well-mixed, bits of dry mix show up as I spread it. I suspect that more thorough mixing will do the trick. Albert International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 14:31:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:31:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: I'm opening a new Gallery/Studio Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 17:33:43 -0400 Message-ID: <199706102131.RAA28651@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie wrote: >Hello all you helpful people. I just signed a lease for a retail gallery= > >and studio for my stained glass business. Hi Christie, My best to you in your newest endeavor. Please let me know, also, when you open. I'll be there! Skippack is a lovely place. Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 14:31:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:31:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Language wasRe: Amended cement recipe Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:27:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.132717.0> References: <<970610.111927.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > I was/probably will be again a writer (one of my many personas) and > often need to write in an easy, colloquial manner. Yet, in the > United States alone, there is a great difference in vocabulary and > patterns of speech. The diffences multiply when we add in our > Canadian/British/Australian friends...and we are still using the > same language (well, there's Quebec). I may use an expression or a > term that is completely understandable to most of you out there and > have no idea that the concept doesn't make sense in Vancouver. > If we were face to face, there'd be facial expressions and body language > cues to help, but on the internet, no one knows you're a dog. > So if you don't understand something, don't feel you have to > apologize for asking for definition and clarification. (Obviously, > what A calls putty, B calls cement, and what I call cement is what I > use for stepping stones -- just to be clearly on the topic of glass.) > > And those of you for whom English is a second language (or third), I > have nothing but admiration for you. > > Dorothy > > -- > Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan (860) 679-2940 FAX (860) 679-4046 > UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003 > HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the main thing i like in the email is that there is'nt any accents. sure there's some broken english (more broken then mine, but that's only i hated english in school). but it really is easier to read it then to figure out the accent each person has. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 14:37:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:37:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire From: Doug Scale To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Language wasRe: Amended cement recipe Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:34:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.133415.0> References: <<970610.111927.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk mail wrote: > > Yet, in the> United States alone, there is a great difference in vocabulary and> patterns of speech. The diffences multiply when we add in our> Canadian/British/Australian friends...and we are still using the > same language (well, there's Quebec). snip snip Good point Dorothy. I teach fire fighting in Canada but have many American students. At our facility we have to be bilingual and thats just betweeen American and Canadian!! Doug Scale ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 14:41:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:40:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Flux Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:37:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.13370.0> References: <<1997Jun10.103423.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > Less is better---------- > JullJJ > > > > How do you apply flux? Brushes seem to put it on too thick at times. Anyone use a sponge or cloth? > > Linda > > Jill said: > > Have you tried Fluxomatic-SG for copper foil,zinc and lead came. This is > manufactured by Stewart Hall. Plus,it helps to use good solder. Hirch or > Canfield. As far a spattering, IMHO, using less flux is better. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i use a paint brush, a cheap artist type paint brush. flux brushes splatter, and put too much flux on. q-tips work for small areas. i never wiped flux on only off, though wiping it on around the edges for tinning may work alright, though i think it would use up the flux to quickly. wiping flux near mirrors may and may not be good. on one hand you can control the amount of flux on the line. on the other hand, if you rub the fluxwith a cloth, you may bump into the back of the mirror and maybe scratch any protective coating it had. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 15:56:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:55:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: telalink.net!wood From: wood@telalink.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: cement recipe Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:56:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.125612.0> References: <<199706102129.RAA28190@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > Say, that reminds me of spreading out the peanut butter cookie dough > (pre-packed ... I'm not *that great a cook). If it's not well-mixed, > bits of dry mix show up as I spread it. > > I suspect that more thorough mixing will do the trick. I mix the putty/cement okay. It's just the clean up after with the whiting that somestimes shows here and there. I just thought that I might be doing something wrong. I think it is more a matter of me getting carried away with the whiting when I clean. Sandy Creations In Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 16:01:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:00:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: cyberramp.net!byronw From: byronw@cyberramp.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass Biz Accounting and Contracts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:03:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199706102300.SAA01298@mailhost.cyberramp.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All... Hope I'm not to far off topic with this question , If I am please just send me email with the info.. What would be a good and reasonably priced accounting package to use for a small glass studio?? Years ago we used the old Dome brand accounting books for our businesses but I would like to get into the 20th century... Also do yall use any kind of contract when dealing with folks wanting windows etc done?? Thanks in advance! Byron... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 18:27:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:26:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "mikey friggy" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:27:15 -0400 Message-ID: <199706110126.VAA11000@tor-srs1.netcom.ca> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert, I write this note to cogratulate you on the posting you wrote the other day with regards to cement and to give you some opinions of someone with a large stake in this business's successful promotion and growth. I own two large retail stores in the Toronto Canada area and publish an eight page newsletter five times a year to a mailing list of over 3000 (The Figleaflet- we invented Silver Patina, Swiss Cheesed GlassWerks - the glass with holes in it- it at least fooled the folks at Glass Art Magazine. As a matter of fact we ran a gag recall notice- the holes were the wrong size- and they published it too.) Anyhow, while we do have alot of fun, we are a serious company when it comes to glass and its promotion, be it as a craft or an artform. My own experience stretches back twenty years with our own studios building eclesiastical work across our country, soon with forays into the States. Blah, blah, blah... I know, I do run on, but if you know from where I come, you'll soon know to where I'm going. And that would be... ...the Bungi.com group. My opinion then- not very flattering to be honest. I find the discussions at times juvenile, inaccurate and petty, with the level of disinformation at times quite shocking (i.e. recent postings on the use of silicone in lieu of cement makes me extremely uncomfortable). Now, I realize that this may not be attributed to you (I hope, as the workings of such a group is somewhat a mystery yet)and as such I cannot believe this is the sort of forum you had intended to provide given the writing you posted the other day to the group (cement, remember). The level of concise and accurate information that posting gave can do nothing but encourage others to 'rise' to the occassion and increase the quality of exchange that should but improve this thing we call stained glass. I applaud you! MIke Chasz President, Fantasy In Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 19:00:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:00:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr From: "NC Scouter" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: Re: Red oil Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:54:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.145456.0> References: <<1997Jun10.83612.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer wrote: >"... so we went on a search for a flux that would not do > that. (I'm not sure we've found one yet. Mostly we just avoid combining > painting and foil.) Tried to find oleic acid, too, but most folks had > never heard of it including all our glass wholesalers. Not much help, I > know! > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer" Canfield makes an organic oleic acid fluxcalled "Soleic Flux" sold by a wholesale-only distributor named The Glass Emporium located in North Wales, Pennsylvania. There is another oleic acid flux called "Ruby Fluid", but at the moment I'm not quite sure whether it was from Hudson or Sunshine wholesale distributors--although I'd be perfectly happy to investigate it further if you're still interested?? Valerie T Phelps Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. (Located in beautiful 'dowwwnnntowwnn' Wanchese, NC!) -- ________ "But we have this treasure | | "Blessed are the censors in jars of clay..." ( ) for they shall ( ) inhibit the earth!" 2cor4.7niv (________) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 19:07:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:06:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: tznet.com!DIACCA From: Topp Shop & Gallery To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Me at-SOURCE 97 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:06:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970611020636.006812fc@mail.tznet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi! Everyone who is coming. I-Pat DIACCA Topp will be at the Ed Hoy's booth this year. I am looking forward to this experience since I am a relative newbie at this glass stuff. Two and a half years. Was an enamelist for 30 years, and finally figured out what I want to do when I grow up! I am only 63, lots of time left. FUSING, FUSING AND MORE FUSING. I know, don't shout! But if you have had a chance to read my article in the Winter 1996-1997 & Spring 1997 issue of GLASS-COMMON GROUND you can grasp my excitment over this chance to meet some of you wonderful people. What with being up here in Northern Wisconsin, not a lot going on in the art business. I will be demonstrating the Carefree Luster Decals that Hoy sells. . Please stop by and introduce yourself. I am giving away some sample packages <250> of the luster decals. Will have a couple of small samples of finished pieces and even had a professional photographer do a large photo-poster of a piece I just finished. I am going to try doing some demos of fusing at the booth with a small kiln Hoy is bringing along. I haven't worked with this kind of kiln ever, so will probably have a lot of questions to ask everyone. I am used to working with a large front loading kiln, so this will be a great learning experience for me. Even if you are not into fusing, please stop by and say hello anyway. Really looking forward to meeting all of you. Please, really do stop by............Love Pat IT FINALLY WARMED UP HERE IN WISCONSIN, WE NEVER GET SPRING, JUST TWO SEASONS, 6 MONTHS OF WHITE, AND 6 MONTHS OF ORANGE. Barrels that is. THE TOPP SHOP & GALLERY, Works by DIACCA, Kiln worked glass bowls, plates & jewelry. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 19:32:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:31:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: telematic.edu.pe!lockman From: "The One" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Solder bead turning whitish Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:18:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.161812.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have noted that in some panels the lead lines (copper foil) begin to turn a whitish colour after a few weeks or months. It happens only on some panels and the level of oxidation (if this is what it is) varies. On the rest of the panels nothing happens. A similar process has also occured on some leaded panels. Is this common? Does anyone out there have any ideas/soloutions regarding this? If so please reply to: lockman@telematic.edu.pe Thanking you in anticipation... Patrick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 19:32:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:31:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nobleco.net!glass From: "Wallace, Paul" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Lamp black/stove black Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:31:17 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.223117.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk other name for lamp black is stove black, if I am correct. You can find > it in many hardware stores and also in shops that deal with woodstoves, etc. > I have seen it in liquid form, and that seems to be fine for the purpose of > making cement. Comes in small bottles and is really quite inexpensive. I bet > Wal-MArt may even have some. > ---- Another cheap source of lamp black is from a concrete/masonry store. It is sold to color concrete or morter grey or black. It comes in a fine powder but be careful you don't need much and if you spill it on your person or anything else it is a real mess to clean up! Bumblebee Stained Glass Paul ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 19:40:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:40:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:47:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199706110240.WAA15449@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike, Thanks for your compliments, but I was merely a channel. The text regarding cement was from Julie Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass," quoted with permission. As for the bungi.com group, it's an open forum, but it's not mine nor is it the Guild's. It was founded by Dave and Glenna Rand (he's a computer whiz; she's a stained glass artist) and is pretty much, as you can tell, an unmoderated forum. If I put in my oar from time to time, it's to be helpful, spread solid information, etc. Love your stories about the holy glass. Isn't that was Monty and friends were searching for? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 10 20:33:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:32:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: gr.cns.net!pristine From: mcFrenzy To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Red oil Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:33:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun10.19333.0> References: <<1997Jun10.145456.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thought I'd interject an interesting bit about oleic acid. It is found in some foods, I think I saw it on a box of cereal's ingredients. Automotive body shoppes of olde used mutton fat, a source of oleic acid, as a flux for applying lead in repair work. The connection to oleo-margarine is obvious. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 03:16:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 03:15:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!studioone1 From: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: deep rose glass Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 05:59:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun11.15942.0> References: <<1997Jun7.11718.0>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk T., Art Glass number is 1 800 525 8009. This is the order line but they should be able to help you. Good luck. dee studioone1@Juno.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 03:39:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 03:39:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!ElsieTurqman From: Elsie Turqman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:Mike Chasz letter Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:39:01 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun11.10391.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike This is a group of people who are interested in stained glass. Everyone is entitled to express their opinion and we try to increase each others knowledge and enjoyment of the craft. The following quote, that I often heard as I was growing up best expresses my opinion of you letter to Albert, who by the way does not run the group. "EVERYONE TO THEIR OWN TASTE, SAID THE OLD LADY, AS SHE KISSED THE CAT" Elsie At 01:27 AM 6/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >Albert, I write this note to cogratulate you on the posting you wrote the >other day with regards to cement and to give you some opinions of someone >with a large stake in this business's successful promotion and growth. I >own two large retail stores in the Toronto Canada area and publish an eight >page newsletter five times a year to a mailing list of over 3000 (The >Figleaflet- we invented Silver Patina, Swiss Cheesed GlassWerks - the glass >with holes in it- it at least fooled the folks at Glass Art Magazine. As a >matter of fact we ran a gag recall notice- the holes were the wrong size- >and they published it too.) Anyhow, while we do have alot of fun, we are a >serious company when it comes to glass and its promotion, be it as a craft >or an artform. My own experience stretches back twenty years with our own >studios building eclesiastical work across our country, soon with forays >into the States. Blah, blah, blah... I know, I do run on, but if you know >from where I come, you'll soon know to where I'm going. And that would >be... > ...the Bungi.com group. >My opinion then- not very flattering to be honest. I find the discussions >at times juvenile, inaccurate and petty, with the level of disinformation >at times quite shocking (i.e. recent postings on the use of silicone in >lieu of cement makes me extremely uncomfortable). Now, I realize that this >may not be attributed to you (I hope, as the workings of such a group is >somewhat a mystery yet)and as such I cannot believe this is the sort of >forum you had intended to provide given the writing you posted the other >day to the group (cement, remember). > The level of concise and accurate information that posting gave can do >nothing but encourage others to 'rise' to the occassion and increase the >quality of exchange that should but improve this thing we call stained >glass. I applaud you! >MIke Chasz >President, Fantasy In Glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 04:44:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 04:43:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: fast.net!warnerc From: Charles To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: glass visions Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 07:34:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun11.33448.0> References: <<199706101502.OAA21869@mail.jet.es>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Warner-Crivellaro Precedence: bulk Hi everyone! Ok, there have been some buzz words about a glass extravaganza that will take place at Warner-Crivellaro in August. Just want to make it official! We are inviting all of you (especially those who were not able to make it to Baltimore) to take part in this wonderful glass event. It will take place on Saturday and Sunday August 23rd and 24th. On Saturday we will have a huge glass sale with all kinds of glass to choose from and Sunday there will be vendor exhibits and demonstrations. It will be fun, exciting and this event is destined to be the largest on the east coast. There are lots of interesting things to do and see in the area and we are only 5 minutes away from the airport. We welcome suggestions and anyone you would like to see at this event. Mark your calendars! Elenie Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass http://www.warner-criv.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 05:52:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 05:51:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: 1st.net!glasqult From: Joni Tornwall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: red oil Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:56:40 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun11.85640.0> References: <<199706101436.JAA08458@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Does anyone still use red oil (oleic acid) as a flux? Dear Len, We use oleic acid at the college where I learned lead, and you are right, no splatter, and we had better have our respirators on, or we're in trouble! But I think our instructor is more concerned about the possibility of inhaling vaporized lead than anything else. Joni ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 06:11:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 06:11:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar From: KrissyMar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lamp black/stove black Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun11.51133.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elsabeth, You brought back fond memories of my childhood with you description of the smell and such!!!!! I almost had tears in my eyes! My dad would almost annually polish the stove in the basement, and I was almost in a trance watching him work. I was always amazed how the rust would just dissapear, and oh, that smell! Also, somebody mentioned something used on gun sights, etc. I do know of a product called gun blue or bluing. I am not sure that this is the same product as stove black(and all it's other names). I do know that the fininsh is a bit lighter, and shinier. It could be realted??? Can anyone clarify this? I also wonder if Gun Blue can also be used to polish up the lead & solder. Seems to me it would work quite well & produce a patina similar to that of pewter. I will email my father & try to get a response, as he may have some answers, having used both many times. Kris ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 06:18:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 06:18:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar From: KrissyMar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Flux Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun11.5180.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I use swabs to apply flux, being careful they are not too wet and drippy. You can always apply more flux if needed, but too much flux could really cause truoble. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 07:14:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 07:14:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Lamp black/stove black Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:10:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun11.61032.0> References: <<1997Jun11.51133.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Krissy Yes, I had fond memories too. Stove Black, Lamp Black are different from 'gun bluing' You must have caught my thought, as last night I was wondering what, if any effect gun bluing would have on solder. There goes Lee, again experimenting.:-) I have re-blued several pistols over the years, and really like the finish. So will stop at the gun shop here and get a little bottle to try. The chemical reacts to the steel in guns, so don't know if it would react to Solder (Tin/Lead) But it is not expensive, and worth trying on a test strip. Gee, my chemical collection is really growing ;-). And I love the smell of gun bluing and the nitro solvent bore cleaner, also. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations KrissyMar@aol.com wrote: > > Elisabeth, > > You brought back fond memories of my childhood with you description of the > smell and such!!!!! I almost had tears in my eyes! My dad would almost > annually polish the stove in the basement, and I was almost in a trance > watching him work. I was always amazed how the rust would just disappear, and > oh, that smell! > > Also, somebody mentioned something used on gun sights, etc. I do know of a > product called gun blue or bluing. I am not sure that this is the same > product as stove black (and all it's other names). I do know that the > Finish is a bit lighter, and shinier. It could be related??? Can anyone > clarify this? I also wonder if Gun Blue can also be used to polish up the > lead & solder. Seems to me it would work quite well & produce a patina > similar to that of pewter. > I will email my father & try to get a response, as he may have some answers, > having used both many times. Kris ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 07:28:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 07:28:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: FTINTL.COM!meyerhardt From: "Meyerhardt, Maxine" To: "glass@bungi.com" Subject: RE: glass visions Date: Wed, 11 Jun 97 10:08:00 PDT Message-ID: <1997Jun11.1780.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk where is it? ---------- From: Charles[SMTP:warnerc@fast.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 7:34 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: glass visions Hi everyone! Ok, there have been some buzz words about a glass extravaganza that will take place at Warner-Crivellaro in August. Just want to make it official! We are inviting all of you (especially those who were not able to make it to Baltimore) to take part in this wonderful glass event. It will take place on Saturday and Sunday August 23rd and 24th. On Saturday we will have a huge glass sale with all kinds of glass to choose from and Sunday there will be vendor exhibits and demonstrations. It will be fun, exciting and this event is destined to be the largest on the east coast. There are lots of interesting things to do and see in the area and we are only 5 minutes away from the airport. We welcome suggestions and anyone you would like to see at this event. Mark your calendars! Elenie Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass http://www.warner-criv.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 08:19:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Solder bead turning whitish Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:14:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun11.71451.0> References: <<1997Jun10.161812.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The One wrote: > > I have noted that in some panels the lead lines (copper foil) begin to turn > a whitish colour after a few weeks or months. It happens only on some > panels and the level of oxidation (if this is what it is) varies. On the > rest of the panels nothing happens. > A similar process has also occured on some leaded panels. > Is this common? Does anyone out there have any ideas/soloutions regarding > this? > If so please reply to: lockman@telematic.edu.pe > Thanking you in anticipation... > Patrick > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass that's the flux leaching out. which means you either used too much flux and some is trapped under the solder (a theory i heard somewhere, which i don't completley believe). or the cleaning process was'nt good enough. ever since i started using the baking soda - joy mixture, i really hav'nt had much white at all. also sealing in the solder with something like chemopro works well also. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 08:27:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:26:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: oleic acid Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:25:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706111525.KAA07171@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I did alittle research (ten minutes on the web!) on oleic acid. It is a naturally occuring fatty acid commonly used in shampoo, food products and in topical ointments which makes sense to me since I bought a large bottle of the stuff at a pharmacey I tried several fluxes over the years and IMHO you can't get a smoother solder joint with any other flux. Upside....not critical how much you use its oily so it stays put has a reddish color so its easy to see will not splatter under any circumstances Downside..stinks very smokey Might be too messy for foil work More difficult to clean up Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 10:38:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:37:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar From: KrissyMar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lamp black/stove black Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun11.93655.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lee, let me know how it works out. It shouldn't cost more than $3.00 for a small bottle & I know that major department stores carry it as well. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 12:55:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:54:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: digital.net!agw From: Jennifer Daniels To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Art Glass World Update Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 15:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706111954.PAA29638@ddi.digital.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --Art Glass World Visitor Update-- New Features-- SGAA Summer Conference Join Artists July 8 - 12, 1997 for the 88th Annual SGAA Summer Conference Seminar. Filled with informative seminars plus SGAA Golf Scramble, All-Member Slide Show, Stained Glass Tour and Visit to Local Winery, Silent Auction, Awards Banquet and Northwest Salmon Barbecue. Visit the Stained Glass Magazine site at http//www.artglassworld.com/mag/sglass and click on SGAA for complete schedule. Education and Classes The popular Art Glass 101 page has been updated with associations, clubs, educational opportunities, workshops and seminars, AGW member classes, notes and news. See what's going on in your area or plan a trip to participate in some of these informative and enjoyable events. Visit http://www.artglassworld.com/edu.html. New Features from Stained Glass Magazine Catalogue Ads on the 'Net - Locate supplies from the top distributors and suppliers in stained glass and request a catalog today. Notes and News - Check out the latest Announcements, Competitions, Conferences, Exhibits, Tours, Trade Shows and Workshops in stained glass in this highly comprehensive listing. Stained Glass Mart Ads - Positions available, products and services to buy and sell. Look for great deals and job openings at the Glass Mart. Check out these features from the Stained Glass Magazine home page at http://www.artglassworld.com/mag/sglass. An Introduction from AGW's New Sales Manager, Kathleen Bromely: I have owned and operated a stained glass studio for 20 years and love the business. I have taught classes all over the country and am happy to be now working with Art Glass World with their online channel. Thank you for visiting AGW and please let me continue to help you in any way possible. All of your comments would be appreciated and any ideas that you have about how we can better serve your stained glass need will be addressed. Our e-mail address is agw@digital.net. This is a free service and education forum for you, but we really need your input to improve and continue our services! Thanks again for helping AGW to be the largest art glass resource on the internet and stop in often! Kathleen P.S. Going to be at the AGSA show this June? Stop by the Art Glass World at booth #804. See you soon. ================================================================ Jennifer Daniels agw@digital.net Art Glass World http://www.artglassworld.com 4002 W. State Street phone: 813-348-0605 Tampa, FL 33609 USA fax: 813-872-6288 ================================================================ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 14:42:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:42:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Scanner Reviews Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:46:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970611174648.006c3148@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997Jun9.8027.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Folks, A couple of days ago on the during the scanner thread someone shared a URL for a list of reviews ... I was sure I saved it, but I can't find it now. Would someone please repost that? Thanks! Cheers M.-J. (with pink cheeks) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 14:46:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:45:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Classydad From: Classydad@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Art Pad Tablet Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun11.134536.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have a HP ScanJet 5p flatbed scanner. Seems to work fine, but I can't seem to get it to give me a true 100% reproduction of artwork. It won't go all the way to the edges and seems to print copy slightly off center. Otherwise works great. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 16:09:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:08:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Biz Accounting and Contracts Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:11:03 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun11.18113.0> References: <<199706102300.SAA01298@mailhost.cyberramp.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > ...What would be a good and > reasonably priced accounting package to use for a small glass > studio?? Quicken. Quicken. Quicken. If the normal package won't work, buy the professional version, QuickBooks. Don't think you can get by without buying the checks from either Quicken or a 3rd party source. It is simple, intuitive, easy to learn and set up, and our choice for the last eight years for home and office. Comes for Mac and IBM. Good luck. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 16:37:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:36:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Biz Accounting and Contracts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:44:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199706112336.TAA26131@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > ...What would be a good and > > reasonably priced accounting package to use for a small glass > > studio?? > Quicken. Quicken. Quicken. If the normal package won't work, buy the > professional version Yes, QuickBooks Pro is what I use and I'm sure I'm not tapping its full power. I just give the files to the accountant at year's end and he fixes all my mistakes. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 16:45:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:45:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Scanner Reviews Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:41:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun11.154124.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19970611174648.006c3148@pop.bridge.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi M. J. Took a little looking, but here are the posts. good info. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > To find the scanner that's just right for your needs, read PC Magazine's > March 4th '97 issue. It has a great review of 17 flat bed scanners. You can > find it on the > web at: (http://www8.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/scanners/). > > http://www.info-products.com/ > > Also check out The Macintosh Peripheral Page > (http://www.flash.net/~wdarner/mpp/scannert.html). It has links to many > reviews of scanners. > > For a good list of general scanner resources go to > (http://www.dpi-scanner-authority.com/nav/index.html) This site has lots of > information that will help > beginners choose scanners, and learn to use them for best results. > > I myself have a Mustek Paragon 600 II SP scanner, bought last month before I > saw the above resources, and it works rather well. I haven't put a whole lot > of pictures up on my site yet, and the ones I have on there are a bit blurry > more because my photograhy skills leave a LOT to be desired than because the > scanner doesn't work well! :-) But I like the scanner itself just fine. It > was about $220 at Best Buy. > > Hope this helps! > > Steph ~ > Stephanie Hansen > Stained Glass Treasures > http://members.aol.com/StnGlsTres > > > > > M.-J. Taylor wrote: > > > > Hi, Folks, > > > > A couple of days ago on the during the scanner thread someone shared a URL > > for a list of reviews ... I was sure I saved it, but I can't find it now. > > > > Would someone please repost that? Thanks! > > > > Cheers > > > > M.-J. (with pink cheeks) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 11 17:06:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: New Products Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:01:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun11.16145.0> References: <<199706112336.TAA26131@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi, Here are two new products I have just tried. Both work great. For the box, candleholder, panel that you may have put aside half done for a while. 3M Synthetic Steel Wool Now comes in 0000 super fine. The pads are white. Under $3.00-Wal-Mart 6 good size pads to a bag. When I looked for this before, all they had was 000 (not fine enough) No little pieces of steel to pick out, and less expensive than Bronze Wool. Rub on solder lines-then patina. The other is UltraSand sanding sheets. 000000 Ultra-fine (Rhodes/American) brand (non woven metallic finishing sheets) For the solder lines that have developed corrosion, rub with this, light strokes, doesn't take much rubbing. Then wash thoroughly with Joy/baking soda mix, dry and wax. It shines like you just soldered it. Also Wal-Mart $4.49. This works better than Jewelry Crocus cloth. And I echo Albert and Hilary (?), on the Quicken/QuickBooks Pro. I am not tapping the full capability either. Simple and intuitive. (I'm the one who used have problems balancing a check book) Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > > Yes, QuickBooks Pro is what I use and I'm sure I'm not tapping its > full power. I just give the files to the accountant at year's end and > he fixes all my mistakes. > > Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 03:13:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 03:11:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!studioone1 From: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:12:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.2125.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Can someone tell me about the Joy/baking soda mix for cleaning? I have used different combinations but not this particular one. Thanks. dee studioone1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 04:23:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:22:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: fast.net!warnerc From: Warner-Crivellaro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass visions Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:13:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.31319.0> References: <<1997Jun11.1780.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Warner-Crivellaro Precedence: bulk We are located on 1855 Weaversville Road in Allentown, PA. If you go to our web site, http://www.warner-criv.com, you can find more detailed directions to W-C under visit our store. Sorry about that! Elenie > > Hi everyone! > Ok, there have been some buzz words about a glass extravaganza that will > take place at Warner-Crivellaro in August. Just want to make it > official! We are inviting all of you (especially those who were not able > to make it to Baltimore) to take part in this wonderful glass event. It > will take place on Saturday and Sunday August 23rd and 24th. On Saturday > we will have a huge glass sale with all kinds of glass to choose from > and Sunday there will be vendor exhibits and demonstrations. It will be > fun, exciting and this event is destined to be the largest on the east > coast. There are lots of interesting things to do and see in the area > and we are only 5 minutes away from the airport. We welcome suggestions > and anyone you would like to see at this event. Mark your calendars! > Elenie > Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass > http://www.warner-criv.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 05:51:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:50:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: TIP Tools & Equpmt Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:49:55 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.124955.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thank you for reminding me that our bungi group is so extensive. Here is more info from their catalogue that may be helpful for our friends outside of the USA. Tip Tools & Eqmt 7075 Route 446 Canfield, Ohio 44406 24hr Fax: (330) 533-2876 Local Phone: (330) 533-3384 Internet-http://www.tiptools.com Good Luck! Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass >To: summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net >From: Chua Hock Beng >Subject: TIP Tools & Equpmt >X-Sender: chuahb@po.pacific.net.sg >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 02:07:56 +0000 > > >Saw your info for TIP Tools & Equpmt @ 180-3219260 > >Would very much appreciate if u could help with the FAX or Addr. > >We got the Day and Night hours just reverse. > >Thank you and Best Regards. > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 05:51:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:50:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glass Biz Accounting and Contracts Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:49:52 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.124952.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 06:11 PM 6/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >> ...What would be a good and >> reasonably priced accounting package to use for a small glass >> studio?? > >Quicken. Quicken. Quicken. If the normal package won't work, buy the >professional version, QuickBooks. Don't think you can get by without >buying the checks from either Quicken or a 3rd party source. It is >simple, intuitive, easy to learn and set up, and our choice for the last >eight years for home and office. Comes for Mac and IBM. > >Good luck. >Hilary >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 05:52:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:51:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Joy/baking soda Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:47:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.44751.0> References: <<1997Jun12.2125.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Dee, I'll let Mike Savad come up with the formula, I just use any dishwashing detergent/baking soda Put a little det. in a bowl/ add a teaspoon of baking soda, use scrubby sponge to apply in sink if object small enough, or use bucket/rag method if larger panel. Just enough det. to be slightly sudsy. Also use 'Simple Green' spray which is a great degreaser. I don't measure really, just by guess and by gosh :-) Baking soda neutralizes the 'acid' in flux, helps prevent corrosion Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Dee l Plott wrote: > > Can someone tell me about the Joy/baking soda mix for cleaning? I have > used different combinations but not this particular one. Thanks. > dee studioone1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 05:57:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:57:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glass Biz Accounting and Contracts Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:57:04 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.12574.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Will Quicken also do summary reports from your data, like Income Statements and Balance Sheets, etc? There was a short version of Quicken installed on a computer I bought about 3 years ago and all it would do is balance the checkbook, I wasn't impressed. Someone suggested to me that Peachtree might be a more complete accounting package. Anyone have any experience with it? Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass At 06:11 PM 6/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >> ...What would be a good and >> reasonably priced accounting package to use for a small glass >> studio?? > >Quicken. Quicken. Quicken. If the normal package won't work, buy the >professional version, QuickBooks. Don't think you can get by without >buying the checks from either Quicken or a 3rd party source. It is >simple, intuitive, easy to learn and set up, and our choice for the last >eight years for home and office. Comes for Mac and IBM. > >Good luck. >Hilary >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 06:16:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:16:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glass Biz Accounting and Contracts Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:15:26 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970612091524.006c4a04@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 12:57 PM 6/12/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Will Quicken also do summary reports from your data, like Income Statements >and Balance Sheets, etc? There was a short version of Quicken installed on >a computer I bought about 3 years ago and all it would do is balance the >checkbook, I wasn't impressed. Someone suggested to me that Peachtree might >be a more complete accounting package. Anyone have any experience with it? > I bought Peachtree Accounting (admittedly I was searching for an inventory program) and theirs was the worst! It supposedly would let you manipulate the reports anyway you wanted...but it turned out it was anyway the designers wanted. I was not impressed. The tech support line admitted that the inventory portion was not very well thought out and a new version was coming out and surely I could pay for an update in another year or so...I ended up returning the software to the store and got my money back. It WAS TERRIBLE!!! Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 07:20:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:19:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Biz Accounting and Contracts Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:15:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.61549.0> References: <<1997Jun12.12574.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Yes, the last 2-3 versions of Quicken can do this. A 3 year old version, is a dinosaur, sort of like a 286 computer, compared with current versions. Lee Mike Peck wrote: > > Will Quicken also do summary reports from your data, like Income Statements > and Balance Sheets, etc.? There was a short version of Quicken installed on > a computer I bought about 3 years ago and all it would do is balance the > checkbook, I wasn't impressed. Someone suggested to me that Peachtree might > be a more complete accounting package. Anyone have any experience with it? > > Mike Peck > Summit Stained Glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 08:10:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:09:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Glass Biz Accounting and Contracts Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:09:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.7922.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:glass@bungi.com >Will Quicken also do summary reports from your data, like Income Statements and Balance Sheets, etc? There was a short version of Quicken installed = on a computer I bought about 3 years ago and all it would do is balance the checkbook, I wasn't impressed. Someone suggested to me that Peachtree might be a more complete accounting package. Anyone have any experience with i= t? < Quick Books Pro does all that and more. Lots more. Check it out! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 08:22:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:22:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:18:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.7181.0> References: <<1997Jun12.2125.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dee l Plott wrote: > > Can someone tell me about the Joy/baking soda mix for cleaning? I have > used different combinations but not this particular one. Thanks. > dee studioone1 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's simple get a scrub brush (a nail brush), put a drop of joy on it. wet your piece and put some baking soda on the piece (though sometimes i put the soda on the brush). and scrub it as usaul. the baking soda helps to neutralize the flux and helps to polish the solder. and the joy, does it's own thing. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 17:03:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:02:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar From: KrissyMar@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Biz Accounting and Contracts Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 20:02:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun12.16225.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk There is also an accounting program called Manage your Money that is really great! I picked up a free copy from my bank, and have seen others offering it, as it ties into their online banking. It also does neat things like give a quote of the day, amorotize loans, and even estiamte you life expectancy( really not needed features, but sometimes fun & handy to have) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 19:53:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:52:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!studioone1 From: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott): Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:37:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.18373.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 06:12:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.2125.0> Can someone tell me about the Joy/baking soda mix for cleaning? I have used different combinations but not this particular one. Thanks. dee studioone1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --------- End forwarded message ---------- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 12 23:13:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:12:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!LLamb45799 From: LLamb45799@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Biz Accounting and Contracts Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 02:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun12.221250.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Mike, After reading the responses you received on accounting packages I would recommend Peachtree Accounting, We have used it for several years at our automotive shop and it seems to do the job right. I have been in accounting for over 25 years and i have to admit I was very impressed with Peachtree. Also there is a stained glass shop on 63rd street that also uses Peachtree. If you would like to contact them please e-mail me and I will try to get their name and number for you. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 12:30:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:28:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: exmail.usma.army.mil!yj3673 From: "McLaughlin, J. COL DENTAC" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Lead Came Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:27:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun13.112729.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Anyone have any suggestions on how to store lead came to keep it from oxidizing? And/Or an easy way to clean it up after it get dull (the operative phrase here is 'EASY') ? This is before you use it, not after it is in a window. Thanks! John ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 13:52:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:51:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Came Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:58:29 +0000 Message-ID: <199706132051.QAA06590@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Anyone have any suggestions on how to store lead came to keep it from > oxidizing? And/Or an easy way to clean it up after it get dull (the > operative phrase here is 'EASY') ? This is before you use it, not after > it is in a window. John, that layer of oxidation is actually *protective of the lead ... it'll make it last longer. The current rage for shiny leads is one I don't understand, since it only means that the work will fall apart more quickly. Albert International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 16:57:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Lead Came Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:56:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun13.155621.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk John wanted to know an easy way to keep lead came from oxidizing. Albert= responds that oxidization is good for the lead. That may be true, but oxidized lead is a real bear to solder. I prefer our came to oxidize aft= er it leaves the studio!! With minimal oxidization, we find that using Canfield Coppermate paste flux overcomes the soldering difficulty. With heavy oxidization, we find it necessary to remove it with a steel brush o= r (if you run out of oomph!) a steel grinding burr on a Dremel tool. It's = a miserable chore! = Being in usually dry Colorado, we don't have too much trouble with our lead. Those little silica gel packets that come in the lead crates do th= e trick for us most of the time, unless the lead has been sitting around fo= r eons. In a really humid environment? I don't know - maybe spraying with WD-40 before it oxidizes - just a thought, it might work. Maybe wrapping the lead in oilcloth? Perhaps the conservators could add their thoughts,= remembering of course that before there is a window to preserve, someone must build one and their materials must be workable ;-) !! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 17:53:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:52:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Lead Came Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:47:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun13.164759.0> References: <<1997Jun13.112729.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk McLaughlin, J. COL DENTAC wrote: > > Anyone have any suggestions on how to store lead came to keep it from > oxidizing? And/Or an easy way to clean it up after it get dull (the > operative phrase here is 'EASY') ? This is before you use it, not after > it is in a window. > Thanks! > > John > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well you could try this, this is what plumbers use to carry pipe on the top of their van. get a secion on pvc pipe, 2"-3" in diameter. attach the right kind of ends to each end of the pipe (a threaded adapter). then screw on an end cap to each side of the pipe (put the came inside first). providing you don't leave the caps unscrewed, it should allow the came to stay reletivly new for a good long while. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 18:45:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:44:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:42:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199706140144.CAA17949@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Len (Alcamo) et al, Thanks for your patience. Just wanted to make sure I got it right... As regards Chartres chat... yeah, Ok, OK, it'll come when it's ready..... Am hatching the next "chapter" at the moment. One chapter alone just will HAVE to deal with our rather adventurous trip to the studio of Gabriel Loire and our experiences there. My next project is how to persuade my own "Patron Saint of Computers Kris" to spend hours to get my Chartes photographs onto my WEB-site.... for you guys to have a look at, in ADDITION to the other stained glass pixs I am currently travelling around UK re-photographing. Peggy, Kathe, Mary & Lee - hatching long replies....... If I am getting really stuck, might even try to blow the budget and phone you. Elisabeth 'n Toby Len wrote: Yes Elisabeth thats what I meant, (big snip) I need more CHARTRES CHAT!!! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 18:45:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:45:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Chartres trip. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:42:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199706140145.CAA18004@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Doug, Thank you for your kind comments. If you are interested, I will be very pleased to keep you (or anyone else) posted individually on any further plans to visit Chartres (or Germany, or..., or..) Otherwise I will just do what I did before; broadcast outline, general details into the Group, if that is OK. OLD panels; yeah!.... gues what it feels like to be asked to repair/restore a panel that is 200-300 years old, which is the oldest I have tackled. You hold your breath, poke abpout for weeks - if not months - terrified to "dig in", wondering which section is brittle, which might just crumble away in your hands (the LEAD probably will, anyhow). I know there was the discussion a while earlier of whether to restore in situ' in studio. I for one need to have the work flat; I also need to be alone with it. I couldn't bear having some stranger peering over my shoulder and asking questions when I was just about to get THAT ONE crucial piece out. I would be so lost in my concentration of what I was doing, that anyone breaking into that would be such a shock to me, I just know I would jump 6 feet in the air, drop the piece on the stone floor ......... No, I for one, would rather have it transported (insurance costs and all) back to the quiet sanctum of my silent studio, with just Bach, Vivaldi or Mozart to soothe my nervousness. 400, 500, 600 years old panels. I think I would break out in a cold sweat and start to feel slightly sick. 700 - 800 years old is too much than I can handle. I felt terror and awe just touching it in Chartres. REPAIRING IT!!??? ME!!! Just thinking about it makes me panic!!! Oh, I can't bear it... I must end here!! But, Thank you again.... Elisabeth 'n Toby Doug wrote: Loved your description of your trip. Hopefully more of us from this side of the pond can visit in the coming years. Boy, and to think over here something is old if its 50 -100 years and absolutley ancient if it's a couple hundred!! Glass that is 800 years old is hard to imagine from our young standards in Canada and the US. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 18:45:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:45:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Lamp black/stove black Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:42:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199706140144.CAA17958@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi All, Gun Blue! What an interesting idea! I haven't tried that one before, but will do so now! Mind you, it might be more difficult here in UK to obtain anything associated with guns, since they have just passed a law banning almost all privately owned hand-guns, in light of the Dunblane disaster, where a maniac massacred about 30 junior school children, together with their teacher last year. So the gun-trade here in UK is bound to take a serious dip. And NO, I won't go into the politics about hand guns..... On the other hand, the gun shops might be SOOO pleased about being to sell me ANYTHING, that I might even get it cheaper ;-)) Elisabeth 'n Toby Krissy wrote: Also, somebody mentioned something used on gun sights, etc. I do know of a product called gun blue or bluing. I am not sure that this is the same product as stove black(and all it's other names). I do know that the fininsh is a bit lighter, and shinier. It could be realted??? Can anyone clarify this? I also wonder if Gun Blue can also be used to polish up the lead & solder. Seems to me it would work quite well & produce a patina similar to that of pewter. I will email my father & try to get a response, as he may have some answers, having used both many times. Kris ---- ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 18:46:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Language wasRe: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:42:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199706140144.CAA17962@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dorothy, Thank you for your gracious comment! Elisabeth (a real Viking) 'n Toby (who has his own language!) Dorothy wrote: (snip) And those of you for whom English is a second language (or third), I have nothing but admiration for you. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 19:23:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:22:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706140222.WAA27929@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elizabeth wrote,> > >Hi Len (Alcamo) et al, >Thanks for your patience. Just wanted to make sure I got it right... > >As regards Chartres chat... yeah, Ok, OK, it'll come when it's >ready..... Am hatching the next "chapter" at the moment. One chapter >alone just will HAVE to deal with our rather adventurous trip to the >studio of Gabriel Loire and our experiences there. Elizabeth, I heard that the older gentleman Lorie just passed on in December of last year. What a remarkable family. Did you happen to meet Sylive in the school behind the Galerie du Vitrail?? The International Centre du Vitrail. She was quite interesting. Gave us a lesson in 13th century painting techniques. Also I just heard that Malcom Miller is coming to the United States next year folks and doing a tour. He is also doing some television work for the United States Discovery Channel and I think another program for PBS. I could listen to the man for hours. Any who is visiting Paris for the glass at Nortre Dame?? It is still closed with scaffolding cover the entire outside. And how about the windows in Sainte Chappelle...I always feel they don't get their just . my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 22:03:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:01:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass visions Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:02:25 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun13.16225.0> References: <<1997Jun11.33448.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Sob, sob -- is everything exciting and wonderful going to be on the East Coast? I guess here in Montana, we're just out of luck. T. in Montana Charles wrote: > > Hi everyone! > Ok, there have been some buzz words about a glass extravaganza that will > take place at Warner-Crivellaro in August. Just want to make it > official! We are inviting all of you (especially those who were not able > to make it to Baltimore) to take part in this wonderful glass event. It > will take place on Saturday and Sunday August 23rd and 24th. > Elenie > Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 22:04:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:04:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:05:25 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun13.16525.0> References: <<1997Jun12.2125.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Hi Dee, I've mixed baking soda in Joy detergent and it works very well, thanks to a suggestion I got some time ago from this bungi group. I just added the baking soda to the Joy, but the bottle needs to be about 1/3 full as there is some interaction and it will fizz up some. It's as good as the flux remover that can be obtained commercially. T. in Montana Dee l Plott wrote: > > Can someone tell me about the Joy/baking soda mix for cleaning? I have > used different combinations but not this particular one. Thanks. > dee studioone1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 13 22:09:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:09:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Lamp black Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:10:50 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun13.161050.0> References: <<3.0.32.19970610082555.006b6948@mail.bright.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Hi Joyce, I got my lamp black from Whittemore-Durgin (1-800-871-1790). Because a little goes a long way, it is actually rather inexpensive. As I recall, the package is about the size of a pint (weight unknown, it's out in my studio) and cost about $6.00. T. in Montana glasschic wrote: > > >Lamp black (also called carbon black) is a fine, almost pure carbon > >powder used as a pigment. It is the soot created from burning > >petroleum oils, tars or resins. > > > >Albert > > So do you have to collect your own, or is there a source for it? I own an > old house, and used to be able to buy Dap putty in the black color, (all 47 > of my windows are painted black, and the white putty sticks out like a sore > thumb.) but in my small town it is no longer available. I could add lamp > black, if I could find it, but no luck there either. Any sources for lamp > black????? > > Garden of Glass > Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 05:17:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 05:14:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 08:21:43 +0000 Message-ID: <199706141214.IAA03021@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > And how about the windows in Sainte Chappelle...I always feel they don't get > their just . Julie complains that she's been to Paris three times hoping to see St. Chapelle and all three times it's been closed for repairs. Someday, maybe. albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 05:17:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 05:14:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass visions Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 08:21:43 +0000 Message-ID: <199706141214.IAA03018@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Sob, sob -- is everything exciting and wonderful going to be on the East > Coast? I guess here in Montana, we're just out of luck. T. in Montana T. As far as I'm concerned, Montana's the center of the universe, the place where long vistas, clear skies full of stars at night, and chill mornings make living worthwhile. I'd say that's far from "out of luck." Albert in New York (which has its good points, too) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 06:39:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 06:38:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 07:32:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970609201611.25973aae@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Oh Yes!!!! Please Do!!! That would be soooo nice! Meg >My next project is how to persuade my own "Patron Saint of Computers >Kris" to spend hours to get my Chartes photographs onto my >WEB-site.... for you guys to have a look at, in ADDITION to the other >stained glass pixs I am currently travelling around UK >re-photographing. > Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 10:47:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:47:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Experiments Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:43:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun14.94331.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19970609201611.25973aae@sol.racsa.co.cr>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Gun Bluing-Got a small bottle of Outer's brand bluing, and tried it on my candle holder/pencil box on the Dining Room/work table. First I rubbed the solder lines with the 0000 fine synthetic steel wool (I like it as it does not shred, or get metal shards in your fingers) to get a clean line-then washed it good. The bluing took repeated swabbing, but put a nice 'pewter-like' finish on the lines. Rinsed and waxed, looks nice. This was Canfield 60/40, so will try it on other solders too. I still like the black patina best, shined and waxed. So much for the instructions/said it won't work on anything but steel. !! So it never hurts to try something new. :-) This does have some harsh chemicals in it so use the usual precautions. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 10:50:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:50:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Pictures-can't wait Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:46:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun14.94625.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19970609201611.25973aae@sol.racsa.co.cr>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Oh my, so anxious to see the pictures-this will be wonderful-how I wish I could have been there. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > >My next project is how to persuade my own "Patron Saint of Computers > >Kris" to spend hours to get my Chartes photographs onto my > >WEB-site.... for you guys to have a look at, in ADDITION to the other > >stained glass pixs I am currently travelling around UK > >re-photographing. > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 15:02:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:00:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: pobox.alaska.net!wildewk From: Dick Sullivan To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F880AA78CA1F7A6E6830B9F9" Subject: Display Stand Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 13:58:50 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun14.75850.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: WILDEWORKS Precedence: bulk --------------F880AA78CA1F7A6E6830B9F9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all Bungi Glass experts: My wife & I need some help designing a display stand. One that is on a lazy susan (swivel), for hanging stain glass projects from. 4 sides. 3ft tall.with 12" to 15" sides. Got any ideas?? Dick Sullivan rsully@alaska.net --------------F880AA78CA1F7A6E6830B9F9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all Bungi Glass experts:
         My wife & I need some help designing a display stand. One that is on a lazy susan (swivel), for hanging stain glass projects from. 4 sides. 3ft tall.with 12" to 15" sides. Got any ideas??
Dick Sullivan
rsully@alaska.net --------------F880AA78CA1F7A6E6830B9F9-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 15:06:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:06:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'Phil Taylor'" , "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Gatewayed mail message Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:01:21 -0100 Message-ID: <1997Jun14.17121.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Is there a ratio. Or 1 part Joy to 1 part Baking Soda. Thanks Gloria ---------- From: Phil Taylor[SMTP:chip3@montana.com] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 1997 3:05 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Hi Dee, I've mixed baking soda in Joy detergent and it works very well, thanks to a suggestion I got some time ago from this bungi group. I just added the baking soda to the Joy, but the bottle needs to be about 1/3 full as there is some interaction and it will fizz up some. It's as good as the flux remover that can be obtained commercially. T. in Montana Dee l Plott wrote: > > Can someone tell me about the Joy/baking soda mix for cleaning? I have > used different combinations but not this particular one. Thanks. > dee studioone1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 17:22:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:21:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Display Stand Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:17:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun14.161721.0> References: <<1997Jun14.75850.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dick Sullivan wrote: > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all Bungi Glass experts: > My wife & I need some help designing a display stand. One > that is on a lazy susan (swivel), for hanging stain glass projects > from. 4 sides. 3ft tall.with 12" to 15" sides. Got any ideas?? > Dick Sullivan > rsully@alaska.net i'm not quite sure by ideas?... since it sounds like you know what it will look like, is there a particular thing(s) you need help on? is this going to be in your home, or (what it sounds like) a craft show? if it's going to be in an craft show, then i would make the sides seperate from the top and bottom. the bottom would have the swivel section in it. the sides would fold out like folding doors, maybe a set one for each corner. the sides would fit in to the base, and the top would lock it together, you should probably screw the whole thing together with wing nuts in the corners. if you can imagine the whole thing, it should be able to break down, fold up, and travel for easy storage. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 17:26:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:26:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:21:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun14.162151.0> References: <<1997Jun14.17121.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk George & Gloria wrote: > > Is there a ratio. Or 1 part Joy to 1 part Baking Soda. > Thanks > Gloria > > ---------- > From: Phil Taylor[SMTP:chip3@montana.com] > Sent: Saturday, June 14, 1997 3:05 AM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message > > Hi Dee, I've mixed baking soda in Joy detergent and it works very well, > thanks to a suggestion I got some time ago from this bungi group. I > just added the baking soda to the Joy, but the bottle needs to be about > 1/3 full as there is some interaction and it will fizz up some. It's as > good as the flux remover that can be obtained commercially. T. in > Montana > > Dee l Plott wrote: > > > > Can someone tell me about the Joy/baking soda mix for cleaning? I have > > used different combinations but not this particular one. Thanks. > > dee studioone1 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i've always used a splash of each. if there's alot of flux, i sprinkle some baking soda on it first. usually a drop or two of joy, too much and it takes to much time to remove all the soap. most of the time i put a drop on my brush, the sprinkle some baking soda on the brush and use that. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 17:44:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:44:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!DGlswrks From: DGlswrks@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Cement Recipe One More Time? Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun14.164424.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I got into bungi after the cement recipe was listed. Could someone list it or send it to me one more time? Thanks! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 17:50:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:50:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: msn.com!jazzykid From: "Jill Medlyn" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Airplane patterns Date: Sun, 15 Jun 97 00:47:53 UT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any three dimensional airplane patterns...Looking for older aircraft. Please email me at jazzykid@msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 21:06:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:05:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: detroit.freenet.org!ae479 From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: mosaic on glass Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:05:21 -0400 Message-ID: <199706150405.AAA17985@detroit.freenet.org> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Have in mind doing a mosaic on a glass table and plan to light it from below. My hardware stores do not carry a transparent glass glue and since there will be a group of us working together, would like to find it in a fairly large container. Any suggestions? Has anyone had any experience with a glass glue made from a base of unflavored gelatin and skimmed milk - I assume it cannot be transparent. Thanks. Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 23:04:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:03:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!RThaxton From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Need Lorna Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:28:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun12.15280.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Lorna in Canada sent me some beautiful pictures of her crystal house and I forgot her E:mail address....OoPs...If you are out there Lorna please E:mail me I scanned one for you... Melissa Hind sight is better to have before hand ( in this case for sure! ) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 14 23:32:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:31:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!RThaxton From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Notification : Change of Mail Address Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:25:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun13.13251.0> References: <<1997Jun13.164759.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Please Take rthaxton@ix.netcom.com off the Bungi group and add in it's place mthaxton@ix.netcom.com I finally got my own mailbox!! yippeeeeeee! Thanks, Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 15 03:02:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 03:01:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: mosaic on glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 06:09:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199706151001.GAA00425@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Have in mind doing a mosaic on a glass table and plan to light it from > below. My hardware stores do not carry a transparent glass glue and > since there will be a group of us working together, would like to find > it in a fairly large container. Any suggestions? Kemxert Corp., 1900 Orange Street, York PA 17404-5228. Phone: (717) 854-8907. (800) 854-8907. Fax: (717) 854-9333. Manufacturer of ultraviolet light cure adhesives. Optically clear, tinted U.V. glass glues. The above and others are in the Sources Guide, address below. Albert International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 15 06:32:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 06:32:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: mosaic on glass Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 07:26:49 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970610002701.272fc344@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I made up a batch, and before I could even try to use it, it went totally rubbery hard, and I couldn't figure how you would use that! It was supposed to be transparent though I thought. I use clear silicone sometimes, Also there are clear Uv adhesives I use... Delphi sells small tubes, I wish they had it in larger containers... someones catalog did, but I can't find it again. However it doesn't work so well on dark glass.... Meg At 12:05 AM 6/15/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Have in mind doing a mosaic on a glass table and plan to light it from >below. My hardware stores do not carry a transparent glass glue and >since there will be a group of us working together, would like to find >it in a fairly large container. Any suggestions? > >Has anyone had any experience with a glass glue made from a base of >unflavored gelatin and skimmed milk - I assume it cannot be transparent. > >Thanks. > >Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 15 07:51:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 07:51:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: mosaic on glass Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:46:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun15.64644.0> References: <<199706150405.AAA17985@detroit.freenet.org>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sue Becker wrote: > > Have in mind doing a mosaic on a glass table and plan to light it from > below. My hardware stores do not carry a transparent glass glue and > since there will be a group of us working together, would like to find > it in a fairly large container. Any suggestions? > > Has anyone had any experience with a glass glue made from a base of > unflavored gelatin and skimmed milk - I assume it cannot be transparent. > > Thanks. > > Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass that mixture would make common paste, very strong for paper but real weak for glass, especially if water is spilled on it. this would be more time consuming and vaporous but how about commercial glues... like epoxy, though you could only get a few pieces in at a time, but if you find a long setting epoxy that could work. super glue, maybe, i was never very impressed on how well it stuck to glass. silicone, though it may be slighlty milky looking, though in thin coats it's quite clear, however it may bee seen through clear glasses. E-6000 is pretty clear though in large quantities it can be expensive. maybe contact cement would work, you would have to experiment quite a bit though. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 15 10:00:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:59:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: mosaic on glass Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 12:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706151659.MAA16800@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Albert wrote, > . Any suggestions? > >Kemxert Corp., 1900 Orange Street, York PA 17404-5228. Phone: (717) >854-8907. (800) 854-8907. Fax: (717) 854-9333. >Manufacturer of ultraviolet light cure adhesives. Optically clear, >tinted U.V. glass glues. >uide] >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] > U.V. glass glues..... Dewey Associates 459 Main Street Suite 102 New Rochelle, NY 10801-6400 1 914 633 4081 Just purchased this Spectroline SB-100C Series Long Wave UV Curing Bulb. What a dream. If you call Dewey .they will send you samples of Dymax adhesive.. You must have a uv blub to cure these though. . These Ultra Light-Weld glass bonding adhesives are done in a second.. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 15 10:26:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 10:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: mosaic on glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:33:27 +0000 Message-ID: <199706151726.NAA07796@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Just purchased this Spectroline SB-100C Series Long Wave UV Curing Bulb. > What a dream. Kewl. I'll get in touch with Dewey about being included in the Sources Guide. Never heard of them before, though that's not a big surprise ... I learn something new every day. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 15 12:38:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 12:36:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!DGlswrks From: DGlswrks@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re:UV Glue-PJ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 15:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun15.113629.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am getting ready to use UV glue to glue bevels to larger bevels. As I plan this, I think that some glue may ooze from under the smaller bevel onto the larger bevel. I know I need to remove this before exposing to UV light. Any suggestions? Just a clean cloth or cotton swab? I'm sure it must be completely removed before I expose to UV light since a gluey edge will ruin the effect. Thanks! Dione ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 15 12:46:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 12:45:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Display Stand Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 12:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun15.54024.0> References: <<1997Jun14.161721.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk To Dick Sullivan. You asked anyone to suggest ways to display suncatchers for a craft show. I found a small fireplace screen and spray painted it black. It is small enough to go on top of a table and holds numerous suncatchers. The only thing I have to weight it down if there is any wind because the fold out fire screen tends to top over easily. Let us know what you finally decide to do. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 15 14:30:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:29:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!GlassMagic From: GlassMagic@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: grinders/bevelers Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun15.132938.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am looking for anybody that can help me make an informative decision concerning the POWER MAX grinder by diamond tech., that can be upgraded to a beveler. I am unable to get to a store that has one on display to test, so any body that could give ideas or opinions as to possible problems/benefits to watch for concerning grinders and/or bevelers would be greatly appreciated. I am excited to have a machine that can both grind and bevel, (for cost reasons), and would like to place an order within the next week. Thank you all. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 15 15:04:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 15:03:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: mosaic on glass Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:00:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun15.1400.0> References: <<199706151659.MAA16800@water.waterw.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Thanks, pj, This is just what I need for a project I am starting to think about. Also, how do you remove any excess that may run out before you cure with light??? And is there one that dried crystal clear? Thanks Again, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > >Kemxert Corp., 1900 Orange Street, York PA 17404-5228. Phone: (717) > >854-8907. (800) 854-8907. Fax: (717) 854-9333. > >Manufacturer of ultraviolet light cure adhesives. Optically clear, > >tinted U.V. glass glues. > > > U.V. glass glues..... > Dewey Associates > 459 Main Street > Suite 102 > New Rochelle, NY 10801-6400 > 1 914 633 4081 > > Just purchased this Spectroline SB-100C Series Long Wave UV Curing Bulb. > What a dream. > If you call Dewey .they will send you samples of Dymax adhesive.. You must > have a uv blub to cure these though. . These Ultra Light-Weld glass > bonding adhesives are done in a second.. > > my best, > pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 15 18:30:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 18:29:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: grinders/bevelers Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 21:25:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun15.172527.0> References: <<1997Jun15.132938.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk GlassMagic@aol.com wrote: > > I am looking for anybody that can help me make an informative decision > concerning the POWER MAX grinder by diamond tech., that can be upgraded to a > beveler. I am unable to get to a store that has one on display to test, so > any body that could give ideas or opinions as to possible problems/benefits > to watch for concerning grinders and/or bevelers would be greatly > appreciated. I am excited to have a machine that can both grind and bevel, > (for cost reasons), and would like to place an order within the next week. > Thank you all. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i have the bevel max. i found it tends to scratch my glass, the paper rips easily and explodes in a sudden flash. and when it does this, if you happen to be holding on to a piece of glass at the time it could go right through your hand (if it's sharp). however the motor seems to be much more powerful then the twin spin, and the wheel is a bit larger. but you have to maintain a water flow, and most of it fly's on you. with the twin spin, it has a a diamond coating on the side so you have a real fast grinding surface when you need it. so over all, the grinder is powerful and fast cutting. but lacks a good way to prevent a soak down on you (the bevel max anyway). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 16 05:22:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 05:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: choosing lead came Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun16.4211.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am wondering which size came to use for a panel I will be making for a friend, 16 x 20 approx. I have only used 3/16th round in the past. If any of you could share any tips on what you like to work with and why, I would appreciate your input. Thanks Maureen mosfunland@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 16 05:55:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 05:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:UV Glue-PJ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:49:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970610015024.2d97c044@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Dione; I use a Q tip, sometimes wet with alcohol. Also you can cut through dry glue and pop it off sometimes, with a knife. I really haven't had much trouble that way. A little goes a long way! Meg At 03:36 PM 6/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >I am getting ready to use UV glue to glue bevels to larger bevels. As I plan >this, I think that some glue may ooze from under the smaller bevel onto the >larger bevel. I know I need to remove this before exposing to UV light. Any >suggestions? Just a clean cloth or cotton swab? I'm sure it must be >completely removed before I expose to UV light since a gluey edge will ruin >the effect. > >Thanks! >Dione >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 16 06:25:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 06:24:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:UV Glue-PJ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706161324.JAA04820@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dione wrote, >I am getting ready to use UV glue to glue bevels to larger bevels. As I plan >this, I think that some glue may ooze from under the smaller bevel onto the >larger bevel. I know I need to remove this before exposing to UV light. Any >suggestions? Just a clean cloth or cotton swab? I'm sure it must be >completely removed before I expose to UV light since a gluey edge will ruin >the effect. Dione, Sorry this took so long to get back. With these UV glues you only need to use a few small amount. There should be no reason to "ooze" from anywhere. Good Luck. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 16 08:23:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:21:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: choosing lead came Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:20:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706161520.KAA03498@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 08:21 AM 6/16/97 -0400, Mosfunland@aol.com wrote: >I am wondering which size came to use for a panel I will be making for a >friend, 16 x 20 approx. I have only used 3/16th round in the past. If any >of you could share any tips on what you like to work with and why, I would >appreciate your input. >Thanks >Maureen Hi Maureen, I'd suggest that the first thing to consider is if any of the design elements of the the panel would be enhanced by using different sizes of came. This is one of the strong pluses of using lead, the ability to easily vary the width of the matrix line and create a pleasing sense of proportion Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 16 09:46:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:45:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: choosing lead came Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:41:48 EDT Message-ID: <1997Jun16.164148.0> References: <<1997Jun16.4211.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Maureen ; Think about 5/32 you will have to be a little more accurate in your cutting,but it will be far more delicate in a piece that size . Don On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Mosfunland@aol.com writes: >I am wondering which size came to use for a panel I will be making for >a >friend, 16 x 20 approx. I have only used 3/16th round in the past. >If any >of you could share any tips on what you like to work with and why, I >would >appreciate your input. >Thanks >Maureen >mosfunland@aol.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 16 15:08:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:04:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: digital.net!agw From: Jennifer Daniels To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: grinders/bevelers Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706162204.SAA12231@ddi.digital.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks for your interest in DTI Max grinders. Continuous product improvements allow us to offer a 5 year warranty on all Max grinders and the 1/8 hp motor makes them the most powerful grinders in stained glass. Max grinders all use the same powerful base unit, making them completely and easily convertible for additional grinding functions. What that means is that the Power Max or Diamond Max can convert to the Bevel Max and vice versa. This saves you money and studio space. For more information on Max grinders and to request free product info view our online catalog at http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/dti or call 800-937-9593. Following is a recent testimonail from the Art Glass World Bulliten Board. Thanks, Jennifer Daniels Diamond Tech International dti@digital.net Posted by Tisha on June 11, 1997 at 21:16:21: I have the Diamond Max by Diamontech International It has a small .5" bit on top and a big 6" flat wheel on the bottom. I bought mine for $120. You can talk to Delphi Stained Glass. I really like mine. I can do alot more with it than just the little wizzards. Also it can be upgraded into a bevel machine forabout $200. At 05:29 PM 6/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >I am looking for anybody that can help me make an informative decision >concerning the POWER MAX grinder by diamond tech., that can be upgraded to a >beveler. I am unable to get to a store that has one on display to test, so >any body that could give ideas or opinions as to possible problems/benefits >to watch for concerning grinders and/or bevelers would be greatly >appreciated. I am excited to have a machine that can both grind and bevel, >(for cost reasons), and would like to place an order within the next week. > Thank you all. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 16 16:07:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:05:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: Attachmate.com!TIFFANYA From: Tiffany Allesina To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: advice needed on many fronts Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:58:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun16.85852.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk First, let me say that I am brand, spanking new to this list, so if I say anything out of line, I apologize! I have 3 major problems: two are projects I have not yet begun and one is a project I can't seem to get completed. I'll start with the easy ones. I want to do a window for my aunt who loves all things Oriental. Do you know of any patterns (or pattern collections) of Asian/Oriental influenced designs? And where to get them? I want to do a window for my cousin who is crazy for elephants. I ordered a pattern book from a German company, but it is really small. I guess I could take it to a copy center and have it blown up, but is this the proper technique for enlarging the pattern? Now for the hard questions regarding my unfinished project: Is there a good technique for cutting tight corners where multiple pieces of lead come together? I have taken classes and read books and everyone seems to have a different theory. My gut feeling is to try to cut the came at angles that complement the joint so as to minimize the amount of solder that it takes to complete the joint, but I still wind up with having to fill and fill and fill. Also, I can't seem to get the technique of cutting long angles. Any suggestions? Lastly, I have finished said window for my newly married brother (wedding gift). I have been working on it since December. I have actually built the thing twice and both times I have run into the same problems with the finished piece -- one side doesn't fit square and the solder joints are either awesome or deplorable. What can I do? I am on the verge of taking it apart for the second time and starting from scratch. It is, I am afraid, slightly beyond my skill level, but I have done so much work on it already, I have to give up now. So, what can I do to check it along the way for squareness? I have quadruple checked the pieces against the pattern, I check it as I'm building it, but the pattern is one I copied from a Celtic design book, and I actually just blew up the picture in the book, so there might be a problem there. I get so frustrated I could just scream when I look at it. Sorry for the long message, but I have been on my own for so long with this hobby that I am having a hard time believing there are others out there who might be able to help! Thanks in advance, tiff ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 16 16:10:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:08:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!AlexG2 From: AlexG2@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: American Bevel Designer Software is it worth it? Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun16.15733.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I just tryed the demo version of American Bevel Designer. Has anyone been successful at using it? Also are there any ready to go pattern librarys or glass bitmaps available for the software? Any input would be appreciated. Alex Gacic ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 16 16:41:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:40:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: dfly.com!wilk From: "Michael R. Wilk" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC7A74.57067FD0" Subject: RE: American Bevel Designer Software is it worth it? Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 16:42:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun16.94241.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC7A74.57067FD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Alex, Also be sure to check out our product The Glass Eye at www.dfly.com! We have a downloadable demo too. -Michael Wilk wilk@dfly.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC7A74.57067FD0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjcXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNv bQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2dsYXNzQGJ1bmdp LmNvbScAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkdMQVNTQEJVTkdJLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQBTTVRQAGdsYXNzQGJ1bmdpLmNvbQAAAAADAP1fAQAA AAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnlJAQSAAQA1AAAAUkU6IEFtZXJpY2FuIEJldmVsIERl c2lnbmVyIFNvZnR3YXJlIGlzIGl0IHdvcnRoIGl0PwBkEgEFgAMADgAAAM0HBgAQABAAKgApAAEA TgEBIIADAA4AAADNBwYAEAAQACkAFQABADkBAQmAAQAhAAAAM0Q0QjhERTNBRDdBQkMxMUFFODlD RTRGMzJDQjAyNjgAeAcBA5AGAHAJAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAA AAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AMC5FvuuerwBHgBwAAEAAAA1AAAAUkU6IEFtZXJpY2FuIEJl dmVsIERlc2lnbmVyIFNvZnR3YXJlIGlzIGl0IHdvcnRoIGl0PwAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvHqu +vwhNSrD5qER0KRlAAAAAAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAADgAAAHdpbGtA ZGZseS5jb20AAAADAAYQ+bIjhwMABxBwAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAREVBUkFMRVgsQUxTT0JFU1VS RVRPQ0hFQ0tPVVRPVVJQUk9EVUNUVEhFR0xBU1NFWUVBVFdXV0RGTFlDT01XRUhBVkVBRE9XTkxP QURBQkxFREVNT1RPTy1NSUNIQUVMV0lMSwAAAAACAQkQAQAAADwGAAA4BgAALA8AAExaRnW4Qaf8 AwAKAHJjcGcxMjVyMgxgYzEDMAEHC2BukQ4QMDMzDxZmZQ+STwH3AqQDYwIAY2gKwHOEZXQC0XBy cTIAAJIqCqFubxJQIDAB0IUB0DYPoDA1MDQUIfMB0BQQNH0HbQKDAFAD1PsR/xMLYhPhFFATshj0 FNCLBxMV5DYRjjIzOBdUoiAHbSBDRRXkNxp/pxRAG68ctXlyFeQ5EY6vGlAWMR7/A4JHCdFrAoPf DAEg/w5QIi8Dc1QIcCPUuxYxIQ04GmElnwOCQgdA/nQN4CPUJWEWbBt4BxMdBv8bcCr/HrcslSBV DjAWTiHo/yyUI4kaYTBOJWYslCbnHZG/ME0olyyUKiYCkQjmOwlv6jA4v2UOMDU56jsBOr//O8k5 1DvyOl8+Lz3tPW87n/M57xBgMjhDukTRRI9Fmf851EXCRC9H/0e9Rz9Fb0k0fjkOUEyETeFGA03g AoJzqHR5bAeQaAngdAAAQxNQA/BkY3RsCrFcYVA4YWRqdU9QBRBn7mgFQhYyDAFjCcBQQAMw8HNu ZXgXMAewBbAAwMUCc3MAUHNiMhRQT0DSYRPwXGsJ4HALkFAfr1CDCGBQcAuAZU+AdldA/wFAUXsM MFJEG5BVIASgC4CmZ0XRUsZiYRcQZAIgn1OAUyZPsFFwWXEgMU8T/w5QVH9Vj1afAFFX3ACgUk7/ Wl9bZk8ED8Bcb11/Xo8OUG9Xz2DvYf9bkzMCghMQYz9UQGmBUXBbkCpQV3AgREkBEGF1KkAgUArA YcEJwGFwaCBGAiFUBOkwEWktD5A4AUBXEG4T62TvUINiCyByCVBwMhag2XAydzRDIRcAcAHQa1J/ UZ9of2mGbbBscAUQAjAtK20QA2E6KRBvdZBTdRRiagWQdHWQRGF0/GU6VAQaYW3/bw9wH3Ev/3I3 T6Bbgw4haYFYlg5Qc0/NdF5SV2EXASBIW3EEkP9UBB2Rd294f3mPeptW73uflw+Qh1AI0GIKsHQ4 Z9p/D1Rj8H2ffqaH4H+wC1B53i9tIHqQCxGAJXNUBBuR/4Evgj+DT3qfcj+JT4pfi2R/dbJ1VHaJ INCNr1Evh4Q5h5F/ko+YgERvY3UHgP8CMAXQbOBqtpCEa5UMYAlQjmMkEJmIazFIeXAEkPuFUSPB fZaylhCWUI8xAYD+bnYQAGAJ8GuAmuACAVPAfXwyZQDwmuBPYJ5ADlB26QiQd2sLgGQewKGiBPD/ B0AQYQFADgCPAltiowUCEN5vBUIXIRLydqBtC1F2oFEdADpcXHTgb2zBbW9tEAMQB5ClsE0N4ANg c3JvAYAgTwEgDeCg8Fytp2ZFAMADEC5pUHSe0G8XEJZQUwGFUngBQKABbu9PsDjQqQRsFGMDIBLz AID5BZBsdl+BZLAOcFPAq5L/AZAAIKwiofGbIQHBq5EW4J8PcAAAZLAM0AGQIC438v+riA5QrEIq QJagrL+tz67fvw/AZLAFgbB/sY+yn2wewN1ksGywP7T/tgUprwwwEMez37i/tfRiICgCkbnf/6vT GmC3j7xPvV++b6wAHZD/v7Ksj8Efwi+vDBuQv7/FP//GT8dfrAAg0MQ/yc/K38vk3wr5AzCWD5cf mK17bAAKwfJBT4B4LAqFCoXU8KcQtCBiE4BzCHATgHTWUPMW0AWQayCFIddxBcAXcPcEcA5wBUBU T7AjcAtgBBFsRXkTgHaQIAKSCJBsfmQS8g9AW5FPUKtQgCBZgFBFUkxJTktbUMECQHA6Ly933ACo sMkPQHkuBaBtIdmBEvL6ZHaQYdnDWHELgA4gDpAAANDJ6nn5us4AEYyCAKoAS6moCwIA34AX34EO 34ECd+AjLgBkAGYACGwAeeCBYwBvAKhtACHfgeDejSzfgQhoAHTjQXAAOgD+L+PB4D/hR+PQ34A3 8AKS/9nwFwBsUQjBC/Kc9dwL5fL8IFcTgBbga9G2UJ8RyLD+b9LgAaBPgOlQpRDWUNbw9G8u1Uwt psEW4IWA6LB9AxBrCoXZj9qeqHLW8Dr7A/DsUEDcRtzf3eOaod5vxd98aeDhawBA5I/h3+wLKt+B 4ZBh86PjUOFw/+Ow85/0qeX/5wnvevkyCoWf0KTRb9J/2rH79n0A/7ADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAA AwCAEP////9AAAcwsGxsy656vAFAAAgwsGxsy656vAELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAD hQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAm gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAA AAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAA0/0= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC7A74.57067FD0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 16 19:41:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:40:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Advice needed on many fronts Date: Mon, 16 Jun 97 22:43:02 -0400 Message-ID: <199706170240.WAA04273@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Subject: Re: advice needed on many fronts Sent: 6/16/97 10:23 PM To: Tiffany Allesina, TIFFANY@Attachmate.com Reply-To: glass@bungi.com To: 'glass@bungi.com', glass@bungi.com Hi Tiffany, I can answer a couple of your questions. You have found a lot of friends here who will go out of their way to help you. >I want to do a window for my aunt who loves all things Oriental. Do >you know of any patterns (or pattern collections) of Asian/Oriental >influenced designs? And where to get them? I have a book called "Oriental Design Stained Glass Pattern Book" by Richard Ott. I believe I got it from Dover Publications, Inc., which is a mail-order book store at 31 E. 2nd St., Mineola, NY 11501. Write for their catalog; they have a lot of good stuff. >I want to do a window for my cousin who is crazy for elephants. I >ordered a pattern book from a German company, but it is really small. > I guess I could take it to a copy center and have it blown up, but is >this the proper technique for enlarging the pattern? Yes, you can blow them up from the book. Sometimes the lines get very thick though, depending on how much you enlarge it, and sometimes you will find that it isn't square or is "off" somehow. I am doing a Celtic Knot right now and took it from a book. It's really off so I did a lot of checking and adjusting before I cut the pattern. Celtic knots and quilt patterns (any geometrics actually) need to be cut accurately or they get out of hand if you're not careful. Here are some books with elephants: Glassmith Studios, A Break in Time; 200 Design Ideas for Stained Glass by Mark & Susan Walton; The Zoo Crew by Daniel Donovan. I bought all three of these at my local retail store. Warner-Crivellaro should carry these; you can find them at http:www.warner-criv.com. Sorry can't help with the lead questions; I only work with copper foil. Lots of luck with your post and with stained glass in general. It's a lot of fun! My best, Suzanne Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 16 20:51:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:50:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: advice needed on many fronts Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:56:39 EDT Message-ID: <1997Jun17.25639.0> References: <<1997Jun16.85852.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tiffany: I will give you one tip for long angled mitres, cut the heart out of the lead as long as you want the angle to be, then cut each side away at any long angle you need. As far as where the multiple pieces of lead come together. try altering your pattern (if possible) to many lead ends coming together will almost always leave you with a glob !! of ugly solder. I know many others will offer their advice also ,good luck Don DeVoto On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:58:52 -0700 Tiffany Allesina writes: >First, let me say that I am brand, spanking new to this list, so if I >say anything out of line, I apologize! > >I have 3 major problems: two are projects I have not yet begun and >one is a project I can't seem to get completed. I'll start with the >easy ones. > >I want to do a window for my aunt who loves all things Oriental. Do >you know of any patterns (or pattern collections) of Asian/Oriental >influenced designs? And where to get them? > >I want to do a window for my cousin who is crazy for elephants. I >ordered a pattern book from a German company, but it is really small. > I guess I could take it to a copy center and have it blown up, but is > >this the proper technique for enlarging the pattern? > >Now for the hard questions regarding my unfinished project: > >Is there a good technique for cutting tight corners where multiple >pieces of lead come together? I have taken classes and read books and > >everyone seems to have a different theory. My gut feeling is to try >to cut the came at angles that complement the joint so as to minimize >the amount of solder that it takes to complete the joint, but I still >wind up with having to fill and fill and fill. Also, I can't seem to >get the technique of cutting long angles. Any suggestions? > >Lastly, I have finished said window for my newly married brother >(wedding gift). I have been working on it since December. I have >actually built the thing twice and both times I have run into the same > >problems with the finished piece -- one side doesn't fit square and >the solder joints are either awesome or deplorable. What can I do? I > >am on the verge of taking it apart for the second time and starting >from scratch. It is, I am afraid, slightly beyond my skill level, but > >I have done so much work on it already, I have to give up now. So, >what can I do to check it along the way for squareness? I have >quadruple checked the pieces against the pattern, I check it as I'm >building it, but the pattern is one I copied from a Celtic design >book, and I actually just blew up the picture in the book, so there >might be a problem there. I get so frustrated I could just scream >when I look at it. > >Sorry for the long message, but I have been on my own for so long with > >this hobby that I am having a hard time believing there are others out > >there who might be able to help! > >Thanks in advance, > >tiff > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 05:33:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 05:32:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Oriental patterns was Advice needed Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:32:33 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970617083231.006c9b98@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I have a book called "Oriental Design Stained Glass Pattern Book" by >Richard Ott. I believe I got it from Dover Publications, Inc., which is a >mail-order book store at 31 E. 2nd St., Mineola, NY 11501. Write for >their catalog; they have a lot of good stuff. Yes this oriental book is probably the best one out there. But a lot of the designs are not beginner level, very intricate indeed....just like most oriental designs really are! A couple of additional patterns can be found in: Keepsakes in Stained Glass - Ladies (an oriental lady) by Eva Battoe Winning Designs from SGN (a large oriental lady panel) Glassy Moments book 1 by Karen Ichino (several free standing oriental ladies -in kimonos.) Very nice! I get books from Franklin Art Glass in Columbus, Ohio 1-800-848-7683 Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 05:47:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 05:47:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: mosaic on glass Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:46:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.44654.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:glass@bungi.com >My hardware stores do not carry a transparent glass glue and since there will be a group of us working together, would like to find it in a fairly large container. Any suggestions?< I know some people on this group may groan, but I really, really like usi= ng GE Silicon II glue for bonding glass to glass when I'm doing my stained glass mosaic works. You can get this product at just about any hardware = or home improvement store. It is clear, bonds well, and dries quickly. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 05:47:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 05:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Cement Recipe One More Time? Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:46:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.44651.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Here ya go. This is a compilation of various threads relating to the cement recipes. -------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Charles ask that we post our cement recipe so here it is: = 1 part Portland cement* 2 parts Plaster of Paris 4 parts whiting 1 part linseed oil 1 1/2- 2 parts mineral spirits or turpentine lamp black or other "cement" colors (alkali proof) =3D = = A "part" can be any measure - we use 1/2 cup portions. At this proportio= n, use about two Tbsp. of color. We usually use black, but some might rather use yellow ochre for brass channel. *We've read articles that inclusion of Portland cement is of questionable worth, but Mike learned to make cement this way 20+ years ago and has been makin= g it that way ever since. Any opinions? After making cement, apply to your panel working the goo into the channel= s. Then dust with whiting and clean off the goo with a palmetto brush (this is the bes= t part, because this is where the lead takes on a really beautiful burnish). Save your leftover, dirty whiting from this stage to make your next batch of cement. Be sure to sift it first. Leave the panels sit overnight for the cement to set-up. Then detail in the mornin= g where the cement has settled and oozed a bit in the corners. This technique is dirt= y and hard work, but fast and worth every ounce of energy when you see the end result. Th= e only time it's not a good idea is when your triple-glazing (sandwiching) which we avoid whenever possible. Any better ideas or additions to this are welcome. = Best regards, Dani Greer -------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All I'm going to post what I think is the corrected cement recipe per Julie's= amendments: = 7 parts whiting 1 part boiled linseed oil 1 1/2-2 parts mineral spirits 1-2 Tbsp. lamp black or other colorant = Someone (Len?) also mentioned japan drier - quantity would probably be minimal. We haven't tried this out yet - any comments from the experts? = Can Elisabeth give this recipe to her students? Any other changes/improvements? Thanks for the feedback. Best regards, Dani Gree= r -------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@BUNGI.COM = > Exactly what = > IS whiting?? My understanding is that it is powdered chalk; yet = > other people tell me it's plaster, others again tell me it's a = > mixture of chalk AND plaster; others again tell me it is dead, = > inactive plaster. It's white so it's called whiting. There must be = > more to it than that... > So what is it exactly??? = This from Julie Sloan's "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," = http://www.aiap.com/ with permission: = Traditionally, waterproofing compound was composed basically of boiled linseed oil and whiting, with plaster of Paris to extend the mixture, turpentine to thin it, red, white or yellow lead as a drier of the oil, and lamp black to color the compound grey. These six ingredients are found in most recipes for waterproofing putty from the nineteenth century until the mid-1970s, when the use of lead was outlawed in the US. = Linseed oil is a drying oil, used as the medium in artists' oil paint. In waterproofing compound, boiled linseed oil is used because it dries more quickly than unboiled oil. The process of drying is not a volatilization; that is, nothing evaporates from linseed oil to leave a solid behind, which is what happens when lacquers or watercolors, for instance, dry. Instead, linseed oil oxidizes and polymerizes, meaning that it absorbs oxygen from the atmosphere, which causes a chemical change in the oil and results in its thickening and hardening. A chemical change cannot be re-versed; set waterproofing compound can never be dissolved to its constituent components of linseed oil and whiting, unlike lacquer, for instance, which can be dissolved in the medium in which it was applied originally. = This absorption of oxygen and subsequent chemical change begins to take place when linseed oil is heated or exposed to driers or other chemicals, or to sunlight. This is the beginning of the polymerization process. Boiled linseed oil is not actually boiled; it is heated until oxidation begins, but the boiling point is not reached. Today, "boiled" oil is dried with chemicals. This drying process results in a thicker substance which takes less time to fully polymerize. Ultimately, when applied and left to set in the air, the fully polymerized (or dried) oil becomes hard, very durable and waterproof. Although full drying requires literally tens of years (especially in thick applications, such as in a bevel), initial oxidation and drying is achieved in two or three days, after which time a skin or harder surface has formed which may be painted. Sunlight aids in the drying process, although too much sun causes cracking. = Whiting is powdered calcium carbonate, or chalk. It is inert, meaning that it reacts chemically with nothing. It has long been used as an inexpensive and inferior white pigment in non-oil paints or an extender for oil paints. Combined with linseed oil, it has a long history as a putty used in repairing paintings, not to mention in the glazing of windows. = Plaster of Paris is calcium sulfate. It is produced by roasting gypsum (which is also calcium sulfate) to drive off most of the water bonded to its molecules. This allows plaster of Paris to become active, capable of readily and quickly re-combining with water to form a hard, brittle material. This ability to combine with water is probably not why it was used in putties, where such a hard-setting, brittle, water-soluble material is not desired. While whiting is used as an extender for oil paints, plaster was considered inferior for this use because of its hygroscopic nature (meaning it absorbs water from the air). However, in linseed-oil putty, plaster is used as an inexpensive extender. In putty recipes, whiting is listed as the principle solid ingredient. Putty can be made without plaster, but not without whiting. While plaster is listed in many (but not all) recipes, it is always in quantities smaller than those required of whiting -- typically, three or four parts whiting to two or three parts plaster. = Turpentine is the distillate of resin from coniferous trees. It is a commonly-used solvent for oil painting, having a slower evaporation rate, lower level of flammability, and lower toxicity than solvents such as kerosene, which will also thin linseed oil. As turpentine dries, it becomes thick and viscous, which adds to the putty-like quality of waterproofing compound. = Red lead (Pb3O4) is made by heating white lead (basic lead carbonate, 2PbCO3.Pb(OH)2, the corrosion product of lead exposed to acetic or other organic acids, used for pigments in white paints) or litharge (PbO, also called yellow lead or massicot). None of these lead products is commercially available in the United States today, either uncombined or as part of another substance. Red lead is not primarily used as a pigment in paints because it turns black or brown on exposure to air, but its characteristic as an anti-corrosive made it useful as the primary ingredient of rust-inhibiting paints. (The familiar red paint used to prime iron and steel buildings and bridges, most notably the Golden Gate Bridge, was red lead paint.) Although white lead was, for many generations, the principle white paint pigment, lead oxides are more important in paints and putties because they are driers, added to linseed oil to hasten polymerization. When lampblack is used to color the putty, which slows the drying process, the siccative (or drying) nature of red lead becomes even more important. The red lead in waterproofing compound may have served a dual purpose: to help the waterproofing compound set, and to prime the metal. = Since red lead is no longer used in waterproofing compounds, many experienced glaziers and restorers feel that the waterproofing compounds commercially available today are of inferior quality to those available prior to the banning of red and white lead in the United States. They do not set as well or last as long as red lead waterproofing compound. = Lamp black (also called carbon black) is a fine, almost pure carbon powder used as a pigment. It is the soot created from burning petroleum oils, tars or resins. It has been used since time immemorial as an oil pigment. Used as the coloring agent of waterproofing putty, it will retard the drying of the linseed oil unless driers, like red lead, are added. Today, when we cannot use red lead in putty, it is important that the amount of lampblack used is kept to a minimum. = The recipes for waterproofing compound found in stained glass manuals vary. Amounts of materials differ or are not stated and other materials are added depending on the author. These other materials include Japan driers, "patent driers" (metallic salts, usually lead, cobalt, or manganese) and gold size (a fast-drying varnish), added to accelerate the drying of the linseed oil. Some recipes call for "vegetable black" instead of lamp black. (This is a carbon black pigment derived by burning vegetable matter rather than petroleum products.) = The most controversial and potentially dangerous ingredient for window putties is Portland cement. It is only in the last thirty to forty years that Portland cement has found its way into glazing putties. Portland cement is a calcined mixture of roughly three parts of calcium carbonate (chalk or limestone) to one part aluminum silicates (clay). Its name derives from the similarity in appearance and hardness to Portland (England) lime-stone. Portland cement sets up in much the same way plaster of Paris does, by reacting with water to create heat. However, whereas plaster sets very quickly and is ultimately rather brittle but soluble in water, Portland cement continues to harden for a long period of time and results in a very hard, insoluble material. = The reason this material is dangerous to use on windows is its hardness. A leaded glass window must move with the expansion and contraction of the lead came during thermal changes and with wind pressure. As Portland cement hardens and becomes more rigid, it allows the window to move less and less. Because the cement will not flex or crack if the window is forced to move, the glass is likely to break. In addition, because Portland cement is insoluble, it will be virtually impossible to dismantle the panel without breaking glass. It also exhibits excellent adhesion to glass, meaning that even if the panel comes apart, the putty is very difficult to remove from the glass. = Modern commercially available putties usually contain elastomers. These are synthetic compounds designed to keep the putty elastic for many years, preventing it from hardening up to a rock-like consistency. None of these has been around long enough for us to know exactly how long they will perform their task. In Europe, butyl mastic is a favored putty with good aging characteristics, but its workability is only fair and it is not presently available in the United States. = Most of the recipes require that the waterproofing compound be mixed with enough turpentine and linseed oil to render it somewhat soupy or "thick as treacle" (molasses). It is scooped onto the panel and forced under the flanges of the came using a natural bristle brush. Often it oozes out the opposite side of the panel, which is desirable, according to some of the handbooks, because then you know that the putty has gotten into the groove of the came. However, be cautioned that the putty should not be too runny or there will be nothing left under the flanges when the oozing has stopped. = This soupy mixture is not recommended, however, if there is plating on the window. Putty that is runny enough to ooze through the came will continue to ooze between the plates. When plating is present, a stiff, thick putty is a better choice, made by lessening the amount of turpentine used to thin the mixture, or by adding more whiting. It is applied with the thumb, because it is too thick to brush. = In much restoration, a thick putty is often recommended because it is easier to control. Thumbing the putty keeps the spread of oil on the glass in check, making cleaning easier. Also, because a stiff putty does not ooze, cleaning will have to performed less often. In plated windows, each layer of plating must be puttied before the next layer can be soldered in place. This creates its own problems, though, if the putty boils as the leads are heated for soldering. Care must be used in this process. If fragile paint or glass exists, even if it has been consolidated, it may not be desirable to subject it to the rigors of being scrubbed with bristle brushes and oily putty. Paint or glass that is textured could trap the putty and be very difficult to clean. = Regardless of whether thick or thin putty is used, cleaning the panel after puttying is crucial. Studies in Europe have shown that the oils in putty, if not properly cleaned off the glass, will eventually corrode glass paint. Liberal dusting and rubbing with whiting is the most effective, although some glaziers also swear by sawdust. Use of any of these should be accompanied by wearing a dust mask to prevent aspiration of the dust. As the putty sets, further cutting back and cleaning may be necessary to remove oils that travel to the surface. -------------------------------------------------------------- From: wood@telalink.net To: glass@bungi.com = Here is the cement recipe I was given when I learned to do leaded windows: 1 part boiled linseed oil, 1/2 part turpentine, color, and enough whiting to make the consistency that you wish. For color we use black paint tint from the paint store. A little goes a long way. I mix my cement to a thick consistency and thumb push it under the lead came. I clean up with whiting, let it sit for 24 hrs., then turn and repeat for the other side. I clean the glass with Hi-Sheen, then rub polishing compound over the came, dry to a haze, rub off, add black patina, let dry thoroughly, then brush. I use a horse hair brush (brush made of hair from horses) to polish the lead to a shiny black. = Question: Is there such a thing as black whiting or how would one tint it black? Not very often, but sometimes I get just a few spots that tend to show some of the white color of the whiting that I used to clean it. The horse hair brush usually takes care of it, but it would be nice not to have it to begin with. = Sandy Creations In Glass --------------------------------------------------------- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 06:10:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:10:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Bungi Pattern Atlas? Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:11:52 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970617081152.006ad5b4@busprod.com> References: <<199706111954.PAA29638@ddi.digital.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I know I contributed a pattern to this, but have never heard anything since. Is this project still going on...is it online yet? Anyone know??? LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 06:23:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:23:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: hal-pc.org!kkelly From: "Kathryn C. Kelly" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Dragons Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:23:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.32344.0> References: <<3.0.32.19970617083231.006c9b98@mail.bright.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users Precedence: bulk Good Morning Y'all, I have four windows which are approx. 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 feet and which are at the top of an 20-foot wall. I would like to make a dragon which flows from window to window. Any suggestions as to where to find any dragon patterns? Thank you. Kathryn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 06:31:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:31:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: advice needed on many fronts Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:30:51 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.133051.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tiffany, First of all ...... hang in there! I'll give you my 2 cents, and I know you'll get other replies: >I want to do a window for my aunt who loves all things Oriental. Do >you know of any patterns (or pattern collections) of Asian/Oriental >influenced designs? And where to get them? > House Tours I, II and III by Judy Miller has a few Oriental designs. We don't get many requests for this motif (being in the Midwest), but I generally go straight to the Judy Miller books when someone asks for Oriental. >I want to do a window for my cousin who is crazy for elephants. I >ordered a pattern book from a German company, but it is really small. > I guess I could take it to a copy center and have it blown up, but is >this the proper technique for enlarging the pattern? You have GOT to see the elephant pattern in Glassmith Studios book "A Break In Time", page 41, and they also offer a picture of the finished piece. > >Now for the hard questions regarding my unfinished project: > >Is there a good technique for cutting tight corners where multiple >pieces of lead come together? I have taken classes and read books and >everyone seems to have a different theory. My gut feeling is to try >to cut the came at angles that complement the joint so as to minimize >the amount of solder that it takes to complete the joint, but I still >wind up with having to fill and fill and fill. Also, I can't seem to >get the technique of cutting long angles. Any suggestions? Are you removing a small portion of the heart of the came? sometimes when you get into a crowded area, it helps to snip out a 1/8" or so of the heart where the cames come together and miter the face of the cames to an angle. Note that you do not remove any of the face of the came, just the heart. That will allow the glass to seat a bit better and keep your piece from "growing" relative to the pattern. >Lastly, I have finished said window for my newly married brother >(wedding gift). I have been working on it since December. I have >actually built the thing twice and both times I have run into the same >problems with the finished piece -- one side doesn't fit square and >the solder joints are either awesome or deplorable. What can I do? I >am on the verge of taking it apart for the second time and starting >from scratch. It is, I am afraid, slightly beyond my skill level, but >I have done so much work on it already, I have to give up now. So, >what can I do to check it along the way for squareness? I have >quadruple checked the pieces against the pattern, I check it as I'm >building it, but the pattern is one I copied from a Celtic design >book, and I actually just blew up the picture in the book, so there >might be a problem there. I get so frustrated I could just scream >when I look at it. Well, you hit on the one point I was about to make .... ie, whenever you get into trouble, go back to your pattern and make sure your pieces fit there first. If you photocopied the pattern and are trying to batch cut your pieces from one area of the pattern, that would pose a problem. Be sure you are fitting each glass piece to the corresponding pattern piece since a photocopier will skew regions of a print out and slightly change the pattern from one side to the next. In squaring the finished piece, I always build leaded panels on a flat board with 90 degree rail on one corner. I build the piece right into the rails on one corner, then use a framing square on the opposite corner. If the piece is out of square, I lay down a straight strip of board, shorter that the length of the panel, butted up to the line of the panel, and I use a glazing hammer to tap (GENTLY!!!!) on the side of the board. If the glass pieces are just slightly undersized and the lead came is not completely wrapped around the pieces, this will help to seat the pieces and pull the panel into square. Note that I would suggest you get some experience with this technique on panels using cheap glass before you try it on panels with painted and fired pieces or with expensive glass. I think we all know what it's like to jump in on something that zaps your time and patience. Take a breather, but not a vacation, and get back at it! Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 06:36:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Oriental patterns was Advice needed Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:35:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706171335.JAA07026@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Yes this oriental book is probably the best one out there. But a lot of >the designs are not beginner level, very intricate indeed....just like most >oriental designs really are! More patterns can be found in the books: Expressions in Glass by Sherri Pierce ("Year of the Dragon", Geisha "Dancer) Aurora Window Designs by Amy Flynn (several fans, Geisha with Lantern, Geisha with Fan, Geisha with Book) Also, as I recall, CKE had several individual patterns that were quite nice. Stephanie ______________________________________________________________________ ** E-mail: delphigl@voyager.net Delphi Stained Glass ** WWW: http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass 2116 E. Michigan Ave. ** Voice: 1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada) Lansing, MI 48912 ** 1-517-482-2617 (International) USA ** Fax: 1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada) 1-517-482-4028 (International) _____________________________________________________________________ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 06:40:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:39:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: advice needed on many fronts Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:35:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.53511.0> References: <<1997Jun16.85852.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Tiffany Allesina wrote: > > First, let me say that I am brand, spanking new to this list, so if I > say anything out of line, I apologize! > > I have 3 major problems: two are projects I have not yet begun and > one is a project I can't seem to get completed. I'll start with the > easy ones. I'll list my answers under each question, i never really liked that method, but i think it would be easier to read that way. > I want to do a window for my aunt who loves all things Oriental. Do > you know of any patterns (or pattern collections) of Asian/Oriental > influenced designs? And where to get them? i'm reasonably sure there is a oriental panel book out there (i can't remeber the name), but there all panel designs; if some one does'nt remember the name i'll look it up in a catalog. > I want to do a window for my cousin who is crazy for elephants. I > ordered a pattern book from a German company, but it is really small. > I guess I could take it to a copy center and have it blown up, but is > this the proper technique for enlarging the pattern? blowing something up is a matter of personal taste. the proportions should look right, the elephant should'nt look tall and skinny, or short and fat. after blowing it up, you can still simplify it by removing excess lines. > Now for the hard questions regarding my unfinished project: > > Is there a good technique for cutting tight corners where multiple > pieces of lead come together? I have taken classes and read books and > everyone seems to have a different theory. My gut feeling is to try > to cut the came at angles that complement the joint so as to minimize > the amount of solder that it takes to complete the joint, but I still > wind up with having to fill and fill and fill. Also, I can't seem to > get the technique of cutting long angles. Any suggestions? i mainly work in foil, so i'll say let someone else answer that one more accuratly then i can. > Lastly, I have finished said window for my newly married brother > (wedding gift). I have been working on it since December. I have > actually built the thing twice and both times I have run into the same > problems with the finished piece -- one side doesn't fit square and > the solder joints are either awesome or deplorable. What can I do? I > am on the verge of taking it apart for the second time and starting > from scratch. It is, I am afraid, slightly beyond my skill level, but > I have done so much work on it already, I have to give up now. So, > what can I do to check it along the way for squareness? I have > quadruple checked the pieces against the pattern, I check it as I'm > building it, but the pattern is one I copied from a Celtic design > book, and I actually just blew up the picture in the book, so there > might be a problem there. I get so frustrated I could just scream > when I look at it. whenever i build a panel i always make up a jig. mine is usally homosote, with morton strips that make up the sides. other's can be very straight 1x2's. lay them out on your bench, and square those up on the exact finished dimensions of your project; which also includes the space for any border came that you may use. > Sorry for the long message, but I have been on my own for so long with > this hobby that I am having a hard time believing there are others out > there who might be able to help! > > Thanks in advance, > > tiff > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 06:54:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 06:54:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: advice needed on many fronts Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:52:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706171352.IAA27220@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Is there a good technique for cutting tight corners where multiple >pieces of lead come together? Hi Tiff, Welcome to Bungi. Tiffany? heck of a name for a glass person :-) The best answer is no. This is a design consideration, good SG design does not have multiple lead lines converging at one point, and from your recent experience you now know why. Don't let this discourage you from designing your own cartoons though. A couple of suggestions that should help.... change the design by adding a quarter circle, triangle, square or some other form that works with your design to the corner to spread out the came, this is commonly used in SG where lead lines radiate out from a common point....you should also go over your cartoon with a marker ( I use a hilighter) that is the same width as the came you will use, this will show you more accurately what the mitres will look like and if your lead lines are going to blob up anywhere.... you might also consider using a smaller came I have taken classes and read books and >everyone seems to have a different theory. If someone tells you they have a theory about how to butt up lead joints, politely excuse yourself and find someone that knows how to do it. There is only one way ( and one variation ) to properly lead up a window at least as far as how the joints come together. There are however many options as to the sequence of assembly and this will affect the type of angles you have to cut and the overall appearance My gut feeling is to try >to cut the came at angles that complement the joint so as to minimize >the amount of solder that it takes to complete the joint, Thats the way its done but I still >wind up with having to fill and fill and fill. Also, I can't seem to >get the technique of cutting long angles. Any suggestions? It is difficult and challanging. If this is discouraging you, by all means go out and get yourself a came saw. It is a nifty little tool that makes life a lot easier. > I have been working on it since December. I have >actually built the thing twice and both times I have run into the same >problems with the finished piece -- one side doesn't fit square and >the solder joints are either awesome or deplorable. What can I do? I >am on the verge of taking it apart for the second time and starting >from scratch. It is, I am afraid, slightly beyond my skill level, but >I have done so much work on it already, I have to give up now. So, >what can I do to check it along the way for squareness? I have >quadruple checked the pieces against the pattern, I check it as I'm >building it, but the pattern is one I copied from a Celtic design >book, and I actually just blew up the picture in the book, so there >might be a problem there. I get so frustrated I could just scream >when I look at it. You really should check the pattern itself for squareness by measuring across the diagonal corners. If you do not have the binder lead soldered on, get a block of wood and hammer the two sides until it squares up, don't be shy you can rap it good one it's well cushioned, you'll be amazed how much you can move it around. All this info is sight unseen so it might not work for you but I hope it helps > >Sorry for the long message, but I have been on my own for so long with >this hobby that I am having a hard time believing there are others out >there who might be able to help! Your in good hands now...This is glass@bungi... the Salvation Army of Stained Glass in Cyberspace ;-) ;-) Good Luck Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 07:08:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:07:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!DGlswrks From: DGlswrks@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: advice needed on many fronts Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun17.6728.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just a note on the celtic design problem that isn't square. After you blow up a design you need to retrace the pattern on good quality graph paper because there is distortion when you enlarge it. I hope this helps. Dione ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 07:22:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: advice needed Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:20:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706171420.JAA28544@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hey Mike Peck, you said I use a >glazing hammer to tap (GENTLY!!!!) on the side of the board. If the glass >pieces are just slightly undersized and the lead came is not completely >wrapped around the pieces, this will help to seat the pieces and pull the >panel into square. I said > rap it a good one... well I found out something ..... you build a lot tighter windows then I do :-) you precise son of a gun you ;-) Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 07:29:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:28:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: Attachmate.com!TIFFANYA From: Tiffany Allesina To: 'Stained Glass' Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: BIG thanks Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:22:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.02220.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I wanted to take a moment to say THANK YOU to everyone for such awesome suggestions!! I feel like I have just been magically transported to a world where all the people are nice and helpful. WOW! The sad truth is, I may need to start over on my project since I didn't even think that the pattern itself wasn't square....But, the good news is, I have learned a great lesson that will help in the future. Again, thanks to everyone, and I hope to learn lots from you all. tiff ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 10:14:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:13:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Dragons Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:15:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970617121504.006c1560@busprod.com> References: <<3.0.32.19970617083231.006c9b98@mail.bright.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I have four windows which are approx. 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 feet and which are >at the top of an 20-foot wall. I would like to make a dragon which >flows from window to window. Any suggestions as to where to find any >dragon patterns? Kathryn... I'd love to help more because I love to design fantasy creatures, but I design most of my own. Here are 2 small suggestions that might help. 1.) CKE's book: 200 Design Ideas For Stained Glass (there's at least one nice fire-breather). You could probably ask them at their site if they have a book that would suit your purpose...they're quite nice: 2.) Spectrum has a nice pattern of a dragon on their web site: hope this helps...LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 14:01:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bungi Pattern Atlas? Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:00:12 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970617170009.006c8b1c@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 08:11 AM 6/17/97 -0500, you wrote: >I know I contributed a pattern to this, but have never heard anything >since. Is this project still going on...is it online yet? Anyone know??? >LJ I am waiting on Dave Rand to post these patterns to the web site...if anyone can come up with any incentive for him to do so, please do. I have not had a whole bunch of luck communicating with him. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 15:29:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:28:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: American Bevel Designer Software is it worth it? Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:24:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.142455.0> References: <<1997Jun16.15733.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Yes, IMHO it is, a real CAD program, there are pattern libraries, & pictures of glass you can plug in to each drawn outlined area. You can import, patterns, clip art, etc., and 'trace' over the image to create a manipulative bitmap. You can export to several formats. Also if you have an art tablet, you can draw directly into the program. Or place a pattern on the tablet and trace it. Also import scanned images. There are all the standard bevels, plus all the bevel clusters they make. I'm still learning it, and it has a good tutorial built in. Haven't checked lately but I think it is about $25 less than Glass Eye (also a good program, I like designer better though) Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations AlexG2@aol.com wrote: > > I just tried the demo version of American Bevel Designer. Has anyone been > successful at using it? Also are there any ready to go pattern librarys or > glass bitmaps available for the software? > > Any input would be appreciated. > > Alex Gacic > Yes-go to the sight, http://www.americanbevel.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html >And here is the "Billboard" set up to answer questions- > I've copied from the subjects page. > > This billboard was set up to help those of you who are using American Bevel’s > "Designer" Stained Glass CAD program. > > Our "Designer" program was produced for two reasons, 1) to help American Bevel, > Inc. sell bevel clusters and 2) to help the Stained Glass Artist design and sell stained > glass. > > This billboard is our first attempt to start the sharing of information about our > "Designer" program. > > Please feel free to post any questions you have about "Designer" or any helpful hints > you have discovered while using "Designer". > > American Bevel, Inc. hopes you enjoy our effort. > > [ Post Message ] [ FAQ ] > > > > 32 bit program upgrade - Steve K. 21:56:12 6/03/97 (1) > Re: 32 bit program upgrade - American Bevel 12:16:01 6/04/97 (0) > corner bevel bitmaps - Steve Byers 13:39:19 5/14/97 (1) > Re: corner bevel bitmaps - American Bevel, Inc. 11:22:34 5/15/97 (0) > Spectrum Glass Bitmaps - Stephen C. 21:54:16 4/26/97 (3) > Re: Spectrum Glass Bitmaps - American Bevel 13:28:38 4/28/97 (2) > Re: Spectrum Glass Bitmaps - Steve Byers 13:40:55 5/15/97 (1) > Re: Spectrum Glass Bitmaps - American Bevel, Inc. 11:32:20 > 5/16/97 (0) > Test - Benjamin G. Chapman 15:04:51 4/21/97 (0) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 15:55:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:55:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Adhesive Post from ArtMetal list-general interest Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:51:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.145143.0> References: <<3.0.32.19970617170009.006c8b1c@mail.bright.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Here is a post from the ArtMetal list that may be of interest to several. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > Mark asked:>What's the deal with the phone # for Loctite?(800-243-4874) Does > this number > >connect with some technical type? Explain please. > > Yes, if you call that number and then hit 3 when it gives you options, you > will be connected with *an actual person(!!!)* who can assist you in solving > a joining problem. > > We have all heard of Locktite - the stuff you put in threaded holes to > assist in keeping the fastener in the joint - and other stuff that keeps the > fastener from seizing up in the threaded hole. Loctite company sells all > sorts of glues/sealants/epoxies. Their straight consumer product line is > Duro - and you might not get info from them on that product line. > > I have called Loctite when I wanted an optically clear glass adhesive that > had exceptional strength. They can direct you to the best product. For the > optically clear glass adhesive, they set me up with the product number for > an ultraviolet-light curing adhesive. It is neat, you can assemble > everything in regular household light, open the curtains and it sets > immediately! > > The material that I am using for this repair is called Cold Weld Bonding > Compound #14600. It has 3,000 pst tensile strength. It also is resistant to > water, hydraulic fluid, diesel fuel, gasoline, antifreeze, transmission > fluids and motor oil. I am not using it in a tensile stress application. > This material can be machined, drilled or tapped after set up. Full strength > in 16 hours. Sets in 15 minutes. > > I will tell you how it works. > > - - - - - - - - - - V. Weihman > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 16:42:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:41:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!byerwood From: K Wood/C Byers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: test - disregard Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:33:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.03314.0> References: <<199706171352.IAA27220@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Byerwood Productions Precedence: bulk test -- Byerwood Productions ArtWorks & Literary Kathy Wood/Candace Byers ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 16:42:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:41:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!byerwood From: byerwood@ix.netcom.com (K Wood/C Byers) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: test - Byerwood Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:28:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706170428.XAA00009@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk having trouble posting to the list ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 17:13:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:12:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: test - Byerwood Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:08:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.1689.0> References: <<199706170428.XAA00009@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk K Wood/C Byers wrote: > > having trouble posting to the list > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass umm.. what kind of trouble? this one got through. i posted this to both the bungi list and you e-mail... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 17:39:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:38:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bungi Pattern Atlas? Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:39:14 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.113914.0> References: <<3.0.32.19970617170009.006c8b1c@mail.bright.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Hi Joyce, Does this Dave Rand have an e-mail address? If so, let us have it and we will keep reminding him of our investment in this project and our anticipation. T. in Montana glasschic wrote: > > At 08:11 AM 6/17/97 -0500, you wrote: > >I know I contributed a pattern to this, but have never heard anything > >since. Is this project still going on...is it online yet? Anyone know??? > >LJ > > I am waiting on Dave Rand to post these patterns to the web site...if > anyone can come up with any incentive for him to do so, please do. I have > not had a whole bunch of luck communicating with him. > > Garden of Glass > Joyce Moran > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 17:49:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:48:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Bungi Pattern Atlas? Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:48:38 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Bungi Pattern Atlas?" on Jun 17, 17:00, glasschic writes:] > At 08:11 AM 6/17/97 -0500, you wrote: > >I know I contributed a pattern to this, but have never heard anything > >since. Is this project still going on...is it online yet? Anyone know??? > I am waiting on Dave Rand to post these patterns to the web site...if > anyone can come up with any incentive for him to do so, please do. I have > not had a whole bunch of luck communicating with him. Well,...first of all you might want to mail him directly at dlr@bungi.com He is not on the mailing list. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 17 20:01:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:00:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Bungi Pattern Atlas? Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:59:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun17.185948.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Joyce and Phil- Isn't Dave Rand the gentlemen who so kindly and generously makes this spa= ce available to us (and supplies the IGGA website space free of charge)? I might be mistaken.... Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 18 08:02:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Bungi Pattern Atlas? Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:01:36 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Bungi Pattern Atlas?" on Jun 17, 22:59, "Michael J. Greer" writes:] > Isn't Dave Rand the gentlemen who so kindly and generously makes this spa= > ce > available to us (and supplies the IGGA website space free of charge)? I > might be mistaken.... Sure is.. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 18 08:42:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:41:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: grinders Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:43:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun18.44319.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc. Precedence: bulk We have the Glastar, the Inland and DTI Diamond Max for shop use and we take a IV bag fill it with water and coolant and let it drip on the bits and wheel it and the Diamond Max works great. Walter ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 18 13:49:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:48:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Came Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:55:11 +0000 Message-ID: <199706140147.VAA23993@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > John wanted to know an easy way to keep lead came from oxidizing. Albert= > > responds that oxidization is good for the lead. That may be true, but > oxidized lead is a real bear to solder. Oh, duh. I was thinking of after the panel was finished and installed, not of while/before it was soldered. Sorry. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 18 17:30:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:28:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: vgernet.net!cummings From: Bill Cummings To: glass-request Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: looking for qualified craftspersons Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:31:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun18.16312.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cummings Stained Glass Studios, Inc. Precedence: bulk Cummings Studios, well known in the stained glass field for the last 75 years, is looking for two persons obsessed with the medium of stained glass. We are looking for well qualified craftspeople, interested in stained glass as a career. Our craftspeople have been with us for years and we don't have openings very often; we are extremely busy, and we have lost some people to old age. Our most recent craftsperson came last Fall. Our longest craftsperson came 35 years ago to give us a try. We continually learn from one another. We continually ask that you take on responsibility. A well rounded craftsperson with experience in the entire scope of the project is the person we are seeking. We do major restoration of La Farge, Tiffany, Armstrong, etc. as well as new works in leaded, copperfoil, and faceted glass by Pinart, Coombs, Wilson, Haliby, Grandin-Nettles, Herter, Carpenter, and others. Our commissions are found from Hawaii to Maine and El Paso to Detroit. If you are serious about your craft then we are the studio you will want to be with. Call, Teresa at (413) 664-6578. Thank you, Bill Cummings ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 18 17:40:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:39:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!DGlswrks From: DGlswrks@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Now it's cemented... Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun18.163657.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Ok-so I've gotten a lot of great information about cementing and puttying and now I want to know if you all patina your solder joints. I always feels that if the solder joints are bright silver it's distracting but see some panels where th joints are left silver. Any opinions? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 18 17:58:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:57:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:52:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199706190055.BAA01036@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi PJ (and quite a number of others - am working on it....) You are quite correct; Grand-pere Loire died in December 96. The story about that I intended to incorporate into my next "chapter" about our enchanted visit to Chatres. It'll come.... it'll come.... Please be patient....... I did meet Sylvie, but a greater presence was in fact Madame Loire whom I also met there and on 3 subsequent occasions. Quite a power-house and most certainly keeping the Loire gentlemen on the straight and narrow..... I am delighted that I was THE FIRST to tell you folks that Malcolm Miller is scheduled to come over to USA next year. You have obviously heard some more details (in effect - confirming what I originally said .... How wonderful, just ONCE to be FIRST!!! Len and Mike make sure so often that I am kept down to size!! ;-) ) If any of you have the REMOTEST chance to hear, see meet Malcolm Miller when he is over next year in USA, do TRY and make it. He is absolutely rivetting, enormous charm, great simplicity, very graphic. His particular old-fashioned air of British academia in its nicest sense of the word, is something I think you would all find quite endearing. He is totally devoted to his subject - and boy! - does he KNOW it!!!! Hey PJ, you certainly do evoke some memories in me. Just the word "Notre Dame" in Paris. The first time I visited it was in 1975; I was en route to Hungary to take up a 30 months fellowship at the University of Budapest. I didn't have a clue what actually living in Hungary would entail for me. I went totally on my own; my family came with me as far as Paris. There we parted company. We spent 3 weeks in Paris. One evening in July we started walking from Mont Martre all the way up to Notre Dame. Quite a hike folks, and all uphill!!! We eventually arrived up at Notre Dame between 10.30 and 11 o'clock at night. The cathedral was wonderfully cool after the sweaty climb up. It was open (as churches and cathedrals still were in those days) and a gentle stream of late worshippers still going in and out of the cathedral. The tourist season had not quite started. It was a couple of weeks after midsummer, so the evening was still quite light. The whole cathedral was ablaze with candles. Again I was very much affected by the lights and colours around me and the serenity of the cathedral and how the light from the outside combined with the candle force from the inside.. I think we stayed up there for a couple of hours. It was as if it was something we all needed. A couple of days later we parted and I went East. One way or another, I had some rather "interesting" 30 months during my stay in Hungary and related visits in Romania, Czechoslovakia and (the THEN East) Germany. Some experiences were really quite traumatic and rather nerve-racking. The beautifully tranquil and meditative moments inside and around the magic of Notre Dame in Paris stayed with me during this time and was an experience I occasionally had cause to hang on to. And the view over Paris is fabulous!!! There are these rather special spiritual places in the world - so often involving stained glass. Do them credit, visit them either first thing in the morning or late in the evening and avoid the guided tourist crocodile trail at midday. Yes Notre Dame today is covered in scaffolding. You also cannot go and visit the areas under the roof for at least another 2-3 years. Sounds about a right time to organize a trip to me..... ;-) Saint Chappelle: PJ, I don't know HOW may times I have asked you to give me details of its exact location............... One of these days, you will tell me!! I will also reply to your other e-mails to me. ..... it's only 2 am in the morning here.... bed calls... Bon nuit, mes amis Elisabeth 'n Toby PJ wrote: I heard that the older gentleman Lorie just passed on in December of last year. What a remarkable family. Did you happen to meet Sylive in the school behind the Galerie du Vitrail?? The International Centre du Vitrail. She was quite interesting. Gave us a lesson in 13th century painting techniques. Also I just heard that Malcom Miller is coming to the United States next year folks and doing a tour. He is also doing some television work for the United States Discovery Channel and I think another program for PBS. I could listen to the man for hours. Any who is visiting Paris for the glass at Nortre Dame?? It is still closed with scaffolding cover the entire outside. And how about the windows in Sainte Chappelle...I always feel they don't get their just . ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 18 17:58:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:57:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: advice needed on many fronts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:52:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199706190055.BAA01043@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Tiffany, As usual, both Len and Mike have caught me "napping". First of all, as regards their (combined) advice concerning leading techniques, you would do well following their suggestions. Your final "cartoon" must be hand-drawn. Do not rely on a photocopied version. Photo copy machines are known to distort lines. When you draw out your lead-lines, use a felt-tip marker pen which has a thickness of 2 mm (this corresponds very,very closely to the size of the heart of your lead. When you cut your glass, always cut each piece individually, jigsaw-puzzle fashion, and cut WITHIN your black felttip drawing lines. You should ALMOST see the white of the paper, before the line begins. So when you drop your finished piece of glass onto your drawing it should only JUST N O T touch the black line all round. When it comes to leading up, you need a wooden board and 2 straight wooden battens; take a batten (into which you have already hammed 3 nails half-way through), your edging lead and 3-4 pieces of your "edge"-glass. Lay the lead out along your base edge, batten behind it, feed in the "bottom-left-most" glass into the lead, squeeze tight together and now line up according to your drawing (which I must assume you have already checked for "square-ness"). Use elbows, feet, chin and everything else you can think of while you drive the nail in all the way through the board. Now you batten pivots on one nail, Repeat the levelling-up excercise the other end of the batten and use the middle to check that you batten itself is square... Repeat the excersice for a horizontal batten (left hand side - if you are right-handed and vice versa). Start with the first corner piece bottom left and build up your panel fan-shape, so that the last piece you finish with is top right corner. Use either a soft rubber-ended hammer to gently tap the glass tight into the lead - or a trimmed down hand-size piece of batten wood with an ordinary hammer. To squeeze the lead itself tightly round the glass, use either an old discarded bent dinner-knife (don't laugh - I am famous for improvising tools!!), or a plastic "fid" or the proper tool, which I don't know what it's called but it looks like a grape-fruit knife but dull and without the serrated edges. I have had one for years and love it. Push the lead really tight around the glass. You will be surprised just how much "give there is.... Keep some handy pieces of scrap lead and pieces of small rectangular pieces of scrap glass handy. When you are satisfied that you have got one piece of glass exactly where you want it ANCHOR IT DOWN (i.e., tuck a piece of scrap lead against it and nail it down. Conversele, when you have got a strecth of lead exactly where you want it, anchor it down with a piece of scrap glass and put a nail in behind it to keep it tight. You may find that you may need to trim down a piece of glass even more than you first estimated. Be patient and just do it. It will pay off. It is important that you pay great attention to keeping glass and lead anchored down, as it will otherwhise move in all sorts of directions you don't want it to. An extreme example of this is one of my students who arrived and departed to class on bicycle, she packed her panel horizontally in her bicycle bag and was surprised to find every single piece loose at the bottom of her bag when she arrived. One evening I spent about 30 minutes after class just anchoring down her work for her. It was all totally intact the following week, despite potholes. ....... and yes, you DO need to mitre the lead..... One of the first principles designing for stained glass is to look at how lead-lines come together. If there are more than 4 leads coming together at any one point, shift them apart.. My own very FIRST lead-panel has 7 lines coming together (the panel STILL survives - after all these years. I use it for my students to show them how NOT to design for stained glass!!). The solder "blob" is about 1/2 inch in diameter and looks awful. You need to spend time and set time apart, not to look at a " pretty design" but to scour your design critically for too many lines coming together into one "blob". If you genuinely cannot avoid this happening, then ease up your design by adding another piece into the middle of that "blob" , whether it is a circle, half-circle, triangle, square or whatever - ANYTHING to avoid a clumsy "blobby" solder-junction. I spent about half-an-hour chasing around trying to find the book "Oriental Stained Glass Design", to find that I have again been "beaten" to it. It is an EXCELLENT book, true - not for beginners, but you can easily ignore the more intricate lines. Another book which is good on lines and ideas is "Traditional Japanese Design Motifs" by Joseph D'Addetta and also published by Dover Publications. It's also got some splendid "dragon-men" designs. My own favourite oriental source of inspiration is the 19th century Japanese painter Hokusai and his water and tree studies. They are absolutely delicious and translates well to stained glass. Well, Tiffany, that's my 2 cents worth from "Across the Pond" Good Luck and keep us posted!! Elisabeth 'n Toby Tiffany wrote: (snip) I want to do a window for my aunt who loves all things Oriental. Do you know of any patterns (or pattern collections) of Asian/Oriental influenced designs? And where to get them? (snip) Is there a good technique for cutting tight corners where multiple pieces of lead come together? (snip) My gut feeling is to try to cut the came at angles that complement the joint so as to minimize the amount of solder that it takes to complete the joint, but I still wind up with having to fill and fill and fill. (snip) problems with the finished piece -- one side doesn't fit square and the solder joints are either awesome or deplorable. What can I do? I am on the verge of taking it apart for the second time and starting from scratch. It is, I am afraid, slightly beyond my skill level, but I have done so much work on it already, I have to give up now. So, what can I do to check it along the way for squareness? I have quadruple checked the pieces against the pattern, I check it as I'm building it, but the pattern is one I copied from a Celtic design book, and I actually just blew up the picture in the book, so there might be a problem there. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 18 18:56:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:56:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Now it's cemented... Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:51:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun18.175141.0> References: <<1997Jun18.163657.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk DGlswrks@aol.com wrote: > > Ok-so I've gotten a lot of great information about cementing and puttying and > now I want to know if you all patina your solder joints. I always feels that > if the solder joints are bright silver it's distracting but see some panels > where th joints are left silver. Any opinions? > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass a friend of mine swears by JAX pewter patina. he only does lead work, mainly restorations. a quick dab, and it matches the lead really well. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 18 19:25:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Now it's cemented... Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:24:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun18.182446.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk When you have cemented a leaded panel, there is usually no need to patina= anything. The cement darkens the lead and solder joints so the whole pie= ce is quite uniform in color and in burnish.... really lovely. Try it! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 19 09:04:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 09:03:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: Attachmate.com!TIFFANYA From: Tiffany Allesina To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: advice needed on many fronts Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:57:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun19.15728.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elisabeth and Toby (who is, if your home page doesn't mislead, of the canine species, right?), Thanks for the great response. I actually did many of the things you and the rest of the group suggested when building the window, but this particular pattern doesn't lend itself exactly to 'the build from the lower-left corner out' rule. I'm sure you are familiar with Celtic designs, they repeat back on themselves as the knot builds. The problem I got into was that each piece (with the exception of the boarder which was square) needed multiple pieces next to it to hold it tight, so in spite of the fact that I did use the rubber hammer to tap the pieces into the lead, I am not convinced that I was successful in getting them in tightly. I did not consider using scrap glass as holding pieces, but I do use scrap lead and horseshoe nails to hold each piece in as I build. As embarrassing as this is to admit, I didn't check the pattern for squareness, so this weekend, I am going to get some graph paper (great suggestion Dione et al) and retrace the pattern onto it, and see how far off I am. I am hopeful that if I follow your instructions with the 2mm marker, that I may be able to use most of the glass I have already cut and ground. I also need to take more time with planning the lead lines -- I have a terrible habit of rushing (or should I say procrastinating so that I have to rush!) I think I can solve these lead problems fairly easily. One more question then, as I was soldering the joints, I noticed that some of the solder joints were great, they were small, smooth, just enough to get the job done -- made me proud. Others (and these weren't the ones where too many joints met at the same point) were simply awful: blobby, the solder ran onto the glass; what causes this? I don't think my iron was too hot in spite of the fact that it doesn't have a temperature control. I have never had these problems with solder before. Does it have to do with the method flux is applied? On all the other questions, I have called Dover for a catalog and am anxiously awaiting its arrival. I am going to look for the other suggested books on elephants because I'm pretty sure the one I have is a little beyond me right now. I am appalled that people who call themselves teachers have misled me so badly. Horror story #1: I did a beautiful bevel window for my father that did have multiple lead pieces (which I now know is bad and will never do again) all coming together at angles. I spent a great deal of time cutting the heart out of the lead (thanks for reassuring me on that method Don!) so that I could get nice accurate angles. The pieces fit together very well. I took the panel into class and my teacher took the panel apart, re-cut all of my sharp angles to short stubby ones that in the end left a hole about the size of a penny in the middle of the window. Then he said, "Oh, don't worry, I'll show you how to fill the Grand Canyon." I'm sure I don't have to elaborate. I was so upset that the window just sits. I never had the heart to cement it because that nickel-size blob of solder is directly in the center of the window. I think I may try to fix that mistake after I get the Celtic knot done. Lastly, Len, the humor of being named Tiffany was not at all lost on me when I made my one and only lamp... Thanks again everyone, I hope to have encouraging news next time. I really feel a renewed sense of enthusiasm for these undertakings instead of constant dread. I am indebted to you all. tiff ---------- From: Toby[SMTP:toby@northlights.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 1997 6:52 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: advice needed on many fronts Dear Tiffany, As usual, both Len and Mike have caught me "napping". First of all, as regards their (combined) advice concerning leading techniques, you would do well following their suggestions. Your final "cartoon" must be hand-drawn. Do not rely on a photocopied version. Photo copy machines are known to distort lines. When you draw out your lead-lines, use a felt-tip marker pen which has a thickness of 2 mm (this corresponds very,very closely to the size of the heart of your lead. When you cut your glass, always cut each piece individually, jigsaw-puzzle fashion, and cut WITHIN your black felttip drawing lines. You should ALMOST see the white of the paper, before the line begins. So when you drop your finished piece of glass onto your drawing it should only JUST N O T touch the black line all round. When it comes to leading up, you need a wooden board and 2 straight wooden battens; take a batten (into which you have already hammed 3 nails half-way through), your edging lead and 3-4 pieces of your "edge"-glass. Lay the lead out along your base edge, batten behind it, feed in the "bottom-left-most" glass into the lead, squeeze tight together and now line up according to your drawing (which I must assume you have already checked for "square-ness"). Use elbows, feet, chin and everything else you can think of while you drive the nail in all the way through the board. Now you batten pivots on one nail, Repeat the levelling-up excercise the other end of the batten and use the middle to check that you batten itself is square... Repeat the excersice for a horizontal batten (left hand side - if you are right-handed and vice versa). Start with the first corner piece bottom left and build up your panel fan-shape, so that the last piece you finish with is top right corner. Use either a soft rubber-ended hammer to gently tap the glass tight into the lead - or a trimmed down hand-size piece of batten wood with an ordinary hammer. To squeeze the lead itself tightly round the glass, use either an old discarded bent dinner-knife (don't laugh - I am famous for improvising tools!!), or a plastic "fid" or the proper tool, which I don't know what it's called but it looks like a grape-fruit knife but dull and without the serrated edges. I have had one for years and love it. Push the lead really tight around the glass. You will be surprised just how much "give there is.... Keep some handy pieces of scrap lead and pieces of small rectangular pieces of scrap glass handy. When you are satisfied that you have got one piece of glass exactly where you want it ANCHOR IT DOWN (i.e., tuck a piece of scrap lead against it and nail it down. Conversele, when you have got a strecth of lead exactly where you want it, anchor it down with a piece of scrap glass and put a nail in behind it to keep it tight. You may find that you may need to trim down a piece of glass even more than you first estimated. Be patient and just do it. It will pay off. It is important that you pay great attention to keeping glass and lead anchored down, as it will otherwhise move in all sorts of directions you don't want it to. An extreme example of this is one of my students who arrived and departed to class on bicycle, she packed her panel horizontally in her bicycle bag and was surprised to find every single piece loose at the bottom of her bag when she arrived. One evening I spent about 30 minutes after class just anchoring down her work for her. It was all totally intact the following week, despite potholes. ....... and yes, you DO need to mitre the lead..... One of the first principles designing for stained glass is to look at how lead-lines come together. If there are more than 4 leads coming together at any one point, shift them apart.. My own very FIRST lead-panel has 7 lines coming together (the panel STILL survives - after all these years. I use it for my students to show them how NOT to design for stained glass!!). The solder "blob" is about 1/2 inch in diameter and looks awful. You need to spend time and set time apart, not to look at a " pretty design" but to scour your design critically for too many lines coming together into one "blob". If you genuinely cannot avoid this happening, then ease up your design by adding another piece into the middle of that "blob" , whether it is a circle, half-circle, triangle, square or whatever - ANYTHING to avoid a clumsy "blobby" solder-junction. I spent about half-an-hour chasing around trying to find the book "Oriental Stained Glass Design", to find that I have again been "beaten" to it. It is an EXCELLENT book, true - not for beginners, but you can easily ignore the more intricate lines. Another book which is good on lines and ideas is "Traditional Japanese Design Motifs" by Joseph D'Addetta and also published by Dover Publications. It's also got some splendid "dragon-men" designs. My own favourite oriental source of inspiration is the 19th century Japanese painter Hokusai and his water and tree studies. They are absolutely delicious and translates well to stained glass. Well, Tiffany, that's my 2 cents worth from "Across the Pond" Good Luck and keep us posted!! Elisabeth 'n Toby Tiffany wrote: (snip) I want to do a window for my aunt who loves all things Oriental. Do you know of any patterns (or pattern collections) of Asian/Oriental influenced designs? And where to get them? (snip) Is there a good technique for cutting tight corners where multiple pieces of lead come together? (snip) My gut feeling is to try to cut the came at angles that complement the joint so as to minimize the amount of solder that it takes to complete the joint, but I still wind up with having to fill and fill and fill. (snip) problems with the finished piece -- one side doesn't fit square and the solder joints are either awesome or deplorable. What can I do? I am on the verge of taking it apart for the second time and starting from scratch. It is, I am afraid, slightly beyond my skill level, but I have done so much work on it already, I have to give up now. So, what can I do to check it along the way for squareness? I have quadruple checked the pieces against the pattern, I check it as I'm building it, but the pattern is one I copied from a Celtic design book, and I actually just blew up the picture in the book, so there might be a problem there. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 19 10:34:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz From: len alcamo To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: advice needed on many fronts Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:32:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <199706191732.MAA01063@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ' I took the panel into class and my >teacher took the panel apart, re-cut all of my sharp angles to short >stubby ones that in the end left a hole about the size of a penny in >the middle of the window. Then he said, "Oh, don't worry, I'll show >you how to fill the Grand Canyon." I'm sure I don't have to >elaborate. I was so upset that the window just sits. I never had the >heart to cement it because that nickel-size blob of solder is directly >in the center of the window. I think I may try to fix that mistake >after I get the Celtic knot done. I guess anybody can call them self a teacher, that stinks! Tiff, in the mean time you might think about getting a 20mm or a 25mm clear faceted jewel and if you have or can borrow a Dremel Tool with a router bit you could ream out the blob into circlular opening, foil or lead the jewel and solder it in place. Might do the trick Good Luck Len ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 19 14:28:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 14:27:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: advice needed on many fronts Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:22:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun19.132255.0> References: <<1997Jun19.15728.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > > One more question then, as I was soldering the joints, I noticed that > some of the solder joints were great, they were small, smooth, just > enough to get the job done -- made me proud. Others (and these > weren't the ones where too many joints met at the same point) were > simply awful: blobby, the solder ran onto the glass; what causes this? > I don't think my iron was too hot in spite of the fact that it > doesn't have a temperature control. I have never had these problems > with solder before. Does it have to do with the method flux is > applied? my guess it's caused by either too much flux, or too little, i know that's a little vague, but that's the usaul cause. > On all the other questions, I have called Dover for a catalog and am > anxiously awaiting its arrival. I am going to look for the other > suggested books on elephants because I'm pretty sure the one I have is > a little beyond me right now. > > I am appalled that people who call themselves teachers have misled me > so badly. Horror story #1: I did a beautiful bevel window for my > father that did have multiple lead pieces (which I now know is bad and > will never do again) all coming together at angles. I spent a great > deal of time cutting the heart out of the lead (thanks for reassuring > me on that method Don!) so that I could get nice accurate angles. The > pieces fit together very well. I took the panel into class and my > teacher took the panel apart, re-cut all of my sharp angles to short > stubby ones that in the end left a hole about the size of a penny in > the middle of the window. Then he said, "Oh, don't worry, I'll show > you how to fill the Grand Canyon." I'm sure I don't have to > elaborate. I was so upset that the window just sits. I never had the > heart to cement it because that nickel-size blob of solder is directly > in the center of the window. I think I may try to fix that mistake > after I get the Celtic knot done. yeah i noticed teachers really don't know that much (the night school type anyway). they just try to wing it, hoping that know one will notice there incompotence... > tiff ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 19 17:09:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: advice needed on many fronts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 01:05:37 +0000 Message-ID: <199706200008.BAA17821@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Tiffany, You are quite right, Toby is my OES "sleeping partner" (he sleeps a lot) and a great character, and keeps my own nose close to Mother Earth and priorities..... (Did he say "hello" to you??) I thought you might have followed the basic steps suggested (but don't forget, it's often important to cross one's "t's" and dot one's "i's - since there are a considerable amount of newbies and stained glass learners in the Group. As you may be aware I also teach stained glass and have been doing so in further education establishments in UK for many years. I belong to the breed of stained glass teachers who would like to share all I know of stained glass in the the hope of training new people up who will love and work with stained glass as much as I do, to take over one day when I can no longer teach............... Celtic knots pose a particular specialist problem (and boy.... don't I know it!!!). Celtic knots as a design concept is a "pig" in any case. All your lines spirals about and kicks you in the face again the moment you thought you had resolved THAT particular design element.. To translate that into a stained glass design is a DOUBLE "pig" and I am not surprised that you have experienced problems. It';s not really a task for anyone else other than a very experienced designer and stained glass artist to tackle - but that's why it is also such a desireable subject to have a go at........Who doesn't want to try and do the impossible!! The curves required in Celtic Knots stained gl;ass designs are often steep and deep . And, yes, you are right, they often defy the principle of assembling from bottom left to top right. Break a curve you have achieved to cut during assembly and the whole design is screwed up. The Celts were certainly not people in a hurry; their design and artistry is simple, yet immensely intricate and complicated and required an awful lot of patience - and time. You do likewhse, when faced with a Celtic design for stained glass. The shapes are simple - or at least they LOOK that way. The more you get into it, the more you realize just how much thought and time goes into successfully achieving that simplicity. So DOUBLE the time you originally estimated for a Celtic (or Runic) design and USE that time. You will need it. Your final "cartoon" should be totally accurate, it should be your "Bible". Get your drawing right and then stick to it and you can't go wrong!! Another reminder; it's not enough to just get the glass in tight - make sure you also get the LEAD in tight. Get your drawing ABSOLUTELY right first. I have said this before in the Group in many variations; I suffer absolutely agony for ages with my drawing and drawingS. They have to be ABSOLUTELY right, squared up, every detail thought of, every problem solved, looked at time and time again. Particular problem areas I wil experiment with clear scrap glass first. I might even make a "dummy run" on clear glass, if need be. A couple of years ago, one of students presented me with a design for a "near-Tiffany" style lamp she wanted to make in my class. I told her she could go ahead, if she made a clear glass dummy first. She gritted her teeth and probably called me many names that I didn't hear; but she did it; she went through with it and learnt many invalueable lessons because of it. She then completed her final version and got a University place in UK because of it I am attending her Final Year Show" in a few days time glowing with pride. But THAT lamp, we will both remember until our respective graves....... But Yes!! scrap lead on glass and scrap glass on lead! Makes sense doesn't it. Horse-shoe nails yes. They are great! Why aren't there more horses around (and black-smiths!!?) Take time! Take time! Be patient! Solder running onto the glass; . not enough flux maybe?? Iron too hot?? Once the joint has been allowed to cool down, you should be able to "mop this up".Very often I find that when my students have JUST bought a brand new iron, that iron is ferociously hot; it melts everything in sight. A new iron is like a new car, it needs to be "run in". That takes time. What solder are you using? What flux? There could be all sorts of factors. As regards your story about teachers: I suppose in simplistic terms there are 3 kinds of teachers; 1. Who teaches because it gives them an ego-trip 2. It's a way to earn extra money 3. They want to teach stained glass. Bear that in mind. None of them are necessarily wrong. It just depends on what you want to get out of the course. Your questions and probelems sound real and sincere and from your approach I just know that you will get there. Stained glass is not easy; it combines so many aspects; it's visual, artististic, and dirty. It's a craft oin one hand an art on the other. It falls very much between two stools. It's not an art-form like "paint-by-numbers"; one really has to get stuck in there, get bloodied, injured and swept up. It's not for the faint-hearted. Your eye for design, your eye for colour, your eye for harmony will be totally challenged, as will the strength of your back, your care of your finger nails and your fear of blood, as well as your ability to create something with your hands. You are part artist, part craftsman. Stick with it, don't give up. I think I can detect the real seeds of a proud stained glass artist here. I would love to see what you have done so far. PATIENCE!!!!! Elisabeth 'n Toby Tiffany wrote: Elisabeth and Toby (who is, if your home page doesn't mislead, of the canine species, right?), Thanks for the great response. I actually did many of the things you and the rest of the group suggested when building the window, but this particular pattern doesn't lend itself exactly to 'the build from the lower-left corner out' rule. I'm sure you are familiar with Celtic designs, they repeat back on themselves as the knot builds. The problem I got into was that each piece (with the exception of the boarder which was square) needed multiple pieces next to it to hold it tight, so in spite of the fact that I did use the rubber hammer to tap the pieces into the lead, I am not convinced that I was successful in getting them in tightly. I did not consider using scrap glass as holding pieces, but I do use scrap lead and horseshoe nails to hold each piece in as I build. As embarrassing as this is to admit, I didn't check the pattern for squareness, so this weekend, I am going to get some graph paper (great suggestion Dione et al) and retrace the pattern onto it, and see how far off I am. I am hopeful that if I follow your instructions with the 2mm marker, that I may be able to use most of the glass I have already cut and ground. I also need to take more time with planning the lead lines -- I have a terrible habit of rushing (or should I say procrastinating so that I have to rush!) I think I can solve these lead problems fairly easily. One more question then, as I was soldering the joints, I noticed that some of the solder joints were great, they were small, smooth, just enough to get the job done -- made me proud. Others (and these weren't the ones where too many joints met at the same point) were simply awful: blobby, the solder ran onto the glass; what causes this? I don't think my iron was too hot in spite of the fact that it doesn't have a temperature control. I have never had these problems with solder before. Does it have to do with the method flux is applied? On all the other questions, I have called Dover for a catalog and am anxiously awaiting its arrival. I am going to look for the other suggested books on elephants because I'm pretty sure the one I have is a little beyond me right now. I am appalled that people who call themselves teachers have misled me so badly. Horror story #1: I did a beautiful bevel window for my father that did have multiple lead pieces (which I now know is bad and will never do again) all coming together at angles. I spent a great deal of time cutting the heart out of the lead (thanks for reassuring me on that method Don!) so that I could get nice accurate angles. The pieces fit together very well. I took the panel into class and my teacher took the panel apart, re-cut all of my sharp angles to short stubby ones that in the end left a hole about the size of a penny in the middle of the window. Then he said, "Oh, don't worry, I'll show you how to fill the Grand Canyon." I'm sure I don't have to elaborate. I was so upset that the window just sits. I never had the heart to cement it because that nickel-size blob of solder is directly in the center of the window. I think I may try to fix that mistake after I get the Celtic knot done. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 19 19:17:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 19:16:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!dariece From: dariece@juno.com (Dariece G. McClure) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: advice needed on many fronts Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:23:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun19.16237.0> References: <<199706200008.BAA17821@linux.nildram.co.uk>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Elisabeth n Toby: I just wanted to say thanks for your replies to Tiffany. I really got a lot out of them. I am still fairly new to SG and I really enjoy being a part of this group. It is really giving me the opportunity to grow with this hobby. Thanks again. Dariece ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 19 21:57:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:55:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: tir.com!stnglass From: stnglass@tir.com (stnglass) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706200455.AAA28892@tir.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have a question " Is stained glass an Art or a Craft"? I'm new at this and my friends have asked me the question and I'm not certain what the answer is. Thank you SM ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 19 22:08:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:07:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 20 Jun 97 01:10:26 -0400 Message-ID: <199706200507.BAA24982@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear SM, My feeling is that stained glass is both an art and a craft, and a most wondrous art and craft it is! The art is in the designing and selection of glass. The craft is in the workmanship. My best, Suzanne Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 00:47:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:46:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: hawk.rmplc.co.uk!mdcglas From: Phil Speedwell To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 20 Jun 97 08:46:58 +0100 Message-ID: <199706200744.HAA22875@mx0.rmplc.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I couldn't agree more Phil Suzanne said >The art is in the designing and selection of glass. The craft is in the >workmanship. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 04:55:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 04:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:55:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun20.35517.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm new to stained glass but not so new to crafts and you are right, = Suzanne but I'd like to expand on the word . Stained glass is a = craft only in the sense of the word referring to . And = the only way I can get a piece to turn out is to remember that. The = minute I approach a piece (even a simple piece) a just a craft (read = week-end, spare time, assembly of raw materials to turn out something = quick) I get bit in the butt by the whole thing and am not at all happy = with the outcome. I must treat each piece with respect from start to = finish. It does not come as easily to me as crafts (you know glue-stick = and flowers and fibers). Art? Definitely. Craft? Yes, but only as it = relates to craftsmanship like pottery, quilting, black-smithing, weaving = and such. My 2 cents, Linda Suzanne said: My feeling is that stained glass is both an art and a craft, and a most=20 wondrous art and craft it is! The art is in the designing and selection of glass. The craft is in the=20 workmanship. My best, Suzanne Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 05:07:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 05:06:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Randolphs4 From: Randolphs4@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Patience and confidence Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun20.4634.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi! everybody, I have been receiving and reading this "chat line" for awhile now and am both impressed and encouraged by the proffessionalism of all who contribute. It is refreshing to find artists who are generous with their knowledge. I have been in the stained glass business for 15 years and have recently gone away from the large studio setting to open my own studio for that same purpose,I am confident enough in my ability to know that I can do better work on an individual basis both in my own designs and on a personal level. I am also a teacher who wants to share my knowledge as well as the passion we all have for this very unforgiving medium.At this time I do not have a question or problem to share just my thanks for all who keep me hopeful that this is not a dying art and there is room for us who are idealistic and want to do our ART. thank you......GLASSCRAFTERS ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 05:37:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 05:36:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Baltimore, Can we meet up? Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:35:40 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970620083539.00692138@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Can we set a time and place for the Bunginians to meet at the convention next week? I would suggest the Warner Crevillo booth at 1pm Friday? Any other suggestions? A head count? Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 06:40:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones From: "Robert E. Jones" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun20.54527.0> References: <<199706200455.AAA28892@tir.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, stnglass wrote: > I have a question " Is stained glass an Art or a Craft"? I'm new at this and > my friends have asked me the question and I'm not certain what the answer is. It depends on YOUR point of view. I myself view it as a craft. I learned how to do it and now am practicing the skills. People who do original work (ie.-designing and patterns probably view it as an art. What ever, just enjoy working with the glass, don't think TOO much. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 06:45:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 06:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Art or Craft???? Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706201343.JAA22372@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk SM wrote, >I have a question " Is stained glass an Art or a Craft"? I'm new at this and >my friends have asked me the question and I'm not certain what the answer is. Ah...the old art or craft debate. I think you will probably get a number of answers on this one. Mine is that................................................................ The Craft of Stained Glass is truly an Art!!!! Pure and simple. Now if you want to get into the long discussion about Crafts.....we can do that one too. Or Art??? This one is the short version cause I am running real late................ my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 07:10:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:10:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:05:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun20.6545.0> References: <<199706200455.AAA28892@tir.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk stnglass wrote: > > I have a question " Is stained glass an Art or a Craft"? I'm new at this and > my friends have asked me the question and I'm not certain what the answer is. > > Thank you > SM > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's a bit of both. if you create your own piece from scratch, i count it as an art. if it's done as a hobby, or done from pattern books it's a craft. however under most catagories, stained glass, is counted as a craft. i've rarely seen an art show, (with a painting mix), have stained glass. though i've seen art meuseums with tiffany in it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 07:11:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:11:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@BUNGI.COM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Amended cement recipe Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 10:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706201411.KAA23240@water.waterw.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Elizathe wrote, > > >I did meet Sylvie, but a greater presence was in fact Madame Loire >whom I also met there and on 3 subsequent occasions. Quite a >power-house and most certainly keeping the Loire gentlemen on the >straight and narrow..... >Saint Chappelle: PJ, I don't know HOW may times I have asked you to >give me details of its exact location............... >One of these days, you will tell me!! I will also reply to your other I am sorry I thought I gave you details on Sainte Chappelle before you left on your trip. Opps!!!! Anyway Sainte Chapelle is located in The Cite. It was a shrine that architect Pierre of Montereau contstructed in thess than 33 months in 1248. Built to shelter relics and persoanl items of Baudouin, who was Emperor of Constantinople. It is located at the Palais De Justice. Quite a place. (Saw an apartment I would I have loved to live in their.....except Its a government own building!!!) Ok...the chapel........................It was a feat of balance so perfect that no cracks have appear in more than seven centuries... Not the windows but the building!!!!!!!The building seems to possess practically no walls ...its roof is supported on slender pillars and buttresses between which are windows nearly 50ft. high. The lower chapel whcih was intended for palace servants. The chamber is 17m wide and only 7m high....56 x 23 ft...........the pavement is made of tombstone and there are canons buried beneath. Writing on the pavement tells of this. Ok the good part.............................A very tiny spiral staircase leads to the upper chapel.................up the steps and at the top you approach your eyes trying to adjust from the darkness..............your head probably down because you need to see where your walking.........................and then............................................Heaven. These stained glass windows are the oldest in Paris. 1134 scenes on glass spread over an area of 672 square feet. They were restored in the mid 19th century. The illustrations in the windows tell the stories from the Old and New Testaments. And are read from bottom to top. Binoculaire a must!!!!! After you spend hours looking at these wonders I suggest you stand but the top of the spiral staircase. I stood there for about a half hour just listening to the comments as people come to the top of the steps and look ahead. Just a short story. I could go on for hours on these windows. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 07:18:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:18:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr From: "NC Scouter" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: arriving at AGSA Trade Show... Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:12:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun8.31225.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. Precedence: bulk Hi bungians! My husband & I will be representing my studio at the AGSA show in Baltimore too!! We will be there Thursday through Sunday. Hope to meet many of you there, and are we doing anything special to be able to recognize each other as bungians? H'asta la vista! Valerie Tydings Phelps Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. Wanchese, NC -- ________ "But we have this treasure | | in jars of clay..." ( ) ( ) 2cor4.7niv (________) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 09:19:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:17:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Redware1 From: Redware1@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Band Saw & China Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun20.81629.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I am doing some mosaic work and need to take centers and specific designs out of china plates. Does anyone know if a stained glass saw would work for this? I have used mosaic nippers, but very often the centers break. Any other suggestions? Also, would a certain blade be needed? TIA Diane ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 09:27:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:27:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: Attachmate.com!TIFFANYA From: Tiffany Allesina To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:20:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun20.22053.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk My two cents' worth... I wholeheartedly consider stained glass an art -- and if I had any doubt before, the passion (and talent) that the folks in this group exhibit is proof positive. It's kind of ironic, because one reason that stained glass was originally attractive to me was because I thought I didn't have to have any (artistic) talent. But the first project I did was a design of my own inspired by Frank Lloyd Wright. My second was a 10-panel lamp. My undertakings have only gotten more complicated from there. I took a year of art history in college with a bunch of annoying purists whom I am sure would dismiss stained glass as craft (and say it with disdain in their voices no less), but I remember the first time I saw a Tiffany window (which, I might add, was in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY), it sent a chill down my spine (an experience reserved for only those times when I am deeply moved). I had the same experience in Oregon a few weeks ago in a glass store, there was this stunning piece of a forest scene with lush greens and huge trees, it was breathtaking. The use of colors and textures and different glasses...My father came along with me to see what this hobby was all about. When we were driving home, he said with a tinge of awe, "Did you see that window?". Something like that couldn't be anything but art. tiff ---------- From: M. Savad[SMTP:morn@nac.net] Sent: Friday, June 20, 1997 7:05 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message stnglass wrote: > > I have a question " Is stained glass an Art or a Craft"? I'm new at this and > my friends have asked me the question and I'm not certain what the answer is. > > Thank you > SM > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's a bit of both. if you create your own piece from scratch, i count it as an art. if it's done as a hobby, or done from pattern books it's a craft. however under most catagories, stained glass, is counted as a craft. i've rarely seen an art show, (with a painting mix), have stained glass. though i've seen art meuseums with tiffany in it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 09:49:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:48:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: digital.net!agw From: Jennifer Daniels To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Art Glass World Update Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199706201648.MAA10700@ddi.digital.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk --Art Glass World Update-- Late Breaking News-- AGSA Source '97-International Art Glass Suppliers Trade Show Premiere trade event for the art glass industry. Art glass retailers, studios and wholesalers come to buy and learn (over 200 hours of seminars and workshops). Exhibits feature art glass products, tools, equipment and services from all across the broad art glass spectrum. Top manufacturers, wholesalers and publishers exhibit at the show and offer everything from sheets of glass, lamps, beads, kaleidoscopes, paperweights, and more. Click on banner from AGW Education page at http://www.artglassworld.com/edu.html. New Members-- Sunshine Glassworks Ltd. Full line supplier of stained glass tools and supplies. Sunshine Glass is able to serve the needs of all workers in Stained Glass: Commission Studios, Production Shops, Full Service Retail Stores, Home Studios and Hobbyists. You can find everything you need at Sunshine! Click on banner from New Products page at http://www.artglassworld.com/newpro.html. New Features-- New Products Page Check out the latest new glass art books, tools and accessories including new mosaic products. Brought to you by the Stained Glass News and Sunshine Glassworks Ltd. Visit http://www.artglassworld.com/newpro.html. If you're going to be at the AGSA show in Baltimore don't forget to stop by booth #804 so we may meet our valued AGW visitors. ================================================================ Jennifer Daniels agw@digital.net Art Glass World http://www.artglassworld.com 4002 W. State Street phone: 813-348-0605 Tampa, FL 33609 USA fax: 813-872-6288 ================================================================ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 09:58:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 09:57:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: boffo.com!barb From: "Barbara A. Roman" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Band Saw & China Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:00:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun20.907.0> References: <<1997Jun20.81629.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Boffo Games, Inc. Precedence: bulk Redware1@aol.com wrote: > > I am doing some mosaic work and need to take centers and specific designs out > of china plates. Does anyone know if a stained glass saw would work for > this? I have used mosaic nippers, but very often the centers break. Diane, I have no response, but I do have a question for _you_. I picked up some old china plates that I was interested in cutting pieces out of to make brooches. I could use any part of the trim, but I may wish to trim a rough shape or design. I was thinking of trying it with an old glass cutter, but do you think a mosaic nipper would be effective from your experience? Also, have you (or anyone else) used a grinder on plate pieces? Would it ruin the piece or the grinder bit? Thanks, barb barb@boffo.com > > Any other suggestions? Also, would a certain blade be needed? TIA > > Diane ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 12:11:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Band Saw & China Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:07:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun20.11713.0> References: <<1997Jun20.81629.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Redware1@aol.com wrote: > > I am doing some mosaic work and need to take centers and specific designs out > of china plates. Does anyone know if a stained glass saw would work for > this? I have used mosaic nippers, but very often the centers break. > > Any other suggestions? Also, would a certain blade be needed? TIA > > Diane Either a band saw or a ring saw would work fine-the ring saw would be a little more forgiving in the cutting. No danger of using nippers, and having a 'break' run off where you did not want it. Ring saw blades are coated with diamond all around and cut in any direction. I have a Taurus II and just love it, even cut soft metals with it. (Don't try to cut steel, etc.) Also there is no need to 'grind' a piece if your cut is accurate. If you are near a local retail glass shop, stop in and try a 'demo' on one. That was all I had to do to convince me. And a diamond bit on a grinder would not be harmed by china. Hope this helps- Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 12:30:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:30:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Band Saw & China Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:34:32 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970620153432.006d8fc4@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997Jun20.81629.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hello, Fellow Bungians, I'm so excited! Someone, "sometwo" actually, raised a topic in which I have some little experience that might be useful. I feel I get so much here and give so little, so for what it's worth ... Diane wrote: >> I am doing some mosaic work and need to take centers and specific designs out >> of china plates. Does anyone know if a stained glass saw would work for >> this? I have used mosaic nippers, but very often the centers break...>> Any other suggestions? Also, would a certain blade be needed? And Barbara Roman wrote: > ...I picked up >some old china plates that I was interested in cutting pieces out of to >make brooches. I could use any part of the trim, but I may wish to trim >a rough shape or design. I was thinking of trying it with an old glass >cutter, but do you think a mosaic nipper would be effective from your >experience? Also, have you (or anyone else) used a grinder on plate >pieces? Would it ruin the piece or the grinder bit? I do a lot of tile/mosaic work in what I call stained glass style ... that is, I cut out the tile in parts to form a whole, if you will. I use a portable 3 3/8" saw (Mikita makes mine) to do the rough cutting, the nippers to refine the shape further and my Wizard grinder to smooth the edges. The grinder is perfectly happy doing this work, and I have seen no difference in the bits. I use the same bits for grinding my stained glass pieces (I do much less glass work than tile, though and I do mix tile and glass sometimes, BTW. And I do some traditional foiled glass pieces, too, but branch of glass mosaics is my love.) I have had success with plates ... the sort of cutting you require of your plate, Diane, is a little tricky, even with the saw, but I have very few breaks where I don't want them now that I use a saw instead of just nippers. My grinder overheated once, but it was after a long period of constant grinding ... I got into a kind of 'production line mode' and just didn't stop. That was 6 months or more ago, and I'm still putting it to good hard use. The saw is a wet/dry saw, but I find it unnecessary to use the water bottle ... it makes a huge mess anyway. I've also contrived a way to mount the saw upside down on a bench so that it becomes a mini tile saw. Let me know if you want more details. Without the water, it does make a lot of dust and a mask is absolutely essential. When I can, I work outside in the breeze where the dust can be blown away from me. There are several sorts of blades. I use the one it came with ... and found it to be long lasting and neat. My husband recently bought me a fancy blade of some sort ... I haven't tried it out yet. I bought the saw, which is battery operated, BTW, at Home Depot for about $120, and the guys there were very knowledgeable ... but as they say, YMMV. Not every Home Depot is the same. I do find that I needed 3 batteries when I am working hard. If I am working as I usually do, the spare battery is usually charged by the time I use the other one up, but occasionally I use the saw so much that I am happy to have that third one charged up. Barbara, I have tried using my pistol grip glass cutter on tile and have had no success though I have seen people do it at the tile trade show ... but they must use a particular tile or know some trick I can't fathom, so I stick to tile nippers and my saw. Well, this is much more than many of you want to know about tile ... 'course, if that's true you probably didn't read this far! In any case, please let me know if you have any other questions. Hope this helps. Cheers, M.-J. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 13:21:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:20:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: advice needed on many fronts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:16:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199706202020.VAA31407@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Dariece, Thank you for for your kind tribute. It's nice to think that when I am burning the midnight oil over here, someone "over there" is enjoying my message and is getting something out of it. Kind regards Elisabeth 'n Toby Dariece wrote: I just wanted to say thanks for your replies to Tiffany. I really got a lot out of them. I am still fairly new to SG and I really enjoy being a part of this group. It is really giving me the opportunity to grow with this hobby. Thanks again. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 13:21:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:20:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: An Art or a Craft? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:16:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199706202020.VAA31393@linux.nildram.co.uk> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi SM, You have already got a couple of replies to your question, showing you that it's BOTH. My last input regarding Tiffany's questions will expand a bit more about my 2 cents worth. My Best Elisabeth 'n Toby I have a question " Is stained glass an Art or a Craft"? I'm new at this and my friends have asked me the question and I'm not certain what the answer is. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 14:20:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:20:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Band Saw & China Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:15:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun20.131554.0> References: <<1997Jun20.81629.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Redware1@aol.com wrote: > > I am doing some mosaic work and need to take centers and specific designs out > of china plates. Does anyone know if a stained glass saw would work for > this? I have used mosaic nippers, but very often the centers break. > > Any other suggestions? Also, would a certain blade be needed? TIA > > Diane > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the things that come to mind would be either a grinder hole cutter. or a dremel with a diamond tip. with the dremel you could carve out the pieces just a bit, so you could get a fill of cement. or cut all the way through if you wan't a glass inlay. just be sure to use water, for the same reasons the grinder has. using a grinder would work, but would be alot harder to align. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 15:14:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:13:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: choosing lead came Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun20.141259.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks for the suggestions regarding lead came! Elizabeth made some very nice points about the craft, and the best advice ever....patience. Thanks again! ....is there a catalogue selling patience? I didn't see it listed in the Warner-Criv catalog....lol Maureen mosfunland@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 15:29:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:29:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: tznet.com!DIACCA From: Topp Shop & Gallery To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Source Bunginians Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:25:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970620222528.006dccd4@mail.tznet.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk HI! in reference to: Warner Crevillo booth meeting at 1:00 Friday, sounds good to me. Did I read once that we should wear a bungi cord? I will do so. Will wear it as a necklace with maybe a fused pendant? What ever! Any other suggestions? Pat IT FINALLY WARMED UP HERE IN WISCONSIN, WE NEVER GET SPRING, JUST TWO SEASONS, 6 MONTHS OF WHITE, AND 6 MONTHS OF ORANGE. Barrels that is. THE TOPP SHOP & GALLERY, Works by DIACCA, Kiln worked glass bowls, plates & jewelry. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 18:59:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:57:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Source Bunginians Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun20.175623.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I won't be there, but I wore mine to Warners to meet Robert Oddy..... Maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 19:35:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:34:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw & China Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:17:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun20.181718.0> References: <<1997Jun20.81629.0>>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Well, I think my question was answered before I got a chance to ask. Someone just gave me a bunch of tile (bathroom-type ceramic tile), very nice, to use in my garden stones. I've only used glass so far, so this is new to me. I wanted to know if I could use my cutter on it. I didn't want to risk damaging it without asking first. What are tile nippers? Are they like the mosaic cutters? I'm just trying to figure out what I can to with this tile! Jerri >Barbara, I have tried using my pistol grip glass cutter on tile and >have >had no success though I have seen people do it at the tile trade show >... >but they must use a particular tile or know some trick I can't fathom, >so I >stick to tile nippers and my saw. > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 20 19:42:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:41:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: fast.net!warnerc From: Warner-Crivellaro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Baltimore, Can we meet up? Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:38:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun20.183835.0> References: <<3.0.32.19970620083539.00692138@mail.bright.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk glasschic wrote: > > Can we set a time and place for the Bunginians to meet at the convention > next week? I would suggest the Warner Crevillo booth at 1pm Friday? Any > other suggestions? A head count? > > Garden of Glass > Joyce Moran That would be great! Just to let everyone know, Warner-Crivellaro's booth numbers are 325 and 424. Robert Oddy will also be there to display his incredible work for those of you who were not able to attend his visit to Warner-Crivellaro a couple of weeks ago. We look forward to seeing to you in Baltimore! Elenie http://www.warner-criv.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 21 00:51:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:50:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Mosaic Tile Cutters and Stepping Stones Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:54:06 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970621035406.006e1854@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997Jun20.81629.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Jerri, I'm so glad you mentioned mosaic cutters. I had forgotten I wanted to try those. Last February there were some posts re: mosaic glass cutters. Gloria (I think) wrote: One brand name is Leponitt Mosaic Glass Cutter and Hudson has that brand.. another mosaic cutter can be found at Delphi in their catalog . And someone else wrote: > >> 2 cutting wheels and is supposed to "easily nip glass into > geometric shapes". > >Yes, I use it.. Also i keep it at my cutting table, I nip off the areas > > of my glass is the break line was not close to the pattern. this saves > >me from grinding all that. So, obviously I can't compare nippers with cutters. And I don't have the impression that they are meant for ceramic tile, but I'd like to know for sure myself! I'm sure someone on list sold them, too ... but I can't seem to find that email, so perhaps they will chime in here and educate us further. Please! I have lots of information on stepping stones if you want it ... including a great compilation of bungi list archives that Dawn went to the trouble to make and a file of posts to AOL boards. If anyone wants my "stuff" on stones, let me know by private email, (athena@bridge.net) please, so we don't take up list space. I may be a little slow in sending it along ... I have company this weekend ... Cheers, M.-J. At 10:17 PM 6/20/97 -0400, you wrote: > Well, I think my question was answered before I got a chance to >ask. Someone just gave me a bunch of tile (bathroom-type ceramic tile), >very nice, to use in my garden stones. I've only used glass so far, so >this is new to me. I wanted to know if I could use my cutter on it. I >didn't want to risk damaging it without asking first. What are tile >nippers? Are they like the mosaic cutters? I'm just trying to figure >out what I can to with this tile! > >Jerri > > >>Barbara, I have tried using my pistol grip glass cutter on tile and >>have >>had no success though I have seen people do it at the tile trade show >>... >>but they must use a particular tile or know some trick I can't fathom, >>so I >>stick to tile nippers and my saw. >> >> >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 21 02:19:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:19:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Baltimore, Can we meet up? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun21.11852.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sounds Great! I'll be there!!! Was wondering how to meet up with fellow bungians. Eleanor ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 21 05:41:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:41:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Baltimore Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 06:35:39 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970610061744.254f3f08@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi; I dumped all the Baltimore messages since I couldn't go....but I just remembered some friends who might go... and then relay to me.. or take pictures etc... where? when? who? thanks meg Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 21 05:41:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:41:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Band Saw & China Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 06:35:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970610061742.272fc9c2@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerri; a friend who lays tile for a living says you can use a glass cutter on them.... I wouldn't use my best though! I had some moderate success.... also there are tile cutters around not very expensive here anyway....have a wheel thingy that slides up and down on a bar, and scores the tile. Then you push down on a handle and it breaks the tile (supposedly) on the score (like glass running pliers)....some tiles work great... some were a pain. and it only does straight cuts.. but if you want straight sided geometric shapes, that might work. I have ordered mosiac cutters, they will arrive here 2am Friday.... will let you know... Meg At 10:17 PM 6/20/97 -0400, you wrote: > Well, I think my question was answered before I got a chance to >ask. Someone just gave me a bunch of tile (bathroom-type ceramic tile), >very nice, to use in my garden stones. I've only used glass so far, so >this is new to me. I wanted to know if I could use my cutter on it. I >didn't want to risk damaging it without asking first. What are tile >nippers? Are they like the mosaic cutters? I'm just trying to figure >out what I can to with this tile! > >Jerri > > >>Barbara, I have tried using my pistol grip glass cutter on tile and >>have >>had no success though I have seen people do it at the tile trade show >>... >>but they must use a particular tile or know some trick I can't fathom, >>so I >>stick to tile nippers and my saw. >> >> >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 21 07:16:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 07:16:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Band Saw & China Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 10:12:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun21.61242.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19970610061742.272fc9c2@sol.racsa.co.cr>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Richard LaVal wrote: > > Jerri; > a friend who lays tile for a living says you can use a glass cutter > on them.... I wouldn't use my best though! I had some moderate success.... > also there are tile cutters around not very expensive here anyway....have a > wheel thingy that slides up and down on a bar, and scores the tile. Then > you push down on a handle and it breaks the tile (supposedly) on the score > (like glass running pliers)....some tiles work great... some were a pain. > and it only does straight cuts.. but if you want straight sided geometric > shapes, that might work. I have ordered mosiac cutters, they will arrive > here 2am Friday.... will let you know... Meg Hi Meg, When I was at Wal-Mart yesterday (do they have one there?) I saw a Tile Cutter machine like you describe-on sale $17.95. Did not get it cause I am not doing tile right now. However, I did get a good pair of 'tile nippers' for $11.99 to help trim some thick class. 'Works pretty good. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 21 08:10:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 08:10:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Band Saw & China Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:05:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun21.7531.0> References: <<1997Jun20.181718.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerri M Roey wrote: > > Well, I think my question was answered before I got a chance to > ask. Someone just gave me a bunch of tile (bathroom-type ceramic tile), > very nice, to use in my garden stones. I've only used glass so far, so > this is new to me. I wanted to know if I could use my cutter on it. I > didn't want to risk damaging it without asking first. What are tile > nippers? Are they like the mosaic cutters? I'm just trying to figure > out what I can to with this tile! > > Jerri > > >Barbara, I have tried using my pistol grip glass cutter on tile and > >have > >had no success though I have seen people do it at the tile trade show > >... > >but they must use a particular tile or know some trick I can't fathom, > >so I > >stick to tile nippers and my saw. > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass a glass cutter will work, providing there is a glaze on the tile. the nippers are the usual thing used to break off pieces of ceramic tile. used to make inide cuts etc. an acual tiler would'nt have the convience of a diamond band saw (usaully). the nippers have 2 anvil cabide tips that bits the pieces off. mosaic cutters have wheel like cutters, which has less control cutting inside curves in tile. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 21 08:28:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 08:27:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Baltimore Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:27:15 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970621112713.006dd78c@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 06:35 AM 6/21/97 -0600, you wrote: >Hi; > I dumped all the Baltimore messages since I couldn't go....but I >just remembered some friends who might go... and then relay to me.. or take >pictures etc... where? when? who? thanks meg >Richard and Meg LaVal The Warner Crevellaro booth at 1pm Friday June 27th. And btw I never got your pattern for the glass atlas. If you want to send that with your friends, that would be fine. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 21 13:38:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:38:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts From: Melanie Dunstan To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Display Stand Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:33:55 +0800 Message-ID: <1997Jun16.203355.0> References: <<1997Jun14.75850.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services Precedence: bulk Dick Sullivan wrote: > > To all Bungi Glass experts: > My wife & I need some help designing a display stand. One > that is on a lazy susan (swivel), for hanging stain glass projects > from. 4 sides. 3ft tall.with 12" to 15" sides. Got any ideas?? > Dick Sullivan > rsully@alaska.net ------------------- There is a black plastic lazy susan available for around $10. I bought several some years ago for cake decorating (the lazy susans can hold a lot of weight - one was shown with a large TV on it) and they have lasted well, having been used for a tv/video in addition to holding up a 3' round chipboard tray for a dinner party. I make sure to put a damp cloth under and on top of the thing so it doesn't 'walk'. I got them from the Innovations mail order catalog, in UK; now innovations have started here in Australia and I've seen the same products in it from time to time; so I feel *sure that Innovations are available in USA (assuming that's where you're located...) As a suggestion for making your stand, how about buying a 'decorator' table (Kmart in Australia have these, build-it yourself from chipboard, 2 sides, a back, 2 shelves and a circular top, for around A$20) - or you could make your own- how about a glass and mirror one? - The idea being that you have 3 'sides' for display and the open shelving towards you for storage, then your lazy susan could sit on the table with the final table top on that. In order to increase the stability, you could hammer in/stick on some wooden/perspex blocks onto the decorator table top and onto the final table top which would allow the lazy susan to rest in the middle of the sandwich without walking and without the whole thing coming to pieces if somebody leans a little hard on the very top. Good luck with it Regards Melanie Dunstan in cold and wintry Perth ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 21 21:02:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:01:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: vgernet.net!cummings From: Bill Cummings To: glass-request Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: job opportunity Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:03:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun21.20348.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cummings Stained Glass Studios, Inc. Precedence: bulk Cummings Studios is looking for a student of stained glass who is a craftsperson interested in being part of a team. Email cummings@vgernet.net. Phone 413-664-6578. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 22 04:02:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 04:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: craftwolf.com!wheat From: Wheat Carr To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Display Stand Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 07:01:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun22.0110.0> References: <<1997Jun16.203355.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: WanderingWolf@craftwolf.com Precedence: bulk >>I make sure to put a damp cloth under and on top of the thing so it doesn't 'walk'. << While shopping for the "decorator Table" look in the housewears section. Or at any boat, rv, and even fabric stores now that this sort of rubbery mat that can be placed under everything from drink coasters to full size rugs to stop slippage. I have seen it in just about all the "-mart" stores in a place mat size and also on large rolls sold by the yard for lining your kitchen cabinets and even at the local stupidmarkets. Great Stuff - you can imagine how they priced it when the only palce you could get it was a marine or RV supply, but we bought it anyway Wheat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wandering Wolf Design@Craftwolf.Com Visit: http://www.craftwolf.com Savage Mill Studio 206 - Foundry St & Gorman RD - Savage MD 21063-2088 E-Mail: wheat@craftwolf.com Voice: 301-498-BEAD Fax: 301-498-0776 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 22 10:07:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:06:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: job opportunity Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:06:22 PDT Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "job opportunity" on Jun 22, 0:03, Bill Cummings writes:] > Cummings Studios is looking for a student of stained glass who is a > craftsperson interested in being part of a team. Email > cummings@vgernet.net. Phone 413-664-6578. Did you want a subscription to my email mailing list? I do not offer any jobs.... -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 22 12:40:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:40:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: vgernet.net!cummings From: Bill Cummings To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: job opportunity Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:42:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun22.114220.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cummings Stained Glass Studios, Inc. Precedence: bulk Glenna Rand wrote: > > [In the message entitled "job opportunity" on Jun 22, 0:03, Bill Cummings writes:] > > Cummings Studios is looking for a student of stained glass who is a > > craftsperson interested in being part of a team. Email > > cummings@vgernet.net. Phone 413-664-6578. > >> Glenna RandGlenna Rand: It's a new day for us to attempt to find qualified craftspeople over the net. Obviously, I did not understand the rules of the game. I don't know where to look. Are there locations for people looking for work? Albert Lewis is a friend and he informed me about your glass exchange. I read it daily. Much of what is written applies to hobbiest and so I can't help. Recently, a client of your wrote about earthquakes and stained glass. I did not seee the question-Albert did-and sent it to me. I then wrote a lengthy answer to the question. Never got a response back from the Calif. craftsperson who had the question. Please tell me the location I should be at to look for craftspeople. Thank you. Bill Cummings ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 22 13:08:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:08:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: job opportunity Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 16:15:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199706222008.QAA15059@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > tell me the location I should be at to look for craftspeople. > Thank you. > Bill Cummings Bill, There *are a lot of hobbyists who hang out here, but there are also a lot of very experienced people who offer those less experienced tips and guidelines on solving problems. Some of those who are more experienced might themselves be interested in the position you have to offer ... or they might know of someone and will pass your message along. Sorry the person with the earthquake question didn't reply ... perhaps (putting the most charitable face on it), she just hasn't read her email yet. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 22 23:25:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:23:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: netbridge.net!Balloch From: "Josh Balloch" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: stained glass chat line Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:19:55 -0700 Message-ID: <06222016902113@netbridge.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Does anyone have info Mosaic Stone Cement. If so with what do you color it? Food dye, Ritz, paint (acrylic or oil), something else? If you make something big does it take longer to dry? And what is it made of? Why are you suppose to be afraid to inhale the dust? And what will happen if you do? Thanks Shirley Balloch at Balloch@netbridge.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 04:22:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:20:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Trade Show this week Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 07:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun23.31858.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Whoever said that we should be able to identify ourselves at the show with a bungi cord had a good idea. I will wear a cord around my neck and will be looking for others so we can meet in person. Could others attending please do that also?!!!!! I would love to meet some of you guys during the seminars and show. I will arrive on wednesday and leave on friday, so W-C does not give me enough time to socialize with you guys. R.S.V.P. all showgoers. eleanor ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 05:34:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 05:33:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Trade Show this week Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:33:03 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970623083257.006e0874@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 07:18 AM 6/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >Whoever said that we should be able to identify ourselves at the show with a >bungi cord had a good idea. I will wear a cord around my neck and will be >looking for others so we can meet in person. Could others attending please >do that also?!!!!! I would love to meet some of you guys during the seminars >and show. I will arrive on wednesday and leave on friday, so W-C does not >give me enough time to socialize with you guys. >R.S.V.P. all showgoers. hehe you mean you want us to wear a bungi cord the whole time????? I guess I can stand a little embarrassment for the good of the group. I'll be in the retailer to retailer seminar on Thursday..see how many questions I get on my new necklace! Garden of Glass Joyce Moran ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 06:34:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 06:33:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "Josh Balloch" , Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Mosaic Stone Cement/safety Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:32:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun23.53249.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I purchased some of the Mosaic Stone Cement for use with the small 4 1/4"= square tile forms. I usually do not use it for the larger forms, as I fi= nd it excessively expensive. However, since it does not contain the pebbles/rocks usually found in commercial concrete mixes (such as Quick-Crete), it works very well for the smaller forms or as the top laye= r which you want smooth. As to coloring it, you can purchase coloring packets specifically for thi= s mosaic stone cement. They are available from most retail stained glass supply store, or through stained glass mail order catalogs. Just ask you= r retailer for them. They come in a wonderful variety of colors. However,= you can mix in acrylic paint into the concrete to also color it. That's what I do, and will be doing later on today. If you make something big, like say the 14" round form as opposed to the = 4 1/4" square tile, it does take longer for the concrete to set up. Do not= attempt to unmold the larger forms too soon, or it will break apart and totally ruin your work. I've used three forms, and here's the cure times= I've found successful: 1) 4 1/4" square tile - 40 minutes cure time use 100% Mosaic Stone Cement= (i.e. no concrete) 2) 8" square - 2 days cure time using Mosaic Stone Cement for the 1st lay= er and Quick-Crete for the bulk of the form 3) 14" round - 3 1/2 to 4 days cure time using Mosaic Stone Cement for th= e 1st layer and Quick-Crete for the remainder, or 100% Quick-Crete. As to what it's made of ... ask for a MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) from your supplier. By law they are required to provide you with this if= you ask for it. It will list out ingredients and all safety precautions necessary for working with the stuff. As to the dust, you don't want to = be breathing in cement dust, as it will react with the moisture in your lung= s and cause you to have cement in your lungs. Not something I would want t= o have in my lungs, for sure! Good way to get all kinds of nasty diseases = in there. So...wear a dust mask or a respirator. I wear a respirator. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. Message text written by "Shirley Balloch" >Does anyone have info Mosaic Stone Cement. If so with what do you color= it? Food dye, Ritz, paint (acrylic or oil), something else? If you make= something big does it take longer to dry? And what is it made of? Why a= re you suppose to be afraid to inhale the dust? And what will happen if you= do?< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 07:57:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 07:56:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: netbistro.com!pom From: "J. Smith" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Help... Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 07:57:53 -0700 Message-ID: Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk My first 12 sided lamp shade crashed!!! After soldering all sides successfully(push pins doing one side at a time method)in the process of turning over , 2 pieces came right out of the copper foil(boo Hoo)!;; After leaving it for a day. I'm back for the challenge of repair!... Do I have to start over and re-foil all the pieces or can you join new foil successfully over a now tinned piece . I would appreciate any comments............. Thank you in advance! Jennifer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 08:00:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 07:59:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: exmail.usma.army.mil!yj3673 From: "McLaughlin, J. COL DENTAC" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Dragons Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:59:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun23.65914.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Kathryn, I too have searched for just the "right" dragon pattern - no luck yet. A web site that may give you some "inspiration" is http://www.draconian.com "Here Be Dragons" has some interesting graphics and links that may be helpful. John > ---------- > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 08:18:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:18:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: hal-pc.org!kkelly From: "Kathryn C. Kelly" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dragons Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:15:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun23.51558.0> References: <<1997Jun23.65914.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users Precedence: bulk John, The dragons are wonderful! While I'm sending this, do you (or anyone else) know of good links for Chinese Art forms? Thank you. Kathryn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 08:28:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:28:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: tvutel.com!jandj From: "Jackie" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw & China Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:59:07 -0600 Message-ID: <199706231529.KAA00866@perham> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk It seems to me that I have read somewhere or heard that bathroom-type ceramic tiles should not be used for outdoor projects. Does anyone know about this? Jackie ---------- > From: Jerri M Roey > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Band Saw & China > Date: Friday, June 20, 1997 8:17 PM > > Well, I think my question was answered before I got a chance to > ask. Someone just gave me a bunch of tile (bathroom-type ceramic tile), > very nice, to use in my garden stones. I've only used glass so far, so > this is new to me. I wanted to know if I could use my cutter on it. I > didn't want to risk damaging it without asking first. What are tile > nippers? Are they like the mosaic cutters? I'm just trying to figure > out what I can to with this tile! > > Jerri > > > >Barbara, I have tried using my pistol grip glass cutter on tile and > >have > >had no success though I have seen people do it at the tile trade show > >... > >but they must use a particular tile or know some trick I can't fathom, > >so I > >stick to tile nippers and my saw. > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 11:55:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:54:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ou.edu!dfdavis From: Denise F Davis-1 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Reinforcing Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:54:10 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun23.85410.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Has anyone used copper wire to reinforce foiled panels? I was told that pre-tinned copper wire in a fairly large size (14 gauge) will reinforce foiled panels when it is soldered into the bead on the back of the panel. However, this method makes the solder stick out more than usual, as it is applied on top of the foil, not between the glass pieces. Please give me your opinions. I will be starting a larger panel soon, and it will need reinforcing. On another note, I recently bought a wardrobe at an estate sale and will be replacing the mirrors with leaded panels. I am really excited about this project and hope to have pictures on my future web page. Wish me luck! The design will have to be perfect, the colors just so... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 12:15:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:15:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bathroom tile outdoors Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:18:18 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970623151818.006db38c@pop.bridge.net> References: <<199706231529.KAA00866@perham>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jackie wrote: >It seems to me that I have read somewhere or heard that bathroom-type >ceramic tiles should not be used for outdoor projects. Does anyone know >about this? Well, I can't see why not. There are two types of tile ... floor and wall ... one generally shouldn't use wall tile for floors because it's not strong enough, as I understand it. And there are tiles made for wet surfaces, such as pools, but "bathroom tile" (whatever that means) should be fine outdoors since it's intended for a damp or even wet environment. Just my hunch. Cheers, M.-J. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 13:26:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:26:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:30:10 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970623163010.0069884c@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997Jun23.85410.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, I use copper reinforcement that is a few mm thick and is flat, it fits exactly between the glass pieces and so doesn't affect the solder bead.. It's worked very well for me, so far, though none of my pieces are more than a couple of years old. I won't wish you 'luck' as I tend to believe we make our own and that: "The man who is intent on making the most of his opportunities is too busy to bother about luck."( B.C. Forbes) and you sound as though you are very intent and conscious of opportunities! ;) May all you need come to Light! M.-J. At 01:54 PM 6/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone used copper wire to reinforce foiled panels? > >I was told that pre-tinned copper wire in a fairly large size (14 gauge) >will reinforce foiled panels when it is soldered into the bead on the >back of the panel. However, this method makes the solder stick out more >than usual, as it is applied on top of the foil, not between the glass >pieces. > >Please give me your opinions. I will be starting a larger panel soon, >and it will need reinforcing. > >On another note, I recently bought a wardrobe at an estate sale and will >be replacing the mirrors with leaded panels. I am really excited about >this project and hope to have pictures on my future web page. Wish me >luck! The design will have to be perfect, the colors just so... > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 14:20:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:19:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Help... Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:14:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun23.131447.0> References: <> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk J. Smith wrote: > > My first 12 sided lamp shade crashed!!! > After soldering all sides successfully(push pins doing one side at a time > method)in the process of turning over , 2 pieces came right out of the > copper foil(boo Hoo)!;; > After leaving it for a day. I'm back for the challenge of repair!... > Do I have to start over and re-foil all the pieces or can you join new foil > successfully over a now tinned piece . > I would appreciate any comments............. > Thank you in advance! > Jennifer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, if any of the foil is pulled away from the glass, it should be removed and replaced. carefully wash off the rest of the lamp, then tape the new pieces in place. then solder, tacking at first, adjust it if needed, and finish soldering it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 14:27:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dragons Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:21:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun23.132139.0> References: <<1997Jun23.65914.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk McLaughlin, J. COL DENTAC wrote: > > Kathryn, > I too have searched for just the "right" dragon pattern - no > luck yet. A web site that may give you some "inspiration" is > http://www.draconian.com "Here Be Dragons" has some interesting > graphics and links that may be helpful. > > John > > > ---------- > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i just thought of antother source (if it has'nt been mentioned already). Dancing Dragon Catalog 1-800-322-6040 they sell all kinds of dragons, one could be transfered to design. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 14:29:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:28:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bathroom tile outdoors Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:24:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun23.13243.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19970623151818.006db38c@pop.bridge.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk M.-J. Taylor wrote: > > Jackie wrote: > >It seems to me that I have read somewhere or heard that bathroom-type > >ceramic tiles should not be used for outdoor projects. Does anyone know > >about this? > > Well, I can't see why not. There are two types of tile ... floor and wall > ... one generally shouldn't use wall tile for floors because it's not > strong enough, as I understand it. And there are tiles made for wet > surfaces, such as pools, but "bathroom tile" (whatever that means) should > be fine outdoors since it's intended for a damp or even wet environment. > > Just my hunch. > > Cheers, > > M.-J. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass unless outdoor tile is denser.. i guess that could make sense, even though the bathroom tile is water proof (the glazed surface); i don't know how freeze proof they are. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 16:02:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: netbridge.net!Balloch From: "Josh Balloch" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Dragons Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:56:58 -0700 Message-ID: <23004172600445@netbridge.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: M. Savad > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Dragons > Date: Monday, June 23, 1997 2:21 PM > > McLaughlin, J. COL DENTAC wrote: > > > > Kathryn, > > I too have searched for just the "right" dragon pattern - no > > luck yet. A web site that may give you some "inspiration" is > > http://www.draconian.com "Here Be Dragons" has some interesting > > graphics and links that may be helpful. > > > > John > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > i just thought of antother source (if it has'nt been mentioned already). > > Dancing Dragon Catalog > 1-800-322-6040 > > > they sell all kinds of dragons, one could be transfered to design. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: > - New Instructional Guides Added!!! > - The Creative Process > - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers > - Picking Out Glass in the Store > - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory > - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory > - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass If you want a real simple pattern; Crystal Catchers by Linda Bjornson a Valee Studios Publication, has a nice one on pg. 39. Glassy Moments Book One, Dreamscapes by Karen Ichino has a free-standing one.Aurora Window Designs byAmy Flynn has one all curled up in a circle. 200 Design Ideas for Stained Glass by Mark & Susan Walton has one flying rather in a seahorse kind of look. Glassmith Studios (my favorite of all pattern books) has one sitting on his circled tail, in their A Break in Time book. If you are a hobbiest and have a few months Expressions in Glass by Sherri Pierce has a very menacing Chinese looking Dragon. and lastly. Carolyn Kyle"s Glass Patterns in Color ll has a coming down the mountain looking, full front door, itching pattern. Good luck and have fun Shirley Balloch ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 17:05:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:04:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: cyberramp.net!byronw From: byronw@cyberramp.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Reinforcing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:06:08 +0000 Message-ID: <199706240004.TAA25103@mailhost.cyberramp.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > From: Denise F Davis-1 > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Reinforcing > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:54:10 -0500 > Reply-to: glass@bungi.com > Has anyone used copper wire to reinforce foiled panels? > > I was told that pre-tinned copper wire in a fairly large size (14 gauge) > will reinforce foiled panels when it is soldered into the bead on the > back of the panel. However, this method makes the solder stick out more > than usual, as it is applied on top of the foil, not between the glass > pieces. > > Please give me your opinions. I will be starting a larger panel soon, > and it will need reinforcing. I used 12 guage wire that I tinned in the middle of a long panel I did.. Worked fine but like you said there is a hump in the back where it is... I'm gonna try some of the copper strips that go between the pieces on the next one... They even have copper clad steel that can be used if ya really need strength.. Byron... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 17:06:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:05:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bathroom tile outdoors Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:10:15 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970623201015.006ae920@pop.bridge.net> References: <<3.0.1.32.19970623151818.006db38c@pop.bridge.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jackie wrote: bathroom-type >> >ceramic tiles should not be used for outdoor projects. Does anyone know >> >about this? and I replied: >> Well, I can't see why not ... there are tiles made for wet >> surfaces, such as pools, but "bathroom tile" (whatever that means) should >> be fine outdoors since it's intended for a damp or even wet environment. And Mike Savad commented: >unless outdoor tile is denser.. i guess that could make sense, even >though the bathroom tile is water proof (the glazed surface); i don't >know how freeze proof they are. Which reminded me that *I* live in the Florida Keys where it doesn't freeze ... so my suppositions are, perhaps, suspect for wintry spots! M.-J. > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 17:19:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:18:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:17:17 EDT Message-ID: <1997Jun24.01717.0> References: <<1997Jun23.85410.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Pre tinned wire will help,but my luck has been with woven wire around the bottom and a well soldered vase cap on top..Good Luck; Don On Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:54:10 -0500 Denise F Davis-1 writes: >Has anyone used copper wire to reinforce foiled panels? > >I was told that pre-tinned copper wire in a fairly large size (14 >gauge) >will reinforce foiled panels when it is soldered into the bead on the >back of the panel. However, this method makes the solder stick out >more >than usual, as it is applied on top of the foil, not between the glass >pieces. > >Please give me your opinions. I will be starting a larger panel soon, >and it will need reinforcing. > >On another note, I recently bought a wardrobe at an estate sale and >will >be replacing the mirrors with leaded panels. I am really excited >about >this project and hope to have pictures on my future web page. Wish me >luck! The design will have to be perfect, the colors just so... > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 17:23:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:23:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 20:26:07 -0400 Message-ID: <199706240023.UAA15113@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Denise wrote: >I was told that pre-tinned copper wire in a fairly large size (14 gauge) >will reinforce foiled panels when it is soldered into the bead on the >back of the panel. However, this method makes the solder stick out more >than usual, as it is applied on top of the foil, not between the glass >pieces. The only time I have used wire to reinforce is for the bottom of lamps. When I need to reinforce a large panel, I use a copper or brass reinforcing strip, made specifically for this purpose, that sits down between the pieces and you can solder over it without leaving a trace. I think it is called "restrip." >On another note, I recently bought a wardrobe at an estate sale and will >be replacing the mirrors with leaded panels. I am really excited about >this project and hope to have pictures on my future web page. Wish me >luck! The design will have to be perfect, the colors just so... I wish you lots of luck, and have fun doing it too! Suzanne Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 19:05:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:04:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: crl.com!slally From: Sean Lally To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 14:11:12 -0700 Message-ID: <199706232107.AA22544@mail.crl.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Has anyone used copper wire to reinforce foiled panels? I've used it on the bottom, inside edge of some lamps I've made. It does make the solder stick out more, but it works pretty well for strengthening it seems. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 23 22:56:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:55:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: montana.com!chip3 From: Phil Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: stained glass chat line Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:55:50 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun23.165550.0> References: <<06222016902113@netbridge.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Chip3 Video Precedence: bulk Hi Josh, I recently went to my local hardware store and purchased a couple ounces of the pigments they use to make custom color paint. I got several colors of pigments and add the pigment I want to the mortar that goes next to the glass. It's water-based and so mixes well with the mortar (or grout). It has no effect on drying time and because it's liquid, there is no dust to contend with. T. in Montana Josh Balloch wrote: > > Hi, > Does anyone have info Mosaic Stone Cement. If so with what do you color > it? Food dye, Ritz, paint (acrylic or oil), something else? If you make > something big does it take longer to dry? And what is it made of? Why are > you suppose to be afraid to inhale the dust? And what will happen if you > do? > Thanks Shirley Balloch at Balloch@netbridge.net > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 02:10:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 02:09:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: pobox.alaska.net!wildewk From: Dick Sullivan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Display Stand Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:07:51 -0600 Message-ID: <1997Jun23.19751.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: WILDEWORKS Precedence: bulk Thanks GANG For all the help with the display stand. I guess I will Just look in the catalogs and see if I can buy one. Anyone Know some good catalogs Dick S rsully@alaskannet ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 05:16:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 05:15:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Denise F Davis-1 , Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Reinforcing Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:15:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun24.4154.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have used both copper wire and re-strip. For framed panels (i.e. foile= d panels which will live inside either a zinc or wooden finishing frame) I prefer to use the re-strip rather than the copper wire. This way the re-strip is totally hidden within the panel, since re-strip is inserted between foiled pieces, and then soldered as you would normally solder. I use copper wire around the outside edges of pieces which are not framed= , and also on lamp shades. Most of these pieces are free-form designs whic= h cannot be framed, yet require additional strength. Putting copper wire around the outside edge gives a very nice finishing bead to the work, as well as providing the strength. You can also colder copper wire on the back of the piece, but you are right in that it does stick out a bit. Bu= t it's well worth it for strengthening the piece. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. Message text written by Denise F Davis-1 >Has anyone used copper wire to reinforce foiled panels? = I was told that pre-tinned copper wire in a fairly large size (14 gauge) will reinforce foiled panels when it is soldered into the bead on the back of the panel. However, this method makes the solder stick out more than usual, as it is applied on top of the foil, not between the glass pieces.< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 05:45:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 05:44:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bathroom tile outdoors Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:40:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun24.4409.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19970623201015.006ae920@pop.bridge.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk M.-J. Taylor wrote: > > Jackie wrote: > bathroom-type > >> >ceramic tiles should not be used for outdoor projects. Does anyone > know >> >about this? > > and I replied: > >> Well, I can't see why not ... there are tiles made for wet > >> surfaces, such as pools, but "bathroom tile" (whatever that means) > should >> be fine outdoors since it's intended for a damp or even wet > environment. > > And Mike Savad commented: > >unless outdoor tile is denser.. i guess that could make sense, even > >though the bathroom tile is water proof (the glazed surface); i don't > >know how freeze proof they are. > > Which reminded me that *I* live in the Florida Keys where it doesn't freeze > ... so my suppositions are, perhaps, suspect for wintry spots! > > M.-J. > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the other important thing to remember is to make sure all the joints and edges are waterproof. and to seal the surface below the tile (or use marine plywood. florida is kind of a moist place to be it...but warm... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 05:49:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 05:49:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:44:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun24.44410.0> References: <<199706232107.AA22544@mail.crl.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sean Lally wrote: > > >Has anyone used copper wire to reinforce foiled panels? > > I've used it on the bottom, inside edge of some lamps I've made. It does > make the solder stick out more, but it works pretty well for > strengthening it seems. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the wire also does this, it holds the the glas together and makes them all work as a team. if one piece gives out, it will spread the force to the other pieces. and if there is a break, the pieces can dangle from the wire, holding it's shape better. if used in a lamp setting. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 06:37:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 06:36:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Building Glass Lamp Shade on Old Frame? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:37:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun24.5376.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I have a floor lamp that I want to replace the shade on. I intend to = make a multi-paneled shade for it the same size and shape as the cloth = shade. It's about 10" tall and 14" in dia. at the bottom. Can I suspend = the shade from the old top circular frame that has three radial wire = rods going to the center where it sits on the finial? I know it would be = heavy. Has anyone done this? If so, did you imbed wire in the seams and = loop them over the circular frame to help hold it? Thanks, all this = discussion on reinforcing sparked this.=20 Linda Campbell My opinions are not necessarily=20 those of Metro Machine Corporation=20 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 07:03:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 07:03:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: StndGlass1@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Source Bunginians Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun24.6316.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Just wanted to say to those of you visiting Source, I would love to meet you as well! Be sure to stop by booth #810 during your travels and say hello! It's always more fun to have a face with the name! Jenna Meredith Meredith Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 07:23:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 07:22:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr From: "NC Scouter" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: Re: Circle and/or Octagon bevels Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:15:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun24.31549.0> References: <<1997May25.141115.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. Precedence: bulk <> Doug Scale wrote: > > I'm working on a pattern from the book "New Dimensions" by Terra and > would like to find a supplier of either the 1 1/2" octagon or circle > bevels for the designs shown on the cover. Have checked several > catalogues i have here and none of them show these special bevels. Do > they have to be special ordered and if so from what company.<> Doug, I had only just notied that there seems to have been no replies to your request as yet... I don't know if you are familiar with them since they are a "wholesale ONLY" distributor, but The Glass Emporium located in North Wales, Pennsylvania carries EXACTLY the bevels you needed to locate. Glass Emporium lists them on page 28-section N of their newest wholesale catalog. The circle bevel sets are 6 pcs., and come in 8 different diameters ranging (in 2" increments) from 10"-24"o.d. X 1 1/2". The octagon bevel sets are 8 pcs., come in 3 sizes which range (in 2" increments) from 17 1/4"-21 1/4" X 1 1/2", and are designed so that when framed with 1/2" U-channel zinc they will fit very nicely into stock-sized McNeil's octagonal oak frames. Hope that this helps you out, and if you need more just let me know! Valerie Tydings Phelps Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. Wanchese NC -- ________ "But we have this treasure | | "Blessed are the censors in jars of clay..." ( ) for they shall ( ) inhibit the earth!" 2cor4.7niv (________) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 08:28:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:27:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Display Stand Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 11:23:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun24.72353.0> References: <<1997Jun23.19751.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Dick Sullivan wrote: > > Thanks GANG > For all the help with the display stand. I guess I will Just > look in the catalogs and see if I can buy one. Here's a couple of quick ideas, Dick, first look in the yellow pages for Store Display equipment, and then if there is no one local, call Rio-Grande and get their Display Catalog-1-800-637-8303 Lee-in a hurry-sorry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 09:34:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:33:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Building Glass Lamp Shade on Old Frame? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:32:45 -0700 Message-ID: <199706241632.JAA27245@norm.island.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I have a floor lamp that I want to replace the shade on. I intend to = >make a multi-paneled shade for it the same size and shape as the cloth = >shade. It's about 10" tall and 14" in dia. at the bottom. Can I suspend = >the shade from the old top circular frame that has three radial wire = >rods going to the center where it sits on the finial? I know it would be = >heavy. Has anyone done this? If so, did you imbed wire in the seams and = >loop them over the circular frame to help hold it? Thanks, all this = >discussion on reinforcing sparked this.=20 Well Linda, I'm not totally clear what you're describing, however I would suspect that any wire frame that was used for a cloth shade probably wouldn't be strong enough for the weight of a glass shade. Having refurbished lamps before, my tendency (sight unseen so I don't really know what you've got there) would be to throw the entire old shade away. Start with a new lamp spider from a glass store (or a vase cap) for the new shade and build it intact as you would any other shade. I would also add a harp to the lamp itself to support the new shade...not sure from your description whether there is already a harp or whether it was an old fashioned clip on shade. Incidentally, when I refurbish interesting old lamp frames for resale with new shades I always strip out all the old guts and completely rewire with all new electrical parts...I think it's only fair to the purchaser to do this. Good luck Carol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 10:56:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:54:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun24.9549.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I too have used 12 guage electrical wire that comes in a plastic sheath. I strip the plastic off and use the copper wire. It has worked out fine for me. I also find it is very cheap to purchase @25 feet for 2.00. I also string it thru the zinc came I use to frame my work for reinforcement and it has worked very well (string thru in one piece. It takes a little bit of knack but it is worth it.). Hope this has helped you some. Bubstah ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 10:56:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:55:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Building Glass Lamp Shade on Old Frame? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:55:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun24.95555.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Carol,=20 thanks for the reply. I can see from your post why I wasn't making = myself clear. The circular thing I was talking about was the spider but = it just occurred to me that it has a top and bottom with vertical = stiffening in between. You are probably right about the weight being too = much for a frame (spider) that was intended for cloth. It already has a = harp and since the lamp is for me and I bought it new 5 years ago I'll = keep the wiring that's in it. Thanks for the input. I always helps to = bounce thinks of bungians. Linda ---------- >I have a floor lamp that I want to replace the shade on. I intend to = =3D >make a multi-paneled shade for it the same size and shape as the cloth = =3D >shade. It's about 10" tall and 14" in dia. at the bottom. Can I suspend = =3D >the shade from the old top circular frame that has three radial wire = =3D >rods going to the center where it sits on the finial? I know it would = be =3D >heavy. Has anyone done this? If so, did you imbed wire in the seams and = =3D >loop them over the circular frame to help hold it? Thanks, all this =3D >discussion on reinforcing sparked this.=3D20 Well Linda, I'm not totally clear what you're describing, however I = would suspect that any wire frame that was used for a cloth shade probably wouldn't be strong enough for the weight of a glass shade. Having refurbished lamps before, my tendency (sight unseen so I don't really = know what you've got there) would be to throw the entire old shade away. = Start with a new lamp spider from a glass store (or a vase cap) for the new = shade and build it intact as you would any other shade. =20 I would also add a harp to the lamp itself to support the new = shade...not sure from your description whether there is already a harp or whether it = was an old fashioned clip on shade. =20 Incidentally, when I refurbish interesting old lamp frames for resale = with new shades I always strip out all the old guts and completely rewire = with all new electrical parts...I think it's only fair to the purchaser to do = this. Good luck Carol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 12:50:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: netbridge.net!Balloch From: "Josh Balloch" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: dragons Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:45:24 -0700 Message-ID: <12473245700149@netbridge.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I found one more pattern. Very elaborate, appropriately called "Spike". It's in Image is Everything featuring 6 artists. John R. Smith did this one on pg. 39. >From the beautiful Oregon (Or-e-gun) Coast Shirley ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 14:48:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:46:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 17:49:28 -0400 Message-ID: <199706242146.RAA04943@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Bubstah wrote: >I too have used 12 guage electrical wire that comes in a plastic sheath. I >strip the plastic off and use the copper wire. It has worked out fine for >me. I also find it is very cheap to purchase @25 feet for 2.00. I also >string it thru the zinc came I use to frame my work for reinforcement and it >has worked very well (string thru in one piece. >It takes a little bit of knack but it is worth it.). Would you explain what you mean by stringing it thru the zinc came? This is new to me and I would like to try it. Suzanne Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 17:31:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:30:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!DGlswrks From: DGlswrks@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Circle and/or Octagon bevels Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun24.163038.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Doug, I just got on bungi so didn't see your first letter. I have called Stained Glass Images direct, I think the number should be in the Terra books and he has been very helpful in both telling you where you can get the bevels as well as mailing them to you if you can't find a source. Give him a try. Dione ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 17:33:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!DGlswrks From: DGlswrks@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Circle and/or Octagon bevels Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun24.163245.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk OOOPS! The he in my response is Gene Mayo from Stained Glass Images. He is always a great help although this week I'm sure he's in Baltimore. Dione ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 18:37:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:36:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: hal-pc.org!kkelly From: "Kathryn C. Kelly" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: dragons & Guild chapter Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:36:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun24.153631.0> References: <<12473245700149@netbridge.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users Precedence: bulk Thank you everyone who supplied me with Dragon sources. I'm like a kid in a candy store now! Also, for all Stained Glass people in the Greater Houston area, Gerry Phibbs, Chairman of the International Guild of Glass Artists Inc., has contacted me about forming a Guild chapter in this part of the country. If anyone is interested, I can be contacted through email at kkelly@hal-pc.org or at 281-474-2439. Hope to hear from lots of folks. Kathryn C. Kelly ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 19:44:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:44:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Glass Blobs Question Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:40:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun24.184022.0> References: <<1997Jun24.153631.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Question for fusers or slumpers- I need a few-10-15 pieces of glass globs exactly to match one of the glass colors in a jewelry box I am doing-since I can't find this color in the commercial ones-how about cutting 1 inch squares of the glass sheet-in the color I need. Then heat them in my burn out kiln, or with a torch, till they glob into a ball?? When I melt metal (gold, silver, brass) it forms into a ball when molten, so glass should too. Has anyone made color match glass globs this way??? Any instructions from someone who does this?? Thanks- Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 19:56:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:55:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Now it's cemented... Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun24.124954.0> References: <<1997Jun18.163657.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk You asked about leaving solder seams without patina v. using a patina. Actually the patina is much more forgiving when solder seams are not quite as smooth as one would wish. Also consider the patina process takes more time. If your seams are smooth and you want to leave them "silver," it is okay. The antique look is also nice. Just depends on your taste...and you are the artist. IMHO. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 20:22:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:21:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: dns.ida.net!dstang From: Debby Wylie To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: glass instruction Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:17:35 -0600 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970624212203.4f9f5e4e@mail.ida.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all. I've been a lurker for a while. Now I have been asked to teach a community education class for beginning stained glass. [copper-foil only] Since I have only been doing this craft for 3 years, I'm a relative beginner myself. However, I have attended a few classes-both good and bad-and they pleaded with me so nicely, I accepted. Now I could use some tips on making my class successful. There will be a maximum of 6 students, and it will be for 6 weeks, 2 hours a night so I figure I should only do a very small project to get them started. Community education does not have any supplies at all to help me. They are going to charge a little more for the class so I can purchase an extra soldering iron that will start their supplies. So essentially, I have to use all my own equipment. Can anyone give me any tips that might help me? It would be greatly appreciated. The classes don't start until September. Thanks! Debby ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 20:22:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:22:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: byronw@cyberramp.net Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun24.131651.0> References: <<199706240004.TAA25103@mailhost.cyberramp.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Everyone. You have been talking about copper wire and copper strips between panels in panel lamps. IMHO you really don't need to reinforce the panels on the sides. If you reinforce the panels, this should be done across the bottom. The top will be reinforced with the vase cap. 14 or 16 gauge copper wire across the bottom will provide strength and allow you to build a nice rounded bead of solder on the bottom of your panels. Of course, this assumes the panels fit together nicely at 45 degree angles. PJ from CA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jun 24 21:27:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:26:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun24.202634.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk The zinc came has a u channel but below this channel where the glass sits is another hollow space - This is where I thread the 12 guage wire and solder the joints as I go along until I have threaded it thru all four sides and am back to where I began. I then solder this corner which finishes the frame around my project. Having this core of copper wire inside my finished frame keeps the project from distorting from improper hanging - from sagging - it also gives it a support that I would otherwise not be able to provide and an "inner strength". Hope I was able to make it a little more understandable. Bubstah ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 07:13:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Blobs Question Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:04:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.6437.0> References: <<1997Jun24.184022.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk leestat7 wrote: > > Question for fusers or slumpers- I need a few-10-15 pieces of glass > globs exactly to match one of the glass colors in a jewelry box I am > doing-since I can't find this color in the commercial ones-how about > cutting 1 inch squares of the glass sheet-in the color I need. Then > heat them in my burn out kiln, or with a torch, till they glob into a > ball?? When I melt metal (gold, silver, brass) it forms into a ball > when molten, so glass should too. Has anyone made color match glass > globs this way??? Any instructions from someone who does this?? > > Thanks- > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well first off it should be done in a kiln, becuase a torch can discolor the glass and when it cools off it can shock the glass. the glass does round off, but it still tends to keep it's shape. so i would make it circular, and about a 1/4" bigger than you want. the glass tends to pull itself in, you might want to experiment using 2 layers of glass. and the other thing is, you may want to experiment because some glass changes color when heated. like clear orange turns solid. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 07:20:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:18:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass instruction Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:13:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.6131.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19970624212203.4f9f5e4e@mail.ida.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Debby Wylie wrote: > > Hi all. I've been a lurker for a while. Now I have been asked to teach a > community education class for beginning stained glass. [copper-foil only] > Since I have only been doing this craft for 3 years, I'm a relative beginner > myself. However, I have attended a few classes-both good and bad-and they > pleaded with me so nicely, I accepted. Now I could use some tips on making > my class successful. There will be a maximum of 6 students, and it will be > for 6 weeks, 2 hours a night so I figure I should only do a very small > project to get them started. Community education does not have any supplies > at all to help me. They are going to charge a little more for the class so > I can purchase an extra soldering iron that will start their supplies. So > essentially, I have to use all my own equipment. > > Can anyone give me any tips that might help me? It would be greatly > appreciated. The classes don't start until September. > > Thanks! > > Debby > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, alot of schools that i know of never give supplies, usally it's the teacher responabilty. they bring in the stuff needed, and the students buy from them (usally at the cost you paid for it). or during the first class you can explain the basics, give them a list of what's needed and let them buy there own supplies. but usally you would need to keep a small supply of glass, and basic supplies for them to buy. and far as projects, most people have in mind what they want to make, though some are a bit more ambitous than others and may panic once they find out hard it can be. and other's may take the class, and be better than you, i'd just let them do there own thing. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 07:25:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:22:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:16:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.61616.0> References: <<1997Jun24.131651.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Peggy W. Johnsen wrote: > > Hi Everyone. You have been talking about copper wire and copper strips > between panels in panel lamps. IMHO you really don't need to reinforce > the panels on the sides. If you reinforce the panels, this should be done > across the bottom. The top will be reinforced with the vase cap. 14 or > 16 gauge copper wire across the bottom will provide strength and allow you > to build a nice rounded bead of solder on the bottom of your panels. > Of course, this assumes the panels fit together nicely at 45 degree > angles. PJ from CA > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah the only time you put wire across the sides (inner), is after you solder the cap on. you put wire around the top edge, and into the cap. this will give the cap much more strength. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 07:49:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:47:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: glass instruction Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:49:41 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970625094941.006a3108@busprod.com> References: <<1.5.4.16.19970624212203.4f9f5e4e@mail.ida.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Hi all. I've been a lurker for a while. Now I have been asked to teach a >community education class for beginning stained glass. [copper-foil only]... >...Community education does not have any supplies >at all to help me. They are going to charge a little more for the class so >I can purchase an extra soldering iron that will start their supplies. So >essentially, I have to use all my own equipment. Debby...first of all you may want to scope out the bungi archives...we had this same thread pass thru here a few months ago and there was some interesting input. Second of all, you may want to follow my idea on teaching classes...I send a list of the absolute essential tools that will be needed to the student about 2 weeks before the first class...I NEVER, ever let new students use the same tools I use to make my living! Our local shop always gave a 20% discount to folks coming in from our classes and if it was a first time hobbyist, they weren't encouraged to buy top of the line supplies or glass. I would provide a grinder for all of the students to use. Glass would also be provided for a "first class" project...usually a small suncatcher. Hope some of these ideas help...LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 08:47:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:46:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:42:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.74210.0> References: <<1997Jun24.202634.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Bingo!!@!! Thank You Bubstah!! I am just framing a panel in 1/2 inch brass came, and I wanted to cut and miter the corners. This is just the technique for reinforcing the whole panel-so it can hang from the top or the sides. I know just what you mean now, will use heavy gage copper wire continuous around the whole panel. thanks again- Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > The zinc came has a u channel but below this channel where the glass sits is > another hollow space - This is where I thread the 12 gauge wire and solder > the joints as I go along until I have threaded it thru all four sides and am > back to where I began. I then solder this corner which finishes the frame > around my project. Having this core of copper wire inside my finished frame > keeps the project from distorting from improper hanging - from sagging - it > also gives it a support that I would otherwise not be able to provide and an > "inner strength". > Hope I was able to make it a little more understandable. > Bubstah ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 08:57:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:57:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mfi.com!shaly From: "Suzanne Haley" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re[2]: glass instruction Date: Wed, 25 Jun 97 08:37:58 PST Message-ID: <9705258672.AA867253851@mfi.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Debby: I would suggest your have a similar pattern for the first piece. Twelve hours of instruction is pretty thin. Spectrum Glass (http:www.spectrumglass.com) has a great dictionery of terms, etc. Under dictionery, open one word and all will open. Then you can print the entire list out. Great for reference and they can read for homework. If you have scrape glass for the students to choose from all the better. Maybe your local retailer will help them out with a student discount. Also, if you are really tight with a retailer....she/he might lend you a sample box for the first night in order to show the different glass types. Good luck, hope you have a lesson plan! Suzanne ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: glass instruction Author: glass@bungi.com at Internet Date: 6/25/97 7:29 AM Debby Wylie wrote: > > Hi all. I've been a lurker for a while. Now I have been asked to teach a > community education class for beginning stained glass. [copper-foil only] > Since I have only been doing this craft for 3 years, I'm a relative beginner > myself. However, I have attended a few classes-both good and bad-and they > pleaded with me so nicely, I accepted. Now I could use some tips on making > my class successful. There will be a maximum of 6 students, and it will be > for 6 weeks, 2 hours a night so I figure I should only do a very small > project to get them started. Community education does not have any supplies > at all to help me. They are going to charge a little more for the class so > I can purchase an extra soldering iron that will start their supplies. So > essentially, I have to use all my own equipment. > > Can anyone give me any tips that might help me? It would be greatly > appreciated. The classes don't start until September. > > Thanks! > > Debby > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, alot of schools that i know of never give supplies, usally it's the teacher responabilty. they bring in the stuff needed, and the students buy from them (usally at the cost you paid for it). or during the first class you can explain the basics, give them a list of what's needed and let them buy there own supplies. but usally you would need to keep a small supply of glass, and basic supplies for them to buy. and far as projects, most people have in mind what they want to make, though some are a bit more ambitous than others and may panic once they find out hard it can be. and other's may take the class, and be better than you, i'd just let them do there own thing. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 09:15:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:14:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Circle and/or Octagon bevels Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:11:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.81136.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:glass@bungi.com >I = don't know if you are familiar with them since they are a "wholesale ONLY= " distributor, but = The Glass Emporium located in North Wales, Pennsylvania carries EXACTLY t= he bevels you = needed to locate. Glass Emporium lists them on page 28-section N of thei= r newest wholesale = catalog.< Yes, but trying to get qualified as a wholesale purchaser with them is li= ke trying to wash a cat. Take it from me, who LIVES in North Wales, PA, and= who is only 9 blocks away from them. Not easy. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 09:15:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:14:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Blobs Question Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:07:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.8715.0> References: <<1997Jun25.6437.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Thanks Mike, This is what I needed to know. I can let the kiln cool off to room temp, rather than taking them out of the kiln. That should provide a slow annealing. Do lampworkers, who work with open flame use a 'flux' to keep the glass from oxidizing?? I do when I melt metal in a crucible for casting. You melt to a 'puddle' then a pinch of flux (borax), quick stir with a carbon rod/pull pin and cast. This does take a bit of coordination, as you have to keep the torch on the metal the whole time. 4 hands are very handy. ;-) What kind of kiln shelf do you use?? I see in the catalogs a 'kiln wash' but don't know what that is, or how to use it. Are there any lamp workers on the list? Thanks again, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > well first off it should be done in a kiln, becuase a torch can discolor > the glass and when it cools off it can shock the glass. the glass does > round off, but it still tends to keep it's shape. so i would make it > circular, and about a 1/4" bigger than you want. the glass tends to pull > itself in, you might want to experiment using 2 layers of glass. > > and the other thing is, you may want to experiment because some glass > changes color when heated. like clear orange turns solid. > > ---Mike Savad > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 10:10:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:09:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: glass instruction Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:07:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.9743.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by Debby Wylie >Can anyone give me any tips that might help me? It would be greatly appreciated.< Good class size - 6. How many grinders do you have access to? Get as ma= ny as you can so you don't have students waiting in line to grind. If you d= o have limited grinder use, make a rule up so that each student can only grind two pieces at a time, so you have a rotation going on and everybody= gets to use the equipment equally. Make sure your students sign a release form, releasing you and the community school from any liability should they injure themselves. I hav= e a combination "The Process of Making a Stained Glass Panel" and injury release form which I make the students sign during the 1st 30 minutes of the 1st class. If you want, I can send it to you. Make a list of all the things you think you will need in order to run a class outside of your studio. I have such a list I use (I have run s.g. classes at my church and at an art gallery). Again, if you want I can po= st it so you don't have to re-invent the wheel. This list helps you avoid forgetting something when you're operating out of a different location. Let the students choose the type of music to listen to while working. Th= is brings the class closer together and music is a stress reliever when they're learning a new skill. I always take my boom box and a wide selection of CDs from which they can choose. You may not have a proper surface upon which to solder. I take a large cork board with me for this purpose. Have the students bring their own safety glasses and shop aprons so you don't have to. Work out a deal with a local stained glass supplier, to get a price break= for bulk purchases for the class. I did this with my local supplier. Th= e students had to purchase a base set of supplies such as glass cutter, breaking pliers, solder, flux, flux brush, etc., plus the glass and frami= ng for the project. = I would suggest having a selection of patterns of the same general beginn= er level ready from which the students may choose their project. I usually offer six different patterns - all a small flat panel, but of quite different styles. They should involve straight line and some curved pieces, but not too many pieces. This way the student learns all the basics without getting frustrated by too many pieces, or too small pieces= , or trying to do a 3-D project too soon. Anyway, that's just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Good luck. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 10:31:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:31:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: Bungi , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: glass instruction Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:31:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.93115.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie, Your advise and attention to detail is very good. I've never had a class - self taught and wish I had gone to one of your classes. Linda Good class size - 6. How many grinders do you have access to? Get as ma= ny as you can so you don't have students waiting in line to grind. If you d= o have limited grinder use, make a rule up so that each student can only grind two pieces at a time, so you have a rotation going on and everybody= gets to use the equipment equally. Make sure your students sign a release form, releasing you and the community school from any liability should they injure themselves. I hav= e a combination "The Process of Making a Stained Glass Panel" and injury release form which I make the students sign during the 1st 30 minutes of the 1st class. If you want, I can send it to you. Make a list of all the things you think you will need in order to run a class outside of your studio. I have such a list I use (I have run s.g. classes at my church and at an art gallery). Again, if you want I can po= st it so you don't have to re-invent the wheel. This list helps you avoid forgetting something when you're operating out of a different location. Let the students choose the type of music to listen to while working. Th= is brings the class closer together and music is a stress reliever when they're learning a new skill. I always take my boom box and a wide selection of CDs from which they can choose. You may not have a proper surface upon which to solder. I take a large cork board with me for this purpose. Have the students bring their own safety glasses and shop aprons so you don't have to. Work out a deal with a local stained glass supplier, to get a price break= for bulk purchases for the class. I did this with my local supplier. Th= e students had to purchase a base set of supplies such as glass cutter, breaking pliers, solder, flux, flux brush, etc., plus the glass and frami= ng for the project. = I would suggest having a selection of patterns of the same general beginn= er level ready from which the students may choose their project. I usually offer six different patterns - all a small flat panel, but of quite different styles. They should involve straight line and some curved pieces, but not too many pieces. This way the student learns all the basics without getting frustrated by too many pieces, or too small pieces= , or trying to do a 3-D project too soon. Anyway, that's just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Good luck. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 10:54:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:53:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="8b4a83af-ed82-11d0-a100-00805feaacd2" Subject: Robert Oddy's lecture on plating techniques Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:53:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.9534.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This is a MIME-encapsulated message --8b4a83af-ed82-11d0-a100-00805feaacd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline The attached text file contains information from the May 31st lecture/demonstration by Mr. Robert Oddy, given at the Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass showroom in Allentown, PA. Special thanks to Mr. Oddy and Mr. Charles Warner for this information. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. --8b4a83af-ed82-11d0-a100-00805feaacd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="C:\AGE\IGGA\SUMMER97\Oddy.txt" Robert Oddy: Stained Glass Plating Techniques Lecture at Warner-Crivellar= o Stained Glass=0D =0D On May 31, 1997, a group of us bungians were privileged to meet Robert (= Bob) Oddy, the stained glass artist whose wonderful plating techniques ha= ve caused quite a stir on the glass@bungi.com INTERNET site. If you have= n't yet checked out Mr. Oddy's work, it may be found on his web page at h= ttp://www.servtech.com/public/rnoddy/.=0D =0D What started out as a Philadelphia-area bungi group Saturday shopping tr= ip up to Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass warehouse in Allentown, PA, turn= ed into quite an educational trip for all. Thanks to Hilary Bobker (bung= ian wizard) who organized the trip, and got the ball rolling. But specia= l thanks go to Charles and Marianne Warner, owners of Warner-Crivellaro, = who managed with only a half week's notice, to contact Robert Oddy and ar= range for him to give the lecture. Warner-Crivellaro graciously paid for= Mr. Oddy's plane ticket and overnight stay, just so that we would have t= he benefit of hearing this artist present his works and techniques.=0D =0D A few of us carpooled up to Allentown. When we arrived at 10:00, severa= l other bungians were already present. More and more people showed up th= roughout the day. In total, there were 34 people present for the lecture= =2E An of those, twelve were bungians! Mariann Warner and her staff pro= vided us all with a beautiful spread of coffee, tea, pink lemonade, iced = tea, danish, bagels & spreads, home-baked coffee cakes and fresh fruit. = Warner-Crivellaro hosts Saturday stained glass techniques lectures/demons= trations throughout the year, but this one surpassed everyone's expectati= ons. Warner's regular Saturday demonstrator, Angelo Grello, started off = the lecture with an introduction of the special guest of honor, Robert Od= dy. Throughout the day, Angelo and Mr. Oddy did demonstrations and lectu= res about glass plating techniques. And Charles Warner hosted a guided t= our through the Warner-Crivellaro showrooms, warehouses, and manufacturin= g facilities (they manufacturer cast lead and pewter figurines and filigr= ees for stained glass work).=0D =0D Robert Oddy is a self-taught stained glass artist who began his trip int= o glass work in 1983. He does copper foil technique almost exclusively a= nd works out of his home, getting client referrals through architects and= designers. All of his works are original designs, many of which feature= stained glass in combination with other materials such as wood, tree bar= k, rocks and geodes. The first stained glass piece he ever constructed w= as a kaleidoscope. He does all his design work by hand, sketching everyt= hing after researching the subject matter.=0D =0D Mr. Oddy brought his photograph album, which shows many more installatio= ns than are listed on his web site. But, the highlight of the day was th= e fact that he had been able to obtain and bring with him one of the pane= ls featured on his web site: the one titled "Serpent" which features the = full moon and boa constrictor in a bamboo forest. This piece also featur= es wood and tree bark fitted into the panel.=0D =0D Integrating real tree bark into a stained glass panel involves treating = the wood to minimize shrinkage and to stop deterioration of the material.= To do this, the bark is saturated in a white carpenter's resin glue (e.= g. Elmer's), let dry, and then the process repeated two or three times. = The bark is used as part of the framing structure. To join the bark piec= e, duplicate the bark's form in wood for the back part of the framing, no= tching out a channel for the glass. Connect the pieces of wood using dow= els or screws. The glass can then be mounted in it as in a normal groove= d frame.=0D =0D The most intriguing part of the lecture was about plating, also called o= verlay. Plating involves more than one layer of stained glass being sold= ered on top each other to give various effects. It has been practiced si= nce the beginning of stained glass work. Louis Comfort Tiffany did a lot= of plating. Stained glass plating looks great when viewed from the fron= t, but pretty awful when viewed from the back. This is because most plat= ing occurs on the back surface of the panel.=0D =0D Why do plating? There are several reasons:=0D =0D It makes solder lines or lead lines less distinct. It gives a sense of d= istance to the piece. To get this effect of distance the layer closest t= o the viewer should be a dense, thick opal glass. Dense glass diffuses t= he light passing through the layers and gives the diffused look. Many Ti= ffany panels feature this effect.=0D To add shading to a piece. You can only do this with relatively dense gl= ass, else the line will be too pronounced.=0D To modify glass colors and textures. By plating glass together you are n= ot restricted by the color or texture selection available at the retail s= tore.=0D To superimpose images atop each other. A good example of this is Mr. Odd= y's "Central New York" panel on his web site. To superimpose images, do = the background first, then the plating layer is superimposed on top.=0D To create sculptural effects without leadlines, such as the moon in the "= Serpent" panel.=0D A related technique, which Bob Oddy called 'ragtime', is to set pieces of= glass at varying levels. This may be just one layer, or can be combined= with plating. A 3-D effect is created by having some pieces casting sha= dows onto other parts of the panel. You can also vary the angle of the p= lated glass on the top layers to make them more rough in appearance, such= as the tree in the "Serpent" panel.=0D =0D There are different plating techniques which can be used to achieve these= effects:=0D =0D When designing a plated panel, draw the base design first, then decide up= on what segment of the design to plate. Trace these on onion skin and la= y them on top of the cartoon, to get some idea of what the plating effect= s will be.=0D Build the multi-plate section as a separate panel, and then solder it in = place atop another panel.=0D Build a base layer and then plate layers directly to it.=0D Mr. Oddy uses a bandsaw but not more than necessary, as the blades are ex= pensive. He mostly uses regular hand tools for his works. He did use a = bandsaw on "Serpent" to cut out some of the bamboo leaf insert points int= o the joint between the moon and the clear plate glass layers.=0D Use very thin copper foil so the foil on the plated glass doesn't show up= through the top layers of glass. Mr. Oddy uses various thicknesses of c= opper foil, and sometimes even reduces the copper foil line with a razor = blade to get the thinnest line possible for certain effects (see "Owl" on= his web page).=0D Mr. Oddy uses regular water-soluble soldering flux and avoids using paste= flux since it is more difficult to clean. You must thoroughly wash flux= off the panel as each layer is built.=0D Do not solder a high-profile finished solder bead on the area of the pane= l which will be plated. This is so the solder doesn't raise the plane of= the glass.=0D If applying patina to the project, you must patina the plated layer prior= to soldering it onto the base.=0D You can do plating using a clear glue, but that's a different technique n= ot covered in this lecture.=0D =0D Some problems involved with plating:=0D =0D You must be able to cut accurately. Some layers have to fit on top of ea= ch other very accurately.=0D There can be a problem of moisture buildup between layers. Thoroughly cl= ean and dry (with a hair dryer) each layer as it is built. Venting betwe= en layers allows moisture to escape. To build vent areas, don't complete= ly solder all areas. Put a bit of Vaseline on the top and bottom most po= ints of the plated piece. Then solder. The solder will not stick to the= Vaseline and will leave small vent holes for moisture to escape.=0D Flux can 'spit' between layers when soldering. If this happens, you must= unsolder the piece, clean it, and try again.=0D Multi-layered plating makes it nearly impossible to lay the panel flat on= a table. You must support the various layers of glass from underneath t= o equally distribute the weight of the panel and keep it level during sol= dering.=0D With plating in areas (as opposed to completely plating the entire panel)= , the weight of the panel is not carried directly through the vertical pl= ane of the glass. You must plan out weight distribution throughout the p= anel when plating. If the shapes are more complex (i.e. more curves and = smaller pieces), it is more likely to have strength. Long horizontal joi= ns are most at risk of bowing. Add curves to the design for strength. U= se re-strip inside solder lines. If you find the bottom portion of the p= anel is a single layer while the upper portions of the panel are multi-la= yer, you have a serious weight distribution problem. To solve this, plat= e clear pane glass to the bottom section to give it the necessary strengt= h to support the weight of the plated glass above it.=0D Glazing into a frame is more difficult with plated glass. Carve away par= ts of the wooden frame as needed in order to fit the plated sections into= the frame.=0D =0D A lot of plated stained glass pieces do not have a set pattern due to th= e complexity of the design. Most plated panels have the plated sections = designed while the panel is under construction. Light boxes or a strong = natural light source such as a good window are crucial for deciding parti= cular texture/color combinations used in plating. To try your first plat= ing experiment, come up with a base design and then try out additional la= yers. Or you can plate onto an existing panel. Reduce the solder on the= back down to a flat solder line. Then cut the plating pieces and solder= them onto the back of the panel.=0D =0D Other questions about how Mr. Oddy achieved some of the effects shown on= panels on his web site were explained at this lecture. "Owl" (features = an owl flying through the air with wings outstretched) achieves the 'wing= beat' effect by plating clear glass pieces to the back to the panel. Ea= ch layer uses smaller and smaller widths of copper foil, giving the illus= ion that the wing beats are fading out into the background. "Bamboo" was= created in 1983 and is Mr. Oddy's first plated piece. "Serpent" involve= d constructing the snake first, using children's picture books as backgro= und information in order to get the snake's anatomy correct. Pay particu= lar attention to perspective when constructing naturalistic pieces, such = as are shown on Mr. Oddy's web site.=0D =0D If you want more information, please visit Robert Oddy's web site, or co= ntact Charles Warner at Warner-Crivellaro, 1855 Weaversville Road, Allent= own, PA 18103 phone 1-800-523-4242 or 610-264-1100. Mr. Oddy will be in = the Warner-Crivellaro booth at the ASGA Convention in Baltimore, (booths = 325 & 424) and will have several panels on display.=0D =0D --8b4a83af-ed82-11d0-a100-00805feaacd2-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 11:05:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:04:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Globs Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:04:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.10418.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Lee! Your post about making your own globs brings to mind my idea to make my o= wn rondels, turtlebacks, etc. I want to cast my own designs and have wonder= ed whether powders would = work in the molds (?) Anybody have any experience working with them? = Would love some feedback. Thanks. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 11:39:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:38:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass beads Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:43:13 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970625144313.0072a37c@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997Jun24.184022.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi, fellow Bungis, I am reminded by the current thread on glass blobs, that I have a friend who has asked me several times about on-line resources for the making of glass beads. Are there any bead makers on list? Does anyone have any URLS or other information I should pass along to her? She lives in Miami and has looked into a glass _blowing_ class at UM, but it's not what she's looking for, obviously. TIA for your help. Cheers, M.-J. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 13:32:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mfi.com!shaly From: "Suzanne Haley" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re[3]: glass instruction Date: Wed, 25 Jun 97 13:21:01 PST Message-ID: <9705258672.AA867270430@mfi.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Debby...one more website is http://www.warner-criv.com They have an excellent "About Stained Glass", "Tools & Supplies", "Glass Cutting", and on and on. This website belongs to Warner-Crivellaro in Pennsyvlania. Suzanne Haley ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re[2]: glass instruction Author: Suzanne Haley at MFI_SF Date: 6/25/97 8:37 AM Debby: I would suggest your have a similar pattern for the first piece. Twelve hours of instruction is pretty thin. Spectrum Glass (http:www.spectrumglass.com) has a great dictionery of terms, etc. Under dictionery, open one word and all will open. Then you can print the entire list out. Great for reference and they can read for homework. If you have scrape glass for the students to choose from all the better. Maybe your local retailer will help them out with a student discount. Also, if you are really tight with a retailer....she/he might lend you a sample box for the first night in order to show the different glass types. Good luck, hope you have a lesson plan! Suzanne ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: glass instruction Author: glass@bungi.com at Internet Date: 6/25/97 7:29 AM Debby Wylie wrote: > > Hi all. I've been a lurker for a while. Now I have been asked to teach a > community education class for beginning stained glass. [copper-foil only] > Since I have only been doing this craft for 3 years, I'm a relative beginner > myself. However, I have attended a few classes-both good and bad-and they > pleaded with me so nicely, I accepted. Now I could use some tips on making > my class successful. There will be a maximum of 6 students, and it will be > for 6 weeks, 2 hours a night so I figure I should only do a very small > project to get them started. Community education does not have any supplies > at all to help me. They are going to charge a little more for the class so > I can purchase an extra soldering iron that will start their supplies. So > essentially, I have to use all my own equipment. > > Can anyone give me any tips that might help me? It would be greatly > appreciated. The classes don't start until September. > > Thanks! > > Debby > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, alot of schools that i know of never give supplies, usally it's the teacher responabilty. they bring in the stuff needed, and the students buy from them (usally at the cost you paid for it). or during the first class you can explain the basics, give them a list of what's needed and let them buy there own supplies. but usally you would need to keep a small supply of glass, and basic supplies for them to buy. and far as projects, most people have in mind what they want to make, though some are a bit more ambitous than others and may panic once they find out hard it can be. and other's may take the class, and be better than you, i'd just let them do there own thing. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 14:23:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Blobs Question Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:17:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.131733.0> References: <<1997Jun25.8715.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk leestat7 wrote: > > Thanks Mike, > This is what I needed to know. I can let the kiln cool off to room > temp, rather than taking them out of the kiln. That should provide a > slow annealing. Do lampworkers, who work with open flame use a 'flux' > to keep the glass from oxidizing?? I do when I melt metal in a crucible > for casting. You melt to a 'puddle' then a pinch of flux (borax), quick > stir with a carbon rod/pull pin and cast. This does take a bit of > coordination, as you have to keep the torch on the metal the whole time. > 4 hands are very handy. ;-) > > What kind of kiln shelf do you use?? I see in the catalogs a 'kiln > wash' but don't know what that is, or how to use it. > Are there any lamp workers on the list? > Thanks again, > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > > > well first off it should be done in a kiln, becuase a torch can discolor > > the glass and when it cools off it can shock the glass. the glass does > > round off, but it still tends to keep it's shape. so i would make it > > circular, and about a 1/4" bigger than you want. the glass tends to pull > > itself in, you might want to experiment using 2 layers of glass. > > > > and the other thing is, you may want to experiment because some glass > > changes color when heated. like clear orange turns solid. > > > > ---Mike Savad > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i don't do alot of kiln work, i only have a quickfire 6. i use a normal shelf, with a fiber paper thing so the glass does'nt stick. i do know glass has a different viscosity than metal, very slow; there might be a flux, but proably for really hot glass. but that's about all i know...the other thing you can try is to melt down marbles, they should give a tall appearence, and they'll all be the same size. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 15:33:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:32:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass beads Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:40:26 +0000 Message-ID: <199706252232.SAA15965@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Are there any bead makers on list? Does anyone have any URLS or other > information I should pass along to her? She lives in Miami and has looked > into a glass _blowing_ class at UM, but it's not what she's looking for, > obviously. You'll find a lot of them by jumping from the Guild's home page (address below) via the Glass Links button there. Or you can go directly to http://www.hotglass.com to find them. When you get there, press Control-F and type in "bead" (without the quotes). Every time you press "Enter" thereafter, you'll jump to the next bead reference. Albert International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 15:47:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun25.14478.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk So pleased to have been of help. I am new to the bungi group and have learned from you as well. Thank YOU. Bubstah ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 15:57:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:57:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass beads Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:53:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.145342.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19970625144313.0072a37c@pop.bridge.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi M. J., Here is another link to various hot glass- http://www.hotglass.com/links.html I posted my blobs question to a couple on the list there. If I can flame work these pieces of glass it will be faster, and may not heat up the house so much. I may go 'borrow' the maintenance offices Oxy/actyline torch setup-I can use it down there. If that doesn't work, will go get shelf liner and try the kiln. The main thing is to use the same glass to make the blobs, as I'm using for the sides of the jewelry box. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations M.-J. Taylor wrote: > > Hi, fellow Bungis, > > I am reminded by the current thread on glass blobs, that I have a friend > who has asked me several times about on-line resources for the making of > glass beads. > > Are there any bead makers on list? Does anyone have any URLs or other > information I should pass along to her? She lives in Miami and has looked > into a glass _blowing_ class at UM, but it's not what she's looking for, > obviously. > > TIA for your help. > > Cheers, > > M.-J. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 18:57:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:56:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ricochet.net!wiebe From: Mary & Jerry Wiebe To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Unsubscribe Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:02:39 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.18239.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: M & J Consulting Precedence: bulk Please take me off of your mailing list. I enjoyed it. Thank you for your time. My e mail is wiebe@ricochet.net. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 19:44:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:43:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!AlexG2 From: AlexG2@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun25.18437.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Where can you find flat copper reinforcement thats only a few mm thick? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jun 25 21:38:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:36:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass instruction Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun25.20364.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I too would appreciate the list of materials, rules and release forms. I plan on having classes also in my area of South Jersey. Thank you in advance Bubstah@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 01:29:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 01:27:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr From: "NC Scouter" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: Re: Circle and/or Octagon bevels Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 04:14:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.21142.0> References: <<1997Jun25.81136.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. Precedence: bulk Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote: > > Message text written by INTERNET:glass@bungi.com >> I don't know if you are familiar with them since they are a "wholesale ONLY >> distributor, but The Glass Emporium located in North Wales, Pennsylvania >> carries EXACTLY the bevels you needed to locate. Glass Emporium lists them >> on page 28-section N of their newest wholesale catalog.< >> > Yes, but trying to get qualified as a wholesale purchaser with them is like > trying to wash a cat. Take it from me, who LIVES in North Wales, PA, and > who is only 9 blocks away from them. Not easy. > Christie A. Wood > Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. > ---- I'm sorry you feel that way... I thought that it was easier than anyone else that I have dealt with recently since I was actually able to get pre-approved via telephone. The only requirements that I had to meet were: have a "business telephone with business listing with a copy of yellow page ad or copy contract for same as proof", a "resale tax certificate", and a "copy of a voided business check". I received a paper application via 'snail-mail' within 3 days after I spoke with them and.... VOILA!! I'm an officially duhhhhh-approved studio. The nicest thing about them is that the minimum order is $50 for ANYTHING, EXCEPT sheet glass (which is a $300 minimum.) This $50 min. includes the bevels that Doug is needing too! ;-) Everyone else that I've ever applied to had to have documentation of almost everything but my birth, (and I'm still not sure they won't ask for THAT later on either!!) Put it THIS way, Glass Emporium's re- quirements did NOT need extra postage like all the others I've had to mail back and I'm grateful for the friendly, easy manner with which I was treated by them on the phone. (NO, I DON'T work for them-- subversively or otherwise...but I think that they should give me distinct discount on that ring-saw I've been drooling over since January in exchange for this free plug!!) Maybe you should try again, or perhaps I just live in a REALLY rural place where the yellow pages are cheap cause the phone book's less than an inch thin/thick (depending upon your POV!) ;-D Always, Valerie Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd Wanchese NC -- ________ "But we have this treasure | | "Blessed are the censors in jars of clay..." ( ) for they shall ( ) inhibit the earth!" 2cor4.7niv (________) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 02:12:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 02:10:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzanne albright To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Thu, 26 Jun 97 05:13:11 -0400 Message-ID: <199706260910.FAA18196@uz.comcat.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I believe it's called "restrip". I have found it at my retail store, and it is listed in Warner-Crivellaro's and Delphi's catalogs. Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 02:27:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 02:25:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: wt.com.au!rdeint From: "Rexort International Pty Ltd" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Globs Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:03:20 +0800 Message-ID: <199706260920.RAA10592@sage.wt.com.au> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Dani You can use molds to create shape of rondels. I am not sure what you mean with "powders"? The effect of slumped or fused rondels is quite different to press moulded or handspun rondels. Harald ---------------------- HiGlass Manufacturers of Coloured Sheet Glass and Fused Glass Products Perth, Australia email: rdeint@wt.com.au URL: http://www.wt.com.au/~rdeint/higlass.htm ---- From: Michael J. Greer To: All Date: Thursday, 26 June 1997 2:29 Subject: Globs >Hi Lee! > >Your post about making your own globs brings to mind my idea to make my o= >wn >rondels, turtlebacks, etc. I want to cast my own designs and have wonder= >ed >whether powders would = > >work in the molds (?) Anybody have any experience working with them? = > >Would love some feedback. Thanks. > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios > >http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ = > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 02:27:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 02:25:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: wt.com.au!rdeint From: "Rexort International Pty Ltd" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glass Blobs Question Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:58:46 +0800 Message-ID: <199706260920.RAA10595@sage.wt.com.au> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Dear Lee At HiGlass we do fusing every day, usually fairly large pieces. Let me try to give some help: Soft glass sticks to many materials incuding steel and kiln shelves. Therefore you need to coat your shelf with kiln wash. You might try to use pottery kiln wash available from a local pottery or pottery supply, but it is not as good as a special coating for glass fusing. Kiln wash comes as a powder. You mix it with water. Apply one layer with a brush, let it dry, apply another layer at a right angle to first layer. A third layer is optional. Let it dry properly. Alternatively you might try ceramic fibre materials. Use fibre paper on you kiln shelf. For small projects no preparation of fibre paper required. Put glass direct on fibre. Clean fibre residue from finished piece with water. Depending on material used as fusing surface you get different textures on your glass. Contraction / expansion of glass very much depends on glass, temperature cycle and thickness. Glass less than 6mm (1/4") thick tends to contract, more than 6mm expands. This effect is due to surface tension of glass, very similiar to forming a drop of water. If you use two layers of 3mm glass, size remains approx. the same (assuming you align them perfect). As the edges round off overall dimensions tend to expand a little bit. Enjoy your project. If you need any further advise feel free to email myself or join my fusing class this weekend. Harald ---------------------- HiGlass Manufacturers of Coloured Sheet Glass and Fused Glass Products Perth, Australia email: rdeint@wt.com.au URL: http://www.wt.com.au/~rdeint/higlass.htm ---- From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, 26 June 1997 0:33 Subject: Re: Glass Blobs Question >Thanks Mike, >This is what I needed to know. I can let the kiln cool off to room >temp, rather than taking them out of the kiln. That should provide a >slow annealing. Do lampworkers, who work with open flame use a 'flux' >to keep the glass from oxidizing?? I do when I melt metal in a crucible >for casting. You melt to a 'puddle' then a pinch of flux (borax), quick >stir with a carbon rod/pull pin and cast. This does take a bit of >coordination, as you have to keep the torch on the metal the whole time. >4 hands are very handy. ;-) > >What kind of kiln shelf do you use?? I see in the catalogs a 'kiln >wash' but don't know what that is, or how to use it. >Are there any lamp workers on the list? >Thanks again, > >Lee Boe >Rain-Boe's Creations > >> well first off it should be done in a kiln, becuase a torch can discolor >> the glass and when it cools off it can shock the glass. the glass does >> round off, but it still tends to keep it's shape. so i would make it >> circular, and about a 1/4" bigger than you want. the glass tends to pull >> itself in, you might want to experiment using 2 layers of glass. >> >> and the other thing is, you may want to experiment because some glass >> changes color when heated. like clear orange turns solid. >> >> ---Mike Savad >> >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 02:51:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 02:50:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!studioone1 From: studioone1@juno.com (Dee l Plott) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass instruction Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:34:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.43423.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19970624212203.4f9f5e4e@mail.ida.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Debbie, Years ago I taught Adult education. One night a week, two hours. I derived a list of supplies that the students needed to purchase. They could buy either from a local retail or I made the kits available( ususally a good bit less than retail but a bit more than more wholesale cost) This way everyone had their own supplies. I usually gave them an assortment of patterns to choose from that they could complete in six weeks. Once the class became so popular the school even purchased extra grinders Really saved wear and tear on mine. Email if you are interested in more details or student list. Studioone1@Juno.com Hope this helps, dee ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 05:23:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 05:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:AlexG2@aol.com" , "[unknown]" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:20:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun26.42058.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:AlexG2@aol.com >Where can you find flat copper reinforcement thats only a few mm thick?<= Just about any stained glass retail store or mail order catalog sells thi= s. It's called re-strip. I purchase the re-strip manufactured by Ventura, and it's great. It comes in 25 foot coils. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 05:23:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 05:21:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: "INTERNET:Bubstah@aol.com" , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="57b9d864-ee1c-11d0-afca-00805fbe60fa" Subject: Re: glass instruction Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:21:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun26.4215.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk This is a MIME-encapsulated message --57b9d864-ee1c-11d0-afca-00805fbe60fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message text written by INTERNET:Bubstah@aol.com >I too would appreciate the list of materials, rules and release forms. = I plan on having classes also in my area of South Jersey. Thank you in advance Bubstah@aol.com< OK, here's my stuff. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. --57b9d864-ee1c-11d0-afca-00805fbe60fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="C:\AGE\FORMS\release.txt" Beginning Copper Foil Stained Glass Class=0D =0D Christie A. Wood; instructor=0D Art Glass Ensembles, Inc., 254 S. 9th Street, North Wales, PA 19454=0D (215) 699-6332 email: 104344.622@compuserve.com=0D =0D Manufacturing a stained glass piece of art using the copper foil (Tiffany= ) method involves the following steps:=0D =0D 1. Design 6. Copper foil wrapping=0D 2. Glass selection 7. Panel assembly=0D 3. Cut & paste 8. Soldering=0D 4. Glass cutting 9. Patina (optional)=0D 5. Grinding 10. Framing=0D =0D The process begins with selecting or designing the pattern (called a cart= oon). There are many stained glass pattern books available for purchase. = But if you want to design your own, this is done on regular paper or via= a computer program, sometimes to scale and sometimes smaller which is th= en enlarged to scale.=0D =0D Stained glass colors and textures are selected and this information is ad= ded to the cartoon. A photocopy is made of the cartoon, since the origin= al is kept as the working template while the copy is cut up into separate= pieces. Pattern cutting is done with special shears which leave the exa= ct amount of room between each piece to allow for the copper foil later o= n. Each paper piece is glued onto the appropriate stained glass sheet, a= nd the glass is cut into a rough shape following the paper template.=0D =0D Each piece of glass is ground to the exact shape and dimension, the paper= soaked off the glass, and the piece laid atop the original paper templat= e.=0D =0D After all pieces have been cut and ground, every edge of each piece is wr= apped in copper foil. Copper foil allows for more intricate and smaller = pieces of stained glass to be assembled together, and is also safer than = working with lead.=0D =0D The stained glass is assembled on a cork board, using push pins to hold t= he edges of each piece in place. If the artwork has straight edges, spec= ial framing edges are pinned to hold the outside edges of the panel to sq= uare.=0D =0D The stained glass is then soldered both front and back with reinforcing b= rass or copper wire inserted for larger pieces. After soldering, the pie= ce is cleaned with warm water and detergent and dried. A chemical patina= may be applied to the solder lines to color the solder. The normal colo= r of solder is silver. Patinas are available in copper, antique brass, v= erdi gris, and black. If patina is used, the panel must be cleaned to re= move the chemical.=0D =0D The finished piece is then sealed with a polishing compound, and (optiona= lly) mounted into a zinc or wooden frame. Installation hardware is added= to the frame, and the artist signs the completed work.=0D =0CWorking with Hazardous Materials=0D =0BStained glass work involves using hazardous materials. These may incl= ude:=0D Glass dust particles created during grinding=0D Glass shards created during cutting=0D Flux=0D Fumes created during soldering=0D Patina chemicals (optional)=0D =0D Manufacturer's Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) are available for hazar= dous materials. To minimize exposure to these hazardous substances, you = must follow these rules:=0D =0D - No food or drink allowed in the manufacturing area=0D - Cuts will be cleaned, treated & bandaged immediately=0D - Eye protection must be worn during grinding=0D - Closed shoes (no sandals) must be worn at all times=0D - Filter masks must be worn during soldering if a ventilation fan is not = present=0D - Students must wash equipment, stained glass artwork, and hands after so= ldering=0D - Students must wash equipment, stained glass artwork, and hands after pa= tinaing.=0D =0D Release Form=0D =0D I understand the hazards of working with stained glass and related manufa= cturing chemicals, and take responsibility for myself. Should I sustain = any injuries during the class I will not sue Christie A. Wood, Art Glass = Ensembles, Inc., Denine Wish, or Mermaid Art Studios.=0D =0D _________________________________________=0D =0D _________________________________________=0D =0D _________________________________________=0D =0D Witness _________________________________________=0D =0D --57b9d864-ee1c-11d0-afca-00805fbe60fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="C:\AGE\CLASSES\classpre.txt" Stained Glass Class Prep=0D =0D Class Materials:=0D =0D aprons, cartoons, pencils, stained glass, pattern shears, scissors, glue = sticks, scrap paper, Morton system boards, glass cutter, running pliers,= gronzing pliers, regular pliers, needle-nose pliers, wire cutting pliers= , safety glasses, grinders, copper foil, fid, wallpaper roller, Exacto kn= ife, solder, flux brush, cutting oil, gel flux, scrub brush, dishwashing = detergent, hanging hardware, chain, boxes for storing projects, soldering= iron, soldering iron stand, paste flux, patinas, glass finishing wax, po= lishing cloths=0D =0D Business Materials:=0D =0D business cards, gift certificates, stained glass terms & legal release ha= ndouts, class registrations, publicity reprints, photo album, design book= s=0D =0D Furniture & hardware:=0D =0D tables & chairs, tea towels, broom (for clean up), trash cans, small brus= h & pan (for clean up)=0D =0D --57b9d864-ee1c-11d0-afca-00805fbe60fa-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 05:53:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 05:52:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: craftwolf.com!wheat From: Wheat Carr To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass beads Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:51:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun26.15153.0> References: <<199706252232.SAA15965@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: WanderingWolfDesign@Craftwolf.Com Precedence: bulk Hi Al, Here are two you might want to add to your resource list. They are both fairly new, but nice discussions have started. Wheat > > I am reminded by the current thread on glass blobs, that I have a friend who has asked me several times about on-line resources for the making of glass beads. Because of my personal interest and because the glass bead makers felt lost on the the lists for bead workers (those who use beads vs those who make them). This is the sub info for both our bead related lists. ------ beadmaker For those who make glass beads - and because the making of beads, with discussion of torches, kilns and chemistry is really quite different than how those beads are USED after they get to the hands fo the beadworker or jewelry maker, we are please to host: mailto:list-request@craftwolf.com In the body of the message, for individual format: join beadmaker In the body fo the message for once daily digest: join beadmaker-digest Note: all lower case, remember UNIX is case sensitive Wheat Carr owner, mailto:wheat@craftwolf.com ------------------------------------------ Bead-List For those interested in the use of beads - especially them darling little ones delicas & Seeds & dust (size 22/o & up) Come share how you use your beads, in jewerly, on/off loom or come to learn - we welcome beaders of all levels. mailto:list-request@craftwolf.com In the body of the message, for individual format: join Bead-List In the body of the message for once daily digest: join Bead-List-digest NOTE: Please be sure to use the exact message show, UNIX is case sensitive = Wheat Carr owner, mailto:wheat@craftwolf.com ----------------------------------------- There is no charge from Craftwolf.Com or Wandering Wolf Design to participate on these lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wandering Wolf Design@Craftwolf.Com Visit: http://www.craftwolf.com Savage Mill Studio 206 - Foundry St & Gorman RD - Savage MD 21063-2088 E-Mail: wheat@craftwolf.com Voice: 301-498-BEAD Fax: 301-498-0776 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 07:54:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:53:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: re: Oddy's work Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:55:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970626095517.006b16d0@busprod.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thanks so much for the report you put together regarding Mr. Oddy'd work and the time you had at W-C. I appreciate the effort...it was well written and very easy to understand... thanks again, LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 07:58:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:58:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass Blobs Question Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun26.05229.0> References: <<1997Jun25.131733.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk To: Leestat7 You asked if lampworkers who work with open flame use a 'flux' to keep the glass from oxidizing? In fusing glass it is sometimes necessary to use a special spray on the glass to keep it from devitrifying or causing a milky looking film to form on the glass. PJ from CA. On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, M. Savad wrote: > leestat7 wrote: > > > > Thanks Mike, > > This is what I needed to know. I can let the kiln cool off to room > > temp, rather than taking them out of the kiln. That should provide a > > slow annealing. Do lampworkers, who work with open flame use a 'flux' > > to keep the glass from oxidizing?? I do when I melt metal in a crucible > > for casting. You melt to a 'puddle' then a pinch of flux (borax), quick > > stir with a carbon rod/pull pin and cast. This does take a bit of > > coordination, as you have to keep the torch on the metal the whole time. > > 4 hands are very handy. ;-) > > > > What kind of kiln shelf do you use?? I see in the catalogs a 'kiln > > wash' but don't know what that is, or how to use it. > > Are there any lamp workers on the list? > > Thanks again, > > > > Lee Boe > > Rain-Boe's Creations > > > > > well first off it should be done in a kiln, becuase a torch can discolor > > > the glass and when it cools off it can shock the glass. the glass does > > > round off, but it still tends to keep it's shape. so i would make it > > > circular, and about a 1/4" bigger than you want. the glass tends to pull > > > itself in, you might want to experiment using 2 layers of glass. > > > > > > and the other thing is, you may want to experiment because some glass > > > changes color when heated. like clear orange turns solid. > > > > > > ---Mike Savad > > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > i don't do alot of kiln work, i only have a quickfire 6. i use a normal > shelf, with a fiber paper thing so the glass does'nt stick. > > i do know glass has a different viscosity than metal, very slow; there > might be a flux, but proably for really hot glass. but that's about all > i know...the other thing you can try is to melt down marbles, they > should give a tall appearence, and they'll all be the same size. > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: > - New Instructional Guides Added!!! > - The Creative Process > - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers > - Picking Out Glass in the Store > - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory > - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory > - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 08:15:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:14:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Robert Oddy's lecture on plating techniques Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:14:20 -0700 Message-ID: <199706261514.IAA12623@norm.island.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie thanks so much for all the work you did putting those notes together. It must have taken a long time and they seem to be quite detailed. I've saved them to go over in detail since I'm very interested in his techniques. I'm also largely self-taught and put all sorts of unusual things into my windows and panels...to me glass is the basic medium to be expanded and intermingled with other media (sorry to all the traditionalists out there). Thanks again for making this available to all of us who couldn't be part of the 34. Cheers Carol Synergy Glass & Creative ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 09:43:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:41:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: boffo.com!barb From: "Barbara A. Roman" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: cutting rippled stipple Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:44:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun26.84439.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Boffo Games, Inc. Precedence: bulk Hello bungians! I began cutting a dragonfly fan-lamp the other night, and met with some difficulties. I'm using Youghagainy (sp?) stipple glass. The regular stipple I'm using for the wings seemed to cut fine. However, the rippled stipple (that's fun to say! ;-) was a pain in the hand! And once or twice my cutter slipped sideways on the thicker sections of glass. Now, I've seen lamps with pieces that are very thick in parts, and it adds a wonderful dimensionality to the work. Are there some tips you experienced crafter could give me? My troubles include: 1. The cutter sliding sideways. Am I gripping too hard? should I cut from a different area to avoid the thicker sections? Did this possibly ruin my cutter? (It sure did mess up my score line.) 2. Difficult breakage. I tried to maintain even pressure, and used the Morton breaking "dot" to run the score, but sometimes it still felt like the glass was just too thick. 3. Grozing the rippled glass was next to impossible. I try not to rely on the grinder to do my cutting for me, but in some spots the glass was like a rock. Thanks for any advice you have. I _love_ the look of this glass and really want to become better at working with it. -barb barb@boffo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 10:34:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen From: David Cogen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Blobs Question Date: Thu, 26 Jun 97 13:31:00 -0400 Message-ID: <9706261331.AA12456@LL.MIT.EDU> References: <<1997Jun25.8715.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > slow annealing. Do lampworkers, who work with open flame use a 'flux' > to keep the glass from oxidizing?? I do when I melt metal in a crucible > for casting. You melt to a 'puddle' then a pinch of flux (borax), quick In lampworking, we have the opposite problem. The danger is not oxidizing, but "unoxidizing", or reducing. The unburned propane or other fuel in the flame can suck the oxygen out of the metal salts which form most of the pigments, turning them back into ugly metal. This happens very easily when using a fuel-only torch such as the Hot Head. This is corrected by ensuring that the flame contains excess oxygen relative to propane. A Fuel-Oxygen torch is very desirable. So, in a sense, perhaps the oxygen plays the role of the flux. Also, you may have mentioned acetylene? I have heard that acetylene is very difficult to use with glass, because it is too hot. Propane is the most common fuel; methane and MAPP Gas are also used. -- David Cogen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 14:28:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:27:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass beads Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:34:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199706262126.RAA11533@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Here are two you might want to add to your resource list. They are both > fairly new, but nice discussions have started. Hi, yourself, Wheat! Nice to hear from you again. Thanks for the pointers; now I'll ask another: Just got a fax from a Florida member of the Guild who's going to be in the NYC area around the 4th of July and wanted to know if we could point her and her husband at some glass bead galleries and stores. Any ideas? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 16:28:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:27:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: cutting rippled stipple Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:11:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun26.151154.0> References: <<1997Jun26.84439.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Barbara A. Roman wrote: > > Hello bungians! > > I began cutting a dragonfly fan-lamp the other night, and met with some > difficulties. I'm using Youghagainy (sp?) stipple glass. The regular > stipple I'm using for the wings seemed to cut fine. However, the > rippled stipple (that's fun to say! ;-) was a pain in the hand! And > once or twice my cutter slipped sideways on the thicker sections of > glass. Now, I've seen lamps with pieces that are very thick in parts, > and it adds a wonderful dimensionality to the work. Are there some tips > you experienced crafter could give me? My troubles include: > 1. The cutter sliding sideways. Am I gripping too hard? should I cut > from a different area to avoid the thicker sections? Did this possibly > ruin my cutter? (It sure did mess up my score line.) > 2. Difficult breakage. I tried to maintain even pressure, and used the > Morton breaking "dot" to run the score, but sometimes it still felt like > the glass was just too thick. > 3. Grozing the rippled glass was next to impossible. I try not to rely > on the grinder to do my cutting for me, but in some spots the glass was > like a rock. > > Thanks for any advice you have. I _love_ the look of this glass and > really want to become better at working with it. > > -barb > barb@boffo.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i always guide my cutter with my left hand pointer finger. this allows me to have extra pressure where needed. it also helps to prevent slipping. often i'll use my whole other hand. my pointer would be on the head, while my thumb acts like a moving pivot. i never found it very easy to groze any kind of youg. glass. it's often easier to just grind it off, maybe even using a speed bit. or, of course, if you have a bandsaw, that would make everything easier. i never tried the morton dot, i still like breaking by hand, if necessary cut small sections of glass off at a time. and lastly, make sure you cutting on the smooth side, which i'm assuming you know. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 16:39:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:38:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: swin.edu.au!aking From: aking@swin.edu.au To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Robert Oddy's lecture Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:40:42 +0000 Message-ID: <199706262338.AA27661@lucy.cc.swin.edu.au> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Christie, Thank you very much for the time and effort you took to write and forward to us the report on Robert's lecture. Very well written Christie, and being all the way over in here in Aust I really appreciate the time and effort you took to convey his techniques to us. Thanks again Andrea ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 22:02:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:01:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: dns.ida.net!dstang From: Debby Wylie To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: glass instruction Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:56:23 -0600 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970626230053.45f70e74@mail.ida.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 09:49 AM 6/25/97 -0500, you wrote: Thanks for your input. I'll check the bungi archives. That's a good idea to try to get a list of the students before the class, if possible. However, the closest shop for stained glass supplies is 60 miles away, so I had planned on working something out with the owner to get some supplies to bring to the second class for the students to buy. I know he'll work with me. There is another small shop, with a very small selection, that might give students a 10% discount...but again, they are 60 miles away for the students. Only 30 miles away for me. I was planning on only having a very small project for them to work on just to give them the basics. Thanks again for the help. >Debby...first of all you may want to scope out the bungi archives...we had >this same thread pass thru here a few months ago and there was some >interesting input. Second of all, you may want to follow my idea on >teaching classes...I send a list of the absolute essential tools that will >be needed to the student about 2 weeks before the first class...I NEVER, >ever let new students use the same tools I use to make my living! Our local >shop always gave a 20% discount to folks coming in from our classes and if >it was a first time hobbyist, they weren't encouraged to buy top of the >line supplies or glass. I would provide a grinder for all of the students >to use. Glass would also be provided for a "first class" project...usually >a small suncatcher. Hope some of these ideas help...LJ > **************************************************************** >LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com >ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design >"Unique Stained Glass Creations" > > >OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 22:07:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:06:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: dns.ida.net!dstang From: Debby Wylie To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Re[2]: glass instruction Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:02:31 -0600 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970626230701.45f776f8@mail.ida.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 08:37 AM 6/25/97 PST, you wrote: Suzanne, Yea I know that 12 hours is pretty thin. There is the option to continue the class for an extra fee for the students, but I plan to do a very simple project. No, I don't have a lesson plan. This is my first time at this process. I have some time to work one up. What do I need to have in it? Just a basic outline for each class session? I have been mentally working one up. Thanks for the Spectrum Glass lead, I'll check them out! I've already contacted the local retailer I'm "tight" with and he's going to sit down with me and try to help me get set up some. He's taught a few classes himself. Debby > Debby: > I would suggest your have a similar pattern for the first piece. > Twelve hours of instruction is pretty thin. > > Spectrum Glass (http:www.spectrumglass.com) has a great dictionery of > terms, etc. Under dictionery, open one word and all will open. Then > you can print the entire list out. Great for reference and they can > read for homework. > > If you have scrape glass for the students to choose from all the > better. Maybe your local retailer will help them out with a student > discount. Also, if you are really tight with a retailer....she/he > might lend you a sample box for the first night in order to show the > different glass types. > > Good luck, hope you have a lesson plan! > > Suzanne > > > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Re: glass instruction >Author: glass@bungi.com at Internet >Date: 6/25/97 7:29 AM > > >Debby Wylie wrote: >> >> Hi all. I've been a lurker for a while. Now I have been asked to teach a >> community education class for beginning stained glass. [copper-foil only] >> Since I have only been doing this craft for 3 years, I'm a relative beginner >> myself. However, I have attended a few classes-both good and bad-and they >> pleaded with me so nicely, I accepted. Now I could use some tips on making >> my class successful. There will be a maximum of 6 students, and it will be >> for 6 weeks, 2 hours a night so I figure I should only do a very small >> project to get them started. Community education does not have any supplies >> at all to help me. They are going to charge a little more for the class so >> I can purchase an extra soldering iron that will start their supplies. So >> essentially, I have to use all my own equipment. >> >> Can anyone give me any tips that might help me? It would be greatly >> appreciated. The classes don't start until September. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Debby >> >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >well, alot of schools that i know of never give supplies, usally it's >the teacher responabilty. they bring in the stuff needed, and the >students buy from them (usally at the cost you paid for it). or during >the first class you can explain the basics, give them a list of what's >needed and let them buy there own supplies. but usally you would need to >keep a small supply of glass, and basic supplies for them to buy. > >and far as projects, most people have in mind what they want to make, >though some are a bit more ambitous than others and may panic once they >find out hard it can be. and other's may take the class, and be better >than you, i'd just let them do there own thing. > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > New Pages Added: > - New Instructional Guides Added!!! > - The Creative Process > - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers > - Picking Out Glass in the Store > - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory > - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory > - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 22:12:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:12:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: dns.ida.net!dstang From: Debby Wylie To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: glass instruction Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:08:05 -0600 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970626231236.45f777c0@mail.ida.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk At 01:07 PM 6/25/97 -0400, you wrote: >Message text written by Debby Wylie >>Can anyone give me any tips that might help me? It would be greatly >appreciated.< > >Good class size - 6. How many grinders do you have access to? Get as ma= >ny >as you can so you don't have students waiting in line to grind. If you d= >o >have limited grinder use, make a rule up so that each student can only >grind two pieces at a time, so you have a rotation going on and everybody= > >gets to use the equipment equally. > I will only have 1 grinder available, my own, so your idea about a time/piece limit is great. >Make sure your students sign a release form, releasing you and the >community school from any liability should they injure themselves. I hav= >e >a combination "The Process of Making a Stained Glass Panel" and injury >release form which I make the students sign during the 1st 30 minutes of >the 1st class. If you want, I can send it to you. That would be great. I had thought about that but didn't know exactly what it should say. Thanks! > >Make a list of all the things you think you will need in order to run a >class outside of your studio. I have such a list I use (I have run s.g. >classes at my church and at an art gallery). Again, if you want I can po= >st >it so you don't have to re-invent the wheel. This list helps you avoid >forgetting something when you're operating out of a different location. Oh, that would be great! > >Let the students choose the type of music to listen to while working. Th= >is >brings the class closer together and music is a stress reliever when >they're learning a new skill. I always take my boom box and a wide >selection of CDs from which they can choose. > >You may not have a proper surface upon which to solder. I take a large >cork board with me for this purpose. Have the students bring their own >safety glasses and shop aprons so you don't have to. Luckily, the class is going to be in a lab classroom, and they can supply the aprons and safety glasses. There is also a sink, and the work surfaces are large and high! > >Work out a deal with a local stained glass supplier, to get a price break= > >for bulk purchases for the class. I did this with my local supplier. Th= >e >students had to purchase a base set of supplies such as glass cutter, >breaking pliers, solder, flux, flux brush, etc., plus the glass and frami= >ng >for the project. = > > >I would suggest having a selection of patterns of the same general beginn= >er >level ready from which the students may choose their project. I usually >offer six different patterns - all a small flat panel, but of quite >different styles. They should involve straight line and some curved >pieces, but not too many pieces. This way the student learns all the >basics without getting frustrated by too many pieces, or too small pieces= >, >or trying to do a 3-D project too soon. > >Anyway, that's just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Good luck. >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. Thanks!!! Debby >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jun 26 22:18:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:18:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: dns.ida.net!dstang From: Debby Wylie To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: glass instruction Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:13:46 -0600 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970626231816.50071c1c@mail.ida.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Thank you so much!!! Debby At 08:21 AM 6/26/97 -0400, you wrote: >OK, here's my stuff. Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 27 05:38:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 05:37:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass Atlas Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:37:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun27.43753.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Did I miss something? Was the Glass Atlas location announced? I just stumbled onto some of our submissions to the glass atlas at = Great. Some nice stuff I may want to try.=20 Meanwhile, this weekend I'm obligated to make 5 music box privies = (outhouses) that are already sold. The music box sits below the one = holer and a retired navy guy wants the Marine Hymn in his. Repetitive = and not very creative but it pays, so I can buy more glass for the fun = stuff. :) =20 Linda Campbell Suffolk, Virginia ---------- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 27 06:12:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 06:11:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: icsp.net!rballard From: "Robin Ballard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Robert Oddy's lecture Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 06:10:18 -0500 Message-ID: <13141561201408@icsp.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I seem to have missed this report! Would someone be so kind as to forward a copy of it to me at rballard@icsp.net? Thanks so much! ---------- > From: aking@swin.edu.au > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Robert Oddy's lecture > Date: Friday, June 27, 1997 4:40 AM > > Christie, > > Thank you very much for the time and effort you took to write and > forward to us the report on Robert's lecture. Very well written > Christie, and being all the way over in here in Aust I really > appreciate the time and effort you took to convey his techniques to > us. > > Thanks again > Andrea > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 27 07:22:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 07:21:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: glass painting questions Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:20:40 +0000 Message-ID: <1997Jun27.142040.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Everybody, I have been experimenting with some glass paints for the past few weeks and have learned a lot, but have many questions still unanswered. Just wondered if anyone in the Group would care to comment ...... Kiln is a tall, top-loading octagon, 30" tall x 26" (flat-to-flat) across. I don't have a pyrometer so have been using cones, mostly 19 and 20, but have experimented with 21 and 22 as well. I have been using glass paints from Reusche, tracing black, bistre brown and yellow #3 stain. The black and brown paints take very well using 19 and 20 cones, and on any glass. The stain has me pulling my hair out ...... it takes to clear float glass with a dark and dull orange color when I use 19 and 20 cones, but yields and nice transparent yellow when using 21, and even better when using a 22 cone. So, what's the problem? ...... When I go to a nice antique glass ..... specifically, Casmir pale green, the results are inconsistent. Sometimes I get a good looking transparent color, sometimes I get nothing. I called Reusche and talked with a technical help person and he suggested that I vent my kiln. I did ... and that has yielded an even more intense and beautiful yellow stain, but blotchy. Questions: What about kiln wash? I bought some porceline powder from a local ceramics supply shop and added water then brushed out an even coat on the shelves. I let it dry, then fired it at about 2200 degrees to burn it off. I've seen some stuff called "shelf primer", is it any different than kiln wash? Albinus Elskus recommends (in his book) using whiting, which seems like a lot of hassle, but maybe it's needed for the silver stains? What about mixing of the stain on the pallet? I pour out about a half teaspoon of the powdered stain on the pallet, it supposedly has gum arabic mixed in already so I do not add any more, then add a little water and mix with a pallet knife until it is kinda pasty. In his book, Albinus makes a strong point that silver nitrate cannot be diluted past its limit and will begin to separate when oversaturated. I know I have overdiluted some paints before and simply added more powder to thicken it up, but perhaps stains are damaged beyond recovery when overdiluted? I dunno ...... anyone familiar with the chemistry of silver nitrate? What about reconstituting dried stain on the pallet from the the day (or two) before? This stuff is supposed to be stable forever. I have scraped old dried paints together and added a little water to bring them back without any problems, but because results have been so inconsistent, I always make up a fresh batch of yellow stain before I fire it ..... and at $15 bucks an ounce, that's just added to the frustration! Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Thanks. Mike Peck Summit Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 27 19:21:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:20:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Bubstah From: Bubstah@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Robert Oddy's lecture Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 22:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun27.181831.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I too would appreciate a copy of Mr. Oddy's lecture. My granddaughter inadvertantly deleted it before I had a chance to read it. Thank you in advance. Bubstah@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 27 19:29:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 19:28:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: vgernet.net!cummings From: Bill Cummings To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass painting questions Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 22:30:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun27.18306.0> References: <<1997Jun27.142040.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cummings Stained Glass Studios, Inc. Precedence: bulk Mike Peck wrote: > > Hi Everybody, > > I have been experimenting with some glass paints for the past few weeks and > have learned a lot, but have many questions still unanswered. Just wondered > if anyone in the Group would care to comment ...... > > Kiln is a tall, top-loading octagon, 30" tall x 26" (flat-to-flat) across. > I don't have a pyrometer so have been using cones, mostly 19 and 20, but > have experimented with 21 and 22 as well. > > I have been using glass paints from Reusche, tracing black, bistre brown and > yellow #3 stain. The black and brown paints take very well using 19 and 20 > cones, and on any glass. The stain has me pulling my hair out ...... it > takes to clear float glass with a dark and dull orange color when I use 19 > and 20 cones, but yields and nice transparent yellow when using 21, and even > better when using a 22 cone. So, what's the problem? ...... When I go to a > nice antique glass ..... specifically, Casmir pale green, the results are > inconsistent. Sometimes I get a good looking transparent color, sometimes I > get nothing. > > I called Reusche and talked with a technical help person and he suggested > that I vent my kiln. I did ... and that has yielded an even more intense > and beautiful yellow stain, but blotchy. > > Questions: > > What about kiln wash? I bought some porceline powder from a local ceramics > supply shop and added water then brushed out an even coat on the shelves. I > let it dry, then fired it at about 2200 degrees to burn it off. I've seen > some stuff called "shelf primer", is it any different than kiln wash? > Albinus Elskus recommends (in his book) using whiting, which seems like a > lot of hassle, but maybe it's needed for the silver stains? > > What about mixing of the stain on the pallet? I pour out about a half > teaspoon of the powdered stain on the pallet, it supposedly has gum arabic > mixed in already so I do not add any more, then add a little water and mix > with a pallet knife until it is kinda pasty. In his book, Albinus makes a > strong point that silver nitrate cannot be diluted past its limit and will > begin to separate when oversaturated. I know I have overdiluted some paints > before and simply added more powder to thicken it up, but perhaps stains are > damaged beyond recovery when overdiluted? I dunno ...... anyone familiar > with the chemistry of silver nitrate? > > What about reconstituting dried stain on the pallet from the the day (or > two) before? This stuff is supposed to be stable forever. I have scraped > old dried paints together and added a little water to bring them back > without any problems, but because results have been so inconsistent, I > always make up a fresh batch of yellow stain before I fire it ..... and at > $15 bucks an ounce, that's just added to the frustration! > > Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Thanks. > > Mike Peck > Summit Stained Glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassMike Although not a chemist we do have some experience with silver stain. When Albin Elskus was here teaching a class many years ago he had his class making silver stain. A chemistry teacher from the local high school said that what Albin was suggesting was not possible. Two days later the chemist came back all excited and told us that he had figured it out. The firing temperature is critical to the success of the chemistry. What little I remember is that the kelp glasses seemed to be far more successful that others. The chemist heard this discussion (Dennis King, Norwich, England made the comment) of kelp glass and the chemist started to investigate. Somehow, the iodine in the kelp is critical to the staining process. After 35 years of staining on glass we are prepared to tell you that even the clear glass which you fired so successfully is tricky; if you attempt to put the stain on the wrong side of float glass it will not take at all. Many glass do not seem to accept stain well. For some reason green is generically one of those colors which has a difficult time taking stain. There are some greens which will accept stain better than others. Experiment with every color in your stock and keep a sample as to how that color accepts stain. It is very typical for stain to be received with little regard for your best laid plans. Some stains take very well to some glasses and not others. The last tidbit of advise we would like to through out is that your tools for staining must be uncontaminated from use in other pigments. This means that the glass palette itself, the mixing pallette, the brushes (application and blending) must never be use for anything other than staining. Generally speaking too much heat will burn the stain off the glass. Good luck in your pursuites. Keep accurate records. Bill ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jun 27 20:20:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 20:20:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: vgernet.net!cummings From: Bill Cummings To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: glass@bungi.com Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 23:18:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun27.191833.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Cummings Stained Glass Studios, Inc. Precedence: bulk Please take me off of your mailing list. I didn't realize the magnitude of question being asked. I do not have the time to be a responsible member. Keep up the good work. My e mail address is cummings@vgernet.net. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 28 01:47:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 01:46:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!byerwood From: K Wood/C Byers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: test#2 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:34:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.73446.0> References: <<9705258672.AA867270430@mfi.com>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Byerwood Productions Precedence: bulk -- Byerwood Productions ArtWorks & Literary Kathy Wood/Candace Byers ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 28 01:47:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 01:46:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!byerwood From: K Wood/C Byers To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: test Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:34:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun25.73423.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Byerwood Productions Precedence: bulk -- Byerwood Productions ArtWorks & Literary Kathy Wood/Candace Byers ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 28 06:56:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 06:55:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: classes Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 07:50:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970612175105.2bc7e0de@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Folks; (I wrote the following, and then read the last few days mail.... Thanks to all the people who answered Debby, that was very interesting to me too. However, I have some slightly different questions)! A friend of mine is starting (july-Aug '98) something she calls Monteverde studios for the arts. She wants me to teach stained glass (I am only doing copper foil method). Although I do it... I have never taken a class! So.... Here are some of my ideas, and I would love any feedback any off you care to give. Also any things you loved or hated in any classes you may have taken... I have been saving anything to do with classes that any of you have said in the last few months! I have one week (20 hours) to do a course in: I was thinking of a beginers stained glass, focusing on the how of pattern making, glass selection, cutting, soldering, finishing. But using a stock of premade easy patterns. Is this doable? I can set the number of students to anything I want.. so I will probably keep it small. Then I was thinking of a design course in which we go out into the forest and draw, and then bring these back to the studio and make them into viable stained glass designs....I think that would take all week, so then I would reccomend a second weeks course in Intermediate SG (again copper foil) to follow, to put their designs into practice... even at this I wonder if I am biting off too big a bite... what do you think??? The finished pieces have to be smallish, because most students will be coming from other countries and will want to take their creation with them. I wonder if people would come for two weeks of courses? I would have to set them up so that people could also do one or the other. The other thing that I am excited about is that my brother, as well as learning stained glass is a woodworker.... so I would like to incorporate this aspect too... like clock cases, frames, bookends, boxes, praire style lamps etc... I would think that with only 20 hours, that to make one of these things would also take a full class...... would anyone take just this class? Also, would people consider taking 4 hours of one thing in the morning and 4 hours of something else in the afternoon??? I would love to hear your reactions to all of this!!! I am in a vaccumm down here, and have no idea about so much of these details... I just do it!!! The last day (not incl in the 20 hours) will be to mount an informal show of everything everyone has done in all the classes (painting, basket making, sewing, weaving, ceramics....etc.) you get the picture! and a windup big group discussion of some sort... thank God I am not in charge of that part!!!! Please... feedback... Thanks.. Meg ps... finally can see light at the end of Noahs Ark (1000 pieces)! Can start wrapping soon! Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 28 06:58:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 06:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Reinforcing Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 07:52:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970612175328.2baf5bda@sol.racsa.co.cr> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Delphi sells it.. Meg At 10:43 PM 6/25/97 -0400, you wrote: >Where can you find flat copper reinforcement thats only a few mm thick? >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Richard and Meg LaVal apdo. 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA tel: 506 645 5052 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 28 08:16:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 08:16:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass@bungi.com Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:11:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun28.71138.0> References: <<1997Jun27.191833.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Bill Cummings wrote: > > Please take me off of your mailing list. I didn't realize the magnitude > of question being asked. I do not have the time to be a responsible > member. Keep up the good work. My e mail address is > cummings@vgernet.net. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass you don't have to answer them, you can just lurk-out. and answer the ones you want. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 28 08:29:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 08:28:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: classes Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:23:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun28.72319.0> References: <<1.5.4.16.19970612175105.2bc7e0de@sol.racsa.co.cr>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Richard LaVal wrote: > > Hi Folks; > (I wrote the following, and then read the last few days mail.... > Thanks to all the people who answered Debby, that was very interesting to > me too. However, I have some slightly different questions)! > A friend of mine is starting (july-Aug '98) something she calls > Monteverde studios for the arts. She wants me to teach stained glass (I am > only doing copper foil method). Although I do it... I have never taken a > class! So.... Here are some of my ideas, and I would love any feedback any > off you care to give. Also any things you loved or hated in any classes you > may have taken... I have been saving anything to do with classes that any of > you have said in the last few months! > I have one week (20 hours) to do a course in: I was thinking of a > beginers stained glass, focusing on the how of pattern making, glass > selection, cutting, soldering, finishing. But using a stock of premade easy > patterns. Is this doable? I can set the number of students to anything I > want.. so I will probably keep it small. Then I was thinking of a design > course in which we go out into the forest and draw, and then bring these > back to the studio and make them into viable stained glass designs....I > think that would take all week, so then I would reccomend a second weeks > course in Intermediate SG (again copper foil) to follow, to put their > designs into practice... even at this I wonder if I am biting off too big a > bite... what do you think??? The finished pieces have to be smallish, > because most students will be coming from other countries and will want to > take their creation with them. I wonder if people would come for two weeks > of courses? I would have to set them up so that people could also do one or > the other. The other thing that I am excited about is that my brother, as > well as learning stained glass is a woodworker.... so I would like to > incorporate this aspect too... like clock cases, frames, bookends, boxes, > praire style lamps etc... I would think that with only 20 hours, that to > make one of these things would also take a full class...... would anyone > take just this class? Also, would people consider taking 4 hours of one > thing in the morning and 4 hours of something else in the afternoon??? I > would love to hear your reactions to all of this!!! I am in a vaccumm down > here, and have no idea about so much of these details... I just do it!!! > The last day (not incl in the 20 hours) will be to mount an informal show of > everything everyone has done in all the classes (painting, basket making, > sewing, weaving, ceramics....etc.) you get the picture! and a windup big > group discussion of some sort... thank God I am not in charge of that part!!!! > Please... feedback... Thanks.. Meg > > ps... finally can see light at the end of Noahs Ark (1000 pieces)! Can > start wrapping soon! > Richard and Meg LaVal > apdo. 24-5655 > Monteverde > COSTA RICA > tel: 506 645 5052 > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well i'm not too sure of the drawing in the forest thing. mainly becuase alot of people can't draw, and area afraid of doing it. it's best if they go to a seperate drawing class, otherwise they'll be overwelmed. and alot of people don't want to go to a couple of places, just one room, i never really liked fieldtrips, that i had to drive to. basically i think the basics should be taught. they can be book designs, or their own. if it's their's make sure it's stained glass possible, easy to cut curves, no bandsawing. i don't think people would mind morning-afternoon classes. the morning would be stained glass 1, afternoon #2. you would have to decide whether benniners would be allowed to take the advanced class. becuase things like lamps, decorative soldering, complex boxes, etc, would be taught, and if they don't know how to cut glass, that could be a problem. i would keep the woodworking into a sperate class. then between the two you could combine the projects. it could even work out, that your brother teaches a morning class and makes, say, a jelery box base. and they go to your afternoon class and make the glass insert, that's pre-measured, or even pre-designed. of course you would need a shop that has access to wood working tools. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 28 18:10:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 18:09:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts From: Melanie Dunstan To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass 'painting' questions Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 02:59:59 +0800 Message-ID: <1997Jun29.105959.0> References: <<1997Jun27.18306.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services Precedence: bulk Bill Cummings wrote: > > if you attempt to put the stain on the wrong > side of float glass it will not take at all. ----------- This comment about the wrong side of float glass is very interesting. I'm halfway through a weekend glass fusing course with Rexort International (aka Hi-Glass - Gidday you guys) and Harald was telling us about oily fingermarks leaving a indelible trace when the glass is fused - sometimes. As part of the discussion that ensued, I conjectured that maybe it was the 'tinned' side that reacted to the finger oils.... which led to another thought.... which would be to utilise those fingermarks to make heirloom pieces for doting relatives of baby's toes and hand prints, etc etc. The question that's been nagging me since I came home is... which side is the 'wrong' side? and how do you find out - or is it possible to find out, without the 'suck it and see' test? Appreciate anyone taking the time and trouble to reply; Regards Melanie Dunstan in Perth ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jun 28 19:23:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 19:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass 'painting' questions Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 22:15:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun28.181553.0> References: <<1997Jun29.105959.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Melanie Dunstan wrote: > > Bill Cummings wrote: > > > > > if you attempt to put the stain on the wrong > > side of float glass it will not take at all. > ----------- > This comment about the wrong side of float glass is very interesting. > I'm halfway through a weekend glass fusing course with Rexort > International (aka Hi-Glass - Gidday you guys) and Harald was telling us > about oily fingermarks leaving a indelible trace when the glass is fused > - sometimes. > > As part of the discussion that ensued, I conjectured that maybe it was > the 'tinned' side that reacted to the finger oils.... which led to > another thought.... which would be to utilise those fingermarks to make > heirloom pieces for doting relatives of baby's toes and hand prints, etc > etc. > > The question that's been nagging me since I came home is... which side > is the 'wrong' side? and how do you find out - or is it possible to find > out, without the 'suck it and see' test? > > Appreciate anyone taking the time and trouble to reply; Regards Melanie > Dunstan in Perth > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass as i read in one of my stained glass mags (i forget which one). kay weiner stated the tinned side had tiny fracture like patterns just below the surface. if you were to look at it, you would see those patterns. now i did look at it, and i did see it, but it was the same pattern my cutter made. and to prove it i scoreed on the other side, and the same thing happened. so now i'm back to square one again. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 29 07:54:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 07:53:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 09:56:26 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970629095626.007b4e80@busprod.com> References: <<1997Jun27.43753.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >Did I miss something? Was the Glass Atlas location announced? > >I just stumbled onto some of our submissions to the glass atlas at > Linda... I had no idea it was up yet...actually, I thought there would have been a lot more patterns considering how many of us are in this group. Are these all the submissions? Are any of you regular contributors to the mail list adding a pattern? LJ **************************************************************** LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "Unique Stained Glass Creations" OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 29 16:42:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 16:41:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: test Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 18:44:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun29.134422.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk my mail program crashed so I'm trying to rebiuld! sorry...LJ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 29 18:47:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 18:46:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Richard LaVal , Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: classes Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 21:45:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun29.174532.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Meg, This is what I've found really works for a beginning copper foil stained glass class with between 4 and 8 students. I don't accept more than 8 in= a class. Also, for safety sake, I do not allow people under the age of 14 into my classes. By that age they can handle the safety rules and tediou= s concentration required of the craft. 2 hours =3D stained glass concepts, safety procedures, introduction to th= e tools, selection of pattern 2 hours =3D different types of glass, selection of glass, cutting pattern= , gluing pattern onto glass 2 hours =3D practice cutting glass on clear float glass, cutting glass wi= th pattern, re-cutting after mistakes 2 hours =3D grinding to exact shape, begin foiling 2 hours =3D finish foiling, framing up, soldering, cleaning 2 hours =3D patina, final framing (zinc or oak), waxing =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 16 hours for one project of approximately 8" x 10" rectangle with mostly straight lines and some curves By adding the step of going out into the forest and drawing (which I thin= k is a great idea) you can add another 2 hours. There will be some people uncomfortable with doing their own drawing though. So you might want to have some ready-made patterns available for them to select. As to doing making a lamp or clock face, etc., I think this would take mo= re time than the 20 hours. I don't allow students to go into 3-dimensional works such as the clocks, boxes or lamps until they have successfully completed the beginning panel project. But you didn't exactly say how yo= u were planning on spending the 20 hours across the one or two weeks. If you want to offer two different but related topics (maybe one in the morning and the other in the afternoon), you might also want to offer something like stained glass mosaics or kiln-fused and slumped glasswork.= = The mosaics are easy to teach, easy to set up, and easy to do, but they require cement curing time which you may not have. And the finished products are heavy to transport, which may be a consideration if your students are flying in for the classes. The kiln worked projects are eas= y to do, easy to set up, etc. and have the advantage of being relatively lightweight for transport. On the other hand, you must have a kiln and a= re limited by its dimensions as to what you can and can't do in them. Hope these suggestions help. Good luck. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, Inc. Message text written by Meg LaVal > I have one week (20 hours) to do a course in: I was thinking of= a beginers stained glass, focusing on the how of pattern making, glass selection, cutting, soldering, finishing. But using a stock of premade easy patterns. Is this doable? I can set the number of students to anything = I want.. so I will probably keep it small. Then I was thinking of a design= course in which we go out into the forest and draw, and then bring these back to the studio and make them into viable stained glass designs....I think that would take all week, so then I would reccomend a second weeks course in Intermediate SG (again copper foil) to follow, to put their designs into practice... even at this I wonder if I am biting off too big= a bite... what do you think??? The finished pieces have to be smallish, because most students will be coming from other countries and will want t= o take their creation with them. I wonder if people would come for two wee= ks of courses? I would have to set them up so that people could also do one= or the other. The other thing that I am excited about is that my brother, a= s well as learning stained glass is a woodworker.... so I would like to incorporate this aspect too... like clock cases, frames, bookends, boxes,= praire style lamps etc... I would think that with only 20 hours, that to= make one of these things would also take a full class...... would anyone take just this class? Also, would people consider taking 4 hours of one thing in the morning and 4 hours of something else in the afternoon??? I= would love to hear your reactions to all of this!!! I am in a vaccumm down here, and have no idea about so much of these details... I just do it!!!= The last day (not incl in the 20 hours) will be to mount an informal show= of everything everyone has done in all the classes (painting, basket making,= sewing, weaving, ceramics....etc.) you get the picture! and a windup big group discussion of some sort... thank God I am not in charge of that part!!!! Please... feedback... Thanks.. Meg< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jun 29 21:15:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 29 Jun 1997 21:13:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: classes Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 00:12:34 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970630001233.006fafd0@mail.bright.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >By adding the step of going out into the forest and drawing (which I thin= >k >is a great idea) you can add another 2 hours. There will be some people >uncomfortable with doing their own drawing though. So you might want to >have some ready-made patterns available for them to select. The thing I hated the most about my 1st stained glass class was that the teacher assigned projects to us. I wanted to do Victorian type designs, and she chose a floral. This is just my 2 cents. I have heard recently from other teachers that they only offer 4 choices of patterns for the project because otherwise with beginners it is too much to handle for the teacher. I have taken drawing courses also and when I am required to draw something the teacher suggests I have a lot less interest than when I am given suggestions about my own choice. I think that as much as you can individualize a class without jeopardizing the sanity of the teacher would appeal to me. However, just my two cents worth. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 04:09:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 04:08:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Slim Pickings Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1997Jun30.3821.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Has anyone gotten more than just a few messages this weekend on bungi line? Would someone please let me know as I am wondering if it is AOL again. Thanks! Eleanor ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 04:20:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 04:20:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: computer.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Slim Pickings Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:27:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199706301120.HAA01798@ns.computer.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk > Has anyone gotten more than just a few messages this weekend on bungi line? > Would someone please let me know as I am wondering if it is AOL again. I've been active on bungi for quite a while now and find that the volume of messages drops sharply on Saturday and Sunday, Eleanor. Could it be that the participants here have *real *lives! beyond bungi.com? Hard to believe, perhaps, but apparently true. Albert Lewis International Guild of Glass Artists A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509 (914) 278-2152 Fax: (914) 278-2481 _________________________________________________________ http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide] http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 06:04:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 06:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: beachaccess.com!ncscoutr From: "NC Scouter" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Subject: Re: Slim Pickings Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 08:55:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun30.15520.0> References: <<199706301120.HAA01798@ns.computer.net>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd. Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > Has anyone gotten more than just a few messages this weekend on bungi line? > > Would someone please let me know as I am wondering if it is AOL > again. > > I've been active on bungi for quite a while now and find that the > volume of messages drops sharply on Saturday and Sunday, Eleanor. > Could it be that the participants here have *real *lives! beyond > bungi.com? > > Hard to believe, perhaps, but apparently true. > > Albert Lewis Dear Albert, I believe that I can speak for SEVERAL of us on this topic, at least for THIS weekend... We were all in Baltimore at "Source '97" and I had a blast!! (Spent the firstborn too! ) Valerie Tydings Phelps Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd Wanchese NC -- ________ "But we have this treasure | | "Blessed are the censors in jars of clay..." ( ) for they shall ( ) inhibit the earth!" 2cor4.7niv (________) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 06:25:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 06:25:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: RJF2.RJF.COM!BETTY_HALL From: BETTY_HALL@RJF2.RJF.COM (BETTY HALL) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Slim Pickings Date: 30 Jun 97 09:26:52 EDT Message-ID: <349EB733015D3179@-SMF-> References: <<3AB2B73302BC6570@-SMF->> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I wasn't on the computer this weekend, but when I opened my E-mail there was 21 bungi messages from the week-end. I don't know if you consider that a lot or not. Betty, Internal Audit, Ext. 4160 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 06:27:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 06:27:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: busprod.com!artist From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: another test Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 08:29:14 -0500 Message-ID: <1997Jun30.32914.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Another test in progress...I lost everything in my mail program over the weekend! ________________________________________________________ LJ Maas, artist@busprod.com ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design "unique creations in stained glass" Over The Rainbow Web Page Design & Consulting ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 07:07:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:07:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: bridge.net!athena From: "M.-J. Taylor" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Slim Pickings Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:10:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970630101056.0076f08c@pop.bridge.net> References: <<1997Jun30.3821.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk My mailbox has been pretty empty of bungi matters, too, Eleanor. Cheers, M.-J. At 07:08 AM 6/30/97 -0400, you wrote: >Has anyone gotten more than just a few messages this weekend on bungi line? >Would someone please let me know as I am wondering if it is AOL again. > Thanks! >Eleanor >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 08:11:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 08:10:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mfi.com!shaly From: "Suzanne Haley" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re[2]: Slim Pickings Date: Mon, 30 Jun 97 07:22:01 PST Message-ID: <9705308676.AA867683228@mfi.com> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Sure did -- 24 messages since Friday noon PST. Suzanne Haley shaley@mfi.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Slim Pickings Author: glass@bungi.com at Internet Date: 6/30/97 7:13 AM My mailbox has been pretty empty of bungi matters, too, Eleanor. Cheers, M.-J. At 07:08 AM 6/30/97 -0400, you wrote: >Has anyone gotten more than just a few messages this weekend on bungi line? >Would someone please let me know as I am wondering if it is AOL again. > Thanks! >Eleanor >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 09:44:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:43:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: classes and honoring creativity Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:43:13 -0700 Message-ID: <199706301643.JAA01028@norm.island.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk >I have taken drawing courses also and when I am required to draw >something the teacher suggests I have a lot less interest than when I am >given suggestions about my own choice. I think that as much as you can >individualize a class without jeopardizing the sanity of the teacher would >appeal to me. However, just my two cents worth. > I think what the writer is talking about here is not stifling the creative energy that brought your students in the first place....trying to make sure there's some room for that, and honoring the creative process along with providing the basic technical skills. I facilitate creativity workshops where the emphasis is on the creative process and having people get in touch with that, and Meg I often do that using nature and outdoors as well as other techniques. It's amazing what can happen when that process is honored...it can be directed into any media at all. You might want to think about starting off with a first session of overview and developing/honoring the creative process before you ever go near glass. Have a discussion about what each person would like to do, and then spend some time with them directing those desires into what's realistic...Between class 1 and class 2 dig through your patterns and come up with a few simple ones that address the students' creative urges. That way you'd be honoring their creative process AND putting some limits on what cuts, number of pieces, etc. is achievable within your time frame and energy level. In my workshops I spend the morning developing techniques for accessing individual creativity, and the afternoon is spent using whatever medium the students want. I provide a few basics, and encourage them to bring whatever interests them...fabric/wool/jewellry/natural items/paints/etc. I live in dread of the day someone shows up with something REALLY MESSY, like clay. We do no technical skill work at all and its absolutely amazing to see the depth of meaning and beauty that individuals go home with!!!. Good luck with your classes Cheers Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 10:24:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:23:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Slim pickings Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:22:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun30.92231.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi Eleanor and everyone! I've barely had time to read my mail, much less write! Yikes! This week= we're building the infamous 14-foot Feng Shui window. Then we launch int= o a large 3-panel religious stained glass installation for an art show that= 's due on July 16th. Then right into building a 60-foot papier mache Chines= e dragon for the Pageant Parade of the Rockies. Then, maybe, we'll have enough time to catch up on some glass designs for all those patiently waiting future customers. It's too cool! And to think we actually get paid to have all this fun! I could think of worse jobs (like my former life as tax accountant/Sunday painter)! So, I REALLY would like to know what all the rest of you are working on - or playing for that matter! Se= nd a quick note and share with everyone so we don't go into serious bungi withdrawal!;-) Oh, I did e-mail Bill Cummings direct to find out the "right" and "wrong"= side of a piece of float glass, but have gotten no response. If anyone else knows, Michael and I are both really curious. Does everyone know except us??! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios 603 W. Colorado Ave. Colorado Springs, CO 80905 web site http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 11:57:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:56:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mthaxton From: Melissa Thaxton To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass@bungi.com Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 17:01:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun29.10113.0> References: <<1997Jun28.71138.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk M. Savad wrote: > Bill Cummings wrote: > > > > Please take me off of your mailing list. I didn't realize the > magnitude > > of question being asked. I do not have the time to be a responsible > > > member. Keep up the good work. My e mail address is > > cummings@vgernet.net. > > ---- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just stay on the list and if someones question peaks your interest and you have some time, put in your 2 cents worth!! I hardly ever speak but when I do I say too much, it's lots of fun. Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 12:18:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:18:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Diamond Max Question Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 15:10:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun30.111050.0> References: <<1997Jun27.43753.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Hi all, My husband just got me a Diamond Max grinder for our anniversary. (Sure beats the traditional wood, paper, brass stuff--whatever it'd be for 13 years.) My first thought was that I didn't need another grinder. I have an 11 year old Wizard that has always worked great, but this one does seem to have some nice features like for straight edges and mitred edges. Would anyone that has some feedback for me on this grinder give me your opinion? We can return it if I don't want it, but I assume that's only if we don't use it, which I haven't yet. Many thanks, Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 13:46:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:45:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: wbkq.com!dmcclain From: Donna McClain To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Diamond Max Question Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:44:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1997Jun30.94431.0> References: <<1997Jun30.111050.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: Wilkinson, Barker, Knauer and Quinn -- info@wbkq.com Precedence: bulk I swear by Glastar. I have only had two in the past 20 years and both are still operating without one single bit of problem. I understand Diamond does not have the greatest of records. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 14:39:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:37:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: gr.cns.net!pristine From: mcFrenzy To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass@bungi.com Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:38:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun30.133817.0> References: <<1997Jun29.10113.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk I'm a lurker!! stick w/ it. > > Bill Cummings wrote: > > > > > > Please take me off of your mailing list. I didn't realize the > > magnitude > > > of question being asked. I do not have the time to be a responsible > > > > > member. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 14:55:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:54:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Diamond Max Question Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:48:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun30.134824.0> References: <<1997Jun30.111050.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Jerri M Roey wrote: > > Hi all, > > My husband just got me a Diamond Max grinder for our anniversary. > (Sure beats the traditional wood, paper, brass stuff--whatever it'd be > for 13 years.) My first thought was that I didn't need another grinder. > I have an 11 year old Wizard that has always worked great, but this one > does seem to have some nice features like for straight edges and mitred > edges. Would anyone that has some feedback for me on this grinder give > me your opinion? We can return it if I don't want it, but I assume > that's only if we don't use it, which I haven't yet. > > Many thanks, > > Jerri > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i would keep it, i myself, have around 4 grinders. some do different things. i love by twin spin, your's is basically the same thing. it's great if you need to may a tight fitting corner. so far i've used it quite a bit. plus it has a more powerful motor then the inland. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 15:39:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 15:38:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Diamond Max Question Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:35:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun30.14358.0> References: <<1997Jun30.111050.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Jerri, You will love your Diamond Max grinder, it can also be turned into a bevel machine. I've had mine for about 1 1/2 years now, tech support is great too. The first disk delaminated, I called direct, and they sent another right away. The problem was in the adhesive they used in the early days, that is solved now. Bits have been fine. I can do angle grinding, bevels, use the 1/4 bit for small stuff, or to drill holes in glass. The 6 inch disk is great for quickly grinding a straight edge. Makes boxes and other square and rectangular shapes a snap. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Jerri M Roey wrote: > > Hi all, > > My husband just got me a Diamond Max grinder for our anniversary. > (Sure beats the traditional wood, paper, brass stuff--whatever it'd be > for 13 years.) My first thought was that I didn't need another grinder. > I have an 11 year old Wizard that has always worked great, but this one > does seem to have some nice features like for straight edges and mitred > edges. Would anyone that has some feedback for me on this grinder give > me your opinion? We can return it if I don't want it, but I assume > that's only if we don't use it, which I haven't yet. > > Many thanks, > > Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 15:54:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 15:53:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "glass@bungi.com" , "'Suzanne Haley'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Re[2]: Slim Pickings Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:49:13 -0100 Message-ID: <1997Jun30.174913.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk Have been busy since Thursday.. Checked my mail today and I have over 100 messages.. Majority being from the Bungis. I do enjoy this news line. Thanks to those who support it.. Gloria ---------- From: Suzanne Haley[SMTP:shaly@mfi.com] Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 2:22 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re[2]: Slim Pickings Sure did -- 24 messages since Friday noon PST. Suzanne Haley shaley@mfi.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Slim Pickings Author: glass@bungi.com at Internet Date: 6/30/97 7:13 AM My mailbox has been pretty empty of bungi matters, too, Eleanor. Cheers, M.-J. At 07:08 AM 6/30/97 -0400, you wrote: >Has anyone gotten more than just a few messages this weekend on bungi line? >Would someone please let me know as I am wondering if it is AOL again. > Thanks! >Eleanor >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 15:55:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 15:54:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net> To: "'glass@bungi.com'" , "'M. Savad'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Diamond Max Question Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:56:57 -0100 Message-ID: <1997Jun30.175657.0> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk In regards to your new Diamond Max grinder.. I have one and I enjoy it.. = Use it mainly for the straight edges.. As a hint or favor, watch your = first pieces that you grind on the straight edge/beveler.. The new disc = will chip your glass.. either do a piece that you will use a larger = foil or use some scrap glass to break in the disc. I had a some chunks = taken out of my glass on the first things I made from it.. Now it is = fine and I would not do without it. Gloria ---------- From: M. Savad[SMTP:morn@nac.net] Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 8:48 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Diamond Max Question Jerri M Roey wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > My husband just got me a Diamond Max grinder for our = anniversary. > (Sure beats the traditional wood, paper, brass stuff--whatever it'd = be > for 13 years.) My first thought was that I didn't need another = grinder. > I have an 11 year old Wizard that has always worked great, but this = one > does seem to have some nice features like for straight edges and = mitred > edges. Would anyone that has some feedback for me on this grinder = give > me your opinion? We can return it if I don't want it, but I assume > that's only if we don't use it, which I haven't yet. >=20 > Many thanks, >=20 > Jerri > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i would keep it, i myself, have around 4 grinders. some do different things. i love by twin spin, your's is basically the same thing. it's great if you need to may a tight fitting corner. so far i've used it quite a bit. plus it has a more powerful motor then the inland. ---Mike Savad --=20 Mike's Stained Glass http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 New Pages Added: - New Instructional Guides Added!!! - The Creative Process - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers - Picking Out Glass in the Store - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 17:33:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:32:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: another test Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:29:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1997Jun30.16293.0> References: <<1997Jun30.32914.0>> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk All the archives of this list are on the bungi.com site-that may help with recovering list mail. If there is anything in the last few days you are looking for, will be happy to try to forward it to you. I have periodically lost mail, and I'm sure there are some out there that are wondering why they got no reply, if so, please send e-mail again-I think I have my glitches solved. ;-) (with fingers crossed) Lee Boe Rain-boe's Creations LJ Maas wrote: > > Another test in progress...I lost everything in my mail program over the > weekend! > > ________________________________________________________ > LJ Maas, artist@busprod.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jun 30 23:15:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:12:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #7 built 1997-May-7) X-Path: netbridge.net!Balloch From: "Josh Balloch" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Bill Cummings Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:01:39 -0700 Message-ID: <06124972310024@netbridge.net> Reply-To: glass@bungi.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Melissa Thaxton > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: glass@bungi.com > Date: Sunday, June 29, 1997 5:01 PM > > > > > Bill Cummings wrote: > > > > > > Please take me off of your mailing list. > > > > > > > > ---- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Just stay on the list and if someones question peaks your interest and > you have some time, put in your 2 cents worth!! I hardly ever speak but > when I do I say too much, it's lots of fun. > Melissa > >I agree. It's good crafting to get everyone's imput. When you have something you are dying to share, share, otherwise be a lurker. Enjoy life is short, make it sweet. Shirley B. ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass