From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 06:09:36 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 08:37:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.4371.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.14182.0>>
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Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

>...Warner Crivellaro web page That has got to be the most confusing...there is one thing I found very pleasing! Finally someone has tried to reproduce actual pictures of glass for those of us who have to mail order everything because of location...

Most all of the glass companies sell sample kits that are updated
regularly. They can be purchased through Delphi, and I would guess other
retail/mail order houses. Even though the samples are not a particular
sheet of glass, I find mine very useful for color and a general idea of
what the sheet will be like.

Hilary
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 06:55:16 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:Redware1@aol.com" <Redware1@aol.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: 01 Feb 97 09:51:00 EST
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Precedence: bulk

I saw a segment on a TV home craft show featuring the ever-present Vicki Pane
using those mosaic 2-sided cutters.  It looked like using scissors on glass.
The shapes she was cutting were intensionally unfinished, so I couldn't tell you
how true they cut to a pattern.  She was just sort of snipping off corners of
small sheets of glass in a very quick way.  Personally, I'm not going to get
them.  I'll just stick with my glass cutters and plyers.

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 06:55:17 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:Redware1@aol.com" <Redware1@aol.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: mosaics
Date: 01 Feb 97 09:50:58 EST
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Precedence: bulk

Did I say large oval mold?  Maybe I mistakenly combined two thoughts.  My table
top is a large oval, but it is not a mold.  The table top oval is a piece of cut
laminated countertop which I then glued the stained glass pieces to.  The mold I
purchased are a large circle and an 8" square.  I got them through Adventure Art
Glass in Michigan, through their wholesale catalog.  I saw the molds at a
stained glass conference in NJ this past autumn, and liked the larger sizes.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 06:55:18 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: 01 Feb 97 09:51:03 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.14513.0>
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Phil Taylor asked:
<Do I tack the top side and then flip it to tack the reverse side?  Or, because
of the size, should I do a first bead around the top side and then flip it over?
	How much flux should I use during soldering? (I use Glasflux liquid)
	How do I remove the flux?>

1) Firstly I assume you have included internal reinforcing strip inside the
piece.  Due to the size, I would do a full bead on the top side prior to
flipping.  Also, make sure you get extra hands to help you flip it.  I found
that soldering a large panel on a piece of homosote works well in helping you
flip the piece.  You tip one edge of the homosote up to verticle, rotate the
stained glass piece around, put the stained glass back against the verticle
homosote, and then lower the homosote back to horizontal.  This way the weight
of the window is evenly supported by the homosote.

2) Only flux the area to be soldered right then.  Use the same amount of flux as
you normally use.

3) Remove the flux by hand-washing the soldered area using a bucket of warm,
soapy water applied with a sponge.  Then rinse with clean warm water and towel
dry.  Like a good hand-washing of your car.

Enjoy!.....Christie

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 06:55:19 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: 01 Feb 97 09:50:52 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.145052.0>
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maruca@netaxs.com asked:
<What are you using to color your grout, Christie?>

I mix in latex paints.

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 07:08:04 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:06:43 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.15643.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


T,

When we do large panels, we always build them on a board (plywood, etc) that
is slightly larger than the finished panel.  So when we need to flip the
panel over, it's a two man operation, one to raise one side of the board
from the flat position to a vertical, the other guy stands on the opposite
side of the board and pulls the panel off (holding it on one side and
letting it hang) then turns it around and sets it back on the board, then
the board is lowered back down to the flat position.  It's kinda cumbersome,
but if you try to lift the panel from a flat position without any support,
be ready to fix the broken panes that follow.  Also, to remove solder flux,
we use a mild soap solution (such as CJ's) with a large sponge, wring it out
so it's wet but not dripping, then scub the panel.  Repeat maybe 2-3 times,
then follow scrubing with fresh water, towel dry, then wipe it down with
fresh water again, towel dry, more fresh water, then towel dry.  It should
take patinas just fine.  

Soldering issues ....... well we usually solder the panel up on the front
with a nice bead and clean as above, flip the panel over and do the backside
and clean it, then flip it back again so the front side is up and fix any
melt throughs.

Hope this helps,

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

At 05:53 AM 2/1/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi, when I get ready to foil and solder my "Large Window" I am curious 
>about the flux and soldering.  I've not done a large piece before (65" 
>long by 19" high), and am not sure about a number of soldering issues.
>	Do I tack the top side and then flip it to tack the reverse 
>side?  Or, because of the size, should I do a first bead around the top 
>side and then flip it over?
>	How much flux should I use during soldering? (I use Glasflux 
>liquid)
>	How do I remove the flux?
>	Would appreciate any help and comments.  Thanks, T. in Montana
>----
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>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 08:01:56 1997
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From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 08:00:37 PST
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Hi everyone,

I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
more of this?


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 08:19:26 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 10:17:28 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702011617.KAA01474@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Good point Hilary, Anyone serious about S.G.should have sample sets at least
from the mfg'ers that they are most likely to buy from. A  photographic or
computer rendering is no substitute for the real thing, not only for color
but also for texture, degree of light transmission, and relative values to
other glasses that might be used in a project. I have even test scored some
samples to help me determine how much I should order based on anticipated
difficulty with the cutting. In addition, the more you look through the
samples, the images of the different glasses are retained in your *minds
eye*? and design and glass selection intergration for projects tends to
become more efficient and creative. Just my 0.02 worth

Len


>Most all of the glass companies sell sample kits that are updated
>regularly. They can be purchased through Delphi, and I would guess other
>retail/mail order houses. Even though the samples are not a particular
>sheet of glass, I find mine very useful for color and a general idea of
>what the sheet will be like.
>
>Hilary

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 08:50:47 1997
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From: pphilb@tc3net.com (Peggy  Philbrook)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:43:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.6434.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.15643.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'm still a novice, but have made two windows.  I made two pieces of
composite board larger than window.  I nailed a yard stick down
two butted sides on each one (forms a right angle).  Then, when I was
ready to flip I set the other one on top (with the two yard sticks 
opposite those on the working board), and flipped it over.  I was 
nervous, but it worked well.  I didn't know about the scrubbing as you
go process, so I carried it down like a sandwich, set it in the
tub and cleaned it using the shower hose.  Good luck.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 08:56:44 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:51:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.65155.0>
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Hi Glenna-
Try this product from your local Office Supply store (like Office
Depot).  It is 8 1/2 by 11" sheets of "Adhesive-Backed Full Sheets" 
Avery product # 5455.  They are transparent enough to put on a pattern
over a light box, trace your pattern on, then cut out your individual
pieces.  I use it if I need a particular hard to place design.  Most of
the time I just cut "English Method"  = put pattern on light box, put
glass over pattern, trace, or cut pieces in place.  Saves the pattern
cut out step entirely.  I works very well for me.  But to those used to
cutting out pieces of pattern, then pasting them to glass for cutting,
this Avery product would do the trick.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations



>Glenna Rand wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
> was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
> teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
> your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
> And then cut your glass.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 09:46:24 1997
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From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:45:03 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970201124618.2e3702a8@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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At 06:59 PM 1/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
>storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
>a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
>misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?  
                        >Debi in Gunnison


Hi Debi and Everyone,
        I am just beginning the process of putting together a workshop.
Started out with a long table just as you have done.  Added a discarded
microwave stand that has a cutting board surface at waist level and an
overhead "box" (to hold the mike).  I use this to solder.  I placed an up
side down ceiling tile (cut to size) over the cutting board and store glass
and  supplies overhead, and below. 
                         I also store glass in banana boxes.  They are
sturdy cardboard with fitted lids and hand grip openings in the box for easy
carrying.  Produce distributors use several different types of materials to
put between layers of fruit, sized sheets of thin sponge "rubber", plastic
bubble sheets, "quilted" paper and lightweight cardboard.  These work
terrific or storing several layers of glass.
                        I use 2.5 gal plastic pails with lids (used for
packaged pre cut fruits in liquid) for glass scrap during cutting.  Good for
collecting all types of broken glass around the house as well as spent light
bulbs.  When the pail gets about half full, I put the lid on it, label it "G
L A S S" and dispose of it.  BTW, the lids are designed with a ridge on top
so that with the lid in place the pails can be stacked safely.
                        For larger pieces of scrap that may be used in other
projects, I store them in "fish boxes".... These are plastic boxes with lids
(12" X 15" X 4") used by wholesale seafood distributors to deliver fresh
fish to food service establishments.  They can be easily cleaned out with
soap and water and a little chlorine solution, (.25 cup in 2 qts of water)
if you want to be sure that you will not get any residual "fishy smell"
                         You can obtain these type of boxes and supplies
free from Produce Markets, Restaurants or, if you have a local college or
university nearby, visit their Dining Halls.  Speak with the manager, unless
they have a deal with returning them to the distributors to recycle, they
may give them to you gladly..... We do, here at Cornell Dining.
                        Another thing that I do with glass is:  when I cut a
new piece of glass I make a 2" X 3" sample piece and write the mfg and stock
# on it, if I have it, of course, and include it in my growing sample
collection.  When I am planning new projects, I use the samples to help
select colors,  etc.
                        

                        
At 06:59 PM 1/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
>storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
>a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
>misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?  
>
>Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all the
>help I can get.
>
>Thanks all.
>
>Debi in Gunnison
>----
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>
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life, Cornell University
255-5960

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 10:00:51 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:59:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.75923.0>
References: <<m0vqhrq-0000x4C@daver.bungi.com>>
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Precedence: bulk



On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Glenna Rand wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
> was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
> teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
> your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
> And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
> and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
> more of this?
> 
No sources for that paper, but a suggestion: there is a gluestick
available that turns any paper into a post-it (removable) page. It works
verey well on glass and is available at any office supply store.


Mary


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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 10:53:07 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 13:47:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.84719.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.14182.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Harold De Vos wrote:
> 
> RE: Warner Crivellaro web page
> That has got to be the most confusing / worst looking page on the web! Yet,
> there is one thing I found very pleasing! Finally someone has tried to
> reproduce actual pictures of glass for those of us who have to mail order
> everything because of location.  I don't know how accurate these will be,
> but I have been looking for something like this for years! >> some
> indication besides those nondescript words like wispy amber which can be
> anything from a yellowish white to almost a chocolate brown and no
> indication as to density! I suggested this one time on a bulletin board, but
> three mail order companies said there was no way to reproduce the colors
> well enough,  either in print or via a graphic file. One fella tried to
> start a library of glass on a bulletin board on Compuserve, but after
> downloading his photos which took nearly a half hour, all I found were
> pictures of simple clear glass in simple primary colors!  I mean, why
> bother? That was almost 2 years ago tho', perhaps it has mushroomed into
> something better. Has anybody seen such a library out there?
> Harold De Vos
> Redware1@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I also had trouble at this new glass site.  The frames were annoying! When I
> > looked at the specials for Feb. the information was not all within the frame.
> >  I had to scroll left and right to read all the specials.  I thought by
> > printing it out that I would be able to read it better.  Even when it was
> > printed, some sections were cut off. Many sites have adjustable frames or a
> > "no frame" option to solve this problem.
> >
> > Diane
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well i know spectrum has thier glass online. though i really don't see
the problem, once you figure out how to scan the glass, all they have to
do is to bring it into photoshop and match the colors that way. 

i do agree, that site still needs more work, these are the things i like
to see changed:

1. too many frames with too many graphics.
2. get rid of that annoying scrolling text at the bottom of the screen,
some people think this a great thing and refuse to remove it, but
believe me it's very irritating.
3. i do like that they have pictures of their stuff, but it's very
cluttered, and hard to find things.
4. i did'nt notice if there was a place to order a catalog, not even the
tiny little one...

i did'nt look at the site a real long time, too slow...but at least it's
a step in the right direction, all catalogs should be online, so you can
at least check out what they got.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 10:59:26 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 13:53:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.85341.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.155337.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Phil Taylor wrote:
> 
> Hi, when I get ready to foil and solder my "Large Window" I am curious
> about the flux and soldering.  I've not done a large piece before (65"
> long by 19" high), and am not sure about a number of soldering issues.
>         Do I tack the top side and then flip it to tack the reverse
> side?  Or, because of the size, should I do a first bead around the top
> side and then flip it over?
>         How much flux should I use during soldering? (I use Glasflux
> liquid)
>         How do I remove the flux?
>         Would appreciate any help and comments.  Thanks, T. in Montana
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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well, i would first fill in all the lines with 50-50, then do my bead
work. use the same amount of flux you would for anything else, only
concentrate on like a square foot at a time. i use denatured alcohol to
do a general flux removal. after the entire front side is done, it will
have to be cleaned, try a bit of soap, and a bucket of water, unless you
can bring it outside and hose it off (if it's warm). you may also want
to patina at this step as well, so you don't have to flip it as much.
once clean then do the other side. 

to flip it easier you need (if you hav'nt already), to make a board with
a sraight edge on it. this board goes under the panel. then you get
another sheet a wood and put it on top, to form a sandwich, then with a
friend, slowly flip the sandwich over to reveal the back. resting it on
the boards prevents the panel from flexing.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 11:04:50 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 13:58:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.85831.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.14510.0>>
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Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote:
> 
> I saw a segment on a TV home craft show featuring the ever-present Vicki Pane
> using those mosaic 2-sided cutters.  It looked like using scissors on glass.
> The shapes she was cutting were intensionally unfinished, so I couldn't tell you
> how true they cut to a pattern.  She was just sort of snipping off corners of
> small sheets of glass in a very quick way.  Personally, I'm not going to get
> them.  I'll just stick with my glass cutters and plyers.
> 
> ----
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i personally might get them. i saw her use them on some other craft
shop, it made rather random cuts. however if you plan to make a bunch of
bite sized pieces of glass it may be a good thing. like when i did my
lamp, the tiny yellow border pieces in the base, i quickly snaped them
out using a high quality tile nippers. it save quite a bit of time this
way.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 11:08:05 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 14:01:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.9141.0>
References: <<m0vqhrq-0000x4C@daver.bungi.com>>
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Glenna Rand wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
> was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
> teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
> your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
> And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
> and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
> more of this?
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i think i know what your talking about, it sounds like a magic sticker,
kind of a vinyl texture, and sticks to the glass. then you can easily
pull it off, and it would also be water proof. i don't know where they
sell it in sheets though, maybe a craft store. ask 'em there might be
another use for the stuff and it maybe selling as another product.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 11:18:01 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:23:49 +0000
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> well i know spectrum has thier glass online. though i really don't see
> the problem, once you figure out how to scan the glass, all they have to
> do is to bring it into photoshop and match the colors that way. 

The problem is, that even with the vaunted Photoshop, everything's an 
approximation. If you, Mike, and I were standing side by side, both 
looking at an identical piece of glass, we might differ on what its 
exact color would be called; is it greenish-blue or bluish-green? Is 
it aqua with white striping or teal with ivory striping? Once you 
photograph it, the film you use affects its colors, as do the 
camera's settings; when you scan the photo and call it into 
Photoshop, how do you decide which brightness level, hue setting or 
intensity of color saturation is "correct"?

Naturally, you would do all of those things according to your 
judgement, taste, and perception. So would I. But we might disagree 
on which result was most like the original piece of glass, since 
every step along the way is merely an approximation of the previous 
step ... and none of them would look like the actual glass itself.

That's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to 
represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as 
possible, whether in print or on the web.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 11:32:26 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 14:26:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.92640.0>
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > well i know spectrum has thier glass online. though i really don't see
> > the problem, once you figure out how to scan the glass, all they have to
> > do is to bring it into photoshop and match the colors that way.
> 
> The problem is, that even with the vaunted Photoshop, everything's an
> approximation. If you, Mike, and I were standing side by side, both
> looking at an identical piece of glass, we might differ on what its
> exact color would be called; is it greenish-blue or bluish-green? Is
> it aqua with white striping or teal with ivory striping? Once you
> photograph it, the film you use affects its colors, as do the
> camera's settings; when you scan the photo and call it into
> Photoshop, how do you decide which brightness level, hue setting or
> intensity of color saturation is "correct"?
> 
> Naturally, you would do all of those things according to your
> judgement, taste, and perception. So would I. But we might disagree
> on which result was most like the original piece of glass, since
> every step along the way is merely an approximation of the previous
> step ... and none of them would look like the actual glass itself.
> 
> That's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to
> represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as
> possible, whether in print or on the web.
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


though if you have the glass, you may be able to match up the color
fairly well, though one of the biggest problems is everybodies viedo
system is diffenrent, giving it a very different look. if anything
though after someone scans a picture they can at least (if they have to
right equipment that it), get rid of the whitish haze that occurs to a
photo after it's been scanned in...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 11:41:54 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 14:43:22 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970201143245.0068f70c@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I've used ordinary adhesive shelving paper, but obviously I didn't trace
the pattern onto it at once, rather I cut it piece by piece. I find it
easier to simply apply a little glue to the ordinary paper pattern I've
drawn and stick that on my glass to cut.

MJ


At 08:00 AM 2/1/97 PST, you wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
>was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
>teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
>your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
>And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
>and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
>more of this?
>
>
>-- 
>Glenna Rand
>gjr@bungi.com
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 12:52:48 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:51:45 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702012051.OAA09914@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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>That's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to 
>represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as 
>possible, whether in print or on the web.
>
>Albert

Hi Albert,

I can only imagine how difficult it must be. Although only an amatuer with
decent equipement,for me photographing completed, installed works has always
been the least satisfying aspect of the overall project effort.

Len

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 13:31:48 1997
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From: "J. Hendershott" <jhendershott@macnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 13:38:38 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.53838.0>
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Glenna,

I think what you are looking for is called vasson (sp) paper. It comes
in 2'X3' sheets and holds up well when grinding. I get it from Cline
Glass in Portland, OR. Unfortunatly, I can't find my Cline's catalog
right now but they are listed in the "Source Guide", that Albert posted.
In a pinch, I also use white contact paper, but you have to be careful
not to strech it since it is vinyl.

Janie

> I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
> was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
> teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
> your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
> And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
> and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
> more of this?
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 14:02:07 1997
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From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: irc chat info
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:43:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.84343.0>
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Can anyone pull up the info for the irc chat line.  I've got it running 
and can't remember where the glass people are.

Thanks

Phil7

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 14:12:48 1997
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From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: patterns
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:54:29 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.85429.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I've got a gripe.
I happen to like making panel lampshades. Many designs are of my own mind 
and hand.  But, I have paid for several (many really) books of various 
designs.  I find the author lacks in checking the integrity(spelling) of 
his/her workmanship.  In other words, the patterns are poorly drawn.  
Take for instance the last shade I made.  It looked good, but take two 
copies and lay face to face and it's off by 3/16 of an inch. Put that on 
a panel lamp and it looks bad, real bad.

Granted the author did all the design work. Much time and energy went 
into it, and for 8.95 it's not a steep price.  There isn't much of the 
written word in any of these pattern books, perhaps the buying public is 
too much the trusting soul. 

Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.

Phil7

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 14:24:13 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 17:18:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.121829.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.85429.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

Philip McRae wrote:
> 
> I've got a gripe.
> I happen to like making panel lampshades. Many designs are of my own mind
> and hand.  But, I have paid for several (many really) books of various
> designs.  I find the author lacks in checking the integrity(spelling) of
> his/her workmanship.  In other words, the patterns are poorly drawn.
> Take for instance the last shade I made.  It looked good, but take two
> copies and lay face to face and it's off by 3/16 of an inch. Put that on
> a panel lamp and it looks bad, real bad.
> 
> Granted the author did all the design work. Much time and energy went
> into it, and for 8.95 it's not a steep price.  There isn't much of the
> written word in any of these pattern books, perhaps the buying public is
> too much the trusting soul.
> 
> Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.
> 
> Phil7
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


just so we know to avoid the book, who wrote it?

whenever i buy a book i always see if there are pictures of all the
projects, this let's me see what color scheme they were thinking. also
it tells me that it went together ok, that it was tested.

some people are only good or sort of good, at designing, but they may
not even know how to do stained glass. like good 'ol ed sibbet jr., he
does alot of designs, most of them ugly, and he does'nt even do stained
glass, which of course explains alot.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 14:31:33 1997
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From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 22:32:29 GMT
Message-ID: <199702012232.WAA19635@email6.starnetinc.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 02:23 PM 2/1/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> well i know spectrum has thier glass online. though i really don't see
>> the problem, once you figure out how to scan the glass, all they have to
>> do is to bring it into photoshop and match the colors that way. 
>
>The problem is, that even with the vaunted Photoshop, everything's an 
>approximation. If you, Mike, and I were standing side by side, both 
>looking at an identical piece of glass, we might differ on what its 
>exact color would be called;

*I* still believe that the only way to buy 'most' glass is to be able to see
it... I use black alot... not alot of variation there except in texture; but
for a background glass  - I gotta see it.

Paula Nelson
pjnjril@ngai.com

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 15:00:46 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:06:23 +0000
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> photographing completed, installed works has always
> been the least satisfying aspect of the overall project effort.

It's certainly a whole 'nuther art form, Len.

Albert

 
Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 15:23:16 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Where can one find LDPE?
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 18:24:46 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970201181740.00697340@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know where one can find clear LDPE -- Low Density PolyEthylene
film? I've read it's good for use in a glass mosaic application, but I have
no clue as to where to begin looking for it.

Thanks.

M.-J. Taylor

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 16:29:37 1997
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From: eldondo1@juno.com (Don A DeVoto)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: pattern paper
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 19:27:46 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.02746.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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We at St. Louis Stained Glass Studio use mylar it is not adhesive but we
put the pattern on with U-Stick,just a paste that comes in a lipstick
type container. The  one thing we do when possible is let the glued or
rather pasted patterns sit overnight as they will have a tendency to move
when first applied when you grind. Mylar is cheaper than any adhesive
paper clear to trace your pattern and when cut with foil shears and
ground to the edge you have a perfect fit (when you are working with a
white or light glass rub the edge of the paper with a pencil)  This will
help your not under cutting...              Good luck ,Don 
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 17:23:06 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 01:41:24 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

Hi Len (A) , Hilary and All,
Couldn't agree more...
There is something about carrying a colour with you in your"mind's 
eye" that no computer reproduction can ever replace. Getting one or 
several sample sets of glass may be cumbersome, but is worth it in 
the long run. Not only that, I often have to search/rummage at 
several suppliers for just THE right colour combination to go with 
another colour I have in mind. My pockets & bags are usually stuffed with 
glass samples I carry around with me for this eventuality - it's 
easier than carrying my computer around....
I can hold a REAL glass sample up into the light for comparisons. 
Doing the same with the computer gets kinda difficult and might be 
construed as a "threat""......
Then, as Len so rightly points out, there is the question "how will 
it score?"
But maybe I'm old -fashioned.....   :-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Len Wrote:
Good point Hilary, Anyone serious about S.G.should have sample sets at least
from the mfg'ers that they are most likely to buy from. A  photographic or
computer rendering is no substitute for the real thing, not only for color
but also for texture, degree of light transmission, and relative values to
other glasses that might be used in a project. I have even test scored some
samples to help me determine how much I should order based on anticipated
difficulty with the cutting. In addition, the more you look through the
samples, the images of the different glasses are retained in your *minds
eye*? and design and glass selection intergration for projects tends to
become more efficient and creative. Just my 0.02 worth

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 17:23:08 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 01:41:24 +0000
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Len,
Good Heavens, you just spoke the lament of my soul..... However hard 
I try, only too often do my photographs screw up. I have spoken to 
more professional photographers than I have had hot dinners. All of 
them agree just how fiendeshly difficult stained glass is to 
photograph. Landscape photos, animals in motion, animals still, 
human portraits - no problem. Some of them are even quite "accomplished".  
Get me in front of a stained glass (especially my own) and everything 
goes wrong....
I have a 15 year old Pentax ME Super, with 3 different lenses, 
filters and what have you.  If I pushed the camera, it might even 
make the tea.....The film I tend to use regularly is Kodak 100, 200 
or 400. The colour definitions just come out wrong.....
For instance, in my latest addition to my WEB-page (St.Francis 
Church) , the grapes in the 
basket are supposed to be champagne coloured (by the way - they were 
"fun" to cut and lead!!). They came out sort of non-descript....
Len, my heart is with you. I am obviously not alone (sob).
Any ideas folks??? What am I doing wrong???
Elisabeth 'n Toby (the latter looking splendiferous in HIS photo on 
the WEB :-(    )

Len wrote:
 with
decent equipement,for me photographing completed, installed works has always
been the least satisfying aspect of the overall project effort.


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 17:23:08 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 01:41:24 +0000
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Hi Philip,
Sorry,  couldn't resist your posting..... It's an old gripe of mine 
too..... (well documented too!)
The "Author" / "Artist" didn't happen to be called Ed Sibbett Jr, 
by any chance????  Double the price, and then add some and that's the 
price we pay in UK for what you describe......
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Phil wrote:
I've got a gripe.
I happen to like making panel lampshades. Many designs are of my own mind 
and hand.  But, I have paid for several (many really) books of various 
designs.  I find the author lacks in checking the integrity(spelling) of 
his/her workmanship.  In other words, the patterns are poorly drawn.  
Take for instance the last shade I made.  It looked good, but take two 
copies and lay face to face and it's off by 3/16 of an inch. Put that on 
a panel lamp and it looks bad, real bad.

Granted the author did all the design work. Much time and energy went 
into it, and for 8.95 it's not a steep price.  There isn't much of the 
written word in any of these pattern books, perhaps the buying public is 
too much the trusting soul. 

Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 18:26:12 1997
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From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Pattern Paper - Thanks!
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:25:32 PST
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Thanks to all of you for your tips and suggestions.


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 19:44:32 1997
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From: "Loveta Elmore" <loveta@arn.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 21:42:53 -0600
Message-ID: <199702020342.VAA10076@arnet.arn.net>
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Philip

What did you use to make your copies with?  Copy machine or by hand?

----------
> From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: patterns
> Date: Saturday, February 01, 1997 6:54 PM
> 
> I've got a gripe.
> I happen to like making panel lampshades. Many designs are of my own mind

> and hand.  But, I have paid for several (many really) books of various 
> designs.  I find the author lacks in checking the integrity(spelling) of 
> his/her workmanship.  In other words, the patterns are poorly drawn.  
> Take for instance the last shade I made.  It looked good, but take two 
> copies and lay face to face and it's off by 3/16 of an inch. Put that on 
> a panel lamp and it looks bad, real bad.
> 
> Granted the author did all the design work. Much time and energy went 
> into it, and for 8.95 it's not a steep price.  There isn't much of the 
> written word in any of these pattern books, perhaps the buying public is 
> too much the trusting soul. 
> 
> Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.
> 
> Phil7
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 20:03:32 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 22:55:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.175556.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.92640.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have contributed to this this list and rec.crafts.glass at times, but
I lurk more than contribute.
I add to the discourse, when I think I can add something, and will defer
to someone who seems to be better informed than I. I don't spend enough
time doing glass, as I unfortunately have too many hobbies and
interests. I brew my own beer, restore cars, have family who like to see
me in daylight, and a day job that takes away from my hobby time. But
,IMHO, there are some subjects I put my $0.02 in. One is glass
selection. I don't do as much work as Mike Savad and others who grace
this forum, but what I do, since I don't do volume, is very important to
me. I am not saying that anybody else's work is not as important, (I'm
not gunshy of flame wars, am I?), but glass selection is a major step to
me, because I basically do 'keeper' projects, or gifts. When I started
my first Tiffany style lamp, I spent a large part of a Saturday
afternoon selecting glass. If I am doing a window, or panel that
sunlight will show through, I will go to my local studio on a fairly
bright day, and take the sheets to the front of the shop, wher the
natural light shines, and hold the glass up and look through it, as
incandescent light has different properties than the sun. On the other
hand, if doing a lamp, I will use a bulb of similar wattage as the
fixture will hold, to mimic what the lamp will look like when done and
lit. I will hold sheets of colors that will be ajacent, or complement
each other to the light together, so I don't get something that clashes.
I am doing a Daffodil Tiffany Odessey lamp, and spent a half hour over
two sheets of yellow and white ring mottled, deciding which sheet would
work better for the bell ends of the trumpets.
All well and good, but what if I live a gazillion miles from the nearest
studio? If you are plan on doing a lot of projects, most glass companies
sell 'sampler packs' that will give you a better feel of what may not be
too descriptive a style, a la 'wispy'. This is not as good to me, as
there are variations among/within batches of glass, but it's better than
ordering blind. If you do seasonal suncatchers, red and white for Santa
Claus is not so critical. If I'm going to look at a window for a
significant portion of my life, I don't want to be second guessing my
glass choice. Some projects, it's not critcal, but for some glass choice
can 'make' the difference between, 'gee that's nice' and 'OH WOW'. I am
finishing a window panel that used $200 in glass and lead alone. This is
for my best friends anniversary. 

Is there a point to this rambling, you say? Yes, and the message is
Support your local shop. I learned in a small studio, and it is still
the first place I go. No I'm not a purist (a large discount on solder is
a large discount on solder). If I can't get what I need, I will shop
elsewhere, at one of his competitors, or mail order. He knows this. I'm
not knocking the people who run a business, and add a lot to this forum,
but your local shop is the one you probably go to when you've broken the
last piece of that color, or your iron tip burns out in the final
beading of a panel due to be picked up tomorrow. I see the same issues
in rec.crafts.brewing - who's got the best price on grain? But where do
you run when fermantation is stuck and you have $35 in specialty grain
sitting in a fermenter not looking like beer? If you don't support your
local shops, they may not be there when you need them. Buy mail order
when you use volume, but Support your local businesses.
Standard diclaimer - I am not an employee, nor spokesman, and opinions
expessed are mine, and apologies if I've offended
anyone                   
<Major snip below>
> > The problem is, that even with the vaunted Photoshop, everything's an
> > approximation. If you, Mike, and I were standing side by side, both
> > looking at an identical piece of glass, we might differ on what its
> > exact color would be called; is it greenish-blue or bluish-green? Is
> > it aqua with white striping or teal with ivory striping? Once you
> > photograph it, the film you use affects its colors, as do the
> > camera's settings; when you scan the photo and call it into
> > Photoshop, how do you decide which brightness level, hue setting or
> > intensity of color saturation is "correct"?
> >
> > Naturally, you would do all of those things according to your
> > judgement, taste, and perception. So would I. But we might disagree
> > on which result was most like the original piece of glass, since
> > every step along the way is merely an approximation of the previous
> > step ... and none of them would look like the actual glass itself.
> >
> > That's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to
> > represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as
> > possible, whether in print or on the web.
> >
> > Albert
> >
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 20:15:10 1997
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X-Path: arn.net!loveta
From: "Loveta Elmore" <loveta@arn.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Photographing stained glass
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 21:51:20 -0600
Message-ID: <199702020351.VAA10897@arnet.arn.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

When taking pictures remember this tip,  never take pictures directly in to
sun.  In the morning take pictures in the west.  Never use a flash.  Try
it, you will be amazed at your results.  trying to get a person in the
photo adds unsolvable problems unless you are an expert photographer.

----------
> From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
> Date: Saturday, February 01, 1997 7:41 PM
> 
> Len,
> Good Heavens, you just spoke the lament of my soul..... However hard 
> I try, only too often do my photographs screw up. I have spoken to 
> more professional photographers than I have had hot dinners. All of 
> them agree just how fiendeshly difficult stained glass is to 
> photograph. Landscape photos, animals in motion, animals still, 
> human portraits - no problem. Some of them are even quite "accomplished".
 
> Get me in front of a stained glass (especially my own) and everything 
> goes wrong....
> I have a 15 year old Pentax ME Super, with 3 different lenses, 
> filters and what have you.  If I pushed the camera, it might even 
> make the tea.....The film I tend to use regularly is Kodak 100, 200 
> or 400. The colour definitions just come out wrong.....
> For instance, in my latest addition to my WEB-page (St.Francis 
> Church) , the grapes in the 
> basket are supposed to be champagne coloured (by the way - they were 
> "fun" to cut and lead!!). They came out sort of non-descript....
> Len, my heart is with you. I am obviously not alone (sob).
> Any ideas folks??? What am I doing wrong???
> Elisabeth 'n Toby (the latter looking splendiferous in HIS photo on 
> the WEB :-(    )
> 
> Len wrote:
>  with
> decent equipement,for me photographing completed, installed works has
always
> been the least satisfying aspect of the overall project effort.
> 
> 
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 20:36:36 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 20:56:49 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.135649.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.14513.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hi Christie and George,
	Thanks for all the good tips on soldering, flux removal and 
turning the piece over.  To respond to one of your comments, yes, I am 
putting reinforcement in the piece.
	But, I am not familiar with homosote.  What is it?

Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote:

   I found
> that soldering a large panel on a piece of homosote works well in helping you
> flip the piece.  You tip one edge of the homosote up to verticle, rotate the
> stained glass piece around, put the stained glass back against the verticle
> homosote, and then lower the homosote back to horizontal.  This way the weight
> of the window is evenly supported by the homosote.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 20:46:56 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 21:07:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.1477.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.85341.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi Mike,
	Thanks for the excellent suggestions.  Will do the "sandwich" 
bit, it sounds safe.  T. in Montana
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 20:52:49 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 21:13:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.14131.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.15643.0>>
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Hi Mike,
	Thanks for the tips.  When I get to the soldering stage, I may 
be spending as much time on here as I am in the studio.  I appreciate 
your help.  T. in Montana
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 21:35:17 1997
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From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 00:16:52 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.161652.0>
References: <<199702020342.VAA10076@arnet.arn.net>>
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Loveta Elmore wrote:
> 
> Philip
> 
> What did you use to make your copies with?  Copy machine or by hand?
> I photocopied on a canon copier, and then hand copied. both worked out 
the same.  I've checked several patterns from the same book(hardly that) 
and most work just fine.  This one book was printed in 84' and must have 
been reprinted many, many times. I opened the bulk package at the store, 
so it's a late edition. Am I the first, or only the latest to complain?

phil7

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  1 23:09:05 1997
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From: Bubstah@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Subject: Small cartoons for stained glass
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 02:08:53 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb1.21853.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Where can I find a book of small cartoons to make stained glass sun catchers,

potpourri holders etc. for making and selling at craft fairs.
Thanking you all in  advance.
Bubstah
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 03:47:19 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Small cartoons for stained glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 06:53:01 +0000
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> Where can I find a book of small cartoons to make stained glass sun catchers,

Go to Inland's web site at  http://www.thestorefinder.com and click 
on the storefinder, then on your state. A list of stores in your area 
will appear ... most of them will carry the kind of books you're 
looking for.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 05:49:21 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: 02 Feb 97 08:46:06 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.13466.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

<The film I tend to use regularly is Kodak 100, 200 or 400. The colour
definitions just come out wrong.>

At the advice of a photographer friend of mine, I use Kodak 64T (that's for
Tungsten lights).  This is professional-level film which must be refridgerated
until used.  The slow speed give excellent detail so that even the most strange
and wonderful glass texture comes through true.  At his suggestion I do a
combination of back and front lighting in a studio setup.  I use multiple
spotlights, but angle them so a light glare is not visible.  My slides have
improved dramatically with this setup and the change in film.  Also at his
suggestion, I keep careful photography logs when trying a new setting.  I always
bracket anything photographed.  F-stop of 5.6 works best for both backlight and
combination back and front light.

For outdoor shots I use Fuji 100 outdoors film.  I try to photograph on an
overcast day, to give more even light.

Always use a tripod and remote shutter release mechanism to eliminate vibrations
when photographing.

Good luck...Christie

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 05:49:48 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: 02 Feb 97 08:46:14 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.134614.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Homosote is a compressed paper product sold in most home remodelling stores like
Home Depot.  It is sold in sheets similar to plywood.  Major difference is it is
easier to push holding pens into than plywood or corkboard.  My work is mostly
copper foil, and I use push pens and the Worton straight framing products which
use push pens, so I like the ease of the homosote.

...Christie

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 05:53:12 1997
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From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 13:54:16 GMT
Message-ID: <199702021354.NAA28927@email6.starnetinc.com>
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At 08:56 PM 2/1/97 -0700, you wrote:
>But, I am not familiar with homosote.  What is it?

Ceiling tile <G>. Go to your local large hardware store and pick up a sheet
(usually 24x48inches), price runs about $2.50+/- @... cut it larger than the
size of the project and VERY easy to use pushpins and morton strips - or
your own support system. They are not hardy beasties - but I've used one for
several 20x24 projects with very little disintegration...


Paula Nelson
pjnjril@ngai.com


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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 05:58:33 1997
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From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 13:59:33 GMT
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Some how the first sentence fell off this when I sent it...

Homosote is plywood, I have several of different sizes. But there's
something else that you could look into. Ceiling tile <G>. Go to your local
large hardware store and pick up a sheet (usually 24x48inches), price runs
about $2.50+/- @... cut it larger than the size of the project and VERY easy
to use pushpins and morton strips - or your own support system. They are not
hardy beasties - but I've used one for several 20x24 projects with very
little disintegration...

>But, I am not familiar with homosote.  What is it?


Paula
____________________________________________________________

Paula Nelson                  
pjnjril@ngai.com
http://pwp.starnetinc.com/pjnjril/uitland.htm
(708) 399-6791 VoiceMail Pager

"Life is too short to work weak dogs"
____________________________________________________________
"No slack - but that doesn't make us bad people" SCPCC 13-96

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 06:41:21 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 09:35:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.43526.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.175556.0>>
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shyguy wrote:
> 
> I have contributed to this this list and rec.crafts.glass at times, but
> I lurk more than contribute.
> I add to the discourse, when I think I can add something, and will defer
> to someone who seems to be better informed than I. I don't spend enough
> time doing glass, as I unfortunately have too many hobbies and
> interests. I brew my own beer, restore cars, have family who like to see
> me in daylight, and a day job that takes away from my hobby time. But
> ,IMHO, there are some subjects I put my $0.02 in. One is glass
> selection. I don't do as much work as Mike Savad and others who grace
> this forum, but what I do, since I don't do volume, is very important to
> me. I am not saying that anybody else's work is not as important, (I'm
> not gunshy of flame wars, am I?), but glass selection is a major step to
> me, because I basically do 'keeper' projects, or gifts. When I started
> my first Tiffany style lamp, I spent a large part of a Saturday
> afternoon selecting glass. If I am doing a window, or panel that
> sunlight will show through, I will go to my local studio on a fairly
> bright day, and take the sheets to the front of the shop, wher the
> natural light shines, and hold the glass up and look through it, as
> incandescent light has different properties than the sun. On the other
> hand, if doing a lamp, I will use a bulb of similar wattage as the
> fixture will hold, to mimic what the lamp will look like when done and
> lit. I will hold sheets of colors that will be ajacent, or complement
> each other to the light together, so I don't get something that clashes.
> I am doing a Daffodil Tiffany Odessey lamp, and spent a half hour over
> two sheets of yellow and white ring mottled, deciding which sheet would
> work better for the bell ends of the trumpets.
> All well and good, but what if I live a gazillion miles from the nearest
> studio? If you are plan on doing a lot of projects, most glass companies
> sell 'sampler packs' that will give you a better feel of what may not be
> too descriptive a style, a la 'wispy'. This is not as good to me, as
> there are variations among/within batches of glass, but it's better than
> ordering blind. If you do seasonal suncatchers, red and white for Santa
> Claus is not so critical. If I'm going to look at a window for a
> significant portion of my life, I don't want to be second guessing my
> glass choice. Some projects, it's not critcal, but for some glass choice
> can 'make' the difference between, 'gee that's nice' and 'OH WOW'. I am
> finishing a window panel that used $200 in glass and lead alone. This is
> for my best friends anniversary.
> 
> Is there a point to this rambling, you say? Yes, and the message is
> Support your local shop. I learned in a small studio, and it is still
> the first place I go. No I'm not a purist (a large discount on solder is
> a large discount on solder). If I can't get what I need, I will shop
> elsewhere, at one of his competitors, or mail order. He knows this. I'm
> not knocking the people who run a business, and add a lot to this forum,
> but your local shop is the one you probably go to when you've broken the
> last piece of that color, or your iron tip burns out in the final
> beading of a panel due to be picked up tomorrow. I see the same issues
> in rec.crafts.brewing - who's got the best price on grain? But where do
> you run when fermantation is stuck and you have $35 in specialty grain
> sitting in a fermenter not looking like beer? If you don't support your
> local shops, they may not be there when you need them. Buy mail order
> when you use volume, but Support your local businesses.
> Standard diclaimer - I am not an employee, nor spokesman, and opinions
> expessed are mine, and apologies if I've offended
> anyone
> <Major snip below>


well generally that's how it's done. the photo's online are, of course,
a basic representaion of whats out there. i personally like chooing my
own glass at my local store. evern though alot of companies will send
out a nice selection, i really only trust my own eye. 

choosing colors is really the most important part of stained glass, it
seperates proffesionals from novices. for the balloon panel of mine it
must of took over 30 hours (all together), to pick just the right
colors. and if i were to do the whole panel again, i'd choose different
colors, (for the grassy areas anyway). 

it's not just the colors but the shades, and how you use them. you can
always tell a professional (let's say lamp), piece from one you buy in
a  hardware or lamp store by seeing how the shades were done. if you
looked at a flower, every single piece should have it's own character or
place. it should have a look of dimension, the darker piece should be on
one side, the lighter on the other. every piece should be looked at as
if it was the center of attention. so the next time anyone looks at a
lamp, or asks how the colors got where they are, you could tell them it
was'nt by accident.  btw this last paragraph was'nt aimed for anyone,
it's just for pleasant reading...or something like that...


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 06:42:32 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 09:36:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.43644.0>
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Phil Taylor wrote:
> 
> Hi Christie and George,
>         Thanks for all the good tips on soldering, flux removal and
> turning the piece over.  To respond to one of your comments, yes, I am
> putting reinforcement in the piece.
>         But, I am not familiar with homosote.  What is it?
> 
> Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote:
> 
>    I found
> > that soldering a large panel on a piece of homosote works well in helping you
> > flip the piece.  You tip one edge of the homosote up to verticle, rotate the
> > stained glass piece around, put the stained glass back against the verticle
> > homosote, and then lower the homosote back to horizontal.  This way the weight
> > of the window is evenly supported by the homosote.
> ----
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homosote is a comosite material made with recycled newspaper and
probabaly some kind of binder.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 06:47:09 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 09:41:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.4412.0>
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Phil Taylor wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike,
>         Thanks for the excellent suggestions.  Will do the "sandwich"
> bit, it sounds safe.  T. in Montana
> ----
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just don't let your piece slide out....:)

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 06:57:30 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 09:51:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.45133.0>
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Paula Nelson wrote:
> 
> Some how the first sentence fell off this when I sent it...
> 
> Homosote is plywood, I have several of different sizes. But there's
> something else that you could look into. Ceiling tile <G>. Go to your local
> large hardware store and pick up a sheet (usually 24x48inches), price runs
> about $2.50+/- @... cut it larger than the size of the project and VERY easy
> to use pushpins and morton strips - or your own support system. They are not
> hardy beasties - but I've used one for several 20x24 projects with very
> little disintegration...
> 
> >But, I am not familiar with homosote.  What is it?
> 
> Paula
> ____________________________________________________________
> 
> Paula Nelson
> pjnjril@ngai.com
> http://pwp.starnetinc.com/pjnjril/uitland.htm
> (708) 399-6791 VoiceMail Pager
> 
> "Life is too short to work weak dogs"
> ____________________________________________________________
> "No slack - but that doesn't make us bad people" SCPCC 13-96
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


homosote is'nt plywood. plywood is plywood (made up from veneers of wood
crisscrossing each other. then glued and heat bonded together. where as
homosote ia a really thick news paper...

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 08:45:33 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:49:05 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.9495.0>
References: <<1997Jan29.41412.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Debi Overton wrote:
> >
> > I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
> > storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
> > a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
> > misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?
> >
> > Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all the
> > help I can get.
> >
> > Thanks all.
> >
> > Debi in Gunnison
> > ----
> >
>

You also may want to put some vertical shelves underneath your table for 
glass storage..Just remember to give yourself some leg room.
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 08:52:17 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: news stuff on page
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:55:50 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.95550.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970129192754.006972e0@pop.bridge.net>>
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M.-J. wrote:
> 
> Hear, hear!
> 
> Responses at the top, please! It makes going through mail so much faster!
> 
> MJ
> 

> >>

I know I was guilty of this.  My PC is new to me, and in the beginning I 
did not know how to delete.. So I feel that there might be more like me 
out there, and the idea of just replying was new and yet, deleting.  
Also,  a few of you helped me through my wrap arounds...so don't be 
critaical, maybe a little friendly PC advise might be helpful.
> 
> >
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 08:55:49 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:59:29 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.95929.0>
References: <<1997Jan30.12211.0>>
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Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote:
> 
> M.J.    Mosaics is not off topic, as it is another method of doing stained glass.
> I do mosaics.  Just finished constructing a table with a stained glass mosaic
> pattern on the top based on a quilt pattern.  Turned out quite nice, and is now
> for sale at a local art gallery.  If you have any questions, just ask.
> ...Christie
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassThat sounds great...Hope to do my first mosaic in the springtime..
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:03:54 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:07:26 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.10726.0>
References: <<199701310947.BAA05738@aphex.direct.ca>>
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kmccullo@direct.ca wrote:
> 
> >M. Savad wrote:
> >>
> >> Linda Campbell wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On the subject of soldering.
> 


I have a little advise when soldering...If you are  a prescription eye 
glass wearer while you are soldering, use your older glasses...lost a 
pair of new glasses, the lenses became al scratched up, i do blame it on 
the solder fumes or vapors.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:07:12 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:10:42 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.101042.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.13139.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo wrote:
> 
> Karin asked:
> <What do you use as a grout ?>
> 

Thanks for the info on buying the grout at the home improvement store..

> Hi there Karin.  The techniques of stained glass and tile mosaics are the same.
> I use regular bathroom tile grout that you can purchase in any home improvement
> center.  I prefer the non-sanded version in white.  I have used the sanded grout
> for plant pots, since it is more 'outdoorsy' than the fine, finished look of the
> non-sanded grout.  Don't be fooled by the so called "special grout for stained
> glass".  Just pick up a box or bag of grout powder from the home improvement
> store.  Don't use the grout that is already mixed, as it dries out in the
> container and you waste a bunch of grout.  If you purchase the powdered grout,
> you just mix up a lot for what you need.  If you stick with white you can then
> add color to the mix to change up the grout color.
> 
> Have fun!....Christie
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:14:19 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:17:57 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.101757.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.74223.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Redware1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> On this subject of mosaics, has anyone tried the mosaic glass cutter? It has
> 2 cutting wheels and is supposed to "easily nip glass into geometric shapes".
> It seems easier than ordering the Italian glass smalti which I last heard was
> available from one person in the U.S.
> 
> Diane
>

Yes, I use it.. Also i keep it at my cutting table, I nip off  the areas 
 of my glass is the break line was not close to the pattern. this saves 
me from grinding all that.


 ----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:24:28 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:28:09 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.10289.0>
References: <<m0vqhrq-0000x4C@daver.bungi.com>>
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Glenna Rand wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you have seen pattern paper that
> was similar to mactac.  When I took my stained glass class our
> teacher sold us some self adhesive type paper that you traced
> your pattern on.  Then you cut it out and placed on the glass.
> And then cut your glass.  I have run out of this wonderful paper
> and the store has since closed.  Does anyone know where I can get
> more of this?
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com


Do you think you can use sticky back contact paper that you buy in the 
home sections (for shelve liners) in the retail stores like K-Mart or 
Walmart.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:31:57 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:35:30 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.103530.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.121829.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Philip McRae wrote:
> >
> > I've got a gripe.
> > I happen to like making panel lampshades. Many designs are of my own mind
> > and hand.  But, I have paid for several (many really) books of various
> > designs.  I find the author lacks in checking the integrity(spelling) of
> > his/her workmanship.  In other words, the patterns are poorly drawn.
> > Take for instance the last shade I made.  It looked good, but take two
> > copies and lay face to face and it's off by 3/16 of an inch. Put that on
> > a panel lamp and it looks bad, real bad.
> >
> > Granted the author did all the design work. Much time and energy went
> > into it, and for 8.95 it's not a steep price.  There isn't much of the
> > written word in any of these pattern books, perhaps the buying public is
> > too much the trusting soul.
> >
> > Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.
> >
> > Phil7


I don't trust any pattern book for exact size.. Before i make my project 
I always check for accuracy...even told my students to do that.. You are 
right, very frustrating when they don't fit.
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> just so we know to avoid the book, who wrote it?
> 
> whenever i buy a book i always see if there are pictures of all the
> projects, this let's me see what color scheme they were thinking. also
> it tells me that it went together ok, that it was tested.
> 
> some people are only good or sort of good, at designing, but they may
> not even know how to do stained glass. like good 'ol ed sibbet jr., he
> does alot of designs, most of them ugly, and he does'nt even do stained
> glass, which of course explains alot.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:33:10 1997
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From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 12:32:48 -0500
Message-ID: <9702021732.AA12471@water.waterw.com>
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Elisabeth wrote,
>Good Heavens, you just spoke the lament of my soul..... However hard 
>I try, only too often do my photographs screw up. I have spoken to 
>more professional photographers than I have had hot dinners. >>

We have found that hiring a professional is the "best" way to go.  No matter
how hard we try our photos just come out ok.  As you can tell from our Web
Site I am sure you would be able to tell the difference from the
professional photos.
There are just not enough hours in the day to learn everything...that is why
there are professional  photographers. Sort of a trade. I would never expect
them to be able to create what we do either.  And at this point we really
don't have the time to sit on site and wait for the right lighting either.
Or do we care to.  


How are you arrangements for your trip coming???  My offer still
stands....we could meet and chat about some of the great things in Chartre
you should not miss!!!  
Hope all is well.

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 09:45:55 1997
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From: Connie Gleason <cgleason@jeffco.k12.co.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: copper foil
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 10:43:56 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.24356.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Mandalay Middle School
Precedence: bulk

Hi,
I'm new to the boards and I have appreciated all these great helpful 
hints.  I have done glass for about 10 years, but I have been away from 
it for a couple of years due to many moves around the country.  I am 
starting up again.  I need to know if my copper foil (which I have a lot 
of)  is still good.  It has been packed in a box in the basement, much 
has been opened but kept in a plastic bag.  Is it still good?  Do I 
chance using it?  Also there was someone on the boards who used Corel 
Draw to design patterns - does anyone remember who it was?  Does anyone 
know about this new computer stained glass designing software?  Is it 
like Corel Draw?   Thanks for  any info...  I am really enjoying 
receiving all these messages and info.  Debbie are you from Gunnison, CO? 
 If you are, you are not far from me!
       Thanks, Connie
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 10:19:05 1997
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From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 13:18:42 -0500
Message-ID: <9702021818.AA14827@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Connie wrote

,,.  I need to know if my copper foil (which I have a lot 
>of)  is still good.  It has been packed in a box in the basement, much 
>has been opened but kept in a plastic bag.  Is it still good?.. 

Connie,

Why would you chance it??? I would chuck it all and start from the
beginning.  Like the ole saying goes..."When in doubt, throw it out!".

I have used a couple of the "New" design programs. I haven't used the new
Corel Draw so I don't know how similar they are.  But I do know that the new
programs are more like CAD programs than Corel Draw is.
If I can answer any questions about the new programs just let me know

I was wondering how close to Olathe you are?  My brother-in-law has a ranch
there.
In fact its on Gunnison Road.


From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 10:23:07 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 12:22:12 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702021822.MAA12113@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I had the opportunity to talk to a world class mandolin maker once at a
party and of course the discussion eventually turned to craftsmanship. A
very humble guy with a refreshing lack of ego for a person of his status
said more or less that craftsmanship is a series of properly sequenced steps
none of which in and of themselves are difficult. The thing being to know
what they are and giving them all equal attention however mundane or
inconsequential some of them might seem. The result being that the whole
becomes greater then the sum of its parts.

Just some sunday morning blabber :-)

Len




 every piece should be looked at as
>if it was the center of attention. so the next time anyone looks at a
>lamp, or asks how the colors got where they are, you could tell them it
>was'nt by accident.  btw this last paragraph was'nt aimed for anyone,
>it's just for pleasant reading...or something like that...
>
>
>---Mike Savad

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:06:01 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:07:30 -0800
Message-ID: <199702022005.MAA01689@aphex.direct.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I never considered that solder fumes or vapors could possibly damage your
glasses. Your suggestion is a good one. I always wear these gorgeous looking
eye protective things that kind of cup the forehead & cheek bone and also
protect the sides of your eyes. I mean"I always" wear them when I'm doing
any glass work, they are a bit of a pain to get use too, but eyes are too
important to not wear anything.
Karin
>
>I have a little advise when soldering...If you are  a prescription eye 
>glass wearer while you are soldering, use your older glasses...lost a 
>pair of new glasses, the lenses became al scratched up, i do blame it on 
>the solder fumes or vapors.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:32:31 1997
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From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: G.A.S. Conference
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:31:50 -0500
Message-ID: <9702022031.AA21913@water.waterw.com>
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                     Global Glass

Just wondering if anyone will be attending the G.A.S. conference in Tucson.
Hard to believe that this will be the 27th one already.

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:36:52 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 15:31:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.10313.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.10726.0>>
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Gloria wrote:
> 
> kmccullo@direct.ca wrote:
> >
> > >M. Savad wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Linda Campbell wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > On the subject of soldering.
> >
> 
> I have a little advise when soldering...If you are  a prescription eye
> glass wearer while you are soldering, use your older glasses...lost a
> pair of new glasses, the lenses became al scratched up, i do blame it on
> the solder fumes or vapors.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


fumes don't scratch anything, if anything scratched them up it was you
who may have tried wiping the lens off without soap and water. i have to
wear glasses to see, and it is a problem, if anything you know what your
breathing in. after i'm done soldering, i wash everything off, hands
arms, neck, face, lens, etc.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:40:48 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 15:35:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.10351.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.24356.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Connie Gleason wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I'm new to the boards and I have appreciated all these great helpful
> hints.  I have done glass for about 10 years, but I have been away from
> it for a couple of years due to many moves around the country.  I am
> starting up again.  I need to know if my copper foil (which I have a lot
> of)  is still good.  It has been packed in a box in the basement, much
> has been opened but kept in a plastic bag.  Is it still good?  Do I
> chance using it?  Also there was someone on the boards who used Corel
> Draw to design patterns - does anyone remember who it was?  Does anyone
> know about this new computer stained glass designing software?  Is it
> like Corel Draw?   Thanks for  any info...  I am really enjoying
> receiving all these messages and info.  Debbie are you from Gunnison, CO?
>  If you are, you are not far from me!
>        Thanks, Connie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


if the foil sticks, it's still good. if it comes off after you apply it
(to clean glass), chuck it and buy some new stuff. you may have to do
that to some of your chemicals to.

corel draw is a good place for patterns, soon i'm going to show a bunch
of suncatchers i made from it, on my page. the graphics do need some
tweeking though.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:53:47 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: a few more lamps
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 97 12:50:19 -0500
Message-ID: <199702022053.MAA16916@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

A few more lamps have been added to the "studio"

When time or desire allows, take a look.........enjoy......H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 12:55:46 1997
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From: Marissa McLaughlin <marissam@mindspring.com>
To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM
Subject: how can I permanantly mark glass?
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:57:18 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970202205718.0067b4c4@pop.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Help!!  I need to permanantly draw tiny eyes, nose & mouth on a piece of
glass. How can I do this?  Are there decals for this?  Glass paint?


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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 13:08:26 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: how can I permanantly mark glass?
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 16:02:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.11224.0>
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Marissa McLaughlin wrote:
> 
> Help!!  I need to permanantly draw tiny eyes, nose & mouth on a piece of
> glass. How can I do this?  Are there decals for this?  Glass paint?
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i use an electric engraver (the vibrating kind). first i draw the
detail  with marker, then engrave it, then color it with either marker
or a dark paint and fill in the lines. or you can use deka gloss paint.
to make tiny eyes use a really small diameter rod, dip it in, and make
an eye.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 14:00:01 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:05:41 +0000
Message-ID: <199702022159.QAA23061@ns.computer.net>
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> fumes don't scratch anything

Well, some of them will *etch glass. Depends on what sorta fumes they 
are.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 14:13:45 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 17:07:52 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.12752.0>
References: <<199702022159.QAA23061@ns.computer.net>>
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > fumes don't scratch anything
> 
> Well, some of them will *etch glass. Depends on what sorta fumes they
> are.
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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well, ok fine, solder fumes should'nt scratch anything... etching acid
should only etch glass though. most glasses now or either a plastic or
poly carbonate.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 15:43:55 1997
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From: Marissa McLaughlin <marissam@mindspring.com>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: how can I permanantly mark glass?
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 15:45:08 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970202234508.00672560@pop.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Mike.  I used a deka paint pen & it worked great.


At 04:02 PM 2/2/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Marissa McLaughlin wrote:
>> 
>> Help!!  I need to permanantly draw tiny eyes, nose & mouth on a piece of
>> glass. How can I do this?  Are there decals for this?  Glass paint?
>> 
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>i use an electric engraver (the vibrating kind). first i draw the
>detail  with marker, then engrave it, then color it with either marker
>or a dark paint and fill in the lines. or you can use deka gloss paint.
>to make tiny eyes use a really small diameter rod, dip it in, and make
>an eye.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>-- 
>Mike's Stained Glass
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>
>New Pages Added:
>
> - More Tips and Techniques
> - How to Fix Mistakes
> - The History of My Shop
> - My Adventures of Mold Making
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 17:16:12 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:15:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.151540.0>
References: <<199702022159.QAA23061@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:

> 
> > fumes don't scratch anything
> 
> Well, some of them will *etch glass. Depends on what sorta fumes they 
> are.
> Albert

It also depends on what type of coating was on the lens. I can tell you
that my anti-reflective coating is kinda delicate.

Mary


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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 17:42:51 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Marissa McLaughlin <marissam@mindspring.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: how can I permanantly mark glass?
Date: 02 Feb 97 20:38:56 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.13856.0>
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<Help!!  I need to permanantly draw tiny eyes, nose & mouth on a piece of
glass. How can I do this?  Are there decals for this?  Glass paint?>

Yes, glass paint when fused into the glass using a kiln, is the way to go for
permanancy.  Don't own a kiln?  Don't have a kiln as large as the piece to be
fired?  Other problems?  Try etching the pattern to be made permanate using a
dremel or other etching tool, and then painting the etched line.  Not totally
permanate, but pretty darn close.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 18:37:12 1997
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From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:51:07 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.12517.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.103530.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Gloria,

How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we 
publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis 
would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints, 
and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.

Phil7

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 18:38:57 1997
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From: "Loveta Elmore" <loveta@arn.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re:Accurate lamp patterns
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:37:19 -0600
Message-ID: <199702030237.UAA11364@arnet.arn.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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After years of teaching classes I never use a copy machine when dealing
with something that must fit. like a lamp.  Especially with angles.  To get
an idea of what happens, check angle on original pattern and then check
angles on patterns after you have copied it on a copy machine.   Off 1/32
or 1/64 of an inch is a disaster.  Many times it is more than that. 

Never assume a pattern out of a book is accurate, always measure angles and
redraw if need be.

Hope this helps
Loveta


----------
> From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: patterns
> Date: Sunday, February 02, 1997 2:16 AM
> 
> Loveta Elmore wrote:
> > 
> > Philip
> > 
> > What did you use to make your copies with?  Copy machine or by hand?
> > I photocopied on a canon copier, and then hand copied. both worked out 
> the same.  I've checked several patterns from the same book(hardly that) 
> and most work just fine.  This one book was printed in 84' and must have 
> been reprinted many, many times. I opened the bulk package at the store, 
> so it's a late edition. Am I the first, or only the latest to complain?
> 
> phil7
> 
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 19:26:56 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:27:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.132731.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.24356.0>>
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Debbie are you from Gunnison, CO?
>  If you are, you are not far from me!

Hi Connie,
Yep, I am.  Where are you from?  -Debi
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 19:28:54 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 19:30:19 -0800
Message-ID: <199702030328.TAA25349@aphex.direct.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Phil Wrote:
>
>How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we 
>publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis 
>would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints, 
>and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.
>
>Don't be so sure. Someone would find a reason to get their knickers in a knot. 
>Actually, this group is just an extended family. 
Karin  
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 19:29:04 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:29:58 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.132958.0>
References: <<9702021818.AA14827@water.waterw.com>>
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> I was wondering how close to Olathe you are?  My brother-in-law has a ranch
> there.
> In fact its on Gunnison Road.

I'm about 75 miles from Olathe.  I go through there on my way to the
nearest good glass shop.  -Debi
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 20:29:50 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Photographing stained glass
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:31:07 -0800
Message-ID: <199702030429.UAA11378@orb.direct.ca>
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Elizabeth wrote:
>When taking pictures remember this tip,  never take pictures directly in to
>sun.  In the morning take pictures in the west.  Never use a flash.  Try
>it, you will be amazed at your results.  trying to get a person in the
>photo adds unsolvable problems unless you are an expert photographer.
>
>I have a Pentax also which I've had since the mid 60's with spotmatik lens
and I use a UV filter. I can shoot thru glass without getting the
reflection.I also use Fuji film instead of Kodak. Kodak has a red/blue hue
to it, so it's not very good if your taking pictures of subjects  which have
a lot of blue tint. Something else that can make a difference is the
processing or developing of the film, which you probably don't have a lot of
control over.   
Karin

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 20:44:21 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mosaics ... uneven "tessarae"
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 23:45:59 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970202234217.0069fd94@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

OK ... so a question ...or 2 on mosaics, please.

I'm making a piece to fit in the wall of an existing shower. I want to use
tile and marble, and perhaps glass, too. My concern is, all these materials
are a different thickness. I plan an indirect method of construction,
placing the pieces face down on clear contact. Then I plan to add thinset
to the back to make a level surface and allow that to dry before I add
another layer of thinset to the wall and apply the mosaic?

Am I anywhere near the right track???????? Is thinset the wrong material
for this leveling?  Any feedback warmly welcomed!

Thanks.

MJ



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 21:08:36 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 21:28:24 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.142824.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.4412.0>>
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Hi,  Like two-week-old salami?    T. in Montana



> >         Thanks for the excellent suggestions.  Will do the "sandwich"
> > bit, it sounds safe.  T. in Montana 
> just don't let your piece slide out....:)
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 21:09:21 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mosaics ... uneven "tessarae"
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:11:04 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970202234217.006a0b10@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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OK ... so a question ...or 2 on mosaics, please.

I'm making a piece to fit in the wall of an existing shower. I want to use
tile and marble, and perhaps glass, too. My concern is, all these materials
are a different thickness. I plan an indirect method of construction,
placing the pieces face down on clear contact. Then I plan to add thinset
to the back to make a level surface and allow that to dry before I add
another layer of thinset to the wall and apply the mosaic?

Am I anywhere near the right track???????? Is thinset the wrong material
for this leveling?  Any feedback warmly welcomed!

Thanks.

MJ



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 21:13:49 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 21:33:40 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.143340.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.12517.0>>
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Philip,  I'm all for it.  Who wants to be the one to gather them all and 
then distribute them?  You?   T. in Montana




Philip McRae wrote:
> 
> Gloria,
> 
> How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we
> publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis
> would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints,
> and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.
> 
> Phil7
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 21:33:00 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: AZ and TX places
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:32:37 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.193237.0>
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Hello,

I will be in Scottsdale, Arizona March 24th through the 29th and in Austin,
TX from March 31st through the 5th.  Does anyone know of any shows, exhibits
or the like that I could attend?  

Thanks,
Susie
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 21:53:40 1997
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From: AAnder2369@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: DR Glass & Others
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:53:27 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb2.195327.0>
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Hello Everyone,

   Can anybody help me in locating DR Glass, the company that used to make
these are now out of business I think, and I really need them badly I need
about 300 sq.ft. of medium green. Thank You.

Oh also, does anybody know of used tempering and beveling machines for sale?

Thanks again.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  2 22:49:29 1997
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From: Paula Nelson <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 06:50:12 GMT
Message-ID: <199702030650.GAA12543@email6.starnetinc.com>
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Mike Savad wrote:

>homosote is'nt plywood. plywood is plywood (made up from veneers of wood
>crisscrossing each other. then glued and heat bonded together. where as
>homosote ia a really thick news paper...

Ya' know... I thought that was odd... I've been doing this for 6+ years and
I call plywood - plywood too <G>. But the instructor of my graduate level SG
class insisted that homosote was plywood. (?) I always thought it was the
stuff that I called 'ceiling tile' but I just figured I'd missed something
somewhere. Thanks for the correction... now I'm wondering about "her" <laugh>.

Paula Nelson
pjnjril@ngai.com

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 03:59:21 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 07:04:42 +0000
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> >How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we 
> >publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis 
> >would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints, 
> >and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.

"Ole' Al Lewis"? !!  Is that ageism at work?  Or do you just know how 
*old I am? <g> (16-year-old boy trapped in 53-year-old body!)

> >Don't be so sure. Someone would find a reason to get their knickers in a knot. 
> >Actually, this group is just an extended family. 

Quite right; that's why we quarrel from time to time. <s>

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 06:39:20 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:33:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.43323.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.151540.0>>
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maruca@netaxs.com wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> >
> > > fumes don't scratch anything
> >
> > Well, some of them will *etch glass. Depends on what sorta fumes they
> > are.
> > Albert
> 
> It also depends on what type of coating was on the lens. I can tell you
> that my anti-reflective coating is kinda delicate.
> 
> Mary
> 
> ----
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acually it's pretty strong stuff chemical wise, i once removes speckles
of automotive paint, with prepsall (like naptha). and it cleaned it
better than any soap. but of course you just look at it wrong and it
scratches.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 06:48:34 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:42:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.44238.0>
References: <<199702030650.GAA12543@email6.starnetinc.com>>
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Paula Nelson wrote:
> 
> Mike Savad wrote:
> 
> >homosote is'nt plywood. plywood is plywood (made up from veneers of wood
> >crisscrossing each other. then glued and heat bonded together. where as
> >homosote ia a really thick news paper...
> 
> Ya' know... I thought that was odd... I've been doing this for 6+ years and
> I call plywood - plywood too <G>. But the instructor of my graduate level SG
> class insisted that homosote was plywood. (?) I always thought it was the
> stuff that I called 'ceiling tile' but I just figured I'd missed something
> somewhere. Thanks for the correction... now I'm wondering about "her" <laugh>.
> 
> Paula Nelson
> pjnjril@ngai.com
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


actually ceiling tile is another material altogether. homosote would be
to heavy. though it can be used as a very basic insulation, or a bulitan
board. in some houses they put sheets of this stuff up, then put burlap
to "pretty it up" (as if burlap was ever nice to look at in the first
place). the result, a giant dart board, a huge bullitin board, and it'll
never show up with any holes in it.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 06:50:12 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:51:58 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970203012613.00687b38@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Where can this cutter be found, please?

MJ

Oh, and  I *think* smalti can be had through Dal-Tile ...
they do have two types of glass mosaic tile ... one is called Kolorines,
I'm not sure about the other, but they have a lot of variety.

<snip>>> 2 cutting wheels and is supposed to "easily nip glass into
geometric shapes".

>> It seems easier than ordering the Italian glass smalti which I last
heard was available from one person in the U.S.


>> 
>> Diane
>>
>
>Yes, I use it.. Also i keep it at my cutting table, I nip off  the areas 
> of my glass is the break line was not close to the pattern. this saves 
>me from grinding all that.

<snip>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 07:04:13 1997
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From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Small cartoons for stained glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:03:33 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702031503.KAA24948@digital.net>
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You can also visit Art Glass World's list of retailers at
http://www.artglassworld.com/dlist.html, sponsored by the Stained Glass
News.  While you're there check out Stained Glass Quarterly's new special
feature article: Protective Glazing for Stained Glass Windows.  This highly
informative article examines the findings of Inspired Partnerships's study
of protective glazing in the stianed glass industry.

Jennifer

At 06:53 AM 2/2/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> Where can I find a book of small cartoons to make stained glass sun catchers,
>
>Go to Inland's web site at  http://www.thestorefinder.com and click 
>on the storefinder, then on your state. A list of stores in your area 
>will appear ... most of them will carry the kind of books you're 
>looking for.
>
>Albert
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>International Guild of Glass Artists
>A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 07:35:18 1997
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From: StndGlass1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:34:43 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.53443.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


<<Where can this cutter be found, please?>>

We carry the mosaic cutter.  It retails for $21.00.

Jenna
Meredith Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 07:52:12 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Where can one find LDPE?
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:44:56 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.154456.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Try Small Parts, Inc.  1-800-220-4242 and ask for a free catalogue.  They
have lots of sheet stock, LDPE, HDPE, Teflon, etc.

Mike Peck

At 11:24 PM 2/1/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Does anyone know where one can find clear LDPE -- Low Density PolyEthylene
>film? I've read it's good for use in a glass mosaic application, but I have
>no clue as to where to begin looking for it.
>
>Thanks.
>
>M.-J. Taylor
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:06:48 1997
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:06:22 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530502af1bbb715224@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

The largest of this type that I have done was about 72" by 24," so I will
tell you what worked for me.  I cut two pieces of plywood slightly larger
than the piece and assembled it. I soldered all of one side first, putting
down a good bead to ensure as much strength as possible.  I used a glass
cleaner to get rid of the unwanted flux. Then I layed the second piece of
plywood on top and GENTLY clamped all of this together. Then, I was able to
turn the piece over without fear of breaking. I soldered the back side with
a good bead and put in the necessary cross-bracing. I then had several thin
pieces of cardboard that I lay between the braces as I sandwiched the piece
again so that I could complete polishing both sides before sliding into a
frame.

Good luck,
=Gary



>Hi, when I get ready to foil and solder my "Large Window" I am curious
>about the flux and soldering.  I've not done a large piece before (65"
>long by 19" high), and am not sure about a number of soldering issues.
>        Do I tack the top side and then flip it to tack the reverse
>side?  Or, because of the size, should I do a first bead around the top
>side and then flip it over?
>        How much flux should I use during soldering? (I use Glasflux
>liquid)
>        How do I remove the flux?
>        Would appreciate any help and comments.  Thanks, T. in Montana
>----
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      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:09:36 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1
From: StndGlass1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: DR Glass & Others
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:09:26 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.6926.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 <<Can anybody help me in locating DR Glass,>>

If by DR you are referring to Double Roll, we have a decent stock of that
glass right now.  I would be happy to check and see if we have what you need!
 E-mail or call me at 1-800-966-6667.

Jenna
Meredith Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:23:14 1997
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Small cartoons for stained glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:22:35 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530506af1bc100a062@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You might consider looking at some coloring books in the toy section of
your local department stores. They may offer some good ideas for these
types of sun catchers.

=Gary

>> Where can I find a book of small cartoons to make stained glass sun catchers,
>
>Go to Inland's web site at  http://www.thestorefinder.com and click
>on the storefinder, then on your state. A list of stores in your area
>will appear ... most of them will carry the kind of books you're
>looking for.
>
>Albert
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>International Guild of Glass Artists
>A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:32:38 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:Accurate lamp patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:50:36 +0000
Message-ID: <199702031631.QAA03776@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hear, Hear, Loveta!!
Measure, measure and measure again!
Afraid that nothing replaces old-fashioned conscientoiusness 
(spelling??). Never rely on someone else to do your job for you. It's 
so easy to pass the buck; it's so easy to grab at straws and expect 
someone else to know better what you want than you yourself. If a 
pattern is wrong, you think that you are at fault; if a photocopier 
screws up, you think that you have got your measurements wrong; if a 
photographer delivers indifferent photos, you think your own 
colourmix is at fault.
I don't want to labour the point. Your approach Loveta, is very much 
much my own...
Elisabeth 'n Toby


<After years of teaching classes I never use a copy machine when dealing
with something that must fit. like a lamp.  Especially with angles.  To get
an idea of what happens, check angle on original pattern and then check
angles on patterns after you have copied it on a copy machine.   Off 1/32
or 1/64 of an inch is a disaster.  Many times it is more than that. 

Never assume a pattern out of a book is accurate, always measure angles and
redraw if need be.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:32:38 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:50:35 +0000
Message-ID: <199702031631.QAA03773@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

Jeez, have I acquired a reputation (or noteriety!!)!!
I am a gentle & purring pussy cat - really....
OK, OK, I might have a couple of bees in my bonnet, but  then who hasn't?
But other than that, it ain't such a bad idea!!!    ;-)
A collection of Glass @ Bungi "ideal" pattern/s, politically & 
linguistically "correct", .... hang on, I better stop, before my 
imagination and wicked wild sense of humour flies away with me.
But, hang on there... WHY NOT ??
It is true that we do "winge" about pattern books; so there is no 
reason why each of of us couldn't come up with a contribution or two born 
out of our own heads and experiences. I can think of "worse" people 
than Ole Al to edit, put it together in the form of a REAL pattern 
book, commercially available and proceeds (less expenses) to benefit
The "Poverty-Stricken Stained Glass  Learner ( be it 
beginner/intermediate/advanced) Worl-Wide Benevolent Fund".
.... One can dream.... and pigs might fly...
But at least we could show them folks out there just what stained 
glass people want from stained glass patterns..... (Eat your heart 
out Ed. !!)
Hey Toby, hide your head and wait for the barrage..!!
Elisabeth 'n (hiding) Toby
Gloria,

How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we 
publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis 
would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints, 
and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.

Phil7

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----
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:32:41 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:50:36 +0000
Message-ID: <199702031631.QAA03781@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi Albert,
But OF COURSE it's ageism in full flower!!
Here we are, old "stogeys", only inches away from our 
"Zimmer-frames", coughing and spluttering in/out of the "bunker", 
refusing to grow up...  (or GIVE up)
You know what they say; "cunning and age conquer youth and 
innoscence". But there again: "Age is mind over matter... if you 
don't mind, it doesn't matter..." So what the hell...
You are 16 and I am... the Queen of Sheba...!
Elisabeth 'n  (young) Toby


"Ole' Al Lewis"? !!  Is that ageism at work?  Or do you just know how 
*old I am? <g> (16-year-old boy trapped in 53-year-old body!)
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:34:18 1997
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From: "Ken Lerner" <lernerk@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: flipping a large panel
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 10:22:20 CST
Message-ID: <9701038549.AA854994656@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


          Per the question about flipping over a large panel...

          I happened to see my instructor doing this in the studio one
          day, he used the following technique:

          First he slid the panel over so that the long edge
          was along the edge of the table.  He then carefully
          slid (pulled) the panel out over the edge until he could
          pivot it to an upright position.  Holding the now vertical
          panel, he then turned around ("did the hokey pokey") 180
          degrees, put the panel back against the edge of the table
          and tilted it back up onto the table again (i.e. the reverse
          of the first part of the procedure).  I hope that
          explanation made sense.  Pivoting the panel over the edge of
          the table puts less strain on it than just lifting up one
          edge.  I'm sure there are limits on how big a panel you can
          flip this way... also for a long panel you would want help.
          Just thought I would pass along this "tip" ;-)

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:46:34 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:04:54 +0000
Message-ID: <199702031646.QAA08129@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Connie,
Welcome aboard.
There has been a lot of discussion about computer stained glass 
design software in the last few months. You should be able to find 
more details in the Glass@Bungi Archives.
Other than that, perhaps you have caught a comment or two about 
Dragonfly's "Glasseye", a software design programme specifically 
designed for stained glass. Check them out for your self. They have a 
WEB page   http://www.dfly.com
can be contacted via e-mail: glasseye@dfly.com
are based in San Rafael, California
Their programme, the pros and cons have been fairly extensively aired 
at Glass@Bungi. Quite a number of people in Glass@Bungi Group now have 
this programme. Albert Lewis at IGGA also has available member's 
reviews..
Let us know how you get on
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Connie wrote:
  Does anyone 
know about this new computer stained glass designing software?  Is it 
like Corel Draw?   Thanks for  any info...  I am really enjoying 
receiving all these messages and info.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 08:55:31 1997
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X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: bevelling machines
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:53:36 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <9702031653.AA04360@crosfield.co.uk>
References: <<1997Feb2.195327.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> Oh also, does anybody know of used tempering and beveling machines for sale?

Keep an eye on (or ask in) the news group "rec.crafts.glass"; there's someone
in there who occasionally posts about some old bevelling machines - I get
the impression they're fairly expensive, large, and heavy - presumably they're
industrial ones, each of which does a single stage, rather than hobby ones.

-Jerry
-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 09:24:14 1997
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From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:23:42 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <9702031723.AA04435@crosfield.co.uk>
References: <<199702011617.KAA01474@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> Anyone serious about S.G.should have sample sets at least
> from the mfg'ers that they are most likely to buy from. A  photographic or
> computer rendering is no substitute for the real thing, not only for color
> but also for texture, degree of light transmission, and relative values to
> other glasses that might be used in a project.

True - unfortunately, with the some of the multicoloured glass, the pattern
can be bigger than a small sample - so in those cases, a full-sheet image
would also be useful - but even then, the variation from sheet to sheet
is often enough to make a big difference. It's hard to beat picking glass
in person, unless you're sticking to single colour or small pattern bits.

(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
is beyond me. Quick rule of thumb, which works for stained glass too: Take
UK price in pounds. Replace pounds by dollars to get approximate US price.
(around a third cheaper). Even after allowing for shipping and
duty and VAT it can still work out cheaper, especially if you can wait for
surface shipping - a *lot* cheaper for books, which are zero rated for VAT
and duty.)   


-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 09:59:35 1997
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From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: photos of glass
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:02:23 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.2223.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.14182.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Harold De Vos:

If you are looking for glass, go to Spectrum Glass's website.

www.spectrumglass.com

They have their glass up on the web.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 10:16:02 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:14:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970203132344.1c3fac5c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 03:40 PM 1/27/97 -0500, you wrote:

>By pushing, you see where the cutter is going.
>By pulling, you only see where it's been.

     I am confused.... I learn so much from this group and I am always
interested in improving my cutting  (and other) skills.  So I did some
practicing with the pushing method.  I have always pulled the cutter.  
        When I push the cutter I cannot see a darn thing except where I have
been.
        When I pull I can see exactly where I am going as well as where I
have been.  The tip of the cutter that holds the wheel has a very short
little line on it painted black.  This line indicates to me that is where
the wheel is touching the glass.  Therefore I am free to guide the cutter to
go exactly where it should be going.  I was more of the thought that I
needed the practice in controlling the cutter than changing cutting
techniques and directions.
        Another question.... While pulling the cutter I keep the wheel
perpendicular to the glass.... when pushing the cutter I assume the same is
true, is this a good assumption?
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 10:17:09 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:16:26 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970203132556.23774c8e@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.

At 04:13 PM 1/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
>-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
>
>IMHO the idea and function of a soldering iron is melt solder.
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 10:41:25 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:46:55 +0000
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> If you are looking for glass, go to Spectrum Glass's website.

http://www.spectrumglass.com is good, but you should also check out 
the newest site I've found ... terrific German full antique that 
downloads *fast! It's the Glashuette Lambert home page at 
http://www.lamberts.de

Great stuff.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 10:41:26 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:46:55 +0000
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> Albert Lewis at IGGA also has available member's 
> reviews..

A review of the dragonfly software is in the latest issue of Common 
Ground: Glass ... go http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm and 
you can subscribe from there. Sorry to suggest you should actually 
spend $, but IGGA's a nonprofit group that needs all the income it 
can muster. <s>

The review *was online here for a couple of weeks as a thankyou to 
bungi.com people who participated ... the review of American Bevel's 
"Designer" can be reached via their website at 
http://www.americanbevel.com

If that policy seems uneven, I guess it is. I assume we'll hear 
shortly from dragonfly about doing the same for them. <s>

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 11:05:28 1997
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From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: alewis@computer.net, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: copper foil
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 11:08:21 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.3821.0>
References: <<199702031840.NAA13210@ns.computer.net>>
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Albert:

Did I miss something? I don't understand this posting.

Dick
American Bevel, Inc.


Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > Albert Lewis at IGGA also has available member's
> > reviews..
> 
> A review of the dragonfly software is in the latest issue of Common
> Ground: Glass ... go http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm and
> you can subscribe from there. Sorry to suggest you should actually
> spend $, but IGGA's a nonprofit group that needs all the income it
> can muster. <s>
> 
> The review *was online here for a couple of weeks as a thankyou to
> bungi.com people who participated ... the review of American Bevel's
> "Designer" can be reached via their website at
> http://www.americanbevel.com
> 
> If that policy seems uneven, I guess it is. I assume we'll hear
> shortly from dragonfly about doing the same for them. <s>
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 11:46:56 1997
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From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 14:44:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.94415.0>
References: <<1997Jan22.232122.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jim Jablonski wrote:
> 
> I am new to this group and have fun reading your comments.
> I started Stained Glass a year ago, and after 4 months the local glass
> store went out of buisness.
> So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
> at price, selection and quality?
> 
> By the way,  Mike Savad said " you can tune a guitar, but you can't
> tuna fish."
> Did you know the way to tuna fish is to play up 'n down it's scales? :)
> 
> Thx in advance for your future resonses.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Just want to clear things up!
If you think Warner-Crivellaro is only known for its unique bevels then
you really don't know us too well! We also sell our own custom designed
filigree, castings, stencils and more. Not to mention all the tools,
supplies, lamps, glass, books that you can order and much more. We have
variety as well as great prices! Categorically, we sell 20% off
everything and frequently 50% off what other suppliers sell their items.
Our sales flyers always have something exciting and new on sale. I mean
how many times are you going to buy goggles? We offer great sale items
on filigree, bevels, castings, etc. on already low prices (think of all
the wonderful gifts you could make!). I just want to conclude by saying
that Warner-Crivellaro is a very large company and our inventory is
huge! You will always find what you need. We are always very well
stocked in just about everything. So if you have any questions, you know
how to reach me.
Elenie
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 12:10:44 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hot Solder
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:21:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970203133043.1c3fbdb2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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  Hello.....  
                        B.J. Snell did not write the following:
                                                                But I did
ask about solder irons.
                One danger of too much editing... I wouldn't want the
individual sharing this information to not get the proper credit...

At 08:00 PM 1/27/97 -0200, you wrote:
>B. J. Snell wrote:
>> I started out with the Ungar Iron... But the Iron I use now is the Hakko 
>"Super Pro" 60watt iron... This is also the one I made Dave buy...Also 
>this is the second one I bought...seems it has a life span.l..Lasted 
>about 2 years of alot of use... I bought mine from Delphi...best price 
>but better in the fall when they have the 25% off sale.. Sad---needed 
>the Iron and had to pay the full price...but realize it was still the 
>best investment.. Please use a reostat.
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 13:45:04 1997
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From: Harold De Vos <hdevos@win.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering fumes/eyes
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:06:43 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.9643.0>
References: <<199702022005.MAA01689@aphex.direct.ca>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Before glass work I used to do a lot of precise close up
soldering of small electronic circuit boards. Several times
I got so close that my eyes, especially my left,  would get 
slightly irritated by the heated flux fumes.  Also, I would get 
flu-like breathing problems.

Within six months,  I started going blind in that eye and
before I could get in for the eye appointment, it progressed
so far that I could barely see bright images. The story ends
well, I can see just as good as before but I now have a 
new plastic lens as a replacement for my natural lens. 

The flu like problems also stopped after some cursory ventilation. 

According to the doc,  this could happen naturally, but usually to 
much older folks than I!  Like I, he is also convinced 
it was related to both the heat and the toxic fumes, but mainly 
just my slovenly poor soldering habits.  I even held solder in 
my mouth as a sort of third hand!  Phew, what I dummy!

So take the obvious cautions folks! I doubt that most of you are
that ignorant, but on the other hand,  do take it seriously!
Bud


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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 14:27:05 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 17:30:24 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.153024.0>
References: <<1997Feb2.12517.0>>
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Philip McRae wrote:
> 
> Gloria,
> 
> How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we
> publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis
> would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints,
> and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.
> 
> Phil7

Sounds good to me. I will go for it..
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 15:51:28 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 18:45:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.134538.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970203132344.1c3fac5c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
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B. J. Snell wrote:
> 
> At 03:40 PM 1/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >By pushing, you see where the cutter is going.
> >By pulling, you only see where it's been.
> 
>      I am confused.... I learn so much from this group and I am always
> interested in improving my cutting  (and other) skills.  So I did some
> practicing with the pushing method.  I have always pulled the cutter.
>         When I push the cutter I cannot see a darn thing except where I have
> been.
>         When I pull I can see exactly where I am going as well as where I
> have been.  The tip of the cutter that holds the wheel has a very short
> little line on it painted black.  This line indicates to me that is where
> the wheel is touching the glass.  Therefore I am free to guide the cutter to
> go exactly where it should be going.  I was more of the thought that I
> needed the practice in controlling the cutter than changing cutting
> techniques and directions.
>         Another question.... While pulling the cutter I keep the wheel
> perpendicular to the glass.... when pushing the cutter I assume the same is
> true, is this a good assumption?
> Barbara J. Snell
> Dept. of Campus Life
> Cornell University
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah the cutter should always be perpendicular to the glass. when using
the push method, make sure you look ahead of the cutter not behind it.
when you pull that's when you look behind, the problem is that for most
people an arm always seems to appear when your trying to make a cut. 

but if you cutting, and it always on the line, what ever method you used
you should just keep using. sometimes the method may vary between cutter
to cutter.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 15:57:39 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 18:53:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.135338.0>
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Precedence: bulk

B. J. Snell wrote:
> 
>  Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.
> 
Sorry to answer for Howard, but in e-mail parlaiance-IMHO-"In My Humble
Opinion"- Like BTW="By The Way"

Lee
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 16:42:33 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 19:10:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.151050.0>
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>  Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.


IMHO = in my humble opinion.
BTW = by the way.
:-}  = smile
;-}  = wink and a smile

etc. etc. etc.

Isn't there a name for these abbreviations and a listing somewhere? They
can get pretty obscure.

Hilary
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:15:46 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:17:27 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970203195726.00689728@pop.bridge.net>
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Jerry wrote:


>(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
>locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
>the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
>is beyond me.
<snip>

It's the size of the market. 

MJ

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:26:05 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Carol Swann <seaspray@island.net>
Subject: Re: pricing Tiffany lamps
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 17:22:14 -0500
Message-ID: <199702040125.RAA23614@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Hi Carol, if the only people building shades were doing quality work and not
being paid pennies a day as in the orient and third world countries we would
have no competition.

Now for a few hints..........First off, KEEP accurate records of ALL your
hours, measure glass before starting and what is a "useable" size
sheet when left, solder, any other stuff (foil, jewels, filigree, hardware)
and of course the form and pattern. NEVER stint on the quality of the glass
because of a price constraint.

As for pricing guidelines, it has taken me a lot of years to have enough
records of my shades to be able to quote a price on a shade I have not yet
made, as well a FAIR price on the ones I do as production ones.

Do not let the buying public or a gallery set YOUR prices, but get a fair to
good hourly wage as well a profit on the materials. I always figure the form
cost into each shade, even though they are re-usable(Odyssey).

For a starting place, figure on a per piece price, a 400 piece 16" shade
will use less glass than a 400 piece 22" but may take longer as the pieces
are smaller....NO hard fast rule........Also price a shade as to what you
would need to get as an hourly rate( after figuring all the expenses) if it
were purchased from a gallery and they TOOK their commision. I look at the
LESS than skilled craftsmen in a lot of fields (carpentry, plumbing, auto
repair, consulting, etc.; if I have left anyone out of this list, my humble
apologies) and see what their hours are billed at....I am BETTER!!!!!, I am
selling a LUXURY!!!!

MY shades, without a specific base (bronze) start around $3K and go UP to
$9K (not a wisteria or similar small pieced exercise in frustration).
I have a retail price list keyed to both the "Tiffany" books that my outlets
BUY. This list enables them to take custom work, screen out the lookers, and
show what can be done as to quality and color. If a client cannot see the
difference from a Sears $199.00 import and my "work, BUY the import!!!!!

I generally do not give out any specific price for a specific shade, but do
not mind offering a range.

For clients who intend a multiple purchase, or wholesalers, I usually tie in
a discount for a multiple purchase as a CREDIT toward the next one until a
real volume or wholesale level has been reached.

I am not living a life of desperation, nor do I need to constantly be
upgrading my "toys", and can afford not to take a commission or allow a
gallery or wholesaler to exploit me. It has taken a lot of years to reach
this status.....Enough before I become philosophical!
enjoy...........H


-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

Date: Monday, 03-Feb-97 08:00 AM

From: Carol Swann              \ Internet:    (seaspray@island.net) To:  
Elaine & Howard Rubin    \ Internet:    (weaver51@teleport.com)

Subject: pricing Tiffany lamps

Hi Howard,

Your lamps are beautiful!!  I have a small studio which focusses mainly on
panels and custom work for homeowners and businesses.  I also do a few lamps
for clients and am wondering how to price an intricate lamp such as you
create...I know they will be expensive, but I'd appreciate some information
from you on what you charge for mold type Tiffany lamps and how you
developed your structure...by the number of pieces?  

Thanks for the info...by the way I'm up in Canada so not likely to become a
competitor.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative


-------- REPLY, End of original message --------


--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:26:32 1997
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From: WLester380@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: 3-D
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:26:26 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.152626.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
 Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
help.
Thanks, Bill 
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:45:21 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:39:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.153921.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.152626.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

WLester380@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
>  Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
> body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
> help.
> Thanks, Bill
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


they do make a lead casting, at least for nymph like things. they should
have one for butterflies. you can also sculpt it from copper sheets like
making a tin foil weenie. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
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 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:45:30 1997
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From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:45:01 -0800
Message-ID: <199702040145.RAA04872@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
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Hi Hilary. There are many , I found one through Excite called Netter`s
abbrevia-     tion / acronym glossary. There`s even one for smiley faces
called EFF`s guide to the  internet- smiley dictionary. I`m a newbie to
the web and I also wanted to know. BFN

Rick Bruser
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 17:51:59 1997
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From: mrum@idirect.com (mike & carol)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:52:54 -0500
Message-ID: <199702032052.PAA10021@relief.idirect.com>
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One of the best films to use to get true color is Kodak Ektar.  
The other factor that may really effect your color photography is
the type and color of your flash.  I have had a flash blow out a blue-red
glass and make it look really orangey-yellow.  Yuk.  Read the little
instruction flimsy paper that comes with the film, it may help.

Carol

>Len,
>Good Heavens, you just spoke the lament of my soul..... However hard 
>I try, only too often do my photographs screw up. I have spoken to 
>more professional photographers than I have had hot dinners. All of 
>them agree just how fiendeshly difficult stained glass is to 
>photograph. Landscape photos, animals in motion, animals still, 
>human portraits - no problem. Some of them are even quite "accomplished".  
>Get me in front of a stained glass (especially my own) and everything 
>goes wrong....
>I have a 15 year old Pentax ME Super, with 3 different lenses, 
>filters and what have you.  If I pushed the camera, it might even 
>make the tea.....The film I tend to use regularly is Kodak 100, 200 
>or 400. The colour definitions just come out wrong.....
>For instance, in my latest addition to my WEB-page (St.Francis 
>Church) , the grapes in the 
>basket are supposed to be champagne coloured (by the way - they were 
>"fun" to cut and lead!!). They came out sort of non-descript....
>Len, my heart is with you. I am obviously not alone (sob).
>Any ideas folks??? What am I doing wrong???
>Elisabeth 'n Toby (the latter looking splendiferous in HIS photo on 
>the WEB :-(    )
>
>Len wrote:
> with
>decent equipement,for me photographing completed, installed works has always
>been the least satisfying aspect of the overall project effort.
>
>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
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>
*******************************************
Mike and Carol Rumak
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at:
http://web.idirect.com/~studio
*******************************************

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 18:09:56 1997
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From: Kate <103010.3020@CompuServe.COM>
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Date: 03 Feb 97 21:08:31 EST
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Please remove me from the list
Thank you,
K. McAlister

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 18:17:12 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO and others ....
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 21:16:56 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970203211645.0067d074@pop.bridge.net>
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I'm not sure what the abbreviations are called, other than acronyms ...
which is what they are called IRL (in real life) as well as on line. ;0

The smiley faces and variations are called 'emoticons', a neologism coined
on line, I think. :D

There *are* lists of them on line. A nice page of links to several lists
and even a bit of history can be found at:

http://www.sandybay.com:80/pc-web/smiley.htm

and more:

http://gene.fwi.uva.nl:80/~ketel/Misc/emoticon.html 

And since Valentine's is not far away, one might want to send a dozen red
@}>------------ (s) to one's sweetest.
;)

M.-J.

PS ... And while this has little to do with glass, perhaps, it does have to
do with *communicating* about any topic. (The asterisks, BTW, indicate
emphasis, in lieu of a boldface, italics or underline format which can't be
made in (older versions of) email and chat software.



At 07:10 PM 2/3/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>  Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.
>
>
>IMHO = in my humble opinion.
>BTW = by the way.
>:-}  = smile
>;-}  = wink and a smile
>
>etc. etc. etc.
>
>Isn't there a name for these abbreviations and a listing somewhere? They
>can get pretty obscure.
>
>Hilary
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>
>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 18:44:52 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: flipping a large panel
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:43:45 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702040243.UAA11059@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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Now we're talkin turkey..  the idea is to take the panel off the edge of the
table enough so that you hit the balance point and pivot the panel to
vertical with a crisp enough manouver so the panel has very little chance to
bend. When putting it back on the table find that same point and flop that
baby up there in one fell swoop. When this feat is accomplished with two
people you can flip any size panel that you will ever see built. I flipped
some 54 inch square panels with a guy that never did it before I told him to
think like a syncronized swimmer keeping a sheet streched out.I have no idea
why I said that but he knew what I meant and somehow it worked.You just
can't hesitate.  When the panels are big and heavy I rest them on my toes
while doing the hokey pokey. I'm sure the board thing works well but I still
go for the cheap thrills once in a while :-)

Len



>          Per the question about flipping over a large panel...
>
>          I happened to see my instructor doing this in the studio one
>          day, he used the following technique:
>
>          First he slid the panel over so that the long edge
>          was along the edge of the table.  He then carefully
>          slid (pulled) the panel out over the edge until he could
>          pivot it to an upright position.  Holding the now vertical
>          panel, he then turned around ("did the hokey pokey") 180
>          degrees, put the panel back against the edge of the table
>          and tilted it back up onto the table again (i.e. the reverse
>          of the first part of the procedure).  I hope that
>          explanation made sense.  Pivoting the panel over the edge of
>          the table puts less strain on it than just lifting up one
>          edge.  I'm sure there are limits on how big a panel you can
>          flip this way... also for a long panel you would want help.
>          Just thought I would pass along this "tip" ;-)
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 18:59:08 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Small cartoons for stained glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 21:23:36 +0000
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> While you're there check out Stained Glass Quarterly's new special
> feature article: Protective Glazing for Stained Glass Windows.  This highly
> informative article examines the findings of Inspired Partnerships's study
> of protective glazing in the stianed glass industry.

Did you notice how much its findings were just what Julie Sloan's 
been saying for years? <s> In fact, it's pretty much what she said as 
long as ten years ago ... in the Quarterly.  Not to mention, of 
course, that the "new" study's author was soundly slapped by the Park 
Service for lifting Sloan's text for his proposal for the study. 
<sigh>

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 19:24:33 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 21:23:28 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702040323.VAA12712@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
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> It's hard to beat picking glass
>in person 

That's for sure when I used to go to Hollander in Chicago they would give
you a pen some stickers and a wheeled easel and let you loose in this huge
warehouse to pick and choose whatever sheets you wanted. I felt like a kid
in a candy store. And great wholesale prices to boot. Then I'd go over Ed
Hoy's and a nattily attired person would escort me to a waiting lounge
tastefully appointed in mauve and taupe and offer me coffee while my order
was assembled. The liability you know. Phooey on that!

Len

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 20:24:25 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: flipping a large panel
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:43:59 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.134359.0>
References: <<9701038549.AA854994656@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>>
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Hi Ken,
	Thanks for the tips, I'll give it a try.  T. in Montana

Ken Lerner wrote:
> 
>           Per the question about flipping over a large panel...
> 
>           I happened to see my instructor doing this in the studio one
>           day, he used the following technique:
> 
>           First he slid the panel over so that the long edge
>           was along the edge of the table.  He then carefully
>           slid (pulled) the panel out over the edge until he could
>           pivot it to an upright position.  Holding the now vertical
>           panel, he then turned around ("did the hokey pokey") 180
>           degrees, put the panel back against the edge of the table
>           and tilted it back up onto the table again (i.e. the reverse
>           of the first part of the procedure).  I hope that
>           explanation made sense.  Pivoting the panel over the edge of
>           the table puts less strain on it than just lifting up one
>           edge.  I'm sure there are limits on how big a panel you can
>           flip this way... also for a long panel you would want help.
>           Just thought I would pass along this "tip" ;-)
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 20:35:03 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: flipping a large panel
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 20:54:35 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.135435.0>
References: <<199702040243.UAA11059@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
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Hi Len,  Sometimes it's good to go for the thrills, cheap or otherwise. 
Seriously, thanks for your tip.  T. in Montana

len alcamo wrote:
> 
> Now we're talkin turkey..  the idea is to take the panel off the edge of the
> table enough so that you hit the balance point and pivot the panel to
> vertical with a crisp enough manouver so the panel has very little chance to
> bend. When putting it back on the table find that same point and flop that
> baby up there in one fell swoop. When this feat is accomplished with two
> people you can flip any size panel that you will ever see built. I flipped
> some 54 inch square panels with a guy that never did it before I told him to
> think like a syncronized swimmer keeping a sheet streched out.I have no idea
> why I said that but he knew what I meant and somehow it worked.You just
> can't hesitate.  When the panels are big and heavy I rest them on my toes
> while doing the hokey pokey. I'm sure the board thing works well but I still
> go for the cheap thrills once in a while :-)
> 
> Len
> 
> >          Per the question about flipping over a large panel...
> >
> >          I happened to see my instructor doing this in the studio one
> >          day, he used the following technique:
> >
> >          First he slid the panel over so that the long edge
> >          was along the edge of the table.  He then carefully
> >          slid (pulled) the panel out over the edge until he could
> >          pivot it to an upright position.  Holding the now vertical
> >          panel, he then turned around ("did the hokey pokey") 180
> >          degrees, put the panel back against the edge of the table
> >          and tilted it back up onto the table again (i.e. the reverse
> >          of the first part of the procedure).  I hope that
> >          explanation made sense.  Pivoting the panel over the edge of
> >          the table puts less strain on it than just lifting up one
> >          edge.  I'm sure there are limits on how big a panel you can
> >          flip this way... also for a long panel you would want help.
> >          Just thought I would pass along this "tip" ;-)
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 21:36:11 1997
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From: Jim Jablonski <jimjab@sprintmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Copper Foil
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 21:36:34 -0800
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Old copper foil can be very useful in the garden outside.  Snails and
slugs can not slime across copper. (it gives them an electric-type
shock)
At many garden supply stores they sell 1.25" wide copper foil to keep
the slime kings off of citrus trees and such.  I think price wise, it's
over priced, but what else do you expect at a garden store?
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 21:45:28 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 00:45:23 -0500 (EST)
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In a message dated 97-02-01 17:14:10 EST, you write:

<< Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.
  >>

I had a similar, yet worse experience.  I was making a lamp during
a class.  The pattern I used had 3 dimensional panels as part of
the skirt.  Except the pattern book didn't provide the right specifications.

Nothing fit right, the instructor admitted it was a bad pattern, but we
managed to "work around it.   However there are some pretty big
solder seams in this lamp!
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 21:55:05 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 00:55:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.19558.0>
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In a message dated 97-02-01 13:54:32 EST, you write:

<< ell i know spectrum has thier glass online. though i really don't see
 the problem, once you figure out how to scan the glass, all they have to
 do is to bring it into photoshop and match the colors that way. 
  >>

I e-mailed the web master at spectrum, complimented him
on the "samples" on line and asked for more.  

He responded and said they planned to have all their product
available soon.

I suspect the others will have samples shortly as well.  I'm too
cheap to buy a sample kit(s).  I making them up as I go along.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 22:21:33 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:21:03 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.20213.0>
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In a message dated 97-02-01 14:25:59 EST, you write:

<< hat's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to 
 represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as 
 possible, whether in print or on the web.
  >>

I agree somewhat with your assessment of the technology.  Wouldn't
you say that there are also problems with 2" x 3" samples?  Certainly
there are problems with catalog descriptions of glass.

There is no substitute for seeing the glass in person, in the light.
My problem is the prices charged at my local retailer are almost
twice the cost of mail order.  I found the spectrum web site to be
very useful in terms of getting an idea of what I was buying, having
previously bought "cold" using only the catalog.  

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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 22:26:14 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:26:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.202612.0>
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In a message dated 97-02-01 23:04:51 EST, you write:

<< when you use volume, but Support your local businesses. >>

I feel as tho my local businesses should support me as well.

When I run to them with a problem.  E.g. a new solder tip,
match glass, I know ahead of time that I am going to get
badly ripped off.    The last time I bought 50-50, my local
supplier charged $8.95 for a 1 lb roll.

I find this outrageous.  I could see $5 or $6.  This support
your local retailer is a two way street.
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From owner-glass Mon Feb  3 23:42:57 1997
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From: Bubstah@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Where can one find LDPE?
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 02:42:59 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb3.214259.0>
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I like to go to radiologist offices.  Ask them to save you their waste
x-rays.  These
are generally free and work wonderfully well.  Since most of you have shared
your
thoughts and ideas with me over the last week since i've found you, I thought
I would
share this fantastic idea for making cartoon patterns for your glass
projects.

Enjoy..  Bubstah
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 02:20:45 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 05:26:33 +0000
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> I agree somewhat with your assessment of the technology.  Wouldn't
> you say that there are also problems with 2" x 3" samples?  Certainly
> there are problems with catalog descriptions of glass.

Yes, of course. Everything but the full sheet right in front of you 
is an approximation. Photographs even more so.

Albert

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 05:02:27 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO and others ....
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 07:30:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.33054.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970203211645.0067d074@pop.bridge.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

Thanks M.-J....which is an acronym for what?
> 
> I'm not sure what the abbreviations are called, other than acronyms ...
> which is what they are called IRL (in real life) as well as on line. ;0
> 
> The smiley faces and variations are called 'emoticons', a neologism coined
> on line, I think. :D
> 
> There *are* lists of them on line. A nice page of links to several lists
> and even a bit of history can be found at:
> 
> http://www.sandybay.com:80/pc-web/smiley.htm
> 
> and more:
> 
> http://gene.fwi.uva.nl:80/~ketel/Misc/emoticon.html
> 
> And since Valentine's is not far away, one might want to send a dozen red
> @}>------------ (s) to one's sweetest.
> ;)
> 
> M.-J.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 05:42:57 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:11:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.41124.0>
References: <<199702031631.QAA03773@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

It is an interesting thought, this collection of patterns, but there are
problems from my standpoint. First of all, I don't really do anything
small, so the book would have to be at least 3 feet square. That size is
so awkward on the library shelves...;-}

Then there is the matter of subject. One of my latest pieces that I have
really liked when it was done was a commemorative panel for my cousin
who just celebrated the 30th anniversary of his kidney transplant. (He
is one of the oldest living transplants, BTW.) But, as much as I liked
the panel, who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
weird)

Am I being too picky?? Or are these minor details?

Barragingly yours,
Hilary

P.S. Elisabeth, Scratch Toby behind the ears and tell him everything is
ok. It's just the humans again.

> ...A collection of Glass @ Bungi "ideal" pattern/s, politically &
> linguistically "correct", .... hang on, I better stop, before my
> imagination and wicked wild sense of humour flies away with me.
> But, hang on there... WHY NOT ??
> ...Hey Toby, hide your head and wait for the barrage..!!
> Elisabeth 'n (hiding) Toby
> ...
> How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we
> publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis
> would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints,
> and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.
> 
> Phil7
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 05:57:22 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:03:08 +0000
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> who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
> a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
> weird)

Ee-yew! Reminds me of when I was a kid and tonsillectomies were all 
the rage and your friends at school would bring theirs in a bottle to 
show-n-tell. 

Sounds like a great cover for Common Ground: Glass! <g>

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 05:57:26 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO and others ....
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:58:51 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970204085524.0068cc44@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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At 07:30 AM 2/4/97 -0400, Hilary wrote:

>Thanks M.-J....which is an acronym for what?

LOL ... How about Multiple-Joys?

Definitely *not* Mary-Jane, but, perhaps, Mary-Jeanette. 

;|

>> 
>> I'm not sure what the abbreviations are called, other than acronyms ...
>> which is what they are called IRL (in real life) as well as on line. ;0
>> 
>> The smiley faces and variations are called 'emoticons', a neologism coined
>> on line, I think. :D
>> 
>> There *are* lists of them on line. A nice page of links to several lists
>> and even a bit of history can be found at:
>> 
>> http://www.sandybay.com:80/pc-web/smiley.htm
>> 
>> and more:
>> 
>> http://gene.fwi.uva.nl:80/~ketel/Misc/emoticon.html
>> 
>> And since Valentine's is not far away, one might want to send a dozen red
>> @}>------------ (s) to one's sweetest.
>> ;)
>> 
>> M.-J.
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 06:30:42 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns/kidneys/hearts
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:30:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.4307.0>
References: <<199702041356.IAA19826@ns.computer.net>>
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On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:

> > who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
> > a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
> > weird)
> 
> Ee-yew! Reminds me of when I was a kid and tonsillectomies were all 
> the rage and your friends at school would bring theirs in a bottle to 
> show-n-tell. 

Hilary's comments about "who else would want" were my thoughts exactly
when I considered my favorite originals.....

You know how they say, "Everytime Merle Haggard gets his heart broken, he
cries all the way to the bank?" That means he is inspired to write and
record a really great song. If it works for Merle, why not you and I?

My favorite panels came to me while I was driving, on the verge of tears.
They jumped into my inner eye, more or less complete....a broken heart,
surrounded by orange and yellow flames, ice glass in the center where the
break is wide and in more white hot flames behind, bevels for molten drops
below, all set in a royal, hammered sea.....

The other heart is also flaming, with a great iridescent black dagger
drawing a gush of purple blood. The action floats in a turquoise hammered
circle which itself is floating within a rectangle of clear baroque. Yes,
very cathartic. Didn't even have to do the one with the exploding heart,
that's how well it worked for drawing out the poison! 

But, no, I don't think anybody is gonna wanna run out and reproduce these.

Mary







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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 06:36:59 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:54:55 +0000
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Thanks Lee,
 Must admit, I have been wondering too
What about Chartres?? There is still room for you....
Elisabeth 'n Toby

From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 06:37:02 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:54:49 +0000
Message-ID: <199702041436.OAA02612@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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 Hi Elenie (and All),
I think an awful lot of people are very pleased to see a regular 
input from you and delighted to see you in our "fold".
Not wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons here,  I am hoping 
that you might be able to dispel past niggles from  a number of our 
Group, that of contacting Warner-Crivellaro to try and prise out a 
Catalog from your Company in the FIRST place. If I remember correctly 
from thess last 12 months, there has been a certain amount of grumblings 
about the difficulties and retisence by Warner-Crivellaro to part 
with their catalogues to us individually. My own last full catalogue 
dates back to 1994 and the latest "Mini-Catalog" from 1995 which has 
kindly been forwarded to me from a member of Bungi in USA (who is 
coming over to UK in a month or so).
Could you perhaps enlighten us what the situation is now, and thereby 
- also perhaps - win back the favour of some disgruntled potential 
customers (especially in USA - never mind us poor relations in 
UK...).
Hope I haven't put you on a spot - that was not my intention.
Elisabeth 'n Toby
Just want to clear things up!
If you think Warner-Crivellaro is only known for its unique bevels then
you really don't know us too well! (snip) So if you have any questions, you know
how to reach me.
Elenie
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 06:37:03 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Prices..was photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:54:49 +0000
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Hi Jerry (and all...)
....(sigh...) You are singing my song......
BTW, Sorry to see that you won't / can't join us on the Chartres trip 
in April. Nevertheless, how about joining  us for dinner before the 
trip so you can get to meet the people from USA and them you???
Might you be able to make it to Breachwood Green (other side of Luton 
Airport)?? Let's discuss off-Group...
Elisabeth 'n Toby

. It's hard to beat picking glass
in person, unless you're sticking to single colour or small pattern bits.

(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
is beyond me. Quick rule of thumb, which works for stained glass too: Take
UK price in pounds. Replace pounds by dollars to get approximate US price.
(around a third cheaper). Even after allowing for shipping and
duty and VAT it can still work out cheaper, especially if you can wait for
surface shipping - a *lot* cheaper for books, which are zero rated for VAT
and duty.)   


-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 06:50:45 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:44:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.44454.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.194523.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-02-01 17:14:10 EST, you write:
> 
> << Anyone have a comment?  I'm ripped by being ripped off by a poor artist.
>   >>
> 
> I had a similar, yet worse experience.  I was making a lamp during
> a class.  The pattern I used had 3 dimensional panels as part of
> the skirt.  Except the pattern book didn't provide the right specifications.
> 
> Nothing fit right, the instructor admitted it was a bad pattern, but we
> managed to "work around it.   However there are some pretty big
> solder seams in this lamp!
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


this is where decorative soldering comes in handy, put it on all the
seams inclucind the fat ones, and it might look like you meant it to be
that way.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 07:21:26 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Catalogs
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:23:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.52310.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I had heard heresome time back that there was a problem getting a WC 
catalog. I just requesedt one from their web page and got it within a few 
days. I was thrilled with it. Lots of tongue-in-cheek humor (like the old 
Beagle brothers software for Apple IIe's).
Over all the catalog reads like a good book and I will be sure to order 
from them to spread my business around.

http://www.catalogsite.com/Gen/Warner_P1.html

Linda Campbell

Toby wrote:
<Not wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons here,  I am hoping
that you might be able to dispel past niggles from  a number of our
Group, that of contacting Warner-Crivellaro to try and prise out a
Catalog from your Company in the FIRST place. If I remember correctly
from thess last 12 months, there has been a certain amount of grumblings
about the difficulties and retisence by Warner-Crivellaro to part
with their catalogues to us individually. My own last full catalogue
dates back to 1994 and the latest "Mini-Catalog" from 1995 which > snip

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end

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 07:46:41 1997
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From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:51:43 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.35143.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.151050.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> 
> >  Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.
> 
> IMHO = in my humble opinion.
> BTW = by the way.
> :-}  = smile
> ;-}  = wink and a smile
> 
> etc. etc. etc.
> 
> Isn't there a name for these abbreviations and a listing somewhere? They
> can get pretty obscure.
> 
> Hilary
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Hilary, FWIW (for what it's worth) i guess these are a good short hand 
- you can make a joke - and insure the recipient knows it's supposed to
be in jest by putting on the grin.  People also make pictures with the
punc. marks - some of the scuba folks have fish that would be right at
home on Mike S's "Poesidon's Lamp" (did it ever get a final name? great
piece!)  I even saw a :-) type face as a suncatcher at a show recently. 
Linn
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 10:42:24 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: sample boxes
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 97 10:38:29 -0500
Message-ID: <199702041841.KAA26898@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

IMHO (by now, most of you do indeed know what this translates to) if you are
doing panels, suncatchers and the likes of same, that are dependent on
outside light, the exotic hand-made glasses and sample boxes of them, may
not be a necessity. If you use a lot of cathedrals, new sheet antiques,
where intense color is wanted and reflection of color is not a major concern
, then the samples of MACHINE made glass should indicate fairly closely what
the actual sheet contains and will look like.

My beginning students (a small lamp first) use Spectrum,(colors ARE chosen
from a sample box) as they progress, I spend time with them showing the
properties of the hand-mades for a "larger" Tiffany style shade. I
discourage buying by "price". 

I use mainly opalescents, (currently all yogo stipples, although a have a
large inventory of curious bullseye and uro) that may have 3 to 5 colors
hand swirled and a 2x4" piece will probably NOT show more than a few of the
colors that are present in the 24x36" sheet.

My shades show GOOD color when lit (my first emphasis) and do not loose much
when not lit....care must be used to avoid them looking "muddy". Machine
made glasses will not have the life of an exotic handmade sheet.

My shop (dark most of time) has a large light table with 24 bulbs on 3
dimmers to view a large sheet as I want to and will be using it, a smaller
light table to cut on, and easels to fit on the big table to view the cut
shade before assembly in the order the repeats will be assembled.

the above is a lot of verbage to say that YES for machine made glasses, and
no for limited, or multi-colored handmade glass, but the samples of the
handmades will give you a look at the possibilites. If you mail order, you
do get the next sheet in the rack....may or may not look like the sample you
have pondered, dreamed of, mentally used in your "treasure", drooled over,
and agonized over due to spending more than you ever have before on a
"piece" of glass. Then, of course, how many pieces will it be when it is
delivered (do not dispair, you gotta cut it anyway).

Enough running off at the keyboard....need to build a lamp.

Enjoy.......H 
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 13:16:56 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:19:22 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.141922.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970203012613.00687b38@pop.bridge.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M.-J. wrote:
> 
> Where can this cutter be found, please?
> 
> MJ

One brand name is Leponitt Mosaic Glass Cutter and Hudson has that 
brand.. another mosaic cutter can be found at Delphi in their catalog .

> 
> Oh, and  I *think* smalti can be had through Dal-Tile ...
> they do have two types of glass mosaic tile ... one is called Kolorines,
> I'm not sure about the other, but they have a lot of variety.
> 
> <snip>>> 2 cutting wheels and is supposed to "easily nip glass into
> geometric shapes".
> 
> >> It seems easier than ordering the Italian glass smalti which I last
> heard was available from one person in the U.S.
> 
> >>
> >> Diane
> >>
> >
> >Yes, I use it.. Also i keep it at my cutting table, I nip off  the areas
> > of my glass is the break line was not close to the pattern. this saves
> >me from grinding all that.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 13:33:31 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering fumes/eyes
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:36:58 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.143658.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.9643.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

Harold De Vos wrote:
> 
> Before glass work I used to do a lot of precise close up
> soldering of small electronic circuit boards. Several times
> I got so close that my eyes, especially my left,  would get
> slightly irritated by the heated flux fumes.  Also, I would get
> flu-like breathing problems.
> 
> Within six months,  I started going blind in that eye and
> before I could get in for the eye appointment, it progressed
> so far that I could barely see bright images. The story ends
> well, I can see just as good as before but I now have a
> new plastic lens as a replacement for my natural lens.
> 
> The flu like problems also stopped after some cursory ventilation.
> 
> According to the doc,  this could happen naturally, but usually to
> much older folks than I!  Like I, he is also convinced
> it was related to both the heat and the toxic fumes, but mainly
> just my slovenly poor soldering habits.  I even held solder in
> my mouth as a sort of third hand!  Phew, what I dummy!
> 
> So take the obvious cautions folks! I doubt that most of you are
> that ignorant, but on the other hand,  do take it seriously!
> Bud

Bud,
I hope you are doing better...Was the plastic lens an  
surgical insertion...  
I might have been cleaning my glass with liquid dish soap and water, 
which might have caused the scratches to the lens.. But I am more 
worried about the eye conditon you have.. glass lenses can be replaced.. 
hope you are doing well and Thanks. 
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 14:33:15 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:36:20 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.153620.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.94415.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Warner-Crivellaro wrote:
> 
> Jim Jablonski wrote:
> >
> > I am new to this group and have fun reading your comments.
> > I started Stained Glass a year ago, and after 4 months the local glass
> > store went out of buisness.
> > So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
> > at price, selection and quality?
> >
> > By the way,  Mike Savad said " you can tune a guitar, but you can't
> > tuna fish."
> > Did you know the way to tuna fish is to play up 'n down it's scales? :)
> >
> > Thx in advance for your future resonses.
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> Just want to clear things up!
> If you think Warner-Crivellaro is only known for its unique bevels then
> you really don't know us too well! We also sell our own custom designed
> filigree, castings, stencils and more. Not to mention all the tools,
> supplies, lamps, glass, books that you can order and much more. We have
> variety as well as great prices! Categorically, we sell 20% off
> everything and frequently 50% off what other suppliers sell their items.
> Our sales flyers always have something exciting and new on sale. I mean
> how many times are you going to buy goggles? We offer great sale items
> on filigree, bevels, castings, etc. on already low prices (think of all
> the wonderful gifts you could make!). I just want to conclude by saying
> that Warner-Crivellaro is a very large company and our inventory is
> huge! You will always find what you need. We are always very well
> stocked in just about everything. So if you have any questions, you know
> how to reach me.
> Elenie

Hi, if it was me who wrote so highly of your bevels, I owe you an 
apology. Yes, I order many of your products, and yes, you have a great 
product line and a very nice staff (Last year UPS lost my order, and 
your company worked with me and even went beyond to trace the order and 
have UPS replace it--folks, this is country living at Christmas), I 
guess at being a catalog shopper, I overlook the common articles and I 
was guily of that (like the regular but good prices on glass, solder, 
foil-- although I swear you have the best copper patina in your 
Classique Brand) but I am greatly pleased by your customed bevels, it 
was only yesterday (2/3) that I took down the Partridge in the pear 
tree.... To see the beveled partridge gave me a nice feeling through the 
winter country scene.. Sorry for not including all of your products, I 
guess I was guilty of taking them for granted, but your bevels  AH!

> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 14:56:18 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:24:25 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.132425.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.35143.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> ... I even saw a :-) type face as a suncatcher at a show recently.
> Linn

Oh, wow! I wouldn't want to make it myself, but I most certainly would
buy one for my husband for Xmas!

Hilary
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 14:56:41 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:25:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.13258.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.44454.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> this is where decorative soldering comes in handy, put it on all the
> seams inclucind the fat ones, and it might look like you meant it to be
> that way.
> 
> ---Mike Savad

Way back in the old days when I was a costume designer in the theater,
we had a much used saying:

If you can't fix it, feature it.

We "featured" a lot of stuff back then, and I continue to "feature" a
lot of stuff now...'specially when it comes to solder! <g>

Hilary
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 14:57:24 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:25:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.132545.0>
References: <<199702041356.IAA19826@ns.computer.net>>
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Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
> a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
> weird)
>
> Sounds like a great cover for Common Ground: Glass! <g>
> 
> Albert

Trust me, Albert, as much as I liked the piece, as much as my cousin was
totally taken with it, as a cover it just wouldn' fly. It would be the
sort of cover that you would wake up some morning in the future and
start singing many choruses of "What Was I Thinking?."

But, if you want to entertain your brain for a minute, though it took me
days of deliberation, think about color choices. I laugh about it now,
but it wasn't funny then. Needless to say, the yellow family was
out!<vbg>

Hilary
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 14:58:44 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:02:13 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.16213.0>
References: <<3.0.1.32.19970203195726.00689728@pop.bridge.net>>
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Precedence: bulk

M.-J. wrote:
> 
> Jerry wrote:
> 
> >(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
> >locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
> >the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
> >is beyond me.
> <snip>

Not to change the subject, but what are your glass manufacturers like... 
Are the European glasses different from the American 
manufacturers...What are your colors like?
Thanks
> 
> It's the size of the market.
> 
> MJ
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:01:40 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:55:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.125535.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.35143.0>>
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Rio Grande Valley Museum wrote:
> 
> Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> >
> > >  Excuse me Howard, can you tell me what  "IMHO" means?  Thanks.
> >
> > IMHO = in my humble opinion.
> > BTW = by the way.
> > :-}  = smile
> > ;-}  = wink and a smile
> >
> > etc. etc. etc.
> >
> > Isn't there a name for these abbreviations and a listing somewhere? They
> > can get pretty obscure.
> >
> > Hilary
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> Hilary, FWIW (for what it's worth) i guess these are a good short hand
> - you can make a joke - and insure the recipient knows it's supposed to
> be in jest by putting on the grin.  People also make pictures with the
> punc. marks - some of the scuba folks have fish that would be right at
> home on Mike S's "Poesidon's Lamp" (did it ever get a final name? great
> piece!)  I even saw a :-) type face as a suncatcher at a show recently.
> Linn
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the lamp sort of got a name, though i'm still iffy on some of the other
names... i'm sure something will come to mind sooner or later.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:01:49 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:05:25 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.16525.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.152626.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

WLester380@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
>  Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
> body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
> help.
> Thanks, Bill

Bill, 
I have some lawn stand abouts to do this year... There are leaded 
castings available...Also some companies offer jewel (glass) bodies...If 
you need more help, leave me know
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:05:46 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:09:13 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.16913.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.153921.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> WLester380@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> > I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
> >  Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
> > body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
> > help.
> > Thanks, Bill

Bill,

There are alot of lead castings available..I just ordered 2 of at least 
8 different designs from Anything in Stained Glass.  They even have a 
lady butterfly???
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> they do make a lead casting, at least for nymph like things. they should
> have one for butterflies. you can also sculpt it from copper sheets like
> making a tin foil weenie.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:09:53 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Copper Foil
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:13:22 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.161322.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.133634.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jim Jablonski wrote:
> 
> Old copper foil can be very useful in the garden outside.  Snails and
> slugs can not slime across copper. (it gives them an electric-type
> shock)
> At many garden supply stores they sell 1.25" wide copper foil to keep
> the slime kings off of citrus trees and such.  I think price wise, it's
> over priced, but what else do you expect at a garden store?

Thank you for the reminder, sometimes I get one tracked, yes, copper 
foil is good around the flower beds to keep slugs away-  recycle
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:11:57 1997
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From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Tue,  4 Feb 97 16:11:31 -0700
Message-ID: <m0vru1V-000Li4C@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1997Feb4.16525.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
> WLester380@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
> Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
> body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
> help.
> Thanks, Bill

i went to a local glass blower and had him make up some solid handblown  
butterfly bodies with antennas. i then wrapped a couple of bands of foil  
around them, and attached the wings to the bands. i used slumping glass  
(1/16" thick) to make the wings so that they would appear to be very light  
and thin.

---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 15:19:01 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:22:23 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.162223.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.41124.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> 
> It is an interesting thought, this collection of patterns, but there are
> problems from my standpoint. First of all, I don't really do anything
> small, so the book would have to be at least 3 feet square. That size is
> so awkward on the library shelves...;-}
> 
> Then there is the matter of subject. One of my latest pieces that I have
> really liked when it was done was a commemorative panel for my cousin
> who just celebrated the 30th anniversary of his kidney transplant. (He
> is one of the oldest living transplants, BTW.) But, as much as I liked
> the panel, who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
> a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
> weird)
> 
> Am I being too picky?? Or are these minor details?
> 
> Barragingly yours,
> Hilary
> 
> P.S. Elisabeth, Scratch Toby behind the ears and tell him everything is
> ok. It's just the humans again.

Hi, I am new to this group, why would Elizabeth scratch Toby behind the 
ears..Remember, I am 3hounds.
I liked Elizabeth's comments but thought Toby 

> > ...A collection of Glass @ Bungi "ideal" pattern/s, politically &
> > linguistically "correct", .... hang on, I better stop, before my
> > imagination and wicked wild sense of humour flies away with me.
> > But, hang on there... WHY NOT ??
> > ...Hey Toby, hide your head and wait for the barrage..!!
> > Elisabeth 'n (hiding) Toby


> > How about each member of the group draw up their own pattern, and we
> > publish it as the Bungi Glass Atlas of Correct Pattern.  Ole' Al Lewis
> > would edit, Elizabeth would make comments, Mike Savad would give hints,
> > and everyone can't complain because we asked for their input.
> >
> > Phil7
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 18:04:49 1997
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From: CUTLER@Wittenberg.EDU
To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM
Subject: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:04:00 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.1640.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi. Bob Cutler here.  I've just finished two mosaics.  I made one
according to the instructions in one of the books on the subject.
The pansy pattern displayed on the cover.  It was challenging,
fun, and I will most certainly try it again.  I built my own
form, by the way.  I am very pleased with the result. 

The trouble with this pattern book - and
others, I imagine - is that it really doesn't encourage the
use of those pesky scraps which I refuse to throw away :) :).
SO since I own a pair of the mosaic glass cutters, and wanted to
use them, I decided to experiment:
I bought a hexagonal patio stone.  I bought a bag of Thin-Set
which is used to lay ceramic tile over concrete surfaces. I gathered
my scraps and trimmed them to suit and hatched a pattern on the spot
After laying out a rough design, I prepared the thin-set and 
applied it to the stone, followed by the glass.  It was a bit messy
but that was my fault for using too much thin-set.  I made sure that
there was an empty space between each piece of glass.  After a
bit of time called for on the thin-set package I applied grout.
I like the result well enough to try again.  It takes less time,
allows the use of the cutters, and is as much fun as the more formal
patterns.

In short I love the cutters.  
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 18:18:21 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:09:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.16946.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.202612.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I can't speak for all businesses, only the ones I deal with. Most places
I go and spend my money, especially if I am a repeat customer, I expect
some accomodation. The main studio I deal with is negotiable, and is
willing to move on price, if they expect me to buy. I live in the New
York Metro area, so there is no lack of competition. If you have no
choices of vendors, I concede your point. But try to bargain. If they
know you can get a deal elsewhere, most GOOD business people will rather
make a reduced profit sale, RATHER THAN NO SALE AT ALL. A good studio
makes money off their labor, besides supplies. If they are ripping you
off, I don't know that they should get your business, but it you don't
protest....   caveat emptor   
<snip>
> When I run to them with a problem.  E.g. a new solder tip,
> match glass, I know ahead of time that I am going to get
> badly ripped off.    The last time I bought 50-50, my local
> supplier charged $8.95 for a 1 lb roll.
> 
> I find this outrageous.  I could see $5 or $6.  This support
> your local retailer is a two way street.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:05:41 1997
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: retailing...
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 97 20:02:04 -0500
Message-ID: <199702050404.UAA17196@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

This is Howard (of course)

I sell supplies from an unlisted business and no advertising.

I will do all I can and devote as much time as needed to a customer/student
who does not pick me apart for a few pennies. When I get savvy shoppers who
feel everything is negotiable or point out that a square foot of Spectrum is
cheaper 135 miles away in Portland, you all should be aware enough of my
attitude to GUESS what my reply is! Because I sell a lot of one-time hand
made glass, I usually date the left over pieces and mark their name on the
sheet should they need a bit more....most students will eventually buy the
whole sheet as they get more familiar with color phasing and start to build
up their own inventory.

My students are welcome and have access to me during times that are
convenient to them ( I have no posted hours)....I do expect them to be
prompt and after about 30 minutes leeway, I usually darken my shop or do not
answer the door...a few times and they get the idea that my time is also
important.

For most of my years of "glassing", there has been at least one other source
withih 15 miles, and I still kept my people and in a small town area, have a
reputation for being fair and caring. In my prior life I had been an east
coast peddler (successful), so I do know how the game is played and will
gladly participate if encouraged.

enjoy...........H

--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:11:59 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:29:44 +0000
Message-ID: <199702050411.EAA14661@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Hilary  and Mike (and All)

... or how to cheat elegantly and get away with bloody murder!
Just what I tell my students (selectively - of course!)
Love it!!    ;-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

> this is where decorative soldering comes in handy, put it on all the
> seams inclucind the fat ones, and it might look like you meant it to be
> that way.
> 
> ---Mike Savad

Way back in the old days when I was a costume designer in the theater,
we had a much used saying:

If you can't fix it, feature it.

We "featured" a lot of stuff back then, and I continue to "feature" a
lot of stuff now...'specially when it comes to solder! <g>

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:12:00 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Catalogs
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:29:44 +0000
Message-ID: <199702050411.EAA14658@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Linda,
That's absolutely great!
The comment came from me.
I was just seeing the name, remembering  comments in the context 
of  an "old chestnut" and wanted to find out what has changed.
As I said in posting addressed to Elenie,  no criticism intended, 
just clarification...
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Linda wrote:
I had heard heresome time back that there was a problem getting a WC 
catalog. I just requesedt one from their web page and got it within a few 
days. I was thrilled with it. Lots of tongue-in-cheek humor (like the old 
Beagle brothers software for Apple IIe's).
Over all the catalog reads like a good book and I will be sure to order 
from them to spread my business around.

http://www.catalogsite.com/Gen/Warner_P1.html



----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:12:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:29:44 +0000
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Dear Hilary & Albert,

MINOR details, my friend, minor details....
The Kidney Transplant Unit at No. 30 High Street, Anytown, UK, should 
be so darned lucky to be adorned with such a stained glass memorium.
What about your cousin?
Congratulations! That''s quite a feat! Toby requests you should 
gently scratch your cousin's ears in return and say "snuffle". As 
regards kidneys floating about in stained glass, I too have my 
"Waterloo".  I was asked to design a waterfall for an architect 
(together with another 4 panels of totally different designs).
Waterfall, heh! Water is so difficult to capture in glass, especially 
a water FALL.  It just happened to coincide with the illness and death 
of Toby's great aunt Victoria, so "Victoria Falls" came about. I 
still cringe about this particular stained glass panel today; the 
colours are awful, the design questionable, the whole thing a mess. 
There were more tears pouring over this dreadful design than "Water 
Fall". It wasn't much helped by the fact that Victoria's twin-brother  couldn't 
cope and literally died of a broken heart 30 days later. My work-shop 
was awash.
Oh God, what a mess!
That's a stained glass that most definitely will NOT be offered into 
the Atlas!!
Laugh, if you must!
One day I will creep up to this place and secretively remove this 
particular stained glass panel and replace it with something 
better.... It's one panel I find difficult to call my own.
I suppose we all have to have one  like that.....
Elisabeth 'n Toby


> who else among us has use for a "30" floating in a graphic of
> a kidney??? (trust me, it looks better than it sounds, albeit still very
> weird)
>
> Sounds like a great cover for Common Ground: Glass! <g>
> 
> Albert

Trust me, Albert, as much as I liked the piece, as much as my cousin was
totally taken with it, as a cover it just wouldn' fly. It would be the
sort of cover that you would wake up some morning in the future and
start singing many choruses of "What Was I Thinking?."

But, if you want to entertain your brain for a minute, though it took me
days of deliberation, think about color choices. I laugh about it now,
but it wasn't funny then. Needless to say, the yellow family was
out!<vbg
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:12:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:29:44 +0000
Message-ID: <199702050411.EAA14683@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Precedence: bulk

Hi Gloria,
Maybe it might still be in the Bungi Archives somewhere, but quite a 
number of months ago I posted a "historical rambling" to the effect 
of that the glass manufacturing (for stained glass) died in UK with the 
Advent of Oliver Cromwell. He was was the fellow who went about 
smashing up churches in UK. He didn't only smash up churches, he also 
smashed up and destroyed the manufacturers who made ornamentations 
for the churches, i.e. especially and including  stained glass 
artists studios and glass making studios/workshops. The stained glass 
"industry" in UK never really recovered from this devastation and many 
glass making techniques were lost forever.Compensations were then 
brought into the UK from elsewhere in Europe, especially the 
Flemish/Dutch and German artists. But don't forget, they too suffered 
the vagaries of wars and destructions. A re-birth of sorts in UK 
really only happened in the 19th Century with William Morris. Since 
when there are a couple of British Glass manufacturers producing 
glass for the stained glass industry. But a couple only. But the majority of glass we 
use today are imported from USA, Germany, France, Belgium and 
now Poland. Slowly and often painfully, we are trying to reconstruct 
destroyed past history and bring it into context of the 20th and 21st 
Century.The impact of Tiffany in Britain was quite substantial, not 
so much  in his designs and flamboyance,( which somehow doesn't appear 
to fit well with the British "pallet"), - the conservative Brits still 
find him "over the top", but much more resulting in a new surge of historical 
interest in the stained glass tradition and its revival. John Piper 
and Patrick Reyntiens - the 2 giants in Britain of stained glass of 
the 20th Century, never quite reached the emotional "common man" chord. Too 
academic, too remote, too dry, too abstract - I just don't know. What 
has caught the "common man's" imagination in Britain is the revival 
of the Arts & Crafts Movement, Victorian and Art Nouveau stained 
glass. I myself have been "lauded" for my Arts & Crafts Movement 
interptretations, before I even knew what the term meant. I sit here 
in betwixt and between, often slightly bewildered by my education 
of Swedish and Scandinavian design and aim for simplicity and force 
of simple statements and structures, and most of all - colours.Quite 
frankly, my Swedish education just did not extend to cover the 
British Arts & Crafts Movement.... however extensive that education was.
In Britain, people who like stained glass and chose it as something 
they want to live with, still don't know what they want and why, as 
long as it cannot be interpreted as something "over the top".
My students come all eager on their first day to my courses - they 
want to make a Tiffany-style lamp (you know! the sort off thing you 
just make up in 10 minutes or so!! Nothing to it!) When I discuss it 
with them as an object for them to have in their living room, to 
switch on and off, to live with, they "turn turtle" and back out. 
They like the idea of making one, but they can't quite accept the 
idea of "living" with one. For flamboyance and excuberance of 
coloured glass we have to look outside UK. It's a fascinating facet 
to watch, observe and study for someone like myself, but bewildering 
and often confusing to work with.
Dunno here, hope I have given you the "flavour" of stained glass 
past and present here in Europe. I work mainly in lead, which is not 
to say that I don't follow the copper-foil people very closely. 
History is immensly important, as is attempted destruction of 
history. Stained glass just managed to avoid total extinction in UK, 
but it is still trying to find its way and to find its role....
Elisabeth 'n Toby (2 lost souls in UK)

M.-J. wrote:
> 
> Jerry wrote:
> 
> >(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
> >locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
> >the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
> >is beyond me.
> <snip>

Not to change the subject, but what are your glass manufacturers like... 
Are the European glasses different from the American 
manufacturers...What are your colours like .>
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 20:54:54 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Castles
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:51:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb4.125143.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I am searching for a pattern for a castle.  Not the fairy tale
looking type, but realistic looking.  Does anyone have one or know where
I can find one?   Bonnie
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From owner-glass Tue Feb  4 23:29:16 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 02:14:31 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.101431.0>
References: <<199702041436.OAA02612@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd also be interested in recieving a catalog from this source. Mary
Austin  801 Merry Lane Greenwood, IN 46142    diamonds@juno.com




On Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:54:49 +0000 "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk> writes:
> Hi Elenie (and All),
>I think an awful lot of people are very pleased to see a regular 
>input from you and delighted to see you in our "fold".
>Not wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons here,  I am hoping 
>that you might be able to dispel past niggles from  a number of our 
>Group, that of contacting Warner-Crivellaro to try and prise out a 
>Catalog from your Company in the FIRST place. If I remember correctly 
>from thess last 12 months, there has been a certain amount of 
>grumblings 
>about the difficulties and retisence by Warner-Crivellaro to part 
>with their catalogues to us individually. My own last full catalogue 
>dates back to 1994 and the latest "Mini-Catalog" from 1995 which has 
>kindly been forwarded to me from a member of Bungi in USA (who is 
>coming over to UK in a month or so).
>Could you perhaps enlighten us what the situation is now, and thereby 
>- also perhaps - win back the favour of some disgruntled potential 
>customers (especially in USA - never mind us poor relations in 
>UK...).
>Hope I haven't put you on a spot - that was not my intention.
>Elisabeth 'n Toby
>Just want to clear things up!
>If you think Warner-Crivellaro is only known for its unique bevels 
>then
>you really don't know us too well! (snip) So if you have any 
>questions, you know
>how to reach me.
>Elenie
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 02:50:32 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass safety online
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 05:56:19 +0000
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Say, everyone, I just learned that Monona Rossol's outfit, Arts, 
Crafts and Theater Safety is now online ... and it's a pretty 
impressive site! As the home page says, "if you are looking for professional
     information about the hazards posed by toxic materials and
     dangerous equipment used in art and theater, you have found the
     right place!"

There's even a search engine for MSDSs! You can just enter the 
chemical you need information on ... and look it up!

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 04:47:19 1997
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From: Elsie Turqman <ElsieTurqman@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:Scratched glasses
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:46:55 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.124655.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 Gloria

The liquid dish soap probably didn't scratch your glasses.  If you dried
them with paper towels the reinforcing fibers in the paper probably did the
scratching.  I found this out after ruining a new pair of lenses.  Most of
the paper towels on the market are advertising how strong they are, that's
because they are totally paper anymore.  I don't know what they are but they
scratch plastic.  Dry your lenses with clean soft cotton and old dish towel
or old diaper, (yes they still make cloth diapers and they have many uses.

Elsie
>
>Bud,
>I hope you are doing better...Was the plastic lens an  
>surgical insertion...  
>I might have been cleaning my glass with liquid dish soap and water, 
>which might have caused the scratches to the lens.. But I am more 
>worried about the eye conditon you have.. glass lenses can be replaced.. 
>hope you are doing well and Thanks. 
 >

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 06:17:08 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vs89M-0001BGa; Wed, 5 Feb 97 06:16 PST
X-Path: tiac.net!phil7
From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Atlas
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 08:58:11 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.05811.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

My lovely, and self punishing wife, Cindy, says she'll print the Atlas. 
Maybe not called the Atlas, but whatever.  She's a part-time printer, 
with a flair for quality printing.  

If enough of us are interested, why not.

Who'll get the ball rolling?

Don't forget the hot glass! Let's make it for all glass artists.

Phil7

P.S. am I getting in hip deep?

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 07:38:54 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 10:32:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.53228.0>
References: <<1997Feb5.124655.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elsie Turqman wrote:
> 
>  Gloria
> 
> The liquid dish soap probably didn't scratch your glasses.  If you dried
> them with paper towels the reinforcing fibers in the paper probably did the
> scratching.  I found this out after ruining a new pair of lenses.  Most of
> the paper towels on the market are advertising how strong they are, that's
> because they are totally paper anymore.  I don't know what they are but they
> scratch plastic.  Dry your lenses with clean soft cotton and old dish towel
> or old diaper, (yes they still make cloth diapers and they have many uses.
> 
> Elsie
> >
> >Bud,
> >I hope you are doing better...Was the plastic lens an
> >surgical insertion...
> >I might have been cleaning my glass with liquid dish soap and water,
> >which might have caused the scratches to the lens.. But I am more
> >worried about the eye conditon you have.. glass lenses can be replaced..
> >hope you are doing well and Thanks.
>  >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


and of course there's reg. tissues. the other thing that might have
scratched them is the grinder. and spray that come out either has tiny
chips of glass, or powder suspended in water. once wiped off that will
scratch too.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 07:47:53 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vs9ZP-0001Fra; Wed, 5 Feb 97 07:47 PST
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:49:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.54944.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

So sorry folks, I was wrong about getting a copy of warner-criv. from the 
web page so fast. It was Whittemore-Durgin and I love their catalog. It's 
full of wit and things I haven't seen elsewhere. Hope you will check it 
out.

http://www.penrose.com/glass/


Linda Campbell


begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
M>)\^(BX/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0`
M`@````(``@`!!) &``@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/
M`0```#T`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC
M;VT`4TU44 !G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT`````'@`", $````%````4TU44 ``
M```>``,P`0```! ```!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT``P`5# $````#`/X/!@``
M`!X``3 !````$@```"=G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VTG`````@$+, $````5````
M4TU44#I'3$%34T!"54Y'22Y#3TT``````P``.0`````+`$ Z`0````(!]@\!
M````! ````````-\*P$(@ <`& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E
M`#$(`02 `0`;````3W!P<RP@22!W87,@=W)O;F<@86)O=70@5T,`Y @!!8 #
M``X```#-!P(`!0`*`#$`+ `#`$4!`2" `P`.````S0<"``4`"@`N`!P``P`R
M`0$)@ $`(0```$4T-T,U-T1#-# W1D0P,3%"0D4P,#!$1# Q,34Y-4,X`"X'
M`0.0!@`0`P``$@````L`(P```````P`F```````+`"D```````,`-@``````
M0 `Y`."9QS1\$[P!'@!P``$````;````3W!P<RP@22!W87,@=W)O;F<@86)O
M=70@5T,```(!<0`!````%@````&\$WPTMMQ7?.9_0!'0N^ `W0$5E<@``!X`
M'@P!````!0```%--5% `````'@`?# $````2````;&-B96QL0&UE;6%C:"YC
M;VT````#``8099RL@@,`!Q#8````'@`($ $```!E````4T]33U)2649/3$M3
M+$E705-74D].1T%"3U541T545$E.1T%#3U!93T9705).15(M0U))5D923TU4
M2$5714)004=%4T]&05-4251705-72$E45$5-3U)%+4154D=)3D%.1$E,3P``
M```"`0D0`0```)8!``"2`0``+P(``$Q:1G6S"=YW_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0
M`O()`@!C: K <V5T,C<&``;#`H,R`\4"`'!R0G$1XG-T96T"@S.W`N0'$P*#
M-!+,%,5]"H"+",\)V3L7GS(U-0* !PJ!#;$+8&YG,3 S;Q10"PH58@P!8P! 
M!@!O1"!S!;!R>2 "$&P`:W,L($D@=V'M!"!W`V :H" !H A@!4!:9Q' = N 
M'B$@!:!PN1SP;V8=D02@!) M!0$,=BX=``-A('1H9?$=D&5B( JP'J <H1T`
M-1VP="!P205 ':)7:(YI`D 3X 6P92U$"'!F9PN 'C!N9!UQ%S!VRR$`(.%I
M!<!C80&0%S"*9R(B)P0@9G5L`R#_'Y(BT"/#(. >X00@'8 1@#DD4&XG!4 1
ML GP(&6Z;!&P=R#P%Z @<$@?4'TA`'D(8"8Q)>$1< 60:[8@)E$>82X*A0J%
M: ) H' Z+R]W*] N*/ 6;@-@$; N!:!M+V>C"V $$"]<"BJ,3 N @F0?($-A
M;7!B*" 7%X M1A;!`"_@```#`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `',"!*9<![$[P!
>0 `(,"!*9<![$[P!'@`]``$````!`````````.?$
`
end

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 12:18:39 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vsDnI-0001G5a; Wed, 5 Feb 97 12:18 PST
X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 15:16:17 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.201617.0>
References: <<1997Feb5.54944.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for clearing that up.  I was wondering what was wrong with me (?)
that it took me 5 months to get one!

Jerri

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:49:44 -0500 Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
writes:
>So sorry folks, I was wrong about getting a copy of warner-criv. from 
>the 
>web page so fast. It was Whittemore-Durgin and I love their catalog. 
>It's 
>full of wit and things I haven't seen elsewhere. Hope you will check 
>it 
>out.
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 12:18:39 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vsDnG-0001Isa; Wed, 5 Feb 97 12:18 PST
X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 15:16:17 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.201617.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.1640.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bob,

	What is *Thin-Set*?  Like a glue? Then do you grout over the
glass?  Were you talking about using glass on stones that were already
made?  I've been reading with interest about the mosaic cutters.  I've
been making stones using my scrap glass to fill the background and
thought I might like some.  I cut my background pieces pretty small.  So
far I've poured my own cement and haven't tried making any with pre-made
stones.  

Jerri




On Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:04:00 -0500 (EST) CUTLER@Wittenberg.EDU writes:
>Hi. Bob Cutler here.  <snip>
>The trouble with this pattern book - and
>others, I imagine - is that it really doesn't encourage the
>use of those pesky scraps which I refuse to throw away :) :).
>SO since I own a pair of the mosaic glass cutters, and wanted to
>use them, I decided to experiment:
>I bought a hexagonal patio stone.  I bought a bag of Thin-Set
>which is used to lay ceramic tile over concrete surfaces. I gathered
>my scraps and trimmed them to suit and hatched a pattern on the spot
>After laying out a rough design, I prepared the thin-set and 
>applied it to the stone, followed by the glass.  It was a bit messy
>but that was my fault for using too much thin-set.  I made sure that
>there was an empty space between each piece of glass.  After a
>bit of time called for on the thin-set package I applied grout.
>I like the result well enough to try again.  It takes less time,
>allows the use of the cutters, and is as much fun as the more formal
>patterns.
>
>In short I love the cutters.  
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 16:05:53 1997
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	id m0vsHKC-00012Wa; Wed, 5 Feb 97 16:04 PST
X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns/kidneys/hearts
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 18:32:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.143211.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.4307.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

So, Mary, do you think there is a market for weird but totally useless
panels? somehow I don't think that we will make our millions on this
idea!<g>

> Hilary's comments about "who else would want" were my thoughts exactly
> when I considered my favorite originals.....
> 
> But, no, I don't think anybody is gonna wanna run out and reproduce these.
> 
> Mary
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 16:07:56 1997
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	id m0vsHNH-0001Oja; Wed, 5 Feb 97 16:07 PST
X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 18:36:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.14365.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.162223.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> 
> Hi, I am new to this group, why would Elizabeth scratch Toby behind the
> ears..Remember, I am 3hounds.

Oh, dear, if you don't know that Toby is an Old English Sheepdog, that
comment might even be weirder than the kindney panel!

There is a rather nice picture of Toby on Elisabeth's home page...along
with stained glass, of course. <g>

Hilary
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 16:23:02 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vsHbr-0001C8a; Wed, 5 Feb 97 16:22 PST
X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 18:51:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.145129.0>
References: <<199702050411.EAA14670@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

Please don't get my wrong, Elisabeth. I am very partial to my kidney
panel. Yes, it is totally weird, however, I am not going to try to sneak
it out of my cousin's house. I trust that he will be able to "enjoy" it
for a long time to come! Hummmm, it occurs to me that he lives out of
town and the panel may be gracing a closet! Nah. He'll hang it. It falls
in the realm of "conversation piece."

My cousin is quite well. Thanks for asking. Quite well for him is not
what would be considered quite well for a lot of other people, but
considering that he was about to die a long time ago.....He has spent
the last year falling in love with a new woman and will be getting
married within the year. I hope that she has a sense of humor or the
panel's days are numbered!

Hilary

> Dear Hilary & Albert,
> 
> MINOR details, my friend, minor details....
> The Kidney Transplant Unit at No. 30 High Street, Anytown, UK, should
> be so darned lucky to be adorned with such a stained glass memorium.
> What about your cousin?
> Congratulations! That''s quite a feat! Toby requests you should
> gently scratch your cousin's ears in return and say "snuffle". As
> regards kidneys floating about in stained glass, I too have my
> "Waterloo"....
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 17:06:05 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vsIHP-0001E2a; Wed, 5 Feb 97 17:05 PST
X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds
From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 20:09:28 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.18928.0>
References: <<1997Feb4.52310.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> I had heard heresome time back that there was a problem getting a WC
> catalog. I just requesedt one from their web page and got it within a few
> days. I was thrilled with it. Lots of tongue-in-cheek humor (like the old
> Beagle brothers software for Apple IIe's).
> Over all the catalog reads like a good book and I will be sure to order
> from them to spread my business around.

I have been their one of their customers since I started...I never had a 
problem with receiving their catalog..In fact at last Christmas's order, 
their clerk said to wait and their new and better catalog would be 
arriving and it did.
> 
> http://www.catalogsite.com/Gen/Warner_P1.html
> 
> Linda Campbell
> 
> Toby wrote:
> <Not wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons here,  I am hoping
> that you might be able to dispel past niggles from  a number of our
> Group, that of contacting Warner-Crivellaro to try and prise out a
> Catalog from your Company in the FIRST place. If I remember correctly
> from thess last 12 months, there has been a certain amount of grumblings
> about the difficulties and retisence by Warner-Crivellaro to part
> with their catalogues to us individually. My own last full catalogue
> dates back to 1994 and the latest "Mini-Catalog" from 1995 which > snip
> 
> begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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> M;VT`4TU44 !G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT`````'@`", $````%````4TU44 ``
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> M`!X``3 !````$@```"=G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VTG`````@$+, $````5````
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> M````! ````````-\*P$(@ <`& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E
> M`#$(`02 `0`-````4D4Z($-A=&%L;V=S`!\$`06 `P`.````S0<"``0`"@`7
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> M( `?4-)N',!G;P5 :05 `_"7'G +@!]19@?19&$3L.\A0A\B'G %$&P?P!S
> M)**;)&$A0$PD0 0@;V8=P-4"(&<*4"T+@"T1< G@&1Y0:'4$8 7 *&QIKFL=
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> M00-@=20`+*8*A8)H`D!P.B\O=S5@/BX@U0"0$] UD -P+T<9"? O5PK (H!R
> M7U"D,2XT\&UL-!Q,"X#!)7 @0V%M<#"0)G M-!Q4'Z R\'<JD64Z?0J%/ M&
> M%%$+\A^!$]!C_05 3B1!`_$DT2!@,D(1P#\MIA]0!& :H"&A*9)P:<\@``(@
> M!" =0BP@''$Y$+T<D&\_<"!1"H4><WD(8'\RT#^ -/ P@@&@*E$Q$62]! !P
> M.5 CD2&A`P!G*D'W!" BLQ]1;BC@,) %P">AZPAA-'9',[%P0# ><R>AGP6@
> M`C `T" S-N0M0P40SRTP)G SH3$"='(R\"/R]Q-0! `IL74^D31V.0`N%-\B
> MLT'A2L$#< JP;C+P).'!*9)&25)35!]P"V#^8S9 '' GL!R %Z '@$43]P6A
> M%Z \T&PR\ J%(K8$$;L+8"&A,1'@/L$><'-&DO\>XA& !" PD GP'U%-@ `@
> M_PMQ/J(ST$;C"<!%`2E /N$_-'8!H$H2*9)#, W0:6/\=6P=T >1(_(7H!W0
> M$;#^;DV 'A R\$?O,0(*L05 _PJ%)L,C!"#5(@$Q`B&03'&A0S!V:61U+7%Y
> M(4"R33+P;W<#H%!C9E6P_P,@6?<T=@K[/!TE<!/04>'#'C,Q(#$Y.30CXRF2
> MIPM@7^$%0")-"X!I2$#M(.0B(J1@H34?$"30$7#;"N$;?SXK``,`<%V5%L$"
> M`&80`````P`0$ `````#`!$0`````$ `!S @V2V@KA*\`4 `"# @V2V@KA*\
> 7`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````J94`
> `
> end
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 17:30:29 1997
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From: CUTLER@Wittenberg.EDU
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 20:29:44 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.152944.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

"Thin-Set" is the trade name for a powder/cement that is mixed with a
latex liquid and water to form a paste the consistency of cake icing :)
(I'm hungry, I think) Spread a thin coat on a large patio stone, set your glass
and clear the spaces between pieces to take grout after the thin-set
has dried (36-48 hours according to the bag's directions).  I use a piece 
of wood along the edges to act as a temporary form to allow a level
coat around the whole piece.  A margin, in effect.  I work out the
pattern on a sheet of cardboard the size of the stone.  The trick
seems to be to transfer the material to the stone.  But it is fun
because there is a great deal of latitude in design so you can make
adjustments as you go along.  The cutters really help out  in trimming
pieces to fill those unexpected gaps.  
BTW you can buy thin-set at [places like Lowes or Furrows.  The latex
additive is rather expensive unless you can buy smaller amounts than a gallon.
Have fun!
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 17:37:42 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:36:01 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.15361.0>
References: <<1997Feb5.201617.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Today I took a busman's holiday and visited our friend Christie's favorite
place, Inspirations (Eagleville PA). The owner answered my questions about
the pricey Leponitt cutters, then said the magic words, "Would you like to
try them?"

They are so fast and easy to use that I couldn't wait, I paid retail on
'em and was glad to get them! 

Mary


On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Jerri M Roey wrote:

> Hi Bob,
> 
> 	What is *Thin-Set*?  Like a glue? Then do you grout over the
> glass?  Were you talking about using glass on stones that were already
> made?  I've been reading with interest about the mosaic cutters.  I've
> been making stones using my scrap glass to fill the background and
> thought I might like some.  I cut my background pieces pretty small.  So
> far I've poured my own cement and haven't tried making any with pre-made
> stones.  
> 
> Jerri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:04:00 -0500 (EST) CUTLER@Wittenberg.EDU writes:
> >Hi. Bob Cutler here.  <snip>
> >The trouble with this pattern book - and
> >others, I imagine - is that it really doesn't encourage the
> >use of those pesky scraps which I refuse to throw away :) :).
> >SO since I own a pair of the mosaic glass cutters, and wanted to
> >use them, I decided to experiment:
> >I bought a hexagonal patio stone.  I bought a bag of Thin-Set
> >which is used to lay ceramic tile over concrete surfaces. I gathered
> >my scraps and trimmed them to suit and hatched a pattern on the spot
> >After laying out a rough design, I prepared the thin-set and 
> >applied it to the stone, followed by the glass.  It was a bit messy
> >but that was my fault for using too much thin-set.  I made sure that
> >there was an empty space between each piece of glass.  After a
> >bit of time called for on the thin-set package I applied grout.
> >I like the result well enough to try again.  It takes less time,
> >allows the use of the cutters, and is as much fun as the more formal
> >patterns.
> >
> >In short I love the cutters.  
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> ----
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> 

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 20:42:38 1997
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X-Path: win.bright.net!hdevos
From: "Harold De Vos" <hdevos@win.bright.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:33:31 -0600
Message-ID: <199702060442.WAA12093@bucky.win.bright.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

re: Bud's eye : one eye blinded by solder fumes??
Yes it was a surgical insertion and a miracle.  They injected something,
then told me I could go to sleep if i wished.

But Then turned on the brightest light I have ever seen. I thought >  no
way I could sleep, but within 10 seconds, I could care less about what he
was doing and did snooze!  Just two hours later, i could see the beautiful
world again and with BOTH eyes.  It actually made my sight better because
the new lens was made to correct some, but not all of my near sightedness!

Take care!
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 21:01:04 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!rockingbird
From: rockingbird@juno.com (Terry L Biegler)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 23:52:16 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb6.45216.0>
References: <<1997Feb1.92640.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I agree with everything you said 100%. I kid around that glass selection
takes me longer than the whole rest of the project together. But it does
take me a long time. I think it's the most important part. I have never
bought glass through the mail. Each piece of glass I buy has to have a
certain something about it, especially if it is for a particular
project.. I have seen nice pieces done but with poor glass choices that
ruined the whole look of the piece.

Terry
                                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~      
       ~                     ~              Jim & Terry Biegler         ~
                    ~~       ~        ~          ~         ~       
Rockingbird Studio    ~        ~         ~          ~           ~     ~  
                ~                            Ft. Worth, TX               
            ~                        ~                                   
           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, 01 Feb 1997 22:55:56 -0500 shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net> writes:
>I have contributed to this this list and rec.crafts.glass at times, 
>but
>I lurk more than contribute.
>I add to the discourse, when I think I can add something, and will 
>defer
>to someone who seems to be better informed than I. I don't spend 
>enough
>time doing glass, as I unfortunately have too many hobbies and
>interests. I brew my own beer, restore cars, have family who like to 
>see
>me in daylight, and a day job that takes away from my hobby time. But
>,IMHO, there are some subjects I put my $0.02 in. One is glass
>selection. I don't do as much work as Mike Savad and others who grace
>this forum, but what I do, since I don't do volume, is very important 
>to
>me. I am not saying that anybody else's work is not as important, (I'm
>not gunshy of flame wars, am I?), but glass selection is a major step 
>to
>me, because I basically do 'keeper' projects, or gifts. When I started
>my first Tiffany style lamp, I spent a large part of a Saturday
>afternoon selecting glass. If I am doing a window, or panel that
>sunlight will show through, I will go to my local studio on a fairly
>bright day, and take the sheets to the front of the shop, wher the
>natural light shines, and hold the glass up and look through it, as
>incandescent light has different properties than the sun. On the other
>hand, if doing a lamp, I will use a bulb of similar wattage as the
>fixture will hold, to mimic what the lamp will look like when done and
>lit. I will hold sheets of colors that will be ajacent, or complement
>each other to the light together, so I don't get something that 
>clashes.
>I am doing a Daffodil Tiffany Odessey lamp, and spent a half hour over
>two sheets of yellow and white ring mottled, deciding which sheet 
>would
>work better for the bell ends of the trumpets.
>All well and good, but what if I live a gazillion miles from the 
>nearest
>studio? If you are plan on doing a lot of projects, most glass 
>companies
>sell 'sampler packs' that will give you a better feel of what may not 
>be
>too descriptive a style, a la 'wispy'. This is not as good to me, as
>there are variations among/within batches of glass, but it's better 
>than
>ordering blind. If you do seasonal suncatchers, red and white for 
>Santa
>Claus is not so critical. If I'm going to look at a window for a
>significant portion of my life, I don't want to be second guessing my
>glass choice. Some projects, it's not critcal, but for some glass 
>choice
>can 'make' the difference between, 'gee that's nice' and 'OH WOW'. I 
>am
>finishing a window panel that used $200 in glass and lead alone. This 
>is
>for my best friends anniversary. 
>
>Is there a point to this rambling, you say? Yes, and the message is
>Support your local shop. I learned in a small studio, and it is still
>the first place I go. No I'm not a purist (a large discount on solder 
>is
>a large discount on solder). If I can't get what I need, I will shop
>elsewhere, at one of his competitors, or mail order. He knows this. 
>I'm
>not knocking the people who run a business, and add a lot to this 
>forum,
>but your local shop is the one you probably go to when you've broken 
>the
>last piece of that color, or your iron tip burns out in the final
>beading of a panel due to be picked up tomorrow. I see the same issues
>in rec.crafts.brewing - who's got the best price on grain? But where 
>do
>you run when fermantation is stuck and you have $35 in specialty grain
>sitting in a fermenter not looking like beer? If you don't support 
>your
>local shops, they may not be there when you need them. Buy mail order
>when you use volume, but Support your local businesses.
>Standard diclaimer - I am not an employee, nor spokesman, and opinions
>expessed are mine, and apologies if I've offended
>anyone                   
><Major snip below>
>> > The problem is, that even with the vaunted Photoshop, everything's 
>an
>> > approximation. If you, Mike, and I were standing side by side, 
>both
>> > looking at an identical piece of glass, we might differ on what 
>its
>> > exact color would be called; is it greenish-blue or bluish-green? 
>Is
>> > it aqua with white striping or teal with ivory striping? Once you
>> > photograph it, the film you use affects its colors, as do the
>> > camera's settings; when you scan the photo and call it into
>> > Photoshop, how do you decide which brightness level, hue setting 
>or
>> > intensity of color saturation is "correct"?
>> >
>> > Naturally, you would do all of those things according to your
>> > judgement, taste, and perception. So would I. But we might 
>disagree
>> > on which result was most like the original piece of glass, since
>> > every step along the way is merely an approximation of the 
>previous
>> > step ... and none of them would look like the actual glass itself.
>> >
>> > That's both frustrating and a challenge to those of us who try to
>> > represent glass and glasswork as accurately and beautifully as
>> > possible, whether in print or on the web.
>> >
>> > Albert
>> >
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 22:21:24 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:20:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.202017.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Aren't they wonderful!?  They were the first tool that I was shown when I
started looking into working with glass and I bought them on the spot.
 Absolutely magical the way they just bite right through the glass with NO
effort at all!  Anyone doing mosaic work should really look into these.
 Actually, I'd recommend them for anyone working in glass, period.

Susie
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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 22:47:20 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:46:09 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb5.20469.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Have you ever heard a better argument for ALWAYS wearing protective eyewear
while you work!  Better the glasses get scratched than your corneas.  :-)

<< 
 and of course there's reg. tissues. the other thing that might have
 scratched them is the grinder. and spray that come out either has tiny
 chips of glass, or powder suspended in water. once wiped off that will
 scratch too.
 
 ---Mike Savad
  >>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb  5 23:32:07 1997
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From: JeongJie Lee <jjlee@www.wnprod.co.kr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Conservation materials for the glass surface after sandblasting ?
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:33:32 +0900
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.03332.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: RDIC
Precedence: bulk

Hello!

I needs your help for the conservation materials on the sandblasted
frosted flat glass surface without coloring which can keep from spots
and stain and scratch too.
I dont want to use Hydrofluolic Acid because of danger.
It would be very helpful for me if you inform me about how you do finish 
the sandblasted glass surface.

In the mean time, I have checked clear lacuer for coating material.
Is there any other solution? 
Pls help me.

Looking forward to hearing good news.
 
Best Regards,
JeongJi Lee
RDIC
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 00:02:46 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 02:27:26 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb6.102726.0>
References: <<1997Feb5.54944.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Would they have a 1-800 number in which to call?? If so would you send it
please? I appreciate your help.
Mary   diamonds@juno.com



On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:49:44 -0500 Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
writes:
>So sorry folks, I was wrong about getting a copy of warner-criv. from 
>the 
>web page so fast. It was Whittemore-Durgin and I love their catalog. 
>It's 
>full of wit and things I haven't seen elsewhere. Hope you will check 
>it 
>out.
>
>http://www.penrose.com/glass/
>
>
>Linda Campbell
>
>
>begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
>M>)\^(BX/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0`
>M`@````(``@`!!) &``@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/
>M`0```#T`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC
>M;VT`4TU44 !G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT`````'@`", $````%````4TU44 ``
>M```>``,P`0```! ```!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT``P`5# $````#`/X/!@``
>M`!X``3 !````$@```"=G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VTG`````@$+, $````5````
>M4TU44#I'3$%34T!"54Y'22Y#3TT``````P``.0`````+`$ Z`0````(!]@\!
>M````! ````````-\*P$(@ <`& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E
>M`#$(`02 `0`;````3W!P<RP@22!W87,@=W)O;F<@86)O=70@5T,`Y @!!8 #
>M``X```#-!P(`!0`*`#$`+ `#`$4!`2" `P`.````S0<"``4`"@`N`!P``P`R
>M`0$)@ $`(0```$4T-T,U-T1#-# W1D0P,3%"0D4P,#!$1# Q,34Y-4,X`"X'
>M`0.0!@`0`P``$@````L`(P```````P`F```````+`"D```````,`-@``````
>M0 `Y`."9QS1\$[P!'@!P``$````;````3W!P<RP@22!W87,@=W)O;F<@86)O
>M=70@5T,```(!<0`!````%@````&\$WPTMMQ7?.9_0!'0N^ `W0$5E<@``!X`
>M'@P!````!0```%--5% `````'@`?# $````2````;&-B96QL0&UE;6%C:"YC
>M;VT````#``8099RL@@,`!Q#8````'@`($ $```!E````4T]33U)2649/3$M3
>M+$E705-74D].1T%"3U541T545$E.1T%#3U!93T9705).15(M0U))5D923TU4
>M2$5714)004=%4T]&05-4251705-72$E45$5-3U)%+4154D=)3D%.1$E,3P``
>M```"`0D0`0```)8!``"2`0``+P(``$Q:1G6S"=YW_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0
>M`O()`@!C: K <V5T,C<&``;#`H,R`\4"`'!R0G$1XG-T96T"@S.W`N0'$P*#
>M-!+,%,5]"H"+",\)V3L7GS(U-0* !PJ!#;$+8&YG,3 S;Q10"PH58@P!8P! 
>M!@!O1"!S!;!R>2 "$&P`:W,L($D@=V'M!"!W`V :H" !H A@!4!:9Q' = N 
>M'B$@!:!PN1SP;V8=D02@!) M!0$,=BX=``-A('1H9?$=D&5B( JP'J <H1T`
>M-1VP="!P205 ':)7:(YI`D 3X 6P92U$"'!F9PN 'C!N9!UQ%S!VRR$`(.%I
>M!<!C80&0%S"*9R(B)P0@9G5L`R#_'Y(BT"/#(. >X00@'8 1@#DD4&XG!4 1
>ML GP(&6Z;!&P=R#P%Z @<$@?4'TA`'D(8"8Q)>$1< 60:[8@)E$>82X*A0J%
>M: ) H' Z+R]W*] N*/ 6;@-@$; N!:!M+V>C"V $$"]<"BJ,3 N @F0?($-A
>M;7!B*" 7%X M1A;!`"_@```#`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `',"!*9<![$[P!
>>0 `(,"!*9<![$[P!'@`]``$````!`````````.?$
>`
>end
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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>
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 01:42:13 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 04:48:00 +0000
Message-ID: <199702060941.EAA18398@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


> Would they have a 1-800 number in which to call??

You bet: Whittemore-Durgin Glass Co., PO Box 2065 NN, Hanover MA
                      02339. Phone: (617) 871-1790. (800) 225-0380.
                      Fax: (800) 786-3457. Email: jhepburn@penrose.com
                      Website: http://www.penrose.com/glass 

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 06:39:23 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Conservation materials for the glass surface after
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:38:53 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb6.143853.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


JeongJi Lee,

I know there are a number of people in this group that would be happy to
give you advise, but perhaps you could give us more details?

Do you have a sandblasted piece that you are trying to clean or protect with
some type of coating?  Is this something you have sandblasted yourself, or
are you trying to preserve something you found?

If you can give us more details, I know you will get some helpful replies.
Your English is fine, your question is just a little vague.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

At 06:33 AM 2/6/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello!
>
>I needs your help for the conservation materials on the sandblasted
>frosted flat glass surface without coloring which can keep from spots
>and stain and scratch too.
>I dont want to use Hydrofluolic Acid because of danger.
>It would be very helpful for me if you inform me about how you do finish 
>the sandblasted glass surface.
>
>In the mean time, I have checked clear lacuer for coating material.
>Is there any other solution? 
>Pls help me.
>
>Looking forward to hearing good news.
> 
>Best Regards,
>JeongJi Lee
>RDIC
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 08:01:06 1997
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From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass safety online
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:00:31 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970206110152.2f7fdc00@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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 Hi Albert, 
                Do you have the web address for the page you describe here?

                                                                            
            Thanks, 
                                                                            
            Barbara

At 05:56 AM 2/5/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Say, everyone, I just learned that Monona Rossol's outfit, Arts, 
>Crafts and Theater Safety is now online ... and it's a pretty 
>impressive site! As the home page says, "if you are looking for professional
>     information about the hazards posed by toxic materials and
>     dangerous equipment used in art and theater, you have found the
>     right place!"
>
>There's even a search engine for MSDSs! You can just enter the 
>chemical you need information on ... and look it up!
>
>Albert
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life, Cornell University
255-5960

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 11:05:19 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass safety online
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>                 Do you have the web address for the page you describe here?

Yes, I posted it yesterday, so you've probably already got it. Sorry 
I left it off in the first place.  It's also at the head of the 
Guild's home page (URL below my signature).

Monona Rossol's ACTS glass safety: http://www.caseweb.com/acts

Albert

 
Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 16:10:41 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:26:00 +0000
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Dear pj Friend,
Chartres trip is on course. We will be stay at the Isis Hotel in 
Centre of Chartres between 2-5 April. Contact me now, later or during 
visit. As I have said to you before - will leave no stone unturned to 
try and meet up with you....
Photography: Yes, I take on board what you say. Maybe you missed my 
point about Professional Photographers over here virtuially admitting 
defeat  about the success of photographing stained glass.
1. I always photograph  my work BEFORE it leaves my work-shop.
2. It further needs photographing "in situ". For a photographer that 
could involve a round-trip of several humndreds of miles. End Result: 
I would pay more for the journey and less for the photography. I 
cannot afford that. I am basically a One-woman-operation.
I learned basic photography techniques from my ex-husband BBC 
Television expert in the 1960's. He also taught me that if I want it 
"RIGHT", I got to do it myself...
I am also a keen amateur photographer as a hobby (because of what he 
taught me...) and have  produced the odd prize-winning 
photo-composition over the years. As regards photographing my own 
stained glass, it is something I do feel quite strongly about. For a 
professional photographer it is - at the end of the day - only 
"another job"....
I don't quite have the "right" detachment to my stained glass. I am 
not quite able to "let go" of them once I have completed them. I have 
to be there when they are installed, they are very much my "babies" 
until they are mature, settled and acclamitized. That process also 
includes photography. I supply each of my customers with a 
photograph for insurance purposes. That photograph also has to be 
good enough to be an addition to my portfolio. I can't afford to pay 
a professional photographer milage, petrol, expenses, hotel bills to 
take an indifferent photograph of questionnable quality and lighting 
already previously discussed and weaknesses admitted.
It really is a job I have to get to grips with myself. 
There is no passing the buck............
I have had 3-4 valuable input from Glass@Bungi about change of films, 
approaches, lighting and so on. Anything and every contribution on 
this level is very valued and will be explored. Hiring a 
"Professional Photographer" in my conception of my work, is simply 
not an option.

May I at this stage dare to reply to an earlier input of yours, 
concerning "support your local supplier".  Much has been said in the 
mean-time  by other people. The latest in-put actually summarized my 
deepest feelings about this subject.
                                "Support is a 2-Way Traffic"
I am a stained glass artist in my own right, searching for supplies, 
glass and accessories on that one level.
I am also a teacher, teaching a whole new generation of stained glass 
professionals or hobbyists. For a Stained Glass Supplier I might 
carry to him - as a gift - a potential new customer base of about 100 
- 200 NEW customers per year.  Is that NOT support????
On THAT level;, should HE not support ME????
MY gripe has been that he doesn't; he takes a short-term, get rich 
quick attitude and behaves like a rip-off merchant.
A bit of thought, a bit of strategy, a bit of long-term-planning and 
my little local supplier  would be well frequented, well-supported 
and well recommended.
I repeat: Support is a 2-way Traffic. 
I didn't coin that phrase. I am indebted to the one in Glass@Bungi 
who did.
Take Care
Elisabeth 'n Toby
Elisabeth wrote,
>Good Heavens, you just spoke the lament of my soul..... However hard 
>I try, only too often do my photographs screw up. I have spoken to 
>more professional photographers than I have had hot dinners. >>

We have found that hiring a professional is the "best" way to go.  No matter
how hard we try our photos just come out ok.  As you can tell from our Web
Site I am sure you would be able to tell the difference from the
professional photos.
There are just not enough hours in the day to learn everything...that is why
there are professional  photographers. Sort of a trade. I would never expect
them to be able to create what we do either.  And at this point we really
don't have the time to sit on site and wait for the right lighting either.
Or do we care to.  


How are you arrangements for your trip coming???  My offer still
stands....we could meet and chat about some of the great things in Chartre
you should not miss!!!  
Hope all is well.

my best,
pj

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As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 16:10:41 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:26:00 +0000
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Hi Hilary,
Toby says very much thank you for the  "ear-scratch" and the extra 
"plug" to admire HIS (repeat: HIS)  web-page.......
The story of your cousin I find quite amazing and therefore your 
"kidney-panel" totally appropriate. Be proud of it ( and the 
"new-wife-to-be" had better have a sense of humour or I'll send a 
horde of Vikings to "deal" with her!!).
I wish I could be proud of my "Victoria Falls" panel, but it 
positively makes me cringe......
Now and then, I do get it right. I delivered a round port-hole 3 
ft-diameter panel last week to a customer. He and his wife 
have spent a lot of time in New Zealand (spelling?) and had studied a 
lot of marine life. They had fallen in love with humped-backed 
whales, which  was what they wanted me to do as a design. Quite 
contrary to my normal custom, I didn't show them my final design, nor 
did I seek their approval for my colour-mix. Quite out of character, 
I just went ahead and made it. So he (and his wife) had no idea what 
they were going to get. My heart in my socks, I started to unwrap my 
offering in front of this great, big, muscular 6ft 4 in. man. He just 
stood there and looked as I struggled with the weight and said not a 
word. I panicked and thought - Oh God, he doesn't like it!! When he 
finally spoke, he was choking..... I had to put the panel down and 
disappear out to the car and pretend I was getting tools out..... (In 
reality, I was fumbling around for the large box of tissues....). 
What a wonderful reward!!

As Regards "The Bungi Atlas Of Stained Glass", there was a little 
serious streak in me that spoke out.....
YES! Let's have  some crazy  & fun ideas, but let's get serious too.
Look at it this way; there is such a gold-mine of talent, dedication, 
love (of the medium), good-will, imagination, drawing skills, 
designing skills and sense of adventure amongst ALL  of our 
Bungi-crowd, that would make such a project as this immensely 
exciting. What a wonderful gift to pass on..... and what a promotion 
for Stained Glass!!
There is about 20 hard-core energetic participants in the 
"Bungi-Group", a strong voice from Canada, Australia and New Zealand,
 about a dozen occasional "learners/hobbyists" from anywhere and 
everywhere, , a quiet sprinkling from  Holland, Poland, UK (hmmm!)
 and Korea (!). If each and everyone of ALL of us "donated"  1-2 of 
our OWN ddesigns each to the Atlas, we could end up with a collection 
of well over 100s of designs (if not more) across the World and across 
all abilities, designed and actually made by REAL stained glass folks 
(as opposed to conveyor-belt commercial graphic designers...).
I would like to see contributions across the entire spectrum of 
knowledge, experience, ability and vision.
As I see it, we need to establish first of all a kind of a "Birth 
Team" ( Editor, Co-Ordinator, Progress Chaser, Administrator,  
Finance Advisor, Promotions Expert, Publisher, Printer, Mediator and 
Time Keeper).
Then we need to decide on Subject Matters ;  Copper-foil: ( sub-divided 
into lamps, 3d objects, sun catchers, fan-lamps etc)
Lead (sub-divided into architectural (religeous, domestic, 
commercial), 3-d and what I call New-Lead sun-catcher field;
as well as
Etching
engraving
sand-blasting
mosaics
painting (kiln and non-kiln)
hot glass
bead-making
any more??

Initially, just as a kind of "sampler"  by stained glass artists 
speaking to those out there interested in what Stained Glass is all 
about. There are a fair number of "learned tomes" by the Giants, old 
and new. THIS should be a light-hearted, informative, inspirational 
"idea-nurturing" Atlas that says ... "YESSSS!!!" I can do it!!
The initial publication would not be geared to earning us mega-bucks. 
It wouldn't earn us a single cent. It would be a promotional offering 
and any money arising out of it, to be put in a "Trust Fund" to 
finance a talented stained glass aspirant to learn/study more.
Terribly idealistic??
Yeah, maybe...
Possible???    You Bet!!
In-put?? That depends on YOU....
More ideas???    ...Up to YOU....

(Dear "T" in Montana,  you will receive a hand-drawn copy of  my 
Tree-of-Life design. It wouldn't photocopy............ is in 
hand..........)

Forgotten now who asked for the first "ball" to be thrown. I have 
thrown ONE ball.. Any others...??
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Hilary wrote:
Please don't get my wrong, Elisabeth. I am very partial to my kidney
panel. Yes, it is totally weird, however, I am not going to try to sneak
it out of my cousin's house. I trust that he will be able to "enjoy" it
for a long time to come! Hummmm, it occurs to me that he lives out of
town and the panel may be gracing a closet! Nah. He'll hang it. It falls
in the realm of "conversation piece."

My cousin is quite well. Thanks for asking. Quite well for him is not
what would be considered quite well for a lot of other people, but
considering that he was about to die a long time ago.....He has spent
the last year falling in love with a new woman and will be getting
married within the year. I hope that she has a sense of humor or the
panel's days are numbered!

Hilary

> Dear Hilary & Albert,
> 
> MINOR details, my friend, minor details....
> The Kidney Transplant Unit at No. 30 High Street, Anytown, UK, should
> be so darned lucky to be adorned with such a stained glass memorium.
> What about your cousin?
> Congratulations! That''s quite a feat! Toby requests you should
> gently scratch your cousin's ears in return and say "snuffle". As
> regards kidneys floating about in stained glass, I too have my
> "Waterloo"....
----
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 16:11:16 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:26:00 +0000
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Hi "3hounds"

When I first got launched on the "Internet", I was in the care of a 
"perfect English Gentleman", who felt the need to protect me as a 
woman, as an artiste and as a potential victim in the Internet 
Jungle. He is also a very senior computer consultant with a large 
international computer company in UK. Also a very cherished 
stained glass customer to-have-become-a-close-personal- friend. (The 
peacock design on my home page was made for him). His 
name is Kris and he is the author of my WEB-page. He chose as my 
pseudonym "Toby", which is the name of my Old English Sheepdog 
Braybark Toby Tobias. The trouble is, that Toby has developed his OWN 
personality and impact on my life and my work. He is my "stress management 
policy", he shows me the very basic requirements and values in life; 
he constantly reminds me of my roots to nature and simplicity of 
Life's Requirements. He demands of me that I am in touch with Things 
that Grow. He also demands of me that I participate in very basic 
pleasures and inspirations. He also reminds me that even the 
"grandest world-wide financial genius, pontificator, and 
what-have-you" is no different from you and I, with their pants down 
across a toilet bowl with an upset tummy.......... (Imagine Bill 
Gates..!)  ... Old English have a very delicate digestive system....

Within that context, I stalk the Hertfordshiure countryside in rubber 
boots, across muddy fields and - often - pouring rain, behind this 
defiant Old English "rump", totally determined to show me HIS latest 
discoveries and treasure troves.  Some times it's a white albino deer 
stag with his harem of female deers crossing the fields at sunset, 
some times it is a clutch of baby hedgehogs, or a warren of hares or 
rabbits; now and then it's an orphan fox vixen.. In the photograph on
 my web-page it was just the 
intoxicating smell of blue-bells just in full bloom that he insisted 
I should share with him. Last March to last October ny stained glass 
was full of hues of BLUE from the blue-bell impressions he showed me.
It's a bit crazy, Toby loves smelling flowers....
(He loves digging them up too in my garden, the little "bugger"....)
THAT is Toby Tobias, great-nephew of Braybark Bold Baron Trooper, who 
was the Du Pont Dulux paint advertisment "son". Toby Tobias is not 
the first "Master" of this household, but the third. A Victoria Plum 
Tree and an Old English Oak Tree in my garden mark previous 
generations. I have even made 24 lbs of plum jam last autumn. A 
typical English Breakfast is planned for this Easter to my US Bungi 
friends, complete with Victoria Plum Jam on toast......

My stained glass interpretations - as I see my contribution -  are simple, structural, 
functional and adhering totally in colour to where they will finally 
"live". I am very much a person of "LIFE" and movement. Toby Tobias helps
 me to peel away much of the Sophistication and Intellectualism of debates 
about "Meaning of Life". His great, big 2 inch nose is close to the 
ground, close to Mother Earth and so often shows me where I should 
really look. He has developed his own little "fan-mail" on the 
Internet. He is a very gentle, cheeky, fun-loving clown and was/is 
totally appropriate to "fronting" me in his very earthy values.
He also loves having his ears scratched.....
That is the Story of Braybark Toby Tobias and his ears
Me - I am just learning to create Stained Glass.
Elisabeth 'n Toby


You wrote:
> 
> Hi, I am new to this group, why would Elizabeth scratch Toby behind the
> ears..Remember, I am 3hounds.

Oh, dear, if you don't know that Toby is an Old English Sheepdog, that
comment might even be weirder than the kindney panel!

There is a rather nice picture of Toby on Elisabeth's home page...along
with stained glass, of course. <g>

Hilary

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 16:11:51 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass safety online
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:26:00 +0000
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Hi Albert,
Would you happen to have the WEB address to Monona's new site???
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Albert wrote:
Say, everyone, I just learned that Monona Rossol's outfit, Arts, 
Crafts and Theater Safety is now online ... and it's a pretty 
impressive site! As the home page says, "if you are looking for professional
     information about the hazards posed by toxic materials and
     dangerous equipment used in art and theater, you have found the
     right place!"

There's even a search engine for MSDSs! You can just enter the 
chemical you need information on ... and look it up!

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 16:12:26 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Conservation materials for the glass surface after sandblas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:26:00 +0000
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Hello JeongJi Lee,
If  I understand your e-mail address correctly, you are located in 
Korea??
Welcome! May I compliment you on your English!
There are a number in our Group who are knowledgable in 
sand-blasting. But in order to help you, let us know a few more 
details, for example,
- is it a kind of a table-top surface ?
- Is it a window mounted surface, in which case
                                - in doors only
                                - with one surface facing outdoors ?
- is it a new panel or an old one?
 - What sort of "spots, stains and scratches" are you thinking of? Existing 
ones or ones you would like to prevent happening?
- Clear lacquer isn't really a long-term solution. It too gets easily 
scratched, discoloured, stained and so on. It's also very difficult to clean off, 
should you decide for an alternative solution later on.
- When you mentioned Hydrofluoric Acid, it made me think that you 
may be trying to restore/retrace "worn out" features in the original 
sandblasting work....  ??
- So far, the only easy, instant "CONSERVATION" idea that springs to 
my mind is to cut another clear, plain sheet of glass to fit your 
piece and lay it over the top, allowing for the usual ventilation 
aspects to prevent moisture getting trapped in between. That plain 
piece of glass can then take all the "punishment" of wear, tear, 
stains, spots and scratches and can be easily re-newed from time to 
time.
Do tell us more!
Kind Regards from United Kingdom (...and Sweden)
Elisabeth 'n Toby


JeongJi Lee wrote:
I needs your help for the conservation materials on the sandblasted
frosted flat glass surface without coloring which can keep from spots
and stain and scratch too.
I dont want to use Hydrofluolic Acid because of danger.
It would be very helpful for me if you inform me about how you do finish 
the sandblasted glass surface.

In the mean time, I have checked clear lacuer for coating material.
Is there any other solution? 
Pls help me.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 17:25:41 1997
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From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:24:48 -0500
Message-ID: <9702070124.AA11116@water.waterw.com>
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Elizabeth wrote,
>Dear pj Friend,


>
<<>May I at this stage dare to reply to an earlier input of yours, 
>concerning "support your local supplier".  Much has been said in the 
>mean-time  by other people. The latest in-put actually summarized my 
>deepest feelings about this subject.



>  Elizabeth,
                             

I don'' think I ever mentioned anything about supporting a local supplier.
It might have been from PJ from California???? Wasn't me.
We travel to New York to purchase all of our glass so that would be
kinda out of character for me to say that.  The local suppliers in this area
only sell retail, they also don''t carry alot of the glass or supplies that
we use.
I also agree with what you mentioned about your local supplier..if you are
sending him that kind of business he should be greeting you with a smile and
a big discount!!!!

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 18:20:05 1997
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From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:17:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb6.16179.0>
References: <<199702041436.OAA02612@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:
> 
>  Hi Elenie (and All),
> I think an awful lot of people are very pleased to see a regular
> input from you and delighted to see you in our "fold".
> Not wishing to set the cat amongst the pigeons here,  I am hoping
> that you might be able to dispel past niggles from  a number of our
> Group, that of contacting Warner-Crivellaro to try and prise out a
> Catalog from your Company in the FIRST place. If I remember correctly
> from thess last 12 months, there has been a certain amount of grumblings
> about the difficulties and retisence by Warner-Crivellaro to part
> with their catalogues to us individually. My own last full catalogue
> dates back to 1994 and the latest "Mini-Catalog" from 1995 which has
> kindly been forwarded to me from a member of Bungi in USA (who is
> coming over to UK in a month or so).
> Could you perhaps enlighten us what the situation is now, and thereby
> - also perhaps - win back the favour of some disgruntled potential
> customers (especially in USA - never mind us poor relations in
> UK...).
> Hope I haven't put you on a spot - that was not my intention.
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> Just want to clear things up!
> If you think Warner-Crivellaro is only known for its unique bevels then
> you really don't know us too well! (snip) So if you have any questions, you know
> how to reach me.
> Elenie
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Toby et all,
First of all, I want to thank everyone for their input on our web site.
We have taken your suggestions into account and you will be happy to
know that we do have a no frames version. I can take criticsm so let me
know what you think. Our address is: http://www. warner-criv. com. As
for receiving Warner-Crivellaro catalogs, well our mini supply catalogs
are free and do go out bulk rate. Once you become a current
customer, you are a part of our active mailing list and receive our
latest catalog as well as flyers and any updates right away. The only
other problem could be is if the address was left in our voice mailing
system and the telephone operators were not able to hear the address
clearly. They tell me that happens quite often. Potential customers
don't speak clearly enough. We are always sending out catalogs and I
apologize to those who didn't get one. We do value our customers as well
as potential ones. Thanks for speaking out Toby and you didn't put me on
the spot. By the way, our complete catalog will be online soon. Thanks
again,
Elenie
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 18:27:08 1997
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X-Path: fast.net!warnerc
From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:24:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb6.162427.0>
References: <<1997Feb3.152626.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

WLester380@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
>  Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
> body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
> help.
> Thanks, Bill
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Bill,
We do have cast butterfly bodies available. They are very detailed and
could be what you are looking for. Let me know if you want me to fax you
our catalog pages.
Elenie
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 20:55:42 1997
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3
From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha )
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: flipping a large panel
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:55:06 -0800
Message-ID: <199702070455.UAA03675@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You wrote: 
>
>
>Now we're talkin turkey..  the idea is to take the panel off the edge 
of the
>table enough so that you hit the balance point and pivot the panel to
>vertical with a crisp enough manouver so the panel has very little 
chance to
>bend. When putting it back on the table find that same point and flop 
that
>baby up there in one fell swoop. When this feat is accomplished with 
two
>people you can flip any size panel that you will ever see built. I 
flipped
>some 54 inch square panels with a guy that never did it before I told 
him to


This method does work well. We've flipped a panel @96" x 56" this way 
though I did try to work with an experienced person on that flip.

ms

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From owner-glass Thu Feb  6 23:01:36 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 01:30:52 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.93052.0>
References: <<199702060941.EAA18398@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks so much for the 1-800 number. I'll e-mail them right away.
Mary

On Thu, 6 Feb 1997 04:48:00 +0000 "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
writes:
>
>> Would they have a 1-800 number in which to call??
>
>You bet: Whittemore-Durgin Glass Co., PO Box 2065 NN, Hanover MA
>                      02339. Phone: (617) 871-1790. (800) 225-0380.
>                      Fax: (800) 786-3457. Email: jhepburn@penrose.com
>                      Website: http://www.penrose.com/glass 
>
>Albert
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>International Guild of Glass Artists
>A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 03:46:08 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Livethakly
From: Livethakly@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Opps, I was wrong about WC
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 06:45:35 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.14535.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

lcbell@memach.com (Linda Campbell) wrote:
>It was Whittemore-Durgin and I love their catalog. It's 
>full of wit and things I haven't seen elsewhere. 

I too loved their catalogue. I liked it so much I ordered from it, just
because of the witty way they put it together. (I usually mail order from WC)
I also ordered form WC, and Glass Crafters on the same day. My package from
WC came three days later, My package from GC came four days later, and I
still haven't gotten my stuff from WD (it's only been 8 days, not counting
the weekend, but you know how excited we all get when ordering new glass toys
to play with.........)  

Still Pulling My Hair Out in NY,
Laura
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 04:21:13 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 06:16:11 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116065433.2d9fcd50@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi;
        I have a friend who wants to do mosiac tiles for her kitchen cabinet
top.  I was thinking that she could use a white tile as a base for glueing
the glass on, grout with bathroom tile grout (the white [or colored] powder
that you add water to, sort of like cement... or even white cement without
any sand for that matter) then she can glue or cement the tiles to her
wooden counter top.... does this sound feasible?  Will the tiles hold up
under kitchen wear and tear... should she coat the surface with something?
Thanks for any help, Meg

At 08:01 AM 1/31/97 EST, you wrote:
>Karin asked:
><What do you use as a grout ?>
>
>Hi there Karin.  The techniques of stained glass and tile mosaics are the same.
>I use regular bathroom tile grout that you can purchase in any home improvement
>center.  I prefer the non-sanded version in white.  I have used the sanded
grout
>for plant pots, since it is more 'outdoorsy' than the fine, finished look
of the
>non-sanded grout.  Don't be fooled by the so called "special grout for stained
>glass".  Just pick up a box or bag of grout powder from the home improvement
>store.  Don't use the grout that is already mixed, as it dries out in the
>container and you waste a bunch of grout.  If you purchase the powdered grout,
>you just mix up a lot for what you need.  If you stick with white you can then
>add color to the mix to change up the grout color.
>
>Have fun!....Christie
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 04:21:13 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 06:16:14 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116065437.2d9fd8b0@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have been gone for ten days, maybe someone already caught this.... but I
hope it is supplies and not glass, that you are storing overhead.... I would
be very scared of getting glass down from overhead!!! Meg

At 12:45 PM 2/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
 I placed an up
>side down ceiling tile (cut to size) over the cutting board and store glass
>and  supplies overhead, and below. 
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 05:04:19 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 07:32:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.33252.0>
References: <<199702070007.AAA29300@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

Ok, Elisabeth and Toby,

First of all, please apologize to Toby for not realizing that it was HIS
web page, not yours. What are ya gonna do? I'm a human. He'll understand
that.

Secondly, let me tell you that I had to reach for the tissues when I
read your whale panel story. What a wonderful thing to happen!!

Thirdly, let's make a stab at this Atlas. But I warn you, I'm going to
send in the pattern for my kidney panel! But the first thing that we
have to do is volunteer Albert to edit the thing. I am sure that he is
sitting around desperately wanting yet another project on his already
full plate. However, he has access to all of us, whether we lurk or
practice verbosity. He has access to the printing guys 'cause to does
the Common Ground Glass magazine. And he has experience at this sort of
thing. But, I don't want to be the one to volunteer him. Let somebody
who has been around here longer than I do the dirty work. Hint hint.

As to the rest of your epistle, I agree in principle. I would only ask
that this *not* be something that we decide has to be done immediately,
and that we allow enough time for us to get together stuff we would
really like to share.

Perhaps this could be a promotional offering for Bungie Glass. If it
turns out halfway decent, it could be an annual or bi-annual thing. If
it ever becomes profitable, maybe we could get free subscriptions.
Maybe, at some point it could become a juried pattern book and the whole
world will wait in breathless anticipation of its publication and then
we will have the awards presentation on prime time TV and we can get Tom
Cruise to give out the awards...did I just get carried away? No one has
ever accuse me of not having a fantasy life. Sigh. Oh, well. In the
meantime, will you volunteer to ask Albert?

Your most glassy eyed servant,
Hilary

> 
> Hi Hilary,
> Toby says very much thank you for the  "ear-scratch" and the extra
> "plug" to admire HIS (repeat: HIS)  web-page.......
> The story of your cousin I find quite amazing and therefore your
> "kidney-panel" totally appropriate. Be proud of it ( and the
> "new-wife-to-be" had better have a sense of humour or I'll send a
> horde of Vikings to "deal" with her!!).
> I wish I could be proud of my "Victoria Falls" panel, but it
> positively makes me cringe......
> Now and then, I do get it right. I delivered a round port-hole 3
> ft-diameter panel last week to a customer. He and his wife
> have spent a lot of time in New Zealand (spelling?) and had studied a
> lot of marine life. They had fallen in love with humped-backed
> whales, which  was what they wanted me to do as a design. Quite
> contrary to my normal custom, I didn't show them my final design, nor
> did I seek their approval for my colour-mix. Quite out of character,
> I just went ahead and made it. So he (and his wife) had no idea what
> they were going to get. My heart in my socks, I started to unwrap my
> offering in front of this great, big, muscular 6ft 4 in. man. He just
> stood there and looked as I struggled with the weight and said not a
> word. I panicked and thought - Oh God, he doesn't like it!! When he
> finally spoke, he was choking..... I had to put the panel down and
> disappear out to the car and pretend I was getting tools out..... (In
> reality, I was fumbling around for the large box of tissues....).
> What a wonderful reward!!
> 
> As Regards "The Bungi Atlas Of Stained Glass", there was a little
> serious streak in me that spoke out.....
> YES! Let's have  some crazy  & fun ideas, but let's get serious too.
> Look at it this way; there is such a gold-mine of talent, dedication,
> love (of the medium), good-will, imagination, drawing skills,
> designing skills and sense of adventure amongst ALL  of our
> Bungi-crowd, that would make such a project as this immensely
> exciting. What a wonderful gift to pass on..... and what a promotion
> for Stained Glass!!
> There is about 20 hard-core energetic participants in the
> "Bungi-Group", a strong voice from Canada, Australia and New Zealand,
>  about a dozen occasional "learners/hobbyists" from anywhere and
> everywhere, , a quiet sprinkling from  Holland, Poland, UK (hmmm!)
>  and Korea (!). If each and everyone of ALL of us "donated"  1-2 of
> our OWN ddesigns each to the Atlas, we could end up with a collection
> of well over 100s of designs (if not more) across the World and across
> all abilities, designed and actually made by REAL stained glass folks
> (as opposed to conveyor-belt commercial graphic designers...).
> I would like to see contributions across the entire spectrum of
> knowledge, experience, ability and vision.
> As I see it, we need to establish first of all a kind of a "Birth
> Team" ( Editor, Co-Ordinator, Progress Chaser, Administrator,
> Finance Advisor, Promotions Expert, Publisher, Printer, Mediator and
> Time Keeper).
> Then we need to decide on Subject Matters ;  Copper-foil: ( sub-divided
> into lamps, 3d objects, sun catchers, fan-lamps etc)
> Lead (sub-divided into architectural (religeous, domestic,
> commercial), 3-d and what I call New-Lead sun-catcher field;
> as well as
> Etching
> engraving
> sand-blasting
> mosaics
> painting (kiln and non-kiln)
> hot glass
> bead-making
> any more??
> 
> Initially, just as a kind of "sampler"  by stained glass artists
> speaking to those out there interested in what Stained Glass is all
> about. There are a fair number of "learned tomes" by the Giants, old
> and new. THIS should be a light-hearted, informative, inspirational
> "idea-nurturing" Atlas that says ... "YESSSS!!!" I can do it!!
> The initial publication would not be geared to earning us mega-bucks.
> It wouldn't earn us a single cent. It would be a promotional offering
> and any money arising out of it, to be put in a "Trust Fund" to
> finance a talented stained glass aspirant to learn/study more.
> Terribly idealistic??
> Yeah, maybe...
> Possible???    You Bet!!
> In-put?? That depends on YOU....
> More ideas???    ...Up to YOU....
> 
> (Dear "T" in Montana,  you will receive a hand-drawn copy of  my
> Tree-of-Life design. It wouldn't photocopy............ is in
> hand..........)
> 
> Forgotten now who asked for the first "ball" to be thrown. I have
> thrown ONE ball.. Any others...??
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 05:24:12 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:23:50 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970207082511.1bc78ef0@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Meg .... Thanks for the thought, perhaps I did not explain myself correctly.
The Microwave stand that I use is made of sturdy oak.  The "box" that I
store the glass in is 24" across 18" high and 24" deep.  It is not over MY
head but supported over the Cutting Board by an oak panel board frame. Think
of it as a section of kitchen cupboards and the over heard cupboard does not
have a door in it.   I store small pieces of glass (12" X 12") vertically in
the box, large sheets are also stored vertically on the shelves below.  

At 06:16 AM 2/7/97 -0600, you wrote:
>I have been gone for ten days, maybe someone already caught this.... but I
>hope it is supplies and not glass, that you are storing overhead.... I would
>be very scared of getting glass down from overhead!!! Meg
>
>At 12:45 PM 2/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
> I placed an up
>>side down ceiling tile (cut to size) over the cutting board and store glass
>>and  supplies overhead, and below. 
>>
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life, Cornell University
255-5960

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 05:57:23 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 07:52:16 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116083041.2d178e4e@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Debi;
        I was away, so am a bit late in answering!  I put up peg board at
the beggining of the year, and wished I'd done it a long time ago... its
wonderful!!!!  I have a grinder bench with shelves under it.  a Cutting
table with a shelf, and a glass storage cabinet that I had made for me.
full sheet size slots under then a small surface area with another set of
slots set at the back for larger left overs, then a slanted place way at top
with little wooden boxes for other yet smaller pieces I want to keep.  I
have a cardboard box for other small leftovers, would like to switch to
something else for that.  behind all this I have a slot where card board
sheets, came etc goes..... if you (or anyone) wants a drawing of this
cabinet send me your snail mail address! I also have in another part book
shelves, filing cabinets, and a light table.  It is warm here year around so
I also have a large cement sink outside for washing.  (This is all on the
second floor of the barn (over the riding stable business)  My mother shares
this space with me so all her oil and water color things are there, as are
my two kids who homeschool.... how do we all fit?  the space is about 5 or 6
meters sq.   Meg

At 06:59 PM 1/28/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
>storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
>a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
>misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?  
>
>Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all the
>help I can get.
>
>Thanks all.
>
>Debi in Gunnison
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 05:57:24 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3-D
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 07:52:10 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116083035.2d17839e@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Delphi sells the bodies.  Also I made one shaping a bit of copper tubing and
adding solder eyes etc...  Meg


At 08:39 PM 2/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>WLester380@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> I'm looking for someone who can do some 3-D design for foil wrap work.
>>  Briefly, I want to make 3-D butterflies.  The wings aren't a problem but the
>> body is since I envision an enclosed tubular design.  I'd appreciate any
>> help.
>> Thanks, Bill
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>they do make a lead casting, at least for nymph like things. they should
>have one for butterflies. you can also sculpt it from copper sheets like
>making a tin foil weenie. 
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>-- 
>Mike's Stained Glass
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>
>New Pages Added:
>
> - More Tips and Techniques
> - How to Fix Mistakes
> - The History of My Shop
> - My Adventures of Mold Making
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 05:57:58 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: pricing Tiffany lamps
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 07:52:07 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116083032.2d9f6ecc@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 05:22 PM 2/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
>Hi Carol, if the only people building shades were doing quality work and not
>being paid pennies a day as in the orient and third world countries we would
>have no competition.
>
 I look at the
>LESS than skilled craftsmen in a lot of fields (carpentry, plumbing, auto
>repair, consulting, etc.; if I have left anyone out of this list, my humble
>apologies) and see what their hours are billed at....I am BETTER!!!!!, I am
>selling a LUXURY!!!!
>
>

I have been trying to think of a way to explain a different view point on
the cheap work from third world countries.... maybe I have it now.  As I
haven't seen what you are reffering too, I can't remark on quality.....
obviously as a craftsman, I would like to see good quality!!!! BUT..... As
several people have mentioned, we should get as much as mechanics, plumbing
repair etc...... AT LEAST.... well, here in Costa Rica they get from $1.00
to $5.00 an hour.......The whole economy is set up for cheaper labor (I
won't even go into possible reasons for this!).  So when I have to price
something, I have to compare my wages with other local wages....not US of UK
ones, and that means I earn less than you would for a similar panel.  I
won't sell anything if I charged $40.00/hr.  And we, like the UK people have
to import all our materials from the USA and pay custums duties and shipping
on them.  Maybe it is cheaper to live here, or the standard of living
expectancy is lower??  I figure if I get all my expenses, and a equivalent
local salary, I am lucky to be able to do what I love!!!  Meg
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 06:36:02 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 09:29:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.42934.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970116065433.2d9fcd50@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> Hi;
>         I have a friend who wants to do mosiac tiles for her kitchen cabinet
> top.  I was thinking that she could use a white tile as a base for glueing
> the glass on, grout with bathroom tile grout (the white [or colored] powder
> that you add water to, sort of like cement... or even white cement without
> any sand for that matter) then she can glue or cement the tiles to her
> wooden counter top.... does this sound feasible?  Will the tiles hold up
> under kitchen wear and tear... should she coat the surface with something?
> Thanks for any help, Meg
> 
> At 08:01 AM 1/31/97 EST, you wrote:
> >Karin asked:
> ><What do you use as a grout ?>
> >
> >Hi there Karin.  The techniques of stained glass and tile mosaics are the same.
> >I use regular bathroom tile grout that you can purchase in any home improvement
> >center.  I prefer the non-sanded version in white.  I have used the sanded
> grout
> >for plant pots, since it is more 'outdoorsy' than the fine, finished look
> of the
> >non-sanded grout.  Don't be fooled by the so called "special grout for stained
> >glass".  Just pick up a box or bag of grout powder from the home improvement
> >store.  Don't use the grout that is already mixed, as it dries out in the
> >container and you waste a bunch of grout.  If you purchase the powdered grout,
> >you just mix up a lot for what you need.  If you stick with white you can then
> >add color to the mix to change up the grout color.
> >
> >Have fun!....Christie
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> >
> Richard and Meg LaVal
> apdo. 24-5655
> Monteverde
> COSTA RICA
> tel: 506 645 5052
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


when tiling on wood you would normally use Marine Plywood, it sound
feasable you would do the same for glass. or try using cement board,
that should definitly work.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 06:44:43 1997
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X-Path: bridge.net!athena
From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:49:42 +0000
Message-ID: <199702071443.JAA06716@brickell.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Meg,

I haven't tried this yet, so take what I say with that grain of salt. 
But I've given it much thought because I wanted to do stained glass 
mosaics in the new kitchen we're building now.

I've been discouraged from using stained glass on the counter ... 
told it would be likely to crack under the stress of dropped objects 
and the heat of pots from the stove. I'm not convinced, but I think 
that Byzantine type  mosaics might be a better medium, or better 
yeyt, porcelain mosaics or glazed ceramic mosaics.

Why does she plan to apply the mosaic to a white tile and then put 
the tile on the countertop? Why not directly to the wood?

Unsanded "bathroom tile" grout is available, and can be used where 
the grout joints are smaller than 1/8".

Hope this helps.

:D

M.-J.

On  7 Feb 97, you shaped the electrons to say:

> Hi;
>         I have a friend who wants to do mosiac tiles for her kitchen
>         cabinet
> top.  I was thinking that she could use a white tile as a base for
> glueing the glass on, grout with bathroom tile grout (the white [or
> colored] powder that you add water to, sort of like cement... or
> even white cement without any sand for that matter) then she can
> glue or cement the tiles to her wooden counter top.... does this
> sound feasible?  Will the tiles hold up under kitchen wear and
> tear... should she coat the surface with something? Thanks for any
> help, Meg
> 
> At 08:01 AM 1/31/97 EST, you wrote:
> >Karin asked:
> ><What do you use as a grout ?>
> >
> >Hi there Karin.  The techniques of stained glass and tile mosaics
> >are the same. I use regular bathroom tile grout that you can
> >purchase in any home improvement center.  I prefer the non-sanded
> >version in white.  I have used the sanded
> grout
> >for plant pots, since it is more 'outdoorsy' than the fine,
> >finished look
> of the
> >non-sanded grout.  Don't be fooled by the so called "special grout
> >for stained glass".  Just pick up a box or bag of grout powder from
> >the home improvement store.  Don't use the grout that is already
> >mixed, as it dries out in the container and you waste a bunch of
> >grout.  If you purchase the powdered grout, you just mix up a lot
> >for what you need.  If you stick with white you can then add color
> >to the mix to change up the grout color.
> >
> >Have fun!....Christie
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives
> >available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> >
> Richard and Meg LaVal
> apdo. 24-5655
> Monteverde
> COSTA RICA
> tel: 506 645 5052
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To
> send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives
> available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails.

 
                                              |\                ( )
 _____________________________________________|_\_____________________
                                              -----             -_-_
                                                               -- - -
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 07:09:59 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: pricing Tiffany lamps
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:09:22 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970207101043.0a47087c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Meg ....                        Thank you for saying this in such a
thoughtful way.... 
I seems to me comparing wages between stained glass crafters and mechanics,
plumbers and other trades would be like comparing pianos and violins.  One
thought does occur however,   when my toilet is broken and my car will not
get me to the store ...... and the plumber and the mechanic buy my stained
glass.... so that I can pay them .... helps me to understand the full circle
of community .
                        

At 07:52 AM 2/7/97 -0600, you wrote:
>At 05:22 PM 2/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>>
>>Hi Carol, if the only people building shades were doing quality work and not
>>being paid pennies a day as in the orient and third world countries we would
>>have no competition.
>>
> I look at the
>>LESS than skilled craftsmen in a lot of fields (carpentry, plumbing, auto
>>repair, consulting, etc.; if I have left anyone out of this list, my humble
>>apologies) and see what their hours are billed at....I am BETTER!!!!!, I am
>>selling a LUXURY!!!!
>>
>>
>
>I have been trying to think of a way to explain a different view point on
>the cheap work from third world countries.... maybe I have it now.  As I
>haven't seen what you are reffering too, I can't remark on quality.....
>obviously as a craftsman, I would like to see good quality!!!! BUT..... As
>several people have mentioned, we should get as much as mechanics, plumbing
>repair etc...... AT LEAST.... well, here in Costa Rica they get from $1.00
>to $5.00 an hour.......The whole economy is set up for cheaper labor (I
>won't even go into possible reasons for this!).  So when I have to price
>something, I have to compare my wages with other local wages....not US of UK
>ones, and that means I earn less than you would for a similar panel.  I
>won't sell anything if I charged $40.00/hr.  And we, like the UK people have
>to import all our materials from the USA and pay custums duties and shipping
>on them.  Maybe it is cheaper to live here, or the standard of living
>expectancy is lower??  I figure if I get all my expenses, and a equivalent
>local salary, I am lucky to be able to do what I love!!!  Meg
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life, Cornell University
255-5960

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 07:25:00 1997
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X-Path: ibm.net!mstreng
From: Martin Streng <mstreng@ibm.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:15:54 +0100
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970207151554.0067b8f8@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Great idea! 
I could make a contribution of at least 2 sun-catchers.
One suncatcher is a 2-dimension translation of a small statue, depicting a
man embracing a woman ("very 60-ties" according to my teacher). It has a
very special place in my heart and it is untill now the only piece i am
really satisfied with.
The other is a turtle Dick Bruna stile, it was made for a new-born. It has
some very interesting design-aspects, mainly about strength.

But who should i send them to?


At 00:26 7-02-97 +0000, you wrote (my editing):
>Hi Hilary,
>
>As Regards "The Bungi Atlas Of Stained Glass", there was a little 
>serious streak in me that spoke out.....
>YES! Let's have  some crazy  & fun ideas, but let's get serious too.
>If each and everyone of ALL of us "donated"  1-2 of 
>our OWN ddesigns each to the Atlas, we could end up with a collection 
>of well over 100s of designs (if not more) across the World and across 
>all abilities, designed and actually made by REAL stained glass folks 
>(as opposed to conveyor-belt commercial graphic designers...).
>I would like to see contributions across the entire spectrum of 
>knowledge, experience, ability and vision.
>
Martin Streng

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 08:11:15 1997
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From: Tomi Reneau <reneau@fls.infi.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:14:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.61410.0>
References: <<1.5.4.32.19970207151554.0067b8f8@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net>>
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Thanks for asking that question!  Been wondering myself.  Almost 95% of
my work is original design, but I wouldn't mind sharing.  So far, I've
just been an observer, but am willing to participate in any way needed.
This is a good project, people.  Let's do it!
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 08:31:37 1997
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From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:30:56 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <9702071630.AA25287@crosfield.co.uk>
References: <<199702071443.JAA06716@brickell.bridge.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> I've given it much thought because I wanted to do stained glass 
> mosaics in the new kitchen we're building now.
> 
> I've been discouraged from using stained glass on the counter ... 
> told it would be likely to crack under the stress of dropped objects 
> and the heat of pots from the stove.

One possible idea that you could consider, if you really want to
use stained glass: You can get glass chopping boards - they're supposed
to be some specially tempered glass that can handle hot pans; Usually
they're painted underneath, but I think I remember seeing plain ones as
well. If so, maybe you could use one as a protective top over the
stained glass, in a sort of drop-in sandwich/cover arrangement? They
may be somewhat textured though, which could make the idea a non-starter -
but it might be worth looking at if a local store carries them. 


-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 08:34:02 1997
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: pj friend <artglass@waterw.com>
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:30:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.03012.0>
References: <<9702070124.AA11116@water.waterw.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All.  pj friend said he didn't mention anything about supporting a
local supplier and thought perhaps I had.  I don't remember saying such,
notice I don't deny it but I haven't used a local supplier in many a year.
First, because they mark up the merchandise from 500 to 1000 percent in
some instances and in order for me to charge competetive rates to my
customers, I am unable to deal with that.  Also, the only one in a 75 mile
radius only keeps the most inexpensive glass and I simply need a better
selection.  If I need something before I can get back to my suppliers, I
do pay retail and get no discount because I am "in thee business."  PJ
from CA.

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 18:31:12 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: commission agreements
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:25:58 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116115717.2cf7532c@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi fellow forum members;
        A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about it
more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.

1.  It seems only fair to tell the client at the outset, how much a project
will cost.  However, if you haven't an approved design, how do you know how
much to charge?  The kind of glass, the number of pieces etc... are still
unknowns...

2. This particular agreement which I kept a copy of, has a warranty
section... which seems only fair to the client.  However what is the usual
period of years that one guarantees the workmanship and materials for?

I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 


Thanks for any advice or comments on this one, and thanks for the advice on
the Mosiac question!     Meg
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 18:44:19 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:50:07 +0000
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> I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
> design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 

A third, a third and a third  is a quite common formula, but yours 
sounds workable too.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 18:55:34 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: photos of glass
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 19:56:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.125628.0>
References: <<199702031840.NAA13204@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

... terrific German full antique that
> downloads *fast! It's the Glashuette Lambert home page at
> http://www.lamberts.de
> 
> Great stuff.
> 
Hey Albert, thanks for the great tip.  This site has great pictures of
the glass, and since I live in the boonies and have to mail-order most
of my stuff, at least I get an idea of what I'm buying.

And thanks everyone for the great storage tips.  

-Debi
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:00:48 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:00:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.17013.0>
References: <<9702071630.AA25287@crosfield.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I like Jerry's idea of the glass chopping board to protect the mosaic
beneath.  Now, can someone with a functional web browser check on Corning
Glass... I bet they have a variety of things like that.

On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Jerry Cullingford wrote:

> > I've given it much thought because I wanted to do stained glass 
> > mosaics in the new kitchen we're building now.
> > 
> > I've been discouraged from using stained glass on the counter ... 
> > told it would be likely to crack under the stress of dropped objects 
> > and the heat of pots from the stove.
> 
> One possible idea that you could consider, if you really want to
> use stained glass: You can get glass chopping boards - they're supposed
> to be some specially tempered glass that can handle hot pans; Usually
> they're painted underneath, but I think I remember seeing plain ones as
> well. If so, maybe you could use one as a protective top over the
> stained glass, in a sort of drop-in sandwich/cover arrangement? They
> may be somewhat textured though, which could make the idea a non-starter -
> but it might be worth looking at if a local store carries them. 
> 
> 
> -- 
>    _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
>   / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
>   \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
> \__/     -----------------------------------------------------
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:08:26 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:11:55 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.201155.0>
References: <<199702050411.EAA14683@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:

Elizabeth,

It was so sad to here the state of stained glass in the UK.. Again, I 
feel that I live the  sheltered live and take so much for common.  If I 
can ever help in your endevours, leave me know.
3 hounds


> Maybe it might still be in the Bungi Archives somewhere, but quite a
> number of months ago I posted a "historical rambling" to the effect
> of that the glass manufacturing (for stained glass) died in UK with the
> Advent of Oliver Cromwell. He was was the fellow who went about
> smashing up churches in UK. He didn't only smash up churches, he also
> smashed up and destroyed the manufacturers who made ornamentations
> for the churches, i.e. especially and including  stained glass
> artists studios and glass making studios/workshops. The stained glass
> "industry" in UK never really recovered from this devastation and many
> glass making techniques were lost forever.Compensations were then
> brought into the UK from elsewhere in Europe, especially the
> Flemish/Dutch and German artists. But don't forget, they too suffered
> the vagaries of wars and destructions. A re-birth of sorts in UK
> really only happened in the 19th Century with William Morris. Since
> when there are a couple of British Glass manufacturers producing
> glass for the stained glass industry. But a couple only. But the majority of glass we
> use today are imported from USA, Germany, France, Belgium and
> now Poland. Slowly and often painfully, we are trying to reconstruct
> destroyed past history and bring it into context of the 20th and 21st
> Century.The impact of Tiffany in Britain was quite substantial, not
> so much  in his designs and flamboyance,( which somehow doesn't appear
> to fit well with the British "pallet"), - the conservative Brits still
> find him "over the top", but much more resulting in a new surge of historical
> interest in the stained glass tradition and its revival. John Piper
> and Patrick Reyntiens - the 2 giants in Britain of stained glass of
> the 20th Century, never quite reached the emotional "common man" chord. Too
> academic, too remote, too dry, too abstract - I just don't know. What
> has caught the "common man's" imagination in Britain is the revival
> of the Arts & Crafts Movement, Victorian and Art Nouveau stained
> glass. I myself have been "lauded" for my Arts & Crafts Movement
> interptretations, before I even knew what the term meant. I sit here
> in betwixt and between, often slightly bewildered by my education
> of Swedish and Scandinavian design and aim for simplicity and force
> of simple statements and structures, and most of all - colours.Quite
> frankly, my Swedish education just did not extend to cover the
> British Arts & Crafts Movement.... however extensive that education was.
> In Britain, people who like stained glass and chose it as something
> they want to live with, still don't know what they want and why, as
> long as it cannot be interpreted as something "over the top".
> My students come all eager on their first day to my courses - they
> want to make a Tiffany-style lamp (you know! the sort off thing you
> just make up in 10 minutes or so!! Nothing to it!) When I discuss it
> with them as an object for them to have in their living room, to
> switch on and off, to live with, they "turn turtle" and back out.
> They like the idea of making one, but they can't quite accept the
> idea of "living" with one. For flamboyance and excuberance of
> coloured glass we have to look outside UK. It's a fascinating facet
> to watch, observe and study for someone like myself, but bewildering
> and often confusing to work with.
> Dunno here, hope I have given you the "flavour" of stained glass
> past and present here in Europe. I work mainly in lead, which is not
> to say that I don't follow the copper-foil people very closely.
> History is immensly important, as is attempted destruction of
> history. Stained glass just managed to avoid total extinction in UK,
> but it is still trying to find its way and to find its role....
> Elisabeth 'n Toby (2 lost souls in UK)
> 
> M.-J. wrote:
> >
> > Jerry wrote:
> >
> > >(*Sigh* - why is it always cheaper to get things from the US rather than
> > >locally in the UK? At least with stained glass, a lot of things are *made* in
> > >the US - but why Chinese brush painting stuff should be cheaper via the US
> > >is beyond me.
> > <snip>
> 
> Not to change the subject, but what are your glass manufacturers like...
> Are the European glasses different from the American
> manufacturers...What are your colours like .>
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:11:45 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:15:21 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.201521.0>
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Elsie Turqman wrote:
> 
>  Gloria
> 
> The liquid dish soap probably didn't scratch your glasses.  If you dried
> them with paper towels the reinforcing fibers in the paper probably did the
> scratching.  I found this out after ruining a new pair of lenses.  Most of
> the paper towels on the market are advertising how strong they are, that's
> because they are totally paper anymore.  I don't know what they are but they
> scratch plastic.  Dry your lenses with clean soft cotton and old dish towel
> or old diaper, (yes they still make cloth diapers and they have many uses.
> 
> Elsie

I will try that
Thank you
> >
> >Bud,
> >I hope you are doing better...Was the plastic lens an
> >surgical insertion...
> >I might have been cleaning my glass with liquid dish soap and water,
> >which might have caused the scratches to the lens.. But I am more
> >worried about the eye conditon you have.. glass lenses can be replaced..
> >hope you are doing well and Thanks.
>  >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:16:05 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:19:38 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.201938.0>
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M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Elsie Turqman wrote:
> >
> >  Gloria
> >
> > The liquid dish soap probably didn't scratch your glasses.  If you dried
> > them with paper towels the reinforcing fibers in the paper probably did the
> > scratching.  I found this out after ruining a new pair of lenses.  Most of
> > the paper towels on the market are advertising how strong they are, that's
> > because they are totally paper anymore.  I don't know what they are but they
> > scratch plastic.  Dry your lenses with clean soft cotton and old dish towel
> > or old diaper, (yes they still make cloth diapers and they have many uses.
> >
> > Elsie
> > >
> > >Bud,
> > >I hope you are doing better...Was the plastic lens an
> > >surgical insertion...
> > >I might have been cleaning my glass with liquid dish soap and water,
> > >which might have caused the scratches to the lens.. But I am more
> > >worried about the eye conditon you have.. glass lenses can be replaced..
> > >hope you are doing well and Thanks.
> >  >
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> and of course there's reg. tissues. the other thing that might have
> scratched them is the grinder. and spray that come out either has tiny
> chips of glass, or powder suspended in water. once wiped off that will
> scratch too.

Mike
I switched glasses from the grinder to the soldering station.. The 
glasses from the grinder were never effected.. If I had not switched, 
that would have been a good cause for the scratched lenses. I use glass 
flux, maybe?? I am finding different fluxes act differently. 
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:21:31 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:25:07 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.20257.0>
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Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi, I am new to this group, why would Elizabeth scratch Toby behind the
> > ears..Remember, I am 3hounds.
> 
> Oh, dear, if you don't know that Toby is an Old English Sheepdog, that
> comment might even be weirder than the kindney panel!
> 
> There is a rather nice picture of Toby on Elisabeth's home page...along
> with stained glass, of course. <g>
> 
> Hilary

Thanks for the final clarification...I was finally wondering if Toby was 
a pup or a cat.. either was great.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:24:50 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic glass cutters
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:28:25 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.202825.0>
References: <<1997Feb5.15361.0>>
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maruca@netaxs.com wrote:
> 
> Today I took a busman's holiday and visited our friend Christie's favorite
> place, Inspirations (Eagleville PA). The owner answered my questions about
> the pricey Leponitt cutters, then said the magic words, "Would you like to
> try them?"
> 
> They are so fast and easy to use that I couldn't wait, I paid retail on
> 'em and was glad to get them!
> 
> Mary

Yes, I also love them.. They save a lot of grinder bits for me.
> 
> On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Jerri M Roey wrote:
> 
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> >       What is *Thin-Set*?  Like a glue? Then do you grout over the
> > glass?  Were you talking about using glass on stones that were already
> > made?  I've been reading with interest about the mosaic cutters.  I've
> > been making stones using my scrap glass to fill the background and
> > thought I might like some.  I cut my background pieces pretty small.  So
> > far I've poured my own cement and haven't tried making any with pre-made
> > stones.
> >
> > Jerri
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:04:00 -0500 (EST) CUTLER@Wittenberg.EDU writes:
> > >Hi. Bob Cutler here.  <snip>
> > >The trouble with this pattern book - and
> > >others, I imagine - is that it really doesn't encourage the
> > >use of those pesky scraps which I refuse to throw away :) :).
> > >SO since I own a pair of the mosaic glass cutters, and wanted to
> > >use them, I decided to experiment:
> > >I bought a hexagonal patio stone.  I bought a bag of Thin-Set
> > >which is used to lay ceramic tile over concrete surfaces. I gathered
> > >my scraps and trimmed them to suit and hatched a pattern on the spot
> > >After laying out a rough design, I prepared the thin-set and
> > >applied it to the stone, followed by the glass.  It was a bit messy
> > >but that was my fault for using too much thin-set.  I made sure that
> > >there was an empty space between each piece of glass.  After a
> > >bit of time called for on the thin-set package I applied grout.
> > >I like the result well enough to try again.  It takes less time,
> > >allows the use of the cutters, and is as much fun as the more formal
> > >patterns.
> > >
> > >In short I love the cutters.
> > >----
> > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:26:42 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scratched glasses
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:30:11 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.203011.0>
References: <<199702060442.WAA12093@bucky.win.bright.net>>
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Harold De Vos wrote:
> 
> re: Bud's eye : one eye blinded by solder fumes??
> Yes it was a surgical insertion and a miracle.  They injected something,
> then told me I could go to sleep if i wished.
> 
> But Then turned on the brightest light I have ever seen. I thought >  no
> way I could sleep, but within 10 seconds, I could care less about what he
> was doing and did snooze!  Just two hours later, i could see the beautiful
> world again and with BOTH eyes.  It actually made my sight better because
> the new lens was made to correct some, but not all of my near sightedness!
> 
> Take care!

That is great to hear... I have achey problems...but could never imagine 
lost of sight...
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:35:25 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:38:51 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.203851.0>
References: <<199702070007.AAA29290@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:

Elizabeth,
That is one of the most enjoyable lifes I have ever read... My Borois 
should have such a wonderful life in the fields..they do do alot for my 
gardens.. enjoy the coming of spring.
> 
> Hi "3hounds"
> 
> When I first got launched on the "Internet", I was in the care of a
> "perfect English Gentleman", who felt the need to protect me as a
> woman, as an artiste and as a potential victim in the Internet
> Jungle. He is also a very senior computer consultant with a large
> international computer company in UK. Also a very cherished
> stained glass customer to-have-become-a-close-personal- friend. (The
> peacock design on my home page was made for him). His
> name is Kris and he is the author of my WEB-page. He chose as my
> pseudonym "Toby", which is the name of my Old English Sheepdog
> Braybark Toby Tobias. The trouble is, that Toby has developed his OWN
> personality and impact on my life and my work. He is my "stress management
> policy", he shows me the very basic requirements and values in life;
> he constantly reminds me of my roots to nature and simplicity of
> Life's Requirements. He demands of me that I am in touch with Things
> that Grow. He also demands of me that I participate in very basic
> pleasures and inspirations. He also reminds me that even the
> "grandest world-wide financial genius, pontificator, and
> what-have-you" is no different from you and I, with their pants down
> across a toilet bowl with an upset tummy.......... (Imagine Bill
> Gates..!)  ... Old English have a very delicate digestive system....
> 
> Within that context, I stalk the Hertfordshiure countryside in rubber
> boots, across muddy fields and - often - pouring rain, behind this
> defiant Old English "rump", totally determined to show me HIS latest
> discoveries and treasure troves.  Some times it's a white albino deer
> stag with his harem of female deers crossing the fields at sunset,
> some times it is a clutch of baby hedgehogs, or a warren of hares or
> rabbits; now and then it's an orphan fox vixen.. In the photograph on
>  my web-page it was just the
> intoxicating smell of blue-bells just in full bloom that he insisted
> I should share with him. Last March to last October ny stained glass
> was full of hues of BLUE from the blue-bell impressions he showed me.
> It's a bit crazy, Toby loves smelling flowers....
> (He loves digging them up too in my garden, the little "bugger"....)
> THAT is Toby Tobias, great-nephew of Braybark Bold Baron Trooper, who
> was the Du Pont Dulux paint advertisment "son". Toby Tobias is not
> the first "Master" of this household, but the third. A Victoria Plum
> Tree and an Old English Oak Tree in my garden mark previous
> generations. I have even made 24 lbs of plum jam last autumn. A
> typical English Breakfast is planned for this Easter to my US Bungi
> friends, complete with Victoria Plum Jam on toast......
> 
> My stained glass interpretations - as I see my contribution -  are simple, structural,
> functional and adhering totally in colour to where they will finally
> "live". I am very much a person of "LIFE" and movement. Toby Tobias helps
>  me to peel away much of the Sophistication and Intellectualism of debates
> about "Meaning of Life". His great, big 2 inch nose is close to the
> ground, close to Mother Earth and so often shows me where I should
> really look. He has developed his own little "fan-mail" on the
> Internet. He is a very gentle, cheeky, fun-loving clown and was/is
> totally appropriate to "fronting" me in his very earthy values.
> He also loves having his ears scratched.....
> That is the Story of Braybark Toby Tobias and his ears
> Me - I am just learning to create Stained Glass.
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> You wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I am new to this group, why would Elizabeth scratch Toby behind the
> > ears..Remember, I am 3hounds.
> 
> Oh, dear, if you don't know that Toby is an Old English Sheepdog, that
> comment might even be weirder than the kindney panel!
> 
> There is a rather nice picture of Toby on Elisabeth's home page...along
> with stained glass, of course. <g>
> 
> Hilary
> 
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 19:37:46 1997
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From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: re:  distorted lamp patterns
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:35:47 -0500
Message-ID: <199702080339.WAA00132@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

This may be a little late, but I was taught this trick by a SG friend. 
When you are making multiple copies of a pattern (say for a 6 sided panel
lamp), make each copy individually instead of pressing "6" copies all at
once.  If you do multiple copies, each one will be off and depending on
the copier up to 1/8 of an inch!  This has worked for me.  Hope it helps.

We have a copier at my new job that is a perfect example of frustration in
action.  If you copy at the 100% setting, your copies are actually printed
at 101%.  So to get an accurate copy of the original, you must reduce to
98%. . . 

----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 20:14:46 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: photos of glass
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 23:10:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.181049.0>
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Organization: @Home Network
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Thanks from me too, and try this site that I found while surfing
around---

http://www.glass.com/gl10000.htm

it lists lots of glass manufacturers-and has a new swiss site-great
pictures


Debi Overton wrote:
> 
> ... terrific German full antique that
> > downloads *fast! It's the Glashuette Lambert home page at
> > http://www.lamberts.de
> >
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 20:49:39 1997
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To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: ] Ma Bell is reaching for our pockets again.]
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:53:44 -0800
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I am forwarding this to everyone in my address book to help gain support
to block this legislation against the net.

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<DT>I am forwarding this to everyone in my address book to help gain support
to block this legislation against the net. &nbsp;</DT>

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Return-Path: <tmorg@clnk.com>
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          for <j_d_buch@clnk.com>; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:09:24 -0600
From: tmorg@clnk.com (Tony Morgan)
To:       j_d_buch@clnk.com <j_d_buch@clnk.com>
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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:09:24 -0600
Message-ID: <19970207140755769.ACT76@Tmorg>

PLEASE READ AND ACT!  THIS AFFECT ALL OF US!
 
List of House of Reps:

	http://clerkweb.house.gov/members/house.htm?57,22

List of Senators' published email addresses:

	http://www.senate.gov/senator/membmail.html

 I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter
 currently under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has
 filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your
 internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the
 operation of the telephone network.

 It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were
 required to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an
 email box for your comments, responses must be received by February
 13, 1997. Send your comments to 

	isp@fcc.gov 

 and tell them what you think.

 Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak
 it in just under the wire for litiagation. Let everyone you know here
 this one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you can think of.

	isp@fcc.gov

Please forward this email to all your friends on the internet so all
our voices may be heard!



------------6CDC324A121B0--



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From owner-glass Fri Feb  7 23:21:09 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 02:20:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb7.212040.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am ordering from Delphi for the first time and they offer a 25% discount on
the first order (very generous, I think).  I've also seen messages alluding
to their fall sales.  Do they also offer a 25% discount each fall?  If they
do, it would reorder the priorities of what I'm going to be ordering right
now and what I could wait until the fall to purchase.  Does anyone know?  TIA
for any info on this!  

Susie
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 07:49:09 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:47:58 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.154758.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


We take two approaches ...... with a private residential commission it's
10-25% upon agrement of the pattern, then the balance due upon installation
or delivery ..... with commercial (builders or contractors) we ask for
50-75% up front, then the balance due upon installation or delivery.
Generally, our residential commissions are smaller jobs where our resources
are not tied up for extended periods, so there is little strain to keep
cashflow up while the job is in progress.  However, some commercial jobs may
take months to complete, so if we do not take a large deposit up front, we
can't pay the bills while the job is in progress.  Just consider the length
of the job, how much of your internal resources are going to be involved,
and make sure you stage payments so you can meet your bills.  Surely, your
client will find this approach only fair.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

 

At 02:25 AM 2/8/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi fellow forum members;
>        A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
>contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
>coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about it
>more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.
>
>1.  It seems only fair to tell the client at the outset, how much a project
>will cost.  However, if you haven't an approved design, how do you know how
>much to charge?  The kind of glass, the number of pieces etc... are still
>unknowns...
>
>2. This particular agreement which I kept a copy of, has a warranty
>section... which seems only fair to the client.  However what is the usual
>period of years that one guarantees the workmanship and materials for?
>
>I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
>design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 
>
>
>Thanks for any advice or comments on this one, and thanks for the advice on
>the Mosiac question!     Meg
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 08:04:35 1997
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Patterns
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 11:00:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.6031.0>
References: <<199702050411.EAA14683@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

Maybe everyone knows this, but while I was looking for a pattern of
"Bamboo" I was also doing some artwork in MS Publisher 2.0-where I not
only found the clip art,and sized it to what I was looking for,  but
printed it out on my color printer in just the size I wanted-5 1/2
inches wide by 19 1/2 inches long. To print this size on most printers
it will be "tiled on 2 sheets". Easy to stick together.  I have
completely overlooked the "clip art" in my computer-and feel a little
silly. This bamboo design is part of a larger piece, so if you need a
design, or part of a design-try your "clip art" gallery. 

Just an idea I thought I would pass along, this 'old dog' can still
learn new tricks. :-)

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 08:28:44 1997
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X-Path: scv.net!fullspec
From: Kay Allen <fullspec@scv.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 08:24:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970208162443.00667ed4@mail.scv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Elisabeth,

While catching up on my mail today I came across this marvelous descriptive
narrative of yours and just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed it.  You
are definitely someone I'd like to know.  Please keep inspiring us.

Kay

At 00:26 7-02-97 +0000, you wrote:

From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 08:56:58 1997
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X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz
From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 10:55:17 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702081655.KAA03532@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 08:25 PM 2/7/97 -0600, Richard LaVal wrote:
>Hi fellow forum members;
>        A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
>contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
>coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about it
>more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.
>
>1.  It seems only fair to tell the client at the outset, how much a project
>will cost.  However, if you haven't an approved design, how do you know how
>much to charge?  The kind of glass, the number of pieces etc... are still
>unknowns...

Initially you can suggest a range of prices based on the factors you
mentioned above.
The bonus is that you can get *feel* for the kind of money a potential
client might be willing to spend and proceed accordingly

>2. This particular agreement which I kept a copy of, has a warranty
>section... which seems only fair to the client.  However what is the usual
>period of years that one guarantees the workmanship and materials for?

There is really no hard and fast standard for this I would think that a
minimum of 5 years would be acceptable many offer lifetime, some do not
offer any at all. 
You have to consider that some panel installations are more vunerable to
damage ( doors and operable windows) then others and the client should be
aware of where your liability ends. 

>I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
>design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 

To me the key here is that you are covered thoughout the process. A  small
non-refundable initial design fee which tests the seriousness of the clients
intent  followed by a percentage that will cover your outlay for materials
and supplies. I usually go 10% (or $100 min) 40% 50% I know it's not always
possible but try to avoid putting pencil to paper... or mouse to pad for
that matter, :-)  unless your being paid.


Len

>Thanks for any advice or comments on this one, and thanks for the advice on
>the Mosiac question!     Meg
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 10:48:07 1997
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X-Path: icsp.net!rballard
From: Robin Ballard <rballard@icsp.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 12:43:57 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.64357.0>
References: <<1997Feb7.212040.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I am ordering from Delphi for the first time and they offer a 25% discount on
> the first order (very generous, I think).  I've also seen messages alluding
> to their fall sales.  Do they also offer a 25% discount each fall?  If they
> do, it would reorder the priorities of what I'm going to be ordering right
> now and what I could wait until the fall to purchase.  Does anyone know?  TIA
> for any info on this!
> 
> Susie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Hi Susie!

Yes, to your question on Delphi.  They have a new coupon in their
catalog when the new version comes out every year.  I also stock up from
them when the new catalog comes out.  They also send sales flyers out
during the year which can be helpful when you need to stock up on solder
or foil, etc.

Robin B.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 12:03:52 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 13:04:50 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.6450.0>
References: <<1997Feb8.64357.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I've ordered from Delphi quite a few times.  Good service.  They have a
20% (I think it was) off on all Morton stuff.  It's in January and
February.  I can't remember about the Fall sale, too long ago for me.

-Debi
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 12:04:11 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:03:11 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702082003.OAA08114@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 08:25 PM 2/7/97 -0600, Richard LaVal wrote:
>Hi fellow forum members;
>        A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
>contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
>coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about it
>more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.
>
>1.  It seems only fair to tell the client at the outset, how much a project
>will cost.  However, if you haven't an approved design, how do you know how
>much to charge?  The kind of glass, the number of pieces etc... are still
>unknowns...
>
>2. This particular agreement which I kept a copy of, has a warranty
>section... which seems only fair to the client.  However what is the usual
>period of years that one guarantees the workmanship and materials for?
>
>I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
>design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 
>
>
>Thanks for any advice or comments on this one, and thanks for the advice on
>the Mosiac question!     Meg
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 12:45:58 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: glass
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 15:39:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.103933.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

i got a question, i'm desgning a new very complex box. i want to use a
blue irridescent. armstrong comes to mind but i need a thickness of an
1/8". armstrong is too thick. i would use spectrum but the irridscent is
too dull, i want something flashier. i like the look of bullseye, does
anyone know the approx. cost of bulls eye? say a 18"x24" sheet of blue,
CL, Irridscent (matte, and maybe gloss)? i just need a basic average for
the cost, i really don't want to spend too much. just a direction to go
when i tell my store to order some..

just so you know, if you were wondering what the project is, it's this:
a 12" x 5" x 12" (maybe), oval shaped box (not like a pill, put the
sides are oval). the main feature of the box is the tambour doors it's
going to have. i've already figured out how to do the doors, and right
now i'm still in the designing stage.

on one other note, i hav'nt added anything really new to my page, but i
put up my really cool title for my page. designed it myself..:)

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 13:29:28 1997
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X-Path: usaor.net!madglass
From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Glass Magic 3.0
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 16:27:34 -0500
Message-ID: <199702082130.QAA16347@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know if there is a web site for Micro Glass?  thanks in
advance.

mad

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 14:10:41 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 17:08:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.12828.0>
References: <<1.5.4.32.19970207151554.0067b8f8@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Martin Streng wrote:
> 
> Great idea!
> I could make a contribution of at least 2 sun-catchers.
> One suncatcher is a 2-dimension translation of a small statue, depicting a
> man embracing a woman ("very 60-ties" according to my teacher). It has a
> very special place in my heart and it is untill now the only piece i am
> really satisfied with.
> The other is a turtle Dick Bruna stile, it was made for a new-born. It has
> some very interesting design-aspects, mainly about strength.
> 
> But who should i send them to?


I will volunteer to collect the designs...and hopefully maybe Scott with 
SGN will volunteer to publish them.....anyone else have any input on 
directions to go with this, please contact me.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 14:15:37 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 17:24:23 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.92423.0>
References: <<199702082130.QAA16347@gate.usaor.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Cornell University
Precedence: bulk

Mary Ann Dulemba wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know if there is a web site for Micro Glass?  thanks in
> advance.
> 
> mad
> I haven't seen a web site however, the e-mail address for them is:		MicroGlass@aol.com
> ----
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-- 
B. J. Snell, Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 14:17:08 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 16:14:31 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702082214.QAA11872@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike,
 
It would run about 4.50 a pound WHOLESALE... the last I checked...  bullseye
sheets are approx 19.5x34 or approx 4.6 sq ft and weigh about 7.5 pounds or
about 34.00 WHOLESALE plus costs.... so a sheet at the store could run
anywhere from, what?.....  75.00 to 400.00  ;-)

Good luck on your new project

Len
 
OBTW ...  marine blue is 1108-10F  cobalt blue is 1114-10F  turquoise blue
is 1116-10F

matte finish only I believe
 

. i like the look of bullseye, does

>anyone know the approx. cost of bulls eye? say a 18"x24" sheet of blue,
>CL, Irridscent (matte, and maybe gloss)? i just need a basic average for
>the cost, i really don't want to spend too much. just a direction to go
>when i tell my store to order some..

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 15:59:59 1997
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From: "=?Windows-1250?Q?Grzegorz_Gier=B3owski?=" <michu-g@lodz.pdi.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: A tribute to life's aproach  of  Elisabeth and her dog Toby.
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 01:58:53 +0100
Message-ID: <199702082359.AAA12179@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



----------
> From: Mary Ann Dulemba <madglass@usaor.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Glass Magic 3.0
> Date: 8 lutego 1997 22:27

Thanks to everyone expressing concern  ' bout such trouble maker
as I'am.-I' ve been  voyeur only for some lenght of time(bungi cncerned)
otherwise very active in music field.
Our studio runs as usual ,commercialy speaking, except more and more
percentage of commisions are "TV soap opera style" level of  artistic =
value
which pisses me off and is the  reason   I'm devoting more  and more =
time
to my previous life-love, which is music.
Unexpected  success of musical  undertakings we took resulted in my =
absence
in your mailing club.
Since then  artistic group I'm managing being also a part of,  noticed =
several
successes.
Strange enough it intermixes with S.G.  'couse latest commission we =
successfuly
completed was unusual in a way  that we were hired to design and make
impression of  WATERDROPS   listening to M.Urbaniak's URBANATOR
latest CD ( one of my old time friends  I am representing commercialy in =
Europe)

After live concert  attendance, customer -( nouveau riche aiming for =
social status)
accepted double price, receiving  Michael's signature  on latest record =
release.
It's a fact  that it has  been  designed  listening to his music and was =
endorsed=20
and  simmilar design ordered  by his wife for their N.Y. house- thats =
what you call
marketing!.- it should tell  some of of you how ambivalet art pricing =
can be and add
to your  S.G. pricing policies discusion. =20
You are not going to be annoyed by my postings often since I  will be =
traveling
around Europe a lot, dividing my time between S.G voyerism  and  =
self-audio expression
live in jazz music.
Being sure you'll find   good replacement in another fine polish S.G. =
maker who lately  joined
Bungi  mail  with well deserved success I thank all of you who first =
supported me in=20
four letter battle against moral majority and than could not find time =
to answer me
on "off  bungi basis"- that's life.
Love you all - keep doing what you do privately and sharing it with the =
others!
Due to my  back-trip into music I,ll  be only voyeur  of  your list for =
some time  =20
until   my  body stilll accepts frequent travels and   drum pounding at =
night gigs.
How about  seeing nice S.G works In Italy for example and destroying it =
on purpose
with leaving reference of repair to one of you deceiving europeans on a =
trip to Chartres?

Love , peace and understanding

Greg
your swearing beast from savage East            =20



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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 16:05:35 1997
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X-Path: enter.net!ejl2
From: "Maverick" <ejl2@enter.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Price Comparison
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:01:31 -0500
Message-ID: <199702090004.TAA29812@mail.enter.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
>
> I am ordering from ______ for the first time and they offer a 25%
discount on
> the first order (very generous, I think).
> 
If you compare Delphi's and Glass Crafter's prices to
Warner-Crivellaro's prices you will be
astounded at the difference!!!! I may be partial, probably because
I've been buying from them for years, but no one else can match the prices.
Just for instance - if you add up the
prices of the following items (i've ordered most of this stuff in the last
year):
         ITEM            GLASSCRAFTERS           DELPHI         
WARNER-CRIVELLARO
Toyo Pistol Grip            28.95               28.95                22.95
Metal Runners               11.95                9.95                 8.95
Grozer/Breaker               7.95                6.95                 5.95
Temptrol 100 Iron           42.95               44.95                39.95
Pop Top WIZ Grinder         89.95               85.95                56.95*
                                                                 *(with
$100 purchase of other merchandise)
Lead Cutters                10.95                6.95                 5.95
Soldering Iron Stand        10.95                9.95                 6.95
Copper Foil Dispenser       12.95               11.95                 7.95
100 1-5/8" SUCTION CUPS     14.99               15.00                 9.95
Oak Fan Base w/cord         10.95               11.90                 6.95
Intro. to S.G. Book         13.95               13.95                11.16
60/40 solder                 6.95                5.95                 3.50*
                                                                *(with $100
purchase of other merchandise)
7/32" copper foil            3.95                3.25                 3.00
Morton Portable Glass shop  42.95               42.95                31.95
(mixed 3 price)
Morton Maxi Surface         22.95               22.95                17.10 
  "       "
Morton Safety Break System  15.95               15.95                11.66 
  "       "
Night Light Fixture w/Bulb   2.00                2.20                 1.25
                TOTAL --> $350.77             $339.70              $252.07

These are Warner-Crivellaro's everyday prices, lately, I've been getting
monthly
sales flyers with some good deals, especially quantity price breaks. 

Well, in any case, I sound like an advertisement, so I'm going to shut up
now.  I hope that at the very least I saved you a couple of bucks.

Maverick

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:30:30 1997
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X-Path: frognet.net!paul
From: paul wallace <paul@frognet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 97 21:28:32 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.52832.0>
References: <<1997Feb7.212040.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi.  Paul here from Bumblebee Stained Glass in Ohio.  We teach class 
and have seen a number of our students with Delphi Catalogs.  Yes 
they often offer 25% off the 1st order. They are computerized and as far 
as I know is a one shot deal.  I'm sure that the computer would tell 
them when someone has already used the discount.  We do 
occasionally order wholesale from them and I will say that they have 
always provided excellent service & carry quality items.  If you will look 
at the catalog they have a toll free technical help #. They will 
answer any technical problems you are having with a project and 
offer excellent advice. I have never stumped them!   Good luck.  Paul  
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:43:38 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: boonie...???
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01264@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Debi,
For a Swedish/UK "nerd" like me, what's   "boonies"
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Debi wrote:
  This site has great pictures of
the glass, and since I live in the boonies and have to mail-order most
of my stuff, at least I get an idea of what I'm buying.

And thanks everyone for the great storage tips.  

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:43:40 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01165@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Meg, 
You are making me feel immensely guilty. The original contract 
posting (if I remember correctly) originated from Len Alcamo months 
and months ago. I promised him to give an example of how I in my 
business arranged and worded written contracts. It is a long over-due 
"matter to be dealt with", but not one I have forgotten.
The one thing I stipulate in my contract is that the glass is of MY 
choice. If the customer has specific requests, demands & 
requirements, than this might cost extra.
Contrary to you folks in USA, we in UK quote per sq.ft. We have been 
through this before; it does seem to be a matter of personal 
preference and style of working., so I won't get drawn on that issue 
anymore.
Personally, I give my customers a written quotation before I even 
lift a pencil to draw the first line of the design. My quotation is 
valid for 30 days, thereafter subject to confirmation. In my 
quotation I state that as part of the acceptance of my quotation the 
customer should pay 30% deposit. Once I have that, the customer has 
then established his "right" of his turn. I will draw designs that I 
will show him. Once he declares himself happy I will ask him to 
initial those designs as part of his agreement. 3-4 months later (or 
whatever) he will receive the completed stained glass together with a 
final invoice. That invoice is paid ON delivery of the stained glass. 
NOT 30 days later, NOT "I'll send you a cheque"-syndrome. Mind you, 
during the "creation-period" I will have been frequently in touch 
with the customer. So he is - on the whole - fairly well informed 
exactly at what stage his panel/s is/are at. This also gives HIM time 
to budget and pay me on delivery day.

It is totally reasonable to demand a deposit before you start even 
the design. The fact that the customer has to pay up front, also  
makes HIM aware of "making a commitment". THEN if you chose to demand 
another 25% on  "agreeing the design" stage and the last 50% on 
delivery, is again perhaps a personal choice. I personally find that 
I get better motivated by  leaving the "lion's share" to very last. 
Also I am not tempted to spend money I haven't yet honestly 
earned.....
I think your approach is right, but whatever you do, always make sure 
to cover your back and be totally professional about it. And ALWAYS 
let the customer know exactly what to expect.
As regards guarantee/warranty time, I find it diffucult to pronounce 
on this for you in USA. My practice is that I will visit my stained 
glass sites once a year for a "check-up" for about 3-5 years; I will 
advise my customers about what and what not to do. But if the kids chose 
to kick a football through my panel/s then its THEIR look-out, not mine. I will 
charge them commercial rates for the repair. Mind you, it's still 
going to be cheaper for them to come to me, because I have the 
original drawings (That's another thing; make sure that you keep as 
your possession and RIGHT all the original drawings...).
The whole thing is, a stained glass panel that you have made just 
simply is NOT a television set that has been mass-produced in a 
factory. How can you give a guarantee on a painting (other than it is 
an "original") ??
It's a difficult one....
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Meg wrote:
Hi fellow forum members;
        A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about it
more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.

1.  It seems only fair to tell the client at the outset, how much a project
will cost.  However, if you haven't an approved design, how do you know how
much to charge?  The kind of glass, the number of pieces etc... are still
unknowns...

2. This particular agreement which I kept a copy of, has a warranty
section... which seems only fair to the client.  However what is the usual
period of years that one guarantees the workmanship and materials for?

I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:43:45 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hounds
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01340@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Gloria (3hounds)
So what's stopping you (apart from money..)?
C'mon over!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Gloria wrote:

Elizabeth,
That is one of the most enjoyable lifes I have ever read... My Borois 
should have such a wonderful life in the fields..they do do alot for my 
gardens.. enjoy the coming of spring.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:43:47 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01298@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thank you Gloria,
How very kind of you.
My head is already spinning from the incredible interchange between 
"you and us".  I am learning so much too. And with the great sense of 
fun, warmth and sharing that the majority in Glass@Bungi crowd are 
giving out - am "having a ball".....    :-)  
But, of course, there is a serious side too....
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Gloria  (3hounds) wrote:
Elizabeth,

It was so sad to here the state of stained glass in the UK.. Again, I 
feel that I live the  sheltered live and take so much for common.  If I 
can ever help in your endevours, leave me know.
3 hounds

in reply to Elisabeth, who wrote:
> Maybe it might still be in the Bungi Archives somewhere, but quite a
> number of months ago I posted a "historical rambling" to the effect
> of that the glass manufacturing (for stained glass) died in UK with the
> Advent of Oliver Cromwell. He was was the fellow who went about
> smashing up churches in UK. He didn't only smash up churches, he also
> smashed up and destroyed the manufacturers who made ornamentations
> for the churches, i.e. especially and including  stained glass
> artists studios and glass making studios/workshops. The stained glass
> "industry" in UK never really recovered from this devastation and many
> glass making techniques were lost forever.Compensations were then
> brought into the UK from elsewhere in Europe, especially the
> Flemish/Dutch and German artists. But don't forget, they too suffered
> the vagaries of wars and destructions. A re-birth of sorts in UK
> really only happened in the 19th Century with William Morris. Since
> when there are a couple of British Glass manufacturers producing
> glass for the stained glass industry. But a couple only. But the majority of glass we
> use today are imported from USA, Germany, France, Belgium and
> now Poland. Slowly and often painfully, we are trying to reconstruct
> destroyed past history and bring it into context of the 20th and 21st
> Century.The impact of Tiffany in Britain was quite substantial, not
> so much  in his designs and flamboyance,( which somehow doesn't appear
> to fit well with the British "pallet"), - the conservative Brits still
> find him "over the top", but much more resulting in a new surge of historical
> interest in the stained glass tradition and its revival. John Piper
> and Patrick Reyntiens - the 2 giants in Britain of stained glass of
> the 20th Century, never quite reached the emotional "common man" chord. Too
> academic, too remote, too dry, too abstract - I just don't know. What
> has caught the "common man's" imagination in Britain is the revival
> of the Arts & Crafts Movement, Victorian and Art Nouveau stained
> glass.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:43:48 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01395@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Kay,
How very kind of you!     Luckily you can't see me blush...
Watch Out! There is a plan afoot that I might just be able to make it 
"Across the Pond" in 1998 ( (swimming sessions are going FINE, pity 
the pool is so short!!)
(Please don't tell Toby!)
What about some patterns for our "Atlas" ???

Elisabeth 'n Toby


Kay wrote:
While catching up on my mail today I came across this marvelous descriptive
narrative of yours and just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed it.  You
are definitely someone I'd like to know.  Please keep inspiring us.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 18:44:23 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 03:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <199702090242.CAA01481@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everybody,
So there IS a real interest to  "cook" something together!!!
Wonderful!!!
Someone asked if it had to be done FAST. But of course not!! Good 
Things ALWAYS take time. Let's be realistic; I can't see anything 
concrete emerging until the end of this year at the earliest...
 I have opened a special file where  I save 
peoples' ideas and contributions. So keep 'em coming.
We have already had an offer for a PRINTER (so there!!)
By popular demand Albert Lewis has already been volunteered as the 
EDITOR - though he doesn't know it yet... (or does he?? He is keeping 
very quiet!!). I think I too would like to ask him. I will, and will 
try to make him an offer ha can't refuse (I hope..) I think I would 
also like to involve Scott. I myself would be quite happy to assume a 
role of a Progress Chaser and a contributor (lead only). Joyce is 
offering to be our COLLECTOR
So what I called a "Birth Team", we  are almost half way there (well, 
almost...)
We have already seen a number of willing contributors. Can we have 
more lead people please! What about all you folks with mosaics?? More 
3-D people! (Butterflies, Boxes, and....and...).   ... and LAMPS!!?
And this is only a few days after the idea was voiced.
Not Bad, eh!
There is a lot of enthusiasm for the idea.
MORE please!!
Eisabeth 'n Toby

P.S. Martin: Hang on to them for the moment.... (we need to clarify 
with Joyce)

Martin Streng wrote:
> 
> Great idea!
> I could make a contribution of at least 2 sun-catchers.
> One suncatcher is a 2-dimension translation of a small statue, depicting a
> man embracing a woman ("very 60-ties" according to my teacher). It has a
> very special place in my heart and it is untill now the only piece i am
> really satisfied with.
> The other is a turtle Dick Bruna stile, it was made for a new-born. It has
> some very interesting design-aspects, mainly about strength.
> 
> But who should i send them to?

Joyce Moran wrote:
I will volunteer to collect the designs...and hopefully maybe Scott with 
SGN will volunteer to publish them.....anyone else have any input on 
directions to go with this, please contact me.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 19:19:47 1997
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From: "Cindy (Di)" <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Price Comparison
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 22:00:59 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.14059.0>
References: <<199702090004.TAA29812@mail.enter.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Excellent report on pricing. Well done.

My local store is Whittemore-Durgin, it's about 25 minutes of back road 
driving away.  I once was sick so I ordered by UPS, at the same time I 
oredered from Cline in Oregon. (Whittemore is in Mass.) Cline showed up 
in seven days, Whittemore showed in 9 days. But.... if you look closely 
at Whittemore's catalog, a little bit of work will find some astounding 
bargains.  I just purchased 100 lbs of Exotic mixture. 
Youghaney(spelling) most is high strike production run. Some is 
experimental, but all of high quality, no mud. If you bought this by the 
pound piece meal, it would cost you over $570. Look carefully at the 
mixture price. 100 lbs for just over $200 dollars. Then look even closer 
at their sales flyer, it is listed at $156.00. Now, 100 lbs equals 60.6 
square feet. Can you beat $2.57 per square foot?  Remember this is their 
ring mottled, multi-colored glass. I found some stipple mixed in as well.

Can you afford to wait for UPS? I could.

phil7


Maverick wrote:
> 
> > SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I am ordering from ______ for the first time and they offer a 25%
> discount on
> > the first order (very generous, I think).

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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 19:36:03 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: boonie...???
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 22:04:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.18433.0>
References: <<199702090242.CAA01264@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> Hi Debi,
> For a Swedish/UK "nerd" like me, what's   "boonies"
> Elisabeth 'n Toby

boonies = boondocks = hinterlands = in the middle of nowhere = close to
nothing
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 19:44:46 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 22:12:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.181239.0>
References: <<199702090242.CAA01481@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

E & T-

Where is Albert hiding? We know he is here. 

Do you want to volunteer me for anything? I'd be happy to help in any
way I can.

Hilary

> 
> Hi Everybody,
> So there IS a real interest to  "cook" something together!!!
> Wonderful!!!
> Someone asked if it had to be done FAST. But of course not!! Good
> Things ALWAYS take time. Let's be realistic; I can't see anything
> concrete emerging until the end of this year at the earliest...
>  I have opened a special file where  I save
> peoples' ideas and contributions. So keep 'em coming.
> We have already had an offer for a PRINTER (so there!!)
> By popular demand Albert Lewis has already been volunteered as the
> EDITOR - though he doesn't know it yet... (or does he?? He is keeping
> very quiet!!). I think I too would like to ask him. I will, and will
> try to make him an offer ha can't refuse (I hope..) I think I would
> also like to involve Scott. I myself would be quite happy to assume a
> role of a Progress Chaser and a contributor (lead only). Joyce is
> offering to be our COLLECTOR
> So what I called a "Birth Team", we  are almost half way there (well,
> almost...)
> We have already seen a number of willing contributors. Can we have
> more lead people please! What about all you folks with mosaics?? More
> 3-D people! (Butterflies, Boxes, and....and...).   ... and LAMPS!!?
> And this is only a few days after the idea was voiced.
> Not Bad, eh!
> There is a lot of enthusiasm for the idea.
> MORE please!!
> Eisabeth 'n Toby
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 20:51:49 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 23:51:02 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.18512.0>
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Paul,

Thank you for the reply!  Everyone has been very helpful and kind.  But I've
received two different answers to this question so far so I think I might
need to call Delphi and ask them directly.  It seems that the other opinion
is that there is a 25% off offer on a person's first order from each new
catalog, not just the first time ever.  Confusing, huh?  But thank you for
responding.

Susie
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 20:57:30 1997
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Subject: Thank you!
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 23:56:40 -0500 (EST)
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And I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to answer my questions about
the Delphi discount and places to visit in Arizona and Texas!  It's nice to
know that help is never very far away!

Warm regards,

Susie
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Paper
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 00:37:17 -0500 (EST)
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<< mactac >>

Never heard of this.  What is it?  Barbara
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To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: DR Glass & Others
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 00:57:45 -0500 (EST)
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<< If by DR you are referring to Double Roll >>


What is this?  Barbara
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 22:01:23 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 22:20:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.15203.0>
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Hi Joyce,
	How very brave of you.  I have a couple designs I'd like to 
contribute and I have your address.
	However, one thought comes to mind.  To simplify the printing 
process, I'd recommend that all submitted designs be print ready -- 
that is, presented on, oh say 81/2 X 11 white paper, with thick 
(Sharpie-made) lines.  And possibly submit a photo of the finished 
product, if available?
	Let me know what you think.  And I'll be working on a couple to 
send to you.
	Can we market this?  How can each of us get a copy of the final 
assembled book of patterns?  Do we need to find another volunteer to 
handle the business end, if any, of this endeavor?  I'm very excited 
about all of this.  It wasn't too long ago that we were referred to as 
an extended family.  What a cool perspective.  With people like 
yourselves so willing to give of your time and knowledge, it's almost a 
folksy way of dealing with others who have common interests.
	Just so you'll know, we have a small cottage-based accounting 
business.  So please be aware of how valuable our time is right now.  
The accounting allows me to treat myself to glass and other little 
goodies.  But I will devote the time necessary to convert a couple 
patterns into a format that is deemed best for this type of pattern 
gathering.
	You've been so generous and continue to be.  Thanks for taking 
part in this.  I hope it goes forward and is fun for anyone who wants to 
participate.
			T. in Montana

> I will volunteer to collect the designs...and hopefully maybe Scott with
> SGN will volunteer to publish them.....anyone else have any input on
> directions to go with this, please contact me.
> 
> Garden of Glass
> Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 22:08:30 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: boonie...???
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 22:27:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb8.152737.0>
References: <<199702090242.CAA01264@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Hi Elisabeth:  Boonies is a colloquialism, a version of "boondocks" 
which is also a slang word meaning litterally-- wild and dense brush, 
jungle, back country, hinterland.  In other words, in the middle of 
nowhere.  It may not be the end of the earth, but you can see it from 
there.
	Glad to see you back on the keyboard and chatting wildly about. 
 T. in Montana

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Debi,
> For a Swedish/UK "nerd" like me, what's   "boonies"
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> Debi wrote:
>   This site has great pictures of
> the glass, and since I live in the boonies and have to mail-order most
> of my stuff, at least I get an idea of what I'm buying.
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 01:08:28 -0500 (EST)
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In a message dated 97-02-03 22:27:54 EST, you write:

<< Ed  Hoy's and a nattily attired person would escort me to a waiting lounge
>>

Don't know how long it's been since you've been to Hoy's, but I've been
"shopping" there for a while and I wander around the warehouse freely
whenever I want.  I see others doing the same.  Are you sure-footed?  :)
 Barbara
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From owner-glass Sat Feb  8 23:59:00 1997
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From: "Rexort International Pty Ltd" <rdeint@wt.com.au>
To: "Bungi Glass List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: New HiGlass Web Site
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:55:11 +0800
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I just finished an initial version of the new HiGlass web site. Lots of
fused tiles, panels and plates are included. 

The URL is
http://www.wt.com.au/~rdeint/higlass.htm

Please let me know of any problems and your comments. Thanks.

Regards,
Harald Reiss
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 04:46:52 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 07:51:46 +0000
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> 	Can we market this?  How can each of us get a copy of the final 
> assembled book of patterns?  Do we need to find another volunteer to 
> handle the business end, if any, of this endeavor?  I'm very excited 
> about all of this.  It wasn't too long ago that we were referred to as 
> an extended family.  What a cool perspective.  With people like 
> yourselves so willing to give of your time and knowledge, it's almost a 
> folksy way of dealing with others who have common interests.

Joyce,

You've just described in a nutshell almost exactly what Gerry Phibbs 
says is the reason the Guild was formed three-four years ago. I guess 
if an avenue to market the final product is needed, the Guild could 
do it, although I'm talking off the top of my head here without any 
authorization from the Board of Directors.

I still think a printed version wouldn't be necessary, since the 
images could be stored online and printed out by anyone anywhere.

albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 04:46:53 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 07:51:46 +0000
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> Where is Albert hiding? We know he is here. 

Albert hiding? Nah. I didn't realize I'd been volunteered as editor, 
though ... very flattering.  Thanks.

If you all are serious about a Glass Atlas of Patterns and the 
intention is to share them, then it seems to me that the best and 
most open way of gathering, storing and disseminating them would not 
be by doing so in print, but by archiving them here on bungi.

That way, anyone can access them, print out the desired pattern, etc. 
All of them should be originals, though, not "favorite" patterns from 
published (copyrighted) materials, right?  Perhaps you've all already 
covered that ground; I'll have to admit that I haven't been paying 
close attention to the Glass Atlas thing.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 06:21:54 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 09:20:29 -0500 (EST)
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On Sun, 9 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:


> 
> I still think a printed version wouldn't be necessary, since the 
> images could be stored online and printed out by anyone anywhere.
> 
> albert


Albert, mi amor! 


Must we fall in on the side of the elitists? Must we decree that only
those with plenty of money and a nerdy edge are good enough to use our
patterns? Hard as it is for us to remember, there a plenty of folks who
lack a computer but are still worthy people! Some of them even do glass.

As a dues-paying IGGA member I'm of course biased on this point, but let
me introduce it anyway. Could we not direct whatever small profit might be
realized by hard copy to the IGGA's school building fund?

Mary



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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 06:38:14 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: boonie...???
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 09:36:11 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970209094558.26878a56@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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    Thanks T.   
                        I laughed right out loud when I read your definition
of "boonies"
Not only does it perfectly describe  the location but state of being when
one is there.    

At 10:27 PM 2/8/97 -0700, you wrote:
                     
>.  It may not be the end of the earth, but you can see it from 
>there.
>	Glad to see you back on the keyboard and chatting wildly about. 
> T. in Montana
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 07:08:32 1997
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From: Kay Allen <fullspec@scv.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 07:02:25 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970209150225.0068e8dc@mail.scv.net>
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What is the proposed itinerary for your 1998 USA visit?  Would really enjoy
meeting you.
I wish I could contribute to the original patterns for the Atlas on bungi
but I have been so caught up in learning technique that I haven't persued
any creative talents I may have.  I'm at the stage where I really feel
accomplished when I can enlarge an existing design just through" eyeballing"
and a little help from a projector.  I used to pay a stained glass
retailer-artist to enlarge a pattern to my dimensions but I walked into his
shop one day and saw him using the projector so thought to myself, I can at
least do that!  I know somewhere deep inside I'm a creative person so with
time I will try to do some original designs but right now I'm still a
technician.


At 03:00 9-02-97 +0000, you wrote:
>Dear Kay,
>How very kind of you!     Luckily you can't see me blush...
>Watch Out! There is a plan afoot that I might just be able to make it 
>"Across the Pond" in 1998 ( (swimming sessions are going FINE, pity 
>the pool is so short!!)
>(Please don't tell Toby!)
>What about some patterns for our "Atlas" ???
>
>Elisabeth 'n Toby
>
>
>.
>----
>.
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 07:28:14 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:26:57 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970209103644.249f50bc@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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        Public schools and community colleges have made computer labs
available to anyone that wants access to them......  Public Service Ads are
on the air all of the time, featuring the availability of these
computers.....  Syracuse public library system featured a quilting month.
Design, patterns, techniques, demonstrations, all from their computers .
Not to mention the absolutely beautiful quilts  on display contributed by
local quilters with one thing in common ..... quilts.  Have you seen the
price of a good quality hand made quilt lately.... wow !!!!!
        I still support  the "net" idea.......   people in my community will
be able to receive benefit of this information .... without having to absorb
the cost of traveling to something like  the IGGA school whenever it comes
to  fruition.


At 09:20 AM 2/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>On Sun, 9 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:
>
>
>> 
>> I still think a printed version wouldn't be necessary, since the 
>> images could be stored online and printed out by anyone anywhere.
>> 
>> albert
>
>
>Albert, mi amor! 
>
>
>Must we fall in on the side of the elitists? Must we decree that only
>those with plenty of money and a nerdy edge are good enough to use our
>patterns? Hard as it is for us to remember, there a plenty of folks who
>lack a computer but are still worthy people! Some of them even do glass.
>
>As a dues-paying IGGA member I'm of course biased on this point, but let
>me introduce it anyway. Could we not direct whatever small profit might be
>realized by hard copy to the IGGA's school building fund?
>
>Mary
>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 08:02:32 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:02:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970209101154.26877e74@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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  Good Morning               
                I just created a new mailbox for Glass Atlas.... this
discussion is getting serious.  I really like the idea of sharing the
information over the net vs. publishing.  
                I have just started designing my own patterns and have
tripped into an area that pleases me ..... I have been designing fans that
can be either attached to elec stands as a night /accent light or placed in
plate stands.  Only one completed so far.
                ( Mardi Gras time of year is a perfect time for getting
inspired, the colors are so rich.)
                I have several patterns ....  used all of my skills that I
learned in the lst grade with construction paper and glue. Worked pretty
good, so far the easiest way for me.  (We all start somewhere, right?)   I
will get serious about the patterns and make sure they can be used by real
people... Elisabeth I wished I lived next door so you could help me with
Dragonfly.  I am afraid I am not quite ready for that.
                        
                        Bottom line, I would like to contribute as well as
gain more than I have from all of you.... 
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 09:04:54 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 09:00:38 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.1038.0>
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maruca@netaxs.com wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 9 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> >
> > I still think a printed version wouldn't be necessary, since the
> > images could be stored online and printed out by anyone anywhere.
> >
> > albert
> 
> Albert, mi amor!
> 
> Must we fall in on the side of the elitists? Must we decree that only
> those with plenty of money and a nerdy edge are good enough to use our
> patterns? Hard as it is for us to remember, there a plenty of folks who
> lack a computer but are still worthy people! Some of them even do glass.
> 
> As a dues-paying IGGA member I'm of course biased on this point, but let
> me introduce it anyway. Could we not direct whatever small profit might be
> realized by hard copy to the IGGA's school building fund?
> 
> Mary
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Ok, folks I am fairly new at stained glass (one year at it).  Sold all
our show qualtity rabbits and turned the barn into a stained glass room. 
Really nice, I have a large working table, lots of counter space, a
built in light table, a drafting table, lots of space for glass storage,
and a peg board for hanging tools, a laundry tub with running hot and
cold water and even an old refrigerator to keep my pop cold.  I left
space in the corner for my husband's N-Gauge train layout, but he hasn't
put it there yet so I am gradually taking over that space too.  
     Anyway, I connected to this site about a week ago.  So some things
I know what you are talking about and others I don't.  The latest thing
I see is the IGGA.  I don't know what it is and would like to know if it
is a group for people interested in stained glass. What are it's
benefits.  Do they have a magazine and what does it cost?  
     By the way, I was the one who put something on here the other day
for the search of a realistic (not fairy tale looking) castle and I
haven't seen anyone reply to it.  Are they just not available anywhere?
     You can snail mail me details or the IGGA at 2710 Cohoe Road,
Ellensburg, Washington  98926 or e-mail me at fishbait@televar.com
Thanks, Bonnie Clark
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 09:15:14 1997
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 12:11:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.71157.0>
References: <<1997Feb8.15203.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>         However, one thought comes to mind.  To simplify the printing
> process, I'd recommend that all submitted designs be print ready --
> that is, presented on, oh say 81/2 X 11 white paper, with thick
> (Sharpie-made) lines.  And possibly submit a photo of the finished
> product, if available?


I agree the more ready for computer the better...I would prefer designs 
are already scanned and can be sent by email, but I do have scanner 
equipment and am open to scanning any that come by snail mail.   It 
would of course be easier if they were 8 1/2 x 11 and would fit right 
through the scanner easily.  I'm thinking a written description of the 
project by the author, may or may not come in handy along with a color 
photograph of the finished project.  Sometimes especially in 
abstract/modern type designs, if you know something about the meaning of 
the design from the designer's viewpoint, it means so much more than 
just a view of the design.  Another maybe is the real name of the 
designer (to give credit where credit is due) and date of the designs.

I'm ready to start receiving designs by email, with the stipulation that 
if we add stuff necessary to attach to the design (photo, description 
etc) that I can email back and get the required stuff from you.  I will 
give out my snail mail address by request if you email me privately.  
Any snail mail stuff sent should definitely have an email address 
included so I can ask for anything else that's necessary.

I'm excited!

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 09:24:17 1997
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X-Path: mindspring.com!marissam
From: Marissa McLaughlin <marissam@mindspring.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Elizabeth's US visit
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 09:24:59 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970209172459.0067a294@pop.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elizabeth,
        I hope you are planning an extended visit to the US.  If any of us
misses the opportunity to meet you we will be very disappointed.  I think I
can speak for everyone when I say that we have all grown very fond of you.

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 09:24:45 1997
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X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz
From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:22:42 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702091722.LAA06472@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>
>Don't know how long it's been since you've been to Hoy's, but I've been
>"shopping" there for a while and I wander around the warehouse freely
>whenever I want.  I see others doing the same.  Are you sure-footed?  :)
> Barbara

Hi Barbara,

Now that you mention it I might have appeared to be a stumble bum, Hoy stop
was always at the tail end of the day which started about 3 a.m. with a 6
hour road trip.

It's been a few years since I've there. I'm glad to hear that you can pick
your own sheets.

My work used to be more organic in design and sheet selection was more
critical. Now I just order a mixed case and hope for the best.

  
Len

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 10:13:30 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: A tribute to life's aproach  of  Elisabeth and her dog Toby.
Date: 09 Feb 97 13:09:09 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.1899.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Greg (you savage beast),

Wonderful to hear from you again.  Please do drop by now and again as you have a
chance.  As for me, I also divide my time between stained glass and music.  But
my music is mostly classical (vocal and flute/piccolo).  I'm soloing with a
local orchestra next month.  Got to go right now...Got a vocal ensemble
performance this afternoon and must get into my "diva dress".

...Christie Wood

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 12:00:59 1997
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: New HiGlass Web Site
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:01:29 -0500
Message-ID: <9702092001.AA16965@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Harald wrote:
>I just finished an initial version of the new HiGlass web site. Lots of
>fused tiles, panels and plates are included. 
>
>The URL is
>http://www.wt.com.au/~rdeint/higlass.htm
>
>Please let me know of any problems and your comments. Thanks.

Harald,

Would love to check it out....having problems connecting.  You 1st page with
HiGlass is the only thing that loads.  Nothing else. When you click on the
HiGlass link on the page
there is no connection???  No fused tiles, panels or plates there. 

my best,
pj
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 12:52:00 1997
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From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:48:34 -0500
Message-ID: <199702092054.PAA29750@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

thank you!

----------
> From: B. J. Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
> Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 8:24 PM
> 
> Mary Ann Dulemba wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone know if there is a web site for Micro Glass?  thanks in
> > advance.
> > 
> > mad
> > I haven't seen a web site however, the e-mail address for them is:	
MicroGlass@aol.com
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> -- 
> B. J. Snell, Cornell University
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 13:47:35 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: New HiGlass Web Site
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 16:53:12 +0000
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> >http://www.wt.com.au/~rdeint/higlass.htm

> Would love to check it out....having problems connecting.  You 1st page with
> HiGlass is the only thing that loads.  Nothing else. 

It worked all right for me, pj. Try again.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 13:47:38 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 16:53:12 +0000
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> > Must we fall in on the side of the elitists? Must we decree that only
> > those with plenty of money and a nerdy edge are good enough to use our
> > patterns?

Yes, quite.  Sorry ... I guess I hadn't had my 15th cup of coffee yet 
... whatever, I was certainly asleep. I guess I should have said that 
*I am excited about webbishness and I guess that's meant I've 
forgotten about paperness, if you get my drift.  What I should have 
said is that both web-access versions of the images that also work 
when printed out should be kept in mind. The latest issue of "Common 
Ground: Glass" was done mostly that way: designed for the web *and 
print simultaneously.  This leads to some restrictions, since the web 
can't do everything that print can, but there you are.  The issue 
seems to "work"; I'd just keep that in mind, otherwise one doubles 
the amount of work in the end, prepping something once for print and 
then again for the web.


>      Anyway, I connected to this site about a week ago.  So some things
> I know what you are talking about and others I don't.  The latest thing
> I see is the IGGA.  I don't know what it is and would like to know if it
> is a group for people interested in stained glass. What are it's
> benefits.  Do they have a magazine and what does it cost?  

Glad to mail you the info, sure. Do you have web access, a browser? 
If so, you can find out all about the Guild (or the IGGA, to put it 
more formally) by going to http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga and 
clicking on the various parts of that home page. Benefits, discounts 
to members, back issues, lists of suppliers ... and soon, very soon, 
a very nice (if I say so myself, 'cause I designed it) the updated 
version of the Sources Guide that's just too cool (again, if I say so 
myself ... I proud of it!).  The suppliers have until this Friday to 
correct their information, update it, confirm email and site 
addresses, etc., then it'll be released.  I'll tell you when.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 13:48:42 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 16:54:18 +0000
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> > > I haven't seen a web site however, the e-mail address for them is:	
> MicroGlass@aol.com


I tried that address.  No joy.  Unknown at aol.com

albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 14:16:07 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Nancyohara
From: Nancyohara@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 17:15:11 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.121511.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I AM NOT SURE WHY I AM GETTING ALL OF YOUR MAIL.  I HAVE ABOUT 12 OR MORE
E-MAIL MESSAGES TODAY IN MY MAILBOX.  HELP! I WON'T DELETE THEM UNTIL I HEAR
FROM YOU. THEY ALL SEEM TO HAVE YOUR ADDRESS ON THEM.  SOME MIX UP.  MAYBE I
DID SOMETHING WRONG LAST NIGHT WHILE I WAS ON LINE.  HOPE I DIDN'T TRANSFER
ALL YOUR MAIL TO ME.  I'M SO CONFUSED.  SORRY!
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 14:44:21 1997
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X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  Bungi Glass Atlas of Patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 16:42:38 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.104238.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Hey Dudes and Dudettes!!!

OK, OK, OK....I just knew I would manage to find a good spot in this
discussion to jump into...a job perfectly suited to my particular
situation and talent.....well, here it is:

IF YA'LL WANT IT ON THE NET, I WILL VOLUNTEER THE SERVER SPACE

I also have a scanner and will be happy to scan patterns and pictures
for this project for free.  Give a shout if you want either.

Shirley & the Armadillo
Grapeland, Tx.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 15:24:00 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:23:28 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970209183308.1affba6c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Perhaps asking Stephanie at Delphi might be helpful.  I bought the program
through Delphi and needed to contact MicroGlass.  Stephanie facilitated the
contact for me.  If the address has changed, she may know the new one.
                 Stephanie, are you listening?

At 04:54 PM 2/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> > > I haven't seen a web site however, the e-mail address for them is:	
>> MicroGlass@aol.com
>
>
>I tried that address.  No joy.  Unknown at aol.com
>
>albert
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>International Guild of Glass Artists
>A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 16:07:21 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:00:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.14049.0>
References: <<1997Feb9.121511.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Nancyohara@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I AM NOT SURE WHY I AM GETTING ALL OF YOUR MAIL.  I HAVE ABOUT 12 OR MORE
> E-MAIL MESSAGES TODAY IN MY MAILBOX.  HELP! I WON'T DELETE THEM UNTIL I HEAR
> FROM YOU. THEY ALL SEEM TO HAVE YOUR ADDRESS ON THEM.  SOME MIX UP.  MAYBE I
> DID SOMETHING WRONG LAST NIGHT WHILE I WAS ON LINE.  HOPE I DIDN'T TRANSFER
> ALL YOUR MAIL TO ME.  I'M SO CONFUSED.  SORRY!
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


just say get me off the list, or something to that effect. somehow i
guess you got onto the list.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 16:27:53 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:23:02 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116160513.1c97b624@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I would be glad to share a design or two... however, several of my better
ones are for panels of up to maybe 2x3 feet.... how to scale that down to 8
1/2 x11 and not loose small details???? Or should the designs all be simple,
or for suncatchers????  Meg


At 10:20 PM 2/8/97 -0700, you wrote:
>	However, one thought comes to mind.  To simplify the printing 
>process, I'd recommend that all submitted designs be print ready -- 
>that is, presented on, oh say 81/2 X 11 white paper, with thick 
>(Sharpie-made) lines.  And possibly submit a photo of the finished 
>product, if available?
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 16:28:14 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:23:08 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116160518.1c97d7b6@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi;
        Funny your saying that about your rabbit barn... we have a goat -
then rabbit barn which I have been eyeing with covetous eyes..... the
remodeling has been what has kept me from doing it as yet.  The 2nd floor of
the horse barn where I currently am, is too near the road, and therefore too
many drop bys..... between 1-4 pm one day 27 people dropped in!!  The rabbit
barn is up a steep hill!!!  :)  Meg


....folks I am fairly new at stained glass (one year at it).  Sold all
>our show qualtity rabbits and turned the barn into a stained glass room. 
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 16:28:16 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Elizabeth's US visit
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:23:11 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116160521.2ab75a04@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Me too ... but I'm in Costa Rica, so add a stop!  Meg

At 09:24 AM 2/9/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Elizabeth,
>        I hope you are planning an extended visit to the US.  If any of us
>misses the opportunity to meet you we will be very disappointed.  I think I
>can speak for everyone when I say that we have all grown very fond of you.
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 17:22:39 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 20:28:27 +0000
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hell, all,

Oh, I have been lurking on this issue ... feeling as though I am too 
new to the group, too new to the craft (and that for me, for now, I 
am still a craftsperson and not yet an artist.)

I have made a few original pieces, but I'm not sure I would feel 
they are sophisticated enough to include in such company.

So, I will sit out the inaugural issue ... unless, of course, I am 
very happy with my new mosaic ... I am working on a Queen Conch. If 
that turns out, perhaps I will dare to share.

Thanks to all for being here when I need help.

M.-J.
M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails.

 
                                              |\                ( )
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 17:35:18 1997
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From: Chris Kloosterman <cklooste@cswnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Price Comparison
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:35:06 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.13356.0>
References: <<199702090004.TAA29812@mail.enter.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: progress radio
Precedence: bulk

Maverick wrote:
> 
> > SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I am ordering from ______ for the first time and they offer a 25%
> discount on
> > the first order (very generous, I think).
> >
> If you compare Delphi's and Glass Crafter's prices to
> Warner-Crivellaro's prices you will be
> astounded at the difference!!!! I may be partial, probably because
> I've been buying from them for years, but no one else can match the prices.
> Just for instance - if you add up the
> prices of the following items (i've ordered most of this stuff in the last
> year):
>          ITEM            GLASSCRAFTERS           DELPHI
> WARNER-CRIVELLARO
> Toyo Pistol Grip            28.95               28.95                22.95
> Metal Runners               11.95                9.95                 8.95
> Grozer/Breaker               7.95                6.95                 5.95
> Temptrol 100 Iron           42.95               44.95                39.95
> Pop Top WIZ Grinder         89.95               85.95                56.95*
>                                                                  *(with
> $100 purchase of other merchandise)
> Lead Cutters                10.95                6.95                 5.95
> Soldering Iron Stand        10.95                9.95                 6.95
> Copper Foil Dispenser       12.95               11.95                 7.95
> 100 1-5/8" SUCTION CUPS     14.99               15.00                 9.95
> Oak Fan Base w/cord         10.95               11.90                 6.95
> Intro. to S.G. Book         13.95               13.95                11.16
> 60/40 solder                 6.95                5.95                 3.50*
>                                                                 *(with $100
> purchase of other merchandise)
> 7/32" copper foil            3.95                3.25                 3.00
> Morton Portable Glass shop  42.95               42.95                31.95
> (mixed 3 price)
> Morton Maxi Surface         22.95               22.95                17.10
>   "       "
> Morton Safety Break System  15.95               15.95                11.66
>   "       "
> Night Light Fixture w/Bulb   2.00                2.20                 1.25
>                 TOTAL --> $350.77             $339.70              $252.07
> 
> These are Warner-Crivellaro's everyday prices, lately, I've been getting
> monthly
> sales flyers with some good deals, especially quantity price breaks.
> 
> Well, in any case, I sound like an advertisement, so I'm going to shut up
> now.  I hope that at the very least I saved you a couple of bucks.
> 
> Maverick
> 
> ----
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Could you please give me the address of Warner-Crivellaro so I can
order a catalog.  Sounds like great prices.
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 18:23:35 1997
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From: April Paine <vgplugs@primeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Price Comparison
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 21:25:48 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.52548.0>
References: <<1997Feb9.13356.0>>
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                                       WC                         GC   =
                        DELphi
>                 TOTAL --> $350.77             $339.70              $252=
.07
> 
> These are Warner-Crivellaro's everyday prices, lately, I've been gettin=
g
> monthly
> sales flyers with some good deals, especially quantity price breaks.
> 
> Well, in any case, I sound like an advertisement, so I'm going to shut =
up
> now.  I hope that at the very least I saved you a couple of bucks.
> 
> Maverick
> 
>


Looks like Delphi has them beat if I'm understanding ...not WC??

vgplugs@primeline.com
http://members.tripod.com/~VictorianGreenhouse/index.html






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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 19:02:49 1997
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From: paul wallace <paul@frognet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delphi Sales?
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 21:53:19 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.55319.0>
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Hi.  I saw the other replies too.  I stand corrected.....     Paul
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:09:30 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Elizabeth's US visit
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:25:18 +0000
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Hi Marissa,
......Just as well you can't see me.... even my hair is blushng...
Toby has turned red too.
Ahem....
It started off as a joke, really. Financially,  I can't afford it.
But the Chartres Trip started off a bit like that too about 18 months 
ago, as a bit of bantering between myself and the Adult Education 
Manager at a College where I teach stained glass. For the same 
reason; financially I couldn't afford to "swan off" to Chartres for a 
week, just like that. I am still paying off debts from years ago.
But somehow or another, Chartres is actually happening, it's now less 
than six weeks away.
 I haven't got much, but whatever I do have, has always been as a 
result of "one good turn" somewhere along in my life. My philosophy 
was and always will be "pass it on", share it. Some of the people 
that did me a good turn years ago, I will never be able to thank, 
some of them are now even dead. You can't thank the dead, but you can 
thank the living. Or as one of my friends puts it "What goes around, 
comes around". So as long as you come as a friend and are happy to 
"muck in" and do the dishes and respect my home as your own, it WILL 
be your own.

I am amazed myself that I should sit here with nothing and seriously 
say, hey folks, I will be in the USA some time in 1998! The whole 
idea is crazy. Itinery?? You must be joking! But I was equally joking 
about Chartres about 18 months ago! I have no idea at this very
moment how my route in USA will progress. I really HAVE no concrete 
plans ,other than cramming in stained glass sites and as many 
stained glass friends as I possibly manage & digest... (Oh, yes, the 
Metropolitan Museum is a MUST!!!). Another little small "niggle" is 
to see what the Swedes did when they arrived in Delaware last 
Century( Where are they, who are they, how did the assimilate and how 
did they influence the environment they found themselves in.  Don't 
forget - I started out in life as a History Graduate, before I 
ventured into Linguistics and  finally ended up as a poor stained 
glass artist...)
If  I am truly honest, USA never before figured large on my list of 
priorities of "countries to visit". So I ended up being in all other 
sort of strange corners of the Earth.  Stained Glass changed all 
that. More than anything, this last year or so of the argumentative, 
often heated, always warm and immensely generous interchange "Across 
the Pond", makes me realize just how much we COULD give each other, 
learn from each other and offer as inspirations to each other 
(History again - if you like). Another "academic" term might be 
"cross-fertilization".

I am not making plans right now about my visit  to USA as I am too 
single-minded right now in making sure that my "chickens" from USA 
will have a ball when they get here in six weeks time. 
That I WILL be in USA in 1998 is for sure.
ITINERY?
YOU tell me, where should I go? what should I see? whom should I 
see? And why?  I foresee, at this point in time, 6 weeks (8 ideal, but very 
unlikely). Whatever I do, wherever I am, I hope to learn, to see and 
earn my presence. If Mike Savad - for instance can show me what he 
does and how does it and I have to sit bleary-eyed wrapping copper 
foil by hand into the small hours of the morning (as slave labour),
 that's a small price 
to pay (I hate copper foiling - it's like peeling large quantities of 
potatoes!). Mike, by the way, that was only an example - not to be 
taken literally... or personally....

 It's only through the project of Chartres that I have gained 
that extra information (from YOU guys) about super-cheap flights 
across to USA and special "starver-deals" (as Lee Boe put it to me a 
while ago). All I want to make sure is that my visit does not clash with 
Julie Sloan's visit to UK. 
There are so many of you I would almost sell my sould to meet; 
logistically it is probably going to be not only extremely nigh 
impossible, but also a nightmare.
Let's just take it a step at a time.
Chartres has happened , so will my USA trip.
Another thing, you have about 18 months to think about what can I 
bring you as regards stained glass 
experience/history/resources/literature/whatever from here to you 
that YOU can't get hold of over there..???
Now that's a thought!
You are not going to have it all one way, you know. We in Europe are 
not yet dinosaurs....
With Much Affection
Elisabeth 'n Toby
 
 You wrote (still ahem):

Elizabeth,
        I hope you are planning an extended visit to the US.  If any of us
misses the opportunity to meet you we will be very disappointed.  I think I
can speak for everyone when I say that we have all grown very fond of you.


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:09:32 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castles
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:25:18 +0000
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Hi Bonnie,
I absolutely love the address "fishbait". It really does conjure up 
some pictures!!!
Castles!!
The reason why folks may not have replied instantly at "the button", 
is perhaps because you have sent them away, scurrying into their 
resources, madly looking for "castles".  (It's kinda difficult to do 
two things at once....)
Why I assume this, is because I myself have done exactly that....
I don't know that USA is particularly filled with castles ( Although 
Disneyland might have one or two...). Living in UK, there is the the 
odd castle here and there; Wales and Scotland a fair number. Germany, 
I think is the place where you should look for the type of castle I 
think you are aiming for, especially Southern Germany (Bavaria) 
Recently, we have more information about (former) East Germany. I am 
the prouud owner of a series of Art Nouveau stained glass designs 
from all over former East Germany. One of them could possibly be 
modified to  a castle (it includes a church and the tail end of a 
castle). 
On the other hand, if you spoke very nicely to Martin Streng in 
Holland (who is in our group) he might be able to give you a few more 
"pointers" where to look. He is not German, but he lives closer to 
Germany than I do. Martin, there is this particular  castle 
just north-ish of Munich, which is called either Schloss Traunstein 
or Schloss Schwanstein (I have really forgotten over the years. Was 
it one of "Mad Ludwig's" creations...?).  The German Tourist Board 
has often used it in their posters as promotional pictures for 
Bavaria.Stylized and modified, I suppose it could be converted to a stained 
glass design.
Bonnie, IGGA stands for the International Guild of Glass Artists, of 
which Albert Lewis is a Director.  You can reach IGGA at
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
Check it out and see what you think.
Good Luck!
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Bonnie wrote:Ok, folks I am fairly new at stained glass (one year at it).  Sold all
our show qualtity rabbits and turned the barn into a stained glass room. 
Really nice, I have a large working table, lots of counter space, a
built in light table, a drafting table, lots of space for glass storage,
and a peg board for hanging tools, a laundry tub with running hot and
cold water and even an old refrigerator to keep my pop cold.  I left
space in the corner for my husband's N-Gauge train layout, but he hasn't
put it there yet so I am gradually taking over that space too.  
     Anyway, I connected to this site about a week ago.  So some things
I know what you are talking about and others I don't.  The latest thing
I see is the IGGA.  I don't know what it is and would like to know if it
is a group for people interested in stained glass. What are it's
benefits.  Do they have a magazine and what does it cost?  
     By the way, I was the one who put something on here the other day
for the search of a realistic (not fairy tale looking) castle and I
haven't seen anyone reply to it.  Are they just not available anywhere?
    
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:09:33 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: boonie...???
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Hi "T"
Loved your description!! Perfectly clear
Elisabeth 'n Toby

   
   You wrote:                  
>.  It may not be the end of the earth, but you can see it from 
>there.
>	Glad to see you back on the keyboard and chatting wildly about. 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:09:34 1997
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Subject: Re: Play it again Sam 
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Christie,
You floored me.
Will want to talk to you again, especially about Music.
Hey - don't "pay tribute" I only bounce back what is served to me.. I 
have an Agenda with Greg, but it's one of those things that takes a 
while to get going. The Internet is a miraculous thing, but it's so 
instant that it doesn't allow for "mulling", maturing and honing of 
thoughts , ideas and expressions Sometimes one just need to step back 
and allow a thought to mature in its own time. Internet or no 
Internet, I don't propose to change that NOW
Now and then, I get direct e-mails to the effect "Hey Elisabeth! Have 
you forgotten?? No I haven't, and I won't. There was just something I 
need to think about a little more.
I owe some people replies. This is the reason why.
Hey Greg, hang in there!! You are doing great!!


Christie write:
Greg (you savage beast),

Wonderful to hear from you again.  Please do drop by now and again as you have a
chance.  As for me, I also divide my time between stained glass and music.  But
my music is mostly classical (vocal and flute/piccolo).  I'm soloing with a
local orchestra next month.  Got to go right now...Got a vocal ensemble
performance this afternoon and must get into my "diva dress".


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:09:35 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:25:18 +0000
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...And Good Morning to you B.J.
Although it's getting close to midnight over here in UK by now...
I too have opened up a new "file" for Glass Atlas. It really IS 
getting serious.... It wasn't really my idea ... I only picked up on 
an almost "throw-away" comment someone made, and it just sort of 
sparked something.
FIRST of all, I want it to be FUN (as well as serious)
SECONDLY,  I would like EVERYBODY to contribute something, including 
our Beginners and "Only Yet/Still Technicians", as well as Howard, Mike, 
Mike and Mike :-)  Len and everobody else who "deletes" when the 
names Elisabeth 'n Toby appear on their message screen......
THIRDLY,, I would like it to be truly "global" and therefore also 
available on a global scale. That, I think, necessitates a certain 
amount of "hard" copies.I wonder how many Public Libraries in Poland, 
Netherlands and UK are "hooked up" to the Internet. UK is not exactly 
a Third World" Country, but of the 5 libararies I know of reasonably 
near, none of them are "hooked up" - at least for public 
consumption... In my "crop" of last year's about 100 students, only 
one had limited & restricted access to the Internet at work. (Mary 
Armstrong has got a very valid point in her last posting.
But since we already have a PRINTER, let her speak as to the format 
that people should submit designs to Joyce our COLLECTOR for hard 
copy print.... But let's be careful and not to try and run, before we 
can walk. Let's take this step by step. Joyce, no doubt, has already 
started to collect together the names of people who are willing to 
donate designs (any Prairie-designs amongst you folks. I have only 
just recently come across them and am fascinated... was totally new 
to me..). I would also donate a couple of designs or so. One of them 
at least I feel ought to be a traditional "ethnic minority" (in my case 
Swedish). Oh, Joyce, don't forget to add Barbara Snell to your list!!
 But I am myself falling into the trap of running before I 
can walk....
Methinks, this idea is quite catching...

FOURTHLY, I would like it to pay for itself in some way. IF there was 
some proceeds from it, for this to go to some sort of charitable 
fund. Who knows, we might find the experience such great fun and 
worthwhile, that we might want to repeat it again. Then - perhaps - 
we might look at the possibility of  financial rewards for our input. 
But that's a long way away yet. Whatever my input might be, I too am 
quite happy to give it free as a donation, and put it against my 
"business expenses" as promotional expenses.Making the public aware 
of stained glass, making potential students more keen to learn about 
it, has ultimately got to be good for business - one day.
 For this project, each of us DONATES 
something we are good at, but it has to be exclusive original to each 
of us. (The usual proviso that nothing under the sky is ever NEW). 
Whether you offer  design/s or an ability, it's up to you.
         Hilary, you asked, what could you be volunteered as?
My question: What would you like to do? What are you good at?

Obviously, this whole idea is still very new. We will be tossing it 
about for a while yet. There is still the ground-work to be done,; we 
haven't even started with "who does what", nor is the "baby" even 
conceived.... we have just decided that we would quite like one. The 
how, when, where,why and what and whom by is still wide open...
 I just think it has such great potentials that 
it would be sad if it "fizzles out" in the steam of a lot of hot air. 
I have been both amazed and amused at the extent the enthusiasm has 
sparked off. So I am convinced, that it could be great and great fun, 
if  we could keep up the "staying  power"    :-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby


  Good Morning               
                I just created a new mailbox for Glass Atlas.... this
discussion is getting serious.  I really like the idea of sharing the
information over the net vs. publishing.  
                I have just started designing my own patterns and have
tripped into an area that pleases me ..... I have been designing fans that
can be either attached to elec stands as a night /accent light or placed in
plate stands.  Only one completed so far.
                ( Mardi Gras time of year is a perfect time for getting
inspired, the colors are so rich.)
                I have several patterns ....  used all of my skills that I
learned in the lst grade with construction paper and glue. Worked pretty
good, so far the easiest way for me.  (We all start somewhere, right?)   I
will get serious about the patterns and make sure they can be used by real
people... Elisabeth I wished I lived next door so you could help me with
Dragonfly.  I am afraid I am not quite ready for that.
                        
                        Bottom line, I would like to contribute as well as
gain more than I have from all of you.... 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:09:38 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:25:19 +0000
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Hi Barbara,
You really had me "hooting" in  wicked laughter. "nattily dressed 
sales-attendant", heh; piped music and chintz sofas (and pigs might 
fly!!)
Here in UK, we have really gone over-board on "political 
correctness"; you are no longer a "patient" at a hospital, but a 
"client"; if you just have murdered someone with a gun, you have 
become a "ballistically challenged client"; if you are "blind" you 
are "visually challeneged"; if you have spent the last 6 years 
unemployed, you are "professionally challenged" or a "Job-Seeker".so 
 to translate from your delicate phrasing of "not being sure-footed" 
in NEW UK terms would read "orthopedically challenged".
Doing stained glass.... I think... I must be "mentally challenged" ..
 i.e. "nuts"!!
Love it!     ;-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

You wrote:
>whenever I want.  I see others doing the same.  Are you sure-footed?  :)
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:19:31 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of Patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 23:17:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.181726.0>
References: <<1997Feb9.104238.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

Shirley Suter wrote:
> 
> Hey Dudes and Dudettes!!!
> 
> OK, OK, OK....I just knew I would manage to find a good spot in this
> discussion to jump into...a job perfectly suited to my particular
> situation and talent.....well, here it is:
> 
> IF YA'LL WANT IT ON THE NET, I WILL VOLUNTEER THE SERVER SPACE
> 
> I also have a scanner and will be happy to scan patterns and pictures
> for this project for free.  Give a shout if you want either.


Would you have space for all the patterns available?  Or would just a 
listing be available with an email for requests?  If you are willing to 
do the scanning, and put up the server space...should I turn the whole 
collecting thing over to you?  Or how would that work?  Please email me 
for more discussion on the subject.

Sorry for any past greivances....I hope we can work together on this.

Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:22:51 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Elizabeth's US visit
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:39:49 +0000
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Hi Meg,
So What!!
Would love to...
Plenty of time...
Elisabeth 'n Toby



Meg wrote:
Me too ... but I'm in Costa Rica, so add a stop!  Meg


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:23:26 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:39:49 +0000
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Hi Meg,
Scale DOWN??!
Absolutely NOT!!
It'll just mean that your design will take up a few more pages.
That's all. Perfectly legitimate...

Don't let "print size" intimidate you!!   (Joyce!!?)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Meg wrote:
I would be glad to share a design or two... however, several of my better
ones are for panels of up to maybe 2x3 feet.... how to scale that down to 8
1/2 x11 and not loose small details???? Or should the designs all be simple,
or for suncatchers???? 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:25:09 1997
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From: phil7 <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 22:45:41 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.144541.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970116160513.1c97b624@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
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Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> I would be glad to share a design or two... however, several of my better
> ones are for panels of up to maybe 2x3 feet.... how to scale that down to 8
> 1/2 x11 and not loose small details???? Or should the designs all be simple,
> or for suncatchers????  Meg
> 
> At 10:20 PM 2/8/97 -0700, you wrote:
> >       However, one thought comes to mind.  To simplify the printing
> >process, I'd recommend that all submitted designs be print ready --
> >that is, presented on, oh say 81/2 X 11 white paper, with thick
> >(Sharpie-made) lines.  And possibly submit a photo of the finished
> >product, if available?
> >
> Richard and Meg LaVal
> apdo. 24-5655


Hi everyone, 
  
Let's not go with the small page, Cindy says the next size up is 11x17.

This is a better size for larger patterns and maybe the 2x3 ft. panels 
will scale down better. The paper cost is minimal(spelling) and looks 
more professional. Where's Mike Firth, he has a major knowledge of this 
source of information.  Al Lewis is a perfect fit. The IGGA would be a 
wonderful place to park this project when it's done. 

phil7



> Monteverde
> COSTA RICA
> tel: 506 645 5052
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 20:41:06 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: New HiGlass Web Site
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 23:31:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.183151.0>
References: <<199702092146.QAA11697@ns.computer.net>>
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I tried it and it is a 'frames' page. What browser and release are you
using?  If it's Netscape and less than rel. 3.0, you can't really
process frames. same thing with MSIE, but I don't use Explorer, so I
don't know which release works with the latest HTML. If your'e using
AOL, or some other ISP, you may be stuck, on these and other frame
pages. I know you can use Netscape on AOL, but just for the web, not
mail and Usenet. Gates says MSIE will always be free, so you might want
to hop to the MS home page and grab a copy, if it will work with your
ISP        
<snip>
Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > >http://www.wt.com.au/~rdeint/higlass.htm
> 
> > Would love to check it out....having problems connecting.  You 1st page with
> > HiGlass is the only thing that loads.  Nothing else.
>
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 21:51:08 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castles
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 21:47:16 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.134716.0>
References: <<199702100407.EAA23081@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Bonnie,
> I absolutely love the address "fishbait". It really does conjure up
> some pictures!!!
> Castles!!
> The reason why folks may not have replied instantly at "the button",
> is perhaps because you have sent them away, scurrying into their
> resources, madly looking for "castles".  (It's kinda difficult to do
> two things at once....)
> Why I assume this, is because I myself have done exactly that....
> I don't know that USA is particularly filled with castles ( Although
> Disneyland might have one or two...). Living in UK, there is the the
> odd castle here and there; Wales and Scotland a fair number. Germany,
> I think is the place where you should look for the type of castle I
> think you are aiming for, especially Southern Germany (Bavaria)
> Recently, we have more information about (former) East Germany. I am
> the prouud owner of a series of Art Nouveau stained glass designs
> from all over former East Germany. One of them could possibly be
> modified to  a castle (it includes a church and the tail end of a
> castle).
> On the other hand, if you spoke very nicely to Martin Streng in
> Holland (who is in our group) he might be able to give you a few more
> "pointers" where to look. He is not German, but he lives closer to
> Germany than I do. Martin, there is this particular  castle
> just north-ish of Munich, which is called either Schloss Traunstein
> or Schloss Schwanstein (I have really forgotten over the years. Was
> it one of "Mad Ludwig's" creations...?).  The German Tourist Board
> has often used it in their posters as promotional pictures for
> Bavaria.Stylized and modified, I suppose it could be converted to a stained
> glass design.
> Bonnie, IGGA stands for the International Guild of Glass Artists, of
> which Albert Lewis is a Director.  You can reach IGGA at
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> Check it out and see what you think.
> Good Luck!
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> Bonnie wrote:Ok, folks I am fairly new at stained glass (one year at it).  Sold all
> our show qualtity rabbits and turned the barn into a stained glass room.
> Really nice, I have a large working table, lots of counter space, a
> built in light table, a drafting table, lots of space for glass storage,
> and a peg board for hanging tools, a laundry tub with running hot and
> cold water and even an old refrigerator to keep my pop cold.  I left
> space in the corner for my husband's N-Gauge train layout, but he hasn't
> put it there yet so I am gradually taking over that space too.
>      Anyway, I connected to this site about a week ago.  So some things
> I know what you are talking about and others I don't.  The latest thing
> I see is the IGGA.  I don't know what it is and would like to know if it
> is a group for people interested in stained glass. What are it's
> benefits.  Do they have a magazine and what does it cost?
>      By the way, I was the one who put something on here the other day
> for the search of a realistic (not fairy tale looking) castle and I
> haven't seen anyone reply to it.  Are they just not available anywhere?
> 
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Guess I should explain my e-mail address since a couple of you have
commented on it. It has absolutley nothing to do with my husband.   It
is actually my old Girl Scout Camp name, but I also work in a plant that
packs fish eggs and I do love to fish, so the name fits.  Now if I could
just think of a name to give my stained glass hide-a-way in the old
rabbit barn.  To those of you that are replying to my questions, thanks
a bunch.  It all helps us lost beginners.
                                      Bonnie
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 23:07:11 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 02:00:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.21023.0>
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Hi all,

I have been thinking about the Atlas project, and will be happy to
donate a couple of original patterns.  Sounds like a wonderful thing to
do, and should be in electronic and print form.  A lot of people still
do not have computers.  Now all I have to do is get into the studio and
create a couple of designs-do I have any firm ideas yet?-no, but "like
topsy" they will grow. See if anyone remembers that saying.  

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 23:18:53 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castles
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 02:11:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.211131.0>
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Hi Bonnie,

Try this for castle pictures and designs-also links to sites all over
the world.

http://www.castles.org/

I just had a great few minutes surfing and found these sites-use search
word  "castles"  with web-crawler or Alta-Vista search engines.

Enjoy
Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Sun Feb  9 23:19:35 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 23:34:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb9.163447.0>
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Hi Albert,
	Cool -- another good reason to join the Guild.  T. in Montana

Albert Lewis wrote:
  
> You've just described in a nutshell almost exactly what Gerry Phibbs
> says is the reason the Guild was formed three-four years ago. I guess
> if an avenue to market the final product is needed, the Guild could
> do it, although I'm talking off the top of my head here without any
> authorization from the Board of Directors.
> 
> I still think a printed version wouldn't be necessary, since the
> images could be stored online and printed out by anyone anywhere.
> 
> albert
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 03:09:47 1997
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From: mdcglas@hawk.rmplc.co.uk (mdcglas)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:08:56 +0000
Message-ID: <v01520d00af24b1566e2a@[194.238.52.58]>
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>On Sun, 9 Feb 1997, Albert Lewis wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I still think a printed version wouldn't be necessary, since the
>> images could be stored online and printed out by anyone anywhere.
>>
>> albert
>
>Mary  wrote
>Albert, mi amor!
>
>
>Must we fall in on the side of the elitists? Must we decree that only
>those with plenty of money and a nerdy edge are good enough to use our
>patterns? Hard as it is for us to remember, there a plenty of folks who
>lack a computer but are still worthy people! Some of them even do glass
<Snip>

Yes a good point but as the patterns will come from the folk on bungi who
are all obviously using computers I feel Albert has the right Idea.

Phil


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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 04:45:18 1997
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To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:51:03 +0000
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> Let's not go with the small page, Cindy says the next size up is 11x17.


I'm reluctant to get involved with this, mostly because I know how 
easily I *do get involved with things, then go full-bore and my 
plate's already full.  But let me point out a couple of things: 

First, I don't think there'd be any problem storing/archiving the 
patterns you all have been talking about in the Guild's space on 
bungi.com -- the space is donated, there's much more space allotted 
to the Guild than it's presently using, and bungi.com's managers have 
said that should more space be needed, it would be made available, 
but ...

Second, the size of the files at 8.5"x 11" -- let alone 11"x 17" -- 
if scanned in at 100% -- will be *enormous, requiring extended 
download times.  Are you sure you *want that?  Besides, the scans can 
be done at a reduction of the original size, stored then in smaller 
files with faster download times, but re-sized easily to whatever 
size you want after you've downloaded them, assuming you're using any 
kind of draw program.

Whoever ends up doing the scanning would also need and want to store 
the files off line.  I don't have space for that, myself, but it 
needs to be thought of. And a backup of the offline files, as well.

Just a couple of thoughts,

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 04:45:53 1997
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> > > Would love to check it out....having problems connecting.  You 1st page with
> > > HiGlass is the only thing that loads.  Nothing else.

Well, I *didn't write that; I was the one who responded that it 
worked fine.  I use NS3.02 and totally but totally avoid MSIE, since 
the first time I loaded it I was asked did I want it to be my primary 
browser and, after answering "no," it went ahead and set itself up as 
primary anyway, deleting all of my bookmarks.  Kinda high-handed.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 05:12:26 1997
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From: carol_allen@mailhost.valpak.com (Carol Allen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Conservation materials 
Date: 10 Feb 1997 08:21:05 U
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.0215.0>
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  RE>>Conservation materials for the glass*   8:01 AM       2/10/97

Please, please, please take me off your email list!!!  I got over 100 =
messages on Friday at work!!   THANK YOU!!  Carol
------------------------------
Date: 2/6/97 11:09 AM
To: Carol Allen
From: glass@bungi.com


JeongJi Lee,

I know there are a number of people in this group that would be happy to
give you advise, but perhaps you could give us more details?

Do you have a sandblasted piece that you are trying to clean or protect =
with
some type of coating?  Is this something you have sandblasted yourself, =
or
are you trying to preserve something you found?

If you can give us more details, I know you will get some helpful =
replies.
Your English is fine, your question is just a little vague.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

At 06:33 AM 2/6/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello!
>
>I needs your help for the conservation materials on the sandblasted
>frosted flat glass surface without coloring which can keep from spots
>and stain and scratch too.
>I dont want to use Hydrofluolic Acid because of danger.
>It would be very helpful for me if you inform me about how you do finish =

>the sandblasted glass surface.
>
>In the mean time, I have checked clear lacuer for coating material.
>Is there any other solution? 
>Pls help me.
>
>Looking forward to hearing good news.
> 
>Best Regards,
>JeongJi Lee
>RDIC
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 06:04:27 1997
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Have enjoyed your 'pieces'..on your personal life, on stained glass, on
your upcoming venture to the States, and of course, on Toby.
One thing you mentioned in your last was the discovery of cheap, cheap
air fares.  Where do you find them? A friend and I want to go to Ireland
for a month this summer and the price quotes are extremely high.  Not to
mention that I cannot find a rental car that is automatic drive for less
than $300 week! Zowie!  Maybe if we can fly cheap we can drive for more.
Make sense??
As far as the glass goes, I asked once for sites to see in Ireland, but
didn't get any response.  Do you correspond with anyone there? Think
they would mind sharing info?
When you come here, hollar.  Be glad to assist in any way I can.  I live
in a very historic large town with lots of Revolutionary, Civil and
present history....Fredericksburg, Va.  Would be proud to show you
around.
Thanks.   Tomi Reneau
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 07:04:36 1997
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castles
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:03:53 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530503af24e88592a0@[129.119.37.12]>
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I'm coming in in the middle of this discussion, so if I muddle things,
please forgive. There is a list of castles at "Castles on the Web" at
http://fox.nstn.ca/~tmonk/castle/castle.html

If you are trying to make patterns from such pictures, you might consider
copying pictures and using the outline feature in Photoshop to help you
develop a pattern. This feature (and I am probably calling it by the wrong
name) identifies the major features in an image and outlines them, thus
making it easier to develop patterns from photos.

=Gary



      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 07:12:18 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Elizabeth's US visit
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 15:11:33 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.151133.0>
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Here, here!  And if you're going through the Midwest (Kansas City area)
please plan a stop.  Would love to show you around.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass



At 05:24 PM 2/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Elizabeth,
>        I hope you are planning an extended visit to the US.  If any of us
>misses the opportunity to meet you we will be very disappointed.  I think I
>can speak for everyone when I say that we have all grown very fond of you.
>
>----
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>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 07:19:00 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:11:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.51145.0>
References: <<199702101244.HAA12190@ns.computer.net>>
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > Let's not go with the small page, Cindy says the next size up is 11x17.
> 
> I'm reluctant to get involved with this, mostly because I know how
> easily I *do get involved with things, then go full-bore and my
> plate's already full.  But let me point out a couple of things:
> 
> First, I don't think there'd be any problem storing/archiving the
> patterns you all have been talking about in the Guild's space on
> bungi.com -- the space is donated, there's much more space allotted
> to the Guild than it's presently using, and bungi.com's managers have
> said that should more space be needed, it would be made available,
> but ...
> 
> Second, the size of the files at 8.5"x 11" -- let alone 11"x 17" --
> if scanned in at 100% -- will be *enormous, requiring extended
> download times.  Are you sure you *want that?  Besides, the scans can
> be done at a reduction of the original size, stored then in smaller
> files with faster download times, but re-sized easily to whatever
> size you want after you've downloaded them, assuming you're using any
> kind of draw program.
> 
> Whoever ends up doing the scanning would also need and want to store
> the files off line.  I don't have space for that, myself, but it
> needs to be thought of. And a backup of the offline files, as well.
> 
> Just a couple of thoughts,
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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acually once converted the scans can acually be quite small, providing
they were's colored in. and once you've switched it to indexed color it
should'nt be a problem. though if the person that does the scanning
does'nt have that equipment, i guess then it would be a little harder.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 07:27:25 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castles
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:19:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.51954.0>
References: <<v01530503af24e88592a0@[129.119.37.12]>>
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Gary Shultz wrote:
> 
> I'm coming in in the middle of this discussion, so if I muddle things,
> please forgive. There is a list of castles at "Castles on the Web" at
> http://fox.nstn.ca/~tmonk/castle/castle.html
> 
> If you are trying to make patterns from such pictures, you might consider
> copying pictures and using the outline feature in Photoshop to help you
> develop a pattern. This feature (and I am probably calling it by the wrong
> name) identifies the major features in an image and outlines them, thus
> making it easier to develop patterns from photos.
> 
> =Gary
> 
>       ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
>     ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
>   ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i think it's "find edge", but i'd have to check into that myself.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 08:14:49 1997
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:11:04 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.0114.0>
References: <<1997Feb7.201155.0>>
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Hi Everyone.  I am looking for an antique or GNA orange-yellow or
yellow-orange.  Does anyone know if this glass is available?  I have also
exhausted all of my suppliers trying to find a cherry red antique or GNA
colored glass.  Thanks for you help.  PJ from CA.

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 08:34:50 1997
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:31:04 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.0314.0>
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Hi Len:  I have not really had a problem with clients not wanting to pay
for their commissions.  Most of my commissions are original designs and
usually by the time I am finished, I really don't care if the customer
wants to pay for it or not.  I have not had the happen, but I would really
like to keep more of my stained glass panels.  Also, I work out of a home
studio so I do not have the overhead retailers have.  I certainly
understand there should be written contract/agreements.  My 2 pennies.  PJ
from CA.

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 08:35:39 1997
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From: Paul Deutsch <beermug@snowcrest.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Elizabeth's US visit
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 08:35:08 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <199702101635.IAA25430@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Sometimes you can fly as an air courier at an EXTREMELY cheap fare, there
are other ways too, try
http://www.netexcel.com/sea-air

It's a travel agent site, (I know the lady) and you can "e" her from the
site, she traveled as air courier to Europe several times, before becoming
an independent agent and can help you out if you have any questions.  She
now does seminars on the West coast on how to travel cheaply!  Believe me,
if there's a cheap way to travel, she'll find it!!!!

>One thing you mentioned in your last was the discovery of cheap, cheap
>air fares.  Where do you find them? A friend and I want to go to Ireland





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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 09:07:18 1997
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:02:49 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.1249.0>
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I think the Glass Atlas project is simply great.  Rather than have to
decide whether online or hardcopy...why not both?  PJ from CA

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 10:41:32 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:41:01 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.18411.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Fremont Antique has some real nice reds, yellows and oranges ..... also
Casimer Antique (although Casimer tends to be expensive, it's made in Poland
so I'm sure there is excess freight and duties, etc).  Don't know what part
of Calif you're in, but if you're near Brea, check with MacBeth's Stained
Glass.  Gary MacBeth has about the best selection in Orange County and I
know he can get about anything you need.  


At 04:11 PM 2/10/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Everyone.  I am looking for an antique or GNA orange-yellow or
>yellow-orange.  Does anyone know if this glass is available?  I have also
>exhausted all of my suppliers trying to find a cherry red antique or GNA
>colored glass.  Thanks for you help.  PJ from CA.
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 14:26:38 1997
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From: Elaine Crable <crable@xavier.xu.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Elizabeth's US visit
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:27:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.122712.0>
References: <<1997Feb10.4728.0>>
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Organization: Xavier University
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Elizabeth...you have been very helpful with suggestions..and patient 
with all my "newbie" questions SO if you are going through Cincinnait, 
Ohio do let me know and I can show you around as well.

Bye
Elaine
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 15:20:54 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:38:15 +0000
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Hi Phil,
 Patterns will be coming FROM folks with computerss, 
but will they also GO TO folks with computers??
Not necessarily.
There is a 2-way traffic here... Both must be considered.
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Phil wrote:
 but as the patterns will come from the folk on bungi who
are all obviously using computers I feel Albert has the right Idea.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 15:23:37 1997
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From: George <junkman@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass polishing equipment
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:27:05 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.16275.0>
References: <<1997Jan8.22111.0>>
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BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> There is a product called "Back Magic"  4 oz runs around $6.  You apply it
> after final slumping to add shine, glossiness and smooth appearance.  Won't
> remove texture since it's only fired to 975 degrees but makes things look
> better.  Barbara
> ----
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Barb,
Where can this be purchased.
Thanks
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 15:34:12 1997
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From: George <junkman@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Floor Lamp Base
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:37:33 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.163733.0>
References: <<1997Jan10.41932.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> James R. Laws wrote:
> >
> > I have been trying to find a lamp base for a considerable period of
> > time.  I am looking for a floor lamp base.  Every catalog I find has the
> > same two bases or three basis in a Tiffany style.  When I look at
> > regular bases, they all look like they are for a Tiffany lamps.  I am
> > looking for a simple, modern base.  Does anyone know where I can find a
> > source for other types of bases.
> >
> > I am also curious why all of the catalogs believe that the only type of
> > lanp anyone would ever want to make is a Tiffany.  They seem to lack
> > imagination in this area.
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> to find a lamp base you can #1 try going to an electrical store that
> mainly sells lamps and see what they have in thier private catalogs. or
> #2 build one you self.
> 
> most lamps are known as tiffanys so for the most part they'll look like
> tiffany. mainly because some people are just not very creative. the
> other base around (and i think only in kits), is the frank lloyd wright
> bases but mainly there all oblisk shaped pieces of mahagony.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


I have seen some nice wrought iron bases in catalogs...Does anyone know 
where they are from.. Often thought they would make nice bases for the 
glass... Hate to say this, but I found these bases in the Sears Home 
Catalog, so thre must be a nice oriental company supplying them.  Bite 
my typing fingers..HA!
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 15:37:39 1997
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From: George <junkman@usaor.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:41:11 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.164111.0>
References: <<970110.151423.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>>
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Precedence: bulk

mail wrote:
> 
> I've been looking through the catalogs I can find (I'm still straightening
> up from the before Christmas madhouse - but that's another story), and I
> can't find anyone who carries the "bezel clocks".   Those are the clocks
> that are round and self-contained and generally run on a watch battery
> or AAA battery.  I've seen them in stained glass and in wood, etc., so
> there must be a reasonable source.  Any ideas?
> Thanks.
> And the weekend comes not a minute too soon!


Yes, ARTCRAFT in Ohio has them.. the smaller ones say 2" round are 
under $5.  If interested will send you their 800 number.
> 
> --
> Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
> UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
> HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 16:28:01 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: I'll take that one, and that one...
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:26:42 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.142642.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello All,

Yesterday was my birthday and for a gift, my husband took me to United Art
Glass and I got to pick out a few pattern books and several sheets of glass
that I loved.  He and my daughter helped pick out some really outstanding
pieces and we all had a great time looking at the colors together, oohing and
aahing and discussing the pros and cons of each sheet.  And it got him more
interested in what I'm doing because he now has a better understanding of it.
 He even thanked me later in the day for giving him the gift of colors!
 (He's a concert pianist and a lot of his world is in black and white -
tuxedos, piano keys, music etc.)  That was the sweetest "present" of them
all!  Anyway, I highly recommend an accompanied trip to pick out glass
together as an excellent gift choice - something that a mere gift certificate
couldn't begin to approach!

Susie
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 16:29:39 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Elizabeth's US visit
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:29:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.142913.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elisabeth,

If you'd like to see Chicago, I'd be happy to show it to you.  I also have a
wonderful little family who love my artwork and are very supportive and a
sweet little dog who might be able to make you miss Toby just a little bit
less.  I also live about 15 minutes away from United Art Glass and you could
have some REAL fun there!  

Susie
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 16:33:23 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:32:55 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.143255.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd be interested in this number!  I've been looking for them too.

Susie


In a message dated 97-02-10 18:41:19 EST, you write:

<< 
 Yes, ARTCRAFT in Ohio has them.. the smaller ones say 2" round are 
 under $5.  If interested will send you their 800 number.
  >>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 17:43:46 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:39:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.153945.0>
References: <<1997Feb10.164111.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

Here is a mail order wholesale company of clock components, including
the bezel clocks-you can choose from several different stem depths also.
PM PRECISION MOVEMENTS-clock parts and kits	800-533-2024
they are in Pennsylvania

enjoy
Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations


George wrote:
> 
> mail wrote:
> >
> > I've been looking through the catalogs I can find (I'm still straightening
> > up from the before Christmas madhouse - but that's another story), and I can't find anyone who carries the "bezel clocks".
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 17:56:51 1997
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X-Path: televar.com!fishbait
From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:50:56 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.95056.0>
References: <<199702102320.XAA24163@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Phil,
>  Patterns will be coming FROM folks with computerss,
> but will they also GO TO folks with computers??
> Not necessarily.
> There is a 2-way traffic here... Both must be considered.
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> Phil wrote:
>  but as the patterns will come from the folk on bungi who
> are all obviously using computers I feel Albert has the right Idea.
> 
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

I have a computer, but I would rather have it in book form.  I would pay
extra to have the book and not have to mess with the computer downloads.
Bonnie
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 18:33:56 1997
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From: Chua Hock Beng <chuahb@technet.sg>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:33:21 +0800 (SGT)
Message-ID: <199702110233.KAA03625@sagan.pacific.net.sg>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have a hard time trying to come up with such paper, fortunately the client
I worked with so don't really interested in paper.

I would very much appreciate if u could mail me a sample copy.

Thank you and best regard.


At 20:25 7/02/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi fellow forum members;
>        A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
>contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
>coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about it
>more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.
>
>1.  It seems only fair to tell the client at the outset, how much a project
>will cost.  However, if you haven't an approved design, how do you know how
>much to charge?  The kind of glass, the number of pieces etc... are still
>unknowns...
>
>2. This particular agreement which I kept a copy of, has a warranty
>section... which seems only fair to the client.  However what is the usual
>period of years that one guarantees the workmanship and materials for?
>
>I was thinking of asking 25% before starting 25% after finished approved
>design, and 50% on delivery.... does that sound okay? 
>
>
>Thanks for any advice or comments on this one, and thanks for the advice on
>the Mosiac question!     Meg
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 18:48:18 1997
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From: "Maverick" <ejl2@enter.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Price Comparison
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:47:43 -0500
Message-ID: <199702110247.VAA26251@mail.enter.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



----------
> From: Maverick <ejl2@enter.net>
> To: SusieHUs@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Price Comparison
> Date: Monday, February 10, 1997 6:21 PM
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> > From: SusieHUs@aol.com
> > To: ejl2@enter.net
> > Subject: Re: Price Comparison
> > Date: Sunday, February 09, 1997 5:17 PM
> > 
> > In a message dated 97-02-08 19:07:36 EST, you write:
> > 
> > << If you compare Delphi's and Glass Crafter's prices to
> >  Warner-Crivellaro's prices you will be
> >  astounded at the difference!!!! I may be partial, probably because
> >  I've been buying from them for years, but no one else can match the
> prices.
> >  Just for instance - if you add up the
> >  prices of the following items (i've ordered most of this stuff in the
> last
> >  year):
> >           ITEM            GLASSCRAFTERS           DELPHI         
> >  WARNER-CRIVELLARO
> >  Toyo Pistol Grip            28.95               28.95               
> 22.95
> >  Metal Runners               11.95                9.95                
> 8.95
> >  Grozer/Breaker               7.95                6.95                
> 5.95
> >  Temptrol 100 Iron           42.95               44.95               
> 39.95
> >  Pop Top WIZ Grinder         89.95               85.95               
> 56.95*
> >                                                                  
*(with
> >   >>
> >   Hello Maverick,
> > 
> > Thanks for the reply but I'm a bit confused.  Your statement above
makes
> it
> > sound like you're favoring Warner-Crivallero but your list looks like
> Delphi
> > has the best prices.  Sorry to be so dense but could you clarify this
for
> me
> > please?  I appreciate your help and advice and if W-C has better prices
> then
> > I'd love to know it!
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > 
> > Susie
> 
> Susie,
> 
> Sorry about the confusion.  It appears that my chart went awry in the
mail
> program.
> The chart should show GlassCrafters,Delphi, Then Warner-Crivellaro from
> left to right.
> As you can see, the Warner heading was pushed to the next line, and thus
> creating 
> the confusion.  If you read the last column as Warner prices (and they
> are!) you'll see that they are cheaper than the others.
> 
> Sorry again, hope this helps.
> 
> Maverick
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 19:36:18 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commission agreements
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 22:35:39 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.173539.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-02-10 22:27:56 EST, you write:

<<       A while back we had a discussion on pricing, and
 >contracts/agreements.  Someone even posted theirs, which I saved and is
 >coming in handy now... Thank you.   However, now that I am thinking about
it
 >more carefully, a couple of questions come to mind.
 > >>

Would it be possible to repost a copy of this contract here for us newer
folks?
Susie :-)
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 20:15:53 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Duck... duck... grinder!
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:15:29 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.181529.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

And now a question....

I'd like some input on two different grinders.  The Inland Impulse Twin Spin
was brought to my attention as a good prospect as was the Diamond Max Deluxe.
 The reason I'm looking at these two in particular is because I wanted the
ability to miter edges (for boxes etc) and I'm very interested in making my
own bevels because just about everything I want to make includes them and
before I start spending money on buying them, I'd rather invest in being able
to make them.  The Diamond Max has an upgrade kit that would allow me to do
that and I've been told that the Twin Spin will have an attachment for bevels
coming out in a month or so.  I also like being able to grind flat edges and
each can do that.

I spoke to someone at Delphi and they highly recommended the Diamond Max
saying that they don't sell many of the Twin Spins.  Then she went on to say
that they have fewer returns on the Max.  That sounded odd to me.  I have
also been informed now that Delphi and DTI (who make the Max) are owned by
the same man.  So, I'm asking all of you who have had experience with either
or both of these to please weigh in on this one.  I need your advice.
 Obviously, I can't assume that the people at Delphi are going to be
objective on this question and since this is going to be a costly investment,
I'd rather hear from people who are a bit more impartial.  

I've been trying to get info on these two because of their ability to upgrade
to do bevelling.  Is there any other grinder or way to make bevels that I
should be considering?

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.  So many people have
helped with my past questions and I'd appreciate your indulgence once again!

Susie
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 20:50:23 1997
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From: Jim Jablonski <jimjab@sprintmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: I'll take that one, and that one...
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:51:21 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.125121.0>
References: <<1997Feb10.142642.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Happy B'Day Susie,  my B'Day was on the 5th, and my wife is letting me
spend gobs of money thru the catalogs.  It's like being a kid in a candy
store.  My wife knows that the more I buy (and make) the more she'll
have to display.

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> Yesterday was my birthday and for a gift, my husband took me to United Art
> Glass and I got to pick out a few pattern books and several sheets of glass
> that I loved.  He and my daughter helped pick out some really outstanding
> pieces and we all had a great time looking at the colors together, oohing and
> aahing and discussing the pros and cons of each sheet.  And it got him more
> interested in what I'm doing because he now has a better understanding of it.
>  He even thanked me later in the day for giving him the gift of colors!
>  (He's a concert pianist and a lot of his world is in black and white -
> tuxedos, piano keys, music etc.)  That was the sweetest "present" of them
> all!  Anyway, I highly recommend an accompanied trip to pick out glass
> together as an excellent gift choice - something that a mere gift certificate
> couldn't begin to approach!
> 
> Susie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 21:15:37 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: I'll take that one, and that one...
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 00:14:10 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.191410.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jim,

Happy Birthday right back atcha!  I've been drooling, I mean shopping from
catalogs too.  I saved up money I received as presents for two years (from my
in-laws - lots of money and they hate shopping) and that's what I'm using to
outfit myself now to do glass work.  I saved it up until I found something
that I really wanted to get involved with.  Now I'm finally ready to dive in.
 A lot has to do with the people I've met here too.  I've always loved glass
and all its qualities and I can now say the same about the people who work
with it.  I feel that I've found a first class group of people to "play" with
here.

Susie

In a message dated 97-02-10 23:51:53 EST, you write:

<< 
 Happy B'Day Susie,  my B'Day was on the 5th, and my wife is letting me
 spend gobs of money thru the catalogs.  It's like being a kid in a candy
 store.  My wife knows that the more I buy (and make) the more she'll
 have to display.
  >>

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 22:16:52 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Elizabeth's US visit
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:54:37 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.75437.0>
References: <<1.5.4.32.19970209172459.0067a294@pop.mindspring.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I don't know where all you plan to visit but if you come to Indiana I'll
be gald to share our extra bedroom and help you out in anyway possible. 
Mary   diamonds@juno.com


On Sun, 09 Feb 1997 09:24:59 -0800 Marissa McLaughlin
<marissam@mindspring.com> writes:
>Elizabeth,
>        I hope you are planning an extended visit to the US.  If any 
>of us
>misses the opportunity to meet you we will be very disappointed.  I 
>think I
>can speak for everyone when I say that we have all grown very fond of 
>you.
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 22:16:54 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Floor Lamp Base
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 00:13:05 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.8135.0>
References: <<1997Jan10.41932.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I recently made a stained glass floor lamp and I used a floor lamp base
that was on clearance from our local hardware store. Hope this helps
  Mary  diamonds@juno.com




On Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:37:33 -0200 George <junkman@usaor.net> writes:
>M. Savad wrote:
>> 
>> James R. Laws wrote:
>> >
>> > I have been trying to find a lamp base for a considerable period 
>of
>> > time.  I am looking for a floor lamp base.  Every catalog I find 
>has the
>> > same two bases or three basis in a Tiffany style.  When I look at
>> > regular bases, they all look like they are for a Tiffany lamps.  I 
>am
>> > looking for a simple, modern base.  Does anyone know where I can 
>find a
>> > source for other types of bases.
>> >
>> > I am also curious why all of the catalogs believe that the only 
>type of
>> > lanp anyone would ever want to make is a Tiffany.  They seem to 
>lack
>> > imagination in this area.
>> > ----
>> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>> 
>> to find a lamp base you can #1 try going to an electrical store that
>> mainly sells lamps and see what they have in thier private catalogs. 
>or
>> #2 build one you self.
>> 
>> most lamps are known as tiffanys so for the most part they'll look 
>like
>> tiffany. mainly because some people are just not very creative. the
>> other base around (and i think only in kits), is the frank lloyd 
>wright
>> bases but mainly there all oblisk shaped pieces of mahagony.
>> 
>> ---Mike Savad
>> 
>> --
>> Mike's Stained Glass
>> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>> 
>> Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>I have seen some nice wrought iron bases in catalogs...Does anyone 
>know 
>where they are from.. Often thought they would make nice bases for the 
>
>glass... Hate to say this, but I found these bases in the Sears Home 
>Catalog, so thre must be a nice oriental company supplying them.  Bite 
>
>my typing fingers..HA!
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 22:16:56 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:47:50 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.74750.0>
References: <<1997Feb8.12828.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I too would be interested in the whole group of patterns sent in by glass
artists. Thanks in advance and I appreciate being able to read and learn
from all of you.

Mary diamonds@juno.com
On Sat, 08 Feb 1997 22:20:03 -0700 Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
writes:
>Hi Joyce,
>	How very brave of you.  I have a couple designs I'd like to 
>contribute and I have your address.
>	However, one thought comes to mind.  To simplify the printing 
>process, I'd recommend that all submitted designs be print ready -- 
>that is, presented on, oh say 81/2 X 11 white paper, with thick 
>(Sharpie-made) lines.  And possibly submit a photo of the finished 
>product, if available?
>	Let me know what you think.  And I'll be working on a couple 
>to 
>send to you.
>	Can we market this?  How can each of us get a copy of the 
>final 
>assembled book of patterns?  Do we need to find another volunteer to 
>handle the business end, if any, of this endeavor?  I'm very excited 
>about all of this.  It wasn't too long ago that we were referred to as 
>
>an extended family.  What a cool perspective.  With people like 
>yourselves so willing to give of your time and knowledge, it's almost 
>a 
>folksy way of dealing with others who have common interests.
>	Just so you'll know, we have a small cottage-based accounting 
>business.  So please be aware of how valuable our time is right now.  
>The accounting allows me to treat myself to glass and other little 
>goodies.  But I will devote the time necessary to convert a couple 
>patterns into a format that is deemed best for this type of pattern 
>gathering.
>	You've been so generous and continue to be.  Thanks for taking 
>
>part in this.  I hope it goes forward and is fun for anyone who wants 
>to 
>participate.
>			T. in Montana
>
>> I will volunteer to collect the designs...and hopefully maybe Scott 
>with
>> SGN will volunteer to publish them.....anyone else have any input on
>> directions to go with this, please contact me.
>> 
>> Garden of Glass
>> Joyce Moran
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 22:16:58 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 00:14:15 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.81415.0>
References: <<970110.151423.EST.HCLADM02@uconnvm.uconn.edu>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd also like to have thier 1-800 number. thanks!!
Mary   diamonds@juno.com



On Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:41:11 -0200 George <junkman@usaor.net> writes:
>mail wrote:
>> 
>> I've been looking through the catalogs I can find (I'm still 
>straightening
>> up from the before Christmas madhouse - but that's another story), 
>and I
>> can't find anyone who carries the "bezel clocks".   Those are the 
>clocks
>> that are round and self-contained and generally run on a watch 
>battery
>> or AAA battery.  I've seen them in stained glass and in wood, etc., 
>so
>> there must be a reasonable source.  Any ideas?
>> Thanks.
>> And the weekend comes not a minute too soon!
>
>
>Yes, ARTCRAFT in Ohio has them.. the smaller ones say 2" round are 
>under $5.  If interested will send you their 800 number.
>> 
>> --
>> Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 
>679-4046
>> UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
>> HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 22:16:59 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:56:56 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.75656.0>
References: <<199702091722.LAA06472@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Does Ed Hoy have a catalog or is it just somewhere you need to bo
personally?? I've heard alot about Ed Hoys and how good it was to deal
with him and his staff. I certainly hope to visit his warehouse one day.
Thanks for the help.
Mary    diamonds@juno.com




On Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:22:42 -0600 (CST) len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
writes:
>>
>>Don't know how long it's been since you've been to Hoy's, but I've 
>been
>>"shopping" there for a while and I wander around the warehouse freely
>>whenever I want.  I see others doing the same.  Are you sure-footed?  
>:)
>> Barbara
>
>Hi Barbara,
>
>Now that you mention it I might have appeared to be a stumble bum, Hoy 
>stop
>was always at the tail end of the day which started about 3 a.m. with 
>a 6
>hour road trip.
>
>It's been a few years since I've there. I'm glad to hear that you can 
>pick
>your own sheets.
>
>My work used to be more organic in design and sheet selection was more
>critical. Now I just order a mixed case and hope for the best.
>
>  
>Len
>
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 10 22:46:27 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of patterns
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:05:34 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.16534.0>
References: <<1997Feb10.95056.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Bonnie Clark wrote:
> 
> Toby wrote:
> >
> > Hi Phil,
> >  Patterns will be coming FROM folks with computerss,
> > but will they also GO TO folks with computers??
> > Not necessarily.
> > There is a 2-way traffic here... Both must be considered.
> > Elisabeth 'n Toby
> >
> > Phil wrote:
> >  but as the patterns will come from the folk on bungi who
> > are all obviously using computers I feel Albert has the right Idea.

> 
> I have a computer, but I would rather have it in book form.  I would pay
> extra to have the book and not have to mess with the computer downloads.
> Bonnie

Hi All Who Are Interested and Responding,
	I agree with Bonnie.  I too would rather have book form.  I find 
that downloading is cumbersome.  But -- will go along with the people 
here who obviously know more than I about memory requirements, sizing 
and such.    T. in Montana
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 02:00:22 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass polishing equipment
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 04:59:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.23597.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

<< "Back Magic"  >>
 Can be purchased from Ed Hoy's if you buy wholesale 1800 323-5668.
 Otherwise, simply ask your retailer to order it for you.  If you have
trouble, I could get it for you.  Barbara


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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 02:08:17 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 05:07:00 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.070.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-02-11 01:18:08 EST, you write:

<< Does Ed Hoy have a catalog or is it just somewhere you need to bo
  >>
Hoy's only sells wholesale. If you qualify, give them a call at 1800 323-5668
or just fax over a request with a copy of your business license.  630
416-0448.  Barbara
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 05:24:18 1997
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder!
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:18:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.31811.0>
References: <<1997Feb10.181529.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> And now a question....
> 
> I'd like some input on two different grinders.  The Inland Impulse Twin Spin
> was brought to my attention as a good prospect as was the Diamond Max Deluxe.


I have never used the Diamond Max Deluxe, so can't comment on it, but I 
have the Twin Spin and suggest you buy anything other than that....it is 
NOT my favorite tool.  The touch top on the Impulse itself went out 
after only a few months use of the Impulse.  The Twin Spin attachments 
are a pain in the butt to convert over and it has problems with it's 
water system.  All in all, I think it is too much trouble and will use 
the lamp beveling bits instead, if I want to miter edged for lamps and 
boxes.  The only thing I would use the disc grinder for is a piece that 
has completely straight edges (like for a quilt pattern).  It does make 
that much easier.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 06:18:48 1997
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X-Path: aristotle.net!rwsmith
From: Rebecca Smith <rwsmith@aristotle.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bungi Glass Atlas of Patterens
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:17:51 -0600
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970210202140.25a79c60@aristotle.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

My sentiments go along with Bonnie and T. in Montana. I would prefer hard
copies of the patterns to the computer versions, even though I have complete
and total access to a computer. I look forward in sending a pattern for
consideration. As for Elisabeth's visit to the States, if your near Little
Rock, Arkansas you will have a free place to stay and you can bring your
favorite recipes that we talked about, with you.

  
Rebecca Smith (rwsmith@aristotle.net)

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 06:19:14 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder!
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:18:31 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.141831.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


As a retailer, I like to advocate the Inland Wizard, Wizling and Pop-top
series grinders because I have sold a lot of them and had ZERO comebacks.
Last year I sold five of the Twin Spins and four of them came back with
problems.  Two had extremely high vibration and the other two had either
motor or switch problems. I don't even stock them anymore.  

Sorry, don't have any experience with the Diamond Max, but agree with your
instincts regarding the ownership issue.

Mike Peck 
Summit Stained Glass



At 04:15 AM 2/11/97 +0000, you wrote:
>And now a question....
>
>I'd like some input on two different grinders.  The Inland Impulse Twin Spin
>was brought to my attention as a good prospect as was the Diamond Max Deluxe.
> The reason I'm looking at these two in particular is because I wanted the
>ability to miter edges (for boxes etc) and I'm very interested in making my
>own bevels because just about everything I want to make includes them and
>before I start spending money on buying them, I'd rather invest in being able
>to make them.  The Diamond Max has an upgrade kit that would allow me to do
>that and I've been told that the Twin Spin will have an attachment for bevels
>coming out in a month or so.  I also like being able to grind flat edges and
>each can do that.
>
>I spoke to someone at Delphi and they highly recommended the Diamond Max
>saying that they don't sell many of the Twin Spins.  Then she went on to say
>that they have fewer returns on the Max.  That sounded odd to me.  I have
>also been informed now that Delphi and DTI (who make the Max) are owned by
>the same man.  So, I'm asking all of you who have had experience with either
>or both of these to please weigh in on this one.  I need your advice.
> Obviously, I can't assume that the people at Delphi are going to be
>objective on this question and since this is going to be a costly investment,
>I'd rather hear from people who are a bit more impartial.  
>
>I've been trying to get info on these two because of their ability to upgrade
>to do bevelling.  Is there any other grinder or way to make bevels that I
>should be considering?
>
>Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.  So many people have
>helped with my past questions and I'd appreciate your indulgence once again!
>
>Susie
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 06:27:23 1997
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X-Path: digital.net!agw
From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder!
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:25:41 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702111425.JAA17167@digital.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Susie,

This is Jennifer from Diamond Tech International.  I know you asked for an
impartial opinion but I'd like to clear up the issue of Delphi and Diamond
Tech's relationship.  They are completely seperate corporations run by
seperate management in sepearate parts of the country.  Diamond Tech sells
to all the major distributors and many dealers throughout the country,
companies that are in competition with Delphi.  Furthermore Delphi sells all
of the major brands such as Inland and Glastar, companies that are in
competition with Diamond Tech. Delphi recommended our Diamond Max Grinder
because it is their best selling grinder.

Judging from our return rate and customer and dealer feedback your sales
assocaite was correct in telling you that there are now few returns on the
Diamond Max.  Last fall we made many product improvements on the grinder.
Recent Improvements Include:
1. New stainless steel screws and grinder disks to prevent rusting
2. Reinforced package to eliminate shipping damage
3. Extra motor seals to eliminate bearing damage
4. Pre-greased shafts, bits and disks
5. Extra tube of anti-seize lubricant included 
6. Attractive new packaging for in-store display
7. 5 year warranty

These improvements have reduced our return rate by over 90%.  Other Diamond
Max features include:
1. Max grinders all use the same powerful base grinding unit (1/8 hp),
making them completely and easily convertible for additional grinding
functions.  
2.Max grinders grow with you for every grinding need saving you money and
studio space (example: Power Max converts to Diamond Max or Bevel Max,
Diamond Max converts to Bevel Max, Bevel Max converts to Diamond Max).
3.The Diamond Max is two grinders in one. Compare the price of a regular
router grinder and a replacement disk to the price of the Diamond Max - an
excellent value.

Our return rate is less than 4% and since the product improvements on the
grinders last fall we have had very few problems or returns of Max grinders.
I have utmost confidence in these grinders and that we are giving our
customers a high performance, feature packed grinder that is an excellent value.
 
If you have any questions or to request a catalog please call DTI at
800-937-9593.  For more product information visit
http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/dti.

Thanks,
Jennifer Daniels
Diamond Tech International

================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 06:54:26 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Pace-makers and Soldering Irons
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:54:04 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.14544.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Hi All,

Just ran across a curious problem last night so thought I'd take some time
to post a question to see if others had heard of this.

About 3 weeks ago I started a new group of beginners, and one lady showed up
the first night, paid for the class in full, then never came to another
class.  I called her last night (hoping it wasn't something I said!) and
learned that she had gone into the hospital to have a pacemaker implanted
and was at home recovering from the surgery.  I offered to hold a spot for
her in the next upcoming class or to give her a full refund and she replied
that her doctor had advised that she stay away from the class because the
pulsing electronics of the soldering irons would interferre with her new
pacemaker.

Anyone ever heard of this?????  It sure took me by surprise.  Appreciate any
comments.



Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 06:58:00 1997
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X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz
From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Commision Agreement 
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:55:33 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702111455.IAA28468@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bunginians, 

This is the agreement that I use and had posted previously. I'll make no
claims that it is the DIFINITIVE contract by any means, but it addresses the
areas that have been prone to misunderstanding in my experience.  I only
started using a contract after getting burned a few times sorry to say. :-(

Len



              COMMISSION AGREEMENT


CRAFTSMAN__________________


CLIENT_________________________



THIS COMMISSION INCLUDES THE DESIGN, FABRICATION AND INSTALLATION OF THE WORK


DESIGN________ The craftsman will submit a design and samples of the
proposed materials. It is understood that the owner has seen examples of the
craftsmans previous work, has discussed with him the general requirements,
mood, content and architecture and is willing to place faith in the
craftsmans ability to make an acceptable design.

Minor revisions of the submitted design that have been mutually agreed upon
are covered by the design fee. Requests of substantial revisions that would
alter the concept or the spirit of the design are subject to negotiation of
an additional fee.


FEE__________ Total fee for the work is to be____________



PAYMENTS____________ First payment of____________is a design fee and is
payable immediately upon signing of this agreement by both parties and is
nonrefundable regardless whether or not the design is accepted. Second
payment of_________is payable upon completion of the working cartoon. Final
payment of________is payable on the day of the completion of the
installation of the work.


The craftsman will be responsible for the installation of the work. The
owner will provide the placement of the structural elements necessary for
the installation of the work.

WARRANTY_______ the craftsman warranties the work for________ years against
defects in workmanship and materials

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 07:34:44 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder!
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:27:13 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.52713.0>
References: <<1997Feb10.181529.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> And now a question....
> 
> I'd like some input on two different grinders.  The Inland Impulse Twin Spin
> was brought to my attention as a good prospect as was the Diamond Max Deluxe.
>  The reason I'm looking at these two in particular is because I wanted the
> ability to miter edges (for boxes etc) and I'm very interested in making my
> own bevels because just about everything I want to make includes them and
> before I start spending money on buying them, I'd rather invest in being able
> to make them.  The Diamond Max has an upgrade kit that would allow me to do
> that and I've been told that the Twin Spin will have an attachment for bevels
> coming out in a month or so.  I also like being able to grind flat edges and
> each can do that.
> 
> I spoke to someone at Delphi and they highly recommended the Diamond Max
> saying that they don't sell many of the Twin Spins.  Then she went on to say
> that they have fewer returns on the Max.  That sounded odd to me.  I have
> also been informed now that Delphi and DTI (who make the Max) are owned by
> the same man.  So, I'm asking all of you who have had experience with either
> or both of these to please weigh in on this one.  I need your advice.
>  Obviously, I can't assume that the people at Delphi are going to be
> objective on this question and since this is going to be a costly investment,
> I'd rather hear from people who are a bit more impartial.
> 
> I've been trying to get info on these two because of their ability to upgrade
> to do bevelling.  Is there any other grinder or way to make bevels that I
> should be considering?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.  So many people have
> helped with my past questions and I'd appreciate your indulgence once again!
> 
> Susie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i have both grinders. 

the twin spin is a good grinder, it has a large edge for grinding glass,
wich is a nice feature. it also has a small resavoir to drip water on
the wheel, along with an inner area to keep the edge of the wheel wet.
the twin spin can also become a normal grinder or a touch top (though it
seems that that feature always breaks). though the wheel is small, the
motor is pretty powerfull. the bevel guides still need work though, they
to short (they scrape the wheel), and it's difficult to see what your
doing. the resavoir in the top drains really quickly, and you have to
stop what your doing and re-fill it (i made a constant drip system, by
tapping in to a local pipe). unless they change the table top, chances
are the bevel wheel is probably going to be to small.

the bevel max (i don't have the reg. max), has a much larger and rougher
wheel. i hav'nt gotten a sucsesfull bevel yet, but i really hav'nt been
trying to hard either. so far it only does straight lines or outside
curves, the wheel is about 6" dia. so the glass can't be any longer than
5". it comes with a water bottle that dispenses the water, (just make
sure you have the splash shield for the gringer up or you'll get
soaked). it grinds very quickly, but the layout of the system is
awkward. first the switch is'nt conveintly located, it's towards the
back, your arm gets wet when you switch it. the drain should be in the
back, as should the cord, which is now on the side of the unit, having
to snake around the system.  they say that a curved bevel upgrade is in
the works.  it also came with a basic video, though the bevel block,
did'nt come with my system, i had to ask for it seperatly (don't know
why). 

Gem stone makes a bevel grinder, never tried it, don't really like
gemstone grinders very much. i think wittemore-durgin sells it. 

i think there's another bevel frinder made by glasstar, buy i forget.
and of course there's the comercial ones, but there huge and expensive.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 07:43:35 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pace-makers and Soldering Irons
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:36:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.5366.0>
References: <<1997Feb11.14544.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike Peck wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Just ran across a curious problem last night so thought I'd take some time
> to post a question to see if others had heard of this.
> 
> About 3 weeks ago I started a new group of beginners, and one lady showed up
> the first night, paid for the class in full, then never came to another
> class.  I called her last night (hoping it wasn't something I said!) and
> learned that she had gone into the hospital to have a pacemaker implanted
> and was at home recovering from the surgery.  I offered to hold a spot for
> her in the next upcoming class or to give her a full refund and she replied
> that her doctor had advised that she stay away from the class because the
> pulsing electronics of the soldering irons would interferre with her new
> pacemaker.
> 
> Anyone ever heard of this?????  It sure took me by surprise.  Appreciate any
> comments.
> 
> Mike Peck
> Summit Stained Glass
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

hmm that's intresting. what iron was she or other's using? i suppose a
reostat could cause this. but it sounds more like someone had a cell
phone or something really near by, and unless the doctor abouslutly
knows that was the cause i really would'nt worry. chances are the
patient probably blurted out the soldering iron, adn that was a good a
cause as any. or just pure coincidence.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
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 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 07:43:49 1997
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X-Path: nwrain.com!walt
From: Walt Boepple <walt@nwrain.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mold Makind Material
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 07:41:59 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb10.234159.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know if the company Gardens In Glass, 219 Rose Ave, Venice, 
CA  90291 is still in business.  The phone number we have is now a 
disconnected number.

They made "Formula B Multifire Mold Material" for making your own molds 
for slumping.  We would like to find where we can purchase more of this 
material.

If you have any answers please drop me a line at walt@nwrain.com

Thanks,

Walt
-- 
Walt Boepple                                 walt@nwrain.com
Boepple Chiropractic                         (206) 927 6100
Association of Stained Glass Lamp Artists
Milton, WA 98354

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 08:11:05 1997
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:06:18 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.0618.0>
References: <<1997Feb10.18411.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike:  I live on Central Coast between Los Angles and San Jose.  I will
check with Franciscian Glass and Delphi as suggested by Anthony.  Thanks
for your reply.  Peggy.

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 08:13:22 1997
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From: April Paine <vgplugs@primeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mold Makind Material
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 11:17:17 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.191717.0>
References: <<1997Feb10.234159.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd like to know this info to please thanks April


Does anyone know if the company Gardens In Glass, 219 Rose Ave, Venice, 
CA  90291 is still in business.  The phone number we have is now a 
disconnected number.

They made "Formula B Multifire Mold Material" for making your own molds 
for slumping.  We would like to find where we can purchase more of this 
material.

If you have any answers please drop me a line at walt@nwrain.com

Thanks,

Walt
-- 
Walt Boepple                                 walt@nwrain.com
Boepple Chiropractic                         (206) 927 6100
Association of Stained Glass Lamp Artists
Milton, WA 98354

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vgplugs@primeline.com
http://members.tripod.com/~VictorianGreenhouse/index.html






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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 09:35:24 1997
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: grinders/prices
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 09:33:34 -0500
Message-ID: <199702111734.JAA06822@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

This is Howard....I cannot give my usual pity advice (generally ignored)
about any grinders other than the Inland aero and wizling..... I use one at
home one travels to class...........years of usage and abuse and both are
still running, even after my modifications.

As for beveling bits for lamps (panel lamps)......I see no advantage, jig
cut panels, pieces in the panel fit CAREFULLY in another jig, tight assembly
of the finished panels will create thin and neat seams. The width of the
seam is dictated by the amount of panels as well as the thickness of the
glass and the face width of the foil.

I can offer COMPETITIVE prices on specific supplies....after YOUR mind is
made up, let me know....I can have item(s) shipped direct to you from most
manufacturers/distributors.

Enjoy................H


--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 10:39:59 1997
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From: "last name: Anthony" <panthony@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mold Makind Material
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:39:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.83910.0>
References: <<1997Feb10.234159.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Walt, which number do you have? I pulled this off the web I only found
one reference to them:
     Gardens in Glass 
     219 Rose Ave. 
     Venice, CA 90291 
     (310) 399-6601

Good luck, --SB
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 10:41:00 1997
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pace-makers and Soldering Irons
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:58:06 +0000
Message-ID: <199702111840.SAA03791@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the posting. Never heard of this problem before either. 
Wonder if Monona has any comment?

The obvious answer I can see in such a situation is to make sure that 
the "pace-maker student" works with a soldering iron theat does NOT 
have a rheostat or thermostat.
Interesting problem and opens a whole new can of worms.... Will ask 
my electronic engineering friends & GP (Medical General Practitioner 
here in UK) for their opinions)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Mike Peck wrote (snip)
she replied
that her doctor had advised that she stay away from the class because the
pulsing electronics of the soldering irons would interferre with her new
pacemaker.

Anyone ever heard of this?????  It sure took me by surprise.  Appreciate any
comments.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 12:41:33 1997
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X-Path: digital.net!agw
From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder!
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:40:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702112040.PAA13465@digital.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

A
>i have both grinders. 
>
>the twin spin is a good grinder, it has a large edge for grinding glass,
>wich is a nice feature. it also has a small resavoir to drip water on
>the wheel, along with an inner area to keep the edge of the wheel wet.
>the twin spin can also become a normal grinder or a touch top (though it
>seems that that feature always breaks). though the wheel is small, the
>motor is pretty powerfull. the bevel guides still need work though, they
>to short (they scrape the wheel), and it's difficult to see what your
>doing. the resavoir in the top drains really quickly, and you have to
>stop what your doing and re-fill it (i made a constant drip system, by
>tapping in to a local pipe). unless they change the table top, chances
>are the bevel wheel is probably going to be to small.
>
>the bevel max (i don't have the reg. max), has a much larger and rougher
>wheel. i hav'nt gotten a sucsesfull bevel yet, but i really hav'nt been
>trying to hard either. so far it only does straight lines or outside
>curves, the wheel is about 6" dia. so the glass can't be any longer than
>5". it comes with a water bottle that dispenses the water, (just make
>sure you have the splash shield for the gringer up or you'll get
>soaked). it grinds very quickly, but the layout of the system is
>awkward. first the switch is'nt conveintly located, it's towards the
>back, your arm gets wet when you switch it. the drain should be in the
>back, as should the cord, which is now on the side of the unit, having
>to snake around the system.  they say that a curved bevel upgrade is in
>the works.  it also came with a basic video, though the bevel block,
>did'nt come with my system, i had to ask for it seperatly (don't know
>why). 
>
>Gem stone makes a bevel grinder, never tried it, don't really like
>gemstone grinders very much. i think wittemore-durgin sells it. 
>
>i think there's another bevel frinder made by glasstar, buy i forget.
>and of course there's the comercial ones, but there huge and expensive.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>-- 
>Mike's Stained Glass
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>
>New Pages Added:
>
> - More Tips and Techniques
> - How to Fix Mistakes
> - The History of My Shop
> - My Adventures of Mold Making
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 12:43:56 1997
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "mikey friggy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:26:45 -0500
Message-ID: <199702112043.PAA03957@tor-srs1.netcom.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

There are no GNA 'hot' colours available as they are mostly selenium based
and selenium is very difficult to keep in suspension (it's 'weight' causes
it to fall to the bottom of the tank). St. Just's (MNA's) version of drawn
or semi-antique now has a red which is not selenium based but is a red
leaning to the brown side. As for full-antiques, all these manufacturers
make such colours. The most readily available probably being those from
Desag. look for 4-digit stock numbers beginning with 7 or 8. Good Luck,
Mike for Toronto.. 

----------
> From: Peggy W. Johnsen <edupjohn@slonet.org>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
> Date: Monday, February 10, 1997 11:11 AM
> 
> Hi Everyone.  I am looking for an antique or GNA orange-yellow or
> yellow-orange.  Does anyone know if this glass is available?  I have also
> exhausted all of my suppliers trying to find a cherry red antique or GNA
> colored glass.  Thanks for you help.  PJ from CA.
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 12:47:33 1997
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From: "mikey friggy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder!
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:39:30 -0500
Message-ID: <199702112043.PAA04000@tor-srs1.netcom.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jennifer, excuse me for jumping into the fray here, but I also am a large
retailer here in Toronto, Canada, and don't sell the Diamond Max because
apparently it can't be CSA approved for our market. Can you give me any
feedback on this? We do carry your bandsaws and sell a ton with very good
success. Mike at mfig@netcom.ca.


----------
> From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder!
> Date: Tuesday, February 11, 1997 9:25 AM
> 
> Dear Susie,
> 
> This is Jennifer from Diamond Tech International.  I know you asked for
an
> impartial opinion but I'd like to clear up the issue of Delphi and
Diamond
> Tech's relationship.  They are completely seperate corporations run by
> seperate management in sepearate parts of the country.  Diamond Tech
sells
> to all the major distributors and many dealers throughout the country,
> companies that are in competition with Delphi.  Furthermore Delphi sells
all
> of the major brands such as Inland and Glastar, companies that are in
> competition with Diamond Tech. Delphi recommended our Diamond Max Grinder
> because it is their best selling grinder.
> 
> Judging from our return rate and customer and dealer feedback your sales
> assocaite was correct in telling you that there are now few returns on
the
> Diamond Max.  Last fall we made many product improvements on the grinder.
> Recent Improvements Include:
> 1. New stainless steel screws and grinder disks to prevent rusting
> 2. Reinforced package to eliminate shipping damage
> 3. Extra motor seals to eliminate bearing damage
> 4. Pre-greased shafts, bits and disks
> 5. Extra tube of anti-seize lubricant included 
> 6. Attractive new packaging for in-store display
> 7. 5 year warranty
> 
> These improvements have reduced our return rate by over 90%.  Other
Diamond
> Max features include:
> 1. Max grinders all use the same powerful base grinding unit (1/8 hp),
> making them completely and easily convertible for additional grinding
> functions.  
> 2.Max grinders grow with you for every grinding need saving you money and
> studio space (example: Power Max converts to Diamond Max or Bevel Max,
> Diamond Max converts to Bevel Max, Bevel Max converts to Diamond Max).
> 3.The Diamond Max is two grinders in one. Compare the price of a regular
> router grinder and a replacement disk to the price of the Diamond Max -
an
> excellent value.
> 
> Our return rate is less than 4% and since the product improvements on the
> grinders last fall we have had very few problems or returns of Max
grinders.
> I have utmost confidence in these grinders and that we are giving our
> customers a high performance, feature packed grinder that is an excellent
value.
>  
> If you have any questions or to request a catalog please call DTI at
> 800-937-9593.  For more product information visit
> http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/dti.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jennifer Daniels
> Diamond Tech International
> 
> ================================================================
> Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
> Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
> 4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
> Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
> ================================================================
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 12:48:11 1997
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From: "Maria" <rickym@somtel.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: where is everyone?
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:35:42 -0500
Message-ID: <199702112046.PAA30588@quint.somtel.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
	I am trying to find out if there is a problem with my server or if for
some reason there is a problem with the list. I haven't had any messages
from the list since early yesterday and to tell you the truth I miss you
guys. I know I don't offer anything really and you all usually answer any
questions I might have before I even get the chance to ask them but I have
become very attached to all of you. You are a morning 
ritual just like my coffee. So I guess if I don't get any response soon I
will have to call my server and get them moving to fix the problem. I enjoy
the many different kinds of people from all over the world on this list
almost as much as I enjoy working with my glass. Mike S. I went to your web
page and I absolutely loved it all. You do fabulous work and I can't wait
to see more. Also Elisabeth and Let's not forget Toby I saw your page too.
Give Toby a little scratch behind the ears for me and a big hello. Hope to
be reading more soon..... Real soon....

			Maria Haley
			Athens, Maine  USA
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 14:03:20 1997
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X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl
From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder!
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:01:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702112201.RAA28894@vixa.voyager.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Susie!

I enjoyed reading your post and you have touched an issue that comes to the
surface from time to time.  Actually, I got a really good chuckle from it
because you sound as though you are a very discerning individual who is
going to keep us on our toes and also on the straight a narrow.  For that, I
thank you!

First and foremost, everyone at Delphi does stained glass and we try to
provide the most honest and up-to-the-date information based on our
experiences.  I've be doing glass for over 10 years and like yourself am
very selective about the quality of products that I purchase.  No one here
works on commission, so there is no pressure to sell more of one product
than the other.  Part of our customer service is our honesty -- if we don't
like a product, we will share that with you if you ask.

For many years, I myself wanted a disc grinder and debated on whether to
purchase the Glastar G9 disc grinder.  The only problem for me was the
price.  I couldn't justify spending over $300 on a grinder that was only for
straight edges, and then when I looked over the prices for replacement
discs, I simply couldn't afford to go this route.

The Twin Spin is a good product if you are doing very light grinding on
straight edges.  When I tried it out, my biggest frustration was that when
applying any pressure to the grinding disc, it completely bogs down and
comes to a complete halt.

For the most part, the Diamond Max does a very good job.  The one I work
with here, I have to put a very fine disk on so that the glass doesn't chip
too much. If you are going to consider upgrading to beveling, please keep in
mind that it can bevel straight lines and outside curves, but it doesn't
have the ability to do inside curves.  Hopefully by this Summer, Diamond
Tech will have found a solution to this predicament.

Do you have a local stained glass store where you can try out these grinders
so that you can decide for yourself?  Anytime you are looking for quality
products, it pays to demo them first and establish your opinion based on
experience.

Again, thanks for keeping us on our toes!

Stephanie

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 14:07:45 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder!
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:07:15 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.12715.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike,

What does "CSA approval" mean?  Is this a safety thing in Canda like our UL
listed?  

Susie

In a message dated 97-02-11 15:50:02 EST, you write:

<< 
 Jennifer, excuse me for jumping into the fray here, but I also am a large
 retailer here in Toronto, Canada, and don't sell the Diamond Max because
 apparently it can't be CSA approved for our market. Can you give me any
 feedback on this? We do carry your bandsaws and sell a ton with very good
 success. Mike at mfig@netcom.ca.
  >>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 14:24:13 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: rickym@somtel.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: bungi people
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:23:36 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.122336.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Maria,

There were many messages yesterday and today, as usual.  There must be a
problem with your service.

I'll send a copy of this directly to your mailbox too in case you aren't
getting the listserv yet.

Susie
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 14:28:49 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: where is everyone?
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:21:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.122153.0>
References: <<199702112046.PAA30588@quint.somtel.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Maria wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
>         I am trying to find out if there is a problem with my server or if for
> some reason there is a problem with the list. I haven't had any messages
> from the list since early yesterday and to tell you the truth I miss you
> guys. I know I don't offer anything really and you all usually answer any
> questions I might have before I even get the chance to ask them but I have
> become very attached to all of you. You are a morning
> ritual just like my coffee. So I guess if I don't get any response soon I
> will have to call my server and get them moving to fix the problem. I enjoy
> the many different kinds of people from all over the world on this list
> almost as much as I enjoy working with my glass. Mike S. I went to your web
> page and I absolutely loved it all. You do fabulous work and I can't wait
> to see more. Also Elisabeth and Let's not forget Toby I saw your page too.
> Give Toby a little scratch behind the ears for me and a big hello. Hope to
> be reading more soon..... Real soon....
> 
>                         Maria Haley
>                         Athens, Maine  USA
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i don't know if responing to this would help, but there are quite a few
messages, i'd ask them about your e-mail box, something is'nt right.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 14:30:19 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pace-makers and Soldering Irons
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:35:24 +0000
Message-ID: <199702112229.RAA29163@ns.computer.net>
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Precedence: bulk


> > that her doctor had advised that she stay away from the class because the
> > pulsing electronics of the soldering irons would interferre with her new
> > pacemaker.

> hmm that's intresting. what iron was she or other's using? i suppose a
> reostat could cause this. but it sounds more like someone had a cell
> phone or something really near by, and unless the doctor abouslutly
> knows that was the cause i really would'nt worry. chances are the
> patient probably blurted out the soldering iron, adn that was a good a
> cause as any. or just pure coincidence.

Oh, agreed one hundred percent, Mike. S'funny, I had a call from a 
glass fuser who gives a class in Connecticut. He started a class last 
week and a woman in the back (who he says otherwise pretty much 
ignored everything else going on) called out a question about blood 
on the tools and how they were cleaned.

She didn't come back to class afterward, either. But the school where 
the class is given got a letter from her (and her attorney?) about 
HIV-transmissions via bloody tools.  The glass fuser was concerned 
about protecting his back, obviously, and was asking where to get 
printed materials that would give him ammunition to protect himself 
and the school should it get that far.  (He doesn't think it will go 
any farther, but you never know.)

I directed him to Monona Rossol, of course. (Her web site can be 
reached by clicking on the banner on our home page, shown under my 
name, below).

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 14:32:42 1997
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From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass is not a liquid
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 15:31:45 -0700
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Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

i've seen this come up before. using www.dejanews.com, i've found the  
following posts:

Subject:      _Re: Is glass a solid?_
From:         _Philip Gibbs <philip.gibbs@pobox.com>_
Date:         1996/07/09
Message-Id:   <31E22990.3C5@pobox.com>
References:   <4rdkb1$k8m@franklin.its.utas.edu.au>  
<4re4qu$ipg@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> <31DD79CB.2238@flash.net>
Followup-To:  sci.physics
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-Ascii
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sci.misc,sci.physics,alt.folklore.science,alt.folklore.urban,sci.physics.cond-Matter,rec.crafts.glass,sci.chem
X-Mailer:     Mozilla 3.0b4 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.03 9000/755)



Thanks to all those who clarified some of the
crucial issues. I have read through most of
the articles and previous posts which I have
been directed to and I hope I now have a clear
understanding of why glass should be called
a solid. Of course I am no expert and am only
going on what I read which could be incorrect.

I have put together this first attempt at an entry for
the physics FAQ. Please could everyone be extremely
critical (nitpicky if necessary) because I don't want
to put something in the FAQ if it is all wrong.
I suspect I have used some terms rather loosely
or even incorrectly so please point those out.

I am adding some other newsgroups in the header but
have set followups to sci.physics only, because I don't
want to start a massively crossposted thread. You
can respond by e-mail if you prefer.

-----------------------------------------------------

Is glass liquid or solid?

It is sometimes said that glass in old churches
is thicker at the bottom than at the top because
glass is a liquid and over several centuries it
has flowed towards the bottom. This is not really
true. In Mediaeval times panes of glass were made
by forming molten silica into a disc and then
cutting it into pieces. The sheets were thicker
towards the edge of the disc and were installed
with the heavier side at the bottom. Evidence
that glass does not flow is provided by telescope
lenses which after 150 years still maintain
excellent optical qualities. They would be spoiled
by the slightest deformation.


But could it be true that glass flows over *very*
large time scales and should therefore be
classed as a liquid?


Many solids have a crystalline structure on
microscopic scales. The molecules are arranged
in a regular lattice. As the solid is heated
the molecules vibrate about their position in the
lattice until, at the melting point, the crystal
breaks down and the molecules start to flow.
There is a sharp distinction between the solid
and the liquid state which are separated by a first
order phase transition.

A liquid has viscosity, a measure of its resistance to
flow. The viscosity of water at room temperature is
about 0.01 poises. A thick oil might have a viscosity
of about 1.0 poise. As a liquid is cooled its viscosity
normally increases, but viscosity also has a tendency to
prevent crystallisation. Usually
when a liquid is cooled to below its melting point
crystals form and it solidifies, but sometimes it
can become supercooled and remain liquid below its
melting point because there is nothing to nucleate
the crystallisation. If the viscosity rises enough
as it is cooled further it may never crystallise.
The viscosity rises rapidly and continuously forming a
thick syrup and eventually an amorphous solid.
The molecules then have a disordered arrangement but sufficient
cohesion to maintain rigidity.  A substance with such
an amorphous structure is called a glass.

Some people claim that glass is actually a supercooled
liquid because there is no first order phase transition
as it cools and the viscosity rises continuously.
In fact there is a second order phase transition between
the supercooled liquid state and the glass state so a
distinction can be drawn.
At the molecular level a glass has no long range order
like a crystal, but it does have short range order unlike
a liquid.

The situation at the level of molecular physics can be
summarised by saying that there are three main types of
behaviour,

crystalline solids: molecules have long range order
liquids:            molecules are disordered even at
                     short range
glasses:            molecules have short range order
                     but no long range order

It is sometimes said that glass is therefore neither a
liquid or solid, but usually when people talk about
solids and liquids they are referring to macroscopic
material properties rather than the arrangement of
molecules. After all, glass as a material was known
about long before its molecular physics was understood.
Macroscopically materials exhibit a very
wide range of behaviours. Solids, liquids and gases are
ideal behaviours characterised by properties such as
compressibility, viscosity and elasticity. Materials
do not always behave according to such ideals. For example
it is possible to take water from being a liquid to a gas
at high pressure without passing through a phase transition
so at some stage it must be between an ideal liquid and an
ideal gas.

For crystalline substances the distinction between the solid
and liquid states is very clear, but what about glasses?
Some people say that there is no clear distinction between
a solid and a liquid in general. A solid, they claim, should
just be defined as a liquid with a very high viscosity. They
set an arbitrary limit of 10^13 poises above which they say
it is a solid and below which it is a liquid.
But this ignores a clear distinction between viscosity of
liquids and plasticity of solids. An ideal Newtonian liquid
deforms at a rate which is proportional to stresses applied
and its viscosity. For arbitrarily small stresses a viscous
liquid will flow. Pine pitch and Silly Putty are examples
of liquids with very high viscosity which flow very slowly
under only the force of their own weight.

Solids are elastic when small stresses are applied. They
deform but return to their original shape when the stress
is removed. When higher stresses are applied some solids
break while others exhibit plasticity. Plasticity means
that they deform and don't return to the original shape
when the stress is removed.  Many substances including
metals such as copper hove plasticity. The resistance
to flow under plastic deformation is called its
viscoplasticity. This is like viscosity except that
there is a minimum stress known as the elastic limit
below which there is no plasticity.

Glass at room temperature will break when stress is applied
before it reaches a plastic stage, but when it is heated
it does have plasticity even while below the glass transition
temperature. At the glass transition temperature the glass
undergoes a continuous transition from being a solid with
plasticity to being a fluid with high viscosity.

This description may be an idealised simplification of
the real properties of glasses, but it does justify calling
the glass phase an amorphous solid and explains why glass
does not flow like a liquid.


--
====================================================
Phil Gibbs     pg@pobox.com     _http://pobox.com/~pg_

Subject:      _Glass is not a liquid_
From:         _russell@russell.seanet.com (Russell Anderson)_
Date:         1996/06/28
Message-Id:   <russell.71.013EF7E1@russell.seanet.com>
Organization: Not OSD, Inc.
Newsgroups:   rec.crafts.glass


Well, I guess I'm Medievel in my thinking.  I was visiting the Corning Museum 
of Glass at http:/www/pennynet.org/glmuseum/corningm.htm when I read the news 
below.

              ****************************************************************

"  One can occasionally hear in art history courses the erroneous idea that
"Because glass is a liquid, i tflows very slowing. Evidence of this can be
seen in Medieval stained glass windows which are thicker at the bottom than
they are at the top."   This is not true, and the notion behind it is
unfounded.

 Glass does not flow to a measurable extent at room temperature even over very 
long periods of time. Thickness at the bottom, the sides and the top of the
segments that make an entire Medieval stained glass window happened by chance 
in the cutting, and as a result of the manufacture of the disk from which they 
were cut.

 The term "viscosity" is usually applied to liquids, and means, in a
qualitative sense, the resistance that a liquid offers to flow.   A liquid
with a high viscosity such as molasses flows slowly, compared with water with 
a lower viscosity which flows much faster.

 Viscosities are expressed in a unit called the poise.  The viscosity of water 
at room temperature is .010 poise; that of SAE30 motor oil is about 1.0 poise. 
The viscosity of most glass at room temperature is theoretically about 10^19 
to 10^22 poises.

 As the temperature of glass increases, the inflexible molecular network
breaks down into smaller units. Viscosity drops to about 10^7 poises and may 
start to deform under its own weight.  At higher temperatures, viscosity drops 
to 10^3-10^4 poises when the glass will flow into a mold, or can be blown with 
ease.

 When heated to very high temperatures, the viscosities of glasses may be so 
low that they become as liquid as thin motor oil.

 Therefore, glasses, instead of having sharp melting points, soften gradually 
as the temperature is raised (as the weaker chemical bonds, with their
individual melting points, break), until at high temperatures they finally
become quite liquid.  It is this gradual softening over a range of
several hundred degrees centigrade which makes it convenient to describe
glasses in terms of viscosities. " Copyright by the Corning Museum of Glass

Subject:      _Re: What state of matter is glass?_
From:         _Michael Olsen <glassguy@lamar.ColoState.EDU>_
Date:         1996/11/11
Message-Id:   <Pine.A32.3.91.961111130720.77256B-100000@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mime-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups:   rec.crafts.glass



Klass wrote:

> >: At the molecular level it is considered an amorphous solid but can we
<snip>
> The only difference is that metal alloys are crystalline and glasses are
> amorphous.

Really Klaas, you should know better than that!  You grant that a 'glass'
is amorphous, yet you insist that it is a solid?  Really?!?  Check out a
freshman physics text and don't just look at the phase diagrams, but read
the text to see how the diagrams are arrived at and what exactly they are
depicting!  Phase diagrams are a 2-D diagram of the *phase* changes of a
chemical system with varying temperature and pressure.  Take a 'glass'
from room temp (or, 'STP' -- standard temperature and pressure: 20C, 1
atm) to absolute zero, and you will *not* see it undergo a phase change
and 'freeze' into a 'solid' (ie. a state corresponding to large scale
molecular order with a corresponding *entropy* change, which could be
measured *if* it occurred).  Take the glass from room temp to friggin'
hot, and if you do so *slowly* enough you *will* get a phase change -- it
will *crystallize* (devitrify), which is not what you'd ordinarily expect
of something that was *already* a solid!  This is because the phase of the
material was 'trapped' behind a thermodynamic barrier -- ie. on the micro
scale the molecules got 'stuck' without crystallizing, so on a macro scale
it's *rigid* (note I didn't say 'solid'!).  Heat the glass and give it
some time, and the interatomic bonds weaken, and the material will seek
the point of lowest potential energy, by giving up its 'latent heat of
transformation'.  It is precisely this energy that one looks for in order
to say, "Yup, that stuff just *crystallized*!"

This is pretty heady stuff, and when I taught lab (before I got into GB) I
described it like this:  The atoms which are linked together to make-up
*whatever* you're studying are always 'buzzing' relative to each other.
Cool your sample to absolute zero, and, by definition, the atomic motion
will stop, but then, by definition, you can't *reach* absolute zero.  So,
let's start with a crystal at a really low temp and imagine what happens
as it warms.  As it warms the interatomic 'chemical' bonds (Van der Waals,
hydrogen, ionic, covalent) will stretch, flex, and wobble.  This is what
we measure when we take something's temperature.  Now, at some point a
little more heat will break some of these bonds, and we have a phase
change from a solid to a liquid.  The energy required to change this
internal structure is the latent heat of transformation, and corresponds
to the energy required to 'lift' the molecules out of their potential
energy 'wells'.  Thus, at this 'melting point' heat will be added without
a corresponding temperature rise of the sample -- it will just 'melt'.
Heat it further, and at some point you will reach another of these
thermodynamic plateaus, the 'boiling point'.  Just short of this point,
the intermolecular bonds are very short lived, and at this point, the
bonds won't reform once they are broken, and we have crossed the
threshhold to the vapor phase.

I'm going to stop there, because as I go on with this (I was teaching
molecular biology lab) I discuss denaturation of proteins and the effect
upon biological systems with temperature changes.

  Some chemical systems (and, a glass can be considered a chemical system)
will release a *lot* of heat when they crystallize, and there is one
(sorry, I can't remember the chemicals involved) that's used by nurserymen
to heat greenhouses at night (the stuff melts in the sun, and then
releases it's heat of fusion back into the greenhouse as it recrystallizes
at night).

Now, keep adding heat to the glass, and at some point it will *vaporize*.
At the vaporization point the 'melt' will 'stall' (ie. the temperature
rise of the melt will cease and the glass boils) as the 'heat of
vaporization' is added to the system.  Again, this is the energy that one
looks for in order to say, "Yup, that stuff's boilin' off now."  Just as
you can bring water to a boil on your stove, and once it boils it will
never get any 'hotter' (put a thermometer in a pan of water and try it
yourself), so too will everything else, including glass!

Now, there's one other point Klass made:

> Because glass is not a pure substance, but a mere mixture of
> Na2O, CaO, SiO2 and possibly more oxides junk, it has a melting trajectory
> like an alloy.

Again, I think this is covered in freshman science, this time in chemistry
class:  Pure substances have 'sharp' phase transitions.  Mixtures tend to
be broadened, because the physics of the systems are not homogeneous.
What might appear to be an exception to this is when the components of the
system degrade (as with pyrolysis -- heat your bagel too much and it won't
melt, it burns!) but short of such chemical alteration, all substances and
mixtures *do* still undergo the same phase transitions.  You will get
'freezing point depression' and 'boiling point elevation' of a mixed
substance, but it still does crystallize and boil (vaporize).  Put some
salt in your water and it will boil at a higher temp, and freeze at a
lower temp, but at *some* temp it will crystallize and boil.

Now what *is* glass?  It's a (drumroll please...) glass!  According to the
dictionary, glass is a super-viscous liquid characterized by rigidity and
brittleness at room temperature.  It's not a 'solid', and it's not some
special phase of matter.  It's a liquid, and it even has a
temperature/viscosity curve (what Klaas was calling a "trajectory", I
think) just like other liquids.  The only difference is that it has a
'strange' internal potential energy to it (it's 'unstable') since it's
trapped behind a thermodynamic 'barrier', or in a thermodymic 'well', or
however you'd like to describe what scientists describe with numerical
equations and relationships.

Now that I've lost 99% of you, let me say that on the door to my shop is
a sign that reads:

Q: Is glass a solid?

A: No, it's a really 'stiff' gas.


I figure if someone's *really* interested, they'll ask.  Noone has...

Michael
---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 16:15:41 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: contracts
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:09:19 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116183314.2ca733a4@sol.racsa.co.cr>
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--=====================_853468394==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi;
        I saved my contract in a word perfect directory, so will try to send
it with this as an attachment in txt file format.  If you don't get it let
me know and I will type it in for you.  Meg

--=====================_853468394==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


>
>
>I am interested.      
>                   April


Hi, this is Len and this is the language that I use (not formatted)



              COMMISSION AGREEMENT


CRAFTSMAN__________________


CLIENT_________________________



THIS COMMISSION INCLUDES THE DESIGN, FABRICATION AND INSTALLATION OF THE WORK


DESIGN________ The craftsman will submit a design and samples of the
proposed materials. It is understood that the owner has seen examples of the
craftsmans previous work, has discussed with him the general requirements,
mood, content and architecture and is willing to place faith in the
craftsmans ability to make an acceptable design.

Minor revisions of the submitted design that have been mutually agreed upon
are covered by the design fee. Requests of substantial revisions that would
alter the concept or the spirit of the design are subject to negotiation of
an additional fee.


FEE__________ Total fee for the work is to be____________



PAYMENTS____________ First payment of____________is a design fee and is
payable immediately upon signing of this agreement by both parties and is
nonrefundable regardless whether or not the design is accepted. Second
payment of_________is payable upon completion of the working cartoon. Final
payment of________is payable on the day of the completion of the
installation of the work.


The craftsman will be responsible for the installation of the work. The
owner will provide the placement of the structural elements necessary for
the installation of the work.

WARRANTY_______ the craftsman warranties the work for________ years against
defects in workmanship and materials

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--=====================_853468394==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

--=====================_853468394==_--

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 16:16:16 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: "fake" stained glass
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:09:24 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116183319.2ca742da@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear All;
        Was surfing the internet this am and came across an outfit that
advertises turning ordinary glass into stained glass but better because it
is all one piece.... does anyone know what they are talking about????  the
address is http://www.sgoinc.com/  poor customers are having their brains
washed every which away.  They are selling franchises in the usa and
internationally... Costa Rica is even on their international list (with a
bad phone #)!  Meg
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 16:47:10 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "fake" stained glass
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:39:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.143936.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970116183319.2ca742da@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> Dear All;
>         Was surfing the internet this am and came across an outfit that
> advertises turning ordinary glass into stained glass but better because it
> is all one piece.... does anyone know what they are talking about????  the
> address is http://www.sgoinc.com/  poor customers are having their brains
> washed every which away.  They are selling franchises in the usa and
> internationally... Costa Rica is even on their international list (with a
> bad phone #)!  Meg
> Richard and Meg LaVal
> apdo. 24-5655
> Monteverde
> COSTA RICA
> tel: 506 645 5052
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

this is the "peel away" type stained glass. comes out of a bottle,
sticks to the glass. for fake stained glass, this is at least sort of
nice to look at.. i think they sell this junk on those "buy that junk"
shows.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 16:59:46 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pace-makers and Soldering Irons
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 01:16:57 +0000
Message-ID: <199702120059.AAA31657@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Al,,
Did I or did I not mention something about a "new can of worms"....
Pheww!
In UK, people are a bit more "philosophical" about the odd stream of 
blood pouring down tools and glass in a teaching situation. If you 
work with glass, you just have to expect to  get the odd "cut" or 
two.
But the implications of all of this;   heart failures, AIDS and God 
knows what else are quite daunting.
I myself am a qualified Red Cross First Aider. I keep my training 
up-to-date periodically. I am not legally required so to do  under 
UK law (it's just something I feel strongly about) . I also make it a 
"Selling Point" in my courses.
But I am after all a "sub-contractor" at the Colleges where I teach.
We are now getting into realms, where I feel a bit in "deep water"...
What should I do, what should I NOT do ????
a confused & worried Elisabeth
Before this goes out out of hand

> > that her doctor had advised that she stay away from the class because the
> > pulsing electronics of the soldering irons would interferre with her new
> > pacemaker.

> hmm that's intresting. what iron was she or other's using? i suppose a
> reostat could cause this. but it sounds more like someone had a cell
> phone or something really near by, and unless the doctor abouslutly
> knows that was the cause i really would'nt worry. chances are the
> patient probably blurted out the soldering iron, adn that was a good a
> cause as any. or just pure coincidence.

Oh, agreed one hundred percent, Mike. S'funny, I had a call from a 
glass fuser who gives a class in Connecticut. He started a class last 
week and a woman in the back (who he says otherwise pretty much 
ignored everything else going on) called out a question about blood 
on the tools and how they were cleaned.

She didn't come back to class afterward, either. But the school where 
the class is given got a letter from her (and her attorney?) about 
HIV-transmissions via bloody tools.  The glass fuser was concerned 
about protecting his back, obviously, and was asking where to get 
printed materials that would give him ammunition to protect himself 
and the school should it get that far.  (He doesn't think it will go 
any farther, but you never know.)

I directed him to Monona Rossol, of course

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 16:59:47 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: bungi people
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 01:16:57 +0000
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Hi Maria,
There have been quite a lot of activity in the "Bungi Crowd" this 
last few days. I think there must be something amiss with your server.
Thank you for your kind comments.
Toby is getting positively "bolshy" with all the attention. He says 
thank you. 
Glad if you think my contributions  can help & inspire. I am 
occasionally known to be a "titch" abrasive and might call a spade a 
shovel. It's only because I basically care. But also, it's got to be 
fun.....       :-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 16:59:51 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder! ... and Thanks
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 01:16:57 +0000
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Hi Susie, (and all)
I only have one grinder, but that one I have been using for more than 
15 years. It doesn't sing, dance or even make the tea. It does 
exactly what it's supposed to do. It grinds.
It does so wel & efficiently. Now and then it gets a clean-up and a 
pat and another drink of water.
It's the Wizard.
I would love to do some bevel work, but readymade bevels over here 
are limited in choice and expensive. Should I get a grinder that 
would do my bevelling for me?  For the moment I have decided - no -, 
I'll stick with my Old Faithful, as I also want to spend money on 
getting a (decent) colour printer and my "98 Trip to USA".
So for what my recommendations are worth,  you can't go wrong with 
the Wizard.  It's a good all-round grinder, reliable and 
uncomplicated. Ideally... your cutting should - with time - improve 
so much that you only need to  SMOOTH the glass down, rather than 
having to trim and adjust.... all of that takes time. I am still 
learning.....
By the way, to all you fabulous guys out there!: I have had to open 
yet another "file" to cope with the mail I am getting about a 
flippant, tongue-in-cheek initial throw-away pie-in-the-sky fantasy 
of Elisabeth coming to USA... I just can't believe you guys actually 
want to MEET me!!! (Never mind give me a sack to sleep on for the 
night!!!) I will reply to each and everyone of you. It'll 
take a little while (another TAX-Quarter is looming over me, and in 
about a week - I will go awfully quiet, trying to make figures add up 
to meet the dead-line...). I have got a number of ideas how to 
finance the journey, how to finance my sejourn, that I didn't even 
know existed before. I will reply to every SINGLE one of them, little 
by little.
 And for each and every one of you , there is - of course - a very open 
Swedish home in UK to come to. My friends over here are now  getting 
involved on the side-lines of  the first "bunch" coming over in a few 
weeks time.  (Oh! The Americans will LOVE your cottage, they all 
say.)
It's not grand, it's old, it's a bit chaotic, but it's home to me and 
 a respite and a bolt-hole to many others and a "base" for my friends 
from all corners of the World when they come to stay. 6 weeks of 
3 muslim, foot-ball crazy Turks and their German Mother/wife was 
about the most extreme visit. The Muslims found it difficult to cope 
with Toby (and he with them), the contrast of cooking and diets 
easily over-come, the 2 boys were successfully prevented from killing 
each other (which they have been trying for the last 10 years 
anyway); and all-in-all, it turned out to be a rich, rewarding and 
enjoyable visit ( Toby got recompensed afterwards...) So any of you 
"lot" will be a piece of cake.... (Just do the washing-up!)
You have ALL really got me going on this idea of coming over!!

There is another idea that lurks in peoples' minds, that of 
"house-exchanges" on an international level. It's much more popular 
in the rest of Europe than it is here in UK. What about you folks in 
USA? Does it exist? Does it work? Might it be something we Stained 
Glass People could adopt to our own circumstances?
Picture this:
(Good Eevening Madam! I am terribly sorry, but Mr. Mike Savad is 
currently on a Lecture Visit in the United Kingdom. I am terribly 
sorry, but he will be heavily engaged in Engalnd for at least another 
4 weeks.... Then he is due to to make guest lectures in Germany.
You would like to 
order a similar lamp to the Poseidon Lamp? But certainly Madam! Mr. 
Savad's lamps are greatly admired all over the World and much sought 
after. A deposit of USD.6,000 should secure you a first refusal of 
his next lamp in about 8 months time. Cradit Card? Certainly Madam! I 
will confirm your deposit in writing to you tomorrow morning.... 
Thank you so mch for your interest in Mr. Savad's work..... Oh Thank 
you.... And a very pleasant week-end to you too)
........    :-)                     (sigh)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 17:40:01 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: "fake"
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 17:38:13 -0500
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Try the term "Stained Glass Overlay"....in puritancial terms it is probably
truer than what we lump our craft into. We work with colored glass ( colored
by the manufacturer)....glass that has paint (such as church windows) is
"stained glass"(stained by the painting process"

So what.........H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 18:40:44 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass is not a liquid
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:46:20 +0000
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 www.dejanews.com
> Subject:      _Re: Is glass a solid?

Very aptly named site, Charles. <s>  Old news, rehashed again and 
again, alas.

albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 18:41:19 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pace-makers and Soldering Irons
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:46:20 +0000
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> We are now getting into realms, where I feel a bit in "deep water"...
> What should I do, what should I NOT do ????
> a confused & worried Elisabeth
> Before this goes out out of hand

She was a nut case with a lawyer, at worst, without a lawyer at best, 
methinks.  What should *you do?  I could give better suggestions if 
you were in the U.S., but there must be similar rules and such in the 
U.K.  Here, the governmental agency has particularized lately on 
school art programs and is coming down hard. Of course, individuals 
who teach or studios or retail shops that give courses all come under 
the OSHA ruling and should be sure they've complied at least with the 
minimum requirements: a hazards safety program in place and all the 
MSDSs on what's used in their situations.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 21:00:27 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass is not a liquid
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:55:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.185548.0>
References: <<m0vuQjs-000Lj6C@why.az.stratus.com>>
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Thank you Charles,

You have explained something very well in almost lay-man's terms that
has puzzled me since Physics classes at the University-(If I had gone on
to my stated goal, I would be a Physicist now)  instead of having such
interesting adventures in my life.  I have saved the whole for reference
as I intend to be attempting glass fusing by the end of the summer.  I
have just acquired a small used kiln, to begin my experiments. And the
temperature/fusing threshold will be very relevent.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations





Charles Spitzer wrote:
> 
> i've seen this come up before. using www.dejanews.com, i've found the
> following posts:
> 
> Subject:      _Re: Is glass a solid?_

<<<<<very large snip >>>>>>>

> Now what *is* glass?  It's a (drumroll please...) glass!  According to the
> dictionary, glass is a super-viscous liquid characterized by rigidity and
> brittleness at room temperature.  It's not a 'solid', and it's not some
> special phase of matter.  It's a liquid, and it even has a
> temperature/viscosity curve (what Klaas was calling a "trajectory", I
> think) just like other liquids.  The only difference is that it has a
> 'strange' internal potential energy to it (it's 'unstable') since it's
> trapped behind a thermodynamic 'barrier', or in a thermodymic 'well', or
> however you'd like to describe what scientists describe with numerical
> equations and relationships.
> 
> Now that I've lost 99% of you, let me say that on the door to my shop is
> a sign that reads:
> 
> Q: Is glass a solid?
> 
> A: No, it's a really 'stiff' gas.
> 
> I figure if someone's *really* interested, they'll ask.  Noone has...
> 
> Michael
> ---
> Charles Spitzer
> charlie@az.stratus.com
> Customer Assistance Center
> Stratus Computer, Inc.
> Phoenix, AZ
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 21:41:31 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "fake" stained glass
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:37:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.193717.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970116183319.2ca742da@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
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Hi Richard,
I ran into something like this while I was living in Hawaii, It was
esentially a large "Decal" that is applied like a film to a Window, et
al.  It sounds like the same stuff, and not the craft store paint that
one uses an "Outline" paste to coral off the liquid till it dries (and
thus give a sort of "Stained Glass" look.  Which paint I have by the
way, and make "Stained Glass" looking decorated wine glasses.  When
heated in the oven at 250 * it forms a fairly permenant bond.  Not
however, dishwasher safe.  They (the wine glasses) are pretty, fairly
durable, but certainly not really "stained glass"-BTW the paint goes on
the outside-no danger of contaminating a liquid inside.

The 'Stained Glass Overlay' was the same name-think it is the same
stuff.  And surprisingly expensive for what is basically a decal.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations


Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> Dear All;
>         Was surfing the internet this am and came across an outfit that
> advertises turning ordinary glass into stained glass but better because it
> is all one piece.... does anyone know what they are talking about????

<<<snip>>>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 21:45:13 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: contracts
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:41:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.19416.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970116183314.2ca733a4@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
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Thanks for posting the "Contract" example again-lost a lot of data when
my hard disk crashed.  The crash was caused by the Windows Internet
Explorer, in the attempted to remove it after it conscripted all the
comunications software I had set up.  I had to reformat the Hard Disk to
get rid of it-So any one who wants to run that program better not have
anything else they want to keep.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 21:57:16 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:56:50 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.195650.0>
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<< ARTCRAFT in Ohio has them.. the smaller ones say 2" round are 
 under $5.  If interested will send you their 800 number. > 

Please post the phone number.  I think quite a few people are interested, I
among them.  Thanks.  Barbara



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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 22:09:02 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pace-makers and Soldering Irons
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 01:08:35 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.20835.0>
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<< pulsing electronics of the soldering irons would interferre with her new
 pacemaker.  >>

This makes no sense to me - although I'm not an electrician - I can't see
that this would be any worse than being in a room with a light dimmer.  Was
it the reostat she was referring to ?  Microwaves cause problems with pace
makers and clearly there are none of those in a soldering iron.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 22:13:09 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder!
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 01:12:44 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.201244.0>
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<< > I'd like some input on two different grinders. >>


One other thing, Susie -  since you are going to take a class or at least
visit a studio, try out all those with which you come in contact.  I saved a
bundle by trying out a band saw I was ready to buy.  I hated the feel of it
and yet the particular brand I refer to is a best seller.  If it doesn't work
for you, it's not worth any money.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 22:16:57 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 01:16:17 -0500 (EST)
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In a message dated 97-02-11 15:44:57 EST, you write:

<< hot' colours available as they are mostly selenium based >>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 22:17:56 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 01:17:25 -0500 (EST)
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<< hot' colours available as they are mostly selenium based >>
I just recently heard that selenium based colors like the yellows have been
banned.  Don't know when this happened.  Purportedly it was for health
reasons.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 22:53:44 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Commision Agreement 
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:12:15 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.161215.0>
References: <<199702111455.IAA28468@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
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Bunginians?  "Welp", is that like stainglassese for "fellow craft 
people"?
Hi Len, Thanks for posting the commission agreement again.  It's very 
useful and I missed it the last time around.  T. in Montana


len alcamo wrote:
> 
> Hi Bunginians,
> 
> This is the agreement that I use and had posted previously. I'll make no
> claims that it is the DIFINITIVE contract by any means, but it addresses the
> areas that have been prone to misunderstanding in my experience.  I only
> started using a contract after getting burned a few times sorry to say. :-(
> 
> Len
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 23:05:44 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pace-makers and Soldering Irons
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:24:27 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.162427.0>
References: <<199702120059.AAA31657@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Hi Elisabeth,
	Not to worry.  You just bring your worrisome self over here and 
leave all that fretting to us "settlers."  You know you're more than 
welcome to stay with us if you get as far as Montana.  Just imagine, you 
could sit on our deck (if the wind is out of the north which causes the 
fragrance of the cow pasture to go the other way), gaze at the 
alpine-like peaks surrounding this gorgeous valley and throw every care 
to Rocky Mountain gods.  This area is relatively young in history, but 
we sure have the scenery.  And then there's Glacier Park and Yellowstone 
Park nearby, within a half-day's drive through more beautiful country.  
Give it a thought?  Chill out.  A spade is a shovel.  T. in Montana

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Al,,
> Did I or did I not mention something about a "new can of worms"....
> Pheww!
> In UK, people are a bit more "philosophical" about the odd stream of
> blood pouring down tools and glass in a teaching situation. If you
> work with glass, you just have to expect to  get the odd "cut" or
> two.
> But the implications of all of this;   heart failures, AIDS and God
> knows what else are quite daunting.
> I myself am a qualified Red Cross First Aider. I keep my training
> up-to-date periodically. I am not legally required so to do  under
> UK law (it's just something I feel strongly about) . I also make it a
> "Selling Point" in my courses.
> But I am after all a "sub-contractor" at the Colleges where I teach.
> We are now getting into realms, where I feel a bit in "deep water"...
> What should I do, what should I NOT do ????
> a confused & worried Elisabeth
> Before this goes out out of hand
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 23:09:21 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Duck... duck... grinder! ... and Thanks
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:28:04 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.16284.0>
References: <<199702120059.AAA31663@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Elisabeth -- You've missed your calling.  What a riot!  Could you 
possibly do that for money?  Nah, I guess it's only funny to those of us 
who read your mail every day.  Or -- -- maybe not.  T. in Montana

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Susie, (and all)
> I only have one grinder, but that one I have been using for more than
> 15 years. It doesn't sing, dance or even make the tea. It does
> exactly what it's supposed to do. It grinds.
> It does so wel & efficiently. Now and then it gets a clean-up and a
> pat and another drink of water.
> It's the Wizard.
> I would love to do some bevel work, but readymade bevels over here
> are limited in choice and expensive. Should I get a grinder that
> would do my bevelling for me?  For the moment I have decided - no -,
> I'll stick with my Old Faithful, as I also want to spend money on
> getting a (decent) colour printer and my "98 Trip to USA".
> So for what my recommendations are worth,  you can't go wrong with
> the Wizard.  It's a good all-round grinder, reliable and
> uncomplicated. Ideally... your cutting should - with time - improve
> so much that you only need to  SMOOTH the glass down, rather than
> having to trim and adjust.... all of that takes time. I am still
> learning.....
> By the way, to all you fabulous guys out there!: I have had to open
> yet another "file" to cope with the mail I am getting about a
> flippant, tongue-in-cheek initial throw-away pie-in-the-sky fantasy
> of Elisabeth coming to USA... I just can't believe you guys actually
> want to MEET me!!! (Never mind give me a sack to sleep on for the
> night!!!) I will reply to each and everyone of you. It'll
> take a little while (another TAX-Quarter is looming over me, and in
> about a week - I will go awfully quiet, trying to make figures add up
> to meet the dead-line...). I have got a number of ideas how to
> finance the journey, how to finance my sejourn, that I didn't even
> know existed before. I will reply to every SINGLE one of them, little
> by little.
>  And for each and every one of you , there is - of course - a very open
> Swedish home in UK to come to. My friends over here are now  getting
> involved on the side-lines of  the first "bunch" coming over in a few
> weeks time.  (Oh! The Americans will LOVE your cottage, they all
> say.)
> It's not grand, it's old, it's a bit chaotic, but it's home to me and
>  a respite and a bolt-hole to many others and a "base" for my friends
> from all corners of the World when they come to stay. 6 weeks of
> 3 muslim, foot-ball crazy Turks and their German Mother/wife was
> about the most extreme visit. The Muslims found it difficult to cope
> with Toby (and he with them), the contrast of cooking and diets
> easily over-come, the 2 boys were successfully prevented from killing
> each other (which they have been trying for the last 10 years
> anyway); and all-in-all, it turned out to be a rich, rewarding and
> enjoyable visit ( Toby got recompensed afterwards...) So any of you
> "lot" will be a piece of cake.... (Just do the washing-up!)
> You have ALL really got me going on this idea of coming over!!
> 
> There is another idea that lurks in peoples' minds, that of
> "house-exchanges" on an international level. It's much more popular
> in the rest of Europe than it is here in UK. What about you folks in
> USA? Does it exist? Does it work? Might it be something we Stained
> Glass People could adopt to our own circumstances?
> Picture this:
> (Good Eevening Madam! I am terribly sorry, but Mr. Mike Savad is
> currently on a Lecture Visit in the United Kingdom. I am terribly
> sorry, but he will be heavily engaged in Engalnd for at least another
> 4 weeks.... Then he is due to to make guest lectures in Germany.
> You would like to
> order a similar lamp to the Poseidon Lamp? But certainly Madam! Mr.
> Savad's lamps are greatly admired all over the World and much sought
> after. A deposit of USD.6,000 should secure you a first refusal of
> his next lamp in about 8 months time. Cradit Card? Certainly Madam! I
> will confirm your deposit in writing to you tomorrow morning....
> Thank you so mch for your interest in Mr. Savad's work..... Oh Thank
> you.... And a very pleasant week-end to you too)
> ........    :-)                     (sigh)
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
>
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 11 23:14:13 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vuYt0-0001L9a; Tue, 11 Feb 97 23:13 PST
X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pace-makers and Soldering Irons
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 01:44:47 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb12.94447.0>
References: <<1997Feb11.14544.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Although I don't have a pace maker I do have some serious medical
problems and I've never heard that one. I believe I'd have to call a hot
line and ask a doctor or nurse.



On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:54:04 +0000 Mike  Peck
<summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
>Hi All,
>
>Just ran across a curious problem last night so thought I'd take some 
>time
>to post a question to see if others had heard of this.
>
>About 3 weeks ago I started a new group of beginners, and one lady 
>showed up
>the first night, paid for the class in full, then never came to 
>another
>class.  I called her last night (hoping it wasn't something I said!) 
>and
>learned that she had gone into the hospital to have a pacemaker 
>implanted
>and was at home recovering from the surgery.  I offered to hold a spot 
>for
>her in the next upcoming class or to give her a full refund and she 
>replied
>that her doctor had advised that she stay away from the class because 
>the
>pulsing electronics of the soldering irons would interferre with her 
>new
>pacemaker.
>
>Anyone ever heard of this?????  It sure took me by surprise.  
>Appreciate any
>comments.
>
>
>
>Mike Peck
>Summit Stained Glass
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 04:29:00 1997
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:27:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb12.2276.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi all!  After looking into this a bit further, I need to solicit some 
additional help.  Does anyone have access to Adobe Pagemaker 6.5 or 
Adobe Photoshop, or Acrobat Distiller to convert the jpeg files into pdf 
files?  Dave Rand says those are the best way to be able to print out 
accurately and I don't have the $850.00 investment it would take to buy 
those programs.  (Not that I would even consider it anyway!)  Please 
email me if you can contribute your time talent and software!  And 
please get those patterns coming....I'm really excited about what we 
have started and have yet to see the first pattern!  I've decided not to 
be so secretive about my business address, so if you have paper copies 
please send them to:

	Garden of Glass
	501 N. Madriver St.
	Bellefontaine, OH  43311

Thanks!

Joyce Moran
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 04:56:11 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Commision Agreement 
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 06:51:21 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116192856.13c7dd24@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Len;
        so it was yours!  Thanks.  It is the one I had saved, but couldn't
remember whose it was.  I changed a few things to fit the way I work and the
customers I have, but basically it was great!!  Thankyou again.  Meg


At 08:55 AM 2/11/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi Bunginians, 
>
>This is the agreement that I use and had posted previously. I'll make no
>claims that it is the DIFINITIVE contract by any means, but it addresses the
>areas that have been prone to misunderstanding in my experience.  I only
>started using a contract after getting burned a few times sorry to say. :-(
>
>Len
>
>
>
>              COMMISSION AGREEMENT
>
>
>CRAFTSMAN__________________
>
>
>CLIENT_________________________
>
>
>
>THIS COMMISSION INCLUDES THE DESIGN, FABRICATION AND INSTALLATION OF THE WORK
>
>
>DESIGN________ The craftsman will submit a design and samples of the
>proposed materials. It is understood that the owner has seen examples of the
>craftsmans previous work, has discussed with him the general requirements,
>mood, content and architecture and is willing to place faith in the
>craftsmans ability to make an acceptable design.
>
>Minor revisions of the submitted design that have been mutually agreed upon
>are covered by the design fee. Requests of substantial revisions that would
>alter the concept or the spirit of the design are subject to negotiation of
>an additional fee.
>
>
>FEE__________ Total fee for the work is to be____________
>
>
>
>PAYMENTS____________ First payment of____________is a design fee and is
>payable immediately upon signing of this agreement by both parties and is
>nonrefundable regardless whether or not the design is accepted. Second
>payment of_________is payable upon completion of the working cartoon. Final
>payment of________is payable on the day of the completion of the
>installation of the work.
>
>
>The craftsman will be responsible for the installation of the work. The
>owner will provide the placement of the structural elements necessary for
>the installation of the work.
>
>WARRANTY_______ the craftsman warranties the work for________ years against
>defects in workmanship and materials
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 05:06:25 1997
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X-Path: newpig3.newpig.com!karenro
From: karenro <karenro@newpig3.newpig.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:00:36 -0500
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=New_Pig_Corporat%l=NEWPIG9-970212130036Z-94615@newpig9.newpig.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Hi all, back at ya! I have Adobe illustrator 6.0, Photoshop 4.0,
 Quarkexpress. I would be happy to help. I am full time production 
artist working in photoshop daily, and a freelance graphic artist. 
I have a color flat bed  scanner and access to a drum scanner. 
I can scan upto 8.5x11 or transparencies. If I can help let me know.

Karen Roberts
Altoona, PA

E-Mail karenro@newpig.com
>
>
>Hi all!  After looking into this a bit further, I need to solicit some 
>additional help.  Does anyone have access to Adobe Pagemaker 6.5 or 
>Adobe Photoshop, or Acrobat Distiller to convert the jpeg files into
>pdf 
>files?  Dave Rand says those are the best way to be able to print out 
>accurately and I don't have the $850.00 investment it would take to buy
>
>those programs.  (Not that I would even consider it anyway!)  Please 
>email me if you can contribute your time talent and software!  And 
>please get those patterns coming....I'm really excited about what we 
>have started and have yet to see the first pattern!  I've decided not
>to 
>be so secretive about my business address, so if you have paper copies 
>please send them to:
>
>	Garden of Glass
>	501 N. Madriver St.
>	Bellefontaine, OH  43311
>
>Thanks!
>
>Joyce Moran
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 05:19:31 1997
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X-Path: cenebank.nl!mstreng
From: Martin Streng <mstreng@cenebank.nl>
To: toby@northlights.co.uk, fm_sloothaak@nl.ibm.com, gfaber@ibm.net,
Subject: Adreswijziging
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:11:32 +0100
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970212131132.0069190c@solair1.inter.nl.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Please note my email-address has changed to mstreng@cenebank.nl

Martin Streng

----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 05:59:05 1997
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From: pmpalm@ix.netcom.com (Peggy Palm)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: pacemakers, blood exposure 
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:58:34 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702121358.HAA04827@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

For more information than you ever thought you'd want about pacemakers, 
try  http://www.medtronic.com/public/technical/faq/.  Medtronics is a 
major maker of medical devices.  I no longer work in cardiology, but I 
am a nurse and can make a couple of suggestions.  

First, technology changes as we speak, and most implanted devices 
(pacers, defibrillators, etc.) are created with more effective 
shielding with each generation of the product. Digital phones can 
certainly cause problems, but it seems unlikely to me that the 
run-of-the-mill soldering iron and rheostat would create much havoc 
with current pacer models.   If I had one, I would find out the model 
number and call the company to check it out.  Doctors aren't any more 
infallible than the rest of humanity.  :-)

Secondly, is it possible that the lady in question decided that 
glasswork is not for her, and preferred to blame it on a medical 
condition to avoid possibly hurting your feelings? 

[Elizabeth, I know what you mean about PC language.  My "clients" at 
the moment are premature babies - quite a concept!]

Finally, regarding HIV, hepatitis, and other diseases spread by body 
fluid contact: It isn't worth arguing with anyone who feels that 
nervous.  She could do what I do at work: keep open skin areas (cuts, 
scrapes, etc.) bandaged and wear gloves.  Household bleach can also be 
used to wipe up any blood spots (alcohol isn't effective for this) or 
you could invest in a bottle of one of the cleaning solutions used by 
hospitals for this purpose.  A medical supply store would be likely to 
stock them.  Students in group situations can then wipe items prior to 
use as necessary.  (IMHO, you run a truly miniscule risk of exposure, 
but perhaps I'm willing to take chances unacceptable to others.)

If this appeared as a single sentence to any of you, my apologies.  I 
believe the previous problem was related to the Pegasus mail program I 
was using at the time.  I hope it's fixed!   

May your breaks be lucky ones...   Peggy
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 06:12:35 1997
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X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz
From: llutz <llutz@tpgi.com.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:11:04 +1100
Message-ID: <1997Feb13.12114.0>
References: <<1997Feb12.2276.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

glasschic wrote:
> 
> Hi all!  After looking into this a bit further, I need to solicit some
> additional help.  Does anyone have access to Adobe Pagemaker 6.5 or
> Adobe Photoshop, or Acrobat Distiller to convert the jpeg files into pdf
I am not very happy with pdf files- I have the Adobe acrobat reader as a
helper on Netscape- my wife came upon a site last night (machine
knitting) and wanted to print it out. 25 pages in pdf format. It took
forever to prepare for printing- unlike some other formats- it had to
prepare all 25 pages before it sent anything to the inkjet. Other
formats generally start printing to an inkjet right away. And then the
unthinkable happened- the printer jammed on the second page. She ended
up walking away and forgetting about it. I tried to find a way to save
the page to the hard drive- the only way I found to do it was cut &
paste into a word processor but couldn't get any images. These pages
were from a major company and are instructions for their machines. It's
not very practical to put the computer next to the machine and stay
online while you try things out. The same can apply to stained glass.

  Dave Rand says those are the best way to be able to print out
> accurately 
I agree with the comments about accuracy & pdf may be good to print
from. I prefer to design my things from scratch and use a drafting board
to be sure. Maybe use the pdf for hard copy printing and use a
friendlier format for the web.
-- 
Althea & Larry in Oz
mailto:llutz@tpgi.com.au
http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/llutz

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 19:12:58 1997
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From: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@snet.net>
To: "'glass'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject:  Patterns
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:26:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb11.42643.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC17FD.D361D4A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

  Hi Everybody;

  Can someone tell me where I might find a Pattern of a Pig. I have been =
reading all the postings for the last 6 months, and decided to make =
myself visible. I have been doing Stained Glass for about 2 1/2 years, =
and have learned alot from all of you.
  I have a pattern of the Aids Ribbon, that is my own design, that I am =
willing to share with all of you.

  Thanks in advance,

      Q M Stained Glass Studio
                      Tim
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QAAIMMDUKpUlGLwBHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAIrV

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC17FD.D361D4A0--

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 19:13:33 1997
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	id m0vurZP-0000Jra; Wed, 12 Feb 97 19:10 PST
X-Path: mindspring.com!marissam
From: Marissa McLaughlin <marissam@mindspring.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: contracts
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:12:44 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970213031244.006802b8@pop.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'm a software engineer at Microsoft who also happens to work with Windows
Internet Explorer everyday and I love it, so I must defend the product.  I
use several other types of communications software and yes, sometimes there
are conflicts that must be worked out upon installation of anything new that
uses the modem but everything should be OK once it's set up right.  I didn't
see your set up so I don't know what got "conscripted" but I'm positive it
was fixable.  Also, you could have removed explorer without reformatting
your hard drive, maybe you didn't fix the registry entries.  Reformatting is
a very drastic measure and is not considered a crash.  

At 12:41 AM 2/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks for posting the "Contract" example again-lost a lot of data when
>my hard disk crashed.  The crash was caused by the Windows Internet
>Explorer, in the attempted to remove it after it conscripted all the
>comunications software I had set up.  I had to reformat the Hard Disk to
>get rid of it-So any one who wants to run that program better not have
>anything else they want to keep.
>
>Lee Boe
>Rain-Boe's Creations
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 20:20:19 1997
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:18:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb12.181825.0>
References: <<1997Feb11.42643.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Tim Byrnes wrote:
> 
> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC17FD.D361D4A0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
>   Hi Everybody;
> 
>   Can someone tell me where I might find a Pattern of a Pig. I have been =
> reading all the postings for the last 6 months, and decided to make =
> myself visible. I have been doing Stained Glass for about 2 1/2 years, =
> and have learned alot from all of you.
>   I have a pattern of the Aids Ribbon, that is my own design, that I am =
> willing to share with all of you.
> 
>   Thanks in advance,


there is a pattern of a flying pig in the book Angels by Donna Schulze.
I was not able to view your pattern of the Aids Ribbon, was it in jpeg 
format and sent as an attachment?  If you can send it to me, I can 
include it in the pattern atlas to be posted on the bungi.com web page. 
 If email doesn't work, then send it to my snail mail address at

Garden of Glass
501 N. Madriver St.
Bellefontaine, OH  43311
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 20:26:36 1997
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X-Path: cei.net!larrye
From: Larry Earnheart <larrye@cei.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:32:48 -0600
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970213043248.0066abb8@mail.cei.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>Can someone tell me where I might find a Pattern of a Pig. 
>I have a pattern of the Aids Ribbon, that is my own design, that I am =
>willing to share with all of you.

      
Just a "lurker" here.  This is really hard to resist Shirley.....but I'm
gonna pass!

(never posted before.......please forgive me folks)

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 21:22:52 1997
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X-Path: televar.com!fishbait
From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:19:13 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb12.131913.0>
References: <<1997Feb11.42643.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Tim Byrnes wrote:
> 
> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC17FD.D361D4A0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
>   Hi Everybody;
> 
>   Can someone tell me where I might find a Pattern of a Pig. I have been =
> reading all the postings for the last 6 months, and decided to make =
> myself visible. I have been doing Stained Glass for about 2 1/2 years, =
> and have learned alot from all of you.
>   I have a pattern of the Aids Ribbon, that is my own design, that I am =
> willing to share with all of you.
> 
>   Thanks in advance,
> 
>       Q M Stained Glass Studio
>                       Tim
> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC17FD.D361D4A0
> Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> 
>
I have located patterns for stained glass pigs in the following books:

Glas Design---Teddy & Company  (Suncatcher)

Caught Up In Country by Randy DeMello (Hog Hugs) Designed for 16 x 20
oval frame---full size pattern.

Country Collectibles by Donna Eller, page 7 pig to display in a 6 inch
wooden base.

Country Roads by Donna Eller (Pig head with kerchief around neck and
checkerboard frame page 11 and pig Switch Plate cover page 30.

Bonnie Clark----fishbait@televar.com
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 12 22:29:31 1997
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X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:30:20 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb12.183020.0>
References: <<1.5.4.32.19970213043248.0066abb8@mail.cei.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

> >Can someone tell me where I might find a Pattern of a Pig.

Larry Earnhart wrote:
> Just a "lurker" here.  This is really hard to resist Shirley.....but I'm
> gonna pass!

Chicken?  But he wanted a pig!  Good to see you out here, Larry. 
More!!!!!

Shirley & the Armadillo
Grapeland, Tx.
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 01:38:30 1997
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From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: fusing
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 03:35:35 -0500
Message-ID: <199702130835.DAA09693@detroit.freenet.org>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


I have a microwave fuser and recently have been trying to fuse dichroic
glass and irridescent glass.  Results with dichroic are not bad but I 
lose the irridescence entirely.

You comments and advice would be appreciated.

Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 02:36:37 1997
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From: Livethakly@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Fwd: Price Comparison
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 05:35:29 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb13.03529.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-02-08 19:07:36 EST, ejl2@enter.net (Maverick) writes:
>If you compare Delphi's and Glass Crafter's prices to
>Warner-Crivellaro's prices you will be astounded at the difference!!!! I may
be partial, >probably because I've been buying from them for years, but no
one else can match >the prices.
<< glass@bungi.com >>
I agree. I've been checking out pricing differences for a while now, and I'm
very partial to Warner Crivellaro. Although, when you get the 25% discount,
that makes Delphi pretty comparable. Oh, BTW- I got my stuff from Whitmore
Durgin and I love all their personal touches. (Personal thank you's and such)
Laura

---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	ejl2@enter.net (Maverick)
Reply-to:	glass@bungi.com
To:	glass@bungi.com
Date: 97-02-08 19:07:36 EST

> SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
>
> I am ordering from ______ for the first time and they offer a 25%
discount on
> the first order (very generous, I think).
> 
If you compare Delphi's and Glass Crafter's prices to
Warner-Crivellaro's prices you will be
astounded at the difference!!!! I may be partial, probably because
I've been buying from them for years, but no one else can match the prices.
Just for instance - if you add up the
prices of the following items (i've ordered most of this stuff in the last
year):
         ITEM            GLASSCRAFTERS           DELPHI         
WARNER-CRIVELLARO
Toyo Pistol Grip            28.95               28.95                22.95
Metal Runners               11.95                9.95                 8.95
Grozer/Breaker               7.95                6.95                 5.95
Temptrol 100 Iron           42.95               44.95                39.95
Pop Top WIZ Grinder         89.95               85.95                56.95*
                                                                 *(with
$100 purchase of other merchandise)
Lead Cutters                10.95                6.95                 5.95
Soldering Iron Stand        10.95                9.95                 6.95
Copper Foil Dispenser       12.95               11.95                 7.95
100 1-5/8" SUCTION CUPS     14.99               15.00                 9.95
Oak Fan Base w/cord         10.95               11.90                 6.95
Intro. to S.G. Book         13.95               13.95                11.16
60/40 solder                 6.95                5.95                 3.50*
                                                                *(with $100
purchase of other merchandise)
7/32" copper foil            3.95                3.25                 3.00
Morton Portable Glass shop  42.95               42.95                31.95
(mixed 3 price)
Morton Maxi Surface         22.95               22.95                17.10 
  "       "
Morton Safety Break System  15.95               15.95                11.66 
  "       "
Night Light Fixture w/Bulb   2.00                2.20                 1.25
                TOTAL --> $350.77             $339.70              $252.07

These are Warner-Crivellaro's everyday prices, lately, I've been getting
monthly
sales flyers with some good deals, especially quantity price breaks. 

Well, in any case, I sound like an advertisement, so I'm going to shut up
now.  I hope that at the very least I saved you a couple of bucks.

Maverick

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 05:29:45 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 07:24:46 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116203359.2c77fc0a@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>To: glass@bungi.com
>From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
>Subject: Re: Patterns
>
>Dear Tim,
>        Just any pig? or do you want side view, front view, with person,
etc???  You could get some ideas from the book, Charlotte's web maybe.. Meg
>
>At 09:26 AM 2/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC17FD.D361D4A0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>>  Hi Everybody;
>>
>>  Can someone tell me where I might find a Pattern of a Pig. I have been =
>>reading all the postings for the last 6 months, and decided to make =
>>myself visible. I have been doing Stained Glass for about 2 1/2 years, =
>>and have learned alot from all of you.
>>  I have a pattern of the Aids Ribbon, that is my own design, that I am =
>>willing to share with all of you.
>>
>>  Thanks in advance,
>>
>>      Q M Stained Glass Studio
>>                      Tim
>>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC17FD.D361D4A0
>>Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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>>QAAIMMDUKpUlGLwBHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAIrV
>>
>>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC17FD.D361D4A0--
>>
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>>
>>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 05:29:45 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Price Comparison
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 07:24:38 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116203357.2c77a6ba@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

....... partial to Warner Crivellaro. Although, when you get the 25% discount,
>that makes Delphi pretty comparable. 

I think that the discount is only for first time customers, not every
catalog, but it isn't very clear.... perhaps Stephanie can clarify?  Meg
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 06:27:03 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: fusing
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:20:20 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb13.42020.0>
References: <<199702130835.DAA09693@detroit.freenet.org>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Sue Becker wrote:
> 
> I have a microwave fuser and recently have been trying to fuse dichroic
> glass and irridescent glass.  Results with dichroic are not bad but I
> lose the irridescence entirely.
> 
> You comments and advice would be appreciated.
> 
> Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

it depends what kind of irr. you were fusin. spectrum's burns right off,
you will need fusing compatable glass, (or the higher end glasses), like
urobors, bullseye, etc.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 08:13:09 1997
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X-Path: wport.com!skid
From: Chris Wilde <skid@wport.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:20:43 -0800
Message-ID: <m0vv3m4-0000SbC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

greetings mortal,

> Hi all,
>  Thank you  Lavergne, for kind comments.   :-)
> Otherwise, totally agree with Mike (Savad), who said:
> QUOTE
> welp i really never planned to stop, the only real ligitimate reason why
> i would ever post privatly, would be, if i had to post my phone number,
> my address, or something way off the topic.
> UNQUOTE
> 
> P.S. Mike, In my "computer nerd's dictionary", have not been able to 
> find what the abbreviation "welp" stands for....? Toby's suggestion 
> doesn't help either, because I tell him he's forgotten the "h"....
> ???
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
-skid
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 08:38:16 1997
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:33:48 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb13.03348.0>
References: <<1997Feb12.183020.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everyone:  About 6-7 years ago I remember seeing a book at a retail
store that cross referenced patterns.  If you wanted a pig, you could go
to the book and it would tell you all of the pattern books in print that
contained patterns of a pig.  Do any of you know anything about such a
book now.  If not, perhaps this is something the group might also want to
consider compiling.  PJ from CA

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 13:11:09 1997
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From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Price Comparison
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:08:52 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702132108.QAA13260@vixa.voyager.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Meg,

>....... partial to Warner Crivellaro. Although, when you get the 25% discount,
>>that makes Delphi pretty comparable. 
>
>I think that the discount is only for first time customers, not every
>catalog, but it isn't very clear.... perhaps Stephanie can clarify?  Meg

The 25% discount coupon is applicable to first time buyers.  For the past
several years, we have also offered this coupon when our annual catalog
comes out in the Fall.  I haven't heard the plan for this Fall, but it will
probably hold true this year, too.

Stephanie 
______________________________________________________________________

                       **  E-mail:  delphigl@voyager.net
Delphi Stained Glass   **  WWW:     http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass
2116 E. Michigan Ave.  **  Voice:   1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada)
Lansing, MI  48912     **           1-517-482-2617 (International)
USA                    **  Fax:     1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada)
                                    1-517-482-4028 (International)
_____________________________________________________________________

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 13:15:55 1997
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From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:13:52 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702132113.QAA15045@vixa.voyager.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All!

>About 6-7 years ago I remember seeing a book at a retail
>store that cross referenced patterns.  If you wanted a pig, you could go
>to the book and it would tell you all of the pattern books in print that
>contained patterns of a pig.  Do any of you know anything about such a
>book now.  If not, perhaps this is something the group might also want to
>consider compiling.

There is a book called "The Directory of Stained Glass Books and Patterns"
which is published by Stained Glass Images.  For many years, these
directories carried patterns both past and present.  Now, there is a new one
just about every year which contains recent pattern releases.

There is a pig pattern on Spectrum's site at
http://www.spectrumglass.com/Patterns6.html.

Take care,
Stephanie
______________________________________________________________________

                       **  E-mail:  delphigl@voyager.net
Delphi Stained Glass   **  WWW:     http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass
2116 E. Michigan Ave.  **  Voice:   1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada)
Lansing, MI  48912     **           1-517-482-2617 (International)
USA                    **  Fax:     1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada)
                                    1-517-482-4028 (International)
_____________________________________________________________________

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 13:59:37 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "fake" stained glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 22:16:49 +0000
Message-ID: <199702132159.VAA28528@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Meg (and all),
I wonder if this is one of these rare occasions where a UK franchise 
idea  gets exported to USA, rather than the other way round. About 
8-9 years ago a con-merchant  in UK was busy selling franchises for 
turning  boring 60's windows in pretty suburbia into instant leaded 
lights using adhesive lead. The Franchisees stuck on templates on the 
inside of the windows and then clambered up and down ladders on the 
outside with rolls of this stuff to make it stick on to the outside 
glass. The idea was developed further to include plastic, (very!) 
sticky coloured "over-lay" sheets for applying to the (inside) glass 
before the lead was applied. I was briefly involved with this 
business now a number of years ago. The Franchisor, declared bankruptcy, 
did a "runner" and took his rolls-royce with him. Would be very 
interesting to find out the name of the character who runs this 
out-fit.... About 45 people here in UK are eagerly waiting to wring 
his neck for having swindled them out of their life-savings......
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Meg wrote:
Dear All;
        Was surfing the internet this am and came across an outfit that
advertises turning ordinary glass into stained glass but better because it
is all one piece.... does anyone know what they are talking about????  the
address is http://www.sgoinc.com/  poor customers are having their brains
washed every which away.  They are selling franchises in the usa and
internationally... Costa Rica is even on their international list (with a
bad phone #)! 

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 16:01:55 1997
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From: April Paine <vgplugs@primeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Price Comparison
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 19:07:03 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.373.0>
References: <<199702132108.QAA13260@vixa.voyager.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Do you have to have a coupon or something??

Meg,

>....... partial to Warner Crivellaro. Although, when you get the 25% discount,
>>that makes Delphi pretty comparable. 
>
>I think that the discount is only for first time customers, not every
>catalog, but it isn't very clear.... perhaps Stephanie can clarify?  Meg

The 25% discount coupon is applicable to first time buyers.  For the past
several years, we have also offered this coupon when our annual catalog
comes out in the Fall.  I haven't heard the plan for this Fall, but it will
probably hold true this year, too.

Stephanie 
______________________________________________________________________

                       **  E-mail:  delphigl@voyager.net
Delphi Stained Glass   **  WWW:     http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass
2116 E. Michigan Ave.  **  Voice:   1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada)
Lansing, MI  48912     **           1-517-482-2617 (International)
USA                    **  Fax:     1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada)
                                    1-517-482-4028 (International)
_____________________________________________________________________

----
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vgplugs@primeline.com
http://members.tripod.com/~VictorianGreenhouse/index.html






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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 16:39:07 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: commissions
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:33:46 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116211616.2bbf6ba4@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All;
        Thought you might enjoy my two most recent commissions....both bit
off-beat, the first for a house someone is remodeling, it will be on an
inside wall, with a skylight behind it and artificial light for night
(advice wellcome on this.  The other for a new house.  The first is for a
tropical depiction of Noahs Ark with the animals disembarking....  She also
wants 2 to 4 (varies daily) 1/2 moon abstract wavy designs in her bedrooms
and bathroom.  
         The other is for a woman who is a pig fanatic... she is having
tiles inlaid somewhere in her new house with Pigs Forever spelled out (long
story behind this) anyway she wants a wide front door sidelight with a sky
scape with our view of the gulf and lowlands with tropical vegetation on the
bottom with a pig peaking out.  Then a few yards over in her kitchen window,
a sort of continuation of the sky-gulf motiff with a pegasus pig flying by
:)  Who knows I may get to try mosiac on a wall with pigs... she hasn't
decided yet...  Let you know how this one developes!!!   Meg
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 17:32:03 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commissions
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:22:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb13.152256.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970116211616.2bbf6ba4@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> Hi All;
>         Thought you might enjoy my two most recent commissions....both bit
> off-beat, the first for a house someone is remodeling, it will be on an
> inside wall, with a skylight behind it and artificial light for night
> (advice wellcome on this.  The other for a new house.  The first is for a
> tropical depiction of Noahs Ark with the animals disembarking....  She also
> wants 2 to 4 (varies daily) 1/2 moon abstract wavy designs in her bedrooms
> and bathroom.
>          The other is for a woman who is a pig fanatic... 

talk her into the Worden Pig lamp...wonder how many of those sell!!!!
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 19:56:17 1997
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@sagelink.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:25:29 -0600
Message-ID: <199702140346.VAA15407@sage.sagelink.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Joyce,
	I have access to all the the software. I seem to be missing something
though. What is it you are trying to do? I teach desktop publishing and can
scan cartoons and put them out in any format. 

Please advise.

Pat

----------
> From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Glass Atlas
> Date: Wednesday, February 12, 1997 6:27 AM
> 
> Hi all!  After looking into this a bit further, I need to solicit some 
> additional help.  Does anyone have access to Adobe Pagemaker 6.5 or 
> Adobe Photoshop, or Acrobat Distiller to convert the jpeg files into pdf 
> files?  Dave Rand says those are the best way to be able to print out 
> accurately and I don't have the $850.00 investment it would take to buy 
> those programs.  (Not that I would even consider it anyway!)  Please 
> email me if you can contribute your time talent and software!  And 
> please get those patterns coming....I'm really excited about what we 
> have started and have yet to see the first pattern!  I've decided not to 
> be so secretive about my business address, so if you have paper copies 
> please send them to:
> 
> 	Garden of Glass
> 	501 N. Madriver St.
> 	Bellefontaine, OH  43311
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Joyce Moran
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 20:06:33 1997
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From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Pattern Books
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:40:07 -0500
Message-ID: <199702140248.VAA13044@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi folks,

First of all, I would like to say I have enjoyed the group!  I have picked
up a few pointers, but feel less knowledgeable than most!  But, I will
keep offering what I think is helpful.

I have a nice selection of pattern books that I have accumulated over the
past five years - a Christmas one that is out of print.  If anyone is
looking for a particular pattern, I would be happy to send you a list of
books I have.  

mad

----------
> From: B. J. Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
> Date: Sunday, February 09, 1997 6:23 PM
> 
> Perhaps asking Stephanie at Delphi might be helpful.  I bought the
program
> through Delphi and needed to contact MicroGlass.  Stephanie facilitated
the
> contact for me.  If the address has changed, she may know the new one.
>                  Stephanie, are you listening?
> 
> At 04:54 PM 2/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
> >
> >> > > I haven't seen a web site however, the e-mail address for them
is:	
> >> MicroGlass@aol.com
> >
> >
> >I tried that address.  No joy.  Unknown at aol.com
> >
> >albert
> >
> >Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> >International Guild of Glass Artists
> >A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> Barbara J. Snell
> Dept. of Campus Life
> Cornell University
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 20:06:33 1997
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From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: "fake" stained glass
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:34:17 -0500
Message-ID: <199702140243.VAA12112@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I had a commission to make a Victorian window for a couples powder room
that faced the front of the house.  My father had a heart attack about two
months into the project.  They threatened to use the fake stuff.  I
offered to buy it for them.

the *shopping* networks still sell the stuff.  My biggest pleasure is when
I complete a project and see the beauty of a finished product I created. 
Can get that same feeling from rubberized glass!

mad

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 20:14:41 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: commissions
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:22:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb13.152256.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970116211616.2bbf6ba4@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> Hi All;
>         Thought you might enjoy my two most recent commissions....both bit
> off-beat, the first for a house someone is remodeling, it will be on an
> inside wall, with a skylight behind it and artificial light for night
> (advice wellcome on this.  The other for a new house.  The first is for a
> tropical depiction of Noahs Ark with the animals disembarking....  She also
> wants 2 to 4 (varies daily) 1/2 moon abstract wavy designs in her bedrooms
> and bathroom.
>          The other is for a woman who is a pig fanatic... 

talk her into the Worden Pig lamp...wonder how many of those sell!!!!
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 22:28:21 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:26:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb13.202627.0>
References: <<199702140346.VAA15407@sage.sagelink.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Pat Kelly wrote:
> 
> Joyce,
>         I have access to all the the software. I seem to be missing something
> though. What is it you are trying to do? I teach desktop publishing and can
> scan cartoons and put them out in any format.
> 
> Please advise.This was the suggestion from Dave Rand when I asked what was necessary:

"I suggest that they be made available in a GIF format, scaled 
appropriately
for previewing, then in Postscript, or (preferably) PDF format as the
clickable link.  A JPEG file of the finished product in colour would be
great."

I've never downloaded anything from the PDF format, so I was 
considerably confused when this was mentioned....and wondered exactly 
why it's necessary.  But to my knowledge, the accuracy of printing is 
much better when using these types of files.  (Personally, I never trust 
printouts anyway, because I don't have a plotter, and always have to 
paste together several sheets to get my final design, and have to square 
things up by hand in the end anyway.)  But in order to do things by the 
book, I have requested this information.  Maybe we should take a vote as 
to whether this step is necessary or not.  What have been people's 
experiences with this type of file?  It's my understanding that everyone 
would have to download a "reader" type program in order to be able to  
print these out.

Can we informally discuss this a bit, then give me some hard votes about 
whether this is the way to go or not?

Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 13 23:04:58 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 02:03:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb13.2131.0>
References: <<199702132113.QAA15045@vixa.voyager.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Delphi Stained Glass wrote:
 
> There is a pig pattern on Spectrum's site at
> http://www.spectrumglass.com/Patterns6.html


I went to this site and was amazed at the patterns...saw that they were 
in pdf format and thought I would try them out.  Had already downloaded 
Acrobat reader, and the first two printed out really clear and really 
fast.  Then I downloaded "diaphanous.pdf" and tried to print it out and 
got nothing but a black page.  Is it me or them?  Anyone else have this 
problem?

Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 05:03:08 1997
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X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:02:20 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <9702141302.AA17870@crosfield.co.uk>
References: <<1997Feb13.202627.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Looks like it's time for a quick review on data formats:

there are two main types: raster and scalable.

raster images treat a picture as a chessboard of squares, and tell you
what colour each square is; various formats have different limitations
and features - for example, gif images are limited to a maximum of 256
different colours, while jpeg images can handle 16 million colours, can
be smaller than gifs, but use "lossy" compression - so the result may
not be exactly the same as the original.

The problem with raster images lies in their chessboard nature - they
have a fixed number of squares (aka "pixels", short for PICture ELementS).
This means that when you enlarge the picture, you don't get any more
details - enlarge it enough, and it will look extremely blocky.

The other type of data formats are scalable ones - either specific to a
particular drawing program, such as corel draw, or more portable output
formats like PostScript and PDF. Although these *can* include raster
images, they can also draw things in a scalable format - such as
"draw a line this thick from here to here" or "draw a circle this wide";
the advantage of this is that the scalable bits can be drawn at full
device resolution - enlarge the drawing, and the lines stay smooth instead
of getting blocky. The downside is that you need the appropriate software
to understand the data format - for Corel Draw, a copy of the program,
for PostScript, either a postScript printer or software to display/print
postScript, for PDF the readers (which can also print) are free, but the
software to produce PDF files is commercial.

to summarise:

raster: screen images reasonable sized but look blocky when enlarged;
 printer resolution files may well be too big for most people to handle.

scalable: produces best results when printed but requires appropriate
software.


For the best online results, I'd second the idea of having several
versions: A low resolution gif or jpeg of the pattern that people can
view on screen to see what the pattern looks like, a jpeg of a picture
of the end result, and a PDF high-res file for printing the pattern
produced by feeding a high res scan of the pattern through a raster to
vector tracing program (not just PDFing the raster image direct),
or a PDF file produced from postScript output direct from a scalable
drawing program - and maybe the native file from the drawing program,
if one was used. 


-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 05:03:09 1997
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From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:01:10 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702141301.IAA07257@vixa.voyager.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BJ and all,

>Perhaps asking Stephanie at Delphi might be helpful.  I bought the program
>through Delphi and needed to contact MicroGlass.  Stephanie facilitated the
>contact for me.  If the address has changed, she may know the new one.
>                 Stephanie, are you listening?

Just turned up my hearing aid <g>.  Microglass used to have an email address
with aol, but back in December they changed providers.  Their current addy
is microglass@juno.com

If anyone has been having problems installing Glass Magic 3.0, it can
possible be because the software is hardcoded to install to C:, which is
making the assumption that everyone's harddrive is this.  If you are using
another designation as your harddrive (like D:), I would recommend holding
off on purchasing this software at this time.  We have suggested that there
is more flexibility on their next version, which is due???????

Stephanie
______________________________________________________________________

                       **  E-mail:  delphigl@voyager.net
Delphi Stained Glass   **  WWW:     http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass
2116 E. Michigan Ave.  **  Voice:   1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada)
Lansing, MI  48912     **           1-517-482-2617 (International)
USA                    **  Fax:     1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada)
                                    1-517-482-4028 (International)
_____________________________________________________________________

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 05:14:16 1997
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X-Path: thezone.net!aaa654
From: ROBERT CRANE <aaa654@thezone.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: bevelled glass
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:51:17 -0330
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.6317.0>
References: <<199702132108.QAA13260@vixa.voyager.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi:
 I have a beveled glass window with several pieces broken. Is there 
someone out there who might supply me with the pieces . I can fax you 
the pattern and you can give me a quote. Thanks in anticipation

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 05:21:13 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: fusing
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 05:50:50 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.05050.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

<<trying to fuse dichroic glass and irridescent glass.>>
Mike's right about the irridescents.  With dichro, you can expect a color
shift when fusing of about 20% (whatever that means to you).  In other words,
once you heat it, the color will change slightly.  And of course if you use
the black dichro you automatically give up the transmitted color.  If you're
fusing it to something other than clear you'll probably see more severe color
changes.  Is this what you wanted to know?  Barbara
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 06:23:04 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: bevelled glass
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:22:41 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.142241.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



I have used Boulder Stained Glass Studio with much success.  They charge
about $0.95 per linear inch to custom bevel new pieces for you.  

        The Boulder Stained Glass Studio
        1920 Arapahoe Avenue
        Boulder, CO  80302
        303-449-9030

Good Luck,

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass


At 01:21 PM 2/14/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi:
> I have a beveled glass window with several pieces broken. Is there 
>someone out there who might supply me with the pieces . I can fax you 
>the pattern and you can give me a quote. Thanks in anticipation
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 07:16:41 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Pacemakers and SG -- Closure
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:16:05 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.15165.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

Just a quick note to say thanks for the replies to my question regarding the
pacemakers and soldering iron issue.  

To answer a few of the questions that popped up ...... the student said that
the doctor had advised her to stay away from the irons because they had
electronic pulses that may emit emf's.  I didn't believe this when I heard
it and was comforted to hear that no one on bungi could confirm it either.
BTW - we provide two types of irons to our students, the Hakko 60W are all
on rheostats and Weller 100W which plug directly into the wall.  Maybe the
rheostats emit some low level emf's .... I don't know.  But, as Peggy Palm
pointed out, each generation of pacemaker that are produced has to have
upgraded protective shielding as we continue to bring more electronic
"creature comforts" into our lives.  Surely, the emf's from a simple
rheostat were addressed by the pacemaker shielding technology several
generations ago. It should not be a problem now.

Also, thanks to Albert for mentioning the potential for blood born disease
transmission from bloody tools.  My first lecture to students contains a
safety portion to tell them to tend to cuts immediately, and when cuts do
happen, we pull the tools away from the student in question and wipe them
down with bleach before returning them to the table.  One of my artists is
also a registered nurse and he advised this procedure several years ago when
we started giving classes.  To be honest, I was only trying to insure the
welfare of our students by encouraging this "tool cleaning policy" following
a cut.  I hadn't thought of any legal risk!  Maybe we need to write it up as
an official SOP (standardized operating procedure) like the big
corporations, to document the the actual direction of wiping the bleach on
the tool, how hard do we wipe the bloody tool?,  how do we dispose of the
bloody swab, how do we confirm that the tool is clean?, do we send it out to
a lab for testing?, maybe the same lab that did the DNA testing in the OJ
Simpson case could check the tool for traces of ............ hey wait a
minute ..... is this going to cost me anything?  Sorry, just having a little
fun........

Seriously, thanks to everyone for helping dispell any potential problems to
pacemakers from soldering irons.  I really appreciate your time to respond.





Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 08:16:20 1997
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Delphi Stained Glass <delphigl@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:12:09 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.0129.0>
References: <<199702132113.QAA15045@vixa.voyager.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Stephanie.  Do you have the name of the directory or an address where
we can contact them?  Peggy.

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 08:25:53 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!WLester380
From: WLester380@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:25:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.62517.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I recently purchased "Glass Eye" software and have dabbled with it a bit.  So
far I've found it to be quite flexible.
Bill
PS Happy Valentines Day
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 08:39:27 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pacemakers and SG -- Closure
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:35:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.53512.0>
References: <<1997Feb14.15165.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike Peck wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Just a quick note to say thanks for the replies to my question regarding the
> pacemakers and soldering iron issue.
> 
> To answer a few of the questions that popped up ...... the student said that
> the doctor had advised her to stay away from the irons because they had
> electronic pulses that may emit emf's.  I didn't believe this when I heard
> it and was comforted to hear that no one on bungi could confirm it either.
> BTW - we provide two types of irons to our students, the Hakko 60W are all
> on rheostats and Weller 100W which plug directly into the wall.  Maybe the
> rheostats emit some low level emf's .... I don't know.  But, as Peggy Palm
> pointed out, each generation of pacemaker that are produced has to have
> upgraded protective shielding as we continue to bring more electronic
> "creature comforts" into our lives.  Surely, the emf's from a simple
> rheostat were addressed by the pacemaker shielding technology several
> generations ago. It should not be a problem now.
> 
> Also, thanks to Albert for mentioning the potential for blood born disease
> transmission from bloody tools.  My first lecture to students contains a
> safety portion to tell them to tend to cuts immediately, and when cuts do
> happen, we pull the tools away from the student in question and wipe them
> down with bleach before returning them to the table.  One of my artists is
> also a registered nurse and he advised this procedure several years ago when
> we started giving classes.  To be honest, I was only trying to insure the
> welfare of our students by encouraging this "tool cleaning policy" following
> a cut.  I hadn't thought of any legal risk!  Maybe we need to write it up as
> an official SOP (standardized operating procedure) like the big
> corporations, to document the the actual direction of wiping the bleach on
> the tool, how hard do we wipe the bloody tool?,  how do we dispose of the
> bloody swab, how do we confirm that the tool is clean?, do we send it out to
> a lab for testing?, maybe the same lab that did the DNA testing in the OJ
> Simpson case could check the tool for traces of ............ hey wait a
> minute ..... is this going to cost me anything?  Sorry, just having a little
> fun........
> 
> Seriously, thanks to everyone for helping dispell any potential problems to
> pacemakers from soldering irons.  I really appreciate your time to respond.
> 
> Mike Peck
> Summit Stained Glass
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i forget if
it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop beating. or
was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart is
working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence than anything
else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there would
be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and dieing.

---Mike Savad
 
-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 08:59:18 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!ANLGlass
From: ANLGlass@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: ribbons for outside use
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:58:46 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.65846.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I've been trying to find a source for the kind of ribbons used in
Suzanne Cooper's "Simply Outside" projects.  I'd prefer to get ribbon
instead of cutting my own from fabric if I can.  She suggests
nylon ribbon but I can't find anyone who carries it.  Any
suggestions?

Thanks!

Marilyn
A New Light
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 09:14:06 1997
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X-Path: americanbevel.com!ab
From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: bevelled glass
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:17:22 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.11722.0>
References: <<1997Feb14.6317.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

ROBERT CRANE wrote:

American Bevel, Inc. can bevel any custom shape. Give us a fax at
714.440.0159.



> 
> Hi:
>  I have a beveled glass window with several pieces broken. Is there
> someone out there who might supply me with the pieces . I can fax you
> the pattern and you can give me a quote. Thanks in anticipation
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 09:25:27 1997
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X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl
From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:23:21 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702141723.MAA07448@vixa.voyager.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>Hi Stephanie.  Do you have the name of the directory or an address where
>we can contact them?  Peggy.

Well, it's actually called "The Directory of Stained Glass Books and
Patterns" and is published by Stained Glass Images in California.  The most
current one is the "Fifth Edition:  1995".  This isn't normally a product
that we carry, but I *demanded* one, so a few extras were brought in.

Currently this edition is being packaged along with the 4th edition for
1992-94. If you are interested in purchasing it from us it's #6450 for $16.95.

I hope this information is helpful.  Wishing you all an exceptional weekend!

Happy Valentine's Day!
Stephanie
______________________________________________________________________

                       **  E-mail:  delphigl@voyager.net
Delphi Stained Glass   **  WWW:     http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass
2116 E. Michigan Ave.  **  Voice:   1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada)
Lansing, MI  48912     **           1-517-482-2617 (International)
USA                    **  Fax:     1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada)
                                    1-517-482-4028 (International)
_____________________________________________________________________

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 09:28:35 1997
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X-Path: voyager.net!delphigl
From: delphigl@voyager.net (Delphi Stained Glass)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Price Comparison
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:26:33 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702141726.MAA08211@vixa.voyager.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Meg

>Do you have to have a coupon or something??

The coupon is a colored insert in our catalogs.

Stephanie
______________________________________________________________________

                       **  E-mail:  delphigl@voyager.net
Delphi Stained Glass   **  WWW:     http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass
2116 E. Michigan Ave.  **  Voice:   1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada)
Lansing, MI  48912     **           1-517-482-2617 (International)
USA                    **  Fax:     1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada)
                                    1-517-482-4028 (International)
_____________________________________________________________________

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 09:32:08 1997
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Chartres, France, 2 - 5 April, 1997
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:49:12 +0000
Message-ID: <199702141731.RAA21755@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everybody,
 Just to let everybody know that this "pie-in-the-Sky" idea is now 
actually happening and that final arrangements are now under way.
If there are any "late-comers" out there who wish to join us, there 
is still room for you. So speak now (or "forever hold your 
peace".....).

 The deal is that you make your way to UK ( & back). 
There are a fair amount of cheap deals on offer from your side of the 
"Pond". Once you get to UK, it will cost you UK Sterling 150 (+ UK 
Sterling 40 single's supplement) for coach to and from Chartres and 3 
nights accommodation with breakfast in Ibis Hotel, Chartres. The 
Hotel is a 2-star hotel located about 500 yds away from the Cathedral 
itself. Provided you are happy to "slum it", your accommodation in UK 
will be as guests of myself, my friends in the village and/or  Judy 
Robinson (Deputy Principal of the College underwriting this trip and 
who herself is American..). I have already taken on the role of 
"Mother Hen" and will be at Airports, Railway Stations, Bus Stations 
to collect my "chickens" (Watch out for the Swedish Flag!!!!), with 
plenty of  Swedish home-cooking to feed an army (or at least a 
regiment...)

We have just had 2 rather exciting late-comers; a UK couple, both of 
whom stained glass artists: he- lectured in UK and USA. She: written 
books about stained glass and is about to publish another one.
The "mix" between "you and us" will be dynamic and I myself am really 
getting excited about it.

It will be very informal, relaxed and a real "muck-in" couple of 
weeks (I'll do the cooking, you do the dishes....), but I think 
enormous fun and lots of things to learn from each other.
Get here by 28/29th March, and you'll be back in USA by 8-11 (or 
thereabouts) of April.

!!!!      :-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 09:51:51 1997
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X-Path: americanbevel.com!ab
From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Atlas
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:55:19 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.15519.0>
References: <<1997Feb5.05811.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

I would like to comment on the Atlas.

I have been working with CAD programs for the last ten years and have
found that though scanning, exporting, and importing are all different
ways of getting information into a CAD program it is not always the best
answer.

Scanning; When you scan an image, to keep it simple, that image is
scanned as one whole unit. You can increase, decrease, stretch, or size
the image, but these are the only things you can do to the image. I know
this does not sound limiting, but once you see how fast you can design
with a CAD program you will you will not want to be limited.

As with scanning, importing and exporting between programs does just
about the same thing. If the design does not have the working extension
of the CAD program you are using then the image stays as one unit.

Now in most CAD programs this is not a problem. But when you are
designing for Stained Glass there are considerations. Like lead line
thickness. Also, suppose you scan or import a flower; you want to change
a petal on the flower. Will if you scan or import this flower you cannot
change just one element of that flower. If you take the time to draw the
flower in a CAD program you can change this flower anyway you want.
After you have drawn one flower and then changed it and saved it as
another, you start building libraries of drawnings.

In other words clip art is great for other CAD programs, but for Stained
Glass, the work, as always has to be done first. The good part is that
it only has to be done once.

As far as printing; if everyone were to used the same CAD program. Then
all you would have to do is post your drawing on your Email. Then
everyone else would just simply download and away they go.

To make and share patterns is very easy if you have the right tools.

B. Rgds,

American Bevel, Inc.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 10:32:13 1997
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Atlas
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:33:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.83312.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have been reading with much interest most of the posts about what format 
to use for the atlas, is it accurate and all that garb?

Maybe I'm wrong but what differenct does it make? Use a format that is most 
accessible for most folks, Like PDF (you can download Adobe PDF reader free 
for MAC and IBM) or something else. Most of us here including me, and I'm a 
beginner, can tweek any file to come out so it is useful and accurate. 
Heck, I thought the idea of this project was to share our ideas (STAINED 
GLASS) with each other. I don't think we need to be so prickish about 
computer accuracy. Are we letting the medium of computers overshadow the 
medium of stained glass? I am very interested in seeing some of ya'll's 
stuff. Let's get on with it, I'm anxious.

Just my $.02.

Linda Campbell
Suffolk, VA

begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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I]RU[I!J\`4 `"#!@]RU[I!J\`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````'D0`
`
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 14:10:00 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pacemakers and SG -- Closure
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:09:26 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.22926.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i forget if
>it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop beating. or
>was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart is
>working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence than anything
>else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there would
>be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and dieing.
>
>---Mike Savad


Mike,  It's my understanding that she had the pacemaker inserted
(installed?, whatever .... ) after she started the class and, during a
discussion with her doc, mentioned that she was taking a stained glass
course.  The doc, then, advised that she drop out.  I don't think she had
the thing when she started the course.  Sorry, but even my details are
limited, all I know is she dropped out and claimed her doc advised that the
soldering irons could be a problem ..... 


Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 15:58:11 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pacemakers and SG -- Closure
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:51:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.135125.0>
References: <<1997Feb14.22926.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike Peck wrote:
> 
> >though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i forget if
> >it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop beating. or
> >was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart is
> >working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence than anything
> >else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there would
> >be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and dieing.
> >
> >---Mike Savad
> 
> Mike,  It's my understanding that she had the pacemaker inserted
> (installed?, whatever .... ) after she started the class and, during a
> discussion with her doc, mentioned that she was taking a stained glass
> course.  The doc, then, advised that she drop out.  I don't think she had
> the thing when she started the course.  Sorry, but even my details are
> limited, all I know is she dropped out and claimed her doc advised that the
> soldering irons could be a problem .....
> 
> Mike Peck
> Summit Stained Glass
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i gues it's just as well, it's never good for business when someone
drops dead, because they were in your class... :)

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 17:34:46 1997
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From: paul wallace <paul@frognet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 20:05:23 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.4523.0>
References: <<199702101635.IAA25430@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 18:23:21 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:23:24 -0800
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> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 20:23:29 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:23:41 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150423.UAA07966@m2.sprynet.com>
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> 
> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> 
> --
> 
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> 
> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 22:24:08 1997
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	id m0vvdWo-0000mNa; Fri, 14 Feb 97 22:23 PST
X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pacemakers and SG -- Closure
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:41:57 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.154157.0>
References: <<1997Feb14.53512.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hey Mike, in your words, "Welp, HELP!"?
 
> though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i forget if
> it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop beating. or
> was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart is
> working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence than anything
> else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there would
> be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and dieing.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 22:28:32 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: ribbons for outside use
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:46:00 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.15460.0>
References: <<1997Feb14.65846.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hi Marilyn,
	I've seen a material that is locally referred to as nylon 
rip-stop and is used in wind catchers.  I also believe it is used to 
make down-filled jackets and vests.  You might want to try an 
outdoor-type store and see if they have the material.  Also used for 
some tent parts.  However, I have seen a couple wind catchers made from 
the nylon rip-stop and the material is very colorful initially.  The 
colors tend to fade in the sun over a relatively short period of time.  
T. in Montana
ANLGlass@AOL.COM wrote:
> 
> I've been trying to find a source for the kind of ribbons used in
> Suzanne Cooper's "Simply Outside" projects.  I'd prefer to get ribbon
> instead of cutting my own from fabric if I can.  She suggests
> nylon ribbon but I can't find anyone who carries it.  Any
> suggestions?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Marilyn
> A New Light
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 22:38:58 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:57:08 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.15578.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
	I overheard a conversation in my local glass store that there is 
possibly a web-like material available, from maybe Glass Crafters?, that 
can be inserted into foiled seams for reinforcement.  I was also told 
that it compresses well, doesn't show and adds a fair amount of strength 
to a seam.  Anyone ever heard of this product?  If so, where to get it?

	We're having a Chinook and that has helped our mindset this 
week.  Of course, since we are full time accountants, this whole season 
until April 15 will be a blur of paper shuffling and soon we'll not even 
notice the weather outside.

	T. in Montana
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 22:54:19 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:54:26 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150654.WAA04829@m2.sprynet.com>
References: <<1997Feb14.15578.0>>
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-----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------


> 
> Hi all,
> 	I overheard a conversation in my local glass store that there is 
> possibly a web-like material available, from maybe Glass Crafters?, that 
> can be inserted into foiled seams for reinforcement.  I was also told 
> that it compresses well, doesn't show and adds a fair amount of strength 
> to a seam.  Anyone ever heard of this product?  If so, where to get it?
> 
> 	We're having a Chinook and that has helped our mindset this 
> week.  Of course, since we are full time accountants, this whole season 
> until April 15 will be a blur of paper shuffling and soon we'll not even 
> notice the weather outside.
> 
> 	T. in Montana
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 23:11:05 1997
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	id m0vveEG-0000fza; Fri, 14 Feb 97 23:08 PST
X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@sagelink.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:03:59 -0600
Message-ID: <199702150829.CAA28176@sage.sagelink.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I guess my question was very vauge. 

What would be the input (i.e., paper, files, etc.)?
I can output any format (gif, eps, pdf).
Usually sites like Spectrum software have gif files, it doesn't seem to
cause any problems that I'm aware of. 
I do have a plotter, color printers, scanners, etc.
The first thing to keep in mind is the target audience (SG people, not
necessarly computer geeks).
The end product is most important; ease of use, fast download, good output,
etc. 

Is the final output going to be an electronic book, home page, bound paper
book, Loose Leaf type book, photographs?

I'm available as a resource, co-author, whatever.

You can reach me at e-mail, pkelly@sagelink.net

Good Luck
Pat



----------
> From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
> Date: Friday, February 14, 1997 12:26 AM
> 
> Pat Kelly wrote:
> > 
> > Joyce,
> >         I have access to all the the software. I seem to be missing
something
> > though. What is it you are trying to do? I teach desktop publishing and
can
> > scan cartoons and put them out in any format.
> > 
> > Please advise.This was the suggestion from Dave Rand when I asked what
was necessary:
> 
> "I suggest that they be made available in a GIF format, scaled 
> appropriately
> for previewing, then in Postscript, or (preferably) PDF format as the
> clickable link.  A JPEG file of the finished product in colour would be
> great."
> 
> I've never downloaded anything from the PDF format, so I was 
> considerably confused when this was mentioned....and wondered exactly 
> why it's necessary.  But to my knowledge, the accuracy of printing is 
> much better when using these types of files.  (Personally, I never trust 
> printouts anyway, because I don't have a plotter, and always have to 
> paste together several sheets to get my final design, and have to square 
> things up by hand in the end anyway.)  But in order to do things by the 
> book, I have requested this information.  Maybe we should take a vote as 
> to whether this step is necessary or not.  What have been people's 
> experiences with this type of file?  It's my understanding that everyone 
> would have to download a "reader" type program in order to be able to  
> print these out.
> 
> Can we informally discuss this a bit, then give me some hard votes about 
> whether this is the way to go or not?
> 
> Joyce Moran
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 23:23:44 1997
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	id m0vveSy-0000aza; Fri, 14 Feb 97 23:23 PST
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:23:53 -0800
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-----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------


> 
> Mike Peck wrote:
> > 
> > >though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i forget if
> > >it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop beating. or
> > >was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart is
> > >working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence than anything
> > >else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there would
> > >be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and dieing.
> > >
> > >---Mike Savad
> > 
> > Mike,  It's my understanding that she had the pacemaker inserted
> > (installed?, whatever .... ) after she started the class and, during a
> > discussion with her doc, mentioned that she was taking a stained glass
> > course.  The doc, then, advised that she drop out.  I don't think she had
> > the thing when she started the course.  Sorry, but even my details are
> > limited, all I know is she dropped out and claimed her doc advised that the
> > soldering irons could be a problem .....
> > 
> > Mike Peck
> > Summit Stained Glass
> > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
> i gues it's just as well, it's never good for business when someone
> drops dead, because they were in your class... :)
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> -- 
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 23:25:36 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:25:45 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150725.XAA10354@m2.sprynet.com>
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> 
> I guess my question was very vauge. 
> 
> What would be the input (i.e., paper, files, etc.)?
> I can output any format (gif, eps, pdf).
> Usually sites like Spectrum software have gif files, it doesn't seem to
> cause any problems that I'm aware of. 
> I do have a plotter, color printers, scanners, etc.
> The first thing to keep in mind is the target audience (SG people, not
> necessarly computer geeks).
> The end product is most important; ease of use, fast download, good output,
> etc. 
> 
> Is the final output going to be an electronic book, home page, bound paper
> book, Loose Leaf type book, photographs?
> 
> I'm available as a resource, co-author, whatever.
> 
> You can reach me at e-mail, pkelly@sagelink.net
> 
> Good Luck
> Pat
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> > From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
> > Date: Friday, February 14, 1997 12:26 AM
> > 
> > Pat Kelly wrote:
> > > 
> > > Joyce,
> > >         I have access to all the the software. I seem to be missing
> something
> > > though. What is it you are trying to do? I teach desktop publishing and
> can
> > > scan cartoons and put them out in any format.
> > > 
> > > Please advise.This was the suggestion from Dave Rand when I asked what
> was necessary:
> > 
> > "I suggest that they be made available in a GIF format, scaled 
> > appropriately
> > for previewing, then in Postscript, or (preferably) PDF format as the
> > clickable link.  A JPEG file of the finished product in colour would be
> > great."
> > 
> > I've never downloaded anything from the PDF format, so I was 
> > considerably confused when this was mentioned....and wondered exactly 
> > why it's necessary.  But to my knowledge, the accuracy of printing is 
> > much better when using these types of files.  (Personally, I never trust 
> > printouts anyway, because I don't have a plotter, and always have to 
> > paste together several sheets to get my final design, and have to square 
> > things up by hand in the end anyway.)  But in order to do things by the 
> > book, I have requested this information.  Maybe we should take a vote as 
> > to whether this step is necessary or not.  What have been people's 
> > experiences with this type of file?  It's my understanding that everyone 
> > would have to download a "reader" type program in order to be able to  
> > print these out.
> > 
> > Can we informally discuss this a bit, then give me some hard votes about 
> > whether this is the way to go or not?
> > 
> > Joyce Moran
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Fri Feb 14 23:52:52 1997
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To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:52:51 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150752.XAA14528@m2.sprynet.com>
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> 
> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
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> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> 
> --
> 
> Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
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> 
> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > 
> > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 00:02:32 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:02:44 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150802.AAA16194@m2.sprynet.com>
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> 
> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> 
> --
> 
> Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> 
> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > Mike Peck wrote:
> > > 
> > > >though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i forget if
> > > >it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop beating. or
> > > >was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart is
> > > >working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence than anything
> > > >else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there would
> > > >be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and dieing.
> > > >
> > > >---Mike Savad
> > > 
> > > Mike,  It's my understanding that she had the pacemaker inserted
> > > (installed?, whatever .... ) after she started the class and, during a
> > > discussion with her doc, mentioned that she was taking a stained glass
> > > course.  The doc, then, advised that she drop out.  I don't think she had
> > > the thing when she started the course.  Sorry, but even my details are
> > > limited, all I know is she dropped out and claimed her doc advised that the
> > > soldering irons could be a problem .....
> > > 
> > > Mike Peck
> > > Summit Stained Glass
> > > 
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> > 
> > i gues it's just as well, it's never good for business when someone
> > drops dead, because they were in your class... :)
> > 
> > ---Mike Savad
> > 
> > -- 
> > Mike's Stained Glass
> > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> > 
> > New Pages Added:
> > 
> >  - More Tips and Techniques
> >  - How to Fix Mistakes
> >  - The History of My Shop
> >  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 00:06:44 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:06:52 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150806.AAA16840@m2.sprynet.com>
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> 
> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> 
> --
> 
> Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
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> Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> 
> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > 
> > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > > 
> > > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ----
> > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > > 
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 00:22:41 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:22:40 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150822.AAA19252@m2.sprynet.com>
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-----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------


> 
> Hi Marilyn,
> 	I've seen a material that is locally referred to as nylon 
> rip-stop and is used in wind catchers.  I also believe it is used to 
> make down-filled jackets and vests.  You might want to try an 
> outdoor-type store and see if they have the material.  Also used for 
> some tent parts.  However, I have seen a couple wind catchers made from 
> the nylon rip-stop and the material is very colorful initially.  The 
> colors tend to fade in the sun over a relatively short period of time.  
> T. in Montana
> ANLGlass@AOL.COM wrote:
> > 
> > I've been trying to find a source for the kind of ribbons used in
> > Suzanne Cooper's "Simply Outside" projects.  I'd prefer to get ribbon
> > instead of cutting my own from fabric if I can.  She suggests
> > nylon ribbon but I can't find anyone who carries it.  Any
> > suggestions?
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > Marilyn
> > A New Light
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 00:30:15 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:30:26 -0800
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> 
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> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > 
> > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > > 
> > > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > > > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > > > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > 
> > > > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > > > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > > > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > > > 
> > > > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ----
> > > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > > > 
> > > > ----
> > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > > 
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 00:32:43 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:32:52 -0800
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-----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------


> 
> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> 
> --
> 
> Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> 
> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > 
> > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > Mike Peck wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > >though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i forget if
> > > > >it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop beating. or
> > > > >was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart is
> > > > >working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence than anything
> > > > >else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there would
> > > > >be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and dieing.
> > > > >
> > > > >---Mike Savad
> > > > 
> > > > Mike,  It's my understanding that she had the pacemaker inserted
> > > > (installed?, whatever .... ) after she started the class and, during a
> > > > discussion with her doc, mentioned that she was taking a stained glass
> > > > course.  The doc, then, advised that she drop out.  I don't think she had
> > > > the thing when she started the course.  Sorry, but even my details are
> > > > limited, all I know is she dropped out and claimed her doc advised that the
> > > > soldering irons could be a problem .....
> > > > 
> > > > Mike Peck
> > > > Summit Stained Glass
> > > > 
> > > > ----
> > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > 
> > > 
> > > i gues it's just as well, it's never good for business when someone
> > > drops dead, because they were in your class... :)
> > > 
> > > ---Mike Savad
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Mike's Stained Glass
> > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> > > 
> > > New Pages Added:
> > > 
> > >  - More Tips and Techniques
> > >  - How to Fix Mistakes
> > >  - The History of My Shop
> > >  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 00:37:07 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:36:48 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150836.AAA21390@m2.sprynet.com>
References: <<199702141723.MAA07448@vixa.voyager.net>>
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Precedence: bulk

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-----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------


> 
> >Hi Stephanie.  Do you have the name of the directory or an address where
> >we can contact them?  Peggy.
> 
> Well, it's actually called "The Directory of Stained Glass Books and
> Patterns" and is published by Stained Glass Images in California.  The most
> current one is the "Fifth Edition:  1995".  This isn't normally a product
> that we carry, but I *demanded* one, so a few extras were brought in.
> 
> Currently this edition is being packaged along with the 4th edition for
> 1992-94. If you are interested in purchasing it from us it's #6450 for $16.95.
> 
> I hope this information is helpful.  Wishing you all an exceptional weekend!
> 
> Happy Valentine's Day!
> Stephanie
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
>                        **  E-mail:  delphigl@voyager.net
> Delphi Stained Glass   **  WWW:     http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass
> 2116 E. Michigan Ave.  **  Voice:   1-800-248-2048 (USA,Canada)
> Lansing, MI  48912     **           1-517-482-2617 (International)
> USA                    **  Fax:     1-800-748-0374 (USA,Canada)
>                                     1-517-482-4028 (International)
> _____________________________________________________________________
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 00:40:18 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:39:16 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150839.AAA21858@m2.sprynet.com>
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-----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------


> 
> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> 
> --
> 
> Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> 
> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > Hi Marilyn,
> > 	I've seen a material that is locally referred to as nylon 
> > rip-stop and is used in wind catchers.  I also believe it is used to 
> > make down-filled jackets and vests.  You might want to try an 
> > outdoor-type store and see if they have the material.  Also used for 
> > some tent parts.  However, I have seen a couple wind catchers made from 
> > the nylon rip-stop and the material is very colorful initially.  The 
> > colors tend to fade in the sun over a relatively short period of time.  
> > T. in Montana
> > ANLGlass@AOL.COM wrote:
> > > 
> > > I've been trying to find a source for the kind of ribbons used in
> > > Suzanne Cooper's "Simply Outside" projects.  I'd prefer to get ribbon
> > > instead of cutting my own from fabric if I can.  She suggests
> > > nylon ribbon but I can't find anyone who carries it.  Any
> > > suggestions?
> > > 
> > > Thanks!
> > > 
> > > Marilyn
> > > A New Light
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 00:51:20 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:50:04 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150850.AAA23746@m2.sprynet.com>
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-----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------


> 
> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> 
> --
> 
> Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> 
> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > 
> > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > > 
> > > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Mike Peck wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > >though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i forget if
> > > > > >it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop beating. or
> > > > > >was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart is
> > > > > >working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence than anything
> > > > > >else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there would
> > > > > >be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and dieing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >---Mike Savad
> > > > > 
> > > > > Mike,  It's my understanding that she had the pacemaker inserted
> > > > > (installed?, whatever .... ) after she started the class and, during a
> > > > > discussion with her doc, mentioned that she was taking a stained glass
> > > > > course.  The doc, then, advised that she drop out.  I don't think she had
> > > > > the thing when she started the course.  Sorry, but even my details are
> > > > > limited, all I know is she dropped out and claimed her doc advised that the
> > > > > soldering irons could be a problem .....
> > > > > 
> > > > > Mike Peck
> > > > > Summit Stained Glass
> > > > > 
> > > > > ----
> > > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > i gues it's just as well, it's never good for business when someone
> > > > drops dead, because they were in your class... :)
> > > > 
> > > > ---Mike Savad
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > Mike's Stained Glass
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> > > > 
> > > > New Pages Added:
> > > > 
> > > >  - More Tips and Techniques
> > > >  - How to Fix Mistakes
> > > >  - The History of My Shop
> > > >  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> > > > ----
> > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > > 
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 00:54:34 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:52:30 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150852.AAA24238@m2.sprynet.com>
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-----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------


> 
> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> 
> --
> 
> Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> 
> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > 
> > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > > 
> > > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > > > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > > > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > 
> > > > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > > > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > > > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > > > 
> > > > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > > > > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > > > > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > > > > 
> > > > > --
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > > > > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> > > > > Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> > > > > 
> > > > > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > ----
> > > > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > > > > 
> > > > > ----
> > > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > > > 
> > > > ----
> > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > > 
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 01:00:28 1997
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From: Interserv Operations <postmaster@sprynet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:00:30 -0800
Message-ID: <199702150900.BAA25347@m2.sprynet.com>
References: <<199702150725.XAA10354@m2.sprynet.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
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-----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------


> 
> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> 
> --
> 
> Sprynet Network Operations Center		Postmaster@sprynet.com
> 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B			noc@interserv.net
> Seattle, WA. 95121				CompuServe/Internet Division
> 
> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > I guess my question was very vauge. 
> > 
> > What would be the input (i.e., paper, files, etc.)?
> > I can output any format (gif, eps, pdf).
> > Usually sites like Spectrum software have gif files, it doesn't seem to
> > cause any problems that I'm aware of. 
> > I do have a plotter, color printers, scanners, etc.
> > The first thing to keep in mind is the target audience (SG people, not
> > necessarly computer geeks).
> > The end product is most important; ease of use, fast download, good output,
> > etc. 
> > 
> > Is the final output going to be an electronic book, home page, bound paper
> > book, Loose Leaf type book, photographs?
> > 
> > I'm available as a resource, co-author, whatever.
> > 
> > You can reach me at e-mail, pkelly@sagelink.net
> > 
> > Good Luck
> > Pat
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----------
> > > From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
> > > To: glass@bungi.com
> > > Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
> > > Date: Friday, February 14, 1997 12:26 AM
> > > 
> > > Pat Kelly wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Joyce,
> > > >         I have access to all the the software. I seem to be missing
> > something
> > > > though. What is it you are trying to do? I teach desktop publishing and
> > can
> > > > scan cartoons and put them out in any format.
> > > > 
> > > > Please advise.This was the suggestion from Dave Rand when I asked what
> > was necessary:
> > > 
> > > "I suggest that they be made available in a GIF format, scaled 
> > > appropriately
> > > for previewing, then in Postscript, or (preferably) PDF format as the
> > > clickable link.  A JPEG file of the finished product in colour would be
> > > great."
> > > 
> > > I've never downloaded anything from the PDF format, so I was 
> > > considerably confused when this was mentioned....and wondered exactly 
> > > why it's necessary.  But to my knowledge, the accuracy of printing is 
> > > much better when using these types of files.  (Personally, I never trust 
> > > printouts anyway, because I don't have a plotter, and always have to 
> > > paste together several sheets to get my final design, and have to square 
> > > things up by hand in the end anyway.)  But in order to do things by the 
> > > book, I have requested this information.  Maybe we should take a vote as 
> > > to whether this step is necessary or not.  What have been people's 
> > > experiences with this type of file?  It's my understanding that everyone 
> > > would have to download a "reader" type program in order to be able to  
> > > print these out.
> > > 
> > > Can we informally discuss this a bit, then give me some hard votes about 
> > > whether this is the way to go or not?
> > > 
> > > Joyce Moran
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 05:35:07 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vvkGS-0000bRa; Sat, 15 Feb 97 05:34 PST
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 08:33:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.33321.0>
References: <<199702150829.CAA28176@sage.sagelink.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Pat Kelly wrote:
> 
> I guess my question was very vauge.
> 
> What would be the input (i.e., paper, files, etc.)?
> I can output any format (gif, eps, pdf).
> Usually sites like Spectrum software have gif files, it doesn't seem to
> cause any problems that I'm aware of.
> I do have a plotter, color printers, scanners, etc.
> The first thing to keep in mind is the target audience (SG people, not
> necessarly computer geeks).
> The end product is most important; ease of use, fast download, good output,
> etc.
> 
> Is the final output going to be an electronic book, home page, bound paper
> book, Loose Leaf type book, photographs?


I'm open to suggestions about what the final output is going to 
be...right now I'm just trying to get an archive on the bungi.com site 
so that everyone can download and print on their own printers at home.  
My thoughts were to try to keep track of the most downloaded files and 
try to put those together into something everyone could have as a hard 
copy.  But since I have not received even the first pattern yet....I'm 
wondering how many people are really going to contribute and if this 
discussion is all for nothing.....if you are waiting to see what 
everyone else has contributed, don't...we'll be waiting forever!  If you 
are hung up on the quality of the black lines in your design, don't 
be....all that can be manipulated through the wonders of technology.  If 
you are snowed in and absolutely cannot get to the mailbox.(or 
dead from soldering iron/pacemaker exposure)...then, and only then do 
you have an acceptable excuse.

Spectrum's downloadable patterns of the month are in pdf format, and do 
print beautifully.  (Except for the one problem I had with the 
diaphanous pattern).  But do people want to have to have another program 
to do what we really can do with jpeg files?  I think all this pdf stuff 
is way over most people's heads (mine included until I did some 
research) and they don't really know what to think about the 
publishing/printing aspects of it.

As for storage in the pdf format....if it's never going to be used on a 
website....that seems like a lot of work for nothing.  Patterns that are 
going to be published or printed for publishing can be converted as they 
are selected for that process.

At this point, if only a few patterns are submitted there would be no 
reason why I couldn't print out 20 copies of each and put together a 
booklet, and send them out for the cost of postage.  But if we have 200 
patterns, that might be another story.

please more discussion on what you want....I am not the decision maker, 
only the implementer.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran

Please send pattern submissions to
	joyce@mail.bright.net
		or
	Garden of Glass
	501 N. Madriver St.
	Bellefontaine, OH  43311
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 07:00:06 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vvlab-0001Eaa; Sat, 15 Feb 97 06:59 PST
X-Path: uninet.net!mcastle
From: mcastle@uninet.net (Martin Castle)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Castle Pattern
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:59:24 -0500
Message-ID: <v01540b02af2b7f600526@[206.137.208.31]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I now this topic was brought up recently but can't seem to remember if
there was an answer. I am also looking for a Castle Pattern for my folks. I
realize there is a make believe castle pattern but I am looking for
something more real looking. Thanks for you help Martin

Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941

207 382 6207                  207 382 6207

Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
Islesboro Central School      Unity College
PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
Islesboro Maine 04848

207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220

207 734 8159 Fax

email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net

You can't be lost if you don't care where you are.








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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 07:39:27 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vvmCg-0001FPa; Sat, 15 Feb 97 07:39 PST
X-Path: qni.com!bmorgan
From: Brian Morgan <bmorgan@qni.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "fake" stained glass
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:39:44 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.33944.0>
References: <<1997Feb11.143936.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> this is the "peel away" type stained glass. comes out of a bottle,
> sticks to the glass. for fake stained glass, this is at least sort of
> nice to look at.. i think they sell this junk on those "buy that junk"
> shows.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
My wife bought a set of a late night tv program.  The stuff looks
amazing.  She made thre or four projects and they looked great.  If she
wouldn't have done that we would have never taken REAL stained glass
classes.  We also saw refils at our local Hobby Lobby a chain of craft
stores.  Maybe the infomercials will help the art of Stained Glass after
all.
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 08:46:17 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vvnFG-00017Ea; Sat, 15 Feb 97 08:45 PST
X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy
From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:36:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.63651.0>
References: <<199702150802.AAA16194@m2.sprynet.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Is there something weird going on with the mail daemon? I've gotten a
slew of these messages in my inbox?
Interserv Operations wrote:
> 
> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> 
> --
> 
> Sprynet Network Operations Center               Postmaster@sprynet.com
> 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B                       noc@interserv.net
> Seattle, WA. 95121                              CompuServe/Internet Division
> 
> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> >
> > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Sprynet Network Operations Center             Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B                     noc@interserv.net
> > Seattle, WA. 95121                            CompuServe/Internet Division
> >
> > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Mike Peck wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i forget if
> > > > >it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop beating. or
> > > > >was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart is
> > > > >working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence than anything
> > > > >else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there would
> > > > >be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and dieing.
> > > > >
> > > > >---Mike Savad
> > > >
> > > > Mike,  It's my understanding that she had the pacemaker inserted
> > > > (installed?, whatever .... ) after she started the class and, during a
> > > > discussion with her doc, mentioned that she was taking a stained glass
> > > > course.  The doc, then, advised that she drop out.  I don't think she had
> > > > the thing when she started the course.  Sorry, but even my details are
> > > > limited, all I know is she dropped out and claimed her doc advised that the
> > > > soldering irons could be a problem .....
> > > >
> > > > Mike Peck
> > > > Summit Stained Glass
> > > >
> > > > ----
> > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
> > >
> > > i gues it's just as well, it's never good for business when someone
> > > drops dead, because they were in your class... :)
> > >
> > > ---Mike Savad
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mike's Stained Glass
> > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> > >
> > > New Pages Added:
> > >
> > >  - More Tips and Techniques
> > >  - How to Fix Mistakes
> > >  - The History of My Shop
> > >  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 09:03:22 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vvnVy-0000uda; Sat, 15 Feb 97 09:03 PST
X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Listserv Question?
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:03:00 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.730.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I received 14 of them too.  Does that mean that there are 14 messages that we
will never receive then?  Also, is there a way to set this list to a digest
form so instead of receiving so many single messages, it's delivered as a
package every day in one message that's downloaded?  I'm going on vacation
soon and my mailbox will never handle all of this!  Thanks,

Susie

<< 
 Is there something weird going on with the mail daemon? I've gotten a
 slew of these messages in my inbox?
 Interserv Operations wrote:
 > 
 > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All
mail
 > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
 > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox
limit.
 >  >>

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 09:30:01 1997
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	id m0vvnuu-0001Doa; Sat, 15 Feb 97 09:28 PST
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From: Laura Bettingen <labette@sprynet.com>
To: support@sprynet.com
Subject: Delivery FAilure
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:19:19 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.21919.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I keep getting messages in my in box re delivery failure.  What's going
on here?  I'm confused.  I haven't had any trouble from this source
before.  Thanks, Laura Bettingen

Received: 
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            From: 
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              To: 
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          Subject: 
                  Re: [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
            Date: 
                  Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:32:52 -0800
     Message-ID: 
                  <199702150832.AAA20625@m2.sprynet.com>
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                  bulk
           Status: 
X-Mozilla-Status: 
                  0011


The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All
mail
sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient
has
removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox
limit.

--

Sprynet Network Operations Center               Postmaster@sprynet.com
2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B                       noc@interserv.net
Seattle, WA. 95121                              CompuServe/Internet
Division

-----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------


> 
> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> 
> --
> 
> Sprynet Network Operations Center             Postmaster@sprynet.com
> 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B                     noc@interserv.net
> Seattle, WA. 95121                            CompuServe/Internet Division
> 
> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> 
> 
> > 
> > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Sprynet Network Operations Center           Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B                   noc@interserv.net
> > Seattle, WA. 95121                          CompuServe/Internet Division
> > 
> > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > Mike Peck wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > >though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i forget if
> > > > >it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop beating. or
> > > > >was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart is
> > > > >working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence than anything
> > > > >else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there would
> > > > >be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and dieing.
> > > > >
> > > > >---Mike Savad
> > > > 
> > > > Mike,  It's my understanding that she had the pacemaker inserted
> > > > (installed?, whatever .... ) after she started the class and, during a
> > > > discussion with her doc, mentioned that she was taking a stained glass
> > > > course.  The doc, then, advised that she drop out.  I don't think she had
> > > > the thing when she started the course.  Sorry, but even my details are
> > > > limited, all I know is she dropped out and claimed her doc advised that the
> > > > soldering irons could be a problem .....
> > > > 
> > > > Mike Peck
> > > > Summit Stained Glass
> > > > 
> > > > ----
> > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > 
> > > 
> > > i gues it's just as well, it's never good for business when someone
> > > drops dead, because they were in your class... :)
> > > 
> > > ---Mike Savad
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Mike's Stained Glass
> > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> > > 
> > > New Pages Added:
> > > 
> > >  - More Tips and Techniques
> > >  - How to Fix Mistakes
> > >  - The History of My Shop
> > >  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 10:15:23 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vvodN-0000PDa; Sat, 15 Feb 97 10:14 PST
X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:08:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.8830.0>
References: <<1997Feb14.15578.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Phil Taylor wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>         I overheard a conversation in my local glass store that there is
> possibly a web-like material available, from maybe Glass Crafters?, that
> can be inserted into foiled seams for reinforcement.  I was also told
> that it compresses well, doesn't show and adds a fair amount of strength
> to a seam.  Anyone ever heard of this product?  If so, where to get it?
> 
>         We're having a Chinook and that has helped our mindset this
> week.  Of course, since we are full time accountants, this whole season
> until April 15 will be a blur of paper shuffling and soon we'll not even
> notice the weather outside.
> 
>         T. in Montana
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i have a braided type reinforcement, like a solder wick. although it's a
bit thicker to use, and not as much comes on a roll, it works really
well. normal reinforcement tape, the solder just sticks on the edge. the
braided kind, the solder flows into it, making it alot stronger. plus it
does'nt corrode because it's already been tinned.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 10:21:27 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vvojR-00018ta; Sat, 15 Feb 97 10:21 PST
X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "fake" stained glass
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:14:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.81441.0>
References: <<1997Feb15.33944.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Brian Morgan wrote:
> 
> M. Savad wrote:
> > this is the "peel away" type stained glass. comes out of a bottle,
> > sticks to the glass. for fake stained glass, this is at least sort of
> > nice to look at.. i think they sell this junk on those "buy that junk"
> > shows.
> >
> > ---Mike Savad
> >
> > --
> > Mike's Stained Glass
> > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> >
> My wife bought a set of a late night tv program.  The stuff looks
> amazing.  She made thre or four projects and they looked great.  If she
> wouldn't have done that we would have never taken REAL stained glass
> classes.  We also saw refils at our local Hobby Lobby a chain of craft
> stores.  Maybe the infomercials will help the art of Stained Glass after
> all.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
 

maybe... but the main problem is, is that some people are "blind" to
whats good and what's not. like for example, i 'could' have a table with
real wood. or for have the price get one made of melamine with a picture
of wood on the surface. sure they both look like wood, but only the real
thing is best. and some people can't figure that out... but of course in
your case, you saw the color, i guess compared it too real glass...no
contest... and now your doing the real thing...which of course is alot
better.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 10:23:54 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vvoko-0000SRa; Sat, 15 Feb 97 10:22 PST
X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:16:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.81615.0>
References: <<1997Feb15.63651.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

shyguy wrote:
> 
> Is there something weird going on with the mail daemon? I've gotten a
> slew of these messages in my inbox?
> Interserv Operations wrote:
> >
> > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Sprynet Network Operations Center               Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B                       noc@interserv.net
> > Seattle, WA. 95121                              CompuServe/Internet Division
> >
> > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> >
> > >
> > > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  All mail
> > > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the recipient has
> > > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system mailbox limit.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Sprynet Network Operations Center             Postmaster@sprynet.com
> > > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B                     noc@interserv.net
> > > Seattle, WA. 95121                            CompuServe/Internet Division
> > >
> > > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike Peck wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i forget if
> > > > > >it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop beating. or
> > > > > >was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart is
> > > > > >working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence than anything
> > > > > >else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there would
> > > > > >be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and dieing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >---Mike Savad
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike,  It's my understanding that she had the pacemaker inserted
> > > > > (installed?, whatever .... ) after she started the class and, during a
> > > > > discussion with her doc, mentioned that she was taking a stained glass
> > > > > course.  The doc, then, advised that she drop out.  I don't think she had
> > > > > the thing when she started the course.  Sorry, but even my details are
> > > > > limited, all I know is she dropped out and claimed her doc advised that the
> > > > > soldering irons could be a problem .....
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Peck
> > > > > Summit Stained Glass
> > > > >
> > > > > ----
> > > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > i gues it's just as well, it's never good for business when someone
> > > > drops dead, because they were in your class... :)
> > > >
> > > > ---Mike Savad
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mike's Stained Glass
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> > > >
> > > > New Pages Added:
> > > >
> > > >  - More Tips and Techniques
> > > >  - How to Fix Mistakes
> > > >  - The History of My Shop
> > > >  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> > > > ----
> > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > > >
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it's due to that guys mail box, his box is re-spewing and bouncing mack
the mail. he has to empty out his or her box. a simaler thing happened
with someones compuserve box...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 11:31:14 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vvpp2-0000WJa; Sat, 15 Feb 97 11:30 PST
X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delivery FAilure
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:30:51 PST
Message-ID: <m0vvpox-0000WJC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "Delivery FAilure" on Feb 15,  9:19, Laura Bettingen writes:]
> I keep getting messages in my in box re delivery failure.  What's going
> on here?  I'm confused.  I haven't had any trouble from this source
> before.  Thanks, Laura Bettingen

This person's mail was bouncing.  I've removed them from the list


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 13:51:56 1997
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	id m0vvs17-00004ya; Sat, 15 Feb 97 13:51 PST
X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutting
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 16:51:26 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.115126.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Recently I changed my glass cutting style completely.  I stopped using a cut
out pattern and started cutting glass by tracing the piece directly on the
glass and sometimes cutting the piece directly without tracing at all.

In my first efforts I would place the pattern under the glass and using a
strong light overhead light source, I was getting good results.  Impressed by
my success, I decided to build a light box which I did using two ge light
sticks in the box and a sheet of white
3/8" plastic.

I don't seem to be getting a nice clean "read" of the pattern.  The lines
seem pretty
wide and fuzzy.  My cutting seems to be somewhat degraded.  I think it is
either 
the light source or plastic top of my light box.   Has anyone else had this
experience?
Has anyone got any good ideas or suggestions?   Are the store bought light
boxes
any better?

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 15:07:26 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com (Donald A DeVoto)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutting
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:05:45 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.23545.0>
References: <<1997Feb15.115126.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I would think that you don't have enough light under your (plastic) 1/4
in. glass would be much better,so i have been told!! I use this plus lite
tubes every 4 inches . Of course  if you are working with some of the
dark opaque  glass you probably will have to go to the pattern. On lead i
use mylar and cut with lead shears, this seems to work fine for me when i
cant' see the sharpie lines through the lite box. I hope this among all
your answers will help. Good luck Don.De Voto
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 19:53:34 1997
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	id m0vvxey-0000p1a; Sat, 15 Feb 97 19:53 PST
X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:00:52 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.13052.0>
References: <<1997Feb15.33321.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hi Joyce,
	Since we are accountants, this time of year is our busiest.  I 
have a couple patterns I designed that I want to send that have been 
highly complimented.  I just need to get to town to use a copier that 
can reduce them to letter size and, hopefully, will eliminate the flux 
residue markings.
	Please don't get too impatient with those of us who are not in 
this as a full time endeavor.  I am very excited about this whole 
undertaking.

> > Is the final output going to be an electronic book, home page, bound paper
> > book, Loose Leaf type book, photographs?
> 
> I'm open to suggestions about what the final output is going to
> be...

I'd love a hard copy, and would be more than happy to pay for your time 
in addition to the postage.

> At this point, if only a few patterns are submitted there would be no
> reason why I couldn't print out 20 copies of each and put together a
> booklet, and send them out for the cost of postage.  But if we have 200
> patterns, that might be another story.

	As an aside, I had a tough time getting patterns from Spectrum 
to print out.  I was finally able, with lots of gritted teeth, foul 
language and such, to get the patterns copied onto my disk, but for some 
unknown reason, I can't get them to the printer.
				T. in Montana
> 
> Garden of Glass
> Joyce Moran
> 
> Please send pattern submissions to
>         joyce@mail.bright.net
>                 or
>         Garden of Glass
>         501 N. Madriver St.
>         Bellefontaine, OH  43311
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 20:18:41 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com (Donald A DeVoto)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutting
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:17:17 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb16.21717.0>
References: <<1997Feb15.115126.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


On Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:05:45 EST eldondo1@juno.com (Donald A DeVoto)
writes:
>I would think that you don't have enough light under your (plastic) 
>1/4
>in. glass would be much better,so i have been told!! I use this plus 
>lite
>tubes every 4 inches . Of course  if you are working with some of the
>dark opaque  glass you probably will have to go to the pattern. On 
>lead i
>use mylar and cut with lead shears, this seems to work fine for me 
>when i
>cant' see the sharpie lines through the lite box. I hope this among 
>all
>your answers will help. Good luck Don.De Voto
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 20:18:49 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutting
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:18:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.151834.0>
References: <<1997Feb15.115126.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Recently I changed my glass cutting style completely.  I stopped using a cut
> out pattern and started cutting glass by tracing the piece directly on the
> glass and sometimes cutting the piece directly without tracing at all.
> 
> In my first efforts I would place the pattern under the glass and using a
> strong light overhead light source, I was getting good results.  Impressed by
> my success, I decided to build a light box which I did using two ge light
> sticks in the box and a sheet of white
> 3/8" plastic.
> 
> I don't seem to be getting a nice clean "read" of the pattern.  The lines
> seem pretty
> wide and fuzzy.  My cutting seems to be somewhat degraded.  I think it is
> either
> the light source or plastic top of my light box.   Has anyone else had this
> experience?
> Has anyone got any good ideas or suggestions?   Are the store bought light
> boxes
> any better?
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i cut using a light box. i trace the lines onto the glass, the only main
hard parts would be: #1 the glass has a thickness so theremight be an
optical difference. #2 some glass is too dark for that method.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 20:24:34 1997
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	id m0vvy95-0000oba; Sat, 15 Feb 97 20:24 PST
X-Path: snet.net!tbyrnes
From: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@snet.net>
To: "'glass'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: FW: cutting    & Light box
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:45:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.134544.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC1B70.92D8CC60
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Hi JJ;
 I was taught to use Wax-Free Tracing Paper on dark opaque glass, and a =
light box, with quarter inch frosted glass. I was told that plastic was =
unsafe.

I made my own light box, using 4 florescent bulbs inside.  The box is =
made of wood with the inside painted white and a few holes drilled thru =
the sides to vent the heat out.  You can e-mail me direct and I willsend =
you the specs. for my light box.
  Tim [QM Stained Glass]

----------
From: 	JJKIRBY@aol.com[SMTP:JJKIRBY@aol.com]
Sent: 	Saturday, February 15, 1997 11:51 AM
To: 	glass@bungi.com
Subject: 	Re: cutting

Recently I changed my glass cutting style completely.  I stopped using a =
cut
out pattern and started cutting glass by tracing the piece directly on =
the
glass and sometimes cutting the piece directly without tracing at all.

In my first efforts I would place the pattern under the glass and using =
a
strong light overhead light source, I was getting good results.  =
Impressed by
my success, I decided to build a light box which I did using two ge =
light
sticks in the box and a sheet of white
3/8" plastic.

I don't seem to be getting a nice clean "read" of the pattern.  The =
lines
seem pretty
wide and fuzzy.  My cutting seems to be somewhat degraded.  I think it =
is
either=20
the light source or plastic top of my light box.   Has anyone else had =
this
experience?
Has anyone got any good ideas or suggestions?   Are the store bought =
light
boxes
any better?

----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 20:43:14 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vvyR8-0001DIa; Sat, 15 Feb 97 20:42 PST
X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3
From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha )
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Atlas
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:33:52 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702160333.VAA22199@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You wrote: 
>
>I would like to comment on the Atlas.
>
>I have been working with CAD programs for the last ten years and have
>found that though scanning, exporting, and importing are all different
>ways of getting information into a CAD program it is not always the 
best
>answer.
>
>Scanning; When you scan an image, to keep it simple, that image is
>scanned as one whole unit. You can increase, decrease, stretch, or 
size
>the image, but these are the only things you can do to the image. I 
know
>this does not sound limiting, but once you see how fast you can design
>with a CAD program you will you will not want to be limited.
>
>As with scanning, importing and exporting between programs does just
>about the same thing. If the design does not have the working 
extension
>of the CAD program you are using then the image stays as one unit.
>
>Now in most CAD programs this is not a problem. But when you are
>designing for Stained Glass there are considerations. Like lead line
>thickness. Also, suppose you scan or import a flower; you want to 
change
>a petal on the flower. Will if you scan or import this flower you 
cannot
>change just one element of that flower. If you take the time to draw 
the
>flower in a CAD program you can change this flower anyway you want.
>After you have drawn one flower and then changed it and saved it as
>another, you start building libraries of drawnings.




One other posibility is to use the imported/scanned immage as a 
sketched layer over which you can draw plines to constuct your master 
image. After you are done tracing all you need to do is turn off all 
but the scanned layer and erase. One thing you forgot to mention is how 
large some of these imported images can get.
>



>In other words clip art is great for other CAD programs, but for 
Stained
>Glass, the work, as always has to be done first. The good part is that
>it only has to be done once.
>
>As far as printing; if everyone were to used the same CAD program. 
Then
>all you would have to do is post your drawing on your Email. Then
>everyone else would just simply download and away they go.
>
>To make and share patterns is very easy if you have the right tools.
>


One other think to consider is that most commercial plotting services 
handle cad vector drawings. .dwg and .dfx outputs are commonly handled 
and can be simply printed out to any desireable scale without the user 
needing to have the software. All they need is access to a commercial 
printing service. At that point they can request the dimensions desired 
as long as the orriginal drawing aspect ratio is compatible to the 
desired size ratio. Also of interest is that .dfx output is a common 
extension in many import engines, though as you mention it is not 
unusal to have some distortion of the immage in the filtering.
>


ms


>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 20:48:57 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:34:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb15.153441.0>
References: <<1997Feb14.15578.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Phil Taylor wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>         I overheard a conversation in my local glass store that there is
> possibly a web-like material available, from maybe Glass Crafters?, that
> can be inserted into foiled seams for reinforcement.  I was also told
> that it compresses well, doesn't show and adds a fair amount of strength
> to a seam.  Anyone ever heard of this product?  If so, where to get it?
> 
>         We're having a Chinook and that has helped our mindset this
> week.  Of course, since we are full time accountants, this whole season
> until April 15 will be a blur of paper shuffling and soon we'll not even
> notice the weather outside.
> 
>         T. in Montana

I sell and use a product called Venture Reinforcing Strip.  It fits in 
between the pieces of a large copper foil panel and seems to reinforce 
quite well.  The copper itself is very rigid in one direction, but will 
bend in the other direction (around the pieces).  I use it all the time 
on anything more than 2 sq ft.  I have used the mesh stuff also on the 
perimeter of an item and like it too.  It seems to be a bit more 
flexible around corners.  Hope it's available out in the outer regions 
of civilization, where you seem to be.  (Just couldn't resist, but 
refrained from calling it the "boonies")

Joyce Moran
----
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 15 23:34:52 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: cutting/light box
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 21:38:52 -0500
Message-ID: <199702160540.VAA21737@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

I cut almost only opals, and even black.

Generally there is enough reflected light from the fixtures above my head to
be able to see a patttern line on dark glasses. My cutting light box has 6
60watt CLEAR bulbs on two dimmable circuits.

The cutting surface is 1/4" plate clear glass...when I have hours of non-
stop cutting to do, I put a piece of tracing paper aka (onion skin) under
the glass to soften the "glare".
By having a cutting table light,I can cut for full color effect and phasing,

I also have a 26x40 light table for viewing full sheets as well as laying
out a full lamp in pieces. There is three sections of plate for the top, and
I can remove those and then view another sheet if necessary.

Because I only do lamps, I need very little daylight to see the glass.

For me, clear bulbs are best.

enjoy...........H 



--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
    2/1/97       http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 16 03:08:27 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Pattern Books
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:33:36 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb16.43336.0>
References: <<199702140248.VAA13044@gate.usaor.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


I';d be interested in purchasing some if not all copies of the older
pattern books you have. I've only been into stained glass the last 3
years and I'm sure I've missed some great pattern books. Mary Austin
888-2548 fax   diamonds@juno.com


On Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:40:07 -0500 "Mary Ann Dulemba"
<madglass@usaor.net> writes:
>Hi folks,
>
>First of all, I would like to say I have enjoyed the group!  I have 
>picked
>up a few pointers, but feel less knowledgeable than most!  But, I will
>keep offering what I think is helpful.
>
>I have a nice selection of pattern books that I have accumulated over 
>the
>past five years - a Christmas one that is out of print.  If anyone is
>looking for a particular pattern, I would be happy to send you a list 
>of
>books I have.  
>
>mad
>
>----------
>> From: B. J. Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
>> To: glass@bungi.com
>> Subject: Re: Glass Magic 3.0
>> Date: Sunday, February 09, 1997 6:23 PM
>> 
>> Perhaps asking Stephanie at Delphi might be helpful.  I bought the
>program
>> through Delphi and needed to contact MicroGlass.  Stephanie 
>facilitated
>the
>> contact for me.  If the address has changed, she may know the new 
>one.
>>                  Stephanie, are you listening?
>> 
>> At 04:54 PM 2/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> >
>> >> > > I haven't seen a web site however, the e-mail address for 
>them
>is:	
>> >> MicroGlass@aol.com
>> >
>> >
>> >I tried that address.  No joy.  Unknown at aol.com
>> >
>> >albert
>> >
>> >Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>> >International Guild of Glass Artists
>> >A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>> >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
>> >----
>> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>> >
>> Barbara J. Snell
>> Dept. of Campus Life
>> Cornell University
>> bjs10@cornell.edu
>> 
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 16 03:36:30 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:48:35 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb16.44835.0>
References: <<199702150802.AAA16194@m2.sprynet.com>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I've got them too and would like to know where in the hell they're from.
mary diamonds@juno.com



On Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:36:51 -0500 shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net> writes:
>Is there something weird going on with the mail daemon? I've gotten a
>slew of these messages in my inbox?
>Interserv Operations wrote:
>> 
>> The message that you sent to the above recipient was not delivered.  
>All mail
>> sent to this account will continue to be returned until the 
>recipient has
>> removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system 
>mailbox limit.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Sprynet Network Operations Center               
>Postmaster@sprynet.com
>> 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B                       noc@interserv.net
>> Seattle, WA. 95121                              CompuServe/Internet 
>Division
>> 
>> -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
>> 
>> >
>> > The message that you sent to the above recipient was not 
>delivered.  All mail
>> > sent to this account will continue to be returned until the 
>recipient has
>> > removed enough mail to lower the mailbox size below the system 
>mailbox limit.
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Sprynet Network Operations Center             
>Postmaster@sprynet.com
>> > 2001 6th Ave. Suite 3025B                     noc@interserv.net
>> > Seattle, WA. 95121                            CompuServe/Internet 
>Division
>> >
>> > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Mike Peck wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >though it still makes me wonder what happened. did the she (i 
>forget if
>> > > > >it was a girl or guy), leave the class and her heart stop 
>beating. or
>> > > > >was she at home, when she relized "hmmm i dont think my heart 
>is
>> > > > >working...odd..". i think it's still more of a coincedence 
>than anything
>> > > > >else. usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think 
>there would
>> > > > >be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor 
>and dieing.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >---Mike Savad
>> > > >
>> > > > Mike,  It's my understanding that she had the pacemaker 
>inserted
>> > > > (installed?, whatever .... ) after she started the class and, 
>during a
>> > > > discussion with her doc, mentioned that she was taking a 
>stained glass
>> > > > course.  The doc, then, advised that she drop out.  I don't 
>think she had
>> > > > the thing when she started the course.  Sorry, but even my 
>details are
>> > > > limited, all I know is she dropped out and claimed her doc 
>advised that the
>> > > > soldering irons could be a problem .....
>> > > >
>> > > > Mike Peck
>> > > > Summit Stained Glass
>> > > >
>> > > > ----
>> > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: 
>glass-request@bungi.com
>> > > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > i gues it's just as well, it's never good for business when 
>someone
>> > > drops dead, because they were in your class... :)
>> > >
>> > > ---Mike Savad
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Mike's Stained Glass
>> > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>> > >
>> > > New Pages Added:
>> > >
>> > >  - More Tips and Techniques
>> > >  - How to Fix Mistakes
>> > >  - The History of My Shop
>> > >  - My Adventures of Mold Making
>> > > ----
>> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: 
>glass-request@bungi.com
>> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>> > >
>> > ----
>> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>> >
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 16 04:55:52 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 06:51:07 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116222337.2bf711fa@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi folks,
While we are on this subject, Delphi sells some (I think flexible) copper
reinforcing strip stuff for foil work to put in the seams.  I am trying to
get my local supplier to get some.  I was wondering..... I understand that
to do any good, reinforcing needs to be rigid and knotched into the wood
frame.... so is this flexible stuff any good? I have to reinforce the top
panel of the pig motiff well, as it is the top 1/2 of a door.  Meg

At 10:57 PM 2/14/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>	I overheard a conversation in my local glass store that there is 
>possibly a web-like material available, from maybe Glass Crafters?, that 
>can be inserted into foiled seams for reinforcement.  I was also told 
>that it compresses well, doesn't show and adds a fair amount of strength 
>to a seam.  Anyone ever heard of this product?  If so, where to get it?
>
>	We're having a Chinook and that has helped our mindset this 
>week.  Of course, since we are full time accountants, this whole season 
>until April 15 will be a blur of paper shuffling and soon we'll not even 
>notice the weather outside.
>
>	T. in Montana
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 16 05:36:29 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:19:49 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb14.51949.0>
References: <<1997Feb11.42643.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd love to have the pattern of the aids ribbon. I will look and see if I
have a pattern of a pig or can draw you  one.
Mary
diamonds@juno.com


On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:26:43 -0500 Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@snet.net> writes:
>
>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC17FD.D361D4A0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>  Hi Everybody;
>
>  Can someone tell me where I might find a Pattern of a Pig. I have 
>been =
>reading all the postings for the last 6 months, and decided to make =
>myself visible. I have been doing Stained Glass for about 2 1/2 years, 
>=
>and have learned alot from all of you.
>  I have a pattern of the Aids Ribbon, that is my own design, that I 
>am =
>willing to share with all of you.
>
>  Thanks in advance,
>
>      Q M Stained Glass Studio
>                      Tim
>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC17FD.D361D4A0
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>
>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC17FD.D361D4A0--
>
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 16 08:52:51 1997
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From: ScottSGN@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: fake glass/delivery failure
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:52:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb16.6527.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>> this is the "peel away" type stained glass. comes out of a bottle,
>> sticks to the glass.

Actually, the original message asking about "fake" stained glass was
referring to Stained Glass Overlay. There was a mention of their web site,
which you can visit at: "www.sgoinc.com".  It appears to be a new site that
looks pretty good actually.

For those that don't know, SGO has been around for at least 15-20 years. They
sell franchises so that you, too, can go into business making plastic coated
windows. 

>> My wife bought a set of a late night tv program.  The stuff looks
>> amazing.  She made thre or four projects and they looked great.

This is NOT Stained Glass Overlay. They don't sell their materials
separately. They're only available to their franchised dealers.

>> If she wouldn't have done that we would have never taken REAL stained
glass
>> classes. (snip)  Maybe the infomercials will help the art of Stained Glass
after
>> all.

>maybe... but the main problem is, is that some people are "blind" to
>whats good and what's not.

Now, while I've made my living in the stained glass business for over 15
years, I don't really have a problem with SGO. I don't think it's a matter of
"what's good and what's not." The overlay method has its place. In fact, in
an odd way, fast food restaurants and SGO seem like a perfect match to me.

SGO's claim is that you can apply the design to a single, large sheet of
glass, even tempered glass. While this is true, the flip side (ammunition for
the stained glass purists) is that if the window does take a shot and develop
a crack, you have to replace the ENTIRE window... you can't just repair a
piece or two.

I remember seeing an SGO display at a Home Show about a dozen years ago. They
had a "stained glass" floor (tempered glass with the plastic film applied)
you could walk on. I think they're still waiting for the "stained glass
floor" trend to really kick in.

>like for example, i 'could' have a table with
>real wood. or for have the price get one made of melamine with a picture
>of wood on the surface. sure they both look like wood, but only the real
>thing is best.

Best for whom? For those who appreciate it and can afford it, I assume.

>and some people can't figure that out... 

What's to figure out? Some people have no problem with flat, cartoonish
looking SGO windows (see their web site for examples). Others appreciate the
depth and beauty of "the real thing" and are willing to pay a little more for
it.

**********************************************

> Is there something weird going on with the mail daemon?
> > > -----[ Orginal mail message follows ]-------------
> > > > Mike Peck wrote:
> > > > > > >usaully when a pacemaker stops working, i would think there
would
> > > > > > >be more of a current visual clue. like falling to the floor and
dieing.
> > > > > > >---Mike Savad

Wow! Check it out! To the best of my knowledge, we've set a new bungi.com
"little arrow" record with the above quotes. For those keeping score at home,
that's seven (7) little arrows... anyone care to respond to this and set a
new record of eight? (I'm kidding... please don't!)

Scott


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From owner-glass Sun Feb 16 09:58:53 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutting
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:58:15 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb16.175815.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


I agree that 1/4 plate glass to best.  Also, if you frost one side lightly
with a sandblaster (very fine grit to get a fine texture!), the light will
disperse much better and more evenly. Don't try to use the light box with a
frosted top to pick glass because it will not be the same as with an
incandescent bulb or natural light.  But, it will show your pattern lines
better. 

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

At 11:05 PM 2/15/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I would think that you don't have enough light under your (plastic) 1/4
>in. glass would be much better,so i have been told!! I use this plus lite
>tubes every 4 inches . Of course  if you are working with some of the
>dark opaque  glass you probably will have to go to the pattern. On lead i
>use mylar and cut with lead shears, this seems to work fine for me when i
>cant' see the sharpie lines through the lite box. I hope this among all
>your answers will help. Good luck Don.De Voto
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 16 14:19:13 1997
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From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:15:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb16.121550.0>
References: <<330661C3.7557@fast.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> Phil Taylor wrote:
 > Hi all,
 >         I overheard a conversation in my local glass store that there
is
 > possibly a web-like material available, from maybe Glass Crafters?,
that
 > can be inserted into foiled seams for reinforcement.  I was also told
 > that it compresses well, doesn't show and adds a fair amount of
strength
 > to a seam.  Anyone ever heard of this product?  If so, where to get
it?
Phil,
We carry an Embedded Tinned Braided Wire Cat. No. #1748-03, 10' for
$2.82
($2.48 each if purchasing 6 or more). It is approximatly 1/16" x 1/8" x
10' and flat on the face sides.

It is very flexible in all directions until touched with a hot iron and
solder (with flux). It is great for curved surfaces such as the
irregular bottom of a lampshade although it will work inside a panel for
reinforcement. 

A thinner reinforcement between pieces of glass is: Copper Restrip 5/32"
x 25' Cat. No. #1835-25 $3.25 This is a hardned copper that will resist
bending side to side. Our phone number is 1-800-523-4242. Let me know if
you have any more questions. Thank you.

Elenie
Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass
http://www.warner-criv.com
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 16 18:39:48 1997
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From: Rod Dagenais <dagenais@limestone.kosone.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: [delivery failure to glassy@m2.sprynet.com]
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:39:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb16.16393.0>
References: <<1997Feb15.63651.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Mystic Glass
Precedence: bulk

shyguy wrote:
> 
> Is there something weird going on with the mail daemon? I've gotten a
> slew of these messages in my inbox?
> Interserv Operations wrote:

I've received six within 1 Hrs !!!!!!!!
-- 
Rodrigue Dagenais
Napanee, Ontario
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 16 18:55:20 1997
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	id m0vwJEI-00017Ta; Sun, 16 Feb 97 18:54 PST
X-Path: detroit.freenet.org!ae479
From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: [ae479@detroit.freenet.org: fusing glass]
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:54:51 -0500
Message-ID: <199702170254.VAA23535@detroit.freenet.org>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



    ================= Begin forwarded message =================

    From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker)
    To: glass@blungi.com
    Cc: ae479
    Subject: fusing glass
    Date: Sat, 15 Feb

    
    
    Barbara and Mike - thanks for your input.
    Am not sure what make the irridescent glass is - found a beautiful scap of 
    black irr. glass and not seen it anywhere else.
    
    Did not realize I could expect to lose color fusing dichroic glass but did 
    notice the difference.  Thought I was cooking it too much but the glass I 
    have is so thick, I couldn't get a flat slump any other way.
    
    Am playing with my new toy - a grinding head with a router edge that
    puts a furrow around the edge of the glass.  Great for wrapping pendants
    with wire but need at least 1/8 thickness - fusing glass would not work
    unless layered.
    
    Any more suggestions occur to you, would appreciate hearing.
    
    Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
    
    
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 16 19:37:49 1997
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	id m0vwJtJ-0000kfa; Sun, 16 Feb 97 19:37 PST
X-Path: icsp.net!rballard
From: Robin Ballard <rballard@icsp.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:33:39 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb16.153339.0>
References: <<1997Feb14.15578.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Phil,

The copper braid I use is called Flex-Bar.  It is tinned copper braid
that (probably the same stuff Mike Savad uses) and really increases the
strength on a project because all the little holes in the braid fill
with solder and really become quite strong.  I sort of uses a lot of
solder because of that, but I use it for alot of things now, including
taking the place of copper wire to reinforce the outside of some
projects.  I like it much better because it easily conforms to any
irregular shape.  No more fighting with trying to get copper wire around
a goofy curve!

I ordered it directly from the guy who makes it.  He's in Missouri. 
He'll sell it to you in any amount you want and he'll UPS it to you. 
His info is:

Parkie's Products
Springfield, Missouri
417-869-6950

Hope this helps!

Robin B.


Phil Taylor wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>         I overheard a conversation in my local glass store that there is
> possibly a web-like material available, from maybe Glass Crafters?, that
> can be inserted into foiled seams for reinforcement.  I was also told
> that it compresses well, doesn't show and adds a fair amount of strength
> to a seam.  Anyone ever heard of this product?  If so, where to get it?
> 
>         We're having a Chinook and that has helped our mindset this
> week.  Of course, since we are full time accountants, this whole season
> until April 15 will be a blur of paper shuffling and soon we'll not even
> notice the weather outside.
> 
>         T. in Montana
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 16 22:06:56 1997
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	id m0vwMDJ-00018ea; Sun, 16 Feb 97 22:06 PST
X-Path: direct.ca!kmccullo
From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 22:07:32 -0800
Message-ID: <199702170605.WAA21615@aphex.direct.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In respone to Meg:

I have used this product on all my doors, and I can tell you that it works
very well. But before you buy make sure that it fits into your came.I have
found that with some of the smaller width's of came the strip buckle in
spots, which did't happen with next larger size came. There could also be a
difference in manufacturing. It can be a bit of a pain to work with but
probably no more that the reinforced came, which I haven't tried.  

>Hi folks,
>While we are on this subject, Delphi sells some (I think flexible) copper
>reinforcing strip stuff for foil work to put in the seams.  I am trying to
>get my local supplier to get some.  I was wondering..... I understand that
>to do any good, reinforcing needs to be rigid and knotched into the wood
>frame.... so is this flexible stuff any good? I have to reinforce the top
>panel of the pig motiff well, as it is the top 1/2 of a door.  Meg
>
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>
>>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 00:18:41 1997
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	id m0vwOHH-0000zSa; Mon, 17 Feb 97 00:18 PST
X-Path: cenebank.nl!mstreng
From: Martin Streng <mstreng@cenebank.nl>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: ribbons for outside use
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:11:03 +0100
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970217081103.006657a0@solair1.inter.nl.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At last a subject i=B4m familiar with, due to years of trekking. Rip-stop
nylon is nylon reinforced with threads in a chess-board style. Puncturing
normal nylon would torn it completely, with rip-stop nylon only the
punctured "field" is damaged.=20

It is used for all kind of outdoor-equipment. BUT:
- it is PU-coated on ONE side only, so the other side is extremely sensitive
for sunshine radiation, causing color-breakdown and deterioration of the=
 fabric;
- it is used for trekking tents only: they are ment to reside in a back-pack
during day-time. So they will not be exposed to the sun too much.
- it is used for light-weight bad-weather clothing with a heavy=
 (PU)-coating.=20

When more exposure to sunlight is expected (heavy-duty clothing,
mountaineering tents) Polyester is used. This is resistent to sunlight and a
fraction heavyer.
Also the size doesn=B4t vary with temperature or humidity, wich is very
important when building tents.

So i think you should go for the polyester stuff. It should also be
available in outdoor-shops (at least here in the Netherlands it is) or in a
build-your-own-kite shop. Obviously kites pose the same demands to the
material that tent-builders do.

Colours: ???


At 22:46 14-02-97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Marilyn,
>	I've seen a material that is locally referred to as nylon=20
>rip-stop and is used in wind catchers.  I also believe it is used to=20
>make down-filled jackets and vests.  You might want to try an=20
>outdoor-type store and see if they have the material.  Also used for=20
>some tent parts.  However, I have seen a couple wind catchers made from=20
>the nylon rip-stop and the material is very colorful initially.  The=20
>colors tend to fade in the sun over a relatively short period of time. =20
>T. in Montana

>
Martin Streng

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 05:10:44 1997
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	id m0vwSo9-0001Ela; Mon, 17 Feb 97 05:08 PST
X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 07:04:03 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116230008.2bff11fa@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Maybe we need to put a deadline on the receiving of designs.... I for one
didn't know there was any hurry, am snowed under creating.... and what I am
creating might be something that could be used in the book (without flying
pigs! :)).  But if there is a hurry I'll send something in sooner and not
wait.  Also a clear reminder as to specs  would be good.  I have saved all
the correspondence, but I beleive several people offered help, and some said
81/2 x11 some said 11x14 and some said several pages if needed. so.....
maybe people are confused, and even not sure if it really is going to
happen!  Meg

At 08:33 AM 2/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Pat Kelly wrote:
>> 
>> I guess my question was very vauge.
>> 
>> What would be the input (i.e., paper, files, etc.)?
>> I can output any format (gif, eps, pdf).
>> Usually sites like Spectrum software have gif files, it doesn't seem to
>> cause any problems that I'm aware of.
>> I do have a plotter, color printers, scanners, etc.
>> The first thing to keep in mind is the target audience (SG people, not
>> necessarly computer geeks).
>> The end product is most important; ease of use, fast download, good output,
>> etc.
>> 
>> Is the final output going to be an electronic book, home page, bound paper
>> book, Loose Leaf type book, photographs?
>
>
>I'm open to suggestions about what the final output is going to 
>be...right now I'm just trying to get an archive on the bungi.com site 
>so that everyone can download and print on their own printers at home.  
>My thoughts were to try to keep track of the most downloaded files and 
>try to put those together into something everyone could have as a hard 
>copy.  But since I have not received even the first pattern yet....I'm 
>wondering how many people are really going to contribute and if this 
>discussion is all for nothing.....if you are waiting to see what 
>everyone else has contributed, don't...we'll be waiting forever!  If you 
>are hung up on the quality of the black lines in your design, don't 
>be....all that can be manipulated through the wonders of technology.  If 
>you are snowed in and absolutely cannot get to the mailbox.(or 
>dead from soldering iron/pacemaker exposure)...then, and only then do 
>you have an acceptable excuse.
>
>Spectrum's downloadable patterns of the month are in pdf format, and do 
>print beautifully.  (Except for the one problem I had with the 
>diaphanous pattern).  But do people want to have to have another program 
>to do what we really can do with jpeg files?  I think all this pdf stuff 
>is way over most people's heads (mine included until I did some 
>research) and they don't really know what to think about the 
>publishing/printing aspects of it.
>
>As for storage in the pdf format....if it's never going to be used on a 
>website....that seems like a lot of work for nothing.  Patterns that are 
>going to be published or printed for publishing can be converted as they 
>are selected for that process.
>
>At this point, if only a few patterns are submitted there would be no 
>reason why I couldn't print out 20 copies of each and put together a 
>booklet, and send them out for the cost of postage.  But if we have 200 
>patterns, that might be another story.
>
>please more discussion on what you want....I am not the decision maker, 
>only the implementer.
>
>Garden of Glass
>Joyce Moran
>
>Please send pattern submissions to
>	joyce@mail.bright.net
>		or
>	Garden of Glass
>	501 N. Madriver St.
>	Bellefontaine, OH  43311
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 05:22:38 1997
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	id m0vwSzX-0000b9a; Mon, 17 Feb 97 05:20 PST
X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 07:15:54 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116231158.2bff3b5e@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

What kind of pig are you looking for.... I am drawing some for a project I
have right now. If they would help you are welcome to them... Meg


At 09:19 PM 2/13/97 PST, you wrote:
>I'd love to have the pattern of the aids ribbon. I will look and see if I
>have a pattern of a pig or can draw you  one.
>Mary
>diamonds@juno.com
>
>
>On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:26:43 -0500 Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@snet.net> writes:
>>>  Hi Everybody;
>>
>>  Can someone tell me where I might find a Pattern of a Pig. I have 
>>been =
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 05:23:13 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 07:15:56 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116231200.2bff3418@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks.... but as yet I only work in foil... maybe now that the local
distrubutor is selling came, I will get around to trying it.  Any advice on
strengthening foil doors....???

At 10:07 PM 2/16/97 -0800, you wrote:
>In respone to Meg:
>
>I have used this product on all my doors, and I can tell you that it works
>very well. But before you buy make sure that it fits into your came.I have
>found that with some of the smaller width's of came the strip buckle in
>spots, which did't happen with next larger size came. There could also be a
>difference in manufacturing. It can be a bit of a pain to work with but
>probably no more that the reinforced came, which I haven't tried.  
>
>>Hi folks,
>>While we are on this subject, Delphi sells some (I think flexible) copper
>>reinforcing strip stuff for foil work to put in the seams.  I am trying to
>>get my local supplier to get some.  I was wondering..... I understand that
>>to do any good, reinforcing needs to be rigid and knotched into the wood
>>frame.... so is this flexible stuff any good? I have to reinforce the top
>>panel of the pig motiff well, as it is the top 1/2 of a door.  Meg
>>
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 05:37:17 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vwTDl-0000dEa; Mon, 17 Feb 97 05:35 PST
X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:33:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb17.33328.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970116230008.2bff11fa@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> Maybe we need to put a deadline on the receiving of designs.... I for one
> didn't know there was any hurry,

There is no hurry on sending in the patterns....however if we are to get 
this thing started....then we DO need to get it started and not wait for 
someone else to submit patterns before we do, because we want to see 
what everyone else is submitting.  That can cause a snowball effect and 
we will end up with no patterns being submitted.

The best way to submit is an already scanned pattern in jpeg format 
through email to joyce@bright.net.  However I know hardly anyone has a 
scanner and I do have scanner equipment and am more than willing to scan 
from patterns.  The next easy option is to have the pattern copied to an 
8.5x11 page or 11x14, or anything else that will accomodate your 
pattern.  If that is not available to you, again I will accomplish that 
here, don't let that stop you from submitting your pattern.  The address 
 to submit paper patterns is
	Garden of Glass
	501 N. Madriver St.
	Bellefontaine, OH  43311

Please include a small description of your design, your name and date of 
design and if possible a color photo of the completed work.

None of this is etched in stone, so please don't let any excuse deter 
you from submitting your designs.

Joyce Moran
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 07:16:42 1997
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	id m0vwUnW-0000Yoa; Mon, 17 Feb 97 07:16 PST
X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:07:51 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb17.15751.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Meg,

I just visited SGO's website and noticed a bathroom window done in SGO with
pig motiff.  You might want to see it for yourself ... www.sgoinc.com, then
go to Photo Gallery, then Bathrooms and look for the pigs. 

At 01:15 PM 2/17/97 +0000, you wrote:
>What kind of pig are you looking for.... I am drawing some for a project I
>have right now. If they would help you are welcome to them... Meg
>
>
>At 09:19 PM 2/13/97 PST, you wrote:
>>I'd love to have the pattern of the aids ribbon. I will look and see if I
>>have a pattern of a pig or can draw you  one.
>>Mary
>>diamonds@juno.com
>>
>>
>>On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:26:43 -0500 Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@snet.net> writes:
>>>>  Hi Everybody;
>>>
>>>  Can someone tell me where I might find a Pattern of a Pig. I have 
>>>been =
>>
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 07:44:28 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vwVCm-0001HQa; Mon, 17 Feb 97 07:42 PST
X-Path: cenebank.nl!mstreng
From: Martin Streng <mstreng@cenebank.nl>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas/final offer for collecting patterns
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:11:14 +0100
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970217151114.00674510@solair1.inter.nl.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Do we all agree to send our patterns to Joyce? 
Suggestion: if someone disagrees, let him or her speak now (or within a day)
or forever hold his tongue. Or else this wedding will go on and on and on
and on.... and we will have another fine soap-opera from the American
culture-belt ;-).

If everybody agrees by NOT sending mail with this subject, then we can start
sending patterns in the way Joyce describes as soon as possible. 

At 08:33 17-02-97 -0500, you wrote:
>Richard LaVal wrote:
>> 
>> Maybe we need to put a deadline on the receiving of designs.... I for one
>> didn't know there was any hurry,
>
>The best way to submit is an already scanned pattern in jpeg format 
>through email to joyce@bright.net.  However I know hardly anyone has a 
>scanner and I do have scanner equipment and am more than willing to scan 
>from patterns.  The next easy option is to have the pattern copied to an 
>8.5x11 page or 11x14, or anything else that will accomodate your 
>pattern.  If that is not available to you, again I will accomplish that 
>here, don't let that stop you from submitting your pattern.  The address 
> to submit paper patterns is
>	Garden of Glass
>	501 N. Madriver St.
>	Bellefontaine, OH  43311
>
>Please include a small description of your design, your name and date of 
>design and if possible a color photo of the completed work.
>
>None of this is etched in stone, so please don't let any excuse deter 
>you from submitting your designs.
>
>Joyce Moran
>
Martin Streng

----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 09:02:24 1997
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	id m0vwWRz-0001Haa; Mon, 17 Feb 97 09:01 PST
X-Path: juno.com!fstryczek
From: fstryczek@juno.com (Frank M. Stryczek, Jr.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:00:19 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb17.17019.0>
References: <<1997Feb14.15578.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Joyce:

Can this stuff be used in lamps?  I'm making a Tiffany reproduction of
Wisteria Laburnum, and would rather not use copper wire to reinforce from
the inside.  Your new product sounds interesting.  Where can I buy some? 
 Any suggestions?

Thanks
F. Stryczek, Jr.


On Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:34:41 -0500 glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
writes:
>Phil Taylor wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>>         I overheard a conversation in my local glass store that 
>there is
>> possibly a web-like material available, from maybe Glass Crafters?, 
>that
>> can be inserted into foiled seams for reinforcement.  I was also 
>told
>> that it compresses well, doesn't show and adds a fair amount of 
>strength
>> to a seam.  Anyone ever heard of this product?  If so, where to get 
>it?
>> 
>>         We're having a Chinook and that has helped our mindset this
>> week.  Of course, since we are full time accountants, this whole 
>season
>> until April 15 will be a blur of paper shuffling and soon we'll not 
>even
>> notice the weather outside.
>> 
>>         T. in Montana
>
>I sell and use a product called Venture Reinforcing Strip.  It fits in 
>
>between the pieces of a large copper foil panel and seems to reinforce 
>
>quite well.  The copper itself is very rigid in one direction, but 
>will 
>bend in the other direction (around the pieces).  I use it all the 
>time 
>on anything more than 2 sq ft.  I have used the mesh stuff also on the 
>
>perimeter of an item and like it too.  It seems to be a bit more 
>flexible around corners.  Hope it's available out in the outer regions 
>
>of civilization, where you seem to be.  (Just couldn't resist, but 
>refrained from calling it the "boonies")
>
>Joyce Moran
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 09:07:39 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas II?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:13:40 +0000
Message-ID: <199702171707.MAA05160@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

They say great minds run in the same tracks. Got the following this 
weekend; passing it along for your edification/interest:

PRESS RELEASE

Modesto, CA:Sierra Stained Glass Studios Inc. announced the formation of a
pattern co-op for stained glass studios and artists nationally.  The co-op
will be called Patterns..Your Way!, and will provide both hobbyists and
professionals the ability to order the patterns custom sized from retail
stores nationally.  The pattern will then be printed and mailed.  Retail
prices will be comparable for standard sizes to current full-sized patterns,
but will vary based on size and complexity.  Custom sizing will be slightly
more.

Royalties will be paid to the originating artist each time the pattern is
ordered.  (Charter contributors will earn 10% royalties of the wholesale
price; subsequent contributors will earn 5% royalties.)  Anyone can submit
artwork (proportional b&w line drawing on 8.5 x 11) for review for the
pattern ordering book which will be distributed free to retail outlets this
summer.  Only original artwork can be accepted.  (The artist will maintain
the copyright, but will license Sierra to market the pattern in exchange for
royalties.)  Contact Dale Lerch at 209/524-2310 for more details, or fax at
209/524-2336, or write:  416  15th  St., Modesto, CA 95354.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 09:20:38 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: fake glass/delivery failure
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:16:18 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702171716.LAA01562@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>For those that don't know, SGO has been around for at least 15-20 years. They
>sell franchises so that you, too, can go into business making plastic coated
>windows. 
>
>>> My wife bought a set of a late night tv program.  The stuff looks
>>> amazing.  She made thre or four projects and they looked great.
>
>This is NOT Stained Glass Overlay. They don't sell their materials
>separately. They're only available to their franchised dealers.

>>maybe... but the main problem is, is that some people are "blind" to
>>whats good and what's not.
>
>Now, while I've made my living in the stained glass business for over 15
>years, I don't really have a problem with SGO. I don't think it's a matter of
>"what's good and what's not." The overlay method has its place. In fact, in
>an odd way, fast food restaurants and SGO seem like a perfect match to me.

>>like for example, i 'could' have a table with
>>real wood. or for have the price get one made of melamine with a picture
>>of wood on the surface. sure they both look like wood, but only the real
>>thing is best.
>
>Best for whom? For those who appreciate it and can afford it, I assume.
>
>>and some people can't figure that out... 
>
>What's to figure out? Some people have no problem with flat, cartoonish
>looking SGO windows 

Your right Scott, some people don't have any problem with alot fake stuff,
however this list deals with stained glass not fake stained glass. Since you
seem so willing to accept SGO and the other permutations, perhaps you should
start a companion publication Fake Stained Glass News.

There are many levels of experience, skill, interest and direction expressed
on this list but the one common denominator is that we apply our energies to
the betterment of the art and craft of stained glass in all it's variations.
I don't think it is appropriate to spend bandwidth legitimizing plastic
stained glass in any way shape or form in this forum. If people cannot
distinguish or appreciate real from fake they should be educated not
patronized. 

Love and Peace

Len


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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 10:07:33 1997
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From: GlasCrafts@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:05:16 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb17.8516.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Phil,
Glass Crafters stocks flexible braided wire for reinforcing in 10' lengths,
as well as the more rigid copper-coated steel Strongline(tm) reinforcing
ribbon.  Please call toll free if you need these products.
Glass Crafters Stained Glass, Inc.
398 Interstate Ct.
Sarasota, FL 34240
1-800-422-4552
1-941-379-8333
FAX: 1-941-379-8827
GlasCrafts@aol.com

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 14:13:50 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!ScottSGN
From: ScottSGN@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: fake glass
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:13:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb17.121323.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>>For those that don't know, SGO has been around for at least 15-20 years.
They
>>sell franchises so that you, too, can go into business making plastic
coated
>>windows.

>>Some people have no problem with flat, cartoonish looking SGO windows.

>I don't think it is appropriate to spend bandwidth legitimizing plastic
>stained glass in any way shape or form in this forum.

Perhaps you read too much into what I said. By referring to SGO windows as
"flat," "cartoonish," and "plastic coated," I didn't think I made them sound
legitimate. No one on this list, myself included, is going to debate the
quality and value of authentic stained glass vs. windows with a plastic
coating. But neither can we deny that there is a market out there for SGO's
product (which, I suppose, in itself, makes it "legitimate"). And I'm
guessing that market probably doesn't overlap a great deal with the market
for authentic stained glass.

>If people cannot distinguish or appreciate real from fake they should be
>educated not patronized.

This is the age old question, isn't it? How do you educate people to
appreciate the "real" thing? How do you turn the market for SGO's stuff into
a market for your stuff? How do you make them appreciate, and want to pay
for, all the time and energy that goes into the "real" thing? These are not
rhetorical questions, by the way... if anyone has any good answers, I'm sure
all who are trying to make money creating "real" stained glass will
appreciate them.

In the original post, I mentioned that if someone cracks a plastic coated
window, the entire window needs to be replaced... you can't just repair a few
pieces as you could with authentic stained glass. Does anyone have other
specific benefits like this to share?

Another way to get someone to appreciate the real thing is to have them take
a class. I've seen plenty of folks over the years who took a class, realized
it took more time and work than they thought, and then said "now I can see
why these things cost so much." And then they bought a finished piece.

Scott
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 16:09:32 1997
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From: George <junkman@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Delphi Sales?
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:12:56 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb17.171256.0>
References: <<1997Feb7.212040.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I am ordering from Delphi for the first time and they offer a 25% discount on
> the first order (very generous, I think).  I've also seen messages alluding
> to their fall sales.  Do they also offer a 25% discount each fall?  If they
> do, it would reorder the priorities of what I'm going to be ordering right
> now and what I could wait until the fall to purchase.  Does anyone know?  TIA
> for any info on this!
> Susie

YES, THEY DO OFFER THIS EVERY FALL.  I love to take advantage  of the
Bullesye"s glass i can buy at that time..
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 16:25:14 1997
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From: George <junkman@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hounds
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:28:42 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb17.172842.0>
References: <<199702090242.CAA01340@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Gloria (3hounds)
> So what's stopping you (apart from money..)?
> C'mon over!!
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> Gloria wrote:
> 
> Elizabeth,
> That is one of the most enjoyable lifes I have ever read... My Borois
> should have such a wonderful life in the fields..they do do alot for my
> gardens.. enjoy the coming of spring.

Years ago I wanted to come to England, but the quarantine laws were too
strong for my friends.. Have they changed.. Maybe, it does not matter,
years ago I wanted to
live there for awhile, now,maybe a visit.
Thanks
> >
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 16:28:13 1997
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From: George <junkman@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: sample sets..was photos of glass
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:31:41 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Feb17.173141.0>
References: <<199702090242.CAA01298@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Thank you Gloria,
> How very kind of you.
> My head is already spinning from the incredible interchange between
> "you and us".  I am learning so much too. And with the great sense of
> fun, warmth and sharing that the majority in Glass@Bungi crowd are
> giving out - am "having a ball".....    :-)
> But, of course, there is a serious side too....
> Elisabeth 'n Toby

Hi, I have been doen for awhile, off line, have not ignored you.. thanks
for the reply and remember everything is  shipping.. so if I can help
leave me know
> 
> Gloria  (3hounds) wrote:
> Elizabeth,
> 
> It was so sad to here the state of stained glass in the UK.. Again, I
> feel that I live the  sheltered live and take so much for common.  If I
> can ever help in your endevours, leave me know.
> 3 hounds
> 
> in reply to Elisabeth, who wrote:
> > Maybe it might still be in the Bungi Archives somewhere, but quite a
> > number of months ago I posted a "historical rambling" to the effect
> > of that the glass manufacturing (for stained glass) died in UK with the
> > Advent of Oliver Cromwell. He was was the fellow who went about
> > smashing up churches in UK. He didn't only smash up churches, he also
> > smashed up and destroyed the manufacturers who made ornamentations
> > for the churches, i.e. especially and including  stained glass
> > artists studios and glass making studios/workshops. The stained glass
> > "industry" in UK never really recovered from this devastation and many
> > glass making techniques were lost forever.Compensations were then
> > brought into the UK from elsewhere in Europe, especially the
> > Flemish/Dutch and German artists. But don't forget, they too suffered
> > the vagaries of wars and destructions. A re-birth of sorts in UK
> > really only happened in the 19th Century with William Morris. Since
> > when there are a couple of British Glass manufacturers producing
> > glass for the stained glass industry. But a couple only. But the majority of glass we
> > use today are imported from USA, Germany, France, Belgium and
> > now Poland. Slowly and often painfully, we are trying to reconstruct
> > destroyed past history and bring it into context of the 20th and 21st
> > Century.The impact of Tiffany in Britain was quite substantial, not
> > so much  in his designs and flamboyance,( which somehow doesn't appear
> > to fit well with the British "pallet"), - the conservative Brits still
> > find him "over the top", but much more resulting in a new surge of historical
> > interest in the stained glass tradition and its revival. John Piper
> > and Patrick Reyntiens - the 2 giants in Britain of stained glass of
> > the 20th Century, never quite reached the emotional "common man" chord. Too
> > academic, too remote, too dry, too abstract - I just don't know. What
> > has caught the "common man's" imagination in Britain is the revival
> > of the Arts & Crafts Movement, Victorian and Art Nouveau stained
> > glass.
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 18:37:48 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: pattern of Chicago
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:36:14 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb17.163614.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone have, or know where I may find, a pattern for the skyline of
Chicago?  I LOVE this city and would be thrilled to be able to make up a
panel for my window or even a fan light.  Thanks!

Susie
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 17 18:47:29 1997
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X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire
From: Doug Scale <proffire@ebtech.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: fake glass/delivery failure
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:46:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb17.164656.0>
References: <<199702171716.LAA01562@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

len alcamo wrote:

> I don't think it is appropriate to spend bandwidth legitimizing plastic
> stained glass in any way shape or form in this forum. 
> 
> Love and Peace
> 
> Len
> 
> Well said Len.  Lets stick with Stained glass not the cheap imitation plastic.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 04:55:24 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: pattern of Chicago
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 06:49:41 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970116235939.18a74c6e@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Susie;
        Georgia O'Keefe painted a nice skyline kind of picture but I think
it was of New York, but it might give you some ideas.  Meg 

At 09:36 PM 2/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone have, or know where I may find, a pattern for the skyline of
>Chicago?  I LOVE this city and would be thrilled to be able to make up a
>panel for my window or even a fan light.  Thanks!
>
>Susie
>----
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>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 05:28:11 1997
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X-Path: uninet.net!mcastle
From: mcastle@uninet.net (Martin Castle)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Castle Pattern
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:27:33 -0500
Message-ID: <v01540b00af2f5e594835@[206.137.208.16]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I realize this topic came up sometime ago, but I am unable to find it in my
collection of stuff. I am looking for a pattern of a Castle. For the folks,
thanks for all of your help and insight. Martin

Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941

207 382 6207                  207 382 6207

Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
Islesboro Central School      Unity College
PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
Islesboro Maine 04848

207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220

207 734 8159 Fax

email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net

You can't be lost if you don't care where you are.








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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 06:50:22 1997
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From: "Robin Ballard" <rballard@icsp.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: pattern of Chicago
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:44:44 -0600
Message-ID: <14462890602657@chicom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Susie!

I work in Chicago and there are scads of things with the skyline on them
all over the place.  Let me know if you want me to collect some of them for
you.  They're very easy to find on t-shirts, mugs, books, etc.  I might
even be able to find one in a book from the library that I can copy.  I
work right next to Sears Tower and I know they have all kinds of souvenier
stuff in their gift shops, too.

Robin B.

----------
> From: SusieHUs@aol.com
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: pattern of Chicago
> Date: Monday, February 17, 1997 8:36 PM
> 
> Does anyone have, or know where I may find, a pattern for the skyline of
> Chicago?  I LOVE this city and would be thrilled to be able to make up a
> panel for my window or even a fan light.  Thanks!
> 
> Susie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 08:05:07 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castle Pattern
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:59:55 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb17.235955.0>
References: <<v01540b00af2f5e594835@[206.137.208.16]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Martin, I was the one requesting castles also.  Two sites were sent that
have castles.  But since I don't draw they weren't a lot of help to me,
but maybe they will be of use to you.  Here they are: 
 
Castles On The Web      http://fox.nstn.ca/~tmonk/castle/castle.html 
Castles of the World    http://www.castles.org/

Bonnie Clark
fishbait@televar.com 



Martin Castle wrote:

> 
> I realize this topic came up sometime ago, but I am unable to find it in my
> collection of stuff. I am looking for a pattern of a Castle. For the folks,
> thanks for all of your help and insight. Martin
> 
> Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
> 135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
> Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941
> 
> 207 382 6207                  207 382 6207
> 
> Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
> Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
> Islesboro Central School      Unity College
> PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
> Islesboro Maine 04848
> 
> 207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220
> 
> 207 734 8159 Fax
> 
> email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net
> 
> You can't be lost if you don't care where you are.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 08:56:50 1997
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:52:19 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.05219.0>
References: <<1997Feb17.33328.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am more than willing to participate in the Glass Atlas.  However, I
wasn't aware that any specifications had been decided.  Who is going to
make the decisions?  As far as scanning, it was discussed that the only
thing you can do with scanned materiasl is to make it smaller or larger on
the 8 1/2 x 11 or 11 x 14.  Is this going to be hard copy or web site?  PJ
from CA.

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, glasschic wrote:

> Richard LaVal wrote:
> > 
> > Maybe we need to put a deadline on the receiving of designs.... I for one
> > didn't know there was any hurry,
> 
> There is no hurry on sending in the patterns....however if we are to get 
> this thing started....then we DO need to get it started and not wait for 
> someone else to submit patterns before we do, because we want to see 
> what everyone else is submitting.  That can cause a snowball effect and 
> we will end up with no patterns being submitted.
> 
> The best way to submit is an already scanned pattern in jpeg format 
> through email to joyce@bright.net.  However I know hardly anyone has a 
> scanner and I do have scanner equipment and am more than willing to scan 
> from patterns.  The next easy option is to have the pattern copied to an 
> 8.5x11 page or 11x14, or anything else that will accomodate your 
> pattern.  If that is not available to you, again I will accomplish that 
> here, don't let that stop you from submitting your pattern.  The address 
>  to submit paper patterns is
> 	Garden of Glass
> 	501 N. Madriver St.
> 	Bellefontaine, OH  43311
> 
> Please include a small description of your design, your name and date of 
> design and if possible a color photo of the completed work.
> 
> None of this is etched in stone, so please don't let any excuse deter 
> you from submitting your designs.
> 
> Joyce Moran
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 10:42:51 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:15:43 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.21543.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.05219.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

After all the discussion verses putting the Glass Atlas on the web or on
the hard copy.  I would still vote to do the hard copy first and then
work on a web site copy since there appears to be more problems
producing it, and not all of us are computer geeks.  I would also
suggest putting them on the largest size paper possible, so it will
allow for those who have bigger patterns.  I guess this decision should
be made by the person who is doing the producing as it is their
volunteered time and energy.  I don't know how we could all vote anyway.
It is just a matter of voicing our opinions if we happen to read about
the discussions.
Bonnie Clark
fishbait@televar.com
Peggy W. Johnsen wrote:
> 
> I am more than willing to participate in the Glass Atlas.  However, I
> wasn't aware that any specifications had been decided.  Who is going to
> make the decisions?  As far as scanning, it was discussed that the only
> thing you can do with scanned materiasl is to make it smaller or larger on
> the 8 1/2 x 11 or 11 x 14.  Is this going to be hard copy or web site?  PJ
> from CA.
> 
> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, glasschic wrote:
> 
> > Richard LaVal wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe we need to put a deadline on the receiving of designs.... I for one
> > > didn't know there was any hurry,
> >
> > There is no hurry on sending in the patterns....however if we are to get
> > this thing started....then we DO need to get it started and not wait for
> > someone else to submit patterns before we do, because we want to see
> > what everyone else is submitting.  That can cause a snowball effect and
> > we will end up with no patterns being submitted.
> >
> > The best way to submit is an already scanned pattern in jpeg format
> > through email to joyce@bright.net.  However I know hardly anyone has a
> > scanner and I do have scanner equipment and am more than willing to scan
> > from patterns.  The next easy option is to have the pattern copied to an
> > 8.5x11 page or 11x14, or anything else that will accomodate your
> > pattern.  If that is not available to you, again I will accomplish that
> > here, don't let that stop you from submitting your pattern.  The address
> >  to submit paper patterns is
> >       Garden of Glass
> >       501 N. Madriver St.
> >       Bellefontaine, OH  43311
> >
> > Please include a small description of your design, your name and date of
> > design and if possible a color photo of the completed work.
> >
> > None of this is etched in stone, so please don't let any excuse deter
> > you from submitting your designs.
> >
> > Joyce Moran
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 11:27:29 1997
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:25:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.92526.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.21543.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Bonnie Clark wrote:
> 
> After all the discussion verses putting the Glass Atlas on the web or on
> the hard copy.  I would still vote to do the hard copy first and then
> work on a web site copy since there appears to be more problems
> producing it, and not all of us are computer geeks.  I would also
> suggest putting them on the largest size paper possible, so it will
> allow for those who have bigger patterns.  I guess this decision should
> be made by the person who is doing the producing as it is their
> volunteered time and energy.  I don't know how we could all vote anyway.
> It is just a matter of voicing our opinions if we happen to read about
> the discussions.
> Bonnie Clark
> fishbait@televar.com

Bonnie, can we get you to count votes for hard copy versus website?  My 
vote is for website only no published hard copy.  Anyone wants my 
reasons behind this let me know.

Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 15:16:48 1997
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From: WLester380@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:16:18 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.131618.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Rather than a one time shot, I envisioned something a bit more evolvutionary.
 Something that allows each of us to contribute new designs as we develop
them, a growing library of our designs.  With that in mind it would appear
that a hard copy Atlas might not work.  Perhaps getting back to the basics of
what we want to accomplish and why would be in order and then move forward
with an eye on Keeping It Simple...  I for one would like to see the Atlas on
line with the option of downloading patterns or purchasing them for a fee to
cover costs.  The idea of having patterns on line appeals to me since it is
much more efficient.

I suspect that a large number of patterns might not do well in an 8 1/2 X 11
world.  I am struggling with how to contribute my patterns - my smallest
project is 20 X 30 and my largest is 48 X 48.  I do not have copies of my
patterns, just the originals.  None of my patterns is on my computer, yet.
 Until I can figure out how to get them on the computer and I have the time
to get them there the pattern will remain cumbersome.  Shall I make  full
size copies and send them off? 

Sorry, I seem to focusing on the questions and not the answers.
Bill


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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 15:24:12 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castle Pattern
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:19:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.131946.0>
References: <<1997Feb17.235955.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bonnie & Martin,
Here is how you can use pictures (from internet).  Download a couple
that you like from the sites below, import the image into your "photo
program" and choose 'outline' from with in the photo image program. 
Print the outlined images, put tracing paper over the image, and trace
the  lines you want.  Microwarehouse- 800-367-7080 (computer software)
has lots of image and photo software-Adobe Photo Delux-$49.95 would do
the job.  You may already have similar software.  Parts of images can be
combined too.
Enjoy,

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
Bonnie Clark wrote:
> 
> Martin, I was the one requesting castles also.  Two sites were sent that
> have castles.  But since I don't draw they weren't a lot of help to me,
> but maybe they will be of use to you.  Here they are:
> 
> Castles On The Web      http://fox.nstn.ca/~tmonk/castle/castle.html
> Castles of the World    http://www.castles.org/

<<snip>>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 15:33:19 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:28:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.132857.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.92526.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

I am curious, about why only web site??? It would be nice to have a hard
copy for each contibuter (of patterns) , and they could be sold for a
modest price at Stained Glass suppliers.  Fund raiser for ?? IGGA, etc. 
A lot of people are not computer literate even if they may have a
computer, and many do not have internet connections.  My thought would
be both hard copy and web site to allow the widest distribution.  I am
working on the first of two designs that I will donate-(It is a vase). 
Since I am also producing for a show coming up so it will be a while
before they are ready. "Patterns from the glass artists at Bungi.com"
could be a title.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations


glasschic wrote:
> 

> Bonnie, can we get you to count votes for hard copy versus website?  My
> vote is for website only no published hard copy.  Anyone wants my
> reasons behind this let me know.
> 
> Joyce Moran
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 15:58:38 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castle Pattern
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:04:18 +0000
Message-ID: <199702182357.SAA08712@ns.computer.net>
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> Here is how you can use pictures (from internet).  Download a couple
> that you like from the sites below, import the image into your "photo
> program" and choose 'outline' from with in the photo image program. 

You should make careful note of whether the pictures are on a site 
that clearly says the photos are freely downloadable and free of 
copyright.  Otherwise, you're using someone else's copyrighted work, 
even if it doesn't say "copyright so-and-so," etc.  That's no longer 
required under the law.

You might say, "Well, I'm going to *change them!"  Jeff Koons (a 
world-class artist ... well, he gets world-class prices for his work, 
anyway)  created a sculpture based on a snapshot on a postcard he 
liked, was sued and lost ... big time.  Lots o' money.

Just a cautionary note.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 15:58:39 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:04:18 +0000
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> I am curious, about why only web site??? It would be nice to have a hard
> copy for each contibuter (of patterns) , and they could be sold for a
> modest price at Stained Glass suppliers.  

I'm kinda curious that there's been no reaction to the press release 
I passed along this weekend ... someone else proposing something very 
much like the Glass Atlas.

No feedback?

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 16:27:58 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:23:49 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.82349.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.92526.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

glasschic wrote:
> 
> Bonnie Clark wrote:
> >
> > After all the discussion verses putting the Glass Atlas on the web or on
> > the hard copy.  I would still vote to do the hard copy first and then
> > work on a web site copy since there appears to be more problems
> > producing it, and not all of us are computer geeks.  I would also
> > suggest putting them on the largest size paper possible, so it will
> > allow for those who have bigger patterns.  I guess this decision should
> > be made by the person who is doing the producing as it is their
> > volunteered time and energy.  I don't know how we could all vote anyway.
> > It is just a matter of voicing our opinions if we happen to read about
> > the discussions.
> > Bonnie Clark
> > fishbait@televar.com
> 
> Bonnie, can we get you to count votes for hard copy versus website?  My
> vote is for website only no published hard copy.  Anyone wants my
> reasons behind this let me know.
> 
> Joyce Moran

Sure, I would be happy to count all the votes.  Send them to me. Let's
make the deadline for voting on March 1.  I will report the number of
votes the very next day.  Write down hard copy, soft copy or both.  I
will start collecting right now, so get your votes in to me at
fishbait@televar.com  
Bonnie Clark
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 16:45:15 1997
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From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:48:45 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.84845.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.132857.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

I don't understand.

You all are using computers to communicate. Why would you not use
computers to trade designs.

If everyone used the same CAD Program, designs could be shared
electronically.

If someone wanted a hard copy they could print the patterns themselves.
Or if the group wanted a book, you could edit the book and then print
the patterns.

If you use your computers you will be able to transfer designs using
today's technologies not yesterdays.

It does not take a computer geek to understand a CAD program.

And that as you say is our two cents worth.

B. Rgds,

American Bevel, Inc.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 17:08:42 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castle Pattern and Pattern Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:03:10 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970117010505.328771d8@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Lee and everyone;
        I suspect that there are alot of users like me, and that this is
what is causing the discussions re:the atlas of patterns.  What you say
below is "greek" to me, and although I could go out and buy something, and
learn how to use it, I an jealous of the time it would take.  Having a ibm
compatible pc, and between myself and my husband setting up most of the
hardware as well as the software, I know what mega-hours it is to get
everything compatible, set up right, and then use the program.  Then you
discover that it doesn't work right with the hardware one has........ so
although I should probably do something about this ..... it may not be right
away, meanwhile I think that paper copies of the patterns should be
available for those like myself, or for those who don't have computors at
all.....   For ex. I tried to download the demo of glasseye  ... found it
needed windows 95,   they said you could download a win32 that would make
the old windows acceptable.... this so messed up the computor it took us
days to track down all the pieces and delete them!  so then I decided to try
the demo  (what was the other one they reviewed?) and it didn't have Costa
Rica listed so couldn't download it either.  As for printing grafics!!!!!

  Meg


At 06:19 PM 2/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Bonnie & Martin,
>Here is how you can use pictures (from internet).  Download a couple
>that you like from the sites below, import the image into your "photo
>program" and choose 'outline' from with in the photo image program. 
>Print the outlined images, put tracing paper over the image, and trace
>the  lines you want.  Microwarehouse- 800-367-7080 (computer software)
>has lots of image and photo software-Adobe Photo Delux-$49.95 would do
>the job.  You may already have similar software.  Parts of images can be
>combined too.
>Enjoy,
>
>Lee Boe
>Rain-Boe's Creations
>Bonnie Clark wrote:
>> 
>> Martin, I was the one requesting castles also.  Two sites were sent that
>> have castles.  But since I don't draw they weren't a lot of help to me,
>> but maybe they will be of use to you.  Here they are:
>> 
>> Castles On The Web      http://fox.nstn.ca/~tmonk/castle/castle.html
>> Castles of the World    http://www.castles.org/
>
><<snip>>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 17:09:30 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:04:46 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970117010641.379f4a00@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Both ways.... Meg

>Sure, I would be happy to count all the votes.  Send them to me. Let's
>make the deadline for voting on March 1.  I will report the number of
>votes the very next day.  Write down hard copy, soft copy or both.  I
>will start collecting right now, so get your votes in to me at
>fishbait@televar.com  
>Bonnie Clark
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 17:18:49 1997
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From: Livethakly@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:17:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.151740.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-02-18 19:46:33 EST, you write:

<< ab@americanbevel.com (Richard davis Ashoff) >>
<You all are using computers to communicate. Why would you not use
<computers to trade designs.
<If everyone used the same CAD Program, designs could be shared
<electronically.

Personally, I really can't afford another CAD program (glass can be 'spensive
:-) )
And then you need to get everyone to go out and buy the same program? I
really don't think that is pratical. 
One thing that I have noticed about Bungi.com, is how wonderful and sharing
everyone on the list is. I subscribe to a few lists about different subjects,
and I can definately say that this one has the most thoughtful and generous
(time and effort wise) people out of any I've seen. Most specialized lists
are not very tolerant with newcomers or beginners, and I've seen all people
treated with equal consideration. What a breath of fresh air. I guess the
whole purpose of this Atlas is not just for us on the list, but for all
Glassers in general. 
Although, I for one am extremely impressed with the amount of people (big
names as well) that have supplied help and information to others on this
list, I know that there are plenty of us that don't have a clue about
computers (not me personally, of course ;-) HaHa), and yet would love the
opportunity to utilize the fabulous idea.
Sorry, I'm so long winded. I guess my 2 cents came out more like 2 dollars
worth.
Laura
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 17:41:12 1997
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X-Path: fast.net!charles
From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:36:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.163649.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.84845.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard:

Aren't you the person that wrote and copyrighted a CAD program with 
file extensions that specifically prohibits other "foreign" clip art
-AND ANY drawing generated with it can ONLY be used by a 
non-commercial user-in a non-commercial application ?

Under those conditions how can "everyone use the same CAD program"?

Isn't it hypocritical to argue for the free flow of information and 
at the same time build a toll bridge for that information ?

charles

Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> 
> I don't understand.
> 
> If everyone used the same CAD Program, designs could be shared
> electronically.
> 
> American Bevel, Inc.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 17:45:43 1997
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From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:41:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.164150.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.84845.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard:

Aren't you the person that wrote and copyrighted a CAD program with 
file extensions that specifically prohibits other "foreign" clip art
-AND ANY drawing generated with it can ONLY be used by a 
non-commercial user-in a non-commercial application ?

Under those conditions how can "everyone use the same CAD program"?

Isn't it hypocritical to argue for the free flow of information and 
at the same time build a toll bridge for that information ?

Chuck

Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> 
> I don't understand.
> 
> If everyone used the same CAD Program, designs could be shared
> electronically.
> 
> American Bevel, Inc.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 18:17:17 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:15:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.161516.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.163649.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Charles wrote:
> 
> Richard:
> 
> Aren't you the person that wrote and copyrighted a CAD program with
> file extensions that specifically prohibits other "foreign" clip art
> -AND ANY drawing generated with it can ONLY be used by a
> non-commercial user-in a non-commercial application ?
> 
> Under those conditions how can "everyone use the same CAD program"?
> 
> Isn't it hypocritical to argue for the free flow of information and
> at the same time build a toll bridge for that information ?
> 
> charles


and I personally am not willing to redraw everyone's designs to put into 
that CAD program when I can scan the drawing in a matter of 15 minutes 
or so.  Then I don't have any arguments about artistic 
representation...on how I changed this line or that one...are you 
willing to redraw everyone's designs?  I'm perfectly willing however to 
change any drawing into any format available to everyone....pcx, jpg, 
gif, pdf or whatever....but not a private format that is only available 
to a few.  just my humble opinion.

Joyce
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 18:26:51 1997
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From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:30:22 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.103022.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.163649.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Charles:

American Bevel, Inc.; main purpose for writing and copyrighting our
"Designer" CAD program is to sell American Bevel Clusters. We will
prohibit any other manufacture of bevel clusters, the use of our file
extensions. We will prohibit anyone who makes clip art or patterns for
resale, the use of our file extensions.

An end/user can use "Designer" to help sell Stained Glass for themselves
or their studio. We do not want anyone using the "Designer" CAD program
in itself for profit. Simply stated; "Designer" is mente to help the
end/user to sell and produce Stained Glass, not clip art or patterns for
resale.

BUT, anyone who wishes to share information, clip art, and/or patterns
for free; we will help to the best of our ability. 

As stated above our propose is to sell American Bevel Clusters; it is
also our belief that our "Designer" CAD program is good for the
industry. 

Some of our distributors are selling the "Designer" CAD program for
$80.00. If you think anyone is getting rich on this CAD program; well I
won't go there. 

It was my thought that this program would help people sell Stained
Glass. You do not need to use bevel clusters to use the program.

American Bevel, Inc. is trying to give something back to the Stained
Glass Industry. Our "Designer" CAD program is a work in progress. It is
just a foundation. Something everyone can build on, it is mente to help
everyone. It is to bad some people do not recognize the effort it took
to bring such a product to the industry.

I hope this clarifies my position on our copyright and our propose.

B. Rgds,

Richard Ashoff
American Bevel, Inc.


> 
> Richard:
> 
> Aren't you the person that wrote and copyrighted a CAD program with
> file extensions that specifically prohibits other "foreign" clip art
> -AND ANY drawing generated with it can ONLY be used by a
> non-commercial user-in a non-commercial application ?
> 
> Under those conditions how can "everyone use the same CAD program"?
> 
> Isn't it hypocritical to argue for the free flow of information and
> at the same time build a toll bridge for that information ?
> 
> charles
> 
> Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> >
> > I don't understand.
> >
> > If everyone used the same CAD Program, designs could be shared
> > electronically.
> >
> > American Bevel, Inc.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 18:28:11 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:46:48 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.44648.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.05219.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd like to be able to purchase a hard copy and maybe also on a web site.
If that counts for anything. Thanks
Mary



On Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:15:43 -0800 Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
writes:
>After all the discussion verses putting the Glass Atlas on the web or 
>on
>the hard copy.  I would still vote to do the hard copy first and then
>work on a web site copy since there appears to be more problems
>producing it, and not all of us are computer geeks.  I would also
>suggest putting them on the largest size paper possible, so it will
>allow for those who have bigger patterns.  I guess this decision 
>should
>be made by the person who is doing the producing as it is their
>volunteered time and energy.  I don't know how we could all vote 
>anyway.
>It is just a matter of voicing our opinions if we happen to read about
>the discussions.
>Bonnie Clark
>fishbait@televar.com
>Peggy W. Johnsen wrote:
>> 
>> I am more than willing to participate in the Glass Atlas.  However, 
>I
>> wasn't aware that any specifications had been decided.  Who is going 
>to
>> make the decisions?  As far as scanning, it was discussed that the 
>only
>> thing you can do with scanned materiasl is to make it smaller or 
>larger on
>> the 8 1/2 x 11 or 11 x 14.  Is this going to be hard copy or web 
>site?  PJ
>> from CA.
>> 
>> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, glasschic wrote:
>> 
>> > Richard LaVal wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Maybe we need to put a deadline on the receiving of designs.... 
>I for one
>> > > didn't know there was any hurry,
>> >
>> > There is no hurry on sending in the patterns....however if we are 
>to get
>> > this thing started....then we DO need to get it started and not 
>wait for
>> > someone else to submit patterns before we do, because we want to 
>see
>> > what everyone else is submitting.  That can cause a snowball 
>effect and
>> > we will end up with no patterns being submitted.
>> >
>> > The best way to submit is an already scanned pattern in jpeg 
>format
>> > through email to joyce@bright.net.  However I know hardly anyone 
>has a
>> > scanner and I do have scanner equipment and am more than willing 
>to scan
>> > from patterns.  The next easy option is to have the pattern copied 
>to an
>> > 8.5x11 page or 11x14, or anything else that will accomodate your
>> > pattern.  If that is not available to you, again I will accomplish 
>that
>> > here, don't let that stop you from submitting your pattern.  The 
>address
>> >  to submit paper patterns is
>> >       Garden of Glass
>> >       501 N. Madriver St.
>> >       Bellefontaine, OH  43311
>> >
>> > Please include a small description of your design, your name and 
>date of
>> > design and if possible a color photo of the completed work.
>> >
>> > None of this is etched in stone, so please don't let any excuse 
>deter
>> > you from submitting your designs.
>> >
>> > Joyce Moran
>> > ----
>> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>> >
>> 
>> ----
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>----
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>
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 19:02:53 1997
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X-Path: americanbevel.com!ab
From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:06:29 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.11629.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.161516.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

American Bevel "Designer" can export in all formats...pcx, jpg,gif, and
many more. You can also scan any drawing.

It is not our suggestion to scan or import files with extensions other
than the main extension for the program that you are using. 

If everyone draws their own it would go much faster.



glasschic wrote:
 
> and I personally am not willing to redraw everyone's designs to put into
> that CAD program when I can scan the drawing in a matter of 15 minutes
> or so.  Then I don't have any arguments about artistic
> representation...on how I changed this line or that one...are you
> willing to redraw everyone's designs?  I'm perfectly willing however to
> change any drawing into any format available to everyone....pcx, jpg,
> gif, pdf or whatever....but not a private format that is only available
> to a few.  just my humble opinion.
> 
> Joyce
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 19:10:12 1997
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X-Path: arn.net!loveta
From: "Loveta Elmore" <loveta@arn.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re:American Bevel  Software Controversy
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:08:22 -0600
Message-ID: <199702190308.VAA04233@arnet.arn.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'm not for sure but I think Charles and Richard are talking about two
different things.  I think Charles is talking about Glass Eye where it has
it's own file format, and you can't export it and use it in another cad
program.  The AB program can be exported and used in any program that
accepts that file format.  I use both programs and they are totally
different.  Depending on your current needs, they both are remarkable.

Hope this is helpful
Loveta
----------
> From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
> Date: Tuesday, February 18, 1997 8:30 PM
> 
> Charles:
> 
> American Bevel, Inc.; main purpose for writing and copyrighting our
> "Designer" CAD program is to sell American Bevel Clusters. We will
> prohibit any other manufacture of bevel clusters, the use of our file
> extensions. We will prohibit anyone who makes clip art or patterns for
> resale, the use of our file extensions.
> 
> An end/user can use "Designer" to help sell Stained Glass for themselves
> or their studio. We do not want anyone using the "Designer" CAD program
> in itself for profit. Simply stated; "Designer" is mente to help the
> end/user to sell and produce Stained Glass, not clip art or patterns for
> resale.
> 
> BUT, anyone who wishes to share information, clip art, and/or patterns
> for free; we will help to the best of our ability. 
> 
> As stated above our propose is to sell American Bevel Clusters; it is
> also our belief that our "Designer" CAD program is good for the
> industry. 
> 
> Some of our distributors are selling the "Designer" CAD program for
> $80.00. If you think anyone is getting rich on this CAD program; well I
> won't go there. 
> 
> It was my thought that this program would help people sell Stained
> Glass. You do not need to use bevel clusters to use the program.
> 
> American Bevel, Inc. is trying to give something back to the Stained
> Glass Industry. Our "Designer" CAD program is a work in progress. It is
> just a foundation. Something everyone can build on, it is mente to help
> everyone. It is to bad some people do not recognize the effort it took
> to bring such a product to the industry.
> 
> I hope this clarifies my position on our copyright and our propose.
> 
> B. Rgds,
> 
> Richard Ashoff
> American Bevel, Inc.
> 
> 
> > 
> > Richard:
> > 
> > Aren't you the person that wrote and copyrighted a CAD program with
> > file extensions that specifically prohibits other "foreign" clip art
> > -AND ANY drawing generated with it can ONLY be used by a
> > non-commercial user-in a non-commercial application ?
> > 
> > Under those conditions how can "everyone use the same CAD program"?
> > 
> > Isn't it hypocritical to argue for the free flow of information and
> > at the same time build a toll bridge for that information ?
> > 
> > charles
> > 
> > Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't understand.
> > >
> > > If everyone used the same CAD Program, designs could be shared
> > > electronically.
> > >
> > > American Bevel, Inc.
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 19:10:59 1997
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3
From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha )
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:10:34 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702190310.VAA28763@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You wrote: 
>
>I don't understand.
>
>You all are using computers to communicate. Why would you not use
>computers to trade designs.
>
>If everyone used the same CAD Program, designs could be shared
>electronically.
>
>If someone wanted a hard copy they could print the patterns 
themselves.
>Or if the group wanted a book, you could edit the book and then print
>the patterns.
>
>If you use your computers you will be able to transfer designs using
>today's technologies not yesterdays.
>
>It does not take a computer geek to understand a CAD program.
>
>And that as you say is our two cents worth.
>
>
All it does take is anywhere from $400.00 to $3000.00 or more and 
getting a large group of people to agree to use compatable format 
software. This is not to mention the hundreds of hours it takes to get 
even passably proficient at the more flexible cad programs ( vector 
based. ) This all adds up to quite a commitment.

ms

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 19:27:46 1997
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X-Path: arn.net!loveta
From: "Loveta Elmore" <loveta@arn.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Vector Forma
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:25:52 -0600
Message-ID: <199702190325.VAA06891@arnet.arn.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Here I go again.  You don't have to have a vector format to do the glass
atlas. Everyone who is in the group now has access to downloading and
uploading the designs, and it doesn't cost anything.  There is so much
available to help you with this and it is simple as long as someone
instructs you.  I know about spending the unendless hours (and money)
trying to figure something out and then someone shares with you their
knowledge and a nightmare is solved. 

 I think this is such a neat idea and everyone would have  so much fun with
it.  

Tell me to get lost if you want to!!!
Loveta

----------
> From: Michael Smoucha  <izzy3@ix.netcom.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
> Date: Tuesday, February 18, 1997 9:10 PM
> 
> You wrote: 
> >
> >I don't understand.
> >
> >You all are using computers to communicate. Why would you not use
> >computers to trade designs.
> >
> >If everyone used the same CAD Program, designs could be shared
> >electronically.
> >
> >If someone wanted a hard copy they could print the patterns 
> themselves.
> >Or if the group wanted a book, you could edit the book and then print
> >the patterns.
> >
> >If you use your computers you will be able to transfer designs using
> >today's technologies not yesterdays.
> >
> >It does not take a computer geek to understand a CAD program.
> >
> >And that as you say is our two cents worth.
> >
> >
> All it does take is anywhere from $400.00 to $3000.00 or more and 
> getting a large group of people to agree to use compatable format 
> software. This is not to mention the hundreds of hours it takes to get 
> even passably proficient at the more flexible cad programs ( vector 
> based. ) This all adds up to quite a commitment.
> 
> ms
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 19:43:49 1997
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X-Path: tiac.net!phil7
From: phil7 <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:25:02 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.14252.0>
References: <<199702182357.SAA08720@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Albert,

The press release related to one word, "profit".  

The atlas began as a for fun, pleasure, and most important, learning 
from other artists, both more skilled, and less skilled. It captured the 
desire to simply contribute to a group effort for no financial gain.  
Now it looks like like the professionals are looking for a gain. Nothing 
wrong with that, but not for me.

Sign me,

Little Bob Snooks

Little Bob Snooks was
fond of his books,
And loved by his usher 
and master;

But naughty Jack Spry, he
got a black eye,
And carried his nose in
a plaster.


Phil7





Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > I am curious, about why only web site??? It would be nice to have a hard
> > copy for each contibuter (of patterns) , and they could be sold for a
> > modest price at Stained Glass suppliers.
> 
> I'm kinda curious that there's been no reaction to the press release
> I passed along this weekend ... someone else proposing something very
> much like the Glass Atlas.
> 
> No feedback?
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 20:18:00 1997
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X-Path: arn.net!loveta
From: "Loveta Elmore" <loveta@arn.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Answer to large designs
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:15:47 -0600
Message-ID: <199702190416.WAA14085@arnet.arn.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I understand what you mean about redoing a large design to  8x11.  But you
can take a very large design to an architect or blueprint store and they
can reduce it to 8x11, and it doesn't cost very much.
and then it can be scanned it as usual.

Loveta
----------
> From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
> Date: Tuesday, February 18, 1997 8:15 PM
> 
> Charles wrote:
> > 
> > Richard:
> > 
> > Aren't you the person that wrote and copyrighted a CAD program with
> > file extensions that specifically prohibits other "foreign" clip art
> > -AND ANY drawing generated with it can ONLY be used by a
> > non-commercial user-in a non-commercial application ?
> > 
> > Under those conditions how can "everyone use the same CAD program"?
> > 
> > Isn't it hypocritical to argue for the free flow of information and
> > at the same time build a toll bridge for that information ?
> > 
> > charles
> 
> 
> and I personally am not willing to redraw everyone's designs to put into 
> that CAD program when I can scan the drawing in a matter of 15 minutes 
> or so.  Then I don't have any arguments about artistic 
> representation...on how I changed this line or that one...are you 
> willing to redraw everyone's designs?  I'm perfectly willing however to 
> change any drawing into any format available to everyone....pcx, jpg, 
> gif, pdf or whatever....but not a private format that is only available 
> to a few.  just my humble opinion.
> 
> Joyce
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 20:24:59 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!SUGR5
From: SUGR5@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 23:24:26 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.182426.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-02-18 19:46:33 EST, you write:

<< You all are using computers to communicate. Why would you not use
 computers to trade designs.
  >>
<<If everyone used the same CAD Program, designs could be shared
<<electronically.














































                                                                         <<It
does not take a computer geek to understand a CAD program.

But, everyone doesn't use the same CAD program.  I don't even own a CAD
program.  Besides, I love books and I can think of nothing better than having
a "real" book with patterns from the people I have 'met' here.

My .02
Susan

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 20:44:50 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:47:16 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.134716.0>
References: <<1997Feb16.121550.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Warner-Crivellaro wrote:
Hi Elenie,
	I have your latest sales flyer and will check out these 
products.  Thanks for replying.   T. in Montana
> Phil,
> We carry an Embedded Tinned Braided Wire Cat. No. #1748-03, 10' for
> $2.82
> ($2.48 each if purchasing 6 or more). It is approximatly 1/16" x 1/8" x
> 10' and flat on the face sides.
> 
> It is very flexible in all directions until touched with a hot iron and
> solder (with flux). It is great for curved surfaces such as the
> irregular bottom of a lampshade although it will work inside a panel for
> reinforcement.
> 
> A thinner reinforcement between pieces of glass is: Copper Restrip 5/32"
> x 25' Cat. No. #1835-25 $3.25 This is a hardned copper that will resist
> bending side to side. Our phone number is 1-800-523-4242. Let me know if
> you have any more questions. Thank you.
> 
> Elenie
> Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass
> http://www.warner-criv.com


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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 20:45:17 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:55:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.135553.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.82349.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bonnie,
	I would like a hard copy.  And, as I told Joyce, I will be glad 
to pay for the cost of someone's time, the copies and the postage.  I 
would also like soft copy for ease of update once I get the hang of how 
to download the bloody things.  I can't even get Spectrum's free 
patterns to my printer.  Oh woe is me -- T. in Montana

> Sure, I would be happy to count all the votes.  Send them to me. Let's
> make the deadline for voting on March 1.  I will report the number of
> votes the very next day.  Write down hard copy, soft copy or both.  I
> will start collecting right now, so get your votes in to me at
> fishbait@televar.com
> Bonnie Clark

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 20:45:21 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:53:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.135328.0>
References: <<199702182357.SAA08720@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hi Albert,
	There are a couple of reasons I didn't respond.  First and 
foremost is that someone tried to send us a rather large file and all 
our mail got jammed up.
	Second, it doesn't matter as much to me what others are doing 
about sharing patterns mainly because they seem like such strangers as 
opposed to the folks on this list.  And, I'd have to purchase the 
designs you mentioned, rather than browse and help myself to what will 
be like found treasures (translate that as: free).  T. in Montana

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > I am curious, about why only web site??? It would be nice to have a hard
> > copy for each contibuter (of patterns) , and they could be sold for a
> > modest price at Stained Glass suppliers.
> 
> I'm kinda curious that there's been no reaction to the press release
> I passed along this weekend ... someone else proposing something very
> much like the Glass Atlas.
> 
> No feedback?
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists


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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 20:45:25 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:34:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.133431.0>
References: <<1997Feb15.153441.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hi Joyce,
	I would like to know how to order the reinforcing strips from 
you, how much and how would you like payment.  Give me a holler.  And, 
yes we are in the boonies, as you say.  Way out in the boonies.
	Thanks,  T. in Montana

> I sell and use a product called Venture Reinforcing Strip.  It fits in
> between the pieces of a large copper foil panel and seems to reinforce
> quite well.  The copper itself is very rigid in one direction, but will
> bend in the other direction (around the pieces).  I use it all the time
> on anything more than 2 sq ft.  I have used the mesh stuff also on the
> perimeter of an item and like it too.  It seems to be a bit more
> flexible around corners.  Hope it's available out in the outer regions
> of civilization, where you seem to be.  (Just couldn't resist, but
> refrained from calling it the "boonies")
> 
> Joyce Moran


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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 20:45:52 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:43:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.134347.0>
References: <<1997Feb16.153339.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hi Robin,
	Thanks a bunch!  I'll give your source a try, and along with 
what Joyce has to offer, I should have it made for reinforcments.  
Thanks again -- T. in Montana

Robin Ballard wrote:
> 
> Hi Phil,
> 
> The copper braid I use is called Flex-Bar.  It is tinned copper braid
> that (probably the same stuff Mike Savad uses) and really increases the
> strength on a project because all the little holes in the braid fill
> with solder and really become quite strong.  I sort of uses a lot of
> solder because of that, but I use it for alot of things now, including
> taking the place of copper wire to reinforce the outside of some
> projects.  I like it much better because it easily conforms to any
> irregular shape.  No more fighting with trying to get copper wire around
> a goofy curve!
> 
> I ordered it directly from the guy who makes it.  He's in Missouri.
> He'll sell it to you in any amount you want and he'll UPS it to you.
> His info is:
> 
> Parkie's Products
> Springfield, Missouri
> 417-869-6950
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Robin B.


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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 21:10:34 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "fake" stained glass
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:09:22 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.19922.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

<< If she  wouldn't have done that we would have never taken REAL stained
glass classes.  >>

Funny - I did stuff with Gallery Glass before "real" glass, too.  However, I
didn't like the way it looked and wanted to do the real thing even more.
 Barbara
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 21:16:52 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: cutting & Light box
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:15:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.191513.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd love to get the specs for your lightbox.  Thanks for offering.

Barbara Fernandez
Breckenridge Glass Studio
608 Steamboat Road
Naperville, IL 60565-5328
630 983-7271
BarbaraBGS@aol.com
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 21:25:59 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: fusing glass
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:24:14 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.192414.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

<< found a beautiful scap of black irr. glass and not seen it anywhere else.
>>

Oops!  I should have mentioned that you can "save" your irridescence if you
cover it with a piece of clear.  I've done this on some red irid I dearly
love.  Actually, I think it turns out better than dichro on red.  Then you
can use your black irid.  Remember though if the two layers would be too
thick, ie for jewelry, be sure to use thin clear.  Barbara

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 22:05:08 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:01:28 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.14128.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Ok, folks in case you missed the message in among all the other
stuff I am collecting the votes on the Glass Atlas.  The deadline for
receiving you vote is March 1. Indicate whether you vote for producing a
hard copy (book version), soft copy(computer download), or both.  This
will be much easier if you will write hard, soft or both so I don't have
to read between all the lines to figure out what it is that you are
voting for.  Place the words Glass Atlas Vote on you message line too. 
All three choices are running neck and neck at the moment with ten total
votes received so far.   Please send your votes to me at
fishbait@televar.com
Bonnie Clark
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 22:06:49 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas  vote
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 01:02:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.20211.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.82349.0>>
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Hi Bonnie,

I vote for both electronic and hard copy publishing.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 18 22:36:57 1997
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From: Medic <drink@softcom.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:38:49 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb18.143849.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.14128.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Bonnie Clark wrote:
> 
> Ok, folks in case you missed the message in among all the other
> stuff I am collecting the votes on the Glass Atlas.  The deadline for
> receiving you vote is March 1. Indicate whether you vote for producing a
> hard copy (book version), soft copy(computer download), or both.  This
> will be much easier if you will write hard, soft or both so I don't have
> to read between all the lines to figure out what it is that you are
> voting for.  Place the words Glass Atlas Vote on you message line too.
> All three choices are running neck and neck at the moment with ten total
> votes received so far.   Please send your votes to me at
> fishbait@televar.com
> Bonnie Clark
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


I vote for both electronic and print also.  How about 3.5" Floppy disc?

-- 
		drink@softcom.net
"Most people are as happy as they let themselves be."
		Abraham Lincoln
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 03:03:54 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 06:09:43 +0000
Message-ID: <199702191103.GAA03418@ns.computer.net>
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> The press release related to one word, "profit".  

Ah, ha!  Thanks.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 03:04:29 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castle Pattern and Pattern Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 06:09:43 +0000
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> hardware as well as the software, I know what mega-hours it is to get
> everything compatible, set up right, and then use the program.  Then you
> discover that it doesn't work right with the hardware one has

Windows95 solves all that.  I was leery of it at first, but am 
convinced now.  If you install a new program, piece of hardware, 
etc., it's all pretty seamless and easy.  And it's going to get 
easier.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 04:05:25 1997
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X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz
From: llutz <llutz@tpgi.com.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:35:43 +1100
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.83543.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.82349.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> > vote is for website only no published hard copy.  Anyone wants my
> > reasons behind this let me know.
> >
> > Joyce Moran
I have to say I prefer website only- I have been monitoring the
discussion but am in the middle of getting a magazine published (nothing
to do with SG). I am more interested in the ideas generated- not scaled
drawings. I do have a couple of CAD programs, scanner etc but basically
draw my things from scratch on a drafting board (I used to be a
professional engineer- pre CAD software) and find pencil & paper easier
to stand back and look at. I don't like straight lines either and find
them easier to do on a piece of paper- 

Althea & Larry in Oz
mailto:llutz@tpgi.com.au
http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/llutz/

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 04:47:10 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:45:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.24512.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.133431.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Phil Taylor wrote:
> 
> Hi Joyce,
>         I would like to know how to order the reinforcing strips from
> you, how much and how would you like payment.  Give me a holler.  And,
> yes we are in the boonies, as you say.  Way out in the boonies.
>         Thanks,  T. in Montana

Need your address again.  They run $4.19 for 25 ft.  You might want to 
buy more than one, unless you think you won't like it.  And shipping 
should be a couple dollars - I will figure that one out when you tell me 
exactly how many you want...kinda heavy...but not too bad.  I do take 
Visa Mastercard and Discover, or you can mail a check.  I will give you 
an exact total when I hear back from you.  Thanks!

Joyce
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 05:05:40 1997
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X-Path: cenebank.nl!mstreng
From: Martin Streng <mstreng@cenebank.nl>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:57:46 +0100
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970219125746.0066ce80@solair1.inter.nl.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Looking at the press-release Albert submitted to us, and listening in on the
discussion, i tend to go for the soft-copy version.
Reasons:
- a hard-copy version =3D publishing a book. Publishing means hard work,
consumes lots of time, poses all sorts of conversion- and representation
problems. But most important: it doesn=B4t add anything to the existing
pattern-books. When we are looking for this kind of publishing we better
send our patterns to the company Albert described and get paid for it.
- we are all connected to the web. By my knowledge you do not need special
tools or programs to download pictures in JPG or GIF format. After
downloading you can print them. Putting them ON the web in this format could
be a problem, but that could be solved by the person responsible for putting
the pictures on the web. BTW, i think these problems are nothing compared to
the problems creating and printing a book.
- we are all creative persons. I do not want this Atlas so i can download a
pattern, size it and build a Glass out of it. I want these patterns to
inspire me, to adapt them into something *I* like.=20
- I would like, for the same reason, some comment to go with the patterns:
who made it, why, what are special points of intrest, what "construction"
techniques where used and so on. Making it more then just another pattern
book. Remember the discussion on the kidney-glass? Or Elisabeths humpback
glass?=20
- and, in addition to our bungi-group, add e-mail adresses or some other
means to make contact with the creator of a pattern.
- using soft-copy also makes it possible to let it *grow*. A book is very
static. I sure would like to remove a copy of my own pattern if i have a
better one. Or add some info if i think necessary. Or add another pattern.
All this can=B4t be done in a book-shape.

=20

Martin Streng

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 05:17:30 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:48:32 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.154832.0>
References: <<1997Feb16.121550.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I just recieved your new catalog and could not find pre tinned wire in
it. Do you carry this and if so what is the price? Thanks and you have a
great catalog.
Mary
diamonds@juno.com




On Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:47:16 -0700 Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
writes:
>Warner-Crivellaro wrote:
>Hi Elenie,
>	I have your latest sales flyer and will check out these 
>products.  Thanks for replying.   T. in Montana
>> Phil,
>> We carry an Embedded Tinned Braided Wire Cat. No. #1748-03, 10' for
>> $2.82
>> ($2.48 each if purchasing 6 or more). It is approximatly 1/16" x 
>1/8" x
>> 10' and flat on the face sides.
>> 
>> It is very flexible in all directions until touched with a hot iron 
>and
>> solder (with flux). It is great for curved surfaces such as the
>> irregular bottom of a lampshade although it will work inside a panel 
>for
>> reinforcement.
>> 
>> A thinner reinforcement between pieces of glass is: Copper Restrip 
>5/32"
>> x 25' Cat. No. #1835-25 $3.25 This is a hardned copper that will 
>resist
>> bending side to side. Our phone number is 1-800-523-4242. Let me 
>know if
>> you have any more questions. Thank you.
>> 
>> Elenie
>> Warner-Crivellaro Stained Glass
>> http://www.warner-criv.com
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 05:46:09 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:52:14 +0000
Message-ID: <199702191345.IAA09360@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


> - a hard-copy version =3D publishing a book. Publishing means hard work,

Having been a publisher for the past 25 years and since I am now 
doing quite a bit of design work ... *another kind of publishing, 
after all ... I have to take issue with your suggestion, Martin, that 
3-D hardcopy publishing is more work than preparing anything for the 
web.  Take a look, for example at the 60-page Sources Guide that I 
just finished -- http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm -- and see 
if you can figure out how many hours that took.  That was hard work 
... about three months' worth of 6-hour days, on average, most of it 
done between 4-9 a.m. or 6-11 p.m. because it was done for free.

And I have yet to even *start the printed-on-paper version! <sigh>

I don't think anyone here has any idea how much work Joyce Moran has 
volunteered to do ... and she's not the only one.  If she can pull 
together the Glass Atlas you're all so excited about and make it 
workable, useful, useable, keep it constantly updated, deal with 
those who have trouble downloading it, who have problems printing 
what they *have downloaded, are unhappy with the quality of what they 
downloaded and printed out (pixilated images aren't going to be very 
helpful, for example), then my hat (and I do wear one, having not as 
much hair as I used to have) will be off to her and all of the other 
volunteers on the Glass Atlas project.

Someone here volunteered me for this and I said that my plate was 
full ... and it is ... but I admire what Joyce and the rest of you 
are trying to do, because I am a firm believer in the sharing of 
information among artists and craftspeople.  That doesn't mean that 
dealing with the inherent problems will be easy (the technical 
difficulties are easily overcome; the very human-ness of the humans, 
however, is another question).  I'm no angel myself, no paragon of 
virtue, believe me.  I'm as human as the next person, meaning 
fallible, at times a curmudgeon, sometimes a full-blown grouch, but I 
give 20-30 hours a week to the Guild's projects because I believe in 
that kind of sharing.  If I had another 20-30 hours, I'd donate it to 
this project, but I gotta spend *part of my life putting bread on the 
table ... which means I have to profit on my time and talents at some 
point along the way.

And profit's not a dirty word.  And those who make a profit aren't 
our enemies.  If any of those companies whose products you buy to 
create the works of art and craft that you so much enjoy creating and 
that give pleasure to those who buy them from you, etc., weren't 
making a profit, they wouldn't be in business and you wouldn't have 
access to the supplies you need to support your "habit."  Spectrum 
doesn't make a profit, there's no more Spectrum glass.  If you're 
running a studio and you don't make a profit, you'll be pumping gas 
for someone else faster than you can say, "Regular or Ethyl?"

Albert


Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 05:59:32 1997
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X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: Glass Atlas
Date:         Wed, 19 Feb 97 08:45:29 EST
Message-ID:   <970219.085921.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<1997Feb18.135553.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I've missed some of the messages due to the flu, however I think somewhere
in there was a volunteer to scan patterns and put them on a web site.  I
don't recall seeing a volunteer to put together books.  I'd prefer a
web site myself.  Graphics in .gif or .jpeg form are SOOO common on the
web that most of us have experience getting them.  If you are still
struggling with the technology, I'm sure if you told us what software
you are using, some kind soul would be able to help you.  At the least,
if you are using Netscape and the picture comes up on your screen, you can
print from Netscape.  (You can save as .gif or .jpeg as well, load into
Netscape off line and print then, too, if time on line is at a preium).
If you have L-view (downloadable from the Web), you can take .gif's and
.jpeg's and turn them into bitmaps (.bmp) that can be loaded into your
Paint program and manipulated.  (Okay, I don't know from Mac's.)  This
is with common PC software. (Frankly, I do a print off and manipulate
with pencil and eraser, myself.)
Yeah, I have some suncatcher designs I could contribute, but I'm not
sure I'd BUY a book of designs.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 06:02:08 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castle Pattern and Pattern Atlas
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:57:05 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970117015609.2cb7fb1a@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Albert,
        I have been leery too, plus a couple of friends said there were lots
of bugs in the first release.  So I have been waiting for the next one.
Also need a new harddrive as ours are almost full.  Do you know if one could
run with a dos menu and either choose to start win 95 or win 3.1 and so have
the best of both worlds for awhile while switching?  Meg

At 06:09 AM 2/19/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> hardware as well as the software, I know what mega-hours it is to get
>> everything compatible, set up right, and then use the program.  Then you
>> discover that it doesn't work right with the hardware one has
>
>Windows95 solves all that.  I was leery of it at first, but am 
>convinced now.  If you install a new program, piece of hardware, 
>etc., it's all pretty seamless and easy.  And it's going to get 
>easier.
>
>Albert
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>International Guild of Glass Artists
>A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 06:02:13 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:57:02 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970117015606.2cb74f70@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BOTH.....I think I was one who erred in burying my vote.  In case you didn't
see it, it  this was it.

At 10:01 PM 2/18/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Ok, folks in case you missed the message in among all the other
>stuff I am collecting the votes on the Glass Atlas.  The deadline for
>receiving you vote is March 1. Indicate whether you vote for producing a
>hard copy (book version), soft copy(computer download), or both.  This
>will be much easier if you will write hard, soft or both so I don't have
>to read between all the lines to figure out what it is that you are
>voting for.  Place the words Glass Atlas Vote on you message line too. 
>All three choices are running neck and neck at the moment with ten total
>votes received so far.   Please send your votes to me at
>fishbait@televar.com
>Bonnie Clark
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 07:34:39 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Reaction to Albert's press release posting
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:33:31 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.153331.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>I'm kinda curious that there's been no reaction to the press release 
>I passed along this weekend ... someone else proposing something very 
>much like the Glass Atlas.
>
>No feedback?
>
>Albert
>

Albert, .....  Initially, I saw it as yet another way to let someone else
get their hands into my pocket.  You see, at Summit Stained Glass, we do our
own cartoons and designs, some computer aided, but mostly freehand.  So, I'm
not interested in subscribing to a service that wants to put a royalty on my
work when I generally share it freely with others anyway.  

BUT, when you look at the efforts of our "volunteers" involved in the Glass
Atlas, you have to wonder just how many resources they can commit, just how
many supplies they can purchase before this thing snowballs into a real
money pit.  At some point in time, we're going to have to consider funding
and I haven't seen a lot of discussion on this.  Our "volunteers" are a very
gracious lot, but we have to consider their time and expenses and figure out
a way to maintain this thing once it's done.  If it's freely accessible on
the web, who maintains it and how are the associated expenses covered.  If
it's put into hardcopy and only accessible by request, then you can place a
charge on it to insure that it does not become a burden.

Albert, I agree with your previous posting ....."profit is not a bad word".
But, it WOULD be too bad if we didn't look at some projected figures on
revenues and expenses for this Glass Atlas project before we go running off
thinking we're going to get this great sharing of info for nothing.  We need
to at least make sure our "volunteers" are willing to become "stewards".

Bonnie, I saw your posting asking for a vote, but maybe it's premature to
take a vote at this time.  I don't think we have looked at all the parameters.

Come on, guys ....... tell me how we're going to fund this thing and convice
me that time and expenses for those doing the grunt work are going to be
taken care of.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 08:29:39 1997
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:25:30 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.02530.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.14128.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bonnie:  I vote for both hardcopy and electronic copy.  PJ from CA.

On Tue, 18 Feb 1997, Bonnie Clark wrote:

> Ok, folks in case you missed the message in among all the other
> stuff I am collecting the votes on the Glass Atlas.  The deadline for
> receiving you vote is March 1. Indicate whether you vote for producing a
> hard copy (book version), soft copy(computer download), or both.  This
> will be much easier if you will write hard, soft or both so I don't have
> to read between all the lines to figure out what it is that you are
> voting for.  Place the words Glass Atlas Vote on you message line too. 
> All three choices are running neck and neck at the moment with ten total
> votes received so far.   Please send your votes to me at
> fishbait@televar.com
> Bonnie Clark
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 08:42:11 1997
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X-Path: fast.net!charles
From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Win 3.1 & Win95
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:38:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.73822.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970117015609.2cb7fb1a@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard:

I used System Commander to switch between Win 3.1 and Win95 on the same
machine. It is an inexpensive program available anywhere.

charles

Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
>Do you know if one could run with a dos menu and either choose to 
>start win 95 or win 3.1 and so have the best of both worlds for 
>awhile while switching?  Meg
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 08:50:29 1997
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Eye Software
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:46:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.6469.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.11629.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Richard,

I am in the process of deciding which software package to buy, and would
like clarification on the the msg below-

If I understand correctly-  If I create a pattern in "Glass Eye" I can
export the design in several different format extensions-i.e. PCX, JPEG,
ETC.  But the program is unable to read and manipulate any other format
than the Glass Eye format. i.e. a design I created in Corel Draw, one
that I have scanned into the computer from one of my drawings, and it
cannot read and use a piece of 'clip art' Is this correct??? Or import
part of a 3D image created in one of my other CAD programs.  Last
Question-are you planing to add on a 3D modeling 'plug in' for the Glass
Eye program.  (I do a lot of boxes, vases, candle holders, etc) and
would like to work in 3 dimentions.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> 
> American Bevel "Designer" can export in all formats...pcx, jpg,gif, and
> many more. You can also scan any drawing.
> 
> It is not our suggestion to scan or import files with extensions other
> than the main extension for the program that you are using.
>>>>snip>>>>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 08:53:55 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Reaction to Albert's press release posting (fwd)
Date:         Wed, 19 Feb 97 11:49:19 EST
Message-ID:   <970219.115329.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

      Stuff snipped from the original message...my mailer's kind of funny
Anyway, Mike, we could get together and send the volunteers a case of
jolt cola ;-}
My sig file will go here...

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
      .......
BUT, when you look at the efforts of our "volunteers" involved in the Glass
Atlas, you have to wonder just how many resources they can commit, just how
many supplies they can purchase before this thing snowballs into a real
money pit.  At some point in time, we're going to have to consider funding
and I haven't seen a lot of discussion on this.  Our "volunteers" are a very
gracious lot, but we have to consider their time and expenses and figure out
a way to maintain this thing once it's done.  If it's freely accessible on
the web, who maintains it and how are the associated expenses covered.  If
it's put into hardcopy and only accessible by request, then you can place a
charge on it to insure that it does not become a burden.

      .....
Come on, guys ....... tell me how we're going to fund this thing and convice
me that time and expenses for those doing the grunt work are going to be
taken care of.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

----
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----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 09:24:37 1997
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From: karenro <karenro@newpig3.newpig.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:18:50 -0500
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=New_Pig_Corporat%l=NEWPIG9-970219171850Z-106543@newpig9.newpig.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>I vote both.        Karen Roberts
>
>glasschic wrote:
>> 
>> Bonnie Clark wrote:
>> >
>> > After all the discussion verses putting the Glass Atlas on the web or on
>> > the hard copy.  I would still vote to do the hard copy first and then
>> > work on a web site copy since there appears to be more problems
>> > producing it, and not all of us are computer geeks.  I would also
>> > suggest putting them on the largest size paper possible, so it will
>> > allow for those who have bigger patterns.  I guess this decision should
>> > be made by the person who is doing the producing as it is their
>> > volunteered time and energy.  I don't know how we could all vote anyway.
>> > It is just a matter of voicing our opinions if we happen to read about
>> > the discussions.
>> > Bonnie Clark
>> > fishbait@televar.com
>> 
>> Bonnie, can we get you to count votes for hard copy versus website?  My
>> vote is for website only no published hard copy.  Anyone wants my
>> reasons behind this let me know.
>> 
>> Joyce Moran
>
>Sure, I would be happy to count all the votes.  Send them to me. Let's
>make the deadline for voting on March 1.  I will report the number of
>votes the very next day.  Write down hard copy, soft copy or both.  I
>will start collecting right now, so get your votes in to me at
>fishbait@televar.com  
>Bonnie Clark
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 09:37:38 1997
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X-Path: aristotle.net!rwsmith
From: Rebecca Smith <rwsmith@aristotle.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:37:44 -0600
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970218234115.08d7aa12@aristotle.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

As for me!!! Yes I have a computer and Internet access. However, I don't own
a scanner, nor any type of CAD program. My printer is the very first one we
bought 18 years ago and is limited in its abilities. My husband and I can
write programs, manipulate programs, segregate parts of programs to stand
alone. If it were not for Internet access we would not even be running any
Windows programs (our version 3.1). We prefer having complete and total
domination over our system. I design all my stained glass by hand with a
pencil and piece of paper. I only own one pattern book and have never used
one of them. Further more I am now disabled and with monies being tight we
can not and will not afford to buy all the items neccessary to get any
benifit from an Atlas on the Web. Ideally would be both hard and soft
copies. I will be sending my vote to Bonnie as one for hard copy. As for
what it is worth, there is my opinion.

Rebecca Smith (rwsmith@aristotle.net)

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 10:24:19 1997
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X-Path: americanbevel.com!ab
From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Eye Software
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:27:56 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.22756.0>
References: <<1997Feb19.6469.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Hello Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations,

American Bevel, Inc. cannot comment on the "Glass Eye". It is not our
program.

Our program "Designer" can do the following:
    export and import in many formats
    can export and import to Corel Draw
    read all scanned drawings as well as clipart
    
Cad programs read best, files that are created in their program; with
their extensions. 

When you scan or use clip art, these objects enter the programs as one
unit. You cannot change parts of the objects, just the whole.

We do not have a 3D modeling 'plug in' at this time.

I hope this answers your questions; if not try again.

B. Rgds,

Richard
American Bevel, Inc.


leestat7 wrote:
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> I am in the process of deciding which software package to buy, and would
> like clarification on the the msg below-
> 
> If I understand correctly-  If I create a pattern in "Glass Eye" I can
> export the design in several different format extensions-i.e. PCX, JPEG,
> ETC.  But the program is unable to read and manipulate any other format
> than the Glass Eye format. i.e. a design I created in Corel Draw, one
> that I have scanned into the computer from one of my drawings, and it
> cannot read and use a piece of 'clip art' Is this correct??? Or import
> part of a 3D image created in one of my other CAD programs.  Last
> Question-are you planing to add on a 3D modeling 'plug in' for the Glass
> Eye program.  (I do a lot of boxes, vases, candle holders, etc) and
> would like to work in 3 dimentions.
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> 
> Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> >
> > American Bevel "Designer" can export in all formats...pcx, jpg,gif, and
> > many more. You can also scan any drawing.
> >
> > It is not our suggestion to scan or import files with extensions other
> > than the main extension for the program that you are using.
> >>>>snip>>>>
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 10:47:45 1997
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X-Path: fast.net!charles
From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:42:58 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.94258.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.103022.0>>
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Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> 
> Charles:
> 
> American Bevel, Inc.; main purpose for writing and copyrighting our
> "Designer" CAD program is to sell American Bevel Clusters. We will
> prohibit any other manufacture of bevel clusters, the use of our file
> extensions. We will prohibit anyone who makes clip art or patterns for
> resale, the use of our file extensions.
> 
> An end/user can use "Designer" to help sell Stained Glass for themselves
> or their studio. We do not want anyone using the "Designer" CAD program
> in itself for profit. Simply stated; "Designer" is mente to help the
> end/user to sell and produce Stained Glass, not clip art or patterns for
> resale.
> 
> BUT, anyone who wishes to share information, clip art, and/or patterns
> for free; we will help to the best of our ability.
> 
> As stated above our propose is to sell American Bevel Clusters; it is
> also our belief that our "Designer" CAD program is good for the
> industry.
> 
> Some of our distributors are selling the "Designer" CAD program for
> $80.00. If you think anyone is getting rich on this CAD program; well I
> won't go there.
> 
> It was my thought that this program would help people sell Stained
> Glass. You do not need to use bevel clusters to use the program.
> 
> American Bevel, Inc. is trying to give something back to the Stained
> Glass Industry. Our "Designer" CAD program is a work in progress. It is
> just a foundation. Something everyone can build on, it is mente to help
> everyone. It is to bad some people do not recognize the effort it took
> to bring such a product to the industry.
> 
> I hope this clarifies my position on our copyright and our propose.
> 
> B. Rgds,
> 
> Richard Ashoff
> American Bevel, Inc.

Richard:

Having done some research and use of your program, I have come to the
following conclusions:

1) The licensing agreement is ridiculous, bordering on inept.  Given the
restrictions on file use, the fact that you restrict the use of your
file extensions to be more precise, limits your product to simply the
hobbyist, not the serious commercial artist.  Not criticizing your
business decisions, but you have already cut your market for this
product tremendously.  I realize that you say that you aren't looking to
make money, and are looking to give something back to the art.  Wouldn't
the best way to give something back be to allow the designs created on
your software be used commercially by those who spent money on the
program which is supposed to aid them in their designs?  But that comes
from a glass enthusiast, not a raving capitalist.

2) While we are on the subject of licensing agreements, you may also
want to consider copyright laws.  While you are imposing "Big Brother"
restrictions on use of your software, you may want to check into the
"look and feel" laws that apply to computer software.  These laws
prohibit copying or writing code that resembles "to a significant
degree" any software previously on the market.  I think that the folks
at Corel, (who sell a terrific CAD program CorelDraw) would be
interested in showing your product to their lawyers -- unless, of
course, you creatively managed a license from them.  Having extensively
used Corel in my own glass creations, I was pretty well convinced when
installing your program that it was in fact, CorelDraw 3.  After all,
the features and tools that you include resemble versions of Corel from
v7 to v3.  And, I might add that CorelDraw 3.0 is now selling at RETAIL
stores for less than $50, a product that glass artists can use for both
glass design and desktop publishing.

3) One question that I have is how you can tell that something has been
printed using your software?  Assuming that most consumers aren't
printing to a machine capable of watermarking or embedding holograms,
there is no real way to guard against this.  Perhaps you have embedded a
code that electronically sends you a signal when a piece goes to a
printer, after all the LOWJACK technology is implemented to trace stolen
cars.  Who would have programmed this with access to this technology? 
Luke Skywalker, Chewbacca, maybe R2-D2?  After all, what could possibly
be placed on a print-out that white-out or a scissor wouldn't cure?  For
that matter, why not export the file to .jpg, .gif, or another supported
format and print from another program.  I'd have to review your
tyrannical licensing agreement to see if that's covered though.


All in all, I do find your program an excellent reproduction of existing
software, in fact, I may even hasten to use the term USEFUL in
describing your product.  From a business standpoint, the program is
designed to be used with American Bevels only, and veiled itself nicely
as a tool for the craftsperson, or the Shroud of Turin for the
commercial designer.

But overall, it would be cheaper for the consumer to just buy Corel Draw
3, or go up to version 7 if you want to spend the extra money.  You'll
get the same program, minus the preprogrammed clipart of American
Bevels, which doesn't take long to recreate.  Best of all, you won't
have the hassle of the licensing agreement, something which I think that
Mr. Ashoff is waiting to cash in on violations from it.

Sincerely,
Charles

p.s. Please do not try to print this document, as it has been encrypted
using technology first used in American Bevel software.  We wouldn't
want to set off the warning lights in Russia...
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 11:24:17 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Castle Pattern and Pattern Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:30:08 +0000
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> Do you know if one could
> run with a dos menu and either choose to start win 95 or win 3.1 and so have
> the best of both worlds for awhile while switching?  Meg

There are ways to do that. Go http://www.winmag.com and see if there 
isn't some information in (I think) their December 1995 issue. I seem 
to remember that there's a way to set up an either/or situation.  But 
believe you me, once you install Windows95, you won't want to go back 
to 3.1 ... I got a brand-new computer last year, dumped Win95 and 
reformatted with 3.1 ... and now I'm sorry I did that.  My home box 
runs on Win95 and it's way cool.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 11:24:18 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Reaction to Albert's press release posting
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:30:07 +0000
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> Albert, .....  Initially, I saw it as yet another way to let someone else
> get their hands into my pocket.  You see, at Summit Stained Glass, we do our
> own cartoons and designs, some computer aided, but mostly freehand.  So, I'm
> not interested in subscribing to a service that wants to put a royalty on my
> work when I generally share it freely with others anyway.  
> 
> BUT, when you look at the efforts of our "volunteers" involved in the Glass
> Atlas, you have to wonder just how many resources they can commit, just how
> many supplies they can purchase before this thing snowballs into a real
> money pit.  

Good points, Mike.  My point of view is that the company (and people) 
behind the offer being made in the press release are willing and able 
to undertake all of the expense, management, uploading, downloading, 
etc., at pretty reasonable rates.  As you say, there are going to be 
costs no matter who does it; those people realize that, are asking a 
fairly inexpensive price to do it (if I remember rightly), and are 
willing to do so.  What's been proposed here is a much larger 
undertaking than I think anyone realizes yet, if only in terms of 
keeping track of everything, let alone dealing with the day-to-day 
problems that are sure to arise (see mine of earlier today).

But I understand (as I also said earlier) where you're coming from, 
absolutely, even though it's only nothing that costs nothing.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 11:34:46 1997
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From: StnGlsTres@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:34:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.9347.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

If I may return to this subject, a question about the foil reinforcement  -
probably basic, but I just recently bought some of the Venture stuff and am
not clear about how to use it.  Do you put it between the glass and the foil?
 Or between the pieces of glass before you solder them?  I would think
between glass and foil, but the one time I did that, it didn't seem to make
any difference.  

Maybe the next basic question should be: in what circumstance do you use the
reinforcement?  I find that suncatchers and anything basically without a
frame around the outside seem to be very weak at the soldering points - easy
to bend a little.  Is that the best place/time to use reinforcement, when
there's no outside framing?  (or maybe I should be using lead instead of
foil......??)

Or maybe I'm not supposed to be using it with foil at all, just with lead?

I've been doing glass for about a year, but obviously still have a lot to
learn....  :-)  And I thank goodness for all you wonderful folks on Bungi who
are willing to help us less experienced folks without making us feel stupid!

Thanks much....

Stephanie
Stained Glass Treasures
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 11:53:19 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Eye Software/ooppps-Designer (American Bevel)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 14:49:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.94916.0>
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Thank You Richard,

Sorry for the big Ooooooppps-getting the two programs mixed up.  However
since your Designer program is the other one ofthe two I am considering,
the information is very helpful.  Yes, I have DL your 'Demo' program,
but haven't had much time to 'play' with it.  You have answered the
questions I was going to send to you, so Thank You again.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations




Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> 
> Hello Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations,
> 
> American Bevel, Inc. cannot comment on the "Glass Eye". It is not our
> program.
> 
> Our program "Designer" can do the following:
>     export and import in many formats
>     can export and import to Corel Draw
>     read all scanned drawings as well as clipart
> 
> Cad programs read best, files that are created in their program; with
> their extensions.
> 
> When you scan or use clip art, these objects enter the programs as one
> unit. You cannot change parts of the objects, just the whole.
> 
> We do not have a 3D modeling 'plug in' at this time.
> 
> I hope this answers your questions; if not try again.

<<<snip>>>>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 14:19:40 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:18:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.12181.0>
References: <<1997Feb19.9347.0>>
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StnGlsTres@aol.com wrote:
> 
> If I may return to this subject, a question about the foil reinforcement  -
> probably basic, but I just recently bought some of the Venture stuff and am
> not clear about how to use it.  Do you put it between the glass and the foil?
>  Or between the pieces of glass before you solder them?  I would think
> between glass and foil, but the one time I did that, it didn't seem to make
> any difference.
> 
> Maybe the next basic question should be: in what circumstance do you use the
> reinforcement?  I find that suncatchers and anything basically without a
> frame around the outside seem to be very weak at the soldering points - easy
> to bend a little.  Is that the best place/time to use reinforcement, when
> there's no outside framing?  (or maybe I should be using lead instead of
> foil......??)
> 
> Or maybe I'm not supposed to be using it with foil at all, just with lead?
> 
> I've been doing glass for about a year, but obviously still have a lot to
> learn....  :-)  And I thank goodness for all you wonderful folks on Bungi who
> are willing to help us less experienced folks without making us feel stupid!
> 
> Thanks much....
> 
> Stephanie
> Stained Glass Treasures
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it goes between the foil lines, so if you had a panel, you would shove
it into the joints. then solder over it.

---Mike Savad



-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 16:22:56 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:38:26 +0000
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Yep, Laura,
You got it in ONE!!
As the crazy half-wit that first started this ball rolling, that was 
exactly what I myself had in mind.
I also muttered something about reaching "glassers" all over the 
WORLD, that did also mean areas wherein last week's technology might 
be their dream for next YEAR - maybe...
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Laura wrote:  (snip)
 What a breath of fresh air. I guess the
whole purpose of this Atlas is not just for us on the list, but for all
Glassers in general. 
Although, I for one am extremely impressed with the amount of people (big
names as well) that have supplied help and information to others on this
list, I know that there are plenty of us that don't have a clue about
computers (not me personally, of course ;-) HaHa), and yet would love the
opportunity to utilize the fabulous idea.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 16:22:57 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: fake glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:38:26 +0000
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Hi everybody,
As I mentined before, was myself briefly involved in UK in this 
market. Don't want to fuel the debate OR emotions, other than to 
reply to Scott's "benefits" issue (which is a good approach);
In my humble experience;
1. Plastic overlays crack easily when exposed to heat & cold
2. Plastic over-lay bubbles easily
3. Plastic overlay fade in their colours (some manufacturers state in 
their specifications a fading ratio of 10 percent per 3-5 years)
4. It needs to be more protected from weather, sun & the elements
5. Here in UK (Where you CAN buy it  per sheet) the cost is not that 
dissimilar from "real glass" per sq.ft, therefore making it very 
expensive (for what it is)
and 6. as Scott mentioned:

In the original post, I mentioned that if someone cracks a plastic coated
window, the entire window needs to be replaced... you can't just repair a few
pieces as you could with authentic stained glass. Does anyone have other
specific benefits like this to share?

Elisabeth 'n Toby

----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 16:22:58 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas, Costs & Fundings
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:38:26 +0000
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Hi Len and All,
Your  posting about costs and funding was a very wise and sensible 
one and I couldn't agree more. 
- I think, first of all, we need to get a better idea what we all want 
out of this project.
- Then (or simultaneously) decide the format
- Then find out who can "donate" what
- Who organizes what (which is also a kind of donation)
- Then costing it out in terms of unavoidable expenses to be refunded 
to whoever incurred them.
- Then (if necessary) decide if, where and how to "cut our sails" a 
bit.
But I think there is a kind of Natural Progression that will 
inevitably take place.
Joyce has made a most magnificent offer.What Albert has pointed out 
about the magnitude of the task, I know nothing about, I don't 
understand, because I myself am "barely" computer literate. But I 
recognize that this is very likely to be quite a daunting task. I 
would be the first one to  defer to Joyce's preferences, decisions 
and judgement on ANYTHING she undertakes to do to produce this idea 
for the Internet aspect. If she says "jump", I'll jump. Her offer 
deserves that.

I myself am very happy to "donate" 2-3 of my own designs. Martin 
Streng mentioned my Humped-Back Whale. It's a simple design, but it 
is the colours that makes it powerful. It lends itself well to 
reduction whatever size anyone dictates to me. It is (by the way) 
finally installed - not far away from here. So I can submit both a 
colour photograph and the design itself  (plus "story". Very valid 
point Martin!!)

I can also "donate" a very early design of an Old English Sheep Dog 
head, that I did as a "stained glass student" It is rather 
appropriate for me, is it not? If required or wanted I can then add 
another design, yet to be decided.
All my designs I have to hand copy and scale down from my original working 
cartoons (full of nail holes and blood and the occasional cups of 
tea....). Hence none them are designs I can  deliver "hey presto" in 
5 minutes. Someone else commented on this particular problem too a day or so ago.
My designs vary so much from about 18 x 18 inches to 10 x 13 ft or 
larger. All of us obviously have to chose from our designs the ones 
most suitable for this kind of treatment.

Another service I am able to donate virtually (almost) instantly, is 
to sift through my Glass Atlas File and collate together a List of 
each individual with e-mail addresses etc who have volunteered a 
donation of a specific service. (For instance, it may have escaped 
the notice of most of you, but we do actually have the "donation" of 
a hard-copy printing person.) There are so many enthusiastic people 
out there, each and every one wishing, willing and ready to get this 
project off the ground and flying. I find it not only magnificent, 
but quite overwhelming.
If you agree, then I will set to and get working on this task.

If there is anything else you all think I might be suitable to do / 
to be (other than be The Editor...), I am willing to hear. (I am still 
ruminating on whom to "blackmail" for the task as Editor. 
Suggestions? Please forward in strictest confidence on my direct 
e-mail....    ;-)     )

But the next 2 months for me will be almost totally occupied with 3 
things:
1. getting 2 panels designed, made, delivered and installed for a 
Methodist Church (.... and PAID for!!!)
2. Pacifying my UK Taxman
3. Looking after my "chickens"  before/during/after  the Trip to 
Chartres. As some of them are actually YOU, it is rather sacrosanct...

I have also promised a copy of a Pear-Tree/ Tree of Life design  to one of you. 
That one too, I have to scale and copy down by hand from said 
nail-ridden, blood-sputtered original cartoon.....
Other than that, I am all yours....
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 16:22:58 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:38:26 +0000
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Bonnie,
Since Joyce has "volunteered" you for the counting, here comes mine:
Hard copy and web. But am happy to "go with the flow" as regards at 
what time-point the web-copy should appear (simultaneously or later).
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Joyce wrote:
Bonnie, can we get you to count votes for hard copy versus website?  My 
vote is for .... (snip)
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 16:23:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hounds
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:38:26 +0000
Message-ID: <199702200021.AAA12316@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Gloria (and anyone else "hound-bound")
The quarantine laws in UK are now being discussed and will very 
likely change in the next year or so (vaccination 
certificate/passports for travelling pooches) . However, There is 
another alternative which I tried to get feed-back from the Group a 
little while ago (got NONE). House-swapping.
I'll water your plants, feed your cat, look after your "Fido", while 
you do the same for me.... and so on.You explore all the stained 
glass sites in UK, I explore the stained glass sites around your area 
in USA.
Again, like some of my "brain-waves", it's not a project for this 
instant, but for poor stained glass artists like ourselves, it might 
be an idea to explore mid/long term amongst people who are more and 
more getting to know one-another and may be an economical and 
pleasant way of travelling to each other, learning about each other's cultures and 
stained glass. Again, as stained glass artists, we are very much 
aware  and caring of each other's stained glass business. I know 
myself, how difficult it is to
Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Gloria (3hounds)
> So what's stopping you (apart from money..)?
> C'mon over!!
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> Gloria wrote:
> 
> Elizabeth,
> That is one of the most enjoyable lifes I have ever read... My Borois
> should have such a wonderful life in the fields..they do do alot for my
> gardens.. enjoy the coming of spring.

Years ago I wanted to come to England, but the quarantine laws were too
strong for my friends.. Have they changed.. Maybe, it does not matter,
years ago I wanted to
live there for awhile, now,maybe a visit.
Thanks
> >
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
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----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 16:23:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:38:26 +0000
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Albert,
... still chewing it over, my friend... Maybe others doing the same. 
Methinks maybe, that the "Bunginians" have got a good steam up to 
want to do our own thing. But I certainly think it would be useful to 
take (or at least look at)  a leaf or two out of their book. It would 
seem a little "tame" now to disappear under the annonymity of some 
other guys' scheme, when as a group we could achieve a project 
together as one , have the fun, the work (and frustrations) and organization of doing it 
together.
Though I personally found your press release very interesting and 
good food for thought and have saved it in amongst my "Atlas" file to 
ruminate on a bit more.
 The  enthusiastic debate is still going on though;  it will take shape 
and form  gradually. After all, there is no instant hurry...
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Albert wrote:
I'm kinda curious that there's been no reaction to the press release 
I passed along this weekend ... someone else proposing something very 
much like the Glass Atlas.

No feedback?

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 16:23:02 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:38:26 +0000
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Hi Phil, and All,
My original posting/ball-rolling stated that IF there was any 
proceeds coming in, THEN perhaps we could agrre for this to go to 
some sort of stained glass related charitable purpose.....
I think I also mentioned that IF we thought the whole idea fun enough 
to repeat again in the future and it THEN took off, that then the 
time might perhaps arrive where a cent or two might come our 
individual way.
But you are quite right, the idea was born as a non-profit seeking - 
originally, but just as a fun thing to do together across many 
national and international borders and for sharing with others who 
are less fortunate our love and enthusiasm of stained glass, be it 
beginners, learners, improvers, hobbyists or professionals or 
"idea-givers".
But then "my" word is certainly NOT the Bible and I have no intention 
of even trying to "push" decisions or be sanctimonious about anything 
at all. As far as I am concerned, everbody has a voice in this 
project.
Bonnie has now been volunteered as our official vote-counter! She 
DID agree though   ;-)
Bonnie, is there anyway we can make your vote-counting easier???
Perhaps by reducing e-mail text so you didn't have to sit and read 
through every single e-mail from beginning to end; vote formula in 
"subject-title" perhaps?
But I have to confess that I am quietly "glowing" at the lively 
discussion and debate this has generated and at the enthusiasm and 
willingness  to do something about it. In some instances, people are 
positively impatient ( or as the saying goes in UK: "chomping at the 
bit").
Elisabeth 'n Toby.

Phil7 wrote:
The press release related to one word, "profit".  

The atlas began as a for fun, pleasure, and most important, learning 
from other artists, both more skilled, and less skilled. It captured the 
desire to simply contribute to a group effort for no financial gain.  
Now it looks like like the professionals are looking for a gain. Nothing 
wrong with that, but not for me.

Sign me, (snip)
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 16:23:06 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas (Name?)
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:38:26 +0000
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How about "Bunginian World Glass Atlas" ???
(With acknowledgement to Len Alcamo for coining the word "Bunginian"...    :-)    )

Elisabeth 'n Toby 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 16:35:27 1997
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From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas, Charles
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:37:06 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.8376.0>
References: <<1997Feb19.94258.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
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Dear Charles Maverick:

What a bunch of bullshit.

>From our information you downloaded "Designer" on Wed, Feb. 19 at 1:10
P.M.

You penned this reply at 1:42 P.M.

So, you spend about 32 minutes reviewing "Designer". Thank you for your
valuable time.

I think what you have said is a disservice to American Bevel, Inc. and
to anyone who might think your opinion has merit.

To imply that we copied Corel Draw does not even warrant a reply.

It is easy to sit on the sidelines. If you do not like our "Designer"
program then don't use it. Better yet why don't you try writing one
yourself and let us look at it.

We released the "Designer" program in October. Since that date there
have been 5,234 downloads of our Demo version, and we have sold 654
copies of "Designer".

There has only been one complaint.

I would think this is a pretty good beginning.

Say what you might, I have spent 32 minutes to long on this subject.

I am sorry and embarrassed to have used the 'bungi' forum for this rely.

B. Rgds,

Richard Ashoff
American Bevel, Inc.
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 16:59:35 1997
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From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:54:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.145439.0>
References: <<1997Feb19.154832.0>>
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Mary J Austin wrote:
> 
> I just recieved your new catalog and could not find pre tinned wire in
> it. Do you carry this and if so what is the price? Thanks and you have a
> great catalog.
> Mary
> diamonds@juno.com
> 
> Mary,
Yes! We do carry pretinned wire. I need to know the size you want, or if
you prefer, I can fax you the information. Whatever you like!
Elenie
http://www.warner-criv.com
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 17:04:57 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas - Costs & Funding
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 01:21:14 +0000
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Hi All,
....an afterthought to my postings.
>From the real "Workers" that are offering donations, often in kind, in 
terms of work, time, energy and their imaginations (Joyce, being a 
point in case, but not the only example), all of us, singly or 
together may have something to "give back".
Chucking money at people is so very often not the only or best way of 
reward or appreciation.
So very often, we ourselves are "financially challenged". But we do 
have other things to offer that in real terms might be even more 
valueable than cash could ever be.
For instance, could anyone offer (e.g. Joyce) hospitality somewhere 
where she is particularly interested to go but might not have 
otherwhise considered; or a facility that has been searched for,  year 
in, year out to no avail. And so on......
Here in UK,  where we have suffered a number of years now of 
economical recession,  fund-raising has been a very acute problem for 
many projects and organizations. One of the  solutions has been the 
re-emergence of a kind of "barter-trade".
(A simplistic example: I mow your lawn once a week in June, if you 
feed my cat for 10 days in August...)
Ideas Please????

Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 17:25:05 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas, Costs & Fundings
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:29:50 +0000
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> Your  posting about costs and funding was a very wise and sensible 
> one and I couldn't agree more. 
> - I think, first of all, we need to get a better idea what we all want 
> out of this project.
> - Then (or simultaneously) decide the format
> - Then find out who can "donate" what
> - Who organizes what (which is also a kind of donation)
> - Then costing it out in terms of unavoidable expenses to be refunded 
> to whoever incurred them.
> - Then (if necessary) decide if, where and how to "cut our sails" a 
> bit.

All very wise, I think. I hope my comments weren't/aren't seen as 
"wet blanket" in their aim; I think what you all are proposing here 
is great in terms of your enthusiasm and willingness to share with 
each other (and, I presume, as many others as want to get involved). 
That's the reason I'm involved with the Guild at the grand (and as 
yet unpaid) $1/year; many of my activities for the past 25 years have 
been because I'm interested in increasing the flow of information 
between glass artists/craftspeople; I was one myself when I started 
out and my interest/enthusiasm for glass and the people involved 
continues unabated.

My name was lobbed up at some point as editor and I just had to say 
no to that; I haven't the time.  So I was glad to see Joyce 
continuing as enthusiastically as she has.  But I've decided I'd like 
to help out, if I can.  The good people at bungi.com made 200 Mb 
available to the Guild (I'm sure I've thanked them before, but again: 
thanks) and promised more if we fill that up.  But so far, despite 
the 200-some-odd pages we've put up, we're still using only a little 
more than 7 Mb.  Would it be helpful if we set some of that aside for 
this particular project?  I'd be happy to help capture and convert 
files, Joyce.  Whatever.  We could arrange it so that the images were 
received, checked to see that they work, uploaded to bungi and you 
could view them there and edit them, picking and choosing ... or 
simply making sure all the information is there for each one.

Whatever costs there might be ... hmm.  It might be possible to find 
someone in the industry to support those costs ... sort of the way 
Mobil Oil supports Masterpiece Theatre.  If we could find someone to 
do that (after first figuring out what costs there would be in the 
web version and in a print version), that might be the ticket.  Since 
I've been preparing stuff for print for years, I could probably do 
that and this is what I'd suggest: plan on a certain size -- 8-1/2"x 
11", say -- and number of pages, say 32.  When there are that many 
patterns, publish Bungicom Patterns I ... later comes Bungicom 
Patterns II, and so on.  That way you have a pretty clear idea what 
the production costs on a 32-page booklet of patterns cost and can 
safely predict the "retail" price.  Of course, if only ten people 
want the printed version, it's going to be expensive on a per-copy 
basis; if 10,000 people want it, it'll be much cheaper.  


> All my designs I have to hand copy and scale down from my original working 
> cartoons (full of nail holes and blood and the occasional cups of 
> tea....). Hence none them are designs I can  deliver "hey presto" in 
> 5 minutes. Someone else commented on this particular problem too a day or so ago.

Actually, it isn't a problem, Elisabeth.  If you make a straight copy 
of a pattern, nail holes, blood stains, tea rings and all ... or a 
direct scan of it, the scanning software itself can be used to remove 
the stains, rings and holes.  One merely "grabs" a section of "clean" 
drawing and plops it down on top of the flaw.  The flaw disappears. 
It does take time to do that, though. It depends on how many nails, 
how much blood and how many teacup rings there are. <g>

Good luck with the church, tax man ... and I hope you and your chicks 
have a Great Time in Chartres.  The last time I was there I broke a 
tooth on a peppercorn in an otherwise terrific steak avec pommes 
frites and had to fly home immediately to the dentist. Bummer.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 17:25:07 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:29:50 +0000
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> Though I personally found your press release very interesting and 
> good food for thought and have saved it in amongst my "Atlas" file to 
> ruminate on a bit more.

Oops!  You've confused the messenger with the message.  That was 
someone *else's press release, one that I received and merely passed 
along ... or is that what you meant?

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 18:09:25 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas, Costs & Fundings
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:14:53 +0000
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> I've been preparing stuff for print for years, I could probably do 
> that and this is what I'd suggest: plan on a certain size -- 8-1/2"x 
> 11", say -- and number of pages, say 32.  

I meant to mention the tabloid format, too ... that would be 11"x 17" 
-- which would perhaps be more appropriate -- and could be 
web-printed on white paper in fairly short runs at not too great a 
price, plus each "volume" could be set up as a self-mailer, 
eliminating the envelope problem.  (My, I *am getting pragmatic too 
soon.)

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 18:26:26 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:23:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.162327.0>
References: <<1997Feb19.9347.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

StnGlsTres@aol.com wrote:
> 
> If I may return to this subject, a question about the foil reinforcement  -
> probably basic, but I just recently bought some of the Venture stuff and am
> not clear about how to use it.  Do you put it between the glass and the foil?
>  Or between the pieces of glass before you solder them?  

Yes, between the pieces of glass before you solder, after they are 
already foiled.  The copper reinforcement is just a little higher than 
the pieces of glass, causing your bead of solder to be just a little 
more rounded to cover it.  That makes it stronger in addition to the 
strength of the copper piece you put in there.


> Maybe the next basic question should be: in what circumstance do you use the
> reinforcement?  I find that suncatchers and anything basically without a
> frame around the outside seem to be very weak at the soldering points - easy
> to bend a little.  Is that the best place/time to use reinforcement, when
> there's no outside framing?  (or maybe I should be using lead instead of
> foil......??)

I use the copper reinforcement with larger panels that are more than 2 
sq ft.  With suncatchers, I use either the Flex-Braid around the entire 
perimeter of the piece.  (It adds quite a bit to the width of the 
perimeter, and would be noticable if you only put it in certain places) 
or I use 20 guage wire in places where I need more support.  It's pretty 
thin, and with the right amount of solder on top of it pretty well 
disappears.
> 
> Or maybe I'm not supposed to be using it with foil at all, just with lead?
> 
> I've been doing glass for about a year, but obviously still have a lot to
> learn....  :-)  And I thank goodness for all you wonderful folks on Bungi who
> are willing to help us less experienced folks without making us feel stupid!
> 
> Thanks much....
> 
> Stephanie
> Stained Glass Treasures

You can run the copper reinforcement down the length of the lead also, 
or you can buy lead that already has the reinforcement built into it.  
But with the puttying process, lead is more solid and strong than copper 
foil and doesn't require the copper reinforcement.  Usually rebar is 
used with lead.  I'm just a copper foil person and maybe someone else 
can give you tips on reinforcing lead.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 18:30:37 1997
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From: mrum@idirect.com (mike & carol)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 16:30:32 -0500
Message-ID: <199702192130.QAA18520@relief.idirect.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I vote "soft copy".

Carol
*******************************************
Mike and Carol Rumak
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at:
http://web.idirect.com/~studio
*******************************************

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 18:32:43 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas (Name?)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:29:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.162950.0>
References: <<199702200021.AAA12322@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:
> 
> How about "Bunginian World Glass Atlas" ???
> (With acknowledgement to Len Alcamo for coining the word "Bunginian"...    :-)   

Can we have the correct pronunciation for "Bunginian"?  Is it like 
Virginian?  I kinda like that word....

Joyce
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 18:46:14 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas, Costs & Fundings
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:41:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.16411.0>
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> Actually, it isn't a problem, Elisabeth.  If you make a straight copy
> of a pattern, nail holes, blood stains, tea rings and all ... or a
> direct scan of it, the scanning software itself can be used to remove
> the stains, rings and holes.  One merely "grabs" a section of "clean"
> drawing and plops it down on top of the flaw.  The flaw disappears.
> It does take time to do that, though. It depends on how many nails,
> how much blood and how many teacup rings there are. <g>

> 
> Albert


I agree with Albert.  The scanning software takes care of things much 
quicker than you or I can redraw the pattern.  I decided to see what it 
would take and took my large drawing of my Indian Chief to the copier 
today and for 30 cents had a 8.5x11 copy ready to scan.  I spent more 
time than necessary cleaning it up (because it was mine) but really the 
effort necessary is minimal compared to doing it by hand.  Please just 
make copies of your stuff and send it as is.  You can make notations 
about stuff to be wiped out and I promise to take care of it for you.

Joyce
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 18:50:30 1997
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From: "Edward W. Reitmann" <oddjob@calhoun.lakes.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE:House Swapping
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:50:43 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.145043.0>
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC1EA6.9707B380
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Just got caught up in the "ATLAS" adventure; however; my home is always =
OPEN and I have lots of plants to water & a cat and dog that would be so =
happy if they were not shipped off to a babysitter!
Anybody interested in visiting the great state of Minnesota (lots of =
Swedish, Nordsk history here.) Minneapolis is a very diverse city of =
many arts and cultures. We even have a Tiffeny original located at one =
of our cemetaries.I believe Len lives just down the road a piece (50 =
miles?)
Suppose I'll get no takers until our 55" of snow and -35 degree temps =
have vanished ito Summer.;-)
Regards, Sue Reitmann
----------
From: 	Toby[SMTP:toby@northlights.co.uk]
Sent: 	Wednesday, February 19, 1997 6:38 PM
To: 	glass@bungi.com
Subject: 	Re: Hounds

<snip> However, There is=20
another alternative which I tried to get feed-back from the Group a=20
little while ago (got NONE). House-swapping.
I'll water your plants, feed your cat, look after your "Fido", while=20
you do the same for me.... and so on.You explore all the stained=20
glass sites in UK, I explore the stained glass sites around your area=20
in USA.


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From owner-glass Wed Feb 19 21:40:54 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Keep Those Votes Coming
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:36:49 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb19.133649.0>
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We have thirty votes in now and I am sure there are still more of
you out there that haven't voted, so keep those votes rolling in.  My
computer has never had so much activity and I am enjoying this job.  
Bonnie
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 02:41:25 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas, Costs & Fundings
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 05:47:09 +0000
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> make copies of your stuff and send it as is.  You can make notations 
> about stuff to be wiped out and I promise to take care of it for you.

So just make *two copies, leave one unmarked for scanning and write 
all over the other one, circling stuff that should be deleted, 
drawing arrows to broken lines that should be fixed, etc.  
Incidentally, a certain uniformity in the information that 
accompanies each image might be helpful.  On the Guild's site, 
there's a "caption form" that could be used as a model. Go 
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/captions.htm  If you like, I could 
revise that into atlas.htm -- adding or substracting whatever info 
you'd like to have with the patterns, Joyce.  Then I could convert it 
into a text file to be emailed.  Interested?

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 02:41:30 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas (Name?)
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 05:47:09 +0000
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> Can we have the correct pronunciation for "Bunginian"?  Is it like 
> Virginian?  I kinda like that word....

Myself, I'm saying it, "Bun Gin Ee An."  You?

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 03:35:58 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: 20 Feb 97 06:30:37 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.113037.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Stephanie at Stained Glass Treasures asked about using the Venture copper
restrip reinforcement....

Place it between foiled pieces prior to soldering.  Try to make it run in one
continuous line from one side of the design to the other, bending it where
necessary to go around curves.  You can place them herever needed.  In general,
the horizontal plane is the first place I look to reinforce.

I like using the stuff, and usually include it in most of my larger pieces.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 04:38:25 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:40:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.24021.0>
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I vote soft copy. That way I can browse others folks' ideas and talents without an investment and taylor any ideas I may get. 

begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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?,("(4O<J'[P!'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( ````!,D@`'
`
end

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 05:24:59 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:16:19 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.161619.0>
References: <<1997Feb19.154832.0>>>
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Precedence: bulk

Thanks for you reply. You can fax me at 1-317-888-2548. What I need is
just to use for the purpose of making halo's and hoops for hanging
stained glass sun catchers. Thanks again.
Mary



On Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:54:39 -0500 Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
writes:
>Mary J Austin wrote:
>> 
>> I just recieved your new catalog and could not find pre tinned wire 
>in
>> it. Do you carry this and if so what is the price? Thanks and you 
>have a
>> great catalog.
>> Mary
>> diamonds@juno.com
>> 
>> Mary,
>Yes! We do carry pretinned wire. I need to know the size you want, or 
>if
>you prefer, I can fax you the information. Whatever you like!
>Elenie
>http://www.warner-criv.com
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 05:24:59 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hounds
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:13:57 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.161357.0>
References: <<199702200021.AAA12316@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi! Anytime you want to come to the states and stay in Indiana you're
more than welcome to stay at our home with us. Maybe when I get to
England the next time I'll be able to stop by and visit you too. Any
length of stay is OK.
Mary
diamonds@juno.com




On Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:38:26 +0000 "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
writes:
>Hi Gloria (and anyone else "hound-bound")
>The quarantine laws in UK are now being discussed and will very 
>likely change in the next year or so (vaccination 
>certificate/passports for travelling pooches) . However, There is 
>another alternative which I tried to get feed-back from the Group a 
>little while ago (got NONE). House-swapping.
>I'll water your plants, feed your cat, look after your "Fido", while 
>you do the same for me.... and so on.You explore all the stained 
>glass sites in UK, I explore the stained glass sites around your area 
>in USA.
>Again, like some of my "brain-waves", it's not a project for this 
>instant, but for poor stained glass artists like ourselves, it might 
>be an idea to explore mid/long term amongst people who are more and 
>more getting to know one-another and may be an economical and 
>pleasant way of travelling to each other, learning about each other's 
>cultures and 
>stained glass. Again, as stained glass artists, we are very much 
>aware  and caring of each other's stained glass business. I know 
>myself, how difficult it is to
>Toby wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Gloria (3hounds)
>> So what's stopping you (apart from money..)?
>> C'mon over!!
>> Elisabeth 'n Toby
>> 
>> Gloria wrote:
>> 
>> Elizabeth,
>> That is one of the most enjoyable lifes I have ever read... My 
>Borois
>> should have such a wonderful life in the fields..they do do alot for 
>my
>> gardens.. enjoy the coming of spring.
>
>Years ago I wanted to come to England, but the quarantine laws were 
>too
>strong for my friends.. Have they changed.. Maybe, it does not matter,
>years ago I wanted to
>live there for awhile, now,maybe a visit.
>Thanks
>> >
>> ----
>> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>> ----
>> ----
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>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 05:38:15 1997
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	id m0vxYgw-0000HNa; Thu, 20 Feb 97 05:37 PST
X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date:         Thu, 20 Feb 97 08:31:30 EST
Message-ID:   <970220.083750.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<1997Feb19.9347.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Don't know much about reinforcement, but if you find that your
suncatchers tend to bend a little at the solder lines, then look
closely at your designs (and I find this shortcoming far too
often in comercial designs!).  You want to avoid straight or almost
straight lines running across your piece.  Stained glass will "hinge"
at those lines.  You may need to do some redesign.  If the design cannot
be changed (What do you do between the butterfly body and the wings?)
then you might set the piece in a circle or oval.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 05:44:35 1997
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	id m0vxYnJ-000121a; Thu, 20 Feb 97 05:44 PST
X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:45:24 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.14524.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

SOFT!!!!!  

I live in "timber country".  I figure it takes a person of less than
average intelligence about 30 minutes to learn to copy from the net.  It
takes a tree about 30 years to hand that same person a piece of paper. 
Give the tree a break!!!
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 06:09:50 1997
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X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs
From: April Paine <vgplugs@primeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Uns*b directions
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 09:15:07 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.17157.0>
References: <<1997Feb20.24021.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Can someone send me the directions to uns*b...My browser is messed up and
it's got to to tke a holiday till I figure out how to fix it??

vgplugs@primeline.com
http://members.tripod.com/~VictorianGreenhouse/index.html






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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 06:15:20 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:10:23 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970117043404.27dffddc@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi;
        When you get to the edge what?  I have been edging my foil panels
with galvaized? U came.  Do I just solder that onto the edging like the
other joins?  I heard somewhere that one should actually set the reinforcing
into the wood frame ... maybe another kind of reiforcing?  Anyone know?  Meg


At 06:30 AM 2/20/97 EST, you wrote:
>Stephanie at Stained Glass Treasures asked about using the Venture copper
>restrip reinforcement....
>
>Place it between foiled pieces prior to soldering.  Try to make it run in one
>continuous line from one side of the design to the other, bending it where
>necessary to go around curves.  You can place them herever needed.  In general,
>the horizontal plane is the first place I look to reinforce.
>
>I like using the stuff, and usually include it in most of my larger pieces.
>...Christie
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 06:18:35 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:13:38 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970117043719.27df6620@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Avoid straight lines across the designs.  Thsi must be only for suncatchers,
as you want that if you are reinforcing a larger panel?  No???  Meg

At 08:31 AM 2/20/97 EST, you wrote:
>Don't know much about reinforcement, but if you find that your
>suncatchers tend to bend a little at the solder lines, then look
>closely at your designs (and I find this shortcoming far too
>often in comercial designs!).  You want to avoid straight or almost
>straight lines running across your piece.  Stained glass will "hinge"
>at those lines.  You may need to do some redesign.  If the design cannot
>be changed (What do you do between the butterfly body and the wings?)
>then you might set the piece in a circle or oval.
>
>--
>Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
>UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
>HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 07:43:16 1997
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From: phil7 <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:24:49 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.22449.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Both paper and electronic please

phil7
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 07:49:38 1997
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From: phil7 <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas, Charles
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:31:17 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.23117.0>
References: <<1997Feb19.8376.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> 
> Dear Charles Maverick:
> 


Way to go Richard!

32 minutes was to long to waste on this person.

phil7
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 07:53:49 1997
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From: Charles <charles@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:37:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.63711.0>
References: <<1997Feb19.8376.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------30E3BE04AAD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
 
 
> What a bunch of bullshit.

Very professional language, Dick.

> 

> >From our information you downloaded "Designer" on Wed, Feb. 19 at 1:10
> P.M.
> 
> You penned this reply at 1:42 P.M.

----Why, yes, how can I deny that, "Big Brother?"  After all, the
all-powerful, all-knowing One can tell when I downloaded things.  

HOWEVER...

In November, I purchased your software. I did try and download the demo,
in hopes that things were changed, after all, I do try to be up-to-date
when I use constructive criticism.  But your server was incredibly slow
(and yes, I connect at 28.8) and kicked me off, perhaps Big Brother was
watching then too?  In case you think I'm lying, or bluffing, or
anything else, I have attached scans of the install disks so you can
see.  Try opening the scans in CorelDraw, after all I scanned them in a
format that Corel accepts.  After all, you should be able to do that,
I'm sure you have some version of Corel laying around.  I'm sure that
Big Brother put some sort of tell-tale mark on these disks so that He
can tell when it was purchased.  But if you don't believe they are from
November, I could scan in the receipt to show you.   


> 
> So, you spend about 32 minutes reviewing "Designer". Thank you for your
> valuable time.


Verb tense notwithstanding, Since November 1, there have been 162,720
minutes that have elapsed...roughly.  You can be assured that more than
32 of them were spent on your program, as I had high hopes for it. After
all, as you have pointed out, 32 minutes is not an adequate amount of
time to spend assessing software.  It is certainly not enough time
wasted to warrant in-depth responses such as these, nor a diatribe that
is quite so critical.  

I wouldn't care so much that the software is useless.  And I really
wouldn't make such a stink about it except that your licensing agreement
goes against the creativity and allowing people to freely express
themselves.  What you are in effect doing is by only allowing your
software to be used non-commercially, you put strangleholds on certain
people.  Those people are the professionals who would try and use your
software to produce works for the small profit they could make.  But
then comes the fist of Big Brother to crush the person from maybe making
$50 from a pattern or design that their local stained glass store may be
interested in.  I'm pretty sure you're not well off enough (only having
sold 654 copies of Designer) to go hunt down each of these individuals,
but the point that you want this control. 

I think that the people talking about the Glass Atlas should be aware
that they are prohibited from using your software to create a compedium
of work.  Allow me to quote from the licensing agreement.

"Example of prohibited use:
a. You may not use the Program for the creation of a book, pamphlet,
catalog, computer image, flyer, and the like contianing images and/or
designs created with the Program.  You may only create books, pamphlets,
catalogs, computer images, flyers, and the like containing images and/or
designs created with the Program for you personal use."

Here's a little hypothetical story.

Johnny Glassdesigner is at home in his meager house in the suburbs. 
He's spending the night in front of the computer, designing a terrific
bevel cluster on his American Bevel Designer software.  He's a modest
man, intending to only design this cluster to make his wife, Sally,
happy.  She gets great joy from the work that he does with glass, and is
all to happy to interrupt her baking of an apple pie to offer
suggestions and encouragement.  Later that night, Johnny finishes his
design on American Bevel Designer software and sacrifices a few precious
hours with his wife watching Seinfeld and Friends on their 19" Zenith
television set (bought on blue light at K-mart).  In turn, Johnny gets
to work on his bevel cluster, hoping to finish it before his wife goes
to bed.

Lo and behold, Johnny accomplishes his task in time to show his wife. 
She is flabbergasted by the mere beauty of the work, and astonished that
her husband had this creative energy in him.  She immediately says that
he should take a picture of the item and place it on the Internet so all
can marvel in his genious.  

Johnny posts a picture of his work on the Internet and directs the good
folks from bungi.com to his home page to see it.  Everyone there rushes
to see this gorgeous bevel cluster.  Just as Johnny is marvelling in his
glory, an e-mail message is sent to him.  This e-mail is from a giant
stained glass company who is interested in purchasing his design.

Now Johnny is a modest man, never intending to design for profit.  But
the offer for his work will help pay off his '86 Plymouth Caravan, and
finally get new tires for his wife's '77 Ford Pinto.  "Sure," Johnny
says, "Selling this would really help a lot."

So, Johnny gets a check and gives the pattern to the giant stained glass
company.  He's tightening the lug nuts on the new tires on the Pinto one
day when a man in a black suit arrives behind him.  He says in a stern
voice, "Big Brother would like to see you now.  You have used American
Bevel Designer software to create a bevel for profit.  You have violated
the agreement.  You must come with me to receive your punishment..."

And off Johnny goes, to meet Big Brother and accept his punishment for
violating the licensing agreement, losing his 19" Zenith television set
(so that he can no longer watch Seinfel and Friends) among other things.


Folks, do we get the idea of the licensing agreement?

> 
> I think what you have said is a disservice to American Bevel, Inc. and
> to anyone who might think your opinion has merit.

Well, of course it is a disservice to American Bevel.  Anyone who openly
criticizes a product in a public forum can't be helping business. 
However, I believe you did as much of a disservice to yourself by
opening this letter with vulgarity (to show your unequalled
professionalism) and your inability to accept criticism. 

Don't you think that you are being a little hasty when you say that
people think my idea has merit.  That's an insult to anyone in this
group.  Or can Big Brother read minds now too?

> 
> To imply that we copied Corel Draw does not even warrant a reply.
> 

It should warrant a reply.  I'd be pretty darn sure that Corel's lawyers
would be interested in hearing how you managed to copy the "look and
feel" of their software.  Of course, try telling them that it doesn't
warrant a reply.  I'd love to see your face on CNN or NBC News escorted
into a courtroom as the largest business in Canada socked you one right
in the kisser.


> It is easy to sit on the sidelines. If you do not like our "Designer"
> program then don't use it. Better yet why don't you try writing one
> yourself and let us look at it.

Sure, I can take the time and expense to sit down and write a program
such as the one you created.  But it would take less than 32 minutes of
my valuable time to run down the road to the local computer store and
pick up Corel Draw.  After all, what's the difference?

> 
> We released the "Designer" program in October. Since that date there
> have been 5,234 downloads of our Demo version, and we have sold 654
> copies of "Designer".
> 

But 4,670 people decided it wasn't worth purchasing, or have Corel Draw.

> There has only been one complaint.
> 
> I would think this is a pretty good beginning.
> 
> Say what you might, I have spent 32 minutes to long on this subject.
> 
> I am sorry and embarrassed to have used the 'bungi' forum for this rely.

Oh, don't forget about embarrassing yourself.

> 
> B. Rgds,
> 
> Richard Ashoff
> American Bevel, Inc.

Have a very pleasant day.
Charles

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--------------30E3BE04AAD--

----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 08:28:49 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vxbLx-0001LGa; Thu, 20 Feb 97 08:28 PST
X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:44:54 +0000
Message-ID: <199702201628.QAA08519@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Sorry Albert,
I didn't confuse the messenger (how could one possibly).My  Short-hand 
language was at fault.
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Albert wrote:
 You've confused the messenger with the message.  That was 
someone *else's press release, one that I received and merely passed 
along ... or is that what you meant?

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 08:28:52 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vxbLx-0001KZa; Thu, 20 Feb 97 08:28 PST
X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas (Name?)
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:44:54 +0000
Message-ID: <199702201628.QAA08524@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Joyce and all "Bunginians"

Not that I would dare to pronounce myself as an expert on American 
pronounciation.... but yes, that's what I sort of thought of myself 
Bung- (as in bottle stopper/cork) -inian (as in Virg-inia)
Elisabeth 'n Toby
   
Joyce wrote:
Can we have the correct pronunciation for "Bunginian"?  Is it like 
Virginian?  I kinda like that word....

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 10:03:27 1997
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X-Path: uninet.net!mcastle
From: mcastle@uninet.net (Martin Castle)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: What do you know?
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:02:47 -0500
Message-ID: <v01540b00af3241c76f26@[206.137.208.27]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I just got  flyer from Artisans a wholesale stained glass company out of
Colorado, with some great prices. Prices I have never seen before for foil,
solder and irons. My question is has any body dealt with them and are they
for real. Thanks for the information Martin

Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941

207 382 6207                  207 382 6207

Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
Islesboro Central School      Unity College
PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
Islesboro Maine 04848

207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220

207 734 8159 Fax

email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net

You can't be lost if you don't care where you are.








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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 10:47:52 1997
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X-Path: americanbevel.com!ab
From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: What do you know?
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:51:14 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.25114.0>
References: <<v01540b00af3241c76f26@[206.137.208.27]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Artisans has been a distributor of American Bevel Clusters for over ten
years.

You will find them to be a very reliable distributor.

Tell them we said hello.

B. Rgds,

American Bevel, Inc.

Martin Castle wrote:
> 
> I just got  flyer from Artisans a wholesale stained glass company out of
> Colorado, with some great prices. Prices I have never seen before for foil,
> solder and irons. My question is has any body dealt with them and are they
> for real. Thanks for the information Martin
> 
> Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
> 135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
> Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941
> 
> 207 382 6207                  207 382 6207
> 
> Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
> Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
> Islesboro Central School      Unity College
> PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
> Islesboro Maine 04848
> 
> 207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220
> 
> 207 734 8159 Fax
> 
> email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net
> 
> You can't be lost if you don't care where you are.
> 
> ----
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----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 12:33:52 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: What do you know?
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:32:30 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702202032.OAA17930@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 10:51 AM 2/20/97 -0800, Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
>Artisans has been a distributor of American Bevel Clusters for over ten
>years.
>
>You will find them to be a very reliable distributor.
>
>Tell them we said hello.
>
>B. Rgds,
>
>American Bevel, Inc.
>
>Martin Castle wrote:
>> 
>> I just got  flyer from Artisans a wholesale stained glass.............


  So I guess that's the last word eh ??? An endorsement, without disclaimer
or reservation, from a manufacturer for a distibutor that stocks the
manufacturer's product. Kind of a "tell em Joe sent ya" thing?
 
I am uncomfortable with your tone in this and previous posts and I probably
won't purchase any of your products in the future. If the buck stops with
you Mr. Ashoff there you have it. If not then I can only hope your company
does not endorse this arrogant style you seem to favor.

Martin, I think I would wait to hear from PURCHASESERS on this list and
their experiences with Artisans before making any decisions. 

Of course you know that already :-)

Len

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 12:55:14 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:54:36 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.105436.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I vote for soft if it's reaonably simple to access.  If I need to buy extra
software to get at them, then I'll have to pass on this.

Susie
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 13:20:08 1997
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From: Tomi Reneau <reneau@fls.infi.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: What do you know?
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:22:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.11224.0>
References: <<1997Feb20.25114.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: InfiNet
Precedence: bulk

Does Artisians have a Web Page where we can go ?
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 15:16:46 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas (Name?)
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:32:56 +0000
Message-ID: <199702202316.XAA25167@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Joyce and all "Bunginians"

Not that I would dare to pronounce myself as an expert on American 
pronounciation.... but yes, that's what I sort of thought of myself 
Bung- (as in bottle stopper/cork) -inian (as in Virg-inia)
Elisabeth 'n Toby
   
Joyce wrote:
Can we have the correct pronunciation for "Bunginian"?  Is it like 
Virginian?  I kinda like that word....

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 15:16:54 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:32:56 +0000
Message-ID: <199702202316.XAA25160@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Sorry Albert,
I didn't confuse the messenger (how could one possibly).My  Short-hand 
language was at fault.
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Albert wrote:
 You've confused the messenger with the message.  That was 
someone *else's press release, one that I received and merely passed 
along ... or is that what you meant?

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 15:44:29 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: What do you know?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:50:06 +0000
Message-ID: <199702202343.SAA04836@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> From:          Tomi Reneau <reneau@fls.infi.net>
> To:            glass@bungi.com
> Subject:       Re: What do you know?
> Date:          Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:22:04 -0500
> Reply-to:      glass@bungi.com
> Organization:  InfiNet

> Does Artisians have a Web Page where we can go ?

Do you mean: 

                     Artisans Wholesale Stained Glass, 666 Buchtel Boulevard,
                     Denver CO 80210. Phone: (303) 777-5177. (800)
                     525-9008. Fax: (303) 777-0161. 

Not that I'm aware of.  Everyone *else we're aware of is included in 
the new Sources Guide at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm
You would just look Artisans up under "A". 
We just put it all up this week. Enjoy!

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 15:44:31 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:50:06 +0000
Message-ID: <199702202343.SAA04865@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


> I didn't confuse the messenger (how could one possibly).My  Short-hand 
> language was at fault.
> Elisabeth 'n Toby

Oh, I don't know. I get confused pretty easily these days. Must be 
early onset senility. <s>

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 16:10:21 1997
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From: "Kathy Sagy" <reflections@brinet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:06:57 -0600
Message-ID: <199702210012.TAA12540@bones.brinet.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Both

KSagy

----------
> From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Glass Atlas Vote
> Date: Wednesday, February 19, 1997 12:01 AM
> 
> Ok, folks in case you missed the message in among all the other
> stuff I am collecting the votes on the Glass Atlas.  The deadline for
> receiving you vote is March 1. Indicate whether you vote for producing a
> hard copy (book version), soft copy(computer download), or both.  This
> will be much easier if you will write hard, soft or both so I don't have
> to read between all the lines to figure out what it is that you are
> voting for.  Place the words Glass Atlas Vote on you message line too. 
> All three choices are running neck and neck at the moment with ten total
> votes received so far.   Please send your votes to me at
> fishbait@televar.com
> Bonnie Clark
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 17:38:14 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Creative castings question
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:35:58 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.13558.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.14128.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi
	My next question.  I received a "Le Petit Gargoyle" that I
ordered and was disappointed to find there is no slot for the wings.  No
real instructions, and the pattern is different than the picture in the
catalog.  With my limited artistic ability, I think even I can draw some
wings, but I was concerend about there being no groove that the wings fit
into.  I've done two other figures.  I did a dragon where I could not get
the wings soldered to the body and finally used epoxy.  I've also done a
humming bird where I had to be careful or the body of the bird would
melt.  I guess it depends on the lead content.  Anyone done one of these
gargoyles?  Any hints for attaching the wings?

Thanks,  Jerri
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 17:38:18 1997
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From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mosiac cutter question
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:35:58 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.13558.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.14128.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

	I just received a mosiac cutter that I ordered.  Having never
used one, could someone give me some pointers?  I think they'll be great
for cutting corners of to get pieces to fit, but I cut a long strip and
then tried cutting that into little tile, background pieces.  The cuts
are slightly curved.  I was expecting to be able to cut little tile-like
pieces for backgrounds.  Is that how they cut, or is it me?  Thanks.

Jerri
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 17:59:17 1997
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From: Redware1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosiac cutter question
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:57:45 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.155745.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jerri,

I also just received a pair of mosaic cutters just yesterday.  It is great
how they cut so easily, but many of my pieces are also curved.  I really do
not want to have to grind each one square.  Any suggestions anyone?

Diane
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 20 18:22:50 1997
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X-Path: americanbevel.com!ab
From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Apology
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:26:15 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb20.102615.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Dear Group;

I would like to apologize for my resent actions.

There was no excuse for my language or tone and I extend my regrets for
both.

We have worked on "Designer" for the past two years and are very excited
about the response we have received.

I have yet to learn, to not take criticism personally.

What was said about "Designer" is not true. 

I should have said that I regret that some people find our products
unacceptable, and left it alone. I will try to do better next time.

Re: Our copyright

Our lawyers wrote it and it probably protects everything. It is not
mente to inhibit anyone's creative sprit. If our copyright interferes
with anything, anyone wants to create, give us a call and we will work
it out.

Tel: 714.440.0157

We created "Designer" to help people make and sell Stained Glass. We
hope it is excepted in that sprit.

Again, please except my apology for my past tone and choice of language.

B. Rgds,

Richard Ashoff
American Bevel, Inc.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 04:15:27 1997
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas (Name?)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 07:17:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.21710.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Being a Virginian, I'll butt in here. Non-Virginians and Hollywood say, 
<Vir-gin-yun> while folks from around here say <Virginny-in>. I kind of like Bunginny-in. :) Sounds exotic and foriegn.

Linda Campbell


Joyce wrote:
Can we have the correct pronunciation for "Bunginian"?  Is it like 
Virginian?  I kinda like that word....



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M(N4MP .@=ZLF,!& =B8P="!@( 6AUQ>@'C$=X6XEL&,',"N ,P(@*_(@(BGD
M'T$B/_8@'X $(&D%0"F3(N4>Y_\T$BD#'L IDS& ,L EX 6P_&0N-X$N3R,?
M&]4=YCBE!1;!`#N ``,`$! ``````P`1$ 0```! ``<P(&=>(_$?O % ``@P
>(&=>(_$?O $>`#T``0````4```!213H@`````!G4
`
end

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 04:24:31 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: 21 Feb 97 07:20:04 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.12204.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I frame most of my larger copper foil pieces in zinc U channel.  Then insert
that into Northern Hardwood's oak framing for copper foil stained glass windows.
I do not run the reinforcing into the wood.  That type of reinforcing is
appropriate for leaded windows.

...Christie

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 06:05:53 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas (Name?)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:00:50 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970117063827.284f67f6@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 But then the g sound would have to change to a J sound.... Meg

>Bung- (as in bottle stopper/cork) -inian (as in Virg-inia)
>Elisabeth 'n Toby
>   
>Joyce wrote:
>Can we have the correct pronunciation for "Bunginian"?  Is it like 
>Virginian?  I kinda like that word....
>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
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>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 06:06:28 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Glass Atlas (Name?)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:00:54 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970117063830.18a7eea2@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thats what I've been saying to myself! Meg

A
>while folks from around here say <Virginny-in>. I kind of like Bunginny-in.
:) Sounds exotic and foriegn.
>
>Linda Campbell
>
>
>Joyce wrote:
>Can we have the correct pronunciation for "Bunginian"?  Is it like 
>Virginian?  I kinda like that word....
>
>
>
>begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
>M>)\^(@L,`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0`
>M`@````(``@`!!) &``@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/
>M`0```#T`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC
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>M`!X``3 !````$@```"=G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VTG`````@$+, $````5````
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>M`#$(`02 `0`8````4D4Z($=L87-S($%T;&%S("A.86UE/RD`,0<!!8 #``X`
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>M@ $`(0```$,X1D$P13 V0CDX0D0P,3%"0D4P,#!$1# Q,34Y-4,X`#D'`0.0
>M!@! `P``$@````L`(P```````P`F```````+`"D```````,`-@``````0 `Y
>M`"!(5"GQ'[P!'@!P``$````8````4D4Z($=L87-S($%T;&%S("A.86UE/RD`
>M`@%Q``$````6`````;P?\2E4!@[ZR8NY$="[X #=`165R ``'@`># $````%
>M````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!(```!L8V)E;&Q ;65M86-H+F-O;0````,`
>M!A"!/^T3`P`'$ <!```>``@0`0```&4```!"14E.1T%625)'24Y)04XL24Q,
>M0E545$E.2$5214Y/3BU625)'24Y)04Y304Y$2$],3%E73T]$4T%9+#Q625(M
>M1TE.+5E53E=(24Q%1D],2U-&4D]-05)/54Y$2$5215-!63Q6``````(!"1 !
>M````QP$``,,!``#I`@``3%I&=6SS]K#_``H!#P(5`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D"`&-H
>M"L!S970R-P8`!L,"@S(#Q0(`<')"<1'B<W1E;0*#,[<"Y <3`H,T$LP4Q7T*
>M@(L(SPG9.Q>?,C4U`H '"H$-L0M@;F<Q,#.O%% +"A5B# %C`$ @"H>O"V04
>M40OR$U!O$]!C!4 $0F4+@&<@82!6&&ER9PN !S!N+"!(22=L`R!B=0) (,D+
>M@"!H!)!E+@>P`B".+1[G!" `<&0@2 ;P$&QY=V\$<"!S84YY'W *CQU/(#P>
>MX2T!'Q$M>75N/B!WDF@#$&4@`A!L:P0@_P-2'K #8"6P(= @8B*")0-1'Q%N
>M>2T+@#X@H$D,(&L+@"'0;V8@;'1I:R8P0B6P*$8@H#I.*08`)R($(&5X'@!I
>M[F,AHP(0"(%G*H BY2+E!DPI(1[ 0V%M<&(.91^P+(PBY4IO>6-U)C!W'?(Z
>M(N4MP .@=ZLF,!& =B8P="!@( 6AUQ>@'C$=X6XEL&,',"N ,P(@*_(@(BGD
>M'T$B/_8@'X $(&D%0"F3(N4>Y_\T$BD#'L IDS& ,L EX 6P_&0N-X$N3R,?
>M&]4=YCBE!1;!`#N ``,`$! ``````P`1$ 0```! ``<P(&=>(_$?O % ``@P
>>(&=>(_$?O $>`#T``0````4```!213H@`````!G4
>`
>end
>
>----
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>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 06:53:31 1997
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From: "Paula Nelson" <pjnjril@email6.starnetinc.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosiac cutter question
Summary: Authenticated sender is <pjnjril@mailp.starnetinc.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:59:09 +0000
Message-ID: <199702211454.OAA19320@email6.starnetinc.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: vom Uitland rottz at the Glass Dog Studio
Precedence: bulk

> I also just received a pair of mosaic cutters just yesterday.  It is great
> how they cut so easily, but many of my pieces are also curved.  I really do
> not want to have to grind each one square.  Any suggestions anyone?
 
I have the same problem, but it kinda seems to be how you position 
the glass in the wheels. I haven't hit on the solution yet, and am 
anticipating someone to clear this up also <S>.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 07:03:16 1997
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From: mcFrenzy <pristine@gr.cns.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: WARNING! AB Designer install problem (WAS Re: Apology)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:55:20 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.45520.0>
References: <<1997Feb20.102615.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> 
> Dear Group;
> 
> I would like to apologize for my resent actions.

sorry I missed this thread. 

I HAD MicroGrafix Designer 2.0 installed on my system. After installing
American Bevel Designer there was a conflict and now both programs are
screwed up. The AB Designer DEMO install software does not work
properly. you may have to move files or change install paths to get it
to work.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 07:08:51 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Creative castings question
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:07:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.575.0>
References: <<1997Feb21.13558.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jerri M Roey wrote:
> 
> Hi
>         My next question.  I received a "Le Petit Gargoyle" that I
> ordered and was disappointed to find there is no slot for the wings.  No
> real instructions, and the pattern is different than the picture in the
> catalog.  With my limited artistic ability, I think even I can draw some
> wings, but I was concerend about there being no groove that the wings fit
> into.  I've done two other figures.  I did a dragon where I could not get
> the wings soldered to the body and finally used epoxy.  I've also done a
> humming bird where I had to be careful or the body of the bird would
> melt.  I guess it depends on the lead content.  Anyone done one of these
> gargoyles?  Any hints for attaching the wings?
> 
> Thanks,  Jerri
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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i would assume you would just solder them on. i never used them but that
would be the most logical. try contacting the company, maybe they're on
the net. or look very carefully at the picture (there should be a
picture somewhere.)

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 07:11:25 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosiac cutter question
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:09:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.5947.0>
References: <<1997Feb21.13558.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jerri M Roey wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>         I just received a mosiac cutter that I ordered.  Having never
> used one, could someone give me some pointers?  I think they'll be great
> for cutting corners of to get pieces to fit, but I cut a long strip and
> then tried cutting that into little tile, background pieces.  The cuts
> are slightly curved.  I was expecting to be able to cut little tile-like
> pieces for backgrounds.  Is that how they cut, or is it me?  Thanks.
> 
> Jerri
> ----
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i vicki payne use it, it just bites off in accurate chunks. though if
you have to cut up a bunch of really tiny pieces, it should work just
fine.
-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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 - How to Fix Mistakes
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 07:14:00 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosiac cutter question
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:12:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.51225.0>
References: <<1997Feb20.155745.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Redware1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Jerri,
> 
> I also just received a pair of mosaic cutters just yesterday.  It is great
> how they cut so easily, but many of my pieces are also curved.  I really do
> not want to have to grind each one square.  Any suggestions anyone?
> 
> Diane
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

well, if you want them square, i would'nt use that cutter. i would first
use a strip cutter, then something with a stop on it and cut out the
squares. the mosiac cutters are mainly good for breaking off chunks of
glass to give you the more "traditional" broken up look type mosiac. at
one point i'll probably get one, but for now my tile nippers are working
just fine.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 07:19:08 1997
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X-Path: email6.starnetinc.com!pjnjril
From: "Paula Nelson" <pjnjril@email6.starnetinc.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Eye Software
Summary: Authenticated sender is <pjnjril@mailp.starnetinc.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:24:41 +0000
Message-ID: <199702211520.PAA19851@email6.starnetinc.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: vom Uitland rottz at the Glass Dog Studio
Precedence: bulk

> If I understand correctly-  If I create a pattern in "Glass Eye" I can
> export the design in several different format extensions-i.e. PCX, JPEG,
> ETC.  But the program is unable to read and manipulate any other format
> than the Glass Eye format. i.e. a design I created in Corel Draw, one
> that I have scanned into the computer from one of my drawings, and it
> cannot read and use a piece of 'clip art' Is this correct???

True, sorta <G>. The Glass Eye will recognise .BMP or .DIB formats 
to use as a *background*. What I have done (and what it is able to 
do) is to scan in a design -or- import as a background a photo that I 
would like to use. From there you have to *trace* with the program 
over the design/photo and use that. It works and you have the ability 
to put any twist into the design that you want... I like it, but I'm 
also always looking for a better way <G>.
Paula
pjnjril@ngai.com

The Glass Dog Studio - featuring Rottweilers in Glass
(708) 399-6791 VoiceMail Pager

My inspiration is located at http://pwp.starnetinc.com/pjnjril/uitland.htm
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 07:50:45 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: WARNING! AB Designer install problem (WAS Re: Apology)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:46:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.54638.0>
References: <<1997Feb21.45520.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Dare I make a comment??  I am running Win95 on a Pentium machine-32 meg
RAM with 2 gig hard drive.  (Due to an error I was unaware of, the Win95
install did not work properly-and a couple others) I reformatted the
hard drive (not a big problem, I keep good back ups)  I now have a
'clean' machine.  I have DL and installed both demo's (American Bevel &
Glass Eye)  They both installed fine-and have no conflicts with other
programs.  I actually really like both programs, but due to cost can
only afford to buy one.  So I will "play" with both this week and buy
the one that suits my way of working best.  I am finding the 'reviews'
that were posted in IGGA on bungi.com accurate.  And I am ignoring the
little bruhaha going on between a couple of members and American Bevel's
author.  I will decide for myself which suits my studio and plans
best-thats why demos on software are great.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 07:59:13 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Eye Software
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:55:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.5557.0>
References: <<199702211520.PAA19851@email6.starnetinc.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Paula,

Thanks for the input, I was wondering if it could do exactly what you
have explained,  I am between scanners right now, and don't have one to
experiment with.  I will try a photograph from one of my other programs
already in the computer,and see how this works.

Thanks Again, I really appreaciate the input.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Paula Nelson wrote:
> 
> > If I understand correctly-  If I create a pattern in "Glass Eye" I can
> > export the design in several different format extensions-i.e. PCX, JPEG,
> > ETC.  But the program is unable to read and manipulate any other format
> > than the Glass Eye format. i.e. a design I created in Corel Draw, one
> > that I have scanned into the computer from one of my drawings, and it
> > cannot read and use a piece of 'clip art' Is this correct???
> 
> True, sorta <G>. The Glass Eye will recognise .BMP or .DIB formats
> to use as a *background*. What I have done (and what it is able to
> do) is to scan in a design -or- import as a background a photo that I
> would like to use. From there you have to *trace* with the program
> over the design/photo and use that. It works and you have the ability
> to put any twist into the design that you want... I like it, but I'm
> also always looking for a better way <G>.
> Paula
> pjnjril@ngai.com
> 
> The Glass Dog Studio - featuring Rottweilers in Glass
> (708) 399-6791 VoiceMail Pager
> 
> My inspiration is located at http://pwp.starnetinc.com/pjnjril/uitland.htm
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 09:18:42 1997
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From: "Paula Nelson" <pjnjril@email6.starnetinc.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Eye Software
Summary: Authenticated sender is <pjnjril@mailp.starnetinc.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:24:16 +0000
Message-ID: <199702211719.RAA22228@email6.starnetinc.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: vom Uitland rottz at the Glass Dog Studio
Precedence: bulk

> Thanks for the input, I was wondering if it could do exactly what you
> have explained,  I am between scanners right now, and don't have one to
> experiment with.  I will try a photograph from one of my other programs
> already in the computer,and see how this works.

Good hunting... it's a nice program - tech assistance for 3.1 isn't 
what is should be (my humble <snort> opinion) but that's okay <G>. If 
you need more indepth info, just yell...


Paula
pjnjril@ngai.com

The Glass Dog Studio - featuring Rottweilers in Glass
(708) 399-6791 VoiceMail Pager

My inspiration is located at http://pwp.starnetinc.com/pjnjril/uitland.htm
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 10:02:04 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas Votes
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:58:17 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.15817.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Keep those votes coming.  There are thirty-nine votes in now.  We are
still running pretty close on two of the choices.  
Bonnie
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 10:41:15 1997
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From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "fake" stained glass
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:40:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970221134206.32d70d3a@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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    Hello ...  !!
                        Everyone is very quiet  ... or .... I have somehow
gotten disconnected from the list.   
                        Next weekend I am going to take Mary's advise and
take a look at the Tiffany mosaic  while I am in Philadelphia.  I will let
you know what I saw... thanks and have a good weekend ... (if you are all
out there)
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life, Cornell University
255-5960

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 15:33:03 1997
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From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: New Articles Online
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:32:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702212332.SAA11337@digital.net>
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New Articles from Glass Craftsman and Stained Glass Magazine are online at
Art Glass World (www.artglassworld.com)

Glass Craftsman---
        Outstanding Examples of the Glassblasters Art - by Norm Dobbins
Sandblasted glass takes center stage as Norm  spotlights some
of the innovative work being done today. 
        Do the Nineties Belong to U.S. Glass? - by Peter McGrain
Join Peter as he takes us on a tour of the best and the brightest US 
Stained Glass. 
        Breathtaking Bevels - by Joe Porcelli 
What's being done with bevels? Take a look at some of the most exciting
work being done by today's glass artists and designers. 
        Lamps...One Hundred Years Later - by Al Husted
Louis Tiffany wouldn't believe his eyes. Take a look at what today's        
lampmakers are up to. 

Stained Glass Magazine---

        Protective Glazing for Stained Glass Windows - First in a series of
articles which will examine the findings of Inspired Partnerships' study of
protective glazing in the stained glass industry.
        The History of Protective Glazing - This is the second part of
Stained Glass Magazine's look at Inspired Partnerships landmark study
of protective glazing.
        Winter Issue of Stained Glass Magazine Preview - Take a look at
the informative, entertaining articles in the upcoming feature-packed
Winter issue. 

Read these and other informative articles and learn about these 
publications by visiting Glass Craftsman at 
http://www.artglassworld.com/mag/gcraft/gcraft.html and Stained Glass 
Magazine at http://www.artglassworld.com/mag/sglass/sglass.html.
================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 15:35:26 1997
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From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:32:20 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.133220.0>
References: <<1997Feb20.161619.0>>
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Mary J Austin wrote:
> 
> Thanks for you reply. You can fax me at 1-317-888-2548. What I need is
> just to use for the purpose of making halo's and hoops for hanging
> stained glass sun catchers. Thanks again.
> Mary
> 
Mary,
I faxed out the information early this morning. I hope you received it.
Elenie
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 16:02:30 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: WARNING! AB Designer install problem (WAS Re: Apology)
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 00:18:37 +0000
Message-ID: <199702220002.AAA25489@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Lee, et al,
Good for you! Well said! But I did find Richard's apology both 
gracious and acceptable. ANYONE can get "a bit hot under the collar" 
occasionally. I have kept out of THAT particular bruhaha quite 
intentionally; I don't know the programme, I don't know the demo, nor 
am I as yet sufficiently "computer literate" to pronounce on CAD soft 
ware.
As I have already posted earlier, I received a Windows 3.11 
"GlassEye" programme to evaluate, now almost a year ago and struggled 
my way through it. The struggles were more because of my own "illiteracy" 
rather than due to inadequacies of the GlassEye programme.
That there are some restrictions in the GlassEye is indisputable,  
and Drgonfly are the first ones to admit this. But I know that they 
are quietly working away in a darkened corner to overcome these too.
First of all,  I only have "Paintshop Pro" and "Paint" in amongst the 
innards of my computer, so I am not too bothered whether or not I can 
interchange from Corel this or that or something else.
Secondly, I don't have a dedicated scanner (a financial toss-up 
between saving for a decent colour printer or a scanner. The printer 
won!). So what I have done is, to turn my fax machine into a kind of a 
scanner. This of course only works in black & white and I can only 
handle A4 sizes max. Kris - my computer guru - fixed me up with a 
little box (no bigger than a packet of cigarrettes) between my fax 
machine and the computer. This way I can fax drawings from my fax 
machine into my own computer.Then import drawings into "Paint 
Shop Pro", clean them up, sharpen the lines and export them into 
GlassEye. Once in GlassEye I can then draw on top of them and save 
that file as a GlassEye file. NOW I can begin to play......
It sounds a laborious process, but it is both possible and feasible.
One of my early mistakes in this procedure was that I by-passed 
 the cleaning-up process in "Paint Shop Pro". This meant that 
it took forever and a day to download into GlassEye. (The fax-image 
was simply too "dirty")
I by-passed it, because I simply didn't know how to use the 
cleaning-up process - a friend of mine showed me, who has a passion 
for graphics,  video designs and so on.
(Mike Wilks!!! That's what I have been trying to set time aside to 
tell you!!).
I have started to use GlassEye more and more; not so much currently 
perhaps for my own work, but to prepare designs and ideas for my 
students.  I need to have a selection of simple designs for that very 
FRST panel that my students make. For my own work, I am still working 
with paper and pencil.
But there again, this time last year, I was hammering away on my old 
286 Computer.......
So as you say, Lee, it is very much a question of how we work 
individually as to what suits us best....
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Lee Boe wrote:
(snip)
 but due to cost can
only afford to buy one.  So I will "play" with both this week and buy
the one that suits my way of working best.  I am finding the 'reviews'
that were posted in IGGA on bungi.com accurate.  And I am ignoring the
little bruhaha going on between a couple of members and American Bevel's
author.  I will decide for myself which suits my studio and plans
best-thats why demos on software are great.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 16:02:32 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas (Name?)
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 00:18:37 +0000
Message-ID: <199702220002.AAA25704@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Meg et al,
....Hmmmm... yes.... I see what you mean... I visualized it with a 
"g"-sound and the final "a"-sound pronounced as an a, e.g. 
bunGiniAn... if this phonetic improvisation makes sense...
:-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby
 


Meg wrote:
But then the g sound would have to change to a J sound....
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 16:13:09 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 19:13:00 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.19130.0>
References: <<1997Feb18.14128.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

I vote on cyberspace patterns with appropriate instructions on
downloading in a format that is accessible to both PC and Mac users. If
the collection gets big enough and good enough to warrant the publishing
costs, I vote that next step be taken.

Hilary
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 17:05:27 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Visiting Philadelphia
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 20:05:22 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.20522.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970221134206.32d70d3a@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
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Barbara,

While you are Philadelphia, the Unitarian-Universalist church in Center
City has Tiffany and LaFarge windows. They have a web page:
www.libertynet.org:80/~firstuu/

They are located on Chestnut at 21st street. Happy viewing!

Hilary

> ...
> take a look at the Tiffany mosaic  while I am in Philadelphia.  I will let
> you know what I saw... thanks and have a good weekend ... (if you are all
> out there)
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Barbara J. Snell
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 18:35:47 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Hi Elisabeth
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:31:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.163142.0>
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Hi Elisabeth,

Good to hear from you.  I know you are super busy with the trip coming
up.  Remember you have a "home away from home" at my humble place when
ever you can make the trip to the USA.  Peaches sends a chirp to Toby. I
will send by snail mail some interesting things for you to look over,
about this area, brocures and such.  Today I have spent mostly doing
computer maintenance, defraging, cleaning up unused programs etc.  Still
not sure which of the two programs will work best for me.  I am 7 days
away from a 'gem & mineral' club show I am doing, and don't seem to be
getting all the stuff I need for the show together. Or "Can I do 12
Jewerly boxes in one day???" <g>  

Best Always,

Lee

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Lee, et al,
> Good for you! Well said! But I did find Richard's apology both
> gracious and acceptable. ANYONE can get "a bit hot under the collar"
> occasionally.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 19:06:52 1997
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From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosiac cutter question
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:03:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.17337.0>
References: <<1997Feb21.13558.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jerri M Roey wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>         I just received a mosiac cutter that I ordered.  Having never
> used one, could someone give me some pointers?  I think they'll be great
> for cutting corners of to get pieces to fit, but I cut a long strip and
> then tried cutting that into little tile, background pieces.  The cuts
> are slightly curved.  I was expecting to be able to cut little tile-like
> pieces for backgrounds.  Is that how they cut, or is it me?  Thanks.
> 
> Jerri
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Jerri,
The mosaic cutter is used for cutting very rough shapes. You should use
the cutter like scissors. Don't tilt the cutter. Keep it straight and it
should prevent you from getting those curves. Hope this helps.
Elenie
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 21 22:14:20 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Have I been a bad boy???
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 01:04:13 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb21.20413.0>
References: <<1997Feb14.142241.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

About a week ago I was flooded with messages about someones mail box
being full, and mail was getting bounced. Since then I have received NO
mail from this list. I sent mail back and forth to Mike Savad, and he
says he has been getting posts. Did I offend someone, or did the bounced
mail bounce me from the list? Please advise.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 02:46:44 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 05:19:36 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb22.131936.0>
References: <<1997Feb20.161619.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I recieved your fax and am attempting to put together an order. Thanks
again for all your help.
Mary




On Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:32:20 -0500 Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
writes:
>Mary J Austin wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for you reply. You can fax me at 1-317-888-2548. What I need 
>is
>> just to use for the purpose of making halo's and hoops for hanging
>> stained glass sun catchers. Thanks again.
>> Mary
>> 
>Mary,
>I faxed out the information early this morning. I hope you received 
>it.
>Elenie
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 10:29:13 1997
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From: StnGlsTres@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Foil Reinforcement
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:27:49 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb22.82749.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I just wanted to say "thank you" to everyone for the answers on foil
reinforcement - I have a light bulb shining over my head as I type!  Now I
get it!  :-)

Thanks again...

Stephanie
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 10:39:25 1997
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From: David Cansler <dcans@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Votes
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:33:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb22.83315.0>
References: <<1997Feb21.15817.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Bonnie Clark wrote:
> 
> Keep those votes coming.  There are thirty-nine votes in now.  We are
> still running pretty close on two of the choices.
> Bonnie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Hi everyone I'm new to this list and I'm wondering what the "Glass Atls
Vote" is about? I really like to vote.<G> Thanks.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 11:15:38 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Have I been a bad boy???
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 14:13:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb22.9130.0>
References: <<1997Feb21.20413.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

shyguy wrote:
> 
> About a week ago I was flooded with messages about someones mail box
> being full, and mail was getting bounced. Since then I have received NO
> mail from this list. I sent mail back and forth to Mike Savad, and he
> says he has been getting posts. Did I offend someone, or did the bounced
> mail bounce me from the list? Please advise.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i'm responding to both bungi and your e-mail, to see if your getting
this... your message sent to the group ok, but we'll see if your
recieving ok.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 12:39:16 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: What Is The Bungie Glass Atlas?
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:37:14 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb22.153714.0>
References: <<1997Feb22.83315.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

David Cansler wrote:

> Hi everyone I'm new to this list and I'm wondering what the "Glass Atls
> Vote" is about? I really like to vote.<G> Thanks.

Hello, David.

You couldn't have joined at a more opportune moment. We are in the
process of all contributing **original** patterns to the "Bunginnian
Glass Atlas of Patterns." However, at present, we are voting on whether
to have the patterns in cyberspace, on paper, or both.

To play with us, you need to vote on the above question by sending a
message to the board with the subject of Glass Atlas Vote. And you can
send your patterns to:

Joyce Moran
Garden of Glass
501 N. Madriver St.
Bellefontaine, OH  43311

Or, if you already have them in your computer in jpeg or gif format,
email them to:

joyce@bright.net

There is also a distinct possibility that volunteers will be needed for
some thing or another in the future. Consider that fair warning.

Welcome.
Hilary
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 13:07:46 1997
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:06:57 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb22.11657.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Software please.
Maureen
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 14:46:16 1997
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From: David Cansler <dcans@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Bungie Glass Atlas
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 17:40:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb22.12405.0>
References: <<1997Feb22.153714.0>>
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I'd think both is a good idea.
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 17:08:42 1997
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: What Is The Bungie Glass Atlas?
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 17:08:31 -0800
Message-ID: <199702230108.RAA13903@norm.island.net>
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>David Cansler wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone I'm new to this list and I'm wondering what the "Glass Atls
>> Vote" is about? I really like to vote.<G> Thanks.
>
>Hello, David.
>
>You couldn't have joined at a more opportune moment. We are in the
>process of all contributing **original** patterns to the "Bunginnian
>Glass Atlas of Patterns." However, at present, we are voting on whether
>to have the patterns in cyberspace, on paper, or both.
>
>To play with us, you need to vote on the above question by sending a
>message to the board with the subject of Glass Atlas Vote. And you can
>send your patterns to:
>

As another newbie, I have a question...What is the purpose of the Glass
Atlas of Patterns?  Is it for the group's use, for commercial resale or
what?  Also if on software, would it be on disk?  I'm concerned about how
much disk space graphics takes and how full my hard drive is getting.  If on
software, using what program?

I don't have enough info to vote yet.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 20:21:13 1997
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From: "bumblebee  Stained Glass" <bumblbee@frognet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: HELLO & GREETINGS TO ALL
Summary: Authenticated sender is <bumblbee@frognet.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 23:19:42 +0000
Message-ID: <199702230420.XAA22611@froggy.frognet.net>
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    I have been lurking here for several weeks and have decided to 
come out of the closet & say hello.  My wife & I have owned & 
operated  a stained glass studio in southeast Ohio for the past 10 
yrs.  Really enjoy the art.  We do mostly comission work & teach SG 
at a nearby college.  We do windows, doors, lamps, restorations, 
lanterns, stepping stones, and try most anything new.  We have been 
using our scanner, computer, and old (woodburning) printer for 
some time. to scan , size, proportion and print our patterns to 
the size we need using a cheap $20 program we bought at Walmart. 
Good luck on your Atlas.  Good luck to all!  Paul.  
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 20:21:48 1997
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From: "bumblebee  Stained Glass" <bumblbee@frognet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gargoyl wings 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <bumblbee@frognet.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 23:19:42 +0000
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Re:  Attaching wings to the Gargoyl.  We have done several of these 
without incident.  We use Ruby Fluid for the flux.  Determine where 
you want rhe wings to attach Get a large bead of solder under the tip 
of the iron and hold it suspended just abofe the casting so the tip 
of the iron never actually touches the casting.  re-apply a 
little flux once or twice once it is good & hot.  This will help cool 
it a little so the casting doesn't melt.  Takes a lot of heat to make 
the lead accept the solder.  Once you have a spot of solder on the 
casting this will act as a "foothold" so you can build up enough 
solder to cover the base of the wings.  Build up a little solder on 
the underside of the attachment point too to help hold it from both 
directions.  Your kit should have come with a pattern.  If you can't 
find one I might have a spare lying around the studio.   Good Luck!
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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 22:11:33 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: HELLO & GREETINGS TO ALL
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 01:10:43 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb22.201043.0>
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Paul,

Could you please tell me what the name of that program is?  I'd like to check
that out too!  Thanks and welcome.

Susie

In a message dated 97-02-22 23:23:19 EST, you write:

<<   We have been 
 using our scanner, computer, and old (woodburning) printer for 
 some time. to scan , size, proportion and print our patterns to 
 the size we need using a cheap $20 program we bought at Walmart. 
 Good luck on your Atlas.  Good luck to all!  Paul.   >>

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From owner-glass Sat Feb 22 22:13:15 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Fume trap?
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 01:12:31 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb22.201231.0>
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Hello All,

I'd like everyone's opinions on the Fume Trap and/or the Smoke Absorber.  Is
there a significant difference in the way they work?  There sure is in the
price so I am wondering if they really are comparable or if the descriptions
offered in catalogs are just not very thorough.  I'd appreciate your help.
 :-)

Susie
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 23 00:41:44 1997
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From: "Maureen K. Levinson" <llp@ix5.ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 00:40:47 -0800
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I am out of town presently and want you to delete my E-Mail address:

	tax@onramp.net

I will be back in touch later.

Thanks,
Greg
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 23 05:32:27 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fume trap?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 08:38:23 +0000
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> I'd like everyone's opinions on the Fume Trap and/or the Smoke Absorber.  Is
> there a significant difference in the way they work?  There sure is in the
> price so I am wondering if they really are comparable or if the descriptions
> offered in catalogs are just not very thorough.  I'd appreciate 
your help.

Be sure to ask Monona Rossol, too. Click on the Guild's home page 
(below my name) and you'll see a link to her web site. She's a 
specialist in studio safety and an industrial hygienist.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 23 07:08:48 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fume trap?
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:06:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb23.5653.0>
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SusieHUs@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I'd like everyone's opinions on the Fume Trap and/or the Smoke Absorber.  Is
> there a significant difference in the way they work?  There sure is in the
> price so I am wondering if they really are comparable or if the descriptions
> offered in catalogs are just not very thorough.  I'd appreciate your help.
>  :-)
> 
> Susie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i have the inland model, it does'nt work very well. smoke blows through
it, and it is'nt tall enough. Hakko makes one, it's much taller but much
more expensive, i really should have gotten that one. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 23 08:22:42 1997
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From: "Paula Nelson" <pjnjril@ngai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fume trap?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <pjnjril@mailp.starnetinc.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:27:33 +0000
Message-ID: <199702231623.QAA26320@email6.starnetinc.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: vom Uitland rottz at the Glass Dog Studio
Precedence: bulk

Mike said:
> i have the inland model, it does'nt work very well. smoke blows through
> it, and it is'nt tall enough. Hakko makes one, it's much taller but much
> more expensive, i really should have gotten that one. 

I agree, mine pulls the fumes away from the board, but I almost have 
to have it right on top of the iron <G>. I'm looking for another 
type, but I'll have to see it in action first.


Paula
pjnjril@ngai.com

The Glass Dog Studio - featuring Rottweilers in Glass
(708) 399-6791 VoiceMail Pager

My inspiration is located at http://pwp.starnetinc.com/pjnjril/uitland.htm
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 23 09:56:05 1997
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From: "bumblebee  Stained Glass" <bumblbee@frognet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject:  Computer  Program
Summary: Authenticated sender is <bumblbee@frognet.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 12:54:48 +0000
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     Hi Susie,

    I actually use two programs to copy , proportion & size my 
patterns.  The first step is to use the software that came with the 
scanner to scan & crop the pattern.  This program will save it in a 
picture format ( I usually use PCX).  Now I use a program I got at 
Walmart for $19.95 called Printmaster Gold  (I've seen it other 
places too).  The purpose of the program is actually to make 
greeting cards, posters, banners, etc. I use the poster feature.  
Import the picture I have just scanned and position it on the page.  
At this point I can change the proportions if I want.  The program 
will automatically strech or shrink in  tiny steps if the 
proportions you want are different from the original.  Next step is 
to print.  You can tell the program to print any size smaller or 
larger for example 22.78" wide ( up to the size of a house!)  I have 
an old dot matrix printer.  It prints in sections putting in 
tiny line up marks so the whole thing can be scotch taped 
together.  I don't know how it compares to more expensive programs 
but it works for me &  I am happy with it.  I used to use the old 
copier method but had lots of problems with distortion. This method 
virtually eliminates that problem.  Hope you find this helpful.   
Paul.

bumblbee@frognet.net
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 23 10:18:26 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: HELLO & GREETINGS TO ALL
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:19:59 -0800
Message-ID: <199702231817.KAA29193@aphex.direct.ca>
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You wrote:
>    I have been lurking here for several weeks and have decided to 
>come out of the closet & say hello.  

Welcome aboard, & no more lurking for you. 
I purchased a scanner awhile ago, & quite frankly it acts just like my
ex-husband, works when it feels like it, sometimes it gets part way thru a
job, then it just hangs there. Then I have to reboot my whole system again.
And at other time it just purrs along. I wonder if I should just trade it in
for a better model, as I did with the ex.  I'm note sure if there is a
problem with the program or a combatibility conflict. I did find out that I
had to load the scanner first & then turn on my computer as the scanner is
the first piece of hardware my system recognizes. 
I suppose it's probably like everything else, very frustrating until you
figure it out. 
Karin

>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Feb 23 11:12:17 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Computer  Program
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:18:08 +0000
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>     I actually use two programs to copy , proportion & size my 
> patterns.  The first step is to use the software that came with the 
> scanner to scan & crop the pattern.  This program will save it in a 
> picture format ( I usually use PCX).  Now I use a program I got at 
> Walmart for $19.95 called Printmaster Gold  

They have a web site, too ... http://www.printmaster.com
and a range of low-cost software ($11.95 - $39.95, if I remember 
right) for both the PC and Mac.  Look like pretty cool tools that not 
only do what you suggest, but will handle most graphics files, too.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 23 11:14:21 1997
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From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Atlas
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:13:53 -0500
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Vote software

Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 23 16:14:16 1997
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From: Brian Morgan <bmorgan@qni.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: HELLO & GREETINGS TO ALL
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 18:14:49 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb23.121449.0>
References: <<199702231817.KAA29193@aphex.direct.ca>>
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kmccullo@direct.ca wrote:
> Welcome aboard, & no more lurking for you.
> I purchased a scanner awhile ago, & quite frankly it acts just like my
> ex-husband, works when it feels like it, sometimes it gets part way thru a
> job, then it just hangs there. Then I have to reboot my whole system again.
> And at other time it just purrs along. I wonder if I should just trade it in
> for a better model, as I did with the ex.  I'm note sure if there is a
> problem with the program or a combatibility conflict. I did find out that I
> had to load the scanner first & then turn on my computer as the scanner is
> the first piece of hardware my system recognizes.
> I suppose it's probably like everything else, very frustrating until you
> figure it out.
> Karin
> 
In reply to your scanner problems.  If your scanner is hanging up your
system it is most likely do to scanning a picture that is to larger or
at a to high of a resolution.  When you scan a picture it gets written
to your hard drive not so much into conventional memory as some people
believe.  So if you have limited hard drive space of to little RAM that
could be causing your problem.  Let me know if it onlt happens during
larger files.

Brian Morgan
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From owner-glass Sun Feb 23 16:26:10 1997
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@sagelink.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Votes
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:04:43 -0600
Message-ID: <199702240156.TAA21449@sage.sagelink.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi Bonnie,
	My vote is for both electronic and paper.

----------
> From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Glass Atlas Votes
> Date: Friday, February 21, 1997 11:58 AM
> 
> Keep those votes coming.  There are thirty-nine votes in now.  We are
> still running pretty close on two of the choices.  
> Bonnie
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 07:33:21 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:58:19 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970224100839.238f2b34@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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    Good Morning Group:

                 I vote for the patterns online with instructions to
download in a format  accessible to  PC and Mac users.  
                 When it becomes obvious that enough data has been gathered
and organized online to merit going to print then we do that...
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 07:34:17 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Scoreboard
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 07:57:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.2573.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well, this is an update on that Prairie lamp shade I'm making and a product 
I bought that is making it soooooo easy.

I searched the archives of rec.crafts.glass and found a recommendation for 
Emerald Rainbow's "Scoreboare" that was touted to be easier to use and more 
accurate than Morton's portable glass shop. Well, I haven't used Morton's 
glass shop so I can't say anything good or bad about it, but I really like 
the Scoreboard.

It is an extension of the tools I've used for years in drafting, in fact 
it's a little like a drawing table. The vertical bar stops at 90 degrees 
with plenty of space for various thickness glass and a thumb screw will 
stop it at any angle you choose. For the lamp shade, I just folded my uncut 
pattern for which ever piece I was about to cut and put it on the 
Scoreboard as a guide to set up the angle needed for the scoring guide and 
stop needed for the size. What a breeze. A simple stop to make lots of 
pieces the same size. And zip, zip I've got the thing cut out. I have never 
had such good fit. Triangles, squares, rectangles, trapazoids, all the same 
size every time.

If you are into geometric shapes and the like, you will like this. No, I 
don't have an interest in the company. I got mine from Delphi, after 
talking to the designer at Emerald Rainbow. They also make those little 
thingies to hold lamps and boxes for soldering.

Linda Campbell
Suffolk, Virginia



 

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M3F\P0F0N805 7"/_`Y%D,020!Y A(4Z4)W$*L'<SD%OB6I)M"X!"P0-A(/I$
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MT?\]9C.S") JXC!P2>$>$R9T?0;@> >1*$(B$$GQ4K(N_2+\3 N '- 64!XQ
M*Z ;P%D*A5-U#= &\&L;X%;W'=!Q( ,`82+\=^)W'1I[+Q5@&V(*A1<Q`'L`
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-`````0````````":R ``
`
end

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 07:46:54 1997
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X-Path: mail.fidnet.com!dawnm
From: Dawn <dawnm@mail.fidnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: National Glass Expo in Las Vegas
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 09:47:33 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.174733.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

	
Hi,

I am new to the group and have already benefitted greatly from the advise=
 and tips you all so helpfully give.  It is appreciated!

I was wondering if anyone had any information regarding registration fees=
 for the Glass Expo in Las Vegas in March.  I requested the information =
from Las Vegas Management last week, but have not received a reply yet. =
 I need to book my flight and hotel ASAP if I'm going, and was hoping som=
eone would have some information to share.

Does anyone who has attended one of these national expo's before have any=
  opinions about them.  Has anyone attended one put on my Las Vegas Manag=
ement before, and if so, how was it?		
	Dawn

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 08:08:57 1997
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	id m0vz2xB-0001Kia; Mon, 24 Feb 97 08:08 PST
X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scoreboard
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:07:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.6715.0>
References: <<1997Feb24.2573.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Well, this is an update on that Prairie lamp shade I'm making and a product
> I bought that is making it soooooo easy.
> 
> I searched the archives of rec.crafts.glass and found a recommendation for
> Emerald Rainbow's "Scoreboare" that was touted to be easier to use and more
> accurate than Morton's portable glass shop. Well, I haven't used Morton's
> glass shop so I can't say anything good or bad about it, but I really like
> the Scoreboard.
> 
> It is an extension of the tools I've used for years in drafting, in fact
> it's a little like a drawing table. The vertical bar stops at 90 degrees
> with plenty of space for various thickness glass and a thumb screw will
> stop it at any angle you choose. For the lamp shade, I just folded my uncut
> pattern for which ever piece I was about to cut and put it on the
> Scoreboard as a guide to set up the angle needed for the scoring guide and
> stop needed for the size. What a breeze. A simple stop to make lots of
> pieces the same size. And zip, zip I've got the thing cut out. I have never
> had such good fit. Triangles, squares, rectangles, trapazoids, all the same
> size every time.
> 
> If you are into geometric shapes and the like, you will like this. No, I
> don't have an interest in the company. I got mine from Delphi, after
> talking to the designer at Emerald Rainbow. They also make those little
> thingies to hold lamps and boxes for soldering.
> 
> Linda Campbell
> Suffolk, Virginia
> 
> 
> 
>                    Name: WINMAIL.DAT
>     Part 1.2       Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>                Encoding: x-uuencode
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


and now that you have it, regardless of what your work lookded like
before (boxes, etc), it will be improved by at least 80%. (i don't think
i ever saw your work, i'm basing it on my own work after i got the score
board.  the only thing i don't like about it is, that it only angles out
in one direction, so you have to flip the glass over to do an oposite
angle. and a quick tip: i made a mark on the bottom  (the metal part),
where i'm supposed to line up my glass cutter. this way i don't have to
line up the cut every time, (slide, lineup, slide the other way, line
up, etc). 

a friend of mine built his (it looks like), for larger sheets of glass.
it's set at only 90 degrees, and i think is around 3' long. neat idea if
you have to cut up larger sheets, and you have the space. 

i think the next thing i'll get from their company (makers of the score
board that is), will probably be the little rubber blocks. i may acually
break down and buy the 3 sets.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 08:41:02 1997
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	id m0vz3S1-0001PCa; Mon, 24 Feb 97 08:40 PST
X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Dawn <dawnm@sullivan.fidnet.com>
Subject: Re: National Glass Expo in Las Vegas
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:36:36 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.03636.0>
References: <<1997Feb24.174733.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dawn:  I plan to be there primarily for the trade show.  Your IGGA
membership should get you into the trade show.  However, if you want to
attend the Saturday night banquet you will have to pay and if you want to
attend any of the workshops, each as a fee.  I am not aware of a
registration fee for anything else.  PJ from CA.

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 09:52:13 1997
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Scoreboard
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:53:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.75318.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Mike Wrote:

a friend of mine built his (it looks like), for larger sheets of glass.
it's set at only 90 degrees, and i think is around 3' long. neat idea if
you have to cut up larger sheets, and you have the space.


Yeah, this (Scoreboard) is limited as the height of the glass that you can 
work (small problem). I can envision what your fiend's looks like. I bought 
a video by Mr. Doak (I think his name is) on cutting front surface mirror 
and he shows how to make your own board for repetitive cuts. He even goes 
to the point of making the side where you cut the glass (90 degree cuts 
only) a drop off of about a degree or so and he doesn't even have to move 
the glass to break the score. He just gives it what he calls the Rev. 
Falwell "slap" with the palm of his hand and it snaps right in place so he 
can slide the sheet over for the next score. I can see that my boxes and 
kaliedoscopes will now have a much better fit. The instructions tell you to 
do what you said about using my cutter to mark the metal bar at the bottom 
so there's no guess work about lining it up. What a great tool. Let us all 
know when you get the rubber thingies, and how you like them.

Linda Campbell
Suffolk, Virginia

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`
end

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 10:12:00 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vz4sH-0001O5a; Mon, 24 Feb 97 10:11 PST
X-Path: televar.com!fishbait
From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Vote Update
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:08:18 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.2818.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

There are now fifty votes in and things are still running close. If you
haven't voted yet I am eagerly looking for your vote.  Remember the
deadline for voting is March 1st.
                               Bonnie Clark
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 12:05:56 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vz6eU-0001bva; Mon, 24 Feb 97 12:05 PST
X-Path: digital.net!agw
From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: National Glass Expo in Las Vegas
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 15:05:19 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702242005.PAA16610@digital.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Visit their web site at http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/lvm for more
info on the show.

Jennifer

At 09:47 AM 2/24/97 PST, you wrote:
>	
>Hi,
>
>I am new to the group and have already benefitted greatly from the advise=
> and tips you all so helpfully give.  It is appreciated!
>
>I was wondering if anyone had any information regarding registration fees=
> for the Glass Expo in Las Vegas in March.  I requested the information =
>from Las Vegas Management last week, but have not received a reply yet. =
> I need to book my flight and hotel ASAP if I'm going, and was hoping som=
>eone would have some information to share.
>
>Does anyone who has attended one of these national expo's before have any=
>  opinions about them.  Has anyone attended one put on my Las Vegas Manag=
>ement before, and if so, how was it?		
>	Dawn
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 13:13:17 1997
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	id m0vz7hS-0001O6a; Mon, 24 Feb 97 13:12 PST
X-Path: ns.owlsnest.com!owl
From: owl@owlsnest.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Is Your Web Site A Secret?
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:15:26 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702241615.LAA26206@ns.owlsnest.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

     Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet?

     We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $85
     and complete the job in 2 business days.  Satisfaction is
     guaranteed!

If you have a great product, but are not getting many inquiries from
your Web site, you may not be adequately listed on the Web's search
engines and indexes.

Millions of viewers daily use these facilities to find the products
and services they are looking for.  But if your site is not listed, no
one will see it.

Listings on most of these services are free.  However, locating and
filling out the forms required to get a listing can take several days,
and most people just don't have the time to do it.

That is why we offer a web site promotion service.

WHAT'S THE DEAL?

We will submit your site to 50 indexes and search engines for $85.  We
will accept the return of this E-mail, with the form below filled out,
as an order.  We will bill you upon completion of the promotion.  Our
terms are net 15 days from date of invoice.  Satisfaction guaranteed!

HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE?

Generally, we complete the submissions within 48 hours of
receiving your order.  It can take any individual search engine or
index up to three weeks to process your submission, although most are
much faster.

WHAT SEARCH ENGINES AND INDEXES ARE INCLUDED IN THE
PROMOTION?

The list changes from time to time.  This is our current list:

Abaweb!, Alta Vista, Been There, BizWeb, Central Source Yellow Pages,
Enterpreneurs on the Web, Excite, Four11, Galaxy, I-Network I-Systems
Spiral Business Directory, I-World Web Pointer, Infoseek, Inktomi,
Innovator's Network Yellow Pages, Internet Mall, Jayde Online Directory,
Jumpcity, Jumper Hot Links, Linkmaster, Lycos, Magellan, Mega Mall,
Net-Happenings, Net Navigator, Net Mall, NTG's List, NYNEX Big Yellow,
One World Plaza, OnLine's WWWeb Index, Rex, Starting Point, Truenorth,
URL Tree, Virtual Lynx, Web Point, WebCentral, Web Venture Hotlist,
Webcrawler, Websurf, Win Mag/NetGuide Hotspots, WhatUSeek, Worldwide
Announce Archive, WWW Business Yellow Pages, World Wide Yellow Pages,
WWW Worm, YelloWWWeb.


HOW WILL I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE PROMOTED MY SITE?

When we have completed the promotion, we will send you an HTML
file as an attachment to your E-mail bill.  Save this file to your
disk, and view it through your Web browser.  It provides links to the
search engine we submitted your site to, plus any comments we received
from them when we did it.

ARE THERE ANY GUARANTEES?

We do not require prepayment.  Your satisfaction is guaranteed or
you don't pay the bill.

WHO IS OWL'S EYE PRODUCTIONS?

We are a web site promotion company located at:

   Owl's Eye Productions, Inc.
   260 E. Main Street
   Brewster, NY 10509
   Phone: (914) 278-4933
   Fax:     (914) 278-4507
   Email: owl@owlsnest.com


HOW DO I ORDER?

The easiest way to order is by e-mail.  Just hit the REPLY button on
your e-mail program and fill out the following information. (This
information will be posted to the search engines/indexes):

Your name: 
Company Name:
Address:
City:              State/Prov:     Zip/Postal Code: 
Telephone: 
Fax: 
Email address: 
URL:  http://
Site Title: 
Description (about 25 words): 
Key words (maximum of 25, in descending order of importance):

Proofs (Where shall we e-mail proofs): 

If  billing a different address, please complete the following:

Addressee: 
Company Name:
Address:
City:              State/Prov:     Zip/Postal Code: 
Telephone: 
Fax: 
Email address: 

We will bill via Email. (7224)

Terms:  By returning this document via Email, you agree as follows:
You have the authority to purchase this service on behalf of your
company.    Terms are net 15 days.  Accounts sent to collections will
be liable for collection costs.  You agree to protect and indemnify
Owl's Eye Productions, Inc. in any claim for libel, copyright
violations, plagiarism, or privacy and other suits or claims based on
the content or subject matter of  your site.

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

When we receive your order, we will input the information into
our system, and send you a proof.

After we process any corrections, we will run your promotion, capturing
any comments from search engines as we go.  We will incorporate these
into an HTML-formatted report to you, which we will attach to
your bill.
===Web Promotions=====Press Releases=====Link Exchanges=========
                 Owl's Eye Productions, Inc.
                   260 E. Main Street
                   Brewster, NY 10509
Ph: 914-278-4933  Fx: 914-278-4507  E-mail: owlseye@owlsnest.com
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 13:13:29 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vz7hS-0001Zya; Mon, 24 Feb 97 13:12 PST
X-Path: ns.owlsnest.com!owl
From: owl@owlsnest.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Is Your Web Site A Secret?
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:15:27 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702241615.LAA26209@ns.owlsnest.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

     Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet?

     We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $85
     and complete the job in 2 business days.  Satisfaction is
     guaranteed!

If you have a great product, but are not getting many inquiries from
your Web site, you may not be adequately listed on the Web's search
engines and indexes.

Millions of viewers daily use these facilities to find the products
and services they are looking for.  But if your site is not listed, no
one will see it.

Listings on most of these services are free.  However, locating and
filling out the forms required to get a listing can take several days,
and most people just don't have the time to do it.

That is why we offer a web site promotion service.

WHAT'S THE DEAL?

We will submit your site to 50 indexes and search engines for $85.  We
will accept the return of this E-mail, with the form below filled out,
as an order.  We will bill you upon completion of the promotion.  Our
terms are net 15 days from date of invoice.  Satisfaction guaranteed!

HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE?

Generally, we complete the submissions within 48 hours of
receiving your order.  It can take any individual search engine or
index up to three weeks to process your submission, although most are
much faster.

WHAT SEARCH ENGINES AND INDEXES ARE INCLUDED IN THE
PROMOTION?

The list changes from time to time.  This is our current list:

Abaweb!, Alta Vista, Been There, BizWeb, Central Source Yellow Pages,
Enterpreneurs on the Web, Excite, Four11, Galaxy, I-Network I-Systems
Spiral Business Directory, I-World Web Pointer, Infoseek, Inktomi,
Innovator's Network Yellow Pages, Internet Mall, Jayde Online Directory,
Jumpcity, Jumper Hot Links, Linkmaster, Lycos, Magellan, Mega Mall,
Net-Happenings, Net Navigator, Net Mall, NTG's List, NYNEX Big Yellow,
One World Plaza, OnLine's WWWeb Index, Rex, Starting Point, Truenorth,
URL Tree, Virtual Lynx, Web Point, WebCentral, Web Venture Hotlist,
Webcrawler, Websurf, Win Mag/NetGuide Hotspots, WhatUSeek, Worldwide
Announce Archive, WWW Business Yellow Pages, World Wide Yellow Pages,
WWW Worm, YelloWWWeb.


HOW WILL I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE PROMOTED MY SITE?

When we have completed the promotion, we will send you an HTML
file as an attachment to your E-mail bill.  Save this file to your
disk, and view it through your Web browser.  It provides links to the
search engine we submitted your site to, plus any comments we received
from them when we did it.

ARE THERE ANY GUARANTEES?

We do not require prepayment.  Your satisfaction is guaranteed or
you don't pay the bill.

WHO IS OWL'S EYE PRODUCTIONS?

We are a web site promotion company located at:

   Owl's Eye Productions, Inc.
   260 E. Main Street
   Brewster, NY 10509
   Phone: (914) 278-4933
   Fax:     (914) 278-4507
   Email: owl@owlsnest.com


HOW DO I ORDER?

The easiest way to order is by e-mail.  Just hit the REPLY button on
your e-mail program and fill out the following information. (This
information will be posted to the search engines/indexes):

Your name: 
Company Name:
Address:
City:              State/Prov:     Zip/Postal Code: 
Telephone: 
Fax: 
Email address: 
URL:  http://
Site Title: 
Description (about 25 words): 
Key words (maximum of 25, in descending order of importance):

Proofs (Where shall we e-mail proofs): 

If  billing a different address, please complete the following:

Addressee: 
Company Name:
Address:
City:              State/Prov:     Zip/Postal Code: 
Telephone: 
Fax: 
Email address: 

We will bill via Email. (7224)

Terms:  By returning this document via Email, you agree as follows:
You have the authority to purchase this service on behalf of your
company.    Terms are net 15 days.  Accounts sent to collections will
be liable for collection costs.  You agree to protect and indemnify
Owl's Eye Productions, Inc. in any claim for libel, copyright
violations, plagiarism, or privacy and other suits or claims based on
the content or subject matter of  your site.

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

When we receive your order, we will input the information into
our system, and send you a proof.

After we process any corrections, we will run your promotion, capturing
any comments from search engines as we go.  We will incorporate these
into an HTML-formatted report to you, which we will attach to
your bill.
===Web Promotions=====Press Releases=====Link Exchanges=========
                 Owl's Eye Productions, Inc.
                   260 E. Main Street
                   Brewster, NY 10509
Ph: 914-278-4933  Fx: 914-278-4507  E-mail: owlseye@owlsnest.com
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 14:25:35 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vz8pb-0001OCa; Mon, 24 Feb 97 14:25 PST
X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Is Your Web Site A Secret?
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:23:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.122349.0>
References: <<199702241615.LAA26206@ns.owlsnest.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

owl@owlsnest.com wrote:
> 
>      Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet?
> 
>      We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $85
>      and complete the job in 2 business days.  Satisfaction is
>      guaranteed!
> 
> If you have a great product, but are not getting many inquiries from
> your Web site, you may not be adequately listed on the Web's search
> engines and indexes.
> 
> Millions of viewers daily use these facilities to find the products
> and services they are looking for.  But if your site is not listed, no
> one will see it.
>........

Why is this being spammed on this group?

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 15:03:35 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vz9Q5-0001XIa; Mon, 24 Feb 97 15:02 PST
X-Path: ns.owlsnest.com!owl
From: owl@owlsnest.com
To: glass@daver.bungi.com
Subject: Is Your Web Site A Secret?
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 13:05:38 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199702241805.NAA12648@ns.owlsnest.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

     Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet?

     We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $85
     and complete the job in 2 business days.  Satisfaction is
     guaranteed!

If you have a great product, but are not getting many inquiries from
your Web site, you may not be adequately listed on the Web's search
engines and indexes.

Millions of viewers daily use these facilities to find the products
and services they are looking for.  But if your site is not listed, no
one will see it.

Listings on most of these services are free.  However, locating and
filling out the forms required to get a listing can take several days,
and most people just don't have the time to do it.

That is why we offer a web site promotion service.

WHAT'S THE DEAL?

We will submit your site to 50 indexes and search engines for $85.  We
will accept the return of this E-mail, with the form below filled out,
as an order.  We will bill you upon completion of the promotion.  Our
terms are net 15 days from date of invoice.  Satisfaction guaranteed!

HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE?

Generally, we complete the submissions within 48 hours of
receiving your order.  It can take any individual search engine or
index up to three weeks to process your submission, although most are
much faster.

WHAT SEARCH ENGINES AND INDEXES ARE INCLUDED IN THE
PROMOTION?

The list changes from time to time.  This is our current list:

Abaweb!, Alta Vista, Been There, BizWeb, Central Source Yellow Pages,
Enterpreneurs on the Web, Excite, Four11, Galaxy, I-Network I-Systems
Spiral Business Directory, I-World Web Pointer, Infoseek, Inktomi,
Innovator's Network Yellow Pages, Internet Mall, Jayde Online Directory,
Jumpcity, Jumper Hot Links, Linkmaster, Lycos, Magellan, Mega Mall,
Net-Happenings, Net Navigator, Net Mall, NTG's List, NYNEX Big Yellow,
One World Plaza, OnLine's WWWeb Index, Rex, Starting Point, Truenorth,
URL Tree, Virtual Lynx, Web Point, WebCentral, Web Venture Hotlist,
Webcrawler, Websurf, Win Mag/NetGuide Hotspots, WhatUSeek, Worldwide
Announce Archive, WWW Business Yellow Pages, World Wide Yellow Pages,
WWW Worm, YelloWWWeb.


HOW WILL I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE PROMOTED MY SITE?

When we have completed the promotion, we will send you an HTML
file as an attachment to your E-mail bill.  Save this file to your
disk, and view it through your Web browser.  It provides links to the
search engine we submitted your site to, plus any comments we received
from them when we did it.

ARE THERE ANY GUARANTEES?

We do not require prepayment.  Your satisfaction is guaranteed or
you don't pay the bill.

WHO IS OWL'S EYE PRODUCTIONS?

We are a web site promotion company located at:

   Owl's Eye Productions, Inc.
   260 E. Main Street
   Brewster, NY 10509
   Phone: (914) 278-4933
   Fax:     (914) 278-4507
   Email: owl@owlsnest.com


HOW DO I ORDER?

The easiest way to order is by e-mail.  Just hit the REPLY button on
your e-mail program and fill out the following information. (This
information will be posted to the search engines/indexes):

Your name: 
Company Name:
Address:
City:              State/Prov:     Zip/Postal Code: 
Telephone: 
Fax: 
Email address: 
URL:  http://
Site Title: 
Description (about 25 words): 
Key words (maximum of 25, in descending order of importance):

Proofs (Where shall we e-mail proofs): 

If  billing a different address, please complete the following:

Addressee: 
Company Name:
Address:
City:              State/Prov:     Zip/Postal Code: 
Telephone: 
Fax: 
Email address: 

We will bill via Email. (7224)

Terms:  By returning this document via Email, you agree as follows:
You have the authority to purchase this service on behalf of your
company.    Terms are net 15 days.  Accounts sent to collections will
be liable for collection costs.  You agree to protect and indemnify
Owl's Eye Productions, Inc. in any claim for libel, copyright
violations, plagiarism, or privacy and other suits or claims based on
the content or subject matter of  your site.

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

When we receive your order, we will input the information into
our system, and send you a proof.

After we process any corrections, we will run your promotion, capturing
any comments from search engines as we go.  We will incorporate these
into an HTML-formatted report to you, which we will attach to
your bill.
===Web Promotions=====Press Releases=====Link Exchanges=========
                 Owl's Eye Productions, Inc.
                   260 E. Main Street
                   Brewster, NY 10509
Ph: 914-278-4933  Fx: 914-278-4507  E-mail: owlseye@owlsnest.com
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 18:49:23 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vzCve-0000qsa; Mon, 24 Feb 97 18:47 PST
X-Path: usaor.net!madglass
From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Votes
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:45:47 -0500
Message-ID: <199702250259.VAA05949@gate.usaor.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bonnie
my vote is electronic and paper.

Thanks
mad
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 19:46:58 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vzDqU-0001N1a; Mon, 24 Feb 97 19:46 PST
X-Path: telusplanet.net!lanas
From: telusplanet.net!lanas
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:Glass atlas vote
Date: Mon Feb 24 19:46:22 1997
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.172122.0>
References: <<1997Feb22.153714.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> 
> David Cansler wrote:
> 
> > Hi everyone I'm new to this list and I'm wondering what the "Glass Atls
> > Vote" is about? I really like to vote.<G> Thanks.
> 
> Hello, David.
> 
> You couldn't have joined at a more opportune moment. We are in the
> process of all contributing **original** patterns to the "Bunginnian
> Glass Atlas of Patterns." However, at present, we are voting on whether
> to have the patterns in cyberspace, on paper, or both.
> 
> To play with us, you need to vote on the above question by sending a
> message to the board with the subject of Glass Atlas Vote. And you can
> send your patterns to:
> 
> Joyce Moran
> Garden of Glass
> 501 N. Madriver St.
> Bellefontaine, OH  43311
> 
> Or, if you already have them in your computer in jpeg or gif format,
> email them to:
> 
> joyce@bright.net
> 
> There is also a distinct possibility that volunteers will be needed for
> some thing or another in the future. Consider that fair warning.
> 
> Welcome.
> Hilary
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassGreetings everyone. I too am new both to cyberspace and to this 
"hotline" of information. I could offer up a vote of yes to both if it 
is a feasable thing to do. Otherwise, we are already connected by the 
"line" so why not keep it simple and leave things in the "virtual" 
mode.Lana.
----
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 20:31:54 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vzEYB-0001Rpa; Mon, 24 Feb 97 20:31 PST
X-Path: aol.com!Classydad
From: Classydad@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Vote Update
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:31:29 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.183129.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I vote for patterns on line.
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 20:38:08 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vzEe1-0000s3a; Mon, 24 Feb 97 20:37 PST
X-Path: pipeline.com!erainbow2
From: Mark Wallace <erainbow2@pipeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scoreboard
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:37:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970224063730.3fbf1acc@pop.pipeline.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 Mike:

Thanks for the kind words about the Scoreboard.  However, you noted that:
 
   "the only thing i don't like about it is, that it only angles out
>in one direction, so you have to flip the glass over to do an oposite
>angle."  
 
You'll be glad to know that the cutter guide bar will pivot on both sides of
the fixed stop.  Here's what to do.  Loosen the clamp screw so you can
rotate the bar.  Pick the bar up slightly so it clears the fixed stop at
ninety degrees and rotate the bar to the left.  The stabilizer bar will then
pull out of the swivel.  Rotate the stabilizer bar down to the front of the
board pull it out of its pivot hole.  Now replace the stabilizer bar in the
pivot hole located at the lower left corner of the board.  Swing the cutter
guide bar back to the right of the fixed stop and re-insert the stabilizer
bar into the swivel.  From this position, the cutter guide bar will rotate
to any angle to the left of the fixed stop and down to about 57 degrees on
the right side.  It makes it real easy to cut lamp panels when you can only
score the glass on one side.

I know this procedure sounds complicated but saying it is much harder than
doing it.  Doing it only takes about 10 or 15 seconds.  Incidentally,
there's a procedure outlined in the productivity guide showing you how to
cut lampshade panels from glass that can only be scored on one side without
pivoting the bar to the left of the fixed stop.  You might want to take a
look at that one.  It's actually easier than flipping the bar from side to
side.  Let me know how you make out.

By the way.  You'll love the Wedgies.  They let you support your 3-D
projects at just the right angle for soldering.  The best part is they are
heat resistant (you can dribble liquid solder on them and it will run off)
and flux resistant.  They really do work.

----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 21:52:06 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vzFnP-0001Tda; Mon, 24 Feb 97 21:51 PST
X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: National Glass Expo in Las Vegas
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:51:15 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.195115.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I've attended the Vegas show and will again this year.  The classes are
great.  I hate Vegas and so wish they would move it.  I didn't think the
banquet was anything great - but then I'm also not fond of the food in Vegas.
 
The brochure is quite extensive so it would be helpful to know what you want
to know.  If you need to know what classes are still open, I'd get on the
phone with LVM - they are very helpful (although I suspect busy this close to
event).  They can sign you up over the phone.  I
If you need to know dates - classes run from Thursday morning March 13
through 5pm Sunday March 16th.  Whether you need to be there the whole time
depends upon your schedule.The reception and dinner is Saturday night at The
Golden Nugget.  
The three hotels are Showboat Hotel $59(I stayed there last year) 1800
826-2800
Four Queens Hotel  $60 1800 634-6045
Golden Nugget $ 89/$149 1800-634-3454
You don't need to stay at any of them though since the classes are at Cashman
Convention Center unless you need the shuttle service.  Showboat only has a
shuttle from the airport. 
Write again if there is something specific you want to know.  Barbara
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 21:55:09 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vzFqd-00019Pa; Mon, 24 Feb 97 21:54 PST
X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scoreboard
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:54:39 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.195439.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

<< rubber blocks

I love all the stuff from Emerald Rainbow.  The rubber blocks - wedgies - are
truly wonderful.  I couldn't work 3D things without them.  They are generally
at all the trade shows and very helpful.  Barbara
----
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From owner-glass Mon Feb 24 23:42:32 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vzHWa-0001N8a; Mon, 24 Feb 97 23:42 PST
X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz
From: llutz <llutz@tpgi.com.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Is Your Web Site A Secret?
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:45:37 +1100
Message-ID: <1997Feb26.54537.0>
References: <<1997Feb24.122349.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> owl@owlsnest.com wrote:
> >
> >      Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet?

> Why is this being spammed on this group?
> 
> ---Mike Savad
I agree Mike- there is a URL called submit.it.com or something similar
that gets your site to the major search engines. I did mine a week or
two ago. It's free and if anyone wants to find it - email me and I will
look it up. There is a similar site in the UK.> 

-- 
Althea & Larry in Oz
mailto:llutz@tpgi.com.au
http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/llutz/
(Note: www1=wwwone, not wwwel)

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 02:00:16 1997
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From: Medic <drink@softcom.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: S.F. Glass Show
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 02:01:27 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.18127.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

Would someone, please send me some info. on the glass show that is going
to be held in or near San Francisco, CA in April (I think).  The info. 
I'm interested in is were, date of show, cost, etc.?

TIA

David


-- 
"May GOD stand between you and harm in
 all the empty places you must walk."
	Old Egyptian Prayer
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 07:08:47 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scoreboard
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:06:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.5617.0>
References: <<1.5.4.16.19970224063730.3fbf1acc@pop.pipeline.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mark Wallace wrote:
> 
>  Mike:
> 
> Thanks for the kind words about the Scoreboard.  However, you noted that:
> 
>    "the only thing i don't like about it is, that it only angles out
> >in one direction, so you have to flip the glass over to do an oposite
> >angle."
> 
> You'll be glad to know that the cutter guide bar will pivot on both sides of
> the fixed stop.  Here's what to do.  Loosen the clamp screw so you can
> rotate the bar.  Pick the bar up slightly so it clears the fixed stop at
> ninety degrees and rotate the bar to the left.  The stabilizer bar will then
> pull out of the swivel.  Rotate the stabilizer bar down to the front of the
> board pull it out of its pivot hole.  Now replace the stabilizer bar in the
> pivot hole located at the lower left corner of the board.  Swing the cutter
> guide bar back to the right of the fixed stop and re-insert the stabilizer
> bar into the swivel.  From this position, the cutter guide bar will rotate
> to any angle to the left of the fixed stop and down to about 57 degrees on
> the right side.  It makes it real easy to cut lamp panels when you can only
> score the glass on one side.
> 
> I know this procedure sounds complicated but saying it is much harder than
> doing it.  Doing it only takes about 10 or 15 seconds.  Incidentally,
> there's a procedure outlined in the productivity guide showing you how to
> cut lampshade panels from glass that can only be scored on one side without
> pivoting the bar to the left of the fixed stop.  You might want to take a
> look at that one.  It's actually easier than flipping the bar from side to
> side.  Let me know how you make out.
> 
> By the way.  You'll love the Wedgies.  They let you support your 3-D
> projects at just the right angle for soldering.  The best part is they are
> heat resistant (you can dribble liquid solder on them and it will run off)
> and flux resistant.  They really do work.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the main problem i have is that, when i bought it, it was'nt called
anything. i got it (i think) before the company was formed. the store i
bought it from said that a friend of his built it, and so i bought it. i
was thinking of modifying it. when i got it though it came with no
instructions, he just showed me how to use it.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 07:12:24 1997
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From: "Ken Lerner" <lernerk@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Vote Update
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 08:42:19 CST
Message-ID: <9701258568.AA856890672@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


          Can I vote again?  (I'm from Chicago)

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 07:46:49 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Vote Update
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:42:46 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb24.234246.0>
References: <<9701258568.AA856890672@smtplink.dis.anl.gov>>
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Precedence: bulk

Ken Lerner wrote:
> 
>           Can I vote again?  (I'm from Chicago)
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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Ken, if you want to change your vote, I will be happy to change it to
something else.  I do show however that you have voted and voting once
is all that I desire.  No need making my job any harder.  If you want to
change it, just let me know that is what you are doing or it will remain
the same as you originally submitted it.
                   Bonnie Clark
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 07:47:24 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Vote Update
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:44:55 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702251544.JAA14653@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 08:42 AM 2/25/97 CST, Ken Lerner wrote:
>
>          Can I vote again?  (I'm from Chicago)


Sure can...just find an obit page from 1925 and point to a name... add it to
your FROM line and resubmit

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 08:45:03 1997
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From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Quote
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:48:42 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.04842.0>
References: <<33131723.3B57@americanbevel.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Dear Robert Crane,
 
Re: Your beveling quote,

Cost at $.55 an inch is $15.00 ea. Total is $30.00 plus handling and
shipping.

B. Rgds,
 
American Bevel, Inc.
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 09:10:46 1997
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From: "Robin Ballard" <rballard@icsp.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Vote Update
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:06:46 -0600
Message-ID: <17062668700084@chicom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Bonnie:

It was a joke.  Those of us from Chicago have the age-old motto:

Vote early and often.  Unfortunately, around here it happens all the time.

Robin B.

----------
> From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Vote Update
> Date: Tuesday, February 25, 1997 9:42 AM
> 
> Ken Lerner wrote:
> > 
> >           Can I vote again?  (I'm from Chicago)
> > 
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> Ken, if you want to change your vote, I will be happy to change it to
> something else.  I do show however that you have voted and voting once
> is all that I desire.  No need making my job any harder.  If you want to
> change it, just let me know that is what you are doing or it will remain
> the same as you originally submitted it.
>                    Bonnie Clark
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 09:16:51 1997
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From: "Abbe,Steve" <abbes@VKM.COM>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Vote Update
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:14:04 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.5144.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

one vote for patterns online
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 10:41:24 1997
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From: "Maria" <rickym@somtel.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Glass Atlas
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 13:43:44 -0500
Message-ID: <199702251847.NAA22308@quint.somtel.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi, 
	I vote for the online version... ;-)             
                     
                                                 Maria
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 11:55:18 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Vote Update
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:51:20 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.35120.0>
References: <<199702251544.JAA14653@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

len alcamo wrote:
> 
> At 08:42 AM 2/25/97 CST, Ken Lerner wrote:
> >
> >          Can I vote again?  (I'm from Chicago)
> 
> Sure can...just find an obit page from 1925 and point to a name... add it to
> your FROM line and resubmit
> 
Oh, I see, Chicago people are so eager they want to vote more than once.
How about putting some of that energy into working on the Glass Atlas in
whatever form it may end up being ----B. Clark
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 12:32:03 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs
From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Vote Update
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:31:34 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.103134.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Bonnie, 

I don't know for sure, but I'm from Chicago too and perhaps Ken is just
living up to Chicago's great political history  -  Vote Early.  Vote often!
  <G>

In a message dated 97-02-25 10:51:13 EST, you write:

<< Ken Lerner wrote:
 > 
 >           Can I vote again?  (I'm from Chicago)
 > 
 > ----
 > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
 > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
 > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
 
 Ken, if you want to change your vote, I will be happy to change it to
 something else.  I do show however that you have voted and voting once
 is all that I desire.  No need making my job any harder.  If you want to
 change it, just let me know that is what you are doing or it will remain
 the same as you originally submitted it.
                    Bonnie Clark
  >>

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 12:34:54 1997
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From: SusieHUs@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Voting
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:34:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.103412.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Sorry, I sent the reply before I finished reading the rest of my mail.
 Didn't mean to be redundant!

Susie
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 13:53:00 1997
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From: Larry Earnheart <larrye@cei.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:59:37 -0600
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970225215937.0067ab0c@mail.cei.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

As a "lurking hobbyist".....and having noted questionable votes from
Chicago...I must
respond.  (I guess I don't even have a vote?)

HOWEVER...

As a citizen of "Arkansas"... I take the traditional "arkie" political
stance....

I stand firmly in the middle...and wish to offend no-one.  I MUST ABSTAIN!

(however...there are conditions under which my vote can be swayed...and keep
me informed
as to how those "polls" are go'n)


(for you sensitive folks...sorry)

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 14:11:15 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Quote
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:10:01 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199702252210.QAA00008@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 08:48 AM 2/25/97 -0800, Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
>Dear Robert Crane,
> 
>Re: Your beveling quote,
>
>Cost at $.55 an inch is $15.00 ea. Total is $30.00 plus handling and
>shipping.
>
>B. Rgds,
> 
>American Bevel, Inc.


Am I missing something here? I didn't see a request for a beveling qoute
posted to glass@bungi. Could this be Am Bev weaseling in a little bit of
spam? Probably not, just an honest mistake, right?

Len 

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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 14:38:07 1997
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From: jandj <jandj@tvutel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scoreboard
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:29:44 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.102944.0>
References: <<1997Feb25.5617.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Mark Wallace wrote:
> >
> >  Mike:
> >
> > Thanks for the kind words about the Scoreboard.  However, you noted that:
> >
> >    "the only thing i don't like about it is, that it only angles out
> > >in one direction, so you have to flip the glass over to do an oposite
> > >angle."
> >
> > You'll be glad to know that the cutter guide bar will pivot on both sides of
> > the fixed stop.  Here's what to do.  Loosen the clamp screw so you can
> > rotate the bar.  Pick the bar up slightly so it clears the fixed stop at
> > ninety degrees and rotate the bar to the left.  The stabilizer bar will then
> > pull out of the swivel.  Rotate the stabilizer bar down to the front of the
> > board pull it out of its pivot hole.  Now replace the stabilizer bar in the
> > pivot hole located at the lower left corner of the board.  Swing the cutter
> > guide bar back to the right of the fixed stop and re-insert the stabilizer
> > bar into the swivel.  From this position, the cutter guide bar will rotate
> > to any angle to the left of the fixed stop and down to about 57 degrees on
> > the right side.  It makes it real easy to cut lamp panels when you can only
> > score the glass on one side.
> >
> > I know this procedure sounds complicated but saying it is much harder than
> > doing it.  Doing it only takes about 10 or 15 seconds.  Incidentally,
> > there's a procedure outlined in the productivity guide showing you how to
> > cut lampshade panels from glass that can only be scored on one side without
> > pivoting the bar to the left of the fixed stop.  You might want to take a
> > look at that one.  It's actually easier than flipping the bar from side to
> > side.  Let me know how you make out.
> >
> > By the way.  You'll love the Wedgies.  They let you support your 3-D
> > projects at just the right angle for soldering.  The best part is they are
> > heat resistant (you can dribble liquid solder on them and it will run off)
> > and flux resistant.  They really do work.
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> the main problem i have is that, when i bought it, it was'nt called
> anything. i got it (i think) before the company was formed. the store i
> bought it from said that a friend of his built it, and so i bought it. i
> was thinking of modifying it. when i got it though it came with no
> instructions, he just showed me how to use it.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


I want to see this scoreboard or at least see a picture of it where can
I see or get one?  Are they costly?

Jackie
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 15:47:16 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Scoreboard
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:43:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.13437.0>
References: <<1997Feb25.102944.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jackie,

Both Glass Crafters in Sarasota, Fl and Delphi both have this in their
catalogs:  See Art Glass World for on line catalogs by both companys,
and you can order their catalogs on line too.  Product runs about $50
retail, if I remember right. I am thinking of getting it, after all the
great recomendations, even though I have and use the Morton cutting
system.  It looks like the 'Scoreboard' may be a little eaiser on
straight repeditive cuts, diamond and triangles.  (I still wish netscape
mail had a spell checker.)

http://www.artglassworld.com/Welcome.html

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
> 
> I want to see this scoreboard or at least see a picture of it where can
> I see or get one?  Are they costly?
> 
> Jackie
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 17:18:29 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Psst! Did anyone hear??
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:34:03 +0000
Message-ID: <199702260117.BAA14289@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,
My message must have got drowned somewhere, but I did offer this old 
body to do anything you felt I could do (other than being Editor)....
I did also offer to kick-off  by sifting through all volunteers and 
list them all in "one swoop".  That was about a week ago now..
Nobody heard me, nobody responded, nobody loves me no more....    :-(
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Bonnie wrote:
Oh, I see, Chicago people are so eager they want to vote more than once.
How about putting some of that energy into working on the Glass Atlas in
whatever form it may end up being ----
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 17:32:08 1997
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Psst! Did anyone hear??
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:28:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.15283.0>
References: <<199702260117.BAA14289@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Elisabeth,

Yes, we all still love you, but know you are super busy with the trip
coming up around the corner-maybe thats why.  I can volunteer to do
something or other, not sure what.  Anyway-love, hugs, and pats to Toby.
Lee Boe
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 19:51:18 1997
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X-Path: intrastar.net!ssuter
From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:51:51 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.155151.0>
References: <<1.5.4.32.19970225215937.0067ab0c@mail.cei.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Larry Earnheart wrote:
> 
> As a citizen of "Arkansas"...
> ...there are conditions under which my vote can be swayed...

Honey,

I thought I told you this morning over breakfast how to vote. 

Your wife and First Lady,
Hillary C.


>(for you sensitive folks...sorry)
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From owner-glass Tue Feb 25 22:10:55 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Vote Update
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:27:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.152728.0>
References: <<1997Feb24.234246.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hi Ken,
	Obviously your "Chicago" humor missed the mark.  Being formerly 
from the Land of Lincoln, I think you ought to go to the graveyards, 
pick a few names, and vote all you want to.  Mayor Daley and the 
machine would be proud of you!   T. in Montana

Bonnie Clark wrote:
> 
> Ken Lerner wrote:
> >
> >           Can I vote again?  (I'm from Chicago)
> 
> Ken, if you want to change your vote, I will be happy to change it to
> something else.  I do show however that you have voted and voting once
> is all that I desire.  No need making my job any harder.  If you want to
> change it, just let me know that is what you are doing or it will remain
> the same as you originally submitted it.
>                    Bonnie Clark
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 01:04:20 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: S.F. Glass Show
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 04:00:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.23012.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


<< info. on the glass show that is going  to be held in or near San
Francisco, CA in April  >>

There is a Glass Craft in SF planned (don't know dates).  It's also being
done by Las Vegas Management.  You can call them at 1800-217-4527 or 702
734-0070
fax is 702 734-0636; email is lvmglass@worldnet.att.net

Sorry I don't have any details.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 02:34:42 1997
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From: Medic <drink@softcom.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: S.F. Glass Show
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:36:02 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb25.18362.0>
References: <<1997Feb25.23012.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> << info. on the glass show that is going  to be held in or near San
> Francisco, CA in April  >>
> 
> There is a Glass Craft in SF planned (don't know dates).  It's also being
> done by Las Vegas Management.  You can call them at 1800-217-4527 or 702
> 734-0070
> fax is 702 734-0636; email is lvmglass@worldnet.att.net
> 
> Sorry I don't have any details.  Barbara
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


Barbra,

Thank you for the information on the S.F. Glass Expo.  The information
is for a friend that does not have a computer (yes, there are still some
people that don't have them, even in California)  :-)  Again thanks it's
a big help.

David
-- 
"May GOD stand between you and harm in
 all the empty places you must walk."
	Old Egyptian Prayer
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 03:28:05 1997
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Psst! Did anyone hear??
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:26:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb26.1261.0>
References: <<199702260117.BAA14289@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> My message must have got drowned somewhere, but I did offer this old
> body to do anything you felt I could do (other than being Editor)....
> I did also offer to kick-off  by sifting through all volunteers and
> list them all in "one swoop".  That was about a week ago now..
> Nobody heard me, nobody responded, nobody loves me no more....    :-(
> Elisabeth 'n Toby

I personally am still waiting for patterns to come in...no patterns no 
work to do...no volunteers to contact, etc, etc.  And also waiting for 
the results of the vote on March 1st to see exactly what work needs to 
be done.

Joyce
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 03:44:14 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!ElsieTurqman
From: Elsie Turqman <ElsieTurqman@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:41:55 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb26.114155.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Soft  Copy


   Please send your votes to me at
>fishbait@televar.com
>Bonnie Clark
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 04:19:39 1997
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	id m0vziKK-0001Sea; Wed, 26 Feb 97 04:19 PST
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Scoreboard
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:21:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb26.22135.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


I want to see this scoreboard or at least see a picture of it where can
I see or get one?  Are they costly?

Jackie

$53.00 at Delphi. There's a picture of it in their catalog.

Linda

begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
M>)\^(B0,`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0`
M`@````(``@`!!) &``@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/
M`0```#T`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC
M;VT`4TU44 !G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT`````'@`", $````%````4TU44 ``
M```>``,P`0```! ```!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT``P`5# $````#`/X/!@``
M`!X``3 !````$@```"=G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VTG`````@$+, $````5````
M4TU44#I'3$%34T!"54Y'22Y#3TT``````P``.0`````+`$ Z`0````(!]@\!
M````! ````````-\*P$(@ <`& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E
M`#$(`02 `0`/````4D4Z(%-C;W)E8F]A<F0`]00!!8 #``X```#-!P(`&@`'
M`!4`(P`#`#(!`2" `P`.````S0<"`!H`!P`4`#@``P!&`0$)@ $`(0```$4T
M.#=$-$$Y03@X1D0P,3%"0D4P,#!$1# Q,34Y-4,X`#@'`0.0!@#4`@``$@``
M``L`(P```````P`F```````+`"D```````,`-@``````0 `Y`&!MMYO?([P!
M'@!P``$````/````4D4Z(%-C;W)E8F]A<F0```(!<0`!````%@````&\(]^;
MKJG4A^6/J!'0N^ `W0$5E<@``!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% `````'@`?# $`
M```2````;&-B96QL0&UE;6%C:"YC;VT````#``80PH)PG ,`!Q"+````'@`(
M$ $```!E````25=!3E143U-%151(25-30T]214)/05)$3U)!5$Q%05-44T5%
M05!)0U154D5/1DE45TA%4D5#04Y)4T5%3U)'151/3D4_05)%5$A%64-/4U1,
M63]*04-+244D-3,P,$%41$5,4 `````"`0D0`0```&$!``!=`0``,@(``$Q:
M1G77>8QW_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0`O()`@!C: K <V5T,C<&``;#`H,R`\4"
M`'!R0G$1XG-T96T"@S,W`N0'$P*#- 1&$S,Q(/<(50>R`H!]"H (SPG9`H '
M"H$-L0M@;F<Q,#.#%% +`VQI,3@P`M'@:2TQ-#0-\ S0&R.Y"UDQ-@J@`V 3
MT&,%0/,*BQJ ,S8;QQ11"_(<QAA)('<`< 5 =&\@=1&P92 P: 0`(& %H64K
M!N +$2 %L6$%0&QEAF$3P"!C82!P:1T00PAP()!O9B!I!4!W]F@$D""08P!P
M"H4?T"!R#06Q9Q' (:!N93\@4Q2Q())E>20`;Q/ ;*QY/PJ%"H5*`-!K")#?
M"H\+D15A"_ 58&,-X!TV,"0U,RX:P"'21&5$;' @P"X@5"/")^\$("*^"X F
M$FD%P"00`9 I%Z!G+B;L3 N 9&$+*"47,0`P$ ````,`$! ``````P`1$ ``
M``! ``<P@'"2A-\CO % ``@P@'"2A-\CO $>`#T``0````4```!213H@````
#`%>U
`
end

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 05:27:20 1997
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	id m0vzjNZ-0001VEa; Wed, 26 Feb 97 05:26 PST
X-Path: thezone.net!aaa654
From: ROBERT CRANE <aaa654@thezone.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Quote
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:51:02 -0330
Message-ID: <1997Feb26.632.0>
References: <<199702252210.QAA00008@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

len alcamo wrote:
> 
> At 08:48 AM 2/25/97 -0800, Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> >Dear Robert Crane,
> >
> >Re: Your beveling quote,
> >
> >Cost at $.55 an inch is $15.00 ea. Total is $30.00 plus handling and
> >shipping.
> >
> >B. Rgds,
> >
> >American Bevel, Inc.
> 
> Am I missing something here? I didn't see a request for a beveling qoute
> posted to glass@bungi. Could this be Am Bev weaseling in a little bit of
> spam? Probably not, just an honest mistake, right?
> 
> Len
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassPlease forgive me, It is entirely my fault and not american bevel. I had a little 
problem with my server and left glass@bungi.com as my e-mail address with american 
bevel. To all this message went out to --I apologise.... Please do not blame american 
bevel

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 08:06:36 1997
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Larry Earnheart <larrye@cei.net>
Subject: Re: Glass Atlas Vote
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:01:03 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb26.013.0>
References: <<1.5.4.32.19970225215937.0067ab0c@mail.cei.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Larry:  Several of us are from Arkansas.  That position is not and I
repeat not the way it is done in most parts of Arkansas.  One MUST take a
position and speak up about it.  You have a vote so either use it or lose
it.  PJ

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 08:48:20 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com (Donald A DeVoto)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mosaics
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:41:07 EST
Message-ID: <1997Feb26.16417.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have an article from the St, Louis Post Dispatch 2/22/97 that i think
someone into glass mosaics would be interested in . I don't have the
ability to send it any  way except the U.S. Mail but i will send a copy
to anyone interested. The headline is  FINE ART OF PIECING GLASS IS ALIVE
AND WELL .. The article is about Don Fuller ,who they say tends the
International Masonry Institute's stock of Venetian mosaic glass,loves
his work--and his hobby. Don 
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 09:23:57 1997
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From: karenro <karenro@newpig3.newpig.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Mosaics
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:16:45 -0500
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=New_Pig_Corporat%l=NEWPIG9-970226171645Z-118634@newpig9.newpig.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Don,

I would be very interested in a copy of this article

Thanks
 
Karen Roberts
314 Logan Blvd
Altoona, PA 16602

>
>Subject: 	Mosaics
>
>I have an article from the St, Louis Post Dispatch 2/22/97 that i think
>someone into glass mosaics would be interested in . I don't have the
>ability to send it any  way except the U.S. Mail but i will send a copy
>to anyone interested. The headline is  FINE ART OF PIECING GLASS IS
>ALIVE
>AND WELL .. The article is about Don Fuller ,who they say tends the
>International Masonry Institute's stock of Venetian mosaic glass,loves
>his work--and his hobby. Don 
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 16:52:02 1997
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	id m0vzu4B-00019Pa; Wed, 26 Feb 97 16:51 PST
X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Psst! Did anyone hear??
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:49:47 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb26.194947.0>
References: <<1997Feb26.1261.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> I personally am still waiting for patterns to come in...no patterns no
> work to do...no volunteers to contact, etc, etc.  And also waiting for
> the results of the vote on March 1st to see exactly what work needs to
> be done.
> 
> Joyce
> ----

Hello, Joyce,

I have five patterns that I have finally been able to scale down to the
8.5 x 11 format. It will take me a couple of days to get them scanned
and sent.

Since this is taking me more than five minutes to accomplish, I would
assume that it is taking everyone more than five minutes, but do we
really have a deadline.

Besides, as promised one of my patterns is for the Kidney Panel and is
anyone holding their breath for that??!!:-)

Sooner or later,
Hilary
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 17:00:19 1997
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X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Psst! Did anyone hear??
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:58:28 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb26.195828.0>
References: <<199702260117.BAA14289@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> Hi everyone,
> My message must have got drowned somewhere, but I did offer this old
> body to do anything you felt I could do (other than being Editor)....
> I did also offer to kick-off  by sifting through all volunteers and
> list them all in "one swoop".  That was about a week ago now..
> Nobody heard me, nobody responded, nobody loves me no more....    :-(
> Elisabeth 'n Toby

oh, dear, how could you possibly think that we don't love you anymore?
And if not you, at least Toby??!!:-)

I haven't had much 'puter time and my server went on the fritz over the
weekend. Things are going to be a little busy for awhile...

This Saturday four of us are going on the "field trip" to Warner C. in
Allentown. The other three have never been there and I keep warning them
that they are in BIG trouble. The store is sooooooo nicely laid out and
the glass is sooooooo accessable, that it is virtually impossible to
walk out without spending a fortune. This will also be the first time
that I have been able to shop there without a husband waiting somewhere
with a book! There is supposed to be someone doing demonstrations on
Saturdays too. Can't wait to see what that is about. There is always
more to learn.

When are you coming over? I'll be happy to take you up there.

Scratch Toby good behind the ears. Spunkie and Charley send licks.

Take care,
Hilary
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 20:52:40 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vzxp9-0000c6a; Wed, 26 Feb 97 20:52 PST
X-Path: bridge.net!athena
From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Mosaics article on Don Fuller
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:57:19 +0000
Message-ID: <199702270451.XAA10275@brickell.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Don, 

I would be *very* grateful to have the article, thank you!

Please snail mail me at:

M.-J. Taylor
640 Elma Ave.
Big Pine Key, FL 33043

Thanks.

> >Subject: 	Mosaics
> >
> >I have an article from the St, Louis Post Dispatch 2/22/97 that i
> >think someone into glass mosaics would be interested in . I don't
> >have the ability to send it any  way except the U.S. Mail but i
> >will send a copy to anyone interested. The headline is  FINE ART OF
> >PIECING GLASS IS ALIVE AND WELL .. The article is about Don Fuller
> >,who they say tends the International Masonry Institute's stock of
> >Venetian mosaic glass,loves his work--and his hobby. Don -
M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails.

 
                                              |\                ( )
 _____________________________________________|_\_____________________
                                              -----             -_-_
                                                               -- - -
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 22:27:21 1997
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X-Path: aloha.net!haisley
From: Phil Haisley <haisley@aloha.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Our busted lamp
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:26:39 -1000
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970227062639.00666ae8@aloha.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Found you on the internet.

My folks found a neat stained glass lamp in the basement of my grandmother's
house, and gave it to my wife and I.  It has 8 curved panels, 2 of which are
missing.  We want to fix it up to hang over our kitchen table.  We found
someone to make a mould and put it back together, but we need a source for
matching the glass.  Its a dark green and brown mottled looking glass, with
copper colored metallic looking flashes.  Its smooth on the outside, but
very rough and "pebbley" on the inside.

Can you tell us how to go about finding some glass to fit the bill?

Aloha from Hawaii,
Phil Haisley
haisley@aloha.net

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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 23:15:22 1997
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Psst! Did anyone hear??
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 02:13:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb26.211324.0>
References: <<1997Feb26.194947.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> 
> > I personally am still waiting for patterns to come in...no patterns no
> > work to do...no volunteers to contact, etc, etc.  And also waiting for
> > the results of the vote on March 1st to see exactly what work needs to
> > be done.
> >
> > Joyce
> > ----
> 
> Hello, Joyce,
> 
> I have five patterns that I have finally been able to scale down to the
> 8.5 x 11 format. It will take me a couple of days to get them scanned
> and sent.
> 
> Since this is taking me more than five minutes to accomplish, I would
> assume that it is taking everyone more than five minutes, but do we
> really have a deadline.


No deadline at all.  And please take your time.  I just am having a hard 
time believing that not even one person has gotten any patterns to me 
yet.  Maybe I was just too excited about the project and everyone else 
is more ho hum...I did spend this time getting some of my own patterns 
ready for the atlas, so maybe one person actually has submitted 
patterns.

Joyce
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From owner-glass Wed Feb 26 23:49:44 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Our busted lamp
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 02:48:25 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb26.214825.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-02-27 01:41:46 EST, you write:

<< Can you tell us how to go about finding some glass to fit the bill? >>

That's kind of a tall order with just a description.  Colors and such are so
subjective.  If you have a local stained glass store, that would be your best
bed.  If not, look under Glass, Stained and Leaded in the yellow pages.  If
you really have none near by, several companies offer glass matching
services. Write back and we can help you further.  Good luck!  Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 04:00:19 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Our busted lamp
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:05:27 +0000
Message-ID: <199702271159.GAA07739@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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> My folks found a neat stained glass lamp in the basement of my grandmother's
> house, and gave it to my wife and I.  It has 8 curved panels, 2 of which are
> missing.  We want to fix it up to hang over our kitchen table.  

Phil,

We run a Referral Service for glass studios and artists. If you'll 
give us your zip code, we can point you to local studios that might 
be able to help you.  (If you'd prefer a printed copy of that list, 
send your street mailing address privately by email and we'll be glad 
to do that.)

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 04:37:18 1997
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From: David Cansler <dcans@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Psst! Did anyone hear??
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:31:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb27.23128.0>
References: <<1997Feb26.211324.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> No deadline at all.  And please take your time.  I just am having a hard
> time believing that not even one person has gotten any patterns to me
> yet.  Maybe I was just too excited about the project and everyone else
> is more ho hum...I did spend this time getting some of my own patterns
> ready for the atlas, so maybe one person actually has submitted
> patterns.
> 
> Joyce

What format do you want these patterns in?
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 06:01:29 1997
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From: mcFrenzy <pristine@gr.cns.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Our busted lamp
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:52:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb27.35239.0>
References: <<199702271159.GAA07739@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> My folks found a neat stained glass lamp in the basement of my grandmother's
> house, and gave it to my wife and I.  It has 8 curved panels, 2 of which are
> missing.  We want to fix it up to hang over our kitchen table.

My first guess is that it may be Kokomo Glass Co.'s Glass. They began in
1888 and their glass 
accounts for a large percentage of the material used when your shade was
made.
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 07:32:09 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Our busted lamp
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:30:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb27.53017.0>
References: <<1.5.4.32.19970227062639.00666ae8@aloha.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Phil Haisley wrote:
> 
> Found you on the internet.
> 
> My folks found a neat stained glass lamp in the basement of my grandmother's
> house, and gave it to my wife and I.  It has 8 curved panels, 2 of which are
> missing.  We want to fix it up to hang over our kitchen table.  We found
> someone to make a mould and put it back together, but we need a source for
> matching the glass.  Its a dark green and brown mottled looking glass, with
> copper colored metallic looking flashes.  Its smooth on the outside, but
> very rough and "pebbley" on the inside.
> 
> Can you tell us how to go about finding some glass to fit the bill?
> 
> Aloha from Hawaii,
> Phil Haisley
> haisley@aloha.net
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it sounds like Uroboros the coppery flashes sounds like irridesent,
though that's usally a rainbow tone. Bullseye glass can have a gold tone
to it. i would bring the lamp to a stained glass store, and see what
there is to match it. 

here are the scenarios (sp?) i see: 

a. you find the exact right glass and you live happily ever after. but
that may not be likley givin the color and texture information.

b. you find a color that's simaler, it might not be the right shade,
tone of iridesence, texture on the back. it may be repaired, but
everyone will know.

c. you'll never find the glass, because it's either not made anymore,
the company does'nt even exist anymore, or someone made the glass (or
the tone), themselves.

d. you give up looking for the glass, and check into a antique shop. see
if it's worth anything, or if they happen to have the missing pieces
from another lamp.

e. have the lamp taken apart and rebuilt with the pieces you have...but
who knows you might have some sort of tiffany.


i was also thinking it might be a simpaler glass like spectrum, but that
glass does'nt take extreme heat well, colorwise.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 11:26:22 1997
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X-Path: televar.com!fishbait
From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Yesterday
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:21:39 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb27.32139.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

If anyone other than Elsie Turqman sent in a vote yesterday, please
send it again.  The server cut me off by mistake yesterday when our
local connections site didn't make thir payments to them.  Anyway it was
a mess and I don't know if I missed any votes or not.  My computer was
messed up for a while and after they spent forty-five minutes talking me
through reprograming everything, I believe everything is working now. 
However I haven't received any bungi messages today so if I got unhooked 
for returned messages please get me going again so I can collect those
votes.  
Thanks
Bonnie Clark
fishbait@televar.com
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 13:03:39 1997
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From: Doug Scale <proffire@ebtech.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Las Vegas Glass Expo
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:01:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb27.11134.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Have seen a couple of requests for info about this show but haven't
heard if anyone is actually going  (besides me).  If some are maybe we
should have a Bunginian meeting over a cold soda pop or facsimile.

Regeards.

Doug Scale
Fire Creations in Glass
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 16:04:31 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Las Vegas Glass Expo
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:55:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb27.135539.0>
References: <<1997Feb27.11134.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

hi Doug,

Dont know if this was a request for info on show, but I just got today
an 'Eastman' Newsletter, that lists show infor.  Glass Craft
Conference-Spring '97 San Francisco Airport CA (800) 217-4527 for reg.
and info.  Dates listed are May 2,3,4 , Kay Bain Weiner is running a
glass enameling and decorative soldering class at the Conference is
listed too. 

Same # for the Las Vegas Show dates listed March 13,14.
 
I am not planing on going, but for those bungians that will, a
get-together would be fun I'm sure.  There also should be info on the
IGGA page .  
Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Doug Scale wrote:
> 
> Have seen a couple of requests for info about this show but haven't
> heard if anyone is actually going  (besides me).  If some are maybe we
> should have a Bunginian meeting over a cold soda pop or facsimile.
>
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 16:29:09 1997
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Doug Scale <proffire@ebtech.net>
Subject: Re: Las Vegas Glass Expo
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:24:51 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb27.82451.0>
References: <<1997Feb27.11134.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Doug:  I plan to be there.  Would love to go to a Bunginian meeting
during the expo.  You say where and I'll be there.  PJ from CA.

On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Doug Scale wrote:

> Have seen a couple of requests for info about this show but haven't
> heard if anyone is actually going  (besides me).  If some are maybe we
> should have a Bunginian meeting over a cold soda pop or facsimile.
> 
> Regeards.
> 
> Doug Scale
> Fire Creations in Glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 20:30:41 1997
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: pattern format
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 21:24:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb27.162445.0>
References: <<1997Feb27.23128.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> What format do you want these patterns in?


First choice is .pdf, but I know only a few people have access to 
software that will provide that option, so .jpg, .pcx, .bmp, .gif, any 
of the common extensions are fine.  Eventually we will have to decide 
exactly which format will be downloaded from the website and convert 
those patterns to that format.  In the meantime, I'm not picky.

Joyce

Keep those patterns coming....joyce@bright.net or joyce@mail.bright.net 
or 	Garden of Glass
	501 N. Madriver St.
	Bellefontaine, OH  43311
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 20:31:55 1997
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From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Help!
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:31:49 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb27.93149.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Help!  Is anyone writing any messages at all through Bungi.  I have not
received anything all day.  I sent the following message six hours ago
and it still has not come back to me either.  If you sent in a vote
anytime past 11:00 p.m. on the 25th please send it again and if you have
disconnected me for some reason please hook me back up.  Joyce is trying
to keep tabs on them while this problem exists so please solve it so it
doesn't put extra work on her as she will have enough to do once you all
start sending her patterns.  
Thanks
Bonnie Clark
P.S.  If you can't get your vote to me through Bungi send it to me
direct at fishbait@televar.com until the problem is solved.

Bonnie Clark wrote:
 
 If anyone other than Elsie Turqman sent in a vote yesterday, please
 send it again.  The server cut me off by mistake yesterday when our
 local connections site didn't make thir payments to them.  Anyway it  
was a mess and I don't know if I missed any votes or not.  My computer 
was messed up for a while and after they spent forty-five minutes  
talking me through reprograming everything, I believe everything is  
working now. However I haven't received any bungi messages today so if 
I got unhooked
 for returned messages please get me going again so I can collect those
 votes.
 Thanks
 Bonnie Clark
 fishbait@televar.com
----
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 20:54:38 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Las Vegas Glass Expo
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 23:53:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb27.185348.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'll be at the Vegas Expo.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Feb 27 21:57:01 1997
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From: gary@softcell.net
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Your site
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 01:01:56 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.9156.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

From: SoftCell Marketing Inc.
Attn.: To whom it may concern

Hi,

I was at you web site today and thought you may be interested in building 
your we site traffic. I am not developing any kind of e mail list or e-zine 
magazine. If you are the wrong person to speak to about this matter, I
would appreciate if you could point me in the right direction. Thanks.

My firm, SoftCell Marketing specializes in aggressive traffic building 
programs that can have an impact on the amount of hits your site gets 
and the amount of  leads you can generate.

We offer……

Search Drive Engines - possible top 10 listing _ ALL 517

Submission of your site to the top Search Drive Engines are one of the 
most important  areas to consider on the net because your placement 
directly affects your exposure. The closer to the top, the more clicks or 
hits or click-throughs you will be able to attract.

 News Groups Postings - super exposure_40 Separate Postings 

News Groups are a form of electronic bulletin board where people
communicate with others sharing similar interests. At this time there 
are over 30,000 News Groups, each specializing in different topics.
Discreet postings on appropriate News Groups can reach your target
market instantly. 

Targeted  Bulk E Mailing - not spam!

Targeted Bulk e mailing are by far the most effective and fastest to 
build web site traffic. With our substantial list of e mail addresses we 
can guarantee you substantial web site traffic. We mail to relevant 
e-mail address that have interest in your products or services.

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We have over 22,000 e mail addresses of e-zine and Internet magazines
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If you are interested in hearing more about our service,  or want to
download a FREE demo of E-Mail Works v3.1 please visit our site
 located at http://www.softcell.net

To that end, I appreciate your time in reading this letter and await your 
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Account Manager
SoftCell Marketing Inc. - 250 East 39th Street
New York, NY 10011 - 212-953-5234

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 05:51:42 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 08:30:26 PST
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.163026.0>
References: <<1997Feb26.16417.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd like to have a copy please. Mary Austin
801 Merry Lane  Greenwood, IN 46142
Thanks for you time and effort.


On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:41:07 EST eldondo1@juno.com (Donald A DeVoto)
writes:
>I have an article from the St, Louis Post Dispatch 2/22/97 that i 
>think
>someone into glass mosaics would be interested in . I don't have the
>ability to send it any  way except the U.S. Mail but i will send a 
>copy
>to anyone interested. The headline is  FINE ART OF PIECING GLASS IS 
>ALIVE
>AND WELL .. The article is about Don Fuller ,who they say tends the
>International Masonry Institute's stock of Venetian mosaic glass,loves
>his work--and his hobby. Don 
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 07:42:36 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Your site
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 10:40:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.54010.0>
References: <<1997Feb28.9156.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

gary@softcell.net wrote:
> =

> From: SoftCell Marketing Inc.
> Attn.: To whom it may concern
> =

> Hi,
> =

> I was at you web site today and thought you may be interested in buildi=
ng
> your we site traffic. I am not developing any kind of e mail list or e-=
zine
> magazine. If you are the wrong person to speak to about this matter, I
> would appreciate if you could point me in the right direction. Thanks.
> =

> My firm, SoftCell Marketing specializes in aggressive traffic building
> programs that can have an impact on the amount of hits your site gets
> and the amount of  leads you can generate.
> =

> We offer=85=85
> =

> Search Drive Engines - possible top 10 listing _ ALL 517
> =

> Submission of your site to the top Search Drive Engines are one of the
> most important  areas to consider on the net because your placement
> directly affects your exposure. The closer to the top, the more clicks =
or
> hits or click-throughs you will be able to attract.
> =

>  News Groups Postings - super exposure_40 Separate Postings
> =

> News Groups are a form of electronic bulletin board where people
> communicate with others sharing similar interests. At this time there
> are over 30,000 News Groups, each specializing in different topics.
> Discreet postings on appropriate News Groups can reach your target
> market instantly.
> =

> Targeted  Bulk E Mailing - not spam!
> =

> Targeted Bulk e mailing are by far the most effective and fastest to
> build web site traffic. With our substantial list of e mail addresses w=
e
> can guarantee you substantial web site traffic. We mail to relevant
> e-mail address that have interest in your products or services.
> =

> Public Relations - See us in=85 Business Week - Entrepreneur Magazine
> Boadwatch
> =

> We have over 22,000 e mail addresses of e-zine and Internet magazines
> that may consider an editorial about your product or service.
> =

> If you are interested in hearing more about our service,  or want to
> download a FREE demo of E-Mail Works v3.1 please visit our site
>  located at http://www.softcell.net
> =

> To that end, I appreciate your time in reading this letter and await yo=
ur
> reply.
> =

> Gary Cooper
> Account Manager
> SoftCell Marketing Inc. - 250 East 39th Street
> New York, NY 10011 - 212-953-5234
> =

> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


boy this spam-boy does'nt even know he's on a listserv...

---Mike Savad

-- =

Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 09:44:04 1997
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	id m0w0WLC-0001Gna; Fri, 28 Feb 97 09:43 PST
X-Path: televar.com!fishbait
From: Bonnie Clark <fishbait@televar.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Up and Flying Again
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 09:39:54 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.13954.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to Glenna I am back on here again. Keep those votes coming and
thanks Joyce for taking the votes while the server had me disconnected.
Bonnie Clark
fishbait@televar.com
P.S.  Would the guy whose name I lost when I got disconnected that used
Print Master Gold for printing patterns please e-mail me at the above
address.
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 10:47:14 1997
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	id m0w0XK9-0001Npa; Fri, 28 Feb 97 10:46 PST
X-Path: fast.net!warnerc
From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Psst! Did anyone hear??
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:43:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.84328.0>
References: <<1997Feb26.195828.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hilary A. Bobker wrote:
> 
> > Hi everyone,
> > My message must have got drowned somewhere, but I did offer this old
> > body to do anything you felt I could do (other than being Editor)....
> > I did also offer to kick-off  by sifting through all volunteers and
> > list them all in "one swoop".  That was about a week ago now..
> > Nobody heard me, nobody responded, nobody loves me no more....    :-(
> > Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> oh, dear, how could you possibly think that we don't love you anymore?
> And if not you, at least Toby??!!:-)
> 
> I haven't had much 'puter time and my server went on the fritz over the
> weekend. Things are going to be a little busy for awhile...
> 
> This Saturday four of us are going on the "field trip" to Warner C. in
> Allentown. The other three have never been there and I keep warning them
> that they are in BIG trouble. The store is sooooooo nicely laid out and
> the glass is sooooooo accessable, that it is virtually impossible to
> walk out without spending a fortune. This will also be the first time
> that I have been able to shop there without a husband waiting somewhere
> with a book! There is supposed to be someone doing demonstrations on
> Saturdays too. Can't wait to see what that is about. There is always
> more to learn.
> 
> When are you coming over? I'll be happy to take you up there.
> 
> Scratch Toby good behind the ears. Spunkie and Charley send licks.
> 
> Take care,
> Hilary
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Hilary,
Glad to hear you will be  visiting us again! You will be able to enjoy
our glass clinic which begins at 11:00 am. They are usually on foiling
techniques, glass demonstations, how-to-do things, whatever interests
the customers that day. I would like to know what time you will be
arriving. Maybe we could meet and we could set up at tour. Let me know!
Elenie
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 10:47:25 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Spammed again?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:53:26 +0000
Message-ID: <199702281846.NAA24923@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Mike,

Isn't it trying enough for the group to be spammed without you doing 
your usual repeat-the-whole-message-when-a-mere-line-or-two-would
-suffice trick? By my lights, that's kindasorta a spam, too.

Albert
Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 12:31:04 1997
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X-Path: Wittenberg.EDU!CUTLER
From: cutler@Wittenberg.EDU
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Spammed again?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:29:24 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.102924.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I read once somewhere that the way to deal with spammers is for everyone
on the list to flood the spammer with messages.  This brings the server to
a halt and to the attention of its operators.  So I've heard?  If we all
respond to the next one in conert perhaps it will work.
Cutler

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 12:56:17 1997
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From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Spammed again?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 14:56:42 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.85642.0>
References: <<1997Feb28.102924.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

cutler@Wittenberg.EDU wrote:
> 
> I read once somewhere that the way to deal with spammers is for everyone
> on the list to flood the spammer with messages.  This brings the server to
> a halt and to the attention of its operators.  So I've heard?  If we all
> respond to the next one in conert perhaps it will work.
> Cutler


No, No, No, No, No.....

Bad idea!  This very possibly could back-fire on your e-mail server or
the Bungi server.  To effectively flood a spammer, it takes more mail
than this group could probably generate.  The most effective way to deal
with spammers is to contact the Postmaster of the domain that is
creating the spam.  It just so happens, my son knows this particular
Postmaster and the problem will be dealt with.

Shirley and her mail servers
Grapeland, Tx.
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 13:18:28 1997
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From: "last name:Anthony" <panthony@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Spammed again?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:16:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.111646.0>
References: <<1997Feb28.102924.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

cutler@Wittenberg.EDU wrote:
> 
> I read once somewhere that the way to deal with spammers is for everyone
> on the list to flood the spammer with messages.  This brings the server to
> a halt and to the attention of its operators.  So I've heard?  If we all
> respond to the next one in conert perhaps it will work.
> Cutler
> 


No, no, no. Two wrongs do not make a right. If he's broken the rules,
e-mail the postmaster at his server to let them know. If he's just been
a jerk, ignoring him is the best way to shut him up.
--SB
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 14:19:26 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Spammed again?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:17:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.12174.0>
References: <<199702281846.NAA24923@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> 
> Isn't it trying enough for the group to be spammed without you doing
> your usual repeat-the-whole-message-when-a-mere-line-or-two-would
> -suffice trick? By my lights, that's kindasorta a spam, too.
> 
> Albert
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


hey i forgot this time..okay??  boy oh boy you forget one little time...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 14:28:27 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Psst! Did anyone hear??
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:43:14 +0000
Message-ID: <199702282227.WAA01293@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



Dear Hilary,
Thank you so much for you kind comments. In case my "message" has 
been lost over the last year or so - I am so much in "awe"over the 
facilities and resources (and prices) tha you folks have in USA as 
regards stained glass.  I have said this before; WE over HERE may 
have the TRADITIONS and the ANCIENT SKILLS;
you over there
certainly have the technology, resources and the 21st Century enthusiasm 
IF ONLY, if only we could marry the two........
Now and then,  I too cry out for help in a technical, sourcing 
quest. PLEASE, if anyone can help me with my "Small Flemish", I will 
be over the moon....

Exchange travel from USA to UK and from UK to USA is quite a project.
It's not easy for you, it's even more difficult for us.However, 
Elisabeth has "pencilled in" a time - yet to be deterined-  in 
June/July/August/September  1998 for coming to USA.
So watch this space!!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby  (who is quite "pig-headed" already....     ;-)   )

Hilary wrote:
oh, dear, how could you possibly think that we don't love you anymore?
And if not you, at least Toby??!!:-)

I haven't had much 'puter time and my server went on the fritz over the
weekend. Things are going to be a little busy for awhile...

When are you coming over? I'll be happy to take you up there.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 14:28:30 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Our busted lamp
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:43:14 +0000
Message-ID: <199702282227.WAA01296@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Albert,
I may be "way off" here, but for the last 3 months I have been 
looking for "small Flemish textured clear glass" to do a restoration. 
There is "large" Flemish, English Flemish, but "small " Flemish has not 
been manufactured for "some years". I was told recently that it has 
now begun to come back on the market.. All I need is about 18 x 18 
inches. I am restoring a front door for an Artist. It is a very 
precise and "researched" restoration required. I have managed to 
match everything else, but this SMALL Flemish, has totally defeated 
me.
Could your "Referral System" help??
Could ANYONE help????
Elisabeth 'n Toby


Albert wrote:
<We run a Referral Service for glass studios and artists. If you'll 
give us your zip code, we can point you to local studios that might 
be able to help you.  (If you'd prefer a printed copy of that list, 
send your street mailing address privately by email and we'll be glad 
to do that.)

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 14:28:30 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Psst! Did anyone hear??
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:43:14 +0000
Message-ID: <199702282227.WAA01299@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Joyce, dear Heart,
Busy  preparing patterns too. Why, Oh Why, are the georgeous 
Americans ALWAYS so impatient.....
All good things come to those who wait
OR
GOD, please make me patient, But WHY did you not do it,  the  Day after 
Tomorrow!!?
Elisabeth 'n Toby?

Joyce Wrote:
I personally am still waiting for patterns to come in...no patterns no 
work to do...no volunteers to contact, etc, etc.  And also waiting for 
the results of the vote on March 1st to see exactly what work needs to 
be done.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 15:28:50 1997
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From: phil & cindy <phil7@.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Spammed again?
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:02:57 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.8257.0>
References: <<1997Feb28.102924.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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This might only urge them on :)

phil7


cutler@Wittenberg.EDU wrote:
> 
> I read once somewhere that the way to deal with spammers is for everyone
> on the list to flood the spammer with messages.

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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 16:18:11 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Spammed again?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:23:36 +0000
Message-ID: <199703010017.TAA15963@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


> No, no, no. Two wrongs do not make a right. If he's broken the rules,
> e-mail the postmaster at his server to let them know. If he's just been
> a jerk, ignoring him is the best way to shut him up.

They're more clever than that ... usually a note to either the 
spammer *or his postmaster will be returned as undeliverable. I just 
delete 'em and forget 'em.  (Some of them I save 'cause they might be 
interesting, *then I forget 'em and they clog up my hard drive and 
eventually I buy a new computer with a clean drive and *then they're 
gone.) <g>

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 16:18:11 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Our busted lamp
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:23:36 +0000
Message-ID: <199703010017.TAA15966@ns.computer.net>
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Precedence: bulk


> There is "large" Flemish, English Flemish, but "small " Flemish has not 
> been manufactured for "some years". I was told recently that it has 
> now begun to come back on the market.

Ah, wish I could help, but I can't point you in any particular 
direction ... except the glass you describe calls up images of some 
of the domestic machine glass made by DESAG in Germany. Have you 
tried them?  I asked Julie Sloan if she had any leads on it; she said 
you actually have a better chance at it in England, that PPG used to 
make it here in the US, but as far as she knows it isn't made here 
any longer.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 16:18:46 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Spammed again?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:23:36 +0000
Message-ID: <199703010017.TAA15973@ns.computer.net>
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> hey i forgot this time..okay??  boy oh boy you forget one little time...

All is forgiven, Mike. Please come home. <s>

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 16:26:42 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Psst! Did anyone hear??
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:11:04 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.19114.0>
References: <<1997Feb28.84328.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HABit Fashion Services
Precedence: bulk

> Glad to hear you will be  visiting us again! You will be able to enjoy
> our glass clinic which begins at 11:00 am. They are usually on foiling
> techniques, glass demonstations, how-to-do things, whatever interests
> the customers that day. I would like to know what time you will be
> arriving. Maybe we could meet and we could set up at tour. Let me know!
> Elenie

Elenie,
Wow, a tour sounds great! Our original plan was to meet there at 10:00,
but I may have to take one of the dawgies to the vet in the morning, so
it may get pushed back to 11:00. We plan on being there for several
hours, either way. The demos are one of the reasons we are coming. I
have been trying to get up ever since I got your flyer saying that they
were being started. Will it be possible to see how equipment works, or
more specifically, the Bevel Max works?

If I don't hear from you before we get there, I'll look for you and
maybe we can meet up that way. There are four of us. We all work
together and have been taking classes at the local stained glass
store...which is, of course, pitiful compared to Warner-C!

Hope to see you soon,
Hilary
----
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 16:27:29 1997
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	id m0w0cdm-0000Fca; Fri, 28 Feb 97 16:27 PST
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Our busted lamp
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:25:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Feb28.142528.0>
References: <<199702282227.WAA01296@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:
> 
> Albert,
> I may be "way off" here, but for the last 3 months I have been
> looking for "small Flemish textured clear glass" to do a restoration.
> There is "large" Flemish, English Flemish, but "small " Flemish has not
> been manufactured for "some years". I was told recently that it has
> now begun to come back on the market.. All I need is about 18 x 18
> inches. I am restoring a front door for an Artist. It is a very
> precise and "researched" restoration required. I have managed to
> match everything else, but this SMALL Flemish, has totally defeated
> me.
> Could your "Referral System" help??
> Could ANYONE help????
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> Albert wrote:
> <We run a Referral Service for glass studios and artists. If you'll
> give us your zip code, we can point you to local studios that might
> be able to help you.  (If you'd prefer a printed copy of that list,
> send your street mailing address privately by email and we'll be glad
> to do that.)
> 
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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i have an idea you could try, maybe you can make a mold of the
exisisting glass. then slump the glass into the little bumps. it might
work... or i wonder if there is a antique shop near you, that may have
taken that very glass out of a window somewhere. then of course there's
the salvage yard, not sure if they have those across the world, but they
might. that type of place has stuff like mantles, bar tops, and old
clawfoot tubs.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 17:54:00 1997
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	id m0w0dz7-0001dha; Fri, 28 Feb 97 17:53 PST
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From: bonnie sylvester <bsylvest@osf1.gmu.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 21:18:54 -0800
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Youghiogheny Glass is at 2621 W. Crawford Ave Connellsville Pa           
 412-628-3000
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From owner-glass Fri Feb 28 20:39:13 1997
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	id m0w0gZS-0001Bza; Fri, 28 Feb 97 20:38 PST
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From: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@snet.net>
To: "'glass'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject:    Atlas Vote                 
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:36:50 -0500
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=20
 I vote for a soft copy.  My pattern for the Aids Ribbon is on it's way =
to Garden of Glass via snail mail.

  I would like to say Thank You to all that gave me suggestions on where =
to find a pattern of a Pig.  I will use the one from the Spectrum Web =
Site.

  As soon as I can I will put together a material list with measurements =
for making a portable Light Box.

Tim Byrnes

Remember:  Nothing real can be threatened
                     Nothing unreal exists
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