From owner-glass Wed Jan  1 06:51:38 1997
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From: "H. Taylor Buckner" <taylor_buckner@sympatico.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Membership in IGGA
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:49:35 -0500
Message-ID: <199701011449.JAA02293@smtp1.sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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        Hi Albert,
        Sorry to be so long in getting back to you.  I've been away for the
holidays and just returned.  Thanks for mailing the membership application.
As I mentioned, I tried to do it on-line but for some reason it took such an
unbelievably long time to down-load the applic. form that I thought there
was something wrong.  Probably not, but I'll wait for the mail version now.
Hope you enjoyed the holidays and will have a happy and healthy 1997.
Jennifer 

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From owner-glass Wed Jan  1 06:55:21 1997
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From: "H. Taylor Buckner" <taylor_buckner@sympatico.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Ivy Pattern
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:53:15 -0500
Message-ID: <199701011453.JAA02435@smtp1.sympatico.ca>
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        Hi April,
        Seems we got our communications crossed before Christmas (not to
mention our time zones!).  I got your regular mail address when I returned
and the patterns are now in the mail.  I hope you can make something of
them.   Jennifer

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From owner-glass Wed Jan  1 08:27:42 1997
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From: April Paine <vgplugs@primeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Ivy Pattern
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 97 11:31:41 PST
Message-ID: <1997Jan1.193141.0>
References: <<199701011453.JAA02435@smtp1.sympatico.ca>>
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        Hi April,
        Seems we got our communications crossed before Christmas (not to
mention our time zones!).  I got your regular mail address when I returned
and the patterns are now in the mail.  I hope you can make something of
them.   Jennifer

-
Thanks a  lot I have been working in "glass eye" which I think is truely
the ultimate gift to stain glass designers.....and I still haven't even
got my upgrade.... I can create with skill and precision what used to
take me hours is now only minutes!!!!
April 
vgplugs@primeline.com
Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass

Homestead-Work-request@Esosoft.com
	        subscribe
Discussion list for self-employed homesteaders





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From owner-glass Wed Jan  1 08:34:38 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM>
To: BlindCopyReceiver:;@compuserve,.com
Subject: IGGA Online Memo 1/1/97
Date: 01 Jan 97 11:16:22 EST
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IGGA Online News Memo                             January 1, 1997
_________________________________________________________________
        A hypertext version of this memo can be found at
                http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
_________________________________________________________________

Happy New Year!
>From The International Guild
of Glass Artists

Best wishes for the coming year from the members of the Board of
Directors and the Advisory Committee to all of you who work with
glass as an art or craft medium.

     Gerry Phibbs, Chair; Avery H. Anderson, Vice Chair; Mary Ann
     Celinder, Secretary; Members of the Board: Avery Anderson,
     Jessy Carrara, Mary Ann Celinder, Lutz Haufschild, Jay
     Petersen, Gerry Phibbs, William N. Smith; Advisory
     Committee: Peter J. Chiomenti, John Emery, Robert Mickelsen,
     Monona Rossol.
_________________________________________________________________

Source'97 offers buyers
choice of order placing or cash & carry

Source'97, the largest professionally oriented trade show for the
art glass industry, offers the art glass professional both buying
and educational  choices. Designed  specifically to fill industry
needs, the International Art Glass Suppliers Trade Show gets down
to business  27-28 June  1997  at the Baltimore Convention Center
in Baltimore,  MD. Here,  buyers may  place orders  with top-line
exhibitors for  later delivery  or pay  for merchandise  and take
delivery on the spot in an environment best suited for business.

Extensive educational  sessions, 25-26-27  June 1997  at the same
location, will  feature hands-on  workshops  and  demonstrations,
along with  the traditionally strong line-up of business-oriented
seminars geared specifically to attendees' needs.

Additional market  activities include:  Happy Hour,  AGSA  Party,
AGSA Annual  Meeting and  Open Category Meetings, Silent Auction,
Exhibitor Demos,  Discover What's  New and  even a few surprises.
Complete registration  details and  all  information  needed  for
attendees to  make their  education  selections  will  be  mailed
shortly in a special show brochure.

The following exhibitors have already committed and/or contracted
space with  Source'97, as  of 17  December 1996:  American  Hakko
Products, Inc.;  Art Glass  House, Inc.; Austin Thin Films, Inc.;
Bovard Studio,  Inc.; Black Creek Enterprises, Inc.; Blenko Glass
Co.,  Inc.;  Bradley  Base  Products;  Canfield  Quality  Solder;
Chicago Art Glass & Jewels, Inc.; The Chicago Metallic Corp.; CKE
Publications; Classic American Lighting; Cliffside Studios; D & L
Stained  Glass   Supply,  Inc.;  Eastman  Corp./Publishers;  Edco
Copper; Ed  Hoy's International;  Emerald Rainbow;  Esico-Triton;
Evenheat Kiln,  Inc.; E-Z  Flux; The Fletcher-Terry Co.; Galleria
Heritage,  Inc.;   Gauthier  Non-Ferrous   Products;  Gemini  Saw
Company;  Glass   Art  Magazine;  The  Glass  Workbench;  Handley
Industries Ltd.;  Hixson Studios;  Hoevel Manufacturing;  Houston
Stained Glass  Supply; Inland  Craft Products; Keyline Int'l. Art
Glass Corp.;  Kokomo Opalescent Glass Co.; The Mead Co.; Mega(TM)
Marbles/VACOR USA;  Mika International, Inc.; Morton Glass Works,
Inc.; Moss  Stained Glass;  National Artcraft  Co.; Odyssey  Lamp
Systems, Inc.; Paragon Industries, Inc.; Paul Wissmach Glass Co.;
Professional Glass  Consultants; Rings  & Things; Royalty Stained
Glass, Inc.;  Spectrum Glass  Co.; Stained  Glass Association  of
America;  Stained  Glass  Designers  Association;  Stained  Glass
Images, Inc.;  Studio Design,  Inc. (Rainbow  Art Glass); Suzanne
Cooper, Inc.;  Unique Glass Colors; Uroboros Glass Studios, Inc.;
Venture Tape  Corp.; Vitrographics  Publications; Wale  Apparatus
Co.,  Inc.;   Wardell  Publications,   Inc.;   and   Youghiogheny
Opalescent Glass Co., Inc.

The following  schedule of  events is  supplied to help attendees
make early show travel arrangements:

     Wednesday, 25 June
     10:00 am -- 6:00 pm -- Registration/Ticket sales
     11:00 am -- 6:00 pm -- Seminars/workshops
     
     Thursday, 26 June
     8:00 am -- 6:00 pm -- Registration/Ticket sales
     8:30 am -- 6:00 pm -- Seminars/workshops
     6:30 pm -- 8:00 pm -- Exhibitor demos
     
     Friday, 27 June
     8:00 am -- 9:00 am -- Committee meetings
     8:00 am -- 6:00 pm -- Registration/Ticket sales
     9:00 am -- 11:00 am -- Seminars/workshops
     11:00 am -- 6:00 pm -- Exhibits open
     6:00 pm -- 7:00 pm -- Happy Hour
     8:30 pm -- Midnight -- AGSA Party
     
     Saturday, 28 June
     8:30 am -- 10:00 am -- Annual meeting
     9:00 am -- 4:00 pm -- Registration
     10:00 am -- 4:00 pm -- Exhibits open
(Schedule is subject to change.)

Special hotel  and travel  discounts  are  available  by  calling
Carlson   Wagonlit   Travel   at   1-800-878-6767   (614-455-6767
internationally or  in Ohio)  Monday through Friday, 8 am to 7 pm
or Saturday,  9 am  to 1  pm. Only  by calling  this number  will
attendees be  able to take advantage of show discounts negotiated
for the event on hotels, airline and car rental reservations.

No one  under 14  will be admitted to the trade show floor or the
educational  sessions.  Registration  requires  specific  IDs  to
qualify the  trade: show  resale tax  certificate and  two  other
business IDs.  Cost to  non-members to  enter the exhibits is $25
per person.  AGSA Members  may enter  the show free; IGGA members
may enter  the show  at half price. For more information, contact
AGSA Headquarters at numbers or by email.

Source'97 is  sponsored by  the Art  Glass Suppliers  Association
International, a  dynamic not-for-profit  organization  promoting
the art  glass supplies  and  products  industry  throughout  the
world.  The  mission  of  the  Art  Glass  Suppliers  Association
International is  to create  awareness, knowledge and involvement
for the  growth and  prosperity of  the art  glass industry.  Its
goals are  to serve as a clearing house for the exchange of ideas
and information,  sponsor seminars,  conferences and  educational
meetings, hold  trade shows,  monitor legislative  and regulatory
issues,  publish  information  and  otherwise  provide  services,
assistance and  support to the field of art and decorative glass.
Current membership is more than 700 worldwide.

For information  about exhibiting  at or attending Source'97, the
International  Art  Glass  Suppliers  Trade  Show,  contact  AGSA
Headquarters, P.O.  Box  2188,  Zanesville,  OH  43702-2188,  fax
614-452-2552, tel 614-452-4541, email agsa.info@offinger.com

_________________________________________________________________
Our Mission: To facilitate communication among glass artists, to
  encourage education and promote excellence in the glass arts.
           __________________________________________
           International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
           Tonetta Lake Road  ***   Brewster NY 10509
           (914) 278-2152 [msg]   Fax: (914) 278-2481
           __________________________________________
           Web site: http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
              Membership info: bksmith@juno.com

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From owner-glass Wed Jan  1 18:19:02 1997
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From: LNETWORKS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Snow, Snow and more Snow
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 21:18:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan1.161834.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I remember too well, used to live in Montana (Billings) that's why I moved to
Hawaii, and now to Florida.  Keep warm and try not to flood out.  I used to
have to shovel off the roof to keep it from caving in, too!!!   Happy New
Year Everyone, and a rich and Prosperous 1997 to us all!!!!! 

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
Staying warm in Florida
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From owner-glass Wed Jan  1 20:52:53 1997
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Frank M. Stryczek, Jr." <fstryczek@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 97 20:50:22 -0500
Message-ID: <199701020451.UAA16040@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

This is Howard, and I have had a little experience in using Odyssey forms
and wax as well as trying to remove wax...it ain't easy.

.....in a word.............DON'T.

Why do you feel a need to tacky wax the WHOLE form?????(Because the
instructions tell you to)

Think about the need to stick all the pieces on.....

Why not just the top area, and fit and foil as you go, seeing as how you
have all the pieces cut and by using a light table will see how the shade
will look both lit and un-lit. You can tack glass on in a large open area,
and then fill the area and continue until all done.....

Pitfalls to fitting as you go, the solder and exposed foil will oxidize a
bit due the elapsed time of the construction....use an OIL based flux.

willing to spend more time with you if I am not wasting MY time on
instructions that you will ignore.

Enjoy.............H 




--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 09:54:36 1997
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Where's Everyone?
Date: Thu,  2 Jan 97 10:53:52 -0700
Message-ID: <m0vfrKz-000LiCC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1996Dec30.1389.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
> So how's your
> week been?  T. in Montana

fine, thanks for asking. it's been in the mid 70's for the last couple of  
weeks. my wife is complaining though. she hasn't gotten a chance to use her  
sweaters yet this year.

charlie@az.stratus.com in sunny phoenix
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 11:32:43 1997
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From: llutz <llutz@tpgi.com.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Snow, Snow and more Snow
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 00:14:11 +1100
Message-ID: <1997Jan3.111411.0>
References: <<1997Jan1.161834.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

LNETWORKS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I remember too well, used to live in Montana (Billings) that's why I moved to
> Hawaii, and now to Florida.  Keep warm and try not to flood out.  I used to
> have to shovel off the roof to keep it from caving in, too!!!   Happy New
> Year Everyone, and a rich and Prosperous 1997 to us all!!!!!
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> Staying warm in Florida
And that is why I live in NSW in Australia- grew up in snow & ice vowing
to get out of there to somewhere it is warm all year. It never snows
where I live and I saw snow for the first time in 20 years just
recently- driving through the mountains to Sydney. Needless to say- I
didn't get out to revel in it- just kept driving to get out of there.
Larry from Oz

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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 12:24:06 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: glass tiles
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:22:37 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199701022022.OAA01616@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for all the suggestions for uses for the glass tiles. 

The idea of using them in some kind of lighting is something I think I'll
fiddle with. It would be a refreshing change of pace to fabricate items that
were not as labor intensive as my usual work.

It was also suggested that I build a lighted fountain with them this sounds
like an exciting project even though at this point I have no idea what the
darn thing would look like.

In the mean time I'll disassemble the panels and box them and I will do a
little investigating to see if they have any resale value.

Thanks again for all the ideas

Len 


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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 12:45:13 1997
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X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy
From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 15:41:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan2.104124.0>
References: <<199701020451.UAA16040@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

i've only tackled one Odessey lamp, and did cover the whole form. I
tried the 'little dab' of wax method, but found that the glass stuck up
a bit from the form, making the seam uneven. (some pieces laid higher or
lower) I found the thin painted on layer allowed the glass to follow the
curve of the form better. I was looking for a smooth contour of the
lamp, but some may like the irregularity of 'lumpy seams'. Try the
little dab method on one area, and see how you like it. If not, cover
the whole form. the way I found to 'decant' the form was to cover a
large area with newspaper, put a small hot plate on 'LOW' in the center
of the paper, and place the lamp form over the hot plate. The top
portion of the lamp will loosen first, and it may take an hour or so to
soften the wax around the lower rim. If you hold the form down with a
screwdriver, or piece of wood, and GENTLY pry the rim of the lamp up
with a screw driver, or other lever, you can hasten the release. Then
you get the fun job of cleaning the wax off the mold and form. Since you
are using a hot plate and a combustible petrochemical, CAUTION is
needed. Take it slow, and be patient waiting for the lamp to warm up
enuff to let the wax melt. You don't want to loose the lamp, your shop
or home just because you can't wait to see what the lamp looks like. I
have heard of a technique that uses a light bulb, in a porcelain socket,
but I don't have that much patience myself. Good luck and BE
CAREFUL!!!
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 13:17:58 1997
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Where's Everyone?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:39:36 +0000
Message-ID: <199701022117.VAA10046@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



You wrote:
> So how's your
> week been?  T. in Montana

 Hi All!
I've got a stinking cold, ears,eyes and nose drippng; cooked Dinner for 
10 on Christmas Eve. Freeze set in on Christmas Day and hasn't let up 
since. Only a couple of inches of snow, but the wind has been 
howling, making the "chill-factor" quite severe. My central heating 
boiler  gave up the ghost 4 days ago (the national gas board can't 
come for another 3 weeks, private gas companies  are totally 
innundated with burst pipes, so  I have to wait another week for my 
"turn"). My pipes froze too last night, but luckily didn't burst. So 
I spent most of today with a hair-drier  thawing the pipes out.
I COULD have kept warm, if I hadn't run out of logs for the open 
fire, so I have now spent a couple of days running around  knocking 
on doors, begging for logs.  Electric heaters would also have been 
great, if I had any.... Almost just as good if the shops had any to 
sell also......
At the latest news that I heard, the cold weather has killed 6 people 
so far, but I'm darned if it's going to get ME!!
Happy New Year to ALL of you!!!

One frozen Viking in UK
alias
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 14:34:42 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Where's Everyone?
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:30:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan2.123030.0>
References: <<199701022117.VAA10046@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> You wrote:
> > So how's your
> > week been?  T. in Montana
> 
>  Hi All!
> I've got a stinking cold, ears,eyes and nose drippng; cooked Dinner for
> 10 on Christmas Eve. Freeze set in on Christmas Day and hasn't let up
> since. Only a couple of inches of snow, but the wind has been
> howling, making the "chill-factor" quite severe. My central heating
> boiler  gave up the ghost 4 days ago (the national gas board can't
> come for another 3 weeks, private gas companies  are totally
> innundated with burst pipes, so  I have to wait another week for my
> "turn"). My pipes froze too last night, but luckily didn't burst. So
> I spent most of today with a hair-drier  thawing the pipes out.
> I COULD have kept warm, if I hadn't run out of logs for the open
> fire, so I have now spent a couple of days running around  knocking
> on doors, begging for logs.  Electric heaters would also have been
> great, if I had any.... Almost just as good if the shops had any to
> sell also......
> At the latest news that I heard, the cold weather has killed 6 people
> so far, but I'm darned if it's going to get ME!!
> Happy New Year to ALL of you!!!
> 
> One frozen Viking in UK
> alias
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


welp at least you still have electricity, unless you have a monkey
turning a crank, making your computer turn on. we just got a new room
heater which is working out pretty well... 

well anyway i've been busy updating my page again got a portion of my
tips up. so far i've been averaging about 40-60 hits a day. i have no
idea where there all coming from, mainly because when i do a search i
never find my page, but someone's finding it.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 16:37:00 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass tiles
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:36:13 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan2.143613.0>
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re: glass tiles

I know whittemore-durgin sells alot of "repurposed glass".
They may be willing to buy the lot.

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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 17:08:28 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 17:05:49 -0500
Message-ID: <199701030107.RAA27991@kim.teleport.com>
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

How much FUN did you have removing residual wax from the glass? I would
guess there is still some clinging to the shade even as I type.

enjoy..........H
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 18:33:11 1997
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From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 21:14:28 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan2.131428.0>
References: <<199701020451.UAA16040@kim.teleport.com>>
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Howard:

Thanks for the tip on oil based flux. I've hard copied your response and 
am interested in other tips for form work.  You've already stated your 
feelings for pins, how about double sided tape?
I'm looking at the 30% sale on forms that came in the mail today. Do you 
have any suggestion for a first timer on which projects are better to 
begin with? 

and I do listen, and follow useful, proven (your site), leaders of a 
particular discipline. My jewelry box and silverware chest skills were 
taught by a real master. I listened and gained his position upon 
retirement. Many give ideas, maybe's, but few give bare facts.

Enough, or Elizabeth will pitch in with some viking saying.

Phil7@tiac.net





Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote:

> 
> -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> 
> This is Howard, and I have had a little experience in using Odyssey forms
> and wax as well as trying to remove wax...it ain't easy.
> 
> .....in a word.............DON'T.
> 
> Why do you feel a need to tacky wax the WHOLE form?????(Because the
> instructions tell you to)
> 
> Think about the need to stick all the pieces on.....
> 
> Why not just the top area, and fit and foil as you go, seeing as how you
> have all the pieces cut and by using a light table will see how the shade
> will look both lit and un-lit. You can tack glass on in a large open area,
> and then fill the area and continue until all done.....
> 
> Pitfalls to fitting as you go, the solder and exposed foil will oxidize a
> bit due the elapsed time of the construction....use an OIL based flux.
> 
> willing to spend more time with you if I am not wasting MY time on
> instructions that you will ignore.
> 
> Enjoy.............H
> 
> --
> New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
>                  http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard
> 
> E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com
> 
> ----
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> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 20:16:20 1997
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From: fstryczek@juno.com (Frank M. Stryczek, Jr.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Tacky Wax.
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 23:11:31 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan3.41131.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to all for your advice on the use of tacky wax.  You've provided
me with a lot of food for thought and many really good suggestions.  Its
great to know your there for guidance and support.

Sincerely,

Frank
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 20:56:42 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass tiles
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:49:12 PST
Message-ID: <1997Jan3.34912.0>
References: <<199612301631.KAA15909@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I personally think they'd be great to use in the bathroom or as an entry
hall feature. They would really lighten up any dark areas.

Mary




On Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:31:16 -0600 (CST) len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
writes:
> hi folks,
>
> I have about 1100 4"sq. clear glass tiles, one side fluted (?) other 
>side
>ribbed and some with a sort of teardrop pattern. I removed them (in 
>large
>panels) from a store front transom area that was being restored back 
>to the
>original 1890's facade. I guesstimate that the tile panels were 
>probably
>installed in the 20's.
>
>My intention was to use them for a commission in a new home but the 
>owner
>decided not to go with the glass block look which he decided was on 
>the
>verge of being passe'
>
>So they have been sitting outside still in the zinc panels and they 
>need to
>be *repurposed* (just heard that one, you think it will catch on?)
>
>My choices are to disassemble the panels and store the tiles.. try to 
>sell
>them or get some advice on how to use the tiles as some kind of craft 
>item
>or other project. They are .375 thick but they cut quite easily
>
>Has anyone got any ideas other then coasters or trivets (sp?) I though 
>about
>tiling a bathroom floor/wall with them :-)
>
>I would appreciate any and all ideas and suggestions for a use for 
>this
>material especially since my SO is tired of looking at those things 
>lying
>against the side of the house 
>
>Len
>
>OBTW... if anyone is interested let me know and I'll send a sample
>
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 20:57:17 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Ivy Pattern
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:59:52 PST
Message-ID: <1997Jan3.35952.0>
References: <<199701011453.JAA02435@smtp1.sympatico.ca>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Is there a charge for copies of the pattern?? If so what are they? I'd be
interested in recieving a copy of them too. Thanks !!!
Mary
diamonds@juno.com



On Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:53:15 -0500 "H. Taylor Buckner"
<taylor_buckner@sympatico.ca> writes:
>        Hi April,
>        Seems we got our communications crossed before Christmas (not 
>to
>mention our time zones!).  I got your regular mail address when I 
>returned
>and the patterns are now in the mail.  I hope you can make something 
>of
>them.   Jennifer
>
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 22:15:03 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Frank M. Stryczek, Jr." <fstryczek@juno.com>,
Subject: wax
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 22:12:24 -0500
Message-ID: <199701030614.WAA23465@kim.teleport.com>
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Frank, a few more questions.....How have you, or will you affix the crown
and branches to the form?

Do you have a lamp leveler (Worden 330)....

My advice for using an oil based flux was to minimize the oxidation on the
foil of a long project. I use glasstar water based flux and used sparingly,
the oxidation is kept to a minimum.  The flux rarely sputters, especially if
you do not go back and forth trapping it under the solder.

I am glad you have done the "light table" viewing.


What glass(s) have you used for the wisteria.

An unabashed plug....I can have a leveler dropped shipped to you from any of
my wholesalers if you do not have one.....WELL woth using!!!!

more if you ask
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Thu Jan  2 22:15:06 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 22:12:18 -0500
Message-ID: <199701030614.WAA23417@kim.teleport.com>
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Hello Philip........by your post, I am assuming you are going to do a
"Worden" on the styrofoam form.

I can see no reason not to do pins on a Worden.

If you do an Odyssey.....no tape no pins....WAX! (only the top row)

I have done over 200 domes, so I do have a slight clue.

I can and will gladly advise you on "which" and the pitfalls of anyone you
favor. Help me....size, pieces, shape, application, access to glass and so
forth. Approximate time you can spend on it, perserverance level (patience).

I rent Odyssey, and can have Worden shipped to you as well....lots of
pattern tricks....IN truth, not as willing to put in a lot of time if their
is nothing in it for me.....Perhaps a deep discount may not be worth as much
if the support is not there (support from one who does this for MONEY and
works effectively as well).

A bit of communication to whet you thought processes...enjoy.....H





-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

Date: Thursday, 02-Jan-97 09:14 PM

From: Philip McRae             \ Internet:    (phil7@tiac.net)
To:   Glass list               \ Internet:    (glass@bungi.com)

Subject: Re: Tacky Wax

Howard:

Thanks for the tip on oil based flux. I've hard copied your response and 
am interested in other tips for form work.  You've already stated your 
feelings for pins, how about double sided tape?
I'm looking at the 30% sale on forms that came in the mail today. Do you 
have any suggestion for a first timer on which projects are better to 
begin with? 

and I do listen, and follow useful, proven (your site), leaders of a 
particular discipline. My jewelry box and silverware chest skills were 
taught by a real master. I listened and gained his position upon  retirement
. Many give ideas, maybe's, but few give bare facts.

Enough, or Elizabeth will pitch in with some viking saying.

Phil7@tiac.net





Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote:

> 
> -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> 
> This is Howard, and I have had a little experience in using Odyssey forms
> and wax as well as trying to remove wax...it ain't easy.
> 
> .....in a word.............DON'T.
> 
> Why do you feel a need to tacky wax the WHOLE form?????(Because the
> instructions tell you to)
> 
> Think about the need to stick all the pieces on.....
> 
> Why not just the top area, and fit and foil as you go, seeing as how you
> have all the pieces cut and by using a light table will see how the shade
> will look both lit and un-lit. You can tack glass on in a large open area,
> and then fill the area and continue until all done.....
> 
> Pitfalls to fitting as you go, the solder and exposed foil will oxidize a
> bit due the elapsed time of the construction....use an OIL based flux.
> 
> willing to spend more time with you if I am not wasting MY time on
> instructions that you will ignore.
> 
> Enjoy.............H
> 
> --
> New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
>                  http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard
> 
> E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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-------- REPLY, End of original message --------


--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Fri Jan  3 10:15:42 1997
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From: "Tomasz Bielinski" <witraze@qdnet.pl>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Summary: Authenticated sender is <witraze@post.qdnet.pl>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:19:00 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan3.12190.0>
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Hello,
Can't you just use a hot water to remove the pieces???

Tomek
==========================================
Tomasz Bielinski
email:        witraze@qdnet.pl
http://www2.gol.com/users/kropka/witraze/intro-e.html
tel/fax:      48 22 150417
=============================================
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From owner-glass Fri Jan  3 10:35:22 1997
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From: Guitarshop@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:34:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan3.83448.0>
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Hello Tom:

I will admit up front, that I don't have the as much experience with tacky
wax as others do.  I have only used it once in the construction of a 20"
dragonfly.  I painted a THIN layer of wax all over the mould.  I also used
Oddossey's suggestion and soldered a few wire "handles" around the bottom of
the shade.  When the shade was finished soldered, I placed it in the back of
my car (with newspapers underneath) for about 4 hours.  This was done in the
summer time, so I guestimated the temperature inside the car was about 140
degrees.  Once the wax had softened, I was able to easily remove the shade
using the aforementioned handles to lift the shade from the form.  I used a
hair dryer and an old credit card (probably the safest use of a credit card
<BG>) to remove the wax from the form.  I also used the hair dryer to help
remove the bulk of the wax that was left on the shade.  I then used C.J.'s
flux remover to get the rest of the wax off of the glass, followed by several
scrubbings with common liquid dish soap to finish up.

I know that this information is probably redundant.  I guess that I just
wanted you to know that it can be done.

Good luck,

Michael & Donna McGrew
Shattered Images Studio
Houston,TX.

http://members.aol.com/Guitarshop
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From owner-glass Fri Jan  3 11:57:37 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Tomasz Bielinski <witraze@qdnet.pl>
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 11:54:45 -0500
Message-ID: <199701031956.LAA19427@kim.teleport.com>
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

NO.....to explain it a bit more...to the best of my knowledge the wax is
waterproof....and even if it did loosen up the shade, what would immersion
in water hot enough and deep enough to soften all the wax do to the
unsoldered inside of the shade??????
Your experience in doing odyssey shades INCLUDES which ones.
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Fri Jan  3 11:57:42 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: WHY????
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 11:54:49 -0500
Message-ID: <199701031956.LAA19445@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

I noticed in a few responses a need to remove the wax from the form, that
was SO carefully painted on.....Why is wax removal from the form even being
considered.
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Fri Jan  3 20:26:53 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Viking Saying?  
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 04:48:38 +0000
Message-ID: <199701040426.EAA14553@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

  Philip McRae  wrote:
 Many give ideas, maybe's, but few give bare facts.
Enough, or Elizabeth will pitch in with some viking saying.

OOUCHH!!    ;-)
However, like yourself I was very interested in Howard's contribution 
and have saved it separately for "experimenting" with. My own 
speciality is lead-work, but I still have to teach copper-foil. I 
can't teach, if I don't DO. The "doing", by necessity, has to be 
limited in the amount of time I have available. Which is why Howard's 
observations are so valueable (I wasn't just being "flippant" when I 
posted a much earlier message saying I was was pleased he was's back 
again!).

If you are interested, my peacock design is now completed and 
installed (i.e. the remaining 2 panels) and can be seen on my 
WEB-Page. The whole project ground to a halt, because Kris (my 
computer-guru) wanted me to incorporate a fuschia into the design, as 
a separate item, to commemorate the memory of the young wife of one 
of his best friends, who died last year. It could potentially have  
ruined the entire balance of my design, in any case quite delicately 
balanced,  given that it had to be spread over an area of 4 quite 
substantial panels. We eventually plan to incorporate enlarging focal 
points into this particular design on the WEB-page, so that the 
fuschia ( for instance) can be enlarged and viewed separately.
Let me know what you think of the finished  design, as now is and 
installed.
During this year, there will be further additions to my WEB-Page. 
Will keep you posted.

Viking saying??? For the moment limited to an ear-splitting  
"Hhah-hhahh-tchsch- ooooo" !!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan  3 21:33:08 1997
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From: llutz <llutz@tpgi.com.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lamp leveler
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 13:47:44 +1100
Message-ID: <1997Jan5.04744.0>
References: <<199701030614.WAA23465@kim.teleport.com>>
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Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote:
> 

> Do you have a lamp leveler (Worden 330)....
I have to ask- what is a lamp leveler and how do they work? I've never
been exposed to one. TIA
Larry from Oz


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From owner-glass Fri Jan  3 22:51:40 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 01:47:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan3.204748.0>
References: <<1997Jan3.12190.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Tomasz Bielinski wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> Can't you just use a hot water to remove the pieces???
> 
> Tomek
Yes but if you noticed I stressed my lack of patience - I found warm
kerosene does better than water, and have heard people I know say they
put newspaper on a large cookie shett, put the lamp on this and put the
whole mess in a warm oven. Whatever rows your boat
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From owner-glass Fri Jan  3 23:00:02 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy
From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: WHY????
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 01:56:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan3.20564.0>
References: <<199701031956.LAA19445@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote:
> 
> -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> 
> I noticed in a few responses a need to remove the wax from the form, that
> was SO carefully painted on.....Why is wax removal from the form even being
> considered.
If your cheap, like me, you get all the wax off, squeegee some plaster
of paris over the form to fill in the grooves, draw a new pattern on the
form, trace it to vellum, and make a different lamp. Unless you're going
to make a number of the same lamp, this gets expensive, if you're a
hobbiest, or part timer. Some of the larger forms/patterns are
expensive, and if I can reuse something, so much the better. and if you
want to go back to the original, you can use a scribe to clean the
plaster out of the grooves. If you are lucky, someone near you may rent
forms, but to buy one for each lamp takes more than I can spend right
now.
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jan  4 14:19:06 1997
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bbbrrrrr!  ... And Hark, all Beginners!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 22:40:50 +0000
Message-ID: <199701042218.WAA13591@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike Savad , and all

Yep, got electricity, managed to borrow electric heaters from kind 
neighbours, another neighbour also offered me a car-load of logs. Gas 
people coming next Thursday. So at least I haven't perished YET. But 
220 people in Europe have! In Budapest tonight it was -20 degrees 
Celcius (spoke to my old friends there tonight).
The pub in my village had frozen and burst pipes right through to the 
bar, so only iced water on offer, but no beer!!

Mike, I  had another look at your WEB-page yesterday. Looks great! 
Somehow the photography looked more crisp and better defined; the 
"fish-lamp" looked larger (or is that an illusion created by me 
getting a new pair of glasses since I last looked??) You know that I 
am a fan of your cars. I would have loved to see them bigger still.
BTW, have you decided on a name for the "fish-lamp" yet??

I don't know if I have said this to you before, but I find your 
"Tips"-page very thoughtful and  one which  ought to be very helpful 
to our "BEGINNERS", without being patronizing. Well done on that 
score! I do feel I could recommend any "Beginner" anywhere to  to pay 
particular attention to this feature of your site.
My own students learn lead technique first. I really make them sweat, 
teaching them the importance of accurate glass cutting. I don't allow 
electrical  grinders into my classes (initially) for 6 reasons;
1. Health and Safety regulations makes it very difficult
2. Grinding is no excuse for bad cutting
3. I want them to learn how to "plan" their glass usage from the very 
beginning, so that they have greater appreciation of it when they 
start doing "their own thing" 
4. I want them to learn from the very start how important accurate 
measurements are, how important it is to pay attention to details and 
how to "look" (if that makes sense);
5. About 90 per cent of glass, lead, copper foil, tools and so on - 
regretably - is imported into the UK. It is therefore really quite 
expensive. When they first start out, they have idea about what glass 
is, how it is made, how much it costs and what really is involved in 
traditional creation of stained glass.
6. The Brits have never really been able to make their "mark" 
internationally as regards taste, design or colours. The traditional 
British "craftsmanship" has been so trivialized in the last 50 - 60 
years, that it has almost been forgotten. The political regime in 
this country has not exactly encouraged pride in British produced 
goods for the last 20 years, and certainly not  as regards British 
Arts or Crafts.
When it comes to the point of the most prestigeous British Art Prize being awarded 
to some "cretin" who calls a rotting dead cow submerged into a 
transparent container of formaldehyde ART (The Turner Prize 1996!!), 
then I really do begin to  doubt the sanity of the Art World....
I think I may be forgiven in turning my back on  so called pseudo-art 
and retreat back to basics....
Hans Christian Andersen was a sage Dane; he wrote the fairy-tale of 
"The Emperor's New Clothes".  In my Viking simplicity,  I often feel 
like the little child who gets hushed up by all the so called 
grown-ups, when I shout "New Clothes!! What new clothes?? The Emperor 
is stark naked!! He hasn't got a stitch on!! Why can't you all see 
it?? You are ALL being cheated!!" .... But then I am just a child...
I think there are probably many more reasons, but I better stop here, 
or I'll be here all night and bore the pants off some of you....
 As most of us know, accurate glass cutting is even more critical when doing 
copper-foil projects. I don't do a lot of it myself "professionally", 
but because  it is another angle, another technique, and something my 
students want learn about, I need to learn, I need to know and I need 
to DO.  So people like yourself (and Len A., AND Howard) I feel very 
comfortable in acknowledging as "teachers" in aspects I myself lack 
sufficient knowledge about. Your "Tips"- page reflects this.
That's what I call sharing. ( Which is why I have decided to post 
this to Group, rather than to you alone direct).
I have been wondering whether you might agree to me including 
your site onto my own "links". If you chose to do likewise, is fine, 
but not necessary.

40 - 60 hits a day is a lot - that's what I get a WEEK. The 
interesting thing is that Kris (my computer guru), provides me with a 
break-down of  where the hits are actually coming from (if I can find 
the time to go through them). This break-down even includes things 
like, day-by-day break-down, time of day and time spent by each "hit" 
on which feature of my site. Interested?? The Dolphin and the Peacock seem to be 
top favorites, but Toby is not far behind; he even has his own "file" 
and fan-mail . 
For the folks who wonder, Braybark Toby Tobias is my 
"sleeping partner" (when he is not digging the garden, he sleeps a 
lot). He is a 3-year old Old English Sheepdog, weighs about 7 stone 
and is very particular about the company I keep. He is the 3rd OES  
gracing (or grazing!) this household. At the moment he is the major 
contributory factor to me having reasonably warm feet.....
Kris - being the perfect English Gentleman - chose him as my "front" 
and protector in the wild jungle of the Internet. So it stayed. But 
anyone who has visited my WEB-Page "from cover to cover" has already 
met Toby. He is a total rascal. But then, so - probably - am I....

Sorry, have I gone on too long...?!

Stay Warm, stay healthy - don't get my dreadful cold !
and a Very Happy New Year to You All!!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sat Jan  4 15:58:22 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vgfyQ-0000oka; Sat, 4 Jan 97 15:57 PST
X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bbbrrrrr!  ... And Hark, all Beginners!
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 18:54:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan4.13547.0>
References: <<199701042218.WAA13591@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike Savad , and all
> 
> Yep, got electricity, managed to borrow electric heaters from kind
> neighbours, another neighbour also offered me a car-load of logs. Gas
> people coming next Thursday. So at least I haven't perished YET. But
> 220 people in Europe have! In Budapest tonight it was -20 degrees
> Celcius (spoke to my old friends there tonight).
> The pub in my village had frozen and burst pipes right through to the
> bar, so only iced water on offer, but no beer!!
> 
> Mike, I  had another look at your WEB-page yesterday. Looks great!
> Somehow the photography looked more crisp and better defined; the
> "fish-lamp" looked larger (or is that an illusion created by me
> getting a new pair of glasses since I last looked??) You know that I
> am a fan of your cars. I would have loved to see them bigger still.
> BTW, have you decided on a name for the "fish-lamp" yet??
> 
> I don't know if I have said this to you before, but I find your
> "Tips"-page very thoughtful and  one which  ought to be very helpful
> to our "BEGINNERS", without being patronizing. Well done on that
> score! I do feel I could recommend any "Beginner" anywhere to  to pay
> particular attention to this feature of your site.
> My own students learn lead technique first. I really make them sweat,
> teaching them the importance of accurate glass cutting. I don't allow
> electrical  grinders into my classes (initially) for 6 reasons;
> 1. Health and Safety regulations makes it very difficult
> 2. Grinding is no excuse for bad cutting
> 3. I want them to learn how to "plan" their glass usage from the very
> beginning, so that they have greater appreciation of it when they
> start doing "their own thing"
> 4. I want them to learn from the very start how important accurate
> measurements are, how important it is to pay attention to details and
> how to "look" (if that makes sense);
> 5. About 90 per cent of glass, lead, copper foil, tools and so on -
> regretably - is imported into the UK. It is therefore really quite
> expensive. When they first start out, they have idea about what glass
> is, how it is made, how much it costs and what really is involved in
> traditional creation of stained glass.
> 6. The Brits have never really been able to make their "mark"
> internationally as regards taste, design or colours. The traditional
> British "craftsmanship" has been so trivialized in the last 50 - 60
> years, that it has almost been forgotten. The political regime in
> this country has not exactly encouraged pride in British produced
> goods for the last 20 years, and certainly not  as regards British
> Arts or Crafts.
> When it comes to the point of the most prestigeous British Art Prize being awarded
> to some "cretin" who calls a rotting dead cow submerged into a
> transparent container of formaldehyde ART (The Turner Prize 1996!!),
> then I really do begin to  doubt the sanity of the Art World....
> I think I may be forgiven in turning my back on  so called pseudo-art
> and retreat back to basics....
> Hans Christian Andersen was a sage Dane; he wrote the fairy-tale of
> "The Emperor's New Clothes".  In my Viking simplicity,  I often feel
> like the little child who gets hushed up by all the so called
> grown-ups, when I shout "New Clothes!! What new clothes?? The Emperor
> is stark naked!! He hasn't got a stitch on!! Why can't you all see
> it?? You are ALL being cheated!!" .... But then I am just a child...
> I think there are probably many more reasons, but I better stop here,
> or I'll be here all night and bore the pants off some of you....
>  As most of us know, accurate glass cutting is even more critical when doing
> copper-foil projects. I don't do a lot of it myself "professionally",
> but because  it is another angle, another technique, and something my
> students want learn about, I need to learn, I need to know and I need
> to DO.  So people like yourself (and Len A., AND Howard) I feel very
> comfortable in acknowledging as "teachers" in aspects I myself lack
> sufficient knowledge about. Your "Tips"- page reflects this.
> That's what I call sharing. ( Which is why I have decided to post
> this to Group, rather than to you alone direct).
> I have been wondering whether you might agree to me including
> your site onto my own "links". If you chose to do likewise, is fine,
> but not necessary.
> 
> 40 - 60 hits a day is a lot - that's what I get a WEEK. The
> interesting thing is that Kris (my computer guru), provides me with a
> break-down of  where the hits are actually coming from (if I can find
> the time to go through them). This break-down even includes things
> like, day-by-day break-down, time of day and time spent by each "hit"
> on which feature of my site. Interested?? The Dolphin and the Peacock seem to be
> top favorites, but Toby is not far behind; he even has his own "file"
> and fan-mail .
> For the folks who wonder, Braybark Toby Tobias is my
> "sleeping partner" (when he is not digging the garden, he sleeps a
> lot). He is a 3-year old Old English Sheepdog, weighs about 7 stone
> and is very particular about the company I keep. He is the 3rd OES
> gracing (or grazing!) this household. At the moment he is the major
> contributory factor to me having reasonably warm feet.....
> Kris - being the perfect English Gentleman - chose him as my "front"
> and protector in the wild jungle of the Internet. So it stayed. But
> anyone who has visited my WEB-Page "from cover to cover" has already
> met Toby. He is a total rascal. But then, so - probably - am I....
> 
> Sorry, have I gone on too long...?!
> 
> Stay Warm, stay healthy - don't get my dreadful cold !
> and a Very Happy New Year to You All!!!
> Elisabeth 'n Toby


welp i have no problem with you putting my page up on yours. what i
deciced to do (when i get to it, that it), on my link list i'll put the
glass companies and other glass and tool related topics. along with that
i'm going to put up pages that are'nt comercial, but are more tip
related like mine. or pages that just look neat in my opinion.

the fish lamp i think i'm calling it Oceana, but it still does'nt have
that right ring to it. the same would probably look good as a panel or a
sculpture. maybe one of your nordic or viking (if that's not the same
thing that it) gods could work...providing other people would know hwo
i'm talking about, and of course as long as i can pronounce it ;). it
just looks like it's begging me to give it a 2 part name. either like
neptunes lamp (which i still don't like even tho i think i thought of
it, mainly it sounds kind of like Pavlov's dog). but for now it'll stay
up as oceana, until i can figure out a better name. 

nope the lamp is'nt any larger, besides sticking in the other side, i
enhanced some of the pieces in photoshop, to try and give them there
acual apearence. like that red thingy in the corners looked very gray,
so i had to redden it... well anyway if your wondering that is...if your
thinkink to yourself, why can he put capital letter's on his webpage,
but not in his e-mail? mainly it's because i'm using word for windows to
type out the main portion and it automatically capitalizes everything i
do. it also has a spell check, for those occasional typing bloopers.

the counter i've been using is at: http://www.fxweb.com/ i have an
invisble graphic that loads up and counts up all that stuff. i just have
to keep track of each day and subtract the amount from a week ago, and
it gives me a good estimate of how many people showed up. you see it's
an estimate, because if the graphic does'nt load the count does'nt
count.

soon i'll be uploading the acual tip pages. i just got done typing them
up, along with the adventures of mold making, and the history of my
shop. i also have a few more pages planned.

and for anyone intrested in the weather around here (westfield, nj, usa)
(upper east coast), it's been pretty warm. around 60 degrees lately
which is quite unusual. last year at this time we had over 2 1/2' which
also was'nt a usaul occurence. hopefully we won't have a nor' easter
like there pre-dicting for thursday.  if your wondering Elisabeth, we in
the states are hearing about your cold weather, so hey your world
famous. the one thing i'll never get is this, they say on the news about
how cold it is, people are dropping like flies, yet every single person
they show outside, has no hat, and there jacket is quite thin looking.
then they have the nerve to say "boy am i cold"...ahh whatever.

currently i guess i'm in typing mode, anyway although i'm not working on
anything now i am sketching out a bunch of new ideas that i may be
working on soon. some pretty neat things they are too.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jan  4 17:38:53 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Comments on Large Window
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 18:03:06 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan4.1136.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

I've been struggling with designing a rather large (for me) window of 
19" high by 65" wide to go over French doors in a dining room.  The 
people want an open look so have sketched out a semi-large rose for the 
middle (their choice) with "viney" stems off of which are smaller 
flowers (in yelow) and buds (in red and yellow).  They want the 
background to be artique (Yeah Spectrum!), yet want to work in some blue 
at the top as a sort of sky and some green shoots at the bottom as sort 
of a grassy look.  This all sounds so "sort of" doesn't it?  Anyway --
	What I'm having some struggles with is how to work in blue at 
the top, artique in the middle and green at the bottom with so little 
room to work in between the top and bottom.  Any suggestions on how to 
arrange the blue and the green?  Any ideas on what shades of blue and 
green, and what type of glass to use?  I've done quite a few of my own 
designs, but my real love is more in the traditional line like Victorian 
stuff.  The piece will be leaded and I've got some 1/2" zinc for the 
edges.  I have Glass Eye and am trying to lay out the  window, but it 
just isn't coming to be as to how to work in the blue and the green.
	Hope you can get warm, Elizabeth.  Keep Toby close.  And Mike 
Savad, Happy Holidays and I'll bet I hear from both of you (at least I 
hope I do), and I'm very anxious to hear from anyone with some thoughts 
about how to approach this situation.  If you want snail mail address, 
it is:  T. Taylor, 2343 Meridian Rd., Victor MT 59875.
	And we've had record snow fall from Christmas Eve until Dec. 30 
(44" of the white stuff) and I'm sick of shoveling, glad the Holidays 
are over and am ready to dive into stained glass.  How 'bout you?  T. in 
Montana
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jan  4 18:29:57 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Comments on Large Window
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:25:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan4.162543.0>
References: <<1997Jan4.1136.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Phil Taylor wrote:
> 
> I've been struggling with designing a rather large (for me) window of
> 19" high by 65" wide to go over French doors in a dining room.  The
> people want an open look so have sketched out a semi-large rose for the
> middle (their choice) with "viney" stems off of which are smaller
> flowers (in yelow) and buds (in red and yellow).  They want the
> background to be artique (Yeah Spectrum!), yet want to work in some blue
> at the top as a sort of sky and some green shoots at the bottom as sort
> of a grassy look.  This all sounds so "sort of" doesn't it?  Anyway --
>         What I'm having some struggles with is how to work in blue at
> the top, artique in the middle and green at the bottom with so little
> room to work in between the top and bottom.  Any suggestions on how to
> arrange the blue and the green?  Any ideas on what shades of blue and
> green, and what type of glass to use?  I've done quite a few of my own
> designs, but my real love is more in the traditional line like Victorian
> stuff.  The piece will be leaded and I've got some 1/2" zinc for the
> edges.  I have Glass Eye and am trying to lay out the  window, but it
> just isn't coming to be as to how to work in the blue and the green.
>         Hope you can get warm, Elizabeth.  Keep Toby close.  And Mike
> Savad, Happy Holidays and I'll bet I hear from both of you (at least I
> hope I do), and I'm very anxious to hear from anyone with some thoughts
> about how to approach this situation.  If you want snail mail address,
> it is:  T. Taylor, 2343 Meridian Rd., Victor MT 59875.
>         And we've had record snow fall from Christmas Eve until Dec. 30
> (44" of the white stuff) and I'm sick of shoveling, glad the Holidays
> are over and am ready to dive into stained glass.  How 'bout you?  T. in
> Montana
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well a few thoughts come to mind;

1. depending on what side will be viewed, if you were to have an all
clear background (for the texture), and then put your colors under it
(plating like tiffany), that could be one way.

2. you can go all semi antique, and get a light blue, lt green, and
clear. but that would give it a colored in look, and not a blended look.
if you do choose this method, i would'nt use artique because it is'nt as
crystaline as real semi-antique. 

3. you could go with a armstrong wispy the kind that is fairly faint,
with alot of clear mix into it, it should blend with artique yet still
look like the color chosen. 

4. or maybe you can convince them to use a stipple glass (yougogheny)
and do a stipple blend. instead of having clear in the middle use white,
then blend in the green at the bottom and the blue at the top. and of
course depending on time, money, etc, give the roses some definition by
adding a little red or yellow hear and there. at the end you could have
a "tiffany'esk" window, and have plenty of scrap to play with at the
end.

5. i suppose there is always paint on glazes.

6. or sand blasted flash glass with an etched white background, but
that's getting a little fancy. unless of course you have the equipment
that is. 

chances are artique may not work here unless it's either used by it
self, or spectrum coms out with the colors you need overnight. i would
try to convince them of another choice that would work, with the glass
you either have or can get. my guess is, is that they probably saw
artique or the like and may not know of the other possibilities.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
----
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From owner-glass Sun Jan  5 09:57:33 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vgwor-0000Zua; Sun, 5 Jan 97 09:57 PST
X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642
From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Software reviews in!
Date: 05 Jan 97 12:56:16 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan5.175616.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Thanks again to all of you here on bungi.com who offered to help out with the
software reviews.  pj friend did a bang-up job on them and they'll be published
in the next issue of Common Ground: Glass, as well as on the Guild's web site.

If you'd like a "sneak preview" of the reviews, they're accessible by pointing
your browser at

   http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/designer.htm

for the review of American Bevel's "Designer"  or at

   http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/dragon.htm

for the review of Dragonfly Software's "The Glass Eye."

They'll be there for a week or so for you bungi.com participants (nobody else
knows about those URLs), then they'll be taken down and saved for the eventual
release of the entire newsletter online in a few months.

Albert
                __________________________________________
                Albert Lewis            Executive Director
                International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
                __________________________________________
                     http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/

----
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From owner-glass Sun Jan  5 09:59:11 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642
From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM>
To: BlindCopyReceiver:;@compuserve,.com
Subject: IGGA Online MEMO 1/5/97
Date: 05 Jan 97 12:46:21 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan5.174621.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


IGGA Online News Memo                             January 5, 1997
_________________________________________________________________
        A hypertext version of this memo can be found at
                http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
_________________________________________________________________

Glass workers
and eye protection

The  latest   ACTS  FACTS   newsletter  (January  1997)  contains
information you  should be  aware of. With the kind permission of
Monona Rossol, its editor, we pass it on to you:
_________________________________________________________________

         Radiation Hazards For Ceramic And Glass Workers
_________________________________________________________________

Substances  heated  until  they  "glow"  emit  ultraviolet  (UV),
visible, and  infrared (IR)  radiation.  Welding produces more UV
than other  types of  rays. In  glass and ceramic work, IR is the
major hazard.


      REGIONS OF THE OPTICAL RADIATION SPECTRUM
_________________________________________________________
                              Wavelength Range
        Region                in nanometers (nm)
_________________________________________________________

     Ultraviolet (UV)         100 to 380-400
        UV-C                  100 to 280
        UV-B                  280 to 315-320
        UV-A                  315-320 to 380-400
     Visible (light)          380-400 to 760-780
        blue light            400-500
        yellow (sodium flare) 588-590
     Infrared (IR)            760-780 to 10,000
        IR-A                  760-780 to 1400
        IR-B                  1400 to 3000
        IR-C                  3000 to 10,000
_________________________________________________________


IR can be thought of as waves of energy that heat substances that
absorb them.  If IR  heats the skin, we feel pain and can protect
ourselves. If  the rays enter the eye, however, we sense no pain.
Damage results  from the heat or the "fever" sustained by various
structures in the eye.

Heat damage  to the  retina from  IR is well known. Damage to the
lens resulting  in cataract  also has  been reported but there is
some disagreement  about how likely this is to occur. IR can also
cause burns  of the  cornea and  eyelids and can dry the eyes and
skin.

Visible  radiation   also  can  damage  the  retina.  Ultraviolet
radiation  can   "sunburn"  the   skin  and   eyelids  and  cause
conjunctivitis and lesions on the cornea (photo keratitis).

To protect worker's eyes, the American Conference of Governmental
Industrial Hygienists  (ACGIH) set  separate standards (Threshold
Limit Values or TLVs) to limit irradiance in the ranges:

  * 400-1400 nm, to limit thermal injury to the retina
  * 400-700 nm, to limit photochemical injury to the retina
  * 770-3000 nm, to limit possible effects on the lens and cornea

The National  Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)
did two  studies* of  radiation emitted  by  glass  furnaces  and
torches. Both  show that some workers are exposed to IR radiation
over the  TLV from furnaces and glory holes. NIOSH recommends the
use of welding shades #3 and #4 for protection. The study done at
Glass Schell in Houston, Texas, says further that:

   "It should  be noted  that there  are other  types  of  eye
   protectors ... for glass workers to use. The owner of Glass
   Schell loaned  the NIOSH  investigators  several  of  these
   different  eye   protectors  to  determine  their  spectral
   transmittance levels. ... While it was determined that most
   of the  eyewear would be satisfactory for use with the type
   of  emissions   found  at  the  facility  on  the  days  of
   measurements, there were several eyewear devices which gave
   better protection  than others.  In general,  those eyewear
   devices that  eliminated the UV, blue light, and the sodium
   flare wave-lengths  while  minimizing  the  IR  wavelengths
   would obviously warrant more consideration for occupational
   use."

This means  if you  want to  follow NIOSH's advice precisely, you
should use  #3 or #4 welding shade lenses. If you want instead to
try other  eyewear, ask  the seller for the transmission spectrum
of the  lenses from  a reputable  laboratory over a range of 0 to
3500 nm.  Buy lenses  with low  transmittance in  the UV (100-400
nm), blue  (400-500 nm), yellow (588-590 nm) and IR (760-3500 nm)
ranges.

*  Single free copies of the two NIOSH studies can be obtained by
calling 800/356-4674.   Ask for:

1. Health Hazard Evaluation of Glass Schell Fused Glass Masks,
   Houston TX. NIOSH publication: HETA 95-0119-2554

2. Health Hazard Evaluation of Louis Glass Factory, Weston, WV,
   NIOSH  publication: HETA 88-299-2028


You can subscribe to ACTS FACTS, if you like.  It's published by
Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety (ACTS), 181 Thompson Street #23,
New York NY 10012-2586. Subscriptions are US$15/year in the U.S.;
in Canada and Mexico, add US$2/year; in other countries, add US$6
_________________________________________________________________
Our Mission: To facilitate communication among glass artists, to
  encourage education and promote excellence in the glass arts.
           __________________________________________
           International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
           Tonetta Lake Road  ***   Brewster NY 10509
           (914) 278-2152 [msg]   Fax: (914) 278-2481
           __________________________________________
           Web site: http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/
              Membership info: bksmith@juno.com

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From owner-glass Sun Jan  5 14:02:04 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com (Don A DeVoto)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 19:05:16 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan4.0516.0>
References: <<199701031956.LAA19427@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi; I have been reading all the stuff about tacky wax and I just turn my
mold upside down and put boiling water in it and wait a few minutes . The
wax releases the glass and all you have to do is clean the wax from the
inside of your lamp before soldering the inside.I have been doing this
for 17 years last 8 at the St. Louis Stained Glass Studio in Ballwin Mo. 
                                                                         
                                                Good luck eldondo.
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From owner-glass Sun Jan  5 15:56:49 1997
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Comments on Large Window
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 00:18:41 +0000
Message-ID: <199701052356.XAA31799@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi T. (Taylor) in Montana,

<I've been struggling with designing a rather large (for me) window of 
19" high by 65" wide to go over French doors in a dining room.>
Yes, that is a fair-sized panel and can be rather daunting; !almost 
2 ft tall and about 5 ft  4 inches wide.
Already at design stage you should plan for re-inforcement bars at 
about every 20 - 24 inches.  Because of the static, internal location 
of the panel, you should be able to use "strong-line" steel, which 
are easier to bend round the design inside the lead. But mark up 
their approximate location already now on your drawing.
 
 <The people want an open look >
By that I presume you mean no grids, trellis type back-ground and no 
borders?? Just rose and background glass?

< so have sketched out a semi-large rose for the 
middle (their choice) with "viney" stems off of which are smaller 
flowers (in yelow) and buds (in red and yellow).>
With that sort of space, I would have gone for 2-3  "semi-large" 
roses as a focal point and then  plan side-ways, to creat a kind 
of stylized, simplified "rambling rose" bush. Forget about planning 
from top to bottom. Plan LATERALLY and top & bottom will "fill 
itself" quite naturally.
If you have chosen red and yellow, then  vary the hues within the 
same rose and mix in some peach-colours into all of them (again in 
different hues. Excaggerate the green buds .

< They want the background to be artique (Yeah Spectrum!), yet want to work in some blue 
at the top as a sort of sky and some green shoots at the bottom as sort 
of a grassy look. >
Hhmmmm.... Given that the panel is long sideways and narrow in 
height, I would forget about trying to work in three different 
background colours and stick with just one. It will look too "busy" 
otherwhise and only confuse the unity of the panel. To me it would 
look as if you didn't have enough glass of either one or the other, 
but made do with bits & pieces from scrap boxes. Whatever colour/s 
you choose, they should be the palest of pale. Trying to pretend that 
there is a sky or grass, would - in a way - almost trivialize the 
statement of the rose creation itself. Because they are in themselves 
strong colours (as are the green of the leaves of course - and again- 
use different hues of greens even within the same leaf), so you need 
to back-up your design and hold it together with the simplest, palest and 
most delicate back-ground possible . How about Armstrong very faint 
wispy, with mainly clear. That way you might be able to work in a 
small section of blue. As for the bottom, I would just do more and 
larger green buds.

<	What I'm having some struggles with is how to work in blue at 
the top, artique in the middle and green at the bottom with so little 
room to work in between the top and bottom.  Any suggestions on how to 
arrange the blue and the green?  Any ideas on what shades of blue and 
green, and what type of glass to use?  I've done quite a few of my own 
designs, but my real love is more in the traditional line like Victorian 
stuff.  The piece will be leaded and I've got some 1/2" zinc for the 
edges.  I have Glass Eye and am trying to lay out the  window, but it 
just isn't coming to be as to how to work in the blue and the green.>

 Part of what I said above applies. Size the entire panel up on 
proper paper first and ink in your edges. Reserve a big circle in the 
middle for the focal point. Then play around by drawing Art Nouveau 
curves & swirls sideways. Keep on playing until the whole thing 
starts to suggest a shape from which you can then start creating your roses, 
buds and leaves. ( Alicia Larson's book Design Secrets might help 
you quite well). Then see what GlassEye can do further.
One final thing,  Are you using different sized lead?? I would 
suggest you to use, e.g. 1/2" round for stems etc, 1/4" round for big 
& medium sized roses (and for where you use "strong-line"), 3/16" 
round for buds and unavoidable non-design lead lines.

Has this been of any help to you?? Even if my thoughts & suggestions 
are inappropriate, I hope you will have found a couple of crumbs that 
ARE of some use.
Will now go and see what Mike (Savad) replied to you. I deliberately 
didn't check first, other than to register the fact he "beat me to 
it", yet again!!!
	
<Hope you can get warm, Elizabeth.  Keep Toby close.  And Mike 
Savad, Happy Holidays and I'll bet I hear from both of you .>

Yep, you have now!
I have had the most charming offers of electric heaters being sent to 
me all the way from USA!!!
What can I say!! That rascal Toby is right here!!! Ain't nothing as 
warm as wool and fur!!!
Yea, and WHEN will these crazy people learn to dress appropriately 
for the weather. I have blessed my old dad for his arctic gloves many 
times this winter. They ain't pretty, but they do keep my hands warm 
as toast.
Keep us posted how you get on with the panel, BTW, I hope you have 
quoted properly for this panel and not sold yourself short.
Best Wishes
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan  6 18:40:11 1997
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Software reviews in! Dragonfly
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 03:01:42 +0000
Message-ID: <199701070239.CAA11240@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Albert; PJ  & Paul Friend ( and all))

Thanks for the tip Albert, visited the review by Pj Friend, which I 
thought was fair , objective and accurate, bar 2 points.

1. They DO in fact have a Windows 3.1 and Windows 3.11 version. It's 
the very one I myself have installed in my machine.
What happened was this; They started off by developing a 3.1 version 
but "put it in a drawer" (without a manual) when Windows 95 was launched.
 They didn't think there would be a demand for anything else other than W.95 In 
April/May last year Dragonfly and I "connected up"; they sent me the 
W.3.1 version with the W.95 MANUAL and asked me to evaluate the 
programme itself and track down the differences between programme 
W.3.1 and manual W.95. They also asked a number of other people to 
exactly the same . They have collected all the information together 
and I dare say that they will shortly complete the W3.1/3.11 manual 
to go with the 3.1/3.11 programme that I already have in my computer.

2. I am surprised that PJ Friend experienced delays in forthcoming  
replies from Dragonfly. My experience has been the opposite. It is 
usually ME that owes THEM a reply. They have bee so quick that I 
haven't had time to draw breath. Could it possibly have been 
Christmas rush? I do know that their programme has received a lot of 
attention since last August. That attention has been favourable - and 
rightly so. I know that the criticism has been about the image 
format, but that I think will be resolved.
Personally, I myself am not too bothered about the colour facilities; 
marginally useful if you want to give a customer some sort of vague colour 
idea & definitions. I try to avoid getting too specific about colour 
hues with my customers; it's one area I'd like to keep as "my 
surprise".

I was a total beginner as regards CAD and any form of complicated 
computer operations this time last year. I must have driven Michael 
Wilks mad many times with my totally "nerd" questions. He was always 
there within 30 minutes to help, to guide and to inform. He still is, 
as I have left him waiting over Christmas for a reply.(He will 
hopefully  be pleased with my discovery). 
 I don't see Glass Eye as a replacement for anything I do, but as an 
addition. From what I have heard, seen and read about various other 
CAD programmes (including various versions of Corel), I believe that Glass Eye 
is the one excellently suited for 
stained glass, even though I am probably "too long in the tooth" (read: old) to ever 
abandon paper and pencil altogether.
My tuppence worth.....
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan  6 19:12:40 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!fstryczek
From: fstryczek@juno.com (Frank M. Stryczek, Jr.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: wax
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 22:04:11 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan7.3411.0>
References: <<199701030614.WAA23465@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Howard:

The Wisteria/Laburnum by Odyessey does not have any metal branches, only
glass branches included in the design.  I plan to afix the cap in the
normal way suggested in the instructions.  

In previous lamps, I have used a large box filled with styrofoam
"peanuts" as a bed to rest the lamp and keep it level for soldering. 
This has worked prety well for me so far, and because of the large and
awkward shape of this lamp, I was planning to use the same method.  The
"peanuts" are quite gentle on the glass.  

Most of the glass in my lamp is Youghiougheny Stipple and Bullseye for
the leaves, stems, and flower pedals. The background pieces have given me
a lot of trouble, and I've gone through a number of types before finding
just the right one.   I've finally used Uroboros #1135 for the background
pieces (on the advice of Paul Crist) and it looks great, if I must say so
myself.  

Thanks for your continuing encouragement and suggestions.

Sincerely,

Frank Stryczek, Jr.


On Thu, 02 Jan 97 22:12:24 -0500 Elaine & Howard Rubin
<weaver51@teleport.com> writes:
>-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
>Frank, a few more questions.....How have you, or will you affix the 
>crown
>and branches to the form?
>
>Do you have a lamp leveler (Worden 330)....
>
>My advice for using an oil based flux was to minimize the oxidation on 
>the
>foil of a long project. I use glasstar water based flux and used 
>sparingly,
>the oxidation is kept to a minimum.  The flux rarely sputters, 
>especially if
>you do not go back and forth trapping it under the solder.
>
>I am glad you have done the "light table" viewing.
>
>
>What glass(s) have you used for the wisteria.
>
>An unabashed plug....I can have a leveler dropped shipped to you from 
>any of
>my wholesalers if you do not have one.....WELL woth using!!!!
>
>more if you ask
>--
>New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
>                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         
>
>E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Mon Jan  6 19:18:49 1997
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X-Path: primeline.com!vgplugs
From: April Paine <vgplugs@primeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass eye review
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 22:22:08 PST
Message-ID: <1997Jan7.6228.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>2. I am surprised that PJ Friend experienced delays in forthcoming  
>replies from Dragonfly. My experience has been the opposite. It is 
>usually ME that owes THEM a reply. They have bee so quick that I 
>haven't had time to draw breath. Could it possibly have been 
>Christmas rush? I do know that their programme has received a lot of 
>attention since last August. That attention has been favourable - and 

Wow this is surprising. He is very prompt with any posts I've sent or
explained that he would be away and there may be a delay. I love
my program and I still haven't sent for the update!





April (zone 6)
vgplugs@primeline.com
Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass






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From owner-glass Mon Jan  6 19:35:04 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!fstryczek
From: fstryczek@juno.com (Frank M. Stryczek, Jr.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 22:04:10 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan7.3410.0>
References: <<199701031956.LAA19427@kim.teleport.com>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Don:
This method sounds interesting.  While I understand that the mold
provides a degree of insulation between the hot water and the glass, I
was wondering if the shock of boiling water being poured into the mold
cracks any of the glass pieces?  My lamp has some prety small pieces, and
I would not want to have to replace them if possible. Please advise.  

Thanks,
FStryczek@juno.com


On Fri, 03 Jan 1997 19:05:16 EST eldondo1@juno.com (Don A DeVoto) writes:
>Hi; I have been reading all the stuff about tacky wax and I just turn 
>my
>mold upside down and put boiling water in it and wait a few minutes . 
>The
>wax releases the glass and all you have to do is clean the wax from 
>the
>inside of your lamp before soldering the inside.I have been doing this
>for 17 years last 8 at the St. Louis Stained Glass Studio in Ballwin 
>Mo. 
>                                                                       
>  
>                                                Good luck eldondo.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Mon Jan  6 22:09:11 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!Nagyp
From: Nagyp@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: hi
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 01:08:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan6.20845.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

is there a news group?
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From owner-glass Mon Jan  6 22:28:21 1997
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From: mcFrenzy <pristine@gr.cns.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: hi
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:27:17 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan6.172717.0>
References: <<1997Jan6.20845.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Nagyp@aol.com wrote:
> 
> is there a news group?

try rec.crafts.glass for more stained glass discussions.
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From owner-glass Tue Jan  7 07:24:43 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 10:20:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan7.52030.0>
References: <<1997Jan7.3410.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Frank M. Stryczek, Jr. wrote:
> 
> Dear Don:
> This method sounds interesting.  While I understand that the mold
> provides a degree of insulation between the hot water and the glass, I
> was wondering if the shock of boiling water being poured into the mold
> cracks any of the glass pieces?  My lamp has some prety small pieces, and
> I would not want to have to replace them if possible. Please advise.
> 
> Thanks,
> FStryczek@juno.com
> 
> On Fri, 03 Jan 1997 19:05:16 EST eldondo1@juno.com (Don A DeVoto) writes:
> >Hi; I have been reading all the stuff about tacky wax and I just turn
> >my
> >mold upside down and put boiling water in it and wait a few minutes .
> >The
> >wax releases the glass and all you have to do is clean the wax from
> >the
> >inside of your lamp before soldering the inside.I have been doing this
> >for 17 years last 8 at the St. Louis Stained Glass Studio in Ballwin
> >Mo.
> >
> >
> >                                                Good luck eldondo.
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

welp my guess would be that the little pieces probably would'nt
break...less heat vibration do to it's size?...also i would say that
since the mold is getting the impact first the water may not be hot
enough to break any glass. kind  of like filling a cast iron or plastic
sink with hot water, then feeling the underside. the wax should melt and
then the lamp should just pop off. it really should'nt be any more
harmfull then soldering, unless of course you miss and pour the water on
your leg or something. :)

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
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From owner-glass Tue Jan  7 18:55:19 1997
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From: "Nelda Ridlen" <nelda@mychoice.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Mailing list
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:54:44 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan8.145444.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I would like to be on your mailing list for stained glass.
Thank you,
Nelda Ridlen
909 Rix Drive
Marion, Illinois 62959
nelda@mychoice.net
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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 01:11:45 1997
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	id m0vhu2i-0000zca; Wed, 8 Jan 97 01:11 PST
X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lamp leveler
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:11:39 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <9701080911.AA11628@crosfield.co.uk>
References: <<1997Jan5.04744.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> I have to ask- what is a lamp leveler and how do they work? I've never
> been exposed to one. TIA
> Larry from Oz


It's basically a stand with a tilt-and-swivel head, and a threaded rod.
basically, you attach the lamp form to it (fix a plywood disc near the
bottom, which supports the base of the lamp form from the inside, drill a
hole in the top of the form, thread it over the rod, then fix it on with a
nut), and you can then rotate/tilt the form so that the bit you're working
on is level - which sounds as though it should make things *much* easier
when you're soldering the pieces together :-).

If I recall correctly, Worden do two models - a freestanding one, and one
designed to be permanently attached to a workbench.

-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 04:30:37 1997
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X-Path: ipa.net!baer0701
From: baer0701@ipa.net (Brian Baer)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Chemistry
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 06:30:10 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199701081230.GAA29148@dogbert.ipa.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am interested in learning all about glass chemistry.  What metals are
placed in the glass at certain temps to give certain colors...what additives
can impart strength properties, etc.  Please either send information or
reliable sources.
Thank you
Brian Baer
baer0701@ipa.net

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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 06:46:44 1997
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	id m0vhzGj-0000j5a; Wed, 8 Jan 97 06:46 PST
X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Chemistry
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:08:24 +0000
Message-ID: <199701081446.OAA13407@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Brian Baer wrote:

I am interested in learning all about glass chemistry.  What metals are
placed in the glass at certain temps to give certain colors...what additives
can impart strength properties, etc.  Please either send information or
reliable sources.
Thank you
Brian Baer
baer0701@ipa.net

For a quite detailed historical treatise about glass making, try
"On Divers Arts" by Theophilus (a Latin guy and originally written in 
Latin, but  translated into English) publ. Dover Publications Inc, 
New York, ISBN 0-486-23784-2; Library of Congress Catalog Card No. 
78-74298 (A very interesting "read"!!)
For modern sources, could give you quite a few others, but mostly 
of/in UK origins. Give a PR-orientated glass manufacturer near you a 
ring and ask them point blank what they have or could recommend....
my tuppence worth.
Elisabeth 'n Toby 

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 08:16:02 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Chemistry
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 11:11:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan8.61140.0>
References: <<199701081230.GAA29148@dogbert.ipa.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Brian Baer wrote:
> 
> I am interested in learning all about glass chemistry.  What metals are
> placed in the glass at certain temps to give certain colors...what additives
> can impart strength properties, etc.  Please either send information or
> reliable sources.
> Thank you
> Brian Baer
> baer0701@ipa.net
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i really don't know much more detail than that...sorry.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 08:43:25 1997
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	id m0vi15Q-0000e7a; Wed, 8 Jan 97 08:42 PST
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Glass Chemistry
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:44:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan8.64437.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Thanks Mike

I always enjoy your pages.

Linda Campbell

Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
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`
end

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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 08:48:39 1997
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	id m0vi1An-0000nZa; Wed, 8 Jan 97 08:48 PST
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Prarie Lamp
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:50:13 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan8.65013.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Still new to sg but I think I can handle it. A fellow co-worker wants to 
commission me to make him a Prarie lampshade "just like to one in the 
Delphi catalog". He's going to buy or build the base.

Question is, is there any thing peculiar I need to know about these lamp 
shades? Has anyone made one. I'll order Delphi's pattern of course but is 
the shade just sitting on the double column base. If so what is the 
significance of the brass top to the shade? Just decoration?

Thanks,
Linda Campbell
 Suffolk, Virginia

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`
end

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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 11:13:33 1997
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	id m0vi3Qv-0000o7a; Wed, 8 Jan 97 11:13 PST
X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: lamp leveler
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 11:10:05 -0500
Message-ID: <199701081912.LAA19011@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --


Certainly worth owning if you do lamps.....Tools that allow you to work
better and more quickly add enjoyment to the process.
I cannot fathom how I ever was able to get along without for the first 6
years or so.....
I can quote a price and have one shipped directly to you from any of my
wholesalers.....email me personally if interested............H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 15:14:26 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Chemistry
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 18:09:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan8.13925.0>
References: <<1997Jan8.64437.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Thanks Mike
> 
> I always enjoy your pages.
> 
> Linda Campbell
> 
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
>                    Name: WINMAIL.DAT
>     Part 1.2       Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>                Encoding: x-uuencode
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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you know what that last message was...well he wrote to me asking the
same question, then when i saw it the second time i thought he was just
rephrasing my answer to him. then i saw it was bungi..and well oopsy.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 16:48:09 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: gte.net!hinckley
From: Michael Hinckley <hinckley@gte.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: glass polishing equipment
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 19:46:52 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan8.144652.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello,

I'd appreciate any comments about equipment for 
grinding/sanding/polishing glass, basically bringing it to a 
high gloss. We're working with fused glass bowls, and the 
side in contact with the mold is rough. Any suggestions.

Thanks

Mike
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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 17:22:22 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass polishing equipment
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 20:16:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan8.151648.0>
References: <<1997Jan8.144652.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Michael Hinckley wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'd appreciate any comments about equipment for
> grinding/sanding/polishing glass, basically bringing it to a
> high gloss. We're working with fused glass bowls, and the
> side in contact with the mold is rough. Any suggestions.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

the first thing that comes to mind is beveling equipment, but that's
kind of expensive. maybe there's a way to set up the bowl upside down to
fire that side. or if you remake the mold (though you can only make it
one at a time) try making a mold from Hydrocal. it comes out very
smooth, and when you slump into it it does'nt leave one mark on the
glass! i used this method when i made the rear windshield for the blue
antique car on my page. you can only use once because it tends to fall
apart after 1 firing, you might be able to get 2. there's another high
temp plaster out called Crystopolite (sp?) i think it's a dental
plaster, never tried it though. i suppose there's fire polishing, though
i'm not sure. 

i'm not sure where the rough part is, you may have to get the buffing
wheel type polisher if you do choose bevel equipment.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 18:01:56 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vi9oD-0000k3a; Wed, 8 Jan 97 18:01 PST
X-Path: arn.net!loveta
From: "Loveta Elmore" <loveta@arn.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: glass polishing equipment
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:01:55 -0600
Message-ID: <199701090200.UAA20069@arnet.arn.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You don't need equipment to correct the gloss look.  There are several
products available for that.  You can also use a mixture of plain old
Borax.

----------
> From: Michael Hinckley <hinckley@gte.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: glass polishing equipment
> Date: Wednesday, January 08, 1997 6:46 PM
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'd appreciate any comments about equipment for 
> grinding/sanding/polishing glass, basically bringing it to a 
> high gloss. We're working with fused glass bowls, and the 
> side in contact with the mold is rough. Any suggestions.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 19:30:21 1997
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3
From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha )
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass polishing equipment
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:29:40 -0800
Message-ID: <199701090329.TAA28216@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You wrote: 
>
>Hello,
>
>I'd appreciate any comments about equipment for 
>grinding/sanding/polishing glass, basically bringing it to a 
>high gloss. We're working with fused glass bowls, and the 
>side in contact with the mold is rough. Any suggestions.
>
>Thanks
>
>Mike
>----
>
Probably one of the cheepest solutions would be to buy a 3 x 21 belt 
sander and purchase a series of wet/dry belts starting at 50 grit and 
working up to 600 grit with a finishing belt of cork. Ask your belt 
supplier for suggestions as to the minimum between steps. I would 
suggest the following: 50, 80, 120, 180, 220, 320, 400, 600, cork.
 
If you plan to do a lot of this an upright belt sander would be a good 
investment ( with a water feed even better.) In any case you will have 
to keep the belts wet (with water) If using a hand sander fill a gal 
jug with water, poke a hole in the base with a nail and set it next to 
your work. You can regulate the flow of water by loosening or 
tightening the cap.
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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 22:03:55 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass polishing equipment
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:03:03 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan8.2033.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have a buffer but don't use it to remove the roughness produced by molds.
 Buffer runs a little over $200 and doesn't need water.  

If you are getting excessive roughness, it could be the way you are applying
kiln wash to the molds.  Try using a spray gun to get very smooth
applications. Barbara
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From owner-glass Wed Jan  8 22:28:35 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Chemistry
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:28:02 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan8.20282.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike - what was your answer?  It never came through.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 00:11:38 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: glass polishing equipment
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 03:11:01 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan8.22111.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

There is a product called "Back Magic"  4 oz runs around $6.  You apply it
after final slumping to add shine, glossiness and smooth appearance.  Won't
remove texture since it's only fired to 975 degrees but makes things look
better.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 06:01:44 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Chemistry
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 08:57:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan9.35711.0>
References: <<1997Jan8.20282.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Mike - what was your answer?  It never came through.  Barbara
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

umm idunno i dont remember the question...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 07:03:37 1997
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	id m0viM0f-0000d7a; Thu, 9 Jan 97 07:03 PST
X-Path: digital.net!dti
From: Jennifer Daniels <dti@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Prarie Lamp
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:03:02 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199701091503.KAA24190@digital.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Linda,

I've forwarded your question on to Delphi.  Their e-mail address is
delphigl@voyager.net.  Their web site http://www.delphiglass.com has just
been moved to a new server and is lightning fast on my computer.  Check it
out.  Also, Art Glass World has just been moved to a new server and has a
new look.  Visit and tell us what you think, http://www.artglassworld.com.
Thanks.

Jennifer

At 11:50 AM 1/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Still new to sg but I think I can handle it. A fellow co-worker wants to 
>commission me to make him a Prarie lampshade "just like to one in the 
>Delphi catalog". He's going to buy or build the base.
>
>Question is, is there any thing peculiar I need to know about these lamp 
>shades? Has anyone made one. I'll order Delphi's pattern of course but is 
>the shade just sitting on the double column base. If so what is the 
>significance of the brass top to the shade? Just decoration?
>
>Thanks,
>Linda Campbell
> Suffolk, Virginia
>
>begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
>M>)\^(@X0`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0`
>M`@````(``@`!!) &``@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/
>M`0```#T`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC
>M;VT`4TU44 !G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT`````'@`", $````%````4TU44 ``
>M```>``,P`0```! ```!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT``P`5# $````#`/X/!@``
>M`!X``3 !````$@```"=G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VTG`````@$+, $````5````
>M4TU44#I'3$%34T!"54Y'22Y#3TT``````P``.0`````+`$ Z`0````(!]@\!
>M````! ````````-\*P$(@ <`& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E
>M`#$(`02 `0`,````4')A<FEE($QA;7 `#00!!8 #``X```#-!P$`" `+`#(`
>M#0`#`"H!`2" `P`.````S0<!``@`"P`L`"T``P!$`0$)@ $`(0```#0X-3)%
>M,CDV,C<V.40P,3%"0D4P,#!$1# Q,34Y-4,X`/@&`0.0!@"H`P``$@````L`
>M(P```````P`F```````+`"D```````,`-@``````0 `Y``!@.02$_;L!'@!P
>M``$````,````4')A<FEE($QA;7 ``@%Q``$````6`````;O]A 0YEN)226DG
>M$="[X #=`165R ``'@`># $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!(```!L
>M8V)E;&Q ;65M86-H+F-O;0````,`!A#),[FM`P`'$)H!```>``@0`0```&4`
>M``!35$E,3$Y%5U1/4T="551)5$A)3DM)0T%.2$%.1$Q%251!1D5,3$]70T\M
>M5T]22T525T%.5%-43T-/34U)4U-)3TY-151/34%+14A)34%04D%2245,04U0
>M4TA!1$4B2E535$Q)``````(!"1 !````/@(``#H"```5`P``3%I&=6U]]:'_
>M``H!#P(5`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D"`&-H"L!S970R-P8`!L,"@S(#Q0(`<')"<1'B
>M<W1E;0*#,W<"Y <3`H!]"H (SPG9._$6#S(U-0* "H$-L0M@X&YG,3 S%% +
>M"A11;0OR8P! !@!T`Q #(&X!!]%T;R!S9R!BJG4%0$D;@&@+@&L<(09C`Y$1
>M@&YD;&4@B&ET+A2P(&9E&R"F;P?@!: M=P6P:P20="!W`'!T!" ;D06@;>IM
>M! %I`B @!X ;@@# !QZP'0`'<"!A(%!RBPK ") @"V!M<',1@&$-L" B:G43
>MP"&@:7\@L1N1`B =80.@'% =8$0]'?!P'& <P0&0%:!G(I$=H$AE)P0@9V\+
>M@/<;T!N1&_!Y(R %P!OP`Q#R9".38F$1L!V@"H4*A=Y1"E 3P!_R! `L**$C
>MDKL6$"$0;B7P'%(;T' %D'YU(K *P1PP&U )@!N":_YN'B$!H A@!4 CH1&P
>M(:/S&[ B`G,_). F\"ER(S+/`, B(2,Q':!))QLA!; _!($CU241"K "0 22
>M;V:_'D$(<"PQ&_(H]"RD(")CWP"0`D E8B !(Z)D"& "8+,=8!6!=6T#H";D
>M23!0FG,;H'<1@#$(:6<#`/1F:1S18RX1,% FHR%0OP01&Y LD!N1,5<M$$HB
>M<E<%@R1@'_$_)TQ4'1%KJRC!"H5,"X!D(2!#(<%N8AWQ"H4&`'4-T ;P:^$H
>MT%9I<F<+@ <P"H4%%3$`/D ```,`$! ``````P`1$ ````! ``<P(-4A08/]
>@NP% ``@P(-4A08/]NP$>`#T``0````$`````````=_D`
>`
>end
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 07:29:36 1997
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bbbrrrrr!   and UK "Links"
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 15:50:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199701091529.PAA08179@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike (Savad) and everybody else,

4 inches of snow, but my boiler now repaired (HOORRAYY!!); now 
fighting off a secondary cold .
Mike,I have you now on my Links-page.
Mike Peck experienced some problems  getting into Links from other 
pages than my Front Home page (He is using Netscape 3). My Computer 
Guru tells me that often when Netscape 3 comes across a complication, 
it choses to crash rather than dealing with it. Mike Peck found no problem 
when accessing from Home Page itself. Perhaps worth bearing in 
mind...

Will have a look at your "Tips"-page later tonight
Have you seen my St.Francis panels yet?? Latest to the addition, more 
to be added during the year.

A tip, specially aimed at YOU GUYS joining me here in UK for the 
CHARTRES TRIP if you are interested in local/regional UK history to 
bone up on, before you arrive; the county where I live has very 
recently launched their own web-site. It's full of fascinating 
information and descriptions of many of the little villages, 
including my own and many neighbouring ones. You can access it 
through my own web-site, as I have a link to it on my "Award"-page. 
It's easier though to go direct:
                                               http://www.nhdc.gov.uk/index.html
chose button labeled "Our Feature Enhanced Homepage" to bring up panel 
on the left hand side of the screen; select "villages" (right at the 
bottom). 
>From there have a look at Codicote, Kimpton, Kings Walden (my one), 
Lilley, Offley, Preston, St.Pauls Walden and St.Ippollitts. These are 
all villages very close around here.
Have fun!
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 09:26:49 1997
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: mosaic tiles - HELP!
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:24:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan9.72432.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I just received mosaic stone cement from Diamond Tech 
International, which I am trying to use with
the small tile forms.  I did one with my pattern placed on the bottom of
the tile form, clear contact paper next with sticky side up.  Then put
glass on the sticky side and poured the mosaic stone cement into the
form.  When I released the form, the cement had absorbed the ink from
the edges of the paper pattern, where the contact paper did not cover
it.  And I ended up with a ridge where the contact paper did not quite
meet the edge.  The mixture was mixed at a ratio of 1:2 one part water
to two parts cement mix, which was the recommended mix on the 
directions.
I then tried another tile without pattern or contact paper and that one
turned out even worse.  I drew the pattern on the black tile form with
white marker.  I carefully placed the glass on top of the markings and
poured the mosaic stone cement mix on top.  When I removed the form
after a days time, a lot of cement mix had seeped over the glass, almost
covering completely my glass pieces.  It took forever to scrap the glass
clean, and come up with a decent looking tile.

Please, I am scheduled to teach a class on Saturday, I need to know the
correct procedure to get a good looking tile for my students.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 11:11:08 1997
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X-Path: digital.net!dti
From: Jennifer Daniels <dti@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic tiles - HELP!
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:09:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199701091909.OAA27302@digital.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Joyce,

Please give DTI a call at 800-937-9593 and we'll be happy to go over the
procedure with you. Or call Geneva Perkins at West of the Moon Studios at
813-932-4220.  She helped design the forms and patterns and is very helpful.
The mosaic tiles have had a great response and will be excellent in a class
because they are a quick and easy project that's enjoyable.  To make a
single tile try using 4oz of Mosaic Stone Cement and 3oz of water.

Jennifer
Diamond Tech International

At 12:24 PM 1/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I just received mosaic stone cement from Diamond Tech 
>International, which I am trying to use with
>the small tile forms.  I did one with my pattern placed on the bottom of
>the tile form, clear contact paper next with sticky side up.  Then put
>glass on the sticky side and poured the mosaic stone cement into the
>form.  When I released the form, the cement had absorbed the ink from
>the edges of the paper pattern, where the contact paper did not cover
>it.  And I ended up with a ridge where the contact paper did not quite
>meet the edge.  The mixture was mixed at a ratio of 1:2 one part water
>to two parts cement mix, which was the recommended mix on the 
>directions.
>I then tried another tile without pattern or contact paper and that one
>turned out even worse.  I drew the pattern on the black tile form with
>white marker.  I carefully placed the glass on top of the markings and
>poured the mosaic stone cement mix on top.  When I removed the form
>after a days time, a lot of cement mix had seeped over the glass, almost
>covering completely my glass pieces.  It took forever to scrap the glass
>clean, and come up with a decent looking tile.
>
>Please, I am scheduled to teach a class on Saturday, I need to know the
>correct procedure to get a good looking tile for my students.
>
>Garden of Glass
>Joyce Moran
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 11:25:07 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0viQ4g-0000zta; Thu, 9 Jan 97 11:23 PST
X-Path: akcache.com!landis
From: landis@akcache.com (Landis, Steven)
To: <Sysop>,
Subject: Re: lamp leveler
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:57:07 -0900
Message-ID: <1997Jan8.6577.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have been received e-mail messages such as the one below for the past two
days.  Why?  I have never requested corresponence with any regarding
"Glass".  I appreciate any help you can provide.

Thank you

Steven Landis

----------
> From: Jerry Cullingford <jc@crosfield.co.uk>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: lamp leveler
> Date: Wednesday, January 08, 1997 12:11 AM
> 
> > I have to ask- what is a lamp leveler and how do they work? I've never
> > been exposed to one. TIA
> > Larry from Oz
> 
> 
> It's basically a stand with a tilt-and-swivel head, and a threaded rod.
> basically, you attach the lamp form to it (fix a plywood disc near the
> bottom, which supports the base of the lamp form from the inside, drill a
> hole in the top of the form, thread it over the rod, then fix it on with
a
> nut), and you can then rotate/tilt the form so that the bit you're
working
> on is level - which sounds as though it should make things *much* easier
> when you're soldering the pieces together :-).
> 
> If I recall correctly, Worden do two models - a freestanding one, and one
> designed to be permanently attached to a workbench.
> 
> -- 
>    _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
>   / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
>   \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
> \__/     -----------------------------------------------------
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 13:28:25 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0viS13-00004la; Thu, 9 Jan 97 13:28 PST
X-Path: mychoice.net!nelda
From: "Nelda Ridlen" <nelda@mychoice.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: suncatchers
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:28:53 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.92853.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi, I'm looking for a pattern book similar to Carolyn Kyle's SUNCATCHERS IN
MINUTES, that features all the suncatchers wraped in lead came.  Most of
the books that I find use copper foil.  I would appericate any info you or
anyone else could give me.
Thank you,
Nelda Ridlen
Marion, Illinois 
email at  nelda@mychoice.net
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 14:31:01 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0viSzV-0000eNa; Thu, 9 Jan 97 14:30 PST
X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lamp leveler
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:30:23 PST
Message-ID: <m0viSzQ-0000qOC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "Re: lamp leveler" on Jan  8, 15:57, Landis, Steven writes:]
> I have been received e-mail messages such as the one below for the past two
> days.  Why?  I have never requested corresponence with any regarding
> "Glass".  I appreciate any help you can provide.
> 
> Thank you

Hi Steven,

I received a message from your address to be added on to the stained glass
email mailing list.  If you wish to be removed, it's not a problem...I
will remove you now.


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 16:44:16 1997
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X-Path: mail.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:05:14 +0000
Message-ID: <199701100043.AAA32657@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Nelda wrote:: Qoute
Hi, I'm looking for a pattern book similar to Carolyn Kyle's SUNCATCHERS IN
MINUTES, that features all the suncatchers wraped in lead came.  Most of
the books that I find use copper foil.  I would appericate any info you or
anyone else could give me.
Thank you,
Nelda Ridlen
Unquote

I wish I could help...
Who would'nt want to be able to produce a piece of stained glass "a minute".
Not quite sure here if to be flattered or insulted...
Or yet another "How-to-get-rich-quick-schemes".....
Dunno, I'll think I pass on this one....
Elisabeth 'n Toby

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 18:24:09 1997
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	id m0viWdG-0000i5a; Thu, 9 Jan 97 18:23 PST
X-Path: mychoice.net!nelda
From: "Nelda Ridlen" <nelda@mychoice.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:24:34 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.142434.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby....I'm not sure how to take your reply.  The idea is not to produce
suncatchers in a minute, nor is it to get rich quick!!!  I simply would
like to find another pattern book that uses lead came on the suncatchers. 
Obviously, you can't help...
Thank you for your time.
Nelda Ridlen
nelda@mychoice.net
----------
> From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: suncatchers
> Date: Thursday, January 09, 1997 7:05 PM
> 
> 
> Nelda wrote:: Qoute
> Hi, I'm looking for a pattern book similar to Carolyn Kyle's SUNCATCHERS
IN
> MINUTES, that features all the suncatchers wraped in lead came.  Most of
> the books that I find use copper foil.  I would appericate any info you
or
> anyone else could give me.
> Thank you,
> Nelda Ridlen
> Unquote
> 
> I wish I could help...
> Who would'nt want to be able to produce a piece of stained glass "a
minute".
> Not quite sure here if to be flattered or insulted...
> Or yet another "How-to-get-rich-quick-schemes".....
> Dunno, I'll think I pass on this one....
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 20:52:40 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic tiles - HELP!
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:51:50 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan9.185150.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I haven't used Diamond Tech's cement, but I have done quite a few stones.
 Here's what I do, after glass is cut and edges ground.  
1.  I lay out my paper pattern and pin the morton layout things to delineate
the edges.  
2.  Then I lay my glass right side up on the paper pattern.
3.  Place a piece of clear contact paper, cut to fit, over the "right side
up" glass.
4.  After my mold has been greased, I put the glass with the contact paper
attached into the mold "right side" down.
5.  Make any adjustments to the glass as it may have moved a little in the
flipping.  It is still attached to the contact paper and I'm looking at the
wrong side now.
6.  Mix and pour the topping, add chicken wire, then add cement.

Obviously, since you are doing coaster/tiles you will need to change step 6,
but I would think the other steps are the same.  Good luck.  Barbara
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 21:24:16 1997
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	id m0viZRC-0000WJa; Thu, 9 Jan 97 21:23 PST
X-Path: monmouth.com!clambert
From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:16:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan9.191623.0>
References: <<1997Jan10.142434.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Enchanted Glass
Precedence: bulk

Nelda Ridlen wrote:
> 
> Toby....I'm not sure how to take your reply.  The idea is not to produce
> suncatchers in a minute, nor is it to get rich quick!!!  I simply would
> like to find another pattern book that uses lead came on the suncatchers.
> Obviously, you can't help...
> Thank you for your time.
> Nelda Ridlen
> nelda@mychoice.net
> ----------
> > From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: Re: suncatchers
> > Date: Thursday, January 09, 1997 7:05 PM
> >
> >
> > Nelda wrote:: Qoute
> > Hi, I'm looking for a pattern book similar to Carolyn Kyle's SUNCATCHERS
> IN
> > MINUTES, that features all the suncatchers wraped in lead came.  Most of
> > the books that I find use copper foil.  I would appericate any info you
> or
> > anyone else could give me.
> > Thank you,
> > Nelda Ridlen
> > Unquote
> >
> > I wish I could help...
> > Who would'nt want to be able to produce a piece of stained glass "a
> minute".
> > Not quite sure here if to be flattered or insulted...
> > Or yet another "How-to-get-rich-quick-schemes".....
> > Dunno, I'll think I pass on this one....
> > Elisabeth 'n Toby
> >
> > ----
> > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> > ----
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
I don't know if I can be of any help but somewhere in my office I have a
book of angel suncatchers done with lead came.  If this is something you
are looking for reply and I will hunt it down for you.
CRZKT
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 22:08:49 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 22:32:19 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan9.153219.0>
References: <<1997Jan10.142434.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Nelda Ridlen wrote:
> 
> Toby....I'm not sure how to take your reply.  The idea is not to produce
> suncatchers in a minute, nor is it to get rich quick!!!  I simply would
> like to find another pattern book that uses lead came on the suncatchers.
> Obviously, you can't help...
> Thank you for your time.
> Nelda Ridlen
> nelda@mychoice.net
> ----------
> > From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
> > To: glass@bungi.com
> > Subject: Re: suncatchers
> > Date: Thursday, January 09, 1997 7:05 PM
> >
> >
> > Nelda wrote:: Qoute
> > Hi, I'm looking for a pattern book similar to Carolyn Kyle's SUNCATCHERS
> IN
> > MINUTES, that features all the suncatchers wraped in lead came.  Most of
> > the books that I find use copper foil.  I would appericate any info you
> or
> > anyone else could give me.
> > Thank you,
> > Nelda Ridlen
> > Unquote
> >
> > I wish I could help...
> > Who would'nt want to be able to produce a piece of stained glass "a
> minute".
> > Not quite sure here if to be flattered or insulted...
> > Or yet another "How-to-get-rich-quick-schemes".....
> > Dunno, I'll think I pass on this one....
> > Elisabeth 'n Toby
> >
> > ----
> > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> > ----
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi Nelda,
	Please be aware of some of that dry UK humor that comes from 
Elizabeth.  Want to know how to take her comments?  Just like the rest 
of us, with a smile and an open mind.  Elizabeth has been extremely 
helpful to so many of us so many times.  Give it a try, Nelda.  You miss 
the nuances of speech with all this typing.  Elizabeth is now warm, 
thanks to a repaired boiler, and she's feeling a bit more spunky.  A 
nice change from her more somber responses when she was living in the 
big chill.  Hang in there --
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 22:10:26 1997
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From: "James R. Laws" <jrlaws@worldnet.att.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Floor Lamp Base
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 22:22:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan9.17226.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have been trying to find a lamp base for a considerable period of 
time.  I am looking for a floor lamp base.  Every catalog I find has the 
same two bases or three basis in a Tiffany style.  When I look at 
regular bases, they all look like they are for a Tiffany lamps.  I am 
looking for a simple, modern base.  Does anyone know where I can find a 
source for other types of bases.  

I am also curious why all of the catalogs believe that the only type of 
lanp anyone would ever want to make is a Tiffany.  They seem to lack 
imagination in this area.
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan  9 22:35:21 1997
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X-Path: mychoice.net!nelda
From: "Nelda Ridlen" <nelda@mychoice.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 00:35:46 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.183546.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

CRZKT,  Thanks for the offer.  I would be interested in the angel book.

----------
> From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: suncatchers
> Date: Thursday, January 09, 1997 11:16 PM
> 
> Nelda Ridlen wrote:
> > 
> > Toby....I'm not sure how to take your reply.  The idea is not to
produce
> > suncatchers in a minute, nor is it to get rich quick!!!  I simply would
> > like to find another pattern book that uses lead came on the
suncatchers.
> > Obviously, you can't help...
> > Thank you for your time.
> > Nelda Ridlen
> > nelda@mychoice.net
> > ----------
> > > From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
> > > To: glass@bungi.com
> > > Subject: Re: suncatchers
> > > Date: Thursday, January 09, 1997 7:05 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > Nelda wrote:: Qoute
> > > Hi, I'm looking for a pattern book similar to Carolyn Kyle's
SUNCATCHERS
> > IN
> > > MINUTES, that features all the suncatchers wraped in lead came.  Most
of
> > > the books that I find use copper foil.  I would appericate any info
you
> > or
> > > anyone else could give me.
> > > Thank you,
> > > Nelda Ridlen
> > > Unquote
> > >
> > > I wish I could help...
> > > Who would'nt want to be able to produce a piece of stained glass "a
> > minute".
> > > Not quite sure here if to be flattered or insulted...
> > > Or yet another "How-to-get-rich-quick-schemes".....
> > > Dunno, I'll think I pass on this one....
> > > Elisabeth 'n Toby
> > >
> > > ----
> > > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> > > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> > > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> > > ----
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> I don't know if I can be of any help but somewhere in my office I have a
> book of angel suncatchers done with lead came.  If this is something you
> are looking for reply and I will hunt it down for you.
> CRZKT
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 01:00:06 1997
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X-Path: ibm.net!mstreng
From: Martin Streng <mstreng@ibm.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: UK "Links"
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:53:25 +0100
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.105325.0>
References: <<199701091529.PAA08179@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Crediet- en Effectenbank
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> A tip, specially aimed at YOU GUYS joining me here in UK for the
> CHARTRES TRIP if you are interested in local/regional UK history to
Hi Elisabeth,
long time no write, but too busy ice-skating, working, holidays and of
course building windows. Just completed a bedroom-door window (violets)
and started on a turtle-window for a new-born. Made a rather large
design for my parents-in-law. 

About those yanks visiting Europe: ever thought of making a side-tour to
Gouda in Holland to visit the Sint-Jans Kerk (Church of Saint John).
Beautiful windows by the Crabeth brothers. Gouda is also a nice little
town to visit. If you like i can scan some window-examples and mail them
to you. Getting your mail could take some time then though...

On your site you mention some work of yours in Holland. Where? I would
like to see them live.
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 04:15:30 1997
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X-Path: bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic tiles - HELP!
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:13:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.21333.0>
References: <<1997Jan9.185150.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I haven't used Diamond Tech's cement, but I have done quite a few stones.
>  Here's what I do, after glass is cut and edges ground.
> 1.  I lay out my paper pattern and pin the morton layout things to delineate
> the edges.
> 2.  Then I lay my glass right side up on the paper pattern.
> 3.  Place a piece of clear contact paper, cut to fit, over the "right side
> up" glass.
> 4.  After my mold has been greased, I put the glass with the contact paper
> attached into the mold "right side" down.
> 5.  Make any adjustments to the glass as it may have moved a little in the
> flipping.  It is still attached to the contact paper and I'm looking at the
> wrong side now.
> 6.  Mix and pour the topping, add chicken wire, then add cement.
> 
> Obviously, since you are doing coaster/tiles you will need to change step 6,
> but I would think the other steps are the same.  Good luck.  Barbara


I have done the regular large size cement molds with no problem....I 
think the difference is the Diamond Tech cement.  I really need someone 
with experience with that stuff to let me know the correct mix....oz 
doesn't help me because I have no way to weigh the stuff.  I premeasured 
the amount in a 2lb container and it came out to be 3 cups.  So I 
figured mix with 1 1/2 cups water would be 2:1 ratio.  It seems to be 
too thin.  My tiles did clean up ok, but it took more work to clean them 
up, than to do in the first place.  I ended up having to sand off the 
ridges where the contact paper was and that was a very tedious chore.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 05:24:14 1997
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X-Path: CompuServe.COM!70544.3642
From: "Albert Lewis [IGGA]" <70544.3642@CompuServe.COM>
To: BlindCopyReceiver:;@compuserve,.com
Subject: Email address change
Date: 10 Jan 97 08:22:29 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.132229.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


I've changed my email address (and the Guild HQ's, as far as that goes) to

   alewis@computer.net

Please update your address book.

Albert
                __________________________________________
                Albert Lewis            Executive Director
                International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
                Tonetta Lake Road  ***   Brewster NY 10509
                (914) 278-2152 [msg]   Fax: (914) 278-2481
                __________________________________________
                     http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 05:56:22 1997
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X-Path: ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU!UURESPES
From: UURESPES@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:55:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.3552.0>
References: <<1997Jan10.92853.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have a book like that at home.  I will get the name of it and send it
to you next week.  The designs are charming and look really easy to do.
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 06:24:33 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Floor Lamp Base
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:19:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.41932.0>
References: <<1997Jan9.17226.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

James R. Laws wrote:
> 
> I have been trying to find a lamp base for a considerable period of
> time.  I am looking for a floor lamp base.  Every catalog I find has the
> same two bases or three basis in a Tiffany style.  When I look at
> regular bases, they all look like they are for a Tiffany lamps.  I am
> looking for a simple, modern base.  Does anyone know where I can find a
> source for other types of bases.
> 
> I am also curious why all of the catalogs believe that the only type of
> lanp anyone would ever want to make is a Tiffany.  They seem to lack
> imagination in this area.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

to find a lamp base you can #1 try going to an electrical store that
mainly sells lamps and see what they have in thier private catalogs. or
#2 build one you self.

most lamps are known as tiffanys so for the most part they'll look like
tiffany. mainly because some people are just not very creative. the
other base around (and i think only in kits), is the frank lloyd wright
bases but mainly there all oblisk shaped pieces of mahagony. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 06:24:35 1997
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X-Path: mychoice.net!nelda
From: "Nelda Ridlen" <nelda@mychoice.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:24:41 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan11.22441.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

UURESPES...Thanks, I'm looking forward to hearing from you next week.

----------
> From: UURESPES@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: suncatchers
> Date: Friday, January 10, 1997 7:55 AM
> 
> I have a book like that at home.  I will get the name of it and send it
> to you next week.  The designs are charming and look really easy to do.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 06:38:02 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mosaic tiles - HELP!
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:37:23 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.143723.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Joyce,

I haven't had a lot of experience with the tiles, but I did come up with an
idea that might be useful to you ...... I also had trouble with the glass
pieces moving or shifting and cement seeping underneath, etc. etc.  So, I
cut my contact paper to the size and shape of the mold, then use tacky wax
to stick the contact paper (sticky side up)to the bottom of the mold.  The
contact paper should hold your glass pieces in place and the tacky wax will
hold your contact paper in place ....... nothing moves while you're adding
cement.

     
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass


At 05:24 PM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I just received mosaic stone cement from Diamond Tech 
>International, which I am trying to use with
>the small tile forms.  I did one with my pattern placed on the bottom of
>the tile form, clear contact paper next with sticky side up.  Then put
>glass on the sticky side and poured the mosaic stone cement into the
>form.  When I released the form, the cement had absorbed the ink from
>the edges of the paper pattern, where the contact paper did not cover
>it.  And I ended up with a ridge where the contact paper did not quite
>meet the edge.  The mixture was mixed at a ratio of 1:2 one part water
>to two parts cement mix, which was the recommended mix on the 
>directions.
>I then tried another tile without pattern or contact paper and that one
>turned out even worse.  I drew the pattern on the black tile form with
>white marker.  I carefully placed the glass on top of the markings and
>poured the mosaic stone cement mix on top.  When I removed the form
>after a days time, a lot of cement mix had seeped over the glass, almost
>covering completely my glass pieces.  It took forever to scrap the glass
>clean, and come up with a decent looking tile.
>
>Please, I am scheduled to teach a class on Saturday, I need to know the
>correct procedure to get a good looking tile for my students.
>
>Garden of Glass
>Joyce Moran
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 07:36:54 1997
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From: April Paine <vgplugs@primeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 10:41:49 PST
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.184149.0>
References: <<1997Jan9.153219.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Phil for explaining...that was nice..

April
vgplugs@primeline.com
In The Smoky Mountains, Zone 6
Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass      "Where Gardening Is An Art."




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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 09:19:10 1997
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From: GlasCrafts@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:18:31 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.71831.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Nelda wrote:
Hi, I'm looking for a pattern book similar to Carolyn Kyle's SUNCATCHERS IN
MINUTES......

We stock 3 other lead came project books:
#7432  Dimensions of Christmas - Primarily angels, a small Nativity and other
Christmas ornaments to wrap with came, $10.95
#7076  Sundancers - 62 patterns for sports figures (a bowler, golfer, etc.),
animals, butterflies, and Christmas ornaments wrapped in came, $5.95
#7359  All Through the Night - 50 easy and cute night light patterns to be
wrapped with lead came, $13.95
Please call toll-free to order if interested.

Glass Crafters Stained Glass, Inc.
398 Interstate Ct.
Sarasota, FL 34240
1-800-422-4552
1-941-379-8333
FAX: 1-941-379-8827
GlasCrafts@aol.com
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 12:14:47 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           GLASS@BUNGI.COM
Subject:      clocks
Date:         Fri, 10 Jan 97 15:10:23 EST
Message-ID:   <970110.151423.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I've been looking through the catalogs I can find (I'm still straightening
up from the before Christmas madhouse - but that's another story), and I
can't find anyone who carries the "bezel clocks".   Those are the clocks
that are round and self-contained and generally run on a watch battery
or AAA battery.  I've seen them in stained glass and in wood, etc., so
there must be a reasonable source.  Any ideas?
Thanks.
And the weekend comes not a minute too soon!

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 13:11:00 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:13:30 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.41330.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Check out www.webcom.com/pub/z4murray/main/matclock.mcc

It's full of resources regarding clocks.

Or The American Clockmaker has a toll free number 800-236-7300 ..... call
for the latest catalogue.



At 08:10 PM 1/10/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I've been looking through the catalogs I can find (I'm still straightening
>up from the before Christmas madhouse - but that's another story), and I
>can't find anyone who carries the "bezel clocks".   Those are the clocks
>that are round and self-contained and generally run on a watch battery
>or AAA battery.  I've seen them in stained glass and in wood, etc., so
>there must be a reasonable source.  Any ideas?
>Thanks.
>And the weekend comes not a minute too soon!
>
>--
>Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
>UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
>HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 13:57:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:17:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199701102156.VAA28764@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Precedence: bulk

Thanks "T" and April for rushing to my defense  :-)
Hey "T"; was that really ME you were describing??! I must really go 
and polish my shoes and clean my finger-nails!!

I had just come "off-line" from having another look at Mike's "fish 
lamp" on which he spent almost 300 hours and saw this rather short 
message about making suncatchers in minutes (sigh!). Could the book be 
a "concoction" by  my all time favourite Mr. Ed S. Jr ?? 

Sorry Nelda, don't mean to be rude or hurtful - my UK "conditioning" 
gives me a different sense of mischief now and then. However, I would 
like to offer the following comments, which is not the answer you're 
looking for, but might in the end prove helpful;
I would have thought that in theory any sun-catcher pattern designed 
for copper foil should work equally well for lead (by this I assume 
you mean the type of fairly thin "wrap-around-lead"). I have seen examples 
of it at suppliers as well as the resulting artefacts at crafts 
shops. Hence any attractive copper foil design you find should lend 
itself to this method also. (i.e. my old princple - improvise!)

One other thing to be aware of, is that  this "wrap-around-lead" sags 
and parts company with the glass in due course. This process is 
speeded up in heat and sun. The result of these distortions can look 
extremely comical.
There is a kind of "wrap-around-lead" with an adhesive coating on it 
(rather like copper foil). I first came across it last summer at an 
International Crafts Exhibition I attended. The artist in question 
has made some quite stunning mirror creations using this type of 
lead. I was told it was a brand new product and only manufactured and 
available in Germany. But maybe for you guys "Across the Pond", this 
is already "old hat" and you have had it for yeeaaaars. 
Kind Regards
Elisabeth 'n Toby

P.S. Central heating.. Oh, blisssss!!! PPPuuurrrrrrrr....
Hha -Ha- Haaattcchhhoooo!!!!!!
Martin - will reply direct. I'd love to see them myself too. About 3; 
all in private houses. Planning to come to Amsterdam (for fun & Van 
Gogh)...... could it be a Date.????

Kathe - will get back to you

Mike Peck : Toby says, check your e-mail
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 13:57:05 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Floor Lamp Base
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:17:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199701102156.VAA28752@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 Hi James (Laws) and Mike (Savad),

I too find it difficult to find interesting TABLE lamp bases - never mind 
FLOOR ones. I know exactly what you mean and share your sentiments 
entirely. When I am not climbing ladders and scaffolding in howling 
winds (not to mention the rain & snow!!) to supervise installation of my panels,
 I do enjoy making the occasional lamp, or (- BLISS!) a pendulum 
clock. But never, ever would I dream to call my little lamp creations 
"Tiffany". I keep on "having to"  buy lamp bases from  my 2-3 stained 
glass suppliers. They are  99 per cent orientated towards Tiffany 
style lamps - even over here. ( Graceful naked ladies holding balls 
.... sorrry.... A ball;  elegantly twisted, twirly, moulded bits of metal 
which have been coated with various anitiqued finishes, costing from 
15 dollars upwards to easily  150 dollars. Because that is how the 
manufacturer sees the wholesaler selling to the artist who supplies 
the customer. The customer not having been exposed to anything else 
"expects" this sort of base.). It's up to US to change this 
perception and expectation....
Have you followed me??

3 solutions that  I am gradually turning towards more and more;

1. We have probably "inherited" the idea of car boot sales from you 
guys. I have a number of friends who visit these for a "fun morning 
out".  They have a "brief" from me to buy anything  that looks like a
"lamp-base" (wood, stone, ceramics - anything) for a couple of 
dollars or so.

2. Interesting shaped and partly hollow tree stumps. One of my next-door 
neighbours is a "tree surgeon", others are often involved in  forrestry, land 
management and so on. I tell them - or show them - what I am looking 
for and they often find something interesting in the woodlands that 
they work in and bring it back to me. I have 3 of these stumps drying 
out in my "junk-room". I can't wait to  turn them into lamp-bases. If 
you know the 19th Century British Artist Arthur Rackham and his tree 
shapes, you will know what I mean. Knarled, twisted, exciting bits of 
trees, with knots and twirly bits....

3. Really "up-market";  befriend a wood-turner, wine & dine him (or 
her); make them your "best pal" and then ask THEM to turn you 
something in wood that you can use as a lamp base (The same applies 
to a black-smith...). The secret is - I think -  to make sure you 
can make it stable & heavy at the bottom to carry and balance the 
weight of the glass. In the case of the wood, which sort of presents 
itself to you as a "shape", is to be able to drill a hole straight 
through (if it is not already hollow) to allow for wiring etc; but 
also additional holes into which you can add extra weight or 
stability & balance (scrap lead comes to mind..), and then cover up 
elegantly.

My lamps are very simple & basic - they cause me enough headaches 
though. (Which is why  I stand in awe at Mike's lamp). If I can only 
get the "right" lamp-base for it, mine too would be unique and 
unusual!! Manufacturers and wholesalers cannot provide this sort of 
"uniqueness". This is where improvisation comes in. Look around you, 
however absurd and unlikely - somewhere is something that is just 
"right". Another thing, "Mother Nature" has got an extraordinary 
wealth of materials for  us to use, if only we could SEE.
It's there for nothing, but for a little work........

I hope my posting has helped and given you "lateral" ideas....
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 14:16:42 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: clocks
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:37:47 +0000
Message-ID: <199701102216.WAA03521@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Precedence: bulk



Clocks! Clocks!! Did anyone mention CLOCKS?! Thank you Dorothy and 
thank you MIKE PECK!.  Running hot-foot to follow up the web-site you 
suggested...
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 14:46:08 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:40:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.124038.0>
References: <<970110.151423.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

mail wrote:
> 
> I've been looking through the catalogs I can find (I'm still straightening
> up from the before Christmas madhouse - but that's another story), and I
> can't find anyone who carries the "bezel clocks".   Those are the clocks
> that are round and self-contained and generally run on a watch battery
> or AAA battery.  I've seen them in stained glass and in wood, etc., so
> there must be a reasonable source.  Any ideas?
> Thanks.
> And the weekend comes not a minute too soon!
> 
> --
> Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
> UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
> HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


clock catalogs should have it, clock-it is one i know of. or catalogs
that sell barometers, usaully they have clocks there too.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 15:03:39 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Floor Lamp Base
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:59:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.12598.0>
References: <<199701102156.VAA28752@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> My lamps are very simple & basic - they cause me enough headaches
> though. (Which is why  I stand in awe at Mike's lamp). If I can only
> get the "right" lamp-base for it, mine too would be unique and
> unusual!! Manufacturers and wholesalers cannot provide this sort of
> "uniqueness". This is where improvisation comes in. Look around you,
> however absurd and unlikely - somewhere is something that is just
> "right". Another thing, "Mother Nature" has got an extraordinary
> wealth of materials for  us to use, if only we could SEE.
> It's there for nothing, but for a little work........
> 
> I hope my posting has helped and given you "lateral" ideas....
> Elisabeth 'n Toby


also if you choose a metal type lamp, make sure it's absoultly straight,
because people will notice if it's crooked. when i was designing my
lamp, i looked through all the catalogs, and found nothing i liked.
that's why i made my own, it was a pain designing it though, there was
so many factors involved. for a floor lamp you would need a rather wide
base and very heavy. sheets of steel, or poured lead (though not very
kid friendly) could work. in the case of my lamp, the very base of it is
made from a very high quality plywood, with glass as an overlay. being
wood, it allowed me to bolt on the center rod, and to give me a nice
flat level surface to work with. 

you could also try making one yourself, using copper wire, or copper
sheeting, squished into the right shapes you could make a tree or
something.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 15:08:40 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:03:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.13359.0>
References: <<199701102156.VAA28764@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Thanks "T" and April for rushing to my defense  :-)
> Hey "T"; was that really ME you were describing??! I must really go
> and polish my shoes and clean my finger-nails!!
> 
> I had just come "off-line" from having another look at Mike's "fish
> lamp" on which he spent almost 300 hours and saw this rather short
> message about making suncatchers in minutes (sigh!). Could the book be
> a "concoction" by  my all time favourite Mr. Ed S. Jr ??
> 
> Sorry Nelda, don't mean to be rude or hurtful - my UK "conditioning"
> gives me a different sense of mischief now and then. However, I would
> like to offer the following comments, which is not the answer you're
> looking for, but might in the end prove helpful;
> I would have thought that in theory any sun-catcher pattern designed
> for copper foil should work equally well for lead (by this I assume
> you mean the type of fairly thin "wrap-around-lead"). I have seen examples
> of it at suppliers as well as the resulting artefacts at crafts
> shops. Hence any attractive copper foil design you find should lend
> itself to this method also. (i.e. my old princple - improvise!)
> 
> One other thing to be aware of, is that  this "wrap-around-lead" sags
> and parts company with the glass in due course. This process is
> speeded up in heat and sun. The result of these distortions can look
> extremely comical.
> There is a kind of "wrap-around-lead" with an adhesive coating on it
> (rather like copper foil). I first came across it last summer at an
> International Crafts Exhibition I attended. The artist in question
> has made some quite stunning mirror creations using this type of
> lead. I was told it was a brand new product and only manufactured and
> available in Germany. But maybe for you guys "Across the Pond", this
> is already "old hat" and you have had it for yeeaaaars.
> Kind Regards
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> P.S. Central heating.. Oh, blisssss!!! PPPuuurrrrrrrr....
> Hha -Ha- Haaattcchhhoooo!!!!!!
> Martin - will reply direct. I'd love to see them myself too. About 3;
> all in private houses. Planning to come to Amsterdam (for fun & Van
> Gogh)...... could it be a Date.????
> 
> Kathe - will get back to you
> 
> Mike Peck : Toby says, check your e-mail
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


how about that stick on lead, i personally never hear of it. i heard of
plastic came (needs a plastic welder) but come in a bunch of colors.
brass capped, or came with built in reinforcments. i wonder how much
this stuff is, and how does it work in the "H" style came? i really
don't ever work with came except for the occasional came twist
decoration. but it's nice to know about other resources.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 15:14:40 1997
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From: Rod Dagenais <dagenais@limestone.kosone.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:10:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.131038.0>
References: <<970110.151423.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Mystic Glass
Precedence: bulk

mail wrote:
> 
> I've been looking through the catalogs I can find (I'm still straightening
> up from the before Christmas madhouse - but that's another story), and I
> can't find anyone who carries the "bezel clocks".   Those are the clocks
> that are round and self-contained and generally run on a watch battery
> or AAA battery.  I've seen them in stained glass and in wood, etc., so
> there must be a reasonable source.  Any ideas?
> Thanks.
> And the weekend comes not a minute too soon!
> 
> --
> Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
> UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
> HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

First.... I know i do make lots of mistake when writting in english So please be gentle 
with me......
You might want to try LeeValley Tools LTD 1-800-267-8767 which they are located in 
canada and ask for catalog or any woodworking tools supplier.
They are used for woodworking project.
-- 
Rodrigue Dagenais
Napanee, Ontario
Mystic Glass
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 15:37:26 1997
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From: baer0701@ipa.net (Brian Baer)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Remove
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:35:32 -0600 (CST)
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Please remove me from the mailing list

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 16:24:27 1997
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From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:15:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.141544.0>
References: <<1997Jan10.71831.0>>
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GlasCrafts@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Nelda wrote:
> Hi, I'm looking for a pattern book similar to Carolyn Kyle's SUNCATCHERS IN
> MINUTES......
> 
> We stock 3 other lead came project books:
> #7432  Dimensions of Christmas - Primarily angels, a small Nativity and other
> Christmas ornaments to wrap with came, $10.95
> #7076  Sundancers - 62 patterns for sports figures (a bowler, golfer, etc.),
> animals, butterflies, and Christmas ornaments wrapped in came, $5.95
> #7359  All Through the Night - 50 easy and cute night light patterns to be
> wrapped with lead came, $13.95
> Please call toll-free to order if interested.
> 
> Glass Crafters Stained Glass, Inc.
> 398 Interstate Ct.
> Sarasota, FL 34240
> 1-800-422-4552
> 1-941-379-8333
> FAX: 1-941-379-8827
> GlasCrafts@aol.com
> ----
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In reference to lead came suncatchers... I dug up the book I had and it
was Dimensions in Christmas  (btw an excellent book with easy patterns)
hope this has been some help!
crzkt
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 17:20:16 1997
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From: Doug Scale <proffire@ebtech.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Bevel clocks
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:17:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.151757.0>
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Dorothy,
Ther is a company just north of Toronto Ontario, Kidder Plastic and Clock 
supplies that has the type of clock you are after in their catalogue.  
phone 800 263-3556.  If 800 number only good for Canada try fax at 
905-731-8424.  


Regards,
Doug Scale
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 18:20:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Floor Lamp Base
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:40:00 +0000
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Great ideas Mike (Savad)!
 Keep 'em coming. Constantly looking for more!What about making a metal 
base that is "deliberately" crooked (except that you make sure you 
get your centre of gravity right).
Having a glass lamp isn't "kid-friendly" - in the first place 
though..... Or as people say in UK   "in for a penny, in for a pound" 
!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 18:20:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:40:00 +0000
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 Hi Mike (Savad),

Aha! So you ain't heard of this yet then! Glad to see this li'lle 
"Ole World" can catch at least ONE march on you guys!!
The lead used over here instead of copperfoil & soldering for 
suncatchers (like the ones Nelda describes) is like a 
thin version of a U or C-came. It needs crimping down quite firmly. 
Initially, it looks quite good, but - as I said before -after a few weeks 
the lead starts to sag and part company with the glass.
The lead this German artist was using for her mirror creations (great big 
monster things), was thinner still and with an adhesive coating to 
make it crimp on to the glass better and STAY there..  Again, not my 
sort of thing, but the whole idea fascinated me and I just had to 
admire her innovation & creativity. I had a long discussion with her, 
took her card etc. If  this idea really "grabs" anyone irresistably, 
I will do my best to dig further and get the details. But it will 
take a little while.. As it was, I never pursued it, but just registered it as such.
I sort of assumed that you guys knew all about it........
"Stick-on-lead" as such, over here is not unusual in itself .
 It's frequently used to produce fake imitation  diamonds or 
Edwardian leaded lights by double-glazing companies. Some of them 
even use plastic coloured sheets to fake stained glass designs. What 
I personally think about this particular feature is totally and utterly unprintable and 
requires a great depth of knowledge of ancient and basic Swedish......
It is many times stronger than the Arabic delicate blessing, that in 
translation runs some thing like: "May your armpits be blessed with 
the visit of 10,000 fleas........"     ;-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

I (Elisabeth) wrote:
> There is a kind of "wrap-around-lead" with an adhesive coating on it
> (rather like copper foil). I first came across it last summer at an
> International Crafts Exhibition I attended. The artist in question
> has made some quite stunning mirror creations using this type of
> lead. I was told it was a brand new product and only manufactured and
> available in Germany. But maybe for you guys "Across the Pond", this
> is already "old hat" and you have had it for yeeaaaars.
Mike Savad wrote:
how about that stick on lead, i personally never hear of it. i heard of
plastic came (needs a plastic welder) but come in a bunch of colors.
brass capped, or came with built in reinforcments. i wonder how much
this stuff is, and how does it work in the "H" style came? i really
don't ever work with came except for the occasional came twist
decoration. but it's nice to know about other resources.

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 18:20:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: clocks
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:40:00 +0000
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Mike Savad) wrote

clock catalogs should have it, clock-it is one i know of. or catalogs
that sell barometers, usaully they have clocks there too.

Have you any more details, Mike??  (please)
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 18:39:07 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Floor Lamp Base
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:36:43 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan10.163643.0>
References: <<199701102156.VAA28752@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Hi Elisabeth!

On the topic of recycling for lamp bases, all the trendy shops had lamps
with bases made of scrounged mop and broom handles last year. They were 
defiantly scraggly,  with enamel chipping off, no two alike, wired into a
bundle, placed on some other found wood base.... now I doubt you'd want to
put an elegant, painstaking glass design atop these Dumpster Diver
specials without removing the paint, but after that you'd have some long
sturdy dowels with the grain accented by the paint you couldn't completely
remove. 

Mary



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From owner-glass Fri Jan 10 20:44:26 1997
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From: astickney@ipa.net (arthur e. stickney)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Floor Lamp Base
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:42:51 -0600 (CST)
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>I have been trying to find a lamp base for a considerable period of 
>time.  I am looking for a floor lamp base.  Every catalog I find has the 
>same two bases or three basis in a Tiffany style.  When I look at 
>regular bases, they all look like they are for a Tiffany lamps.  I am 
>looking for a simple, modern base.  Does anyone know where I can find a 
>source for other types of bases.  
>
>I am also curious why all of the catalogs believe that the only type of 
>lanp anyone would ever want to make is a Tiffany.  They seem to lack 
>imagination in this area.
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>
>
I go to flea markets and garage sales and find all kinds of lamp bases some
good and some not so good but very reasonable to buy.

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 11 07:01:54 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bbbrrrrr!   and UK "Links"
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:01:09 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970111100957.27f7c8c2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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Good Morning Toby and All from cold upstate NY..
                I would like to ask a question about your reference to
Netscape 3 crashes..   When you say "crash", does that mean that you receive
a dialog box that tells you of an application error and you should save your
work (?) as well as giving you two choices (of buttons) to either Ignore /
Close or something else entirely?  (Now, you don't see a run on sentence of
this caliber often, do you?)
                I am wondering because this often happens to me when I am
spending time on pages with lots of graphics, such as stained glass pages..
I am wondering if "crashing" is happening here or should I be concerned
about an even worse fate should I select a specific site.... 
                I also would like to ask a stained glass question.... (what
a concept) 
I am currently working on a panel that is 14" X 19.5" with 135 pieces...
(lot's of practice with inside curves).  I think that I am going to need to
reinforce this panel and I do not know how I should go about doing so...  It
is foil wrapped pieces, not leaded glass.  Do you have a suggestion for me?
Thanks.


At 03:50 PM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Mike (Savad) and everybody else,
>
>4 inches of snow, but my boiler now repaired (HOORRAYY!!); now 
>fighting off a secondary cold .
>Mike,I have you now on my Links-page.
>Mike Peck experienced some problems  getting into Links from other 
>pages than my Front Home page (He is using Netscape 3). My Computer 
>Guru tells me that often when Netscape 3 comes across a complication, 
>it choses to crash rather than dealing with it. Mike Peck found no problem 
>when accessing from Home Page itself. Perhaps worth bearing in 
>mind...
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 11 08:07:56 1997
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From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:07:30 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970111111618.27f7a33c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I agree ....  I so look forward to Elisabeth's letters, I enjoy her style,
appreciate her
knowledge and respect her pride and dedication to her art.... 
                 I have made it a point to slow down when I get frustrated
with my lack of skill in cutting glass and soldering especially.  "Seeing"
the piece in my head is the easy part .... getting that vision out into the
world through my hands has been tough.  Elisabeth's pride in her work shines
through to me every time so ... I don't accept less than what I really like
... and I recut, recut, recut.  Thanks to Elisabeth and so many Others of
this list that help me stay focused on this process .....
At 10:41 AM 1/10/97 PST, you wrote:
>Thanks Phil for explaining...that was nice..
>
>April
>vgplugs@primeline.com
>In The Smoky Mountains, Zone 6
>Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass      "Where Gardening Is An Art."
>
>
>
>
>----
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>
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 11 08:12:05 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:07:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan11.6738.0>
References: <<199701110218.CAA09871@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Toby wrote:
> 
> Mike Savad) wrote
> 
> clock catalogs should have it, clock-it is one i know of. or catalogs
> that sell barometers, usaully they have clocks there too.
> 
> Have you any more details, Mike??  (please)
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i could'nt find my clock catalog, but i did find another:
WOODCRAFT
numbers:
customer service: 1-800-535-4482
technical advice: 1-304-464-1074
credit card orders: 1-800-225-1153
fax: 1-304-428-8271

they seem to have a few pages on clocks, and the page i'm looking at
right now has about 25 different types all bezel, (the insert kind).
and i just found the url for them,
http://www2.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/pages/catinfo1.htm
this will bring you right to their catalog request page.

is that enough detail?  ;)

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 11 08:22:25 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Floor Lamp Base
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:17:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan11.61755.0>
References: <<199701110218.CAA09899@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Great ideas Mike (Savad)!
>  Keep 'em coming. Constantly looking for more!What about making a metal
> base that is "deliberately" crooked (except that you make sure you
> get your centre of gravity right).
> Having a glass lamp isn't "kid-friendly" - in the first place
> though..... Or as people say in UK   "in for a penny, in for a pound"
> !!
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

welp i guess the only other ideas i can come up with are for table
lamps, if you can work with wood, you can try building something.
remember a base does'nt have to be round, so you can make it any shape.
you can you some pine, then spray it with a granite spray, or that
string paint, or marblize it. 

maybe you can find a very sturdy branch, and make a base from that some
how, you would'nt have to make a hole down the center, instead carve a
small dado in the back for the wire. heavy duty conduit should work,
wrap it up in copper, tin it, put glass on it, etc. if you were to cover
it in copper sheeting, give it a rough texture, then make glass leaves,
and use wire and stuff, to give you a tree look. though that would be
dificult to clean. 

if you used to 2x4's glued together (with a grove down the center first,
no drilling needed), then use a spoke shave or a saw (if you have
either) to knock down the corners. then it can be painted or whatever,
though i would'nt choose a clear paint, that wood would look ugly.

and of course it does'nt nessecarily have to be a floor lamp, if the
lamp is going to be next to a wall, you could make up a wall mount
shade. but if you do that it would have to be fairly stong.

i guess it would depend on how modern a look you were after. but how
about this: use 1" copper tubing, and make the whole stand copper pipe.
give it that "i'm living in and old factory look", that "retro apartment
look". of course what to top it as, who knows...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 11 08:33:27 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bbbrrrrr!   and UK "Links"
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:28:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan11.62849.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970111100957.27f7c8c2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

B. J. Snell wrote:
> 
> Good Morning Toby and All from cold upstate NY..
>                 I would like to ask a question about your reference to
> Netscape 3 crashes..   When you say "crash", does that mean that you receive
> a dialog box that tells you of an application error and you should save your
> work (?) as well as giving you two choices (of buttons) to either Ignore /
> Close or something else entirely?  (Now, you don't see a run on sentence of
> this caliber often, do you?)
>                 I am wondering because this often happens to me when I am
> spending time on pages with lots of graphics, such as stained glass pages..
> I am wondering if "crashing" is happening here or should I be concerned
> about an even worse fate should I select a specific site....
>                 I also would like to ask a stained glass question.... (what
> a concept)
> I am currently working on a panel that is 14" X 19.5" with 135 pieces...
> (lot's of practice with inside curves).  I think that I am going to need to
> reinforce this panel and I do not know how I should go about doing so...  It
> is foil wrapped pieces, not leaded glass.  Do you have a suggestion for me?
> Thanks.
> 
> At 03:50 PM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
> >Hi Mike (Savad) and everybody else,
> >
> >4 inches of snow, but my boiler now repaired (HOORRAYY!!); now
> >fighting off a secondary cold .
> >Mike,I have you now on my Links-page.
> >Mike Peck experienced some problems  getting into Links from other
> >pages than my Front Home page (He is using Netscape 3). My Computer
> >Guru tells me that often when Netscape 3 comes across a complication,
> >it choses to crash rather than dealing with it. Mike Peck found no problem
> >when accessing from Home Page itself. Perhaps worth bearing in
> >mind...
> Barbara J. Snell
> Dept. of Campus Life
> Cornell University
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

it's hard to say without seeing the design. it would depend on how big
the pieces are, how there situated between other pieces, (for example,
if you had a bunch of pieces that formed a straight line, like in a
chess board, that would be weak). if they were staggered, or if there
was a large hunky piece in the middle that would make it stronger. for
my butter fly panel (3'x3') i use strong line reinforcment, and
zig-zaged it here and there. the main thing that's keeping it fairly
stron is the 1/2" border came i have around it, and that 2" oak fram
does'nt hurt either.

what version (if beta?) of netscape do you have? right now i'm using
netscape 3.01 soon i hope to upgrade to 4. my system does'nt crash,
maybe your cache is set to low, or your drive to fragmented to keep up
with the flow of data trying to get on. i would first try to run
something like norton disk doctor, or scandisk (windows version). after
it's found anything to be fixed, then run norton speedisk or disk
defragmentor (windows version), and choose a full optimize. this should
help, also try dumping you cache (netscape). or making the cache in
windows larger. also what windows are you using?

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

Just updated my tip's section...Check it out!!!
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 11 13:25:19 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bbbrrrrr! - no more, instead PPPurrr!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 21:46:14 +0000
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Hi B.J. Snell ( and all)
You wrote:
Good Morning Toby and All from cold upstate NY..
                I would like to ask a question about your reference to
Netscape 3 crashes..   When you say "crash", does that mean that you receive
a dialog box that tells you of an application error and you should save your
work (?) as well as giving you two choices (of buttons) to either Ignore /
Close or something else entirely?  (Now, you don't see a run on sentence of
this caliber often, do you?)
                I am wondering because this often happens to me when I am
spending time on pages with lots of graphics, such as stained glass pages..
I am wondering if "crashing" is happening here or should I be concerned
about an even worse fate should I select a specific site....  
unquote.

Hang on a minute, before anyone or everone panics....
My posting on THIS subject was as half a reply to a direct e-mail 
from Mike Peck who said:
Quote selectively: 
I had problems at you homepage...clicked on arched 
window to get more details... then clicked "Interesting Links"... 
system crashed. Received message that program had performed "illegal 
operation"...have Netscape 3.0 & just upgraded my system to 24 megs.  
....was able to access "Interesting Links" from your homepage, but 
not from "Details".... unquote.
Took Mike's advice and checked with Kris, "Oh Almighty, All-Knowing 
Computer Guru Who Must Be Obeyed". Kris (OAAKCGWMBO) investigated and 
replied as already posted by me, - something like - "When Netscape 3 
encounters a difficult task, it will sometimes chose to crash, rather 
than to tackle the problem. "
Mindful of time and money and telephone costs, I posted my "short-cut 
solution" should this problem appear to other people, or in deed on 
other peoples' pages.
I have just "upgraded" to Netscape 2.01!!!!!
I had sort of heard that there might be a new Netscape 3 "soon".... 
jeezzz.. you guys are already talking about upgrading to Netscape 4 
!!!!!
Sorry! I am miles behind.....(if not centuries!!)  
For me there's got to be a balance tipped in favour of making 
stained glass as opposed to keeping up with computer technology.
As it is, I  have been taken totally "off-guard" of what I already 
have.
Which is one of the reasons I liked Dragonfly's "GlassEye"; they came 
down to my level - rather than the other way round.
When I was employed in industry, I didn't have to worry about 
computer technology ; that was not what I was paid for; I was 
required to leave these details for other people to sort out and deal 
with. Consequently I lost out - on that level. I am only just now 
finding out and feeling my feet.....
End of question one.
QUOTE:
                I also would like to ask a stained glass question.... (what
a concept) 
I am currently working on a panel that is 14" X 19.5" with 135 pieces...
(lot's of practice with inside curves).  I think that I am going to need to
reinforce this panel and I do not know how I should go about doing so...  It
is foil wrapped pieces, not leaded glass.  Do you have a suggestion for me?
Thanks.
UNQUOTE
Applying theory again, this sized panel should NOT  require 
re-inforcement, as it is smaller than the "text-book 
recommendations". Again, WHERE is the final "home" of the panel?
(In a door that is opnened a lot, banged & crashed by children, in a 
side panel, in a top "fan-light" panel; is the household a very 
active one, with a lot of socializing, a lot of parties, a lot of 
coming & going   ?????)
Don't rely on just the edging frame to hold it solid & ridid; it's 
got to be  solid & firm in its own right!!
Mike Savad recommended "strong-line" re-inforcement. I would go along 
with that, IF the panel needs re-inforcing. "Strong-line" is quite 
springy and with copper-foil difficult to contain within/between 
copper-foil.Re-inforce in smallish sections to facilitate greater 
control of how you bend "strongline". Draw up your design properly 
first on cartoon, stand back & look at it and then decide where 
"strong-line" should be used.Cut glass (preferably "back-ground" 
glass) approx. 1.5 mm shorter along your "strongline"  lines, to 
allow space for it. Remember that your "bridge" of soldering line is 
going to be thicker across where the "strong-line" is located; hence 
try to work it into the design itself, so it looks quite natural and 
deliberate....
My tuppence worth....
Elisabeth 'n Toby

At 03:50 PM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Mike (Savad) and everybody else,
>
>4 inches of snow, but my boiler now repaired (HOORRAYY!!); now 
>fighting off a secondary cold .
>Mike,I have you now on my Links-page.
>Mike Peck experienced some problems  getting into Links from other 
>pages than my Front Home page (He is using Netscape 3). My Computer 
>Guru tells me that often when Netscape 3 comes across a complication, 
>it choses to crash rather than dealing with it. Mike Peck found no problem 
>when accessing from Home Page itself. Perhaps worth bearing in 
>mind...
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 11 13:25:25 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Floor Lamp Base  etcetera
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 21:46:14 +0000
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Hi Mary,
Love the idea of a "broom stick" floor lamp, conjures up some 
wonderful images........!!
Whatever else, I certainly made Mike Savad go off with a "bang". 
Wonderful ideas!!! Not perhaps to slavishly copy, but to develop 
further; yet.... I could do worse than actually try out one or two of 
his ideas.....if just for the sake of "playing"....

Have had an e-mail from Kathe McDonald. She is proposing the 
following;
to FIRST come over to UK and join us here (pheww! That took a 
head-ache off my mind), travel with us from UK to France and then 
stay on in France after we have gone back to UK..
Still awaiting her arrival date...

Can't remember if I said to you about East Grindstead and Motherwell.
Motherwell is just southeast of Glasgow in Scotland. You should be 
able to catch a direct train from very close to here to Glasgow (about 4-5 hours by 
train, approximately).  I.e. Avoiding having to go south to London in 
order to travel northg again...Do you want me to start collecting time tables 
(which I can only start doing in March, as that is when they all change 
for the Spring/Summer season here in UK). Anyone you would like me to 
contact???
I do remember telling you at least something about getting to/from 
East Grindstead (about 80 miles south from here, across London). 
Would you like me to try and set up a meeting with anyone there??

Danish "ludefisk" - in Swedish "lutfisk". It's a giant sized member 
of the cod family. It is caught in the summer, split open and boned, 
then stretched and "salt-dried" in the open air on stretcher-frames 
for about 6 months. It is traditioonally eaten on Christmas eve or 
Christmas day. It needs to be soaked in water for about a week 
beforehand, water being changed every 24 hours. In the last couple of 
days the water is replaced with a kind of mustard marinade. Then on 
the day of eating, it needs to be boiled in a particular kind of 
mustard/herb solution. But timing during the cooking process is 
absolutely VITAL and often involves split-seconds. You get it wrong 
and the fish turns out like thick wall paper paste glue (horrible).
What is interesting though is, the Vikings and the "early" 
Scandinavians cooked an awful lot with very exotic spices and herbs, 
none of which ever indigenous to Sweden or Scandinavia, e.g. cinnamon, 
cloves, mustard, cardamom, ginger and so on. 11th- 12th & 13th 
century old recipes in Sweden specifically prescribe many of these 
exotic herbs. I find it quite fascinating...
Sorry, I am rambling...
Take care now
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 11 13:25:25 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: BEETROOT  !!!!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 21:46:15 +0000
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Dear Barbara (Snell) and All,
I love BEETROOTS!! I have them pickled, I have them in casseroles; in 
stews and in Polish , Russian & Swedish "borschts". A I friend of mine 
has just told me that they are fabulous  baked in the oven - as baked 
potatoes. I am now looking for raw, un-peeled beetroots to do 
precisely THAT. ( So all of a sudden there are no raw beet-roots to 
be bought ANYWHERE !!!!)
My own face is rather beetroot-coloured at the moment, so I think 
I'll chop it off and stuff it in the oven......
I think it's more commonly known as a "blush"; I have one left ear 
and one right ear; stretching from one to the other is a very 
beetroot "blush"....
Ahhemm.. Arghh. Ahemmm  ...
.....thank you .....

What I learn I gladly share, what I know, I'll gladly share; my 
students are only as good as what I teach them to be. If they turn 
out "better than me", then I have achieved good teaching......

In  this last year, I have received many "direct e-mails" from many of 
you, who have told me about their teachers are "holding out" on them. I 
personally find that "unprofessional", mean, unimaginative and 
selfish.. If there is a talent, sincerity and eagerness to learn,  then 
I am quite happy to give my soul. But I am just as likely to call a 
spade a shovel and question anything that might smell of  
"insincerity".  I do have to "temper my tongue" (and my wicked sense 
of humour & the absurd...) .
My beetroot colour is my surprise of  that  you feel I have actually 
contributed something to this whole idea of stained glass.
I myself have learnt so much  in this last year  through the open 
and honest exchanges and debates with you all, ; have "had a ball". 
I am only a beginner too, though this  stained glass business has 
been my sole income for the last 10 years or so...
What a great bunch of guys you are....
I can't quite equate you lot with the menu of NYPD tv menu we get fed 
over here......
My one other wish (which I think most of you know by now), is to get 
a much stronger dialogue going between you lot and  us in Europe. We 
have a hell of a lot to teach to and learn from one another.  Martin 
Streng in Holland has given me an idea for another project; a stained 
glass exploration journey in Holland, South Germany, and Austria for 
1998....      Well????!!!!!!......
This trip to Chratres coming up this Easter will be  a catalytic 
venture...
Ahhemm, Argghhh, Ahemmmmm........ Those raw beetroots.....
Elisabeth ('n Toby who is totally oblivious of beetroots...)


<! agree ....  I so look forward to Elisabeth's letters, I enjoy her style,
appreciate her
knowledge and respect her pride and dedication to her art.... 
                 I have made it a point to slow down when I get frustrated
with my lack of skill in cutting glass and soldering especially.  "Seeing"
the piece in my head is the easy part .... getting that vision out into the
world through my hands has been tough.  Elisabeth's pride in her work shines
through to me every time so ... I don't accept less than what I really like
... and I recut, recut, recut.  Thanks to Elisabeth and so many Others of
this list that help me stay focused on this process .....
At 10:41 AM 1/10/97 PST, you wrote:
>Thanks Phil for explaining...that was nice..
>
>April
>vgplugs@primeline.com
>In The Smoky Mountains, Zone 6
>Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass      "Where Gardening Is An Art."
>
>
>
>
>----
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>
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 12 03:22:26 1997
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From: Martin Streng <mstreng@ibm.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: suncatchers (preventing sagging)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:43:00 +0100
Message-ID: <1997Jan12.10430.0>
References: <<199701102156.VAA28764@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Crediet- en Effectenbank
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------2D6862AF36C6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Toby wrote:
> 
> One other thing to be aware of, is that  this "wrap-around-lead" sags
> and parts company with the glass in due course. This process is
> speeded up in heat and sun. The result of these distortions can look
> extremely comical.
> There is a kind of "wrap-around-lead" with an adhesive coating on it
> (rather like copper foil). I first came across it last summer at an
> International Crafts Exhibition I attended. The artist in question
> has made some quite stunning mirror creations using this type of
> lead. I was told it was a brand new product and only manufactured and
> available in Germany. But maybe for you guys "Across the Pond", this
> is already "old hat" and you have had it for yeeaaaars.
> Kind Regards
> Elisabeth 'n Toby

I have learned the following method for preventing sagging: use your
wide (11 millimeters) H-profile lead for the edges, put a thin copper
rod in the outside of the profile and fold the lead around the copper
rod. Apply solder at the corners only.
The copper should bend around the lower corners of your suncatcher. It
thus supports the base of the piece. By bending it in an outwords
directed U-shape at the top corners you also have two hooks for hanging
the piece. 
 
This method also makes it possible to turn a sun-catcher into a window
by simply removing the copper rods.

--------------2D6862AF36C6
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BM>N
!
 !
 

!
 !
 


!
 !
 

--------------2D6862AF36C6--


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From owner-glass Sun Jan 12 10:00:27 1997
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From: George <junkman@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Tacky Wax
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:03:47 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan12.11347.0>
References: <<1997Jan3.83448.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Guitarshop@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hello Tom:
> 
> I will admit up front, that I don't have the as much experience with tacky
> wax as others do.  I have only used it once in the construction of a 20"
> dragonfly.  I painted a THIN layer of wax all over the mould.  I also used
> Oddossey's suggestion and soldered a few wire "handles" around the bottom of
> the shade.  When the shade was finished soldered, I placed it in the back of
> my car (with newspapers underneath) for about 4 hours.  This was done in the
> summer time, so I guestimated the temperature inside the car was about 140
> degrees.  Once the wax had softened, I was able to easily remove the shade
> using the aforementioned handles to lift the shade from the form.  I used a
> hair dryer and an old credit card (probably the safest use of a credit card
> <BG>) to remove the wax from the form.  I also used the hair dryer to help
> remove the bulk of the wax that was left on the shade.  I then used C.J.'s
> flux remover to get the rest of the wax off of the glass, followed by several
> scrubbings with common liquid dish soap to finish up.
> 
> I know that this information is probably redundant.  I guess that I just
> wanted you to know that it can be done.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Michael & Donna McGrew
> Shattered Images Studio
> Houston,TX.
> 
> http://members.aol.com/Guitarshop
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glasswhen i have used tacky wax, i heated it in a little simmer pot and just 
coated the back of the piece that i was attaching to the form, i just 
applied a little wax, if the piece maintained any wax after i was done, 
i took some lighter fluid on a cloth and wiped it down- after patining 
it though.
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 12 11:20:05 1997
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From: fstryczek@juno.com (Frank M. Stryczek, Jr.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Floor Lamp Base
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:16:52 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan12.191652.0>
References: <<1997Jan9.17226.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

James:

I've built a few lamp shades needing floor lamp bases, and I've obtained
my bases by hunting through flea markets, garage sales, etc. for antique
bases.  Most are in poor condition and need replating and re-wiring. 
I've found a shop in Chicago that specializes in replating and selling
restored antique lighting fixtures of all kinds, including floor lamp
bases.  The shop is: Brass Works, Inc., 2142 North Halsted St., Chicago,
IL  60614.  Phone: 312-935-1800. 

Best wishes,

Frank Stryczek, Jr. 
On Thu, 09 Jan 1997 22:22:06 -0500 "James R. Laws"
<jrlaws@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>I have been trying to find a lamp base for a considerable period of 
>time.  I am looking for a floor lamp base.  Every catalog I find has 
>the 
>same two bases or three basis in a Tiffany style.  When I look at 
>regular bases, they all look like they are for a Tiffany lamps.  I am 
>looking for a simple, modern base.  Does anyone know where I can find 
>a 
>source for other types of bases.  
>
>I am also curious why all of the catalogs believe that the only type 
>of 
>lanp anyone would ever want to make is a Tiffany.  They seem to lack 
>imagination in this area.
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 12 15:53:17 1997
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:48:44 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970105164444.27c72a28@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have tried several times to access the webcom address below, and am told
that the address is wrong.. any ideas???  Meg

At 04:13 AM 1/10/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Check out www.webcom.com/pub/z4murray/main/matclock.mcc
>
>It's full of resources regarding clocks.
>
>Or The American Clockmaker has a toll free number 800-236-7300 ..... call
>for the latest catalogue.
>
>
>
>At 08:10 PM 1/10/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>I've been looking through the catalogs I can find (I'm still straightening
>>up from the before Christmas madhouse - but that's another story), and I
>>can't find anyone who carries the "bezel clocks".   Those are the clocks
>>that are round and self-contained and generally run on a watch battery
>>or AAA battery.  I've seen them in stained glass and in wood, etc., so
>>there must be a reasonable source.  Any ideas?
>>Thanks.
>>And the weekend comes not a minute too soon!
>>
>>--
>>Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
>>UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
>>HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>Mike Peck
>Summit Stained Glass
>
>----
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>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 12 18:23:59 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: news stuff on page
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:19:23 -0500
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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in case anyone wants to know i just updated my page. just got up the
tip's section, mold making, etc.

Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 12 19:10:53 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vjcn9-0000S9a; Sun, 12 Jan 97 19:10 PST
X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: news stuff on page
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:34:04 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan12.12344.0>
References: <<1997Jan12.161923.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> in case anyone wants to know i just updated my page. just got up the
> tip's section, mold making, etc.
> 
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi Mike,
	I'm deep in the midst of designing that large window (the 19"h X 
65"w) and decided to take a break.  I've had lots of great tips and 
terrific help from you and others.  Now it's a matter of DOING it.
	I took time out and peeked at your page and, as usual, I ended 
up drooling and appreciative.  Your tips are well thought out and 
written as if for "Stained Glass for Dummies."  That's great, because 
not all of us know all that you know.  (I need some lessons on sentence 
structure!)
	Nice job, Mike.  I look forward to checking in at your page from 
time to time.  T. in Montana
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 04:40:33 1997
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: news stuff on page
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:42:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan13.2425.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mike, Good job. As I was watching a car dealer who gave his web address on 
tv this am I thought what a waste of web space. No one should be allowed to 
take up space unless they have something informative to say, like Mike. 
You've done it again. Dazzled us with you glass work and brought it all 
down to earth with helpful hints. Thanks, I just peeked. I'll read it all 
at lunch today.


Linda Campbell
"It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission." Grace Hopper


in case anyone wants to know i just updated my page. just got up the
tip's section, mold making, etc.

Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141


---Mike Savad

--
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 05:53:29 1997
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X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date:         Mon, 13 Jan 97 08:49:37 EST
Message-ID:   <970113.085314.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thank you for all the ideas on finding the clocks I need.  (I half see
this clock in my brain, you see.)  It masy be a month or two down the road
before I actually get around to it, but, heh, I just took down most of
the Christmas decorations.  Just need to pack up the stained glass
wreaths and angels.  I'm not procrastinating TOO much.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 06:56:38 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: news stuff on page
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:51:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan13.45155.0>
References: <<1997Jan13.2425.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Mike, Good job. As I was watching a car dealer who gave his web address on
> tv this am I thought what a waste of web space. No one should be allowed to
> take up space unless they have something informative to say, like Mike.
> You've done it again. Dazzled us with you glass work and brought it all
> down to earth with helpful hints. Thanks, I just peeked. I'll read it all
> at lunch today.
> 
> Linda Campbell
> "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission." Grace Hopper
> 
> in case anyone wants to know i just updated my page. just got up the
> tip's section, mold making, etc.
> 
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah basically i figure if you going to have a space it might as well
have some usefull information on it. i've seen alot of personal
homepages, that have nothing at all to say. it goes something like this:
"i my name is bob, i eat waffles, and this is speckles my cat", and
that's the whole page. or there's the pages where people think there
doing the in thing, by mixing in everything that slows down a page.
like  putting unstoppable music in the background, java applets that
dont work, because no one decided to test it before uploading. and of
course there's those gif animations, and commercial banners that connect
to another site so it takes even longer to have it load up. and as far
as those banners are concerned, they're getting worse all the time, the
worst so far was from HP in which it not only had animation, but it made
noises to! very annoying.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 06:56:42 1997
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	id m0vjnoF-0000HYa; Mon, 13 Jan 97 06:56 PST
X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:55:46 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan13.145546.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



Sorry, He was at the former address about two months ago, I just looked him
up again, but has a new address.  try ... www.webcom.com/~z4murray/webftp.shtml



At 11:48 PM 1/12/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I have tried several times to access the webcom address below, and am told
>that the address is wrong.. any ideas???  Meg
>
>At 04:13 AM 1/10/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>>Check out www.webcom.com/pub/z4murray/main/matclock.mcc
>>
>>It's full of resources regarding clocks.
>>
>>Or The American Clockmaker has a toll free number 800-236-7300 ..... call
>>for the latest catalogue.
>>
>>
>>
>>At 08:10 PM 1/10/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>>I've been looking through the catalogs I can find (I'm still straightening
>>>up from the before Christmas madhouse - but that's another story), and I
>>>can't find anyone who carries the "bezel clocks".   Those are the clocks
>>>that are round and self-contained and generally run on a watch battery
>>>or AAA battery.  I've seen them in stained glass and in wood, etc., so
>>>there must be a reasonable source.  Any ideas?
>>>Thanks.
>>>And the weekend comes not a minute too soon!
>>>
>>>--
>>>Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
>>>UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
>>>HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
>>>----
>>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>>
>>Mike Peck
>>Summit Stained Glass
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>
>Richard and Meg LaVal
>apdo. 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>tel: 506 645 5052
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 09:16:10 1997
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	id m0vjpHR-0000Lga; Mon, 13 Jan 97 08:30 PST
X-Path: hiline.net!rgvmuse
From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bbbrrrrr!   and UK "Links"
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:34:06 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan13.4346.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970111100957.27f7c8c2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

B. J. Snell wrote:
> 
> Good Morning Toby and All from cold upstate NY..
>                 I would like to ask a question about your reference to
> Netscape 3 crashes..   When you say "crash", does that mean that you receive
> a dialog box that tells you of an application error and you should save your
> work (?) as well as giving you two choices (of buttons) to either Ignore /
> Close or something else entirely?  (Now, you don't see a run on sentence of
> this caliber often, do you?)
>                 I am wondering because this often happens to me when I am
> spending time on pages with lots of graphics, such as stained glass pages..
> I am wondering if "crashing" is happening here or should I be concerned
> about an even worse fate should I select a specific site....
>                 I also would like to ask a stained glass question.... (what
> a concept)
> I am currently working on a panel that is 14" X 19.5" with 135 pieces...
> (lot's of practice with inside curves).  I think that I am going to need to
> reinforce this panel and I do not know how I should go about doing so...  It
> is foil wrapped pieces, not leaded glass.  Do you have a suggestion for me?
> Thanks.
> 
> At 03:50 PM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
> >Hi Mike (Savad) and everybody else,
> >
> >4 inches of snow, but my boiler now repaired (HOORRAYY!!); now
> >fighting off a secondary cold .
> >Mike,I have you now on my Links-page.
> >Mike Peck experienced some problems  getting into Links from other
> >pages than my Front Home page (He is using Netscape 3). My Computer
> >Guru tells me that often when Netscape 3 comes across a complication,
> >it choses to crash rather than dealing with it. Mike Peck found no problem
> >when accessing from Home Page itself. Perhaps worth bearing in
> >mind...
> Barbara J. Snell
> Dept. of Campus Life
> Cornell University
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
Hi!!  I can answer (I think) about the "crashes".  According to our DP
(data processing ) guys, it's because graphics use and demand a lot of
memory - when the files are open and "holding" so that you can go "back"
and "back" you apparently end up straining its memory component - sort
of maxing it out.  That error window comes up and basically, you're done
with that stuff.  I wish I could say something cogent about your glass
question but I don't have the experience.  Y'all take care and stay warm
- we had freezing rain last night and that's not good for us or our
agriculture here in the Rio Grande Valley.  Linn
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 12:50:54 1997
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	id m0vjtKs-0000nia; Mon, 13 Jan 97 12:50 PST
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: news stuff on page
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:52:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan13.105221.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I don't know how you find time to keep up your web pages and still do glass 
but keep it up.

To save time on the internet while waiting to load those crazy ads a 
whirley-gigs that folks put on their pages, there is a trick that replaces 
every graphic with a little spot that you can click to view if you choose. 
of course this only works on macs so if that's what cha got and you wnat to 
know how to do it let me know and I'll look it up. i can't remember 
everything. :)

Linda Campbell


yeah basically i figure if you going to have a space it might as well
have some usefull information on it. i've seen alot of personal
homepages, that have nothing at all to say. it goes something like this:
"i my name is bob, i eat waffles, and this is speckles my cat", and
that's the whole page. or there's the pages where people think there
doing the in thing, by mixing in everything that slows down a page.
like  putting unstoppable music in the background, java applets that
dont work, because no one decided to test it before uploading. and of
course there's those gif animations, and commercial banners that connect
to another site so it takes even longer to have it load up. and as far
as those banners are concerned, they're getting worse all the time, the
worst so far was from HP in which it not only had animation, but it made
noises to! very annoying.

---Mike Savad

--
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making

----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 12:53:50 1997
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X-Path: uninet.net!mcastle
From: mcastle@uninet.net (Martin Castle)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:54:58 -0500
Message-ID: <v01540b00af00513675bb@[206.137.208.16]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I enjoy hearing what people are doing with glass, but would enjoy it more
if we remember to send email to people's address when answering question or
responding to comments rather that the whole list. That way I don't read
the same stuff four or more times. Thanks


----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 14:38:04 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: news stuff on page
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:32:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan13.123221.0>
References: <<1997Jan13.105221.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> I don't know how you find time to keep up your web pages and still do glass
> but keep it up.
> 
> To save time on the internet while waiting to load those crazy ads a
> whirley-gigs that folks put on their pages, there is a trick that replaces
> every graphic with a little spot that you can click to view if you choose.
> of course this only works on macs so if that's what cha got and you wnat to
> know how to do it let me know and I'll look it up. i can't remember
> everything. :)
> 
> Linda Campbell
> 
> yeah basically i figure if you going to have a space it might as well
> have some usefull information on it. i've seen alot of personal
> homepages, that have nothing at all to say. it goes something like this:
> "i my name is bob, i eat waffles, and this is speckles my cat", and
> that's the whole page. or there's the pages where people think there
> doing the in thing, by mixing in everything that slows down a page.
> like  putting unstoppable music in the background, java applets that
> dont work, because no one decided to test it before uploading. and of
> course there's those gif animations, and commercial banners that connect
> to another site so it takes even longer to have it load up. and as far
> as those banners are concerned, they're getting worse all the time, the
> worst so far was from HP in which it not only had animation, but it made
> noises to! very annoying.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it's done by selecting 'do not load images' in the options.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 14:40:22 1997
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vjv1w-0000Sca; Mon, 13 Jan 97 14:39 PST
X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:34:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan13.123444.0>
References: <<v01540b00af00513675bb@[206.137.208.16]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Martin Castle wrote:
> 
> I enjoy hearing what people are doing with glass, but would enjoy it more
> if we remember to send email to people's address when answering question or
> responding to comments rather that the whole list. That way I don't read
> the same stuff four or more times. Thanks
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

but that's the point of this group, in which that eveyone see's the
answer. some people may not ask the question, but lurkers may want to
hear the answer.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 15:53:23 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vjwBW-0000fGa; Mon, 13 Jan 97 15:52 PST
X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn
From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: clocks
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:47:38 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan13.184738.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

I have a catalog from Klockit give them a try at 1-800-556-2548  or
http://www.klockit.com      hopes this helps have a good night
Walter
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 18:06:32 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vjyFE-0000XYa; Mon, 13 Jan 97 18:04 PST
X-Path: nethawk.com!1091
From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: San Diego
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 97 18:04 PST
Message-ID: <v01530507af00544ff330@[206.97.200.63]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
        I am going to San Diego tomorrow night for 5 days.  Does anyone
know if there are special stained glass places I should visit?  Thanks.

Sue
1091@nethawk.com





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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 21:20:27 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: news stuff on page
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:42:59 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan13.144259.0>
References: <<1997Jan13.45155.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Linda Campbell wrote:
> >
> > Mike, Good job. As I was watching a car dealer who gave his web address on
> > tv this am I thought what a waste of web space. No one should be allowed to
> > take up space unless they have something informative to say, like Mike.
> > You've done it again. Dazzled us with you glass work and brought it all
> > down to earth with helpful hints. Thanks, I just peeked. I'll read it all
> > at lunch today.
> >
> > Linda Campbell
> > "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission." Grace Hopper
> >
> > in case anyone wants to know i just updated my page. just got up the
> > tip's section, mold making, etc.
> >
> > Mike's Stained Glass
> > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> >
> > ---Mike Savad
> >
> > --
> > Mike's Stained Glass
> > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> >
> > New Pages Added:
> >
> >  - More Tips and Techniques
> >  - How to Fix Mistakes
> >  - The History of My Shop
> >  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> yeah basically i figure if you going to have a space it might as well
> have some usefull information on it. i've seen alot of personal
> homepages, that have nothing at all to say. it goes something like this:
> "i my name is bob, i eat waffles, and this is speckles my cat", and
> that's the whole page. or there's the pages where people think there
> doing the in thing, by mixing in everything that slows down a page.
> like  putting unstoppable music in the background, java applets that
> dont work, because no one decided to test it before uploading. and of
> course there's those gif animations, and commercial banners that connect
> to another site so it takes even longer to have it load up. and as far
> as those banners are concerned, they're getting worse all the time, the
> worst so far was from HP in which it not only had animation, but it made
> noises to! very annoying.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi Mike,
	Whine, whine, whine.  Just kidding.  You make some good points. 
 T. in Monana
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 21:52:15 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: San Diego
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:59:21 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan13.185921.0>
References: <<v01530507af00544ff330@[206.97.200.63]>>
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Precedence: bulk



On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Sue Eiszler wrote:

> Hi All,
>         I am going to San Diego tomorrow night for 5 days.  Does anyone
> know if there are special stained glass places I should visit?  Thanks.
> 
> Sue
> 1091@nethawk.com


Ah, Sue, can youmake it to Rosarito Beach? Not very far into Mexico, stop
by the RB Hotel and visit the famous mural over the entrance. Then break
your heart at the mercado, where there are a number of aritisans turning
out well crafted panesl, lamps, you name it. Granted the desings are
geared to the tourist trade, but watch these guys working. They do
beautiful finish work, and sad to say, way too cheap. 

How are you on hot glass? Back in San Diego, in old town, there isa hot
glass shop that does gorgeous work... can't remember the name of it...


Let us know what else you discover, I can't wait to go back.



Mary



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From owner-glass Mon Jan 13 22:03:38 1997
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From: LByrne21@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:02:57 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan13.20257.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Thank you Mike for your reply to Martin Castle on answering questions to all.
 I am a genuine lurker who enjoys looking in on all you folks exchanging
ideas.  Have oohed and ahhed on your web page,giggled with Elizabeth and Toby
and have learned many interesting tidbits from all on stained glass. (Have
been doing SG  myself for about 5 years). Please continue the exchanges and
know that we, who are lucking around, really appreciate the knowlege you are
all imparting.

                       Sincerely, Lavergne
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 14 01:23:30 1997
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X-Path: crosfield.co.uk!jc
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:23:16 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <9701140923.AA07971@crosfield.co.uk>
References: <<v01540b00af00513675bb@[206.137.208.16]>>
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Precedence: bulk

> 
> I enjoy hearing what people are doing with glass, but would enjoy it more
> if we remember to send email to people's address when answering question or
> responding to comments rather that the whole list.

But that's the *point* of a mailing list - if it was just questions, it
wouldn't be very interesting; by sharing answers, other people who're also
curious learn too - and it can spark more discussion between people who
already know some of the answers - maybe there are better ways, or things to
watch out for, or alternatives, or bits they have trouble with, or whatever.

> That way I don't read
> the same stuff four or more times.

That's something that we can all work at - when replying to something, it
*really* helps to trim the quoted sections down; Usually, all you need to keep
are the relevant bits to put the reply in context, rather than the whole
of the original message - sometimes (as here) that still ends up as a
large chunk of the original, but often you can trim most of the message
and still make the context clear - which makes things much easier to read,
and  avoids the hassle of hunting for the new bits.

-Jerry

-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 14 03:33:08 1997
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From: 1091@nethawk.com (Sue Eiszler)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: San Diego
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 03:32 PST
Message-ID: <v01530500af00d99706c1@[206.97.200.63]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks, Mary.  I'll give a full report <g> when I get back.
>
>Let us know what else you discover, I can't wait to go back.
>
>
>
>Mary

Sue
1091@nethawk.com





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From owner-glass Tue Jan 14 03:59:33 1997
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From: Martin Streng <mstreng@ibm.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:52:39 +0100
Message-ID: <1997Jan14.135239.0>
References: <<9701140923.AA07971@crosfield.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Crediet- en Effectenbank
Precedence: bulk

Jerry Cullingford wrote:
> 
> That's something that we can all work at - when replying to something, it
> *really* helps to trim the quoted sections down; Usually, all you need to keep
> are the relevant bits to put the reply in context, rather than the whole
> of the original message 

I think it also helps to make the Subject-field as clear as possible.
When you address a new topic do it in a seperate mail with a
corresponding subject. 

Greetings, Martin Streng

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 14 07:15:48 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:08:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan14.5835.0>
References: <<1997Jan13.20257.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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LByrne21@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Thank you Mike for your reply to Martin Castle on answering questions to all.
>  I am a genuine lurker who enjoys looking in on all you folks exchanging
> ideas.  Have oohed and ahhed on your web page,giggled with Elizabeth and Toby
> and have learned many interesting tidbits from all on stained glass. (Have
> been doing SG  myself for about 5 years). Please continue the exchanges and
> know that we, who are lucking around, really appreciate the knowlege you are
> all imparting.
> 
>                        Sincerely, Lavergne
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

welp i really never planned to stop, the only real ligitimate reason why
i would ever post privatly, would be, if i had to post my phone number,
my address, or something way off the topic.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 14 07:21:21 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:14:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan14.51433.0>
References: <<1997Jan14.135239.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Martin Streng wrote:
> 
> Jerry Cullingford wrote:
> >
> > That's something that we can all work at - when replying to something, it
> > *really* helps to trim the quoted sections down; Usually, all you need to keep
> > are the relevant bits to put the reply in context, rather than the whole
> > of the original message
> 
> I think it also helps to make the Subject-field as clear as possible.
> When you address a new topic do it in a seperate mail with a
> corresponding subject.
> 
> Greetings, Martin Streng
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

sometimes, though when you do that it becomes a new message, and if
people are saving those messages, it's nice to have a chain of the
letters in your box. a better way, may be to, keep the original subject
but put a dash or something after it with the new subject/topic if it's
realted but different. if that makes any sense that is... :)


---Mike Savad



-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 14 18:34:46 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 02:54:55 +0000
Message-ID: <199701150233.CAA22619@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi all,
 Thank you  Lavergne, for kind comments.   :-)
Otherwise, totally agree with Mike (Savad), who said:
QUOTE
welp i really never planned to stop, the only real ligitimate reason why
i would ever post privatly, would be, if i had to post my phone number,
my address, or something way off the topic.
UNQUOTE

P.S. Mike, In my "computer nerd's dictionary", have not been able to 
find what the abbreviation "welp" stands for....? Toby's suggestion 
doesn't help either, because I tell him he's forgotten the "h"....
???
Elisabeth 'n Toby

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 14 18:34:47 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 02:54:55 +0000
Message-ID: <199701150233.CAA22630@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
I agree with Jerry's comments. Would it help if we agreed on some 
very loose kind of format?  E.g. our own reply to a reply, to a reply 
was put at the top, rather than at the bottom, then  it's easier to  
see the latest comment (rather than searching out for the one-liner 
hidden at the bottom somewhere...) and then chose to scroll down for 
previous in-put, if we need a "refresher"...
I have done it here.

QUOTE
> That way I don't read
> the same stuff four or more times.
Jerry replied:
That's something that we can all work at - when replying to something, it
*really* helps to trim the quoted sections down; Usually, all you need to keep
are the relevant bits to put the reply in context, rather than the whole
of the original message - sometimes (as here) that still ends up as a
large chunk of the original, but often you can trim most of the message
and still make the context clear - which makes things much easier to read,
and  avoids the hassle of hunting for the new bits. UNQUOTE


Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 14 18:34:48 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: UK "Links"
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 02:54:55 +0000
Message-ID: <199701150233.CAA22626@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Dear Martin,
Will reply direct to you. Think I told you that I am planning visit 
to Holland (Courtesy of "Air Miles"...)
Love the idea of a "turtle window" Sounds absolutely delightful. Hang 
on to the drawings and make sure you get some good photographs...

Keep the ideas of stained glass visits in Europe coming... , 
please.... It is a great idea. I would absolutely love to get a real 
flow of people and a Cross-Continental exchange of stained glass 
people going. This Trip to Chartres is a FIRST.  The programme is 
fairly tight - but it is an "ice-breaker". AND AS OF TODAY , IT IS   
H A P P E N I N I N G  !!!
So far, there are 4 people from USA coming over to join us here in 
the UK. Every single one of them will become a family member in 
either my own cottage , that of  friends of mine in this village OR 
friends at the College who is helping me with this trip and where I 
teach. (No Hilton Hotel for you lot!! - but then - neither Hilton 
Hotel hotel bills....)
We Stained Glass People ain't rich, some are down-right bloody poor. 
Somehow or another I believe in crazy ideas of helping each other to 
facilitating the unthinkable. That is how this whole "pipe-dream" of 
Chartres came about......

Something else, in our wildest "nioghtmares" of getting thiis project 
off the ground, one thing that motivated me and Judy Robinson was the 
ONE thought - hey the Americans want to come - We GOT to, just GOT to 
get this off the ground.... (OK, OK,!! we still have to BE there - 
but if have got this far - the rest is surely a child's play!!! With 
the good-will of absolutely everybody concerned, we should all have a 
ball!!)
Which is where other ideas, new plans start to creep in.... A visit 
to Gouda in Holland; a visit to South Germany, perhaps a visit to 
 the "World's Oldest Surviving Stained Glass Panel" - I think it 
is in Augsburg Cathedral in Germany... I think..). What about Poland 
(Greg? Are you still with us??)
I have had quite a few direct e-mails of enthusiastic inputs "Hey, 
Elisabeth, how about visiting X, Y, Z; it's out of this world, it's 
fabulous, it's unbelievable and so on". There are an awful lot of 
people "lurking" out there, they are very quiet. But - OH!! they are 
watching every move we make and every word we say....

The Chartres visit will for me be the first kind of "blue-print" in 
how we can work things out to start an exchange that is truly 
"international",  where somehow or another we - between us - overcome 
financial obstacles to get together, learn, have fun, exchange ideas 
and teach each other - get drunk and silly together and look after each 
other.

I would love to see more Europeans come "out of the closet" to join 
us openly. It's kind of loneley here ( apart from Martin, Jerry and 
Greg)
Jerry and I STILL haven't met up and we live less than 20 miles 
apart....
A trip to Gouda (OHHHH .... and Gouda CHEESE !!!!, SLURP!! Yummie!!)
I think, we might have  a very interseting potentials of "things to 
come"
No Hurry, No Sweat, No Pressure. 
What do you guys think "Across the Pond"... ??? Just chew it over and 
 "sound out" again in 6 months or so.....
QUOTE
Toby wrote:
> 
> A tip, specially aimed at YOU GUYS joining me here in UK for the
> CHARTRES TRIP if you are interested in local/regional UK history to
Hi Elisabeth,
long time no write, but too busy ice-skating, working, holidays and of
course building windows. Just completed a bedroom-door window (violets)
and started on a turtle-window for a new-born. Made a rather large
design for my parents-in-law. 

About those yanks visiting Europe: ever thought of making a side-tour to
Gouda in Holland to visit the Sint-Jans Kerk (Church of Saint John).
Beautiful windows by the Crabeth brothers. Gouda is also a nice little
town to visit. If you like i can scan some window-examples and mail them
to you. Getting your mail could take some time then though...
UNQUOTE

Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 14 18:52:22 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:46:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan14.164645.0>
References: <<199701150233.CAA22619@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>  Thank you  Lavergne, for kind comments.   :-)
> Otherwise, totally agree with Mike (Savad), who said:
> QUOTE
> welp i really never planned to stop, the only real ligitimate reason why
> i would ever post privatly, would be, if i had to post my phone number,
> my address, or something way off the topic.
> UNQUOTE
> 
> P.S. Mike, In my "computer nerd's dictionary", have not been able to
> find what the abbreviation "welp" stands for....? Toby's suggestion
> doesn't help either, because I tell him he's forgotten the "h"....
> ???
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 

i guess it's an old american thing, well not that old really, it's just
a relaxed version of "well" or "well, umm", like y'know fer'sure
dude...:)

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 14 19:50:33 1997
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From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: clocks
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:48:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan14.174848.0>
References: <<970110.151423.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

mail wrote:
> 
> I've been looking through the catalogs I can find (I'm still straightening
> up from the before Christmas madhouse - but that's another story), and I
> can't find anyone who carries the "bezel clocks".   Those are the clocks
> that are round and self-contained and generally run on a watch battery
> or AAA battery.  I've seen them in stained glass and in wood, etc., so
> there must be a reasonable source.  Any ideas?
> Thanks.
> And the weekend comes not a minute too soon!
> 
> --
> Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
> UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
> HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
We carry German bezel clocks. They are 5-1/8" in diameter. Solid brass,
diamond cut bezel that is hinged for easy opening. There is an 8mm
center hole and a set of brass hands are included. Catalog numbers are:
3809-201 for the Roman face and 3809-203 for the Arabic face. Prices
are: 1/14.95   6/$13.75   12/$12.90. Please let me know if you need any
other information. If you would like to call us our numbers are:

1-800-523-4242
Fax: 1-800-523-5012

Hope to hear from you soon!
Elenie
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 02:41:01 1997
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From: "Tomasz Bielinski" <witraze@qdnet.pl>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: UK "Links"
Summary: Authenticated sender is <witraze@post.qdnet.pl>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:26:51 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan14.122651.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> What about Poland 
> (Greg? Are you still with us??)
Hello ,
I am not Greg, but I'm from Poland. See our Home Page (It is under 
construction now, so there are not many info there, but soon it will 
be completed). 
Your idea of visiting stained glass sites all around the world is 
great.
 So if you plan to visit Poland someday you are welcome. 
Me and our colleagues are ready to help in organizing trip around 
interesting stained glass sites in Poland.
  
==========================================
Tomasz Bielinski

       WITRAZE s.c.
STAINED & ARCHITECTURAL GLASS

e-mail:       witraze@qdnet.pl
http://www2.gol.com/users/kropka/witraze/intro-e.html

tel/fax:      48 22 150417
tel (private):48 22 6126205
=============================================
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 05:50:59 1997
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X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      More clocks
Date:         Wed, 15 Jan 97 08:41:46 EST
Message-ID:   <970115.085044.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well, I have ordered a couple of catalogs from places that were
suggested to me in response to my search for bezel clocks.  According to
the homepage of Woodcraft, they have bezel clocks for $12.99 each, $9.99
for purchases of 5 or more.(By the way, people investigating making their
own lamp bases might be interested in their Hollowood Veneered Tubes.
There might be possibilities there.  Look at:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/pages/124540.htm
I also looked at the Klockit pages and they show a bezeled clock for $7.95
each.
Just bought a scroll saw, and once I learn to use that, I see some
interesting possibilities combining wood and clocks and glass!

Thanks everyone.
Dorothy

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 10:04:41 1997
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From: Tomi Reneau <reneau@fls.infi.net>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Irish  glass
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:07:13 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.8713.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: InfiNet
Precedence: bulk

Am planning a trip to Ireland in June.  Any suggestions on stained glass
places to visit?  Plan to photograph as much as possible.
Thanks.
Tomi Reneau
reneau@fls.infi.net
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 10:24:16 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Lamp Vase Cap - Patina Black
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:25:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.82550.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Is there an easy way to get a very large (8" x 4" for a Prairie lamp) 
bright brass lamp vase cap the color of black patina? Do I have tin the 
thing and then patina it or is there another process to get the antique 
look? If I do have to tin it, how do you get the thing hot enough to take 
the solder? Can I flux it and dip it in a pot of melted lead?

Thanks for the help.

Linda

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"Z=D`
`
end

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 10:26:52 1997
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X-Path: CapAccess.org!rejones
From: "Robert E. Jones" <rejones@CapAccess.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:29:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.82948.0>
References: <<v01540b00af00513675bb@[206.137.208.16]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Martin Castle wrote:

> I enjoy hearing what people are doing with glass, but would enjoy it more
> if we remember to send email to people's address when answering question or
> responding to comments rather that the whole list. That way I don't read
> the same stuff four or more times. Thanks

I tend to disagree.  I am a lurker, unless I have a question.  I am 
relatively new to stained glass and can not impart great wisdom, so I 
keep my mouth shut.  I am learning from the replies to other questions.  
That is the main reason I subscribe to this mailing list.

I do feel that, by and large, people on this list quote and requote 
intirely too much.  I have seen messages that are including almost the 
entire thread.  (Once saw four carrotts in front of lines.)

We should quote only what is needed.  Especially the footer for the 
mailing list.  I can find it used it at least twice in most messages. 

Just my 2 cents worth.

Thank

Bob

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 11:33:35 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lamp Vase Cap - Patina Black
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:33:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970115143358.264f3c8c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Yes, you do have to tin the cap.... and you can do so with two (or more)
irons, and then apply patina.

At 01:25 PM 1/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Is there an easy way to get a very large (8" x 4" for a Prairie lamp) 
>bright brass lamp vase cap the color of black patina? Do I have tin the 
>thing and then patina it or is there another process to get the antique 
>look? If I do have to tin it, how do you get the thing hot enough to take 
>the solder? Can I flux it and dip it in a pot of melted lead?
>
>Thanks for the help.
>
>Linda
>
>
>Attachment Converted: C:\MSOFFICE\WINWORD\JANSENS\PERSONEL\WINMAIL.DAT
>
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>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Jansen's Dining, Cornell University
255-5960
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 12:19:30 1997
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From: nancy lynberg <cavu7@atl.mindspring.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Spectrum Web Site
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:51:18 -0500
Message-ID: <199701152018.PAA45210@mule1.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Is anyone other than myself experiencing problems viewing the Spectrum site?
I have the latest version of netscape and thought that might fix the problem
but NO!  Try to view one of the areas within the site and it seems that the
computer locks up.  Can't Stop, go back, etc.  Could be my computer dumbness
but any suggestions would certainly be appreciated as I have heard this is a
worthwhile area to explore.  Thanks

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 13:25:59 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Gatewayed mail message
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:31:21 +0000
Message-ID: <199701152125.QAA00438@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>We should quote only what is needed.  Especially the footer for the 
>mailing list.  I can find it used it at least twice in most messages. 
>Just my 2 cents worth.

Good luck on this. I suggested something similar a few months ago and 
got singed pretty badly. Apparently there are a few people who are 
too lazy to do anything more than hit the Reply key.

Not only is it inconsiderate, it's sometimes darned hard to find 
their additional comments at the foot (or top ... or are they in the 
*middle?) of the mess they blithely send off.

Oh, well. You can lead a pig to water, but you can't make him think.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 13:25:59 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: (Fwd) Spectrum Web Site
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:31:21 +0000
Message-ID: <199701152125.QAA00433@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>Is anyone other than myself experiencing problems viewing the Spectrum site?

It's not that it just a busy time of day? The AOL giveaway has 
clogged the internet's arteries pretty bad, you know.  I'm running 
Netscape 3.01 and don't have any access problems on the Spectrum 
site. I'd just try it again if I were you.  Good luck!

Albert



Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 14:31:17 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lamp Vase Cap - Patina Black
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:25:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.122555.0>
References: <<1997Jan15.82550.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Is there an easy way to get a very large (8" x 4" for a Prairie lamp)
> bright brass lamp vase cap the color of black patina? Do I have tin the
> thing and then patina it or is there another process to get the antique
> look? If I do have to tin it, how do you get the thing hot enough to take
> the solder? Can I flux it and dip it in a pot of melted lead?
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Linda
> 
>                    Name: WINMAIL.DAT
>     Part 1.2       Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>                Encoding: x-uuencode
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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you could tin it but it may never get it smooth enough, to do mine i
used a torch, but it was kinda smokey. they do have a brass darkener JAX
makes some i beileve, though it comes out a little splotchy, you would
have to really experiment. but to get it truly black you will have to
tin it somehow.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 14:36:39 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Spectrum Web Site
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:31:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.123119.0>
References: <<199701152018.PAA45210@mule1.mindspring.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

nancy lynberg wrote:
> 
> Is anyone other than myself experiencing problems viewing the Spectrum site?
> I have the latest version of netscape and thought that might fix the problem
> but NO!  Try to view one of the areas within the site and it seems that the
> computer locks up.  Can't Stop, go back, etc.  Could be my computer dumbness
> but any suggestions would certainly be appreciated as I have heard this is a
> worthwhile area to explore.  Thanks
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

it seems to be working ok for me (netscape 3.01) at the bottom of the
screen they mentioned something about bugs, and the image maps their
using.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 14:39:27 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vkdyw-0001BTa; Wed, 15 Jan 97 14:38 PST
X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:33:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.123355.0>
References: <<199701152125.QAA00438@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> >We should quote only what is needed.  Especially the footer for the
> >mailing list.  I can find it used it at least twice in most messages.
> >Just my 2 cents worth.
> 
> Good luck on this. I suggested something similar a few months ago and
> got singed pretty badly. Apparently there are a few people who are
> too lazy to do anything more than hit the Reply key.
> 
> Not only is it inconsiderate, it's sometimes darned hard to find
> their additional comments at the foot (or top ... or are they in the
> *middle?) of the mess they blithely send off.
> 
> Oh, well. You can lead a pig to water, but you can't make him think.
> 
> Albert
> 


well acually it's pretty easy to see the quote if you choose it to be
bold when it's up.

and i thought it was: You can lead a pig to water, but you can't make
him fly.

or was it you can lead a horse to the ocean, but you can't make him
sing.. well who knows... :)

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 15:02:24 1997
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X-Path: monmouth.com!clambert
From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:54:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.125432.0>
References: <<199701152125.QAA00438@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Enchanted Glass
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> >We should quote only what is needed.  Especially the footer for the
> >mailing list.  I can find it used it at least twice in most messages.
> >Just my 2 cents worth.
> 
> Good luck on this. I suggested something similar a few months ago and
> got singed pretty badly. Apparently there are a few people who are
> too lazy to do anything more than hit the Reply key.
> 
>
> 
> Oh, well. You can lead a pig to water, but you can't make him think.
> 
> Albert
> 
For those of us who are computer impaired... sometimes trying to edit
email is like trying to forcast the next virgin birth.  I hope I edited
this one correctly...
CRZKT
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 16:04:51 1997
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X-Path: BACKROADS.NET!bartman
From: Bart Huffman <bartman@BACKROADS.NET>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lamp Vase Cap - Patina Black
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 19:01:48 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.11148.0>
References: <<1997Jan15.82550.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Yes, Linda, you should tin the cap. Then apply patina after attaching it
to the lamp. The key it to use steel wool first to remove any sealant
that may be on the cap. Then apply PLENTY of flux. Set your iron to the
hottest setting and tin the cap. Don't be afraid to reapply flux, you're
going to need it. You may want to let it cool after tinning and flux
again and go back over the whole cap to make the cap smoother. Hope this
helps....

Bartman


Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Is there an easy way to get a very large (8" x 4" for a Prairie lamp)
> bright brass lamp vase cap the color of black patina? Do I have tin the
> thing and then patina it or is there another process to get the antique
> look? If I do have to tin it, how do you get the thing hot enough to take
> the solder? Can I flux it and dip it in a pot of melted lead?
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Linda
> 
>                    Name: WINMAIL.DAT
>     Part 1.2       Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>                Encoding: x-uuencode
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 16:12:42 1997
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: limited time only
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 16:08:22 -0500
Message-ID: <199701160011.QAA18765@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --


I have a few more lamps that will be at the addresses below for a while

http://www.teleport.com/~gnome/lamp

http://www.teleport.com/~gnome/lamp/lamp.htm

comments welcomed....enjoy..........H


--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 16:25:57 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: add a word to see the other lamps
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 16:21:57 -0500
Message-ID: <199701160025.QAA21583@kim.teleport.com>
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

sorry for the mix-up......
http://www.teleport.com/~gnome/oldlamp/htm    this replaces lamp/lamp,
firts address is ok.
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 17:18:54 1997
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X-Path: idirect.com!mrum
From: mrum@idirect.com (mike & carol)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lamp Vase Cap - Patina Black
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:17:55 -0500
Message-ID: <199701160117.UAA06401@nemesis.idirect.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda,
Yes you have to tin the cap, and no its not real easy.  My glass instructor
at Fantasy In Glass Glassworks Toronto used a propane torch to spread the
solder thinly, fluxing frequently then putting on the patina.  Someone else
suggested balancing the cap over something hot, a lamp bulb or a flame and
tinning then patina.

Good luck

>Is there an easy way to get a very large (8" x 4" for a Prairie lamp) 
>bright brass lamp vase cap the color of black patina? Do I have tin the 
>thing and then patina it or is there another process to get the antique 
>look? If I do have to tin it, how do you get the thing hot enough to take 
>the solder? Can I flux it and dip it in a pot of melted lead?
>
>Thanks for the help.
>Linda
*******************************************
Mike and Carol Rumak
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at:
http://web.idirect.com/~studio
*******************************************

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 17:19:23 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: (Fwd) Re: (Fwd) Re: Gatewayed mail message
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:24:22 +0000
Message-ID: <199701160118.UAA04593@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> and i thought it was: You can lead a pig to water, but you can't make
>him fly.

I think it had something to do with horticulture. <s>

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 17:19:26 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: (Fwd) Re: (Fwd) Re: Gatewayed mail message
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:24:22 +0000
Message-ID: <199701160118.UAA04596@ns.computer.net>
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> Oh, well. You can lead a pig to water, but you can't make him think.

Please forgive my tasteless remark.  I shouldn't try to be funny. <s>

> 
>For those of us who are computer impaired... sometimes trying to edit
>email is like trying to forcast the next virgin birth.  

You're doing fine. Myself, I'm trying to get a whole 'nuther email 
package to work. I've thrown in the towel on Compuserve, which was 
costing me $180/month in telephone charges because the 
nearest/cheapest connect line was a toll call away. They must be 
getting desperate, though; they offered to put in a more local line, 
but I'd already replaced my email address in over 250 web pages and 
wasn't about to go through *that again.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 17:38:40 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "Old" questions
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:38:03 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.15383.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

One other thing to mention, is that new people are joining the group all the
time.  Even if a topic was discussed last month, the new people might be
interested in the answer.  I think it's great we have such a caring group who
take time to share with others.  Those who are uninterested can just move on
to the next piece of mail.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 17:39:34 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: welp
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:39:00 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.15390.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-01-14 10:49:53 EST, you write:

<< welp i really never planned to stop >>
I've seen you type this a couple times and I thought it was just a typo but
maybe not.    What does "welp" mean?  Barbara
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 17:56:05 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:pigs
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:55:33 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.155533.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-01-15 16:28:24 EST, you write:

<< Oh, well. You can lead a pig to water, but you can't make him think.
  >>

Another one I like - Regarding teaching a pig to sing - it's a waste of time
and it irritates the pig.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 18:11:58 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: welp
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 21:06:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.16619.0>
References: <<1997Jan15.15390.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-01-14 10:49:53 EST, you write:
> 
> << welp i really never planned to stop >>
> I've seen you type this a couple times and I thought it was just a typo but
> maybe not.    What does "welp" mean?  Barbara
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

it's like "well, you know" a relaxed version of "well". or like "i
dunno" for " i don't know" it's more causal as if i was talking right in
the room.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 18:16:49 1997
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X-Path: atl.mindspring.com!cavu7
From: Nancy Lynberg <cavu7@atl.mindspring.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Spectrum Web Site
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:48:50 -0500
Message-ID: <199701160216.VAA67996@mule1.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I figured it out!!    YEAH!!! it helps to install the new netscape into the
right directory, (told ya'll i was computer dumb)  but trial and error, it
was a worthwhile sight to visit.  *****Special note to Mike Savad***** I am
amazed at the confusion over "welp"   Mike, keep up the good work, and good
advise you are and asse tot this site.  and well "welp" thats all folks.  

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 18:28:02 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:23:18 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970114023647.1b6fccd4@sol.racsa.co.cr>
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I heartily agree with this!! Meg

At 02:54 AM 1/15/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>I agree with Jerry's comments. Would it help if we agreed on some 
>very loose kind of format?  E.g. our own reply to a reply, to a reply 
>was put at the top, rather than at the bottom, then  it's easier to  
>see the latest comment (rather than searching out for the one-liner 
>hidden at the bottom somewhere...) and then chose to scroll down for 
>previous in-put, if we need a "refresher"...
>I have done it here.
>
>QUOTE
>> That way I don't read
>> the same stuff four or more times.
>Jerry replied:
>That's something that we can all work at - when replying to something, it
>*really* helps to trim the quoted sections down; Usually, all you need to keep
>are the relevant bits to put the reply in context, rather than the whole
>of the original message - sometimes (as here) that still ends up as a
>large chunk of the original, but often you can trim most of the message
>and still make the context clear - which makes things much easier to read,
>and  avoids the hassle of hunting for the new bits. UNQUOTE
>
>
>Elisabeth 'n Toby
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
>
Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 19:29:15 1997
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X-Path: po.cwru.edu!txh4
From: txh4@po.cwru.edu (Theodore P. Hasenstaub)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Beveler
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:28:34 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199701160328.WAA29419@cornelius.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am starting into doing my own bevels and am looking for a used glass
beveling machine. Something on the order of a Denver Glass Studio Beveler.
Anyone have one they want to part with? Or know of someone that does, or
where I could look? Thanks for the help.

Sincerely,

Ted

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 22:02:49 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: add a word to see the other lamps
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:25:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan15.15253.0>
References: <<199701160025.QAA21583@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Hi Elaine & Howard Rubin,
Thanks for giving your address for a look at your lamps.  My, oh my, but 
they are impressive.  Not only the craftsmanship, but the time and 
thought put into the glass and how it fits with the design and overall 
shade shape (a tongue twister?).  Do put a reminder on here every now 
and then with a link to your page so I can take a look at your lamps.  I 
look forward to it and I'm most envious of your abilities.  T. in 
Montana
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 15 23:53:08 1997
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X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz
From: llutz <llutz@tpgi.com.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: snip
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:53:09 +1100
Message-ID: <1997Jan17.5539.0>
References: <<199701152125.QAA00438@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> >We should quote only what is needed.  Especially the footer for the
> >mailing list. 
(snip)
> Albert
Good on ya, Albert(as we say over here- or down here) I thororughly
agree and have trashed some messages without reading. I am also on the
hwg list (web writers guild) and the list guides would be having a quiet
word to anyone that refused to edit. My wife is on three or four lists,
so we get 200 to 300 emails a day. I find it necessary to grab my
messages quickly. Here's hoping a few will agree this time.
Larry from Oz

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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 06:11:28 1997
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lamp Vase Cap - Patina Black
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:09:51 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530500af03e6b54151@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

It takes some practice, but I have had some luck using a small propane
torch on large caps. I'm talking about the types of torches you buy in a
hardware store to use in soldering copper tubing/pipe together. The flame
is very hot so don't hold one portion of the cap over the flame for very
long.

Like I said, it takes some practice, but you can achieve an even coat of solder.

=Gary



>Yes, Linda, you should tin the cap. Then apply patina after attaching it
>to the lamp. The key it to use steel wool first to remove any sealant
>that may be on the cap. Then apply PLENTY of flux. Set your iron to the
>hottest setting and tin the cap. Don't be afraid to reapply flux, you're
>going to need it. You may want to let it cool after tinning and flux
>again and go back over the whole cap to make the cap smoother. Hope this
>helps....
>
>Bartman
>
>
>Linda Campbell wrote:
>>
>> Is there an easy way to get a very large (8" x 4" for a Prairie lamp)
>> bright brass lamp vase cap the color of black patina? Do I have tin the
>> thing and then patina it or is there another process to get the antique
>> look? If I do have to tin it, how do you get the thing hot enough to take
>> the solder? Can I flux it and dip it in a pot of melted lead?
>>
>> Thanks for the help.
>>
>> Linda
>>
>>                    Name: WINMAIL.DAT
>>     Part 1.2       Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>>                Encoding: x-uuencode
>>
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 06:49:08 1997
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X-Path: uninet.net!mcastle
From: mcastle@uninet.net (Martin Castle)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Patterns Wanted
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:50:18 -0500
Message-ID: <v01540b00af03effe39c1@[206.137.208.25]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am looking for a pattern for a client that would like to have a panel
made with a picture of a steam engine. The panel would be 18"h by 24 to 30"
in width. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please respond to
mcastle@uninet.net not the whole listserve thanks

Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941

207 382 6207                  207 382 6207

Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
Islesboro Central School      Unity College
PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
Islesboro Maine 04848

207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220

207 734 8159 Fax

email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net









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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 08:13:32 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Beveler
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:08:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan16.686.0>
References: <<199701160328.WAA29419@cornelius.INS.CWRU.Edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Theodore P. Hasenstaub wrote:
> 
> I am starting into doing my own bevels and am looking for a used glass
> beveling machine. Something on the order of a Denver Glass Studio Beveler.
> Anyone have one they want to part with? Or know of someone that does, or
> where I could look? Thanks for the help.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Ted
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

there's some guy on the glass news group that's trying to sell, there
big and heavy, and he's from florida. try looking it up in dejanews or
something.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 10:36:40 1997
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From: mcastle@uninet.net (Martin Castle)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Band Saw
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:37:47 -0500
Message-ID: <v01540b01af042596c83a@[206.137.208.16]>
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Are there people using Band saw for cutting glass and if so how does it
compare to using a hand cutter. I am now making large windows and what to
know it a band saw would make more sense. Thanks Martin

Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941

207 382 6207                  207 382 6207

Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
Islesboro Central School      Unity College
PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
Islesboro Maine 04848

207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220

207 734 8159 Fax

email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net









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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 10:41:38 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: "Old" questions
Date:         Thu, 16 Jan 97 13:40:38 EST
Message-ID:   <970116.134114.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<1997Jan15.15383.0>>
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There may be old questions, but there are plenty of new insights and
ideas.


      Dorothy

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 12:38:48 1997
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From: ROBERT CRANE <aaa654@thezone.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass Beveler
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:11:37 -0330
Message-ID: <1997Jan16.132337.0>
References: <<199701160328.WAA29419@cornelius.INS.CWRU.Edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Theodore P. Hasenstaub wrote:
> 
> I am starting into doing my own bevels and am looking for a used glass
> beveling machine. Something on the order of a Denver Glass Studio Beveler.
> Anyone have one they want to part with? Or know of someone that does, or
> where I could look? Thanks for the help.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Ted
> If you check the postings from about one year back, there were a number of bevelling machines advertised in north florida-- don't know 
thw namwe, but you can easily find out
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 14:22:51 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:17:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan16.12176.0>
References: <<v01540b01af042596c83a@[206.137.208.16]>>
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Martin Castle wrote:
> 
> Are there people using Band saw for cutting glass and if so how does it
> compare to using a hand cutter. I am now making large windows and what to
> know it a band saw would make more sense. Thanks Martin
> 
> Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
> 135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
> Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941
> 
> 207 382 6207                  207 382 6207
> 
> Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
> Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
> Islesboro Central School      Unity College
> PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
> Islesboro Maine 04848
> 
> 207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220
> 
> 207 734 8159 Fax
> 
> email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

a bandsaw will never replace hand cutting. if you cut alot of brittle
glass, thick uneven ripples, drapery, or impossible cuts, then you
should get it. it's good for inside corner cuts, etc. if you do get a
bandsaw i would go with the ringsaw, it works real well. and besides it
can sometimes be difficult (if not impossible) to cut real large pieces.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 14:51:03 1997
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From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:42:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan16.124238.0>
References: <<1997Jan16.12176.0>>
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Organization: Enchanted Glass
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M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Martin Castle wrote:
> >
> > Are there people using Band saw for cutting glass and if so how does it
> > compare to using a hand cutter. I am now making large windows and what to
> > know it a band saw would make more sense. Thanks Martin
> >
> > 
> a bandsaw will never replace hand cutting. if you cut alot of brittle
> glass, thick uneven ripples, drapery, or impossible cuts, then you
> should get it. it's good for inside corner cuts, etc. if you do get a
> bandsaw i would go with the ringsaw, it works real well. and besides it
> can sometimes be difficult (if not impossible) to cut real large pieces.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
Hand cutting is still the way to go for most of the pieces I work on...
However I love my band saw for those "evil" cuts.  Does this make me a
heretic?
CRZKT
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 16:55:38 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Bbbrrrrr!   and UK "Links"
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:50:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan16.14500.0>
References: <<1997Jan13.4346.0>>
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MAJOR SNIP>

> Hi!!  I can answer (I think) about the "crashes".  According to our DP
> (data processing ) guys, it's because graphics use and demand a lot of
> memory - when the files are open and "holding" so that you can go "back"
> and "back" you apparently end up straining its memory component - sort
> of maxing it out.  That error window comes up and basically, you're done
> with that stuff. 
I have found a patch for Windows that fixes a 'memory leak' - when you
have TCP/IP app running for a while. B-4 I installed it, any time I was
browsing the WEB, after a while my hard drive would work like crazy, and
response would go down hill. I had this using Netscape, AOL, anf GNN
browsers. It seem that when you run out of memory in your cache, the
browser starts using the disk cache. I have had the 'illegal op' problem
a lot more often B-4 the patch.  You can find the patch, among others at
the Microsoft WEB pages. This patch will be at:
http://microsoft.com/windows/software/krnlupd.htm.
there is a bunch of goodies and updates available for FREE. Start at 
http://www.microsoft.com and wander around.
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 17:01:45 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:56:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan16.14563.0>
References: <<1997Jan15.123355.0>>
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> <snip>
> and i thought it was: You can lead a pig to water, but you can't make
> him fly.
> 
> or was it you can lead a horse to the ocean, but you can't make him
> sing.. well who knows... :)
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> or - you can tune a guitar, but you can't tuna fish
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 20:54:07 1997
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From: ScottSGN@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: snip
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:53:31 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan16.185331.0>
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Albert said:
>>We should quote only what is needed.  Especially the footer for the
>>mailing list.

Larry said:
>I thororughly agree and have trashed some messages without reading.
>Here's hoping a few will agree this time.

I wish I had the time to wade through all the lengthy re-hashed posts on this
list, because some good information is often hidden in there. But I, too, end
up trashing some of the messages which I'm sure I would enjoy reading if I
had the time. 

So... here's one more vote for *EDITING*. I know there are one or two on the
list who have made it clear that they intend to keep wasting everyone else's
time by reprinting every word of every post (and every footer) that came
before theirs.

But if *everyone else* (which I'm hoping is the majority of us) would simply
quote only the relevant sentence(s) when responding, it would make wading
through the bungi mail much less tedious. 

Please, oh please, be considerate. And a big "thank you" to those who already
are.

Scott
Stained Glass News
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 21:00:43 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:23:06 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan16.14236.0>
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Martin Castle wrote:
> 
> Are there people using Band saw for cutting glass and if so how does it
> compare to using a hand cutter. I am now making large windows and what to
> know it a band saw would make more sense. Thanks MartinHi Martin,
	I have a band saw, but only use it for extremely tight inside 
curves.  It's much slower than hand cutting, but does save on wasting 
glass for those jaw-clenching cuts that are otherwise very difficult.  I 
almost always hand cut my glass pieces.  T. in Montana
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 21:08:47 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:08:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan16.19823.0>
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In a message dated 97-01-17 00:01:53 EST, you write:

<< using Band saw for cutting glass  >>

Everyone else has said it - "only use it for tough cuts, hand cutting is
faster" - one other thing I use my ring saw for - actually practically the
only thing I use it for is cutting fused glass.  You really can't cut
multiple fused layers by hand.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 16 21:53:54 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: I agree
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 21:52:50 -0500
Message-ID: <199701170553.VAA03758@kim.teleport.com>
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

editing and selective posting.....where have I heard it before????

YES.....YES....YES....
enjoy............H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 04:12:12 1997
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From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: snip
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:11:38 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970117071231.25f7c2c2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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Hello list ....
        I usually delete "run on" messages re: editing, replying techniques
without comment however can't help but note the humor of our most recent
plea for briefness.  
        I hope others are also enjoying the irony of alloting so much time
and attention to being "good editors".   
>
>I wish I had the time to wade through all the lengthy re-hashed posts on this
>list
>
 here's one more vote for *EDITING*.

>But if *everyone else* (which I'm hoping is the majority of us) would simply
>quote only the relevant sentence(s) when responding, 
>
>Scott
>Stained Glass News
>----
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Jansen's Dining, Cornell University
255-5960
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 04:18:59 1997
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From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:18:36 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970117071929.25f78d76@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Inside curves are the worst for me.  I am terrible at IC cutting.  I have
selected projects specifically because they do have a lot of these, so I can
practice, and I still don't do well with them.  I am determined that I will
get better at them.  
        Anyone have any tips that help them with cutting these curves.?

>	I have a band saw, but only use it for extremely tight inside 
>curves.  It's much slower than hand cutting, but does save on wasting 
>glass for those jaw-clenching cuts that are otherwise very difficult.  I 
>almost always hand cut my glass pieces.  T. in Montana
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Jansen's Dining, Cornell University
255-5960
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 05:51:30 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date:         Fri, 17 Jan 97 08:44:27 EST
Message-ID:   <970117.085117.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<2.2.16.19970117071929.25f78d76@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Deep inside curves require a great deal of care and patience.  I do a lot
of scores inside the curve so that I am only breaking out a little at
a time.  For a largish piece in particular I prefer the overlap method
instead of full curves (here's where drawing would help), so that I'm
only dealing with part of the curve at once.
If you are careful, you can often see when the run is starting and nurse
it along from there.
Oh, yeah, score your inside curve first and then the inner scores.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 06:10:28 1997
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From: Martin Streng <mstreng@ibm.net>
To: Mail_groep_glas_in_lood <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Inside curves.
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:56:35 +0100
Message-ID: <1997Jan17.145635.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Crediet- en Effectenbank
Precedence: bulk

You probably know this allready, but i never know..
- heat the glass. Some folks in this group say it works miracles.
- Cut the glass one one side, flip the glass, put it on a hard surface
and hammer the score with the back of your glass cutter. This prevents
the resonance in the rest of the glass. This method works fine with me.
BTW: the surface must be clean! Continuing hammering until the score
gets loose or carefully try to wiggle (is this English?) the glass
loose. 
- scoring and then grinding the glass with your pliers. Slow but
accurate.
- With lead, you can cut a less sharp curve and use the lead to give it
a sharper look.
- redrawing the design. I'm told that sharp inside curves are weak by
nature: the glass tends to break away from the curve at the slightest
pressure (cleaning, wind). 
With lead, you can cut a less sharp curve and use the lead to give it a
sharper look.

Hope this helps.
Martin Streng.


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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 07:36:43 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:31:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan17.53119.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970117071929.25f78d76@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

B J Snell wrote:
> 
> Inside curves are the worst for me.  I am terrible at IC cutting.  I have
> selected projects specifically because they do have a lot of these, so I can
> practice, and I still don't do well with them.  I am determined that I will
> get better at them.
>         Anyone have any tips that help them with cutting these curves.?
> 
> >       I have a band saw, but only use it for extremely tight inside
> >curves.  It's much slower than hand cutting, but does save on wasting
> >glass for those jaw-clenching cuts that are otherwise very difficult.  I
> >almost always hand cut my glass pieces.  T. in Montana
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Barbara J. Snell
> Jansen's Dining, Cornell University
> 255-5960
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

hmm let's see... i can cut an inside curves that are pretty deep. i push
the cutter (instead of pulling), i found i have more control of where
the cuter goes. along with that i use my left hand as a guide: i let the
bony part of my wrist-to hand connection rest on the table, while my
finger rests on the head of the cutter. so when i cut the glass, my
finger guides the head along so it does'nt slip off, at the same time
you've go to be able to move your entire body when cutting it. 

to break the curve out, is of course much more trick, for really deep
cuts, you first have to cut the excess-non-curve portion off. then make
1/4" - 1/2" curved sections inside the curve (these can be all free hand
cuts). then using your breaking pliers (3/8" tip), carefully starting
from one side crack off the first strip of scrap. i found if i tense of
my wrist slightly and pull my hand inward, i can have alot more control
over the glass. then break out the remaining pieces. this technique is
good for anyone who only has the basic stuff.

if you have the ring star pliers, it makes it alot easier, it will break
the glass where you want it to break. however i found if you do get this
one, you'll have to re-learn how to break glass. if you use to much
presure (which is real easy BTW), the glass will shatter. but if you
give it a carefully, light squeeze it works fine. the trick is, you have
to trust that it cracked, then go onto the next section. i used a
12"x12" mirror tile to practice on (so i can see it crack as i go on.)
one of the test i did was: i made a 1/2" line wraping around in one
stroke (with small curves for the corners), a piece that looked like a
giant U. with the tool i was able to break it out easily. along with
that i had no problems breaking out 1/4", 1/8" (some, like clear), etc.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 08:08:08 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:02:35 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan17.16235.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


First thing to do with inside curves is to cut them first.  That way you
have a maximum amount of surface area around the curve which adds strength
to the pane of glass and  ....... "encourages" ..... the break to follow
your score.  Also, if the break takes off in the wrong direction then you
still may have enough of the piece of glass to reposition your pattern and
try again.  Always use a good quality cutter, ie carbide wheel, always score
the inside curve and break it out, don't score the remainder of your pattern
until the inside curve is done, and works best for me to make the score,
then flip the glass over and tap it out from the backside.  Get yourself
some cheap double strength clear plate glass and practice, practice,
practice .......

We also have a bandsaw, but use it only on sharp points or really severe
inside curves, like the "jaw-clenchers" described below.  Like T says, we
also use our hand cutters almost always.


Good Luck,




At 12:18 PM 1/17/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Inside curves are the worst for me.  I am terrible at IC cutting.  I have
>selected projects specifically because they do have a lot of these, so I can
>practice, and I still don't do well with them.  I am determined that I will
>get better at them.  
>        Anyone have any tips that help them with cutting these curves.?
>
>>	I have a band saw, but only use it for extremely tight inside 
>>curves.  It's much slower than hand cutting, but does save on wasting 
>>glass for those jaw-clenching cuts that are otherwise very difficult.  I 
>>almost always hand cut my glass pieces.  T. in Montana
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Barbara J. Snell
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 13:17:28 1997
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X-Path: tpgi.com.au!llutz
From: llutz <llutz@tpgi.com.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 07:55:37 +1100
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.185537.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970117071929.25f78d76@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

B J Snell wrote:
> 
> Inside curves are the worst for me.  I am terrible at IC cutting.  

I cut the piece out with the IC part left in. Then I cut a short way
along the curve & take the cut out to the edge. I use a series of these
cuts. If you imagine taking wedge shaped bits out- each one is an inside
curve in itself but a small one instead of a big one. It works for me.
Larry from Oz


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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 14:46:12 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lamp Vase Cap - Patina Black
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:45:39 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan17.124539.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Re: soldering large caps

I recall my lamp making instructor heating up the
cap with a torch getting some flux/solder on the 
cap and then using a hobby brush to move the 
solder around and tin the cap.

Be careful, it burns the heck out of the hobby brush.
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 14:50:40 1997
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From: mcFrenzy <pristine@gr.cns.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: [Fwd: Re: snip]
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:38:25 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan17.93825.0>
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mcFrenzy wrote:
> 
> ScottSGN@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Albert said:
> > >>We should quote only what is needed. <snip>
> >
> > Larry said:
> > >I thororughly agree <snip>
> >
> > Scott Said:
> > I wish I had the time to wade <snip>
> 
> Me too!
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 15:25:45 1997
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X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz
From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:24:36 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199701172324.RAA04895@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

At 07:18 AM 1/17/97 -0500, B J Snell wrote:
>Inside curves are the worst for me.  I am terrible at IC cutting.  I have
>selected projects specifically because they do have a lot of these, so I can
>practice, and I still don't do well with them.  I am determined that I will
>get better at them.  
>        Anyone have any tips that help them with cutting these curves.?



Okay I'll toss some 


*protect the points first by bisecting as flat a score as you can to your
firt grozing score. I always *clean out * the points first

*the number of concentric scores should be increased in proportion to the
depth and severity of the curve and I always do these first then add the
*relief scores* that intersect 

* some glasses can be *tapped out* with the ball end of a cutter on the
actual score line without any additional scores, it's worth trying if your
doing several repeats or a number of insiders with the same glass

* I use a pulling motion with very little downward action from the pliers
this puts far less stress on the glass then a snaping motion

* as always make sure the wheel is as perpendicular to the glass surface as
possible 


* don't let adrenaline control you, a difficult cut does not mean you have
to apply excessive pressure when you are making the score, use the feel that
you know works 


Len


BTW... do you run in to the same problem consistantly if so let us in on it 

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 15:43:08 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:42:13 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199701172342.RAA05508@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>I cut the piece out with the IC part left in. Then I cut a short way
>along the curve & take the cut out to the edge. I use a series of these
>cuts. If you imagine taking wedge shaped bits out- each one is an inside
>curve in itself but a small one instead of a big one. It works for me.
>Larry from Oz

 Larry, that is an excellent clear and concise description of what I was
trying to say in my mumbo-jumbo sort of way. I believe that this is the most
generally accepted technique for this type of cut.

Len 

  

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 20:06:22 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mea Cupla
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:00:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan17.18033.0>
References: <<1997Jan16.14500.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

First time I ever had to snip myself <snip
shyguy wrote:
> 
> MAJOR SNIP>
> the Microsoft WEB pages. This patch will be at:
> http://microsoft.com/windows/software/krnlupd.htm.
> there is a bunch of goodies and updates available for FREE. Start at
> http://www.microsoft.com and wander around.
SORRY!
I should have checked the URL B-4 I posted. I checked today, and
Microsoft has redone all their pages.
The correct place is - http://www.microsoft.com/windows95/default.asp
Click on the graphic 'advanced updates'
on that page click on 'Kernel32 Update' download to a known dircetory,
log off the net and 'run' it,, a fairly simple install
Once agasin, sorry for the dis-information
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 20:29:58 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:51:55 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan17.135155.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970117071929.25f78d76@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
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Precedence: bulk

B J Snell wrote:
> 
> Inside curves are the worst for me.  I am terrible at IC cutting.  I have
> selected projects specifically because they do have a lot of these, so I can
> practice, and I still don't do well with them.  I am determined that I will
> get better at them.
>         Anyone have any tips that help them with cutting these curves.?

> Barbara J. Snell
> Jansen's Dining, Cornell University
> 255-5960
> bjs10@cornell.edu

Hi Barbara,
	I have three tips for helping with cutting inside curves.  It's 
the same way you get to Carnegie Hall -- practice, practice, practice.  
Seriously, though, it does take practice.  Warm glass helps, a clean and 
perfectly flat working surface, cutting your curve in several cuts that 
are fairly close together, with each succesive cut going slightly deeper 
until you reach your desired curve.  Then very careful breaking along 
the scores, and then -- -- h o l d   your breath.  T. in Montana
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 17 22:49:51 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: band saw
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 22:48:16 -0500
Message-ID: <199701180649.WAA20383@kim.teleport.com>
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --


Hi all, Howard here....what I have NOT noticed was anyone extolling on the
virtues of the CORRECT pliers to assist or EVEN (sheer heresey) use instead
of a saw.....

Even in my limited experience, I cannot see the need for one for myself, as
multiple repeat pieces in a lamp that HAVE to be color phased and matched,
first have to be cut into little pieces and from selected areas of the sheet
as well.

Back to the pliers....I have a combo breaker and grozier (called fish lips)
with no teeth...with scoring into the inside curve and careful grozing, I
have found most curves do indeed come out well. If there are small pieces
with deep inside curves I use a second pair of non-toothed pliers to hold
the glass. 

I HIGHLY recommend them above all other kinds of pliers, and one pair does
do the job of both breakers and groziers.....

Now for the sell.........small item, and I can sell them to anyone one who
wants.....e-mail me direct.

Would I do you wrong???????
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 03:41:44 1997
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From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Inside Curves
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 06:41:06 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970118064200.26afa28a@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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  Good Morning All:
                        Thanks for all the discussion on the inside
curves.... I have been doing my cutting using the same method at Len
describes and it does work, I just need more practice.  At least this
information give me more confidence that I am going in the right direction.  
                        I also plan to try all of the tips that have been
suggested here..  Thanks again....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Jansen's Dining, Cornell University
255-5960
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 09:52:24 1997
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From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: band saw
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:43:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.74346.0>
References: <<199701180649.WAA20383@kim.teleport.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Enchanted Glass
Precedence: bulk

Elaine & Howard Rubin wrote:
> 
> -- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
> 
> Hi all, Howard here....what I have NOT noticed was anyone extolling on the
> virtues of the CORRECT pliers to assist or EVEN (sheer heresey) use instead
> of a saw.....
> 
> Even in my limited experience, I cannot see the need for one for myself, as
> multiple repeat pieces in a lamp that HAVE to be color phased and matched,
> first have to be cut into little pieces and from selected areas of the sheet
> as well.
>>  Well for those of us who arent making just lamps... A bandsaw does come in handy.  Most of the Widows I make are fairly large and invariable I wind up using a band saw for one or two cuts.  That does not mean the cuts could not be made by hand, merely that I find it faster than making "mini" cuts and I dont have to cringe when I go to break out the inside curve.  Nice, Safe, Predictable me... dwelling in the middle of the road using every little thing I can find to make my hobby a joy!
CRZKT
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 10:19:17 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: snip
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:39:30 +0000
Message-ID: <199701181818.SAA29032@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
It's been amazing what's been going on in these last couple of days.  I 
haven't had a chance to  get to the computer (.. a lot of fun too!) I 
am aware of the "pig" saying  "Across the Pond" in the version of a 
"horse", e.g. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it 
DRINK
Whatever....  Who cares.... I did like the "tun-a fish" comment 
though..
This whole business about "editing out" is getting quite delicate and 
almost a "diplomatic issue". I think I have spotted a kind of a 
general consencus and I am desperate not wishing to tread on anyone's 
toes or hurt anyone's feelings, especially not of those I have learnt 
to like and value during this last year or so. They are working so 
darned hard for the group, making so many immensely valuable 
contributions.
Which was why , I pleaded for all and everybody to state their own 
input, right at the TOP of the e-mail posting and then let the 
"quotes" follow afterwards, for anyone  needing a "refresher" on who 
said what, when & why.
That way, - I felt - , no fingers needed to be pointed, no tempers 
frayed, no mail trashed and the "no-edit" people also catered for.
A kind of a compromise .....

The "no edit" people just shift their own in-put from the bottom to 
the top; the "edit-the-lot" people can see the latest reply right ON 
TOP of the input and saves those 10-30 seconds for each message in 
having to scroll down and search....

Scott,
am delighted you are "hanging on". Have heard a lot about you... Still 
have a major "bone to pick" with my nearest UK supplier who charges 
me (a lot) for a copy of your Newsletter. My dissatisfaction about 
this has obviously "filtered through " to him in these last 6 months, 
because in "his" own so called Newsletter, he justifies this "charge" 
 by the claim that he has to pay your freight cost of the Newsletter 
from USA to UK .  For other UK and European "lurkers" I am (yet again) 
raising this issue in light of your (Scott's)  input some months ago. I would 
like to start some sort of a dialogue between your Magazine and  
people who TEACH ( and not just sell).  My philosophy is, that you can 
set up shop as much as you want, but if if you can't "sell" learning 
FIRST, then as a retailer or a wholesaler, you have no customers....

Finally, we have got quite embroiled into "in-house" discussions in 
this last week; I have not seen ONE single message welcoming Tomas 
from Poland.... nor a comment about his invitation to help  organize 
Polish Stained Glass visits and sights, should we succeed to get a 
re-union of stained glass people across the Globe
(Tomas, delighted to hear from you - will reply to you directly...)
 I have made a very modest start, in that 4 of you (so far)  in the USA are
 coming over here to 
Europe and UK ,  THIS March, THIS year  to go to Chartres in France.
I have already had the immense pleasure to welcome visitors from 
South Africa and USA into my home last year - as a result of 
"Glass@Bungi" Group. (Malcolm.... I WILL get back to you....).
 Through unfortunate circumstances, the 
Australians never made it here.... I DO hope to develop this whole idea much 
further; for you, for me, for all of us...... I intend to get off  the 
ground stained glass economy visits from  US (in Europe) to you ( in 
USA,Canada, Australia, New Zeeland) and from YOU to US. We'll get 
there in the end....
Could we all "oldies" try  - please try - and pick up the "Newbies" 
from wherever they come, make them welcome, make them feel special 
and wanted - they ALL have something to give..... I think that the 
LEAST we can do,  is to acknowledge their shy appearance, trying to 
communicate in English with a bunch of people who don't speak 
"english" but "American"... Pheww! That's quite a task in itself...
I'll get off my "soap-box" now!!
Elisabeth (The Very  Vicious Viking) 'n Toby (T'e Terrible Tulip Torturer)

Scott wrote (snip) or QUOTE: 

So... here's one more vote for *EDITING*. I know there are one or two on the
list who have made it clear that they intend to keep wasting everyone else's
time by reprinting every word of every post (and every footer) that came
before theirs.

But if *everyone else* (which I'm hoping is the majority of us) would simply
quote only the relevant sentence(s) when responding, it would make wading
through the bungi mail much less tedious. 

Please, oh please, be considerate. And a big "thank you" to those who already
are.

Scott
Stained Glass News
----
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 10:59:45 1997
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X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca
From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: welcome all new comers
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:59:09 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.8599.0>
References: <<199701181818.SAA29032@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Precedence: bulk

In reference to Elisabeth's welcome of Tomas and his invitations to visit
Poland: missed them. My ISP must have been up to no good and spit that one
out. Thanks, anyway, Tomas, even if I don't know what for. BTW, is Greg
still out there? I believe he also offered to show visitors around.... was
it Warsaw? 

There also used to be a participant from Italy on this list. Waddya say,
Elisabeth, Italy in the fall? Poland in (very late) spring 98? Let's not
forget that excursion to the Netherlands...

And, whenever you are ready, there's always Philadelphia. Come and see the
magnificent LC Tiffany mosaic, a full wall behind a fountain in the lobby
of the old Curtis Publishing Building. (For the genuine tourists, you'll
be happy to note that it is conveniently located across the street from
Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell.)

all the best

Mary


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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 11:18:44 1997
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From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:15:23 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.191523.0>
References: <<199701181818.SAA29032@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi

	I've seen in the catalogs a book about making stained glass
things for outside.  I haven't actually seen the book itself, but was
wondering how a foil project would hold up to the elements.  I've thought
about making some decorative (only, not for use) bird houses.  Also, I've
made some 3-D flowers just playing around, and thought of making some to
put in a pot on my porch, or sticking some in the garden.  Does anyone
have any experience with things left outside, or is there anything  you
need to do to protect a piece.  I don't want to go to all the trouble if
something's going to come apart.

Thanks,

Jerri
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 12:20:32 1997
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From: Shirley Suter <ssuter@intrastar.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:18:00 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.8180.0>
References: <<1997Jan18.191523.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Intrastellar Internet Service & Suter's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk


------------20F67A23426D0
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Hey Jerri and Gang,

I have made tons of pieces that are for outdoor use and have had no
trouble from any of them.  As long as you remember the rules of
reinforcement and quality workmanship, you too should have no problems.
Because I hang many of the smaller 3-dimensional things from heavy
fishing string, I do try and remember to replace the string every so
often.  It seems that the sun's UV's destroys it after a while.  Also I
use fishing swivels on the string to keep the wind from spinning the
piece so much that it breaks the string.

Many of my beginning projects are hanging out in my gardens and have
done so for up to ten years.  Just remember when hanging something, be
sure that when the wind blows hard, the piece will not bang into
anything else.  Also, when hanging things from trees....be kind to the
tree.

Shirley & the Cows
Grapeland, Tx.

Jerri M Roey wrote:
 Does anyone
> have any experience with things left outside, or is there anything
you
> need to do to protect a piece.


------------20F67A23426D0
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<HTML><BODY>

<DT>Hey Jerri and Gang,</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>I have made tons of pieces that are for outdoor use and have had no
trouble from any of them.&nbsp; As long as you remember the rules of reinforcement
and quality workmanship, you too should have no problems.&nbsp; Because
I hang many of the smaller 3-dimensional things from heavy fishing string,
I do try and remember to replace the string every so often.&nbsp; It seems
that the sun's UV's destroys it after a while.&nbsp; Also I use fishing
swivels on the string to keep the wind from spinning the piece so much
that it breaks the string.</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>Many of my beginning projects are hanging out in my gardens and have
done so for up to ten years.&nbsp; Just remember when hanging something,
be sure that when the wind blows hard, the piece will not bang into anything
else.&nbsp; Also, when hanging things from trees....be kind to the tree.</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>Shirley &amp; the Cows</DT>

<DT>Grapeland, Tx.</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>Jerri M Roey wrote:<BR>
&nbsp;Does anyone<BR>
&gt; have any experience with things left outside, or is there anything&nbsp;
you<BR>
&gt; need to do to protect a piece.&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------------20F67A23426D0--

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 12:33:15 1997
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From: mcastle@uninet.net (Martin Castle)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Fees
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: <v01540b00af06e23e805b@[206.137.208.17]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In the past year I have started working more closely with builders doing
windows and cabinet doors. I get confused when people asking what I charge.
Down right embrassed if it is a good friend or family member asking for
someone else. A couple of other stained glass workers in the area have said
to charge by the hour and materials, the other guy said to charge by the
square foot plus materials. On some smaller stuff I charge 2 and a half
times what the materials cost.
Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Being a newbie to
this group I find that I am picking up quite a bit and appreciate the
opportunity to converse with other stained glassers.

Thanks Martin

Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941

207 382 6207                  207 382 6207

Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
Islesboro Central School      Unity College
PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
Islesboro Maine 04848

207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220

207 734 8159 Fax

email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net









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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 13:21:47 1997
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From: April Paine <vgplugs@primeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 16:25:50 PST
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.02550.0>
References: <<1997Jan18.8180.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Agree with Shirley...I still wish that the solder points looked as good
as aged copper ....

What kind of cows Shirley?? I'm wanting a Jersey milk cow moooo!

April
vgplugs@primeline.com
In The Smoky Mountains, Zone 6
Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass      "Where Gardening Is An Art."




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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 13:39:29 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:33:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.113316.0>
References: <<1997Jan18.191523.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jerri M Roey wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
>         I've seen in the catalogs a book about making stained glass
> things for outside.  I haven't actually seen the book itself, but was
> wondering how a foil project would hold up to the elements.  I've thought
> about making some decorative (only, not for use) bird houses.  Also, I've
> made some 3-D flowers just playing around, and thought of making some to
> put in a pot on my porch, or sticking some in the garden.  Does anyone
> have any experience with things left outside, or is there anything  you
> need to do to protect a piece.  I don't want to go to all the trouble if
> something's going to come apart.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jerri
> ----
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i guess that you depend on your or their weather. i would proably try
making a basic one, it's really the only true test to see if it holds
up. if you get a lot of blowing ice your way it may not hold up well. it
should stay together fine in the summer (just be sure to secure the wire
firmly). i would just build it and try it. just don't leave an empty
hole for a small bird to nest in.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 13:45:13 1997
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From: pmpalm@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Cutting inside curves
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:43:52 -0800
Message-ID: <19971181804676334@ix.netcom.com>
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Hi all

I must jump into this discussion from lurker mode.  Conspicuously missing from all the good advice is one item.  It is crucial, don't you think, to place the tip of one's tongue between the front teeth while performing this delicate operation?

There is some feeling that the exact angle of tongue placement can determine the success or failure of a given cut.  (Of course, the less conventional claim that it is actually better to perform this manuever with the lower lip between the teeth.  Whatever.)  It is my personal theory that the pressure of teeth-on-tongue (or lip) is directly proportional to the pressure of cutter-on-glass, thus affecting the outcome for good or ill.  Anyone else have any experience with this?  :-)

With tongue firmly in cheek,   Peggy



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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 13:47:34 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fees
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:41:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.114126.0>
References: <<v01540b00af06e23e805b@[206.137.208.17]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Martin Castle wrote:
> 
> In the past year I have started working more closely with builders doing
> windows and cabinet doors. I get confused when people asking what I charge.
> Down right embrassed if it is a good friend or family member asking for
> someone else. A couple of other stained glass workers in the area have said
> to charge by the hour and materials, the other guy said to charge by the
> square foot plus materials. On some smaller stuff I charge 2 and a half
> times what the materials cost.
> Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Being a newbie to
> this group I find that I am picking up quite a bit and appreciate the
> opportunity to converse with other stained glassers.
> 
> Thanks Martin
> 
> Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
> 135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
> Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941
> 
> 207 382 6207                  207 382 6207
> 
> Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
> Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
> Islesboro Central School      Unity College
> PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
> Islesboro Maine 04848
> 
> 207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220
> 
> 207 734 8159 Fax
> 
> email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


well i know we disscussed a while back, so a good chunk of the pricing
info should be in there. 

it all depends on how complex the piece is, you can get lets say 10
bucks worth of material (depending on sales, scrap, etc), and make a
project worth 100 bucks or more. or it can get real expensive and
confusing when use use dichro, generally you wind up getting more dichro
than you need and it get's kinda pricy. so let's say you need 1"x1" of
the stuff, and the smallest you can buy it in is 6"x6" and that sheet
may cost you $50, what would you charge the client. for me, if a friend
asks for something i generally charge full price, for family there is
some kind of discount, but not a big one. you don't want to be "used" by
your family, (reletives and non).

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 13:59:53 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:04:17 +0000
Message-ID: <199701182158.QAA27162@ns.computer.net>
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Did you know that for some reason your messages aren't "breaking" at 
the end of the screen, but continue on and on ad infinitum to the 
right? I've never seen this particular 'glitch" before, so am not 
able to suggest what might fix it, but you might take a look at the 
settings for whatever email package you're using to see if there's 
some seting that'll make your messages a little more readable.

I'm sure you'd want to know, but forgive the intrusion anyway.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 14:06:16 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:00:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.1201.0>
References: <<19971181804676334@ix.netcom.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

pmpalm@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> I must jump into this discussion from lurker mode.  Conspicuously missing from all the good advice is one item.  It is crucial, don't you think, to place the tip of one's tongue between the front teeth while performing this delicate operation?
> 
> There is some feeling that the exact angle of tongue placement can determine the success or failure of a given cut.  (Of course, the less conventional claim that it is actually better to perform this manuever with the lower lip between the teeth.  Whatever.)  It is my personal theory that the pressure of teeth-on-tongue (or lip) is directly proportional to the pressure of cutter-on-glass, thus affecting the outcome for good or ill.  Anyone else have any experience with this?  :-)
> 
> With tongue firmly in cheek,   Peggy
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i personally use the "hold my breath" method. just be careful to breath
real quick so you don't pass out. :)  this is mainly used on tricky
curves where you have to use both sides of the glass. like in my fish
lamp, each blue background was cut from one sheet of glass, except for a
smal section where it cracked due to thermal shock. generally it's: see
where you want to score, take a deep breath, hold it, and slowly cut the
line, and break it out. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 14:11:35 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:05:22 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.12522.0>
References: <<199701182158.QAA27162@ns.computer.net>>
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> Did you know that for some reason your messages aren't "breaking" at
> the end of the screen, but continue on and on ad infinitum to the
> right? I've never seen this particular 'glitch" before, so am not
> able to suggest what might fix it, but you might take a look at the
> settings for whatever email package you're using to see if there's
> some seting that'll make your messages a little more readable.
> 
> I'm sure you'd want to know, but forgive the intrusion anyway.
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i think it has to do something with how many columns you can display, by
default it's usally 80 (or at least dos it is). i use "Wrap Long Lines"
in netscape's option menu, though it's still kinda annoying. but
nothering serious...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 14:19:27 1997
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From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:10:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.121035.0>
References: <<199701182158.QAA27162@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Enchanted Glass
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
>CRZKT WROTE  Does this fix it?  I reset my netscape and it is doing all sorts of odd things... Thanks for the post though
as always 
CRZKT 
> Did you know that for some reason your messages aren't "breaking" at
> the end of the screen, but continue on and on ad infinitum to the
> right? I've never seen this particular 'glitch" before, so am not
> able to suggest what might fix it, but you might take a look at the
> settings for whatever email package you're using to see if there's
> some seting that'll make your messages a little more readable.
> 
> I'm sure you'd want to know, but forgive the intrusion anyway.
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 14:50:33 1997
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From: pmpalm@ix.netcom.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves/one sentence
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:49:03 -0800
Message-ID: <199711819645719169@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I appreciate the information, Albert.  I hate getting "one-liners" and had no idea I was sending them.  The new version of Netcom may have something to do with it.  I'm still figuring out the "improvements" :-)!  Did this arrive in appropriate format?  It looks ok on screen compared to your quoted text below.  Thanks!  Peggy


On 01/18/97 17:04:17 you wrote:
>
>
>Did you know that for some reason your messages aren't "breaking" at 
>the end of the screen, but continue on and on ad infinitum to the 
>right? I've never seen this particular 'glitch" before, so am not 
>able to suggest what might fix it, but you might take a look at the 
>settings for whatever email package you're using to see if there's 
>some seting that'll make your messages a little more readable.
>
>I'm sure you'd want to know, but forgive the intrusion anyway.
>
>Albert
>
>Albert Lewis, Executive Director
>International Guild of Glass Artists
>A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
>http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>



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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 15:00:19 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves/one sentence
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:54:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.12547.0>
References: <<199711819645719169@ix.netcom.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

pmpalm@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> I appreciate the information, Albert.  I hate getting "one-liners" and had no idea I was sending them.  The new version of Netcom may have something to do with it.  I'm still figuring out the "improvements" :-)!  Did this arrive in appropriate format?  It looks ok on screen compared to your quoted text below.  Thanks!  Peggy
> 
> On 01/18/97 17:04:17 you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Did you know that for some reason your messages aren't "breaking" at
> >the end of the screen, but continue on and on ad infinitum to the
> >right? I've never seen this particular 'glitch" before, so am not
> >able to suggest what might fix it, but you might take a look at the
> >settings for whatever email package you're using to see if there's
> >some seting that'll make your messages a little more readable.
> >
> >I'm sure you'd want to know, but forgive the intrusion anyway.
> >
> >Albert
> >
> >Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> >International Guild of Glass Artists
> >A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

just so you know....nope...just one long line...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 15:48:03 1997
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From: "Kathy Sagy" <reflections@brinet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:45:00 -0600
Message-ID: <199701182348.SAA14283@bones.brinet.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Another reply to author apparently all of us are not quite as well verses
in email procedure as you are!

----------
> From: Albert Lewis <alewis@computer.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: (Fwd) Re: Gatewayed mail message
> Date: Wednesday, January 15, 1997 10:31 AM
> 
> >We should quote only what is needed.  Especially the footer for the 
> >mailing list.  I can find it used it at least twice in most messages. 
> >Just my 2 cents worth.
> 
> Good luck on this. I suggested something similar a few months ago and 
> got singed pretty badly. Apparently there are a few people who are 
> too lazy to do anything more than hit the Reply key.
> 
> Not only is it inconsiderate, it's sometimes darned hard to find 
> their additional comments at the foot (or top ... or are they in the 
> *middle?) of the mess they blithely send off.
> 
> Oh, well. You can lead a pig to water, but you can't make him think.
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 15:59:00 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vlkdr-0000n7a; Sat, 18 Jan 97 15:57 PST
X-Path: brinet.com!reflections
From: "Kathy Sagy" <reflections@brinet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Patterns Wanted
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:55:53 -0600
Message-ID: <199701182359.SAA14351@bones.brinet.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Check with the Applebee's Restaurant Chain, they have a beautiful lamp that
has a steam engine incorporated in the design.  Also check with Mike @
www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 he has some really great designs and may be
able to assist you.  His work is great!

----------
> From: Martin Castle <mcastle@uninet.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Patterns Wanted
> Date: Thursday, January 16, 1997 8:50 AM
> 
> I am looking for a pattern for a client that would like to have a panel
> made with a picture of a steam engine. The panel would be 18"h by 24 to
30"
> in width. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please respond to
> mcastle@uninet.net not the whole listserve thanks
> 
> Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
> 135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
> Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941
> 
> 207 382 6207                  207 382 6207
> 
> Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
> Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
> Islesboro Central School      Unity College
> PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
> Islesboro Maine 04848
> 
> 207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220
> 
> 207 734 8159 Fax
> 
> email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 16:36:41 1997
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X-Path: calhoun.lakes.com!oddjob
From: "Edward W. Reitmann" <oddjob@calhoun.lakes.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:31:07 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.12317.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC056D.CA64A960
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have made stained glass that has been used outside in both the heat of =
Arizona summers and the cold frigid winters of Minnesota with NO =
problems. This winter will be the real test with ice and -45 below wind =
chills last week (will Spring ever come?)
Sue Reitmann
Artistry In Glass
Shorewood, MN 55331

----------
From: 	Jerri M Roey[SMTP:jroey@juno.com]
Sent: 	Saturday, January 18, 1997 1:15 PM
To: 	glass@bungi.com
Subject: 	Stained Glass outside
<snip>

Does anyone
have any experience with things left outside, or is there anything  you
need to do to protect a piece.  I don't want to go to all the trouble if
something's going to come apart.

Thanks,

Jerri
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC056D.CA64A960--

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 18:40:50 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vlnBD-0000i5a; Sat, 18 Jan 97 18:40 PST
X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:40:11 -0500
Message-ID: <9701190240.AA09683@water.waterw.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well, I decided to remove the message all together.....


Mike embarrased me into finally working on our homepage again.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Artglass.

I am awaiting some new photos of the work we have installed already this year.
Not enough room to put everything....so I have chosen a few favorites.

This year we have scheduled some really unique installations and I will
definitely
pass them on.  I hope to add an info and link line too.

You have to remember.....I am not a real computer person....I am an artist. <BG>


my best,
pj


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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 18:54:59 1997
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	id m0vlnOy-00005Ga; Sat, 18 Jan 97 18:54 PST
X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:00:28 +0000
Message-ID: <199701190254.VAA12578@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>  Does this fix it?  I reset my netscape and it is doing all sorts of odd things... Thanks for the post though
> as always 

You're welcome.  That one *did seem to scroll correctly, although it 
was kinda short.  Well, hmm.  Note that *my line above broke at "it," 
but yours continues out beyond that margin ... did you hit a "hard 
return" after "though"? That might be tough to remember, I realize.

albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 19:29:30 1997
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X-Path: arn.net!loveta
From: "Loveta Elmore" <loveta@arn.net>
To: "glass bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Lamp cap tips
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:28:53 -0600
Message-ID: <199701190327.VAA03716@arnet.arn.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

If you feel like you must solder your lamp cap, flux your cap and put your
solder iron tip threw center hole, and leave there for 3 or 4 minutes. 
Then apply solder as usual.  

You can also black patina without soldering cap.

Finish project.  Then add table salt to black patina and brush on, it
should turn cap black immediately.   Finish with Finishing compound.

Hope this helps.  

Loveta
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 19:29:53 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:52:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.12523.0>
References: <<9701190240.AA09683@water.waterw.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

pj friend wrote:
> 
> Well, I decided to remove the message all together.....
> 
> Mike embarrased me into finally working on our homepage again.
> 
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Artglass
> Hi pj --  Loved your work.  I'm really into leaded pieces and your 
entryways and stunning, just gorgeous.  Thanks for giving us the chance 
to view them.  I look forward to more of your work.  T. in Montana
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 21:38:57 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:37:59 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.193759.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I can no longer resist - I have to say it - Ringstar, Ringstar, Ringstar!
(It's a chant)
If you can't afford or simply don't want a band or ring saw then the best
tool you can get is the Ringstar pliers from Glastar.  It has allowed me to
break out "S" and "C" curves in one piece.  No Kidding!  It costs around $20
retail, I think and I must admit not a lot of retailers carry it - but they
can all order it - as the big wholesalers do carry it.  I now have a ring saw
but I still use my trusty Ringstar for cutting.  (I'm the one who uses her
ring saw mostly for sawing fused pieces.)  Buy a Ringstar -  I promise you
won't regret it.   Barbara 
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 21:49:31 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:48:55 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.194855.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

One more thing about these inside curves - with the Ringstar I NEVER have to
make several cuts.  Just one  score and then break out with the RIngstar.
 Mike commented some on it - although I won't say I had to relearn how to
break out glass.  It's a matter of making sure the score is running it's
length little by little.  It's somewhat akin to tapping on the underside of
the glass to make the score run but it's much gentler and more exact than
tapping.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 21:59:13 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Newsletter
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:58:32 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.195832.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Scott,
I used to LOVE reading Stained Glass News - then I got "lucky" and started
buying wholesale.  The downside to buying wholesale is I can no longer get
your newsletter.  Won't you please consider subscriptions for people like me?
 Please, Please?  Barbara 
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 22:03:54 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fees
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 01:03:25 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.20325.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I don't do custom work like that myself, but one who does repairs and such in
the Chicago metro area charges $15 per hour - supplies of course are extra.
 Barbara
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 22:06:22 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 01:05:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.20523.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne Cooper is the one who wrote Simply Outside and she is on both the AOL
and Prodigy bulletin boards.  I'll stop by one of those and ask her but I
suspect she wouldn't have published the book without test driving her
products.  Barbara
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 23:01:45 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!BarbaraBGS
From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Etching help needed
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:01:22 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.21122.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I posted this to another board a while ago and got no help.  I know that
won't happen here.  :-)

I've not yet done any glass etching - just got Jack Frost and have some
questions about use.  The bottle says to dip my object into the liquid and
then pour back the remainder into the bottle it came in.   
What kind of container can I use to dip?  Is it okay for the residue to go
down the drain, i.e. won't hurt my plumbing?  My "object" is a tiny tiffany
lamp shade - it's rounded.  Resist sounds difficult to use in this case?  Is
there another way to get my design on?  In etching metal I just use permanent
marker.  Is this ok with glass also?  Thanks for help!  Barbara
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 23:50:57 1997
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X-Path: accesscomm.net!spinn
From: spinn@accesscomm.net (Stephen Pinn)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Etching help needed
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:50:23 GMT
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.75023.0>
References: <<1997Jan18.21122.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: PinnCorp.
Precedence: bulk

Barbara, would love to help but my etching is done with sandblasting.

Steve

On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:01:22 -0500 (EST), you wrote:

>I posted this to another board a while ago and got no help.  I know that
>won't happen here.  :-)
>
>I've not yet done any glass etching - just got Jack Frost and have some
>questions about use.  The bottle says to dip my object into the liquid =
and
>then pour back the remainder into the bottle it came in.  =20
>What kind of container can I use to dip?  Is it okay for the residue to =
go
>down the drain, i.e. won't hurt my plumbing?  My "object" is a tiny =
tiffany
>lamp shade - it's rounded.  Resist sounds difficult to use in this case?=
  Is
>there another way to get my design on?  In etching metal I just use =
permanent
>marker.  Is this ok with glass also?  Thanks for help!  Barbara
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 18 23:55:28 1997
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X-Path: macnet.com!jhendershott
From: "J. Hendershott" <jhendershott@macnet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:01:04 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan18.1614.0>
References: <<1997Jan18.20523.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Barbara

Why don't you get those guys on AOL and P* to come on over and join us
on this list. I gave up on AOL months ago, but sure do miss the group. 

Janie
 
> Suzanne Cooper is the one who wrote Simply Outside and she is on both the AOL
> and Prodigy bulletin boards.  I'll stop by one of those and ask her but I
> suspect she wouldn't have published the book without test driving her
> products.  Barbara
----
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 07:15:15 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lamp Vase Cap - Patina Black
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:18:34 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.81834.0>
References: <<1997Jan15.82550.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Is there an easy way to get a very large (8" x 4" for a Prairie lamp)
> bright brass lamp vase cap the color of black patina? Do I have tin the
> thing and then patina it or is there another process to get the antique
> look? If I do have to tin it, how do you get the thing hot enough to take
> the solder? Can I flux it and dip it in a pot of melted lead?
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Linda
> 
> begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
> M>)\^(C,2`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0`
> M`@````(``@`!!) &``@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/
> M`0```#T`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC
> M;VT`4TU44 !G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT`````'@`", $````%````4TU44 ``
> M```>``,P`0```! ```!G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VT``P`5# $````#`/X/!@``
> M`!X``3 !````$@```"=G;&%S<T!B=6YG:2YC;VTG`````@$+, $````5````
> M4TU44#I'3$%34T!"54Y'22Y#3TT``````P``.0`````+`$ Z`0````(!]@\!
> M````! ````````-\*P$(@ <`& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E
> M`#$(`02 `0`=````3&%M<"!687-E($-A<" M(%!A=&EN82!";&%C:P`T"0$%
> M@ ,`#@```,T'`0`/``T`&0`R``,`/P$!(( #``X```#-!P$`#P`-`!$`)P`#
> M`"P!`0F `0`A````.$0U0SA#,3E!-C9%1# Q,4)"13 P,$1$,#$Q-3DU0S@`
> M,@<!`Y &`$P#```2````"P`C```````#`"8```````L`*0```````P`V````
> M``! `#D`X)Z4B!$#O $>`' ``0```!T```!,86UP(%9A<V4@0V%P("T@4&%T
> M:6YA($)L86-K``````(!<0`!````%@````&\`Q&(BQF,7(YNIA'0N^ `W0$5
> ME<@``!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% `````'@`?# $````2````;&-B96QL0&UE
> M;6%C:"YC;VT````#``80@Q&DR0,`!Q D`0``'@`($ $```!E````25-42$52
> M14%.14%365=!651/1T54059%4EE,05)'12@X(E@T(D9/4D%04D%)4DE%3$%-
> M4"E"4DE'2%1"4D%34TQ!35!605-%0T%05$A%0T],3U)/1D),04-+4$%424Y!
> M/T1/20`````"`0D0`0```,\!``#+`0``EP(``$Q:1G7/\"7*_P`*`0\"%0*H
> M!>L"@P!0`O()`@!C: K <V5T,C<&``;#`H,R`\4"`'!R0G$1XG-T96T"@S.W
> M`N0'$P*#-!+,%,5]"H"+",\)V3L7GS(U-0* !PJ!#;$+8&YG,3 S+Q10"PH5
> M8@P!8P! ($E)!"!T: 2092 #D65 87-Y('=A'7!TF&\@9Q' '0`@=@20"QUP
> M"V!R'@`@*#@B\"!X(#0?, (0!< >0!Q0<@MP"($>H6UP*>0@8@409V@%0"#@
> M'5"?!" @@AY0'5 <\&-A(>#''+$B0!<B(&]F(- +8"AC:R *L'0+@&$_Y"!$
> M'>!)(!& 'F <H*\+@"*#'+ +@&<=`60<HO,#H"/$(&D%0 6Q! `<I^YO'+(C
> ML -@8P>0')$=Y#<BD@!P(^!Q"E >H&]OVFLD($DC0"1P9!W@))37'> DXB;
> M+"2 ;P?@*I'^>0A@*-<E9"O !4 )\ A@LR$0*P-A:R5"'/!S!O"[!($D($,#
> MD21P&G!U'U![)L$EPF0%(":R)/$>0'"W+6$C,0> ;!/0)>!L'4 N9"0@"H4*
> MA501@&YKCP0@'Z(BDAS ;' N,FRR3 N 9&$*A1;!`#9@``,`$! ``````P`1
> M$ ````! ``<P`%M;9! #O % ``@P`%M;9! #O $>`#T``0````$`````````
> "Z=D`
> `
> end
> 
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassi had one friend sho would use a blow torch toeven out the solder after 
tinning. It might be worth a try. I never had luck with just patining. 
in fact, thought i had and it washed off. good luck.
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 07:27:45 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:30:27 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.83027.0>
References: <<v01540b01af042596c83a@[206.137.208.16]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Martin Castle wrote:
> 
> Are there people using Band saw for cutting glass and if so how does it
> compare to using a hand cutter. I am now making large windows and what to
> know it a band saw would make more sense. Thanks Martin
> 
> Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
> 135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
> Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941
> 
> 207 382 6207                  207 382 6207
> 
> Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
> Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
> Islesboro Central School      Unity College
> PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
> Islesboro Maine 04848
> 
> 207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220
> 
> 207 734 8159 Fax
> 
> email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net
> 
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassi just bought the Inland small band saw. I have no intent to do large 
pieces on it. I believe you can still score and break faster, but it is 
great on cuts that would be impossible. well worth the money.
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 07:40:07 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:43:38 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.84338.0>
References: <<1997Jan18.191523.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jerri M Roey wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
>         I've seen in the catalogs a book about making stained glass
> things for outside.  I haven't actually seen the book itself, but was
> wondering how a foil project would hold up to the elements.  I've thought
> about making some decorative (only, not for use) bird houses.  Also, I've
> made some 3-D flowers just playing around, and thought of making some to
> put in a pot on my porch, or sticking some in the garden.  Does anyone
> have any experience with things left outside, or is there anything  you
> need to do to protect a piece.  I don't want to go to all the trouble if
> something's going to come apart.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jerri
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi, I made garden pansies last year. Had them out from spring to end of 
the Fall. Had only one hook that broke. It was really nice coming home 
and being greeted by your glass. Took them in for the winter. In fact 
have a large order this spring for them ....make and enjoy.
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 09:28:32 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Etching help needed
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:22:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.72253.0>
References: <<1997Jan18.21122.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I posted this to another board a while ago and got no help.  I know that
> won't happen here.  :-)
> 
> I've not yet done any glass etching - just got Jack Frost and have some
> questions about use.  The bottle says to dip my object into the liquid and
> then pour back the remainder into the bottle it came in.
> What kind of container can I use to dip?  Is it okay for the residue to go
> down the drain, i.e. won't hurt my plumbing?  My "object" is a tiny tiffany
> lamp shade - it's rounded.  Resist sounds difficult to use in this case?  Is
> there another way to get my design on?  In etching metal I just use permanent
> marker.  Is this ok with glass also?  Thanks for help!  Barbara
> ----
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i personally never done etching myself but this is the info i know. i
heard regular elmers white glue can be used as a resist, after wards you
can soak it in water to remove the glue. the acid can probably go into
anything plastic and you don't want anymore. as for the drains, it
should'nt really harm them, unless there made from glass. i would run
plenty of water down them though...

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 09:31:06 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:25:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.72541.0>
References: <<1997Jan18.193759.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I can no longer resist - I have to say it - Ringstar, Ringstar, Ringstar!
> (It's a chant)
> If you can't afford or simply don't want a band or ring saw then the best
> tool you can get is the Ringstar pliers from Glastar.  It has allowed me to
> break out "S" and "C" curves in one piece.  No Kidding!  It costs around $20
> retail, I think and I must admit not a lot of retailers carry it - but they
> can all order it - as the big wholesalers do carry it.  I now have a ring saw
> but I still use my trusty Ringstar for cutting.  (I'm the one who uses her
> ring saw mostly for sawing fused pieces.)  Buy a Ringstar -  I promise you
> won't regret it.   Barbara
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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the one thing i wish they would improve on it is the length of the
"mouth" it can only go so far. it would be nice if they made one with a
longer bill maybe 3" or so...right now it does work on alot of cuts, but
it would be nice if it worked on more.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 10:01:16 1997
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From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:52:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.75246.0>
References: <<1997Jan19.72541.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Enchanted Glass
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I can no longer resist - I have to say it - Ringstar, Ringstar, Ringstar!
> >
> the one thing i wish they would improve on it is the length of the
> "mouth" it can only go so far. it would be nice if they made one with a
> longer bill maybe 3" or so...right now it does work on alot of cuts, but
> it would be nice if it worked on more.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Oh my mike that is so true.  I to use my ringstar and yes I find myself at times making mini cuts because my of the short jaw length
as always
CRZKT
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 10:08:30 1997
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From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Etching help needed
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:59:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.75958.0>
References: <<1997Jan19.72253.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Enchanted Glass
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> >

> >
> > I've not yet done any glass etching - 
> i personally never done etching myself but this is the info i know. i
> heard regular elmers white glue can be used as a resist, after wards you
> can soak it in water to remove the glue. 
I might be totally off base, When I took my first lesson one of my
instructors showed me etching paste,  The resist was wax and you can
make your own templates form ( oh cripes the word escapse me but you use
the same stuff when airbrushing as a template)   I kind ofliked the
whold concept that the paste stayed wher you put it.  Of course I have
no idea if this is what you are trying to do.. Please keep me posted on
exactly what what you are trying to accomplish and I will pick a few
brains around here!
as always
crzkt
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 10:18:34 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Etching help needed
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:13:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.8138.0>
References: <<1997Jan19.75958.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

CRZKT wrote:
> 
> M. Savad wrote:
> >
> > BarbaraBGS@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> 
> > >
> > > I've not yet done any glass etching -
> > i personally never done etching myself but this is the info i know. i
> > heard regular elmers white glue can be used as a resist, after wards you
> > can soak it in water to remove the glue.
> I might be totally off base, When I took my first lesson one of my
> instructors showed me etching paste,  The resist was wax and you can
> make your own templates form ( oh cripes the word escapse me but you use
> the same stuff when airbrushing as a template)   I kind ofliked the
> whold concept that the paste stayed wher you put it.  Of course I have
> no idea if this is what you are trying to do.. Please keep me posted on
> exactly what what you are trying to accomplish and I will pick a few
> brains around here!
> as always
> crzkt
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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i think the type (i forget who posted it...silly me) he/she is using is
the liquid, dip in type. with this stuff you can etch an entire project
by just dipping it in, i'm not sure but i think it's a little stronger
than paste, it just does'nt stay where you want it to like paste does.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 10:45:42 1997
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From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Etching help needed
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:37:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.8379.0>
References: <<1997Jan19.8138.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Enchanted Glass
Precedence: bulk

> 
> i think the type (i forget who posted it...silly me) he/she is using is
> the liquid, dip in type. with this stuff you can etch an entire project
> by just dipping it in, i'm not sure but i think it's a little stronger
> than paste, it just does'nt stay where you want it to like paste does.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
Thanks Mike I am always learning... Where is Mona?  she should know all
the scary specs on the MSDS on that stuff... Some acids and some metals
are REALLY big NO NO's  take a minute before pouring any into drain or
sewar... also some new pipes are More of the plastic origin.  Will this
stuff hurt PVC?  Hope I get to see the ifinished result. SOunds neat.
as always
CRZKT
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 13:30:33 1997
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From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:27:55 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.212755.0>
References: <<1997Jan18.191523.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks everyone for the outside advice.  Shirley, the fishing swivel is a
great idea.  I was worried about our hot and humid summers here in the
south.  I just pictured coming home and finding solder and foil still
hanging with the glass on the ground.  As for the bird house, I was
thinking of either painting the hole, or using black glass for the piece
to fill it.  It's bad enough my husband thinks I'm running a shelter for
homeless dogs, I don't need any brain damaged birds ;)

Jerri
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 13:51:49 1997
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From: "Robert E. Jones" <rejones@CapAccess.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:50:34 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.115034.0>
References: <<19971181804676334@ix.netcom.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 pmpalm@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> theory that the pressure of teeth-on-tongue (or lip) is directly 
> proportional to the pressure of cutter-on-glass, thus affecting the 
> outcome for good or ill.  Anyone else have any experience with this?  :-)
> 
> With tongue firmly in cheek,   Peggy

It is my experience that the pressure on the tongue is in direct 
proportion to the cost of the glass you are cutting.  

Bob
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 14:08:05 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:02:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.12236.0>
References: <<1997Jan19.212755.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jerri M Roey wrote:
> 
> Thanks everyone for the outside advice.  Shirley, the fishing swivel is a
> great idea.  I was worried about our hot and humid summers here in the
> south.  I just pictured coming home and finding solder and foil still
> hanging with the glass on the ground.  As for the bird house, I was
> thinking of either painting the hole, or using black glass for the piece
> to fill it.  It's bad enough my husband thinks I'm running a shelter for
> homeless dogs, I don't need any brain damaged birds ;)
> 
> Jerri
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


another idea is to make a hanging planter out of the thing, so you get
function and beauty...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 14:09:31 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:03:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.12358.0>
References: <<1997Jan19.115034.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Robert E. Jones wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 pmpalm@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> > theory that the pressure of teeth-on-tongue (or lip) is directly
> > proportional to the pressure of cutter-on-glass, thus affecting the
> > outcome for good or ill.  Anyone else have any experience with this?  :-)
> >
> > With tongue firmly in cheek,   Peggy
> 
> It is my experience that the pressure on the tongue is in direct
> proportion to the cost of the glass you are cutting.
> 
> Bob
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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yeah something like that, i know, i almost passed out when cutting the
Youg. glass for the water in the lamp... not to mention tipping over
becuae of the complexity of the cut.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 15:21:59 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
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Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:41:19 +0000
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Thank you Albert,
I experienced the same thing....
I thought I might get all of the text, when I printed it out on 
paper. So I tried that.
But it didn't work.
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Albert wrote:
Did you know that for some reason your messages aren't "breaking" at 
the end of the screen, but continue on and on ad infinitum to the 
right? I've never seen this particular 'glitch" before, so am not 
able to suggest what might fix it, but you might take a look at the 
settings for whatever email package you're using to see if there's 
some seting that'll make your messages a little more readable.

UNQUOTE

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 15:22:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fees
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:41:19 +0000
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Hi Martin, and welcome out of the "closet".
In the last few months, we have been discussing pricing policies 
quite a lot. You should be able to "dip into" this past discussion in 
the Glass@Bungi "Archives". There are all sorts of way of charging, 
whatever suits your "style" and way of working. Some people even 
chose to charge "per piece of glass used".
As regards doing things for "friends or family", I agree with Mike 
Savad. Business is business - pleasure is pleasure. Keep the 2 
distinct and separate. I too frequently get asked the same favour. I 
either make it for them as a "special occasion present" (e.g. 
birthday, Christmas or other type of high-profile celebration. That 
means, they don't get anything else on the occasion). If they want 
something other than that, 
then they have to pay the full price and take their turn in my order 
book. Friends of friends often want exactly the same as such a "gift" 
they see. Those types of requests I mostly -  gently but firmly - refuse, 
because I wouldn't know how to charge them and it would devalue the 
"gift" I made in the first place.
It's a difficult one, but if you "stick to your guns", your 
principles will be respected, your ethos will be valued and people's 
appreciation of your craftsmanship will increase and the items you 
produce will be much more admired and treasured.
.... and don't sell yourself cheap....
Good Luck!
If anything needs clarification in the "Archives", go for it & let us 
know...
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Martin Castle wrote:
> 
> In the past year I have started working more closely with builders doing
> windows and cabinet doors. I get confused when people asking what I charge.
> Down right embrassed if it is a good friend or family member asking for
> someone else. A couple of other stained glass workers in the area have said
> to charge by the hour and materials, the other guy said to charge by the
> square foot plus materials. On some smaller stuff I charge 2 and a half
> times what the materials cost.
> Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Being a newbie to
> this group I find that I am picking up quite a bit and appreciate the
> opportunity to converse with other stained glassers.

Mike Savad wrote:> 
bucks worth of material (depending on sales, scrap, etc), and make a
project worth 100 bucks or more. or it can get real expensive and
confusing when use use dichro, generally you wind up getting more dichro
than you need and it get's kinda pricy. so let's say you need 1"x1" of
the stuff, and the smallest you can buy it in is 6"x6" and that sheet
may cost you $50, what would you charge the client. for me, if a friend
asks for something i generally charge full price, for family there is
some kind of discount, but not a big one. you don't want to be "used" by
your family, (reletives and non).

unquote
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 15:22:05 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Newsletter
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:41:19 +0000
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Thank you Barbara,
Glad to read your in-put. 
I would love to try and persuade Scott and/or his Newsletter to shift 
the criteria a little bit to include people like you and myself. I 
teach hands-on about 100 people a term. Each year has got 3 terms 
That means that in each 12 months I have a brand NEW batch of NEW 
students totalling approx. 200 (allowing for those who carry on) Each 
and every one of them is a potential new customer from a great 
selection of suppliers all over the world (not only UK suppliers). I 
would have loved to have been able to have "on tap" Scott's 
Newsletter to show them and help them get new ideas from. His policy 
is to supply them free of charge to "suppliers". UK suppliers' policy 
is to charge for them, as much as they can get away with.
That defeats the object of the exercise .
People in the teaching business may not be suppliers of "hardware", 
but they are suppliers - nevertheless - of "know-how". I hope and aim 
for to launch at least 1 professional a year. Whatever else, I have 
managed to launch 100's of people who are now busy in stained glass as 
a hobby for many, many years to come.  I can see the importance, the 
role that organizations, Newslatters like Scott's (and 
....Albert's.....) could potentially play in this whole scenario.
So I am trying to find more ways, whereby we can open up communications 
and exchanges on many  more levels.
Someone else (I saved the message, but off the top of my head, have 
forgotten exactly who asked..), posted a message about a trip to 
Ireland coming June and what stained glass sites can be found 
there... I know nothing about stained glass in Ireland, but have 
posted questions to my local vicar and other people I think may know 
a little bit more.... We'll get there in the end.
Thank you Barbara again
Let's hope we might be able to engage Scott in some sort of dialogue.
As I hope we might ALL get together and do.
...and Thank you Mary....

Elisabeth 'n Toby

Barbara wrote:
Scott,
I used to LOVE reading Stained Glass News - then I got "lucky" and started
buying wholesale.  The downside to buying wholesale is I can no longer get
your newsletter.  Won't you please consider subscriptions for people like me?
 Please, Please?  Barbara 
----
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 15:22:11 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lamp cap tips
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:41:19 +0000
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Hi All,

That's a new one on me!! Thanks for the tip Loveta!
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Loveta wrote:
Finish project.  Then add table salt to black patina and brush on, it
should turn cap black immediately. 
UNQUOTE

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 15:22:12 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fees
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:41:19 +0000
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Hi Barbara and group,
I have used this comparison before, I will use it again....
Converted into UK currency, your USD.15 per hour represents just one 
dollar less than what a domestic cleaner would charge to hoover your 
sitting room ( parts extra (e.g. paper bag for hoover, duster, 
etc...).)
A car mechanic would charge you USD.50/hour to change your oil, clean 
your plugs and clean your engine; an electrician who came to fix your 
central heating (YEP!!! I SHOULD KNOW!!!!!) would charge you about 
the same amount PER HOUR.  You are providing not only craftsmanship, 
but also ART when you produce a piece of stained glass.
Please - for goodness sake - charge accordingly.
REALISTICALLY - according to your experience and ability YES, but DO 
make  your customers aware of a) craftsmanship in the USA as of today 
and b) you are NOT a slave-worker in Taiwan, China or  Indonesia (and 
we have had heated discussions about THESE imports also....)
ALL of us are bargain-hunters; ALL of us want to pay as little as 
possible for as much as we can wring out of the product or service. 
There is a fine balance between cost, value for money and 
appreciation of a true piece of art and craftsmanship......
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Barbara wrote:
I don't do custom work like that myself, but one who does repairs and such in
the Chicago metro area charges $15 per hour - supplies of course are extra.
 Barbara
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As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 15:22:13 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Etching help needed
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:41:19 +0000
Message-ID: <199701192321.XAA29682@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Barbara,
I will try and help here on some levels.  I think on some levels 
Monona might well "burst in" here in far greater detail than I could 
ever do. If she does - please heed her.
First of all, you are dealing with etching chemicals. NEVER pour down 
the sink!
If your plumbing in the USA is anything like plumbing here in UK, 
then it is a whole "mish-mash" of plastic, lead, ceramic and goodness 
knows what else.... Not only might you "rot" your own plumbing system 
 domestically, you DO also run the risk of polluting and endangering 
your community's system. Play it safe, dispose of chemicals 
separately. Take them to your local chemist shop and request THEM to 
dispose of safely (They are used to it and have the 
technical/chemical know-how).
Secondly, NEVER pour anything BACK, however reasons of economy might 
favour it.
1) you will always run the risk to contaminate the original product 
(I personally don't even pour  excess liquid patina back...)
2) you will always run the risk of spillage and therefore add another 
hazard into your operation.
3) Because you have spent some time time in 
pouring, decanting back & forth, contaminating your original product, 
that very original product will get more and more "tired", polluted 
and ineffective, that you are going to reach a frustration point and 
progressively get more and more careless....
4. What sort of container to use...?
What did the original product come in?? Glass? A particular type of 
plastic? Metal? Provided the producer knows what he is doing, chose 
a replicated version of HIS container... Then you are safe.
5. I am not familiar with the particular brand (Jack Frost) that you 
mention. A liquid that I have myself got is - however - also produced 
in the USA.  It is delivered to me in UK in a plastic 680 gram 
plastic screw-top bottle. It carries the following health warning:

MAY BE FATAL OR CAUSE PERMANENT DAMAGE . VAPOR HARMFUL.
 CAUSES SEVERE 
BURNS WHICH MAY NOT BE IMMEDIATELY PAINFUL OR VISIBLE.
All in capitals.
The liquid is brown, the plastic bottle is sort of non-descript see-through 
colour, the print is imprinted on the plastic in red (against the 
brown) about 2 mm print size, and which a dab of white spirit (turps 
- or whatever you call it Across the Pond might call it -)  would 
totally dissolve and obscure.
Turn the bottle round and you will read in even smaller letters (same 
red) that this product contains hydrofluoric acid.
flush with water for at LEAST 15 minutes and call your "poison 
emergency center"
Blink and you've missed it....

So you want to do etching. I can't answer the question about a 
"permanent marker", because I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. 
I think there are quite a number of "etching manuals" about....What 
about engraving??? You can achieve many effects that are almost the 
same by using engraving techniques, rather than using the etching process 
with its  hazardous and often lethal chemicals.
If your mind is set on specifically etching process, then don't do it 
at home.  Go and ask someone to teach you, who already does it 
professionally in a controlled and safe environment. Experiment, 
play, learn and develop WITHIN that controlled professional and safe 
environment. DO NOT take it home!!!!
TAKE Care!!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Barbara wrote:
I posted this to another board a while ago and got no help.  I know that
won't happen here.  :-)

I've not yet done any glass etching - just got Jack Frost and have some
questions about use.  The bottle says to dip my object into the liquid and
then pour back the remainder into the bottle it came in.   
What kind of container can I use to dip?  Is it okay for the residue to go
down the drain, i.e. won't hurt my plumbing?  My "object" is a tiny tiffany
lamp shade - it's rounded.  Resist sounds difficult to use in this case?  Is
there another way to get my design on?  In etching metal I just use permanent
marker.  Is this ok with glass also?  Thanks for help!  Barbara
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 15:42:58 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:02:25 +0000
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Hi Gang,
The pressure of my tongue is exactly in proportion to the pressure of 
my hand and the pressure of my body movements  (avoiding all sexual 
connotations here..!!!)  in proportion to the pressure 
of my temper, which - in the end - is as a result of the screw up of 
the "cut" I either did or did not achieve. The pressure of the 
Swedish "sulphuric" language - therefore - is also in direct 
proportion....
Demonstrations to students of the principles "do as I tell you and 
not as I myself do" - a point in case...
Particularly when the bit about ..."not as I do"... ALSO screws up.... 
OUCHH - (oh shit...!)
Sigh, Oh well...
Elisabeth 'n Toby

  :-)
> 
> With tongue firmly in cheek,   Peggy

It is my experience that the pressure on the tongue is in direct 
proportion to the cost of the glass you are cutting.  

Bob
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----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 15:42:59 1997
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From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:33:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.133359.0>
References: <<1997Jan19.212755.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Enchanted Glass
Precedence: bulk

Jerri M Roey wrote:
>  As for the bird house, I was
> thinking of either painting the hole, or using black glass for the piece
> to fill it.  
I have a book of outside patterns for a bird house and az bird feeder. 
The author recomends using lead free solder... I have never used lead
free but it might be worth a shot for you
as always
CRZKT
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 15:43:17 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:02:25 +0000
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Hi Jerry,
Loved your input.
Tell me, why the hell not....!!! Who cares!!

Elisabeth 'n Tobyt (probably brain damaged....)Jerri wrote:

 It's bad enough my husband thinks I'm running a shelter for
homeless dogs, I don't need any brain damaged birds ;)

Jerri
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----
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 15:46:24 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:45:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.134548.0>
References: <<199701192320.XAA29675@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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Listen, folks,  I think you need to check your software! My sorry, lame
excuse of an ISP prints those messages you're complaining about just fine.
M


On Sun, 19 Jan 1997, Toby wrote:

> Thank you Albert,
> I experienced the same thing....
> I thought I might get all of the text, when I printed it out on 
> paper. So I tried that.
> But it didn't work.
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> Albert wrote:
> Did you know that for some reason your messages aren't "breaking" at 
> the end of the screen, but continue on and on ad infinitum to the 
> right? I've never seen this particular 'glitch" before, so am not 
> able to suggest what might fix it, but you might take a look at the 
> settings for whatever email package you're using to see if there's 
> some seting that'll make your messages a little more readable.
> 
> UNQUOTE
> 
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 16:33:27 1997
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From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:32:57 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

T. in Montana wrote:


>> Hi pj --  Loved your work.  I'm really into leaded pieces and your 
>entryways and stunning, just gorgeous.  Thanks for giving us the chance 
>to view them.  I look forward to more of your work.  


Thank you T!  I hope to add some heplful info on dealing with clients,
architects and all round business stuff that has made our studio so
successful.  

my best, pj





>pj friend wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I decided to remove the message all together.....
>> 
>> Mike embarrased me into finally working on our homepage again.
>> 
>> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Artglass

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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 17:00:53 1997
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From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha )
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:00:19 -0800
Message-ID: <199701200100.RAA03400@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You wrote: 
>
>Inside curves are the worst for me.  I am terrible at IC cutting.  I 
have
>selected projects specifically because they do have a lot of these, so 
I can
>practice, and I still don't do well with them.  I am determined that I 
will
>get better at them.  
>        Anyone have any tips that help them with cutting these 
curves.?
>
>>

Cut a series of relief cuts starting almost straight proceeding to 
increasingly tight radi. The ammount of cuts will vary depending on the 
depth of the i.c. Remove these pieces slowly starting the scores at 
both ends before trying to remove the glass. I find it best to use 
grozing pliers over breaking pliers for this operation. using this 
method you should be able to cut the most demanding ic. Don't be afraid 
to use a lot of relief cuts. On truly deep cuts I have used 20 or more. 
I have been able to cut 90 degree or less inside corners using this 
technique.

ms

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 17:38:35 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:44:08 +0000
Message-ID: <199701200138.UAA12247@ns.computer.net>
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>
> Listen, folks,  I think you need to check your software! My sorry, lame
> excuse of an ISP prints those messages you're complaining about just fine.
> M
 Well, hers were the only ones breaking that way. Suspecting that 
exception proved the rule, I pointed it out, although I didn't 
realize it was to the whole group. <sigh>

Albert

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 18:21:15 1997
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From: jroey@juno.com (Jerri M Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:17:03 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.2173.0>
References: <<1997Jan19.212755.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks.  Yes, I was thinking that if I did make any feeder or birdhouses
to be used, that I would use the lead free.  I've never tried it, but
have heard that it's not as easy to use.  Of course, if the birds like
the house, they probably won't care how the solder looks.  Those good ol'
wrens will nest anywhere.

Jerri

>I have a book of outside patterns for a bird house and az bird feeder. 
>
>The author recomends using lead free solder... I have never used lead
>free but it might be worth a shot for you
>as always
>CRZKT
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 19:23:10 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:17:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.171735.0>
References: <<1997Jan20.2173.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jerri M Roey wrote:
> 
> Thanks.  Yes, I was thinking that if I did make any feeder or birdhouses
> to be used, that I would use the lead free.  I've never tried it, but
> have heard that it's not as easy to use.  Of course, if the birds like
> the house, they probably won't care how the solder looks.  Those good ol'
> wrens will nest anywhere.
> 
> Jerri
> 
> >I have a book of outside patterns for a bird house and az bird feeder.
> >
> >The author recomends using lead free solder... I have never used lead
> >free but it might be worth a shot for you
> >as always
> >CRZKT
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

the other problems that would occor in a real feeder would be these:

1. the bird may peck it to pieces.
2. and if they don't the squirrels will.

and of course there's still the poison factor...

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 19:38:37 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: welcome all new comers
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:38:04 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970119224708.2857a428@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mary ...
                Thanks for the information... I am going  to the (Wonderful)
Philadelphia Flower Show in early March... The Tiffany Mosiac is now on my
agenda...
>
>And, whenever you are ready, there's always Philadelphia. Come and see the
>magnificent LC Tiffany mosaic, a full wall behind a fountain in the lobby
>of the old Curtis Publishing Building.
>Mary
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 23:22:15 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: AOL folks
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:21:38 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.212138.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Janie - I remember you.  I've posted this group several times lately and
specifically asked Suzanne Cooper and Phil Teefy why they haven't checked us
out.  Phil said he wasn't aware of us so maybe we'll see him soon.  I think
Suzanne is busy putting together her own web page.  Maybe when the dust
settles she's stop by.  

I still have both AOL and Prodigy as well as MSN.  MSN's board is
non-existent now that they have revamped their service.  Prodigy is still
very active, but they really are strickly cold glass.  Oddly enough, AOL
seems busier than ever, so I stop by there often.   I'll say hello for you.
 Barbara
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 19 23:46:03 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:  Outside glass
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:45:16 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan19.214516.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Here's Suzanne Cooper's response to the question of hanging glass outside ...
Barbara, yes indeed my designs are tested! You'll find photos of all of them.
Re the parts that "hang outside".... a good bead of solder generally does the
trick for me but I also suggest in the books that you solder a small wire
into the bead for reinforcement. The same thing applies to my lamp patterns
that have parts of the design that are outside. I dearly love designing
things that go outside the "normal" boundry.

Now, as to why I don't hang out where you suggested.... I don't know where
that is!!!!! Instruct me please as to how to find this area.
Thanks,
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 05:20:54 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Etching help needed
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:18:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.31842.0>
References: <<1997Jan18.21122.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> 
> I've not yet done any glass etching - just got Jack Frost and have some
> questions about use.  The bottle says to dip my object into the liquid and
> then pour back the remainder into the bottle it came in.
> What kind of container can I use to dip?  

In my experience the liquid stuff can in fact be reused, but according 
to advice already posted, I would advise against pouring it back into 
the original container.  My stuff comes in plastic, so plastic is ok.
Personally I have never used the dip method, (think it wastes too much 
stuff) and I have always used a brush to paint the stuff on.  On a three 
dimensional object like your small lampshade, I would think this would 
achieve better results anyway...the slightest bit that's not covered 
with wax or resist will etch.....and you don't want to ruin your 
finished project....
Now if you want to etch the entire thing with no resist or wax, the dip 
method would be perfect.
The whole question of pipes I think should be left to the experts, but I 
don't think the pipes themselves are the problem, but the contamination 
of the environment might well be.  Better safe than sorry.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 05:27:35 1997
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X-Path: idirect.com!mrum
From: mrum@idirect.com (mike & carol)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:26:53 -0500
Message-ID: <199701201326.IAA07814@nemesis.idirect.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

This method of using relief cuts works for me too.  Grozing pliers
work for most of it, but also have an old cutter that has little graduated gaps
that the glass fits into and then gradually break/chew out the relief cut.
I don't have
a lot of funds to spend on a band saw to make impossible curves.  And
since working with copper foil, how would you get the foil to go around
these impossible curves anyway without breaking?

Carol

>Cut a series of relief cuts starting almost straight proceeding to 
>increasingly tight radi. The ammount of cuts will vary depending on the 
>depth of the i.c. Remove these pieces slowly starting the scores at 
>both ends before trying to remove the glass. I find it best to use 
>grozing pliers over breaking pliers for this operation. using this 
>method you should be able to cut the most demanding ic. Don't be afraid 
>to use a lot of relief cuts. On truly deep cuts I have used 20 or more. 
>I have been able to cut 90 degree or less inside corners using this 
>technique.
>
>ms
>
>You wrote: 
>>Inside curves are the worst for me.  I am terrible at IC cutting.  I 
>>have selected projects specifically because they do have a lot of these, so 
>>I can practice, and I still don't do well with them.  I am determined that I 
>>will get better at them.  
>>        Anyone have any tips that help them with cutting these 
>curves.?


*******************************************
Mike and Carol Rumak
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at:
http://web.idirect.com/~studio
*******************************************

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 05:27:54 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Newsletter
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:25:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.32546.0>
References: <<199701192320.XAA29671@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Thank you Barbara,
> Glad to read your in-put.
> I would love to try and persuade Scott and/or his Newsletter to shift
> the criteria a little bit to include people like you and myself. 

The whole idea of the Stained Glass News was to get people to have to 
come in to see their retailers 4 times a year.  I think it works.  And 
to have others try to get around this objective puts the whole thing at 
risk.  Please find yourself a retailer who supplies Stained Glass News 
and support them.  I personally have tons of Stained Glass News left 
over after I "give" them away and would be willing to send them out to 
people who support me as a retailer.  But you have to buy something from 
me to get one.  They do cost me money, and I do need the sales.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 06:34:25 1997
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From: Rebecca Smith <rwsmith@aristotle.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Peggy's mail
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:34:31 -0600
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970119203822.1df730a0@aristotle.net>
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Peggy,
Just to let you know: Everything that you have sent comes through to me
normally. All the text is lined up and readable without any problem or any
adjustments being made. 

Rebecca Smith (rwsmith@aristotle.net)

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 07:02:04 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: What to do with Specialty Solders?
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:03:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.5331.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well, here's a good reason to buy from your local sg suppliers. I just 
entered a drawing on Saturday and won 3 lbs of specialty solder, Quick set, 
Ultimate and Lead free pewter look. What fun. From my other sg supplier I 
won a piece of glass two weeks ago.

Now, does anyone have suggestions on when and where I should use this 
wonderful windfall? I have only used 60/40 and I have played with 63/37 for 
decorative soldering.

Linda Campbell
Suffolk, VA

begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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`
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 07:12:19 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:05:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.5549.0>
References: <<199701201326.IAA07814@nemesis.idirect.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

mike & carol wrote:
> 
> This method of using relief cuts works for me too.  Grozing pliers
> work for most of it, but also have an old cutter that has little graduated gaps
> that the glass fits into and then gradually break/chew out the relief cut.
> I don't have
> a lot of funds to spend on a band saw to make impossible curves.  And
> since working with copper foil, how would you get the foil to go around
> these impossible curves anyway without breaking?
> 
> Carol
> 


that of course is the bad side of using a bandsaw. you get next to
impossible places to foil, or sections so thin they break anyway. it's
alot more tricky, it takes a much longer time. i think i put down
foiling tips in my tips section on my page recently. if you go the front
page may lag, i'm having problems with my counter.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 07:21:02 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: What to do with Specialty Solders?
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:15:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.51531.0>
References: <<1997Jan20.5331.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Well, here's a good reason to buy from your local sg suppliers. I just
> entered a drawing on Saturday and won 3 lbs of specialty solder, Quick set,
> Ultimate and Lead free pewter look. What fun. From my other sg supplier I
> won a piece of glass two weeks ago.
> 
> Now, does anyone have suggestions on when and where I should use this
> wonderful windfall? I have only used 60/40 and I have played with 63/37 for
> decorative soldering.
> 
> Linda Campbell
> Suffolk, VA
> 
>                    Name: WINMAIL.DAT
>     Part 1.2       Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>                Encoding: x-uuencode
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


Ulitimate, is an excellant beading solder, i know someone who mainly
uses that. Quickset freezes up pretty quickly, i use it in emergencies
when i run out of 60/40. and lead free is good for anything that's gone
be worn next to the skin, or have basic food stuffs in it. i would'nt
put anything like fruit next to it (it still has other poisons in it). 

i would keep the solder around, for a future project, i still have my
prize of ultimate from god knows when...it's the this type 1/16". but i
still have 'em waiting for a use...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 07:48:23 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Hot Solder
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:47:47 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970120105700.1cdff7b0@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

   Good Morning List,
                You have helped me so much with the inside curves...
 Tapping out the score from the back side of the glass worked like a
charm.... and brought a loud .... "Cool" .... from my lips when I saw what I
expected to be a disaster cut turn out to be as clean an inside cut as I
have ever done...
                I hope you can help me with this question too..  Saturday
evening I was soldering a sun catcher and I was very disappointed in the
looks of the solder line.  I thought that I was doing everything that my
instructor told me to do .... but before I blame my clumsiness totally, I
thought that I could check out the temperature of my solder iron.
                Could it be that a solder line will get clumpy and bulky
looking if the solder iron is not hot enough?  I tried to go back over it
and smooth out the bead, and it did help somewhat but not enough to suit my
sense of quality, so I am going to take it apart and start over.
                I am assembling a large panel (foiling the pieces now) and I
will go out a buy a better iron (I have a 100 watt Mika Studio Line) before
I even start  to solder it if necessary.  Thanks  for your advise
                                                                            
            B..

               .
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 08:08:17 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hot Solder
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:02:04 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.624.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970120105700.1cdff7b0@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

B. J. Snell wrote:
> 
>    Good Morning List,
>                 You have helped me so much with the inside curves...
>  Tapping out the score from the back side of the glass worked like a
> charm.... and brought a loud .... "Cool" .... from my lips when I saw what I
> expected to be a disaster cut turn out to be as clean an inside cut as I
> have ever done...
>                 I hope you can help me with this question too..  Saturday
> evening I was soldering a sun catcher and I was very disappointed in the
> looks of the solder line.  I thought that I was doing everything that my
> instructor told me to do .... but before I blame my clumsiness totally, I
> thought that I could check out the temperature of my solder iron.
>                 Could it be that a solder line will get clumpy and bulky
> looking if the solder iron is not hot enough?  I tried to go back over it
> and smooth out the bead, and it did help somewhat but not enough to suit my
> sense of quality, so I am going to take it apart and start over.
>                 I am assembling a large panel (foiling the pieces now) and I
> will go out a buy a better iron (I have a 100 watt Mika Studio Line) before
> I even start  to solder it if necessary.  Thanks  for your advise
> 
>             B..
> 
>                .
> Barbara J. Snell
> Dept. of Campus Life
> Cornell University
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


there's a few factors,

1. the iron may not be hot enough, you'll know this when the solder
does'nt want to melt right way when you touch it to the tip. it will get
pasty, or slide over the bead like it tripped, or it will stick to the
work.

2. the iron may not be clean (this also would be a heat reduction
cause).

3. not enough flux was used, or the wrong kind. it should be liquid (i'm
assuming your using the right stuff, coming from a class and all). 

4. the solder was of a low quality, or the wrong type. i use 50-50 for
the fill, and 60-40 for the bead. 

you did'nt mention what the bead looked like so i really would'nt be
able to identify the problem. i do know that a bead should be made once
because if you keep going over it, it'll just get worse each time. 

if you respond to this could you explain what the bead looks like,
smears, peaks, holes, splatters, etc....

---Mike Savad
 
-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 09:03:19 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hot Solder
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:02:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970120121205.248757e6@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike, 
                Let me attempt to describe the solder.  Holes, peaks, and in
several places in looked like the neck of a basset hound.  Folds, if that
sounds like something solder would do.  I did go over the bead a couple of
times and it did seem to get better and worse at the same time.  It also
looked like it had speckles  and spots in it.  (Dirty tip?)  I do use 60/40
solder... however, I will try the 50/50 for the fill, will save a little
money that way... 
                BTW... I am using the liquid flux and plenty of it, is it
possible to use too much?
>
>you did'nt mention what the bead looked like so i really would'nt be
>able to identify the problem. i do know that a bead should be made once
>because if you keep going over it, it'll just get worse each time. 
>
>if you respond to this could you explain what the bead looks like,
>smears, peaks, holes, splatters, etc....
>
>---Mike Savad
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 09:33:32 1997
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From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: welp
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:37:49 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.53749.0>
References: <<1997Jan20.624.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:

"welp"  in previous discussions, and now, thanks to y'all, i understand
- and wasn't completely confused when someone else (a scuba web
acquaintance) used it too.  is this a regional thing, or everywhere else
but south Texas?  just wanted to let you know how useful, in so many
ways, this group is.  i appreciate all your hints and tips.  thanks. 
Linn
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 12:08:00 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:05:56 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199701202005.OAA08063@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Folks,

Please excuse the following purist rant but......I think Mike S has
described a curse of technology as applied to S.G. The cuts that you can
make with a ring or band saw are not necessarily going to stand the test of
time( example...the inside 90) as well the the rest of a carefully
constructed piece. The old masters were more then capable of these exotic
cuts with just a pair of pliers I know, I've seen them during restorations,
but most of them crack and they were used infrequently. So what does that
all mean? I think it suggests that S.G. has certain physical limitations and
pieces should be designed accordingly. In my humble opinion its these
limitations and working within them that give stained glass designs their
uniqueness of line and form, otherwise it's just a drawing made into a
panel. On the other hand if I see one more lead line coming out of the end
of a birds beak I'm gonna scream!  ;-)

Len 

 

>that of course is the bad side of using a bandsaw. you get next to
>impossible places to foil, or sections so thin they break anyway. it's
>alot more tricky, it takes a much longer time. i think i put down
>foiling tips in my tips section on my page recently. if you go the front
>page may lag, i'm having problems with my counter.
>

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 13:19:27 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:18:45 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.111845.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


I visited a glass artist in Ste. Agathe, Quebec last year.
He did nothing but copper foil work, he said his outdoor
work held up just fine.  In fact, he had kind of a leafy 
flowery frieze all around the roof of his house.


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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 14:28:10 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hot Solder
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:20:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.122049.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970120121205.248757e6@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

B. J. Snell wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike,
>                 Let me attempt to describe the solder.  Holes, peaks, and in
> several places in looked like the neck of a basset hound.  Folds, if that
> sounds like something solder would do.  I did go over the bead a couple of
> times and it did seem to get better and worse at the same time.  It also
> looked like it had speckles  and spots in it.  (Dirty tip?)  I do use 60/40
> solder... however, I will try the 50/50 for the fill, will save a little
> money that way...
>                 BTW... I am using the liquid flux and plenty of it, is it
> possible to use too much?
> >
> >you did'nt mention what the bead looked like so i really would'nt be
> >able to identify the problem. i do know that a bead should be made once
> >because if you keep going over it, it'll just get worse each time.
> >
> >if you respond to this could you explain what the bead looks like,
> >smears, peaks, holes, splatters, etc....
> >
> >---Mike Savad
> Barbara J. Snell
> Dept. of Campus Life
> Cornell University
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

well, with solder anything is possible. holes usually occur when the
iron is too hot. you mentioned speckles, the iron is probably dirty, try
tinning the tip using a sal amoniac block. too much flux may cool the
iron, i would try wiping down the area with denatured alchohol, then
re-flux making sure there is'nt a ton. if it pastes up or gets peaky,
there is'nt enough flux, if it spatters too much flux. if you get holes,
the heat was on that area for too long, let it cool try it again. if you
keep getting holes (sink throughs) try putting dots of solder to make a
bead, dropping solder down here and there, letting the original (teeny
bead) cool, then join it with another small bead, kinda hard to explain
in text.  if by holes,  you meant, holes in the bead, (like little
volcanoes), again too much flux...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 14:28:14 1997
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X-Path: bridge.net!athena
From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:32:39 +0000
Message-ID: <199701202225.RAA27669@brickell.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'm a relative newbie to stained glass ... been doing it for just 
over a year, so *I* know nothing.

But I talked last week with a local established artist who does a lot 
of restoration as well as original works about a sidelight I'm doing 
for a fron entrance which will have some exposure.

He reminded me that the copper foil method was designed for interior 
lamps ... and that copper foil method won't last as long as the 
results of the leaded method.

He had seen copper foil "fall apart", he said, as soon as 20-30 
years. Leaded glass would last centuries, he said.

I pass it along for what it's worth.

 
M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails.

 
                                              |\                ( )
 _____________________________________________|_\_____________________
                                              -----             -_-_
                                                               -- - -
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 14:29:09 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: welp
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:22:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.122235.0>
References: <<1997Jan20.53749.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Rio Grande Valley Museum wrote:
> 
> M. Savad wrote:
> 
> "welp"  in previous discussions, and now, thanks to y'all, i understand
> - and wasn't completely confused when someone else (a scuba web
> acquaintance) used it too.  is this a regional thing, or everywhere else
> but south Texas?  just wanted to let you know how useful, in so many
> ways, this group is.  i appreciate all your hints and tips.  thanks.
> Linn
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i guess it depends what "mood" you want to start the conversion off
with, like "i dunno" is causaul...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 14:33:01 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:27:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan20.122721.0>
References: <<199701202005.OAA08063@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

len alcamo wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> Please excuse the following purist rant but......I think Mike S has
> described a curse of technology as applied to S.G. The cuts that you can
> make with a ring or band saw are not necessarily going to stand the test of
> time( example...the inside 90) as well the the rest of a carefully
> constructed piece. The old masters were more then capable of these exotic
> cuts with just a pair of pliers I know, I've seen them during restorations,
> but most of them crack and they were used infrequently. So what does that
> all mean? I think it suggests that S.G. has certain physical limitations and
> pieces should be designed accordingly. In my humble opinion its these
> limitations and working within them that give stained glass designs their
> uniqueness of line and form, otherwise it's just a drawing made into a
> panel. On the other hand if I see one more lead line coming out of the end
> of a birds beak I'm gonna scream!  ;-)
> 
> Len
> 
> 
> 
> >that of course is the bad side of using a bandsaw. you get next to
> >impossible places to foil, or sections so thin they break anyway. it's
> >alot more tricky, it takes a much longer time. i think i put down
> >foiling tips in my tips section on my page recently. if you go the front
> >page may lag, i'm having problems with my counter.
> >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


basically it all depends on how deep the cut is, if the beak is a
robins, though a pain to foil, it should'nt be a problem. but if you
make a cut for say an elephants trunk, your just asking for trouble. one
quick flex and it's crack-ola time. but for mosiacs or 3-d, or tough
glass, it's good. the old masters (i think) could break those curves,
because the glass was softer (like it did'nt have any perservatives in
it or something). 


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 20 18:30:05 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:35:22 +0000
Message-ID: <199701210229.VAA15670@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 
> He had seen copper foil "fall apart", he said, as soon as 20-30 
> years. Leaded glass would last centuries, he said.

There are a few examples of leaded glass that have lasted for 
centuries, but the rule of thumb is 100-150 years, depending on quite 
a number of variables. On the other hand, some leaded work completed 
and installed less than 50 years ago is falling apart; "pure lead" 
came is to blame for that, oftentimes ... the manufacturers pull 
out impurities (like silver) and hawk it as "pure" and, therefore 
"better," but it isn't. The so-called impurities make the lead 
stronger.

 
Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 00:42:11 1997
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From: "alaska.net" <rsully@Alaska.NET>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: 3" beveled rounders/w/1/8" hole
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:41:21 -0900 (AKST)
Message-ID: <199701210841.XAA19444@calvino.alaska.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Greetings from the Great NORTH;
      I NEED SOME HELP!!!! 
. Am looking for a good place to buy(cheep)3"round glass bevels/1/8"hole.
Living up here in GOD's country(ALASKA) I would like to find someplace on
the west coast of the USA(shipping)
   Can anybody help???
Thanks
Dick Sullivan
rsully@alaska.net

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 07:01:04 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: 3" beveled rounders/w/1/8" hole
Date:         Tue, 21 Jan 97 08:06:06 EST
Message-ID:   <970121.080739.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<199701210841.XAA19444@calvino.alaska.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I believe Armour sells them, to go along with their etching cream, etc..
I don't have their address on hand, but will look.  Maybe someone knows
if they have a web page.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 07:11:43 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Newsletter
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:10:41 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan21.151041.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>From a retailer standpoint, there are very few tools available that are as
finished, polished and presentable as Stained Glass News.  We have no
marketing departments to put nice brochures together for us.  The whole
point to buying SGN is to encourage people to come into our shop and look
around.  I pass out SGN to anyone that cares to come in, free of charge and
no purchase necessary.  Also, when I meet someone local that is teaching
students, I give them and their students discounts, and I give the teacher
copies of SGN to pass out in their classes.  I very much appreciate that
this type of marketing tool is available to retailers and I encourage Scott
to protect his retailer customers.  SGN is not a cheap marketing tool by any
means, but if your local retailer charges you for SGN or makes you buy
something to get it, then find another retailer.  

Sorry Barbara (and Elizabeth) to disagree with you, but if SGN where open to
subscription to non-retailers, then I think the whole focus of the
newsletter would have to change in order to accommodate that new group.
Please Scott, hold your ground, policies are put into place for a reason.......





 

At 05:58 AM 1/19/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Scott,
>I used to LOVE reading Stained Glass News - then I got "lucky" and started
>buying wholesale.  The downside to buying wholesale is I can no longer get
>your newsletter.  Won't you please consider subscriptions for people like me?
> Please, Please?  Barbara 
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 07:25:50 1997
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From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Cleaning Glass
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:24:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970121102546.262f5ee2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

         Good Morning All:
                My brother brought me some glass that he found in the
basement of the house he has just moved into.  It is glass that came from an
earlier window somewhere in the house, perhaps an attic dormer.  Anyway, the
pieces are very old and dirty.  There is clear glue chip, an opaque ripple
and a clear brown ripple.  
                I have had the glass soaking forever it seems with not much
luck in getting it clean.  Especially the glue chip.  It is lovely glass and
would love to reuse it....  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to clean
glass like this that has been in the elements for who knows how long.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara J. Snell
Jansen's Dining, Cornell University
255-5960
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 07:49:41 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:44:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan21.5446.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970121102546.262f5ee2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

B J Snell wrote:
> 
>          Good Morning All:
>                 My brother brought me some glass that he found in the
> basement of the house he has just moved into.  It is glass that came from an
> earlier window somewhere in the house, perhaps an attic dormer.  Anyway, the
> pieces are very old and dirty.  There is clear glue chip, an opaque ripple
> and a clear brown ripple.
>                 I have had the glass soaking forever it seems with not much
> luck in getting it clean.  Especially the glue chip.  It is lovely glass and
> would love to reuse it....  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to clean
> glass like this that has been in the elements for who knows how long.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Barbara J. Snell
> Jansen's Dining, Cornell University
> 255-5960
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it sounds like there is minerals on it, if soap and water and a scrub
bursh does'nt work. dry it off and try  lime and mineral remover, i've
used CLR (Calcium, Lime, and Rust remover). it comes in a grey bottle,
around $5.00. i found it really did a nice job on my crystals. and if
that does'nt work, (i'd only do this outside, and try it on a small
piece first), but maybe muriatoc (sp?) acid and water mix. you should
wear goggles, apron, gloves, and a acid gas resporator for this. this is
only a last chance effort.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 08:09:41 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:05:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan21.6540.0>
References: <<1997Jan21.5446.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

<snip>
Cleaning glass with muriatic acid=  there is a dilute form of this acid
available at pool supply companys.  Much less dangerous to work with. 
If you do use full strength-dont think you can get around the
precautions-especially the acid gas respirator@!!!  You will put
yourself in the hospital fast if you try.

The dilute form still needs to be used outside with a fan blowing away
from you.  But it works grreat on any glass, ceramic etc.  Always test
piece first, this is acid.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 08:11:56 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: welp
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:07:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan21.6751.0>
References: <<1997Jan20.53749.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
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In several areas I have lived, welp, is a contraction of "Well, perhaps"
it is interesting the different usasages in different areas of language.

Lee
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 08:58:52 1997
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From: April Paine <vgplugs@primeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Ivy patterns att:Jenny
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 12:03:30 PST
Message-ID: <1997Jan21.20330.0>
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Thanks I got the patterns in the mail...just what I was looking for...
let me know how I can return the favor...April

April
vgplugs@primeline.com
In The Smoky Mountains, Zone 6
Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass      "Where Gardening Is An Art."




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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 14:31:09 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:24:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan21.122455.0>
References: <<1997Jan21.6540.0>>
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leestat7 wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> Cleaning glass with muriatic acid=  there is a dilute form of this acid
> available at pool supply companys.  Much less dangerous to work with.
> If you do use full strength-dont think you can get around the
> precautions-especially the acid gas respirator@!!!  You will put
> yourself in the hospital fast if you try.
> 
> The dilute form still needs to be used outside with a fan blowing away
> from you.  But it works grreat on any glass, ceramic etc.  Always test
> piece first, this is acid.
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i have used an acid gas respirator, it does work, though i did'nt try
sniffing it. i do know that it was'nt fun to work with, even doing it
out side with fan..just know way to hold your breath it just always
get's in. basically that CLR stuff (i'm pretty sure anyway), is that
same acid, only they thinned it and added a little soap...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 15:10:14 1997
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From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:11:45 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan21.71145.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

To the 'Bungie Group';

American Bevel, Inc. is planning to hold seminars to teach how to use
our "Designer" software program. 

We are planning to tour all of our distributors and teach a class of
twenty-five people at each stop.

The seminar is a hands on class. Everyone will have the use of their own 
pentium computer. We will teach all aspects of the software program.
This will be a two day seminar. 

We do not know if we can publish a price here, so we won't until we hear
back from someone.

What we would like to know is if anyone is interested.

B. Rgds,

Richard Ashoff
American Bevel, Inc.
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 17:04:25 1997
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From: "alaska.net" <rsully@Alaska.NET>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:03:12 -0900 (AKST)
Message-ID: <199701220103.QAA07773@calvino.alaska.net>
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I am interested in the Designer seminar. Send more info 
Dick Sullivan   
rsully@alaska.netAt 03:11 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote:
>To the 'Bungie Group';
>
>American Bevel, Inc. is planning to hold seminars to teach how to use
>our "Designer" software program. 
>
>We are planning to tour all of our distributors and teach a class of
>twenty-five people at each stop.
>
>The seminar is a hands on class. Everyone will have the use of their own 
>pentium computer. We will teach all aspects of the software program.
>This will be a two day seminar. 
>
>We do not know if we can publish a price here, so we won't until we hear
>back from someone.
>
>What we would like to know is if anyone is interested.
>
>B. Rgds,
>
>Richard Ashoff
>American Bevel, Inc.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 18:25:30 1997
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From: Kay Allen <fullspec@scv.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:21:20 -0800
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970122022120.00665340@mail.scv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I'm interested, Richard.  Let me know more.

At 15:11 21-01-97 -0800, you wrote:
>To the 'Bungie Group';
>
>American Bevel, Inc. is planning to hold seminars to teach how to use
>our "Designer" software program. 
>
>We are planning to tour all of our distributors and teach a class of
>twenty-five people at each stop.
>
>The seminar is a hands on class. Everyone will have the use of their own 
>pentium computer. We will teach all aspects of the software program.
>This will be a two day seminar. 
>
>We do not know if we can publish a price here, so we won't until we hear
>back from someone.
>
>What we would like to know is if anyone is interested.
>
>B. Rgds,
>
>Richard Ashoff
>American Bevel, Inc.
>----
>.

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 21 22:15:24 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:14:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan21.201448.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd be very interested in attending a class on you designer program.  If I
remember correctly I saw it at Nashville and it looked great.  I'd be taking
my class at Hoy's.  Barbara Fernandez    Breckenridge Glass Studio

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 22 03:22:41 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: 22 Jan 97 06:19:29 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan22.111929.0>
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Precedence: bulk

Barbara J. Snell asked:
<Does anyone have any suggestions on how to clean glass like this that has been
in the elements for who knows how long.>

After soaking in warm soapy water for a while, I take a brillo pad or a Scott
Brite pad to it.  Don't be afraid to use lots of elbow grease.  After all, what
do you have to loose?
...Christie

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 22 04:27:49 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: welp and other things
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:29:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan22.22932.0>
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Precedence: bulk

At the risk of rialing every one up, I think the differences in the way we 
speak is interesting. My husband is from the mid-west and he has an unusual 
use of the word "yet" (at least unusual to me). He uses it where I would 
use the word "still" as in " My uncle lives there yet." where I would say, 
"My uncle still lives there." It just gives me a pause when I listen to 
him. Now, "welp", that sounds perfectly okay to me.

Linda


Lee said:
In several areas I have lived, welp, is a contraction of "Well, perhaps"
it is interesting the different usasages in different areas of language.


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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:19:36 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530500af0bd195a35d@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I hesitate to suggest this, but here goes: I have used Liquid Plumber to
clean tough stains on various metal and glass objects, none that I consider
irreplaceable.  I mix equal amounts of LP and water in a pan or tub and let
the object soak overnight. The next morning I rinse thoroughly. I have
never tried it on stained glass, but if you've tried everything else . . .

=Gary




>Barbara J. Snell asked:
><Does anyone have any suggestions on how to clean glass like this that has been
>in the elements for who knows how long.>
>
>After soaking in warm soapy water for a while, I take a brillo pad or a Scott
>Brite pad to it.  Don't be afraid to use lots of elbow grease.  After all, what
>do you have to loose?
>...Christie
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Wed Jan 22 09:08:13 1997
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X-Path: internexus.net!lwaldeck
From: Lew Waldeck <lwaldeck@internexus.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:04:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan21.14436.0>
References: <<1997Jan21.71145.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Speak For Yourself
Precedence: bulk

Richard davis Ashoff wrote:
> 
> To the 'Bungie Group';
> 
> American Bevel, Inc. is planning to hold seminars to teach how to use
> our "Designer" software program.
> 
> We are planning to tour all of our distributors and teach a class of
> twenty-five people at each stop.
> 

> What we would like to know is if anyone is interested.
> 
> B. Rgds,
> 
> Richard Ashoff
> American Bevel, Inc.

Yes, my wife Mary would like me to attend since I'm the C-geek in the
household.  We are in Leonia, New Jersey, which is near the GW Bridge.

Thanks
Lew
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Please visit my web site at 
"http://members.tripod.com/~LewW/index.html"

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 22 10:57:01 1997
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From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:00:49 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan22.7049.0>
References: <<v01530500af0bd195a35d@[129.119.37.12]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

Gary Shultz wrote:
> 
> I hesitate to suggest this, but here goes: I have used Liquid Plumber 
> >Barbara J. Snell asked:
> ><Does anyone have any suggestions on how to clean glass like this that has been
> >in the elements for who knows how long.>

Hi!  I posed the "stained glass cleaning question" on a museum group. 
One person suggested asking a curator at your local museum?  Then
someone else said "old glass may have a number of problems other than
being "dirty".  Glass, depending on its manufacture, is slightly soluble
in water.  The less water, the more damaging because alkalis leached
from the glass raise the pH of the solution.  The silica structure of
glass is damaged by alkali solutions and can be damaged by very strong
acids.  damp deteriorated glass may have water filling space in the
structure, causing cracking and crumbling when the glass is
dried....They suggest that if you value the glass, you might want a
conservator whose spec. is glass to clean it for you.  If you really
want to go that route, try calling The Amer. Inst. for Conservation @
202/452-9545.  If it's not that precious, you try Gary's suggestion,
once you've tried everything else.........Please let the list (or at
least me) know what you decide and how it works - now I'm curious. 
Thanks.  Linn
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 22 12:09:03 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:07:48 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199701222007.OAA00269@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

BJ,

I use a product called Glass Wax it comes in a neat pink 50's looking can
with red lettering. It's solvent based and you rub it on and let it dry to a
powder then buff it off just like a car wax. It removes a high percentage of
most types of grunge, even paint flecks are loosened for easy scraping. The
nice thing about it that you don't have to mess with a water supply. It also
leaves a nice smooth finish with no streaks. Works best on smoother
surfaces.  You might not be able to find it everywhere. In my opinion it's
pretty good stuff. Anyway the can looks kinda cool sitting up on a shelf. :-)

I do not sell this product or am I in anyway associated with the manufacturer  

Len


>Barbara J. Snell asked:
><Does anyone have any suggestions on how to clean glass like this that has been
>in the elements for who knows how long.>
>
>After soaking in warm soapy water for a while, I take a brillo pad or a Scott
>Brite pad to it.  Don't be afraid to use lots of elbow grease.  After all, what
>do you have to loose?
>...Christie


Maybe some of that flabby stuff that hangs down on the back of the old upper
arm ;-)

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 22 13:17:11 1997
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From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Welp
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 14:16:38 -0700
Message-ID: <m0vnA2C-000Li4C@why.az.stratus.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

I thought it might be this person, an abstract that was listed in the e-zine  
mini-AIR (http://www.improb.com/):

* "Why Do People Accept Job Offers?," by Tanika Welp. Welp gives
an appreciation of the work of researchers Daniel Turban, James
Campion, and Alison Eyering. Turban, Campion, and Eyering
published a landmark paper in the research publication "Journal of
Vocational Behavior," in which they conclude that when someone
gets a job offer:

a. if he is UNLIKELY to accept the offer,
then he probably WILL NOT accept it.

b. if he is LIKELY to accept the offer,
then he probably WILL accept it.

:-)
---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 22 15:03:55 1997
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From: mcastle@uninet.net (Martin Castle)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:05:03 -0500
Message-ID: <v01540b05af0c4d6b08c6@[206.137.208.26]>
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I would be interested in attending your seminar if you are going to be in
the state of Maine.

Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941

207 382 6207                  207 382 6207

Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
Islesboro Central School      Unity College
PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
Islesboro Maine 04848

207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220

207 734 8159 Fax

email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net

You can't be lost if you don't care where you are.








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From owner-glass Wed Jan 22 15:29:23 1997
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From: April Paine <vgplugs@primeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Archives Att:Glenna
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 18:34:23 PST
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.23423.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

I had a question about the archives and I couldn't find you personal 
e-mail address...I'm creating an archive for my list and posting it to
the WWW and was wondering about the format/file type and editing.
Could you help me?? 

April
vgplugs@primeline.com
In The Smoky Mountains, Zone 6
Victorian Greenhouse & Stained Glass      "Where Gardening Is An Art."




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From owner-glass Wed Jan 22 16:16:45 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:12:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan22.141232.0>
References: <<1997Jan21.71145.0>>
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<snip>

> American Bevel, Inc. is planning to hold seminars to teach how to use
> our "Designer" software program.

I would be interested in attending the seminar in the Sarasota, Florida
area,  the home of "Glass Crafters" 

 http://www.craftweb.com/org/glascrafts/glascraf.shtml

Let me know so I can book early-

Richard or Jim-(of Glass Crafters)  I know you read this list, consider
this an early reservation.  ;-)  I have gotten side tracked by some home
decorating projects (my house) but expect to get back to glass work next
week.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 22 16:44:03 1997
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From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:43:09 -0500
Message-ID: <9701230043.AA12828@water.waterw.com>
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Christie wrote,
>>After soaking in warm soapy water for a while, I take a brillo pad or a Scott
>>Brite pad to it.  Don't be afraid to use lots of elbow grease.  After all,
what
>>do you have to loose?
>>...Christie
>
>
>Maybe some of that flabby stuff that hangs down on the back of the old upper
>arm ;-)



Couldn't have said it better mysel Christief.!! LOL> Cheaper than the gym.

Also if this is a lead panel....when you recement ,we use linseed oil and
turp., this in combination with whiting will help clean the lead and the
glass itself.

I aslo agree with the glass wax....we buy it by the case.

my best,
pj

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 22 20:24:00 1997
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From: Kristen <wrightk5@pilot.msu.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:27:17 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan22.162717.0>
References: <<v01530500af0bd195a35d@[129.119.37.12]>>
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> >Barbara J. Snell asked:
> ><Does anyone have any suggestions on how to clean glass like this that has been
> >in the elements for who knows how long.>

Someone suggested chempro to me. I had some stingey spots on a bevel and
after wipping it down with the Chempro the spotts were out. Another
suggestion is to use black patina-- yes this does work on mineral
deposits, but if you don't want the whole project to be black you may
want to clean the mineral deposits before you solder( or steel wool
after). both of these are less hazardous and work.
-- 
[ Kristen                                                      ]       
[ wrightk5@pilot.msu.edu                                       ]
[                                                              ]
[ I speak for my self and only represent everything that I am. ]
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 03:48:28 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:46:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.14618.0>
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Kristen wrote:
> 
> > >Barbara J. Snell asked:
> > ><Does anyone have any suggestions on how to clean glass like this that has been
> > >in the elements for who knows how long.

After taking a restoration seminar with Arthur Femenella (escuse the 
spelling Art!) I looked back through my notes and found the suggestion 
of soaking in Spic and Span.  But the clear glue chip glass may never 
look like it did originally because of the change in the glass chemicals 
causing it to change possibly purplish.  Old clear glass is not stable 
for some reason.

Hope that you get what you want out of this whole process.  I too had 
some old glass I wanted to use from a church window restoration and 
never could get it to look usable again because of the degradation of th 
chemicals in the clear glass.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran.
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 04:05:54 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Welp
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:03:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.2355.0>
References: <<m0vnA2C-000Li4C@why.az.stratus.com>>
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Charles Spitzer wrote:
> 
> I thought it might be this person, an abstract that was listed in the e-zine
> mini-AIR (http://www.improb.com/):
> 
> * "Why Do People Accept Job Offers?," by Tanika Welp. Welp gives
> an appreciation of the work of researchers Daniel Turban, James
> Campion, and Alison Eyering. Turban, Campion, and Eyering
> published a landmark paper in the research publication "Journal of
> Vocational Behavior," in which they conclude that when someone
> gets a job offer:
> 
> a. if he is UNLIKELY to accept the offer,
> then he probably WILL NOT accept it.
> 
> b. if he is LIKELY to accept the offer,
> then he probably WILL accept it.
> 
> :-)
> ---


Sorry, but what's this got to do with stained glass?  I think we've 
gotten WAY off track on this line.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 04:49:05 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:54:34 +0000
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>  soaking in Spic and Span.  But the clear glue chip glass may never 
> look like it did originally because of the change in the glass chemicals 
> causing it to change possibly purplish.  Old clear glass is not stable 
> for some reason.
> Hope that you get what you want out of this whole process.  I too had 
> some old glass I wanted to use from a church window restoration and 
> never could get it to look usable again because of the degradation of th 
> chemicals in the clear glass.

If "usable" means "like new," why would you want that? (Just 
curious.)

There's quite a bit on cleaning in Julie Sloan's
"Conservation of Stained Glass in America" ( 1995, Art in
Architecture Press, http://www.aiap.com ).  Just a few
examples:

  Abrasive cleansers, like Ajax or Comet, or cleaning
  materials, like steel wool or fiberglass brushes, can leave
  permanent scratches in glass and should be avoided.

  cleaned and degreased with acetone [when edge-gluing]

  The deterioration of paints on windows of older periods, as
  well as of the nineteenth century, can also be caused by the
  corrosive effects of various cleaning materials. As
  illustration of this, it is useful to look at how
  nineteenth-century craftspeople cleaned medieval stained
  glass windows. Not understanding how medieval artists used
  paint, "aging crusts" were removed from windows using
  hydrofluoric acid, one of the most corrosive acids known,
  used in glass decoration because of its effectiveness in
  dissolving glass. These "crusts" were often in reality
  matted shadows

  In some instances, old glass was cleaned with hydrofluoric
  acid to remove its original paint so that the glass could be
  repainted and reused elsewhere. Vast quantities of medieval
  stained glass were cleaned in this manner and mistakenly
  destroyed of all historic value.

  Perhaps the principal cause of deterioration of cold paints
  is washing the windows. The combination of cleaning agents,
  many of which can dissolve cold paint, and the scrubbing
  action removes much cold paint. Often cold paint is
  difficult for laymen to identify, especially if the surface
  of the window is very dirty. Many times it is accurately
  identified, but removed anyway on the often-mistaken
  assumption that it is not an appropriate stained glass
  technique.

  Consequently, the wish to replace deteriorated pieces with
  completely new pieces, which is often done in conjunction
  with the over-cleaning of windows, all in the name of re-
  creation of the original appearance, is usually harmful to
  the windows and ultimately diminishes their value.

  the cleaning of the west front windows of Chartres Cathedral
  in the 1970s resulted in a world-wide outcry that the
  windows had been ruined by over-cleaning, that the color of
  the famous blue glass had been changed, forever altering the
  spiritual gloom of the cathedral's interior.

  Dirt and airborne pollutants are unquestionably damaging to
  them. However, it is not at all uncommon for American
  windows to suffer damage from over-cleaning, which can cause
  irrevocable loss of material critical to our understanding
  of them. Many of the windows of John La Farge, for example,
  have suffered this ignominy. In one case, every shred of oil
  paint, which La Farge used extensively, had been
  meticulously cleaned off one panel of a pair, but not off
  the other, which is how we know the paint had existed.

  It is important to fully understand the purpose of cleaning
  stained glass windows. To most people, cleaning means
  removing the dirt that obscures the glass and making the
  window as sparkling as when it was new. This is both
  incomplete and not quite accurate. In the first place, we
  are dealing with an old window. Why should it look new?
  After all, being old is nothing to be ashamed of. Other
  antiques are valued for their old appearance. There is great
  danger in over-cleaning, and it is always better to err on
  the side of conservatism in restoration. Windows can be
  damaged and devalued if they are over-cleaned, and can lose
  a certain quality of light and color, which was clearly
  demonstrated in the 1970s at Chartres Cathedral. It is
  always wise to exercise restraint in the removal of dirt.



Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 04:49:06 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Welp
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:54:34 +0000
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> Sorry, but what's this got to do with stained glass?  I think we've 
> gotten WAY off track on this line.

Thread drift occurs when *people get involved. Take the people out of 
the equation and replace them with computers ... voila! no deviation 
from path! <g>

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 05:57:06 1997
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From: "Julie L. Sloan" <jsloan@mail.computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <jsloan@mail.computer.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:53:47 +0000
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Re Barbara Snell's inquiry about cleaning glass and Joyce Moran's 
suggestion of Spic and Span:

There are several points to consider:
1.  Is the glass in question painted?  If so, DO NOT use Spin and 
Span or any other abrasive cleanser, it will remove the paint.  Use 
only VM&P petroleum naphtha (available in hardware stores).
2.  Is the glass textured?  This will make removal of dirt in the 
textures a more difficult process, and it may impossible to fully 
remove it.
3.  What kind of dirt are you trying to remove?  Is it a crust, is it 
an iridescent film, is it a discoloration, etc.?

Simply soaking in Spin and Span probably won't have any more effect 
than just soaking in water.  It's the abrasive in Spin and Span that 
works, but it can also irreversibly scratch glass.  If an abrasive is 
absolutely necessary -- and use abrasives ONLY on unpainted glass -- 
use Bon Ami, which does not scratch glass.  A lot of old glasses are
very soft and can easily scratch.  Not only are scratches unsightly, 
they are also places that will trap water and corrode much more 
quickly in the future.

Soaking in water alone may soften the dirt enough to be removed with 
very fine steel wool (000-- and test on a small area to be sure it doesn't 
scratch) or with stiff brushes.  You may have to soak overnight or 
for a couple of days.

Also try solvents like ammonia, alcohol, naphtha, or acetone, but be sure 
you work with gloves on and in a ventilated area.  And again, use these 
ONLY if the glass is not painted.  Do not combine solvents either.

There are some films that cannot be removed.  If the glass has begun 
to corrode, the film will be part of the glass and not removable 
without a serious, and highly destructive, assault with 
air-abrasives.  If the film is iridescent and largely transparent, 
it's probably this kind of film.  Your best bet is to leave it alone.

Regarding Joyce's comments on the glass changing color:  Some, not 
all, old clear glass did change color to become faintly purplish (this can 
also happen in other colors as well).  Joyce is right, that you can't 
change this back to clear.  But not all old glass changes to this 
color, and the change does not mean the glass is unstable -- only the 
excess manganese that was used to make the glass clear was unstable, 
and turning purple made it stable.

Good luck,
Julie Sloan
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 07:20:31 1997
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From: Jim Jablonski <jimjab@sprintmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Catalogs
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:21:22 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan22.232122.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am new to this group and have fun reading your comments.
I started Stained Glass a year ago, and after 4 months the local glass
store went out of buisness.
So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
at price, selection and quality?

By the way,  Mike Savad said " you can tune a guitar, but you can't
tuna fish."
Did you know the way to tuna fish is to play up 'n down it's scales? :)

Thx in advance for your future resonses.
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 07:45:45 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:39:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.53958.0>
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Jim Jablonski wrote:
> 
> I am new to this group and have fun reading your comments.
> I started Stained Glass a year ago, and after 4 months the local glass
> store went out of buisness.
> So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
> at price, selection and quality?
> 
> By the way,  Mike Savad said " you can tune a guitar, but you can't
> tuna fish."
> Did you know the way to tuna fish is to play up 'n down it's scales? :)
> 
> Thx in advance for your future resonses.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


every catalog has their own set of prices, some are higher but with
better service. i have a few stores to choose from so i don't have worry
about catalogs. the way i tell how a catalog or a store has good prices
is by looking at the solder prices..not the most accurate way mind you,
but it works more or less for me. i found that the average price for
solder (at least in NJ,USA), is about $7.00 for 60-40 and about $6.00
for 50-50. so if the catalog is selling their solder for 10 bucks,
that's pretty pricey. a local craft store near me (Pearl Paint for
anyone familar to it), has stained glass supplies at about 3 times the
price that you would pay at a stained glass store...the only advantage
to shopping there is sometimes the prices are messed up, due to
moronatude i guess. what happens is they sometimes put down their cost
instead of those high prices they usally have. once i got solder for
$2.00 a roll, i really wish i bought more than 3 rolls, along with that
the foil at the time was $1.00 and chemicals were around the same
price...too bad they found the mistake...:(

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 08:02:45 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:58:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.55812.0>
References: <<199701231248.HAA29890@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 

I note this comment below-  Some in the eastern part of the US may have
seen the news stories of the Unusual glass markings on a building in
Clearwater Florida, over the Christmas Holidays (the stains are still
there) It appears that for whatever reason, the image of a Madonna is
perceived  in the front windows of the building. Just a note of
interest-on weathering and chemical stain. 
<snip>
  The deterioration of paints on windows of older periods, as
  well as of the nineteenth century, can also be caused by the
 corrosive effects of various cleaning materials. As
  illustration of this, it is useful to look at how
  nineteenth-century craftspeople cleaned medieval stained
  glass windows. Not understanding how medieval artists used
  paint, "aging crusts" were removed from windows using
  hydrofluoric acid, one of the most corrosive acids known,
  used in glass decoration because of its effectiveness in
  dissolving glass. These "crusts" were often in reality
  matted shadows

  In some instances, old glass was cleaned with hydrofluoric
  acid to remove its original paint so that the glass could be
  repainted and reused elsewhere. Vast quantities of medieval
  stained glass were cleaned in this manner and mistakenly
  destroyed of all historic value.
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 08:10:21 1997
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From: "Edward W. Reitmann" <oddjob@calhoun.lakes.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re:Glass cleaning
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:05:04 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.454.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I 've had luck cleaning other kinds of tough stains on glass (not =
stained glass) with "Lime-Away" and "Polident" denture cleaner. Don't =
mix the two together, try them separately.
Regards, Sue

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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 10:39:31 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:44:54 +0000
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> I note this comment below-  Some in the eastern part of the US may have
> seen the news stories of the Unusual glass markings on a building in
> Clearwater Florida, over the Christmas Holidays (the stains are still
> there) It appears that for whatever reason, the image of a Madonna is
> perceived  in the front windows of the building. Just a note of
> interest-on weathering and chemical stain. 

That wasn't Madonna; it was Evita.

Albert

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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 13:54:17 1997
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From: LByrne21@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:53:14 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.115314.0>
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Very interested in attending a seminar.

                                        Lavergne
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 15:41:20 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:44:37 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.164437.0>
References: <<1997Jan19.212755.0>>
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Jerri M Roey wrote:
> 
> Thanks everyone for the outside advice.  Shirley, the fishing swivel is a
> great idea.  I was worried about our hot and humid summers here in the
> south.  I just pictured coming home and finding solder and foil still
> hanging with the glass on the ground.  As for the bird house, I was
> thinking of either painting the hole, or using black glass for the piece
> to fill it.  It's bad enough my husband thinks I'm running a shelter for
> homeless dogs, I don't need any brain damaged birds ;)
> 
> Jerri
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassYou also....have homeless dogs, I now have 7, was 8 in Oct. but Timey 
went to the rainbow bridge after 17 years of shared companionship.
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 15:42:11 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:45:35 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.164535.0>
References: <<1997Jan19.115034.0>>
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Robert E. Jones wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 pmpalm@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> > theory that the pressure of teeth-on-tongue (or lip) is directly
> > proportional to the pressure of cutter-on-glass, thus affecting the
> > outcome for good or ill.  Anyone else have any experience with this?  :-)
> >
> > With tongue firmly in cheek,   Peggy
> 
> It is my experience that the pressure on the tongue is in direct
> proportion to the cost of the glass you are cutting.
> 
> Bob
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassI believe you are right....very correct.
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 15:44:46 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting inside curves
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:48:19 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.164819.0>
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M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Robert E. Jones wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 pmpalm@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >
> > > theory that the pressure of teeth-on-tongue (or lip) is directly
> > > proportional to the pressure of cutter-on-glass, thus affecting the
> > > outcome for good or ill.  Anyone else have any experience with this?  :-)
> > >
> > > With tongue firmly in cheek,   Peggy
> >
> > It is my experience that the pressure on the tongue is in direct
> > proportion to the cost of the glass you are cutting.
> >
> > Bob
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> yeah something like that, i know, i almost passed out when cutting the
> Youg. glass for the water in the lamp... not to mention tipping over
> becuae of the complexity of the cut.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassYough is near me. I found when cutting yough to heat the glass over 
light bulbs and to use plenty of oil on my cutter. It then was not the 
glass from hell.
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 16:20:49 1997
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From: LByrne21@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:20:08 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.14208.0>
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Whoops! Forgot to say would be very interested in attending a seminar......in
the Newark,New Jersey Area.

                            Lavergne
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 16:48:07 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:06:58 +0000
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Len (Alcamo),
  Interesting tip, interesting product. Could you source it for me 
and possibly get 1-2 cans/tins to one of the group in USA leaving for 
UK to join the Chartres trip in April?? (If they agree - of course...).
Cleaning grunge off old glass for restoration work has always been a 
headache for me. Scotchbrite and wirewool is just too risky. 
Vicious Chemicals frighten the daylight out of me. Old 
glass IS just that more fragile and "powdery" and scratches so 
easily. 
Have been looking for product to help for YEARS - not to replace 
"elbow grease", but just to help a bit.
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Len wrote:

I use a product called Glass Wax it comes in a neat pink 50's looking can
with red lettering. It's solvent based and you rub it on and let it dry to a
powder then buff it off just like a car wax. It removes a high percentage of
most types of grunge, even paint flecks are loosened for easy 
scraping.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 16:48:08 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:06:58 +0000
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Gary,
What exactly IS "Liquid Plumber". Sounds interesting...
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Gary wrote:
I hesitate to suggest this, but here goes: I have used Liquid Plumber to
clean tough stains on various metal and glass objects,
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 16:48:13 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: welp and other things
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:06:58 +0000
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Hi Linda,
Did you count on getting the "linguist" Elisabeth up and going 
again....?? Well you did.!
Your husband's usage of "yet" is curious and is one I haven't come 
across before. As a "puritan", I would say it's incorrect. The only 
connection  between "yet" and "still" is in their  common usage in 
the meaning of "but" / "despite", for example:
He knew it was wrong, STILL he did it
He knew it was wrong, YET he did it
Both versions are linguistically and grammatically correct.
I have worked so many years for an American company in UK, , yet (!) 
only now in my communications with you in Glass@Bungi do the various 
English language differences really hit home. This occasionally leads 
to misunderstandings, misconceptions and confusion.
Luckily, there is an awful lot of good-will and effort to help each 
other understand  one another. Your input highlights this.
Thank you Linda for the reminder. 

Elisabeth 'n Toby
Linda wrote:
At the risk of rialing every one up, I think the differences in the way we 
speak is interesting. My husband is from the mid-west and he has an unusual 
use of the word "yet" (at least unusual to me). He uses it where I would 
use the word "still" as in " My uncle lives there yet." where I would say, 
"My uncle still lives there." It just gives me a pause when I listen to 
him. Now, "welp", that sounds perfectly okay to me.

 different usasages in different areas of language.


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 16:48:30 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:06:58 +0000
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Joyce,
"Spic and Span" in UK is a floor cleaner.... Are we talking about the 
same product???
Interesting idea.
Yes, otherwhise agree with you; restoration projects fiendishly 
difficult ones. They must give me heart attacks every time. The funny 
thing is, so very often you encounter problems where you least expect 
them. Right now I am involved in restoring an early Victorian 
(leaded) panel. It contains background glass of  clear Flemish. It looked so 
straight forward, I did not anticipate any problem. There jolly well 
is, because the clear Flemish is a particular  type  of SIZE, called 
SMALL Flemish. (There are so many variations of Flemish, including an 
English Flemish ( sort of contradiction - but OK) But this particular 
SMALL Flemish has not been manufactured in UK or Europe for the last 
50 years. I need about 12" x 12" in total.
Any thoughts???? 
IF and only IF,  anyone could help me out to source it, I will then 
turn "cap in hand" to one of my  UK visitors from "Across the Pond" perhaps
 to carry it with them in April from USA to UK.

But, Oh yes.... why DO I take on restoration work and repairs...??!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Joyce wrote:
After taking a restoration seminar with Arthur Femenella (escuse the 
spelling Art!) I looked back through my notes and found the suggestion 
of soaking in Spic and Span. 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 16:48:31 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Welp
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:06:58 +0000
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Albert,
Agree. I am probably the "living proof" of it when I get on my 
"linguistic hobby horse". Yet my style, input and "crankiness" 
obviously amuse, help and inspire quite a number of you. It has led 
on to the most informative & fun exchanges about Swedish meatballs, rotting 
herrings, Viking mythology, prowess of Mexican men and God only knows 
what else, "Off-Group"...  People are only human. If they are not 
human - they wouldn't be people.  So... there's gotta be a certain 
amount of elasticity and "meandering" allowed. Don't know if anyone 
actually remembers at this stage, but it was actually ME myself who 
asked Mike S. what he meant by "welp" ('cause I couldn't find it in 
my "computer-speak" dictionary... It had puzzled me for MONTHS..).
Sure, I too was a bit surprised by the additional definition of "Mrs. 
WELP". "Glass@Bungi is a wonderful and warm launching pad for 
personal exchanges by the fact that we ALL have stained glass in 
common. We care passionately about our chosen hobby or trade.
It's only through the "diversions" that we have got to know each 
other as people and as human beings.
THAT is important too.
If I admire the work of an Artist or a Craftsman, I will want to know 
and GET to know the REAL person behind the Art and the Craft and - as 
they say in UK - what makes them tick.
On the whole, this is what has happened in this Group.Dipping in and 
out (as a WEB-Newbie) this is why I myself feel I have from you all a 
different dimension that is very valuable.
There is always the delete button.... (Even I have found that one!)
So you chose to read it and grin - or you delete it. What the hell...
As they say, .. it all adds to the rich quilt pattern of life....

Elisabeth 'n Toby

Albert wrote:
Thread drift occurs when *people get involved. Take the people out of 
the equation and replace them with computers ... voila! no deviation 
from path! <g>

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 16:48:32 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:06:58 +0000
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Julie Sloan,
  .... and where did YOU come from....?
Thank you so much for your input and contribution. You are absolutely 
and perfectly right. You have addressed most issues succinctly and 
correctly. Please stay with us.
I have saved your message. Delighted to hear from you. Get the feel 
that you really know what you are talking about.
Thank you
Elisabeth 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 16:48:32 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:06:58 +0000
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Oh Sigh...!!
Don't suppose you could make a little detour to UK...? Would have  4 
groups of 30 people each absolutely hanging on your every word... (As 
would I...)
Elisabeth 'n Toby
Richard Aschoff wrote:

American Bevel, Inc. is planning to hold seminars to teach how to use
our "Designer" software program. 

We are planning to tour all of our distributors and teach a class of
twenty-five people at each stop.

The seminar is a hands on class. Everyone will have the use of their own 
pentium computer. We will teach all aspects of the software program.
This will be a two day seminar. 

We do not know if we can publish a price here, so we won't until we hear
back from someone.

What we would like to know is if anyone is interested.

B. Rgds,

Richard Ashoff
American Bevel, Inc.
----
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 16:48:33 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:06:58 +0000
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Hi Jim
Welcome aboard.
Don't allow some of these "oldies" to intimidate you!!  For 
"Newbies" like yourself, have a look at Mike Savad's home-page on 
"The Quiet".   He is helpful, informative, generous and quite an 
innovator as regards copper-foil, as in deed is Len Alcamo And yes, 
. Howard Rubin - when he choses to 
appear - likewhise; he is one of our founding fathers; if you want a 
balance between copperfoil and lead listen to pj.Friend; if you want 
to BUY  (especially Mail Order) you can do worse than turning to Stehpanie 
at Delphi; if you 
are looking towards promotioin, marketing, learning, courses, 
exhibitions, "happenings" and a bit of "bunker culture"listen to 
Albert; to keep safe, healthy and legal and hit the daisies in your 
90's, listen to Monona
Just look, read and listen.
We ALL care
And ... NO... I am not excluding anybody....
Elisabeth ' n Toby


JIM wrote:
 4 months the local glass
store went out of buisness.
So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
at price, selection and quality?

By the way,  Mike Savad said " you can tune a guitar, but you can't
tuna fish."
Did you know the way to tuna fish is to play up 'n down it's scales? :)

Thx in advance for your future resonses.
----
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 17:35:20 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:29:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.152943.0>
References: <<199701240047.AAA32728@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Joyce,
> "Spic and Span" in UK is a floor cleaner.... Are we talking about the
> same product???
> Interesting idea.
> Yes, otherwhise agree with you; restoration projects fiendishly
> difficult ones. They must give me heart attacks every time. The funny
> thing is, so very often you encounter problems where you least expect
> them. Right now I am involved in restoring an early Victorian
> (leaded) panel. It contains background glass of  clear Flemish. It looked so
> straight forward, I did not anticipate any problem. There jolly well
> is, because the clear Flemish is a particular  type  of SIZE, called
> SMALL Flemish. (There are so many variations of Flemish, including an
> English Flemish ( sort of contradiction - but OK) But this particular
> SMALL Flemish has not been manufactured in UK or Europe for the last
> 50 years. I need about 12" x 12" in total.
> Any thoughts????
> IF and only IF,  anyone could help me out to source it, I will then
> turn "cap in hand" to one of my  UK visitors from "Across the Pond" perhaps
>  to carry it with them in April from USA to UK.
> 
> But, Oh yes.... why DO I take on restoration work and repairs...??!!
> Elisabeth 'n Toby
> 
> Joyce wrote:
> After taking a restoration seminar with Arthur Femenella (escuse the
> spelling Art!) I looked back through my notes and found the suggestion
> of soaking in Spic and Span.
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it's kinda hard to see the texture by description. though, is it
important that the texture is there so you see it in the reflection? or
do see the texture through the light? if you see it through the light,
maybe you can get a a couple of sheets and "plate" it. like two sheets
of Spectrum granite, and cross grain it, (like plywood). 

if the pieces are cracked you may just have to glue it...but i guess you
knew that one...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 17:39:30 1997
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X-Path: sagelink.net!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@sagelink.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:39:11 -0600
Message-ID: <199701240250.UAA24518@sage.sagelink.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


Here is an economical glass cleaning mixture that really works and doesn't
smell too bad.

1 gallon water
1 cup white vinegar
1/2 cup amoania (clear not sudsy)
1 tablespoon corn starch

I've been using it for quite a while and it cleans without streaks.

Pat in Texas
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 18:25:36 1997
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From: Elsie Turqman <ElsieTurqman@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Cuttin glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 02:13:14 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan24.21314.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

A question on cutting technique from a semi-lurker who enjoys the byplay as
well as the info on glass.

Do you draw the cutter toward you or push it away from you when you are
cutting  out a pattern.  I have been working on and off with stained glass
since the late 1970's and never thought about my style of cutting, but a
friend asked me today if there was a correct method of drawing the cutter
across the glass.  I push it away but he was taught to draw it towards himself.

Is there a correct method or is it whatever floats you boat.

Elsie

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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 18:41:39 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:35:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.163533.0>
References: <<1997Jan24.21314.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elsie Turqman wrote:
> 
> A question on cutting technique from a semi-lurker who enjoys the byplay as
> well as the info on glass.
> 
> Do you draw the cutter toward you or push it away from you when you are
> cutting  out a pattern.  I have been working on and off with stained glass
> since the late 1970's and never thought about my style of cutting, but a
> friend asked me today if there was a correct method of drawing the cutter
> across the glass.  I push it away but he was taught to draw it towards himself.
> 
> Is there a correct method or is it whatever floats you boat.
> 
> Elsie
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the correst way is what ever way works for you. i push the cutter when
doing curves, it allows me to see the line as i cut. i used to pull. i
pull the cutter when going against a straight edge, for more control.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 19:09:23 1997
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Elsie Turqman <ElsieTurqman@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 19:07:03 -0500
Message-ID: <199701240308.TAA16279@kim.teleport.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

I find it easier to cut away from myself, mainly because following the
pattern line dictates it. I suppose if one practiced or used the see through
the glass on a light table method, either way would be ok.

enjoy.........H
--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 19:15:58 1997
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X-Path: webtv.net!rickbruser
From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:15:25 -0800
Message-ID: <199701240315.TAA20671@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi, I`m a newcomer, so I will just jump right in.    I have cut glass in
both directions, depending on the situation.  It didn`t seem to matter.
The glass cleaning issue seems to have  stirred up some ideas. I do a
lot of glass gilding, which  demands critcal cleaning. I first use Bon
Ami,     leaving it on a couple of minutes, then I have      been using
Cerrium Oxide Powder in the same  manner.

Rick Bruser
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 20:03:18 1997
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:01:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.1819.0>
References: <<199701240047.AAA32728@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Joyce,
> "Spic and Span" in UK is a floor cleaner.... Are we talking about the
> same product???
> Interesting idea.

Yes that's what the notes say...floor cleaner.  And it says soak, not 
scrub.  I think the combination of the soap and the bleach type stuff 
are the idea...I don't do restoration work, mostly because I do copper 
foil.  But the one church window I traded for, is pretty darn ugly, and 
I was hoping to use the glass for something entirely different.  Too bad 
the glass is in too bad of shape to ever do what I wanted with it.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 20:52:03 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:48:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.18481.0>
References: <<199701240315.TAA20671@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Rick,

You mention guilding glass, a subject I've wondered about-I would like
to guild some patterns on a piece of glass, and possibly guild the
solder lines in a Stained Glass Jewelry box.  (I make a lot of 3D
pieces) would you please let me know the technique you use, and if it
could guild solder lines too??? I have a small jewelers pen plating kit
that I have not used yet. Thanks in advance for any tips you would
share.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations   


Rick Bruser wrote:

> The glass cleaning issue seems to have  stirred up some ideas. I do a
> lot of glass gilding, which  demands critcal cleaning.
----
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 21:29:56 1997
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From: "Michael J. Baker" <mikebakr@skypoint.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: news stuff on page
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:29:01 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.17291.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


------ =_NextPart_000_01BC0985.40438B40
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,
I'm new to this group, and may not catch the point. But are you people =
intentionally doing this unbelievable copying of previous messages to =
spite some current member of the group or is there some other reason I'm =
missing?
Thanks,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From:	Phil Taylor [SMTP:chip3@montana.com]
Sent:	Monday, January 13, 1997 10:43 PM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Re: news stuff on page

M. Savad wrote:
* Linda Campbell wrote:

Snipped approx 200 lines....

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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 21:44:14 1997
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X-Path: webtv.net!rickbruser
From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:43:44 -0800
Message-ID: <199701240543.VAA00548@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Lee, about Gilding glass... First of all, I am a  novice to the Web,
so please forgive my ignorance . But I do know a little bit about Gold,
and the various aspects of Gilding.  From what you have told me, you are
going to Gild the glass and the solder.  Glass Gildng and surface
Gilding requires the use of different sizes. Typically with glass, it`s
2 00 Gelatin capsules in a pint of distilled water, warmed but  not
boiled until the gellatin has dissolved.  Surface   Gilding can include
anything from varnish, long  oil, to Rabbit skin glue, common in Russia.
I can also recommend some good books, like ......GOLD LEAF TECHNIQUES
BY  RAYMOND J LEBLANC   and                        SIGNWORK  a
craftsmans manual by              BILL STEWART.
There is also a wonderful product called ""Angel Gild"  It`s Gold in a
liquid form. It`s  ap-   plication is a somewhat esoteric one, hence the
name of the outfit that sells it. Esoteric Sign Supply. Needless to say,
theres a lot to be said!

Rick Bruser
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 23 22:40:10 1997
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X-Path: montana.com!chip3
From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:01:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan23.1617.0>
References: <<199701240047.AAA32715@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Chip3 Video
Precedence: bulk

Toby wrote:
> 
> Gary,
> What exactly IS "Liquid Plumber". Sounds interesting...
> Elisabeth 'n Toby Hi Elisabeth -- You just pour it down the loo and all the sludge that's 
stuck goes wh o o o o sh.   Of course, out here in Montana, we just dig 
another hole and move the outhouse.   T. in Montana
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 02:59:29 1997
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	id m0vnjKc-00015ma; Fri, 24 Jan 97 02:58 PST
X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: news stuff on page
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:04:04 +0000
Message-ID: <199701241057.FAA16348@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


> I'm new to this group, and may not catch the point. But are you people =
> intentionally doing this unbelievable copying of previous messages to =
> spite some current member of the group or is there some other reason I'm =
> missing?

Mike,

It's not spite; it's laziness.  And it's been discussed, but there 
are a few people who just stick out their chins and stubbornly refuse 
to be thoughtful enough to edit their responses. 

I speak to my 14-year-old boy on questions of etiquette in the hope 
of shaping him into a fully formed human being in a few years. 
Unfortunately, there are a few "adults" who don't realize that 
etiquette extends to Netiquette and they get very defensive and quite 
"sharp" in their responses when it's pointed out that they're being 
as rude as a 10-year-old. Personally, I've given up on them.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 02:59:31 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Welp
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:04:04 +0000
Message-ID: <199701241058.FAA16363@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> It's only through the "diversions" that we have got to know each 
> other as people and as human beings.
> THAT is important too.


Absolutely on the mark. <s>

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 02:59:31 1997
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	id m0vnjKj-0000fWa; Fri, 24 Jan 97 02:58 PST
X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:04:04 +0000
Message-ID: <199701241058.FAA16366@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


> Don't suppose you could make a little detour to UK...? Would have  4 
> groups of 30 people each absolutely hanging on your every word... (As 
> would I...)

Elisabeth, ou might be interested to know that Julie Sloan's planning a guided 
tour of English stained glass sites. Next year, I think.

Albert

 
Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 04:37:17 1997
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	id m0vnkrU-0000Wna; Fri, 24 Jan 97 04:36 PST
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Welp
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:38:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan24.2387.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Here, here, Elizabeth!!!!! Always enjoy your posts.

Linda

There is always the delete button.... (Even I have found that one!)
So you chose to read it and grin - or you delete it. What the hell...
As they say, .. it all adds to the rich quilt pattern of life....

Elisabeth 'n Toby

Albert wrote:
Thread drift occurs when *people get involved. Take the people out of 
the equation and replace them with computers ... voila! no deviation 
from path! <g>

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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7`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````NDT`
`
end

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 05:34:40 1997
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X-Path: UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU!HCLADM02
From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Catalogs (fwd)
Date:         Fri, 24 Jan 97 08:19:59 EST
Message-ID:   <970124.083205.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

And here I thought this was going to be a Super Bowl message.
By the way, pre-Super Bowl game - make up new lyrics to "The Battle
of New Orleans" and if you don't know what I'm talking about, you're
too young.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
From: Jim Jablonski <jimjab@sprintmail.com>

By the way,  Mike Savad said " you can tune a guitar, but you can't
tuna fish."
Did you know the way to tuna fish is to play up 'n down it's scales? :)

Thx in advance for your future resonses.
----
I am in the fortunate position of being surrounded by glass stores.
In fact, I can drive to Wittemore-Durgin (I do this once a year, it does take
2 1/2 hours) and buy my basic glass in half sheets at great prices.
You know, like glue chip, some green, some blue...  also, within 30 miles,
I know of, and have patronized, 4 different stores (in the past 3 years,
there have also been 2 stores that have gone out of business.  One of those
was two miles from me, but rather pricey.)  So I have NEVER bought glass
from a catalog.  I imagine, if you want Spectrum, looking at the Spectrum
page could be helpful since you could get an idea of the colors and their
numbers.  You could then relate that to the catalog you have in hand.

Not much help, am I?  Just arousing envy, aren't I?  It's just that
the word "tuna" presently sets off everyone in New England.
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 06:39:40 1997
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X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca
From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:33:53 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan24.43353.0>
References: <<1997Jan23.1617.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Phil Taylor wrote:

> Toby wrote:
> > 
> > Gary,
> > What exactly IS "Liquid Plumber". Sounds interesting...
> > Elisabeth 'n Toby


> Hi Elisabeth -- You just pour it down the loo and all the sludge that's 
> stuck goes wh o o o o sh.   Of course, out here in Montana, we just dig 
> another hole and move the outhouse.   T. in Montana

You pour yours in the toilet??? hmmmm. I usually find it best for
dissolving soap and hair clogs in the bath line... and Elisabeth, if
you haven't already heard, LP is like high test bleach.

m


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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 07:06:24 1997
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	id m0vnnCY-0000qva; Fri, 24 Jan 97 07:05 PST
X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:05:53 PST
Message-ID: <m0vnnCU-0000EUC@daver.bungi.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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[In the message entitled "Cuttin glass" on Jan 24,  2:13, Elsie Turqman writes:]

> Do you draw the cutter toward you or push it away from you when you are
> cutting  out a pattern.  I have been working on and off with stained glass
> Is there a correct method or is it whatever floats you boat.

I believe pushing it away from you is the correct way.



-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 07:24:21 1997
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X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen
From: David Cogen <cogen@ll.mit.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 09:08:22 -0500
Message-ID: <9701240908.AA06364@LL.MIT.EDU>
References: <<1997Jan23.163533.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


> the correst way is what ever way works for you. i push the cutter when
> doing curves, it allows me to see the line as i cut. i used to pull. i
> pull the cutter when going against a straight edge, for more control.

I use the "Ultimate Glass Cutter", which, I was told, is designed to be pushed,
not pulled. I agree that pulling this cutter would be difficult; I wouldn't be
able to see the line well. It's the only glass cutter I have ever used, so I
can't comment on whether pushing is easier than pulling in general. I was also
told that this is the only cutter that can be used sitting, not standing. I am
perhaps a little skeptical that it is the *only* one.

-- David
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 08:06:36 1997
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	id m0vno8s-0000nLa; Fri, 24 Jan 97 08:06 PST
X-Path: uninet.net!mcastle
From: mcastle@uninet.net (Martin Castle)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Pulling or Pushing
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:07:45 -0500
Message-ID: <v01540b00af0e8e7b856c@[206.137.208.17]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have found that I pull the glass cutter where my teenage son who is left
handed pushs it. I think it is whatever works best for you and gets the
results that you are looking for. Martin

Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941

207 382 6207                  207 382 6207

Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
Islesboro Central School      Unity College
PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
Islesboro Maine 04848

207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220

207 734 8159 Fax

email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net

You can't be lost if you don't care where you are.








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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 08:24:15 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vnoPt-0000pta; Fri, 24 Jan 97 08:23 PST
X-Path: bridge.net!athena
From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: welp and other non-glass related subjects ...
Summary: Authenticated sender is <athena@pop.bridge.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:29:57 +0000
Message-ID: <199701241623.LAA22869@brickell.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear List,

I, for one, would like to cast my vote in favor of sticking to the 
subject of glass. It takes me valuable time to read through messages.

Just one opinion on "netiquette".

M.-J. Taylor


> 
> Hi Linda,
> Did you count on getting the "linguist" Elisabeth up and going
> again....?? Well you did.! Your husband's usage of "yet" is curious
> and is one I haven't come across before....
<snip>
> Elisabeth 'n Toby

> Linda wrote:
> At the risk of rialing every one up, I think the differences in the
> way we speak is interesting. My husband is from the mid-west and he
> has an unusual use of the word "yet"....
<snip>


 
M.-J. Taylor 
<athena@bridge.net> 

Although we cannot change the direction of the wind,
              we can adjust our sails.

 
                                              |\                ( )
 _____________________________________________|_\_____________________
                                              -----             -_-_
                                                               -- - -
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 08:34:59 1997
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	id m0vnoaM-0000tLa; Fri, 24 Jan 97 08:34 PST
X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Pulling or Pushing
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:36:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan24.63637.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I have a strip cutter. Pulling definately works better on this than 
pushing. But, I push with my Fletcher pistol when I am cutting around a 
pattern or following lines, because I can see where I'm going. But when I 
am scoring using a ruler as a guide with the Fletcher I pull. My preference 
would be to pull all the time because I have less of a tendency to "dig" 
into the glass by pulling. So when I am following a pattern I have to be 
very careful that I am not pushing too hard.

Linda


I have found that I pull the glass cutter where my teenage son who is left
handed pushs it. I think it is whatever works best for you and gets the
results that you are looking for. Martin

Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D

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M``!33510`````!X`'PP!````$@```&QC8F5L;$!M96UA8V@N8V]M`````P`&
M$)5R6B$#``<0, (``!X`"! !````90```$E(059%05-44DE00U545$524%5,
M3$E.1T1%1DE.051%3%E73U)+4T)%5%1%4D].5$A)4U1(04Y055-(24Y'0E54
M+$E055-(5TE42$U91DQ%5$-(15)025-43TQ72$5.24%-0U4``````@$)$ $`
M``#%`@``P0(``' $``!,6D9U::M2S_\`"@$/`A4"J 7K`H,`4 +R"0(`8V@*
MP'-E=#(W!@`&PP*#,@/%`@!P<D)Q$>)S=&5M`H,SMP+D!Q,"@S0#QA3(-1+,
M713%?0J ",\)V3L8SS(\-34"@ J!#;$+8&YG>#$P,Q10"PH6D@P!8Q$`0"!)
M(!& =F4@C&$@$\ %$2!C=0) @020+B!0=6QL"X L9R -L0N 81/0;'G4('<%
ML&L$(&(1P![1XB "("!T: 0`(4$#D;AP=7,A8!O0'P!"'K N+!VA(?(@0&DA
M4"!MN2 P1FP1P!%P(/%P! `^= ;P($ D$ .@';!A;<\>DQ]B"L (8&YD'A$*
ML-\>P@.@!;$"$!] ;P/P'W'/'U$'D"*P(+!C82(`'@#_'; H4 .@$; >`"3!
M&- =H/(G)4!G;R(V)+D$\ 6P9Q]B(@`EHR!R'S @\6'C!" >(&=U:0VP(S0A
M4-\>`"/'(M(?0!\`32 P$U"S#< I<6YC*3$(8&PF,/L@L"% ;RZ#'A PL2VB
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M!!%B+P$?-!\`4S!P),B_)R@F6!VU,&$P,1WP<B P/RA0+S$?,"&2!4 E$VYO
MGP5 (?4P43!P$8%D+@J%Y0J%3 N 9&$[O J'"V3_%%$+\A-0.G %D#GR'=,"
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/``4```!213H@`````%\L
`
end

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 10:29:30 1997
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From: "Robert E. Jones" <rejones@CapAccess.org>
To: "Michael J. Baker" <mikebakr@skypoint.com>
Subject: RE: news stuff on page
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:32:32 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan24.83232.0>
References: <<1997Jan23.17291.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Michael J. Baker wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm new to this group, and may not catch the point. But are you people =
> intentionally doing this unbelievable copying of previous messages to =
> spite some current member of the group or is there some other reason I'm =
> missing?
> Thanks,
> Mike

I recently suggested that the people on this group carefully edit their 
quoting and was promptly beaten down as an "alpha geek" and heretic.    
If you look at some messages , they include quotes and requotes of the 
bungi footer, as well as the current message's footer put on by bungi.

Oh well, I guess we just keep wading through all the junk in hopes of the 
rare gems.

Bob

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 12:33:13 1997
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:37:39 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530500af0e77f89650@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Looking for Liquid Plumber?  If you go to your local grocery story,
generally to the section where they sell cleansers and the like. Look for
the bottles of stuff guaranteed to unstop you drains. That's where you will
find Liquid Plumber.

To be honest with you, I discovered this accidentally. I had a coffee cup I
really like but could never get the stains out. I was fighting a drain
problem in my sink late one night and for reasons known only to God had a
50-50 mix of water and Liquid Plumber in the cup. I left it on the sink
over night. The next morning, the cup was as clean as it was the day I
bought it.

Since then, I have used it to "soak" stains out of other cups, glasses,
pots and pans when nothing else would work. And it seems to work quite well
-- at least nothing has disintegrated or fallen apart yet.

As always, read the warning label.

=Gary



>Gary,
>What exactly IS "Liquid Plumber". Sounds interesting...
>Elisabeth 'n Toby
>
>Gary wrote:
>I hesitate to suggest this, but here goes: I have used Liquid Plumber to
>clean tough stains on various metal and glass objects,
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>----
>----
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      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 13:07:41 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:26:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199701242106.VAA03187@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Elsie ( & other Newbies)
Glaziers - for some reason prefer to cut towards their bodies.  You 
will even find instructions to this effect on the  bubble-wrap 
packing of glass cutters.
As a novice stained glass Artisan, I was taught by a very old, 
traditional, well-established and internationally famous glass studio 
in London  that for stained glass you cut AWAY from your body.
1) You can see better what you do
2) Health & Safety reasons (though this has still eluded me)
3) It's easier to maintain the required constant pressure
4) You are less likely to slip
5)It's easier to move WITH your hand as it goes forward, than it is 
 when you move backwards,  towards your own body which then is a heavy physical 
obstacle limiting the  movements of your hand and elbow.
6) It's easier to move forwards rather than moving backwards  
(Remember when you took your driving test?!)
7) When you are doing curves you have a far better control of the 
accuracy of the cut if you move forward and follow through with your 
body movements that way.
That is what I was taught, that is what I do and that is also how I 
teach.
Elisabeth 'n Toby
Elsie Turqman wrote:
> 
> A question on cutting technique from a semi-lurker who enjoys the byplay as
> well as the info on glass.
> 
> Do you draw the cutter toward you or push it away from you when you are
> cutting  out a pattern.  I have been working on and off with stained glass
> since the late 1970's and never thought about my style of cutting, but a
> friend asked me today if there was a correct method of drawing the cutter
> across the glass.  I push it away but he was taught to draw it towards himself.
> 
> Is there a correct method or is it whatever floats you boat.
> 
> Elsie
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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the correst way is what ever way works for you. i push the cutter when
doing curves, it allows me to see the line as i cut. i used to pull. i
pull the cutter when going against a straight edge, for more control.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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----
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 13:07:46 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:26:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199701242106.VAA03181@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Precedence: bulk


Dear Albert & Other European "Lurkers",

YES!!!!!! Tell me / us more! How do I go about getting "included in"???
Obviously, if I am tentatively planning a trip to USA in 1998, I need 
to plan around this too.
Very much interested!
What about other "folks" from USA (or Canada, Australia and...and...)??
 Especially people who would have 
LIKED to join us on the trip to Chartres, but can't. Would this be 
another opportunity? Will be happy to help, roll sleeves up, 
accommodate, feed etc.
Do tell me/us more....
Elisabeth 'n Toby


 make a little detour to UK...? 

Elisabeth, ou might be interested to know that Julie Sloan's planning a guided 
tour of English stained glass sites. Next year, I think.

Albert

 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 13:07:48 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:26:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199701242106.VAA03190@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jim,
Over the last year or so, there has been quite a lively discussion 
about the "pros & cons" of various mail catalogue suppliers in the 
USA ( an issue of even greater importance to us folks in Europe, 
where supplies really ARE limited and very expensive..)

You could start off by trying Stephanie at Delphi stained glass Her 
"outfit" has repeatedly got good reports and recommendations in this 
Group.. I must point out that Delphi (from what I understand) is  a 
working stained glass studio, with  a proper retail side that you can 
go and visit and discuss in person; look at things, pick them up and 
ask questions and so on. The Mail Order Business has grown out of 
sheer physical and geographical demand. Yet they appear to be 
immensely sympathetical to what you - the Customer - perceive, need 
and want. Their mail order trading policies therefore, appear to be 
geared towards pleasing YOU, rather than their accountant...... 
(though if Delphi can maintain their policy long-term, their 
Accountant should end up with a grin on his face also..!)
Her catalogue is quite "mouth-watering" and I am in dialogue with her 
for the purpose of trying to work out something  for her supplying me 
with things I cannot get in UK (which is quite a lot!!). She has 
acquired the reputation of being able to walk "that ONE extra mile" 
for service. You can contact her at direct e-mail: delphigl@vixa.voyager.net
To have a look at Delphi WWW-Page, try 
http://www.voyager.net/delphiglass
Delphi Stained Glass are based in Michigan and Ohio. 

I note with interest that Stephanie has remained modestly silent through 
this exchange...... She is an active member of our Group....

.... yea, I would "kill" for the ability to come out with  the tuna 
quotes....... Loved them!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby

<I am new to this group and have fun reading your comments.
I started Stained Glass a year ago, and after 4 months the local glass
store went out of buisness.
So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
at price, selection and quality?

By the way,  Mike Savad said " you can tune a guitar, but you can't
tuna fish."
Did you know the way to tuna fish is to play up 'n down it's scales? :)

Thx in advance for your future resonses.
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 13:08:02 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:26:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199701242107.VAA03203@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

 Hi "T", Mary & Phil,
AHA!! I see!
Right OK; so I fill the loo up with LP, carefully position the glass 
to be cleaned in the solution.
Then, if I'm caught short in the night, go out in the garden, dig a 
hole.. etc... and then move my shed in position over the hole. (What 
about the foundations? Move them too?)
But at least my glass will be clean and shining in the morning.....   
:-)         (I wonder what the neighbours would say...)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

> > What exactly IS "Liquid Plumber". Sounds interesting...

> Hi Elisabeth -- You just pour it down the loo and all the sludge that's 
> stuck goes wh o o o o sh.   Of course, out here in Montana, we just dig 
> another hole and move the outhouse.   T. in Montana

You pour yours in the toilet??? hmmmm. I usually find it best for
dissolving soap and hair clogs in the bath line... and Elisabeth, if
you haven't already heard, LP is like high test bleach.

m
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 13:08:19 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:26:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199701242106.VAA03195@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

YES Len!!!,
You spoke a very true word. I have been chewing it over for DAYS!
It's all very well trying to be "clever". You produce a piece of 
stained glass and a week, month or year after it has left your hands 
it disintegrates from various "design faults" and weaknesses that you 
 - the Maker -  didn't consider or think about when you created it.
Stained Glass, historically - is a tradition that the Creator (i.e. 
you and I)  makes to last for 2-3  centuries or more, that occasionally will 
need "service" and rennovation, but intrinsically it is something that should still 
last and carry "my" name in the 24th or 25th Century (JEEEZZ! THAT  
I S  a thought!!!! I might crawl about in embarrasement in my 
grave...) Maybe my Swedish sense of history, quality and 
durability makes me a very irritating "puritan". (For instance, my 
old Volvo Estate is 13 years old and about to start the clock the 
THIRD time around. It just goes, goes and goes - but that is what it 
was built for....). I would like to consider my stained glass in a 
similar kind of way - that it WILL last. Innovative, new, refreshing, 
rejuvinating - all of that. But just NOTHING to compromise passing 
down a historical heritage... (.. and earning a meagre crust in the 
process...)
So I do admit getting sensitive and "ratty" about the idea that 
stained glass can be made in seconds with all sorts of gadgets and 
"quick-fix" ideas that do not stand the Test of Time.
Your in-put, Len, was very valuable in highlighting this concept.
But then I do value your inputs; very sane, down to earth and 
whatever else. (Don't get too big-headed..!)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Hi Folks,

Please excuse the following purist rant but......I think Mike S has
described a curse of technology as applied to S.G. The cuts that you can
make with a ring or band saw are not necessarily going to stand the test of
time( example...the inside 90) as well the the rest of a carefully
constructed piece. The old masters were more then capable of these exotic
cuts with just a pair of pliers I know, I've seen them during restorations,
but most of them crack and they were used infrequently. So what does that
all mean? I think it suggests that S.G. has certain physical limitations and
pieces should be designed accordingly. In my humble opinion its these
limitations and working within them that give stained glass designs their
uniqueness of line and form, otherwise it's just a drawing made into a
panel. On the other hand if I see one more lead line coming out of the end
of a birds beak I'm gonna scream!  ;-)

Len 

 



----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 13:10:47 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: news stuff on page
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:26:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199701242106.VAA03184@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Ahem Michael....,
It's a sore issue and has been "regurgitated" many times. A 
compromise - of sorts - has sort of been agreed. The problem is that 
the "offenders" are occasionally the ones who provides "real meat" 
into the Group and do it  incredibly  well & quickly. (I myself was  gently 
"hauled over the coals" for not providing ENOUGH quotes as reminders 
to  what postings I was replying ). Nobody is trying to "get up 
anybody's nose"; it's a little bit of give and take.
Look at it this way, little gentle rain-drops will eventually make an 
indentation without having to apply brute force....
Patience is also another form of etiquette.
(By the way Michael, I had a page and a half of total "garbage" 
tagged on to the end of  YOUR message..... ?? Was it something I 
said?)
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Hi,
I'm new to this group, and may not catch the point. But are you people =
intentionally doing this unbelievable copying of previous messages to =
spite some current member of the group or is there some other reason I'm =
missing?
Thanks,
Mike

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 13:35:51 1997
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From: StndGlass1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:35:03 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan24.11353.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

<<Glaziers - for some reason prefer to cut towards their bodies.  You 
will even find instructions to this effect on the  bubble-wrap 
packing of glass cutters.
As a novice stained glass Artisan, I was taught by a very old, 
traditional, well-established and internationally famous glass studio 
in London  that for stained glass you cut AWAY from your body>>

Interesting... our studio has always both practiced and taught to score away
from you for exactly the reasons you mentioned.  I can't imagine pattern
cutting towards my body.

Straight line cutting is a different story.  When cutting down large sheets,
I always cut towards my body.

Jenna
Meredith Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 13:44:49 1997
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From: Martin Streng <mstreng@ibm.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:36:31 +0100
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970124213631.006940bc@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Are there catalog-suppliers that sell in Europe too? Any experiences?



At 21:26 24-01-97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Jim,
>Over the last year or so, there has been quite a lively discussion 
>about the "pros & cons" of various mail catalogue suppliers in the 
>USA ( an issue of even greater importance to us folks in Europe, 
>where supplies really ARE limited and very expensive..)
>
Martin Streng

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 14:35:01 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:40:24 +0000
Message-ID: <199701242234.RAA28140@ns.computer.net>
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Precedence: bulk


> 50-50 mix of water and Liquid Plumber in the cup. I left it on the sink
> As always, read the warning label.

 Not to mention, "rinse thoroughly"! <s>

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 14:35:32 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:40:24 +0000
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> YES!!!!!! Tell me / us more! How do I go about getting "included in"???
> Obviously, if I am tentatively planning a trip to USA in 1998, I need 
> to plan around this too.
> Very much interested!

It's all being sketched out at this point; nothing firmed up. But as 
soon as anything's known, I'll post it here, natch.

> What about other "folks" from USA (or Canada, Australia and...and...)??

Oh, I'm sure everyone's welcome.  And thanks for the offer of bread 
'n' board, not that I expected anything else from someone as warm and 
generous as you obviously are. <g>

Albert


Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 14:38:12 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: UK "Links" / Future Projects
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:57:11 +0000
Message-ID: <199701242237.WAA20569@linux.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi Tomasz,
 I do not know how  long you have been "lurking". Did I say welcome 
aboard....?
I would so much wish to develop this idea and concept. I think I/we 
could. We need to talk and develop. Will be in touch....
Elisabeth 'n Toby




<What  about Poland 
> (Greg? Are you still with us??)
Hello ,
I am not Greg, but I'm from Poland. See our Home Page (It is under 
construction now, so there are not many info there, but soon it will 
be completed). 
Your idea of visiting stained glass sites all around the world is 
great.
 So if you plan to visit Poland someday you are welcome. 
Me and our colleagues are ready to help in organizing trip around 
interesting stained glass sites in Poland.
  
==========================================
Tomasz Bielinski

       WITRAZE s.c.
STAINED & ARCHITECTURAL GLASS

e-mail:       witraze@qdnet.pl
http://www2.gol.com/users/kropka/witraze/intro-e.html

tel/fax:      48 22 150417
tel (private):48 22 6126205
=============================================
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 15:31:27 1997
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From: Mark Wallace <erainbow2@pipeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:30:52 -0500
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970124012849.34770c52@pop.pipeline.com>
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I've been very interested in reading the comments from everyone on whether
or not one should push or pull a glass cutter.  I guess I'll throw in my two
cents worth too.

In our studio and in our workshops, we teach people to do it both ways. When
you're cutting a piece out and trying to follow a pattern line (or better
yet the edge of a pattern line) it is much easier to push because you can
see the line in front of the cutter.  If you pull in this case, your hand
obscures the line.  When cutting straight lines using a straight-edge or a
tool like our Scoreboard or ScoreStik, we always teach the students to pull
the cutter toward them.

The reasoning is as follows.  When you use a glass cutter, especially the
more popular pistol grip cutters, the head of the cutter is typically tilted
back toward your body.  If you run into a fault in the glass (akin to a
pothole in the road) when you're pushing the cutter, the forces you're
putting on the cutter tend to push the wheel deeper into the hole.  Often
this can stop your score dead in its track.  On the other hand, when you
pull the cutter, the forces you're putting on the cutter tend to pull the
cutter out of the same hole and your score continues uninterrupted.  A good
analogy would be walking down a road with a stick in your hand and trying to
keep one end of the stick in contact with the road at all times.  If you
keep the stick in front of you, it will always be catching on something and
jabbing you in the hand.  If you pull it, you can walk along briskly without
a concern about getting jabbed.

Pushing the cutter when you're cutting a pattern line is a trade off.  You
trade much better vision for the risk of sticking your cutter.  When you're
following a straight-edge, you don't have to see.  You just need to keep the
cutter in contact with the straight edge.  My wife Pamela and I have
answered this question the same way in many workshops we have done and the
typical response we get is, "Oh yeah! Makes sense."  Then they try it and
find it much easier to cut straight lines. 

My apologies for the long message.  I guess the engineer in me needed to vent.

Mark
 
 
 

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 15:47:45 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:46:37 -0600 (CST)
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At 09:43 PM 1/23/97 -0800, Rick Bruser wrote:
  But I do know a little bit about Gold,
>and the various aspects of Gilding. 

Hi Rick, 

Too bad you didn't show up a while ago, we had quite the little thing going
about gold leafing glass.You might want to check out the archives. Welcome
to bungi.


Len

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 16:49:48 1997
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From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:49:12 -0800
Message-ID: <199701250049.QAA24812@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
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Thanks Len, I`ll take your advice. I`m going into  the archives.Gilding
glass is a lot of fun when it comes out right, especially gilded glue
chipped   glass. I am a novice on the Web, but I`m willing  to learn.
This is the first group that I found, thanks to Albert Lewis. Are there
any other Glue Chippers out there? My search attempts come up empty.
Perhaps too esoteric.

Rick Bruser
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 17:14:41 1997
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From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:07:18 -0800
Message-ID: <199701250107.RAA25858@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
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Len, I just went to the archives, and I was wondering if you remember
which month and year this Gilding Glass discussion took place.
Thanks.

Rick Bruser
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 18:45:45 1997
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From: shyguy <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs (fwd)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:34:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan24.163412.0>
References: <<970124.083205.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>>
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<snip here>
m> Not much help, am I?  Just arousing envy, aren't I?  It's just that
> the word "tuna" presently sets off everyone in New England.

 That line abiut the guitar and tuna was actually mine, but whatever,
but what's the flack about tuna? - is there now a 'mad fish' disease,
ala old England and cows??
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 18:49:35 1997
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From: "Mary Ann Dulemba" <madglass@usaor.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:41:09 -0500
Message-ID: <199701250255.VAA29960@gate.usaor.net>
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There are a few of us in Pittsburgh also interested!

----------
> From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Seminar
> Date: Tuesday, January 21, 1997 6:11 PM
> 
> To the 'Bungie Group';
> 
> American Bevel, Inc. is planning to hold seminars to teach how to use
> our "Designer" software program. 
> 
> We are planning to tour all of our distributors and teach a class of
> twenty-five people at each stop.
> 
> The seminar is a hands on class. Everyone will have the use of their own

> pentium computer. We will teach all aspects of the software program.
> This will be a two day seminar. 
> 
> We do not know if we can publish a price here, so we won't until we hear
> back from someone.
> 
> What we would like to know is if anyone is interested.
> 
> B. Rgds,
> 
> Richard Ashoff
> American Bevel, Inc.
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 19:37:45 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:31:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan24.173112.0>
References: <<1997Jan24.11353.0>>
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On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 StndGlass1@aol.com wrote:

> <<Glaziers - for some reason prefer to cut towards their bodies.  You 
> will even find instructions to this effect on the  bubble-wrap 
> packing of glass cutters.
> As a novice stained glass Artisan, I was taught by a very old, 
> traditional, well-established and internationally famous glass studio 
> in London  that for stained glass you cut AWAY from your body>>
> 
> Interesting... our studio has always both practiced and taught to score away
> from you for exactly the reasons you mentioned.  I can't imagine pattern
> cutting towards my body.

FWIW: I can't imagine pattern cutting away from me! I was taught by
someone who learned to cut away from the body and hated it, so she
switched. That fella from Maine may be onto something when he mentions
lefthandedness... my teacher is also a leftie.

Mary


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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 20:10:38 1997
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From: "Hilary A. Bobker" <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:33:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1997Jan24.183310.0>
References: <<1997Jan21.71145.0>>
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Organization: HABit Fashion Services
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...American Bevel, Inc. is planning to hold seminars to teach how to 
use our "Designer" software program...

I would be very interested in the seminar. I am in the Philadelphia 
area.

Thanks.
Hilary
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 21:26:35 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:26:00 -0800
Message-ID: <199701250524.VAA15708@aphex.direct.ca>
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>If your a glazier, time is money & scoring in a straight line toward the
body gets the job done quicker, but it would be more difficult to do this
with intricate patterns. Besides the hand obstructs your vision of the
cutting line. But hey, what works for some may not works for others.

Karin
Hi Elsie ( & other Newbies)
>Glaziers - for some reason prefer to cut towards their bodies.  You 
>will even find instructions to this effect on the  bubble-wrap 
>packing of glass cutters.
>As a novice stained glass Artisan, I was taught by a very old, 
>traditional, well-established and internationally famous glass studio 
>in London  that for stained glass you cut AWAY from your body.
>1) You can see better what you do
>2) Health & Safety reasons (though this has still eluded me)
>3) It's easier to maintain the required constant pressure
>4) You are less likely to slip
>5)It's easier to move WITH your hand as it goes forward, than it is 
> when you move backwards,  towards your own body which then is a heavy
physical 
>obstacle limiting the  movements of your hand and elbow.
>6) It's easier to move forwards rather than moving backwards  
>(Remember when you took your driving test?!)
>7) When you are doing curves you have a far better control of the 
>accuracy of the cut if you move forward and follow through with your 
>body movements that way.
>That is what I was taught, that is what I do and that is also how I 
>teach.
>Elisabeth 'n Toby
>Elsie Turqman wrote:
>> 
>> A question on cutting technique from a semi-lurker who enjoys the byplay as
>> well as the info on glass.
>> 
>> Do you draw the cutter toward you or push it away from you when you are
>> cutting  out a pattern.  I have been working on and off with stained glass
>> since the late 1970's and never thought about my style of cutting, but a
>> friend asked me today if there was a correct method of drawing the cutter
>> across the glass.  I push it away but he was taught to draw it towards
himself.
>> 
>> Is there a correct method or is it whatever floats you boat.
>> 
>> Elsie
>> 
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>the correst way is what ever way works for you. i push the cutter when
>doing curves, it allows me to see the line as i cut. i used to pull. i
>pull the cutter when going against a straight edge, for more control.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>-- 
>Mike's Stained Glass
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>
>New Pages Added:
>
> - More Tips and Techniques
> - How to Fix Mistakes
> - The History of My Shop
> - My Adventures of Mold Making
>----
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>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 21:55:57 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:57:07 -0800
Message-ID: <199701250555.VAA28529@aphex.direct.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elisabeth: Your a riot! I almost sprayed coffee all over my monitor I was
laughing so hard visualizing your response. 
Plumbers love it when we use all the wonderful cleaning products as they
corroide or eat away the lead in our plumbing & galvanized pipes. I
certainly would notuse this if you have a septic tank, this stuff could stop
the normal course in the tank. But if you used it at lease your glass would
be clean. 
PS. If you plan on doing this tonight, please don't get caught short, we
already have a full moon out tonight already.
 

> Hi "T", Mary & Phil,
>AHA!! I see!
>Right OK; so I fill the loo up with LP, carefully position the glass 
>to be cleaned in the solution.
>Then, if I'm caught short in the night, go out in the garden, dig a 
>hole.. etc... and then move my shed in position over the hole. (What 
>about the foundations? Move them too?)
>But at least my glass will be clean and shining in the morning.....   
>:-)         (I wonder what the neighbours would say...)
>Elisabeth 'n Toby
>
>> > What exactly IS "Liquid Plumber". Sounds interesting...
>
>> Hi Elisabeth -- You just pour it down the loo and all the sludge that's 
>> stuck goes wh o o o o sh.   Of course, out here in Montana, we just dig 
>> another hole and move the outhouse.   T. in Montana
>
>You pour yours in the toilet??? hmmmm. I usually find it best for
>dissolving soap and hair clogs in the bath line... and Elisabeth, if
>you haven't already heard, LP is like high test bleach.
>
>m
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 22:19:52 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: news stuff on page
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:21:12 -0800
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To Bob & Michael 
Bob, please don't put words in other peoples responses, I really don't think
anyone beat you down as an"alpha geek". But if the shoe fits. I think it's
like jumping into a conversation when you don't know what the topic is, and
we all know what happens then.Therefore, it's always kinda nice to know the
subject of discussion, like this one. 
Karin 
By the way, your both kinda cute dispite the awful labels.
>On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Michael J. Baker wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I'm new to this group, and may not catch the point. But are you people =
>> intentionally doing this unbelievable copying of previous messages to =
>> spite some current member of the group or is there some other reason I'm =
>> missing?
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>
>I recently suggested that the people on this group carefully edit their 
>quoting and was promptly beaten down as an "alpha geek" and heretic.    
>If you look at some messages , they include quotes and requotes of the 
>bungi footer, as well as the current message's footer put on by bungi.
>
>Oh well, I guess we just keep wading through all the junk in hopes of the 
>rare gems.
>
>Bob
>
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 24 22:24:30 1997
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From: rockingbird@juno.com (Terry L Biegler)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: welp and other things
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:22:21 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan25.62221.0>
References: <<199701240046.AAA32703@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
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On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:06:58 +0000 "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
writes:
>only now in my communications with you in Glass@Bungi do the various 
>English language differences really hit home. This occasionally leads 
>to misunderstandings, misconceptions and confusion.
>Luckily, there is an awful lot of good-will and effort to help each 
>other understand  one another. Your input highlights this.
I work at a college in Dallas, TX where we have been having cultural
awareness activities for about the last three years. We will have our
third "Festival of Cultures Week" next week, where we have speakers and
entertainers and food from many different cultures. It's a lot of fun and
we all learn something. That is why I was surprised to see posted on a
bulletin board by the elevator that someone would be conducting "accent
reduction classes". That cracked me up! They emphasize the wonderfulness
of diversity of cultures, then they want us all to sound the same. I
personally love to hear people who speak with an accent of any kind. It
makes English sound so much more interesting. I asked my co-workers if
they had seen the flyer. Then I asked them "D'Yall thank I outa take them
classes?"!

And I knew what welp meant. ;-)

Terry

                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       ~                   ~         Jim & Terry Biegler         ~       
             ~
   ~       ~        ~          ~    Rockingbird Studio    ~        ~     
    ~          ~
                 ~                           Ft. Worth, TX               
          ~
                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 05:51:37 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: I gotta know!!!
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:50:38 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan25.35038.0>
References: <<199701250619.WAA25785@orb.direct.ca>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


What's an alpha geek?

M


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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 07:12:34 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: I gotta know!!!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:17:50 +0000
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> What's an alpha geek?

Actually, there's only one these days: Bill Gates.

In animal relationships, the alpha male is the one who gets to breed, 
so it follows that in computerese a "geek," otherwise the homliest, 
smartest, most out-there male, the one who's allowed to do anything 
he wants to do, would be the alpha geek. Logically, then, it would 
follows that there's only one and the choices would rapidly narrow to 
Gates. <g> In order to keep this from being a non-glass comment, I'll 
note that I haven't heard that's there's any stained glass in his 
4,000,000,000,000,000,000-square-foot house, although I have heard 
that he collects glass by Northwest glass object makers. I guess he 
can put them on top of all the computer monitors in strewn around the 
1,000,000,000 rooms he inhabits. Am I jealous? Nah.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 08:14:27 1997
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From: "Julie L. Sloan" <jsloan@mail.computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Summary: Authenticated sender is <jsloan@mail.computer.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:09:26 +0000
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Dear all,

Since Albert opened the subject, I'll clarify it, even though it's 
WAY too early: 

I'm working on putting together a tour of Arts & Crafts stained glass 
in England, to happen sometime in the summer of 1998. At the moment,  
I'm hoping for early summer, May-June. It will go 
from Birmingham to Oxford, to Cambridge, to London.  Registration 
will be EXTREMELY limited -- max. 10 people, I think.  We don't have 
a cost yet, either, but present plans are for it not to include 
airfare, so local glass people could join, I think.  The organizer is 
Arts & Crafts Tours, in New York.  If there is great demand, I 
suppose they wouldn't be averse to doing it more than once.  If 
anyone's interested, you can email me your mailing address and I'll 
be sure you get info when it's available.  My email is 
jsloan@usmail.net.

In addition, I'm also thinking that I'd like to spend more time in 
the UK doing research.  I'm definitely interested in lining up 
lectures, consultations, etc., to help pay the way. If anyone knows 
of a house to rent or borrow, I'd be interested.  I'd like to spend 
time in Glasgow and in the Newcastle area, as well as the Midlands.
My strength, in case anyone doesn't know, is 19th century stained 
glass, not medieval (I wouldn't presume to lecture to the British 
about medieval stained glass!)  Ideas and input would be useful and 
appreciated.
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 10:47:51 1997
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From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, W.L.)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Patterns
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:38:27 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan25.133827.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: The Craft Nook, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

We are looking for a pattern of a Jaguar Thanks for any help. Also where
can we purchase SGN ???
Thanks Walter
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 12:21:29 1997
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From: "Tomasz Bielinski" <witraze@qdnet.pl>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject:  UK "Links" / Future Projects-Poland
Summary: Authenticated sender is <witraze@post.qdnet.pl>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:27:16 +0000
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> I would so much wish to develop this idea and concept. I think I/we 
> could. We need to talk and develop. Will be in touch....
> Elisabeth 'n Toby

Hi Elisabeth
You are welcome (as I said it earlier). 

In the meantime why not to visit our NEW homepage about 
stined glass and mosaic.

Regards
==========================================
Tomasz Bielinski <witraze@qdnet.pl>
http://www2.gol.com/users/kropka/witraze/index.html
tel/fax:      48 22 150417

SEE OUR NEW Homepage - new pictures and texts
about stained glass and mosaic. 
=============================================
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 12:54:59 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: cutting with the swivel head
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:55:23 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan25.65523.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi all!  I'm a newbie both to stained glass and the list.  I have really
enjoyed all the interplay and have learned some good stuff.  Now I have
a question.  I just got a new Fletcher pistol grip cutter.  It's great. 
But what is the purpose of the swivel setting on the head?  I've been
afraid to try it because it seems like I would have no control.  I have
enough trouble as it is.  

Thanks to all in advance.
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 13:03:35 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:22:47 +0000
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Hi Martin,
In UK about 1 or 2; but they get THEIR stuff from  suppliers and 
catalogues in USA, add their own profit margins etc.....
I might have quoted this example before; a Weller 75 W soldering iron 
costs about between 18 - 24 UK Pound Sterling. That is a reaonable 
price. One of the stained glass (and catalogue) suppliers over here charged until 
recently 56 UK Pounds Sterling. (They only dropped their price after I 
 spent almost 3 years telling them how outrageous I thought their 
price was.. and that I was warning all my students NOT to buy tools 
from them..)
I once ordered glass through Mail Order that arrived in 4-5 pieces
 (not properly packed) 
and once ordered some lead, because I literally didn't have time to 
collect it myself (100 miles) The delivery that SHOULD have been 2 
working days took over a week, the lead arrived horribly mangled 
(again not properly packed).
Catalogue suppliers elsewhere in Europe? Really don't know :-( but 
would love to find out... I would have thought that there are a small 
handful in Germany...  (Hallo Deutschland! Ist irgendjemand da?? Lass 
uns doch von euch hoeren!!).
The multitude, breadth and extent of  Stained Glass and other Craft suppliers
 and mail order suppliers in USA is for us in UK truly mind-blowing (and this is 
probably true for other Europeans too). Why this is, I don't know. 
It's almost tempting trying to entice a few good folks from "Across 
the Pond" to come and set up shop over here (Hey, Chartres Visitors! -
 might not actually allow you to go BACK!! ;-)     )
Price of glass charged over here through mail-order is probably 
fairly reasonable; it's the packing and transportation you need to 
consider carefully.
It's what they charge for hand tools and electrical tools you need to 
watch out for, because you can easily pay more than the double price. 
I have UK price lists and through our great friends in USA I now 
have several different catalogues from USA also and can accurately 
compare like with like .
If you have a credit card or a charge card (which I do not), I 
wouldn't hesitate but buy direct from USA.
Anyhow, that's my 2 cents worth...
Anyone else in Europe care to comment, please??
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Martin Streng wrote:
Are there catalog-suppliers that sell in Europe too? Any experiences?




----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 13:35:01 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re:No harm in a smile or two
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:50:33 +0000
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Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi Lavergne,
Life ain't all that easy, some times we take it too seriously. Always 
glad to spread a smile or two. But for goodness sake,  don't cover that 
monitor with too much coffee!! (Glass cleaner works better!!)
Keep lurking, keep smiling and Thanks
Take care now
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Lavergne wrote:
 I am a genuine lurker who enjoys looking in on all you folks exchanging
ideas.  Have oohed and ahhed on your web page,giggled with Elizabeth and Toby
and have learned many interesting tidbits from all on stained glass.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 13:46:40 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:45:41 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199701252145.PAA02413@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

that thread was happening around  7-4-96 to 7-8-96

Len


At 05:07 PM 1/24/97 -0800, Rick Bruser wrote:
>Len, I just went to the archives, and I was wondering if you remember
>which month and year this Gilding Glass discussion took place.



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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 14:18:30 1997
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From: mrum@idirect.com (mike & carol)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:19:57 -0500
Message-ID: <199701251719.MAA13359@relief.idirect.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> But not all old glass changes to this 
>color, and the change does not mean the glass is unstable -- only the 
>excess manganese that was used to make the glass clear was unstable, 
>and turning purple made it stable.
>
>Good luck,
>Julie Sloan

Thanks to Julie and Albert for their wonderful information on cleaning old
glass panels.
I certainly appreciate their willingness to share their information and
expertise.

Since I have recently been asked to repair, not restore, a pair of panels
from an old
Toronto, Ontario house that might be about 75-100 years old, I find their
information
both timely and kinda spooky that it pops up just when I need it!!

Both panels, sized 10x24, are leaded and very dirty.  When the present owner
found
them, you couldn't see through them even though they were in a door.  They
had been 
painted over, and were just plain filthy dirty, and now that they are just
dirty,
 they have a simplicity and purity of design and color that even in their
present sorry state make my heart sing and fingers itch to get at them.

I hope to get pictures of them up on my site in a before, during and after
version.
Thank you Albert, for Julie's address, and thank you Julie for sharing your
expertise.

Carol
*******************************************
Mike and Carol Rumak
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at:
http://web.idirect.com/~studio
*******************************************

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 14:19:05 1997
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From: mrum@idirect.com (mike & carol)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: cleaning old glass
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:19:56 -0500
Message-ID: <199701251719.MAA13355@relief.idirect.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to Julie and Albert for their wonderful information on cleaning old
glass panels.
I certainly appreciate their willingness to share their information and
expertise.

Since I have recently been asked to repair, not restore, a pair of panels
from an old
Toronto, Ontario house that might be about 75-100 years old, I find their
information
both timely and kinda spooky that it pops up just when I need it!!

Both panels, sized 10x24, are leaded and very dirty.  When the present owner
found
them, you couldn't see through them even though they were in a door.  They
had been 
painted over, and were just plain filthy dirty, and now that they are just
dirty,
 they have a simplicity and purity of design and color that even in their
present sorry state make my heart sing and fingers itch to get at them.

I hope to get pictures of them up on my site in a before, during and after
version.
Thank you Albert, for Julie's address, and thank you Julie for sharing your
expertise.

Carol
*******************************************
Mike and Carol Rumak
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

Visit Carol's stained glass gallery at:
http://web.idirect.com/~studio
*******************************************

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 14:28:24 1997
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From: eldondo1@juno.com (Don A DeVoto)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutting with the swivel head
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:26:26 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan25.222626.0>
References: <<1997Jan25.65523.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:55:23 -0700 Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
writes:
>Hi all!  I'm a newbie both to stained glass and the list.  I have 
>really
>enjoyed all the interplay and have learned some good stuff.  Now I 
>have
>a question.  I just got a new Fletcher pistol grip cutter.  It's 
>great. 
>But what is the purpose of the swivel setting on the head?  I've been
>afraid to try it because it seems like I would have no control.  I 
>have
>enough trouble as it is.  
>
>Thanks to all in advance.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
Im sure you  will receive many responses to your question but i use both
the pistol grip and the pencil grip ,in both instances i being right
handed, use the index finger on my left as a guide You can have more
control . Another thing i have seen many of my students hokld the cutter
too vertical.  As you can see the angle at the wheel cutter end is there
to show you the proper angle of attack. I too would be interested in
other answers to your question. Eldondo 1@juno.com  Good luck Don DeVoto 
           
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 14:50:19 1997
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From: Andrea King <abking@ozemailcom.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 21:03:13 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan25.13313.0>
References: <<1.5.4.32.19970124213631.006940bc@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Martin Streng wrote:
> 
> Are there catalog-suppliers that sell in Europe too? Any experiences?
> 

Martin

I am in Australia and have successfully ordered several items from Delphi 
in Michigan.  I also made Delphi my first port of call on my recent trip 
to the USA and met a number of the wonderful people who work there with 
Stephanie showing me around of course.  They have an extremely 
professional setup there and are only too happy to help.  Thanks Delphi 
for making me welcome.

Andrea

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 16:30:59 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutting with the swivel head
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:25:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan25.142527.0>
References: <<1997Jan25.65523.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Debi Overton wrote:
> 
> Hi all!  I'm a newbie both to stained glass and the list.  I have really
> enjoyed all the interplay and have learned some good stuff.  Now I have
> a question.  I just got a new Fletcher pistol grip cutter.  It's great.
> But what is the purpose of the swivel setting on the head?  I've been
> afraid to try it because it seems like I would have no control.  I have
> enough trouble as it is.
> 
> Thanks to all in advance.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


it supposed to relieve strain on your wrist. when you cut the glass you
tend to turn your wrist while cutting, but at the same time you have to
keep the cutter perpendicular to the glass. when the cutter is in the
swivel mode it allows less movement for your wrist, it stays 90 degrees
to the glass, while your arm does the rest of the work. i personally
stay with the straight function, i'm used to it.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 17:52:17 1997
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: UK "Links" / Future Projects-Poland
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 02:11:34 +0000
Message-ID: <199701260151.BAA09809@linux.nildram.co.uk>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Dear Tomasz,
The stained glass world is amazing!!
I have just spent a couple of very happy hours "surfing" through 
your home pages.
The stained glass creations of your Studio are truly magnificent and quite 
awe-inspiring. Whether or not one feels empathy with the late 20th 
Century abstract approach, the balance, harmony, the use of colour 
and painting techniques is really quite magnificent. Coming to Poland 
would now for me mean coming to learn from you. Where on earth has 
your Studio been hiding for the last 20-30 years...? For our friends 
in the US, I would strongly recommend them to visit your WEB-site. 
>From what I can see, this is 20th Century innovative European stained glass 
quality at its best and that will stand the test of time. (Of course 
- when I get to scrutinize physical details of leading and soldering 
- I might YET draw a slight "snuffle" of criticism. The best 
soldering work I have ever seen is by a Czech stained glass artist, 
who made the stained glass screens at the Czech Embassy in London. 
His soldering technique is absolutely superb and one I have never seen 
surpassed).
Your use of the English language needs serious "brushing up", but it 
nevertheless does not detract from the quality of your stained 
glass..
But WHERE does Tomasz Bielinski figure in the Studio production??
As a Swede, I was obviously interested in what you had done in 
Uppsala (an old, historical medevial University town in Sweden), but 
it was one of the projects that was not available to view....
The Rest - Truly magnificent!
Go and have a look everybody!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby

Tomasz wrote:
In the meantime why not to visit our NEW homepage about 
stined glass and mosaic.

Regards
==========================================
Tomasz Bielinski <witraze@qdnet.pl>
http://www2.gol.com/users/kropka/witraze/index.html
tel/fax:      48 22 150417

SEE OUR NEW Homepage - new pictures and texts
about stained glass and mosaic. 
=============================================

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 17:56:39 1997
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From: Mark Wallace <erainbow2@pipeline.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: cutting with the swivel head
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:56:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970125035415.330f16e0@pop.pipeline.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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At 01:55 PM 1/25/97 -0700, Debbie Overton wrote:
 
>But what is the purpose of the swivel setting on the head?  I've been
>afraid to try it because it seems like I would have no control.  

That's really a good question Debbie.  The truth is the swivel feature
actually allows you to have more control over your scores.  When you use a
cutter with a fixed head and you're trying to score a curve, you have to
keep the plane in which the cutter wheel lies tangent to the curve at all
times.  This sounds easy but it isn't.  As you move your arm and wrist to
follow the curve and you're trying to advance the cutter, if the cutter
wheel strays from a tangent position it then wants to move in a direction
all its own.  When you finally see the error, you make a sharp correction,
and literally twist the wheel in the score line. If you're advancing the
cutter at the same time, it may just roll a bit in the wrong direction and
your score line will have a sharp peak in it.

The swivel feature lets you move your wrist and the handle of the cutter a
little bit without wiggling the wheel.  So when you cut a curve with a
swivel head, keep an index finger on the side of the cutter head and guide
the head with your finger.  In a really tight curve you may even want to
have an index finger on each side of the cutter head.  Advance the cutter
slowly and guide the wheel with your fingers and not your wrist.  The result
will be a much better score.  

The swivel feature is especially useful after your cutter wheel has worn a
bit. A slightly worn wheel will sometimes skip when you cut a curve with the
head in the locked position.  There are about 4 cutters in our shop that we
use all the time.  We always leave them in the swivel position even when
we're using a straight edge.  I'm used to keeping my index finger on the
side of the cutter head.  Hope this helps.

Mark

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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 18:51:44 1997
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X-Path: pilot..msu.edu!wrightk5
From: Kristen <wrightk5@pilot..msu.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: lead joints
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:55:25 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan25.145525.0>
References: <<1997Jan25.142716.0>>
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Precedence: bulk

Does anyone in the group "tuck " the lead under the leaf so that the
joints over lap? If so how is this done. I have not seen anyone in my
area teach this method, but I have looked at many old windows that do.
Most of the panels have seeming invisible solder joints. Where is the
lead solder?

The perplexed one,
-- 
[ Kristen                                                      ]       
[ wrightk5@pilot.msu.edu                                       ]
[                                                              ]
[ I speak for my self and only represent everything that I am. ]
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 19:14:14 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:09:17 PST
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.6917.0>
References: <<199701251611.LAA05779@mail.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I'd be interested in goin, please send me the information also. Thanks!
Mary Austin
801 Merry Ln. Greenwood In 46142. My daughter lives in Burwell England,
she's in the air force there. Thanks again.
diamonds@juno.com



On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:09:26 +0000 "Julie L. Sloan"
<jsloan@mail.computer.net> writes:
>Dear all,
>
>Since Albert opened the subject, I'll clarify it, even though it's 
>WAY too early: 
>
>I'm working on putting together a tour of Arts & Crafts stained glass 
>in England, to happen sometime in the summer of 1998. At the moment,  
>I'm hoping for early summer, May-June. It will go 
>from Birmingham to Oxford, to Cambridge, to London.  Registration 
>will be EXTREMELY limited -- max. 10 people, I think.  We don't have 
>a cost yet, either, but present plans are for it not to include 
>airfare, so local glass people could join, I think.  The organizer is 
>Arts & Crafts Tours, in New York.  If there is great demand, I 
>suppose they wouldn't be averse to doing it more than once.  If 
>anyone's interested, you can email me your mailing address and I'll 
>be sure you get info when it's available.  My email is 
>jsloan@usmail.net.
>
>In addition, I'm also thinking that I'd like to spend more time in 
>the UK doing research.  I'm definitely interested in lining up 
>lectures, consultations, etc., to help pay the way. If anyone knows 
>of a house to rent or borrow, I'd be interested.  I'd like to spend 
>time in Glasgow and in the Newcastle area, as well as the Midlands.
>My strength, in case anyone doesn't know, is 19th century stained 
>glass, not medieval (I wouldn't presume to lecture to the British 
>about medieval stained glass!)  Ideas and input would be useful and 
>appreciated.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 21:35:43 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: England tour
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:35:07 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan25.19357.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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<< tour of English stained glass sites. >>

Albert and/or Julie -  I'd love to be part of this.  Can we have details
please?  If it's extensive info, please email to me.  Thanks.  Barbara
Fernandez  -  Breckenridge Glass Studio
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From owner-glass Sat Jan 25 21:37:45 1997
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From: BarbaraBGS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Ultimate Glass Cutter"
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:37:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan25.193713.0>
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<< "Ultimate Glass Cutter", >>

What is this and who makes it?  Does it look different than a regular cutter?
 Barbara

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 02:20:08 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: England tour
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 05:25:03 +0000
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> << tour of English stained glass sites. >>
> 
> Albert and/or Julie -  I'd love to be part of this.  Can we have details
> please?  If it's extensive info, please email to me.  Thanks.  Barbara

As soon as info's available, it'll be posted, Barbara

Albert

 
Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 05:24:23 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass outside
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:27:58 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.62758.0>
References: <<1997Jan20.2173.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Jerri M Roey wrote:
> 
> Thanks.  Yes, I was thinking that if I did make any feeder or birdhouses
> to be used, that I would use the lead free.  I've never tried it, but
> have heard that it's not as easy to use.  Of course, if the birds like
> the house, they probably won't care how the solder looks.  Those good ol'
> wrens will nest anywhere.
> 
> Jerri
> 
> >I have a book of outside patterns for a bird house and az bird feeder.
> >
> >The author recomends using lead free solder... I have never used lead
> >free but it might be worth a shot for you
> >as always
> >CRZKT
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassHi, yesterday I was making Valentine Day jewerly, I used the lead free 
solder with no problems, I think you need a decent soldering iron that 
can maintain the temperture.
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 05:39:03 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hot Solder
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:42:35 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.64235.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970120121205.248757e6@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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B. J. Snell wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike,
>                 Let me attempt to describe the solder.  Holes, peaks, and in
> several places in looked like the neck of a basset hound.  Folds, if that
> sounds like something solder would do.  I did go over the bead a couple of
> times and it did seem to get better and worse at the same time.  It also
> looked like it had speckles  and spots in it.  (Dirty tip?)  I do use 60/40
> solder... however, I will try the 50/50 for the fill, will save a little
> money that way...
>                 BTW... I am using the liquid flux and plenty of it, is it
> possible to use too much?
> >
> >you did'nt mention what the bead looked like so i really would'nt be
> >able to identify the problem. i do know that a bead should be made once
> >because if you keep going over it, it'll just get worse each time.
> >
> >if you respond to this could you explain what the bead looks like,
> >smears, peaks, holes, splatters, etc....
> >
> >---Mike Savad
> Barbara J. Snell
> Dept. of Campus Life
> Cornell University
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassMy friend recently started in stained glass, and before he invested his 
money I asked him to check with me on his equipment. He did not and 
bougth what the retail store recommended. His soldering was awful. I 
left him use my soldering iron and his project had improved greatly. he 
immediately mailed an order to Delphi for the same iron that I use. I 
don't know why the difference in the irons but there are. When I did not 
have my good iron, I was becoming the best decorative solderer to try 
to disguise my problems. 
I do not know what iron the professions use, this might make 
the difference.
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 05:44:44 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Band Saw: Inside Curves
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:48:19 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.64819.0>
References: <<199701202005.OAA08063@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

len alcamo wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> Please excuse the following purist rant but......I think Mike S has
> described a curse of technology as applied to S.G. The cuts that you can
> make with a ring or band saw are not necessarily going to stand the test of
> time( example...the inside 90) as well the the rest of a carefully
> constructed piece. The old masters were more then capable of these exotic
> cuts with just a pair of pliers I know, I've seen them during restorations,
> but most of them crack and they were used infrequently. So what does that
> all mean? I think it suggests that S.G. has certain physical limitations and
> pieces should be designed accordingly. In my humble opinion its these
> limitations and working within them that give stained glass designs their
> uniqueness of line and form, otherwise it's just a drawing made into a
> panel. On the other hand if I see one more lead line coming out of the end
> of a birds beak I'm gonna scream!  ;-)
> 
> Len
> 
> 
> 
> >that of course is the bad side of using a bandsaw. you get next to
> >impossible places to foil, or sections so thin they break anyway. it's
> >alot more tricky, it takes a much longer time. i think i put down
> >foiling tips in my tips section on my page recently. if you go the front
> >page may lag, i'm having problems with my counter.
> >
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassYou are right about the bird beak. I made  a panel with japanese cranes, 
and every time  i look at it I see the line from the beak. Did not have 
the band saw at that time, but will use it the next time.
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 05:51:59 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 3" beveled rounders/w/1/8" hole
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:55:37 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.65537.0>
References: <<199701210841.XAA19444@calvino.alaska.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

alaska.net wrote:
> 
> Greetings from the Great NORTH;
>       I NEED SOME HELP!!!!
> . Am looking for a good place to buy(cheep)3"round glass bevels/1/8"hole.
> Living up here in GOD's country(ALASKA) I would like to find someplace on
> the west coast of the USA(shipping)
>    Can anybody help???
> Thanks
> Dick Sullivan
> rsully@alaska.net
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassI have not found 3 inch round...but i have found 4 inch round with a 
whole.. the price is $3.20 per 1 but as you buy more ..the price 
decreases. 12 is 1.90 and 24 is 1.75. The company is from Ohio. I buy my 
jewelry parts fom them ...National Artcraft.
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 06:18:03 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:21:38 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.72138.0>
References: <<1997Jan23.18481.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

leestat7 wrote:
> 
> Hi Rick,
> 
> You mention guilding glass, a subject I've wondered about-I would like
> to guild some patterns on a piece of glass, and possibly guild the
> solder lines in a Stained Glass Jewelry box.  (I make a lot of 3D
> pieces) would you please let me know the technique you use, and if it
> could guild solder lines too??? I have a small jewelers pen plating kit
> that I have not used yet. Thanks in advance for any tips you would
> share.
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> 
> Rick Bruser wrote:
> 
> > The glass cleaning issue seems to have  stirred up some ideas. I do a
> > lot of glass gilding, which  demands critcal cleaning.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassWhat is glass gilding?
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 06:29:39 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:33:11 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.73311.0>
References: <<199701250255.VAA29960@gate.usaor.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Mary Ann Dulemba wrote:
> 
> There are a few of us in Pittsburgh also interested!
> 
> I am from Gibsonia, near Pittsburgh..would also be interested
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 06:34:26 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Patterns
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:37:56 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.73756.0>
References: <<1997Jan25.133827.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Boatwright, W.L. wrote:
> 
> We are looking for a pattern of a Jaguar Thanks for any help. Also where
> can we purchase SGN ???
> Thanks Walter
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassJaguar, the cat or Jaguar, the car. Usually if I can not find the 
pattern,I will look through calenders and that retrace and enlarge to 
size I want.
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 06:35:29 1997
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: UK "Links" / Future Projects-Poland
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:30:47 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970115182741.269f8c18@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Here, here!!!! :) I agree with Elizabeth,  I surfed for awhile last night
and was very impressed also.... beautiful stuff!! then  I followed a bunch
of interesting threads which were new to me.  Thank You!  Meg

Richard and Meg LaVal
apdo. 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA
tel: 506 645 5052

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 10:23:14 1997
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From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha )
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 10:22:39 -0800
Message-ID: <199701261822.KAA23136@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You wrote: 
>
>[In the message entitled "Cuttin glass" on Jan 24,  2:13, Elsie 
Turqman writes:]
>
>> Do you draw the cutter toward you or push it away from you when you 
are
>> cutting  out a pattern. 
>> Is there a correct method or is it whatever floats you boat.


>
>I believe pushing it away from you is the correct way.
>
>Glenna Rand
>gjr@bungi.com



The only rule is there are no rules. Whatever works is correct. I 
usually cut from paper patterns so find that drawing the cutter towards 
me following the pattern is the most efficient for me. Others in our 
studio push away and they seem to be able to cut just fine.

ms

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 10:30:42 1997
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From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 10:30:11 -0800
Message-ID: <199701261830.KAA29467@mailtod-1.alma.webtv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hi Lee,  I would suggest reading up on it, there   are many facets to
Gilding. One of my favorite    books is "Gold Leaf Techniques" by
Raymond J Leblanc, published by The Signs of the Times     Publishing
Co. Lately I have been using a pro-  duct called " Angel Gild" on a few
glue chip projects. This is Gold (or Silver) in a liquid form. It`s a
whole different aproach than leaf, but the results are incredible. The
guy who developed it claims it can be used for surface gilding as well.
I bought the kit from Esoteric Sign Supply in Wilmington,Ca.,90744. 1646
Wilmington Blvd.    Phone is 310 549 6622 fax # 310 549 0810. Rick
Glawson is his name, he`s probably on the Web, I don`t have that
address. I better stop for  now, I get too windy! Good luck!   

Rick Bruser
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 10:31:22 1997
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X-Path: uninet.net!mcastle
From: mcastle@uninet.net (Martin Castle)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:32:40 -0500
Message-ID: <v01540b00af1153949722@[206.137.208.26]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



Your relpy to these message make no sense. So what if they wrote this I
can't find your response if no response why the message?

>leestat7 wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rick,
>>
>> You mention guilding glass, a subject I've wondered about-I would like
>> to guild some patterns on a piece of glass, and possibly guild the
>> solder lines in a Stained Glass Jewelry box.  (I make a lot of 3D
>> pieces) would you please let me know the technique you use, and if it
>> could guild solder lines too??? I have a small jewelers pen plating kit
>> that I have not used yet. Thanks in advance for any tips you would
>> share.
>>
>> Lee Boe
>> Rain-Boe's Creations
>>
>> Rick Bruser wrote:
>>
>> > The glass cleaning issue seems to have  stirred up some ideas. I do a
>> > lot of glass gilding, which  demands critcal cleaning.
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>----
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Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941

207 382 6207                  207 382 6207

Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
Islesboro Central School      Unity College
PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
Islesboro Maine 04848

207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220

207 734 8159 Fax

email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net

You can't be lost if you don't care where you are.








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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 10:41:55 1997
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: "B. J. Snell" <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hot Solder
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:41:29 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970126135044.25cf9e6c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

      Hi Gloria,   
                Will you tell me which iron you use?  I will be most
interested and 
will try it.... I am interested in becoming a decorative solderer too but
would very much like to straiten out the mess I am making now.  Thanks for
you advice.
>> I 
>left him use my soldering iron and his project had improved greatly. he 
>immediately mailed an order to Delphi for the same iron that I use. I 
>don't know why the difference in the irons but there are. When I did not 
>have my good iron, I was becoming the best decorative solderer to try 
>to disguise my problems. 
>I do not know what iron the professions use, this might make 
>the difference.
>----
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>
Barbara J. Snell
Dept. of Campus Life
Cornell University
bjs10@cornell.edu

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 10:46:40 1997
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X-Path: xavier.xu.edu!CRABLE
From: "Elaine Crable, 745-2029" <CRABLE@xavier.xu.edu>
To:   glass@bungi.com
Subject: art deco designs
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:44:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <970126134448.266456c5@xavier.xu.edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I would like to make a flat paneled vase in an art deco design for
a clear glass table.  Any suggestions on how I should go about
doing this or where I might find a pattern... or do I make the 
pattern?  I have only been doing glass for 6 months and I am
comfortable with construction but not too secure on the creative
end yet.

Thanks
Elaine
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 10:47:37 1997
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3
From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha )
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead joints
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 10:47:13 -0800
Message-ID: <199701261847.KAA10312@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You wrote: 
>
>Does anyone in the group "tuck " the lead under the leaf so that the
>joints over lap? If so how is this done. I have not seen anyone in my
>area teach this method, but I have looked at many old windows that do.
>Most of the panels have seeming invisible solder joints. Where is the
>lead solder?
>

Our studio tucks leads @ 1/4 flat and larger. Not only does this give a 
cleaner joint, but allows soldering to be done with little or no chance 
of solder touching the glass ( the solder is much harder than the lead 
thus offering more chance for breakage if it touches the glass.) This 
method of tucking also allows for better positioning of lead lines in 
the lineup prior to soldering. We also note a panel with leads tucked  
is considerably stronger in structure than an untucked panel.

Regarding the "invisible" solder joints, my guess is you are looking at 
a panel that was soldered by a skilled craftsman. Older panels also 
tend to oxidize in such a way that the solder and lead unify in color 
and tone thus minimizing the appearance of the joint.

ms
 
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 10:53:30 1997
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X-Path: tiac.net!phil7
From: Philip McRae <phil7@tiac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: news stuff on page
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:34:38 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.53438.0>
References: <<1997Jan24.83232.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Bob:

I find it simplier and far less frustrating to just delete certain 
members messages.  It's difficult to accept the long, long rewrites, and 
find a six work response at the very, very end.

Phil7


> 
> I recently suggested that the people on this group carefully edit their
> quoting and was promptly beaten down as an "alpha geek" and heretic.
> If you look at some messages , they include quotes and requotes of the
> bungi footer, as well as the current message's footer put on by bungi.
> 
> Oh well, I guess we just keep wading through all the junk in hopes of the
> rare gems.
> 
> Bob

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 11:22:23 1997
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X-Path: webtv.net!rickbruser
From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:21:45 -0800
Message-ID: <199701261921.LAA02365@mailtod-1.alma.webtv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

My apologies, Martin and Lee. I wrote a reply, I  don`t know what
happened to it. So I`ll try again. There are a lot of facets to
gilding,and I suggest a book by Raymond J Leblanc called     "Gold Leaf
Techniques".  I have recently been using a new product called Angel
Gild. It is Gold in a liquid form. Excellent results. They also sell a
silver kit for mirror like results . This  company is called Esoteric
Sign Supply in Wilmington, Ca 1646 Wilmington Blvd. 90744. Rick Glawson
is the guy I spoke to. Ph. 310 549 6622  Fax 310   549 0810. He`s
probably on the Web, I don`t have that address. Good luck!

Rick Bruser
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 13:23:30 1997
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Newsletter
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:19:50 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.51950.0>
References: <<1997Jan21.151041.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Attention:  Scott of SG News.
	I teach at the Skill Development Center at Vandenberg AFB and
would like to make the SG News available for the students and those who
purchase SG supplies at the Center.  Is this possible?  PJ from CA.

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 16:49:00 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: gilding-glass and solder 
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:45:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.14450.0>
References: <<199701261921.LAA02365@mailtod-1.alma.webtv.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Rick, appreciate the re-post.  I've not logged on for a couple of
days.  This is most useful, especially the "Angel Gild" I will contact
them tomorrow.  Also had in mind an "electro-plating" type of thing-and
have no idea if the lead/tin solder lines will take the plating.  Anyone
out there have any ideas for electro-plating?

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations


Rick Bruser wrote:
> 
> My apologies, Martin and Lee. I wrote a reply, I  don`t know what
> happened to it. So I`ll try again. There are a lot of facets to
> gilding,and I suggest a book by Raymond J Leblanc called     "Gold Leaf"
<snip>
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 17:24:05 1997
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From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: gilding-glass and solder
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:23:34 -0800
Message-ID: <199701270123.RAA29833@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hey Lee, I`m glad I got through. I`m a newbie on the Web, so I`m
learning as I go . I use the Angel Gild mostly for gilding glue chips. I
can gild in one swell foop instead of literally paying   more leaf into
the chip. The stuff turns golden right before your eyes, like magic! Am
told it`s the same stuff Merlin played with. Am also told you can
surface gild with it...i.e. solder? I also have a friend who works @
Gold Seal Plating      right down the street from here @3125 E 7th   
St. in Oakland, Ca. Ph# 510 536 6533. The guys name is Aaron, he seems
pretty knowledgable.   Good luck,

Rick Bruser
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 18:02:18 1997
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From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: gilding-glass and solder
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:01:38 -0800
Message-ID: <199701270201.SAA25465@mailtod-1.alma.webtv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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--WebTV-Mail-179577455-110
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Rick Bruser

--WebTV-Mail-179577455-110
Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

X-Path: webtv.net!rickbruser
From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: gilding-glass and solder
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:23:34 -0800
Message-ID: <199701270123.RAA29833@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hey Lee, I`m glad I got through. I`m a newbie on the Web, so I`m
learning as I go . I use the Angel Gild mostly for gilding glue chips. I
can gild in one swell foop instead of literally paying   more leaf into
the chip. The stuff turns golden right before your eyes, like magic! Am
told it`s the same stuff Merlin played with. Am also told you can
surface gild with it...i.e. solder? I also have a friend who works @
Gold Seal Plating      right down the street from here @3125 E 7th   
St. in Oakland, Ca. Ph# 510 536 6533. The guys name is Aaron, he seems
pretty knowledgable.   Good luck,

Rick Bruser
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--WebTV-Mail-179577455-110--
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 19:14:38 1997
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X-Path: netzone.com!lorley
From: Lorley L Oneyear <lorley@netzone.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: LasVegas
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 20:20:38 -0700
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970127032038.006928a0@mail.netzone.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

        Where can I find more information on the 
up coming stained glass show in March in Las Vegas??

Thanks, Lorley in Arizona

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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 19:36:30 1997
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From: Paul Deutsch <beermug@snowcrest.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: gilding-glass and solder 
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:36:02 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <199701270336.TAA16186@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Lee:

I've had many things electro-plated, in nickel and "brass" with no problems
except for irridized glass.  Sometimes the irridized catches the plating and
runs on the glass.  Lead and solder lines take the plating very well.

Sherry




  Also had in mind an "electro-plating" type of thing-and
>have no idea if the lead/tin solder lines will take the plating.  Anyone
>out there have any ideas for electro-plating?
>
>Lee Boe
>Rain-Boe's Creations



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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 20:52:37 1997
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X-Path: monmouth.com!clambert
From: CRZKT <clambert@monmouth.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass show
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 23:44:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.184412.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Enchanted Glass
Precedence: bulk

Last year I heard about a glass show in southern New Jersey.  I dont
remember the secs. on it,  The name  of Wheaton for some reason sounds
familar.  If I remember correctly it was a pretty big deal.  If any one
has information on this event I would really appreciate it.
Thanks in advance
CRZKT
p.s.
You people are great! I never fail to learn something new here.
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From owner-glass Sun Jan 26 21:50:11 1997
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From: Jim Jablonski <jimjab@sprintmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Soldering Irons
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:50:52 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan26.135052.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

To Gloria and the rest of the group...
What wattage soldering irons are people using for thier non-decorative
soldering?
I have not invested in a "Stained Glass" iron yet, I've been using a 60W
iron used for electronics.  It has a pencil point tip, not a chisel
tip.  It seems to work fine for both lead & foil, but I've had no formal
training in SG. (So, how do I know if it's right?) However, if I try to
solder wings onto a lead casting, the heat dissipates to quickly.  I
thought that using a 100W iron would fix that. (more power, grunt grunt)
Would it? If so, what's economical for a frugal guy like me?
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 03:40:48 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: LasVegas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:46:27 +0000
Message-ID: <199701271140.GAA06034@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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>         Where can I find more information on the 
> up coming stained glass show in March in Las Vegas??

Right here, Lorley:

Las Vegas Management, 2408 Chapman Drive, Las Vegas NV 89104-3455.
Phone: (800) 217-4527. (702) 734-0070. Fax: (702) 734-0636.

Glass Craft Expo '97 at Cashman Field Convention Center in Las
Vegas, NV March 13-16, 1997.  In
Las Vegas, a consumer show open to the public will feature more than
100 classes in all categories of art glass design, techniques, and
marketing presented by well-known instructors from across the nation.
A trade show open March 14-16 will feature new products and services,
manufacturers' demonstrations and an art glass gallery. The show's
primary objective is education, the secondary aim is for everyone to
have fun and achieve success. If you missed it before, don't miss it
this year.


Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 03:40:50 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass show
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:46:27 +0000
Message-ID: <199701271140.GAA06050@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


> Last year I heard about a glass show in southern New Jersey.  I dont
> remember the secs. on it,  The name  of Wheaton for some reason sounds
> familar. 

Last June, the following appeared in the IGGA Online News Memo ... I 
presume something similar would take place this year:

GlassWeekend
at Wheaton Village

This is THE weekend at Wheaton Village! An international symposium and
exhibition of contemporary glass opened yesterday and runs through
Sunday, June 15th. If you hadn't already planned to make the trip,
this is your chance to change your plans. Wheaton Village is at 1501
Glasstown Road, Millville, NJ 08332. Call (609) 825-6800 ext. 2733.

Albert



Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 05:31:41 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: Catalogs (fwd) (fwd)
Date:         Mon, 27 Jan 97 08:28:06 EST
Message-ID:   <970127.083126.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Well, the "tuna" thing in New England has to do with that bit of American
insanity known at the Super Bowl.  The coach of the New England patriots
is occasionally called "the big tuna" (I have no explanation).  It's
over now.  BTW, I saw not a single bit of stained glass in the Lousiana
Super Dome.  My mailer puts my sig file here, but original message below>

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
----------------------------Original message----------------------------

<snip here>
m> Not much help, am I?  Just arousing envy, aren't I?  It's just that
> the word "tuna" presently sets off everyone in New England.

 That line abiut the guitar and tuna was actually mine, but whatever,
but what's the flack about tuna? - is there now a 'mad fish' disease,
ala old England and cows??
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 06:08:32 1997
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From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: LasVegas
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:07:36 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199701271407.JAA10409@ddi.digital.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Visit their site at http://www.artglassworld.com/lvm.html for information.

Jennifer

At 08:20 PM 1/26/97 -0700, you wrote:
>        Where can I find more information on the 
>up coming stained glass show in March in Las Vegas??
>
>Thanks, Lorley in Arizona
>
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>
================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 06:33:23 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Cuttin glass
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:35:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.4356.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Rick,

Just what is a glue chipper? Someone who works with it or makes it? Please explain to un new folks.

Thanks, 
Linda Campbell

Rick said:

Are there
any other Glue Chippers out there? My search attempts come up empty.
Perhaps too esoteric.

begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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MO $>`' ``0```!$```!213H@0W5T=&EN(&=L87-S``````(!<0`!````%@``
M``&\#%])] %[_\EX'A'0N^ `W0$5E<@``!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% `````
M'@`?# $````2````;&-B96QL0&UE;6%C:"YC;VT````#``80ZI2UG0,`!Q#%
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M(.\(8 5 *M,?D$TKL!&P"L#_$7 >H ) $^ %, 0@!: '@*TC,' B@"ZA>20&
M4 20_1& < 0@(Q @4 >0*C$%$+YC) 8;72H6"H46P0`T( ```P`0$ `````#
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`
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 06:53:18 1997
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From: mcastle@uninet.net (Martin Castle)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: electro-plating
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:54:33 -0500
Message-ID: <v01540b00af127170f690@[206.137.208.27]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Yes, electro-plating does work on soldered glass, it needs to have points
for attachment as you need to run a current around the glass for the
electro-plating to work. I looks great. I have only seen it done on small
craft pieces not anything larger. Good luck Martin C

Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941

207 382 6207                  207 382 6207

Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
Islesboro Central School      Unity College
PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
Islesboro Maine 04848

207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220

207 734 8159 Fax

email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net

You can't be lost if you don't care where you are.








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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 07:04:16 1997
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summit-stained-glass
From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:03:50 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.15350.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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>What wattage soldering irons are people using for thier non-decorative
>soldering?
>I have not invested in a "Stained Glass" iron yet, I've been using a 60W
>iron used for electronics.  It has a pencil point tip, not a chisel
>tip.  It seems to work fine for both lead & foil, but I've had no formal
>training in SG. (So, how do I know if it's right?) However, if I try to
>solder wings onto a lead casting, the heat dissipates to quickly.  I
>thought that using a 100W iron would fix that. (more power, grunt grunt)
>Would it? If so, what's economical for a frugal guy like me?

We use Weller 100W with either 3/8" or 1/4" chisel tips for almost
everything.  A 700 degree tip works fine for lead and foil projects, but an
800 degree works best for hard cames like zinc, copper and brass.  There is
also a 600 degree tip avaiable if you like to decorative solder.  Another
iron we like a lot is the Hakko 60W, you need a rheostat for this one, but
you can dial in about any temp between 500 and 1000 degrees very easily and
it doesn't seem to fluctuate at all.  I have Wellers that are 10-12 years
old, been through student abuse, on site repairs, etc, and they're still
going strong.  The Hakko is almost two years in our studio now and still
doing fine.  The only iron I have heard any negatives on is the Ungar, but
have never owned one so would be interested to see others comments on that one.

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 07:39:56 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: art deco designs
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:33:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.53356.0>
References: <<970126134448.266456c5@xavier.xu.edu>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Elaine Crable, 745-2029 wrote:
> 
> I would like to make a flat paneled vase in an art deco design for
> a clear glass table.  Any suggestions on how I should go about
> doing this or where I might find a pattern... or do I make the
> pattern?  I have only been doing glass for 6 months and I am
> comfortable with construction but not too secure on the creative
> end yet.
> 
> Thanks
> Elaine
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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a book called "Distinctive Vases" should have what your looking for. 16
vases all colors picked out. except the pieces are quite large, but from
what i can tell they have pix of all the completed projects.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 07:47:30 1997
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From: "Robert E. Jones" <rejones@CapAccess.org>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Cutting glass
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:50:49 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.55049.0>
References: <<199701242106.VAA03187@linux.nildram.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> 2) Health & Safety reasons (though this has still eluded me)

Let me tell you, there are few things worse than driving a glass chip 
laden cutter into deep muscle tissue of your upper thigh.  This is not 
pleasant.

Bob

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 08:00:35 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Cuttin glass
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:59:39 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.155939.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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I have one customer that is a glue chipper .....  Bob Barker (no, he doesn't
do Price is Right),  14245 W 121 Terr, Olathe, Kansas, 66062, (913)780-2630.
He is not on-line so you'll have to contact him by mail or phone.  I have
seen some 1/4" clear plate that he chipped and looked pretty good.  

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

>Rick said:
>
>Are there
>any other Glue Chippers out there? My search attempts come up empty.
>Perhaps too esoteric.
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 09:04:24 1997
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From: rickbruser@webtv.net (Rick Bruser)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Cuttin glass
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:03:39 -0800
Message-ID: <199701271703.JAA14846@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi Linda, A glue chipper is someone who does   glue chipped glass. It
involves applying animal   hide glue to the glass. As the glue dries, it
shrinks. It keeps shrinking until it chips off the     surface of the
glass, taking a chunk of glass with it. This is just a brief
description, but it really is beautiful, clear or gilded. I have also
seen a golden colored stained glass that was     glue chipped. The
process is dramatic to watch   as the chips fly off the piece. Must be
careful     to collect chips if you have pets, so they don`t try to eat
them. Better go, 

Rick Bruser
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 09:49:22 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Cuttin glass
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:50:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.75034.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Rick,

I wasn't sure. I picked up a recipe somewhere on the net for doing it (clue 
chip) but thought it sounded too complex to be cost efficient, given the 
low prices of clue chip glass, but it sounds interesting. May try it 
someday.

Linda Campbell

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 10:46:26 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: gilding
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:42:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.84215.0>
References: <<199701271703.JAA14846@mailtod-2.alma.webtv.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Rick,

I ordered the "Angel Gild" kit this morning from Esoteric Sign Co. 
'Lola' there advised me on its use, and it sounds like what I have been
looking for.  Cold process 24kt gold gilding.  I will try it and
experiment with it.  With this kit, and the little gold electro plate
(pen plating) kit I have, should be able to do the process I want.  I
can't use the gold ceramic liquid gold, as it must be fired in a kiln at
1200degrees-which obviously would melt the solder on the piece.  Thanks
again for the info, I'll let you know how it goes.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 10:48:11 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: electro-plating
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:44:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.8448.0>
References: <<v01540b00af127170f690@[206.137.208.27]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Thanks Martin,

Between both processes, I should be able to do the effect I am trying to
achieve.

Martin Castle wrote:
> 
> Yes, electro-plating does work on soldered glass, it needs to have points
> for attachment as you need to run a current around the glass for the
> electro-plating to work. I looks great. I have only seen it done on small
> craft pieces not anything larger. Good luck Martin C
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 10:51:49 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: gilding-glass and solder
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:47:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.84739.0>
References: <<199701270336.TAA16186@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: @Home Network
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Thanks Sherry,

Which Co. does your electro-plating??

I may have some pieces that need Vat dipped plating.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Paul Deutsch wrote:
> 
> Lee:
> 
> I've had many things electro-plated, in nickel and "brass" with no problems
> except for irridized glass.  Sometimes the irridized catches the plating and
> runs on the glass.  Lead and solder lines take the plating very well.
> 
> Sherry
> 
>   Also had in mind an "electro-plating" type of thing-and
> >have no idea if the lead/tin solder lines will take the plating.  Anyone
> >out there have any ideas for electro-plating?
> >
> >Lee Boe
> >Rain-Boe's Creations
> 
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 12:31:21 1997
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From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: LasVegas
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:33:45 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.43345.0>
References: <<2.2.32.19970127032038.006928a0@mail.netzone.com>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Lorley L Oneyear wrote:
> 
>         Where can I find more information on the
> up coming stained glass show in March in Las Vegas??
> 
Glass Craft Expo '97
March 1997
Las Vegas Management  Tel: 702.734.0070; 800.217.4527
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 12:42:34 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:40:52 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.104052.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I<< A question on cutting technique from a semi-lurker who enjoys the byplay
as
 well as the info on glass.
  >>

I was also taught to pull the cutter towards me.  Recently,
I changed to the push technique.  I find I get far more accurate
cutting and it's faster. 

By pushing, you see where the cutter is going.
By pulling, you only see where it's been.

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 13:14:49 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:34:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.103417.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I<< So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
 at price, selection and quality?

So far from my research Delphi seems to have pretty good
prices.  Using the Mike Savad solder comparison: the last 
time I purchased 60/40 it was about $4 a roll on sale.

I just bought some glass from them and did an elaborate
price comparison with them and Whittemore Durgin.  Delphi
seemed to come up better on the Spectrum opals which I 
was buying.  Whittemore charges by the pound, so it was
impossible to compare across all the types of glass.

I have also used Warner Crivello in the past, there in PA.

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 15:54:30 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:50:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.135026.0>
References: <<1997Jan27.103417.0>>
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JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I<< So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
>  at price, selection and quality?
> 
I also recommend Glass Crafters in Sarasota, Fl-Prices are competive,
and they are very helpful-willing to help with questions, etc.  They
have both retail and wholesale-competive either way.
They have a web page,at:
http://www.craftweb.com/org/glascrafts/glascraf.shtml

Nice web page too.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 16:16:09 1997
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From: Elaine & Howard Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: Glass list <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: soldering irons
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 16:13:14 -0500
Message-ID: <199701280015.QAA11683@kim.teleport.com>
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-- [ From: Elaine & Howard Rubin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --


IMHO the idea and function of a soldering iron is melt solder.

The "hotta da iron", "da betta da solder melts".

I use a 1,000 degree ungar for the grunt work, and an 1,100 degree heater
for the finish soldering (beading).

We went through a phase of methods of cooling solder and other ways to
defeat the quality of the end result.

I use and strongly recommend a rheostat to idle the ungar when full heat is
not needed, or you want to leave it on, but not up to full heat.

Unless something gets my attention, this will be the last opinion on this
subject I will "voice", as I am not going to debate the use of a hot iron.
I know what I can do,(skill that is) and after 16+years and 1,012 units, and
experimenting with other ones, I still like the higher temperatures of the
ungar heaters.

enjoy..............H




--
New lamps added: http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard/
                 http://www.best.com/~cbs/howard         

E-Mail address is...weaver51@teleport.com

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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 16:43:58 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:47:14 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.174714.0>
References: <<1997Jan27.135026.0>>
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leestat7 wrote:
> 
> JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I<< So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
> >  at price, selection and quality?
> >
> I also like Anything in Staiened Glass from New Jewsey, Also on e amil.. 
Another good one is Hudson from New York. Delphi is also good. As with 
anything ...one might specialize in something better,,,,For unique bevel 
clusters and gifts I like Warner Crivellero from PA.. remember it is 
your money and shop for the better deal...
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 16:47:07 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:50:33 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.175033.0>
References: <<v01540b00af1153949722@[206.137.208.26]>>
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Martin Castle wrote:
> 
> Your relpy to these message make no sense. So what if they wrote this I
> can't find your response if no response why the message?
> 
> >leestat7 wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Rick,
> >>
> >> You mention guilding glass, a subject I've wondered about-I would like
> >> to guild some patterns on a piece of glass, and possibly guild the
> >> solder lines in a Stained Glass Jewelry box.  (I make a lot of 3D
> >> pieces) would you please let me know the technique you use, and if it
> >> could guild solder lines too??? I have a small jewelers pen plating kit
> >> that I have not used yet. Thanks in advance for any tips you would
> >> share.
> >>
> >> Lee Boe
> >> Rain-Boe's Creations
> >>
> >> Rick Bruser wrote:
> >>
> >> > The glass cleaning issue seems to have  stirred up some ideas. I do a
> >> > lot of glass gilding, which  demands critcal cleaning.
> >> ----
> >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassWhat is glass gilding?
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> 
> Martin Castle                 Debbie Sugerman Ph.D
> 135 Deer Hill Rd              135 Deer Hill Rd
> Freedom Maine 04941           Freedom Maine 04941
> 
> 207 382 6207                  207 382 6207
> 
> Martin Castle                 Dr. Debbie Sugerman
> Guidance Director             Professor Outdoor Education
> Islesboro Central School      Unity College
> PO Bx 118                     Unity Maine 04988
> Islesboro Maine 04848
> 
> 207 734 2251                  207 948 3131  Ex 220
> 
> 207 734 8159 Fax
> 
> email-mcastle@uninet.net     email--dsugerman@uninet.net
> 
> You can't be lost if you don't care where you are.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassPlease reply...I do jewelry with glass...the technique could help. Thank 
you.
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 16:49:33 1997
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From: Paul Deutsch <beermug@snowcrest.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: plating
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:48:58 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <199701280048.QAA18564@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>
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Lee-

I take my things to a plating shop in town, most chrome shops can do the
process, you should be able to locate one near you in the yellow pages.  Ask
to see a sample of their "brass", sometimes the solder ends up with black
spots if it isn't done properly.
Sherry



Thanks Sherry,
Which Co. does your electro-plating??
I may have some pieces that need Vat dipped plating.
Lee Boe




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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 16:57:22 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Hot Solder
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:00:44 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.18044.0>
References: <<2.2.16.19970126135044.25cf9e6c@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>>
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B. J. Snell wrote:
> I started out with the Ungar Iron... But the Iron I use now is the Hakko 
"Super Pro" 60watt iron... This is also the one I made Dave buy...Also 
this is the second one I bought...seems it has a life span.l..Lasted 
about 2 years of alot of use... I bought mine from Delphi...best price 
but better in the fall when they have the 25% off sale.. Sad---needed 
the Iron and had to pay the full price...but realize it was still the 
best investment.. Please use a reostat.
> 
> 
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> Barbara J. Snell
> Dept. of Campus Life
> Cornell University
> bjs10@cornell.edu
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 17:03:18 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: art deco designs
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:06:46 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.18646.0>
References: <<970126134448.266456c5@xavier.xu.edu>>
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Elaine Crable, 745-2029 wrote:
> 
>If I can suggest... If you find a nice design, you can adapt that design..Sounds like you have something in mind....In Stained Glass News 
, one of the the contributors, Carolyn Kyle, has an article of designing 
it your way... It is worth collecting the copies and studying.
thanks,
Gloria

 Thanks
> Elaine
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 17:12:59 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:16:25 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.181625.0>
References: <<1997Jan26.135052.0>>
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Jim Jablonski wrote:
> 
> To Gloria and the rest of the group...
> What wattage soldering irons are people using for thier non-decorative
> soldering?
> I have not invested in a "Stained Glass" iron yet, I've been using a 60W
> iron used for electronics.  It has a pencil point tip, not a chisel
> tip.  It seems to work fine for both lead & foil, but I've had no formal
> training in SG. (So, how do I know if it's right?) However, if I try to
> solder wings onto a lead casting, the heat dissipates to quickly.  I
> thought that using a 100W iron would fix that. (more power, grunt grunt)
> Would it? If so, what's economical for a frugal guy like me?
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassI also did a little research. I believe that the ceramic heatere irons 
maintain a better temperature or to say the lost of  temperature. We 
need an even temperature through our projects.. The one I like best is 
the Hakko  "Super Pro" 60 watt iron.  I still use a reostat.. And if 
fixing a broken panel.. In use an older iron and crank the rheo up high.
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 17:25:24 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:28:45 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.182845.0>
References: <<1997Jan27.104052.0>>
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JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I<< A question on cutting technique from a semi-lurker who enjoys the byplay
> as
>  well as the info on glass.
>   >>
> 
> I was also taught to pull the cutter towards me.  Recently,
> I changed to the push technique.  I find I get far more accurate
> cutting and it's faster.
> 
> By pushing, you see where the cutter is going.
> By pulling, you only see where it's been.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassI have a problem with my wrist and arm muscles.. I bought a pistol 
cutter when I started cutting class.. It seems I have more control when 
I push away from me with the pistol cutter... this is the Toya model.
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From owner-glass Mon Jan 27 17:26:39 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Catalogs
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:29:58 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan27.182958.0>
References: <<1997Jan27.135026.0>>
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leestat7 wrote:
> 
> JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I<< So my question is... For mail-order catalogs what do you feel is best
> >  at price, selection and quality?
> >
>I am very happy with Anything in Stained Glass from New Jersey.  They also are on e mail.  Very nice People..But each catalog has its 
speciality.... Delphi is also good and Hudson from New York has it 
advantages.  One might be good for glass, one for equipment, one for 
specialties.. For some unique bevel designs-Warner Crivillero from PA is 
nice. You have to shop even in catalogs.


> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 04:18:01 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "',3hounds@usaor.net'" <,3hounds@usaor.net>,
Subject: RE: Cuttin glass
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:19:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.21923.0>
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Gloria,

I am really interested in what you have to say but as you can see below I 
have a hard time finding the beginning of your posts. Perhaps if you hit a 
<return> before typing, your first line would not blend in with the 
bungi.com signature.

Thanks,
Linda


>   >>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassI have a problem with my 
wrist and arm muscles.. I bought a pistol
cutter when I started cutting class.. It seems I have more control when
I push away from me with the pistol cutter... this is the Toya model.

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 06:09:30 1997
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From: Jennifer Daniels <agw@digital.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: LasVegas
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:08:57 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199701281408.JAA05586@digital.net>
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Sorry about that.  The site has been moved to
http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/lvm.  You can also always find any
member of Art Glass World from the members page.  I'm also happy to report
that our billboard is fully functional again.  Thanks to everyone for their
patience.

Jennifer

Visit their site at http://www.artglassworld.com/lvm.html for information.

Jennifer

At 08:20 PM 1/26/97 -0700, you wrote:
>        Where can I find more information on the 
>up coming stained glass show in March in Las Vegas??
>
>Thanks, Lorley in Arizona
>
================================================================
Jennifer Daniels                    agw@digital.net
Art Glass World                     http://www.artglassworld.com
4002 W. State Street                phone: 813-348-0605
Tampa, FL  33609  USA               fax: 813-872-6288
================================================================

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 06:32:44 1997
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From: David Cogen <cogen@ll.mit.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Ultimate Glass Cutter"
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 09:28:16 -0500
Message-ID: <9701280928.AA16476@LL.MIT.EDU>
References: <<1997Jan25.193713.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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> What is this and who makes it?  Does it look different than a regular cutter?
>  Barbara

I got it in a place in Winthrop Mass, called "the Ultimate Glass Shoppe." The
guy there claimed he invented it. I don't know how wide the distribution is. I
got it about 5 years ago, but haven't been back there since.

Kind of hard to describe. It has a wide cylindrical hold, which you grip with
thumb and middle finder. You rotate this to steer the cutter. Over this is a
vertical ring in which you insert your first finder, to stabilize and apply
pressure. There is a compression spring between the two parts; it is claimed
that this allows you to apply the precise amount of pressure (just press until
the spring compresses).

At first I was skeptical because I was previously using a lot more pressure
than the spring. But using this device made me realise that much less pressure
is required. Now, my scores are so light that I can barely hear or see them,
and yet my cuts almost always work.

Would I recommend it? I don't know, having used little else to compare it
with. But I guess I am satisfied.


-- David
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 07:47:22 1997
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From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:46:07 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199701281546.JAA07634@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


>IMHO the idea and function of a soldering iron is melt solder.
>
>The "hotta da iron", "da betta da solder melts".
>
>I use a 1,000 degree ungar for the grunt work, and an 1,100 degree heater
>for the finish soldering (beading).


 I use wattage to determine which iron I use for what, probably more *seat
of the pants* then knowing the temp.

My arsenal includes the following ....and they all get use

80w Weller
150w American Beauty
175w Hexacon w/90 degree head
200w American Beauty
300w Hexacon  (for de-soldering rebar)  

I don't know if American Beautys' are made any more but I guess it's a moot
point since they never burn out.  ;-)

I also have a modest collection (about 15) of old non-electric soldering
irons in various shapes, sizes and vintages. Anyone else collect these?

Len

PACKERS RULE!!!!



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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 08:12:21 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:06:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.6637.0>
References: <<199701281546.JAA07634@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
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len alcamo wrote:
> 
> >IMHO the idea and function of a soldering iron is melt solder.
> >
> >The "hotta da iron", "da betta da solder melts".
> >
> >I use a 1,000 degree ungar for the grunt work, and an 1,100 degree heater
> >for the finish soldering (beading).
> 
>  I use wattage to determine which iron I use for what, probably more *seat
> of the pants* then knowing the temp.
> 
> My arsenal includes the following ....and they all get use
> 
> 80w Weller
> 150w American Beauty
> 175w Hexacon w/90 degree head
> 200w American Beauty
> 300w Hexacon  (for de-soldering rebar)
> 
> I don't know if American Beautys' are made any more but I guess it's a moot
> point since they never burn out.  ;-)
> 
> I also have a modest collection (about 15) of old non-electric soldering
> irons in various shapes, sizes and vintages. Anyone else collect these?
> 
> Len

although i don't "collect" them, i must have around 20 of different
sizes. BTW the biggest irom i have is a hexacon 550w, very heavy, the
tip is 1" in diameter and takes like a half hour to heat up. once i had
to use it because i other iron dies and that's all i had, very difficult
and tiring...


---Mike Savad



-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 08:39:26 1997
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: soldering irons
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:40:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.64050.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Now we know the secret of all those intricate pieces on your web page. You 
must use that humungus iron to get in those small spots. Now I know JUST 
how skilled you are. :)

Linda Campbell


---Mike Savad said:

BTW the biggest irom i have is a hexacon 550w, very heavy, the
tip is 1" in diameter and takes like a half hour to heat up. once i had
to use it because i other iron dies and that's all i had, very difficult
and tiring...




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`
end

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 09:36:17 1997
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Soldering Style
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:48:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.6481.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

On the subject of soldering, someone said watching someone solder is better 
than reading about it and I agree but unfortunately I have only seen 3 
folks solder, Vicky Paine on tv and two friends. How do most of you solder? 
I mean do you use both hands and guide the end of the solder spool along 
the tip of your iron or do you pick up solder with iron tip and dab it on? 
Say on a flat panel.

I have a hard time regulating the touch and flow of the solder if I try the 
first way (2 handed). So I began dabbing. It looked a lot like decorative 
soldering at first but now I am getting so I can get a pretty smooth bead 
this way. i'm using a weller 100w with built in temperature control tip and 
60/40 solder. Should I keep doing what I am doing or will there be a time I 
wished I had forced myseld to work two handed with the end of the solder 
against the tip as I solder?

Thanks, looking forward to hearing how the pros do it. Vicky Paine makes it 
all look so easy.

Linda Campbell

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 10:04:33 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: LasVegas
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:09:08 +0000
Message-ID: <199701281802.NAA11936@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> Sorry about that.  The site has been moved to
> http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/lvm.  

Very cool logo!

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 11:03:13 1997
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X-Path: direct.ca!tonsper
From: tonsper@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Seminar
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:02:37 -0800
Message-ID: <199701281902.LAA10328@orb.direct.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>...American Bevel, Inc. is planning to hold seminars to teach how to 
>use our "Designer" software program...
I would very much like to be a part of your seminar.  If your 
company should be heading towards Vancouver, BC, 
please e-mail me.  
Thanks.
Debbie Alexander
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 11:04:40 1997
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 12:03:56 -0700
Message-ID: <m0vpIp7-000LiCC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1997Jan28.6481.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
> I have a hard time regulating the touch and flow of the solder if I try the 
> first way (2 handed). So I began dabbing. It looked a lot like decorative
> soldering at first but now I am getting so I can get a pretty smooth bead
> this way. i'm using a weller 100w with built in temperature control tip and 
> 60/40 solder. Should I keep doing what I am doing or will there be a time I 
> wished I had forced myseld to work two handed with the end of the solder
> against the tip as I solder?

i think you're going to want to learn the other way. it adds less heat to  
the panel in the long run, which can cause the foil to lift off.

i solder two handed; placing the end of the solder on the top of the chisel  
just behind the tip and letting it run down onto the foil. you have to learn  
how fast you can move the iron, but when you're doing it correctly, the  
solder will lay down a nice bead that you don't have to go back over.

my wife, on the other hand, does what you do. however, it takes her 2-3  
times longer to get it looking good and she gets frustrated that it doesn't  
look good the first time.

---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 11:37:55 1997
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X-Path: westbyserver.westby.mwt.net!alcamoz
From: len alcamo <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:31:38 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199701281931.NAA15630@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



 BTW the biggest irom i have is a hexacon 550w, very heavy, the
>tip is 1" in diameter and takes like a half hour to heat up. once i had
>to use it because i other iron dies and that's all i had, very difficult
>and tiring...


Holy Moly Rocky ! a 550 watter ! a guy could get sunburned from a beast like
that!

I wonder what they use that for, soldering splices on a high line?  ;-)

Where did you find that monster?

Len

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 12:36:33 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting glass
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:36:00 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.10360.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

<< Let me tell you, there are few things worse than driving a glass chip 
 laden cutter into deep muscle tissue of your upper thigh.  This is not 
 pleasant >>

Seems like a good argument for the "push" school of glass cutting.

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 14:49:08 1997
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X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:43:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.124317.0>
References: <<199701281931.NAA15630@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

len alcamo wrote:
> 
>  BTW the biggest irom i have is a hexacon 550w, very heavy, the
> >tip is 1" in diameter and takes like a half hour to heat up. once i had
> >to use it because i other iron dies and that's all i had, very difficult
> >and tiring...
> 
> Holy Moly Rocky ! a 550 watter ! a guy could get sunburned from a beast like
> that!
> 
> I wonder what they use that for, soldering splices on a high line?  ;-)
> 
> Where did you find that monster?
> 
> Len
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i got it at a garage sale, for a couple of bucks. i figure it was used
to solder the inside of radiators, garbage cans, etc, when they did
that. the other large sizes i have are 300w and i think 150w. all of
these are used only for an emergency basis. the 550w takes literly hours
to cool. it must weigh over 5 pounds, which at first does'nt seem so
heavy, but if you have to hold it in the air for extended periods of
time, it's kinda hard.



---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 14:50:31 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:36:22 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.123622.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.6481.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> On the subject of soldering, someone said watching someone solder is better
> than reading about it and I agree but unfortunately I have only seen 3
> folks solder, Vicky Paine on tv and two friends. How do most of you solder?
> I mean do you use both hands and guide the end of the solder spool along
> the tip of your iron or do you pick up solder with iron tip and dab it on?
> Say on a flat panel.
> 
> I have a hard time regulating the touch and flow of the solder if I try the
> first way (2 handed). So I began dabbing. It looked a lot like decorative
> soldering at first but now I am getting so I can get a pretty smooth bead
> this way. i'm using a weller 100w with built in temperature control tip and
> 60/40 solder. Should I keep doing what I am doing or will there be a time I
> wished I had forced myseld to work two handed with the end of the solder
> against the tip as I solder?
> 
> Thanks, looking forward to hearing how the pros do it. Vicky Paine makes it
> all look so easy.
> 
> Linda Campbell
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the method i use is the two hand method, i keep the iron at a 45 degree
angle with the corner on the tip towards the seam. the tip is slightly
hovering above the seam, though because my arm gets tired the iron drags
along the seam. when i'm soldering, i look at the tip and feed the
solder into the tip. the idea is, is to look at and slightly head of
the  area you want to solder. you'll see a little, flow of solder,
(kinda like if you put your finger in a drop of water, and lift your
finger, you get kind of a column of water). though my face tends to be
kind of close when doing this, so i have to wear a basic respirator of
some kind. and after that it's lots of practice...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 15:07:20 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cuttin glass
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:10:48 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.161048.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.21923.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> Gloria,
> 
> I am really interested in what you have to say but as you can see below I
> have a hard time finding the beginning of your posts. Perhaps if you hit a
> <return> before typing, your first line would not blend in with the
> bungi.com signature.
> 
> Thanks,
> Linda
> 
> >   >>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glassI have a problem with my
> wrist and arm muscles.. I bought a pistol
> cutter when I started cutting class.. It seems I have more control when
> I push away from me with the pistol cutter... this is the Toya model.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



Thanks, I am still learning this PC..Will be taking PC classes starting 
in Feb.. What you might have missed is that I have a wrist problem-no 
strenght...I found using a pistol cutter and scoring away from me 
works...thanks to all of you for the help in clearing up my messages... 
Also, I know everyone complained about the additional message replies 
they have to read through to get to the new message...Again, not being 
PC knowledgeable, how do you correct to make everyone happy.
thanks.
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 15:16:44 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:20:17 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.162017.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.6481.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> On the subject of soldering, someone said watching someone solder is better
> than reading about it and I agree but unfortunately I have only seen 3
> folks solder, Vicky Paine on tv and two friends. How do most of you solder?
> I mean do you use both hands and guide the end of the solder spool along
> the tip of your iron or do you pick up solder with iron tip and dab it on?
> Say on a flat panel.
> 
> I have a hard time regulating the touch and flow of the solder if I try the
> first way (2 handed). So I began dabbing. It looked a lot like decorative
> soldering at first but now I am getting so I can get a pretty smooth bead
> this way. i'm using a weller 100w with built in temperature control tip and
> 60/40 solder. Should I keep doing what I am doing or will there be a time I
> wished I had forced myseld to work two handed with the end of the solder
> against the tip as I solder?
> 
> Thanks, looking forward to hearing how the pros do it. Vicky Paine makes it
> all look so easy.
> 
> Linda Campbell
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


Vicki started me also..That was the first Ungar I bought was from her.. 
I do like the Hakko "super pro" 60 better.. It fasinates me.. The solder 
flows from the spool onto the panel. You can pick up the iron from the 
project (say 1/8 inch)  and the solder still follows..It is like line 
drawing- you can than go back and without the solder smooth the bead.
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 15:20:55 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting glass
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:24:27 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.162427.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.10360.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> 
> << Let me tell you, there are few things worse than driving a glass chip
>  laden cutter into deep muscle tissue of your upper thigh.  This is not
>  pleasant >>
> 
> Seems like a good argument for the "push" school of glass cutting.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


How did that happen.. Are you okay.. Maybe in my beginning I was lucky 
and learned to push.HA.
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 15:31:52 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:35:22 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.163522.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.123622.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Linda Campbell wrote:
> >
> > On the subject of soldering, someone said watching someone solder is better
> > than reading about it and I agree but unfortunately I have only seen 3
> > folks solder, Vicky Paine on tv and two friends. How do most of you solder?
> > I mean do you use both hands and guide the end of the solder spool along
> > the tip of your iron or do you pick up solder with iron tip and dab it on?
> > Say on a flat panel.
> >
> > I have a hard time regulating the touch and flow of the solder if I try the
> > first way (2 handed). So I began dabbing. It looked a lot like decorative
> > soldering at first but now I am getting so I can get a pretty smooth bead
> > this way. i'm using a weller 100w with built in temperature control tip and
> > 60/40 solder. Should I keep doing what I am doing or will there be a time I
> > wished I had forced myseld to work two handed with the end of the solder
> > against the tip as I solder?
> >
> > Thanks, looking forward to hearing how the pros do it. Vicky Paine makes it
> > all look so easy.
> >
> > Linda Campbell
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> the method i use is the two hand method, i keep the iron at a 45 degree
> angle with the corner on the tip towards the seam. the tip is slightly
> hovering above the seam, though because my arm gets tired the iron drags
> along the seam. when i'm soldering, i look at the tip and feed the
> solder into the tip. the idea is, is to look at and slightly head of
> the  area you want to solder. you'll see a little, flow of solder,
> (kinda like if you put your finger in a drop of water, and lift your
> finger, you get kind of a column of water). though my face tends to be
> kind of close when doing this, so i have to wear a basic respirator of
> some kind. and after that it's lots of practice...
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 
> New Pages Added:
> 
>  - More Tips and Techniques
>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>  - The History of My Shop
>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


I feel pretty good about my soldering ..I did not when I started.. 
Again, I feel that technology might have helped us.. The ceramic heaters 
maintain the heat without the weight of a heavy iron. With tentinious I 
could not hold a heavy iron for long. Yet, my light weight iron pulls me 
through my projects..however, the draw back could be that the ceramics 
do not have years of a life. .. but for $56.  per 2 years might be a 
good investment.
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 15:43:38 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!VAFI4
From: VAFI4@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: what grinder to buy
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:43:14 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.134314.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I am very new to this stained glass and I would like to know what type of a
grinder to get. I don't want to pay a fortune but i want it to last me .
Another thing is , I will be moving to Europe soon  and I would like to have
the address of a mail order place in Germany where I can get a 220 Volt
solder. I already have a 110 one that I use here.I asked the mail order
companies here  and they told me that they do not carry 220 v. soldering
irons although they do carry 220 v. grinders. Thanks. VAFI4 @AOL.COM
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 18:47:06 1997
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X-Path: americanbevel.com!ab
From: Richard davis Ashoff <ab@americanbevel.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Glass Craft  Expo '97
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:57:29 -0800
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.95729.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: American Bevel, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Hello Bungis;

Thank you for your response to our e-mail asking about a seminar.

American Bevel, Inc. will be conducting a seminar at 
Glass Craft Expo '97.

The class is on March 13th at 9:00AM to 5:00PM and then continuing until
9:00PM if needed.

This will be a "hands on" class. Everyone will have the use of a pentium
computer.

We will cover the following: 
Drawing objects; sizing, rotating, slanting, Bezier curve, line/curve
conversions, and straight & freehand lines.
General; saving, importing, exporting, printing, plotting, copying,
pasting,zooming, and scanning.
Color; color your windows with glass that has been scanned by the glass
companies.

The cost is $300.00 per person, this includes the "Designer" software.
Discounts for those who already have "Designer".

Deadline for registration is Feb. 25, 1997. The class is limited to (25)
people.

To register call Las Vegas Management at 800.217.4527.

See you at the show.

Richard Ashoff
American Bevel, Inc.
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 18:51:54 1997
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X-Path: gunnison.com!debbi
From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: storage
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:59:57 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.115957.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?  

Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all the
help I can get.

Thanks all.

Debi in Gunnison
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 19:10:18 1997
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!izzy3
From: izzy3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Smoucha )
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cutting glass
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:16:17 -0800
Message-ID: <199701290216.SAA25978@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

You wrote: 
>
><< Let me tell you, there are few things worse than driving a glass 
chip 
> laden cutter into deep muscle tissue of your upper thigh.  This is 
not 
> pleasant >>
>


Either that or keep from plunging the glass cutter into your thigh.

ms

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 19:33:12 1997
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From: pmgoff <pmgoff@concentric.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 220v grinder
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:37:33 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.143733.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.134314.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Gloria,

Perhaps you may want to consider purchasing a converter/inverter adapter
plug which would drop one phase of the 220, making it into 110v so that
you can use an American grinder or soldering iron.  (This is similar to
what you see on many appliances\hairdryers where you just flip the
switch to choose 220v or 110v.)

["Converters and sets of adapter plugs are available at travel & luggage
stores and at Radio Shack/Tandy and other electronic stores. They can
often be found in airport shops and duty free stores. A set of adapter
plugs costs around $10 to $15US and in some stores you can buy an
individual adapter for only a few dollars."]

I hope to learn about what you find or purchase there.
Pam
=======================

VAFI4@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I am very new to this stained glass and I would like to know what type of a
> grinder to get. I don't want to pay a fortune but i want it to last me .
> Another thing is , I will be moving to Europe soon  and I would like to have
> the address of a mail order place in Germany where I can get a 220 Volt
> solder. I already have a 110 one that I use here.I asked the mail order
> companies here  and they told me that they do not carry 220 v. soldering
> irons although they do carry 220 v. grinders. Thanks. VAFI4 @AOL.COM
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 20:39:15 1997
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From: pphilb@tc3net.com (Peggy  Philbrook)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:32:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.183226.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.115957.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I put mine on the bookshelves with the books acting as dividers.  I also
use the plastic see-through shoe boxes for smaller pieces, and zip lock
bags for the really small pieces.  (I'm pretty cheap about keeping small
pieces)
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 20:54:37 1997
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X-Path: win.bright.net!hdevos
From: Harold De Vos <hdevos@win.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: WordenSystems specifications
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:54:10 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.165410.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.162017.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I live out in the boonies and, as such, must mail order everything! 

Question, is there a site anywhere on the web which gives the same 
glass specifications that are included with a Worden lamp pattern? 
(or any other system for that matter) I want this because right now 
I have to make two separate purchases, one to get the pattern with 
the enclosed specifications and a latter too long delayed purchase for 
the glass I have selected as a result.

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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 20:59:07 1997
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From: Glascraftr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: newbie with questions
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:58:17 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan28.185817.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi, I'm fairly new to the group and I have, I'm sure, an old question.  I got
a new soldering iron for Christmas-an Inland Insta-heat.  My old iron is a
Weller 100.  I don't remember how to break in a new iron properly.  Could you
all refresh my memory some?  I'd appreciate it.  I know I shouldn't use a
rheastat (sp?) to control the temp on my Weller, but I'm supposed to with the
Inland.  (I do have the rheastat.)  HELP!   I really love this group and have
been lurking for a while.  

Thanks in advance!

Debby
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From owner-glass Tue Jan 28 22:34:04 1997
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X-Path: juno.com!rockingbird
From: rockingbird@juno.com (Terry L Biegler)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:00:09 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.609.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.115957.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I store my glass in plastic racks you buy at the office supply store.
They fit together so you can keep adding on as many as you need. Each
slot is about 3 or 4 inches wide and I just put the glass in so it stands
vertically. I also have one plastic coated wire rack for bigger pieces.
It's stronger.
                                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      ~                   ~         Jim & Terry Biegler         ~        
            ~
~       ~        ~          ~    Rockingbird Studio    ~        ~        
 ~          ~
            ~                           Ft. Worth, TX                    
     ~
                                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


On Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:59:57 -0700 Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
writes:
>I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
>storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting 
>up
>a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
>misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?  
>
>
>Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all 
>the
>help I can get.
>
>Thanks all.
>
>Debi in Gunnison
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 00:49:54 1997
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From: llutz <llutz@tpgi.com.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 220v grinder
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:49:02 +1100
Message-ID: <1997Jan30.6492.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.143733.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> Perhaps you may want to consider purchasing a converter/inverter adapter
> plug which would drop one phase of the 220, making it into 110v so that
> you can use an American grinder or soldering iron.  
(Large snip) I am not familiar with the European electrical system but
it would pay to check it out- we have 220v here- but- it is single phase
and the USA has 3 phase for 220v. Our 3 phase is 440v- 2 wires carry
220v each and the third wire is neutral. In addition, the other problem
is cps (cycles per second- the number of reversals in current direction
per second). The USA has 60cps and we have 50cps which means your
grinder would run at a significantly lower speed- maybe not critical
-dont't try it on something like a cd player- the sound is terrible!
Hope this helps a bit- BTW, I just ordered an international grinder from
Delphi
Larry from Australia

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 02:19:09 1997
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From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 220v grinder
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:18:40 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <9701291018.AA12401@crosfield.co.uk>
References: <<1997Jan30.6492.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> 
> > Perhaps you may want to consider purchasing a converter/inverter adapter
> > plug which would drop one phase of the 220, making it into 110v so that
> > you can use an American grinder or soldering iron.  

One thing to watch here - If you do go for the converter, check the
power rating, and whether it's for continuous use or not. You'll probably
find that you need a pretty large one for power tools like grinders; in
the UK tandy [radio shack] used to sell two models: a little plug adapter
one for low power, intermittent use - which used to get very hot just
running a modem, which uses very little power - and a larger 100W or so
version in a seperate case; larger versions still are used for industrial
power tools. 

> per second). The USA has 60cps and we have 50cps which means your
> grinder would run at a significantly lower speed- maybe not critical
> -dont't try it on something like a cd player- the sound is terrible!

Minor correction: The frequency difference should only affect things
using AC synchronous motors, like mains powered wall clocks (and probably at
least some record turntables).

I can't figure out whether this is likely to include power tools or not; I
suspect that it may not in many cases - especially variable speed things -
but I can't swear to it :-).

It isn't going to affect anything running
off a DC power supply, like computer disk or CD drives - and it shouldn't 
affect CD players anyway, since CD players use variable speed motors -
they spin faster when playing tracks near the center, and slower at the
edge. It's extremely rare these days to find things that use mains frequency
as a reference - since there are microprocessors in just about everything
these days, timing is usually derived from the crystal controlled clock
oscillator that drives the microprocessor.


-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 05:13:20 1997
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X-Path: computer.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: New member slides
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:19:08 +0000
Message-ID: <199701291312.IAA09345@ns.computer.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Check out Beth Williams' new images at

http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 05:43:31 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: storage
Date:         Wed, 29 Jan 97 08:40:15 EST
Message-ID:   <970129.084318.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<1997Jan28.115957.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I picked up a couple of paper racks (the kind used to store files, etc on
desktops) at a discount store.  They work very well for storing pieces of
glass a square foot and smaller.  At about 1/8 of a square foot, I start
tossing scraps into color-coded boxes.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 05:46:31 1997
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From:         mail <HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
To:           glass@bungi.com
Subject:      Re: storage
Date:         Wed, 29 Jan 97 08:43:52 EST
Message-ID:   <970129.084621.EST.HCLADM02@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
References: <<1997Jan28.115957.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Oh, yeah, I also have a two-tier lazy susan (taken from the kitchn years ago)
that I keep on the corner of the table.  Good place to keep flux, a roll of
solder, wire, pliers, a pencil tin, etc..any little thing I'm using in
construction.

--
Dorothy Kalahan, Interlibrary Loan  (860) 679-2940  FAX (860) 679-4046
UCONN Health Center Library, POB 4003, Farmington CT 06034-4003
HCLADM02@UConnVM.uconn.edu
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 06:08:10 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
Subject: Re: storage
Date: 29 Jan 97 09:02:55 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.14255.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi there Debi.  I use an unconventional storage method.  Being an ex-computer
geek, I got a bunch of old computer tape storage racks and use them.  These are
the wire racks which have about 20 slots in them.  I got about 7 of these from
various companies which were getting rid of a lot of their old mainframe
computer tape systems, and were more than happy to give them to me.  I store the
larger pieces in these.  For the smaller, but still usable, pieces, I put them
into old 5 1/4" computer diskette holders (the plastic holders which can hold
around 20 diskettes).  I segregate them by color and opaqueness.

...Christie

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 06:17:48 1997
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From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 220v grinder
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:09:41 PST
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.17941.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.134314.0>>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk


My daughter and her husband are in the air force in England and while
traveling there with them I had the opportunity to use one of the
adaptors, they work well at times. I would try to purchase the product
already 220 as this will add to the lifetime of your iron. Hope this
helps.
Mary



On Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:37:33 -0600 pmgoff <pmgoff@concentric.net> writes:
>Gloria,
>
>Perhaps you may want to consider purchasing a converter/inverter 
>adapter
>plug which would drop one phase of the 220, making it into 110v so 
>that
>you can use an American grinder or soldering iron.  (This is similar 
>to
>what you see on many appliances\hairdryers where you just flip the
>switch to choose 220v or 110v.)
>
>["Converters and sets of adapter plugs are available at travel & 
>luggage
>stores and at Radio Shack/Tandy and other electronic stores. They can
>often be found in airport shops and duty free stores. A set of adapter
>plugs costs around $10 to $15US and in some stores you can buy an
>individual adapter for only a few dollars."]
>
>I hope to learn about what you find or purchase there.
>Pam
>=======================
>
>VAFI4@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> I am very new to this stained glass and I would like to know what 
>type of a
>> grinder to get. I don't want to pay a fortune but i want it to last 
>me .
>> Another thing is , I will be moving to Europe soon  and I would like 
>to have
>> the address of a mail order place in Germany where I can get a 220 
>Volt
>> solder. I already have a 110 one that I use here.I asked the mail 
>order
>> companies here  and they told me that they do not carry 220 v. 
>soldering
>> irons although they do carry 220 v. grinders. Thanks. VAFI4 @AOL.COM
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
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>
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 06:17:58 1997
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	id m0vpapA-0000w7a; Wed, 29 Jan 97 06:17 PST
X-Path: juno.com!diamonds
From: diamonds@juno.com (Mary J Austin)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:07:32 PST
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.17732.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.115957.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

I had my husband build me some glass storage shelves that I put under the
table and then I picked up a medium size shelf to hand on the wall for
storage of my patterns. You could even have a glass storage unit built
on the very end of your table if you won't be using the full length for
your projects.
Mary




On Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:59:57 -0700 Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
writes:
>I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
>storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting 
>up
>a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
>misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?  
>
>
>Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all 
>the
>help I can get.
>
>Thanks all.
>
>Debi in Gunnison
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 06:19:50 1997
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	id m0vparI-0000zka; Wed, 29 Jan 97 06:19 PST
X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:14:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.41412.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.115957.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Debi Overton wrote:
> 
> I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
> storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
> a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
> misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?
> 
> Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all the
> help I can get.
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Debi in Gunnison
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


if you hav'nt checked out yet, go to my page, i have pix and
explanations of my shop...

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 06:22:43 1997
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Received: by daver.bungi.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6)
	id m0vpau2-0000j5a; Wed, 29 Jan 97 06:22 PST
X-Path: mail.smu.edu!gshultz
From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:22:00 -0600
Message-ID: <v01530502af150c94d12f@[129.119.37.12]>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Before the days of CDs (when dinosaurs still roamed the earth and we all
wore animal skins), there were record cabinets and it is still possible top
pick up cheap record cabinets now that that are small enough to fit under
tables. These are great for storing smaller pieces of glass and most
"stuff."

=Gary



>I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
>storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
>a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
>misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?
>
>Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all the
>help I can get.
>
>Thanks all.
>
>Debi in Gunnison
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
    ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~


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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 06:27:25 1997
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	id m0vpayZ-00012Ta; Wed, 29 Jan 97 06:26 PST
X-Path: aol.com!StnGlsTres
From: StnGlsTres@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:26:46 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.42646.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello, all, have been lurking awhile but thought I'd pop out for the storage
question.  I use metal vertical files purchased from the office supply store
to hold glass up to a little over a square foot.  I prefer it over the "open"
glass holders such as the Morton vertical sorter, because it has full support
on all sides.  I don't keep much glass larger than about a square foot, but
what I have is leaning against the side of my workbench.  I'm sure most
people have heard as I have that you should NEVER store glass flat
(horizontal) because the pressure can make the glass crack....I guess it's
true?

My workbench has a pegboard back that I hang my tools on, and an overhead
small shelf that I keep flux, solder, glass cleaner, wax, foil, etc. on.  For
larger scraps as well as jewels and bevels, I use a couple of small 4-drawer
organizers that you can get at Wal-Mart/K-Mart/Target etc.  For itty bitty
pieces of glass (I also have a hard time throwing anything away!!), I
currently am using emptied tissue boxes, the square upright kind as opposed
to the oblong flat kid - I keep the itty bitty stuff because I'd like to get
into mosaics sometime.  My workbench also has an enclosed space underneath,
which is where the glass scraps live at the moment.  I use standard magazine
files to keep my pattern books and stained glass magazines handy.

As for supplies, I know everyone has their favorites.  Personally, after a
comparison of the basic things I use over and over, I've found that Delphi
seems to have the best price on a day-to-day basis.  But it's good to get on
the mailing lists of all the big places because they all send sales flyers
throughout the year, too.

Stephanie Hansen
Stained Glass Treasures

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 06:27:41 1997
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	id m0vpayu-0000kma; Wed, 29 Jan 97 06:27 PST
X-Path: mars.superlink.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: newbie with questions
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:22:01 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.4221.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.185817.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Glascraftr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi, I'm fairly new to the group and I have, I'm sure, an old question.  I got
> a new soldering iron for Christmas-an Inland Insta-heat.  My old iron is a
> Weller 100.  I don't remember how to break in a new iron properly.  Could you
> all refresh my memory some?  I'd appreciate it.  I know I shouldn't use a
> rheastat (sp?) to control the temp on my Weller, but I'm supposed to with the
> Inland.  (I do have the rheastat.)  HELP!   I really love this group and have
> been lurking for a while.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Debby
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


alrighty then, after pluggin in the iron and it's all nice and hot, pull
out your tinning block, and rub the iron on the edge of the surface.
make sure not to burn your self, and try not to breathe in all the smoke
it's going to make. once your done with that, coat a little 50-50
(does'nt have to be 50-50 but's it's cheaper), (just don't use old
solder scraps or you'll get a dirty iron). the the solder sit on the
iron for a while, then wipe the tip off on a soldering sponge. repeat
the process a second time. only this time don't wipe the iron off, (the
solder will seal the tip). 

it should be safe to use a reostat with your inland. on the weller, it
has some sort of basic built in reostat, and if the electricity is'nt
constant it's not good for the iron.  lemme know (or us), how well the
new iron works, i'm thinging of getting one, because replacing my ungar
is very expensive.

---Mike Savad



-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
----
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 07:17:23 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:16:43 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.51643.0>
References: <<1997Jan29.42646.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk



On Wed, 29 Jan 1997 StnGlsTres@aol.com wrote:


>
>  For itty bitty
> pieces of glass (I also have a hard time throwing anything away!!), I
> currently am using emptied tissue boxes, the square upright kind as opposed
> to the oblong flat kid - I keep the itty bitty stuff because I'd like to get
> into mosaics sometime. 

You want, cheap? We'll give you cheap! In the studio where I am
privileged to work, space is at a premium. Since Patty doesn't do mosaics,
she flings all kinds of good, usable pieces of glass. This breaks my
Scottish heart.

In desperation to save some particularly good hunks one day, I looked
around for anything that would hold glass. In this  studio a lot of
seltzer is drunk, leaving behind 1 litre plastic bottles. If you cut that
bottle 90% of the way round pretty far up the body, you get a good clear
container for long pieces. Fold the top back down, coupla hunks of tape
and you are ready to take your salvage home. 

Once you have your rescued treasures in a safe place, sit it in 6 pack
carrier and remove the top. Easily portable access to all your good
scraps, free. How can you beat that?
 
Enjoy!

Mary


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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 07:20:01 1997
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X-Path: hiline.net!rgvmuse
From: Rio Grande Valley Museum <rgvmuse@hiline.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:24:23 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.32423.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.115957.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Organization: HiLine Internet Customer
Precedence: bulk

Debi Overton wrote:
> 
> I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
> storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
> a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
> misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?
> 
> Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all the
> help I can get.
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Debi in Gunnison
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Debi, Hi! from this group you'll get lots of good suggestions.  My
"quickie contribution" would be for those plastic "crates" - they're
stackable, you can get solid or grid ones, they're heavy-duty enough to
be placed with the open side up or to the front, can be labeled,
inexpensive, etc. and then when you get exquisite modular or custom
storage, as time goes by, then the "milk carton crates are always good
for storing stuff, in garage, in attic or where ever....Linn
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 07:30:45 1997
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>,
Subject: RE: Soldering Style
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:32:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.53218.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

First of all thanks, Mike and others for help in soldering style. I will 
have to give the floating above my work method a try on that prairie lamp I 
beginning. BTW, I got the large vase cap tinned. It wasn't as difficult as 
I was expecting. But, I am going to have to use a torch to smooth it out 
some. Should have had your 1 inch, 550 volt iron, Mike  ;-).

Now, when you are hovering over your work with your iron, are you holding 
the iron like a pencil or like a butter knife? I hold mine like a pencil. 
Held like a knife, it's difficult to get my face low enough to see what's 
going on, if my elbow is above my head.

Thanks,
Linda Campbell

Mike Said:

the method i use is the two hand method, i keep the iron at a 45 degree
angle with the corner on the tip towards the seam. the tip is slightly
hovering above the seam, though because my arm gets tired the iron drags
along the seam. when i'm soldering, i look at the tip and feed the
solder into the tip. the idea is, is to look at and slightly head of
the  area you want to solder. you'll see a little, flow of solder,

begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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`
end

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 13:50:28 1997
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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:49:02 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.11492.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 97-01-28 23:44:57 EST, you write:

<< misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?  >>

Go to garage sales and look for old lp storage racks.  They work great for
smaller pieces around a sq foot size.  Doesn't work for full sheets. :)
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 14:31:59 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mosaics
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 17:20:53 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970129171402.0067c188@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hi, everyone!

A couple of people have mentioned mosaics lately whihchasmore than piqued
my interest! I, too, have a yen and a plan to expand my hobby to include
the tiny tiles (and my glass scraps!).

I would love to hear from any mosaicists (is that a word?) by email ... as
this is off topic, really.

Thanks.

And thanks to all for the storage tips ... I'm setting up a new studio
these days and the ideas are marvelous!

M.-J.





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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 16:21:58 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: I gotta know!!!
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:10:52 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970129185904.00692cb4@pop.bridge.net>
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At 10:17 AM 1/25/97 +0000, Albert wrote:
> 
>> What's an alpha geek?
>
>Actually, there's only one these days: Bill Gates.
>
>In animal relationships, the alpha male is the one who gets to breed, 
>so it follows that in computerese a "geek," otherwise the homliest, 
>smartest, most out-there male, the one who's allowed to do anything 
>he wants to do, would be the alpha geek. Logically, then, it would 
>follows that there's only one and the choices would rapidly narrow to 
>Gates. <g> In order to keep this from being a non-glass comment, .... <snip>

Very Funny, very Funny!!!!! But you're not fooling me! ;p

M.-J. Taylor

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 16:29:14 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: netiquette
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:18:09 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970129191806.00697d50@pop.bridge.net>
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At 10:02 PM 1/25/97 -0800, <person@freenet.org> wrote:
>-- 
>the list ( bungi.com) has already determined that if you open you mouth
>too wide your foot will get stuck. 


Don't worry, your foot looks fine!

>We are human and some of us do like
>to here testamonials form others just to be sur that there is life
>outside of our studios. <snip>

I understand and appreciate that others may have a different opinion than
mine. That's all I was expressing. My own opinion. And, as part of the
current list, I believe my voice is legitimate.

M.-J. Taylor

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 17:00:15 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: New member slides
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:03:25 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.18325.0>
References: <<199701291312.IAA09345@ns.computer.net>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> Check out Beth Williams' new images at
> 
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists
> A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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She Is Great.
Thanks for sharing
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 17:04:54 1997
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From: Gloria <3hounds@usaor.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:08:28 -0200
Message-ID: <1997Jan29.18828.0>
References: <<v01530502af150c94d12f@[129.119.37.12]>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Gary Shultz wrote:
> 
> Before the days of CDs (when dinosaurs still roamed the earth and we all
> wore animal skins), there were record cabinets and it is still possible top
> pick up cheap record cabinets now that that are small enough to fit under
> tables. These are great for storing smaller pieces of glass and most
> "stuff."
> 
> =Gary
> 

Yes, House sales still have these. I have picked up a few there.
> >I need help!  I have a nice 12 foot long table for doing glass, but no
> >storage, so... everything is sitting on top.  I'm thinking of putting up
> >a small pegboard for tools and a wall cabinet to one end for all the
> >misc.   Also, how do you store your glass?  Any unconventional ideas?
> >
> >Been enjoying the info, especially ideas for soldering.  I need all the
> >help I can get.
> >
> >Thanks all.
> >
> >Debi in Gunnison
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
>       ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
>     ~~~) Gary Shultz - SMU News and Information (~~~
>   ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(~~~~~~~
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 19:33:56 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: news stuff on page
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 22:22:34 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970129192754.006972e0@pop.bridge.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hear, hear!

Responses at the top, please! It makes going through mail so much faster!

MJ

At 01:34 PM 1/26/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Bob:
>
>I find it simplier and far less frustrating to just delete certain 
>members messages.  It's difficult to accept the long, long rewrites, and 
>find a six work response at the very, very end.
>
>Phil7
>
>
>> 
>> I recently suggested that the people on this group carefully edit their
>> quoting and was promptly beaten down as an "alpha geek" and heretic.
>> If you look at some messages , they include quotes and requotes of the
>> bungi footer, as well as the current message's footer put on by bungi.
>> 
>> Oh well, I guess we just keep wading through all the junk in hopes of the
>> rare gems.
>> 
>> Bob

>

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 21:41:49 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:43:11 -0800
Message-ID: <199701300541.VAA11582@aphex.direct.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>I use ice cream buckets for some of my small pieces, I also have a buddy in
the bearing industry who gets me these great small wooden boxes that
bearings get shipped in from across the pond. These boxes are great as they
have handles and lids so their also stackable.  I'm also cheap in saving all
my small pieces, and when I have alot or I just need a break from a big
project I do up a bunch of butterflies or birds, or flowers to give as gifts
to friends and visitors. 

Karin
>
>On Wed, 29 Jan 1997 StnGlsTres@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>  For itty bitty
>> pieces of glass (I also have a hard time throwing anything away!!), I
>> currently am using emptied tissue boxes, the square upright kind as opposed
>> to the oblong flat kid - I keep the itty bitty stuff because I'd like to get
>> into mosaics sometime. 
>
>You want, cheap? We'll give you cheap! In the studio where I am
>privileged to work, space is at a premium. Since Patty doesn't do mosaics,
>she flings all kinds of good, usable pieces of glass. This breaks my
>Scottish heart.
>
>In desperation to save some particularly good hunks one day, I looked
>around for anything that would hold glass. In this  studio a lot of
>seltzer is drunk, leaving behind 1 litre plastic bottles. If you cut that
>bottle 90% of the way round pretty far up the body, you get a good clear
>container for long pieces. Fold the top back down, coupla hunks of tape
>and you are ready to take your salvage home. 
>
>Once you have your rescued treasures in a safe place, sit it in 6 pack
>carrier and remove the top. Easily portable access to all your good
>scraps, free. How can you beat that?
> 
>Enjoy!
>
>Mary
>
>
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Wed Jan 29 22:11:03 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: storage
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 22:12:28 -0800
Message-ID: <199701300610.WAA18404@orb.direct.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Christie
Thanks for the tip on the wire disk racks. I managed to snafoo one from the
office when we switched to back up tapes for our main frame. At the time I
didn't know what I could use the rack for, now I know. Actually the rack I
have was for the disks when they were at least 20 " across. We've come a
long way since them haven't we. 
Karin
  
>Hi there Debi.  I use an unconventional storage method.  Being an ex-computer
>geek, I got a bunch of old computer tape storage racks and use them.  These are
>the wire racks which have about 20 slots in them.  I got about 7 of these from
>various companies which were getting rid of a lot of their old mainframe
>computer tape systems, and were more than happy to give them to me.  I
store the
>larger pieces in these.  For the smaller, but still usable, pieces, I put them
>into old 5 1/4" computer diskette holders (the plastic holders which can hold
>around 20 diskettes).  I segregate them by color and opaqueness.
>
>...Christie
>
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Thu Jan 30 00:51:14 1997
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From: llutz <llutz@tpgi.com.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 220v grinder
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 06:29:29 +1100
Message-ID: <1997Jan30.172929.0>
References: <<9701291018.AA12401@crosfield.co.uk>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Jerry Cullingford wrote:
> 
> >
> > > Perhaps you may want to consider purchasing a converter/inverter adapter
> > > plug which would drop one phase of the 220, making it into 110v so that
> > > you can use an American grinder or soldering iron.
> 
> One thing to watch here - If you do go for the converter, check the
> power rating, and whether it's for continuous use or not. You'll probably
> find that you need a pretty large one for power tools like grinders; in
> the UK tandy [radio shack] used to sell two models: a little plug adapter
> one for low power, intermittent use - which used to get very hot just
> running a modem, which uses very little power - and a larger 100W or so
> version in a seperate case; larger versions still are used for industrial
> power tools.
> 
> > per second). The USA has 60cps and we have 50cps which means your
> > grinder would run at a significantly lower speed- maybe not critical
> > -dont't try it on something like a cd player- the sound is terrible!
> 
> Minor correction: The frequency difference should only affect things
> using AC synchronous motors, like mains powered wall clocks (and probably at
> least some record turntables).
> 
> I can't figure out whether this is likely to include power tools or not; I
> suspect that it may not in many cases - especially variable speed things -
> but I can't swear to it :-).
> 
> It isn't going to affect anything running
> off a DC power supply, like computer disk or CD drives - and it shouldn't

My apologies- I picked a poor example- anything on DC is not affected-
an AC motor would be- a variable speed would still be variable- but I
suspect it would be a bit slower- (pause- the cat just tried to walk on
my keyboard to help me with this), Anyway- my experience is that
transformers for anything except low power devices can add a lot of
extra expense. BTW- does the UK have the 220v 50cps single phase system
too? I would think we inherited it from you.
Larry in Oz


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From owner-glass Thu Jan 30 00:51:18 1997
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From: llutz <llutz@tpgi.com.au>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 220v grinder
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:49:02 +1100
Message-ID: <1997Jan30.6492.0>
References: <<1997Jan28.143733.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

> Perhaps you may want to consider purchasing a converter/inverter adapter
> plug which would drop one phase of the 220, making it into 110v so that
> you can use an American grinder or soldering iron.  
(Large snip) I am not familiar with the European electrical system but
it would pay to check it out- we have 220v here- but- it is single phase
and the USA has 3 phase for 220v. Our 3 phase is 440v- 2 wires carry
220v each and the third wire is neutral. In addition, the other problem
is cps (cycles per second- the number of reversals in current direction
per second). The USA has 60cps and we have 50cps which means your
grinder would run at a significantly lower speed- maybe not critical
-dont't try it on something like a cd player- the sound is terrible!
Hope this helps a bit- BTW, I just ordered an international grinder from
Delphi
Larry from Australia


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From owner-glass Thu Jan 30 04:01:06 1997
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From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: 220v grinder
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:00:33 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <9701301200.AA19639@crosfield.co.uk>
References: <<1997Jan30.172929.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Anyway- my experience is that
> transformers for anything except low power devices can add a lot of
> extra expense. 

Yes. Especially for higher powered stuff :-).

>BTW- does the UK have the 220v 50cps single phase system
> too? I would think we inherited it from you.
> Larry in Oz

Sort of. Domestic supplies are single phase; Business may also have three
phase supplies (Along a street, houses may alternate - so when something
blows, it may only affect every third house - as happened a few years
back round the corner from us when I was visiting a friend. Something blew;
every third house went dark. The electricity board workmen arrived, dug up
the cables, tried a quick fix and spliced the failed line onto another
phase. Lights came back; five minutes later, two out of three houses
went black. Undeterred, they tried splicing everyone onto the remaining
phase; not altogether surprisingly, that took out the entire street :-).

Now for the fun bit: the Voltage used to be a nominal 240V (although 220V
electronics usually work fine). Now there's some European community
harmonisation thing (Yes, the plugs are still different; we have fused
(normally 3A/5A/13A) 13A plugs with 3 rectangular pins, which are different
from the european ones) so the nominal voltage has changed - probably 230V,
but maybe 220. However, the _Actual_ voltage hasn't changed yet - the
tolerances are defined so that everyones voltage meets the standard...

For electronics, it's not a big issue; 220V equipment works fine. For
things like electric heaters, it may make a slight difference.

-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc@crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc@selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)
\__/     -----------------------------------------------------
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 30 04:06:16 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: 30 Jan 97 07:02:11 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan30.12211.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

M.J.	Mosaics is not off topic, as it is another method of doing stained glass.
I do mosaics.  Just finished constructing a table with a stained glass mosaic
pattern on the top based on a quilt pattern.  Turned out quite nice, and is now
for sale at a local art gallery.  If you have any questions, just ask.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Thu Jan 30 10:27:00 1997
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From: Liz Linton <melinton@alison.sbc.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:20:52 -0500
Message-ID: <l03010d00af1696a092ec@[198.28.38.107]>
References: <<1997Jan30.12211.0>>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

>M.J.	Mosaics is not off topic, as it is another method of doing stained
>glass.
>I do mosaics.  Just finished constructing a table with a stained glass mosaic
>pattern on the top based on a quilt pattern.  Turned out quite nice, and
>is now
>for sale at a local art gallery.  If you have any questions, just ask.
>...Christie

Christie--
I'm really interested in getting started with mosaics. What did you put
around the edge of the table or how did you conceal the edge of the mosaic
so it looks nice?
Thanks
--Liz in central VA

Liz Linton
Serials Librarian
Sweet Briar College

804-381-6315
melinton@alison.sbc.edu
http://gos.sbc.edu


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From owner-glass Thu Jan 30 10:34:58 1997
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From: Martin Streng <mstreng@ibm.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: what grinder to buy
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 19:27:34 +0100
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970130182734.00678c30@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Hello VAFI,

I don=B4t know of any mail order places in Germany for this subject. Asked=
 the
same question a couple of days before, but got no adresses.
But don=B4t panic. Distances here are different from those outside Europe.=
 So
there should allways be a shop in a reasonable distance.=20
If you are moving near the Dutch border, i could show you around in Ede
(glass) and Arnhem (glass and supplies). Don't know if they're competitive
in price though..



At 18:43 28-01-97 -0500, you wrote:
>I am very new to this stained glass and I would like to know what type of a
>grinder to get. I don't want to pay a fortune but i want it to last me .
>Another thing is , I will be moving to Europe soon  and I would like to=
 have
>the address of a mail order place in Germany where I can get a 220 Volt
>solder. I already have a 110 one that I use here.I asked the mail order
>companies here  and they told me that they do not carry 220 v. soldering
>irons although they do carry 220 v. grinders. Thanks. VAFI4 @AOL.COM
>----
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>
>
Martin Streng

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From owner-glass Thu Jan 30 15:43:22 1997
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From: Redware1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 18:42:44 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan30.134244.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Christie,

I am a potter - also with an interest in the mosaics.  Did you use the
Tiffany wrought iron table with your tabletop, or make your own?  The book
recommends using fiberglass reinforced concrete, but I know someone that uses
hydrocal ( which is not waterproof ). What do you find the best material to
pour into the mold for a tabletop? Is a certain brand of glass that is better
to use for nice color and/or weather resistance? Have you used anything to
color the cement?

There was a discussion in the AOL boards on what to charge for the stones.
 The stones seemed to be going for $75.00 - $200.00.  No discussion on the
tables - of course, the price of the base table has to be considered.  If not
bought wholesale, they can run $42.00 on up.  Do you have a ball park figure
for the finished tables?  Since you are in a gallery, you might be able to
ask more.  I plan to sell the tables and possibly some stones in my booth
with my pottery at fine art and fine craft shows.

I am really excited in adding another area in my artwork.  I have always been
interested in mosaics and when I saw the stones in a bird and garden store, I
fell in love with the look. I have spent this month researching and am ready
to get started!  I would appreciate any tips you might have on making the
mosaics.

Thanks!

Diane Zubrick
Applecreek Pottery
Centerville, Ohio

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From owner-glass Thu Jan 30 16:25:39 1997
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From: Debi Overton <debbi@gunnison.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mike's Web Page
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 17:26:18 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan30.102618.0>
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Hey Mike.  A whilte back you said you had never found your page when
surfing.  I was surfing today and found it.  I was in Yahoo, went down
to 'recreation', (in the list on the main page, not a search) then
'hobbies & crafts' then stained glass, then companies and there it
was...Just yours and one more.  I've been to your page before, but
hadn't spent as much time there as I wanted.  Your shop is great, wish I
had more space.

Thanks for all the storage ideas.
-Debi
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 30 16:53:55 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mike's Web Page
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 19:48:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan30.14485.0>
References: <<1997Jan30.102618.0>>
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Debi Overton wrote:
> 
> Hey Mike.  A whilte back you said you had never found your page when
> surfing.  I was surfing today and found it.  I was in Yahoo, went down
> to 'recreation', (in the list on the main page, not a search) then
> 'hobbies & crafts' then stained glass, then companies and there it
> was...Just yours and one more.  I've been to your page before, but
> hadn't spent as much time there as I wanted.  Your shop is great, wish I
> had more space.
> 
> Thanks for all the storage ideas.
> -Debi
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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yeah it seems all the people who write to me about the page, all say
that they either found me in yahoo or excite. through currently i must
have registered in over 300 search engines... but the important thing
is, is that their finding me...which BTW is at about 60-80 hits per day
on average....:)

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
 - How to Fix Mistakes
 - The History of My Shop
 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 30 17:52:56 1997
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From: Redware1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Kokomo glass
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 20:51:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan30.155148.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Does anyone know if you can go to the Kokomo glass factory in Kokomo, Indiana
and still buy stained glass?  I have a friend that went there in the 80's to
buy scrap glass.  I sent an e-mail to Kokomo, but got no response.

Thanks!

Diane
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From owner-glass Thu Jan 30 19:53:13 1997
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From: Warner-Crivellaro <warnerc@fast.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: new glass site
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 22:49:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan30.174939.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Hey all you computer users!
Check out Warner-Crivellaro's web site. I know you will be pleased!
You will be able to take advantage of different sales that will always
be changing. Get all the technical tips you need, visit the glass
warehouse and look at actual glass scans and much much more! See for
yourself. You will find us at www.warner-criv.com.
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 00:10:43 1997
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From: AAnder2369@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Patina
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 02:31:16 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan30.213116.0>
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Hi!

  We are the oldest stained glass manufacturer in the beautiful islands of
the Philippines.  And due to the economic upsurge going on we have been up to
our necks in fullfilling orders.  One of our biggest problems is our supply
of patinas, we are currently thinking of producing our own, can anybody help
us out on this matter.
Your reply is greatly appreciated and if you ever visit our beautiful country
please let us know and we'll be glad to tour our fellow stained glass makers
around.

Thnaks,

Amos
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 01:07:48 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 01:09:16 -0800
Message-ID: <199701310907.BAA12466@orb.direct.ca>
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Christie wrote:
>M.J.	Mosaics is not off topic, as it is another method of doing stained glass.
>
I watched a program of TV today "Home Style" and they had someone do
mosaics, except that she used tile instead of glass. I guess the principal
is the same. What do you use as a grout ? If I remember correctly, there's
been some discussion with this group some time ago on mosaics and I just
couldn't visualize the end result. Needless to say I was impressed with the
finished product, and it's probably something I will take a stab at.

Karin.     

>
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 01:20:38 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: what grinder to buy
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 01:22:09 -0800
Message-ID: <199701310920.BAA29605@aphex.direct.ca>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Vafi you wrote:
>I am very new to this stained glass and I would like to know what type of a
>grinder to get. 

This is not on the topic of S.G., but what part of Germany are you going to? 
My birth place is Koblenz, and most of my relations are still there. Please
let me know when you arrive there & have e-mail set up. I would really
appreciate this. Thanks.  

Karin.   

>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 01:34:18 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Where's Howard
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 01:35:57 -0800
Message-ID: <199701310933.BAA17385@orb.direct.ca>
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Haven't seen Howard here for a while ! Has he been here & I've just not seen
him.  Miss your input. 

Karin
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>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 01:47:36 1997
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From: kmccullo@direct.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Soldering Style
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 01:49:12 -0800
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>M. Savad wrote:
>> 
>> Linda Campbell wrote:
>> >
>> > On the subject of soldering. 
      
>> I use the same method as Mike described. Shoulders get a little tired
after a while but I learned this way and I find that I get a smoother bead.
And as Mike said the face gets quite close to where your soldering so I
always try to either have a small fan blowing the fumes away from me or just
trying to get some good cross ventilation.
>> Karin
>> New Pages Added:
>> 
>>  - More Tips and Techniques
>>  - How to Fix Mistakes
>>  - The History of My Shop
>>  - My Adventures of Mold Making
>> 
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>I feel pretty good about my soldering ..I did not when I started.. 
>Again, I feel that technology might have helped us.. The ceramic heaters 
>maintain the heat without the weight of a heavy iron. With tentinious I 
>could not hold a heavy iron for long. Yet, my light weight iron pulls me 
>through my projects..however, the draw back could be that the ceramics 
>do not have years of a life. .. but for $56.  per 2 years might be a 
>good investment.
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 04:15:04 1997
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From: karenro <karenro@newpig3.newpig.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:09:29 -0500
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Diane,

 When my  husband  riped out  the fireplace and replaced it in our home.

We wanted black cement joints. we used the dyes for in grout when
tiling. 
Also used white sand instead of yellow helps make the colors more true.

I am also looking into stepping stone and mosaics. What books or other 
places have you been researching, I to would like more info. if it's out
there.


Karen
Altoona, PA


>
>Christie,
>
>I am a potter - also with an interest in the mosaics.  Did you use the
>Tiffany wrought iron table with your tabletop, or make your own?  The
>book
>recommends using fiberglass reinforced concrete, but I know someone
>that uses
>hydrocal ( which is not waterproof ). What do you find the best
>material to
>pour into the mold for a tabletop? Is a certain brand of glass that is
>better
>to use for nice color and/or weather resistance? Have you used anything
>to
>color the cement?
>
>There was a discussion in the AOL boards on what to charge for the
>stones.
> The stones seemed to be going for $75.00 - $200.00.  No discussion on
>the
>tables - of course, the price of the base table has to be considered. 
>If not
>bought wholesale, they can run $42.00 on up.  Do you have a ball park
>figure
>for the finished tables?  Since you are in a gallery, you might be able
>to
>ask more.  I plan to sell the tables and possibly some stones in my
>booth
>with my pottery at fine art and fine craft shows.
>
>I am really excited in adding another area in my artwork.  I have
>always been
>interested in mosaics and when I saw the stones in a bird and garden
>store, I
>fell in love with the look. I have spent this month researching and am
>ready
>to get started!  I would appreciate any tips you might have on making
>the
>mosaics.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Diane Zubrick
>Applecreek Pottery
>Centerville, Ohio
>
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 04:44:02 1997
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From: "Richard Stoker" <rstoker@nortel.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re:Kokomo glass
Date: 31 Jan 1997 07:22 EST
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We bought some glass at the Kokomo factory last summer.  They have a 
store which sells all kinds of stained glass supplies as well.  They 
will sell any of their regular glass and have a "seconds" or "scrap" 
section of discount-priced glass.  I feel like I got some good buys, but 
you have to take what they have at that particular moment in the 
discount bins. 
Richard


>Does anyone know if you can go to the Kokomo glass factory in Kokomo, 
Indiana
>and still buy stained glass?  I have a friend that went there in the 
80's to
>buy scrap glass.  I sent an e-mail to Kokomo, but got no response.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Diane


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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 05:03:27 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:Redware1@aol.com" <Redware1@aol.com>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: 31 Jan 97 08:01:35 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.13135.0>
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Diane Zubrick asked:
<Did you use the Tiffany wrought iron table with your tabletop, or make your
own?>

I made the entire table using "recycled" materials (i.e. some I picked out of
other people's trash!).  Let's see...the table stand (a three-legged solid wood
piece with a small flat wooden top) was salvaged from a neighbor's trash.  As to
the table top, it is an oval piece of bathroom countertop which was cut out of
the countertop to allow for the drop-in sink.  I painted the top white, then
glued the stained glass pieces directly onto it using GE Silicone glue (clear).
After that I grouted everything with white bathroom tile grout.  Then I
measured, drilled and screwed the wooden stand to the bottom of the oval top.
Voila!  Table!

I would like to do more tables using wrought iron frames, and am awaiting
product information packets from two manufacturers (craftsmen in wrought iron) I
am considering.

<The book recommends using fiberglass reinforced concrete, but I know someone
that uses hydrocal ( which is not waterproof ). What do you find the best
material to pour into the mold for a tabletop? Is a certain brand of glass that
is better to use for nice color and/or weather resistance? Have you used
anything to color the cement?>

I've never "poured a mold" for either a tabletop or one of the stepping stones.
I just purchased the large oval and 8" square molds, but have not yet tried it.
Guess I better get hoppin' since I am scheduled to teach a workshop on stained
glass mosaics in March.  I am going to try the fiberglass reinforced concrete,
as many others have had good success with that method.

As to certain brands of glass...I like to use cathedral or streaky, but will use
just about anything left over.  However, purple cathedral does not do well.  It
looks like black no matter what I try.  So I try to stick with opaques for the
darker colors.

Color the cement...why not just mix some latex paint into the cement mix?

As to pricing, my table is going for $270.  Price was based on hours to complete
the work.  Most of the hand-painted furniture in this gallery is also in the
$100 - $375 range.  I don't have a clue for prices for the stepping stones.

Tips:  Stained glass is SHARP even when grouted in.  Lightly run your hands over
the finished product, and if you detect any little sharp bits sticking out, use
a diamond hand file to take off the edges.  Also, if you are doing mosaic work
like I do, where the stained glass is first applied and then you grout (rather
than putting stained glass in a mold and then pouring the concrete), apply the
grout with a brush.  Do not, do not, do not use your hands, as the glass will
slice and dice them (voice of experience here).

Have fun!  Let us know how you do.
...Christie

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 05:03:54 1997
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From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <104344.622@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:kmccullo@direct.ca" <kmccullo@direct.ca>,
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: 31 Jan 97 08:01:39 EST
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.13139.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Karin asked:
<What do you use as a grout ?>

Hi there Karin.  The techniques of stained glass and tile mosaics are the same.
I use regular bathroom tile grout that you can purchase in any home improvement
center.  I prefer the non-sanded version in white.  I have used the sanded grout
for plant pots, since it is more 'outdoorsy' than the fine, finished look of the
non-sanded grout.  Don't be fooled by the so called "special grout for stained
glass".  Just pick up a box or bag of grout powder from the home improvement
store.  Don't use the grout that is already mixed, as it dries out in the
container and you waste a bunch of grout.  If you purchase the powdered grout,
you just mix up a lot for what you need.  If you stick with white you can then
add color to the mix to change up the grout color.

Have fun!....Christie

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 06:30:50 1997
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From: <maruca@netaxs.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:30:20 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.43020.0>
References: <<1997Jan31.13139.0>>
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On 31 Jan 1997, Christie:




> If you stick with white you can then
> add color to the mix to change up the grout color.
> 
> Have fun!....Christie
>

What are you using to color your grout, Christie?

M

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 06:37:46 1997
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From: Redware1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:37:30 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.43730.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
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Karen,

There are books out on the stepping stones and tables.  They are available
from local dealers and stained glass mail order suppliers.  These books have
the poured mold method. Not a whole lot of information, but patterns and
examples to get you interested. 

There are 2 books I know of on mosaics that will take you a step beyond what
the other books offer.   "The Mosaic Book", has beautiful examples of mosaic
with stone, ceramic and glass.  This book mainly does mosaics with smaller
pieces of materials, but covers many areas of mosaic from bathrooms to
garden. It has history and specific projects. 

I heard that Vicky Payne also now has a video,kit and products out on
mosaics.  Another company has a "PAC" method.  These both are "glue the glass
on a form method", rather than setting the glass in a mold and pouring cement
over all. There is also another video out on mosaics offered in the Delphi
catalog by Penny Holmes.

Many glass places are offering classes on the stepping stones.  If you are a
member of AOL, there is information on the stained glass boards on stepping
stones and mosaics.

Have fun!

Diane



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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 06:41:52 1997
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From: Redware1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: mosaics
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:41:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.44140.0>
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com
Precedence: bulk

Christie,

Thanks for the information!  Where did you get a large oval mold?  I have not
seen this shape.

Diane
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 06:43:48 1997
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From: Mike  Peck <summit-stained-glass@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Kokomo glass
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:40:43 +0000
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.144043.0>
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Yes, you can buy glass directly from the Kokomo factory.  If you have a
wholesale license, you can buy a minimum of 20 sheets, if not then you can
buy smaller quantites through their Op Shop.  Be sure to ask for the tour of
the factory ..... it's well worth the trip!

Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass




At 01:51 AM 1/31/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Does anyone know if you can go to the Kokomo glass factory in Kokomo, Indiana
>and still buy stained glass?  I have a friend that went there in the 80's to
>buy scrap glass.  I sent an e-mail to Kokomo, but got no response.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Diane
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>
Mike Peck
Summit Stained Glass

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 06:54:15 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Kokomo glass
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:48:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.44812.0>
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Redware1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know if you can go to the Kokomo glass factory in Kokomo, Indiana
> and still buy stained glass?  I have a friend that went there in the 80's to
> buy scrap glass.  I sent an e-mail to Kokomo, but got no response.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Diane
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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i guess you can always ask them...though it would be nice if you
could...http://www.kog.com/ here's their site.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 07:13:38 1997
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From: gshultz@mail.smu.edu (Gary Shultz)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:13:09 -0600
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Be advised that the page uses frames, which seems to slow load time and
easts up valuable screen space.

>Hey all you computer users!
>Check out Warner-Crivellaro's web site. I know you will be pleased!
>You will be able to take advantage of different sales that will always
>be changing. Get all the technical tips you need, visit the glass
>warehouse and look at actual glass scans and much much more! See for
>yourself. You will find us at www.warner-criv.com.
>----
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      ~(~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)~
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  ~~~~~( Tele. 214-768-7665   Fax: 214-768-7663 )~~~~~
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 08:37:53 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaics
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:38:06 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970131113722.00676108@pop.bridge.net>
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At 09:37 AM 1/31/97 -0500, Diane wrote:
<snip> There are 2 books I know of on mosaics that will take you a step
beyond what the other books offer.   "The Mosaic Book", <snip>

This was the book that piqued my interest in mosaics ... it's by Peggy
Vance and Celia Goodrick-Clarke and published in the UK by Trafalgar
Square, but readily available in the US. What pleases me most about it, is
that many methods and media are presented step by step, so one gets an
overview of methods, and different problems/solutions. 

My only *complaint* is that the suppliers listed are, naturally, all across
the pond, and hence, not very convenient to me. ;0 But I am finding plenty
of resources nearby, little by little.

MJ
 
>has beautiful examples of mosaic with stone, ceramic and glass.  This book
mainly does mosaics with smaller
>pieces of materials, but covers many areas of mosaic from bathrooms to
>garden. It has history and specific projects. 
>
>I heard that Vicky Payne also now has a video,kit and products out on
>mosaics.  Another company has a "PAC" method.  These both are "glue the glass
>on a form method", rather than setting the glass in a mold and pouring cement
>over all. There is also another video out on mosaics offered in the Delphi
>catalog by Penny Holmes.
>
>Many glass places are offering classes on the stepping stones.  If you are a
>member of AOL, there is information on the stained glass boards on stepping
>stones and mosaics.
>
>Have fun!
>
>Diane
>
>
>
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>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 09:43:02 1997
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From: Redware1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mosaic cutter
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:42:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.74223.0>
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On this subject of mosaics, has anyone tried the mosaic glass cutter? It has
2 cutting wheels and is supposed to "easily nip glass into geometric shapes".
It seems easier than ordering the Italian glass smalti which I last heard was
available from one person in the U.S.

Diane
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 09:51:33 1997
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From: Redware1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:51:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.75112.0>
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I also had trouble at this new glass site.  The frames were annoying! When I
looked at the specials for Feb. the information was not all within the frame.
 I had to scroll left and right to read all the specials.  I thought by
printing it out that I would be able to read it better.  Even when it was
printed, some sections were cut off. Many sites have adjustable frames or a
"no frame" option to solve this problem.

Diane
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 11:37:59 1997
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From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: patinas
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:37:20 -0500
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Before the days of commercially available patinas, we used photographers'
silver nitrate (discarded developing fluid) for black patina. Still use copper
sulphate crystals from the plumbing department of the hardware store.  Just
layer crystals in the bottom of a small jar, add enough warm water to cover and
let stand a few minutes.  The darker the liquid the more coppery the patina.

Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 12:18:11 1997
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mike's Web Page
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:17:38 -0500 (EST)
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<< Hey Mike.  A whilte back you said you had never found your page when
 surfing.  I was surfing today and found it.  I was in Yahoo >>

Hey Mike 2,

There is a way to "register" your page with various search engines.
I'm not sure how the process process works.  You may want to 
E-mail the big search sites to find out.

There are a couple of services out there that will do it for you for
about $30.

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 13:57:32 1997
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mike's Web Page
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@computer.net>
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:02:52 +0000
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> 
> Hey Mike 2,
> 
> There is a way to "register" your page with various search engines.
> There are a couple of services out there that will do it for you for
> about $30.

You can do it yourself for free at http://www.addme.com/

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists
A 501(c)(6) nonprofit organization
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 14:32:32 1997
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@mars.superlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mike's Web Page
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:25:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.122545.0>
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JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> 
> << Hey Mike.  A whilte back you said you had never found your page when
>  surfing.  I was surfing today and found it.  I was in Yahoo >>
> 
> Hey Mike 2,
> 
> There is a way to "register" your page with various search engines.
> I'm not sure how the process process works.  You may want to
> E-mail the big search sites to find out.
> 
> There are a couple of services out there that will do it for you for
> about $30.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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oh thats ok, i've registered in many. and acually so you know, there are
many services that will do it for free.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141

New Pages Added:

 - More Tips and Techniques
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 - My Adventures of Mold Making
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 20:39:25 1997
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From: Harold De Vos <hdevos@win.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:18:02 -0600
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.14182.0>
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RE: Warner Crivellaro web page
That has got to be the most confusing / worst looking page on the web! Yet, 
there is one thing I found very pleasing! Finally someone has tried to 
reproduce actual pictures of glass for those of us who have to mail order 
everything because of location.  I don't know how accurate these will be, 
but I have been looking for something like this for years! >> some 
indication besides those nondescript words like wispy amber which can be 
anything from a yellowish white to almost a chocolate brown and no 
indication as to density! I suggested this one time on a bulletin board, but 
three mail order companies said there was no way to reproduce the colors 
well enough,  either in print or via a graphic file. One fella tried to 
start a library of glass on a bulletin board on Compuserve, but after 
downloading his photos which took nearly a half hour, all I found were 
pictures of simple clear glass in simple primary colors!  I mean, why 
bother? That was almost 2 years ago tho', perhaps it has mushroomed into 
something better. Has anybody seen such a library out there?
Harold De Vos
Redware1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I also had trouble at this new glass site.  The frames were annoying! When I
> looked at the specials for Feb. the information was not all within the frame.
>  I had to scroll left and right to read all the specials.  I thought by
> printing it out that I would be able to read it better.  Even when it was
> printed, some sections were cut off. Many sites have adjustable frames or a
> "no frame" option to solve this problem.
> 
> Diane
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 22:17:17 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Help on Mosaics web site, please
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 01:18:42 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970201011827.00682d74@pop.bridge.net>
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Just a few days ago, I found a web site on a mosaic how-to on the indirect
method in which the face of the tessarae are applied to a clear contact
paper. Now the bookmark has disappeared. ;) If anyone knows of such a page,
please pass it along.

Thanks.

M.-J.

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 22:33:41 1997
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From: Phil Taylor <chip3@montana.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Flux and Removal on Large Window
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 22:53:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.155337.0>
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Hi, when I get ready to foil and solder my "Large Window" I am curious 
about the flux and soldering.  I've not done a large piece before (65" 
long by 19" high), and am not sure about a number of soldering issues.
	Do I tack the top side and then flip it to tack the reverse 
side?  Or, because of the size, should I do a first bead around the top 
side and then flip it over?
	How much flux should I use during soldering? (I use Glasflux 
liquid)
	How do I remove the flux?
	Would appreciate any help and comments.  Thanks, T. in Montana
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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 22:38:38 1997
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From: "M.-J." <athena@bridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Help on Mosaics web site, please
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 01:40:06 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970201014002.0068a2c0@pop.bridge.net>
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After posting this, I surfed to George Fishmans' tutorial on the indirect
method, found through:
http://users.aimnet.com:8000/~tcolson/pages/techinfo.htm
but I believe I saw another ???


At 01:18 AM 2/1/97 -0500, I wrote:
>Just a few days ago, I found a web site on a mosaic how-to on the indirect
>method in which the face of the tessarae are applied to a clear contact
>paper. Now the bookmark has disappeared. ;) If anyone knows of such a page,
>please pass it along.
>
>Thanks.
>
>M.-J.
>
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 23:13:29 1997
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From: Paul Deutsch <beermug@snowcrest.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 23:12:49 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <199702010712.XAA01702@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>
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Try    http://www.spectrumglass.com/   They have great pictures of glass.

Sherry

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From owner-glass Fri Jan 31 23:33:27 1997
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: new glass site with photos of glass
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 02:29:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1997Jan31.21299.0>
References: <<199702010712.XAA01702@mtshasta.snowcrest.net>>
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Totally awesome site-WOW
Gives me reason to DL some of Netscapes Plug-In's
BTW is anyone running the 3D VR software?????
Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

>Paul Deutsch wrote:
> 
> Try    http://www.spectrumglass.com/   They have great pictures of glass.
> 
> Sherry
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