From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 03:17:17 1997
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: some glass i got
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 06:14:41 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.11441.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I was able to view the pic thru vue pro, but can't help with the type of
glass.  Perhaps the folks at Warner-C could help you.
Maureen.
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 03:31:17 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: mosaic stepping stones
Date: 01 Apr 97 06:24:22 EST
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.112422.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I would make your mosaic stepping stone molds the same depth as regular paving
bricks.  I believe that is 3" deep, but don't take my word on it.  Grab a brick
and match it.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 04:18:50 1997
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From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: some glass i got
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 07:09:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.293.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.11441.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Send us a sample or picture and we should be able to match it.

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro
http://www.warner-criv.com

> glass.  Perhaps the folks at Warner-C could help you.
> Maureen.
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 05:20:33 1997
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From: "Darlene" <mburacz@LAKEFIELD.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Picture Frames
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 07:14:35 -0600
Message-ID: <199704011248.GAA16570@lake1.lakefield.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



Does anyone know of a supplier for the cardboard
or plastic backs for picture frames?  The kind
with an arm on a hinge so that the frame can
stand by itself.  I want to make some frames as
Christmas gifts but can't quite bring myself to
buy a lot of cheap frames from Wal-mart just for
the backs.  Any other ideas for backing stained
glass frames?

Thanks,
Darlene
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 06:32:34 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: some glass i got
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 09:27:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.4271.0>
References: <<1997Mar31.71322.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Wayne Munro wrote:
> 
> Artistic Glass of Atlanta wrote:
> >
> > RE: Mike,
> >      all I recieved was a bunch of numbers/letters the picture did not
> > come through. Please try again. I wonder if anyone else had this
> > problem?
> > Melissa
> >
> > Melissa,
> >
> >         I came in on the tail end of this discussion about the glass you
> > were having problem matching.  Could you start over be describing where it
> > is used and its thickness and detail.  I would like to help if I can.
> >
> >         -Michael Delaware
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> Yes--That is all I got too; Do we have to reload the file or what is the
> directions to view the picture you sent of the glass sample?
> I had the same thing happen on an E-Mail from the makers of 'Zip Drive"
> and it all looked like outer-space talk to me! Any info for decifering
> the photo with directions would be appreciated......Wayne
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah i think what happened was, when the e-mail went through the bungi
server, which tacks on the bungi tag line, it must of stripped off the
gif89a header. making it all numbers like. if anything we can use this
as a test, at least it was a small file. anyway.... i stuck it on a
temorary page, the color is pretty good, little darker than the
original, but i was surprised that any of the irridescents came out at
all.

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/temp.htm

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 06:52:54 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: some glass i got
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 09:47:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.44724.0>
References: <<1997Mar31.172231.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

George and Gloria wrote:
> 
> M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> If both sides are iridized it might be Kokomo.  Wismach, Armstrong and
> Uroborous also have iridized ripple, but I believe only Kokomo has both
> sides irridized.
> >
> > izzy3@ix.netcom.com wrote:


well it's only on one side. i did'nt think anyone coated both sides. is
it called anything special. i'd love to have some of they're rippled
stuff with the coating on the front. i have a beautifull piece of red
ripple, with the coating on the back, but on the rippled side you can't
see any of the coating. i guess it has something to do with the spray
pooling in the crevices, or something.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 07:00:14 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: some glass i got
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 09:54:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.45446.0>
References: <<1997Mar31.153759.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

leestat7 wrote:
> 
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> 
> --------------1BC526BB7690
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> Mike,
> .jpg images are not very large, and if sent as a separte file with the
> attachment button (assuming you are useing Netscape 3.0 and netscape
> mail) it will come thru very fast.  The file can be saved to disk to
> manipulate it too.  I just got 40 .jpg pictures of spectrum glass
> colors,by e-mail, and it took about 1/2 second to come thru on my
> system. Also attaching sample of doing this to this e-mail, so you can
> see what it looks like. I am going to save each of the 40 glass picture
> to 'glass subdirectory' so I can use them in "Designer"  I will post an
> example to bungi.com in a day or so, of a simple design, with glass
> colors in the image.  More about that later.  We will all try to
> identify the glass for you , just send it again as a .jpg separate file
> attached.
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> 


well, we can give this a try, i decided not to re-upload due to the last
disaster. i e-mailed my self using the attachment and it came through
just fine, so i'm guessing it got stripped. 

we'll just call it a test for the future, if anything it certainly
livend the group a bit.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 07:05:12 1997
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From: "Gerald L. Collins" <idris@stlnet.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: some glass i got
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 09:06:39 
Message-ID: <199704011502.JAA18175@home.stlnet.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

On Mon, 31 Mar 1997 17:25:50 -0500, M. Savad wrote:

>leestat7 wrote:
>> 
>> Mike-this is all that came thru-bunch of numbers & letters, example
>> below-  Can you convert your gif file to .jpg and attach it in a
>> seperate file-use attachment button on Netscape mail.  Then it should
>> come thru as a picture Netscape can read in the Mail menu.
>> 
>> Lee Boe
>> M. Savad wrote:
>> >
>> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>> > HhbwIXjCyRBFOmxERuxGM3DCIryOfIMqJKzECPjCH7RCMFR244zsXDrFJmSCJxB4gadceDJp
>> > yWiCQtcpBFQDRczC3lY4H9ZYKCRgAtbzA9jZUv0xCBzAByDTtm4PFP4iD4pDBAgaP1PJkQTx
>> > jL9TPiADHsARpJEKqaSDdkzIM5TBAJyKzEBUN/z4M1R3RICC3qSLT+wFKXj2I7joIpgMKQV1
>> > llc4KTiCjT0xH/IF6O00LBiITvN3TIusU6gMKVT5Wr5ql7hxAQaHOmRdiMkapuy6pfhBmfAJ
>> > Tj1FIsRAvVFhvQV6MumQnSlVB9QAWH/fSxZYq0CPkVT/SRMEA7Y05QawtRJcJIO1BjFqRzZI
>> >
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>
>well i could try it again, this time as a jpg, i guess the only good
>thing here was, it was'nt terribly huge....:)
>
>---Mike Savad
>

Mike,
	The problem isn't with the format of the picture, it is with the way
your mailer handled it.  What are you using for a mail program. 
Anyone that received the original post can view it if they have a
stand alone Mime decoder.  Save the posting to a file and run the
decoder on the file.  Then they can use netscape or any gif file
viewer to see the results.  Hope this helps.

Jerry


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Gerald L. Collins -------------------- Collins Consulting Services

This Message Was Sent With An UNREGISTERED Version Of PMMail.  
Please Encourage Its Author To Register Their Copy Of PMMail.  
For More Information About PMMail And SouthSide Software's Other 
Products, Contact http://www.southsoft.com.


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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 07:07:30 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:02:51 EST
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.15251.0>
References: <<199704011248.GAA16570@lake1.lakefield.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Darlene,

	Delphi and Warner Crivellaro carry the frame backs, and they're
nicer than the ones you find in cheap frames.  I've made some frames for
gifts, and they came out really nice.

Jerri

>
>Does anyone know of a supplier for the cardboard
>or plastic backs for picture frames?  The kind
>with an arm on a hinge so that the frame can
>stand by itself.  I want to make some frames as
>Christmas gifts but can't quite bring myself to
>buy a lot of cheap frames from Wal-mart just for
>the backs.  Any other ideas for backing stained
>glass frames?
>
>Thanks,
>Darlene
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 07:13:22 1997
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mike's unidentified glass
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 07:10:35 -0800
Message-ID: <199704011510.HAA21149@norm.island.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike,

Just checked your temporary web page and the glass came up perfectly.  It
matches a piece of clear Spectrum glass that I have...#100R (r for ripple)
obviously.  I seem to remember they make an iridized version, although I've
never used it.  The iridescence on your scanned piece came out coppery,
rather than the more usual oil on water sort of greens and purples...is that
really the way it is?  If so, I'm not sure I've ever seen that kind of
iridescence on a Spectrum glass.

Cheers 

Carol
Synergy Glass & Creative
>

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 07:16:44 1997
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From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic stepping stones
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:09:44 EST
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.15944.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970331174047.155f118e@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Meg,

	I have one mold that I bought, and it's 1 1/2"deep.  I made one
by sawing off most of a bucket, and it's 2 1/2" deep.  I doesn't matter
if it's a little bigger, I just measure the cement when I make one to get
the thickness I want.

Jerri


On Mon, 31 Mar 1997 17:32:24 -0600 (CST) Richard LaVal
<rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr> writes:
>Hi All;
>        I was thinking of trying my hand at a stepping stone, but 
>since
>there are no mollds available here, I will have to make my own wood 
>one.
>What I was wondering is how deep they should be.  Funnily enough the 
>books I
>have mostly don't specify.... one said more than 4".  Thanks, Meg
>
>
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 07:28:54 1997
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Dave Rand solves problem!   Yeaaaa!!!!
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:23:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.52327.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.44724.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

I e-mailed Dave and Glenna direct to ask why the images were not coming
thru, and this is why.  Solves our mystery.  From now on if we have
images we want to share, we can do as he suggests.  Especially the
pictures Elisabeth is getting of the bungianian groups Chartres trip. 
Lee Boe 
Rain-Boe's Creations
 
Dave Rand wrote:

Those letters and numbers are a coding system that allows binary
attachments to be sent through email systems.  In general, please
do not send attachments through a mailing list (it clutters everyone's
email, even those that are not interested).  If you have images you
wish others to see, please email them directly to Glenna or me, and
we will place them on the web page.


-- 
Dave Rand
dlr@bungi.com
http://www.bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 07:58:41 1997
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X-Path: hiline.net!rgvmuse
From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Chartres stained glass visit
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 10:02:56 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.4256.0>
References: <<199704010149.CAA28347@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi All Bunginians,
> 
> Lee Boe; what a good idea of yours to scan & post photos/slides from
> our visit in Chartres  for  you ALL to have a look at in the Group. Now
> why didn't I MYSELF think of that...?
> Both Kathe and Peggy soundly tucked up in bed  (hopefully fast
> asleep by now, aided by some quantity of wine....).  Only Toby and I keeping vigil.
> ----
>

Friends,
I think this is a really cool way of letting those of us who couldn't
even think of joining the jaunt across the pond to "keep vigil" too. 
Thanks.  Wish I were there,  Linn
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 08:03:51 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: stepping stones
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 09:14:08 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.17148.0>
References: <<199703260044.SAA00412@lake1.lakefield.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Darlene and M.J.,

Would you mind sending me your e-mail address so I can send a copy of my =
file to you directly?

				Dawn

dawnm@mail.fidnet.com

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 08:12:51 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: some glass i got
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:07:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.6750.0>
References: <<199704011502.JAA18175@home.stlnet.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Gerald L. Collins wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 31 Mar 1997 17:25:50 -0500, M. Savad wrote:
> 
> >leestat7 wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike-this is all that came thru-bunch of numbers & letters, example
> >> below-  Can you convert your gif file to .jpg and attach it in a
> >> seperate file-use attachment button on Netscape mail.  Then it should
> >> come thru as a picture Netscape can read in the Mail menu.
> >>
> >> Lee Boe
> >> M. Savad wrote:
> >> >
> >> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >> > HhbwIXjCyRBFOmxERuxGM3DCIryOfIMqJKzECPjCH7RCMFR244zsXDrFJmSCJxB4gadceDJp
> >> > yWiCQtcpBFQDRczC3lY4H9ZYKCRgAtbzA9jZUv0xCBzAByDTtm4PFP4iD4pDBAgaP1PJkQTx
> >> > jL9TPiADHsARpJEKqaSDdkzIM5TBAJyKzEBUN/z4M1R3RICC3qSLT+wFKXj2I7joIpgMKQV1
> >> > llc4KTiCjT0xH/IF6O00LBiITvN3TIusU6gMKVT5Wr5ql7hxAQaHOmRdiMkapuy6pfhBmfAJ
> >> > Tj1FIsRAvVFhvQV6MumQnSlVB9QAWH/fSxZYq0CPkVT/SRMEA7Y05QawtRJcJIO1BjFqRzZI
> >> >
> >> ----
> >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> >
> >
> >well i could try it again, this time as a jpg, i guess the only good
> >thing here was, it was'nt terribly huge....:)
> >
> >---Mike Savad
> >
> 
> Mike,
>         The problem isn't with the format of the picture, it is with the way
> your mailer handled it.  What are you using for a mail program.
> Anyone that received the original post can view it if they have a
> stand alone Mime decoder.  Save the posting to a file and run the
> decoder on the file.  Then they can use netscape or any gif file
> viewer to see the results.  Hope this helps.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Gerald L. Collins -------------------- Collins Consulting Services
> 
> This Message Was Sent With An UNREGISTERED Version Of PMMail.
> Please Encourage Its Author To Register Their Copy Of PMMail.
> For More Information About PMMail And SouthSide Software's Other
> Products, Contact http://www.southsoft.com.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


no, i know how to use it, it's bungi that stripped the headers off the
graphic file. plain e-mail and it works fine, re-e-mailed and it's
stripped.


---Mike Savad

Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 08:18:39 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wC6Ev-00008ha; Tue, 1 Apr 97 08:16 PST
X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mike's unidentified glass
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:11:13 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.61113.0>
References: <<199704011510.HAA21149@norm.island.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Carol Swann wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> Just checked your temporary web page and the glass came up perfectly.  It
> matches a piece of clear Spectrum glass that I have...#100R (r for ripple)
> obviously.  I seem to remember they make an iridized version, although I've
> never used it.  The iridescence on your scanned piece came out coppery,
> rather than the more usual oil on water sort of greens and purples...is that
> really the way it is?  If so, I'm not sure I've ever seen that kind of
> iridescence on a Spectrum glass.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Carol
> Synergy Glass & Creative
> >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i edited it real fast, so i really did'nt concentrate on how accurate
the color was, mainly it's reds yellow's the usuall. i think i put too
much contrast in it. 

the glass looked like spectrum, but since i did'nt have any sample kits,
i could'nt compare it. i just never saw spectrum's version of ripple.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too

----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 08:24:25 1997
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	id m0wC6Kx-000156a; Tue, 1 Apr 97 08:23 PST
X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm
From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 10:04:21 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.18421.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Charles, Diane, Mary, Tomi, Meg, Mary Archibald, Carol, Scott, and Jane,

First of all, I apologize for posting this to the entire group, but I wan=
t to make sure I do not inadvertently leave someone out who corresponded =
with me regarding my file on stepping stones and mosaics.

I have sent each of you listed above an ASCII text file of all the notes =
on stepping stones and mosaics that I pulled off of the archives.  This =
includes all archives on the site (from inception of Bungi through the =
end of February, 1997--March's were not posted yet).  If you for some rea=
son do not get my message, please let me know.

Darlene and M.J., will you please send me your e-mail addresses and I wil=
l send it to you also?  If there is anyone else who requested it and I =
overlooked their request, please be sure to let me know.

Dawn

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 08:29:15 1997
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X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm
From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Undeliverable Mail for Tomi
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 10:29:38 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.182938.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Tomi,
	My message to you was returned undeliverable.  Will you please send me =
your e-mail address again.

					Dawn
dawnm@mail.fidnet.com

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 09:10:20 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wC73z-00010Ka; Tue, 1 Apr 97 09:09 PST
X-Path: ix.netcom.com!RThaxton
From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: some glass i got
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 09:05:15 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.1515.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike, 
	I haven't seen any glass that looks like that.  It's beautiful.  Sorry
I can't help with your delima... I'm sure someone out there has a
clue...

Melissa

Hind sight is better to have Before Hand!
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 09:10:56 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wC74e-000170a; Tue, 1 Apr 97 09:10 PST
X-Path: aol.com!Guitarshop
From: Guitarshop@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:10:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.7108.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello Darlene:

I wouldn't suggest that you try "conventional" picture frame backs.  My
experience is that the "leg" on the back is too short for stained glass use.
 My wife and I make several different picture frames in various sizes.  We
have been able to order the easel backs from mail order vendors such as
Whittemore Durgin, Glass Crafters, Delphi,etc.  They usually about $2-$3
dollars each, for a 5" X 7", but they work great.

(Next, a shameless plug).....

Since you too like to make picture frames, please take a look at our web
page.

HTTP://members.aol.com/Guitarshop

Let us know what you think of our picture frames.

Hope this info helps,

Michael & Donna McGrew
Shattered Images Studio
Houston,TX.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 09:22:02 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1
From: StndGlass1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 12:21:29 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.72129.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

We carry the easel backs for picture frames in a wide variety of sizes!  Let
me know if I can help!

Jenna Meredith
Meredith Stained Glass
www.meredithglass.com
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 09:27:39 1997
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X-Path: sprynet.com!labette
From: Laura Bettingen <labette@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 09:26:33 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.22633.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.15251.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi. This is a request of Jerri, since she has made picture frames using
the backings from Delphi. I ordered some of the backs, but have not
figured out the optimal way of making frames and attaching the backs.
Would it be possisble to describe this procedure. I would appreciate
your expertise and assistance. Thanks, Laura Bettingen
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 10:50:57 1997
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 13:44:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.84425.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.7108.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Michael & Donna,

Just visited your site and wanted to compliment you on it-very nice.
Picture frames are on my agenda too-when this overly busy gal, (me) gets
around to them. (I have a bunch of 'round-tuits). I have bookmarked your
site, so if I run into a problem I can ask for help.  

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 11:43:38 1997
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X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm
From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 97 13:46:56 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.214656.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.22633.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jerri (and anyone else with picture frame experience)

I would also be interested in hearing about the procedures you use for =
making picture frames.  Are you designing your own frames, and are there =
pattern books for frames for those of us that need some help getting star=
ted?
				Dawn
			

>Hi. This is a request of Jerri, since she has made picture frames using
>the backings from Delphi. I ordered some of the backs, but have not
>figured out the optimal way of making frames and attaching the >backs.
>Would it be possisble to describe this procedure. I would appreciate
>your expertise and assistance. Thanks, Laura Bettingen

----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 13:32:58 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wCBAB-00014La; Tue, 1 Apr 97 13:32 PST
X-Path: fast.net!charles
From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 16:25:20 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.112520.0>
References: <<199704011248.GAA16570@lake1.lakefield.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Darlene:

We set up a web page to show the Bungi group what we can't explain in an
e-mail:
http://www.warner-criv.com/bungi/
You will find picture frames there now.

These are a lot cheaper than buying frames at Wal-Mart ($1.05 each
for 5" x 7" frames when you purchase a dozen).

You should see the other items we have for Christmas gifts.

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro
http://www.warner-criv.com

Darlene wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know of a supplier for the cardboard
> or plastic backs for picture frames?  The kind
> with an arm on a hinge so that the frame can
> stand by itself.  I want to make some frames as
> Christmas gifts but can't quite bring myself to
> buy a lot of cheap frames from Wal-mart just for
> the backs.  Any other ideas for backing stained
> glass frames?
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 15:02:31 1997
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	id m0wCCZ1-0000ova; Tue, 1 Apr 97 15:02 PST
X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar
From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:01:53 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.13153.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn, 
          Could you send me your compilation as well, I am just starting to
do stepping stones and cannot ever read enough about any subject.
                              Thanking you in advance,
                                      Krissy         KrissyMar@aol.com
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 17:53:19 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds
From: George and Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: iridized ripple glass
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 20:56:20 -0100
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.195620.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

To Mike Savad,
Somehow I lost your e mail on the iridized ripple glass.  The ripple
that I have that is iridized on both sides is definitely  Kokomo. I had
purchassed some from  Sunshine Glass and the remainder I purchased from
a retail Glasss shop that closed.. there is still one sheet from an
unknown source- bought from a bargain bin that is wider than the Kokomo.
This glass is in a true yellow, iridized on both sides that makes a
great flower part and a fairy wing..  The Kokomo glass seems to be a
light cathedral glass- pink, grey, light blue or clear... Like you, when
I went to a local store and wanted a true green or a nice red, the
iridized was only on the side that was flat and not rippled.
I recently feel that there is a lot of stores, wholesale, manufacturers
that are on this line, and maybe might consider manufacturing a glass
that is iridized on the ripple side versus the solid side. I know that I
would buy it... 


Also, to the other bungi line people,
I am realy looking forward to the photos from Elizabeth and the Chartres
tour group. Like you all, i am very envious.
Elizabeth, Please give Toby a great hug.. I recently lost my Paris (14
years) and that hug I will never give again. Their lives are too short.
Love, 
Gloria
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 18:11:05 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:01:42 EST
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.2142.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.15251.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Laura and Dawn (and all),

	The backs don't attach.  You leave one side open, and they slide
in.  

	I'll try to explain:  You make the frame like you're making a
foil panel, with glass where the picture is to go.  Cut 1/8" zinc to fit
the top and sides.  The clear glass should be cut 1/8" smaller on all
sides, so that the came doesn't show.  Tape the came and turn it over and
check to make sure it doesn't show before you solder.  Tack solder the
ends, and then a few other places until secure.  Finish.  Insert picture.
 Insert back.

	It sounds confusing, but once you've done it one time, it makes
sense.  I bought a book to learn how (not knowing anyone else who did
glass at the time), but regretted it because I wasn't that crazy about
the patterns, I just wanted to learn the technique.  I've since made my
own.  I've done some with something 3-D added, like a flower, and I
really like these.  You could tack solder any little thing on.  I hope
this helps.  

Jerri


On Tue, 01 Apr 1997 09:26:33 -0700 Laura Bettingen <labette@sprynet.com>
writes:
>Hi. This is a request of Jerri, since she has made picture frames 
>using
>the backings from Delphi. I ordered some of the backs, but have not
>figured out the optimal way of making frames and attaching the backs.
>Would it be possisble to describe this procedure. I would appreciate
>your expertise and assistance. Thanks, Laura Bettingen
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 18:21:16 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wCFfD-0000rIa; Tue, 1 Apr 97 18:20 PST
X-Path: thezone.net!robertcrane
From: robert crane <robertcrane@thezone.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 22:59:39 -0330
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.191139.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.18421.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: thezone
Precedence: bulk

Dawn wrote:
> 
> Charles, Diane, Mary, Tomi, Meg, Mary Archibald, Carol, Scott, and Jane,
> 
> First of all, I apologize for posting this to the entire group, but I wan=
> t to make sure I do not inadvertently leave someone out who corresponded =
> with me regarding my file on stepping stones and mosaics.
> 
> I have sent each of you listed above an ASCII text file of all the notes =
> on stepping stones and mosaics that I pulled off of the archives.  This =
> includes all archives on the site (from inception of Bungi through the =
> end of February, 1997--March's were not posted yet).  If you for some rea=
> son do not get my message, please let me know.
> 
> Darlene and M.J., will you please send me your e-mail addresses and I wil=
> l send it to you also?  If there is anyone else who requested it and I =
> overlooked their request, please be sure to let me know.
> 
> Dawn
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


Thank you very much for your kind offer. It must have involved much work 
for you and it is very kind of you to share. Please forward information 
concerning your compilation to me. Thank you in anticipation
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 18:53:18 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wCGAJ-0000wWa; Tue, 1 Apr 97 18:52 PST
X-Path: acay.com.au!stout
From: "john stout" <stout@acay.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: restoration of lead
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:57:05 +1000
Message-ID: <199704020253.MAA19030@chris.acay.com.au>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello to all.

I have been doing stained glass in lead for about three years.
I have been asked by somebody to try to fix their leaded window
as the lead has become white from corrosion.  The glass and
the putty is fine.

I attempted to clean with wire brush but it does not seen to even scratch 
the surface. The windows are surrounded in cedar and it really is
too difficult to remove them from their frames (I did not make these
windows)
I wonder if there is some sort of wonder chemical I could use or
if not how do I go about getting the came back to a shinny state.
These windows were already in this condition when they were installed 
and these people didn't realize the extent of corrosion until they 
installed a window that I had made for them so I am confident that this
will not happen again as they are protected from the elements.

I have learnt so much from you people and enjoy reading my mail
daily.   thank you all.

Rosie.

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 20:49:10 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wCHyb-0001Bma; Tue, 1 Apr 97 20:48 PST
X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar
From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 23:48:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.184840.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have been doing glass for 8 years using a pencil grip, and can do it fine,
but have prob w/ wrist (was broken twice yrs ago, and now have lots of pain &
some swelling after cutting for hours). I just got my new pistol grip
thinking that it would ease the affected spot (I am certain it will), but was
using it today and felt like I was in outer space!! I could do the cuts, but
was slipping a bit, and found myself using my "old faithful" for the
intracate pcs. My question is has anyone had problems with control and do you
switch from pencil to pistol for various pcs? Will I ever have the same
control? I know, I just got the thing today, but it just has me wondering,
and I just feel like one of my students now!!! 
Any input for this topic will be greatly appreciated. I can feel the
difference in my wrist already after just cutting for a couple hrs, and NO
PAIN!! Should I just go and use both, reserving the pencil for only when
truly necessary? And no, I have not been using too much pressure on cuts.
Thanks to all................Kristina
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 22:12:34 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: LAKEFIELD.net!mburacz
From: "Darlene" <mburacz@LAKEFIELD.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Picture Frames & Stepping Stones
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:09:21 -0600
Message-ID: <199704020542.XAA09036@lake1.lakefield.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Many thanks to all who answered my question about
picture frame backs!  Now that I know where I can
order them, I am going into full production.  A
big thank you also to Dawn for sharing the
stepping stone information.  You have all been so
helpful to me this week!  

Darlene

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 22:21:11 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 01:15:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.201550.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.184840.0>>
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Hi Kristina,

I too have carpal tunnel syndrome, if I am not real careful, am right
handed.  Just keep practicing with the pistol grip-it will get  just as
easy as the pencil cutter.  Two things that help, use a morton surface/w
the tiny turntable, that helps rotate the glass for the more complicated
cuts, with less stress on the wrist (turn the glass to the cutter, not
the wrist to the glass).  Second wear a regular wrist brace for a while,
the kind with the metal plate or stay embedded in the palm thru the
wrist.  That forces the glass turning, minimizing the wrist action.  I
got my brace from the discount drug store (Wal-Mart) for far less than
going to the doctor.  They come in 2-3 sizes, just try them on.  They
are made of the same Ace-Wrap material, but talored for the wrist with
thumb holes. (Hope I did not go overboard with discription, but you may
not have seen what they look like)  When ever I start getting the wrist
pain again, (even on the keyboard) I put it on again for a few days.  A
little prevention goes a long way.

Hope this helps,

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations



KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have been doing glass for 8 years using a pencil grip, and can do it fine,
> but have prob w/ wrist (was broken twice yrs ago, and now have lots of pain 

<<snip>>
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  1 23:31:36 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass photographs
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 23:26:00 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr1.15260.0>
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I would like to know how you take those beautiful photographs of your
stained glass without getting the reflection of the flash to show up on
the glass. My camera is one of those fancy ones that determines whether
it needs to flash or not so I can't turn it off.  Does it make a
difference on inside and outside light if it is hanging in a window?
Should I be taking the pictures straight on or at an angle or will that
prevent the flashback on the glass?  
Bonnie Clark
fishbait@televar.com
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 02:17:18 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 05:16:39 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.01639.0>
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Dawn,
I too am interested in the compilation of notes on st. stones and mosaics.  I
am new to the bungians and look forward to my mail every day!  Please e-mail
me at YEGNIM@AOL.com.  Thank you so much!
Eleanor (Flourtown, PA)  right outside of Philadelphia.

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 02:31:39 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 05:31:15 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.03115.0>
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Kristina,
When I first started doing glass, about l0 years ago, I started with the
conventional cutter.  When I went to purchase a cutter, I saw the pistol grip
and instantly loved it believing that my total hand had more strength and
control than my fingers.  I have used it since, about 9 l/2 years, and have
absolutely no problem cutting any shape I desire (within reason, that is).  
I suggest that you stick with it, since it seems to alleviate the pain.  You
may want to use the pencil type initially for those intricate scores, but I
would gradually ease myself into using the pistol exclusively. In time, you
will not have any problems.  As I said, I have no problems and I know that
you will not either, as long as you give yourself a bit of time for the
adjustment.
Good luck!!!
Eleanor

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 02:53:29 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: restoration of lead
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 05:59:45 +0000
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> I have been asked by somebody to try to fix their leaded window
> as the lead has become white from corrosion.  The glass and
> the putty is fine.
> 
> I attempted to clean with wire brush but it does not seen to even scratch 
> the surface. 

The leads need to be replaced; they're shot. This happens with lead 
after a while, usually 100-150 years, but if the original came was 
"100% Pure Lead" (a scam by the lead manufacturers, since they've 
merely siphoned off all of the trace metals like silver and antimony 
and sold those elsewhere, but those trace metals give the lead came 
its strength and durability!), it can fatigue and fail in very few 
years.

Do you have Julie Sloan's book on restoration? That's "Conservation 
of Stained Glass in America," a prize-winning book that's highly 
recommended by Joe Porcelli at Glass Craftsman magazine (he calls it 
"a 256-page warehouse of information"). Check out the publisher's web 
site at http://www.aiap.com for more information.

Albert (who incidentally also edited the above book) <s>

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 02:53:30 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass photographs
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 05:59:45 +0000
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> I would like to know how you take those beautiful photographs of your
> stained glass without getting the reflection of the flash to show up on
> the glass.

Bonnie, as a photographer of glass of more than 25 years, I'll make 
one suggestion to you: never use a flash. Put your glass piece in 
natural light, use the slowest film you can find (Kodachrome 25, if 
you can find it), put the camera on a tripod and take long exposures 
to achieve full saturation of the exposure. You'll be very pleased 
with the results.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 03:35:06 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:KrissyMar@aol.com" <KrissyMar@aol.com>,
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: 02 Apr 97 06:31:33 EST
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.113133.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I use the pistol grip exclusively for my own work.  I let my students choose
pistol or pencil grip cutters when they take my beginning stained glass class.
Most choose pencil for the $$, but some do go after the pistol grip cutter right
away for the ease of use.

I have been using my pistol grip cutter for 5 years now.  I do all cuts with it.
Maybe it's just a question of practice for you.

...Christie

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 03:35:44 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>, "[unknown]" <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Re: Glass photographs
Date: 02 Apr 97 06:31:39 EST
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.113139.0>
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Message text written by Bonnie Clark
>I would like to know how you take those beautiful photographs of your
stained glass without getting the reflection of the flash to show up on
the glass. My camera is one of those fancy ones that determines whether
it needs to flash or not so I can't turn it off.  Does it make a
difference on inside and outside light if it is hanging in a window?
Should I be taking the pictures straight on or at an angle or will that
prevent the flashback on the glass?  
<

I use a 35mm non-automatic camera, without flash.  I purchased Steve Meltzer's
book, "Photographing Your Craftwork; A Hands-On Guide for Craftspeople" and it
has been well worth the $.  I went ahead and purchased two spotlights so that I
can backlight my stained glass artwork, as well as get some front lighting on it
if the piece calls for it.  I set up a small product photography studio down in
my basement by installing some hanging hooks in some ceiling beams.  On these I
hang my artwork.  Behind this I have a very clean, ironed white sheet, which is
my backdrop.  I place one or both of the spotlights behind the backdrop to
produce diffused, yet intense lighting for backlighting the stained glass.

Steve's book costs $12.95.  I believe I purchased mine either through IGGA
(International Guild of Glass Artists) or the Crafts Report magazine.  If you
need more info, write back.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 04:10:41 1997
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From: karenro <karenro@newpig3.newpig.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 07:03:08 -0500
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Dawn,

 I to would be interested in recieving the stepping stones/mosaics
 info from the archives.Thank you for sharing.

Karen Roberts
>karenro@newpig.com
>
>Charles, Diane, Mary, Tomi, Meg, Mary Archibald, Carol, Scott, and
>Jane,
>
>First of all, I apologize for posting this to the entire group, but I
>wan=
>t to make sure I do not inadvertently leave someone out who
>corresponded =
>with me regarding my file on stepping stones and mosaics.
>
>I have sent each of you listed above an ASCII text file of all the
>notes =
>on stepping stones and mosaics that I pulled off of the archives.  This
>=
>includes all archives on the site (from inception of Bungi through the
>=
>end of February, 1997--March's were not posted yet).  If you for some
>rea=
>son do not get my message, please let me know.
>
>Darlene and M.J., will you please send me your e-mail addresses and I
>wil=
>l send it to you also?  If there is anyone else who requested it and I
>=
>overlooked their request, please be sure to let me know.
>
>Dawn
>
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 04:30:21 1997
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From: Tina & David Plummer <dplummer@ime.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Compilation on Mosaics
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 97 07:24:31 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.152431.0>
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Dawn,
You have piqued my curiosity about the mosaics also!  
Please send me your compilations.  I know it must have 
been quite a project for you, thanks for sharing!  e-mail 
to dplummer@ime.net. 
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 04:36:00 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 07:04:29 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.15429.0>
References: <<199704011248.GAA16570@lake1.lakefield.net>>
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I think you can order them from Delphi or Sunshine glass
Mary
On Tue, 1 Apr 1997 07:14:35 -0600 "Darlene" <mburacz@LAKEFIELD.net>
writes:
>
>
>Does anyone know of a supplier for the cardboard
>or plastic backs for picture frames?  The kind
>with an arm on a hinge so that the frame can
>stand by itself.  I want to make some frames as
>Christmas gifts but can't quite bring myself to
>buy a lot of cheap frames from Wal-mart just for
>the backs.  Any other ideas for backing stained
>glass frames?
>
>Thanks,
>Darlene
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 04:42:37 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 07:45:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.2453.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn, you are a brave sole to attack such a task. I too would like an e-mail of the compilation on stepping stones. Thankyou so much.

Linda Campbell
lcbell@memach.com

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3``$````%````4D4Z( ````"NN `'
`
end

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 05:21:32 1997
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From: GlasCrafts@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 08:20:59 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.32059.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-04-01 08:21:26 EST, Darlene wrote:

<< Does anyone know of a supplier for the cardboard
 or plastic backs for picture frames?  The kind
 with an arm on a hinge so that the frame can
 stand by itself. >>
 
Glass Crafters stocks black matboard easel backs with an extra-long folding
leg in 4 photo sizes, specifically for making stained glass picture frames.
 Please call toll free for pricing or a catalog.
Glass Crafters Stained Glass
1-800-422-4552
FAX: 1-941-379-8827
GlasCrafts@aol.com
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 06:34:53 1997
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From: melinton@alison.sbc.edu
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: frame-making book
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:28:10 -0500
Message-ID: <l03020701af681b05cb60@[198.28.38.107]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jerri--
I'd be willing to buy your book on making stained-glass frames from you for
half price or something. I thought it was interesting when you said you
regretted buying the book because you didn't like the patterns. I feel
exactly the same way about several of the how-to books I've gotten.

In fact, if anyone is interested, I'd like to sell a few of the books I've
bought. I've got a few on mosaic stepping stones and one on angels. I
bought them to learn the techniques but hated the patterns so they are
unused as far as the eye can tell. If any would like me to post the titles
just let me know.

We could really help each other out this way and recover some money on
"used" books. I'll take half price for the ones I'm offering.
--Liz

You only need two things in life;
WD-40 to make things go faster & duct tape to make them stop.


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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 06:42:09 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: iridized ripple glass
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 09:38:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.43827.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.195620.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

George and Gloria wrote:
> 
> To Mike Savad,
> Somehow I lost your e mail on the iridized ripple glass.  The ripple
> that I have that is iridized on both sides is definitely  Kokomo. I had
> purchassed some from  Sunshine Glass and the remainder I purchased from
> a retail Glasss shop that closed.. there is still one sheet from an
> unknown source- bought from a bargain bin that is wider than the Kokomo.
> This glass is in a true yellow, iridized on both sides that makes a
> great flower part and a fairy wing..  The Kokomo glass seems to be a
> light cathedral glass- pink, grey, light blue or clear... Like you, when
> I went to a local store and wanted a true green or a nice red, the
> iridized was only on the side that was flat and not rippled.
> I recently feel that there is a lot of stores, wholesale, manufacturers
> that are on this line, and maybe might consider manufacturing a glass
> that is iridized on the ripple side versus the solid side. I know that I
> would buy it...
> 
> Also, to the other bungi line people,
> I am realy looking forward to the photos from Elizabeth and the Chartres
> tour group. Like you all, i am very envious.
> Elizabeth, Please give Toby a great hug.. I recently lost my Paris (14
> years) and that hug I will never give again. Their lives are too short.
> Love,
> Gloria
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i think some of the companies don't see the "other side" of stained
glass. usaully there trying to make the glass look old, copying tiffany.
where as alot of stained glass is more "common", pixies, boxes, etc. i
would love to have some double sided irridescent. i've also wanted
flourescent colored glass, not sure how that would be done, but it would
be neat. there's about another dozen or so colors i've always wanted as
well.

as for the ripple, i think i have that kokomo ripple, i'll have to
check. though i thought that was spectrum, that's why this new stuff
threw me off.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 06:48:07 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: restoration of lead
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 09:44:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.44423.0>
References: <<199704020253.MAA19030@chris.acay.com.au>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

john stout wrote:
> 
> Hello to all.
> 
> I have been doing stained glass in lead for about three years.
> I have been asked by somebody to try to fix their leaded window
> as the lead has become white from corrosion.  The glass and
> the putty is fine.
> 
> I attempted to clean with wire brush but it does not seen to even scratch
> the surface. The windows are surrounded in cedar and it really is
> too difficult to remove them from their frames (I did not make these
> windows)
> I wonder if there is some sort of wonder chemical I could use or
> if not how do I go about getting the came back to a shinny state.
> These windows were already in this condition when they were installed
> and these people didn't realize the extent of corrosion until they
> installed a window that I had made for them so I am confident that this
> will not happen again as they are protected from the elements.
> 
> I have learnt so much from you people and enjoy reading my mail
> daily.   thank you all.
> 
> Rosie.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


maybe that pizaz luster brush thing would work. or going over the lead
lines very carefully with a fine wire wheel in an electric drill.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 06:56:54 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 09:52:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.45254.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.184840.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have been doing glass for 8 years using a pencil grip, and can do it fine,
> but have prob w/ wrist (was broken twice yrs ago, and now have lots of pain &
> some swelling after cutting for hours). I just got my new pistol grip
> thinking that it would ease the affected spot (I am certain it will), but was
> using it today and felt like I was in outer space!! I could do the cuts, but
> was slipping a bit, and found myself using my "old faithful" for the
> intracate pcs. My question is has anyone had problems with control and do you
> switch from pencil to pistol for various pcs? Will I ever have the same
> control? I know, I just got the thing today, but it just has me wondering,
> and I just feel like one of my students now!!!
> Any input for this topic will be greatly appreciated. I can feel the
> difference in my wrist already after just cutting for a couple hrs, and NO
> PAIN!! Should I just go and use both, reserving the pencil for only when
> truly necessary? And no, I have not been using too much pressure on cuts.
> Thanks to all................Kristina
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i guess it would depend on how you gripped the pencil type. i've always
held it overhand like holding a sausage so i can cut it. i wonder if you
got one of those carpal tunnel wrist strap things, the kind that holds
your wrist in one position, for the pencil type. i never really got used
to the pistol grip. i've used it only when i need extra pressure on a
piece, or if i need a spare. i think it's a pain to use because most if
not all of them have a swivel head; i personally find that annoying.
i've always used it without a swivel. when it swivels, it's supposed to
make you not move your arm so much. but since the cutter does move, when
you go to that tight curve, your arm goes in to motion, but the cutter
head remains straight; until it runs into the stop.

i guess you would have to either figure out a position to hold onto the
pencil type, so it does'nt hurt, and does'nt spread a ton of oil onto
the glass. :)  practice using the pistol type. exercise that wrist and
get it stronger. or change the order how you work. instead of cutting
all your pieces at once, cut some, grind some, then foil some. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 07:03:19 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass photographs
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 09:59:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.4598.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.15260.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Bonnie Clark wrote:
> 
> I would like to know how you take those beautiful photographs of your
> stained glass without getting the reflection of the flash to show up on
> the glass. My camera is one of those fancy ones that determines whether
> it needs to flash or not so I can't turn it off.  Does it make a
> difference on inside and outside light if it is hanging in a window?
> Should I be taking the pictures straight on or at an angle or will that
> prevent the flashback on the glass?
> Bonnie Clark
> fishbait@televar.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well, i've always taken anything inside, at an angle, so there's less
chance of a flash spot. it depends on the piece. i've found putting a
neutral background like a sheet, for taking pictures of 3-d's,
suncatcher's, etc, works pretty well. if it's a panel i try to get a
through the window shot, but that tends to bleach out some of the solder
lines. 

though after i've made the pictures, all the ones that go online, i
photo retouch, removing flash spots, odd shadows, mismatched colors,
etc. 

all my pictures were taken from an IQ70 pentax automatic, i hav'nt tried
using my new IQ 160 on just glass yet...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 07:12:31 1997
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X-Path: mindspring.com!artglass
From: artglass@mindspring.com (Artistic Glass of Atlanta)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass photographs
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:15:41 -0400
Message-ID: <v01510100af68279a1711@[207.69.148.164]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Bonnie,
        Regarding photgraphing glass.  Try setting up your shots with a
tripod, before snapping the photos.  Also contact a local camera store and
ask about non-glare filters for your camera.
        Also I have had better results with 100 speed  film when
photographing glass, it is not so grainy.  It does require a brighter day,
however, or artificial light.

        Sincerely,


        Michael Delaware
        Michael@artisticglassusa.com



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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 07:16:09 1997
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X-Path: mindspring.com!artglass
From: artglass@mindspring.com (Artistic Glass of Atlanta)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Change to our website location
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:19:18 -0400
Message-ID: <v01510101af6828a85680@[207.69.148.111]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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To my Friends in Bungi-land,

        We recently changed the location of our website from:
www.mindspring.com/~artglass

        It is now:    www.artisticglassusa.com

        So to all of you who wrote me and told me you bookmarked our site,
please not e the change.

       Thanks,

        Michael



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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 07:19:37 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: taking photos of glass
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 10:18:56 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.51856.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

A few years ago we purchased a new flash for our 36mm camera that you can
tilt so the light is coming at your subject at a different angle  (not
straight on), eliminating glare & even the dreaded red eye!! It works
wonders- really. Any camera store should carry it. The photos I have done of
glass have come out just beautifully with the flash angled upwards just a
bit. Good luck.    Kristina
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 07:50:49 1997
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From: David Cansler <dcans@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Books 
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 10:48:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.54836.0>
References: <<l03020701af681b05cb60@[198.28.38.107]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> We could really help each other out this way and recover some money on
> "used" books. I'll take half price for the ones I'm offering.
> --Liz

I think that this sounds like an outstanding idea. I'm always looking
for different pattern books but it's just getting to the point that I
can't keep paying full price for something that I might never use. I've
been working in glass for over two years and own around 25-35 books, but
I think I've only used from 7-10 patterns from them. I can't seem to be
able to help myself every time I see one I think "Hey I might need a
pattern like that someday!" Oh well I guess I should be happy it could
be drugs or gambling. ;-)
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 08:00:45 1997
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From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 10:08:16 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.4816.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.13153.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Dawn,
>           Could you send me your compilation as well, I am just starting to
> do stepping stones and cannot ever read enough about any subject.
>                               Thanking you in advance,
>                                       Krissy         KrissyMar@aol.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Dawn, 
Could I please have a copy as well?  TYIA for all your efforts...  Linn
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 08:20:30 1997
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From: Tina & David Plummer <dplummer@ime.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Books
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 97 11:12:27 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.191227.0>
References: <<l03020701af681b05cb60@[198.28.38.107]>>
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Liz,
I would possibly be interested in the angel pattern book. 
You can e-mail me privately or through the group with 
particulars if you want.  Tina   e-mail 
dplummer@ime.net
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 08:38:36 1997
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From: karenro <karenro@newpig3.newpig.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: book exchange
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:31:06 -0500
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=New_Pig_Corporat%l=NEWPIG9-970402163106Z-12868@newpig9.newpig.com>
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Liz

I would like the names please and some info on content.

Thanks

>Karen Roberts      e-me at karenro@newpig.com
>
>Hi Jerri--
>I'd be willing to buy your book on making stained-glass frames from you
>for
>half price or something. I thought it was interesting when you said you
>regretted buying the book because you didn't like the patterns. I feel
>exactly the same way about several of the how-to books I've gotten.
>
>In fact, if anyone is interested, I'd like to sell a few of the books
>I've
>bought. I've got a few on mosaic stepping stones and one on angels. I
>bought them to learn the techniques but hated the patterns so they are
>unused as far as the eye can tell. If any would like me to post the
>titles
>just let me know.
>
>We could really help each other out this way and recover some money on
>"used" books. I'll take half price for the ones I'm offering.
>--Liz
>
>You only need two things in life;
>WD-40 to make things go faster & duct tape to make them stop.
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 08:38:50 1997
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From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 10:46:42 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.44642.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.201550.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

leestat7 wrote:
> 
> Hi Kristina,
> 
>  Just keep practicing with the pistol grip-it will get  just as
> easy as the pencil cutter.  Two things a morton surface/w
> the tiny turntable, Second wear a regular wrist brace  minimizing the wrist action.  

Krissy,

Let me second both of the above (after having had carpal tunnel surgery
on both hands) and add that you may want to adjust the height of your
cutting platform a little.  That was an additional thing that helped
me.  Linn
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 08:49:35 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Stepping Stones
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 08:44:32 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.04432.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Dawn 
Please asend me the stepping stone advice too.
Thank You
Bonnie Clark
fishbait@televar.com
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 09:21:53 1997
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:20:16 -0800
Message-ID: <199704021720.JAA32363@norm.island.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>Any input for this topic will be greatly appreciated. I can feel the
>difference in my wrist already after just cutting for a couple hrs, and NO
>PAIN!! Should I just go and use both, reserving the pencil for only when
>truly necessary? And no, I have not been using too much pressure on cuts.
>Thanks to all................Kristina

Hey Kristina,

I felt the same way a couple of years ago when I switched from the pistol
grip to the pencil type cutter.  It's just a matter of getting the knack of
it.  My experience is that I have better control with the pencil cutter.
I also agree with you that one feels like a beginner with a new tool...I
still haven't managed to master my foiler...

>From a healer's point of view, any chiropracter, massage therapist, etc.
will tell you that varying a position during repetitive movements will help
alleviate stress.  So, in your position, I think I would persevere with
learning the pistol grip and use both.  Perhaps cut for an hour with each
then switch to avoid stressing one group of muscles too much.

Cheers

Carol
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 09:22:42 1997
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From: SPRECHFAM@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Compilation of Archeive Notes on Stepping Stones & Mosiacs
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:21:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.7218.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Please send me a copy.  Thank you.

Lynda Sprecher
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 09:35:47 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:34:15 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.73415.0>
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Dawn,

May I please have a copy of your compilation too?  I'm just starting with
mosaics and stepping stones and have everything to learn!  Thank you!

SusieHUs@aol.com
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 09:45:13 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: frame-making book
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:43:49 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.74349.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Liz and all: 
    I am willing to purchase any used books, plese email me with titles &
prices to krissymar@aol.com           I am always looking for new ideas, and
have just started delving into stepping stones. Thanx-   Krissy
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 09:55:50 1997
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From: Tomi Reneau <reneau@fls.infi.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Undeliverable Mail for Tomi
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 12:58:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.75832.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.182938.0>>
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Hi...Was just about to let you know I hadn't received your
instructions!!  Then caught your note a few messages down.
Thanks for all your work and trouble.  Tomi
My e mail address is:
reneau@fls.infi.net
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 10:28:53 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: observation
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 97 10:26:02 -0500
Message-ID: <199704021826.KAA01185@kim.teleport.com>
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Perhaps it would have been more effective to post the compliation of the
mosaic stepping stone missive once to the entire list, as it seems to me I
have spent more time deleting EACH individual post requesting it than the
time required to delete the missive.

Just one person's observation!

enjoy................H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 10:57:13 1997
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From: Mike Barr <flowers@iAmerica.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 12:52:51 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.65251.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.184840.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Flowers Etc
Precedence: bulk

I switched to a pistol gripa couple years ago because it seemed to take
less effort to cut, but side to side wrist motion increased. Lately I
started using a thomas grip and find cutting with it is almost
effortless. It does'nt even seem like i'm putting and pressure at all 
This may be just the way I hold my hand & may different for each person
but I'm sold & my wrist never hurt, just looking for a faster way.
				Mike Barr
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 11:09:17 1997
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From: Tomi Reneau <reneau@fls.infi.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: frame-making book
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 14:13:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.9130.0>
References: <<l03020701af681b05cb60@[198.28.38.107]>>
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Good idea!  We all have books that didn't have quite what we were
looking for.  And who knows, what you don't want, I might.  Personally,
I wouldn't object to anyone posting their books at half price.  This is
a place to exchange info in all forms.....right?
Tomi
Fredericksburg, Va
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 11:13:49 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Cutters, round 2
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 14:13:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.91323.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

well, I thank you all  for all your great input & advice so far on my cutter
delimma, I will get the brace if I can find it- had one some time ago, but
lost in a move. I have just started using a new workbench so hopefully that
will help also.
But now my new problem, the cutter is a Toyo oil filled (my pencil grip is
same & used for 8 yrs constantly) but overnite it leaked out almost all the
fluid through the head. When I called the place where purchased(mail order) I
was told I would just have to dip it in oil to use it and never mind
reserve!!! I was given the number to Toyo importer, and and pretty much told
"deal with it, we won't"( this cutter was just rec'd yeaterday, mind you) 
Now besides me steaming at the lack of customer service from such a large
place, I am now wondering if Toyo quality is really as bad as they made it
seem, has it slipped that much in 8 years? Anyone else have similar problems
with ANY oil filled cutter? And what are my chances of getting a non
defective product? 

You know, I could have my choice of 1000 items of the same thing, and I will
ALWAYS end up with the only broken one in the lot! Same with restaraunts- I
ALWAYS end up sitting at the only place setting with dirty silverware! Is
this a curse or something? :)
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 13:02:42 1997
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From: bashful <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:54:29 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.75429.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.91323.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Heretics United
Precedence: bulk

KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:
<Major Snip> 
 Anyone else have similar problems
> with ANY oil filled cutter? And what are my chances of getting a non
> defective product?

I personally don't like thumbrest and pistol grips, but the pencil type
Toyo I have does have an oil resevior. The screw/cap that goes in the
fill hole is supposed to control the oil flow, and should have a rubber
O ring. Is it missing on yours? If it's there, is the screw tightened
down? 
 
> You know, I could have my choice of 1000 items of the same thing, and I will
> ALWAYS end up with the only broken one in the lot! Same with restaraunts- I
> ALWAYS end up sitting at the only place setting with dirty silverware! Is
> this a curse or something? :)

Not to minimize your frustration, but I think we all feel that way
sometimes. I have thought of myself as a cartoon character from the old
Lil' Abner comic strip - Joe Bltsflk. He was this character that had a
storm cloud hanging over his head, and disaster always followed.
Fortunately, I have seen other people I know going through the same type
of travails - keep your chin up - tommorrow it will be someone else's
turn.
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 14:04:00 1997
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From: George and Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: iridized ripple glass
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 17:06:57 -0100
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.16657.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.43827.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:

You are right.. I think that the glass manufacturers should consider
new  project ideas.. Yes, it is nice to have the Tiffany styles, but it
was Louis Comfort that went to the manufacturers and had them make the
glass he wanted..

In researching your glass, I think I found a burgundy cathedral.. I
always wanted  to match the burgundy that Spectrum burgundy  baroque
had.. Think I will place an order in the next few days for it.. 
Take care,
Gloria
> 
> George and Gloria wrote:
> >
> > To Mike Savad,
> > Somehow I lost your e mail on the iridized ripple glass.  The ripple
> > that I have that is iridized on both sides is definitely  Kokomo. I had
> > purchassed some from  Sunshine Glass and the remainder I purchased from
> > a retail Glasss shop that closed.. there is still one sheet from an
> > unknown source- bought from a bargain bin that is wider than the Kokomo.
> > This glass is in a true yellow, iridized on both sides that makes a
> > great flower part and a fairy wing..  The Kokomo glass seems to be a
> > light cathedral glass- pink, grey, light blue or clear... Like you, when
> > I went to a local store and wanted a true green or a nice red, the
> > iridized was only on the side that was flat and not rippled.
> > I recently feel that there is a lot of stores, wholesale, manufacturers
> > that are on this line, and maybe might consider manufacturing a glass
> > that is iridized on the ripple side versus the solid side. I know that I
> > would buy it...
> >
> > Also, to the other bungi line people,
> > I am realy looking forward to the photos from Elizabeth and the Chartres
> > tour group. Like you all, i am very envious.
> > Elizabeth, Please give Toby a great hug.. I recently lost my Paris (14
> > years) and that hug I will never give again. Their lives are too short.
> > Love,
> > Gloria
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> i think some of the companies don't see the "other side" of stained
> glass. usaully there trying to make the glass look old, copying tiffany.
> where as alot of stained glass is more "common", pixies, boxes, etc. i
> would love to have some double sided irridescent. i've also wanted
> flourescent colored glass, not sure how that would be done, but it would
> be neat. there's about another dozen or so colors i've always wanted as
> well.
> 
> as for the ripple, i think i have that kokomo ripple, i'll have to
> check. though i thought that was spectrum, that's why this new stuff
> threw me off.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
>  - The Creative Process
>  - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
>  - Picking Out Glass in the Store
> 
>  - Plus New Photos
>  - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
>  - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
>  - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden
> 
>  - But That's Not All!!!
>  - My Links Page is UP!
>  - And Awards Page Too
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 14:42:38 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 17:38:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.123841.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.91323.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:
> 
> well, I thank you all  for all your great input & advice so far on my cutter
> delimma, I will get the brace if I can find it- had one some time ago, but
> lost in a move. I have just started using a new workbench so hopefully that
> will help also.
> But now my new problem, the cutter is a Toyo oil filled (my pencil grip is
> same & used for 8 yrs constantly) but overnite it leaked out almost all the
> fluid through the head. When I called the place where purchased(mail order) I
> was told I would just have to dip it in oil to use it and never mind
> reserve!!! I was given the number to Toyo importer, and and pretty much told
> "deal with it, we won't"( this cutter was just rec'd yeaterday, mind you)
> Now besides me steaming at the lack of customer service from such a large
> place, I am now wondering if Toyo quality is really as bad as they made it
> seem, has it slipped that much in 8 years? Anyone else have similar problems
> with ANY oil filled cutter? And what are my chances of getting a non
> defective product?
> 
> You know, I could have my choice of 1000 items of the same thing, and I will
> ALWAYS end up with the only broken one in the lot! Same with restaraunts- I
> ALWAYS end up sitting at the only place setting with dirty silverware! Is
> this a curse or something? :)
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i have a toyo pistol grip, it leaked all the oil. that's alot of oil. i
personally don't trust toyo much. i find there hard to hold on to, and
of course the oil leakage problem. my fletcher terry has been working
fine for over 10 years now. my score master 3 cracked. i scaned it in,
and wrote them a semi-nasty note, and got a new cutter in exchange. you
could do the same, and throw in the part about the customer service,
needing improvement. it's not like it's wrong or anything, toyo should
know how it's product works in the field. i know once my grandfather
complained to a cracker company, saying he was missing a row of
crackers. it was'nt a very nice note, but he got a case of crackers out
of it. it was a while ago though, now they would probably send out a
coupon for a new box.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 15:28:39 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: book exchange
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 18:24:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.132435.0>
References: <<c=US%a=_%p=New_Pig_Corporat%l=NEWPIG9-970402163106Z-12868@newpig9.newpig.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Liz

I would like the names please and some info on content, also I may be
able to use some of them

Thanks
Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 15:32:34 1997
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From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Leadless Solder
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 15:27:41 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.72741.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am pregnant, (thank God it's almost over) and I had just started up
doing glass again because I built a real cool shop in my garage. 
Needless to say, you connot use lead when expecting because of the birth
defects, retardation and such it causes in unborn children.  Also you
cannot use lead if you are gonna breastfeed which I intend on doing.  	
	I got a router, sander and a table saw for Christmas which my stomach
is too big to use these things but I felt it would be nice to have some
creative outlet while I am pregnant.  Probally won't have time after
she's born for much of anything.
	Anyway, does anyone use or know of a leadless solder?  I don't want to
go for another year without doing glass.

Help!
	Melissa
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 15:41:40 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 18:37:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.133738.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.73415.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Dawn,

May I please have a copy of your compilation too?  I admire all the hard
work I knew it must have taken to 'sift' the archives for this. I wonder
how hard it would be to attach a search engin to the main archives so if
one was interested in "patina", "mirror tiles", "picture frames", etc.
If Dave or Glenna is monitoring this maybe they could answer if it is
possible.

 Thank you!

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 15:51:34 1997
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X-Path: bridge.net!athena
From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters -- my toyo works fine
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 18:56:24 +0000
Message-ID: <199704022351.SAA17692@brickell.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have a Toyo pistol grip and it's worked perfectly for the year-plus 
that I've owned it.

Re: the supplier's unwillingness to help you: did you pay by credit 
card? I *always* pay by charge card, as they will sort out any 
dispute with a merchant and back the customer 100% (assuming the 
customer is right and you are!).

As for luck, I believe we make our own. I am entirely 
responsible for my entire experience of life. (Sometimes redundancy 
is necessary to make a point.)

May you know that your luck will be good always,

Cheers,

M.-J.


> KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:
> > 
> > well, I thank you all  for all your great input & advice so far on
> > my cutter delimma, I will get the brace if I can find it- had one
> > some time ago, but lost in a move. I have just started using a new
> > workbench so hopefully that will help also. But now my new
> > problem, the cutter is a Toyo oil filled (my pencil grip is same &
> > used for 8 yrs constantly) but overnite it leaked out almost all
> > the fluid through the head. When I called the place where
> > purchased(mail order) I was told I would just have to dip it in
> > oil to use it and never mind reserve!!! I was given the number to
> > Toyo importer, and and pretty much told "deal with it, we won't"(
> > this cutter was just rec'd yeaterday, mind you) Now besides me
> > steaming at the lack of customer service from such a large place,
> > I am now wondering if Toyo quality is really as bad as they made
> > it seem, has it slipped that much in 8 years? Anyone else have
> > similar problems with ANY oil filled cutter? And what are my
> > chances of getting a non defective product?
> > 
> > You know, I could have my choice of 1000 items of the same thing,
> > and I will ALWAYS end up with the only broken one in the lot! Same
> > with restaraunts- I ALWAYS end up sitting at the only place
> > setting with dirty silverware! Is this a curse or something? :)

M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails. (Unknown)

 
                                              |\                ( )
 _____________________________________________|_\_____________________
                                              -----             -_-_
                                                               -- - -
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 15:53:06 1997
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X-Path: gunnison.com!debbi
From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 16:55:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.9552.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.2453.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Me, too.  I have been looking at mosaics for a while, now, but have not
yet attempted.  Thanks for all your hard work and for sharing.

-Debi
debbi@gunnison.com
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 15:54:03 1997
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From: Joni Tornwall <glasqult@1st.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: compilation of notes on stepping stones
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 19:57:12 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.195712.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn, 

May I please also have a copy of your notes on stepping stones?  Thank
you for the time and effort you put into the collection.  I wonder if it
could be posted in the archives since so many people are interested. .
.   Thank you, Joni

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 15:55:33 1997
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From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 23:56:48 GMT
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19980402190137.37975392@mailp.starnetinc.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>I have been doing glass for 8 years using a pencil grip, and can do it fine,
>but have prob w/ wrist (was broken twice yrs ago, and now have lots of pain &
>some swelling after cutting for hours). I just got my new pistol grip
>thinking that it would ease the affected spot (I am certain it will), but was
>using it today and felt like I was in outer space!! I could do the cuts, but
>was slipping a bit, and found myself using my "old faithful" for the
>intracate pcs. My question is has anyone had problems with control and do you
>switch from pencil to pistol for various pcs? Will I ever have the same
>control? I know, I just got the thing today, but it just has me wondering,
>and I just feel like one of my students now!!! 

I bought a pistol and a Thomas after using a brassbarrel Toyo for years... I
have arthritis in my fingers... some difficulty with my wrists at times
also. The pistol took alittle practice, but the Thomas has supplanted both.
I rely on it for almost all of my work, but I use the barrel for certain
cuts and the pistol for long pass cuts. Wouldn't part with any of them <G>.

Paula
pjnjril@ngai.com

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 15:57:22 1997
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From: Mike Barr <flowers@iAmerica.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 17:53:38 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.115338.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.72741.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Flowers Etc
Precedence: bulk

Gauther makes a lead free solder, 95% tin,1% silver,& 4% copper,
takes a little getting used to but works OK
You can also get an organic flux made by LB Allen Co., 
A thick liquid, non hazardous. 
Your local supplier should be able to get these for you, but they are
sometimes scarce. I ordered a case the other day from Houston Stained
Glass and am getting one bottle of the flux. The solder is easier.
			Mike Barr 
			Flowers Etc
			Metairie, La
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 16:01:58 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 18:57:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.135758.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.91323.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Just a user problem ;)

There is an adjustment knob (also where you fill it) on the back, if
that is not closed tight enough, the oil will run out.  I have a Toyo
Pistol grip too, and just had to 'play with the adjustment. You don't
need a wrench either, just finger tight.  Put the cutter in a small
glass or plastic jar, cutting end down, with a pad made of paper towel
on the bottom.  I then pour in enough oil to wet the pad generously. 
When you need to dispense more oil in a cut, loosen the knob, when you
are done tighten again, and place back in the jar. Works just fine. 
When I have a very difficult piece of glass, I even dip it in the oil
bottle to get alot of oil for that cut.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:
> But now my new problem, the cutter is a Toyo oil filled (my pencil grip is
> same & used for 8 yrs constantly) but overnite it leaked out almost all the
> fluid through the head.
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 16:04:45 1997
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From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 00:06:02 GMT
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19980402191050.087f852a@mailp.starnetinc.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>But now my new problem, the cutter is a Toyo oil filled (my pencil grip is
>same & used for 8 yrs constantly) but overnite it leaked out almost all the
>fluid through the head. 

I was warned about the leaking <s> and so never filled. I do fill the others
and neither the Thomas or the brassbarrel leak, so I guess it's something
about the pistol alone. 

Paula
pjnjril@ngai.com

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 16:24:10 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Books 
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 19:23:38 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.142338.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Liz,
It's ashame we could not form some type of library system, where we could
borrow each other's books!  I have checked the public library many times,
much to my dismay, to find not 1 book on stained glass.  I am interested
though, on purchasing books at 50% off--an offer I can't refuse.
Eleanor (YIGNIM@aol,com)

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 16:29:24 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 19:28:48 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.192848.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.112520.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> We set up a web page to show the Bungi group what we can't explain in an
> e-mail:
> http://www.warner-criv.com/bungi/
> You will find picture frames there now.
> 

I guess that by now everyone knows how much I love this store, so I
won't bore you with any more of that. However, this immediate solution
to an immediate problem is a pretty swell idea, and having a picture and
a price list is the cherry on top!

Hilary
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 16:50:17 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Books
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 16:44:54 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.84454.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I too am interested in any used books that anyone has available for
purchase.  Would like to see a list of what is available and at what
prices.  
     If people are willing to part with them maybe some type of library
with mail-out check out services could even be possible so many could
benefit from them.  I guess there would need to be a collection site for
them and someone willing to do the mailing and perhaps a charge
administered to cover mailing costs.  Just a thought, but maybe it is a
possibility.
                           Bonnie Clark
                           fishbait@televar.com
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 17:46:17 1997
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From: Mike & Amy Murphy <mamurphy@techline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: cutters
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 17:44:13 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970403014413.00660538@mail.techline.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I also have a Toyo Pistol Grip cutter, love it and but have also had
problems with too much oil leaking out and the pattern pieces just slip
right off when grinding(especially on those tiny pieces). I stuffed my
cutter full of cotton and then filled partially full of oil.  The oil
doesn't come out in mass quanities. I also store and dip my cutter in a baby
food jar with oil and padding in the bottom.  Works great.
Amy 
Mike and Amy Murphy

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 17:59:31 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 20:55:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.155534.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.72741.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

RThaxton@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> I am pregnant, (thank God it's almost over) and I had just started up
> doing glass again because I built a real cool shop in my garage.
> Needless to say, you connot use lead when expecting because of the birth
> defects, retardation and such it causes in unborn children.  Also you
> cannot use lead if you are gonna breastfeed which I intend on doing.
>         I got a router, sander and a table saw for Christmas which my stomach
> is too big to use these things but I felt it would be nice to have some
> creative outlet while I am pregnant.  Probally won't have time after
> she's born for much of anything.
>         Anyway, does anyone use or know of a leadless solder?  I don't want to
> go for another year without doing glass.
> 
> Help!
>         Melissa
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

they do have a lead less solder, but i think there are other deadly
chemicals in it. i suppos you could do mosiacs. the type with plate
glass behind it.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 18:03:33 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters -- my toyo works fine
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 20:59:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.155937.0>
References: <<199704022351.SAA17692@brickell.bridge.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M.-J. wrote:
> 
> I have a Toyo pistol grip and it's worked perfectly for the year-plus
> that I've owned it.
> 
> Re: the supplier's unwillingness to help you: did you pay by credit
> card? I *always* pay by charge card, as they will sort out any
> dispute with a merchant and back the customer 100% (assuming the
> customer is right and you are!).
> 
> As for luck, I believe we make our own. I am entirely
> responsible for my entire experience of life. (Sometimes redundancy
> is necessary to make a point.)


maybe, maybe not, if your house is the only house that keeps getting
pelted with frozen urine from the heavens above; then i'd re-think the
idea.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 18:59:24 1997
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From: Jim Campbell <knowitall@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 22:39:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.173947.0>
References: <<1997Apr1.191139.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

robert crane wrote:
> 
> Dawn wrote:
> >
> > Charles, Diane, Mary, Tomi, Meg, Mary Archibald, Carol, Scott, and Jane,
> >
> > First of all, I apologize for posting this to the entire group, but I wan=
> > t to make sure I do not inadvertently leave someone out who corresponded =
> > with me regarding my file on stepping stones and mosaics.
> >
> > I have sent each of you listed above an ASCII text file of all the notes =
> > on stepping stones and mosaics that I pulled off of the archives.  This =
> > includes all archives on the site (from inception of Bungi through the =
> > end of February, 1997--March's were not posted yet).  If you for some rea=
> > son do not get my message, please let me know.
> >
> > Darlene and M.J., will you please send me your e-mail addresses and I wil=
> > l send it to you also?  If there is anyone else who requested it and I =
> > overlooked their request, please be sure to let me know.
> >
> > Dawn
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> Thank you very much for your kind offer. It must have involved much work
> for you and it is very kind of you to share. Please forward information
> concerning your compilation to me. Thank you in anticipation
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassDawn,

Please include me in your list of people that you are sending the 
archives on mosaics to.

Thanks,
Roseanne
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 19:36:25 1997
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From: OO-Zero <boogs@netbiz.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 02:29:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb23.21290.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.72741.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I just got finished a project in which I used lead-free solder..which is
95% tin/5% antimony.  It was a pain to use.  The melting point of the
solder was near that of the came I was using, it was a mess.  As for you
worrying about lead contamination...my grandfather has been doing stain
glass for 20 or so years, and being a doctor, he too was worried about
working with lead.  He went and got a blood test to see what the lead
levels were, and they were normal.  As long as you wash your hands
before you eat or do anything that would cause lead to get into your
system, you should be fine.  One more problem with lead-free solderis
that it is a little more expensive too.
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 20:42:27 1997
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From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Leadless Solder
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 20:36:06 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.12366.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for all your input everyone.  I guess I'll just go back to
counted cross stitch and wait till I'm finished with breastfeeding
before I do glass again.  I can always make patterns and dream!  

     I actually feel like I am starting labor tonite.  Last time with my
daughter I started Saturday night at around 6:00 pm and finally had her
at 9:04 pm Monday night Ugh!  Thats what I get for not walking! I at
least hope that the labor time with this child will be cut in half!!
Pleeeeeeeeeeze!
                   Melissa
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 23:02:32 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 02:01:01 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.2111.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I switched from pencil to pistol awhile ago.  When I first did, I probably
had the same trouble you did and I gave up for a while.  Then I went back and
tried the pistol again and now that I've gotten acustomed to it, I wouldn't
go back.  Just give it some time.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  2 23:17:39 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Toyo Cutters
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 02:16:58 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.211658.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

<<  Toyo oil filled (my pencil grip is
 same & used for 8 yrs constantly) but overnite it leaked out almost all the
 fluid through the head.  >>


The Emerald Rainbow people devised the cutter cap specifically for the Toyo
and its leaking problems.  Two of the wholesalers I deal with have dropped
the line altogether probably for the very reasons of customer satisfaction
you describe.  Personally, I have Fletcher pistol cutters which I'm quite
happy with.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 01:31:43 1997
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@lobo.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Wrist pain
Summary: Authenticated sender is <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 02:34:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199704030931.BAA07572@ns2.walltech.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have had carpal-tunnel off and on for 15 years, as I was a 
mechanic, then moved tocomputers and then to glass.  Last time if 
flared up, I mentioned it to my chiropractor, and she went snip 
click, twist crunch, and the pain went away.

Most people thinkof chiro's only for the back, but there is much they 
can do for the hands and feet, if asked.
Blessed Be

Myrddn

Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity!


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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 01:34:34 1997
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: KrissyMar@aol.com,
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Summary: Authenticated sender is <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 02:39:00 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

On  2 Apr 97, KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:



>  Anyone else have similar problems with ANY oil
> filled cutter? And what are my chances of getting a non defective
> product? 
> 
my Toyo pencil doesn't run out except when I am cutting. Then it 
leaves a think line of oil onthe glass when has to be cleaned before 
cutting. What do you use for oil?
Blessed Be

Myrddn

Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity!


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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 03:09:42 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 06:09:06 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.196.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Melissa,
I am so sympathetic to your plight!  As a mother of 2, I know what pregnancy
is about and it's bad enough that you must give up minor things, but glass
too!!!  Mike had a good idea about mosaics and I just received a new pattern
for a mirror with no soldering involved, complete with instructions which I
would be more than happy to send you, if you are interested.  I read that it
is not just the fumes from the solder which are dangerous, but the fumes from
the flux. Do you by any chance have a friend who does glass nearby?  If so,
perhaps you could do a bartering system whereby she solders and you get to
use your new equipment and score glass, etc.  If you live anywhere near me,
Phila., PA, I would be more than happy to oblige you.
Eleanor (YEGNIM@aol.com)

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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 03:16:37 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 06:16:11 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.11611.0>
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I have had a Toyo for 9 years now and have never had a leak!  Guess I got one
of the good ones.  I did however have a problem with the oil not flowing and
I was told to take off the cap and let air in then return the cap.
 Afterwhich the problem was alleviated.  Apparantly a vacuum was built up
inside and it needed to be released.

By the way, had anyone heard of a crystal starting a fire???  I am referring
to the tiny crystals that are used as decorations on hearts and suncatchers
or panels.  They hang down to accent a certain part of a piece and someone
mentioned that she heard that someone had sold a piece with a crystal and was
sued for the fire.  What do you guys think?
Eleanor

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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 03:18:38 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com, KrissyMar@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 06:18:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.11812.0>
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I use sewing machine oil, in my pistol cutter (Toyo) and it has always worked
fine.
Eleanor

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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 03:54:20 1997
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To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Off Mailing List!!
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 18:57:12 -0500
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Please take us off of your email recipient list we are getting spammed
heavily!!!  Thanx for your cooperation.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 04:01:56 1997
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From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 07:01:00 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.210.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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In a message dated 97-04-02 20:21:30 EST, you write:

<< here is an adjustment knob (also where you fill it) on the back, if
 that is not closed tight enough, the oil will run out.  I have a Toyo
 Pistol grip too, and just had to 'play with the adjustment. You don't
 need a wrench either, just finger tight.  Put the cutter in a small
 glass or plastic jar, cutting end down, with a pad made of paper towel
 on the bottom.  I then pour in enough oil to wet the pad generously. 
 When you need to dispense more oil in a cut, loosen the knob, when you
 are done tighten again, and place back in the jar. Works just fine.  >>

Another possible solution is that if the wick is dry it will leak. I also put
mine cutter side down in a small dish with a cloth soaked in oil. I've had
mine for almost 3 years and only had a problem when I first got it, before
the wick was saturated with oil. I love my Toyo. I got a Fletcher and didn't
like it as much though they raved over it at the glass shop. I guess it's all
in what you're used to. :-)

Have a nice day,

Janet 
imn2glass@aol.com
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 04:14:49 1997
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From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 07:14:18 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.21418.0>
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In a message dated 97-04-02 23:45:03 EST, you write:

<<   I actually feel like I am starting labor tonite.  Last time with my
 daughter I started Saturday night at around 6:00 pm and finally had her
 at 9:04 pm Monday night Ugh!  Thats what I get for not walking! I at
 least hope that the labor time with this child will be cut in half!!
 Pleeeeeeeeeeze!
                    Melissa >>

Hey everyone, we're having a baby!!!!!!!!! :-)
Let us know if we're Aunts or Uncles. <G>

Janet
IMN2GLASS@AOL.COM
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 05:57:54 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Wrist pain
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 08:53:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.35340.0>
References: <<199704030931.BAA07572@ns2.walltech.com>>
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I too have had wrist adjustments, and it works.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Myrddn wrote:
> 
> I have had carpal-tunnel off and on for 15 years, as I was a
> mechanic, then moved tocomputers and then to glass.  Last time if
> flared up, I mentioned it to my chiropractor, and she went snip
> click, twist crunch, and the pain went away.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 06:02:45 1997
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From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 05:57:27 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.215727.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.196.0>>
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Yegnim@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Melissa,
> I am so sympathetic to your plight!  As a mother of 2, I know what pregnancy
> is about and it's bad enough that you must give up minor things, but glass
> too!!!  Mike had a good idea about mosaics and I just received a new pattern
> for a mirror with no soldering involved, complete with instructions which I
> would be more than happy to send you, if you are interested.  I read that it
> is not just the fumes from the solder which are dangerous, but the fumes from
> the flux. Do you by any chance have a friend who does glass nearby?  If so,
> perhaps you could do a bartering system whereby she solders and you get to
> use your new equipment and score glass, etc.  If you live anywhere near me,
> Phila., PA, I would be more than happy to oblige you.
> Eleanor (YEGNIM@aol.com)
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Thanks Yegnim!
     I am not sure if I am cut out (ha ha) to do mosaics.  I would
however be interested in your patern to see if it would be somthing I
could do.  Thanks for the input.  by the way I'm in Northern California.
Not too close unfortunatly, and I really don't have anyone around that
does glass but me.  
Thanks again,
              Melissa
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 06:03:20 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:RThaxton@ix.netcom.com" <RThaxton@ix.netcom.com>,
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: 03 Apr 97 08:56:50 EST
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.135650.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I would stay away from anything which involved soldering.  However, you might
want to do the stained glass mosaics during this time.  No soldering.  No
chemicals.  Safe (as things go in stained glass), and very much in vogue right
now.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 06:04:37 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Myrddn 
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 08:59:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.35946.0>
References: <<199704030931.BAA07572@ns2.walltech.com>>
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Thanks for send pronunciation of your name Myrddn, beautiful, you picked
a good one. Good luck on the rebuilding of your  light table.  I just
realizied I need a larger one too, am working on a 24" x 40" panel,so
will be building one too-One more 'round-tuit'  <g>

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 06:07:49 1997
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From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 06:02:06 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr2.2226.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.21418.0>>
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IMN2GLASS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-04-02 23:45:03 EST, you write:
> 
> <<   I actually feel like I am starting labor tonite.  Last time with my
>  daughter I started Saturday night at around 6:00 pm and finally had her
>  at 9:04 pm Monday night Ugh!  Thats what I get for not walking! I at
>  least hope that the labor time with this child will be cut in half!!
>  Pleeeeeeeeeeze!
>                     Melissa >>
> 
> Hey everyone, we're having a baby!!!!!!!!! :-)
> Let us know if we're Aunts or Uncles. <G>
> 
> Janet
> IMN2GLASS@AOL.COM
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Well I've been having semi painful contractions all night but I think
that it will be tommorrow (Friday) before I POP!  My husband has been in
an aweful mood which I hope he snaps out of or it will be a rough trip
down labor lane, and you know how nasty you can get when having a baby.
I'll keep everyone posted......Melissa -;)
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 06:47:09 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: stepping stones
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 09:51:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199704031446.JAA10417@brickell.bridge.net>
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Dawn,

I certainly don't mean to be a nag, but I'm wondering if I forgot to 
reply to this ... I *recall* replying twice. Perhaps you're just 
deluged with requests for your file.

In any case, I thank you for your work in compiling the archive in 
advance and look forward to seeing it.

:D

M.-J.
athena@bridge.net


> Darlene and M.J.,
> 
> Would you mind sending me your e-mail address so I can send a copy
> of my = file to you directly?
> 
>     Dawn
> 
> dawnm@mail.fidnet.com
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To
> send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives
> available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails. (Unknown)

 
                                              |\                ( )
 _____________________________________________|_\_____________________
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 07:29:46 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 10:25:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.52524.0>
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Myrddn wrote:
> 
> On  2 Apr 97, KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >  Anyone else have similar problems with ANY oil
> > filled cutter? And what are my chances of getting a non defective
> > product?
> >
> my Toyo pencil doesn't run out except when I am cutting. Then it
> leaves a think line of oil onthe glass when has to be cleaned before
> cutting. What do you use for oil?
> Blessed Be
> 
> Myrddn

generally a real good cutter, should'nt leave much oil on the glass.
it's mainly there to lubricate the wheel, and keep glass chips from
cloging it. though it never hurts to run your thumb over the wheel every
so often, just to make sure the wheel is still moving.

---Mike Savad



-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 07:34:56 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 10:31:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.53115.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.11611.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Yegnim@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have had a Toyo for 9 years now and have never had a leak!  Guess I got one
> of the good ones.  I did however have a problem with the oil not flowing and
> I was told to take off the cap and let air in then return the cap.
>  Afterwhich the problem was alleviated.  Apparantly a vacuum was built up
> inside and it needed to be released.
> 
> By the way, had anyone heard of a crystal starting a fire???  I am referring
> to the tiny crystals that are used as decorations on hearts and suncatchers
> or panels.  They hang down to accent a certain part of a piece and someone
> mentioned that she heard that someone had sold a piece with a crystal and was
> sued for the fire.  What do you guys think?
> 
> Eleanor
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah it was in the stained glass buisness book, where someone bought a
suncatcher with a bevel in it. and the sun focused through the prism of
the bevel, and the curtain cought fire. something you rally could'nt
plan ahead for, who would have known. for the future they resolved that
it should have had two bevels one on top of the other (like a small ufo
shape). my guess would be that a dangling heart should be safe. because
#1 the facets are real small, and they'd always be moving the light
around.  #2 they may spin a bit, so any of the focused light would
scatter it turned.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 08:24:43 1997
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From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 08:24:03 PST
Message-ID: <m0wCpIz-0001TqC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "Re: Leadless Solder" on Apr  3,  5:57, RThaxton@ix.netcom.com writes:]
> Yegnim@aol.com wrote:

> > the flux. Do you by any chance have a friend who does glass nearby?  If so,
> > perhaps you could do a bartering system whereby she solders and you get to
> > use your new equipment and score glass, etc.  If you live anywhere near me,
> > Phila., PA, I would be more than happy to oblige you.
> > Eleanor (YEGNIM@aol.com)


> could do.  Thanks for the input.  by the way I'm in Northern California.
> Not too close unfortunatly, and I really don't have anyone around that
> does glass but me.  

Where in N.California?  I'm in San Jose



-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 08:45:16 1997
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From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 11:43:39 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.64339.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-04-03 11:00:14 EST, you write:

<< generally a real good cutter, should'nt leave much oil on the glass.
 it's mainly there to lubricate the wheel, and keep glass chips from
 cloging it. though it never hurts to run your thumb over the wheel every
 so often, just to make sure the wheel is still moving.
 
 ---Mike Savad >>

I thought that the oil helped seperate the ions (or something like that) so
that the glass would break better. I saw that on a video I watched on how to
do leaded glass. They said you needed the oil on the glass. Not too much of
course, but have you ever cut a line and not broken it right away. Doesn't
break very well. 

Janet Farrington
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 09:05:18 1997
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From: Paul Deutsch <beermug@snowcrest.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 09:03:13 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <199704031703.JAA17374@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Melissa-where in Northern Ca?  So am I (Redding area) and if I can help, let
me know.  By the way, have you had the baby yet?  Good luck.

Sherry

You wrote:
Thanks Yegnim!
     I am not sure if I am cut out (ha ha) to do mosaics.  I would
however be interested in your patern to see if it would be somthing I
could do.  Thanks for the input.  by the way I'm in Northern California.
Not too close unfortunatly, and I really don't have anyone around that
does glass but me.  
Thanks again,
              Melissa
----



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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 09:07:16 1997
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X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy
From: bashful <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip - now lens effect
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 11:59:03 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.3593.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.11611.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Heretics United
Precedence: bulk

Yegnim@aol.com wrote:
 They hang down to accent a certain part of a piece and someone
> mentioned that she heard that someone had sold a piece with a crystal and was
> sued for the fire.  What do you guys think?
> Eleanor
I think anything transparent that can focus light can do this. Many
years ago, before OPEC, and Detroit built 'Muscle cars' there was a
Pontiac GTO model modified by the Hurst company that had a clear knob on
the floor shifter. There were reports of burnt seatcovers after the cars
were parked in the sun for a while. The clear shift knobs were soon
removed from production.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 09:10:06 1997
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X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm
From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 97 10:50:45 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.185045.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.72741.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Melissa,

I know they have a leadless solder for jewelry, etc. and I believe it is =
called "Evergleen".  Any of the major suppliers should carry it.  I reall=
y have no experience with it so I'll let those with more experience and =
knowledge jump in.

My real purpose of writing was to say "Congratulations!!!!!!"  

				Dawn

>	Anyway, does anyone use or know of a leadless solder?

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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 09:10:19 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!ANLGlass
From: ANLGlass@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: West Coast Lighthouse Series?
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 12:09:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.7940.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I was searching the Web, looking for pictures of lighthouses to use as the
starting
point for making a stained glass pattern.  I came across a reference to the
"West Coast Lighthouse Series", who was advertising working scale models of
lighthouses in stained glass.  Unfortunately the link doesn't work!  Now I'm
intrigued to see what this company makes.  Has anyone heard of them, or got
any leads into them?  It might be Canadian; I think the models were of
British
Columbia lighthouses.

Marilyn Kaminski
A New Light
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 09:10:49 1997
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X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm
From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: observation
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 97 11:11:39 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.191139.0>
References: <<199704021826.KAA01185@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Howard,

>From my standpoint, it would definitely have saved me time to post
the info. once to the entire group.  But, just recently, we were
asked to please not send attachments to the group because of
problems it creates on Bungi.  I am very grateful and appreciative
of the work that Glenna and Dave have done to provide all of us
a forum to exchange ideas, and the last thing I would want to do is
create more headaches for the Rand's.  

While it is a little work for me to send the info out individually (and a
little work for those who are uninterested to press the delete key) I 
feel it is well worth it to be able to be of assistance to someone else.
The positive side of this is that we have heard from some people
that do not contribute on a regular basis, and I enjoy getting the 
opportunity to "meet" these people. 

While I can understand your frustration with receiving so many 
messages that do not interest you, I want to respect the Rand's 
request.  In an attempt to alleviate your problem, I will request
that anyone who would like to contact me about my stepping
stone file, please e-mail me at dawnm@mail.fidnet.com.  How's that 
for a compromise!

Dawn


>Perhaps it would have been more effective to post the compliation of the
mosaic stepping stone missive once to the entire list,
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 09:14:17 1997
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From: ANLGlass@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: books
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 12:13:00 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.7130.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I think a book "buy-back" or exchange is a great idea.  Another source that
I've
had good luck with is used book stores.  I've found several books of stained
glass patterns and techniques for a few bucks each.  Some are really old;
lots
of fun to look at.  They're usually in the "art" or "craft" sections.

Marilyn Kaminski
A New Light
anlglass@aol.com
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 09:42:35 1997
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: why oil.....
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 97 09:40:22 -0500
Message-ID: <199704031741.JAA04867@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

so far only one sensible comment.

Fun to do a 9 repeat dragon-fly and have to wipe the glass after each cut 
each time, shop and fingers and glass and pattern smells of a petroleum
product.

If you have the NEED, URGE, DESIRE, or lack of courage to not fill the
cutter(s) to overflowing, how about a small shot of WD-40, or even just a
touch of machine or lubricating oil (3-1) on the wheel before you start to
"work".

I NEVER put any oil in the cutters, but alas and alack, I only seem to get a
few years out of a cutting head with daily use and abuse from "my" students.

Nuff from me...........H


--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 10:17:30 1997
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: West Coast Lighthouse Series?
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 13:19:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.81947.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Marilyn,

Don't know anything about your link (wish you had included it so I could 
look see for myself) but here are some nice ones I have found. The first 
two are particularly nice if you just want to see a variety of lighthouses. 
Please let us know if you have others.

Linda

http://www.compass-rose.com/compasso/compasso.html
http://www.compass-rose.com/compasso/compasso6.html
http://www.csionline.com/~wood/lh.htm
http://www.valuenetwork.com/business/wop13.html

Marilyn said:

I was searching the Web, looking for pictures of lighthouses to use as the
starting
point for making a stained glass pattern.  I came across a reference to the
"West Coast Lighthouse Series", who was advertising working scale models of
lighthouses in stained glass.  Unfortunately the link doesn't work!  Now 
I'm
intrigued to see what this company makes.  Has anyone heard of them, or got
any leads into them?  It might be Canadian; I think the models were of
British
Columbia lighthouses.


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`
end

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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 10:44:39 1997
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: West Coast Lighthouse Series?
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 13:46:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.84642.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

And a few more lighthouses in glass:

http://www.little-elegance.com/formavit/96east.htm
http://www.little-elegance.com/formavit/96west.htm

Linda

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`
end

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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 10:57:21 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wCrgk-0001gMa; Thu, 3 Apr 97 10:56 PST
X-Path: tiac.net!phil7
From: phil7 <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: why oil.....
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 13:56:36 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.55636.0>
References: <<199704031741.JAA04867@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hip, hip, hooray, Howard, well said and well learned

phil7




Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote:
> 
> -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> 
> so far only one sensible comment.
> 
> 
> If you have the NEED, URGE, DESIRE, or lack of courage to not fill the
> cutter(s) to overflowing, how about a small shot of WD-40, or even just a
> touch of machine or lubricating oil (3-1) on the wheel before you start to
> "work".
> 
> I NEVER put any oil in the cutters,
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 11:07:26 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!WLester380
From: WLester380@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 14:06:47 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.9647.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Melissa, Glenna, Sherry -
I'm also in No Cal, Fremont.  Let me know if I can help.
Bill
WLester380@aol.com
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 11:53:27 1997
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: West Coast Lighthouse Series?
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 14:54:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.95418.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Marilyn,

Try accessing west coast lighthouse series thru this web page:

http://www.erinet.com/grandio/shelmain.html

Linda

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M`+0+`06 `P`.````S0<$``,`#@`V`!(`! `U`0$@@ ,`#@```,T'! `#``X`
M-0`C``0`10$!"8 !`"$````U,#%$-$9%-#(R04-$,#$Q0D)%,# P1$0P,3$U
M.35#. `<!P$#D 8`H (``!(````+`",```````,`)@``````"P`I```````#
M`#8``````$ `.0#@#K;0:$"\`1X`< `!````(@```%)%.B!797-T($-O87-T
M($QI9VAT:&]U<V4@4V5R:65S/P````(!<0`!````&P````&\0%]?4^1/'4VL
M(A'0N^ `W0$5E<@``E8+T0`>`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````
M$@```&QC8F5L;$!M96UA8V@N8V]M`````P`&$$2[]PH#``<0:@```!X`"! !
M````90```$U!4DE,64XL5%)904-#15-324Y'5T535$-/05-43$E'2%1(3U53
M15-%4DE%4U1(4E542$E35T5"4$%'13I(5%10.B\O5U=715))3D540T]-+T=2
M04Y$24\O4TA%3$U!24Y(5$T``````@$)$ $````8`0``% $``,@!``!,6D9U
M1?5/:O\`"@$/`A4"J 7K`H,`4 +R"0(`8V@*P'-E=#(W!@`&PP*#,@/%`@!P
M<D)Q$>)S=&5M`H,S-P+D!Q,"@S0$1A,S,2!W"%4'L@*#-1$%%A,/WV;V-@/&
M%,5]"H (SPG9`H '"H$-L0M@;F<Q,#/?%% +"A5A"_ 58&,-X 708PK `Q!Y
M;BP*A0J%5.AR>2 `T&,'D "0'.!<('<'D 5 !:!A(2%L8&EG:'1H"& 1L"#/
M$; (@00@(?!R=2+!! ")(/%B( JP9V4Z'TR!(>!T<#HO+W<E4"HN!G%N$< N
M!:!M+P,)P !P9&EO+W-H+&5L`, +@"XAX&UL91],3 N 9&$*A1I1``$I< ,`
M$! ``````P`1$ ````! ``<P`/9WMVA O % ``@P`/9WMVA O $>`#T``0``
/``4```!213H@`````,RD
`
end

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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 12:12:18 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mirror Pattern without solder
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 15:10:18 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.101018.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 Melissa,
    Please send me your address as I do not know how to send a pattern on
e-mail or even if I have the capabilities.
    You can send it to me personally at my e-mail address:  yegnim@aol.com
and I will get it out to you a.s.a.p.
Eleanor    
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 12:35:40 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: contracts etc
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 15:33:59 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.103359.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-03-25 19:40:26 EST, you write:

<< With all due respect to your brother, Martin, I think you'll find 
 that it's all a bit more complicated than that ... and that the 
 artist/designer/craftsperson has a whole lot more protection  >>

I echo that sentiment, in my real job I work in the training 
business.  You can buy "output", e.g. training materials and
use those materials, but the company that sold them still
retains all copyrights and ownership.

There have been several recent court cases that have greatly 
extended the rules of copyright, a landmark decision 
involving Kinko's who was providing student materials at the
behest of a college professor.  This decision severely limited 
what could be freely copied.

While copyrights are difficult to enforce, the penalty can be
severe.



  
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 12:35:42 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: stepping stones & pricing
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 15:33:57 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.103357.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-03-26 16:00:29 EST, you write:

<< Also, any good ideas for items that can be used for molds? >>

I was thinking of using that flexible edging material usually applied
in gardens.  I figure you could make a variety of shapes with it.
Haven't tried it yet, so it's just an idea.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 14:31:39 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: stepping stones & pricing
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 15:33:10 -0600
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970403153310.00689cfc@busprod.com>
References: <<1997Apr3.103357.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 03:33 PM 4/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-03-26 16:00:29 EST, you write:
>
><< Also, any good ideas for items that can be used for molds? >>
>
>I was thinking of using that flexible edging material usually applied
>in gardens.  I figure you could make a variety of shapes with it.
>Haven't tried it yet, so it's just an idea.

I went to the "dollar" store and purchased plastic food containers for
about a dollar apiece in exactly the round, square, and rectangle shapes I
needed...they work great!
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 14:34:12 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 17:30:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.123021.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.64339.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

IMN2GLASS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-04-03 11:00:14 EST, you write:
> 
> << generally a real good cutter, should'nt leave much oil on the glass.
>  it's mainly there to lubricate the wheel, and keep glass chips from
>  cloging it. though it never hurts to run your thumb over the wheel every
>  so often, just to make sure the wheel is still moving.
> 
>  ---Mike Savad >>
> 
> I thought that the oil helped seperate the ions (or something like that) so
> that the glass would break better. I saw that on a video I watched on how to
> do leaded glass. They said you needed the oil on the glass. Not too much of
> course, but have you ever cut a line and not broken it right away. Doesn't
> break very well.
> 
> Janet Farrington
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i'm not sure, everyone has a different idea what it's for. but if the
wheel were to freeze up, the glass may not break as well. so the wheel
needs to roll across the surface. in any case it's best to keep it
lubricated, for maintenance reasons.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 14:40:13 1997
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From: George and Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass photographs
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 17:43:11 -0100
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.164311.0>
References: <<199704021052.FAA01993@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > I would like to know how you take those beautiful photographs of your
> > stained glass without getting the reflection of the flash to show up on
> > the glass.
> 
> Bonnie, as a photographer of glass of more than 25 years, I'll make
> one suggestion to you: never use a flash. Put your glass piece in
> natural light, use the slowest film you can find (Kodachrome 25, if
> you can find it), put the camera on a tripod and take long exposures
> to achieve full saturation of the exposure. You'll be very pleased
> with the results.

Thank you..
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
> _________________________________________________________
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 14:46:15 1997
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From: George and Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: frame-making book
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 17:49:16 -0100
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.164916.0>
References: <<l03020701af681b05cb60@[198.28.38.107]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

melinton@alison.sbc.edu wrote:
> 
> Hi Jerri--
> I'd be willing to buy your book on making stained-glass frames from you for
> half price or something. I thought it was interesting when you said you
> regretted buying the book because you didn't like the patterns. I feel
> exactly the same way about several of the how-to books I've gotten.
> 
> In fact, if anyone is interested, I'd like to sell a few of the books I've
> bought. I've got a few on mosaic stepping stones and one on angels. I
> bought them to learn the techniques but hated the patterns so they are
> unused as far as the eye can tell. If any would like me to post the titles
> just let me know.
> 
> We could really help each other out this way and recover some money on
> "used" books. I'll take half price for the ones I'm offering.
> --Liz
> 
> You only need two things in life;
> WD-40 to make things go faster & duct tape to make them stop.


Have you seen the newer book on stained glass frames.. It sits like a
book, one side is a solid stain glass panel that has a light behind it,
and the other side is the photo frame that is bordered in decoration..
Great for the desk.. 
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 14:55:08 1997
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From: George and Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: stepping stones & pricing
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 17:58:01 -0100
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.16581.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.103357.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-03-26 16:00:29 EST, you write:
> 
> << Also, any good ideas for items that can be used for molds? >>
> 
> I was thinking of using that flexible edging material usually applied
> in gardens.  I figure you could make a variety of shapes with it.
> Haven't tried it yet, so it's just an idea.

I was also thinking of that.. If you could route a channel in wood and
hold it securely, maybe you can come up with some interesting shapes..
Was thinking of that black rubber border that they use around flower
beds..  I will still break down and buy the butterfly mold.. 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 17:49:30 1997
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X-Path: usaor.net!madglass
From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 20:01:12 -0500
Message-ID: <199704040101.UAA10714@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Please include me in the stepping stones/mosaics info also.  Thank you.


----------
> From: karenro <karenro@newpig3.newpig.com>
> To: 'glass@bungi.com'
> Subject: RE: Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
> Date: Wednesday, April 02, 1997 7:03 AM
> 
> 
> Dawn,
> 
>  I to would be interested in recieving the stepping stones/mosaics
>  info from the archives.Thank you for sharing.
> 
> Karen Roberts
> >karenro@newpig.com
> >
> >Charles, Diane, Mary, Tomi, Meg, Mary Archibald, Carol, Scott, and
> >Jane,
> >
> >First of all, I apologize for posting this to the entire group, but I
> >wan=
> >t to make sure I do not inadvertently leave someone out who
> >corresponded =
> >with me regarding my file on stepping stones and mosaics.
> >
> >I have sent each of you listed above an ASCII text file of all the
> >notes =
> >on stepping stones and mosaics that I pulled off of the archives.  This
> >=
> >includes all archives on the site (from inception of Bungi through the
> >=
> >end of February, 1997--March's were not posted yet).  If you for some
> >rea=
> >son do not get my message, please let me know.
> >
> >Darlene and M.J., will you please send me your e-mail addresses and I
> >wil=
> >l send it to you also?  If there is anyone else who requested it and I
> >=
> >overlooked their request, please be sure to let me know.
> >
> >Dawn
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 17:49:31 1997
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From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: stepping stones & pricing
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 19:35:15 EST
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.03515.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.103357.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Gloria,

	Where have you seen a butterfly mold?   Is it a whole one, or do
you make two single wings and put them together?  Sounds interesting. 
I've just seen the basic square, hex, circle, triangle..... You all have
me definitely thinking of trying to make some molds.  My husband's the
handy person, and has a router, so maybe we can try making some. 

Jerri 


On Thu, 03 Apr 1997 17:58:01 -0100 George and Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
writes:
>JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:

>
>I was also thinking of that.. If you could route a channel in wood and
>hold it securely, maybe you can come up with some interesting shapes..
>Was thinking of that black rubber border that they use around flower
>beds..  I will still break down and buy the butterfly mold.. 
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 17:49:32 1997
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From: Laura Bettingen <labette@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Baby
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 16:38:19 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.93819.0>
References: <<199704031703.JAA17374@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I second Sherry=92s offer of help to Melissa. I=92m in Carson City, NV, b=
ut
that should be pretty close. Laura
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 17:50:05 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:23:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.15235.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.123021.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Recently, I had (still have) a new design that required cutting 1" x 2"
bevels in half, lengthwise.  A friend gave me a tip, to drop several
drops of oil, WD40, whatever on the bevel, then cut..  It worked like
magic.  Not sure why, but each bevel cut and broke (using a 'Ringstar')
like butter. Not a mis-cut or break in over 40 of them.
Maybe Mike is right by saying "It splits the ions"  <bg>  "Or the manure
helps the patina go on better"  Don't get upset, just quoting a joke of
Mikes.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
> I'm not sure, everyone has a different idea what it's for. but if the
> wheel were to freeze up, the glass may not break as well. so the wheel
> needs to roll across the surface. in any case it's best to keep it
> lubricated, for maintenance reasons.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 17:50:12 1997
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!RThaxton
From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 15:53:06 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.7536.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.185045.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn wrote:
> 
> Melissa,
> 
> I know they have a leadless solder for jewelry, etc. and I believe it is =
> called "Evergleen".  Any of the major suppliers should carry it.  I reall=
> y have no experience with it so I'll let those with more experience and =
> knowledge jump in.
> 
> My real purpose of writing was to say "Congratulations!!!!!!"
> 
>                                 Dawn
> 
> >       Anyway, does anyone use or know of a leadless solder?
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Thanks Dawn, 
             I don't think it will be today. Went to my Doctor and he
said that I haven't dilated at all an it could be 2 more weeks you never
know.  Also (which I have been upset about all morning) he said she is
now about 10 pounds and that I "will have to have a cesarean section. My
due date is April 23rd.  I'm soooo bummed I never ever ever wanted to
have one, and am scared to death. Everyone who has had one assures me
that it's easy and painless after. Unfortunatly I have no Mom to help me
out after the first week (my husband is taking a week vacation.) my Mom
died when I was pregnant with my daughter Sarah. His Mom is 49 and never
ever taken Sarah over night in her 4 years. (Not the grandmother type) 
I can't wait till this part of my life is past.  
     I sound like I am severly depressed, well I am.  Sorry to lay this
on you people, and I'm sure the men are probally getting tired of
hearing about pregnancy so I'll stop. 

Thanks for the grads and all.
                             Melissa
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 17:50:41 1997
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From: Laura Bettingen <labette@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: observation
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 16:40:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.9407.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.191139.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn =96 your compromise is diplomatic and clever and your respect of the
Rand=92s wishes admirable. Kuddos, Laura
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 17:54:04 1997
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: American Bevel Design Software
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:49:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.154955.0>
References: <<199703300134.RAA05887@mars.ark.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

I got "Designer" because it is a more full featured CAD program.  You
can output to several different file formats, and when you go to Texture
and Fill, use actual pictures of the glass you are going to use, a full
library of Spectrum, and Uboros glass comes with the program in a "glass
sub-directory". I am really pleased with the program, and working on a
design right now.  I will post the design with the actual glass
pictures, when I have finished.  It is a very intuitive program, and
have no trouble with the things I have tried to do with it.  (Going
though the tutorial is a 'round-tuit' also < g >)  I also re-read the
License, and the only thing it prohibits is using the program to create
clip art, and publish pattern books using other company's bevels.  I
have found the tech support to be great also.  There are some very good
reviews on the IGGA site at bungi.com. Considering good CAD programs are
usually $500 and up, the  price seems right, also. 

<Reviews are at:
<We did a review of it in the Winter issue of Common Ground: Glass. 
<Take a look at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/designer.htm
<Albert 

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Wayne Munro wrote:
> 
> >To my fellow bungians:
> 
> >Can any-one give me information on the computer software "Designer" by
> American Bevel Design? It is advertised on page 6 of issue # 34 of "stained
> glass news".
> 
> >I would like feedback as to 'how it works, price, availability, where I can
> order, etc.'
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 18:08:14 1997
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X-Path: alison.sbc.edu!melinton
From: melinton@alison.sbc.edu
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Book list
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 20:58:14 -0500
Message-ID: <l03020701af6a07aaf152@[198.28.38.107]>
References: <<1997Apr2.84454.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

OK--Here are the books I'm offering. I'm just gonna charge $6.00 plus
postage for each of them 'cause I can't figure out what I paid. All are
like new.

1.  Dimensions of Christmas by Teny Nudson
	(make angels with glass, jewels and lead came)

2.  Stepping Stones by Donna Schultz
	(12 patterns for round & octagonal stones)

3.  Tiffany Garden by Julie Bishop-Day
	(octagonal and brick patterns)

I guess I'll have to do first-come first-serve with these so fire off an
email to me privately at melinton@alison.sbc.edu if you want one or all.
Don't just hit return to respond or your mail will have to go though Bungi
before it gets to me and we'll clutter up the list for everybody else.
--Liz


You only need two things in life;
WD-40 to make things go faster & duct tape to make them stop.


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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 19:39:19 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 22:28:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.172858.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.15235.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

leestat7 wrote:
<snip>

> Maybe Mike is right by saying "It splits the ions"  <bg>  "Or the manure
> helps the patina go on better"  Don't get upset, just quoting a joke of
> Mikes.
> 
> Lee Boe
If I'm not getting senile, I seem to remember an article in Scientific
American many years ago, dealing with the effects of water on glass,
when the glass had a fault (scratch, nick etc.). The was something to do
with a chemical reaction that led ro a mechanical event. The water
would/could cause the fracture to deepen. Maybe the oil acts in a
similar way. Does anyone know if Scientific American has an archive on
the web?
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 20:58:16 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 23:53:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.185355.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.172858.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Wow, great idea,yes here are the sites and they have a searchable
database for past issues too.
 
http://www.history.rochester.edu/Scientific_American/
http://www.sciam.com/


shyguy wrote:
> 
> leestat7 wrote:
> <snip>
> 
> > Maybe Mike is right by saying "It splits the ions"  <bg>  "Or the manure
> > helps the patina go on better"  Don't get upset, just quoting a joke of
> > Mikes.
> >
> > Lee Boe
> If I'm not getting senile, I seem to remember an article in Scientific
> American many years ago, dealing with the effects of water on glass,
> when the glass had a fault (scratch, nick etc.). The was something to do
> with a chemical reaction that led ro a mechanical event. The water
> would/could cause the fracture to deepen. Maybe the oil acts in a
> similar way. Does anyone know if Scientific American has an archive on
> the web?
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 21:19:25 1997
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X-Path: artisticglassusa.com!studio
From: studio@artisticglassusa.com (Artistic Glass of Atlanta)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 00:38:14 -0400
Message-ID: <v01510100af6a33c8c9c1@[207.69.145.216]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

RE:Thanks Dawn,
             I don't think it will be today. Went to my Doctor and he
said that I haven't dilated at all an it could be 2 more weeks you never
know.  Also (which I have been upset about all morning) he said she is
now about 10 pounds and that I "will have to have a cesarean section. My
due date is April 23rd.  I'm soooo bummed I never ever ever wanted to
have one, and am scared to death. Everyone who has had one assures me
that it's easy and painless after. Unfortunatly I have no Mom to help me
out after the first week (my husband is taking a week vacation.) my Mom
died when I was pregnant with my daughter Sarah. His Mom is 49 and never
ever taken Sarah over night in her 4 years. (Not the grandmother type)
I can't wait till this part of my life is past.
     I sound like I am severly depressed, well I am.  Sorry to lay this
on you people, and I'm sure the men are probally getting tired of
hearing about pregnancy so I'll stop.

Thanks for the grads and all.
                             Melissa
----

Melissa,

        I am a man, and I guess I will never understand the pain or nine
months of discomfort related to pregnancy.

        I do know that things won't always be like this.  So try to smile.

        You have my deepest admiration.


        -Michael

Michael Delaware
www.artisticglassusa.com
michael@artisticglassusa.com


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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 21:22:34 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: frame-making book
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 08:20:26 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.162026.0>
References: <<l03020701af681b05cb60@[198.28.38.107]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd be interestred in the one of the angels. Give a listing of the others
too. thanks alot.
Mary
diamonds@juno.com



On Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:28:10 -0500 melinton@alison.sbc.edu writes:
>Hi Jerri--
>I'd be willing to buy your book on making stained-glass frames from 
>you for
>half price or something. I thought it was interesting when you said 
>you
>regretted buying the book because you didn't like the patterns. I feel
>exactly the same way about several of the how-to books I've gotten.
>
>In fact, if anyone is interested, I'd like to sell a few of the books 
>I've
>bought. I've got a few on mosaic stepping stones and one on angels. I
>bought them to learn the techniques but hated the patterns so they are
>unused as far as the eye can tell. If any would like me to post the 
>titles
>just let me know.
>
>We could really help each other out this way and recover some money on
>"used" books. I'll take half price for the ones I'm offering.
>--Liz
>
>You only need two things in life;
>WD-40 to make things go faster & duct tape to make them stop.
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 21:23:40 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Butterfly molds
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:40:34 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.184034.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

I'd like to hear more about those butterfly molds too.  I asked at a store in
Austin and they had never heard of them.  I just barely caught a reference to
it before I went on vacation and I'm not home yet so I guess it's possible
that I'm asking about something that's been discussed already and if I am, I
do apologize.  But I'm intrigued by the idea of a stone that shape and would
really appreciate it if anyone knows anything about them, including the
original poster, if they'd reiterate and possibly expand upon the subject.

Thank you!
Susie
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 21:41:11 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar
From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 00:39:41 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.193941.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Michael Delaware, You sound like such a compassionate man! I am really
touched by this! Just thought that you really deserve to be commended for
such a wonderful remark, and for being so thoughtful. So here is a pat on the
back, and may many more humans share in his concern for others and make this
world a better place to be!    Krissy
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 21:47:29 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Butterfly molds
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 00:45:30 EST
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.54530.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Susie ;  I had an answer directly to you but i fouled up!!!! So the Bungi
group will read along. The molds arrived today at our shop (St, Louis
Stained Glass Studio) and they are a rectangle with the Butterfly in the
middle , a lip on the outside edge to protect spill over ,i guess, I'm
not sure where we got them but will be prepared to answer further
questions, if asked. I will be here until Monday if i can be of any help
. I don't always know the answers but i know where to get them. DON.     
                                   GIVE THEM ROSES WHILE YOU'RE HERE TO
GIVE THEM.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 21:58:54 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar
From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Stepping stones custom made
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 00:57:22 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.195722.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I was just browsing through AOL and came across a posting of somebody asking
if other media besides s/g could be used in stepping stones such as broken
pottery & china. I thought I should share the following brainstorm I had.
 
My husband's 90 year old great grandmother had a retaining wall built about
20 years ago(she is on river) and in it she placed items above and glass, etc
that were mementos of different things. The stuff is still there after all
this time and looks great, and it is nice to look at memories walking on it,
and hear stories retold. 

Well, I got the idea that we could actually make custom stepping stones like
from baby's first(include silverware, plate, etc. as well as a design around
or incorporated into it in glass), anniversary, wedding, birthday, etc. You
get the idea.Each stone would be unique and priceless to the person. Now has
anyone tried this? I am ready to do one now!!!   tell me what you all think!
 I just had to share this one!     Krissy
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 22:06:31 1997
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From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Butterfly molds
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 01:08:19 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr3.17819.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

The molds are in the shape of Butterflies and come two different
sizes,24" and 27" molds with 3 different patterns...If we can help
please contact us at:
The Craft Nook, Inc.
227 South 8th. Street
Fernandina Bch., Fla.
32034
1-800-458-6292

Thanks Walter
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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 22:08:21 1997
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Summary: Authenticated sender is <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 12:56:58 +0000
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On  3 Apr 97, Christie Wood & George D'Asce wrote:

> I would stay away from anything which involved soldering.  However,
> you might want to do the stained glass mosaics during this time.  No
> soldering.  No chemicals.  Safe (as things go in stained glass), and
> very much in vogue right now. ...Christie

I may be wrong, so someone correct me on this,but it is my 
understanding that the danger comes fromthe flux and other chemicals 
like the patinas and cleaning materials, not from the solder.  There 
are to my knowledge no fumes that come off the solder while is is 
heated.  Albert may be able to tell you if I am wrong.

Some one mentioned keeping your hands clean, and washing a lot. Don't 
put tools in your mouth (I've had to break myself of that one because 
if would put my fid inmy mouth while using both hands on something. I 
have a gremlin that moves stuff I lay on the bench! :D>)

I have a window at the back of my bench, and I put a little 5" fan in 
it, and sealed the rest, and it goes on when I flip the switch to 
turn on the iron. That and a loo close by.

Happy baby birthing!
Blessed Be

Myrddn

Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity!


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From owner-glass Thu Apr  3 22:08:22 1997
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Summary: Authenticated sender is <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 12:48:21 +0000
Message-ID: <m0wD28r-0001teC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

On  3 Apr 97, Christie Wood & George D'Asce wrote:

> I would stay away from anything which involved soldering.  However,
> you might want to do the stained glass mosaics during this time.  No
> soldering.  No chemicals.  Safe (as things go in stained glass), and
> very much in vogue right now. ...Christie

I may be wrong, so someone correct me on this,but it is my 
understanding that the danger comes fromthe flux and other chemicals 
like the patinas and cleaning materials, not from the solder.  There 
are to my knowledge no fumes that come off the solder while is is 
heated.  Albert may be able to tell you if I am wrong.

Some one mentioned keeping your hands clean, and washing a lot. Don't 
put tools in your mouth (I've had to break myself of that one because 
if would put my fid inmy mouth while using both hands on something. I 
have a gremlin that moves stuff I lay on the bench! :D>)

I have a window at the back of my bench, and I put a little 5" fan in 
it, and sealed the rest, and it goes on when I flip the switch to 
turn on the iron. That and a loo close by.

Happy baby birthing!
Blessed Be

Myrddn

Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity!


----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 02:37:21 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: BABY BLUES
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 05:36:01 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.0361.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

     TO:  MELISSA
FROM:  ELEANOR
I too had a c-section, though it was after all day of labor, my son was too
big also.  You will be quite surprized at how quickly you recouperate!  A
c-section is not like other surgery in that you had no infection, etc. cause
for the surgery and in a run down condition beforehand.  I had my husband
also for a brief week and did not need help afterwards and believe me I am
not the "strong, tough" type!  Your new baby will be a great motivator in
your recovery.  Just be careful to watch going up and down steps and carrying
heavy objects for the first month or so after operation.
How about your other child?  Can you make arrangements for him to visit
neighbors or a nursery school or have someone care for him for a few hours a
day?  Try now to get him/her situated for when your husband returns to work.
Take Care!
Eleanor

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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 02:43:40 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "[unknown]" <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: 04 Apr 97 05:38:49 EST
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.103849.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Myrddn"
>I may be wrong, so someone correct me on this,but it is my 
understanding that the danger comes fromthe flux and other chemicals 
like the patinas and cleaning materials, not from the solder.  There 
are to my knowledge no fumes that come off the solder while is is 
heated.  Albert may be able to tell you if I am wrong.<

Hi there Myrddn.  When I said to not solder I was thinking mostly of the fumes
which do arrise from the flux being heated by the soldering iron as the hot
solder touches it.

...Christie

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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 02:51:43 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stepping stones custom made
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 05:50:22 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.05022.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

     TO:  Krissy
FROM:  Eleanor

Recently I saw your idea on a television show.  It was one of those shows for
the home.  I am sorry I cannot remember the name.  The woman used all kinds
of things and just stuck them on the top of the cement and pressed them in.
 I must say that I was not particuarly impressed with the results, though
possibly because the stone had no sentimental meaning to me.  If perhaps she
had used glass to announce what the stone was for eg.:  "25 YEARS OF
MEMORIES" or "HAPPY BIRTHDAY".  I guess you could even laminate a photo and
place in also.
I think you could really go someplace with this!
If you would like, I will check my t.v. channels and try to find the same
program and station.  If you would care to call or write the station you
could probably get more info on how she did it.  Let me know if you would
like me to do the t.v. scanning for you.

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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 03:14:48 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 06:20:18 +0000
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> >I may be wrong, so someone correct me on this,but it is my 
> understanding that the danger comes fromthe flux and other chemicals 
> like the patinas and cleaning materials, not from the solder.  There 
> are to my knowledge no fumes that come off the solder while is is 
> heated.  Albert may be able to tell you if I am wrong.<

Albert knows everything? Nah. Better you should check with Monona at 
http://www.caseweb.com/acts 

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 04:55:27 1997
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From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Picture Frames
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 04:54:40 -0800
Message-ID: <199704041254.EAA26350@mars.ark.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Darlene--You can 'borrow' a piece out of an original frame and copy it to
fit your frame or build your frame and mount your pictures with heavier
paper (coloured or plain) or solder a heavey piece of wire as a stand. (Side
to side and bent in a 'V' to make up the stand. The large one I did, I used
wire on all 4 sidedes bent in a loop and bent over the picture to hold it in.
>Hope that is of assistance to you......Wayne 
>
>
>Does anyone know of a supplier for the cardboard
>or plastic backs for picture frames?  The kind
>with an arm on a hinge so that the frame can
>stand by itself.  I want to make some frames as
>Christmas gifts but can't quite bring myself to
>buy a lot of cheap frames from Wal-mart just for
>the backs.  Any other ideas for backing stained
>glass frames?
>
>Thanks,
>Darlene
>----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 05:46:22 1997
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From: UURESPES@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: frame-making book
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:46:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.34623.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.164916.0>>
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Would be interested in learning the name of your angel book.  Are they
flat or 3-D? Thanks.
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 05:53:18 1997
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From: wood@telalink.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: butterfly molds
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 07:53:49 -0600
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I received a sale flyer with the butterfly molds this month. It was from
"Anything in Stained Glass", 800-462-1209, email (staingls@pulsar.net).
If you have a tax number and business license you can get their
wholesale catalog. There are two different sizes and three patterns
(Monarch, Viceroy, and Checkerspot) that you can order. Standard
wingspan is 24" and large wingspan is 27". Hope this information helps
someone.

Sandy
Creations In Glass
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 06:04:15 1997
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From: wood@telalink.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: butterfly molds
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:04:49 -0600
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I forgot to mention that you don't have to have a resale tax number and
business license to receive a catalog from Anything In Stained Glass.
They have a regular catalog too.

Sandy
Creations In Glass
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 06:04:41 1997
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From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Butterfly molds
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:59:24 EST
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.135924.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.17819.0>>
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Hi,

	Do you have a catalog?  Do you sell any other molds?  Or do you
have a web site?  

Jerri

On Fri, 04 Apr 1997 01:08:19 -0800 tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.)
writes:
>The molds are in the shape of Butterflies and come two different
>sizes,24" and 27" molds with 3 different patterns...If we can help
>please contact us at:
>The Craft Nook, Inc.
>227 South 8th. Street
>Fernandina Bch., Fla.
>32034
>1-800-458-6292
>
>Thanks Walter
>----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 06:21:12 1997
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From: yj3673@sunams.usma.army.mil (McLaughlin John COL)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Fri Apr  4 09:20:31 1997
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     Ref. Lee's comment about water and Scientific Am.  In Chemistry Lab we 
used to put a drop of water on the score when cutting glass tubing.  It seemed 
to work.  Don't know why, maybe expells the evil spirits or bad humors.

John
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 06:47:25 1997
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From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Melissa
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 08:54:30 -0600
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Melissa,
What are friends for - the good stuff, great glass ideas, how-tos, mold
magic, solder success, pattern possibilities, etc.,  - and those
occasional moments when we can all use some support - so here's my
support (long distance, alas) - hang in there.  Thinking :) for you, 
Linn
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 07:14:36 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 10:09:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.5955.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.15235.0>>
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leestat7 wrote:
> 
> Recently, I had (still have) a new design that required cutting 1" x 2"
> bevels in half, lengthwise.  A friend gave me a tip, to drop several
> drops of oil, WD40, whatever on the bevel, then cut..  It worked like
> magic.  Not sure why, but each bevel cut and broke (using a 'Ringstar')
> like butter. Not a mis-cut or break in over 40 of them.
> Maybe Mike is right by saying "It splits the ions"  <bg>  "Or the manure
> helps the patina go on better"  Don't get upset, just quoting a joke of
> Mikes.
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> > I'm not sure, everyone has a different idea what it's for. but if the
> > wheel were to freeze up, the glass may not break as well. so the wheel
> > needs to roll across the surface. in any case it's best to keep it
> > lubricated, for maintenance reasons.
> >
> > ---Mike Savad
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


acually splitting the ions was someone else, though the manure idea was
mine. :)  i know that water does the same trick. i tried that trick of
cutting glass with scissors, it does work, but the glass is very ragged. 

if your wonder how; you put the glass under water, in a pail or
something. then i found using a snips, more leverage, and i don't kill a
pair of scissors, cut away at the glass. the glass justs sort of
crumbles, kind of cool, but also very messy. it would only be usefull if
you were on a deserted island, and you had to cut glass...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 07:20:03 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stepping stones custom made
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 10:15:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.51527.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.195722.0>>
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KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I was just browsing through AOL and came across a posting of somebody asking
> if other media besides s/g could be used in stepping stones such as broken
> pottery & china. I thought I should share the following brainstorm I had.
> 
> My husband's 90 year old great grandmother had a retaining wall built about
> 20 years ago(she is on river) and in it she placed items above and glass, etc
> that were mementos of different things. The stuff is still there after all
> this time and looks great, and it is nice to look at memories walking on it,
> and hear stories retold.
> 
> Well, I got the idea that we could actually make custom stepping stones like
> from baby's first(include silverware, plate, etc. as well as a design around
> or incorporated into it in glass), anniversary, wedding, birthday, etc. You
> get the idea.Each stone would be unique and priceless to the person. Now has
> anyone tried this? I am ready to do one now!!!   tell me what you all think!
>  I just had to share this one!     Krissy
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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acually there's some guy that makes comercial bricks, with a special
blend of cement and junk. like he'll have bricks with Swatch parts in
them, nut's and bolts, and a whole bunch of other things. it looks kind
of neat.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 07:22:48 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 10:18:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.5189.0>
References: <<m0wD28r-0001huC@daver.bungi.com>>
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Precedence: bulk

Myrddn wrote:
> 
> On  3 Apr 97, Christie Wood & George D'Asce wrote:
> 
> > I would stay away from anything which involved soldering.  However,
> > you might want to do the stained glass mosaics during this time.  No
> > soldering.  No chemicals.  Safe (as things go in stained glass), and
> > very much in vogue right now. ...Christie
> 
> I may be wrong, so someone correct me on this,but it is my
> understanding that the danger comes fromthe flux and other chemicals
> like the patinas and cleaning materials, not from the solder.  There
> are to my knowledge no fumes that come off the solder while is is
> heated.  Albert may be able to tell you if I am wrong.
> 
> Some one mentioned keeping your hands clean, and washing a lot. Don't
> put tools in your mouth (I've had to break myself of that one because
> if would put my fid inmy mouth while using both hands on something. I
> have a gremlin that moves stuff I lay on the bench! :D>)
> 
> I have a window at the back of my bench, and I put a little 5" fan in
> it, and sealed the rest, and it goes on when I flip the switch to
> turn on the iron. That and a loo close by.
> 
> Happy baby birthing!
> Blessed Be
> 
> Myrddn
> 
> Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity!
> 
> ----
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i think it's both, trace amounts of lead will get on your hands from the
solder or more if it's lead. lead really is'nt a huge concern, though i
think some does vaporize. and breathing in chemicals is never a good
thing, weither there vaporized, or fuming like patina.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 07:44:03 1997
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From: melinton@alison.sbc.edu
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:35:44 -0500
Message-ID: <l03020702af6acffdeae4@[198.28.38.107]>
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I went to Lowe's last weekend and the only kind of solder they sell is
leadless. I guess lead in plumbing is an idea whose time is past. Don't
know how it would work in glass projects though.
--Liz

You only need two things in life;
WD-40 to make things go faster & duct tape to make them stop.


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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 08:55:10 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 11:54:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.65440.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I was told that the lead in solder does not gassify at the temps. we use to
do stained glass and the lead danger is indeed from ingesting it. The solder
fumes are also noxious, and you can wear a simple dust mask and keep hands
away from face, being careful not to eat or drink anything. I also keep my
soldering seperate from all my other tools as to not get the lead on them.
Good luck!
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 09:09:50 1997
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From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Baby
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 09:04:45 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.1445.0>
References: <<1997Apr3.93819.0>>
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Laura Bettingen wrote:
> 
> I second Sherry=92s offer of help to Melissa. I=92m in Carson City, NV, b=
> ut
> that should be pretty close. Laura
> ----
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Thank you Laura,
Melissa
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 09:44:51 1997
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From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 09:39:31 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.13931.0>
References: <<199704041113.GAA17488@ns.computer.net>>
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Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > >I may be wrong, so someone correct me on this,but it is my
> > understanding that the danger comes fromthe flux and other chemicals
> > like the patinas and cleaning materials, not from the solder.  There
> > are to my knowledge no fumes that come off the solder while is is
> > heated.  Albert may be able to tell you if I am wrong.<
> 
> Albert knows everything? Nah. Better you should check with Monona at
> http://www.caseweb.com/acts
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
> _________________________________________________________
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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That is true to an extent but the lead is a problem> Lead is terrible
for kids in there brain development. I am sure that every thing
associated from the solder stage to finished project, because of the
chemicals is bad. So ya gotta be cautious when baby in tow...
Melissa
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 09:45:25 1997
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From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Leadless Solder
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 09:40:34 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.14034.0>
References: <<v01510100af6a33c8c9c1@[207.69.145.216]>>
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Precedence: bulk

Artistic Glass of Atlanta wrote:
> 
> RE:Thanks Dawn,
>              I don't think it will be today. Went to my Doctor and he
> said that I haven't dilated at all an it could be 2 more weeks you never
> know.  Also (which I have been upset about all morning) he said she is
> now about 10 pounds and that I "will have to have a cesarean section. My
> due date is April 23rd.  I'm soooo bummed I never ever ever wanted to
> have one, and am scared to death. Everyone who has had one assures me
> that it's easy and painless after. Unfortunatly I have no Mom to help me
> out after the first week (my husband is taking a week vacation.) my Mom
> died when I was pregnant with my daughter Sarah. His Mom is 49 and never
> ever taken Sarah over night in her 4 years. (Not the grandmother type)
> I can't wait till this part of my life is past.
>      I sound like I am severly depressed, well I am.  Sorry to lay this
> on you people, and I'm sure the men are probally getting tired of
> hearing about pregnancy so I'll stop.
> 
> Thanks for the grads and all.
>                              Melissa
> ----
> 
> Melissa,
> 
>         I am a man, and I guess I will never understand the pain or nine
> months of discomfort related to pregnancy.
> 
>         I do know that things won't always be like this.  So try to smile.
> 
>         You have my deepest admiration.
> 
>         -Michael
> 
> Michael Delaware
> www.artisticglassusa.com
> michael@artisticglassusa.com
> 
> ----
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Thanks Michael.
Melissa
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 09:56:51 1997
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From: "Lerner, Frank M (NM75)" <frank.lerner@das.honeywell.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Leadless Solder
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:56:45 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.35645.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello,

This is my first post to this list and I am curious to see if this
works.

It was said:

>
>>i think it's both, trace amounts of lead will get on your hands from the
>>solder or more if it's lead. lead really is'nt a huge concern, though i
>>think some does vaporize. and breathing in chemicals is never a good
>>thing, weither there vaporized, or fuming like patina.
>>
>>---Mike Savad

I did some research on teratogens in school and the effects of lead on
human development and had high reliability solder school 
at China Lake for my work.  (I'm not sure what kind of background to
give you) I learned some interesting things about lead.

Here are some things that I believe:

Lead doesn't vaporize from regular work with glass.  It may splatter but
it doesn't vapoize.

The big problems that I see with lead is getting it on your hands and
having little bits of solder (ie solder balls) fall on the floor.
Once the solder is on the floor, it can end up anywhere.  

Don't eat or drink or touch food serving items or counters when working
with lead.  Ingestion of lead is a major factor of lead poisoning.
 
I haven't seen anyone mention smoking.  DON'T SMOKE with hands that have
been touching lead.  Cigarettes burn hot.
In the old days, people did mosaics with mercury compounds.  They are
not around to tell us about it now.  I fear smokers run the same fate.
Especially if they do not use gloves for patinas and polishes.
 
I do not have any data on the dangers of flux. But all that smoke you
see and smell is burning flux and not lead.
 
I paint glass and almost every pigment is dangerous if heated.  Fire
your glass in a well ventilated area and not in your kitchen.
Bad ingredients include antimony, cadmium and cyanide.  Don't lick your
paint brush.  Don't scratch your face until you wash your hands.  Shower
after an intensive session.
 
I have a screened work surface that I use to collect lead.  I roll it up
in news paper and wrap the ends first to keep the pieces from escaping.
I often take lead to my local glass shop for recycling.
 
That's enough harping on this for now I guess. Common sense should
dictate your actions.  Lead is dangerous.
My friends say I have sense.  But none of it is common.
 
Frank

I would be very concerned about your behaviours around lead.
 

>-- 
>Mike's Stained Glass
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>
>New Pages Added:
>
> - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
> - The Creative Process
> - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
> - Picking Out Glass in the Store
>
> - Plus New Photos
> - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
> - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
> - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden
>
> - But That's Not All!!!
> - My Links Page is UP!
> - And Awards Page Too
>----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 10:08:22 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim
From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stepping stones custom made
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 13:07:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.8751.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I saw someone make a stone using all types of things on the t.v. on a home
show.  If you would like I can try to find the show and give you the station
and name.  You could call and ask for more info on that particular project if
you would like.  Let me know and I will t.v.surf.
The one I saw was not all that impressive.  She seemed to just throw the
things in as opposed to designing with them and also she did not use any
glass that I can remember.  Using the words, "Happy Birthday or Anniversary"
would make it much nicer too.  That's a good idea you have there!  Let me
know how it comes out.
Eleanor

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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 10:11:07 1997
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!RThaxton
From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Melissa
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 10:05:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.2557.0>
References: <<1997Apr4.25430.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Rio Grande Valley Museum wrote:
> 
> Melissa,
> What are friends for - the good stuff, great glass ideas, how-tos, mold
> magic, solder success, pattern possibilities, etc.,  - and those
> occasional moments when we can all use some support - so here's my
> support (long distance, alas) - hang in there.  Thinking :) for you,
> Linn
> ----
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Thanks for your concern.
Melissa
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 12:26:15 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters -- my toyo works fine
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:25:31 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.102531.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

<< > As for luck, I believe we make our own. I am entirely
 > responsible for my entire experience of life. (Sometimes redundancy
 > is necessary to make a point.)
  
 maybe, maybe not, if your house is the only house that keeps getting
 pelted with frozen urine from the heavens above; then i'd re-think the
 idea. >>

I've tried to make my own luck in Las Vegas, many times... without 
much success, if you could make your own I'd be rich.

I've also tried to make my own luck when I was running low on glass,
and had a tough piece left to cut... sometimes it works, sometimes it
doesn't.

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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 12:26:50 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: books
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:25:32 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.102532.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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In a message dated 97-04-03 12:21:32 EST, you write:

<< I think a book "buy-back" or exchange is a great idea.  Another source
that
 I've
 had good luck with is used book stores.  I've found several books of stained
 glass patterns and techniques for a few bucks each.  >>

There is a place on web that sells stained glass books on the cheap.
They're new books, so I guess they're out of print or something.  Here's
the URL:

http://www.needleworkbooks.com/stained.html
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 12:32:40 1997
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From: ANLGlass@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stepping stones custom made
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:31:52 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.103152.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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In a message dated 97-04-04 01:00:21 EST, you write:

<< Well, I got the idea that we could actually make custom stepping stones
like
 from baby's first(include silverware, plate, etc. as well as a design around
 or incorporated into it in glass), anniversary, wedding, birthday, etc. You
 get the idea.Each stone would be unique and priceless to the person. Now has
 anyone tried this? I am ready to do one now!!!   tell me what you all think!
  I just had to share this one!     Krissy >>

I've made some sample stones with custom lettering in glass -- like for
weddings,
anniversaries, whatever.  The idea got great reception at a recent show --
we'll
see if anyone follows up!

I'd like to figure out a way to get a kid's handprint or footprint into a
stone.  Great
gift for a parent or grandparent...

- Marilyn
A New Light
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 18:40:44 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 20:34:27 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970403202502.1b274556@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I think it would be possible, we had a fire attributed to sun shining
through a bottle on dry grass... as children most people start fires some
time or another with a magnifying glass.  However, sueing someone???? Meg


>By the way, had anyone heard of a crystal starting a fire???  I am referring
>to the tiny crystals that are used as decorations on hearts and suncatchers
>or panels.  They hang down to accent a certain part of a piece and someone
>mentioned that she heard that someone had sold a piece with a crystal and was
>sued for the fire.  What do you guys think?
>Eleanor
>
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>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 18:40:45 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 20:34:24 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970403202459.1b271a80@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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ABut now my new problem, the cutter is a Toyo oil filled (my pencil grip is
>same & used for 8 yrs constantly) but overnite it leaked out almost all the
>fluid through the head. 


Mine did too..... I put straight 3 in 1 oil in and as it was thicker, it
helped some, also I don't fill it all the way up.  Lately I purchased a new
head for it... a wider one supposed to be nicer for intricate cuts... I
hadn't been aware there were more than one head for the thing, anyway....
surprise, it works much better!  Also I cut another gasket out of inner tube
and put behind the filler screw, that helped some too. I keep mine in a jar
with felt sopped in oil covering the bottom of the jar. Meg
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 18:41:19 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: For Dawn
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 20:34:20 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970403202456.1b27184a@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Sorry group.... I tried directly but it got bounced back!  Meg



>Hi Dawn;
>        Thanks for the info... came through just fine!!!  Will print it out
>and put it in a loose leaf notebook I think..... (like all my other
>files..right! ;)) sigh!
>        I have the design for the first stepping stone made.,.. now I can
>start with the glass soon.  I am thinking of doing the center square with
>the design in glass, and an edging of pieces of square tile around it....let
>you know how it goes... Meg
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 20:01:55 1997
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From: Redware1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Butterfly molds & hearts
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 23:00:49 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.18049.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Sandy and everyone,

Can you give us a price on the butterfly molds from "Anything in Stained
Glass" sale flyer? I asked a local retailer today for a ball park figure and
he said $50.00!  That seems very high to me!

Also, is anyone stocking the new 14" heart mold by DTI or Tiffany?  Has
anyone seen the new MosaicArt books 1&2 by DTI? (The mold and books were
mentioned in SGN #36.)

TIA

Diane
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 20:16:51 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 97 20:14:09 -0500
Message-ID: <199704050415.UAA00916@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

How about we go to round III on the cutters.......or call it a "TKO".

Who ever said that the wide head is for intricate cuts....can you see the
cutting wheel at all? 

IMHO, it is best used for STRAIGHT line cutting AGAINST a bar. If it the
same toyo I use, there is no offset, but a larger flat surface to track on a
straight edge.....

enjoy...........H

and again, why do you fill the cutters with oil??????????


--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 20:41:18 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Butterfly molds & hearts
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 23:36:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.183633.0>
References: <<1997Apr4.18049.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Redware1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Sandy and everyone,
> 
> Can you give us a price on the butterfly molds from "Anything in Stained
> Glass" sale flyer? I asked a local retailer today for a ball park figure and
> he said $50.00!  That seems very high to me!
> 
> Also, is anyone stocking the new 14" heart mold by DTI or Tiffany?  Has
> anyone seen the new MosaicArt books 1&2 by DTI? (The mold and books were
> mentioned in SGN #36.)

>From Flyer:
B-IS  Stand. Butterfly Mold/Monarch Pattern	$39.95	24" wingspan
B-IL Large Butterfly Mold w/Monarch Pat.	$42.95	27" wingspan	
SV-P Stand. B. Viceroy Pattern			$ 5.95
LV-P Large Viceroy Pat.				$ 6.59
Sc-P Stand Checkerspot Pattern			$ 5.95
LC-P Large Checkerspot Pat.			$ 6.59

This is from Anything in Stained Glass Flyer
1-800-462-1209
they list lots of molds but not a 'heart' in the flyer.  Depending on
where you are-check also Glass Crafters and Delphi.  Both have links
from the Art Glass World Web Site:

http://www.artglassworld.com/Welcome.html

Hope this helps-Haven't seen the books.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 21:07:07 1997
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X-Path: telalink.net!wood
From: wood@telalink.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: butterfly molds
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 23:07:56 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.17756.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Diane,
The price on the butterfly molds are $32 for standard and $34.69 for
large. The patterns are $4.89 and $5.29. These are not the wholesale
prices. I don't get the wholesale flyer til later on in the month.
I haven't gotten any information on the heart mold yet. 
No one has mentioned using the 4 1/4" tile mold or the 24" tree ring
molds yet. I thought these were a good idea. The tile mold takes a
different kind of cement because it is so thin. I don't remember what
supplier carried it. I'd have to look back.
Also the easel backs are on sale in their regular flyer. The regular
back are: 3.5x5  .52, 4x6  .64, 5x7  .73, 8x10  .87. The deluxe w/metal
hanging hooks are: 3.5x5  .82, 4x6  .99, 5x7  $1.17, 8x10  $1.29.
I can't say that these are the best prices around as I only grabbed the
one flyer to give you an idea.
I order from more than one company and spend half my time looking up
prices to find the best buy. I'm sure that others in the group can get
better prices from bigger companies. But I don't have a retail store or
yellow pages listing, so I do the best I can.
I just finished my first mosaic piece (a small glass table top). I
haven't decided if I like doing mosaics or not. I'm going to do one
more. 

Sandy
Creations In Glass
I don't receive SGN so I don't know what the books look like. I usually
only get a book title (no author) and a picture of the cover when they
are put in the flyers.
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From owner-glass Fri Apr  4 21:26:42 1997
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From: wood@telalink.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: tile cement
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 23:27:39 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr4.172739.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I found the tile cement for the tile molds. It is supposed to have a
satin like smooth finish to give it a ceramic look and feel (according
to the description). Anything In Stained Glass featured it in their last
flyer.
Does anyone have the "Candlelight Designs" book? Are the designs going
to be time comsuming? I have the "Lanterns for Home and Garden" book but
never got around to doing any. I don't do jewelry boxes and these
lanterns reminded me of jewelry boxes with all their sides and hinge
closing doors. You get used to doing certain thing and boxes is not it
for me. But I really like the designs. I have a thing for candle holders
anyway.

Sandy
Creations In Glass
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 02:29:00 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 05:28:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.0288.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have laid my Toyo on its side for the last 9 years.  When I get ready to
score, I put a drop of oil on the blade to help to get it started.  Also, I
only fill the cartridge less than l/4 full sewing machine oil.  I once read
that thick oil could clog the cutter up.
Eleanor

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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 03:16:00 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: purchasing glass
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 05:58:50 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.05850.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Sandy,
I tried to e-mail you personally but I could not get through.  Could you
please e-mail me your address?
Eleanor / Eureka Stained Glass
yegnim@aol.com

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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 04:24:33 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Reply to tile molds
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 07:24:36 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970405072434.006873f4@mail.bright.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 
>No one has mentioned using the 4 1/4" tile mold or the 24" tree ring
>molds yet. I thought these were a good idea. The tile mold takes a
>different kind of cement because it is so thin. 

I gave a class a while back using the tile molds and made some in advance
luckily, because I had to do a LOT of experimenting to get them to come out
right.  I used the Mosaic Stone Cement from Diamond Tech International.  I
love the whiteness and brightness of this cement....worth the extra
cost.....however I had to mix a LOT more cement than the instructions on
the container said.  And the key to having them turn out seemed to be to
keep them in the mold only long enough for them to become solid, but not
dry.  There is some touching up to do on the underside after unmolding and
this is best achieved when you can still use a damp rag to get the grunge
off.  20-30 minutes is all that's needed for the tiles.

Some of the problems I encountered were:
	1)  the tile had a ridge around it because of the contact paper in the
bottom of the mold.  It was solved by not keeping the cement in the mold
longer than 20-30 minutes and wiping off the ridge with a washrag.
	2) the cement soaked up the dye from the pattern underneath.  Solved by
not using the pattern underneath.
	3)  the tile fell apart completely when unmolded.  Solved by a better
ratio of cement to water in the mix.  I ended up added cement in by
teaspoonfuls until I got the consistency I needed...pourable, but very dry.
	4)  the edges of the tile weren't crisp.  It came from using the contact
paper up over the sides of the tile mold (to get rid of the ridges).  So I
didn't do that again.

I also experimented with the color additives from Latham.  The only color I
tried was green, and I didn't like any of the tiles that I used it in.  It
was a yellowy leaf green, not the current "green" in style these days.
Even more white cement and less color didn't change the yellowness of it.
When they say use only 1 tablespoon per tile, believe them...the darker
tint is NOT pretty.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran

Send your original patterns for the Bunginian Glass Pattern Atlas to:
		Garden of Glass
		501 N. Madriver St.
		Bellefontaine, OH  43311
or email joyce@mail.bright.net

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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 05:40:45 1997
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From: ScottSGN@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lighthouse patterns
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 08:39:24 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.33924.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Marilyn said:

>I was searching the Web, looking for pictures of lighthouses
>to use as the starting point for making a stained glass pattern

For those interested, we are releasing two pattern books next month featuring
lighthouses. Coastal Lights (lighthouse panels) and Harbor Lights (lighthouse
suncatchers), both designed by Lisa Rosochacki, should be available from your
favorite suppliers around the middle of May.

Scott
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 07:13:22 1997
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From: Bubstah@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 10:11:58 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.51158.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have used my cutter for the past 2 years and I only have used any old lamp
oil and only fill half full.  I haven't had any problems with it. I store it
standing up with the wheel in a down position so the oil is constantly on it.
 It does not leak at all and works very well when I cut.

Hope this is of some help to you and anyone else using this type of cutter.

Thanks for all the information I have derived from the Bungi group

Bubstah
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 07:32:34 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 3
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 10:32:04 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.5324.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Yes, If you look at the literature from the manufacturers, It DOES say that
narrow is for intracate pattern cutting and wide heads are for straight or
less intracate cuts. Whomever sold you the cutter was mixed up a little. I am
sure you can still find a use for it and it was not a total loss for you. I
have only worked with narrow heads and therefore cannot even describe the
difference.  Good luck.     KRISSY
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 08:30:13 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutters: pencil VS pistol grip
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 11:26:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.62614.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970403202502.1b274556@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> I think it would be possible, we had a fire attributed to sun shining
> through a bottle on dry grass... as children most people start fires some
> time or another with a magnifying glass.  However, sueing someone???? Meg
> 
> >By the way, had anyone heard of a crystal starting a fire???  I am referring
> >to the tiny crystals that are used as decorations on hearts and suncatchers
> >or panels.  They hang down to accent a certain part of a piece and someone
> >mentioned that she heard that someone had sold a piece with a crystal and was
> >sued for the fire.  What do you guys think?
> >Eleanor
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> >
> Richard and Meg LaVal
> apdo. 24-5655
> Monteverde
> COSTA RICA
> tel: 506 645 5052
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah and in the case with the bevel starting a fire, they gouy who sued
hime, won...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 08:32:55 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 11:29:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.6294.0>
References: <<199704050415.UAA00916@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote:
> 
> -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> 
> How about we go to round III on the cutters.......or call it a "TKO".
> 
> Who ever said that the wide head is for intricate cuts....can you see the
> cutting wheel at all?
> 
> IMHO, it is best used for STRAIGHT line cutting AGAINST a bar. If it the
> same toyo I use, there is no offset, but a larger flat surface to track on a
> straight edge.....
> 
> enjoy...........H
> 
> and again, why do you fill the cutters with oil??????????
> 
> --
> New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
>     2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard
> 
> E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah the big head was meant only for straight cuts, becuase you really
can't see what your doing..

as for the oil, you just do, maybe it's like drilling a hole in metal,
you put oil in it to cool down the bit. i suppose some could write to a
glass cutter company and ask why....

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 09:00:24 1997
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From: Mike & Amy Murphy <mamurphy@techline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Candlelight Designs
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:57:39 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970405165739.0067eedc@mail.techline.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have the Candlelight Designs book and have made over half of the candles.
Lots of raves from people getting these as gifts. I don't alwys use the bevels
in the designs because I'm one of those people who gets my second wind after
work about 7:00PM and have the need to make something.  A couple of favorite
patterns have been "Casa Blanca" and "Governors Harbor." Last night I cut out
"Barcelona" (without the bevels).  The end caps you use for the candles need
to get pretty hot to take the solder, then have a tendency to take forever, of
course, to place on the candle holder.  I feel that this book, and I have
at least a hundred, is one of my favorites.
Amy 
Mike and Amy Murphy

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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 09:08:45 1997
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From: BactiBarbi@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass ornaments
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 12:07:21 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.7721.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am looking for a supplier of a specific glass ornament....hand blown,
irridescent, 5" diameter, 1" thick round glass ornament (NOT a sphere).   any
info about where I can locate these (I know they exist...I have a few)
 please E-mail me.  Thank you.

BactiBarbi@aol.com
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 09:26:08 1997
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From: palomino@catalina-inter.net (Margaret Palomino)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Thanks Bungians!
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 09:28:24 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.12824.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All

I'm VERY new to stained glass (4 months).  I am currently working on my
fifth
project, a 17"x14" version of the pattern on the cover of Smith/Abbott's
"Star Gazing" pattern book, which will be a gift to my daughter.  I did
tailor it a little, however, to
make the cutting a little easier for a novice.  Some of the original lines
on the
original pattern would have been absolutely impossible for me!

Thank you all in this group for the wealth of invaluable information.  I've
been going
through the archives, and have learned so much:  I ran out an bought
Ringstar
pliers (they're fabulous), I have a good idea which grinder to purchase
when I'm
ready, and I do solemnly swear I will never purchase an Ed Sibbett pattern
book!

I also now realize that I have a long way to go in my cutting skills.  I am
in awe
of all you folks who decry the use of grinders!  I take a class once a week
at a
community adult school, and usually spend most of my time on the grinder!

I have two questions:  

1.  Some of you have mentioned seeing a Vickie Payne on television giving
stained     glass tips.  What is the program actually called?  Is this a
program that can be     seen in Southern California?  Does anyone now the
time and schedule?

2.  I have a 650 degree heat  gun that  I used years ago to "swell" puffy
paint.  The     box says it is meant to remove paint and remelt adhesives. 
Does anyone have
    an opinion on:

     (a)  Would it help in removing tacky wax from lamps after
          using the molds?

     (b)  Is it too hot to use for warming up hard-to-cut glass?

Again, thanks for all the great tips.  I hope someday I'll be able to give
even a tiny
bit of what I'm getting!

Margie P.
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 10:24:35 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Your comments, please
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 13:30:01 +0000
Message-ID: <199704051818.NAA19654@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi, everyone! I am just putting the finishing touches on a glass 
studio's site and would appreciate it if you'd take a look and tell 
me what you think. This is the new site of Cummings Studios, quite 
well known for its restoration work:

http://www.cummingsstudios.com

I've also been playing with my own pages at

http://www.aiap.com/aldesign.htm  What do you think?

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 11:18:15 1997
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From: robert crane <robertcrane@thezone.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: computer generated heraldry
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 15:54:18 -0330
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.12618.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: thezone
Precedence: bulk

I was wondering if any of the group knew of a computer program which 
generated coats of arms. I have seen this in malls and also ads on the 
internet for family coats of arms by I am interested in the computer 
program which actually generates the product. Thanks to anyone who is 
able to supply any information.
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 12:10:25 1997
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>,
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Summary: Authenticated sender is <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 13:14:57 +0000
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

On  5 Apr 97, Albert Lewis wrote:

> Hi, everyone! I am just putting the finishing touches on a glass
> studio's site and would appreciate it if you'd take a look and tell
> me what you think. This is the new site of Cummings Studios, quite
> well known for its restoration work:
> 
> http://www.cummingsstudios.com
> 
> I've also been playing with my own pages at
> 
> http://www.aiap.com/aldesign.htm  What do you think?
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
> _________________________________________________________
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]
Albert,

tried the cummings site and got an "no URL" error message.

You site if gorgeous thos
Blessed Be

Myrddn

Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity!


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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 13:46:06 1997
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Thanks Bungians!
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 16:41:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.114159.0>
References: <<1997Apr5.12824.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Margaret Palomino wrote:
> 
> Hi All
> 
> I'm VERY new to stained glass (4 months).  I am currently working on my
> fifth
> project, a 17"x14" version of the pattern on the cover of Smith/Abbott's
> "Star Gazing" pattern book, which will be a gift to my daughter.  I did
> tailor it a little, however, to
> make the cutting a little easier for a novice.  Some of the original lines
> on the
> original pattern would have been absolutely impossible for me!
> 
> Thank you all in this group for the wealth of invaluable information.  I've
> been going
> through the archives, and have learned so much:  I ran out an bought
> Ringstar
> pliers (they're fabulous), I have a good idea which grinder to purchase
> when I'm
> ready, and I do solemnly swear I will never purchase an Ed Sibbett pattern
> book!
> 
> I also now realize that I have a long way to go in my cutting skills.  I am
> in awe
> of all you folks who decry the use of grinders!  I take a class once a week
> at a
> community adult school, and usually spend most of my time on the grinder!
> 
> I have two questions:
> 
> 1.  Some of you have mentioned seeing a Vickie Payne on television giving
> stained     glass tips.  What is the program actually called?  Is this a
> program that can be     seen in Southern California?  Does anyone now the
> time and schedule?
> 
> 2.  I have a 650 degree heat  gun that  I used years ago to "swell" puffy
> paint.  The     box says it is meant to remove paint and remelt adhesives.
> Does anyone have
>     an opinion on:
> 
>      (a)  Would it help in removing tacky wax from lamps after
>           using the molds?
> 
>      (b)  Is it too hot to use for warming up hard-to-cut glass?
> 
> Again, thanks for all the great tips.  I hope someday I'll be able to give
> even a tiny
> bit of what I'm getting!
> 
> Margie P.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it's called Vicki Payne, or vivki payne's stained glass. it's usally
found on some cheapo network. i know it's been on for me at 12 midnite,
then stopped and i never saw it again.

as for the heat gun, it is to hot, it may cause thermal shock to the
glass, and it may melt, if not warp your mold. the autobody industry
uses it to carefully bend back a bent bumper cover. i'd use a hair
drier, it'll get the job done, should be asfer to use, and there's less
of a chance of you burning yourself.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 15:50:23 1997
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X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn
From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Molds
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 18:53:07 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.10537.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Give us a try before you buy ... Call or E-Mail us
Thanks 
Walter and Rhonda
The Craft Nook, Inc.
227 South 8th. Street
Fernandina Bch., Fla.
32034
1-800-458-6292
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 16:01:04 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 18:57:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.135725.0>
References: <<1997Apr5.6294.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> > and again, why do you fill the cutters with oil??????????
In an attempt to answaer the question of the century, I brought up an
old Scientici American article about the effect of water on a fault in
glass. Someone posted the URL of SI, and their archive goes back a year,
for the "New' SI. There is and "Old' si, but they stop at 1895 or
something. That's before I could read. But there is a 'Ask the
Scientist' section on the home page. I posted our inquiry, and will
forward to the group if and when I get an answer.
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 16:47:51 1997
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Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:53:01 -0500
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 18:51:39 1997
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X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro
From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Thanks Bungians!
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 18:51:17 -0800
Message-ID: <199704060251.SAA16771@mars.ark.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Margie--Vicki Payne can be seen on the 'Nostalgia Channel' on satalite (it
is an unscrambled channel) on Sunday Morning at 8:00--to 9:00 Am. (it
varies!!) and also on the same channel on Wednesdays at 9:00 to 9:30 A.M.
>To help with your cutting practise, go to a regular glass shop and ask them
for broken pieces of plain glass--they usually just toss them out and you
can practice cutting on them without ruining your good stained glass.  oh
yeah--with that tidbit comes this--you will ALWAYS break the last piece you
cut at 11:00 pm on saturday night when the glass shop is closed for the
weekend and you have no more....don't despare...bin there done that.
>>Good luck and welcome aboard....Wayne


>Hi All
>
>I'm VERY new to stained glass (4 months).  I am currently working on my
>fifth
>project, a 17"x14" version of the pattern on the cover of Smith/Abbott's
>"Star Gazing" pattern book, which will be a gift to my daughter.  I did
>tailor it a little, however, to
>make the cutting a little easier for a novice.  Some of the original lines
>on the
>original pattern would have been absolutely impossible for me!
>
>Thank you all in this group for the wealth of invaluable information.  I've
>been going
>through the archives, and have learned so much:  I ran out an bought
>Ringstar
>pliers (they're fabulous), I have a good idea which grinder to purchase
>when I'm
>ready, and I do solemnly swear I will never purchase an Ed Sibbett pattern
>book!
>
>I also now realize that I have a long way to go in my cutting skills.  I am
>in awe
>of all you folks who decry the use of grinders!  I take a class once a week
>at a
>community adult school, and usually spend most of my time on the grinder!
>
>I have two questions:  
>
>1.  Some of you have mentioned seeing a Vickie Payne on television giving
>stained     glass tips.  What is the program actually called?  Is this a
>program that can be     seen in Southern California?  Does anyone now the
>time and schedule?
>
>2.  I have a 650 degree heat  gun that  I used years ago to "swell" puffy
>paint.  The     box says it is meant to remove paint and remelt adhesives. 
>Does anyone have
>    an opinion on:
>
>     (a)  Would it help in removing tacky wax from lamps after
>          using the molds?
>
>     (b)  Is it too hot to use for warming up hard-to-cut glass?
>
>Again, thanks for all the great tips.  I hope someday I'll be able to give
>even a tiny
>bit of what I'm getting!
>
>Margie P.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 20:52:30 1997
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X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 23:51:12 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr5.235112.0>
References: <<199704051818.NAA19654@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> ...http://www.cummingsstudios.com
> 
> I've also been playing with my own pages at
> 
> http://www.aiap.com/aldesign.htm  What do you think?...


Hello, Albert.

The cummingsstudio was unreachable. No URL existed.

Your site looks great!!! I ***loved*** that the graphics were bold,
interesting, and QUICK loading. On the front page, the grey type against
the blue (world?) and the grey (sky?) is a little hard to read. Just a
shade darker would help. On the clients page, Warner-C,
McKarnar...(couldn't read the rest) and the IGGA logos either overlapped
or seemed to overlap. I changed the size of my window several times, but
this didn't go away.

Otherwise, you have a winner.

Take care,
Hilary
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 21:02:38 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: A pleasant surprise
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 00:02:21 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr6.0221.0>
References: <<199704051818.NAA19654@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

Tonight I had a pleasant surprise. As a hobbyist, I never really have to
nor want to worry about the fair market value of my work. But our church
had an art auction and I donated a piece to be bid on. I had seen pieces
of the same ilk at a recent craft show selling for $175-$250. Having
terrific self-confidence I put the minimum bid at $75. It went for
$170!! I had *no* idea how *good* that would feel. I had lived in terror
that NO ONE would bid on it! It was a pleasant surprise. But I am
sooooooo glad that this is a hobby and not a living.

Sighs of relief,
Hilary
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 21:30:36 1997
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Thanks Bungians!
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 21:30:06 -0800
Message-ID: <199704060530.VAA26558@norm.island.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

2.  I have a 650 degree heat  gun that  I used years ago to "swell" puffy
>paint.  The     box says it is meant to remove paint and remelt adhesives. 
>Does anyone have
>    an opinion on:
>
>     (a)  Would it help in removing tacky wax from lamps after
>          using the molds?
>
>     (b)  Is it too hot to use for warming up hard-to-cut glass?

Marjie, welcome to glass. I think the gun might be too hot for warming glass
unless you keep it moving.  If I'm warming sheets I just stick them behind
the wood stove for a bit.  Before I foil glass, I either put it in a metal
pan on the wood stove, or in warmer weather place them in an old electric
frypan (garage sale ilk) to warm before foiling.  This seems to make the
foil adhere better.  I usually have the electric fry pan on about 200 oF and
find that makes the glass plenty hot to handle.

About the tacky wax, I have no idea.

Cheers

Carol 
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 21:57:03 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 01:02:15 +0000
Message-ID: <199704060556.AAA18953@brickell.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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try: 
> > http://www.cummingsstudio.com



> > I've also been playing with my own pages at
> > 
> > http://www.aiap.com/aldesign.htm  What do you think?
> > 
> > Albert
> > 
> > Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> > International Guild of Glass Artists
> > A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> > Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
> > _________________________________________________________
> > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
> > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]
> Albert,
> 
> tried the cummings site and got an "no URL" error message.
> 
> You site if gorgeous thos
> Blessed Be
> 
> Myrddn
> 
> Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity!
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To
> send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives
> available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
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From owner-glass Sat Apr  5 22:15:58 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: A pleasant surprise
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 97 22:14:18 -0500
Message-ID: <199704060615.WAA19643@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Hi Hillary.......I usually do not comment on this type of post, but....
It is quite a rush when people want your work and will PAY for it.

After 15+ years, I too, sometimes have doubts about my work being out there.

I WHOLESALE some smaller shades for a booster auction and have seen the
prices bid up higher than they would have sold retail in a gallery.

Enjoy your fame.....do the best you can, cut no corners, and do not be
afraid to set a high value (but fair) on your work.


enjoy............H


--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 05:10:55 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: computer generated heraldry
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 18:59:00 +0000
Message-ID: <199704061206.IAA02457@ns.computer.net>
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> I was wondering if any of the group knew of a computer program which 
> generated coats of arms. I have seen this in malls and also ads on the 
> internet for family coats of arms by I am interested in the computer 
> program which actually generates the product. Thanks to anyone who is 
> able to supply any information.

Do you mean *real coats of arms for families that really existed? Or 
fake coats of arms for people with no royal background or claim to 
any dynasty that would merit a coat of arms? Or are you talking about 
*glass coats of arms?

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 05:11:06 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 08:17:14 +0000
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> > tried the cummings site and got an "no URL" error message.

Yes, I mis-typed the URL. <sigh> Try

http://www.cummingsstudio.com

Sorry.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 05:11:06 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 08:17:14 +0000
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> Your site looks great!!! I ***loved*** that the graphics were bold,
> interesting, and QUICK loading. On the front page, the grey type against
> the blue (world?) and the grey (sky?) is a little hard to read. Just a
> shade darker would help. On the clients page, Warner-C,
> McKarnar...(couldn't read the rest) and the IGGA logos either overlapped
> or seemed to overlap. I changed the size of my window several times, but
> this didn't go away.

Thanks for your input, Hilary. I'm upset to hear that the logos are 
overlapping; I've trapped each one inside a table and that's 
*supposed to keep them from doing that. There's so much that's 
controlled from the viewer's side of things (type face and size, in 
particular) that has to be kept in mind. It looks fine on *my 
monitor, but it's very helpful to hear how it appears on yours.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 07:57:28 1997
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X-Path: artisticglassusa.com!studio
From: studio@artisticglassusa.com (Artistic Glass of Atlanta)
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:00:46 -0400
Message-ID: <v01510102af6d6a4b44cc@[207.69.148.145]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 9:30 AM 5/4/97, Albert Lewis wrote:
>Hi, everyone! I am just putting the finishing touches on a glass
>studio's site and would appreciate it if you'd take a look and tell
>me what you think. This is the new site of Cummings Studios, quite
>well known for its restoration work:
>
>http://www.cummingsstudios.com
>
>I've also been playing with my own pages at
>
>http://www.aiap.com/aldesign.htm  What do you think?
>
>Albert
>

Albert,

        I was unable to pull up the cummings site.

        Your site looks good.  On the clients page the Guild Sign overlaps
the McKernan sign.  Also on the same page the wording below Art in
Architecture Press, Inc. is almost completely unreadable against the gray
background.  Other than those minor things, which should be pretty easy to
adjust,  I think it looks great!

        -Michael

Michael Delaware
www.artisticglassusa.com
michael@artisticglassusa.com


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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 08:59:02 1997
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Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 10:57:42 -0500 (CDT)
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glass-request@bungi.com

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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 11:23:58 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Thanks everyone
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 14:30:09 +0000
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My gratitude to everyone who commented on my site and Cummings' ... 
your input was invaluable and I managed to catch and clean up some 
glitches.  Those of you who haven't looked at the stained glass 
restoration's site-in-progress, the correct URL's 
http://www.cummingsstudio.com and my new-and-improved-thanks- 
to-the-people-on-bungi.com site is http://www.aiap.com/aldesign.htm

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 14:10:10 1997
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From: Nancyohara@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 17:09:29 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr6.13929.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn,

I am new to this bungi. com thing, but I would really like to get any
information I can about the Mosaic stones.  I have been doing stained glass
for 10 years on and  off, mostly off recently, but am anxious to get back
into it.  The idea of the Mosaics seems terrific but I am not clear on how
they come together.  From the sound of the other messages, it does not appear
to have any soldering involved but would use up all those boxes of glass
pieces I have had lying around for ever.  Any info would be greatly
appreciated.  Thanks!
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 14:21:18 1997
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Thanks Bungians!
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 17:20:41 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr6.132041.0>
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haven't been able to find the archives....having a blonde weekend i
think...lost keys, jewelry, my way to my sisters house......sheesh.   Any
direction appreciated....
and whats with the Ed Sibett thing?

losing my head, i think
maureen
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 14:36:32 1997
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From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 17:35:49 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970406164706.246f96b6@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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I may need some clarifications on this question .... I am hearing "why do
you fill the cutters  with OIL???" not, why do you use oil on glass?  I
would guess that you use oil on glass to reduce (or eliminate) friction....
Perhaps the question is "why do you FILL the cutters with oil?  I don't fill
it more than about a teaspoon at a time.... (mine leaks, too).  And as for
"OIL" it would seem to me that oil would reduce friction better than water,
or are there other fluids to choose from?  Or... is using it empty and
dipped into oil better?  Or .... does using nothing work just as well (or
better) as using oil or using water... (I have never used water or nothing.)
Ain't this language grand?

At 06:57 PM 4/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> > and again, why do you fill the cutters with oil??????????
>In an attempt to answaer the question of the century, I brought up an
>old Scientici American article about the effect of water on a fault in
>glass. Someone posted the URL of SI, and their archive goes back a year,
>for the "New' SI. There is and "Old' si, but they stop at 1895 or
>something. That's before I could read. But there is a 'Ask the
>Scientist' section on the home page. I posted our inquiry, and will
>forward to the group if and when I get an answer.
>----
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>
B.

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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 15:40:38 1997
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From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 15:34:58 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr6.83458.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970406164706.246f96b6@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
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Barbara wrote:
> or are there other fluids to choose from?  Or... is using it empty and
> dipped into oil better?  Or .... does using nothing work just as well (or
> better) as using oil or using water... (I have never used water or nothing.)


Barbara,
          If you use nothing, you will wear out your cutting wheel way
too fast, get real crapy score lines and have problems snapping the
glass.  
          As for using it empty and dipping, I do fill my pencil grip
with oil but I need to pump the spring to get it oiling the wheel so I
took some paper towels and cut about a 6 layer round that would fit in
the lid of my oil container, (any kind of lid will do) soaked it with
oil, and before each cut I roll my cutting wheel across it a couple of
times.  I have been doing glass since 1979 except for about 6 years out
of that stretch and I have yet to have to replace my cutting wheel. Go
figure!  Everything else I ever buy wears out!!

Just my two cents...Melissa
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 16:01:15 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:00:40 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr6.15040.0>
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Just thought you would like to know about the oil/ other liquid thing. First
off, it does help reduce friction, and help score better. Second, the cutters
are generally made of carbon steel or similar, and oil helps reduce chances
of rust, and also helps the cutter live for years. Ever keep a razor in oil?
Lasts alot longer, huh? 

Check out Spectrum's web site -   www.spectrumglass.com/       They have an
article in information archives about the properties of glass & also an
article about cutting underwater with scissors!!!!   
 
Also, the product instructions that came with my new Toyo say to use Kerosene
and to fill never more than half full. It says a thicker fluid is likely to
cause clogging. Anyone use kerosene???    Kris

P.S. I am happy to say that the company I bought my leaky Toyo from has
agreed to replace it!!!! I had tried everything you wonderful people
suggested, and nothing worked. I actually think the plastic was not formed
correctly and has acrack in it. Anyways, I can't wait to get one that is not
leaky!!!!
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 16:33:41 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Thanks Bungians!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:40:00 +0000
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> having a blonde weekend

Hey! No blondism's allowed here!

Albert (a dirty blond ... well, mostly grey)

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 17:12:44 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: A pleasant surprise
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 00:23:03 +0000
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Hi Hilary and all Bunginians,

Conggratulations! Never underestimate yourself! But - as Howard says 
- don't cut corners either.
Had a similar experience a few years ago with a copper-foil clock I 
had donated for an an auction to raise funds for a Rudolf Steiner school arts 
scholarship. I am a "lead"-person and my confidence with copper-foil  
somewhat "lacking".  It was a simple pendulum clock. I put a price of 
about USD.150 on it -  and it sold for 600.

Peggy Johnson  (a fellow US Bunginian) and I have spent today cutting 
glass according to the English method.  My US Bunginian "chickens" 
and I are now back from Chartres in France. It was an experience of a 
life-time and once I have waded through my 500-odd e-mail messages, I 
will begin to tell you all about it, as well as keeping all sorts of 
other "promises" I have made.
Elisabeth and Toby are back in circulation (sort of).

Good luck Hilary and have courage!
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 17:12:46 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Dave Rand solves problem!   Yeaaaa!!!!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 00:23:03 +0000
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Hi Lee (and All)
Thanks for putting me on the spot!!!! I took prints, Peggy took 
slides, Kathe bought a disposable camera, and.... and....
In any case, what I intend to do (though it will take a little 
time...) is to make a write-up about our visit, complete with pics 
and send it to whosoever can translate it into something visible on 
the Net in the Group....
Lee Boe wrote:
 From now on if we have
images we want to share, we can do as he suggests.  Especially the
pictures Elisabeth is getting of the bungianian groups Chartres trip. 

Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 17:12:47 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 00:23:03 +0000
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Hi All,
Catching up here. Don't know if this is Round 2 or Round 3.
I have a number of oil cutters, including one of the pistol grip 
(which leaks als. Will try the idea of stuffing cotton wool  into it, 
as someone suggested).
As lubricant for my oil cutters, I have been taught here in the UK to 
use just "white spirit". It is not as "heavy" as sewing macchine oil 
or 3-in-1.
Peggy Johnson and I discussed it this afternoon aand I realize now 
that the term "white spirit" might mean nothing to you. She had a 
"sniff" at the white spirit and thought it was what you call kerosene 
- except that it isn't. I looked up in my Chamber's Dictionary of 
Science & Technology for a definition: " Petroleum distillate used as 
a substitute for turpentine".
My English-Swedish scientific  dictionary translates it as :  "mineral 
turpentine,  crystal oil, varnolene".
Into this, I squirt a couple of dashes of WD-40.
That's my "cutting oil" .... and my 2 cents worth.
Helpful??
Elisabeth 'n Toby
Myrddn wrote:

. What do you use for oil?
> Blessed Be
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 17:12:49 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Dave Rand solves problem!  
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 00:23:03 +0000
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Hi Dave & Glenna,
When I have got that far, will consult with you first. Maybe 
"hard-copy" through snail-mail might also be useful. Dunno.
But then I am still a computer "nerd". Have only the very, very 
basics off computer/Internet system..
Another question to you (Dave & Glenna) Might I have "graduated" to 
being listed  in my own rights as "North Lights".?? "Kris" (my 
computer guru) has set up my web-page and got me hooked up to 
"Glass@Bungi", but the link is listed & named as "Kris Gallery" (or 
something like that). He has asked you a couple of times on my behalf 
to change that (to establish my independence). No success so 
far....... Have I earned my "stripes" enough for you to help me to do 
something about this??
Elisabeth 'n Toby
 
Dave Rand wrote:

Those letters and numbers are a coding system that allows binary
attachments to be sent through email systems.  In general, please
do not send attachments through a mailing list (it clutters everyone's
email, even those that are not interested).  If you have images you
wish others to see, please email them directly to Glenna or me, and
we will place them on the web page.


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 17:56:50 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mos
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:01:30 +0000
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Nancy,

Since you are on aol, try seraching the boards there. In crafts niche 
there are two spots where mosaics and stepping stones are discussed 
at some length. One is on "other crafts board" there is a mosaics 
folder. The other place is on the stained glass board where there is 
a glass stepping stone folder.

Good stuff there.

M.-J.

On  6 Apr 97,  I found these words from Nancyohara@aol.com in my 
mailbox:

> Dawn,
> 
> I am new to this bungi. com thing, but I would really like to get
> any information I can about the Mosaic stones.  I have been doing
> stained glass for 10 years on and  off, mostly off recently, but am
> anxious to get back into it.  The idea of the Mosaics seems terrific
> but I am not clear on how they come together.  From the sound of the
> other messages, it does not appear to have any soldering involved
> but would use up all those boxes of glass pieces I have had lying
> around for ever.  Any info would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!
> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list,      please mail to:
> glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails. (Unknown)

 
                                              |\                ( )
 _____________________________________________|_\_____________________
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 19:29:14 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 22:25:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr6.18257.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970406164706.246f96b6@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I was taught to never score dry - we were given a recipe of 8 parts
kerosene to 1 part light machine oil (such as 3 in 1).
Before I bought a Toyo cutter, I used a Fletcher without a resivoir, but
dipped the cutter in a jar of the mixture. I remember my father using
kerosene with one of the 'generic' hardware store cutters when repairing
windows around the house.  I guess we'll have to wait for the Scientic
American people to shed some light on this. 
 I may need some clarifications on this question .... I am hearing "why
do
> you fill the cutters  with OIL???" not, why do you use oil on glass?  I
> would guess that you use oil on glass to reduce (or eliminate) friction....
> Perhaps the question is "why do you FILL the cutters with oil?  I don't fill
> it more than about a teaspoon at a time.... (mine leaks, too).  And as for
> "OIL" it would seem to me that oil would reduce friction better than water,
> or are there other fluids to choose from?  Or... is using it empty and
> dipped into oil better?  Or .... does using nothing work just as well (or
> better) as using oil or using water... (I have never used water or nothing.)
> Ain't this language grand?
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 19:58:50 1997
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From: Doug Scale <proffire@ebtech.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: using paint stripper for heating glass
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 23:00:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr6.1909.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Margie,

Haven't tried that particular heater but i did use a portable ceramic
heater in my workshop to keep me warm this past winter.  When i tried to
use it to heat glass before scoring i found it did not heat the glass
evenly and some of my cuts went everywhere but where I wanted them. Some
of the glass was really hot to touch but other areas could be handled. 
Think someone else also stated about the uneven heating you might get
and thus the uneven breaking.

 Try it on some scraps before using on your working glass.  If it works
let us know.

Doug Scale
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 20:10:25 1997
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From: Bubstah@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 23:09:35 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr6.19935.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I had suggested the other day - try using lamp oil, it is cheap and it works
great.
Thanks for all your tips.  Now it is my turn to share.
Bubstah
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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 22:07:45 1997
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From: George Kjaer <gkjaer@pond.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gold Electroplate
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 22:07:18 -0700
Message-ID: <199704070507.WAA28940@guppy.pond.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi 

There are new plating fluids that do not require cyanide as a base.  Cant
find the flyer which came about 6 months ago but the Rio Grande Jewelry Tool
and Supplies (1-800545 6566) probably can supply the stuff although they are
pretty committed to selling their Midas line of plating equipment.  They are
very accomodating and nice to work with.  They will send you a complete
catalog for the asking.

Also read some older jewelry devices using a battery charger to provice the
rectified current at three amps.  Read it in a book in a second hand shop in
San Diego waiting for my wife to look at the antiques there.  Should have
bought the book but I didnt and it wasnt there next time I got there.  To
plate on glass you probably will have to put on three layers starting with
graphite, then a layer of copper and then the gold.

gkjaer@pond.net



At 07:59 PM 3/29/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I would echo Mike Savad on this, I just bought an electroplate kit,which
>I have not had a chance to try out yet.  I am also a Jeweler, and have
>experience with electroplating,and gold leafing, or I would not try it. 
>The larger electroplating equipment is quite expensive, and unless you
>have a laboratory setting very dangerous to use. Must use Cyanide. Try
>to find a commercial plating company in your area to do this.  Yes, it
>does work.  Plating can be done in nickel, silver, chrome, gold, etc. 
>You just have to find a commercial outfit that will do it.  Volume
>helps.  There is one in Minnesota, I think, that does the work for
>Stained glass artists, at a pretty reasonable rate.  And can reship it
>to you in your original crates (boxes, whatever)  It is more economical
>to find a local company if there is one in your area.  If you wish, I
>can dig out the info. and address of the Minnesota Co....
>
>Lee Boe
>Rain-Boe's Creations
>
>Tina & David Plummer wrote:
>> 
>> Just thought I'd introduce myself to the group.  I have been doing glass =
>> for about 7 years as a hobby.
>> I am wondering about how to add a gold electroplate to ornaments.
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 22:16:33 1997
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From: George Kjaer <gkjaer@pond.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Plant Sconces
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 22:16:04 -0700
Message-ID: <199704070516.WAA29139@guppy.pond.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Hi 

My wife just finished the Master Gardener class and tells me the proper
ratio is:
        Garden Loam 1 part
        Vermiculite 1/2 part
        Perllite or Sand  1 part
        Peat Moss         1 part
        Add one tspn superphosphate to each quart of this mix.  For a richer
mix use compost instead of the peat moss.

She points I dig.
gkjaer@pond.net



At 03:53 PM 3/30/97 -0100, you wrote:
>Hi, I am getting ready to make plant sconces in stained glass.  I have
>limited amount of kitchen counter space and thought that having my herbs
>hang on the wall would give me the herbs and have some nice glass pieces
>hanging around the kitchen.. I know that this is not the stained glass
>that I need help with, but I know we have a wide range of fellowcraftmen
>that might help me.. Does anyone have the ratio for for non organic
>potting soil.. I found some vermiculite, peat moss and perlite in the
>basement.. I know longer remember there mixture.. 
>Thanks,
>Gloria
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Apr  6 22:28:20 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Are you in supply sales?
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 01:27:46 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr6.212746.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Looking to correspond with someone who works in the business selling retail
or has started their own business. Taking the plunge & opening a store soon-
still in the planning stages, but looking for as much advice, wisdom &
mentoring as possible from someone who has been there. I now own a home
studio. Thanks,     Kris 
PS please email me @ krissymar@aol.com
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 03:29:20 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Plant Sconces
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 06:28:49 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.22849.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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     To:  Gloria
 From:  Eleanor (Yegnim@aol)

 I am looking for some unusual pieces to make and I have never encountered
herb/plant sconces before.  Would you share info with me?  Did you use a
custom pattern or make your own?  What hardware for hanging do you intend to
use?  I would love to see what they look like!  Could you send me a pattern
with instructions?  If you e-mail me personally I can give you my mailing
address as I don't believe we are supposed to give that info on bungi space.
 I will be happy to pay any postage due.

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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 05:05:35 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:wood@telalink.net" <wood@telalink.net>,
Subject: Re: butterfly molds
Date: 07 Apr 97 08:01:28 EDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.12128.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Message text written by INTERNET:wood@telalink.net
>No one has mentioned using the 4 1/4" tile mold or the 24" tree ring
molds yet. I thought these were a good idea. The tile mold takes a
different kind of cement because it is so thin.<

I make three test tiles using the 4 1/4" tile mold, and am not terribly
impressed.  I used Quickcrete and had terrible results, as the little rocks in
the concrete were too large for such a thin mold.  I think the 4 1/4" mold is
just too thin to begin with, but I am still trying to get a good, clean tile out
of it.  I am going to try again and screen out the rocks from the Quickcrete.
Another option is to switch over to Portland cement or something much finer than
Quickcrete.

On the other hand, I did two stepping stones using the double brick (8 x 8)
mold, using Quickcrete and a chicken wire mesh for internal support, and they
turned out nicely.  In fact, sold them this weekend at a show for $35 a piece.
But I'm just not happy with the 4 1/4" tiles.

Anybody else have experience (hopefully better than mine) with these little
tiles?
...Christie

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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 06:10:52 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: Thanks Bungians!
Date:         Mon, 07 Apr 97 09:05:19 EDT
Message-ID:   <970407.090927.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<199704060251.SAA16771@mars.ark.com>>
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As Wayne says...(it was Wayne, wasn't it...my memory is so short when
Daylight Savings Time begins and I'm feeling sleep deprived), you'll
break the last piece of glass on Saturday evening...glass store won't
be open until Tuesday...and the piece should be done on Monday.  That's
when you think..."Gee, you know, I think a pattern line would look real
good there.  yup, right across the leaf the wrong way.  Add some
interest to the design."
Dorothy

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 07:08:43 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:06:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.6642.0>
References: <<1997Apr6.18257.0>>
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shyguy wrote:
> 
> I was taught to never score dry - we were given a recipe of 8 parts
> kerosene to 1 part light machine oil (such as 3 in 1).
> Before I bought a Toyo cutter, I used a Fletcher without a resivoir, but
> dipped the cutter in a jar of the mixture. I remember my father using
> kerosene with one of the 'generic' hardware store cutters when repairing
> windows around the house.  I guess we'll have to wait for the Scientic
> American people to shed some light on this.
>  I may need some clarifications on this question .... I am hearing "why
> do
> > you fill the cutters  with OIL???" not, why do you use oil on glass?  I
> > would guess that you use oil on glass to reduce (or eliminate) friction....
> > Perhaps the question is "why do you FILL the cutters with oil?  I don't fill
> > it more than about a teaspoon at a time.... (mine leaks, too).  And as for
> > "OIL" it would seem to me that oil would reduce friction better than water,
> > or are there other fluids to choose from?  Or... is using it empty and
> > dipped into oil better?  Or .... does using nothing work just as well (or
> > better) as using oil or using water... (I have never used water or nothing.)
> > Ain't this language grand?
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i use a mix of 50 kerosene to 50 3-in-1, i always pour some into my
cutter. i never believed in putting it into a jar, because no matter
what was in the bottom, weither it was paper towel, steel wool, cotton,
etc, you are still dropping the cutter on it's wheel. you would through
a diamond ring around, most people place it down. there's still a chance
of messing up the axel, or putting a nick in the wheel. and of course
you wind up getting may more oil on the glass that you should be. 

if you have the gold tip fletcher-terry series cutter, you'll notice the
amount of oil that should be laid down; not very much. i forget the
person who mentioned the wd-40 on glass bevels, i'd be real carefull
doing this, mainly because if your not paying attention for even a split
second as your breaking it, your fingers could slide into the break, and
give you a good cut.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 07:32:23 1997
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From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 09:40:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.44028.0>
References: <<199704051818.NAA19654@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> Hi, everyone!  This is the new site of Cummings Studios, 
> 
> http://www.cummingsstudios.com
> 
>
Albert,
hi.  i tried to retrieve this URL and i can't get in - is the URL
correct?  Linn
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 07:43:10 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: white spirits
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:37:26 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970407084535.1cafabfe@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi all;
        I was buying expensive "white spirits" in little jars for my
painting on glass, and a friend who is a profesional oil painter and teacher
told me that it was no more and no less than turpentine , certainly I found
I could use them interchangeably.  Meg

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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 07:43:45 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:37:15 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970407084525.28270538@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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>Also, the product instructions that came with my new Toyo say to use Kerosene
>and to fill never more than half full. It says a thicker fluid is likely to
>cause clogging. Anyone use kerosene???    Kris
>
Actually the  guys who cut window glass for a living here, have a paint
brush in kerosene, and paint the score line with it right before they score.
I tried that in my Toyo pistol grip and it leaked, then I tried a mixture of
3 in 1 oil and kerosene, which leaks, but less... when I really cut down
with the leaking was with the straight 3 in 1 (and a new head).  Meg

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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 07:52:32 1997
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 07:52:06 PDT
Message-ID: <m0wEFmB-00006RC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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[In the message entitled "Re: Cutters, round 2" on Apr  7, 10:06, "M. Savad" writes:]
> shyguy wrote:
> > 
> > I was taught to never score dry - we were given a recipe of 8 parts
> > kerosene to 1 part light machine oil (such as 3 in 1).

Me too...my teacher told me never to score glass without it.


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 08:48:01 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Breaking bevels
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 11:43:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.74350.0>
References: <<1997Apr4.5189.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi Mike & all,

re: Breaking bevels-WD-40.  These are 1" x 2" glass bevels, and I don't
have enough hand or finger strength to break by hand. Even if you do,
don't try to break by hand. Put drops of oil on the cut line, score on
flat side, use a "RingStar" by GlassStar to do the break.  Line up the
top circle on top/pin pivot on score line on flat side. Sqeeze gently. 
I broke over 40 bevels (longwise) and not a mis-break among the lot. If
you don't know what a "RingStar" looks like, go to local glass shop.  It
is not like any other breaker I have seen.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 08:55:07 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:54:42 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.15442.0>
References: <<1997Apr7.44028.0>>
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Rio Grande Valley Museum wrote:
> 
> Albert Lewis wrote:
> >
> > Hi, everyone!  This is the new site of Cummings Studios,
> >
> > http://www.cummingsstudios.com
> >
> >
> Albert,
> hi.  i tried to retrieve this URL and i can't get in - is the URL
> correct?  Linn
> ----

I can't reach this site either.
Bonnie Clark


> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 09:32:14 1997
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 11:31:36 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530507af6edfce2a32@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Looks like the URL should have been:
http://www.cummingsstudio.com

=Gary


>Rio Grande Valley Museum wrote:
>>
>> Albert Lewis wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi, everyone!  This is the new site of Cummings Studios,
>> >
>> > http://www.cummingsstudios.com
>> >
>> >
>> Albert,
>> hi.  i tried to retrieve this URL and i can't get in - is the URL
>> correct?  Linn
>> ----
>
>I can't reach this site either.
>Bonnie Clark
>
>
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 10:15:37 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stepping Stones
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 12:18:53 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.191853.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.04432.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your mail reader is not using the MIME attachment standard.
To read all of this message, use a MIME V1.0 compliant reader.

Some parts of this message may be in a human readable form.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


--860440734=_Mail_2_=1218325718
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bonnie,

The file I'm attaching is just my own compilation of the exchanges that =
took place regarding stepping stones and mosaics.  It covers all the arch=
ives, from the inception of Bungi through the last archives posted (March=
, 1997).  It's in ASCII format and I just saved it and pulled it into my =
wordprocessing program when I tested it out, and that seemed to work fine=
.  I hope some of the information in the posts are helpful to you.

Dawn

--860440734=_Mail_2_=1218325718
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="STONES.TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

                   STEPPING STONES AND MOSAICS

Hi Kathy,
I have several questions about these stones, not the least of which is =
why
the forms cost so much money!!! As I understand it they have to cure for =
at
least three days before they can be taken out of the form. At this rate =
it
will either cost $$$$$$$$ to be able to make them or I  can settle to mak=
e
three of four using just one form. However, I'm curious about how well =
the
wood forms hold up. Do the sides have to slope at an angle or can they =
be
straight up & down? It seems that if I would want to color the concrete =
mix
I would need to be able to do a large number at a time so that I would =
get
all the same color.  

Also, do you have to grind down the edges of the glass so the edges are =
not
flat?

And, what kind of glass would do best in these stones? It seems as though
the opaque would probably be best, maybe?

I make wedding cakes as a hobby and I have a whole closet of wilton bakin=
g
pans in all different shapes and sizes, mostly about 2" deep, that are =
no
longer usable to bake in. I would like to know if it would be possible =
to
make the stones in these. I want to continue to support our local glass =
shop
but the owner is adamant that they can't be make in anything but the
commercial form. Kathy, I'd love to hear what you think of the stepping
stones after you take that class.  Thanks

----

From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re:stepping stones
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 18:50:27 GMT

I've got all 3 plastic forms and use them frequently - I make stones as
house gifts when I go to visit gardening friends.

opalescent glass works best and I've found that if I grond the edges
slightly, I like the finish better.

the plastic forms make for easy removal - and work better than the wooden
forms I'd tried earlier

I'm now working on a benchdesign for my own garden, which will complement
the 12 stones I've made  for myself if flower patterns of plants I have =
in
my garden.

----

I'd originally thought of selling the stones, but see no way to recoup =
the
time and materials unless selling direct. probably the offshore market =
will
latch onto this as they have lamps, and make it harder of us to compete.I=
'm
really tired of explaining to potential customers at shows why I can't
compete price wise with 'those tiffany lamps ' made by dale tiffany - of
course, I don't have assembly line factories in taiwan & korea - and when
you  look at my lamps, they look as polished on the inside as they do on =
the
outside, which most of the offshore models don't....but it's like explain=
ing
to someone who stopped by my stand at a show in Maine and commented that =
he
really liked the beercan airplanes better than my stained glass kaleidesc=
ope
ones and that I'd sell alot more if I made them in beer cans - just look =
at
the business the guy with the beer cans was doing (he was right - the man
clean up....but I don't want to make stuff out of beer cans.....)

----

    The stones that were on display at my supplier's were done in 
opalescent glass(an irridesent red was stunning) and the colors were 
so bright and vibrant.

----

From: BLFstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: stepping stones
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 03:51:03 -0500

I, too, have all three molds - two of each.  They really are great and =
will
last pratically forever.  I only leave mine in the molds for 36 - 48 hour=
s.
 The book suggests 3 to 5 days, but there seems to be no need if you want=
 to
keep churning them out.  I pour three at a time, so I don't have to mix =
up
the cement so often.  

If you make your own molds, just be sure to coat them with petroleum jell=
y to
ensure you can get them out.  (Another reason for not waiting too long =
to
remove them from the mold).  

Use opalescent or irridized glass.  Cathedral glass would allow the concr=
ete
to show through and add a grey cast to your glass.  The colors are really
quite vibrant and quite attractive.  Don't hesitate to use art glass, as =
the
cheaper glass will probably not please you.  

The book and addtional patterns are all quite good and easy to follow. =
 But
don't hesitate to use other patterns you think would be nice.  I've used =
a
butterfly and a cat pattern - had to be enlarged and a border added, but =
that
was easy.  Lots of possibilities to customize to your liking.  They're =
lots
of fun  -  and no lead or solder!  Have fun.  Barbara

----

From: "Lisa Anne Rosochacki" <rosochac@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: stepping stones
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:02:34 -0500 (EST)

Hi
There has been some talk about the stepping stones... I thought that I =
could
add my 2 cents... I teach all of the stepping stone classes at the store =
that I
work at so i have had some experience with them.

I too am not totally sold on the forms... I think that they are a bit pri=
cy for
what you get.  About two weeks ago I was experimenting with a new for tha=
t is
also plastic but not quite as stiff as the Tiffany Garden one, this new =
one is
also a hexagon, but it costs about half the price of the other one and =
in my
oppinion it works better.... the stones come out alot easier.  You don't =
need
to use petrolium jelly on it (not that I did) to take out the stones you =
just
give it a twist and they pop right out.  Also the corners are a bit sharp=
er and
they yeild a cleaner edge.  I have also used pans...like old cake pans...=
those
you need to make sure that you "grease" real well.

As far as glass.... I like the opals best... I have found that the Bullse=
ye,
Oceana, Uroboros and Youghiogheny glass make the best stones...the glass =
has a
neat luster in and of itself.  In fact some of the glass looks better in =
stones
than it does in a window.  I have had students that wanted to use cathedr=
als
glass and have been sorry that they didn't spend the money on an opal... =
also I
have seen the iridescent glass used, and that looks neat too...one studen=
t used
an Armstrong wispy amber and white iridescent and put the irisdescent inw=
ard
against the cement but the glass was just light enough that you could see=
 a
hint of the iridescent through the glass and it gave the glass depth adn =
looked
really neat when it was done.

Patterns:  I have been making some of my own and I have used stained glas=
s
patterns as well... I recently made the Moonrose fairie from the Fairie =
Lights
book...that one turned out ever cool.  A guy that I work with used anothe=
r
stained glass pattern and made a table top for and antique table, and tha=
t
turned out very cool as well.  I try to tell my students that they need =
to
explore other patterns than what are in the book because otherwise they =
will
get board doing the same ones over and over, and unfortunately I think =
that
there is the misconception that the only patterns that can be done are =
those
that say taht they are for mosaic patio stones.

Also, something else that I do that isn't in the book... I use gravel mix
cement and omit the chicken wire... the gravel in the cement provides the
strength adn I then don't have to have a roll of chicken wire around.  =
I
haven't had a problem, and the ones that I made last spring are surviving=
 our
winter here in Michigan.

Well that is my 2 cents...
If anyone has any suggestions or questions please let me know... I'm allw=
ays
looking for more info to pass on to students.
Lisa R.

----

I thought that the price on these new forms was half the price of the oth=
er
ones but they are only about 10.oo cheaper, still it's cheaper and I thin=
k that
they are easier to use.  Oh and to clearify, these forms are the hexagon
ones....I don't know if they have them in the 8x8 or the 4x8, although =
those
forms are very easy to use as it is and they range from 15.95 to 19.95 =
I
believe, at least at our store.

As far as size of the piece of glass to use for the stones...I have never=
 had a
problem with the size...the cement totally supports the glass from the =
back so
it isn't too likely that you would have an area that wasn't supported eno=
ugh to
step on.  In the store we thought that that might be a problem so we set =
our
some square foot pieces of glass and walked on them and they were support=
ed by
the cement floor and they didn't break, and I think that everyone in the =
store
took a shot at walking on them. But then again i don't think that the ide=
a is
to use really large pieces in your design, mosaics inherently use small =
pieces.
TTYL
 Lisa R.

----

Hi Andrea and Gary(and anyone else who hasn't tried stepping stones))
    Yes I can outline the steps (not very briefly) but I will try.Any 
step I accidently leave out ,I hope someone on the list will help me 
out.OK! Here goes!
1.Take your pattern(any pattern is acceptable)and cut out the pieces 
inside the lines.Lead pattern scissors were  mentioned.A space 
of1/8"between pattern pieces is good to allow concrete to flow 
between .Plan to leave a1/4"space around the outside of your pattern 
and the form.
2. Use opaque glass with good surface color as no light will filter 
thru the concrete.Cut as usual but again cut on the inside of your 
line to allow space for concrete.The teachers disagreed on the need 
to grind.One said no but one thought if the glass did not lay flat 
for some reason it could cut someone who dared to walk on it.
3.A form is needed. There are plastic forms on the market or you can 
make wooden ones.Remember to cut  walls with a 71/2 degree 
angle.Coat the area where the bottom and the sides of the mold meet 
with petroleum jelly.This will help release the stone from the mold 
later on.
4.When you have cut and laid out your glass on your pattern,cover the 
glass carefully with a clear sheet of adhesive-backed vinyl to keep 
the glass from moving in the form.Pick up the glass(which is all 
stuck to the vinyl) and place it in the form ,clear vinyl side 
down.If you need to adjust any glass ,now is your last chance..
5.Mix" topping mix"to a creamy thickness and cover  glass with 1/4" 
of mixture.Allow the cement to move between the glass.Remember to 
gently tap the bottom and sides to release air bubbles..
6.Add more topping mix to half fill the form.
7. Use reinforcing wire such as chicken wire or someone suggested old 
wire hangers and lay it on the topping mix careful not to come too 
close to the edges.
8. mix up concrete mix and fill the mold to about 1/2" from the 
top.Again tap sides and bottom for about 5mins to help get rid of 
most of the trapped air.
9. Smooth out the bottom and sop up any extra water that maybe laying 
on the concrete.
10.I read somewhere (perhaps  in theTiffany Garden book) that you 
should leave the stone to harden for approx 3 days.Our instructor 
thought only about 36 hours in the form and 3-5 days out .30 days to 
cure before putting outdoors.
11. Gently turn over the form and gently bang it on the table and if 
all is well, it should pop out.Clean the glass and fill in any little 
spots with a little concrete mixed up to fill air bubbles or 
inperfections.Someone in the seminar suggested coloring the concrete 
with plaster of paris(to give it an off white color) or if doing 
several colored concrete stones be very precise with your 
measurements of concrete and color.
 I hope that answers your questions.Meatloaf pans,muffin pans,round 
cake pans,etc were all suggested forms but Carole,no one was willing 
to comment on the Wilton cake forms."Too risky" was 
the consensus. Too difficult was also mentioned!
    I am not a typist so I will close now so I can still use my fingers =

for the important things in life...like foiling.Jump in everyone to 
fill in any steps I missed!.
 

    In step 11(I think!) I forgot to mention when you pop out the 
stone peel off the vinyl.
    As for topping mix,good question!I am not a masonary engineer by 
trade, so I took my husband with me to the seminar.Topping premix is 
actually a finer mix than concrete(perhaps cement?)Both the cement 
and concrete that was used was a  premixed that was mixed with water.
Maybe someone out there can explain it better.Both bags of powder 
were labelled as premixed concrete and topping mix.(2 different bags)
 Andrea, as for the Wilton cake tins,they are a cake decorators form 
that comes in many different shapes with indentations of different 
pics and characters.Many children's bithday cakes are made this 
way. I think they are aluminum.Perhaps Carole can elaborate on this bette=
r than me.
    Bye for now!
    Kathy

----

From: "Lisa Anne Rosochacki" <rosochac@pilot.msu.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: stepping stones
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:47:12 -0500 (EST)

Hello All,
I thought that I would share my two cents worth on Patio Stones...
I teach the Patio Stones classes at the store that I work at and i have =
a few
pointers that I think you might find helpful.

To begin make sure that you have a copy of your pattern available, not =
just the
original.  Alot of times it's easier to cut and trace than to try to use =
a
light box.  I assume that you all would think of it but I thought that =
I would
still remind you.  I tell my students to start cutting their main image
pieces...say the flower and the foliage and the ribbon (I'm going by the
patterns in the Tiffany Garden book.).  Leave the backgound pieces til =
last
because you can cut those to fit in around any pieces that might not be =
exactly
to the pattern.  Keep in mind that mosaics are not like stained glass in =
that
all the pieces need to fit exactly, alot of people that do stained glass =
try to
cut it all "lock and key" fit and it's not necessary for a mosaic piece. =
 Once
you have the main image cut out, I have found that it's alot easier to =
get a
nice looking gap if you take a piece of contact paper and cut it to the =
hex of
the pattern adn lay it sticky side up on top of the pattern and lay out =
your
pieces face up on top of the sticky contact.  The contact paper will keep=
 all
of your pieces in place as you work.  If the contact paper is sliding aro=
und
too much, tape the corners to keep it on you pattern.  Once I'm done with=
 the
flowers and stuff, I cut the background.  I have found that some of the =
pieces
in the Tiffany Garden book are very difficult to cut unless you ahve a =
bandsaw
and therefore I tell my students to cut it as close as possible and then =
to cut
the background piece to fit, or if the piece is very tiny, and there are =
some
that are very tiny, I suggest eliminating that piece.  Omitting a few sma=
ll
pieces doesn't change the look of the stone at all.  Also, I don't like =
to
grind my pieces unless it's somthing like the ribbon which I want very =
smoothe.
Not grinding serves two purposes, it keeps the edges a bit rough adn the =
cement
then has more area to grip the glass and hold it in place, and it makes =
the
process alot faster, decreasing the amount of time that you spend running=
 back
adn forth between the grinder and your piece.  If you're concerned about =
how it
will look, don't be.  The cement will cover it up and once you seal the =
stones
any edges that you may think are sharp will be glazed over and dulled. =
 When
all of the pieces are cut and  placed where you want them, then cut anoth=
er
piece of contact paper and place it over the top of the glass, smoothe =
it out
and turn the "sandwich" of contact paper and glass and contact paper over=
 adn
take off the contact from the back of the glass.  If you want to cut a =
bunch of
stones in the winter andd then pour them in the summer, then leave the =
two
pieces of contact paper on the glass and that will keep all of you pieces=
 in
place untill your ready to pour the cement.  Keep in mind that as they =
sit the
contact will get a bit tacky and when you take the backing off the glass =
it
make take a bit of care.  Ok...put the glass into the form, you should =
be
looking at the back of the glass.  I use "Ready-Mix" or "Quik-Crete" bran=
ds of
GRAVEL mix.  The book uses a top mix, which is an all sand cement mix, =
but it
isn't the strongest stuff.  The Gravel mix contains the gravel which is =
what
gives the cement more strength, thus eliminating the need for chicken wir=
e
reinforcement in the stone.  I usually mix up the cement and place a few =
cups
onto the glass and rub the cement down into the cracks with my hands.  =
This
forces the smaller, sandy pieces of the mix onto the top surface of your =
stone
and gives a better finish.  When I think that it's ready I pour the rest =
of the
cement into the back, completely filling the form.  I have found that the=
 most
important part of making the stones is getting the cement mixed up proper=
ly.  I
mix that is too wet will cause the lime and jipsum particals to rise to =
the
back of the stone as the water evaporates and those particles are what =
keep it
all "glued" together.  I usually mix up some of the cement and water and =
when I
think that it's the consitancy that I need I make a well, like in baking,=
 in
the center if the cement and let it stand a minute or two.  If water pudd=
les in
that well at all then the mix is too wet and you need to add more dry cem=
ent.
When the stones have set for a couple of days, turn them out (I have hear=
d that
an ironing board works good for this because you can get to the edges und=
er the
form and not crush your knuckles into the table top.)  Take the contact =
paper
off the glass and clean up the glass with a damp sponge.  Sometimes you =
might
have to use an X-acto knife to get the tough spots.  I then let the stone=
 sit
for about 3 weeks to make sure that it has cured and then I seal them wit=
h a
deck and cement sealer...I like Thompson's.  When you seal the stone do =
the
front, sides and then part of the back...leave an area about 5-6 inches =
across,
unsealed so that if moisture does get into the stone, or is still in the =
stone

it has an escape area.

Ok...I know that this was a bit winded but I thought that you might like =
to
know a few of the things that I do.  If anyone has any questions please =
let me
know... or if you have any suggestions that I could pass on to my student=
s, I
would like to know.
Lisa R.

----

  I did my first stone last night and I'm not sure if I
did it correctly.   I followed all the instructions in the book, however =
the
book states, "one stepping stone requires approx 30 oz of topping and 50 =
oz
of pre-mix concrete."  I assumed this was 30 oz dry, so that is what I
measured.  The topping was fine and I completed that step, however, furth=
er
along the instructions read, "mix the remainder of the topping with 50 =
oz of
concrete and water to dry consistency (you should be able to form a ball
with it)".  I did as instructed, but I didn't have nearly enough to fill =
the
mold and ended up mixing about 3 times that amount.  The instructions
indicate that the mold should be filled to the top, but if you follow the
mixing directions, there is not enough.  Should the mixture be thinner, =
say
like cream?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Kim W.

----

I make the patio stones too and I have found that it's easier to not use =
the
topping mix on the stones.  I use Redi Mix or Quick Crete brand gravel =
mix
instead.  The mix is a bit rougher but there are a couple advantages to =
it.
First, the gravel mix eliminates the need to reinforce the stone because =
the
gravel is what gives the cement strength and the size of stone that you =
will
work with won't be so large to warrent the chicken wire reinforcement. =
 Second,
when you pour the cement, you won't have to have two steps to the process=
, it
makes it go a bit smoother.  Plus if you mix up a batch large enough for =
one
stone then the mix for the stone will be consistant throughout the stone.

As far as how much for a stone... I use 80# bags and can do 3 of the hex =
stones
from that.  When you mix the cement it shouldn't be wet or form puddles =
upon

standing.  If that happens the face of the stone will get crumbly and the=
 glass
will stick out the edges eventually.  This is because when the water evap=
orates
it pulls up the water from the bottom of the form with it.  When the ceme=
nt mix
is too wet the water moves up to the surface too fast and the capillary =
action
in the cement pulls up the lime and gypsum, which are what keep the cemen=
t
together and solid.  I like to make a well in the cement mix before I put=
 it in
the form and if any water forms in that well then I know that the mix is =
too
wet.
Lisa R.

----

From: rneaves@ix.netcom.com (Roger Neaves )
Subject: Re: Stepping Stones
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:52:08 -0800

With all this discussion about stepping stones, has anyone seen the 
video by Vicki Payne about this subject?  Her method is to use a 
preformed stone and glueing all the glass to it.  Then she used grout 
(?) around the glass pieces, let it cure and voila!  I saw this on the =

local PBS channel but I think this has been around for a while.  I 
didn't get a chance to tape this episode.  

I would be interested in any comments if someone has tried this method.
Janet Neaves

----

To Janet Neaves:  Re Vicki Payne Stepping Stone Method.

Hi Janet:  I have not tried the stones themselves.  I have, however, cove=
red
some terra cotta pots with this method, which I used as containers for
Christmas baskets.  I used GE Silicone glue and regular tile grout with =
sand
mix and then a grout sealer.  So far so good (I kept 2 which I use in my
bathrooms for soaps, etc.).  I'm thinking of trying a stone this spring, =
so I
too would be interested if anyone has tried them and used them in the gar=
den.
Laura Bettingen, Carson City, NV

----

They'll be fine if you treat them right.  
ALL concrete will eventually disintegrate if left in contact with wet soi=
l. I
learned this with my concrete ducks.  What you need to do, is sprinkle =
some
gravel or sand on top of the earth, then place the stepping stones on top=
 of
them.  
Sealing them is a good idea, too.  Barbara

----

someone asked for improvements phone # to get catalog with stone forms-
800-642-2112
Judy in Northern MA
glaslady@tiac.net 

----

Our instructor recommended using Quikrete brand cement.  She said using =
the
blend that included gravel is stronger than the sand version, and the usi=
ng
the gravel version eliminated the need for any chicken wire support.

----

>> Could anyone tell me if there is something to add to concrete to 
>change 
>> the color, I would like to try to make some stepping stones, also 
>what 
>> kind of cement would you use, I have tried to find the answers in 
>the 
>> archives but can't, hope someone can help, Thanks Donna.hr
>> ----

Assuming you are making stepping stones from scratch;
Thickness, minimum 1.5 - 2 inches.
1 part ordinary Portland cement
3 parts washed sharp sand.
Colours: Mortar colouring pigments, available at any good Builders' 
Merchant ( remember colours go paler when dry. Also not to use more 
pigment powder than cement, or mix will become brittle when dry. You 
should also be able to obtain WHITE coloured cement - rather than the 
ordinary grey coloured).
If you suffer from frost in winter, also suggest you add a 
water-proofing agent. 
minimum of water, just enough so that the mix doesn't fall apart when 
you squeeze it into a hard ball.
Compact the mix very hard into your mould & allow to set and dry.
Hopefully, you will now have your coloured stepping stones.
Good luck!
Elisabeth & Toby

----

Building supply companies (Home Depot, Builders Square, local lumber 
yards) all carry brands like Quikcrete.  Use their sand (topping mix) 
as a mortar and regular quikcrete  for the remainder of the body 
reinforced with a hardware wire.  Be sure to mix relatively dry as 
others have stated.  Colorants are available at these same locations. 
 Portland Cement and white silica sand is best for a real white color.

----

From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
Subject: Re: stepping stones
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 22:44:09 EDT

     I've been working on some stepping stones this summer, and after
a few practice runs, I'm really happy with the results I'm getting now. =

I've made some using a layer of mortar and then quickrete, and I've made
some just using the quickrete.  I've done some with just a design in the
middle and the rest exposed concrete or mortar.  The mortar is suppose =
to
sit for 24 hours before removing from the mold, but I've found that when
I remove it, it's still soft enough that I can gently rub out any bubbles
or imperfections with my fingers.  I've also done this with the
quickrete, but removed those stones from the molds after just a few
hours.  (I've been using a 10 1/2" bucket for a mold.)  

     What probably made the biggest difference was learning how to tap
the molds after pouring the cement.  If you don't tap there will be air
bubbles.  At first I was tapping too hard so that cement would seep under
the glass and I'd really have to scrape it off the glass once removed. =

Those didn't look as good.  I found out that by tapping more gently, the
glass doesn't get buried, and the stones come out nice and smooth.  Also
you may need a little more water in your cement.  I found that if there
wasn't enough, sometimes the edges didn't fill well, and would crumble
off when dry.  I plan on sealing the stones made with mortar, but have
been told that I don't need to seal the quickrete because it's more like
an acryllic base.

     I hope this helps.  Just experiment a few times, and you'll
probably start getting some good results.  Good Luck.
Jerri

----

>Does anyone make the mosaic stepping stones as in Tiffany Gardens?  What=
, if
>anything, so you put on them to preserve them-i. e. make them more weath=
er
>resistant? 

We use Thompson's Waterseal, doesn't change any colors, repels water just
fine.  Be sure to dig a hole about 8-10 inches deep where you want to put
the stone, then fill it with medium size gravel and put your stone on top=

From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 10:26:26 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm
From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archeive Notes on Stepping Stones & Mosiacs
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 12:20:23 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.192023.0>
References: <<1997Apr2.7218.0>>
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--860441347=_Mail_2_=1258487849
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The file I'm attaching is just my own compilation of the exchanges that =
took place regarding stepping stones and mosaics.  It covers all the arch=
ives, from the inception of Bungi through the last archives posted (March=
, 1997).  It's in ASCII format and I just saved it and pulled it into my =
wordprocessing program when I tested it out, and that seemed to work fine=
.  I hope some of the information in the posts are helpful to you.

Dawn

--860441347=_Mail_2_=1258487849
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

                   STEPPING STONES AND MOSAICS

Hi Kathy,
I have several questions about these stones, not the least of which is =
why
the forms cost so much money!!! As I understand it they have to cure for =
at
least three days before they can be taken out of the form. At this rate =
it
will either cost $$$$$$$$ to be able to make them or I  can settle to mak=
e
three of four using just one form. However, I'm curious about how well =
the
wood forms hold up. Do the sides have to slope at an angle or can they =
be
straight up & down? It seems that if I would want to color the concrete =
mix
I would need to be able to do a large number at a time so that I would =
get
all the same color.  

Also, do you have to grind down the edges of the glass so the edges are =
not
flat?

And, what kind of glass would do best in these stones? It seems as though
the opaque would probably be best, maybe?

I make wedding cakes as a hobby and I have a whole closet of wilton bakin=
g
pans in all different shapes and sizes, mostly about 2" deep, that are =
no
longer usable to bake in. I would like to know if it would be possible =
to
make the stones in these. I want to continue to support our local glass =
shop
but the owner is adamant that they can't be make in anything but the
commercial form. Kathy, I'd love to hear what you think of the stepping
stones after you take that class.  Thanks

----

From: glaslady@tiac.net (glaslady)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re:stepping stones
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 18:50:27 GMT

I've got all 3 plastic forms and use them frequently - I make stones as
house gifts when I go to visit gardening friends.

opalescent glass works best and I've found that if I grond the edges
slightly, I like the finish better.

the plastic forms make for easy removal - and work better than the wooden
forms I'd tried earlier

I'm now working on a benchdesign for my own garden, which will complement
the 12 stones I've made  for myself if flower patterns of plants I have =
in
my garden.

----

I'd originally thought of selling the stones, but see no way to recoup =
the
time and materials unless selling direct. probably the offshore market =
will
latch onto this as they have lamps, and make it harder of us to compete.I=
'm
really tired of explaining to potential customers at shows why I can't
compete price wise with 'those tiffany lamps ' made by dale tiffany - of
course, I don't have assembly line factories in taiwan & korea - and when
you  look at my lamps, they look as polished on the inside as they do on =
the
outside, which most of the offshore models don't....but it's like explain=
ing
to someone who stopped by my stand at a show in Maine and commented that =
he
really liked the beercan airplanes better than my stained glass kaleidesc=
ope
ones and that I'd sell alot more if I made them in beer cans - just look =
at
the business the guy with the beer cans was doing (he was right - the man
clean up....but I don't want to make stuff out of beer cans.....)

----

    The stones that were on display at my supplier's were done in 
opalescent glass(an irridesent red was stunning) and the colors were 
so bright and vibrant.

----

From: BLFstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: stepping stones
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 03:51:03 -0500

I, too, have all three molds - two of each.  They really are great and =
will
last pratically forever.  I only leave mine in the molds for 36 - 48 hour=
s.
 The book suggests 3 to 5 days, but there seems to be no need if you want=
 to
keep churning them out.  I pour three at a time, so I don't have to mix =
up
the cement so often.  

If you make your own molds, just be sure to coat them with petroleum jell=
y to
ensure you can get them out.  (Another reason for not waiting too long =
to
remove them from the mold).  

Use opalescent or irridized glass.  Cathedral glass would allow the concr=
ete
to show through and add a grey cast to your glass.  The colors are really
quite vibrant and quite attractive.  Don't hesitate to use art glass, as =
the
cheaper glass will probably not please you.  

The book and addtional patterns are all quite good and easy to follow. =
 But
don't hesitate to use other patterns you think would be nice.  I've used =
a
butterfly and a cat pattern - had to be enlarged and a border added, but =
that
was easy.  Lots of possibilities to customize to your liking.  They're =
lots
of fun  -  and no lead or solder!  Have fun.  Barbara

----

From: "Lisa Anne Rosochacki" <rosochac@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: stepping stones
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 11:02:34 -0500 (EST)

Hi
There has been some talk about the stepping stones... I thought that I =
could
add my 2 cents... I teach all of the stepping stone classes at the store =
that I
work at so i have had some experience with them.

I too am not totally sold on the forms... I think that they are a bit pri=
cy for
what you get.  About two weeks ago I was experimenting with a new for tha=
t is
also plastic but not quite as stiff as the Tiffany Garden one, this new =
one is
also a hexagon, but it costs about half the price of the other one and =
in my
oppinion it works better.... the stones come out alot easier.  You don't =
need
to use petrolium jelly on it (not that I did) to take out the stones you =
just
give it a twist and they pop right out.  Also the corners are a bit sharp=
er and
they yeild a cleaner edge.  I have also used pans...like old cake pans...=
those
you need to make sure that you "grease" real well.

As far as glass.... I like the opals best... I have found that the Bullse=
ye,
Oceana, Uroboros and Youghiogheny glass make the best stones...the glass =
has a
neat luster in and of itself.  In fact some of the glass looks better in =
stones
than it does in a window.  I have had students that wanted to use cathedr=
als
glass and have been sorry that they didn't spend the money on an opal... =
also I
have seen the iridescent glass used, and that looks neat too...one studen=
t used
an Armstrong wispy amber and white iridescent and put the irisdescent inw=
ard
against the cement but the glass was just light enough that you could see=
 a
hint of the iridescent through the glass and it gave the glass depth adn =
looked
really neat when it was done.

Patterns:  I have been making some of my own and I have used stained glas=
s
patterns as well... I recently made the Moonrose fairie from the Fairie =
Lights
book...that one turned out ever cool.  A guy that I work with used anothe=
r
stained glass pattern and made a table top for and antique table, and tha=
t
turned out very cool as well.  I try to tell my students that they need =
to
explore other patterns than what are in the book because otherwise they =
will
get board doing the same ones over and over, and unfortunately I think =
that
there is the misconception that the only patterns that can be done are =
those
that say taht they are for mosaic patio stones.

Also, something else that I do that isn't in the book... I use gravel mix
cement and omit the chicken wire... the gravel in the cement provides the
strength adn I then don't have to have a roll of chicken wire around.  =
I
haven't had a problem, and the ones that I made last spring are surviving=
 our
winter here in Michigan.

Well that is my 2 cents...
If anyone has any suggestions or questions please let me know... I'm allw=
ays
looking for more info to pass on to students.
Lisa R.

----

I thought that the price on these new forms was half the price of the oth=
er
ones but they are only about 10.oo cheaper, still it's cheaper and I thin=
k that
they are easier to use.  Oh and to clearify, these forms are the hexagon
ones....I don't know if they have them in the 8x8 or the 4x8, although =
those
forms are very easy to use as it is and they range from 15.95 to 19.95 =
I
believe, at least at our store.

As far as size of the piece of glass to use for the stones...I have never=
 had a
problem with the size...the cement totally supports the glass from the =
back so
it isn't too likely that you would have an area that wasn't supported eno=
ugh to
step on.  In the store we thought that that might be a problem so we set =
our
some square foot pieces of glass and walked on them and they were support=
ed by
the cement floor and they didn't break, and I think that everyone in the =
store
took a shot at walking on them. But then again i don't think that the ide=
a is
to use really large pieces in your design, mosaics inherently use small =
pieces.
TTYL
 Lisa R.

----

Hi Andrea and Gary(and anyone else who hasn't tried stepping stones))
    Yes I can outline the steps (not very briefly) but I will try.Any 
step I accidently leave out ,I hope someone on the list will help me 
out.OK! Here goes!
1.Take your pattern(any pattern is acceptable)and cut out the pieces 
inside the lines.Lead pattern scissors were  mentioned.A space 
of1/8"between pattern pieces is good to allow concrete to flow 
between .Plan to leave a1/4"space around the outside of your pattern 
and the form.
2. Use opaque glass with good surface color as no light will filter 
thru the concrete.Cut as usual but again cut on the inside of your 
line to allow space for concrete.The teachers disagreed on the need 
to grind.One said no but one thought if the glass did not lay flat 
for some reason it could cut someone who dared to walk on it.
3.A form is needed. There are plastic forms on the market or you can 
make wooden ones.Remember to cut  walls with a 71/2 degree 
angle.Coat the area where the bottom and the sides of the mold meet 
with petroleum jelly.This will help release the stone from the mold 
later on.
4.When you have cut and laid out your glass on your pattern,cover the 
glass carefully with a clear sheet of adhesive-backed vinyl to keep 
the glass from moving in the form.Pick up the glass(which is all 
stuck to the vinyl) and place it in the form ,clear vinyl side 
down.If you need to adjust any glass ,now is your last chance..
5.Mix" topping mix"to a creamy thickness and cover  glass with 1/4" 
of mixture.Allow the cement to move between the glass.Remember to 
gently tap the bottom and sides to release air bubbles..
6.Add more topping mix to half fill the form.
7. Use reinforcing wire such as chicken wire or someone suggested old 
wire hangers and lay it on the topping mix careful not to come too 
close to the edges.
8. mix up concrete mix and fill the mold to about 1/2" from the 
top.Again tap sides and bottom for about 5mins to help get rid of 
most of the trapped air.
9. Smooth out the bottom and sop up any extra water that maybe laying 
on the concrete.
10.I read somewhere (perhaps  in theTiffany Garden book) that you 
should leave the stone to harden for approx 3 days.Our instructor 
thought only about 36 hours in the form and 3-5 days out .30 days to 
cure before putting outdoors.
11. Gently turn over the form and gently bang it on the table and if 
all is well, it should pop out.Clean the glass and fill in any little 
spots with a little concrete mixed up to fill air bubbles or 
inperfections.Someone in the seminar suggested coloring the concrete 
with plaster of paris(to give it an off white color) or if doing 
several colored concrete stones be very precise with your 
measurements of concrete and color.
 I hope that answers your questions.Meatloaf pans,muffin pans,round 
cake pans,etc were all suggested forms but Carole,no one was willing 
to comment on the Wilton cake forms."Too risky" was 
the consensus. Too difficult was also mentioned!
    I am not a typist so I will close now so I can still use my fingers =

for the important things in life...like foiling.Jump in everyone to 
fill in any steps I missed!.
 

    In step 11(I think!) I forgot to mention when you pop out the 
stone peel off the vinyl.
    As for topping mix,good question!I am not a masonary engineer by 
trade, so I took my husband with me to the seminar.Topping premix is 
actually a finer mix than concrete(perhaps cement?)Both the cement 
and concrete that was used was a  premixed that was mixed with water.
Maybe someone out there can explain it better.Both bags of powder 
were labelled as premixed concrete and topping mix.(2 different bags)
 Andrea, as for the Wilton cake tins,they are a cake decorators form 
that comes in many different shapes with indentations of different 
pics and characters.Many children's bithday cakes are made this 
way. I think they are aluminum.Perhaps Carole can elaborate on this bette=
r than me.
    Bye for now!
    Kathy

----

From: "Lisa Anne Rosochacki" <rosochac@pilot.msu.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: stepping stones
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:47:12 -0500 (EST)

Hello All,
I thought that I would share my two cents worth on Patio Stones...
I teach the Patio Stones classes at the store that I work at and i have =
a few
pointers that I think you might find helpful.

To begin make sure that you have a copy of your pattern available, not =
just the
original.  Alot of times it's easier to cut and trace than to try to use =
a
light box.  I assume that you all would think of it but I thought that =
I would
still remind you.  I tell my students to start cutting their main image
pieces...say the flower and the foliage and the ribbon (I'm going by the
patterns in the Tiffany Garden book.).  Leave the backgound pieces til =
last
because you can cut those to fit in around any pieces that might not be =
exactly
to the pattern.  Keep in mind that mosaics are not like stained glass in =
that
all the pieces need to fit exactly, alot of people that do stained glass =
try to
cut it all "lock and key" fit and it's not necessary for a mosaic piece. =
 Once
you have the main image cut out, I have found that it's alot easier to =
get a
nice looking gap if you take a piece of contact paper and cut it to the =
hex of
the pattern adn lay it sticky side up on top of the pattern and lay out =
your
pieces face up on top of the sticky contact.  The contact paper will keep=
 all
of your pieces in place as you work.  If the contact paper is sliding aro=
und
too much, tape the corners to keep it on you pattern.  Once I'm done with=
 the
flowers and stuff, I cut the background.  I have found that some of the =
pieces
in the Tiffany Garden book are very difficult to cut unless you ahve a =
bandsaw
and therefore I tell my students to cut it as close as possible and then =
to cut
the background piece to fit, or if the piece is very tiny, and there are =
some
that are very tiny, I suggest eliminating that piece.  Omitting a few sma=
ll
pieces doesn't change the look of the stone at all.  Also, I don't like =
to
grind my pieces unless it's somthing like the ribbon which I want very =
smoothe.
Not grinding serves two purposes, it keeps the edges a bit rough adn the =
cement
then has more area to grip the glass and hold it in place, and it makes =
the
process alot faster, decreasing the amount of time that you spend running=
 back
adn forth between the grinder and your piece.  If you're concerned about =
how it
will look, don't be.  The cement will cover it up and once you seal the =
stones
any edges that you may think are sharp will be glazed over and dulled. =
 When
all of the pieces are cut and  placed where you want them, then cut anoth=
er
piece of contact paper and place it over the top of the glass, smoothe =
it out
and turn the "sandwich" of contact paper and glass and contact paper over=
 adn
take off the contact from the back of the glass.  If you want to cut a =
bunch of
stones in the winter andd then pour them in the summer, then leave the =
two
pieces of contact paper on the glass and that will keep all of you pieces=
 in
place untill your ready to pour the cement.  Keep in mind that as they =
sit the
contact will get a bit tacky and when you take the backing off the glass =
it
make take a bit of care.  Ok...put the glass into the form, you should =
be
looking at the back of the glass.  I use "Ready-Mix" or "Quik-Crete" bran=
ds of
GRAVEL mix.  The book uses a top mix, which is an all sand cement mix, =
but it
isn't the strongest stuff.  The Gravel mix contains the gravel which is =
what
gives the cement more strength, thus eliminating the need for chicken wir=
e
reinforcement in the stone.  I usually mix up the cement and place a few =
cups
onto the glass and rub the cement down into the cracks with my hands.  =
This
forces the smaller, sandy pieces of the mix onto the top surface of your =
stone
and gives a better finish.  When I think that it's ready I pour the rest =
of the
cement into the back, completely filling the form.  I have found that the=
 most
important part of making the stones is getting the cement mixed up proper=
ly.  I
mix that is too wet will cause the lime and jipsum particals to rise to =
the
back of the stone as the water evaporates and those particles are what =
keep it
all "glued" together.  I usually mix up some of the cement and water and =
when I
think that it's the consitancy that I need I make a well, like in baking,=
 in
the center if the cement and let it stand a minute or two.  If water pudd=
les in
that well at all then the mix is too wet and you need to add more dry cem=
ent.
When the stones have set for a couple of days, turn them out (I have hear=
d that
an ironing board works good for this because you can get to the edges und=
er the
form and not crush your knuckles into the table top.)  Take the contact =
paper
off the glass and clean up the glass with a damp sponge.  Sometimes you =
might
have to use an X-acto knife to get the tough spots.  I then let the stone=
 sit
for about 3 weeks to make sure that it has cured and then I seal them wit=
h a
deck and cement sealer...I like Thompson's.  When you seal the stone do =
the
front, sides and then part of the back...leave an area about 5-6 inches =
across,
unsealed so that if moisture does get into the stone, or is still in the =
stone

it has an escape area.

Ok...I know that this was a bit winded but I thought that you might like =
to
know a few of the things that I do.  If anyone has any questions please =
let me
know... or if you have any suggestions that I could pass on to my student=
s, I
would like to know.
Lisa R.

----

  I did my first stone last night and I'm not sure if I
did it correctly.   I followed all the instructions in the book, however =
the
book states, "one stepping stone requires approx 30 oz of topping and 50 =
oz
of pre-mix concrete."  I assumed this was 30 oz dry, so that is what I
measured.  The topping was fine and I completed that step, however, furth=
er
along the instructions read, "mix the remainder of the topping with 50 =
oz of
concrete and water to dry consistency (you should be able to form a ball
with it)".  I did as instructed, but I didn't have nearly enough to fill =
the
mold and ended up mixing about 3 times that amount.  The instructions
indicate that the mold should be filled to the top, but if you follow the
mixing directions, there is not enough.  Should the mixture be thinner, =
say
like cream?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Kim W.

----

I make the patio stones too and I have found that it's easier to not use =
the
topping mix on the stones.  I use Redi Mix or Quick Crete brand gravel =
mix
instead.  The mix is a bit rougher but there are a couple advantages to =
it.
First, the gravel mix eliminates the need to reinforce the stone because =
the
gravel is what gives the cement strength and the size of stone that you =
will
work with won't be so large to warrent the chicken wire reinforcement. =
 Second,
when you pour the cement, you won't have to have two steps to the process=
, it
makes it go a bit smoother.  Plus if you mix up a batch large enough for =
one
stone then the mix for the stone will be consistant throughout the stone.

As far as how much for a stone... I use 80# bags and can do 3 of the hex =
stones
from that.  When you mix the cement it shouldn't be wet or form puddles =
upon

standing.  If that happens the face of the stone will get crumbly and the=
 glass
will stick out the edges eventually.  This is because when the water evap=
orates
it pulls up the water from the bottom of the form with it.  When the ceme=
nt mix
is too wet the water moves up to the surface too fast and the capillary =
action
in the cement pulls up the lime and gypsum, which are what keep the cemen=
t
together and solid.  I like to make a well in the cement mix before I put=
 it in
the form and if any water forms in that well then I know that the mix is =
too
wet.
Lisa R.

----

From: rneaves@ix.netcom.com (Roger Neaves )
Subject: Re: Stepping Stones
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:52:08 -0800

With all this discussion about stepping stones, has anyone seen the 
video by Vicki Payne about this subject?  Her method is to use a 
preformed stone and glueing all the glass to it.  Then she used grout 
(?) around the glass pieces, let it cure and voila!  I saw this on the =

local PBS channel but I think this has been around for a while.  I 
didn't get a chance to tape this episode.  

I would be interested in any comments if someone has tried this method.
Janet Neaves

----

To Janet Neaves:  Re Vicki Payne Stepping Stone Method.

Hi Janet:  I have not tried the stones themselves.  I have, however, cove=
red
some terra cotta pots with this method, which I used as containers for
Christmas baskets.  I used GE Silicone glue and regular tile grout with =
sand
mix and then a grout sealer.  So far so good (I kept 2 which I use in my
bathrooms for soaps, etc.).  I'm thinking of trying a stone this spring, =
so I
too would be interested if anyone has tried them and used them in the gar=
den.
Laura Bettingen, Carson City, NV

----

They'll be fine if you treat them right.  
ALL concrete will eventually disintegrate if left in contact with wet soi=
l. I
learned this with my concrete ducks.  What you need to do, is sprinkle =
some
gravel or sand on top of the earth, then place the stepping stones on top=
 of
them.  
Sealing them is a good idea, too.  Barbara

----

someone asked for improvements phone # to get catalog with stone forms-
800-642-2112
Judy in Northern MA
glaslady@tiac.net 

----

Our instructor recommended using Quikrete brand cement.  She said using =
the
blend that included gravel is stronger than the sand version, and the usi=
ng
the gravel version eliminated the need for any chicken wire support.

----

>> Could anyone tell me if there is something to add to concrete to 
>change 
>> the color, I would like to try to make some stepping stones, also 
>what 
>> kind of cement would you use, I have tried to find the answers in 
>the 
>> archives but can't, hope someone can help, Thanks Donna.hr
>> ----

Assuming you are making stepping stones from scratch;
Thickness, minimum 1.5 - 2 inches.
1 part ordinary Portland cement
3 parts washed sharp sand.
Colours: Mortar colouring pigments, available at any good Builders' 
Merchant ( remember colours go paler when dry. Also not to use more 
pigment powder than cement, or mix will become brittle when dry. You 
should also be able to obtain WHITE coloured cement - rather than the 
ordinary grey coloured).
If you suffer from frost in winter, also suggest you add a 
water-proofing agent. 
minimum of water, just enough so that the mix doesn't fall apart when 
you squeeze it into a hard ball.
Compact the mix very hard into your mould & allow to set and dry.
Hopefully, you will now have your coloured stepping stones.
Good luck!
Elisabeth & Toby

----

Building supply companies (Home Depot, Builders Square, local lumber 
yards) all carry brands like Quikcrete.  Use their sand (topping mix) 
as a mortar and regular quikcrete  for the remainder of the body 
reinforced with a hardware wire.  Be sure to mix relatively dry as 
others have stated.  Colorants are available at these same locations. 
 Portland Cement and white silica sand is best for a real white color.

----

From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
Subject: Re: stepping stones
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 22:44:09 EDT

     I've been working on some stepping stones this summer, and after
a few practice runs, I'm really happy with the results I'm getting now. =

I've made some using a layer of mortar and then quickrete, and I've made
some just using the quickrete.  I've done some with just a design in the
middle and the rest exposed concrete or mortar.  The mortar is suppose =
to
sit for 24 hours before removing from the mold, but I've found that when
I remove it, it's still soft enough that I can gently rub out any bubbles
or imperfections with my fingers.  I've also done this with the
quickrete, but removed those stones from the molds after just a few
hours.  (I've been using a 10 1/2" bucket for a mold.)  

     What probably made the biggest difference was learning how to tap
the molds after pouring the cement.  If you don't tap there will be air
bubbles.  At first I was tapping too hard so that cement would seep under
the glass and I'd really have to scrape it off the glass once removed. =

Those didn't look as good.  I found out that by tapping more gently, the
glass doesn't get buried, and the stones come out nice and smooth.  Also
you may need a little more water in your cement.  I found that if there
wasn't enough, sometimes the edges didn't fill well, and would crumble
off when dry.  I plan on sealing the stones made with mortar, but have
been told that I don't need to seal the quickrete because it's more like
an acryllic base.

     I hope this helps.  Just experiment a few times, and you'll
probably start getting some good results.  Good Luck.
Jerri

----

>Does anyone make the mosaic stepping stones as in Tiffany Gardens?  What=
, if
>anything, so you put on them to preserve them-i. e. make them more weath=
er
>resistant? 

We use Thompson's Waterseal, doesn't change any colors, repels water just
fine.  Be sure to dig a hole about 8-10 inches deep where you want to put
the stone, then fill it with medium size gravel and put your stone on top=

From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 10:29:02 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
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	id m0wEIDd-0000pka; Mon, 7 Apr 97 10:28 PDT
X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Mon,  7 Apr 97 10:28:20 -0700
Message-ID: <m0wEIDP-000LiCC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1997Apr6.15040.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
> Also, the product instructions that came with my new Toyo say to use
> Kerosene and to fill never more than half full. It says a thicker fluid is
> likely to cause clogging. Anyone use kerosene???    Kris

i use kerosene in 2 toyo pistol grip cutters. one still leaks, the other  
doesn't let any oil through at all. when i asked about this to the  
manufacturer, they said that the material (felt?) that feeds oil to the head  
is clogged and can't be fixed or replaced. i roll it across an oil saturated  
paper towel before each cut.

---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 11:21:11 1997
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X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm
From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 13:24:58 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.202458.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

	
Hi everyone,

I believe I have replied now to everyone who wanted a copy of my file.

Robert Crane, Joni and Mary Ann, please send me your e-mail addresses and=
 I will send a copy to you as well.

If I accidentally skipped someone please let me know.

Dawn

----
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 11:27:28 1997
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X-Path: mail.smu.edu!gshultz
From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:26:41 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530503af6efa7282fd@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

For whatever it's worth, I have used Baby Oil in my Toyo for years and had
great luck. The fluid seems light enough to flow to the head without
clogging. And best of all, it doesn't cost much.

=Gary

>> Also, the product instructions that came with my new Toyo say to use
>> Kerosene and to fill never more than half full. It says a thicker fluid is
>> likely to cause clogging. Anyone use kerosene???    Kris
>
>i use kerosene in 2 toyo pistol grip cutters. one still leaks, the other
>doesn't let any oil through at all. when i asked about this to the
>manufacturer, they said that the material (felt?) that feeds oil to the head
>is clogged and can't be fixed or replaced. i roll it across an oil saturated
>paper towel before each cut.
>
>---
>Charles Spitzer
>charlie@az.stratus.com
>Customer Assistance Center
>Stratus Computer, Inc.
>Phoenix, AZ
>----


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 11:32:29 1997
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From: "Creative Input" <Creinput@mcw.on.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Unsubscribe
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 14:31:14 -0400
Message-ID: <m0wEJCq-0000l4C@daver.bungi.com>
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Precedence: bulk

Please take me OFF your mailing list.

Blake Dawbon
Creinput@mcw.on.ca

Thank you

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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 11:56:03 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Big Mistake
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 13:36:35 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.203635.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Oh no,  I realized I accidentally sent Bonnie's message to the group
instead of to her privately.  I apologize and hope the attachment did 
not create any problems for anyone on the group.

Dawn
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 12:03:14 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Archive files
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 13:58:00 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.20580.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi everone,

I noticed quite a few of you indicated that you had problems retrieving
things from the archives.  I have been familiarizing myself with a new
software program, and thought I would practice on something that 
would do some good, the archive of the notes from March, 1997.

I removed all of the header junk from each message, with the exception 
of the From:, Date: and Subject fields.  I also deleted all the scrambled
junk that occasionally gets included that goes on for pages and pages,
such as the attachments that don't come through correctly.  If certain 
people always signed their messages with lengthy tag lines, I also 
deleted that and just left the name.  But, I did not edit the message 
contents, such as the repeats of the repeats of the repeats.

The result is I have parred down the 891K file to 407K, which is less 
than half the original size!  (I'm sure the size would be considerably
 smaller if I were to take the time to go through message by message 
and delete all the messages repeated in entirety.)

If you are listening Glenna, I would be glad to send you and Dave the 
file.  If you want, you could post it to the archive.  My thinking is that
perhaps more people would access the archives if the files were of a
manageable size for them to pull off.  The smaller size might help many
who want to download the archive file and do keyword searches.
Would you be interested in using the file?

Also, to everyone, please do not take this as a criticism to anyone or
assume that I am trying to tell anyone how to respond to messages.  
I know that argument has gone on long enough and I have no desire
to open that subject up again.  I am only going to make a point that
many of you may have not considered.  When a message is replied
to and the *entire* contents of the message is repeated, it adds a 
tremendous bulk to the size of the archive file.  Therefore, making it
impossible for many people to access and download.   If only pertinent
portions were copied, then it might help many of our fellow Bunginians
retrieve the information they need.  Just a thought to consider.....

Dawn
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 12:45:00 1997
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X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm
From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Message Mistakenly Sent to Group
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 14:48:21 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.214821.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

	
Once again, I want to apologize for my messages that went out to
the group instead of the individuals.  One just came through here 
and it evidently tagged on the attachment to the message.  Please 
don't attach the copy of the message if you want to send me back
a message telling me I screwed up.  I know I screwed up and I don't 
want the huge size of the file to continually clog up everyone's mail.
*Pleaseeeeee* forgive me. 

Dawn


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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 13:39:05 1997
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X-Path: smtplink.dis.anl.gov!lernerk
From: "Ken Lerner" <lernerk@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re[2]: Cutters, round 2
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 14:09:29 CST
Message-ID: <9703078604.AA860452697@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

     Glenna wrote:


>> shyguy wrote:
>> > 
>> > I was taught to never score dry - we were given a recipe of 8 parts
>> > kerosene to 1 part light machine oil (such as 3 in 1).

> Me too...my teacher told me never to score glass without it.


My teacher told my class to NOT use oil.  He said, it doesn't help you cut, it 
just gets alot of oil all over the place.

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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 13:50:55 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 20:50:17 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.205017.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

A
>Also, the product instructions that came with my new Toyo say to use Kerosene
>and to fill never more than half full. It says a thicker fluid is likely to
>cause clogging. Anyone use kerosene???    Kris


Two comments to this one ...... first, I never use anything toxic in my
cutter, such as petroleum distillates because I have never found a way to
keep it off my hands.  I suggest always using a vegetable based oil, corn
oil, etc.  Also, a student of mine had an interesting thought one night, he
asked if the petroleum distillate lubricants could disolve out the glue that
is used in the plastic handle of the cutter.  I don't know, but kerosene is
a pretty good solvent so I suppose it could ....... 

Mike Peck

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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 14:42:01 1997
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X-Path: tchden.org!gonzales.teresa
From: "Gonzales, Diane" <gonzales.teresa@tchden.org>
To: bungi group <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Oil for Cutter
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:41:00 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.9410.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I too use a Toyo pistol grip.  This is the cutter that was recommended
by my teacher in my beginning glass class.  I was taught to not fill it
all the way, as a matter of fact not even half way.   Mine did not come
with instructions.  I think they just gave us each a "beginning kit" and
it was in there (not in a package that I can recall).

On my first night in class I purchased a bottle of cutting oil  (it was
not very expensive, and I think I've only added more oil  to my cutter
once since I've had it).  It works very well.  It leaked a little when
it was new, but my teacher told me that once the wick becomes soaked, it
would not leak as much.  I found that to be true.

I have been using mine for about 1 year.  Also, my teacher suggested
that we use the cap of a marker to put oil in and stand in one of the
corner squares of my Morton surface.  This is where my cutter sits when
not in use (inside the marker cap).   I have had no significant problems
with the cutter.

Actually,  I've never used any other kind of cutter but am very
interested in trying out others.  I know nothing about them, so I guess
I'll just go into a store and just choose one at random.



Question:  I am just curious.  What are cut bevels used for?  I am a
beginner in stained glass and have never seen a project with cut bevels
(that I know of anyway).

T. Diane Gonzales
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 14:47:56 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar
From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:47:22 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.134722.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn, may I have a copy of the file as well? Thank you very much. 
krissymar@aol.com
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 15:59:13 1997
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: paring down the posts...
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:58:42 PDT
Message-ID: <m0wENN4-0001IeC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:23:24 -0700
> Message-Id: <199704072223.PAA04482@norm.island.net>
> X-Sender: seaspray@mail.island.net
> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> To: glass@bungi.com
> From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
> Subject: paring down the postings
> 
> Dawn, I agree completely with your comments in your recent post titled
> archive files.  I've been subzcribing to this group for about a month and
> have considered unsubzcribing a couple of times...because of the repeats of
> repeats of posts, the long taglines (which can be repeated several times due
> to unedited reposting), and also the numerous messages which could be
> handled more appropriately via a private email posting only to the
> individual involved.
> 
> I also loudly echo your sentiment about not wanting to criticize or point
> fingers.  It's just that I've been noticing lately that there's a lot of
> bandwidth being taken up unnecessarily...and wondering if it's only myself
> that finds this cumbersome?  Does this group has a moderator and/or a set of
> posting guidelines to cover these kinds of things?  Being fairly new to the
> group, I wouldn't know where to look for these.  
> 
> Overall, I'm pleased with the communication and helpfulness of the
> group...it just seems to require some perseverence to get through all the
> extraneous stuff.  I try to read most of the messages since the title of the
> post doesn't always indicate the information the poster is wanting to share
> with the group and I don't want to miss anything.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Carol
> Synergy Glass & Creative
> 


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 16:38:07 1997
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From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: paring down the posts...
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 19:30:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.153023.0>
References: <<m0wENN4-0001IeC@daver.bungi.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Yes, there is a lot of space and time wasted.

Charles Warner

Glenna Rand wrote:
> >
> > Dawn, I agree completely with your comments in your recent post titled
> > archive files.  ...because of the repeats of
> > repeats of posts, the long taglines (which can be repeated several times due
> > to unedited reposting)
> >
> >...and wondering if it's only myself
> > that finds this cumbersome?  
> >
> > Carol
> > Synergy Glass & Creative
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 16:47:01 1997
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Oil for Cutter
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 19:45:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.154535.0>
References: <<1997Apr7.9410.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Gonzales, Diane wrote:
> 
> I too use a Toyo pistol grip.  This is the cutter that was recommended
> by my teacher in my beginning glass class.  I was taught to not fill it
> all the way, as a matter of fact not even half way.   Mine did not come
> with instructions.  I think they just gave us each a "beginning kit" and
> it was in there (not in a package that I can recall).
> 
> On my first night in class I purchased a bottle of cutting oil  (it was
> not very expensive, and I think I've only added more oil  to my cutter
> once since I've had it).  It works very well.  It leaked a little when
> it was new, but my teacher told me that once the wick becomes soaked, it
> would not leak as much.  I found that to be true.
> 
> I have been using mine for about 1 year.  Also, my teacher suggested
> that we use the cap of a marker to put oil in and stand in one of the
> corner squares of my Morton surface.  This is where my cutter sits when
> not in use (inside the marker cap).   I have had no significant problems
> with the cutter.
> 
> Actually,  I've never used any other kind of cutter but am very
> interested in trying out others.  I know nothing about them, so I guess
> I'll just go into a store and just choose one at random.
> 
> Question:  I am just curious.  What are cut bevels used for?  I am a
> beginner in stained glass and have never seen a project with cut bevels
> (that I know of anyway).
> 
> T. Diane Gonzales
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well, #1 i would'nt randomly buy a cutter, there are quite a few. so far
i've had very good luck with the fletcher-terry cutters. mainly the
score master 2. scoremaster 3 cracked, and they replaced the series with
the gold tip. the gold tip has a solid metal housing, or at least near
the tip for the cheaper version. i personally don't like the new
cutters, their harder to grip unto, but they do score well. just be sure
to get the head with the green ring, which is meant for general purpose
stained glass.

#2 cut bevels, it would depend on the design. sometimes you don't want a
bevel on both sides, or you want a leading beveled edge, with a color
center. kind of like a ramp (side view). or if you have a bevel border,
and want the flowers or whatever to go beyond the border. you would have
to cut the bevels, to match the curve of the flower...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 17:50:22 1997
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: using paint stripper for heating glass
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 20:46:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.164616.0>
References: <<1997Apr6.1909.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Doug Scale wrote:
> 
> Margie,
> 
> Haven't tried that particular heater but i did use a portable ceramic
> heater in my workshop to keep me warm this past winter.  When i tried to
> use it to heat glass before scoring i found it did not heat the glass
> evenly and some of my cuts went everywhere but where I wanted them. Some
> of the glass was really hot to touch but other areas could be handled.
> Think someone else also stated about the uneven heating you might get
> and thus the uneven breaking.
> 
>  Try it on some scraps before using on your working glass.  If it works
> let us know.
> 
> Doug Scale
Try this also-I have a "Flexible Arm Lamp" right over my cutting light
box for extra light-I just pull it down to 3-6 inches above the glass. 
It has a 100watt bulb.  Glass heats quite quickly-then cuts very well.
Some heat comes up thru the "Morton Surface" on the light box too.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 18:03:40 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Oil for Cutter
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 20:59:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.165923.0>
References: <<1997Apr7.9410.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

> Question:  I am just curious.  What are cut bevels used for?  I am a
> beginner in stained glass and have never seen a project with cut bevels
> (that I know of anyway).
> 
> T. Diane Gonzales

Diane-the cut or 1/2 bevels are used in a custom 3D design I made for
making free form boxes.  Some times whole 1" bevels do not conform to th
e freeform shape of the box.  Hence-using 1/2 of a 1" x 2 " bevel as
well as whole ones.  Because of the thickness and shape of a bevel, it
does not break like flat glass does, and using a Ring Saw or Band Saw
takes too long.  Complex answer for simple project.  ;)  

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 18:08:25 1997
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: elimination of repititive redundancy
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 18:06:17 -0500
Message-ID: <199704080107.SAA01130@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --


HA!!!!!about time.....be brief....no need to see see see see see see the
prior post quoted endlessy.
Enjoy.........H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 18:34:12 1997
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X-Path: connecti.com!wsexton
From: Arthur Sexton <wsexton@connecti.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Subject Standard
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 20:33:55 -0500
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970408013355.006b9114@connecti.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have been reading your mail for a while now and have learned a lot and
gotten several helpful tips which I have already put to good use.  I was
wondering though, being the computer geek/glass hobbiest that I am, if we
could make some sort of standard word, ie, bungi, to include in each mail so
that email programs could sort these to a seperate folder and elimated the
manual process....?  Just a suggestion and if is not well received then I am
not pushing it, just wanted to thorw this out and see if anyone else thought
it might be do-able.....?


Happy cutting and soldering....


    ___          __  _____              __       
   /   |  _____ / /_/ ___/ ___   _  __ / /_ ____   ____
  / /| | / ___// __/\__ \ / _ \ | |/_// __// __ \ / __ \
 / ___ |/ /   / /_ ___/ //  __/_>  < / /_ / /_/ // / / /
/_/  |_|_/    \__//____/ \___//_/|_| \__/ \____//_/ /_/
                             

Is there man with nerve enough
to think that two sexes aren't enough?

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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 18:42:04 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim
From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:40:57 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.174057.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn, you forgot me.  I am Eleanor of Eureka Glass.
E-mail me at YEGNIM@aol.com with the notes please.
Thanks!!!
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 19:15:56 1997
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X-Path: bridge.net!athena
From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Subject Standard
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 22:20:36 +0000
Message-ID: <199704080215.WAA17519@brickell.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Arthur,

I gather from the subject of your post that your email client only 
filters by subject field. What do you use?

I use Pegasus mail (freeware) and it filters mail into separate folders
on the basis of any field. I think Eudora Pro does that, too. 

M.-J.

On  7 Apr 97,  I found these words from Arthur Sexton in my mailbox:
 I was wondering though, being the computer geek/glass hobbiest
> that I am, if we could make some sort of standard word, ie, bungi,
> to include in each mail so that email programs could sort these to a
> seperate folder and elimated the manual process....?<snip>


M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails. (Unknown)

 
                                              |\                ( )
 _____________________________________________|_\_____________________
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 20:42:33 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Vafi5
From: Vafi5@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: grinder
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 23:41:53 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.194153.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

   I am quite new to stained glass and I have a lot of things that I want to
ask but my main concern now is my grinder. I did not havea grinder of my own
until now as I was using the teacher's one now I purchased one. I willonly
beusingthe grinder here in the US for another 5-6 months then I will be
taking it to Europe where the voltage is 220
so I bought a 220 grinder fit to be used in Europe.Everyone that I had talked
to had told me that I could use it here in the US with a transformer.Today I
called the company which manufactues the grinder to ask how many watts should
my transformer be only to be told that you could not use grinders with
transformers because the motor would blow up. I was shocked by this info as I
know that almost every electrical appliance can be used with a proper
transformer. My question is whether anyone knows if this info is accurate or
not.I would really appreciate if you could let me know.Thanks. VAFI5@AOL.COM
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 21:06:21 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 00:01:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.20145.0>
References: <<199704061206.IAA02474@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Albert,
Beautiful work.  Constructive comments-I love the way the first page
'fades' to red.  However I personally find the blue-grey type difficult
to read against the red.  (Type font is very readable).  The tables of
restoration work are impressive. Also would suggest making the
'clickable' links a different color type entirely.  Just my 2cents
worth.  I am very impressed overall.  That was obviously a lot of work,
putting together the whole site.  I am curious about how many hours it
takes for a site like that???  I am finishing an abstract "Study in
Blue" that I will use for a signature first picture for my studio IGGA
page,(members work).  Hope to have it and 3 others in pictures soon to
send you.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

<<Albert Lewis wrote:

> Yes, I mis-typed the URL. <sigh> Try
> 
> http://www.cummingsstudio.com
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Apr  7 22:11:29 1997
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From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 22:05:57 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr7.15557.0>
References: <<v01530503af6efa7282fd@[129.119.37.12]>>
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Gary Shultz wrote:
> 
> For whatever it's worth, I have used Baby Oil in my Toyo for years and had
> great luck. The fluid seems light enough to flow to the head without
> clogging. And best of all, it doesn't cost much.
> 
> =Gary
> 
I'll bet it smells better than Kerosene!
Just a dim thought. 
Melissa
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 03:32:09 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 06:37:37 +0000
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> called the company which manufactues the grinder to ask how many watts should
> my transformer be only to be told that you could not use grinders with
> transformers because the motor would blow up.

Could it be that they're merely trying to tell you that you do so at 
your own risk, that they won't accept any responsibility? My 
six-year-old grandson's get-in-and-drive-it-around-yourself car with 
pedals has a warning sticker that says, "Do not drive this car in 
traffic. It is not a real automobile and does not meet road safety 
regulations." As though a six-year-old were going to thing it were!

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 03:32:44 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 06:37:37 +0000
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> Beautiful work.  Constructive comments-I love the way the first page
> 'fades' to red.  However I personally find the blue-grey type difficult
> to read against the red.  (Type font is very readable).

Yes, well. The studio's "colors" are maroon and silver. White type 
would read better, but wouldn't print (white on white's a tough one) 
and the studio (naturally) wants potential clients to be able to 
print the pages out.

>  The tables of
> restoration work are impressive. Also would suggest making the
> 'clickable' links a different color type entirely.  Just my 2cents
> worth. 

I'm trying to be subtle. The type's actually a grey in that case and 
so are the links. If I could make links without underlines, I'd 
probably do it. <s>

> I am very impressed overall.  That was obviously a lot of work,
> putting together the whole site.  I am curious about how many hours it
> takes for a site like that???  

7-10 days of pretty concentrated effort, since I don't use any 
crutches ... like software designed to make the job easier. <g> I 
just write the code raw in a word processor.

>I am finishing an abstract "Study in
> Blue" that I will use for a signature first picture for my studio IGGA
> page,(members work).  Hope to have it and 3 others in pictures soon to
> send you.

I look forward to seeing them. Thanks for your comments.
 
Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 05:15:07 1997
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From: "Dee Wernette" <wernettd@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Receipt of 4/1/97 10:11AM message
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 16:40:19 CST
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Re:Re: Picture Frames

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 06:32:21 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: Joni Tornwall <glasqult@1st.net>, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: stepping stones archives
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 97 08:33:39 PDT
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> I did receive 2
>copies of what I think are the stepping stone archives anyway.  Do >they
>start out "Kathy, I have several questions regarding the stepping
>stones, not the least of which is why they cost so >much".......something
l>ike that?  Maybe you posted the archives to the whole group. 

Hi Joni,

I did accidentally post the file to the group yesterday (was trying to
hurry and get all my mail out during my lunch break and evidently
my fingers were working faster than my brain.  Ha!)

The notes from the Archive did start out with that message.  *But*, if
you are interested in receiving a copy of the archive I wouldn't 
suggest using that.  It would be better for me to send you an
attachment of the file in ASCII format.  Then you could save it
to your hard drive, pull it up in a wordprocessing program and use
it however you want.  That way, you can do keyword searchs,
format it however you want,  print out whatever sections you want,
etc.  

I'm going to go ahead and send this message to the whole group
so they know the benefits of receiving the ASCII file, as opposed
to just using what accidentally showed up yesterday.  I'll send you
another note in a minute with the file attached.

Dawn
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 07:04:10 1997
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From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:05:29 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19980408091017.2217e4a2@mailp.starnetinc.com>
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At 11:41 PM 4/7/97 -0400, you wrote:>
> I will only beusingthe grinder here in the US for another 5-6 months then
I will be
>taking it to Europe where the voltage is 220
>so I bought a 220 grinder fit to be used in Europe.Everyone that I had talked
>to had told me that I could use it here in the US with a transformer.Today I
>called the company which manufactues the grinder to ask how many watts should
>my transformer be only to be told that you could not use grinders with
>transformers because the motor would blow up. I was shocked by this info as I
>know that almost every electrical appliance can be used with a proper
>transformer. My question is whether anyone knows if this info is accurate or
>not.I would really appreciate if you could let me know.Thanks. VAFI5@AOL.COM

If that were so... everything I took over there when I was stationed in
Germany would have been destroyed <G>. It won't 'blow up' if you get the
right size transformer (ask when you get over there)... It might put
additional wear on the motor because the cycles will be off just a touch,
but I'd give it a try. I thinkthe proper term is 'burn out', not 'blow up';
the US military has been using transformers for years <S>. I suppose the
company suggested a 220v grinder? Bet the price was thru the roof... 

Paula
pjnjril@ngai.com

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 07:11:19 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Subject Standard
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:10:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr8.6101.0>
References: <<2.2.32.19970408013355.006b9114@connecti.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Arthur Sexton wrote:
> 
> I have been reading your mail for a while now and have learned a lot and
> gotten several helpful tips which I have already put to good use.  I was
> wondering though, being the computer geek/glass hobbiest that I am, if we
> could make some sort of standard word, ie, bungi, to include in each mail so
> that email programs could sort these to a seperate folder and elimated the
> manual process....?  Just a suggestion and if is not well received then I am
> not pushing it, just wanted to thorw this out and see if anyone else thought
> it might be do-able.....?
> 
> Happy cutting and soldering....
> 
>     ___          __  _____              __
>    /   |  _____ / /_/ ___/ ___   _  __ / /_ ____   ____
>   / /| | / ___// __/\__ \ / _ \ | |/_// __// __ \ / __ \
>  / ___ |/ /   / /_ ___/ //  __/_>  < / /_ / /_/ // / / /
> /_/  |_|_/    \__//____/ \___//_/|_| \__/ \____//_/ /_/
> 
> 
> Is there man with nerve enough
> to think that two sexes aren't enough?
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


there is a keyword, glass@bungi.com is in all the headers, or in the sig
line.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 07:14:47 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your comments, please
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:13:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr8.61331.0>
References: <<1997Apr7.20145.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

leestat7 wrote:
> 
> Hi Albert,
> Beautiful work.  Constructive comments-I love the way the first page
> 'fades' to red.  However I personally find the blue-grey type difficult
> to read against the red.  (Type font is very readable).  The tables of
> restoration work are impressive. Also would suggest making the
> 'clickable' links a different color type entirely.  Just my 2cents
> worth.  I am very impressed overall.  That was obviously a lot of work,
> putting together the whole site.  I am curious about how many hours it
> takes for a site like that???  I am finishing an abstract "Study in
> Blue" that I will use for a signature first picture for my studio IGGA
> page,(members work).  Hope to have it and 3 others in pictures soon to
> send you.
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> 
> <<Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > Yes, I mis-typed the URL. <sigh> Try
> >
> > http://www.cummingsstudio.com
> >
> > Sorry.
> >
> > Albert
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i'm going to add to that, though i disagree about the fade. i know when
i had a slower computer and modem 14.4 on a 386, watching a fade, was
like waiting for the school bell to reach 3:00. it just takes a real
long time. i think one fade took over a minute to do on that thing.
just  lett'n you know.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 07:57:34 1997
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From: "Robert E. Jones" <rejones@CapAccess.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Oil for Cutter
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 11:01:32 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr8.7132.0>
References: <<1997Apr7.9410.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

It seems to me that we are missing the easiest and fastest way to solve 
th problem of oil leaking out of the cutters.  

DON'T PUT THE OIL IN THE CUTTER!

My teacher did not recommend these cutters for several reasons....

 1.  The pistol grips aren't much good for anything but straight cuts.
 2.  There is more to go wrong with the resevoir cutters.
 3.  He "just don't like 'em."

I tried a pistol grip, I did not like it.  It was too hard to control.

Also, I find that I can better control the amount of oil on the head of 
the cutter by dipping it in oil and wiping on a rag if there is too much.

Just my .02 worth.

Thanks for listenin'.

Bob Jones                        rejones@capaccess.org

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 08:07:45 1997
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From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  Your comments, please
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:09:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr8.5924.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Hey Albert,

Just checked out yours and the Cummings sites.  Viewed them with a 5x86,
running Netscape 3.01 on a 56K connection.  I personally like the "fade"
on the Cummings site and found the text quite easy to read (color
adjustments on monitors is such a personal thing).  

Honestly, I called up the URLs thinking I would glimpse at your work and
offer a simple critique.  I was drawn "into" the sites with their
attractive appearance and their ease of operation.  All links worked
perfectly on both sites.  It was a very pleasant visit (though longer
and more enjoyable than originally anticipated).  

Albert.......what can I say?  VERY NICE!!  A well-done job---BRAVO! 
Consider yourself "bookmarked"!

Shirley
Grapeland, Tx.
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 08:54:07 1997
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From: bashful <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: paring down the posts...
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 11:53:39 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr8.45339.0>
References: <<m0wENN4-0001IeC@daver.bungi.com>>
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Organization: Heretics United
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I belong to a number of mail lists other than this one. I have noticed
these same type of comments in all  of them, at one time or another.
Some people will/can edit a reply.
Some people won't/can't(due to an inflexible news reader). Some people
will never be happy, regardless of their software. Some of the best
information is posted by people who don't edit the reply. Annoying? Yes
-but a cheap price to pay. My 2 drachmas     
<selective snipping here>
Glenna Rand wrote:
.  I've been subzcribing to this group for about a month and
> > have considered unsubzcribing a couple of times...because of the repeats of
> > repeats of posts, the long taglines (which can be repeated several times due
> > to unedited reposting), and also the numerous messages which could be
> > handled more appropriately via a private email posting only to the
> > individual involved.
> >
> It's just that I've been noticing lately that there's a lot of
> > bandwidth being taken up unnecessarily...and wondering if it's only myself
> > that finds this cumbersome?  

> > Overall, I'm pleased with the communication and helpfulness of the
> > group...it just seems to require some perseverence to get through all the
> > extraneous stuff. 
> > Cheers
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 09:10:50 1997
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From: "Lynn & Dave Loda" <dloda@nwi.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: stepping stones archives
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:13:31 -0700
Message-ID: <199704081615.JAA11830@nwinternet.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



----------
> From: Dawn <dawnm@sullivan.fidnet.com>
> To: Joni Tornwall <glasqult@1st.net>; glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: stepping stones archives
> Date: Tuesday, April 08, 1997 8:33 AM
> 
> > I did receive 2
> >copies of what I think are the stepping stone archives anyway.  Do >they
> >start out "Kathy, I have several questions regarding the stepping
> >stones, not the least of which is why they cost so
>much".......something
> l>ike that?  Maybe you posted the archives to the whole group. 
> 
> Hi Joni,
> 
> I did accidentally post the file to the group yesterday (was trying to
> hurry and get all my mail out during my lunch break and evidently
> my fingers were working faster than my brain.  Ha!)
> 
> The notes from the Archive did start out with that message.  *But*, if
> you are interested in receiving a copy of the archive I wouldn't 
> suggest using that.  It would be better for me to send you an
> attachment of the file in ASCII format.  Then you could save it
> to your hard drive, pull it up in a wordprocessing program and use
> it however you want.  That way, you can do keyword searchs,
> format it however you want,  print out whatever sections you want,
> etc.  
> 
> I'm going to go ahead and send this message to the whole group
> so they know the benefits of receiving the ASCII file, as opposed
> to just using what accidentally showed up yesterday.  I'll send you
> another note in a minute with the file attached.
> 
> Dawn
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 09:39:31 1997
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From: SPRECHFAM@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Subject: copy of the file
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 12:38:51 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr8.83851.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn,

I would appreciate a copy of the mosaic stone files.  Thanks you.

Sprechfam@aol.com
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 10:30:40 1997
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From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Date: Tue,  8 Apr 97 10:29:57 -0700
Message-ID: <m0wEeiV-000LiCC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1997Apr7.194153.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
> I am quite new to stained glass and I have a lot of things that I want to
> ask but my main concern now is my grinder. I did not havea grinder of my own
> until now as I was using the teacher's one now I purchased one. I willonly
> beusingthe grinder here in the US for another 5-6 months then I will be
> taking it to Europe where the voltage is 220
> so I bought a 220 grinder fit to be used in Europe.Everyone that I had
> talked to had told me that I could use it here in the US with a
> transformer.Today I called the company which manufactues the grinder to ask
> how many watts should my transformer be only to be told that you could not
> use grinders with transformers because the motor would blow up. I was
> shocked by this info as I know that almost every electrical appliance can be
> used with a proper transformer. My question is whether anyone knows if this
> info is accurate or not.I would really appreciate if you could let me
> know.Thanks. VAFI5@AOL.COM ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at <http://www.bungi.com/glass

partially inaccurate. some appliances can run using transformers. most of  
these are electronic though, as they have internal power supplies that can  
take inputs of 50hz a/c current instead of 60hz. however, most a/c motors  
cannot tolerate this, and generate a lot more heat when run at the wrong  
frequency. they most probably meant burn up rather than blow up.

d/c motors can probably be run ok at the wrong frequency with a transformer,  
but they're a lot more expensive and i would doubt that a grinder would have  
one.

check the directions that came with the grinder. it states somewhere the  
operating ranges for voltage and frequency. sometimes these give a range, and  
if so, the equipment can be used. some other items have switches or internal  
plugs that can be arranged differently for differing voltages and/or  
frequencies. with today's international market, more stuff is made to be used  
everywhere. this cuts down on manufacturing and servicing costs.
---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 11:13:50 1997
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To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: [Fwd: ]
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 14:12:53 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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So much for ask the expert I guess the subject isn't intereting enough

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Date:Tue, 8 Apr 1997 07:44:28 -0400
From: Scientific Editors <editors@sciam.com>
To: "shyguy@vdot.net" <shyguy@vdot.net>
Message-ID: <970408.114428@sciam.com>
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We received your request for assistance in your research.  Much as we =
would like to help, the enormous volume of mail that we receive simply =
makes it impossible for us to do so.  =

Thank you for thinking of SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN and good luck with your work.=


Sincerely,
THE EDITORS
--------------------------------------
Date: 4/4/97 12:54 AM
From: Unprivileged user
Name: Bob van Valen
Phone: 212 460 7131
Fax: 212 995 8453
Email: shyguy@vdot.net
Address: 770 Broadway 9th fl c/o FTI
City: New York
State: New York
Country: USA
Zip: 10003
Question: Many years ago SI had an article about the effect =
of water on a flaw/scratch on the surface of glass.
I vaguely remember it had to do with the release of =
Atoms or ions, and the chemical effect on the =
glass. The water increased the penetration of the =
'vee' throiugh the glass surface.

I am asking this, as I work with leaded glass, and =
participate in UseNet newsgroups and email list =
concering glass art or all types. A discuusion has =
arisen about the purpose of using oil, kerosene, or =
othe petrochemcals on the wheel of the glass =
cutter. Some feel it is to lubricate the cutting =
wheel and its axle, others feel it has an affect on =
the glass itself. I lean toward the effect, with =
the need for lubrications a secondary, but =
worthwhile need. Is there an online archive =
available, or can some there shed some light on the =
subject? Thank you in advance for your assistance =
name: Submit


--------------397414EE4A55--

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 11:17:31 1997
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From: WLester380@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stepping Stone "File"
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:16:53 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr8.101653.0>
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Dawn -
I just finished going through the stepping stone file which you compiled from
the Bungi archives.  Thanks, this was a great help.  I appreciate all of the
time that it must have taken you to sort through the tons of redundancies!
You are great!
Bill
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 12:16:43 1997
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From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:16:15 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr8.111615.0>
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In a message dated 97-04-08 13:12:34 EDT, you write:

<<  For whatever it's worth, I have used Baby Oil in my Toyo for years and
had
 > great luck. The fluid seems light enough to flow to the head without
 > clogging.  >>

Sounds very pleasant to me. I would love to try this. Maybe next cutter. I
was told that once you've used a certain type of oil in a cutter that you
should stick with it and not change. Any thoughts on this?

Janet Farrington
imn2glass@aol.com
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 13:06:57 1997
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: imn2glass@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:06:13 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530507af706121951d@[129.119.37.12]>
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Janet,

   I have used the same pencil-like cutter for a number of years, and have
replaced the head a couple of times. I started with the oil they sell at
glass supply stores, then tried the light machine oil used on small motors
such as tape recorders, and finally turned to baby oil.
   At the point I was making each switch, I made sure the cutter was
practically dry. I could not tell that switching affected the cutter at
all. So, I would say that you should feel fairly safe in switching once you
are out, or viturally out, of your present oil.
   I'll add, too, that I feel much less concern about running the cutter's
head across my palm to be sure it's oiling okay with baby oil in it that I
used to feel doing the same thing with machine oil in it.

=Gary



>In a message dated 97-04-08 13:12:34 EDT, you write:
>
><<  For whatever it's worth, I have used Baby Oil in my Toyo for years and
>had
> > great luck. The fluid seems light enough to flow to the head without
> > clogging.  >>
>
>Sounds very pleasant to me. I would love to try this. Maybe next cutter. I
>was told that once you've used a certain type of oil in a cutter that you
>should stick with it and not change. Any thoughts on this?
>
>Janet Farrington
>imn2glass@aol.com



      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 15:48:50 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  Your comments, please
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
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> Honestly, I called up the URLs thinking I would glimpse at your work and
> offer a simple critique.  I was drawn "into" the sites with their
> attractive appearance and their ease of operation.  All links worked
> perfectly on both sites.  It was a very pleasant visit (though longer
> and more enjoyable than originally anticipated). 

Thanks for the kudos, Shirley. Much appreciated. <s>

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 16:02:54 1997
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From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Oil for Cutter
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 18:55:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr8.145528.0>
References: <<1997Apr8.7132.0>>
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Robert E. Jones wrote:
> 
> It seems to me that we are missing the easiest and fastest way to solve
> th problem of oil leaking out of the cutters.
> 
> DON'T PUT THE OIL IN THE CUTTER!
> 
We use our cutters 8 hours a day.  As a time saving matter we do not
put oil in them.  It takes more time to deal with oil in them than
it takes to just dip the cutters.  The cutters are very good, some
of us use the pistol grip, some use the standard grip.  Being the
stick-in-the-mud that I am my preferrence is the standard grip.

> My teacher did not recommend these cutters for several reasons....
> 
>  1.  The pistol grips aren't much good for anything but straight cuts.
>  2.  There is more to go wrong with the resevoir cutters.
>  3.  He "just don't like 'em."
> 
The key here is "don't like 'em".  The pistol grips are the most popular 
single type of cutter.  They pistol grips lose a little bit of
flexibility
due to the position of the hand.  The flexibility lost is not very 
important for the average user.  The important thing is COMFORT.  
What is the most comfortable way for a beginner to hold a cutter?

There was a lot of talk about cutting oil mixtures.  The 'oil' should be
thick enough to stay with the cutter wheel for a long cut (kerosene
drops 
off the wheel too quickly) but not so thick that it collects glass chips
around the wheel.  The single most important function of the 'oil' is 
keeping the cutter wheel cool.  In commercial glass shops you might see 
a cutter (person) brush oil on the glass before scoring.  This is done 
because the oil does not stick with the cutter on a long score.  In 
cutting circles I brush on oil prior to scoring.  Oil is an important 
part of scoring glass.

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro
http://www.warner-criv.com
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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 18:53:32 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Oil for Cutter
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 21:52:31 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970408214339.006882ec@mail.bright.net>
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>DON'T PUT THE OIL IN THE CUTTER!
>
>My teacher did not recommend these cutters for several reasons....
>
> 1.  The pistol grips aren't much good for anything but straight cuts.
> 2.  There is more to go wrong with the resevoir cutters.
> 3.  He "just don't like 'em."
>
>I tried a pistol grip, I did not like it.  It was too hard to control.
>
>Also, I find that I can better control the amount of oil on the head of 
>the cutter by dipping it in oil and wiping on a rag if there is too much.
>
>Just my .02 worth.
>
>Thanks for listenin'.
>
>Bob Jones                       

IMHO you should pass on information or opinions that are your own and not
that of others.  People with real experience with these cutters have real
solutions to offer, not just passing on biases from those who are not able
to really justify their positions.  My experience of over 11 years with a
pistol grip cutter is that 
	1) some leak and some don't
	2) you don't really need to put oil in them, but if you do that's fine
	3) control is in the eye of the beholder.  I have absolutely no problem
controlling my swivel head.  Some people do not have that advantage and are
better suited to those that do not have that feature.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 21:12:54 1997
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Chartres stained glass visit
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 20:17:47 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr8.131747.0>
References: <<199704010149.CAA28347@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Hi Elisabeth:
	Just returned home.  It is now 4:20 a.m. your time and 8:00 my
time.  To say I am tired is an understatement.  Just wanted you to know
what a wonderful trip Chartres '97 has been.  I shall certainly look
forward to the next one.
	My husband met me in San Luis Obispo and everything was on time.
Just wanted to say thank you many times over.  Also, I didn't have a
minute to spare by the time I got through the security at Heathrow.  I
literally ran to gate 14...after arriving at gate 27.  Wrong gate for my
flight.  Had an uneventful return.  Now, I am going to finally get
something to eat and say hello to Luther.  Love to Susan.  I will talk to
you later when I am more coherent.  Love, Peggy.

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From owner-glass Tue Apr  8 22:55:21 1997
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From: palomino@catalina-inter.net (Margaret Palomino)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks Bungians!
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:58:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr8.15582.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi All -

Thanks for the warm welcome and for all the advice on heating glass vis a
vis my paint stripper.  Mike and Doug, I'll take your advice and pass on
using the paint stripper for that purpose, and try some of the other
methods that were suggested by the two of you and Lee.  Carol, I'd not
heard before that warm glass was also easier to foil.  I'll definitely try
that!

Wayne, thanks for the words of encouragement on my glass cutting
techniques.  I will absolutely go out a buy some cheapo glass to practice
my cuts on.

Dawn, thank you for the stepping stone info.  You did a great job of
compiling a wealth of knowledge, and it's greatly appreciated!

Maureen, if you look into the archives (address below), you will find that
Ed Sibbett's patterns are not well thought of by some of the members of
this group.

It was very exciting to read the archives, and then follow the links to
veteran Bungian home pages.  Mike Savad, Howard, Elizabeth, Glenna and
Shattered Images, your web pages are awesome!  Seeing the caliber of your
glass work makes me respect your advice and comments that much more.  Are
there any other members of the list who have web pages that I've missed?

I read in the archives about the "Atlas" project, which would contain
patterns designed by people on this list.  How is that coming along?  Are
designs still being submitted?  To whom?

Margie
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 06:08:44 1997
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From: David Cogen <cogen@ll.mit.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Date: Wed,  9 Apr 97 09:04:03 -0400
Message-ID: <9704090904.AA05211@LL.MIT.EDU>
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> called the company which manufactues the grinder to ask how many watts should
> my transformer be only to be told that you could not use grinders with
> transformers because the motor would blow up.

Don't accept that answer. "Blow up?" What does this mean? Like a bomb? Get
someone who is willing and able to give you a real explanation. That is
nonsense. Tell them that. There is no way to make a motor "blow up" using a
transformer.

A transformer is the best, most accurate way to convert AC voltages. But
frequency is another matter. In Europe they use 50hz; in USA, 60hz. You need to
find out if the grinder will work with both frequencies.

-- David
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 06:53:44 1997
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X-Path: busprod.com!artist
From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Kudos, Dawn!
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 08:56:45 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970409085645.0069e09c@busprod.com>
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Thanks for the copy of the Stepping Stone Archive...you did a great job of
compilation!

I only wish I would have found this group before I started making
stones...I could have saved myself some time consuming experimentation! LJ

  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 07:06:30 1997
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From: "Gonzales, Diane" <gonzales.teresa@tchden.org>
To: bungi group <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Opinions on Cutter Oil
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:04:00 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr9.140.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Joyce Moran,

I agree.  I, myself would not do well with no oil in my cutter because I
can just see myself forgetting to dip the wheel.  It would be a matter
of forming a new habit.

M Savad,

Thanks for your response about the cutter and the half bevels  I think I
may buy the same cutter you mentioned.  I want to see which cutter I
have better control with; pistol vs. the Score Master 2.  Thanks again.

Bungians!  You are all wonderful.  I enjoy all the input.  Thank you.

T Diane Gonzales
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 08:13:52 1997
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From: bashful <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Opinions on Cutter Oil
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 11:13:11 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr9.41311.0>
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Organization: Heretics United
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Gonzales, Diane wrote:
> 
> Joyce Moran,
> 
> I agree.  I, myself would not do well with no oil in my cutter because I
> can just see myself forgetting to dip the wheel.  It would be a matter
> of forming a new habit.
<snip>
I have both types, and I the the habit comment says it all - just before
I cut I dip the cutter in oil -whichever I am using. Is it silly to dip
a filled resevoir cutter? Yeah, but when I'm concentrating, I think
certain processes go over to Autopilot.
I find that the different cutters score better on different types of
glass. I was told that different makers use different angles on the Vee
on the wheels. 
I guess if you can try them out at a local store, you can see what works
for you. Or if you've got deep pockets, buy one of each.
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 08:23:55 1997
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: foiling warm glass
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:23:23 -0700
Message-ID: <199704091523.IAA24301@norm.island.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I don't think that warm glass is any easier to foil, it's just the warmth
seems to make the adhesive easier to work with and burnish down, and since
the strength of copper foil is in how well the foil adheres to the glass...

Cheers

Carol 
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 11:17:36 1997
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Subject: Re: grinder
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 01:54:04 +0000
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On  8 Apr 97, Albert Lewis wrote:

> > called the company which manufactues the grinder to ask how many
> > watts should my transformer be only to be told that you could not
> > use grinders with transformers because the motor would blow up.
> 
> Could it be that they're merely trying to tell you that you do so at
> your own risk, that they won't accept any responsibility? My
> six-year-old grandson's get-in-and-drive-it-around-yourself car with
> pedals has a warning sticker that says, "Do not drive this car in
> traffic. It is not a real automobile and does not meet road safety
> regulations." As though a six-year-old were going to thing it were!
> 
> Albert


No it really will blow up. Transfrmers change the wave pattern, and 
it affects electric motors. 

But many manufacturers have dual valtage switchs.  I recommend you 
find one of that type
Blessed Be

Myrddn

Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity!


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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 11:18:11 1997
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand),
Subject: Re: paring down the posts...
Summary: Authenticated sender is <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 01:43:46 +0000
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On  7 Apr 97, Glenna Rand wrote:

>.......  It's just that I've been noticing lately that
> > there's a lot of bandwidth being taken up unnecessarily...and
> > wondering if it's only myself that finds this cumbersome? 


what is bandwidth?
Blessed Be

Myrddn

Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity!


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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 11:18:46 1997
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz),
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Summary: Authenticated sender is <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 01:46:44 +0000
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On  7 Apr 97, Gary Shultz wrote:

> >> Also, the product instructions that came with my new Toyo say to
> >> use Kerosene and to fill never more than half full. It says a
> >> thicker fluid is likely to cause clogging. Anyone use kerosene???
> >>    Kris
Yes, I have been using kerosene. But my pencil grip really leaks.  I 
switched to 3-in-1 oil.
Blessed Be

Myrddn

Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity!


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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 14:23:00 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: foiling warm glass
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 17:21:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr9.132133.0>
References: <<199704091523.IAA24301@norm.island.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Carol Swann wrote:
> 
> I don't think that warm glass is any easier to foil, it's just the warmth
> seems to make the adhesive easier to work with and burnish down, and since
> the strength of copper foil is in how well the foil adheres to the glass...
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Carol
> Synergy Glass & Creative
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

maybe if it's colder the heat from hands may cause the glass to
condensate, making the foil not stick. a little far fetched, but still
plausible.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 16:25:46 1997
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X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz
From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: oil and toil
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 18:24:19 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <199704092324.SAA09993@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

  Hi Bunginians (bungians),


I use peanut oil with my cutters so that if I don't feel like doing any
glass work I'll have something to fry my wontons in. Just kidding of course,
my way of saying that I'm glad to be back after somehow loosing my
subscription  for about three weeks. Thanks Albert. 

I did check out the archives and got caught up with all the graphics chat
and found it very informative and somewhat relavent to boot.

Just my 0.02  on cutters and oil

I know a few production cutters (40-60 hours a week, every week) that have
taken to using the pistol grip they say it causes far less fatigue. It's
funny though how people get set in their ways with tools, the pistol grip
was laying around this shop for years until someone tried it out and
discovered how comfortable it was to use...BTW.. Its the person who is
responsible for accuracy not the tool and they have adjusted quite nicely
thank-you.

Someone said that the oil on the cutter cools it, well I guess thats true
since the definition of lubrication to reduce friction which causes heat and
wear. You know it feels way better when you roll an oiled cutter across the
glass! I've always held that  since the wheel is crushing the surface of the
glass and the wheel has to negotiate its way through this rubble that the
oil causes a surface tension that moves this debris aside allowing the for
better contact between the wheel and the glass surface and in turn a cleaner
sharper score. Just my humble opinion.

Well back to flood duty, the Mighty Mississippi is big and ugly this year.
We expect 2 feet of water over the hiway through town but no evacuation of
homes fortunately.

Len

check out my website... at corner of the window 
above the kitchen sink
     

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 16:39:55 1997
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From: Arthur Sexton <wsexton@connecti.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 18:39:49 -0500
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970409233949.006c2130@connecti.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have taken my grinder to Europe and used a "transformer" that works for
other electrical appliances...no problems.  Motors are not nearly as
sensitive to electrical variations as other solid ciruit appliances so I
would not see where there should be a problem.
    ___          __  _____              __       
   /   |  _____ / /_/ ___/ ___   _  __ / /_ ____   ____
  / /| | / ___// __/\__ \ / _ \ | |/_// __// __ \ / __ \
 / ___ |/ /   / /_ ___/ //  __/_>  < / /_ / /_/ // / / /
/_/  |_|_/    \__//____/ \___//_/|_| \__/ \____//_/ /_/
                             

Is there man with nerve enough
to think that two sexes aren't enough?

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 17:46:12 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: oil and toil
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 97 19:49:49 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.24949.0>
References: <<199704092324.SAA09993@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Len,

I'm putting in a late night at the office to beat a deadline Friday, and =
just decided to take a short breather and check my glass mail.  Your mess=
age gave me the laugh I desperately needed!  (Although I think of all the=
 archives I have been through, I've decided your response to the person =
inquiring about the dangers of doing stained glass while trying to get =
pregnant has to be the classic--can't top that!)

Back to my toiling over reports late into the evening....

Dawn

P.S. Where along the Miss. are you located?

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 17:48:22 1997
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X-Path: artisticglassusa.com!studio
From: studio@artisticglassusa.com (Artistic Glass of Atlanta)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 20:51:38 -0400
Message-ID: <v01510101af71e9c3e352@[207.69.221.178]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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>    ___          __  _____              __
>   /   |  _____ / /_/ ___/ ___   _  __ / /_ ____   ____
>  / /| | / ___// __/\__ \ / _ \ | |/_// __// __ \ / __ \
> / ___ |/ /   / /_ ___/ //  __/_>  < / /_ / /_/ // / / /
>/_/  |_|_/    \__//____/ \___//_/|_| \__/ \____//_/ /_/
>
>

What does this thing say?

        -Michael

Michael Delaware
www.artisticglassusa.com
michael@artisticglassusa.com
Phone: 770-992-2900
Fax: 770-518-8686


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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 18:08:15 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 21:06:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr9.17649.0>
References: <<v01510101af71e9c3e352@[207.69.221.178]>>
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Artistic Glass of Atlanta wrote:
> 
> >    ___          __  _____              __
> >   /   |  _____ / /_/ ___/ ___   _  __ / /_ ____   ____
> >  / /| | / ___// __/\__ \ / _ \ | |/_// __// __ \ / __ \
> > / ___ |/ /   / /_ ___/ //  __/_>  < / /_ / /_/ // / / /
> >/_/  |_|_/    \__//____/ \___//_/|_| \__/ \____//_/ /_/
> >
> >
> 
> What does this thing say?
> 
>         -Michael
> 
> Michael Delaware
> www.artisticglassusa.com
> michael@artisticglassusa.com
> Phone: 770-992-2900
> Fax: 770-518-8686
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it's his name done in slashes art sexton.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 18:12:09 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:18:27 +0000
Message-ID: <199704100111.VAA07102@ns.computer.net>
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  ___          __  _____              __
> >   /   |  _____ / /_/ ___/ ___   _  __ / /_ ____   ____
> >  / /| | / ___// __/\__ \ / _ \ | |/_// __// __ \ / __ \
> > / ___ |/ /   / /_ ___/ //  __/_>  < / /_ / /_/ // / / /
> >/_/  |_|_/    \__//____/ \___//_/|_| \__/ \____//_/ /_/
> >
> >
> 
> What does this thing say?

Hmm. I thought it was Taliesin Worst.

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 18:13:20 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:19:43 +0000
Message-ID: <199704100112.VAA07226@ns.computer.net>
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> it's his name done in slashes art sexton.

Wow, I must be *really tired. I can't see that at all. Off to bed for 
me, that's for sure.

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 18:34:08 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: oil and toil
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 20:33:41 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr9.203341.0>
References: <<199704092324.SAA09993@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> check out my website... at corner of the window
> above the kitchen sink

ROFL!!!
Welcome back, Len.
You have been missed.
Good lunck with floods!
Hilary
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 18:42:15 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Thanks Bungians!
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 20:41:47 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr9.204147.0>
References: <<1997Apr8.15582.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> I read in the archives about the "Atlas" project, which would contain
> patterns designed by people on this list.  How is that coming along?  Are
> designs still being submitted?  To whom?
> 
> Margie

Hello, Margie.
Designs are most certainly being submitted still. My understanding is
that the archive is to be a never-ending project. 

Joyce is the blessed volunteer accepting them.

Send patterns to joyce@mail.bright.net or
        Garden of Glass
        501 N. Madriver St.
        Bellefontaine, OH 43311

Take care,
Hilary
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 18:49:30 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 97 20:53:03 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.3533.0>
References: <<199704100112.VAA07226@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Michael and Albert,

You have the same problem that I do.  My mail displays in a proportional =
font, so things like that do not show up as they should.  When I format =
it with a fixed-spaced font, such as courier, it makes all the difference=
--can actually see what it says.

Don't make that optometrist appointment just yet--it's not your eyes, jus=
t your font.

Dawn

>Wow, I must be *really tired. I can't see that at all. Off to bed for =

>me, that's for sure.

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 19:31:29 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 22:29:13 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970409221716.006affb8@mail.bright.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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At 08:41 PM 4/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> I read in the archives about the "Atlas" project, which would contain
>> patterns designed by people on this list.  How is that coming along?  Are
>> designs still being submitted?  To whom?

I am still receiving patterns.  And I have worked hard this week to try to
get them on the bungi.com web site...but so far no luck.  Still working on
it though.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran

Send patterns to  Garden of Glass
		     501 N. Madriver St.
	            Bellefontaine, OH 43311

	or email joyce@mail.bright.net

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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 19:37:40 1997
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From: Vafi5@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 22:37:05 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr9.18375.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Thanks for all the info regarding the grinder's usage with a
transformer.Especially Arthur who said he used his with one.VAFI5.
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 19:42:12 1997
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X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn
From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Butterfly Molds
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 22:44:51 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr9.154451.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

We received the Butterfly molds to day... They look Great..Contact us
before you BUY..
Thanks,
Walter and Rhonda
1-800-458-6292
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From owner-glass Wed Apr  9 19:58:28 1997
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From: Paul Deutsch <beermug@snowcrest.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Barbara-book
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 19:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199704100257.TAA14488@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Barbara-I heard from the lady that wanted the Tiffany book, she ordered it
through the local bookstore because the price was cheaper, well, seems the
bookstore cannot get it for her, do you still have access to it?  Apparently
the book is discontinued and only if you have it in stock, can you get it.

Thanks
Sherry

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 05:33:22 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Plant Sconces
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 06:50:10 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.145010.0>
References: <<1997Apr7.22849.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd also like the pattern ( copy ) I'd be willing to pay the postage
also.
Mary Austin diamonds@juno.com
801 Merry Lane Greeenwood, IN 46142

Thanks!




On Mon, 7 Apr 1997 06:28:49 -0400 (EDT) Yegnim@aol.com writes:
>     To:  Gloria
> From:  Eleanor (Yegnim@aol)
>
> I am looking for some unusual pieces to make and I have never 
>encountered
>herb/plant sconces before.  Would you share info with me?  Did you use 
>a
>custom pattern or make your own?  What hardware for hanging do you 
>intend to
>use?  I would love to see what they look like!  Could you send me a 
>pattern
>with instructions?  If you e-mail me personally I can give you my 
>mailing
>address as I don't believe we are supposed to give that info on bungi 
>space.
> I will be happy to pay any postage due.
>
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 06:30:31 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Restrip vs. Strongline Reinforcement
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 08:34:11 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.153411.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Good morning everyone,

I have a question about reinforcement in a copper foil project.   Is
there some criteria that determines when you use Restrip, which is
10 mil, and when you use Strongline, which is 20 mil.?   I'm getting 
ready to begin a copper foil project that is approximately 4 square 
feet and I'm not sure which I should order.  I also heard that you can =
use solder wick as reinforcement because the braid fills with
solder.  What are your preferences for reinforcement material in 
copper foil projects?

Dawn

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 06:48:05 1997
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X-Path: artisticglassusa.com!studio
From: studio@artisticglassusa.com (Artistic Glass of Atlanta)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinder
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:51:11 -0400
Message-ID: <v01510100af72a07ab567@[207.69.221.178]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

RE:
>
>it's his name done in slashes art sexton.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
Cool.  Thanks for clearing that up for me Mike.

-Michael

Michael Delaware
www.artisticglassusa.com
michael@artisticglassusa.com
Phone: 770-992-2900
Fax: 770-518-8686


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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 07:04:24 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Barbara-book
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:02:57 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.6257.0>
References: <<199704100257.TAA14488@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Paul Deutsch wrote:
> 
> Barbara-I heard from the lady that wanted the Tiffany book, she ordered it
> through the local bookstore because the price was cheaper, well, seems the
> bookstore cannot get it for her, do you still have access to it?  Apparently
> the book is discontinued and only if you have it in stock, can you get it.
> 
> Thanks
> Sherry
> 
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i thnk i got that tiffany book in the smithsonian muesum store, in some
mall. and i got it for half off for some reason. check your local more
fancy and expensive malls, there might be one near you.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 07:08:23 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Restrip vs. Strongline Reinforcement
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:07:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.678.0>
References: <<1997Apr10.153411.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn wrote:
> 
> Good morning everyone,
> 
> I have a question about reinforcement in a copper foil project.   Is
> there some criteria that determines when you use Restrip, which is
> 10 mil, and when you use Strongline, which is 20 mil.?   I'm getting
> ready to begin a copper foil project that is approximately 4 square
> feet and I'm not sure which I should order.  I also heard that you can =
> use solder wick as reinforcement because the braid fills with
> solder.  What are your preferences for reinforcement material in
> copper foil projects?
> 
> Dawn
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i like the braided kind, though this one is'nt the solder wick.
generally the thicker it is the harder it will be to shove in between
spaces, but it will also be stronger. i'd get both kinds, and stick them
in different places.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 07:09:05 1997
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X-Path: telalink.net!wood
From: wood@telalink.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mosaics
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:10:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.41018.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi
One of the craft bulletin boards put up this link:
www.thegrid.net/michele.glover/picassiette.htm
It has pictures of 2 mosaic stepping stones, 1 mosaic bird bath, and 1
mosaic garden bench. I'm sure they were done the glue and grout method.
Thought someone might be interested.

Sandy
Creations In Glass
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 08:10:49 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: the fused art newsletter
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:09:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.7930.0>
References: <<1997Apr10.678.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

does anyone here belong to or know if "the fused art newsletter" is
online, i want to make sure i'm on the list, but i don't want to write
to them.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 10:27:20 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Vafi5
From: Vafi5@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: plant sconces
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:26:18 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.92618.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

  I would like a copy of the plant sconces too please  let me know how
.Thanks.VAFI5@AOL.COM.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 14:04:02 1997
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From: IMN2GLASS2@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Restrip vs. Strongline Reinforcement
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:03:00 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.1330.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-04-10 12:33:18 EDT, you write:

<< Subj:	Re: Restrip vs. Strongline Reinforcement
 Date:	97-04-10 12:33:18 EDT
 From:	morn@nac.net (M. Savad)
 Reply-to:	glass@bungi.com
 To:	glass@bungi.com
 
 Dawn wrote:
 > 
 > Good morning everyone,
 > 
 > I have a question about reinforcement in a copper foil project.   Is
 > there some criteria that determines when you use Restrip, which is
 > 10 mil, and when you use Strongline, which is 20 mil.?   I'm getting
 > ready to begin a copper foil project that is approximately 4 square
 > feet and I'm not sure which I should order.  I also heard that you can =
 > use solder wick as reinforcement because the braid fills with
 > solder.  What are your preferences for reinforcement material in
 > copper foil projects?
 > 
 > Dawn
 > 
 > ----
 > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
 > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
 > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
 
 
 i like the braided kind, though this one is'nt the solder wick.
 generally the thicker it is the harder it will be to shove in between
 spaces, but it will also be stronger. i'd get both kinds, and stick them
 in different places.
 
 ---Mike Savad
 
 -- 
 Mike's Stained Glass
 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
 
 New Pages Added:
 
  - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
  - The Creative Process
  - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
  - Picking Out Glass in the Store
 
  - Plus New Photos
  - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
  - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
  - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden
 
  - But That's Not All!!!
  - My Links Page is UP!
  - And Awards Page Too
 ----
 For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
 To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
 Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
 
 
 ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
 From owner-glass@daver.bungi.com  Thu Apr 10 12:32:37 1997
 Return-Path: <owner-glass@daver.bungi.com>
 Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2])
 	  by emin41.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-2.0.0)
 	  with SMTP id MAA15282;
 	  Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:32:22 -0400 (EDT)
 Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #15)
 	id m0wFKW4-00006Ia; Thu, 10 Apr 97 07:07 PDT
 X-Path: nac.net!morn
 From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
 To: glass@bungi.com
 Subject: Re: Restrip vs. Strongline Reinforcement
 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:07:08 -0400
 Message-ID: <1997Apr10.678.0>
 References: <<1997Apr10.153411.0>>
 Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
 Precedence: bulk
  >>
Dawn, I'm by no means an expert but my particular preference for reinforcing
a copper foil panel would be 10 mil copper restrip. I have a friend who used
this on a very large panel and had nice strong results. As long as you find a
good vertical pattern line to reinforce as well as a good horizontal line, I
think you won't have any difficulty. I have also used braided reinforcing
material for smaller projects that mhave worked nicely.My glass partner and I
have done a number of 3-d projects that needed the copper restrip for
strength, We've had nice luck with both restrip and braid for this. Good luck
with your panel, Judy Davis(IMN2GLASS2@AOL.COM)

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 15:09:54 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Those on AOL Who Requested File
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 15:18:23 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.221823.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I just received notice that the messages I sent to those on AOL
attaching a copy of my ASCII file were not delivered.  It seems to
have bounced back all the messages I sent on Monday that were
addressed to AOL clients.  I'll attach a portion of the message.  if
anyone has any idea what happened, please let me know.  Does
AOL have a limit on the size of file you can attach?  
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 15:19:37 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Those on AOL Who Requested File
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:22:09 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970410172209.006a38d4@busprod.com>
References: <<1997Apr10.221823.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>I just received notice that the messages I sent to those on AOL
>attaching a copy of my ASCII file were not delivered.  It seems to
>have bounced back all the messages I sent on Monday that were
>addressed to AOL clients.  I'll attach a portion of the message.  if
>anyone has any idea what happened, please let me know.  Does
>AOL have a limit on the size of file you can attach?  

Dawn...It's been about a year since I have used AOL, but at that time AOL
mail could not send or receive attached files. This may have changed and
they're having their usual AOL type problems. LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 16:00:50 1997
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From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Those on AOL Who Requested File
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:54:17 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.85417.0>
References: <<1997Apr10.221823.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn wrote:
>  Does
> AOL have a limit on the size of file you can attach?
> ----

Dawn,
	I also have AOL but as you have seen I am using Netcom. AOL does have a
limit but what the limit is I don't know. I am going to drop AOL in May
after I get my free month for being sooo patient when you never can log
on.  I actually think that Netcom has a limit too. As for mime files I
have know idea how to access one. 

not that I've helped....Melissa 
Hind sight is better to have before hand!
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 17:01:58 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: the fused art newsletter
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:57:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.15572.0>
References: <<1997Apr10.7930.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike S.

Yes I belong-and just talked to Judy this morning.  They are not "on
line" They have their studios just a short distance north of Sarasota. 
Here is there phone #, you can phone them to get on the list.
941-792-3078 or fax 941-795-1576  They are teaching a fusing  and
enamels class at the AGSA June 25-27, Baltimore MD .  They make
beautiful Fused creations and use Dichroic glass too.  Tell them if you
call that I posted this, so they don't wonder where a bunch of calls are
coming from all of a sudden.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> does anyone here belong to or know if "the fused art newsletter" is
> online, i want to make sure i'm on the list, but i don't want to write
> to them.
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 17:27:04 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS
From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Those on AOL Who Requested File
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:25:17 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.162517.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-04-10 18:11:23 EDT, you write:

<< I just received notice that the messages I sent to those on AOL
 attaching a copy of my ASCII file were not delivered.  It seems to
 have bounced back all the messages I sent on Monday that were
 addressed to AOL clients. >>

You know Dawn, I have AOL and another server too. Sometimes lately when I
forward something to AOL it gets bounced. Does yours say that they will keep
trying for 5 days. If so, it will get here eventually, don't worry. If it's a
fatal error, then it won't be delivered at all. If it's a non-fatal error,
they will keep trying. 

If it was fatal, you can send a copy to me at jsfarr@capecod.net I know that
won't help anyone else, but it takes care of me. I have a couple of friends
on this list that are on AOL too. So if I get it I can help them out maybe.

Thanks for letting us know.

Janet Farrington
jsfarr@capecod.net
imn2glass@aol.com
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 17:50:06 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: computer generated heraldry
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:48:41 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.164841.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-04-05 14:21:44 EST, you write:

<< I was wondering if any of the group knew of a computer program which 
 generated coats of arms >>

No but it is a great idea.

You might try some of the large internet, shareware sites.
I would search on items like "software & heraldry" etc.

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 17:50:31 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 2
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:49:09 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.16499.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-04-04 23:43:17 EST, you write:

<< and again, why do you fill the cutters with oil??????????
 
 I just have to throw my $.02 in here, metal on glass generates
quite a bit of heat, the oil keeps the cutting wheel cool, and sharp.

similarly if you were cutting a new thread with a die, you would
lubricate it, in order to keep the die sharp.
 

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 18:59:33 1997
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "JJKIRBY@aol.com" <JJKIRBY@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 321659
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 18:57:50 -0500
Message-ID: <199704110157.SAA19498@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

I am under the impression that friction generates heat, and just HOW MUCH
friction (heat) is generated by a score....IMHO with a modicum of experience
, it is probably rare to have a person score enough glass or draw a long
enough score to cause it to "heat" up.

One of my original questions was:::::::: "WHY DO YOU FILL THE CUTTER WITH
OIL".....I was not touting not using it, but why filling the cutter.

enjoy........H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 19:35:01 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar
From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: AOL Mail Problems]
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:34:22 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.183422.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I got this from my friend- I guess we here at AOL had a problem & didn't know
it. I did however get a copy of the arcive of stepping stones & wish to thank
you. However, I do know I haven't gotten all my mail as my dad said some
bounced back to him   Kris
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	pearson@fls.infi.net (pearson@fls.infi.net)
Reply-to:	pearson@fls.infi.net
To:	krissymar@aol.com
Date: 97-04-10 16:30:30 EDT

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To:     All InfiNet Subscribers
From:   InfiNet Customer Support
Subj:   AOL Mail Problems


InfiNet (and all other ISP's) is experiencing difficulties in
delivering mail destined to AOL subscribers.  We have been in
contact with AOL and they admit that their mail servers are
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us no estimated time of repair.  In the meantime, InfiNet has
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destined mail more frequently in hopes of forcing it through.

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 19:49:03 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFWO5-00001Wa; Thu, 10 Apr 97 19:48 PDT
X-Path: gte.net!hinckley
From: "Michael Hinckley" <hinckley@gte.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: the fused art newsletter
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:47:49 -0400
Message-ID: <199704110248.VAA19292@smtp.gte.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello Lee,

We are up in Clearwater- I didn't know about this "Fused Glass" news
letter. What studio is it? Are there any other hot glass studios in the
Tampa Bay area. (We know about Susan Gott and Chuck Boux).

Mike and Debbie



----------
> From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: the fused art newsletter
> Date: Thursday, April 10, 1997 7:57 PM
> 
> Hi Mike S.
> 
> Yes I belong-and just talked to Judy this morning.  They are not "on
> line" They have their studios just a short distance north of Sarasota. 
> Here is there phone #, you can phone them to get on the list.
> 941-792-3078 or fax 941-795-1576  They are teaching a fusing  and
> enamels class at the AGSA June 25-27, Baltimore MD .  They make
> beautiful Fused creations and use Dichroic glass too.  Tell them if you
> call that I posted this, so they don't wonder where a bunch of calls are
> coming from all of a sudden.
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> 
> M. Savad wrote:
> > 
> > does anyone here belong to or know if "the fused art newsletter" is
> > online, i want to make sure i'm on the list, but i don't want to write
> > to them.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Thu Apr 10 20:26:21 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFWxt-000151a; Thu, 10 Apr 97 20:25 PDT
X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: the fused art newsletter
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:21:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr10.192149.0>
References: <<199704110248.VAA19292@smtp.gte.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Michael,

The Studio is "Fused Fantasies"  In Bradenton, Fl. Darlene & Judy.  The
Books that they have written & in print are 'Enchanted Creations',
'Simply Stunning', 'La Fuused Boutique', and 'Glass Magic". They have
home studios, not a store front, but are happy to see people by
appointment.  I have a home studio too, and just sell thru gallery's and
some shows. Have been doing Stained Glass, and just starting to get into
fusing, and possibly lampworking. Maybe someone else on this list knows
of hot glass artists in Tampa Area? And Glass Crafters is right here in
Sarasota.  Plus, Art Glass House over in Cocoa Beach (east coast of
florida)has a lot of hot glass supplies.  


,Michael Hinckley wrote:
> 
> Hello Lee,
> 
> We are up in Clearwater- I didn't know about this "Fused Glass" news
> letter. What studio is it? Are there any other hot glass studios in the Tampa Bay area. (We know about Susan Gott and Chuck Boux).
> 
> Mike and Debbie
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 01:44:25 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFbw7-0000fAa; Fri, 11 Apr 97 01:43 PDT
X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim
From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 321659
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 04:43:51 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr11.04351.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

     TO:  Howard
FROM:  Eleanor 
            (Yegnim@aol.com)

I believe you fill your cutter partially with oil, or kerosine, etc. in order
to make scoring easier and faster.  Instead of dipping in a lubricant before
each score, you simply just make your score.  It does save time since it
excludes the step of dipping before each use.  Have you ever tried it,
Howard?  Why not give it a shot? 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 06:27:55 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFgMO-0000Bqa; Fri, 11 Apr 97 06:27 PDT
X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: the fused art newsletter
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:21:05 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr11.15215.0>
References: <<1997Apr10.678.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike,

I just checked my last newsletter and they only show the phone and fax
number. 
941-747-2041   792-3078   fax # is 941-795-1576
or write to Fused Fantasies 7416 8th Ave.  Bradenton, FL  34209
Hope that helps.
Mary



On Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:09:30 -0400 "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net> writes:
>does anyone here belong to or know if "the fused art newsletter" is
>online, i want to make sure i'm on the list, but i don't want to write
>to them.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>-- 
>Mike's Stained Glass
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>
>New Pages Added:
>
> - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
> - The Creative Process
> - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
> - Picking Out Glass in the Store
>
> - Plus New Photos
> - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
> - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
> - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden
>
> - But That's Not All!!!
> - My Links Page is UP!
> - And Awards Page Too
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 06:51:54 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFgjk-0000jha; Fri, 11 Apr 97 06:51 PDT
X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutters, round 321659
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:50:37 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr11.55037.0>
References: <<199704110157.SAA19498@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote:
> 
> -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> 
> I am under the impression that friction generates heat, and just HOW MUCH
> friction (heat) is generated by a score....IMHO with a modicum of experience
> , it is probably rare to have a person score enough glass or draw a long
> enough score to cause it to "heat" up.
> 
> One of my original questions was:::::::: "WHY DO YOU FILL THE CUTTER WITH
> OIL".....I was not touting not using it, but why filling the cutter.
> 
> enjoy........H
> --
> New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
>     2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard
> 
> E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i think it's more on the line of micro heat. where the axel meats the
shaft, and where the blade touches the surface. not enough to see it,
but it's there. like running your finger across your leg (wearing
pants), your finger will get slightly warm. i guess it lets the wheel
stay sharper longer.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 06:55:35 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFgnO-0000oJa; Fri, 11 Apr 97 06:55 PDT
X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: the fused art newsletter
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:54:25 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr11.55425.0>
References: <<199704110248.VAA19292@smtp.gte.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Michael Hinckley wrote:
> 
> Hello Lee,
> 
> We are up in Clearwater- I didn't know about this "Fused Glass" news
> letter. What studio is it? Are there any other hot glass studios in the
> Tampa Bay area. (We know about Susan Gott and Chuck Boux).
> 
> Mike and Debbie
> 
> ----------
> > From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: Re: the fused art newsletter
> > Date: Thursday, April 10, 1997 7:57 PM
> >
> > Hi Mike S.
> >
> > Yes I belong-and just talked to Judy this morning.  They are not "on
> > line" They have their studios just a short distance north of Sarasota.
> > Here is there phone #, you can phone them to get on the list.
> > 941-792-3078 or fax 941-795-1576  They are teaching a fusing  and
> > enamels class at the AGSA June 25-27, Baltimore MD .  They make
> > beautiful Fused creations and use Dichroic glass too.  Tell them if you
> > call that I posted this, so they don't wonder where a bunch of calls are
> > coming from all of a sudden.
> >
> > Lee Boe
> > Rain-Boe's Creations
> >
> > M. Savad wrote:
> > >
> > > does anyone here belong to or know if "the fused art newsletter" is
> > > online, i want to make sure i'm on the list, but i don't want to write
> > > to them.
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the newsletter has this address:

Fused Fantasies
7416 8th Ave NW
Bradenton, FL 34209
941-747-2041, 792-3078
fax 941-795-1576

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 06:57:52 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFgpV-0000oia; Fri, 11 Apr 97 06:57 PDT
X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: the fused art newsletter
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:56:40 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr11.55640.0>
References: <<1997Apr11.15215.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mary J Austin wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> 
> I just checked my last newsletter and they only show the phone and fax
> number.
> 941-747-2041   792-3078   fax # is 941-795-1576
> or write to Fused Fantasies 7416 8th Ave.  Bradenton, FL  34209
> Hope that helps.
> Mary
> 
> On Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:09:30 -0400 "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net> writes:
> >does anyone here belong to or know if "the fused art newsletter" is
> >online, i want to make sure i'm on the list, but i don't want to write
> >to them.
> >
> >---Mike Savad
> >
> >--
> >Mike's Stained Glass
> >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> >
> >New Pages Added:
> >
> > - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
> > - The Creative Process
> > - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
> > - Picking Out Glass in the Store
> >
> > - Plus New Photos
> > - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
> > - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
> > - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden
> >
> > - But That's Not All!!!
> > - My Links Page is UP!
> > - And Awards Page Too
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


problem is, i'm too lazy to do that. i was hoping they'd be online
somewhere, and i can just re-give my address.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 06:59:59 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFgrW-0000kqa; Fri, 11 Apr 97 06:59 PDT
X-Path: aol.com!Redware1
From: Redware1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Those on AOL Who Requested File
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:59:28 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr11.55928.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn,

I am also on AOL and received my file fine on April 1. It was downloaded
without a problem. 

Diane Zubrick
Applecreek Pottery
----
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 07:13:38 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFh4d-0000haa; Fri, 11 Apr 97 07:13 PDT
X-Path: mail.smu.edu!gshultz
From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Those on AOL Who Requested File
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:12:51 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530500af7404a79bcb@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

For about the last three months, I have been experiencing continuing
problems sending e-mail to AOL users, regardless of whether I included an
attachment.  As often as not, I have had to resend the message two or three
times before it finally got through.  I have noticed that the problem is
particularly bad when I try to send the same message to three or more AOL
users at once.

=Gary


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 08:35:03 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFiLW-0000rYa; Fri, 11 Apr 97 08:34 PDT
X-Path: aol.com!WLester380
From: WLester380@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Those on AOL Who Requested File
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:34:26 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr11.73426.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn -
I am on AOL & received the file OK.  Since the message was so long AOL only
printed part of the file but allowed me to download the rest.
Thanks again,
Bill
----
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 09:53:22 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFjZJ-000010a; Fri, 11 Apr 97 09:52 PDT
X-Path: das.honeywell.com!frank.lerner
From: "Lerner, Frank M (NM75)" <frank.lerner@das.honeywell.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Those on AOL Who Requested File
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:53:09 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr11.4539.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello Bunigans	

Regarding AOL ...  what's been happening recently is the creation of a
new spam mailer that uses AOL as a connection site.  It has essentially
brought AOL to its' knees intermittently. So sometimes your mail will go
through and sometimes it will not, depending on the spammers that are
running.
 
Frank

everything below this line is from a previous message ...

>----------
>From: 	WLester380@aol.com[SMTP:WLester380@aol.com]
>Sent: 	Friday, April 11, 1997 9:34AM
>To: 	glass@bungi.com
>Subject: 	Re: Those on AOL Who Requested File
>
>Dawn -
>I am on AOL & received the file OK.  Since the message was so long AOL only
>printed part of the file but allowed me to download the rest.
>Thanks again,
>Bill
>
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 15:39:23 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wFoyE-0001BHa; Fri, 11 Apr 97 15:39 PDT
X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Call for bids - glass painting
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 22:38:54 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr11.223854.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

We have a local church that needs a window repaired and has three pieces
painted with Christ's face and hands.  We would like to contract the
painting, we can supply pre-cut glass pieces and we will glaze and install.
Interested parties should respond directly to
summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net, or call toll free 1-888-270-0037 and
ask for Mike Peck.  








----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 17:42:08 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Call for bids - glass painting
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:48:32 +0000
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Mike,

You're right in the SGAA's back yard there, aren't you? And Dick 
Millard, one of their mainstays, is one of the best painters around. 
Do you have his number?

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 17:46:44 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: computer generated heraldry
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 00:56:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199704120046.BAA20439@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi All,
I have watched this corespondence, during my "recovery" from 
Chartres. Coat of Arms is something I have been involved with on 
different and various levels. I have designed and made varios Coat of 
Arms of Towns in Europe; in deed I even made  a prize-winning dual 
Coat of Arms for a town in England superimposed  with a town in 
Hungary, that is now taking a pride of place in 2 town halls; I have 
made the insignia  in stained glass of "The Mighty Eight" on their 
50th Anniversery in Britain; I have also made the Swedish National 
Coat of Arms of the Three Crowns . Its a very challenging subject, 
especially if you deliberately chose NOT to paint and fire on glass, 
as I have done. My designs tend to be stylized and individual, yet 
nevertheless  an honest interpretation of the subject. 
Would my input, ideas, interpretations help in any way??
I am slightly hesitant here, not knowing quite how you view the 
subject matter. Having my own style and interpretations.
Let me know....   Can I help.....?
What are you looking for...?
Elisabeth 'n Toby

you wrote:
<< I was wondering if any of the group knew of a computer program which 
 generated coats of arms >>

No but it is a great idea.

You might try some of the large internet, shareware sites.
I would search on items like "software & heraldry" etc.

----
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 20:53:44 1997
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From: Lorley L Oneyear <lorley@netzone.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: cutter
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:51:03 -0700
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970411205100.006ae270@pop.netzone.com>
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	Hello gang,  I use a glass cutter that is shaped like a pencil. Oil is
dropped into the middle of the "pencil". I store my cutter in a plastic
toothbrush holder and place it vertically in a large cup. I noticed last
week that the oil had all flowed out.  Should I store the cutter
horizontally? The "eraser" top has a small screw with a small round rubber
gasket type thing around it. Am I supposed to tighten that down? Would that
have prevented the oil from seeping out?? Also, how far do I untighten the
"eraser" when I am cutting?? No one ever explained the how to's of that
little set screw. Thanks, Lorley in Phoenix

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 20:58:56 1997
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From: "Frank Nero" <nero@ntsource.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:57:14 -0500
Message-ID: <199704120357.DAA25888@ntsource.com>
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please take my name off the list 

			thank you

				fj nero
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 22:03:32 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Lorley L. Oneyear" <lorley@netzone.com>
Subject: Re: cutter
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 22:02:15 -0500
Message-ID: <199704120502.WAA29774@kim.teleport.com>
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

If it is indeed a toyo pencil cutter (note: not used for cutting pencils),
the screw on the top is slightly loosened to allow the oil( of which I do
not do) to flow liberally onto the glass. The screw has a flat side that
allows air to force the oil down the wick in the cutter head and onto the
wheel and finally all over the glass.

Yes the screw on top should be tightened and perhaps, store the cutter with
the wheel up. If you are not using the cutter for a long time, a piece of
cloth or felt can be wrapped around the head to stop the wheel from rusting.

I get a lot of use from my toyo cutters ( I etch  the date on the head)  and
keep two different heads on two different cutters as well as the same
configuration for the pistol grips as well. It is not uncommon to get a few
years from the heads, which includes abuse from my beginning students. The
F/Terrys do not track on the straight edges as well and I have gotten used
to the toyos.

enjoy.........H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 11 22:37:20 1997
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From: Medic <drink@softcom.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: No Messages For A Few Days
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 22:37:35 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr11.153735.0>
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Hi,

Have I been dropped from your mail list?  The reason I ask is that I
have not recieved any messages for several days.  Any help would be
nice.  TIA


David
-- 
"May GOD stand between you and harm in
 all the empty places you must walk."
	Old Egyptian Prayer
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 12 07:53:16 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Call for bids - glass painting
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 14:52:49 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr12.145249.0>
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At 08:48 PM 4/11/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Mike,
>
>You're right in the SGAA's back yard there, aren't you? And Dick 
>Millard, one of their mainstays, is one of the best painters around. 
>Do you have his number?
>
>Albert
>


Albert,  SGAA is only 5 blocks up the street from us........In fact, Katy
and I are always dropping off mail that was delivered to the wrong address.  

I did look in SGAA Magazine and Common Ground for someone local before I
decided to post a note on bungi.  I really need a professional for this one,
which is why I didn't go with someone local.  I'm not familiar with Dick
Millard's work, but would be happy to contact him.  I'll see Katy at SGAA
later this pm and get his number ......... thanks for pointing him out!


Mike

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 12 14:49:15 1997
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From: Carolyn Duncan <chick@cyberg8t.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Toyo cutters
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:48:21 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr11.134821.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have used a Toyo cutter for about 4 yrs. and I found that if you
loosen the phillips screw and rotate the head 180 degrees then tighten
the screw again the head becomes fixed.  I have found that this gives me
better control.  For some reason I am unable to access the web page and
most the time my messages have the old fatal error.  I'm not with aol. 
Any ideas.  I enjoy the discussion on all of the glass areas.  I am just
begining to do lamp work to create beads.  My co-ordination is not the
best yet.  Carolyn
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 12 15:54:44 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Call for bids - glass painting
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 18:54:06 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr12.14546.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Have you heard of "Creative Art Glass Enterprise"?  The do standard glass
painting as well as specialized work.  Their brochures look quite impressive.
 You may contact them at l-800-255-2068 or call collect (804)525-6424 in
Virginia.  Good Luck!
Eleanor (YEGNIM@aol.com)

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 13 06:00:17 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Looking for book-Elegant Lamps Volume 2
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 08:55:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr13.45534.0>
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Hi all,

Does anyone have a copy of "Elegant Lamps" Volume 2 they would like to
part with??  I have Vol 1, and 3, but can't find Vol 2.  It is still in
print.  The lamp designs are by Brian McMillan and Lucinda Doran,
Published by Walrus Publications in Canada.  My local glass shop is out
and did not order more, maybe someone has a used one they could send me
at a reasonable price?  I am in the middle of making "Byron" the
beautiful lamp on the cover of Vol. 1

Thanks for looking in your librarys-

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 13 07:22:24 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Looking for book-Elegant Lamps Volume 2/on line used books s
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 10:26:56 +0000
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LeeStat7 asked: 

> Does anyone have a copy of "Elegant Lamps" Volume 2 they would like
> to

I don't, but this reminded me of a great resource I was pointed to 
recently:

Powell's On Line Used Bookstore:

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/mk-search.pl

I'm afraid they don't have either volume of ELEGANT LAMPS today, but I
made a quick search for stained glass and found 143 titles.

I just ordered five books from them on mosaics, too, at great prices!

There are other used bookstores on line, too. I don't have the URLs 
handy.

I hope this is helpful to someone.
M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails. (Unknown)

 
                                              |\                ( )
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 13 08:12:42 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: stepping stone forms
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:12:06 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr13.7126.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well I think I may have found a  cheaper source for hex and circular stepping
stone forms. The place is about an hour from my home & I am making a trip
there tommorow morning. The price is $14, & 12, respectively(at retail). I
will let you all know what I find and wether they are the same as Tiff
Garden, if they will sell whosale, and if they do mail order(if not I may be
able to ship some out since even with shipping tjey are still less expensive.
I searched for two days calling concrete places, lawn & gerden centers, etc.
This place is a hardware store that caters to contractors down in Richmond.
Wish me luck!!!!  Krissy
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 13 08:26:59 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: stepping stone forms
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:26:21 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr13.72621.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well I think I may have found a  cheaper source for hex and circular stepping
stone forms. The place is about an hour from my home & I am making a trip
there tommorow morning. The price is $14, & 12, respectively(at retail). I
will let you all know what I find and wether they are the same as Tiff
Garden, if they will sell whosale, and if they do mail order(if not I may be
able to ship some out since even with shipping tjey are still less expensive.
I searched for two days calling concrete places, lawn & gerden centers, etc.
This place is a hardware store that caters to contractors down in Richmond.
Wish me luck!!!!  Krissy
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 13 08:45:07 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Looking for book-Elegant Lamps Volume 2
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:44:28 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr13.74428.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

If you are not in too much of a hurry I may be able to order you one, I have
a wholesale catalog or better yet, you can order it retail from Meredith
Stained Glass.
You can call them at (800) 966-6667 and mention that Eleanor from Eureka
Glass sent you.  It is listed in their catalog, so with luck, they may still
have it.
Good Luck!
Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com)

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 13 09:29:30 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: stepping stone forms
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:34:13 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

Good luck, Krissy and god bless you.

M.-J.

Krissy wrote:

> Well I think I may have found a  cheaper source for hex and circular
> stepping stone forms. <snip> Wish me luck!!!!  Krissy
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 13 14:52:56 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:52:28 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr13.135228.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well, here I am picking your brains again. I would really like to know what
you all would consider your "perfect store" for stained glass. Have any ideas
or visions? Any thing you have really disliked about a store you have been
in? And no, we can not give all the glass away for free!  :) 
Anything you would like to see? Let me know, I am looking for ideas &
insights as I set my business plan in motion.   Thanking you in
advance...............Kristina
PS you can post to Bungi or email me at krissymar@aol.com    
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 13 16:12:21 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 19:10:40 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr13.151040.0>
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Precedence: bulk

KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Well, here I am picking your brains again. I would really like to know what
> you all would consider your "perfect store" for stained glass. Have any ideas
> or visions? Any thing you have really disliked about a store you have been
> in? And no, we can not give all the glass away for free!  :)
> Anything you would like to see? Let me know, I am looking for ideas &
> insights as I set my business plan in motion.   Thanking you in
> advance...............Kristina
> PS you can post to Bungi or email me at krissymar@aol.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i like it to have everything i'd need, in maybe a few different flavors.
like my old store only sold one kind of patina, and i always wanted to
try the other's but he never had it. 

a good color selection, colors i've always wanted (that they make, not
the wishfull ones) would be: colored mirror, like red, orange, yellow,
etc. a good variety of irridescents, like i've only seen uroboros irr.,
once i'd love to see more. i've also heard youg. also makes some, but i
never saw it. a good selection of art glass, ripple, fipple, fibroid,
etc.  

filligree at a good price. the store i have to go to now sells their
filligree at one set price 45 cents; which is a good price for the
larger stuff like dragonflies, but for little butterflies it's a little
pricey.

scrap for a good price always atracts me. my old store sold it at 50
cents a pound, a good price, but a poor selection, generally 'common'
glass. $2.00 a pound, was at another store, but their was antique and
art glass mixed in. and the current store, is also at about $2.00 a
pound but i don't get to select each piece, their all pre-boxed, though
still a good selection; but i would have to buy it $15.00 at a time.

a wide variety of books, and always keeping up with the new ones. my old
store, i usaully had to ask for it. i personally like thumbing through
it before i buy. it's nice to be able to get a new book every so often.

that stained glass news, i wish there was a store closer to me that had
it. 

intresting things, like dalle glass, or odd gems, etc.

the store near me runs seperate workshops, like for xmas season, you can
rent out some time to work on your projects so there are'nt any prying
eyes. demonstrations on new tools, and free workshops of how to use
them. this is, anyway, what they do, most of the stuff i already know so
i never been to them.

they also have a garage sale every so often. where they sell the odd
glass no-one bought, odd shaped bevels, etc. i usaully go to the store
just for that. 

a feature i've always liked is being able to buy just a section of
glass. like if i need a 8x12 of red, and the smallest sheet was 18x24,
they'd cut it up sell you what you needed, and you never felt as if you
had to buy the whole thing.

i'm sure i'll probably add to this, but that's all i can think of now...


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 13 18:08:00 1997
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From: sford@nettally.com (Steven Ford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:08:25 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr13.17825.0>
References: <<199704040101.UAA10714@gate.usaor.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: nettally.com
Precedence: bulk

Mary Ann Dulemba wrote:
> 
> Please include me in the stepping stones/mosaics info also.  Thank you.
> 
> ----------
> > From: karenro <karenro@newpig3.newpig.com>
> > To: 'glass@bungi.com'
> > Subject: RE: Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
> > Date: Wednesday, April 02, 1997 7:03 AM
> >
> >
> > Dawn,
> >
> >  I to would be interested in recieving the stepping stones/mosaics
> >  info from the archives.Thank you for sharing.
> >
> > Karen Roberts
> > >karenro@newpig.com
> > >
> > >Charles, Diane, Mary, Tomi, Meg, Mary Archibald, Carol, Scott, and
> > >Jane,
> > >
> > >First of all, I apologize for posting this to the entire group, but I
> > >wan=
> > >t to make sure I do not inadvertently leave someone out who
> > >corresponded =
> > >with me regarding my file on stepping stones and mosaics.
> > >
> > >I have sent each of you listed above an ASCII text file of all the
> > >notes =
> > >on stepping stones and mosaics that I pulled off of the archives.  This
> > >=
> > >includes all archives on the site (from inception of Bungi through the
> > >=
> > >end of February, 1997--March's were not posted yet).  If you for some
> > >rea=
> > >son do not get my message, please let me know.
> > >
> > >Darlene and M.J., will you please send me your e-mail addresses and I
> > >wil=
> > >l send it to you also?  If there is anyone else who requested it and I
> > >=
> > >overlooked their request, please be sure to let me know.
> > >
> > >Dawn
> > >
> > >----
> > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


Thanks for your time in compiling this info.  I'd really appreciate a
copy.
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 13 20:31:35 1997
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From: Redware1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:31:06 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr13.19316.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am a beginner in stained glass, but not in the art field ( I am a potter).
I finally found a store that has a good selection of glass in square feet
sections that I can look through easily.  This owner has more of the same
glass in the larger sheets if needed. He has a large variety of different
glass manufacturers and they are all marked on the sheet along with the
number and the price.

The big thing is that he leaves me alone to look through the smaller sheets
and I can pull them out of the slots and look at them.  I have gone into
several stores where there is a single owner and they always want to stand
there and talk while I look through the glass. I have learned so much being
able to browse and get a feel for the glass.  

Diane Zubrick
Redware Pottery


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From owner-glass Sun Apr 13 21:35:40 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: (Fwd) Re: PLEASE HELP FORWARD TO OTHER LISTS
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:40:16 +0000
Message-ID: <199704140435.AAA14462@brickell.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Fellow Bungians,

I forward this at the request of the Appalachian Center for the 
Arts, which is experiencing serious funding problems. I checked 
to be sure that they do workshops in glass before honoring 
their request to forward this to the arts discussions groups I belong 
to.

I hope this is an appropriate post. It feels right to me to let 
anyone who is concerned with art and art education know that a
valuable resource is endangered.

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:          Vince Pitelka <vpitelka@hub.infoave.net>
Subject:       Re: PLEASE HELP FORWARD TO OTHER LISTS

THE APPALACHIAN CENTER FOR CRAFTS NEEDS YOUR HELP.  The future of our
facility and programs is seriously threatened, and we may disappear
altogether unless we can influence the state legislature to set up
alternate funding for our programs.  Please read the following and
write to the listed addresses in support of the Appalachian Center for
Crafts.  We greatly appreciate any help you are able to give us right
now.  Time is of the essence, so please act quickly on this.  Feel
free to email me with any questions or suggestions.  

SO WHAT'S THIS ALL ABOUT?
Due to recent funding cuts at Tennessee Technological University, the
future of the Appalachian Center for Crafts has been placed in serious
jeopardy. It is doubly sad that this should happen now, as we
currently have the largest enrollments in the 17-year history of the
facility.  We are one of the premier academic craft-studio programs in
the country, committed to professional fine craft education and the
ongoing evolution of fine craft media.  The Center was built in 1979
with the largest federal grants ever allocated for the fine crafts,
and was intended to serve the people of Tennessee and the Nation.  If
this facility closes, it will be a serious loss to the future of fine
craft.  

Some very positive things have happened since this crisis began almost
a year ago.  We have managed to maintain our enrollment despite
forcasts of doom by the Tennessee Tech administration.  We have formed
FACCT, The Friends of the Appalachian Center for Crafts, a nonprofit
organization devoted to the support and preservation of programs at
the Craft Center. Email me if you would like to receive membership
information.  FACCT is currently aggressively lobbying state politics,
and is beginning to organize fundraising efforts.

A little bit about the Center: The Appalachian Center for Crafts is
part of the Art Department at Tennessee Technological University, and
is located sixty miles east of Nashville in central Tennessee, on a
wilderness tract overlooking Center Hill Lake.  The Center is one of
the finest facilities in the country devoted entirely to professional
fine craft education, with studio concentrations in clay, glass, wood,
fibers, and metals. We offer the BFA degree, one-year and two-year
professional craft certificates, portfolio development opportunities,
and an extensive summer workshop program.  The facility includes sales
and exhibition galleries, cafe, supply store, audiovisual facilities,
conference rooms, and dormitory apartments.  The ceramics facility
includes more than 10,000 square feet of studio space, with a large
roofed kiln area outside.  Kilns include standard gas and electric,
wood, salt, soda, sagger, and raku, plus facilities for sawdust and
bonfire processes. 

The state of Tennessee is experiencing a budget crunch, and the Craft
Center could become a victim.  Fine craft is alive and well in the
Mid-South region, and Kentucky and North Carolina have recognized that
the fine crafts and cultural tourism have a very significant and
growing economic impact. Tennessee is missing the boat, and the
precarious situation at the Appalachian Center for Crafts is hard
evidence.  

You can help.  IT IS ESPECIALLY CRITICAL THAT WE INFLUENCE THE
GOVERNOR AND THE STATE LEGISLATURE NOW, AS THEY ARE MAKING THEIR
BUDGET DECISIONS.  This budget session could make or break us.  
Please send letters to the addresses below and voice your support for
the Craft Center and the importance of fine craft in America.  If you
are within Tennessee, write to your own legislators as well.  If you
are outside of Tennessee, please affirm that the Appalachian Center
for Crafts is known throughout the nation, and attracts lots of
positive attention and TOURIST DOLLARS to the state of Tennessee.  

Governor Don Sundquist, Tennessee State Capitol, Nashville, TN 37243
615/741-2001, dsundquist@mail.state.tn.us

Dr. Charles Smith, Chancellor, Tenn. Board of Regents, 1415
Murfreesboro Rd. Nashville, TN 37217, 615/366-4400

Lt. Governor John Wilder, #1 Legislative Plaza, Nashville, TN 37243 

State Rep. Jere Hargrove, 310 E. Broad St., Cookeville, TN 38501
615/526-2223

Jimmy Naifeh, Speaker of the House, #19 Legislative Plaza, Nashville,
TN 37243

Dr. Angelo Volpe, President, Tennessee Tech. Univ., Cookeville, TN
38505 615/372-3241

Feel free to email me if you have any questions or comments.  And
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for your efforts in our
behalf. - Vince

Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Phone - home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801
Appalachian Center for Crafts
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 03:49:52 1997
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From: Stephanie Conover <s.s.conover@larc.nasa.gov>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Looking for book-Elegant Lamps Volume 2
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 06:49:21 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970414064910.1a9f6f40@express.larc.nasa.gov>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi lee, Don't have volume 2 of elegant lamps, but I am getting ready to make
the Byron for my first lamp project.  How did you find it?  It looks a bit
intimidating to a new lampmaker!!
S. C.
>Does anyone have a copy of "Elegant Lamps" Volume 2 they would like to
>part with??  I have Vol 1, and 3, but can't find Vol 2.  It is still in
>print.  The lamp designs are by Brian McMillan and Lucinda Doran,
>Published by Walrus Publications in Canada.  My local glass shop is out
>and did not order more, maybe someone has a used one they could send me
>at a reasonable price?  I am in the middle of making "Byron" the
>beautiful lamp on the cover of Vol. 1
>Lee Boe
>Rain-Boe's Creations
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 07:00:52 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:03:56 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970414090356.006886b0@busprod.com>
References: <<1997Apr13.135228.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>Well, here I am picking your brains again. I would really like to know what
>you all would consider your "perfect store" for stained glass... 

I think something I would greatly appreciate would be clearly marked prices
in regards to glass. The store I frequent now sells glass by the pound.
They have a price list they consult when weighing that has the different
types and colors...only problem is it's not posted anywhere! I realize
prices change, but I'd really like to, at least, have an estimate of what
the glass might cost me before I get my heart set on it.

The other "wish" would be for a large studio area to hold classes!
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 07:29:56 1997
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From: melinton@alison.sbc.edu
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:22:28 -0400
Message-ID: <l03020700af77eb5743e9@[198.28.38.107]>
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Precedence: bulk

I'd like to see unusual glass--stuff you can't get mail order--from smaller
glass makers. One day classes would be very attractive. It would be cool to
have "sample cutters" you could try before buying.
--Liz

You only need two things in life;
WD-40 to make things go faster & duct tape to make them stop.


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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 09:42:39 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Byron Lamp
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:38:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr14.83831.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970414064910.1a9f6f40@express.larc.nasa.gov>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Stephanie,

It is not too hard, follow the directions in the book, and in addition,
before starting to foil, stack each shape of glass components to make
sure they are all identical. If not grind them till they are. And double
check the bevels.  The ones I get from Glass Crafters are all identical
in size, but not all bevels are so exact.  Use either the 'scoreboard'
or Morton system to make sure your cuts are as close as possible.  I
quote the beveling instructions for panel lamps that Don answered Jack
Kuhn posted March 19th,at the end of this post.  You will find the
slight bevel on the sides that join the panels  will be helpful. Also
the Lamp positioner from Emerald Rainbow or the 'Lamp Clamp' I find
helpful.  I am just starting to foil this project (it is for me, so it
gets put aside when I have customer orders) 

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations 


Stephanie Conover wrote:
> 
> Hi lee, Don't have volume 2 of elegant lamps, but I am getting ready to make
> the Byron for my first lamp project.  How did you find it?  It looks a bit
> intimidating to a new lampmaker!!
> S. C.

I should have said to grind the angle to coincide with the number of
sides,as 45 for 4 sides, 22and 1/2 for 8 , 11 and 1/4 for 12 (degrees
that is) i hope i didn't confuse you with my poor descriptions.Don

On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:22:11 EST eldondo1@juno.com writes:
>You will have a wide seam but try quik set solder and it should help 
>with
>at least a nice rounded bead ,but larger than you would like. Next 
>time
>bevel your panels on the inside 45degrees and the outside seam will be
>much smaller .Don 
>On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:48:11 -0500 Wire Rat <wirerat@sprintmail.com>
>writes:
>>Could someone please help.I am constructing my first panel lamp and 
>>have
>>a problem.
>>Although the butt joints of the panels match each other nice and 
>>tight,I
>>am having trouble getting a good solder joint in the gaps as the 
>>panels
>>butt each other at an angle.I am using a lot of solder and I don't 
>>think
>>that I will be able to acquire a nice finish bead.TIA
>>-- 
>>Jack Kuhn
>>wirerat@sprintmail.com
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 09:51:09 1997
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 12:50:37 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr14.85037.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I  have a catalogue which sells glass by the pound....and one that sells it
by size....
I am puzzled by the pound method....why is it sold this way....I haven't
ordered from the pounders as I am not sure how much to order.... any help
from the experienced ones....
thanks
maureen
mosfunland@aol.com
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 10:04:56 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 97 10:55:37 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr14.175537.0>
References: <<1997Apr13.17825.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

To Steve Ford,

I would be glad to send you a copy of the file if you would please send
me your e-mail address.

Dawn
dawnm@mail.fidnet.com			

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 10:46:14 1997
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From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:41:22 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704141741.NAA19104@vixa.voyager.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

>I  have a catalogue which sells glass by the pound....and one that sells it
>by size....
>I am puzzled by the pound method....why is it sold this way....I haven't
>ordered from the pounders as I am not sure how much to order.... any help
>from the experienced ones....

The reason you find some glasses sold by the pound is because this is the
way that the some glass manufacturers sell it.  The manufacturers that
immediately come to mind are Bullseye and Chicago Art Glass.  For the
purpose of our catalog, we have converted the glass to approximate sizes and
sell it by the measurements instead to help lessen confusion.

I hope that this helps clear up some of the confusion.

Stephanie
Delphi Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 13:12:52 1997
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From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:16:48 -0500
Message-ID: <199704142011.PAA01280@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



----------
> I am puzzled by the pound method....why is it sold this way....

Generally handcast glass which is most often single rolled,  will not be as
uniform in thickness as the mass produced product such as Spectrum or
Kokomo.  Pricing by the pound more accurately reflects the amount of
material in each sheet of this type of glass. If you want the really cool
glass, buy the stuff  thats sold by the pound. ;-)   A pound of glass is
usually less then a sq. ft.


Len
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 14:18:41 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:16:59 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr14.131659.0>
References: <<1997Apr14.85037.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mosfunland@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I  have a catalogue which sells glass by the pound....and one that sells it
> by size....
> I am puzzled by the pound method....why is it sold this way....I haven't
> ordered from the pounders as I am not sure how much to order.... any help
> from the experienced ones....
> thanks
> maureen
> mosfunland@aol.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it might have something to do with thickness, and maybe materials. like
drapery glass, has like twice the amount of glass in it, then a normal
sheet. mainly the art glass is sold that way, i guess it's just easier
for that company.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 16:32:31 1997
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From: cubacigrco@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Carpal Tunnel Syndrome
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 10:59:01 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr13.18591.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have had friends and heard many more success stories about the use of
vitamin B6 in frequent doses for the relief of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. 
Someone even avoided surgery by using B6 for about two weeks. I'm sure
someone at your local natural food store would be able to give more
specifics as to doses as it depends on your weight, severity of problem,
etc.

Michele
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 18:09:24 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: computer generated heraldry
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:08:54 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr14.17854.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-04-11 21:07:29 EDT, you write:

<< Its a very challenging subject, 
 especially if you deliberately chose NOT to paint and fire on glass,  >>

So many projects, so little time.

I would be interested in your techniques and strategy.

Do you implement the various heraldic devices using glass only?  
For example, we have an elephant and a lion's head on our coat of arms.
 It would seem problematical to do a small coat of arms without painting.

For a large project, how do you avoid large areas of plain glass, coupled
with smaller more intense areas containing various devices.
 
Congratulations on your awards, I'll bet your work in this area is
impressive.



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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 18:10:02 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:09:04 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr14.1794.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-04-13 17:54:03 EDT, you write:

<< Well, here I am picking your brains again. I would really like to know
what
 you all would consider your "perfect store" for stained glass. Have any
ideas
 or visions? Any thing you have really disliked about a store you have been
 in? And no, we can not give all the glass away for free!  :)  >>

I think a successful store should offer lots of workshops,
events and lessons at a reasonable cost.  These kind of events
create new customers and keep existing customers interested.
Look at the interest in mosaic and pavers over the last 2 years.

While cost of inventory is a business concern, good selection
across color and price is important.  Price should be clearly
marked or communicated.

Avoid ripping off your customers, we have several stores in
our area which charge outrageous prices for common 
items, eg $11 sq ft for cathedral glass, $9 for a 1 lb roll
of solder.   I've found I can't patronize these stores  because 
their prices are so outrageous.  If I were writing  a business 
plan, I would price around 10% to 20%  over the large mail 
order houses.

(As a consumer,  I understand some of the challenges  with
be a stained glass retailer so I willing to pay more for retail 
service and advice, on the other hand, I won't pay unreasonable
prices.)

 










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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 18:41:38 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:41:03 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr14.17413.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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In a message dated 97-04-14 21:05:02 EDT, you write:

<< I  have a catalogue which sells glass by the pound....and one that sells
it
 by size....
 I am puzzled by the pound method....why is it sold this way....I haven't
 ordered from the pounders as I am not sure how much to order.. >>

I did some elaborate price comparison between Whitemore-Durgin
and Delphi.  Delphi sells by size, W-D by the pound.  I converted
pounds to square feet to get a price per square foot.  Also converting
Delphi sheets to price per sq foot.

In any case, a pound of glass is around .67 or 2/3s of a square foot.

Good Luck!



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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 19:18:12 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:17:41 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr14.181741.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-04-14 21:05:02 EDT, you write:

<< I  have a catalogue which sells glass by the pound....and one that sells
it
 by size....
 I am puzzled by the pound method....why is it sold this way....I haven't
 ordered from the pounders as I am not sure how much to order.. >>

I did some elaborate price comparison between Whitemore-Durgin
and Delphi.  Delphi sells by size, W-D by the pound.  I converted
pounds to square feet to get a price per square foot.  Also converting
Delphi sheets to price per sq foot.

In any case, a pound of glass is around .67 or 2/3s of a square foot.

Good Luck!



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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 20:07:18 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:06:06 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr14.2266.0>
References: <<1997Apr13.135228.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> ...would consider your "perfect store" for stained glass. 

The perfect store:

1. All the help would be knowledgeable about the craft and generous with
their knowledge.
2. There would be a wide assortment of glass, tools, and accessories.
3. Tools would all be try before you buy.
4. There would be lots of options of classes for length and skill level.
5. It would be clean and organized and merchandise easily seen.
6. The customers would be treated like valued patrons, not irritants
that are breaking up your day.

Does this list sound really specific? Well, I shopped for a year at the
local stained glass store. It was a real challange to "support your
local retailer." The store was truly dirty and very disorganized. The
staff ranged from helpful to downright surly. But they had a nice
selection of glass and it was close to work so I could run over during
lunch. In a story way too long and boring for this forum, I vowed to
never spend another penny in the store. (This is after spending over a
$1000 myself and bringing in another 4-5 people who spent close to
that.) At about that time, I found Warner-Crivellaro and I left hell and
landed in heaven. W-C answers all the above criteria except the classes.
Instead, they have free demos every Saturday where every question you
come up with is answered. I don't know how far away from Allentown, PA
you are, but it would be worth a trip for a look-see.

Good luck.
Hilary
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 14 20:46:33 1997
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:45:55 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr14.194555.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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.....and the perfect stained glass store always seems to have something that
catches my significant others attention, while I indulge myself...our treks
up the turnpike to Warner-Criv are worth every minute of travel.  I agree
with Hilary on all the points she made.
Maureen
mosfunland@aol.com
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 04:28:15 1997
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From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:27:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.32752.0>
References: <<1997Apr14.2266.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Enchanted Glass
Precedence: bulk

Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> 
> > ...would consider your "perfect store" for stained glass.
> 
>
> 
> Does this list sound really specific? Well, I shopped for a year at the
> local stained glass store. It was a real challange to "support your
> local retailer."  I vowed to > never spend another penny in the store.  At about that time, I found Warner-Crivellaro and I left hell and
> landed in heaven. W-C answers all the above criteria except the classes.
> Instead, they have free demos every Saturday where every question you
> come up with is answered. I don't know how far away from Allentown, PA
> you are, but it would be worth a trip for a look-see.
> 

Two comments... 
Dont gouge your customers. When I started in working with glass I
blindly bought from the one store I knew existed in my area. Several
months later I found other stores and found out much to my chagrin that
I had been an idiot for paying 9 dollars a pound for solder(50/50) and
10 dollars a "hobby sheet" (theirs was smaller than a square foot) for
water glass. Being the friendly person that I am, I stopped in and told
the proprietor during a Saturday afternoon when the store was full.  I
also gave out printed directions to the other stores in the area.  I
have a sense of fair play that if I feel is violated, I will not
patronize a store or craftsperson.
Secondly
Could you give me a number or address for Warner-Crivellaro?  It is a
hike for me, but for Sand G's I might give it a try this summer.
thanks
crzkt
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 05:24:08 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:23:42 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.42342.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Maureen,
Are you anywhere near Philadelphia?  I am right outside Phila. and was
wondering if I had a fellow Bungian as a neighbor.
Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com)
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 05:29:58 1997
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From: StndGlass1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:29:23 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.42923.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

To clarify a little bit, we sell our glass (unless full sheets) by the pound
as well.  In the long run it saves you money, and us a lot of time.  When
corners break off, or a piece breaks in shipment and ends up an odd shape, we
would have to spend a good deal of time doing geometry if we sold by the sf.
 When we sell by the pound, you are only paying for what you are getting, no
more no less, every time.  It varies greatly from manufacturer to
manufacturer, but a 1.5 pounds of glass is usually equal to about 1 sf.

Jenna Meredith
Meredith Stained Glass
www.meredithglass.com

In a message dated 97-04-14 22:46:54 EDT, you write:

<< Generally handcast glass which is most often single rolled,  will not be
as
 uniform in thickness as the mass produced product such as Spectrum or
 Kokomo.  Pricing by the pound more accurately reflects the amount of
 material in each sheet of this type of glass. If you want the really cool
 glass, buy the stuff  thats sold by the pound. ;-)   A pound of glass is
 usually less then a sq. ft. >>

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 06:03:43 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: foiling machines
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:03:12 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.5312.0>
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I plan to buy a foiling machine shortly.  Problem is, I don't know whether to
buy one that crimps or not.  I like the idea of crimping to save time,
however, what about those hard to crimp spots on many pieces?  Can I adjust
the machine so that it will not crimp certain sections of pieces?  I really
like the idea of the machine centering the foil on the piece.  What about the
ones that automatically peel off the backing paper?  Any input would be
appreciated since this is an investment of well over $20 or even over $30.  I
just want the right one and will pay extra as I do so much glass, I know I
will get my money's worth out of the right machine.
Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com)
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 06:16:34 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: foiling machines
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:16:32 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970415091630.006b26f4@mail.bright.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 09:03 AM 4/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I plan to buy a foiling machine shortly.  Problem is, I don't know whether to
>buy one that crimps or not.  I like the idea of crimping to save time,
>however, what about those hard to crimp spots on many pieces?  Can I adjust
>the machine so that it will not crimp certain sections of pieces?  I really
>like the idea of the machine centering the foil on the piece.  What about the
>ones that automatically peel off the backing paper?  Any input would be
>appreciated since this is an investment of well over $20 or even over $30.  I
>just want the right one and will pay extra as I do so much glass, I know I
>will get my money's worth out of the right machine.

I use the Inland Edgemaster because it is cheaper than the other brand.
This one does separate the backing from the foil, and crimps to a degree.
I still have to go over the edges and burnish them down.  I've found on
tight curves and stuff that I don't want crimped, I can pull the glass away
from the foiler and do that by hand, then reposition it on the foiler and
continue on.  I REALLY like my foiler, but I have sold the same foiler to
students and they have never gotten the hang of it, so it does take some
adjusting and practice.  My advice to you is DO NOT MOUNT it on your main
work table.  I used some scrap lumber about 8"x8" and now I can move mine
anywhere I want on my worktable.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran

Send Bunginian Glass Atlas Patterns to
		Garden of Glass
		501 N. Madriver St.
		Bellefontaine, OH  43311

	or email joyce@mail.bright.net

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 07:56:04 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:54:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.65427.0>
References: <<1997Apr14.1794.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-04-13 17:54:03 EDT, you write:
> 
> << Well, here I am picking your brains again. I would really like to know
> what
>  you all would consider your "perfect store" for stained glass. Have any
> ideas
>  or visions? Any thing you have really disliked about a store you have been
>  in? And no, we can not give all the glass away for free!  :)  >>
> 
> I think a successful store should offer lots of workshops,
> events and lessons at a reasonable cost.  These kind of events
> create new customers and keep existing customers interested.
> Look at the interest in mosaic and pavers over the last 2 years.
> 
> While cost of inventory is a business concern, good selection
> across color and price is important.  Price should be clearly
> marked or communicated.
> 
> Avoid ripping off your customers, we have several stores in
> our area which charge outrageous prices for common
> items, eg $11 sq ft for cathedral glass, $9 for a 1 lb roll
> of solder.   I've found I can't patronize these stores  because
> their prices are so outrageous.  If I were writing  a business
> plan, I would price around 10% to 20%  over the large mail
> order houses.
> 
> (As a consumer,  I understand some of the challenges  with
> be a stained glass retailer so I willing to pay more for retail
> service and advice, on the other hand, I won't pay unreasonable
> prices.)
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


that sounds alot like the prices they charge at pearl paint (i'm not
sure how wide spread the store is). spectrum glass, 8x12 white plain
solid, $10.00. solder around the same price. color choice is lousy.
though once they messed up and put their prices by mistake. so i got 3
rolls of solder $2.00 per roll (wish i bought more), foil for 1.00, and
patina for a 1.00. which is the only reason i walk through that isle,
for price mess ups like that... :)


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 08:33:08 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: cost of glass... was perfect s/g store
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:31:43 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <199704151531.KAA18033@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

    Hi Bugians < (official?)

I have been following with interest the discussion about *stores*  and I'd
like to add my 0.02 worth

When I was a partner in a store front business we were primarily a
commission studio with a retail area and I guess we did not cater to walk in
sales which in most cases were a time consuming distraction. Profit was far
greater building panels then selling glass cutters. Sure it wasn't fancey
and probably a little dirty but the prices were good and we allowed
customers to freely browse our glass inventory which was more extensive then
most. If people were put off there was always the overpriced retailer in the
mall, the choice was theirs. 

These are some of my observations on the effects of inflated glass pricing
at the retail level. 

Having judged county fair glass exhibits I had the pleasure to see some very
finely crafted glass work. In one case I awarded the blue to a perfectly
contructed peony shade.  The downside of the story is that it was built of
the most common glasses that you could imagine, here is a woman that
undoubtably spent many many hours building this lamp with run of the mill
Spectrum because thats what she could afford and/or find available. I've run
in to this situation a number of times and I think it's a shame.  I asked
her about it and she said that She Was Told the other glass was too hard to
work with I told her that with her ability she could master cutting any glass.

This leads me to my second point. 

 I've always been fortunate to have access to the inventories of big studios
or a wholesale account and felt that the cost of glass and waste was only a
small factor in my cost of product. So I just cut the stuff up with abandon
and sometimes would turn large pieces into scrap just to get at a section
that was just right. When your paying on the average a couple of dollars a
sq. ft. who cares.

If you walk in to your FLGR and they price a piece of glass like it was a
semi-precious gem well of course in order to protect your investment you
think you need a cutting system and a grinding system and a breaking system
and all the other thing-a-ma-jigs. So here you are spending money on stuff
instead of glass. I really feel that the most valuable asset one can have is
a big glass inventory.  Well I guess it's just business as usual but I think
overpriced glass really stifles the creative effort. 

Thanks for tolerating my ranting

Len 

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 09:34:32 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
Subject: Re: cost of glass...
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 09:33:31 -0500
Message-ID: <199704151634.JAA20191@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

I concur........My beginning student learn by doing a small panel lamp with
a generous allowance for mistakes. We use spectrum for the first one.

Most students aspire to do a "Tiffany" and seem to find mine worthy of
emulating. The cost of handmade art glass is only twice as much as the
"cheap stuff".....6 asst sq/ft spectrum....around $50
                  6 asst sq/ft handmades..........$100

The labor is about the same for either...why not go "good". You learn by
doing, so cut some handmades, start with easier cuts first.

Short case in point....had a student who was meticulous....and painfully
frugal..scrounged up what ever glass he could find that was cheaper than
cheap or free, did impeccable work and had very poor looking lamps.
He mused why my students work looked SO MUCH BETTER, even if the
craftsmanship was not good (it is in the choice of glass). He would vow to
let me pick the glass with no set price and just pay it....too many years of
frugality (byb he was quite wealthy) and ALWAYS chickened out when the time
came to pay up....and went back to routine.

I do not recommend students try to cut panel lamps from handmade as it is
difficult to cut 6 to 10 inch straight passes on both sides from art glass.

I do not recommend using machine made for "art" lamps.

enjoy.............H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 10:24:07 1997
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From: Redware1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: butterfly mold
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:23:41 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.92341.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I received my 24" butterfly mold for a stepping stone today.  I was impressed
that it came with a 2 sided page of instructions and suggestions.  Also has a
color sheet of finished butterfly stones.

They suggest using wire and bar inside the concrete.  Hopefully will be
pouring one in a few weeks.

Has anyone on the list made one yet?  Any suggestions?

Diane Zubrick
Applecreek Pottery
Centerville, Ohio
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 10:45:12 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHCHW-0000yaa; Tue, 15 Apr 97 10:44 PDT
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas 
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:42:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.94220.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Glass Atlas

Joyce,

Here is my contribution to the Glass Atlas - Dreamcatcher. I hope some 
other novices in the group will not find it too primative. It is my first 
panel of any size and my first attempt a designing. I have done stained 
glass only for several months and fell in love with clear waterglass and 
wanted a way to use it. The main circle of the design is computer generated 
using Canvas on the Mac and the feathers were Xeroxed from some sheets from 
Tandy Leather. The whole thing is about 12 inches across. I learned on this 
one to design better for lead width. There's a sliver of clear glass near 
the feathers that made a blob of soulder, partly because of my poor fitting 
techniques and partly because of the design. Still learning and loving it.

Linda Campbell

[[ PATTERN.JPG : 4375 in WINMAIL.DAT ]][[ ORANGE~1.JPG : 4376 in WINMAIL.DAT ]]

Send your patterns to joyce@mail.bright.net  Or snail mail
	Garden of Glass
	501 N. Madriver St.
	Bellefontaine, OH  43311




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M`````````/_______[^_OP```````````````````````````````````']_
M?____________P!_?[^_OP!_?P````````````#__[^_OP#__P``````````
M``!_?[^_OP!_?P```/_______[^_OP``````````````````````````````
M`````']_?____________P!_?P#__[^_OP#__[^_OP#__[^_OP#__[^_OP#_
M_[^_OP#__[^_OP#__P!_?P```/_______[^_OP``````````````````````
M`````````````']_?________________P!_?P#__[^_OP!_?P!_?P!_?P!_
M?P!_?P!_?P!_?P!_?P#__P!_?P```/___________[^_OP``````````````
M`````````````````````']_?____________________P!_?P#__P```/__
M_____________________P!_?[^_OP```/_______________[^_OP``````
M`````````````````````````````']_?____________________P!_?[^_
MOP```/_______________________P!_?P#__P```/_______________[^_
MOP```````````````````````````````````']_?________________P!_
M?P!_?P#__P```/_______P````````````````````````!_?P```/______
M_____[^_OP```````````````````````````````````']_?___________
M_____P!_?P#__[^_OP```/___P````!_``!_``#_`+^_OP``````````````
M`/___________[^_OP```````````````````````````````````']_?___
M_____________P!_?P!_?P#__P````#_``#_``#_`/___P!_`/___[^_OP``
M`````````/___________[^_OP``````````````````````````````````
M`']_?____________________P!_?[^_OP````#_``#_``#_`/_______P!_
M`']_?W]_?P```````/___________[^_OP``````````````````````````
M`````````']_?____________________P!_?P#__P````#_``#_``#_``#_
M``#_`/___P!_?W]_?____P#__P```/_______[^_OP``````````````````
M`````````````````']_?________________P!_?P#__[^_OP````#_``#_
M``#_``#_`/_______P!_?P#__W]_?____P#__P```````+^_OP``````````
M`````````````````````````']_?____________P!_?P!_?[^_OP#__P``
M``````````````````````````!_?[^_OP!_?W]_?____P``_P``?P``````
M`````````````````````````````````']_?____________P!_?[^_OP#_
M_[^_OP#__[^_OP#__[^_OP#__[^_OP#__[^_OP#__[^_OP!_?P``?_\`_P``
M_P``_P```````````````````````````````````']_?____________P!_
M?P#__P!_?P!_?P!_?P!_?P!_?P#__P!_?P!_?P!_?P!_?P!_?P#__P!_?P``
M````?_\`_P``_P``_P```````````````````````````````']_?_______
M_____P!_?P!_?P!_?____________P!_?P!_?P!_?____________P!_?P!_
M?P!_?P```/___P``?_\`_P``_P``_P```````````````````````````']_
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M_____________________________W]_?________[^_OW]_?P``````````
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M_____________________________________W]_?____[^_OW]_?P``````
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M_____________________________________________W]_?[^_OW]_?P``
M````````````````````````````?_\`_P``_P``_P```']_?___________
M_____________________________________________________W]_?W]_
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M____________________________________________________________
M_W]_?P``````````````````````````````````````````````?P``?P``
M`']_?W]_?W]_?W]_?W]_?W]_?W]_?W]_?W]_?W]_?W]_?W]_?W]_?W]_?W]_
M?W]_?W]_?W]_?P``````````````````````````````````````````````
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/-R@#```#`"$.Q?0``- 5
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end

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 12:05:21 1997
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	id m0wHDWz-00002Sa; Tue, 15 Apr 97 12:04 PDT
X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: foiling machines
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:59:31 EDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.185931.0>
References: <<1997Apr15.5312.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Eleanor,

	I bought the Inland EdgeMaster II and have really regretted it. 
Maybe it's just me.  I hate it.  I practiced with it for a long time, but
never found it to be easier than doing it by hand.  Maybe I just never
got the hang of it.  I think someone posted a question about foiler a
year or so ago, and it seemed that the responses were either or.  Either
people really liked them, or they didn't like them at all.  (I wish I'd
asked before I'd bought it.)  If I had it to do over again, I'd try
before buying.  Maybe you can borrow one to try it out.  I keep thinking
about giving it another try, but haven't yet.  Right now it's just a dust
catcher.

Jerri

On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Yegnim@aol.com writes:
>I plan to buy a foiling machine shortly.  Problem is, I don't know 
>whether to
>buy one that crimps or not.  I like the idea of crimping to save time,
>however, what about those hard to crimp spots on many pieces?  Can I 
>adjust
>the machine so that it will not crimp certain sections of pieces?  I 
>really
>like the idea of the machine centering the foil on the piece.  What 
>about the
>ones that automatically peel off the backing paper?  Any input would 
>be
>appreciated since this is an investment of well over $20 or even over 
>$30.  I
>just want the right one and will pay extra as I do so much glass, I 
>know I
>will get my money's worth out of the right machine.
>Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com)
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 14:28:36 1997
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	id m0wHFlX-0001ATa; Tue, 15 Apr 97 14:27 PDT
X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire
From: Doug Scale <proffire@ebtech.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: foiling machines
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:29:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.13292.0>
References: <<1997Apr15.5312.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Yegnim@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I plan to buy a foiling machine shortly.  Problem is, I don't know 

Eleanor,

I have used the Glastar foiler for couple of years and my dad used it
before me.  as the literature says it does take a while to get used to
but i would be lost without it now as i can foil very quickly and
acurately with it.  As one of the other sugestions stated don't
permanently mount it to your work bench but do mount it on a heavy firm
surface. This foiler only partially crimps but i am going to use a neat
burnishing tool i saw in Las Vegas soon , i hope, if Robert Lennox, ever
ships it to me.

Good luck.

Doug Scale
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 15:50:39 1997
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X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn
From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Butterfly Mold
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:53:10 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.115310.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Glade the mold made it.. Hope you enjoy..Thanks for the order..
Walter
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 15:51:12 1997
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	id m0wHH3p-00015Ra; Tue, 15 Apr 97 15:50 PDT
X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: computer generated heraldry
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:00:47 +0000
Message-ID: <199704152250.XAA24786@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Basically to JJ Kirby;
Got your e-mail about techniques and other questions posted to the 
group.
Please bear with me.        I will reply
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 15:52:24 1997
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X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn
From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: E-Mail
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:54:59 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.115459.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Sorry I sent the thanks to Bungi  Board should have been to Redware
Sorry  Have a nice day..
Walter
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 16:07:55 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar
From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: foiling machines
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:06:31 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.15631.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I had a discussion with a couple of retailers and found out that many people
bring back foilers- The inland is all plastic and flimsy from what I
understand, and glasstar is a bit better but not much. I was told however
that the Diegel Foil O Matic is very good. I spoke with a couple artists and
they all swore this was the only one to buy.  Good luck!   Krissy
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 16:10:20 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland
From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:09:46 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.15946.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Yep right in philly!....glad to hear your nearby!
Maureen
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 16:56:15 1997
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas-Dream Catcher
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:52:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.15529.0>
References: <<1997Apr15.94220.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Linda,

Loved the 'Dream Catcher' I saved it to disk-and plan on doing one for
me, as soon as I finish the 2 projects I'm working on now. The picture
came out great too.  I will do it in foil, and a little bigger.  Thanks,
and I am glad it got posted to the list.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 17:27:58 1997
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cost of glass...
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:23:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.162338.0>
References: <<199704151634.JAA20191@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

I usually avoid this type of discussion, but fully concur with Howard on
this point.  Since you are 'creating art' with glass, you should use the
most outstanding glass (color, pattern, etc) with little or no regard to
cost.  Glass cost is such a minor part of the whole creation.  I use the
less expensive types for boxes, vases, and less expensive creations for
a 'price point' at shows.  The good stuff is for the panels, lamps, and
things that take so much time.  And sometimes I even use genuine
gemstones in some creations.

Lee Boe
Rain-
Boe's Creations

Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote:

> Short case in point....had a student who was meticulous....and painfully
> frugal..scrounged up what ever glass he could find that was cheaper than
> cheap or free, did impeccable work and had very poor looking lamps.
> He mused why my students work looked SO MUCH BETTER, even if the
> craftsmanship was not good (it is in the choice of glass). He would vow to
> let me pick the glass with no set price and just pay it....too many years of
> frugality (byb he was quite wealthy) and ALWAYS chickened out when the time
> came to pay up....and went back to routine.
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 18:04:56 1997
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X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: foiling machines
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:04:48 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970415210446.006bc150@mail.bright.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 07:06 PM 4/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I had a discussion with a couple of retailers and found out that many people
>bring back foilers- The inland is all plastic and flimsy from what I
>understand, and glasstar is a bit better but not much. I was told however
>that the Diegel Foil O Matic is very good. I spoke with a couple artists and
>they all swore this was the only one to buy.  

Have you used it yourself?  Sorry but this is one of my pet peeves, giving
advice from others when you haven't experienced it yourself.  For me the
Diegel is WAY too expensive when I get great results from Inland for 1/3
the price.  Don't mean to flame, just my opinion that each should stand up
for their own experiences.

Joyce

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 18:34:57 1997
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X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:34:53 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.203453.0>
References: <<1997Apr15.32752.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> Could you give me a number or address for Warner-Crivellaro? 

W-C is located at 1855 Weaversville Road, Allentown, PA. There is a lot
of information about them at their web site:

www.warner-criv.com

Hilary
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 18:38:52 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland
From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:38:24 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.173824.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Eleanor, breezed through my mail earlier, didn't want you to think i was
being short.....(I am short....)  Yep I live in Philly, took stained glass
classes at the Cheltenham art centre several times.  My instructor was
wonderful, but her husband recently died and she isn't teaching at the
current time.  I was going to resign up for more classes, but my "day job" as
a neonatal nurse, and my parents' health problems have pretty much eliminated
any extra fun stuff at present.  I love glass, always have since childhood.
 I love the bunginians, what a neat group of people!....so i work on little
projects, nothing major at present, just to keep my mind off of
life-stuff.....Glad to hear from you!  It always seems as though everyone is
everywhere but here!
Take care, good hearing from you.
Maureen
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 18:52:24 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: foiling machines
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:52:09 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.20529.0>
References: <<1997Apr15.5312.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> I plan to buy a foiling machine shortly...

Eleanor,

I just got the Glastar and am still getting used to it. I have seen it
demonstrated putting foil around a penny. That's small enough for me! So
far it works better than I do.

Mount it on a board that can be clamped or weighted over the edge of the
table so that large pieces don't get blocked by the table while you are
foiling. (Geeeezzze. Was that an understandable sentence?) The edges of
the foil are folded over the edge of the glass with this machine, but
they still need to be burnished down.

Hilary
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 19:00:49 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland
From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Pounds and inches
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:00:10 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.18010.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for all your help in understanding the differences between the pricing
methods.  I have also appreciated the discussions regarding choices of glass
for projects.  Having learned on Spectrum, I was truly amazed at the
alternative choices in glass available once i started browsing shops, and
catalogues and attending shows.  Again thanks to the group for their terrific
input.
Maureen
mosfunland@aol.com
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 19:09:10 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: ngai.com!pjnjril
From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:10:21 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970415211511.09af8d3a@mailp.starnetinc.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>I am puzzled by the pound method....why is it sold this way....I haven't
>ordered from the pounders as I am not sure how much to order.... any help
>from the experienced ones....

My thoughts - glass is either by foot or weight... those sold by foot don't
generally weigh much <G>... whereas Chicago Art Glass, Youg, and Lins weigh
a ton. I do alot with CAG and Youg, and I've never seen them sold by the
foot (I wish they would).


Paula Nelson
pjnjril@ngai.com


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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 20:35:54 1997
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X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy
From: Bob van Valen <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas 
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:27:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.192731.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC49F5.019CCE00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don't know if you planned to send this to the world, but it took about =
10 minutes to down load this, and it blew out my mail readers (2) after =
about 5 attempts.
-------
From: 	Linda Campbell[SMTP:lcbell@memach.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, April 15, 1997 1:42 PM
To: 	'glass@bungi.com'
Subject: 	RE: Glass Atlas=20

Glass Atlas=20

Joyce,

Here is my contribution to the Glass Atlas - Dreamcatcher. I hope some =
other novices in the group will not find it too primative. It is my =
first panel of any size and my first attempt a designing. I have done =
stained glass only for several months and fell in love with clear =
waterglass and wanted a way to use it. The main circle of the design is =
computer generated using Canvas on the Mac and the feathers were Xeroxed =
from some sheets from Tandy Leather. The whole thing is about 12 inches =
across. I learned on this one to design better for lead width. There's a =
sliver of clear glass near the feathers that made a blob of soulder, =
partly because of my poor fitting techniques and partly because of the =
design. Still learning and loving it.

Linda Campbell

<<File: pattern.jpg>><<File: orangesky.jpg>>

Send your patterns to joyce@mail.bright.net  Or snail mail
	Garden of Glass
	501 N. Madriver St.
	Bellefontaine, OH  43311



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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC49F5.019CCE00--

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 21:06:59 1997
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	id m0wHLzT-0001EJa; Tue, 15 Apr 97 21:06 PDT
X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy
From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:01:58 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.20158.0>
References: <<1997Apr15.94220.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Glass Atlas
<snip> 
 Still learning and loving it.
> 
> Linda Campbell
> 
Sorry for this response, but it's taken me an hour to get past this
posting and I'M POed. Neither MS Exhange nor Netscape have been able to
read my mail with this post in my inbox. The POP3 server at my ISP went
down twice trying to deliver this file. The only suggestion my ISP could
come up with was to delete ALL my mail, since the inbox is only emptied
when ALL the mail is delivered, every time I rebooted the mail reader
this post gagged the machine. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE people - consider
others when you post. At 481meg per copy, I hate to think of the number
of gigs of bandwith this thing ate up.
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 23:07:27 1997
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	id m0wHNru-0000gfa; Tue, 15 Apr 97 23:06 PDT
X-Path: gte.net!ecvalle
From: Liz Valle <ecvalle@gte.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: foiling machine
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:02:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr15.22243.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: home
Precedence: bulk

I use a diegel foil o matic and i have only done stained glass for 
a few months now. But it works well for me and did not take long 
to get used to. also came with a hand crimping tool which works well
on stright lines but not around tight corners
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 15 23:40:01 1997
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: ultimate foiling machine
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 23:39:06 -0500
Message-ID: <199704160639.XAA28389@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

I have one......attached to my wrists, always with me, to this point readily
findable, works well, rarely protests, does all sizes and textures, is
faster to change foil sizes, is efficient, does not take up any extra space
is available for no extra cost and has a multitude of other functions.

Over the years I have tried non-attached substitutes and have found my
natural one works better and faster than any other ones on the market.

enjoy..........H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 04:24:06 1997
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	id m0wHSoN-00000Aa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 04:23 PDT
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: ultimate foiling machine
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:30:29 +0000
Message-ID: <199704161123.HAA03854@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


> I have one......attached to my wrists

Reminds me of fishing ... one can do it with a simple line and lure, 
but some people have got to have those waders, vests, hats, special 
poles, weighted lines, etc. Old-time stained glass craftspeople used 
a simple cutter, created their own foil, etc., and never seemed to 
feel the lack of gimcracks and gimmicks ... but the present-day hobby 
retailer would have stained glass hobbyists believe that the craft 
can't be practiced without grinders (unnecessary), foilers 
(unnecessary), bandsaws (unnecessary), and every other kind of 
(expensive) device that fattens their bottom line.

Then, of course, they overcharge for everything and want the 
distributors to protect them. What a world.

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 04:41:01 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!IMN2GLASS
From: IMN2GLASS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:40:31 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.34031.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-04-16 04:55:49 EDT, you write:

<<  Could you give me a number or address for Warner-Crivellaro? 
 
 W-C is located at 1855 Weaversville Road, Allentown, PA. There is a lot
 of information about them at their web site:
  >>
Their # is 1-800-523-4242 or locally 264-1100.

Janet
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 05:00:35 1997
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	id m0wHTNh-00004Oa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 05:00 PDT
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: SORRY: was RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:59:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.35941.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Sorry, folks. I thought I was sending my attachments to Joyce only. 
Evidently I am still learning the computer too. I sincerely apologize for 
the trouble this has caused everyone.

Linda Campbell

----------
From: 	shyguy[SMTP:shyguy@vdot.net]
Sent: 	Wednesday, April 16, 1997 12:01 AM
To: 	glass@bungi.com
Subject: 	Re: Glass Atlas

Linda Campbell wrote:
>
> Glass Atlas
<snip>
 Still learning and loving it.
>
> Linda Campbell
>
Sorry for this response, but it's taken me an hour to get past this
posting and I'M POed. Neither MS Exhange nor Netscape have been able to
read my mail with this post in my inbox. The POP3 server at my ISP went
down twice trying to deliver this file. The only suggestion my ISP could
come up with was to delete ALL my mail, since the inbox is only emptied
when ALL the mail is delivered, every time I rebooted the mail reader
this post gagged the machine. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE people - consider
others when you post. At 481meg per copy, I hate to think of the number
of gigs of bandwith this thing ate up.

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`
end

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 05:49:31 1997
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	id m0wHU95-00001Za; Wed, 16 Apr 97 05:49 PDT
X-Path: alison.sbc.edu!melinton
From: melinton@alison.sbc.edu
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: ultimate foiling machine
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:42:23 -0400
Message-ID: <l03020700af7a7884865b@[198.28.38.107]>
References: <<199704161123.HAA03854@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Albert wrote:
> the present-day hobby
>retailer would have stained glass hobbyists believe that the craft
>can't be practiced without grinders (unnecessary) ...

I have to disagree slightly here Albert. The grinder lets me shape pieces
it would take me years to learn to cut. Since I am just a hobbyist I don't
cut every day or every weekend--without the grinder I'd have a mountain of
waste glass and no finished work. Talk about expense!
--Liz

You only need two things in life;
WD-40 to make things go faster & duct tape to make them stop.


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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 06:33:03 1997
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:32:19 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530505af7a9360b2f5@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

same song fifth verse
=shultz

>MGB?0;GPUXNT34_#>OZSX*\?>%O$VE7$]UI\&M^!O'?A[7_"VJW&B:OKWAK5+
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>M_@H=\.O!FG_&3PW>^+]3TNPUZT^%F@31>+O FF>/H/!NBZ1X@T?0[?\`G7_X


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 06:34:52 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHUr0-0001HZa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 06:34 PDT
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:34:09 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530507af7a93d1cd5a@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

same song sixth verse
=shultz


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>MFA[O?=[[[O?S[^=P>[WW>^^[W\^_G<#U/7J>O7J>OOZ^^::$1"-J*NQI&7"A


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 06:39:05 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHUv7-0000eZa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 06:38 PDT
X-Path: mail.smu.edu!gshultz
From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:38:26 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530509af7a9453ebe7@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I don't know about the rest of the group, but I got about 20 messages of
24k each of unreadable crap from Linda Campbell this morning. Does anyone
know if this is a spamming or a massive screw-up on her part????????

=Gary Shultz


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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 07:00:52 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHVG6-00004Sa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 07:00 PDT
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From: karenro <karenro@newpig4.newpig.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:53:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.55314.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Give her a break! It was an innocent mistake NOT a massive screw up.
I send attached file and recieve attached files in e-mail all the time
and 
have no trouble. You don't know how others mail systems are going to
react.

>Karen
>
>I don't know about the rest of the group, but I got about 20 messages
>of
>24k each of unreadable crap from Linda Campbell this morning. Does
>anyone
>know if this is a spamming or a massive screw-up on her part????????
>
>=Gary Shultz
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 07:30:13 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHViW-000100a; Wed, 16 Apr 97 07:29 PDT
X-Path: das.honeywell.com!frank.lerner
From: "Lerner, Frank M (NM75)" <frank.lerner@das.honeywell.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas 
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:29:58 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.22958.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello Linda,
 
I received your ORANGESKY.JPG file.  I know that you didn't mean to send
it to us, but it was beautiful and it made my day just to see it.
 
Thank you.
 
On another note,  you need to see spring and summer sunsets from New
Mexico.  It'll make you even more dreamy eyed....

Frank Lerner

>----------
>From: 	Linda Campbell[SMTP:lcbell@memach.com]
>Sent: 	Tuesday, April 15, 1997 11:42AM
>To: 	'glass@bungi.com'
>Subject: 	RE: Glass Atlas 
>
>Glass Atlas 
>
>Joyce,
>
>Here is my contribution to the Glass Atlas - Dreamcatcher. I hope some other
>novices in the group will not find it too primative. It is my first panel of
>any size and my first attempt a designing. I have done stained glass only for
>several months and fell in love with clear waterglass and wanted a way to use
>it. The main circle of the design is computer generated using Canvas on the
>Mac and the feathers were Xeroxed from some sheets from Tandy Leather. The
>whole thing is about 12 inches across. I learned on this one to design better
>for lead width. There's a sliver of clear glass near the feathers that made a
>blob of soulder, partly because of my poor fitting techniques and partly
>because of the design. Still learning and loving it.
>
>Linda Campbell
>
><<File: PATTERN.JPG>><<File: ORANGE~1.JPG>>
>
>Send your patterns to joyce@mail.bright.net  Or snail mail
>	Garden of Glass
>	501 N. Madriver St.
>	Bellefontaine, OH  43311
>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 07:32:33 1997
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	id m0wHVkl-00001Za; Wed, 16 Apr 97 07:32 PDT
X-Path: mail.smu.edu!gshultz
From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:31:45 -0600
Message-ID: <v0153050daf7aa0b0d323@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Karen,

I'm willing to give her a break. For whatever it's worth, I"ve written and
asked what help I could give her in dealing with attachments. If graphics
are going to be posted for this group to see, maybe we could come up with a
system that does not ACCIDENTALLY cripple people's mail systems.

=Gary


>Give her a break! It was an innocent mistake NOT a massive screw up.
>I send attached file and recieve attached files in e-mail all the time
>and
>have no trouble. You don't know how others mail systems are going to
>react.
>
>>Karen
>>
>>I don't know about the rest of the group, but I got about 20 messages
>>of
>>24k each of unreadable crap from Linda Campbell this morning. Does
>>anyone
>>know if this is a spamming or a massive screw-up on her part????????
>>
>>=Gary Shultz
>>
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 07:33:17 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHVlO-00003va; Wed, 16 Apr 97 07:32 PDT
X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:27:52 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970412013916.23bf1306@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi folks;
        I see "quickly" and "Quicker" used in reference to foiling
pieces.... approx. how many in how long machine versus hand?  I feel I am
quite quick by hand, but have nothing to compare it too.  I did a whole
window in 2-2 1/2 hours the other afternoon (in a meeting) Its really good
hand work for meetings... will count up and let you kow how many pieces
etc... later.. Meg
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 07:33:18 1997
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	id m0wHVlI-0001Kba; Wed, 16 Apr 97 07:32 PDT
X-Path: iamerica.net!flowers
From: Mike Barr <flowers@iAmerica.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: SORRY: was RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:28:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.42850.0>
References: <<1997Apr16.35941.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Flowers Etc
Precedence: bulk

Linda,                                                             
Although it seemed to cause problems for some, I'm glad you sent it
Always happy to see something new. I recieve drawings and attachments
often and have never had a problem, not sure what would bog their
systems down other than a tiny modem. Maby you could post for requests &
make up an address list to send larger messages to.
			anyway thanks
			Mike Barr
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 07:40:20 1997
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	id m0wHVsC-0000mXa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 07:39 PDT
X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: ultimate foiling machine
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:38:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.63832.0>
References: <<199704161123.HAA03854@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > I have one......attached to my wrists
> 
> Reminds me of fishing ... one can do it with a simple line and lure,
> but some people have got to have those waders, vests, hats, special
> poles, weighted lines, etc. Old-time stained glass craftspeople used
> a simple cutter, created their own foil, etc., and never seemed to
> feel the lack of gimcracks and gimmicks ... but the present-day hobby
> retailer would have stained glass hobbyists believe that the craft
> can't be practiced without grinders (unnecessary), foilers
> (unnecessary), bandsaws (unnecessary), and every other kind of
> (expensive) device that fattens their bottom line.
> 
> Then, of course, they overcharge for everything and want the
> distributors to protect them. What a world.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i agree and disagree. foilers are'nt really necessary, but they can be a
time saver, i personally don't use one. bandsaws are'nt necessary, but
they can be used to cut difficult glass, and impossibly cuts, advancing
the craft to a new level. grinders i consider necessary, you get tighter
fits, better foil jobs, and if you had to remove just a little bit of
glass; grozing it just is'nt the answer.

my stained glass guy, where i used to shop at, always discouraged me to
get a foiler, or the latest stained glass fad.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 07:44:26 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHVwL-00006ma; Wed, 16 Apr 97 07:44 PDT
X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:42:57 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.64257.0>
References: <<v01530509af7a9453ebe7@[129.119.37.12]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Gary Shultz wrote:
> 
> I don't know about the rest of the group, but I got about 20 messages of
> 24k each of unreadable crap from Linda Campbell this morning. Does anyone
> know if this is a spamming or a massive screw-up on her part????????
> 
> =Gary Shultz
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i think it might do something with the mail reader, some sends out a
privacy code, other's it's own, i wonder if it puts a little picture at
the end of the file like a sig line? as i, we, found out graphics don't
work to well, in this enviroment.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 07:47:59 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHVze-00003qa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 07:47 PDT
X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:46:21 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.64621.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970412013916.23bf1306@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> Hi folks;
>         I see "quickly" and "Quicker" used in reference to foiling
> pieces.... approx. how many in how long machine versus hand?  I feel I am
> quite quick by hand, but have nothing to compare it too.  I did a whole
> window in 2-2 1/2 hours the other afternoon (in a meeting) Its really good
> hand work for meetings... will count up and let you kow how many pieces
> etc... later.. Meg
> Richard and Meg LaVal
> apdo. 24-5655
> Monteverde
> COSTA RICA
> tel: 506 645 5052
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

judging it by window is'nt accurate, it depends on how many pieces. i
can go at around 50 to 100 pieces an hour, depending on complexity of
curves, size, etc.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 08:22:46 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHWXN-00004ua; Wed, 16 Apr 97 08:22 PDT
X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz
From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: ultimate foiling machine
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:21:11 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <199704161521.KAA02213@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>> the present-day hobby
>>retailer would have stained glass hobbyists believe that the craft
>>can't be practiced without grinders (unnecessary) ...
>. The grinder lets me shape pieces
>it would take me years to learn to cut. -without the grinder I'd have a
mountain of
>waste glass and no finished work. Talk about expense!
>--Liz

Liz, don't you believe that for one minute. You can learn to cut glass
manually if you could find someone to teach, encourage and motivate you,
someone who is not trying to sell you a substitute for your own dexterity.
It would take far less time then you think, certainly not years.

We are inundated with devices that are supposed to make our lives better and
easier, maybe so, I'll not make those judgements. I think Bunginians like
myself and others are not Luddites by any means otherwise we wouldn't be
talking with a computer but there is frustration because we know that
crafting stained glass can have a very pleasing simplicity to it and
wonderous things can be made with a pile of glass, a cutter, a pair of
pliers, a hot iron, a little metal, a pencil and paper and an idea and not
much else.

As usual just my 0.02 worth

Len

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 08:50:06 1997
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	id m0wHWxq-0000hra; Wed, 16 Apr 97 08:49 PDT
X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 08:48:42 -0500
Message-ID: <199704161549.IAA26459@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Answering that question is like my asking you what color piece of glass am I
holding now.

Too many variables to even come close.

I, when I first started, averaged my time in different aspects of making
lamps,  and found that my average was around 40 seconds per piece.

Large intricate pieces slower, grids or dragonfly bodies, much faster.

All times included all aspects of foiling and trimming any overlaps.

Over the years (still keep overall time on each shade) my TOTAL time per
shade has dropped around 20% and the quality has improved.

WORK SMART, not HARD.  

Enjoy........H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 09:39:49 1997
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X-Path: mail.bcpl.lib.md.us!panthony
From: "last name: Anthony" <panthony@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Len and Albert VS the Foiling machine
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:38:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.83818.0>
References: <<199704161521.KAA02213@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Len and Albert, your perspectives, as usual, make lurking here a
pleasure.
--SB Anthony
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 09:54:12 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHXxu-0000qaa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 09:53 PDT
X-Path: monmouth.com!clambert
From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas/Milk of human kindness
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:53:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.85349.0>
References: <<v0153050daf7aa0b0d323@[129.119.37.12]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Enchanted Glass
Precedence: bulk

Gary Shultz wrote:
> 
> Karen,
> 
> I'm willing to give her a break. For whatever it's worth, I"ve written and
> asked what help I could give her in dealing with attachments. If graphics
> are going to be posted for this group to see, maybe we could come up with a
> system that does not ACCIDENTALLY cripple people's mail systems.
> 

> >>24k each of unreadable crap from Linda Campbell this morning. Does
> >>anyone
> >>know if this is a spamming or a massive screw-up on her part????????

Gary, 
Nice of you to offer help.  Some of us are not as profficient at email
jockeying as others.  Heres just a suggestion, if one of us should
massivily "screw up" in the future, how about a tiny itty bitty
miniscule amount of slack? I Had a similar problem eight months ago and
Albert was kind enough to help me figure it out. Not before several
Computer wizards handed me my butt though.
It is not pleasant to get flamed for a whole group to read. It is
demeaning. Speaking on a personal level, I dont write in very often
because I dont want to get jumped on for something I may or may not do
to other peoples systems.
Sorry about the rant, The situation just poked at a sore spot.
as always
crzkt
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 10:16:46 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHYJc-0000nya; Wed, 16 Apr 97 10:16 PDT
X-Path: mail.smu.edu!gshultz
From: Gary Shultz <gshultz@mail.smu.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas/Milk of human kindness
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:15:53 -0600
Message-ID: <l03102800af7ac623921a@[129.119.37.12]>
References: <<v0153050daf7aa0b0d323@[129.119.37.12]>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

crzkt,

   Point taken.
   In trying to sort out what happened, it seems that problems between
Microsoft Exchange and other readers, such as Eudora, Pop, Zip, etc., are
common. It does not appear to be a UNIX-based problem, from what I am told.
If you are using Exchange and it has a settings option, you may wish to
consider sending attachments in Mime or BinHex. Most readers can decode
BinHex.
   If I learn anything else that would be helpful to the group, I'll let
you know.

=Gary


>
>Gary,
>Nice of you to offer help.  Some of us are not as profficient at email
>jockeying as others.  Heres just a suggestion, if one of us should
>massivily "screw up" in the future, how about a tiny itty bitty
>miniscule amount of slack? I Had a similar problem eight months ago and
>Albert was kind enough to help me figure it out. Not before several
>Computer wizards handed me my butt though.
>It is not pleasant to get flamed for a whole group to read. It is
>demeaning. Speaking on a personal level, I dont write in very often
>because I dont want to get jumped on for something I may or may not do
>to other peoples systems.
>Sorry about the rant, The situation just poked at a sore spot.
>as always
>crzkt
>----


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 10:34:20 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHYad-000033a; Wed, 16 Apr 97 10:33 PDT
X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Len and Albert VS the Foiling machine
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:40:34 +0000
Message-ID: <199704161733.NAA21137@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


> Len and Albert, your perspectives, as usual, make lurking here a
> pleasure.

Aw, shucks (looking about for a clod to scuff with the toe of my 
shoe)

A
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 11:11:45 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHZAu-0000h7a; Wed, 16 Apr 97 11:11 PDT
X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim
From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:11:07 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.10117.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Can't someone make an honest mistake?????
My mail did not get screwed up.  It is ashame if some peoples' did.  These
things just happen sometimes.
Eleanor Yegnim@aol.com
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 12:10:02 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHa5E-0000uWa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 12:09 PDT
X-Path: aol.com!SUGR5
From: SUGR5@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: ultimate foiling machine
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:09:24 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.11924.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

      I happen to be one of the "gadget lovers".    I don't buy a lot of them
because I would rather buy glass, but when i win the lotto, I will probably
buy at least one of each just to have them.  I think it's obvious none of the
extras are really needed to achieve beautiful SG creations but geez, some of
us are addicted to "stuff".  Some of those old-timers must of felt a lack, or
all the gadgets would not have been invented.
    Are the  pieces created without "gimmicks" such as grinders, foilers,
ect., better quality than those pieces created with "gimmicks"?  
    I wonder if the artists before Tiffany thought copper foil was a gimmick?
 I'm new to Stained Glass and have not read much about the history of Stained
Glass,  is there any information about how CF was received by the artists of
that time?
   Anyway, I think the crap will be culled from the truely useful by the test
of time.
  
Susan   























































                                                                  >>>Old-time
stained glass craftspeople used 
>>>a simple cutter, created their own foil, etc., and never seemed to 
>>>feel the lack of gimcracks and gimmicks ...
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 14:11:20 1997
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X-Path: hiline.net!rgvmuse
From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:18:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.111825.0>
References: <<1997Apr15.192731.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

Linda,
Hi!  I don't know why or how I got the images and the whole thing, but I
did and enjoyed it.  Computers sometimes are mysterious and sometimes
they do things we don't expect or intend.  I'm sorry it triggered
negative stuff for some of our group, but it made my day.  Linn
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 14:16:49 1997
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: ultimate foiling machine
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:21:38 -0500
Message-ID: <199704162115.QAA19171@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



----------
> From: SUGR5@aol.com
> I think it's obvious none of the
> extras are really needed to achieve beautiful SG creations but geez, some
of
> us are addicted to "stuff".  Some of those old-timers must of felt a
lack, or
> all the gadgets would not have been invented.
> 
Nope. The gadgets,  including coppor foiling of flat panels  were 
introduced to the marketplace as a way to encourage the growth of s.g. by
making it easier for people get started in the craft and it still is the
main  thrust of the market,  the thinking being  the less you have to learn
the more likely you are to try it. Unfortunately too many folks never take
off the training wheels.


Are the  pieces created without "gimmicks" such as grinders, foilers,
> ect., better quality than those pieces created with "gimmicks"?
 
 Nope. But you have to be careful because you know you can always tell that
bread, no matter how good it is, came from a machine because it's got a
funny shape and has a hole in it ;-)

  I wonder if the artists before Tiffany thought copper foil was a gimmick?
>  I'm new to Stained Glass and have not read much about the history of
Stained
> Glass,  is there any information about how CF was received by the artists
of
> that time?

Copper foil was used to make lamps and some areas of windows and it was
years before it became a popular  technique

>    Anyway, I think the crap will be culled from the truely useful by the
test
> of time.
> 
Not if Joe Salesman has  got anything to say about it
 
Have fun 

Len
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 14:46:50 1997
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	id m0wHcWy-000130a; Wed, 16 Apr 97 14:46 PDT
X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: ultimate foiling machine
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:45:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.13459.0>
References: <<1997Apr16.11924.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

SUGR5@aol.com wrote:
> 
>       I happen to be one of the "gadget lovers".    I don't buy a lot of them
> because I would rather buy glass, but when i win the lotto, I will probably
> buy at least one of each just to have them.  I think it's obvious none of the
> extras are really needed to achieve beautiful SG creations but geez, some of
> us are addicted to "stuff".  Some of those old-timers must of felt a lack, or
> all the gadgets would not have been invented.
>     Are the  pieces created without "gimmicks" such as grinders, foilers,
> ect., better quality than those pieces created with "gimmicks"?
>     I wonder if the artists before Tiffany thought copper foil was a gimmick?
>  I'm new to Stained Glass and have not read much about the history of Stained
> Glass,  is there any information about how CF was received by the artists of
> that time?
>    Anyway, I think the crap will be culled from the truely useful by the test
> of time.
> 
> Susan
> 
>                                                                   >>>Old-time
> stained glass craftspeople used
> >>>a simple cutter, created their own foil, etc., and never seemed to
> >>>feel the lack of gimcracks and gimmicks ...
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well tiffany invented foil, though i don't think it had a sticky back.
as far as i know Tiffany and LaFarge were the two main (at least known)
driving forces behind stained glass. hmm...i guess i really don't have a
point to this one, poo...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 14:50:51 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHcap-000134a; Wed, 16 Apr 97 14:50 PDT
X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds
From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Who created more problems
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:52:55 -0100
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.165255.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am in the habit of printing my messages from the bungi line at work. I =
know this is a waste of paper and technology but it allows me to read =
the comments and replies while I am working.. Well, as someone said, =
here is my 2 cents. The person who sent the "dream shield", I know I =
have the wrong title, but you have read your mail and know the title. =
Her message and pattern came through just fine, in 2 printed pages, the =
Person who commented on the on what he received, caused my pc to back up =
and it took 7 printed pages of gibberish to hear his reply of why  his =
pc was not operating properly.. and he even sent it twice..  So who =
wasted time and space. And I give credit to the woman who sent the =
pattern. She tried, it worked and we received a very pleasant pattern to =
boot.=20

----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 14:56:44 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHcge-0001F7a; Wed, 16 Apr 97 14:56 PDT
X-Path: digital.net!agw
From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: butterfly molds
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:56:08 -0400 (GMT)
Message-ID: <199704162156.RAA20835@digital.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Christie,

Jennifer from Diamond Tech here.  The problems you are encountering are the
result of not using the MosaicStone Cement.  We have designed this cement
mixture after much testing and research.  Our specially formulated
MosaicStone Cement is extremely durable.  It will not crack in the 1/4"
coaster form (normal cement will) and dries quickly to a smooth white
finish.  The response I've had from the Cement has been extremely positive.
We designed the cement for the small coaster forms but people have been
using it for the larger shapes as well because of the quick drying time,
less mess and the beautiful finish it gives.  If you have any questions on
the MosaicStone Cement please call DTI at 800-937-9593.  

FYI - by popluar demand I've recently designed four new coaster shapes
including a heart, circle, hexagon and star.  Patterns for these new coaster
shapes and our other new shapes which include a 14" heart and 18" Round and
Moonstone Mosaic Mural Walkway will be in MosaicArt Book One and MosaicArt
Book Two.  The new shapes are in stock now and Book One will be available at
the beginning of May with Book Two to follow in June.

Sincerely,
Jennifer
Diamond Tech International

At 08:01 AM 4/7/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Message text written by INTERNET:wood@telalink.net
>>No one has mentioned using the 4 1/4" tile mold or the 24" tree ring
>molds yet. I thought these were a good idea. The tile mold takes a
>different kind of cement because it is so thin.<
>
>I make three test tiles using the 4 1/4" tile mold, and am not terribly
>impressed.  I used Quickcrete and had terrible results, as the little rocks in
>the concrete were too large for such a thin mold.  I think the 4 1/4" mold is
>just too thin to begin with, but I am still trying to get a good, clean
tile out
>of it.  I am going to try again and screen out the rocks from the Quickcrete.
>Another option is to switch over to Portland cement or something much finer
than
>Quickcrete.
>
>On the other hand, I did two stepping stones using the double brick (8 x 8)
>mold, using Quickcrete and a chicken wire mesh for internal support, and they
>turned out nicely.  In fact, sold them this weekend at a show for $35 a piece.
>But I'm just not happy with the 4 1/4" tiles.
>
>Anybody else have experience (hopefully better than mine) with these little
>tiles?
>...Christie
>
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 15:35:43 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHdII-0000XQa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 15:35 PDT
X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: "gizmos"
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:45:03 +0000
Message-ID: <199704162235.XAA23825@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Len and Albert,

How nice it is to have a few words of "sanity" balancing all this 
techno-speak. I make my students create some tools out of old 
discarded dinner-knives, the end of a broomstick + odd nails and odd 
bits of wood........   ;-)

Len: especially nice to see you back!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 15:35:52 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHdIO-0001A1a; Wed, 16 Apr 97 15:35 PDT
X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: SORRY: was RE: Glass Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:45:03 +0000
Message-ID: <199704162235.XAA23840@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Don't worry Linda,
I am still catching up with MY long e-mail list after my time away, I 
realize there is a very loooong file somewhere. It certainly hasn't 
crashed MY system - it just took a long time to down-load. Will look 
forward to seeing it.
Never mind the odd "grouch", What would life be without them....    
;-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Linda wrote:
Sorry, folks. I thought I was sending my attachments to Joyce only. 
Evidently I am still learning the computer too. I sincerely apologize for 
the trouble this has caused everyone.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 16:51:57 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHeU8-0001C3a; Wed, 16 Apr 97 16:51 PDT
X-Path: juno.com!roadrunner47
From: roadrunner47@juno.com (Jacque E Smith)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:Garbage gateway
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:50:24 EDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.235024.0>
References: <<v0153050daf7aa0b0d323@[129.119.37.12]>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I do know that my e-mail system does not handle graphics..I am on Juno
and all I get is garbage if a graphic is attached. yes its inconvienient.
but its a free e-mail so i will put up with the garbage..and thanks for
the try to share the graphic with me
Jacque
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 17:42:18 1997
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	id m0wHfGg-00003ya; Wed, 16 Apr 97 17:41 PDT
X-Path: usaor.net!madglass
From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: SORRY: was RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:38:49 -0400
Message-ID: <199704170041.UAA16652@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Don't be sorry Linda, I enjoyed the pictures!

mad


----------
> From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
> To: 'glass@bungi.com'
> Subject: SORRY: was RE: Glass Atlas
> Date: Wednesday, April 16, 1997 7:59 AM
> 
> Sorry, folks. I thought I was sending my attachments to Joyce only. 
> Evidently I am still learning the computer too. I sincerely apologize
for 
> the trouble this has caused everyone.
> 
> Linda Campbell
> 
> ----------
> From: 	shyguy[SMTP:shyguy@vdot.net]
> Sent: 	Wednesday, April 16, 1997 12:01 AM
> To: 	glass@bungi.com
> Subject: 	Re: Glass Atlas
> 
> Linda Campbell wrote:
> >
> > Glass Atlas
> <snip>
>  Still learning and loving it.
> >
> > Linda Campbell
> >
> Sorry for this response, but it's taken me an hour to get past this
> posting and I'M POed. Neither MS Exhange nor Netscape have been able to
> read my mail with this post in my inbox. The POP3 server at my ISP went
> down twice trying to deliver this file. The only suggestion my ISP could
> come up with was to delete ALL my mail, since the inbox is only emptied
> when ALL the mail is delivered, every time I rebooted the mail reader
> this post gagged the machine. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE people - consider
> others when you post. At 481meg per copy, I hate to think of the number
> of gigs of bandwith this thing ate up.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 18:30:14 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHfyO-0000vha; Wed, 16 Apr 97 18:26 PDT
X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar
From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "gizmos"
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:26:41 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.172641.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have used a beech wooden spoon for years as a fid!!!! I just bought the
genuine article but prefer the spoon, and besides, I can swat the kids as
they go by, too!!    :)
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 19:06:46 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHgae-00019Sa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 19:06 PDT
X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Site for Comet & Lunar Eclipse Photos-No Glass
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:02:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.18229.0>
References: <<1997Apr16.172641.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

This is not a class post-but may be of general interest. Hit delete
button if not interested.

Thought I would post this site:

http://www.comet-track.com/hb/hb323.html#begin

If anyone is interested in some fantastic pictures of comet Hale-Bopp,
and the Lunar eclipse.  This site has cross links to others, but is very
'long loading' for slower modems.  Be Aware of that before you try.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 19:08:24 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHgcD-0000x2a; Wed, 16 Apr 97 19:08 PDT
X-Path: pacbell.net!kraby
From: "Kenny Raby" <kraby@pacbell.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas/Milk of human kindness
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 18:33:03 -0700
Message-ID: <199704170207.TAA14537@mail-gw2.pacbell.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I must disagree here.  I've found very few non-Macintosh readers which can
decode BinHex.

The attachment was sent in UUEncode which most readers I've used decode
quite well.

Mime is the new standard and I would have to say it is probably the best
choice for cross-platform use.  Some older readers I've used don't support
it but most newer ones do.

Biggest problem I've encountered are the gateways to various e-mail system
(for example we use Banyan Vines at work and it has to use a gateway to
send/receive via the internet SMTP standard, previous versions of the
gateway didn't do ANY encoding/decoding and sending/recieving attachments
by it was a real pain since it had to be manually done)



----------
> From: Gary Shultz <gshultz@post.cis.smu.edu>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Glass Atlas/Milk of human kindness
> Date: Wednesday, April 16, 1997 11:15 AM
> 
> crzkt,
> 
>    Point taken.
>    In trying to sort out what happened, it seems that problems between
> Microsoft Exchange and other readers, such as Eudora, Pop, Zip, etc., are
> common. It does not appear to be a UNIX-based problem, from what I am
told.
> If you are using Exchange and it has a settings option, you may wish to
> consider sending attachments in Mime or BinHex. Most readers can decode
> BinHex.
>    If I learn anything else that would be helpful to the group, I'll let
> you know.
> 
> =Gary
> 
> 
> >
> >Gary,
> >Nice of you to offer help.  Some of us are not as profficient at email
> >jockeying as others.  Heres just a suggestion, if one of us should
> >massivily "screw up" in the future, how about a tiny itty bitty
> >miniscule amount of slack? I Had a similar problem eight months ago and
> >Albert was kind enough to help me figure it out. Not before several
> >Computer wizards handed me my butt though.
> >It is not pleasant to get flamed for a whole group to read. It is
> >demeaning. Speaking on a personal level, I dont write in very often
> >because I dont want to get jumped on for something I may or may not do
> >to other peoples systems.
> >Sorry about the rant, The situation just poked at a sore spot.
> >as always
> >crzkt
> >----
> 
> 
>       ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
>     ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
>   ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~
> 
> 
> ----
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----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 19:12:38 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHggG-0000k2a; Wed, 16 Apr 97 19:12 PDT
X-Path: somtel.com!rickym
From: "Maria" <rickym@somtel.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re. Sorry
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:16:37 -0400
Message-ID: <199704170212.WAA09933@quint.somtel.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Linda,
	Just needed to let you know I enjoyed your dream catcher pattern and the
photo too. I got it without a problem and was very    happy about it. Kind
of felt like waiting for a "surprise" while it down loaded..... 

			Thanks Again,
				Maria    ;-)
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 19:54:22 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHhKb-00006ia; Wed, 16 Apr 97 19:53 PDT
X-Path: bwaldron.com!beverly
From: "Beverly Waldron" <beverly@bwaldron.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: thanks, foilers, cutters and an aside to Bungians in the Tam
Summary: Authenticated sender is <bwaldron#shell3.ba.best.com@gateway>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:51:45 -0500
Message-ID: <199704170250.TAA03065@proxy3.ba.best.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

First, as a lurker I must thank all of you for the useful information, 
the laughs, and the sighs (I keep thinking one of the mailing lists I 
belong to will not exhibit all of the aspects of human nature).

With respect to foilers, I inquired about the benefits of using one at 
one of my area stores and created a spirited discussion. One of the 
owners loves his Glastar, one likes hers but doesn't use the guides, 
and a third thinks they are a total waste of time. Since foiling is not 
one of my favorite aspects, I decided to give it a try. Bottom line, I 
love it. I mounted mine on a shelf that I had laying around in the 
garage (you know, the kind that fit on brackets you mount on the wall) 
The shelf is 8" deep and 30" long. It is the perfect width to rest on 
the arms of my favorite chair. In Florida being able to come in from 
the unair conditioned garage to the air conditioned house is a big 
bonus!

With respect to cutters, I think everybody has to find what works best 
for him or her. I use 3 types: pencil, pistol, and Thompson.  If I had 
to choose only one, I'd take the Thompson.

For those of you in the Tampa Bay area:
I know we are lucky in having several stores to choose from in the 
Tampa Bay area and I try and take advantage of most of them. (Now, 
that season is over and the interstate system is getting back to normal 
chaos I'll even be able to drive back down to Sarasota in a reasonable 
amount of time to go to Glass Crafters instead of having to rely 
on their catalog & mail order.) Just thought I would let you know that 
Stained Glass Alleys and Doors in Brandon (Riverview, if you're picky) 
is having a glass sale this Saturday (April 19th). All glass is 20% 
off. They do have a pretty nice & large selection and their regular 
prices are good. Their address is 6347 US Highway 301 S, Riverview, FL 
(813) 671-8607. That's jsut south of Bloomingdale on 301.



Beverly

Beverly Waldron
beverly@bwaldron.com (home)
http://www.bwaldron.com
bwaldron@co.pinellas.fl.us (work)
http://www.co.pinellas.fl.us/persnl
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 20:04:08 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHhTl-0000eFa; Wed, 16 Apr 97 20:03 PDT
X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire
From: Doug Scale <proffire@ebtech.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: foilers
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:04:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.19417.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Howard and Albert,

Some of us that are newer to this craft/art/hobby/or profession as in
your case like our toys like the foilers.  All the more power to you if
you don't need or use this stuff and we are envious of your talents but
they still help our projects and if they help with our time and quality
of work thats OK too eh!!


Doug Scale
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 20:04:56 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHhTm-0000e7a; Wed, 16 Apr 97 20:03 PDT
X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Re. Sorry
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:03:10 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.19310.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello Linda,

I ended up with gibberish somehow too but I would really like the pattern and
picture.  Could you please send it to my email as an attachment?

And I don't think that anyone who is trying to be generous and sharing and
creative is a nuisance!

Susie
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 20:28:46 1997
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X-Path: xtra.co.nx!read007
From: Michael Read <read007@xtra.co.nx>
To: "Glass-request@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: unsubscribe
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:29:53 -0700
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Please take me of the list for a while.  I will return!
-- 
Michael Read - the newbies shall inherit the Net!
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 22:17:40 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: nice to see support
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 22:16:17 -0500
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Me again, it is nice that most of you are supportive to Linda for a minor
transgression of an attachment, but...........HOW ABOUT SHOWING YOUR SUPPORT
TO HER PERSONALLY, rather than multiple posts to the list. It cannot be
sooooo difficult to send a personal note rather than just blanketing the
list...I for one do not enjoy it, and will not spend much more time reading
careless posts. I may EVEN have some input of value at times, but I am
considering the annoyance versus the over all good, and GOOD is losing......
......

enjoy................H


--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 22:59:16 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: English method?
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 01:58:42 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.215842.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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In a message dated 97-04-06 20:14:06 EDT, you write:

<< Peggy Johnson  (a fellow US Bunginian) and I have spent today cutting 
 glass according to the English method. >>

What's the English method of cutting glass?

Barbara
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 16 23:54:03 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Support and brevity
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 02:53:34 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr16.225334.0>
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I must again join in with Howard and suggest/request that people talk
directly to others when appropriate and avoid the long tag lines and copying
of the entire message.  Please take a look at the options of your email
messaging to shut off the automatic copying of messages or take 10 seconds to
delete the unnecessary stuff.  

Please let's be considerate of each other and the Rand's computer and storage
systems.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 02:21:42 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: sconces
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 05:21:12 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.12112.0>
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Gloria,
Your project sounds interesting.  Thank you for your response and keep us
posted on your progress.  I am anxious to hear of your finished design and
project.
Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com)
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 04:18:51 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>, "[unknown]" <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Re: butterfly molds
Date: 17 Apr 97 07:15:02 EDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.11152.0>
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Jennifer,

Thank you for the info about why my stained glass mosaic tiles were cracking up
when I used QuickCrete.  After reading up on some info about differences in
concrete mixtures, I do believe you diagnosed the problem for me.  Thank you.

I will order some of this concrete mixture and try it out.  I've had good
response using QuickCrete on the larger molds, so I probably will not change
that.  But I will definately try out your concrete mixture for the little tile
molds.  Also, I am trying out the concrete color additives, as a customer of
mine really liked hers.

...Christie

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 04:29:45 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: delphi stained glass e-mail address
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:29:13 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.32913.0>
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Emilio,
I punched up the address you posted on 3/28 and could not connect to delphi.
 The address is:  delphigl@bungi.com.  Is this correct?  I went straight to
Internet and typed it in after http//.  Did I do something wrong?  Is address
correct?  Thanking you in advance.
Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com)
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 06:06:16 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: Glass Atlas/Milk of human kindness
Date:         Thu, 17 Apr 97 09:04:40 EDT
Message-ID:   <970417.090537.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<1997Apr16.85349.0>>
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I can't read attachments (not MIME compatible here), but it doesn't
crash my system.  Just makes me sigh.
Dorothy

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 06:20:58 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: ultimate foiling machine
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:48:52 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.154852.0>
References: <<199704161521.KAA02213@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

When I learned to do stained glass I was told you could not foil until
after you had ground the edges of the glass, are you telling me this
isn't so?? I need to know as I don't want to teach others the wrong
thing just because I was taught that way.
Mary



On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:21:11 -0500 (CDT) len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
writes:
>>> the present-day hobby
>>>retailer would have stained glass hobbyists believe that the craft
>>>can't be practiced without grinders (unnecessary) ...
>>. The grinder lets me shape pieces
>>it would take me years to learn to cut. -without the grinder I'd have 
>a
>mountain of
>>waste glass and no finished work. Talk about expense!
>>--Liz
>
>Liz, don't you believe that for one minute. You can learn to cut glass
>manually if you could find someone to teach, encourage and motivate 
>you,
>someone who is not trying to sell you a substitute for your own 
>dexterity.
>It would take far less time then you think, certainly not years.
>
>We are inundated with devices that are supposed to make our lives 
>better and
>easier, maybe so, I'll not make those judgements. I think Bunginians 
>like
>myself and others are not Luddites by any means otherwise we wouldn't 
>be
>talking with a computer but there is frustration because we know that
>crafting stained glass can have a very pleasing simplicity to it and
>wonderous things can be made with a pile of glass, a cutter, a pair of
>pliers, a hot iron, a little metal, a pencil and paper and an idea and 
>not
>much else.
>
>As usual just my 0.02 worth
>
>Len
>
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 06:26:51 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: ultimate foiling machine
Date:         Thu, 17 Apr 97 09:18:41 EDT
Message-ID:   <970417.092618.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<1997Apr16.13459.0>>
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We all have methods of working that make certain gadgets a necessity.
I'd hate to work without my grinder, although I did when I first started.
For one thing, glass being glass, will "cave" slightly as it breaks,
often leaving a sharp edge.  A quick rub around the grinding wheel saves
me lots of blood loss later as I'm handling the glass.  And I'd rather grind
off those little corners on the flower petals than groze them off -- faster
and neater.  Getting a nice flat edge on the pieces helps with foiling, too.
Between the time saved and the injuries averted, I think a grinder is a
good investment.
Now, my husband loves his Glastar foiler and I hate it.  He also wants to
be able to design on the computer, but I like paper and pencil and LOTS
of eraser.  Not that I'm technophobic -- (Office alpha geek here) -- but
because I've always sketched and drawn.
Dorothy

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 06:30:01 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: nice to see support
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:28:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.52815.0>
References: <<199704170516.WAA20877@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote:
> 
> -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> 
> Me again, it is nice that most of you are supportive to Linda for a minor
> transgression of an attachment, but...........HOW ABOUT SHOWING YOUR SUPPORT
> TO HER PERSONALLY, rather than multiple posts to the list. It cannot be
> sooooo difficult to send a personal note rather than just blanketing the
> list...I for one do not enjoy it, and will not spend much more time reading
> careless posts. I may EVEN have some input of value at times, but I am
> considering the annoyance versus the over all good, and GOOD is losing......
> ......
> 
> enjoy................H
> 
> --
> New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
>     2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard
> 
> E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


a just calm down, you can ignore and delete those posts, it's not like
your paying for the list or anything.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 06:30:44 1997
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X-Path: busprod.com!artist
From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: delphi stained glass e-mail address
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:33:35 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970417083335.006a2358@busprod.com>
References: <<1997Apr17.32913.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>I punched up the address you posted on 3/28 and could not connect to delphi.
> The address is:  delphigl@bungi.com.  Is this correct?  I went straight to
>Internet and typed it in after http//.  Did I do something wrong?  

The correct address for Delphi should be:
<http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass>
hope this helps :)
LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 06:38:42 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: English method?
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:37:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.5372.0>
References: <<1997Apr16.215842.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-04-06 20:14:06 EDT, you write:
> 
> << Peggy Johnson  (a fellow US Bunginian) and I have spent today cutting
>  glass according to the English method. >>
> 
> What's the English method of cutting glass?
> 
> Barbara
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


if i remember right, i believe it's using the light box method (the one
i use). instead of cutting the paper, and using that as the pattern.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 06:40:53 1997
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
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I was a new reader, but I find that there are too many coming through that 
have no educational value to spend my time on this. Bye.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 06:42:43 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: delphi stained glass e-mail address
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:41:03 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.5413.0>
References: <<1997Apr17.32913.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Yegnim@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Emilio,
> I punched up the address you posted on 3/28 and could not connect to delphi.
>  The address is:  delphigl@bungi.com.  Is this correct?  I went straight to
> Internet and typed it in after http//.  Did I do something wrong?  Is address
> correct?  Thanking you in advance.
> Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com)
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

delphi's address is:
http://www.delphiglass.com/

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 07:25:29 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: ultimate foiling machine
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:48:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.54849.0>
References: <<970417.092618.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

mail wrote:
> 
> We all have methods of working that make certain gadgets a necessity.
> I'd hate to work without my grinder, although I did when I first started.
> For one thing, glass being glass, will "cave" slightly as it breaks,
> often leaving a sharp edge.  A quick rub around the grinding wheel saves
> me lots of blood loss later as I'm handling the glass.  And I'd rather grind
> off those little corners on the flower petals than groze them off -- faster
> and neater.  Getting a nice flat edge on the pieces helps with foiling, too.
> Between the time saved and the injuries averted, I think a grinder is a
> good investment.
> Now, my husband loves his Glastar foiler and I hate it.  He also wants to
> be able to design on the computer, but I like paper and pencil and LOTS
> of eraser.  Not that I'm technophobic -- (Office alpha geek here) -- but
> because I've always sketched and drawn.
> Dorothy
> 
> --
> Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
> UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
> HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah certain things are best done by hand. anything with alot of curves
in it, it's easier by hand, unless it's clipart then it's easier to
leave on the computer. i've been trying to find a program that i can
design my boxes on, something that would allow for the correct space for
the glass, so i don't have to think as hard to get the project planned.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 07:25:59 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: ultimate foiling machine
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:45:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.54542.0>
References: <<1997Apr17.154852.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mary J Austin wrote:


grinding the edges allows for better adhesion, straigter and truer
lines, nicer fitting joints, and of course no cuts when foiling. the
grinder really is'nt necessary, i learned without one, thought there was
one in the classroom the teacher never used it because she never had
one. when i started my shop, i did'nt have one, it was until i gave my
self a real get cut (the flared out glass kind), is when i decided to
get a grinder. and besides less cuts, the pieces fitted alot better.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 07:33:37 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHsEx-00002va; Thu, 17 Apr 97 07:32 PDT
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:32:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.63214.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4B1A.9E2B4500
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Linn,

Thankyou for the nice comments.

Linda

----------
From: 	Rio Grande Valley Museum[SMTP:rgvmuse@hiline.net]
Sent: 	Wednesday, April 16, 1997 5:18 PM
To: 	glass@bungi.com
Subject: 	Re: Glass Atlas

Linda,
Hi!  I don't know why or how I got the images and the whole thing, but I
did and enjoyed it.  Computers sometimes are mysterious and sometimes
they do things we don't expect or intend.  I'm sorry it triggered
negative stuff for some of our group, but it made my day.  Linn
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 07:35:03 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHsGl-000045a; Thu, 17 Apr 97 07:34 PDT
X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones
From: "Robert E. Jones" <rejones@CapAccess.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Site for Comet & Lunar Eclipse Photos-No Glass
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:39:03 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.6393.0>
References: <<1997Apr16.18229.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, leestat7 wrote:

> Hi All,
<SNIP> 
> 
> If anyone is interested in some fantastic pictures of comet Hale-Bopp,

Can you see the Heaven's Gate Mother Ship in the photos? ;-}

----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 07:35:30 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #15)
	id m0wHrCn-0000rMa; Thu, 17 Apr 97 06:26 PDT
X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: ultimate foiling machine
Date:         Thu, 17 Apr 97 09:18:41 EDT
Message-ID:   <970417.092618.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<1997Apr16.13459.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

We all have methods of working that make certain gadgets a necessity.
I'd hate to work without my grinder, although I did when I first started.
For one thing, glass being glass, will "cave" slightly as it breaks,
often leaving a sharp edge.  A quick rub around the grinding wheel saves
me lots of blood loss later as I'm handling the glass.  And I'd rather grind
off those little corners on the flower petals than groze them off -- faster
and neater.  Getting a nice flat edge on the pieces helps with foiling, too.
Between the time saved and the injuries averted, I think a grinder is a
good investment.
Now, my husband loves his Glastar foiler and I hate it.  He also wants to
be able to design on the computer, but I like paper and pencil and LOTS
of eraser.  Not that I'm technophobic -- (Office alpha geek here) -- but
because I've always sketched and drawn.
Dorothy

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 07:41:02 1997
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	id m0wHsMR-0000s2a; Thu, 17 Apr 97 07:40 PDT
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Glass Atlas - Flame me again
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:40:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.6404.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4B1B.B692B780
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Okay folks, I think I have done it again - and I am VERY sorry. I =
received a long list of folks who wanted the pattern and I believe on =
one of them I forgot to change the address from bungi to their address.=20

I have changed my setting to MIME which worked for others, so maybe I =
didn't foul up everybody's system as badly.=20

That's it. I'm not dong this again. Joyce, hurry up and get the web site =
up so we can share on a web page because judging from the response I got =
from my error (good and bad) it seems that the group is just itching to =
share and see each others work.

Linda Campbell
Fingers work faster than my brain.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 07:48:24 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #15)
	id m0wHrFs-0000gTa; Thu, 17 Apr 97 06:29 PDT
X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: nice to see support
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:28:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.52815.0>
References: <<199704170516.WAA20877@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote:
> 
> -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> 
> Me again, it is nice that most of you are supportive to Linda for a minor
> transgression of an attachment, but...........HOW ABOUT SHOWING YOUR SUPPORT
> TO HER PERSONALLY, rather than multiple posts to the list. It cannot be
> sooooo difficult to send a personal note rather than just blanketing the
> list...I for one do not enjoy it, and will not spend much more time reading
> careless posts. I may EVEN have some input of value at times, but I am
> considering the annoyance versus the over all good, and GOOD is losing......
> ......
> 
> enjoy................H
> 
> --
> New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
>     2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard
> 
> E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


a just calm down, you can ignore and delete those posts, it's not like
your paying for the list or anything.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 07:59:58 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #15)
	id m0wHrGY-0000x6a; Thu, 17 Apr 97 06:30 PDT
X-Path: busprod.com!artist
From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: delphi stained glass e-mail address
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:33:35 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970417083335.006a2358@busprod.com>
References: <<1997Apr17.32913.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>I punched up the address you posted on 3/28 and could not connect to delphi.
> The address is:  delphigl@bungi.com.  Is this correct?  I went straight to
>Internet and typed it in after http//.  Did I do something wrong?  

The correct address for Delphi should be:
<http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass>
hope this helps :)
LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 08:11:41 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHsq9-00004ia; Thu, 17 Apr 97 08:11 PDT
X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy
From: bashful <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Re. Sorry
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:10:43 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.41043.0>
References: <<1997Apr16.19310.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Heretics United
Precedence: bulk

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
<snip>			
> And I don't think that anyone who is trying to be generous and sharing and
> creative is a nuisance!
> 
> Susie
(Climb on soapbox here)
I posted about this attachment, and asked that people be careful about
sending out mass mailings, trying not to make it a pesonal attack.
People's thoughts and feelings are subjective, and for the most part,
there is no right or wrong. If you were interested in the pattern, you
probably defended the posting. If it screwed up your email, you
protested. I do not protest the intent of the post, but it's effect on
my PC and my ISP. A few days ago, there was a request for stepping
stone/mosaic archive postings. People were free to ask for or ignore the
mailing. I didn't want it, so I was silent. I was not given that option
on this pattern attachment. So besides getting something I didn't ask
for, or want, (sound like spam, or junk email to anybody?), it prevented
me from reading the rest of my mail, and interupted my service from my
ISP. 
The internet is a fragile environment, and as more people discover it,
the potential for disaster increases. All I ask is you do no harm. When
you click on the REPLY button, look to see, are you responding to the
original author, or the whole world. There are enough people out there
whose intent is to flood mailboxes with weight loss offers, get rich
quick schemes, phone sex and chain letters. I don't flame people for
off-topic posts, as I realize people form relationships in these forums
and there is more than just technical info exchanged. I get much joy and
information from maillists, and USENET news, but opening up a session
that results in a 90/10 split of garbage/useful information makes me
question whether it's worth my time or $19.95 a month anymore.      

(Climb off soapbox here)
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 08:17:33 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #15)
	id m0wHrOA-00004Va; Thu, 17 Apr 97 06:38 PDT
X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: English method?
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:37:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.5372.0>
References: <<1997Apr16.215842.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-04-06 20:14:06 EDT, you write:
> 
> << Peggy Johnson  (a fellow US Bunginian) and I have spent today cutting
>  glass according to the English method. >>
> 
> What's the English method of cutting glass?
> 
> Barbara
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


if i remember right, i believe it's using the light box method (the one
i use). instead of cutting the paper, and using that as the pattern.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 08:18:37 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHswr-0000pVa; Thu, 17 Apr 97 08:18 PDT
X-Path: aol.com!KrissyMar
From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: repetitive cuts
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:18:03 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.7183.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thought we needed a change of subject, and I was just asked about Morton
Portable Glass Shop,& other products for repetitive cutting. I would like to
hear from everyone who uses such a "gizmo".Also, who is the manufacturer and
supplires for the other one, or ones? ( and what is it's name??? I can't
remember for the life of me!)
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 08:21:44 1997
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From: <Gretchen.Begnoche@vtmednet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.91.970417094111.16803C-100000@hpux1.vtmednet.org>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I was a new reader, but I find that there are too many coming through that 
have no educational value to spend my time on this. Bye.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 08:34:24 1997
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: delphi stained glass e-mail address
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:41:03 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.5413.0>
References: <<1997Apr17.32913.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Yegnim@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Emilio,
> I punched up the address you posted on 3/28 and could not connect to delphi.
>  The address is:  delphigl@bungi.com.  Is this correct?  I went straight to
> Internet and typed it in after http//.  Did I do something wrong?  Is address
> correct?  Thanking you in advance.
> Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com)
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

delphi's address is:
http://www.delphiglass.com/

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 08:44:46 1997
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X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy
From: bashful <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: [Fwd: Off topic, light reading]
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:43:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.44347.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Heretics United
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------1C4A7921738F
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I got this off another mailing list, and the person that posted it got
it from yet another.........
It shows we're not alone

--------------1C4A7921738F
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:59:02 -0700
Message-Id: <199704170249.WAA27544@daisy.snet.net>
From: "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@SNET.Net>
To: "BBQ List" <bbq@AZStarNet.com>
Subject: Off topic, light reading
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:45:13 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
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And you think this list has hissy fits.  Got this on another list

Ed
esp@snet.net

I found the following totally hilarious.  It reminds me not to take myself
too seriously.  I hope you all enjoy it, too.


> Q:  How many internet mail list subscribers does it take
> 
>     to change a light bulb?
> 
> A:  1,331:
> 
>         1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail
> 
>           list that the light bulb has been changed
> 
>        14 to share similar experiences of changing light
> 
>           bulbs and how the light bulb could have been
> 
>           changed differently.
> 
>         7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
> 
>        27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about
> 
>           changing light bulbs.
> 
>        53 to flame the spell checkers
> 
>       156 to write to the list administrator complaining about
> 
>           the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness
> 
>           to this mail list.
> 
>        41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames.
> 
>       109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and
> 
>           to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb
> 
>       203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar,
> 
>           alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing
> 
>           light bulbs be stopped.
> 
>       111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we
> 
>           are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts
> 
>           **are** relevant to this mail list.
> 
>       306 to debate which method of changing light
> 
>           bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs,
> 
>           what brand of light bulbs work best for this
> 
>           technique, and what brands are faulty.
> 
>        27 to post URLs where one can see examples of
> 
>           different light bulbs
> 
>        14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and
> 
>           to post corrected URLs.
> 
>         3 to post about links they found from the URLs that
> 
>           are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs
> 
>           relevant to this list.
> 
>        33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote
> 
>           them including all headers and footers, and then
> 
>           add "Me Too."
> 
>        12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing
> 
>           because they cannot handle the light bulb
> 
>           controversey.
> 
>        19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three."
> 
>         4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ.
> 
>         1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup.
> 
>        47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion
> 
>           was meant for, leave it here.
> 
>       143 votes for alt.lite.bulb.




--------------------


--------------1C4A7921738F--

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 09:04:31 1997
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: grinders
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:09:11 -0500
Message-ID: <199704171602.LAA13982@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

No doubt about it the glass grinder was a great invention. For cleaning up
edges for foiling, tops!  Even  the  real old-timers that I know admit to
their usefulness. I saw a bit that grinds grooves in the edge for use with
adhesives for restoration work pretty neat. I have a Glastar G-5  ( the
equivilant of a '57 chevy?) that I use for certain tasks and I would miss
for sure if it died. Since I am a lead worker  groozing marks are no
problem but when I cut ripple and you get those mean and nasty almost
invisible little spurs that mutilate flesh I grind EVERY piece.

Speaking of lead and foil, would anyone venture a guess as to the ratio of
foilers to leaders How about 80% - F    20% - L  ?

Len
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 09:05:24 1997
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	id m0wHtgG-0000lSa; Thu, 17 Apr 97 09:05 PDT
X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "KrissyMar@aol.com" <KrissyMar@aol.com>
Subject: Re: repetitive cuts
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 09:04:00 -0500
Message-ID: <199704171604.JAA14814@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

I consider the Morton System (not all the cutesy stuff you can buy as add-
ons) not a gizmo....
For stripping, repetive STRAIGHT line cuts, lamp panels an excellent tool.

I let my students play with two of them...show them a homemade version and 
show them where I feel $56.00 is worth spending and why, if they have
intentions of doing a lot of items that will use the system.

There was also a question of grinding and why......
I get asked to fix lamps that have "come apart" (usually imported ones) 
[cheap and cheaper]....they ALL have one thing in common, the edges have not
been ground. Is this just a coincidence...I think not!

P.S. I suggest they return it and ask for another one!

enjoy...........H


--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 09:07:43 1997
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	id m0wHtiV-0000lPa; Thu, 17 Apr 97 09:07 PDT
X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl
From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: delphi stained glass e-mail address
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:02:35 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704171602.MAA25987@vixa.voyager.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Eleanor,

>I punched up the address you posted on 3/28 and could not connect to delphi.
> The address is:  delphigl@bungi.com.  Is this correct?  I went straight to
>Internet and typed it in after http//.  Did I do something wrong?  Is address
>correct?  Thanking you in advance.

Our correct URLs are either http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass OR
http://www.delphiglass.com

It looks as though the address you have posted above is half of the email
addresses for both Delphi and Bungi.  The correct one is delphigl@voyager.net

I hope this clears things up for you.

Stephanie

______________________________________________________________________

                       **  E-mail:  delphigl@voyager.net
Delphi Stained Glass   **  WWW:     http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass
2116 E. Michigan Ave.  **  Voice:   1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada)
Lansing, MI  48912     **           1-517-482-2617 (International)
USA                    **  Fax:     1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada)
                                    1-517-482-4028 (International)
_____________________________________________________________________

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 10:17:50 1997
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Off topic, light reading]
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 10:16:35 -0500
Message-ID: <199704171717.KAA02659@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Looks to me that one significant aspect of changing the light bulb was
MISSED...................
THE BULB HAS TO WANT TO CHANGE, TOO!!!!!!
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 10:28:56 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Re. Sorry
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:28:33 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.92833.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well bashful,

Since you chose to quote my message to Linda here, let me respond to that.  

I was not aiming my comment toward you.  If I was, I would have addressed it
to you.  I was simply reassuring someone who was trying to do something kind
and who has been bashed pretty good for doing it.


----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 12:59:00 1997
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X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy
From: bashful <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Re. Sorry
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:58:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.8581.0>
References: <<1997Apr17.92833.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Heretics United
Precedence: bulk

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Well bashful,
> 
> Since you chose to quote my message to Linda here, let me respond to that.

I chose that particular message only because my tolerance for reading
any more about this subject was exceeded at that point. If you are
offended 'cuz you thought I was picking on you, I apologize. If you have
not gotten my 'light bulb' posting, hit Get Mail. All these groups are
composed of very diverse audiences. No way, no how is every recipient of
every post going to be happy with what they read, let alone be happy
about every thing else in this life. I have made an effort to NOT attack
anyone personally, just tried to get people to THINK before they hit
SEND. I have seen VERY embarassing mail that should have been private
sent to the list server, because the replier didn't notice that there
was a difference between the 'SENT BY' and 'REPLY TO' addresses. (NOTE:
not all mail readers provide this. Realize you may be disclosing very
personal stuff to a list of ???? people who each know...... people to
forward your faux pas onward.)  

The message I have tried to get across is BE CONSIDERATE. DO NO HARM.
Try to KINDER AND GENTLER. Engage brain before putting mouth in gear.
Not every one has the capability to decode binary posts. Some mail
readers/service providers cannot deal with a file larger than 20K or so,
and will split an attachment into as many chunks it needs to process,
hence the post about 24 messages of 20k. Unless the recipient is
knowledgable about reassembling the file, and decoding it, they can't
view the jpg or gif file anyway.
 Some people PAY for this service based on email volume. Express your
opinion without destroying the ego of the person you disagree with. This
is still a free forum, in free countries (for the most part). We all
have the right to express our opinions, without the fear of firing
squads. This is supposed to be enjoyable and educational. Be careful out
there
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 13:03:58 1997
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	id m0wHxP3-00018ga; Thu, 17 Apr 97 13:03 PDT
X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: [Fwd: Off topic, light reading]
Date:         Thu, 17 Apr 97 16:00:47 EDT
Message-ID:   <970417.160309.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<199704171717.KAA02659@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Howard.  That was lightbulb post #1332!

And we have yet to get into the lightbulbs in our lighboxes, photon
theory which leads to the obligatory Star Trek posting...

Heh, I've got a reception and a dinner to go to tonight, so I'm
outta here.

      Dorothy

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 13:28:34 1997
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X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott
From: "J. Hendershott" <jhendershott@macnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Re. Sorry
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 13:26:55 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.62655.0>
References: <<1997Apr17.8581.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

bashful wrote:
> 
> SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Well bashful,
> >
> > Since you chose to quote my message to Linda here, let me respond to that.
> 
> I chose that particular message only because my tolerance for reading

Enough already, can we drop this and get back to glass.
Lets have some fun
Janie
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 13:35:22 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wHxtV-0001DQa; Thu, 17 Apr 97 13:35 PDT
X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas - Flame me again
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 14:30:03 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970412060202.2b5f0d48@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 10:40 AM 4/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4B1B.B692B780
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Okay folks, I think I have done it again - and I am VERY sorry. I =
>received a long list of folks who wanted the pattern and I believe on =
>one of them I forgot to change the address from bungi to their address.=20
>
>I have changed my setting to MIME which worked for others, so maybe I =
>didn't foul up everybody's system as badly.=20


Didn't "foul me up" but am curious, and all this stuff, including this one
is just a bunch of computereese symbols.... which is why I voted for hard
copy on the atlas... my netscape isn't set up right either, so I can't
download from www neither can I send emails from netscape, and I haven't the
foggiest as to what to do, and haven't the extra $ for a proffesional to
come set it all up! :)
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 13:40:11 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: ou.edu!dfdavis
From: Denise F Davis-1 <dfdavis@ou.edu>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Check This Out
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:39:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.103937.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am new to this list, so I apologize if I am giving old information.  I
came across a web site with wonderful foiled panels.  

Try:   http://www.servtech.com/public/rnoddy/

>Denise
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 14:41:35 1997
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: grinders
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:26:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.132628.0>
References: <<199704171602.LAA13982@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> Speaking of lead and foil, would anyone venture a guess as to the ratio of
> foilers to leaders How about 80% - F    20% - L  ?
> 
> Len

i guess that's about right. but it depends what your strongest business
strength is. like i never use lead. and i know someone who works just in
lead. but i guess overall, alot of the more itricate projects are done
in foil.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too


----
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 14:41:55 1997
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X-Path: neo.lrun.com!jmccourt
From: Judy McCourt <jmccourt@neo.lrun.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:41:23 -0400
Message-ID: <01BC4B56.92450A00@a12a158.neo.lrun.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4B56.924E31C0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



I just feel a need to comment on this company..  I was on their web page over 
the weekend in a fit of boredom, looking for some different things, better prices, etc.,
and was in awe when I saw this page..  I requested a catalog and it was here by
Wednesday (they're quick!).  Their prices on glass and supplies are much better
than I've seen everywhere (even with shipping..)  

Their monthly sale prices are good, too.  Lotta good bargains there.

-Judy

> Could you give me a number or address for Warner-Crivellaro? 

W-C is located at 1855 Weaversville Road, Allentown, PA. There is a lot
of information about them at their web site:

www.warner-criv.com

Hilary
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 14:49:33 1997
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	id m0wHz3A-00003Qa; Thu, 17 Apr 97 14:49 PDT
X-Path: neo.lrun.com!jmccourt
From: Judy McCourt <jmccourt@neo.lrun.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: SORRY: was RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:48:51 -0400
Message-ID: <01BC4B57.9CF3E9C0@a12a158.neo.lrun.com>
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	Linda --  You didn't bog my system down at all (Roadrunner is a wonderful
service for those of you that have it) but it did come out as all garbage.  Could you
possibly send it again to me in e-mail?

jmccourt@neo.lrun.com

Thanks,

Judy


Linda,                                                             
Although it seemed to cause problems for some, I'm glad you sent it
Always happy to see something new. I recieve drawings and attachments
often and have never had a problem, not sure what would bog their
systems down other than a tiny modem. Maby you could post for requests &
make up an address list to send larger messages to.
			anyway thanks
			Mike Barr
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 14:58:05 1997
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	id m0wHz9R-0001Fba; Thu, 17 Apr 97 14:55 PDT
X-Path: neo.lrun.com!jmccourt
From: Judy McCourt <jmccourt@neo.lrun.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas/Milk of human kindness
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:55:22 -0400
Message-ID: <01BC4B58.85D279E0@a12a158.neo.lrun.com>
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I don't think you have anything to worry about posting-wise.  You have
to keep in mind what kind of people slam others for making mistakes.
If it was their mistake, I'm sure they wouldn't want to be ridiculed for
it, but you have to actually put yourself in that position to see it.

<<Psychology Major - 3 Years>>

We'd love to hear your opinion more.  Please, come out of your cave and
frolic with the rest of us in the green fields of beautiful broken glass (wear
shoes).  :)

-Judy

Gary, 
Nice of you to offer help.  Some of us are not as profficient at email
jockeying as others.  Heres just a suggestion, if one of us should
massivily "screw up" in the future, how about a tiny itty bitty
miniscule amount of slack? I Had a similar problem eight months ago and
Albert was kind enough to help me figure it out. Not before several
Computer wizards handed me my butt though.
It is not pleasant to get flamed for a whole group to read. It is
demeaning. Speaking on a personal level, I dont write in very often
because I dont want to get jumped on for something I may or may not do
to other peoples systems.
Sorry about the rant, The situation just poked at a sore spot.
as always
crzkt
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 15:05:37 1997
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	id m0wHzIi-0000y5a; Thu, 17 Apr 97 15:05 PDT
X-Path: neo.lrun.com!jmccourt
From: Judy McCourt <jmccourt@neo.lrun.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: nice to see support
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:04:52 -0400
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Me again, it is nice that most of you are supportive to Linda for a minor
transgression of an attachment, but...........HOW ABOUT SHOWING YOUR SUPPORT
TO HER PERSONALLY, rather than multiple posts to the list. It cannot be
sooooo difficult to send a personal note rather than just blanketing the
list...I for one do not enjoy it, and will not spend much more time reading
careless posts. I may EVEN have some input of value at times, but I am
considering the annoyance versus the over all good, and GOOD is losing......
......

enjoy................H


No offense or anything..  But aren't ya being a little touchy?

Reach deep into your soul and feel the love of mankind..
er..or is that gas?

I actually took a yoga class the other day where they played
nature music and told you to lay down and let your body flow
into the earth.   Like glass, this was something that was new
to me, and not to degrade yoga - many people are very interested
in it - but I think I'll stick to my panel lamps..

-Judy

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 15:07:25 1997
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X-Path: Computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@Computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: nice to see support
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:42:40 +0000
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> rather than multiple posts to the list.

Hear, hear!  But I expect the usual defensive flames from those too 
lazy to edit their replies, Howard.  So much for craftsmanship.

A
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 15:07:32 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@Computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: foilers
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:42:39 +0000
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> Some of us that are newer to this craft/art/hobby/or profession as in
> your case like our toys like the foilers.  

Okay, Doug, I can certainly understand your point of view ... just 
trying to be encouraging here that gizmos and gimcracks aren't really 
necessary. Some people get the idea (from the manufacturers and 
re-sellers, I'll bet) that glasswork can't be done without those 
crutches; I was just pointing out that those devices have been around 
only since the late 60s/early 70s and that stained glass has been 
being made without them for a few hundred years already.

Enjoy!

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 15:40:51 1997
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To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: you win.............
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 15:39:33 -0500
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Please remove form the list.
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 15:45:25 1997
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 15:44:12 -0500
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --


--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 15:45:48 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cost of glass... was perfect s/g store
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:45:21 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.144521.0>
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In a message dated 97-04-15 11:58:37 EDT, you write:

<< Thanks for tolerating my ranting
  >>

I though it was a really good message because it 
gave me a lot to think about.

As a hobbyist, I gravitate more to the "cheap" glass.
I don't really factor in my labor.  You're absolutely
right about more expensive glass being a key, 
incremental factor in better projects, especially 
considering the fixed and high cost of labor.

For many of the reasons, you stated I don't think 
studios should sell glass retail.  You're either a
retailer or not.  If you are, do a good job at it, if
you're not, get out of the business.




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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 16:41:05 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:40:33 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.154033.0>
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Denise,

I hadn't seen this one before.  Thanks for the info!  Very nice work there!

Susie
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 16:44:58 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:44:39 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704172344.TAA27335@water.waterw.com>
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Denise wrote,

>I am new to this list, so I apologize if I am giving old information.  I
>came across a web site with wonderful foiled panels.  
>
>Try:   http://www.servtech.com/public/rnoddy/
>

Thank for sharing this with us...great work but there are some cuts in his
work that are impossible!!!!!   From what his page says he uses alot of
layering.  But doesn't usepainting techiniques.  I am amazed..  I need to
ask this fellow some questions.   


my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 16:50:32 1997
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X-Path: acay.com.au!stout
From: "john stout" <stout@acay.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: lead v's foil
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:54:31 +1000
Message-ID: <199704172350.JAA05250@chris.acay.com.au>
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i guess that's about right. but it depends what your strongest business
strength is. like i never use lead. and i know someone who works just in
lead. but i guess overall, alot of the more itricate projects are done
in foil.


Hello

I am a lead worker.   I find one big problem is that the large majority of
pattern books and patterns use foil.  

This is a problem for me because I don't like making up my own patterns or
designing my own.

How did they used to manage (I have seen some interesting restoration
projects of very intricate windows) with lead before copper foiling.

Rosie.


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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 17:12:20 1997
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From: melinton@alison.sbc.edu
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:05:05 -0400
Message-ID: <l03020700af7c6a4793e8@[198.28.38.107]>
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PJ wrote:
>Thank for sharing this with us...great work but there are some cuts in his
>work that are impossible!!!!!   From what his page says he uses alot of
>layering.  But doesn't usepainting techiniques.  I am amazed..  I need to
>ask this fellow some questions.

Hey PJ--
Could you ask him for the group? Like a representative? I want to ask how
he got those moons in and how he did the leaf detail since he said it isn't
painting. But if you ask how he did this and those impossible cuts you
could tell us all without him being bothered multiple times by the
Bungians. Please and thank you--
--Liz

You only need two things in life;
WD-40 to make things go faster & duct tape to make them stop.


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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 17:35:00 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:34:02 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704180034.UAA29218@water.waterw.com>
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>--Liz
I sent an email to the artist and asked a few questions.  I will forward any
reply I get to the group.

Has anyone else checked out this site.  I am intersted in any comments on
the work.

Also the backgrounds are almost all the same.  Really strange.

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 19:24:55 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:20:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.182042.0>
References: <<1997Apr17.103937.0>>
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Organization: @Home Network
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Wow, how does he do this indeed.  I will look forward to the answers in
the later post.  Multiple layers??? Paint?? How did he do the 'corn' 
Such detail.  BTW-english cutting method, put pattern on top of light
box, glass on top of pattern-locate part of class most pleasing-score
glass.  No pattern to cut, paste, much faster, and I do this most of the
time.  

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations 

Denise F Davis-1 wrote:
> 
> I am new to this list, so I apologize if I am giving old information.  I
> came across a web site with wonderful foiled panels.
> 
> Try:   http://www.servtech.com/public/rnoddy/
>
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 19:26:34 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: English method?
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:22:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.182227.0>
References: <<1997Apr16.215842.0>>
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BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
 BTW-english cutting method, put pattern on top of light box, glass on
top of pattern-locate part of class most pleasing-score glass.  No
pattern to cut, paste, much faster, and I do this most of the time.  
Just takes a little getting used to, but is mucn faster.
Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
 
> In a message dated 97-04-06 20:14:06 EDT, you write:
> 
> << Peggy Johnson  (a fellow US Bunginian) and I have spent today cutting
>  glass according to the English method. >>
> 
> What's the English method of cutting glass?
> 
> Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 19:27:27 1997
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From: suzannne albright <mail.suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass chat" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: glass chat
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 22:29:44 -0500
Message-ID: <199704180226.WAA11650@uz.comcat.com>
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Hello, is there a glass chat on this site?
suzy@comcat.com

 suzanne albright<suzy@comcat.com>

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 20:20:33 1997
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:29:55 -0700
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Please add me to your mailing list.

Thanks
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 20:51:29 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cost of glass... was perfect s/g store
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:55:59 +0000
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> For many of the reasons, you stated I don't think 
> studios should sell glass retail.  You're either a
> retailer or not.  If you are, do a good job at it, if
> you're not, get out of the business.

PMFJI, but most stained glass outfits are like tripods: they create 
new work on the "studio" leg, teach classes on the "customer 
generation" leg, and sell supplies to those customers on the 
"retailer" leg. Why? Because they need all three to survive. Very 
much a not-unusual arrangement. There are a few people in the stained 
glass world who agree with you that the industry should be run along 
tightly controlled lines, the manufacturers in that box, the 
retailers in another box, and everyone else outside the box. <s> But 
it's much too small an industry for that to work ... at least, so 
far.  Best efforts on the part of a couple of associations over the 
past ten years to force that kind of an arrangement have only 
resulted in their going back to "square one," just where they started 
out 10-15 years ago, 'cept more so.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 21:12:34 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:11:54 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.201154.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi PJ,

I was really amazed by his work too (and I say this at great personal risk -
Howard seems to think he has some Divine right to chastise by private email
now when he doesn't think one's posting is informative enough for the group,
so beware!).

I would dearly love to hear the report back from the artist on how he does
this kind of work.  I took a close-up look at the piece, I think it was
called Winter Trees or something like that, and I'm at a loss as to how he
did that but I love the look.  And the bamboo was incredible too.  Does
anyone else on this list do that kind of work?  Anyone care to share the
techniques used?

Susie
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 22:45:24 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:44:48 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.214448.0>
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<<  Elaine & Howard Rubin >>

Regarding the above - pardon my intrusion  - but what is happening to this
group that we have to insult people to the point that they leave us and with
them take their knowledge and unselfish input.  I, for one, have been
thankful for Howard's expertise and am sorry to see him leave.  We all, as
artists, have our quirks.  Can't we refrain from commenting upon them?
 Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 23:13:10 1997
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>,
Subject: Re: ultimate foiling machine
Summary: Authenticated sender is <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:18:12 +0000
Message-ID: <m0wI6uS-0000gAC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

On 16 Apr 97, len alcamo wrote:
 
> >    Anyway, I think the crap will be culled from the truely useful
> >    by the
> test
> > of time.
> > 
> Not if Joe Salesman has  got anything to say about it

Joe salesman will sell a lot of crap, but the test of time means that 
the crap will go and the rest will stay. I have the grinder, the 
foiler, the fancy cutter. I'm moving from hobbyiest to selling, and I 
like the time saving aspects. I get the feeling that there is a 
meditation involved in cutting glass, and shaping it, and putting it 
together in pleasing patterns. The meditation is there, whether the 
gadgets make it easier, or the skill comes the hard way. I find also, 
that I am using some of the gadgets less, as I learn the ways of 
glass.

Crap is crap, and even the best salesman can only sell it for so 
long




Myrddn
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 23:15:35 1997
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: KrissyMar@aol.com,
Subject: Re: "gizmos"
Summary: Authenticated sender is <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:20:47 +0000
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On 16 Apr 97, KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:

> I have used a beech wooden spoon for years as a fid!!!! I just
> bought the genuine article but prefer the spoon, and besides, I can
> swat the kids as they go by, too!!    :) 

I use tongue depressors for a fid. It is cheap since my  best brother 
is a nurse, and they do a good job.
Myrddn
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 23:18:55 1997
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From: "Myrddn" <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
To: "Kenny Raby" <kraby@pacbell.net>,
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas/Milk of human kindness
Summary: Authenticated sender is <exotic@mail.lobo.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:23:56 +0000
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On 16 Apr 97, Kenny Raby wrote:

> I must disagree here.  I've found very few non-Macintosh readers
> which can decode BinHex.
> 
> The attachment was sent in UUEncode which most readers I've used
> decode quite well.
> 
> Mime is the new standard and I would have to say it is probably the
> best choice for cross-platform use.  Some older readers I've used
> don't support it but most newer ones do.
Pegasus and Eudora both  have uudecode and binhex options. I have 
tried several times to get the UUdecode to work, and it doesn't seem 
to. But many non-mac programs have uudecode available.  
Blessed Be

Myrddn
Bring your heart when you come, and they will come!

Nothing happens by chance. All is serendipity!


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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 23:40:49 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: foiling machines
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:40:23 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.224023.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Joyce - I may have been one of the people Glasschic referred to, as I believe
I've spoken with her on another board.  I have the Diegel and find it most
satisfactory.  Price is rarely an issue when it comes to doing good work, be
it a machine or a person.  I do concur with others about not permanently
mounting any of these machines.  I use mine mostly in front of the TV.
 Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 17 23:41:13 1997
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From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "gizmos"
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:44:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr17.204459.0>
References: <<m0wI6ww-0000j2C@daver.bungi.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

> > I have used a beech wooden spoon for years as a fid!!!! 
> 
> I use tongue depressors for a fid. 

Thanks!  Now I don't feel quite so bad admitting to using spring-loaded
wooden clothes pins.  I bought a bag of 50 when I first started working
with glass (nearly 11 years ago), removed the springs (put these in my
garden to drive the cutworms nuts) and still have many left.

Shirley and her tomato plants
Grapeland, Tx.
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 05:16:05 1997
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	id m0wICZl-00015Ta; Fri, 18 Apr 97 05:15 PDT
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: foiling machines
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:15:59 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970418081558.006a75fc@mail.bright.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 02:40 AM 4/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Joyce - I may have been one of the people Glasschic referred to, as I believe
>I've spoken with her on another board.  I have the Diegel and find it most
>satisfactory.  Price is rarely an issue when it comes to doing good work, be
>it a machine or a person.  I do concur with others about not permanently
>mounting any of these machines.  I use mine mostly in front of the TV.
> Barbara

Thank you!  I do so appreciate people with an opinion of their own!  I'm
sure the Diegel is a very good machine, and I appreciate people telling
others what they do and don't like about equipments, glass, and other
stained glass paraphernalia, instead of quoting people we can't ask
questions to and get feedback from.

Joyce

I AM slowly getting all the patterns to Dave Rand at Bungi.com site, now
it's up to him how soon they are posted so we have access to them.  Please
keep the patterns coming!

	Garden of Glass
	501 N. Madriver St.
	Bellefontaine, OH 43311 
	
or email joyce@mail.bright.net

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 05:23:22 1997
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From: Stephanie Conover <s.s.conover@larc.nasa.gov>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:22:59 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970418082249.09e71776@express.larc.nasa.gov>
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please remove me from your mailing list!enjoy!

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 06:09:13 1997
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From: Reitmann <oddjob@scc.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: burnishing tools/gizmos
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:07:27 -0500
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4BCF.98AB2E00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I use wodden orange sticks. The kind used in manicuring fingernails, =
They work great.The wood is very smooth and they have different shapes =
on the ends. One pointed, the other beveled off straight. Works great =
for those hard to foil tight curves.The best part, they are inexpensive. =
After working with them awhile they develope a grove that fits right on =
the edge of the glass.

PS. Spring finally came to Minnesota ! The tulips came up and then froze =
due to a hard frost.So no Spring flowers, just overflowing river banks =
and record floods!
Sue Reitman
 Artistry In Glass
Shorewood, MN


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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4BCF.98AB2E00--

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 06:34:47 1997
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	id m0wIDo2-0000lUa; Fri, 18 Apr 97 06:34 PDT
X-Path: ou.edu!dfdavis
From: Denise F Davis-1 <dfdavis@ou.edu>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:34:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.33418.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

pj said:


>great work but there are some cuts in his
>work that are impossible!!!!!   From what his page says he uses alot of
>layering.  But doesn't usepainting techiniques

I was thinking he used sandblasting (leaf veins, etc.) and a glass saw
maybe.   I have never used a saw, so I don't know if this kind of cut is
possible.  I only know I couldn't do those cuts by hand (wish I could).

The moon is still hard to figure...unless it is blasted, also.  I see no
lead lines around the moon.  To layer, wouldn't you still need a lead
line?  And did you notice the appearance of movement in the owl's wings?
 

However he accomplished it, his work is just beautiful.

Denise  
>
>
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 06:57:29 1997
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From: Martin Streng <mstreng@cenebank.nl>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:55:59 +0200
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970418135559.0068d128@solair1.inter.nl.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Unbelievable.

Martin Streng, an absolute beginner. 

At 15:39 17-04-97 -0500, you wrote:
>I am new to this list, so I apologize if I am giving old information.  I
>came across a web site with wonderful foiled panels.  
>
>Try:   http://www.servtech.com/public/rnoddy/
>
>>Denise
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 06:57:33 1997
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From: Martin Streng <mstreng@cenebank.nl>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:55:57 +0200
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970418135557.0066bd64@solair1.inter.nl.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Unbelievable.

Martin Streng, an absolute beginner. 

At 15:39 17-04-97 -0500, you wrote:
>I am new to this list, so I apologize if I am giving old information.  I
>came across a web site with wonderful foiled panels.  
>
>Try:   http://www.servtech.com/public/rnoddy/
>
>>Denise
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 07:02:10 1997
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From: "Lerner, Frank M (NM75)" <frank.lerner@das.honeywell.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: "gizmos"
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:01:51 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.2151.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi.  There is no substitute for a multi-functional tool!

Especially if you have kids!

>----------
>From: 	Myrddn[SMTP:exotic@mail.lobo.net]
>Sent: 	Thursday, April 17, 1997 6:20PM
>To: 	KrissyMar@aol.com
>Subject: 	Re: "gizmos"
>
>On 16 Apr 97, KrissyMar@aol.com wrote:
>
>> I have used a beech wooden spoon for years as a fid!!!! I just
>> bought the genuine article but prefer the spoon, and besides, I can
>> swat the kids as they go by, too!!    :) 
>
>I use tongue depressors for a fid. It is cheap since my  best brother 
>is a nurse, and they do a good job.
>Myrddn
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 07:14:46 1997
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead v's foil
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:12:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.61256.0>
References: <<199704172350.JAA05250@chris.acay.com.au>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

john stout wrote:
> 
> i guess that's about right. but it depends what your strongest business
> strength is. like i never use lead. and i know someone who works just in
> lead. but i guess overall, alot of the more itricate projects are done
> in foil.
> 
> Hello
> 
> I am a lead worker.   I find one big problem is that the large majority of
> pattern books and patterns use foil.
> 
> This is a problem for me because I don't like making up my own patterns or
> designing my own.
> 
> How did they used to manage (I have seen some interesting restoration
> projects of very intricate windows) with lead before copper foiling.
> 
> Rosie.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

when there was'nt any foil, the pieces were basically flat, without alot
of detail, as far as i know.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 07:19:47 1997
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	id m0wIEVA-00006La; Fri, 18 Apr 97 07:19 PDT
X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 07:18:57 PDT
Message-ID: <m0wIEV7-0000iiC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "Re: Check This Out" on Apr 18,  0:11, SusieHUs@aol.com writes:]

> I was really amazed by his work too (and I say this at great personal risk -
> Howard seems to think he has some Divine right to chastise by private email
> now when he doesn't think one's posting is informative enough for the group,
> so beware!).

Your personal risk is over....Howard has unsubscribed from this list...:^(
I do hope everyone will Please stick to the stained glass topic and send
email personally when it's appropriate.  We've lost a valuable resource
again!
Also any subscription changes Please send to glass-request@bungi.com

Thanks!


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 07:22:52 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:20:59 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.62059.0>
References: <<l03020700af7c6a4793e8@[198.28.38.107]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

melinton@alison.sbc.edu wrote:
> 
> PJ wrote:
> >Thank for sharing this with us...great work but there are some cuts in his
> >work that are impossible!!!!!   From what his page says he uses alot of
> >layering.  But doesn't usepainting techiniques.  I am amazed..  I need to
> >ask this fellow some questions.
> 
> Hey PJ--
> Could you ask him for the group? Like a representative? I want to ask how
> he got those moons in and how he did the leaf detail since he said it isn't
> painting. But if you ask how he did this and those impossible cuts you
> could tell us all without him being bothered multiple times by the
> Bungians. Please and thank you--
> --Liz
> 
> You only need two things in life;
> WD-40 to make things go faster & duct tape to make them stop.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the leaves in the bamboo, look like overlays. the moon is either a piece
of white stipple under the glass. or maybe the glass is flashed and
sandblasted. well it's a guess, i guess we'll have to find out the real
answer.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 07:24:08 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wIEZo-0000mfa; Fri, 18 Apr 97 07:23 PDT
X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: burnishing tools/gizmos
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:18:50 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970412070600.12bffde8@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>
>I use wodden orange sticks. The kind used in manicuring fingernails, =
>They work great.The wood is very smooth and they have different shapes =
>on

Well I found a metal handle (round) from an old exacto knife to do the
trick!  Meg
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 07:44:06 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:43:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.64326.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4BE5.5964BF20
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

the leaves in the bamboo, look like overlays. the moon is either a piece
of white stipple under the glass. or maybe the glass is flashed and
sandblasted. well it's a guess, i guess we'll have to find out the real
answer.

---Mike Savad

I agree, the leaves look like overlay but I have another idea for the =
moon. Could the entire panel be two complete layers with the moon done =
with opaque white in the back layer surrounded by clear with no leading =
except where the front layer would conceal it. It wouldnt' be very neat =
from  the back but the affect from the front might work. Now, how he =
does the flapping of the owl's wings...
that's another mystery.=20

Linda
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4BE5.5964BF20
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4BE5.5964BF20--

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 07:44:07 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:42:21 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.64221.0>
References: <<199704180034.UAA29218@water.waterw.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

pj friend wrote:
> 
> >--Liz
> I sent an email to the artist and asked a few questions.  I will forward any
> reply I get to the group.
> 
> Has anyone else checked out this site.  I am intersted in any comments on
> the work.
> 
> Also the backgrounds are almost all the same.  Really strange.
> 
> my best,
> pj
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah he has some pretty neat stuff, i stuck him on my link list.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 07:50:11 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      RE: "gizmos"
Date:         Fri, 18 Apr 97 10:48:07 EDT
Message-ID:   <970418.104932.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<1997Apr18.2151.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

My favorite fid is an old hardwood chopstick.  i used to use the odd
TinkerToy, but since my youngest is now 16, I don't often find them
laying around anymore!

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 07:50:43 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:49:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.6495.0>
References: <<1997Apr17.201154.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi PJ,
> 
> I was really amazed by his work too (and I say this at great personal risk -
> Howard seems to think he has some Divine right to chastise by private email
> now when he doesn't think one's posting is informative enough for the group,
> so beware!).
> 
> I would dearly love to hear the report back from the artist on how he does
> this kind of work.  I took a close-up look at the piece, I think it was
> called Winter Trees or something like that, and I'm at a loss as to how he
> did that but I love the look.  And the bamboo was incredible too.  Does
> anyone else on this list do that kind of work?  Anyone care to share the
> techniques used?
> 
> Susie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i have to agree with the howard thing, it's like he thinks he's the
stained glass god. you have to pry information out of him, he does'nt
ever seem to share, he only says how great his lamps are. this is what,
about the 2nd or 3rd time he took himself off the list. does he think
everyone's going to talk strictly about stained glass? in a normal
conversation, things always stray. i personally don't care if he reads
this or not...

oh yeah, i forget who posted the site, i was wondering how you found
it?  every so often i hit the search engines, trying out new ones, and
new keywords, which engine/keywords did you use?

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 07:54:33 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:52:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.65249.0>
References: <<1997Apr17.214448.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> <<  Elaine & Howard Rubin >>
> 
> Regarding the above - pardon my intrusion  - but what is happening to this
> group that we have to insult people to the point that they leave us and with
> them take their knowledge and unselfish input.  I, for one, have been
> thankful for Howard's expertise and am sorry to see him leave.  We all, as
> artists, have our quirks.  Can't we refrain from commenting upon them?
>  Barbara
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


no, not really, he left (i think), because of some of the longer quote
lines, and i think more, because the off topic posts; which really
were'nt that many.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 07:58:50 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: burnishing tools/gizmos
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:57:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.6570.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.3727.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Reitmann wrote:
> 
> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4BCF.98AB2E00
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> I use wodden orange sticks. The kind used in manicuring fingernails, =
> They work great.The wood is very smooth and they have different shapes =
> on the ends. One pointed, the other beveled off straight. Works great =
> for those hard to foil tight curves.The best part, they are inexpensive. =
> After working with them awhile they develope a grove that fits right on =
> the edge of the glass.
> 
> PS. Spring finally came to Minnesota ! The tulips came up and then froze =
> due to a hard frost.So no Spring flowers, just overflowing river banks =
> and record floods!
> Sue Reitman
>  Artistry In Glass
> Shorewood, MN
> 

they don't break due to the pressure? i use a 1/4" dowl, run it through
a pencil sharpener, then round off the other end. lasts for a while,
point goes down, then re-sharped it. i can get about a dozen fids from
one length of dowel.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 08:01:46 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:00:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.702.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.33418.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Denise F Davis-1 wrote:
> 
> pj said:
> 
> >great work but there are some cuts in his
> >work that are impossible!!!!!   From what his page says he uses alot of
> >layering.  But doesn't usepainting techiniques
> 
> I was thinking he used sandblasting (leaf veins, etc.) and a glass saw
> maybe.   I have never used a saw, so I don't know if this kind of cut is
> possible.  I only know I couldn't do those cuts by hand (wish I could).
> 
> The moon is still hard to figure...unless it is blasted, also.  I see no
> lead lines around the moon.  To layer, wouldn't you still need a lead
> line?  And did you notice the appearance of movement in the owl's wings?
> 
> 
> However he accomplished it, his work is just beautiful.
> 
> Denise
> >
> >
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well a saw would work, but it would be real difficult to foil, and there
would still be the stress point there. the moon could be glass, glued
on. he used wood and bark on some of his pieces, a pretty neat idea,
though probably harder to clean. so they must have been attached in a
simaler way. any hoo..., i'll be photo re-touching them, and i'll see if
i can pull out any secrets.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 08:04:49 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:03:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.730.0>
References: <<m0wIEV7-0000iiC@daver.bungi.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Glenna Rand wrote:
> 
> [In the message entitled "Re: Check This Out" on Apr 18,  0:11, SusieHUs@aol.com writes:]
> 
> > I was really amazed by his work too (and I say this at great personal risk -
> > Howard seems to think he has some Divine right to chastise by private email
> > now when he doesn't think one's posting is informative enough for the group,
> > so beware!).
> 
> Your personal risk is over....Howard has unsubscribed from this list...:^(
> I do hope everyone will Please stick to the stained glass topic and send
> email personally when it's appropriate.  We've lost a valuable resource
> again!
> Also any subscription changes Please send to glass-request@bungi.com
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

ahh, you don't have to worry, in about 3-4 months he'll cool down, come
back on, stay for about the same amount of time, go off, etc, etc, etc.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 08:11:38 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:09:48 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.7948.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.64326.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4BE5.5964BF20
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> the leaves in the bamboo, look like overlays. the moon is either a piece
> of white stipple under the glass. or maybe the glass is flashed and
> sandblasted. well it's a guess, i guess we'll have to find out the real
> answer.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> I agree, the leaves look like overlay but I have another idea for the =
> moon. Could the entire panel be two complete layers with the moon done =
> with opaque white in the back layer surrounded by clear with no leading =
> except where the front layer would conceal it. It wouldnt' be very neat =
> from  the back but the affect from the front might work. Now, how he =
> does the flapping of the owl's wings...
> that's another mystery.=20
> 
> Linda
> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4BE5.5964BF20
> Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> 


well, other theory's for the moon would be these:

1. it could be fused, but as a seperate layer, so he would'nt have to
line up moon pieces. 

2. he could have another layer of blue behind it, with a moon cut out,
so when the light goes through it would be lighter there.

it's set in a door, so it can't be too fancy.


the wings look like an underlay, either painted, or maybe foil on glass,
tined, patinaed, then underlayed, using clear.

in any case, if any of these are right or wrong, it gives use new ideas
to think about.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 08:12:26 1997
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X-Path: ou.edu!dfdavis
From: Denise F Davis-1 <dfdavis@ou.edu>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:11:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.51154.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike wrote:
>
>oh yeah, i forget who posted the site, i was wondering how you found
>it?  every so often i hit the search engines, trying out new ones, and
>new keywords, which engine/keywords did you use?
>
I believe I used Infoseek to search and then clicked on the "Related
Sites -- Stained Glass".  Maybe it is a fairly new site, as I also do a
search periodically to find anything different.

Denise

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 08:35:19 1997
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X-Path: busprod.com!artist
From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Recognize This???
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:38:29 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970418103829.006898ec@busprod.com>
References: <<1997Apr16.172641.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

While in Phoenix, AZ, I found some glass in a small studio/shop that I
would love to obtain somewhere. Problem is, the owner of the shop told me
it was from a europian manufacturer and they don't distribute to the U.S>
any longer. The only info he had on it was that it was called "ERC 1.5" I
have no idea what country it's even made in!

The glass is rather thick...clear with swirls of blue and green...sort of
like a baroque glass and transparent.

Has anyone ever heard of this? I bought all they had at the time and it
makes great fairy wings!
LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 08:48:44 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Address of site discussed?
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 10:52:59 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.175259.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

What was the address of the site you are discussing and wondering about =
technique?

I tried http://www.servtech.com/public/moddy and received an error messag=
e that there was no URL of public/moddy on that server.  

Can someone please send me the address?  You all have me very curious and=
 would like to take a look at this site.

	Dawn

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 08:52:55 1997
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From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:01:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.6131.0>
References: <<1997Apr17.201154.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi PJ,
> 
> I was really amazed by his work too 

Good morning!  I, too was astonished at his panels!  I did a quickie
e-mail to him of "wowness" and asked a couple of questions.  If he
responds I'll share the info.  Linn
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 08:56:44 1997
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From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:02:31 -0500
Message-ID: <199704181555.KAA12499@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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----------
> 
> Unbelievable.
> 
> Martin Streng, an absolute beginner. 
> 

A bit of a humbling experience for most of us I'm sure. Makes you want to
toss your cutter in the trash and take up finger painting. 

I will offer an observation though, there are glass artists and artists
working in glass I suggest that our friend belongs to the latter group and
that being the case will utilize any and all possible techniques to realize
his vision.  He has my respect for not taking the easy way out by using
paint thus allowing the highest level of light transmission to come into
play. He certainly can be considered a master of this style of work.

>From the pics it's hard to tell what techniques he has used in some areas, 
but there appears to some free floating plating going on  if so then he
must have done some fusing or glueing?


I wonder if he needs an agent?

Len

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 08:58:56 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Address of site discussed?
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:02:14 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970418110214.0068a394@busprod.com>
References: <<1997Apr18.175259.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>What was the address of the site you are discussing and wondering about 
>technique?
>I tried http://www.servtech.com/public/moddy and received an error 

Dawn...
try this:
<http://www.servtech.com/public/rnoddy/index.html>

LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 09:02:09 1997
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From: SUGR5@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Address of site discussed?
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:01:29 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.8129.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>What was the address of the site you are discussing and wondering about =
>technique?

> I tried http://www.servtech.com/public/moddy and received an error messag=
>e that there was no URL of public/moddy on that server.  

>Can someone please send me the address?  You all have me very curious and=
 >would like to take a look at this site.

	Dawn

http://www.servtech.com/public/RNoddy      Don't capatilize the r and n    I
just did that to show you it wasn't a M
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 09:06:47 1997
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From: melinton@alison.sbc.edu
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Address of site discussed?
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:59:23 -0400
Message-ID: <l03020700af7d493c4ef7@[198.28.38.107]>
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>What was the address of the site you are discussing and wondering about =
>technique?
>
>I tried http://www.servtech.com/public/moddy and received an error messag=
>e that there was no URL of public/moddy on that server.
>
>Can someone please send me the address?  You all have me very curious and=
> would like to take a look at this site.
>
>	Dawn

Dawn the address ends with rnoddy--not moddy. Use copy and paste for
URLs--it'll save you typing time and goofs like this. :)
--Liz

You only need two things in life;
WD-40 to make things go faster & duct tape to make them stop.


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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 09:23:22 1997
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From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Recognize This???
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:28:07 -0500
Message-ID: <199704181620.LAA13776@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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----------
> From: LJ Maas <artist@busprod.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Recognize This???
> Date: Friday, April 18, 1997 10:38 AM
> 
> While in Phoenix, AZ, I found some glass in a small studio/shop that I
> would love to obtain somewhere. Problem is, the owner of the shop told me
> it was from a europian manufacturer and they don't distribute to the U.S>
> any longer. The only info he had on it was that it was called "ERC 1.5" I
> have no idea what country it's even made in!
> 
> The glass is rather thick...clear with swirls of blue and green...sort of
> like a baroque glass and transparent.
> 
> Has anyone ever heard of this? I bought all they had at the time and it
> makes great fairy wings!


Hi,

Sounds like it might be Hartley Wood  which is an English flashed antique 
looks like a streaky reamy. Blue and green over clear is one of their most
popular patterns. They have several others such as blue over clear, blue
over amber, purple and amber over clear etc. Very expensive, generally used
for specialized detail work. I heard that they are out of business and/or
don't distribute in US anymore.

Maybe Elisabeth or another UK person has more info.

Len

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 09:29:11 1997
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From: "last name: Anthony" <panthony@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Finger paints?
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:25:03 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.8253.0>
References: <<199704181555.KAA12499@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
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len alcamo wrote:

> A bit of a humbling experience for most of us I'm sure. Makes you want to
> toss your cutter in the trash and take up finger painting.
> 
> I will offer an observation though, there are glass artists and artists
> working in glass I suggest that our friend belongs to the latter group and
> that being the case will utilize any and all possible techniques to realize
> his vision.  He has my respect for not taking the easy way out by using
> paint thus allowing the highest level of light transmission to come into
> play. 
<snip>
> Len

Len, this is so unlike you that I'm driven to stop lurking and respond
to the group! To suggest that you should give up glass work just because
you found someone whose work you think is great!?! tsk, tsk.  And then
the painting slam.... hmmmm, I have to disagree. Fine glass painters are
not, IMHO, taking the "easy way out" but using a very
difficult-to-master technique to enhance the beauty of the design. And
they work WITH the light, not work to obscure it. Have you seen much of
Albinus Elskius' work? 
	Please don't get those finger paints out yet!
	--SB Anthony
p.s. In response to your lead vs foil survey, I work in lead and foil --
prefer lead, but tend to design such busy pieces that I resort to foil
for sanity's sake.
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 11:06:49 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Finger paints?
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:04:41 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <199704181804.NAA03302@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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At 12:25 PM 4/18/97 -0400, last name: Anthony wrote:
>len alcamo wrote:
>
>> A bit of a humbling experience for most of us I'm sure. Makes you want to
>> toss your cutter in the trash and take up finger painting.
>> 
>> I will offer an observation though, there are glass artists and artists
>> working in glass I suggest that our friend belongs to the latter group and
>> that being the case will utilize any and all possible techniques to realize
>> his vision.  He has my respect for not taking the easy way out by using
>> paint thus allowing the highest level of light transmission to come into
>> play. 
><snip>
>> Len
>
>Len, this is so unlike you that I'm driven to stop lurking and respond
>to the group! To suggest that you should give up glass work just because
>you found someone whose work you think is great!?! tsk, tsk.

Geez! can't a guy have any fun around here anymore?

Let me rephrase that comment just for the record
A bit of a humbling experience makes you want to toss your cutter and take
up _______ 
fill in blank with favorite mundane alternative  ;-)  ;-)

That's my standard line when I'm impressed :-)


  And then
>the painting slam.... hmmmm, I have to disagree. Fine glass painters are
>not, IMHO, taking the "easy way out" but using a very
>difficult-to-master technique

Agree completely


 to enhance the beauty of the design. And
>they work WITH the light, not work to obscure it. Have you seen much of
>Albinus Elskius' work?

Maybe so but from strictly a historical perspective painted glass
specifically the excesses of the enamel painters was responsible for the
near demise of the art of s.g. ( Albert, Help!)

if our newly discovered icon felt it important to emphasize the fact that he
limited his use of paint to acheive his desired effects then he must also
feel that stippling, enameling, silver staining whatever, do not meet his
criteria or do I in my work. IMHO the brushed line work of the medievel
windows is as far as painting on glass ever needed to develope. Any thing
more then that is just painting on glass,a different art form not stained
glass.   

I don't now Albinus Elksius is there anything on the web?


 No more lurking for you I hope :-)

Love and Peace

Len

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 11:27:12 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:26:08 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704181826.OAA23964@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Len wrote,>

<<. Makes you want to
>toss your cutter in the trash and take up finger painting>>

Nope not tossing any cutters away....just a real curiousity on this one..




I am still waiting to hear if he responds to me email.

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 12:07:44 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Bob Oddy's web site
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 14:11:52 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.211152.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to the help of some of you, I was able to take a look at Mr.
Oddy's website and gape in awe with my mouth  open.  His work is
 inspiring and motivating.  I want to go there, get to that point
of artistic expression and skill!!!  He has evidently mastered so many
of the components that go into the art.  It's beautiful to see it all com=
e
together like that.

My question for the group is this, "Can this type of talent be developed,=
 or is it one of those things that you either have it or you 
don't?"  I realize there are many facets of stained glass that must be =

practiced  in order to achieve the skill level.  But, is this type
of work only possible for those with a true artistic talent?  Can the
elements that make up his pieces be learned?  Do these sound like
stupid questions?  I hope not.  I was just so motivated by what I saw
and would love to get even close to that point and wondered if it is
possible for us mere mortals.

I also have many questions about the techniques he used and would
love the opportunity to see some of his pieces in person.  Because I
am such a beginner I won't bore everyone with all the questions I
have, except to ask, "How do you incorporate wood and bark pieces
in stained glass?"

Perhaps Mr. Oddy could be persuaded to join our discussion here
and give us some details about the construction of his pieces.  Could
our representative that was going to send him the questions advise
him of our group and see if he's interested?  (Kind of like Dorothy
and Toto waiting in the wings while the TinMan asks for an audience
with "The Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz"!  I would love to know if
he had any pieces in any public buildings that could be viewed.

Dawn

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 12:45:49 1997
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From: Laura Bettingen <labette@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: SORRY: was RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:05:32 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.3532.0>
References: <<01BC4B57.9CF3E9C0@a12a158.neo.lrun.com>>
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I would also like Linda’s attachment sent as private e-mail, if it is no
problem to you Linda. Thanks, Laura

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 14:22:53 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Recognize This???
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:20:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.132031.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970418103829.006898ec@busprod.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

LJ Maas wrote:
> 
> While in Phoenix, AZ, I found some glass in a small studio/shop that I
> would love to obtain somewhere. Problem is, the owner of the shop told me
> it was from a europian manufacturer and they don't distribute to the U.S>
> any longer. The only info he had on it was that it was called "ERC 1.5" I
> have no idea what country it's even made in!
> 
> The glass is rather thick...clear with swirls of blue and green...sort of
> like a baroque glass and transparent.
> 
> Has anyone ever heard of this? I bought all they had at the time and it
> makes great fairy wings!
> LJ
>   ****************************************************************
> LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
> ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
> "Unique Stained Glass Creations"
> <http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>
> 
> OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
> <http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it sounds like hand blown antique. i have a thick purple boroque glass,
he called it "english boroque" the edge looks like half clear, 1/2 to
1/4 purple. the glass is about 3/16" thick, and resembles flash glass in
some cases. maybe your glass is simaler.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 14:25:08 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Address of site discussed?
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:22:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.132213.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.175259.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn wrote:
> 
> What was the address of the site you are discussing and wondering about =
> technique?
> 
> I tried http://www.servtech.com/public/moddy and received an error messag=
> e that there was no URL of public/moddy on that server.
> 
> Can someone please send me the address?  You all have me very curious and=
>  would like to take a look at this site.
> 
>         Dawn
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah it's http://www.servtech.com/public/rnoddy/  ahh it's rnoddy, not
moddy...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 14:33:51 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bob Oddy's web site
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:31:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.133156.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.211152.0>>
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Dawn wrote:
> 
> Thanks to the help of some of you, I was able to take a look at Mr.
> Oddy's website and gape in awe with my mouth  open.  His work is
>  inspiring and motivating.  I want to go there, get to that point
> of artistic expression and skill!!!  He has evidently mastered so many
> of the components that go into the art.  It's beautiful to see it all com=
> e
> together like that.
> 
> My question for the group is this, "Can this type of talent be developed,=
>  or is it one of those things that you either have it or you
> don't?"  I realize there are many facets of stained glass that must be =
> 
> practiced  in order to achieve the skill level.  But, is this type
> of work only possible for those with a true artistic talent?  Can the
> elements that make up his pieces be learned?  Do these sound like
> stupid questions?  I hope not.  I was just so motivated by what I saw
> and would love to get even close to that point and wondered if it is
> possible for us mere mortals.
> 
> I also have many questions about the techniques he used and would
> love the opportunity to see some of his pieces in person.  Because I
> am such a beginner I won't bore everyone with all the questions I
> have, except to ask, "How do you incorporate wood and bark pieces
> in stained glass?"
> 
> Perhaps Mr. Oddy could be persuaded to join our discussion here
> and give us some details about the construction of his pieces.  Could
> our representative that was going to send him the questions advise
> him of our group and see if he's interested?  (Kind of like Dorothy
> and Toto waiting in the wings while the TinMan asks for an audience
> with "The Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz"!  I would love to know if
> he had any pieces in any public buildings that could be viewed.
> 
> Dawn
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well some people are born with it, some people tend to lean towards
certain techniques. after a bunch of practice anyone should be able to
do it, though invisioning it is the hard part. i guess it all depends on
what inspires you. 

as for the wood, i'd have to say glue is holding it on.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 15:11:07 1997
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From: "last name: Anthony" <panthony@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Finger paints?
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:08:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.14844.0>
References: <<199704181804.NAA03302@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

sorry for longish post, group.

len alcamo wrote:
> <snip>
> 
> Maybe so but from strictly a historical perspective painted glass
> specifically the excesses of the enamel painters was responsible for the
> near demise of the art of s.g. ( Albert, Help!)
> 
> if our newly discovered icon felt it important to emphasize the fact that he
> limited his use of paint to acheive his desired effects then he must also
> feel that stippling, enameling, silver staining whatever, do not meet his
> criteria or do I in my work. IMHO the brushed line work of the medievel
> windows is as far as painting on glass ever needed to develope. Any thing
> more then that is just painting on glass,a different art form not stained
> glass.
> 
> 

O.K. O.K., Len. 
I used to hold the same opinion as you about painting. And certainly its
over-use (I'm including enamels,silverstain etc.) was probably
responsible for the near demise of leaded glass craft in the 18 and 19
century. I'll concede that glass painting can be overdone (and also
badly done). I used to think it was a cop-out, too. (and I confess to
having used it as a lazy way to get detail into a work).  Then I became
more familiar with a good craftsman who uses it and also spent some time
looking at some good work (mainly in books. I can't find Elskius
anywhere on the web yet). Some very beautiful contemporary work is being
done that uses paint and etching, etc to produce intricate layers and
textures of color in single pieces. Historically, I think that glass in
windows has almost always been painted. The earliest "stained glass"
(can't remember the date, around 1000?) is the painted head of Christ
from a church in what is now Germany. And doesn't the term "stained
glass" in fact actually (originally) refer to it being painted? (as
opposed to the color of the glass)? 
	But I think what I was really reacting to was : painting is a way to
get an effect in your design and not particularly an easy way, either.
Let's just imagine  --TOTALLY HYPOTHETICALLY!!!--- that Oddy gets his
moving bird wing effect by plating glass behind his foiled piece or by
adding wire shapes behind the piece. It creates an effect -- we like it.
Why is it less honorable to create that effect with paint? 
	No question that Oddy could never create those beautiful works without
the use of many small, tedious-to-cut pieces, wonderful designs,and some
gorgeous glass. Paint can't do that. But I think paint has it's place in
modern glass work. 
	You know, in medieval days,they used to cut glass by running a red hot
iron down the line and then pouring urine on it. (that's why it had to
be painted!! those cuts weren't accurate enough to define shapes very
well <g>)
	I can point you toward some books about modern glass work if you're
interested. (being a library groupie myself)

>  No more lurking for you I hope :-)
> 
> Love and Peace
> 
> Len
Everytime I think I might stop lurking, another flame war breaks out and
I think, "ah, who needs it. I'll just stay anonymous and soak up what
there is". I've come very close to un-subscribing several times, and
then I'll learn something new and hang on a little longer.
Love and peace back at ya,
--SB
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 15:16:50 1997
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:16:20 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.141620.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well you can toss the cutter into the air...but catch it so you don't damage
the wheel, and then clean up the oil that came out and sigh...better keep my
day job.
  What an absolute joy to view, awesome,  just like the various selection of
artists on this forum....kudos to all!
  Maureen
  mosfunland@aol.com
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 15:20:35 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead v's foil
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:25:46 +0000
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> when there was'nt any foil, the pieces were basically flat, without alot
> of detail, as far as i know.

Both La Farge and Tiffany created windows fully leaded with as many 
as six layers. If by "flat" you mean they didn't build lamps that way 
(well, La Farge didn't build lamps, of course, but then neither did 
Tiffany himself), you're right. But certainly plated panels were 
common, sometimes with *more than six layers.

A few "restoration" studios have found multi-layered panels too 
difficult, it seems. Many so-called "restored" windows have simply 
never had many of the original plates re-installed. "But notice how 
much brighter the windows are!" the studio people must have told 
their clients. Perhaps that's the source of much of the "Original 
Tiffany Glass" that one often finds on offer?

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 15:21:16 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:25:46 +0000
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> no, not really, he left (i think), because of some of the longer quote
> lines, and i think more, because the off topic posts; which really
> were'nt that many.

Your three-line post was accompanied by a 23-line "signature" and a 
15-line "recap."  Perhaps Howard was more tired of that kind of 
careful craftsmanship.

A
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 15:57:34 1997
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From: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Bob Oddy's web site
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:59:57 -0100
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.175957.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



Hi, I also saw his glass panels.. they are great..  I wanted to add =
something. In Glass Patterns Quarterly/Fall 1987  they did a  Star of =
Bethlehem   Christmas panel.. The sky was dark blue, with the Christmas =
star showing  a shining star.. It was plated with 3 layers of glass...  =
The first layer was dark blue with  a drilled star.. the second or =
center layer was solid white to high light the wholes drilled in the =
first, and third layer to highlight  the star was medium blue.. with the =
holes  drilled in the main star to allow light to pass through..=20
So maybe check out this issue.. I have, but I  do not know about the =
copyright laws to send this issue to you. I know that some back issues =
of Glass Patterns  can be bought through them. It is pretty neat to see =
this star, and I think it is  some of the technique used. =20


----------
From:  Dawn <dawnm@sullivan.fidnet.com>
Sent:  Friday, April 18, 1997 2:12 PM
To:  glass@bungi.com
Subject:  Bob Oddy's web site

Thanks to the help of some of you, I was able to take a look at Mr.
Oddy's website and gape in awe with my mouth  open.  His work is
 inspiring and motivating.  I want to go there, get to that point
of artistic expression and skill!!!  He has evidently mastered so many
of the components that go into the art.  It's beautiful to see it all =
com=3D
e
together like that.

My question for the group is this, "Can this type of talent be =
developed,=3D
 or is it one of those things that you either have it or you=20
don't?"  I realize there are many facets of stained glass that must be =
=3D

practiced  in order to achieve the skill level.  But, is this type
of work only possible for those with a true artistic talent?  Can the
elements that make up his pieces be learned?  Do these sound like
stupid questions?  I hope not.  I was just so motivated by what I saw
and would love to get even close to that point and wondered if it is
possible for us mere mortals.

I also have many questions about the techniques he used and would
love the opportunity to see some of his pieces in person.  Because I
am such a beginner I won't bore everyone with all the questions I
have, except to ask, "How do you incorporate wood and bark pieces
in stained glass?"

Perhaps Mr. Oddy could be persuaded to join our discussion here
and give us some details about the construction of his pieces.  Could
our representative that was going to send him the questions advise
him of our group and see if he's interested?  (Kind of like Dorothy
and Toto waiting in the wings while the TinMan asks for an audience
with "The Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz"!  I would love to know if
he had any pieces in any public buildings that could be viewed.

Dawn

----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 16:21:56 1997
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From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead v's foil
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:14:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.15142.0>
References: <<199704172350.JAA05250@chris.acay.com.au>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Okay... here is the stupid question... What is the difference between a
foil
and a lead pattern other then the thickness of line?  I always used a
light table
and eyeballed where I should cut, taking into account the line
thickness.  Sometimes
cutting on the lines edge, sometimes approx. 1/16" to the side of the
line.  The only
problem I had was if the lines were too thick, if so I just drew over
the lines with a
"sharpie".

(A lead worker whithout a lot of gizmos and gadgets)

Charles Warner
http://www.warner-criv.com/

>
> I am a lead worker.   I find one big problem is that the large
> majority of
> pattern books and patterns use foil.
>
> This is a problem for me because I don't like making up my own
> patterns or
> designing my own.

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 17:21:35 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Finger paints?
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:19:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.161949.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.14844.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

last name: Anthony wrote:
> 
> sorry for longish post, group.
> 
> len alcamo wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> > Maybe so but from strictly a historical perspective painted glass
> > specifically the excesses of the enamel painters was responsible for the
> > near demise of the art of s.g. ( Albert, Help!)
> >
> > if our newly discovered icon felt it important to emphasize the fact that he
> > limited his use of paint to acheive his desired effects then he must also
> > feel that stippling, enameling, silver staining whatever, do not meet his
> > criteria or do I in my work. IMHO the brushed line work of the medievel
> > windows is as far as painting on glass ever needed to develope. Any thing
> > more then that is just painting on glass,a different art form not stained
> > glass.
> >
> >
> 
> O.K. O.K., Len.
> I used to hold the same opinion as you about painting. And certainly its
> over-use (I'm including enamels,silverstain etc.) was probably
> responsible for the near demise of leaded glass craft in the 18 and 19
> century. I'll concede that glass painting can be overdone (and also
> badly done). I used to think it was a cop-out, too. (and I confess to
> having used it as a lazy way to get detail into a work).  Then I became
> more familiar with a good craftsman who uses it and also spent some time
> looking at some good work (mainly in books. I can't find Elskius
> anywhere on the web yet). Some very beautiful contemporary work is being
> done that uses paint and etching, etc to produce intricate layers and
> textures of color in single pieces. Historically, I think that glass in
> windows has almost always been painted. The earliest "stained glass"
> (can't remember the date, around 1000?) is the painted head of Christ
> from a church in what is now Germany. And doesn't the term "stained
> glass" in fact actually (originally) refer to it being painted? (as
> opposed to the color of the glass)?
>         But I think what I was really reacting to was : painting is a way to
> get an effect in your design and not particularly an easy way, either.
> Let's just imagine  --TOTALLY HYPOTHETICALLY!!!--- that Oddy gets his
> moving bird wing effect by plating glass behind his foiled piece or by
> adding wire shapes behind the piece. It creates an effect -- we like it.
> Why is it less honorable to create that effect with paint?
>         No question that Oddy could never create those beautiful works without
> the use of many small, tedious-to-cut pieces, wonderful designs,and some
> gorgeous glass. Paint can't do that. But I think paint has it's place in
> modern glass work.
>         You know, in medieval days,they used to cut glass by running a red hot
> iron down the line and then pouring urine on it. (that's why it had to
> be painted!! those cuts weren't accurate enough to define shapes very
> well <g>)
>         I can point you toward some books about modern glass work if you're
> interested. (being a library groupie myself)
> 
> >  No more lurking for you I hope :-)
> >
> > Love and Peace
> >
> > Len
> Everytime I think I might stop lurking, another flame war breaks out and
> I think, "ah, who needs it. I'll just stay anonymous and soak up what
> there is". I've come very close to un-subscribing several times, and
> then I'll learn something new and hang on a little longer.
> Love and peace back at ya,
> --SB
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


and to add to that, reverse painting seems to be coming up now lately.
to darken an area where the glass could'nt help, for example. i don't
mind colored paints on the glass, if it helps to enhance the piece. i
personally don't like the "traditional" painting, where they put that
dark paint on it.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 17:23:05 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:21:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.162116.0>
References: <<199704182220.SAA01856@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > no, not really, he left (i think), because of some of the longer quote
> > lines, and i think more, because the off topic posts; which really
> > were'nt that many.
> 
> Your three-line post was accompanied by a 23-line "signature" and a
> 15-line "recap."  Perhaps Howard was more tired of that kind of
> careful craftsmanship.
> 
> A
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


what ever... either or...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 18:29:32 1997
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From: Reitmann <oddjob@scc.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE:burnishing tools/gizmos
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:26:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.152638.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Reitmann wrote:
> snip>
> I use wooden orange sticks. The kind used in manicuring fingernails, =
=3D
>snip>
they don't break due to the pressure?=20
---Mike Savad

Yes Mike, the manicure sticks are made of a little softer wood but when =
they wear down I just use the exacto knife to reshape. On occassion one =
will break but then sometimes it helps to have a shorter "tool".Maybe =
they wouldn't work so well for a guy as they sometimes have larger hands =
than gals do and they might be harder to hold on to. Works for me tho.
Sue Reitmann


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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 18:36:55 1997
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From: phil7 <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:36:23 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.133623.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.162116.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Am I missing a contest? Is there a contest on who can repost the most,
and say the least;) I can't believe the wasted time I've spent scrolling
down and finding a rather lackluster response, and such a long
signature.
The member who sent the nice photo certainly got her clock cleaned, but
this continues, on and on. Common sense dictates each member conform to
the list's rules on posting. Mistakes are made for certain, but we learn
and go on, only some never learn.

I'm certain my clock will be flushed, once again, for trying to limit
the extreme waste of time.

I'm not lambasting any one member, only asking consideration from all
members.

phil7



M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Albert Lewis wrote:
> >
> > > no, not really, he left (i think), because of some of the longer quote
> > > lines, and i think more, because the off topic posts; which really
> > > were'nt that many.
> >
> > Your three-line post was accompanied by a 23-line "signature" and a
> > 15-line "recap."  Perhaps Howard was more tired of that kind of
> > careful craftsmanship.
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 18:44:04 1997
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X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro
From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Atlas 'Graphics??'
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:43:48 -0700
Message-ID: <199704190043.RAA25598@mars.ark.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Howdy all--I still have a "bunch of digits" surrounding the files sent of
the atlas.
>I am running Eudora and they are sitting in my 'In' Box as I would really
like to see them.   Can some-one send me instructions on how I convert or
get to view these?
>Thanks to you in advance.....
>...Wayne

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 18:52:07 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: a stepping stone site
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 21:15:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.17156.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.133156.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

i went searching for other sites and i came across this site, that was
at least this part anyway, having to do with stepping stones. anyway
here's the link dirrectly to the site, looks like the site is still be
worked on. 

http://www.aerovisions.com/mutti/stones.html

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 19:47:04 1997
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From: "bumblebee  Stained Glass" <bumblbee@frognet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: vertical soldering 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <bumblbee@frognet.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:46:21 +0000
Message-ID: <199704190246.WAA12498@froggy.frognet.net>
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Precedence: bulk

   Hello,

   I have been asked to repair a church window and will have to do so 
in place.  The lead is in good shape but it was actually broken in 
two by a hurled stone.
   I have (in a pinch) done some rather crude soldering on a vertical 
surface.
   I was wondering if anyone out there could share any techniques 
they have learned to help facilitate this operation.   Thanks


Paul
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 20:27:47 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: George & Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: Re. Sorry
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:21:25 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.192125.0>
References: <<01BC4C27.C00638C0@dyn30cs06.usaor.net>>
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George & Gloria wrote:
> 
> Again, please, you might educate those of us that did now grow up with computers, but are lucky enough to own one, I purchased mine in 11/96.  I really understand nothing.. Had trouble with 2 e mail addresses and finally settled on one.. Thank goodness that one of my best friends has a CNA in computer education and trades off for  glass instructions
<snip>
I will tentatively make an open offer to assist anyone with learning
what makes this stuff happen. My day job deals with making computers do
something useful, so I'm used to dealing with 'newbies' and the
ex-computer phobic. If you want to email me a problem or question I will
do my best, (by remote control) to help. I've done this b-4, and have
gotten swamped. I will try to stick to a first come, first served
rotation, but if I find something that takes 2 minutes to answer, I try
t oget it out of my queue. If I don't respond right away, please be
patient, I'll try to help all I can.
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 21:33:06 1997
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X-Path: mc.net!skipm1
From: "The Moore's" <skipm1@mc.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Unsubscribe Soapbox
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:32:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.183243.0>
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A thousand apologies to everybody for the long post, but I've been
saving up for a L-O-N-G time.......

---------
"We've lost a valuable resource again!"
                    - Glenna

I've been lurking for over a year now, and I think it just might be time
to step away from the wall covering.

I subscribe to this newsgroup to have lively, humourous and serious
discussions about the art, craft and hobby of stained glass. I work
stepping stones; I work the lowly suncatchers and candle holders; I do
panels in foil; I do windows in lead; I do kaleidoscopes and have tried
my hand at panel lamps. I bought a scanner so I could transfer patterns
to the computer and trace them using Corel, then print out as many
copies as I needed to work on a project. I enjoy glass as a hobby, and
I've even made a few bucks while doing it.

I started in glass three years ago by taking one class from a small
store and quickly found that though they were more consistent than I,
they really couldn't teach me anything that hadn't already been written
about, so I started experimenting (with successes and failures) on my
own. Finding this group was cause for a significant upturn in quality
and quantity of my work. I've learned techniques to improve by skill
(just heated up some patina last night to finish off a lead F-15 for my
son; had made three stepping stones before even seeing the Tiffany
stones book) and found out about other resources on the net (some of
which even belonged to people regularly posting to the net) and when
things have gotten rough, read mail from the likes of Howard and Albert
(and others) about perservering and practice and the beauty of the art
that have pushed me right back over to the bench to try that cut one
more time. I've even been known to respond to questions -- privately,
because I didn't consider the response of general interest.

Climbing on soapbox:

But lately, it's been a royal pain to deal with the whole thing. I don't
really give a damn about how somebody's weather is doing, and the status
of their fruits and vegatables, or whether they're going to be in
Pittsburgh during July. And cruising through the posts of the
individuals who are too lazy, inconsiderate and rude to have the decency
to edit their posts and keep reasonable-length sig files is enough to
make the pope throw off the funky hat and head for the local bar
(especially when those copied and copied and copied posts are about how
the vegatable crop in Pittsburgh is being screwed up by the weather
(followed by another sig file, of course)) <forced grin>. If this were a
NEWSGROUP such things might be acceptable because I could just ignore
posts after reading the subject line (and the address of the poster),
but this is a MAIL GROUP, so everything gets dropped onto my hard disk,
like it or not (go ahead, cut this section out and tell me I don't have
to subscribe, I'd expect as much from some of the Miss Internet Manners
class clowns).

Stained glass practitioners are like any segment of society; Some are
nice, some are jerks, some are knowledgeable and some are clueless.
We're going to have to deal with that part, but one thing we should all
do is be respectful of the entire group and the individuals within.
Everybody has been asked to edit their posts and stick to the glass
topic -- by lurkers, active posters and she who provides space for the
group (Glenna). Several have stepped back and said, "Wow, I didn't think
about it" and have made the effort to edit files and send personal mail
where appropriate. Others, whose opinions and knowledge are still
valued, have chosen to fly the bird in the faces of the requesters; "I
don't have time", "it's too much trouble", "don't read it, I don't
care."

Get a clue, people.

Stepping down (relucantly) from soapbox:

Okay, let the flames begin. I deserve them and expect them. But do
everybody a favor -- respond via personal e-mail. If you can't do that,
at least have the decency not to repost this overly long piece of ^(*&
when you add your two lines of commentary.

===============

By the way, there were some questions in the past few months about how
much people were charging/seeing charged for stepping stones. Did anyone
ever come up with a comprehensive list of the responses? If not, I'll
volunteer to collect data.....

For information, the 14" round and 16" hex stones were selling in the
garden shops for $200-250 last summer (Northwest Chicago suburbs).
Childish patterns (bunnies, squirrels, flowers) of less than twenty
pieces, even. I sold some original patterns pushing fifty pieces, 14"
round for $100 each. Anybody else with real numbers???? I'll post
pictures of the originals on the web site I never get around to
finishing if there's interest (assuming anybody really read this far AND
I don't get thrown out of the group for making trouble).

Best wishes to ALL,

- Skip
skipm1@mc.net

P.S. Answers to some of your questions before you send them....

A. Yes, I did mean to be a jerk a few paragraphs back.
B. No, I'm not normally a jerk.
C. Yes, I'll try to stop.
D. No, I'm not in therapy (yet).
E. No, I didn't really want to post this, but my dog made me do it.
F. 6
G. Constantinople
H. Two unladen European swallows
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 22:10:43 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: a stepping stone site
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 01:10:13 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.211013.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike,

I liked seeing her stepping stones - haven't seen many online yet - thanks
for pointing it out.  

I thought I had seen the most expensive stone near where I live this week.  A
garden shop had a single flower on a round stone for $195.00 but the artist
on this site has them going for $225.00.  Is this the going rate for these
things?  I love them and they are quite beautiful but I would not have
guessed that anyone would buy them at those prices unless the artwork was
truly unique and detailed.  Any comments out there?  Do they sell well?

Susie
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 18 22:18:33 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Dalle de Verre, multi part Jewelry boxes, etc
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 01:14:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr18.211432.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.17156.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Another site for fantastic glass, Dalle de Verre, hand bevels, lamps,
and Mike S.  check out the jewelry boxes-They are really
wows-spectacular like yours.

http://www.powellbrosglassart.com/faceted.html
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 03:35:27 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:49:36 -0400 (EDT)
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<< Your three-line post was accompanied by a 23-line "signature" and a 
 15-line "recap."  Perhaps Howard was more tired of that kind of 
 careful craftsmanship.
  >>

As many of us are - thanks for voicing it!  Barbara

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 03:35:29 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: vertical soldering 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 05:14:52 +0000
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>    I have been asked to repair a church window and will have to do so 
> in place.  The lead is in good shape but it was actually broken in 
> two by a hurled stone.
>    I have (in a pinch) done some rather crude soldering on a vertical 
> surface.

Paul, more harm than good has been done to American windows by trying 
to restore them in place. It cannot be done well. You should really 
convince the client of this, remove the windows and work with them on 
the usual flat surface. Get Julie Sloan's "Conservation of Stained 
Glass in America" at http://aiap.com/ and absorb the proper 
philosophy toward restoration of stained glass (which is the same 
approach taken in Europe by the serious conservationists). It'll be 
the best $25 you ever spent, since she also makes it clear that true 
restoration is not only well done, but expensive. "The laborer is 
worth his hire."

A studio actually exists that travels with a tractor-trailor, studio 
setup all included, going from town to town and offering their 
services to churches, "restoring" windows in place and leaving such a 
sad state of affairs behind them where the windows are concerned that 
it's not funny. I assume that on the weekends they paint 
"re-asphalted" driveways with black paint, too.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 06:29:53 1997
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From: Rebecca Smith <rwsmith@aristotle.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: BRAVO
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 08:29:08 -0500
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970418193316.1e3f1bc8@aristotle.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BRAVO Skip. My sentiments exactly.

Rebecca (Beckie) Smith 
(rwsmith@aristotle.net)

Beware that you do not lose the 
substance by grasping at the shadow.
                .......Aesop

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 06:40:18 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "[unknown]" <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe Soapbox
Date: 19 Apr 97 09:37:00 EDT
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Message text written by "The Moore's"
>By the way, there were some questions in the past few months about how
much people were charging/seeing charged for stepping stones. Did anyone
ever come up with a comprehensive list of the responses? If not, I'll
volunteer to collect data.....<

I recently sold two of the 8 inch square stepping stones for $35 each.  Simple
patterns - one of a sun and the other of moon and stars.  BTW, the buyer was
another stained glass person.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 06:44:55 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "[unknown]" <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Re: Bob Oddy's web site
Date: 19 Apr 97 09:40:08 EDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.13408.0>
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Message text written by Dawn
>I also have many questions about the techniques he used and would
love the opportunity to see some of his pieces in person.  Because I
am such a beginner I won't bore everyone with all the questions I
have, except to ask, "How do you incorporate wood and bark pieces
in stained glass?"<

Well now, I see some technical problems incorporating wood and bark pieces into
stained glass artworks.  Primarily, how to keep the wood products from shrinkage
and loss of luster as it ages.  But, baring that, I would think you could copper
foil around the outside edges of the wood piece, and be VERY careful when
soldering to not burn the wood.  Or you might be able to saw a flat piece on the
wood and affix it to glass with some sort of glue.  But this is pure
speculation.  Guess we'll just have to wait until Mr. Oddy tells pj friend and
she lets us all know.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 06:49:28 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: vertical soldering 
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:40:07 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.13407.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 05:14 AM 4/19/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>>    I have been asked to repair a church window and will have to do so 
>> in place.  The lead is in good shape but it was actually broken in 
>> two by a hurled stone.
>>    I have (in a pinch) done some rather crude soldering on a vertical 
>> surface.
>
>Paul, more harm than good has been done to American windows by trying 
>to restore them in place. It cannot be done well. You should really 
>convince the client of this, remove the windows and work with them on 
>the usual flat surface. 

>Albert

Yes, yes, yes ........ we repair many church windows and every so often we
have to repair one that was previously "repaired in place" ...... usually by
the good-intentions of a hobbyist in the congregation ........ and we ALWAYS
pull the window out and repair it on a flat surface.  Sometimes the panels
are badly buckled and warped, but they can be flattened out by weighting
them down with buckets of water for a few days.  My advise ..... get someone
exeperienced in pulling church windows to look at this before you jump in.
Especially if the windows are old and have been exposed to the elements over
time, they are very fragile once you take them out of their frames.

If you want more than my 2cents here, we can take it up off the group.  

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 06:50:18 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: a stepping stone site
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:49:54 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.134954.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>
>I thought I had seen the most expensive stone near where I live this week.  A
>garden shop had a single flower on a round stone for $195.00 but the artist
>on this site has them going for $225.00.  Is this the going rate for these
>things?  I love them and they are quite beautiful but I would not have
>guessed that anyone would buy them at those prices unless the artwork was
>truly unique and detailed.  Any comments out there?  Do they sell well?
>
>Susie


We have made several stones for retail, but they really don't move well.  We
sell the bricks for $35, we do a 12 inch round (using an empty dry wall
compound bucket) for $65 and we sell the large 16 inch hexagon for $95.  I
know another shop across town sells the big hexagon for $150, but I know
they don't move many of them either.  I think the stones are just a lot more
fun to make for most people, so they just jump in and try it.  Must be
something about getting their hands dirty!

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 07:08:45 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: a stepping stone site
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:07:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.678.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.211013.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> I liked seeing her stepping stones - haven't seen many online yet - thanks
> for pointing it out.
> 
> I thought I had seen the most expensive stone near where I live this week.  A
> garden shop had a single flower on a round stone for $195.00 but the artist
> on this site has them going for $225.00.  Is this the going rate for these
> things?  I love them and they are quite beautiful but I would not have
> guessed that anyone would buy them at those prices unless the artwork was
> truly unique and detailed.  Any comments out there?  Do they sell well?
> 
> Susie
> ----


well i guess a good theory is, is that it's not as much art, as it's
real fancy landscape material. like a fancy tree, or an expensive brick.
hey if people want to pay that much for it...let them. though what kind
of glass was used, was it like spectrum, or artglass of some kind? i
know of one case where one guy sold them for a donation thing at some
park. i forget how much he charged, it was a brick sized piece, about 8
pieces or so, and when they payed the name was etched in the center.
which is a pretty neat idea.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 07:13:37 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Dalle de Verre, multi part Jewelry boxes, etc
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:12:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.6122.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.211432.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

leestat7 wrote:
> 
> Another site for fantastic glass, Dalle de Verre, hand bevels, lamps,
> and Mike S.  check out the jewelry boxes-They are really
> wows-spectacular like yours.
> 
> http://www.powellbrosglassart.com/faceted.html
> ----


yeah i stuck them on my links page a while back. i would probably try
one of those someday, right now though i just don't have the space for
the dragon size pieces. the lamb is pretty neat being that it's all
slumped. though in my opinion, the boxes they have are neat, but there a
little busy to look at. it's like they put every skill they knew into
it. but then again it was a small photo, so it's kind of hard to tell.
it would be nice to know how much they would charge for their boxes. i
tried to ask once but got one of those reverse answers, where they
really don't tell me anything.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 07:33:51 1997
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From: Reitmann <oddjob@scc.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:31:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.43137.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mr.Oddy's work reminds me of the work displayed in the Tiffany Museum =
located in Worth,FL. When viewing the layered work in person the effect =
is even more dramatic than a picture. Anyone visiting in that area =
should put the museum on their list of things to do!!
Part of the tour gives the history of S.G.and although I can't fouch for =
the truth behind what they said, I found this to be a resonable =
definition of how S.G. came to be.
When glass was first invented it was usually green as they were only =
using silica (sand) to make it.The "greens" varied in color because of =
impurities in the sand. In order to get color, the artists painted on =
the glass, refired in the kiln just to the melting point so the paint =
would melt into the glass, thus staining it. Therfore: Stained Glass.
The discovery of adding cobalt to make blue was the first of many which =
then gave us many additional colors.Faces,hands and other intricate =
parts were still painted as Tiffany had yet to discover the foil method =
that allowed the incorporation of detail to be done in glass.
In the early centuries the church was a powerful entity and played a =
major part in the development of the art of S.G. Especially the =
architecture of the building itself allowing the huge expanses of the =
shapes of the windows.(especially on the west sides of the structure =
that allowed the most amount of light to filter through.)
Sue
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 07:46:45 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: vertical soldering 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:53:15 +0000
Message-ID: <199704191446.KAA00215@ns.computer.net>
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> pull the window out and repair it on a flat surface.  Sometimes the panels
> are badly buckled and warped, but they can be flattened out by weighting
> them down with buckets of water for a few days.  My advise ..... get someone
> exeperienced in pulling church windows to look at this before you 
jump in.

You don't experience any glass breakage by weighing them down? Some 
studios lay the panels in large shallow baths of warm water and allow 
gravity to pull them down before disassembly, but I'd worry about 
putting heavy buckets right on the glass, lest some of the glass 
break.

As for hobbyists in the congregation, sure ... that happens and in a 
way I can see an excuse for that, since the windows are theirs, the 
congregation's. But for any studio or individual to represent 
themselves as competent restorers then to do some of the things I've 
seen is IMHO unforgivable. Most recently, a small church in a very 
nice community (read 'wealthy') is currently having its windows 
restored, every window requiring extensive reworking because 1) the 
previous "restorer" had obviously made no rubbings and so had no idea 
how the window went back together -- the images were a real 
hodge-podge, 2) they hadn't measured the frames, which weren't 
square, so when they reinstalled, they had to Cut! As! Much! As! Two! 
Inches! Off! The! Perimeter! Of! The! Glass! To! Make! It! Fit!! -- 
tossing the original glass away apparently, 3) because these 
'restorers' hadn't a clue and the panels weren't made for the frames 
they'd come out of, they'd had to *force them back into place, even 
after all that cutting, creating a number of stress breaks throughout 
the panels, etc., etc.

One would merely sigh, if it weren't that the historical/cultural 
losses are unrecoverable.  It's a crime and, of course, the church 
has no record of who the 'restorer(s)' were.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 07:53:52 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Finger paints?
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:51:38 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <199704191451.JAA14174@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


. Some very beautiful contemporary work is being
>done that uses paint and etching, etc to produce intricate layers and
>textures of color in single pieces.

SB my friend, your very convincing, but I'm going to stick with my own
personal feelings that painting glass to modulate color and texture puts the
resultant work in a separate catagory ... glass as a canvas for artistic
expression. Splitting hairs comment of the day :-) 

>	But I think what I was really reacting to was : 
>Why is it less honorable to create that effect with paint? 

EXACTLY! Why indeed? I hope we can be party to his thinking on that.

>	No question that Oddy could never create those beautiful works without
>the use of many small, tedious-to-cut pieces, wonderful designs,and some
>gorgeous glass. Paint can't do that. But I think paint has it's place in
>modern glass work.

Oddy also it appears from his bio, was unwilling until recently to give up
his day job and had the luxury to develope his skill without financial
pressure of running a glass business. Lucky.

Bite your lip
Do run of the mill
Cause you know
It will pay the bill  
  

>	I can point you toward some books about modern glass work if you're
>interested. (being a library groupie myself)

Sure, I'll read one of yours if you read one of mine.


>Everytime I think I might stop lurking, another flame war breaks out and
>I think, "ah, who needs it. I'll just stay anonymous and soak up what
>there is". I've come very close to un-subscribing several times

 I know, It's very frustrating to realize that there are  knowledgeable
folks like yourself on this list that are reluctant to contribute or
unsubscribe because of the nonsense that takes place. 

Stick with it SB, From the tone of some recent posts I get the impression
that some folks are willing to speak out and get the list rules straight and
enforced. The time is now.   
Len

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 08:07:12 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: a stepping stone site
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:08:31 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970419100831.0069a9d0@busprod.com>
References: <<1997Apr19.134954.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>>I thought I had seen the most expensive stone near where I live this
week... 

These prices are pretty typical for Sedona & Scottsdale, Arizona. I just
moved from Phoenix and people seemed pretty willing to pay a minimum of
$100 for the 16" hexagon stone. Usually, $40 for the 4 x 8 bricks. I,
personally, think there are a few reasons for their elevated popularity
there...

first, the area is "money"...in the central corridor of Phoenix, where I
lived, the patio homes like I had ran around $125,000 and you couldn't
touch a house for under $200,000...the bigger ones were at least a half a
mil! Not to be prejudiced, but I always thought my customers there weren't
very concerned with the price.

Second, the stepping stones go perfect with desert landscapes...put down a
little pea gravel and you never have to weed again!

Lastly, the stones hold up extremely well with little or no care or thought
to them. It's the desert, after all. I can count on one hand the number of
days it rained last summer or the times it dipped below 50 degrees in the
winter.

Just a little "stepping stone" insight...
LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 08:12:10 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:17:50 +0000
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> then gave us many additional colors.Faces,hands and other intricate =
> parts were still painted as Tiffany had yet to discover the foil method =
> that allowed the incorporation of detail to be done in glass.

Tiffany claimed to not use any paint, but nearly all of his panels 
are painted.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 08:27:39 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Purchasing a Saw
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:30:02 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970419103002.00698b84@busprod.com>
References: <<199704191451.JAA14174@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
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Precedence: bulk

Ok, I need opinions again...do your worst! I've been dreaming of purchasing
a Diamond Laser bandsaw (my friend has the 5000 and it works like a
dream!), but the price usually holds me back. I found a place on the web at:
<http://www.stainedglass-bargains.com/>
They're selling the Diamond Laser 1000s for $232.00. I know Delphi
advertises it for $329.95! The big question is, has anyone ever purchased
anything from these folks...are they to be trusted? The next biggest
question...does anyone have/use this saw...how do you like it?

All help appreciated...I hate spending money, but I feel the cuts I'll be
able to make and the time it will save me in the studio might be worth it.
LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 09:22:51 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Purchasing a Saw
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:18:37 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.81837.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970419103002.00698b84@busprod.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi LJ,

Do your self a favor and go to your local glass shop (hope you have one
there) and try out the Gemini Taurus 11 Ring Saw. It (IMHO) is much
better than a band saw.  The blade is a 'ring' with no splice, diamond
coated all sides, and cuts in any direction. It sure has helped me with
the difficult cuts. I still cut a lot by hand, it is faster on the cuts
that you can.  Price at Glass Crafters (last years wholesale) is $349. 
Delphi is about the same I think. Your studio should qualify perhaps for
wholesale status, and the saw purchase would satisfy the 1st order
minium.  Can't say anything about the 'bargain place' don't know
anything about them.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations


LJ Maas wrote:
> 
> Ok, I need opinions again...do your worst! I've been dreaming of purchasing
> a Diamond Laser bandsaw (my friend has the 5000 and it works like a
> dream!), but the price usually holds me back. I found a place on the web at:
> <http://www.stainedglass-bargains.com/>
> They're selling the Diamond Laser 1000s for $232.00. I know Delphi
> advertises it for $329.95! The big question is, has anyone ever purchased
> anything from these folks...are they to be trusted? The next biggest
> question...does anyone have/use this saw...how do you like it?
> 
> All help appreciated...I hate spending money, but I feel the cuts I'll be
> able to make and the time it will save me in the studio might be worth it.
> LJ
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 12:14:54 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Purchasing a Saw
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 15:21:23 +0000
Message-ID: <199704191914.PAA12251@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>>  <http://www.stainedglass-bargains.com/>
 
 Smart of you to ask around about a supplier. I wonder why they have no
address on their web site? We checked our records ... it turns out the
phone number belongs to 
 
 Judy Steiner
 Stained Glass Place
 Hwy 321 Bypass / PO Box 2123
 Blowing Rock NC 28605 - 
 ..........................Phone: (704 ) 295 - 0204
 ..........................Email: sgp@juno.com
 although the web site you mention shows
 gjste@appstate.campus.mci.net as the email address. (?)
 
Good luck!
 


Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 13:41:08 1997
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From: Tomi Reneau <reneau@fls.infi.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe Soapbox
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:40:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.124050.0>
References: <<1997Apr18.183243.0>>
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Love it!  Thanks for verbalizing my thoughts...and doing such a good job
of it.  
To those who flame you.."consider the source.
To those who praise you...thank heavens for good taste!
Tomi
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 14:10:03 1997
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From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: English method?
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:08:59 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <1997417151642518467@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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On 04/17/97 22:22:27 you wrote:
>
english cutting method, put pattern on top of light box, glass on
>top of pattern-locate part of class most pleasing-score glass.  No
>pattern to cut, paste, much faster, takes a little getting used to, but is mucn faster.
>

This is open to debate. I have cut both ways and fouund that using patterns is by far faster and more accurate than cutting on a light box.

ms


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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 14:55:29 1997
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From: "last name: Anthony" <panthony@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead vs foil
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:55:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.13552.0>
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Precedence: bulk

Hi Charles,
	There's not always a lot of difference between the two. I usually do my
own designing, so I don't have a lot of experience with "storebought"
designs being specifically drawn for one or the other --- I just know
some of the problems I've run into by ignoring the lead heart in designs
and by trying to lead small, complicated pieces. Some designs are so
busy that leading them is very difficult. And you can run into problems
at the edges using lead in some designs because the heart of the lead
interferes with the glass placement. If you doubt this, draw a pattern
of diamonds and try leading it -- you have to allow for the heart of the
lead in the design or you go crazy trying to figure out why it won't
fit. I've done it. But in foil you can just follow the drawn lines.
	2 cents from the bungi lurk squad,
	--SB Anthony
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 15:15:09 1997
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From: Mike Barr <flowers@iAmerica.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Purchasing a Saw
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:10:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.121017.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970419103002.00698b84@busprod.com>>
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Organization: Flowers Etc
Precedence: bulk

I have a 5000 and have used it quite a lot esp when there are a 
lot of the same curves to cut or very small pieces, its so much better 
than the smaller saws i wouldnt even consider them unless it was to be 
used very seldom. Also have a taurus ring saw & it is amazing in the 
cuts it can make.Intracate detail in very small pieces and fast. Not 
much use for normal glass panels though. But I can cut a detailed 
butterfly smaller than my lead lines.
If you need a saw get one that will do the job you want it to, dont 
skimp. But take your time & pick the one that does what you need it to.
Most wholesalers shows have demonstrations & someone in your area might 
have some you can try. If you're close to New Orleans you are welcome to 
test mine
			Mike Barr
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 17:03:56 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "gizmos"
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:12:31 +0000
Message-ID: <199704200002.BAA23040@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Aaye,.. 
Did I start all this with "gizmos..." ???
It's been fun to read.
I will hold my old solitary bent dinner-knife up in pride; go down to 
the next "garage-sale" and buy at least a dozen more or so to give as 
presents to my students. The "dinner-knife" has so often helped me to 
shape, form and "persuade" the lead to bend round tight corners and 
curves, the back of the handle used to smooth the lead out, - or - 
burnish copper foil, .... and.....and....
Elisabeth 'n Toby

> > I have used a beech wooden spoon for years as a fid!!!! 
> 
> I use tongue depressors for a fid. 

Thanks!  Now I don't feel quite so bad admitting to using spring-loaded
wooden clothes pins.  I bought a bag of 50 when I first started working
with glass (nearly 11 years ago), removed the springs (put these in my
garden to drive the cutworms nuts) and still have many left.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 17:03:58 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: unsubscribe - Howard
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:12:31 +0000
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Mike, Albert, Glenna & Lurkers,
I agree with Mike,
Howard will be back; he will go & come, go & come. He has got a 
tremendeous knowledge and resources. He treats himself a bit like a 
demi-god.  Is that not what "artistic temperament" is all about? Give 
him space. Us "old-timers" have seen him go and come several times. 
Generosity, space and temperament is all it takes.
Howard made some quite uncharitable comments about and to the people 
who came over to UK.  I have refused to rise to that.
Why are you Americans so impatient with "time" ???
"Time" is a great healer; allow it to be and allow it to do its stuff 
.Just like glass itself - it takes time......
Elisabeth 'n Toby
> no, not really, he left (i think), because of some of the longer quote
> lines, and i think more, because the off topic posts; which really
> were'nt that many.

Your three-line post was accompanied by a 23-line "signature" and a 
15-line "recap."  Perhaps Howard was more tired of that kind of 
careful craftsmanship.

A
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 17:04:00 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: History; was Finger paints
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:12:31 +0000
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Len, you are such a gem;
"last-name-Anthony" - please hang on there!!

There has always been a strong historical division between "stained" 
and "painted" glass. The two have never been the same.  The "stained" 
glass was exploited by the crooked Phoenecians, who sought evil ways 
of staining glass to pass them off as precious stones when these were 
used as "currency" (i.e forgeries!!). 
The Church then jumped on the band-wagon, because they realized that 
colours and light had a controlling effect on the ignorant heathens ( 
a theme picked up by 20th century  psychologically aware office 
designers - why, for instance, are the walls in an office never ruby 
red??)
With coloured or stained glass images, the Church Fathers could also 
instruct, educate and teach us mere mortals (a picture is worth more 
than 1000 words!). They used it to great effect, except that the 
stained glass artisan decided to take off on his own and do his "own" 
thing.  Then the painters joind the roller-coaster and tried to use 
glass as a "painting canvass".
Yes, Anthony, you are quite right, this "painting fervour" was almost 
the DEATH of stained glass in the 18th & 19th century. In Canterbury 
Cathedral in Britain exists a wonderful  but most horrific example of painting 
on stained glass that probably exists anywhere in the world. It is 
acknowledged as quite simply "awful".  It dates back to the late 
1940's early 50's ( forgotten the exact date) and depicts in the most 
excrutiating photographic detail the images of  the (then) Princess 
Elizabeth and her husband Philip. It's absolutely awful!!! The ONLY 
20th century PAINTER, who has successfully used glass as a painting 
"canvass" is Marc Chagall.

The windows in Germany, that you are referring to are the oldest 
known complete surviving stained glass in the World. They are in the Cathedral 
of Augsburg in Germany. They are in fact 5 Old Testament prophets, 
namely Moses, David, Daniel, Hosea and Jonas. 
Augsburg was founded by the Romans in the first Century AD, these 
windows were "glazed" (whatever that means) in the 11th century.
These figures are about 8 ft tall. The intricacy of the glass cutting 
and leading is quite awesome. Yes there is some painting involved 
(mainly stippling and lettering), but these are restricted to 
high-light facial features, folds in robes and lettering. The colours 
are pre-dominently brown, yellow, gold and red-wine colours (i.e a 
considerable amount of silver-staining involved).

The urine bit.... ;-)   ,  yes, but it also had to come from a red-haired 
10-year old boy, if we are to believe Theophilus....

Books: May I suggest my own personal  historical and very 
comprehensive "Bible": STAINED GLASS, by Lawrence Lee, George Seddon, 
Francis Stephens, published by Spring Books, ISBN No. 0 600 56281 6
(...and I KNOW it is available in USA...)

"On Divers Arts" by Theophilus, ("The Foremost Medevial Treatise on Painting, 
Glassmaking and Metalkwork). Translated from the Latin . Dover 
Publications New York
ISBN No. 0 486 23784 2

....Don't talk to me about BOOKS....!!!!

Sorry, have I gone on and on...?
Elisabeth 'n Toby

You wrote: 
> Maybe so but from strictly a historical perspective painted glass
(snip) was responsible for the
> near demise of the art of s.g. ( Albert, Help!)
(snip) IMHO the brushed line work of the medievel
> windows is as far as painting on glass ever needed to develope. Any thing
> more then that is just painting on glass,a different art form not stained
> glass.
(snip) hold the same opinion as you about painting. And certainly its
over-use (I'm including enamels,silverstain etc.) was probably
responsible for the near demise of leaded glass craft in the 18 and 19
century. I'll concede that glass painting can be overdone (and also
badly done). (snip). Historically, I think that glass in
windows has almost always been painted. The earliest "stained glass"
(can't remember the date, around 1000?) is the painted head of Christ
from a church in what is now Germany. And doesn't the term "stained
glass" in fact actually (originally) refer to it being painted? (as
opposed to the color of the glass)? 
(snip) But I think paint has it's place in
modern glass work. 
	You know, in medieval days,they used to cut glass by running a red hot
iron down the line and then pouring urine on it. (that's why it had to
be painted!! those cuts weren't accurate enough to define shapes very
well <g>)
	I can point you toward some books about modern glass work if you're
interested. (being a library groupie myself)

(snip) I'll just stay anonymous and soak up what
there is". I've come very close to un-subscribing several times, and
then I'll learn something new and hang on a little longer.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 17:04:00 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Recognize This???
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:12:31 +0000
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Yes,, I'm here!!!!
 If it's Hartley Wood,  will be pleased to help. Since you bought all 
they had, then cut me a small (representative) sample and send by 
snail-mail and I will get it for you, as and when you require/ they 
make.
That's the least I can do for everything you are (ALL) doing for ME.
Contact me direct with details.
Elisabeth 'n Toby

You wrote:
Hi,

Sounds like it might be Hartley Wood  which is an English flashed antique 
looks like a streaky reamy. Blue and green over clear is one of their most
popular patterns. They have several others such as blue over clear, blue
over amber, purple and amber over clear etc. Very expensive, generally used
for specialized detail work. I heard that they are out of business and/or
don't distribute in US anymore.

Maybe Elisabeth or another UK person has more info.



----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 17:04:02 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead v's foil
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:12:31 +0000
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Hi Mike, Hi Charles
Mike: ... details; not entirely true. You did and do have the option 
of working with different thicknesses of lead (of which there are a 
considerable variety...)

Charles; I find your comment surprising and a little bit disturbing. 
Or perhaps you have chosen a rather unfortunate way of putting an 
idea & crafsmanship across. Please elaborate.......
..... for non-original thought and non-original patterns and mindless 
execution, I would recommend a few pattern-books by a great favorite 
of mine - Ed Sibbett Jr................................
His cardboard pattern line drawings are probably appropriately thick to be used as 
lead-lines without any extra additional input of "having to do it 
yourself"..
I will be very interested to find out more exactly "where your angle 
is". 
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Charles wrote: 
> I am a lead worker.   I find one big problem is that the large majority of
> pattern books and patterns use foil.
> 
> This is a problem for me because I don't like making up my own patterns or
> designing my own.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 17:04:02 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: English method?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:12:31 +0000
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sorry Barbara (et al) for the delay in answering (old age??)
The "English Method" has evolved from the dark days, when paper was 
an expensive commodity. The final cartoons were drawn out straight 
onto flat blocks of  wood instead, the glass cut and assembled on to 
it.
These drawings on wood were often borrowed and transported across 
Europe from Artist to Artist (which is often why you can see the 
very same "cherub" appearing in Prague as in Canterbury (and Vienna 
too...).  wood was durable and - although cumbersome - preserved 
better and could withstand the hazards of transport better.
 Still today, I have walked into a studio and found the 
stained glass Artisan drawing his final cutting/assembly cartoon on 
WOOD. Somehow, I take it in and know instinctively "where he/she has 
come from" ....
When paper became a more common and feasible product to use, the old 
habit stuck. The final "enginnering drawings" were transposed onto 
paper. This final cartoon would be have all the correct leadlines and 
lead thicknesses drawn out, with no alterations, amendments You would 
seal down your paper onto flat wood and lay your glass ontop and cut 
according to your drawing lines visible through the glass. (or in its entirety, on to a 
light box of some kind, if you were mainly using dense, opalescent 
glass). You should have seen the SIZE of the light-box at the Studio 
Gabriel Loire in France!!! Big enough to fill up a respectable 
living-room! If you were using a mixture of translucsent and 
opalescent glass, you would cut a clear glass template for the 
opalescent glass and use that to draw out your piece  then to be 
fitted onto your "engineering drawing". This drawing remains your 
"Bible", the be-all-and-end-all of your entire cutting, grozing, 
fitting, leading, soldering. It usually ends up in shreds after all 
the nails and flux once your panel is finished. In my case, it has 
further embellishment of tea and blood stains. Which is why I need to 
redraw them for Joyce; they are so threadbare, bloody and messy...)
But that , in essence, is the "English Method".

Personally I find it more precise and accurate; you eliminate  so 
many elements of drawing and redrawing, cutting paper and card-board 
with scissors;  you are far more "in touch" with your drawing and 
your original concept. There is more of an "organic" feel about it.

But it is all a matter of personal preference and what you were 
taught..... I am not pontificating , only explaining the weird and 
wonderful methods we still use "Across the Pond"......
Elisabeth 'n Toby
  
> 
barbara wrote:
> In a message dated 97-04-06 20:14:06 EDT, you write:
> 
> << Peggy Johnson  (a fellow US Bunginian) and I have spent today cutting
>  glass according to the English method. >>
> 
> What's the English method of cutting glass?
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 17:30:14 1997
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From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: English cutting
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 20:29:50 -0400
Message-ID: <199704200029.UAA01483@detroit.freenet.org>
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I think a wonderful result of the English light box method can be seen 
at the Coventry Cathedral crafted by Patrick Reytiens.  Enormous windows
with subtle shadings e.g. dark blue to pale blue  - it could only have
been accomplished by developing the tones cutting each piece side by side.
No cut and dried pattern system could have accomplished this shading.

IMHO Coventry Cathedral should be listed as a "must see" in England - I thought
the windows were breathtaking.

Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 17:38:53 1997
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From: RThaxton@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: She's Here!
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:33:17 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.103317.0>
References: <<1997Apr16.35941.0>>
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Hi everyone!
     
     On Wenesday at 7:51am Rachael Emily was born.  9 pounds 12 ounces,
22 inches long and a 9 on the apgar scale.

     I am so sore! My hubby is taking vacation for a week to help me
out.  I walk like Arty Johnson on the old comedy "Laugh In".  I hope
within a week I will be better able to get around. Whoever say's
C-sections are easy...I must be a wimp...ug.
    
     Glad to be home...with Rachael.
Melissa
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 17:54:10 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 20:42:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.16427.0>
References: <<199704191510.LAA01387@ns.computer.net>>
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > then gave us many additional colors.Faces,hands and other intricate =
> > parts were still painted as Tiffany had yet to discover the foil method =
> > that allowed the incorporation of detail to be done in glass.
> 
> Tiffany claimed to not use any paint, but nearly all of his panels
> are painted.
> 
> Albert
> ----

i think only his church windows, or anything with faces has the paint.
everything else though was glass. like the drapes in the clothes, etc.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too


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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 17:54:14 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: English method?
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 20:47:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.164755.0>
References: <<1997417151642518467@ix.netcom.com>>
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izzy3@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> On 04/17/97 22:22:27 you wrote:
> >
> english cutting method, put pattern on top of light box, glass on
> >top of pattern-locate part of class most pleasing-score glass.  No
> >pattern to cut, paste, much faster, takes a little getting used to, but is mucn faster.
> >
> 
> This is open to debate. I have cut both ways and fouund that using patterns is by far faster and more accurate than cutting on a light box.
> 
> ms
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i personally use every available method. it really takes just as much
time to trace the pattern from a light box onto the glass, as it is to
cut out a piece of pape and cutting around that. but if you have to cut
out black or mirror, i might use that. however i found it's easier to
trace around pattern with carbon paper under it to transfer the design
onto dark glass.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too

----
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 18:05:17 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: vertical soldering 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 01:14:24 +0000
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Folks,
This is little Old England rearing its ugly head again,
Agree, agree agree!!!!
Never, never , never agree to doing vertical soldering "in situ"
There is an English saying; "if a job is worth doing, it's worth 
doing well"
Restoration is NOT an "Odd-Job-Man's" task. 
I have been  too often, too emotionally blackmailed (though resisted) 
into discussions about an "easy" job of  this type of work.
"It will only take you 5 minutes!!! Oh Yeah!!!
Repairs & restoration is a TOTALLY different subject on the Stained 
Glass Agenda.
It's rather like inviting your Medic for  dinner; you tell him how 
rotten you feel and  expect him to give you the cure-all for nothing
Don't fall into this trap....
Elisabeth 'n Toby


>>    I have (in a pinch) done some rather crude soldering on a vertical 
>> surface.
>
>Paul, more harm than good has been done to American windows by trying 
>to restore them in place. It cannot be done well. You should really 
>convince the client of this, remove the windows and work with them on 
>the usual flat surface. 

>Albert

Yes, yes, yes ........ we repair many church windows and every so often we
have to repair one that was previously "repaired in place" ...... usually by
the good-intentions of a hobbyist in the congregation ........ and we ALWAYS
pull the window out and repair it on a flat surface.  Sometimes the panels
are badly buckled and warped, but they can be flattened out by weighting
them down with buckets of water for a few days.  My advise ..... get someone
exeperienced in pulling church windows to look at this before you jump in.
Especially if the windows are old and have been exposed to the elements over
time, they are very fragile once you take them out of their frames.

If you want more than my 2cents here, we can take it up off the group.  

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 19:30:13 1997
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From: suzannne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe - Howard
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 97 22:32:24 -0500
Message-ID: <199704200229.WAA25941@uz.comcat.com>
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>Why are you Americans so impatient with "time" ???
"Time" is a great healer; allow it to be and allow it to do its stuff 
.Just like glass itself - it takes time......
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Thank you Elisabeth 'n Toby!
Not all of us Americans are impatient with "time"! Although it does seem 
to be an American trait, possibly because we are an adolescent nation.

I often tell my students, there is no hurry in stained glass. That is one 
of its charms. Here, time has become a precious commodity as people 
scurry around trying to both make enough money to stay afloat and take 
care of their families. The advent of the computer, like so many "time 
saving" devices, has not saved us time but created more of a demand for 
instantaneous action. There are no natural pauses as we used to have 
(wait for mail, etc., which gave us time to mull things over.) 

Suzanne Albright
suzy@comcat.com


 suzanne albright<suzy@comcat.com>

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 22:04:39 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: She's Here!
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 23:06:45 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.17645.0>
References: <<1997Apr19.103317.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

RThaxton@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone!
> 
>      On Wenesday at 7:51am Rachael Emily was born.  9 pounds 12 ounces,
> 22 inches long and a 9 on the apgar scale.
> 
>     Glad to be home...with Rachael.
> Melissa
> ----


Contgratuations!!!

-Debi
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 19 22:46:28 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Purchasing a Saw
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 01:45:50 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr19.214550.0>
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Boy I really have to jump in here.  Before you buy a bandsaw try the
relatively new Gemini Taurus II ringsaw.  It's a lower cost version of the
original ringsaw but nearly all of the features are there.  Very solid
construction, very good customer service (should you need it) and the blade
will cut in any direction.  By the way, for those of you who feel like
delving into metalwork, it will also cut metal sheets.  The cost is nearly
that of a higher end bandsaw and IMHO quite worth the money.  The company
owners are on the rec.crafts.glass newsgroup if you want to talk with them.
 Barbara
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 04:05:30 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: She's Here!
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 06:04:49 +0000
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>      On Wenesday at 7:51am Rachael Emily was born.  

Congratulations! **Big** girl! Enjoy!

Hilary
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 05:41:17 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Thanks(was: purchasing a saw)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 07:43:01 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970420074301.00690538@busprod.com>
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Thanks to everyone for their help in my decision over a saw. I appreciate
the help...I think, by the input I've received, the Taurus II will be the
way I go. I only wish I had shops near me like Warner-C...it would be nice
to see how it works and all I can do with it ahead of time, but I think
I'll trust the opinions given to me by actual users.
Thanks again, LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 06:24:02 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:29:37 +0000
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> > Tiffany claimed to not use any paint, but nearly all of his panels
> > are painted.

> i think only his church windows, or anything with faces has the paint.
> everything else though was glass. like the drapes in the clothes, etc.

Thank you, Mike, for editing your reply. A very large improvement. As 
for Tiffany's claim that his studio didn't use paint, but relied only 
on the qualities of the glass to impart the image, it was a specious 
and false claim meant to underline the 'newness' of the opalescent 
material. Very nearly every panel created by the Tiffany Studios is 
painted; not only faces, hands, feet and other portions of the design 
that would else be difficult to make "visually believable," but also 
other areas that were being "toned down" or otherwise manipulated by 
the paint. Much of the mythology surrounding the Tiffany name and 
work is the result of excellent salesmanship and propagandizing by 
Tiffany himself; he was a great salesman, a sharp businessman (and by 
"sharp" I mean that in its derogatory sense), and *not the inventor 
or instigator or founder or discoverer of opalescent glass at all. 
The artist John La Farge gets that credit, to be sure, although he 
was far from an excellent businessman, like many artists. He used 
it first, patented it first, installed the first opalescent windows; 
Tiffany fudged his dates (which can be proved), out-marketed La Farge 
(who was, after all, merely an artist who lacked the deep pockets 
enjoyed by Tiffany, whose studio was underwritten by his father's 
jewelry business -- you've heard of Tiffany's, right? -- and whose 
studio consistently lost money and which survived only because he had 
a constant infusion of money from the silver side of things.

La Farge came from Society and his clients were from Society; Tiffany 
was a striver and a social climber (his father was a *merchant! after 
all, not the "thing" to be in Society). Sure, Tiffany enjoyed 
financial success -- he was a merchant -- but La Farge was far the 
better artist.

La Farge also used paint on his windows ... for the same reasons: 
definition and to control the transmitted light.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 06:51:21 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: vertical soldering 
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:50:07 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr20.13507.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 10:53 AM 4/19/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> pull the window out and repair it on a flat surface.  Sometimes the panels
>> are badly buckled and warped, but they can be flattened out by weighting
>> them down with buckets of water for a few days.  My advise ..... get someone
>> exeperienced in pulling church windows to look at this before you 
>jump in.
>
>You don't experience any glass breakage by weighing them down? Some 
>studios lay the panels in large shallow baths of warm water and allow 
>gravity to pull them down before disassembly, but I'd worry about 
>putting heavy buckets right on the glass, lest some of the glass 
>break.
>


Well, you don't use 30 gallon buckets!  If you use two 2 gallon buckets
about three-quarters full of water, then you have about 25 lbs of weight on
the panel.  That's not much ..... and it will pull a 4-6 inch buckle down in
about 3-4 days.  And, no broken glass!  I think the large shallow bath works
well if you intend to pull the panel completely apart, but the original post
mentioned a rock went through the window so I am assuming we are only
interested in a small isolated spot in the panel.   At any rate, I think we
all agree that the panel needs to come out and be repaired on a flat surface.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 06:53:46 1997
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From: studio@artisticglassusa.com (Artistic Glass of Atlanta)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: She's Here!
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:56:25 -0400
Message-ID: <v01510101af7fd0d5ff16@[207.69.144.210]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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>     On Wenesday at 7:51am Rachael Emily was born.  9 pounds 12 ounces,
>22 inches long and a 9 on the apgar scale.
>
Congratulations Melissa!!!

-Michael Delaware

www.artisticglassusa.com
Studio@artisticglassusa.com
Atlanta, Georgia USA
Phone: (770) 992-2900
Fax: (770) 518-8686


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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 06:57:22 1997
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From: "Jane Adams" <J_B_Adams@msn.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: solder on bronze spider
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 97 13:54:00 UT
Message-ID: <UPMAIL13.199704201353570567@msn.com>
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Greetings.

I am a two-year hobbyist and am just completing a tiffany spider web lamp 
reproduction.  During the soldering I got some of the solder on the bronze 
spider.  I would be grateful for suggestions as to how to remove it or correct 
it.  

Thank you.

Jane Adams
j_b_adams@msn.com
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 07:41:45 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: solder on bronze spider
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:40:27 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr20.144027.0>
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At 01:54 PM 4/20/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Greetings.
>
>I am a two-year hobbyist and am just completing a tiffany spider web lamp 
>reproduction.  During the soldering I got some of the solder on the bronze 
>spider.  I would be grateful for suggestions as to how to remove it or correct 
>it.  
>
>Thank you.
>
>Jane Adams


Jane,  IF THERE WAS NO FLUX ON THE BRONZE WHEN THE SOLDER SPILLED OVER ON IT
........ you can take a knife blade and pry it off.  The solder should pop
off without any damage (usually) to the bronze surface.  If the solder
doesn't move ....... then heat it up and smooth it out as best you can and
use a little antique brass patina to get a similar color.  Good Luck!


Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 08:05:24 1997
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: please repost stepping stone address
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 08:04:08 -0700
Message-ID: <199704201504.IAA18180@norm.island.net>
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Hi,

Would whoever posted a stepping stone site a couple of days ago, please
email me directly with the address?  I thought I had saved it, but must have
trashed it instead.  I wrote the URL down and have tried
www.aerovisions.com/multi/stones.html but it can't be found.  I must be off
a letter somewhere.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Carol
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 08:37:34 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: vertical soldering 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:43:08 +0000
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> Well, you don't use 30 gallon buckets!  If you use two 2 gallon buckets
> about three-quarters full of water, then you have about 25 lbs of weight on
> the panel.  That's not much ..... and it will pull a 4-6 inch buckle down in
> about 3-4 days.  And, no broken glass! 

Oh. Thanks. <s>

Albert
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 09:15:39 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Coventry Cathedral
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:23:40 +0000
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Hi All,

What an interesting posting; just shows you how small the world 
really is.
As an anti-dote to Chartres, I went to Coventry Cathedral only last 
week. Have never been before...
It truly is a considerable culture shock!
I never quite realized the extent of the bombing during the 2nd World 
War.
The well known stained glass by John Piper / Patrick Reyntiens is 
really quite something and most stunning. As always, photographs just 
simply do not do it any justice whatsoever....But equally, there are 
about 5 floor to ceiling  stained glass "slots" at either side in the 
Cathedral, which you don't even see until yuo are right up by the 
Altar looking down. The engraved full Entrance to the Cathedral is 
also quite mind-blowing (and very tactile!).
I kept on thinking what the architect Spence must have thought as he 
wondered amongst the rubble, charcoal and debris of the ruins. 
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 09:15:40 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Plea to Linda Campbell & Joyce Moran
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:23:40 +0000
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Dear Both,
Am trying to send you both off-group e-mail, but can't get through 
somehow.
May I ask you both to send me any old thing, that I can "click" on 
to.
Any rubbish will do...
Many thanks...
Sorry Group!
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 09:15:49 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: My turn?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:23:40 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
This time, it's me asking for advice....
I am constructing 2 panels approx. 39 x 20" in lead. I am using a 
mixture of 1/4", 3/16" lead and a small amount of copper-foiling.
The panels are commemorative panels for a Minister who served almost 
40 years at a United Reform Church (Methodist) here in UK.

The panels are going to be fitted against the altar wall, on either 
side of the Altar wooden cross, hence very much a focal point inside 
the church.  They are going to be artifically lit from behind. I am 
sub-contracting a blacksmith to construct  wrought iron frames for 
the panels to be fixed into and onto the wall. How I visualize these 
frames is like a cupboard construction with a hinged door (i.e these 
holding. the panels themselves), with the light fittings mounted on 
the wall itself. 
The hinge construction is for easy access to the light tubes, in case 
one of them blows.

The panels, theoretically, fall just under the point where the 
books say they should be re-inforced with re-bars. Out of aesthetic 
considerations I have also decided against. However, I am inclined to want 
to put a "secondary" sheet of glass (probably 4 mm thickness) immediately
 behind the panels for support. The edge is lead and not zinc.
My questions are:

How big should this secondary sheet be cut? To the outer edge of the 
edging lead?

Clear glass is obvious, but I am thinking of some suitable textured 
clear, so as to defract the spots/glare of the light tubes behind. 
Any suggestions??

Many thanks in advance.
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 09:35:37 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Scientific Glassblowing?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:41:19 +0000
Message-ID: <199704201634.MAA10778@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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The British Society of Scientific Glassblowers sent us a couple of 
copies of their journal. One copy I've sent off to Robert Mickelsen, 
our resident specialist in the area, but I've another one for the 
first person to send me their address privately.

Interested? Let me know.

Albert Lewis

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 09:45:33 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: My turn?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:51:09 +0000
Message-ID: <199704201644.MAA11157@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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> I am constructing 2 panels approx. 39 x 20" in lead.
> I am inclined to want 
> to put a "secondary" sheet of glass (probably 4 mm thickness) immediately
>  behind the panels for support.
> Clear glass is obvious, but I am thinking of some suitable textured 
> clear, so as to defract the spots/glare of the light tubes behind. 

I fail to see how the secondary glass would support the primary glass 
... the panel itself. As the lead ages, gravity's sway over the panel 
IMHO would continue unabated while the secondary sheet would merely 
support its frame ... or am I misunderstanding the engineering here? 
And is textured glass available in sizes you mention? Yes, I guess it 
is, from German sources most assuredly. Some irony in that, as well 
as poetic justice.

As for the lighting, I've always understood that you need at least 
12" clearance between fixture and the illuminated glass to avoid 
bright spots, not to mention hot ones. Could you avoid the lighting 
altogether by merely backing the glass with a white/light-colored 
acrylic sheet? I wonder if enough reflected light wouldn't result to 
carry it off. This is difficult, trying to imagine a setup from 
an ocean away. <s>

Albert

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 09:59:57 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Check This Out
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:36:44 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970420123644.007c86d0@pop.bridge.net>
References: <<1997Apr18.64326.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike Savad wrote:
>Now, how he does the flapping of the owl's wings...
>that's another mystery.


I would think he applies foil to the back of the owl panel and solders, so
the wing movement is solder lines. ???? Wouldn't that work?

I'll be very interested to hear how he does it when PJ gets a reply ...

M.-J.



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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 10:25:03 1997
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From: Bubstah@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: She's Here!
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:24:37 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr20.92437.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the fun begins  :-))

bubstah
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 13:50:40 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: English method?
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:50:03 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr20.12503.0>
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I have to disagree as to the quckest way to cut- patterns or English method.
I am sure it mostly is a mtter of what you are you are used to, but I use my
light box almost always and find it much more accurate.  I just score right
along the pattern lines and I have little or no grinding to do. I save time
by not having to make a second pattern, cut it, then glue it the glass and
wait for it dry.  
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 14:17:45 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Loved your page!!!
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:17:11 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704202117.RAA20227@water.waterw.com>
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>Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:49:17 -0400
>From: "Robert N. Oddy" <rnoddy@servtech.com>
>Reply-To: rnoddy@servtech.com
>To: pj friend <ARTGLASS@waterw.com>
>Subject: Re: Loved your page!!!
>References: <3356DE34.43F3@waterw.com>
>
>pj friend wrote:
>> 
>> I am curious about your work.  You say that you rarely use painting
>> techinques...how do you achieve the affect in your floral window on the
>> leaves?? And on the conquerors....the horses and men if you don't paint.
>> What types of glass do you use?
>> Also if you don't mind how where these photographed?? They are great!!
>> 
>> my best,
>> pj
>
>PJ:  Many thanks for your message!  Re- techniques: I sometimes engrave
>the reverse side of the glass, and often use wire and copper foil
>(tinned) on the surface to add features.  Types of glass: whatever I can
>find that suits the purpose.  I've used most of the major manufacturers
>and plenty of glass of unknown origin (salvaged!)
>Photos:  all my own with an ordinary 35mm SLR in daylight (preferably
>not bright sunlight).  I scanned large prints at 288 dots per inch, did
>minor touching-up with Photoshop and saved (for the web pages) as jpeg
>72 dpi medium quality.
>Bob
>-- 
>Robert N. Oddy              Tel: (315) 446-0279
>Stained Glass Artist        email: rnoddy@servtech.com
>223 Scottholm Terrace       www: 
>Syracuse NY 13224
>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 14:20:02 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scientific Glassblowing?
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:19:08 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704202119.RAA20254@water.waterw.com>
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Albert wrote,
>The British Society of Scientific Glassblowers sent us a couple of 
>copies of their journal. One copy I've sent off to Robert Mickelsen, 
>our resident specialist in the area, but I've another one for the 
>first person to send me their address privately.
>
>Interested? Let me know.


I hope i am not to late??????


pj friend
216 lincoln avenue
haddonfield, new jersey 08033

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 14:26:03 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Check This Out
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:25:31 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704202125.RAA20389@water.waterw.com>
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>MJ wrote,

>
>I would think he applies foil to the back of the owl panel and solders, so
>the wing movement is solder lines. ???? Wouldn't that work?
>
>I'll be very interested to hear how he does it when PJ gets a reply ...
>
>M.-J.
>
Well he didn't fess up to applications.

But you just don't put foil in the middle of a sheet of glass and solder it.

I would just love to see these in person!!!!!!!

my best,
pj (still curious)

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 14:33:06 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:01:21 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr20.13121.0>
References: <<199704201322.JAA02826@ns.computer.net>>
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > > Tiffany claimed to not use any paint, but nearly all of his panels
> > > are painted.
> 
> > i think only his church windows, or anything with faces has the paint.
> > everything else though was glass. like the drapes in the clothes, etc.
> 
> Thank you, Mike, for editing your reply. A very large improvement. As
> for Tiffany's claim that his studio didn't use paint, but relied only
> on the qualities of the glass to impart the image, it was a specious
> and false claim meant to underline the 'newness' of the opalescent
> material. Very nearly every panel created by the Tiffany Studios is
> painted; not only faces, hands, feet and other portions of the design
> that would else be difficult to make "visually believable," but also
> other areas that were being "toned down" or otherwise manipulated by
> the paint. Much of the mythology surrounding the Tiffany name and
> work is the result of excellent salesmanship and propagandizing by
> Tiffany himself; he was a great salesman, a sharp businessman (and by
> "sharp" I mean that in its derogatory sense), and *not the inventor
> or instigator or founder or discoverer of opalescent glass at all.
> The artist John La Farge gets that credit, to be sure, although he
> was far from an excellent businessman, like many artists. He used
> it first, patented it first, installed the first opalescent windows;
> Tiffany fudged his dates (which can be proved), out-marketed La Farge
> (who was, after all, merely an artist who lacked the deep pockets
> enjoyed by Tiffany, whose studio was underwritten by his father's
> jewelry business -- you've heard of Tiffany's, right? -- and whose
> studio consistently lost money and which survived only because he had
> a constant infusion of money from the silver side of things.
> 
> La Farge came from Society and his clients were from Society; Tiffany
> was a striver and a social climber (his father was a *merchant! after
> all, not the "thing" to be in Society). Sure, Tiffany enjoyed
> financial success -- he was a merchant -- but La Farge was far the
> better artist.
> 
> La Farge also used paint on his windows ... for the same reasons:
> definition and to control the transmitted light.


also from what i remember, LaFarge worked for tiffany for a while, he
used the plating technique as well. also he tried to sue tiffany about
the glass thing, i forget who won though. in anycase, weither he painted
it or not, it really does'nt matter, the windows are really cool to look
at. as far far as i know tiffany is dead, (the guy not the art :) )and
his windows still sell themselves, at a huge amount of money, i might
add.

---Mike Savad

Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too


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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 14:33:06 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: solder on bronze spider
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:02:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr20.13241.0>
References: <<1997Apr20.144027.0>>
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Mike Peck wrote:
> 
> At 01:54 PM 4/20/97 +0000, you wrote:
> >Greetings.
> >
> >I am a two-year hobbyist and am just completing a tiffany spider web lamp
> >reproduction.  During the soldering I got some of the solder on the bronze
> >spider.  I would be grateful for suggestions as to how to remove it or correct
> >it.
> >
> >Thank you.
> >
> >Jane Adams
> 
> Jane,  IF THERE WAS NO FLUX ON THE BRONZE WHEN THE SOLDER SPILLED OVER ON IT
> ........ you can take a knife blade and pry it off.  The solder should pop
> off without any damage (usually) to the bronze surface.  If the solder
> doesn't move ....... then heat it up and smooth it out as best you can and
> use a little antique brass patina to get a similar color.  Good Luck!
> 
> Mike Peck
> Summit Stained Glass
> 
> ----

or if it is on there for good, you could try to either file it off or
carefully grind it off, (if you have a dremal or a simaler tool). just
try not to grind too much.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too


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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 14:33:41 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: My turn?
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:33:14 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704202133.RAA20518@water.waterw.com>
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Elizabeth worte, ( and i won't send it all)

>How big should this secondary sheet be cut? To the outer edge of the 
>edging lead?
>
>Clear glass is obvious, but I am thinking of some suitable textured 
>clear, so as to defract the spots/glare of the light tubes behind. 
>Any suggestions??
>
I am wondering why you would put a second sheet of glass at all?  Support is
not really needed. If you have cements and glazed the window.  These are
interior windows and won't be affect by any weather just gravity.

 If anything a sheet of opal. plexi or lexon will defer the look from the
tubes. Depends on the installation what size you need. What is covering the
light tubes
on the sides??? And how is the wrought iron adheared to the wall?

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 14:43:45 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: About that book!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:50:06 +0000
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That didn't take long. <g> pj friend in nj was the first to appear on 
my big screen. Off it goes to nj. Thanks everyone for your interest.

Albert


Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 14:43:51 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
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Subject: Re: Scientific Glassblowing?
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> I hope i am not to late??????

Nope, you were the first. It's on the way.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 14:59:00 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
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> also from what i remember, LaFarge worked for tiffany for a while, he
> used the plating technique as well. also he tried to sue tiffany about
> the glass thing, i forget who won though. in anycase, weither he painted
> it or not, it really does'nt matter, the windows are really cool to look
> at. as far far as i know tiffany is dead, (the guy not the art :) )and
> his windows still sell themselves, at a huge amount of money, i might
> add.

Okay, forget what I said about editing your stuff; you're back to 
your old tricks. La Farge worked for Tiffany? No. Wrong. Both of them 
used the plating technique? Correct. There was a lawsuit? Yes, there 
was. Who won? Nobody; it was never tried, although each continued to 
claim to have invented opalescent glass. A patent search reveals that 
La Farge had first claim patent-wise and a search of old news accounts reveals 
that it was La Farge who first installed opalescent glass, Tiffany's 
"claims" to the contrary notwithstanding.

You claimed that Tiffany (and, by implication, La Farge) didn't paint 
his stained glass. Now that I've pointed out that both of them did 
... and did so extensively ... you say it "doesn't matter." Tiffany may 
be dead and so may La Farge be, but the facts ain't. I was merely 
trying to set you straight on the facts, rather than let anyone here 
think the stories you're making up have anything to do with reality. 
Did'ja ever read Aesop's "Fox and the Grapes"? <s>

As for things selling for a lot of money and that somehow proving 
their worth, wrong again. The popularity of Tiffany is a fad. Why 
else were his lamps/windows worthless enough to toss on trash heaps 
34-40 years ago, while now they command excellent prices? None of us 
may be around to see it, but I predict that eventually Tiffany's 
popularity may sag. On the other hand, it may not be that long at all 
... two weekends ago, a Tiffany lamp sold for over $100,000. One 
weekend ago, another Tiffany lamp sold for $10,000. What does that 
mean? I couldn't say, but it is interesting that in a crowd of 
collectors an otherwise excellent lamp as compared with the one sold 
elsewhere the previous weekend, a Tiffany lamp would sell for so 
little.

By the way, Mike, it's La(space)Farge, not LaFarge. That's the way he 
spelled it, s'help me: La Farge. Do him the honor?

Albert (who's over his hissy fit now)
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 16:33:58 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: website
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:33:02 -0400
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I finally got a web page together, can be found at
http://www.bright.net/~joyce/
....hope you like it!

Joyce


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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 17:02:35 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: My turn?
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:10:36 +0000
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Thanks Albert and PJ Friend for your initial comments,
Kind of hoped I would hear from you also....
Can't resist the comment that "gravity" affects us all, sooner or 
later......      ;-)
It's very difficult to describe what one carries in ones mind's eye.

Have been "stalking" around other Churh sites here in UK
where the panels are fixed INSIDE onto a wall or similar. For some 
reason, the largest space between light source and stained glass is 6 
inches. Some of them have a sort of plexi /plastic "grid between 
light source and panel. To me , looking "behind" the structures, they 
look dreadful and messy. Another sheet of glass would look far 
neater and also serve the purpose of a) defracting the light source 
and b)  providing extra support for the panel itself, c) an extra 
safety factor to prevent the sleepy care-taker from  banging the 
panel itself, when he/she is asked to change the light tubes.

None of the structures I have seen so far allows for easy access to 
the light tubes, to change them,  should one (or ALL!) blow. Which is 
why I thought of the hinged door arrangement.
Picture this;
 a 6 inch deep wall cabinet, except it is made of wrought iron with 
flanges that screw on to the wall. (The wall itself has been fitted 
with light tubes separately. I haven't made my mind up yet how many).
The cabinet has got a door with hinges, except that the door itself 
is a wrought iron "lipped" frame that holds the stained glass panel 
(+ supporting clear glass - if I take that option..). The hinges 
themselves I envisage as a kind of hook & loop wrought iron detail.
 A second sheet of glass  isn't strictly necessary, I know that - 
perhaps I am being too meticulous.
What is covering the light tubes? Nothing , so far... (...and what is 
Lexon??) I am reluctant to use plastic. From what I have seen,  it 
gets messed about, shunted about and broken. It also "yellows" with 
time, and it tends to become "too much what the job is worth", to keep 
clean, straight and tidy.
What is covering the sides?: the wrought iron "cabinet sides" 
(Probably with vents to allow heat to escape.....)
The wrought iron is adhered to the wall, as I hoped I described 
earlier, through welded-on flanges with holes to screw into the wall.
The Altar wall is substantial. Its only adornment is this wooden 
cross which measures about 8 ft x 6 ft. My commemorative panels are 
to be fitted on either side, just below  the cross-pieces of the Cross, with 
absolutely nothing else added on to that wall. The wood in the Cross 
itself is really quite attractive and so I have had to take great 
care so as not to distract from it, yet "add" to it, if you see what 
I mean.  My particular style of stained glass seemed to have "hit" 
with this particular Methodist community and about another 100 sq.ft 
for another Methodist Church in a nearby town will be lurking because 
of it (partly financing my crazy dream of coming to USA....)
Is the idea clearer now??
The blacksmith is coming over tomorrow evening to get his first idea 
from the first panel that I have only JUST completed (it still needs 
cementing, though!).
I need to be able to tell him - at some stage - to make the "lip" 
wide enough to accommodate the extra suppport panel - if that is the 
avenue I will pursue..
What do you think??
Elisabeth 'n Toby

PJ, you wrote:
why you would put a second sheet of glass at all?  Support is
not really needed. If you have cements and glazed the window.  These are
interior windows and won't be affect by any weather just gravity.

 If anything a sheet of opal. plexi or lexon will defer the look from the
tubes. Depends on the installation what size you need. What is covering the
light tubes
on the sides??? And how is the wrought iron adheared to the wall?

my best,
pj

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As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 17:02:37 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: English method?
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:10:36 +0000
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As I said, Krissy....
Don't mean to pontificate.... It's so often depends on what method 
you are taught and what suits you.......
Elisabeth 'n Toby

You wrote:
I have to disagree ...
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 17:20:17 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:18:34 -0400
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > also from what i remember, LaFarge worked for tiffany for a while, he
> > used the plating technique as well. also he tried to sue tiffany about
> > the glass thing, i forget who won though. in anycase, weither he painted
> > it or not, it really does'nt matter, the windows are really cool to look
> > at. as far far as i know tiffany is dead, (the guy not the art :) )and
> > his windows still sell themselves, at a huge amount of money, i might
> > add.
> 
> Okay, forget what I said about editing your stuff; you're back to
> your old tricks. La Farge worked for Tiffany? No. Wrong. Both of them
> used the plating technique? Correct. There was a lawsuit? Yes, there
> was. Who won? Nobody; it was never tried, although each continued to
> claim to have invented opalescent glass. A patent search reveals that
> La Farge had first claim patent-wise and a search of old news accounts reveals
> that it was La Farge who first installed opalescent glass, Tiffany's
> "claims" to the contrary notwithstanding.
> 
> You claimed that Tiffany (and, by implication, La Farge) didn't paint
> his stained glass. Now that I've pointed out that both of them did
> ... and did so extensively ... you say it "doesn't matter." Tiffany may
> be dead and so may La Farge be, but the facts ain't. I was merely
> trying to set you straight on the facts, rather than let anyone here
> think the stories you're making up have anything to do with reality.
> Did'ja ever read Aesop's "Fox and the Grapes"? <s>
> 
> As for things selling for a lot of money and that somehow proving
> their worth, wrong again. The popularity of Tiffany is a fad. Why
> else were his lamps/windows worthless enough to toss on trash heaps
> 34-40 years ago, while now they command excellent prices? None of us
> may be around to see it, but I predict that eventually Tiffany's
> popularity may sag. On the other hand, it may not be that long at all
> ... two weekends ago, a Tiffany lamp sold for over $100,000. One
> weekend ago, another Tiffany lamp sold for $10,000. What does that
> mean? I couldn't say, but it is interesting that in a crowd of
> collectors an otherwise excellent lamp as compared with the one sold
> elsewhere the previous weekend, a Tiffany lamp would sell for so
> little.
> 
> By the way, Mike, it's La(space)Farge, not LaFarge. That's the way he
> spelled it, s'help me: La Farge. Do him the honor?
> 
> Albert (who's over his hissy fit now)
> ----
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this is the way i see it: it does'nt matter if the guy made his windows
from chewing gum and spit. the windows look good regardless if he used
paint or not, i really don't care about his life, i've read the various
books about his (tiffany's) life, kind of eccentric. i personally never
liked tiffany's taste in decorating. but i think stained glass, tiffany,
and any new guys will have high prices. though it seems you have mixed
reviews on tiffany. it seems you know everything about him but don't
care much for his work...why?


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 17:37:05 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:10:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr20.131047.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970420123644.007c86d0@pop.bridge.net>>
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M.-J. wrote:
> 
> Mike Savad wrote:
> >Now, how he does the flapping of the owl's wings...
> >that's another mystery.
> 
> I would think he applies foil to the back of the owl panel and solders, so
> the wing movement is solder lines. ???? Wouldn't that work?
> 
> I'll be very interested to hear how he does it when PJ gets a reply ...
> 
> M.-J.
> 
> ----
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it would probably work if he used black backed foil, or you may risk
copper showing through. however, the foil may peel off as time goes on.
also if he we're to solder it, the glass may crack. however if he
painted the flappling lines on the back, that would solve those
problems.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 17:43:21 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: My turn?
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:37:54 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970412194928.1a1fa9f8@sol.racsa.co.cr>
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Hi Elizabeth,
        Nice to have you back!  Out of plain curiosity, why don't you use
the "strongline" reinforcing stuff?  I haven't worked in lead yet, but
supposedly you can stick it in the heart.... I am just trying it in some
foiled panels that I am making, which are a tad big and make me
uncomfortable not reinforcing.  Let you know what I think when I finish.  Meg

 Out of aesthetic 
>considerations I have also decided against. However, I am inclined to want 
>to put a "secondary" sheet of glass (probably 4 mm thickness) immediately
> behind the panels for support. The edge is lead and not zinc.
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 18:53:49 1997
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From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:59:51 -0500
Message-ID: <199704210152.UAA22150@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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> > 
> > Mike Savad wrote:
> > >Now, how he does the flapping of the owl's wings...
> > >that's another mystery.
> > 
> > I would think he applies foil to the back of the owl panel and solders,
so
> > the wing movement is solder lines. ???? Wouldn't that work?
> >> 
> it would probably work if he used black backed foil, 


Our now semi-lurker Anthony suggested formed wire a definite maybe.

Oddys' work really stirred up the pot around here, his work  sort of a
cross between an assemblage' and applique'  was stimulating. Other list
members were impressed, inspired, awestruck, motivated, captivated, 
intimidated, curious  envious etc. Lots of interesting and though provoking
dialog about STAINED GLASS  came out of this thread some of the best
*action* we've had for a while I believe.

How about if we have sort of a looking group  like a reading group only we
find a cool window or lamp or dimensional piece  on the web  study it and
post our observations to the list. Could be fun, no? The trick might be on
how to decide on a piece to critique. Maybe one a month and let Albert pick
the first one, that would my choice.  Any opinions?

Len
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 19:40:18 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: English method?
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:39:46 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr20.183946.0>
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Jeez, I did say in the content of my posting that it depends on personal
preference if I remember right,  let's stop this bantering now.
 And by the way, I was not taught a certain way, I taught myself, so don't
blame this on any teachers. I like to experiment and try different ways, as I
think most artists do.
 I believe everyone has a method that works best for him/her and they should
use whatever media they coose, and I also believe that one should try
whatever method they would like, and form their own opinions and not listen
to others too much.  As if I had, I would have thought that stained glass was
just too hard to learn and that just is not true, if I can do it, anyone can.

I truly believe that personal preference takes precedence to anything else,
such as preference in cutters, etc. 
Also, with my light box, I do not trace patterns onto glass, I have my
pattern under my glass as I am cutting, and this eliminates time for me. I do
still use the pattern cut out method when necessary, but I don't  use any
special pattern shears, just my trusty scissors that my gramps had

SO, go ahead and pontificate all you want, but make sure you read the whole
letter first.

If you didn't mean to pontifcate, then why did you???
I am truly getting sick of all this prattle & bantering and bashing, as I
have never seen a group so out to prove someone wrong. I always thought that
everyone was entitled to their own opinion and that is why we have this
medium. I think that just because ones ideas & opinions do not coincide, that
is not reason enough to put another down. Difference does not make one wrong.

This group has already lost some valuable resources due to very petty and
childish goings on and I really think it is time to move on before too many
others leave, as well. 
Please, no personal attacks, stick to the facts, and lets all learn and share
what knowledge we have. I have really enjoyed this group since I joined, but
lately it is just getting to be too much. Life is just too short & too
precious to spend it second guessing & one upping, etc. Please, lets all stop
this  now    
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 19:45:37 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: English method?
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:44:59 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr20.184459.0>
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Toby- I was disagreeing about the time involved, as anyone will tell you that
if to get from a to b, you go in a straight line, then it will be faster than
going in circles first(or zig zag, or whatever). Now when I cut, I just place
the pattern under the glass on top of the light box, and cut it. No pattern
tracing or copying, no pattern cutting, no pattern pasting, no letting glue
dry. Therefore I save much time and get straight to the cut, no fuss, no
muss.  I really can't see how anyone could think that the pattern method is
not more time consuming. 
I am not saying that one way is better than the other as I do use both ways,
but prefer the English way.  

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 19:50:37 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead vs foil
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:44:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr20.184456.0>
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last name: Anthony wrote:
> 
> Hi Charles,
<snip>
> And you can run into problems
> at the edges using lead in some designs because the heart of the lead
> interferes with the glass placement. If you doubt this, draw a pattern
> of diamonds and try leading it -- you have to allow for the heart of the
> lead in the design or you go crazy trying to figure out why it won't
> fit. 

I found a trick when I first started lead - when you get two pieces of
lead joining at a narrow angle - cut a small piece of the heart of one
or both pieces - I found the hint in a book of victorian patterns. Some
of them have been real fun to lead up.

the end of the lead looks like this :  

---------
        [
---------
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 20:10:11 1997
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From: "bumblebee  Stained Glass" <bumblbee@frognet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Summary: Authenticated sender is <bumblbee@frognet.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:09:36 +0000
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  We live near the Wissmach Factory and often go there to buy glass.  
It is sold by the pound instead of the SF. Depending on the glass a 
SF of glass = about 1.6 pounds.  By the way we meet lots of people at 
Wissmach buying glass for thier studios.  at just $.75 per pound, you 
can really stock up.Also a bit of trivia...  Nearby  Sistersville, 
W.Va. has what is thought to be the only paddlewheel car ferry in 
the country crossing the Ohio River.  Since we live in Ohio we have 
to take it.  It's worth the trip.

Good Luck

Paul
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 20:19:25 1997
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:11:43 -0400
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pj friend wrote:
> 
> >MJ wrote,
<snip>		
> But you just don't put foil in the middle of a sheet of glass and solder it.

you might not do it in the middle, but I have used that before, doing a
'grape arbor' design. Vines use 'tendrils' to climb, (if you've ever
grown peas or beans, you've seen them). The line did not define a seam,
just a squiggley line curling on the face of the glass. The foil was
laid on, cut with a hobby knife and solder beaded. Doesn't look so great
from the back side, unless you have more patience then I, and replicate
the same line on the back side.
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 21:06:44 1997
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Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:02:45 -0400
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Good Idea Len,

I enjoyed the flurry of opinions, awe, etc when that was posted.  Also
just looked a some nice work at Joyces new site that she just posted.  I
would be fun, and just finding all the other glass artists on the web,
would be very interesting.  Maybe some of the other artists don't know
about the bungi.com mail line.  We could leave a message on their page
to invite them to drop by and join the discussions.  

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations.

len alcamo wrote:

> How about if we have sort of a looking group  like a reading group only we
> find a cool window or lamp or dimensional piece  on the web  study it and
> post our observations to the list. Could be fun, no? The trick might be on
> how to decide on a piece to critique.
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 21:08:50 1997
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: New site
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:04:51 -0400
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Very nice Joyce,
thanks for posting the site address.  I'll pop by from time to time.  

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 22:19:21 1997
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 01:16:57 -0400
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Please remove me from your list.

Thanks
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 20 23:14:17 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
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Subject: Pool table lamp
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 02:13:43 -0400 (EDT)
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I have long owed my husband a lamp for his pool table.  Not caring for any of
the Worden versions, I'd like to make a version of a prairie lamp ( very
simple, 3 colors) for over the table.  Questions I have are:  Has anyone done
anything like this?  Can I foil it together or do you think I need to add
brass or zinc?  Do I need two or three sockets?  Will the corresponding two
or three heat vents be enough to hold this thing together?  Obviously, I
don't know what I'm doing here?  Anyone have any suggestions?  Thanks.
 Barbara
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 02:44:03 1997
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Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
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> and any new guys will have high prices. though it seems you have mixed
> reviews on tiffany. it seems you know everything about him but don't
> care much for his work...why?

Not true, Mike. I actually like Tiffany Studios' work quite a bit. 
It's its current popularity that's a fad. Heck, we have a long way to 
go before glass is as popular again as it was in his day.

A

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 04:22:28 1997
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: My turn?
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:20:44 +0200
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At 18:37 20-04-97 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi Elizabeth,
>        Nice to have you back!  Out of plain curiosity, why don't you use
>the "strongline" reinforcing stuff?  I haven't worked in lead yet, but
>supposedly you can stick it in the heart.... I am just trying it in some

Lead has it=B4s own "strongline": lead with a strip of stainless steel in=
 the
heart. It serves the same function: easy (well...) bending aroung glass, no
bending in and out the glass surface.

But surely i=B4m not telling something new for ELisabeth here.

BTW light diffusion: here at the office they use a filter existing of little
boxes of aluminium. It diffuses the light perfectly.=20

About reinforcing: it seems to me that the only threat to your windows would
be if someone would close or open them to fast. Now this problem can be
solved by putting dampers on the door. I=B4m not sure if damper is the=
 correct
word, but i mean these rods with oil in them to make opening or closing a
door go very smooth and slow.

Hope this helps, and good luck,=20
Martin Streng.
"Hup daar is Willem met de waterpomptang"



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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 04:56:20 1997
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Subject: "Looking group" suggestions
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:55:44 -0400
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len alcamo wrote:
> <several snips>
> 
> Our now semi-lurker Anthony suggested formed wire a definite maybe.

I can see where this is headed, so please let me cut this off at the
pass. My LAST name is Anthony, my first name is SB (from an old college
nickname) or Pat (if you're my mother or the PTA), and just so you get a
good mental image -- I'm a middle aged mother of 3. Hope I didn't
disillusion anyone.

> How about if we have sort of a looking group  like a reading group only we
> find a cool window or lamp or dimensional piece  on the web  study it and
> post our observations to the list. Could be fun, no?

I spent some time trying to find web sites in response to our earlier
conversation. I didn't have much luck (we got to get those artists to
spend more time on their computers!), but came up with these two. Maybe
one of them would suit your purposes (Albert, are you listening?)

http://www.arts-online.com/ll.htm
 
Linda Lichtman.
This is not really a pageful, just one example of her work. You may not
like it, Len, it's almost all paint with little glasswork. But I really
like her stuff -- full of aboriginal imagery.

http://www.nqart.mexcom.net/
 
Narcissus Quagliata
Horrible web design (ALL those frames!! ), but one of the greats in
contemporary glass.

I tried but couldn't find anything on Patrick Reyntiens.

Hey, what happened to "peace and love"?
--SB
reformed lurker
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 05:27:15 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "Looking group" suggestions
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:33:11 +0000
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> I spent some time trying to find web sites in response to our earlier
> conversation. I didn't have much luck (we got to get those artists to
> spend more time on their computers!), but came up with these two. Maybe
> one of them would suit your purposes (Albert, are you listening?)

Uh-huh. Yep, I am. If you're looking for just about the most 
exhaustive list of glass sites available, it's already been created 
and has been available for some time ... and it's being continually 
updated on a daily basis.

Go to our home page (address below) and move down a bit, watching for 
the Glass Links logo and the comment, links to other sites. Then wait 
for the Big File <g> to download. It takes a minute or so.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 05:31:03 1997
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From: "Richard Stoker" <rstoker@nortel.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re:My turn??
Date: 21 Apr 1997 08:29 EDT
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In message "My turn?" sent on Apr20, glass@bungi.com writes:

>Clear glass is obvious, but I am thinking of some suitable textured 
>clear, so as to defract the spots/glare of the light tubes behind. 
>Any suggestions??

Toby, I recently had the same issue with a window I made for an entryway. 
I used a sheet of glue chip to back it up and was quite pleased with the 
way it difused the light coming from behind.

Regards, 
Richard Stoker
Turtle Bay Studios
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 06:00:34 1997
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From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: lead vs foil
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:53:08 -0400
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John, Toby and shyguy:

There was some confusion.  I was REPLYING to a posting about the
difficulty of getting patterns for lead.  "...most patterns are drawn
for foil"

Snipped too much

As for Ed Sibbett you will not get an argument from me.

Toby-were you making a jab at commercial patterns ?  There is a lot to
be said for them.  As a store owner we made up lots of commercial
patterns to promote the patterns themselves and/or techniques, glass,
and to add interest to the shop.  This is not to take away from glass
work.  BTW Oddy's windows are incredible.

Charles

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 06:10:51 1997
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From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Canadian Dealer
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:10:18 -0400 (GMT)
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Fusion Stained Glass, one of Canada's best stained glass studios and
suppliers, is now online at http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/fusion.
Visit for supply information, weekly specials, online newsletter, special
article on reinforcing and schedule of events, workshops and classes. 

================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 06:39:33 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Pool table lamp
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:37:22 -0400
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BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have long owed my husband a lamp for his pool table.  Not caring for any of
> the Worden versions, I'd like to make a version of a prairie lamp ( very
> simple, 3 colors) for over the table.  Questions I have are:  Has anyone done
> anything like this?  Can I foil it together or do you think I need to add
> brass or zinc?  Do I need two or three sockets?  Will the corresponding two
> or three heat vents be enough to hold this thing together?  Obviously, I
> don't know what I'm doing here?  Anyone have any suggestions?  Thanks.
>  Barbara
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well, let's see, i never made one of these yet, but this is what i'd
consider:

1. i think on long vent of some kind would be the strongest. though you
would have to invent something. if a metal frame was used it would
strenthen it up a bit. 

2. since it's prarie style it should'nt be to hard to rig up a fram
because of the straight sides. you could try making up a zinc or brass
(would be nicer), frame for the glass. then attach the lamp and chain
workings to that.

3. amount of lighting depends on you, how long it is, how low from the
ceiling it hangs (light hot spots), and color density of the glass.

4. before any planning goes to work, try sketching what it'll look like,
how it's look hanging, and the steps to build it.

5. after that, or during that, i'd look for every picture i can find, or
look at one in person and see how it's constructed. i'd also look at the
premolded ones and see what hanging method they used, maybe there's a
kit that you can incorporate into this lamp.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 06:46:58 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:45:06 -0400
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > and any new guys will have high prices. though it seems you have mixed
> > reviews on tiffany. it seems you know everything about him but don't
> > care much for his work...why?
> 
> Not true, Mike. I actually like Tiffany Studios' work quite a bit.
> It's its current popularity that's a fad. Heck, we have a long way to
> go before glass is as popular again as it was in his day.
> 
> A
> 


i don't think is or will be a fad. tiffany managed to become a household
name, unfortunally everything's been marked a tiffany. stained glass
people will still be copying his work, calling them 'reproductions'. but
in a hundred or so years todays artist will be the next tiffany. when
they threw out all that glass so long ago, they where in the moron
class. they had know idea what it was they were throwing out. and of
course like any other big artist, once your dead, your work goes way up
in price and popularity, because there won't be any more genuine pieces
made.

i was also think about the painting issue. maybe it's like this: tiffany
did'nt design or build alot of his windows, though he did do some
himself. maybe the ones he did himself, he used no paint. but the
employees used paint on their's, afterall they got to choose the glass
for the piece. i was looking at some of the work in one of my books, and
there is shading on a few of the trees that would have been very
difficult to do in any kind of glass. though i'm still wondering how he
did the sunset in that picture...

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 06:50:19 1997
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From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: Reply to tile molds
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:49:49 -0400 (GMT)
Message-ID: <199704211349.JAA18922@digital.net>
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"Hot Off The Presses."  Here are the directions for making mosaic coasters
with MosaicStone Cement on a per coaster basis.  The directions are from
DTI's new MosaicArt Book One and MosaicArt Book Two which includes patterns
for four new coaster shapes; hearts, circles, stars and hexagons plus
patterns for 14" hearts and 18" Mosaic Mural Walkways.  As always if you
have questions on any DTI products please call DTI at 800-937-9593, (813)
872-4404.  Enjoy.

Jennifer
Diamond Tech International
http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/dti

Mosaic Coasters
These are great fun and quick projects.  Forms use MosaicStone CementTM
(regular cement will crack).  The MosaicStone CementTM dries quickly to a
smooth white finish and is extremely durable.  Finishing top coat is
optional.  Self-adhesive felt may be applied to the back of the coasters. =
=20

Coaster Instructions
=B7 Prepare form by lightly coating inside edges with petroleum jelly.
=B7 Cut glass pieces from pattern. Tape glass pieces to pattern.
=B7 Cut a sheet of adhesive vinyl resist to size of pattern.  Lay sheet on=
 top
of cut glass.  Press vinyl firmly onto glass.  Rub vinyl  securely onto
piece edges.  This will keep the pieces from shifting when pouring the
MosaicStone CementTM.
=B7 Place glass/vinyl sheet into coaster form (vinyl side down).  Make any
piece adjustments necessary.
=B7 Mix 6 tablespoons of MosaicStone CementTM with 7 teaspoons of water per
coaster (adjustments may be necessary due to climate).  Consistency should
be equal to sour cream.
=B7 Slowly pour MosaicStone CementTM  into form.  Fill approxiametly 7/8=
 full.
Tap the bottom of the coaster to release any air bubbles.  Set coaster on a
flat level surface to dry.
=B7 Coaster dries within one hour (may vary due to climate). Do not allow
coaster to sit in form once hardened or clean up may be difficult.
=B7 When cement has hardened turn form upside down to release.  Raise one=
 edge
of form and tap coaster out.  Repeat on other edges until it has dropped=
 out.
=B7 Peel vinyl off glass. Fill in any air bubbles by mixing up a small=
 amount
of MosaicStone CementTM and rubbing it in a circular motion into any holes.
Clean off any smudged cement on glass or vinyl lines with wet sponge. =20
=B7 Lay waterproof medium grit sand paper on table.  Run bottom of coaster
along sand paper in a circular motion to smooth back. =20
=B7 Allow coaster to sit for 24 hours.

Copyright 1997 Diamond Tech International.  All Rights Reserved.


At 07:24 AM 4/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>=20
>>No one has mentioned using the 4 1/4" tile mold or the 24" tree ring
>>molds yet. I thought these were a good idea. The tile mold takes a
>>different kind of cement because it is so thin.=20
>
>I gave a class a while back using the tile molds and made some in advance
>luckily, because I had to do a LOT of experimenting to get them to come out
>right.  I used the Mosaic Stone Cement from Diamond Tech International.  I
>love the whiteness and brightness of this cement....worth the extra
>cost.....however I had to mix a LOT more cement than the instructions on
>the container said.  And the key to having them turn out seemed to be to
>keep them in the mold only long enough for them to become solid, but not
>dry.  There is some touching up to do on the underside after unmolding and
>this is best achieved when you can still use a damp rag to get the grunge
>off.  20-30 minutes is all that's needed for the tiles.
>
>Some of the problems I encountered were:
>	1)  the tile had a ridge around it because of the contact paper in the
>bottom of the mold.  It was solved by not keeping the cement in the mold
>longer than 20-30 minutes and wiping off the ridge with a washrag.
>	2) the cement soaked up the dye from the pattern underneath.  Solved by
>not using the pattern underneath.
>	3)  the tile fell apart completely when unmolded.  Solved by a better
>ratio of cement to water in the mix.  I ended up added cement in by
>teaspoonfuls until I got the consistency I needed...pourable, but very dry.
>	4)  the edges of the tile weren't crisp.  It came from using the contact
>paper up over the sides of the tile mold (to get rid of the ridges).  So I
>didn't do that again.
>
>I also experimented with the color additives from Latham.  The only color I
>tried was green, and I didn't like any of the tiles that I used it in.  It
>was a yellowy leaf green, not the current "green" in style these days.
>Even more white cement and less color didn't change the yellowness of it.
>When they say use only 1 tablespoon per tile, believe them...the darker
>tint is NOT pretty.
>
>Garden of Glass
>Joyce Moran
>
>Send your original patterns for the Bunginian Glass Pattern Atlas to:
>		Garden of Glass
>		501 N. Madriver St.
>		Bellefontaine, OH  43311
>or email joyce@mail.bright.net
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 08:25:42 1997
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From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Fw: Check This Out
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:31:23 -0500
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----------
> From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Check This Out
> Date: Sunday, April 20, 1997 8:59 PM
> 
> 
> 
> > > 
> > > Mike Savad wrote:
> > > >Now, how he does the flapping of the owl's wings...
> > > >that's another mystery.
> > > 
> > > I would think he applies foil to the back of the owl panel and
solders,
> so
> > > the wing movement is solder lines. ???? Wouldn't that work?
> > >> 
> > it would probably work if he used black backed foil, 
> 
> 
> Our now semi-lurker Anthony suggested formed wire a definite maybe.
> 
> Oddys' work really stirred up the pot around here, his work  sort of a
> cross between an assemblage' and applique'  was stimulating. Other list
> members were impressed, inspired, awestruck, motivated, captivated, 
> intimidated, curious  envious etc. Lots of interesting and though
provoking
> dialog about STAINED GLASS  came out of this thread some of the best
> *action* we've had for a while I believe.
> 
> How about if we have sort of a looking group  like a reading group only
we
> find a cool window or lamp or dimensional piece  on the web  study it and
> post our observations to the list. Could be fun, no? The trick might be
on
> how to decide on a piece to critique. Maybe one a month and let Albert
pick
> the first one, that would my choice.  Any opinions?
> 
> Len
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 08:26:42 1997
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From: "Robert E. Jones" <rejones@CapAccess.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:30:48 -0400 (EDT)
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Precedence: bulk

On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, M. Savad wrote:

> Albert Lewis wrote:
> > Tiffany claimed to not use any paint, but nearly all of his panels
> > are painted.
> 
> i think only his church windows, or anything with faces has the paint.
> everything else though was glass. like the drapes in the clothes, etc.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
I will now cut a lot out!

Tiffany had a guy, I forget his name--think it was Nash, who worked in his 
shop blowing glass.  Anyway, this guy could do amazing thinks on the end 
of the pipe.  A lot of tiffany's faces were done that way.  Nobody has 
ever been able to reproduce this method.

I forget were I read this, it was in one of the better chronicles of his 
life and work.

Bob


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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 09:01:38 1997
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From: WLester380@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Check This Out
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:01:03 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr21.813.0>
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Len wrote - Any opinions?

Len -
Opinions from this group?  Surely you jest!
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 09:10:57 1997
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From: WLester380@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: She's Here!
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:10:31 -0400 (EDT)
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Welcome, Rachael Emily!  May you be blessed with all of the best that this
world has to offer and protected from all else.
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 10:24:52 1997
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: re:My turn??
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:24:19 -0700
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Hi there...

Sounds like this is one of those pieces that's as much art as craft.  When
you're having the blacksmith design the sides of the "box", make sure that
he drills air holes in the top AND bottom... to allow air to circulate the
heat produced by the lamps away.

This sounds REALLY heavy...make sure that you use anchor bolts when
attaching this to the wall...and of course, make sure you are drilling into
beams.

As to the construction of the panel itself, I mostly do copper foil, so
can't comment on reinforcing lead came...someday I may be asking questions
about that myself.

I do like the idea of an extra glass panel protecting the back...make sure
that there's an air space between it and the panel itself (maybe 1/2" or
so).  That way, the 'sleepy caretaker' won't crack the extra panel by
shutting the door abruptly and jarring the extra sheet against the art panel.

Cheers

Carol
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 13:36:22 1997
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Subject: Re: She's Here!
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:35:40 -0400 (EDT)
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Racheal?  Emily?
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 13:50:07 1997
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:49:34 -0700
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>the panels to be fixed into and onto the wall. How I visualize these 
>frames is like a cupboard construction with a hinged door (i.e these 
>holding. the panels themselves), with the light fittings mounted on 
>the wall itself. 
>The hinge construction is for easy access to the light tubes, in case 
>one of them blows.
>
Here's another thought for you...came to me this aft. in the studio.  What
about hinging the whole 3 dimensional cabinet so it all swings away from the
wall on sturdy hinges, exposing the lamp bulbs and wiring for maintenance.

If you hinged the whole works, the 3 dimensional cabinet holding the glass
away from the way would provide considerable rigidity to the panel and also
serve as a protection against getting too close to the wood.

It's hard to describe this from the other side of the world, but think of
the top of a shoe box placed against the wall, and attached on one side with
hinges so the box lid can swing free.

...and why iron instead of wood?? Is this a design thing?

If frame were done in dark stained wood (or painted black) you would still
get strength but perhaps without as much weight, still obtaining the dark
look you're after.

Cheers

Carol
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 14:49:00 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
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Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
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> i don't think is or will be a fad.

Is stained glass a fad? 
How much stained glass was being done in the late 1800s when Tiffany 
was operating? Enormous amounts, so much so that more stained glass 
was installed in the last half of the 19th Century than had been 
installed during the previous 700 years. It was installed in homes, 
churches, public buildings, tenements, warehouses, train stations, 
you name it, it had stained glass.

How much was installed between 1920 and 1960? Not much.
How much was installed between 1960 and the present day? Much more 
than between 1920-1960, but not as much as in the late 1800s.

Does this suggest a certain "fashion"? A "style"? A "fad"?  Yes.

> tiffany managed to become a household
> name, unfortunally everything's been marked a tiffany. stained glass
> people will still be copying his work, calling them 'reproductions'.
> but in a hundred or so years todays artist will be the next tiffany.

Tiffany was an excellent self-promoter, true, so much so that he's 
become a household name and his moniker has become synonymous with 
stained glass in general, just as you ask for a kleenex without 
perhaps realizing that it used to be/still is a trademarked name: 
Kleenex. I agree that some of today's glass artists will be the 
equivalent of Tiffany in popularity in 100 years, if stained glass is 
popular in 100 years. Given the cyclic nature of things, it just 
might be ... in the meantime, however, a downturn in its popularity 
is just as assured as it was in the past.

> when they threw out all that glass so long ago, they where in the
> moron class. they had know idea what it was they were throwing out.

Hindsight's always 20/20, isn't it? What are we throwing away today 
that'll be worth lots of money or culturally valuable or collectible in 
30-40 years? I think we'd be very surprised.

> and of course like any other big artist, once your dead, your work
> goes way up in price and popularity, because there won't be any more
> genuine pieces made.

The work of all dead artists automatically goes up? Don't think so.

> i was also think about the painting issue. maybe it's like this: tiffany
> did'nt design or build alot of his windows, though he did do some
> himself. maybe the ones he did himself, he used no paint. but the
> employees used paint on their's, afterall they got to choose the glass
> for the piece.

You're just making this up, right? Please provide citations for the 
above claims; I'd really appreciate it. You won't find them, because 
what you're saying is an absolute and total fantasy, fabrication, and 
misleading to those who'd be interested in the facts of the matter.

As a matter of fact, the windows Tiffany himself designed are *heavily 
*painted. Open a book, Mike. Go to a museum. Get out of your room 
once in a while and stop just saying, "Well, maybe it was this way or 
maybe it was that way." You're doing nobody a favor by passing along 
fairy tales and making up more of your own.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 14:49:35 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
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Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
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> Tiffany had a guy, I forget his name--think it was Nash, who worked in his 
> shop blowing glass.  Anyway, this guy could do amazing thinks on the end 
> of the pipe.  A lot of tiffany's faces were done that way.  Nobody has 
> ever been able to reproduce this method.

Yes, Nash was the Englishman Tiffany hired to run his hot glass 
operation. There's only one known instance of what you speak of, 
however, in a panel at the Morse Gallery in Florida, and even that's 
not really a certainty, since it may merely be painted glass behind 
the plate. Unless one could pull the plate and examine the glass 
itself, we'll never know.  Do you know of any other instances?

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 15:26:53 1997
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Subject: Critique: was Check This Out
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:24:32 -0400
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>How about if we have sort of a looking group  like a reading group only we
>find a cool window or lamp or dimensional piece  on the web  study it and
>post our observations to the list. Could be fun, no? The trick might be on
>how to decide on a piece to critique. Maybe one a month and let Albert pick
>the first one, that would my choice.  Any opinions?
>
>Len

Yes, I think that's a good idea. I'm learning from this round on Oddy's work.
It might be better if the process remained spontaneous, though, as this one
was ... I mean, that should happen anyway. It makes sense that we would
share the urls of work we find on line ... maybe we just want to encourage
everyone to "surf and share" ... but frankly most of what I see out there
may be lovely stuff, but it wouldn't excite too much conversation,
probably, especially since so many of the people who participate most often
seem to be professionals. 

I look forward to more of this sort of exchange, though, and if we could
organize it as you're suggesting, Len, I think it's great.

M.-J.

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 15:26:53 1997
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Subject: RE: Check This Out
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:07:21 -0400
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>>MJ wrote, I would think he applies foil to the back of the owl
and PJ replied:


>Well he didn't fess up to applications.
>
>But you just don't put foil in the middle of a sheet of glass and solder it.

I will, of course, happily derfer to those with more knowledge than mine,
but my teacher showed us how to make animal eyes and other details rather
like that ... maybe I've missed a step ... so I thought it could work for
longer lines.

If I'm wrong, could someone please explain why not?

Thanks.

M.-J.

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 15:58:33 1997
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Subject: Foil lines on middle of glass
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:54:27 -0400
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Generally, if you put foil down the middle of a piece of glass, then
solder over it, the heat will crack the glass.  After some
experimenting, I can manage to put foil lines where I want them, by
pre-heating the glass.  Of course, you do this before putting that piece
into the main work, just in case it cracks.  On soldering two pieces
together, the 'run' of heat usually heats glass as you go, but that too
has been known to produce cracks, especially if you are going back over
the seams, later after it has cooled. 

Just my 2cents.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

 M.-J. wrote:

> >But you just don't put foil in the middle of a sheet of glass and solder it.
> 
> I will, of course, happily derfer to those with more knowledge than mine,
> but my teacher showed us how to make animal eyes and other details rather
> like that ... maybe I've missed a step ... so I thought it could work for
> longer lines.
> 
> If I'm wrong, could someone please explain why not?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> M.-J.
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 16:38:44 1997
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Subject: Elegant Lamps 2
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:34:37 -0400
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Hi Joyce, 

The book got here today, I am very pleased with it.  It has quite a few
'different' types of lamps, and I like the one that can also be made a
terrerium (sp)?  Now I have the set of 3 books.  I also notice that
several of the glass artists on line have made "Byron" from Front Page
of the Elegant Lamps Vol 1.  That is the one I am making now.  Since it
is for me, I have had to set it aside several times to do orders.  But I
am looking forward to finishing it, it will be on the low divider wall
between Dining area and living room.

It is done in peach tones, with bevels, and 'artique' champagne clear. 
Should be very pretty.  Thank you again,

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 16:48:57 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 23:57:32 +0000
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Dear SB - Reformed Lurker Extra-Ordinaire!!
And everyone else as well, of course,

(snip)
I tried but couldn't find anything on Patrick Reyntiens.

Patrick Reyntiens work is so much tied up with that of John Piper; 
you might try this.
Also various sites of his stained glass, e.g. Coventry Cathedral, 
Liverpool Cathedral, Derby Cathedral. It's possible that these 
churches have ventured into the 2oth century and got WEB-pages. Have 
a try!
After all, the Church wants us to believe in miraceles....
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 16:48:58 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Hi Charles,
My Ed Sibbett comment is a jab ONLY at Ed Sibbett, no-one else, ever. 
It also refers back to an old joke (probably last summer), when I was 
getting on my "hobby horse". Unfortunately, that was inevitably lost 
on those that have joined  the Group recently...
GOOD Commercial patterns ALWAYS have a place (... and please don't 
ask me for a definition of "good"    ;-)    )
I should know, because even if  I can design,  I can't draw. I have a 
hang-up about it and get teased by my Artist friends. Yet they 
constantly re-assure me by telling me that nothing in Art is new. We 
are constantly "borrowing" from something or someone that we 
subsequently make into our own. That - my friends tell me - is what 
Art is partially all about. I often go cap in hand to my Artist 
friends - when I'm stuck - to ask them "please, draw me a hand, draw me a foot". 
Which they then do for me with a benevolent smile, for me to go away and 
totally change their drawing around to fit into my stained glass 
project. If I want a lily, a whale or a frog, where do I go?  I 
explore my "commercial" patterns. Surely one of them will have a lily 
in them??? So I have at least a starting point and build up my design 
from there. I even "vandalize" my own old designs for images.  The 
current double Church design I am doing, has a dove in it that I 
laboured on some years ago. It's changed a little, but the basic dove 
has the same source. I have also virtually lifted a lyre from a 
previous pure musical design and re-used it again in this design 
(because it works - even though it is a pig to cut) And so on and so 
on.
I hope my explanation has managed to temper somewhat what could have 
been interpreted as a flippant and arrogant statement. That wasn't 
meant.
And thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt...    :-)
...Must check out "Oddy's" site. Hadn't recovered when that one 
exploded...
BTW - Toby is my "sleeping partner". He sleeps a lot and enjoys 
digging the garden. You can say hello to him on my WEB-page as well 
as saying "hello" to a very small selection of my "photogenically 
successful" stained glass.The ones on my WEB page are not necessarily 
my best ones, but the photographs are, if you see what I mean. 
Commercially I must have made about 400 - 500 panels by now, varying 
in size from 1 sq.ft to  about 75 sq.ft, all in lead. I am still 
learning.

When Kathe and Peggy cane over, they brought offerings of new pattern 
books to me and new "gizmos" (well new to me anyhow!)
Mike Savad, you have totally won me over about the "Ringstar" you 
were waxing lyrical about a while ago.
... Got one TOO!!!!!   :-)
AND have been taught how to use it properly!!!!
Even an "Old Dog " like me is not totally unreceptive to the odd new 
trick or two!!! Hate to admit it, but I quite like it .
I am Elisabeth (most of the time)
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Charles wrote:
As for Ed Sibbett you will not get an argument from me.

Toby-were you making a jab at commercial patterns ?  There is a lot to
be said for them.  As a store owner we made up lots of commercial
patterns to promote the patterns themselves and/or techniques, glass,
and to add interest to the shop.  This is not to take away from glass
work. 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 16:49:01 1997
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Hi Charles, SB, Shyguy  and other "Lead Candidates",

There is an EVEN easier way to draw LEAD designs (and in deed 
"translate" copper foil designs to lead).
Virtually ALL lead sizes have the SAME heart size, namely 2 mm (with 
one or two rare exceptions).
Check through your black felt tip pens (or get a new one) that draw 
an ink line which is exactly 2 mm thick consistently. Now you draw 
your design out (or trace over from the copper foil design).
Hey Presto!
When you CUT your glass, always take care to ALWAYS cut INSIDE your 2 
mm heart-line, to the point where you can almost see the white of the 
paper  before the black line.
Hope this helps. Let me know how you get on!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby

you wrote:
<snip>
> And you can run into problems
> at the edges using lead in some designs because the heart of the lead
> interferes with the glass placement. If you doubt this, draw a pattern
> of diamonds and try leading it -- you have to allow for the heart of the
> lead in the design or you go crazy trying to figure out why it won't
> fit. 

I found a trick when I first started lead - when you get two pieces of
lead joining at a narrow angle - cut a small piece of the heart of one
or both pieces - I found the hint in a book of victorian patterns. Some
of them have been real fun to lead up.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 17:00:05 1997
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From: ANLGlass@aol.com
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Subject: painting without firing
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:59:30 -0400 (EDT)
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I guess this is appropriate timing, after the extended discussion about
Tiffany
and his glass painting!

I was asked to reproduce an old stained glass panel from a picture.  There's
a
ribbon winding through the piece with a saying on it.  It appears to be
painted.
I know most glass painting requires kiln-firing, but since I don't have a
kiln ...
how well do the paints work that require only low-level firing?  A shop owner
suggested Deka paint, fired in the oven at about 275.  Does that work, and is
it reasonably durable?  Are there other good alternatives?

He's also amenable to having it etched or blasted.  Only problem there is
that I don't have a blasting box either ...

Sigh.  I wish Christmas or my birthday were closer so I could beg for some
new toys!

Marilyn Kaminski
A New Light
anlglass@aol.com
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 17:22:50 1997
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Subject: Re: painting without firing
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> I know most glass painting requires kiln-firing, but since I don't have a
> kiln ...
> how well do the paints work that require only low-level firing? 

Both Tiffany and La Farge (and a millyun others) also used cold paint 
(read "oil paint" in most cases), which when "sandwiched" between 
plates holds up rather well through the generations.

They didn't discover that application, though. It's an old one.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 17:28:12 1997
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:27:48 -0400
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Got back today from a about a week away to find out there must have been
a full moon or strange effects of Hale-bopp or something going on.
Sorting through 257 message with some of that crap was not the way I had
hoped to spend this evening. Seems people forgot to discuss glass but
sure took it out on each other.  Sure enjoyed Skips comments, long
winded as they were. By the way Skip, welcome from another mainly
lurker.    Lets get back to glass without the bickering and hopefully no
replies to these comments to take up more space!! (unless of course they
are edited ;-} )


Doug Scale
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 17:39:44 1997
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Subject: Glenna's email, please
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:38:50 -0400
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Glenna, 

I have a question for you please, but am away from my home computer and
address book, so could you please send me a reply (to athena@bridge.net)?

Thanks.

MJ

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 18:12:06 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
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Subject: Re: Critique: 
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:10:42 -0500 (CDT)
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A
>
>Yes, I think that's a good idea. I'm learning from this round on Oddy's work.
>It might be better if the process remained spontaneous, though, as this one
>was ... 
>
>I look forward to more of this sort of exchange, 

>
>M.-J.
>

Your probably right M,-J., any attempt at a concensus would probably spark
off a new round of off topic meanderings. Best to stick with our usual
semi-controlled anarchy. :-)

Len


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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 19:07:14 1997
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From: suzannne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
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Subject: Re: painting without firing
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 22:08:15 -0400
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For Marilyn Kaminski, A New Light:

>how well do the paints work that require only low-level firing?  A shop owner
>suggested Deka paint, fired in the oven at about 275.  Does that work, and is
>it reasonably durable?  Are there other good alternatives?

I have used Deka paint, black only, as directed, waiting 24 hours after 
painting before firing in the oven at 275 for 1/2 hour, mostly for "eyes" 
on animals etc. As far as I know, they are still intact, have not heard 
anything different from any of the people who have bought the work. I 
hear that "Glass Magic" which look like fingernail polish bottles, by 
Eastman Corp., work well but have not tried them. I have a bottle of 
white in store for when the occasion arises. These come in a variety of 
colors, glitter also, and claim to be good for both glass and solder. I 
see them at my glass supplier. The Deka paint I had to find in an art 
supply store. Good Luck. Let me know how you do!





suzanne albright<suzy@comcat.com>

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 19:18:12 1997
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From: "The Moore's" <skipm1@mc.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Stepping Stone Price Data
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:18:09 -0500
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Well, the information return wasn't the greatest (probably lost a few
people getting to the bottom of the original post), but here's what
we've gotten so far (and thanks, of course, to those who sent data):

4"x8"      No data
8"x8"      $35  (1 respondent)
14" round  $100 - $225 (1 respondent (me))
16" hex    $75 to $250 (3 respondents, data= 75,80,100,150,250)
Others     BIG square, moon-shapes, tree ring  -- no data

This doesn't include data from known web sites (the recent Arizona one
is obviously on the high side, I recall another (don't have the address
handy) that was also on the high side for the 14 & 16's).

This "stats collection" idea was rather interesting, I was wondering if
anyone is interested in having a sort of "question of the week", the
idea being that I'll send out a question on the weekend and report back
the responses the following weekend (though i can't guarantee 52
weekends per year).

Thoughts? PLEASE reply to my personal e-mail -- skipm1@mc.net !

Later,
- Skip
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 20:13:27 1997
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Subject: Re: lead vs foil
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:11:49 -0500 (CDT)
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On 04/19/97 17:55:02 you wrote:
>you wrote

">Hi Charles,
>	There's not always a lot of difference between the two."


I don't really agree with this thought. In many ways foil and lead are quite different and require the development of different skills. Though similar effects can be achieved using both mediums caming lends itself to certain looks more than foil. Lead came ( not to slight zinc, brass, copper, clads, or other variations on the theme ) come in sizes from 3/32" to 3" ( and I may not even be covering all of the sizes. This wide array of lead sizes allows for a lot of design freedom using the line as a design element. Let us not forget that part of the art glass design is the control of light in the negative areas. These are just as important as the transmited light regions. The consistency of the dimension of this line is an important factor in the decision to use came over foil. Another major difference in foil vs came is limitation in panel size. Though I am sure that there are ways to create large panels safely with foil, it is often not practical. Another major consideration i!
s the fundamental difference in 
the way the glass and the matrix are related. In a foil piece the glass is bonded directly to the matrix with no room to move. In a camed piece the glass is in effect glazed into the came with room to move about. 

and:
"I just know some of the problems I've run into by ignoring the lead heart in designs and by trying to lead small, complicated pieces. And you can run into problems at the edges using lead in some designs because the heart of the lead interferes with the glass placement."



As I said cameing requires the devolopment of a whole different set of skills. 
 

"you have to allow for the heart of the lead in the design or you go crazy trying to figure out why it won't fit. I've done it. But in foil you can just follow the drawn lines."


This is why many workers in came use patterns and pattern shears which cut out for the heart of the lead. The skillful pattern cutter will dictate, (and follow) the most effect flow of the lead lines and there intesections and relations. 


This craft/art is open to many interpretations, this is what makes it so wonderful and diverse. The only rule there is in this field is that there are no rules, and if anyone tries to make some there is someone who will break them


ms
>
>



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From owner-glass Mon Apr 21 22:38:31 1997
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From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: another site
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 01:37:56 -0400
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Here is an address for Vicki Payne (Cutters):  www.foryourhome.com

I am told there is a chat room at 2:00 PM on Wednesdays.

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 03:45:02 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
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Subject: Foiling Machines
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:43:41 -0400 (EDT)
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Hi Guys!  (no offense to women, just Phila. slang coming out)
Just wanted to thank everyone for their input on foiling machines.  I never
thought it would spark so much controversy!  I will be making my decision
shortly on which to buy.
Also, thank you for the Delphi address and the person who corrected me, very
gently I might add, regarding the URL not being the address.
Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com)
Eureka! Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 06:28:34 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: painting without firing
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:28:05 +0000
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>
>I was asked to reproduce an old stained glass panel from a picture.  There's
>a
>ribbon winding through the piece with a saying on it.  It appears to be
>painted.
>I know most glass painting requires kiln-firing, but since I don't have a
>kiln ...
>how well do the paints work that require only low-level firing?  A shop owner
>suggested Deka paint, fired in the oven at about 275.  Does that work, and is
>it reasonably durable?  Are there other good alternatives?
>
>He's also amenable to having it etched or blasted.  Only problem there is
>that I don't have a blasting box either ...
>
>Sigh.  I wish Christmas or my birthday were closer so I could beg for some
>new toys!
>
>Marilyn Kaminski


Marilyn,

I have made a few commercial signs out of stained glass using non-firing
paints, but the oldest one is only 7-8 years old.  On that one I used
Spectrum opal white waterglass and sandblasted the letters in the glass,
fairly deep, maybe 1/32 inch.  Then I oversprayed with black epoxy paint
(sold at hardware stores as appliance touch-up paint).  I visited the store
just a few weeks ago and the sign still looks good.  But, I still don't
believe it's going to be as durable as fired on paints.  Just thought I'd
toss in my 2 cents.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 06:46:18 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
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Subject: Re: My turn?
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:44:17 -0400
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Carol Swann wrote:
> 
> >the panels to be fixed into and onto the wall. How I visualize these
> >frames is like a cupboard construction with a hinged door (i.e these
> >holding. the panels themselves), with the light fittings mounted on
> >the wall itself.
> >The hinge construction is for easy access to the light tubes, in case
> >one of them blows.
> >
> Here's another thought for you...came to me this aft. in the studio.  What
> about hinging the whole 3 dimensional cabinet so it all swings away from the
> wall on sturdy hinges, exposing the lamp bulbs and wiring for maintenance.
> 
> If you hinged the whole works, the 3 dimensional cabinet holding the glass
> away from the way would provide considerable rigidity to the panel and also
> serve as a protection against getting too close to the wood.
> 
> It's hard to describe this from the other side of the world, but think of
> the top of a shoe box placed against the wall, and attached on one side with
> hinges so the box lid can swing free.
> 
> ...and why iron instead of wood?? Is this a design thing?
> 
> If frame were done in dark stained wood (or painted black) you would still
> get strength but perhaps without as much weight, still obtaining the dark
> look you're after.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Carol
> Synergy Glass & Creative
> 


mainly i think because iron is stronger than wood. wood tends to bow,
warp, etc. especially if there's a heavy glass thing in it.

---Mike Savad


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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 06:49:38 1997
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Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:47:44 -0400
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > i don't think is or will be a fad.
> 
> Is stained glass a fad?
> How much stained glass was being done in the late 1800s when Tiffany
> was operating? Enormous amounts, so much so that more stained glass
> was installed in the last half of the 19th Century than had been
> installed during the previous 700 years. It was installed in homes,
> churches, public buildings, tenements, warehouses, train stations,
> you name it, it had stained glass.
> 
> How much was installed between 1920 and 1960? Not much.
> How much was installed between 1960 and the present day? Much more
> than between 1920-1960, but not as much as in the late 1800s.
> 
> Does this suggest a certain "fashion"? A "style"? A "fad"?  Yes.
> 
> > tiffany managed to become a household
> > name, unfortunally everything's been marked a tiffany. stained glass
> > people will still be copying his work, calling them 'reproductions'.
> > but in a hundred or so years todays artist will be the next tiffany.
> 
> Tiffany was an excellent self-promoter, true, so much so that he's
> become a household name and his moniker has become synonymous with
> stained glass in general, just as you ask for a kleenex without
> perhaps realizing that it used to be/still is a trademarked name:
> Kleenex. I agree that some of today's glass artists will be the
> equivalent of Tiffany in popularity in 100 years, if stained glass is
> popular in 100 years. Given the cyclic nature of things, it just
> might be ... in the meantime, however, a downturn in its popularity
> is just as assured as it was in the past.
> 
> > when they threw out all that glass so long ago, they where in the
> > moron class. they had know idea what it was they were throwing out.
> 
> Hindsight's always 20/20, isn't it? What are we throwing away today
> that'll be worth lots of money or culturally valuable or collectible in
> 30-40 years? I think we'd be very surprised.
> 
> > and of course like any other big artist, once your dead, your work
> > goes way up in price and popularity, because there won't be any more
> > genuine pieces made.
> 
> The work of all dead artists automatically goes up? Don't think so.
> 
> > i was also think about the painting issue. maybe it's like this: tiffany
> > did'nt design or build alot of his windows, though he did do some
> > himself. maybe the ones he did himself, he used no paint. but the
> > employees used paint on their's, afterall they got to choose the glass
> > for the piece.
> 
> You're just making this up, right? Please provide citations for the
> above claims; I'd really appreciate it. You won't find them, because
> what you're saying is an absolute and total fantasy, fabrication, and
> misleading to those who'd be interested in the facts of the matter.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the windows Tiffany himself designed are *heavily
> *painted. Open a book, Mike. Go to a museum. Get out of your room
> once in a while and stop just saying, "Well, maybe it was this way or
> maybe it was that way." You're doing nobody a favor by passing along
> fairy tales and making up more of your own.
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
> (914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
> _________________________________________________________
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]
> 
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this is what i heard, this is what i've seen, stop picking at it! so
what makes you the tiffany expert anyway?

---Mike Savad

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 06:56:48 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: lead vs foil
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:54:57 -0400
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Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Charles,
> My Ed Sibbett comment is a jab ONLY at Ed Sibbett, no-one else, ever.
> It also refers back to an old joke (probably last summer), when I was
> getting on my "hobby horse". Unfortunately, that was inevitably lost
> on those that have joined  the Group recently...
> GOOD Commercial patterns ALWAYS have a place (... and please don't
> ask me for a definition of "good"    ;-)    )
> I should know, because even if  I can design,  I can't draw. I have a
> hang-up about it and get teased by my Artist friends. Yet they
> constantly re-assure me by telling me that nothing in Art is new. We
> are constantly "borrowing" from something or someone that we
> subsequently make into our own. That - my friends tell me - is what
> Art is partially all about. I often go cap in hand to my Artist
> friends - when I'm stuck - to ask them "please, draw me a hand, draw me a foot".
> Which they then do for me with a benevolent smile, for me to go away and
> totally change their drawing around to fit into my stained glass
> project. If I want a lily, a whale or a frog, where do I go?  I
> explore my "commercial" patterns. Surely one of them will have a lily
> in them??? So I have at least a starting point and build up my design
> from there. I even "vandalize" my own old designs for images.  The
> current double Church design I am doing, has a dove in it that I
> laboured on some years ago. It's changed a little, but the basic dove
> has the same source. I have also virtually lifted a lyre from a
> previous pure musical design and re-used it again in this design
> (because it works - even though it is a pig to cut) And so on and so
> on.


another place to find patterns is magazines. i can sketch things out,
but when it comes to animals or anything else, they don't look like what
i'm imagining. so i collect pictures from every source usally color.
catagorize them, and use them when needed. my mother first started it
for her paintings, i now have my own section of things i can use in
glass. if i need a dove, look under birds, then i'll maye a basic
tracing using a light box or an opaque projector. that's how i did all
the butterflies, fish, trees, flowers, etc.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

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 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 07:00:41 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: painting without firing
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:58:53 -0400
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ANLGlass@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I guess this is appropriate timing, after the extended discussion about
> Tiffany
> and his glass painting!
> 
> I was asked to reproduce an old stained glass panel from a picture.  There's
> a
> ribbon winding through the piece with a saying on it.  It appears to be
> painted.
> I know most glass painting requires kiln-firing, but since I don't have a
> kiln ...
> how well do the paints work that require only low-level firing?  A shop owner
> suggested Deka paint, fired in the oven at about 275.  Does that work, and is
> it reasonably durable?  Are there other good alternatives?
> 
> He's also amenable to having it etched or blasted.  Only problem there is
> that I don't have a blasting box either ...
> 
> Sigh.  I wish Christmas or my birthday were closer so I could beg for some
> new toys!
> 
> Marilyn Kaminski
> A New Light
> anlglass@aol.com
> ----
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Deka is pretty durable even when it is'nt fired. i hav'nt tried to fire
it yet, but my guess would be that it'll be pretty strong. you can buy a
bottle and experiment, i guess.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 07:05:11 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: painting without firing
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:02:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr22.6224.0>
References: <<199704220206.WAA12226@uz.comcat.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

suzannne albright wrote:
> 
> For Marilyn Kaminski, A New Light:
> 
> >how well do the paints work that require only low-level firing?  A shop owner
> >suggested Deka paint, fired in the oven at about 275.  Does that work, and is
> >it reasonably durable?  Are there other good alternatives?
> 
> I have used Deka paint, black only, as directed, waiting 24 hours after
> painting before firing in the oven at 275 for 1/2 hour, mostly for "eyes"
> on animals etc. As far as I know, they are still intact, have not heard
> anything different from any of the people who have bought the work. I
> hear that "Glass Magic" which look like fingernail polish bottles, by
> Eastman Corp., work well but have not tried them. I have a bottle of
> white in store for when the occasion arises. These come in a variety of
> colors, glitter also, and claim to be good for both glass and solder. I
> see them at my glass supplier. The Deka paint I had to find in an art
> supply store. Good Luck. Let me know how you do!
> 
> suzanne albright<suzy@comcat.com>
> 
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that's because they are nail polish, you would think they would put it
into a different jar or something. paint that sticks to glass that i've
been using are these: Deka, nailpolish, model paint, all these work on
glass and metal.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 08:07:28 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: painting without firing
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:11:19 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970422101119.00690e9c@busprod.com>
References: <<1997Apr21.155930.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

>...I know most glass painting requires kiln-firing, but since I don't have a
>kiln ...
>how well do the paints work that require only low-level firing?...

Marilyn...
I've used the Deka Transparent paints for about a year now with no
problems. They're advertised as the paint that doesn't need firing...I'll
see how long they hold up!

I obtained mine from Delphi because I couldn't find a local shop that
carried them. The cost is $3.95 for a 20ml bottle. I've used the black,
white, and green. 
Good luck...LJ 
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 08:43:32 1997
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From: Scott and Gael <exotic@lobo.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Canadian Dealer
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:21:50 -0600
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970422142150.0067dc7c@lobo.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 09:10 AM 4/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Fusion Stained Glass, one of Canada's best stained glass studios and
>suppliers, is now online at http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/fusion.
>Visit for supply information, weekly specials, online newsletter, special
>article on reinforcing and schedule of events, workshops and classes. 


tried to visit your web site, got a not found.  ??
Myrddn

Create a safe space, and someone will carry in a gun anyway

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 09:00:40 1997
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: painting without firing
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:19:09 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr22.1199.0>
References: <<199704220021.UAA19776@ns.computer.net>>
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Precedence: bulk

Subject:  Tiffany. I assume the comments about Tiffany are based on books
written about him.  What are some of the really good books?  Tiffany
started out as a painter and only later started working in glass.  Of
course he has his father's resources to help pave the way for all of his
experimentation.  Regardless, he did invent the copper foil method.  I
know the group has indicated the quiet years about stained glass, but I
found out that copper foil with adhesive has only been around since the
early '70's and glass grinders after that.  Most of us would never have
gotten started if we had had to cut with standard glass cutters and use
groziers to shape the glass.  

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 09:19:14 1997
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From: "last name: Anthony" <panthony@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
Subject: More sites
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:17:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr22.81741.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970422101119.00690e9c@busprod.com>>
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http://www.avsi.com/avalanche/company/robin/morris/tc2a.html
http://www.jlsloan.com/flw.htm
http://www.vcomm.net/~amorgan/builder.html


for what it's worth
--SB
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 09:20:46 1997
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X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:      Staine glass a fad?
Date:         Tue, 22 Apr 97 12:11:21 EDT
Message-ID:   <970422.122008.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

And well you may ask, what is "staine glass"?  Well, I obviously forgot to
type the accent..staine'...I'm sure that clears that up.  Now from the
frivolous to the silly...have you ever noticed that on TV, especially
sitcoms, everyone  has stained glass windows and lamps and door panels?
Why can't a few of these funny families move into my neighborhood?

Maybe tonight I'll finish the mirror from hell.  You name it, I've managed to
mess it up on this mirror.  Somehow didn't square it...took it apart...
put hanging loops on the wrong side...etc..etc...  And betwixt and between
I'm fine.  it's just this one little project!  i think it's cursed.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 09:20:47 1997
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From: "last name: Anthony" <panthony@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
Subject: glass history
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:20:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr22.8201.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970422101119.00690e9c@busprod.com>>
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sorry, forgot this one:
http://www.truark.com/gsz/glashist.htm
--SB
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 10:04:36 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Canadian Dealer
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:00:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr22.9033.0>
References: <<1.5.4.32.19970422142150.0067dc7c@lobo.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Got right on at this URL, sometimes the web is just busy, or a glitch in
the wires is all that is wrong. 
Just try again a little later.
Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/fusion.

> tried to visit your web site, got a not found.  ??
> Myrddn
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 10:10:41 1997
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From: "Lerner, Frank M (NM75)" <frank.lerner@das.honeywell.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Staine glass a fad?
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:10:26 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr22.51026.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Don't feel bad.  I picked up a sheet of Yokagheny glass that I paid $75
for and watched it explode right before my eyes. I didn't bump it, just
held it wrong.

>----------
>From: 	mail[SMTP:HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu]
>Sent: 	Tuesday, April 22, 1997 10:11AM
>To: 	glass@bungi.com
>Subject: 	Staine glass a fad?
>
>> the accent..staine'...I'm sure that clears that up.  Now from the
>>frivolous to the silly...have you ever noticed that on TV, especially
>>sitcoms, everyone  has stained glass windows and lamps and door panels?
>>Why can't a few of these funny families move into my neighborhood?
>
>>Maybe tonight I'll finish the mirror from hell.  You name it, I've managed
>>to
>>mess it up on this mirror.  Somehow didn't square it...took it apart...
>>put hanging loops on the wrong side...etc..etc...  And betwixt and between
>>I'm fine.  it's just this one little project!  i think it's cursed.
>
>--
>Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
>UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
>HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 10:20:20 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: painting without firing
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:19:44 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704221719.NAA00987@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Peggy wrote,

  
<<, but I >found out that copper foil with adhesive has only been around
since the
>early '70's and glass grinders after that>>
. And we survived too!!!!! 

<< Most of us would never have gotten started if we had had to cut with
standard glass cutters and use >groziers to shape the glass.  >> 

 Well I must admit to living with groziers and a stone in my hand for quite
a few years.  And I am no worse for the wear!!!!
I find that really a sad comment that most would not have gotten started
without all of the admentities of the 90's.  Doesn't say much for that "art"
does it?  I also think alot of people wouldn't be working with glass if it
wasn't for pattern books!!!!!!.
Just a personal opinion. (ducking as she sends her email!!!)
my best,
pj
>
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>
>

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 10:30:23 1997
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From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Staine glass a fad?
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:31:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr22.73150.0>
References: <<970422.122008.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

> ...have you ever noticed that on TV, especially
> sitcoms, everyone  has stained glass windows and lamps and door panels?

I don't watch television (except for research), but appreciate TV
helping to popularize our medium.  Finished an order recently for a
panel "Just like Grace's front door".  I am currently looking for the
molds and patterns to two "TV" lamps.  I need the patterns for "Murphy
Brown's" large floor lamp and Sipowitz's ("NYPD Blue") white table lamp.

Any ideas on who makes these molds and patterns?  

Thanks gang!
Shirley & a 19" TV 
Grapeland, Tx.
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 10:53:01 1997
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From: "Robert E. Jones" <rejones@CapAccess.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy & some history of S.G.
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:57:11 -0400 (EDT)
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References: <<199704212148.RAA11960@ns.computer.net>>
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Precedence: bulk

On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:

> Yes, Nash was the Englishman Tiffany hired to run his hot glass 
> operation. There's only one known instance of what you speak of, 
> however, in a panel at the Morse Gallery in Florida, and even that's 
> not really a certainty, since it may merely be painted glass behind 
> the plate. Unless one could pull the plate and examine the glass 
> itself, we'll never know.  Do you know of any other instances?

The book, I wish I could remeber the name, said that "a lot" of the faces 
and flower and leaves that were used, were done this way.  Again this is 
just info thaat I read while in college doing research 15 years ago 
(hence the memory lapse)
I do remember that Tiffany hired him, BECAUSE he could do this.  Nash's 
son who also worked there, could not even replicate this work.

Bob


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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 11:08:47 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: exploding glass
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:07:22 -0500 (CDT)
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At 11:10 AM 4/22/97 -0600, Lerner, Frank M (NM75) wrote:
>Don't feel bad.  I picked up a sheet of Yokagheny glass that I paid $75
>for and watched it explode right before my eyes. I didn't bump it, just
>held it wrong.


You might not have held it wrong Frank, there could have been a poorly
annealed area causing a release of internal tension, or it might of had a
small check in it, thats all it takes for a sheet to go bye-bye.

When I handle a large sheet for the first time I always grasp it by the top
edge between my thumb and fingers hold it away from my body and give it a
pretty good back and forth jiggle if it's going to go, it will usually go
then. It doesn't make you feel any better about loosing the sheet but at
least you avoid the dreaded guilotine effect.

Len

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 11:31:35 1997
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From: "Robert E. Jones" <rejones@CapAccess.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: painting without firing
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:35:38 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr22.103538.0>
References: <<199704221719.NAA00987@water.waterw.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, pj friend wrote:

> << Most of us would never have gotten started if we had had to cut with
> standard glass cutters and use >groziers to shape the glass.  >> 
> 
>  Well I must admit to living with groziers and a stone in my hand for quite
> a few years.  And I am no worse for the wear!!!!
> I find that really a sad comment that most would not have gotten started
> without all of the admentities of the 90's.  Doesn't say much for that "art"
> does it?  I also think alot of people wouldn't be working with glass if it
> wasn't for pattern books!!!!!!.
> Just a personal opinion. (ducking as she sends her email!!!)

I say this with with a smile upon my face, does anyone who thinks that 
all the gadgets are ruining the craft, think that Tiffany was some type 
of evel doer for not liking lead came and using copper foil.  This was a 
newer and easier way then.  These items (grinders and adhesive backed 
copper foil) are just the next steps in stained glass.

An analogy here, how much more would your house have cost if the builder 
used hand tool rather than power tools?

I do stained glass as a hobby, and I view it as a "craft" since I have no 
real artistic ability.  It is something, that if practised enough, one 
can become proficent at.  To those of you who can design and pick colors 
from your head, I commend you.  These are not things I like to do unless 
I have to.  I would rather spend my time putting a piece together than 
designing it.  

Again to flame or evil intent intended.  Just don't come down on those of 
us who do it this way. PALEEZE! ;-}

Bob


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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 11:49:56 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: (no subject)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:52:29 -0600
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No mail in so long...  Have I somehow been deleted from the list?  -Debi
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 11:54:08 1997
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From: The Crew <pristine@gr.cns.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: exploding glass
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 02:54:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr21.22540.0>
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Pristine Glass Co.
Precedence: bulk

I do the same but hit the glass gently, effectively ringing it like a
bell. The sound can tell you if any runs have started.

len alcamo wrote:
> When I handle a large sheet for the first time I always grasp it by the top
> edge between my thumb and fingers hold it away from my body and give it a
> pretty good back and forth jiggle if it's going to go, it will usually go
> then....<snip> 
> Len
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 12:03:36 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Stepping Stones
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:02:55 -0700
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We are considering adding a cement patio onto the end of our house
this summer.  If I make stepping stones and let them set up.  When we
pour the cement for the patio can I then just place the already made
stones in the wet cement for decoration.  Would they later pop out with
our cold winters in Washington state?  Or would it even work that way
with shrinkage, etc. of the wet cement around already hardened cement
stones.  I have never made a stepping stone before and this would be one
way I could put them to use if it will work.  
     I was in Wenatchee, Washington yesterday and stopped at a new
stained glass store that a friend told me about.  Hadn't been in there
long and the owners and I struck up a conversation which led to "Are you
on the Bungi site?"  He was awestuck, as was I when we both discovered
we were meeting a real live Bungian.  It was Dave and Lynn Loda who had
moved there from Newport, Oregon and were setting up this shop?  Had a
real nice visit and even bought some glass and a gizmo.  Their business
is Art Glass of Wenatchee and they were very accomodating even though
all of thier shipments weren't in yet.  They even placed a special order
for me.  Are there any more Bungians in Washington state?  Good luck in
your new business Dave and Lynn Loda and I'll be back.
                      Bonnie Clark
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 12:17:40 1997
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Subject: Stained Glass Bloopers?????
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:13:43 -0400
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My Blooper is putting together a 'lantern' getting it all soldered
together, and forgot to hinge a door into it.  Nice Closed Box--------
Took off the top and now it is a vase.  Looks great as a vase.  Someday,
I will try that design again, but do the soldering in the morning when
not so tired   ;-)

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

> >>Maybe tonight I'll finish the mirror from hell.  You name it, I've managed
> >>to
> >>mess it up on this mirror.  Somehow didn't square it...took it apart...
> >>put hanging loops on the wrong side...etc..etc...  And betwixt and between
> >>I'm fine.  it's just this one little project!  i think it's cursed.
> >Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 14:03:56 1997
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Subject: Re: Mr.Oddy..Not a discussion anymore!!!
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:03:16 -0400 (EDT)
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> > i don't think is or will be a fad.
> 
> Is stained glass a fad?

<< this is what i heard, this is what i've seen, stop picking at it! so
 what makes you the tiffany expert anyway?
  >>
You know, I signed on this list a year ago and do to a move had to sign off.
I enjoyed the information I was able to pick up and the tips and tricks of
the trade. However...

It seems like a big game of king of the hill now. I think that Mike and Alber
both have so much to offer this group, but can't get past their pissing
contest. It's really too bad. You two are both very smart and obviously know
about glass, why can't you just get beyond it and quit trying to be top dog. 

I'm unsubscribing from bungi. Maybe I'll try again next year and see if
anyone grew up.

Janet
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 14:32:00 1997
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Subject: Re: Stained Glass Bloopers?????
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:30:08 -0400
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leestat7 wrote:
> 
> My Blooper is putting together a 'lantern' getting it all soldered
> together, and forgot to hinge a door into it.  Nice Closed Box--------
> Took off the top and now it is a vase.  Looks great as a vase.  Someday,
> I will try that design again, but do the soldering in the morning when
> not so tired   ;-)
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> 
> > >>Maybe tonight I'll finish the mirror from hell.  You name it, I've managed
> > >>to
> > >>mess it up on this mirror.  Somehow didn't square it...took it apart...
> > >>put hanging loops on the wrong side...etc..etc...  And betwixt and between
> > >>I'm fine.  it's just this one little project!  i think it's cursed.
> > >Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan
> ----
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maybe you can alter it's design so instead of the lamp hanging from the
top, you flip it over and let it hang from the bottom. install a socket
in the bottom, and insert the bulb from the top (which is now the
bottom). 

and the mirror problem, (from the last message), maybe if the mirror
breaks it'll give you 7 years good luck... :)

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 14:35:06 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Staine glass a fad?
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:41:14 +0000
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> I don't watch television (except for research), but appreciate TV

And here I've been saying for years that "I'm just lettin' my brains 
fall out."! From now on, I'll say I'm "doing research."  Thanks! <g>

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 14:35:08 1997
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> sorry, forgot this one:
> http://www.truark.com/gsz/glashist.htm

Interesting approach on this site to the copyright question, which 
seems to be, "As long as I put the original author's/publisher's 
copyright declaration on what I've lifted from their book/CDROM or 
whatever, I've complied with copyright rules and haven't infringed 
their rights." I hope nobody points the above page out to Funk & 
Wagnalls Corporation or Microsoft Encarta!  If they get wind of it, 
it'll be lawsuit city, I'm afraid.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 15:07:16 1997
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Subject: On my honor, I will do my best...
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> It seems like a big game of king of the hill now. I think that Mike and Alber
> both have so much to offer this group, but can't get past their pissing
> contest. 

Hope Janet comes back. For my part, I've sworn off, gotten on the 
wagon, taken the pledge, saluted the flag, etc.

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 15:29:07 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:37:38 +0000
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Hi Bunginians,
Isn't it wonderful;
you ask a question and the whole world is at your feet.
Within a matter of 2-3 days I have had about 20 replies and 
suggestions on/off Group.
Anything and everything is welcomed with opened arms.

These panels were expected by the Church by last Christmas, I made 
noises that this would be too ambitious an expectation. Easter 
possible - I sort of indicated - as vaguely as I could. In the 
meantime the "old girl", (my patron, who pays the cheque and the 
widow of the deceased Minister of almost 40 years standing at THIS 
particular Church) has had a mild stroke, panicked a bit and is 
(naturally) wondering if she is ever going to SEE these panels while 
she is still alive. Can you blame her?? I can't... She is only 82 
herself!! (Tough as old boots, but that is a different matter) Bless 
her!
1 Wood as a "frame / cabinet has already been considered and rejected. 
The carpenter / cabinet maker THEY had in mind (member of their 
congregation),  has since retired, gone half blind and doesn't feel up to the project.
 I didn't have the heart to suggest other alternatives.
I mentioned wroght iron - foolishly perhaps - as an alternative and 
this was eagerly grasped. In deed other examples of old rescued glass 
re-set in wroght iron constructions were immediately quoted for 
Churches of the Methodist denomination and I was "despatched" to 
study and view these all over South of England. What I found is 
reflected in the questions I have posted in the Group. Wrought iron 
is also less "giving" than wood, won't expand, contract, warp like 
wood.

2. The consencus seem to be that I don't need to reinforce the panels 
themselves, but that an extra sheet of "something" would help to prevent 
accident by a sleepy caretaker or maintenance workers.
Paper: No that would fade, yellow and fragment over a period of time. 
           In the process it would crumble and create a state of 
           "messyness".
Plastic:  Ditto
Perspex: Would not above apply? Would not the heat of 6-7 light tubes
             constantly for 24 hours, day in, day out, week after 
              week and so on, make it brittle, discoloured and fragile?
             Would the light tubes not burn them?
Aluminium grid: Thanks Martin, A strong contender
Glass:      Suggestions were for gluechip, sandblasted and other 
               textured/frosted glass. I will explore this one further
              Not sure if whate-painted glass would stand the test
               of time and be resistant to caretaker's insistant
              abrasive cleaning cloths.....
Carol Swann; many thanks for your positive suggestions of drilling 
air vents and other fixings.
Strongline; already installed
"dampers" on doors; Thanks Martin, perhaps some sort of rubberized 
edging pieces rather than something extra which adds more weight. 
Helpful point though.

Thank you all for all the great ideas. Will let you know what the end
result turns out to be. Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 15:29:22 1997
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Hi All,
Don't jump on me, I am the FIRST one to admit I am not a copper-foil 
expert. However, I do TEACH the basic techniques to my students and 
encourage them to explore and learn.
One of my students, who was with me for about 4 years has in the past 
done some rather ambitious tapestry work.  She decided to experiment 
with  exactly "copper foil lines in the middle of the glass" on a 
number of her projects.  (e.g. fish scales, feathers, robe lines, 
tree lines, branches, twigs, leaf stalks  and so on).
 Unperturbed that "commercial filigree-type constructions" 
were available, she bought copper-foil sheets and then sat  and drew 
out & cut out the most intricate and infuriatingly  impossible details 
which she then carefully laid on her glass, burnished down and 
soldered. . Not once did she crack a piece of glass.
It can be done.
Luckily for me, she honoured me with photographs of almost all her 
student projects with me.
....Must check out "Mr. Oddy's" site.... !
Elisabeth 'n Toby


>Well he didn't fess up to applications.
>
>But you just don't put foil in the middle of a sheet of glass and solder it.

I will, of course, happily derfer to those with more knowledge than mine,
but my teacher showed us how to make animal eyes and other details rather
like that ... maybe I've missed a step ... so I thought it could work for
longer lines.

If I'm wrong, could someone please explain why not?

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 15:29:24 1997
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PJ,
Help a "nerd" from Across the Pond...
What do you mean by "fess up"... ?? (Match up?  follow? mess up??)
Elisabeth 'n Toby  ( yet again! sigh...)

 
You wrote
>>MJ wrote, I would think he applies foil to the back of the owl
and PJ replied:
>Well he didn't fess up to applications.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 15:29:29 1997
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Hi all,
.... and whom might "SHE" be, ...???    ;-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

PJ wrote:
(BIG snip)
.... if it wasn't for pattern books!!!!!!.
Just a personal opinion. (ducking as she sends her email!!!)
my best,
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 15:29:47 1997
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Hi Mike,
A "filing system" for images is a fabulous idea. I envy you for 
having a system up and running. It's one I have been promising myself 
for YEARS, but it just hasn't come about.. It's partly due to lack of 
space. Even my drawings are just bundled together in sets of 
chronological folders, which ain't much use if you are trying to find 
that elusive lily...
Well done Mike!! I'm green with envy and must try to sort my mess  
up.
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Mike Savad wrote:
another place to find patterns is magazines. i can sketch things out,
but when it comes to animals or anything else, they don't look like what
i'm imagining. so i collect pictures from every source usally color.
catagorize them, and use them when needed. my mother first started it
for her paintings, i now have my own section of things i can use in
glass. if i need a dove, look under birds, then i'll maye a basic
tracing using a light box or an opaque projector. that's how i did all
the butterflies, fish, trees, flowers, etc.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 15:33:20 1997
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From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:44:41 -0400 (GMT)
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Double checked the web address.  It's correct and working.  Please try again.

Jennifer

At 08:21 AM 4/22/97 -0600, you wrote:
>At 09:10 AM 4/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>Fusion Stained Glass, one of Canada's best stained glass studios and
>>suppliers, is now online at http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/fusion.
>>Visit for supply information, weekly specials, online newsletter, special
>>article on reinforcing and schedule of events, workshops and classes. 
>
>
>tried to visit your web site, got a not found.  ??
>Myrddn
>
>Create a safe space, and someone will carry in a gun anyway
>
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>
================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 16:21:15 1997
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 97 16:20:43 -0700
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i just today received a book catalog from dover. it is entitled 'pictorial  
archive catalog' and contains 800+ books of illustrations and designs  
(250,000+ images) for permission-free use by artists and craftspeople.

in looking it over, it has lots of things that can be useful to glass  
people. animals, icons, woodcuts, quilting patterns, geometrics, alphabets,  
old art nouveau pictures and patters, and line drawings of all sorts of  
stuff. they've got some old rare books that they've made copies of.

they also have cdrom's of some their images.

almost everything in the catalog is under $10, with some in the $2-3 range.  
i've gotten books from them that retail in s.g. shops for $12-15 for $5.

they also have lots of other catalogs, and have a mailing list for a  
quarterly bulletin of all the books they've newly published in the last  
quarter.

you can order any amount of books from them for $4 for shipping (US only,  
outside of US is %20 of cost).

Dover Publications, Inc
31 E 2nd Street
Mineola, NY 11501-3582

they do not have an 800 number nor a website, and even state that phone  
orders are not accepted.

---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 17:50:23 1997
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X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Illustrations
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:27:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr22.142732.0>
References: <<m0wJorc-000LiCC@why.az.stratus.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Hi Charlie (and all)!

Amazing!  Just today, I also received a catalog from Dover.  This one is
entitled "Complete Crafts, Needlework and Cooking Catalog".  It
"contains 800+ books devoted to woodworking, stained glass, stencils,
quilting, crochet, knitting, cooking and a host of other crafts and
hobbies!  Most $2.95 to $6.00".

Many of the line drawings included to help describe some of the books
are inspiring.

Will be ordering the catalog you described, Charles.  Thanks!

Shirley and her new bathroom reading material
Grapeland, Tx.


Charles Spitzer wrote a bunch of stuff which included:
> 
> i just today received a book catalog from dover. it is entitled 'pictorial
> archive catalog' and contains 800+ books of illustrations and designs
> (250,000+ images) for permission-free use by artists and craftspeople.....
> 
> Dover Publications, Inc
> 31 E 2nd Street
> Mineola, NY 11501-3582
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 18:28:51 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Stepping Stones
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:22:51 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970422192251.007bb3f0@pop.bridge.net>
References: <<1997Apr22.5255.0>>
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Bonnie wrote:
>When we
>pour the cement for the patio can I then just place the already made
>stones in the wet cement for decoration.  Would they later pop out with
>our cold winters in Washington state?  Or would it even work that way
>with shrinkage, etc. of the wet cement around already hardened cement
>stones. 

Bonnie,

I've thought about this for myself and though I haven't tried it I wouldn't
take the chance of laying them in without either a grout line or a joint of
some sort to absorb movement and minimize the chance of a crack.

I plan to have my handy-dandy husband build forms slightly larger than the
stones and then pour around those forms. Later I will put the stones in
with thinset, I expect, and then grout them with sanded grout.

Just my take on it ... actually, I'm thinking of doing it more as a border
than stones ... using rectangular bricks, I guess you'd call them, setting
them a few inches in from the edge. I was also thinking of making a larger
round piece for the center. Just more thoughts ...

Cheers,

M.-J.

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 18:29:05 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Stained Glass Bloopers?????
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:55:19 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970422195519.007bc540@pop.bridge.net>
References: <<1997Apr22.51026.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Lee wrote: 
>My Blooper is putting together a 'lantern'  ...  forgot to hinge a door
into it. ...

after Dorothy wrote: 

>> >>Maybe tonight I'll finish the mirror from hell.   ...  Somehow didn't
square it...
put hanging loops on the wrong side...

This could be a great thread!

Well, I've made plenty, but one turned out well ... maybe even an improvement.
I was making panels for two old wrought iron torchieres from my
grandmother's screened porch, 12 panels in all. On the third or fourth I
realized I had switched the color sequence of the two predominant colors. I
didn't want to waste a perfectly good panel, so I made the rest so that the
panels alternate. Looks ok!

Any more lemonade?

M.-J.

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 19:02:29 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Canadian Dealer
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:01:54 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr22.18154.0>
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it could be your web browser. Not all sites can be accessed by all browsers.
I know if I have troube using AOL's, I switch to Netscape, and have no
trouble at all.     Good luck   kris
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 19:21:11 1997
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From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: pouring cement around step.stones
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:20:44 -0400
Message-ID: <199704230220.WAA25361@detroit.freenet.org>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Good question!  Have been asking around myself but not able to get anyone 
willing to admit personal experience with this.  Will be waiting for some
input from our group.



Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 20:42:52 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: PJ - Language definition , please
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:36:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr22.193654.0>
References: <<199704222228.XAA32752@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:
> 
> PJ,
> Help a "nerd" from Across the Pond...
> What do you mean by "fess up"... ?? (Match up?  follow? mess up??)
> Elisabeth 'n Toby  ( yet again! sigh...)
<snip>
It's a peculiar American collocuialism (sp)  -it's short for confess.
It's not 'proper' English, as the Brits that work for me point out, but
slang of American short hand
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 22 20:46:39 1997
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From: "bumblebee  Stained Glass" <bumblbee@frognet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Stepping Stones
Summary: Authenticated sender is <bumblbee@frognet.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:45:51 +0000
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The stone should stay put in the concrete but to be on the safe side 
you might want to drill several holes into the sides of the block,  
insert some short rods or bolts so they stick out a couple inches 
when it it poured there will be no chance of it ever escaping.
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 00:13:08 1997
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From: mdcglas@hawk.rmplc.co.uk (Phil Speedwell)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE:  PJ - Language definition , please
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:15:35 +0100
Message-ID: <v01520d00af83674bd4eb@[194.238.75.79]>
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Elizabeth you wrote
>PJ,
>Help a "nerd" from Across the Pond...
>What do you mean by "fess up"... ?? (Match up?  follow? mess up??)
>Elisabeth 'n Toby  ( yet again! sigh...)
>
>
>You wrote
>>>MJ wrote, I would think he applies foil to the back of the owl
>and PJ replied:
>>Well he didn't fess up to applications.


How about confess! :-)

Phil


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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 03:16:18 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: pouring cement around step.stones
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:15:54 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr23.21554.0>
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FROM:  Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com)

Hi Everyone!
It just occured to me that perhaps someone should be getting on the telephone
and asking a company that specializes in cement that question.  No offense to
fellow bungians, but the cement specialists seem to be the ones to ask,
unless there is someone who has had experience with pouring cement around
stepping stones more than once in a harsh climate, such as Wash. state.
Eleanor
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 05:51:22 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Staine glass a fad?
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 07:18:45 PST
Message-ID: <1997Apr23.151845.0>
References: <<970422.122008.EDT.HCLADM02@uconnvm.uconn.edu>>>
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I'd like to know where  you got the pattern for Grace's door. I've had a
request for that one too. I'd even be glad to pay you for a copy of it.
Mary
diamonds@juno.com   Thanks


On Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:31:50 -0500 Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
writes:
>> ...have you ever noticed that on TV, especially
>> sitcoms, everyone  has stained glass windows and lamps and door 
>panels?
>
>I don't watch television (except for research), but appreciate TV
>helping to popularize our medium.  Finished an order recently for a
>panel "Just like Grace's front door".  I am currently looking for the
>molds and patterns to two "TV" lamps.  I need the patterns for "Murphy
>Brown's" large floor lamp and Sipowitz's ("NYPD Blue") white table 
>lamp.
>
>Any ideas on who makes these molds and patterns?  
>
>Thanks gang!
>Shirley & a 19" TV 
>Grapeland, Tx.
>----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 05:51:34 1997
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To:           glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject:      Mirror from Hell
Date:         Wed, 23 Apr 97 08:47:19 EDT
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References: <<1997Apr22.13308.0>>
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 No, I haven't yet managed to break the mirror.  Thanks for suggesting it.
Maybe it'll break the curse.  Since starting this mirror, I've designed and
made several lovely larger mirrors, nightlights, suncatchers...etc.  I
am either going to put on workbooks and stomp all over it or finish it.
There's nothing difficult about it -- there's just the curse.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 06:32:36 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: PJ - Language definition , please
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:30:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr23.53023.0>
References: <<199704222228.XAA32752@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:
> 
> PJ,
> Help a "nerd" from Across the Pond...
> What do you mean by "fess up"... ?? (Match up?  follow? mess up??)
> Elisabeth 'n Toby  ( yet again! sigh...)
> 
> 
> You wrote
> >>MJ wrote, I would think he applies foil to the back of the owl
> and PJ replied:
> >Well he didn't fess up to applications.
> ----


it's generally slang for "Confess" i think it originated in the south on
the east coast, though i'm probably wrong.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 06:56:39 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: exploding glass
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:54:37 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr23.55437.0>
References: <<199704221807.NAA28380@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
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len alcamo wrote:
> 
> At 11:10 AM 4/22/97 -0600, Lerner, Frank M (NM75) wrote:
> >Don't feel bad.  I picked up a sheet of Yokagheny glass that I paid $75
> >for and watched it explode right before my eyes. I didn't bump it, just
> >held it wrong.
> 
> You might not have held it wrong Frank, there could have been a poorly
> annealed area causing a release of internal tension, or it might of had a
> small check in it, thats all it takes for a sheet to go bye-bye.
> 
> When I handle a large sheet for the first time I always grasp it by the top
> edge between my thumb and fingers hold it away from my body and give it a
> pretty good back and forth jiggle if it's going to go, it will usually go
> then. It doesn't make you feel any better about loosing the sheet but at
> least you avoid the dreaded guilotine effect.
> 
> Len
> 
> ----
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i have a question about that method. do you do this technique at home,
or at the store? if you do it at the store, and it does break, what do
you do then? do you put it down, look around that no-one saw or heard
that, then walk away like it did'nt happen or what? 'cuz i may try that,
i would want to be prepared.  :)

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 07:09:01 1997
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From: "Ken Lerner" <lernerk@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: pouring cement around stepping stones
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 08:55:16 CST
Message-ID: <9703238618.AA861811738@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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     Regarding pouring cement around stepping stones...
     
     If you have access to Usenet, you might try posting this question to 
     the "alt.home.repair" group.  They field a fair amount of 
     cement-related questions and with a little luck you can get some good 
     advice from people with experience in the field. 

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 07:47:54 1997
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From: Reitmann <oddjob@scc.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: pouring cement:
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:45:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr23.44558.0>
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For the dwellers in cold climates......we are currently having alot of =
cement poured due to a rennovation/addition.When the folks show up to do =
the work I will check with them as to the ? that has been asked about =
pouring around an already formed moasic block.
We live in Minneapolis, MN and this last winter fits into the catagory =
of the winter from Hell ! alot of sleet,ice,frost,and more cold and snow =
than we could almost bear.
Will report back.
Sue Reitmann
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 08:26:36 1997
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From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: exploding glass
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:18:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr23.71818.0>
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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M. Savad wrote:

> len alcamo wrote:
> >
> > When I handle a large sheet for the first time I always grasp it
> by the top
> > edge between my thumb and fingers hold it away from my body and
> give it a
> > pretty good back and forth jiggle if it's going to go, it will
> usually go
> > then.
>
> i have a question about that method. do you do this technique at
> home,
> or at the store? if you do it at the store, and it does break, what
> do
> you do then? do you put it down, look around that no-one saw or
> heard
> that, then walk away like it did'nt happen or what? 'cuz i may try
> that,
> i would want to be prepared.  :)

We check glass by holding with one hand and thumping it with the other.
This is done immediately after taking it out of the bin, if it breaks we
bought it.  In general we replace any glass that breaks prior to the
customer loading it in their car UNLESS the customer causes it to break
by some careless action like walking on it, dropping it or whatever.
It's hard to say a piece of glass doesn't have any flaws that will cause
breakage. We check each sheet of glass (quarter sheet or larger) each
time it is handled. For example it is checked when taken out of the bin
(before putting on a cart) and it is checked again before putting on a
cutting table, even though the time period might be brief between
checking it is a good habit to do.

Charles Warner
http://www.warner-criv.com

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 08:28:41 1997
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From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
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Subject: Re: exploding glass
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:34:31 -0500
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> > 
> > When I handle a large sheet for the first time I always grasp it by the
top
> > edge between my thumb and fingers hold it away from my body and give it
a
> > pretty good back and forth jiggle 
> 
> 
> i have a question about that method. do you do this technique at home,
> or at the store? 
> 

I buy most of my glass wholesale by the mixed case. I use this technique
when transfering from the case to the bins. The sheets don't come apart
very often, It's a habit I aquired when working for a large studio,  when
there was a delivery there would often be  dozens of cases containing
hundreds of  sheets  mostly antique.  

Len
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 08:36:56 1997
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From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
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Subject: Re: Stepping Stones
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:45:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr23.54539.0>
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M.-J. wrote:
> 
> Bonnie wrote:

>can I then just place the already made
> >stones in the wet cement

Bonnie,
When we recently built a house (with tile floor) there was adiscussion
about placing tile directly into the slab pouring or top placement
afterwards, both our contractor and our tile people agreed - don't place
tile into your base pour.  As it dries and contracts, it may crack;
placing the tile into a top coat or attached via tile cement will insure
a smooth surface.  for an outside patio you might want to consider the
finishing of the concrete - floated with fine/smooth on top or .... 
also how deep do you intended the pour - too deep and i'd think your
stepping stones may sink or settle unevenly.  from a
non-professional-concrete-pouring mind, my $.02 (or less, adjusted for
inflation)  L.
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 08:54:08 1997
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From: WLester380@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stepping Stones
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:53:31 -0400 (EDT)
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>From another lurker!

Bonnie -
I have poured lots of cement.  This can be done.  I suggest that you follow
the recommendation from another bunginian to drill holes in the sides of the
stones for re-bar to prevent them from rising should water seep under and
create hydraulic pressure.  

Also, I recommend that you purchase some asphalt strips, they are available
from any good home improvement store selling concrete.  These strips are
placed as a border around previously poured (or in your case placed) concrete
and act as an expansion joint or cushion between that and the newly poured
concrete.  

Finally, I suggest that you make it a point to cover the surface of the
stepping stones with the same adhesive plastic you use when constructing
them, to protect from the finishing process of the poured concrete.  Revove
the plastic BEFORE the concrete has fully dried and clean your stepping
stones in the same manner as when you made them.  

Don't forget that you will need some way to access the stones to clean them
while the concrete patio is still setting up.  A path of 2 X 6 boards placed
 on the concrete should work well, if your equilibrium is up to task.

I bet it will look great!

Bill
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 09:08:02 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
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Subject: Re: exploding glass
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:06:39 -0500 (CDT)
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A For example it is checked when taken out of the bin
>(before putting on a cart) and it is checked again before putting on a
>cutting table, even though the time period might be brief between
>checking it is a good habit to do.


Good practice Charles, I get a little lax myself during handling from bin to
table thanks for the reminder. 

Len

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 15:48:02 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:56:10 +0000
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Hi all,
Yep, have done them too.
How about this one;
once or twice I managed to turn a texture the wrong way round in an 
singular location in a panel. When a "smart Alec" asked me about it, 
my explanation was that I was merely following an old medevial 
stained glass practice of  turning one piece the wrong way round in 
order to ward off the "evil eye"....
Howzat for thinking on your feet  ?  :-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

M.J. wrote:
This could be a great thread!

Well, I've made plenty, but one turned out well ... maybe even an improvement.
Any more lemonade?

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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 15:48:02 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Hi all wonderful linguists!
Thanks for the half-dozen replies     :-))
The unanimous consensus seems to be as follows
(what it is to have friends!!)  :

How about confess! :-)

E 'n T
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 15:48:03 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: computer generated heraldry
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:56:10 +0000
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Hi JJ Kirby,
I am sorry it has taken me so long to reply to you. It's only because 
I wanted to give your question time they deserved.
I use  the various heraldic devices using glass ONLY. But wherever 
possible I simplify/ stylize some heraldic devices. Where that is not 
possible I engrave. But even engraving I try to keep to an absulute 
minimum. 
A few years ago, I got involved in reproducing the insignia of the 
"Mighty Eight" in stained glass. The occasion was the 50th 
Anniversary of their presence in Britain. The feathers in the design 
was the obvious problem area. The smallest size panel I felt was 
feasible was one that measured about 10 inches in diameter. The large 
exhibition one, measured about  30 inches in diameter. On the large 
one I could manouvre about sufficiently to  include the texture and 
lines of the feathers, on the small one, it all had to be very 
stylized. The middle sized one that I did, I was able to allow for 
"suggestions" of the feathers through engraving.
I have on a number of occasions also been asked to reproduce the 
Swedish National Coat-of Arms in stained glass. There are now 2 
versions of it, the old-fashioned "squiggly" one and the modern more 
linear and straight-lined one. My solution was a compromise between 
the two.
The secret I think, is remaining true to the spirit of the C-o-A, but 
interpret it within the limitations and strenghts of the materials 
you are using. An elephant or a lion's head would cause me no 
problems, unless you wanted to reproduce the eye-lashes of the 
elephant and the whiskers of the lion.
The task I have started recently is documenting this on my computer 
system (I have also got Glass Eye for future reference and use).. That 
is a very slow task and one I can only do when I don't have anything 
else to do, or when  I am not scratching around for commissions in 
order to pay the bills..... 
Other C-o-A I have done has been for the Cathedral city of St.Albans 
in UK, the Hungarian town which is on Web-page (and is located in the 
Hungarian Town Hall), the C-o-A for the town of Boulogne in France 
and St.George & The Dragon for a previous American Ambassador in UK, 
various English school logos and mottos and heraldic type stained 
glass..
To avoid large areas of clear/plain glass, I just change the shape of 
the panel itself. It might read better as an oval, as a circle, or 
whatever. But in my compositions, I just do not allow "dead space".

In your case, for an elephant and a lion, I would think that you 
should not consider making anything less than about 30 inches in 
diameter (or 2 ft sq.).
If you think I can help you develop this idea, please feel free to 
come back to me.
But I do have my own style and my own way of doing & interpreting 
things which may or may not suit everybody.
Kind Regards
Elisabeth 'n Toby

You wrote:
<< Its a very challenging subject, 
 especially if you deliberately chose NOT to paint and fire on glass,  >>

So many projects, so little time.

I would be interested in your techniques and strategy.

Do you implement the various heraldic devices using glass only?  
For example, we have an elephant and a lion's head on our coat of arms.
 It would seem problematical to do a small coat of arms without painting.

For a large project, how do you avoid large areas of plain glass, coupled
with smaller more intense areas containing various devices.
 
Congratulations on your awards, I'll bet your work in this area is
impressive.



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----
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 17:13:10 1997
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From: suzannne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Stained Glass Bloopers?????
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 20:14:30 -0400
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>once or twice I managed to turn a texture the wrong way round in an 
>singular location in a panel. When a "smart Alec" asked me about it, 
>my explanation was that I was merely following an old medevial 
>stained glass practice of  turning one piece the wrong way round in 
>order to ward off the "evil eye"....

>Elisabeth 'n Toby

Hi Elisabeth 'n Toby,

I love that response! and with your permission might use it sometime. I 
recently turned a bevel "inside out" on a candleholder, and it actually 
enhanced the work by playing on the mirrored bottom.

Suzanne
suzy@comcat.com






suzanne albright<suzy@comcat.com>

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 19:06:11 1997
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From: "Jackie" <jandj@tvutel.com>
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Subject: Re: pouring cement:
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:58:45 -0600
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 Yes we in the northland have had a horrific winter and spring.  I live
between Grand Forks and Fargo North Dakota on the Minnesota side 5 miles
from a town called Ada ( which was evacuated 2 weeks ago for flooding).  My
back yard was flooded and underneath all the water laid two stepping stones
that I did last summer.  I purposely left them out to see which method
would hold up.  Well today I was able to reach and pluck them out of the
soggy mess.  So far both the poured and grouted stones look and seem to be
ok.  But I think that I will know more when the hot and humid weather
comes.  My cement steps sure don't look very good though (probably from all
the salt).

Jackie

----------
> From: Reitmann <oddjob@scc.net>
> To: 'glass@bungi.com'
> Subject: pouring cement:
> Date: Wednesday, April 23, 1997 8:45 AM
> 
> For the dwellers in cold climates......we are currently having alot of =
> cement poured due to a rennovation/addition.When the folks show up to do
=
> the work I will check with them as to the ? that has been asked about =
> pouring around an already formed moasic block.
> We live in Minneapolis, MN and this last winter fits into the catagory =
> of the winter from Hell ! alot of sleet,ice,frost,and more cold and snow
=
> than we could almost bear.
> Will report back.
> Sue Reitmann
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 19:12:32 1997
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Stained Glass Bloopers?????
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:12:05 -0700
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>Hi all,
>Yep, have done them too.
>How about this one;
>once or twice I managed to turn a texture the wrong way round in an 
>singular location in a panel. When a "smart Alec" asked me about it, 
>my explanation was that I was merely following an old medevial 
>stained glass practice of  turning one piece the wrong way round in 
>order to ward off the "evil eye"....
>Howzat for thinking on your feet  ?  :-)
>Elisabeth 'n Toby

Well, I juried for an arts show once and was marked down severely because
I'd used a piece of glass backwards...this was done deliberately because of
colour and texture...makes you wonder who was jurying???  I wish I'd thought
of your explanation!!

Cheers

Carol 
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 19:35:55 1997
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Subject: Stepping Stones
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:35:43 -0700
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Please keep in mind when selecting a place to put your stepping stones
that a little rain, dew or frost can make your stepping stones
dangerously slippery. A friend of mine slipped on hers and sprained her
ankle quite badly.

Just a note of caution.

Janie
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 19:47:19 1997
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Subject: Re: Stained Glass Bloopers?????
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:47:39 +0000
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> stained glass practice of  turning one piece the wrong way round in
> order to ward off the "evil eye"....

Hi, E 'n T,

Good to have you back on-line.

In Japan, mistakes are purposely put into the art on the temples so that
the Gods will not be jealous of "perfection."

I had the priviledge of working with a Japanese Master  Of Everything
for three years. At one point, when the opera director asked why there
was wisteria hanging down one side of Butterfly's face. He replied,
"It's the detraction from her perfect beauty." I've been using that one
for 25 years now and it has yet to fail me! <g>

Take care,
Hilary
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 23 20:06:20 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Staine glass a fad?
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:06:22 +0000
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> helping to popularize our medium.  Finished an order recently for a
> panel "Just like Grace's front door".  I am currently looking for the
> molds and patterns to two "TV" lamps.  I need the patterns for "Murphy
> Brown's" large floor lamp and Sipowitz's ("NYPD Blue") white table lamp.
> 
> Any ideas on who makes these molds and patterns?

Hello, Shirley,

You can start by writing to the set designer or production designer of
the show c/o the network. It'll take longer than a day to reach them,
but the letter will arrive...and be counted by the network, BTW. Do a
lot of sucking up and the designer just might send you a photo of the
panel/lamp you are looking for and/or tell you where they were found. On
the other hand the desinger might just ask for a royalty. Depends on who
you run into, but it is worth a shot. You get a point from the designer
for just writing the letter. The networks count the letters that are
received by an individual, but don't read them. It seems that they don't
care if you are writing love or hate mail, only that you care enough to
write!

Happy hunting,
Hilary
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 02:38:26 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mirror from Hell
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:37:52 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr24.13752.0>
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Why not just step back and put it away for awhile?  Sometimes in life it's
just best to get some distance from something problematic, forget it exists
for awhile, then go back to it with a different perspective---fresh and
renewed!
Eleanor
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 03:17:20 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE:  PJ - Language definition , please
Date: 24 Apr 97 06:09:23 EDT
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Message text written by INTERNET:glass@bungi.com
>Help a "nerd" from Across the Pond...
What do you mean by "fess up"... ?? (Match up?  follow? mess up??)
Elisabeth 'n Toby  ( yet again! sigh...)
<

Elisabeth...
	"fess up" is an American slang term for "please confess".  It means to
take responsibility for what one has said or done.  But you can see the "fess"
is a shortening of the word "confess".

Also...pj friend is female.  So that's where the "she" comes from.

If you have any other questions about American slang expressions, please ask.
Always happy to explain.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 05:25:24 1997
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Subject:      Re: Stained Glass Bloopers?????
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Message-ID:   <970424.082446.EDT.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<199704232247.XAA02795@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Putting glass in wrong side up....how about this one, Elisabeth?
See how it draws the eye in and around this way.  it gives the
piece a focus and interest.

(But I do like the medival eveil eye)

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 06:58:01 1997
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From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Glass Atlas 1-13
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:57:52 -0700
Message-ID: <199704241257.FAA06854@mars.ark.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi gang.. I have a whole pile of numbers and digits that are supposed (I
assume) to be graphics of the Glass Atlas that was posted and I would really
like to view them.
..Can someone help me as to the directions on how I can convert (?) them or
view them?
..I am using Eudora mail program.

......Thanks in advance>>>>>>>Wayne 

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 07:10:12 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Stained Glass Bloopers?????
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:07:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr24.6733.0>
References: <<199704232247.XAA02795@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Yep, have done them too.
> How about this one;
> once or twice I managed to turn a texture the wrong way round in an
> singular location in a panel. When a "smart Alec" asked me about it,
> my explanation was that I was merely following an old medevial
> stained glass practice of  turning one piece the wrong way round in
> order to ward off the "evil eye"....
> Howzat for thinking on your feet  ?  :-)
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> M.J. wrote:
> This could be a great thread!
> 
> Well, I've made plenty, but one turned out well ... maybe even an improvement.
> Any more lemonade?
> 
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i heard of a simaler method, a while back i went to florida for my
cousins bat-mitzvah. anyway, i was looking at the windows there, and 2
full panels we're placed out of order. the border has a every other
piece different method, so there were two matching pieces on either side
of the panels. i asked my aunt about it, she told me it was a tribute to
his dead wife, to purposely put the panels out of order...yeah sure...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 07:22:57 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas 1-13
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 09:26:51 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr24.162651.0>
References: <<199704241257.FAA06854@mars.ark.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Wayne,

I'm sorry I can't help you with your problem, but had a question for
you.  Where did you retrieve the Glass Atlas files?  I have been 
checking on the Bungi site for them, but have not found them yet.
Am I looking for them in the wrong place?
Dawn

> graphics of the Glass Atlas that was posted and I would really
> like to view them.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 08:48:09 1997
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From: bashful <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas 1-13
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:46:24 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Apr24.44624.0>
References: <<199704241257.FAA06854@mars.ark.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Heretics United
Precedence: bulk

Wayne Munro wrote:
> 
> Hi gang.. I have a whole pile of numbers and digits that are supposed (I
> assume) to be graphics of the Glass Atlas that was posted and I would really
> like to view them.
> ..Can someone help me as to the directions on how I can convert (?) them or
> view them?
> ..I am using Eudora mail program.
> 
The number and digits are the result of your mail reader trying to
interpret binary data. Binary is the least common denominator that
computers can use to exhange data. Think of Esperanto (to those old
enough to know what that is). The original picture was broken down to
ones and zeroes so it could be transfer through the Net. when you try to
read it with a 'text' reader i.e. Eudora, etc. the reader converts it to
a text equivalant, since it can't deal with graphics. If you are not
technically adept, and do not have the decoder software, you will not be
able to view the graphic. The easy way to decode this is to get a free
copy of AOL or MicroSoft Internet Explorer, or get a copy of Netscape.
You do not need to access the Net. If you have an email account only,
save the email attachment to a file (this is important, 'cuz some mail
readers can't/don't keep the attachment separate, but imbed it as part
of the message. if this is the case, you would have to edit the file to
remove the 'text' portion.) when you have the Internet software
installed (AOL, MSIE, Netscape), go to the FILE area on the tool bar or
command line, click 'open' or 'open local file', and give the name of
the attachment you saved. The web browser should launch, and display the
decoded graphic. The web browsers have decoders built in, as that's how
web page graphics are converted and viewed when you are surfing the
net.       

If you have friends who can get you software, or have access to the Net,
and can down load or FTP, you can try to find an application called
'WINZIP95.exe'. Yes for Windows95. Yes, it does more than uncompress zip
files. When you install it, you can launch it and point to the files you
received as attachments, and it wall decode it. It recognizes base64
MIME UUE etc. It doesn't work on everything, especially if you don't
have the software that it was formatted with, such as a Lotus Notes
document sent to you, and you don't have Notes on your PC. Straight
graphics is ok, it's just a problem when the documents have been
formatted with special control characters.

Sorry to have been so verbose, but it would take hours to explain how to
do this manually with the standalone decoding software.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 09:01:17 1997
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From: Vafi5@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:00:23 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr24.8023.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I really would like to know where the Wissmach factory is. Could you give me
the exact address.Thanks in advance.Vafi5@AOL.COM.
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 12:55:37 1997
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From: "Ken Lerner" <lernerk@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re[2]: Stained Glass Bloopers?????
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 14:16:39 CST
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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You sometimes see the same sort of thing in antique quilts, where one block will
be backwards or a different color -- obviously a deliberate deviation, because 
"only God can make something perfect."



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________


When a "smart Alec" asked me about it, 
my explanation was that I was merely following an old medevial 
stained glass practice of  turning one piece the wrong way round in 
order to ward off the "evil eye"....


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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 14:17:58 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:24:05 +0000
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> I really would like to know where the Wissmach factory is. Could you give me
> the exact address.Thanks in advance.

The Paul Wissmach Glass Co., Inc., 420 Stephens Street / PO Box 228,
Paden City WV 26159. Phone: (304) 337-2253. Fax: (304) 337-8800. 

>From the Sources Guide ... address below. They're under "P" (for 
Paul).

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 14:20:08 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:17:55 -0400
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Vafi5@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I really would like to know where the Wissmach factory is. Could you give me
> the exact address.Thanks in advance.Vafi5@AOL.COM.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


this is the homepage
http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/wissmach/home.html you can try
asking them directly, i only saw there P.O. Box though.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 15:26:59 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Stained Glass Bloopers?????
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:35:08 +0000
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Hi Suzanne,
Sure you can use my quote!! Ain't got copyright on them , yet ;-)
Thank you also for you earlier kind comment about patience...
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Suzanne wrote:

I love that response! and with your permission might use it sometime.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 15:33:51 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE:  PJ - Language definition , please
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
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Elisabeth,

I apologize for not responding sooner to your query, we are in the midst of
opening a new studio and I have been covered with paint for the last week
and not really checking on my email.

The consensus that "fess" is from the word confess was correct.  Where the
heck it came from is not something I would know.  I have a hard enough time
just keeping words where they belong in a sentence yet what their origin is.
<BS>
Still Mr. Oddy never said what it is he applied anywhere.  Or what glass he
used. Major manufacturers is a bit to vague for me.  I still gotta see these
in person. Photoshop is known to do some wonderful things.  Maybe his work
is one of them.
Maybe I need to ask some more questions?

How did things go with your blacksmith??  And what type of structure did you
end up with?
Lexon is a type of plexi.  Seems to be more stable than regular pelix. to
ultraviolet light.  Doesn't turn yellow quite as fast.  But what type of
bulbs are you using in your
structure?. Six inches is quite a distance.  And if the piece if
ventilated......there should be no problem.

I probably won't check them mail again till Sunday.  If I can help in anyway
just let me know.

my best,
pj

I will try to keep my slang under control....I forgot we are multi-cultural!!!!!

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 15:47:30 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: IGGA site expands
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:53:54 +0000
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Folks,

We added a whole year's worth of issues of Common Ground to our web
site today, including 174 great photos of work.  There are also some
terrific technical articles, safety information, a presentation on
copyright, etc., etc. ... and 174 great photos of work. <s>

Just go to the home page (address below) and click on the Common
Ground: Glass logo. It's right near the top of the page.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 17:16:10 1997
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From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:15:01 -0400
Message-ID: <199704250015.UAA25429@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Wissmach Glass is very easy to find.  State Route 2 (south I believe) when
you enter New Martinsville, go to second light, past school and turn
right.  Go back about three blocks and you will run into it!  Very Nice
people and if you hit it at the right time, you will get a tour!

Mary Ann

----------
> From: M. Savad <morn@nac.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Your "perfect" s/g store
> Date: Thursday, April 24, 1997 5:17 PM
> 
> Vafi5@aol.com wrote:
> > 
> > I really would like to know where the Wissmach factory is. Could you
give me
> > the exact address.Thanks in advance.Vafi5@AOL.COM.
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
> this is the homepage
> http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/wissmach/home.html you can try
> asking them directly, i only saw there P.O. Box though.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> -- 
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
>  - The Creative Process
>  - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
>  - Picking Out Glass in the Store
> 
>  - Plus New Photos
>  - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
>  - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
>  - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden
> 
>  - But That's Not All!!!
>  - My Links Page is UP!
>  - And Awards Page Too
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 18:23:22 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: a site
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:21:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr24.17214.0>
References: <<199704242226.XAA25245@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

this is a small site, but the house is adorable.
http://www.billjob.com:80/brookvie.htm it does'nt seem to have the
dimensions i don't think.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Thu Apr 24 19:54:15 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: a site
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:49:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr24.184954.0>
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
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What beautiful little SG houses, lighted inside, and beautifully
photographed.  Nicely done site too.  

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> this is a small site, but the house is adorable.
> http://www.billjob.com:80/brookvie.htm it does'nt seem to have the
> dimensions i don't think.
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 00:40:30 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass Bloopers?????
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:38:28 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr24.233828.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


<< Any more lemonade? >>
 
I'm collecting fused glass with blowups (uprisings due to overheating).
 Thankfully, I have a ringsaw and I can cut them up and reuse most of the
glass.  Barbara

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 00:46:56 1997
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From: Jim Campbell <knowitall@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: [Fwd: Re: moon]
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:28:38 -0400
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From: "Robert N. Oddy" <rnoddy@servtech.com>
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To: Jim Campbell <knowitall@worldnet.att.net>
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Subject: Re: moon
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Jim Campbell wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I visited you web site and was really impressed with your work.  How did
> you make the moon in the bamboo window?  The glass group I belong to is
> very curious about your methods and awestruck at your talent.  Thanks
> for any secrets you're willing to share.
> 
> Roseanne

Roseanne:  Thanks for your note, and kind remarks.  The moon is actually
an absence of glass!   The rest of the window is at least two layers of
glass - a colorless seedy glass in front of a pale grey clear glass.
The grey glass is missing where the moon is, and the edges of the grey
glass are ground to remove reflections, but not foiled.

Bob
-- 
Robert N. Oddy              Tel: (315) 446-0279
Stained Glass Artist        email: rnoddy@servtech.com
223 Scottholm Terrace       www: 
Syracuse NY 13224

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 06:40:28 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Trade Show in June
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:39:36 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.53936.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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From:  Eleanor (yegnim@aol.com)

Hi Everyone!
I just signed up for classes at the Assoc. of Stained Glass Suppliers Trade
show held in Baltimore, Maryland, at the end of June.  Anyone else going?  If
so, I would love to meet a friendly, Bungi face at one point.  Let me know!
Eleanor
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 06:43:41 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: a site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:40:50 -0400
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leestat7 wrote:
> 
> What beautiful little SG houses, lighted inside, and beautifully
> photographed.  Nicely done site too.
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> 
> M. Savad wrote:
> >
> > this is a small site, but the house is adorable.
> > http://www.billjob.com:80/brookvie.htm it does'nt seem to have the
> > dimensions i don't think.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

yeah apparently they have quite a few shots of they're stuff. i just
stuck it in before examining the site in any detail. i've seen they're
light housesbefore, but these bed and breakfast houses are new. they
mentioned on one of the pages, that (i think the house i linked too),
has around 1100 pieces in it, which is pretty wild when you think about
how many of those houses are in the series.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 06:46:26 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: moon]
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:43:39 -0400
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Jim Campbell wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: moon
> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 21:03:43 +0000
> From: "Robert N. Oddy" <rnoddy@servtech.com>
> To: Jim Campbell <knowitall@worldnet.att.net>
> References: <335E04DD.5744@worldnet.att.net>
> 
> Jim Campbell wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I visited you web site and was really impressed with your work.  How did
> > you make the moon in the bamboo window?  The glass group I belong to is
> > very curious about your methods and awestruck at your talent.  Thanks
> > for any secrets you're willing to share.
> >
> > Roseanne
> 
> Roseanne:  Thanks for your note, and kind remarks.  The moon is actually
> an absence of glass!   The rest of the window is at least two layers of
> glass - a colorless seedy glass in front of a pale grey clear glass.
> The grey glass is missing where the moon is, and the edges of the grey
> glass are ground to remove reflections, but not foiled.
> 
> Bob
> --
> Robert N. Oddy              Tel: (315) 446-0279
> Stained Glass Artist        email: rnoddy@servtech.com
> 223 Scottholm Terrace       www:
> Syracuse NY 13224
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


cool so one of the theories were right... the only probalem i saw in
that method, is trying to get all the water out of the 2 layers.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 07:16:22 1997
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From: StndGlass1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:15:25 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.61525.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I'll be there!  I'm actually teaching one of the classes.  Our company will
also be exhibiting and since the show is in our backyard, we are host studio
as well!

Last year, in Nashville, we arranged a meeting of an AOL glass group at the
show.  Would anyone be interested in doing that for the bungians?  I'd love
to meet everyone that's coming!

Jenna Meredith
Meredith Stained Glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 07:22:57 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: a site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:26:52 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970425092652.006968a0@busprod.com>
References: <<199704242226.XAA25245@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>this is a small site, but the house is adorable.
>http://www.billjob.com:80/brookvie.htm it does'nt seem to have the
>dimensions i don't think.

While I think these pieces are astounding because they appear to be quite
time consuming, I can't help wondering how much all the craftspeople in his
studio get paid for this. It's probably rather crummy of me, but I thought
of a research paper I did about 6 years ago re: the arts in China. It was
learned that most artisans, on the average, earn about the equivalent of
$1.25/ day. All I could think of as I viewed these beautiful pieces was the
idea that someone spends $3,000 on one of Mr. Job's lighthouses, and half a
dozen workers spend a week to fashion it at a total cost of about fifty
bucks for all of them!

Ok, sorry about the soapbox, but it was something I thought about. Of
course, I don't think it detracts from the beauty of his pieces...
Just my thoughts, LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 10:30:34 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:27:40 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970425132740.007ba4d0@pop.bridge.net>
References: <<1997Apr25.53936.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

Eleanor,

I have a couple of questions. Perhaps you can point me in the right
direction for more information.

Is the show for the trade only, or can hobbyists attend? And how do I find
out about what classes are available?

Thanks.

M.-J.

Eleanor wrote:

>I just signed up for classes at the Assoc. of Stained Glass Suppliers Trade
>show held in Baltimore, Maryland, at the end of June.  Anyone else going?  If
>so, I would love to meet a friendly, Bungi face at one point.  Let me know!
>

----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 11:03:43 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: a site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:59:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.95912.0>
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi LJ,

I thought of the same thing, which is why I did not comment further. 
One additional thought though, if average labor in that village is : for
example: .35 cents a day, and this craftsman is being paid (your
example-$1.25 ) Are they still not better off that the others there??? 
Yes, there is a tremendous disparity in wages, living conditions, etc. ,
between many countys.  On the worst way of looking at this there are a
bunch of very meticulas craftsmen producing some beautiful pieces for a
company that remarkets her in the US at prices no craftsman here could
meet. (1100 pieces in one of these???).  Or the best way, is a company
that has a market here, is raising a small (I don't know, or have any
idea where in China this is) Village standard of living and giving jobs
to some talented people.  So from the worst to the best.  I won't even
go into, or think about, the sweatshop conditions in Thailand,
Indonesia, and many other large city, nation, low wage, cheap export
places.  


Just some of my 2 cents in thinking about this. ( I always think a glass
is 1/2 full ;-) )



Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
I am quoting the whole of your message below, so as to not take anything
out of context. And after that the introduction from the "Front Page" of
this site, To give the feeling of what this company says it is.


LJ Maas wrote:
> 
> >this is a small site, but the house is adorable.
> >http://www.billjob.com:80/brookvie.htm it does'nt seem to have the
> >dimensions i don't think.
> 
> While I think these pieces are astounding because they appear to be quite
> time consuming, I can't help wondering how much all the craftspeople in his
> studio get paid for this. It's probably rather crummy of me, but I thought
> of a research paper I did about 6 years ago re: the arts in China. It was
> learned that most artisans, on the average, earn about the equivalent of
> $1.25/ day. All I could think of as I viewed these beautiful pieces was the
> idea that someone spends $3,000 on one of Mr. Job's lighthouses, and half a
> dozen workers spend a week to fashion it at a total cost of about fifty
> bucks for all of them!
> 
> Ok, sorry about the soapbox, but it was something I thought about. Of
> course, I don't think it detracts from the beauty of his pieces...
> Just my thoughts, LJ

=================Collectable Workshop-HOME FRONT PAGE=Copied
quote===============

Every workday, I take the ferry from a small Chinese island where there
are no cars or even
bikes, to work with a few hundred craftspeople, trained by us, where
together we design and
make various stained glass products. We cut, solder, bevel, drill, fuse,
slump, pull and twist
stained glass all day long. It is not unlike going to Santa's workshop! 

Our original product line is known as Vitreville&trade;, intricate
little stained glass houses and
buildings marketed and distributed in the U.S. by our friends and
partners at Forma Vitrum. In
addition to the miniature houses are Coastal Heritage Lighthouses, our
stained glass replica
lighthouse series. We also have a series of Bed and Breakfasts, and once
a year we do a
special piece for Christmas. We invite you to take a look at each of
these at our Products and
Services page. If you know the name of a piece and would like to go
there immediately, try our
search page. 

The wonderful opportunity we are enjoying in China is by no means
limited to the products you
see here. Check out our What's New page to see what we're up to lately.
We hope some of
you will think of creative ways in which we can do things together,
everything from designing or
improving our hand-crafted pieces to even visiting us here in China on
our little island. Y'all
come on down!
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 11:11:42 1997
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From: Lynice Spangler <lynice@mailbox.jf.intel.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC5169.44541BB0"
Subject: RE: a site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:10:20 +0100
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5169.44541BB0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Regarding http://www.billjob.com/roofers.htm are those trees soldered?
I wonder how they did that.  It's an awesome effect.  Can you imagine what
you could do with some differenct colored patinas on that?

L.


-----Original Message-----
From:	LJ Maas [SMTP:artist@busprod.com]
Sent:	Friday, April 25, 1997 3:27 PM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Re: a site

>this is a small site, but the house is adorable.
>http://www.billjob.com:80/brookvie.htm it does'nt seem to have the
>dimensions i don't think.

While I think these pieces are astounding because they appear to be quite
time consuming, I can't help wondering how much all the craftspeople in his
studio get paid for this. It's probably rather crummy of me, but I thought
of a research paper I did about 6 years ago re: the arts in China. It was
learned that most artisans, on the average, earn about the equivalent of
$1.25/ day. All I could think of as I viewed these beautiful pieces was the
idea that someone spends $3,000 on one of Mr. Job's lighthouses, and half a
dozen workers spend a week to fashion it at a total cost of about fifty
bucks for all of them!

Ok, sorry about the soapbox, but it was something I thought about. Of
course, I don't think it detracts from the beauty of his pieces...
Just my thoughts, LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
----
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AAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAOVt

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 12:09:47 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wKqN5-0000zua; Fri, 25 Apr 97 12:09 PDT
X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass
From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: a site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:09:23 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704251909.PAA27078@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

LJ wrote,
]
>
>>this is a small site, but the house is adorable.
>>http://www.billjob.com:80/brookvie.htm it does'nt seem to have the
>>dimensions i don't think.
>
>While I think these pieces are astounding because they appear to be quite
>time consuming, I can't help wondering how much all the craftspeople in his
>studio get paid for this. It's probably rather crummy of me, but I thought
>of a research paper I did about 6 years ago re: the arts in China. It was
>learned that most artisans, on the average, earn about the equivalent of
>$1.25/ day. All I could think of as I viewed these beautiful pieces was the
>idea that someone spends $3,000 on one of Mr. Job's lighthouses, and half a
>dozen workers spend a week to fashion it at a total cost of about fifty
>bucks for all of them!>>

MJ,
did anyone get prices on these pieces???
Mr. Job says his Christmas piece is a limited edition.....of.......2,500.
Hmmmm...I don't look at 2500 pieces of anything as a limited edition.  In
fact its called Mass Production.
I bet he never tells hows much he pays his workers.  This type of work
artists in the United States cannot compete with.  Mass produced for near to
nothing....total profit.
One of the reasons our studio does not make lamps.  

my best,
pj
>

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 12:24:39 1997
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	id m0wKqbU-0000xma; Fri, 25 Apr 97 12:24 PDT
X-Path: nwi.net!dloda
From: "Dave & Lynn Loda" <dloda@nwi.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Stepping Stones
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:26:16 -0700
Message-ID: <199704251929.MAA15060@nwinternet.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Tried to send you and E-mail at fishbait@telvar.com and got a message "
unknown server".  Do I have your address right.  Which method of laying
your stones have you decided on?  It was nice to put a face with a name. 
Also thanks for the mention.  I'll get back to you when I get your L-Square
in. Getting ready for Apple Blossom Fest next weekend.

Dave & Lynn Loda
Art Glass of Wenatchee

----------
> From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Stepping Stones
> Date: Tuesday, April 22, 1997 12:02 PM
> 
> We are considering adding a cement patio onto the end of our house
> this summer.  If I make stepping stones and let them set up.  When we
> pour the cement for the patio can I then just place the already made
> stones in the wet cement for decoration.  Would they later pop out with
> our cold winters in Washington state?  Or would it even work that way
> with shrinkage, etc. of the wet cement around already hardened cement
> stones.  I have never made a stepping stone before and this would be one
> way I could put them to use if it will work.  
>      I was in Wenatchee, Washington yesterday and stopped at a new
> stained glass store that a friend told me about.  Hadn't been in there
> long and the owners and I struck up a conversation which led to "Are you
> on the Bungi site?"  He was awestuck, as was I when we both discovered
> we were meeting a real live Bungian.  It was Dave and Lynn Loda who had
> moved there from Newport, Oregon and were setting up this shop?  Had a
> real nice visit and even bought some glass and a gizmo.  Their business
> is Art Glass of Wenatchee and they were very accomodating even though
> all of thier shipments weren't in yet.  They even placed a special order
> for me.  Are there any more Bungians in Washington state?  Good luck in
> your new business Dave and Lynn Loda and I'll be back.
>                       Bonnie Clark
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 12:28:29 1997
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X-Path: fast.net!warnerc
From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Your "perfect" web site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:22:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.112252.0>
References: <<199704250015.UAA25429@gate.usaor.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello fellow Bungians!
Well, we've talked about your "perfect" stained glass store. How about
your "perfect" web site? We are going to make improvements to our site
and we would like to know what new things you would like to see.
Interested in your input! 
Elenie
Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass 
http://www.warner-criv.com
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 13:31:46 1997
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From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Butterfly forms
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:31:15 -0400 (GMT)
Message-ID: <199704252031.QAA01619@digital.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You've heard about the new mosaic butterfly forms and patterns. Now see
them for yourself. Molds come in two sizes with several different pattern
designs available. Each mold come with a FREE full sized pattern, color
picture and instructions. Retail and wholesale information available. Visit
http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/llartco.

Jennifer
================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 14:26:07 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: a site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:23:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.132333.0>
References: <<1997Apr25.121020.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Lynice Spangler wrote:
> 
> Regarding http://www.billjob.com/roofers.htm are those trees soldered?
> I wonder how they did that.  It's an awesome effect.  Can you imagine what
> you could do with some differenct colored patinas on that?
> 
> L.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   LJ Maas [SMTP:artist@busprod.com]
> Sent:   Friday, April 25, 1997 3:27 PM
> To:     glass@bungi.com
> Subject:        Re: a site
> 
> >this is a small site, but the house is adorable.
> >http://www.billjob.com:80/brookvie.htm it does'nt seem to have the
> >dimensions i don't think.
> 
> While I think these pieces are astounding because they appear to be quite
> time consuming, I can't help wondering how much all the craftspeople in his
> studio get paid for this. It's probably rather crummy of me, but I thought
> of a research paper I did about 6 years ago re: the arts in China. It was
> learned that most artisans, on the average, earn about the equivalent of
> $1.25/ day. All I could think of as I viewed these beautiful pieces was the
> idea that someone spends $3,000 on one of Mr. Job's lighthouses, and half a
> dozen workers spend a week to fashion it at a total cost of about fifty
> bucks for all of them!
> 
> Ok, sorry about the soapbox, but it was something I thought about. Of
> course, I don't think it detracts from the beauty of his pieces...
> Just my thoughts, LJ
>   ****************************************************************


if i remember right, they sell accesories for the houses. tree's of
various colors, fences, people, benches, etc. so chances are they're
probably plastic, like a big model train type tree.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 14:28:55 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: a site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:26:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.132632.0>
References: <<199704251909.PAA27078@water.waterw.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

pj friend wrote:
> 
> LJ wrote,
> ]
> >
> >>this is a small site, but the house is adorable.
> >>http://www.billjob.com:80/brookvie.htm it does'nt seem to have the
> >>dimensions i don't think.
> >
> >While I think these pieces are astounding because they appear to be quite
> >time consuming, I can't help wondering how much all the craftspeople in his
> >studio get paid for this. It's probably rather crummy of me, but I thought
> >of a research paper I did about 6 years ago re: the arts in China. It was
> >learned that most artisans, on the average, earn about the equivalent of
> >$1.25/ day. All I could think of as I viewed these beautiful pieces was the
> >idea that someone spends $3,000 on one of Mr. Job's lighthouses, and half a
> >dozen workers spend a week to fashion it at a total cost of about fifty
> >bucks for all of them!>>
> 
> MJ,
> did anyone get prices on these pieces???
> Mr. Job says his Christmas piece is a limited edition.....of.......2,500.
> Hmmmm...I don't look at 2500 pieces of anything as a limited edition.  In
> fact its called Mass Production.
> I bet he never tells hows much he pays his workers.  This type of work
> artists in the United States cannot compete with.  Mass produced for near to
> nothing....total profit.
> One of the reasons our studio does not make lamps.
> 
> my best,
> pj
> >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i guess in "limited" they mean never again, and that supply has to go to
thousands of stores, (at least around the country). i wonder how long it
takes to make a series? though for a series, it's really well done, i've
seen those mass produced lamps on the shopping network, and they don't
look very healthy.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 14:39:58 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Your "perfect" web site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:37:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.133735.0>
References: <<1997Apr25.112252.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Warner-Crivellaro wrote:
> 
> Hello fellow Bungians!
> Well, we've talked about your "perfect" stained glass store. How about
> your "perfect" web site? We are going to make improvements to our site
> and we would like to know what new things you would like to see.
> Interested in your input!
> Elenie
> Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass
> http://www.warner-criv.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well first for the dont's:

1. no animated graphics, java, shockawave, etc.
2. no background sounds, it slows my computer down, and it's even worse
when they don't put a stop button in.
3. no un-stoppable scrolling text at the bottom of the screen. it slows
everything down, i can't see what what link is loading, if any, and it's
just plain distracting.
4. i never like frames much, alot of people stick it in there because
they think that's the new high tech thing to do. i've only seen it used
well on a few pages. like they would make there menues into a hierechy
(sp?) and it's just easy clicking.

the do's:

1. i like collecting peoples work 3-d, 2-d, etc. having shots of other's
work would be cool. 
2. a tips section is always cool.
3. i like spectrums site because you can see alot of their glass. if
something simaler could be done with other colors, alot of work , but i
think worth it.
4. pictures and prices of everything sold, everything down to filligree
and hinges. 
5. a MSDS (i think), all the saftey instructions and what to do if a
product lands on you. so i don't have to log on to someone elses, or the
companies.

i'm sure i'll think of other's...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 15:04:03 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wKt5i-0000xra; Fri, 25 Apr 97 15:03 PDT
X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: New Kid on the Block
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:02:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.14236.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I tried to send this earlier in the week, but I guess it ended up in the
ozone - stunned by technology once again!  I'm Dani Greer, who, with my
husband, Michael own Greer Gallery & Studios in Colorado.  We're a custom
shop and specialize in kiln-fired glass painting.  I found out about the
group through pj Friend, who saw our website and sent some nice comments. 
We're located at http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/  -- it's being updated as
I write so any constructive comments are welcome.

Having only been on board for a week and new to this game, forgive me if I
make any blunders - I would certainly hate to be lurking or flaming without
being conscious of it!  I've enjoyed a number of the discussions and would
like to comment on some of them -

The Tiffany series because I am teaching a foil class at a local community
college this summer - they have a neat, new artisans program in which they
teach fine crafts including stained glass.  You've supplied some great
fodder for an interesting lecture!  One a side note, the class will also
cover design and pattern-making.  I have nothing against pattern books;
some of them are good.  But, if you want to compete for the big jobs and
use the word "custom" on your shingle, you must be able to do original
designs and full-size patterns to specifications.

Regarding Marilyn's question about alternatives to kiln-fired glass
painting - I suppose it depends on how "important" the piece is.  Is it a
church commission or a suncatcher?  How much is the customer willing to
pay?  Does he want it to last ten generations or ten years?  Michael says
he's had good luck with black Sign Painters One Shot - it can be hard to
find, but usually the better art supply stores carry it.  He uses it
reluctantly, though, and doesn't represent it as permanent.

As far as good visual reference materials - we have a pretty good "morgue",
but nothing beats my old set of Compton's encyclopedias from childhood! 
Look for them at any used book store - the older, the better!

Enough for now.  I'll close by mentioning that I graduated from high school
in Augsburg, Germany and didn't see the cathedral - ouch!  Glad to be part
of the group.

Best regards,

Dani ( and Michael) Greer 
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 15:24:01 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0wKtP6-0001AEa; Fri, 25 Apr 97 15:23 PDT
X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: suzannne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <glass@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: New Kid on the Block
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 97 18:25:30 -0400
Message-ID: <199704252223.SAA10956@uz.comcat.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>I'm Dani Greer, who, with my
>husband, Michael own Greer Gallery & Studios in Colorado.  We're a custom
>shop and specialize in kiln-fired glass painting.  I found out about the
>group through pj Friend, who saw our website and sent some nice comments. 
>We're located at http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/

To Michael & Dani Greer,

Welcome to the group. I'm new too; I don't think you can make any 
mistakes lurking; if I understand it right, it's just reading what you 
get without responding. Lovely word, huh?

I'm not sure what flaming is myself. Maybe someone will fill me in. 
Possibly it's getting upset at what someone says?





suzanne albright<suzy@comcat.com>

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 16:11:20 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: another site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:09:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.1590.0>
References: <<199704252223.SAA10956@uz.comcat.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

this site has some pretty neat work, i'm bringing you directly to on eof
their lamps, i think it's pretty neat looking...
http://www.freeway.net/shadetree/original/lamps/

BTW i found it by doing a keyword search for "stained glass studio"

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 16:43:48 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: another site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:41:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.154128.0>
References: <<9703238618.AA861811738@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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found another site, the egyption panel is pretty cool...
http://netproviders.com/gilbertsons/index.html

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 16:45:28 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: repeat messages
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:40:11 -0600 (CST)
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Hi;
        Does someone know why I sometimes get duplicates of the same
message, some times quoted, but no new message, sometimes not, just
identical messages... I usually just junk one, but am curios to know if
someone can explain it.  Meg
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 16:45:29 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: painting without firing
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:40:08 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970425222249.1ad73c9a@sol.racsa.co.cr>
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 "Glass Magic" which look like fingernail polish bottles, by
>> Eastman Corp., work well but have not tried them. 
>>


I have tried them and I hate them!!! I used the Deka paint and it is okay,
although I find the colors over bright and a bit artificial.  Others that I
have used and like are the glass paints by Talens, some by LeFranc and
Bourgeous Sp???  I don't have a bottle at hand....  But they both tend to
fade after several years...  There are some new paints advertised for firing
in the new Delphi catalog which are intrigueing  Meg

Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 17:33:35 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
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Subject: Glass on Glass
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:30:57 -0400
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I saw a beautiful stained glass mural in a chapel today.

Clear colored glass had been cut in to 2" squares and applied to the
surface of blocks in a glass block wall. None of the grout lines were covered.

There was no foiling or grouting.

Any idea what adhesive must have been used to apply them?

M.-J.

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 17:47:18 1997
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From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: House Site Accesories
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:42:58 -0400
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M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Lynice Spangler wrote:
> >
> > Regarding http://www.billjob.com/roofers.htm are those trees soldered?
> > I wonder how they did that.  It's an awesome effect.  Can you imagine what
> > you could do with some differenct colored patinas on that?
> >
Many times we considered making accesories for houses, filigree, wood,
lead castings, brass stampings, or good directions on how to make
them....  
Recently Monster Metals introduced a 3-d tree which is much more
elaborate 
than what we were going to do.  We were hoping to find out if anyone was 
interested in a better tree or other accesories.  ANYONE ?  ANY INTEREST
?

****************
> >
> > While I think these pieces are astounding because they appear to be quite
> > time consuming. <snip>       rather crummy of me, but I thought
> > of a research paper I did about 6 years ago re: the arts in China. It was
> > learned that most artisans, on the average, earn about the equivalent of
> > $1.25/ day. All I could think of as I viewed these beautiful pieces was the
> > idea that someone spends $3,000 on one of Mr. Job's lighthouses, <snip>

Bill Jobs pieces are very inexpensive.  

Years ago I had a studio in southern California.  At that time and maybe
still 
a good size lamp could be purchased for $25.  One guess who didn't make
lamps!
Their low prices were not all bad because it helped to make stained
glass
more popular.  Most of us can afford to spend $25 for any lamp, most of
us
can not spend $300+ for a lamp unless it is a major focal point.  What
grips
me about imported Mexican lamps is when they are mis-represented by a
merchant "hand made in my basement..." and compete with non-mass
produced lamps.  Any
Bungians in CA?  How does their glass affect you now?  Seems to me most
lamps
from Asia have large markups so they are priced more in line with low
grade
domestic lamps (no bigot here).

> >   ****************************************************************
> 
> if i remember right, they sell accesories for the houses. tree's of
> various colors, fences, people, benches, etc. so chances are they're
> probably plastic, like a big model train type tree.

Charles Warner
http://www.warner-criv.com
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 17:55:29 1997
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From: KathiF878@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:54:01 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.16541.0>
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Please remove me from your list. There are too many e-mails for me.

                                 KathiF878@aol.com
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 18:15:43 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Glass Atlas 1-13
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:15:13 +0000
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I have totally missed any notice of where to find the Glass Atlas. Can
the information please be re-posted?

Thanks,
Hilary
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 18:16:28 1997
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From: "NC Scouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: a site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:12:59
Message-ID: <1997Apr26.41259.0>
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---<<Snipity-snip>>---

>if i remember right, they sell accesories for the houses. tree's of
>various colors, fences, people, benches, etc. so chances are they're
>probably plastic, like a big model train type tree.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
<<Snip-snip>>

  I too have also visited this site, and if I recollect rightly--this
fellow stated someplace in those pages that the fences and people were
of "hand-cast pewter" and were also purchasable.
  (My understanding of 'pewter' is that it's an alloy of mostly lead... 
If this is correct, then isn't he just melting down his little extra
bits solder to make -more- $$$?? A form of recycling, so to speak?)
   Politically, I happen to HEARTILY agree with a few of the others
about low-wage imports vs. high-standard American handcrafts.  (Just my
10 worth... ;-D  )

V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.



 * JDS Mail & News

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 19:24:58 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
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Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:24:46 -0400
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 Anyone else going?  If
>so, I would love to meet a friendly, Bungi face at one point.  

I will definitely be there!   My sister lives around that area, so this is
one I won't miss!

Joyce
Garden of Glass


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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 19:36:42 1997
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From: LByrne21@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:35:17 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.183517.0>
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Dawn:

May I, too, please have a copy of your much belabored efforts on Stepping
Stones and Mosaics?

                                                 Thank you

                                                 Lavergne    LByrne@aol.com
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 19:44:08 1997
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From: TSEMTE96@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: question
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:43:31 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.184331.0>
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Hello all, I have enjoyed your comments and info so much.I am mearly a
hobbyist and have learned much from you these past months.I have a
question.I'm making a terrarium from the "Elegant Lamps 2".Directions say
after putting together the top and bottom insert bevels.Are there any tips on
this?The bevels are alternated with free space.2  2X4 bevels then 4X4 gap.
Will soldering the outside of the bevels be enough support since the inside
of everything else is? Hope I explained it right. Thanks TSE
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 20:22:54 1997
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From: Bubstah@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:22:21 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.192221.0>
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Just read your e-mail.  Very interested in more information about the s.g.
trade show in June.  I would love to go if the dates fit in.  Thanx for any
info you may have.

Bubstah
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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 20:28:18 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:04:33 +0000
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> Is the show for the trade only, or can hobbyists attend? And how do I find
> out about what classes are available?

Hobbyists can't attend, so one should never describe oneself as a 
hobbyist. They require certain proofs of "professional" status, one 
or another combination of which is pretty simple to put together. 
Frankly, you have always struck me as very professional ... so there 
you go.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 21:40:39 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:47:17 -0600
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LByrne21@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Dawn:
> 
> May I, too, please have a copy of your much belabored efforts on Stepping
> Stones and Mosaics?

Me too!  Me too?   T. in Montana

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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 21:40:41 1997
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Glass Atlas 1-13
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:45:41 -0600
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Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> 
> I have totally missed any notice of where to find the Glass Atlas. Can
> the information please be re-posted?Me too.  We were in the midst of our busiest season (taxes and calving) 
and I wasn't able to get any email for over a month.  I too must have 
missed it.  Where's Joyce?  What is the status of the Glass Atlas?  I'm 
dying to know (figuratively)  T. in Montana


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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 21:40:43 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: another site
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:38:04 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Apr25.15384.0>
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M. Savad wrote:
> 
> this site has some pretty neat work, i'm bringing you directly to on eof
> their lamps, i think it's pretty neat looking...
> http://www.freeway.net/shadetree/original/lamps/
> 
> BTW i found it by doing a keyword search for "stained glass studio"Hi Mike,
	Our tax season is over and now it's back to the best part of 
using our computers, getting back in touch.
	Thanks from bringing this site to my attention.  The lamp is 
absolutely breathtaking, gorgeous.  Stay cool -- T. in Montana


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From owner-glass Fri Apr 25 23:14:02 1997
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From: "NC Scouter" <ncscoutr@beachaccess.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 02:11:40
Message-ID: <1997Apr26.91140.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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>LByrne21@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> Dawn:
>> 
>> May I, too, please have a copy of your much belabored efforts on Stepping
>> Stones and Mosaics?
>
>Me too!  Me too?   T. in Montana
>
---<<Snippity-snip>>--


Me three? Me three!  Pleeeeeeeezzz....

V T Phelps
Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.



 * JDS Mail & News

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 04:54:16 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: trade show in June
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 07:53:48 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr26.35348.0>
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The show in Baltimore is open to everyone for classes.  I believe that part
of the show is open to the non-trade people.
If interested in more info e-mail:  agsa.info@offinger.com
                                    phone:  6l4-452-2552
Class size is limited so now is the time to inquire and sign up for the
classes you want.
Eleanor  
Eureka! Stained Glass
(yegnim@aol.com)
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 05:21:32 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:21:05 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr26.4215.0>
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P.S.  Dates of show:  Education-June 25-26-27
                                Exhibits-June 27-28
Eleanor
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 05:23:23 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:22:59 -0400 (EDT)
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Thank you Al for the correction. 
Eleanor
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 06:14:32 1997
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To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Incorporating glass with pottery
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:11:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Apr26.31129.0>
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While chating with a friend who is a potter we began tossing around =
ideas. The subject of incorporating S.G. designs into the pottery came =
up.
We decided that you would need to cut out the section to have glass,air =
dry, then fire the pottery and insert the glass section last.=20
Questions that arose from the discussion were:
1.could this be done ?
2.how to afix the glass onto the finished pot ?
   a.would foil adhere to the clay or
   b. would you need to use a silicone type glue ?
3.if you were going to insert it into the pot it might work on a flat =
sided object,but if you tried it on anything with a curve what would you =
use to make the mold for the glass ?
4.would it be water tight ? vases etc?

Things that we did decide:
1.not to be use for anything you would use food with
2.because of the difference in temps.used to fire the pottery/glass =
these would have to be seperate steps
3.you would probably need to use the foil method for the glass design.

I told her I would toss this out to the group for suggestions and =
thoughts.So what so you think? She lives in the Seattle (Kent) area and =
would love to get in contact with somebody out there.Anybody in that =
area?
Thanks in advance for any comments.( positive as well as negative)
Sue Reitmann
Artistry In Glass
Shorewood,MN
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 06:43:46 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Glass Atlas 
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:49:16 -0500
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>I have totally missed any notice of where to find the Glass Atlas. Can
>the information please be re-posted?

Hilary...
As far as I know nothing has been placed on the web site. Last week when I
sent my offering into Joyce, she said it would be ready soon. I'm sure she
will post a notice to the group when it's ready.
LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 06:49:22 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
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Subject: Re: question
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:54:59 -0500
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>...I'm making a terrarium from the "Elegant Lamps 2".Directions say
>after putting together the top and bottom insert bevels.Are there any tips on
>this?The bevels are alternated with free space.2  2X4 bevels then 4X4 gap.
>Will soldering the outside of the bevels be enough support since the inside
>of everything else is?...

I do terrariums also and think I've done exactly what you're talking about.
I've used bevels as pillars & arches, so to speak, to seperate the bottom
from the top of the terrarium. I've never had any problem with instability
once all the pieces are in. With some that have more of an arch look, I
solder wire in for a little more support...hope this eases your mind,
LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 07:08:14 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:02:51 -0600 (CST)
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Albert;
        For the newbies, and others like myself who don't remember, can you
explain the difference, and what you have to do, or is it to complicated, or
is there a web page we can go to?  MEg

At 05:04 PM 4/25/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> Is the show for the trade only, or can hobbyists attend? And how do I find
>> out about what classes are available?
>
>Hobbyists can't attend, so one should never describe oneself as a 
>hobbyist. They require certain proofs of "professional" status, one 
>or another combination of which is pretty simple to put together. 
>Frankly, you have always struck me as very professional ... so there 
>you go.
>
>Albert
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>International Guild of Glass Artists
>A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
>(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
>_________________________________________________________
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]
>
>----
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>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 07:08:20 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Incorporating glass with pottery
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:02:59 -0600 (CST)
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I tossed this around with my sister who is a potter, and we came to about
the same conclusions... she even made a few things and fired them, with
holes in.  They are sitting on my shelf waiting attention, and
brainstorms!!!!  We were into christmas things at the time (tells you how
long ago that was!). Also the other potter in the studio was excited about
using the glass scrap in her stuff, and as I understood her firing with the
glass in place, with a white slip so the glass would show up better.  I
thought she meant that she would push the glass into the wet clay..... but
she had to leave and go back to the states, so that conversation will have
to wait till Dec. when she returns.  I think we may have more potters on
line....if we do, please speak up!!!!  Meg

At 08:11 AM 4/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>While chating with a friend who is a potter we began tossing around =
>ideas. The subject of incorporating S.G. designs into the pottery came =
>up.
>We decided that you would need to cut out the section to have glass,air =
>dry, then fire the pottery and insert the glass section last.=20
>Questions that arose from the discussion were:
>1.could this be done ?
>2.how to afix the glass onto the finished pot ?
>   a.would foil adhere to the clay or
>   b. would you need to use a silicone type glue ?
>3.if you were going to insert it into the pot it might work on a flat =
>sided object,but if you tried it on anything with a curve what would you =
>use to make the mold for the glass ?
>4.would it be water tight ? vases etc?
>
>Things that we did decide:
>1.not to be use for anything you would use food with
>2.because of the difference in temps.used to fire the pottery/glass =
>these would have to be seperate steps
>3.you would probably need to use the foil method for the glass design.
>
>I told her I would toss this out to the group for suggestions and =
>thoughts.So what so you think? She lives in the Seattle (Kent) area and =
>would love to get in contact with somebody out there.Anybody in that =
>area?
>Thanks in advance for any comments.( positive as well as negative)
>Sue Reitmann
>Artistry In Glass
>Shorewood,MN
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 07:44:30 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Incorporating glass with pottery
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:49:14 +0000
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> While chating with a friend who is a potter we began tossing around =
> ideas. The subject of incorporating S.G. designs into the pottery came =
> up.
> We decided that you would need to cut out the section to have glass,air =
> dry, then fire the pottery and insert the glass section last.

Since I was a potter before I began working with glass, I can tell 
you you're on the right track: yes, glass can be inserted into holes 
cut into ceramic shapes, but you would have to do it after the 
ceramic piece is completely finished since clay shrinks at each step 
in its production. Inserting the glass into "leather-hard" ware would 
only end up cracking the pottery, since the clay would shrink around 
the glass, which would be unforgivingly "set" in its dimensions. You 
couldn't insert the glass prior to final firing, either (I'm talking 
stoneware here, which requires two firings, the bisque followed by 
the glaze firing).  You *could, however, after the pottery is fired 
and glazed, measure the hole(s) you'd cut, then dimension glass bits 
to fit into them. If you used a bead of dark-colored sealant to put 
them into a dark-colored piece of pottery, they'd likely be 
watertight, but not useable for food, as you rightly guess. I'll 
confess, though, that the idea of using silicone caulk or adhesive to 
join glass and ceramic at that stage is repugnant to me. <g>

Assuming that the coefficient of expansion of the glaze and the glass 
were close enough, glass bits pressed into the still-wet glaze prior 
to final firing would work, although that might not be the effect 
you're looking for ... the bits of glass would fuse into the glaze 
and, if large enough, would run down the sides of the pot, creating 
an interesting effect. I've seen that done.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 07:52:13 1997
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Subject: Re: Incorporating glass with pottery
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:51:47 -0400 (EDT)
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Sue wrote,
>While chating with a friend who is a potter we began tossing around =
>ideas. The subject of incorporating S.G. designs into the pottery came =
>up.>>

Back in the 70's when I was a potter and my husband was the glass artists we
did collaborations all the time.  I would fabricate clay pieces especially
for glass.  ie. throwing a plate then cutting out the center circle to add a
stained glass circle.  I would fire and glaze the pottery first and then add
the glass.  Where I was going to adhere the foil I would not glaze.  I would
wrap the foil around the circle and then add the glass finished piece and
then solder the whole thing.  Now ask me how these things are holding up???
I haven't a clue.  Sold a ton of them and never had anyone call to complain.  
I also would do bowls and cut out sort of holes and stick globs in them with
foil.  The only problem I had with them is that where the solder would run
onto the pottery that was not glazed it would stain sometimes.  So I had to
be really careful.
These pieces were also only sold as "art".  Nothing utilitarian about them.

You also mentioned she lives in the Seattle area?? Washington???  Loads of
glass artist there.....and glass galleries too.

Good Luck.  

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 08:04:49 1997
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Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
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>         For the newbies, and others like myself who don't remember, can you
> explain the difference, and what you have to do, or is it to complicated, or
> is there a web page we can go to?  

There are a couple of places. First, there's 
http://www.creative-industries.com/agsa/ 
which seems to be the place to pitch people to join the organization 
and exhibit at their show. Second, there's 
http://www.creative-industries.com/source/attendee.html
which includes the following: 

The Buyers
          Because this is a trade-only show, the exhibitors can
          concentrate on YOU and your business. Anyone who retails or
          wholesales art glass supplies or would like to add art glass
          supplies to their store, is invited to attend. All who
          register for the show must be able to qualify as trade
          buyers. Children under 14 are not allowed in exhibits or
          educational sessions.

although they don't say anywhere on that page what the exact 
requirements *are. (Those appeared in the printed literature, but 
after I posted the info in one of the Online News Memos, I tossed it, 
I'm sorry to say.)

However, neither of those is the page I was directed to the other 
day; that was given to me (I'm *sure) by Patty Parrish or someone 
else at Offinger, but I'm durned if I can *find it.

Albert



Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 08:18:22 1997
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Subject: Re: Incorporating glass with pottery
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Albert wrote,

From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 08:28:38 1997
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Subject: Re:  Incorporating glass with pottery
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:30:15 -0500
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Hi Sue and all,

I am also a potter and have made pieces incorporating glass and clay. 
After much experimentation, I found that it is best to completely finish
and glaze-fire the pottery BEFORE adding the glass (unless you wish to
use bits of glass as part of your glaze).

I have attached glass to glazed pottery using silicone glue, epoxy glue
and copper foil .  When using glue, I also suggest leaving the clay
unglazed where the glue will contact it.

When using copper foil, I hand-cut the foil that was to be used on the
clay parts (because of the thickness of the clay) OR trimmed the clay
when it was leather-hard to a thickness that would be suited with
commercially available foil (this is risky).

Also did a bit of experimentation with lead came and found MY results
unsatisfactory (you may have better luck).

Shirley and her kiln gods
Grapeland, Tx.
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 09:39:49 1997
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Subject: Re: Incorporating glass with pottery
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:37:17 -0400
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Reitmann wrote:
> 
> While chating with a friend who is a potter we began tossing around =
> ideas. The subject of incorporating S.G. designs into the pottery came =
> up.
> We decided that you would need to cut out the section to have glass,air =
> dry, then fire the pottery and insert the glass section last.=20
> Questions that arose from the discussion were:
> 1.could this be done ?
> 2.how to afix the glass onto the finished pot ?
>    a.would foil adhere to the clay or
>    b. would you need to use a silicone type glue ?
> 3.if you were going to insert it into the pot it might work on a flat =
> sided object,but if you tried it on anything with a curve what would you =
> use to make the mold for the glass ?
> 4.would it be water tight ? vases etc?
> 
> Things that we did decide:
> 1.not to be use for anything you would use food with
> 2.because of the difference in temps.used to fire the pottery/glass =
> these would have to be seperate steps
> 3.you would probably need to use the foil method for the glass design.
> 
> I told her I would toss this out to the group for suggestions and =
> thoughts.So what so you think? She lives in the Seattle (Kent) area and =
> would love to get in contact with somebody out there.Anybody in that =
> area?
> Thanks in advance for any comments.( positive as well as negative)
> Sue Reitmann
> Artistry In Glass
> Shorewood,MN
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i think in one of the last issues of either some glass magazine or my
wood magazine, some guy turned a few bowls and inserted glass. some of
the glass was slumped though, to fit right. a pretty cool effect. 

as for glue, you would have to experiment, being that pottery absorbs
pretty fast. though if a glaze were applied, find a glue would'nt be as
hard, it would seal the surface. i think it called E5000 craft glue,
very strong but smelly. worth a try.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 09:42:14 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
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Subject: Re: Incorporating glass with pottery
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:40:01 -0400
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Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> I tossed this around with my sister who is a potter, and we came to about
> the same conclusions... she even made a few things and fired them, with
> holes in.  They are sitting on my shelf waiting attention, and
> brainstorms!!!!  We were into christmas things at the time (tells you how
> long ago that was!). Also the other potter in the studio was excited about
> using the glass scrap in her stuff, and as I understood her firing with the
> glass in place, with a white slip so the glass would show up better.  I
> thought she meant that she would push the glass into the wet clay..... but
> she had to leave and go back to the states, so that conversation will have
> to wait till Dec. when she returns.  I think we may have more potters on
> line....if we do, please speak up!!!!  Meg
> 

well, pushing the glass into the wet clay then removing it should allow
room for the glass after it fired. however those things tend to shrink a
bit, so some firing experiments would have to be done.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 10:03:59 1997
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 13:07:12 +0000
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Hello, again.

Another Guild member's site's up on bungi.com  This time it's the 
work of Anita Pepper, Heirloom Glass, Jackson, Michigan. Go 
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/apepper to see her work.

Apparently this morning's note did *not include the address I 
promised you (is it below?), so if you'd like to see Pat Tyer's work, 
it's at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/tyser  She runs a studio 
called "Illusions" in Rochester, New York, doing fused glass work.


Albert

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 11:21:04 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 13:53:45 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970426135345.007b8940@pop.bridge.net>
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At 05:04 PM 4/25/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> Is the show for the trade only, or can hobbyists attend? And how do I find
>> out about what classes are available?
>
>Hobbyists can't attend, so one should never describe oneself as a 
>hobbyist. They require certain proofs of "professional" status, one 
>or another combination of which is pretty simple to put together. 
>Frankly, you have always struck me as very professional ... so there 
>you go.
>
>Albert

Why, thank you! I certainly hope to be professional in all my actions. 
Perhaps I should explain I was enquiring for a friend. ;d

M.-J.

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 15:02:33 1997
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From: Joni Tornwall <glasqult@1st.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: slides of American stained glass
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 18:06:12 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr26.18612.0>
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Hello!  I am a student in a stained glass class in the Building
Preservation Program at Belmont Technical College in St. Clairsville,
OH.  We study the history of stained glass and our instructor is looking
for some slides that show examples of stained glass from each period in
American architecture and art, for example, Colonial, Federal, Gothic
Revival, Opalescent, Neo-Gothic, etc.  He is currently taking pictures
from books and making slides, but would like to find a source for higher
quality slides.  Does anyone happen to know of such a source?  Thanks,
Joni

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 16:28:09 1997
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Subject: trying to respond to Christie Wood
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:27:37 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr26.152737.0>
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Christie,
I tried to e-mail you back, but had the wrong e-mail address.  Please e-mail
me at yegnim@aol.com   Thank you.
Sorry Bungies, I hope you don't mind, but this was the only way I could try
to locate Christie.
Eleanor
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 17:16:42 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
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Subject: Re: New Kid on the Block
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 00:24:45 +0000
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Hello Suzanne and Dani,

"flaming" is a very descriptive word,  I visualize a match setting 
off a great big bon-fire and someone going "whoooosh" up in flames...
I doesn't take much anymore, it seems - for someone (as we say over 
here) to lose their rag.
Welcome, anyhow Dani, and don't hesitate to speak up. We are all 
quite a friendly bunch really.
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Suzanne wrote:
not sure what flaming is myself. Maybe someone will fill me in. 
Possibly it's getting upset at what someone says?





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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 19:49:59 1997
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <glass@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: New Kid on the Block
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 97 22:29:39 -0400
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Hi Elisabeth, Toby, Dani & Amy,

>"flaming" is a very descriptive word,  I visualize a match setting 
>off a great big bon-fire and someone going "whoooosh" up in flames...
>I doesn't take much anymore, it seems - for someone (as we say over 
>here) to lose their rag.
>Welcome, anyhow Dani, and don't hesitate to speak up. We are all 
>quite a friendly bunch really.

I have noticed the whole E-mail bunch uses descriptive words. Flaming, 
lurking (!!), losing their rag...Elisabeth over here, when
someone's "on the rag" they are female and at a certain time of the month 
when
they are feeling particularly nasty! Or when you are "ragging" someone, 
you are
scolding/teasing them!

Suzanne


suzanne albright<suzy@comcat.com>

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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 19:50:04 1997
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From: KrissyMar@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:49:02 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr26.18492.0>
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I'll be at the trade show also! I can't wait to go, some interesting classes
& the glass cutting contest will be interesting to watch. I look forward to
meeting you all there

Krissy
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 20:42:22 1997
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From: Vafi5@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:41:49 -0400 (EDT)
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I would very much like to receive the info on stepping stones
please.Thanks.VAFI5@AOL.COM.
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 20:56:59 1997
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: New Kid on the Block
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:52:41 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr26.195241.0>
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Hi Elisabeth,

Baby Blue Jay is doing very well still, had his(her) second warm bath
and blow dry today.  Another storm squall came through here this
morning-dropped nearly 7 inches of rain in less than 2 hours.  A small
tornado touched down at Desoto Square Mall in Bradenton just to the
north of here.  I was called to rescue 2 more baby birds downed by the
storm today.  One was critical, and the other I took to the wildlife vet
that specializes in rescued wildlife here. Both were Grackles, fell 20
feet from their Palm Tree nest and hit the concrete sidewalk. 
Fortunately for the Grackles pair there still seems to be one or two in
the nest, that they can take care of.
  
>From the warmest, dryest winter in history here, short of more than 12
inches of rain from normal, in 3 days we are now 3" ahead of record. 
The wettest April on record.  Wow.

Ah well such is life, very tired tonight, will write more tomorrow.  But
just wanted to let you know the little blue jay is still doing very
well.  I think my Cockatiel likes him, too.

Lee 

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hello Suzanne and Dani,
> 
> "flaming" is a very descriptive word,  I visualize a match setting
> off a great big bon-fire and someone going "whoooosh" up in flames...
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From owner-glass Sat Apr 26 20:58:45 1997
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Subject: OOOppppppps-Sorry-
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:54:46 -0400
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Sorry all Buniginians,

Posted my private note to Elisabeth to the list.  Too tired tonight.

Sorry again,

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 03:02:45 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: slides of American stained glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 06:08:50 +0000
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> Hello!  I am a student in a stained glass class in the Building
> Preservation Program at Belmont Technical College in St. Clairsville,
> OH.  We study the history of stained glass and our instructor is looking
> for some slides that show examples of stained glass from each period in
> American architecture and art

The Guild is currently organizing the slides from the Architectural 
Art Glass Light Show that was such an enormous success over the past 
few years into sets of slides that can be rented or purchased. It 
will probably be some time before those 1,500 slides are ready to put 
on offer, but they would certainly be announced here.

Those slides are mostly of contemporary glass. Julie Sloan's thinking 
of putting some of her thousands of slides into purchaseable sets, as 
well. Hers are exclusively of stained glass created during the late 
1800s and early 1900s in the U.S., although she has presented slide 
shows of stained glass from the past 1,000 years. Would there be any 
interest in sets of slides like that?

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work]

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 03:03:20 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: New Kid on the Block
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> someone's "on the rag" they are female and at a certain time of the month 

A phrase considered so completely sexist in these parts that one's 
life is in danger if it's used, even jokingly.

A
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 07:33:37 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: new hobbyist
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 09:31:52 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <199704271431.JAA26859@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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good morning bungians,

My name is Len and I am joining the ranks of S.G. hobbyists. After 23 years
(give or take) in numerous capacities in the S.G field, I have decided to
quite business. I had been contemplating this decision for over a year now.
Yesterday I received a call from a potential client (the usual new home in
the burbs deal) about some windows I told her I do not do S.G. anymore, that
was the plunge I needed to take to validate my decision. It felt very
strange but it was followed by a deep sense of relief.

The enthusiasm and energy from glass@bungi helped quite a bit in keeping me
going this long whether you all knew it or not..thanks.

So now I can do some  artsy-fartsy stuff in my own house ( always have more
ideas then time eh? ) and for the time being generate income as a manager of
an office building thanks to a friend who has always supported my work

Whats next career-wise? time will tell. I must tell you all that I did make
an attempt a while ago to design and market a self feeding one handed
soldering iron, along the lines of a hot glue gun, it was feasible but
could'nt get close to the price point nor the acceptable weight. Albert was
in on this one a little until he told me billing rate as a consultant  ;-)
just kidding of course.

So now it's glass for fun ONLY!  What to make ..what to make... spontanious
creations sounds good..... lets see I got this pile of concave mirror thats
been lying around here forever...and then there's all that beach glass I've
collected for years and that role of lead sheet Hmm.... kinda folk art wall
hangings incorporating findings? that might work................... hey!
maybe I can sell some of these! no...no... aargh!  :-)


Len

resume available upon request  ;-)

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 08:21:38 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: New Kid on the Block
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:21:06 -0400 (EDT)
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Albert wrote,
>
>> someone's "on the rag" they are female and at a certain time of the month 
>
>A phrase considered so completely sexist in these parts that one's 
>life is in danger if it's used, even jokingly.
>
A close second to "it must be PMS".  Refering to another time of the month.

Geez no wonder the months go by so fast.

A person could lose body parts for either of these remarks.

Just some lite coversation.....

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 08:34:49 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: new hobbyist
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:34:11 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199704271534.LAA15828@water.waterw.com>
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Len wrote,
>good morning bungians,
>
>My name is Len and I am joining the ranks of S.G. hobbyists. After 23 years
>(give or take) in numerous capacities in the S.G field, I have decided to
>quite business. I had been contemplating this decision for over a year now.
>Yesterday I received a call from a potential client (the usual new home in
>the burbs deal) about some windows I told her I do not do S.G. anymore, that
>was the plunge I needed to take to validate my decision. It felt very
>strange but it was followed by a deep sense of relief.>>

Sounds like some sort of disease you had.....:)


>So now it's glass for fun ONLY!  >>

Geez, I am sorry that you didn't have fun doing it before......I cannot
remember one day that hasn't had some sort of amusement in it!!!!

I wish you much luck in whatever you do.  Are you selling your studio?  I
guess closing a business could be really painful.  We are just opening up a
second studio
so I can't even imagine closing one at this point.   

Maybe with your extra creativity you will find the place you want to be.

And like the shoemaker's children who didn't have shoes.....now you can
create for yourself.

Hmmm...a self feeding soldering iron......how lazy can artists get???? (Only
joking)

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 08:35:12 1997
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From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: New Kid on the Block
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 08:34:37 PDT
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[In the message entitled "Re: New Kid on the Block" on Apr 27, 11:21, pj friend writes:]

Note to those involved...

> >> someone's "on the rag" they are female and at a certain time of the month 
> >
> >A phrase considered so completely sexist in these parts that one's 
> >life is in danger if it's used, even jokingly.
> >
> A close second to "it must be PMS".  Refering to another time of the month.

People,...People...must I always remind someone,...please stick to the
topic of 'stained glass'!  If you wish to talk with someone on the list
PLEASE do so individually.


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 10:11:24 1997
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: New Kid on the Block
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 97 13:13:18 -0400
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Glenna wrote:
>People,...People...must I always remind someone,...please stick to the
>topic of 'stained glass'!  If you wish to talk with someone on the list
>PLEASE do so individually.

Yes maam. I apologize. Wasn't thinking. 

Now I must ask, did you "flame" me? 



suzanne albright<suzy@comcat.com>

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 10:17:00 1997
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Help!
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:15:40 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr27.91540.0>
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Does anyone out there know where one might acquire a pair of West German
pattern shears?  None of our suppliers sell them anymore.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 11:39:44 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
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Subject: Re: new hobbyist
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:37:17 -0400
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pj friend wrote:
> 
> Len wrote,
> >good morning bungians,
> >
> >My name is Len and I am joining the ranks of S.G. hobbyists. After 23 years
> >(give or take) in numerous capacities in the S.G field, I have decided to
> >quite business. I had been contemplating this decision for over a year now.
> >Yesterday I received a call from a potential client (the usual new home in
> >the burbs deal) about some windows I told her I do not do S.G. anymore, that
> >was the plunge I needed to take to validate my decision. It felt very
> >strange but it was followed by a deep sense of relief.>>
> 
> Sounds like some sort of disease you had.....:)
> 
> >So now it's glass for fun ONLY!  >>
> 
> Geez, I am sorry that you didn't have fun doing it before......I cannot
> remember one day that hasn't had some sort of amusement in it!!!!
> 
> I wish you much luck in whatever you do.  Are you selling your studio?  I
> guess closing a business could be really painful.  We are just opening up a
> second studio
> so I can't even imagine closing one at this point.
> 
> Maybe with your extra creativity you will find the place you want to be.
> 
> And like the shoemaker's children who didn't have shoes.....now you can
> create for yourself.
> 
> Hmmm...a self feeding soldering iron......how lazy can artists get???? (Only
> joking)
> 
> my best,
> pj
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

as far as i know there is a self-feeding iron, weller makes it i think.
generally it was designed for electronics. theough for a stained glass
application, it would make a pretty good tacking iron. though a little
expensive for just that.

BTW does anyone here have a Inland Inst-Heat? my unger tip is buring a
hole right through the middle...always in the middle of a big
project..always... i was wondering if anyone knows if these things are
any good...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 12:59:05 1997
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Slides of American Stained Glass
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:56:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr27.115644.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Albert-
I would be interested in having access to both sets of slides, especially
the old stuff.  Thanks.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 13:15:21 1997
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:10:21 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr27.61021.0>
References: <<1997Apr26.18492.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Did I miss something.  Whose Trade Show is in June and where is the Trade
Show being held?  Everyone seems to know but I have not heard of one.
Thanks for the infor.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 13:51:12 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: Slides of American Stained Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 16:57:35 +0000
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> I would be interested in having access to both sets of slides, especially
> the old stuff.  Thanks.


Thanks for you input, although I don't have the foggiest idea
when/how we'd find time to pull them together. So many slides, so
little time. We'll see.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 13:51:47 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 16:57:35 +0000
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> Did I miss something.  Whose Trade Show is in June and where is the Trade
> Show being held?  Everyone seems to know but I have not heard of one.
> Thanks for the infor.  Peggy

AGSA, Baltimore. That's the [International] Art Glass Suppliers 
Association. Did you see the web site addresses? They're listed under 
"A" in the Sources Guide, too (address below?).

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work]

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 15:27:12 1997
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From: Topp Shop & Gallery <DIACCA@tznet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: suscribe
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:20:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970427222048.00697f08@mail.tznet.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Please put me back on the list.  Thanks, Pat DIACCA Topp
>From Packer Mania Land..........THE TOPP SHOP & GALLERY, Works by DIACCA,
Kiln worked glass bowls, plates & jewelry.

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 17:43:05 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: slides of American stained glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:50:06 +0000
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Hi Albert,
Yes, I would most definitely be interested in the slides. Please keep 
me posted.
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 18:33:18 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: new hobbyist
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:31:52 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Apr27.203152.0>
References: <<199704271431.JAA26859@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> My name is Len and I am joining the ranks of S.G. hobbyists. 


ACCCCCKKKKKK!

But wait! Maybe all is not lost. Even a hobbyest can have attitude,
right? Even a hobbyest can cut right to the chase, right? Even a
hobbyest can give advice, right? Well, then what the heck? Maybe you can
learn to love SG again if you don't have to earn your living doing it.

Best of luck in your new career.
Hilary
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 18:48:33 1997
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From: Reitmann <oddjob@scc.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Thanks:Pottery & Glass
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:43:47 -0500
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Many thanks to those who responded to my query! You are a great group.
Wonderful suggestions and I appreciated all the how to's. My friend thanks you too.
Sue Reitmann

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 18:52:44 1997
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From: Reitmann <oddjob@scc.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Len: Best Wishes
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:47:24 -0500
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Best wishes to you Len. Enjoy your hobby !!
Weren't you from the Lake Pippen area?
Are you going to keep all your supplies just in case you might =
"get-round to it" one day? If not I'd be interested in purchasing =
anything you might part with!
(especially your ex-customers and referals).
I live in Excelsior,MN.,just west of the Twin Cities.
E-mail (  oddjob@scc.net  )
Sue Reitmann


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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 18:54:16 1997
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From: pom@netbistro.com (J. Smith)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 97 18:57 PDT
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I would love this info as well!1>>LByrne21@aol.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dawn:
>>> 
>>> May I, too, please have a copy of your much belabored efforts on Stepping
>>> Stones and Mosaics?
>>
>>Me too!  Me too?   T. in Montana
>>
>---<<Snippity-snip>>--
>
>
>Me three? Me three!  Pleeeeeeeezzz....
>
>V T Phelps
>Shoreline Glassworks, Ltd.
>
>
>
> * JDS Mail & News
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 19:15:39 1997
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From: Bubstah@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new hobbyist
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:14:15 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr27.181415.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have an inland insta heat iron and from the day I purchased it found it
very uncomfortable to use.  The iron either didn't heat properly and didn't
melt the solder smoothly to run a decent bead or it glopped it and still
didn't run a decent bead. I contacted the company and they suggested my temp
control was not regulating the heat properly and not the iron.  I tried
changing the regulation from low numbers to high numbers and still have had
no luck with this iron.  I have since purchased a new iron from
Whitemore-Durghan and have not had a chance to use it yet.  Will let you
know.

Bubstah
P,S.  I even changed the tip to no avail.  Sorry to be a downer and not what
you wanted to hear but this is my experience with that particular iron and
I've played with it for over a year before I decided to buy a new iron.


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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 19:30:38 1997
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <glass@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: New Kid on the Block
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 97 22:31:31 -0400
Message-ID: <199704280228.WAA18053@uz.comcat.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>I'm Dani Greer, who, with my
>husband, Michael own Greer Gallery & Studios in Colorado.  We're a custom
>shop and specialize in kiln-fired glass painting.  I found out about the
>group through pj Friend, who saw our website and sent some nice comments. 
>We're located at http://eme.usa.net/greerstudios/  -- it's being updated as
>I write so any constructive comments are welcome.

Dani, I meant to tell you that I looked at your pictures, and they are 
excellent. I particularly loved the bird and pelican. You guys do nice 
work!



suzanne albright<suzy@comcat.com>

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 20:32:07 1997
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From: pom@netbistro.com (J. Smith)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 97 20:34 PDT
Message-ID: <m0wLhDY-000LYJC@netbistro.com>
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>Return-Path: <owner-glass@daver.bungi.com>
>Received: from daver.bungi.com by netbistro.com with smtp
>	(Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0wKxki-000LXUa; Fri, 25 Apr 97 20:02 PDT
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>	id m0wKxKk-0000hQa; Fri, 25 Apr 97 19:35 PDT
>X-Path: aol.com!LByrne21
>From: LByrne21@aol.com
>To: glass@bungi.com
>Subject: Re: Compilation of Archive Notes on Stepping Stones and Mosaics
>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:35:17 -0400 (EDT)
>Message-ID: <1997Apr25.183517.0>
>Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
>Precedence: bulk
>
>Dawn:
>
>May I, too, please have a copy of your much belabored efforts on Stepping
>Stones and Mosaics?
>
>                                                 Thank you
>
>                                                 Lavergne    LByrne@aol.com
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
>Stepping Stones & Mosaics you say !I would love the info!
                                       Big Thanks
                                       Jennifer pom@netbistro.com

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 20:32:08 1997
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From: pom@netbistro.com (J. Smith)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Stepping stones and Mosaics
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 97 20:34 PDT
Message-ID: <m0wLhDX-000LYPC@netbistro.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Would love to receive the compilation of notes on stepping stones & mosaics.
Iam ready to try something a bit different!
Many Thanks for the info!

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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 21:22:33 1997
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From: telusplanet.net!lanas
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: web site
Date: Sun Apr 27 21:21:13 1997
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.185613.0>
References: <<m0w3OYU-00019AC@daver.bungi.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Glenna Rand wrote:
> 
> [In the message entitled "web site" on Mar  8, 10:23, "Steven J. Moore" writes:]
> Hi Steven,
> 
> > I am new to the net and got your e-mail address from another contact.  Could
> > you reply with your web site address.  I understand that your site is quite
> > active for people who whis to exchange ideas, patterns, etc.
> >
> > I have been into stained glass about 15 years.
> 
> I currently run an email mailing list with about 300 people on it.
> It's free.  All I ask is that people stick to the stained glass
> topic.  My web site address is:  http://www.bungi.com
> My email address:  gjr@bungi.com
> 
> Let me know if you'd like me to add you on...
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassplease delete me from the list thanks for all the funky info but i can't 
even find the time to read the mail much less put any of the information 
to use!
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From owner-glass Sun Apr 27 21:54:10 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: new hobbyist
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:59:35 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970427235935.0069753c@busprod.com>
References: <<199704271534.LAA15828@water.waterw.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>BTW does anyone here have a Inland Inst-Heat? my unger tip is buring a
>hole right through the middle...always in the middle of a big
>project..always... i was wondering if anyone knows if these things are
>any good...

Mike...Forget the Unger! I hate to put it like that, but I have grown an
intense dislike for the thing! In less than a year I have burned holes in 2
tips. The company is terrible to deal with, but did replace the first one
claiming a manufacturer's error...however it did the same thing again! I do
everything right and don't abuse it, but it's not holding up.

How about a good iron that can withstand quite a bit of use... any
recommendations out there???
LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 03:33:45 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "\"M.-J.\"" <athena@bridge.net>, "[unknown]" <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Re: Glass on Glass
Date: 28 Apr 97 06:27:34 EDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.102734.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "M.-J."
>Clear colored glass had been cut in to 2" squares and applied to the
surface of blocks in a glass block wall. None of the grout lines were covered.

There was no foiling or grouting.

Any idea what adhesive must have been used to apply them?
<

Could be the stuff I use to glue glass to glass - GE Silicon.  I get it at my
local hardware supply store or home remodeling store.  Works great.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 07:01:09 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: new hobbyist
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:58:15 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.55815.0>
References: <<1997Apr27.181415.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Bubstah@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have an inland insta heat iron and from the day I purchased it found it
> very uncomfortable to use.  The iron either didn't heat properly and didn't
> melt the solder smoothly to run a decent bead or it glopped it and still
> didn't run a decent bead. I contacted the company and they suggested my temp
> control was not regulating the heat properly and not the iron.  I tried
> changing the regulation from low numbers to high numbers and still have had
> no luck with this iron.  I have since purchased a new iron from
> Whitemore-Durghan and have not had a chance to use it yet.  Will let you
> know.
> 
> Bubstah
> P,S.  I even changed the tip to no avail.  Sorry to be a downer and not what
> you wanted to hear but this is my experience with that particular iron and
> I've played with it for over a year before I decided to buy a new iron.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


that's ok this is what i want to here. i rather find out now then later.
mainly i need a cermic, or a light weight, fast heating iron. currently
i have ungar if the tip goes bad the heater has to be replaced too. i
need an iron that not only does the above requirments but also has
seperate tips; small, large, etc. 

anyone else had any luck with such an iron? it seems instaheat is junk,
as told to by others.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 07:06:40 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: new hobbyist
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:03:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.6343.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970427235935.0069753c@busprod.com>>
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Precedence: bulk

LJ Maas wrote:
> 
> >BTW does anyone here have a Inland Inst-Heat? my unger tip is buring a
> >hole right through the middle...always in the middle of a big
> >project..always... i was wondering if anyone knows if these things are
> >any good...
> 
> Mike...Forget the Unger! I hate to put it like that, but I have grown an
> intense dislike for the thing! In less than a year I have burned holes in 2
> tips. The company is terrible to deal with, but did replace the first one
> claiming a manufacturer's error...however it did the same thing again! I do
> everything right and don't abuse it, but it's not holding up.
> 
> How about a good iron that can withstand quite a bit of use... any
> recommendations out there???
> LJ
>   ****************************************************************
> LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
> ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
> "Unique Stained Glass Creations"
> <http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>
> 
> OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
> <http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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yeah that's the same problem that's happening to me, i shold probably
complain. though this one did last a year, but this is the main reason
why i'm fed up, and want to switch companies. right now one side of the
iron is good, the other, a hole is forming really quickly, right now i
just want to finish my piece. it's really difficult to work with a tip
with a hole in it, it keeps catching on things, and keeps coroding.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 07:07:08 1997
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From: mcFrenzy <pristine@gr.cns.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Another Site.
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:58:36 -0400
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This was sent to me. Has anyone else seen it?
Seems like it's all original work. A bit naive, even.

http://www.home.ch/~spaw1082/
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 07:44:41 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Another Site.
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:41:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.64136.0>
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mcFrenzy wrote:
> 
> This was sent to me. Has anyone else seen it?
> Seems like it's all original work. A bit naive, even.
> 
> http://www.home.ch/~spaw1082/
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

there's some intristing work there...wish i knew what some of those
things are :). very colorfull, i like the starburst affect on those star
panels (with the light). 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 08:40:05 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Soldering Irons
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:35:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.7356.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970427235935.0069753c@busprod.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Try the Inland 100W Studio Iron.  I have 2 now, so I can have one at one
temp, second at a higher heat.  Great for dec. soldering on 3D work. 
Run them with controlers (the controller will outlast the iron) $29.95
retail at Glass Crafters.  Controler is $19.95  Get 2 of each, and you
can do continuius soldering..  (One Inland Iron was defective, would not
heat, took it right back and got replacement)  Both work great.  Not a
lot of money to invest, and they just keep 'going' and 'going' and
'going'  One other thing I do is have a variety of tips,  use the 3/8s
for regular beading, smaller tip for dec. work.  With two irons going,
saves a lot of time, don't have to stop and change tips, etc. I have let
one or both 'idle' (lower heat) and sometimes come back an hour latter,
no burn through.  (Clean tip with sal-amoniaic block, if you do this) 

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations


> How about a good iron that can withstand quite a bit of use... any
> recommendations out there???
> LJ
>   ****************************************************************
> LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
> ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 09:15:23 1997
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From: "last name: anthony" <panthony@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
Subject: Re: Another Site.
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:14:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.81442.0>
References: <<1997Apr28.55836.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

mcFrenzy wrote:
> 
> This was sent to me. Has anyone else seen it?
> Seems like it's all original work. A bit naive, even.
> 
> http://www.home.ch/~spaw1082/
> ----
I really liked his work. It seems very sophisticated to me. But did you
have a hard time seeing his links?? I felt like I was groping in the
dark! Only after I saw it all in German did I realize that there is an
English version. (click near the top of the homepage, in case you can't
see it)
--SB
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 11:18:28 1997
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From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Subject: Need e-mail addresses for Phelps, T. in MT, J. Smith
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 13:23:15 PDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.202315.0>
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V T Phelps, T. in Montana, J. Smith,

Please send me your e-mail address so I can forward a copy of the file to you.

Dawn
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 11:43:36 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Len: Best Wishes
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:43:09 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.10439.0>
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Len,

Thank you for writing such a heartfelt note to everyone.  It must have taken
a lot for you to decide to step aside from a career that you've been involved
with for so long.  I admire your courage and wish you all the best.  And I do
hope that you find your inspiration again, wherever that may lead you, and
that the journey brings you much happiness and excitement for life.

Warm regards,
Susie
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 12:15:09 1997
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Re: new hobbyist
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:13:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.111344.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

We use the Weller W100 for lead work with satisfactory results, but have
yet to find a good, beefy iron for copper foil work - haven't searched much
beyond our glass suppliers as we don't do that much foil work, but it would
be nice to have a good iron on hand.  Would love some recommendations, too!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 12:48:56 1997
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From: eldondo1@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: web site
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:44:19 EDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.194419.0>
References: <<m0w3OYU-00019AC@daver.bungi.com>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Glenna; I tried your e-mail address -no server found it said ,so
Bunginians I'm sorry you all will have another message, please put me on
your list,ok? Don DeVoto
On Sun Apr 27 21:21:13 1997 daver!telusplanet.net!lanas@staff.juno.com
writes:
>Glenna Rand wrote:
>> 
>> [In the message entitled "web site" on Mar  8, 10:23, "Steven J. 
>Moore" writes:]
>> Hi Steven,
>> 
>> > I am new to the net and got your e-mail address from another 
>contact.  Could
>> > you reply with your web site address.  I understand that your site 
>is quite
>> > active for people who whis to exchange ideas, patterns, etc.
>> >
>> > I have been into stained glass about 15 years.
>> 
>> I currently run an email mailing list with about 300 people on it.
>> It's free.  All I ask is that people stick to the stained glass
>> topic.  My web site address is:  http://www.bungi.com
>> My email address:  gjr@bungi.com
>> 
>> Let me know if you'd like me to add you on...
>> 
>> --
>> Glenna Rand
>> gjr@bungi.com
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassplease delete me 
>from the list thanks for all the funky info but i can't 
>even find the time to read the mail much less put any of the 
>information 
>to use!
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 13:42:14 1997
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From: robert crane <robertcrane@thezone.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Need e-mail addresses for Phelps, T. in MT, J. Smith
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:21:07 -0230
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.15337.0>
References: <<1997Apr28.202315.0>>
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Organization: thezone
Precedence: bulk

Dawn wrote:
> 
> V T Phelps, T. in Montana, J. Smith,
> 
> Please send me your e-mail address so I can forward a copy of the file to you.
> 
> Dawn
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassDawn: some time ago I also asked for the same information but failed to 
forward my e-mail address    I am robertcrane@thezone.net  and would 
greatly appreciate it if you would forward info on stepping stones. 
Thanks in anticipation
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 15:04:04 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:01:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.1419.0>
References: <<1997Apr28.7356.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

leestat7 wrote:
> 
> Try the Inland 100W Studio Iron.  I have 2 now, so I can have one at one
> temp, second at a higher heat.  Great for dec. soldering on 3D work.
> Run them with controlers (the controller will outlast the iron) $29.95
> retail at Glass Crafters.  Controler is $19.95  Get 2 of each, and you
> can do continuius soldering..  (One Inland Iron was defective, would not
> heat, took it right back and got replacement)  Both work great.  Not a
> lot of money to invest, and they just keep 'going' and 'going' and
> 'going'  One other thing I do is have a variety of tips,  use the 3/8s
> for regular beading, smaller tip for dec. work.  With two irons going,
> saves a lot of time, don't have to stop and change tips, etc. I have let
> one or both 'idle' (lower heat) and sometimes come back an hour latter,
> no burn through.  (Clean tip with sal-amoniaic block, if you do this)
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> 
> > How about a good iron that can withstand quite a bit of use... any
> > recommendations out there???
> > LJ
> >   ****************************************************************
> > LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
> > ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i think i had one of these once; the type with the little knurled nut
that kept the tip on. it was a good iron, the only thing i hated about
it was the cord. the cord was'nt the lamp type, it had a mind of it's
own, very stiff...

does anyone haver a Hakko? i think they make irons...


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
----
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 15:11:02 1997
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From: Vafi5@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: web site
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:10:30 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.141030.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Please add me to your list.Thanks.VAFI5@AOL.COM
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 15:28:56 1997
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From: suzanne albright <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Another Site.
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 97 18:30:46 -0400
Message-ID: <199704282228.SAA22351@uz.comcat.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



>This was sent to me. Has anyone else seen it?
>Seems like it's all original work. A bit naive, even.
>
>http://www.home.ch/~spaw1082/

I just went there and was impressed. Very different stuff. 
It's definitely worth a look.


suzanne albright<suzy@comcat.com>

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 15:32:07 1997
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From: Garry McKenna <mnvve3@kwic.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: terrariums
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:29:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970428222917.00695b7c@mail.kwic.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi!  I am a member or the so called bungi lurker squad - I have finally
found something that I may be able to help with!  I have been away for a few
days and just downloaded a few days worth of E-mail and found this question
about the terrarium in Elegant Lamps 2.  I may be able to help.
Unfortunately I have to use my hands to type instead of making motions in to
air to show you what I mean.  I  have made three of these terrariums, and
they are fabulous! However, as far as I am concerned, you cannot make these
suckers without another pair of willing hands to help.  Your helper needs to
hold the finished top and bottom resting on its side while you insert the
bevel sections in and use miles and miles of black electricians tape to hold
it all together. Then, slowly, and carefully tack solder. You can now use a
box with crumpled newspapers, wedgies, or your friends hands to hold it even
while you solder inside and out.  I decided that if I was going to put earth
and plants in and maybe hang this whole affair that it needed to be
re-inforced, so i used the inside wire part of a hinge set that I can buy in
3 ft sections and soldered it length-wise (from top to bottom) in 4 places
around.
I'm sorry if I have been too long winded.  I'm still not sure if I have been
clear enough.  If not let me know, and perhaps I can clarify.
Linda.

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 19:40:28 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:42:03 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970428214203.00693e3c@busprod.com>
References: <<1997Apr28.7356.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

>i think i had one of these once; the type with the little knurled nut
>that kept the tip on. it was a good iron, the only thing i hated about
>it was the cord. the cord was'nt the lamp type, it had a mind of it's
>own, very stiff...
>
>does anyone haver a Hakko? i think they make irons...

I had to wait to hear from my friends in Phoenix for some more iron info.
He has had a studio for 10 years and has been doing stained glass for twice
as long! He said he's used Weller, Inland, Ungar, Mika, and Hakko irons. He
said for quality and durability  he has found either the Weller W100 or the
Inland 100 watt to be personal favorites. He also added that Hakko makes an
85 watt iron that's guaranteed not to overheat and comes with a pretty good
warantee so as to avoid the pitfalls that Mike and I ran into with a hole
burning thru the tip of the Ungars.

I priced these irons at a couple of places today and found that mail order
should be the way to go. Delphi offers the Inland 100 watt at $21.95 with
tips running aprrox. $7.40. Warner-Criv. offers the Weller W100 for
$54.95...the Hakko is at Delphi for $65.50.

Anyone have any pros or cons they'd like to throw in regarding these choices?
LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 19:59:06 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:58:46 -0400
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>
>Anyone have any pros or cons they'd like to throw in regarding these choices?


My vote is for the Inland 100 watt.  I've used it continally for the past 7
or so years...when one burns out, I just get another one....and the price
is right.  I don't feel like I am throwing my money away!

Joyce
Garden of Glass

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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 21:23:16 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 00:21:35 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.202135.0>
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Eleanor - I'll be there - Barbara
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From owner-glass Mon Apr 28 22:00:18 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 00:58:47 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr28.205847.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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<< does anyone haver a Hakko? i think they make irons...  >>

I have a Hakko - the 60 watt model.  It's the only one I've ever had.  Used
some Esico's in a class.  I'm very fond of this iron.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 29 04:09:59 1997
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:09:26 -0400
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Albert and group,
	As it happens, I still have the memo. This is cut from the IGGA online
memo dated 1/1/97:

> No one  under 14  will be admitted to the trade show floor or the
> educational  sessions.  Registration  requires  specific  IDs  to
> qualify the  trade: show  resale tax  certificate and  two  other
> business IDs.  Cost to  non-members to  enter the exhibits is $25
> per person.  AGSA Members  may enter  the show free; IGGA members
> may enter  the show  at half price. For more information, contact
> AGSA Headquarters at numbers or by email.

> For information  about exhibiting  at or attending Source'97, the
> International  Art  Glass  Suppliers  Trade  Show,  contact  AGSA
> Headquarters, P.O.  Box  2188,  Zanesville,  OH  43702-2188,  fax
> 614-452-2552, tel 614-452-4541, email agsa.info@offinger.com
> 
 
--SB
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From owner-glass Tue Apr 29 04:28:26 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Trade Show in June
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:35:04 +0000
Message-ID: <199704291127.HAA02037@ns.computer.net>
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> > No one  under 14  will be admitted to the trade show floor or the
> > educational  sessions.  Registration  requires  specific  IDs  to
> > qualify the  trade: show  resale tax  certificate and  two  other
> > business IDs. 

Heh, heh. I guess I should be embarrassed that I didn't remember that 
that'd been in the online memo. <s>  I do remember, though, that 
other forms of identification showing that one is professional 
included business letterhead and business card, invoice from a 
wholesaler for more than $200, and a slew of others, any combination 
of which seemed to be acceptable. Apparently, if you have a resale 
license (free from your state francise board) and a copy of your 
letterhead, you're allowed in, which is a lower threshold than AGSA 
used to require. Oh, and they're now allowing exhibitors to actually 
sell stuff on the floor of the show, which makes it more interesting 
than it used to be, since that was at one time not allowed.

Of course, if you go to Baltimore, don't miss the chance for some 
soft-shelled crab. It's not to be buh-leeved! Yum.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
Tonetta Lake Road, Brewster NY 10509
(914) 278-2152   Fax: (914) 278-2481
_________________________________________________________
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ [home page]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm [Sources Guide]
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm [Members' Work]

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From owner-glass Tue Apr 29 05:09:25 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "[unknown]" <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons
Date: 29 Apr 97 08:06:06 EDT
Message-ID: <1997Apr29.1266.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

My personal favorite is also the Inland 100 watt.  I've had mine now for 5 years
and not a burn out or burn through or anything wrong.  The electrical cord is a
bit stiff, like Mike said, but that's a very minor thing.  I use my Inland for
copper foil work.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 30 05:34:03 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: just a test
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:35:45 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970430073545.00693d6c@busprod.com>
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Sorry folks...I'm not getting my bungi mail and I'm trying to see if it's
me or not :)

thanks for the patience...LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 30 06:56:22 1997
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From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: just a test
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:55:45 -0400 (EDT)
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LJ wrote,
>Sorry folks...I'm not getting my bungi mail and I'm trying to see if it's
>me or not :)
>
>thanks for the patience...LJ
>  ****************************************************************
I was about to do the same....got your message.

pj

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From owner-glass Wed Apr 30 07:05:35 1997
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From: kraby@pacbell.net (Kenny Raby)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: just a test
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:58:49 GMT
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Yours was the first message I've received in a long time myself so it isn't
just you.

On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:35:45 -0500, artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas) wrote:

>Sorry folks...I'm not getting my bungi mail and I'm trying to see if it's
>me or not :)
>
>thanks for the patience...LJ
>  ****************************************************************
>LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
>ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
>"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
><http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>
>
>OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
><http://www.art-with-attitude.com/rainbow.html>
>----
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>

Kenny
kraby@pacbell.net
http://www.kraby.pair.com/
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 30 07:07:03 1997
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From: artist@busprod.com (LJ Maas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: just a test
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:09:07 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970430090907.00694920@busprod.com>
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>>Sorry folks...I'm not getting my bungi mail and I'm trying to see if it's
>>me or not :)
LJ

>I was about to do the same....got your message.
>pj


pj...maybe it's been a server problem on their end...I feel better, though,
knowing I'm not rowin' the boat alone! ;) I haven't been online since about
noon yesterday. When I signed into my mail program today, I didn't receive
one bungi message...I thought that odd.
LJ
  ****************************************************************
LJ Maas: artist@busprod.com
ART WITH ATTITUDE Stained Glass Design
"Unique Stained Glass Creations"
<http://www.art-with-attitude.com/glass/artglass.html>

OVER THE RAINBOW Webpage Design & Consulting
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 30 08:56:26 1997
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From: WLester380@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: just a test
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:55:42 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr30.75542.0>
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Glad to see the other "just a test" messages. Looke like Bungi works but the
Bunginians are preoccupied with important stuff.

I just fininshed my "Long Stems" project and was pleased with the results.
 Now it is time to focus on the 3-D butterfly I mentioned some time back.  I
was thinking of doing the body as a mosaic, perhaps using styrofoam or wood
as the core.  My idea is to glue the glass to the core and finish with grout.
 I would then use small screw eyes to attach the wings.  I think the
styrofoam might be better than wood, because of the weight and the white
background.  Any suggestions for the best way to secure the glass to the
core, or any other ideas will be appreciated.

By the way, the wing span will be about 30 inches when completed.

Bill
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 30 12:09:18 1997
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From: TSEMTE96@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: terrariums
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1997Apr30.11831.0>
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thanks for info. I got it together with no problem.I wondered about
reinforning it,but I think it'll have artifical flowers in it.  TSE
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 30 14:29:37 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: just a test
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:26:39 -0400
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WLester380@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Glad to see the other "just a test" messages. Looke like Bungi works but the
> Bunginians are preoccupied with important stuff.
> 
> I just fininshed my "Long Stems" project and was pleased with the results.
>  Now it is time to focus on the 3-D butterfly I mentioned some time back.  I
> was thinking of doing the body as a mosaic, perhaps using styrofoam or wood
> as the core.  My idea is to glue the glass to the core and finish with grout.
>  I would then use small screw eyes to attach the wings.  I think the
> styrofoam might be better than wood, because of the weight and the white
> background.  Any suggestions for the best way to secure the glass to the
> core, or any other ideas will be appreciated.
> 
> By the way, the wing span will be about 30 inches when completed.
> 
> Bill
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well, styrofoam may break in the long or short run. if you choose wood,
use marine plywood, otherwise it'll warp, crack, check, etc. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - New Instructional Guides Added!!!
 - The Creative Process
 - How to Find Patterns for Suncatchers
 - Picking Out Glass in the Store

 - Plus New Photos
 - 5 New Pictures in the 3-D Catagory
 - 2 New Pictures in the Panel Catagory
 - Updated Shots of The Heart of Atlantis, and Japanese Garden

 - But That's Not All!!!
 - My Links Page is UP!
 - And Awards Page Too
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 30 15:44:53 1997
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Subject: Design Challenge
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:43:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Apr30.144333.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi pj and bungi pals-

Here's an update on our Feng Shui project which I'm sending to the whole
group since there seems to be a dearth of discussion the last few days! 
This has certainly been one of our most unusual design challenges in
stained glass.

Some of you may know what I'm talking about since it seems to be the
latest, greatest design fad.  For those of you who don't, Feng Shui
(pronounced fung shway) is a Chinese pseudo-science which deals with the
harmonious arrangement and placement of objects in an environment to
positively effect one's health, happiness, prosperity, etc.  And that's
just the tip of the iceberg - after reading a few books on the subject,
it's clear that this is a lifelong study, dealing with much more than just
interior design and even very spiritual.  Complicating the issue even
further:

- the window is a five-foot isosceles triangle

- there is no natural or artificial light source

- the design must meld log cabin walls and mega-contemporary furniture with
Art Deco art and, of course, Feng Shui principles

- we are working with an interior designer and not directly with the client
(the ultimate challenge!)

This was a situation where over-simplification helped a great deal - stick
to the basics - so we focused on the elements (fire, water, earth, and air)
as "subject".  Feng Shui principles promote the elimination of clutter,
also the flow of tranquil energy, so those concepts were incorporated into
the design.  And, really, since there's no light source this will end up
being more a glass mosaic than stained glass window. All in all, the design
is pretty cool.  We'll let you know if the designer likes it! 

I'd like to hear about anybody else's latest crazy design challenge.  How
do you feel about accomodating the latest fad?

Best regards,

Dani (and Michael)

Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 30 16:17:44 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Design Challenge
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 19:13:01 -0400
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Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi,,


Love to learn more about this project, I've (lightly) studied Feng Shui
a bit, and using it in designing a SG Panel or window would be a
challange.  (All the other objects, furniture, colors, and placements in
a room must be considered) When done a picture posted to bungi.com
,(clickable) so only those interested could look at it, would be great. 
Using the elements in a design panel,(fire, water, earth, and air)as
"subject"), as well as elemental colors.  I do some abstract pieces, as
well as triangles, pentagrams, mandelas etc.

BTW, the baby blue Jay is doing just fine, out 20 minutes every 2 hours
to learn to fly in the house.  His co-ordination is getting better, and
hasen't landed in the trash barrel once today <g>  Almost ready to go to
semi-solid food.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Michael J. Greer wrote:
> 
> Hi pj and bungi pals-
> 
> Here's an update on our Feng Shui project which I'm sending to the whole
> group since there seems to be a dearth of discussion the last few days!
<<snip<<<
> Some of you may know what I'm talking about since it seems to be the
> latest, greatest design fad. 

<<<a\snip<<<<< Complicating the issue even
> further:
> 
> - the window is a five-foot isosceles triangle
> 
> - there is no natural or artificial light source
> 
> - the design must meld log cabin walls and mega-contemporary furniture with
> Art Deco art and, of course, Feng Shui principles
> 
> - we are working with an interior designer and not directly with the client
> (the ultimate challenge!)
<<snip<<<<

Well, why not, it is an additional challenge.

> How
> do you feel about accomodating the latest fad?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani (and Michael)
> 
> Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Apr 30 20:07:45 1997
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:01:17 -0700 (PDT)
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This message is for Suzanne Albright.  I sent an e-mail and had it
returned.  Please send me your address again.  Thanks, Peggy.

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